00:00:03
Speaker 1: Ruby.
00:00:07
Speaker 2: See that's a trick. Those are boyfriends.
00:00:11
Speaker 3: Yes, young people go to bars these days, but they go to bars to socialize, and then they go home and they get on the internet to pick somebody up.
00:00:21
Speaker 1: I just look at their cross and they look at mine.
00:00:25
Speaker 2: From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles and steamy Palm Springs, California, it's Mick Robert Bill just say, and this is silver lightning.
00:00:38
Speaker 3: With the old days. Well, hello again, lovers. Bill, are you feeling frisky?
00:00:49
Speaker 2: That can only mean one.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: Thing and I'm already blushing.
00:00:54
Speaker 3: Today's episode is about first crushes, romance, heartbreak, and relationships.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: And flirting back when it required nerve, eye contact.
00:01:06
Speaker 3: And a decent mustache.
00:01:09
Speaker 1: Growing up, gay crushes weren't exactly simple at the time.
00:01:14
Speaker 3: You didn't know what you were feeling.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: You just knew your stomach flipped when a certain someone walked.
00:01:20
Speaker 3: By, and you tried very hard not to stare in the locker room. Speak for yourself, I am.
00:01:31
Speaker 1: When we got started, there were no apps.
00:01:34
Speaker 3: No swiping lift, no profile pictures.
00:01:39
Speaker 2: Just vibes and energy. Irl.
00:01:44
Speaker 1: So today we're going back to secret crushes.
00:01:47
Speaker 2: Important relationships, and the first time we dared to say the word boyfriend out loud. So turn on your gaitar.
00:01:59
Speaker 1: Silver Lightnings begins now.
00:02:03
Speaker 2: To kick things off. Who here remembers their very first crush.
00:02:09
Speaker 3: Well, my first crush was a guy by name of Roger, and I was working in a men's store when I was in high school. I worked twenty hours a week and Roger started coming into the store quite often, and I walked to work from my house. So he started asking me if i'd like a ride home.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: You took rides from strangers.
00:02:38
Speaker 3: Well, we'd talked about four or five times. He was my age and so I didn't see anything wrong with that, and I didn't really know what to think of him. I thought there was something there, but I didn't know. And one night he'd pulled into the driveway. We were just sitting there talking. We were out of sight of the house and that, and when he said goodbye to me, he leaned over and he kissed me on the ear.
00:03:16
Speaker 1: And I stick in your ear, no, no tongue.
00:03:23
Speaker 3: And I was so confused. I mean, I knew I was gay and I was out, and I had had had sex with other men, but I was just completely taken back. And we saw each other as much as we could. In fact, one weekend we took off and we drove up to San Francisco and just had the greatest time up there. I mean we were both underage, but in San Francisco in those days, they didn't care how old you were to serve you a dream and we just had an absolutely marvelous time. So that was my first crush. My first crush was when I was in the seventh grade Annie Camp Junior High School, Donsbur, Arkansas. I remember it very vividly, but this new boy moved to town, Billy Earlkeith, and I just thought he was so dreamy. I would just stare at him whenever he would enter a room, and he was real popular with girls and the cheerleaders and all of that. And somehow I invited him over to the house one week and for a sleepover. And it was Friday night because Saturday was the busy day at the store, because all the farmers would come into town to do their shopping, and so my mom, dad, and two brothers would go and work at the shop and I was left alone with Billy Earl. And in the morning we woke up and I remember asking him what like kissing the cheerleaders, and he said, here, let me show you, and he planted a big kiss on my lips that I remember to this day. And then we kind of toussled about in the bed for probably about and now.
00:06:01
Speaker 1: And so what did you do?
00:06:04
Speaker 3: Well, keep in mind seventh grade, that's around twelve years old, and you know things are changing, and being the first and having never seen porn or anything at that time, I didn't have too much instruction, so it was very exploratory.
00:06:33
Speaker 2: How fun?
00:06:35
Speaker 3: And did you continue to see him after that?
00:06:38
Speaker 1: I would?
00:06:39
Speaker 3: We would get together periodically after that.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you explore?
00:06:45
Speaker 3: Well, we explored each other's crevices.
00:06:50
Speaker 1: Oh, come on before, we can't.
00:06:56
Speaker 2: That just ruined the whole thing. Say what about you? We've had enough of you. My first crush was my cousin's boyfriend. His name was Cephas. He was the most handsome jit black man with this perfect body, and I would go lay my head on his lap, but I would turn my face down and nobody knew what was going on. And I can't believe now looking back at I go tang. I was real small when that happened, so I was out to myself early I just we just had to play the games with the rest of the world and date everybody the women, which was sad. But Cephus was wool What a man, what a maddic good man he was. So that was it one time in the crotch and then.
00:07:49
Speaker 1: Uh, that reminds me of a story. Mark was my next door damer. He was four years older than I was, so this probably was it in the summer that he between are his junior and senior year in high school and wherever I was seventh and eighth grade, wherever that was, well, he taught me how to suck cock, and then he also taught me how to differentiate between guys who did what we did and guys who didn't, and that you really had to, you know, kind of suss their way there. And so in a lot of ways, Mark was not only my first crush as well, but he also was a mentor. And I find now looking back that these are the type of people that I have led into my life because each time I've been in a relationship in which I really developed a crush on somebody that it's been a lasting impact and they've always invited me something about the truth about theirselves, and so I'm always interested in learning more, and I guess that's where it started from.
00:09:02
Speaker 2: And so it is.
00:09:04
Speaker 3: I can remember other crushes John Hattner. He was on the football team and had a real nice compact, muscular body, and I was taking drawing lessons at the time, and so I managed to get him to come over one day to pose for a figure drawing for me, and he took off falls clothes except for his underwear, and I drew him, but sadly, he brought a friend along with him to make sure that nothing happened.
00:09:50
Speaker 1: A smart guy.
00:09:55
Speaker 2: He couldn't hand you by himself.
00:09:57
Speaker 3: No, I think he did.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: He know it out.
00:10:01
Speaker 3: This isn't going beyond drawing. What's one significant romantic or sexual experience you had in your early years that you will always remember.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Mark, Oh, you people can't see. But the guy Bob just licked his lips and then he said, Mark.
