44: Grieving a Future After Loss

WEBVTT
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Welcome to Getting Back Up with grief, meet, growth.
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Two men, two fathers, and one shared journey of rebuilding.
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We're talking about life after cancer, love, loss, and everything no one tells you.
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I'm David McLean.
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And I'm Jamal Jones.
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And we welcome you to Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death.
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Hey, man, I caught myself the other day just thinking about something that actually will never happen.
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What's that?
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What you what you you got for me?
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What's that sense of retirement and what that looks like?
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I'm listening, I'm I'm starting to count.
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I mean, at least pay attention to how far it is.
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I always say, man, it's the touchdown.
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One good Hail Mary.
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Yeah.
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I mean, we're getting close to that age, but I think it's more about this planning of retirement that was supposed to be with her, my late wife.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That that hits differently.
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Yeah.
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That hits differently.
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Yeah.
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I just I think you always start to think about what that eventuality would have been, what what that actually would have looked like.
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And assume that she was supposed to be there to see all this out and all these plans that are happening.
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Yeah, that's that's uh it's that's a different type of grief.
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Yeah.
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Um that that's a different, and I I know I've I've been there for sure, and I'm sure our listeners have been there in in in different ways too, but that's a different one.
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Yeah, and and that's what we want to focus on today is that talking about something that widowers definitely experience, but they really don't talk about this and name it.
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Rarely, rarely name what what this is.
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Yeah, it's it's we're talking about grieving the future, right?
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Like dreams that you had and and these unanswered parts or these unwritten parts of your your your previous journey that you thought that your mind built.
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Right.
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Right.
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Not not just losing your spouse now.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, we talk about often you know losing a life you were trying to build together, like you already had this identity that was tied together.
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Now you're losing it's unfinished business, right?
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Like it's this unfinished business that you didn't get to follow through on, and you had built it in your your mind for so long that this is this is gonna be the story.
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Yeah, I mean this this is real grieving, this grieving of the future.
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This this is a real sense and form of grief.
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There's just there's just no question about that.
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Yeah, and and and I think you know, and in reality, it's oh it's okay to build that future, it's okay to to hold on to that and realize that you had this deep connection with somebody, with this person, and you had these these dreams, yeah.
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And now you're in this place where you're designing and beginning this future without this person.
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You're rewriting a book, or you're having her edit a story real time that you had written and were ready to publish, right?
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Yeah, and now they're added chapters and rewrites and all of that at this point.
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So, I mean, let's kind of get into it for you, as as far as your stories.
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Yeah, I mean, I think you know, I think the reality, right, is for me, I didn't realize how long like I I think you don't realize how long the grief lasts, or how long these m memories pop up, or how how how these things, these elements of what you thought life was gonna be like presents itself and it presents itself in a different way.
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I think that that's the thing that that that I've been surprised for.
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Yeah, because it's that time doesn't wait for these new milestones.
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They're they're still gonna keep coming, whether you're at this new point and and embracing this moving forward.
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Yeah, and and and like the milestones in of them s in and of themselves remind you.
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Yeah, right.
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And and sometimes they're sometimes the the where you thought or what you're writing now may be better or different.
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Different.
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Right, I won't say maybe maybe better is not the right way, maybe different in and not a bad way than you foresaw it, right?
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Than you originally had planned it.
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But but she was supposed to be here.
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But someone else, but yeah, you thought there was somebody else that was supposed to be here.
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Yeah, right.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And I think that that's the that's where the the challenge is.
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I think that's where the struggle happens in many cases.
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So so get into what the marriage was supposed to be for you when Janice was still around.
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Yeah at that point, when we're thinking of this future, this retirement that we're talking about, absent the person with whom you're supposed to retire.
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And of course, you had some other challenges to that marriage.
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Again, as you said about your marriage, which I think is very important for us to say here, is if the cancer hadn't killed Janice, yeah, like the marriage would have the stress of the marriage might kill her and me, right?
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Yeah, right, exactly.
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Right.
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And and I think that's it's important.
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Like, so I always try to preface it with like everybody, we all go through this, we all go through marriage.
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Anybody who's married, you go through the ups and downs, and and some of them last through, and sometimes you're able to weather through them, and sometimes you're you're not.
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And I think where I was, where we were, where Janice and I were when she got diagnosed, we were both in a place where we were really, really at the point where like this is not working, right?
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We we we we can't get past our things, we're we're not willing to change certain things, and and that was that was the reality of our situation.
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So for me, like at that point, I had already said started looking at the end of my book, right?
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Well, not the end, but I already started looking at like man, I have to rewrite this chapter, these chapters that I thought were gonna be one way.
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Yeah, that that was something that was for me not necessarily about, oh, well, I'm not gonna retire with this person, or I'm not going to have a vacation home with this person, or or all, you know, whatever.
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It was more about learning, okay.
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Well, I'm gonna be co-parenting with this person.
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I'm gonna be co-parenting with with Janice if if and when when we get divorced.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Like that was what my beginning path was.
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That's how I saw it.
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When she got diagnosed, and before she passed, before we got to the point where we realized it was sh she likely wouldn't wouldn't survive it, it was it was a different re realization, right?
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And I had started be thinking about, well, wait, man, we have this marriage we were trying to we were thinking about ending.
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It it's gonna end in a different way, but well man, we haven't resolved some of these things that we had beef about, like all these tensions, like these things we you know, I'm not gonna get are we gonna get closure in these things?
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Are we gonna get to this point where like what?
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Do you have any just just trust issues or things that we, you know, we couldn't get on the same page about finances, like, but but was it trust to move forward as co-parenting or maybe even trust that we would be there through to support the kids?
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Okay.
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Trust that if we're not together in a marriage, that doesn't mean that we won't be there to support each other through the thick and thin.
