Reinventing Vinyl: Sustainable Records with Good Neighbor Music Co-Founder Tim Anderson

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Tim, thank you for having me here in LA in your studio, which is an amazing place.
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Glad to host.
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Glad to have you here.
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Wish our audience could see uh this this environment is a really cool place uh where we are in.
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I'm very happy we met a couple of months ago when our common friend Dan Fishman invited you to the event that was hosting in Bel Air.
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Um Ballet Climate Week.
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Yeah, that was a great event and a great pitch.
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Oh, thanks.
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And uh my first, by the way.
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Oh, your first, really?
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In front of a group.
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Yeah, we were a hundred people.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I was nervous.
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Oh, really?
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Okay, no, you were really good, and everybody was excited because one doesn't come across too many climate or impact startups in the entertainment industry.
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Right.
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So and we're in LA, so um it's really cool, and I think that's awesome.
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Why you get a lot of attention, and uh, I really enjoy our conversation since then.
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Yeah, me too.
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Happy to record one of them today.
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Um, so why don't you share a bit about yourself and what you do?
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Yeah, so um that was great too, and thanks for having me on the pod.
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That green music night, I think, right, was the event was really cool.
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And what it reminded me of is um I've always wanted to know more about this space.
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So I'll start at the beginning.
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I just my whole background is music related.
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So I was in bands when I was a teenager.
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And then I moved to LA.
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Um I went to college for two years to major in jazz studies, which turned out to be too hard for me.
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Um and I was precocious and wanted to just start my life in music.
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So I dropped out and moved to Los Angeles, briefly back home to the San Francisco area where I was a DJ in nightclubs and surrounded by records, so it turns out.
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Right.
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Um, and just loved music.
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And I was one of these people I guess you call no plan B.
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Like I hear about this when someone brings me an artist to mentor or to talk to.
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Uh, they don't have a backup plan.
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I never had a backup plan.
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It was my me and my guitar versus the world.
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So, anyways, I moved to Los Angeles at the age of 21, continue school, but in an unorthodox way.
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I got a degree in music engineering at Musicians Institute.
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This was pretty cool.
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It was a night school, so it was from 6 p.m.
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to about 4 a.m., where we would, uh there was a day class I couldn't get into.
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So I credit this as like the most amazing experience.
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This is a quite a long time ago now, about 26, 27 years ago.
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Um, but I was fascinated by how music was made, the recording.
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And I needed an excuse for my parents to okay me moving to Hollywood.
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Right.
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Uh they said, you know, you have to finish some kind of schooling.
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So I thought, what could I do?
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And I found Musicians Institute.
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And the internet wasn't really what it is now, so finding that was challenging.
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But uh, in this time that I was there, I got a sort of an amazing education in the past of recording.
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So record recording used to be all physical, tape machines, large format gear, consoles, uh, some of which you know you see little versions of in my studio.
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Uh, and it was the dawn of all digital really taking hold.
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And so I got to learn, I got to see both, which I think is important because we're now seeing um all these things that conflict in a sense of the old and the new, physical things that we like, knowing AI is coming to change everything.
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We live inside of looking at our cell phones and our computers.
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We still want to hang out with people, hold something physical, something that usually everyone has something that matters to them.
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So, anyways, looking back, I could see that now.
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So I went to that school, then I started a band, got a record deal, started touring the globe in my band, I'm a Robot, which was not a very successful band commercially.
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But we had some, we had some really cool cult-like fan base and fascination.
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And it was another great education.
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It was a great learning by failing in a sense.
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The band wasn't very successful, but I started to see more things I was interested in.
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The business people at the record label, the marketing people, the promotions people.
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What does she do?
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What does he do?
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Where's the person from last month?
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Oh, they got moved away.
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This person got fired.
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Just sort of understanding the entertainment business, which is very, I think, very interesting and unique.
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Um great way to look at it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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From the point of view of a band member uh in the industry.
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I was not un, it wasn't uncommon, but I was definitely one of the guys in the band who wanted to know everything.
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I wanted to understand.
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Wait, what?
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And this is uh, mind you, this is pre-Spotify.
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So when my band was signed, another technological kind of like uh chronological moment is Napster had just launched.
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And so music went from an asset that was starting to be um sort of completely changed, the, you know, from vinyl to CDs and tapes, all physical for a long time.
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Along came the iTunes store, and we were all downloading albums onto an iPod or sharing them with each other, you know, and then the pirating all of a sudden unlocks Pirates Bay and this kind of amazing technological breaking open of Pandora's box.
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And then in its wake, somebody, you know, Spotify figures out how to make it, you know, monetized.
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And in the beginning, that did not look like a solution, I don't think, to the music industry.
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They were praying that CDs would stay and the iTunes Store would stay, and they were, you know, kind of fat cats living off this pretty profitable way, trying to ignore streaming, what we now call.
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I remember the first time I heard the word streaming.
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Um, so trying not to jump around too much.
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I go from music school, being in a band.
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Band is moderately successful, but I learn a lot.
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And then I immediately identify that the greatest joy I got was similar to the music schooling I did in LA, being in the studio where we are now.
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I loved this, the gear and the making of it and the behind the scenes.
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And when we made our first album with Josh Abraham, who I credit to really helping me, when my band started to uh kind of end its course, I went to him and I asked him, Can you basically teach me how to produce records?
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And I want to be in the studio.
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So I then started a career in the studio that again, I I credit luck, but you do have to be in the right place at the right time and be willing to work 23 hours a day and all that.
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So I did that.
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He Josh gave me a studio to let me use, and I started working on projects like Solange and Dead Man's Bones, and then it led to me meeting a very young Billie Eilish and Phineas and doing a song with them, discovering the artist Banks along with her ex-manager, working with artists like Halsey and 21 Pilots.
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So I had some success, but it was it was all over a period where the music industry was still so um, it was shifting so much in the early streaming days that it was, it felt like it was going to be blue-collar forever, that you just did this work and there would be no money, most likely, you know, from streaming.
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Um, the last part of the journey is where good neighbor kind of starts to come into focus is after about my late 20s, all of my early 30s, um, working as a producer and songwriter and starting to have definitely what you would view as success, but I just couldn't tell.
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I really needed a job because my wife was pregnant with our second daughter.
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I was starting to panic about health insurance and things like that.
