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What's up, everybody, and welcome to the Westside Barbell Podcast.
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I'm your host, Mac McFarland, and with me today is Tom Barry.
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Tom, how's it going?
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Good, Mac.
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How are you, sir?
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Doing good, doing good.
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Before we get into whatever topics you want to get into, I want to give you and some of the athletes a huge shout out.
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I want to give a shout out to Ali Kennedy for winning gold again in the World of Cross Championships and MVP and for winning the league.
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Shout out to Jocelyn Austin who competed at UFC BJJ and crushed it.
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And then I want to say congratulations to you and your athletes, especially Ryland.
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Would you mind speaking a little bit to the success he had?
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Because it's pretty amazing.
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Yeah.
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So Rylan was actually the first American at the U-17 to make it to the gold medal match for both Greco and Freestyle.
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And so in Greco, he got the gold medal.
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And then for Freestyle, got the silver.
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Awesome.
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Well, I just wanted to get that out there.
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Huge congrats to you, to him, and to all the athletes.
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It's awesome to see, and awesome to see your wrestling group crushing it, too.
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Awesome.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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All right, so going into today, we recently just came off of ConjugorCon, where we had a few of the coaches speak on their interpretation of the system with their specific demographics or populations that they train.
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And so today's podcast is going to be over interpreting the conjugate system.
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Now, Tom, I've got a question for you before we dive into this.
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So Louie entrusted you to carry Westside Barbell forward.
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What does that mean to you?
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Everything.
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So I condense it down.
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It really means I'm running two jobs at once.
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One side is the legacy, and we have physically separated out two gyms.
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We have the athlete's gym where I'm at, and then we've got the HQ gym where you're recording the podcast from.
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And that is where everything from the legacy is housed.
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It's where the record board is, it's where the dead wall is, it's where the old school gym is with all the equipment in there.
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Nothing has been given away.
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Everything is still there.
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Even the stuff that's broken, dusty, is kept upstairs.
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And the goal is that everyone knows where we came from.
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So visitors can come in, you'll take them through tours, they get to see artifacts and stuff from Louis' private collection, his scrapbook, you see Louis with a full head of hair, but you get to know the history and where everything had its origins from, even from talking from Culver City all the way up to the passing of Louis.
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And the goal is that we never forget our roots and that the legacy will always be spread when people come visit.
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And so that's one side, it's the custodian to the legacy.
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And because from there comes the principles we use today.
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And that's what we do at HQ is that, or sorry, at the athlete gym, our goal is to keep pushing the conjugate system with different athletes and to show how it can be adapted or interpreted into the sport they're in and based on the context in front of you.
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So we move from a club setting and the legacy to a strength conditioning.
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Yeah.
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setting in the athlete gym.
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And that's where we're still proving the system works with the results we're getting.
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Everything is athletes and results.
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That's what we want to keep putting out and showcasing how adaptable this system is once you know the fundamentals.
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You can't just go and make adaptations and interpretations when you have no clue what it's based on.
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If you don't know the fundamental science and all the time that Louis put into it and the lifters put into it.
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But yeah, to cut it down, it's two jobs.
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One is the legacy, be the custodian.
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The other is working with the athletes we have now, improving it with them.
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Okay, that was good.
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Did Louis say anything about what he wanted protected versus like what he was fine with as far as evolving?
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I mean, Louis was always evolving.
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If you read through all his articles, like from Powerlifting USA to...
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I think the first one is Don't Chase Your Taos on the website.
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You'll see there's always an evolution, but there's a backbone of principles through it.
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One thing was clear that the Powerlifting Club...
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I've said this multiple times before, but the Powerlifting Club stops when he passed away for multiple reasons.
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One, you'll never replicate Louis.
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Like, he is...
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one of the most unique people in the world, but the way he ran the gym, his, I mean, experience, foresight, everything, you just can't replicate that.
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All you can do is water it down or dilute it.
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The same with the people that came to train with him, all his powerlifters and athletes.
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So once that was,
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kind of, once that was stopped, and then we turned it into basically a living museum for the legacy to showcase where we came from.
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That's what he wanted.
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And then for what we're doing now is just showcasing that, hey, show how the conjugate system can work for all sports.
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And the goal is to educate, is to show coaches, hey, you don't have to follow us verbatim, but you could take principles, you could take aspects from all,
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what was done in the powerlifting world and put it into your own system with your own demographic.
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So that was really it and just don't screw it up.
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Got it.
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Now, how Louie built his reputation on the results versus like some people can kind of build stuff off of marketing.
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Does it ever bother you how much the name conjugate or Westside gets used compared to how the actual methods are getting used?
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Not as much as you would think, because if people are mentioning it, clearly there's some substance behind it.
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If they're not talking about it, then it's like the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
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So if people didn't really want to talk about conjugate or mention it, they wouldn't be doing it.
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What I really care about is the athlete.
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is the athlete been trained underneath whatever that system is.
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And if a coach uses our vocabulary or nomenclature, and the athlete is getting faster, stronger, stays healthy, and is performing in their sport to the best, or to the level that they want to, then I guess the name is doing its job.
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if they're using our terms and phrases and it stagnates the athletes or they get hurt, like that's where the true cost comes in.
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And that's what, like, that's the part that I truly bothers me.
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But, but in general, no, I don't spend time or energy policing the internet.
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You know, this, I'm not the most social media savvy person.
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Don't try to get on.
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We just try spending time making things.
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education based on the athletes in the gym, uh, and then trying to reduce the gap between, uh, the nomenclature of vocabulary, whatever you want to call it, the methods.
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And really that's what we created the pathway for is trying to, uh,
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to help educate people on the gaps of what they might hurt somewhere else.
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And Conjugacon, a huge shout out to Bridge and Coop for hosting that.
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That's why we did that free event was for coaches to show up and like, hey, here is the basis of the conjugate system.
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Here's how others are using it.
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And the goal was like, take something from it.
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And I think in the post-survey, 98% of people learn something that they're going to apply, which is like, that's what we want, just to educate.
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Not to be dogmatic, but to just to pass on what we've learned and what we are learning still.
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So then what does interpretation mean to you versus some of these coaches that might be trying to build a brand around it or the ones that are actually using it to help people?
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Yeah.
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Interpretation to me, you have to earn the right for interpretation.
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And what I mean by that is that you have to know the scientific principles behind it.
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You have to read a lot of books.
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You actually have to have practical experience and know the system the way Louis adapted it.
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the conjugate system is a concurrent way of training.
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Like, conjugate and concurrent to modern day is the same thing.
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It's not the conjugate sequencing system.
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Like, that's where Kashanti's, that's completely different because that's done at blocks.
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But once you understand how Louis came to the methods he did,
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and then how he implemented it and you understand the history understand like the science of practice strength training by that as that's the or ski uh curses books uh science of sport training um once you have a sound foundation and then you've practiced it and you've trained athletes then you to me you earn the right to interpret or adapt it because you understand the fundamentals of it if you don't
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then you're just changing a facade.
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Like you're not going to someone who, I'll give you an example.
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Louis found this hilarious and me not so much.
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In my old office, I was in a warehouse with no windows, had a table against the corner and I was against the corner and we had two people in between me.
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So I'm there, the wall, the person, another person and Louis.
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And this gentleman was telling Louis 10 different ways to improve the reverse hyper.
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And I was just going, what the heck?
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And then I go, have you ever used reverse Cypher?
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He was like, no.