00:10:26
Speaker 3: Well, this was soon after I had moved to San Francisco. I moved there in nineteen eighty and lived in one place for a few months, and then me and my roommates moved to another place, which was just a few blocks away from Buena Vista Park in San Francisco, which was notorious for gay cruising. And one day I was walking with my dog through a path that cut through the bushes and came into a clearing, and in the middle of the clearing was this beautiful blond young man who was sunning himself and a very skimpy bathing suit, and he stared up at me with his big blue eyes, and we struck a conversation and he went with me down to the house and we had a really nice time. You left the dog at the park, No, the dog. The dog came with you are so cruel, Bob.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: But anyway, well.
00:11:57
Speaker 3: That was a very memorable day, and you remember it, Oh yeah, somehow, I remember it well. When I was living in Laguna Beach when I was twenty years old, my mom she'd take the family down to the beach every summer for a week, and she asked me to go and find a house for us. And so I went down into a real estate office and a realtor, his name was John. He helped me and then he sent me out with one of his workers to find a house. We found it. I came back and he said, you know, stop by for coffee anytime you want. And I didn't take him up on it. I mean, he was forty five and I was twenty years old.
00:12:50
Speaker 2: Perfect.
00:12:52
Speaker 3: And during that summer, when my mom was down there, a friend of mine invited me to a party and John was there. And John invited me out to dinner the next night, and I said okay, and we went to the Berkshires in Newport Beach and we started off with shrimp cocktails, then Chateaubrion, then a Grand Marnier Sioux Fla, and John was literally trying to win my heart over by just lavishing, you know, gifts and cloth. I was about to go to Orange Coast College for the semesters, so we flew to San Francisco and bought my new school clothes at Cable Car Clothes.
00:13:49
Speaker 1: You remember all this stuff.
00:13:51
Speaker 2: Bill Tea members everything before Jesus came.
00:13:53
Speaker 3: Where was in Newport It was right across from the arches, oh sure. And then John started to not really pay much attention to business. He was too busy with me. We were having a great time, and eventually we decided that it just wasn't working out. Why there wasn't really any love on my part or there was someone who was just adoring me with things sort of.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: And what's wrong with that?
00:14:30
Speaker 2: He ran out of money?
00:14:33
Speaker 1: I mean forty five and twenty you kind of get the feeling that you know, he's kind to show you.
00:14:39
Speaker 2: Trying to buy by you.
00:14:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what just say was really true. He did run out of money, and I.
00:14:50
Speaker 2: Because you wasn't cheap ring at the ill.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: It's like the old song you had a lot of money nineteen twenty nine. You don't get a little mo market or you are such a swine. Why don't you do right like some other men?
00:15:06
Speaker 3: Do?
00:15:07
Speaker 1: Get me some money and I'll see a real soup? Is that what you you? This little gold digger you at twenty I.
00:15:17
Speaker 3: Wasn't trying to be a gold digger, but that was just an experience that I had. And one thing that really taught me because I I didn't have any money myself, was all of a sudden, I was absolutely broke, and I learned very quickly that you have to have your own money to be a person. You just can't have it slatthered on you.
00:15:47
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll go next, if you don't mind. Oh, dude, my very first time experiencing what I'd been looking for at Love was when I was at the Parliament House. Tellan Orlando, I'm standing there with my roommate from college, and I hear this yummy voice over me asking me to dance. That I turn around and look up to this handsome man, Samuel Coleman Washington, and we danced, and then I went home with him, and he went to work the next day, and I cleaned his house and emptied out all the pot because I didn't know weed was really weed. And he comes home and has a heart attack. But we dated for five awesome years. Unfortunately, drugs is what separated us, because he was vice president of a bank and doing really well, and the drugs just took over. And it was sad because I really loved him, but we had some wonderful times that I am forever indebted for him in introducing true love to me what I was expecting from it. I mean, as our relationship grew and he cleared up. But what an amazing man. And it's said that his life ended so early because we'd probably still be dating if he were living. So sad it is. It is because he was truly a He was good to me, good to me.
00:17:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do have another one. I think it was my senior year in college I came out, but before I did, I went to see a psychologist, a gay psychologist up in Minneapolis. And he's a very handsome man, and he kind of cleared up some misconceptions I had about gay people. And then he what you're not supposed to do. He invited me out for dinner, and then he took me home and he taught me some more about things to do. And I have to say he also had a lover who evidently found out about this date that he was having and came over the next morning.
00:18:09
Speaker 3: I love it.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: Oh, it was the first time I was treated to that kind of scene. I was growing up fast. But I have to tell you, this guy was hot sex and I remember that one. I don't remember his name, but I remember him.
00:18:25
Speaker 3: Now, you went to the psychologist on your own. Your parents didn't send you in.
00:18:30
Speaker 1: No, no, my parents didn't say, oh no, they wouldn't have sent me to a gay psychologist for real. This guy brought me out. Well. Moving on, what are your earliest memories of flirting?
00:18:44
Speaker 3: Ah, I kind of didn't think I flirted, but everyone else thought I did. Yes, Sometimes you don't know when you're flirting exactly exactly. It's kind of an un conscious reaction to someone you're attracted to.
00:19:05
Speaker 2: And you don't know.
00:19:07
Speaker 1: No, Wow, it wouldn't be unconscious, it would be your subconscious.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: I just become overly friendly. Okay, you just say, I just get gooddy giddy giddy, and I get quiet.
00:19:21
Speaker 1: Mmm.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: Surprisingly, I know it's hard for you to believe.
00:19:24
Speaker 1: I guess it's the first time I actually understood what the word flirting meant was, and I did it unconsciously. It was in the eighth grade and I looked around to the room. There was a kid in the other room. His name was Scott, and he was built kid and really wild one. He was the first one who took his middle finger blew me a kiss, and he did it at that point in the eighth grade. And then he called me a dirty old man. And I just in eighth grade. I just well, First of all, I thought, how does he you know that? To this day I keep looking for him, but I can never find him.
00:20:09
Speaker 2: He put the finger in the wrong hole.
00:20:13
Speaker 1: Maybe if Scott is listening out there, he knows, you know, look me up.
00:20:17
Speaker 3: Call me.
00:20:18
Speaker 1: Usually when I think it is what you're not even aware that you're flirting and somebody calls you out on it.
00:20:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's when it becomes embarrassing.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: I can't imagine you flirting.
