Amanda Johnson: Welcome to Inside the Village, a podcast from Awaken Village Press. This is a space for honest conversations about creativity, meaningful work, and the journey of bringing ideas into the world. And also the bigger questions that shape our lives and who we become along the way. Through different conversations and reflections, my hope is that this podcast offers you not just insight, but a sense of connection, a reminder that you're not doing this alone. I'm really glad you're here.
speaker-0: Hello everyone, Amanda Johnson back with another amazing session of Writing the World Forward, our four-day free virtual summit. And we have such an amazing speaker who will be joining me right here, So let's talk a little bit about Shaka because she's amazing. And I got to, of course, I've had the pleasure of meeting this woman in real life. and and she's such a such a dear human. She is also not just that, she's a yoga teacher and a yoga teacher training, and she's based in Costa Rica, where she and I have had the pleasure of meeting in real life. she offers one-on-one sessions as a psychic, somatic intuitive coach, energy worker, and abdominal massage. She also runs a yoga school, which I'm excited to hear more about, teaches psychic development, and has an empowerment course for empaths. Currently finishing her first book, Revolution of a Yogi. All of her work intends to educate, empower, and raise consciousness. Shaka, that's a pretty incredible thing you're doing and many, many incredible ways of doing it. Thank you for being here today.
speaker-1: Thank you. Thank you for having me and great to see everyone. Thank you for coming. I'm very excited. Very excited. That's my word. I think for today is just excited.
speaker-0: Yes. And so we're going to be here for about the next 40 minutes together in this space. So we will we will dive right in. again, I'm I've had the pleasure also of reading your manuscript, which is so exciting and I cannot wait for this book to come into the world. I will also just say you are one of our emerging voices. And so this What I'll I'll share more about that later. and we will get to hear from you again later in the summit. But let's talk about your your work. So you describe yoga as a revolutionary practice capable of creating social change. Like, what does that mean in a moment specifically as politically charged as it is right now?
speaker-1: Right now, right, the world is crazy right now, right? It is. I think there's a few things, a few things I would say. First and foremost, I'm not an evangelist. So I'm not here to try and like, you know, break everyone's hand behind their back and get them to do yoga in this way that says, hey, you've got to do this thing. And that's what's gonna change the world. That is not my intention with the message of this yoga practice. But as you know, yoga is a very ancient practice. It is a practice that works holistically with the mind and body. We could even say the nervous system these days. I mean, the more I do psychic work, somatic work, and then do this practice of yoga, I really see how these are all interconnected, right? And as we know, our nervous system affects the way we perceive the world, the way that we understand the world, the eyes within which we interface with the world. And so what yoga does is it works on a physiological mental, emotional, spiritual layers of our being and helps us to have a more direct experience with reality itself. So in these times, in these crazy times that we're living in, right, we know that there's a lot of instability, there's a lot of chaos, a lot of war, a lot of conflict. And I'm not saying that like, practice yoga, everything's going to be fine. But what it does is it puts our body in a place where we have the right, well, we would say right perception in Buddhism is kind of called the right mind, yeah, to deal with these things. Also yoga teaches us about equanimity, you know, about holding two things with equalness, right? Which is obviously we're seeing the polarity in the world at the moment where we, you know, people are veering from one extreme to the other. And actually, you know, we're holding the equilibrium is what, is where peace emerges from. And it also teaches us that, you know, also in yoga, it's within a context, in a philosophical and historical context, right? Is that actually the world and human life has been going through these periods of tumult. These are cycles, right? These are cycles, they appear chaotic, they appear to be, you know, the world falling apart. Everyone's got that kind of doomsday apocalypse narratives. But actually I am inclined to believe and definitely the message of my book, which is these are moments of birthing, something is changing. We are moving into a different paradigm, into a different chapter of humanity. And when we have our rightful mind and if we do these self-practices, actually we become the authors of whatever comes next. That actually the moment is asking for something to be born through us. And I believe that the yoga. can help us with that because it's a personal thing. It's not really out there in the world. It's actually within ourselves. The power is within ourselves. And if enough individuals understand and know that, then we all can work collectively and become the change that we want to see.
speaker-0: I love that. I love that answer. And you know, you've you've said that the coherent thread in all of your work is raising consciousness, right? So, and I think that's beautiful because you do offer that in so many ways. How does a daily practice on the mat connect to that? And you're sort of answering it already, but let's go deeper. How does that daily practice connect to the kind of systemic change that the world actually needs? So how does yeah, get us on your mat. Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I think, know, I mean, with yoga, at least, it doesn't have to be yoga. I know I have to say, obviously, I will obviously be talking about yoga, but I know that there are many other disciplines that all of us bring ourselves to that help us in different ways to help us, you know, regulate ourselves, regulate our emotions, regulate our bodies, you know, keep us fit, the endorphins, you know, even if it is just to feel good, right? Even if you're getting in, you know, some kind of... you know, physiological movement that kind of is helping you feel good. But I guess when I think about raising consciousness and I, know, first of all, like the daily practice. So this is not something that just we do when we feel good. Yeah. I mean, this is the really important difference between yoga as a discipline or any other kind of discipline is that we show up even when it doesn't feel good, even when it sort of feels like, don't really want to do it today. I'm tired. I can't be asked. you know, that we show up because this teaches us something. It is teaching us again about the fluctuations. So particularly for my practice is Ashtanga. So it's a, as anyone who's familiar with Ashtanga knows, it's a kind of set sequence. So there really isn't any surprises actually. So in many ways, what you get to observe with a daily practice or with a steady and consistent practice is you start to notice the fluctuations in yourself. You know, it's what your, your changes. So I am tired today. I feel stiff today, I feel a bit, I can't bind today, but yesterday I could. Today there's a lot of emotion. Tomorrow actually I'm, I can just drop in and feel the peace. So we start to notice the fluctuations within ourselves and then we start to understand that actually through a daily practice, we can start to even out those fluctuations. So therefore we're showing up in the world with more of a center that can hold. in the face of the chaos. Now, if we're already in chaos and our external environment is in chaos, then we are also going to be either contributing or being swept away with the chaos. When you are in your center and you are connected to yourself, it's a less chance for you to be swept away with the chaos of the environment. Yeah. I mean, and this within, within reason, obviously, I'm not talking, you know, there's certain environments where that may or may not be possible, right? you know, I'm thinking of like, you know, very specific war, you know, war torn places, all right, you know, we're talking about very acute phases, but for those of us who living relatively, relatively in peace, all right, we are aware things are, you know, we can feel some things bubbling, some things coming in the collective, we know there's big changes, we can feel this, but for most part, we're still relatively living in peace and we have this choice in this time to apply ourselves. And so when I say raising consciousness as well, I don't mean this in a kind of spiritual bypassy, like, hey, positive vibes only, you know, that's not what I'm talking about here. You know, and actually the more actually, the more that I become, what would I say? Like kind of more deeper into this work, the more that I see that we cannot separate the spirit, the body, they're not inseparable. Actually, the deeper you go into the body, the more it's connecting you to the spirit. the more that you're going into the spirit, the more that it's connecting you to the body. And then ultimately, and this might be the subject of my second book. I keep saying that, I keep threatening you. have to finish the first one first. But this is actually how we perceive this is through the nervous system, right? Our nervous system is the mechanics by which we access our spiritual selves and the way that we access our physical selves, right? So actually this work of consciousness raising is the work of Ultimately, believe nervous system work, is affecting our perception, affecting how we see the world, how we see the world, affects how we show up in the world. And so when we're raising the consciousness, we're raising our capacity, our nervous system, our regulation, our capacity to be centered, to be in direct experience, to be in relationship with one another in a real way without projecting, without conflict, without, you know, all of the... you know, the dysfunction that we're often seeing in a lot of our connections. So yeah, that's essentially, and that takes practice. That doesn't happen overnight. That's not one practice, one time. That's the showing up when you don't want to, to practice, to practice, to practice. And again, whatever that practice looks like for you. Yeah.
