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Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time
for this week's Interview Classic where Wade Killer
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Interview is one of Pro Wrestling's newsmakers. Five years ago. This week,
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my interview series with EXWWE Creative Team
members continued with Dave Legana joining me with
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a look ahead to twenty nineteen.
Changes on the Horizon with the announce meant
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of all Elite Wrestling and Dave Loghana's
thoughts on where that would go and where
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it would fit into the wrestling industry. Also, the latest on the NWA,
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which he's been involved in are a
wage signings, declining WWE ratings,
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some memories of Dynamite Kid, and
more. This originally live streamed, and
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then in a bonus segment, The
Deep Dive with Rich Fan featured Zach Haydorn
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and they went in depth on wrestling
entrances. I talked about modern entrances,
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wrestlers who do a bit too much
with their entrances. What could take a
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good entrance and make it great,
particularly the wrestlers who can show more personality
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outside of wrestling than they can on
their way to the ring. So it's
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a boat a segment coming up after
my interview with Dave Leghana. That Deep
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Dive with Rich Fan originally aired five
years ago on December eighth, twenty eighteen,
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and it is Today's Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast Interview Classic for Sunday,
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December tenth, twenty twenty three.
So, Dave, I want to start
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off by asking you if you have
memories of the late don My Kid Tommy
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Billington, who died this week at
age sixty, certainly a pioneer of his
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craft influential on a lot of wrestlers
in this industry who were tweeting about him
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this week. Yeah. Actually he
was at the very first I think live
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event I ever went to. I
think I tweeted this morning that the very
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first Babyface I ever cared about was
the British Bulldogs. I wanted to see
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them beat up the Dream Team because
they had they had taken a cigar into
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the eye of Windham a rotunda.
I can never remember which one, and
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I wanted to see them when the
tag titles so so like Din and my
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kid was, you know, to
a ten year old boy was the coolest
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thing he'd ever seen and watching on
Saturday mornings. You know, that tag
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team and that that act was so
cool to a nineteen eighties kid because they
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look like I don't like superheroes.
So you know, I only got to
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see him wrestle I think two or
three times live, and obviously his career
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was cut short, but yeah,
it was. It was very kind of
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sad this morning saying that you and
I are on a similar page. I
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I consider Dynamite Kid certainly in the
top ten and maybe the top five of
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my favorite wrestlers. To watch before
I started publishing The Torch and in the
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top five in terms of turning me
on to what professional wrestling could be athletically
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in a way that I had not
seen. And and this isn't to take
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a dag at my beloved hometown territory, the AWA, but the AWA did
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not have anybody who resembled the Dynamite
Kid. I mean they're the a WA's
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idea of junior heavyweight wrestling was rock
and roll bock zoom off against Stephen Regal,
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not William Regal, a different Steve
Riegel mister Electricity, and mister Electricity.
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Steve Riegl was the opposite of mister
Electricity. It was almost like a
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troll job to name him that name
it. It's like name of a guy
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left who's actually right, yes,
yes, and they open end up.
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They would often be in the opening
matches on AWA shows, and it was
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basically to make people who arrive late
and not feel bad. And that that
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was such in star contrast to the
I opening British Bulldogs matches Yes against the
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Dream Team. I think those matches
on Saturday Night's main event are more influential
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than in terms of fans like who
are similar to us in age in the
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eighties were as influential as any matches
I think out there. You know,
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people talk about us Ricky Steamboat and
Randy Savage at Wresselmany three, and rightfully
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so. But what Dynamite Kid and
Davy boy Smith did and Greg Valentine was
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was such a good opponent for them
at that time, and then obviously later
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on the Heart Foundation with Brett Hart, which was phenomenal. What they did
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in the ring was unlike anything you
could see in just about any US territory
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at that time. With Dynamite Kid
bringing that style over from the UK and
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and and honing his craft and stamped
wrestling in Canada, I was, it
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was so different and so much more
athletic than anything. I mean, I
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does anything compare to it in terms
of uh being a pioneer and revolutionary in
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a sense, No, I mean
the era, And like I don't want
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people to like I think people think, oh, he's just like he would
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have been great in this era,
but like, go back and watch,
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like we used to actually pull tapes
from the w library when we're there and
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watch the House Show matches, the
Madison Square Garden matches. They would have
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with the with the I was about
to say the Midnight Express, which they
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never I don't think of it worked, but that they had with the heart
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foundation and like just understanding of what
it was meant to get over and like
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real shine, to understand how to
shine up a baby face. Like they
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they were such had such chemistry and
you know, people I don't think really
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realized and I didn't realize until I
really went into the Houston Library that we
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have the license on to see where
these guys perfected their craft. And obviously
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that group had been from Calgary and
Japan and just like you know the guys
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from in Atlantic came to work for
Vince. Like these guys wrought such a
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different style. And you know,
I feel like he was too early on
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the case, like he didn't make
the Cable era. I mean he was
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there, but you know so transformational. I mean, from Ben Wand to
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Davey Richards, so many guys that
just kind of patterned themselves after him and
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like literally yeah, I mean there's
so many guys that understand like what he
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offered, and you know it's and
like there's a Matt Higen, Ricky Stebo
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had a match with the Wrestling Classic, and I remember it being like the
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most amazing thing I had seen.
I think I saw the video tape because
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I didn't have the pay per view
at that time, so it's you know,
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I think a lot of people are
going to watch a lot of his
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matches. And I never met him. I heard he was a horrible human
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being. I read. I was
telling Jonathan Snowden today on Twitter that his
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book was the very first thing I
ever bought on this website called Amazon because
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00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:03.720
a place I could get it like
and you had to order it from the
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00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:07.000
UK, and it was the shipping
was more than the book at the time
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to get it. But yeah,
it was the very weird morning of morning
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finding that out, and you know, it's very sad, all right,
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So let's just set the table here, introduce ourselves formally. This is the
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Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Saturday, December eighth, twenty eighteen, a
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special double dose of Interview Friday slash
Interview Saturday. Yesterday, we added a
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show that was not planned and bumped
this a day later because of the death
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of Larry the ax heading pretty boy
Larry Hending. I wanted to do a
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show dedicated to him. He was
a top wrestler in the AWA for decades
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on the sixties, seventies into the
eighties. He was on the first wrestling
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show I ever saw in person,
the night Verngani retired Larry the ax heading
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a co top babyface, one of
the top baby faces in the company was
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on that show also and wanted to
talk to George Shire, AWA wrestling historian
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about Larry's contributions to the business.
He just Larry's was. Larry's journey was
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00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.919
just such a cool journey in that
he got to wrestle a full, full
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career, mostly staying near home,
which he wanted to, and stayed involved
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in wrestling, going to get togethers, including the Progressing Hall of Fame every
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July in Waterloo, Iowa. It's
just not going to feel the same at
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00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:22.720
the Progressing Hall of Fame Weekend,
the tregos says, Progressing Hall of Fame
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Weekend in Waterloo, Iowa without Larry
there at the banquet and taking part in
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00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:33.440
different panel discussions. So not only
did I include my conversation with George Shire
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about Larry's career, but that was
sort of a long introduction and a thorough
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introduction to an interview that I conducted
with Larry at the Prosing Hall of Fame
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last July. Along with Progressing Towards
senior columnist Bruce Mitchell. We interviewed both
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00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.440
Larry the Axending Andikita Koloff together and
it was so funny like that. I
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don't I'm never I mean, I
don't conduct many podcasts or interviews in front
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of live audiences, but Larry had
people laughing constantly. You will laugh listening
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00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:03.360
to it. So if you missed
yesterday's downloader haven't gotten to it yet,
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00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.720
be sure you make an appointment listening. I think a really interesting journey that
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Larry went on in the interview with
Larry that that follows is hilarious. Need
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00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:16.120
an extra dose of positivity in your
wrestling podcasts? Will come join me Alan
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00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:22.279
forel Over in the Progress Paradise at
Peterbo Torch vip as we mask on the
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00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.519
bright side of wrestling and focus on
some of the great matches and shows from
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00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.360
around the world, be it the
US, Japan, Europe or Mexico.
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00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.240
There's always a place for wrestlings past
in the Paradise too, and we've done
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00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:39.440
fun historical shows such as the We
Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of
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00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.799
Jusian Thunderliger and our eye was there
when shows where our guests will join me
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to talk about a classic bout that
they were in attendance for. We love
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00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.720
variety and you can expect lots of
it at the Prorest Paradise. Detailed pw
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00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.200
Torch VIP subscription information and a list
of all the VIP benefits is available at
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00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:03.840
pterwrew torch vip info dot com.
And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible
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with popular podcast apps on iPhone and
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directly from our ad free VIP mobile
site. See you in the Paradise.
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00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.559
All right, So I want to
get back to Dave Leganta here and follow
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up with a question about a term, Dave that you used when talking about
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the British Bulldogs. Use the term
shine getting shine on a baby face.
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Just elaborate and what that is.
I think people hear that term and if
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they watched out of my kid matches
this weekend, what to look for and
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what do you mean by that?
And it's it's more, it's not even
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just a wrestling thing. It's there's
a there's a term in the movie.
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As I was telling you, I
just adopted a cat called save the cat
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at the beginning of a movie.
And I've talked about this book a lot.
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You have to do something in the
first two to five minutes of a
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movie, a story or match,
to make the audience go, that's my
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I love that guy. He just
pulled the cat out of the tree.
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00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:09.440
So like they understood building in moments
in the match that made you really root
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for them, Like, so either
something cool, something that they like,
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something high flying, something without smart
at the heels early, so you knew
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right away that they were the guys
that you wanted to root for, and
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did something amazing spectacular, you know, and it's interesting to have great heels.
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You understood you can show your ass
early because you're gonna get that quote
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00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.480
unquote heat later. And I've never
wrestled a match in my life, but
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I understand enough story to know if
I want somebody to root for me,
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00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.120
I gotta do something to make them
care. And you know that was why
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00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.639
this morning, like I was like, you know, he was the first
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baby Base ever cared for. And
I never understood why until obviously much later
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in my life. But they they
understood the psychology of the business to do
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that. And I asked that because
it isn't just about the crisp, hard
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hitting moves and then obviously the the
high flying, the innovative high flying for
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its era. That stood out about
them and it's it's how well rounded workers
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00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:07.799
that they were. But yeah,
it is a remarkable book, Pure Dynamite,
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00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:11.480
the Autobiography of Dynamite Kid Tom Billington. It's it's quite the read because
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00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.679
he does not it was published back
in nineteen ninety nine, and he does
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00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:20.200
not mask what he was like as
a person. He sort of makes a
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00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.399
case for why he was the way
he was, but he's incredibly unapologetic about
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00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.000
some It's a fascinating look behind the
scenes that at you know, when you
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00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:31.360
know, complaining about physic man finding
docking them pay for things that they were
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doing, and the politics and the
personalities of rests at the time. It
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was a fascinating book. And I
guess when I think of it, I
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think of it the two words I
think of our blunt and unapologetic. When
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it comes to his autobiography. It's
funny in the social media era, like
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to hear somebody sort of speak to
that level of to that level of the
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business at that way. So yeah, I thought it was, you know,
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probably somewhere in my stuff. I
don't even know where would be,
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but I'd love to read it again. Yeah, I've already got it pulled
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out to read over again. Okay, cool, Well, let let's introduce
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ourselves in the show and everything here. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
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Podcast and it is Interview Friday for
Friday, December seventh, twenty nineteen.
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My guest today is Dave Legana,
who is the vice president of Lightning Media
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and the NWA. Did I get
that right? Is it lightning Lightning one,
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Lightning one? Come on, shoot, yeah, at Lightning one.
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Now it's you know, and I
think you know, people wondered why we
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kept saying lighting one, and obviously
you know the work we're doing with the
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Ring of Honor, it just we
are. We're more than just the NWA.
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So absolutely so, talk a little
bit about your your background, your
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time in WWE, and what you've
done since then, and then we'll use
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that as sort of a launching point
for a variety a wide range of topics
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today. I joke with people recently
that. If you look at my resume,
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it reads in reverse. You know, I'm now working in the wrestling
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scene. But I started actually before
even worked at W. I worked in
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television production, you know, writing, you know, worked at an agency,
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worked on Friends when I was twenty
four years old, and everybody just
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freaked out that it was coming off
Netflix for about five minutes. And then,
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you know, as a writer's strike
came up in two thousand and one,
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I applied to work for W because
it was strike strike did the strike
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didn't affect it. So I went
to work at WB in two thousand and
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two, the same day the nWo
returned or debut in WW. Spent six
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years there with the lead writer,
head writer, whatever writer SmackDown for four
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of the six. I had spent
one year under Paul Hayman during the feigned
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Bronzed SmackDown six era, and I
was lee writer from two thousand and three
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to two thousand and six, had
the pleasure of shepherding the ECW two point
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zero after Hayman left. If you
see a theme here, and you know
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after a during my time at WE, I've been out of there now over
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ten years, and I've worked at
Ring of Honor TNA now the NWA and
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obviously helping with Ring of Honor again. I think that's hilarious. Your resumeacin
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reverse, like if you turn that
into someone like I think you got the
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dates and the bullet plans of reverse. But it's oesn't you worked on a
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top ten sitcom and now you're in
Bosier City, Louisiana, You know what
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I mean? Like, it's it's
funny when you look at a reverse.
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Now are you loving what you're doing? Now? Though? I mean this
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every cause and I say that,
and I'm setting up the question because you
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have a level of I mean not
that writing for friends wouldn't have been fun
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or being in WWE two in certain
ways what wasn't fun obviously, But there's
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a freedom, a creative freedom to
go along with the wisdom and experience that
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you have that has to be kind
of gratifying right now. Well, it's
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it's so interesting because you know the
era that I was working on sitcoms was
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the last golden era. I mean, like if you got on a sitcom
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and you wrote, for example,
and I made the joke about the green
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envelopes still showing up, which is
like sort of royalties. You know,
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working on stickcoms in the late nineties, if you if you created a Friends,
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you never had to work again.
Just people they just send money to
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your mailbox. I have. I
have about three grand show up every quarter
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for one episode of Friends that I
wrote. That's it, like like literally
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just to check. I don't have
to do anything. It's for imagine for
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a podcast that you recorded in nineteen
ninet nine, someone just sent you money,
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wad like that's just that was the
way it was. And obviously that's
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changed. You know, there's not
as many hit TV shows. Royalties are
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different. But as far as you
know, what I learned from all that,
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just media is shifted. Like tell
me the last great new sitcom everyone
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talks about it's Roseanne and the return
of Murphy Brown, because well there's there's
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like Shit's Creek and Kimmy Schmidt,
but they're not reaching the large audiences.
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It's it's it's it's very niche.
It's it's something you discover on Netflix and
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word of mouth spreads, or you
discover it because it's on the same network
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as Impact Wrestling and it's a Canadian
show that's quirky and you can't wait to
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tell your friends to watch it.
But on this, on this level,
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I mean, it's a yeah,
it's a Will and Grace read because that's
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the people that watch television. And
you know, it's it's so funny how
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things have shifted. And you know, I worked at w during the forgotten
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era. You know, people call
it the ruthless aggression er. It's the
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era they don't talk about, you
know what I mean, Like it's HLA,
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it's it's billion Chuck's wedding, it's
you know, and a lot.
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But it's also the last era they
made a star, you know, John
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Cena, Randy Yorton, brock Lesner, Dave Batista, that that era of
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which they don't pay attention to.
If you go back and look at what
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we did, we got a lot
done. But as far as the freedom
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all of that experience, Raw is
so written exactly the same way that it
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was in two thousand and two.
Vince mcman still approached it the same way
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and by the way it works for
him. He just he just catched out
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twenty two million dollars in stock so
he's doing pre okay, and I think
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as of right now, he's announcing
his football league, which I don't think
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anybody in the world would ever think
would come back and so but but what
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I've learned is is in a niche
world, I've been able to take that
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storytelling experience across very every company out
thing, and I get to have so
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much fun. The fact that,
you know, Billy and I were talking
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about this the other day, that
I get to go to these places and
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find the story. I don't have
to I don't have to pitch something to
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somebody, have someone changing because it
doesn't fit their agenda. We're legitimately trying
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something that is so outside the box
and I don't know, like, oh,
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it's so outside the box Dixie Carter
style. It's just everyone told us
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we were insane to try this this
way, and you know it's I think
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we're very happy with the progress we
have, and you know, a year
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and two months in, you know, we're we're just announced our second event.
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We've we've got a very healthy,
growing, you know, digital video
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business. And but we're also not
we're not saying we're a take over the
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world, and we're not saying we're
gonna challenge Visaman. We just want to
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make good content. Like if you
watch the Harley race piece that we put
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up yesterday. If you have any
touch of the business this, you know
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you will you will enjoy it and
and find something that you really enjoy.
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So so the last time we talked, there was rumblings of an n w
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A studio show, What What What
update us on the aspirations in the in
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the concrete progress of of the n
w A brand and where it fits in
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now in the newer landscape with the
all Elite wrestling situation with r o H
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signing some names this week but also
losing some names, and w w E
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with what they're doing. It's a
big the the uh w W signing,
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the the a lot of talent with
the new n X t u K project,
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and the sense that a lot of
the names UH aren't drawing up but
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they're being restricted in what they can
do. That the glory period of indie
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wrestling is going to have to refresh
itself a little bit with some of the
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restrictions on the big names. UH
So, where we're at now, it's
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funny infest future. I think we
talked in December or January of last year,
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right and try remember when we talked, but that sounds right, yeah,
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So, you know, we had
We've been a lot closer and a
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lot further away on a lot of
things, and we had, you know,
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we we we had a streaming situation
come up that would have we would
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have been producing a weekly streaming show
and it didn't happen due to two different
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mergers that changed management and all that
stuff. But what we got out of
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that was why do we need it? You know what I mean? Why?
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What? What does having more equal
more? I mean there's plenty.
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I mean literally, I think right
now it's Wednesday, isn't ww right?
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The wuks on There's only so much
that a certain niche of the audience can
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watch, and it seems it's very
focused down on that. What we're trying
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to approach and what we sort of
found as we did Ten Pounds of Gold
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was how do we best tell the
strongest story and get a single idea over?
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And I know some people are like, well, you need to go
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faster, I want to a tie
in Missouri middleweight tag team titles to come
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back, and I always right back, why make a five minute video and
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tell me why this means so much
to you? If you can't tell me,
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then why should I put time,
energy and resources into it. But
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that world title, I mean you
saw this year. I think from when
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we talked. I remember year you
did an interview with all this before the
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Aldest Crusade started, and to look
and where it went and all the people
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he's faced and they all in situation
and then wa seventy and you know where
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he's going now with it? You
know it's it's people really care about that
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00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:36.160
title. And then on a time
where I dare you to tell me another
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championship that people actually care about,
so it doesn't exist. No, no,
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it doesn't exist. So so that's
our point. You know, we
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wanted to focus on that simple idea
because Billy and I don't need to be
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as big as this. We have
no aspiration other than to just to build
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out a business or a creative envelope
that allows us to do stuff that we
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like. And I don't have to
I don't have to listen to John Gaborick
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or Vince McMahon or Carrie Silkon,
and I love all of them. But
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like everyone has their ideas, but
it comes down to the execution. And
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obviously the execution that we've done in
the last year I think has shown path.
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You can support us on Patreon and
get these shows with ads and plugs
350
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:23.319
remove, the weight Keller Prosing podcast, Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the
351
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:27.519
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with ads and plugs remove, plus a
352
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:33.279
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353
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.359
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354
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:42.119
Patreon dot com slash PW torch vip
and you can also upgrade to other tiers
355
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:51.920
and receive even more benefits through Patreon. So a year from now, this
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00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:53.039
is you know, the job interview
question, but where you're from now?
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Where is the NWA? Where do
you see yourself on the same path we're
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00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.200
on now? And I think that's
you know. And by the way,
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00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.200
you stopped me last year asking where
the revenue streams were and all this stuff.
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We want to continue to build interest
in this brand, and every that
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we get we try to do that. And in a time where three hours
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of raw exist and like zombies,
everyone watches it waiting for that maybe two
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minutes that you really enjoy, we
try to make sure that every minute of
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our content that we put out you
enjoy, at least builds characters, doesn't
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insult your intelligence, and also just
allows you to kind of feel something.
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So our goal is to continue that
mission. So obviously we started with the
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ten Pounds of Gold. You know, we brought the national title, which
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I knew exactly how people were going
to react to, the as I call
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it, the Seahorse title, you
know, the famed Detroit the Detroit Belt
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that and the Atlantic US title that
we made, the national title which Willie
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Mack has, and you know we're
going to ramp that up in the first
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part of the next year. And
we have Jazz as our women's champion,
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and you know, we're bringing back
the Crockett Cup, which I knew people
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were going to react to. Here's
this tournament that happened three times and I
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think was only good ones, and
people still hold this feeling for it.
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And it's like that when when when
Animal announced it, and I remember everyone
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00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.400
was freaking out about this weird tag
team thing we had announced. I knew
378
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the end of the story. I
knew that we would announced this Crocket Cup
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thing and everyone was going to lose
their mind. So like like That's what
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I want to bring back, is
this feeling. And by the way,
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00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:32.039
most people that are watching wrestling now
weren't Eve gonna lie when the Crockett Cup
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00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.720
happened. Yeah, literally didn't know
what it was. But you know,
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00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:40.480
the idea works, and you know, and and again, as our our
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00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:45.839
demographics are twenty five to thirty five
mail, those are not people that were
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WA fans in nineteen eighty six.
Yeah, so it shows that what we're
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00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:52.279
doing is at least attaching itself to
a new audience. What is it about
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00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:57.720
the NWA name that is attracting the
twenty five to thirty five year old male
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00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:03.400
or does it have to do with
the livery method that you're using to reignite
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00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:08.160
and stir intrist and revive the NWA
brand. Is it more that the medium
390
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:14.799
or the message. It's both.
It's a proven it's a proven mark that
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you know works. And for example, Sears I think either is out of
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00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.440
business or going out of business.
Toys r Us went out of business.
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But if toys r Us reopened tomorrow
with the proper business running it, you
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know what I mean. Toys r
Us didn't go out of business because of
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00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.960
its bad branding. It went on
a business because the thing that people don't
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00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.440
really pay attention to they were when
they went from being a public company a
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private company. They ended up having
to do a debt buyback, which I
398
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.039
know everybody just kind of tuned out
on that discussion, but you know,
399
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.519
they got themselves in a bad business
deal like some wrestling companies, and you
400
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.799
can't get out from that whole.
But the brand of Toys r Us is
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00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.279
very strong, just like the NWA. So if you're a new fan discovering
402
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.039
it, oh wait, I remember
that from watching the w network, you'll
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00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.160
chie'll check it out. And as
Billy and I looked at all the various
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00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.200
brands that were available or starting a
new one, starting a brand from scratch
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00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.720
and coming up with a name,
it's really hard because you have to put
406
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.759
something in someone's mind and have it
be repetitive. Think about wrestling brands that
407
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:21.960
have launched since when Since in the
mid nineties, If had WCW stuck,
408
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.640
Smoky Mountain went out of business,
ECW still has a strong brand value.
409
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:33.480
Can Ring of Honor? That's it? Name another brand that has reached sort
410
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.599
of a critical mass and stuck with
the audience. That's where that's where we
411
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.240
think there's a value of the brand, and I think fans new fans are
412
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.559
discovering it, being able to dive
into history and also coming along on the
413
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.440
ride on the front end. So
you brought it up, not me,
414
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:56.480
the monetizing you you are not focused
on that. But you want to build
415
00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:02.519
the brand? Is it? What's
what's the motivation is it? Is it?
416
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.160
Do you consider it more hobby or
do you consider it let's set ourself,
417
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:11.160
No, you do. We set
ourselves up for an opportunity later to
418
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.039
amplify the brand once we rebuild that
that awareness for it. Is it something
419
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:21.200
in between like how you're running some
shows. So you reacted to the term
420
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:27.839
hobby, but it's not the primary
It's not going to be the primary brand
421
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.000
in professional wrestling, and that's not
what you're aspiring to make it. I
422
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.960
don't think there's anything wrong with that. But do you want to be profitable?
423
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.200
Do you want to add to your
nest egg? Do you want to
424
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.200
give Billy a return on his investment? Is that? Is that a very
425
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.480
hard, hard goal? Also over
the next few years. No, if
426
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:52.160
I told you what we spent year
one y actual profit and loss ww travel
427
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:56.920
for a top talent for one month
is more, yeah so so, And
428
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.839
just think about everything, all the
content got my salary, all this,
429
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.599
all the talent pay days, but
all the smart deals we made in the
430
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:11.119
first year to get to go to
China and get get the first NBA title
431
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:15.519
match in China, and it not
cost us really anything except the partnership that
432
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.759
you know, it's just being smart
with the deals you make to build a
433
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.440
brand. And you know, we
didn't sell a T shirt until June first.
434
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.640
We only did that because of the
all incests. We don't want to
435
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.920
have, like everybody else, our
handout because we have a budget that I
436
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.240
know the number that we can spend
every year, and I was way under
437
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.519
year one. Because everybody looks at
the new rich guy in the business and
438
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:42.319
go, let's milk that money.
Guy. Happens every time, literally every
439
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.279
time everybody runs up and goes,
now, don't listen to that guy.
440
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.920
I'm the guy, and pay me
six figures and I'll be able to get
441
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:55.839
you there, brother, And that's
what happens. And so I am very
442
00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:00.440
frugal, fickle, as our good
friend and O'Brien said last night out what
443
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.640
we spend money run you mean way
back on Tuesday Night earlier this week.
444
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:08.599
Yes, yes, and and like
like that's been very important because literally,
445
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:14.960
I shoot, I edit, I
like I do the audio of ninety five
446
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.119
percent of our content. Why because
I'm a perfectionist. No, because I
447
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.000
want that money to go to work
for us in other places. And I've
448
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.400
I've found a way which, by
the way, on YouTube you can learn
449
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.359
all the same stuff that I've learned
the last three years, because I figured
450
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.839
out three years ago there are only
so many writing jobs and in reality you
451
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.000
don't have as much control. And
for us to build out a series like
452
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:40.759
ten Pounds of Gold, for Ring
of Honor to come to us and say,
453
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:44.119
hey, can you do that for
us? Yeah, and so we're
454
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.200
like that to me is a path
forward. And by the way, it's
455
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.279
the way the media is going.
You know, more people are creating media
456
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:53.519
for themselves and driving costs down because
guess what, it's what you need to
457
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:59.000
do the old running a business like
nineteen ninety nine in twenty eighteen is not
458
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.279
the way to do it. And
two hours on a cable network if they're
459
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.599
paying you for it, but it
just it's a dream scenario that even those
460
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:13.160
networks go, what are we doing
for that money? So that's the interesting
461
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:17.240
part. Yeah, So let's explore
the where the NWA fits in a relative
462
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:22.240
to ro OH now that you are
working with them, to talk about how
463
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:28.279
the dynamic with our or the relationship
with our OH came to be and what
464
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.640
you want where you want to take
that and why you think it's a good
465
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.759
partnership. We've had a I mean
I've had a relationship with Ring of Honor
466
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.400
since almost ten years. I started
Ring of Honor in February two thousand and
467
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:43.519
nine, actually at Leap Day I
believe was my first day Ring of Honor.
468
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.039
And I've always had a good relationship
with Kerry Soaken and then obviously now
469
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:52.319
with Joe co Coff. Joe told
me when I decided to go to our
470
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.000
friend's TNA Impact Wrestling, he goes, You're gonna have the greatest business experience
471
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.240
of your life. Business lesson like
the MBA, and boy did I get
472
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:04.039
one. So when so when our
time at TEENA ended, you know,
473
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.640
Joe was like, come meet with
us and we Billy and I met with
474
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.319
Joe and Greg and pitched this as
a back model to them, we want
475
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.720
to help get talent over build content
and that at the time, they're like,
476
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.039
okay, let's think about it.
You know, time went by,
477
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:22.000
and obviously our our all in partnership
with Cody and you know, the creative
478
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.880
we did for them led to more
opportunities with with Ring of Honor, and
479
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:30.920
obviously Joe was very appreciative of everything
we did for the talents he had under
480
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.519
contract or still has under contract,
and you know, when the opportunity came
481
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.200
up and we said, we'd love
to do more, you know, Final
482
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.720
Battle was the perfect first start,
and all that content was shot, you
483
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.759
know, besides the matches they shot, was all shot in two or three
484
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.599
shows that I went to. And
just like I did ten Pounds, I
485
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:51.359
sat people down and just and here's
the difference. Just talked like I talked
486
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.279
to Jay Lethal. That's Jay Lethal's
real feelings about things. So like,
487
00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:00.720
it's really cool to let these stories
unfold in a very real you know,
488
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.240
Chris Daniels, the interview Chris Daniels
did in I think it's the second episode
489
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.400
of The Pinnacle, it's a very
real thing. What if his Ring of
490
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.599
Honor time ends? You know,
like what if what does What does Bully
491
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.159
Ray really see in the business?
Like, these are real stories and they're
492
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.440
not sort of manufactured. I guess
they are manufactured, but they're not fake
493
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:23.000
if you can understand that they're grounded
in real the real lives of the people
494
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:27.360
you're talking to. I always said
that the closer you are to reality,
495
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:36.000
the better the fiction. In twenty
twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system
496
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:40.440
and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight
497
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:45.000
Years Back, we'll be taking a
weekly look at this page in NXT's early
498
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:51.960
history. Join Kelly Wells and me
Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday
499
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.800
as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and
500
00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:05.639
why they did or didn't work out
exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. So
501
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:07.880
with uh, when you when you
look at what you're doing for Ring of
502
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.639
Honor, what you've done for the
NWA in those videos. Let me bring
503
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:15.760
up WWE and what when you watch
the product and I don't know how much
504
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:21.159
of their current product you're watching,
but even going back to the Ruthless Aggression
505
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.599
era, what could WWE when you
watch the show. What frustrates you as
506
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:30.760
somebody who just touted what you just
did with Jay leith Older Christopher Daniels,
507
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.159
What is WWE doing well that you
go, all right, yeah, I
508
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:37.719
like what they're doing here. And
by contrast, what gaping holes or critiques
509
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:42.239
do you have of their character development
where you think they're missing out on what
510
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:46.400
would connect their wrestlers to today's fans. It's hard to say, because again
511
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.519
I will, I will bouch their
business that they are and they just signed
512
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:53.079
a five billion dollars combined TV deal, right, you know what I mean?
513
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.320
Like you know somebody, somebody thinks
they're doing something. Well, you
514
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.239
know, McDonald's doesn't sell the best
hamburger. They sell the most hamburgers,
515
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:06.599
well not even the most hamburgers.
They've innovated to create the best service.
516
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:07.920
I just went to a couple of
McDonald's, and I don't the last time
517
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:12.239
you went with McDonald's. They've basically
gotten rid of the cashiers because they go
518
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.280
wait people rather. They actually find
that people order more when they use those
519
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.719
those kiosks, and they don't want
to deal with the dumb kid gets their
520
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.360
order wrong. But that's but speed
and service is what's there. WWE has
521
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:28.079
cornered the market on speed and service, meaning they can put a show up
522
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:31.199
and stream it on their network anytime. They have all this time on WTV,
523
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:37.000
like on all these networks, they
have built a machine that is impenetrable.
524
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.639
People have tried for thirty years to
take the Death Star down and not
525
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:44.159
realizing that they you don't have to
take them down, you just have to
526
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:46.400
oh. Exist. So what they
do well is they have built a They've
527
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:51.280
really built a business that again this
time last year their stock was what thirty
528
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:53.000
six dollars, you know, even
though it's come down from the near one
529
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:58.440
hundred dollars, They've built a really
strong business. And I think I think
530
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.079
more time is spent arguably over the
booking that it is the actual business.
531
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:07.559
And yes, do I sit and
watch three hours? No, I can't.
532
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.280
It just doesn't appeal to me because
we live in a world where That's
533
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:13.159
why I said, the show is
written like it's two thousand and two.
534
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:16.280
There's nothing wrong with how it's written, per se. What's wrong is is
535
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:20.480
that if you don't like a segment, you don't even flip anymore. Either
536
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.039
leave it on or you go watch
a five minute YouTube video or you know
537
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:27.920
what, I'll watch clips on YouTube
later. There's no urgency to the content.
538
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.840
There's no you can taste, will
say otherwise, you know, is
539
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.840
there anything to that content that really
makes you go I gotta tune in on
540
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:39.760
Monday night and find out from like
turning the page of a book. I
541
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.079
don't think it does. But also, their business doesn't seem to be predicated
542
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:50.000
on it long run, so much
of what they earn is coming now from
543
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:53.320
the Fox and NBC Universal TV deals. That's actually currently true with the existing
544
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:57.320
deal, which was a big step
up, and it's exponentially so next fall,
545
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.000
starting next fall, So you can
say, well, they don't need
546
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.719
to worry about it for years,
but there is there going to be another
547
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.880
what's your prediction as a student of
this industry and a participant in it?
548
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.800
Is there another TV deal or in
a few years? Are things so different?
549
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.679
It's a completely different playing field because
I look at a one point six
550
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:17.199
to one raw rating and I look
at a one point nine something year ago
551
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:21.719
in a two point wait two years
ago, and you kind of wonder,
552
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.719
when does this stop? How who
is going to be left? Who's young
553
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:30.360
who's still sitting down to watch a
live wrestling show? And is it as
554
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:35.920
inevitable as maybe you can make a
case it is in today's media landscape.
555
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:38.559
Is it really that inevitable that that
is going to go away? Or should
556
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.159
WWE be doing a better job?
And if they did a better job,
557
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:45.400
would the ratings be on the uptick
like they are in the NFL this year
558
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:50.159
compared to a year ago? Is
I guess I say this question with a
559
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:52.519
little bias, which is I think
a better product is not necessarily going to
560
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:59.400
be a victim to declining sharp declines
in people wanting to sit down and watch
561
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:04.000
something really cool and compelling that they're
addicted to live every Monday or Tuesday night.
562
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:07.599
If the product's better, well,
and there's a they're in the volume
563
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:12.880
business. There's an equation that WWE
does on volume. It's why literally there's
564
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:16.239
so much content because they again they
get in a bad business discussions. They've
565
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:21.679
gotten down to the point where they
spend X number of dollars per minute of
566
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.840
content. Literally, that's that they're
in the content business. And yes,
567
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.599
as long as people still watch the
product, as long as people still attention
568
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.320
that they don't care if you like
it or not. They just want your
569
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:37.760
attention. We're in an attention based
business. It's why social media people.
570
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.920
That's like saying troll ratings are down. Trolls just want attention. They want
571
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:45.679
your attention on their product. And
if you if you stop watching, which
572
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.400
I think some people have, but
the good part for them is you can
573
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.079
come back in any you know how
you come back now, You don't got
574
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:55.159
to wait till Monday. You go
into the Google machine and you type WWE
575
00:39:55.480 --> 00:40:00.000
and it pops up. You know, like like the ratings discussion. Yeah,
576
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:05.079
some people say, oh, seven
point four rating in nineteen ninety nine.
577
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.719
Yeah, but well, how many
households was it? How many viewers
578
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.880
was it? I don't even remember
what it was like eight million, right,
579
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:15.599
six million? Yeah? So okay, so rawst two million. So
580
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:21.079
the ratings are what too. So
the drop is not in the ratings number
581
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:24.079
of changes, but the viewers are
definitely less. But also there's so many
582
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:28.760
more choices. When's the last time
you sat down and watch a sitcom live?
583
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.599
Yeah that's been a lot. Yeah, So I mean, like how
584
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:37.519
you watch television in nineteen ninety nine
is vastly day but here but wouldn't you
585
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.159
say a year ago rating and a
two years ago rating is more relevant.
586
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:44.239
I agree with you the comparisons to
the late nineties, there's just too many
587
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.960
caveats. So a rating is a
percentage of people who have cable, who
588
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.719
have access to the show, who
are choosing to watch it, And that's
589
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:54.079
down twenty percent from two years ago, ten percent of a year ago.