00:20:29
Speaker 1: No, Bob is not a flirt.
00:20:31
Speaker 2: I know, Bill, I could see is a flirt. Bill's a tease. Yeah, it.
00:20:41
Speaker 3: Kind of a refined art.
00:20:43
Speaker 1: Well.
00:20:44
Speaker 3: I think where I got my flirting was basically working in a men's store, because you are flirting with your customers.
00:20:54
Speaker 1: Absolutely, can I interest you in a jockstrap? Did you ever say that at the store? Sure, you haven't picked up your jock strap yet.
00:21:04
Speaker 3: No, but I did wait on two guys and they were looking for bathing suits. So I looked up and I showed them, you know, a surfer bathing suit, you know, like you hang ten on that. Yeah, And they said to me, well, where do you put your jewels? And I no idea what they were talking about.
00:21:28
Speaker 1: They weren't family jewels. Yeah, that's very fell the shrink of the sixties, that's exactly when it was, yeah sixties. Yeah, now we referred to it as you're junk. Yeah.
00:21:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:22:00
Speaker 3: What's the most embarrassing flirt moment that you can remember?
00:22:07
Speaker 1: The Only time I've ever had an embarrassing flirt is when I'm running to the door. You know, you got to give a person of the fine. I've done it in the supermarket. I've done it, like at Gelson's in West Hollywood. I would be in a little card like we look over and I just run over a display. I have done that. I have done that.
00:22:29
Speaker 3: Okay, And do you get a reaction from the flirt?
00:22:35
Speaker 1: Sometimes or sometimes they go, oh, walk away. It can't be seen near him. He's crazy, you know, hot, but he's crazy.
00:22:45
Speaker 3: Now it's time for my current addiction.
00:22:49
Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Mick, and my current addiction are vascular twenty six inch thighs because they lead up to a vascular nine inches. That's my current addiction.
00:23:07
Speaker 3: I can't think of anything that paul an addiction? What about smoking weed? Yeah, well, smoking pot is a light lung en devor.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: I would not say smoking pot is an addiction.
00:23:25
Speaker 2: I would get not.
00:23:26
Speaker 1: No, it's a vocation.
00:23:28
Speaker 3: It's a necessity.
00:23:30
Speaker 1: There you happy?
00:23:31
Speaker 2: Okay? Before apps, how'd you know someone was gay? For me?
00:23:41
Speaker 3: It was always you glanced at someone, but it was more than a glance. It was like taking a second look at them. And that's how I discovered if someone was gay, it's called gay dar.
00:24:00
Speaker 1: Well, gata art would be sonar because eye contact is I can't think it's visual.
00:24:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I'm just spiking for myself. But you know, you just get this sense booking at someone and if you study him for any length of time, you just pick up all nuances and I just think I instinctively know that that person's gay.
00:24:31
Speaker 1: Well, I usually the opinion, well, I'm not sure. So it's always eye contact, as Bill says, And you know, the eyes of the mirrors of the soul, and you get a feeling that somebody is really interested, and then you kind of cozy up to that person and you know, and then before you know it, you're kissing. It's instinctual. It's part of it is risk because you don't know, but you have to there In doing so, you have opened yourself up, you know, and and you know that's that's part of dating, is that you know chances are it's not going to end well even if you're you know, have had ten twenty dates. Most of these things, we've all had them in our gay lives are not very long.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: And I just look at people and I don't look away. I don't say anything, but I'll just smile at you while you're going.
00:25:26
Speaker 3: What will break the eyes and cause you to say something to the person? If do they have to speak first, they wink at it.
00:25:37
Speaker 2: I wink at them, but I still don't say anything.
00:25:41
Speaker 3: I've never winked at someone.
00:25:44
Speaker 1: I just look at their crouch and they look at mine.
00:25:48
Speaker 2: Do you remember saying the word boyfriend for the first time? And was it a big deal? It would have been college here minus after No, I read in the day. We didn't do that. No, No, we just prayed and went on to the next prayer.
00:26:05
Speaker 3: We just went about our business.
00:26:08
Speaker 1: I think it was because something have to do with straight girls in high school, and you kind of went, I don't want a boyfriend.
00:26:17
Speaker 3: Boyfriends are something you have between lovers, kind of like an appetizer, an Intermetso.
00:26:24
Speaker 2: Oh see, those are tricks. Those are boyfriends.
00:26:27
Speaker 3: How many dates does it take to be a boyfriend?
00:26:31
Speaker 2: Sometimes one?
00:26:34
Speaker 1: He's the authority on it.
00:26:36
Speaker 3: No, I would say three, three, I'm easy And now a short word from me, make What are your tips on dating for a gay man who's just starting up.
00:26:55
Speaker 1: Go with what you like. If you're going to pick somebody, up, do it in a safe place, but you have to be really attracted to that person. And if you're just coming out, then you're going to look for somebody who has a little more experience than you, probably a lot more experience than you, because you're going to have to learn something and that's how you start. But you kind of have to look for the right person, not somebody who's going to like abuse you or somebody who's going to take advantage of you, because there's a lot of that in the gay community, particularly with predators, and they're not necessarily older men. They can be much younger. That's the advice of it. Plus also read The Joy of Gay Sex or start watching as much porn as possible.
00:27:50
Speaker 2: I do.
00:27:53
Speaker 3: Are you dating now? Why or why not? And what does dating look like to you?
00:28:00
Speaker 2: Now?
00:28:01
Speaker 3: I am not dating. I feel like right now, at this point in my life, my life is so full. If I date someone, I feel an obligation to spend a certain amount of time with that person, and right now I don't feel like I had that time to spend.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: You don't neither do I.
00:28:31
Speaker 1: I would say that I don't think dating as we used to see it exists anymore. For people, no anybody today today's dating scene. If you go in the dating scene, to me, it's you work on getting together with a guy and then maybe or maybe not, it'll happen. And so you kind of have a You have to take a more objective stance. You can't be subjected. You have to say, well, it didn't work out the last time.
00:29:01
Speaker 2: With the dating. Now, there's so many stories that are made up, and I ask a lot more questions of people now. The main things I say is I need to see your face. That's where it starts, because a body could be anybody's body, but I want to make sure you're connected to that name that you're coming from. For me, then that's why I like facetiming, because of all the AI and the fake stuff. And I tell them, I says, I don't have time.
