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This Saturday episode of New Politics was released on the
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thirtieth of May twenty twenty six and produced on the
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lands of the Wongle and Gadigal people.
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Has the National Anti Corruption Commission ever lived up to
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its promise? And why has its commissioner resigned after less
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than three years in the job. When an anti corruption
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body fails to investigate corruption, the entire political system loses
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its credibility. I'm Eddie Jokovic, I'm David Lewis.
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All of this is coming up in this big episode
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of New Politics.
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This is an historic moment. First and foremost, the people
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of the Commonwealth are no longer prepared to tolerate practices
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which might once have been the subject of, if not acceptance,
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at least acquiescence. You have clearly expressed the desire for
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a Commonwealth anti corruption agency. In doing so, it has
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enacted legislation which embodies the best practice principles for corruption commissions.
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That was the Commissioner of the National Anti Corruption Commission,
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Paul Breton, speaking in July twenty twenty three when the
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Commission was first created, and he has resigned from his position.
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You did that during the week and he suggested that
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there was too much focus on him personally and it
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was drawing attention away from the work of the National
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Anti Corruption Commissioner. It's just a pity, David that it
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took him three years to work this out. But Paul
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Burton was a totally inappropriate choice in the first place.
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He's had to or he had to recuse himself from
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so many of the hearings because he knew the people
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who were fronting up to him at the Anti Corruption Commission.
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Says a lot about him as a commissioner as well,
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and also because he had so many relationships with people
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in the military who were fronting up to the National
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Anti Corruption Commissioner as well, and even then he didn't
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recuse himself fully. He also continued to work with the
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Inspector General at the Australian Defense Force after he did
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become the commissioner. So essentially, David, that's one problem out
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of the way, But I think the bigger problem is
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the National Anti Corruption Commission itself. It's close to useless
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because it's so ineffective. It's almost a case of it
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would be better if it wasn't there at all. And
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this is a really big mess for them, like the government. Now,
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sure it might not affect everyone in the electorate out there,
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but it was introduced in July twenty twenty three with
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big fanfare and it's really failed to do its job.
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It does affect everybody because if the system is corrupt,
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the system is not fit for purpose. The model they
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should have used was a New South Wales model set
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up by Liberal Attorney General John Dowd under the Grinder government.
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And they appointed Ian Tenby who was a Queen's Council
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then State's Council today and Tenby was a man of
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unimpeachable integrity, tenacious as all get out, fearless and knew
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that the job he had to do was more important
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than the relationships that I think it was expected he
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protect almost instantly, they get results. Corrupt council off fears,
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state ministers, state opposition ministers. Now Nick Groener had set
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it up to try and get rid of the new
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Southhals labor right. I did investigate the labor right, but
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for all of the faults of the labor right, they
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were pretty procedurally honest.
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They ended up getting rid of himself, and.
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It ended up getting rid of himself. He tried to
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put Terry Metherrill into the position ahead of the EPA. Now,
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as Griner pointed out, Metherill was eminently qualified to run
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the job. But it was so obviously a way to
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get Metherill out of the Liberal seat that he had
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become an independent in so that the Liberals could win
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it back, that the Commission said, this is corrupt. Griner
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took it to the new Soophal Supreme Court, who found
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that IKAC had overstepped their bounds in one way. It
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was a technicality, which Griner said, oh, this has cleared
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my name. And to be fair, a lot of voters
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thought that, well he acted corruptly. He wasn't personally corrupt,
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that he had overstepped his.
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Mark generally, but I think it's like it is a
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really missed opportunity because I think that when the Anti
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Corruption Commission was created, it's only three years old, but
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I think that there were a lot of public expectations
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about it being successful. And this was after the years
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of scandals from the Morrison government. Mainly the Morrison government.
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There was Roboda at the Sports for aughts, massive blowouts
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on consultancy fees, all of those deals that Scott Morrison
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was trying to make with the Governor General at the time,
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and also the many ministries that he set up for himself.
