S6: E5 Turning 50, Dodging Back Spasms, And Smashing Toilets For Science... And Why It's Important for Leaders To Be Curious

WEBVTT
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It's not about the spotlight.
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It's not about the birthday.
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I said it man.
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I said it man.
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So you look at the reggae, man.
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All right, name that show.
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I said it man.
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I say that would be the Cosby show.
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Uh yeah.
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Early, early, early, early Cosby show.
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One of Denise's man.
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So you look at the reggae.
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Gregory.
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It's nice to be back.
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Dr.
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Hoffman.
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Dr.
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Kunz.
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Hey, welcome back to Bucks County.
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It's been a while.
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It really has been.
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It's been a couple months.
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It's been a couple months.
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People are harassing me about where the episodes are.
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Yeah, I I've been harassed as well.
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And uh big 50 for me, buddy.
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In the meantime.
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Oh January 28th.
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I turned uh yeah, turned 50.
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50 years.
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Yeah.
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Oh, half a century.
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Half a century, and you're gonna love this.
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Go ahead.
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I had to get lumbar support for my car.
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You know you're old when you have back spasms.
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When I hit 45, I got my first back spasm.
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Yeah, literally.
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I was at a way at the conference where you were, and uh I literally bent over to put my shoes on.
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I'm like, oh you tweaked it.
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I tweaked it.
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Did you have a spasm?
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It was just you'd still be in pain if you had a spasm.
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No, it was it was not that major.
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But it was enough to you know meet me.
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To remind you?
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That's Mother Nature reminding you.
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Yeah.
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It's like, yeah, you're 50 now.
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It's lower back.
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Welcome.
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Welcome to the world of 50.
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Crazy.
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Crazy, man.
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Aman.
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Aman.
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Aman.
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So let's go with some 80s trivia.
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It's my turn to ask Dr.
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Hoffman some questions.
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80s trivia.
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I have trivia for you too, but we'll save that for another episode.
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Maybe another episode.
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Okay.
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Yeah, go ahead.
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Go ahead.
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Go ahead.
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So fun, fast, nostalgic 80s questions.
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Here's your first one.
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Okay.
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What 80s TV theme song lives rent-free in your brain?
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What 80s TV theme song?
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I know.
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So I'm getting I I I got the I got it.
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The hint is in the question.
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Lives rent free.
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So mine was Greatest American Hero, just so you know.
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Oh, you're asking me questions.
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I thought those were trick questions.
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No, this is not trick questions.
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I just want you.
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I just want you to come up with one.
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Easy.
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I got it.
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What is that?
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Here we are, face to face, a couple of silver spoons.
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You know that's not silver spoons.
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Ricky Schroeder.
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Ricky Schroeder.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that was cool.
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With two of a kind.
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Making it up.
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Making it grow.
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Two cas.
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All right, anyway.
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I'm not a singer, so I really apologize for that, everybody.
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Silver spoons lives right free in my head.
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Okay.
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Sorry.
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Next question.
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Next question.
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What 80s fashion trend should never come back?
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What 80s fashion Z Cavaricis?
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Help me with that.
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You don't remember Z's?
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Z Cavaricis and Mary Garound t-shirts, they were the big, they were almost like MC Hammer pants.
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They were pleated and baggy at the waist and then real tight.
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And then on the zipper, that was a white like tag that was sewn down vertically.
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I remember.
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And they were like a hundred bucks back in the 80s, which was like an insane amount of money to pay today, let alone the 80s.
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Though Z's might have been the 90s, but that's close enough.
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I'm going to go Z.
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Cavaricis.
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You can you can fact check me on whether that was like 93 or 88.
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I have no idea.
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Okay.
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All right.
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I love great answer.
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All right.
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What about you?
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What's yours?
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So so mine is jams.
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Very similar.
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Similar.
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Like baggy pants, right?
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Baggy jams.
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I mean, I I think I wore them to the prom one year.
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Yeah, I think before we talked about skids, too.
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Remember skids?
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Not skid marks.
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Not skid marks.
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Let's let's clarify.
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All right.
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So um, all right, I digress.
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Uh so uh the next one is uh which 80 sitcom house would you want to live in?
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Oh, that's a great question.
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Uh how about Webster?