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We're still we still loved each other, we just didn't love each other together together anymore.
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Right.
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And we still had children that we believed that we were wanted to support.
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So it's like, are we gonna be there and and and is this the new design?
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Then there was a part of me that honestly was like, before I when when we were battling and before she she passed when when I thought she would survive it, I was like, wait, maybe we maybe we do rewrite this ending, maybe we can survive this, and maybe the marriage can survive this, and maybe we get past this, and maybe cancer saves our marriage, right?
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But there's still those fundamental challenges.
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But those, yeah, those still those still things still exist and you still figure, like, hey, we've done this, we can tackle every any mountain.
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Uh-huh.
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But I think when you think about the rewrite, when you think about what you saw as the ending or what you imagine is the future, there's there's still a lot of questions, right?
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Even for me, there were a lot of a questions as to what this future will look like with this person.
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And I think when when when she passed, there were one, many unanswered questions around would the marriage s have survived?
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What would we have looked like in divorce?
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What does my life look like now that everything's been turned on its side?
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Like, are all the plans that we had together or that I had individually and I contemplated divorce when we talked about divorce?
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Like all of these are like what happens now?
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Right.
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But then you talk about the milestones with the kids graduating middle school, high school, like all of these different things.
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Right.
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And it just presents itself each time that it's like, well, whether we were married or not, she should be here for this.
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Yeah.
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Whether whether we were married or not, we would have all thrown this party together.
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Right.
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Yes.
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Right.
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Whether we were married or not, and and and I talked even now with my, you know, now I'm I'm remarried.
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I think my wife now, Jordan, and Janice would have gotten along.
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Right?
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Because I knew who I knew how Janice was.
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I saw how she was with my stepson and how she embraced his siblings from his his previous his his his you know from his his father's uh relationship.
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So so Janice's first husband, right?
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Yeah, so I saw how she was and she always presents, she always, it was about the children, right?
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And it was like we're here together in the community to support these children.
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And as long as she saw that and felt that from Jordan, she'd be like, yo, let's let's let's pray on this party together, right?
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So there's things that now like that that I think about like, wow, like But there still would have been a lot of work to do.
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Oh, oh, hell of a lot of work, yeah.
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No shortage of work.
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We both mutually have to decide.
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Right.
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We are given another lease on the life of our marriage.
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Right.
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And a lease on your life too.
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Right.
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What are we going to do to make the best of this time that we have left?
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Because it's not promised.
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Right, right.
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So so in many ways, right, like with her passing, yeah, all of these different things have changed.
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All of these different pages that that were that we had written, that we had imagined as a as a couple, that we had written and as imagined as we contemplated divorce.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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And then like all of it changes.
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Right.
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Right?
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Like all of it changes, and all of it you get to each milestone, and you're always saying, Oh man.
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How what would it have been like, well, she would have been here.
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And if she was here, this if Janice was here, like this other element would have been here, or we would have done this as well.
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Or you're always or proving in that you are better apart.
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But each milestone, as you come together and co-parent, you're getting better and better and better at showing and modeling for your children, oh yeah, you you can be divorced.
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Yeah.
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And it still works.
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Yeah.
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And the kids know that they're in love.
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Right.
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You see these stereotypes are present.
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Yeah, you see these stereotypical shows where people are divorced and it's just like, ah, they hate each other.
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That's not reality.
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Like, yes, that happens.
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Sure.
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But in in many situations, two parents who love each other, yeah, and love their children and their family that they've built, extended, and also have also say, hey, we're like, we've got to be civil and we just grew apart for different reasons or just marriage.
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And I think that's something that like it gets contemplated differently when you think about like to when you wake up and you have the milestone or the moment and you're like, man, I what would retirement look like?
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Or for me, when I say that, well, like, what would retirement look like?
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It'd be me saying, Hey, uh Janice, me and Jordan are going here.
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You make sure the kids, like, you know, Zia, Jackie, whoever has this thing coming up or whatever.
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Like, I think they wanted one of us to be there.
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Yeah.
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Well, I don't know, but that's what it is.
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That's what it would be.
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Right.
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Right.
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And and and it would be different if it, if, if, if we were, if we had survived, if we'd figured out how to work through our differences.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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The the dream and the vision may be different.
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And I think that's the part where either way you wake up, either way you have those moments, and you're like, whoa, like this is not the story I pred I I thought we were writing.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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So I don't know.
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But I mean, what's your I mean, I know your your your perspective is totally different than mine.
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So I like what's I know you you had the aha moment the other day when you had the that retirement uh glimpse of retirement, and now it looks different.
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Yeah, I mean, it it's not only the collection of milestones that all uh we talk about all the time, as far as Miela driving, that's my oldest.
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Yeah.
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And the different concerts that happened that Nalani would have enjoyed, my late wife would have enjoyed seeing my our our oldest playing trumpet and moving up to symphonic band, or those kinds of things.
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And for for Kara, my youngest, getting into dance and and really enjoying that and having a good time with that.
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And where we live, they don't play as far as as the arts.
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Yeah.
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And so there is a real focus and determination on that.
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But I think it and and also they want to win and they want these children as it relates to competitions and whatever, but they want the children to grow in that, not only the successes, but also the challenges and losses that they have in competition and what have you.
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So with the performing arts and where we are, they don't play.
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They know the particular the structure, they know this is going to help them in other aspects of their lives, whether they become dancers, uh musicians, what whatever it is.
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Yeah, it's serious about it.
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They whatever career and whatever place they're going to go, they're going to be better for it because if they were in this program, okay, too much of a plug on arts out on performing arts, but I mean it's really important.
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It is.
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It really is.
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But this is what I was gonna say about the retirement piece, which is there you and I talk about chapter two.
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We're at that point.
