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Welcome to another episode of Fulbright forward a diversity podcast. My name is Jeremy Gombin-Sperling, the Fulbright diversity and inclusion liaison for programs in the Western Hemisphere. On today's episode, we are shifting geographic location to Ghana in West Africa, and focusing on the work of current US Fulbright scholar to Ghana Professor Candace Moore. Professor Moore is the associate clinical professor in the Higher education, Student Affairs, International Education Policy program within the Department of Counseling, Higher Education and Special Education at the University of Maryland College Park. Her research interests include understanding Black and LGBTQ student identities, contingent faculty development in higher education, supporting student success at historically black colleges and universities or HBCUs, and exploring culturally conscious pedagogy and practices in higher education.
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The focus of today's episode revolves around Dr. Moore's Fulbright project in Ghana, which is entitled "Culturally
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Collaborating to Inform Ghanaian Higher Education COVID-19 Response. During the discussion with Professor Moore which was recorded only days before she hopped on the plane to start her Fulbright, we explore numerous topics including Dr. Moore's background and pathway to the Fulbright, an analysis of the field of student affairs, reimagining the function of international educational programming, understanding blackness in a global context, and ultimately, how she has conceptualized what decolonial practices mean for her work in Ghana.
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What is key and central to Professor Moore's theory and ethics is a personal, political, economic and social concern for the continual violence that colonialism inflicts on different bodies and ways of being in the world. This means for Professor Moore that colonialism is not something relegated to the past, but rather is an ongoing phenomenon where people and institutions including that of US higher education must continue to address there orreally our role and complicity in perpetuating the hierarchies, and unequal structures that colonial projects set into motion globally in places such as West Africa, one of the most critical and harmful of those projects being the perpetuation of white supremacy and whiteness.
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Professor Moore reminds us though, that this work is best viewed along a spectrum, where each of us will enter at a different point depending on who we are, the identities we carry, and our level of engagement with decolonizing methods and thinking. What is also key to this discussion is her attention to teaching and learning as a pathway of critical hope, that in adjusting our pedagogy towards one that celebrates self-reflection and vulnerability, and one also that we prioritize our resources to amplify the cultural knowledge and needs of our partners.
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decolonization can shift from abstract or aspirational towards becoming a real and embodied practice. Please enjoy this thought-provoking and compelling conversation with Professor Candace Moore.
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Professor Moore thank you so much for being part of this Fulbright Forward episode.
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Thank you so much for having me, Jeremy. It's great to be in your presence and your company. I consider you not only a colleague, but also a friend.
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And so this is a wonderful opportunity. Thank you.
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Usually when we start these episodes, the question we ask our, the folks we're interviewing is really just, you know, tell us more about who you are. So if you wouldn't mind sharing Professor Moore, just a little about your background, and just kind of you know, how you're coming into this space today?
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Sure, absolutely. Thank you. So, you know, I think it's important to not only acknowledge that the work I do, is completely informed by the lived experiences that I've had and are having with others. But then also, I think it's important to articulate that it has transitioned and moved throughout the years as I have grown as well. And so my background is I am not only a faculty member, but I was also a student affairs practitioner, for a number of years and administrator in the United States, having worked at a small liberal arts institution, a midsize public liberal arts institution, and then serving on the faculty as a academic associate at the University of Georgia, starting a Doctoral Program in Educational Leadership, and then joining the University of Maryland as a Clinical Professor in 2016. And so my experience really is in graduate education, in student affairs, teaching on both the masters and doctoral level, primarily around topics related to social justice education, student development theory, and then also around qualitative research methodology, and then a little bit of assessment and evaluation in student affairs and kind of organizational development. And so, had an opportunity to teach that level of course work in those topical areas, but then also engaging in scholarship. And as I indicated at the opener, scholarship has evolved over the years based off of not only interest, but lived experiences. And so I would say kind of the body of work that I focus on is around inclusive campus environments for students across a variety of populations.
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And also engaging in exploring various methodologies, particularly under the realm of qualitative research. And what has kind of helped me to reach the intersection of today's conversation is really wanting to expand my knowledge around student affairs education beyond a western US-centered ideology, and really partnering with colleagues in Ghana, West Africa. And through that collaboration, having learned not only what practice looks like, but still in gaining greater understanding and curiosity around how to ensure that that practice is wholly informed by cultures and traditions from the Ghanaian culture in higher education, and how I can serve to support that effort and collaborate with colleagues there. So, my research interest today focuses directly on tertiary education in Ghana, but particularly around student affairs, as a practice, as a profession, and as a support mechanism to help students be successful in college. Much of that work, as I said, is drawn on the traditions and culture. And so it's really focused on decolonizing, our-- not only understanding of the work, but the practice, and then also the teaching. How do we encourage student affairs practitioners and administrators to go through graduate education using cultural and traditional knowledge as a means of or as a way forward, if you will, in knowledge creation and knowledge sustaining?
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Thank you so much for sharing that.
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And you know, I think actually, if you don't mind expanding a little bit before we sort of talk about your Fulbright and everything, because as we know, and I should share with listeners, we're in a really critical moment because you'll be soon departing for Ghana in a matter of days, would you mind sharing a little bit more about just like what student affairs is just as a practice and even as a discipline?
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Well, I appreciate the question. I'm often explaining it to my family. And before my grandmother passed away years ago, she would consistently asked me now what is it that you do because I've know that you need to go back to college, right? Every time I visit, you need to go back to college. And so you're right. Being a student affairs professional, is about being, you know, enveloped into college culture, how students are experiencing college, what do they need developmentally to be successful while they are matriculating through the curriculum? For that matter, what support mechanisms as well as what experiences do they need to engage in, that support their learning as they go through college? That's what student affairs really is about. How can we not only support their learning their development, but then what services can we provide as they are going through college? And student services or student affairs as a field is an American concept. We developed it, we made it up, we created the philosophy around it. We continue to undergird it with exceptional scholarship and innovative practice, that which is formal and also informal in practice. And so in the work that people do in colleges and universities around the world to support students may have some elements of what we call student affairs in the United States.
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But then it may have elements of various cultural traditions and/or political expectations, economic and or regional or national identity elements to it. And I would argue that all of that is a part of Student Affairs in our American context, but because we are so enveloped in it, we don't necessarily or rather are not able rather to identify some of those nuances.
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So I think we have to be careful when we partner and collaborate with our international partners so as not to impose our approaches or expectations in how we support students, what services we provide for students, and what we expect of them in their learning environment. Because cultural, culture matters and how people are taught to maintain that culture is a part of the practice and pedagogy really of Student Affairs. I think incumbent upon us as scholars, practitioners to really think about how are we infusing that which we understand about student affairs, but truly centering the knowledge of the partners that we have internationally, in what they're hoping student affairs or student services, or whatever there, however they are labeling it at their institution may look like for their students, and for their faculty, and also staff.
