WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.080
the threat landscape to is not a
physical threat landscape alone as well.
2
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:08.220
Now we're on, you know, less secure
networks, perhaps at home. And maybe
3
00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:12.600
using different devices than we usually
do are less access to really maintain
4
00:00:12.600 --> 00:00:16.560
the integrity of the networks in which
our employees or using. So you know,
5
00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:20.160
there's much to consider for security
teams that are tasked with helping keep
6
00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:25.710
you know, their people, their assets
safe. You're listening to the employee
7
00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:29.980
safety podcast from Alert Media, a
podcast for professionals responsible
8
00:00:29.980 --> 00:00:33.930
for the safety and well being of their
employees. Each episode features an
9
00:00:33.940 --> 00:00:37.460
interview with the leader in employee
safety to discuss how to protect your
10
00:00:37.460 --> 00:00:41.790
employees from a wide array of threats,
from severe weather to a global
11
00:00:41.790 --> 00:00:44.250
pandemic. Let's get into the show.
12
00:00:47.340 --> 00:00:50.480
Hello and welcome to the employee
safety podcast, where for just a few
13
00:00:50.480 --> 00:00:53.520
minutes of your day, we provide
insights and ideas for keeping safe
14
00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:57.650
your most valuable asset. Your people.
I'm your host, Peter Steinfeld, and I'm
15
00:00:57.650 --> 00:01:02.120
joined today by Lucas Kwan, SRAM co
founder and CEO at Antic Lucas. Thanks
16
00:01:02.120 --> 00:01:05.080
for joining me. How are you today?
Great, Peter, thanks so much for having
17
00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:08.620
me on the podcast with you today. Well,
it's really great to have you here. I
18
00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:11.860
do appreciate it. And I'm excited to
discuss our main topic, which is how
19
00:01:11.860 --> 00:01:16.280
organizations can identify risks before
they become threats. But before we
20
00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.400
begin, can you tell our listeners just
a little bit more about your background
21
00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.630
and your rolling on tech? You bet. You
know, the story of how we ended up
22
00:01:22.630 --> 00:01:26.820
founding on Tik was really at the
intersection of protective intelligence
23
00:01:26.820 --> 00:01:32.040
tradecraft and big data technology. And
I just happened to be from the software
24
00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:37.060
technology side of that equation. And
ultimately, as CEO, I'm tasked with
25
00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:40.410
helping us build a software company so
that our clients can keep their
26
00:01:40.410 --> 00:01:44.390
businesses safe by applying the
tradecraft side of protective
27
00:01:44.390 --> 00:01:49.660
intelligence. Okay. And your protective
intelligence platform basically allow
28
00:01:49.660 --> 00:01:52.770
security leaders to take a more
proactive approach to safety. But
29
00:01:52.770 --> 00:01:56.740
before we get into that, can you
explain what exactly protective
30
00:01:56.740 --> 00:02:00.880
intelligence means? Absolutely. Peter
Protective Intelligence is an
31
00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:07.050
investigative and analytical process
used to proactively identify, assess
32
00:02:07.050 --> 00:02:11.660
and mitigate threats to protect these.
So the concept has been around for a
33
00:02:11.660 --> 00:02:15.930
while now, but it's still relatively
new in the world of corporate security,
34
00:02:15.930 --> 00:02:20.120
where teams have focused more on
reactive threat management and less on
35
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.830
getting ahead of threats before an
incident occurs. How do you predict a
36
00:02:23.830 --> 00:02:27.210
critical event before it occurs? That's
pretty amazing. Sounds like sci fi.
37
00:02:27.220 --> 00:02:32.400
Yeah, well, not quite to that level.
But, like we believe that by adapting
38
00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:38.370
mindset shift to a proactive, always on
security approach. You can continually
39
00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:43.140
collect and connect what we call pre
incident physical threat indicators to
40
00:02:43.140 --> 00:02:47.030
provide the critical knowledge needed
to prevent bad things from happening.
41
00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:51.260
You know, these pre incident indicators
come in many forms. Perhaps it's a
42
00:02:51.260 --> 00:02:56.980
threatening letter. It's dark Web post
on employee tip, you know, But all of
43
00:02:56.980 --> 00:03:00.730
these deserve what we would consider
active management. So would you say
44
00:03:00.730 --> 00:03:03.570
something like this would not have been
possible, or at least not with great
45
00:03:03.580 --> 00:03:07.970
accuracy, just a little assed 10 or 15
years ago? But now, because there's so
46
00:03:07.970 --> 00:03:11.730
much information out on the Internet
that you conclude from and put this
47
00:03:11.730 --> 00:03:14.760
story together, is that Is that why
you're able to do what you do today?
48
00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:20.470
Well, I think it was possible to do
what we dio what's changed and Why On
49
00:03:20.470 --> 00:03:25.610
tick is, you know, really so helpful to
our clients today is the volume of data
50
00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:29.350
with which there is to assess has just
exploded right across multiple
51
00:03:29.350 --> 00:03:34.030
different mediums. And so I think, just
with the amount that there is to go
52
00:03:34.040 --> 00:03:38.580
discover go investigate, uh, that's
really created a lot of challenges for
53
00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:41.820
those in the protective intelligence
field today. Yeah. No, we hear it all
54
00:03:41.820 --> 00:03:45.020
the time. Well, what about after a
threat has impacted the business. What
55
00:03:45.020 --> 00:03:48.880
should employers due to actively manage
known threats? You know, once the
56
00:03:48.880 --> 00:03:52.630
potential threat has been identified,
the next step is really to research the
57
00:03:52.630 --> 00:03:58.630
threat and apply data from sources like
public records, social media, dark net,
58
00:03:58.640 --> 00:04:01.890
so that you can learn a much as
possible about the identified threat.
59
00:04:01.900 --> 00:04:06.180
Next, you should assess the threat to
determine the severity and the risk it
60
00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:09.920
poses to your organization by
leveraging professional threat
61
00:04:09.930 --> 00:04:16.220
assessment methodologies like Sigma or
Waiver 21. Then you know, and this is
62
00:04:16.220 --> 00:04:20.440
where protective intelligence really
comes in. Peter, you watch the threat
63
00:04:20.450 --> 00:04:24.690
continuously looking for new public
records, sexual awareness, or for
64
00:04:24.690 --> 00:04:29.460
activity from your own eye. Oh, tee
devices. You know, while getting real
65
00:04:29.460 --> 00:04:34.040
time notifications and alerts really to
stay on top of activities that might
66
00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:38.200
indicate any change in that risk
profile. Is there, like an example you
67
00:04:38.200 --> 00:04:41.100
could give to people that you may not
be able to share this stuff because
68
00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:44.890
it's all obviously confidential
information, but maybe generis eyes a
69
00:04:44.890 --> 00:04:48.430
little bit like we're kind of take us
through how someone has used this?
