WEBVTT
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Welcome to another shift of on-call sysadmin with Brett and Brett.
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Each week we explore trends, security threats, and technology decisions shaping today's businesses.
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This podcast is sponsored by Harvest IT Solutions, a trusted MSP helping organizations get more from technology with less stress.
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A couple of things we're going to look at today.
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was FBI's job page was hacked by shiny hunters.
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We've seen them a few times over the last couple of weeks.
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AI may not be taking our jobs after all.
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And forget everything we told you about Copilot PC a few weeks ago and much more.
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Well, did you see this from DoorDash?
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We're about to get as convenient as convenient can be.
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Instead of having to go through a menu and select what you need, you can just iMessage the DoorDash AI chatbot and they'll order everything for you.
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Or Android users.
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Yeah.
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I guess they're going to have to wait a little bit longer.
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Or this will never come to fruition and they'll never get it.
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True, Yeah, I see no way this could possibly go wrong.
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Oh man.
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So will you just.
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text the thing what you're feeling and it picks what it thinks it wants for you?
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I guess.
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Well, or maybe you just tell it, hey, add bread to my shopping list and it maybe knows what you ordered previously.
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And I don't know.
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It sounds like this is in beta right now and you got to be on a waiting list to get access to it.
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But gosh, it's about
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I don't know, because if you have to chat back and forth with it, I mean.
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That's true.
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I'd be interested in trying it just to see what I get.
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Yeah, what's the experience like?
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Yeah, I would love to just say, hey, pick something for me to eat and see what shows up at the door.
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Yeah, I am indecisive.
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So just like I'm feeling
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I don't know, some kind of pizza dish.
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Surprise me.
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Yeah.
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I would actually do that every now and then, I think, just to spice it up.
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sign up for that waiting list.
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Yeah.
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Well, I guess you talked about this.
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Something's coming early.
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Speaking of something that's coming a little bit early.
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You talked about this last week, the week before.
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Yeah, the new Google Books.
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I think we kind of posed some questions, and I think everybody else posed some questions as far as, what does that mean for Chrome OS and Chromebooks?
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And Google dropped some new information on that.
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I think there's still a lot of open-ended questions about it, but a little bit of clarity.
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So they're saying that many of the newest Chromebook devices will be eligible to transition over to Google Book OS at some point.
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And I guess let's back up.
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That's probably one of the first questions is what's the history of Chrome OS?
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And it kind of sounds like that's going away.
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Google Book is the future, which I still don't like that name.
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Chrome OS is better.
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And I feel like if they wanted to change the name, Google Book was not the right path.
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I agree with you.
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It sounds like it's a toy.
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Yeah.
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But I mean, I guess they just had to have their name in there to make sure that you knew this is a Google thing.
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Yeah.
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So.
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But they also they're also saying that I guess Chromebooks have historically had a 10 year support life cycle.
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And that is going to be cut short with this transition.
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So instead of
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So if you bought a brand new Chromebook today, you would expect until 2036 to have support.
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Well, they're saying Chromebooks as a whole will end support in 2034.
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So that's essentially cutting off two years on your latest Chromebooks that you purchased.
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Yeah, I mean, that's a long time, but just to be honest with you, Chromebooks have not historically
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been the model of durability and longevity.
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So I'd be really surprised if any Chromebooks made it to 2034 anyway.
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Yeah, but I mean, that was kind of the point of them, right?
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I mean, their main market was education and you gave it to students because you knew that they were going to throw it around and not care about it and they were cheap enough to replace.
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Yeah, So what's going to happen when you're
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Done with Chrome OS.
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What do people do then?
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So there's still some, I guess, unanswered questions there.
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They're saying that the management capabilities for Google Books is not coming out until the end of 2027.
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So I guess essentially Google Books as they stand now until the end of next year is strictly a consumer product because you can't manage it.
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But there's going to be some sort of transition path or upgrade path from a Chrome OS Chromebook to a, I guess, Google Book OS on the same hardware as long as it's new enough.
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But they're also, they're saying something about the licensing is going to be different.
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So if you update your Chromebook to Google Book OS or buy a new machine,
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it's going to be a whole new license separate from what has existed for Chrome Education and Enterprise licenses.
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So they haven't really released any information on what the licensing looks like yet, but they said it's going to be different.
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That's really interesting.
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I would hope that they would have some sort of trade-in system where if you've got an existing device, you'd be able to
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migrate that license over to the new management portal, the new administration platform.
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But time will tell, I guess.
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Yeah, I would hope so.
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And it's kind of odd.
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I guess they're, I don't know, the initial announcement for Google Books is these like higher end Chromebooks, if you will.
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So I don't know, everybody's, I guess, initial thought on Google Book was that it's an elevated hardware platform.
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Right.
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That's what I thought.
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But I guess that's just their introduction to the new OS and the new platform.
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And then they're going to dial it back, once people get familiar with it and they develop it enough.
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Yeah, that was my thought too.
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I mean, I guess it's not uncommon for a company to launch a flagship product first and then fill in the rest of the stack a little bit later on.
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But yeah, I was with you.
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I kind of thought, hey, this is going to be the new high-end version of Chromebook.
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But it seems like
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The Chromebook is not going to live on.
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Yeah.
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I'm interested to see if it's going to have that same glow bar on all models, even the low end ones.
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Because again, I thought that was a premium feature.
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And I guess it might follow their Pixel phone lineup, because I think the, what do they call it, their new highlight feature on the Pixel phones, I think that's restricted to the Pro models, I want to say.
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So maybe that's how they work it in.
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Yeah, I imagine that they're going to have to cut costs somewhere in order to get it, down to 1/3 of what the Google Books are today is kind of what you traditionally paid for a Chrome OS laptop or a Chromebook.
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But even Pixelbook or Pixel OS would have been such a better name.
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That would have been way better.
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Oh, I like that.
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Hey, Bret's open to the licensing agreement.
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Yeah.
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that, we'll just have to wait and see how that goes.
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And I'm sure that they're going to give us more details when they announce or launch the administration platform, because it sounds like that's not even here yet, right?
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Yeah, they're saying it won't be available until end of next year.
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I'm sure there's going to be, you know, it's going to trickle in on the back end and some new features might come out or some
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functionality for managing Google Books will come before then, but I guess maybe there's going to be a whole different management platform for it.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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I mean, it's a whole new OS.
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I think it's more based around Android and like the visuals and the UX of an Android device.
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So that's the ecosystem and.
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Yeah, I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense to go that direction.
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It's just, I guess, almost like a hard cutover, it feels like.
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Right.
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Yep.
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Yeah, well, here's another one that we had talked about a few times over the last couple of weeks.
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I think in episode three and six, I believe, was Shiny Hunters.
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They're at it again.
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We love these guys.
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Yeah.
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I think they'd hit a healthcare provider and then a different healthcare provider.
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Well, last week they were at it and they hit the FBI jobs.gov portal.
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and took it down and claimed that they had taken a whole bunch of FBI employee PII.
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So some information names and probably other information that they we don't really know what it was, but that seems like a pretty big one.
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And it I think drew some extra attention and somebody that
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The FBI and the Dutch police think are tied to shiny hunters this week.
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Yesterday was actually arrested in Amsterdam.
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And they seized a lot of his devices and I've already found that, or this was announced yesterday, he was arrested two weeks ago, but forensic investigators are already on the case.
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And it sounds like there may be a whole bunch of other stuff that will come out of this other than hacking.
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It seems like there's data theft, extortion, and maybe possibly murder for hire.
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So this will be a pretty good podcast episode one day once it all settles down.
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But as well, the FBI
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Yesterday released a message saying, hey, we know who some of you are and we're coming to find you.
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So I guess the FBI has released the bloodhounds to figure out who is behind shiny hunters and try to take them down.
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Good.
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It's going to be some like 13 year old kid in Wisconsin or something.
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It will be.
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Yeah.
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Well, the guy they caught in Amsterdam was 24 year old, 24 years old, apparently.
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There you go.
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And the Dutch police haven't officially released his name yet, but there's been some other media outlets that have, I guess, unofficially said who he is.
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But I think Kash Patel, the head of the FBI, has said that the FBI and the Dutch police are working together to try and find additional leads.
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And we'll see if this guy will squeak and give up any of his other acting compatriots at Shiny Hunters.
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But
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Yeah.
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So what all did they get in this one?
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Just like applicant data or actual internal FBI employee data?
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Yeah, I think it was both.
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I think it was both.
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They definitely said PII related to FBI employees.
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Now it seems like FBI jobs.gov would just have maybe applicant data, but
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if they don't make it clear whether or not that was applicants that were then hired by the FBI and that's how it was employee data or if it was employee data on every FBI employee.
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So we're not big.
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Yeah, that's that's that's a lot.
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So I don't think that they have said either way.
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But yeah, I mean, even if it is just applicant data, I mean, that's still.
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a pretty big hole because
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if they know that you're trying to apply to that, then they can do something with that pretty easily.
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Yep, exactly right.
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And it looks like that job site was down for a while while they were getting it under control.
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And then it seems like it's back up now.
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They were on AWS GovCloud and
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We'll have to wait and see if there's any more.
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Since it's probably really sensitive information, I'm not sure how much data they're going to give us on what exactly happened or what data was leaked.
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But I guess until we find out from shiny hunters if they release it or if the FBI says exactly what was taken, we may not figure out exactly what happened.
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But shiny hunters came out and said, hey, we're not doing it for the money.
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We're doing it to protect ourselves.
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And I'm not sure how that follows, but you know.
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I'm sure there's some political spin on it too.
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I bet there is, yeah.
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Or maybe it's just a test for the applicants, for the cybersecurity applicants for the FBI.
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And they're just like, hey, go, go, go, go figure out how this happened.
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Go, yeah, go figure out what this was.
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Well, yeah.
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And
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hopefully they've got this patched up and figured out exactly how they got in.
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And the right thing to do would be to honestly let us know.
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And that way other organizations aren't taken advantage of in the exact same manner.
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Yeah.
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Well, speaking of this, I don't know if you saw that Cloudflare has announced that they're
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going to start issuing quantum safe encryption certificates, which I think we've been looking forward to and expecting for quite some time, and we just may not have known exactly how to implement it.
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But a new type of encryption is in the works and
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Cloudflare plans to start issuing certificates in 2027.
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So one of the things that current or a lot of encryption schemes today have been reliant on is the amount of computing power it takes to break them.
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And I think some TLS certificates that are 1024 bit in the past, it's been estimated that it would take
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500,000 to a million processor core hours to break a certificate, which is an enormous amount of time and compute power.
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So it would be prohibitively expensive in order to do that.
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But I think certain types of encryption was actually had an attack vector that came out last week as well that that brought that down into the thousands of core hours.
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or the 10s of thousands of core hours.
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So an order of magnitude less amount of time.
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So I think it's probably time that this gets put into place because quantum computers can theoretically break non-quantum safe encryption in an extremely short period of time.
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And this new method called Merkle tree certificates
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is something that is going to replace traditional web PKI certificates and bring us into that quantum safe encryption era.
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So they're saying that's not coming until next year though?
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Yeah, they said the first quarter of 2027 is when they expect to start issuing the first certificates for it.
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I'm guessing that they've got to get the infrastructure in place.
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And I'm sure they've got to do some testing and get everything brought up to scale because Cloudflare does it at an enormous scale.
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It seems like though that they're not going to charge any more for it, which is nice.
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I guess it'll be exclusive to them.
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It sounds like that at this point, yes.
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They are going to
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use a root certificate, an already trusted root certificate from CA GlobalSign, which is probably the largest root certificate distributor.
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So that'll be in kind of the tree of the encryption chain or the certificate chain.
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But right now, CloudFlare is the first one that I'm aware of that says they plan to start issuing public quantum safe TLS certificates.
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Let's encrypt.
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Let's get it going.
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Let's get it together.
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I know, right?
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That's going to be really good.
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Well, hopefully that they pave the way and that there's many more that soon follow.
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I mean, while quantum computers aren't, you know, readily available to the normal people, I'm sure that, you know, in the next 10 years, large organizations are going to start having a more and more
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Assuming that assuming that we find more uses for them other than than, you know, educational purposes or research purposes or, you know, yeah, just just purely theoretical testing.
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I mean, I will have to see how pervasive they become soon.
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I think the promise of them hasn't fully panned out yet.
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we're going to have super intelligence figuring all that out too, right?
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Exactly.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Now that it's officially the new name.
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We'll get the SI.
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Yeah.
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I mean, yeah.
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Maybe it's just like Twitter.