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I'll also name that Student Affairs is not a profession at this point in Ghana. For those that are seeking to have some professionalization around student affairs are student services in Ghana, how can we help to collectively develop that education and create essentially a pathway for those who are in college, or those who have an interest in wanting to support students to gain formal education around it, that, again is culturally centered?
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One thing that you bring up in particular, which is something I think a lot about just entering the space also as like, a white US man trained in US higher education, I think around that concept in academia of legitimacy. And this question of whether, if we identify student affairs as a US invention, how does it also not become a tool of exclusion? You know, thinking about working cross culturally, thinking about working across continents, thinking about also the US's power in the world, recognizing like whether or not folks may be identifying something as Student Affairs, that it actually is part of this larger circle or part of this larger connection.
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Absolutely.
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You know, and I'll also say, Jeremy, that I think it also gives us from the United States perspective, an opportunity to pause. Leigh Patel, I love her work, she speaks eloquently about the importance of pausing not only in educational research, particularly in the effort of decolonizing it, but I think also in practice. And there I think are many lessons that we can learn about how student affairs, to your point, can be reimagined for the populations that we serve, here in the United States through partnerships and collaborations that we have internationally.
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You know, just because you laid out the roadmap doesn't mean that it's the best way to go.
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And our colleagues, I think, around the globe are giving us or showing us right, some innovative ways to reach students, and to also partner with faculty on their campuses to help create truly transformational and sustainable change for students on their campuses.
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I would love to take this opportunity to learn more about even how you arrived at this partnership with institutions in Ghana, and you know, just how it kind of led into your Fulbright.
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That's a really helpful question. So, you know, I'll name that my interest in education in Ghana, really permeated and began with a colleague of mine, her name is Dr. Cynthia Dillard. She was at the University of Georgia when I was there in the faculty. She led, leads a study abroad program primarily in teacher education. And colleagues of mine, as well as students in the Student Affairs academic program, were interested in joining her for the study abroad program. And through not only a colleagueship but a friendship, she invited me to join. And it was during that first trip, that I was really intrigued, honestly, by educational pathways for people around the world, understanding that primary education is very much so rooted in national identity in Ghana, coming directly from the first president of Ghana, Dr. Kwame Nkrumah, and that that pathway from learning as a very young person all the way through tertiary education is connected to something far greater than just leaving the benchmarks and steps of completing an educational attainment. So I think that experience, not only because of exposure to education in another country, but I think connecting in many ways, personally, with the experience of being in Ghana, as someone who identifies with the African diaspora identify as Black as a woman who is Christian in the United States. A lot of those elements kind of intersected and those experiences, I think, created somewhat of a stronger personal interest in wanting to engage more with the country and engage more with colleagues.
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Over time making multiple returns even through a study abroad program that I co-teach with my colleague, Dr. Jillian A. Martin primarily for higher education professionals and graduate students and also faculty and being able to partner with an esteemed colleague and brother of mine, Dr. Michael Boakye-Yiadom who is the now General Director of the Institute for Educational Planning and Administration at the University of Cape Coast.
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Through his guidance really, of what does Student Affairs work look like in the Ghanaian context. He's been engaged in this outline of literature and research for a while. And you asked the question of how do you go about doing this work? Well, I think you start to build relationships and acknowledge that the work is already being done in places that you may have curiosity about and want to learn more about, and how do you tap in and connect with the people who are already doing that work? And what can you learn from them as you continue to grow those partnerships in doing so that kind of linkage, if you will of us working with him through our study abroad program has also developed in many ways, a number of projects that the students who participate in the study abroad program, and then also ourselves as teachers, and researchers are able to collaborate on moving forward. So what's been nice is that our relationship has led to a number of publications, and then also conference presentations, but also including graduate students in the process. I have a strong commitment to graduate education. And I think that there is great value in graduate students not only being able to be a part of the research process, sure, but also being a part of relationship-building, and what does it mean to be a colleague? And how do we think about individuals that we are teaching as colleagues in this journey versus solely as people who were, who we are teaching?
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And then that now leads us to the Fulbright. And how do we find time really, to immerse ourselves not only in culture, but in relationships, with practitioners, with faculty, with graduate students in a way that is not only meaningful and transformational for the work that we'll be doing? But really, again, going back to that narrative that I said earlier, personally, for me. How can I continue to develop these relationships with people that have a very strong commitment to supporting the education of others, but doing it in a way that I may not have had experience around? And so how can I learn from their culture?
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How can I learn from traditions and making sure that their experiences, their voices, their meaning-making is centered in how we go about doing the work there? And so the Fulbright is really focused on culturally conscious pedagogy and practice.
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And how can we harness really, that knowledge that is inherent in traditions of Ghanaian culture that people are using every day. They're using it in their services they provide for students, they're using it in supporting the development of students, they're using it in how they are supporting students learning in their outcomes. But they may not be able to label it as such, because it is inherent in how they do their work. And so in a participatory action research design, with graduate students, fellow faculty, and administrators in country, we will go to institutions around the nation and collect narratives of people who are doing the work, and specifically focusing on how are they centering, Ghanaian culture and tradition in their work. What is it that we need to learn, that we can ultimately incorporate into graduate education that all people who are engaged in this type of work in country are able to theorize about. That they are able to take apart and put back together but that it's done in context, using theory, using approaches that come outside of your culture that are very helpful, sure, but they may not speak to the nuances and the elements that are so important to that particular community.
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All of that being said, my hope is that through this work, we're not only able to understand more about what's happening in country, but we're also able to support the development of the graduate students who are participating in the work with us and in part what I would like to also engage in with the Fulbright is strengthening a relationship that is held between the Institute for Educational Planning and Administration with a local area senior high school. High school education in Ghana just recently became free, meaning students don't have to pay school fees to attend secondary education. And that has had a large impact not only on access of who was able to go to school, but then also now increased interest in tertiary education. I think that that is a wonderful opportunity, really, for higher education and secondary education, to create stronger bridges, and maintain those through programs that are offered through Student Affairs, and also through higher education. The Institute for Educational Planning and Administration, already partners with some senior high schools in the area, and I would like to be able to help to support that effort through engaging in direct community work of identifying a cohort of students that we could follow through the latter part of their senior high school experience in preparing them for going to college. But not just in going to college, but also preparing them around entrepreneurialship, so that they can engage in a skill building effort of business design, business development, and then also business sustainability. That business that they create not only helps to support themselves and their families, thatcan be additive to their community, but then also can serve as a form of continual support for them while they're going through college. And ideally, that when they finish their college education, whatever entrepreneurial engagement they developed in those years before they reached college, has flourished and has developed stronger, and that they themselves might be able to provide employment to other members of their community.