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I'm like, how can you suggest these changes?
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But once you understand it, then you can actually, and lack of a better word, you earn the right to interpret it because you've done it and you know it inside and out.
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Now you know...
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how to practically implement stuff, you have enough experience with it.
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Then you adjust it for the demographic.
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And then you interpret because you understand the fundamentals of athletic development to make accurate changes rather than just changing around words or giving your definition of what max effort is.
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These are principles.
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These are stuff that has definitions for it.
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You can change the definition.
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You can come up with something else for sure.
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But you have to know it inside and out before you actually start giving your, in my opinion, your own interpretation or adaptation to it.
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Okay.
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So where would you say is a line between legitimately adapting the Kanji method for the sport demands for the athlete that's in front of you versus just barring that vocabulary for the training just to sound credible?
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mean the simplest line is uh we have to make sure the words still mean what they mean like if i want to put it simply of like there's definitions for a reason and um
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It's important because if there's so many different definitions for the same thing, then people are not going to know what is real.
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So then if someone keeps changing, just say for max effort, if they come up with, I don't know, the Mac heavy lifting method.
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And you're like, well, what does this mean?
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It's like, just keep the definition, the definitions.
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And then at least put out some literature behind what you're doing.
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But that's the simplest way I can do it.
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I'm not a big fan of extreme Latin terminology when explaining stuff.
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Like, I'm a simple person, so I try to learn simply and educate simply.
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Yeah.
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But usually when the terms are used for decoration, you can tell fast, like because if you ask them what percentage they're working off and against what max and then again, the justification, like what band tension is, how it shrinks, how it increases, what they rotate.
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And that's why, like if you go in a few questions, they usually get stumped after a while.
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Yeah.
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So a coach who was adapting can answer pretty quick.
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Usually a coach who was just trying to put on the facade, they'll change the subject.
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That's a good point right there.
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And so just piggybacking off that for a second, like Louis evolved how he applied it in the gym based on the numbers, the results, and everything that was happening.
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Do you see any kind of almost like a standard where the outcomes drive the change?
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Or are some people using the, I interpret it this way, now becoming an excuse that doesn't require any kind of outcomes at all?
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outcomes are the standard always.
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like results are, is what's most important.
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And to get to that, the athlete has to be healthy, display the skills and have more access to themselves to, I guess, to reach their goals.
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And if outcomes are the standard, that's the discipline that keeps freedom from turning into absolute chaos.
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Because you have a lot of freedom within this system, but if outcomes are not the standard, then why are we doing this?
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When you're working with athletes, especially compared to the general population who might have more health objectives and longevity, that's a longer outcome to look at.
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But for athletes, we're looking at results.
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They're looking at results.
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They won't be in the best possible position to reach their sporting goals.
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Every industry, no matter what people do, there's always goods and bads to everything, right?
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So you got coaches doing stuff for traction and all that, and that's what they do.
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But you also have some coaches that they're not online, they're not chasing the audience.
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They truly care, and they're passionate about the athletes they work with.
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Have you seen any of those type of coaches that are doing it because they have the love for coaching?
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End up, you know, have you ever seen like a success story with a coach that isn't doing it for popularity?
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Hundreds.
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Hundreds.
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You know who I'll isolate is the high school strength coaches we talk to.
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Like I have, I hold them in the highest regard, especially in today's age and especially in the States.
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This is where athletes actually are going to get long-term development.
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Because if they go to college, you don't know how long they're going to be in that program for with NIL, with how the landscape is changing.
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But the high school strength coach are the unsung heroes of our industry.
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Those are the ones that are going out trying to get funding for their gyms.
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They're trying to use boosters, whatever they can, just to get a weight room together.
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They deeply care about the athletes.
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They work extra long hours.
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They don't get paid a lot of money.
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And they're trying to figure out the logistics of how do I train 30, 50 kids, and I've got five power racks.
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I've got one glute ham developer.
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I've got some sleds.
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And talking to them, you just learn so much of like how you can adapt the system and you can see their interpretations of how they're using it.
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So there's there's hundreds.
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But those are the stories that are awesome because they're problem solving on the spot.
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and they care deeply and not just it's everything outside the weight room they do it's the programming we had one uh strength coach open mouth but in a university that has think four staff and 500 athletes and like that just the logistics of that isn't possible but they make it work uh high school setting they're trying to get equipment in the gym like they're going above and beyond just strength conditioning and then they're there for their
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doing good in school, trying to set an example, trying to build up their physical literacy.
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So if they go to college, they're at an advantage.
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So they're not having to learn technique.
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They're proficient in spotting their really good training partner.
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All that is set in the high school level.
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So to me, that's the huge part.
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I like that you mentioned that because one thing that I always picked up was if you're an athlete, let's say like he's training here.
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Now he transfers to a, or goes to a university that's further away and is no longer here.
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Right.
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But the way that athlete trains is a reflection of the person that coached him prior.
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Right.
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And I thought like the amount of strength coaches who call up the college coach, right?
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And basically just go, hey, here's the athletes coming from you.
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Here's all the data I have.
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Here's the personality.
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Anything you can do to help, let me know.
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I'm like, if you look online, like you've got everyone hating each other.
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But if you look at these coaches, really, like the meat and potatoes of strength conditioning, everyone wants what's best for the athlete.
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So if I can give information or pass on any data, I'm going to do so.
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If it helps them, that's my job.
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And that's what the high schools do.
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on a yearly basis.
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It's like they put all this time and effort into an athlete and then they go to college.
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That's why a lot of athletes, when they go to pros, they keep coming back into their high school or sometimes their collegiate strength coach because they made that relationship.
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It's huge.
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It's kind of one of the most fulfilling parts of the job.
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I love that you mentioned about the high school coaches reaching out to college coaches.
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That's something that I've been doing a lot lately.
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So with that being said, when a coach reaches out to you specifically and he says, hey, I run this version of conjugate, is there any questions that you ask them to see kind of where they're at or how true that is versus what they're claiming?
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Yeah.
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um i just try to to understand like everything comes back down to uh justification like that's the the big thing then the the questions are i just want to know what their philosophy and culture is first and foremost i think that's a big thing to to understand um and then you just kind of ask him like
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What do you keep?
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What did you change?
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And then try to figure out like, OK, like you just kind of go through the list and then like, why did you change it?
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Because then you're understanding the context of the the confinements that were within within the program or the facility.
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Then how do you know it's working?
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Like, do you have results?
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That's the big thing.
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And then another good question, I think, come from me, came from another coach, but
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he was like, what would it take to change it to the gold standard?
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Like, what would you have to change here, and would you change it?
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But if you, basically, if you had no...
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constraints, how would you train them?
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Then you understand like, okay, here's the philosophy and this is why it would start here.
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But given the athletes, the equipment, the staff level, the amount of days they can train all that, it ended up into this.
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But if you can fundamentally find that out, then like those are kind of the questions I would talk to coaches because one, it's very interesting.
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to see how people have to adjust the system.
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But if they're not able to answer any of that, and they're not able to tell me, like, is it actually working?
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And they don't have any objective numbers to back that out.
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Again, outcomes are just standard.
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So, and it's not just outcomes in the weight room, it's outcomes on the sport or in the sport they're in.
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Because plenty of coaches can crush the weight room.
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They can make their athletes stronger or faster underneath the bar, but are they getting better at their sport?
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So, yeah.
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Is there one thing that you see that commonly gets slapped with the, this is Westside or this is conjugate label that Louis might have pushed back hard on?