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Because didn't Webster's house have all the secret passages?
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It's like behind the clock stuff.
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Yeah, all those passageways, yeah.
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You remember what the last name of the family was?
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Papadopoulos.
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Papadopoulos, that's right.
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That's right, Mr.
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Papadopoulos.
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And he called her ma'am.
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Yeah.
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George Papadopoulos.
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All good stuff.
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And I have one final one.
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Go ahead.
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Go ahead.
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Go ahead.
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If you were cast in an 80s teen movie, which stereotype would you be?
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The jock, the nerd, the rebel, or the popular kid?
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Um, I was the like the I was in like a punk rock band in high school.
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Right.
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So what do you think?
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I guess it's closer to I I wasn't a rebel.
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I wasn't causing problems, but I would probably be friends more with the rebel.
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Yeah.
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I would have been instigating the rebel to do bad things.
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Gotcha.
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I would have been like the rebels like whispering in his ear, oh, go do this.
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Okay.
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That's it lined up exactly with what I thought you were gonna say.
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What would you have been?
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Uh were you with the jacks?
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I kind of was.
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Yeah, I was.
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But I kind of got along with everyone.
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So did I.
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You know my personality.
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Yeah, I didn't I didn't have trouble in high school.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I honestly I, you know, we had all different different clicks.
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All different clicks, yeah.
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Yeah, but I in in high school, like you know, before uh at least my high school was you got there early and then you sat in the part of the high school, like before classes started with like your click.
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Yes, right.
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So I always sat with like the goths, the freaks, the punk rock kids, the skaters, the metalheads.
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That was my crew.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It makes sense.
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Makes sense.
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But yeah.
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I I like it.
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I like it.
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Well, did you say what house you wanted to live in?
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Um, I didn't, but you know, I just saw some recent footage of the Brady Bunch house.
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Uh-huh.
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And it's pretty cool.
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You'd have to share a room, though.
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But they didn't update it at all.
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Like that place would need to be updated.
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It's all like 70s retro.
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Did you you had to share a room growing up, so that wouldn't be weird.
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It wouldn't be weird.
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No, I had two with two brothers.
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Yeah.
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So just like the Brady Bunch.
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Just like the Brady Bunch.
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We had uh the you know, the bunk beds and I had the trundle underneath.
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Yeah.
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And it was back with wrestling.
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So Paul and Steve would, you know, they'd wrestle and they'd give it super flash snooka right up on top.
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You know, the people's elbow off the well, that's the rock, but the elbow off the uh the Rainy Macho Man Savage elbow off the top rope.
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Yeah, right into the ribs.
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Right into the ribs.
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Good to see you, brother.
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It's good to be back.
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Yeah, it's good to be seen.
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Good questions, I like it.
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Yeah.
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So uh I have more questions for future episodes, just so you know.
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I love it.
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Bring them on.
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Okay.
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Oh, wait.
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All right.
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So I I was thinking about this piece of leadership, curiosity.
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Go ahead.
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All right.
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So I think I'm thinking when you go through some someone you go through um elementary school, you lose that curiosity.
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You you lose you kind of group dynamics makes you afraid to bring things up, new ideas, those kinds of things.
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Yeah, social pressures.
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Social pressures, yeah.
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So I really do feel uh that we need to bring more curiosity to the leadership table.
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Right?
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Would you agree?
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Uh yeah, you need a a safe some psychological safety, a safe place psychologically for people to feel free to question things, push back, uh ask for clarification.
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Is that what you're saying?
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That's exactly what I'm saying.
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Yeah, and so like if the leader doesn't set the right tone, or if there are jerks on the cabinet or the team, right?
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Uh ain't gonna happen, right?
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Because people are gonna be afraid that if I'm if I say something, people are gonna attack me or roll their eyes or whatever, right?
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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You almost say like norms that say this is a safe space and the leader's gonna enforce the fact that it's a safe space.
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You got it.
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Exactly.
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So what do you got?
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So what I what I have here is an article called How the Art of Curiosity Transforms Leadership.
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All right.
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So um written by uh looks like it's written by Colleen Bashar or Bashar.
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Yeah, Forbes council member.
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That's it.
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So this could this is a Forbes article here.
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So it starts off saying we've all heard Curiosity Killed the Cat.