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I think the direction I'm curious to go to just because you brought up the term decolonial, a few times, I think it'd be really important just to kind of, like, sit with that term and what it can mean. Because obviously, you know, there's also many conversations about like, you know, what can decolonization actually be, right? Like, if we're not actually doing, you know, the, the physical work of, you know, reparations, returning land, but also thinking about, of course, how decolonization also may have to has to do with like, our thoughts, our pedagogy, our engagement, in particular, study abroad is a tradition that's been based out of colonialism, that study abroad has a history of being an extractive practice of going to different places, and communities taking that knowledge, but not necessarily focus on the building of sustainable relationship. And then also, I think what you talked about too, is even like, how we move towards the decolonial Student Affairs? To say all that, it's really to get to the question of just like, what for you does decolonization mean or represent like, both in theory, and in practice?
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That's a really helpful way of framing that. So my colleague, Dr.
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Jillian A. Martin, and I teach the study abroad program, we talk not only about decolonization, but we also talk about decentering whiteness. And I, in some regard, think that for people who are entering the sphere of decolonizing work, there needs to be something that people can hold on to. And I think decentering of whiteness is, in my opinion, a starting point. And it gives people I think, a way of making sense of the not only practices, but the ways in which we participate in learning in classrooms, and all the ways in which we come about knowing. I think that that gives them an entry point, if you will. And then if I can expand maybe and visualizes it somewhat as a spectrum, that then developing your understanding into decolonizing work is not only a recognition of decentering that which is whiteness, but understanding the implications of colonialism, understanding, as you've indicated, the power dynamics that come along with that, and understanding the continual harm that is caused by it, right? So and I don't mean harm in, you know, just, oh, well, there are some economic challenges. No, I mean, like, actual violence against bodies, against people's way of living. And those those impacts, I think, are ways in which as a person who was raised under colonialism, you really have to shed and you really have to come to terms with yourself.
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And so if I can see it somewhat as a developmental spectrum, that's what I think I would offer to people. I would also name that, for me, the way in which I engage with the term decolonization in the work that we do in Ghana is a centering of knowledge, a centering of the acquisition of that knowledge and a centering of what is true in that knowledge. And, that that centering is coming directly out of Ghanaian culture. So that through that centering, we have the tools to disrupt power dynamics that are rooted in economics, politics, and societal expectations that colonialism has placed over that particular community. The challenge that I think we all have is then what does the new look like? And there are colleagues that write to this idea of cultural hybridity, that it's not just about decolonizing, an idea or work, but it's also about recognizing that there is some level of colonality that that may come along with it. And in immediate regards, that colonality is still apparent in the decentering work. And so how can you kind of bridge together both that which is decentering and decolonizing, to disrupt maybe the norm? I think that's one way to look at it. I think others might say, you know, let's flip the table upside down and turn it on its head, right? So I think that's the area in which we still struggle as a broader society. And then, then what after we have unearthed, that which is harmful? And that which is oppressive? In that process, then what's next? How is land and place and ideology returned to those who have cultivated and created it before colonization came? In what ways are people both sacrificing in giving up an understanding of the world and of life that is embedded in our political and economic systems?
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And I think that in order for people to do that, it has to be done on a spectrum, I don't know that people will be able to truly enter into decolonizing work at phase one, and not had an opportunity to really process what does it mean to even decenter, a way of knowing, and that way of knowing being whiteness.
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One thing you shared that I really appreciate was like about the compensation was also like the returning of ideology. It just makes me think of how whiteness operates, really to suppress the flourishing the creativity, the art, you could say, of different forms of ideology, that colonization, white supremacy have worked to suppress. And one of the things I guess I'm really curious about through either your work in Fulbright, or also you share in the study abroad experience is just like what I guess engaging in this work has meant for you and for your students.
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That's a really great question. And having had an opportunity to write with graduate students who participated in the study abroad program, along with my colleague, Dr. Martin, we wrote to just that impact, or that question of what does it mean for them to engage in this work, and also think critically about their own practice and their own interest in and how do they essentially wrestle with the kind of back and forth or the pull between that which you have been socialized, and that which you are allowed learning and taking in? And you know, I will name that what I have learned both in the global classroom where we're teaching, both American and Ghanaian students at the same time about student affairs philosophy, also about the development of students is that there are a variety of cultural expectations that are just unspoken in in many ways for students to be successful in those spaces, we have to name those. And we have to give people an opportunity to both navigate them and renegotiate them. And that in that renegotiation, and acknowledgement that people are growing, and people are learning, and they're going beyond the spaces that they have had exposure to. And so the navigating, I think of it all, is recognizing that people have an interest in wanting to collaborate with people across the globe, they have an interest in cross cultural learning. But while you may have the interest, do you also have the willingness to remove and shed some of those assumptions, expectations, and again, kind of cultural idioms that we just don't name. And so we've learned that we have to articulate those. We've learned that people need spaces to process those repeatedly. And so there's quite a bit of reflection that we use not only in the study abroad class, but also in the global classroom.
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And as a part of even the work that I will do in the Fulbright, there is reflection that is inherent in work that you do in participatory action research, but is also going to be expected of the participants who are not engaged in the research team to engage in reflection as well.
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And I think even for me, if I can just take a personal moment.
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Although I identify as a part of the African diaspora, diaspora is vast. And there are so many communities and individuals that I have yet to come across in my living. And as I continue to do this work, my hope is that I will always remain open to that, which I don't know anything about. But that those that I'm remaining open with are also willing to receive what I bring as well. I'm looking forward to this Fulbright experience not solely around the research or solely around the teaching, but truly around connecting with people and learning with people, not from but learning with.
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Being able to maintain relationships that can truly have an impact on how I understand what it means to be Black in this world broadly. And then also maybe offer some contribution to their understanding of how even I understand what being Black means. I am, have great anticipation I'm excited about going. But I'm also a little nervous, and I am hopeful that I will be able to ease some of those nerves, and truly just remain confident in what I know I'm going to do, and that I am always open to learning while there. Yeah
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The next question I want to move into is actually around around just thinking about blackness and what and what that means on different levels. You know, how is your work in Ghana and you're approaching Fulbright just informed your relationship to studying and understanding of blackness?