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And I think generally just that growing distrust in politics
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in itself, and I think the Old and Easy government
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said that the National Anti Corruption Commission what was a
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historic democratic reform that would restore integrity and accountability to
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public life. Nearly three years on, and I think it
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is coming up to three years. You think where are
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all the major political investigations. There haven't been any, and
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they've secured a small number of convictions. It's eleven people
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or eleven convictions over the past three years, so that's
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less than four per year, and most of them, I
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think there's been about four of those that have been
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sent to jail. The rest of them have been given
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community service and stuff like that, and all of it
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has been lower level public sector miss contact. They haven't
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touched any senior politicians or uncovered any major corruption. And
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you could argue, well, these investigations are legally complicated and
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might take a few years. They've already had a few years,
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and this is what they've come up with. It's a
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very cautious organization. It's very secretive. No one really knows
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what it's doing. Seen by Paul Burton, didn't even know
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what it was doing. But the general public. And this
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is a conversation that's been going on for well over
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a decade. Well, they want the general public wanted something
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quite powerful. They wanted a very anti corruption body. But
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we've ended up with something that's quite weak and quite powerless.
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Robo debt was the test. Now, let's think this through
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a little bit. You don't want to set it up
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so it even looks like you've gone after the other side.
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So I get an element of caution there that you
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don't want to set it up. And suddenly you've arrested
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eleven x liberal ministers and no ex labor ministers for example.
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But David. I want to see people in stocks in
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Martin Place. That's what I want to see. Rotten tomatoes,
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rotten vegetables. Yeah, that's what I want to see.
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Robo debt was such a thing that everyone involved in
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that decision making process, which was seen to be wrong,
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being told this can't work, it's illegal. Do it anyway.
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At that point you've broken the law when your legal
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advice is saying this is illegal. It'd be like if
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you came to me, Eddie and said let's go and
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rob a bank and I said sure, and then I claimed, oh,
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I didn't realize Eddie asked me to do it. I
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thought it must have been legal, even though.
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I'm impressed that you think that I'm the sort of
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person that would be capable of doing that.
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But it showed the arrogance of the Morrison government that
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they thought Morrison thought he was so deeply loved he'd
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get away with it. I'd get the Michael Scott vibe.
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Do you want to be loved or feared? I want
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to want them to fear how much they love me
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type thing. But yeah, Morrison should have gone down. I
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should have been sent to trial. It's unlikely they would
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have gone to jail. And of course you had the
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Gladys Spiroduclian response to Kak, which was not to leave
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it alone, but to say, oh, this is getting a
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bit close to our political side, let's cut the funding.
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Mike bed cut the funding. Glad to sporadically and cut
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the funding. I suspect Dominic Perite were to cut the
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funding had he had the chance. But for a long
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time i CAC itself was untouchable. That it was set
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up with a set budget that could not be adjusted
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except added to.
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Change the legislation for that.
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But the government now has an opportunity to set it
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up properly. I don't know that they can re contest robodebt.
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Sadly there might be a possibility for that, but I
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just feel that most of the public anger surrounding the
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National Anti Corruption Commission like it's I think it's directly
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related to the leadership of Paul Verish, and he mentioned
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it before. The defining issue was with robodebt, where many
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people we commented on that at the time there's a
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lot of people that behave very corruptly within this process.
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Nothing many people would have expected that the National Anti
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Corruption Commission would have inspected or investigated the ministers, the
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Prime Minister, and the senior public servants who were associated
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with them. We have to remember that the findings of
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the Robo Royal Commission, they were held back a bit.
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I think it was by a couple of weeks or
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something like that, so it could be referred to the
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Anti Corruption Commission, which hadn't been created at that time,
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and I think was just behind by about two weeks.
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But the Anti Corruption Commission will fail to investigate any
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of these people, none of these people at all, none
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of them. And also Paul Breton, I've mentioned that he's
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probably the cause of a lot of this anger, but
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he had to recuse himself over perceptions of conflict of
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interest because he knew so many people who were going
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to be appearing in front of him. It was like
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it was happening every lunch break, you know, you know, Oh,
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where's Paul Berton. I'm sorry, he's gone off for lunch
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because he can't appear in front of someone at the
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Commission because there's a conflict of interest there. And I
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think Paul and became a symbol of that broader problem
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at the Anti Corruption co Coubition I think he's right
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that he's resigned and he's gone, and we call for
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him to.
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Go to Really, yeah.
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That's right, but he never should have been there in
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the first place.