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And then it goes, uh, it talks about these uh these leadership pillars of vulnerability and authenticity.
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So there's curiosity, vulnerability, authenticity, and how important that is.
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So being vulnerable, you know, putting putting that out there so that you may receive criticism is the way I look at that.
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Yeah.
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Vulnerability is a willingness to um be perceived as um incorrect or weak or in or or fallible or correctable, right?
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You're you're being you're you're sharing something that would otherwise be guarded.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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And then authenticity, and I uh Mark, I think you do this very well, is you you show up, you're your true self.
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And I've seen you whether whether it's in a business meeting, right?
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Leadership meeting or in in your personal life, you you you're authentic in what you you know, what you bring to the table.
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Well, I feel I feel the same way about you with both of these things.
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I don't think we'd get along if I didn't think you were authentic or that you didn't show vulnerability.
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You know, you're you you model vulnerability actually in every season and almost every episode of this podcast because you're always willing to tell personal stories.
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Yeah.
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That's a level of vulnerability that I don't necessarily have.
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You share more about your private life than I do.
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Yeah, it absolutely.
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And uh speaking to that, I forgot to bring up when I was a kid, when I was a toddler, I was a recluse.
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Like I was I I was trouble.
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You know, I like I eat so much sugar, everything else.
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Well, yeah, and Snickers bars were your primary motivation.
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Snickers bars.
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I do anything.
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Shout out to like maybe season two.
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What would you do for a Snickers bar?
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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I'd do anything for a Snickers bar.
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So um, let me see that scar, by the way.
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Where's the scar on your forehead?
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Yeah, right there.
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Right there.
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And then how's the scar healing on your hand?
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It it's your two favorite friends on your group thread.
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They keep asking.
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They don't think it's real.
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They I had to show them in person.
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Yeah, he he definitely I mean, there's there's a photo of your hand close up where they've they've run it through AI to see if you're like putting makeup on your hand to create a scar.
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Exactly.
00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:02.240
I know.
00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:03.759
They yeah, they have all these theories.
00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:05.360
I've defended you each time.
00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:12.159
So, like I was said, I was a really rambunctious kid, and I did a couple different things out of curiosity.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.320
Uh, one was I stuck a bead up my nose.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:15.120
I love that.
00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.720
It was a yellow bead, and my mom they couldn't get the bead out.
00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:20.399
Okay so I had to go to the ER.
00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:25.759
And it was right when, you know, we had the electronic doors, and I'm just going back and forth through the doors.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.080
Yeah, and some lady put her head out.
00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:31.519
My mom didn't want to talk to anybody because she was embarrassed that I had a bead up in my nose.
00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:32.000
Love this.
00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:36.159
So this other lady looks over at my mother and is like, What's wrong with your boy?
00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:38.720
And she said, he has a bead in his nose.
00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:40.480
So she's like, Where do you want me to start?
00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:41.600
Yeah, yeah, right.
00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:43.200
There's there was a whole list.
00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:45.440
So they had to go with, you know, uh tweezers.
00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:46.080
Tweezers.
00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:51.519
They had to get up there and they they said it, they they they said it could have damaged the adenoid there.
00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:51.840
Yeah.
00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.080
So uh that was one of my curiosity pieces.
00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.600
Ask my wife if she knows anyone who put hollyberries up their nose when they were kids.
00:10:57.919 --> 00:10:59.279
Well, ask her if she knows anyone who did it.
00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.200
I won't say who did it, but ask her if she knows anyone.
00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:01.759
Yeah.
00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:07.200
So the other story, and my mother my mother would always tell these stories at you know, family parties and everything else.
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.919
So the other one is about I I took a hammer to the back of a toilet.
00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:16.720
Oh, like the uh uh, the water tank.
00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.480
And it went all over the place.
00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.240
And when they asked me why I did it, I said I wanted to hear what it sounded like.
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:23.120
Oh my god.
00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:25.360
And so she would tell these stories all the time.
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.759
But I'm my parents were very patient people putting up with me.
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:28.799
Well, oh, clearly.
00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.200
And and and thank God they cultivated your curiosity.
00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:32.559
Look how far it's taken you.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:33.360
Oh, I know.
00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:36.080
But it's you smashed a toilet recently?