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Right.
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And along came a job after I had asked.
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And I this is advice I would give to people if you need something or want something or are driven to do something, you have to like speak it to the world.
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That could mean me texting you, hey, I'm wanting to learn about what you do.
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At the time, I wanted some sort of more uh traditional job to be able to get insurance, and it ended up being Capitol Records was launching a sub-brand called Harvest Records that was a relaunch of an old label they owned, Harv Harvest, that had some of my favorite records ever.
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Uh, they they had Pink Floyd in the early days, and then a bunch of really, really interesting bands finalizing in the late 70s, early 80s with Wire, my favorite, uh, one of my favorite bands of all time, that I have a tattoo of their first album, Pink Flag, on my arm.
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So when I saw this connection, felt like the universe speaking in tongues, and I accepted this job as um AR and staff producer for Harvest Records and Capital Records.
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And that was really great because there's some part of me that would see that as too corporate or selling out or anything, but I always just craved knowledge of what how do you make money here?
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What is this industry?
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Um, when I started there, we weren't allowed to have Spotify on our work computers still.
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It was brand new, it was in beta.
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A friend of mine was helping on-bourne onboard artists, Trevor McFedries, who later went on to found Breud and started Little Michaela and all these just kind of amazing innovations.
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But he was working at Spotify early days, and that was the first time I ever heard of it.
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And he told me, Oh, I'm working in Spotify getting artists to use it in the US.
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And uh, I don't know, maybe even people were probably skeptical because it was so new.
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So 2012, 2013, somewhere in there.
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And the other thing we start seeing, and I always thought this was so fascinating, is vinyl records begin their 19 years to date of sales increase, right around that same time that all these digital innovations happen.
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So Spotify launches, file sharing has been happening, iPhones are now everywhere.
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And at the same time, you start to see the increase of, I think, baseball cards too, and Pokemon cards and records and probably other things.
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So physical things that we like and that hold some sort of um personal, emotional value, they start growing alongside all these all this tech.
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And I always thought it was kind of interesting, but a little bit um hard to prove, but you can just sort of look at the numbers of as an iPhone, as the iPhone starts to really grow and everyone starts to sort of have one, so do these other products.
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And so I started to take note, and one of the first bands we signed at Capital at Harvest was called Death Grips.
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And the anecdote I tell is that they were they started selling more vinyl than I think we were used to with other artists.
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At that time, you would have to be the biggest artists on a label or probably fiercely independent for vinyl to play a role in your business.
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Everything in the middle, it was too expensive, it's costly to make.
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That whole uh supply chain is worn down because vinyl had the sales had dropped off of a cliff in the early 2000s.
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Um, and I don't think anyone predicted it would come back to where it is now, where it just keeps kind of growing.
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Obviously, we're not talking about you know the scale of certain other things like AI or something, but vinyl has just grown consistently every year for 19 years.
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Aaron Ross Powell Where is um vinyl, just from a pure business point of view, compared to a CD?
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It has surpassed CDs now, starting about three years ago, I believe, is when it first crossed so CDs are have have been declining, vinyl increasing.
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Because there's also not this emotional attachment, right?
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Like vinyl is something very romantic in a way.
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Aaron Powell Yeah, CDs I actually do not understand the uh the application now.
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People still release CDs with their release.
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Any big artist is putting out a bunch of CDs as well.
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I CDs they sound really good because they're like a really big file, a wave file.
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So they sound better than streaming, but I don't understand it because it is just all plastic.
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And you know, vinyl has this big liner notes and you can read it, and when you hold it, it feels substantial.
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And putting it on is like a sort of like a ritual.
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Right.
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Um, that doesn't have to be for everyone.
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But yeah, I don't really understand the CD thing, except any physical thing that has had some value has is staying around in this age where we would have predicted, oh, we will all live in meta glasses.
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You know, five years ago, it's probably like, oh wow, crap, the metaverse is coming.
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Um we won't need anything.
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We hope not.
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And I think our humanity fights back, and we don't, we did not go that way, even though a whole company rebranded itself, meta.
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We are not all living in those goggles.
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Yeah.
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But someday maybe.
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Um, yeah, I think there's a lot going on.
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There's psychology of wanting things.
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As you can see, I have these little collectible things at my studio that bring me good luck, and I really like records.
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But yeah, so we start to see them selling again in about 2012, 2013.
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And I filed that away, I think, in my mind, not thinking right then, oh, somebody should make these more uh climate friendly or less, you know, better for the planet, find a new way.
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I had no idea what vinyl records even were or how they were made.
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But I start to find that out because one thing you would know working at a record label in that time is you're trying to coordinate a large release for an artist.
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A lot of things are on the line, a lot of pressure to the day the album comes out, sell as many things on that day as possible.
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Vinyl records CDs and all the streams, and they're gonna add up over that first week, and you could be number one.
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Or, you know, not every artist does this, but most artists have a window at the exciting moment of release to sell a lot of things.
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So vinyl had to be ready on what they call day and date, and streaming now has come along, and you and I could make a song right now after the podcast and upload it to a streaming service and have it on Spotify in two days, maybe even tonight, if we had some friends there.
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Yeah.
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Um I'm the CEO of Spotify.
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Right.
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So you could call him and say, Oh, Tim and I have this great song, and we need to get it up now.
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You would do more like four weeks to do all the marketing.
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Right.
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But with vinyl, there is no way around that you are manufacturing it.
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And for a long time, mostly in Germany or Eastern Europe, Czechoslovakia, and you need to get it collated from there and sent out to get into packaging and in shipping crates and get them to all these stores and get them where they need to be for that to hit that time.
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And what we were noticing in those years was the lead times would easily commonly be six months to get that product where it needs to be.
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And it has shortened, but that's what led me to starting to dream about getting involved was I met some people, Dan Fishman and a couple other people, that I told this idea to.
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And the reason why I thought making this product differently could be a good business concept is that this is my own analysis, but I I believed that all the challenges with vinyl, that a lot of them uh were tied to the fact that a supply chain with a known uh toxic plastic in it is not future-proofed.
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Like if we started a business together today, you and I, and we were using the base thing, the whole thing had to do with polyvinyl chloride and then some additives that are also a little bit challenging, we just wouldn't do it because you would know this is hard to move around, there's permits to make it.