speaker-0: I love this. And I, you know, I just it's beautiful how you are speaking to things that Ava in our sa second session today also was addressing specifically for those who are in more conflict heavy states, active conflict zones, right? So if if you need to go and listen to Ava's session, please do. Or if you already did, then great job. But yeah, you're building upon that really beautifully, Shaka, in what you're saying. so there there is a question. I'm just gonna, we're actually gonna ask it. There's We're gonna come back to because I wanna I wanna t tease that apart. But before we get there, you know, you've you're a yoga teacher as well. You're a teacher and you train others, right? I'd love to hear a little bit more about the yoga school. so please please give us a little insight into that. What what are you birthing over there and and what is it? Just give us a little insight into what you're creating to
speaker-1: Absolutely. I mean, there's the long story and then there's the short story for today, which is, yeah, I'm setting up a new yoga school here, yoga teacher training school. It's taken a few iterations. It's been a bit of a birthing process in and of itself, but something seems to be being born and emerged, but it's called the Abhyasa School of Yoga. So it will be here on the Caribbean coast of Costa Rica. So training yoga teachers, but it's a 30 day training and really it's an immersive. immersive experience. you're like deeply immersed in nature. So we will be at Samasati, which is a yoga retreat space, but has an incredible history actually, was actually built by disciples of Osho. So it has this kind of in the in the building itself is this kind of sense that we retreat up to the mountain, we are deep in practice in this kind of isolated way. And then we leave the mountain, we go back. to our lives and we bring this wisdom and this knowledge. And so it's kind of very much in the tradition, the aesthetic tradition in that sense is that there's a kind of withdrawal that takes place for us to be in practice. And then what we learn in that space, we then take out into the world. And I do believe this is a part, I know people say, you know, it's very common to say that, hey, you know, get among them, get among them all the time. And that's... That's how we get the friction. That's how we participate in life is with each other, with togetherness and get in the fray of it, right? But actually part of us building the right perception involves sometimes withdrawal. It's very much part of the eight limbs. So part of that is withdrawing the senses. How do we know what's real and what isn't if we do not take that moment to connect with just just the practice itself, like without the distraction, without all of the noise. And so yeah, the school is very much built in that tradition that it's allowing people to come and be in not necessarily isolation, but definitely in a very secluded environment on a mountain, overlooking the sea and being in deep practice. then it is with that whatever is transformation takes place within. is what you then bring out into the world. And I'm hoping that the teachers that are created in this kind of training have met themselves, right? So how, you have to meet yourself, right, first, and then you bring that lesson out into the world and maybe show others how to do the same thing.
speaker-0: I love that. I I and that actually sets up the next question so, so beautifully because you are based in Costa Rica. and it's interesting because and we've talked about this in our conversations already, and it's also you talk about it in your book. but what did leaving London, you were you were based in London for a while and you could also think about like any kind of metropolitan area, but you know, that was yours. What did leaving that make possible for you in your life and in your work? And I think you're starting to point to it already.
speaker-1: Absolutely. mean, for me personally, it was just a feeling of like never feeling like I belonged. If I'm 100 % honest, I've just sort of feeling like, can't get it. I just can't get it right here. Like, I can't get this. I don't fit in. I don't understand the rules of this game. They're just jacking up my energy constantly. And then to come to a place I knew this place existed. was like, know that there's a place in the world. And it does, and it existed, and I landed here and I felt it immediately. And it's just that there is, for me at least, how I experience Costa Rica, is that there is still this deep reverence for nature. There's this still deep respect and connection and reverence for Mother Earth. It's a very matriarchal land. I think I've said this before. There's a goddess who runs this land. The land is basically operated by a goddess. And so it really does support the feminine principle. So I guess from my perspective, again, this has changed in my time here being in Costa Rica, but in hindsight, think like obviously like London, for example, it's a very male dominated patriarchal hard lens, hard lines, concrete. Go hard, go home. You've got to make the most money. You're going to basically elbow everyone else out the way to get yours. And it's just, I just don't, I don't want to live like that. I want to live cooperatively. I want to live in community. I want to live in harmony with people. I want to live with reverence for the natural world, for the, for the energy of spirit and the unseen and the mystery. And I found that that is still alive here. And as soon as I experienced it, I was like, It exists, it's possible. And through that, think by becoming more just, not like, I'm not spending all my energy fighting against the environment that doesn't support me. Suddenly I'm in an environment that supports my energy. And then I can just be who I am and bring forth into the world, you know, what I'm being guided to bring forth, which is yeah, the work that I do. So I feel so much more deeply connected to my work, my own path, but then also. the space that I offer others as well. Yeah. And give thanks, give thanks to this land. Yeah. Nothing but gratitude. Yeah. For Mother Earth all over the world. You know, was saying to someone else as well, I mean, Costa Rica is a particularly breathtakingly beautiful place, but Mother Earth everywhere is particularly beautiful. And I always invite that we don't necessarily have to leave our home place or wherever we are to experience that and connect with Mother Nature. And I always invite anybody wherever you are in the world. to find your interface, find in London, for me it was the parks, like yeah, public parks was like my lifeline there, know, my plants in my house, you know, so, you know, we can find it wherever we are in the world, she's also there. And so, you know, it's available for us. And I think that is where, yeah, just, I pay homage to that all the time.