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I don't think Louis didn't slap back publicly much.
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One is about the athlete.
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Are they getting hurt?
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He used to hate when athletes are getting hurt.
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And especially when it wasn't during the sport, like there is, um, I can't remember what a reporter is reading, but the resistance training is one of the safest ways to train compared to sport.
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Like the injury rates in the weight room is very low.
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And, um, that stuff he would push back against and then, uh, having no rationale for exercise rotation, just change them for the sake of changing it.
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Like that's a, a big thing.
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And then, um, um,
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Max effort.
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Like, max effort is such a powerful tool, but if it's done incorrectly, like, it can flatten an athlete.
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Like, to understand why you're doing it and to understand when and where to do it.
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But maxing out with no plan around it, like, that makes no sense.
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Like, maxing out for the sake of maxing out is just a recipe for disaster.
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yeah I think that was that'd be really but it'd be like Louis had a saying I think he got it from one of the was it the Lormers or someone but he's like show me what you've done
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That was his big thing, like, show me what you've done as a strength coach.
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Like, show me the results, show me the athletes you've trained.
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It doesn't matter if you were private, high school, collegiate professional.
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That's what he's most interested in.
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Because everyone can talk good theory, but show me the actual numbers.
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Show me what you've done.
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Like if someone had a half understanding of the system and applied it with the athletes, but was still getting positive results.
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Have you ever seen that?
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Yes.
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And look, if the athletes are genuinely improving, staying healthy, most of the concern is gone because the athletes, their development is always the main point.
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So I'm not interested in trying to police the name when the work is good because there's multiple ways to get to the end result.
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It just mightn't be how we would do it.
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But the other side, like the name conjugate still matters for one practical reason, and it's not pride.
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The labels, the names given are how knowledge travels.
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So when a coach calls something conjugate and it's not, every young coach who copies or inherits a wrong definition, that error then compounds downstream.
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So three coaching generations later, someone is running something with no relation to the system.
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And then they're failing with it, concluding conjugate does not work.
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And we've seen this a lot like, hey, conjugate didn't work for me.
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And I was like, well, like, who did you learn it from?
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Who did you talk to?
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And this is not like you have to be at West Side to know everything.
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Like Louis studied from Soviet doctors and scientists through books and then to practical experience.
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So the dishonesty is not a sin against Westside.
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It's noise injected into professions, like share vocabulary.
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And at the end of the day, the athlete suffers.
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So that's why I worry about the name.
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I'm all for people naming their own personal brand or their personal brand.
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uh, system of training.
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Um, but it's, it's important for that practical reason is that it doesn't get so diluted that like long after we're dead, people have a version of conjugate that is nothing from the principles we've learned from.
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Um, so like, I, I, I,
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do try to educate, like you do, like Burley does, of like, hey, it's important to know these things.
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And it's important that you know, like, hey, this is where the conjugate method, again, not the conjugate sequencing system, the conjugate method, which is concurrent training based on the three principles or methods
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Max effort, dynamic effort, and repeated effort, and then special strengths utilized within it.
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But once you have that core going out, then all for it.
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I just don't want it to be so watered down that people say it doesn't work without actually using the system as we do.
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I really like that you touched on that because that's one thing.
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We get a lot of calls, a lot of visits where coaches interpreted the system from somewhere.
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or someone, and they come here and they show their data, they show what the training looked like.
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Whereas when that happens, we can actually sit down with them and say like, hey, this might not be how we would have done it based off the information given, which is another big thing.
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Do you just want to touch on that real quick?
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When people are asking you a question about the program, what context would you like them to give?
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Because that's a major part of this as well.
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I just want to know what athletes are working with, what facilities they have access to, to who are their mentors.
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Like what's their lineage is a big thing of like, because like there is multiple other strength coaches out there to learn from.
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You should try to learn from everyone, but you should have your own core principles and values you hold yourself to.
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Cause then that'll allow you to filter through what works, what doesn't work.
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And like,
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I have, like, do whatever works and benefits the athlete.
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Once you're not getting hurt and getting better, all for it.
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And even if you want to say conjugate inspired or built off conjugate, like, that's completely fine.
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Just if it's not the, like...
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the version of conjugate or the conjugate method as Louis has taught it, then just don't say it is.
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It's as simple as that really.
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Like you can give credit to who you learn from, give credit to Lou.
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But it's a, yeah, it's a tough one to answer because it's, there's so much noise in our industry.
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And especially that conjugate has become very popular in the name.
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And there's so many different spinoffs of it.
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Some are great.
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Some are not.
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But...
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But it just comes down to, if you're researching into it, just go more than skin deep.
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Just try to get into it.
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I'm like, where is this coming from?
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Who are they working with?
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Are they actually working physically with the athletes?
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Are they working remotely?
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Where do they get the inspiration from?
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Who are their mentors?
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Like, what are their beliefs?
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What are their cultural values?
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All these things will help shape the information you're getting, whether it's good or not.
328
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Okay.
329
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And what would you think Louis would think of as far as how many coaches are out there using the system and, you know, getting results and improving athletes?
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I mean, I think one of the prompts because the whole idea was to get this out to everyone.
331
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It was never to gatekeep everything.
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And Louis built his reputation on results and then let the reputation do the marketing.
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So I think he would find some of the people building audiences funny and somewhat hollow.
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But he wouldn't have, like, Louis is so focused on Westside, the gym, his athletes, that he
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When you came here, you entered into his universe.
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So the outside world was just shut off because his biggest competition was himself, was the gym, was the athletes.
337
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So because he gave away the methods his whole life, like talk to everyone on the phone, had visitors, give articles, seminars.
338
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And he wanted it used.
339
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He wanted it out there.
340
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And earning his respect had nothing to do with how many followers you had, had everything to do with proof and general curiosity.
341
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Show them your athlete's numbers going up.
342
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asked one question that showed you actually read the material and ran it disagree with them uh but once you had data behind you he respected that more than than anyone agreeing without it like he just wanted numbers he was a numbers guy and um and be strong to yourself uh and hopefully like you're making your athletes strong so um
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Like, he had no patience, like, for commentary or people just talking fluff.
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Or, like, he didn't know social media.
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Like, he wanted us to give out his house number on our Instagram page before.
346
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I'm like, Louis, you have hundreds of thousands of followers.
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Like, you're going to get so many calls, like, non-training related.
348
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But he just, like...
349
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The same thing, like, what did your athletes do this year?
350
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He just wanted to know, like, are they better now than they were at the start of the year?
351
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What did you do?
352
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And he would ask these questions to coaches all the time.
353
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Okay.
354
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If someone wanted to learn the system or learn how to interpret the system, where would you recommend them to go first?
355
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Before you get into it, save your money.
356
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Read the blogs, watch the podcasts, all the early Louis podcasts.
357
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There's hundreds, if not thousands of blogs we have out free of charge.
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try to learn from Lou first and then Louie referenced everyone he learned from.
359
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So go on our reference treasure hunt and see all the literature he got and who he studied from.
360
00:29:54.147 --> 00:30:07.290
And then after that, if you like it or into it and want to learn more about coaching, we have our pathway, which starts at level one, going into from cultural to program design to training,
361
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how to train the main lips, how to spot weaknesses.
362
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Like there's levels to this and I'm not going to go out here and you'll probably punch me after this podcast, but, um, you don't have to spend a lot of money initially.
363
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You just have to read and watch and listen and then actually go out and do something.