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I don't know what Mark Dreyfuss was thinking in that
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he didn't even put in ex labor lawyers. There was
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the woman whose top qualification she resigned last week. She
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was put on unders the Commissioner, which was against the guidelines,
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and the commission say that you've got to be a
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fairly senior lawyer. And there's this complex hierarchy in the law.
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They know exactly who they're talking about when they say
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senior lawyer. Her top qualification was a diploma in hotel management.
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Now I'm not disparaging her abilities or her competence, but
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she shouldn't have got the job because she just wasn't qualified.
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So I don't know what the attorneys general were thinking
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when they appointed a lot of these people. As I said,
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if they were labor hacks who happened to be lawyers,
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it's say, okay, typical, that's not good either. But they
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were people who the Liberal Party would have appointed. And
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maybe this is one of the reasons that Mark Dreffiss
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gets rolled. Of the many reasons that he gets rolled for,
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maybe this is one of the unspoken ones. That he
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watched the knack so badly that it was either get
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rolled now or wait for it all come crashing down
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and it'll be worse for you. I don't know, but
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there's a scenario in which that's a possibility.
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Ah. But it's also a case where this was set
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up in exactly the way that the government wanted to
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wanted it to be set up, because I think one
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of the biggest problems with this National Anti Corruption Commission
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is that it was never designed to operate like all
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the other powerful state anti crush and bodies around Australia.
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Some of them are very powerful, some of them are
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a little bit weaker, but they're all pretty pretty strong,
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particularly the new South Wales IKC Independent Commission Against Corruption.
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But with the National body, there's no public hearings. There's
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a lot of legal issues as well. There's a lot
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of behaviors that most people would think would be corrupt,
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and all of that lobbying and inside influence, the revolving
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door Doyle of politics, all of the pork barreling access
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to donors, and a lot of people feel that this
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is either open to corruption or it's actually corrupt itself,
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but it doesn't actually qualify as corruption under federal laws,
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so that's a problem in itself. And there's also a
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lot of problems with finances. It's got limited resources. I'm
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sure it's got sixty million dollars in its budget each year,
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but that's not much to do with the thousands of
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referrals that they're looking at. But despite all of that funding,
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they're just not finding any corruption. But it just seems
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like it was all designed to appear to be tough
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on corruption with being too dangerous for the government politically,
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which is, well, that's a corruption itself when you look
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at it that way.
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Yeah, it's been a massive, massive disappointed. In fact, back
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in the glory days of twenty twenty three, what were
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the three things that labor were really to put the
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bilo Whala family back home, which they did opening night
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or election night, and and the other one failed too,
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and it was quietly swept under the carpet and put
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into the two hard basket. But then the knack was
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the one that I think was the priority. The Bilo
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Whala family was easy. It's a stroke of the minister's
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pen and the alb and Easy rightly announced it on
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election night. It also meant that they could forget oh
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the whistleblowers. Of course, whistleblowers are still in jail, still
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fighting for their right to blow the whistle.
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Dan Dugan is also in jail for no good reason.
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Dan Dugan.
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Yeah.
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I Meanwhile, the Benner of Smith thing might be a
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small step in the right direction there, but we'll have
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to see what the courts say if the courts get him.
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I've understand I've heard rumors and I don't know that
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they're true, that he's actually not in the country now,
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But I don't know if that's true, if that's just
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wishful thinking from either his supporters or the people who
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don't expect anything will come from it. Hello to Ben
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if he's listening, well, maybe.
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Joining Ronald Biggs in Brazil. You never know.
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Yeah. And the other thing too is that you will
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never completely stamp corruption out. But a good knack or
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a good eye CAAC or a good anti corruption commission
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should work as a strong enough to terrant that it's
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that it stops a lot of corruption before it starts.
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Oh, that's absolutely right. Dover. You're never going to get
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rid of corruption. I think it's a human condition, but
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the idea is to reduce it as much as possible,
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and it's still pretty much an open door. But I
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think that generally the frustration we're showing today, and also
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that's experienced by a lot of people in the community
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surrounding this Anti Corruption Commission, I think it's reflective of
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that broader frustration with the alb and Easy government itself
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or shared by us Mainly. A lot of people might
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be saying, look, we don't have that opinion, and that's fine,
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but that's the opinion that we have. And it's just
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the many of the reforms that were promised. This idea
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of these reforms becoming big transformations hasn't really happened. It's
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only delivered this sort of cautious, half hearted approach, and
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I think the KNAK is indicative of that. And even
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though the National Anti Corruption Commission was this reform implemented
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by the alb and Easy government, that's something that needs
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to be reformed as well. You alluded that to that before,
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but it just needs to be reformed. There also needs
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to be stronger whistleblower protections. If it's going to ever
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function as a genuine anti corruption mission.