70
00:04:48.440 --> 00:04:52.350
Absolutely. There's many different use
cases, and you know that always what
71
00:04:52.350 --> 00:04:55.520
you think. Um, and sometimes they're a
little more simple than you might think
72
00:04:55.520 --> 00:05:00.080
to write. So whether it's, ah,
threatening letter to a business
73
00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:04.480
because they don't like X y Z about the
business right and understanding. Well,
74
00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:08.620
that was pretty violent, you know? Do
we know who this individual is? Was it
75
00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:11.860
a previous employees? Is it a current
employee? You know, where does this
76
00:05:11.860 --> 00:05:16.680
person live? Do they have access to
principles? You know, that could be,
77
00:05:16.690 --> 00:05:20.890
you know, problematic to our business.
So that this one example um you know,
78
00:05:20.890 --> 00:05:24.240
other examples might be anomalous
behaviors, right? In terms of why did
79
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.210
someone, you know come visit this
facility and that facility or have
80
00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:31.820
access control patterns that were kind
of interesting to, and it's just
81
00:05:31.820 --> 00:05:36.560
continuing down that investigation of
behaviors that have potential to be
82
00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.680
concerning on bits. You know, that's
really as simple as it could be.
83
00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:44.440
Sometimes, of course, giving more
complicated, nuanced as well Well, a
84
00:05:44.440 --> 00:05:48.210
lot of time threats turns out to be
false alarms. There's just no real
85
00:05:48.210 --> 00:05:51.360
danger. So how do you detect which
threats have the greatest risk to
86
00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:55.400
employees safety or just to the
organization general? This ties back to
87
00:05:55.400 --> 00:05:59.570
your question on, you know, today and
the amount of data that exists as well,
88
00:05:59.580 --> 00:06:04.460
right? It could be difficult, but, you
know, prudence dictates taking threats
89
00:06:04.460 --> 00:06:08.900
seriously until vetted thoroughly. You
know, especially in the day that we're
90
00:06:08.900 --> 00:06:12.770
in today. Um, you kind of see that
everywhere, you know, in the political
91
00:06:12.770 --> 00:06:17.150
landscape that we're in the racial
inequality landscape, the employment
92
00:06:17.150 --> 00:06:21.230
landscape. You know, there's a lot
going on, so as simple as it sounds,
93
00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.960
you don't know what you don't know.
This is where you really need Thio.
94
00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.810
Have the help of a platform like Kontic
doesn't have to be on tick, but help of
95
00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:34.120
technology. Right? Um, this helps
clients conduct thorough investigations
96
00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.260
and AIDS in the assessment and really
helps with that analysis. And we're
97
00:06:38.260 --> 00:06:42.080
volume in time. Aren't roadblocks to
efficiency anymore because of
98
00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:46.420
technology? You never know when some of
the threat actors may come back around
99
00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:50.260
because many do, and it might not be a
week later. It could be six months. It
100
00:06:50.260 --> 00:06:54.040
could be a year later. But that's why
that prudence dictates you need to take
101
00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:57.900
everything seriously until thorough
vetting. Yeah, plan for the worst and
102
00:06:57.900 --> 00:07:01.610
hope for the best. Well, when it comes
to tracking potential risk, what's the
103
00:07:01.610 --> 00:07:06.370
difference between active and passive
monitoring back to thinking about, You
104
00:07:06.370 --> 00:07:09.960
know, today's evolving physical threat
landscape? You know, we see security
105
00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:13.910
teams dealing with known and unknown
threats, um, that are managed
106
00:07:13.910 --> 00:07:18.660
proactively by call, like hunting for
them or reactively. By taking a
107
00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:23.510
defensive approach, I'll give you a few
examples here, So if you are
108
00:07:23.510 --> 00:07:27.570
proactively threat hunting unknown
threat actors, you are likely using
109
00:07:27.570 --> 00:07:32.470
some type of innocent open source
intelligence solution. Most, the most
110
00:07:32.470 --> 00:07:36.190
common in social media listening or
sexual awareness, could get into the
111
00:07:36.190 --> 00:07:41.080
dark Web as well. So that's proactive,
you know, looking for problems. If you
112
00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:44.530
are reacting to incidents from unknown
threat actors, whether they are
113
00:07:44.530 --> 00:07:49.290
suspicious or direct threats, you may
log an incident so that you can try to
114
00:07:49.290 --> 00:07:54.130
connect the dots at a later date where
there may not be a clear pattern. Today.
115
00:07:54.140 --> 00:07:58.630
Another example of reacting to threats
from known individuals might be your
116
00:07:58.630 --> 00:08:02.910
own employees, insiders or known we
call persons of interest. You might
117
00:08:02.910 --> 00:08:07.410
conduct an investigation or a threat
assessment on a particular behavior or
118
00:08:07.410 --> 00:08:12.040
situation that occurred, you know. And
finally, one more example. Um, if
119
00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.670
you're pro actively monitoring your
known persons of interest, you may be
120
00:08:15.670 --> 00:08:20.560
looking for suspicious patterns or
anomalies in their behavior or alerts
121
00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:25.150
on their criminal activity or a
sighting of their vehicle or a badge
122
00:08:25.150 --> 00:08:29.350
swipe, etcetera, etcetera. So hopefully
that helps folks understand the
123
00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:32.809
difference between pro active threat
hunting and reactive threat defense in
124
00:08:32.809 --> 00:08:37.350
relation to both known and unknown
threats of which security teams are
125
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.970
constantly dealing with. Man, it is
amazing the kind of stuff they just
126
00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:43.980
have to be aware of, and it's just it's
physically impossible or mentally
127
00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:46.860
impossible for someone to do this on
their own. You gotta leverage some kind
128
00:08:46.860 --> 00:08:51.690
of attack. Um, with that in mind, why
do you think organizations are more
129
00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:55.810
concerned about employee safety now
than ever before? Even though a lot of
130
00:08:55.810 --> 00:08:58.840
people are just working from home and
not coming to centralize locations
131
00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:02.120
anymore? We get that question a lot
today on like, Well, you know, it must
132
00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:05.910
be a lot safer because, you know, no
one's really going toe work anymore.
133
00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:09.610
But really, what's happened is the
threats have been pushed away from the
134
00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:13.380
office, which is actually a more secure
location, typically and, you know,
135
00:09:13.380 --> 00:09:18.450
dispersed into geography due to Covic.
