Hotel Manager: How Different Ethnic Groups Use Hotels

David Lorentzen is BACK—this time to share his behind-the-scenes experience as a Swedish hotel manager whose family has run hotels for over a decade.

David gives a rare, unfiltered look at cultural differences he has observed as a hotelier: which groups of guests make staff smile and which ones create the biggest headaches. He walks through the three most difficult categories of guests his hotels have hosted — Russian oligarchs, Chinese tour groups, and certain Indian families — with specific, firsthand stories about room damage, cooking in rooms, overcrowding, and the economics of hospitality.

The conversation then shifts to a much larger topic: the refugee housing industry in Sweden. David recounts the multimillion-dollar offers hotels received to house asylum seekers (especially young Afghan males), why his family turned them down, the insurance and property-value consequences, and the two competing integration strategies Sweden has tried (spreading people out vs. concentrating them). He also discusses literacy rates, cultural distance, and why some groups integrate far more easily than others.

You can find David Lorentzon's various accounts and posts here: https://linktr.ee/davidlorentzon

Episode Transcript

And where I basically shared the story about about what what actually happens when the Swedish, I think it’s called emergency service in English, rescue service. They gave us a phone call, and they said that, would you like to house 30 Afghans? And you’ll get paid at the time at that time about $320 per night per child and do that year round. Now he received 30 of them. Okay. That’s like, what, 90,090 thousand dollars a day. Crazy. Yeah. It it turns it it basically your most profitable day becomes every day of the year.

Malcolm Collins [0:42]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [0:43]:

And most of it is profit.

Simone Collins [0:45]:

And it’s

David Lorentzen [0:45]:

hard to

Simone Collins [0:46]:

say no. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [0:47]:

You’re basically earning millions of dollars to accept mostly male between the age of 14 and 26 Afghan boys Afghan males.

Simone Collins [0:58]:

Wow.

David Lorentzen [0:58]:

Now this village has about 350 people.

Speaker 4 [1:02]:

Would you like to know more?

Simone Collins [1:04]:

Okay. Hello, everyone. I’m so excited for this. we’ll say more off the record, episode in which we interview David Lorenzen about his experience, with different cultural groups from the perspective of a hotel manager. I will say that when we have worked in the travel industry, we’ve been exposed to some really stark cultural differences, even just from, like, working in different parts of the world. And definitely from working with different groups as travelers, it’s kind of amazing. I think we’re mostly raised to believe that everyone’s kind of the same. Everyone does the same thing. We all, like, get up and we eat breakfast, and it’s all the same. Like, it’s broadly, like, cereal and croissants and fruit. And, like, we don’t realize that people actually live very different lives, have very different habits, and that becomes very clear when you get to see a sampling of people go through a specific pace. David Lorenzen is able to speak to this. He’s gonna explain to us why, and then we’re just gonna I I would love to dive into some things that you’ve observed about different behavioral patterns or or habits you’ve noticed from different groups that you’ve been exposed to through the nature of some of your work.

David Lorentzen [2:08]:

Yeah. So about thirteen years ago, my family decided to buy a hotel that was for sale, and we had never ever done anything like this. We my parents were from the tech industry, basically.

Malcolm Collins [2:20]:

Oh, wow.

David Lorentzen [2:21]:

We wanted to change in lifestyle, something healthier than sitting in an office all day. And we bought it when I was 18 years old. So for my entire adult life, I’ve had I’ve been deeply involved with running hotels in the tourism industry.

Malcolm Collins [2:36]:

Mhmm.

David Lorentzen [2:36]:

And I’m a hotel manager. And the reason I can talk about this is because it’s a family owned business, and they can’t fire me. So I got freedom of speech.

Malcolm Collins [2:45]:

That helps. So

David Lorentzen [2:47]:

and I do have to say that, you know, 90% of all our guests in Sweden here are, let’s say, Germanic people. Germans, Austrians, Dutch, Scandinavians, they are wonderful people. They do incredible they really do set the standard with like, I I get happy when whenever I see that they cleaned after themselves to make our jobs easier.

Malcolm Collins [3:10]:

Malcolm, what Simone does, and I get so mad at her.

Simone Collins [3:12]:

He gets super mad. I’m, like, stripping the sheets. I’m trying to clean up. I’m putting all the towels in a, like, folded pile. And he’s like, what are you doing? I’m just being correct, Malcolm.

David Lorentzen [3:21]:

Yes. You’re being correct. And I do the same thing because I I wanna be nice to the cleaners. Yes. But but as we were talking to each other, it says, okay. I’m having a really busy time now. We have to reschedule and so on. You started mentioning, I hope the guests are good to you. So, like, yep. Yeah. We’ve had some bad people too. And I started mentioning that the worst groups we’ve ever had, the bottom three, are Russian oligarchs, Chinese tourist groups, and Indian families, which is a very

Simone Collins [3:56]:

So wild.

David Lorentzen [3:57]:

Strange group to bundle together. And I’ll go through which one do you wanna start with?

Simone Collins [4:03]:

Let’s start. What surprised me the most, because Chinese tourists are kind of famous for being nightmares, especially, like, certain generations of Chinese tourists. But what I’ve not heard about is Russian oligarchs ever being a problem. You’d assume that they would just kind of, like, breeze through and barely stay in the room or something. What’s going on there?

David Lorentzen [4:23]:

Yeah. So we had Russian oligarchs a couple of times, and the moment this has happened multiple times. The moment they come in, they check-in, they check they see the room, they’re not happy with it, they come back, and they try to bribe us. So, like Okay. We’re willing to pay triple the price to get your best room. I’m sorry, sir. The hotel is fully booked. We’re not gonna kick out our guests. So and they insist upon it. No. No. No. We we want we’re paying triple now in cash. And it’s like, okay. No, sir. We’re not doing that. Then the neck the next problem is that over and over again, they party hard in the room. They shoot champagne bottles all over the place. They regularly smoke cigarettes and cigars in the room, which they’re not supposed to do. We tell people that it’s it’s illegal to smoke indoors. So whenever we go into the room after they’ve checked out, it’s like, oh my gosh. It’s a terrible smell. There’s mess everywhere.