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This is New Politics independent analysis of Australian and international politics.
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For more free articles and analysis, join us at Newpolitics
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dot com dot au.
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Full time role? How many hours are included in this contract?
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What services are being Senator?
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We can take that on notice, but there are pursuant
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to the procurement rules there in the contract has key
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performance indicators of a different periods of time in response
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to what is needed in relation to the Royal Commission.
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So this is not.
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A full time no, no, no, So just an advisory contract.
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Yep. So two one thousand dollars just for ad hoc advice.
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I didn't say that, Senator. It's for that. There are
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key performance indicators in the contract and it's paid on
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a monthly basis for monthly, so what's and again, Senator
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would be my staff who signed off on the Battle
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for Money proposition, So we'd be happy to take any.
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That'd be greatness loss, maybe on notice, Like you know
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the invoicing. Is it an hourly, No.
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It's great monthly, it's monthly.
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But it included that is an hour. Do you have
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to account for the hours that you've actually worked or
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is it even if we don't need any services in March,
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we still pay you.
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I don't know.
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I have to take that on notice, Senator.
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Just this way, we have the case where Jillian Siege,
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or the Special Envoy for Anti Semitism, she provided a
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contract to a company run by Yaran Thinkle's son. He
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was a former chief of staff to the Morrison government
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of Scott Morrison, and that was a contract worth two
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hundred thousand dollars without going to a tender. And we
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also have the law firm Gilbert and Tobin that was
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given the contract to be the Council assisting of the
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Royal Commission into Anti Semitism and Social Cohesion. Again got
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large sums of money but there's no tender. And I
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think that's actually quite a corrupt process. But it's never
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going to be investigated by the Anti Corruption Commission in
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the way that it's operating at the moment when it
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probably should be. So in this particular case, got an
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unelected official giving out contracts to more people who were unaccountable,
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and that is something that to me is open to
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corruption and it actually looks a little bit like corruption
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as well. And I just think that this is going
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to be an ongoing problem when the political system just
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seems to be incapable of minimizing that corruption that we
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talked about before. You're not going to stamp it out completely,
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but the guy is to minimize that within government and
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can't even be bothered looking for it when these problems
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do arise, and I think we just have to wait
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to see who the new commission is going to be,
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but that's probably not going to make that much difference
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until the system or the Commission itself changes, and it's
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going to be more or less the same unless the
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overall commission does change.
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Yeah, now is the time to fix it, and they
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could probably do a lot of good and repair at
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least some of the damage. They're never going to repair
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the grief of the people who committed suicide Judorobo and
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have now watched those responsible go scott free, and I
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use Scott had.
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We weren't going to mention any names. But also but.
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You can restire public faith in it and have it
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as it should be the best in the federation, better
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than New South Wales, better than Victoria, better than the
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South Australia, and those are high standards. But that's what
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it should be. Anything under that and it's just a
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it's a best a political weapon to hook into your opponents.
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At worst, it's a placebo which won't work because people
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see the corruption anyway and say, yes, it went to
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the knack. It's becoming a joke and you don't want that.
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That's it for this episode of New Politics. Thanks for
363
00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.880
listening in, and if you value independent journalism without the
364
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.920
influence of corporate backing, join New Politics at newpolitics dot
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com dot u and support us directly. It's just five
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some support our way. It keeps our commitment to independent
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journalism ticking along. By Amedi Djokovic. Thanks for listening in,
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00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:55.200
and it's goodbye to our listeners.
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I'm David Lewis. We'll see you next time.
1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.960
This Saturday episode of New Politics was released on the
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00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:06.240
thirtieth of May twenty twenty six and produced on the
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lands of the Wongle and Gadigal people.