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I'm not going to stop calling it Twitter.
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I'm not going to stop calling it AI.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Well, maybe the maybe the SI can figure out how to make better use of quantum computers.
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Yeah.
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speaking of AI, I think we'd seen a couple of things kind of similar to this.
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one was AI models keep posting screenshots showing sensitive data inside tech companies.
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And I think this is, I don't know, I'm on the fence on this behavior.
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It seems like it's kind of behaving like an intern would, just not knowing better.
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But it sounds like what's happening here is that
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a developer will go and ask an AI model to generate some code and then show a screenshot of the before and after of the application.
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And because there's not a clear method of sharing the screenshot with the developer, the AI model goes and creates a public GitHub repository and posts the screenshots there.
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So
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Yeah, it's finding a solution to the problem without explicitly being told what to do, which is kind of like what you'd expect from an entry level intern who may not know better that that's not a good idea and could potentially cause security problems.
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And this, it sounds like from the report, it's not limited to one specific AI model.
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There are a whole bunch of different AI agents were doing it.
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So it seems like a problem
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if you're doing AI development, man, you got to be really diligent about what the application is doing.
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Well, and is that common for it to generate a screenshot?
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I feel like it would, you know, create like a sandbox application.
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Yeah, no, it's being explicitly told by the developer to create screenshots.
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So that's the scenario where
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it goes and finds a place to put screenshots.
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So if the AI is being told by the human that it needs a screenshot or an image created and it doesn't have a place to put that, it's going to go create a place to put it and put it there.
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And I wonder if that code of conduct would cover this.
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Yeah, let's see, probably not.
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I think this probably needs to be built into the model itself or the tuning of the model where it tells it, hey, unless explicitly told, do not share something publicly.
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I can see that being in the code of conduct too.
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I mean, that seems like a solid rule.
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Yeah, but lean towards privacy whenever possible or unless explicitly told not to.
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That would be a really good one to add.
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Yeah, 100%.
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I'm going to have to go back and check, take a look at the Microsoft code of conduct.
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And Brett, I think you could have something added there.
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Maybe they'll give you credit.
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Yeah, you are.
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Man.
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Breaking in the money.
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That's why they pay him the big bucks.
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Yep, Well, this one, speaking of developers, this is kind of a developer driven one was Microsoft has announced general availability of Linux containers on Windows.
23:47.869 --> 23:51.789
So the Windows subsystem for Linux has been around for a little while.
23:52.269 --> 23:55.829
It's a feature you can turn on in order to run Linux applications.
23:55.829 --> 23:56.989
And it's basically
23:58.029 --> 24:02.589
It's A Linux OS running in Hyper-V behind the scenes.
24:03.069 --> 24:09.229
And then they give you a command line window into that Linux virtual machine.
24:10.429 --> 24:21.949
And WSL has been a dependency on a lot of applications, especially for developers and people who need to use Linux applications that may not necessarily have a dedicated Linux machine.
24:22.749 --> 24:27.629
Well, this is kind of built on top of that, where you can run Linux containers
24:29.069 --> 24:32.429
on Windows and so I'm not sure if this is going to be a separate
24:32.589 --> 24:43.229
feature within Windows or if it is going to be a new feature for WSL that just allows you to run Linux containers.
24:44.189 --> 24:51.149
Which maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like I saw somewhere, I don't know, last year or two that WSL was going away.
24:52.189 --> 24:52.749
Really?
24:53.389 --> 24:59.149
I don't know what I read or what I remember, but maybe it's like the 32, I don't know.
24:59.869 --> 25:10.909
I swear I saw something about WSL going away in some capacity, but I have no idea what it is because it seems like they're, looking at this alone, they're expanding it more and more each day.
25:11.789 --> 25:16.029
Yeah, I mean, there would be an uprising if WSL went away.
25:16.029 --> 25:20.029
I use it quite regularly for testing purposes.
25:23.389 --> 25:28.029
And man, I'm sure a ton of developers also use it.
25:28.829 --> 25:33.309
It's a really, really popular product or feature, I guess, under Windows.
25:33.709 --> 25:36.589
Well, and there's a ton of production software that uses it.
25:37.149 --> 25:37.469
Yeah.
25:38.269 --> 25:45.709
I mean, we use it internally for some security subsystems that do network monitoring.
25:45.869 --> 25:57.629
So some applications that may have been developed on Windows, they can be repackaged in kind of a way that they can run on a Windows machine with the WSL
25:58.269 --> 26:12.909
Which is super helpful because if you already have a Windows box just laying around on the network for that scenario, it's super easy to just throw that on there instead of having to like spin up some Linux VM or dual boot Linux on something.
26:13.549 --> 26:13.709
Yeah.
26:14.109 --> 26:15.789
I mean, I think this will be really interesting.
26:15.869 --> 26:17.869
I mean, it's been around for a little while.
26:17.869 --> 26:19.549
So there are third party products.
26:19.549 --> 26:28.149
Docker Desktop is a really popular one that has a GUI and a
26:28.349 --> 26:32.989
a command line that you can run on Windows and you can download containers.
26:32.989 --> 26:47.949
So I've used this quite a bit for old legacy systems where you cannot get old versions of, say, things like Java or an old browser version that needs Flash.
26:48.669 --> 26:54.669
And you can just run them as a container and perform whatever maintenance you need to do.
26:54.669 --> 26:57.789
And then you just throw the container away when you're done.
26:58.789 --> 27:04.509
But there's a ton of web applications that are running containers you can use.
27:05.949 --> 27:08.829
I use Docker desktop all the time for testing in that purpose.
27:08.829 --> 27:17.069
And then once you're happy with it, you just spin the same container up on a server and now you have a full-blown server that you know works.
27:17.069 --> 27:18.429
You've used it, you've tested it.
27:19.949 --> 27:24.829
And it seems like now you're going to have the ability to do that without any third-party software straight on Windows.
27:25.669 --> 27:26.589
That's pretty cool.
27:27.309 --> 27:28.989
Is it out yet or is it rolling out?
27:28.989 --> 27:30.029
It's out.
27:30.029 --> 27:34.989
So they said it's general availability now as of yesterday.
27:36.349 --> 27:43.309
So you can download the latest release on GitHub by just doing, it sounds like WSL dash dash update.
27:44.509 --> 27:54.029
And you'll get the WSLC is the container manager that runs in Windows.
27:55.069 --> 27:55.549
Nice.
27:56.269 --> 28:02.029
speaking of recent rollouts, do you see that Windows 1126 H2 is available now?
28:02.909 --> 28:04.509
I did see that.
28:04.749 --> 28:08.029
And I mean, good.
28:10.109 --> 28:30.269
there was some weird thing at first where they released 26H2, but it was only for ARM devices, but you could still download the 26H2 ISO, install it on an Intel machine, but once you installed it on an Intel machine, it would, like you're locked at that level and you can't update after the fact, something like that.
28:30.269 --> 28:30.669
Oh, weird.
28:31.309 --> 28:32.669
Yeah, it was crazy.
28:32.749 --> 28:39.509
But no, it's, I've seen it already hit our patch management, so it's rolling out pretty.
28:40.069 --> 28:40.669
pretty quick.
28:41.069 --> 28:41.389
Wow.
28:41.629 --> 28:45.869
Yeah, I had heard that Microsoft had said, hey, this is here.
28:46.269 --> 28:57.949
And it's kind of a maintenance release where they weren't expecting for there to be many compatibility issues or problems with it, which time will tell whether or not that's true or not.
28:57.949 --> 29:01.229
So yeah, exactly famous last words.
29:02.269 --> 29:03.949
But hopefully it goes out pretty smooth.
29:04.189 --> 29:06.269
It hasn't hit my Windows update yet, but
29:06.749 --> 29:16.669
I'm sure that I'll probably try to install it here in the next week or so just to make sure that, got to drink your own champagne or eat your own dog food.
29:17.869 --> 29:21.949
I mean, if we go by that, those standards, we should be running the insider builds.
29:22.829 --> 29:23.869
I'm not going to do that.
29:25.229 --> 29:26.109
I'm not that brave.
29:29.869 --> 29:34.989
Well, yeah, here's another one that we had talked about a little bit.
29:35.869 --> 29:39.549
ago was AI taking our jobs.
29:40.349 --> 29:44.269
That had been the big concern was the developers were getting laid off.
29:45.709 --> 29:52.269
And then it came back around, whoops, maybe this is more of an augmentation tool rather than a job replacement tool.
29:55.229 --> 30:03.149
And it seems like with new unemployment data, with new graduates, it's as low as it's ever been.
30:05.069 --> 30:13.629
at least in the past, let's see, we're looking at five years or so of jobs data.
30:16.349 --> 30:23.589
So it looks like the unemployment rate for new graduates kind of spikes right after graduation, kind of May, June, July.
30:23.589 --> 30:28.509
And then it comes back down every year in August, September, October, November, December.
30:30.509 --> 30:33.149
But it looks like right now,
30:33.629 --> 30:44.349
We're actually below average unemployment rate for new graduates, which kind of goes counter to what everything we've heard about AI taking everyone's jobs.
30:45.389 --> 30:54.589
Yeah, and I agree that's the right way to think about it, because I remember, I think I went to a Microsoft conference a year or two ago, and that's kind of what the vibes were.
30:54.669 --> 31:02.989
They were always saying that, you know, we're in the first stages of AI, eventually we'll get to a point where instead of AI helping you,
31:03.629 --> 31:13.669
and you instructing AI what to do, you can just treat it as a full employee or multiple employees and you're managing different agents to do work for you.
31:14.669 --> 31:23.709
But I don't know, I definitely think that it's more of an assistant as opposed to a full replacement for a person.
31:23.789 --> 31:27.869
And I don't really see it ever being a full replacement for a person.
31:28.589 --> 31:32.109
at least not in the, I would say in the next few years anyway.
31:32.109 --> 31:47.869
There's really no, you don't, an AI assistant or an AI model doesn't have kind of that human intuition and training and world experience and people skills and all of that kind of stuff that, a good employee will have.
31:49.389 --> 31:54.429
I'm sure there's going to be some things that are going to hit the cutting room floor first.
31:56.269 --> 32:15.469
And who knows, they may come back like image editors and, video creators, AI videos have been around, but there's kind of been pushback against that now where you can kind of tell that AI generated content, at least in visual, in the visual space, it has that feel to it.
32:16.189 --> 32:23.949
And I've seen where, you know, media companies like that have realized it and
32:25.309 --> 32:35.309
There has been some, maybe even more demand for content that doesn't look like AI so that they can set themselves back apart again.
32:35.469 --> 32:37.869
So it's kind of like a pendulum swing.
32:37.949 --> 32:41.709
It went too far and now people are freaking out and saying, hey, what the heck?
32:41.709 --> 32:44.109
And it kind of corrected itself a little bit.
32:45.269 --> 32:52.469
But especially for like application development, it makes perfect sense to be a
32:52.549 --> 32:56.989
an augmentation of a programmer, not a replacement.
32:57.869 --> 33:04.669
Because a lot of what you learn when you're a programmer is creating systems.
33:05.389 --> 33:10.189
So, you know, Brett, you did programming quite a bit, right?
33:10.189 --> 33:14.429
So what was the first thing you did when you're planning an application?
33:15.989 --> 33:17.709
That's been so many years ago.
33:17.949 --> 33:20.349
You kind of create like a flow chart for it, right?
33:20.349 --> 33:32.189
Like a pseudo program where you would say you'd have if then statements and say, hey, you got to think like a developer in order to make an application.
33:32.189 --> 33:42.509
And that same skill set comes in and you are able to use AI as an augmentation for that skill set.
33:43.549 --> 33:51.629
So all it does is you're going to have less carpal tunnel and the same amount of programmers, I think is what it's going to wind up being.
33:52.189 --> 33:53.469
I mean, that's not a bad thing.
33:54.269 --> 33:54.589
Oh, yeah.
33:55.389 --> 34:00.069
It's definitely going to accelerate the pace of application development.
34:00.069 --> 34:04.829
And I think we're going to get a whole lot more application and code written.
34:04.829 --> 34:08.589
I mean, that's absolutely going to be for sure.
34:11.549 --> 34:12.189
And so
34:12.989 --> 34:18.029
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of one of those things where if you make code easier, you're just going to get more of it.
34:20.269 --> 34:31.589
And there's definitely some easy things to build apps out there and build different, code based things, whether it's a web app or a full desktop app or a mobile app.
34:31.629 --> 34:35.069
I mean, just the Microsoft Copilot app builder.