Malcolm Collins [5:25]:

Oh, no.

David Lorentzen [5:26]:

And when you have that kind of cigarette smell in a hotel room, you can’t give it out to the next guest for the next three days because you have to open the windows. You have to make sure that the air quality goes up again, and you basically run into this really serious problem that, okay. We’re just now gonna get really bad reviews because we can’t get people this room. We’re gonna have to say, no. We can’t give you this room that you booked. Gonna have to refund and get bad reviews as a result. So even if they were to pay a whole lot of extra money for that service, the cost in the long run is repeatedly bad reviews on booking.com, on other websites that you’re basically yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It’s huge. And we are, you know, really high rating. We care a lot about it. So it just means that it’s bad business to deal with Russian oligarchs. And ever since the war in Ukraine began, we’ve not had them because

Simone Collins [6:22]:

Oh, good.

David Lorentzen [6:24]:

There there’s been a bunch of restrictions on these people that makes it very difficult for them to move around in the EU compared to before.

Malcolm Collins [6:33]:

So So they they they like to I mean, it must be a higher end hotel if you’re getting Russian oligarchs coming. Yeah. They they come to the your country to, what, to party? To do what? Like Yeah.

Simone Collins [6:43]:

Why are they there? Are you in the countryside? You’re in the city. You don’t have to name names or anything.

David Lorentzen [6:46]:

No. It’s a middle stop. So we are in a in a strategic location where we are convenient middle stop for a lot of travelers. So it doesn’t have to be high end luxury. It just has to be the most convenient middle stop, and that’s how we encounter these people. So we’ve had, you know, the Lotus Club, the Ferrari Club, the Amphibious Boat, Car Club, and a bunch other stuff.

Simone Collins [7:10]:

Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. People wait. Club.

David Lorentzen [7:12]:

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There was a bunch of Amphibious Boat, a car club that came to our hotel, from across the lake.

Simone Collins [7:19]:

Oh, so they, like

David Lorentzen [7:21]:

We have a beach.

Simone Collins [7:21]:

Across the lake.

David Lorentzen [7:23]:

Yeah. They they drove up on the beach.

Simone Collins [7:25]:

That must have been really fun to see.

David Lorentzen [7:27]:

Yeah. That was awesome. That was absolutely awesome. It’s like yeah. So we’ve had a bunch of these various really cool car clubs that has billionaires and millionaires in them. So but I do have to say that the rich people in the West, you know, they behave really nice. They behave really well. It’s just this particular group that seems to think that once you have a sufficient amount of money, ethics, being nice, no longer really relevant anymore. Like, you you can just pay to be an a*****e, and it’s fine.

Simone Collins [8:00]:

Yeah. But, like yeah. I guess no money no amount of money really makes up for the fact that you you will have to take cleaning fluid to walls and, like, scrub the sticky champagne off of that.

Malcolm Collins [8:11]:

Like, doesn’t even if you’re paying somebody else to do that, Simone.

Simone Collins [8:15]:

Still sucks for that person getting paid to do it, I guess, unless they wouldn’t

David Lorentzen [8:18]:

otherwise But also the bookings right before that because we have back to back bookings.

Simone Collins [8:22]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [8:23]:

So if you if you can’t clean the room fast, you’re in trouble. So

Simone Collins [8:29]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [8:29]:

So that’s the reason why I say, okay. All Russian oligarchs, not good for business.

Simone Collins [8:35]:

Yeah. Give them the worst room. Give them, like, the utility closet and be like, oh, I’m sorry. There was a mistake with your booking.

David Lorentzen [8:42]:

Yeah. But, you know, regular Russians are fine, you know, because they can’t afford to behave like this.

Simone Collins [8:46]:

Okay. That’s very interesting. Okay. Alright. So Russian oligarchs. Yikes. Yes. Okay. Chinese tourists. Are these so first off, because what what we’ve heard is that there’s this, like, particular generation of, like, older Chinese tourists who grew up at a certain time in communist China where they were just sort of given, like, carte blanche to be terrible people who then, like, are famous for going on, like, boat trips. They don’t know how to swim. They’re told not to get off the boat. They jump off the boat. They drown. Like, that kind of level of pathologically insane. And then it’s mostly that type of tourist. But are you seeing also younger people being problem hotel stayers? Or I don’t know. What have you seen with Chinese tourists?

David Lorentzen [9:28]:

So here’s a I have to make a very clear distinction. We we need to emphasize it’s specifically Chinese tourist groups through these companies because the kind of people the kind of Chinese people that use these tourist groups are those that don’t speak English. So if, for example, a couple a Chinese couple were to travel on their own, then it’s basically guaranteed that they know English. And if they have studied English, all those English studies, you also learn about Western ethics, Western etiquette. That’s just a part of learning the language in English is that you learn about how Western societies work. Now if you have never studied English, you haven’t even studied western etiquette.

Simone Collins [10:12]:

Oh, and so this allows you, I mean, maybe through very uncomfortable means, to understand what the default etiquette is in China because Yes. Most of us don’t know Chinese etiquette. We haven’t traveled, like, into the deep rural links of of China where that exists. Right? Yes. What are you seeing?

David Lorentzen [10:31]:

So we we basically the our entire tourist region, basically, after a couple of years, said no to any tourist group that is organized from China.

Simone Collins [10:43]:

Like, had stopped met at your, like, hotel club meeting and were like, these guys, we’re not doing

David Lorentzen [10:47]:

this No. No. No. It was all independently done because everyone had bad experiences. There was no there was no essential communication on this. It was it just happened naturally. So what happened is that with these Chinese tourist groups is that, okay, when they check-in, none of them speak English. You can’t communicate with them. Oh. So you can’t tell them instructions. You can’t tell them it all has to go through the mediator, the translator. So, basically, it becomes, like, herd mentality. And the first thing that they started asking for, do you have rice? It’s like, no. This is you came this you came all this way to Sweden to eat rice. It’s like, no. We don’t have rice. So, like, okay. And hours later, we start noticing that our metal pots are going missing. And then we realized that they have stolen the pots to boil rice on the floor in the hotel rooms. And they had

Simone Collins [11:48]:

that Where are they getting heat sources to boil the rice?

