Tanaya: Hello, friends, truth seekers, skeptics, and the quietly curious. Welcome to a very special episode of the Evolving Traditions podcast where we examine how the wisdom and practices that we inherit meet the challenges, contradictions, and changes of modern life. And today we're turning the lens inward. And taking an up-close and personal look at the evolving tradition of the performing arts and the virtue of temperance through the life and career of someone that I know very, very well, my co-host, my collaborator, my dearly beloved, and who some may refer to in the business as the triple threat actor, comedian, and former. Degrade radio personality, Matt Diktinsky. Hello Matt.
Matt: Hello, Tanaya. how are you? We're actually
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: only only there's only that wall is the only thing separating us at the moment. But we decided we wanted to test our our metal with the technology because you know, it's not our strong suit, is it?
Tanaya: No, it's not. God help us. Yes, technology is definitely not our strong suit, but this is going to be fun. Let's see how we go.
Matt: Okay.
Tanaya: So, for those who are not familiar, this podcast explores humanity's traditions, how they are passed down, how they shift, and how they sometimes fall apart under the weight of the modern world. But evolving traditions is also about people, the ones who carry those traditions, reshape them, and occasionally trip over them in public. So today, my love, this episode.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Tanaya: is all about you, Matt Diktinski.
Matt: Wow, it should be quite a short episode, I would imagine.
Tanaya: So for anyone in Australia who enjoys comedy, theatre film, radio, or the occasional delightfully trashy piece of Aussie TV and somehow doesn't know you, Matt, well, they've been missing out, quite frankly.
Matt: Have they? I hope so. A little bit.
Tanaya: So today we're stepping behind the resume of the man himself, And we'll explore, Matt, how you became the performer that you are, how the industry has shifted around you over the years, and where you think the performing arts may be headed next. And if you're open to it, I'd also love to chat about the obstacles that you've encountered along the way and maybe the temperance, the resilience, and perhaps. The occasional irreverence that has helped you navigate those challenges.
Matt: Well, I mean certainly resilience is a big one. That's for sure. It's unless you're lucky enough to enter the stratosphere of of super fame, being a working actor takes quite a bit of resilience, I would say.
Tanaya: It sure does. But first, let's begin where we're always going to begin, and that's with our opening question. And that's the very first tradition that we inherit as young children. And we want to ask every guest this. And the question is: what's the first thing that you remember your parents teaching you about the world when you were young?
Matt: Well, we we talked about this in the marriage podcast. so I'll I'll I'll repeat myself. I I I remember my mother was very keen particularly on making my brother and I be confident to speak to to other people. if we asked a question like what's the time or or yeah. we're if we had a question that could be answered by another individual, she would point us towards that that person and say, Go and ask that man the time, or you go up to the counter and ask for some milk or bread. And and I think it gave us the confidence to to talk to people. And if I do have a a eeny weenie superpower, it is that I do feel comfortable talking to pretty much anyone. So if she gave me that I'm very grateful for that because that stood me in good stead, certainly as a broadcaster, in my eight years on the radio, but also I guess in my comedy, you you kinda need to feel comfortable talking to strangers if you're gonna do stand up. So if that's the tradition she passed on to me, I'm very grateful. As you well know, my parents also passed on perhaps some less helpful traditions that I've struggled with for the most of my life, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
Tanaya: And I did have the pleasure of meeting your dear old mum Judy, bless her, while she was alive. she was indeed a very larger than life character. I didn't get to meet your dad. but Judy struck me as a real entertainer, and I can see how that was passed on down the line. And so I'm wondering: do you think the performer in you was already there as a child, or do you think it was something that you can? instructed gradually over time. Did you inherit this from your dear old mum?
Matt: I think I inherited it from all of the family, particularly mum's side, particularly mum's side. My my grandparents, Harold and Ruth, beautiful people, from the north of England, from Blackpool, they were entertainers. my grandfather would appear with his false teeth out and with Nana's underwear on his head. Well And you know, probably one of the most annoying parts of my personality I would suggest to live with is that I always look for the joke. I probably hijack serious moments trying to find the laugh in it, which is not always helpful. I recognise that, but that was a part of our life. And maybe it comes from, you know, working class people who don't have a lot. Really all you can do is entertain each other or go downhill. And I think that was definitely inherited from my mum's side of the family. But my dad, Miroslav, who was a a cool cat, He was very funny in his own way. And so between the two of them, there was a lot of laughter, a lot of drama, more drama than I needed at times, but there was a lot of people liked telling good jokes and and I certainly inherited that buzz, or maybe some may say it's n needy to to be liked or to to be the accolade for performance. But I got that from them.
Tanaya: Well, it's a good thing. and so for the people who don't know you, Matt, you do indeed have your own Wikipedia page, which is how you know that a person has officially become notable or in fact on the on the contrary that perhaps someone has had a a wee too much time on their hands one afternoon. But
Matt: Not me.
Tanaya: But I'm wondering how does one get their own Wikipedia page? Is there like a a company out there who does that?
Matt: there might be. I didn't do this Wikipedia page. I've heard through the grapevine that maybe one of the distant cousins may have set it up, but I don't know a hundred percent. it definitely wasn't me. I I can't remember the last time I looked at it. I hope it's got nice things to say about me.
Tanaya: Well, according to the internet, according to that wiki page, Matthew Dictinsky is an Australian actor and comedian who graduated from the National Institute of Dramatic Art, NIDA, in nineteen ninety-two. And
Matt: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Tanaya: somewhere along the way, whoever did create that wiki page managed to spell Dictinsky incorrectly.
Matt: Well, they wouldn't be the first one. But you don't expect that from your family. it's not an easy name. D Y K T Y N S K I. I possibly should have thought about a different name for Showbiz, but it is a great score in Scrabble.
Tanaya: It certainly is. Okay, so across TV, you've had lead roles in Shockjock, Raw FM. You've appeared in a long list of Australian favourites The Man from Snowy River, Stingers, Blue Healers, Water Rats, Halifax, All Saints, The Secret Life of Us, House Husbands. I didn't actually know about that one, House Husbands.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Off Spring. your film work includes Love and Other Catastrophes, Awesome Film, Japanese Stories. With Tony Collette, Takeaway, and Will, where you played the lead role. And more recently, of course, you appeared in Reckless on SBS alongside Tasma Walton and Hunter
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Paige Lockard. And I believe that may still even be up on SBS On Demand?
Matt: I think you can still stream it on demand for sure. It's a great show. It's only four episodes. It's
Tanaya: It's it is
Matt: brilliant.
Tanaya: it's brilliant. so in Reckless you played Desmond, the mafia boss, which if I'm honest felt a little bit too convincing for my liking.
Matt: I'm a softie at heart, you know that. But actors are great actors love playing criminals because it's there that we can be the tough guy that we can never actually be in real life.
Tanaya: Exactly. But also Matt, you as a stand-up comic, you've done a lot of touring in your time. You've toured Australia, the UK, Europe, you spent several years living in London, you worked on the notoriously tough British comedy circuit, you performed at the Edinburgh Festival a few times, the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, London Soho Theatre, and the list goes on. And probably most people here in WA know you for your eight-year stint on Brecki Radio, where you co-hosted Perth's Mix 94.5 breakfast show alongside Claire Z and Kimber first, and then of course later Pete and Kimber.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Tanaya: And you finished that role in 2023? And then because none of that was enough, you then co-wrote a musical, funeral the musical, with your wife.
Matt: Yes, we did. We did do that.
Tanaya: And so what happened to the musical, Matt?
Matt: I don't know. I'm just waiting for Gina or Twiggy or someone with a million
Tanaya: Jane calls me to start.
Matt: d dollars to call me up and tell me to put it on.
Tanaya: Please, Janet Holmes Accord, Twiggy Forest, if
Matt: Or Janet Holmes are court, yes, yeah.
Tanaya: you're listening, do give Matt a call. But now there is one very important credit that I saved for last because it does feel especially relevant today, and that's because just a couple of hours ago you actually stepped off the stage at the Heath Ledger Theatre here in Perth in what was the final performance of the diary of Anne Frank.
Matt: Yes, absolutely. in fact I think I still have some eye makeup on, which you know, I don't normally
Tanaya: I think you do.
Matt: wait yeah, i each to their own, of course. yeah, we finished it after a a long journey with that play. last year, April twenty twenty five, we did the first Perth season. Then we did a a Melbourne Sydney tour and we've come back to do a a return season here in Perth, which finished today and it was a a beautiful experience. a difficult play, very heavy, a heavy energy, that's for sure. but a an important story and I think one that was really well told.
Tanaya: You must be exhausted having done you only did one today but you did two yesterday and you've been going all week really.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. Look, there there's always that come down at the end of a show which is sort of a mixture of elation and complete and utter tiredness, because even if one's feeling a little bit sick or, you know, a cold or whatnot, there's something about performing that you seem to get to the end most of the time and then you fall in a heap. I haven't fallen in a heap yet. I've just cooked dinner actually for us. but I'm sure that falling in a heap is not too far away.
Tanaya: One of the actors, one of the cast members, God bless her, was in the hospital the other night and
Matt: Yes.
Tanaya: still went on and did the show the next day.
Matt: The show must go on. That's actors for you. They are very resilient people and they are committed to their craft. just as a precaution, she went to hospital. She's fine.
Tanaya: thank goodness for that. Well, you
Matt: Mm-mm.
Tanaya: you played Herman Van Pals, a business associate
Matt: Yes.
Tanaya: of Otto Frank Anne's father, and he was often referred to as Mr. Van Dahn in Anne's diary. And I have to say, you really did embrace the Stanislavsky method in this role, Matt. He went full pelt into the method acting. And I have to say, it's been truly wonderful residing with Mr. Van Daan these past few weeks.
Matt: He's a bit
Tanaya: I felt like
Matt: of a grump.
Tanaya: he
Matt: Bit of a grump.
Tanaya: is a bit of a grump. but look on on a serious note because obviously it is a very serious story you got to play the role of Hermann van Paul Pals.
Matt: Mm, mm.
Tanaya: Alongside an extraordinary cast. And the production was put on by Drew Anthony, who has a pretty impressive portfolio himself. And it was the second time that I'd seen you in this role when I saw it the other day. And I have to say, it did land very differently for me this time around.
Matt: Did it. In what way?
Tanaya: well the first time I saw it, which was last year was it was it April?
Matt: Twenty twenty five, April, yeah.
Tanaya: April. So the first time I saw it, I found myself watching the characters more, the dynamics, the individual performances. But this time the story really did hit home for me. And I think the weight of the story, the humanity of the story, the smaller details. I I noticed subtle nuances that I'd I'd missed before, and I found myself already tearing up in the opening scene, and and of course, again in the end. Scene which just punches you right in the heart.
Matt: Hm.
Tanaya: So what an incredible cast, including your fine self. And I'd love to ask you how has it been working on this production and what has it asked of you as a performer? Because we all know that it's it's not an easy story to sink your teeth into.