34:35.069 --> 34:37.309
I mean, that's pretty dang good.
34:37.789 --> 34:38.189
Yeah.
34:39.309 --> 34:47.669
And we've used it internally for some testing reasons and then actually to build some, one-off tools for visualization.
34:47.669 --> 34:49.309
And it's been great for that.
34:49.309 --> 34:58.029
And, those wouldn't have been things that we would have actually sat down and developed or paid an application developer to do.
34:58.589 --> 35:07.869
So we're just getting more productivity by having these tools as opposed to
35:08.909 --> 35:12.429
not hiring a programmer because we can do it on our own.
35:14.189 --> 35:22.189
So I think I agree with this assessment from Ars Technica where, hey, it's not here to take our jobs, at least not yet.
35:24.600 --> 35:27.160
Well, remember everything we talked about, the Copilot Plus piece.
35:29.170 --> 35:29.810
I sure did.
35:29.810 --> 35:31.090
Some pretty cool features in there.
35:31.490 --> 35:32.530
Yeah, forget all of it.
35:34.210 --> 35:34.370
Good.
35:34.490 --> 35:36.050
Well, at least most of it.
35:36.650 --> 35:51.170
So a fellow Brett, Brett Ostrom, the corporate VP of Surface over at Microsoft, I guess to back up, Microsoft announced their new Surface hardware a couple weeks ago.
35:52.290 --> 35:57.250
And weirdly missing was the Copilot Plus PC moniker for any of those models.
35:58.130 --> 36:14.450
So I guess there was some confusion on the future of Copilot Plus PCs, but he came out to Windows Central and said, these new models do not meet all the, or do meet all the requirements for our previous bar for what Copilot Plus devices are.
36:15.330 --> 36:20.610
We still lean into the narrative around AI on the edge and being able to have a hybrid solution out there.
36:20.610 --> 36:31.250
So he's essentially saying, yeah, this hardware still meets the requirements for what we were calling a copilot plus PC in the past, but it sounds like they're weaning off that name.
36:31.250 --> 36:36.690
And I don't know, maybe anything in the future that has those capabilities.
36:37.490 --> 36:42.850
I don't know how we'll distinguish other than looking at the specs or maybe
36:43.410 --> 36:49.730
Those specs will be the new minimum for Windows 11 and every PC will be a Copilot Plus PC.
36:49.730 --> 36:53.170
So it sounds like it's just a marketing change on their part.
36:54.090 --> 36:54.850
Pretty much, yeah.
36:55.570 --> 37:05.250
I mean, again, they're saying the new hardware, it's going to support all of the fancy AI stuff that a Copilot Plus PC would do just without the name.
37:05.730 --> 37:11.010
You'll still have the Copilot button on the keyboard, but there's no sticker.
37:11.890 --> 37:12.130
Yeah.
37:14.290 --> 37:25.730
I mean, that kind of reminds me of, I guess, what were some of the Intel badges you could get on your machine, like Intel Evo or Intel Ultrabook or Intel Centrino.
37:26.130 --> 37:27.570
It wasn't actually a thing.
37:28.530 --> 37:29.090
I know.
37:29.570 --> 37:34.650
It was a collection of technologies that were associated with the processor, not just the processor itself.
37:34.650 --> 37:36.850
So that kind of sounds like what this is.
37:38.210 --> 37:39.250
Copilot Plus PC.
37:39.250 --> 37:44.050
So you had to have the memory and the NPU and you had to have the CPU that went with it.
37:44.770 --> 37:47.330
I mean, that's what Intel Centrino was way back in the day.
37:47.330 --> 37:51.890
It was the CPU plus the Wi-Fi plus, you know, a couple of other features.
37:54.450 --> 38:01.690
So it sounds like to me, the Copilot Plus features are not going away.
38:01.690 --> 38:05.170
They're just going to stop marketing it as such.
38:06.130 --> 38:06.370
Yeah.
38:06.450 --> 38:06.770
Right?
38:07.650 --> 38:08.530
Yeah, pretty much.
38:08.530 --> 38:11.170
But I mean, again, that begs the question, how do you tell?
38:11.330 --> 38:12.050
How do you tell?
38:12.050 --> 38:13.170
Yeah, that's a big one.
38:14.370 --> 38:24.410
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm sure they're going to come up with something new because I mean, the Kobot Plus PC branding was only around since 24.
38:24.410 --> 38:26.770
So it's only been two years that they've had that out.
38:26.770 --> 38:35.410
So I'm sure they're working on something new to distinguish, you know, higher end laptops more capable of local AI.
38:35.810 --> 38:36.290
Right.
38:36.450 --> 38:36.730
Yeah.
38:37.890 --> 38:39.570
I mean, hopefully there's something.
38:39.570 --> 38:46.530
I think you're right, because otherwise I don't want to go and make sure that it has the correct NPU.
38:46.770 --> 39:01.890
It's pretty easy to tell what the RAM and the storage is on a machine, but I wonder if they're just expecting and we're not there yet, because you can still buy processors today that have an old enough NPU that it won't support it.
39:03.170 --> 39:03.490
But
39:04.810 --> 39:07.170
At some point in the future, they probably all will.
39:08.770 --> 39:13.730
But will it be enough for, will they still require that minimum of what, 50?
39:14.850 --> 39:16.610
Right, 40, something like that.
39:16.610 --> 39:18.610
Yeah, whatever it was.
39:19.250 --> 39:20.450
See, I already forgot everything.
39:21.170 --> 39:21.890
Exactly.
39:22.930 --> 39:23.810
Thanks, Microsoft.
39:24.210 --> 39:27.250
Well, I mean, that's in true Microsoft fashion.
39:29.090 --> 39:32.290
Abandoning a product after only a couple of years.
39:35.010 --> 39:35.250
Yeah.
39:36.370 --> 39:43.970
I mean, I think it's a good idea to be able to know what hybrid AI capabilities your machine has.
39:44.450 --> 39:48.930
And I'm sure that they would have had to change it eventually because it's going to evolve.
39:48.930 --> 40:02.690
The laptops are going to get, not laptops, but the CPU, the computers are going to get more capable, more powerful, be able to run features that older ones from today may not
40:03.090 --> 40:04.050
be able to run.
40:05.090 --> 40:13.250
So, I wonder, maybe it's going to be Copilot plus PC2 or something.
40:13.250 --> 40:13.730
I don't know.
40:14.650 --> 40:16.690
Whatever the follow-up is going to be.
40:16.690 --> 40:21.450
And, there's a strong possibility they're going to rename Copilot as a whole.
40:21.450 --> 40:22.370
So what do they do then?
40:22.370 --> 40:24.770
Maybe this is the start of that process.
40:24.770 --> 40:27.730
Maybe they're dropping that so they can rename Copilot.
40:28.050 --> 40:28.930
It could be.
40:28.930 --> 40:30.370
You may be exactly right.
40:30.970 --> 40:32.050
Gosh, we'd have to go.
40:32.450 --> 40:48.210
We'd have to go visit the Microsoft renaming website to keep track of the 400 plus products that Microsoft has and the probably 20 of them that have Copilot in the name somewhere.
40:49.970 --> 40:51.090
That's everywhere.
40:51.570 --> 40:52.770
Everything has Copilot.
40:53.250 --> 40:54.210
Yeah, it sure is.
40:55.170 --> 40:58.770
I feel like everybody hated that name in the beginning, but I think it makes sense.
40:59.570 --> 41:00.690
Yeah, no, it's not bad.
41:00.690 --> 41:01.330
I think that
41:01.890 --> 41:08.370
when you start, they started applying it to things that didn't necessarily fit, it started to get a little weird.
41:10.450 --> 41:19.090
But I think, having the AI assistant beat Copilot is kind of the perfect use case for it.
41:20.530 --> 41:29.090
I thought it was a pretty good name, but yeah, I don't want to have to go re-explain to everybody that, hey, Copilot is now
41:31.330 --> 41:32.370
Cortana.
41:33.330 --> 41:34.690
I mean, I wouldn't be mad at that though.
41:34.770 --> 41:35.890
I would not be mad at that.
41:36.370 --> 41:36.650
Yeah.
41:39.010 --> 41:49.450
Although I have flashbacks of setting up like 5 plus computers at one time and the out of box experience for Windows 10 where Cortana starts talking to you.
41:49.490 --> 41:50.610
Just out of nowhere.
41:50.610 --> 41:50.810
Yeah.
41:50.890 --> 41:53.730
And you just do all five at the same time.
41:53.810 --> 41:54.610
Yeah, freaks out.
41:54.850 --> 41:54.970
Yes.
41:57.490 --> 41:58.130
Oh, yep.
41:59.170 --> 42:00.130
Vivid memories of that.
42:00.210 --> 42:00.610
Yeah.
42:01.250 --> 42:11.490
But I mean, it seems like this is following kind of a larger trend of, hey, maybe AI marketing was a fad for a little while because everything was AI.
42:11.890 --> 42:24.770
You know, you'd go to, you'd look at coverage of Computex or any one of the technology trade shows and everything would be AI fans, AI power supplies.
42:25.410 --> 42:27.290
your AI monitor, and it's not.
42:27.290 --> 42:32.530
It's, I mean, sure, you could connect it to a computer that does AI, and then they would slap the AI logo on it.
42:33.970 --> 42:34.690
And it seems like.
42:35.090 --> 42:39.330
Yeah, they changed the word algorithm to AI.
42:39.410 --> 42:43.090
So everything that has some sort of process is now AI.
42:43.490 --> 42:44.130
Exactly.
42:44.690 --> 42:50.690
So it seems like maybe the fad of marketing everything as AI has kind of swung the other way a little bit.
42:52.170 --> 42:53.330
And so
42:56.850 --> 43:08.050
like Dell has gotten away from the AI PC naming scheme as well, as well as other products.
43:08.210 --> 43:16.370
So maybe it's just the idea of AI PCs are kind of fading and it's becoming the norm as opposed to a cool new feature.
43:17.090 --> 43:18.450
Yeah, which is fine.
43:18.770 --> 43:21.250
But I still think there needs to be some sort of
43:22.050 --> 43:28.410
label or moniker or something to easily distinguish what's a more powerful CPU in a laptop or desktop.
43:28.930 --> 43:29.330
I agree.
43:29.410 --> 43:29.810
I agree.
43:30.210 --> 43:36.530
Well, I mean, that's another thing right now is that, you know, there are not many desktops that have NPUs in them.
43:36.530 --> 43:50.530
It seems at least up until recently, it was a laptop only like hardware feature where, you know, in a desktop PC, you may have a more powerful
43:50.930 --> 43:55.250
GPU, but that still doesn't meet the specification for a Copilot Plus PC.
43:56.290 --> 43:56.610
True.
43:58.050 --> 44:05.330
So I'd be curious that the next generation of Intel and AMD processors introduce an NPU, I'm sure that they will, they'll have to.
44:05.890 --> 44:13.170
I mean, it's been around in the Apple ecosystem for several years now.
44:14.290 --> 44:15.370
I think starting in maybe the
44:19.050 --> 44:25.730
Was it the M2s, maybe the M3s started adding a dedicated NPU onto the processor.
44:28.690 --> 44:36.210
And they've been around for a little while now on both the AMD and the Intel side for laptops, but just not in the desktops for whatever reason.
44:38.650 --> 44:39.890
But yeah, I agree with you.
44:39.890 --> 44:47.330
I think we need to bring some kind of labeling back in so that we're able to tell, hey, what meets the requirement and what doesn't, just at a glance.
44:48.370 --> 44:48.610
Yeah.
44:50.290 --> 44:56.930
But do you think that would be something Intel and AMD needs to do or something that Microsoft should do or the OEM?
44:58.210 --> 44:59.810
Yeah, that's a really good question.
44:59.810 --> 45:05.490
I think it makes the most sense for Microsoft to do it since they're the ones making the software.
45:06.450 --> 45:10.690
And that way it fits across really any ecosystem.
45:12.690 --> 45:18.530
But I mean, going back to the Centrino example, that was Intel because it's all hardware based for the most part.
45:18.930 --> 45:19.250
Right.
45:19.490 --> 45:19.890
Yeah.
45:20.130 --> 45:21.170
No, you're exactly right.
45:23.090 --> 45:29.410
I mean, I guess in theory it could be you could have the say the manufacturer put it on there.
45:32.610 --> 45:34.930
I'm not sure that Intel or AMD.
45:35.650 --> 45:36.770
Well, I take that back.
45:38.130 --> 45:41.010
AMD puts it right in the processor name for laptops these days.
45:41.010 --> 45:44.050
They have the Ryzen AI processor.