00:29:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, gosh, when you think about it today, it is so different than when we were growing up. I mean, we went on actual dates.
00:29:45
Speaker 1: They used to call those dinner dates. Yeah, and they were or you were invited. Somebody said, well, I'm going to take you to friends for dinner. I'd like you to meet them or something like that. That's sort of the social scene in Hollywood, and so I can't tell you the number of dinners I've gone to.
00:30:06
Speaker 3: I remember in the sixties and the seventies, the main way that I went out to pick up people was bars. Yeah, that was the mainstay. And the beauty of that you could they were right in front of you. You could tell that they were real, and they talked to you, and you could find out in a nano second whether this is going to work or not. But I mean, that was my whole I mean, I hate to admit that my whole time picking up people was just going to bars, but that's the way it was.
00:30:41
Speaker 2: It was wonderful we didn't have all the internet mess right exactly.
00:30:45
Speaker 1: And accept that. You know, I'll argue the other side just to point out the fact that you know, when you're like on one of the apps and you know, you're free to ask how big is your dick, you know, and then they'll usually send you a picture next to a beer can, so you know you can relate.
00:31:04
Speaker 3: And I think another thing that's really changed is, yes, young people go to bars these days, but they go to bars to socialize and then they go home and they get on the internet to pick somebody up.
00:31:18
Speaker 2: And make sure you look like that picture. That's all I say. Yeah, But I love being honest about the age thing because when I was the younger one, I always wanted to see the person because the age didn't bother me. It was just like, do you look your age? I just wanted that honesty. Is this what you look like today? Because that looks like an old black and white picture that was touched up. Give me the face, and my thing is do you like to make out? I'm gonna make out freak, so gotta have lips. And then.
00:32:02
Speaker 1: Usually I just kind of snuggle up to the I was going to say cuddle.
00:32:07
Speaker 2: I was very goo.
00:32:08
Speaker 1: I just kind of go bring myself up and see if their lips mean mine, and then we get started. See we go right for kissy face. Yeah. I don't go for embracing anything that comes later.
00:32:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it follows in order.
00:32:23
Speaker 1: You got to plant that kiss, even if it's a French one. Even oh, even if it's a French one. Eat that's even better. If it's a French right away or or they you know, they kind of just wet your entire mouth with their tongue and then they go for your face. Oh yeah, eat your chin, you'll go for your neck and eyes.
00:32:46
Speaker 3: But then there's the bad ones that there miles, you're like opecting this romantic kiss and you just go bye bye bye, and then a tongue comes out and the linking.
00:33:03
Speaker 1: Oh oh, well, you know.
00:33:07
Speaker 3: Anyways, what has surprised you or changed your perspective about long term relationships as you've gotten older?
00:33:20
Speaker 2: I don't have one.
00:33:23
Speaker 3: Bill, I've learned that they don't work. Really, Why haven't you had long term relationships? Yes, but my last one ended up on such a sour note that it's just soured me for the entire relationship thing. I've been I've had two long term relationships, one for five years and one for sixteen years, and the way they've ended, I've been single now for thirty years.
00:34:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had I guess you could say three extensive relationships. The longest one was in the middle and that was for twenty five years. My perspective since that time, it's a lot of work. You got to know more about the person before you jump in, because things don't always appear to what they first seem to be, and you've got to understand that the person opposite from you is coming from who knows where, and they've got their own issues in life, and that what happens is is their issues become your issues, and your issues become his, and you have to start working it out together, and that can take a long time. Honestly, I haven't really looked for one, especially now since I've had to deal in the last ten years with a chronic illness. You know, the most important person right now is me. I have to take care of meat, because if I don't take care of me, how can I be of any any enjoyment from another person. So I look at relationships now differently and that it doesn't necessarily have to be a relationship that lasts in years. It can last just a few weeks. It's fine with me. You know, if you're looking for a long term relationship, what I would recommend get a dog, Yes, because a dog's love is unconditional. Yes, And just remember that to them, you are the most important thing in their life. That's why they follow you into the bathroom. They want to be with you all the time. They love you, and they are so keyed into your emotion that you don't even realize how intelligent they are. And you know, also understand that you will outlive them, So there is going to be grief. But that's the way it is in all relationships. All relationships at some point end, whether through death or whether when you just say it's time to call it a day.
00:36:27
Speaker 2: Yep, it's true. That's real good, Nick, Yeah, really good. So burial.
00:36:33
Speaker 1: Real yeah. But you know I'm also a slut. Just remember that.
00:36:37
Speaker 2: Oh no, we haven't forgotten.
00:36:39
Speaker 3: That's an important part my relationship. My long term was all I really wanted was someone to grow old with and trust. And when that trust broke and that last year that we were together, it just pulled the rug out from underneath me and put relationships on the bottom of my list. I think as we get older, we find that our extended families replace part of what we're looking for in a long term relationship.
00:37:24
Speaker 2: Never lose the friendship connection because there your family is going to be there if you get slapped in the face and beat down. So to conclude, what would you say is the silver lining about crushes, romance, and partnerships in the world today.
00:37:40
Speaker 1: I would say, have them, have them as much as possible, whether it's great or whether it's bad. You might have a little bit of fun, and like I said, you may learn something.
00:37:51
Speaker 3: And I say, go for it. Enjoy the crushes, enjoy the relationships, but just know that might come to an end. But these are the things that really make life great for us. These are the up parts to me for our lives, So don't try to avoid them, jump in and have as much fun as you can. I suck at that, yes, and having been through a lot over the course of our lives, we kind of know what to expect and we can empathize with younger people who are facing issues as they're growing up, and we can become their mentors.
00:38:41
Speaker 2: I'm one of the young people. I'm claiming it still, Oh okay.
00:38:49
Speaker 3: Silver Linings is a production of Iheart's Ruby Studios and The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts Bill Lyons.
00:38:58
Speaker 2: Robert Reeves, and Jesse Martin. Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser, Supervising producer Kelly Kyle, Story production Ryan Amador, with post production by Eric Zeiler Sea in two weeks.
00:39:21
Speaker 3: My whole outlook towards religion was through their art and music. To this day, I believe that Bird was an angel.
00:39:35
Speaker 2: The big people up in the pulpit they're human too.