speaker-0: Yeah. And I love that you said that, that we don't necessarily have to run away to Costa Rica or abscond to some other island somewhere. Please do if you feel called to. I know it it definitely benefited me. And I believe to your point, we are meant to be where we are and we can do this work. We can it can be a revolution wherever we are. and I want to speak a little bit more about that. I mean, your book talks a lot about this idea of activism. you know passive activism or and there's other ways you talk about it right in this idea that especially for those of us who are more sensitive maybe even highly sensitive I think what I appreciated most about what you talk about in your book is sometimes I do feel overwhelmed or I feel like I just I can't do anything right and so what is my role? What is my part in all of this? And I I love how you speak about that. So Share a little bit more in terms of yeah, what what's your perspective on that?
speaker-1: Yeah, I I think we have this idea of activism and I think it's kind of, and it's got a very strong historical precedence and for good reason, which is that, you you go out and you do things, it's active, there's an action involved, right? That we sign a petition or we march or we, you know, we petition, we send an email, we, you know, or we get online or we, you know, so it's always an action. And I guess in the spirit, in the spirit of honoring the feminine principle is that actually to some extent, activism that I am saying is equally as important. It's not in replacement of being active, but that actually there's also an action of being, receptivity that is part of the change as well. And you know, the ends justifies the means. How we, if we keep doing the things, But we never take the time to be, to reflect, to rest, to be in receptivity of guidance, even, I want to say. The whispers in the wind is sometimes, would say, Socrates would say your diamond, someone say your spirit guides, you know, through prayer, where you hear the guidance of the energy of nature, of spirit that guides us, yeah? That isn't just all about us imposing with our... ideas that we already have that have already been programmed and then we are then deciding from that this has got to be like this, this has got to be like that. That actually there's something that says, when you tune into the rhythm of nature, there is a trust that actually what if everything is absolutely exactly as it should be. And actually that there is a part that you must play whatever that part is. Maybe it is the active thing. Maybe it's getting some rest. Maybe it's just doing nothing. Maybe it's calling your nan. Maybe it's, you know, having children and having a family. Maybe it is this, you know, high end, you know, ambitious career path that whatever it might look like, but it's going to look very different. But ultimately are we all connected with the energy of like love? Ultimately, I want to say, you know, how is love moving through our lives? And it's leaving ourselves open to that. And then expressing that in ways that is unique and congruent for us and trusting that I'm doing my bit, you're doing your bit, you're doing your, everyone's doing our bit. And through that, we just trust that. And I think that's what also being in Costa Rica has taught me is there's many times where you're like, there's absolutely no way, how is this all gonna come together? How is this good? And many times this shows you that like, I don't know how, but it all works out. It all just sort of works its way out without me having to. micromanage every last bit of it, I actually can surrender some of that and trust that actually things are going in this direction. And that's a missing part of activism that I don't think is spoken about enough, because it's part of us reconnecting with the natural world as well. That is part of the ends and the means that we get there.
speaker-0: And going back to our first session today with Zach Bush, we are nature. So when we reconnect with our nate natural world, we it's all about reconnecting with ourselves. And so it's through your the yoga practice or whatever the practice might be. But of course, you speak about it through yoga as that is your practice.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: you've said change is possible and it is happening. I mean, I believe it's happening already right now. Where do you see it? And and what does revolution actually? Look like when it's working.
speaker-1: Hmm, this is a nice question, spicy one. I don't know why, I mean, on a good day, for most part, I'd say 90 % of me on a good day is hopeful, optimistic. I ultimately lean into an optimistic perspective, depending on who I listen to. sometimes I listen to certain podcasts or watch certain documentaries and I'm like, my goodness, right? And I'm like, this is bad. What are we gonna do? But for the most part, I actually feel incredibly hopeful. but yeah, and I I so what does revolution look like? I I really believe that ultimately this moment in time is revealing Well, there's so many different ways you could look at it. but I guess if I w if I was to go back to like the the again, yoga philosophy, right? Kali Yuga, as many people have talked about the Kali Yuga, that this is a disillusion, this is a kind of chaos, a kind of veil of ignorance has been, you know, to just fully developed the full development of human hubris and ignorance. And ultimately what we're seeing. Is a disillusion, like a kind of that's falling apart, right? Is that actually our illusions, our hubris is is no longer tenable. and actually what is emergent is self governed, sovereign, consciously aware, connected beings, where we come back into what we would say satya yuga, because what comes after Kali Yuga satya yuga, right? So we come into direct experience and direct relationship with one another where we are sovereign. and so on a good day, that is what I believe ultimately we're moving towards, right? And actually some of the chaos and difficulty is actually an e an inevitable. unraveling of a paradigm that is no longer sustainable. It's it's it's come to the end of its use and road. Again, I'm not a bloody revu, you know, this I'm not bloody revolutionist in the sense that, you know, I'm not for like, hey, let's cut off the heads and, you know, and drag the bodies through the streets. I mean, it, you know, this is a this is a conscious revolution. This is a it's a peaceful revolution of consciousness that says, no, we are not Validating this kind of system anymore, this unjust, immoral system anymore. It is cut, it's it's it's reaching its end point. And what we're seeing, the chaos is a reflection of a system that is clinging, clinging on for dear life. so I think in a in a good day, when I'm feeling positive, is I'm like, well, the chaos is actually a good sign. It's the kind of sign that it's got so extreme that it's having to do more and more extreme things to hold on to a perspective. Which is coming its its time is is is coming to an end.