590
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:58.599
Yeah. But by the way,
and yes, the NFL peaked back up,
591
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:01.239
but also the NFL one through that
last year with all the stuff with
592
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:05.360
Trump and all that stuff. Like
and by the way, I watched a
593
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:07.400
lot less NFL this year. I
don't know why, just maybe because I'm
594
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:12.239
a little a hair busier, you
know, it's and also my team won
595
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:15.199
the Super Bowl, so like,
so I told Jason Powell, I'm good.
596
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:16.639
After they beat the crap out of
the Vikings in the championship game,
597
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:20.760
I don't have to watch anything anything. Sorry, what did what did I
598
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:27.400
do? But as far as like, you know, people's attention matters.
599
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.679
And but also now we're so niched
where there are people that are way more
600
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:37.079
famous than Brad Pitt, who have
millions of subscribers on YouTube and Instagram that
601
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.400
generate a lot more money than even
Brad Pitt movies, and you wonder what
602
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:45.800
they're not on television. What I'm
saying is is that the metrics comte If
603
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:47.719
you ask ten year olds today,
would you do you want to be a
604
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:53.000
YouTube star or do you want to
be on the Tonight Show someday? Ninety
605
00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.280
nine point five percent are going to
say they want to be a YouTube star,
606
00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:01.239
not someday, what's the Tonight Show? That's exactly, and so you
607
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:07.039
holding onto a nothing you but us
in general holding on to this idea of
608
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.079
well, man, I want to
do stand up on the Tonight Show.
609
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:14.039
It's different now, the fact that
the fact that I can go out and
610
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.360
shoot a video today, turn it
around and put it online and have an
611
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:20.199
infinite number of people watch it,
and it's up to me if it's good
612
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.840
or not. So that's I don't
worry about what w does because they they
613
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:27.679
they have their model, they have
they have their system. We're trying to
614
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:32.360
disrupt a system that drastically needs it
because you have a bunch of carnies still
615
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:38.119
executing the same tricks that they pulled
years ago on people in the hopes that
616
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:42.440
they can just get paid. We're
worried about an audience. We're worried about
617
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.400
building an audience. And by the
way, lapsed fans they still care when
618
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:51.400
when when when we have people come, man, that belt always meant the
619
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:52.719
world of me and seeing what you
guys do to me. And some of
620
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:57.159
it could be fluff, but I
take them at their at their face value
621
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.360
of what they really feel about what
we're doing and how it matches and maps
622
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:05.599
what they really like. And again, as long as I'm not hemorrhaging millions
623
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:07.760
of dollars, which I'm not even
one one hundredth them close to, you
624
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:12.360
know, we're good with our path
moving forward and everybody. I can't worry
625
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.960
about anybody else. And that's the
problem is a lot of people worry about
626
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.199
other people's problems, is they're taking
care of their own. I'm good with
627
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.639
our problems. I love them.
I invite you to email the show with
628
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:27.360
feedback or questions or comments. That
email address is Wade Keller Podcast at ptwtorch
629
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.719
dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at
PW torch dot com. Also welcome your
630
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:36.000
feedback on Twitter. You can follow
us on Twitter at PW torch and follow
631
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:39.960
me at the Wade Keller. That's
at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.
632
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:47.280
You talk about WW being in a
good spot because of their their TV
633
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:53.400
deals, and they've got this kind
of baked in subscribership with the network to
634
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:59.960
some degree. But I still I
push back a little bit on the note
635
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:05.440
that they don't and I'm oversimplifying this
that they only care if people are paying
636
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:07.159
attention to them, but they don't
care if people don't like the product.
637
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:12.719
I think a year ago there were
one hundred thousand people who didn't like the
638
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:15.920
product, who aren't watching anymore because
they got tired of watching a product they
639
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:19.960
didn't like. A year ago,
WB was celebrating, Hey, they're complaining
640
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.559
about us, so that means we've
got their attention, and today they're not
641
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:27.679
supporting them in any way financially.
Two years ago, there were hundreds of
642
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.840
thousands of people who were watching and
weren't happy with what they were seeing,
643
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:35.079
but they were paying attention. And
now they're not paying attention. And so
644
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.920
if we get hung up on well
compared to the Monday at War era and
645
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:42.719
the cable and there wasn't YouTube,
I think that's distracting from the fact that
646
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:49.920
WWE is rapidly driving people away who
want to like professional wrestling live with the
647
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.320
big budget and big stars. They're
driving them. They're not driving them just
648
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:58.000
to YouTube. And if they are, that's a problem because there's Fox and
649
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.280
NBCUniversal did not pay for you two
views. They paid for WWE two be
650
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:07.719
far in a way the top rest
of the far and away the top show
651
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.280
on cable or on broadcast on the
nights that they're running the show. They
652
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:14.360
paid big money because they want people
to watch live. That was the whole
653
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:16.920
predicate of why ww could command this
kind of TV deal. It seems like
654
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:22.519
WWE is doing a bad job at
the business that they're actually in that has
655
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:27.679
led to their stock price doubling.
If people are leaving the very medium that's
656
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:30.960
bringing them in this record revenue,
you and I are not going to solve
657
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:36.079
this right like the like, the
best way for me to say it is
658
00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:38.519
is like it's working for them,
and I don't like to what I don't
659
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:44.000
folk. It's trying to fix a
ship that's sailing perfectly, and I understand
660
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:46.800
that you could sail in a different
way, but for for them it works.
661
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:51.480
And by the way, Vince's announcing
a football league in towns and all
662
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.239
this stuff. He he don't worried
about me, you know what I mean?
663
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:58.559
Like, And my point is is, like I don't. I don't
664
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.159
even know. I can't even metric
if people, I mean, yes,
665
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:04.840
people are leaving. But also tell
me the last time the Nilsen ratings were
666
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:07.119
properly audited. Do you know what
I mean? Was as I mean,
667
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:10.400
here's somebody who did the Niels Yeah, I don't know. I don't,
668
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:14.800
but it's but I'm bringing it up
being that like it's it is a metric.
669
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.679
It is one of one hundred different
metrics. Now what I'm saying is
670
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.039
is their business is good. Yes, do I like it? No,
671
00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:22.960
it's not. It's not for me. But what I'm saying is there's plenty
672
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.199
of products. If, for example, there are other products that I think
673
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.440
you would say are better. Right, do they have they figured their business
674
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:35.480
out to draw an audience? In
marketing and all that stuff? Nobody's got
675
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:39.119
the answer. Nobody does. And
that's my point is is all we can
676
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:42.840
do is focus on a product.
By the way, you have a product
677
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.320
you put out, and I'm sure
you look at your numbers on a weekly
678
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:46.679
basis. And I'm not gonna ask
you are you up or down? You
679
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:51.079
know? But that's the point is
is it's up to us as content creators
680
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.599
to create a product that people want
to watch. If W is not doing
681
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:58.840
it, then your business is ft, you know what I mean? Like
682
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.239
if if people went away and droves, you don't have a business. So
683
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:07.360
what I'm saying is I can't worry
about it. I guess if I had
684
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:13.199
a guaranteed two year deal with something
that was paying me x amount, that
685
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:16.000
made me very happy. But I'm
watching weekly numbers in year over year numbers
686
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:20.840
declined. I should I should not
think what I'm doing is working. What
687
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.079
I should think is financially, I'm
in good shape. But the thing that
688
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:28.280
got me here is sinking I'm doing
something wrong. I'm driving people away.
689
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:31.159
And that's where I think is I
think their live event business is in trouble.
690
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:35.199
But here's the thing. Anybody with
eyes knows why the live event business
691
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:37.199
in trouble. They're doing the same
live events that they did in nineteen eighty
692
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:42.800
five. Yeah, like that's why, Like our approach to live events is,
693
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.400
let's let's create an event that people
will be interested in singularly, let's
694
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:50.199
let's let's do one amitu at a
time, because I want to get I
695
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.960
want to get the product, right, I don't again, I don't know
696
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:55.239
how to fix their product because it
is this giant machine that you can't turn
697
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:59.400
very quickly. For example, i'll
give you, I'll give you a technology
698
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:02.880
thing and was founded in two thousand
and eight. It didn't really hit critical
699
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:07.440
mass until three years ago. Four
years ago. You know, the people
700
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:10.000
really understood and used it as an
alternative. They took their time, one
701
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:14.119
customer at a time. W B
has built all this customer base. And
702
00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:17.559
yeah, they'll they'll lose viewers,
they'll their their networks. Still they haven't
703
00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:22.079
had a large drop in their network, right. The network number has been
704
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:24.719
pretty solid, meaning it's not like, yeah, four hundred thousand viewers,
705
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:29.400
four hundred thousand paying customers have not
walked away from their network at one time,
706
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:31.519
right, correct, Yes, So
that's what I mean. Like to
707
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:36.119
me, that's that is as equal
a measure as ratings, because ratings are
708
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:37.880
people that don't pay for the product. So that's what I mean. They've
709
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:42.400
built a business that allows them to
go. Okay, Like for example,
710
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:46.119
if when if the people complained about
Roman reigns who now love them, you
711
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:50.440
know, because he's sick, you
know, like like, oh, I'm
712
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:54.119
canceling the network. Well, I
guarantee you the largest cancelation number was probably
713
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:58.360
two to five thousand on any one
day. I guarantee there was not one
714
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.639
hundred thousand. If if half of
those people would have canceled the day he
715
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.199
won the title, then they go, Okay, something has to change.
716
00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:08.159
We're losing that amount of revenue.
So I bring it all up because you
717
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:13.599
have to go upon the metric you
have and figure out what business works.
718
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:16.199
So that's the difference. Yeah,
I would say if they're down from a
719
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:20.360
two point oh way to one point
six to one over two years week week
720
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.119
over you know, same week two
years ago, that's fewer people who are
721
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:29.920
engaged enough to replace are who are
part of the replacement churn that's inevitable with
722
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.400
the network. And when we talk
about the network, you know, being
723
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:35.360
rock solid, there's big churn.
There's a lot of people who leave and
724
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:37.719
a lot of people who come back, and they do it seasonally, or
725
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:38.599
they do it because of the moods, or they do it because they saw
726
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:43.000
something on YouTube. Or heard something
from a friend. But when you don't,
727
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.480
when you have that many fewer people
watching the free product, I think
728
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:51.119
it is an ominous Bellweather sign that
it's going to be difficult to grow or
729
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:57.079
even more And it's by definition going
to be more difficult to replace the people
730
00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:59.599
who are dropping off, which is
just part of any I mean, go
731
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:01.000
back to me see subscriptions in the
sixties. You have people who drop off,
732
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:04.119
You got to find a way to
replace them. That's always been the
733
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.480
model. That's where to me,
if I'm vinced, I think the the
734
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:15.039
canary in the coal mine is still
free cable viewership because the numbers domestically are
735
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:21.400
big, and that's the most substantial
indicator of people being interested in your more
736
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.159
or less interested in your product than
one or two years ago. And I
737
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:29.880
don't know his philosophy or why he
does it. I don't. Again,
738
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.960
I haven't sat in the room with
the man for ten years. But it's
739
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.280
interesting when you think about, oh, this free show is terrible, but
740
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:38.440
the stuff on the network's good.
You know? Is he genuinely driving people
741
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:45.599
to spend money on it? And
again he's doing okay, I'm not worried
742
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.519
about him going hungry today, and
I'm worried about fans more. I mean,
743
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.639
I'm worried about the product that we
are watching today more than Vincent man
744
00:50:52.840 --> 00:51:00.400
keeping score with other billionaires. The
best way, if you don't like something,
745
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.800
don't pay attention to it. If
it angers you, if it's like
746
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:07.440
a relationship, if it's a person, get rid of it. And I'm
747
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:08.880
not telling people to stop watching w
B. But if you, if you
748
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:13.480
genuinely and understand your job like I
don't, I don't enjoy it. I
749
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:15.800
will come in and check it.
If I hear there's a good segment,
750
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:19.920
I'll pull it up on YouTube.
They're not getting three hours of my time.
751
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:22.480
Why because it doesn't fit in how
I live my life now. If
752
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:24.800
I have if I don't have the
Internet, or I don't have this,
753
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:29.920
it may fit in there. And
I think that's the that's the that's the
754
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.639
thing that every content provider, like, like, think about this. For
755
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:37.400
everyone who hates raw, how many
how many podcasts review it on a daily
756
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:40.199
a weekly basis one and one thank
you for listening, everybody, No,
757
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.679
go ahead, And that's what I
mean, like h and it's just like
758
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:49.239
as long as you give them attention. They will always be amplified. I'm
759
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:51.960
begging for attention, you know what
I mean. That's why I create content.
760
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:53.280
No, absolutely, you brought you
brought up the Eagles. I'll bring
761
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.400
up my my Timberwolves, who are
doing well since the Jimmy Butler trade.
762
00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:04.079
But before the Jimmy Butler trade is
seventy six or in Philadelphia, the fans
763
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.360
went through different stages. And I
was in the crowd and on the home
764
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.280
opener this year when Jimmy Butler's introduced
and he was booed, and you know,
765
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.880
he smiled to charge it off.
Then he got a pass in the
766
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:17.719
crowd boot him, and then he
shot the ball and the crowd boot him,
767
00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:22.719
and the and the attendance was good
that first night, and then and
768
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:25.960
then there were fewer boos because there
were fewer people in the seats as the
769
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.679
weeks progressed. So to me,
there's the stage as a fan with w
770
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:32.920
W. There's the time when fans
are complaining and that's when you need to
771
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:37.960
listen and change. And then there's
the stage where the fans have stopped paying
772
00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:39.800
attention and did what you just said, They just stopped paying attention. They
773
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.800
leave and that's when it might be
too late to turn things around. We
774
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:47.800
certainly saw that with WCW twenty years
ago. So that's where So but let
775
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:52.599
me shift the discussion to this Triple
H. You got physic man stelling out
776
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:55.440
stock, you have him announcing a
football league, and you have NXP doing
777
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:05.159
I think a great job with with
this third brand within WWE's ecosystem. I
778
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:08.519
think doing things a lot of things
right. And that's subjective, but it's
779
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:12.639
me saying it, so it's it's
inherently subjective. I'm but I think NXT
780
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:15.199
is doing a lot of things right
with the way that they produced the product.
781
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:22.039
What do you think is the chain
of command right now and the chance
782
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:29.199
that Triple H ends up sooner than
later becoming drastically more influential on the Rossmackdown,
783
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:36.400
Maine, Fox, NBC universal product. I think that I wish I
784
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:39.079
knew, because I could, I
could sell the secrets to all the people
785
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:44.039
that would know. But I don't
know. But I'm I'm smart enough to
786
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:47.440
know that that he is. He
looks at every entity that's drawing attention and
787
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:52.079
has signed them, and you know
he's building out. I mean, you
788
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:57.320
just look at the drastic change in
the UK business since they made those alignments
789
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:00.840
three years ago, the twenty sixteen
when that they made the progress and ICW
790
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:06.760
deals and you know, they have
figured out what they want to do.
791
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.880
And I think it's by the way, they should franchise the company and by
792
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:15.679
the way, there should be more
than one person in charge of a vision,
793
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:17.840
you know what I mean? And
I know nothing about Like they hired
794
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:22.920
JD and Jimmy from Impact. I
mean, they literally hired everyone from Impact
795
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:28.119
in twenty sixteen except Matt Conway abyss
Grade. Oh and uh, that's it.
796
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.639
They literally hired everyone from the company
that everyone used to hate and make
797
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:37.199
fun of. And now it's basically
the entire WWNXT system because they just they
798
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.239
understand that this is where go back
to the business discussion. The business and
799
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:45.800
creator are two separate businesses. And
now I enjoy NXT when I watch it.
800
00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:47.559
And by the way, I never
watched their weekly TV, but I'll
801
00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:52.639
watch every one of their specials.
So you know, you could say,
802
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:54.360
like, oh, their TV doesn't
engage me, It doesn't, it doesn't
803
00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:58.320
speak to me. But I enjoy
the hell out of their specials and that's
804
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:00.199
I think that's where the business is
going, if where life's going. How
805
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:05.440
often has people predicted that pay per
view was dead? Right, It's been
806
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.400
dead since two thousand and one,
two thousand and two, You know what
807
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:12.119
I mean, Like, if you
create something people want to watch, people
808
00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:15.760
will pay to see it. People
still go to movies, just they just
809
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:19.880
watch it differently. So what he's
doing is creating on a different brand.
810
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:23.719
I think it's shifted as far as
you know the NXT now that is compared
811
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:28.480
to three years ago at the first
Barclay show. I think it's just different.
812
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:30.440
It's not the same. It doesn't
have the same coolness that it had
813
00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:35.119
three years ago. But you could
also argue that's because the people that were
814
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:37.559
stars in the first round of NXT
have been made to not be stars on
815
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:42.679
the main roster. You can literally
count every person that was a star in
816
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.480
n XT, and their lack of
ascent in the w universe has hurt the
817
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:50.639
overall long term value of the NXC
brand. Yeah, you know what I
818
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:53.840
mean, Like you stop caring like, oh this, Hey, the last
819
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:57.719
ten guys would come up have not
made it, So why should I believe
820
00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.440
in the eleventh guy? You know
what I mean, so it just happens,
821
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:05.480
and I don't know the answer why
or what it is, but you
822
00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:08.760
know it's I think they've done a
very good job in building talent. I
823
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:12.519
think, you know, I think
they obviously look at their live events and
824
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:15.840
they I think they wanted to scale
bigger than they did, and I think
825
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.280
they don't draw as well they did
the first two years, and I think
826
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:23.079
that's their live event business, like
w's, needs to shift to the people
827
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:27.880
in Boser City need to know that
the show in Boser City matters on Boser
828
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:30.440
City because eventually it's just like,
Okay, I'll go, I'll go once
829
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:34.480
a year, like the circus.
Yeah, yeah, that is where they
830
00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:44.840
are. Every Sunday night, catch
Wrestling Night in America on PW Torchdailycast dot
831
00:56:44.920 --> 00:56:47.840
Com, hosted by me PW Torch
calumnist Greg Parks. Each week, I'll
832
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:51.800
welcome a co host from the Torch
family to discuss the big shows in pro
833
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:54.719
wrestling, taking your calls and emails, You can listen live most week's beginning
834
00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:59.760
at eight pm Eastern on Sunday nights
with a WWE or Impact pay per view
835
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:01.679
go on the air at the conclusion
of that pay per view. You can
836
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:05.960
listen live, but of course the
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837
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:09.400
anytime shortly after it airs. Visit
PW torchdailycast dot com and click the live
838
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:14.000
stream link to find the next scheduled
live show link. Search PW torch and
839
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:17.440
Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to
subscribe Wrestling Night in America every Sunday,
840
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:35.239
PW Torchdailycast dot com. You mentioned, and I think I mentioned too,
841
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:42.679
the signing of top the top talent
in Europe to restrictive deals that could limit
842
00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:49.519
the growth or the profitability of indie
wrestling groups that had been leaning on some
843
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:55.199
of these top names. What is
this predatory? Is it absolutely fair game?
844
00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:59.000
Is it healthy because some of these
guys are making more money even though
845
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.480
they're wrestling lesson now freeze up a
new generation of younger guys to make a
846
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:05.599
name for themselves and the spots that
are opening up. What how do you
847
00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:12.360
frame what's happening here? It's free
market, like I love like I'm under
848
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:15.719
a deal with with with Billy here
and I'm not on the market. If
849
00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:19.039
you're on the market, you know
you have to make a decision. Everyone
850
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:21.679
who signed those deals, I don't
believe any of them were signed at gunpoint,
851
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:24.760
Like I think everybody that signed those
deals looked at the market and go,
852
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:30.519
well, I know what I made
last year and this contract is they're
853
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:34.719
no one's signing for less. I'll
just say that much and look at the
854
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.840
marketplace. And by the way,
the UK numbers show which way the business
855
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:43.760
is going, like like the ICW
ran the Hydro for the third time,
856
00:58:43.880 --> 00:58:46.400
right, and it was it was
drastic less than the first correct. The
857
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:51.360
business has shanged. So these talents
have to make a decision what's best for
858
00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:53.639
them, And you face a choice
of talent. Do I take the deal
859
00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:57.000
in front of me or do I
jump into the unknown like a lot of
860
00:58:57.079 --> 00:59:00.920
talents have in the last two years
and create for myself. So I don't
861
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:02.800
think it's predatory at all. I
think it's it's free market. You know.
862
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:07.400
We face a decision every time we
make a talent deal, is it
863
00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:09.519
what's it worth? How many dates? What's it worth? And then we
864
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:14.760
talk to them about the opportunity that
comes with it. So Vince McMahon told
865
00:59:14.840 --> 00:59:19.039
me that it was predatory of Ted
Turner to put Nitro on Monday Night's opposite
866
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:23.639
a raw. It was also free
market. Can it not be both or
867
00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:28.280
do you think just by definition that's
contradictory. I think it's contradictory. By
868
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:30.159
the way, did you see the
Burger King social media ad? Literally,
869
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:34.440
if you if you open the Burger
King app and and and I think it's
870
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.280
like a geo targeted thing, and
you literally go and order a whopper.
871
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:39.400
Basically, it's a gimmick. You
go to the Burger King and you or
872
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:44.000
you go to McDonald's and you open
the app like a check in at McDonald's,
873
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.519
you can get a whopper for a
penny. It's it's all about attention,
874
00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:52.119
and it's free market. This is
we're in the wild West, and
875
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.199
you know, whatever they want to
do, as long as they don't break
876
00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:57.719
contracts, do you know what I
mean? As long as as long as
877
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.920
somebody is not paying somebody to do
services while they're under contract to another company.
878
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:07.840
It's freaking So when when when you
see what's happening, do you think,
879
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:09.440
ah, this is good for any
wrestling It's you make the case,
880
01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:13.360
hey it's free market and I get
in that category. Okay, yeah,
881
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:15.159
pre market. It's it's the wrestlers
are making a decision they're not at gunpoint.
882
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:20.000
Why does it shake up the indie
scene though? How does it are?
883
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:24.199
Is there a ripple effect that's good
or bad or unknown? I think
884
01:00:24.199 --> 01:00:30.159
it's unknown because it's up to the
individual proprietors of those companies, meaning they
885
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:32.719
have to understand, like, I
know what our business is and and everybody's
886
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:37.360
got an opinion on my business,
but I know at least the path of
887
01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:40.719
building our business and building a base
that's engaged in our brand. And by
888
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:44.519
the way, this is why WWE
has always put brand in front of talent,
889
01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:49.360
because ultimately brand is what matters the
most. And Billy's talking about that
890
01:00:49.480 --> 01:00:52.880
not only with his music career,
but wrestling and everything. Why is this?
891
01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:55.880
Why is Kim Kardashian selling clothes?
I guarantee you it's not as good
892
01:00:55.920 --> 01:01:00.199
amount of clothes as name another closed
company, but she's selling it on brand.
893
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:06.159
So for these indie companies, if
Walter was the centerpiece of your business,
894
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:09.400
did you pay Walter the value of
his centerpiece of your business? And
895
01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:14.039
I don't know Walter or anyone's business. You put the money and effort into
896
01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:17.840
what's selling. And if Walter was
the centerpiece of any of these individual indie
897
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:22.880
companies, he would be compensated as
such. And I don't know any part
898
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:25.639
of these deals, but I'm just
saying, like, we have a commitment
899
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:29.039
to Nick all this, but our
brand is built not only around Nick all
900
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:31.440
This, but what he's doing to
build our brand in our championship is a
901
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:36.679
very synergistic relationship. And we made
a commitment to him to get him off
902
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:43.000
the market for X number of years
to do exactly that. What is this
903
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:45.679
the like, I'm trying to think, God, what do you think the
904
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:51.840
trajectory is for the all Elite or
the Elite wrestling cast, the crew,
905
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:55.719
Cody and the Bucks and Hangman Page
all part of that special weekend at all
906
01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:01.800
In And And how important was all
In in twenty eighteen now that we're a
907
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:07.119
couple months passed it, actually about
three months past it now, when we
908
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:14.039
look at what all In meant to
twenty eighteen and going into twenty nineteen,
909
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:17.679
how does it look now compared to
the night in the weekend when it was
910
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:23.039
taking place. I think the business
lessons of All In a lot took to
911
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:27.199
heart and understood why it worked,
and I think a lot have used it
912
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:32.039
as leverage for the changing market.
I think looking back, it showed that
913
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:37.840
a section of fans are willing to
travel by the way they travel yearly for
914
01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:43.960
Summer Slam WrestleMania, and you know, it was definitely a section. But
915
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:47.559
I would say that those people that
went to All In they were not exclusively
916
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:51.760
just All In fans, meaning they
were WW fans. They're people who go
917
01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.960
to WrestleMania. There are people that
travel to other independent shows. It wasn't
918
01:02:55.039 --> 01:02:59.840
like they had They weren't lapsed fans
who had never watched wrestling in ten years.
919
01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.800
And this is what drawn back.
They were people that felt engaged to
920
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:06.920
this. These guys and this idea
and the idea sold. No matches sold
921
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.920
tickets, you know what I mean? Not that the idea sold, the
922
01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:15.400
idea and the work that those guys
put in sold the tickets. Uh,
923
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:22.320
you know, we sold would matches. You know track record with these guys
924
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:27.199
that these will be good matches.
Yes, And what was what was the
925
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.480
biggest story point? What was the
moment that a lot of people remember coming
926
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:31.480
out of that show. We worked
really hard to make sure that the n
927
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:37.159
w A moment was was good for
everybody, and not only in leading into
928
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.440
it. We didn't. We didn't
just announce the match and go okay,
929
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.159
we're good, you know what I
mean, Like, we didn't do that.
930
01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:45.840
We made we put a lot way
more time and effort into it than
931
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:50.119
a lot of people do into literally
one match. And we put a lot
932
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:52.199
of time and effort coming out to
make sure that even if you didn't see
933
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:57.159
it, it felt important when everything
like it still dealt with reverence, like
934
01:03:57.440 --> 01:04:00.320
like, to me, the the
posities of that event, it was great
935
01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:03.719
moment. I feel like it wasn't
celebrated after. I feel like it was.
936
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:08.280
It happened, we did like it
was like it was okay, cool
937
01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:11.599
and waiting around for the next one, and I think the how the second
938
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:15.159
one sells and the third one will
tell you how well it did, And
939
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:18.840
I think, I think, I
think that the market will decide, Well,
940
01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:23.880
what do you think is the direction
of of all elite wrestling? They
941
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:28.679
have some trademarks you mentioned half hour
or so ago. You know, waiting
942
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:32.280
around for that big TV deal may
or may not be the right strategy.
943
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.360
You don't want to miss. You
put all your chips on that, But
944
01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:41.039
what what what's your what does your
intelligence tell you? In both both senses
945
01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:43.519
of the word you're, you're,
you're instinct in your gut, but also
946
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:46.800
what you're hearing on the street about
where Cody and the Bucks end up in
947
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:54.400
what the potential is for their brand
of wrestling in this marketplace to to have
948
01:04:55.159 --> 01:04:59.000
to land somewhere where it actually it's
not driving WW at a business. It's
949
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:01.280
not the New Monday nitrope by Ted
Turner, but it's something more than what
950
01:05:01.559 --> 01:05:05.320
RH has. The water level that
r H has reached. It ends up
951
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:12.039
maybe being closer to what impact was
at one point when people looked at them
952
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:17.000
as potentially a solid strong number two. I think the market decides I know
953
01:05:17.119 --> 01:05:23.039
nothing about what they're doing. No
discussions were not involved. I think they
954
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:26.880
have done a very good job getting
people very interested in it. And now
955
01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:30.039
it comes to day one, what
do they do? And then day two
956
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:32.800
and day three and day four and
day five. Yeah, meaning that these
957
01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:36.719
guys have to the thing that you
know and Ring of Honor has a very
958
01:05:36.800 --> 01:05:41.840
strong infrastructure. You may disagree with
their creative goes back to the w discussion.
959
01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:48.239
You don't understand not you again,
people don't understand the amount of decisions
960
01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:53.679
that make get made on a daily
basis just on travel, you know what
961
01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:58.119
I mean. There are hundreds to
thousands of decisions that get made when you're
962
01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:01.320
literally doing one show, let alone
launch a promotion, that have to be
963
01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:05.480
made, and you have to understand
it. If you haven't made those decisions
964
01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:09.239
in the past, you can make
mistakes. I made a lot of mistakes
965
01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:12.760
at seven the show that we've learned
from and adjust. You just have to
966
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:15.440
execute every day. So I don't
know what their plan is. I hope
967
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:21.199
they have a really strong business focused, profit focused, expense focused idea as
968
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:24.840
opposed to well, we're just gonna
get big, real fast and spend a
969
01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:28.000
lot of money. Give yourself a
reason to look forward to going to the
970
01:06:28.039 --> 01:06:32.880
mailbox each week with a PW Torch
newsletter paper copy. Subscription details at PW
971
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:36.840
torch dot com slash paper copy.
It's twelve pages every week, packed with
972
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:41.679
my TV reports, along with exclusive
features such as my cover story on the
973
01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:45.320
top story of the week, our
pay per view roundtable reviews from the Torch
974
01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:49.239
staff, exclusive feature length columns from
Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin,
975
01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:54.800
Alan Coonahan, and Zach Haydorn,
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976
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:59.800
and more. Pw Torch dot Com
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977
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:03.719
screen time and settle in every week
with a megadosa wrestling news and analysis with
978
01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:09.239
a Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy
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979
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.559
You can get a full year of
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980
01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:18.320
or try us for an eight week
trial subscription PW toorch dot com slash paper
981
01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:30.320
copy. Do you think from what
what you've observed with Cody and that crew
982
01:07:31.079 --> 01:07:38.199
in what they're doing, that ROH
should and does see them as a threat
983
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:41.920
to what they have established and all
the decisions that they've made to get to
984
01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:46.480
where they are or not it to
me, is there Root? You know,
985
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:49.360
it's like the old what there's not
room for both of us in this
986
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:53.360
town? Is there room for Roh
and what all of the wrestling is trying
987
01:07:53.400 --> 01:07:58.719
to do in terms of the fan
bases that the commonalities and overlap perhaps in
988
01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:01.159
what's appealing about the pro to a
certain type of fan of a certain demographic.
989
01:08:01.880 --> 01:08:03.480
Yeah, I mean I think there
is. I mean, unless they're
990
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:09.239
literally running the same exact product.
You know that the elite guys have run
991
01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:13.519
one show. They run a weekly
YouTube show you know until you know,
992
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:15.920
until you see sort of them with
their wings out, and a lot of
993
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:18.000
people ask the same thing, like
like, what are you guys going to
994
01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:21.800
be? The market decides if it
works. And that's what I mean about
995
01:08:23.319 --> 01:08:28.960
understanding what you're spending versus what you're
getting. It's finding all of these ideas
996
01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:31.359
and putting it together. I don't
know if everybody's worded or not. We
997
01:08:31.479 --> 01:08:34.840
haven't had the discussion. My discussion
with them is is what do you want
998
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:36.800
to execute? What do we need
to get done today? What do we
999
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:40.800
need to get done tomorrow? What's
you know you can't? This is what
1000
01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:44.600
you can't worry about other people.
The more time you spend on somebody else,
1001
01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:47.680
the less time you're spending on your
business. And you know, we've
1002
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:51.039
spent I don't even know how much
time talking about other people's businesses today instead
1003
01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:54.319
of mine, which I'm fine with. I'm happy to discuss it that.
1004
01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:57.159
I literally, this is probably the
most time and effort I put into anybody
1005
01:08:57.199 --> 01:09:00.039
else's business in probably a year.
I don't worry about it because it's their
1006
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:04.079
problem. I don't have to worry
about ra's ratings. How would I fix
1007
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:08.560
it. I don't know. I'd
find out what the I wonder if people
1008
01:09:08.560 --> 01:09:11.399
ever go what does the audience actually
want? And you talk to them?
1009
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:13.800
I always joke, Hey, my
dms are open. I talk to a
1010
01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:15.680
lot of people. I listen to
a lot of people, and they tell
1011
01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:18.760
me what they want. Most of
them want the Italian Missouri middleweight tag team
1012
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:23.000
titles. But you know those people, actually, I don't think actually exist,
1013
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:27.079
and I think it's a robot who's
screwing with me. But like I
1014
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:30.319
think, knowing what your audience and
your audience is exactly it's this amalgamation my
1015
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:34.039
favorite one. Somebody goes, everyone
thinks this sucks? Okay, have you
1016
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:39.359
spoke to everyone literally everyone? Or
you in hyperbole? Lin if you don't
1017
01:09:39.439 --> 01:09:42.920
like something that cool? Like for
me, I put all of our energy
1018
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.359
into what it's there. So I
don't know what they're going to do.
1019
01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:49.479
I don't worry about it. On
the larger landscape of professional wrestling as we
1020
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:53.640
as we look even ahead five years, and I think when you're in the
1021
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.920
business and when you're active in the
wrestling industry as you are, and you're
1022
01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:03.000
not in your part of you've been
part of the established media and mediums.
1023
01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:09.199
But you're also obviously immersed right now
in in the uh, the the newer
1024
01:10:09.439 --> 01:10:13.760
media that's gonna the YouTube especially,
it's gonna be attractive to the younger demographic.
1025
01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:17.279
Is wrestling destined to kind of have
the industry two paths, one that
1026
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:24.000
you're on where there's a distribution model
that is more niche and and and I
1027
01:10:24.039 --> 01:10:27.239
don't mean niche in any kind of
derogatory way, it's it's what the kids,
1028
01:10:27.560 --> 01:10:30.159
you know, literally the kids today. Uh, there are kids becoming
1029
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:34.159
famous because of niches on a large
on a large scale. But does it
1030
01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:40.159
get segmented and niche afied to the
point that there's all these different products where
1031
01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:43.920
they're all making they're making money,
they're reaching, they're reaching people. And
1032
01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:50.239
there's wrestlers and promoters and video editors
making a living off of brands that somebody
1033
01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:57.319
else might not even know exist,
who's watching another brand three doors down on
1034
01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:00.840
the same block because it's so segmented. Meanwhile, there's still one dominant brand
1035
01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:05.279
because I don't know, you know, we make television analogies, we make
1036
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:10.720
NFL analogies. Pro wrestling is still
unique in the sense that I think people
1037
01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:14.000
are willing to watch. It's probably
more like TV in the sense that you're
1038
01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:16.800
willing to watch a product that appeals
to you, regardless of if you're watching,
1039
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:21.199
quote, the best players in that
given sport, Like in the NFL,
1040
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:25.520
We're gonna find out with the XFL
if fans are willing to watch a
1041
01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:30.199
lot of players playing games where they
know, by definition they're not good enough
1042
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:33.760
to sit on the bench in the
NFL or be on the practice squad.
1043
01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:36.439
In ninety eight percent of the case, there's gonna be us. You know,
1044
01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:42.920
you know who is a Saint Louis
Ram quarterback Warner. There's gonna be
1045
01:11:43.039 --> 01:11:45.640
a Warner now in that. But
so yeah, talk about yeah that.
1046
01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:48.960
Where where do you think the trajectory
is five years from now? In the
1047
01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:56.840
way that wrestlers make their living and
promoters and video editors target audiences, I
1048
01:11:56.960 --> 01:12:02.079
think you have to be adjustable to
where audience's attention. The fact that you
1049
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:04.359
and I could sit here and draw
a T shirt and put it on sale
1050
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:10.520
and sell it and ship it tomorrow
shows a completely vastly different marketplace than existed
1051
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.159
two fives and twenty years ago.
The fact that you and I can make
1052
01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:17.000
You'll have a wrestling match somewhere and
shoot it, broadcast it live, and
1053
01:12:17.119 --> 01:12:20.800
if we want to charge somebody,
do it without having to have anything shows.