Matt: No. I think everyone feels like they know the story of Anne Frank, the girl who with her family hid in an attic, a loft, for two years, while the Nazis occupied Amsterdam where she lived. And of course were rounding up Jewish people and they managed to evade that for some time, as I said, two years, but they were eventually caught. But what I loved about the play was that whilst we knew that that horror was going on, the Holocaust, the Second World War, that story's been told a l a lot and I'm sure it will continue to be. But what I found fascinating about the play was that its humanity was that of just eight people stuck in a, let's say, a room, a large room, for for two years and what that does to people, how that affects their psychology, their their particular lines in the sand. their patience. My character is clearly not happy to well, none of them are happy to be there, but finding it very difficult to be in there with with a a young girl, Anne, who's very vivacious and talkative, and it i it drives him insane and he doesn't behave particularly well. But the play I think doesn't judge the characters for that, nor should it, because who knows how any of us would react in that situation. And doing the show, I think, for all of us, particularly Chloe Jean, Vincent who played and Frank beauti beautifully.
Tanaya: she was amazing. My gosh, she really immersed herself in that role.
Matt: and I think for all of us, the names were changed actually by Otto Frank, who was the only survivor of the families that were in the in the loft in the attic. And so he changed them to or asked the writers to change the names from the from the actual family names. but I think we all felt a sense of responsibility, as I guess anyone would, any actor doing a biopic. you know, Bahamian Rhapsody or or Rocket Man or whatnot. You know, when you're playing a real person you want to deliver a whole person on the stage with all of their flaws and hopefully some joyous bits as well.
Tanaya: Yes, well, I can't really speak for Herman because he didn't really bring a lot of joy to the stage, but absolutely Anne you know amid those circumstances she was buoyant through the whole thing.
Matt: But I think that's I mean, the fact that you mentioned that about my character, I can imagine another version of a play like that where all of the characters are saintly because they're they're the victims of what's going on in this terrible time in our history. But but actually the writers didn't do that. they made these characters flawed and you realise in the play that my character is furious and Because they had a chance to get out and they didn't take it. for whatever reason. And again, you put yourself in that situation. Perhaps you you you see what's going on and you think, it can't get any worse. Things will get better, or or you've got investments that you don't want to leave. All sorts of pressures that that eventually led to being stuck in that place. And so he isn't a likable character, but I think There there's there's still a human I hope so anyway, in the way I played it, that there's there's still a human being there that that is doing his best despite the fact that he's finding it very difficult and is probably, you know, in today's language we'd probably say he was having a a a breakdown. You know.
Tanaya: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so The Diary Van Frank aside, because it's over and out as of today.
Matt: Hmm.
Tanaya: back to your very eclectic credits, and of course, I only have skimmed across the surface of what you've done. There are many things I've missed out, including your cop role as Detective Moffat in Heaven's Burning with Russell Crowe.
Matt: God. Blink and you miss it. Believe me. Blink and you miss it.
Tanaya: I I only mentioned that because it was on we it popped up on tally the other night on that Aussie Aussie favorites channel. And it
Matt: It did, yeah. Yeah.
Tanaya: was actually the first time I'd seen it. And just seeing you pop up in those little scenes with your notepad as the detective.
Matt: They were so they were so lovely. And I yeah, I was told this, so I'll I'll I'll say it as it was told to me that I was popular on on set, and there were many scenes that I wasn't actually in. I was the partner of a senior detective, and there were lots of scenes that he was in, but as written in the script, I wasn't there. But they liked my company, they liked having me around, so they flew me back into Adelaide a few times to basically just wander in the back of scenes, as you said with my notebook. picking up a a vase or or whatever I I might do. so I was very happy to go with that.
Tanaya: Yeah, what a great gig.
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: just enjoying there to enjoy the ride and not really having to do all the hard work.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. Which is my preferred way of living.
Tanaya: It is absolutely your preferred way of living. so when you hear all of those credits and then some aloud, what goes through your mind?
Matt: a lot of beautiful memories, a lot of gratitude. I certainly don't want my ride to be over anytime soon, but I I have been blessed by a career that can be very, very difficult, very hard to stay in, particularly as the pressures of financial pressures, family pressures come to fore as you get older. But I've had some Brilliant times. I've done some great work or been involved in some great work on stage. you know, Sydney Theatre Company, Melbourne Theatre Company, as you mentioned before, some some TV series that that didn't, you know, they that they're not that memorable to to many people, but I I had a wonderful time doing it. So I I've been given many gifts and it's put me in front of some incredible people, many of whom are are still dear to me and and although I might not speak to them all the time. I can run into them ten years and and it'll be just like it was yesterday. So it's been a wonderful ride. As we all know, or I I guess maybe we don't all know, if you don't enter that stratosphere as an actor and you are just a working actor, it means there are times that you're struggling to make a living and so there are times that it can feel very unfair when you're getting overlooked for roles that you'd love to play. But on the whole, on the balance of things, it's it's been an absolute gift and I I would be pretty selfish to be angry at the at the job, at the career, because on the whole it's given me lots of great times.
Tanaya: Now one of your most memorable gigs, no doubt, has been the voice of Josh from Kmart.
Matt: Well John. Okay. Okay.
Tanaya: So for those of you who've never had the pleasure of being graced by Josh in Kmart, Josh was the guy who came over the loudspeaker and imparted a very important message about the shopping trolleys.
Matt: It was on loop if it wasn't every ten minutes, it was every fifteen minutes. So if you were in Kmart, Josh would come on the loudspeaker and go, Hi everyone. We all know that putting the kids in the trolleys is great fun, but you're gonna be careful. You know, I did all this sort of safety public service announcement stuff. And like all of the gigs, I I I would have gone into a studio one day, done it in half an hour, that's it, not really thought about it. I then went overseas and lived in the UK for six years. And when I got back, I realized that it had been playing for eight or nine years. And so Josh had this sort of following, both those that claimed that they knew him and went to school with him, those that wanted to kill him. Which if you'd if you'd
Tanaya: No.
Matt: had to hear it more than twice on your Kmart visit, I'm sure I would want to kill Josh too. I think you'd hear it four times at least.
Tanaya: Ha ha
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: Yes. So well Josh
Matt: But that's a classic example of one of those little bread and butter jobs that if you're lucky enough to get some voiceover work, which I certainly have been lucky enough to. They're the little things that keep the wolf from the door and keep the rent paid and
Tanaya: Mm-hmm.
Matt: and you know, they're very valuable. But you don't really think about
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: them afterwards. in your mind they're gone. That was the gig. But Josh had a life of his own.
Tanaya: He certainly did. So apart
Matt: Yeah
Tanaya: from Josh, which clearly was a pivotal point in your career, has
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: there been a particular role or project that really transformed or challenged you in some way?
Matt: Well, the film that I did in nineteen ninety-six, Love and Other Catastrophes, was that was the moment that that gave me the little boost into the industry that I needed. it was a wonderful indie film. In fact I think some people credit it as as one of the the the films that reanimated the Australian indie film scene at that time. it was made on a shoestring budget. In fact, I didn't think I was gonna get paid. I didn't think anyone would ever see it. I remember we were all helping. You might be holding a cable for the boom operator. I remember one day one of the guys had to go to the Social Security office to put in his form for unemployment benefits. And three of us also jumped in the car with him because we had to get our forms in as well. So it was it was made with no pressure. We were having a great time. We were all young and unknown. and all of a sudden, I think it was nine months later, there was a phone call from my agent saying, the Australian Film Commission, as it was then, has seen it there giving the funding to to get it made post production wise, and you're getting paid. And it had a life. It people loved it. And of course it launched the careers of some Fine actors that have gone on to have terrific times.
Tanaya: And of course that was your fabulous hair day as well when you had a an amazing head of hair.
Matt: I did have a head of hair in those days, yes. I don't know. I I was never in love with my hair. I I I wasn't devastated when I went bald because I always kind of thought, my hair sucks a bit, really. Thank you, darling. Thank you.
Tanaya: And you've got a great bald head as well. So not a not everyone can pull that off.
Matt: Thank you.
Tanaya: But you did get to work with some very great talent on that show. And so for the people who have never seen Love and Other Catastrophes, can you share a little bit about the cast on that show?
Matt: So yeah, sure. The so the five leads, Matt Day, who's had a terrific career and I think now is making films of his own. Terrific actor. of course Francis O'Connor, who has had an outstanding Hollywood career, as has Rada Mitchell, Alice Garner and and myself.
Tanaya: And Frances O'Connor She's in some great films alongside other incredible Australian actors which I believe some of whom you trained with are at NIDA. So can we skip back a few years to NIDA?
Matt: Yeah, drama school. Yeah.
Tanaya: Where it all began at the National Institute of Dramatic Art, where it all began for you as a young man. You completed the three-year acting program back there in when did you say 1992?
Matt: N ninety two I graduated or finished, yeah.
Tanaya: and what many people may not know about you because you're indeed a humble man in many ways. in other ways, well, let's just say it's questionable.
Matt: Ha ha.
Tanaya: You went through your three years at NIDA alongside some pretty incredible talent, including the inimitable Essie Davis, and of course Kate Blanchette,
Matt: Yes. Yes. Absolutely too.
Tanaya: Who no doubt will become Dame Kate Blanchett at some point, I I've I've had a vision
Matt: She probably will, yes, and deserves it. Okay. Well, I mean, they are two of my favorite actors and and I was lucky enough to to share three very intimate years with them because you know, we started with twenty-four students and we ended with seventeen. So you do get to know each other and spend a lot of pretty focused time together. So they were wonderful from the get-go. everyone knew that they were gonna be successful and it's proven to be so.
Tanaya: Yeah, and of course Essie's body of work is rather notable. Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries, The Baba Duke, Game of
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Thrones, Baby Teeth, one of my favourite movies. I love that movie.
Matt: Great film.
Tanaya: One Day, also a great movie, Apple Cider Vinegar, which I haven't seen yet, and I
Matt: No.
Tanaya: only discovered that Essie was in it. But now I know she's in it. it's even more of a reason to see that one. It's on the the the watch list. And I think there's also an Olivia award in there, award.
Matt: She did for streetcar name desire on the London stage, yeah. Yeah.
Tanaya: And of course, Kate, Academy Award winner, I believe she was the first actor to win an Academy Award for portraying another actor who had previously won an Oscar, which was Catherine Hetburn in the Aviator.
Matt: Catherine Hepburn. Mm.
Tanaya: so you and Essie have remained great pals over the years.
Matt: We have. We have. She in fact she came to see Vidoria Van Frank in Melbourne. I haven't seen Kate for a long time, but I actually don't even know what country she lives in these days, England or the States. but no, Essie and I have remained very close. Again, we don't communicate that often, but when we do see each other, as with most of my former classmates from NIDA, It's it's very warm and very as I said, when you go through three years that intensely with people and you bond and become friends, that bond is quite hard to break.