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So, in my time at the University of Maryland, I've also had the pleasure of being the Founding Director of the Center for Diversity and Inclusion in higher education where Dr. Roger L. Worthington is the executive director. And the work of the center is not only centered not only focused on research and scholarship in the area of social justice and equity inclusion in the practice on college campuses, but really also in consulting with institutions around the nation regarding how are they doing equity inclusion work, and to what impact is that having on their campus community. And there are other elements that are a part of the the Center's work, and I encourage those who are interested to visit the website to learn more about it.
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But in that consultation realm, we've worked with institutions who are really grappling with, how can I engage in transformational change for our campus community, either through campus climate assessments. But beyond that, my community is calling for a reckoning. People who identify as Black in higher education are having incredibly challenging experiences, that is rooted in racism. If your campus climate is going to improve, there has to be an acknowledgement and naming of that, and in the bringing to bear, there also has to be resolution around that. And community and whether faculty, staff or students, that community of Black people and allies need to see actual change versus rhetoric and how that change is going to take place. I think what we are learning in higher education in the US is that not only through the outcry following George Floyd's murder, and Brianna Taylor's murder in the summer of last year, I think that that energy has always been present through the legacy of racism in this country. And that kind of reckoning as people like to call it of today is not so much a new concept for those that have been in the struggle and recognize that the ever present reality of racism and its implication, not only in the broader society, but truly in higher education.
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If we take that more globally We now understand that there are elements of anti-Blackness that are a part of all aspects of society across the world and comes directly back into Higher Education. We have to I think, begin to acknowledge, what are the implications of B in higher education? What does that look like, as far as policy goes, as far as decision making goes, as far as how communities are outlined, whether they be through purposeful separation?
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Or maybe there's something that is more strategic in how people are organized by organization development of those institutions? And I think once we start to focus in on what does black-- how is blackness represented in our higher education community, and how are people impacted through kind of relegation or the implications of colonization, which inherently has racism in it, then I think we can start to ask those critical questions about, well, what can we truly change in our institution that can be impactful, and that can be sustainable for those communities? I think the question that we ask, in our teaching, whether it's in the global classroom or in study abroad is, what am I learning, as a practitioner and a scholar?
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And how can I continue to disrupt that which I thought was the norm, whether you identify as Black or non-Black, there's always something that we can disrupt in how we think about the world. Being in places like Ghana, where the rich coast culture and history is not only rooted in Ghanaian culture, but really has a deep spread across the entire west coast, West Africa, right? Because how Ghana is divided today was created through colonization, the naming of even the country or the naming of countries that surround it. And so if we think about that entire Gold Coast as being a large community, that understanding of blackness is somewhat shared across that area. And how can we encourage people to tap into that, as they continue to grow and develop?
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Again, whether you identify as black or not, how can you tap into that rich culture and history and learn from it, and carry with you as you continue to go around the world?
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Before we kind of close out this episode, I just want to say, you know, first off how much I appreciate just getting to learn from you and talk with you about these different questions of your research and and the work you'll be doing. So two final questions, really, just to help us close out. Do you have any thoughts-- I know you're thinking like I'm leaving a plan in a few days, but you know, you have any dreams or just kind of imaginations around just like what the work will look like when you return from Ghana or things that, you know, you'd love to have happen? But of course, it may take some planning. But yeah, but sort of in your imagination mode. What does post-Fulbright life look like?
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Thank you, Jeremy. You're right. I am more concerned about getting on the plane in a few days. But if we can for just a moment think about ahead. Yes, I, you know, and in all honesty, I think the community effort of being able to identify a cohort of individuals that we can support from that senior high school to college level, I think that is a legacy that we can continue to grow upon, and maybe we might be able to support future cohorts going through a program similarly, that allows for us to think about ways in which people are growing both in national identity but then also how they're contributing to kind of the economic stability of their communities, and also the country. But then I you know, I also think about, as I indicated at the top of the conversation, my commitment to graduate education, and through what we learn in this project, my hope is that we are able to continue to support the graduate program that is in-country, quite possibly able to build out greater access to it. And so through the Association of African universities, there's a strong commitment to what does digital and virtual engagement look like across the continent, and how can we strengthen distance education through a virtual component? And so the question for me is, how can we provide greater access for people who want to engage in graduate education but not able to physically get to the institution that may have the program, and how can we do that in a way that maintains both quality and depth, and do that, again with not only, you know, Ghana in mind, but other African countries that want to explore graduate education for those in student affairs and higher education work.
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Is there anything that you, you want to make sure the audience takes away from this conversation, whether it's a question a reflection, something you just wish to share, as we close out this episode.
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So I think it's important to acknowledge and name, how valuable it is to partner with communities across the continent of Africa. Not only has been valuable professionally, but personally. And it's because of those relationships, it's because of those those friendship, it's because of a willingness to really put in the work and develop things that have sustainability. I think the piece that I would encourage listeners today to take away are just a few things. Engage in authentic relationship development, and think of ways in which your work can be sustainable, not only for yourself, but truly for the communities that you're serving.
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And then I would also add that there's a great wealth of knowledge that you bring to a circumstance or a situation, but there's also a great wealth of knowledge that you can gain. And then lastly, I would go back to a point that you made earlier, Jeremy, that there is great joy in doing work that really matters. There is great joy in doing work with people who have a shared commitment that you have. And in that, you build true friendships that are lasting in those moments where the work gets really hard, or you've run into some bureaucracies both on the national and international level, sd we have seen in recent years. It's those friendships that are sustaining, that remind you why you do the work that you know, send you a text of support. There's something about collaboration that I think we have often taken a very surface approach to, that I think if we embed kind of our engagement with one another in developing a true friendship, we can maintain that joy, and maintain that purpose. And understand that the work is beyond us -- it's bigger than us. And you are able, I think, to find ways to smile, and really appreciate what you're doing when you're doing it with others.
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Professor Moore, thank you so much for your time really appreciate having this conversation. It's really been just a wonderful moment for me just to engage with you in this way. So thank you.
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Thank you so much. I appreciate the time.
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And that's all for this episode of Fulbright Forward. Thank you so much for listening. For a list of resources mentioned today's episode, you can go the Fulbright Forward website hosted on our Buzzsprout page. Remember also that you can subscribe to Fulbright Forward through your favorite podcast app like Apple podcasts or Spotify, as well as follow the podcast on Instagram.