1054
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:27.079
The opportunity exists. If you're a
talent in twenty eighteen and your entire
1055
01:12:27.199 --> 01:12:30.680
marketing strategy is one hundred and forty
to two hundred and eighty characters, you're
1056
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:33.800
doing it wrong. They're like to
your point, there are kids who were
1057
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:38.119
famous who are doing it better than
you. They learned how to shoot.
1058
01:12:38.199 --> 01:12:41.079
I put a tweet out the other
day. By the way, you learned
1059
01:12:41.079 --> 01:12:45.920
how to fall down and have an
epic pro wrestling match. Shooting and editing
1060
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:48.119
is easy compared to it. If
you don't want to learn it, that's
1061
01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:51.039
fine. You'll get passed by by
the young bucks. And by the way,
1062
01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:56.039
Dalton Castle has a tremendously entertaining YouTube
show that nobody watches. It makes
1063
01:12:56.079 --> 01:12:59.760
me laugh every time I watch it
because he's a dynamic person. You can
1064
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.479
engage in audience at any time,
anywhere, and eventually they will pay to
1065
01:13:03.560 --> 01:13:06.920
come see you. That was the
success of all In. It wasn't the
1066
01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:12.319
great matches. It was that people
cared about these group of guys and wanted
1067
01:13:12.359 --> 01:13:15.920
to support them. I'm blown away
by the people that support us, the
1068
01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:19.720
fact that literally we had we had
a large travel people that traveled in for
1069
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:25.119
our first show, which you could
argue the matches weren't as star quality,
1070
01:13:25.199 --> 01:13:28.800
were laidens as all in, but
we still had people who cared and they
1071
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:30.359
were engaged. They cheered, they
bowed. It was not a Monday night
1072
01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:34.680
rack crap sat there waiting to be
entertained. So like for me, if
1073
01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:39.680
you the landscape change is based upon
how you engage your audience. If you
1074
01:13:39.880 --> 01:13:44.479
just make content to make money,
you're missing the understanding of what's really going
1075
01:13:44.520 --> 01:13:47.359
on. That's how you succeed in
a when you're smaller than we You have
1076
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:50.960
to make them feel something, which
goes back to our exact discussion on Dynamite
1077
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:54.680
Kid, how this whole thing started. If you're not feeling something, then
1078
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:58.560
why put my time, energy and
then our money into it. Why is
1079
01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:00.840
nobody watching Dalton Castle YouTube videos?
As you put it, Why is it?
1080
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:04.119
Why is it a few thousand?
Yeah, I don't know. I
1081
01:14:04.159 --> 01:14:08.159
think I think it's there's a lot
of things. I want to help him
1082
01:14:08.199 --> 01:14:12.600
because it's as it is, and
maybe the format is not right, but
1083
01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:15.159
I find him as an entertaining character. And by the way, or a
1084
01:14:15.159 --> 01:14:18.239
lot like Kevin Steen had a YouTube
show twenty eleven twenty twelve. It's not
1085
01:14:18.319 --> 01:14:21.640
like the Young Bucks figured out some
secret hidden formula and there was a mat
1086
01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:27.079
that they found, like fucking Sean
Mooney's pants on whatever that show. I
1087
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:30.039
just watched The Edge and Christian show, like there's a roadmap if you want
1088
01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:33.920
to learn how to engage an audience. And guess what I learned in every
1089
01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:38.560
episode of ten Pounds what people like
and what they don't like is I read
1090
01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:41.960
every comment like, Okay, people
are not responding to that. It's the
1091
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.399
people that go, no, it's
my way or the highway, and they're
1092
01:14:44.439 --> 01:14:45.680
going to force it down their throat. No, you have to adjust on
1093
01:14:45.760 --> 01:14:50.560
what the audience wants. What surprised
you most about the feedback since he started
1094
01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:55.960
doing ten pounds a goal, it's
it's it's it's literally these people that who
1095
01:14:56.119 --> 01:14:59.840
genuinely seem to have not watched wrestling
in twenty years that found it based upon
1096
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:03.720
something like it's it's really unique that
the people that speak up about what they
1097
01:15:03.760 --> 01:15:08.399
do and don't like, and and
it shows there are various niches. There
1098
01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:10.640
are people that love what the young
books do. There are people that love
1099
01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:15.680
WWE like, like, we just
had a twenty minute discussion about W's driving
1100
01:15:15.720 --> 01:15:19.359
off their audience, and yet there
are people passionately talking about why they love
1101
01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:24.159
this. Sasha Banks entering QNA session, do you know what I mean?
1102
01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:28.079
Like, there are vastly different audiences
that like vastly different things, and while
1103
01:15:28.119 --> 01:15:30.560
it may not appeal to you or
that guy, it might appeal to somebody,
1104
01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:34.960
and ultimately the market decides. So
that what I've learned is is that
1105
01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:40.319
you have EBB and flows and there's
there's there's life and lessons that you learn.
1106
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:45.159
Yeah, yeah, very good.
How can people find what? Let
1107
01:15:45.199 --> 01:15:49.199
me ask this, point people to
what you want them to see online to
1108
01:15:49.239 --> 01:15:53.239
get an example of the work that
you're most proud of right now. So
1109
01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:57.560
if you haven't watched the ROH Pinnacle
episodes, they're on the ROH YouTube channel,
1110
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:01.359
just search the Pinnacle And then if
you haven't watched ten Pounds of Goal,
1111
01:16:01.479 --> 01:16:04.239
the good part is there are forty
three of them, if not forty
1112
01:16:04.279 --> 01:16:08.479
two, I maybe have misnumbered somewhere
all on the line and I haven't figured
1113
01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:11.279
that out yet. Please help me
Internet, because you're very good at pointing
1114
01:16:11.359 --> 01:16:15.199
things out, you know. There. The Ten Pounds series was literally I
1115
01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:19.319
call it a time capsule, meaning
like when we look back ten years from
1116
01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:25.199
now what this NWA was. There
is literally a documentary being made at the
1117
01:16:25.239 --> 01:16:29.039
same time as we do it.
And you know the fact that Harley Race
1118
01:16:29.119 --> 01:16:32.479
and Nick all this cross paths for
the first time in ten fifteen years,
1119
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:38.119
you know, after Nick went to
travel too learned from him that exists now
1120
01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:40.880
and will exist forever in our time. Like basically this is a timeline.
1121
01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:44.760
So like, like, that's what
I like about Ten Pounds, where if
1122
01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:48.359
you've not watched one episode, you
can go start at one or twenty one
1123
01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:51.960
and feel like you had it missed
anything, or at least feel part of
1124
01:16:53.039 --> 01:16:56.760
the story. And it's just it's
I don't have two hours a week with
1125
01:16:56.840 --> 01:17:00.479
TV. But it would also be
Can you imagine if every independent wrestling company
1126
01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:03.000
had two hours of TV? It
would be like, it's just it's undaunting,
1127
01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:08.199
That's what I'm saying. The market
decides if people's time and effort are
1128
01:17:08.199 --> 01:17:10.439
worth it. Yeah, yeah,
very good. Well, Dave, it
1129
01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:13.960
was great catching up with you once
again. Today, I encourage people to
1130
01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:18.159
check out your work because I very
much admire your video editing skills and the
1131
01:17:18.199 --> 01:17:24.680
way that you tell stories. I
think there's a vibe that you get watching
1132
01:17:25.319 --> 01:17:30.039
your videos that I don't see produced
on other produced videos on YouTube. I
1133
01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:33.319
think you just do a fantastic job. And I've asked you questions not just
1134
01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:36.840
about what you're doing, about about
the larger landscape of wrestling, because I
1135
01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:41.800
know all the places you've been and
all the lessons you've learned in the insights
1136
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.640
that you have, and so I
very much appreciate what you're saying. There's
1137
01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:49.079
a lot of people immersed in wrestling
in different ways, and you've been so
1138
01:17:49.159 --> 01:17:56.520
many different places and are right now
involved in an aspect of wrestling that has
1139
01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:59.800
always been there, which is building
characters and telling stories. But you're doing
1140
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:06.520
it with some freedom and flexibility in
today's environment, with today's technology and distribution,
1141
01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:11.319
that I think nobody else can can
speak to like you. Ken Well,
1142
01:18:11.439 --> 01:18:14.000
Mike, you wade to appreciate it
absolutely. Thanks An, We'll talk
1143
01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:28.439
to you hopefully down the line.
A little bit longing for some nostalgia or
1144
01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:32.079
maybe you want to learn some wrestling
history, don't miss the Nineties Past cast.
1145
01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:36.399
Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily
Cast Feed. Alex and Patrick will
1146
01:18:36.439 --> 01:18:42.159
transport you thirty years into the past
by taking you through the Torch issue from
1147
01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:46.079
that very week. Follow news from
the WWF and WCW and all the happenings
1148
01:18:46.119 --> 01:18:50.640
from across the wrestling industry in real
time as The Torch reported it thirty years
1149
01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:56.479
ago. That's the Nineties Past Cast
every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast
1150
01:18:56.560 --> 01:19:16.199
Feed. For Saturday, December eighth, twenty eighteen, you're listening to the
1151
01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:19.840
PW Towards Live cast, and when
it's Saturday, you are listening to the
1152
01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:24.920
Deep Dive with rich Fan. I
am, of course rich Fan. I
1153
01:19:25.039 --> 01:19:30.000
apologize for the delayed. Technical difficulties
and forces outside of my control allowed us
1154
01:19:30.119 --> 01:19:33.079
to be a little bit delayed,
but we're still gonna have the same fun.
1155
01:19:33.640 --> 01:19:36.520
Over the next hour, we're gonna
be chatting with one of my favorite
1156
01:19:36.520 --> 01:19:39.560
people here at the Towards, Zach
Hey Dort, and we're gonna be talking
1157
01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:42.479
about wrestling entrances, how they affect
you, which you like, what you
1158
01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:45.319
don't like, what's too much,
what's not enough, And of course we
1159
01:19:45.439 --> 01:19:46.600
can't start this party if we don't
do it with you. So give us
1160
01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:49.600
a call area go five one five
six oh five nine three four five.
1161
01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:54.680
That's five one five, six oh
five nine three four five. So,
1162
01:19:55.720 --> 01:20:00.359
as I mentioned, thank you all
for allowing for this earlier time slot,
1163
01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:03.920
we moved back an hour. Part
forces out of my control, part keeping
1164
01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:09.039
my wife happy with endeavors outside of
the PW tors community, which I'm sure
1165
01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:13.359
some of you are more than happy
to understand. This week, I think
1166
01:20:13.600 --> 01:20:19.039
Daniel Brian's the new Daniel Brian.
I'm sorry. Machinations were very, very
1167
01:20:19.239 --> 01:20:21.920
very good, and I think it'll
tie into what Zach and I are going
1168
01:20:21.960 --> 01:20:27.399
to be talking about, because he's
obviously a person that pays attention to who
1169
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:30.960
and what he brings to the table
in every iteration of himself, and so
1170
01:20:31.199 --> 01:20:35.560
I'm looking forward to seeing what this
does. Now. The one thing from
1171
01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:41.600
an entrance standpoint, I'd like to
see is maybe moving away from his current
1172
01:20:41.680 --> 01:20:45.239
theme and into something a little either
darker or a little, i don't know,
1173
01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:51.600
a little bit more fun is what
you get with the yes chance and
1174
01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:56.680
the no chance and all that when
you hear his theme currently, I would
1175
01:20:56.760 --> 01:20:59.399
want it to be something where it's
kind of like Tamaso Champa where you don't
1176
01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:05.680
even have any quarter, you don't
have the ability to give them anything other
1177
01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:12.880
than derision and hate and scoring and
all that fun stuff. So ah,
1178
01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:15.399
yes, thank you for let me
see that right here. So without further
1179
01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:18.640
ado, let me bring on my
co host for this week. He is
1180
01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:24.239
himself a PW Torch host, Zach
Aton. Welcome back to the Deep Dives
1181
01:21:24.279 --> 01:21:27.680
Act. Hey, Rich, thanks
very much for having me. Really really
1182
01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:30.680
glad to be here. Man.
So before we get start, why don't
1183
01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:32.279
you tell folks about a little bit
about what you do with the torch and
1184
01:21:32.359 --> 01:21:38.079
that'll kind of tie into why I
wanted to do Infrances with you. Okay,
1185
01:21:38.239 --> 01:21:40.039
perfect, I appreciate it. Well, yeah, I wear a couple
1186
01:21:40.079 --> 01:21:45.560
different hats at the tours these days. You can check out my Alternative Perspective
1187
01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:49.600
Monday Night Raw Report live during Monday
Night Raw on pwtorch dot Com. It's
1188
01:21:49.840 --> 01:21:55.399
up there right next to Wade Kellers
and it's just me breaking down the show,
1189
01:21:55.560 --> 01:22:00.600
so following it live as it goes
on and providing analysis on all the
1190
01:22:00.640 --> 01:22:03.600
different matches of all different segments,
and you can catch a similar report of
1191
01:22:03.680 --> 01:22:06.960
mine for two of five Live as
well, So I cover two of five
1192
01:22:08.039 --> 01:22:11.920
Live for PW tors dot com and
a similar report later in the week,
1193
01:22:12.039 --> 01:22:16.039
usually on Thursdays or Fridays, and
the same kind of thing, just breaking
1194
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:20.399
down the show, analysis on the
segments, the storylines, booking matches,
1195
01:22:20.640 --> 01:22:26.880
all there at PW torch dot com. And then on Friday afternoons, my
1196
01:22:27.439 --> 01:22:31.920
VIP audio show drops for PW Torch
VIP members and the show is called on
1197
01:22:32.039 --> 01:22:38.319
the Canvas, and what I do
on that show is pick one current event
1198
01:22:38.439 --> 01:22:43.600
from the wrestling world, whether it's
from WWE or from NXT New Japan Ring
1199
01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:48.079
of Honor, and break that current
event down from an artistic angle. So
1200
01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:53.039
whether it's a match or a promo
or a best stage vignette, you know,
1201
01:22:53.119 --> 01:22:56.760
whatever, what have you. I
kind of leave storylines at the door,
1202
01:22:56.920 --> 01:23:00.039
I leave booking decisions at the door, and just look get the arts
1203
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:04.840
in the performance of that specific segment. So the show's called on the Canvas
1204
01:23:04.960 --> 01:23:12.960
and you can check it out as
a VIP member every Friday afternoon. Outstanding
1205
01:23:13.239 --> 01:23:15.760
and the reason I picked Zach,
as you can hear especially with On the
1206
01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:19.680
Canvas, is I love the way
he takes an alteur's eye to anything in
1207
01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:25.199
wrestling. So I've done theme music
before that was our year anniversary, but
1208
01:23:25.239 --> 01:23:30.119
I wanted to do entrances entirely because
I feel like that's something depending on the
1209
01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:34.319
person that either means a lot or
you can tell how little they themselves put
1210
01:23:34.399 --> 01:23:39.359
into it. And so I thought
that'd be a really good discussion. Oh
1211
01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:44.000
no, absolutely, I think I
really think there's a lot to discuss in
1212
01:23:44.119 --> 01:23:48.159
terms of pro wrestling entrances. So
happy to be here and look forward to
1213
01:23:48.239 --> 01:23:53.000
talking about it with you. So, without any further ado, let's start
1214
01:23:53.079 --> 01:23:57.760
with what makes to you a perfect
entrance? Is it long short, like
1215
01:23:58.119 --> 01:24:01.239
who currently and then we can kind
of bounce into people in history who currently
1216
01:24:01.319 --> 01:24:05.800
would be a person in the modern
WWE or anywhere in wrestling that stands out
1217
01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:11.399
as having a solid entrance in your
opinion. In my opinion, like the
1218
01:24:11.520 --> 01:24:18.039
best pro wrestling entrances have are authentic. They're authentic in terms of who the
1219
01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:25.479
wrestler is that's executing the entrance and
how that entrance plays into their their character.
1220
01:24:25.680 --> 01:24:28.720
So right now, if you had
to ask me who who has the
1221
01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:33.159
best entrance of the WWE two names
come to mind, one of which is
1222
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:40.159
AJ Styles and the other is Dean
Ambrose and and even Dean Ambrose inside of
1223
01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:45.239
his new newly found heel character.
But I'll talk about why from from each
1224
01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:51.399
perspective. AJ He's got a Christmas
to the entrance and he just has it.
1225
01:24:51.640 --> 01:24:56.399
It seems authentic. He seems like
if you just saw that guy on
1226
01:24:56.560 --> 01:25:00.359
the street, like he'd be acting
that way. He gets pump up as
1227
01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:03.119
he's walking down the ramp. He's
got his pose at the top to bring
1228
01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:05.960
the audience in with him. And
then when he gets into that ring,
1229
01:25:06.279 --> 01:25:11.359
he kind of does that shoot off
the off the ropes and uh just faces
1230
01:25:11.399 --> 01:25:14.479
the audience and hits that pose again. And I just I think it's in
1231
01:25:14.640 --> 01:25:18.600
line with who he's trying to convey
himself. As as the phenomenal AJ Styles,
1232
01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:24.479
he looks almost like a almost like
a superhero within the entrance on the
1233
01:25:24.560 --> 01:25:30.000
flip side, whereas AJ's is very
produced and Okay, I'm gonna hit this
1234
01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:31.640
post here and then I'm gonna walk
down the ramp and then I'm gonna get
1235
01:25:31.680 --> 01:25:35.119
in the ring. I'm gonna hit
the pose again, Like Dean Ambrose,
1236
01:25:35.279 --> 01:25:41.760
is authentic in a different way because
he's this unhinged lunatics guy. And for
1237
01:25:41.920 --> 01:25:45.640
his entrance, I don't I don't
know that you can pinpoint an entrance of
1238
01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:49.720
his that he's done the exact same
way throughout his time in WWE. There's
1239
01:25:49.720 --> 01:25:54.640
always little nuances, there's always little
intricacies to how he walks to the ring
1240
01:25:54.720 --> 01:25:58.079
and how he gets into the ring
once his entrance is over. And I
1241
01:25:58.159 --> 01:26:00.800
think that's right in line and austhemic
with who he is as a character and
1242
01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:05.720
who he's trying to be as an
act in WWE. So two proposites,
1243
01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:11.199
but two good examples of two different
entrances, and I think really really work
1244
01:26:11.920 --> 01:26:15.960
in today's w W excellent. And
for me, I would say, right
1245
01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:20.920
off the bat, I think uh
aj styles is a great one because I'm
1246
01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:26.479
as much a visual as I am
the audio. So I remember the rumble
1247
01:26:26.840 --> 01:26:30.399
and when it said I am and
then it said phenomenal, and everyone exploded
1248
01:26:30.439 --> 01:26:32.720
because you realize, yeah, he
did, it's him, he really is
1249
01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:36.159
here, and that just kind of
set the stage for what has now been
1250
01:26:36.199 --> 01:26:42.039
a really really strong entrance. Uh
yeah, oh go ahead, let me
1251
01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:44.039
let me just pig you back off
that. Yeah, real quick, real
1252
01:26:44.119 --> 01:26:47.119
quick. I think that's a really
good point. And I think you know,
1253
01:26:47.279 --> 01:26:51.079
aj he you know, he's the
cream of the crop and he he
1254
01:26:51.479 --> 01:26:56.680
really hits that. You know,
kind of go back and look at his
1255
01:26:56.840 --> 01:27:00.119
entrances when he's done kind of doing
his post at the beginning, he's not
1256
01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:03.239
like the I Am phenomenal words fully
on the screen like right behind him,
1257
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:06.279
and it is a heck of a
visual when he times it right out and
1258
01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:13.319
nine times out of ten, yeah, and it's so I mean everything from
1259
01:27:14.039 --> 01:27:17.239
the you know, he's practiced kind
of like the guys in football, like
1260
01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:20.720
the Nike style of his gloves,
how much he has to keep his one
1261
01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:25.920
hand of spirit so that the aka
is covered, how much he needs to
1262
01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:29.000
bounce off the rope, so he
kind of looses himself up a little bit.
1263
01:27:29.279 --> 01:27:32.199
You know, everything he does is
as my mom used to say,
1264
01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:36.920
he does it in excellence. And
so you don't care what his height is,
1265
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:40.479
you don't care what his weight is. He is larger than life.
1266
01:27:40.520 --> 01:27:44.119
And from that moment the music hits, you know, something's about the happen.
1267
01:27:44.199 --> 01:27:48.600
That's awesome totally. And he also
got he's got a you know intensity
1268
01:27:48.680 --> 01:27:53.399
to it too. Like I think, you know, you could talk about
1269
01:27:53.640 --> 01:27:57.960
other people's interests in WW these days, there's cool stuff behind it. I
1270
01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:01.520
think Charlotte is a good example where
she's doing some cool things that she's hitting
1271
01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:04.880
her spots, but I think she
lacks a little bit of intensity. When
1272
01:28:04.920 --> 01:28:08.920
AJ's doing his entrance, you know
that he's going to that ring to fight,
1273
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:12.000
whether it's to defend the title or
fight for the title. Like you
1274
01:28:12.079 --> 01:28:15.039
know, he's walking to that ring
to fight. He conveys that well within
1275
01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:19.319
the production that he's doing that is
his entrance. He's really got to figure
1276
01:28:19.319 --> 01:28:28.319
it out. You don't have to
wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post
1277
01:28:28.359 --> 01:28:30.319
show to find out what I thought
of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each
1278
01:28:30.359 --> 01:28:33.920
week, you can check out my
reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
1279
01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:40.159
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My
written report will tell you what's happening in
1280
01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:44.199
detail in case you missed the show, and it'll also analyze key segments and
1281
01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:47.640
give my random thoughts quips on what
I am watching as it airs. So
1282
01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:53.439
check it out every Monday night and
Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That
1283
01:28:53.520 --> 01:28:57.880
also applies to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot
1284
01:28:57.920 --> 01:29:00.119
com with a detailed written report with
Star Wars, and of course you can
1285
01:29:00.159 --> 01:29:04.880
find other TV reports from other contributors
to pw torch such as nxt roh,
1286
01:29:04.960 --> 01:29:10.199
Impact Wrestling and more. Check it
out pw torch dot com your first stop
1287
01:29:10.439 --> 01:29:25.680
for TV and pay per view written
reports. And for me, I look
1288
01:29:25.760 --> 01:29:30.439
at a person who had a decent
wrestling theme, had a decent entrance,
1289
01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:35.359
but then one dumb quirk of fate
has turned his theme into one of the
1290
01:29:35.479 --> 01:29:38.760
best and one of his entrances into
one of the best, and that's Seth
1291
01:29:38.840 --> 01:29:41.520
Rollins. I know you just mentioned
Dean Ambrose as far as person that does
1292
01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:45.239
too much, but with Seth,
as soon as you hear burn it Down,
1293
01:29:45.119 --> 01:29:50.479
everyone loses their minds and then that
that hard riff is easier to kind
1294
01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:55.800
of slam and bang your head into
as opposed to what it was just the
1295
01:29:55.960 --> 01:29:59.239
hard This isn't the shield, but
it's still going to be a banging riff
1296
01:29:59.680 --> 01:30:03.640
of years prior to that. It's
so funny that you bring up his entrance
1297
01:30:03.680 --> 01:30:09.520
because when that burn it Down part
got added into the music, I about
1298
01:30:09.640 --> 01:30:12.159
just lost my mind. I was
like, this is this is the worst
1299
01:30:12.199 --> 01:30:15.720
thing ever. It throws everything out
of whack and now here we are like
1300
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:18.079
one of the highlights, for better
or for worse. It's one of the
1301
01:30:18.159 --> 01:30:21.840
highlights of money night raw these these
days, because it's something that the crowd
1302
01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:26.399
knows is coming and they can scream
it at the top of their lungs and
1303
01:30:26.439 --> 01:30:29.000
then, like you said, they
can just get into that music more.
1304
01:30:29.680 --> 01:30:34.479
You were at WrestleMania thirty four this
year and I was with three casual fans
1305
01:30:34.760 --> 01:30:39.000
and they just thought that when Robin's
made his entrance and the entire you know,
1306
01:30:39.159 --> 01:30:42.600
eighty thousand people yelled burn it down, they thought that that was one
1307
01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:46.319
of the coolest moments of the night. Yeah, and you know, going
1308
01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:50.000
to WrestleMania thirty four and then after
this we could probably take some callers because
1309
01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:54.880
we can go all over the place
with this awesomeness. But I would say
1310
01:30:54.960 --> 01:31:00.119
he has a solid entrance historically overall. But his WrestleMania entrance was probably the
1311
01:31:00.199 --> 01:31:03.119
best one I've ever seen on television
and the best one I've ever seen live.
1312
01:31:03.319 --> 01:31:09.159
That's the Undertaker. I was sitting
in the hundred level and when you
1313
01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:13.439
had the visual of the graveyard and
the laser lights as you saw the tombstones
1314
01:31:13.479 --> 01:31:18.920
and him walking down amongst them,
that was like top level Hollywood. You
1315
01:31:19.119 --> 01:31:23.079
guys, knock this out of the
park. And he could still take it
1316
01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:26.560
at his pace and do everything he
normally does. But it took on another
1317
01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:30.399
set of another set of awesomeness in
the Layer, especially because it was a
1318
01:31:30.479 --> 01:31:35.439
quote unquote impromptu match with Sena.
Yeah, it sure did. And yeah,
1319
01:31:35.880 --> 01:31:42.119
I think can't you can't have a
pro wrestling interesting discussion without talking about
1320
01:31:42.159 --> 01:31:45.479
the Undertaker, right. I think
that's another great example of what I was
1321
01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:47.239
kind of talking about at the top
of the show, of just being authentic
1322
01:31:47.560 --> 01:31:54.199
with the character. And I you
know, Undertaker's probably the best example out
1323
01:31:54.239 --> 01:31:57.560
there period. I mean, he's
able to do the slow walk to the
1324
01:31:57.680 --> 01:32:01.359
ring, the dead Man gimmick he's
got, you know, at WrestleMania's he's
1325
01:32:01.439 --> 01:32:04.720
had the Druids with him. It's
dark, there's fire, there's you know,
1326
01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:10.600
lightning bolts, like it really it
fits it just it just fits well.
1327
01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:15.079
And it doesn't seem like it doesn't
seem like like ag styles and like
1328
01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:17.119
Ambrose. For me, it doesn't
seem like he's putting it on. It
1329
01:32:17.239 --> 01:32:21.039
seems like this that is him,
that is his character, and I think
1330
01:32:21.359 --> 01:32:26.840
that's what that's what makes it so
that that element of being genuine is what
1331
01:32:26.960 --> 01:32:30.680
makes it so effective. Absolutely.
So let's go to the calls. We
1332
01:32:30.760 --> 01:32:34.239
have a fine gentleman who I am
very happy to always talk with, mister
1333
01:32:34.279 --> 01:32:39.079
four seven eight himself. The thank
you for calling the deep do state it's
1334
01:32:39.079 --> 01:32:48.439
your name and where you're calling from? Oh, oh, Kylan. Is
1335
01:32:48.479 --> 01:32:51.680
this part of his entrance? I
think it might be. I'm gonna put
1336
01:32:51.720 --> 01:32:57.239
him back on hold because maybe he
just wasn't ready. That's fine, But
1337
01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:00.560
let's go back to the themes now. I talked about ones. I like.
1338
01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:03.640
One theme I don't like, or
entrance I don't necessarily like is one
1339
01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:06.880
you already mentioned, and I think
it's Charlotte. She does to me,
1340
01:33:08.560 --> 01:33:12.760
yea, she has a great legacy. It's kind of like I really enjoyed
1341
01:33:12.920 --> 01:33:18.079
when Curtis Axel shifted to the altered
version of his dad's theme song. So
1342
01:33:18.199 --> 01:33:20.680
you have the legacy, but it's
been tweaked a little bit. I thought
1343
01:33:20.720 --> 01:33:24.640
that was really cool. Same thing
with her having a version of her dad's
1344
01:33:24.640 --> 01:33:29.439
theme song. That's fine, but
you can do the flip, you can
1345
01:33:29.520 --> 01:33:34.079
do the split. I don't know
if you need both. Yeah, exactly
1346
01:33:34.239 --> 01:33:39.520
like it just hers to me.
I totally agree with you about the music,
1347
01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:43.680
by the way, I think her
music itself fits perfectly. But she
1348
01:33:44.520 --> 01:33:47.880
seems like when she's out there going
through the entrance, she's mentally trying to
1349
01:33:47.960 --> 01:33:50.680
remember, Okay, I have to
walk out here, and then I'm gonna
1350
01:33:50.680 --> 01:33:54.600
spin around and make eye contact here, and then I'm gonna walk down,
1351
01:33:55.359 --> 01:33:59.960
take off the cape coat rogue thing, and then I'm gonna do my flip.
1352
01:34:00.039 --> 01:34:01.840
But then I'm gonna roll into the
ring. And it's like there's no
1353
01:34:02.720 --> 01:34:06.840
emotion or kind of passion or feeling
that entrance. It's just her kind of
1354
01:34:06.960 --> 01:34:15.159
going through the steps almost like this
is a weird, a weird analogy.
1355
01:34:15.239 --> 01:34:18.920
But it's like, there's good dancers
out there right who can who can do
1356
01:34:19.079 --> 01:34:23.239
the dance moves, But you can
also tell the great dancers for the good
1357
01:34:23.279 --> 01:34:27.520
ones because they're actually feeling, feeling
the dance that they're that they're doing.
1358
01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:30.600
And I think that's the differentiation between
Charlotte here. I don't think she's it's
1359
01:34:30.720 --> 01:34:34.479
fine, but she's not in the
moment with the entrance. She's trying to
1360
01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:39.159
like remember the steps and make sure
she hits all her marks rather than be
1361
01:34:40.119 --> 01:34:45.479
authentic and genuine with with with what
she's doing. Yeah, I think it
1362
01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:49.119
just especially even if she just kept
the regal robe and she didn't do the
1363
01:34:49.159 --> 01:34:53.640
split or the flip and she just
mean mugged jet as you walk down the
1364
01:34:53.720 --> 01:34:56.840
ring as the queen, I'd be
fine with that. Yeah, yeah,
1365
01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:00.199
totally. And the other thing with
Charlotte too is it's like regardless, and
1366
01:35:00.359 --> 01:35:06.760
this could be another element to dive
deeper into punk. Definitely intended in a
1367
01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:11.680
little bit, but you know,
it seems like regardless of the situation she
1368
01:35:11.800 --> 01:35:17.399
could be in, like the just
the baddest of blood feuds, and regardless
1369
01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:24.520
of whether her dad was was beaten
up or Page talked about her her brother
1370
01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:29.039
and her her father, like,
she's doing that entrance regardless. There's no
1371
01:35:29.359 --> 01:35:32.600
sense of like, wow, Okay, I'm gonna forego the entrance because I
1372
01:35:33.079 --> 01:35:35.960
don't want to get down to that
ring and feed up my opponent like she's
1373
01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:41.079
it's always kind of just cool with
just hitting those spots and doing her thing,
1374
01:35:41.159 --> 01:35:45.359
And I just think she loses touch
with the emotion of it if when
1375
01:35:45.399 --> 01:35:49.479
she does that yeah and going down. I mean, because at this point
1376
01:35:49.479 --> 01:35:53.159
we might as well just hit all
of the women, the wrestling horsemen,
1377
01:35:53.279 --> 01:35:56.600
women. I look at them,
and they all have their own nuanced things.
1378
01:35:57.119 --> 01:36:00.439
Becky's I thought was a little too
manic, but now she's become the
1379
01:36:00.600 --> 01:36:05.800
man. It's perfect because she's gotten
rid of the steampunk gears, she's gotten
1380
01:36:05.880 --> 01:36:11.359
rid of the steam. All she
has now is the man. And then
1381
01:36:11.479 --> 01:36:15.399
that really iconic very just like with
Sammy's saying if he finds something that's going
1382
01:36:15.439 --> 01:36:16.840
to be a good hitch for him
when he comes back, he has a
1383
01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:20.600
really catchy theme. He just needs
a really good entrance. It can't just
1384
01:36:20.720 --> 01:36:26.960
be I'm happy go look he coming
down the ring exactly. And I'm with
1385
01:36:27.039 --> 01:36:31.039
you on Becky. I think the
kind of the black backdrop on her entrance
1386
01:36:31.079 --> 01:36:34.039
and on the video screens and it
just says, you know, the man
1387
01:36:34.119 --> 01:36:38.119
and she's able just to pose at
the top of the ramp, hold that
1388
01:36:38.199 --> 01:36:41.560
belt up and just walk on out
there. I mean, that's that's all
1389
01:36:41.720 --> 01:36:44.880
her character needs at this point because
she is as sad as she is,
1390
01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:48.359
and she, you know, is
one of the best things going right now.
1391
01:36:48.399 --> 01:36:53.199
In WWE, she knows it,
she's she's the man. She knows
1392
01:36:53.319 --> 01:36:58.439
all eyes are on her, regardless
of any sort of bells and whistles on
1393
01:36:58.840 --> 01:37:05.119
her entrance. So simple is better
for her in that regard. And with
1394
01:37:05.319 --> 01:37:11.279
Sasha Boss Time that I would lose
saying boss time, Oh God, yeah,
1395
01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:16.359
me too. She's another one where
it's like there's parts of her interest
1396
01:37:16.439 --> 01:37:18.840
that I really like. I like
when she gets to the ring. I
1397
01:37:18.920 --> 01:37:23.720
think she kind of engages with the
with the with the audience, especially the
1398
01:37:23.760 --> 01:37:26.960
baby face. It works. She
kind of like dips down and shows like
1399
01:37:27.039 --> 01:37:30.000
the legit boss kind of ring thing
that she has. But what tries to
1400
01:37:30.079 --> 01:37:34.560
be crazy about her interest is when
she hits kind of that pose in line
1401
01:37:34.680 --> 01:37:38.840
with the with her music at the
top of the ramp. So she comes
1402
01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:42.800
out and then like the song kicks
in and shuts her little side pose.
1403
01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:45.640
Deal Like to me, it's like, ah, you're like listening to the
1404
01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:47.359
music waiting for that moment to hit
so you could do it, and that's
1405
01:37:47.439 --> 01:37:53.279
just it that's overproduced in my opinion. Yeah, I'm with you completely.
1406
01:37:53.680 --> 01:37:58.319
And then moving to Bailey, I
think the wacky waving inflatable arm flailing too
1407
01:37:58.399 --> 01:38:00.159
men or Bailey buddies as they like
to say, so they don't get sued
1408
01:38:00.560 --> 01:38:04.520
or they have something that they can
sue people over. I think it's fine.
1409
01:38:05.039 --> 01:38:11.279
I think her deal is fine,
but she needs an edge. And
1410
01:38:11.359 --> 01:38:15.000
I was talking on the East Coast
cast about the fact that you know,
1411
01:38:15.520 --> 01:38:18.079
Edge and Christians Show is back on, and that was a really fun show
1412
01:38:18.159 --> 01:38:21.000
for me when it first was on
the first season, and then on top
1413
01:38:21.079 --> 01:38:28.000
of that, I really enjoyed how
strong it was in terms of giving characters
1414
01:38:28.039 --> 01:38:30.920
who don't get a lot of TV
time TV time, and Bailey was one
1415
01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:34.680
of the best cases because she was
harassing toward the end of the first season
1416
01:38:34.920 --> 01:38:38.960
Tommy dreaming to no end, to
the point where she was hitting him in
1417
01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:42.760
the groin with a Kendo stick to
prove how hardcore she was. And now
1418
01:38:42.880 --> 01:38:50.800
she's come back and she's sitting down
as a psychiatrist for the revival and they're
1419
01:38:50.880 --> 01:38:55.720
doing sock puppets and it's like,
well, maybe I want to do flips,
1420
01:38:55.840 --> 01:38:58.800
maybe I'm not just about fisting,
and then she like looks up with
1421
01:38:58.880 --> 01:39:02.000
her eyebrows raised, looking at her
fit and I'm like, this is more
1422
01:39:02.079 --> 01:39:05.359
personality I've seen that herd than i've
seen the year and a half since the
1423
01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:10.760
show's been off, and it just
extends its way out to her theme.