45:44.050 --> 45:46.450
They put it right in the model name.
45:47.650 --> 45:49.330
Intel hasn't so far done that.
45:50.210 --> 45:59.490
But if Microsoft is going to stop, it may be up to the OEMs like Dell or Lenovo, HP to help you differentiate between the models.
46:00.090 --> 46:08.770
Yeah, I feel like that's going to get messy quick just because every OEM is going to have a different naming scheme to tell you what hardware is capable.
46:09.090 --> 46:17.210
Yeah, that's kind of why it's this is kind of a surprising announcement because Microsoft I think was in the best position to let you know what was capable and what wasn't.
46:18.050 --> 46:19.890
and they were going so hard on it too.
46:20.450 --> 46:20.770
Right.
46:20.890 --> 46:23.970
Like they went all in on that.
46:23.970 --> 46:27.210
and I can't imagine it would be.
46:29.890 --> 46:48.690
easy to find whether or not it was an effective marketing that they had going with it because some people may just be buying the more powerful machine or some people may have bought it, bought a more powerful machine because it said it was copilot plus capable.
46:49.810 --> 46:53.170
So I bet there's a lot of confusion around it.
46:53.730 --> 47:01.730
A lot of people buying these copilot plus PCs and then they get it booted up and they're like, I don't, I still have to pay for copilot each month.
47:01.890 --> 47:02.610
I thought I bought it.
47:03.010 --> 47:04.690
You know, that's a really good point.
47:04.690 --> 47:06.130
Man, you're on A roll today, Brett.
47:07.170 --> 47:12.890
Yeah, I mean, I could definitely see that scenario where somebody would buy it and say, hey, where's my copilot?
47:12.890 --> 47:13.570
I don't have it.
47:14.050 --> 47:16.250
Yeah, because that's a.
47:16.250 --> 47:21.410
They got the local AI features, but as far as like the more advanced, I guess, chat bot,
47:23.010 --> 47:24.210
Yeah.
47:25.970 --> 47:33.090
I mean, I can only imagine, and at least I would hope that they'll come up with some sort of replacement for the moniker.
47:33.090 --> 47:41.570
They'll have some other marketing branding that'll go along with it.
47:43.810 --> 47:50.290
I mean, I haven't seen any indication of this yet, but to your point, I bought the copilot PC, where's my copilot?
47:50.970 --> 48:00.930
could possibly be a, some sort of class action lawsuit come up where they, somebody bought it for a reason.
48:00.930 --> 48:02.490
They didn't get that thing.
48:02.490 --> 48:04.370
And now they're mad.
48:05.570 --> 48:20.290
But dropping this marketing name kind of admits to that effect that, hey, maybe there was confusion between what the differences between all the things that Microsoft names copilot.
48:22.290 --> 48:23.890
Windows Copilot is next.
48:24.210 --> 48:24.490
Yeah.
48:26.530 --> 48:28.330
There's no file explorer or anything.
48:28.330 --> 48:29.290
It's just a chat bot.
48:29.290 --> 48:30.210
You do everything in chat.
48:31.370 --> 48:32.090
Exactly.
48:33.250 --> 48:34.250
Oh, God, don't tell me that.
48:34.250 --> 48:36.930
Yeah, it's going to be just like Jarvis or whatever.
48:36.930 --> 48:39.570
You just talk to the computer is the only thing you can do.
48:40.130 --> 48:43.090
But then it hallucinates and orders you DoorDash.
48:43.570 --> 48:43.850
Yeah.
48:44.370 --> 48:49.650
Well, there's a really good YouTube channel.
48:51.090 --> 48:51.890
by a guy named Sean.
48:51.890 --> 48:53.170
It's Action Retro.
48:54.130 --> 49:01.730
And he came up with this moniker, at least it was the first time I saw it, was he vibe coded an entire operating system for a computer.
49:02.450 --> 49:04.690
And he called it the slop rating system.
49:05.250 --> 49:07.250
And I thought that was just brilliant.
49:07.370 --> 49:18.050
And so I could definitely see where you get to a point where, you know, you're not, you're less and less interfacing with a computer.
49:18.690 --> 49:25.970
as a file in a window type thing, you're interfacing with a chat or a voice command type interface.
49:26.930 --> 49:30.970
Well, they've been trying to do voice command type type stuff for years.
49:30.970 --> 49:32.850
It's never caught on for me.
49:32.850 --> 49:36.690
I don't know about you, but I don't like talking to my stuff.
49:37.250 --> 49:37.650
Yeah.
49:38.130 --> 49:43.090
Well, I mean, there's one of the recent things in the Linux world
49:43.730 --> 49:48.170
that's been a big deal was a Linux release called Omarchy.
49:48.170 --> 49:50.450
I don't know if you've seen this.
49:50.450 --> 50:02.450
It's based on Arch, which has traditionally been the most difficult distribution of Linux to install and to run because you have to do everything yourself.
50:03.090 --> 50:12.370
Well, somebody came along and wrote kind of an interface for it that makes the operating system as easy as could possibly be.
50:13.730 --> 50:18.850
But the way that you interface with it is through an AI chatbot.
50:19.170 --> 50:24.690
And so you can still use Windows, you can still use keyboard command shortcuts, you can do all that kind of thing.
50:25.770 --> 50:28.130
But say you wanted to change the interface.
50:29.170 --> 50:35.010
All you had to do, all you have to do is put into the chatbot, hey, I would like for you to add an additional
50:37.490 --> 50:51.730
interface element like a window icon or a window button or rearrange the theme in a different way for the operating system and it would go and do that and then you would just it would be that way on your computer.
50:53.010 --> 51:03.250
So and all that would be just generated on the fly rather than having other applications to install to modify or settings existing settings to change that.
51:04.450 --> 51:04.930
So
51:05.730 --> 51:14.690
It kind of seems like maybe that will be a fad or a trend, or maybe that's going to be the future is just an AI-centric operating system.
51:15.690 --> 51:16.370
Interesting.
51:17.170 --> 51:20.370
And possibly the year of the Linux desktop.
51:21.010 --> 51:25.890
I know we've been saying that for years, but I feel like it's starting to catch on, especially with the framework laptops.
51:26.370 --> 51:33.250
Yeah, framework laptops and Steam, weirdly, from the gaming side has made really
51:34.370 --> 51:49.610
huge strides into that, where they have putting a bunch of development into making Windows applications run on Linux and then making the interface more or less standardized.
51:49.610 --> 51:55.010
I mean, there are thousands of Linux distributions out there and they all behave differently.
51:55.890 --> 52:02.610
But one gigantic company like Steam coming behind and creating, for lack of a better word,
52:03.490 --> 52:07.810
a standard may increase adoption.
52:09.090 --> 52:10.530
But yeah, you're right.
52:10.530 --> 52:21.170
I think that there are actually some government organizations or governments that are looking towards Linux as a replacement for Windows.
52:23.410 --> 52:32.290
And it may be feasible with most applications today being available as a web application, software as a service.
52:34.530 --> 52:43.450
I think I'm hesitant to try it day-to-day, but I think there's a light at the end of that tunnel.
52:43.450 --> 52:45.250
I think there definitely could be.
52:45.330 --> 52:49.490
I think, from an individual standpoint, I think it's definitely doable now.
52:49.490 --> 52:53.730
I think anybody could probably get it and figure it out and be able to run it day-to-day.
52:54.530 --> 53:01.890
From a corporate standpoint, it makes it a little more difficult just because the management ecosystem is not there
53:02.570 --> 53:03.250
for Linux.
53:03.250 --> 53:23.970
I mean, we can get things like, antivirus and managed detection and response and endpoint detection and response and, some automation policies deployed to it, but it's not near as robust as what's available for Windows, say through Active Directory or Intune.
53:24.610 --> 53:27.490
So I think that's kind of the big limiting factor right now is that
53:30.490 --> 53:38.690
kind of the corporate management security policy is just not there yet.
53:39.650 --> 53:43.090
And maybe that'll change with vibe coding with AI development.
53:43.090 --> 53:44.530
I don't know if that'd be a good thing though.
53:44.890 --> 53:46.690
Yeah, well, that's true.
53:46.690 --> 53:58.370
But if somebody was working on it, you know, a small developer, a small, you know, software studio, maybe just before didn't have the resources because they
53:59.770 --> 54:01.410
It's kind of the chicken and the egg thing, right?
54:01.410 --> 54:08.370
Nobody's going to write an application for it if the demand is not there, but the demand's not going to be there because there's no application for it.
54:09.010 --> 54:23.250
So if the barrier to entry to come in and be able to create a management platform for Linux is lowered, then you may get more adoption and just snowballs a little bit.
54:24.290 --> 54:24.410
Yeah.
54:27.490 --> 54:32.850
speaking of management and corporate security, we appreciate you spending part of your day with us.
54:32.850 --> 54:36.770
And remember, good IT isn't just about tools and software.
54:37.410 --> 54:39.810
It's about having the right people in your corner.
54:40.170 --> 54:49.730
If today's discussion raised questions about your orgs, technology or security posture, reach out to Harvest at harvestitsolutions.com or using the link in the description.
54:50.370 --> 54:54.690
We help businesses turn technology challenges into business advantages.
54:55.010 --> 54:56.130
And we'll see you next time.
00:09.673 --> 00:13.193
Welcome to another shift of on-call sysadmin with Brett and Brett.
00:14.073 --> 00:20.073
Each week we explore trends, security threats, and technology decisions shaping today's businesses.
00:20.313 --> 00:28.713
This podcast is sponsored by Harvest IT Solutions, a trusted MSP helping organizations get more from technology with less stress.
00:30.553 --> 00:32.473
A couple of things we're going to look at today.
00:33.033 --> 00:36.793
was FBI's job page was hacked by shiny hunters.
00:36.793 --> 00:39.273
We've seen them a few times over the last couple of weeks.
00:40.873 --> 00:43.113
AI may not be taking our jobs after all.
00:43.833 --> 00:49.033
And forget everything we told you about Copilot PC a few weeks ago and much more.
00:50.709 --> 00:54.869
Well, did you see this from DoorDash?
00:56.309 --> 00:59.669
We're about to get as convenient as convenient can be.
01:02.109 --> 01:13.069
Instead of having to go through a menu and select what you need, you can just iMessage the DoorDash AI chatbot and they'll order everything for you.
01:14.109 --> 01:15.389
Or Android users.
01:15.989 --> 01:16.109
Yeah.
01:18.109 --> 01:20.189
I guess they're going to have to wait a little bit longer.
01:21.469 --> 01:26.149
Or this will never come to fruition and they'll never get it.
01:26.229 --> 01:29.149
True, Yeah, I see no way this could possibly go wrong.
01:30.109 --> 01:30.509
Oh man.
01:30.669 --> 01:31.429
So will you just.
01:31.789 --> 01:37.389
text the thing what you're feeling and it picks what it thinks it wants for you?
01:37.869 --> 01:38.749
I guess.
01:39.949 --> 01:47.149
Well, or maybe you just tell it, hey, add bread to my shopping list and it maybe knows what you ordered previously.
01:47.149 --> 01:48.509
And I don't know.
01:48.509 --> 01:56.029
It sounds like this is in beta right now and you got to be on a waiting list to get access to it.
01:56.029 --> 01:58.909
But gosh, it's about
02:01.149 --> 02:08.189
I don't know, because if you have to chat back and forth with it, I mean.
02:08.589 --> 02:09.389
That's true.
02:10.189 --> 02:13.469
I'd be interested in trying it just to see what I get.
02:15.309 --> 02:17.069
Yeah, what's the experience like?
02:17.549 --> 02:24.829
Yeah, I would love to just say, hey, pick something for me to eat and see what shows up at the door.
02:25.309 --> 02:27.309
Yeah, I am indecisive.
02:27.309 --> 02:28.629
So just like I'm feeling
02:29.509 --> 02:31.789
I don't know, some kind of pizza dish.
02:32.989 --> 02:33.869
Surprise me.
02:36.029 --> 02:36.269
Yeah.
02:37.949 --> 02:42.029
I would actually do that every now and then, I think, just to spice it up.
02:43.389 --> 02:44.669
sign up for that waiting list.
02:45.709 --> 02:45.909
Yeah.
02:48.829 --> 02:51.709
Well, I guess you talked about this.
02:52.029 --> 02:52.909
Something's coming early.
02:52.909 --> 02:54.669
Speaking of something that's coming a little bit early.
02:55.789 --> 02:58.669
You talked about this last week, the week before.