David Lorentzen [11:50]:

They they had the they had the other things besides the pot.

Simone Collins [11:55]:

So they had they they’re bringing, like, the hot pot, like, base.

David Lorentzen [11:58]:

Yeah. Yeah. They’re having, like, a a a cooker plate or something like that that they bring with plates. Them. Yes. And then they we noticed that our metal pots and kettles went missing in other kitchen equipment, and they and we realized that breakfast and lunch and dinner was surprisingly thin. Like, there’s not a not all of them are here.

Simone Collins [12:21]:

They’re not showing up for the the

David Lorentzen [12:23]:

included meals. Yeah. Yeah. So imagine, like, oh, they’re supposed to be 40. Now there are only 30 of them. So, like, where’s the other 10? Oh. And what we realized is that, oh, we found eventually found some of the pots in the hotel rooms after they checked out. So, like, oh, and then we see in the pot that they have boiled rice in it because it can get stuck. It leaves them walking out.

Simone Collins [12:47]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [12:48]:

Yeah. So real also, that’s why they didn’t need our food. They were just buying rice, and they were boiling rice on the floor in the rooms. Some were some some preferred noodles. And what we noticed is that when they were eating in the restaurant

Simone Collins [13:05]:

I’m sorry.

David Lorentzen [13:06]:

Then they because they were the majority in the restaurant, the big majority, they started behaving like they do in China, and they started loudly farting and

Simone Collins [13:18]:

Oh, no.

David Lorentzen [13:19]:

Yeah. Yeah. Barfing. You know, like, you know, out of the throat. You know?

Simone Collins [13:25]:

On purpose?

David Lorentzen [13:26]:

Yeah. Just openly farting and barfing through the mouth in the restaurant just repeatedly over and over again. Apparently, it’s more socially acceptable in China to just, while you’re eating, not hold it in, and it was causing problems and disturbances for the rest of the guests.

Simone Collins [13:50]:

Presumably yeah. Feeling like

David Lorentzen [13:54]:

this is this is deeply uncomfortable to hear this group of 30 Chinese people all starting the starting the trumpets. Let’s just call that.

Simone Collins [14:05]:

Why well, I mean, dude, they’re turning to rice because something is not working with their digestive tracts about Europe. It is which actually makes a lot of sense. I mean, there’s a lot of lactose intolerance in China. Right?

David Lorentzen [14:16]:

So Now speaking of lactose intolerance, they were buying the pastries. They were buying

Simone Collins [14:21]:

Oh, okay. I would think so. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [14:24]:

For the pictures. They they took pictures of eating it, then they threw it out. So they didn’t even digest the pastries and the various lactose desserts and meals. They just liked it seems like the the main thing that they were concerned about with these kind of trips is to take the best pictures possible. And the actual experience of doing something didn’t really matter because all of the joy was in telling the about the experience once you have returned home.

Malcolm Collins [14:58]:

This is the status of having had the experience, not the experience itself.

David Lorentzen [15:02]:

Yes. And we noticed this because we have a beach. We have kayaks and canoes.

Simone Collins [15:05]:

Oh, yes. It’s pretty.

David Lorentzen [15:08]:

Yeah. And my brother is, like, the kayak instructor, and he’s supposed to be also their guide out in the water. And he got insulted and felt, you know, like he didn’t really matter because all they wanted was to go a little bit out in the water, have the picture taken, and then come back in.

Simone Collins [15:25]:

Oh. Oh.

David Lorentzen [15:28]:

So they didn’t actually want the experience. They were afraid of the water too.

Malcolm Collins [15:31]:

They’re buying their food. They’re not eating the food. They’re getting in

Simone Collins [15:34]:

the kayak. They’re not staying in the kayak.

David Lorentzen [15:36]:

Yes.

Malcolm Collins [15:37]:

I mean, I I love that it is the in state of influencer world eventually realizing that you don’t actually like going to a beach that fast.

Simone Collins [15:45]:

In a sense, it’s, like, really based because they’re like, look. I’m not having fun. I don’t want the food. You’re not having fun.

Malcolm Collins [15:52]:

I just wanna stay inside and play video games and watch Chinese movies. Right? Like, I’m not I’m not actually interested in sharing. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [15:59]:

I I just wanna stay inside and boil rice.

Malcolm Collins [16:01]:

Yeah. So much of travel is actually that without the baseness. This this gives me a degree of respect because of the number of people. I don’t believe that many people actually like beaches. Beaches are incredibly boring. Like, the the people who think, like, having lived on beaches for a large firm, there there’s just not that much to do at the beach. And it a lot of it is gross and sandy and or requires a huge amount of time like scuba diving. Oh, god. You know? So I I think a lot of travel is just it’s just that. It’s just in China, they they just cut out all the rest.

Simone Collins [16:39]:

Yeah. Well, they they don’t care about performatively enjoying it. Whereas I think that what we’ve seen more in our social circles is that you have to, like, pretend to like it. That, like, it’s not a complete performance if you’ve not been like, I just had the best time and, like, we’re gonna sit through this twelve hour tour, and then we’re gonna enjoy every moment and pay rapt attention and and look at every single museum plaque. And and I feel like that is an even more punishing version of performative travel than this Chinese version. I kinda like that they’re like, look. This is gonna suck. Okay? We’re gonna, like, walk to the top of Everest. It’s we’re gonna vomit. We’re gonna fart. And we’re gonna we’re gonna, like, lose brain cells, but, like, we’re getting to the top.

Malcolm Collins [17:21]:

No. They’re doing it the right way. They don’t go to the top of Everest. They just go to Everest. They just just to take a few pictures, and then they say, I was at the top. Make a little AI image.

David Lorentzen [17:32]:

You know, you have the stereotype with, like, these older Asian guys and women with this funny bag in the front with a camera in it, like this kinda old school camera.