1424
01:39:12.479 --> 01:39:14.800
It does, it does, and
I'm with you, I think she needs
1425
01:39:14.840 --> 01:39:17.399
an edge. I think in a
in a vacuum, just looking at at
1426
01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:20.000
her entrance for what it is like, I think, like you said,
1427
01:39:20.039 --> 01:39:23.840
it's fine. It does, It
does the job. I think it checks
1428
01:39:23.880 --> 01:39:27.359
off a lot of boxes that I
have in terms of it being authentic and
1429
01:39:27.479 --> 01:39:31.439
being in line with with the Bailey
character. It's just that at this point,
1430
01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:36.119
with where Bailey is these days,
you know, I'm not sure that
1431
01:39:36.279 --> 01:39:42.399
that character is enough. So this
this plays into it, but you give
1432
01:39:43.119 --> 01:39:45.159
give it a little bit of an
edge, give her a little bit of
1433
01:39:45.399 --> 01:39:47.199
an edge, and you can,
you can tweet that entrance and make it
1434
01:39:47.399 --> 01:39:51.319
make it fit better. But for
who Bailey is right now today, you
1435
01:39:51.399 --> 01:39:55.359
know, I can't. I can't
knit too much too much with it,
1436
01:39:55.439 --> 01:39:58.640
it seems like. And on top
of that, the audience reacts big for
1437
01:39:58.760 --> 01:40:00.640
it nine times out of ten.
So yeah, I want there to be
1438
01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:03.239
a little bit more there, a
little bit more, a little bit more
1439
01:40:03.319 --> 01:40:09.479
depth. And I think if they
told the Bailey story better on the main
1440
01:40:09.600 --> 01:40:13.239
roster, that entrance would be would
be more endearing. They just kind of
1441
01:40:13.479 --> 01:40:17.560
just started doing it though, and
there was no basis and foundation for it.
1442
01:40:17.680 --> 01:40:20.680
So it's fine, like you said, but I think there could be
1443
01:40:20.920 --> 01:40:24.319
there could be more depth there and
that would help Rout a lot too.
1444
01:40:28.239 --> 01:40:31.279
Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shopped
the world and formed the New World Order?
1445
01:40:31.680 --> 01:40:35.560
Or when Stone Cold Steve Austin passed
down on the Sharpshooter to break the
1446
01:40:35.640 --> 01:40:41.039
hit man heard. I'm Torch contributor
Frank petty Ani, and I've reviewed these
1447
01:40:41.079 --> 01:40:45.960
shows and many more for my exclusive
VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now.
1448
01:40:45.399 --> 01:40:48.680
Together with a rotating chair of co
hosts, we go back ten,
1449
01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:53.760
twenty, even thirty years, review
pay per views from top to bottom,
1450
01:40:54.119 --> 01:40:57.680
talk about where the wrestlers were at
the time, and compare what took place
1451
01:40:57.760 --> 01:41:02.000
then to what is taking place now. Exclusive access to these and other podcasts
1452
01:41:02.039 --> 01:41:06.520
as part of your PW Torch VIP
membership, which is compatible with the Apple
1453
01:41:06.600 --> 01:41:13.079
Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com
slash go vip for details and sign up
1454
01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:25.199
for so make sure you have any
questions you guys give us a call aera
1455
01:41:25.239 --> 01:41:28.600
code five one five, six one
five oh five one five six oh five
1456
01:41:28.680 --> 01:41:31.439
nine three four five. That's five
one five, six oh five nine three
1457
01:41:31.520 --> 01:41:38.359
four five. Uh so we went
through three of the four. Let's finish
1458
01:41:38.479 --> 01:41:41.199
up well, No, we did
all four. On the other side,
1459
01:41:41.640 --> 01:41:46.079
Ronda has uh we haven't. He's
heard Marina Shafir or the what's the other
1460
01:41:46.119 --> 01:41:53.840
woman's name in the Mma Horseman Marina
and I should know her, really I
1461
01:41:53.960 --> 01:41:59.600
should too. I'm about to google
it right now. Marina Shafir and Jessamin
1462
01:41:59.680 --> 01:42:02.680
Duke. Yes, there we go. Marina is usually the harder one to
1463
01:42:02.720 --> 01:42:08.039
remember, and somehow remembered her.
So Marina and Jessica like have I don't
1464
01:42:08.079 --> 01:42:13.760
know it's whatever. But when it
comes to Ronda, a Bad Reputation,
1465
01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:16.000
Eh, it was her theme in
UFC, so I get it, and
1466
01:42:16.119 --> 01:42:18.960
it's a good walkout music. I
don't know how much of an entrance theme
1467
01:42:19.000 --> 01:42:24.000
it is and how much of an
entrance because it's either the jeckal Hide where
1468
01:42:24.039 --> 01:42:29.840
she's smiling, or I would prefer
if she's gonna play Bad Reputation by jone
1469
01:42:29.920 --> 01:42:32.680
Jet, you gotta have the Steve
Boston would call it the BMF walk from
1470
01:42:32.760 --> 01:42:35.800
the start of that, you can't
be smiling. You gotta be ready.
1471
01:42:35.880 --> 01:42:39.880
I'm about to tear your arms off
and beat you with him. But her
1472
01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:44.079
partner in crime and n XT gets
that down to a science in terms of
1473
01:42:44.119 --> 01:42:47.199
what she does. Because I think
Shana Basler's entrance from start to finish is
1474
01:42:47.279 --> 01:42:55.760
outstanding. SHANEA. Bazil's entrance is
completely tremendous. Like I really again,
1475
01:42:56.000 --> 01:43:00.239
it checks off my two main boxes
of just being authentic and real and and
1476
01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:04.520
she it's I don't know, the
music has this rawness to it. She
1477
01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:11.079
there's no bells and whistles in terms
of like any special you know, poses
1478
01:43:11.399 --> 01:43:14.039
or points she's got to hit.
She just comes out there. She kind
1479
01:43:14.079 --> 01:43:17.159
of does some shadow boxing, She
hits the Queen of Hearts posing, and
1480
01:43:17.279 --> 01:43:20.640
she she walks to the ring with
us. She got to towel on around
1481
01:43:20.640 --> 01:43:26.039
her neck, and I I really
love outside of the music, but when
1482
01:43:26.079 --> 01:43:30.680
she gets in that ring, she
kind of does that that kind of shuffle
1483
01:43:30.760 --> 01:43:34.199
all the way around the in a
circle like she would or like a fighter
1484
01:43:34.279 --> 01:43:38.960
would inside of a UFC octey guy. And I love that she gets in
1485
01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:42.720
there. She does that, she
locks eyes with her opponent as she does
1486
01:43:42.760 --> 01:43:45.640
it, and it does just a
really nice job of setting setting the tone
1487
01:43:46.039 --> 01:43:50.960
for her as it's just complete badass
woman, who's gonna who's gonna kick your
1488
01:43:51.079 --> 01:43:55.399
ass? And I think, uh, she's she's on point with that,
1489
01:43:55.680 --> 01:44:00.960
and compared to to Ronda where where
where Basler is just right in line with
1490
01:44:00.079 --> 01:44:04.319
her character and totally authentic in nature. Ronda, she there's some hits and
1491
01:44:04.399 --> 01:44:08.880
missus in there with me. I
don't mind bad reputation. I think it
1492
01:44:08.960 --> 01:44:14.560
works for her. People know and
they relate her to that entrance entrance theme
1493
01:44:14.640 --> 01:44:17.039
bat to her UFC days. But
yeah, like you like you alluded to
1494
01:44:17.560 --> 01:44:23.359
the disconnect with her walking out to
that song and then smiling, waving and
1495
01:44:23.479 --> 01:44:28.039
handing you know, things out to
fans on the ramp that there's a little
1496
01:44:28.039 --> 01:44:30.760
bit of a disconnect for me.
I think sometimes she hits the right note
1497
01:44:30.800 --> 01:44:33.600
and sometimes she can be totally off
base, depend depending on the night,
1498
01:44:33.720 --> 01:44:38.000
depending on the situation, depending on
what she's walking to the ring for,
1499
01:44:38.199 --> 01:44:42.560
whether it's a grudge match with Naya
Jacks or promo. So I don't know
1500
01:44:42.680 --> 01:44:47.399
that she's really found her a consistent
entrance yet. But I've always said that
1501
01:44:47.479 --> 01:44:51.600
she's got to just get her emotions
and check with that entrance, because that
1502
01:44:51.880 --> 01:44:57.960
entrance it sets the tone for the
audience as to what's about to happen,
1503
01:44:58.039 --> 01:45:02.600
as to what your character is and
how that character is being portrayed. And
1504
01:45:02.720 --> 01:45:09.279
she's just sometimes can just be disconnected
in that regard. So I think it
1505
01:45:09.359 --> 01:45:11.680
comes with being a little bit green. I mean, she only has,
1506
01:45:12.039 --> 01:45:14.560
you know, less than a year
under her belt, so I think in
1507
01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:17.520
time she'll find she'll find that voice
with the entrance, But at the moment,
1508
01:45:17.560 --> 01:45:23.159
it's a little herky jerky. And
speaking of herky jerky, I think
1509
01:45:23.239 --> 01:45:26.760
one person that fits that on the
SmackDown roster in terms of her treatment as
1510
01:45:26.800 --> 01:45:30.000
Oska, but you can't say that
about her entrance. I think it was
1511
01:45:30.039 --> 01:45:33.560
sometime around the Dana Brook title match
in NXT. Oh no, not even
1512
01:45:33.640 --> 01:45:39.880
data it was. It wasn't Dana
Brook. It was the match she had
1513
01:45:40.399 --> 01:45:43.760
with oh my god, how did
I forget her name? Just now Mickey
1514
01:45:43.880 --> 01:45:47.880
James, the Mickey James Takeover match
where she has felt it and ever since
1515
01:45:48.359 --> 01:45:51.119
she's been one with that theme.
I mean, there'd be some matches where
1516
01:45:51.159 --> 01:45:54.960
she'd be cool, should be fine. That match stood out to me as
1517
01:45:55.000 --> 01:45:58.520
a time where she was just I
know, I'm the baddest woman on the
1518
01:45:58.600 --> 01:46:00.640
world. I know I'm the highest
woman in the world. I'm gonna show
1519
01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:03.439
you why, and I'm just gonna
take my sweet time coming down there.
1520
01:46:05.079 --> 01:46:10.359
Yep, she she sure did that
that entrance and and and even today still
1521
01:46:10.399 --> 01:46:14.800
I think there's a there's a quirkiness
to the arc behind her entrance, with
1522
01:46:14.920 --> 01:46:16.720
the way kind of the way she
walks, since she's got the coat and
1523
01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:20.279
the you know, that mask on
there. But it works for her,
1524
01:46:20.479 --> 01:46:26.760
and it especially work like you alluded
to more so in NXT. But but
1525
01:46:26.920 --> 01:46:30.199
yeah, she's she's right there in
line, and I think people see her
1526
01:46:30.279 --> 01:46:33.880
and and you're kind of you're audit. Whether you know the history of her
1527
01:46:33.920 --> 01:46:38.159
booking, whether you know, hey, okay, she was undefeated or not,
1528
01:46:38.439 --> 01:46:42.479
it doesn't really matter. If you
took somebody who had never seen pro
1529
01:46:42.520 --> 01:46:45.600
wrestling before, you sat them in
kront of a TV and showed them,
1530
01:46:45.800 --> 01:46:48.079
you know, four or five six
entrance to that Oscar One's gonna stick out.
1531
01:46:48.119 --> 01:46:53.800
There's something about it, that quirkiness
and that you know, kind of
1532
01:46:54.159 --> 01:46:58.600
just emotion that she can get out
of people when she's doing it just it's
1533
01:46:58.640 --> 01:47:01.279
something that you have to keep your
eyes on and that it's kind of it's
1534
01:47:01.319 --> 01:47:05.960
eye catches, and so I think
she got that going for regardless of what
1535
01:47:06.920 --> 01:47:12.199
storyline she's in, and I think
that's a big reason why she's still relevant,
1536
01:47:12.439 --> 01:47:15.520
giving how poorly she's been booked for
the better part of six seven months.
1537
01:47:17.560 --> 01:47:21.399
Now, before we move on to
a kind of like because we're gonna
1538
01:47:21.439 --> 01:47:28.840
apologize to everyone because of these darn
technical difficulties and my marital responsibilities, I
1539
01:47:28.880 --> 01:47:33.319
may have to cut this deep dive
episode shorter than I intend. I want
1540
01:47:33.359 --> 01:47:36.760
to talk about tag teams, and
obviously we have to start with the USOS
1541
01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:42.479
because I think their transition from an
entrance that worked to an entrance that worked
1542
01:47:42.520 --> 01:47:46.960
even better is something that bears mentioning. Yeah, they are, and I
1543
01:47:47.039 --> 01:47:51.520
think the tag team thing in general
is a good thing to discuss with entrances.
1544
01:47:51.640 --> 01:47:55.880
But yeah, man, I mean, if you're asking me which one
1545
01:47:55.920 --> 01:48:01.039
I prefer, I prefer their entrance
now it's kind of just really it's one
1546
01:48:01.039 --> 01:48:05.399
of the more straightforward entrances on the
roster music kids. They walk out,
1547
01:48:05.520 --> 01:48:10.680
but I'll tell you what their previous
entrants when they had the face paint on
1548
01:48:10.840 --> 01:48:15.760
and did the Samoan I don't know
if you call it. I guess I'm
1549
01:48:15.760 --> 01:48:18.279
not sure if dance is the right
word, or I'll just use the Samoan
1550
01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:23.720
dance to define it. But that
did a good job of setting the tone
1551
01:48:24.000 --> 01:48:27.800
for their characters as well. And
I again that to be is a big
1552
01:48:28.039 --> 01:48:32.359
part of a successful entrance. So
yeah, it's a little comic book bookie.
1553
01:48:32.439 --> 01:48:35.600
It's a little cartoonish in the way
they were presented, but that entrance
1554
01:48:35.680 --> 01:48:40.560
caught your attention and it did a
good job of defining who the Usos were
1555
01:48:40.600 --> 01:48:45.199
at that time, like their entrance
does for them now. And on the
1556
01:48:45.239 --> 01:48:50.640
other side, you have pretty straightforward
and I feel like again another case of
1557
01:48:51.079 --> 01:48:58.800
they did okay separately, but the
second they made Shamus and Cesaro's themes merge
1558
01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:04.279
and they did the uh back to
back motion with the lights, that was
1559
01:49:04.439 --> 01:49:09.600
the Whoever came up with that needs
to needs to do a lot more in
1560
01:49:09.720 --> 01:49:14.520
that company, because that was genius
from the lights. Because the lights definitely
1561
01:49:14.560 --> 01:49:19.199
remind me of right before Bautista left
the first time around, where he would
1562
01:49:19.239 --> 01:49:24.560
have I walk alone and he'd just
have the spotlight and that was another entrance
1563
01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:28.159
that was just, oh, we
really nailed it before he got out of
1564
01:49:28.199 --> 01:49:30.840
wrestling full time. And so you
take that and then you have their themes,
1565
01:49:30.880 --> 01:49:35.760
which I never thought could ever go
together, and it's perfect. Yeah,
1566
01:49:35.840 --> 01:49:40.560
no, I totally agree. And
for a while I was of the
1567
01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:43.479
mindset of, oh my god,
this is this is bad. You just
1568
01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:47.239
just put two guys together. And
at the time, like they they weren't
1569
01:49:47.279 --> 01:49:50.119
the bar. They were just shamous
and cizarro. We're not really, we
1570
01:49:50.159 --> 01:49:54.000
don't have much for you. So
let's say it be a tag team and
1571
01:49:54.279 --> 01:49:58.800
here you go. We'll merge your
entrance music together and boom, that's all
1572
01:49:58.840 --> 01:50:00.319
you have. So that news out
of the gates. I was like,
1573
01:50:00.439 --> 01:50:03.039
oh, this is this is this
is bad stuff. And they didn't really
1574
01:50:03.119 --> 01:50:09.479
have a cohesive entrance at all when
they first started. And now you look
1575
01:50:09.520 --> 01:50:14.199
at their presentation. There they've got
they've got a gimmick to them. They've
1576
01:50:14.239 --> 01:50:18.119
got the same music, which is
effective now because they have that gammick in
1577
01:50:18.199 --> 01:50:21.319
place. But but yeah, when
that light hits and then they're they're kind
1578
01:50:21.359 --> 01:50:26.119
of black silhouettes. Is in the
middle of that light ahead of the entrance,
1579
01:50:26.680 --> 01:50:30.439
you kind of get the crowd shot
behind them, like the full audience
1580
01:50:30.560 --> 01:50:32.880
in the arena behind them when the
when the lights come back on. I
1581
01:50:32.960 --> 01:50:35.880
think that's really cool. And they, I don't know, they looked,
1582
01:50:35.960 --> 01:50:40.279
They look big time in that entrance, and I think it's it's helped.
1583
01:50:40.600 --> 01:50:45.640
It's helped their act in WWE to
go to that and move to that then
1584
01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:48.960
just be e merging of two gimmicks
into one. They've really made it their
1585
01:50:48.960 --> 01:50:53.479
own in that way. And who
would you say, is there anyone that
1586
01:50:53.600 --> 01:50:57.279
stands out on the opposite side of
the ledger where you're kind of like this
1587
01:50:57.479 --> 01:51:00.239
theme, I don't know, Uh, the closest I could have thought it
1588
01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:04.880
was back in the next when it
was when oh god, what was Alexa
1589
01:51:04.920 --> 01:51:11.439
Bliss's tag team that she managed,
Blake and Murphy. Yeah, Blake and
1590
01:51:11.560 --> 01:51:15.520
Murphy, as Travis would call him
the bleep blow up Twins because it would
1591
01:51:15.600 --> 01:51:18.960
just you'd hear the dove step and
it would just be You're like, what
1592
01:51:19.199 --> 01:51:25.760
is going on? My head hurts? That's so true. Yeah, I'm
1593
01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:29.159
trying to think of somebody. I
mean, I'm not a huge fan of
1594
01:51:29.239 --> 01:51:33.319
the heath Slater Rhino entrance for one
thing. It's mainly just Heath Slater and
1595
01:51:33.439 --> 01:51:41.560
you have this rhino character coming out
with Heath Slater and who like the two
1596
01:51:41.640 --> 01:51:44.680
have nothing to do with one another. And I think that's a good example
1597
01:51:44.720 --> 01:51:46.680
of again they just kind of put
two guys together and hey, you know,
1598
01:51:46.800 --> 01:51:49.520
we're not gonna have that much for
you to just walk out to Keith
1599
01:51:49.560 --> 01:51:54.600
Slater's entrant music. It's it's it's
fine, you know. So yeah,
1600
01:51:54.640 --> 01:51:57.640
I think that one and not that
we're going to be seeing that much anymore.
1601
01:51:57.680 --> 01:52:00.399
It doesn't look like after the events
of Money that Row, but that
1602
01:52:00.479 --> 01:52:02.279
doesn't do too much for me.
On the flop side, the one that
1603
01:52:02.319 --> 01:52:08.000
I'll you're brain about authors are paint
I mean, how do you think they
1604
01:52:08.279 --> 01:52:11.520
they look? I mean, I
love big shows when they kind of have
1605
01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:15.920
the helmet and the head gear and
like they look like almost like alien robots
1606
01:52:15.960 --> 01:52:19.439
from a teenage routan Ninja Turtles movie
or something like that. They look really
1607
01:52:19.520 --> 01:52:25.119
cool when when done right. Yeah, And I think first of all,
1608
01:52:25.119 --> 01:52:30.039
Akaman raisar I like that, and
then you know offers a pain super collider
1609
01:52:30.399 --> 01:52:35.119
and you know, it's all cute
in terms of the package. But then
1610
01:52:35.159 --> 01:52:39.920
you put them out there in the
riot gear. I would have preferred it
1611
01:52:40.000 --> 01:52:44.680
with precious Paul Ellering as opposed to
my little dude there, because now you
1612
01:52:44.760 --> 01:52:46.760
have them as the pants pisser,
and that's not a you don't want two
1613
01:52:46.800 --> 01:52:51.279
tough guys being associated. Unless it's
a guy Ritchie movie, You're not gonna
1614
01:52:51.279 --> 01:52:55.560
be able to make it work.
Like he could figure out a way to
1615
01:52:55.640 --> 01:52:59.880
make like some dude like Brad Pitt, like at the very first act PM
1616
01:53:00.479 --> 01:53:02.159
and then by the end of the
movie you have like two dudes. Is
1617
01:53:02.199 --> 01:53:05.399
this tough guy's heavies and you believe
it? With this You're just like,
1618
01:53:05.520 --> 01:53:10.000
why are you guys associated with this
idiot? Like what does he do?
1619
01:53:11.600 --> 01:53:14.520
It? Is it they did?
He does? And he almost like I
1620
01:53:14.520 --> 01:53:18.640
don't know. He looks like they're
like kind of like little brother tagging along
1621
01:53:18.760 --> 01:53:24.720
and not somebody who's actively managing them
and getting into the next space. I
1622
01:53:24.760 --> 01:53:28.119
think like they walk out at the
top of the ram, they cannot they
1623
01:53:28.199 --> 01:53:30.520
both this bumped Drake Maverick, and
I'm like, oh god, it just
1624
01:53:30.600 --> 01:53:35.760
looks like, you know, two
older brothers walking up to a basketball court
1625
01:53:35.840 --> 01:53:40.119
with their with their younger brother,
Like it's just there's nothing menacing about that,
1626
01:53:40.279 --> 01:53:44.640
But you take aop alone and and
with Paul Aaron ellery he he,
1627
01:53:44.880 --> 01:53:49.720
he added a layer of credibility to
that act just because he just looked menacing
1628
01:53:50.199 --> 01:53:54.319
in between those guys. And I
don't think I don't think Maverick does this
1629
01:53:54.479 --> 01:53:59.199
in the same way. I'm I'm
definitely with you on that, and I
1630
01:53:59.439 --> 01:54:03.039
I think looking at the obviously,
the New Day is solid all the way
1631
01:54:03.079 --> 01:54:06.800
around. I don't know how they've
scrated around the legality of chucking food into
1632
01:54:06.840 --> 01:54:11.520
the crowd without getting in trouble,
but hey, if they were able to
1633
01:54:11.600 --> 01:54:15.720
do it, God bless keep doing
it. Thanks for downloading today's show.
1634
01:54:15.840 --> 01:54:17.720
Take it to the next level with
a VIP membership. Get shows like this
1635
01:54:18.079 --> 01:54:21.880
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01:54:21.960 --> 01:54:28.399
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1637
01:54:28.439 --> 01:54:31.960
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01:54:31.960 --> 01:54:35.079
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1640
01:54:40.119 --> 01:54:44.119
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01:54:44.600 --> 01:54:47.920
all the bonus content and the ad
free listening experience pw torch dot com
1642
01:54:48.199 --> 01:55:01.439
slash go vip. I wanted to
close with stables, and right now,
1643
01:55:02.399 --> 01:55:09.520
the best and the brightest in terms
of stable entrances to me is Undisputed Era.
1644
01:55:10.800 --> 01:55:13.600
They are just four dudes. If
you see him in a car,
1645
01:55:13.720 --> 01:55:16.239
you want it run off the road. If they're in a supermarket there you
1646
01:55:16.319 --> 01:55:19.640
have thirty items in the tight arms
or a less line. They're just smarmy
1647
01:55:20.119 --> 01:55:25.399
and they're just annoying. And they
skip at the movie theater and sit in
1648
01:55:25.479 --> 01:55:28.960
seats they aren't supposed to, and
that theme. It starts out and you
1649
01:55:29.159 --> 01:55:31.239
like it because it sounds like a
rage against the machine knockoff. But then
1650
01:55:31.319 --> 01:55:33.920
they come out and you're just like, ugh, I forgot it was you.
1651
01:55:35.800 --> 01:55:40.239
Yeah, you're right. It starts
off like okay, well we're gonna
1652
01:55:40.239 --> 01:55:44.920
see some cool, something cool is
happening. And then you got Adam Cole's
1653
01:55:45.079 --> 01:55:48.119
like smirk out of his face.
You got Kyle O'Reilly smiling the way he
1654
01:55:48.279 --> 01:55:53.279
does. Same with Roderick Strong.
They do that like annoying pose at the
1655
01:55:53.359 --> 01:55:56.520
top of the ramp, and you
know, I'm with you, You just
1656
01:55:56.640 --> 01:56:00.560
like want to You see them walk
down the ramp and they're kind of slowly
1657
01:56:00.159 --> 01:56:04.800
gallivanting to the ring O'Reilly's doing the
doing the air guitar. It's just like,
1658
01:56:05.159 --> 01:56:09.640
man, like you just want to
stop them and just smack those smirks
1659
01:56:09.880 --> 01:56:15.279
right off their faces. And so
yeah, it works again like they're hitting
1660
01:56:15.359 --> 01:56:18.760
the right mark with their entrance because
it's it's it's setting the tone for for
1661
01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:24.960
their characters and it's laying that foundation
for the audience so that the first second
1662
01:56:25.039 --> 01:56:27.680
that you see them, you just
start like, oh God, get this
1663
01:56:27.760 --> 01:56:30.600
guy off my screen. I'm gonna
platform, where's the babyface? Where's Ricochet?
1664
01:56:30.840 --> 01:56:33.600
That's gonna come here and and and
take care of business. And it
1665
01:56:33.760 --> 01:56:39.680
starts from the moment they walk out
after that ramp and they it's on point
1666
01:56:39.680 --> 01:56:44.960
one hundred percent as far as stables
too, I'll throw a and it's kind
1667
01:56:45.000 --> 01:56:48.439
of kind of similar to a disputed
era and it's a it's not a current
1668
01:56:48.479 --> 01:56:54.720
one, but the evolution and I
always thought was was really cool and effective
1669
01:56:54.760 --> 01:56:59.359
for those for those four guys,
like they obviously all four of them,
1670
01:56:59.520 --> 01:57:02.720
Rick Flair, Randy order Fatiste,
the Triple h be Stars, and like
1671
01:57:03.359 --> 01:57:08.800
just the kind of the yellow and
gold in that entrance, the slow pace
1672
01:57:08.880 --> 01:57:13.520
of it that allowed them to just
saunter down to the things the booze rained
1673
01:57:13.560 --> 01:57:15.920
in. It's just another moment where
you're like, I just want to smack
1674
01:57:16.039 --> 01:57:20.680
these guys. They're so arrogant and
so annoying, Like where's where's the baby
1675
01:57:20.760 --> 01:57:25.319
face at? That's gonna rough these
guys up. So I think from a
1676
01:57:25.439 --> 01:57:30.479
stable perspective, their entrance was effective
too. Yeah, And of course I
1677
01:57:30.560 --> 01:57:34.399
mean the shield. As far as
modern entrances before they broke up at their
1678
01:57:34.479 --> 01:57:39.399
height, that was probably one of
the top five top ten entrances all time.
1679
01:57:39.800 --> 01:57:43.720
Especially their Mania entrance when they had
the riot masks on and entered from
1680
01:57:43.760 --> 01:57:46.119
different parts of the stadium. I
think that was the one where I think
1681
01:57:46.159 --> 01:57:50.000
it was Dave Meltzer had quoted that
they wanted to do a helicopter but they
1682
01:57:50.000 --> 01:57:55.600
couldn't get cleared to do it,
and that would have been like something,
1683
01:57:56.000 --> 01:57:58.399
Yeah, that would have blown my
mind. I think that really would have
1684
01:57:58.399 --> 01:58:03.319
blown my mind. Horsemen. Horsemen
had an iconic entrance as far as the
1685
01:58:03.560 --> 01:58:08.199
hoofs and then just them walk into
the ring. But then out of the
1686
01:58:08.279 --> 01:58:13.039
new group, I would say,
I'm trying to think of someone that stands
1687
01:58:13.279 --> 01:58:17.359
out. What about sanity? Sanity? Oh God, yes, Sanity's up
1688
01:58:17.399 --> 01:58:25.720
there with authors of pain without any
silliness, and especially when you have like
1689
01:58:26.279 --> 01:58:31.399
sanity theme proper. But then when
you go to Nicky Cross, she has
1690
01:58:31.479 --> 01:58:34.920
her own version of it with her
screaming and it's a little higher pitched.
1691
01:58:35.399 --> 01:58:39.399
And I like the fact that they
take the attention to that it isn't just
1692
01:58:39.760 --> 01:58:42.640
you have a sanity theme and you
have a sanity theme. It's like different
1693
01:58:43.079 --> 01:58:48.800
versions of it. Yeah, And
I especially liked it in and they I'm
1694
01:58:48.840 --> 01:58:55.239
SmackDown are performing on SmackDown. I
think the camera angles and stuff are almost
1695
01:58:55.319 --> 01:58:59.239
a little bit too overdone in terms
of the shakiness that goes along with them.
1696
01:58:59.439 --> 01:59:01.840
But I think they walked that fine
line well in m XT. It
1697
01:59:02.000 --> 01:59:05.960
just it they were able to kind
of move the cameras, they tilted them
1698
01:59:06.039 --> 01:59:09.560
kind of side to side as they
walked to the ring. It was dark,
1699
01:59:09.680 --> 01:59:13.079
you couldn't see anything, and I
think that was just really effective in
1700
01:59:14.039 --> 01:59:16.520
kind of showcasing what that gimmick was
all about. And you know the name
1701
01:59:16.720 --> 01:59:24.479
Sanity just to me it kind of
exudes an element of we have no idea
1702
01:59:25.000 --> 01:59:29.119
what's going to happen, what's coming
from where, and the way their entrance
1703
01:59:29.279 --> 01:59:33.039
is shot kind of it rolls and
mirrors that a little bit because you can't
1704
01:59:33.199 --> 01:59:36.159
can't really see anything effectively. You're
just kind of looking all over the place
1705
01:59:36.199 --> 01:59:40.640
going Okay, what what the heck's
going on? And that when I hear
1706
01:59:40.760 --> 01:59:43.399
Sanity, like that's that's what I
think of. So I think they're on
1707
01:59:43.520 --> 01:59:47.880
point there too. Yeah, And
I'll close up my side of things with
1708
01:59:48.640 --> 01:59:54.680
two that are outside of w W, one of which is pretty strong style.
1709
01:59:54.760 --> 02:00:00.720
When they come out and wrestle together, that entrance them timing. Trent
1710
02:00:00.800 --> 02:00:02.960
seven does a really good job of
before he enters the ring if those if
1711
02:00:03.000 --> 02:00:06.039
you notice, he'll grab his towel
and kind of wrap it around his neck
1712
02:00:06.079 --> 02:00:11.000
and slowly roll in and let the
fans build up. And so him and
1713
02:00:11.279 --> 02:00:15.880
him and Tyler Bait doing that while
Pete Dunn is putting his fist to his
1714
02:00:15.159 --> 02:00:18.960
chin as he holds a belt in
his mouth, or the heel version they
1715
02:00:18.960 --> 02:00:23.560
would do when they were bragging about
being signed by w W. Where they
1716
02:00:23.600 --> 02:00:29.479
would all do the triple H spit
on the apron and then do the that's
1717
02:00:29.680 --> 02:00:33.439
just oh, I love that,
and then I'm a big fan finally that
1718
02:00:33.600 --> 02:00:40.359
one, and then also the I
I just anytime they come out together,
1719
02:00:40.760 --> 02:00:47.159
the c CK slash, ring comp
slash, uh what's what is what's it
1720
02:00:47.319 --> 02:00:54.359
called? Uh? Oh god?
Not shot in freude, but basically ring
1721
02:00:54.439 --> 02:00:59.399
comp. It's a very very straightforward
very you come out to some great you
1722
02:00:59.439 --> 02:01:01.119
know, it's like a eat sent
me or something like that, your arm
1723
02:01:01.159 --> 02:01:05.279
behind your back and you're just really
serious. Ring comp is just super serious.
1724
02:01:05.319 --> 02:01:08.880
Then on the other side you have
c CK, which, regardless of
1725
02:01:08.960 --> 02:01:14.079
what iteration it is, they're basically
really good wrestlers that choose to be scumbacks
1726
02:01:14.079 --> 02:01:19.239
when they wrestle you. And so
when you have who is it it is
1727
02:01:19.960 --> 02:01:26.680
Tim Thatcher and Chris Brooks together,
it's the best of CCK and the best
1728
02:01:26.720 --> 02:01:31.239
of ring comp. Because Chris Brooks
will try to be like very serious and
1729
02:01:31.840 --> 02:01:34.960
ery dite and like do the ring
comp arm behind his back, and then
1730
02:01:35.000 --> 02:01:38.840
Tim Thatcher will notice it and like
slap them and say no, no,
1731
02:01:39.079 --> 02:01:43.159
that you can't do that. And
so I really like and I mentioned this
1732
02:01:43.520 --> 02:01:45.079
last week when I did a I
mean it might have been two weeks ago.
1733
02:01:45.319 --> 02:01:49.359
I always like when there's a dynamic
with the personalities where one person's kind
1734
02:01:49.359 --> 02:01:55.119
of like trying to emulate the other. Not to the level of what's going
1735
02:01:55.159 --> 02:02:01.159
on now with with Oh God,
Bobby rue Food. Yeah yeah, and
1736
02:02:01.399 --> 02:02:03.920
you're going there. Yeah, it's
not that level, But I do like
1737
02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:08.359
it where it's like one person is
trying to either rehabilitate themselves or go on
1738
02:02:08.439 --> 02:02:11.439
the straight and narrow, and they
just can't do it, so I I
1739
02:02:11.800 --> 02:02:15.159
and then finally when the other person
like gives into their darker impulses for a
1740
02:02:15.239 --> 02:02:19.159
second, I think that's neat.
Yeah for sure, And yeah I'll throw
1741
02:02:19.239 --> 02:02:24.560
I'll comment quickly on a on an
entrance outside of w W either he's really
1742
02:02:24.600 --> 02:02:29.279
good and I throw something at you
too, Jay White. I think he's
1743
02:02:29.399 --> 02:02:33.119
got a really cool entrance going on. I like his I like the music
1744
02:02:34.039 --> 02:02:40.000
that's that's behind him. I like
how his ring attire just kind of lines
1745
02:02:40.079 --> 02:02:45.319
up. I don't I never fully
understood what the switch Blade character necessarily was
1746
02:02:45.479 --> 02:02:49.319
or what it necessarily meant, but
he's got this consistent presentation with kind of
1747
02:02:49.359 --> 02:02:55.359
the posey hits at the top of
his entrance and the kind of the switch
1748
02:02:55.520 --> 02:02:59.880
blade sound that that opens up his
music. So I think his it's kind
1749
02:02:59.880 --> 02:03:03.399
of dark, it's brooding, and
very much in line with with who Jay
1750
02:03:03.439 --> 02:03:08.600
White is as a character. And
I'd be remiss to do a show about
1751
02:03:08.640 --> 02:03:14.439
pro wrestling entrances if I didn't bring
up Stone Cold Steve Austin's entrance, because
1752
02:03:14.640 --> 02:03:17.479
that, in my opinion, probably
one of the best entrances of all time,
1753
02:03:17.560 --> 02:03:21.760
between that the glass hitting, the
straight up BMF walk down to the
1754
02:03:21.880 --> 02:03:25.479
ring, hit each of those ring
posts, grab a mic, and then
1755
02:03:25.600 --> 02:03:30.520
go to work. So I've always
loved that one. I just there's something
1756
02:03:30.520 --> 02:03:34.600
about that glass hitting and the ensuing
insanity of a pop that came afterwards that
1757
02:03:35.079 --> 02:03:40.720
was always just artistically beautiful to me. It still is to this day,
1758
02:03:40.800 --> 02:03:44.640
even though I know exactly what it
sounds like. But even to this day,
1759
02:03:44.920 --> 02:03:47.399
cup a cue up a Stone Cold
entrance with that glass and that pop,
1760
02:03:47.520 --> 02:03:53.119
and it's uh that that to me
is you know, that's pro wrestling.