speaker-0: Yeah. Again, I'm just this is beautiful. I love how all these dialogues and and conversations are weaving together. There was something else that Zach said in his first session today. for those who were able to be there or watch the replay, please do. He talked about children specifically with autistic children, but he he says his hope comes in these in the children because their suffering is not because of anything that they're experiencing, it's actually because they are living in a family system or in a system. That is incongruent with nature. And then there's this incoherence. And so when he worked with children who would just beat their head against the wall for eight or nine hours, you know, that wasn't because a child was actually suffering. It was because the child was feeling all of that dissonance and what didn't know what to do with it. And so he it actually, that's how it expressed the feelings of all of that that no one else around was will was willing to feel or acknowledge. And I thought, wow. And you're saying something very similar to me, that's just reminding me the chaos, you know, that to me is like a child just expressing chaos. It's like I this is we can't live this way anymore, right? And it's a I'm now seeing you're speaking at it on that much more global or collective level of so socially, collectively, we are in a state of chaos because we can't live this way anymore. And things are going to, you know, have to shake up and fall apart or fall away. And and You speak of it again also in terms of the different, yeah, the the energies within yoga, right? That that have to occur.
speaker-1: the ages. Yeah. And I just add to that as well. It's interesting you say that it's I say this to my empaths as well, like highly sensitive people. The challenges that you face as a highly sensitive person is inverse to the dysfunction of the environment that we're living in. I e, therefore you're suffering is actually a sign that of what is happening around us. And actually once we contact that and and actually sh understand that, then we can change the environment because it's those people that are in touch with like, my God, this is this is bad. That's what is going on. Then it's your time. That's your time now. That's your time to shift this and to be a leader in this moment. so for those who really do feel I I almost want to say that feel the suffering the most, I'm like, that's your gift. That is your gift. That's how we have to learn how to transmute that. And yoga is a practice that can help us do that.
speaker-0: You do speak about yoga a lot, but what else might you offer people who physically can't do yoga or maybe that's not what they're called to?
speaker-1: I mean, I would say, I mean, I I think in modernity we understand yoga as asana. It isn't just asana. actually, that asana can be part of it. And even when we're physically limited to a certain extent, there are definitely ways that we can approach the body, hold shapes, support the body. so it like alongside Ashtangar, I I teach restorative and hatha, which you there's a heavy use of props. so we'll always say there is an access point into the body. Whatever that looks like, it might not look like and that it's gonna look slightly different for all of us, but there are access points into the body. And ultimately, really, yoga is breath and focus. So the control of the breath. So there's an understanding that our breath is connected to our nervous system. And so then the way that we use the breath affects our perception and our nervous system, our mind. so yoga ultimately is that, right? Is mind control, you could say, self control. and so that could look just like meditation. It could look like pranayama, might be asana. it might be chanting. there's there's different, you know, it's not just the sana, even though that's predominantly how it's pr practiced and taught, Asana is basically a posture. So asana in yoga means seat. It's like the seat that you sit in. so in you know, in ancient times this would have been like a s a a meditation posture. but obviously in modern times we, you know, it's warrior one, warrior two, back bends, front, you know, it's like this kind of real physically focused postural practice. but it doesn't necessarily it's not in in in ancient times it's actually not historically been that, actually. this is kind of a modern development, which is valid. Doesn't mean it's not the same authentic yoga, it just means that there's that that's how beautiful and rich yoga actually is, which it has all of these different ways that we can approach it. Yeah.
speaker-0: And I love that you speak about this in your book, of course, too, right? Because there has been a bit of like a capitalistic approach to yoga, especially in the Western world. And so there many of us, especially, yeah, the Westerners, see yoga as a very commercialized put on your yoga, Lululemon, go to the gym, grab your water bottle. And it's not that that's a negative. I mean, I can say that there's, you know, I might have some judgment of it if I'm being completely honest, but that's only because, you know, I think I I get to do that. However, it also has made yoga more accessible to people, or maybe introduced it to people that it may not have reached otherwise. So again, both both things can be true. But I what I appreciate about you, Shaka, in both what how you write about it, also how you teach it. I've had the pleasure of taking a class with you. you do bring us back to, I feel the the true essence and the heart of yoga in its in its purest form, even if you know we are living in the modern day. in Western culture. So thank you for that. in our last few minutes together, which I'm I'm just I've been enjoying this conversation so, so, so much, but I do want to ask at least one closing question, which is if someone leaves this conversation and steps onto their mat tomorrow, whether that's to sit in a pose or just sit and meditate or breathe, what do you hope shifts for them and for the world that shift ripples out into?
speaker-1: As you were asking that question, I guess the first thing that came to me was like when you come to your mat or your seat, your seated posture, like ultimately what you're doing is facing yourself. Like ultimately you're being with yourself. and to varying degrees, that can be easy or hard, depending on the day, depending on the time. And so I would always invite us to keep coming back to. ourselves, even when it's uncomfortable, even when it's difficult. And I always say in often in my yoga classes, a a voice of infinite compassion, yeah, or infinite space of compassion around you that you are able to bring to your practice who you are. There's nothing you're not it's nothing you're supposed to be, nothing you're supposed to do other than show up and be in relationship with yourself and bring that awareness with your breath. With the practice itself, because things are gonna come up. You're gonna notice, my shoulders hurt, there's dirt on the floor, I need to sweep that up. I need to go and do this. I need to go and call this person. there's that thing, I want to cry. Everything is there in the in the map. And I think the practice invites us to just be with. Just be with what is there. And the more that we can do that, the more that we build our capacity to show up more authentically in the world. And I just believe that if enough people do that, we're gonna be fine. We're gonna figure it out.
speaker-0: Which is why we need books like yours and people like you, which is why you're doing what you're doing. And and even for those who are watching and aren't writing books and doing this, I mean, of course, you matter as well. but we are here to uplift these voices and to celebrate the stories that you're bringing into the world that we need right now. Chaka, before we wrap up, are there any closing thoughts that you would like to share with us? Anything else that's dropping in?
speaker-1: Know, just always just come back to love. Like just come back to love, like in the end, like we can talk, we can chat, but in the end that's where we come back to it. All makes sense when we come back to that place in our hearts. And and I just invite us to all just continue find places where we can drop in and connect to the energy of love and and yeah, and just thank you. I guess I also would just say really thank you for for having me today. it's really wonderful to see you all and be here. So yeah, it's it's Just deep gratitude. Thank you.
speaker-0: Thank you, Shaka. This was wonderful. Thank you all for supporting us, supporting these authors, supporting me, supporting Awakened Village Press. We could not do this without every single one of you. I love you all. Thank you so much. Ciao for now.
speaker-1: Yeah.