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And I'm not demonizing the vinyl industry.
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I want to always make that clear because I still I love records and I buy records, not only good neighbor records, but I just um I just thought it was a hell of an idea to say, all these artists who care about the planet, this is not a perfect product for the planet, like vinyl records.
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It's just not.
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And now when they increased to something like 200 or 250 million of them sold last year, all wrapped in shrink wrap and shipped around, it's just hard to not look at and say there's there's a lot, there's there's things we could do better.
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Um, so that's where the idea came from.
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Was I thought these artists just want I talk to artists now all the time that we work with.
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All they want to do is get the music out as quickly as possible.
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Not for the charting or the number one.
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They have an idea, and shout out to a new good friend, Kenny Beats, who was translating this to me in a really good way.
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They're in the studio capturing a moment in time.
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The idea of that moment being heard by their fans six months later or a year later is terrifying because the world changes.
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They're talking about something timely.
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It doesn't have to be political or anything.
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It's just like they're using specific verbiage that is of this now.
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Right.
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So the idea of, okay, we're gonna finish the record, then we're gonna make the artwork, then we're gonna order some vinyl, and in six to nine months to a year or something, you know, it's not that long anymore.
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But to them, that's like they come to me.
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Can we make it faster?
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Can we please get this quicker?
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And another thing that our technology does is it allows for that at scale.
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We can be way faster because injection molding is a just a more efficient way to manufacture.
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Um, so, anyways, all these things came together in about 2019 where I thought, hmm, everyone's told me this is a terrible idea.
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You can't make vinyl any other way.
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I got a hundred no's at least.
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And then I thought, ooh, I think that equals a yeah.
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I think that's like I think when no one's doing it, but the the whole idea of uh looking away from it, when you have artists like Billie Eilish who are able to just speak their mind and say, why are we putting all this excess plastic out there when there's got to be another way?
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Um and the vinyl industry had has taken a bunch of steps.
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They're they're definitely conscious of this, they're not ignoring it.
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And I think companies like G Z especially, they try, they hire sustainability experts, they do life cycle reports.
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But my fear about their model is they are sort of trapped with this material that I think is just problematic.
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Like PVC is um, it's a tough material.
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It has endocrine disruptors and carcinogenic qualities.
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Of course, it's when you heat it up, but somebody's got to be around it for that, usually in a third-world country where they're pelletizing it.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:19.359
Or so it's a lot of things nobody wants to talk about, but we don't really mind because I don't make that product.
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.680
Uh, I'm not making PVC records.
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.240
Oh, and here's my eco-friendly PVC record.
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:28.640
I don't have to be beholden to what you would say to make that work.
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:44.240
Um, we're doing it completely differently, and we stand by it, we just think it's better, and we will grow as much as we can to um introduce this product to lower the carbon footprint, just every record over and over and over, just keep lowering it, keep growing.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:46.799
So, how did you come up with that new technology?
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:49.039
So I actually did not.
00:19:49.519 --> 00:20:03.519
The Dutch group that we partnered with, Green Vinyl Records, who are incredible innovators in the Netherlands, um, Harm Tunnes and Pierre Van Dongen, uh, they'll probably yell at me for the pronunciation.
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:12.240
Um, they had been working for about a decade when I found when I met with them in 2021, I think.
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:26.640
Um they had been experts in CD replication as well as helping put together CD manufacturing machinery and repairing CD lines for Phillips and JVC and all the giants of that era.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:36.079
And now you're dealing with a uh um CD, DVD, laserdisc world that is on the decline, but you have these people with this like incredible know-how.
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:52.240
So they others have tried this too, I know RCA in the 80s, but um, they had a real gung ho attitude of we will take our um understanding of injection molding and we will apply it to records.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:21:01.119
And I think that there was some pressure to not use PVC, but I'll get I'll have to get a quote from them exactly of why they they went with PET.
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:19.359
Um, Europe has a little bit of a better track record than the US of trying to use non-toxic things and you know, lower impact things, but thank goodness they did because by creating an ARP, uh a PET record with injection molding, your carbon footprint just really drops.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:21.279
Um so they invented this.
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:26.960
I'm so proud to be their partner and hold them up, and I think we have a really great working relationship.
00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:35.759
And what Good Neighbor is as a sort of like front-facing wraparound to them is we bring the industry connections and the know-how.
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:49.200
When I met our Dutch counterpart, I knew they are brilliant innovators and experts at putting this machinery together and making incredible sounding records, better than a lot of other records.
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:54.000
They sound so good and they have this climate sort of like um bonus.
00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:20.240
But they weren't immersed in the world that me and my team were, which is who makes the Decisions, which artists would like this, who are the people at the independent record labels who are heads of production whose lives are so busy and they're always on call that would have the time and the energy to look and say, oh, I have artists like Massive Attack and some of the others we're working with who have been looking for something like this.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.279
Um, we knew where those people would be.
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:33.359
And so it became obvious that that we could create a great partnership where we take harm's invention and really like elevate it and grow it.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:38.880
And maybe the other American thing, which I don't know if it's a plus, but is to say we're gonna make this big.
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:41.759
But you know, I have no problem.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:55.599
It's it's such a fun business because when you start to calculate the carbon savings and you think every record I sell, every record we make, it lowers that impact and we're doing it this way, then I want to sell as many as possible.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:56.319
Of course.
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:01.839
Um and it doesn't need to be, oh, we have to justify wanting to be large.
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:08.880
Um, we have to be large because at scale, there's so many great savings with this technology.
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.160
It's new, so there's lots of costs to bringing it to market.
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:16.400
We've had to raise funds and put this together piece by piece.
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:31.200
But um, yeah, I think I caught myself all the way up to there because that was the last piece was meeting the Green Vinyl Records or GVR team in 2020, 2021 was where I knew I could go start putting the a company together.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:31.920
Right.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:40.319
And that you have this positive story about the impact because the alternative is not that the customer's not buying any vinyl records.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:40.480
Right.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:47.200
But the alternative is that they buy vinyl records and not your GVR records.
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:48.240
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:58.240
It doesn't even really I don't think we start to um cannibalize the main ecosystem because there's a certain type of person who wants this record.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:05.599
Those artists will make records with us, and we will be a very small percentage of the whole thing for probably quite a while.