1761
02:03:53.199 --> 02:03:57.039
That's that's the artistry of this business
shining through. So love it.
1762
02:03:57.640 --> 02:04:00.680
Yeah, I agree. I was
even thinking when I was about the show
1763
02:04:00.760 --> 02:04:02.399
driving and run some errands before I
had to get back home. I thought
1764
02:04:02.439 --> 02:04:09.680
about even when he switched to the
disturbed version, that was still good and
1765
02:04:09.800 --> 02:04:12.439
that would have been great for any
other wrestler. But you're like, I
1766
02:04:12.520 --> 02:04:16.319
missed the old one. And that's
how bright. It was so simple but
1767
02:04:16.399 --> 02:04:19.279
so effective. You break the glass
and then when even would drop the if
1768
02:04:19.279 --> 02:04:23.720
you hear the glass, you know
that so many different things he could play
1769
02:04:23.760 --> 02:04:27.119
off of it. And then it
got to the point where he had b
1770
02:04:27.359 --> 02:04:30.920
MF written on the left side of
his vest and it's like and it's just
1771
02:04:31.159 --> 02:04:34.239
all of it is just in there, and so I really appreciated that.
1772
02:04:38.159 --> 02:04:42.600
Yeah, so Ze, I will
go real quick on the Steve Boston too.
1773
02:04:42.720 --> 02:04:45.279
Sorry, gosh, I could talk
about this forever. I apologize.
1774
02:04:45.479 --> 02:04:49.079
No, no, no, I'll
have you back on the really dive into
1775
02:04:49.159 --> 02:04:54.359
some more stuff obviously nice, No, yeah no, but yeah, Steve
1776
02:04:54.439 --> 02:04:56.880
Dawson again, I think he talked
about this a couple of times. But
1777
02:04:57.239 --> 02:05:00.600
the intensity of that Andrews is there. There's no there's no going around that
1778
02:05:00.680 --> 02:05:03.760
class hits. He's out there and
then he's in that ring going to work
1779
02:05:03.840 --> 02:05:06.520
doing business, and I think,
you know, it's in line with his
1780
02:05:06.640 --> 02:05:11.439
character. That's a common theme of
my analysis here. But it also just
1781
02:05:11.640 --> 02:05:14.359
it sets, It sets the crowd, It gets them, it gets them
1782
02:05:14.439 --> 02:05:16.359
ready, which is what which is
what I just think is so special about
1783
02:05:16.359 --> 02:05:18.920
it. No, yeah, you're
right, and that I mean even when
1784
02:05:18.960 --> 02:05:23.239
I think about like the Rock the
Rocks with another one where people would get
1785
02:05:23.239 --> 02:05:25.600
ready, they know it was him, they knew it was coming. Uh.
1786
02:05:27.439 --> 02:05:31.039
The razor emone was kind of good, but then it wasn't as good
1787
02:05:31.479 --> 02:05:36.920
as when it got used later with
Austin Actually, and I did that with
1788
02:05:38.039 --> 02:05:42.119
them music where you could compare like
Jim Johnson kind of borrowing from himself.
1789
02:05:42.640 --> 02:05:45.920
And that's like, you know,
stealing from yourself is the best form of
1790
02:05:45.000 --> 02:05:50.039
flattery, I guess, as one
would say. But yeah, but so
1791
02:05:50.119 --> 02:05:51.880
before we get out of here,
Zach, why don't you let the folks
1792
02:05:51.960 --> 02:05:57.159
know where they can find you on
the Twitter verse and how they can follow
1793
02:05:57.239 --> 02:06:00.079
you for all of the great content
you bring to the torch. Yes,
1794
02:06:00.239 --> 02:06:03.560
appreciate it. Rich Well, you
know, recently, folks, I've lost
1795
02:06:03.600 --> 02:06:09.039
the battle with Twitter. So if
you're following me on my old account,
1796
02:06:09.079 --> 02:06:14.039
which is at z Haydorn, that
is no longer active. So now give
1797
02:06:14.079 --> 02:06:17.439
me a follow over at z Haydorn
Torch. That's at z h e y
1798
02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:23.239
d o r n Torch. And
yeah, ninety nine point nine percent of
1799
02:06:23.479 --> 02:06:28.560
progressing related stuff. But I'll you
know, my reforce will be there links
1800
02:06:28.600 --> 02:06:32.760
to the VIP page for you guys
out there who aren't Torch VIP members yet,
1801
02:06:32.880 --> 02:06:35.840
that's there for you too. And
but yeah, but check me out
1802
02:06:35.880 --> 02:06:41.319
during the week all over PW torch
dot com and then go vip and check
1803
02:06:41.359 --> 02:06:45.479
out the show on the canvas.
It drops every Friday afternoon. Well,
1804
02:06:45.520 --> 02:06:49.399
thanks for taking the time tonight,
Zach, and I appreciate you and all
1805
02:06:49.479 --> 02:06:55.359
the craziness going on with the week
and being so flexible. Oh absolutely rich
1806
02:06:55.479 --> 02:06:59.479
anytime. Love talking wrestling to you. So I appreciate talking wrestling with you.
1807
02:07:00.000 --> 02:07:02.119
Excuse me, but I appreciate you
having me on and let's do it
1808
02:07:02.159 --> 02:07:05.760
again soon. Sounds like a plan, So everyone, I hope you have
1809
02:07:05.840 --> 02:07:09.760
a great night, great weekend.
As always, dive into something new,
1810
02:07:10.079 --> 02:07:14.840
challenge yourself, push yourself beyond that
plus ultra and we'll be seeing you next
1811
02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:18.079
week. I will have problematic Sean
Covington on and Lord knows what we're going
1812
02:07:18.159 --> 02:07:23.600
to talk about. I apologize in
advance. Be good. Stay with me
1813
02:07:23.800 --> 02:07:28.520
for a moment as the boss Man
drops some information on the latest and greatest
1814
02:07:28.520 --> 02:07:31.359
in VIP. Until next time,
I've been rich fan, keep diving.
1815
02:08:05.119 --> 02:08:09.640
Invite you to email the show with
feedback or questions or comments. That email
1816
02:08:09.680 --> 02:08:16.159
address is Wadekeller Podcast at petwtorch dot
com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW toorch
1817
02:08:16.199 --> 02:08:18.479
dot com. Also welcome your feedback
on Twitter. You can follow us on
1818
02:08:18.600 --> 02:08:24.880
Twitter at PW Torch and follow me
at the Wadekeller. That's at PW Torch
1819
02:08:24.279 --> 02:08:31.600
and at the Wadekeller. Searching for
more great pro wrestling talk, then join
1820
02:08:31.680 --> 02:08:35.279
me Jason Powell host them the three
weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. Each week
1821
02:08:35.319 --> 02:08:39.479
you'll hear the latest news and analysis
from me and my team at pro wrestling
1822
02:08:39.520 --> 02:08:43.199
dot net along with other pro wrestling
media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
1823
02:08:43.239 --> 02:08:46.720
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with
notable names in the pro wrestling industry.
1824
02:08:46.920 --> 02:08:50.880
Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps,
1825
02:08:52.319 --> 02:08:56.640
or visit us directly at PW boom
dot com. Once again, that's PW
1826
02:08:56.840 --> 02:09:01.840
Boom dot com. Thanks listening to
our podcast. Did you know we also
1827
02:09:01.920 --> 02:09:07.119
have a website pwtorch dot com daily
news updates, editorials, and my live
1828
02:09:07.199 --> 02:09:11.840
TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and
SmackDown and my live pay per view coverage
1829
02:09:11.920 --> 02:09:16.119
for WWE and AEW. Create a
tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
1830
02:09:16.279 --> 02:09:18.319
Visit us throughout the day every day
to keep up on breaking news and
1831
02:09:18.479 --> 02:09:24.319
more. That's pw torch dot com. Need an extra dose of positivity in
1832
02:09:24.399 --> 02:09:30.439
your wrestling podcasts, will come join
me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress Paradise
1833
02:09:30.560 --> 02:09:35.600
at Pterboo Torch VIP as we mask
on the bright side of wrestling and focus
1834
02:09:35.720 --> 02:09:39.239
on some of the great matches and
shows from around the world, be it
1835
02:09:39.720 --> 02:09:43.640
US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past
1836
02:09:43.720 --> 02:09:48.399
in the Paradise too, and we've
done fun historical shows such as the We
1837
02:09:48.560 --> 02:09:54.199
Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career
of Jusian Thunderliger and our I Was There
1838
02:09:54.319 --> 02:09:58.000
When shows where our guests will join
me to talk about a classic bout that
1839
02:09:58.119 --> 02:10:01.720
they were in attendance for variety and
you can expect lots of it at the
1840
02:10:01.800 --> 02:10:07.600
Progress Paradise. Detailed pw Torch VIP
subscription information on a list of all the
1841
02:10:07.720 --> 02:10:13.800
VIP benefits is available at pwrew Torch
vip info dot com. And yes,
1842
02:10:13.159 --> 02:10:18.720
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular
podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices,
1843
02:10:20.319 --> 02:10:24.800
or you can stream them directly from
our ad free VIP mobile site. See
1844
02:10:24.840 --> 02:10:28.319
you in the Paradise. One way
that you can help us sustain our schedule
1845
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of putting out podcasts throughout the week
is by giving us a five star rating
1846
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on Apple Podcasts. Just go to
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1847
02:10:35.359 --> 02:10:39.319
Prosing podcast and Weight Keller Processing post
show and give us a five star rating.
1848
02:10:39.439 --> 02:10:43.880
We hope you think we've earned that
score with our fast turnaround times and
1849
02:10:43.960 --> 02:10:48.680
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1850
02:10:48.720 --> 02:10:50.840
out for us and do us favor
and give us a five star rating and
1851
02:10:50.880 --> 02:10:54.880
Apple Podcasts. That helps us on
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1852
02:10:56.039 --> 02:10:58.239
if you want, you can add
a few comments about what you like about
1853
02:10:58.239 --> 02:11:05.159
the programs in the comments section.
Thank you so much. In twenty twelve,
1854
02:11:05.479 --> 02:11:09.239
NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today.
1855
02:11:09.760 --> 02:11:16.000
On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight
Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
1856
02:11:16.119 --> 02:11:20.119
look at this page in NXT's early
history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom
1857
02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:24.600
Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday
as we go eight years back to the
1858
02:11:24.720 --> 02:11:28.560
day to track NXT's rising talents and
why they did or didn't work out,
1859
02:11:28.840 --> 02:11:35.399
exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.
PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you
1860
02:11:35.439 --> 02:11:39.039
add free access to these shows and
a ton of other VIP exclusive podcasts throughout
1861
02:11:39.039 --> 02:11:41.960
the week, but you also gain
access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling
1862
02:11:43.039 --> 02:11:46.479
history, our contemporaneous week to week
coverage through our progressing Torch Weekly newsletters dating
1863
02:11:46.520 --> 02:11:50.680
back to the late nineteen eighties,
along with streaming and download access to hundreds
1864
02:11:50.800 --> 02:11:54.720
of retro radio shows from the nineteen
nineties, including some of my interviews with
1865
02:11:54.840 --> 02:12:00.720
wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties,
and also our podcast Live dating back to
1866
02:12:00.720 --> 02:12:03.960
the year two thousand and three.
There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling
1867
02:12:05.039 --> 02:12:09.439
podcast library than that that comes with
a PW Torch VIP membership. Now we're
1868
02:12:09.439 --> 02:12:13.720
approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go
VIP and dive into our post pay per
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02:12:13.840 --> 02:12:16.960
view roundtables are covered with some of
your favorite eras of wrestling, top name
1870
02:12:18.079 --> 02:12:22.760
long form interviews, and special format
podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
1871
02:12:22.920 --> 02:12:26.560
Pw torch dot com slash go vip. We have a streamline sign up for
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me and you can pay with PayPal
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02:12:33.399 --> 02:12:37.720
VIP member and diving into our library. Pw torch dot com slash go vip.
1875
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a helping hand. Factor Meals shops, preps, cooks and delivers to your
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door so you can enjoy chef crafted, dietician approved meals during the holidays on
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demand, on a whim, whenever
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nutrient dense quick meal to get you
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and feeling healthy during the holiday season. Minus the hassle of online orders,
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plenty of nutritious, flavorful options to
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busy for a lot of us to
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junk food or bad food, and
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fun and you time. Thanks to
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one of my favorites. Need a
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flexible. Change your order every week
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meal time this holiday season. Factors
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time otherwise spent shopping, cooking,
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enjoy the holidays without wasting hours in
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endorse this product, I pay for
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get hungry, I need a quick
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food to give me the energy I
need to get through my workday or my
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work evening on those long pay per
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go to factormails dot com, slash
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get fifty percent off. Now,
PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the wid
39
00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:42.000
Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time
for this week's Interview Classic where Wade Killer
40
00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:49.240
Interview is one of Pro Wrestling's newsmakers. Five years ago. This week,
41
00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.879
my interview series with EXWWE Creative Team
members continued with Dave Legana joining me with
42
00:02:53.960 --> 00:03:00.280
a look ahead to twenty nineteen.
Changes on the Horizon with the announce meant
43
00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.919
of all Elite Wrestling and Dave Loghana's
thoughts on where that would go and where
44
00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:07.159
it would fit into the wrestling industry. Also, the latest on the NWA,
45
00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.439
which he's been involved in are a
wage signings, declining WWE ratings,
46
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:15.840
some memories of Dynamite Kid, and
more. This originally live streamed, and
47
00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:20.240
then in a bonus segment, The
Deep Dive with Rich Fan featured Zach Haydorn
48
00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:27.000
and they went in depth on wrestling
entrances. I talked about modern entrances,
49
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.159
wrestlers who do a bit too much
with their entrances. What could take a
50
00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:34.599
good entrance and make it great,
particularly the wrestlers who can show more personality
51
00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.560
outside of wrestling than they can on
their way to the ring. So it's
52
00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:40.000
a boat a segment coming up after
my interview with Dave Leghana. That Deep
53
00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:45.639
Dive with Rich Fan originally aired five
years ago on December eighth, twenty eighteen,
54
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:50.439
and it is Today's Wade Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast Interview Classic for Sunday,
55
00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:54.000
December tenth, twenty twenty three.
So, Dave, I want to start
56
00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:00.719
off by asking you if you have
memories of the late don My Kid Tommy
57
00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.960
Billington, who died this week at
age sixty, certainly a pioneer of his
58
00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.919
craft influential on a lot of wrestlers
in this industry who were tweeting about him
59
00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.680
this week. Yeah. Actually he
was at the very first I think live
60
00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:16.759
event I ever went to. I
think I tweeted this morning that the very
61
00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:20.759
first Babyface I ever cared about was
the British Bulldogs. I wanted to see
62
00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:27.040
them beat up the Dream Team because
they had they had taken a cigar into
63
00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.519
the eye of Windham a rotunda.
I can never remember which one, and
64
00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:31.759
I wanted to see them when the
tag titles so so like Din and my
65
00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:35.240
kid was, you know, to
a ten year old boy was the coolest
66
00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:40.240
thing he'd ever seen and watching on
Saturday mornings. You know, that tag
67
00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:45.839
team and that that act was so
cool to a nineteen eighties kid because they
68
00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:48.800
look like I don't like superheroes.
So you know, I only got to
69
00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:53.879
see him wrestle I think two or
three times live, and obviously his career
70
00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:57.160
was cut short, but yeah,
it was. It was very kind of
71
00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.879
sad this morning saying that you and
I are on a similar page. I
72
00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:08.480
I consider Dynamite Kid certainly in the
top ten and maybe the top five of
73
00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:15.759
my favorite wrestlers. To watch before
I started publishing The Torch and in the
74
00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:21.839
top five in terms of turning me
on to what professional wrestling could be athletically
75
00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.480
in a way that I had not
seen. And and this isn't to take
76
00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:31.399
a dag at my beloved hometown territory, the AWA, but the AWA did
77
00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:36.600
not have anybody who resembled the Dynamite
Kid. I mean they're the a WA's
78
00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:42.959
idea of junior heavyweight wrestling was rock
and roll bock zoom off against Stephen Regal,
79
00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.319
not William Regal, a different Steve
Riegel mister Electricity, and mister Electricity.
80
00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.120
Steve Riegl was the opposite of mister
Electricity. It was almost like a
81
00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:55.879
troll job to name him that name
it. It's like name of a guy
82
00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:00.360
left who's actually right, yes,
yes, and they open end up.
83
00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:04.000
They would often be in the opening
matches on AWA shows, and it was
84
00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:10.120
basically to make people who arrive late
and not feel bad. And that that
85
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:15.519
was such in star contrast to the
I opening British Bulldogs matches Yes against the
86
00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:21.600
Dream Team. I think those matches
on Saturday Night's main event are more influential
87
00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:29.160
than in terms of fans like who
are similar to us in age in the
88
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:31.519
eighties were as influential as any matches
I think out there. You know,
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people talk about us Ricky Steamboat and
Randy Savage at Wresselmany three, and rightfully
90
00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:42.720
so. But what Dynamite Kid and
Davy boy Smith did and Greg Valentine was
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was such a good opponent for them
at that time, and then obviously later
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on the Heart Foundation with Brett Hart, which was phenomenal. What they did
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in the ring was unlike anything you
could see in just about any US territory
94
00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:59.560
at that time. With Dynamite Kid
bringing that style over from the UK and
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00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:03.439
and and honing his craft and stamped
wrestling in Canada, I was, it
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was so different and so much more
athletic than anything. I mean, I
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does anything compare to it in terms
of uh being a pioneer and revolutionary in
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a sense, No, I mean
the era, And like I don't want
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people to like I think people think, oh, he's just like he would
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have been great in this era,
but like, go back and watch,
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like we used to actually pull tapes
from the w library when we're there and
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watch the House Show matches, the
Madison Square Garden matches. They would have
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with the with the I was about
to say the Midnight Express, which they
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never I don't think of it worked, but that they had with the heart
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foundation and like just understanding of what
it was meant to get over and like
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real shine, to understand how to
shine up a baby face. Like they
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they were such had such chemistry and
you know, people I don't think really
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realized and I didn't realize until I
really went into the Houston Library that we
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have the license on to see where
these guys perfected their craft. And obviously
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that group had been from Calgary and
Japan and just like you know the guys
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from in Atlantic came to work for
Vince. Like these guys wrought such a
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different style. And you know,
I feel like he was too early on
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the case, like he didn't make
the Cable era. I mean he was
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there, but you know so transformational. I mean, from Ben Wand to
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Davey Richards, so many guys that
just kind of patterned themselves after him and
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like literally yeah, I mean there's
so many guys that understand like what he
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offered, and you know it's and
like there's a Matt Higen, Ricky Stebo
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had a match with the Wrestling Classic, and I remember it being like the
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most amazing thing I had seen.
I think I saw the video tape because
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I didn't have the pay per view
at that time, so it's you know,
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I think a lot of people are
going to watch a lot of his
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matches. And I never met him. I heard he was a horrible human
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being. I read. I was
telling Jonathan Snowden today on Twitter that his
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book was the very first thing I
ever bought on this website called Amazon because
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a place I could get it like
and you had to order it from the
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UK, and it was the shipping
was more than the book at the time
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to get it. But yeah,
it was the very weird morning of morning
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finding that out, and you know, it's very sad, all right,
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So let's just set the table here, introduce ourselves formally. This is the
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Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Saturday, December eighth, twenty eighteen, a
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special double dose of Interview Friday slash
Interview Saturday. Yesterday, we added a
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show that was not planned and bumped
this a day later because of the death
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of Larry the ax heading pretty boy
Larry Hending. I wanted to do a
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show dedicated to him. He was
a top wrestler in the AWA for decades
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on the sixties, seventies into the
eighties. He was on the first wrestling
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show I ever saw in person,
the night Verngani retired Larry the ax heading
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a co top babyface, one of
the top baby faces in the company was
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on that show also and wanted to
talk to George Shire, AWA wrestling historian
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about Larry's contributions to the business.
He just Larry's was. Larry's journey was
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just such a cool journey in that
he got to wrestle a full, full
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career, mostly staying near home,
which he wanted to, and stayed involved
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in wrestling, going to get togethers, including the Progressing Hall of Fame every
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July in Waterloo, Iowa. It's
just not going to feel the same at
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the Progressing Hall of Fame Weekend,
the tregos says, Progressing Hall of Fame
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Weekend in Waterloo, Iowa without Larry
there at the banquet and taking part in
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different panel discussions. So not only
did I include my conversation with George Shire
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about Larry's career, but that was
sort of a long introduction and a thorough
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introduction to an interview that I conducted
with Larry at the Prosing Hall of Fame
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last July. Along with Progressing Towards
senior columnist Bruce Mitchell. We interviewed both
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Larry the Axending Andikita Koloff together and
it was so funny like that. I
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don't I'm never I mean, I
don't conduct many podcasts or interviews in front
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of live audiences, but Larry had
people laughing constantly. You will laugh listening
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to it. So if you missed
yesterday's downloader haven't gotten to it yet,
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be sure you make an appointment listening. I think a really interesting journey that
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Larry went on in the interview with
Larry that that follows is hilarious. Need
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00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:16.120
an extra dose of positivity in your
wrestling podcasts? Will come join me Alan
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00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:22.279
forel Over in the Progress Paradise at
Peterbo Torch vip as we mask on the
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00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.519
bright side of wrestling and focus on
some of the great matches and shows from
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00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.360
around the world, be it the
US, Japan, Europe or Mexico.
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00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.240
There's always a place for wrestlings past
in the Paradise too, and we've done
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00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:39.440
fun historical shows such as the We
Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of
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00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.799
Jusian Thunderliger and our eye was there
when shows where our guests will join me
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to talk about a classic bout that
they were in attendance for. We love
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00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.720
variety and you can expect lots of
it at the Prorest Paradise. Detailed pw
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00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.200
Torch VIP subscription information and a list
of all the VIP benefits is available at
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00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:03.840
pterwrew torch vip info dot com.
And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible
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00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:09.960
with popular podcast apps on iPhone and
Android devices, or you can stream them
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00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.360
directly from our ad free VIP mobile
site. See you in the Paradise.
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All right, So I want to
get back to Dave Leganta here and follow
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up with a question about a term, Dave that you used when talking about
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the British Bulldogs. Use the term
shine getting shine on a baby face.
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Just elaborate and what that is.
I think people hear that term and if
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they watched out of my kid matches
this weekend, what to look for and
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what do you mean by that?
And it's it's more, it's not even
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just a wrestling thing. It's there's
a there's a term in the movie.
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As I was telling you, I
just adopted a cat called save the cat
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at the beginning of a movie.
And I've talked about this book a lot.
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You have to do something in the
first two to five minutes of a
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movie, a story or match,
to make the audience go, that's my
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I love that guy. He just
pulled the cat out of the tree.
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So like they understood building in moments
in the match that made you really root
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for them, Like, so either
something cool, something that they like,
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something high flying, something without smart
at the heels early, so you knew
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right away that they were the guys
that you wanted to root for, and
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did something amazing spectacular, you know, and it's interesting to have great heels.
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You understood you can show your ass
early because you're gonna get that quote
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unquote heat later. And I've never
wrestled a match in my life, but
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I understand enough story to know if
I want somebody to root for me,
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I gotta do something to make them
care. And you know that was why
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this morning, like I was like, you know, he was the first
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baby Base ever cared for. And
I never understood why until obviously much later
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in my life. But they they
understood the psychology of the business to do
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that. And I asked that because
it isn't just about the crisp, hard
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hitting moves and then obviously the the
high flying, the innovative high flying for
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its era. That stood out about
them and it's it's how well rounded workers
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that they were. But yeah,
it is a remarkable book, Pure Dynamite,
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the Autobiography of Dynamite Kid Tom Billington. It's it's quite the read because
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he does not it was published back
in nineteen ninety nine, and he does
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not mask what he was like as
a person. He sort of makes a
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case for why he was the way
he was, but he's incredibly unapologetic about
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some It's a fascinating look behind the
scenes that at you know, when you
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know, complaining about physic man finding
docking them pay for things that they were
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doing, and the politics and the
personalities of rests at the time. It
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was a fascinating book. And I
guess when I think of it, I
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think of it the two words I
think of our blunt and unapologetic. When
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00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.399
it comes to his autobiography. It's
funny in the social media era, like
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to hear somebody sort of speak to
that level of to that level of the
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business at that way. So yeah, I thought it was, you know,
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probably somewhere in my stuff. I
don't even know where would be,
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but I'd love to read it again. Yeah, I've already got it pulled
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out to read over again. Okay, cool, Well, let let's introduce
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ourselves in the show and everything here. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
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Podcast and it is Interview Friday for
Friday, December seventh, twenty nineteen.
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My guest today is Dave Legana,
who is the vice president of Lightning Media
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and the NWA. Did I get
that right? Is it lightning Lightning one,
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Lightning one? Come on, shoot, yeah, at Lightning one.
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Now it's you know, and I
think you know, people wondered why we
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kept saying lighting one, and obviously
you know the work we're doing with the
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Ring of Honor, it just we
are. We're more than just the NWA.
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So absolutely so, talk a little
bit about your your background, your
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time in WWE, and what you've
done since then, and then we'll use
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that as sort of a launching point
for a variety a wide range of topics
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today. I joke with people recently
that. If you look at my resume,
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it reads in reverse. You know, I'm now working in the wrestling
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scene. But I started actually before
even worked at W. I worked in
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television production, you know, writing, you know, worked at an agency,
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worked on Friends when I was twenty
four years old, and everybody just
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freaked out that it was coming off
Netflix for about five minutes. And then,
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you know, as a writer's strike
came up in two thousand and one,
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I applied to work for W because
it was strike strike did the strike
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didn't affect it. So I went
to work at WB in two thousand and
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two, the same day the nWo
returned or debut in WW. Spent six
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years there with the lead writer,
head writer, whatever writer SmackDown for four
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of the six. I had spent
one year under Paul Hayman during the feigned
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Bronzed SmackDown six era, and I
was lee writer from two thousand and three
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to two thousand and six, had
the pleasure of shepherding the ECW two point
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zero after Hayman left. If you
see a theme here, and you know
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after a during my time at WE, I've been out of there now over
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ten years, and I've worked at
Ring of Honor TNA now the NWA and
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obviously helping with Ring of Honor again. I think that's hilarious. Your resumeacin
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reverse, like if you turn that
into someone like I think you got the
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dates and the bullet plans of reverse. But it's oesn't you worked on a
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top ten sitcom and now you're in
Bosier City, Louisiana, You know what
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I mean? Like, it's it's
funny when you look at a reverse.
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Now are you loving what you're doing? Now? Though? I mean this
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every cause and I say that,
and I'm setting up the question because you
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have a level of I mean not
that writing for friends wouldn't have been fun
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or being in WWE two in certain
ways what wasn't fun obviously, But there's
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a freedom, a creative freedom to
go along with the wisdom and experience that
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you have that has to be kind
of gratifying right now. Well, it's
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it's so interesting because you know the
era that I was working on sitcoms was
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the last golden era. I mean, like if you got on a sitcom
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and you wrote, for example,
and I made the joke about the green
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envelopes still showing up, which is
like sort of royalties. You know,
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working on stickcoms in the late nineties, if you if you created a Friends,
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you never had to work again.
Just people they just send money to
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your mailbox. I have. I
have about three grand show up every quarter
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for one episode of Friends that I
wrote. That's it, like like literally
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just to check. I don't have
to do anything. It's for imagine for
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a podcast that you recorded in nineteen
ninet nine, someone just sent you money,
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wad like that's just that was the
way it was. And obviously that's
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changed. You know, there's not
as many hit TV shows. Royalties are
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different. But as far as you
know, what I learned from all that,
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just media is shifted. Like tell
me the last great new sitcom everyone
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talks about it's Roseanne and the return
of Murphy Brown, because well there's there's
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like Shit's Creek and Kimmy Schmidt,
but they're not reaching the large audiences.
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It's it's it's it's very niche.
It's it's something you discover on Netflix and
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word of mouth spreads, or you
discover it because it's on the same network
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as Impact Wrestling and it's a Canadian
show that's quirky and you can't wait to
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tell your friends to watch it.
But on this, on this level,
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I mean, it's a yeah,
it's a Will and Grace read because that's
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the people that watch television. And
you know, it's it's so funny how
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things have shifted. And you know, I worked at w during the forgotten
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era. You know, people call
it the ruthless aggression er. It's the
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era they don't talk about, you
know what I mean, Like it's HLA,
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it's it's billion Chuck's wedding, it's
you know, and a lot.
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But it's also the last era they
made a star, you know, John
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Cena, Randy Yorton, brock Lesner, Dave Batista, that that era of
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which they don't pay attention to.
If you go back and look at what
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we did, we got a lot
done. But as far as the freedom
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all of that experience, Raw is
so written exactly the same way that it
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was in two thousand and two.
Vince mcman still approached it the same way
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and by the way it works for
him. He just he just catched out
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twenty two million dollars in stock so
he's doing pre okay, and I think
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as of right now, he's announcing
his football league, which I don't think
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anybody in the world would ever think
would come back and so but but what
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I've learned is is in a niche
world, I've been able to take that
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storytelling experience across very every company out
thing, and I get to have so
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much fun. The fact that,
you know, Billy and I were talking
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about this the other day, that
I get to go to these places and
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find the story. I don't have
to I don't have to pitch something to
292
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somebody, have someone changing because it
doesn't fit their agenda. We're legitimately trying
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something that is so outside the box
and I don't know, like, oh,
294
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it's so outside the box Dixie Carter
style. It's just everyone told us
295
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we were insane to try this this
way, and you know it's I think
296
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we're very happy with the progress we
have, and you know, a year
297
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and two months in, you know, we're we're just announced our second event.
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We've we've got a very healthy,
growing, you know, digital video
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business. And but we're also not
we're not saying we're a take over the
300
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world, and we're not saying we're
gonna challenge Visaman. We just want to
301
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make good content. Like if you
watch the Harley race piece that we put
302
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up yesterday. If you have any
touch of the business this, you know
303
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you will you will enjoy it and
and find something that you really enjoy.
304
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So so the last time we talked, there was rumblings of an n w
305
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:18.079
A studio show, What What What
update us on the aspirations in the in
306
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.319
the concrete progress of of the n
w A brand and where it fits in
307
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:27.640
now in the newer landscape with the
all Elite wrestling situation with r o H
308
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:32.599
signing some names this week but also
losing some names, and w w E
309
00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:37.920
with what they're doing. It's a
big the the uh w W signing,
310
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the the a lot of talent with
the new n X t u K project,
311
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and the sense that a lot of
the names UH aren't drawing up but
312
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they're being restricted in what they can
do. That the glory period of indie
313
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wrestling is going to have to refresh
itself a little bit with some of the
314
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:59.640
restrictions on the big names. UH
So, where we're at now, it's
315
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.400
funny infest future. I think we
talked in December or January of last year,
316
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:04.599
right and try remember when we talked, but that sounds right, yeah,
317
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:08.839
So, you know, we had
We've been a lot closer and a
318
00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.880
lot further away on a lot of
things, and we had, you know,
319
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we we we had a streaming situation
come up that would have we would
320
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:23.200
have been producing a weekly streaming show
and it didn't happen due to two different
321
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:29.200
mergers that changed management and all that
stuff. But what we got out of
322
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that was why do we need it? You know what I mean? Why?
323
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.400
What? What does having more equal
more? I mean there's plenty.
324
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:37.599
I mean literally, I think right
now it's Wednesday, isn't ww right?
325
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:44.160
The wuks on There's only so much
that a certain niche of the audience can
326
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:48.640
watch, and it seems it's very
focused down on that. What we're trying
327
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.160
to approach and what we sort of
found as we did Ten Pounds of Gold
328
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.240
was how do we best tell the
strongest story and get a single idea over?
329
00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:59.039
And I know some people are like, well, you need to go
330
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:03.880
faster, I want to a tie
in Missouri middleweight tag team titles to come
331
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.319
back, and I always right back, why make a five minute video and
332
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:08.799
tell me why this means so much
to you? If you can't tell me,
333
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.039
then why should I put time,
energy and resources into it. But
334
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:15.880
that world title, I mean you
saw this year. I think from when
335
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.319
we talked. I remember year you
did an interview with all this before the
336
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:22.519
Aldest Crusade started, and to look
and where it went and all the people
337
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.839
he's faced and they all in situation
and then wa seventy and you know where
338
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:32.200
he's going now with it? You
know it's it's people really care about that
339
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:36.160
title. And then on a time
where I dare you to tell me another
340
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:40.920
championship that people actually care about,
so it doesn't exist. No, no,
341
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:45.119
it doesn't exist. So so that's
our point. You know, we
342
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.400
wanted to focus on that simple idea
because Billy and I don't need to be
343
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:53.359
as big as this. We have
no aspiration other than to just to build
344
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:59.319
out a business or a creative envelope
that allows us to do stuff that we
345
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.440
like. And I don't have to
I don't have to listen to John Gaborick
346
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.960
or Vince McMahon or Carrie Silkon,
and I love all of them. But
347
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:11.319
like everyone has their ideas, but
it comes down to the execution. And
348
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.680
obviously the execution that we've done in
the last year I think has shown path.
349
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.839
You can support us on Patreon and
get these shows with ads and plugs
350
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:23.319
remove, the weight Keller Prosing podcast, Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the
351
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:27.519
PW Torch daily cast throughout the week
with ads and plugs remove, plus a
352
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:33.279
few bonus VIP shows throughout the month
for just four dollars and ninety nine cents
353
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.359
a month. Check it out patreon
dot com slash PW torch vip. That's
354
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:42.119
Patreon dot com slash PW torch vip
and you can also upgrade to other tiers
355
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:51.920
and receive even more benefits through Patreon. So a year from now, this
356
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:53.039
is you know, the job interview
question, but where you're from now?
357
00:24:53.079 --> 00:25:00.680
Where is the NWA? Where do
you see yourself on the same path we're
358
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.200
on now? And I think that's
you know. And by the way,
359
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.200
you stopped me last year asking where
the revenue streams were and all this stuff.
360
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:12.000
We want to continue to build interest
in this brand, and every that
361
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.200
we get we try to do that. And in a time where three hours
362
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:21.720
of raw exist and like zombies,
everyone watches it waiting for that maybe two
363
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.200
minutes that you really enjoy, we
try to make sure that every minute of
364
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:29.119
our content that we put out you
enjoy, at least builds characters, doesn't
365
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:33.960
insult your intelligence, and also just
allows you to kind of feel something.
366
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:37.400
So our goal is to continue that
mission. So obviously we started with the
367
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.559
ten Pounds of Gold. You know, we brought the national title, which
368
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.599
I knew exactly how people were going
to react to, the as I call
369
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:49.039
it, the Seahorse title, you
know, the famed Detroit the Detroit Belt
370
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:53.359
that and the Atlantic US title that
we made, the national title which Willie
371
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:56.160
Mack has, and you know we're
going to ramp that up in the first
372
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:59.799
part of the next year. And
we have Jazz as our women's champion,
373
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:03.480
and you know, we're bringing back
the Crockett Cup, which I knew people
374
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.440
were going to react to. Here's
this tournament that happened three times and I
375
00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:11.240
think was only good ones, and
people still hold this feeling for it.
376
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.880
And it's like that when when when
Animal announced it, and I remember everyone
377
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.400
was freaking out about this weird tag
team thing we had announced. I knew
378
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:21.160
the end of the story. I
knew that we would announced this Crocket Cup
379
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:25.880
thing and everyone was going to lose
their mind. So like like That's what
380
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:27.240
I want to bring back, is
this feeling. And by the way,
381
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:32.039
most people that are watching wrestling now
weren't Eve gonna lie when the Crockett Cup
382
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.720
happened. Yeah, literally didn't know
what it was. But you know,
383
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:40.480
the idea works, and you know, and and again, as our our
384
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:45.839
demographics are twenty five to thirty five
mail, those are not people that were
385
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.000
WA fans in nineteen eighty six.