Tanaya: Well now this raises an obvious question. do you think we could twist Essie and Kate's arm to join us on the podcast one day? Do you think they'd stoop to our level for an hour?
Matt: Well I don't know about stooping to our level. I think I think anyone that a as long as we pick the subject matter that they're interested and passionate about, I'm sure they would come on. Hopefully anyone would come on if if we were talking about something that was dear to their heart.
Tanaya: Look, there's no harm in asking anyway, right?
Matt: Sure, sure.
Tanaya: So anyway, back to NIDA, back to all the prestigious drama schools in the country, or indeed in the world. What advice would you give a young actor? Beginning out in the industry today. You know, someone who may be going through the audition process, or maybe someone who's just been accepted in into one of the prestigious schools, like the WA Academy of Performing Arts, NIDA, or indeed where I went back in '97, the Victorian College of the Arts.
Matt: Well, I'm so glad that I went to drama school. I was a Bogan, working class boy from the suburbs of Perth and and had I not gone to to Sydney or to a drama school, I I don't know how I would have found my way into the industry. I I I wasn't the sort of person that had contacts and So I'm I'm glad I went and I'm glad I got those three years of discipline because it was, it was a very disciplined place. There was I think for a lot of people, uni can be of I might go to the lecture, I might not. No, you were there from nine till six, Monday to Friday. And if you weren't, you needed a pretty good reason. And if you didn't have a pretty good reason, sort of three or four times in a year, you were gone. So they did instill discipline i in us, professional discipline, which I think I carry through today. as you know, I'm a very prompt person. I like being early and doing my warm-up and it gave me those very punctual and it gave me those skills that I certainly had never been exposed to. These days though, we see a lot of people who are doing extremely well that did not go to
Tanaya: You are very partial. partial. So this kind of code, we say what we can do is not cover anything. if you probably find I used to
Matt: drama schools. they they got themselves an agent or or they got a a show reel together and and I guess people are making lots of content themselves on
Tanaya: call the 1950s on the roof.
Matt: the social media platforms. So there are different ways in. in my day it seemed like that was the only way. You'd went to a drama school and once you graduated, you were exposed to some of the top agents in the country, which I fortunately still have with RGM. and that would that seem to be the way to go. So I don't know that in terms of logistics I can I can give advice 'cause I I may be behind the eight ball, but certainly it's a career that you need to go into with with joy in your heart because you will be kicked. You will have to pull yourself off the canvas numerous times. You're gonna get rejected a lot of the time, and you have to find the grace to not take that personally because it It never is. No one's intentionally trying to make you have a bad career. You just weren't the one that they chose. That's easy to say, and I sound all wise and and zen now. I still struggle with it. But you have to remind yourself I remember once I had a drink with a very well known older actor. And I was quite new in the business and and I was you know, very happy that this older actor was friendly with me and was having a beer with me. And I was complaining about the industry, sort of complaining about what we were just talking about, auditions, not fair, blah, blah, blah. And he looked at me and he said, I don't want to hear it, mate. No one's twisting your arm. You don't have to be in this game if you don't want to be, but I I don't want to sit here and talk about how hard it is. And I was mortified. You know, I wanted him to like me so much. Unfortunately he still does and we're still friends. But gee, that was a good lesson. That was a good lesson. No one no one is forcing me to do this. I can wrap it all up tomorrow and just go and get a nine to five. No one's making me do this. So accept the fact that there may be some lean times and and try and find joy on your heart for other people's success. Again, not always easy. but those are the sorts of things that I would suggest to anyone who wanted to get involved in it.
Tanaya: Yeah, so you do require a sort of temperance. and I think that's an essential trait that actors need and absolutely grace to be able to handle those blows
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: and to not become bitter and twisted because
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: or or a you know, an alcoholic or anything like that,
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: which you know, that path starts to become more and more attractive you know, the harder it gets, right?
Matt: absolutely. I've done it myself, sitting there you know, crying into a bottle of red wine about woe is me, life is unfair, why didn't I get that role, that act as shit, why isn't it me I could do that much better? Yeah, it's it's a very that kind of victim mentality. It's very comfortable, it's very easy to go there because you don't have to take any responsibility for it.
Tanaya: And of course, I know you won't mind me sharing this because you have always spoken very openly about it on air. and of course, you let me mention a little bit about it in my book, Evolving Traditions, Yoga Ethics and Modern Practice. and you you speak about your your time struggling with alcohol and and how it almost destroyed your career at one point. Are you
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: are you happy to talk a little bit about that?
Matt: Yeah, I am because I you know, I haven't had a drink for ten years now, so I can look back on it with a a sense of balance. but I I was a big drinker. I was always a big drinker. We talk about the traditions passed down from our parents. I mean, I I didn't know that there was any other way to live. I I grew up in a drinking household. they drank. They they drank all the time. I thought that's what you did. and I I picked up those reins as a young fella and I continued to be a big drinker. I was always first at the party and last to leave. I had a tremendous capacity for it. And for the longest time I was still able to, certainly in my mind anyway, keep doing good work, t turning up on time, all that sort of stuff. But yes, as I got into my later thirties and early forties. it was definitely starting to take control of me and there wasn't really a day that went by that I didn't drink, to to dangerous levels. and so I was lucky in a way that my Nedea, my rock bottom happened on a comedy stage as opposed to a theatrical stage, I think. Mostly because anyone who's been to a stand-up comedy club will see that comedians will often walk on stage with a drink. You know, it's it's the one workplace where it's almost encouraged. And so I
Tanaya: Yeah, Yes. so I can be manager kind of cool.
Matt: I did make a make a fool of myself in Melbourne, on the in the middle of a bender. And I I remember waking up on a Sunday morning and going, Wow, I I know I stuffed up last night. and if I don't get a a handle on this, I'm not gonna have a career. and I'm just so grateful that I I was able to stop. you know, went and got some help and talked to people that were very helpful, including other alcoholics and I got off it. I'm I'm clearly an addictive person it'll be the a packet of chocolate biscuits or whatever it might be. I I am an addictive personality and
Tanaya: I think you're a creative personality. You have so much creative energy and when you're not creating things, that's when that energy goes down those other paths and and
Matt: Uh-huh.
Tanaya: I I I say that because I see that within myself as well. That,
Matt: Hm.
Tanaya: you know, the old saying goes, the devil makes use of idle hands and
Matt: Yes.
Tanaya: but when you're a creative I think it's even triple fold.
Matt: It is and and I and I guess also, you know, when you look back and I I don't want to look back with regret, because I did what I did at the time and at the time it seemed like the right thing to do. But I I was thinking about this the other day, you know, so much of
Tanaya: Yeah, it's right. So
Matt: my young life was looking at people whom I admired, you know, Bowie, Jagger, whoever, drinking and smoking and partying. And that's all great, but I I missed out the bit of getting famous first. Like
Tanaya: Ha ha ha.
Matt: like do that first and then go and party. I Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tanaya: Get famous first for God's sake. and so look, beyond that gig that was the catalyst where you just really made a fool of yourself on stage and that was the turning point for you. Were
Matt: Mm, mm.
Tanaya: there any other trial by fire gigs or shows that really called on those same virtues of humility, temperance, you know, whatever you want to call it to get
Matt: Well humility.
Tanaya: yourself out of that.
Matt: Sure. Humility, yes. and it didn't get me out of this situation, but it allowed me to reflect on the situation. I did very early on in my stand up career, I was offered a gig at a notoriously tough room in Manchester. And I was quite new. I was telling some of the other comics, I've got this 15 minutes at this gig. And they're like, careful, that's tough. That's a tough room. And I worked myself up into a lather about it. And I walked on stage, and for some reason, well, because of what I'd heard and I put on this sort of character, which was tough, Matt, sweary Matt. And it wasn't me. And you know. People will often say to comedians, is heckling the worst thing that can happen? Heckling's not the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing that can happen is what happened to me, which is cold indifference, where after two minutes an audience goes, Nah, I don't like this guy, and they just start talking to each other. But the the humility comes in because I I at that stage I I'd had 10 years of, you know, theater work under my belt, and I was able to kind of
Tanaya: no. Well was at the point after
Matt: after crying for a a few hours, work out where it had
Tanaya: out.
Matt: all gone wrong and I realized that I was a fraud. that wasn't me and I I've I've learnt that comedy audiences particularly, they will forgive a lot, even not being that funny, if they like you and if they think you're genuine. And so I made a promise to myself in that moment, like, if I'm gonna die on my ass on stage, I'm gonna do it being me, not not trying to be someone else. So that was a great lesson, but it it hurt.
Tanaya: Yeah, and look, I think it's true of any profession, any line of work, whether it's, teaching a class of some kind, being a door-to-door salesman, whatever, it's the authenticity, that the
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: heart to heart connection that is truly the magnetic force, right?
Matt: what else is there? I mean at the end of the day, particularly as a comedian,
Tanaya: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Matt: we're all doing the same joke. We're all talking
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: about the same thing. the only thing I have that is unique is is myself. because the material in and of itself, yes, you come up with hopefully clever and different and funny little twists on the same topics, but it's only me that that can be different. It's it's so so
Tanaya: Yeah, that's good.
Matt: to be someone else, you're really shooting yourself in the foot.
Tanaya: Now, traditionally, comedy has always challenged boundaries and it's said things that polite society wouldn't say. But
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: today it's very different out there in comedy land. The world of comedy is not what it used to be. Comedians don't have as much freedom of speech anymore, do they?
Matt: Well, no probably not. It's funny because people will put all sorts of stuff up on social media, all kinds of opinions. But if you want to be a working comic, most of the time you have to try and navigate your way through all of that. it is an interesting one. Forever and a day, the comedic character has been the truth teller. You know, you think about King Lear and the Fool. He's the only one that can tell this King who's is in all kinds of mental distress. He's the only one that can tell him the truth, and he's the only one that the king will listen to. So that idea of the comic highlighting or putting a light into dark corners in a humorous way so it doesn't feel like a lecture has always been a really important part of the job. you think of shows like you know, MASH showing the Korean War so brilliantly with those humorous moments and then bang. something terrible war like happened and and so you were shaken out of it again. So it's always been that way. And and of course we have entered a point in the performing well in the world where if someone takes offense and if someone chooses to and has the tools to highlight that offence in public, you know, you can be cancelled or you can certainly lose work and be vilified online by lots of people. So that's scary. I mean, I certainly don't seek to offend anyone. I'm just trying to make people laugh. But I'm sure at times when you're in the moment, things have come out of my mouth that possibly I wouldn't have said had I had the time to think about it. But as a comedian you've got to take that step of I don't want to edit myself. So I have to take this risk. And I'm not even what you would call an edgy comedian. So those that do go down those paths have got much thicker skin than I. and I guess, today it can be really difficult. Again, if if you're the in the realms of Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais, where you don't need the the three hundred dollar gig on a on a Friday night in Fremantle, that's fine.