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:09.039
And all of the vinyl manufacturers will follow suit.
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:13.440
They will make it more eco or try to replicate us or whatever.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:16.240
Like it's it's always been to me.
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:22.480
Um, I learned a lot of this from my CEO and co-founder, Rain O'Brien, who I met through Dan Fishman.
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:23.279
Oh, that's cool.
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:24.240
Um, really cool.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:31.920
When I when the idea first crystallized, I talked to my closest friend who knows everything about vinyl, Scotty Coates and Johnny O'Hara.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:37.680
They we were all working together at Universal Music and Capital Records and Virgin, these different companies.
00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:47.440
And I started with them and I said, if I did this, if I kind of left everything else behind and went headlong into this, am I crazy?
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:49.440
And both of them were like, no.
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.400
And we will, we would, we would do it with you.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:52.799
Wow.
00:24:52.960 --> 00:25:04.240
Um, so that was like, you know, when you ask somebody who's passionate and not conflicted and a real knowledge source and just somebody you trust, like that's like that was the best cosign I could get.
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.400
So then I went randomly.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:18.319
Uh a fun story is like I'm on an airplane with my family flying from New York to LA, and I've just decided uh to change my life and do this.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:20.160
And I've had some espresso.
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:23.200
And I'm sitting on the plane, and I'm like, it's like a beautiful mind.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.119
I'm drawing it out on a piece of paper.
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:29.680
And I see somebody walking towards me from first class, walking back towards us.
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:33.599
And it was a good friend of mine, Ashley, uh, Dan's wife.
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:35.599
And I'm like, oh my gosh, good to see you.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:36.640
And she's like, What are you doing?
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:40.720
And I'm like, Well, since you asked, I'm writing out a business plan.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:48.640
Uh, I'm gonna take vinyl records and completely rethink the way they're made and make it more eco-friendly and more sustainable and just better for the planet.
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:50.400
And we're gonna do it, it's gonna be amazing.
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.720
And sorry to tell you all, you know, sorry, Ashley.
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.039
And she's like, Oh, talk to Dan, my husband.
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.640
He'll love, you know, this is his whole thing.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:58.000
And I was like, Oh, who's Dan?
00:25:58.079 --> 00:25:58.960
You know, I didn't know.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:01.359
Oh, you need you knew Ashley before.
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:04.480
I've known Ashley for a long time because we had some mutual friends in LA.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:06.720
A friend of mine, Darren Romanelli, who's the best.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:11.200
And so Ashley and I kind of knew each other a little bit for 20 years, and then maybe I'd met Dan.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.160
And she works also in in the entertainment industry, right?
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:15.200
And very successfully.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:16.720
So yeah, she's a boss.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:17.200
Yeah.
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:18.240
Uh, she's the best.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:23.440
And Dan I had met because our kids went to school together, but I didn't know anything about his work.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:24.000
Right.
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:29.039
Because I try to not make that the first question too when you're at like a kid's event or something.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:35.920
But he was perfectly suited to give me like the right nudge, and I credit him too, because he said this is a really good idea.
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:37.920
But you've got to get through.
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:43.599
You I need you to be, you need you to talk to Raina Bryan, who vets this kind of incoming deal for for regeneration.
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:44.880
For regeneration to see.
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:45.359
Yeah.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:51.920
She was um helping at the time as an advisor and vetting team and technology.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.359
So she, and I had no team and no technology.
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:59.119
But I got on the phone with her, and hopefully I'll get this right so she's not upset.
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:00.400
But we've told this story many times.
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:08.960
So basically, you know, I'm pitching her this idea, and her first reaction was, Well, that's really pretty cool, but you know, who would buy them?
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:10.799
No one buys vinyl records.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:14.640
I was like, actually, the data shows, you know, it's increasing this much.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:19.599
At that time, it was probably 150 million records a year, and it just keeps increasing.
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:22.559
Uh, it was probably like a$1.5 billion thing.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.680
So not tiny, but not nothing.
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:28.559
Um, uh, not huge.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:42.000
I mean, so, anyways, um, subsequent calls, we kind of got to the to the conclusion that she was actually heading to Amsterdam to speak, maybe with Dan or with some other people at a circular economy summit.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:46.240
And I said, Well, what if you visited this company?
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:52.319
It's an hour and a half by train, and I think we both were fascinated by what this could be.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.480
And she was doing what she does best.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:58.799
She was poking holes in it and making sure that this was investable.
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:06.079
You know, she was looking for ways to verify that this is something interesting besides being a cool story of records.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.240
And so she said to me, Okay, you know what?
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.559
I am going, I'm speaking at this uh summit.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.880
I will go see it, but no promises.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:18.079
And we spoke after, and she saw something she really liked, and it was what we are doing now.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:36.559
She saw that they had, you know, made a step change in this technology, a different moved away from a toxic family of polymers to a non-toxic family from PVC to PET, and switched from the incumbent way of making records, which is a uh hydraulic press.
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:44.880
And the hydraulic press is great and it's been around for a very long time, but it does require a lot of energy.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:52.160
Uh, usually a natural gas-powered steam boiler to create the pressure, to press these pucks of PVC with the label.
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:58.400
And so by switching to injection molding, it's a larger machine, it's a larger asset, has a bigger floor plan.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:04.400
So there are some things that we need to get out of startup mode to really justify the switch.
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.720
But right away, no net, no natural gas, just electricity.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.640
The energy is cut by a lot significantly.
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:21.920
So she really liked it, spoke to me about potentially coming on board, and I just said, Would you consider being my co-founder and doing this together?
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.319
And I think she foolishly uh said yes.
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:32.960
But after, you know, making some considerations with her family and thinking about it, and I'm grateful that she did.
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:44.720
It's been an amazing journey, and we we really complete the two halves of the leadership team in a great way where I see mostly optimism and I'm a risk taker and I want to push this thing through.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:48.319
She's able to make sure all the ducks are in the line.
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:57.599
We're prepared for due diligence, you know, all these things that um that have come up, we've been prepared for or able to take on uh because of her experiences.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:07.839
Um so yeah, so that the technology was developed out of the Netherlands, and our journey and and idea was to take it like to the glow to the world.
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:14.000
So can I imagine an PET bottle becomes one of your records?