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00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:20.559
Has the National Anti Corruption Commission ever lived up to
5
00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:24.160
its promise? And why has its commissioner resigned after less
6
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than three years in the job. When an anti corruption
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00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:31.280
body fails to investigate corruption, the entire political system loses
8
00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.439
its credibility. I'm Eddie Jokovic, I'm David Lewis.
9
00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:37.799
All of this is coming up in this big episode
10
00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:38.719
of New Politics.
11
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:42.799
And if you're listening in and haven't subscribed to our
12
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website at New Politics, you're missing out on half of
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what we do. There's regular articles and analysis of this
14
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strange world of politics. It's all free and you can
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subscribe at newpolitics dot com dot au and of course,
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if you do want to support us, it's just five
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dollars per month at Patreon and substantle and all of
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this is a good way to support independent journalism.
19
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This is an historic moment. First and foremost, the people
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of the Commonwealth are no longer prepared to tolerate practices
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which might once have been the subject of, if not acceptance,
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at least acquiescence. You have clearly expressed the desire for
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a Commonwealth anti corruption agency. In doing so, it has
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enacted legislation which embodies the best practice principles for corruption commissions.
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That was the Commissioner of the National Anti Corruption Commission,
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Paul Breton, speaking in July twenty twenty three when the
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Commission was first created, and he has resigned from his position.
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You did that during the week and he suggested that
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there was too much focus on him personally and it
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was drawing attention away from the work of the National
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Anti Corruption Commissioner. It's just a pity, David that it
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took him three years to work this out. But Paul
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Burton was a totally inappropriate choice in the first place.
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He's had to or he had to recuse himself from
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so many of the hearings because he knew the people
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who were fronting up to him at the Anti Corruption Commission.
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Says a lot about him as a commissioner as well,
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and also because he had so many relationships with people
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in the military who were fronting up to the National
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Anti Corruption Commissioner as well, and even then he didn't
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recuse himself fully. He also continued to work with the
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Inspector General at the Australian Defense Force after he did
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become the commissioner. So essentially, David, that's one problem out
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of the way, But I think the bigger problem is
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the National Anti Corruption Commission itself. It's close to useless
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because it's so ineffective. It's almost a case of it
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would be better if it wasn't there at all. And
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this is a really big mess for them, like the government. Now,
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sure it might not affect everyone in the electorate out there,
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but it was introduced in July twenty twenty three with
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big fanfare and it's really failed to do its job.
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It does affect everybody because if the system is corrupt,
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the system is not fit for purpose. The model they
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should have used was a New South Wales model set
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up by Liberal Attorney General John Dowd under the Grinder government.
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And they appointed Ian Tenby who was a Queen's Council
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then State's Council today and Tenby was a man of
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unimpeachable integrity, tenacious as all get out, fearless and knew
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that the job he had to do was more important
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than the relationships that I think it was expected he
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protect almost instantly, they get results. Corrupt council off fears,
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state ministers, state opposition ministers. Now Nick Groener had set
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it up to try and get rid of the new
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Southhals labor right. I did investigate the labor right, but
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for all of the faults of the labor right, they
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were pretty procedurally honest.
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They ended up getting rid of himself, and.
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It ended up getting rid of himself. He tried to
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put Terry Metherrill into the position ahead of the EPA. Now,
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as Griner pointed out, Metherill was eminently qualified to run
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the job. But it was so obviously a way to
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get Metherill out of the Liberal seat that he had
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become an independent in so that the Liberals could win
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it back, that the Commission said, this is corrupt. Griner
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took it to the new Soophal Supreme Court, who found
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that IKAC had overstepped their bounds in one way. It
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was a technicality, which Griner said, oh, this has cleared
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my name. And to be fair, a lot of voters
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thought that, well he acted corruptly. He wasn't personally corrupt,
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that he had overstepped his.
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Mark generally, but I think it's like it is a
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really missed opportunity because I think that when the Anti
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Corruption Commission was created, it's only three years old, but
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I think that there were a lot of public expectations
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about it being successful. And this was after the years
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of scandals from the Morrison government. Mainly the Morrison government.
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There was Roboda at the Sports for aughts, massive blowouts
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on consultancy fees, all of those deals that Scott Morrison
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was trying to make with the Governor General at the time,
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and also the many ministries that he set up for himself.