Tanaya: You know, I and really five forty five feet. well when you perform two things, you need to get three. Yeah. So I'm just
Matt: But when you're a working comedian, you need to keep getting booked. And s and at the end of the day, you know, clubs don't just even if they love you and know that it wasn't your fault and wish it was different, it's just they're just like I can't do it, mate. It's just not worth the heat for me. And you know, so that's where it gets quite difficult.
Tanaya: Hmm. So look, jumping topics. Not so much comedy. Acting.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Tanaya: Acting is often seen from the outside as this quite glamorous profession. But you know, having l having lived with it.
Matt: For those on the video.
Tanaya: Having lived with you for many years now, the reality is quite different for many. So
Matt: Sure.
Tanaya: there are long stretches of uncertainty, there are constant auditions, there's constant rejection.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: and you know, one thing I've really admired about you is once you go and do an audition. you just put it behind you and you forget about it and if something comes of that wonderful. But I'm sure there are many actors out there who don't have that skill, who are waiting by the phone and you know, beyond the work, beyond the glitter. The resilience that actors need to survive in the industry. it must be so hard for so many dealing with rejection after rejection.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: so what has a career in the performing arts asked of you personally?
Matt: Well, let me just say that progress, not perfection, right? And and certainly for me, although I really do try to forget about things once I've done them, to give them out to the universe and whatever will be will be. Of course I don't always succeed in that. And you know, there are roles that I think, gee, I'd love to get that. There was one recently, which I've been on I hadn't heard anything for months and months and months and you know, I found out the other day that I didn't get it. Yeah, no one bothered to tell me. and you know, those sorts of things can get you down a little bit. But I I I honestly don't know what else I can do. I honestly feel like this is what I was put on the planet to do. And I I wish I you know, I was getting all of the work as every actor would be thinking right now. but I this is what I do and this is what I've wanted to do since I was fifteen years old, since I did my first audition at the Garrick Theatre in Guildford here in Perth and did the Rainmaker. And I knew and and there's never been a moment that I didn't think I wanted to do this. So that's a gift and as I said earlier
Tanaya: So obviously and as it's good,
Matt: so many great adventures.
Tanaya: so you play.
Matt: But yeah, it's tough. It's tough. And of course, you know, when one has a family that I that I do now, you feel emasculated because you can't pay the rent. You know, it's difficult. You have to do jobs that you don't want to do. so yes, it is. It it's all of those things. But at the end
Tanaya: so yes, you need to it's all the best so
Matt: of the day There's nothing else I can do. There's nothing else I want to do. And so I have to
Tanaya: There's an added like booking that kind of stuff that's going to be aware.
Matt: find my peace with all of that.
Tanaya: And I guess the wonderful thing about a career in acting is that there is no retirement date. As long as you keep learning your lines and you're able to speak reasonably, eloquently,
Matt: is that there is no retirement date as long as you keep learning your lines and and you're able to to reasonably eloquently.
Tanaya: you can act right up until your final days. And so hopefully all the budding writers and filmmakers will continue to write roles for elderly senior citizens.
Matt: Well, I mean that and that that is my that is you talk about a five, ten year plan. My plan is to stay alive long enough that all of my competitors have died off.
Tanaya: yes, so look, we haven't really spoken about radio much. and I feel like we should just just briefly
Matt: Okay.
Tanaya: touch on that for a minute. So what did radio teach you that acting and stand-up didn't?
Matt: well what it taught me was to be brief. radio, particularly commercial radio, you've got a very limited amount of time. And predominantly my job on Mixed Ninety Four point five was doing sketches and songs a lot of the time. And I think when I first started they would often be too long. and I learnt that get in, get out, ninety seconds, leave wanting more. Our dear old friend at the comedy lounge, John McAllister, always said to me, you know, no one's ever complained to him that the show went too short. If they've had a good time, they they're coming back. But you make people e you know, you might have four great comedians and then one of them's a bit rough and It's like, all of a sudden people are looking at their watch and whatnot. So being brief, being punchy, that's definitely
Tanaya: Yeah,
Matt: what radio taught me. And I I'd love the medium of radio ever since I was a little boy. I used to get the little transistor radio under my Duna in bed and listen to the BBC World Service to get the English soccer results and you feel like someone's talking to you. It's so intimate. It's such an incredible medium. And I know podcasts serve that as well. And and I'm a huge avid consumer of podcasts because of that. I love the medium. I love the idea of someone talking to you and it's as if it's only you and and that joyous thing of feeling like you're part of someone's someone's day. And and that's what we were. I you know,
Tanaya: That sure might have a
Matt: People were genuinely pleased to hear us. We we were sort
Tanaya: file to someone someone.
Matt: of like you turn on the radio or you your alarm goes off, the radio goes on. Pete, Matt, and Kimber are on. it's okay.
Tanaya: Hmm. Well, as brief as it was over those eight years on Brecke Radio, you did gain some very, very loyal listeners. And I remember
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: when you left seeing on Facebook many listeners writing in saying, What happened to Maddie? you know, you had so many listeners that were very unhappy. when you left and I'm sure that they are missing you very much. And so I guess my next question would be, Do you think this is the end of radio for you? Would you love to do another stint somewhere?
Matt: absolutely. As I said, I love the medium and and it's the great survivor. It really is. People will always listen to the radio. And you know, I love listening to that sort of long form conversation stuff that the ABC do so well. and yeah, I would love to do more radio.
Tanaya: Yeah, so talking about getting some more work on radio or wherever it may be, I wanted to ask you as you know, you're now at the tender age of, well, let's just say you're on the side of making more noise every time you sit down or you you you get out of bed in the morning.
Matt: Let's let's just say that I'm on to my third free poo test.
Tanaya: So are you finding that the auditions and roles that you're being offered these days are changing? are the auditions that you're being offered markedly different than say 10, 20 years ago?
Matt: for sure, of course. Yeah. I mean I'm very much now in that age bracket of the dad or who knows, maybe even getting a little further than that. But but again, you gotta go with that. You've got to find grace with that. And as as you alluded to earlier, that's the great thing about being an actor is that you can keep playing Or I mean imagine if I get to I hopefully I do get to a ripe old age and I can look back on a career where I've got to play so many different age groups, so many different people at different points in their life. You know, what a gift.
Tanaya: What a beautiful show reel that would make. look.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. You can play it at my funeral.
Tanaya: Well, look, I personally love you as the villain. I loved you in Reckless. I think you play those, villainous mafiosa roles particularly well. And I think I'd love to see you in more of those roles.
Matt: I'm happy to take those roles.
Tanaya: May we manifest, may you be put forth for villainous roles at some point for films that are being shot, maybe in the fabulous new Perth film studios in Whiteman. I believe there's an open day coming up on the 11th and 12th of September for a tour of the new film studios.
Matt: Great. Great. Maybe I'll just walk in there and start doing a monologue and see if someone gives me a job.
Tanaya: Well look, we've arrived at our final two questions that we want to ask every guest. So here we go. If you could go back, not to erase the life that you've lived, but to meet your younger self with the knowledge that you have now, would you do anything differently? And what would you do differently?
Matt: Well I definitely tell myself to not pick up that cigarette. and I would have told myself to just temper my behavior a little bit. Because as I said, I I I don't wanna look back with regret because I did what I did at the time and I was just trying to get through this crazy life like everybody else. But in my in my dark moments when I'm alone at night or, you know, when you're asleep and I'm I'm thinking, I do think about what maybe I might have achieved had I put a little bit more of that energy into creating other than partying. But that's just not the way it turned out. So I would probably suggest that.
Tanaya: Okay, so finally, how would you like to see the performing arts, or maybe on a more personal level, how would you like to see Matt Diktinsky evolve?
Matt: Well look, I'm evolving the way I'm evolving and sometimes I get it right and sometimes I get it wrong. But I guess the definition of evolution is that you won't really know that until you can look back in the rear view mirror to see if that was the right path. But in terms of the industry, you know, everyone's freaking out about AI and I understand why, because we can become completely useless in a heartbeat. people can make music, they can do voiceovers very well. you know, human beings are rapidly losing work to AI in in every sector of the world. But I'm hoping that that will lead to a slight revolution where people are going, no, no, I I want to know that it's a human being. And that may be the boom time for live performance that has sort of been dying over the years. You know, we don't see a lot of venues with live music. you know, perhaps the theater audiences are are are sort of the same people that have always gone to the theater. And maybe people will turn around and go, No, I'm sick of all this computer generated stuff. I want to go and see a real life human being on stage and know that that is a person. and and
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: not an avatar. And if that's the the sort of blowback to the AI revolution, then great.
Tanaya: Yeah. Well look, I think that's a wrap. sadly, because we've had too many balls in the air lately, we weren't able to get this particular episode out in time to promote the diary of Anne Frank. But where can people
Matt: Hmm.
Tanaya: find you elsewhere in the coming weeks?
Matt: I think I've got some gigs coming up, some stand-up gigs. I think there's one on the eighth at the Subiaco Art Center.
Tanaya: That's okay, your personal assistant has that information. You are indeed hosting the WA Comedy All-Stars coming up during Comedy Week on Saturday, the eighth of August at 8
Matt: Yes. There you go.
Tanaya: 30 PM at the Subiaco Art Centre. and the programme also features my fabulous cousin, Simone Springer, who we cannot
Matt: brilliant.
Tanaya: wait to welcome onto the podcast in the coming weeks. We'll be talking to Simone about the evolving tradition of comedy and politics, because of course she ran for the Greens. not long ago, so Simone's on that lineup, so I'll definitely have to make an extra effort to go to the Subi Arts Center for that one. So tickets are available for that through WAComedyweek.com. And what else do you have coming up this year?
Matt: there's other gigs. I I don't know.
Tanaya: Look, I guess I guess like all podcasters, we should leave some links in the show notes.
Matt: Yeah, that's the best way to do it, yes.
Tanaya: So we'll leave some links in the show notes, including some information for our great Southern Renewal Retreat that we're hosting in Denmark, Western Australia in April next year from the 15th to the 20th of April. We still have some spaces on that. We haven't really started advertising that yet, but we have filled a couple of spots already, and we like to keep the numbers very small for this. So if anyone feels like they just need some green. Green therapy, some Rainbow Coast therapy. Shoot an email through to connect at mindbodycollective.com.au. And of course, Matt, you do have something else. You have a super cool children's book coming out very soon that you have co-written with one of your BFFs, Mango Call.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Are we allowed to have a little sneak peek of what it's about, or are you keeping that super top secret up your sleeve?
Matt: I'm keeping it ke keeping it under the sleeve. Top secret, top secret. But it'll be excellent.
Tanaya: I have seen a sneak peek and it it's pretty pretty damn good. so apart from that, thank you, darling husband, for letting
Matt: Thank you.
Tanaya: me interview you today. you may submit your invoice.
Matt: Okay. All right, I'll go and put the dinner on.
Tanaya: So until next time, may we keep questioning, may we remain curious, may we be less certain, and may we make space for traditions to evolve, remembering that in this dualistic world of light, dark, sun, moon, hot, cold, yin yang, reverence and reinvention can indeed sit peacefully side by side if we allow it.