Speaker 1: Ruby.
00:00:07
Speaker 2: See that's a trick. Those are boyfriends.
00:00:11
Speaker 3: Yes, young people go to bars these days, but they go to bars to socialize, and then they go home and they get on the internet to pick somebody up.
00:00:21
Speaker 1: I just look at their cross and they look at mine.
00:00:25
Speaker 2: From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles and steamy Palm Springs, California, it's Mick Robert Bill just say, and this is silver lightning.
00:00:38
Speaker 3: With the old days. Well, hello again, lovers. Bill, are you feeling frisky?
00:00:49
Speaker 2: That can only mean one.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: Thing and I'm already blushing.
00:00:54
Speaker 3: Today's episode is about first crushes, romance, heartbreak, and relationships.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: And flirting back when it required nerve, eye contact.
00:01:06
Speaker 3: And a decent mustache.
00:01:09
Speaker 1: Growing up, gay crushes weren't exactly simple at the time.
00:01:14
Speaker 3: You didn't know what you were feeling.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: You just knew your stomach flipped when a certain someone walked.
00:01:20
Speaker 3: By, and you tried very hard not to stare in the locker room. Speak for yourself, I am.
00:01:31
Speaker 1: When we got started, there were no apps.
00:01:34
Speaker 3: No swiping lift, no profile pictures.
00:01:39
Speaker 2: Just vibes and energy. Irl.
00:01:44
Speaker 1: So today we're going back to secret crushes.
00:01:47
Speaker 2: Important relationships, and the first time we dared to say the word boyfriend out loud. So turn on your gaitar.
00:01:59
Speaker 1: Silver Lightnings begins now.
00:02:03
Speaker 2: To kick things off. Who here remembers their very first crush.
00:02:09
Speaker 3: Well, my first crush was a guy by name of Roger, and I was working in a men's store when I was in high school. I worked twenty hours a week and Roger started coming into the store quite often, and I walked to work from my house. So he started asking me if i'd like a ride home.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: You took rides from strangers.
00:02:38
Speaker 3: Well, we'd talked about four or five times. He was my age and so I didn't see anything wrong with that, and I didn't really know what to think of him. I thought there was something there, but I didn't know. And one night he'd pulled into the driveway. We were just sitting there talking. We were out of sight of the house and that, and when he said goodbye to me, he leaned over and he kissed me on the ear.
00:03:16
Speaker 1: And I stick in your ear, no, no tongue.
00:03:23
Speaker 3: And I was so confused. I mean, I knew I was gay and I was out, and I had had had sex with other men, but I was just completely taken back. And we saw each other as much as we could. In fact, one weekend we took off and we drove up to San Francisco and just had the greatest time up there. I mean we were both underage, but in San Francisco in those days, they didn't care how old you were to serve you a dream and we just had an absolutely marvelous time. So that was my first crush. My first crush was when I was in the seventh grade Annie Camp Junior High School, Donsbur, Arkansas. I remember it very vividly, but this new boy moved to town, Billy Earlkeith, and I just thought he was so dreamy. I would just stare at him whenever he would enter a room, and he was real popular with girls and the cheerleaders and all of that. And somehow I invited him over to the house one week and for a sleepover. And it was Friday night because Saturday was the busy day at the store, because all the farmers would come into town to do their shopping, and so my mom, dad, and two brothers would go and work at the shop and I was left alone with Billy Earl. And in the morning we woke up and I remember asking him what like kissing the cheerleaders, and he said, here, let me show you, and he planted a big kiss on my lips that I remember to this day. And then we kind of toussled about in the bed for probably about and now.
00:06:01
Speaker 1: And so what did you do?
00:06:04
Speaker 3: Well, keep in mind seventh grade, that's around twelve years old, and you know things are changing, and being the first and having never seen porn or anything at that time, I didn't have too much instruction, so it was very exploratory.
00:06:33
Speaker 2: How fun?
00:06:35
Speaker 3: And did you continue to see him after that?
00:06:38
Speaker 1: I would?
00:06:39
Speaker 3: We would get together periodically after that.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you explore?
00:06:45
Speaker 3: Well, we explored each other's crevices.
00:06:50
Speaker 1: Oh, come on before, we can't.
00:06:56
Speaker 2: That just ruined the whole thing. Say what about you? We've had enough of you. My first crush was my cousin's boyfriend. His name was Cephas. He was the most handsome jit black man with this perfect body, and I would go lay my head on his lap, but I would turn my face down and nobody knew what was going on. And I can't believe now looking back at I go tang. I was real small when that happened, so I was out to myself early I just we just had to play the games with the rest of the world and date everybody the women, which was sad. But Cephus was wool What a man, what a maddic good man he was. So that was it one time in the crotch and then.
00:07:49
Speaker 1: Uh, that reminds me of a story. Mark was my next door damer. He was four years older than I was, so this probably was it in the summer that he between are his junior and senior year in high school and wherever I was seventh and eighth grade, wherever that was, well, he taught me how to suck cock, and then he also taught me how to differentiate between guys who did what we did and guys who didn't, and that you really had to, you know, kind of suss their way there. And so in a lot of ways, Mark was not only my first crush as well, but he also was a mentor. And I find now looking back that these are the type of people that I have led into my life because each time I've been in a relationship in which I really developed a crush on somebody that it's been a lasting impact and they've always invited me something about the truth about theirselves, and so I'm always interested in learning more, and I guess that's where it started from.
00:09:02
Speaker 2: And so it is.
00:09:04
Speaker 3: I can remember other crushes John Hattner. He was on the football team and had a real nice compact, muscular body, and I was taking drawing lessons at the time, and so I managed to get him to come over one day to pose for a figure drawing for me, and he took off falls clothes except for his underwear, and I drew him, but sadly, he brought a friend along with him to make sure that nothing happened.
00:09:50
Speaker 1: A smart guy.
00:09:55
Speaker 2: He couldn't hand you by himself.
00:09:57
Speaker 3: No, I think he did.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: He know it out.
00:10:01
Speaker 3: This isn't going beyond drawing. What's one significant romantic or sexual experience you had in your early years that you will always remember.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Mark, Oh, you people can't see. But the guy Bob just licked his lips and then he said, Mark.