So security teams are stretched to
136
00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:23.160
monitor now hundreds of staff, maybe
thousands, now spread across a wide
137
00:09:23.160 --> 00:09:27.830
patch of less secure turf. Um, we know
some who have even gone to the lengths
138
00:09:27.830 --> 00:09:31.410
of geo fencing every employee's
residents to understand risk at that
139
00:09:31.410 --> 00:09:35.990
residence, right? You know, um, the
scale is pretty enormous. So you
140
00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:40.270
imagine kind of that scope of large
organizations having to deal with this?
141
00:09:40.280 --> 00:09:44.700
Um, it's pretty pretty significant.
Yeah, I can imagine. It's like people
142
00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:49.410
were previously doing their important
job that had to get done at the office,
143
00:09:49.420 --> 00:09:53.140
and if they weren't there someone else
could fill in and do it for him. But
144
00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:57.840
now that important work is being done
from their garage or their basement or
145
00:09:57.850 --> 00:10:01.610
their home office or something like
that, and you have to worry about that,
146
00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.070
you know, can this person continue to
do their job? What if they're impacted
147
00:10:05.070 --> 00:10:08.540
by a power outage? We need to know that
because you know that person's running
148
00:10:08.540 --> 00:10:11.530
payroll today or something like that,
there's just so much you gotta think
149
00:10:11.530 --> 00:10:14.760
about. That's right. And the threat
landscape to is not a physical threat
150
00:10:14.760 --> 00:10:19.180
landscape alone as well. Now we're on,
you know, less secure networks, perhaps
151
00:10:19.180 --> 00:10:22.840
at home. And maybe using different
devices than we usually do are less
152
00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:28.280
access. Thio Thio really maintain the
integrity of the networks in which our
153
00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:32.030
employees air using. So you know,
there's much to consider for security
154
00:10:32.030 --> 00:10:35.540
teams that are tasked with helping keep
you know, their people, their assets
155
00:10:35.540 --> 00:10:38.430
safe. Well, one thing that's near and
dear to my heart, because the business
156
00:10:38.430 --> 00:10:42.270
we're in alert media with mass
notification is keeping employees
157
00:10:42.270 --> 00:10:46.600
informed is super important, and it
could be really challenging, especially
158
00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:49.490
when you've got really dispersed teams
that are all coming together like we
159
00:10:49.490 --> 00:10:53.210
said into a single location. And
there's notification fatigue, because
160
00:10:53.210 --> 00:10:56.380
people are so spread out there
constantly being notified about all
161
00:10:56.380 --> 00:10:59.020
sorts of things and they tend to tune
out. And then there's all this
162
00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:02.910
uncertainty out there as well. So, in
your opinion, how can organizations
163
00:11:02.910 --> 00:11:07.370
communicate more clearly during times
of crisis and confusion? Peter, I
164
00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.630
actually think I should just ask you
that question. You answer it right? I e
165
00:11:11.640 --> 00:11:14.900
didn't. It's a perfect topic for the
team that alert media to address, to be
166
00:11:14.900 --> 00:11:19.440
quite honest. But look, threat fatigue
is an issue. Um, right, And it's it's
167
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:24.100
hard toe separate fact from fiction.
Many times, however, I do think being
168
00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:29.140
brutally honest with your staff is the
best way to message information, even
169
00:11:29.140 --> 00:11:33.020
if it's negative information. You know,
sometimes it's hard to sugarcoat fax,
170
00:11:33.020 --> 00:11:37.450
and you never want to do that in a
threatening situation. Especially, it's
171
00:11:37.450 --> 00:11:42.110
really been my experience that people
appreciate the candor we are in for a
172
00:11:42.110 --> 00:11:45.810
rocky road potentially over the next
few months. So you never know what's
173
00:11:45.810 --> 00:11:50.160
gonna happen, of course, but arming
your people with knowledge and fax, I
174
00:11:50.160 --> 00:11:55.100
think is very helpful and, you know,
seriously, a product like what alert
175
00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:59.370
media provides can be a great asset for
effective mass communication. Do you
176
00:11:59.370 --> 00:12:03.450
typically find that your clients will
take the information that they find and
177
00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:07.990
hold it kind of behind closed vest? Or
did they realize, Wow, this is very
178
00:12:07.990 --> 00:12:11.800
powerful. Let's start creating a
culture of sharing, of course, when it
179
00:12:11.800 --> 00:12:14.830
when it can't add to the security
situation itself. But do they start to
180
00:12:14.830 --> 00:12:18.380
share mawr once they start uncovering
all this stuff? Yeah, it's very
181
00:12:18.380 --> 00:12:22.770
situational. Yeah, some stuff is need
to know, and some things are under
182
00:12:22.770 --> 00:12:27.940
investigation, and there's still a lot
to learn with the work that we do right
183
00:12:27.950 --> 00:12:31.860
on DSO There may be layers of
information sharing that need to occur,
184
00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:36.700
right? Um, if an executive has threats
against them, there's many times they
185
00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:39.660
don't necessarily know about all of
them. But when they get to a level that
186
00:12:39.660 --> 00:12:43.100
hey, we actually need to change course
we're not going to this location
187
00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:47.380
anymore, Then they do need to know what
is happening, why, you know, and what's
188
00:12:47.380 --> 00:12:51.800
occurring. And there may be pushback on
that happens all the time um, you know,
189
00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:56.050
So not every single thing that occurs
from a threat landscape perspective
190
00:12:56.050 --> 00:12:59.450
needs to be shared. I would think with
every single employee there would be
191
00:12:59.450 --> 00:13:03.470
volume ist to be quite honest, what's
happening every single day. But I do
192
00:13:03.470 --> 00:13:07.520
think as relates to, you know, business
continuity issues as it relates thio
193
00:13:07.530 --> 00:13:11.060
having visibility to their own safety
and security. That's when, of course,
194
00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:15.460
teams need to be informed. Yeah, I
think it just comes down to people are
195
00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:21.130
more likely to, you know, respond
positively if they understand the why
196
00:13:21.130 --> 00:13:25.830
behind it if they're just told x. But
they have no understanding as to why it
197
00:13:25.830 --> 00:13:29.400
tends to freak people out and makes
them more resistant. Pushes them away
198
00:13:29.410 --> 00:13:33.150
from whatever behavior you're trying
Thio, establish out there. So, yeah,
199
00:13:33.150 --> 00:13:37.390
when possible, clearly keep it private
if it needs to be. But if not share the
200
00:13:37.390 --> 00:13:42.540
why behind it. Yeah, appropriate
context is very helpful. Absolutely
201
00:13:42.550 --> 00:13:46.750
well, going back to physical security,
there have been some pretty significant
202
00:13:46.750 --> 00:13:51.250
in tragic incidents recently. Such a Z,
the U. S Capitol building riot and that
203
00:13:51.250 --> 00:13:54.710
really tragic bombing that happened in
Nashville during the holidays. How
204
00:13:54.710 --> 00:13:58.180
could adopting a proactive approach to
security. Help prevent crises like
205
00:13:58.180 --> 00:14:02.250
those. If I may. We actually do have a
couple of podcasts Where Fred Burton on
206
00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:07.020
our team speaks specifically about the
U. S. Capitol building in Nashville.
207
00:14:07.030 --> 00:14:12.460
Those might be very helpful because we
unpacked those a little bit more. How
208
00:14:12.460 --> 00:14:15.590
can people find those just real quickly?