Malcolm Collins [17:42]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [17:43]:

Yeah. So, you know, it was it wasn’t even for social media. It was just for these, you know, paper pictures. Right? Yeah. Do. So that they were just not there for the actual experience. The experience that they enjoy was telling it talking about it at home. Oh my god. I love that

Malcolm Collins [18:01]:

it’s not even for social media. It’s to show off to other people. And they’re the stupid social circles that don’t matter at all.

David Lorentzen [18:09]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you know, if you were, you know, ten years ago in your fifties, you were not having Instagram or social media or whatever, Alibaba, whatever they have in, back in China. So, you know, most it’s just when this specific combination happens when you have a bunch of people that have not learned English and as a result, even studied Western etiquette. Mhmm. They come in this tourist group where you can’t even communicate with them. We were trying to hold these people accountable. Who stole the pots? Oh. And you can’t even talk to them. They don’t understand what you’re saying.

Simone Collins [18:46]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [18:47]:

So you need a, like, an Asian mediator, and the mediator didn’t feel like he was cooperating at all with us, letting them get away with it. So you just realize, okay. For us to this is ruining the experience for the rest of our guests. For us, we are we don’t want to be inauthentic. We wanna be the authentic place where you come for the experience and not the photos. So what all all of the hotels in our area did was that, okay. We’re not doing business with Chinese tourist group. Now Chinese can still come. We’re not discriminating in that sense, just not these companies.

Simone Collins [19:23]:

Just not the tour buses. Yeah. You’re not gonna take Yes. Not the tour buses. Work with a tour operator and not accept that. Exactly.

David Lorentzen [19:29]:

Because that’s that’s when you get the Chinese people that don’t speak English.

Simone Collins [19:35]:

Yeah. That’s so interesting. Because also the thing is is I I traveled in rural China a little bit, and I went to a, like, tourist trap destination in, like, more rural China outside Changsha. There was this national forest park called Songjiajie that looks like what’s that movie with Avatar? It looks like that, like, with these craggy mountains. Yeah. And it did bring in droves of Chinese buses, tour buses, and I stayed in, like, a Chinese hotel resort when I was there. Then I’m trying to think of, like, how how does it work there for them? I mean, I think the big thing is that it’s it’s food they’re familiar with that they’re eating. And, also, in the actual Forest Park itself, they had it set up such that you could just take a lot of Instagram photos, but not actually walk into the park. So you could get the full like, everything in while never really

Malcolm Collins [20:32]:

getting any of this in Korea that gets a lot of Chinese tourists. Do you remember in Korea where there was, like, the arboretum we went to with the Chinese people, and they had all those places for, like, pictures for, like, Instagram

Simone Collins [20:45]:

and stuff? Yeah. Instagram. It was

Malcolm Collins [20:46]:

just Yes. Like a line from, like, one photo location to another photo location. That’s the way

Simone Collins [20:53]:

you can good tourist destination, you need to, like, be walking distance from the parking lot. Have all the photo ops right there. Lots of of of actively, like, friendly, like, familiar Chinese food, and then and, like, actual legit Chinese food and then, like, just also in Cambridge. So in Cambridge, there’s this famous bridge that’s in this poem that everyone’s, like, forced to learn in primary school in China.

David Lorentzen [21:18]:

Right. Right.

Simone Collins [21:19]:

I know. Everyone wants to see it when they go. But what’s interesting is that as a student when I was studying in Cambridge, I almost never saw the Chinese tourists, and that’s because they never stayed in Cambridge. They just went to that one freaking bridge, like, got off the bus, watched to the bridge, got back on, and, like, literally saw nothing else of this historic city. And it’s amazing, like, libraries and sites and everything else. And I think that’s the key thing. So, like, I but I like it. It’s kinda based. Like, I I having gone on, like, all these really performative trips where, like, we we we got the the shot, but then we kept going. It was like it was like having a being an actor and, like, being on set, but no one’s filming. And they’re like, keep acting. Keep going. And you’re like, but wait. You’re not paying me anymore, and no one’s filming anything. And I feel like they’re like, camera’s off. Great. Like, let’s get out of here. This sucks, but, like, let’s you know, I’m hungry, and I wanna eat something that’s not gross European. I

Malcolm Collins [22:20]:

get it. I get it.

David Lorentzen [22:21]:

Yeah. Yeah. Now the third group on my list are Indian specific some specific Indian families. We’ve had a couple of them where okay. They come, they check-in, and they book, let’s say, two double bedrooms. So they okay. That that okay. Then there are four people. Right?

Simone Collins [22:40]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [22:41]:

But their vehicle is huge. And we noticed, okay. They’re having a great time. They’re eating dinner. But then some of our workers said, like, there is more Indians coming from the car into the hotel and back out again. And the locals were reporting that, hey. There’s a bunch of Indian, like, people squatting on the side of the road out here. Like, people squatting, like, Indians squatting on the side of the road in the middle of Sweden in a tiny homogeneous village.

Simone Collins [23:10]:

Physically, that’s squatting. Yeah. Yeah. Just just hanging out.

David Lorentzen [23:13]:

Sitting sitting on the side of the road just doing nothing. And we were known and we were beginning to put all of the pieces together and realize, wait a minute. This is not a family of four people. This is a family of 12. And they’re only paying for four, and then the rest are sleeping on the floor in the bedroom. Oh. And we’ve had this happen multiple times. So, I mean, talk about the the parents and one of their oldest sons and some other is enjoying a lovely time in the restaurant, eating hamburger, eating

Simone Collins [23:54]:

So wait. No one else like, so they they’re they’re really trying to keep up the artifice. They’re like, no. We’re four. Oh.

David Lorentzen [23:59]:

Yes. We’re four. So, like, you’re you’re four people, and they’re enjoying a lovely time in the restaurant eating dinner. Oh. And the rest of their kids are squatting on the side of the road out there living on the streets. And I realized I’m like, oh my gosh. Talk about Indian dad of the year award.

Simone Collins [24:18]:

Well, but they still got to go to Sweden, which

David Lorentzen [24:21]:

Exactly. This is this is the funny joke. I mean, you’re giving them two Indian life lessons. Not only do the kids learn young how to scam and get a lower price, but you’re also teaching them how to live on the streets in any environment.