Yeah, so it shows that what we're
386
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:52.279
doing is at least attaching itself to
a new audience. What is it about
387
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:57.720
the NWA name that is attracting the
twenty five to thirty five year old male
388
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:03.400
or does it have to do with
the livery method that you're using to reignite
389
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:08.160
and stir intrist and revive the NWA
brand. Is it more that the medium
390
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:14.799
or the message. It's both.
It's a proven it's a proven mark that
391
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.160
you know works. And for example, Sears I think either is out of
392
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.440
business or going out of business.
Toys r Us went out of business.
393
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:29.680
But if toys r Us reopened tomorrow
with the proper business running it, you
394
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:32.279
know what I mean. Toys r
Us didn't go out of business because of
395
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.960
its bad branding. It went on
a business because the thing that people don't
396
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.440
really pay attention to they were when
they went from being a public company a
397
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:41.680
private company. They ended up having
to do a debt buyback, which I
398
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.039
know everybody just kind of tuned out
on that discussion, but you know,
399
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.519
they got themselves in a bad business
deal like some wrestling companies, and you
400
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.799
can't get out from that whole.
But the brand of Toys r Us is
401
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.279
very strong, just like the NWA. So if you're a new fan discovering
402
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.039
it, oh wait, I remember
that from watching the w network, you'll
403
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.160
chie'll check it out. And as
Billy and I looked at all the various
404
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.200
brands that were available or starting a
new one, starting a brand from scratch
405
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.720
and coming up with a name,
it's really hard because you have to put
406
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.759
something in someone's mind and have it
be repetitive. Think about wrestling brands that
407
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:21.960
have launched since when Since in the
mid nineties, If had WCW stuck,
408
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.640
Smoky Mountain went out of business,
ECW still has a strong brand value.
409
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:33.480
Can Ring of Honor? That's it? Name another brand that has reached sort
410
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.599
of a critical mass and stuck with
the audience. That's where that's where we
411
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.240
think there's a value of the brand, and I think fans new fans are
412
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.559
discovering it, being able to dive
into history and also coming along on the
413
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.440
ride on the front end. So
you brought it up, not me,
414
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:56.480
the monetizing you you are not focused
on that. But you want to build
415
00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:02.519
the brand? Is it? What's
what's the motivation is it? Is it?
416
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.160
Do you consider it more hobby or
do you consider it let's set ourself,
417
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:11.160
No, you do. We set
ourselves up for an opportunity later to
418
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.039
amplify the brand once we rebuild that
that awareness for it. Is it something
419
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:21.200
in between like how you're running some
shows. So you reacted to the term
420
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:27.839
hobby, but it's not the primary
It's not going to be the primary brand
421
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.000
in professional wrestling, and that's not
what you're aspiring to make it. I
422
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.960
don't think there's anything wrong with that. But do you want to be profitable?
423
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.200
Do you want to add to your
nest egg? Do you want to
424
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.200
give Billy a return on his investment? Is that? Is that a very
425
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.480
hard, hard goal? Also over
the next few years. No, if
426
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:52.160
I told you what we spent year
one y actual profit and loss ww travel
427
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:56.920
for a top talent for one month
is more, yeah so so, And
428
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.839
just think about everything, all the
content got my salary, all this,
429
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.599
all the talent pay days, but
all the smart deals we made in the
430
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:11.119
first year to get to go to
China and get get the first NBA title
431
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:15.519
match in China, and it not
cost us really anything except the partnership that
432
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.759
you know, it's just being smart
with the deals you make to build a
433
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.440
brand. And you know, we
didn't sell a T shirt until June first.
434
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.640
We only did that because of the
all incests. We don't want to
435
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.920
have, like everybody else, our
handout because we have a budget that I
436
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.240
know the number that we can spend
every year, and I was way under
437
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.519
year one. Because everybody looks at
the new rich guy in the business and
438
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:42.319
go, let's milk that money.
Guy. Happens every time, literally every
439
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.279
time everybody runs up and goes,
now, don't listen to that guy.
440
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.920
I'm the guy, and pay me
six figures and I'll be able to get
441
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:55.839
you there, brother, And that's
what happens. And so I am very
442
00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:00.440
frugal, fickle, as our good
friend and O'Brien said last night out what
443
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.640
we spend money run you mean way
back on Tuesday Night earlier this week.
444
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:08.599
Yes, yes, and and like
like that's been very important because literally,
445
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:14.960
I shoot, I edit, I
like I do the audio of ninety five
446
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.119
percent of our content. Why because
I'm a perfectionist. No, because I
447
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.000
want that money to go to work
for us in other places. And I've
448
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.400
I've found a way which, by
the way, on YouTube you can learn
449
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.359
all the same stuff that I've learned
the last three years, because I figured
450
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.839
out three years ago there are only
so many writing jobs and in reality you
451
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.000
don't have as much control. And
for us to build out a series like
452
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:40.759
ten Pounds of Gold, for Ring
of Honor to come to us and say,
453
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:44.119
hey, can you do that for
us? Yeah, and so we're
454
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.200
like that to me is a path
forward. And by the way, it's
455
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.279
the way the media is going.
You know, more people are creating media
456
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:53.519
for themselves and driving costs down because
guess what, it's what you need to
457
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:59.000
do the old running a business like
nineteen ninety nine in twenty eighteen is not
458
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.279
the way to do it. And
two hours on a cable network if they're
459
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.599
paying you for it, but it
just it's a dream scenario that even those
460
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:13.160
networks go, what are we doing
for that money? So that's the interesting
461
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:17.240
part. Yeah, So let's explore
the where the NWA fits in a relative
462
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:22.240
to ro OH now that you are
working with them, to talk about how
463
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:28.279
the dynamic with our or the relationship
with our OH came to be and what
464
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.640
you want where you want to take
that and why you think it's a good
465
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.759
partnership. We've had a I mean
I've had a relationship with Ring of Honor
466
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.400
since almost ten years. I started
Ring of Honor in February two thousand and
467
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:43.519
nine, actually at Leap Day I
believe was my first day Ring of Honor.
468
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.039
And I've always had a good relationship
with Kerry Soaken and then obviously now
469
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:52.319
with Joe co Coff. Joe told
me when I decided to go to our
470
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.000
friend's TNA Impact Wrestling, he goes, You're gonna have the greatest business experience
471
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.240
of your life. Business lesson like
the MBA, and boy did I get
472
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:04.039
one. So when so when our
time at TEENA ended, you know,
473
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.640
Joe was like, come meet with
us and we Billy and I met with
474
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.319
Joe and Greg and pitched this as
a back model to them, we want
475
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.720
to help get talent over build content
and that at the time, they're like,
476
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.039
okay, let's think about it.
You know, time went by,
477
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:22.000
and obviously our our all in partnership
with Cody and you know, the creative
478
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.880
we did for them led to more
opportunities with with Ring of Honor, and
479
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:30.920
obviously Joe was very appreciative of everything
we did for the talents he had under
480
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.519
contract or still has under contract,
and you know, when the opportunity came
481
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.200
up and we said, we'd love
to do more, you know, Final
482
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.720
Battle was the perfect first start,
and all that content was shot, you
483
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.759
know, besides the matches they shot, was all shot in two or three
484
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.599
shows that I went to. And
just like I did ten Pounds, I
485
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:51.359
sat people down and just and here's
the difference. Just talked like I talked
486
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.279
to Jay Lethal. That's Jay Lethal's
real feelings about things. So like,
487
00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:00.720
it's really cool to let these stories
unfold in a very real you know,
488
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.240
Chris Daniels, the interview Chris Daniels
did in I think it's the second episode
489
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.400
of The Pinnacle, it's a very
real thing. What if his Ring of
490
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.599
Honor time ends? You know,
like what if what does What does Bully
491
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.159
Ray really see in the business?
Like, these are real stories and they're
492
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.440
not sort of manufactured. I guess
they are manufactured, but they're not fake
493
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:23.000
if you can understand that they're grounded
in real the real lives of the people
494
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:27.360
you're talking to. I always said
that the closer you are to reality,
495
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:36.000
the better the fiction. In twenty
twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system
496
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:40.440
and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight
497
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:45.000
Years Back, we'll be taking a
weekly look at this page in NXT's early
498
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:51.960
history. Join Kelly Wells and me
Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday
499
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.800
as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and
500
00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:05.639
why they did or didn't work out
exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. So
501
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:07.880
with uh, when you when you
look at what you're doing for Ring of
502
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.639
Honor, what you've done for the
NWA in those videos. Let me bring
503
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:15.760
up WWE and what when you watch
the product and I don't know how much
504
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:21.159
of their current product you're watching,
but even going back to the Ruthless Aggression
505
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.599
era, what could WWE when you
watch the show. What frustrates you as
506
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:30.760
somebody who just touted what you just
did with Jay leith Older Christopher Daniels,
507
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.159
What is WWE doing well that you
go, all right, yeah, I
508
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:37.719
like what they're doing here. And
by contrast, what gaping holes or critiques
509
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:42.239
do you have of their character development
where you think they're missing out on what
510
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:46.400
would connect their wrestlers to today's fans. It's hard to say, because again
511
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.519
I will, I will bouch their
business that they are and they just signed
512
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:53.079
a five billion dollars combined TV deal, right, you know what I mean?
513
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.320
Like you know somebody, somebody thinks
they're doing something. Well, you
514
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.239
know, McDonald's doesn't sell the best
hamburger. They sell the most hamburgers,
515
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:06.599
well not even the most hamburgers.
They've innovated to create the best service.
516
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:07.920
I just went to a couple of
McDonald's, and I don't the last time
517
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:12.239
you went with McDonald's. They've basically
gotten rid of the cashiers because they go
518
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.280
wait people rather. They actually find
that people order more when they use those
519
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.719
those kiosks, and they don't want
to deal with the dumb kid gets their
520
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.360
order wrong. But that's but speed
and service is what's there. WWE has
521
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:28.079
cornered the market on speed and service, meaning they can put a show up
522
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:31.199
and stream it on their network anytime. They have all this time on WTV,
523
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:37.000
like on all these networks, they
have built a machine that is impenetrable.
524
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.639
People have tried for thirty years to
take the Death Star down and not
525
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:44.159
realizing that they you don't have to
take them down, you just have to
526
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:46.400
oh. Exist. So what they
do well is they have built a They've
527
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:51.280
really built a business that again this
time last year their stock was what thirty
528
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:53.000
six dollars, you know, even
though it's come down from the near one
529
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:58.440
hundred dollars, They've built a really
strong business. And I think I think
530
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.079
more time is spent arguably over the
booking that it is the actual business.
531
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:07.559
And yes, do I sit and
watch three hours? No, I can't.
532
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.280
It just doesn't appeal to me because
we live in a world where That's
533
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:13.159
why I said, the show is
written like it's two thousand and two.
534
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:16.280
There's nothing wrong with how it's written, per se. What's wrong is is
535
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:20.480
that if you don't like a segment, you don't even flip anymore. Either
536
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.039
leave it on or you go watch
a five minute YouTube video or you know
537
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:27.920
what, I'll watch clips on YouTube
later. There's no urgency to the content.
538
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.840
There's no you can taste, will
say otherwise, you know, is
539
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.840
there anything to that content that really
makes you go I gotta tune in on
540
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:39.760
Monday night and find out from like
turning the page of a book. I
541
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.079
don't think it does. But also, their business doesn't seem to be predicated
542
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:50.000
on it long run, so much
of what they earn is coming now from
543
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:53.320
the Fox and NBC Universal TV deals. That's actually currently true with the existing
544
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:57.320
deal, which was a big step
up, and it's exponentially so next fall,
545
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.000
starting next fall, So you can
say, well, they don't need
546
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.719
to worry about it for years,
but there is there going to be another
547
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.880
what's your prediction as a student of
this industry and a participant in it?
548
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.800
Is there another TV deal or in
a few years? Are things so different?
549
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.679
It's a completely different playing field because
I look at a one point six
550
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:17.199
to one raw rating and I look
at a one point nine something year ago
551
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:21.719
in a two point wait two years
ago, and you kind of wonder,
552
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.719
when does this stop? How who
is going to be left? Who's young
553
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:30.360
who's still sitting down to watch a
live wrestling show? And is it as
554
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:35.920
inevitable as maybe you can make a
case it is in today's media landscape.
555
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:38.559
Is it really that inevitable that that
is going to go away? Or should
556
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.159
WWE be doing a better job?
And if they did a better job,
557
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:45.400
would the ratings be on the uptick
like they are in the NFL this year
558
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:50.159
compared to a year ago? Is
I guess I say this question with a
559
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:52.519
little bias, which is I think
a better product is not necessarily going to
560
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:59.400
be a victim to declining sharp declines
in people wanting to sit down and watch
561
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:04.000
something really cool and compelling that they're
addicted to live every Monday or Tuesday night.
562
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:07.599
If the product's better, well,
and there's a they're in the volume
563
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:12.880
business. There's an equation that WWE
does on volume. It's why literally there's
564
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:16.239
so much content because they again they
get in a bad business discussions. They've
565
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:21.679
gotten down to the point where they
spend X number of dollars per minute of
566
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.840
content. Literally, that's that they're
in the content business. And yes,
567
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.599
as long as people still watch the
product, as long as people still attention
568
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.320
that they don't care if you like
it or not. They just want your
569
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:37.760
attention. We're in an attention based
business. It's why social media people.
570
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.920
That's like saying troll ratings are down. Trolls just want attention. They want
571
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:45.679
your attention on their product. And
if you if you stop watching, which
572
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:49.400
I think some people have, but
the good part for them is you can
573
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.079
come back in any you know how
you come back now, You don't got
574
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:55.159
to wait till Monday. You go
into the Google machine and you type WWE
575
00:39:55.480 --> 00:40:00.000
and it pops up. You know, like like the ratings discussion. Yeah,
576
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:05.079
some people say, oh, seven
point four rating in nineteen ninety nine.
577
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.719
Yeah, but well, how many
households was it? How many viewers
578
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.880
was it? I don't even remember
what it was like eight million, right,
579
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:15.599
six million? Yeah? So okay, so rawst two million. So
580
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:21.079
the ratings are what too. So
the drop is not in the ratings number
581
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:24.079
of changes, but the viewers are
definitely less. But also there's so many
582
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:28.760
more choices. When's the last time
you sat down and watch a sitcom live?
583
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.599
Yeah that's been a lot. Yeah, So I mean, like how
584
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:37.519
you watch television in nineteen ninety nine
is vastly day but here but wouldn't you
585
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.159
say a year ago rating and a
two years ago rating is more relevant.
586
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:44.239
I agree with you the comparisons to
the late nineties, there's just too many
587
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.960
caveats. So a rating is a
percentage of people who have cable, who
588
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.719
have access to the show, who
are choosing to watch it, And that's
589
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:54.079
down twenty percent from two years ago, ten percent of a year ago.
590
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:58.599
Yeah. But by the way,
and yes, the NFL peaked back up,
591
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:01.239
but also the NFL one through that
last year with all the stuff with
592
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:05.360
Trump and all that stuff. Like
and by the way, I watched a
593
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:07.400
lot less NFL this year. I
don't know why, just maybe because I'm
594
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:12.239
a little a hair busier, you
know, it's and also my team won
595
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:15.199
the Super Bowl, so like,
so I told Jason Powell, I'm good.
596
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:16.639
After they beat the crap out of
the Vikings in the championship game,
597
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:20.760
I don't have to watch anything anything. Sorry, what did what did I
598
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:27.400
do? But as far as like, you know, people's attention matters.
599
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.679
And but also now we're so niched
where there are people that are way more
600
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:37.079
famous than Brad Pitt, who have
millions of subscribers on YouTube and Instagram that
601
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.400
generate a lot more money than even
Brad Pitt movies, and you wonder what
602
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:45.800
they're not on television. What I'm
saying is is that the metrics comte If
603
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:47.719
you ask ten year olds today,
would you do you want to be a
604
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:53.000
YouTube star or do you want to
be on the Tonight Show someday? Ninety
605
00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.280
nine point five percent are going to
say they want to be a YouTube star,
606
00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:01.239
not someday, what's the Tonight Show? That's exactly, and so you
607
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:07.039
holding onto a nothing you but us
in general holding on to this idea of
608
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.079
well, man, I want to
do stand up on the Tonight Show.
609
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:14.039
It's different now, the fact that
the fact that I can go out and
610
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.360
shoot a video today, turn it
around and put it online and have an
611
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:20.199
infinite number of people watch it,
and it's up to me if it's good
612
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.840
or not. So that's I don't
worry about what w does because they they
613
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:27.679
they have their model, they have
they have their system. We're trying to
614
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:32.360
disrupt a system that drastically needs it
because you have a bunch of carnies still
615
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:38.119
executing the same tricks that they pulled
years ago on people in the hopes that
616
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:42.440
they can just get paid. We're
worried about an audience. We're worried about
617
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.400
building an audience. And by the
way, lapsed fans they still care when
618
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:51.400
when when when we have people come, man, that belt always meant the
619
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:52.719
world of me and seeing what you
guys do to me. And some of
620
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:57.159
it could be fluff, but I
take them at their at their face value
621
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.360
of what they really feel about what
we're doing and how it matches and maps
622
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:05.599
what they really like. And again, as long as I'm not hemorrhaging millions
623
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:07.760
of dollars, which I'm not even
one one hundredth them close to, you
624
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:12.360
know, we're good with our path
moving forward and everybody. I can't worry
625
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.960
about anybody else. And that's the
problem is a lot of people worry about
626
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.199
other people's problems, is they're taking
care of their own. I'm good with
627
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.639
our problems. I love them.
I invite you to email the show with
628
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:27.360
feedback or questions or comments. That
email address is Wade Keller Podcast at ptwtorch
629
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.719
dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at
PW torch dot com. Also welcome your
630
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:36.000
feedback on Twitter. You can follow
us on Twitter at PW torch and follow
631
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:39.960
me at the Wade Keller. That's
at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.
632
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:47.280
You talk about WW being in a
good spot because of their their TV
633
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:53.400
deals, and they've got this kind
of baked in subscribership with the network to
634
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:59.960
some degree. But I still I
push back a little bit on the note
635
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:05.440
that they don't and I'm oversimplifying this
that they only care if people are paying
636
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:07.159
attention to them, but they don't
care if people don't like the product.
637
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:12.719
I think a year ago there were
one hundred thousand people who didn't like the
638
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:15.920
product, who aren't watching anymore because
they got tired of watching a product they
639
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:19.960
didn't like. A year ago,
WB was celebrating, Hey, they're complaining
640
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.559
about us, so that means we've
got their attention, and today they're not
641
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:27.679
supporting them in any way financially.
Two years ago, there were hundreds of
642
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.840
thousands of people who were watching and
weren't happy with what they were seeing,
643
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:35.079
but they were paying attention. And
now they're not paying attention. And so
644
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.920
if we get hung up on well
compared to the Monday at War era and
645
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:42.719
the cable and there wasn't YouTube,
I think that's distracting from the fact that
646
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:49.920
WWE is rapidly driving people away who
want to like professional wrestling live with the
647
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.320
big budget and big stars. They're
driving them. They're not driving them just
648
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:58.000
to YouTube. And if they are, that's a problem because there's Fox and
649
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.280
NBCUniversal did not pay for you two
views. They paid for WWE two be
650
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:07.719
far in a way the top rest
of the far and away the top show
651
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.280
on cable or on broadcast on the
nights that they're running the show. They
652
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:14.360
paid big money because they want people
to watch live. That was the whole
653
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:16.920
predicate of why ww could command this
kind of TV deal. It seems like
654
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:22.519
WWE is doing a bad job at
the business that they're actually in that has
655
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:27.679
led to their stock price doubling.
If people are leaving the very medium that's
656
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:30.960
bringing them in this record revenue,
you and I are not going to solve
657
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:36.079
this right like the like, the
best way for me to say it is
658
00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:38.519
is like it's working for them,
and I don't like to what I don't
659
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:44.000
folk. It's trying to fix a
ship that's sailing perfectly, and I understand
660
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:46.800
that you could sail in a different
way, but for for them it works.
661
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:51.480
And by the way, Vince's announcing
a football league in towns and all
662
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.239
this stuff. He he don't worried
about me, you know what I mean?
663
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:58.559
Like, And my point is is, like I don't. I don't
664
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.159
even know. I can't even metric
if people, I mean, yes,
665
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:04.840
people are leaving. But also tell
me the last time the Nilsen ratings were
666
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:07.119
properly audited. Do you know what
I mean? Was as I mean,
667
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:10.400
here's somebody who did the Niels Yeah, I don't know. I don't,
668
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:14.800
but it's but I'm bringing it up
being that like it's it is a metric.
669
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.679
It is one of one hundred different
metrics. Now what I'm saying is
670
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.039
is their business is good. Yes, do I like it? No,
671
00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:22.960
it's not. It's not for me. But what I'm saying is there's plenty
672
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.199
of products. If, for example, there are other products that I think
673
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.440
you would say are better. Right, do they have they figured their business
674
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:35.480
out to draw an audience? In
marketing and all that stuff? Nobody's got
675
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:39.119
the answer. Nobody does. And
that's my point is is all we can
676
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:42.840
do is focus on a product.
By the way, you have a product
677
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.320
you put out, and I'm sure
you look at your numbers on a weekly
678
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:46.679
basis. And I'm not gonna ask
you are you up or down? You
679
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:51.079
know? But that's the point is
is it's up to us as content creators
680
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.599
to create a product that people want
to watch. If W is not doing
681
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:58.840
it, then your business is ft, you know what I mean? Like
682
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.239
if if people went away and droves, you don't have a business. So
683
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:07.360
what I'm saying is I can't worry
about it. I guess if I had
684
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:13.199
a guaranteed two year deal with something
that was paying me x amount, that
685
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:16.000
made me very happy. But I'm
watching weekly numbers in year over year numbers
686
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:20.840
declined. I should I should not
think what I'm doing is working. What
687
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.079
I should think is financially, I'm
in good shape. But the thing that
688
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:28.280
got me here is sinking I'm doing
something wrong. I'm driving people away.
689
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:31.159
And that's where I think is I
think their live event business is in trouble.
690
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:35.199
But here's the thing. Anybody with
eyes knows why the live event business
691
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:37.199
in trouble. They're doing the same
live events that they did in nineteen eighty
692
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:42.800
five. Yeah, like that's why, Like our approach to live events is,
693
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.400
let's let's create an event that people
will be interested in singularly, let's
694
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:50.199
let's let's do one amitu at a
time, because I want to get I
695
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.960
want to get the product, right, I don't again, I don't know
696
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:55.239
how to fix their product because it
is this giant machine that you can't turn
697
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:59.400
very quickly. For example, i'll
give you, I'll give you a technology
698
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:02.880
thing and was founded in two thousand
and eight. It didn't really hit critical
699
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:07.440
mass until three years ago. Four
years ago. You know, the people
700
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:10.000
really understood and used it as an
alternative. They took their time, one
701
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:14.119
customer at a time. W B
has built all this customer base. And
702
00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:17.559
yeah, they'll they'll lose viewers,
they'll their their networks. Still they haven't
703
00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:22.079
had a large drop in their network, right. The network number has been
704
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:24.719
pretty solid, meaning it's not like, yeah, four hundred thousand viewers,
705
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:29.400
four hundred thousand paying customers have not
walked away from their network at one time,
706
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:31.519
right, correct, Yes, So
that's what I mean. Like to
707
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:36.119
me, that's that is as equal
a measure as ratings, because ratings are
708
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:37.880
people that don't pay for the product. So that's what I mean. They've
709
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:42.400
built a business that allows them to
go. Okay, Like for example,
710
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:46.119
if when if the people complained about
Roman reigns who now love them, you
711
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:50.440
know, because he's sick, you
know, like like, oh, I'm
712
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:54.119
canceling the network. Well, I
guarantee you the largest cancelation number was probably
713
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:58.360
two to five thousand on any one
day. I guarantee there was not one
714
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.639
hundred thousand. If if half of
those people would have canceled the day he
715
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.199
won the title, then they go, Okay, something has to change.
716
00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:08.159
We're losing that amount of revenue.
So I bring it all up because you
717
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:13.599
have to go upon the metric you
have and figure out what business works.
718
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:16.199
So that's the difference. Yeah,
I would say if they're down from a
719
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:20.360
two point oh way to one point
six to one over two years week week
720
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.119
over you know, same week two
years ago, that's fewer people who are
721
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:29.920
engaged enough to replace are who are
part of the replacement churn that's inevitable with
722
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.400
the network. And when we talk
about the network, you know, being
723
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:35.360
rock solid, there's big churn.
There's a lot of people who leave and
724
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:37.719
a lot of people who come back, and they do it seasonally, or
725
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:38.599
they do it because of the moods, or they do it because they saw
726
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:43.000
something on YouTube. Or heard something
from a friend. But when you don't,
727
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.480
when you have that many fewer people
watching the free product, I think
728
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:51.119
it is an ominous Bellweather sign that
it's going to be difficult to grow or
729
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:57.079
even more And it's by definition going
to be more difficult to replace the people
730
00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:59.599
who are dropping off, which is
just part of any I mean, go
731
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:01.000
back to me see subscriptions in the
sixties. You have people who drop off,
732
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:04.119
You got to find a way to
replace them. That's always been the
733
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.480
model. That's where to me,
if I'm vinced, I think the the
734
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:15.039
canary in the coal mine is still
free cable viewership because the numbers domestically are
735
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:21.400
big, and that's the most substantial
indicator of people being interested in your more
736
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.159
or less interested in your product than
one or two years ago. And I
737
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:29.880
don't know his philosophy or why he
does it. I don't. Again,
738
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.960
I haven't sat in the room with
the man for ten years. But it's
739
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.280
interesting when you think about, oh, this free show is terrible, but
740
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:38.440
the stuff on the network's good.
You know? Is he genuinely driving people
741
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:45.599
to spend money on it? And
again he's doing okay, I'm not worried
742
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.519
about him going hungry today, and
I'm worried about fans more. I mean,
743
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.639
I'm worried about the product that we
are watching today more than Vincent man
744
00:50:52.840 --> 00:51:00.400
keeping score with other billionaires. The
best way, if you don't like something,
745
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.800
don't pay attention to it. If
it angers you, if it's like
746
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:07.440
a relationship, if it's a person, get rid of it. And I'm
747
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:08.880
not telling people to stop watching w
B. But if you, if you
748
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:13.480
genuinely and understand your job like I
don't, I don't enjoy it. I
749
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:15.800
will come in and check it.
If I hear there's a good segment,
750
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:19.920
I'll pull it up on YouTube.
They're not getting three hours of my time.
751
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:22.480
Why because it doesn't fit in how
I live my life now. If
752
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:24.800
I have if I don't have the
Internet, or I don't have this,
753
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:29.920
it may fit in there. And
I think that's the that's the that's the
754
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.639
thing that every content provider, like, like, think about this. For
755
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:37.400
everyone who hates raw, how many
how many podcasts review it on a daily
756
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:40.199
a weekly basis one and one thank
you for listening, everybody, No,
757
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.679
go ahead, And that's what I
mean, like h and it's just like
758
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:49.239
as long as you give them attention. They will always be amplified. I'm
759
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:51.960
begging for attention, you know what
I mean. That's why I create content.
760
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:53.280
No, absolutely, you brought you
brought up the Eagles. I'll bring
761
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.400
up my my Timberwolves, who are
doing well since the Jimmy Butler trade.
762
00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:04.079
But before the Jimmy Butler trade is
seventy six or in Philadelphia, the fans
763
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.360
went through different stages. And I
was in the crowd and on the home
764
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.280
opener this year when Jimmy Butler's introduced
and he was booed, and you know,
765
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.880
he smiled to charge it off.
Then he got a pass in the
766
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:17.719
crowd boot him, and then he
shot the ball and the crowd boot him,
767
00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:22.719
and the and the attendance was good
that first night, and then and
768
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:25.960
then there were fewer boos because there
were fewer people in the seats as the
769
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.679
weeks progressed. So to me,
there's the stage as a fan with w
770
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:32.920
W. There's the time when fans
are complaining and that's when you need to
771
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:37.960
listen and change. And then there's
the stage where the fans have stopped paying
772
00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:39.800
attention and did what you just said, They just stopped paying attention. They
773
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.800
leave and that's when it might be
too late to turn things around. We
774
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:47.800
certainly saw that with WCW twenty years
ago. So that's where So but let
775
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:52.599
me shift the discussion to this Triple
H. You got physic man stelling out
776
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:55.440
stock, you have him announcing a
football league, and you have NXP doing
777
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:05.159
I think a great job with with
this third brand within WWE's ecosystem. I
778
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:08.519
think doing things a lot of things
right. And that's subjective, but it's
779
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:12.639
me saying it, so it's it's
inherently subjective. I'm but I think NXT
780
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:15.199
is doing a lot of things right
with the way that they produced the product.
781
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:22.039
What do you think is the chain
of command right now and the chance
782
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:29.199
that Triple H ends up sooner than
later becoming drastically more influential on the Rossmackdown,
783
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:36.400
Maine, Fox, NBC universal product. I think that I wish I
784
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:39.079
knew, because I could, I
could sell the secrets to all the people
785
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:44.039
that would know. But I don't
know. But I'm I'm smart enough to
786
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:47.440
know that that he is. He
looks at every entity that's drawing attention and
787
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:52.079
has signed them, and you know
he's building out. I mean, you
788
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:57.320
just look at the drastic change in
the UK business since they made those alignments
789
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:00.840
three years ago, the twenty sixteen
when that they made the progress and ICW
790
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:06.760
deals and you know, they have
figured out what they want to do.
791
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.880
And I think it's by the way, they should franchise the company and by
792
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:15.679
the way, there should be more
than one person in charge of a vision,
793
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:17.840
you know what I mean? And
I know nothing about Like they hired
794
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:22.920
JD and Jimmy from Impact. I
mean, they literally hired everyone from Impact
795
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:28.119
in twenty sixteen except Matt Conway abyss
Grade. Oh and uh, that's it.
796
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.639
They literally hired everyone from the company
that everyone used to hate and make
797
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:37.199
fun of. And now it's basically
the entire WWNXT system because they just they
798
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.239
understand that this is where go back
to the business discussion. The business and
799
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:45.800
creator are two separate businesses. And
now I enjoy NXT when I watch it.
800
00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:47.559
And by the way, I never
watched their weekly TV, but I'll
801
00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:52.639
watch every one of their specials.
So you know, you could say,
802
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:54.360
like, oh, their TV doesn't
engage me, It doesn't, it doesn't
803
00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:58.320
speak to me. But I enjoy
the hell out of their specials and that's
804
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:00.199
I think that's where the business is
going, if where life's going. How
805
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:05.440
often has people predicted that pay per
view was dead? Right, It's been
806
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.400
dead since two thousand and one,
two thousand and two, You know what
807
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:12.119
I mean, Like, if you
create something people want to watch, people
808
00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:15.760
will pay to see it. People
still go to movies, just they just
809
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:19.880
watch it differently. So what he's
doing is creating on a different brand.
810
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:23.719
I think it's shifted as far as
you know the NXT now that is compared
811
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:28.480
to three years ago at the first
Barclay show. I think it's just different.
812
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:30.440
It's not the same. It doesn't
have the same coolness that it had
813
00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:35.119
three years ago. But you could
also argue that's because the people that were
814
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:37.559
stars in the first round of NXT
have been made to not be stars on
815
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:42.679
the main roster. You can literally
count every person that was a star in
816
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.480
n XT, and their lack of
ascent in the w universe has hurt the
817
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:50.639
overall long term value of the NXC
brand. Yeah, you know what I
818
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:53.840
mean, Like you stop caring like, oh this, Hey, the last
819
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:57.719
ten guys would come up have not
made it, So why should I believe
820
00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.440
in the eleventh guy? You know
what I mean, so it just happens,
821
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:05.480
and I don't know the answer why
or what it is, but you
822
00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:08.760
know it's I think they've done a
very good job in building talent. I
823
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:12.519
think, you know, I think
they obviously look at their live events and
824
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:15.840
they I think they wanted to scale
bigger than they did, and I think
825
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.280
they don't draw as well they did
the first two years, and I think
826
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:23.079
that's their live event business, like
w's, needs to shift to the people
827
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:27.880
in Boser City need to know that
the show in Boser City matters on Boser
828
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:30.440
City because eventually it's just like,
Okay, I'll go, I'll go once
829
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:34.480
a year, like the circus.
Yeah, yeah, that is where they
830
00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:44.840
are. Every Sunday night, catch
Wrestling Night in America on PW Torchdailycast dot
831
00:56:44.920 --> 00:56:47.840
Com, hosted by me PW Torch
calumnist Greg Parks. Each week, I'll
832
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:51.800
welcome a co host from the Torch
family to discuss the big shows in pro
833
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:54.719
wrestling, taking your calls and emails, You can listen live most week's beginning
834
00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:59.760
at eight pm Eastern on Sunday nights
with a WWE or Impact pay per view
835
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:01.679
go on the air at the conclusion
of that pay per view. You can
836
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:05.960
listen live, but of course the
full show is available for download on demand
837
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:09.400
anytime shortly after it airs. Visit
PW torchdailycast dot com and click the live
838
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:14.000
stream link to find the next scheduled
live show link. Search PW torch and
839
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:17.440
Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to
subscribe Wrestling Night in America every Sunday,
840
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:35.239
PW Torchdailycast dot com. You mentioned, and I think I mentioned too,
841
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:42.679
the signing of top the top talent
in Europe to restrictive deals that could limit
842
00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:49.519
the growth or the profitability of indie
wrestling groups that had been leaning on some
843
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:55.199
of these top names. What is
this predatory? Is it absolutely fair game?
844
00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:59.000
Is it healthy because some of these
guys are making more money even though
845
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.480
they're wrestling lesson now freeze up a
new generation of younger guys to make a
846
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:05.599
name for themselves and the spots that
are opening up. What how do you
847
00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:12.360
frame what's happening here? It's free
market, like I love like I'm under
848
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:15.719
a deal with with with Billy here
and I'm not on the market. If
849
00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:19.039
you're on the market, you know
you have to make a decision. Everyone
850
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:21.679
who signed those deals, I don't
believe any of them were signed at gunpoint,
851
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:24.760
Like I think everybody that signed those
deals looked at the market and go,
852
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:30.519
well, I know what I made
last year and this contract is they're
853
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:34.719
no one's signing for less. I'll
just say that much and look at the
854
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.840
marketplace. And by the way,
the UK numbers show which way the business
855
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:43.760
is going, like like the ICW
ran the Hydro for the third time,
856
00:58:43.880 --> 00:58:46.400
right, and it was it was
drastic less than the first correct. The
857
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:51.360
business has shanged. So these talents
have to make a decision what's best for
858
00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:53.639
them, And you face a choice
of talent. Do I take the deal
859
00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:57.000
in front of me or do I
jump into the unknown like a lot of
860
00:58:57.079 --> 00:59:00.920
talents have in the last two years
and create for myself. So I don't
861
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:02.800
think it's predatory at all. I
think it's it's free market. You know.
862
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:07.400
We face a decision every time we
make a talent deal, is it
863
00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:09.519
what's it worth? How many dates? What's it worth? And then we
864
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:14.760
talk to them about the opportunity that
comes with it. So Vince McMahon told
865
00:59:14.840 --> 00:59:19.039
me that it was predatory of Ted
Turner to put Nitro on Monday Night's opposite
866
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:23.639
a raw. It was also free
market. Can it not be both or
867
00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:28.280
do you think just by definition that's
contradictory. I think it's contradictory. By
868
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:30.159
the way, did you see the
Burger King social media ad? Literally,
869
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:34.440
if you if you open the Burger
King app and and and I think it's
870
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.280
like a geo targeted thing, and
you literally go and order a whopper.