Tell our listeners. Oh, great. Thanks,
209
00:14:15.590 --> 00:14:21.160
Peter. Yeah, if you had thio on, take
dot ai slash center. That's where
210
00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:24.750
you'll find the Center for Protective
Intelligence. You know where we share?
211
00:14:24.760 --> 00:14:28.430
Ah, lot of great content along the
lines of what you're asking, you know,
212
00:14:28.430 --> 00:14:32.970
exactly in this question, Um, I think
what you find is physical security
213
00:14:32.970 --> 00:14:37.900
alone is never enough. It does take
intelligence collection and constant
214
00:14:37.900 --> 00:14:43.370
monitoring of the situation. Protective
intelligence model is rarely used by
215
00:14:43.370 --> 00:14:47.390
police departments. Please have a much
different approach and mindset, which
216
00:14:47.390 --> 00:14:51.850
centers on reaction. Um, the streams
leading up to the U. S. Capitol attack
217
00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:55.160
was one of the worst protective
intelligence intelligence failures
218
00:14:55.240 --> 00:15:00.520
we've really ever seen. The threats
were there but discarded. And to be
219
00:15:00.520 --> 00:15:04.550
honest, today, we don't know why. Well,
it kind of happened with 9 11, too. I
220
00:15:04.550 --> 00:15:07.430
mean, that could have been a whole
different situation. That's an entirely
221
00:15:07.430 --> 00:15:11.250
different podcast that we could go down.
But the information was there and it
222
00:15:11.250 --> 00:15:16.030
was discarded or it wasn't shared
properly. Eso It seems like it's out
223
00:15:16.030 --> 00:15:18.620
there, and you have to leverage
technology to bring it all together and
224
00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:23.330
bubble it up. Yeah, the proactive
protective intelligence model Um right
225
00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:31.040
is key line of initial defense, uh, in
the physical security work that many
226
00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:35.790
organizations dio. But it is one piece
right? There is a lot that's also
227
00:15:35.790 --> 00:15:40.820
required as it relates to helping keep
people safe. Well, I wanna ask just one
228
00:15:40.820 --> 00:15:43.500
more question in closing, we like to
give our audience something they could
229
00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.390
take with them and immediately go make
an impact on their organization. So
230
00:15:47.400 --> 00:15:50.960
what's something that our audience can
take action on today? In your opinion,
231
00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.480
to help them improve their company's
safety culture, I think making sexual
232
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:59.350
awareness a company mission would be
that key take away. You know, if
233
00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:03.050
leadership makes safety a priority,
everyone else will take it seriously.
234
00:16:03.060 --> 00:16:07.010
For example, you know, if the CEO
doesn't wear their badge to swipe in no
235
00:16:07.010 --> 00:16:10.780
one else thinks is important. So they
follow that pattern. You know, safety
236
00:16:10.790 --> 00:16:15.320
really starts the top. And if this
isn't happening at your organization ID
237
00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.700
to make your voice heard, I don't think
there's a better time. To be quite
238
00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:23.360
honest, the risks are far too great to
not do the work required ahead of a
239
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:27.350
tragic event. Yeah, I agree. Those air
Two very powerful things. One speak up.
240
00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:31.130
When you see something wrong, don't
ever be ashamed to do that into its Got
241
00:16:31.130 --> 00:16:34.260
to trickle down from the top. If
executives don't embrace it, nobody
242
00:16:34.260 --> 00:16:37.220
else will. That it seems obvious, but
sometimes you just have to state it
243
00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:40.570
multiple times. You got it, Peter.
Alright. Well, hey, fantastic
244
00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:43.610
conversation. I really appreciate the
time today If anyone listening has
245
00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:47.030
follow up questions, uh, just wants to
connect with you. Whatever it is.
246
00:16:47.030 --> 00:16:50.040
What's the best way for them to find
you out there, Feel free to connect, to
247
00:16:50.040 --> 00:16:54.400
be on linked in, Or you can even email
me at Luke and antique that ai or find
248
00:16:54.400 --> 00:16:58.570
me on Twitter. Um, you know, I'm pretty
available, but Peter, really. Thank you
249
00:16:58.570 --> 00:17:02.350
so much for having me here today. to
discuss this important topic. All right,
250
00:17:02.350 --> 00:17:05.530
well, thanks again for taking time to
join us on the employee safety podcast
251
00:17:05.530 --> 00:17:09.150
and to the rest of you out there.
Remember, nothing ever goes 100%
252
00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:13.240
according to plan in an emergency, so
communication is incredibly important.
253
00:17:13.250 --> 00:17:20.200
If you can't communicate, you can't
recover until next time. Alert. Media
254
00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:24.140
is changing the way your leaders and
response teams connect and communicate
255
00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:28.109
effectively. When seconds matter way
provide our customers with a
256
00:17:28.109 --> 00:17:32.000
comprehensive solution for monitoring
threats around the world and deploying
257
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.500
fast, effective emergency communication.
You need a panic proof solution for
258
00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:40.640
high stakes moments. In just a few
clicks, your team consent a multi
259
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.160
channel notification to an impact a
group of people and confirm their
260
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:48.380
safety immediately. When employees
safety is at stake, don't just
261
00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:52.800
communicate, connect and confirm with a
robust emergency communications
262
00:17:52.800 --> 00:17:56.670
solution. Visit alert media dot com for
more information.
263
00:17:59.040 --> 00:18:04.380
You've been listening to the employee
safety podcast to ensure that you never
264
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:08.360
miss an episode. Subscribe to the show
in your favorite podcast player. If
265
00:18:08.360 --> 00:18:11.080
you're listening in apple podcasts,
we'd love for you to give a quick
266
00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:14.790
rating of the show. Just tap the number
of stars you think the podcast deserves.
267
00:18:14.800 --> 00:18:17.850
Thank you so much for listening until
next time
1
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.080
the threat landscape to is not a
physical threat landscape alone as well.