Simone Collins [24:35]:

Right? The streets of Sweden, unless in winter.

Malcolm Collins [24:38]:

I don’t know. I like the frugality. I think that’s a

Simone Collins [24:42]:

you know? I don’t really.

Malcolm Collins [24:43]:

I as a family that’s gonna have, like, 12 kids, so many, like, hotels are gonna be like, oh, we only take x many. We only take y many. So we’ll just send the rest to be on the streets.

Simone Collins [24:54]:

Yeah. You’ve given us ideas, David. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins [24:57]:

And I remember when we did that region, the food was so stupidly expensive. That’s true. Everything with us was like, I guess I’ll get something from, like, a a food vendor outside was the only thing that did. We bought hot dogs one day,

Simone Collins [25:09]:

and we’re like, well, that’s that’s all we’re gonna be

Malcolm Collins [25:12]:

able to afford. That’s $12. I remember it was $12 for the hot dog even back then.

David Lorentzen [25:17]:

Yeah. And I have witnessed this exact same behavior in Barcelona as well with the buses. So Oh. The parents would go in the front, go and distract the bus driver, and there’s usually a backdoor that you usually exit out of.

Simone Collins [25:31]:

Oh, and then get their kids on free.

David Lorentzen [25:33]:

And then the eight kids proceed to get into the bus through that backdoor while the Indian parents are distracting the driver and said that, yeah. We’re paying two people, but they’re actually, like, 10.

Simone Collins [25:46]:

Poor kids. But then again, they’re traveling at

David Lorentzen [25:49]:

which Yes. Again, you get to experience Europe for a low price. It’s like, I mean, imagine being the Indian parents. It’s like, kids, we’re going on vacation to Europe.

Malcolm Collins [25:58]:

Very pro natalist. They’re having lots of kids. They’re making it work. They’re make

David Lorentzen [26:02]:

they’re making

Simone Collins [26:02]:

it like, I can’t I cannot travel to India because I cannot deal with, like, the poverty on the streets, the like, the just the the it’s rough. And so you don’t know necessarily, like, where they’re coming from. Like, it could be that, like, they are hanging out outside at the side of the road anyway on any given night, But, like, your side of the road has the view of the lake and the kayaks, and it’s really pretty. And, like although I don’t know how they’re affording food. I couldn’t afford food in Sweden. Like, we’re we’re saving up for when we’re, like, rich,

Malcolm Collins [26:37]:

and then we’ll go to Sweden again.

David Lorentzen [26:40]:

I mean, you’re welcome to stay. We have

Simone Collins [26:42]:

It sounds like a really nice

Malcolm Collins [26:44]:

as everyone can see from this video, we’re the worst at being racist. Like, we hear racial stereotypes, we’re like, well, know, like, actually, we this in context. Like, that’s probably a good way to save money. I’d probably do that too. You know? What I find to be

Simone Collins [26:56]:

interesting, though, is, like, I I’m not I don’t think any of this is racist or biased. I think that, like, it’s interesting to learn how different cultures travel differently and also what you could learn about the the group dynamics. Because as David has pointed out, it’s not all Russians. It’s Russian oligarchs. It’s not all Chinese. It’s these specific Chinese tour buses of people. They’re clearly, like, tour operators that specialize in ultra low cost trips for Chinese people who have zero

Malcolm Collins [27:25]:

No. Hold on. Not ultra low cost because they’re choosing his hotel, which doesn’t seem to be one of the cheaper ones. It seems to be ultra processed.

Simone Collins [27:33]:

Yeah. Like, yeah, ultra processed ultra processed tour operators who are like, we will sugarcoat the entire thing and actually as the white bread of travel.

Malcolm Collins [27:41]:

They want the white bread and only the white bread of travel. The most

Simone Collins [27:45]:

processed Well, no. We we work with these tour operators that do the same thing for people living in Peru and Colombia, etcetera, where it’s like, it’s Europe, but you’ll never have to speak any other language but Spanish. It’s gonna be fine. we’re only gonna see, like, exactly these highlights, and and you you will never need to, like, walk more than 15 feet at a time and, like, that kind of thing. Yeah. And that appeals to a certain host, but it’s like that format and that that’s such an interesting thing. And then the same with, like, look, it’s not, like, an Indian couple traveling or something or, like but specifically, like, this format of Indian travel with families that I’ve never heard of before. Like, we haven’t encountered that. Well, actually, maybe we have. So here’s the thing, David. So when we ran, we’re CEOs of the travel business that we’d acquired earlier through, like, a different time in our careers, the worst scamming we were ever subject to was from Indian travel agencies that worked under ours. Like, we were a host agency, and they would buy travel through us. And we got super screwed over a couple of times. And the the reason it always was was that there would be chargebacks, credit card chargebacks, that someone would book a crap ton of flights. And then sometimes you’d even go on the flights, and then they would charge like, they’d say, oh, that was credit card fraud. And I wonder if, like, who knows? You know, like, one family that sent their, you know, group of like, their family of 12 to to Sweden used our business and then submitted credit card chargebacks. And, like, they’re they’re booking at your hotel, and they’re like, look. We’re four people, and there’s 12 of them. And they booked through our website, and they’re like, look. I will pay you, and they never pay us. And I do wonder, like, if what we noticed, at least on our part, was this clustered around family groups, And it could just be that there are specific subcommunities. Like, this isn’t all of India, but, like, there are very small groups that realize, like, oh, there’s this one small trick. And if I do it exactly this way, I can actually get a ton of money or a vacation to Europe, but, like, basically, functionally not pay for it. And I I wonder about that. It’s very interesting. I feel like in terms of innovation in fraud, there are some great minds at work in India. Innovation in fraud.