02:59.229 --> 03:00.989
Yeah, the new Google Books.
03:02.349 --> 03:10.909
I think we kind of posed some questions, and I think everybody else posed some questions as far as, what does that mean for Chrome OS and Chromebooks?
03:11.629 --> 03:15.229
And Google dropped some new information on that.
03:15.629 --> 03:20.669
I think there's still a lot of open-ended questions about it, but a little bit of clarity.
03:22.429 --> 03:30.589
So they're saying that many of the newest Chromebook devices will be eligible to transition over to Google Book OS at some point.
03:31.629 --> 03:32.469
And I guess let's back up.
03:32.469 --> 03:36.829
That's probably one of the first questions is what's the history of Chrome OS?
03:36.829 --> 03:39.549
And it kind of sounds like that's going away.
03:39.789 --> 03:44.509
Google Book is the future, which I still don't like that name.
03:44.589 --> 03:45.949
Chrome OS is better.
03:46.029 --> 03:50.829
And I feel like if they wanted to change the name, Google Book was not the right path.
03:51.789 --> 03:52.309
I agree with you.
03:52.309 --> 03:53.469
It sounds like it's a toy.
03:54.189 --> 03:54.349
Yeah.
03:55.909 --> 04:00.349
But I mean, I guess they just had to have their name in there to make sure that you knew this is a Google thing.
04:02.429 --> 04:02.709
Yeah.
04:02.749 --> 04:03.389
So.
04:05.469 --> 04:12.029
But they also they're also saying that I guess Chromebooks have historically had a 10 year support life cycle.
04:13.309 --> 04:16.509
And that is going to be cut short with this transition.
04:16.509 --> 04:17.549
So instead of
04:18.109 --> 04:25.549
So if you bought a brand new Chromebook today, you would expect until 2036 to have support.
04:25.549 --> 04:31.949
Well, they're saying Chromebooks as a whole will end support in 2034.
04:31.949 --> 04:37.229
So that's essentially cutting off two years on your latest Chromebooks that you purchased.
04:38.509 --> 04:46.989
Yeah, I mean, that's a long time, but just to be honest with you, Chromebooks have not historically
04:47.629 --> 04:50.829
been the model of durability and longevity.
04:51.549 --> 04:55.949
So I'd be really surprised if any Chromebooks made it to 2034 anyway.
04:56.829 --> 04:59.389
Yeah, but I mean, that was kind of the point of them, right?
04:59.389 --> 05:08.989
I mean, their main market was education and you gave it to students because you knew that they were going to throw it around and not care about it and they were cheap enough to replace.
05:10.229 --> 05:13.989
Yeah, So what's going to happen when you're
05:14.829 --> 05:16.029
Done with Chrome OS.
05:16.029 --> 05:17.789
What do people do then?
05:18.669 --> 05:22.189
So there's still some, I guess, unanswered questions there.
05:22.829 --> 05:29.709
They're saying that the management capabilities for Google Books is not coming out until the end of 2027.
05:30.349 --> 05:38.669
So I guess essentially Google Books as they stand now until the end of next year is strictly a consumer product because you can't manage it.
05:41.149 --> 05:57.389
But there's going to be some sort of transition path or upgrade path from a Chrome OS Chromebook to a, I guess, Google Book OS on the same hardware as long as it's new enough.
05:59.629 --> 06:04.349
But they're also, they're saying something about the licensing is going to be different.
06:04.349 --> 06:09.229
So if you update your Chromebook to Google Book OS or buy a new machine,
06:09.829 --> 06:17.629
it's going to be a whole new license separate from what has existed for Chrome Education and Enterprise licenses.
06:18.109 --> 06:24.589
So they haven't really released any information on what the licensing looks like yet, but they said it's going to be different.
06:25.909 --> 06:26.909
That's really interesting.
06:26.909 --> 06:38.029
I would hope that they would have some sort of trade-in system where if you've got an existing device, you'd be able to
06:38.589 --> 06:43.709
migrate that license over to the new management portal, the new administration platform.
06:43.709 --> 06:45.469
But time will tell, I guess.
06:46.269 --> 06:47.309
Yeah, I would hope so.
06:47.789 --> 06:49.109
And it's kind of odd.
06:49.109 --> 06:56.269
I guess they're, I don't know, the initial announcement for Google Books is these like higher end Chromebooks, if you will.
06:56.349 --> 07:02.829
So I don't know, everybody's, I guess, initial thought on Google Book was that it's an elevated hardware platform.
07:03.149 --> 07:03.509
Right.
07:03.509 --> 07:04.349
That's what I thought.
07:04.749 --> 07:09.909
But I guess that's just their introduction to the new OS and the new platform.
07:09.909 --> 07:15.229
And then they're going to dial it back, once people get familiar with it and they develop it enough.
07:15.789 --> 07:16.869
Yeah, that was my thought too.
07:16.869 --> 07:24.509
I mean, I guess it's not uncommon for a company to launch a flagship product first and then fill in the rest of the stack a little bit later on.
07:24.509 --> 07:26.349
But yeah, I was with you.
07:26.429 --> 07:31.069
I kind of thought, hey, this is going to be the new high-end version of Chromebook.
07:31.069 --> 07:32.029
But it seems like
07:33.189 --> 07:35.149
The Chromebook is not going to live on.
07:35.949 --> 07:36.069
Yeah.
07:36.069 --> 07:44.149
I'm interested to see if it's going to have that same glow bar on all models, even the low end ones.
07:44.149 --> 07:47.709
Because again, I thought that was a premium feature.
07:48.589 --> 08:00.029
And I guess it might follow their Pixel phone lineup, because I think the, what do they call it, their new highlight feature on the Pixel phones, I think that's restricted to the Pro models, I want to say.
08:00.029 --> 08:01.789
So maybe that's how they work it in.
08:03.229 --> 08:17.949
Yeah, I imagine that they're going to have to cut costs somewhere in order to get it, down to 1/3 of what the Google Books are today is kind of what you traditionally paid for a Chrome OS laptop or a Chromebook.
08:19.709 --> 08:23.629
But even Pixelbook or Pixel OS would have been such a better name.
08:23.709 --> 08:25.149
That would have been way better.
08:25.309 --> 08:26.029
Oh, I like that.
08:26.509 --> 08:30.509
Hey, Bret's open to the licensing agreement.
08:30.509 --> 08:30.709
Yeah.
08:35.629 --> 08:38.429
that, we'll just have to wait and see how that goes.
08:39.069 --> 08:48.829
And I'm sure that they're going to give us more details when they announce or launch the administration platform, because it sounds like that's not even here yet, right?
08:49.389 --> 08:52.109
Yeah, they're saying it won't be available until end of next year.
08:52.189 --> 08:58.749
I'm sure there's going to be, you know, it's going to trickle in on the back end and some new features might come out or some
08:59.149 --> 09:06.669
functionality for managing Google Books will come before then, but I guess maybe there's going to be a whole different management platform for it.
09:07.309 --> 09:07.469
Yeah.
09:07.509 --> 09:08.389
All right.
09:08.389 --> 09:09.869
I mean, it's a whole new OS.
09:09.869 --> 09:18.029
I think it's more based around Android and like the visuals and the UX of an Android device.
09:18.509 --> 09:19.989
So that's the ecosystem and.
09:20.349 --> 09:23.469
Yeah, I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense to go that direction.
09:23.469 --> 09:27.549
It's just, I guess, almost like a hard cutover, it feels like.
09:28.189 --> 09:28.429
Right.
09:28.589 --> 09:28.909
Yep.
09:31.149 --> 09:35.189
Yeah, well, here's another one that we had talked about a few times over the last couple of weeks.
09:35.189 --> 09:40.429
I think in episode three and six, I believe, was Shiny Hunters.
09:40.429 --> 09:41.309
They're at it again.
09:42.309 --> 09:43.149
We love these guys.
09:43.389 --> 09:43.749
Yeah.
09:45.149 --> 09:49.069
I think they'd hit a healthcare provider and then a different healthcare provider.
09:50.109 --> 09:56.029
Well, last week they were at it and they hit the FBI jobs.gov portal.
09:56.829 --> 10:03.069
and took it down and claimed that they had taken a whole bunch of FBI employee PII.
10:03.069 --> 10:15.869
So some information names and probably other information that they we don't really know what it was, but that seems like a pretty big one.
10:15.869 --> 10:23.709
And it I think drew some extra attention and somebody that
10:24.909 --> 10:29.229
The FBI and the Dutch police think are tied to shiny hunters this week.
10:30.189 --> 10:34.589
Yesterday was actually arrested in Amsterdam.
10:36.509 --> 10:51.389
And they seized a lot of his devices and I've already found that, or this was announced yesterday, he was arrested two weeks ago, but forensic investigators are already on the case.
10:52.349 --> 11:01.549
And it sounds like there may be a whole bunch of other stuff that will come out of this other than hacking.
11:01.549 --> 11:08.109
It seems like there's data theft, extortion, and maybe possibly murder for hire.
11:08.109 --> 11:17.229
So this will be a pretty good podcast episode one day once it all settles down.
11:18.189 --> 11:21.629
But as well, the FBI
11:22.749 --> 11:33.629
Yesterday released a message saying, hey, we know who some of you are and we're coming to find you.
11:33.629 --> 11:44.589
So I guess the FBI has released the bloodhounds to figure out who is behind shiny hunters and try to take them down.
11:45.629 --> 11:45.749
Good.
11:45.749 --> 11:49.149
It's going to be some like 13 year old kid in Wisconsin or something.
11:49.949 --> 11:50.669
It will be.
11:51.149 --> 11:51.389
Yeah.
11:51.869 --> 11:56.429
Well, the guy they caught in Amsterdam was 24 year old, 24 years old, apparently.
11:57.029 --> 11:57.469
There you go.
11:58.509 --> 12:12.829
And the Dutch police haven't officially released his name yet, but there's been some other media outlets that have, I guess, unofficially said who he is.
12:13.709 --> 12:26.309
But I think Kash Patel, the head of the FBI, has said that the FBI and the Dutch police are working together to try and find additional leads.
12:26.309 --> 12:36.749
And we'll see if this guy will squeak and give up any of his other acting compatriots at Shiny Hunters.
12:36.749 --> 12:37.069
But
12:38.509 --> 12:38.709
Yeah.
12:39.389 --> 12:40.749
So what all did they get in this one?
12:40.749 --> 12:45.149
Just like applicant data or actual internal FBI employee data?
12:45.309 --> 12:46.509
Yeah, I think it was both.
12:46.669 --> 12:47.549
I think it was both.
12:49.309 --> 12:54.269
They definitely said PII related to FBI employees.
12:54.589 --> 12:59.309
Now it seems like FBI jobs.gov would just have maybe applicant data, but
13:02.429 --> 13:13.709
if they don't make it clear whether or not that was applicants that were then hired by the FBI and that's how it was employee data or if it was employee data on every FBI employee.
13:15.389 --> 13:16.509
So we're not big.
13:17.069 --> 13:21.069
Yeah, that's that's that's a lot.
13:21.069 --> 13:24.989
So I don't think that they have said either way.
13:26.389 --> 13:30.909
But yeah, I mean, even if it is just applicant data, I mean, that's still.
13:31.469 --> 13:32.469
a pretty big hole because
13:32.589 --> 13:39.709
if they know that you're trying to apply to that, then they can do something with that pretty easily.
13:40.269 --> 13:41.949
Yep, exactly right.
13:42.629 --> 13:48.709
And it looks like that job site was down for a while while they were getting it under control.
13:48.709 --> 13:58.829
And then it seems like it's back up now.
13:58.829 --> 14:02.029
They were on AWS GovCloud and
14:04.349 --> 14:06.029
We'll have to wait and see if there's any more.
14:06.109 --> 14:14.349
Since it's probably really sensitive information, I'm not sure how much data they're going to give us on what exactly happened or what data was leaked.
14:14.349 --> 14:28.949
But I guess until we find out from shiny hunters if they release it or if the FBI says exactly what was taken, we may not figure out exactly what happened.
14:29.709 --> 14:32.669
But shiny hunters came out and said, hey, we're not doing it for the money.
14:32.669 --> 14:34.229
We're doing it to protect ourselves.
14:34.229 --> 14:38.029
And I'm not sure how that follows, but you know.
14:39.149 --> 14:41.869
I'm sure there's some political spin on it too.
14:42.109 --> 14:43.189
I bet there is, yeah.
14:44.269 --> 14:48.029
Or maybe it's just a test for the applicants, for the cybersecurity applicants for the FBI.