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We're starting to think about hey, what is what does this next number of years look like?
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And how do I start doing mission-based uh activities, career that makes sense for us that gives me the fulfillment.
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Yeah, sure.
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Working in the corporate life, there's there's a lot that it brings you.
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But the deeper interpersonal connection and seeing what you're doing for other people, that's something else.
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So this idea of retirement with Nalani, the both thinking about what does chapter two look like.
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Right.
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What does do we start to look at investing in another place that we can go to seasonally?
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Those kinds of things.
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Yeah.
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And just the vacations that we won't take as the girls finish middle school, high school, whatever that is, that we go, the those family vacations that we won't have anymore in retire in our retirement where we're pulling back and spending more time with them because we don't we won't have them much longer in that household.
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Yeah.
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So so so that's where it really caught me as related to retirement.
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Not not not the career so much as it is sharing life.
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Life, yeah.
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Yes.
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Yeah, the life, the life.
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How do you how do you get to the phase the last few chapters where you're coexisting every day and your your world is finishing this world and showing getting your children to this next yeah, your adult children to this next level of their own lives.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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And grandkids, hopefully, and all that stuff.
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Yeah.
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And and to the degree we can control it, making sure our health is in touch.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Because that's where you and I are having to think about that because we have older parents, as many of you do.
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Oh, bad knees.
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And bad knees.
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Right.
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I mean, these things happen.
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And to us they do, and we're, oh man.
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So it's how do we work?
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:44.960
Nalani and I think about our health as we go forward, because the challenges are gonna come.
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:45.359
Right.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:46.960
How's it feel now?
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:52.079
Like in that, like in that moment where you were like, wait, I've I've gotta rewrite this.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.119
This yeah, this this story is now gonna be different.
00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:55.519
Yeah.
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.000
Like, how did like like what was that?
00:17:58.799 --> 00:17:59.920
How did that feel?
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:06.480
I I it's it it hurts at first because you did not plan to be where you are today.
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:08.960
I did not plan this would happen.
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:14.400
And I would have to think about, all right, well, where else am I gonna find joy and happiness?
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.720
Yeah, I mean, certainly the progression of my kids, that's very fulfilling.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:19.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.119
But what about me?
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:27.599
I mean, I had these plans, and now I have to think about it does that involve somebody else now?
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:27.920
Right.
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.480
So it is real time for me right now.
00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:31.039
Yeah.
00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:39.519
And I'm I'm in a relationship now, and you see so much promise for what it can be.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:43.200
And it's also, I think about my mom, who I talk about all the time.
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.240
And because she's a model of what it looks like growing older, right?
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:54.160
What not woe is me, but I'm curious about the rest of the world and the rest of the time I have.
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.640
Let me go do this and that.
00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:56.880
Right.
00:18:57.039 --> 00:18:58.160
That's what my mother does.
00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:58.480
Yeah.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.680
So she's a good example for me in that way.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:13.519
So I also think about how independent her life and and also hers coexisted with the person with whom she had a relationship after Tiny Gooden.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.759
Yeah, you know, yeah, Tiny Mike, who he wasn't the cowboy.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:18.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:25.839
And and she met another man and they brought their lives together, and then they were as good together as they were apart.
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:26.319
Right.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:27.200
Until he passed.
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:27.680
Right.
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.200
So, you know, so that's rewriting, just like you said.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:31.599
Yeah.
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.559
Now I am going into this rewrite.
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:35.039
How's it?
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:48.880
I mean, I think that's the part where you're like, I I think there the there's a part where you do this, you go through that rewrite, that phase, yeah, and you're resisting rewriting.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:50.079
Right?
00:19:50.240 --> 00:20:01.680
So much of the story, so much of what you started writing with you know, your late wife, with our late wives, right, was like, oh, well, like so much of you functions almost like, well, it has to be this way.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:02.160
Right.
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:03.200
But it doesn't.
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:03.599
Right.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:08.240
And to your point, I think you bring up a good point of like I I get to I'm I'm now having to rethink that.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:08.720
That's right.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.680
One, because your identity is now your singular identity, and yes, you're dating.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:26.240
And like for me, it's like my identity went from or my identity went from Jamal married to to to Janice to single father to the widowed.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:34.960
Widowed and widowed and impact that to single father figuring out to dating, married, and now working.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:39.680
Through that whole process, right, working through all of these different things.
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.000
Yeah.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:52.400
But then now getting to but also getting to a point where, oh wait, what I thought was gonna be the end in these these chapters of what life was gonna be like, I'm having to rewrite it now.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.720
And some of this is uncomfortable, right?
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.480
Some of this is different than I thought it was gonna be.
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.519
And I would say it's again, it's not bad, it's not good, it's uncomfortable.
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:04.079
Right?
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:09.279
And that's the part that I think is like that we have to sit on sometimes.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.039
That it's like it's not a bad thing.
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.920
Like, don't feel bad feeling uncomfortable, right?
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:14.960
It should be uncomfortable.
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:20.160
You're rewriting a part of your life that you had that's right, for you know, forecasted, so to speak.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:20.799
That's right.
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:21.119
Right.
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:22.319
And and I think that's important.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:27.200
You had the cast of characters, you had the story essentially written.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.480
The the the structure was there, but then it changed.
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:31.039
It changed.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:31.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:37.920
And it's with new cast of characters, new situations that arise because of these new cast mixes.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:38.480
Exactly.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:38.799
Exactly.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:40.799
So which we will get deep into on another.
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.599
Oh, yeah, and listen, and there, and then listen, and then you know, and when you have children, guess what?
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.279
They're writing their own story, and you and you have to adjust to that.
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:58.240
So yeah, so what this really is, bad, it it's grieving unfinished chapters, and some that you were uncomfortable to know you're gonna.