2
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:08.220
Now we're on, you know, less secure
networks, perhaps at home. And maybe
3
00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:12.600
using different devices than we usually
do are less access to really maintain
4
00:00:12.600 --> 00:00:16.560
the integrity of the networks in which
our employees or using. So you know,
5
00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:20.160
there's much to consider for security
teams that are tasked with helping keep
6
00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:25.710
you know, their people, their assets
safe. You're listening to the employee
7
00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:29.980
safety podcast from Alert Media, a
podcast for professionals responsible
8
00:00:29.980 --> 00:00:33.930
for the safety and well being of their
employees. Each episode features an
9
00:00:33.940 --> 00:00:37.460
interview with the leader in employee
safety to discuss how to protect your
10
00:00:37.460 --> 00:00:41.790
employees from a wide array of threats,
from severe weather to a global
11
00:00:41.790 --> 00:00:44.250
pandemic. Let's get into the show.
12
00:00:47.340 --> 00:00:50.480
Hello and welcome to the employee
safety podcast, where for just a few
13
00:00:50.480 --> 00:00:53.520
minutes of your day, we provide
insights and ideas for keeping safe
14
00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:57.650
your most valuable asset. Your people.
I'm your host, Peter Steinfeld, and I'm
15
00:00:57.650 --> 00:01:02.120
joined today by Lucas Kwan, SRAM co
founder and CEO at Antic Lucas. Thanks
16
00:01:02.120 --> 00:01:05.080
for joining me. How are you today?
Great, Peter, thanks so much for having
17
00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:08.620
me on the podcast with you today. Well,
it's really great to have you here. I
18
00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:11.860
do appreciate it. And I'm excited to
discuss our main topic, which is how
19
00:01:11.860 --> 00:01:16.280
organizations can identify risks before
they become threats. But before we
20
00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.400
begin, can you tell our listeners just
a little bit more about your background
21
00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.630
and your rolling on tech? You bet. You
know, the story of how we ended up
22
00:01:22.630 --> 00:01:26.820
founding on Tik was really at the
intersection of protective intelligence
23
00:01:26.820 --> 00:01:32.040
tradecraft and big data technology. And
I just happened to be from the software
24
00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:37.060
technology side of that equation. And
ultimately, as CEO, I'm tasked with
25
00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:40.410
helping us build a software company so
that our clients can keep their
26
00:01:40.410 --> 00:01:44.390
businesses safe by applying the
tradecraft side of protective
27
00:01:44.390 --> 00:01:49.660
intelligence. Okay. And your protective
intelligence platform basically allow
28
00:01:49.660 --> 00:01:52.770
security leaders to take a more
proactive approach to safety. But
29
00:01:52.770 --> 00:01:56.740
before we get into that, can you
explain what exactly protective
30
00:01:56.740 --> 00:02:00.880
intelligence means? Absolutely. Peter
Protective Intelligence is an
31
00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:07.050
investigative and analytical process
used to proactively identify, assess
32
00:02:07.050 --> 00:02:11.660
and mitigate threats to protect these.
So the concept has been around for a
33
00:02:11.660 --> 00:02:15.930
while now, but it's still relatively
new in the world of corporate security,
34
00:02:15.930 --> 00:02:20.120
where teams have focused more on
reactive threat management and less on
35
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.830
getting ahead of threats before an
incident occurs. How do you predict a
36
00:02:23.830 --> 00:02:27.210
critical event before it occurs? That's
pretty amazing. Sounds like sci fi.
37
00:02:27.220 --> 00:02:32.400
Yeah, well, not quite to that level.
But, like we believe that by adapting
38
00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:38.370
mindset shift to a proactive, always on
security approach. You can continually
39
00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:43.140
collect and connect what we call pre
incident physical threat indicators to
40
00:02:43.140 --> 00:02:47.030
provide the critical knowledge needed
to prevent bad things from happening.
41
00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:51.260
You know, these pre incident indicators
come in many forms. Perhaps it's a
42
00:02:51.260 --> 00:02:56.980
threatening letter. It's dark Web post
on employee tip, you know, But all of
43
00:02:56.980 --> 00:03:00.730
these deserve what we would consider
active management. So would you say
44
00:03:00.730 --> 00:03:03.570
something like this would not have been
possible, or at least not with great
45
00:03:03.580 --> 00:03:07.970
accuracy, just a little assed 10 or 15
years ago? But now, because there's so
46
00:03:07.970 --> 00:03:11.730
much information out on the Internet
that you conclude from and put this
47
00:03:11.730 --> 00:03:14.760
story together, is that Is that why
you're able to do what you do today?
48
00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:20.470
Well, I think it was possible to do
what we dio what's changed and Why On
49
00:03:20.470 --> 00:03:25.610
tick is, you know, really so helpful to
our clients today is the volume of data
50
00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:29.350
with which there is to assess has just
exploded right across multiple
51
00:03:29.350 --> 00:03:34.030
different mediums. And so I think, just
with the amount that there is to go
52
00:03:34.040 --> 00:03:38.580
discover go investigate, uh, that's
really created a lot of challenges for
53
00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:41.820
those in the protective intelligence
field today. Yeah. No, we hear it all
54
00:03:41.820 --> 00:03:45.020
the time. Well, what about after a
threat has impacted the business. What
55
00:03:45.020 --> 00:03:48.880
should employers due to actively manage
known threats? You know, once the
56
00:03:48.880 --> 00:03:52.630
potential threat has been identified,
the next step is really to research the
57
00:03:52.630 --> 00:03:58.630
threat and apply data from sources like
public records, social media, dark net,
58
00:03:58.640 --> 00:04:01.890
so that you can learn a much as
possible about the identified threat.
59
00:04:01.900 --> 00:04:06.180
Next, you should assess the threat to
determine the severity and the risk it
60
00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:09.920
poses to your organization by
leveraging professional threat
61
00:04:09.930 --> 00:04:16.220
assessment methodologies like Sigma or
Waiver 21. Then you know, and this is
62
00:04:16.220 --> 00:04:20.440
where protective intelligence really
comes in. Peter, you watch the threat
63
00:04:20.450 --> 00:04:24.690
continuously looking for new public
records, sexual awareness, or for
64
00:04:24.690 --> 00:04:29.460
activity from your own eye. Oh, tee
devices. You know, while getting real
65
00:04:29.460 --> 00:04:34.040
time notifications and alerts really to
stay on top of activities that might
66
00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:38.200
indicate any change in that risk
profile. Is there, like an example you
67
00:04:38.200 --> 00:04:41.100
could give to people that you may not
be able to share this stuff because
68
00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:44.890
it's all obviously confidential
information, but maybe generis eyes a
69
00:04:44.890 --> 00:04:48.430
little bit like we're kind of take us
through how someone has used this?