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:36.720
I have not.
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.279
Have you shoved beads up your nose recently?
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:39.679
No.
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:40.559
So you learned.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:41.360
I learned.
00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:42.720
I didn't do it again.
00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.080
I didn't do it again.
00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:47.200
So uh so so back so back to this leadership article.
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:47.679
Yeah, I got it.
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:50.320
And I really I mean, it really should be innate.
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:53.200
Like we talk about when we're kids, we're naturally curious.
00:11:53.440 --> 00:12:02.960
Something happens along the way as you're doing uh with development that you lose this and you're worried about the group dynamics, you're worried about saying the wrong thing, trying the wrong thing, all these kinds of things.
00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:07.279
But when you look at a leadership team, that is a great, great quality.
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.360
And it says here, curiosity is an art form, is what they say in the article.
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.679
And they say, we must also never stop listening and seeking to better understand.
00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:19.279
This is how leaders tap into the power of curiosity.
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:22.000
It says here, be willing to be wrong.
00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:22.639
Yeah.
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:23.840
That I love that.
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:24.799
Yeah, I love that.
00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:37.679
Um I I like where Colleen goes on in this article to talk about when you're in a leadership position, there's a lot of pressure around proving your worth and having the answers, particularly in an unhealthy culture.
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:38.320
Right.
00:12:38.559 --> 00:13:00.960
Um, and I think at least I found in my career when I was not in the CEO position, when I was in like a cabinet position or when I was in a teaching position, I always appreciated it when my principal or when my boss or my executive director, when they were willing to admit that they didn't know something.
00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:08.320
I liked that better than having bosses who were definitive about their opinions, even though they probably weren't correct.
00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:17.840
I always thought it was refreshing to have a boss who was willing to say, I don't know, or to have a boss who says, um who had a lot of questions.
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:19.279
And that's the ambiguity.
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:31.440
Yeah, like I I liked the boss who was willing to be vulnerable, right, about not knowing, and also have the curiosity to ask questions because I felt like that made the team stronger.
00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:37.919
Why not gave safety to the whole group to say, well, if the boss is willing to say he doesn't know or she doesn't know, then I can.
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:46.879
And also modeling that a boss's job isn't always to rule or make a decision, but maybe to ask questions that make the idea better.
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:50.960
I love that you said that because they this is a great segue in the article here.
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:55.440
It says leaders can cultivate a cur culture of curiosity by leading by example.
00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:56.879
And there's three approaches.
00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.879
One being to listen to understand instead of listening to respond.
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:04.320
Second is just like you said, ask a lot of questions.
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:04.799
Yeah.
00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:11.200
And then the third is let the person know they've been heard by reflecting on what they've said using their own words.
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:12.879
And I think we don't do that enough.
00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:20.799
Like listen, like actively listen and then clarify, like repeat what they've said just so they know you're listening.
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:24.240
You know the hippo theory in leadership, H I P P O hippo?
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:25.600
Uh ex explain.
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:27.919
It's the highest paid person's opinion.
00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:28.799
Okay.
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:30.240
That's the HIPPO.
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:30.559
Okay.
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.279
H and I go together, highest paid person's opinion.
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:45.360
And the theory is there that in any business meeting where the norms aren't established that um that it's safe to have an opinion or whatever, it's often that people defer to the hippo, which is they defer to the highest paid person's opinion.
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:48.000
The highest paid person in the room or in the conversation.
00:14:48.480 --> 00:15:06.000
And so if you are the hippo and you own the hippo, right, you o you you are the highest paid person with an opinion, oftentimes people who don't feel safety will wait to chime in until they hear the hippo and then they just jump on board and repeat it or validate it.
00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:06.639
Right.
00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:07.600
Over and over.
00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:11.759
Right, because they want to be seen as being having affinity towards the leader.
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:12.240
Yes.
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:12.720
Right?
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:19.919
So a trick to avoid that, if you are the hippo or you have the hippo, you have the highest paid person's opinion, you you are the highest paid person with an opinion.
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:31.279
The trick to avoid it is to not say anything until everyone has chimed in and then rule or ask questions about what it is that you have thoughts on, right?
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:32.639
But if the leader speaks first.
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:35.120
And you're saying as the as the leader, as the CEO.