871
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:39.400
Basically, it's a gimmick. You
go to the Burger King and you or
872
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:44.000
you go to McDonald's and you open
the app like a check in at McDonald's,
873
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.519
you can get a whopper for a
penny. It's it's all about attention,
874
00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:52.119
and it's free market. This is
we're in the wild West, and
875
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.199
you know, whatever they want to
do, as long as they don't break
876
00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:57.719
contracts, do you know what I
mean? As long as as long as
877
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.920
somebody is not paying somebody to do
services while they're under contract to another company.
878
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:07.840
It's freaking So when when when you
see what's happening, do you think,
879
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:09.440
ah, this is good for any
wrestling It's you make the case,
880
01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:13.360
hey it's free market and I get
in that category. Okay, yeah,
881
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:15.159
pre market. It's it's the wrestlers
are making a decision they're not at gunpoint.
882
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:20.000
Why does it shake up the indie
scene though? How does it are?
883
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:24.199
Is there a ripple effect that's good
or bad or unknown? I think
884
01:00:24.199 --> 01:00:30.159
it's unknown because it's up to the
individual proprietors of those companies, meaning they
885
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:32.719
have to understand, like, I
know what our business is and and everybody's
886
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:37.360
got an opinion on my business,
but I know at least the path of
887
01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:40.719
building our business and building a base
that's engaged in our brand. And by
888
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:44.519
the way, this is why WWE
has always put brand in front of talent,
889
01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:49.360
because ultimately brand is what matters the
most. And Billy's talking about that
890
01:00:49.480 --> 01:00:52.880
not only with his music career,
but wrestling and everything. Why is this?
891
01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:55.880
Why is Kim Kardashian selling clothes?
I guarantee you it's not as good
892
01:00:55.920 --> 01:01:00.199
amount of clothes as name another closed
company, but she's selling it on brand.
893
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:06.159
So for these indie companies, if
Walter was the centerpiece of your business,
894
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:09.400
did you pay Walter the value of
his centerpiece of your business? And
895
01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:14.039
I don't know Walter or anyone's business. You put the money and effort into
896
01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:17.840
what's selling. And if Walter was
the centerpiece of any of these individual indie
897
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:22.880
companies, he would be compensated as
such. And I don't know any part
898
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:25.639
of these deals, but I'm just
saying, like, we have a commitment
899
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:29.039
to Nick all this, but our
brand is built not only around Nick all
900
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:31.440
This, but what he's doing to
build our brand in our championship is a
901
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:36.679
very synergistic relationship. And we made
a commitment to him to get him off
902
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:43.000
the market for X number of years
to do exactly that. What is this
903
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:45.679
the like, I'm trying to think, God, what do you think the
904
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:51.840
trajectory is for the all Elite or
the Elite wrestling cast, the crew,
905
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:55.719
Cody and the Bucks and Hangman Page
all part of that special weekend at all
906
01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:01.800
In And And how important was all
In in twenty eighteen now that we're a
907
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:07.119
couple months passed it, actually about
three months past it now, when we
908
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:14.039
look at what all In meant to
twenty eighteen and going into twenty nineteen,
909
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:17.679
how does it look now compared to
the night in the weekend when it was
910
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:23.039
taking place. I think the business
lessons of All In a lot took to
911
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:27.199
heart and understood why it worked,
and I think a lot have used it
912
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:32.039
as leverage for the changing market.
I think looking back, it showed that
913
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:37.840
a section of fans are willing to
travel by the way they travel yearly for
914
01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:43.960
Summer Slam WrestleMania, and you know, it was definitely a section. But
915
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:47.559
I would say that those people that
went to All In they were not exclusively
916
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:51.760
just All In fans, meaning they
were WW fans. They're people who go
917
01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.960
to WrestleMania. There are people that
travel to other independent shows. It wasn't
918
01:02:55.039 --> 01:02:59.840
like they had They weren't lapsed fans
who had never watched wrestling in ten years.
919
01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.800
And this is what drawn back.
They were people that felt engaged to
920
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:06.920
this. These guys and this idea
and the idea sold. No matches sold
921
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.920
tickets, you know what I mean? Not that the idea sold, the
922
01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:15.400
idea and the work that those guys
put in sold the tickets. Uh,
923
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:22.320
you know, we sold would matches. You know track record with these guys
924
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:27.199
that these will be good matches.
Yes, And what was what was the
925
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.480
biggest story point? What was the
moment that a lot of people remember coming
926
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:31.480
out of that show. We worked
really hard to make sure that the n
927
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:37.159
w A moment was was good for
everybody, and not only in leading into
928
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.440
it. We didn't. We didn't
just announce the match and go okay,
929
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.159
we're good, you know what I
mean, Like, we didn't do that.
930
01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:45.840
We made we put a lot way
more time and effort into it than
931
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:50.119
a lot of people do into literally
one match. And we put a lot
932
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:52.199
of time and effort coming out to
make sure that even if you didn't see
933
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:57.159
it, it felt important when everything
like it still dealt with reverence, like
934
01:03:57.440 --> 01:04:00.320
like, to me, the the
posities of that event, it was great
935
01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:03.719
moment. I feel like it wasn't
celebrated after. I feel like it was.
936
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:08.280
It happened, we did like it
was like it was okay, cool
937
01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:11.599
and waiting around for the next one, and I think the how the second
938
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:15.159
one sells and the third one will
tell you how well it did, And
939
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:18.840
I think, I think, I
think that the market will decide, Well,
940
01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:23.880
what do you think is the direction
of of all elite wrestling? They
941
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:28.679
have some trademarks you mentioned half hour
or so ago. You know, waiting
942
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:32.280
around for that big TV deal may
or may not be the right strategy.
943
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.360
You don't want to miss. You
put all your chips on that, But
944
01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:41.039
what what what's your what does your
intelligence tell you? In both both senses
945
01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:43.519
of the word you're, you're,
you're instinct in your gut, but also
946
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:46.800
what you're hearing on the street about
where Cody and the Bucks end up in
947
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:54.400
what the potential is for their brand
of wrestling in this marketplace to to have
948
01:04:55.159 --> 01:04:59.000
to land somewhere where it actually it's
not driving WW at a business. It's
949
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:01.280
not the New Monday nitrope by Ted
Turner, but it's something more than what
950
01:05:01.559 --> 01:05:05.320
RH has. The water level that
r H has reached. It ends up
951
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:12.039
maybe being closer to what impact was
at one point when people looked at them
952
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:17.000
as potentially a solid strong number two. I think the market decides I know
953
01:05:17.119 --> 01:05:23.039
nothing about what they're doing. No
discussions were not involved. I think they
954
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:26.880
have done a very good job getting
people very interested in it. And now
955
01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:30.039
it comes to day one, what
do they do? And then day two
956
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:32.800
and day three and day four and
day five. Yeah, meaning that these
957
01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:36.719
guys have to the thing that you
know and Ring of Honor has a very
958
01:05:36.800 --> 01:05:41.840
strong infrastructure. You may disagree with
their creative goes back to the w discussion.
959
01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:48.239
You don't understand not you again,
people don't understand the amount of decisions
960
01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:53.679
that make get made on a daily
basis just on travel, you know what
961
01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:58.119
I mean. There are hundreds to
thousands of decisions that get made when you're
962
01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:01.320
literally doing one show, let alone
launch a promotion, that have to be
963
01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:05.480
made, and you have to understand
it. If you haven't made those decisions
964
01:06:05.480 --> 01:06:09.239
in the past, you can make
mistakes. I made a lot of mistakes
965
01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:12.760
at seven the show that we've learned
from and adjust. You just have to
966
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:15.440
execute every day. So I don't
know what their plan is. I hope
967
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:21.199
they have a really strong business focused, profit focused, expense focused idea as
968
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:24.840
opposed to well, we're just gonna
get big, real fast and spend a
969
01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:28.000
lot of money. Give yourself a
reason to look forward to going to the
970
01:06:28.039 --> 01:06:32.880
mailbox each week with a PW Torch
newsletter paper copy. Subscription details at PW
971
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:36.840
torch dot com slash paper copy.
It's twelve pages every week, packed with
972
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:41.679
my TV reports, along with exclusive
features such as my cover story on the
973
01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:45.320
top story of the week, our
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974
01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:49.239
staff, exclusive feature length columns from
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975
01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:54.800
Alan Coonahan, and Zach Haydorn,
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976
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:59.800
and more. Pw Torch dot Com
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977
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:03.719
screen time and settle in every week
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978
01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:09.239
a Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy
edition in the year twenty twenty two.
979
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.559
You can get a full year of
home delivery for just ninety nine dollars,
980
01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:18.320
or try us for an eight week
trial subscription PW toorch dot com slash paper
981
01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:30.320
copy. Do you think from what
what you've observed with Cody and that crew
982
01:07:31.079 --> 01:07:38.199
in what they're doing, that ROH
should and does see them as a threat
983
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:41.920
to what they have established and all
the decisions that they've made to get to
984
01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:46.480
where they are or not it to
me, is there Root? You know,
985
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:49.360
it's like the old what there's not
room for both of us in this
986
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:53.360
town? Is there room for Roh
and what all of the wrestling is trying
987
01:07:53.400 --> 01:07:58.719
to do in terms of the fan
bases that the commonalities and overlap perhaps in
988
01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:01.159
what's appealing about the pro to a
certain type of fan of a certain demographic.
989
01:08:01.880 --> 01:08:03.480
Yeah, I mean I think there
is. I mean, unless they're
990
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:09.239
literally running the same exact product.
You know that the elite guys have run
991
01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:13.519
one show. They run a weekly
YouTube show you know until you know,
992
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:15.920
until you see sort of them with
their wings out, and a lot of
993
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:18.000
people ask the same thing, like
like, what are you guys going to
994
01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:21.800
be? The market decides if it
works. And that's what I mean about
995
01:08:23.319 --> 01:08:28.960
understanding what you're spending versus what you're
getting. It's finding all of these ideas
996
01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:31.359
and putting it together. I don't
know if everybody's worded or not. We
997
01:08:31.479 --> 01:08:34.840
haven't had the discussion. My discussion
with them is is what do you want
998
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:36.800
to execute? What do we need
to get done today? What do we
999
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:40.800
need to get done tomorrow? What's
you know you can't? This is what
1000
01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:44.600
you can't worry about other people.
The more time you spend on somebody else,
1001
01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:47.680
the less time you're spending on your
business. And you know, we've
1002
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:51.039
spent I don't even know how much
time talking about other people's businesses today instead
1003
01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:54.319
of mine, which I'm fine with. I'm happy to discuss it that.
1004
01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:57.159
I literally, this is probably the
most time and effort I put into anybody
1005
01:08:57.199 --> 01:09:00.039
else's business in probably a year.
I don't worry about it because it's their
1006
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:04.079
problem. I don't have to worry
about ra's ratings. How would I fix
1007
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:08.560
it. I don't know. I'd
find out what the I wonder if people
1008
01:09:08.560 --> 01:09:11.399
ever go what does the audience actually
want? And you talk to them?
1009
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:13.800
I always joke, Hey, my
dms are open. I talk to a
1010
01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:15.680
lot of people. I listen to
a lot of people, and they tell
1011
01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:18.760
me what they want. Most of
them want the Italian Missouri middleweight tag team
1012
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:23.000
titles. But you know those people, actually, I don't think actually exist,
1013
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:27.079
and I think it's a robot who's
screwing with me. But like I
1014
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:30.319
think, knowing what your audience and
your audience is exactly it's this amalgamation my
1015
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:34.039
favorite one. Somebody goes, everyone
thinks this sucks? Okay, have you
1016
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:39.359
spoke to everyone literally everyone? Or
you in hyperbole? Lin if you don't
1017
01:09:39.439 --> 01:09:42.920
like something that cool? Like for
me, I put all of our energy
1018
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.359
into what it's there. So I
don't know what they're going to do.
1019
01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:49.479
I don't worry about it. On
the larger landscape of professional wrestling as we
1020
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:53.640
as we look even ahead five years, and I think when you're in the
1021
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.920
business and when you're active in the
wrestling industry as you are, and you're
1022
01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:03.000
not in your part of you've been
part of the established media and mediums.
1023
01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:09.199
But you're also obviously immersed right now
in in the uh, the the newer
1024
01:10:09.439 --> 01:10:13.760
media that's gonna the YouTube especially,
it's gonna be attractive to the younger demographic.
1025
01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:17.279
Is wrestling destined to kind of have
the industry two paths, one that
1026
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:24.000
you're on where there's a distribution model
that is more niche and and and I
1027
01:10:24.039 --> 01:10:27.239
don't mean niche in any kind of
derogatory way, it's it's what the kids,
1028
01:10:27.560 --> 01:10:30.159
you know, literally the kids today. Uh, there are kids becoming
1029
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:34.159
famous because of niches on a large
on a large scale. But does it
1030
01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:40.159
get segmented and niche afied to the
point that there's all these different products where
1031
01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:43.920
they're all making they're making money,
they're reaching, they're reaching people. And
1032
01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:50.239
there's wrestlers and promoters and video editors
making a living off of brands that somebody
1033
01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:57.319
else might not even know exist,
who's watching another brand three doors down on
1034
01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:00.840
the same block because it's so segmented. Meanwhile, there's still one dominant brand
1035
01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:05.279
because I don't know, you know, we make television analogies, we make
1036
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:10.720
NFL analogies. Pro wrestling is still
unique in the sense that I think people
1037
01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:14.000
are willing to watch. It's probably
more like TV in the sense that you're
1038
01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:16.800
willing to watch a product that appeals
to you, regardless of if you're watching,
1039
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:21.199
quote, the best players in that
given sport, Like in the NFL,
1040
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:25.520
We're gonna find out with the XFL
if fans are willing to watch a
1041
01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:30.199
lot of players playing games where they
know, by definition they're not good enough
1042
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:33.760
to sit on the bench in the
NFL or be on the practice squad.
1043
01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:36.439
In ninety eight percent of the case, there's gonna be us. You know,
1044
01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:42.920
you know who is a Saint Louis
Ram quarterback Warner. There's gonna be
1045
01:11:43.039 --> 01:11:45.640
a Warner now in that. But
so yeah, talk about yeah that.
1046
01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:48.960
Where where do you think the trajectory
is five years from now? In the
1047
01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:56.840
way that wrestlers make their living and
promoters and video editors target audiences, I
1048
01:11:56.960 --> 01:12:02.079
think you have to be adjustable to
where audience's attention. The fact that you
1049
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:04.359
and I could sit here and draw
a T shirt and put it on sale
1050
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:10.520
and sell it and ship it tomorrow
shows a completely vastly different marketplace than existed
1051
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.159
two fives and twenty years ago.
The fact that you and I can make
1052
01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:17.000
You'll have a wrestling match somewhere and
shoot it, broadcast it live, and
1053
01:12:17.119 --> 01:12:20.800
if we want to charge somebody,
do it without having to have anything shows.
1054
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:27.079
The opportunity exists. If you're a
talent in twenty eighteen and your entire
1055
01:12:27.199 --> 01:12:30.680
marketing strategy is one hundred and forty
to two hundred and eighty characters, you're
1056
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:33.800
doing it wrong. They're like to
your point, there are kids who were
1057
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:38.119
famous who are doing it better than
you. They learned how to shoot.
1058
01:12:38.199 --> 01:12:41.079
I put a tweet out the other
day. By the way, you learned
1059
01:12:41.079 --> 01:12:45.920
how to fall down and have an
epic pro wrestling match. Shooting and editing
1060
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:48.119
is easy compared to it. If
you don't want to learn it, that's
1061
01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:51.039
fine. You'll get passed by by
the young bucks. And by the way,
1062
01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:56.039
Dalton Castle has a tremendously entertaining YouTube
show that nobody watches. It makes
1063
01:12:56.079 --> 01:12:59.760
me laugh every time I watch it
because he's a dynamic person. You can
1064
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.479
engage in audience at any time,
anywhere, and eventually they will pay to
1065
01:13:03.560 --> 01:13:06.920
come see you. That was the
success of all In. It wasn't the
1066
01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:12.319
great matches. It was that people
cared about these group of guys and wanted
1067
01:13:12.359 --> 01:13:15.920
to support them. I'm blown away
by the people that support us, the
1068
01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:19.720
fact that literally we had we had
a large travel people that traveled in for
1069
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:25.119
our first show, which you could
argue the matches weren't as star quality,
1070
01:13:25.199 --> 01:13:28.800
were laidens as all in, but
we still had people who cared and they
1071
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:30.359
were engaged. They cheered, they
bowed. It was not a Monday night
1072
01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:34.680
rack crap sat there waiting to be
entertained. So like for me, if
1073
01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:39.680
you the landscape change is based upon
how you engage your audience. If you
1074
01:13:39.880 --> 01:13:44.479
just make content to make money,
you're missing the understanding of what's really going
1075
01:13:44.520 --> 01:13:47.359
on. That's how you succeed in
a when you're smaller than we You have
1076
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:50.960
to make them feel something, which
goes back to our exact discussion on Dynamite
1077
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:54.680
Kid, how this whole thing started. If you're not feeling something, then
1078
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:58.560
why put my time, energy and
then our money into it. Why is
1079
01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:00.840
nobody watching Dalton Castle YouTube videos?
As you put it, Why is it?
1080
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:04.119
Why is it a few thousand?
Yeah, I don't know. I
1081
01:14:04.159 --> 01:14:08.159
think I think it's there's a lot
of things. I want to help him
1082
01:14:08.199 --> 01:14:12.600
because it's as it is, and
maybe the format is not right, but
1083
01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:15.159
I find him as an entertaining character. And by the way, or a
1084
01:14:15.159 --> 01:14:18.239
lot like Kevin Steen had a YouTube
show twenty eleven twenty twelve. It's not
1085
01:14:18.319 --> 01:14:21.640
like the Young Bucks figured out some
secret hidden formula and there was a mat
1086
01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:27.079
that they found, like fucking Sean
Mooney's pants on whatever that show. I
1087
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:30.039
just watched The Edge and Christian show, like there's a roadmap if you want
1088
01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:33.920
to learn how to engage an audience. And guess what I learned in every
1089
01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:38.560
episode of ten Pounds what people like
and what they don't like is I read
1090
01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:41.960
every comment like, Okay, people
are not responding to that. It's the
1091
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.399
people that go, no, it's
my way or the highway, and they're
1092
01:14:44.439 --> 01:14:45.680
going to force it down their throat. No, you have to adjust on
1093
01:14:45.760 --> 01:14:50.560
what the audience wants. What surprised
you most about the feedback since he started
1094
01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:55.960
doing ten pounds a goal, it's
it's it's it's literally these people that who
1095
01:14:56.119 --> 01:14:59.840
genuinely seem to have not watched wrestling
in twenty years that found it based upon
1096
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:03.720
something like it's it's really unique that
the people that speak up about what they
1097
01:15:03.760 --> 01:15:08.399
do and don't like, and and
it shows there are various niches. There
1098
01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:10.640
are people that love what the young
books do. There are people that love
1099
01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:15.680
WWE like, like, we just
had a twenty minute discussion about W's driving
1100
01:15:15.720 --> 01:15:19.359
off their audience, and yet there
are people passionately talking about why they love
1101
01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:24.159
this. Sasha Banks entering QNA session, do you know what I mean?
1102
01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:28.079
Like, there are vastly different audiences
that like vastly different things, and while
1103
01:15:28.119 --> 01:15:30.560
it may not appeal to you or
that guy, it might appeal to somebody,
1104
01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:34.960
and ultimately the market decides. So
that what I've learned is is that
1105
01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:40.319
you have EBB and flows and there's
there's there's life and lessons that you learn.
1106
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:45.159
Yeah, yeah, very good.
How can people find what? Let
1107
01:15:45.199 --> 01:15:49.199
me ask this, point people to
what you want them to see online to
1108
01:15:49.239 --> 01:15:53.239
get an example of the work that
you're most proud of right now. So
1109
01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:57.560
if you haven't watched the ROH Pinnacle
episodes, they're on the ROH YouTube channel,
1110
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:01.359
just search the Pinnacle And then if
you haven't watched ten Pounds of Goal,
1111
01:16:01.479 --> 01:16:04.239
the good part is there are forty
three of them, if not forty
1112
01:16:04.279 --> 01:16:08.479
two, I maybe have misnumbered somewhere
all on the line and I haven't figured
1113
01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:11.279
that out yet. Please help me
Internet, because you're very good at pointing
1114
01:16:11.359 --> 01:16:15.199
things out, you know. There. The Ten Pounds series was literally I
1115
01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:19.319
call it a time capsule, meaning
like when we look back ten years from
1116
01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:25.199
now what this NWA was. There
is literally a documentary being made at the
1117
01:16:25.239 --> 01:16:29.039
same time as we do it.
And you know the fact that Harley Race
1118
01:16:29.119 --> 01:16:32.479
and Nick all this cross paths for
the first time in ten fifteen years,
1119
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:38.119
you know, after Nick went to
travel too learned from him that exists now
1120
01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:40.880
and will exist forever in our time. Like basically this is a timeline.
1121
01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:44.760
So like, like, that's what
I like about Ten Pounds, where if
1122
01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:48.359
you've not watched one episode, you
can go start at one or twenty one
1123
01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:51.960
and feel like you had it missed
anything, or at least feel part of
1124
01:16:53.039 --> 01:16:56.760
the story. And it's just it's
I don't have two hours a week with
1125
01:16:56.840 --> 01:17:00.479
TV. But it would also be
Can you imagine if every independent wrestling company
1126
01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:03.000
had two hours of TV? It
would be like, it's just it's undaunting,
1127
01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:08.199
That's what I'm saying. The market
decides if people's time and effort are
1128
01:17:08.199 --> 01:17:10.439
worth it. Yeah, yeah,
very good. Well, Dave, it
1129
01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:13.960
was great catching up with you once
again. Today, I encourage people to
1130
01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:18.159
check out your work because I very
much admire your video editing skills and the
1131
01:17:18.199 --> 01:17:24.680
way that you tell stories. I
think there's a vibe that you get watching
1132
01:17:25.319 --> 01:17:30.039
your videos that I don't see produced
on other produced videos on YouTube. I
1133
01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:33.319
think you just do a fantastic job. And I've asked you questions not just
1134
01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:36.840
about what you're doing, about about
the larger landscape of wrestling, because I
1135
01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:41.800
know all the places you've been and
all the lessons you've learned in the insights
1136
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.640
that you have, and so I
very much appreciate what you're saying. There's
1137
01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:49.079
a lot of people immersed in wrestling
in different ways, and you've been so
1138
01:17:49.159 --> 01:17:56.520
many different places and are right now
involved in an aspect of wrestling that has
1139
01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:59.800
always been there, which is building
characters and telling stories. But you're doing
1140
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:06.520
it with some freedom and flexibility in
today's environment, with today's technology and distribution,
1141
01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:11.319
that I think nobody else can can
speak to like you. Ken Well,
1142
01:18:11.439 --> 01:18:14.000
Mike, you wade to appreciate it
absolutely. Thanks An, We'll talk
1143
01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:28.439
to you hopefully down the line.
A little bit longing for some nostalgia or
1144
01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:32.079
maybe you want to learn some wrestling
history, don't miss the Nineties Past cast.
1145
01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:36.399
Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily
Cast Feed. Alex and Patrick will
1146
01:18:36.439 --> 01:18:42.159
transport you thirty years into the past
by taking you through the Torch issue from
1147
01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:46.079
that very week. Follow news from
the WWF and WCW and all the happenings
1148
01:18:46.119 --> 01:18:50.640
from across the wrestling industry in real
time as The Torch reported it thirty years
1149
01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:56.479
ago. That's the Nineties Past Cast
every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast
1150
01:18:56.560 --> 01:19:16.199
Feed. For Saturday, December eighth, twenty eighteen, you're listening to the
1151
01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:19.840
PW Towards Live cast, and when
it's Saturday, you are listening to the
1152
01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:24.920
Deep Dive with rich Fan. I
am, of course rich Fan. I
1153
01:19:25.039 --> 01:19:30.000
apologize for the delayed. Technical difficulties
and forces outside of my control allowed us
1154
01:19:30.119 --> 01:19:33.079
to be a little bit delayed,
but we're still gonna have the same fun.
1155
01:19:33.640 --> 01:19:36.520
Over the next hour, we're gonna
be chatting with one of my favorite
1156
01:19:36.520 --> 01:19:39.560
people here at the Towards, Zach
Hey Dort, and we're gonna be talking
1157
01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:42.479
about wrestling entrances, how they affect
you, which you like, what you
1158
01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:45.319
don't like, what's too much,
what's not enough, And of course we
1159
01:19:45.439 --> 01:19:46.600
can't start this party if we don't
do it with you. So give us
1160
01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:49.600
a call area go five one five
six oh five nine three four five.
1161
01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:54.680
That's five one five, six oh
five nine three four five. So,
1162
01:19:55.720 --> 01:20:00.359
as I mentioned, thank you all
for allowing for this earlier time slot,
1163
01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:03.920
we moved back an hour. Part
forces out of my control, part keeping
1164
01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:09.039
my wife happy with endeavors outside of
the PW tors community, which I'm sure
1165
01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:13.359
some of you are more than happy
to understand. This week, I think
1166
01:20:13.600 --> 01:20:19.039
Daniel Brian's the new Daniel Brian.
I'm sorry. Machinations were very, very
1167
01:20:19.239 --> 01:20:21.920
very good, and I think it'll
tie into what Zach and I are going
1168
01:20:21.960 --> 01:20:27.399
to be talking about, because he's
obviously a person that pays attention to who
1169
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:30.960
and what he brings to the table
in every iteration of himself, and so
1170
01:20:31.199 --> 01:20:35.560
I'm looking forward to seeing what this
does. Now. The one thing from
1171
01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:41.600
an entrance standpoint, I'd like to
see is maybe moving away from his current
1172
01:20:41.680 --> 01:20:45.239
theme and into something a little either
darker or a little, i don't know,
1173
01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:51.600
a little bit more fun is what
you get with the yes chance and
1174
01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:56.680
the no chance and all that when
you hear his theme currently, I would
1175
01:20:56.760 --> 01:20:59.399
want it to be something where it's
kind of like Tamaso Champa where you don't
1176
01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:05.680
even have any quarter, you don't
have the ability to give them anything other
1177
01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:12.880
than derision and hate and scoring and
all that fun stuff. So ah,
1178
01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:15.399
yes, thank you for let me
see that right here. So without further
1179
01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:18.640
ado, let me bring on my
co host for this week. He is
1180
01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:24.239
himself a PW Torch host, Zach
Aton. Welcome back to the Deep Dives
1181
01:21:24.279 --> 01:21:27.680
Act. Hey, Rich, thanks
very much for having me. Really really
1182
01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:30.680
glad to be here. Man.
So before we get start, why don't
1183
01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:32.279
you tell folks about a little bit
about what you do with the torch and
1184
01:21:32.359 --> 01:21:38.079
that'll kind of tie into why I
wanted to do Infrances with you. Okay,
1185
01:21:38.239 --> 01:21:40.039
perfect, I appreciate it. Well, yeah, I wear a couple
1186
01:21:40.079 --> 01:21:45.560
different hats at the tours these days. You can check out my Alternative Perspective
1187
01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:49.600
Monday Night Raw Report live during Monday
Night Raw on pwtorch dot Com. It's
1188
01:21:49.840 --> 01:21:55.399
up there right next to Wade Kellers
and it's just me breaking down the show,
1189
01:21:55.560 --> 01:22:00.600
so following it live as it goes
on and providing analysis on all the
1190
01:22:00.640 --> 01:22:03.600
different matches of all different segments,
and you can catch a similar report of
1191
01:22:03.680 --> 01:22:06.960
mine for two of five Live as
well, So I cover two of five
1192
01:22:08.039 --> 01:22:11.920
Live for PW tors dot com and
a similar report later in the week,
1193
01:22:12.039 --> 01:22:16.039
usually on Thursdays or Fridays, and
the same kind of thing, just breaking
1194
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:20.399
down the show, analysis on the
segments, the storylines, booking matches,
1195
01:22:20.640 --> 01:22:26.880
all there at PW torch dot com. And then on Friday afternoons, my
1196
01:22:27.439 --> 01:22:31.920
VIP audio show drops for PW Torch
VIP members and the show is called on
1197
01:22:32.039 --> 01:22:38.319
the Canvas, and what I do
on that show is pick one current event
1198
01:22:38.439 --> 01:22:43.600
from the wrestling world, whether it's
from WWE or from NXT New Japan Ring
1199
01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:48.079
of Honor, and break that current
event down from an artistic angle. So
1200
01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:53.039
whether it's a match or a promo
or a best stage vignette, you know,
1201
01:22:53.119 --> 01:22:56.760
whatever, what have you. I
kind of leave storylines at the door,
1202
01:22:56.920 --> 01:23:00.039
I leave booking decisions at the door, and just look get the arts
1203
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:04.840
in the performance of that specific segment. So the show's called on the Canvas
1204
01:23:04.960 --> 01:23:12.960
and you can check it out as
a VIP member every Friday afternoon. Outstanding
1205
01:23:13.239 --> 01:23:15.760
and the reason I picked Zach,
as you can hear especially with On the
1206
01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:19.680
Canvas, is I love the way
he takes an alteur's eye to anything in
1207
01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:25.199
wrestling. So I've done theme music
before that was our year anniversary, but
1208
01:23:25.239 --> 01:23:30.119
I wanted to do entrances entirely because
I feel like that's something depending on the
1209
01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:34.319
person that either means a lot or
you can tell how little they themselves put
1210
01:23:34.399 --> 01:23:39.359
into it. And so I thought
that'd be a really good discussion. Oh
1211
01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:44.000
no, absolutely, I think I
really think there's a lot to discuss in
1212
01:23:44.119 --> 01:23:48.159
terms of pro wrestling entrances. So
happy to be here and look forward to
1213
01:23:48.239 --> 01:23:53.000
talking about it with you. So, without any further ado, let's start
1214
01:23:53.079 --> 01:23:57.760
with what makes to you a perfect
entrance? Is it long short, like
1215
01:23:58.119 --> 01:24:01.239
who currently and then we can kind
of bounce into people in history who currently
1216
01:24:01.319 --> 01:24:05.800
would be a person in the modern
WWE or anywhere in wrestling that stands out
1217
01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:11.399
as having a solid entrance in your
opinion. In my opinion, like the
1218
01:24:11.520 --> 01:24:18.039
best pro wrestling entrances have are authentic. They're authentic in terms of who the
1219
01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:25.479
wrestler is that's executing the entrance and
how that entrance plays into their their character.
1220
01:24:25.680 --> 01:24:28.720
So right now, if you had
to ask me who who has the
1221
01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:33.159
best entrance of the WWE two names
come to mind, one of which is
1222
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:40.159
AJ Styles and the other is Dean
Ambrose and and even Dean Ambrose inside of
1223
01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:45.239
his new newly found heel character.
But I'll talk about why from from each
1224
01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:51.399
perspective. AJ He's got a Christmas
to the entrance and he just has it.
1225
01:24:51.640 --> 01:24:56.399
It seems authentic. He seems like
if you just saw that guy on
1226
01:24:56.560 --> 01:25:00.359
the street, like he'd be acting
that way. He gets pump up as
1227
01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:03.119
he's walking down the ramp. He's
got his pose at the top to bring
1228
01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:05.960
the audience in with him. And
then when he gets into that ring,
1229
01:25:06.279 --> 01:25:11.359
he kind of does that shoot off
the off the ropes and uh just faces
1230
01:25:11.399 --> 01:25:14.479
the audience and hits that pose again. And I just I think it's in
1231
01:25:14.640 --> 01:25:18.600
line with who he's trying to convey
himself. As as the phenomenal AJ Styles,
1232
01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:24.479
he looks almost like a almost like
a superhero within the entrance on the
1233
01:25:24.560 --> 01:25:30.000
flip side, whereas AJ's is very
produced and Okay, I'm gonna hit this
1234
01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:31.640
post here and then I'm gonna walk
down the ramp and then I'm gonna get
1235
01:25:31.680 --> 01:25:35.119
in the ring. I'm gonna hit
the pose again, Like Dean Ambrose,
1236
01:25:35.279 --> 01:25:41.760
is authentic in a different way because
he's this unhinged lunatics guy. And for
1237
01:25:41.920 --> 01:25:45.640
his entrance, I don't I don't
know that you can pinpoint an entrance of
1238
01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:49.720
his that he's done the exact same
way throughout his time in WWE. There's
1239
01:25:49.720 --> 01:25:54.640
always little nuances, there's always little
intricacies to how he walks to the ring
1240
01:25:54.720 --> 01:25:58.079
and how he gets into the ring
once his entrance is over. And I
1241
01:25:58.159 --> 01:26:00.800
think that's right in line and austhemic
with who he is as a character and
1242
01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:05.720
who he's trying to be as an
act in WWE. So two proposites,
1243
01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:11.199
but two good examples of two different
entrances, and I think really really work
1244
01:26:11.920 --> 01:26:15.960
in today's w W excellent. And
for me, I would say, right
1245
01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:20.920
off the bat, I think uh
aj styles is a great one because I'm
1246
01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:26.479
as much a visual as I am
the audio. So I remember the rumble
1247
01:26:26.840 --> 01:26:30.399
and when it said I am and
then it said phenomenal, and everyone exploded
1248
01:26:30.439 --> 01:26:32.720
because you realize, yeah, he
did, it's him, he really is
1249
01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:36.159
here, and that just kind of
set the stage for what has now been
1250
01:26:36.199 --> 01:26:42.039
a really really strong entrance. Uh
yeah, oh go ahead, let me
1251
01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:44.039
let me just pig you back off
that. Yeah, real quick, real
1252
01:26:44.119 --> 01:26:47.119
quick. I think that's a really
good point. And I think you know,
1253
01:26:47.279 --> 01:26:51.079
aj he you know, he's the
cream of the crop and he he
1254
01:26:51.479 --> 01:26:56.680
really hits that. You know,
kind of go back and look at his
1255
01:26:56.840 --> 01:27:00.119
entrances when he's done kind of doing
his post at the beginning, he's not
1256
01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:03.239
like the I Am phenomenal words fully
on the screen like right behind him,
1257
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:06.279
and it is a heck of a
visual when he times it right out and
1258
01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:13.319
nine times out of ten, yeah, and it's so I mean everything from
1259
01:27:14.039 --> 01:27:17.239
the you know, he's practiced kind
of like the guys in football, like
1260
01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:20.720
the Nike style of his gloves,
how much he has to keep his one
1261
01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:25.920
hand of spirit so that the aka
is covered, how much he needs to
1262
01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:29.000
bounce off the rope, so he
kind of looses himself up a little bit.
1263
01:27:29.279 --> 01:27:32.199
You know, everything he does is
as my mom used to say,
1264
01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:36.920
he does it in excellence. And
so you don't care what his height is,
1265
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:40.479
you don't care what his weight is. He is larger than life.
1266
01:27:40.520 --> 01:27:44.119
And from that moment the music hits, you know, something's about the happen.
1267
01:27:44.199 --> 01:27:48.600
That's awesome totally. And he also
got he's got a you know intensity
1268
01:27:48.680 --> 01:27:53.399
to it too. Like I think, you know, you could talk about
1269
01:27:53.640 --> 01:27:57.960
other people's interests in WW these days, there's cool stuff behind it. I
1270
01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:01.520
think Charlotte is a good example where
she's doing some cool things that she's hitting
1271
01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:04.880
her spots, but I think she
lacks a little bit of intensity. When
1272
01:28:04.920 --> 01:28:08.920
AJ's doing his entrance, you know
that he's going to that ring to fight,
1273
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:12.000
whether it's to defend the title or
fight for the title. Like you
1274
01:28:12.079 --> 01:28:15.039
know, he's walking to that ring
to fight. He conveys that well within
1275
01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:19.319
the production that he's doing that is
his entrance. He's really got to figure
1276
01:28:19.319 --> 01:28:28.319
it out. You don't have to
wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post
1277
01:28:28.359 --> 01:28:30.319
show to find out what I thought
of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each
1278
01:28:30.359 --> 01:28:33.920
week, you can check out my
reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
1279
01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:40.159
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My
written report will tell you what's happening in
1280
01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:44.199
detail in case you missed the show, and it'll also analyze key segments and
1281
01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:47.640
give my random thoughts quips on what
I am watching as it airs. So
1282
01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:53.439
check it out every Monday night and
Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That
1283
01:28:53.520 --> 01:28:57.880
also applies to WWE pay perviews.