00:21:58.640 --> 00:21:59.759
It's not maybe these aren't memorable.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.200
You didn't create them yet.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:02.240
Yeah, there are possibilities.
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.200
There were possibilities.
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:08.000
There was something that you thought, you believed, you created this vision.
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:08.720
We all did.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:10.480
We created this vision in our minds.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:11.039
Yeah.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:17.279
Sometimes, sometimes collectively with our partners, of what life would look like in the future.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:17.680
Yeah.
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:18.160
Right.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:20.319
And I think that's the that's the hard part.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:20.960
Yeah.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:27.680
And then, you know, like at the end of the day, it's a it's a script you assumed was gonna that you were gonna play out.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:28.160
Yeah.
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:28.640
Right?
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:38.240
Uh uh it was a script, a play, a show, or a book, but like your mind is essentially just trying to fill in the blanks through this period.
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:38.799
Yeah.
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:40.160
And guess what?
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:40.960
It's blank.
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:42.799
It's white paper for you to rewrite.
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.400
That's the reason it's white.
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:46.000
That's the reason it it's blank.
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:51.200
It's your your your your mind is giving you space to rewrite the future.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:52.799
Yeah, no, no question about it.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.960
So so this is where it shows up.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:55.599
Yeah.
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:59.200
It it it shows up in these moments you you just don't expect.
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:04.160
You're you're thinking about tomorrow instead of yesterday.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:10.160
Yeah, you're like you're listening you're sitting on the milestones and the what-ifs.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.799
What what happens with when my daughter gets married?
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.319
What's the wedding gonna look like?
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:14.960
Guess what?
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:15.759
That's changed.
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.759
Yeah, and again, about the retirement conversation where it shows up that well, when do we do that?
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.279
When does all this kind of click in where we're living easy life?
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.440
I don't know what that actually means.
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.039
Yeah, yeah, people say it.
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:29.680
Exactly.
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:31.279
Or like travel plans.
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:41.200
I know if it is I always laugh if it was, you know, Janice used to always say, Oh, I want to retire on a beach running uh a little tiki bar.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:41.599
Yeah.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.079
And I used to be like, Oh, that sounds nice for you.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.599
I don't want to sit here, let's live on a beach with a tiki bar, right?
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:50.559
But like I and at the time I didn't know what it was.
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.400
Now I'm having a get you know, like having these conversations again.
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:57.680
Like it's it's a different vision, you know, that you plan.
00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.039
So yeah, yeah.
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:00.880
Then empty nest.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:02.240
I mean kids are gone.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:04.079
You can't foresee that for a little while.
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:04.480
I know that.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:06.559
Yeah, I got I press reset, man.
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:08.319
I got a I got a five-year-old.
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:15.519
Yeah, so you're coming to be I mean, these folks we're talking to, I'm sure that what does that look like now?
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:16.880
Yeah, you do that.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:20.319
Some of it, and some of them are becoming empty nesters.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:29.920
Some of you are becoming empty nesters, and you're having to figure this out, a life that you thought was gonna be one way, and you've got your children living their own lives.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:43.359
And listen, it was hard enough for me when my when my my byla, my oldest Jackie, left the house and she's off, she's 21 now, and I'm like missing, you know, missing her, wondering what she's doing on a day-to-day basis.
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:45.519
But you know, I I can only imagine.
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:47.599
But can you imagine weddings?
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.079
That that's got to be hard where it shows up.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:50.480
Yeah.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:54.480
Because that dance and song.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:55.039
Yeah.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:59.200
And I mean, I I cry at chorus concerts of my daughter.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:00.400
You you know, you know what I'm saying?
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:00.640
Yes.
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:01.519
I hold it in.
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.079
I've seen it.
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:02.640
I've seen it.
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:02.880
Yeah.
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:03.599
It's tough.
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:05.839
You know, it is like my grandmother in that way.
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.200
No, listen, we all are.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.000
We all are, we all present it differently, right?
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:30.400
You know, it and and and I think those are the moments like when you start thinking about we've we've talked about the the holiday traditions, and the wedding is gonna be, you know, are you wearing I I've still got Janice's wedding dress in our house because I don't know if that's gonna be something one of the girls want to wear.
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:34.079
Maybe they won't, maybe they will, styles change, who knows?
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:39.599
But it's like, you know, from a those are things that come up and they present themselves.
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:40.000
That's right.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:40.640
That's right.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.039
Because somewhere, somewhere along the line, there was a discussion.
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:50.240
Don't get rid of the dress because one of the kids might, one of the girls might want to.
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:51.920
And you just probably knew that.
00:25:52.160 --> 00:26:01.839
Without someone having to prompt you, you probably just knew that as you were going through moving from Austin out here, like, uh someone wrote that in in the manuscript.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:02.160
Yeah.
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:02.640
Right.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:10.000
And you know, so I think those are those are gonna be things, you know, friends, they're aging together, financial planning, yeah.
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:24.640
Right, is is is is one thing that always comes up when you talk about the future, and you know, I was one page, you know, Janice and I could never get on the same page about, so yeah, it's a little bit easier.
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:26.240
A lot of couples can't get on the same.
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:34.000
Yeah, like a lot of couples, but like that's again, like those are things that you that that that where all of this stuff shows up.
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:48.319
Yeah, and we've talked about this before, but bear's repeating here are the holiday traditions and how that is different, and then that becomes a new added memory, and that's fine, that's moving forward.
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:49.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:50.160
What surprised you?
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:58.240
Like, what are you know, I I I talked about kind of earlier for me, like it was just the the the time, how long, how far out these things still present themselves.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:07.680
Yeah, what for you is I I think as they happened that you knew you saw them coming, and you thought, oh no, I'm gonna I'm gonna work through it.