00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:38.080
Yeah, as the leader, you should never be the first or second person to talk.
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:55.039
You should always, to the best of your ability, and everybody struggles with this, myself included, my God, you should let other people speak first because the minute you open your mouth as the hippo, there's the potential that you've tainted everyone's perspectives if they want to be uh seen as agreeable.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:16:01.360
Now, if you don't have a yes man culture or a yes woman culture, it's not that big of a deal because it'll naturally happen.
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:03.679
People will push back anywhere uncomfortable pushing back.
00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:11.840
You have an environment where it's it's a safe environment for bringing up your but if you don't have that environment, then the hippo should always speak last.
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:12.240
Yeah.
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.480
Again, another great segue.
00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:15.440
I and I love that.
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:22.000
Um I think we I think a lot of leaders do that, they've learned to do that without actually I've never heard it called that.
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:23.679
Yeah, highest paid person's opinion.
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:24.399
Yeah, that's the highest.
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:25.919
I think that's great.
00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:31.120
Um and then the other uh so the segue here, go from opinionated to approachable.
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:31.759
I like that.
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:32.720
That is what it talks about.
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:44.399
It says the person literally uh it says when you go this way, the person will literally relax in front of your eyes, going from a posture of defense into one of openness and receptivity because they're being heard.
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:44.960
Yeah.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:50.240
You know, they're and um you know the what's the counter to all this, in my opinion?
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.039
Uh at some point, if you're in charge, you gotta make a decision.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:53.440
Yes.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:55.919
I mean, you can't keep asking questions to ad nauseum, right?
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.960
I mean, like at some point you gotta say, these are the facts that we have.
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.519
We've asked enough questions, we gotta decide, right?
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:06.480
Like, I mean, it's at some point you gotta be the executive making a decision, regardless of your role, right?
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.279
Aaron Powell I'm with you.
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:16.400
And I I like that idea of waiting that that that CEO or that top paid position, uh waiting until the end to wrap it up and bring it together.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:17.519
Yeah, or to ask questions.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:18.720
Or ask questions, yeah.
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:26.400
Or have we thought about because in theory, if you're the highest paid person, not always, but usually, sometimes, whatever you want to work with there, you're the most experienced person.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.079
Not always, not always, not always.
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.960
But you're in that position for a reason, right?
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:33.440
Um, whether you earned it or not, you're in that position.
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:49.519
You should be in a position to uh uh see the bigger picture and to listen to the diverging ideas and with the knowledge you have outside of that meeting of the bigger picture, say, okay, well, when I take this up the chain, here's what I'm gonna be asked.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:50.640
Help me think through it.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:57.279
Or, hey, this doesn't match the larger organizational strategy because I was just in another meeting with my boss, and this doesn't match.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.960
How do we how do we cultivate this and shape it so that it matches?
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:04.400
Right, like that's your job as the translator, as the middle manager, sure.
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:08.319
To take your team's ideas and make them fit into the larger organizational ideas.
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.279
Tying to your mission, tying to, you know, every yeah.
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:12.799
Yeah, and you can't do that on your own.
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.160
You have to do that with the input of your team.
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:14.960
And how do you do that?
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.359
By being curious, asking questions.
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:18.559
That's great.
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:19.279
That's great.
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.519
Um, some closing thoughts on this article.
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.519
They said the art of curiosity is simple but difficult to put into practice.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:26.240
It really is.
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.759
I mean, you need to and be intentional about this uh when you're going through.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:36.319
It's a it reminds you to pause after listening and ask at least two questions before you respond.
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:39.759
So that's you know how does it how does that make you feel?
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:41.039
How does that make me feel?
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:42.160
Yeah, what do you think about that?
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.000
About make forcing myself to ask two questions before I respond.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:47.599
Yeah, I just asked you two questions.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:48.319
You did.
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.240
You asked me two questions.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.880
I on this, so here, let me be vulnerable.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.400
You were very intentional.
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:54.720
Yeah.
00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:56.799
Let me be a little vulnerable here.
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:02.079
On this, when I was reading this, uh, I say sometimes I in particular, I'm gonna make this about me.
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:03.440
You can I'm not making two.