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And I think generally just that growing distrust in politics
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in itself, and I think the Old and Easy government
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said that the National Anti Corruption Commission what was a
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historic democratic reform that would restore integrity and accountability to
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public life. Nearly three years on, and I think it
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is coming up to three years. You think where are
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all the major political investigations. There haven't been any, and
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they've secured a small number of convictions. It's eleven people
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or eleven convictions over the past three years, so that's
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less than four per year, and most of them, I
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think there's been about four of those that have been
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sent to jail. The rest of them have been given
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community service and stuff like that, and all of it
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has been lower level public sector miss contact. They haven't
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touched any senior politicians or uncovered any major corruption. And
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you could argue, well, these investigations are legally complicated and
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might take a few years. They've already had a few years,
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and this is what they've come up with. It's a
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very cautious organization. It's very secretive. No one really knows
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what it's doing. Seen by Paul Burton, didn't even know
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what it was doing. But the general public. And this
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is a conversation that's been going on for well over
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a decade. Well, they want the general public wanted something
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quite powerful. They wanted a very anti corruption body. But
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we've ended up with something that's quite weak and quite powerless.
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Robo debt was the test. Now, let's think this through
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a little bit. You don't want to set it up
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so it even looks like you've gone after the other side.
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So I get an element of caution there that you
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don't want to set it up. And suddenly you've arrested
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eleven x liberal ministers and no ex labor ministers for example.
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But David. I want to see people in stocks in
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Martin Place. That's what I want to see. Rotten tomatoes,
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rotten vegetables. Yeah, that's what I want to see.
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Robo debt was such a thing that everyone involved in
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that decision making process, which was seen to be wrong,
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being told this can't work, it's illegal. Do it anyway.
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At that point you've broken the law when your legal
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advice is saying this is illegal. It'd be like if
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you came to me, Eddie and said let's go and
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rob a bank and I said sure, and then I claimed, oh,
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I didn't realize Eddie asked me to do it. I
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thought it must have been legal, even though.
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I'm impressed that you think that I'm the sort of
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person that would be capable of doing that.
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But it showed the arrogance of the Morrison government that
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they thought Morrison thought he was so deeply loved he'd
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get away with it. I'd get the Michael Scott vibe.
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Do you want to be loved or feared? I want
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to want them to fear how much they love me
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type thing. But yeah, Morrison should have gone down. I
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should have been sent to trial. It's unlikely they would
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have gone to jail. And of course you had the
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Gladys Spiroduclian response to Kak, which was not to leave
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it alone, but to say, oh, this is getting a
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bit close to our political side, let's cut the funding.
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Mike bed cut the funding. Glad to sporadically and cut
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the funding. I suspect Dominic Perite were to cut the
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funding had he had the chance. But for a long
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time i CAC itself was untouchable. That it was set
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up with a set budget that could not be adjusted
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except added to.
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Change the legislation for that.
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But the government now has an opportunity to set it
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up properly. I don't know that they can re contest robodebt.
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Sadly there might be a possibility for that, but I
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just feel that most of the public anger surrounding the
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National Anti Corruption Commission like it's I think it's directly
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related to the leadership of Paul Verish, and he mentioned
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it before. The defining issue was with robodebt, where many
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people we commented on that at the time there's a
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lot of people that behave very corruptly within this process.
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Nothing many people would have expected that the National Anti
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Corruption Commission would have inspected or investigated the ministers, the
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Prime Minister, and the senior public servants who were associated
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with them. We have to remember that the findings of
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the Robo Royal Commission, they were held back a bit.
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I think it was by a couple of weeks or
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something like that, so it could be referred to the
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Anti Corruption Commission, which hadn't been created at that time,
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and I think was just behind by about two weeks.
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But the Anti Corruption Commission will fail to investigate any
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of these people, none of these people at all, none
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of them. And also Paul Breton, I've mentioned that he's
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probably the cause of a lot of this anger, but
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he had to recuse himself over perceptions of conflict of
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interest because he knew so many people who were going
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to be appearing in front of him. It was like
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it was happening every lunch break, you know, you know, Oh,
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where's Paul Berton. I'm sorry, he's gone off for lunch
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because he can't appear in front of someone at the
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Commission because there's a conflict of interest there. And I
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think Paul and became a symbol of that broader problem
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at the Anti Corruption co Coubition I think he's right
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that he's resigned and he's gone, and we call for
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him to.