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.640
It'll be fine, but then when it comes, it's something different.
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:11.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.400
It's it's yeah, it's it's it's you know, it's it's it's it's not real though.
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:23.759
It's emotionally, it's like you're almost grieving, like I said, you're almost grieving a vision.
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:24.240
Yeah.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.160
And not something that actually happened.
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:26.720
Exactly.
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:33.119
And that's the thing too, is not that I was surprised that I didn't miss something that never was going to happen.
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:33.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:34.400
Yeah.
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:34.960
Yeah.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:38.720
Um, you know, you talked about feeling sadness, right?
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:44.480
Feeling sadness for a moment that that retirement vision isn't gonna be there.
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.119
Um yeah, I mean, it's like crazy.
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:54.000
It's like you you tr when you think about the complexity of grief, yeah, and how you can grieve possibilities.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:02.319
That's in and of itself, it like tells you how intricate intricately intertwined the heart and the mind are.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:02.640
Yeah.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.400
When they create the the vision of love.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:06.960
Right.
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:07.359
Yeah.
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:10.559
I think that's that to me is like it's a powerful reality.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:11.039
Yeah.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.160
You know what it what what happens in this period.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:22.319
Yeah, what also surprised me, I think, too, and and for for you all, is is that you're realizing that that grief evolves.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:28.640
And it's always there, but it's how you manage it in your life.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:33.920
It's not every day, and then it's shown on you that, oh, he must be grieving or right.
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:34.880
So know that.
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:35.359
Right.
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.799
That it it evolves and it doesn't paralyze hopes.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:39.599
That's that's the hope.
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:51.759
Yeah, I think you know what's funny, I it's like, you know, they they say in in analytics, you know, or if you know if you do it with data or anything like that, there's always there's always the view of like there's this chart, and they always talk about the long tail.
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.319
Right.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:59.920
So the the like you if you think about grief in the early phases, it's like this heavy, heavy grief in the beginning, and it fades out.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.160
And over time it's becomes this really, really thin trickle of grief.
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:04.480
Yeah.
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.720
And that's what we're talking about, right?
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:12.559
It's like the missed moments, the what-ifs and the imagines, right?
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:16.799
And like that's the long tale where like the grief doesn't completely go away.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:17.599
No, it can't.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:18.400
It can't, right?
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:19.839
Because this person was important to you.
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:28.720
It's just like it's it's less of a it's less upfront, less painful than it was up front, and more of this kind of lingering, you know, recall.
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:29.039
Yeah.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:42.000
So it's a recall or or you know, I won't say forecast, but it's more of like a recaller or or wish, hope, dream that's you're still h holding on to.
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:42.480
Yeah.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:42.880
Yeah.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:44.000
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:52.000
And maybe it helps you open yourself up to more to replace because you've worked through that sense of grief.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:53.920
Then it starts to replace more.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:00.000
Well, let me let these memories in for the sake of them adding to my moving forward.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:00.319
Yep.
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:01.440
And and that's fine.
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:19.359
And and so this idea of really discovering new layers years later, not only the idea of uh the the missing of what was, right, but then also new layers that opened you up to, okay, well, I I can add on to this and and I'm fine.
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:19.680
Yeah.
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:22.720
And so let me continue to to to move in this way.
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:32.160
Yeah, and I think uh I think when you I I like the idea of like I'm fine, because that's where this intertwined this this this blending of like gratitude and sadness comes in.
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:32.480
Yeah.
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.680
Right, like I'm fine, is I'm still sad she's gone.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:36.079
Sure.
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:37.839
I'm still sad that I lost this person.
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:40.000
Well, you for the children for the children, right?
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.640
I'm still sad for her community on the years, yeah.
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:44.319
Yeah, for for all of these different reasons.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:44.960
Yep.
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:53.680
But I'm I'm grateful for this life that I got to have and the the outcomes of it, right?
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:59.519
Children, memories, all this, you know, laughs, joys, all of this, all the good stuff.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:10.160
But that's where it, like when you talk about it evolving and becoming something where you have these conflicting emotions and these conflicting feelings around it.
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:15.839
It's less about, oh, I'm so sad or I'm not happy, or less like I'm happy, I can't believe I'm happy.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:16.880
Because you're conflicted.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:25.119
It's like this this back and forth element of like the grief, the sadness, and the great, you know, this this gratefulness that you had this.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.319
That's right.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:27.119
Yeah.
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:32.799
And then like this is like the reality is like this is so much about the future.
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:38.240
Like it's just focused that loss isn't just about the past, it's also about the what could have been.
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:38.960
Right.
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:50.240
And I think that's the the the part that we're talking about here is you can grieve the future, or what you thought was gonna be the future, as much as you can grieve the past.
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:52.400
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:53.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:53.599 --> 00:32:16.240
Um, and uh, you know, I think one of the things I I struggled with though, as I think about that, and to kind of touch on a little bit is like letting go for people who are in relationships in particular, um who you know, you had challenges in the relationship.
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:26.720
Um, I think there's a part of like for me that I struggled with early on, and and sometimes it still comes up where you like you struggle with the lack of closure, right?
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:28.160
Like you you struggle.
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:37.119
I know I I I did, I struggled with not being able to have that final, I'm sorry, conversation.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:42.559
Or have those final conversations with each other around like, hey, I just want the best for you.
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:51.279
Like all the things that you it is for me, like I had the all of these conversations in my head around like squashing the beef, right?
00:32:51.440 --> 00:33:03.680
It's like like let's let it in and and granted, we we did have so many conversations and different conversations while she was babbling, even when she realized, and we both realized that she wasn't gonna likely gonna survive it.