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.880
When we're talking here, sometimes I'm quick to jump in.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.640
I'm not asking questions because we're having a conversation, I'm getting all fired up, right?
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.640
So this reminded me, oh, I better pause, let Craig finish, not jump in.
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:15.599
Sit back a bit.
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:17.359
And and listen, ask questions.
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.279
But I just asked you two questions and I freaked you out.
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:20.319
You did freak me out.
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:21.279
Because that's not our vibe.
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:22.160
It is not our vibe.
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:22.400
Right.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:23.519
We used to just jumping in.
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:24.000
Right.
00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:24.960
But isn't that interesting?
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:25.680
That's really interesting.
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.000
Did you see how different that felt by me asking you how it made you feel and what do you think about it?
00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:33.119
You looked at me like a deer in headlights, and I loved it.
00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:39.519
But but but if that was our normal vibe, and then instead I was jumping all over you, you'd be like, whoa, what's off with this vibe?
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:39.839
Right.
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:42.160
So a lot of this depends on dynamics, right?
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:43.039
It really does.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:50.559
And and knowing your team members and honestly setting that the stage, like setting that environment where curiosity is embraced.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.039
Yeah, and you know, I we've talked about norms before.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:57.519
I want to do an episode at some point in the future about norms and the things that I've learned about norms.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:06.799
Um I don't mean like norm on cheers, but like uh norm, you know, like expectations of behavior and uh guiding principles for how a team operates.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:07.279
Yep.
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.599
Um, this has to be a part, I think, of a healthy team norm.
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.599
And it's not enough to just say, we're going to be curious on this team.
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:16.799
You can't legislate that.
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.000
It needs to be modeled in uh and enforced.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:21.119
And enforced.
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:27.519
So if you find that you're on a team and and someone is not allowing that to happen or someone's jumping, you have to say, wait, remember, one of our norms.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:28.559
Let's go back to the norms.
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:31.680
And there's lots of ways to do that that I've learned over the last couple of years.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:35.039
I wasn't always a fan of norms, but uh I've really come to embrace them.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:36.160
I want to do an episode on that.
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.640
But I think this I think all of those things have to be considered, I think, in a healthy team dynamic.
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:41.359
I'm with you.
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:42.160
I'm with you on that.
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:51.279
It's uh absolutely um and I I I do like the idea of talking about norms and like setting like before a meeting starts, making sure that you know everybody knows the expectations.
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.359
Maybe later this season I'll put something together for us.
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:54.079
Yeah, that'd be great.
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:54.880
I want to talk about that.
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:55.440
That'd be great.
00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:57.039
I said Monday.
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.480
So uh big thanks to Colleen Bashar.
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:05.039
Uh, how the art of curiosity transforms leadership from Forbes.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:07.839
Greg, how does it feel to be back?
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:09.440
Oh, it feels great to be back.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:10.799
Back in Bucks County.
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.039
Back in Bucks County, back on the podcast.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:15.279
Another year older, another year wiser.
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:15.920
We'll see.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:16.720
We'll see about that.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:18.559
It's still up for debate there.
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.079
Up for debate.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:25.440
So uh we need some feedback from our listeners on these uh on the jingles.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:27.599
Yeah, people like the variety.
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:28.880
I mean, do they like variety?
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:29.359
Yeah.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:31.039
I think the the old one got tired.
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:31.440
Yeah.
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:32.640
Thank God for Suno.
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:33.519
I know, exactly.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:33.920
All right.
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:35.119
Put these together this morning.
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.720
Okay, so here's here's our closing one.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:37.599
You ready?
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:38.880
Here we go.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.200
It's mum bum.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:51.839
It's bum.
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:53.920
It's mum bum.
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:55.599
It's so corny.
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:56.000
I love it.
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:56.480
I love it.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.920
Please lay on when the paths are clear.
00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:09.599
When mistakes feel near, strong and hard, steady and spark.
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.240
This is laid on with Greg and Mark.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:12.720
Later.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:19.279
When mistakes feel near, strong and hard.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:20.880
Steady and spark.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.759
This is laid on with Greg and Mark.
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.720
You like other rig, eh, Greg?
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:31.759
Oh, I like it, man.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:32.720
I read.
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:34.240
Alright, brother.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:34.880
Alright.
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:36.319
Have a good one, buddy.