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Go to Really, yeah.
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That's right, but he never should have been there in
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the first place.
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I don't know what Mark Dreyfuss was thinking in that
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he didn't even put in ex labor lawyers. There was
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the woman whose top qualification she resigned last week. She
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was put on unders the Commissioner, which was against the guidelines,
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and the commission say that you've got to be a
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fairly senior lawyer. And there's this complex hierarchy in the law.
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They know exactly who they're talking about when they say
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senior lawyer. Her top qualification was a diploma in hotel management.
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Now I'm not disparaging her abilities or her competence, but
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she shouldn't have got the job because she just wasn't qualified.
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So I don't know what the attorneys general were thinking
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when they appointed a lot of these people. As I said,
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if they were labor hacks who happened to be lawyers,
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it's say, okay, typical, that's not good either. But they
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were people who the Liberal Party would have appointed. And
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maybe this is one of the reasons that Mark Dreffiss
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gets rolled. Of the many reasons that he gets rolled for,
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maybe this is one of the unspoken ones. That he
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watched the knack so badly that it was either get
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rolled now or wait for it all come crashing down
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and it'll be worse for you. I don't know, but
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there's a scenario in which that's a possibility.
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Ah. But it's also a case where this was set
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up in exactly the way that the government wanted to
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wanted it to be set up, because I think one
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of the biggest problems with this National Anti Corruption Commission
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is that it was never designed to operate like all
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the other powerful state anti crush and bodies around Australia.
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Some of them are very powerful, some of them are
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a little bit weaker, but they're all pretty pretty strong,
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particularly the new South Wales IKC Independent Commission Against Corruption.
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But with the National body, there's no public hearings. There's
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a lot of legal issues as well. There's a lot
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of behaviors that most people would think would be corrupt,
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and all of that lobbying and inside influence, the revolving
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door Doyle of politics, all of the pork barreling access
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to donors, and a lot of people feel that this
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is either open to corruption or it's actually corrupt itself,
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but it doesn't actually qualify as corruption under federal laws,
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so that's a problem in itself. And there's also a
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lot of problems with finances. It's got limited resources. I'm
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sure it's got sixty million dollars in its budget each year,
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but that's not much to do with the thousands of
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referrals that they're looking at. But despite all of that funding,
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they're just not finding any corruption. But it just seems
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like it was all designed to appear to be tough
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on corruption with being too dangerous for the government politically,
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which is, well, that's a corruption itself when you look
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at it that way.
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Yeah, it's been a massive, massive disappointed. In fact, back
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in the glory days of twenty twenty three, what were
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the three things that labor were really to put the
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bilo Whala family back home, which they did opening night
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or election night, and and the other one failed too,
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and it was quietly swept under the carpet and put
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into the two hard basket. But then the knack was
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the one that I think was the priority. The Bilo
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Whala family was easy. It's a stroke of the minister's
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pen and the alb and Easy rightly announced it on
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election night. It also meant that they could forget oh
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the whistleblowers. Of course, whistleblowers are still in jail, still
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fighting for their right to blow the whistle.
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Dan Dugan is also in jail for no good reason.
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Dan Dugan.
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Yeah.
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I Meanwhile, the Benner of Smith thing might be a
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small step in the right direction there, but we'll have
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to see what the courts say if the courts get him.
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I've understand I've heard rumors and I don't know that
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they're true, that he's actually not in the country now,
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But I don't know if that's true, if that's just
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wishful thinking from either his supporters or the people who
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don't expect anything will come from it. Hello to Ben
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if he's listening, well, maybe.
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Joining Ronald Biggs in Brazil. You never know.
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Yeah. And the other thing too is that you will
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never completely stamp corruption out. But a good knack or
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a good eye CAAC or a good anti corruption commission
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should work as a strong enough to terrant that it's
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that it stops a lot of corruption before it starts.