Amanda Johnson: Thank you for being a part of this conversation. If something in today's episode resonated with you and you're wanting a space to explore your own creative path, I'd love to welcome you into the Author's Village, our community for writers, creators, and thoughtful humans walking this path together. You can learn more through the link in our show notes. Until next time, thanks for being here.
speaker-0: Hello everyone, Amanda Johnson back with another amazing session of Writing the World Forward, our four-day free virtual summit. And we have such an amazing speaker who will be joining me right here, So let's talk a little bit about Shaka because she's amazing. And I got to, of course, I've had the pleasure of meeting this woman in real life. and and she's such a such a dear human. She is also not just that, she's a yoga teacher and a yoga teacher training, and she's based in Costa Rica, where she and I have had the pleasure of meeting in real life. she offers one-on-one sessions as a psychic, somatic intuitive coach, energy worker, and abdominal massage. She also runs a yoga school, which I'm excited to hear more about, teaches psychic development, and has an empowerment course for empaths. Currently finishing her first book, Revolution of a Yogi. All of her work intends to educate, empower, and raise consciousness. Shaka, that's a pretty incredible thing you're doing and many, many incredible ways of doing it. Thank you for being here today.
speaker-1: Thank you. Thank you for having me and great to see everyone. Thank you for coming. I'm very excited. Very excited. That's my word. I think for today is just excited.
speaker-0: Yes. And so we're going to be here for about the next 40 minutes together in this space. So we will we will dive right in. again, I'm I've had the pleasure also of reading your manuscript, which is so exciting and I cannot wait for this book to come into the world. I will also just say you are one of our emerging voices. And so this What I'll I'll share more about that later. and we will get to hear from you again later in the summit. But let's talk about your your work. So you describe yoga as a revolutionary practice capable of creating social change. Like, what does that mean in a moment specifically as politically charged as it is right now?
speaker-1: Right now, right, the world is crazy right now, right? It is. I think there's a few things, a few things I would say. First and foremost, I'm not an evangelist. So I'm not here to try and like, you know, break everyone's hand behind their back and get them to do yoga in this way that says, hey, you've got to do this thing. And that's what's gonna change the world. That is not my intention with the message of this yoga practice. But as you know, yoga is a very ancient practice. It is a practice that works holistically with the mind and body. We could even say the nervous system these days. I mean, the more I do psychic work, somatic work, and then do this practice of yoga, I really see how these are all interconnected, right? And as we know, our nervous system affects the way we perceive the world, the way that we understand the world, the eyes within which we interface with the world. And so what yoga does is it works on a physiological mental, emotional, spiritual layers of our being and helps us to have a more direct experience with reality itself. So in these times, in these crazy times that we're living in, right, we know that there's a lot of instability, there's a lot of chaos, a lot of war, a lot of conflict. And I'm not saying that like, practice yoga, everything's going to be fine. But what it does is it puts our body in a place where we have the right, well, we would say right perception in Buddhism is kind of called the right mind, yeah, to deal with these things. Also yoga teaches us about equanimity, you know, about holding two things with equalness, right? Which is obviously we're seeing the polarity in the world at the moment where we, you know, people are veering from one extreme to the other. And actually, you know, we're holding the equilibrium is what, is where peace emerges from. And it also teaches us that, you know, also in yoga, it's within a context, in a philosophical and historical context, right? Is that actually the world and human life has been going through these periods of tumult. These are cycles, right? These are cycles, they appear chaotic, they appear to be, you know, the world falling apart. Everyone's got that kind of doomsday apocalypse narratives. But actually I am inclined to believe and definitely the message of my book, which is these are moments of birthing, something is changing. We are moving into a different paradigm, into a different chapter of humanity. And when we have our rightful mind and if we do these self-practices, actually we become the authors of whatever comes next. That actually the moment is asking for something to be born through us. And I believe that the yoga. can help us with that because it's a personal thing. It's not really out there in the world. It's actually within ourselves. The power is within ourselves. And if enough individuals understand and know that, then we all can work collectively and become the change that we want to see.
speaker-0: I love that. I love that answer. And you know, you've you've said that the coherent thread in all of your work is raising consciousness, right? So, and I think that's beautiful because you do offer that in so many ways. How does a daily practice on the mat connect to that? And you're sort of answering it already, but let's go deeper. How does that daily practice connect to the kind of systemic change that the world actually needs? So how does yeah, get us on your mat. Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I think, know, I mean, with yoga, at least, it doesn't have to be yoga. I know I have to say, obviously, I will obviously be talking about yoga, but I know that there are many other disciplines that all of us bring ourselves to that help us in different ways to help us, you know, regulate ourselves, regulate our emotions, regulate our bodies, you know, keep us fit, the endorphins, you know, even if it is just to feel good, right? Even if you're getting in, you know, some kind of... you know, physiological movement that kind of is helping you feel good. But I guess when I think about raising consciousness and I, know, first of all, like the daily practice. So this is not something that just we do when we feel good. Yeah. I mean, this is the really important difference between yoga as a discipline or any other kind of discipline is that we show up even when it doesn't feel good, even when it sort of feels like, don't really want to do it today. I'm tired. I can't be asked. you know, that we show up because this teaches us something. It is teaching us again about the fluctuations. So particularly for my practice is Ashtanga. So it's a, as anyone who's familiar with Ashtanga knows, it's a kind of set sequence. So there really isn't any surprises actually. So in many ways, what you get to observe with a daily practice or with a steady and consistent practice is you start to notice the fluctuations in yourself. You know, it's what your, your changes. So I am tired today. I feel stiff today, I feel a bit, I can't bind today, but yesterday I could. Today there's a lot of emotion. Tomorrow actually I'm, I can just drop in and feel the peace. So we start to notice the fluctuations within ourselves and then we start to understand that actually through a daily practice, we can start to even out those fluctuations. So therefore we're showing up in the world with more of a center that can hold. in the face of the chaos. Now, if we're already in chaos and our external environment is in chaos, then we are also going to be either contributing or being swept away with the chaos. When you are in your center and you are connected to yourself, it's a less chance for you to be swept away with the chaos of the environment. Yeah. I mean, and this within, within reason, obviously, I'm not talking, you know, there's certain environments where that may or may not be possible, right? you know, I'm thinking of like, you know, very specific war, you know, war torn places, all right, you know, we're talking about very acute phases, but for those of us who living relatively, relatively in peace, all right, we are aware things are, you know, we can feel some things bubbling, some things coming in the collective, we know there's big changes, we can feel this, but for most part, we're still relatively living in peace and we have this choice in this time to apply ourselves. And so when I say raising consciousness as well, I don't mean this in a kind of spiritual bypassy, like, hey, positive vibes only, you know, that's not what I'm talking about here. You know, and actually the more actually, the more that I become, what would I say? Like kind of more deeper into this work, the more that I see that we cannot separate the spirit, the body, they're not inseparable. Actually, the deeper you go into the body, the more it's connecting you to the spirit. the more that you're going into the spirit, the more that it's connecting you to the body. And then ultimately, and this might be the subject of my second book. I keep saying that, I keep threatening you. have to finish the first one first. But this is actually how we perceive this is through the nervous system, right? Our nervous system is the mechanics by which we access our spiritual selves and the way that we access our physical selves, right? So actually this work of consciousness raising is the work of Ultimately, believe nervous system work, is affecting our perception, affecting how we see the world, how we see the world, affects how we show up in the world. And so when we're raising the consciousness, we're raising our capacity, our nervous system, our regulation, our capacity to be centered, to be in direct experience, to be in relationship with one another in a real way without projecting, without conflict, without, you know, all of the... you know, the dysfunction that we're often seeing in a lot of our connections. So yeah, that's essentially, and that takes practice. That doesn't happen overnight. That's not one practice, one time. That's the showing up when you don't want to, to practice, to practice, to practice. And again, whatever that practice looks like for you. Yeah.