Malcolm Collins [30:09]:

Well

David Lorentzen [30:09]:

I mean, they they start teaching them young as I’ve shown with these examples. So it

Simone Collins [30:15]:

it yeah. Well, if you’re exposed to it, yeah, if you normalize to it, if, like, this is this is how we get on a bus. Right? Like, I I like, you’re not gonna be like, oh, that’s wrong. You’re gonna be like, that’s how it works. You have to distract the thing. Yeah. And and that’s I think that’s very interesting. And it’s it’s look. I mean, it it if it works, it works, and you have to develop a system that’s smarter than that. Like, when when our kids pull something over on me, I never blame them. I blame myself. Like, I shouldn’t have left that delicate thing on a table within reach of their grubby little hands because it was my fault now that it’s all broken on the floor because you don’t leave it out. But it sucks that in high trust societies, that has to happen now because presumably, you know, Sweden was nice once. There’s well, you mentioned something. Hold on, though. That, Yes. Yes. There are big training communities. Yeah. Tell tell us about these, David.

David Lorentzen [31:08]:

So, I mean, living this hotel life is it’s incredible, and it’s a healthy lifestyle. It’s a good lifestyle, decent, but it’s very difficult to make a profit. And we’ve had offers to earn millions and millions of dollars, but to turn the hotel into something very, very different, an asylum center.

Simone Collins [31:31]:

For, like, legal asylum seekers from other countries.

David Lorentzen [31:34]:

Yeah. Yeah. So back in 2015, I was a whistleblower for Stefan Molyneux YouTube channel where I broke information about the multimillion dollar refugee industry in Sweden at the time.

Simone Collins [31:50]:

Wow.

David Lorentzen [31:51]:

And where I basically shared the story about about what what actually happens when the Swedish, I think it’s called emergency service in English, rescue service. They gave us a phone call, and they said that, would you like to house 30 Afghans? And you’ll get paid at the time at that time about $320 per night per child and do that year round. Now he received 30 of them. Okay. That’s like, what, 90,090 thousand dollars a day. Crazy. Yeah. It it turns it it basically your most profitable day becomes every day of the year.

Malcolm Collins [32:34]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [32:35]:

And most of it is profit.

Simone Collins [32:36]:

And it’s

David Lorentzen [32:37]:

hard to

Simone Collins [32:37]:

say no. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [32:38]:

You’re basically earning millions of dollars to accept mostly male between the age of 14 and 26 Afghan boys Afghan males.

Simone Collins [32:49]:

Wow.

David Lorentzen [32:50]:

Now this village has about 350 people. If that if they were to receive suddenly 30 Afghans, that would be a huge demographic shift, and we would not be able to run a hotel at the same time. And at the at during that time, we were trying to sell the hotel as well, and we had these crazy offers, basically triple the value that

Simone Collins [33:18]:

Oh, because they knew. And they were like, look. I wanna do this. Okay.

David Lorentzen [33:22]:

Okay. There was a whole mania around buying hotels at the time because everyone had heard about these crazy offers from the governments that you can earn millions of dollars housing these refugees. And so when we were trying to sell the hotel for, let’s say, a million dollars, we had literally Russian mafia boss drive his Lamborghini all the way from Stockholm all the way to here. It’s a three hour drive. Come here, offer $3,000,000, triple the value. And then we ask them, okay. What what are you gonna do with it? I mean, we’re gonna turn it into a asylum center. We’re gonna accept that deal. So sorry. No. We can’t do that. We’re we’re only gonna sell it to people who actually wanna run a hotel, wanna run a restaurant, which is very difficult to find the right people. You you can’t just sell it to whoever you want.

Malcolm Collins [34:14]:

I would have sold out my community for a few million dollars. Oh my god. Yeah. I would have

Simone Collins [34:20]:

been like

Malcolm Collins [34:21]:

David, if you were lucky that you’re

Simone Collins [34:23]:

running this hotel with your family.

David Lorentzen [34:26]:

I and and this is something I noticed with when I read because this at eleven years ago, that video received a 100,000 views. And as I was reading through these anarcho capitalist Americans YouTube comments, most of them thought I’d I’d we did wrong. We should have accepted the deal. And I was like, oh my gosh. Shocked because I realized, oh, yeah. That’s because Americans because you move around so much, you don’t form these centuries long communities like we do in Europe.

Malcolm Collins [34:57]:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I wouldn’t have thought I’d just, like, go to another community that’s not fucked up with all your money now. You know? You got money now. So you can live in another small town. It’s really nice.

David Lorentzen [35:06]:

All our friends live here. Family live here. You know, if what happened is that when we received that phone call, like, a few months later, our insurance company called us and asked us if if we have accepted this deal. We had no idea how they found out about it. But somehow rumors came, and they said, if you accept this deal, we’re gonna withdraw your insurance. Because the risk of an asylum center burning down at the time was so high

Simone Collins [35:38]:

that Why?

David Lorentzen [35:39]:

Nobody wanted because when you have a bunch of Afghans move into an area, the property value of everyone living in the vicinity of that goes down to zero.

Simone Collins [35:49]:

Oh.

David Lorentzen [35:49]:

And the crime goes up, and there’s no police station nearby. There’s no police patrols nearby, and there’s literally no, no schools, no education because it’s a very it’s a small village. Like, there’s no Yeah. There’s no actual infrastructure or services nearby. So you’re just gonna have a roaming gang of Afghans in a small village.

Simone Collins [36:09]:

Right. So they have nothing to do. They don’t have jobs. There aren’t job opportunities, really. Yes. Yes. And, also, the industry there is hurting because the the tourists who otherwise would be staying there and supporting local restaurants and creating local jobs aren’t there because the boys are there. Why then why would the government send people there? It seems like a doomed

David Lorentzen [36:30]:

Yes. So this is a story of two strategies on how to integrate people. So one strategy is that you try to spread out all the new immigrants as thinly as possible because then you don’t notice it as much. If they start clustering, they form ghettos, they form segregation, they start forming gangs. Right? So to break that buildup, you ideally want to try to spread them out all across the country. Then you won’t really notice it. They they can’t form gangs. Right?