70
00:04:48.440 --> 00:04:52.350
Absolutely. There's many different use
cases, and you know that always what
71
00:04:52.350 --> 00:04:55.520
you think. Um, and sometimes they're a
little more simple than you might think
72
00:04:55.520 --> 00:05:00.080
to write. So whether it's, ah,
threatening letter to a business
73
00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:04.480
because they don't like X y Z about the
business right and understanding. Well,
74
00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:08.620
that was pretty violent, you know? Do
we know who this individual is? Was it
75
00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:11.860
a previous employees? Is it a current
employee? You know, where does this
76
00:05:11.860 --> 00:05:16.680
person live? Do they have access to
principles? You know, that could be,
77
00:05:16.690 --> 00:05:20.890
you know, problematic to our business.
So that this one example um you know,
78
00:05:20.890 --> 00:05:24.240
other examples might be anomalous
behaviors, right? In terms of why did
79
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.210
someone, you know come visit this
facility and that facility or have
80
00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:31.820
access control patterns that were kind
of interesting to, and it's just
81
00:05:31.820 --> 00:05:36.560
continuing down that investigation of
behaviors that have potential to be
82
00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.680
concerning on bits. You know, that's
really as simple as it could be.
83
00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:44.440
Sometimes, of course, giving more
complicated, nuanced as well Well, a
84
00:05:44.440 --> 00:05:48.210
lot of time threats turns out to be
false alarms. There's just no real
85
00:05:48.210 --> 00:05:51.360
danger. So how do you detect which
threats have the greatest risk to
86
00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:55.400
employees safety or just to the
organization general? This ties back to
87
00:05:55.400 --> 00:05:59.570
your question on, you know, today and
the amount of data that exists as well,
88
00:05:59.580 --> 00:06:04.460
right? It could be difficult, but, you
know, prudence dictates taking threats
89
00:06:04.460 --> 00:06:08.900
seriously until vetted thoroughly. You
know, especially in the day that we're
90
00:06:08.900 --> 00:06:12.770
in today. Um, you kind of see that
everywhere, you know, in the political
91
00:06:12.770 --> 00:06:17.150
landscape that we're in the racial
inequality landscape, the employment
92
00:06:17.150 --> 00:06:21.230
landscape. You know, there's a lot
going on, so as simple as it sounds,
93
00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.960
you don't know what you don't know.
This is where you really need Thio.
94
00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.810
Have the help of a platform like Kontic
doesn't have to be on tick, but help of
95
00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:34.120
technology. Right? Um, this helps
clients conduct thorough investigations
96
00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.260
and AIDS in the assessment and really
helps with that analysis. And we're
97
00:06:38.260 --> 00:06:42.080
volume in time. Aren't roadblocks to
efficiency anymore because of
98
00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:46.420
technology? You never know when some of
the threat actors may come back around
99
00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:50.260
because many do, and it might not be a
week later. It could be six months. It
100
00:06:50.260 --> 00:06:54.040
could be a year later. But that's why
that prudence dictates you need to take
101
00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:57.900
everything seriously until thorough
vetting. Yeah, plan for the worst and
102
00:06:57.900 --> 00:07:01.610
hope for the best. Well, when it comes
to tracking potential risk, what's the
103
00:07:01.610 --> 00:07:06.370
difference between active and passive
monitoring back to thinking about, You
104
00:07:06.370 --> 00:07:09.960
know, today's evolving physical threat
landscape? You know, we see security
105
00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:13.910
teams dealing with known and unknown
threats, um, that are managed
106
00:07:13.910 --> 00:07:18.660
proactively by call, like hunting for
them or reactively. By taking a
107
00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:23.510
defensive approach, I'll give you a few
examples here, So if you are
108
00:07:23.510 --> 00:07:27.570
proactively threat hunting unknown
threat actors, you are likely using
109
00:07:27.570 --> 00:07:32.470
some type of innocent open source
intelligence solution. Most, the most
110
00:07:32.470 --> 00:07:36.190
common in social media listening or
sexual awareness, could get into the
111
00:07:36.190 --> 00:07:41.080
dark Web as well. So that's proactive,
you know, looking for problems. If you
112
00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:44.530
are reacting to incidents from unknown
threat actors, whether they are
113
00:07:44.530 --> 00:07:49.290
suspicious or direct threats, you may
log an incident so that you can try to
114
00:07:49.290 --> 00:07:54.130
connect the dots at a later date where
there may not be a clear pattern. Today.
115
00:07:54.140 --> 00:07:58.630
Another example of reacting to threats
from known individuals might be your
116
00:07:58.630 --> 00:08:02.910
own employees, insiders or known we
call persons of interest. You might
117
00:08:02.910 --> 00:08:07.410
conduct an investigation or a threat
assessment on a particular behavior or
118
00:08:07.410 --> 00:08:12.040
situation that occurred, you know. And
finally, one more example. Um, if
119
00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.670
you're pro actively monitoring your
known persons of interest, you may be
120
00:08:15.670 --> 00:08:20.560
looking for suspicious patterns or
anomalies in their behavior or alerts
121
00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:25.150
on their criminal activity or a
sighting of their vehicle or a badge
122
00:08:25.150 --> 00:08:29.350
swipe, etcetera, etcetera. So hopefully
that helps folks understand the
123
00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:32.809
difference between pro active threat
hunting and reactive threat defense in
124
00:08:32.809 --> 00:08:37.350
relation to both known and unknown
threats of which security teams are
125
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.970
constantly dealing with. Man, it is
amazing the kind of stuff they just
126
00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:43.980
have to be aware of, and it's just it's
physically impossible or mentally
127
00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:46.860
impossible for someone to do this on
their own. You gotta leverage some kind
128
00:08:46.860 --> 00:08:51.690
of attack. Um, with that in mind, why
do you think organizations are more
129
00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:55.810
concerned about employee safety now
than ever before? Even though a lot of
130
00:08:55.810 --> 00:08:58.840
people are just working from home and
not coming to centralize locations
131
00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:02.120
anymore? We get that question a lot
today on like, Well, you know, it must
132
00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:05.910
be a lot safer because, you know, no
one's really going toe work anymore.
133
00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:09.610
But really, what's happened is the
threats have been pushed away from the
134
00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:13.380
office, which is actually a more secure
location, typically and, you know,
135
00:09:13.380 --> 00:09:18.450
dispersed into geography due to Covic.