00:10:26
Speaker 3: Well, this was soon after I had moved to San Francisco. I moved there in nineteen eighty and lived in one place for a few months, and then me and my roommates moved to another place, which was just a few blocks away from Buena Vista Park in San Francisco, which was notorious for gay cruising. And one day I was walking with my dog through a path that cut through the bushes and came into a clearing, and in the middle of the clearing was this beautiful blond young man who was sunning himself and a very skimpy bathing suit, and he stared up at me with his big blue eyes, and we struck a conversation and he went with me down to the house and we had a really nice time. You left the dog at the park, No, the dog. The dog came with you are so cruel, Bob.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: But anyway, well.
00:11:57
Speaker 3: That was a very memorable day, and you remember it, Oh yeah, somehow, I remember it well. When I was living in Laguna Beach when I was twenty years old, my mom she'd take the family down to the beach every summer for a week, and she asked me to go and find a house for us. And so I went down into a real estate office and a realtor, his name was John. He helped me and then he sent me out with one of his workers to find a house. We found it. I came back and he said, you know, stop by for coffee anytime you want. And I didn't take him up on it. I mean, he was forty five and I was twenty years old.
00:12:50
Speaker 2: Perfect.
00:12:52
Speaker 3: And during that summer, when my mom was down there, a friend of mine invited me to a party and John was there. And John invited me out to dinner the next night, and I said okay, and we went to the Berkshires in Newport Beach and we started off with shrimp cocktails, then Chateaubrion, then a Grand Marnier Sioux Fla, and John was literally trying to win my heart over by just lavishing, you know, gifts and cloth. I was about to go to Orange Coast College for the semesters, so we flew to San Francisco and bought my new school clothes at Cable Car Clothes.
00:13:49
Speaker 1: You remember all this stuff.
00:13:51
Speaker 2: Bill Tea members everything before Jesus came.
00:13:53
Speaker 3: Where was in Newport It was right across from the arches, oh sure. And then John started to not really pay much attention to business. He was too busy with me. We were having a great time, and eventually we decided that it just wasn't working out. Why there wasn't really any love on my part or there was someone who was just adoring me with things sort of.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: And what's wrong with that?
00:14:30
Speaker 2: He ran out of money?
00:14:33
Speaker 1: I mean forty five and twenty you kind of get the feeling that you know, he's kind to show you.
00:14:39
Speaker 2: Trying to buy by you.
00:14:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what just say was really true. He did run out of money, and I.
00:14:50
Speaker 2: Because you wasn't cheap ring at the ill.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: It's like the old song you had a lot of money nineteen twenty nine. You don't get a little mo market or you are such a swine. Why don't you do right like some other men?
00:15:06
Speaker 3: Do?
00:15:07
Speaker 1: Get me some money and I'll see a real soup? Is that what you you? This little gold digger you at twenty I.
00:15:17
Speaker 3: Wasn't trying to be a gold digger, but that was just an experience that I had. And one thing that really taught me because I I didn't have any money myself, was all of a sudden, I was absolutely broke, and I learned very quickly that you have to have your own money to be a person. You just can't have it slatthered on you.
00:15:47
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll go next, if you don't mind. Oh, dude, my very first time experiencing what I'd been looking for at Love was when I was at the Parliament House. Tellan Orlando, I'm standing there with my roommate from college, and I hear this yummy voice over me asking me to dance. That I turn around and look up to this handsome man, Samuel Coleman Washington, and we danced, and then I went home with him, and he went to work the next day, and I cleaned his house and emptied out all the pot because I didn't know weed was really weed. And he comes home and has a heart attack. But we dated for five awesome years. Unfortunately, drugs is what separated us, because he was vice president of a bank and doing really well, and the drugs just took over. And it was sad because I really loved him, but we had some wonderful times that I am forever indebted for him in introducing true love to me what I was expecting from it. I mean, as our relationship grew and he cleared up. But what an amazing man. And it's said that his life ended so early because we'd probably still be dating if he were living. So sad it is. It is because he was truly a He was good to me, good to me.
00:17:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do have another one. I think it was my senior year in college I came out, but before I did, I went to see a psychologist, a gay psychologist up in Minneapolis. And he's a very handsome man, and he kind of cleared up some misconceptions I had about gay people. And then he what you're not supposed to do. He invited me out for dinner, and then he took me home and he taught me some more about things to do. And I have to say he also had a lover who evidently found out about this date that he was having and came over the next morning.
00:18:09
Speaker 3: I love it.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: Oh, it was the first time I was treated to that kind of scene. I was growing up fast. But I have to tell you, this guy was hot sex and I remember that one. I don't remember his name, but I remember him.
00:18:25
Speaker 3: Now, you went to the psychologist on your own. Your parents didn't send you in.
00:18:30
Speaker 1: No, no, my parents didn't say, oh no, they wouldn't have sent me to a gay psychologist for real. This guy brought me out. Well. Moving on, what are your earliest memories of flirting?
00:18:44
Speaker 3: Ah, I kind of didn't think I flirted, but everyone else thought I did. Yes, Sometimes you don't know when you're flirting exactly exactly. It's kind of an un conscious reaction to someone you're attracted to.
00:19:05
Speaker 2: And you don't know.
00:19:07
Speaker 1: No, Wow, it wouldn't be unconscious, it would be your subconscious.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: I just become overly friendly. Okay, you just say, I just get gooddy giddy giddy, and I get quiet.
00:19:21
Speaker 1: Mmm.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: Surprisingly, I know it's hard for you to believe.
00:19:24
Speaker 1: I guess it's the first time I actually understood what the word flirting meant was, and I did it unconsciously. It was in the eighth grade and I looked around to the room. There was a kid in the other room. His name was Scott, and he was built kid and really wild one. He was the first one who took his middle finger blew me a kiss, and he did it at that point in the eighth grade. And then he called me a dirty old man. And I just in eighth grade. I just well, First of all, I thought, how does he you know that? To this day I keep looking for him, but I can never find him.
00:20:09
Speaker 2: He put the finger in the wrong hole.
00:20:13
Speaker 1: Maybe if Scott is listening out there, he knows, you know, look me up.
00:20:17
Speaker 3: Call me.
00:20:18
Speaker 1: Usually when I think it is what you're not even aware that you're flirting and somebody calls you out on it.
00:20:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's when it becomes embarrassing.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: I can't imagine you flirting.