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:14.799
Yeah.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:23.599
So the my favorite part about the technology is that by switching to PET, we are easily able to use our pet.
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:29.680
So recycled PET, which you can think of as recycled water bottles.
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:36.640
It's also, I think most of the plastic we come across is usually some sort of PET or PP.
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.759
But PET is great because it's highly recyclable.
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.519
It's recyclability number one triangle with a one.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:48.240
Um so the PET thing is great, but it wasn't good enough for us.
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:52.559
What the dream is, is to pivot as much as we can into our pet.
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:56.720
Um, we're doing that now for a couple clients, and the records are incredible.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:05.680
And to me, that is the elevator pitch, the stunning kind of consequence of the whole thing is that we can turn this into this.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:08.400
We can take that material and make records.
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:15.279
Um, which I don't want to answer ask your question for you, but I think it gets into like what we think is important about it.
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:26.720
Even at small scale, um, inspiring ideas that could make sustainability relevant and quote unquote cool is what I think is such a challenge.
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:27.440
Right.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:44.319
Um, you know, because if you can make it compelling and fun and cool, then you can use huge channels like big celebrities, singers, whatever can say, Oh, I love this, and and this is why I love it, and it's easy to understand.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.400
You can recycle plastic bottles and make records, and here's the record I made.
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:55.279
And then, you know, there because I don't we don't have that kind of storytelling ability, but these other people do.
00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:01.119
The yeah, and maybe because now we are exactly at that point, right?
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.440
Like the artists are able to tell those stories.
00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:09.279
How did the music industry change in terms of who has the power?
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:09.759
Right.
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:18.400
Like, would have been this kind of transformation been possible 30 years ago, like pre-streaming, like how how did that shift?
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:21.920
I mean, I think the short answer is it was not possible.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:24.480
Um you have a couple issues.
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.640
You have like the education of the artists and their teams.
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:42.720
Probably 95% of them don't know how records are made, um, or or really have been led to care because that's just a part of something someone's doing for them and it's being made and it's being sold.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:51.680
And um I think artists or talent asking questions is probably annoying to the powers that be.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:01.200
And so they wouldn't have an ability pre Instagram and TikTok and all that to even see any of these things of like, oh, that's how that's made, huh?
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.799
Well, I prefer this.
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:13.440
And then having a voice to go to their record label, unless they were the biggest artists in the world, they probably couldn't tell the head of the department, oh, I want to work with that.
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:20.079
The label would probably say, and I'm sort of like over-dramatizing this, but I worked at a label.
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.240
You would say, Oh, no, we have that figured out.
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:22.960
Don't worry about that.
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:24.799
Like, all good, we handle that.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.319
And then you'll get paid.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.519
Even an artist voicing any of that is pretty rare.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:37.680
Um, so that's why it's important to educate the whole chain of command, the manager, the agent.
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.039
This stuff has to do with live because that's where a lot of waste is.
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:48.799
Um, everyone needs to kind of understand these things for them to even be able to decide, like, oh, I'd like to work with a good neighbor on this.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:50.880
But that started happening about a year ago.
00:33:51.119 --> 00:34:00.000
And um, James Blake was the first artist we worked with where he visited us here in the studio and had gone completely independent.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:12.480
He's a pretty good metaphor for somebody who had a large label and all the bells and whistles, and then decided to extricate themselves and say, no, no, no, I want to control, I want to know every single thing about this.
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:13.599
And it was really cool.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.840
And we are all big fans, so we were a little nervous.
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:28.000
But we sat here with our whole team and him and his uh kind of right-hand man label person um from Good Boy Records named John Zamora, who's incredible, and saw this coming and thought this would be a good meeting.
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:31.679
And we played him his own record, and we played him some other records.
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:35.119
Um, actually, I don't think we had test pressings of his record yet.
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.039
We were just meeting each other to decide.
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:42.800
We played him some records he knew, and he sat here and he listened and he and he liked it.
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:53.119
And it was a cool thing to see in per first hand the the artist deciding I'm gonna meet with each person, the person making my merch.
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:55.039
I want to know like what is going on.
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.000
I want to understand.
00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:58.000
Um, that's rare.
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:00.239
That would not have happened 30 years ago.
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:05.679
Um, and I'm sure if it had the record label would have said, like, you're good.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:07.920
Don't you don't need to know that.
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:11.119
So it is it what's the downside?
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:12.400
Is it more expensive?
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.280
You say the quality's the same, maybe even better.
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:16.719
So, like, what where's the downside?
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:26.000
The downside is everything in the beginning is so much a cost because you're innovating something new that people did not ask for.
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:31.360
The market was not saying, oh yeah, let's have more records differently made and compete with us.
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:31.920
Right.
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:44.239
Um, bringing this technology forward, we had to invest a lot of money to help the Dutch team grow and buy another machine and make sure the technology works, test it for an additional 18 months.
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:45.280
That's overhead.
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.480
We had to raise money for, begin selling.
00:35:48.639 --> 00:36:02.079
So at scale, right now we are comparable, but a tiny bit more expensive, maybe 9% per record, which isn't something that ever really washes out and uh turns a customer away.
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:09.280
But running the business is gonna be was more expensive for the first two years because it's a startup.
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:25.119
Um and so at scale, not only can we be cheaper, um, but we will save so much energy and and need less human uh manpower to use each machine that it all becomes less expensive.
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:28.559
And I think that's a decision we can decide to at that point.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:31.679
Like once we're at escape velocity, is that the right term?
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:35.920
Once we have that, where should our pricing fit?
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:41.199
Um, we'd like it to be affordable, but there's room for everyone to make money, you know.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:52.400
A lot of people try to sort of negotiate some of these things, but these independent artists are selling the records for a pretty good amount of money at their shows:$30,$40,$50.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:37:00.400
So we're conscious of what the pricing is and we want to get our price to the right place, but we can't undersell like a behemoth company.
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:00.960
Of course.
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:08.639
Um, so we'll probably be a tiny bit more expensive than the cheapest thing you would find for another three to four months.
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:15.119
Then our second machine comes online in the US and we will start to see some real savings.
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:24.000
But yeah, it's hard to answer because launching a startup, there's no way to avoid just the costs of that part, right?
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:28.719
Which we're eating and applying to the records in the beginning so we can keep the lights on.