So security teams are stretched to
136
00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:23.160
monitor now hundreds of staff, maybe
thousands, now spread across a wide
137
00:09:23.160 --> 00:09:27.830
patch of less secure turf. Um, we know
some who have even gone to the lengths
138
00:09:27.830 --> 00:09:31.410
of geo fencing every employee's
residents to understand risk at that
139
00:09:31.410 --> 00:09:35.990
residence, right? You know, um, the
scale is pretty enormous. So you
140
00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:40.270
imagine kind of that scope of large
organizations having to deal with this?
141
00:09:40.280 --> 00:09:44.700
Um, it's pretty pretty significant.
Yeah, I can imagine. It's like people
142
00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:49.410
were previously doing their important
job that had to get done at the office,
143
00:09:49.420 --> 00:09:53.140
and if they weren't there someone else
could fill in and do it for him. But
144
00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:57.840
now that important work is being done
from their garage or their basement or
145
00:09:57.850 --> 00:10:01.610
their home office or something like
that, and you have to worry about that,
146
00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.070
you know, can this person continue to
do their job? What if they're impacted
147
00:10:05.070 --> 00:10:08.540
by a power outage? We need to know that
because you know that person's running
148
00:10:08.540 --> 00:10:11.530
payroll today or something like that,
there's just so much you gotta think
149
00:10:11.530 --> 00:10:14.760
about. That's right. And the threat
landscape to is not a physical threat
150
00:10:14.760 --> 00:10:19.180
landscape alone as well. Now we're on,
you know, less secure networks, perhaps
151
00:10:19.180 --> 00:10:22.840
at home. And maybe using different
devices than we usually do are less
152
00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:28.280
access. Thio Thio really maintain the
integrity of the networks in which our
153
00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:32.030
employees air using. So you know,
there's much to consider for security
154
00:10:32.030 --> 00:10:35.540
teams that are tasked with helping keep
you know, their people, their assets
155
00:10:35.540 --> 00:10:38.430
safe. Well, one thing that's near and
dear to my heart, because the business
156
00:10:38.430 --> 00:10:42.270
we're in alert media with mass
notification is keeping employees
157
00:10:42.270 --> 00:10:46.600
informed is super important, and it
could be really challenging, especially
158
00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:49.490
when you've got really dispersed teams
that are all coming together like we
159
00:10:49.490 --> 00:10:53.210
said into a single location. And
there's notification fatigue, because
160
00:10:53.210 --> 00:10:56.380
people are so spread out there
constantly being notified about all
161
00:10:56.380 --> 00:10:59.020
sorts of things and they tend to tune
out. And then there's all this
162
00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:02.910
uncertainty out there as well. So, in
your opinion, how can organizations
163
00:11:02.910 --> 00:11:07.370
communicate more clearly during times
of crisis and confusion? Peter, I
164
00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.630
actually think I should just ask you
that question. You answer it right? I e
165
00:11:11.640 --> 00:11:14.900
didn't. It's a perfect topic for the
team that alert media to address, to be
166
00:11:14.900 --> 00:11:19.440
quite honest. But look, threat fatigue
is an issue. Um, right, And it's it's
167
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:24.100
hard toe separate fact from fiction.
Many times, however, I do think being
168
00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:29.140
brutally honest with your staff is the
best way to message information, even
169
00:11:29.140 --> 00:11:33.020
if it's negative information. You know,
sometimes it's hard to sugarcoat fax,
170
00:11:33.020 --> 00:11:37.450
and you never want to do that in a
threatening situation. Especially, it's
171
00:11:37.450 --> 00:11:42.110
really been my experience that people
appreciate the candor we are in for a
172
00:11:42.110 --> 00:11:45.810
rocky road potentially over the next
few months. So you never know what's
173
00:11:45.810 --> 00:11:50.160
gonna happen, of course, but arming
your people with knowledge and fax, I
174
00:11:50.160 --> 00:11:55.100
think is very helpful and, you know,
seriously, a product like what alert
175
00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:59.370
media provides can be a great asset for
effective mass communication. Do you
176
00:11:59.370 --> 00:12:03.450
typically find that your clients will
take the information that they find and
177
00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:07.990
hold it kind of behind closed vest? Or
did they realize, Wow, this is very
178
00:12:07.990 --> 00:12:11.800
powerful. Let's start creating a
culture of sharing, of course, when it
179
00:12:11.800 --> 00:12:14.830
when it can't add to the security
situation itself. But do they start to
180
00:12:14.830 --> 00:12:18.380
share mawr once they start uncovering
all this stuff? Yeah, it's very
181
00:12:18.380 --> 00:12:22.770
situational. Yeah, some stuff is need
to know, and some things are under
182
00:12:22.770 --> 00:12:27.940
investigation, and there's still a lot
to learn with the work that we do right
183
00:12:27.950 --> 00:12:31.860
on DSO There may be layers of
information sharing that need to occur,
184
00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:36.700
right? Um, if an executive has threats
against them, there's many times they
185
00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:39.660
don't necessarily know about all of
them. But when they get to a level that
186
00:12:39.660 --> 00:12:43.100
hey, we actually need to change course
we're not going to this location
187
00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:47.380
anymore, Then they do need to know what
is happening, why, you know, and what's
188
00:12:47.380 --> 00:12:51.800
occurring. And there may be pushback on
that happens all the time um, you know,
189
00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:56.050
So not every single thing that occurs
from a threat landscape perspective
190
00:12:56.050 --> 00:12:59.450
needs to be shared. I would think with
every single employee there would be
191
00:12:59.450 --> 00:13:03.470
volume ist to be quite honest, what's
happening every single day. But I do
192
00:13:03.470 --> 00:13:07.520
think as relates to, you know, business
continuity issues as it relates thio
193
00:13:07.530 --> 00:13:11.060
having visibility to their own safety
and security. That's when, of course,
194
00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:15.460
teams need to be informed. Yeah, I
think it just comes down to people are
195
00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:21.130
more likely to, you know, respond
positively if they understand the why
196
00:13:21.130 --> 00:13:25.830
behind it if they're just told x. But
they have no understanding as to why it
197
00:13:25.830 --> 00:13:29.400
tends to freak people out and makes
them more resistant. Pushes them away
198
00:13:29.410 --> 00:13:33.150
from whatever behavior you're trying
Thio, establish out there. So, yeah,
199
00:13:33.150 --> 00:13:37.390
when possible, clearly keep it private
if it needs to be. But if not share the
200
00:13:37.390 --> 00:13:42.540
why behind it. Yeah, appropriate
context is very helpful. Absolutely
201
00:13:42.550 --> 00:13:46.750
well, going back to physical security,
there have been some pretty significant
202
00:13:46.750 --> 00:13:51.250
in tragic incidents recently. Such a Z,
the U. S Capitol building riot and that
203
00:13:51.250 --> 00:13:54.710
really tragic bombing that happened in
Nashville during the holidays. How
204
00:13:54.710 --> 00:13:58.180
could adopting a proactive approach to
security. Help prevent crises like
205
00:13:58.180 --> 00:14:02.250
those. If I may. We actually do have a
couple of podcasts Where Fred Burton on
206
00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:07.020
our team speaks specifically about the
U. S. Capitol building in Nashville.
207
00:14:07.030 --> 00:14:12.460
Those might be very helpful because we
unpacked those a little bit more. How
208
00:14:12.460 --> 00:14:15.590
can people find those just real quickly?