00:20:29
Speaker 1: No, Bob is not a flirt.
00:20:31
Speaker 2: I know, Bill, I could see is a flirt. Bill's a tease. Yeah, it.
00:20:41
Speaker 3: Kind of a refined art.
00:20:43
Speaker 1: Well.
00:20:44
Speaker 3: I think where I got my flirting was basically working in a men's store, because you are flirting with your customers.
00:20:54
Speaker 1: Absolutely, can I interest you in a jockstrap? Did you ever say that at the store? Sure, you haven't picked up your jock strap yet.
00:21:04
Speaker 3: No, but I did wait on two guys and they were looking for bathing suits. So I looked up and I showed them, you know, a surfer bathing suit, you know, like you hang ten on that. Yeah, And they said to me, well, where do you put your jewels? And I no idea what they were talking about.
00:21:28
Speaker 1: They weren't family jewels. Yeah, that's very fell the shrink of the sixties, that's exactly when it was, yeah sixties. Yeah, now we referred to it as you're junk. Yeah.
00:21:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:22:00
Speaker 3: What's the most embarrassing flirt moment that you can remember?
00:22:07
Speaker 1: The Only time I've ever had an embarrassing flirt is when I'm running to the door. You know, you got to give a person of the fine. I've done it in the supermarket. I've done it, like at Gelson's in West Hollywood. I would be in a little card like we look over and I just run over a display. I have done that. I have done that.
00:22:29
Speaker 3: Okay, And do you get a reaction from the flirt?
00:22:35
Speaker 1: Sometimes or sometimes they go, oh, walk away. It can't be seen near him. He's crazy, you know, hot, but he's crazy.
00:22:45
Speaker 3: Now it's time for my current addiction.
00:22:49
Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Mick, and my current addiction are vascular twenty six inch thighs because they lead up to a vascular nine inches. That's my current addiction.
00:23:07
Speaker 3: I can't think of anything that paul an addiction? What about smoking weed? Yeah, well, smoking pot is a light lung en devor.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: I would not say smoking pot is an addiction.
00:23:25
Speaker 2: I would get not.
00:23:26
Speaker 1: No, it's a vocation.
00:23:28
Speaker 3: It's a necessity.
00:23:30
Speaker 1: There you happy?
00:23:31
Speaker 2: Okay? Before apps, how'd you know someone was gay? For me?
00:23:41
Speaker 3: It was always you glanced at someone, but it was more than a glance. It was like taking a second look at them. And that's how I discovered if someone was gay, it's called gay dar.
00:24:00
Speaker 1: Well, gata art would be sonar because eye contact is I can't think it's visual.
00:24:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I'm just spiking for myself. But you know, you just get this sense booking at someone and if you study him for any length of time, you just pick up all nuances and I just think I instinctively know that that person's gay.
00:24:31
Speaker 1: Well, I usually the opinion, well, I'm not sure. So it's always eye contact, as Bill says, And you know, the eyes of the mirrors of the soul, and you get a feeling that somebody is really interested, and then you kind of cozy up to that person and you know, and then before you know it, you're kissing. It's instinctual. It's part of it is risk because you don't know, but you have to there In doing so, you have opened yourself up, you know, and and you know that's that's part of dating, is that you know chances are it's not going to end well even if you're you know, have had ten twenty dates. Most of these things, we've all had them in our gay lives are not very long.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: And I just look at people and I don't look away. I don't say anything, but I'll just smile at you while you're going.
00:25:26
Speaker 3: What will break the eyes and cause you to say something to the person? If do they have to speak first, they wink at it.
00:25:37
Speaker 2: I wink at them, but I still don't say anything.
00:25:41
Speaker 3: I've never winked at someone.
00:25:44
Speaker 1: I just look at their crouch and they look at mine.
00:25:48
Speaker 2: Do you remember saying the word boyfriend for the first time? And was it a big deal? It would have been college here minus after No, I read in the day. We didn't do that. No, No, we just prayed and went on to the next prayer.
00:26:05
Speaker 3: We just went about our business.
00:26:08
Speaker 1: I think it was because something have to do with straight girls in high school, and you kind of went, I don't want a boyfriend.
00:26:17
Speaker 3: Boyfriends are something you have between lovers, kind of like an appetizer, an Intermetso.
00:26:24
Speaker 2: Oh see, those are tricks. Those are boyfriends.
00:26:27
Speaker 3: How many dates does it take to be a boyfriend?
00:26:31
Speaker 2: Sometimes one?
00:26:34
Speaker 1: He's the authority on it.
00:26:36
Speaker 3: No, I would say three, three, I'm easy And now a short word from me, make What are your tips on dating for a gay man who's just starting up.
00:26:55
Speaker 1: Go with what you like. If you're going to pick somebody, up, do it in a safe place, but you have to be really attracted to that person. And if you're just coming out, then you're going to look for somebody who has a little more experience than you, probably a lot more experience than you, because you're going to have to learn something and that's how you start. But you kind of have to look for the right person, not somebody who's going to like abuse you or somebody who's going to take advantage of you, because there's a lot of that in the gay community, particularly with predators, and they're not necessarily older men. They can be much younger. That's the advice of it. Plus also read The Joy of Gay Sex or start watching as much porn as possible.
00:27:50
Speaker 2: I do.
00:27:53
Speaker 3: Are you dating now? Why or why not? And what does dating look like to you?
00:28:00
Speaker 2: Now?
00:28:01
Speaker 3: I am not dating. I feel like right now, at this point in my life, my life is so full. If I date someone, I feel an obligation to spend a certain amount of time with that person, and right now I don't feel like I had that time to spend.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: You don't neither do I.
00:28:31
Speaker 1: I would say that I don't think dating as we used to see it exists anymore. For people, no anybody today today's dating scene. If you go in the dating scene, to me, it's you work on getting together with a guy and then maybe or maybe not, it'll happen. And so you kind of have a You have to take a more objective stance. You can't be subjected. You have to say, well, it didn't work out the last time.
00:29:01
Speaker 2: With the dating. Now, there's so many stories that are made up, and I ask a lot more questions of people now. The main things I say is I need to see your face. That's where it starts, because a body could be anybody's body, but I want to make sure you're connected to that name that you're coming from. For me, then that's why I like facetiming, because of all the AI and the fake stuff. And I tell them, I says, I don't have time.