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.960
But we've been selling throughout that whole period.
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:33.920
Our sales have been increasing the whole time, like really well.
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:48.800
So when I'm uh an artist or I want to work with you guys in five years from now, and you have that second machine in the US, you will be cheaper and faster than the traditional vinyl record.
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:49.679
Yeah.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:57.119
You know, it's hard to it's hard to s it's hard to say what they would do to to sort of like manage that.
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:01.599
But we've done the math, and so have I think some of our competitors.
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:09.519
And at scale, injection molding of PET um can be the same price or less, definitely.
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.960
Um but also it's really fast.
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:15.760
Injection molding, uh, these machines are just really quick.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:25.119
If you think of CDs, um uh as opposed to having to press down each record and sort of visually look at the center label, get stuck on correctly.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:29.440
We also print the center labels with this really, really great printing technology.
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:31.840
So there's no paper or glue on there.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:35.519
Um so the whole thing is made really quickly.
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:46.480
And, you know, I don't want to I don't want to make promises that aren't possible, but we just we all know as an industry and our own company what's coming as we grow.
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:55.519
We'll have two machines now, but by the time five years, we should have at least 10 to 20 machines if the demand for records keeps growing.
00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:07.440
And the whole reason for the business is we want to make money, we want to have a compelling business story, but we want to inspire all kinds of other product classes to do to look at it the same way.
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:07.920
Right.
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:12.000
And and we had great conversations about this uh already.
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:26.400
Um and I think back then I also asked you about the name Good Neighbor Music, yeah, which already implies for me some community and like something that is way bigger than one product.
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:26.719
Yeah.
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.159
And you now just mentioned that.
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:31.280
Like, what is your vision for good neighbor music?
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:49.519
I have some eye in the sky pipe dreams, but um, you know, first what we'll do is we will move right into the neighboring kind of elements, which is the paper around the record, the printed jacket, the shrink wrap, which I can't stand.
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:56.480
And so we've come up with some solutions that will look at branding our own reusable, recycled.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:03.760
Uh, we do this for a couple bands that are adamant about the the planetary sort of like elements, you know, of plastic things.
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:13.360
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, we always do a printed cardboard outer sleeve that I can show you, or a reusable, 100% recycled outer bag.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:31.280
So the natural next step for us is right now we make the discs and we outsource all the rest from people we've vetted as they can deliver on time, they're conscious of their products, they can deliver the most eco-friendly product possible and are just good at what they do.
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.320
If we can step into that area, we will.
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:39.840
There's having to look at the finances and the sort of like what makes the most sense.
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:46.880
But there are a bunch of things that naturally will come up for us that make sense as subsequent products.
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.039
And then merchandising and, you know, good neighbor will look good on a hoodie.
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:53.760
We have to be hyper-conscious of what how we make that.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:57.440
I'll be talking to you and all my friends, like, who does the best with this?
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:11.840
We have an investor kind of advisor named Craig Atkinson, who founded Reigning Champ, which is one of the great uh companies of our time making clothing for Supreme and all these great brands, um, some of the materials they use.
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:28.000
He's taught me a lot about um traceable cottons and and the way that that industry is sort of like trying to look at this, tackling it similar to what we're doing with this one product records, who's doing the best in all the other products that we could look at.
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:28.400
Right.
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:37.199
Because we can't just slap our name on something that is made somewhere here and then shipped way over there and has and I'm aware of how complex that is, right?
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:41.360
I am I mean I'm I'm involved in the entire value chain of the textile industry.
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:41.760
Right.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:51.599
So, and I had two footwear labels, and making a sustainable product is not necessarily good for the environment because it can still end up in landfill.
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:57.039
So you really have to, you know, mention uh traceable cotton and and organic cotton.
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.480
Um, that's one thing, but what happens at the end of life, right?
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:17.599
Um, and I'm even involved nowadays with with projects where one company owns everything from we collect textile waste here, mostly from Goodwill, right, and then ships it back to where it's being producing, mostly India.
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:23.280
But then the same company sorts it, recycles it, and makes new yarn out of it and new products out of it.
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:24.719
And so it's like a closed loop.
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:32.000
You told me about that, and I I told some friends, I I love that because I think these are hard, these are these are the challenges.
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:38.480
And when I went to your event, I heard some of the most compelling, brilliant pitches I've heard.
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:51.280
And I think what I feel the responsibility to do is start with a product that just is kind of eye-candy, that is uh, I think it travels further than it's like sales and business model.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:59.519
Um, because a lot of the great ideas I hear, they're harder to sort of convey in a way that everyone would be like, oh my gosh, amazing.
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:15.440
It's something, and and so you have to, I have to sort of believe in the power of music as this, as this uh kind of transportation device for sustainable-minded practices, and then look at where else that can go.
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:19.679
And I think we'll have to just be um nimble and be ready to pivot.
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:26.960
I think when you look at streaming, if you unfortunately look behind, I meant tr I met Trent at your event.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:27.440
Yeah.
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:31.519
And I got to watch his pitch, and I was immediately like, oh no.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.280
Um now I have to energy usage for streaming.
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.760
Now I have to look at that because there's no looking away.
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:43.840
But you don't have I don't think it's I think what's cool about Good Neighbor and the Records is this isn't doom and gloom.
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.960
We're we're we're peddling wares that are really fun.
00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:47.440
Yeah.
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:55.679
And we can pass along the benefits of doing this hard work, spending time and money and raising funds and getting backing.
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.440
We can give out, uh we can give a product to the end customer.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:07.440
And they can know all about all of the sustainable benefits, or they can just be happy with the product.
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:17.840
And that I think is an interesting story because if you wave the flag too much, it is uh you turn off like such a big portion of people.
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:24.159
If you're like this is green and the planet's dead, and you know, if you can't communicate in a negative way, right?
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:34.079
And and and a sustainable product still can only sell if it's the same price and if it's the same quality and the same coolness and design and image.
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.280
So you cannot lack any of those qualities.
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:42.320
Yeah, and those were the lessons we were taught by people like you and other friends early on.
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:46.239
And so we made sure, cool, we can match price basically with anyone.
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:48.719
Someone could undersell us, of course.
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:52.559
That's always gonna be something that could be cheaper, but not better for the price.
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:55.119
Like our records sound unbelievable.