364
00:30:25.951 --> 00:30:26.332
Um,
365
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Don't just live theoretically in your head because then you'll come up with 10 different ways to train.
366
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And because we'll see it with some of the programming that comes in for review.
367
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And you're like, this coach has never done this before because on paper, it is the most perfect program that ever existed.
368
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It will take you three and a half hours to execute.
369
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And it's just not practical.
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But that I would just like utilize the articles, the YouTube videos, all the content that's out there and just don't stay to us.
371
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Like be broad focused, like look at.
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those accomplished in the field of strength conditioning, those accomplished in the field of science, people who've actually been in it for 30, 40 plus years, see what they've done in different industries too, because then that'll broaden your horizons of how to actually program.
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And then like...
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biased I am, but the system we have is it allows you to pull all the good things from different programs and actually put it into one system that functions and adapts in a weekly timeframe.
375
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Then if you just want to follow something like we have Conjure Club, which Burley runs, which has programming in there,
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A lot of like Louis master classes are in there too, which are not released to the public, but there's so much information there, but I would just start around Westside and around the person who really popularized the word Kanji, which is Louis Simmons.
377
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I don't think most of you would have heard of that, heard of bands or chains or accommodating resistance.
378
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He definitely pioneered and popularized it in the modern day, because when he started out, there was no real strength conditioning coaches.
379
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There definitely wasn't a private strength conditioning coach, like what he was doing.
380
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And he backed into his profession through mastery of powerlifting.
381
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He didn't go through the academic route.
382
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He spent 40 plus years, 150 plus world records.
383
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Five were in his neighborhood when he first started out.
384
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And the outcomes set the standards.
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So I would go there and then from there, then progress into looking at people's interpretations.
386
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Because then you got a better judgment system.
387
00:32:34.883 --> 00:32:39.505
It's like I listen to podcasts of stuff I've got no clue about.
388
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It might be like a building podcast or something about engineering.
389
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And I'm like, this is absolutely amazing.
390
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And then I go research it.
391
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I'm like, that was all wrong.
392
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But I had no clue because I got no first principles or understanding of it.
393
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So it's very hard to filter out stuff when you've got no underlining education into it.
394
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So go out, there's so many free resources out there and just kind of get yourself educated.
395
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And I would strongly urge you to, if you want to learn conjugate, learn from Lou.
396
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Look at his references, look where he learned from, and then go out.
397
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Excuse me.
398
00:33:16.571 --> 00:33:16.931
Okay.
399
00:33:18.471 --> 00:33:25.793
Well, if you could get one thing across to a coach that wants to interpret the system for a specific sport,
400
00:33:26.694 --> 00:33:39.581
right, whether they're working with youth or the highest level athlete that they've ever worked with, and they're wanting to get the same results that, you know, we're getting with a variety of athletes in the different sports, what would that be?
401
00:33:39.601 --> 00:33:42.523
Earn it.
402
00:33:44.624 --> 00:33:51.088
Like every legitimate advance to strength conditioning came from someone who mastered the existing body of work before they changed it.
403
00:33:52.837 --> 00:33:57.479
Like no one, like you have to earn it, have done something and then change it.
404
00:33:58.080 --> 00:33:59.600
You can't change something you know nothing about.
405
00:34:01.101 --> 00:34:08.845
So like if I could put it simply, like, Louis did an event like the dynamic effort out of thin air.
406
00:34:09.165 --> 00:34:17.850
Like he studied the material and then ran out of himself on his lifters and then constantly measured what happened and then adapted them for over four decades.
407
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So do the same with your own system, but you just have to earn it.
408
00:34:23.278 --> 00:34:31.341
And I can't stress enough that to advance something, you have to have mastered it fundamentally.
409
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I don't know enough about it, but I can imagine the progression of engines and cars started from people who didn't know how the original engine was built.
410
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Like you have to understand the fundamentals and have mastered that before you can actually change it.
411
00:34:48.186 --> 00:34:51.129
And then practically run it, not theoretically.
412
00:34:53.270 --> 00:35:00.536
And when you say earn it, are you talking about having the highest successful athlete?
413
00:35:00.556 --> 00:35:09.804
Or are you talking about having the largest gym numbers in a high school or the most success from lifting and performance on the field or court?
414
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whether you have a thousand athletes you ran or 10, it's earning it through physical practice that you've studied it, you've applied it and you've had success and you've had success more than once over and over again.
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To me, it's not the numbers like, well, I shouldn't say that.
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It's not the amount of athletes you have.
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It's the, um,
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It's the success with the outcomes you've had with whoever's in front of you, and it's repeated over time.
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that's like what you're looking for.
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So that's what I mean by earning it.
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I'm not looking for, I don't want someone coming here.
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I trained 5,000 people and we got all these results.
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I'm like, how can one person train 5,000 people?
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Like it's impossible.
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But what I mean by is like you have a body of work that if someone comes up to you, go show me what you've done.
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Here's what I've done.
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Here are the actual names of the people.
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Here's the pre and post.
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Here's the success in the sport.
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And whether you have hundreds of them, whether you have four or five, like that's all equally as important.
431
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Well, I think that's the perfect mic drop right there.
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That's really all the questions I got for you, Tom.
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You got anything you want anyone to hear before we cut this one?
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Doors are always open.
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we will respond to all emails if anyone's got any questions uh anyone has any objections or doesn't believe in the system we'll gladly talk to them uh visitors always hoping to come see the gym get a workout in and uh hopefully next time mac you won't try get me into a corner here and say something um but just just educate yourself and
436
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This really is a simple system once you understand it fundamentally.
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And just earn the right, earn the right to interpret and advance the system.
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Like I've been here since 2011 and really only the last few years is where I felt comfortable actually making the interprets.
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We did it in 2013, 2014 with the MMA guys where we did the three-day system.
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But now we're really only starting to educate people on that.
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So it just takes time and you can't fast forward this.
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Like you cannot fast forward practical experience.
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Um, you can fast forward getting likes and followers for sure, but the actual practical experience behind it, it just takes time.
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Awesome.
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All right.
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Well, thanks for jumping on today, Tom.
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And for everyone that's listening and following, make sure you guys like, and subscribe to the videos.
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Stay strong.
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Stay tuned.
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you
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What's up, everybody, and welcome to the Westside Barbell Podcast.
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I'm your host, Mac McFarland, and with me today is Tom Barry.
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Tom, how's it going?
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Good, Mac.
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How are you, sir?
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Doing good, doing good.
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Before we get into whatever topics you want to get into, I want to give you and some of the athletes a huge shout out.
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I want to give a shout out to Ali Kennedy for winning gold again in the World of Cross Championships and MVP and for winning the league.
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Shout out to Jocelyn Austin who competed at UFC BJJ and crushed it.
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And then I want to say congratulations to you and your athletes, especially Ryland.
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Would you mind speaking a little bit to the success he had?
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Because it's pretty amazing.
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Yeah.
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So Rylan was actually the first American at the U-17 to make it to the gold medal match for both Greco and Freestyle.
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And so in Greco, he got the gold medal.
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And then for Freestyle, got the silver.
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Awesome.
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Well, I just wanted to get that out there.
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Huge congrats to you, to him, and to all the athletes.
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It's awesome to see, and awesome to see your wrestling group crushing it, too.
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Awesome.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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All right, so going into today, we recently just came off of ConjugorCon, where we had a few of the coaches speak on their interpretation of the system with their specific demographics or populations that they train.