Matt: Hear here.
Tanaya: Here. Thank you.
Matt: Thank you. Bye for that. Bye.
Matt: Hello, Tanaya. how are you? We're actually
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: only only there's only that wall is the only thing separating us at the moment. But we decided we wanted to test our our metal with the technology because you know, it's not our strong suit, is it?
Tanaya: No, it's not. God help us. Yes, technology is definitely not our strong suit, but this is going to be fun. Let's see how we go.
Matt: Okay.
Tanaya: So, for those who are not familiar, this podcast explores humanity's traditions, how they are passed down, how they shift, and how they sometimes fall apart under the weight of the modern world. But evolving traditions is also about people, the ones who carry those traditions, reshape them, and occasionally trip over them in public. So today, my love, this episode.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Tanaya: is all about you, Matt Diktinski.
Matt: Wow, it should be quite a short episode, I would imagine.
Tanaya: So for anyone in Australia who enjoys comedy, theatre film, radio, or the occasional delightfully trashy piece of Aussie TV and somehow doesn't know you, Matt, well, they've been missing out, quite frankly.
Matt: Have they? I hope so. A little bit.
Tanaya: So today we're stepping behind the resume of the man himself, And we'll explore, Matt, how you became the performer that you are, how the industry has shifted around you over the years, and where you think the performing arts may be headed next. And if you're open to it, I'd also love to chat about the obstacles that you've encountered along the way and maybe the temperance, the resilience, and perhaps. The occasional irreverence that has helped you navigate those challenges.
Matt: Well, I mean certainly resilience is a big one. That's for sure. It's unless you're lucky enough to enter the stratosphere of of super fame, being a working actor takes quite a bit of resilience, I would say.
Tanaya: It sure does. But first, let's begin where we're always going to begin, and that's with our opening question. And that's the very first tradition that we inherit as young children. And we want to ask every guest this. And the question is: what's the first thing that you remember your parents teaching you about the world when you were young?
Matt: Well, we we talked about this in the marriage podcast. so I'll I'll I'll repeat myself. I I I remember my mother was very keen particularly on making my brother and I be confident to speak to to other people. if we asked a question like what's the time or or yeah. we're if we had a question that could be answered by another individual, she would point us towards that that person and say, Go and ask that man the time, or you go up to the counter and ask for some milk or bread. And and I think it gave us the confidence to to talk to people. And if I do have a a eeny weenie superpower, it is that I do feel comfortable talking to pretty much anyone. So if she gave me that I'm very grateful for that because that stood me in good stead, certainly as a broadcaster, in my eight years on the radio, but also I guess in my comedy, you you kinda need to feel comfortable talking to strangers if you're gonna do stand up. So if that's the tradition she passed on to me, I'm very grateful. As you well know, my parents also passed on perhaps some less helpful traditions that I've struggled with for the most of my life, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
Tanaya: And I did have the pleasure of meeting your dear old mum Judy, bless her, while she was alive. she was indeed a very larger than life character. I didn't get to meet your dad. but Judy struck me as a real entertainer, and I can see how that was passed on down the line. And so I'm wondering: do you think the performer in you was already there as a child, or do you think it was something that you can? instructed gradually over time. Did you inherit this from your dear old mum?
Matt: I think I inherited it from all of the family, particularly mum's side, particularly mum's side. My my grandparents, Harold and Ruth, beautiful people, from the north of England, from Blackpool, they were entertainers. my grandfather would appear with his false teeth out and with Nana's underwear on his head. Well And you know, probably one of the most annoying parts of my personality I would suggest to live with is that I always look for the joke. I probably hijack serious moments trying to find the laugh in it, which is not always helpful. I recognise that, but that was a part of our life. And maybe it comes from, you know, working class people who don't have a lot. Really all you can do is entertain each other or go downhill. And I think that was definitely inherited from my mum's side of the family. But my dad, Miroslav, who was a a cool cat, He was very funny in his own way. And so between the two of them, there was a lot of laughter, a lot of drama, more drama than I needed at times, but there was a lot of people liked telling good jokes and and I certainly inherited that buzz, or maybe some may say it's n needy to to be liked or to to be the accolade for performance. But I got that from them.
Tanaya: Well, it's a good thing. and so for the people who don't know you, Matt, you do indeed have your own Wikipedia page, which is how you know that a person has officially become notable or in fact on the on the contrary that perhaps someone has had a a wee too much time on their hands one afternoon. But
Matt: Not me.
Tanaya: But I'm wondering how does one get their own Wikipedia page? Is there like a a company out there who does that?
Matt: there might be. I didn't do this Wikipedia page. I've heard through the grapevine that maybe one of the distant cousins may have set it up, but I don't know a hundred percent. it definitely wasn't me. I I can't remember the last time I looked at it. I hope it's got nice things to say about me.
Tanaya: Well, according to the internet, according to that wiki page, Matthew Dictinsky is an Australian actor and comedian who graduated from the National Institute of Dramatic Art, NIDA, in nineteen ninety-two. And
Matt: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Tanaya: somewhere along the way, whoever did create that wiki page managed to spell Dictinsky incorrectly.
Matt: Well, they wouldn't be the first one. But you don't expect that from your family. it's not an easy name. D Y K T Y N S K I. I possibly should have thought about a different name for Showbiz, but it is a great score in Scrabble.
Tanaya: It certainly is. Okay, so across TV, you've had lead roles in Shockjock, Raw FM. You've appeared in a long list of Australian favourites The Man from Snowy River, Stingers, Blue Healers, Water Rats, Halifax, All Saints, The Secret Life of Us, House Husbands. I didn't actually know about that one, House Husbands.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Off Spring. your film work includes Love and Other Catastrophes, Awesome Film, Japanese Stories. With Tony Collette, Takeaway, and Will, where you played the lead role. And more recently, of course, you appeared in Reckless on SBS alongside Tasma Walton and Hunter
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Paige Lockard. And I believe that may still even be up on SBS On Demand?
Matt: I think you can still stream it on demand for sure. It's a great show. It's only four episodes. It's
Tanaya: It's it is
Matt: brilliant.
Tanaya: it's brilliant. so in Reckless you played Desmond, the mafia boss, which if I'm honest felt a little bit too convincing for my liking.
Matt: I'm a softie at heart, you know that. But actors are great actors love playing criminals because it's there that we can be the tough guy that we can never actually be in real life.
Tanaya: Exactly. But also Matt, you as a stand-up comic, you've done a lot of touring in your time. You've toured Australia, the UK, Europe, you spent several years living in London, you worked on the notoriously tough British comedy circuit, you performed at the Edinburgh Festival a few times, the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, London Soho Theatre, and the list goes on. And probably most people here in WA know you for your eight-year stint on Brecki Radio, where you co-hosted Perth's Mix 94.5 breakfast show alongside Claire Z and Kimber first, and then of course later Pete and Kimber.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Tanaya: And you finished that role in 2023? And then because none of that was enough, you then co-wrote a musical, funeral the musical, with your wife.
Matt: Yes, we did. We did do that.
Tanaya: And so what happened to the musical, Matt?
Matt: I don't know. I'm just waiting for Gina or Twiggy or someone with a million
Tanaya: Jane calls me to start.
Matt: d dollars to call me up and tell me to put it on.
Tanaya: Please, Janet Holmes Accord, Twiggy Forest, if
Matt: Or Janet Holmes are court, yes, yeah.
Tanaya: you're listening, do give Matt a call. But now there is one very important credit that I saved for last because it does feel especially relevant today, and that's because just a couple of hours ago you actually stepped off the stage at the Heath Ledger Theatre here in Perth in what was the final performance of the diary of Anne Frank.
Matt: Yes, absolutely. in fact I think I still have some eye makeup on, which you know, I don't normally
Tanaya: I think you do.
Matt: wait yeah, i each to their own, of course. yeah, we finished it after a a long journey with that play. last year, April twenty twenty five, we did the first Perth season. Then we did a a Melbourne Sydney tour and we've come back to do a a return season here in Perth, which finished today and it was a a beautiful experience. a difficult play, very heavy, a heavy energy, that's for sure. but a an important story and I think one that was really well told.
Tanaya: You must be exhausted having done you only did one today but you did two yesterday and you've been going all week really.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. Look, there there's always that come down at the end of a show which is sort of a mixture of elation and complete and utter tiredness, because even if one's feeling a little bit sick or, you know, a cold or whatnot, there's something about performing that you seem to get to the end most of the time and then you fall in a heap. I haven't fallen in a heap yet. I've just cooked dinner actually for us. but I'm sure that falling in a heap is not too far away.
Tanaya: One of the actors, one of the cast members, God bless her, was in the hospital the other night and
Matt: Yes.
Tanaya: still went on and did the show the next day.
Matt: The show must go on. That's actors for you. They are very resilient people and they are committed to their craft. just as a precaution, she went to hospital. She's fine.
Tanaya: thank goodness for that. Well, you
Matt: Mm-mm.
Tanaya: you played Herman Van Pals, a business associate
Matt: Yes.
Tanaya: of Otto Frank Anne's father, and he was often referred to as Mr. Van Dahn in Anne's diary. And I have to say, you really did embrace the Stanislavsky method in this role, Matt. He went full pelt into the method acting. And I have to say, it's been truly wonderful residing with Mr. Van Daan these past few weeks.
Matt: He's a bit
Tanaya: I felt like
Matt: of a grump.
Tanaya: he
Matt: Bit of a grump.
Tanaya: is a bit of a grump. but look on on a serious note because obviously it is a very serious story you got to play the role of Hermann van Paul Pals.
Matt: Mm, mm.
Tanaya: Alongside an extraordinary cast. And the production was put on by Drew Anthony, who has a pretty impressive portfolio himself. And it was the second time that I'd seen you in this role when I saw it the other day. And I have to say, it did land very differently for me this time around.
Matt: Did it. In what way?
Tanaya: well the first time I saw it, which was last year was it was it April?
Matt: Twenty twenty five, April, yeah.
Tanaya: April. So the first time I saw it, I found myself watching the characters more, the dynamics, the individual performances. But this time the story really did hit home for me. And I think the weight of the story, the humanity of the story, the smaller details. I I noticed subtle nuances that I'd I'd missed before, and I found myself already tearing up in the opening scene, and and of course, again in the end. Scene which just punches you right in the heart.
Matt: Hm.
Tanaya: So what an incredible cast, including your fine self. And I'd love to ask you how has it been working on this production and what has it asked of you as a performer? Because we all know that it's it's not an easy story to sink your teeth into.