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:57.519
And that was the biggest thing was people.
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:02.559
Uh Scotty and I who were first we were first looking at the idea.
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:11.760
We went to people that we trust as like the real audio, audiophiles, like audio nerds who we respect.
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:18.559
The president of Blue Note and some subsequent people they work with, a guy named the Tone Poet, Joe Harley.
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:23.039
We we wanted to talk to people who we thought if anyone was gonna have a problem with this, it would be them.
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:23.519
Right.
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:24.719
And none of them did.
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:27.519
They all thought these records sound awesome.
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:30.480
They sound really good, and I think this is cool.
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:37.440
And it was we were trying to just sort of make sure we we looked at the sound quality so in depth.
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:43.119
Uh, we did some blind A-B tests with friends, and no one could tell the difference.
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:45.840
And that was when we had the confidence to go forward.
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:46.079
Yeah.
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:50.639
Um, we knew that our price could be a little higher at the very beginning.
00:45:50.800 --> 00:46:01.599
Right now, it's basically the same as everyone else, and we can get cheaper than anyone as time goes by, as we have more lines, and but the audio is so critical.
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:05.280
Um, the price, of course, ever you know, we we were I was taught that early on.
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:06.559
Can't cost more.
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:07.920
Um, you can't do that.
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:09.119
So, anyways.
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:12.239
So we we we have like a bit less than 10 minutes left.
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:12.880
Great.
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.119
Um I have a couple of questions.
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:24.400
I mean I'm sure there will be a second episode because I think it's really cool what we are talking about and all the conversation that we had off record um the last time we met.
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:27.440
But maybe almost rapid fire questions.
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.559
Like I have just a couple of them, but I would love your input.
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:38.239
Um number one, you mentioned regeneration VC and your co-founder helping them back then with the due diligence.
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:39.760
Did they end up investing?
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:40.880
They didn't.
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.679
Um I think that was too early for us.
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:45.840
I had an idea, but no structure.
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.880
Yeah, but in the meantime, you have raised some money, right?
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:49.360
Yeah.
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:52.639
Like in which where are you right now in the fundraising stages?
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:59.920
Yeah, so we are in a series seed that we are going to wrap up soon.
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:03.920
We have a lead for that, which we're very happy with.
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:07.039
And that was something that I was told would be super hard.
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:15.840
The whole first two years of the company were uh funded by a friends and family round, um, a safe, a discounted safe.
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:20.159
And the people in that round are just exquisite.
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:24.320
Some close friends, but mostly people from different businesses.
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:28.719
The music industry is a little cynical, I think, about music, I've noticed for investing.
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:42.719
Um, but we have people from skateboarding, some from the music industry, some from medical med tech, just people I knew or friends of friends that when I told them the idea, they their first question was, can I invest?
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:47.679
Um and to see it, to see that it could come true, that it could happen.
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:57.440
And um okay, so and now you you talk a little already like about artists and music and investing.
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:03.840
Last week I've been in Sweden in Stockholm at Brilliant Minds, which is a foundation founded by Daniel Eck.
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:04.400
Got it.
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.000
Uh, from Spotify.
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:11.199
Um, one of the guys I met and who was also on stage was Will I Am.
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:11.599
Oh, yeah.
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:14.800
A guy who is investing a lot also in impact things.
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:16.800
He is a big artist, clearly.
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:18.079
Um I need to talk to him.
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:18.960
Do you forgot?
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:20.960
Yeah, you definitely should talk to him.
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.079
Do you want to have artists also as investors?
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:28.000
And in is that a tricky part or are they excited to yeah?
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:40.960
We always have, and we have some artists invested, but for a larger artist like him, we have a few looking at this part of our current round that I'm really excited about, but I can't I shouldn't say anything about.
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:47.280
But um, to me, if I could have had it my way, I don't come from a finance background.
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:49.840
Uh, this was my first uh time.
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:56.159
You know, on the one sense, it doesn't matter the intricacies of how you raised or any of these things.
00:48:56.320 --> 00:49:07.119
If you have an idea that you are known, knowing you're going to get behind and do no matter what, as you look back, it could be, oh, we did this and then we did that, and then there was a discount, and it was a series A, and this person invested.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:17.920
The whole um formulation of it is just Raina and I believing so strongly in this, uh, we would go to the people that made the most sense.
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:23.920
Will I am maybe just hasn't been made the most sense to me because I didn't know him or anyone really close to him.
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:24.320
Right.
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:41.679
Um I I enjoy fundraising to an extent, but when it's artists and people who I, you know, I was saying who uh are auspicious to me or that I hold in such high regard, I find it kind of challenging because I don't want to bother, I don't want to be doing the check-ins.
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:44.239
Hey, so here's another update.
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:48.320
Um with somebody whose main role is financier.
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:52.079
Um, I think they appreciate that, and I and that's very structured.
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:52.480
Right.
00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:55.840
And some artists think that way, clearly, and and that's fine.
00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:06.400
But I would love to talk to him, and we are targeting for this round, we have three or four really, really incredible artists who want to be uh a part of it in a major way.
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:07.440
So beautiful.
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:08.880
I hope that comes true.
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:13.599
You obviously think of different product categories, and I know it's very early stage to think about it.
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:23.280
Yeah, but how big could this become in terms of being a player in the music industry, also thinking of vertical integration?
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:27.280
You yourself have such a deep knowledge of the industry in general.
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:40.239
Yeah, maybe I'm also a bit biased because I've now been so inspired by having been to Brilliant Minds and you know, meeting so many people from Spotify, and they now build their own podcasting studios and like you know what?
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:41.599
Like it's it's crazy.
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:42.000
Yeah.
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:44.320
What is your dream in that sense?
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:58.639
Yeah, so the very first thing when we started the company, I always remind myself the dream was always to, no matter how big this company is, have proof that it inspired something direct.
00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:10.480
Because I have teenage daughters, I think I'm able to think, look at their mind, and and that some someday soon, hopefully, they're they work and they have a career, but they also say, I want to make something.
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:15.599
I'd love to make my own thing, and it has to be something good for the planet.
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:17.519
It has to work in this climate space.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:17.840
Yeah.
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:23.599
I I have this negative theory that we that all jobs will be climate jobs in 20 years from now.
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:27.039
Like there won't be a, oh, I just, I'm a banker.