speaker-0: I love this. And I, you know, I just it's beautiful how you are speaking to things that Ava in our sa second session today also was addressing specifically for those who are in more conflict heavy states, active conflict zones, right? So if if you need to go and listen to Ava's session, please do. Or if you already did, then great job. But yeah, you're building upon that really beautifully, Shaka, in what you're saying. so there there is a question. I'm just gonna, we're actually gonna ask it. There's We're gonna come back to because I wanna I wanna t tease that apart. But before we get there, you know, you've you're a yoga teacher as well. You're a teacher and you train others, right? I'd love to hear a little bit more about the yoga school. so please please give us a little insight into that. What what are you birthing over there and and what is it? Just give us a little insight into what you're creating to
speaker-1: Absolutely. I mean, there's the long story and then there's the short story for today, which is, yeah, I'm setting up a new yoga school here, yoga teacher training school. It's taken a few iterations. It's been a bit of a birthing process in and of itself, but something seems to be being born and emerged, but it's called the Abhyasa School of Yoga. So it will be here on the Caribbean coast of Costa Rica. So training yoga teachers, but it's a 30 day training and really it's an immersive. immersive experience. you're like deeply immersed in nature. So we will be at Samasati, which is a yoga retreat space, but has an incredible history actually, was actually built by disciples of Osho. So it has this kind of in the in the building itself is this kind of sense that we retreat up to the mountain, we are deep in practice in this kind of isolated way. And then we leave the mountain, we go back. to our lives and we bring this wisdom and this knowledge. And so it's kind of very much in the tradition, the aesthetic tradition in that sense is that there's a kind of withdrawal that takes place for us to be in practice. And then what we learn in that space, we then take out into the world. And I do believe this is a part, I know people say, you know, it's very common to say that, hey, you know, get among them, get among them all the time. And that's... That's how we get the friction. That's how we participate in life is with each other, with togetherness and get in the fray of it, right? But actually part of us building the right perception involves sometimes withdrawal. It's very much part of the eight limbs. So part of that is withdrawing the senses. How do we know what's real and what isn't if we do not take that moment to connect with just just the practice itself, like without the distraction, without all of the noise. And so yeah, the school is very much built in that tradition that it's allowing people to come and be in not necessarily isolation, but definitely in a very secluded environment on a mountain, overlooking the sea and being in deep practice. then it is with that whatever is transformation takes place within. is what you then bring out into the world. And I'm hoping that the teachers that are created in this kind of training have met themselves, right? So how, you have to meet yourself, right, first, and then you bring that lesson out into the world and maybe show others how to do the same thing.
speaker-0: I love that. I I and that actually sets up the next question so, so beautifully because you are based in Costa Rica. and it's interesting because and we've talked about this in our conversations already, and it's also you talk about it in your book. but what did leaving London, you were you were based in London for a while and you could also think about like any kind of metropolitan area, but you know, that was yours. What did leaving that make possible for you in your life and in your work? And I think you're starting to point to it already.
speaker-1: Absolutely. mean, for me personally, it was just a feeling of like never feeling like I belonged. If I'm 100 % honest, I've just sort of feeling like, can't get it. I just can't get it right here. Like, I can't get this. I don't fit in. I don't understand the rules of this game. They're just jacking up my energy constantly. And then to come to a place I knew this place existed. was like, know that there's a place in the world. And it does, and it existed, and I landed here and I felt it immediately. And it's just that there is, for me at least, how I experience Costa Rica, is that there is still this deep reverence for nature. There's this still deep respect and connection and reverence for Mother Earth. It's a very matriarchal land. I think I've said this before. There's a goddess who runs this land. The land is basically operated by a goddess. And so it really does support the feminine principle. So I guess from my perspective, again, this has changed in my time here being in Costa Rica, but in hindsight, think like obviously like London, for example, it's a very male dominated patriarchal hard lens, hard lines, concrete. Go hard, go home. You've got to make the most money. You're going to basically elbow everyone else out the way to get yours. And it's just, I just don't, I don't want to live like that. I want to live cooperatively. I want to live in community. I want to live in harmony with people. I want to live with reverence for the natural world, for the, for the energy of spirit and the unseen and the mystery. And I found that that is still alive here. And as soon as I experienced it, I was like, It exists, it's possible. And through that, think by becoming more just, not like, I'm not spending all my energy fighting against the environment that doesn't support me. Suddenly I'm in an environment that supports my energy. And then I can just be who I am and bring forth into the world, you know, what I'm being guided to bring forth, which is yeah, the work that I do. So I feel so much more deeply connected to my work, my own path, but then also. the space that I offer others as well. Yeah. And give thanks, give thanks to this land. Yeah. Nothing but gratitude. Yeah. For Mother Earth all over the world. You know, was saying to someone else as well, I mean, Costa Rica is a particularly breathtakingly beautiful place, but Mother Earth everywhere is particularly beautiful. And I always invite that we don't necessarily have to leave our home place or wherever we are to experience that and connect with Mother Nature. And I always invite anybody wherever you are in the world. to find your interface, find in London, for me it was the parks, like yeah, public parks was like my lifeline there, know, my plants in my house, you know, so, you know, we can find it wherever we are in the world, she's also there. And so, you know, it's available for us. And I think that is where, yeah, just, I pay homage to that all the time.