14:48.029 --> 14:52.349
And they're just like, hey, go, go, go, go figure out how this happened.
14:52.429 --> 14:54.509
Go, yeah, go figure out what this was.
14:56.189 --> 14:57.229
Well, yeah.
14:57.709 --> 14:58.109
And
15:03.429 --> 15:08.269
hopefully they've got this patched up and figured out exactly how they got in.
15:09.149 --> 15:12.269
And the right thing to do would be to honestly let us know.
15:12.269 --> 15:16.189
And that way other organizations aren't taken advantage of in the exact same manner.
15:17.589 --> 15:17.789
Yeah.
15:19.389 --> 15:27.749
Well, speaking of this, I don't know if you saw that Cloudflare has announced that they're
15:28.749 --> 15:42.909
going to start issuing quantum safe encryption certificates, which I think we've been looking forward to and expecting for quite some time, and we just may not have known exactly how to implement it.
15:44.349 --> 15:53.229
But a new type of encryption is in the works and
15:54.549 --> 15:58.189
Cloudflare plans to start issuing certificates in 2027.
15:59.389 --> 16:11.469
So one of the things that current or a lot of encryption schemes today have been reliant on is the amount of computing power it takes to break them.
16:12.589 --> 16:23.869
And I think some TLS certificates that are 1024 bit in the past, it's been estimated that it would take
16:24.749 --> 16:33.709
500,000 to a million processor core hours to break a certificate, which is an enormous amount of time and compute power.
16:34.189 --> 16:37.309
So it would be prohibitively expensive in order to do that.
16:39.629 --> 16:53.069
But I think certain types of encryption was actually had an attack vector that came out last week as well that that brought that down into the thousands of core hours.
16:54.429 --> 16:55.989
or the 10s of thousands of core hours.
16:55.989 --> 16:58.509
So an order of magnitude less amount of time.
16:58.509 --> 17:17.069
So I think it's probably time that this gets put into place because quantum computers can theoretically break non-quantum safe encryption in an extremely short period of time.
17:18.509 --> 17:22.669
And this new method called Merkle tree certificates
17:23.869 --> 17:37.389
is something that is going to replace traditional web PKI certificates and bring us into that quantum safe encryption era.
17:39.389 --> 17:42.189
So they're saying that's not coming until next year though?
17:42.829 --> 17:48.989
Yeah, they said the first quarter of 2027 is when they expect to start issuing the first certificates for it.
17:50.109 --> 17:52.829
I'm guessing that they've got to get the infrastructure in place.
17:53.789 --> 18:04.669
And I'm sure they've got to do some testing and get everything brought up to scale because Cloudflare does it at an enormous scale.
18:05.309 --> 18:09.589
It seems like though that they're not going to charge any more for it, which is nice.
18:09.589 --> 18:13.549
I guess it'll be exclusive to them.
18:14.829 --> 18:17.149
It sounds like that at this point, yes.
18:18.189 --> 18:19.629
They are going to
18:22.509 --> 18:32.269
use a root certificate, an already trusted root certificate from CA GlobalSign, which is probably the largest root certificate distributor.
18:32.989 --> 18:41.229
So that'll be in kind of the tree of the encryption chain or the certificate chain.
18:42.909 --> 18:50.669
But right now, CloudFlare is the first one that I'm aware of that says they plan to start issuing public quantum safe TLS certificates.
18:51.669 --> 18:52.509
Let's encrypt.
18:52.869 --> 18:53.509
Let's get it going.
18:53.909 --> 18:55.069
Let's get it together.
18:55.309 --> 18:56.029
I know, right?
18:56.589 --> 18:57.949
That's going to be really good.
18:57.949 --> 19:02.669
Well, hopefully that they pave the way and that there's many more that soon follow.
19:05.229 --> 19:19.469
I mean, while quantum computers aren't, you know, readily available to the normal people, I'm sure that, you know, in the next 10 years, large organizations are going to start having a more and more
19:20.629 --> 19:41.309
Assuming that assuming that we find more uses for them other than than, you know, educational purposes or research purposes or, you know, yeah, just just purely theoretical testing.
19:41.309 --> 19:45.629
I mean, I will have to see how pervasive they become soon.
19:45.629 --> 19:48.989
I think the promise of them hasn't fully panned out yet.
19:50.149 --> 19:53.869
we're going to have super intelligence figuring all that out too, right?
19:53.869 --> 19:54.189
Exactly.
19:56.109 --> 19:56.589
Yes.
19:57.069 --> 19:57.229
Yeah.
19:57.229 --> 19:58.829
Now that it's officially the new name.
19:58.989 --> 19:59.669
We'll get the SI.
19:59.669 --> 19:59.789
Yeah.
19:59.789 --> 20:03.909
I mean, yeah.
20:04.989 --> 20:06.829
Maybe it's just like Twitter.
20:06.829 --> 20:08.309
I'm not going to stop calling it Twitter.
20:08.309 --> 20:09.949
I'm not going to stop calling it AI.
20:10.949 --> 20:11.789
Yeah, exactly.
20:12.109 --> 20:17.549
Well, maybe the maybe the SI can figure out how to make better use of quantum computers.
20:18.549 --> 20:18.709
Yeah.
20:21.949 --> 20:27.709
speaking of AI, I think we'd seen a couple of things kind of similar to this.
20:28.349 --> 20:33.869
one was AI models keep posting screenshots showing sensitive data inside tech companies.
20:34.829 --> 20:40.349
And I think this is, I don't know, I'm on the fence on this behavior.
20:40.349 --> 20:45.389
It seems like it's kind of behaving like an intern would, just not knowing better.
20:46.669 --> 20:48.509
But it sounds like what's happening here is that
20:49.949 --> 21:02.669
a developer will go and ask an AI model to generate some code and then show a screenshot of the before and after of the application.
21:02.829 --> 21:16.509
And because there's not a clear method of sharing the screenshot with the developer, the AI model goes and creates a public GitHub repository and posts the screenshots there.
21:17.629 --> 21:18.109
So
21:19.309 --> 21:36.229
Yeah, it's finding a solution to the problem without explicitly being told what to do, which is kind of like what you'd expect from an entry level intern who may not know better that that's not a good idea and could potentially cause security problems.
21:36.229 --> 21:41.269
And this, it sounds like from the report, it's not limited to one specific AI model.
21:41.269 --> 21:44.269
There are a whole bunch of different AI agents were doing it.
21:44.269 --> 21:47.389
So it seems like a problem
21:50.989 --> 21:57.069
if you're doing AI development, man, you got to be really diligent about what the application is doing.
21:57.629 --> 22:01.389
Well, and is that common for it to generate a screenshot?
22:01.389 --> 22:05.789
I feel like it would, you know, create like a sandbox application.
22:06.029 --> 22:11.269
Yeah, no, it's being explicitly told by the developer to create screenshots.
22:11.269 --> 22:13.149
So that's the scenario where
22:14.909 --> 22:18.269
it goes and finds a place to put screenshots.
22:18.989 --> 22:34.829
So if the AI is being told by the human that it needs a screenshot or an image created and it doesn't have a place to put that, it's going to go create a place to put it and put it there.
22:36.269 --> 22:39.549
And I wonder if that code of conduct would cover this.
22:40.549 --> 22:42.269
Yeah, let's see, probably not.
22:42.269 --> 22:55.869
I think this probably needs to be built into the model itself or the tuning of the model where it tells it, hey, unless explicitly told, do not share something publicly.
23:00.189 --> 23:01.949
I can see that being in the code of conduct too.
23:01.949 --> 23:04.989
I mean, that seems like a solid rule.
23:05.069 --> 23:11.389
Yeah, but lean towards privacy whenever possible or unless explicitly told not to.
23:11.389 --> 23:13.549
That would be a really good one to add.
23:13.709 --> 23:14.589
Yeah, 100%.
23:14.589 --> 23:19.549
I'm going to have to go back and check, take a look at the Microsoft code of conduct.
23:20.829 --> 23:22.909
And Brett, I think you could have something added there.
23:22.909 --> 23:24.989
Maybe they'll give you credit.
23:24.989 --> 23:26.109
Yeah, you are.
23:27.149 --> 23:27.789
Man.
23:30.149 --> 23:31.069
Breaking in the money.
23:31.149 --> 23:32.749
That's why they pay him the big bucks.
23:35.949 --> 23:47.869
Yep, Well, this one, speaking of developers, this is kind of a developer driven one was Microsoft has announced general availability of Linux containers on Windows.
23:47.869 --> 23:51.789
So the Windows subsystem for Linux has been around for a little while.
23:52.269 --> 23:55.829
It's a feature you can turn on in order to run Linux applications.
23:55.829 --> 23:56.989
And it's basically
23:58.029 --> 24:02.589
It's A Linux OS running in Hyper-V behind the scenes.
24:03.069 --> 24:09.229
And then they give you a command line window into that Linux virtual machine.
24:10.429 --> 24:21.949
And WSL has been a dependency on a lot of applications, especially for developers and people who need to use Linux applications that may not necessarily have a dedicated Linux machine.
24:22.749 --> 24:27.629
Well, this is kind of built on top of that, where you can run Linux containers
24:29.069 --> 24:32.429
on Windows and so I'm not sure if this is going to be a separate
24:32.589 --> 24:43.229
feature within Windows or if it is going to be a new feature for WSL that just allows you to run Linux containers.
24:44.189 --> 24:51.149
Which maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like I saw somewhere, I don't know, last year or two that WSL was going away.
24:52.189 --> 24:52.749
Really?
24:53.389 --> 24:59.149
I don't know what I read or what I remember, but maybe it's like the 32, I don't know.
24:59.869 --> 25:10.909
I swear I saw something about WSL going away in some capacity, but I have no idea what it is because it seems like they're, looking at this alone, they're expanding it more and more each day.
25:11.789 --> 25:16.029
Yeah, I mean, there would be an uprising if WSL went away.
25:16.029 --> 25:20.029
I use it quite regularly for testing purposes.
25:23.389 --> 25:28.029
And man, I'm sure a ton of developers also use it.
25:28.829 --> 25:33.309
It's a really, really popular product or feature, I guess, under Windows.
25:33.709 --> 25:36.589
Well, and there's a ton of production software that uses it.
25:37.149 --> 25:37.469
Yeah.
25:38.269 --> 25:45.709
I mean, we use it internally for some security subsystems that do network monitoring.
25:45.869 --> 25:57.629
So some applications that may have been developed on Windows, they can be repackaged in kind of a way that they can run on a Windows machine with the WSL
25:58.269 --> 26:12.909
Which is super helpful because if you already have a Windows box just laying around on the network for that scenario, it's super easy to just throw that on there instead of having to like spin up some Linux VM or dual boot Linux on something.
26:13.549 --> 26:13.709
Yeah.
26:14.109 --> 26:15.789
I mean, I think this will be really interesting.
26:15.869 --> 26:17.869
I mean, it's been around for a little while.
26:17.869 --> 26:19.549
So there are third party products.
26:19.549 --> 26:28.149
Docker Desktop is a really popular one that has a GUI and a
26:28.349 --> 26:32.989
a command line that you can run on Windows and you can download containers.
26:32.989 --> 26:47.949
So I've used this quite a bit for old legacy systems where you cannot get old versions of, say, things like Java or an old browser version that needs Flash.
26:48.669 --> 26:54.669
And you can just run them as a container and perform whatever maintenance you need to do.
26:54.669 --> 26:57.789
And then you just throw the container away when you're done.
26:58.789 --> 27:04.509
But there's a ton of web applications that are running containers you can use.
27:05.949 --> 27:08.829
I use Docker desktop all the time for testing in that purpose.
27:08.829 --> 27:17.069
And then once you're happy with it, you just spin the same container up on a server and now you have a full-blown server that you know works.
27:17.069 --> 27:18.429
You've used it, you've tested it.
27:19.949 --> 27:24.829
And it seems like now you're going to have the ability to do that without any third-party software straight on Windows.
27:25.669 --> 27:26.589
That's pretty cool.
27:27.309 --> 27:28.989
Is it out yet or is it rolling out?
27:28.989 --> 27:30.029
It's out.
27:30.029 --> 27:34.989
So they said it's general availability now as of yesterday.
27:36.349 --> 27:43.309
So you can download the latest release on GitHub by just doing, it sounds like WSL dash dash update.
27:44.509 --> 27:54.029
And you'll get the WSLC is the container manager that runs in Windows.
27:55.069 --> 27:55.549
Nice.
27:56.269 --> 28:02.029
speaking of recent rollouts, do you see that Windows 1126 H2 is available now?