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Oh, that's absolutely right. Dover. You're never going to get
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rid of corruption. I think it's a human condition, but
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the idea is to reduce it as much as possible,
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and it's still pretty much an open door. But I
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think that generally the frustration we're showing today, and also
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that's experienced by a lot of people in the community
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surrounding this Anti Corruption Commission, I think it's reflective of
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that broader frustration with the alb and Easy government itself
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or shared by us Mainly. A lot of people might
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be saying, look, we don't have that opinion, and that's fine,
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but that's the opinion that we have. And it's just
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the many of the reforms that were promised. This idea
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of these reforms becoming big transformations hasn't really happened. It's
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only delivered this sort of cautious, half hearted approach, and
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I think the KNAK is indicative of that. And even
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though the National Anti Corruption Commission was this reform implemented
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by the alb and Easy government, that's something that needs
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to be reformed as well. You alluded that to that before,
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but it just needs to be reformed. There also needs
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to be stronger whistleblower protections. If it's going to ever
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function as a genuine anti corruption mission.
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This is New Politics independent analysis of Australian and international politics.
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For more free articles and analysis, join us at Newpolitics
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dot com dot au.
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Full time role? How many hours are included in this contract?
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What services are being Senator?
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We can take that on notice, but there are pursuant
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to the procurement rules there in the contract has key
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performance indicators of a different periods of time in response
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to what is needed in relation to the Royal Commission.
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So this is not.
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A full time no, no, no, So just an advisory contract.
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Yep. So two one thousand dollars just for ad hoc advice.
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I didn't say that, Senator. It's for that. There are
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key performance indicators in the contract and it's paid on
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a monthly basis for monthly, so what's and again, Senator
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would be my staff who signed off on the Battle
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for Money proposition, So we'd be happy to take any.
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That'd be greatness loss, maybe on notice, Like you know
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the invoicing. Is it an hourly, No.
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It's great monthly, it's monthly.
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But it included that is an hour. Do you have
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to account for the hours that you've actually worked or
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is it even if we don't need any services in March,
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we still pay you.
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I don't know.
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I have to take that on notice, Senator.
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Just this way, we have the case where Jillian Siege,
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or the Special Envoy for Anti Semitism, she provided a
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contract to a company run by Yaran Thinkle's son. He
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was a former chief of staff to the Morrison government
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of Scott Morrison, and that was a contract worth two
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hundred thousand dollars without going to a tender. And we
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also have the law firm Gilbert and Tobin that was
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given the contract to be the Council assisting of the
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Royal Commission into Anti Semitism and Social Cohesion. Again got
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large sums of money but there's no tender. And I
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think that's actually quite a corrupt process. But it's never
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going to be investigated by the Anti Corruption Commission in
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the way that it's operating at the moment when it
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probably should be. So in this particular case, got an
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unelected official giving out contracts to more people who were unaccountable,
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and that is something that to me is open to
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corruption and it actually looks a little bit like corruption
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as well. And I just think that this is going
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to be an ongoing problem when the political system just
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seems to be incapable of minimizing that corruption that we
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talked about before. You're not going to stamp it out completely,
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but the guy is to minimize that within government and
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can't even be bothered looking for it when these problems
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do arise, and I think we just have to wait
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to see who the new commission is going to be,
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but that's probably not going to make that much difference
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until the system or the Commission itself changes, and it's
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going to be more or less the same unless the
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overall commission does change.
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Yeah, now is the time to fix it, and they
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could probably do a lot of good and repair at
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least some of the damage. They're never going to repair
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the grief of the people who committed suicide Judorobo and
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have now watched those responsible go scott free, and I
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use Scott had.
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We weren't going to mention any names. But also but.
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You can restire public faith in it and have it
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as it should be the best in the federation, better
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than New South Wales, better than Victoria, better than the
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South Australia, and those are high standards. But that's what
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it should be. Anything under that and it's just a
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it's a best a political weapon to hook into your opponents.
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At worst, it's a placebo which won't work because people
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see the corruption anyway and say, yes, it went to
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the knack. It's becoming a joke and you don't want that.
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That's it for this episode of New Politics. Thanks for
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listening in, and if you value independent journalism without the
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influence of corporate backing, join New Politics at newpolitics dot
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com dot u and support us directly. It's just five
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dollars per month and we always try to keep it
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very simple. If you like what we do, please send
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some support our way. It keeps our commitment to independent
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journalism ticking along. By Amedi Djokovic. Thanks for listening in,
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and it's goodbye to our listeners.
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I'm David Lewis. We'll see you next time.