Simone Collins [37:01]:

Well, yeah, you kind of we were just talking in a previous episode about Denmark’s policy to sort of bust up slums or ghettos, immigrant ghettos. And I guess sure. It it you can’t see it. If there aren’t immigrant ghettos, it doesn’t seem as bad, but I guess this is the counterpoint of that is this is what happens when you bust up the immigrant ghettos but don’t actually deport immigrants. Yes. Immigrants at all. He’s the so Basically, if you break a crime, you’re out. Or sorry. If you Yeah. If you break up the law, you’re out. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [37:33]:

Yeah. And but the problem with trying to spread people out is that it becomes more difficult to integrate them because they need translators, for example. And you maybe only have a few thousand translators across the country. So if you’re spreading out everyone, then your translation cost goes through the roof and won’t even reach these people. They don’t speak English. They don’t speak Swedish or any European language. So you run into these various extreme cost with that, okay, they’re getting isolated, and they’re having struggling integrating. They’re becoming antisocial instead.

Simone Collins [38:07]:

And how can they not, honestly? Like, it’s not a them thing. I I would do the same thing if I were a kid isolated with a bunch of other kids my age, not a way who normally humans live, right, without their parents, without

Malcolm Collins [38:20]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [38:20]:

And and you’re probably deeply traumatized and have some Yeah. Serious cultural differences. I mean, who’s

Simone Collins [38:26]:

among us would not turn to a life of crime Yeah.

David Lorentzen [38:29]:

In that instance. But for your integration to be efficient, you have to start concentrating people into areas where you can be more efficient with your human resources so that your translators can translate for a whole group of them.

Simone Collins [38:44]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [38:45]:

And that’s when you come to these sort of mini Sweden integration facilities where

Simone Collins [38:52]:

Wait. So they are starting to do this. They are starting to concentrate.

David Lorentzen [38:55]:

Basically have both tools in the toolkit. So they real what what’s happened is that they realized, okay. For some immigrant groups, it makes sense to spread them out and put them out in the country. For example, Ukrainians. You know, they know how to use technology. They know how to use some European languages and English, and they maybe have some profession or skill that is actually useful for the job market. So spreading them out into the country actually works because they have some of the self discipline.

Simone Collins [39:24]:

Yeah. They integrate. They they can get jobs. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I think most people I’ve we’ve worked with Ukrainians. We’ve talked with yeah. It’s weirdly, like, I think Ukrainians are quite global too, so that helps.

David Lorentzen [39:35]:

Yes. But you have so so that actually works, that strategy. But what doesn’t work is, for example, with Somalians or Afghans where, you know, they don’t maybe not have any schooling at all, and you don’t they don’t have a common language. They don’t even know how to use how to be a Swede and to be western in a western society. Now Sweden is, you know, more automated and more advanced than The US. Like, we have had a cashless societies for decades now. We don’t we don’t have cashiers. We have you know, you you register the product yourself. Right? and we’ve had, you know, articles and incidents where, for example, African migrants start a fire on the floor because they were desperately hungry, and then the fire alarm in the whole apartment goes because they didn’t know how to use a what is it called? Siemens or Electrolux Oven with the digital display. They didn’t know how to use the oven, so they started it with firewood on the floor in the apartment.

Simone Collins [40:41]:

Oh my god. I’ve so been there. This is so sad, but we’ve stayed in some luxury hotels, like, when we were guests of other people where the microwave is so advanced that I’m basically there, man. I’m like, I don’t know how to work this thing. I so I can relate to that, actually. Like, if you haven’t been around certain appliances and you do not know how they work, you’re like,

Malcolm Collins [41:02]:

I’m out of I’m out of options.

Simone Collins [41:04]:

Malcolm, you know that kind of microwave I’m talking about. Right? Like, the drawer microwave. It took me a while to figure those out.

David Lorentzen [41:10]:

So, basically, you realize that with some groups who have not had much exposure to the western way of life,

Simone Collins [41:16]:

Any exposure. Any exposure.

David Lorentzen [41:19]:

They need to learn and study how to buy food in a grocery shop with no cashier, with no cash.

Simone Collins [41:26]:

Yeah. They

David Lorentzen [41:27]:

need to study how to use. Yeah. They need to study how to use an a digital oven in a microwave. Yeah. They need to study how to swim because they’ve lived in a desert their whole life. They need to study these various basic things to function.

Malcolm Collins [41:42]:

Groups where whether or not they live in a desert, they almost never learn to swim.

Simone Collins [41:46]:

Yeah. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [41:47]:

But, you know, Sweden has a 100,000 licks. So, you know, there’s water yeah. So there’s water everywhere.

Malcolm Collins [41:54]:

There’s water all over The US, and there’s some groups that don’t know how to swim. I was just saying it.

David Lorentzen [41:58]:

Yeah. But it but it basically meant that, okay, for for people to even some people to even function in a western society, you basically have to teach them from you go through these various steps. But when you do that, they form gangs. They start clustering amongst each other. And it’s basically like a tutorial, mission at the start of a game. Yeah. You have to complete the tutorial before you can actually play the game. That’s basically what these mini Sweden facilities are to these people. Like, you have to learn the various mechanics of the society.

Simone Collins [42:34]:

And so do people, like, go is it basically, like, school? Like, you you show up in the town, you go through the training, but then you, like, move on to live and work wherever you go.

David Lorentzen [42:43]:

Yeah. So in in in this area that I’ve studied and looked at, like okay. So they have, you know, the the a grocery store that they regularly go to tours with, and they guide them through the shop to show, okay. This is how it works. They have a swimming pool. Pool in the school for these purposes. They have a huge room for ovens where they learn how to cook. Basically, they have created a whole building where they can concentrate all of these essential aspects to basically give them a crash course on how to be western. But when you do that and then you say, okay. Congratulations. You you you now know how to function. You now have the freedom to move

Simone Collins [43:25]:

so many people in America that need this school. Like, I just kinda feel like we all not we all, but, like, societally speaking, nearly every country, regardless of the presence of migrants, needs, like, this. Because to Malcolm’s point, a lot of my friends in high school, like, all the way up to adulthood, never learned how to swim. Yeah. Also never learned how to do their own laundry or cook meals. Like, actually sounds amazing, but also For not

Malcolm Collins [43:53]:

just migraines, but for, like, normal people.

Simone Collins [43:55]:

For actual, like, naturally born people. I that’s it we were just kind of sad. Like, it’s it’s telling that, like, in in Sweden where you’re like, look. Society’s falling apart. People are, like, building fires on, like, the floors of their Apartment. Hotel rooms. I’m like, dude, relatable. That happened in my dorm room freshman year. Like no. And, literally, it was very common for the fire alarms to go off in the middle of the night because, like, some kid was literally burning something in the room.