speaker-0: Yeah. And I love that you said that, that we don't necessarily have to run away to Costa Rica or abscond to some other island somewhere. Please do if you feel called to. I know it it definitely benefited me. And I believe to your point, we are meant to be where we are and we can do this work. We can it can be a revolution wherever we are. and I want to speak a little bit more about that. I mean, your book talks a lot about this idea of activism. you know passive activism or and there's other ways you talk about it right in this idea that especially for those of us who are more sensitive maybe even highly sensitive I think what I appreciated most about what you talk about in your book is sometimes I do feel overwhelmed or I feel like I just I can't do anything right and so what is my role? What is my part in all of this? And I I love how you speak about that. So Share a little bit more in terms of yeah, what what's your perspective on that?
speaker-1: Yeah, I I think we have this idea of activism and I think it's kind of, and it's got a very strong historical precedence and for good reason, which is that, you you go out and you do things, it's active, there's an action involved, right? That we sign a petition or we march or we, you know, we petition, we send an email, we, you know, or we get online or we, you know, so it's always an action. And I guess in the spirit, in the spirit of honoring the feminine principle is that actually to some extent, activism that I am saying is equally as important. It's not in replacement of being active, but that actually there's also an action of being, receptivity that is part of the change as well. And you know, the ends justifies the means. How we, if we keep doing the things, But we never take the time to be, to reflect, to rest, to be in receptivity of guidance, even, I want to say. The whispers in the wind is sometimes, would say, Socrates would say your diamond, someone say your spirit guides, you know, through prayer, where you hear the guidance of the energy of nature, of spirit that guides us, yeah? That isn't just all about us imposing with our... ideas that we already have that have already been programmed and then we are then deciding from that this has got to be like this, this has got to be like that. That actually there's something that says, when you tune into the rhythm of nature, there is a trust that actually what if everything is absolutely exactly as it should be. And actually that there is a part that you must play whatever that part is. Maybe it is the active thing. Maybe it's getting some rest. Maybe it's just doing nothing. Maybe it's calling your nan. Maybe it's, you know, having children and having a family. Maybe it is this, you know, high end, you know, ambitious career path that whatever it might look like, but it's going to look very different. But ultimately are we all connected with the energy of like love? Ultimately, I want to say, you know, how is love moving through our lives? And it's leaving ourselves open to that. And then expressing that in ways that is unique and congruent for us and trusting that I'm doing my bit, you're doing your bit, you're doing your, everyone's doing our bit. And through that, we just trust that. And I think that's what also being in Costa Rica has taught me is there's many times where you're like, there's absolutely no way, how is this all gonna come together? How is this good? And many times this shows you that like, I don't know how, but it all works out. It all just sort of works its way out without me having to. micromanage every last bit of it, I actually can surrender some of that and trust that actually things are going in this direction. And that's a missing part of activism that I don't think is spoken about enough, because it's part of us reconnecting with the natural world as well. That is part of the ends and the means that we get there.
speaker-0: And going back to our first session today with Zach Bush, we are nature. So when we reconnect with our nate natural world, we it's all about reconnecting with ourselves. And so it's through your the yoga practice or whatever the practice might be. But of course, you speak about it through yoga as that is your practice.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: you've said change is possible and it is happening. I mean, I believe it's happening already right now. Where do you see it? And and what does revolution actually? Look like when it's working.
speaker-1: Hmm, this is a nice question, spicy one. I don't know why, I mean, on a good day, for most part, I'd say 90 % of me on a good day is hopeful, optimistic. I ultimately lean into an optimistic perspective, depending on who I listen to. sometimes I listen to certain podcasts or watch certain documentaries and I'm like, my goodness, right? And I'm like, this is bad. What are we gonna do? But for the most part, I actually feel incredibly hopeful. but yeah, and I I so what does revolution look like? I I really believe that ultimately this moment in time is revealing Well, there's so many different ways you could look at it. but I guess if I w if I was to go back to like the the again, yoga philosophy, right? Kali Yuga, as many people have talked about the Kali Yuga, that this is a disillusion, this is a kind of chaos, a kind of veil of ignorance has been, you know, to just fully developed the full development of human hubris and ignorance. And ultimately what we're seeing. Is a disillusion, like a kind of that's falling apart, right? Is that actually our illusions, our hubris is is no longer tenable. and actually what is emergent is self governed, sovereign, consciously aware, connected beings, where we come back into what we would say satya yuga, because what comes after Kali Yuga satya yuga, right? So we come into direct experience and direct relationship with one another where we are sovereign. and so on a good day, that is what I believe ultimately we're moving towards, right? And actually some of the chaos and difficulty is actually an e an inevitable. unraveling of a paradigm that is no longer sustainable. It's it's it's come to the end of its use and road. Again, I'm not a bloody revu, you know, this I'm not bloody revolutionist in the sense that, you know, I'm not for like, hey, let's cut off the heads and, you know, and drag the bodies through the streets. I mean, it, you know, this is a this is a conscious revolution. This is a it's a peaceful revolution of consciousness that says, no, we are not Validating this kind of system anymore, this unjust, immoral system anymore. It is cut, it's it's it's reaching its end point. And what we're seeing, the chaos is a reflection of a system that is clinging, clinging on for dear life. so I think in a in a good day, when I'm feeling positive, is I'm like, well, the chaos is actually a good sign. It's the kind of sign that it's got so extreme that it's having to do more and more extreme things to hold on to a perspective. Which is coming its its time is is is coming to an end.
speaker-0: Yeah. Again, I'm just this is beautiful. I love how all these dialogues and and conversations are weaving together. There was something else that Zach said in his first session today. for those who were able to be there or watch the replay, please do. He talked about children specifically with autistic children, but he he says his hope comes in these in the children because their suffering is not because of anything that they're experiencing, it's actually because they are living in a family system or in a system. That is incongruent with nature. And then there's this incoherence. And so when he worked with children who would just beat their head against the wall for eight or nine hours, you know, that wasn't because a child was actually suffering. It was because the child was feeling all of that dissonance and what didn't know what to do with it. And so he it actually, that's how it expressed the feelings of all of that that no one else around was will was willing to feel or acknowledge. And I thought, wow. And you're saying something very similar to me, that's just reminding me the chaos, you know, that to me is like a child just expressing chaos. It's like I this is we can't live this way anymore, right? And it's a I'm now seeing you're speaking at it on that much more global or collective level of so socially, collectively, we are in a state of chaos because we can't live this way anymore. And things are going to, you know, have to shake up and fall apart or fall away. And and You speak of it again also in terms of the different, yeah, the the energies within yoga, right? That that have to occur.