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:12.079
So we did have some, but there's so many things that are left unsaid and resolutions that you didn't really get, like closure that you didn't get to have.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:25.839
Yeah, and I know so many of us grievers are missing closure for something, but when you have a marriage or a relationship or somebody passes suddenly and you just had a fight, right?
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:38.480
Like, like those things get left so and they leave such deep open wounds that are undescribable versus like situations where people were like you know very happy or whatever.
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:40.640
And I think that it just presents a different type of grief.
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:47.039
And for which you have to you you have to forgive yourself for for so much of that.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:47.599
Yeah.
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:52.799
It and because that were the building blocks for a life that you thought you were building, right?
00:33:53.119 --> 00:34:04.160
Essentially, yeah, which now you have to take moving forward, whatever your life looks like now, which you you clearly have something very concrete in how you have moved forward, yeah.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:15.760
You're now wife, child, and just all the children where they're going and where they're going to end up career-wise, their relationships, what whatever the case may be.
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:26.079
But I think where I really struggle with with this whole idea of what life was supposed to be is that reimagining the the the future.
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:31.360
You know, it's we started to talk about it a little um a moment ago.
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:38.400
It's that it's this open green pastures, white palette or blank palette.
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:38.719
Yeah.
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:40.719
And and that that has to be written still.
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:41.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:50.880
And then, you know, you go through the phase where you're you're there now, and and even though you're still, even though you're dating now, you you're still planning alone.
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:51.519
That's true.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.199
Like you that's hard.
00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:01.599
Because you're you're planning alone and you don't necessarily want to be alone, but you're kind of you're planning for more than one possibility now.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.039
That's difficult.
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:13.599
That's like a that's a it's a a totally different write, you know, a totally different uh script than what you probably what you spent 20 years writing.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:14.079
Right.
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:24.880
Because it was thinking of twos, thinking of twos or f or fours or wherever they're two different plans for you know the the the woman I had married and the children.
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:31.280
Better as in a relationship, make sure that we as a couple have some future after they're gone.
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:31.599
Right.
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:33.360
And we all need to think about it.
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:41.519
Oh, yeah, because you have so many people, like this is real, like so many people build their life and then the kids leave and they're like, I don't know who you are.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:42.800
Right exactly.
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:44.159
Why am I still here?
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:44.639
Yeah.
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:51.679
So I I think what I also struggled though is is what you're saying too, that can come from planning alone is feeling hopeful.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:52.320
Yeah.
00:35:52.559 --> 00:36:03.360
And so I'm starting to let and have been, and you and I have talked about it, letting that hope and joy and happiness in.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:08.800
So therefore, I can feel a little bit more hopeful because I know there is a future that that move it forward.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:09.360
Right.
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:17.840
And I think the the expectations, because when you're doing that too, like you're also you you have to be find this way to be hopeful, but you also have to let go.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:26.960
Reality is like you were building, potentially building a dream in a life based on not just your own expectations, but somebody else's expectations.
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.960
And this comes into where the compromises have to take place.
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:43.440
Again, I joked earlier that you know Janice would have loved retirement to be, you know, 45 years old and living on a beach, yeah, running a tiki bar, right?
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:47.119
Like, and for me, like I was like, man, that's a hard negotiation.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:51.760
I I don't see financially how that's gonna happen, but I got I got some work to do with it.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:52.400
Right.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:55.440
But it also allows me to change the expectations, right?
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:01.599
It also allows me to change my own expectations now of uh when I was planning a loan, yeah.
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:15.280
But even as I started relationship with with my wife Jordan, and we started talking about what the future and started redesigning, I had to say, what am I comfortable letting go of in in this story that I wrote before?
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:16.639
What wasn't I comfortable writing?
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:17.039
That's right.
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:19.039
What wasn't what wasn't me before?
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:21.519
What was the negotiation that I had to make?
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:24.960
And what can I rewrite now with this new person?
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:25.440
Right.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:26.000
Right.
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:29.119
And and what did I agree with?
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:30.639
What was I cool with before?
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:33.760
And I and and like that's the thing, like the expectations change.
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:38.480
But but also to that point, it's those things that you thought that you wanted.
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:41.760
Is that a hard stop for you if you don't get it?
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:43.760
It's whoa whoa whoa with your now wife.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:46.960
Hey, this I had planned to do, I still want that.
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:47.440
Right.
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:55.519
And so we're we're gonna have to negotiate and mutually understand and put together the plan to get there.
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:56.559
Because this is very important.
00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:13.760
And and here's the even more complex part is some of these dreams and some of this stuff that you imagine, that you vision was not just for you and Alani or for me and and Janice at the time or whatever, it was for the kids.
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:14.159
Yeah.
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:18.639
So how much of that changes versus stays in place, right?
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:27.519
And when you bring a new partner to the the the you know, into the picture, you're also saying, hey, like this is what I agreed with.
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:28.079
Right.
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:29.679
I'm carrying this forward.
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:30.239
Yes.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:37.199
We could build around it or build on top of it, but this is this was the design for them, right?
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.320
That's a whole different discussion.
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:47.280
And and and some people look like you know, may think about like, oh, you know, you're you're paying homage to this person.
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:51.199
No, I aligned with this is what I wanted for these kids.
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:51.760
That's right.
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:55.119
That's what we were that's and then that's what we aligned on.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.840
That's what so much of the foundation of the relationship was was built on was around the kids.
00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:00.239
Yeah.
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:02.960
So that's a vision you probably can't let go.
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:03.280
Right.
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:04.480
Well, you don't want to.
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:12.159
And then again, the struggle that you are talking about is building these new dreams atop what you had already had envisioned.
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:12.480
Right.
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:14.400
So that that's kind of that neck phase of it.
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:15.679
It's the non-negotiables.
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.159
You struggle with the non-negotiables, those are the non-negotiables that you're gonna struggle with.