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And so today's podcast is going to be over interpreting the conjugate system.
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Now, Tom, I've got a question for you before we dive into this.
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So Louie entrusted you to carry Westside Barbell forward.
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What does that mean to you?
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Everything.
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So I condense it down.
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It really means I'm running two jobs at once.
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One side is the legacy, and we have physically separated out two gyms.
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We have the athlete's gym where I'm at, and then we've got the HQ gym where you're recording the podcast from.
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And that is where everything from the legacy is housed.
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It's where the record board is, it's where the dead wall is, it's where the old school gym is with all the equipment in there.
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Nothing has been given away.
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Everything is still there.
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Even the stuff that's broken, dusty, is kept upstairs.
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And the goal is that everyone knows where we came from.
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So visitors can come in, you'll take them through tours, they get to see artifacts and stuff from Louis' private collection, his scrapbook, you see Louis with a full head of hair, but you get to know the history and where everything had its origins from, even from talking from Culver City all the way up to the passing of Louis.
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And the goal is that we never forget our roots and that the legacy will always be spread when people come visit.
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And so that's one side, it's the custodian to the legacy.
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And because from there comes the principles we use today.
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And that's what we do at HQ is that, or sorry, at the athlete gym, our goal is to keep pushing the conjugate system with different athletes and to show how it can be adapted or interpreted into the sport they're in and based on the context in front of you.
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So we move from a club setting and the legacy to a strength conditioning.
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Yeah.
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setting in the athlete gym.
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And that's where we're still proving the system works with the results we're getting.
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Everything is athletes and results.
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That's what we want to keep putting out and showcasing how adaptable this system is once you know the fundamentals.
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You can't just go and make adaptations and interpretations when you have no clue what it's based on.
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If you don't know the fundamental science and all the time that Louis put into it and the lifters put into it.
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But yeah, to cut it down, it's two jobs.
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One is the legacy, be the custodian.
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The other is working with the athletes we have now, improving it with them.
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Okay, that was good.
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Did Louis say anything about what he wanted protected versus like what he was fine with as far as evolving?
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I mean, Louis was always evolving.
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If you read through all his articles, like from Powerlifting USA to...
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I think the first one is Don't Chase Your Taos on the website.
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You'll see there's always an evolution, but there's a backbone of principles through it.
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One thing was clear that the Powerlifting Club...
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I've said this multiple times before, but the Powerlifting Club stops when he passed away for multiple reasons.
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One, you'll never replicate Louis.
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Like, he is...
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one of the most unique people in the world, but the way he ran the gym, his, I mean, experience, foresight, everything, you just can't replicate that.
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All you can do is water it down or dilute it.
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The same with the people that came to train with him, all his powerlifters and athletes.
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So once that was,
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kind of, once that was stopped, and then we turned it into basically a living museum for the legacy to showcase where we came from.
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That's what he wanted.
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And then for what we're doing now is just showcasing that, hey, show how the conjugate system can work for all sports.
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And the goal is to educate, is to show coaches, hey, you don't have to follow us verbatim, but you could take principles, you could take aspects from all,
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what was done in the powerlifting world and put it into your own system with your own demographic.
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So that was really it and just don't screw it up.
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Got it.
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Now, how Louie built his reputation on the results versus like some people can kind of build stuff off of marketing.
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Does it ever bother you how much the name conjugate or Westside gets used compared to how the actual methods are getting used?
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Not as much as you would think, because if people are mentioning it, clearly there's some substance behind it.
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If they're not talking about it, then it's like the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
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So if people didn't really want to talk about conjugate or mention it, they wouldn't be doing it.
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What I really care about is the athlete.
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is the athlete been trained underneath whatever that system is.
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And if a coach uses our vocabulary or nomenclature, and the athlete is getting faster, stronger, stays healthy, and is performing in their sport to the best, or to the level that they want to, then I guess the name is doing its job.
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if they're using our terms and phrases and it stagnates the athletes or they get hurt, like that's where the true cost comes in.
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And that's what, like, that's the part that I truly bothers me.
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But, but in general, no, I don't spend time or energy policing the internet.
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You know, this, I'm not the most social media savvy person.
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Don't try to get on.
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We just try spending time making things.
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education based on the athletes in the gym, uh, and then trying to reduce the gap between, uh, the nomenclature of vocabulary, whatever you want to call it, the methods.
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And really that's what we created the pathway for is trying to, uh,
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to help educate people on the gaps of what they might hurt somewhere else.
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And Conjugacon, a huge shout out to Bridge and Coop for hosting that.
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That's why we did that free event was for coaches to show up and like, hey, here is the basis of the conjugate system.
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Here's how others are using it.
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And the goal was like, take something from it.
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And I think in the post-survey, 98% of people learn something that they're going to apply, which is like, that's what we want, just to educate.
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Not to be dogmatic, but to just to pass on what we've learned and what we are learning still.
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So then what does interpretation mean to you versus some of these coaches that might be trying to build a brand around it or the ones that are actually using it to help people?
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Yeah.
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Interpretation to me, you have to earn the right for interpretation.
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And what I mean by that is that you have to know the scientific principles behind it.
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You have to read a lot of books.
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You actually have to have practical experience and know the system the way Louis adapted it.
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the conjugate system is a concurrent way of training.
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Like, conjugate and concurrent to modern day is the same thing.
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It's not the conjugate sequencing system.
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Like, that's where Kashanti's, that's completely different because that's done at blocks.
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But once you understand how Louis came to the methods he did,
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and then how he implemented it and you understand the history understand like the science of practice strength training by that as that's the or ski uh curses books uh science of sport training um once you have a sound foundation and then you've practiced it and you've trained athletes then you to me you earn the right to interpret or adapt it because you understand the fundamentals of it if you don't
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then you're just changing a facade.
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Like you're not going to someone who, I'll give you an example.
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Louis found this hilarious and me not so much.
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In my old office, I was in a warehouse with no windows, had a table against the corner and I was against the corner and we had two people in between me.
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So I'm there, the wall, the person, another person and Louis.
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And this gentleman was telling Louis 10 different ways to improve the reverse hyper.
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And I was just going, what the heck?
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And then I go, have you ever used reverse Cypher?
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He was like, no.
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I'm like, how can you suggest these changes?
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But once you understand it, then you can actually, and lack of a better word, you earn the right to interpret it because you've done it and you know it inside and out.
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Now you know...
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how to practically implement stuff, you have enough experience with it.
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Then you adjust it for the demographic.
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And then you interpret because you understand the fundamentals of athletic development to make accurate changes rather than just changing around words or giving your definition of what max effort is.
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These are principles.
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These are stuff that has definitions for it.
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You can change the definition.
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You can come up with something else for sure.
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But you have to know it inside and out before you actually start giving your, in my opinion, your own interpretation or adaptation to it.
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Okay.
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So where would you say is a line between legitimately adapting the Kanji method for the sport demands for the athlete that's in front of you versus just barring that vocabulary for the training just to sound credible?
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mean the simplest line is uh we have to make sure the words still mean what they mean like if i want to put it simply of like there's definitions for a reason and um
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It's important because if there's so many different definitions for the same thing, then people are not going to know what is real.
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So then if someone keeps changing, just say for max effort, if they come up with, I don't know, the Mac heavy lifting method.
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And you're like, well, what does this mean?
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It's like, just keep the definition, the definitions.
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And then at least put out some literature behind what you're doing.