David Lorentzen [44:23]:

Yeah. But when you do that, okay, you’ve completed your crash course.

Simone Collins [44:26]:

Yes.

David Lorentzen [44:27]:

And then you get the freedom to move wherever you want in Sweden. They basically talk amongst each other. Okay. I don’t know where to go. And then they go look over and then, okay. Where are you going?

Simone Collins [44:38]:

Oh god. Of course. No. Oh, the the integration is failed.

David Lorentzen [44:41]:

Then they all cluster. They all move to these migrant areas with the support community.

Simone Collins [44:46]:

Right? Like, if you were suddenly Afghanistan and sent to Afghanistan culture school and, like, you’d, like, turn to the the the suite right next to you, and you’d be like, where are going, buddy? Yep. Yep. There too.

David Lorentzen [45:00]:

So this basically means that the level of segregation in this country is, like, Jim Jim Crow level.

Simone Collins [45:07]:

Yeah. But totally like, despite all efforts to the contrary.

David Lorentzen [45:11]:

Yep. Yep. It’s just has to do with, okay, how do you integrate people that don’t know how to function? Yeah. You just have to cluster them all together to be efficient with your resources that you have. Uh-huh. Like, you only have an x amount of translators if you and even the But even if you do

Simone Collins [45:30]:

that even if you do that, it doesn’t it doesn’t work.

David Lorentzen [45:34]:

So you you just have to pick your poison. You just have to pick your poison on how to integrate people that are so far from a it’s basically a different planet. Sweden is a different planet to these people. That’s how I

Malcolm Collins [45:45]:

always voted past five.

Simone Collins [45:47]:

So Okay. Yeah.

David Lorentzen [45:48]:

No. That is That is a a tale of two different strategies on how to integrate people. For sales, it makes sense. It makes sense to just spread them out because they can handle the self discipline. They it’s close enough for them to make that jump. For some, the jump is so high and so difficult that they need a helping hand and a crash course and a tutorial. And what do you the problem is that you just don’t you just have to pick your problem with how to integrate Afghans. You’re not gonna get them integrated. you’re just gonna have a disintegration, and you just have to choose which version of it.

Simone Collins [46:26]:

Yeah. Which which I guess is why so many countries are now like, you know what? We’re just not gonna do just not gonna do this.

David Lorentzen [46:33]:

I mean, 10% of the Swedish population can’t read.

Simone Collins [46:38]:

Yeah. Well

David Lorentzen [46:39]:

Literally can’t read.

Simone Collins [46:40]:

Like That’s not

David Lorentzen [46:41]:

A quarter a quarter of the children a few there was a study a few years ago. A quarter of the children in Swedish schools can’t read. Is this is this literally can’t read.

Malcolm Collins [46:50]:

Is is this, like, the native born ones or mostly the migrants?

David Lorentzen [46:53]:

None of the it’s the migrants because they didn’t have a translator. If you’re putting a 15 year old and never gone to school together with 15 year old Swedes that are learning algebra and geometry

Simone Collins [47:03]:

Oh god. That sucks.

David Lorentzen [47:04]:

And they and they don’t speak English and they don’t speak Swedish, then they’re going to learn nothing.

Simone Collins [47:10]:

Yeah.

David Lorentzen [47:10]:

And the only way for them to learn anything is if they start elementary in their own language, cluster, but we didn’t do that. So we have basically a whole generation of immigrants that can’t read, that literally can’t read.

Simone Collins [47:23]:

Yeah. So they’re not they’re not being set up for success. And I it looks like a lot of it just requires actually confronting face to face really, really, really uncomfortable truths. Yeah. And the problem with modern society is that we have a predominating society That that is, like, the number one thing. The one thing that we’re not allowed to do is accept uncomfortable truths. Like, everything else okay.

Malcolm Collins [47:45]:

Sweden. No reason to take some what’s why did Somalian immigrants need to be in Sweden? Aren’t there other African countries they could go to? Like

Simone Collins [47:52]:

Well, that’s the thing. They don’t they don’t accept them. No one like, in in The Middle East, they don’t accept migrants. Right?

David Lorentzen [47:57]:

Like, no one else connection. Strangely enough, Somalians just love going into Scandinavian communities in Minnesota and in the Nordic countries.

Simone Collins [48:06]:

Oh my god. You’re right. Oh my god. You’re right. Yes.

Malcolm Collins [48:09]:

Easy to scam. Something there.

Simone Collins [48:11]:

Yeah. Oh, no. Abuela. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins [48:14]:

Good having you on. This has been this has been really

Simone Collins [48:17]:

yeah. That was very fascinating.

David Lorentzen [48:19]:

I there’s so much more to say on this, but another time.

Simone Collins [48:22]:

Another time. I I’m looking forward to it. So one of these days, we’re gonna come out

Malcolm Collins [48:26]:

and crash

Simone Collins [48:26]:

the for dinner? Had to cook rice on the floor.

Malcolm Collins [48:32]:

I was gonna get rid of mozzarella.

Simone Collins [48:34]:

I was gonna I was gonna, yeah, do bulldog with the mozzarella. Okay. That works for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Cool. David, it has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for after a long workday coming to share some insider gossip with us. It’s been so top tier. Really loved it. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins [48:51]:

So good night.

Simone Collins [48:52]:

Have I was so, flummoxed by your claims of empty movie theaters. I think a lot of it, Malcolm, honestly, is just people wanna be somewhere air conditioned and look at a big screen. There’s that novelty. I can’t believe IMAX’s are still a thing, though, honestly. How is that possible? Anyway okay. David, I’m recording now, just so you know. I won’t I won’t mess this up. Alright. I’m actively recording. Yes. So you just you’ve been warned. And I I will I’ll kick us off super fast. So you ready?

David Lorentzen [49:26]:

Give me an opportunity then to give an intro to why I can talk about this because

Simone Collins [49:31]:

I will. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay.