speaker-0: Hi Bird Nerds, my name is Rihannan, and welcome to the Winging It Podcast. This is the podcast where birdwatching becomes simple, welcoming, and genuinely enjoyable for everyone. Each episode, I'll explore what draws people to birds in the first place. From complete beginners spotting their first robin to casual birders building a lifelong hobby, to well-known voices in ornithology sharing their stories and insights. We'll talk about why people start birding, what keeps them coming back. and how it can fit into everyday life without pressure or perfection. There are no expectations here, just good conversation, practical tips, a few funny stories, and the occasional slightly chaotic bird fact. Because at the heart of it, bird watching isn't about being an expert. It's about noticing what's already around you. So wherever you are joining us from, welcome along. Today I'm talking with Phil DeSouza, who I connected with on TikTok. Phil is a LARP organiser, live events creative, sound designer and a hobbyist birder with a preference for capturing audio rather than photos or videos. So what is it that led you? What's your origin story? How did you get to the point of wanting to listen to birds rather than looking at them?
speaker-1: I mean I do look at them as well to to to throw it out there. for me it started back from being a live events engineer and being a sound engineer as well. Very cool. just sound, music, all of that's just been a huge part of my life. and then when I wanted to get into burning, I kind of almost needed to find a reason for myself to to go out and do it. It just w I for whatever reason it didn't feel like it was quite enough or quite as exciting enough to Just go out with some binoculars or a scope or something. And then thought, well, I could get a new toy. That would make it more fun, right? kind of. Absolutely.
speaker-0: Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-1: And I d I wanted a parabolic microphone, I just thought they were really an interesting thing for ages, but everything I found was geared towards the life sports event scene and you're looking at thousands of pounds for a thing which is ridiculous. I just happened to Google and come across a UK manufacturer called Innercore, I think. Who was selling them for like a hundred and thirty quid or something like that?
speaker-0: Okay, that's not that bad. I thought you were gonna say like thousands. I was like, I couldn't cope with that.
speaker-1: No, it's it's really it's just a sensibly priced thing. and then I had a field recorder anyway from previous work, so
speaker-0: It's only excuse to get a new toy, really, isn't it? Because I had some like twenty quid bins from Amazon. but then as soon as I really got into it, I was like, well obviously I need to spend £250 on Tamara SPB ones. Obviously. And then as I was like I was down at Aarn, the site in Aarn that they have, which is fantastic. I've never actually seen any birds there really, like outside of all the normal ones, which is a shame because I know it's a real good site and where obviously Spring Watch go. but they have a scope down there. And I was like, well, obviously that's my next that's my next big purchase. So it's like thousands of pounds. I was like, yes, it's going to be fantastic and I'm gonna be the best burder in all the land, but actually I'm just gonna be me going down like Riverside Park over the road just looking at looking at a bloody seagull. That's actually a red flag, I shouldn't have said seagull.
speaker-1: no.
speaker-0: I'm gonna get picked up on that. There's
speaker-1: You've earned it.
speaker-0: no such thing as a seagull.
speaker-1: No, only girls, of different flavours.
speaker-0: I've had a problem today though, because I went out on a walk and I saw loads of black-headed girls. And the problem is with black-headed girls is that A, they don't have black heads, they're brown, so there's another naming issue that they've got. Little gulls also have a black head. and then there's also Mediterranean gulls.
speaker-1: I was just thinking, yeah, that's similar as well.
speaker-0: So I may well have had three lifers in that respect, but I probably would never know about it because I don't ever really go out with experts, it's just usually me and my little RSPB pocketbook just going around going, Well yeah, that's probably it So you've been a sound tech before. So you're obviously very into music and stuff. So where did that come from
speaker-1: way back when in primary school playing brass instruments and did that all throughout school and college, playing with Hampshire and whatever else. which is really really fun. but I've also been a real techie. So trying to find a bridge between the two was interesting. ended up doing a degree in music technology. very good so recording studios, sound design, that kind of thing. and found that my love of tech was more than my love of playing music. So I fell off the bandwagon, got more into the tech side of things. and then became a theist technician by accident mostly.
speaker-0: Bringing it back to birding though, Phil, so obviously sound and you're saying that, you know, you needed a maybe a reason to get back into it and obviously to buy a new toy as well. Well who was it or what was it that actually got you into birding, going out in the natural world and listening to the bird song?
speaker-1: that's the most cool answer. I just really embraced my granddad era a couple of years ago. I just committed to do you know what I'm I'm an old man really. I'm not that old in the grand scheme of things, but I just embraced being an old man. and yeah, th there was there's never been a person in my life or a grandparent or whatever who's been interested in birds or nature. as a kid I remember I used to trace birds out of field guides and that kind of thing. Which was just I don't know why I did that. I just happened to end up doing it as kids do, I guess. Brilliant. so yeah, a couple of years ago I just finally committed to right, well I've always had an interest in them and thought they were cool. I don't really know that much about them, but there's no time like the present. The tituled haven is literally five minutes up the road from me, and I've neglected the fact that it's such a good site. as the first site I properly went to and then got completely spoiled by amount of hides and stuff they have there. And now going to other sites and going, wait, hold on. Is that not I thought the norm was like a billion hides, like.
speaker-0: That is not the standard at all. And sometimes with sites, you're even lucky if you can find a toilet. Like that they're just they're they're hardly a thing. But Titchfield I mean Titchfield Haven, what an amazing site. You're literally spoilt for choice, aren't you? I'd say Blashford Lakes as well, if you've been down there is also absolutely fantastic for the hide. So on your amazing microphone film,
speaker-1: Yes.
speaker-0: what has been your favourite bird call so far?
speaker-1: I think lap wings have been the most interesting, just because they sound like laser guns. And that was again, first time down to Schwarth, first time using the mic, not really having any clue about what I was gonna be seeing or hearing. And then to hear it so with that mic, it is almost like you've got a microphone right next to the bird, even though you are very far away. So you're right up in there. you're hearing all the like the splishes and splashes of the like differ like wading birds diving under the water and It's just a really it becomes a really zen experience. 'cause obviously you can still hear stuff from a hide, but wearing so much closer, it's almost like a white noise kind of thing. And then as you're watching birds trying to identify them and stuff, I don't know, it just becomes a almost meditative kind of thing.
speaker-0: I bet you could do really well selling that as like a like a calming sleeping mix.
speaker-1: Do know what? It happens that many other people have also thought their recording birds on would be a good idea. There's a bit of it there's a there's a few bits out there. It has
speaker-0: Yeah, I can imagine.
speaker-1: occurred to me, I have wanted to try and bridge it with like kind of composing some light, chill music with that. but unfortunately I just have too many hobbies and I'll get around to it one day, I guess. I
speaker-0: I asked you about any really amazing birding in real life stories that you might have and you mentioned that there was a very interesting time in the Netherlands. Please do expand about that 'cause I had a giggle about that for about five minutes and had to take myself away and then come back to it.
speaker-1: I would I mean I think I did laugh at the time 'cause of how ridiculous it all was. But I was heading to a laugh event in the Netherlands, so travelled across from the UK to there and as is wont to happen, I'm a hairy man, who has a kind of vague tan. I get randomly searched pretty frequently. it's so random. and as it happened in the queue waiting to go through passport control, what they decided to search my vehicle. 'Cause you know, you might be hiding people in there or whatever else. No, you never know. You never know. my car was packed to the gills with lights and sound equipment. Thank goodness they didn't open up the crate that is I call it the science crate, just full of scientific bottles and vials and weird like UV chemicals and stuff, just as props for set dressing. but it definitely looks real dodgy. they didn't look at that one, thankfully. and yeah, they they did catch the attention of the radar dish, the parabolic mic in the backseat, which you could definitely use to try and spy on people and whatever else is kind of what it was originally designed for. so there's this potential maybe security risk there of why has this hairy guy got all of this random stuff and what is that? they didn't seem to believe me fully when I said, it's for bird watching. With no real explanation than that. Thankfully. On the other side of the car one of the border patrol guards opened up the car door and my bright prink pink crocs fell out. And there was
speaker-0: No, come
speaker-1: Yes, of course they're mine. Yeah, and luckily that really for some reason distracted them enough to forget about the radar dish and decide I didn't have anyone in my car. and off I went.
speaker-0: Spike here. I mean now that you mention it, do you know what? I'm so naive that I was like, Yes, what an amazing way to watch like to listen to bird. Never actually thought of the really like negative ways that you know Yeah.
speaker-1: yeah, I you could I've definitely ended up hearing conversations from people on the other side of a site accidentally just 'cause if they're in line with you know you're not hearing anything meaningful, be like, okay, I don't know where they are, that's weird.
speaker-0: I wouldn't be able to stop with that. I I'd be an absolute menace. When I was about five, my nan and granddad took me out birding, so they gave me a pair of binoculars. Now what do you think a five year old is going to do walking down a residential street with binoculars?
speaker-1: I guess just looking at everyone around and really up close.
speaker-0: And in their houses.
speaker-1: really?
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Incredible. Incredible.
speaker-0: So I was told many a time, many a time on that one trip, but also for subsequent trips afterwards, please stop looking in people's houses. And then because I knew that that was wrong, I then started doing it secretly from their house upstairs. So I was looking in people's bedroom windows.
speaker-1: wow.
speaker-0: Yeah, I've yeah. Luckily nothing that scarred me for life.
speaker-1: Yeah, that could have been real spicy.
speaker-0: But thinking about, you know wrong use of equipment. I was basically a pervert at first. And
speaker-1: How are you doing?
speaker-0: now if I had access to a parabolic microphone, I think I just would not be able to stop myself from obviously listening to birds because that's very important. But also definitely listening into people's conversations because I just couldn't stop I just I I'm so nosy.
speaker-1: There's something about I see I'm not nosy and there's something about she goes, You're ruining my recording. I c this could have been a great recording and now I can hear motorbikes and I can hear you chatting and chainsaws and the downside of being able to get really
speaker-0: You've learned how to protect your peace very, very well. Whereas I like to invite chaos into it at all points, every day. I will listen in my garden, not just a bird song, but as soon as my neighbours start talking, I'm immediately up like a mere cat and I am listening in straight away. Has it happened to you ever that you've got to a point where you're like, right, okay, I know what you sound like, now move over and like I wanna hear something else now? Or is just all bird song? just still interesting to you as it was the first time that you heard it.
speaker-1: So so it's Weirdly, as much as I do love Lapwings, there is a point where I'm like, alright guys, pack it in. There's other there's I think there's a turnover there. That's exciting. That was new. and I'd rather pay attention to that, but you guys just won't shut up. So that that does that does happen. But I try to vary up where I'm visiting rather than going to the same place over and over, and that then just changes the soundscape that you're getting.
speaker-0: That's really interesting. So how how far have you been? Lots of different sites in Hampshire, or are you travelling actively, like across county lines so that you can go to different sites?
speaker-1: Not too actively with that yet. my weirdly I my powder warding has ended up taking me further afield than my burning has as such. But I've been over to Wales and been visiting one of my partners. I did do some burning out in the Netherlands that on that trip where I took the mic at a day off, got to see my first grey legg geese, got to see my first woodpecker, I think it was a excellent middle wood yeah, some flavour of woodpecker. god.
speaker-0: I gonna say which one? You got a name no phil, you got a name no phil. There are two.
speaker-1: that's not helpful. It's in my lifelist somewhere. it's not middle of the name, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it's good enough. Yeah, I I've I so I tried to travel around a bit. this could segue into I think one of the questions you prompted was maybe unusual burning encounter or something.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Love an unusual birding encounter.
speaker-1: Well, I think I might top this for the start of the podcast for anyone else so that they can beat me.
speaker-0: my god, go on.
speaker-1: it's not necessarily i I it's kind the circumstances were I guess unusual for a brick. so I was visiting a friend out in the Netherlands. I don't just go to the Netherlands, but it for
speaker-0: It feels like you do.
speaker-1: some reason. no, for some reason there's a lot of burning there. and on our trip, the first stop was gonna be a luxury spa complex. we don't do spas right in the UK. We're dreadful. Correct. that site had it was like fifteen different saunas, loads of different bards, hot tubs, coal plungers, you name it. a cinema sauna, which is great. so you're watching a film and there's music and there's lights and it's amazing. So this all happening. th I've been awake for about thirty hours at this point because of flight timings and stuff, which is a lot. But I think it was very chill days, that was fine. and the complex overlooks beautiful lake. There's a few of the saunas which overlook the lake. and it's a fully nude sauna. So butt naked real tired, pretty sleepy, just sitting in a sauna watching birds and stuff. it's amazing. That's honestly an exceptional way to bird.
speaker-0: That I don't think that anyone is ever I don't know how many episodes or seasons of this are gonna do, but regardless of that, I don't believe that anything is gonna top that. And what what
speaker-1: Like like coming in strong.
speaker-0: an amazing way to connect with nature by being the most
speaker-1: In so many ways.
speaker-0: That's fantastic.
speaker-1: Yeah, that was good. I love that. Highly recommend it.
speaker-0: That's really funny. Why don't Phil? That's absolutely brilliant. Saying that, leading off from that, this does fit. I I a couple of months ago joined Southampton Animal Action because I got really, really into so I actually got Turkey Twizzlers banned in my school when I was seven because I saw an ITV news segment that morning about how the turkeys were kept in these really horrific battery farmed conditions and I basic I was already a vegetarian at that point. I grew up veggie. but every so often was allowed a bit of meat, but we were quite poor and it was quite expensive. So wasn't a normal thing in my life. So I wrote to my school that day and was like, You need to take these off the menu. This is disgusting. And I like wrote this really compassionate, like amazing letter to the head. And she immediately came back and was like, Cellulus, that's fantastic. We'll take them off, no problem. About a week later, all the other students cottoned on to the fact that there was no more Turkey Chwizzler like Tuesdays anymore. And they all started like her like being very angry about it. And the teacher would basically say, Somebody complained about them, so we don't have them anymore. And everyone was like, my god, when we find out who that was, we're gonna we're gonna kill them. We're really upset about it. And I was like, Yeah, grab the pitchforks, lads. Like, my god, I who Who's amongst us would have done that?
speaker-1: We did basically ban crack primary school children. Like
speaker-0: Memory, they were fucking delicious. But once you've seen that, I feel like it's really difficult to get back to it. But leading on from that, I joined Southampton Animal Action because yeah, I've got like a background in, you know, being an animal activist. I joined Greenpeace when I like a love animals, all this kind of stuff. I was talking to one of the leaders of the groups. And he was like, So how did you like get into all of this? And I was like, I've just been like a hardline naturist like for years now.
speaker-1: Ha ha ha. I am bold. I don't
speaker-0: Like two hours pass and he's read it but he's not replied. And I he then responds like Wow, that's really cool. How long have you been doing that for? And I was thinking like gosh, that's a really weird like this all now feels like really strange and really weird. Like did I definitely say the right thing? So I googled it and no I did not say the right thing. I meant naturalist. Yeah. The worst part about that is that that wasn't the first time I've told somebody that I'm interested.
speaker-1: Just just own it now at this point. Just just come here.
speaker-0: Well
speaker-1: If you say that, I highly recommend budding butt naked, apparently a stray. Well It's better if there are saunas and hot tubs and
speaker-0: I was gonna say, I think that sounds fantastic. And I would say that I did grow up as one of those like naked hippie children running around 'cause I had a really hippie mum and you know, I was I was I was veggie before veggie was cool and eating lentils before they became mature. yeah. I think that sound that sounds completely up my street. I don't recommend going around people you know, telling people that you're a naturist though, if you are one. 'cause that was No
speaker-1: An easy mistake to make. Or I mean it probably would be something that somebody's so proud of to say though.
speaker-0: I mean, I'm doing it for I don't know if you know about the I don't know if you had them down your way, but we have a group of naturists that go around on bicycles every so often in Southampton. So you'll be at Bedford Place having a pint and then all of a sudden you'll see a flurry of seventy year old naked bodies on bicycle seats.
speaker-1: I am thankful that I haven't witnessed that. Yeah.
speaker-0: I do remember the first time I saw it, I genuinely was like, Am I on drugs and I don't know that I've been drugged? 'Cause I can't understand what's happening. They're all listening to like EDM techno music.
speaker-1: You sound like to me now. This sounds great.
speaker-0: It's all like suspiciously tanned all over. There's like a penis. my god, that's a penis. my god, there's another one.
speaker-1: Ha ha ha ha
speaker-0: You can't make it up. You literally just can't. I mean, it's great, it's good for them. But I didn't know that there was a world in which I could, you know, link being butt naked and, you know, enjoying birds. Assuming that you didn't have the microphone with you.
speaker-1: No no that would be that would have been weird.
speaker-0: Interesting how you can go from like I think bird people who bird are interested in the natural world seem to seek out anything that can connect us to nature more widely as well. It's kind of like a gateway drug. You're like, well I care about birds, so I care about the environment, so I care about sustainability, so I care about different types of plants and native plants and what do plants do and essential oils made from. plants and it kind of goes on this like massive journey. I don't know if you found that, but it's something that I've definitely noticed along the way.
speaker-1: I think for me it was it we ended for me it ended up being in the gateway for powderboarding and canoeing and just realising driving across the motorway every day, driving across the River Hamble every day and going on that
speaker-0: I was gonna say What going down the jolly sailor and having a fight and going paddleboard?
speaker-1: Never done that. I'm too too committed to actually the paddle the paddling part of it. 'Cause we're I launched from Swannick Marina, so it's lit the Jolly Sailor's away. It wouldn't be worth it. Although I have seen the seal, just by the Jolly Sailor. Have you? Yeah, it was really close like a couple of meetings away. That's really sweet.
speaker-0: Amazing. I didn't that's so good. I knew that there was one down there, but I've never seen it.
speaker-1: Mm. Yeah, I that's the w it was it I got a new startup paddle boarding last year around September, October, so technically the end of the season. And paddled all over winter, which it it not many people do that, weirdly enough. But it meant that I've had rivers and canals and all manner of places just to myself. and then obviously there's more bird life and wildlife out there as well. got my first Kingfisher sighting, having like months of burning And not see a kingfisher, even though that's ridiculous given that where we live but everything. In it. Yeah,
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah.
speaker-1: yeah. and then Chichester Canal was on that and my second time paddleboarding, I think, and I like, well there's one, great. Why don't they just do paddling sooner? That was way easier. And just was paddling down up and down a canal when the kingfisher were just kind of chasing jumping further along.
speaker-0: We had one sighting at Blashford Lakes, one, and it lasted for a split second. Yeah. Because we heard it. Cause usually what happens is is what I've been told anyway, is you hear them make the little noise and then you're just meant to watch them just dart and you don't really get to enjoy their just majesty. I mean they're absolutely stunning. And I remember we because me and my partner down there, we saw one, and it was one of those things where it was like I've seen them on the telly. Other people have talked to me about them. I've seen pictures of them. I know that they're blue. But my god, I didn't realise like how blue, how beautiful they are. But it's almost otherworldly in terms of colour because blue doesn't appear that much in the natural world. So having something just that iridescent is absolutely fantastic. This sounds like I'm gonna have to get into paddleboarding, 'cause you're obviously managing to get round to places that you might not be able to. Is that kind of the aim?
speaker-1: Big time. Big time. And especially if you're out on a canal or something that's which is going away from towns or city centres. You're effectively in the middle of a field with a bunch of wading birds or whatever who don't really encounter that many people, so they're a bit less skittish or whatever else. I've been not chased, thankfully, but just had to figure out a route around swans and signets and all that nonsense. I have we had a grey heron kind of running up ahead of us yesterday on a canoe at Basel State Canal. it's a really interesting way. Obviously you can't take your bins out. There's no ornaments. No
speaker-0: Harness I'm thinking there's got to be a way of me being able to do that because w I went out today without any bins and there were two bloody cormorants just on the other side of the river that I can't see. So I was just like, my god, they're amazing. Try to film it. Just like try to film it. But obviously they just look like two black blobs just on the screen and I'm like, that's so annoying 'cause I love them so much. I think they're absolutely magnificent. They're probably one of my favourite birds actually.
speaker-1: Like properly saw them was at Blashford Lakes. Yeah. And I just didn't expect them to be in trees. Like Why you you're like a dinosaur bird in a tree. What's going on? Get ac no. There's one of you over there basking, I guess, or whatever is doing. That looks more logical.
speaker-0: A literal dinosaur. Yeah. Yeah, when you see them on posts in the water and they're doing the thing with their 'cause obviously they're I think they're one of the only birds that's not waterproof, so they have to have their wings out so that they can dry them. But yeah, seeing them in a tree or seeing any wader or wild you know, waterfowl in a tree. We were in Southampton Conroe last summer and there was just a duck in a tree. And I was like I'm sure I'm sure that there's a glitch in the matrix somewhere. This isn't right. I n I know that you're not meant to be there. Do you know that you're not meant to be there? This is not like I didn't I didn't know that that was normal behaviour. It turns out they're just birds go in trees and that's But yeah, see
speaker-1: I guess.
speaker-0: seeing a Cormorant for the first time is is always I think one of my core memories. Going down to Lymington, going down to Key Haven Marshes, which is a fantastic site and We were just waiting in a traffic jam going into Lymington and you go over a bridge and there's water either side of you. And I remember just turning around and going, Bloody hell, what the fuck is that? That's massive. I'd only just started like really getting into birding at that point. And I just got my little book out and I was like looking at it and I was like, my god, I think that that's an actual living dinosaur. Look at this. And I'm putting it in front of my partner's face and he's my god, I'm literally trying to drive. And I'm like, No, it's amazing. There's a cornoran, it's a cornoran. The only thing with those is that sometimes I like misidentification a lot. I think when you're first getting into birding, especially, and I don't know if you have it probably with sound as well. A lot of sounds are very similar with birds, and I say that a lot of visual identification of birds is really difficult too. So when I was in down in Cornwall, we went on a two hour boating excursion, fantastic, to Puffin Island. Ironically, no puffins.
speaker-1: Obviously, yeah.
speaker-0: Obviously. And I got really seasick afterwards, so that was like a ten out of ten experience for me. Turns out I don't do boats. Paddleboarding, yes, boats absolutely hard.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: And we saw a bird and I was like, it's a Cormoran and they went no, it's got a really snazzy hairdo. But what what is that? It's a shag. Obviously, I've never seen one before. So and and there was nobody on that boat near me at least with binoculars or any seemingly you know, they were just there because it was a touristy kind of thing, just to do, which is fantastic, obviously, to go and see these amazing red birds, but I'm like But I'm trying to identify everything. I don't know what anything is.
speaker-1: Ha ha.
speaker-0: The only one that did pop up that I like hard line, my god, I had like a I actually had to sit down was a gannet flying past. Just shot past the boat. Like split second, my partner got out of his camera and like got this amazing picture of it. It was fantastic. But yeah, misidentification I fight like listening to Chetty's warblers, Reed Warblers, and Sedge Warblers to me personally just sounds like a load of noise. They're all just going like We're just kinda like shouting. The only one that I can really identify off the bat is a wren. And we've nicknamed it Techno Bird because it goes like pew pew pew So we just call them techno birds now. Do you have any weird and wonderful nicknames that you've started to give birds now that you're obviously keeping an eye on how they sound and listening out for them.
speaker-1: Okay, this is probably the best time to admit. I love bird calls and the the sound side of it. I am dreadful at audio call ID. I'm absolutely abysmal at it. which is why I did I've done a couple of the BTO courses online. which are genuinely really helpful. they come up with some very bizarre memory aids and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. But some also just genuinely helpful bits and pieces. and that Th th th the downside of that kind of thing is when you're trying to learn something like a blackbird, or a missile thrusher and you go, so what's the sandout feature of this bird? that it doesn't repeat the same thing twice. Great, that's really helpful. Thanks, Blackbirds.
speaker-0: And then you have to realise what each individual call sounds like to put next to each other to then identify them. Yeah, they're a tickle, aren't they? They're a bucket. Mistlethrushes, I think if it sounds like an insane person, it's a mistlethrash. No.
speaker-1: That's not as helpful as you might think. That makes sense to you.
speaker-0: Make sense to me. There's actually a correct way of doing it. And now obviously I can't remember which one's which, but mistlethrashes compared to song thrushes are big, chonky guys. Yeah. And one of them's got upside-down hearts for spots and one of them's actually got spots.
speaker-1: Okay, okay.
speaker-0: Again, being a complete well, not complete novice, but being quite a novice in this field, I'm still not at the point where I could actively identify, you know, a thrush if I didn't have Merlin out. But that's why Merlin is obviously so fantastic. The only issue that I found with it, and I know that a couple of people are looking into this, is as soon as it's windy, as soon as there's people around, as soon as there's, you know, a a melee of birds around you, like lots of different types of waders, for some reason it's just picking up a chif chak that's behind you. It's not picking up everything. It does a lot of like hearing a bird, but it doesn't then actually confirm which one it is. But I can imagine that having a microphone is probably really useful because you could probably put all of that audio into Merlin.
speaker-1: You thought, but you can't. Can you not? I've tried and it just didn't get anything from it, which I thought was really bizarre. I don't know if
speaker-0: Please.
speaker-1: it's designed around phone microphones and that kind of thing. I've got no idea how it works in that sense. It already didn't work.
speaker-0: That's interesting. I know a couple of people online that I follow, especially a chap called Tim who's big in Birding. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's been testing out various microphones that could possibly link with your phone to assist Merlin to enhance it a little bit more. but it's very strange that you can't upload audio to Merlin for it to then identify because
speaker-1: Which yeah.
speaker-0: Can do it with photos, can't like I know that you if you to photo and you're not quite sure, I mean it's not it's pretty fifty fifty to be fair, because it's told me that god, what was it? A greater white throw was a blackbird. They look completely different. They aren't even the same guy, like not even like even a a smidge and it gets really confused, but other times it can be quite useful. But I would have thought that uploading let's be honest, like quite high quality audio for them to utilize and put into their systems to not only assist you but also to assist other people possibly would have been like a number one, you know, thing that they would be after.
speaker-1: But then again there's not many Anaraks like me with a radar dish going outside.
speaker-0: In all fairness, I don't I don't think I've ever seen somebody out there with a massive fuck off spy mic, so
speaker-1: I've now gone to many, many reserves and if I got like a ticket wreath or something where you have to pay, I'll just be like, well you hit you hit the survey today like no I'm just a strange man. No, you're just
speaker-0: Yes, you could probably get like in the back rooms of like some RSPB sites and get some really cool stuff from them.
speaker-1: Probably, but I feel like they'd expect me to actually know what I'm doing. Like, I've recorded it, what do you want done now?
speaker-0: Just just say that there's a survey, just bring a clipboard and then just do this a lot like mmm Yeah, that's one.
speaker-1: I c I could I I could do it. I'm not
speaker-0: You could do it.
speaker-1: sure how helpful that would be. As much as I would I genuinely love a career in e ecology, but I feel like that feels like something that you need to get into when you are younger and come through it.
speaker-0: Tell me about it Tell me about it, Phil. Literally being made redundant and I have been looking at things that might more align with my morals in terms of like a job and you know, I'm very into the natural world, always have been, really into birds now. you know, looking at jobs that you could possibly get. It ain't happening I've just got stick with what I've done. I could do a like a lovely ornithological like course on the side just for like a bit of fun, but starting this career at thirty-three is just not happening. I was very miffed to find out that they're adding a GCSE of natural history into the curriculum.
speaker-1: That's like yeah.
speaker-0: Why didn't that like I wasn't ever told at school that nature was like an a legit job to go into?
speaker-1: Because you have to be a doctor or something, do it like a proper job, right?
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, no, I've I'm not there either. No. I really resent that I was told, No, no, you can't just do all of the creative subjects. You have to pick some boring subjects that you don't actually care about. That's not benefited me at all.
speaker-0: Those BTO courses, Phil. Yes. What can you tell me a bit more about that? So what BTO is, what courses they offer, and like how you found them and how you found actually doing those courses?
speaker-1: Sure. I think BTO stands for British Trust of Ornithology. That's probably close to the mark. and how did I stumble across those? I think I was just looking into bird ID courses or something on those lines. just interest in the sound side of it. And then all throughout the year, each month effectively, they've host a different flavour of course. so there's skull identification, this has his his own specific course. I think Corvids also get their own specific course. but then they do I think it's around the beginning of the season, like February, March time I think, they do kind of introductory just but stuff beginner bird call courses. There's a zoom call. I think it maybe costs ten pounds or some nominal amount, which is that's fine by me. I it gives you two weeks of a video call. where you join that, obviously none of the audience aren't speaking and the first ten minutes trying to talk. pensioners through how to operate zoom and specific but really like interesting stuff of if you have certain speaker settings or echo cancellation settings or something like that then it will actually potentially cut out bird song. Okay. because it's such a high frequency that that's part of what is trying to filter out. So they do run you through like just make sure this setting's unticked otherwise if you can't hear any birds that might be why. Also you might just be hard of hearing and can't hear them anymore and we're really sorry. But I can't fix that. as a genuine like just rig barrel process the go through.
speaker-0: So fair.
speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's totally valid. You can't really provide tech support for everyone, even though there is like floods of questions about that stuff. but they do record the whole thing and upload it to a Google Drive link, which you can then view later. and they just is at least the courses that I did I did a couple of courses which are just really beginner bird call identification. I think there was in like summer bird call identification, something like that. and they just three different presenters who just go through their own slides. They are showing you spectrograms, so just a visual representation over time of the different pitches to kind of help you try and it just they're just throwing memories and throwing ideas out and just seeing what sticks with people. So obviously you hear the bird, they try and say what it possibly sounds like and what it might relate to. And then maybe like a silly little rhyme or silly example, s whatever just helps.
speaker-0: It's helpful though, isn't it, when you link stuff together like that. It's a really good memory aid if you can come up with like a rhyme to it or a saying to go along to it, is you really helpful. Definitely.
speaker-1: Hundred percent. although now the only thing that stuck in my head now is there's some flavour of pigeon or dove. I can't think what it is off the top of my head, but I know that it's a Manchester United fan because the callers apparently
speaker-0: That's a collard dove. But I
speaker-1: I was thinking that was at the back of my mind.
speaker-0: I'm like I don't do sport, I don't do sport, so I found out that it can also wipe to I love you, I love you, and that feels much nicer to me. That's very But the one that I can just never get out of my head is wood pigeon, pigeon, wood pigeon So every time I'm anywhere and I'm not very deep sleeper, I wake up to anything, literally like a pin dropping. If there is a bloody wood pigeon outside and it's kicking off, my head can't then let go of the frickin' wood pigeon song and then I've just keeping myself awake because I'm all I'm doing is reciting the fucking song that the birds reciting outside. And I'm just like, go to sleep. Just go to sleep.
speaker-1: Luke Beerplugs, the the your best friend.
speaker-0: I've got I've got My favourite thing actually though about bird song is that my alarm is bird song. I downloaded like a a dawn, dawn chorus kind of soundscape that is now my because I heard that listening to birdsong is really good for your nervous system. So I can imagine that you must be the chillest person in the world then, Phil, if you're going out with a massive microphone.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I think that is part of it. It is just a really genuinely calming thing, and I'm surprised at how zen and calming the experience is. The downside of this, as one of my partners has discovered, having I kind of got her into birding, but she only really goes out with me when a visiting her from Swansea.
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-1: Going out delightful. going out with a parabolic mic does ruin birding from that point onwards. Because it's like we when you did get that part taken a away, like no, this experience isn't complete now. This isn't Zen anymore. I can I don't know, I'm too aware of everything. I can
speaker-0: Hear roads and I can hear other things and other people and chatting away and I just wanna listen to Yeah, no, I can't imagine that. It does. Maybe that's one of those things like don't want to maybe I don't want to open p pick peel back that bit 'cause that might just But I mean just even sitting gonna hide is great.
speaker-1: It's great, it's delightful, hundred percent. And I've taken I've you know, I've tried to be a bit more mobile with it. good Blashwood Lakes just obviously they do have heights there, but they've got plenty of other paths and trails, so just stopping for a bit in a path and hoping no one comes down for a bit and just seeing I can pick anything out of the trees or whatever else.
speaker-0: Yeah. There's a great site. It's huge and it's really varied, which is fantastic. And it also means that you can see like a thousand different things. Cause I know that they've got swift houses, they've got waders, obviously, they've got rare visitors that come over because they had a bitten last year. you know, get amazing turns, which is obviously fantastic, birds of prey, which are my one of my favourites as well. but yeah, those BTO courses. They sound fantastic and a really good gateway into into birds.
speaker-1: You just miss out on the chance to ask questions necessarily, although they give you all your their email addresses, so if you really did have questions you could still contact them after the fact. suggesting they're you know suggesting field guides and that kind of thing as well.
speaker-0: that's great.
speaker-1: Yeah, it it and I haven't done the more advanced specific courses, there's like wrapped ID courses, all manner of things, but they've just got things all throughout the year. just sounds like a really genuinely lovely resource.
speaker-0: So a nice like introductory course and then it's more like you can go into like specialities as of when you develop your skills.
speaker-1: Yeah, as when what interests you, what's around you, and you could do with help I Ding, there's yeah, gonna be a course out there almost certainly. Yeah, just running all throughout the yeah.
speaker-0: That's amazing. And I imagine that the people who are running the courses are probably really knowledgeable as well. So it's always good to obviously get onto those sessions so that you can ask any questions that you might have, much like have you got a rhyme or or some words that you can put to a call so that when I am out about in the field, would I be able to identify it off the bat? Or is it just gonna sound like an insane person screaming for a little while?
speaker-1: And they sent you a little bit of homework as well.
speaker-0: great.
speaker-1: So they just send out an audio file, or I think it might be in a YouTube link or something. We said, right, listen to this, just bird song, and identify as many birds as you can within it. which is great. That's a r it's a genuinely good exercise if you're trying to get more comfortable with it. As I said, there's so many videos on YouTube of just bird song, even like all the pet T V stuff you can put on via cat or your dog or whatever. Again, there's bird calls happening all the time in that, so it's a good chance just to sit there and try an ID through it. For a while, my previous car, it every time you started the car, it wanted to blare some audio at you. And for a while it was the radio and that was just really annoying. and then I realized it has an SD card slot. So I put bird song onto an SD card, and then my car just started with bird song, which was the again just such a chill, nice thing to start with.
speaker-0: Way to start. Phil, so you've got bird watching, or is he bird song and paddleboarding? Because I also heard that if you have open water within your field of vision for 20 or more minutes, it reduces like any strain on your mental capacity. Like it's so good, it's so good for you. And I had that the other day at Testwood Lakes actually, because I was like I was feeling a bit crap, and then I was like, it's sunny. there's birds singing. my god, there's water and I was there for about three hours just by myself, just lapping it literally lapping it up, and then just went home like
speaker-1: Feeling slightly better though. Yeah.
speaker-0: Fantastic Well my anxiety seems to be gone. When did that happen? And paddleboarding clearly needs to be the thing that I take up next over summer. The amount of times that I have almost fallen off of like a sea wall or sea cliff path because I'm literally this far from a sheer drop and I'm doing this because I'm trying to keep an eye of it's only a bird of prey, but I love bird of prey. So I'm just like this and then you take a little step backwards and you go, fuck and then like you think you're about to plunge to your death.
speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I I I I it's like obviously you've only been d talking meaningfully for an hour or whatever, but I get the impression that maybe d you're gonna get distracted really quickly. So
speaker-0: Maybe. Maybe. What sorry Phil, what j what that sounds like bullying. my
speaker-1: Sorry, sorry, I bought
speaker-0: god, that's so mean. You're not wrong though. I also had to get to the point where I had to actively tell myself do not walk and look through binoculars at the same time. Yeah. Like just stay just stay still. You can move later once you've, you know, actually just like stay looking. But yeah, that the seawall path that I did around Trebone Bay was very scary and I had to really I my partner was trying to take pictures and every time he went slightly too close to the edge I like, my god Stop Stop it Stop You're gonna die. You're going to die and I'm going to die and we're all going to die.
speaker-1: I would s I this I guess it brings on kind of a one of the few points and bits and pieces. the not bringing binoculars, not bringing scopes or whatever whilst you're out and about and still trying to commit to birding and doing that is genuinely wonderful because it becomes less about the lifelist and you just again you're just out there going, I'm just enjoying be sharing space with whatever this is. It might be an Egyptian goose, I'm pretty confident. I can't really tell. and that's okay. I don't have to constantly add things to a life list. I I guess it's my not a terrible birding mistake, but a mistake I did make when being fairly early on and getting the excitement of I everything's a life because I've only started recording this now for the first time and kinda getting stuck into that. I think my life list has only got like ninety nine birds on it. I think we're nearly at a hundred. Ninety nine as of yesterday with a strike, which is a pretty good
speaker-0: Great find. my god. Why was that?
speaker-1: Bad Basing Stoke Canal. It just shot across the screen.
speaker-0: So that's so cool.
speaker-1: but there was a a YouTube documentary. It's absolutely phenomenal. Highly, highly recommend it. Listers.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: yes, phenomenal. and it's there are two brothers who do a big year in America which is It seems like a crazy thing, but I can see why. Just trying to see competitively on eBirds, trying to log as many birds as possible across the year going across the entirety of US soundsponkers. and there's a w person in that Hannah Towtony got that's a ridiculous name to pronounce. but they did bring up the point of when you get so sucked into this just being a numbers game and just trying to rack up the lifelist, do you It's no longer about the birds, it's about the person and just their achievements. And for me, I it kind of realised I I am kind of losing the point of what I should be enjoying about this. As much as yeah, going out and touching grass is a bit cliche. It's really nice.
speaker-0: it does. Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-1: And yeah, it kinda it it was a nice kind of mental adjustment or reset for me just to go do you know what? Yeah. Sometimes it's okay that I don't go out with like a full microphone and equipment and whatever. And I'm just there to enjoy it. And maybe I can't ID that bird. That's alright. well. There are there are many little brown birds in the world and that's fine.
speaker-0: Little brown jobs. Yeah.
speaker-1: That's okay.
speaker-0: And that and it's fine. No, I I completely agree. So in March I took on the RSPB's birding challenge, which was to rack up X amount of kilometres of walking, running, swimming, whatever it was that you wanted to do, whilst also raising money for the RSPB. There was no challenge in terms of how many birds you needed to see. you know, take things off of your life list, get the X amount of lifers or whatever. It was literally for me. Did I get to go outside today and be in nature? Yes or no. Do I feel better for it? Yes or no. Did I get to see something fantastic? Maybe, but it's not, you know, I'm not actively seeking out. I've never been, I guess, the more twitcher variety of a bird watcher. I'm not, you know, doing a big year to me sounds insane and obviously incredibly expensive. I understand why people want to do it, but then it's turning it into a competition and not a hobby anymore. And I get ex excited seeing house sparrows outside in my garden because I think they're fantastic. I love seeing a pigeon. I go out regularly and feed pigeons. But if I got to see a shrike, I'd obviously lose my marbles. I cried when I saw a tawny owl. Like literally was out on a walk, couldn't believe it. Tear Pricking in my eye, and it's just if you were an owl, if you were to draw an owl, you'd probably draw it in one of like the holes in a tree. That was literally where it was. It couldn't have been a more perfect owl sighting. And I've never seen an owl in the wild. I've only ever seen them at like Bird Weld or Marwell Zoo or, you know, some kind of hawk conservancy or something like that. They're absolutely fantastic. But the guy who was with me, he was leading the walk, was like, yeah, she's just told me. Yeah, it's just Tonya.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: point but must you become I mean that's fantastic. You've obviously been doing it for like a thousand years, whatever, that's fine. And I'm sure that I'll maybe one day get to a point where I'm like and I have done actually in the garden where it's like, okay, okay, again it's a house sparrow, but can I just see like a robin? I haven't even seen a robin for a thousand years. What's going on? But you are right, I feel like the whole point of birding in in I think mine and your point of view is actually just to get out in the natural world and experience it and detach from modern city living lifestyle, you know, being around buildings that are way too tall, being around cars, pollution, volume of people. It's about get doing a little bit of mindfulness and just taking yourself away and actually reconnecting with nature. You know, as you say, like going out and touching grass is a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason. It's good for you. It's it's heal it's literally healing for for humans. And I think that we've done this thing lately, I think, as a species of human I think we've forgotten that we're part of a very balanced, delicate ecosystem. We're building data centers instead of, you know, looking after birding reserves. We have a trillionaire on the planet who could solve world hunger, but that's not happening, unfortunately. We've completely forgotten that actually we are part of the natural world. And I think that anything that you can do, whether it is taking binoculars out, where it if it is just taking a microphone out, whereas it's essentially raw dogging, like and just going going for a walk in in your in the park like I did earlier today, but you still feel a thousand times better just for for just it's the art of noticing. I noticed that bird song. I think I recognise that. That's fun. I don't quite recognise that one. That's new to me. But it doesn't matter because I don't care like it finding out what it is isn't the the the goal. It's just getting to hair.
speaker-1: Be a nice part of it. And there's certainly nothing bad aboutin last couple of years we've ended up in sort almost the gamification of birding. Yeah. And that people have realized, wait, this is Pokemon Go but in real life.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
speaker-1: Genuinely great. And if that's your reason to start, because that makes it fun and engaging, add ass, do it. Nothing wrong with that at all. it's just, yeah, just keep in mind at the same time that Just enjoy the space that you're sharing with whatever this wonderful little creature is and the amazing variety that we are lucky to be surrounded by.
speaker-0: Do you have a beginner birding tip Phil at all for anyone who's thinking about getting into birding who might not have quite crossed that threshold just yet?
speaker-1: Sure. I think that there is no downsides, there is no shame in using some of the apps and just the more accessible bits of kit. Like Merlin as we've mentioned, it's phenomenal. There's nothing bad about using those to help with your IDing. I still use it with my IDing. I'm certainly not professional or an expert or anything along those lines, but use whatever resources make it accessible for you and there is no bad way or wrong way to do it. You'll get a you know, there some diehard bodies like, nope, you have to use a book. or just like know what the different colored legs are and I look. I'll have a book, I'll have Merlin, I'd like look through the photos and stuff, I might listen to a call on the app, whatever the case may be, tell me try and figure out what it is. And also the threshold for you in IDing a bird and adding it to your life list doesn't need to be the same as anyone else's. For me personally, I want to definitely see it. And be happy that I have ID'd it and it's like I think for some people maybe they just have put Merlin on and go, I've seen there's been this thing and this thing and this thing near me, and I've probably heard it. That's good enough. And if that's that works for you, then great. Awesome. it's not quite enough for me, and that's fine too. I'm making it slightly harder on myself, but it doesn't matter. again, because the lifelist is not the thing that I'm constantly chasing as much as the nice little dopamine hit us. another one. Delightful. it's great.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's definitely day for me.
speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. But whatever makes it more accessible to you, there's no wrong way to do it, I would say.
speaker-0: You're very much like me, Phil. I kind of like to make it more more hard for myself in that I have to have definitely successfully visually ID'd it, not just having an app in front of me. When I was at work once, I work on a farming estate and my friend I was out for a walk, we were looking at the kestrels that are nesting there, and she said, There's a fire crest and I turned and looked in the tree. As you know, fire crests are very, very small. I think they weigh like five playing cards amount. It was like a twenty pence pee. Weirdly, that equates to a twenty pence pee. Really, really small, tiny it's too far away for me to be able to say, that is definitely a fire crest. But she went back and put a little tick in her book and I didn't do you know, I didn't go and put a sticker in mine because I can't a hundred percent sure that I've seen it. But what it meant was is that Later on, a month later or so, I was walking in the cod south Southampton Commonable places, had my bins out, was doing the challenge, took them out, Merlin picked it up, and I just stayed on this path, just bins completely still for about ten minutes, and one of them just came blobbing up in front of me. Now they move like they're in stop motion. They're very, very quick. They're complete they're always twitching around and stuff. It's actually quite difficult unless you've got a fantastic photographer on camera with you to be able to actually successfully capture a shot of one. But I was absolutely convinced that that's definitely it. Got my book with me. Merlin is literally kicking off because it is singing at the time. I've definitely seen one. Fantastic. But I've never really understood the hate about the apps. I do know that that might be a generational, how long have you been doing birding for thing? However, I think I'm quite lucky indeed people, especially older people that I've met birding, have completely embraced it and completely acknowledged that it is a great way for beginners to get involved in birding. Because you could just sit out, you know, in your garden and you might not know a a sparrow from a goldfinch and that's absolutely fine. But if you've got Merlin and you're sat out there and it's on and it's kicking off telling you that it's definitely a goldfinch, then brilliant, you've seen a goldfinch and it's it it it can actually be that passive. And I think that that's really important, isn't it?
speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. I didn't even realise that you can turn but a get Merlin recording and then just put it back in your pocket, lock your phone, and it would just keep on recording in the background. I didn't realise it could do that until I went out with a friend and they're like, that's why aren't they be doing that for longer? That's annoying. But also, fine. so yeah, even if you're just going out for your for your normal walk to work, whatever it is, who knows what you're gonna end up hearing or seeing, and then maybe that helps confirm an ID that you saw or whatever the case may be, and great.
speaker-0: Absolutely. The only issue with Merlin that I have found so far, not only when it's blustery and windy and it is isn't isn't quite able to use your phone microphone, is that you can't actually use the video function whilst you're recording on Merlin. So if you're trying to take videos of birds while you're out and about, I mean my camera's just full of videos of of very common birds. but then you go back onto Merlin, it does say like we recording stopped, do you want to start a new recording and it's quite frustrating. So I really would like to implore Merlin to fix that function because I'm assuming that I have enough sway in the birdie world at this point to be able to tell Merlin what to do.
speaker-1: Just trying to wait around there's there's no technical limitation there. It's all Merlin's fault, hundred percent.
speaker-0: If you if you Merlin, if you invent a microphone that works on a blustery day and you sold it for two hundred quid, you will make bank. Cornell University will have an influx of money for you to do more and then yeah, if you can fix the the video function versus recording, that would be sick. Thanks so much.
speaker-1: I don't know why they haven't thought of it. You put it so simply.
speaker-0: And to be honest, it's one of those things, isn't it, where if I've had the thought and I'm quite simple, then I imagine that a thousand other very, very clever people have also had that thought themselves and there must be a reason for it. I'm really simplifying it, thinking
speaker-1: Wait, wait.
speaker-0: just like just fix it. Do you f do you find wind really like problematic while you've got your microphone out, or is it able to kind of cut through with
speaker-1: So the parabolic has a little wind muff on the mic itself and then it has like a massive neo green sock almost that you I'll send you some photos.
speaker-0: Well that's
speaker-1: almost like a just a a bit of elasticated fabric that you stretch over the entire dish on the front of it. And that helps debuffer a lot of the wind. But if it's particularly strong wind, then it all I've got to pick up is wind, really. there's no real way to get around that. The the bigger issue is just the frequency range that wind is in. Is just so overpowering compared to very high frequency little birdsong and whatever else.
speaker-0: Yeah, because they must be really high frequency in comparison to right.
speaker-1: Very much so. Wins by sub base quite bat base, but that's not very helpful.
speaker-0: It's probably one of the most annoying things if you've ever been out birding, especially on like sea cliffs and stuff, and you've got your rain mac up and it just feels like you're being absolutely pelted by wind. When you then finally get to go to like a coffee shop or like a shop or anything and you take your hood down, you're like, my god. Respite finally. Wind is hot. I like I It's I hate it so much. I know that 'cause I did get to see a br brilliant sight of it was really, really choppy and it was really, really windy and I got to see some Gannett's actually surfing what looked like for fun out on the coast, which was brilliant. But I was having possibly the worst day of my life because I was just in gale force wind. Like you could you could stand against it and it would fuck you up. It was that strong. But yeah, it was it was lovely to see. But I do remember going and getting a coffee afterwards and just being like, fuck me, never again. Never going, never going. On it are never going to land's end on potentially the windiest day ever. And if you've ever been to Cornwall as well, the the weather changes within every five every five minutes probably. It's like basking sun, you're really hot, you've got fleeces on, you've got waterproofs on, and then the next minute it's like torrential downpour rain. And some of us didn't bring the covers for their binoculars, so then they were all like smeary and disgusting. And I was like, I think that's C what is that? What is that? Like an idiot.
speaker-1: Good. So prepared. Absolutely. Dan's fine.
speaker-0: It's absolutely fine. Look, you know, this is my first time on the planet. you know, it's fine. And now I know for next time to not do that. My cat's just jumped up if that's what you could hear just then, by the way. That's right. so where can listeners find you if you are on socials or uploading your recordings anywhere that could be used by them?
speaker-1: so in the very near future I need to prompt one of my partners to actually finish building the website. but nothing to do with nature that much. but love shiv as in love, romance, whatever, and shiv like a prison night. there's there's logic behind it, but we don't have time for that clearly. lovestreamselco.uk is where I'm going to be starting to post the different love events that I am. in the run up to organizing. I've been working within working, crewing, whatever, volunteering and making LARP events happen for the last seven or eight years and finally decided I'm gonna make my own. So obviously the first event that anyone would make is the late alternative reality, late nineteen nineties. where mass global flooding has happened to a impossible extent. So overnight, five years prior to the event, the sea level has risen by a hundred and fifty metres. So you've lost the Netherlands, you've lost certain parts of Europe and whatever else. Much of England and the UK has been ruined as well. T V has been thrown out the window because no one could keep it going. So radio has become the big thing. So the players are radio show presenters on an actual ship, which is an ex Navy ship which is docked in the middle of London in Canary Wharf. which is now owned by a scout group as it happens. So you can just hire out an actual ship for a weekend if you want to. And they're gonna actually produce a radio show during the actual end of the world where the sea level will rise by like two thousand meters or something insane. but they are gonna be presenting and making their own radio shows, have remote listeners who can listen to the r show and interact with it on web forums and emails and phone calls, and then everyone the will die eventually, I guess, around the world. And the players on the ship will be the last people left alive. and who ha though they have a ri responsibility and duty to keep on bro broadcasting because that might be the only comfort that some people have in the last moments of their lives. Crazy. that's that's the whole gist of the game.
speaker-0: my god, Phil, how did you even who came up with that concept or was it a quick review that
speaker-1: No, that was that was
speaker-0: came That's So cool. That's so cool.
speaker-1: Weirdly, I've ended up running actual radio stations with I totally don't own an actual FM radio transmitter and definitely haven't actually broadcasted an FM radio station for multiple weekends. Totally haven't done that before. but if I had done that then I would have done that for a couple of LARPs now and that was really fun, just pr making my own radio show. And so wanting to take the technical side of it away and I'll just deal with that and let other people just play around with it. Bus playing on the idea of being superstars and big celebrities and the interpersonal role play of how those relationships will change, 'cause if you're maybe having an affair whilst you're on the ship, that's cool and sexy until you realize that your family probably aren't gonna be around to go home to and all of a sudden this is kinda gross and disgusting and and that'll be very intense, I imagine.
speaker-0: A very interesting brain, Phil.
speaker-1: It's a weird place.
speaker-0: Cool thing.
speaker-1: yeah, no, it's LARP is great. I I could talk about that. This is not what this podcast is about, so I won't hijack it, LARP is wonderful. highly, highly recommend
speaker-0: I was obviously under the impression that LARPing was just like Renaissance fair esque. I didn't when you said nineteen nineties I was like, that's not computing to me. That's not right. That's not right. That's not the rules I've I've set for this thing that I have nothing to do with
speaker-1: That that's that's how you see it. The biggest event in the UK right now is called Empire, Empire LARP, which has n about four thousand participants four times a year. And that's a massive fantasy kind of Game of Thrones esque visually, I think, is the closest thing you can get to scale of game. You've got Dragonfest and whatever happening in Germany, which is like ten thousand people. It's crazy the scales these things get to. But there's a whole other flavour of it. I just did a superhero school LARP. Very much inspired by the boys and Invincible and X Men. Nice. and I ran a a scientific lab that definitely wasn't for torturing at all. And now definitely don't have a LARP safe blender which I could put people's hands inside of to test their superhero resilience and strength. Which has a motor that turns on and sounds terrible.
speaker-0: to come to this. This sounds awesome.
speaker-1: I will hit you up with links.
speaker-0: Yeah, do it. That's really cool. So it's not quite burning, but it's something ho it's hobby adjacent.
speaker-1: I have done burning at LARP and I have weirdly with this podcast I've been thinking, can I make burning into a LARP? Maybe
speaker-0: I was gonna say, like, as part of this, because obviously finding out that you've done LARPing and, you know, creative events and stuff, I was like, how could you like have you obviously in you know, incorporated birding into LARPing events, but also how could you maybe tailor a complete event around birding?
speaker-1: I've been thinking about it and I'm very fortunate. I've got a friend who is an ecologist and her parents are professional ecologists. and we've kind of batted ideas around. She's more into bats on that side of things, and now she does bat surface and that kind of thing. has also done ringing and whatever else, which I'd love to do, but again, how she didn't get into it, what happens? So I ha we we've talked about ideas and what you maybe could do. But all of those ideas have ended up being, but it clearly has to be a horror lap. So whilst you could have nice happy fun birdie time, then it will go very downhill when actually you discover horrible monsters or whatever. Which Or just the birds. or just the birds. Yeah. We're doing a hike across Scotland in the beginning of December this year for a horror LARP where we're a film crew who are actually gonna start the LARP on the train from Glasgow to the most remote train station in the UK, up in somewhere up in Scotland, which you can only get to by train and foot. No tr no roadways to it at all. and then we're gonna go on a hike for a day in what will probably be immense rain and maybe snow and whatever else and That'll probably be emotional in some way. I d I don't know how much burning will get done there, but you know, we'll find out.
speaker-0: my god, that sounds amazing. I love I love it. Like any any hobby is fantastic to me. I just think it's so interesting. It's really great hearing people obviously speaking so passionately about hobbies because I feel like I'm quite boring when I talk to people about birding and I go on about it and I feel like I whang on a lot about it to people who maybe don't necessarily find it cool. It was really funny because last summer or a couple of summers ago, my partner bought me these like little crappy knocks from from Amazon. And I remember taking them down to the common and on a really nice summer night and my friend came down and a couple of her friends came down and everyone was all like Mm got in cool binoculars Now, everyone thinks they're lame until they realise that they can have a go.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's pretty cool.
speaker-0: And actually then as soon as they see like a magpie or a crow through binoculars really close up and you can see like individual feathers, you know, what do their what do their beak feathers look like? What do their eyes look like up close, or those kinds of things? You kind of can see them going like
speaker-1: wait, hold on. This is kinda cool.
speaker-0: I think I understand this now. Where did you get these from? And you're like, they're only twenty quid, and they're like, my This is so accessible and then it's it's just so interesting. So I think that I believe that LARPing probably has a bit of a stigma to it. And I think she says a bit. LARPing has a stigma to it. Birding, I think, also has a stigma to it, or it it I believe it certainly did until maybe a couple of years ago when I think a lot maybe younger people got involved in it. Like I said, I think lockdown was the gateway for a lot of people. I think Gen Z are really getting into it. I mean I can only imagine what it's like to be a Gen Z or even a Gen A at this kind of time of life, you know, computers are everywhere, AI slot, data centers, etcetera, et cetera. You probably want to connect with the the natural world and actually remember that you are part of part of nature yourself. But yeah, it's interesting to watch the cogs turn with people who have come with a predisposed bias. Birding is not cool. Binoculars are for anorets who want to, you know, sit in hides on their own all day with a thermos. I can't think of anything better personally.
speaker-1: It sounds delightful, yeah.
speaker-0: But then like watching in real time go from, oof, this is lame. You've got you've got binoculars, have you, to, okay, I'm now wanting to buy like purchase them myself is really interesting. And I could imagine like my own biases are not against laping, but what I believe laughing to be and then hearing this like really cool thing where it's gonna be on, you know, a ship in Canary Wharf in the nineteen nineties in some kind of alternate reality where there's been a massive flood and let's be honest, it's not Probably that would now that El Nino is on its way. Like you might have to put some trigger warnings in on it all over itself because the
speaker-1: like my the scale of what's happening in my event is just insane. it couldn't possibly happen. But luckily some someone on YouTube has made simulations of what would happen. So I know exactly when each country and stuff will get lost. Switzerland does amazingly well. They hold out right to the end.
speaker-0: So basically go to Switzerland not only for them holding out very well but also for their assisted dying.
speaker-1: Mm. Yep. Hundred persa I mean it also looks like it's absolutely stunning place to be.
speaker-0: Does look beautiful.
speaker-1: my goodness. I have a friend who lives there and I'm jealous. It makes me joke.
speaker-0: I've been thinking about like doing as I as I've got John Older, I'm less like you know, just thinking about beach holidays all the time, like really want to do Europe, really want to do like walking holidays and stuff like that, and now being able to think like not only do I want to do those, but I could also take my binoculars along. I could also look at birds, you know, that we might not get over here or ones that maybe when they do come over here are just like really infrequent, weird visitors that we're not meant to get.
speaker-1: Or you just hear them with a different accent, because they do get different accents when they live in different places.
speaker-0: did hear that and I did hear as well that cows have regional accents in the UK.
speaker-1: I haven't done about cows, but that's incredible. I I I I can see that. I can see that.
speaker-0: See, once you start unpicking like hobbies in the natural world, you start picking up really weird niche information that you'll never need and might well ostratosize you at a party.
speaker-1: That's fine. But like I just don't go to those and that that seems to sort me out quite well.
speaker-0: For it.
speaker-1: that's why I just do LARP. It's a it's a great time.
speaker-0: It's sociable, it's fun, it's interesting.
speaker-1: I've sailed on a actual living pirate ship around Italy, pretending to be a pirate for four days, and firing the cannons at quests. Yeah, a hundred percent.
speaker-0: I think I might need a new hobby.
speaker-1: Yeah, no, it's a good time. It's a real real good time. And you get to do things who never do. Yeah. But yeah, where to find me? Loveship.co.uk. eventually we'll have something on it. on YouTube, I did make a channel, I need to upload to it more. Parabolic Nature is where I'm trying to upload audio from my parabolic mic of various places that I end up going to. And I need to get back on the bandback on that. Maybe this podcast will be the reason that I do that. and yeah, I think that's probably the only places anyone can really find me.
speaker-0: Awesome. Well them in the comments so people can have a look. Caption obviously is what I meant to say there. And then hopefully we can hold you to some account, Phil, and you can start getting on your your uploading your audio.
speaker-1: Yeah, no. I I w I will endeavor too.
speaker-0: But thank you endlessly for coming on this podcast, Phil. You're one of the first peop like people to reach out to me to come on it and it's been such an interesting conversation and it's just so brilliant to listen to the the different ways in which we all kind of share the the same hobby or as we found out, multiple hobbies.
speaker-1: Well, you know. That's been a really lovely, lovely time. Thank you for having me.
speaker-0: That's all for this episode of Winging It. If today's conversation made bird watching feel a little more approachable, or even just made you notice the birds outside your window, then I've done my job. I'll be back soon with more stories, tips, and chats from across the birding world, from first sightings to lifelong obsessions. If you enjoyed the show, follow or subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and share it with someone who might enjoy discovering birds a little differently. Details can be found in the caption. Until then, keep it simple, stay curious, and just keep winging it.
speaker-1: I mean I do look at them as well to to to throw it out there. for me it started back from being a live events engineer and being a sound engineer as well. Very cool. just sound, music, all of that's just been a huge part of my life. and then when I wanted to get into burning, I kind of almost needed to find a reason for myself to to go out and do it. It just w I for whatever reason it didn't feel like it was quite enough or quite as exciting enough to Just go out with some binoculars or a scope or something. And then thought, well, I could get a new toy. That would make it more fun, right? kind of. Absolutely.
speaker-0: Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-1: And I d I wanted a parabolic microphone, I just thought they were really an interesting thing for ages, but everything I found was geared towards the life sports event scene and you're looking at thousands of pounds for a thing which is ridiculous. I just happened to Google and come across a UK manufacturer called Innercore, I think. Who was selling them for like a hundred and thirty quid or something like that?
speaker-0: Okay, that's not that bad. I thought you were gonna say like thousands. I was like, I couldn't cope with that.
speaker-1: No, it's it's really it's just a sensibly priced thing. and then I had a field recorder anyway from previous work, so
speaker-0: It's only excuse to get a new toy, really, isn't it? Because I had some like twenty quid bins from Amazon. but then as soon as I really got into it, I was like, well obviously I need to spend £250 on Tamara SPB ones. Obviously. And then as I was like I was down at Aarn, the site in Aarn that they have, which is fantastic. I've never actually seen any birds there really, like outside of all the normal ones, which is a shame because I know it's a real good site and where obviously Spring Watch go. but they have a scope down there. And I was like, well, obviously that's my next that's my next big purchase. So it's like thousands of pounds. I was like, yes, it's going to be fantastic and I'm gonna be the best burder in all the land, but actually I'm just gonna be me going down like Riverside Park over the road just looking at looking at a bloody seagull. That's actually a red flag, I shouldn't have said seagull.
speaker-1: no.
speaker-0: I'm gonna get picked up on that. There's
speaker-1: You've earned it.
speaker-0: no such thing as a seagull.
speaker-1: No, only girls, of different flavours.
speaker-0: I've had a problem today though, because I went out on a walk and I saw loads of black-headed girls. And the problem is with black-headed girls is that A, they don't have black heads, they're brown, so there's another naming issue that they've got. Little gulls also have a black head. and then there's also Mediterranean gulls.
speaker-1: I was just thinking, yeah, that's similar as well.
speaker-0: So I may well have had three lifers in that respect, but I probably would never know about it because I don't ever really go out with experts, it's just usually me and my little RSPB pocketbook just going around going, Well yeah, that's probably it So you've been a sound tech before. So you're obviously very into music and stuff. So where did that come from
speaker-1: way back when in primary school playing brass instruments and did that all throughout school and college, playing with Hampshire and whatever else. which is really really fun. but I've also been a real techie. So trying to find a bridge between the two was interesting. ended up doing a degree in music technology. very good so recording studios, sound design, that kind of thing. and found that my love of tech was more than my love of playing music. So I fell off the bandwagon, got more into the tech side of things. and then became a theist technician by accident mostly.
speaker-0: Bringing it back to birding though, Phil, so obviously sound and you're saying that, you know, you needed a maybe a reason to get back into it and obviously to buy a new toy as well. Well who was it or what was it that actually got you into birding, going out in the natural world and listening to the bird song?
speaker-1: that's the most cool answer. I just really embraced my granddad era a couple of years ago. I just committed to do you know what I'm I'm an old man really. I'm not that old in the grand scheme of things, but I just embraced being an old man. and yeah, th there was there's never been a person in my life or a grandparent or whatever who's been interested in birds or nature. as a kid I remember I used to trace birds out of field guides and that kind of thing. Which was just I don't know why I did that. I just happened to end up doing it as kids do, I guess. Brilliant. so yeah, a couple of years ago I just finally committed to right, well I've always had an interest in them and thought they were cool. I don't really know that much about them, but there's no time like the present. The tituled haven is literally five minutes up the road from me, and I've neglected the fact that it's such a good site. as the first site I properly went to and then got completely spoiled by amount of hides and stuff they have there. And now going to other sites and going, wait, hold on. Is that not I thought the norm was like a billion hides, like.
speaker-0: That is not the standard at all. And sometimes with sites, you're even lucky if you can find a toilet. Like that they're just they're they're hardly a thing. But Titchfield I mean Titchfield Haven, what an amazing site. You're literally spoilt for choice, aren't you? I'd say Blashford Lakes as well, if you've been down there is also absolutely fantastic for the hide. So on your amazing microphone film,
speaker-1: Yes.
speaker-0: what has been your favourite bird call so far?
speaker-1: I think lap wings have been the most interesting, just because they sound like laser guns. And that was again, first time down to Schwarth, first time using the mic, not really having any clue about what I was gonna be seeing or hearing. And then to hear it so with that mic, it is almost like you've got a microphone right next to the bird, even though you are very far away. So you're right up in there. you're hearing all the like the splishes and splashes of the like differ like wading birds diving under the water and It's just a really it becomes a really zen experience. 'cause obviously you can still hear stuff from a hide, but wearing so much closer, it's almost like a white noise kind of thing. And then as you're watching birds trying to identify them and stuff, I don't know, it just becomes a almost meditative kind of thing.
speaker-0: I bet you could do really well selling that as like a like a calming sleeping mix.
speaker-1: Do know what? It happens that many other people have also thought their recording birds on would be a good idea. There's a bit of it there's a there's a few bits out there. It has
speaker-0: Yeah, I can imagine.
speaker-1: occurred to me, I have wanted to try and bridge it with like kind of composing some light, chill music with that. but unfortunately I just have too many hobbies and I'll get around to it one day, I guess. I
speaker-0: I asked you about any really amazing birding in real life stories that you might have and you mentioned that there was a very interesting time in the Netherlands. Please do expand about that 'cause I had a giggle about that for about five minutes and had to take myself away and then come back to it.
speaker-1: I would I mean I think I did laugh at the time 'cause of how ridiculous it all was. But I was heading to a laugh event in the Netherlands, so travelled across from the UK to there and as is wont to happen, I'm a hairy man, who has a kind of vague tan. I get randomly searched pretty frequently. it's so random. and as it happened in the queue waiting to go through passport control, what they decided to search my vehicle. 'Cause you know, you might be hiding people in there or whatever else. No, you never know. You never know. my car was packed to the gills with lights and sound equipment. Thank goodness they didn't open up the crate that is I call it the science crate, just full of scientific bottles and vials and weird like UV chemicals and stuff, just as props for set dressing. but it definitely looks real dodgy. they didn't look at that one, thankfully. and yeah, they they did catch the attention of the radar dish, the parabolic mic in the backseat, which you could definitely use to try and spy on people and whatever else is kind of what it was originally designed for. so there's this potential maybe security risk there of why has this hairy guy got all of this random stuff and what is that? they didn't seem to believe me fully when I said, it's for bird watching. With no real explanation than that. Thankfully. On the other side of the car one of the border patrol guards opened up the car door and my bright prink pink crocs fell out. And there was
speaker-0: No, come
speaker-1: Yes, of course they're mine. Yeah, and luckily that really for some reason distracted them enough to forget about the radar dish and decide I didn't have anyone in my car. and off I went.
speaker-0: Spike here. I mean now that you mention it, do you know what? I'm so naive that I was like, Yes, what an amazing way to watch like to listen to bird. Never actually thought of the really like negative ways that you know Yeah.
speaker-1: yeah, I you could I've definitely ended up hearing conversations from people on the other side of a site accidentally just 'cause if they're in line with you know you're not hearing anything meaningful, be like, okay, I don't know where they are, that's weird.
speaker-0: I wouldn't be able to stop with that. I I'd be an absolute menace. When I was about five, my nan and granddad took me out birding, so they gave me a pair of binoculars. Now what do you think a five year old is going to do walking down a residential street with binoculars?
speaker-1: I guess just looking at everyone around and really up close.
speaker-0: And in their houses.
speaker-1: really?
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Incredible. Incredible.
speaker-0: So I was told many a time, many a time on that one trip, but also for subsequent trips afterwards, please stop looking in people's houses. And then because I knew that that was wrong, I then started doing it secretly from their house upstairs. So I was looking in people's bedroom windows.
speaker-1: wow.
speaker-0: Yeah, I've yeah. Luckily nothing that scarred me for life.
speaker-1: Yeah, that could have been real spicy.
speaker-0: But thinking about, you know wrong use of equipment. I was basically a pervert at first. And
speaker-1: How are you doing?
speaker-0: now if I had access to a parabolic microphone, I think I just would not be able to stop myself from obviously listening to birds because that's very important. But also definitely listening into people's conversations because I just couldn't stop I just I I'm so nosy.
speaker-1: There's something about I see I'm not nosy and there's something about she goes, You're ruining my recording. I c this could have been a great recording and now I can hear motorbikes and I can hear you chatting and chainsaws and the downside of being able to get really
speaker-0: You've learned how to protect your peace very, very well. Whereas I like to invite chaos into it at all points, every day. I will listen in my garden, not just a bird song, but as soon as my neighbours start talking, I'm immediately up like a mere cat and I am listening in straight away. Has it happened to you ever that you've got to a point where you're like, right, okay, I know what you sound like, now move over and like I wanna hear something else now? Or is just all bird song? just still interesting to you as it was the first time that you heard it.
speaker-1: So so it's Weirdly, as much as I do love Lapwings, there is a point where I'm like, alright guys, pack it in. There's other there's I think there's a turnover there. That's exciting. That was new. and I'd rather pay attention to that, but you guys just won't shut up. So that that does that does happen. But I try to vary up where I'm visiting rather than going to the same place over and over, and that then just changes the soundscape that you're getting.
speaker-0: That's really interesting. So how how far have you been? Lots of different sites in Hampshire, or are you travelling actively, like across county lines so that you can go to different sites?
speaker-1: Not too actively with that yet. my weirdly I my powder warding has ended up taking me further afield than my burning has as such. But I've been over to Wales and been visiting one of my partners. I did do some burning out in the Netherlands that on that trip where I took the mic at a day off, got to see my first grey legg geese, got to see my first woodpecker, I think it was a excellent middle wood yeah, some flavour of woodpecker. god.
speaker-0: I gonna say which one? You got a name no phil, you got a name no phil. There are two.
speaker-1: that's not helpful. It's in my lifelist somewhere. it's not middle of the name, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it's good enough. Yeah, I I've I so I tried to travel around a bit. this could segue into I think one of the questions you prompted was maybe unusual burning encounter or something.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. Love an unusual birding encounter.
speaker-1: Well, I think I might top this for the start of the podcast for anyone else so that they can beat me.
speaker-0: my god, go on.
speaker-1: it's not necessarily i I it's kind the circumstances were I guess unusual for a brick. so I was visiting a friend out in the Netherlands. I don't just go to the Netherlands, but it for
speaker-0: It feels like you do.
speaker-1: some reason. no, for some reason there's a lot of burning there. and on our trip, the first stop was gonna be a luxury spa complex. we don't do spas right in the UK. We're dreadful. Correct. that site had it was like fifteen different saunas, loads of different bards, hot tubs, coal plungers, you name it. a cinema sauna, which is great. so you're watching a film and there's music and there's lights and it's amazing. So this all happening. th I've been awake for about thirty hours at this point because of flight timings and stuff, which is a lot. But I think it was very chill days, that was fine. and the complex overlooks beautiful lake. There's a few of the saunas which overlook the lake. and it's a fully nude sauna. So butt naked real tired, pretty sleepy, just sitting in a sauna watching birds and stuff. it's amazing. That's honestly an exceptional way to bird.
speaker-0: That I don't think that anyone is ever I don't know how many episodes or seasons of this are gonna do, but regardless of that, I don't believe that anything is gonna top that. And what what
speaker-1: Like like coming in strong.
speaker-0: an amazing way to connect with nature by being the most
speaker-1: In so many ways.
speaker-0: That's fantastic.
speaker-1: Yeah, that was good. I love that. Highly recommend it.
speaker-0: That's really funny. Why don't Phil? That's absolutely brilliant. Saying that, leading off from that, this does fit. I I a couple of months ago joined Southampton Animal Action because I got really, really into so I actually got Turkey Twizzlers banned in my school when I was seven because I saw an ITV news segment that morning about how the turkeys were kept in these really horrific battery farmed conditions and I basic I was already a vegetarian at that point. I grew up veggie. but every so often was allowed a bit of meat, but we were quite poor and it was quite expensive. So wasn't a normal thing in my life. So I wrote to my school that day and was like, You need to take these off the menu. This is disgusting. And I like wrote this really compassionate, like amazing letter to the head. And she immediately came back and was like, Cellulus, that's fantastic. We'll take them off, no problem. About a week later, all the other students cottoned on to the fact that there was no more Turkey Chwizzler like Tuesdays anymore. And they all started like her like being very angry about it. And the teacher would basically say, Somebody complained about them, so we don't have them anymore. And everyone was like, my god, when we find out who that was, we're gonna we're gonna kill them. We're really upset about it. And I was like, Yeah, grab the pitchforks, lads. Like, my god, I who Who's amongst us would have done that?
speaker-1: We did basically ban crack primary school children. Like
speaker-0: Memory, they were fucking delicious. But once you've seen that, I feel like it's really difficult to get back to it. But leading on from that, I joined Southampton Animal Action because yeah, I've got like a background in, you know, being an animal activist. I joined Greenpeace when I like a love animals, all this kind of stuff. I was talking to one of the leaders of the groups. And he was like, So how did you like get into all of this? And I was like, I've just been like a hardline naturist like for years now.
speaker-1: Ha ha ha. I am bold. I don't
speaker-0: Like two hours pass and he's read it but he's not replied. And I he then responds like Wow, that's really cool. How long have you been doing that for? And I was thinking like gosh, that's a really weird like this all now feels like really strange and really weird. Like did I definitely say the right thing? So I googled it and no I did not say the right thing. I meant naturalist. Yeah. The worst part about that is that that wasn't the first time I've told somebody that I'm interested.
speaker-1: Just just own it now at this point. Just just come here.
speaker-0: Well
speaker-1: If you say that, I highly recommend budding butt naked, apparently a stray. Well It's better if there are saunas and hot tubs and
speaker-0: I was gonna say, I think that sounds fantastic. And I would say that I did grow up as one of those like naked hippie children running around 'cause I had a really hippie mum and you know, I was I was I was veggie before veggie was cool and eating lentils before they became mature. yeah. I think that sound that sounds completely up my street. I don't recommend going around people you know, telling people that you're a naturist though, if you are one. 'cause that was No
speaker-1: An easy mistake to make. Or I mean it probably would be something that somebody's so proud of to say though.
speaker-0: I mean, I'm doing it for I don't know if you know about the I don't know if you had them down your way, but we have a group of naturists that go around on bicycles every so often in Southampton. So you'll be at Bedford Place having a pint and then all of a sudden you'll see a flurry of seventy year old naked bodies on bicycle seats.
speaker-1: I am thankful that I haven't witnessed that. Yeah.
speaker-0: I do remember the first time I saw it, I genuinely was like, Am I on drugs and I don't know that I've been drugged? 'Cause I can't understand what's happening. They're all listening to like EDM techno music.
speaker-1: You sound like to me now. This sounds great.
speaker-0: It's all like suspiciously tanned all over. There's like a penis. my god, that's a penis. my god, there's another one.
speaker-1: Ha ha ha ha
speaker-0: You can't make it up. You literally just can't. I mean, it's great, it's good for them. But I didn't know that there was a world in which I could, you know, link being butt naked and, you know, enjoying birds. Assuming that you didn't have the microphone with you.
speaker-1: No no that would be that would have been weird.
speaker-0: Interesting how you can go from like I think bird people who bird are interested in the natural world seem to seek out anything that can connect us to nature more widely as well. It's kind of like a gateway drug. You're like, well I care about birds, so I care about the environment, so I care about sustainability, so I care about different types of plants and native plants and what do plants do and essential oils made from. plants and it kind of goes on this like massive journey. I don't know if you found that, but it's something that I've definitely noticed along the way.
speaker-1: I think for me it was it we ended for me it ended up being in the gateway for powderboarding and canoeing and just realising driving across the motorway every day, driving across the River Hamble every day and going on that
speaker-0: I was gonna say What going down the jolly sailor and having a fight and going paddleboard?
speaker-1: Never done that. I'm too too committed to actually the paddle the paddling part of it. 'Cause we're I launched from Swannick Marina, so it's lit the Jolly Sailor's away. It wouldn't be worth it. Although I have seen the seal, just by the Jolly Sailor. Have you? Yeah, it was really close like a couple of meetings away. That's really sweet.
speaker-0: Amazing. I didn't that's so good. I knew that there was one down there, but I've never seen it.
speaker-1: Mm. Yeah, I that's the w it was it I got a new startup paddle boarding last year around September, October, so technically the end of the season. And paddled all over winter, which it it not many people do that, weirdly enough. But it meant that I've had rivers and canals and all manner of places just to myself. and then obviously there's more bird life and wildlife out there as well. got my first Kingfisher sighting, having like months of burning And not see a kingfisher, even though that's ridiculous given that where we live but everything. In it. Yeah,
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah.
speaker-1: yeah. and then Chichester Canal was on that and my second time paddleboarding, I think, and I like, well there's one, great. Why don't they just do paddling sooner? That was way easier. And just was paddling down up and down a canal when the kingfisher were just kind of chasing jumping further along.
speaker-0: We had one sighting at Blashford Lakes, one, and it lasted for a split second. Yeah. Because we heard it. Cause usually what happens is is what I've been told anyway, is you hear them make the little noise and then you're just meant to watch them just dart and you don't really get to enjoy their just majesty. I mean they're absolutely stunning. And I remember we because me and my partner down there, we saw one, and it was one of those things where it was like I've seen them on the telly. Other people have talked to me about them. I've seen pictures of them. I know that they're blue. But my god, I didn't realise like how blue, how beautiful they are. But it's almost otherworldly in terms of colour because blue doesn't appear that much in the natural world. So having something just that iridescent is absolutely fantastic. This sounds like I'm gonna have to get into paddleboarding, 'cause you're obviously managing to get round to places that you might not be able to. Is that kind of the aim?
speaker-1: Big time. Big time. And especially if you're out on a canal or something that's which is going away from towns or city centres. You're effectively in the middle of a field with a bunch of wading birds or whatever who don't really encounter that many people, so they're a bit less skittish or whatever else. I've been not chased, thankfully, but just had to figure out a route around swans and signets and all that nonsense. I have we had a grey heron kind of running up ahead of us yesterday on a canoe at Basel State Canal. it's a really interesting way. Obviously you can't take your bins out. There's no ornaments. No
speaker-0: Harness I'm thinking there's got to be a way of me being able to do that because w I went out today without any bins and there were two bloody cormorants just on the other side of the river that I can't see. So I was just like, my god, they're amazing. Try to film it. Just like try to film it. But obviously they just look like two black blobs just on the screen and I'm like, that's so annoying 'cause I love them so much. I think they're absolutely magnificent. They're probably one of my favourite birds actually.
speaker-1: Like properly saw them was at Blashford Lakes. Yeah. And I just didn't expect them to be in trees. Like Why you you're like a dinosaur bird in a tree. What's going on? Get ac no. There's one of you over there basking, I guess, or whatever is doing. That looks more logical.
speaker-0: A literal dinosaur. Yeah. Yeah, when you see them on posts in the water and they're doing the thing with their 'cause obviously they're I think they're one of the only birds that's not waterproof, so they have to have their wings out so that they can dry them. But yeah, seeing them in a tree or seeing any wader or wild you know, waterfowl in a tree. We were in Southampton Conroe last summer and there was just a duck in a tree. And I was like I'm sure I'm sure that there's a glitch in the matrix somewhere. This isn't right. I n I know that you're not meant to be there. Do you know that you're not meant to be there? This is not like I didn't I didn't know that that was normal behaviour. It turns out they're just birds go in trees and that's But yeah, see
speaker-1: I guess.
speaker-0: seeing a Cormorant for the first time is is always I think one of my core memories. Going down to Lymington, going down to Key Haven Marshes, which is a fantastic site and We were just waiting in a traffic jam going into Lymington and you go over a bridge and there's water either side of you. And I remember just turning around and going, Bloody hell, what the fuck is that? That's massive. I'd only just started like really getting into birding at that point. And I just got my little book out and I was like looking at it and I was like, my god, I think that that's an actual living dinosaur. Look at this. And I'm putting it in front of my partner's face and he's my god, I'm literally trying to drive. And I'm like, No, it's amazing. There's a cornoran, it's a cornoran. The only thing with those is that sometimes I like misidentification a lot. I think when you're first getting into birding, especially, and I don't know if you have it probably with sound as well. A lot of sounds are very similar with birds, and I say that a lot of visual identification of birds is really difficult too. So when I was in down in Cornwall, we went on a two hour boating excursion, fantastic, to Puffin Island. Ironically, no puffins.
speaker-1: Obviously, yeah.
speaker-0: Obviously. And I got really seasick afterwards, so that was like a ten out of ten experience for me. Turns out I don't do boats. Paddleboarding, yes, boats absolutely hard.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: And we saw a bird and I was like, it's a Cormoran and they went no, it's got a really snazzy hairdo. But what what is that? It's a shag. Obviously, I've never seen one before. So and and there was nobody on that boat near me at least with binoculars or any seemingly you know, they were just there because it was a touristy kind of thing, just to do, which is fantastic, obviously, to go and see these amazing red birds, but I'm like But I'm trying to identify everything. I don't know what anything is.
speaker-1: Ha ha.
speaker-0: The only one that did pop up that I like hard line, my god, I had like a I actually had to sit down was a gannet flying past. Just shot past the boat. Like split second, my partner got out of his camera and like got this amazing picture of it. It was fantastic. But yeah, misidentification I fight like listening to Chetty's warblers, Reed Warblers, and Sedge Warblers to me personally just sounds like a load of noise. They're all just going like We're just kinda like shouting. The only one that I can really identify off the bat is a wren. And we've nicknamed it Techno Bird because it goes like pew pew pew So we just call them techno birds now. Do you have any weird and wonderful nicknames that you've started to give birds now that you're obviously keeping an eye on how they sound and listening out for them.
speaker-1: Okay, this is probably the best time to admit. I love bird calls and the the sound side of it. I am dreadful at audio call ID. I'm absolutely abysmal at it. which is why I did I've done a couple of the BTO courses online. which are genuinely really helpful. they come up with some very bizarre memory aids and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. But some also just genuinely helpful bits and pieces. and that Th th th the downside of that kind of thing is when you're trying to learn something like a blackbird, or a missile thrusher and you go, so what's the sandout feature of this bird? that it doesn't repeat the same thing twice. Great, that's really helpful. Thanks, Blackbirds.
speaker-0: And then you have to realise what each individual call sounds like to put next to each other to then identify them. Yeah, they're a tickle, aren't they? They're a bucket. Mistlethrushes, I think if it sounds like an insane person, it's a mistlethrash. No.
speaker-1: That's not as helpful as you might think. That makes sense to you.
speaker-0: Make sense to me. There's actually a correct way of doing it. And now obviously I can't remember which one's which, but mistlethrashes compared to song thrushes are big, chonky guys. Yeah. And one of them's got upside-down hearts for spots and one of them's actually got spots.
speaker-1: Okay, okay.
speaker-0: Again, being a complete well, not complete novice, but being quite a novice in this field, I'm still not at the point where I could actively identify, you know, a thrush if I didn't have Merlin out. But that's why Merlin is obviously so fantastic. The only issue that I found with it, and I know that a couple of people are looking into this, is as soon as it's windy, as soon as there's people around, as soon as there's, you know, a a melee of birds around you, like lots of different types of waders, for some reason it's just picking up a chif chak that's behind you. It's not picking up everything. It does a lot of like hearing a bird, but it doesn't then actually confirm which one it is. But I can imagine that having a microphone is probably really useful because you could probably put all of that audio into Merlin.
speaker-1: You thought, but you can't. Can you not? I've tried and it just didn't get anything from it, which I thought was really bizarre. I don't know if
speaker-0: Please.
speaker-1: it's designed around phone microphones and that kind of thing. I've got no idea how it works in that sense. It already didn't work.
speaker-0: That's interesting. I know a couple of people online that I follow, especially a chap called Tim who's big in Birding. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's been testing out various microphones that could possibly link with your phone to assist Merlin to enhance it a little bit more. but it's very strange that you can't upload audio to Merlin for it to then identify because
speaker-1: Which yeah.
speaker-0: Can do it with photos, can't like I know that you if you to photo and you're not quite sure, I mean it's not it's pretty fifty fifty to be fair, because it's told me that god, what was it? A greater white throw was a blackbird. They look completely different. They aren't even the same guy, like not even like even a a smidge and it gets really confused, but other times it can be quite useful. But I would have thought that uploading let's be honest, like quite high quality audio for them to utilize and put into their systems to not only assist you but also to assist other people possibly would have been like a number one, you know, thing that they would be after.
speaker-1: But then again there's not many Anaraks like me with a radar dish going outside.
speaker-0: In all fairness, I don't I don't think I've ever seen somebody out there with a massive fuck off spy mic, so
speaker-1: I've now gone to many, many reserves and if I got like a ticket wreath or something where you have to pay, I'll just be like, well you hit you hit the survey today like no I'm just a strange man. No, you're just
speaker-0: Yes, you could probably get like in the back rooms of like some RSPB sites and get some really cool stuff from them.
speaker-1: Probably, but I feel like they'd expect me to actually know what I'm doing. Like, I've recorded it, what do you want done now?
speaker-0: Just just say that there's a survey, just bring a clipboard and then just do this a lot like mmm Yeah, that's one.
speaker-1: I c I could I I could do it. I'm not
speaker-0: You could do it.
speaker-1: sure how helpful that would be. As much as I would I genuinely love a career in e ecology, but I feel like that feels like something that you need to get into when you are younger and come through it.
speaker-0: Tell me about it Tell me about it, Phil. Literally being made redundant and I have been looking at things that might more align with my morals in terms of like a job and you know, I'm very into the natural world, always have been, really into birds now. you know, looking at jobs that you could possibly get. It ain't happening I've just got stick with what I've done. I could do a like a lovely ornithological like course on the side just for like a bit of fun, but starting this career at thirty-three is just not happening. I was very miffed to find out that they're adding a GCSE of natural history into the curriculum.
speaker-1: That's like yeah.
speaker-0: Why didn't that like I wasn't ever told at school that nature was like an a legit job to go into?
speaker-1: Because you have to be a doctor or something, do it like a proper job, right?
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, no, I've I'm not there either. No. I really resent that I was told, No, no, you can't just do all of the creative subjects. You have to pick some boring subjects that you don't actually care about. That's not benefited me at all.
speaker-0: Those BTO courses, Phil. Yes. What can you tell me a bit more about that? So what BTO is, what courses they offer, and like how you found them and how you found actually doing those courses?
speaker-1: Sure. I think BTO stands for British Trust of Ornithology. That's probably close to the mark. and how did I stumble across those? I think I was just looking into bird ID courses or something on those lines. just interest in the sound side of it. And then all throughout the year, each month effectively, they've host a different flavour of course. so there's skull identification, this has his his own specific course. I think Corvids also get their own specific course. but then they do I think it's around the beginning of the season, like February, March time I think, they do kind of introductory just but stuff beginner bird call courses. There's a zoom call. I think it maybe costs ten pounds or some nominal amount, which is that's fine by me. I it gives you two weeks of a video call. where you join that, obviously none of the audience aren't speaking and the first ten minutes trying to talk. pensioners through how to operate zoom and specific but really like interesting stuff of if you have certain speaker settings or echo cancellation settings or something like that then it will actually potentially cut out bird song. Okay. because it's such a high frequency that that's part of what is trying to filter out. So they do run you through like just make sure this setting's unticked otherwise if you can't hear any birds that might be why. Also you might just be hard of hearing and can't hear them anymore and we're really sorry. But I can't fix that. as a genuine like just rig barrel process the go through.
speaker-0: So fair.
speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's totally valid. You can't really provide tech support for everyone, even though there is like floods of questions about that stuff. but they do record the whole thing and upload it to a Google Drive link, which you can then view later. and they just is at least the courses that I did I did a couple of courses which are just really beginner bird call identification. I think there was in like summer bird call identification, something like that. and they just three different presenters who just go through their own slides. They are showing you spectrograms, so just a visual representation over time of the different pitches to kind of help you try and it just they're just throwing memories and throwing ideas out and just seeing what sticks with people. So obviously you hear the bird, they try and say what it possibly sounds like and what it might relate to. And then maybe like a silly little rhyme or silly example, s whatever just helps.
speaker-0: It's helpful though, isn't it, when you link stuff together like that. It's a really good memory aid if you can come up with like a rhyme to it or a saying to go along to it, is you really helpful. Definitely.
speaker-1: Hundred percent. although now the only thing that stuck in my head now is there's some flavour of pigeon or dove. I can't think what it is off the top of my head, but I know that it's a Manchester United fan because the callers apparently
speaker-0: That's a collard dove. But I
speaker-1: I was thinking that was at the back of my mind.
speaker-0: I'm like I don't do sport, I don't do sport, so I found out that it can also wipe to I love you, I love you, and that feels much nicer to me. That's very But the one that I can just never get out of my head is wood pigeon, pigeon, wood pigeon So every time I'm anywhere and I'm not very deep sleeper, I wake up to anything, literally like a pin dropping. If there is a bloody wood pigeon outside and it's kicking off, my head can't then let go of the frickin' wood pigeon song and then I've just keeping myself awake because I'm all I'm doing is reciting the fucking song that the birds reciting outside. And I'm just like, go to sleep. Just go to sleep.
speaker-1: Luke Beerplugs, the the your best friend.
speaker-0: I've got I've got My favourite thing actually though about bird song is that my alarm is bird song. I downloaded like a a dawn, dawn chorus kind of soundscape that is now my because I heard that listening to birdsong is really good for your nervous system. So I can imagine that you must be the chillest person in the world then, Phil, if you're going out with a massive microphone.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I think that is part of it. It is just a really genuinely calming thing, and I'm surprised at how zen and calming the experience is. The downside of this, as one of my partners has discovered, having I kind of got her into birding, but she only really goes out with me when a visiting her from Swansea.
speaker-0: That's right.
speaker-1: Going out delightful. going out with a parabolic mic does ruin birding from that point onwards. Because it's like we when you did get that part taken a away, like no, this experience isn't complete now. This isn't Zen anymore. I can I don't know, I'm too aware of everything. I can
speaker-0: Hear roads and I can hear other things and other people and chatting away and I just wanna listen to Yeah, no, I can't imagine that. It does. Maybe that's one of those things like don't want to maybe I don't want to open p pick peel back that bit 'cause that might just But I mean just even sitting gonna hide is great.
speaker-1: It's great, it's delightful, hundred percent. And I've taken I've you know, I've tried to be a bit more mobile with it. good Blashwood Lakes just obviously they do have heights there, but they've got plenty of other paths and trails, so just stopping for a bit in a path and hoping no one comes down for a bit and just seeing I can pick anything out of the trees or whatever else.
speaker-0: Yeah. There's a great site. It's huge and it's really varied, which is fantastic. And it also means that you can see like a thousand different things. Cause I know that they've got swift houses, they've got waders, obviously, they've got rare visitors that come over because they had a bitten last year. you know, get amazing turns, which is obviously fantastic, birds of prey, which are my one of my favourites as well. but yeah, those BTO courses. They sound fantastic and a really good gateway into into birds.
speaker-1: You just miss out on the chance to ask questions necessarily, although they give you all your their email addresses, so if you really did have questions you could still contact them after the fact. suggesting they're you know suggesting field guides and that kind of thing as well.
speaker-0: that's great.
speaker-1: Yeah, it it and I haven't done the more advanced specific courses, there's like wrapped ID courses, all manner of things, but they've just got things all throughout the year. just sounds like a really genuinely lovely resource.
speaker-0: So a nice like introductory course and then it's more like you can go into like specialities as of when you develop your skills.
speaker-1: Yeah, as when what interests you, what's around you, and you could do with help I Ding, there's yeah, gonna be a course out there almost certainly. Yeah, just running all throughout the yeah.
speaker-0: That's amazing. And I imagine that the people who are running the courses are probably really knowledgeable as well. So it's always good to obviously get onto those sessions so that you can ask any questions that you might have, much like have you got a rhyme or or some words that you can put to a call so that when I am out about in the field, would I be able to identify it off the bat? Or is it just gonna sound like an insane person screaming for a little while?
speaker-1: And they sent you a little bit of homework as well.
speaker-0: great.
speaker-1: So they just send out an audio file, or I think it might be in a YouTube link or something. We said, right, listen to this, just bird song, and identify as many birds as you can within it. which is great. That's a r it's a genuinely good exercise if you're trying to get more comfortable with it. As I said, there's so many videos on YouTube of just bird song, even like all the pet T V stuff you can put on via cat or your dog or whatever. Again, there's bird calls happening all the time in that, so it's a good chance just to sit there and try an ID through it. For a while, my previous car, it every time you started the car, it wanted to blare some audio at you. And for a while it was the radio and that was just really annoying. and then I realized it has an SD card slot. So I put bird song onto an SD card, and then my car just started with bird song, which was the again just such a chill, nice thing to start with.
speaker-0: Way to start. Phil, so you've got bird watching, or is he bird song and paddleboarding? Because I also heard that if you have open water within your field of vision for 20 or more minutes, it reduces like any strain on your mental capacity. Like it's so good, it's so good for you. And I had that the other day at Testwood Lakes actually, because I was like I was feeling a bit crap, and then I was like, it's sunny. there's birds singing. my god, there's water and I was there for about three hours just by myself, just lapping it literally lapping it up, and then just went home like
speaker-1: Feeling slightly better though. Yeah.
speaker-0: Fantastic Well my anxiety seems to be gone. When did that happen? And paddleboarding clearly needs to be the thing that I take up next over summer. The amount of times that I have almost fallen off of like a sea wall or sea cliff path because I'm literally this far from a sheer drop and I'm doing this because I'm trying to keep an eye of it's only a bird of prey, but I love bird of prey. So I'm just like this and then you take a little step backwards and you go, fuck and then like you think you're about to plunge to your death.
speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I I I I it's like obviously you've only been d talking meaningfully for an hour or whatever, but I get the impression that maybe d you're gonna get distracted really quickly. So
speaker-0: Maybe. Maybe. What sorry Phil, what j what that sounds like bullying. my
speaker-1: Sorry, sorry, I bought
speaker-0: god, that's so mean. You're not wrong though. I also had to get to the point where I had to actively tell myself do not walk and look through binoculars at the same time. Yeah. Like just stay just stay still. You can move later once you've, you know, actually just like stay looking. But yeah, that the seawall path that I did around Trebone Bay was very scary and I had to really I my partner was trying to take pictures and every time he went slightly too close to the edge I like, my god Stop Stop it Stop You're gonna die. You're going to die and I'm going to die and we're all going to die.
speaker-1: I would s I this I guess it brings on kind of a one of the few points and bits and pieces. the not bringing binoculars, not bringing scopes or whatever whilst you're out and about and still trying to commit to birding and doing that is genuinely wonderful because it becomes less about the lifelist and you just again you're just out there going, I'm just enjoying be sharing space with whatever this is. It might be an Egyptian goose, I'm pretty confident. I can't really tell. and that's okay. I don't have to constantly add things to a life list. I I guess it's my not a terrible birding mistake, but a mistake I did make when being fairly early on and getting the excitement of I everything's a life because I've only started recording this now for the first time and kinda getting stuck into that. I think my life list has only got like ninety nine birds on it. I think we're nearly at a hundred. Ninety nine as of yesterday with a strike, which is a pretty good
speaker-0: Great find. my god. Why was that?
speaker-1: Bad Basing Stoke Canal. It just shot across the screen.
speaker-0: So that's so cool.
speaker-1: but there was a a YouTube documentary. It's absolutely phenomenal. Highly, highly recommend it. Listers.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: yes, phenomenal. and it's there are two brothers who do a big year in America which is It seems like a crazy thing, but I can see why. Just trying to see competitively on eBirds, trying to log as many birds as possible across the year going across the entirety of US soundsponkers. and there's a w person in that Hannah Towtony got that's a ridiculous name to pronounce. but they did bring up the point of when you get so sucked into this just being a numbers game and just trying to rack up the lifelist, do you It's no longer about the birds, it's about the person and just their achievements. And for me, I it kind of realised I I am kind of losing the point of what I should be enjoying about this. As much as yeah, going out and touching grass is a bit cliche. It's really nice.
speaker-0: it does. Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-1: And yeah, it kinda it it was a nice kind of mental adjustment or reset for me just to go do you know what? Yeah. Sometimes it's okay that I don't go out with like a full microphone and equipment and whatever. And I'm just there to enjoy it. And maybe I can't ID that bird. That's alright. well. There are there are many little brown birds in the world and that's fine.
speaker-0: Little brown jobs. Yeah.
speaker-1: That's okay.
speaker-0: And that and it's fine. No, I I completely agree. So in March I took on the RSPB's birding challenge, which was to rack up X amount of kilometres of walking, running, swimming, whatever it was that you wanted to do, whilst also raising money for the RSPB. There was no challenge in terms of how many birds you needed to see. you know, take things off of your life list, get the X amount of lifers or whatever. It was literally for me. Did I get to go outside today and be in nature? Yes or no. Do I feel better for it? Yes or no. Did I get to see something fantastic? Maybe, but it's not, you know, I'm not actively seeking out. I've never been, I guess, the more twitcher variety of a bird watcher. I'm not, you know, doing a big year to me sounds insane and obviously incredibly expensive. I understand why people want to do it, but then it's turning it into a competition and not a hobby anymore. And I get ex excited seeing house sparrows outside in my garden because I think they're fantastic. I love seeing a pigeon. I go out regularly and feed pigeons. But if I got to see a shrike, I'd obviously lose my marbles. I cried when I saw a tawny owl. Like literally was out on a walk, couldn't believe it. Tear Pricking in my eye, and it's just if you were an owl, if you were to draw an owl, you'd probably draw it in one of like the holes in a tree. That was literally where it was. It couldn't have been a more perfect owl sighting. And I've never seen an owl in the wild. I've only ever seen them at like Bird Weld or Marwell Zoo or, you know, some kind of hawk conservancy or something like that. They're absolutely fantastic. But the guy who was with me, he was leading the walk, was like, yeah, she's just told me. Yeah, it's just Tonya.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: point but must you become I mean that's fantastic. You've obviously been doing it for like a thousand years, whatever, that's fine. And I'm sure that I'll maybe one day get to a point where I'm like and I have done actually in the garden where it's like, okay, okay, again it's a house sparrow, but can I just see like a robin? I haven't even seen a robin for a thousand years. What's going on? But you are right, I feel like the whole point of birding in in I think mine and your point of view is actually just to get out in the natural world and experience it and detach from modern city living lifestyle, you know, being around buildings that are way too tall, being around cars, pollution, volume of people. It's about get doing a little bit of mindfulness and just taking yourself away and actually reconnecting with nature. You know, as you say, like going out and touching grass is a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason. It's good for you. It's it's heal it's literally healing for for humans. And I think that we've done this thing lately, I think, as a species of human I think we've forgotten that we're part of a very balanced, delicate ecosystem. We're building data centers instead of, you know, looking after birding reserves. We have a trillionaire on the planet who could solve world hunger, but that's not happening, unfortunately. We've completely forgotten that actually we are part of the natural world. And I think that anything that you can do, whether it is taking binoculars out, where it if it is just taking a microphone out, whereas it's essentially raw dogging, like and just going going for a walk in in your in the park like I did earlier today, but you still feel a thousand times better just for for just it's the art of noticing. I noticed that bird song. I think I recognise that. That's fun. I don't quite recognise that one. That's new to me. But it doesn't matter because I don't care like it finding out what it is isn't the the the goal. It's just getting to hair.
speaker-1: Be a nice part of it. And there's certainly nothing bad aboutin last couple of years we've ended up in sort almost the gamification of birding. Yeah. And that people have realized, wait, this is Pokemon Go but in real life.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
speaker-1: Genuinely great. And if that's your reason to start, because that makes it fun and engaging, add ass, do it. Nothing wrong with that at all. it's just, yeah, just keep in mind at the same time that Just enjoy the space that you're sharing with whatever this wonderful little creature is and the amazing variety that we are lucky to be surrounded by.
speaker-0: Do you have a beginner birding tip Phil at all for anyone who's thinking about getting into birding who might not have quite crossed that threshold just yet?
speaker-1: Sure. I think that there is no downsides, there is no shame in using some of the apps and just the more accessible bits of kit. Like Merlin as we've mentioned, it's phenomenal. There's nothing bad about using those to help with your IDing. I still use it with my IDing. I'm certainly not professional or an expert or anything along those lines, but use whatever resources make it accessible for you and there is no bad way or wrong way to do it. You'll get a you know, there some diehard bodies like, nope, you have to use a book. or just like know what the different colored legs are and I look. I'll have a book, I'll have Merlin, I'd like look through the photos and stuff, I might listen to a call on the app, whatever the case may be, tell me try and figure out what it is. And also the threshold for you in IDing a bird and adding it to your life list doesn't need to be the same as anyone else's. For me personally, I want to definitely see it. And be happy that I have ID'd it and it's like I think for some people maybe they just have put Merlin on and go, I've seen there's been this thing and this thing and this thing near me, and I've probably heard it. That's good enough. And if that's that works for you, then great. Awesome. it's not quite enough for me, and that's fine too. I'm making it slightly harder on myself, but it doesn't matter. again, because the lifelist is not the thing that I'm constantly chasing as much as the nice little dopamine hit us. another one. Delightful. it's great.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's definitely day for me.
speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. But whatever makes it more accessible to you, there's no wrong way to do it, I would say.
speaker-0: You're very much like me, Phil. I kind of like to make it more more hard for myself in that I have to have definitely successfully visually ID'd it, not just having an app in front of me. When I was at work once, I work on a farming estate and my friend I was out for a walk, we were looking at the kestrels that are nesting there, and she said, There's a fire crest and I turned and looked in the tree. As you know, fire crests are very, very small. I think they weigh like five playing cards amount. It was like a twenty pence pee. Weirdly, that equates to a twenty pence pee. Really, really small, tiny it's too far away for me to be able to say, that is definitely a fire crest. But she went back and put a little tick in her book and I didn't do you know, I didn't go and put a sticker in mine because I can't a hundred percent sure that I've seen it. But what it meant was is that Later on, a month later or so, I was walking in the cod south Southampton Commonable places, had my bins out, was doing the challenge, took them out, Merlin picked it up, and I just stayed on this path, just bins completely still for about ten minutes, and one of them just came blobbing up in front of me. Now they move like they're in stop motion. They're very, very quick. They're complete they're always twitching around and stuff. It's actually quite difficult unless you've got a fantastic photographer on camera with you to be able to actually successfully capture a shot of one. But I was absolutely convinced that that's definitely it. Got my book with me. Merlin is literally kicking off because it is singing at the time. I've definitely seen one. Fantastic. But I've never really understood the hate about the apps. I do know that that might be a generational, how long have you been doing birding for thing? However, I think I'm quite lucky indeed people, especially older people that I've met birding, have completely embraced it and completely acknowledged that it is a great way for beginners to get involved in birding. Because you could just sit out, you know, in your garden and you might not know a a sparrow from a goldfinch and that's absolutely fine. But if you've got Merlin and you're sat out there and it's on and it's kicking off telling you that it's definitely a goldfinch, then brilliant, you've seen a goldfinch and it's it it it can actually be that passive. And I think that that's really important, isn't it?