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But that's the simplest way I can do it.
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I'm not a big fan of extreme Latin terminology when explaining stuff.
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Like, I'm a simple person, so I try to learn simply and educate simply.
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Yeah.
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But usually when the terms are used for decoration, you can tell fast, like because if you ask them what percentage they're working off and against what max and then again, the justification, like what band tension is, how it shrinks, how it increases, what they rotate.
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And that's why, like if you go in a few questions, they usually get stumped after a while.
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Yeah.
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So a coach who was adapting can answer pretty quick.
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Usually a coach who was just trying to put on the facade, they'll change the subject.
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That's a good point right there.
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And so just piggybacking off that for a second, like Louis evolved how he applied it in the gym based on the numbers, the results, and everything that was happening.
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Do you see any kind of almost like a standard where the outcomes drive the change?
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Or are some people using the, I interpret it this way, now becoming an excuse that doesn't require any kind of outcomes at all?
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outcomes are the standard always.
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like results are, is what's most important.
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And to get to that, the athlete has to be healthy, display the skills and have more access to themselves to, I guess, to reach their goals.
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And if outcomes are the standard, that's the discipline that keeps freedom from turning into absolute chaos.
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Because you have a lot of freedom within this system, but if outcomes are not the standard, then why are we doing this?
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When you're working with athletes, especially compared to the general population who might have more health objectives and longevity, that's a longer outcome to look at.
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But for athletes, we're looking at results.
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They're looking at results.
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They won't be in the best possible position to reach their sporting goals.
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Every industry, no matter what people do, there's always goods and bads to everything, right?
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So you got coaches doing stuff for traction and all that, and that's what they do.
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But you also have some coaches that they're not online, they're not chasing the audience.
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They truly care, and they're passionate about the athletes they work with.
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Have you seen any of those type of coaches that are doing it because they have the love for coaching?
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End up, you know, have you ever seen like a success story with a coach that isn't doing it for popularity?
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Hundreds.
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Hundreds.
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You know who I'll isolate is the high school strength coaches we talk to.
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Like I have, I hold them in the highest regard, especially in today's age and especially in the States.
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This is where athletes actually are going to get long-term development.
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Because if they go to college, you don't know how long they're going to be in that program for with NIL, with how the landscape is changing.
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But the high school strength coach are the unsung heroes of our industry.
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Those are the ones that are going out trying to get funding for their gyms.
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They're trying to use boosters, whatever they can, just to get a weight room together.
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They deeply care about the athletes.
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They work extra long hours.
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They don't get paid a lot of money.
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And they're trying to figure out the logistics of how do I train 30, 50 kids, and I've got five power racks.
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I've got one glute ham developer.
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I've got some sleds.
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And talking to them, you just learn so much of like how you can adapt the system and you can see their interpretations of how they're using it.
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So there's there's hundreds.
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But those are the stories that are awesome because they're problem solving on the spot.
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and they care deeply and not just it's everything outside the weight room they do it's the programming we had one uh strength coach open mouth but in a university that has think four staff and 500 athletes and like that just the logistics of that isn't possible but they make it work uh high school setting they're trying to get equipment in the gym like they're going above and beyond just strength conditioning and then they're there for their
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doing good in school, trying to set an example, trying to build up their physical literacy.
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So if they go to college, they're at an advantage.
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So they're not having to learn technique.
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They're proficient in spotting their really good training partner.
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All that is set in the high school level.
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So to me, that's the huge part.
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I like that you mentioned that because one thing that I always picked up was if you're an athlete, let's say like he's training here.
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Now he transfers to a, or goes to a university that's further away and is no longer here.
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Right.
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But the way that athlete trains is a reflection of the person that coached him prior.
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Right.
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And I thought like the amount of strength coaches who call up the college coach, right?
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And basically just go, hey, here's the athletes coming from you.
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Here's all the data I have.
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Here's the personality.
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Anything you can do to help, let me know.
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I'm like, if you look online, like you've got everyone hating each other.
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But if you look at these coaches, really, like the meat and potatoes of strength conditioning, everyone wants what's best for the athlete.
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So if I can give information or pass on any data, I'm going to do so.
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If it helps them, that's my job.
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And that's what the high schools do.
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on a yearly basis.
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It's like they put all this time and effort into an athlete and then they go to college.
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That's why a lot of athletes, when they go to pros, they keep coming back into their high school or sometimes their collegiate strength coach because they made that relationship.
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It's huge.
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It's kind of one of the most fulfilling parts of the job.
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I love that you mentioned about the high school coaches reaching out to college coaches.
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That's something that I've been doing a lot lately.
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So with that being said, when a coach reaches out to you specifically and he says, hey, I run this version of conjugate, is there any questions that you ask them to see kind of where they're at or how true that is versus what they're claiming?
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Yeah.
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um i just try to to understand like everything comes back down to uh justification like that's the the big thing then the the questions are i just want to know what their philosophy and culture is first and foremost i think that's a big thing to to understand um and then you just kind of ask him like
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What do you keep?
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What did you change?
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And then try to figure out like, OK, like you just kind of go through the list and then like, why did you change it?
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Because then you're understanding the context of the the confinements that were within within the program or the facility.
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Then how do you know it's working?
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Like, do you have results?
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That's the big thing.
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And then another good question, I think, come from me, came from another coach, but
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he was like, what would it take to change it to the gold standard?
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Like, what would you have to change here, and would you change it?
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But if you, basically, if you had no...
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constraints, how would you train them?
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Then you understand like, okay, here's the philosophy and this is why it would start here.
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But given the athletes, the equipment, the staff level, the amount of days they can train all that, it ended up into this.
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But if you can fundamentally find that out, then like those are kind of the questions I would talk to coaches because one, it's very interesting.
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to see how people have to adjust the system.
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But if they're not able to answer any of that, and they're not able to tell me, like, is it actually working?
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And they don't have any objective numbers to back that out.
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Again, outcomes are just standard.
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So, and it's not just outcomes in the weight room, it's outcomes on the sport or in the sport they're in.
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Because plenty of coaches can crush the weight room.
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They can make their athletes stronger or faster underneath the bar, but are they getting better at their sport?
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So, yeah.
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Is there one thing that you see that commonly gets slapped with the, this is Westside or this is conjugate label that Louis might have pushed back hard on?
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I don't think Louis didn't slap back publicly much.
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One is about the athlete.
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Are they getting hurt?
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He used to hate when athletes are getting hurt.
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And especially when it wasn't during the sport, like there is, um, I can't remember what a reporter is reading, but the resistance training is one of the safest ways to train compared to sport.
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Like the injury rates in the weight room is very low.
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And, um, that stuff he would push back against and then, uh, having no rationale for exercise rotation, just change them for the sake of changing it.
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Like that's a, a big thing.
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And then, um, um,
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Max effort.
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Like, max effort is such a powerful tool, but if it's done incorrectly, like, it can flatten an athlete.
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Like, to understand why you're doing it and to understand when and where to do it.
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But maxing out with no plan around it, like, that makes no sense.
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Like, maxing out for the sake of maxing out is just a recipe for disaster.
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yeah I think that was that'd be really but it'd be like Louis had a saying I think he got it from one of the was it the Lormers or someone but he's like show me what you've done
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That was his big thing, like, show me what you've done as a strength coach.
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Like, show me the results, show me the athletes you've trained.
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It doesn't matter if you were private, high school, collegiate professional.
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That's what he's most interested in.