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:20.559
Yeah.
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:29.519
Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's you know, also um accepting permanent change.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.639
Like it's these it's change.
00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:35.280
It's like that book can't be written now.
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:35.920
Yeah.
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:43.840
Um, but that that that show can't be performed between you and the Lani or me and and Janice.
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:49.920
It's now us, the kids, and we've introduced new casts and new characters.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:50.480
Right.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:53.679
And they have different roles.
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:54.239
Yeah.
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:54.639
Right.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:56.639
And therefore the show is different.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:14.239
And and with all the changes that have happened as you have moved to being a widower and then a single dad, and maybe those who may not have children or whatever, is that that joy you once had, there's still some yet to come.
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.800
And and understanding that it ex it can exist.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:17.440
There's a lot.
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:26.559
There's a lot, there's a lot of stuff you can like that you can laugh about and smile about and have fun, you know.
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:26.880
Yeah.
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:30.320
Especially if you have children that are part of that picture.
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:34.559
And the simplest things that can make you joyful, yeah.
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:35.679
You know, for sure.
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:38.239
And so hold on to that.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:40.559
It's it's coming, it's still there.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:46.880
So, so please just hold on, do everything that you can so you can get there and and experience that.
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:47.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:49.679
Uh, one thing that makes it worse.
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:50.239
Okay.
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.920
Maybe there's several.
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:54.159
Don't compare yourself.
00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:55.760
Don't compare yourself.
00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:02.480
Don't compare yourself to anybody else, any other but any other family, oh yeah, any other situation.
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:05.840
Every single time that that can trip you, but still do it.
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:18.000
Yeah, you you go to the go to the diner and it's you and the two girls, and it's somebody with their family of four or five, and they it gets harder.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:18.559
Don't do it.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:24.880
Yeah, so we we know we live in a world where we know how it can be made worse.
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:26.880
Social media.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:28.880
Guys, yeah, come on.
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:31.840
Yeah, I stopped, I stopped, I stopped the death.
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.639
I honestly it was a struggle.
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:41.840
The only reason I stayed on social media was to post and let people see the kids.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:42.559
Yes.
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:50.719
Because I got tired of I I was getting tired of all the text messages and how you doing, how the kids send me a picture, how the kids, how you doing?
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.000
I I appreciated it, but after a while I was like, ah man.
00:41:54.400 --> 00:42:03.360
But every time I would get on social media, there was something reminding me of my life has changed, and I won't have that future anymore.
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:05.679
And that was that was like a constant reminder.
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:10.559
And everybody, they don't put their brokenness on social media.
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:15.119
No, they put themselves in the best ring light, yeah.
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:16.719
And and best light.
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:20.159
Yes, specifically and everybody's face look on their lives.
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:21.920
Everybody's face looks so smooth.
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.519
Oh, yeah, everybody's smooth, everybody's perfect, hair buffs.
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:28.320
Yeah, that's that's topical, guys.
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:31.280
Yeah, and and probably not real, most of it.
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:35.039
Because come on, guys, that please stay off social media.
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:35.760
Weddings.
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:37.199
Oh, yeah, that can get tough.
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:45.039
I I I think I attended a a couple after since since since Janice passed.
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:53.280
I don't think I'm trying to think if I intended if I attended any uh afterwards before I got married, yeah, um, remarried.
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:58.320
Maybe some of your friends' children are at that point or no?
00:42:58.480 --> 00:42:58.719
Okay.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:00.480
Like most of my, yeah.
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.840
A couple, a couple, but there were some reminders therefore.
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:06.960
Well, you had some young people who got married in their 40s.
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:07.360
Yes.
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:07.920
Like George.
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:08.239
Yeah.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:09.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:09.519
Yeah.
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.480
So so I mean, you know, like my own doesn't count.
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:12.800
Okay.
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:13.599
Or maybe it did.
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:15.840
Maybe there was like, oh man, I'm doing this again.
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:17.039
Um, and why?
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.280
But I think there was a but yeah, I mean, I know weddings, anniversary.
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:22.880
You always remember the anniversary date.
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:23.440
Yeah.
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:31.360
I remember I I know my anniversary date from from like it comes up and I'm like, yeah, this is yeah, that anniversary.
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:31.679
Yeah.
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:31.920
Right.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:33.199
And it's a reminder there.
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:40.000
Or like one of my best friends got married, you know, a few months before my before I got married to Jen.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:48.400
I remember his anniversary like it's like it's look, you know, and and it's a reminder that, oh, mine is coming next, right?
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:49.519
Um yeah.
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:50.480
So Yeah.
00:43:50.719 --> 00:44:03.280
And it just what makes it worse, j we we already kind of talked about don't compare yourself to other people and other families, but I think also Feeling guilty creating new dreams.
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:03.599
Yeah.
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:05.760
That's what can make it worse for sure.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:06.159
Yeah.
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:10.000
Yeah.
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:13.280
Holding on to the original life script.
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:24.400
I mean, if you think about your life as a book, you cannot write your biography until it's over.
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:25.039
Yeah.
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:25.920
Right.
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:30.800
So if you want to write a novel, I like that.
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:32.400
Then write all the pages now.
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:40.719
But if you're thinking about your life as a biography and you think about what's the next chapter, you can plan that chapter, but know that you can't write the end of that.
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.559
You can't write that chapter until it ends.
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:44.719
And I think that's how we have to think about this.
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:52.639
Like all of these things that we thought we were going to do with our late wives, positive, good, bad, or indifferent, right?
00:44:52.880 --> 00:45:05.760
All of these things that we thought were going to be our future, all these ways we thought, you know, what we thought retirement would look like, or what we thought the kids' milestones would look like.
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:09.599
We are they have to be rewritten, right?