speaker-1: the ages. Yeah. And I just add to that as well. It's interesting you say that it's I say this to my empaths as well, like highly sensitive people. The challenges that you face as a highly sensitive person is inverse to the dysfunction of the environment that we're living in. I e, therefore you're suffering is actually a sign that of what is happening around us. And actually once we contact that and and actually sh understand that, then we can change the environment because it's those people that are in touch with like, my God, this is this is bad. That's what is going on. Then it's your time. That's your time now. That's your time to shift this and to be a leader in this moment. so for those who really do feel I I almost want to say that feel the suffering the most, I'm like, that's your gift. That is your gift. That's how we have to learn how to transmute that. And yoga is a practice that can help us do that.
speaker-0: You do speak about yoga a lot, but what else might you offer people who physically can't do yoga or maybe that's not what they're called to?
speaker-1: I mean, I would say, I mean, I I think in modernity we understand yoga as asana. It isn't just asana. actually, that asana can be part of it. And even when we're physically limited to a certain extent, there are definitely ways that we can approach the body, hold shapes, support the body. so it like alongside Ashtangar, I I teach restorative and hatha, which you there's a heavy use of props. so we'll always say there is an access point into the body. Whatever that looks like, it might not look like and that it's gonna look slightly different for all of us, but there are access points into the body. And ultimately, really, yoga is breath and focus. So the control of the breath. So there's an understanding that our breath is connected to our nervous system. And so then the way that we use the breath affects our perception and our nervous system, our mind. so yoga ultimately is that, right? Is mind control, you could say, self control. and so that could look just like meditation. It could look like pranayama, might be asana. it might be chanting. there's there's different, you know, it's not just the sana, even though that's predominantly how it's pr practiced and taught, Asana is basically a posture. So asana in yoga means seat. It's like the seat that you sit in. so in you know, in ancient times this would have been like a s a a meditation posture. but obviously in modern times we, you know, it's warrior one, warrior two, back bends, front, you know, it's like this kind of real physically focused postural practice. but it doesn't necessarily it's not in in in ancient times it's actually not historically been that, actually. this is kind of a modern development, which is valid. Doesn't mean it's not the same authentic yoga, it just means that there's that that's how beautiful and rich yoga actually is, which it has all of these different ways that we can approach it. Yeah.
speaker-0: And I love that you speak about this in your book, of course, too, right? Because there has been a bit of like a capitalistic approach to yoga, especially in the Western world. And so there many of us, especially, yeah, the Westerners, see yoga as a very commercialized put on your yoga, Lululemon, go to the gym, grab your water bottle. And it's not that that's a negative. I mean, I can say that there's, you know, I might have some judgment of it if I'm being completely honest, but that's only because, you know, I think I I get to do that. However, it also has made yoga more accessible to people, or maybe introduced it to people that it may not have reached otherwise. So again, both both things can be true. But I what I appreciate about you, Shaka, in both what how you write about it, also how you teach it. I've had the pleasure of taking a class with you. you do bring us back to, I feel the the true essence and the heart of yoga in its in its purest form, even if you know we are living in the modern day. in Western culture. So thank you for that. in our last few minutes together, which I'm I'm just I've been enjoying this conversation so, so, so much, but I do want to ask at least one closing question, which is if someone leaves this conversation and steps onto their mat tomorrow, whether that's to sit in a pose or just sit and meditate or breathe, what do you hope shifts for them and for the world that shift ripples out into?
speaker-1: As you were asking that question, I guess the first thing that came to me was like when you come to your mat or your seat, your seated posture, like ultimately what you're doing is facing yourself. Like ultimately you're being with yourself. and to varying degrees, that can be easy or hard, depending on the day, depending on the time. And so I would always invite us to keep coming back to. ourselves, even when it's uncomfortable, even when it's difficult. And I always say in often in my yoga classes, a a voice of infinite compassion, yeah, or infinite space of compassion around you that you are able to bring to your practice who you are. There's nothing you're not it's nothing you're supposed to be, nothing you're supposed to do other than show up and be in relationship with yourself and bring that awareness with your breath. With the practice itself, because things are gonna come up. You're gonna notice, my shoulders hurt, there's dirt on the floor, I need to sweep that up. I need to go and do this. I need to go and call this person. there's that thing, I want to cry. Everything is there in the in the map. And I think the practice invites us to just be with. Just be with what is there. And the more that we can do that, the more that we build our capacity to show up more authentically in the world. And I just believe that if enough people do that, we're gonna be fine. We're gonna figure it out.
speaker-0: Which is why we need books like yours and people like you, which is why you're doing what you're doing. And and even for those who are watching and aren't writing books and doing this, I mean, of course, you matter as well. but we are here to uplift these voices and to celebrate the stories that you're bringing into the world that we need right now. Chaka, before we wrap up, are there any closing thoughts that you would like to share with us? Anything else that's dropping in?
speaker-1: Know, just always just come back to love. Like just come back to love, like in the end, like we can talk, we can chat, but in the end that's where we come back to it. All makes sense when we come back to that place in our hearts. And and I just invite us to all just continue find places where we can drop in and connect to the energy of love and and yeah, and just thank you. I guess I also would just say really thank you for for having me today. it's really wonderful to see you all and be here. So yeah, it's it's Just deep gratitude. Thank you.
speaker-0: Thank you, Shaka. This was wonderful. Thank you all for supporting us, supporting these authors, supporting me, supporting Awakened Village Press. We could not do this without every single one of you. I love you all. Thank you so much. Ciao for now.
speaker-1: Yeah.
Amanda Johnson: Thank you for being a part of this conversation. If something in today's episode resonated with you and you're wanting a space to explore your own creative path, I'd love to welcome you into the Author's Village, our community for writers, creators, and thoughtful humans walking this path together. You can learn more through the link in our show notes. Until next time, thanks for being here.