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Again, I'm Jeremy Gombin-Sperling Fulbright diversity inclusion liaison for programs in the Western Hemisphere. Be well, stay safe, and until next time,
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Welcome to another episode of Fulbright forward a diversity podcast. My name is Jeremy Gombin-Sperling, the Fulbright diversity and inclusion liaison for programs in the Western Hemisphere. On today's episode, we are shifting geographic location to Ghana in West Africa, and focusing on the work of current US Fulbright scholar to Ghana Professor Candace Moore. Professor Moore is the associate clinical professor in the Higher education, Student Affairs, International Education Policy program within the Department of Counseling, Higher Education and Special Education at the University of Maryland College Park. Her research interests include understanding Black and LGBTQ student identities, contingent faculty development in higher education, supporting student success at historically black colleges and universities or HBCUs, and exploring culturally conscious pedagogy and practices in higher education.
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The focus of today's episode revolves around Dr. Moore's Fulbright project in Ghana, which is entitled "Culturally
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Collaborating to Inform Ghanaian Higher Education COVID-19 Response. During the discussion with Professor Moore which was recorded only days before she hopped on the plane to start her Fulbright, we explore numerous topics including Dr. Moore's background and pathway to the Fulbright, an analysis of the field of student affairs, reimagining the function of international educational programming, understanding blackness in a global context, and ultimately, how she has conceptualized what decolonial practices mean for her work in Ghana.
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What is key and central to Professor Moore's theory and ethics is a personal, political, economic and social concern for the continual violence that colonialism inflicts on different bodies and ways of being in the world. This means for Professor Moore that colonialism is not something relegated to the past, but rather is an ongoing phenomenon where people and institutions including that of US higher education must continue to address there orreally our role and complicity in perpetuating the hierarchies, and unequal structures that colonial projects set into motion globally in places such as West Africa, one of the most critical and harmful of those projects being the perpetuation of white supremacy and whiteness.
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Professor Moore reminds us though, that this work is best viewed along a spectrum, where each of us will enter at a different point depending on who we are, the identities we carry, and our level of engagement with decolonizing methods and thinking. What is also key to this discussion is her attention to teaching and learning as a pathway of critical hope, that in adjusting our pedagogy towards one that celebrates self-reflection and vulnerability, and one also that we prioritize our resources to amplify the cultural knowledge and needs of our partners.
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decolonization can shift from abstract or aspirational towards becoming a real and embodied practice. Please enjoy this thought-provoking and compelling conversation with Professor Candace Moore.
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Professor Moore thank you so much for being part of this Fulbright Forward episode.
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Thank you so much for having me, Jeremy. It's great to be in your presence and your company. I consider you not only a colleague, but also a friend.
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And so this is a wonderful opportunity. Thank you.
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Usually when we start these episodes, the question we ask our, the folks we're interviewing is really just, you know, tell us more about who you are. So if you wouldn't mind sharing Professor Moore, just a little about your background, and just kind of you know, how you're coming into this space today?
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Sure, absolutely. Thank you. So, you know, I think it's important to not only acknowledge that the work I do, is completely informed by the lived experiences that I've had and are having with others. But then also, I think it's important to articulate that it has transitioned and moved throughout the years as I have grown as well. And so my background is I am not only a faculty member, but I was also a student affairs practitioner, for a number of years and administrator in the United States, having worked at a small liberal arts institution, a midsize public liberal arts institution, and then serving on the faculty as a academic associate at the University of Georgia, starting a Doctoral Program in Educational Leadership, and then joining the University of Maryland as a Clinical Professor in 2016. And so my experience really is in graduate education, in student affairs, teaching on both the masters and doctoral level, primarily around topics related to social justice education, student development theory, and then also around qualitative research methodology, and then a little bit of assessment and evaluation in student affairs and kind of organizational development. And so, had an opportunity to teach that level of course work in those topical areas, but then also engaging in scholarship. And as I indicated at the opener, scholarship has evolved over the years based off of not only interest, but lived experiences. And so I would say kind of the body of work that I focus on is around inclusive campus environments for students across a variety of populations.
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And also engaging in exploring various methodologies, particularly under the realm of qualitative research. And what has kind of helped me to reach the intersection of today's conversation is really wanting to expand my knowledge around student affairs education beyond a western US-centered ideology, and really partnering with colleagues in Ghana, West Africa. And through that collaboration, having learned not only what practice looks like, but still in gaining greater understanding and curiosity around how to ensure that that practice is wholly informed by cultures and traditions from the Ghanaian culture in higher education, and how I can serve to support that effort and collaborate with colleagues there. So, my research interest today focuses directly on tertiary education in Ghana, but particularly around student affairs, as a practice, as a profession, and as a support mechanism to help students be successful in college. Much of that work, as I said, is drawn on the traditions and culture. And so it's really focused on decolonizing, our-- not only understanding of the work, but the practice, and then also the teaching. How do we encourage student affairs practitioners and administrators to go through graduate education using cultural and traditional knowledge as a means of or as a way forward, if you will, in knowledge creation and knowledge sustaining?
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Thank you so much for sharing that.
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And you know, I think actually, if you don't mind expanding a little bit before we sort of talk about your Fulbright and everything, because as we know, and I should share with listeners, we're in a really critical moment because you'll be soon departing for Ghana in a matter of days, would you mind sharing a little bit more about just like what student affairs is just as a practice and even as a discipline?
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Well, I appreciate the question. I'm often explaining it to my family. And before my grandmother passed away years ago, she would consistently asked me now what is it that you do because I've know that you need to go back to college, right? Every time I visit, you need to go back to college. And so you're right. Being a student affairs professional, is about being, you know, enveloped into college culture, how students are experiencing college, what do they need developmentally to be successful while they are matriculating through the curriculum? For that matter, what support mechanisms as well as what experiences do they need to engage in, that support their learning as they go through college? That's what student affairs really is about. How can we not only support their learning their development, but then what services can we provide as they are going through college? And student services or student affairs as a field is an American concept. We developed it, we made it up, we created the philosophy around it. We continue to undergird it with exceptional scholarship and innovative practice, that which is formal and also informal in practice. And so in the work that people do in colleges and universities around the world to support students may have some elements of what we call student affairs in the United States.
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But then it may have elements of various cultural traditions and/or political expectations, economic and or regional or national identity elements to it. And I would argue that all of that is a part of Student Affairs in our American context, but because we are so enveloped in it, we don't necessarily or rather are not able rather to identify some of those nuances.
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So I think we have to be careful when we partner and collaborate with our international partners so as not to impose our approaches or expectations in how we support students, what services we provide for students, and what we expect of them in their learning environment. Because cultural, culture matters and how people are taught to maintain that culture is a part of the practice and pedagogy really of Student Affairs. I think incumbent upon us as scholars, practitioners to really think about how are we infusing that which we understand about student affairs, but truly centering the knowledge of the partners that we have internationally, in what they're hoping student affairs or student services, or whatever there, however they are labeling it at their institution may look like for their students, and for their faculty, and also staff.
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I'll also name that Student Affairs is not a profession at this point in Ghana. For those that are seeking to have some professionalization around student affairs are student services in Ghana, how can we help to collectively develop that education and create essentially a pathway for those who are in college, or those who have an interest in wanting to support students to gain formal education around it, that, again is culturally centered?
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One thing that you bring up in particular, which is something I think a lot about just entering the space also as like, a white US man trained in US higher education, I think around that concept in academia of legitimacy. And this question of whether, if we identify student affairs as a US invention, how does it also not become a tool of exclusion? You know, thinking about working cross culturally, thinking about working across continents, thinking about also the US's power in the world, recognizing like whether or not folks may be identifying something as Student Affairs, that it actually is part of this larger circle or part of this larger connection.
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Absolutely.
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You know, and I'll also say, Jeremy, that I think it also gives us from the United States perspective, an opportunity to pause. Leigh Patel, I love her work, she speaks eloquently about the importance of pausing not only in educational research, particularly in the effort of decolonizing it, but I think also in practice. And there I think are many lessons that we can learn about how student affairs, to your point, can be reimagined for the populations that we serve, here in the United States through partnerships and collaborations that we have internationally.
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You know, just because you laid out the roadmap doesn't mean that it's the best way to go.
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And our colleagues, I think, around the globe are giving us or showing us right, some innovative ways to reach students, and to also partner with faculty on their campuses to help create truly transformational and sustainable change for students on their campuses.
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I would love to take this opportunity to learn more about even how you arrived at this partnership with institutions in Ghana, and you know, just how it kind of led into your Fulbright.
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That's a really helpful question. So, you know, I'll name that my interest in education in Ghana, really permeated and began with a colleague of mine, her name is Dr. Cynthia Dillard. She was at the University of Georgia when I was there in the faculty. She led, leads a study abroad program primarily in teacher education. And colleagues of mine, as well as students in the Student Affairs academic program, were interested in joining her for the study abroad program. And through not only a colleagueship but a friendship, she invited me to join. And it was during that first trip, that I was really intrigued, honestly, by educational pathways for people around the world, understanding that primary education is very much so rooted in national identity in Ghana, coming directly from the first president of Ghana, Dr. Kwame Nkrumah, and that that pathway from learning as a very young person all the way through tertiary education is connected to something far greater than just leaving the benchmarks and steps of completing an educational attainment. So I think that experience, not only because of exposure to education in another country, but I think connecting in many ways, personally, with the experience of being in Ghana, as someone who identifies with the African diaspora identify as Black as a woman who is Christian in the United States. A lot of those elements kind of intersected and those experiences, I think, created somewhat of a stronger personal interest in wanting to engage more with the country and engage more with colleagues.
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Over time making multiple returns even through a study abroad program that I co-teach with my colleague, Dr. Jillian A. Martin primarily for higher education professionals and graduate students and also faculty and being able to partner with an esteemed colleague and brother of mine, Dr. Michael Boakye-Yiadom who is the now General Director of the Institute for Educational Planning and Administration at the University of Cape Coast.
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Through his guidance really, of what does Student Affairs work look like in the Ghanaian context. He's been engaged in this outline of literature and research for a while. And you asked the question of how do you go about doing this work? Well, I think you start to build relationships and acknowledge that the work is already being done in places that you may have curiosity about and want to learn more about, and how do you tap in and connect with the people who are already doing that work? And what can you learn from them as you continue to grow those partnerships in doing so that kind of linkage, if you will of us working with him through our study abroad program has also developed in many ways, a number of projects that the students who participate in the study abroad program, and then also ourselves as teachers, and researchers are able to collaborate on moving forward. So what's been nice is that our relationship has led to a number of publications, and then also conference presentations, but also including graduate students in the process. I have a strong commitment to graduate education. And I think that there is great value in graduate students not only being able to be a part of the research process, sure, but also being a part of relationship-building, and what does it mean to be a colleague? And how do we think about individuals that we are teaching as colleagues in this journey versus solely as people who were, who we are teaching?
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And then that now leads us to the Fulbright. And how do we find time really, to immerse ourselves not only in culture, but in relationships, with practitioners, with faculty, with graduate students in a way that is not only meaningful and transformational for the work that we'll be doing? But really, again, going back to that narrative that I said earlier, personally, for me. How can I continue to develop these relationships with people that have a very strong commitment to supporting the education of others, but doing it in a way that I may not have had experience around? And so how can I learn from their culture?
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How can I learn from traditions and making sure that their experiences, their voices, their meaning-making is centered in how we go about doing the work there? And so the Fulbright is really focused on culturally conscious pedagogy and practice.
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And how can we harness really, that knowledge that is inherent in traditions of Ghanaian culture that people are using every day. They're using it in their services they provide for students, they're using it in supporting the development of students, they're using it in how they are supporting students learning in their outcomes. But they may not be able to label it as such, because it is inherent in how they do their work. And so in a participatory action research design, with graduate students, fellow faculty, and administrators in country, we will go to institutions around the nation and collect narratives of people who are doing the work, and specifically focusing on how are they centering, Ghanaian culture and tradition in their work. What is it that we need to learn, that we can ultimately incorporate into graduate education that all people who are engaged in this type of work in country are able to theorize about. That they are able to take apart and put back together but that it's done in context, using theory, using approaches that come outside of your culture that are very helpful, sure, but they may not speak to the nuances and the elements that are so important to that particular community.
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All of that being said, my hope is that through this work, we're not only able to understand more about what's happening in country, but we're also able to support the development of the graduate students who are participating in the work with us and in part what I would like to also engage in with the Fulbright is strengthening a relationship that is held between the Institute for Educational Planning and Administration with a local area senior high school. High school education in Ghana just recently became free, meaning students don't have to pay school fees to attend secondary education. And that has had a large impact not only on access of who was able to go to school, but then also now increased interest in tertiary education. I think that that is a wonderful opportunity, really, for higher education and secondary education, to create stronger bridges, and maintain those through programs that are offered through Student Affairs, and also through higher education. The Institute for Educational Planning and Administration, already partners with some senior high schools in the area, and I would like to be able to help to support that effort through engaging in direct community work of identifying a cohort of students that we could follow through the latter part of their senior high school experience in preparing them for going to college. But not just in going to college, but also preparing them around entrepreneurialship, so that they can engage in a skill building effort of business design, business development, and then also business sustainability. That business that they create not only helps to support themselves and their families, thatcan be additive to their community, but then also can serve as a form of continual support for them while they're going through college. And ideally, that when they finish their college education, whatever entrepreneurial engagement they developed in those years before they reached college, has flourished and has developed stronger, and that they themselves might be able to provide employment to other members of their community.
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I think the direction I'm curious to go to just because you brought up the term decolonial, a few times, I think it'd be really important just to kind of, like, sit with that term and what it can mean. Because obviously, you know, there's also many conversations about like, you know, what can decolonization actually be, right? Like, if we're not actually doing, you know, the, the physical work of, you know, reparations, returning land, but also thinking about, of course, how decolonization also may have to has to do with like, our thoughts, our pedagogy, our engagement, in particular, study abroad is a tradition that's been based out of colonialism, that study abroad has a history of being an extractive practice of going to different places, and communities taking that knowledge, but not necessarily focus on the building of sustainable relationship. And then also, I think what you talked about too, is even like, how we move towards the decolonial Student Affairs? To say all that, it's really to get to the question of just like, what for you does decolonization mean or represent like, both in theory, and in practice?
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That's a really helpful way of framing that. So my colleague, Dr.
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Jillian A. Martin, and I teach the study abroad program, we talk not only about decolonization, but we also talk about decentering whiteness. And I, in some regard, think that for people who are entering the sphere of decolonizing work, there needs to be something that people can hold on to. And I think decentering of whiteness is, in my opinion, a starting point. And it gives people I think, a way of making sense of the not only practices, but the ways in which we participate in learning in classrooms, and all the ways in which we come about knowing. I think that that gives them an entry point, if you will. And then if I can expand maybe and visualizes it somewhat as a spectrum, that then developing your understanding into decolonizing work is not only a recognition of decentering that which is whiteness, but understanding the implications of colonialism, understanding, as you've indicated, the power dynamics that come along with that, and understanding the continual harm that is caused by it, right? So and I don't mean harm in, you know, just, oh, well, there are some economic challenges. No, I mean, like, actual violence against bodies, against people's way of living. And those those impacts, I think, are ways in which as a person who was raised under colonialism, you really have to shed and you really have to come to terms with yourself.
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And so if I can see it somewhat as a developmental spectrum, that's what I think I would offer to people. I would also name that, for me, the way in which I engage with the term decolonization in the work that we do in Ghana is a centering of knowledge, a centering of the acquisition of that knowledge and a centering of what is true in that knowledge. And, that that centering is coming directly out of Ghanaian culture. So that through that centering, we have the tools to disrupt power dynamics that are rooted in economics, politics, and societal expectations that colonialism has placed over that particular community. The challenge that I think we all have is then what does the new look like? And there are colleagues that write to this idea of cultural hybridity, that it's not just about decolonizing, an idea or work, but it's also about recognizing that there is some level of colonality that that may come along with it. And in immediate regards, that colonality is still apparent in the decentering work. And so how can you kind of bridge together both that which is decentering and decolonizing, to disrupt maybe the norm? I think that's one way to look at it. I think others might say, you know, let's flip the table upside down and turn it on its head, right? So I think that's the area in which we still struggle as a broader society. And then, then what after we have unearthed, that which is harmful? And that which is oppressive? In that process, then what's next? How is land and place and ideology returned to those who have cultivated and created it before colonization came? In what ways are people both sacrificing in giving up an understanding of the world and of life that is embedded in our political and economic systems?
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And I think that in order for people to do that, it has to be done on a spectrum, I don't know that people will be able to truly enter into decolonizing work at phase one, and not had an opportunity to really process what does it mean to even decenter, a way of knowing, and that way of knowing being whiteness.
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One thing you shared that I really appreciate was like about the compensation was also like the returning of ideology. It just makes me think of how whiteness operates, really to suppress the flourishing the creativity, the art, you could say, of different forms of ideology, that colonization, white supremacy have worked to suppress. And one of the things I guess I'm really curious about through either your work in Fulbright, or also you share in the study abroad experience is just like what I guess engaging in this work has meant for you and for your students.
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That's a really great question. And having had an opportunity to write with graduate students who participated in the study abroad program, along with my colleague, Dr. Martin, we wrote to just that impact, or that question of what does it mean for them to engage in this work, and also think critically about their own practice and their own interest in and how do they essentially wrestle with the kind of back and forth or the pull between that which you have been socialized, and that which you are allowed learning and taking in? And you know, I will name that what I have learned both in the global classroom where we're teaching, both American and Ghanaian students at the same time about student affairs philosophy, also about the development of students is that there are a variety of cultural expectations that are just unspoken in in many ways for students to be successful in those spaces, we have to name those. And we have to give people an opportunity to both navigate them and renegotiate them. And that in that renegotiation, and acknowledgement that people are growing, and people are learning, and they're going beyond the spaces that they have had exposure to. And so the navigating, I think of it all, is recognizing that people have an interest in wanting to collaborate with people across the globe, they have an interest in cross cultural learning. But while you may have the interest, do you also have the willingness to remove and shed some of those assumptions, expectations, and again, kind of cultural idioms that we just don't name. And so we've learned that we have to articulate those. We've learned that people need spaces to process those repeatedly. And so there's quite a bit of reflection that we use not only in the study abroad class, but also in the global classroom.
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And as a part of even the work that I will do in the Fulbright, there is reflection that is inherent in work that you do in participatory action research, but is also going to be expected of the participants who are not engaged in the research team to engage in reflection as well.
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And I think even for me, if I can just take a personal moment.
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Although I identify as a part of the African diaspora, diaspora is vast. And there are so many communities and individuals that I have yet to come across in my living. And as I continue to do this work, my hope is that I will always remain open to that, which I don't know anything about. But that those that I'm remaining open with are also willing to receive what I bring as well. I'm looking forward to this Fulbright experience not solely around the research or solely around the teaching, but truly around connecting with people and learning with people, not from but learning with.
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Being able to maintain relationships that can truly have an impact on how I understand what it means to be Black in this world broadly. And then also maybe offer some contribution to their understanding of how even I understand what being Black means. I am, have great anticipation I'm excited about going. But I'm also a little nervous, and I am hopeful that I will be able to ease some of those nerves, and truly just remain confident in what I know I'm going to do, and that I am always open to learning while there. Yeah
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The next question I want to move into is actually around around just thinking about blackness and what and what that means on different levels. You know, how is your work in Ghana and you're approaching Fulbright just informed your relationship to studying and understanding of blackness?
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So, in my time at the University of Maryland, I've also had the pleasure of being the Founding Director of the Center for Diversity and Inclusion in higher education where Dr. Roger L. Worthington is the executive director. And the work of the center is not only centered not only focused on research and scholarship in the area of social justice and equity inclusion in the practice on college campuses, but really also in consulting with institutions around the nation regarding how are they doing equity inclusion work, and to what impact is that having on their campus community. And there are other elements that are a part of the the Center's work, and I encourage those who are interested to visit the website to learn more about it.
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But in that consultation realm, we've worked with institutions who are really grappling with, how can I engage in transformational change for our campus community, either through campus climate assessments. But beyond that, my community is calling for a reckoning. People who identify as Black in higher education are having incredibly challenging experiences, that is rooted in racism. If your campus climate is going to improve, there has to be an acknowledgement and naming of that, and in the bringing to bear, there also has to be resolution around that. And community and whether faculty, staff or students, that community of Black people and allies need to see actual change versus rhetoric and how that change is going to take place. I think what we are learning in higher education in the US is that not only through the outcry following George Floyd's murder, and Brianna Taylor's murder in the summer of last year, I think that that energy has always been present through the legacy of racism in this country. And that kind of reckoning as people like to call it of today is not so much a new concept for those that have been in the struggle and recognize that the ever present reality of racism and its implication, not only in the broader society, but truly in higher education.
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If we take that more globally We now understand that there are elements of anti-Blackness that are a part of all aspects of society across the world and comes directly back into Higher Education. We have to I think, begin to acknowledge, what are the implications of B in higher education? What does that look like, as far as policy goes, as far as decision making goes, as far as how communities are outlined, whether they be through purposeful separation?
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Or maybe there's something that is more strategic in how people are organized by organization development of those institutions? And I think once we start to focus in on what does black-- how is blackness represented in our higher education community, and how are people impacted through kind of relegation or the implications of colonization, which inherently has racism in it, then I think we can start to ask those critical questions about, well, what can we truly change in our institution that can be impactful, and that can be sustainable for those communities? I think the question that we ask, in our teaching, whether it's in the global classroom or in study abroad is, what am I learning, as a practitioner and a scholar?
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And how can I continue to disrupt that which I thought was the norm, whether you identify as Black or non-Black, there's always something that we can disrupt in how we think about the world. Being in places like Ghana, where the rich coast culture and history is not only rooted in Ghanaian culture, but really has a deep spread across the entire west coast, West Africa, right? Because how Ghana is divided today was created through colonization, the naming of even the country or the naming of countries that surround it. And so if we think about that entire Gold Coast as being a large community, that understanding of blackness is somewhat shared across that area. And how can we encourage people to tap into that, as they continue to grow and develop?
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Again, whether you identify as black or not, how can you tap into that rich culture and history and learn from it, and carry with you as you continue to go around the world?
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Before we kind of close out this episode, I just want to say, you know, first off how much I appreciate just getting to learn from you and talk with you about these different questions of your research and and the work you'll be doing. So two final questions, really, just to help us close out. Do you have any thoughts-- I know you're thinking like I'm leaving a plan in a few days, but you know, you have any dreams or just kind of imaginations around just like what the work will look like when you return from Ghana or things that, you know, you'd love to have happen? But of course, it may take some planning. But yeah, but sort of in your imagination mode. What does post-Fulbright life look like?
00:38:20.920 --> 00:40:13.059
Thank you, Jeremy. You're right. I am more concerned about getting on the plane in a few days. But if we can for just a moment think about ahead. Yes, I, you know, and in all honesty, I think the community effort of being able to identify a cohort of individuals that we can support from that senior high school to college level, I think that is a legacy that we can continue to grow upon, and maybe we might be able to support future cohorts going through a program similarly, that allows for us to think about ways in which people are growing both in national identity but then also how they're contributing to kind of the economic stability of their communities, and also the country. But then I you know, I also think about, as I indicated at the top of the conversation, my commitment to graduate education, and through what we learn in this project, my hope is that we are able to continue to support the graduate program that is in-country, quite possibly able to build out greater access to it. And so through the Association of African universities, there's a strong commitment to what does digital and virtual engagement look like across the continent, and how can we strengthen distance education through a virtual component? And so the question for me is, how can we provide greater access for people who want to engage in graduate education but not able to physically get to the institution that may have the program, and how can we do that in a way that maintains both quality and depth, and do that, again with not only, you know, Ghana in mind, but other African countries that want to explore graduate education for those in student affairs and higher education work.
00:40:13.530 --> 00:40:21.630
Is there anything that you, you want to make sure the audience takes away from this conversation, whether it's a question a reflection, something you just wish to share, as we close out this episode.
00:40:22.170 --> 00:41:11.909
So I think it's important to acknowledge and name, how valuable it is to partner with communities across the continent of Africa. Not only has been valuable professionally, but personally. And it's because of those relationships, it's because of those those friendship, it's because of a willingness to really put in the work and develop things that have sustainability. I think the piece that I would encourage listeners today to take away are just a few things. Engage in authentic relationship development, and think of ways in which your work can be sustainable, not only for yourself, but truly for the communities that you're serving.
00:41:06.900 --> 00:42:33.119
And then I would also add that there's a great wealth of knowledge that you bring to a circumstance or a situation, but there's also a great wealth of knowledge that you can gain. And then lastly, I would go back to a point that you made earlier, Jeremy, that there is great joy in doing work that really matters. There is great joy in doing work with people who have a shared commitment that you have. And in that, you build true friendships that are lasting in those moments where the work gets really hard, or you've run into some bureaucracies both on the national and international level, sd we have seen in recent years. It's those friendships that are sustaining, that remind you why you do the work that you know, send you a text of support. There's something about collaboration that I think we have often taken a very surface approach to, that I think if we embed kind of our engagement with one another in developing a true friendship, we can maintain that joy, and maintain that purpose. And understand that the work is beyond us -- it's bigger than us. And you are able, I think, to find ways to smile, and really appreciate what you're doing when you're doing it with others.
00:42:33.929 --> 00:42:41.909
Professor Moore, thank you so much for your time really appreciate having this conversation. It's really been just a wonderful moment for me just to engage with you in this way. So thank you.
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:44.639
Thank you so much. I appreciate the time.
00:42:46.320 --> 00:43:07.170
And that's all for this episode of Fulbright Forward. Thank you so much for listening. For a list of resources mentioned today's episode, you can go the Fulbright Forward website hosted on our Buzzsprout page. Remember also that you can subscribe to Fulbright Forward through your favorite podcast app like Apple podcasts or Spotify, as well as follow the podcast on Instagram.
00:43:03.449 --> 00:43:14.159
Again, I'm Jeremy Gombin-Sperling Fulbright diversity inclusion liaison for programs in the Western Hemisphere. Be well, stay safe, and until next time,