Tell our listeners. Oh, great. Thanks,
209
00:14:15.590 --> 00:14:21.160
Peter. Yeah, if you had thio on, take
dot ai slash center. That's where
210
00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:24.750
you'll find the Center for Protective
Intelligence. You know where we share?
211
00:14:24.760 --> 00:14:28.430
Ah, lot of great content along the
lines of what you're asking, you know,
212
00:14:28.430 --> 00:14:32.970
exactly in this question, Um, I think
what you find is physical security
213
00:14:32.970 --> 00:14:37.900
alone is never enough. It does take
intelligence collection and constant
214
00:14:37.900 --> 00:14:43.370
monitoring of the situation. Protective
intelligence model is rarely used by
215
00:14:43.370 --> 00:14:47.390
police departments. Please have a much
different approach and mindset, which
216
00:14:47.390 --> 00:14:51.850
centers on reaction. Um, the streams
leading up to the U. S. Capitol attack
217
00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:55.160
was one of the worst protective
intelligence intelligence failures
218
00:14:55.240 --> 00:15:00.520
we've really ever seen. The threats
were there but discarded. And to be
219
00:15:00.520 --> 00:15:04.550
honest, today, we don't know why. Well,
it kind of happened with 9 11, too. I
220
00:15:04.550 --> 00:15:07.430
mean, that could have been a whole
different situation. That's an entirely
221
00:15:07.430 --> 00:15:11.250
different podcast that we could go down.
But the information was there and it
222
00:15:11.250 --> 00:15:16.030
was discarded or it wasn't shared
properly. Eso It seems like it's out
223
00:15:16.030 --> 00:15:18.620
there, and you have to leverage
technology to bring it all together and
224
00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:23.330
bubble it up. Yeah, the proactive
protective intelligence model Um right
225
00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:31.040
is key line of initial defense, uh, in
the physical security work that many
226
00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:35.790
organizations dio. But it is one piece
right? There is a lot that's also
227
00:15:35.790 --> 00:15:40.820
required as it relates to helping keep
people safe. Well, I wanna ask just one
228
00:15:40.820 --> 00:15:43.500
more question in closing, we like to
give our audience something they could
229
00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.390
take with them and immediately go make
an impact on their organization. So
230
00:15:47.400 --> 00:15:50.960
what's something that our audience can
take action on today? In your opinion,
231
00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.480
to help them improve their company's
safety culture, I think making sexual
232
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:59.350
awareness a company mission would be
that key take away. You know, if
233
00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:03.050
leadership makes safety a priority,
everyone else will take it seriously.
234
00:16:03.060 --> 00:16:07.010
For example, you know, if the CEO
doesn't wear their badge to swipe in no
235
00:16:07.010 --> 00:16:10.780
one else thinks is important. So they
follow that pattern. You know, safety
236
00:16:10.790 --> 00:16:15.320
really starts the top. And if this
isn't happening at your organization ID
237
00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.700
to make your voice heard, I don't think
there's a better time. To be quite
238
00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:23.360
honest, the risks are far too great to
not do the work required ahead of a
239
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:27.350
tragic event. Yeah, I agree. Those air
Two very powerful things. One speak up.
240
00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:31.130
When you see something wrong, don't
ever be ashamed to do that into its Got
241
00:16:31.130 --> 00:16:34.260
to trickle down from the top. If
executives don't embrace it, nobody
242
00:16:34.260 --> 00:16:37.220
else will. That it seems obvious, but
sometimes you just have to state it
243
00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:40.570
multiple times. You got it, Peter.
Alright. Well, hey, fantastic
244
00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:43.610
conversation. I really appreciate the
time today If anyone listening has
245
00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:47.030
follow up questions, uh, just wants to
connect with you. Whatever it is.
246
00:16:47.030 --> 00:16:50.040
What's the best way for them to find
you out there, Feel free to connect, to
247
00:16:50.040 --> 00:16:54.400
be on linked in, Or you can even email
me at Luke and antique that ai or find
248
00:16:54.400 --> 00:16:58.570
me on Twitter. Um, you know, I'm pretty
available, but Peter, really. Thank you
249
00:16:58.570 --> 00:17:02.350
so much for having me here today. to
discuss this important topic. All right,
250
00:17:02.350 --> 00:17:05.530
well, thanks again for taking time to
join us on the employee safety podcast
251
00:17:05.530 --> 00:17:09.150
and to the rest of you out there.
Remember, nothing ever goes 100%
252
00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:13.240
according to plan in an emergency, so
communication is incredibly important.
253
00:17:13.250 --> 00:17:20.200
If you can't communicate, you can't
recover until next time. Alert. Media
254
00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:24.140
is changing the way your leaders and
response teams connect and communicate
255
00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:28.109
effectively. When seconds matter way
provide our customers with a
256
00:17:28.109 --> 00:17:32.000
comprehensive solution for monitoring
threats around the world and deploying
257
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.500
fast, effective emergency communication.
You need a panic proof solution for
258
00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:40.640
high stakes moments. In just a few
clicks, your team consent a multi
259
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.160
channel notification to an impact a
group of people and confirm their
260
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:48.380
safety immediately. When employees
safety is at stake, don't just
261
00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:52.800
communicate, connect and confirm with a
robust emergency communications
262
00:17:52.800 --> 00:17:56.670
solution. Visit alert media dot com for
more information.
263
00:17:59.040 --> 00:18:04.380
You've been listening to the employee
safety podcast to ensure that you never
264
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:08.360
miss an episode. Subscribe to the show
in your favorite podcast player. If
265
00:18:08.360 --> 00:18:11.080
you're listening in apple podcasts,
we'd love for you to give a quick
266
00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:14.790
rating of the show. Just tap the number
of stars you think the podcast deserves.
267
00:18:14.800 --> 00:18:17.850
Thank you so much for listening until
next time