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:13.119
Because it's it's a biography now and not a novel.
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:20.079
Um and also what makes it worse, this idea of thinking happiness means replacement.
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:20.559
Yeah.
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:22.079
That can make it worse.
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:22.480
Yeah.
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:23.920
But what helped?
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:25.199
What helped, Jamal?
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:35.599
You know, honestly, I think the thing that helped, as much as you respect the old traditions and the old ways, like being open to new traditions and new ways of doing things.
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:51.599
Like that that has helped me so much, to be honest, and respecting and honoring how we did things as a family, or what we did, or what I did before Janice was here.
00:45:51.920 --> 00:46:01.519
But after she passed, being open to there were new days to celebrate, there were new places to go, they were new vacations, right?
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:03.679
You know, we could do things differently.
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:05.519
Yeah, yeah, sure.
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:16.000
You said planning those experiences, small, large, but but definitely doing it, allowing that excitement, actual, true excitement.
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:24.880
There may be a tinge and it may have sadness and it can be muted maybe a little bit, but it nonetheless doing things that that that can be.
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:27.039
Yeah, and it and I think that's a there's a balance.
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:37.360
There's a balance in doing that and creating new memories, but also creating a memory and being able to say, wow, like Nalani or Janice, they would love this.
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:37.840
Right.
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:39.840
They would this this would have been cool to them.
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:50.000
Or just creating the memory and the experience for you and the kids, and new friends and new family or new new partners, and being like, that's just a new exciting experience.
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:54.960
Like life can move forward without those, you know, those those moments with that person.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:59.280
Yeah, and I think balanced with that is the ability to talk about future grief.
00:46:59.519 --> 00:46:59.920
Yeah.
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:17.440
Because it's now you you you you you have we're sticking with books and writing, I guess that's how I think today is that you those volumes have been written so that you can refer to them as you understand there will be grief in the future at different stages.
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:18.320
Yeah.
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:24.400
But like they, you know, the real like I was gonna the reality is both realities can exist.
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:26.159
Yeah, they can coexist together.
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:26.639
Right.
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:36.800
Like you can have a past, you can have a future that you planned and a future that has to change because of your past.
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:37.119
Yeah.
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:37.519
Right.
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:39.599
And I think those that's something to think about.
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:45.199
Like it's it's okay for this to change, it's okay for this to be different now.
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:50.639
And we talked about there's new experiences, the new forks in the road that you have to travel.
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:52.320
Yeah, dream again.
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:53.280
Go ahead.
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:54.159
It's all right.
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:55.199
Yeah.
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:56.000
It's all right.
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:56.480
Do it.
00:47:56.719 --> 00:47:56.880
Yeah.
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.239
So that that's that's what that really has helped.
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:00.639
Yep.
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.960
So if you're yeah, if you're grieving guys, and women too, who listen.
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:07.119
So when I say guys, guys are girls.
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:13.679
If you're grieving a future that that never happened, it's it's real grief.
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:16.480
And you don't have to explain it to anyone.
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:17.199
Yeah.
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:23.440
It's it's a part of the process, and you know, like I think that's something we're all gonna deal with.
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:24.400
We all deal with it.
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:31.280
You know, but I mean, think about like right, what what if moving forward isn't just about replacing the future?
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.239
What if it's just rebuilding one?
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.199
I mean, there's there's things, there's practical ways.
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:41.519
Yeah, right, like we talked about, like talk about the future grief.
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:48.400
It's okay, like it's okay to talk joyfully about this future that's right you believed you would have.
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:58.079
You can talk joyfully about it, you could talk aside about it, and you can actually grieve and miss and be okay with it, it's gotta be rewritten.
00:48:58.320 --> 00:48:59.920
Because those two things can coexist as well.
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:14.400
The the the sadness, because that reminds you of how deeply you felt about that person or what that life was was supposed to be, and then also just kind of the the joy of creating those new plans and allowing yourself to dream as as we just talked about.
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:23.280
Yeah, yeah, and we continue to say that the emotions will feel conflicted, they are conflicting, which is why grief feels so crazy sometimes.
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:27.840
Because sadness and hope can coexist, they will coexist.
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:35.360
Yeah, and in order for you to get back up, you've gotta let the hope piece of it take the lead.
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:36.400
Yeah, exactly.
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:37.760
Right, yeah, yeah.
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:51.119
You know, so I mean if you take anything from this, it's it's okay to to the the future and think and grieve and mourn for that loss, more not in a sense of paralyzed, but that healthy reflection on that.
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:59.440
Yeah, but don't let yourself stop feeling the need and the desire to create a new future.
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:16.639
Like, do not let yourself stifle your creativity and your joy and your hopefulness around what can be better in this new chapter, in this new phase of where you need to go in your life.
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:26.880
You have so much more to give, not only to the person and people that are already in your universe, but these other ones that may come in as well.
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:33.119
So we really thank you again for joining us on Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death.
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:34.639
After Death, the podcast.
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:35.840
Yeah, the podcast.
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:38.000
We got so much more coming up, don't we?
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:43.440
Yeah, we got a lot of things, a lot more shows, a lot more discussions and interviews coming.
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:46.400
And as usual, we appreciate you for joining us.
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:47.519
We thank you.
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:55.119
We ask you to continue liking, giving us the five stars, the thumbs up, sharing it, all the good stuff.
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Bring those comments.
00:50:56.480 --> 00:50:57.599
We love the comments.
00:50:57.840 --> 00:50:58.800
Yeah, we appreciate it.
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:00.159
Yeah, we really appreciate you all.
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:01.599
Thanks for listening.
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:07.280
Thank you for joining us on Getting Back Up, finding life after death.
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:12.159
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00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.760
But getting back up is how we live.
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:39.360
We'll see you all next time.