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Because everyone can talk good theory, but show me the actual numbers.
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Show me what you've done.
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Like if someone had a half understanding of the system and applied it with the athletes, but was still getting positive results.
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Have you ever seen that?
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Yes.
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And look, if the athletes are genuinely improving, staying healthy, most of the concern is gone because the athletes, their development is always the main point.
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So I'm not interested in trying to police the name when the work is good because there's multiple ways to get to the end result.
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It just mightn't be how we would do it.
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But the other side, like the name conjugate still matters for one practical reason, and it's not pride.
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The labels, the names given are how knowledge travels.
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So when a coach calls something conjugate and it's not, every young coach who copies or inherits a wrong definition, that error then compounds downstream.
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So three coaching generations later, someone is running something with no relation to the system.
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And then they're failing with it, concluding conjugate does not work.
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And we've seen this a lot like, hey, conjugate didn't work for me.
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And I was like, well, like, who did you learn it from?
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Who did you talk to?
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And this is not like you have to be at West Side to know everything.
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Like Louis studied from Soviet doctors and scientists through books and then to practical experience.
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So the dishonesty is not a sin against Westside.
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It's noise injected into professions, like share vocabulary.
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And at the end of the day, the athlete suffers.
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So that's why I worry about the name.
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I'm all for people naming their own personal brand or their personal brand.
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uh, system of training.
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Um, but it's, it's important for that practical reason is that it doesn't get so diluted that like long after we're dead, people have a version of conjugate that is nothing from the principles we've learned from.
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Um, so like, I, I, I,
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do try to educate, like you do, like Burley does, of like, hey, it's important to know these things.
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And it's important that you know, like, hey, this is where the conjugate method, again, not the conjugate sequencing system, the conjugate method, which is concurrent training based on the three principles or methods
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Max effort, dynamic effort, and repeated effort, and then special strengths utilized within it.
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But once you have that core going out, then all for it.
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I just don't want it to be so watered down that people say it doesn't work without actually using the system as we do.
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I really like that you touched on that because that's one thing.
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We get a lot of calls, a lot of visits where coaches interpreted the system from somewhere.
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or someone, and they come here and they show their data, they show what the training looked like.
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Whereas when that happens, we can actually sit down with them and say like, hey, this might not be how we would have done it based off the information given, which is another big thing.
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Do you just want to touch on that real quick?
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When people are asking you a question about the program, what context would you like them to give?
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Because that's a major part of this as well.
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I just want to know what athletes are working with, what facilities they have access to, to who are their mentors.
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Like what's their lineage is a big thing of like, because like there is multiple other strength coaches out there to learn from.
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You should try to learn from everyone, but you should have your own core principles and values you hold yourself to.
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Cause then that'll allow you to filter through what works, what doesn't work.
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And like,
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I have, like, do whatever works and benefits the athlete.
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Once you're not getting hurt and getting better, all for it.
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And even if you want to say conjugate inspired or built off conjugate, like, that's completely fine.
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Just if it's not the, like...
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the version of conjugate or the conjugate method as Louis has taught it, then just don't say it is.
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It's as simple as that really.
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Like you can give credit to who you learn from, give credit to Lou.
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But it's a, yeah, it's a tough one to answer because it's, there's so much noise in our industry.
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And especially that conjugate has become very popular in the name.
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And there's so many different spinoffs of it.
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Some are great.
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Some are not.
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But...
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But it just comes down to, if you're researching into it, just go more than skin deep.
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Just try to get into it.
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I'm like, where is this coming from?
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Who are they working with?
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Are they actually working physically with the athletes?
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Are they working remotely?
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Where do they get the inspiration from?
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Who are their mentors?
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Like, what are their beliefs?
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What are their cultural values?
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All these things will help shape the information you're getting, whether it's good or not.
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Okay.
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And what would you think Louis would think of as far as how many coaches are out there using the system and, you know, getting results and improving athletes?
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I mean, I think one of the prompts because the whole idea was to get this out to everyone.
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It was never to gatekeep everything.
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And Louis built his reputation on results and then let the reputation do the marketing.
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So I think he would find some of the people building audiences funny and somewhat hollow.
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But he wouldn't have, like, Louis is so focused on Westside, the gym, his athletes, that he
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When you came here, you entered into his universe.
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So the outside world was just shut off because his biggest competition was himself, was the gym, was the athletes.
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So because he gave away the methods his whole life, like talk to everyone on the phone, had visitors, give articles, seminars.
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And he wanted it used.
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He wanted it out there.
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And earning his respect had nothing to do with how many followers you had, had everything to do with proof and general curiosity.
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Show them your athlete's numbers going up.
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asked one question that showed you actually read the material and ran it disagree with them uh but once you had data behind you he respected that more than than anyone agreeing without it like he just wanted numbers he was a numbers guy and um and be strong to yourself uh and hopefully like you're making your athletes strong so um
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Like, he had no patience, like, for commentary or people just talking fluff.
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Or, like, he didn't know social media.
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Like, he wanted us to give out his house number on our Instagram page before.
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I'm like, Louis, you have hundreds of thousands of followers.
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Like, you're going to get so many calls, like, non-training related.
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But he just, like...
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The same thing, like, what did your athletes do this year?
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He just wanted to know, like, are they better now than they were at the start of the year?
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What did you do?
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And he would ask these questions to coaches all the time.
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Okay.
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If someone wanted to learn the system or learn how to interpret the system, where would you recommend them to go first?
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Before you get into it, save your money.
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Read the blogs, watch the podcasts, all the early Louis podcasts.
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There's hundreds, if not thousands of blogs we have out free of charge.
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try to learn from Lou first and then Louie referenced everyone he learned from.
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So go on our reference treasure hunt and see all the literature he got and who he studied from.
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And then after that, if you like it or into it and want to learn more about coaching, we have our pathway, which starts at level one, going into from cultural to program design to training,
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how to train the main lips, how to spot weaknesses.
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Like there's levels to this and I'm not going to go out here and you'll probably punch me after this podcast, but, um, you don't have to spend a lot of money initially.
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You just have to read and watch and listen and then actually go out and do something.
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Um,
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Don't just live theoretically in your head because then you'll come up with 10 different ways to train.
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And because we'll see it with some of the programming that comes in for review.
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And you're like, this coach has never done this before because on paper, it is the most perfect program that ever existed.
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It will take you three and a half hours to execute.
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And it's just not practical.
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But that I would just like utilize the articles, the YouTube videos, all the content that's out there and just don't stay to us.
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Like be broad focused, like look at.
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those accomplished in the field of strength conditioning, those accomplished in the field of science, people who've actually been in it for 30, 40 plus years, see what they've done in different industries too, because then that'll broaden your horizons of how to actually program.
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And then like...
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biased I am, but the system we have is it allows you to pull all the good things from different programs and actually put it into one system that functions and adapts in a weekly timeframe.
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Then if you just want to follow something like we have Conjure Club, which Burley runs, which has programming in there,
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A lot of like Louis master classes are in there too, which are not released to the public, but there's so much information there, but I would just start around Westside and around the person who really popularized the word Kanji, which is Louis Simmons.
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I don't think most of you would have heard of that, heard of bands or chains or accommodating resistance.
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He definitely pioneered and popularized it in the modern day, because when he started out, there was no real strength conditioning coaches.
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There definitely wasn't a private strength conditioning coach, like what he was doing.
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00:32:10.310 --> 00:32:12.931
And he backed into his profession through mastery of powerlifting.