00:29:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, gosh, when you think about it today, it is so different than when we were growing up. I mean, we went on actual dates.
00:29:45
Speaker 1: They used to call those dinner dates. Yeah, and they were or you were invited. Somebody said, well, I'm going to take you to friends for dinner. I'd like you to meet them or something like that. That's sort of the social scene in Hollywood, and so I can't tell you the number of dinners I've gone to.
00:30:06
Speaker 3: I remember in the sixties and the seventies, the main way that I went out to pick up people was bars. Yeah, that was the mainstay. And the beauty of that you could they were right in front of you. You could tell that they were real, and they talked to you, and you could find out in a nano second whether this is going to work or not. But I mean, that was my whole I mean, I hate to admit that my whole time picking up people was just going to bars, but that's the way it was.
00:30:41
Speaker 2: It was wonderful we didn't have all the internet mess right exactly.
00:30:45
Speaker 1: And accept that. You know, I'll argue the other side just to point out the fact that you know, when you're like on one of the apps and you know, you're free to ask how big is your dick, you know, and then they'll usually send you a picture next to a beer can, so you know you can relate.
00:31:04
Speaker 3: And I think another thing that's really changed is, yes, young people go to bars these days, but they go to bars to socialize and then they go home and they get on the internet to pick somebody up.
00:31:18
Speaker 2: And make sure you look like that picture. That's all I say. Yeah, But I love being honest about the age thing because when I was the younger one, I always wanted to see the person because the age didn't bother me. It was just like, do you look your age? I just wanted that honesty. Is this what you look like today? Because that looks like an old black and white picture that was touched up. Give me the face, and my thing is do you like to make out? I'm gonna make out freak, so gotta have lips. And then.
00:32:02
Speaker 1: Usually I just kind of snuggle up to the I was going to say cuddle.
00:32:07
Speaker 2: I was very goo.
00:32:08
Speaker 1: I just kind of go bring myself up and see if their lips mean mine, and then we get started. See we go right for kissy face. Yeah. I don't go for embracing anything that comes later.
00:32:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it follows in order.
00:32:23
Speaker 1: You got to plant that kiss, even if it's a French one. Even oh, even if it's a French one. Eat that's even better. If it's a French right away or or they you know, they kind of just wet your entire mouth with their tongue and then they go for your face. Oh yeah, eat your chin, you'll go for your neck and eyes.
00:32:46
Speaker 3: But then there's the bad ones that there miles, you're like opecting this romantic kiss and you just go bye bye bye, and then a tongue comes out and the linking.
00:33:03
Speaker 1: Oh oh, well, you know.
00:33:07
Speaker 3: Anyways, what has surprised you or changed your perspective about long term relationships as you've gotten older?
00:33:20
Speaker 2: I don't have one.
00:33:23
Speaker 3: Bill, I've learned that they don't work. Really, Why haven't you had long term relationships? Yes, but my last one ended up on such a sour note that it's just soured me for the entire relationship thing. I've been I've had two long term relationships, one for five years and one for sixteen years, and the way they've ended, I've been single now for thirty years.
00:34:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had I guess you could say three extensive relationships. The longest one was in the middle and that was for twenty five years. My perspective since that time, it's a lot of work. You got to know more about the person before you jump in, because things don't always appear to what they first seem to be, and you've got to understand that the person opposite from you is coming from who knows where, and they've got their own issues in life, and that what happens is is their issues become your issues, and your issues become his, and you have to start working it out together, and that can take a long time. Honestly, I haven't really looked for one, especially now since I've had to deal in the last ten years with a chronic illness. You know, the most important person right now is me. I have to take care of meat, because if I don't take care of me, how can I be of any any enjoyment from another person. So I look at relationships now differently and that it doesn't necessarily have to be a relationship that lasts in years. It can last just a few weeks. It's fine with me. You know, if you're looking for a long term relationship, what I would recommend get a dog, Yes, because a dog's love is unconditional. Yes, And just remember that to them, you are the most important thing in their life. That's why they follow you into the bathroom. They want to be with you all the time. They love you, and they are so keyed into your emotion that you don't even realize how intelligent they are. And you know, also understand that you will outlive them, So there is going to be grief. But that's the way it is in all relationships. All relationships at some point end, whether through death or whether when you just say it's time to call it a day.
00:36:27
Speaker 2: Yep, it's true. That's real good, Nick, Yeah, really good. So burial.
00:36:33
Speaker 1: Real yeah. But you know I'm also a slut. Just remember that.
00:36:37
Speaker 2: Oh no, we haven't forgotten.
00:36:39
Speaker 3: That's an important part my relationship. My long term was all I really wanted was someone to grow old with and trust. And when that trust broke and that last year that we were together, it just pulled the rug out from underneath me and put relationships on the bottom of my list. I think as we get older, we find that our extended families replace part of what we're looking for in a long term relationship.
00:37:24
Speaker 2: Never lose the friendship connection because there your family is going to be there if you get slapped in the face and beat down. So to conclude, what would you say is the silver lining about crushes, romance, and partnerships in the world today.
00:37:40
Speaker 1: I would say, have them, have them as much as possible, whether it's great or whether it's bad. You might have a little bit of fun, and like I said, you may learn something.
00:37:51
Speaker 3: And I say, go for it. Enjoy the crushes, enjoy the relationships, but just know that might come to an end. But these are the things that really make life great for us. These are the up parts to me for our lives, So don't try to avoid them, jump in and have as much fun as you can. I suck at that, yes, and having been through a lot over the course of our lives, we kind of know what to expect and we can empathize with younger people who are facing issues as they're growing up, and we can become their mentors.
00:38:41
Speaker 2: I'm one of the young people. I'm claiming it still, Oh okay.
00:38:49
Speaker 3: Silver Linings is a production of Iheart's Ruby Studios and The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts Bill Lyons.
00:38:58
Speaker 2: Robert Reeves, and Jesse Martin. Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser, Supervising producer Kelly Kyle, Story production Ryan Amador, with post production by Eric Zeiler Sea in two weeks.
00:39:21
Speaker 3: My whole outlook towards religion was through their art and music. To this day, I believe that Bird was an angel.
00:39:35
Speaker 2: The big people up in the pulpit they're human too.