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:28.719
You're gonna have to be like a climate.
00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:39.280
Like sadly, if we are headed the way we uh are and there isn't major change, then that will just be a part of every single role that anyone plays.
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:42.719
You know, and I know that's kind of doomsday, but then it means there's opportunity.
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:51.760
It means you could come up with the most, you know, the people I met at your at your event or the most interesting people I've met with the most coolest ideas.
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:53.599
Probably they think the same about you.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:55.119
I'm honored, you know.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:07.599
And so, so anyways, the very first sign of success for me, and I've and Raina and I talk about this, is I want, because I don't know if this could ever be like a billion-dollar company, and everyone, you know, in people want to hear that.
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:10.079
Oh, what's your hundred X strategy?
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:19.760
I think about it, but mainly the goal for me is to be successful and to inspire people with ideas that they go, oh, and I loved those good neighbor records.
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:20.159
Yeah.
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:23.119
Um, I I need to do, I want, I want it to be like that.
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:25.360
I want to make something cool that is better.
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:25.920
Right.
00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:28.320
Uh that would be that that is totally the dream.
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:36.079
And then personally for the company, I would love to expand into anything you can think of music related outside of the records.
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:46.400
We're we're gonna start working with festivals now to do sponsor us, we're sponsoring a small stage at a great festival called FWB Fest in Idle Wild in August.
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:51.840
And at that event, we will work with the local sanitation department to understand where do they recycle?
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:52.800
How does that work?
00:52:52.960 --> 00:53:07.280
How could we start to create a smaller loop of you're drinking a beer or a margarita or a Red Bull or a water in a cup, and you're watching a band you love, and then you throw your cup into the ground or in the hopefully into the recycling bin.
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:22.480
And then what if that went locally, was recycled, turned into shred, went somewhere not too far, and we had a factory there, and we made the records from what you watched on stage, and then you could buy the record and it was on theoretically the cups.
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:24.639
Like that is doable and not easy.
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:28.000
And again, another thing people told me that's you know, too hard.
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:30.559
That's but I'm like, well, we'll just do it.
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:31.519
Let's figure it out.
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:32.239
I love that.
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:40.639
So that was my dream is to move the RPET story into like we can see it, we can take those cups, make records.
00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:44.000
Uh a last personal question.
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:48.079
You mentioned you recorded with uh Billie Eilish when she was very young.
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:48.559
Yeah.
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:52.320
And I mean, you you have a lot of stories with a lot of great artists that you've worked with.
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:54.800
Just because she's the most famous to me, right.
00:53:54.960 --> 00:54:03.119
Um were you aware back then already like what kind of special talent and and potential stars she will be?
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:05.360
You know, I thought about this before.
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:11.840
It's like so interesting when I've I've worked with a couple people who have gone on to become like super superstars.
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:20.079
And it's hard because thinking trying to remember how you felt at a time is like weird trying to trans transfer like a feeling.
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:24.159
But I remember thinking she was the coolest person I had met.
00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:29.840
And she was young and probably I don't know what she was thinking, meeting myself and my engineer.
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:31.280
We're adults, you know.
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:39.039
My daughters were almost her age, and her brother was there, and they were sitting at the piano within the first few minutes of coming into my studio.
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:46.800
I believe their mom had met my engineer's wife at like a uh dance studio or a yoga class or something, and that's how the connection happened.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:58.159
Um so we go in the studio and they sat at the piano, and instantly Phineas was singing something, and she was joining in that became, I think, the pre-chorus of board, and it was so good.
00:54:58.480 --> 00:54:58.719
Wow.
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:04.159
And I kind of think I got nervous for a second, like, uh, okay, I'm definitely out of my league.
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:09.760
And so my whole strategy always with producing music or writing songs is trying to listen to what everyone's doing.
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:11.840
And do I have anything to offer?
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:21.280
And the only thing I said was I looked at her sitting on the couch listening to us work on the guitar parts and stuff.
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:24.400
And I said, This is probably really boring, right?
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:25.760
Are you bored?
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:32.960
And I can't remember what she said, but instantly we did figure out that, oh, that's a good word for the song.
00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:41.360
And so the song became, and I had sung a melody that was like, and that became the hook.
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:42.800
Well, just that one word.
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:47.119
And again, I got lucky because they are talented in a way that I just am not.
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:48.159
And that's okay.
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:49.280
I can handle that.
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:54.320
I'll now make records out of recycled plastic and make records with them, would is the dream.
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:57.679
And we work with Phineas uh on his records, which is amazing.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:06.719
But um, yeah, I remember thinking, just thinking, uh, she looked to me like the coolest person I had met in a long time.
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:14.079
Um, cool clothes, very chill, and tried to figure out can I offer anything in this moment?
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:26.239
So we did make a really cool song uh that that helped me kind of to be completely honest, um build some success to be able to fund the company.
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:26.719
Right.
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:29.199
Um, I sold my publishing catalog.
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:34.320
That was the premiere element, and that money went to me starting Good Neighbor.
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:40.559
So, in a weird, cool way, uh, we probably made that song 13 years ago.
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:51.360
And then as it grew in in because of how successful and talented they are, the song generated enough revenue and then was so valuable to somebody to pay me for it.
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:55.519
Um, I was able to start uh Good Neighbor and go on this journey.
00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:56.159
Beautiful.
00:56:56.400 --> 00:57:06.559
So sometimes there's one moment in your life uh where they're not famous yet, and they are two young, really cool people, but I was just lucky to be there at that moment.
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:07.920
Tim, thank you so much.
00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:11.679
On a personal note, I mean I just moved to Los Angeles 10 months ago.
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:12.320
Oh yeah.
00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:27.840
And I am really grateful for letting all of us into the scene of Hollywood and the entertainment industry because I have such an impact on the textile industry and fashion and consumer climate tag with Dan.
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:28.559
Yeah.
00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:40.400
But the entertainment industry I think has a lot of potential to become better and greener and more circular, and um and you're really the first person to really open up this world to me.
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:40.880
Oh, that's right.
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:43.360
So I'm really excited and can't wait for the future.
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:47.119
So thank you so much and all the all the best luck uh for good neighbor.
00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:47.599
Awesome.
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:48.559
All right, thanks.
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:49.360
Thanks, Carl.