28:02.909 --> 28:04.509
I did see that.
28:04.749 --> 28:08.029
And I mean, good.
28:10.109 --> 28:30.269
there was some weird thing at first where they released 26H2, but it was only for ARM devices, but you could still download the 26H2 ISO, install it on an Intel machine, but once you installed it on an Intel machine, it would, like you're locked at that level and you can't update after the fact, something like that.
28:30.269 --> 28:30.669
Oh, weird.
28:31.309 --> 28:32.669
Yeah, it was crazy.
28:32.749 --> 28:39.509
But no, it's, I've seen it already hit our patch management, so it's rolling out pretty.
28:40.069 --> 28:40.669
pretty quick.
28:41.069 --> 28:41.389
Wow.
28:41.629 --> 28:45.869
Yeah, I had heard that Microsoft had said, hey, this is here.
28:46.269 --> 28:57.949
And it's kind of a maintenance release where they weren't expecting for there to be many compatibility issues or problems with it, which time will tell whether or not that's true or not.
28:57.949 --> 29:01.229
So yeah, exactly famous last words.
29:02.269 --> 29:03.949
But hopefully it goes out pretty smooth.
29:04.189 --> 29:06.269
It hasn't hit my Windows update yet, but
29:06.749 --> 29:16.669
I'm sure that I'll probably try to install it here in the next week or so just to make sure that, got to drink your own champagne or eat your own dog food.
29:17.869 --> 29:21.949
I mean, if we go by that, those standards, we should be running the insider builds.
29:22.829 --> 29:23.869
I'm not going to do that.
29:25.229 --> 29:26.109
I'm not that brave.
29:29.869 --> 29:34.989
Well, yeah, here's another one that we had talked about a little bit.
29:35.869 --> 29:39.549
ago was AI taking our jobs.
29:40.349 --> 29:44.269
That had been the big concern was the developers were getting laid off.
29:45.709 --> 29:52.269
And then it came back around, whoops, maybe this is more of an augmentation tool rather than a job replacement tool.
29:55.229 --> 30:03.149
And it seems like with new unemployment data, with new graduates, it's as low as it's ever been.
30:05.069 --> 30:13.629
at least in the past, let's see, we're looking at five years or so of jobs data.
30:16.349 --> 30:23.589
So it looks like the unemployment rate for new graduates kind of spikes right after graduation, kind of May, June, July.
30:23.589 --> 30:28.509
And then it comes back down every year in August, September, October, November, December.
30:30.509 --> 30:33.149
But it looks like right now,
30:33.629 --> 30:44.349
We're actually below average unemployment rate for new graduates, which kind of goes counter to what everything we've heard about AI taking everyone's jobs.
30:45.389 --> 30:54.589
Yeah, and I agree that's the right way to think about it, because I remember, I think I went to a Microsoft conference a year or two ago, and that's kind of what the vibes were.
30:54.669 --> 31:02.989
They were always saying that, you know, we're in the first stages of AI, eventually we'll get to a point where instead of AI helping you,
31:03.629 --> 31:13.669
and you instructing AI what to do, you can just treat it as a full employee or multiple employees and you're managing different agents to do work for you.
31:14.669 --> 31:23.709
But I don't know, I definitely think that it's more of an assistant as opposed to a full replacement for a person.
31:23.789 --> 31:27.869
And I don't really see it ever being a full replacement for a person.
31:28.589 --> 31:32.109
at least not in the, I would say in the next few years anyway.
31:32.109 --> 31:47.869
There's really no, you don't, an AI assistant or an AI model doesn't have kind of that human intuition and training and world experience and people skills and all of that kind of stuff that, a good employee will have.
31:49.389 --> 31:54.429
I'm sure there's going to be some things that are going to hit the cutting room floor first.
31:56.269 --> 32:15.469
And who knows, they may come back like image editors and, video creators, AI videos have been around, but there's kind of been pushback against that now where you can kind of tell that AI generated content, at least in visual, in the visual space, it has that feel to it.
32:16.189 --> 32:23.949
And I've seen where, you know, media companies like that have realized it and
32:25.309 --> 32:35.309
There has been some, maybe even more demand for content that doesn't look like AI so that they can set themselves back apart again.
32:35.469 --> 32:37.869
So it's kind of like a pendulum swing.
32:37.949 --> 32:41.709
It went too far and now people are freaking out and saying, hey, what the heck?
32:41.709 --> 32:44.109
And it kind of corrected itself a little bit.
32:45.269 --> 32:52.469
But especially for like application development, it makes perfect sense to be a
32:52.549 --> 32:56.989
an augmentation of a programmer, not a replacement.
32:57.869 --> 33:04.669
Because a lot of what you learn when you're a programmer is creating systems.
33:05.389 --> 33:10.189
So, you know, Brett, you did programming quite a bit, right?
33:10.189 --> 33:14.429
So what was the first thing you did when you're planning an application?
33:15.989 --> 33:17.709
That's been so many years ago.
33:17.949 --> 33:20.349
You kind of create like a flow chart for it, right?
33:20.349 --> 33:32.189
Like a pseudo program where you would say you'd have if then statements and say, hey, you got to think like a developer in order to make an application.
33:32.189 --> 33:42.509
And that same skill set comes in and you are able to use AI as an augmentation for that skill set.
33:43.549 --> 33:51.629
So all it does is you're going to have less carpal tunnel and the same amount of programmers, I think is what it's going to wind up being.
33:52.189 --> 33:53.469
I mean, that's not a bad thing.
33:54.269 --> 33:54.589
Oh, yeah.
33:55.389 --> 34:00.069
It's definitely going to accelerate the pace of application development.
34:00.069 --> 34:04.829
And I think we're going to get a whole lot more application and code written.
34:04.829 --> 34:08.589
I mean, that's absolutely going to be for sure.
34:11.549 --> 34:12.189
And so
34:12.989 --> 34:18.029
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of one of those things where if you make code easier, you're just going to get more of it.
34:20.269 --> 34:31.589
And there's definitely some easy things to build apps out there and build different, code based things, whether it's a web app or a full desktop app or a mobile app.
34:31.629 --> 34:35.069
I mean, just the Microsoft Copilot app builder.
34:35.069 --> 34:37.309
I mean, that's pretty dang good.
34:37.789 --> 34:38.189
Yeah.
34:39.309 --> 34:47.669
And we've used it internally for some testing reasons and then actually to build some, one-off tools for visualization.
34:47.669 --> 34:49.309
And it's been great for that.
34:49.309 --> 34:58.029
And, those wouldn't have been things that we would have actually sat down and developed or paid an application developer to do.
34:58.589 --> 35:07.869
So we're just getting more productivity by having these tools as opposed to
35:08.909 --> 35:12.429
not hiring a programmer because we can do it on our own.
35:14.189 --> 35:22.189
So I think I agree with this assessment from Ars Technica where, hey, it's not here to take our jobs, at least not yet.
35:24.600 --> 35:27.160
Well, remember everything we talked about, the Copilot Plus piece.
35:29.170 --> 35:29.810
I sure did.
35:29.810 --> 35:31.090
Some pretty cool features in there.
35:31.490 --> 35:32.530
Yeah, forget all of it.
35:34.210 --> 35:34.370
Good.
35:34.490 --> 35:36.050
Well, at least most of it.
35:36.650 --> 35:51.170
So a fellow Brett, Brett Ostrom, the corporate VP of Surface over at Microsoft, I guess to back up, Microsoft announced their new Surface hardware a couple weeks ago.
35:52.290 --> 35:57.250
And weirdly missing was the Copilot Plus PC moniker for any of those models.
35:58.130 --> 36:14.450
So I guess there was some confusion on the future of Copilot Plus PCs, but he came out to Windows Central and said, these new models do not meet all the, or do meet all the requirements for our previous bar for what Copilot Plus devices are.
36:15.330 --> 36:20.610
We still lean into the narrative around AI on the edge and being able to have a hybrid solution out there.
36:20.610 --> 36:31.250
So he's essentially saying, yeah, this hardware still meets the requirements for what we were calling a copilot plus PC in the past, but it sounds like they're weaning off that name.
36:31.250 --> 36:36.690
And I don't know, maybe anything in the future that has those capabilities.
36:37.490 --> 36:42.850
I don't know how we'll distinguish other than looking at the specs or maybe
36:43.410 --> 36:49.730
Those specs will be the new minimum for Windows 11 and every PC will be a Copilot Plus PC.
36:49.730 --> 36:53.170
So it sounds like it's just a marketing change on their part.
36:54.090 --> 36:54.850
Pretty much, yeah.
36:55.570 --> 37:05.250
I mean, again, they're saying the new hardware, it's going to support all of the fancy AI stuff that a Copilot Plus PC would do just without the name.
37:05.730 --> 37:11.010
You'll still have the Copilot button on the keyboard, but there's no sticker.
37:11.890 --> 37:12.130
Yeah.
37:14.290 --> 37:25.730
I mean, that kind of reminds me of, I guess, what were some of the Intel badges you could get on your machine, like Intel Evo or Intel Ultrabook or Intel Centrino.
37:26.130 --> 37:27.570
It wasn't actually a thing.
37:28.530 --> 37:29.090
I know.
37:29.570 --> 37:34.650
It was a collection of technologies that were associated with the processor, not just the processor itself.
37:34.650 --> 37:36.850
So that kind of sounds like what this is.
37:38.210 --> 37:39.250
Copilot Plus PC.
37:39.250 --> 37:44.050
So you had to have the memory and the NPU and you had to have the CPU that went with it.
37:44.770 --> 37:47.330
I mean, that's what Intel Centrino was way back in the day.
37:47.330 --> 37:51.890
It was the CPU plus the Wi-Fi plus, you know, a couple of other features.
37:54.450 --> 38:01.690
So it sounds like to me, the Copilot Plus features are not going away.
38:01.690 --> 38:05.170
They're just going to stop marketing it as such.
38:06.130 --> 38:06.370
Yeah.
38:06.450 --> 38:06.770
Right?
38:07.650 --> 38:08.530
Yeah, pretty much.
38:08.530 --> 38:11.170
But I mean, again, that begs the question, how do you tell?
38:11.330 --> 38:12.050
How do you tell?
38:12.050 --> 38:13.170
Yeah, that's a big one.
38:14.370 --> 38:24.410
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm sure they're going to come up with something new because I mean, the Kobot Plus PC branding was only around since 24.
38:24.410 --> 38:26.770
So it's only been two years that they've had that out.
38:26.770 --> 38:35.410
So I'm sure they're working on something new to distinguish, you know, higher end laptops more capable of local AI.
38:35.810 --> 38:36.290
Right.
38:36.450 --> 38:36.730
Yeah.
38:37.890 --> 38:39.570
I mean, hopefully there's something.
38:39.570 --> 38:46.530
I think you're right, because otherwise I don't want to go and make sure that it has the correct NPU.
38:46.770 --> 39:01.890
It's pretty easy to tell what the RAM and the storage is on a machine, but I wonder if they're just expecting and we're not there yet, because you can still buy processors today that have an old enough NPU that it won't support it.
39:03.170 --> 39:03.490
But
39:04.810 --> 39:07.170
At some point in the future, they probably all will.
39:08.770 --> 39:13.730
But will it be enough for, will they still require that minimum of what, 50?
39:14.850 --> 39:16.610
Right, 40, something like that.
39:16.610 --> 39:18.610
Yeah, whatever it was.
39:19.250 --> 39:20.450
See, I already forgot everything.
39:21.170 --> 39:21.890
Exactly.
39:22.930 --> 39:23.810
Thanks, Microsoft.
39:24.210 --> 39:27.250
Well, I mean, that's in true Microsoft fashion.
39:29.090 --> 39:32.290
Abandoning a product after only a couple of years.
39:35.010 --> 39:35.250
Yeah.
39:36.370 --> 39:43.970
I mean, I think it's a good idea to be able to know what hybrid AI capabilities your machine has.
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And I'm sure that they would have had to change it eventually because it's going to evolve.
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The laptops are going to get, not laptops, but the CPU, the computers are going to get more capable, more powerful, be able to run features that older ones from today may not
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be able to run.
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So, I wonder, maybe it's going to be Copilot plus PC2 or something.
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I don't know.
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Whatever the follow-up is going to be.
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And, there's a strong possibility they're going to rename Copilot as a whole.
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So what do they do then?
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Maybe this is the start of that process.
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Maybe they're dropping that so they can rename Copilot.
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It could be.
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You may be exactly right.
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Gosh, we'd have to go.