speaker-1: Yeah, a hundred percent. I didn't even realise that you can turn but a get Merlin recording and then just put it back in your pocket, lock your phone, and it would just keep on recording in the background. I didn't realise it could do that until I went out with a friend and they're like, that's why aren't they be doing that for longer? That's annoying. But also, fine. so yeah, even if you're just going out for your for your normal walk to work, whatever it is, who knows what you're gonna end up hearing or seeing, and then maybe that helps confirm an ID that you saw or whatever the case may be, and great.
speaker-0: Absolutely. The only issue with Merlin that I have found so far, not only when it's blustery and windy and it is isn't isn't quite able to use your phone microphone, is that you can't actually use the video function whilst you're recording on Merlin. So if you're trying to take videos of birds while you're out and about, I mean my camera's just full of videos of of very common birds. but then you go back onto Merlin, it does say like we recording stopped, do you want to start a new recording and it's quite frustrating. So I really would like to implore Merlin to fix that function because I'm assuming that I have enough sway in the birdie world at this point to be able to tell Merlin what to do.
speaker-1: Just trying to wait around there's there's no technical limitation there. It's all Merlin's fault, hundred percent.
speaker-0: If you if you Merlin, if you invent a microphone that works on a blustery day and you sold it for two hundred quid, you will make bank. Cornell University will have an influx of money for you to do more and then yeah, if you can fix the the video function versus recording, that would be sick. Thanks so much.
speaker-1: I don't know why they haven't thought of it. You put it so simply.
speaker-0: And to be honest, it's one of those things, isn't it, where if I've had the thought and I'm quite simple, then I imagine that a thousand other very, very clever people have also had that thought themselves and there must be a reason for it. I'm really simplifying it, thinking
speaker-1: Wait, wait.
speaker-0: just like just fix it. Do you f do you find wind really like problematic while you've got your microphone out, or is it able to kind of cut through with
speaker-1: So the parabolic has a little wind muff on the mic itself and then it has like a massive neo green sock almost that you I'll send you some photos.
speaker-0: Well that's
speaker-1: almost like a just a a bit of elasticated fabric that you stretch over the entire dish on the front of it. And that helps debuffer a lot of the wind. But if it's particularly strong wind, then it all I've got to pick up is wind, really. there's no real way to get around that. The the bigger issue is just the frequency range that wind is in. Is just so overpowering compared to very high frequency little birdsong and whatever else.
speaker-0: Yeah, because they must be really high frequency in comparison to right.
speaker-1: Very much so. Wins by sub base quite bat base, but that's not very helpful.
speaker-0: It's probably one of the most annoying things if you've ever been out birding, especially on like sea cliffs and stuff, and you've got your rain mac up and it just feels like you're being absolutely pelted by wind. When you then finally get to go to like a coffee shop or like a shop or anything and you take your hood down, you're like, my god. Respite finally. Wind is hot. I like I It's I hate it so much. I know that 'cause I did get to see a br brilliant sight of it was really, really choppy and it was really, really windy and I got to see some Gannett's actually surfing what looked like for fun out on the coast, which was brilliant. But I was having possibly the worst day of my life because I was just in gale force wind. Like you could you could stand against it and it would fuck you up. It was that strong. But yeah, it was it was lovely to see. But I do remember going and getting a coffee afterwards and just being like, fuck me, never again. Never going, never going. On it are never going to land's end on potentially the windiest day ever. And if you've ever been to Cornwall as well, the the weather changes within every five every five minutes probably. It's like basking sun, you're really hot, you've got fleeces on, you've got waterproofs on, and then the next minute it's like torrential downpour rain. And some of us didn't bring the covers for their binoculars, so then they were all like smeary and disgusting. And I was like, I think that's C what is that? What is that? Like an idiot.
speaker-1: Good. So prepared. Absolutely. Dan's fine.
speaker-0: It's absolutely fine. Look, you know, this is my first time on the planet. you know, it's fine. And now I know for next time to not do that. My cat's just jumped up if that's what you could hear just then, by the way. That's right. so where can listeners find you if you are on socials or uploading your recordings anywhere that could be used by them?
speaker-1: so in the very near future I need to prompt one of my partners to actually finish building the website. but nothing to do with nature that much. but love shiv as in love, romance, whatever, and shiv like a prison night. there's there's logic behind it, but we don't have time for that clearly. lovestreamselco.uk is where I'm going to be starting to post the different love events that I am. in the run up to organizing. I've been working within working, crewing, whatever, volunteering and making LARP events happen for the last seven or eight years and finally decided I'm gonna make my own. So obviously the first event that anyone would make is the late alternative reality, late nineteen nineties. where mass global flooding has happened to a impossible extent. So overnight, five years prior to the event, the sea level has risen by a hundred and fifty metres. So you've lost the Netherlands, you've lost certain parts of Europe and whatever else. Much of England and the UK has been ruined as well. T V has been thrown out the window because no one could keep it going. So radio has become the big thing. So the players are radio show presenters on an actual ship, which is an ex Navy ship which is docked in the middle of London in Canary Wharf. which is now owned by a scout group as it happens. So you can just hire out an actual ship for a weekend if you want to. And they're gonna actually produce a radio show during the actual end of the world where the sea level will rise by like two thousand meters or something insane. but they are gonna be presenting and making their own radio shows, have remote listeners who can listen to the r show and interact with it on web forums and emails and phone calls, and then everyone the will die eventually, I guess, around the world. And the players on the ship will be the last people left alive. and who ha though they have a ri responsibility and duty to keep on bro broadcasting because that might be the only comfort that some people have in the last moments of their lives. Crazy. that's that's the whole gist of the game.
speaker-0: my god, Phil, how did you even who came up with that concept or was it a quick review that
speaker-1: No, that was that was
speaker-0: came That's So cool. That's so cool.
speaker-1: Weirdly, I've ended up running actual radio stations with I totally don't own an actual FM radio transmitter and definitely haven't actually broadcasted an FM radio station for multiple weekends. Totally haven't done that before. but if I had done that then I would have done that for a couple of LARPs now and that was really fun, just pr making my own radio show. And so wanting to take the technical side of it away and I'll just deal with that and let other people just play around with it. Bus playing on the idea of being superstars and big celebrities and the interpersonal role play of how those relationships will change, 'cause if you're maybe having an affair whilst you're on the ship, that's cool and sexy until you realize that your family probably aren't gonna be around to go home to and all of a sudden this is kinda gross and disgusting and and that'll be very intense, I imagine.
speaker-0: A very interesting brain, Phil.
speaker-1: It's a weird place.
speaker-0: Cool thing.
speaker-1: yeah, no, it's LARP is great. I I could talk about that. This is not what this podcast is about, so I won't hijack it, LARP is wonderful. highly, highly recommend
speaker-0: I was obviously under the impression that LARPing was just like Renaissance fair esque. I didn't when you said nineteen nineties I was like, that's not computing to me. That's not right. That's not right. That's not the rules I've I've set for this thing that I have nothing to do with
speaker-1: That that's that's how you see it. The biggest event in the UK right now is called Empire, Empire LARP, which has n about four thousand participants four times a year. And that's a massive fantasy kind of Game of Thrones esque visually, I think, is the closest thing you can get to scale of game. You've got Dragonfest and whatever happening in Germany, which is like ten thousand people. It's crazy the scales these things get to. But there's a whole other flavour of it. I just did a superhero school LARP. Very much inspired by the boys and Invincible and X Men. Nice. and I ran a a scientific lab that definitely wasn't for torturing at all. And now definitely don't have a LARP safe blender which I could put people's hands inside of to test their superhero resilience and strength. Which has a motor that turns on and sounds terrible.
speaker-0: to come to this. This sounds awesome.
speaker-1: I will hit you up with links.
speaker-0: Yeah, do it. That's really cool. So it's not quite burning, but it's something ho it's hobby adjacent.
speaker-1: I have done burning at LARP and I have weirdly with this podcast I've been thinking, can I make burning into a LARP? Maybe
speaker-0: I was gonna say, like, as part of this, because obviously finding out that you've done LARPing and, you know, creative events and stuff, I was like, how could you like have you obviously in you know, incorporated birding into LARPing events, but also how could you maybe tailor a complete event around birding?
speaker-1: I've been thinking about it and I'm very fortunate. I've got a friend who is an ecologist and her parents are professional ecologists. and we've kind of batted ideas around. She's more into bats on that side of things, and now she does bat surface and that kind of thing. has also done ringing and whatever else, which I'd love to do, but again, how she didn't get into it, what happens? So I ha we we've talked about ideas and what you maybe could do. But all of those ideas have ended up being, but it clearly has to be a horror lap. So whilst you could have nice happy fun birdie time, then it will go very downhill when actually you discover horrible monsters or whatever. Which Or just the birds. or just the birds. Yeah. We're doing a hike across Scotland in the beginning of December this year for a horror LARP where we're a film crew who are actually gonna start the LARP on the train from Glasgow to the most remote train station in the UK, up in somewhere up in Scotland, which you can only get to by train and foot. No tr no roadways to it at all. and then we're gonna go on a hike for a day in what will probably be immense rain and maybe snow and whatever else and That'll probably be emotional in some way. I d I don't know how much burning will get done there, but you know, we'll find out.
speaker-0: my god, that sounds amazing. I love I love it. Like any any hobby is fantastic to me. I just think it's so interesting. It's really great hearing people obviously speaking so passionately about hobbies because I feel like I'm quite boring when I talk to people about birding and I go on about it and I feel like I whang on a lot about it to people who maybe don't necessarily find it cool. It was really funny because last summer or a couple of summers ago, my partner bought me these like little crappy knocks from from Amazon. And I remember taking them down to the common and on a really nice summer night and my friend came down and a couple of her friends came down and everyone was all like Mm got in cool binoculars Now, everyone thinks they're lame until they realise that they can have a go.
speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's pretty cool.
speaker-0: And actually then as soon as they see like a magpie or a crow through binoculars really close up and you can see like individual feathers, you know, what do their what do their beak feathers look like? What do their eyes look like up close, or those kinds of things? You kind of can see them going like
speaker-1: wait, hold on. This is kinda cool.
speaker-0: I think I understand this now. Where did you get these from? And you're like, they're only twenty quid, and they're like, my This is so accessible and then it's it's just so interesting. So I think that I believe that LARPing probably has a bit of a stigma to it. And I think she says a bit. LARPing has a stigma to it. Birding, I think, also has a stigma to it, or it it I believe it certainly did until maybe a couple of years ago when I think a lot maybe younger people got involved in it. Like I said, I think lockdown was the gateway for a lot of people. I think Gen Z are really getting into it. I mean I can only imagine what it's like to be a Gen Z or even a Gen A at this kind of time of life, you know, computers are everywhere, AI slot, data centers, etcetera, et cetera. You probably want to connect with the the natural world and actually remember that you are part of part of nature yourself. But yeah, it's interesting to watch the cogs turn with people who have come with a predisposed bias. Birding is not cool. Binoculars are for anorets who want to, you know, sit in hides on their own all day with a thermos. I can't think of anything better personally.
speaker-1: It sounds delightful, yeah.
speaker-0: But then like watching in real time go from, oof, this is lame. You've got you've got binoculars, have you, to, okay, I'm now wanting to buy like purchase them myself is really interesting. And I could imagine like my own biases are not against laping, but what I believe laughing to be and then hearing this like really cool thing where it's gonna be on, you know, a ship in Canary Wharf in the nineteen nineties in some kind of alternate reality where there's been a massive flood and let's be honest, it's not Probably that would now that El Nino is on its way. Like you might have to put some trigger warnings in on it all over itself because the
speaker-1: like my the scale of what's happening in my event is just insane. it couldn't possibly happen. But luckily some someone on YouTube has made simulations of what would happen. So I know exactly when each country and stuff will get lost. Switzerland does amazingly well. They hold out right to the end.
speaker-0: So basically go to Switzerland not only for them holding out very well but also for their assisted dying.
speaker-1: Mm. Yep. Hundred persa I mean it also looks like it's absolutely stunning place to be.
speaker-0: Does look beautiful.
speaker-1: my goodness. I have a friend who lives there and I'm jealous. It makes me joke.
speaker-0: I've been thinking about like doing as I as I've got John Older, I'm less like you know, just thinking about beach holidays all the time, like really want to do Europe, really want to do like walking holidays and stuff like that, and now being able to think like not only do I want to do those, but I could also take my binoculars along. I could also look at birds, you know, that we might not get over here or ones that maybe when they do come over here are just like really infrequent, weird visitors that we're not meant to get.
speaker-1: Or you just hear them with a different accent, because they do get different accents when they live in different places.
speaker-0: did hear that and I did hear as well that cows have regional accents in the UK.
speaker-1: I haven't done about cows, but that's incredible. I I I I can see that. I can see that.
speaker-0: See, once you start unpicking like hobbies in the natural world, you start picking up really weird niche information that you'll never need and might well ostratosize you at a party.
speaker-1: That's fine. But like I just don't go to those and that that seems to sort me out quite well.
speaker-0: For it.
speaker-1: that's why I just do LARP. It's a it's a great time.
speaker-0: It's sociable, it's fun, it's interesting.
speaker-1: I've sailed on a actual living pirate ship around Italy, pretending to be a pirate for four days, and firing the cannons at quests. Yeah, a hundred percent.
speaker-0: I think I might need a new hobby.
speaker-1: Yeah, no, it's a good time. It's a real real good time. And you get to do things who never do. Yeah. But yeah, where to find me? Loveship.co.uk. eventually we'll have something on it. on YouTube, I did make a channel, I need to upload to it more. Parabolic Nature is where I'm trying to upload audio from my parabolic mic of various places that I end up going to. And I need to get back on the bandback on that. Maybe this podcast will be the reason that I do that. and yeah, I think that's probably the only places anyone can really find me.
speaker-0: Awesome. Well them in the comments so people can have a look. Caption obviously is what I meant to say there. And then hopefully we can hold you to some account, Phil, and you can start getting on your your uploading your audio.
speaker-1: Yeah, no. I I w I will endeavor too.
speaker-0: But thank you endlessly for coming on this podcast, Phil. You're one of the first peop like people to reach out to me to come on it and it's been such an interesting conversation and it's just so brilliant to listen to the the different ways in which we all kind of share the the same hobby or as we found out, multiple hobbies.
speaker-1: Well, you know. That's been a really lovely, lovely time. Thank you for having me.
speaker-0: That's all for this episode of Winging It. If today's conversation made bird watching feel a little more approachable, or even just made you notice the birds outside your window, then I've done my job. I'll be back soon with more stories, tips, and chats from across the birding world, from first sightings to lifelong obsessions. If you enjoyed the show, follow or subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and share it with someone who might enjoy discovering birds a little differently. Details can be found in the caption. Until then, keep it simple, stay curious, and just keep winging it.