Matt: No. I think everyone feels like they know the story of Anne Frank, the girl who with her family hid in an attic, a loft, for two years, while the Nazis occupied Amsterdam where she lived. And of course were rounding up Jewish people and they managed to evade that for some time, as I said, two years, but they were eventually caught. But what I loved about the play was that whilst we knew that that horror was going on, the Holocaust, the Second World War, that story's been told a l a lot and I'm sure it will continue to be. But what I found fascinating about the play was that its humanity was that of just eight people stuck in a, let's say, a room, a large room, for for two years and what that does to people, how that affects their psychology, their their particular lines in the sand. their patience. My character is clearly not happy to well, none of them are happy to be there, but finding it very difficult to be in there with with a a young girl, Anne, who's very vivacious and talkative, and it i it drives him insane and he doesn't behave particularly well. But the play I think doesn't judge the characters for that, nor should it, because who knows how any of us would react in that situation. And doing the show, I think, for all of us, particularly Chloe Jean, Vincent who played and Frank beauti beautifully.
Tanaya: she was amazing. My gosh, she really immersed herself in that role.
Matt: and I think for all of us, the names were changed actually by Otto Frank, who was the only survivor of the families that were in the in the loft in the attic. And so he changed them to or asked the writers to change the names from the from the actual family names. but I think we all felt a sense of responsibility, as I guess anyone would, any actor doing a biopic. you know, Bahamian Rhapsody or or Rocket Man or whatnot. You know, when you're playing a real person you want to deliver a whole person on the stage with all of their flaws and hopefully some joyous bits as well.
Tanaya: Yes, well, I can't really speak for Herman because he didn't really bring a lot of joy to the stage, but absolutely Anne you know amid those circumstances she was buoyant through the whole thing.
Matt: But I think that's I mean, the fact that you mentioned that about my character, I can imagine another version of a play like that where all of the characters are saintly because they're they're the victims of what's going on in this terrible time in our history. But but actually the writers didn't do that. they made these characters flawed and you realise in the play that my character is furious and Because they had a chance to get out and they didn't take it. for whatever reason. And again, you put yourself in that situation. Perhaps you you you see what's going on and you think, it can't get any worse. Things will get better, or or you've got investments that you don't want to leave. All sorts of pressures that that eventually led to being stuck in that place. And so he isn't a likable character, but I think There there's there's still a human I hope so anyway, in the way I played it, that there's there's still a human being there that that is doing his best despite the fact that he's finding it very difficult and is probably, you know, in today's language we'd probably say he was having a a a breakdown. You know.
Tanaya: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so The Diary Van Frank aside, because it's over and out as of today.
Matt: Hmm.
Tanaya: back to your very eclectic credits, and of course, I only have skimmed across the surface of what you've done. There are many things I've missed out, including your cop role as Detective Moffat in Heaven's Burning with Russell Crowe.
Matt: God. Blink and you miss it. Believe me. Blink and you miss it.
Tanaya: I I only mentioned that because it was on we it popped up on tally the other night on that Aussie Aussie favorites channel. And it
Matt: It did, yeah. Yeah.
Tanaya: was actually the first time I'd seen it. And just seeing you pop up in those little scenes with your notepad as the detective.
Matt: They were so they were so lovely. And I yeah, I was told this, so I'll I'll I'll say it as it was told to me that I was popular on on set, and there were many scenes that I wasn't actually in. I was the partner of a senior detective, and there were lots of scenes that he was in, but as written in the script, I wasn't there. But they liked my company, they liked having me around, so they flew me back into Adelaide a few times to basically just wander in the back of scenes, as you said with my notebook. picking up a a vase or or whatever I I might do. so I was very happy to go with that.
Tanaya: Yeah, what a great gig.
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: just enjoying there to enjoy the ride and not really having to do all the hard work.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. Which is my preferred way of living.
Tanaya: It is absolutely your preferred way of living. so when you hear all of those credits and then some aloud, what goes through your mind?
Matt: a lot of beautiful memories, a lot of gratitude. I certainly don't want my ride to be over anytime soon, but I I have been blessed by a career that can be very, very difficult, very hard to stay in, particularly as the pressures of financial pressures, family pressures come to fore as you get older. But I've had some Brilliant times. I've done some great work or been involved in some great work on stage. you know, Sydney Theatre Company, Melbourne Theatre Company, as you mentioned before, some some TV series that that didn't, you know, they that they're not that memorable to to many people, but I I had a wonderful time doing it. So I I've been given many gifts and it's put me in front of some incredible people, many of whom are are still dear to me and and although I might not speak to them all the time. I can run into them ten years and and it'll be just like it was yesterday. So it's been a wonderful ride. As we all know, or I I guess maybe we don't all know, if you don't enter that stratosphere as an actor and you are just a working actor, it means there are times that you're struggling to make a living and so there are times that it can feel very unfair when you're getting overlooked for roles that you'd love to play. But on the whole, on the balance of things, it's it's been an absolute gift and I I would be pretty selfish to be angry at the at the job, at the career, because on the whole it's given me lots of great times.
Tanaya: Now one of your most memorable gigs, no doubt, has been the voice of Josh from Kmart.
Matt: Well John. Okay. Okay.
Tanaya: So for those of you who've never had the pleasure of being graced by Josh in Kmart, Josh was the guy who came over the loudspeaker and imparted a very important message about the shopping trolleys.
Matt: It was on loop if it wasn't every ten minutes, it was every fifteen minutes. So if you were in Kmart, Josh would come on the loudspeaker and go, Hi everyone. We all know that putting the kids in the trolleys is great fun, but you're gonna be careful. You know, I did all this sort of safety public service announcement stuff. And like all of the gigs, I I I would have gone into a studio one day, done it in half an hour, that's it, not really thought about it. I then went overseas and lived in the UK for six years. And when I got back, I realized that it had been playing for eight or nine years. And so Josh had this sort of following, both those that claimed that they knew him and went to school with him, those that wanted to kill him. Which if you'd if you'd
Tanaya: No.
Matt: had to hear it more than twice on your Kmart visit, I'm sure I would want to kill Josh too. I think you'd hear it four times at least.
Tanaya: Ha ha
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: Yes. So well Josh
Matt: But that's a classic example of one of those little bread and butter jobs that if you're lucky enough to get some voiceover work, which I certainly have been lucky enough to. They're the little things that keep the wolf from the door and keep the rent paid and
Tanaya: Mm-hmm.
Matt: and you know, they're very valuable. But you don't really think about
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: them afterwards. in your mind they're gone. That was the gig. But Josh had a life of his own.
Tanaya: He certainly did. So apart
Matt: Yeah
Tanaya: from Josh, which clearly was a pivotal point in your career, has
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: there been a particular role or project that really transformed or challenged you in some way?
Matt: Well, the film that I did in nineteen ninety-six, Love and Other Catastrophes, was that was the moment that that gave me the little boost into the industry that I needed. it was a wonderful indie film. In fact I think some people credit it as as one of the the the films that reanimated the Australian indie film scene at that time. it was made on a shoestring budget. In fact, I didn't think I was gonna get paid. I didn't think anyone would ever see it. I remember we were all helping. You might be holding a cable for the boom operator. I remember one day one of the guys had to go to the Social Security office to put in his form for unemployment benefits. And three of us also jumped in the car with him because we had to get our forms in as well. So it was it was made with no pressure. We were having a great time. We were all young and unknown. and all of a sudden, I think it was nine months later, there was a phone call from my agent saying, the Australian Film Commission, as it was then, has seen it there giving the funding to to get it made post production wise, and you're getting paid. And it had a life. It people loved it. And of course it launched the careers of some Fine actors that have gone on to have terrific times.
Tanaya: And of course that was your fabulous hair day as well when you had a an amazing head of hair.
Matt: I did have a head of hair in those days, yes. I don't know. I I was never in love with my hair. I I I wasn't devastated when I went bald because I always kind of thought, my hair sucks a bit, really. Thank you, darling. Thank you.
Tanaya: And you've got a great bald head as well. So not a not everyone can pull that off.
Matt: Thank you.
Tanaya: But you did get to work with some very great talent on that show. And so for the people who have never seen Love and Other Catastrophes, can you share a little bit about the cast on that show?
Matt: So yeah, sure. The so the five leads, Matt Day, who's had a terrific career and I think now is making films of his own. Terrific actor. of course Francis O'Connor, who has had an outstanding Hollywood career, as has Rada Mitchell, Alice Garner and and myself.
Tanaya: And Frances O'Connor She's in some great films alongside other incredible Australian actors which I believe some of whom you trained with are at NIDA. So can we skip back a few years to NIDA?
Matt: Yeah, drama school. Yeah.
Tanaya: Where it all began at the National Institute of Dramatic Art, where it all began for you as a young man. You completed the three-year acting program back there in when did you say 1992?
Matt: N ninety two I graduated or finished, yeah.
Tanaya: and what many people may not know about you because you're indeed a humble man in many ways. in other ways, well, let's just say it's questionable.
Matt: Ha ha.
Tanaya: You went through your three years at NIDA alongside some pretty incredible talent, including the inimitable Essie Davis, and of course Kate Blanchette,
Matt: Yes. Yes. Absolutely too.
Tanaya: Who no doubt will become Dame Kate Blanchett at some point, I I've I've had a vision
Matt: She probably will, yes, and deserves it. Okay. Well, I mean, they are two of my favorite actors and and I was lucky enough to to share three very intimate years with them because you know, we started with twenty-four students and we ended with seventeen. So you do get to know each other and spend a lot of pretty focused time together. So they were wonderful from the get-go. everyone knew that they were gonna be successful and it's proven to be so.
Tanaya: Yeah, and of course Essie's body of work is rather notable. Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries, The Baba Duke, Game of
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Thrones, Baby Teeth, one of my favourite movies. I love that movie.
Matt: Great film.
Tanaya: One Day, also a great movie, Apple Cider Vinegar, which I haven't seen yet, and I
Matt: No.
Tanaya: only discovered that Essie was in it. But now I know she's in it. it's even more of a reason to see that one. It's on the the the watch list. And I think there's also an Olivia award in there, award.
Matt: She did for streetcar name desire on the London stage, yeah. Yeah.
Tanaya: And of course, Kate, Academy Award winner, I believe she was the first actor to win an Academy Award for portraying another actor who had previously won an Oscar, which was Catherine Hetburn in the Aviator.
Matt: Catherine Hepburn. Mm.
Tanaya: so you and Essie have remained great pals over the years.
Matt: We have. We have. She in fact she came to see Vidoria Van Frank in Melbourne. I haven't seen Kate for a long time, but I actually don't even know what country she lives in these days, England or the States. but no, Essie and I have remained very close. Again, we don't communicate that often, but when we do see each other, as with most of my former classmates from NIDA, It's it's very warm and very as I said, when you go through three years that intensely with people and you bond and become friends, that bond is quite hard to break.
Tanaya: Well now this raises an obvious question. do you think we could twist Essie and Kate's arm to join us on the podcast one day? Do you think they'd stoop to our level for an hour?
Matt: Well I don't know about stooping to our level. I think I think anyone that a as long as we pick the subject matter that they're interested and passionate about, I'm sure they would come on. Hopefully anyone would come on if if we were talking about something that was dear to their heart.
Tanaya: Look, there's no harm in asking anyway, right?
Matt: Sure, sure.
Tanaya: So anyway, back to NIDA, back to all the prestigious drama schools in the country, or indeed in the world. What advice would you give a young actor? Beginning out in the industry today. You know, someone who may be going through the audition process, or maybe someone who's just been accepted in into one of the prestigious schools, like the WA Academy of Performing Arts, NIDA, or indeed where I went back in '97, the Victorian College of the Arts.
Matt: Well, I'm so glad that I went to drama school. I was a Bogan, working class boy from the suburbs of Perth and and had I not gone to to Sydney or to a drama school, I I don't know how I would have found my way into the industry. I I I wasn't the sort of person that had contacts and So I'm I'm glad I went and I'm glad I got those three years of discipline because it was, it was a very disciplined place. There was I think for a lot of people, uni can be of I might go to the lecture, I might not. No, you were there from nine till six, Monday to Friday. And if you weren't, you needed a pretty good reason. And if you didn't have a pretty good reason, sort of three or four times in a year, you were gone. So they did instill discipline i in us, professional discipline, which I think I carry through today. as you know, I'm a very prompt person. I like being early and doing my warm-up and it gave me those very punctual and it gave me those skills that I certainly had never been exposed to. These days though, we see a lot of people who are doing extremely well that did not go to
Tanaya: You are very partial. partial. So this kind of code, we say what we can do is not cover anything. if you probably find I used to
Matt: drama schools. they they got themselves an agent or or they got a a show reel together and and I guess people are making lots of content themselves on
Tanaya: call the 1950s on the roof.
Matt: the social media platforms. So there are different ways in. in my day it seemed like that was the only way. You'd went to a drama school and once you graduated, you were exposed to some of the top agents in the country, which I fortunately still have with RGM. and that would that seem to be the way to go. So I don't know that in terms of logistics I can I can give advice 'cause I I may be behind the eight ball, but certainly it's a career that you need to go into with with joy in your heart because you will be kicked. You will have to pull yourself off the canvas numerous times. You're gonna get rejected a lot of the time, and you have to find the grace to not take that personally because it It never is. No one's intentionally trying to make you have a bad career. You just weren't the one that they chose. That's easy to say, and I sound all wise and and zen now. I still struggle with it. But you have to remind yourself I remember once I had a drink with a very well known older actor. And I was quite new in the business and and I was you know, very happy that this older actor was friendly with me and was having a beer with me. And I was complaining about the industry, sort of complaining about what we were just talking about, auditions, not fair, blah, blah, blah. And he looked at me and he said, I don't want to hear it, mate. No one's twisting your arm. You don't have to be in this game if you don't want to be, but I I don't want to sit here and talk about how hard it is. And I was mortified. You know, I wanted him to like me so much. Unfortunately he still does and we're still friends. But gee, that was a good lesson. That was a good lesson. No one no one is forcing me to do this. I can wrap it all up tomorrow and just go and get a nine to five. No one's making me do this. So accept the fact that there may be some lean times and and try and find joy on your heart for other people's success. Again, not always easy. but those are the sorts of things that I would suggest to anyone who wanted to get involved in it.
Tanaya: Yeah, so you do require a sort of temperance. and I think that's an essential trait that actors need and absolutely grace to be able to handle those blows
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: and to not become bitter and twisted because
Matt: Yeah.
Tanaya: or or a you know, an alcoholic or anything like that,
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: which you know, that path starts to become more and more attractive you know, the harder it gets, right?
Matt: absolutely. I've done it myself, sitting there you know, crying into a bottle of red wine about woe is me, life is unfair, why didn't I get that role, that act as shit, why isn't it me I could do that much better? Yeah, it's it's a very that kind of victim mentality. It's very comfortable, it's very easy to go there because you don't have to take any responsibility for it.
Tanaya: And of course, I know you won't mind me sharing this because you have always spoken very openly about it on air. and of course, you let me mention a little bit about it in my book, Evolving Traditions, Yoga Ethics and Modern Practice. and you you speak about your your time struggling with alcohol and and how it almost destroyed your career at one point. Are you
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: are you happy to talk a little bit about that?
Matt: Yeah, I am because I you know, I haven't had a drink for ten years now, so I can look back on it with a a sense of balance. but I I was a big drinker. I was always a big drinker. We talk about the traditions passed down from our parents. I mean, I I didn't know that there was any other way to live. I I grew up in a drinking household. they drank. They they drank all the time. I thought that's what you did. and I I picked up those reins as a young fella and I continued to be a big drinker. I was always first at the party and last to leave. I had a tremendous capacity for it. And for the longest time I was still able to, certainly in my mind anyway, keep doing good work, t turning up on time, all that sort of stuff. But yes, as I got into my later thirties and early forties. it was definitely starting to take control of me and there wasn't really a day that went by that I didn't drink, to to dangerous levels. and so I was lucky in a way that my Nedea, my rock bottom happened on a comedy stage as opposed to a theatrical stage, I think. Mostly because anyone who's been to a stand-up comedy club will see that comedians will often walk on stage with a drink. You know, it's it's the one workplace where it's almost encouraged. And so I
Tanaya: Yeah, Yes. so I can be manager kind of cool.
Matt: I did make a make a fool of myself in Melbourne, on the in the middle of a bender. And I I remember waking up on a Sunday morning and going, Wow, I I know I stuffed up last night. and if I don't get a a handle on this, I'm not gonna have a career. and I'm just so grateful that I I was able to stop. you know, went and got some help and talked to people that were very helpful, including other alcoholics and I got off it. I'm I'm clearly an addictive person it'll be the a packet of chocolate biscuits or whatever it might be. I I am an addictive personality and
Tanaya: I think you're a creative personality. You have so much creative energy and when you're not creating things, that's when that energy goes down those other paths and and
Matt: Uh-huh.
Tanaya: I I I say that because I see that within myself as well. That,
Matt: Hm.
Tanaya: you know, the old saying goes, the devil makes use of idle hands and
Matt: Yes.
Tanaya: but when you're a creative I think it's even triple fold.
Matt: It is and and I and I guess also, you know, when you look back and I I don't want to look back with regret, because I did what I did at the time and at the time it seemed like the right thing to do. But I I was thinking about this the other day, you know, so much of
Tanaya: Yeah, it's right. So
Matt: my young life was looking at people whom I admired, you know, Bowie, Jagger, whoever, drinking and smoking and partying. And that's all great, but I I missed out the bit of getting famous first. Like
Tanaya: Ha ha ha.
Matt: like do that first and then go and party. I Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tanaya: Get famous first for God's sake. and so look, beyond that gig that was the catalyst where you just really made a fool of yourself on stage and that was the turning point for you. Were
Matt: Mm, mm.
Tanaya: there any other trial by fire gigs or shows that really called on those same virtues of humility, temperance, you know, whatever you want to call it to get
Matt: Well humility.
Tanaya: yourself out of that.
Matt: Sure. Humility, yes. and it didn't get me out of this situation, but it allowed me to reflect on the situation. I did very early on in my stand up career, I was offered a gig at a notoriously tough room in Manchester. And I was quite new. I was telling some of the other comics, I've got this 15 minutes at this gig. And they're like, careful, that's tough. That's a tough room. And I worked myself up into a lather about it. And I walked on stage, and for some reason, well, because of what I'd heard and I put on this sort of character, which was tough, Matt, sweary Matt. And it wasn't me. And you know. People will often say to comedians, is heckling the worst thing that can happen? Heckling's not the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing that can happen is what happened to me, which is cold indifference, where after two minutes an audience goes, Nah, I don't like this guy, and they just start talking to each other. But the the humility comes in because I I at that stage I I'd had 10 years of, you know, theater work under my belt, and I was able to kind of
Tanaya: no. Well was at the point after
Matt: after crying for a a few hours, work out where it had
Tanaya: out.
Matt: all gone wrong and I realized that I was a fraud. that wasn't me and I I've I've learnt that comedy audiences particularly, they will forgive a lot, even not being that funny, if they like you and if they think you're genuine. And so I made a promise to myself in that moment, like, if I'm gonna die on my ass on stage, I'm gonna do it being me, not not trying to be someone else. So that was a great lesson, but it it hurt.
Tanaya: Yeah, and look, I think it's true of any profession, any line of work, whether it's, teaching a class of some kind, being a door-to-door salesman, whatever, it's the authenticity, that the
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: heart to heart connection that is truly the magnetic force, right?
Matt: what else is there? I mean at the end of the day, particularly as a comedian,
Tanaya: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Matt: we're all doing the same joke. We're all talking
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: about the same thing. the only thing I have that is unique is is myself. because the material in and of itself, yes, you come up with hopefully clever and different and funny little twists on the same topics, but it's only me that that can be different. It's it's so so
Tanaya: Yeah, that's good.
Matt: to be someone else, you're really shooting yourself in the foot.
Tanaya: Now, traditionally, comedy has always challenged boundaries and it's said things that polite society wouldn't say. But
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: today it's very different out there in comedy land. The world of comedy is not what it used to be. Comedians don't have as much freedom of speech anymore, do they?
Matt: Well, no probably not. It's funny because people will put all sorts of stuff up on social media, all kinds of opinions. But if you want to be a working comic, most of the time you have to try and navigate your way through all of that. it is an interesting one. Forever and a day, the comedic character has been the truth teller. You know, you think about King Lear and the Fool. He's the only one that can tell this King who's is in all kinds of mental distress. He's the only one that can tell him the truth, and he's the only one that the king will listen to. So that idea of the comic highlighting or putting a light into dark corners in a humorous way so it doesn't feel like a lecture has always been a really important part of the job. you think of shows like you know, MASH showing the Korean War so brilliantly with those humorous moments and then bang. something terrible war like happened and and so you were shaken out of it again. So it's always been that way. And and of course we have entered a point in the performing well in the world where if someone takes offense and if someone chooses to and has the tools to highlight that offence in public, you know, you can be cancelled or you can certainly lose work and be vilified online by lots of people. So that's scary. I mean, I certainly don't seek to offend anyone. I'm just trying to make people laugh. But I'm sure at times when you're in the moment, things have come out of my mouth that possibly I wouldn't have said had I had the time to think about it. But as a comedian you've got to take that step of I don't want to edit myself. So I have to take this risk. And I'm not even what you would call an edgy comedian. So those that do go down those paths have got much thicker skin than I. and I guess, today it can be really difficult. Again, if if you're the in the realms of Dave Chappelle and Ricky Gervais, where you don't need the the three hundred dollar gig on a on a Friday night in Fremantle, that's fine.
Tanaya: You know, I and really five forty five feet. well when you perform two things, you need to get three. Yeah. So I'm just
Matt: But when you're a working comedian, you need to keep getting booked. And s and at the end of the day, you know, clubs don't just even if they love you and know that it wasn't your fault and wish it was different, it's just they're just like I can't do it, mate. It's just not worth the heat for me. And you know, so that's where it gets quite difficult.
Tanaya: Hmm. So look, jumping topics. Not so much comedy. Acting.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Tanaya: Acting is often seen from the outside as this quite glamorous profession. But you know, having l having lived with it.
Matt: For those on the video.
Tanaya: Having lived with you for many years now, the reality is quite different for many. So
Matt: Sure.
Tanaya: there are long stretches of uncertainty, there are constant auditions, there's constant rejection.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: and you know, one thing I've really admired about you is once you go and do an audition. you just put it behind you and you forget about it and if something comes of that wonderful. But I'm sure there are many actors out there who don't have that skill, who are waiting by the phone and you know, beyond the work, beyond the glitter. The resilience that actors need to survive in the industry. it must be so hard for so many dealing with rejection after rejection.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: so what has a career in the performing arts asked of you personally?
Matt: Well, let me just say that progress, not perfection, right? And and certainly for me, although I really do try to forget about things once I've done them, to give them out to the universe and whatever will be will be. Of course I don't always succeed in that. And you know, there are roles that I think, gee, I'd love to get that. There was one recently, which I've been on I hadn't heard anything for months and months and months and you know, I found out the other day that I didn't get it. Yeah, no one bothered to tell me. and you know, those sorts of things can get you down a little bit. But I I I honestly don't know what else I can do. I honestly feel like this is what I was put on the planet to do. And I I wish I you know, I was getting all of the work as every actor would be thinking right now. but I this is what I do and this is what I've wanted to do since I was fifteen years old, since I did my first audition at the Garrick Theatre in Guildford here in Perth and did the Rainmaker. And I knew and and there's never been a moment that I didn't think I wanted to do this. So that's a gift and as I said earlier
Tanaya: So obviously and as it's good,
Matt: so many great adventures.
Tanaya: so you play.
Matt: But yeah, it's tough. It's tough. And of course, you know, when one has a family that I that I do now, you feel emasculated because you can't pay the rent. You know, it's difficult. You have to do jobs that you don't want to do. so yes, it is. It it's all of those things. But at the end
Tanaya: so yes, you need to it's all the best so
Matt: of the day There's nothing else I can do. There's nothing else I want to do. And so I have to
Tanaya: There's an added like booking that kind of stuff that's going to be aware.
Matt: find my peace with all of that.
Tanaya: And I guess the wonderful thing about a career in acting is that there is no retirement date. As long as you keep learning your lines and you're able to speak reasonably, eloquently,
Matt: is that there is no retirement date as long as you keep learning your lines and and you're able to to reasonably eloquently.
Tanaya: you can act right up until your final days. And so hopefully all the budding writers and filmmakers will continue to write roles for elderly senior citizens.
Matt: Well, I mean that and that that is my that is you talk about a five, ten year plan. My plan is to stay alive long enough that all of my competitors have died off.
Tanaya: yes, so look, we haven't really spoken about radio much. and I feel like we should just just briefly
Matt: Okay.
Tanaya: touch on that for a minute. So what did radio teach you that acting and stand-up didn't?
Matt: well what it taught me was to be brief. radio, particularly commercial radio, you've got a very limited amount of time. And predominantly my job on Mixed Ninety Four point five was doing sketches and songs a lot of the time. And I think when I first started they would often be too long. and I learnt that get in, get out, ninety seconds, leave wanting more. Our dear old friend at the comedy lounge, John McAllister, always said to me, you know, no one's ever complained to him that the show went too short. If they've had a good time, they they're coming back. But you make people e you know, you might have four great comedians and then one of them's a bit rough and It's like, all of a sudden people are looking at their watch and whatnot. So being brief, being punchy, that's definitely
Tanaya: Yeah,
Matt: what radio taught me. And I I'd love the medium of radio ever since I was a little boy. I used to get the little transistor radio under my Duna in bed and listen to the BBC World Service to get the English soccer results and you feel like someone's talking to you. It's so intimate. It's such an incredible medium. And I know podcasts serve that as well. And and I'm a huge avid consumer of podcasts because of that. I love the medium. I love the idea of someone talking to you and it's as if it's only you and and that joyous thing of feeling like you're part of someone's someone's day. And and that's what we were. I you know,
Tanaya: That sure might have a
Matt: People were genuinely pleased to hear us. We we were sort
Tanaya: file to someone someone.
Matt: of like you turn on the radio or you your alarm goes off, the radio goes on. Pete, Matt, and Kimber are on. it's okay.
Tanaya: Hmm. Well, as brief as it was over those eight years on Brecke Radio, you did gain some very, very loyal listeners. And I remember
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: when you left seeing on Facebook many listeners writing in saying, What happened to Maddie? you know, you had so many listeners that were very unhappy. when you left and I'm sure that they are missing you very much. And so I guess my next question would be, Do you think this is the end of radio for you? Would you love to do another stint somewhere?
Matt: absolutely. As I said, I love the medium and and it's the great survivor. It really is. People will always listen to the radio. And you know, I love listening to that sort of long form conversation stuff that the ABC do so well. and yeah, I would love to do more radio.
Tanaya: Yeah, so talking about getting some more work on radio or wherever it may be, I wanted to ask you as you know, you're now at the tender age of, well, let's just say you're on the side of making more noise every time you sit down or you you you get out of bed in the morning.
Matt: Let's let's just say that I'm on to my third free poo test.
Tanaya: So are you finding that the auditions and roles that you're being offered these days are changing? are the auditions that you're being offered markedly different than say 10, 20 years ago?
Matt: for sure, of course. Yeah. I mean I'm very much now in that age bracket of the dad or who knows, maybe even getting a little further than that. But but again, you gotta go with that. You've got to find grace with that. And as as you alluded to earlier, that's the great thing about being an actor is that you can keep playing Or I mean imagine if I get to I hopefully I do get to a ripe old age and I can look back on a career where I've got to play so many different age groups, so many different people at different points in their life. You know, what a gift.
Tanaya: What a beautiful show reel that would make. look.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. You can play it at my funeral.
Tanaya: Well, look, I personally love you as the villain. I loved you in Reckless. I think you play those, villainous mafiosa roles particularly well. And I think I'd love to see you in more of those roles.
Matt: I'm happy to take those roles.
Tanaya: May we manifest, may you be put forth for villainous roles at some point for films that are being shot, maybe in the fabulous new Perth film studios in Whiteman. I believe there's an open day coming up on the 11th and 12th of September for a tour of the new film studios.
Matt: Great. Great. Maybe I'll just walk in there and start doing a monologue and see if someone gives me a job.
Tanaya: Well look, we've arrived at our final two questions that we want to ask every guest. So here we go. If you could go back, not to erase the life that you've lived, but to meet your younger self with the knowledge that you have now, would you do anything differently? And what would you do differently?
Matt: Well I definitely tell myself to not pick up that cigarette. and I would have told myself to just temper my behavior a little bit. Because as I said, I I I don't wanna look back with regret because I did what I did at the time and I was just trying to get through this crazy life like everybody else. But in my in my dark moments when I'm alone at night or, you know, when you're asleep and I'm I'm thinking, I do think about what maybe I might have achieved had I put a little bit more of that energy into creating other than partying. But that's just not the way it turned out. So I would probably suggest that.
Tanaya: Okay, so finally, how would you like to see the performing arts, or maybe on a more personal level, how would you like to see Matt Diktinsky evolve?
Matt: Well look, I'm evolving the way I'm evolving and sometimes I get it right and sometimes I get it wrong. But I guess the definition of evolution is that you won't really know that until you can look back in the rear view mirror to see if that was the right path. But in terms of the industry, you know, everyone's freaking out about AI and I understand why, because we can become completely useless in a heartbeat. people can make music, they can do voiceovers very well. you know, human beings are rapidly losing work to AI in in every sector of the world. But I'm hoping that that will lead to a slight revolution where people are going, no, no, I I want to know that it's a human being. And that may be the boom time for live performance that has sort of been dying over the years. You know, we don't see a lot of venues with live music. you know, perhaps the theater audiences are are are sort of the same people that have always gone to the theater. And maybe people will turn around and go, No, I'm sick of all this computer generated stuff. I want to go and see a real life human being on stage and know that that is a person. and and
Tanaya: Yeah.
Matt: not an avatar. And if that's the the sort of blowback to the AI revolution, then great.
Tanaya: Yeah. Well look, I think that's a wrap. sadly, because we've had too many balls in the air lately, we weren't able to get this particular episode out in time to promote the diary of Anne Frank. But where can people
Matt: Hmm.
Tanaya: find you elsewhere in the coming weeks?
Matt: I think I've got some gigs coming up, some stand-up gigs. I think there's one on the eighth at the Subiaco Art Center.
Tanaya: That's okay, your personal assistant has that information. You are indeed hosting the WA Comedy All-Stars coming up during Comedy Week on Saturday, the eighth of August at 8
Matt: Yes. There you go.
Tanaya: 30 PM at the Subiaco Art Centre. and the programme also features my fabulous cousin, Simone Springer, who we cannot
Matt: brilliant.
Tanaya: wait to welcome onto the podcast in the coming weeks. We'll be talking to Simone about the evolving tradition of comedy and politics, because of course she ran for the Greens. not long ago, so Simone's on that lineup, so I'll definitely have to make an extra effort to go to the Subi Arts Center for that one. So tickets are available for that through WAComedyweek.com. And what else do you have coming up this year?
Matt: there's other gigs. I I don't know.
Tanaya: Look, I guess I guess like all podcasters, we should leave some links in the show notes.
Matt: Yeah, that's the best way to do it, yes.
Tanaya: So we'll leave some links in the show notes, including some information for our great Southern Renewal Retreat that we're hosting in Denmark, Western Australia in April next year from the 15th to the 20th of April. We still have some spaces on that. We haven't really started advertising that yet, but we have filled a couple of spots already, and we like to keep the numbers very small for this. So if anyone feels like they just need some green. Green therapy, some Rainbow Coast therapy. Shoot an email through to connect at mindbodycollective.com.au. And of course, Matt, you do have something else. You have a super cool children's book coming out very soon that you have co-written with one of your BFFs, Mango Call.
Matt: Mm.
Tanaya: Are we allowed to have a little sneak peek of what it's about, or are you keeping that super top secret up your sleeve?
Matt: I'm keeping it ke keeping it under the sleeve. Top secret, top secret. But it'll be excellent.
Tanaya: I have seen a sneak peek and it it's pretty pretty damn good. so apart from that, thank you, darling husband, for letting
Matt: Thank you.
Tanaya: me interview you today. you may submit your invoice.
Matt: Okay. All right, I'll go and put the dinner on.
Tanaya: So until next time, may we keep questioning, may we remain curious, may we be less certain, and may we make space for traditions to evolve, remembering that in this dualistic world of light, dark, sun, moon, hot, cold, yin yang, reverence and reinvention can indeed sit peacefully side by side if we allow it.
Matt: Hear here.
Tanaya: Here. Thank you.
Matt: Thank you. Bye for that. Bye.