381
00:32:13.572 --> 00:32:15.213
He didn't go through the academic route.
382
00:32:15.253 --> 00:32:19.115
He spent 40 plus years, 150 plus world records.
383
00:32:19.695 --> 00:32:21.556
Five were in his neighborhood when he first started out.
384
00:32:22.897 --> 00:32:26.238
And the outcomes set the standards.
385
00:32:26.619 --> 00:32:31.761
So I would go there and then from there, then progress into looking at people's interpretations.
386
00:32:31.781 --> 00:32:33.963
Because then you got a better judgment system.
387
00:32:34.883 --> 00:32:39.505
It's like I listen to podcasts of stuff I've got no clue about.
388
00:32:39.985 --> 00:32:45.408
It might be like a building podcast or something about engineering.
389
00:32:45.448 --> 00:32:46.969
And I'm like, this is absolutely amazing.
390
00:32:47.689 --> 00:32:49.370
And then I go research it.
391
00:32:49.430 --> 00:32:50.650
I'm like, that was all wrong.
392
00:32:50.971 --> 00:32:54.532
But I had no clue because I got no first principles or understanding of it.
393
00:32:55.233 --> 00:32:59.915
So it's very hard to filter out stuff when you've got no underlining education into it.
394
00:33:00.848 --> 00:33:05.389
So go out, there's so many free resources out there and just kind of get yourself educated.
395
00:33:05.409 --> 00:33:10.190
And I would strongly urge you to, if you want to learn conjugate, learn from Lou.
396
00:33:10.310 --> 00:33:13.631
Look at his references, look where he learned from, and then go out.
397
00:33:14.251 --> 00:33:14.731
Excuse me.
398
00:33:16.571 --> 00:33:16.931
Okay.
399
00:33:18.471 --> 00:33:25.793
Well, if you could get one thing across to a coach that wants to interpret the system for a specific sport,
400
00:33:26.694 --> 00:33:39.581
right, whether they're working with youth or the highest level athlete that they've ever worked with, and they're wanting to get the same results that, you know, we're getting with a variety of athletes in the different sports, what would that be?
401
00:33:39.601 --> 00:33:42.523
Earn it.
402
00:33:44.624 --> 00:33:51.088
Like every legitimate advance to strength conditioning came from someone who mastered the existing body of work before they changed it.
403
00:33:52.837 --> 00:33:57.479
Like no one, like you have to earn it, have done something and then change it.
404
00:33:58.080 --> 00:33:59.600
You can't change something you know nothing about.
405
00:34:01.101 --> 00:34:08.845
So like if I could put it simply, like, Louis did an event like the dynamic effort out of thin air.
406
00:34:09.165 --> 00:34:17.850
Like he studied the material and then ran out of himself on his lifters and then constantly measured what happened and then adapted them for over four decades.
407
00:34:18.777 --> 00:34:22.638
So do the same with your own system, but you just have to earn it.
408
00:34:23.278 --> 00:34:31.341
And I can't stress enough that to advance something, you have to have mastered it fundamentally.
409
00:34:31.441 --> 00:34:40.023
I don't know enough about it, but I can imagine the progression of engines and cars started from people who didn't know how the original engine was built.
410
00:34:41.501 --> 00:34:47.246
Like you have to understand the fundamentals and have mastered that before you can actually change it.
411
00:34:48.186 --> 00:34:51.129
And then practically run it, not theoretically.
412
00:34:53.270 --> 00:35:00.536
And when you say earn it, are you talking about having the highest successful athlete?
413
00:35:00.556 --> 00:35:09.804
Or are you talking about having the largest gym numbers in a high school or the most success from lifting and performance on the field or court?
414
00:35:12.462 --> 00:35:27.516
whether you have a thousand athletes you ran or 10, it's earning it through physical practice that you've studied it, you've applied it and you've had success and you've had success more than once over and over again.
415
00:35:28.957 --> 00:35:32.420
To me, it's not the numbers like, well, I shouldn't say that.
416
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:34.822
It's not the amount of athletes you have.
417
00:35:35.803 --> 00:35:36.824
It's the, um,
418
00:35:39.473 --> 00:35:45.158
It's the success with the outcomes you've had with whoever's in front of you, and it's repeated over time.
419
00:35:46.358 --> 00:35:48.499
that's like what you're looking for.
420
00:35:48.540 --> 00:35:50.101
So that's what I mean by earning it.
421
00:35:50.121 --> 00:35:52.402
I'm not looking for, I don't want someone coming here.
422
00:35:52.442 --> 00:35:56.024
I trained 5,000 people and we got all these results.
423
00:35:56.085 --> 00:35:58.346
I'm like, how can one person train 5,000 people?
424
00:35:58.766 --> 00:36:00.708
Like it's impossible.
425
00:36:00.728 --> 00:36:06.652
But what I mean by is like you have a body of work that if someone comes up to you, go show me what you've done.
426
00:36:07.312 --> 00:36:08.053
Here's what I've done.
427
00:36:08.273 --> 00:36:09.674
Here are the actual names of the people.
428
00:36:10.314 --> 00:36:11.195
Here's the pre and post.
429
00:36:11.215 --> 00:36:12.396
Here's the success in the sport.
430
00:36:13.296 --> 00:36:19.841
And whether you have hundreds of them, whether you have four or five, like that's all equally as important.
431
00:36:22.283 --> 00:36:24.705
Well, I think that's the perfect mic drop right there.
432
00:36:26.046 --> 00:36:28.828
That's really all the questions I got for you, Tom.
433
00:36:29.488 --> 00:36:35.133
You got anything you want anyone to hear before we cut this one?
434
00:36:36.714 --> 00:36:37.454
Doors are always open.
435
00:36:39.355 --> 00:37:02.248
we will respond to all emails if anyone's got any questions uh anyone has any objections or doesn't believe in the system we'll gladly talk to them uh visitors always hoping to come see the gym get a workout in and uh hopefully next time mac you won't try get me into a corner here and say something um but just just educate yourself and
436
00:37:03.555 --> 00:37:07.159
This really is a simple system once you understand it fundamentally.
437
00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:12.365
And just earn the right, earn the right to interpret and advance the system.
438
00:37:13.264 --> 00:37:20.752
Like I've been here since 2011 and really only the last few years is where I felt comfortable actually making the interprets.
439
00:37:21.373 --> 00:37:25.637
We did it in 2013, 2014 with the MMA guys where we did the three-day system.
440
00:37:26.598 --> 00:37:28.941
But now we're really only starting to educate people on that.
441
00:37:29.802 --> 00:37:32.344
So it just takes time and you can't fast forward this.
442
00:37:33.005 --> 00:37:35.027
Like you cannot fast forward practical experience.
443
00:37:35.968 --> 00:37:43.075
Um, you can fast forward getting likes and followers for sure, but the actual practical experience behind it, it just takes time.
444
00:37:45.217 --> 00:37:45.558
Awesome.
445
00:37:46.198 --> 00:37:46.459
All right.
446
00:37:46.479 --> 00:37:47.920
Well, thanks for jumping on today, Tom.
447
00:37:48.701 --> 00:37:53.365
And for everyone that's listening and following, make sure you guys like, and subscribe to the videos.
448
00:37:54.266 --> 00:37:54.907
Stay strong.
449
00:37:55.247 --> 00:37:55.768
Stay tuned.
450
00:38:21.157 --> 00:38:21.239
you