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We'd have to go visit the Microsoft renaming website to keep track of the 400 plus products that Microsoft has and the probably 20 of them that have Copilot in the name somewhere.
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That's everywhere.
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Everything has Copilot.
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Yeah, it sure is.
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I feel like everybody hated that name in the beginning, but I think it makes sense.
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Yeah, no, it's not bad.
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I think that
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when you start, they started applying it to things that didn't necessarily fit, it started to get a little weird.
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But I think, having the AI assistant beat Copilot is kind of the perfect use case for it.
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I thought it was a pretty good name, but yeah, I don't want to have to go re-explain to everybody that, hey, Copilot is now
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Cortana.
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I mean, I wouldn't be mad at that though.
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I would not be mad at that.
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Yeah.
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Although I have flashbacks of setting up like 5 plus computers at one time and the out of box experience for Windows 10 where Cortana starts talking to you.
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Just out of nowhere.
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Yeah.
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And you just do all five at the same time.
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Yeah, freaks out.
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Yes.
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Oh, yep.
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Vivid memories of that.
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Yeah.
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But I mean, it seems like this is following kind of a larger trend of, hey, maybe AI marketing was a fad for a little while because everything was AI.
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You know, you'd go to, you'd look at coverage of Computex or any one of the technology trade shows and everything would be AI fans, AI power supplies.
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your AI monitor, and it's not.
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It's, I mean, sure, you could connect it to a computer that does AI, and then they would slap the AI logo on it.
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And it seems like.
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Yeah, they changed the word algorithm to AI.
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So everything that has some sort of process is now AI.
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Exactly.
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So it seems like maybe the fad of marketing everything as AI has kind of swung the other way a little bit.
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And so
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like Dell has gotten away from the AI PC naming scheme as well, as well as other products.
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So maybe it's just the idea of AI PCs are kind of fading and it's becoming the norm as opposed to a cool new feature.
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Yeah, which is fine.
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But I still think there needs to be some sort of
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label or moniker or something to easily distinguish what's a more powerful CPU in a laptop or desktop.
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I agree.
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I agree.
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Well, I mean, that's another thing right now is that, you know, there are not many desktops that have NPUs in them.
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It seems at least up until recently, it was a laptop only like hardware feature where, you know, in a desktop PC, you may have a more powerful
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GPU, but that still doesn't meet the specification for a Copilot Plus PC.
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True.
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So I'd be curious that the next generation of Intel and AMD processors introduce an NPU, I'm sure that they will, they'll have to.
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I mean, it's been around in the Apple ecosystem for several years now.
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I think starting in maybe the
44:19.050 --> 44:25.730
Was it the M2s, maybe the M3s started adding a dedicated NPU onto the processor.
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And they've been around for a little while now on both the AMD and the Intel side for laptops, but just not in the desktops for whatever reason.
44:38.650 --> 44:39.890
But yeah, I agree with you.
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I think we need to bring some kind of labeling back in so that we're able to tell, hey, what meets the requirement and what doesn't, just at a glance.
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Yeah.
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But do you think that would be something Intel and AMD needs to do or something that Microsoft should do or the OEM?
44:58.210 --> 44:59.810
Yeah, that's a really good question.
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I think it makes the most sense for Microsoft to do it since they're the ones making the software.
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And that way it fits across really any ecosystem.
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But I mean, going back to the Centrino example, that was Intel because it's all hardware based for the most part.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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No, you're exactly right.
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I mean, I guess in theory it could be you could have the say the manufacturer put it on there.
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I'm not sure that Intel or AMD.
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Well, I take that back.
45:38.130 --> 45:41.010
AMD puts it right in the processor name for laptops these days.
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They have the Ryzen AI processor.
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They put it right in the model name.
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Intel hasn't so far done that.
45:50.210 --> 45:59.490
But if Microsoft is going to stop, it may be up to the OEMs like Dell or Lenovo, HP to help you differentiate between the models.
46:00.090 --> 46:08.770
Yeah, I feel like that's going to get messy quick just because every OEM is going to have a different naming scheme to tell you what hardware is capable.
46:09.090 --> 46:17.210
Yeah, that's kind of why it's this is kind of a surprising announcement because Microsoft I think was in the best position to let you know what was capable and what wasn't.
46:18.050 --> 46:19.890
and they were going so hard on it too.
46:20.450 --> 46:20.770
Right.
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Like they went all in on that.
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and I can't imagine it would be.
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easy to find whether or not it was an effective marketing that they had going with it because some people may just be buying the more powerful machine or some people may have bought it, bought a more powerful machine because it said it was copilot plus capable.
46:49.810 --> 46:53.170
So I bet there's a lot of confusion around it.
46:53.730 --> 47:01.730
A lot of people buying these copilot plus PCs and then they get it booted up and they're like, I don't, I still have to pay for copilot each month.
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I thought I bought it.
47:03.010 --> 47:04.690
You know, that's a really good point.
47:04.690 --> 47:06.130
Man, you're on A roll today, Brett.
47:07.170 --> 47:12.890
Yeah, I mean, I could definitely see that scenario where somebody would buy it and say, hey, where's my copilot?
47:12.890 --> 47:13.570
I don't have it.
47:14.050 --> 47:16.250
Yeah, because that's a.
47:16.250 --> 47:21.410
They got the local AI features, but as far as like the more advanced, I guess, chat bot,
47:23.010 --> 47:24.210
Yeah.
47:25.970 --> 47:33.090
I mean, I can only imagine, and at least I would hope that they'll come up with some sort of replacement for the moniker.
47:33.090 --> 47:41.570
They'll have some other marketing branding that'll go along with it.
47:43.810 --> 47:50.290
I mean, I haven't seen any indication of this yet, but to your point, I bought the copilot PC, where's my copilot?
47:50.970 --> 48:00.930
could possibly be a, some sort of class action lawsuit come up where they, somebody bought it for a reason.
48:00.930 --> 48:02.490
They didn't get that thing.
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And now they're mad.
48:05.570 --> 48:20.290
But dropping this marketing name kind of admits to that effect that, hey, maybe there was confusion between what the differences between all the things that Microsoft names copilot.
48:22.290 --> 48:23.890
Windows Copilot is next.
48:24.210 --> 48:24.490
Yeah.
48:26.530 --> 48:28.330
There's no file explorer or anything.
48:28.330 --> 48:29.290
It's just a chat bot.
48:29.290 --> 48:30.210
You do everything in chat.
48:31.370 --> 48:32.090
Exactly.
48:33.250 --> 48:34.250
Oh, God, don't tell me that.
48:34.250 --> 48:36.930
Yeah, it's going to be just like Jarvis or whatever.
48:36.930 --> 48:39.570
You just talk to the computer is the only thing you can do.
48:40.130 --> 48:43.090
But then it hallucinates and orders you DoorDash.
48:43.570 --> 48:43.850
Yeah.
48:44.370 --> 48:49.650
Well, there's a really good YouTube channel.
48:51.090 --> 48:51.890
by a guy named Sean.
48:51.890 --> 48:53.170
It's Action Retro.
48:54.130 --> 49:01.730
And he came up with this moniker, at least it was the first time I saw it, was he vibe coded an entire operating system for a computer.
49:02.450 --> 49:04.690
And he called it the slop rating system.
49:05.250 --> 49:07.250
And I thought that was just brilliant.
49:07.370 --> 49:18.050
And so I could definitely see where you get to a point where, you know, you're not, you're less and less interfacing with a computer.
49:18.690 --> 49:25.970
as a file in a window type thing, you're interfacing with a chat or a voice command type interface.
49:26.930 --> 49:30.970
Well, they've been trying to do voice command type type stuff for years.
49:30.970 --> 49:32.850
It's never caught on for me.
49:32.850 --> 49:36.690
I don't know about you, but I don't like talking to my stuff.
49:37.250 --> 49:37.650
Yeah.
49:38.130 --> 49:43.090
Well, I mean, there's one of the recent things in the Linux world
49:43.730 --> 49:48.170
that's been a big deal was a Linux release called Omarchy.
49:48.170 --> 49:50.450
I don't know if you've seen this.
49:50.450 --> 50:02.450
It's based on Arch, which has traditionally been the most difficult distribution of Linux to install and to run because you have to do everything yourself.
50:03.090 --> 50:12.370
Well, somebody came along and wrote kind of an interface for it that makes the operating system as easy as could possibly be.
50:13.730 --> 50:18.850
But the way that you interface with it is through an AI chatbot.
50:19.170 --> 50:24.690
And so you can still use Windows, you can still use keyboard command shortcuts, you can do all that kind of thing.
50:25.770 --> 50:28.130
But say you wanted to change the interface.
50:29.170 --> 50:35.010
All you had to do, all you have to do is put into the chatbot, hey, I would like for you to add an additional
50:37.490 --> 50:51.730
interface element like a window icon or a window button or rearrange the theme in a different way for the operating system and it would go and do that and then you would just it would be that way on your computer.
50:53.010 --> 51:03.250
So and all that would be just generated on the fly rather than having other applications to install to modify or settings existing settings to change that.
51:04.450 --> 51:04.930
So
51:05.730 --> 51:14.690
It kind of seems like maybe that will be a fad or a trend, or maybe that's going to be the future is just an AI-centric operating system.
51:15.690 --> 51:16.370
Interesting.
51:17.170 --> 51:20.370
And possibly the year of the Linux desktop.
51:21.010 --> 51:25.890
I know we've been saying that for years, but I feel like it's starting to catch on, especially with the framework laptops.
51:26.370 --> 51:33.250
Yeah, framework laptops and Steam, weirdly, from the gaming side has made really
51:34.370 --> 51:49.610
huge strides into that, where they have putting a bunch of development into making Windows applications run on Linux and then making the interface more or less standardized.
51:49.610 --> 51:55.010
I mean, there are thousands of Linux distributions out there and they all behave differently.
51:55.890 --> 52:02.610
But one gigantic company like Steam coming behind and creating, for lack of a better word,
52:03.490 --> 52:07.810
a standard may increase adoption.
52:09.090 --> 52:10.530
But yeah, you're right.
52:10.530 --> 52:21.170
I think that there are actually some government organizations or governments that are looking towards Linux as a replacement for Windows.
52:23.410 --> 52:32.290
And it may be feasible with most applications today being available as a web application, software as a service.
52:34.530 --> 52:43.450
I think I'm hesitant to try it day-to-day, but I think there's a light at the end of that tunnel.
52:43.450 --> 52:45.250
I think there definitely could be.
52:45.330 --> 52:49.490
I think, from an individual standpoint, I think it's definitely doable now.
52:49.490 --> 52:53.730
I think anybody could probably get it and figure it out and be able to run it day-to-day.
52:54.530 --> 53:01.890
From a corporate standpoint, it makes it a little more difficult just because the management ecosystem is not there
53:02.570 --> 53:03.250
for Linux.
53:03.250 --> 53:23.970
I mean, we can get things like, antivirus and managed detection and response and endpoint detection and response and, some automation policies deployed to it, but it's not near as robust as what's available for Windows, say through Active Directory or Intune.
53:24.610 --> 53:27.490
So I think that's kind of the big limiting factor right now is that
53:30.490 --> 53:38.690
kind of the corporate management security policy is just not there yet.
53:39.650 --> 53:43.090
And maybe that'll change with vibe coding with AI development.
53:43.090 --> 53:44.530
I don't know if that'd be a good thing though.
53:44.890 --> 53:46.690
Yeah, well, that's true.
53:46.690 --> 53:58.370
But if somebody was working on it, you know, a small developer, a small, you know, software studio, maybe just before didn't have the resources because they
53:59.770 --> 54:01.410
It's kind of the chicken and the egg thing, right?
54:01.410 --> 54:08.370
Nobody's going to write an application for it if the demand is not there, but the demand's not going to be there because there's no application for it.
54:09.010 --> 54:23.250
So if the barrier to entry to come in and be able to create a management platform for Linux is lowered, then you may get more adoption and just snowballs a little bit.
54:24.290 --> 54:24.410
Yeah.
54:27.490 --> 54:32.850
speaking of management and corporate security, we appreciate you spending part of your day with us.
54:32.850 --> 54:36.770
And remember, good IT isn't just about tools and software.
54:37.410 --> 54:39.810
It's about having the right people in your corner.
54:40.170 --> 54:49.730
If today's discussion raised questions about your orgs, technology or security posture, reach out to Harvest at harvestitsolutions.com or using the link in the description.
54:50.370 --> 54:54.690
We help businesses turn technology challenges into business advantages.
54:55.010 --> 54:56.130
And we'll see you next time.