I cover those live at pw torch dot
1284
01:28:57.920 --> 01:29:00.119
com with a detailed written report with
Star Wars, and of course you can
1285
01:29:00.159 --> 01:29:04.880
find other TV reports from other contributors
to pw torch such as nxt roh,
1286
01:29:04.960 --> 01:29:10.199
Impact Wrestling and more. Check it
out pw torch dot com your first stop
1287
01:29:10.439 --> 01:29:25.680
for TV and pay per view written
reports. And for me, I look
1288
01:29:25.760 --> 01:29:30.439
at a person who had a decent
wrestling theme, had a decent entrance,
1289
01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:35.359
but then one dumb quirk of fate
has turned his theme into one of the
1290
01:29:35.479 --> 01:29:38.760
best and one of his entrances into
one of the best, and that's Seth
1291
01:29:38.840 --> 01:29:41.520
Rollins. I know you just mentioned
Dean Ambrose as far as person that does
1292
01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:45.239
too much, but with Seth,
as soon as you hear burn it Down,
1293
01:29:45.119 --> 01:29:50.479
everyone loses their minds and then that
that hard riff is easier to kind
1294
01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:55.800
of slam and bang your head into
as opposed to what it was just the
1295
01:29:55.960 --> 01:29:59.239
hard This isn't the shield, but
it's still going to be a banging riff
1296
01:29:59.680 --> 01:30:03.640
of years prior to that. It's
so funny that you bring up his entrance
1297
01:30:03.680 --> 01:30:09.520
because when that burn it Down part
got added into the music, I about
1298
01:30:09.640 --> 01:30:12.159
just lost my mind. I was
like, this is this is the worst
1299
01:30:12.199 --> 01:30:15.720
thing ever. It throws everything out
of whack and now here we are like
1300
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:18.079
one of the highlights, for better
or for worse. It's one of the
1301
01:30:18.159 --> 01:30:21.840
highlights of money night raw these these
days, because it's something that the crowd
1302
01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:26.399
knows is coming and they can scream
it at the top of their lungs and
1303
01:30:26.439 --> 01:30:29.000
then, like you said, they
can just get into that music more.
1304
01:30:29.680 --> 01:30:34.479
You were at WrestleMania thirty four this
year and I was with three casual fans
1305
01:30:34.760 --> 01:30:39.000
and they just thought that when Robin's
made his entrance and the entire you know,
1306
01:30:39.159 --> 01:30:42.600
eighty thousand people yelled burn it down, they thought that that was one
1307
01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:46.319
of the coolest moments of the night. Yeah, and you know, going
1308
01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:50.000
to WrestleMania thirty four and then after
this we could probably take some callers because
1309
01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:54.880
we can go all over the place
with this awesomeness. But I would say
1310
01:30:54.960 --> 01:31:00.119
he has a solid entrance historically overall. But his WrestleMania entrance was probably the
1311
01:31:00.199 --> 01:31:03.119
best one I've ever seen on television
and the best one I've ever seen live.
1312
01:31:03.319 --> 01:31:09.159
That's the Undertaker. I was sitting
in the hundred level and when you
1313
01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:13.439
had the visual of the graveyard and
the laser lights as you saw the tombstones
1314
01:31:13.479 --> 01:31:18.920
and him walking down amongst them,
that was like top level Hollywood. You
1315
01:31:19.119 --> 01:31:23.079
guys, knock this out of the
park. And he could still take it
1316
01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:26.560
at his pace and do everything he
normally does. But it took on another
1317
01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:30.399
set of another set of awesomeness in
the Layer, especially because it was a
1318
01:31:30.479 --> 01:31:35.439
quote unquote impromptu match with Sena.
Yeah, it sure did. And yeah,
1319
01:31:35.880 --> 01:31:42.119
I think can't you can't have a
pro wrestling interesting discussion without talking about
1320
01:31:42.159 --> 01:31:45.479
the Undertaker, right. I think
that's another great example of what I was
1321
01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:47.239
kind of talking about at the top
of the show, of just being authentic
1322
01:31:47.560 --> 01:31:54.199
with the character. And I you
know, Undertaker's probably the best example out
1323
01:31:54.239 --> 01:31:57.560
there period. I mean, he's
able to do the slow walk to the
1324
01:31:57.680 --> 01:32:01.359
ring, the dead Man gimmick he's
got, you know, at WrestleMania's he's
1325
01:32:01.439 --> 01:32:04.720
had the Druids with him. It's
dark, there's fire, there's you know,
1326
01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:10.600
lightning bolts, like it really it
fits it just it just fits well.
1327
01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:15.079
And it doesn't seem like it doesn't
seem like like ag styles and like
1328
01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:17.119
Ambrose. For me, it doesn't
seem like he's putting it on. It
1329
01:32:17.239 --> 01:32:21.039
seems like this that is him,
that is his character, and I think
1330
01:32:21.359 --> 01:32:26.840
that's what that's what makes it so
that that element of being genuine is what
1331
01:32:26.960 --> 01:32:30.680
makes it so effective. Absolutely.
So let's go to the calls. We
1332
01:32:30.760 --> 01:32:34.239
have a fine gentleman who I am
very happy to always talk with, mister
1333
01:32:34.279 --> 01:32:39.079
four seven eight himself. The thank
you for calling the deep do state it's
1334
01:32:39.079 --> 01:32:48.439
your name and where you're calling from? Oh, oh, Kylan. Is
1335
01:32:48.479 --> 01:32:51.680
this part of his entrance? I
think it might be. I'm gonna put
1336
01:32:51.720 --> 01:32:57.239
him back on hold because maybe he
just wasn't ready. That's fine, But
1337
01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:00.560
let's go back to the themes now. I talked about ones. I like.
1338
01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:03.640
One theme I don't like, or
entrance I don't necessarily like is one
1339
01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:06.880
you already mentioned, and I think
it's Charlotte. She does to me,
1340
01:33:08.560 --> 01:33:12.760
yea, she has a great legacy. It's kind of like I really enjoyed
1341
01:33:12.920 --> 01:33:18.079
when Curtis Axel shifted to the altered
version of his dad's theme song. So
1342
01:33:18.199 --> 01:33:20.680
you have the legacy, but it's
been tweaked a little bit. I thought
1343
01:33:20.720 --> 01:33:24.640
that was really cool. Same thing
with her having a version of her dad's
1344
01:33:24.640 --> 01:33:29.439
theme song. That's fine, but
you can do the flip, you can
1345
01:33:29.520 --> 01:33:34.079
do the split. I don't know
if you need both. Yeah, exactly
1346
01:33:34.239 --> 01:33:39.520
like it just hers to me.
I totally agree with you about the music,
1347
01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:43.680
by the way, I think her
music itself fits perfectly. But she
1348
01:33:44.520 --> 01:33:47.880
seems like when she's out there going
through the entrance, she's mentally trying to
1349
01:33:47.960 --> 01:33:50.680
remember, Okay, I have to
walk out here, and then I'm gonna
1350
01:33:50.680 --> 01:33:54.600
spin around and make eye contact here, and then I'm gonna walk down,
1351
01:33:55.359 --> 01:33:59.960
take off the cape coat rogue thing, and then I'm gonna do my flip.
1352
01:34:00.039 --> 01:34:01.840
But then I'm gonna roll into the
ring. And it's like there's no
1353
01:34:02.720 --> 01:34:06.840
emotion or kind of passion or feeling
that entrance. It's just her kind of
1354
01:34:06.960 --> 01:34:15.159
going through the steps almost like this
is a weird, a weird analogy.
1355
01:34:15.239 --> 01:34:18.920
But it's like, there's good dancers
out there right who can who can do
1356
01:34:19.079 --> 01:34:23.239
the dance moves, But you can
also tell the great dancers for the good
1357
01:34:23.279 --> 01:34:27.520
ones because they're actually feeling, feeling
the dance that they're that they're doing.
1358
01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:30.600
And I think that's the differentiation between
Charlotte here. I don't think she's it's
1359
01:34:30.720 --> 01:34:34.479
fine, but she's not in the
moment with the entrance. She's trying to
1360
01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:39.159
like remember the steps and make sure
she hits all her marks rather than be
1361
01:34:40.119 --> 01:34:45.479
authentic and genuine with with with what
she's doing. Yeah, I think it
1362
01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:49.119
just especially even if she just kept
the regal robe and she didn't do the
1363
01:34:49.159 --> 01:34:53.640
split or the flip and she just
mean mugged jet as you walk down the
1364
01:34:53.720 --> 01:34:56.840
ring as the queen, I'd be
fine with that. Yeah, yeah,
1365
01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:00.199
totally. And the other thing with
Charlotte too is it's like regardless, and
1366
01:35:00.359 --> 01:35:06.760
this could be another element to dive
deeper into punk. Definitely intended in a
1367
01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:11.680
little bit, but you know,
it seems like regardless of the situation she
1368
01:35:11.800 --> 01:35:17.399
could be in, like the just
the baddest of blood feuds, and regardless
1369
01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:24.520
of whether her dad was was beaten
up or Page talked about her her brother
1370
01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:29.039
and her her father, like,
she's doing that entrance regardless. There's no
1371
01:35:29.359 --> 01:35:32.600
sense of like, wow, Okay, I'm gonna forego the entrance because I
1372
01:35:33.079 --> 01:35:35.960
don't want to get down to that
ring and feed up my opponent like she's
1373
01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:41.079
it's always kind of just cool with
just hitting those spots and doing her thing,
1374
01:35:41.159 --> 01:35:45.359
And I just think she loses touch
with the emotion of it if when
1375
01:35:45.399 --> 01:35:49.479
she does that yeah and going down. I mean, because at this point
1376
01:35:49.479 --> 01:35:53.159
we might as well just hit all
of the women, the wrestling horsemen,
1377
01:35:53.279 --> 01:35:56.600
women. I look at them,
and they all have their own nuanced things.
1378
01:35:57.119 --> 01:36:00.439
Becky's I thought was a little too
manic, but now she's become the
1379
01:36:00.600 --> 01:36:05.800
man. It's perfect because she's gotten
rid of the steampunk gears, she's gotten
1380
01:36:05.880 --> 01:36:11.359
rid of the steam. All she
has now is the man. And then
1381
01:36:11.479 --> 01:36:15.399
that really iconic very just like with
Sammy's saying if he finds something that's going
1382
01:36:15.439 --> 01:36:16.840
to be a good hitch for him
when he comes back, he has a
1383
01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:20.600
really catchy theme. He just needs
a really good entrance. It can't just
1384
01:36:20.720 --> 01:36:26.960
be I'm happy go look he coming
down the ring exactly. And I'm with
1385
01:36:27.039 --> 01:36:31.039
you on Becky. I think the
kind of the black backdrop on her entrance
1386
01:36:31.079 --> 01:36:34.039
and on the video screens and it
just says, you know, the man
1387
01:36:34.119 --> 01:36:38.119
and she's able just to pose at
the top of the ramp, hold that
1388
01:36:38.199 --> 01:36:41.560
belt up and just walk on out
there. I mean, that's that's all
1389
01:36:41.720 --> 01:36:44.880
her character needs at this point because
she is as sad as she is,
1390
01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:48.359
and she, you know, is
one of the best things going right now.
1391
01:36:48.399 --> 01:36:53.199
In WWE, she knows it,
she's she's the man. She knows
1392
01:36:53.319 --> 01:36:58.439
all eyes are on her, regardless
of any sort of bells and whistles on
1393
01:36:58.840 --> 01:37:05.119
her entrance. So simple is better
for her in that regard. And with
1394
01:37:05.319 --> 01:37:11.279
Sasha Boss Time that I would lose
saying boss time, Oh God, yeah,
1395
01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:16.359
me too. She's another one where
it's like there's parts of her interest
1396
01:37:16.439 --> 01:37:18.840
that I really like. I like
when she gets to the ring. I
1397
01:37:18.920 --> 01:37:23.720
think she kind of engages with the
with the with the audience, especially the
1398
01:37:23.760 --> 01:37:26.960
baby face. It works. She
kind of like dips down and shows like
1399
01:37:27.039 --> 01:37:30.000
the legit boss kind of ring thing
that she has. But what tries to
1400
01:37:30.079 --> 01:37:34.560
be crazy about her interest is when
she hits kind of that pose in line
1401
01:37:34.680 --> 01:37:38.840
with the with her music at the
top of the ramp. So she comes
1402
01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:42.800
out and then like the song kicks
in and shuts her little side pose.
1403
01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:45.640
Deal Like to me, it's like, ah, you're like listening to the
1404
01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:47.359
music waiting for that moment to hit
so you could do it, and that's
1405
01:37:47.439 --> 01:37:53.279
just it that's overproduced in my opinion. Yeah, I'm with you completely.
1406
01:37:53.680 --> 01:37:58.319
And then moving to Bailey, I
think the wacky waving inflatable arm flailing too
1407
01:37:58.399 --> 01:38:00.159
men or Bailey buddies as they like
to say, so they don't get sued
1408
01:38:00.560 --> 01:38:04.520
or they have something that they can
sue people over. I think it's fine.
1409
01:38:05.039 --> 01:38:11.279
I think her deal is fine,
but she needs an edge. And
1410
01:38:11.359 --> 01:38:15.000
I was talking on the East Coast
cast about the fact that you know,
1411
01:38:15.520 --> 01:38:18.079
Edge and Christians Show is back on, and that was a really fun show
1412
01:38:18.159 --> 01:38:21.000
for me when it first was on
the first season, and then on top
1413
01:38:21.079 --> 01:38:28.000
of that, I really enjoyed how
strong it was in terms of giving characters
1414
01:38:28.039 --> 01:38:30.920
who don't get a lot of TV
time TV time, and Bailey was one
1415
01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:34.680
of the best cases because she was
harassing toward the end of the first season
1416
01:38:34.920 --> 01:38:38.960
Tommy dreaming to no end, to
the point where she was hitting him in
1417
01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:42.760
the groin with a Kendo stick to
prove how hardcore she was. And now
1418
01:38:42.880 --> 01:38:50.800
she's come back and she's sitting down
as a psychiatrist for the revival and they're
1419
01:38:50.880 --> 01:38:55.720
doing sock puppets and it's like,
well, maybe I want to do flips,
1420
01:38:55.840 --> 01:38:58.800
maybe I'm not just about fisting,
and then she like looks up with
1421
01:38:58.880 --> 01:39:02.000
her eyebrows raised, looking at her
fit and I'm like, this is more
1422
01:39:02.079 --> 01:39:05.359
personality I've seen that herd than i've
seen the year and a half since the
1423
01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:10.760
show's been off, and it just
extends its way out to her theme.
1424
01:39:12.479 --> 01:39:14.800
It does, it does, and
I'm with you, I think she needs
1425
01:39:14.840 --> 01:39:17.399
an edge. I think in a
in a vacuum, just looking at at
1426
01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:20.000
her entrance for what it is like, I think, like you said,
1427
01:39:20.039 --> 01:39:23.840
it's fine. It does, It
does the job. I think it checks
1428
01:39:23.880 --> 01:39:27.359
off a lot of boxes that I
have in terms of it being authentic and
1429
01:39:27.479 --> 01:39:31.439
being in line with with the Bailey
character. It's just that at this point,
1430
01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:36.119
with where Bailey is these days,
you know, I'm not sure that
1431
01:39:36.279 --> 01:39:42.399
that character is enough. So this
this plays into it, but you give
1432
01:39:43.119 --> 01:39:45.159
give it a little bit of an
edge, give her a little bit of
1433
01:39:45.399 --> 01:39:47.199
an edge, and you can,
you can tweet that entrance and make it
1434
01:39:47.399 --> 01:39:51.319
make it fit better. But for
who Bailey is right now today, you
1435
01:39:51.399 --> 01:39:55.359
know, I can't. I can't
knit too much too much with it,
1436
01:39:55.439 --> 01:39:58.640
it seems like. And on top
of that, the audience reacts big for
1437
01:39:58.760 --> 01:40:00.640
it nine times out of ten.
So yeah, I want there to be
1438
01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:03.239
a little bit more there, a
little bit more, a little bit more
1439
01:40:03.319 --> 01:40:09.479
depth. And I think if they
told the Bailey story better on the main
1440
01:40:09.600 --> 01:40:13.239
roster, that entrance would be would
be more endearing. They just kind of
1441
01:40:13.479 --> 01:40:17.560
just started doing it though, and
there was no basis and foundation for it.
1442
01:40:17.680 --> 01:40:20.680
So it's fine, like you said, but I think there could be
1443
01:40:20.920 --> 01:40:24.319
there could be more depth there and
that would help Rout a lot too.
1444
01:40:28.239 --> 01:40:31.279
Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shopped
the world and formed the New World Order?
1445
01:40:31.680 --> 01:40:35.560
Or when Stone Cold Steve Austin passed
down on the Sharpshooter to break the
1446
01:40:35.640 --> 01:40:41.039
hit man heard. I'm Torch contributor
Frank petty Ani, and I've reviewed these
1447
01:40:41.079 --> 01:40:45.960
shows and many more for my exclusive
VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now.
1448
01:40:45.399 --> 01:40:48.680
Together with a rotating chair of co
hosts, we go back ten,
1449
01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:53.760
twenty, even thirty years, review
pay per views from top to bottom,
1450
01:40:54.119 --> 01:40:57.680
talk about where the wrestlers were at
the time, and compare what took place
1451
01:40:57.760 --> 01:41:02.000
then to what is taking place now. Exclusive access to these and other podcasts
1452
01:41:02.039 --> 01:41:06.520
as part of your PW Torch VIP
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1453
01:41:06.600 --> 01:41:13.079
Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com
slash go vip for details and sign up
1454
01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:25.199
for so make sure you have any
questions you guys give us a call aera
1455
01:41:25.239 --> 01:41:28.600
code five one five, six one
five oh five one five six oh five
1456
01:41:28.680 --> 01:41:31.439
nine three four five. That's five
one five, six oh five nine three
1457
01:41:31.520 --> 01:41:38.359
four five. Uh so we went
through three of the four. Let's finish
1458
01:41:38.479 --> 01:41:41.199
up well, No, we did
all four. On the other side,
1459
01:41:41.640 --> 01:41:46.079
Ronda has uh we haven't. He's
heard Marina Shafir or the what's the other
1460
01:41:46.119 --> 01:41:53.840
woman's name in the Mma Horseman Marina
and I should know her, really I
1461
01:41:53.960 --> 01:41:59.600
should too. I'm about to google
it right now. Marina Shafir and Jessamin
1462
01:41:59.680 --> 01:42:02.680
Duke. Yes, there we go. Marina is usually the harder one to
1463
01:42:02.720 --> 01:42:08.039
remember, and somehow remembered her.
So Marina and Jessica like have I don't
1464
01:42:08.079 --> 01:42:13.760
know it's whatever. But when it
comes to Ronda, a Bad Reputation,
1465
01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:16.000
Eh, it was her theme in
UFC, so I get it, and
1466
01:42:16.119 --> 01:42:18.960
it's a good walkout music. I
don't know how much of an entrance theme
1467
01:42:19.000 --> 01:42:24.000
it is and how much of an
entrance because it's either the jeckal Hide where
1468
01:42:24.039 --> 01:42:29.840
she's smiling, or I would prefer
if she's gonna play Bad Reputation by jone
1469
01:42:29.920 --> 01:42:32.680
Jet, you gotta have the Steve
Boston would call it the BMF walk from
1470
01:42:32.760 --> 01:42:35.800
the start of that, you can't
be smiling. You gotta be ready.
1471
01:42:35.880 --> 01:42:39.880
I'm about to tear your arms off
and beat you with him. But her
1472
01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:44.079
partner in crime and n XT gets
that down to a science in terms of
1473
01:42:44.119 --> 01:42:47.199
what she does. Because I think
Shana Basler's entrance from start to finish is
1474
01:42:47.279 --> 01:42:55.760
outstanding. SHANEA. Bazil's entrance is
completely tremendous. Like I really again,
1475
01:42:56.000 --> 01:43:00.239
it checks off my two main boxes
of just being authentic and real and and
1476
01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:04.520
she it's I don't know, the
music has this rawness to it. She
1477
01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:11.079
there's no bells and whistles in terms
of like any special you know, poses
1478
01:43:11.399 --> 01:43:14.039
or points she's got to hit.
She just comes out there. She kind
1479
01:43:14.079 --> 01:43:17.159
of does some shadow boxing, She
hits the Queen of Hearts posing, and
1480
01:43:17.279 --> 01:43:20.640
she she walks to the ring with
us. She got to towel on around
1481
01:43:20.640 --> 01:43:26.039
her neck, and I I really
love outside of the music, but when
1482
01:43:26.079 --> 01:43:30.680
she gets in that ring, she
kind of does that that kind of shuffle
1483
01:43:30.760 --> 01:43:34.199
all the way around the in a
circle like she would or like a fighter
1484
01:43:34.279 --> 01:43:38.960
would inside of a UFC octey guy. And I love that she gets in
1485
01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:42.720
there. She does that, she
locks eyes with her opponent as she does
1486
01:43:42.760 --> 01:43:45.640
it, and it does just a
really nice job of setting setting the tone
1487
01:43:46.039 --> 01:43:50.960
for her as it's just complete badass
woman, who's gonna who's gonna kick your
1488
01:43:51.079 --> 01:43:55.399
ass? And I think, uh, she's she's on point with that,
1489
01:43:55.680 --> 01:44:00.960
and compared to to Ronda where where
where Basler is just right in line with
1490
01:44:00.079 --> 01:44:04.319
her character and totally authentic in nature. Ronda, she there's some hits and
1491
01:44:04.399 --> 01:44:08.880
missus in there with me. I
don't mind bad reputation. I think it
1492
01:44:08.960 --> 01:44:14.560
works for her. People know and
they relate her to that entrance entrance theme
1493
01:44:14.640 --> 01:44:17.039
bat to her UFC days. But
yeah, like you like you alluded to
1494
01:44:17.560 --> 01:44:23.359
the disconnect with her walking out to
that song and then smiling, waving and
1495
01:44:23.479 --> 01:44:28.039
handing you know, things out to
fans on the ramp that there's a little
1496
01:44:28.039 --> 01:44:30.760
bit of a disconnect for me.
I think sometimes she hits the right note
1497
01:44:30.800 --> 01:44:33.600
and sometimes she can be totally off
base, depend depending on the night,
1498
01:44:33.720 --> 01:44:38.000
depending on the situation, depending on
what she's walking to the ring for,
1499
01:44:38.199 --> 01:44:42.560
whether it's a grudge match with Naya
Jacks or promo. So I don't know
1500
01:44:42.680 --> 01:44:47.399
that she's really found her a consistent
entrance yet. But I've always said that
1501
01:44:47.479 --> 01:44:51.600
she's got to just get her emotions
and check with that entrance, because that
1502
01:44:51.880 --> 01:44:57.960
entrance it sets the tone for the
audience as to what's about to happen,
1503
01:44:58.039 --> 01:45:02.600
as to what your character is and
how that character is being portrayed. And
1504
01:45:02.720 --> 01:45:09.279
she's just sometimes can just be disconnected
in that regard. So I think it
1505
01:45:09.359 --> 01:45:11.680
comes with being a little bit green. I mean, she only has,
1506
01:45:12.039 --> 01:45:14.560
you know, less than a year
under her belt, so I think in
1507
01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:17.520
time she'll find she'll find that voice
with the entrance, But at the moment,
1508
01:45:17.560 --> 01:45:23.159
it's a little herky jerky. And
speaking of herky jerky, I think
1509
01:45:23.239 --> 01:45:26.760
one person that fits that on the
SmackDown roster in terms of her treatment as
1510
01:45:26.800 --> 01:45:30.000
Oska, but you can't say that
about her entrance. I think it was
1511
01:45:30.039 --> 01:45:33.560
sometime around the Dana Brook title match
in NXT. Oh no, not even
1512
01:45:33.640 --> 01:45:39.880
data it was. It wasn't Dana
Brook. It was the match she had
1513
01:45:40.399 --> 01:45:43.760
with oh my god, how did
I forget her name? Just now Mickey
1514
01:45:43.880 --> 01:45:47.880
James, the Mickey James Takeover match
where she has felt it and ever since
1515
01:45:48.359 --> 01:45:51.119
she's been one with that theme.
I mean, there'd be some matches where
1516
01:45:51.159 --> 01:45:54.960
she'd be cool, should be fine. That match stood out to me as
1517
01:45:55.000 --> 01:45:58.520
a time where she was just I
know, I'm the baddest woman on the
1518
01:45:58.600 --> 01:46:00.640
world. I know I'm the highest
woman in the world. I'm gonna show
1519
01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:03.439
you why, and I'm just gonna
take my sweet time coming down there.
1520
01:46:05.079 --> 01:46:10.359
Yep, she she sure did that
that entrance and and and even today still
1521
01:46:10.399 --> 01:46:14.800
I think there's a there's a quirkiness
to the arc behind her entrance, with
1522
01:46:14.920 --> 01:46:16.720
the way kind of the way she
walks, since she's got the coat and
1523
01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:20.279
the you know, that mask on
there. But it works for her,
1524
01:46:20.479 --> 01:46:26.760
and it especially work like you alluded
to more so in NXT. But but
1525
01:46:26.920 --> 01:46:30.199
yeah, she's she's right there in
line, and I think people see her
1526
01:46:30.279 --> 01:46:33.880
and and you're kind of you're audit. Whether you know the history of her
1527
01:46:33.920 --> 01:46:38.159
booking, whether you know, hey, okay, she was undefeated or not,
1528
01:46:38.439 --> 01:46:42.479
it doesn't really matter. If you
took somebody who had never seen pro
1529
01:46:42.520 --> 01:46:45.600
wrestling before, you sat them in
kront of a TV and showed them,
1530
01:46:45.800 --> 01:46:48.079
you know, four or five six
entrance to that Oscar One's gonna stick out.
1531
01:46:48.119 --> 01:46:53.800
There's something about it, that quirkiness
and that you know, kind of
1532
01:46:54.159 --> 01:46:58.600
just emotion that she can get out
of people when she's doing it just it's
1533
01:46:58.640 --> 01:47:01.279
something that you have to keep your
eyes on and that it's kind of it's
1534
01:47:01.319 --> 01:47:05.960
eye catches, and so I think
she got that going for regardless of what
1535
01:47:06.920 --> 01:47:12.199
storyline she's in, and I think
that's a big reason why she's still relevant,
1536
01:47:12.439 --> 01:47:15.520
giving how poorly she's been booked for
the better part of six seven months.
1537
01:47:17.560 --> 01:47:21.399
Now, before we move on to
a kind of like because we're gonna
1538
01:47:21.439 --> 01:47:28.840
apologize to everyone because of these darn
technical difficulties and my marital responsibilities, I
1539
01:47:28.880 --> 01:47:33.319
may have to cut this deep dive
episode shorter than I intend. I want
1540
01:47:33.359 --> 01:47:36.760
to talk about tag teams, and
obviously we have to start with the USOS
1541
01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:42.479
because I think their transition from an
entrance that worked to an entrance that worked
1542
01:47:42.520 --> 01:47:46.960
even better is something that bears mentioning. Yeah, they are, and I
1543
01:47:47.039 --> 01:47:51.520
think the tag team thing in general
is a good thing to discuss with entrances.
1544
01:47:51.640 --> 01:47:55.880
But yeah, man, I mean, if you're asking me which one
1545
01:47:55.920 --> 01:48:01.039
I prefer, I prefer their entrance
now it's kind of just really it's one
1546
01:48:01.039 --> 01:48:05.399
of the more straightforward entrances on the
roster music kids. They walk out,
1547
01:48:05.520 --> 01:48:10.680
but I'll tell you what their previous
entrants when they had the face paint on
1548
01:48:10.840 --> 01:48:15.760
and did the Samoan I don't know
if you call it. I guess I'm
1549
01:48:15.760 --> 01:48:18.279
not sure if dance is the right
word, or I'll just use the Samoan
1550
01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:23.720
dance to define it. But that
did a good job of setting the tone
1551
01:48:24.000 --> 01:48:27.800
for their characters as well. And
I again that to be is a big
1552
01:48:28.039 --> 01:48:32.359
part of a successful entrance. So
yeah, it's a little comic book bookie.
1553
01:48:32.439 --> 01:48:35.600
It's a little cartoonish in the way
they were presented, but that entrance
1554
01:48:35.680 --> 01:48:40.560
caught your attention and it did a
good job of defining who the Usos were
1555
01:48:40.600 --> 01:48:45.199
at that time, like their entrance
does for them now. And on the
1556
01:48:45.239 --> 01:48:50.640
other side, you have pretty straightforward
and I feel like again another case of
1557
01:48:51.079 --> 01:48:58.800
they did okay separately, but the
second they made Shamus and Cesaro's themes merge
1558
01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:04.279
and they did the uh back to
back motion with the lights, that was
1559
01:49:04.439 --> 01:49:09.600
the Whoever came up with that needs
to needs to do a lot more in
1560
01:49:09.720 --> 01:49:14.520
that company, because that was genius
from the lights. Because the lights definitely
1561
01:49:14.560 --> 01:49:19.199
remind me of right before Bautista left
the first time around, where he would
1562
01:49:19.239 --> 01:49:24.560
have I walk alone and he'd just
have the spotlight and that was another entrance
1563
01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:28.159
that was just, oh, we
really nailed it before he got out of
1564
01:49:28.199 --> 01:49:30.840
wrestling full time. And so you
take that and then you have their themes,
1565
01:49:30.880 --> 01:49:35.760
which I never thought could ever go
together, and it's perfect. Yeah,
1566
01:49:35.840 --> 01:49:40.560
no, I totally agree. And
for a while I was of the
1567
01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:43.479
mindset of, oh my god,
this is this is bad. You just
1568
01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:47.239
just put two guys together. And
at the time, like they they weren't
1569
01:49:47.279 --> 01:49:50.119
the bar. They were just shamous
and cizarro. We're not really, we
1570
01:49:50.159 --> 01:49:54.000
don't have much for you. So
let's say it be a tag team and
1571
01:49:54.279 --> 01:49:58.800
here you go. We'll merge your
entrance music together and boom, that's all
1572
01:49:58.840 --> 01:50:00.319
you have. So that news out
of the gates. I was like,
1573
01:50:00.439 --> 01:50:03.039
oh, this is this is this
is bad stuff. And they didn't really
1574
01:50:03.119 --> 01:50:09.479
have a cohesive entrance at all when
they first started. And now you look
1575
01:50:09.520 --> 01:50:14.199
at their presentation. There they've got
they've got a gimmick to them. They've
1576
01:50:14.239 --> 01:50:18.119
got the same music, which is
effective now because they have that gammick in
1577
01:50:18.199 --> 01:50:21.319
place. But but yeah, when
that light hits and then they're they're kind
1578
01:50:21.359 --> 01:50:26.119
of black silhouettes. Is in the
middle of that light ahead of the entrance,
1579
01:50:26.680 --> 01:50:30.439
you kind of get the crowd shot
behind them, like the full audience
1580
01:50:30.560 --> 01:50:32.880
in the arena behind them when the
when the lights come back on. I
1581
01:50:32.960 --> 01:50:35.880
think that's really cool. And they, I don't know, they looked,
1582
01:50:35.960 --> 01:50:40.279
They look big time in that entrance, and I think it's it's helped.
1583
01:50:40.600 --> 01:50:45.640
It's helped their act in WWE to
go to that and move to that then
1584
01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:48.960
just be e merging of two gimmicks
into one. They've really made it their
1585
01:50:48.960 --> 01:50:53.479
own in that way. And who
would you say, is there anyone that
1586
01:50:53.600 --> 01:50:57.279
stands out on the opposite side of
the ledger where you're kind of like this
1587
01:50:57.479 --> 01:51:00.239
theme, I don't know, Uh, the closest I could have thought it
1588
01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:04.880
was back in the next when it
was when oh god, what was Alexa
1589
01:51:04.920 --> 01:51:11.439
Bliss's tag team that she managed,
Blake and Murphy. Yeah, Blake and
1590
01:51:11.560 --> 01:51:15.520
Murphy, as Travis would call him
the bleep blow up Twins because it would
1591
01:51:15.600 --> 01:51:18.960
just you'd hear the dove step and
it would just be You're like, what
1592
01:51:19.199 --> 01:51:25.760
is going on? My head hurts? That's so true. Yeah, I'm
1593
01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:29.159
trying to think of somebody. I
mean, I'm not a huge fan of
1594
01:51:29.239 --> 01:51:33.319
the heath Slater Rhino entrance for one
thing. It's mainly just Heath Slater and
1595
01:51:33.439 --> 01:51:41.560
you have this rhino character coming out
with Heath Slater and who like the two
1596
01:51:41.640 --> 01:51:44.680
have nothing to do with one another. And I think that's a good example
1597
01:51:44.720 --> 01:51:46.680
of again they just kind of put
two guys together and hey, you know,
1598
01:51:46.800 --> 01:51:49.520
we're not gonna have that much for
you to just walk out to Keith
1599
01:51:49.560 --> 01:51:54.600
Slater's entrant music. It's it's it's
fine, you know. So yeah,
1600
01:51:54.640 --> 01:51:57.640
I think that one and not that
we're going to be seeing that much anymore.
1601
01:51:57.680 --> 01:52:00.399
It doesn't look like after the events
of Money that Row, but that
1602
01:52:00.479 --> 01:52:02.279
doesn't do too much for me.
On the flop side, the one that
1603
01:52:02.319 --> 01:52:08.000
I'll you're brain about authors are paint
I mean, how do you think they
1604
01:52:08.279 --> 01:52:11.520
they look? I mean, I
love big shows when they kind of have
1605
01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:15.920
the helmet and the head gear and
like they look like almost like alien robots
1606
01:52:15.960 --> 01:52:19.439
from a teenage routan Ninja Turtles movie
or something like that. They look really
1607
01:52:19.520 --> 01:52:25.119
cool when when done right. Yeah, And I think first of all,
1608
01:52:25.119 --> 01:52:30.039
Akaman raisar I like that, and
then you know offers a pain super collider
1609
01:52:30.399 --> 01:52:35.119
and you know, it's all cute
in terms of the package. But then
1610
01:52:35.159 --> 01:52:39.920
you put them out there in the
riot gear. I would have preferred it
1611
01:52:40.000 --> 01:52:44.680
with precious Paul Ellering as opposed to
my little dude there, because now you
1612
01:52:44.760 --> 01:52:46.760
have them as the pants pisser,
and that's not a you don't want two
1613
01:52:46.800 --> 01:52:51.279
tough guys being associated. Unless it's
a guy Ritchie movie, You're not gonna
1614
01:52:51.279 --> 01:52:55.560
be able to make it work.
Like he could figure out a way to
1615
01:52:55.640 --> 01:52:59.880
make like some dude like Brad Pitt, like at the very first act PM
1616
01:53:00.479 --> 01:53:02.159
and then by the end of the
movie you have like two dudes. Is
1617
01:53:02.199 --> 01:53:05.399
this tough guy's heavies and you believe
it? With this You're just like,
1618
01:53:05.520 --> 01:53:10.000
why are you guys associated with this
idiot? Like what does he do?
1619
01:53:11.600 --> 01:53:14.520
It? Is it they did?
He does? And he almost like I
1620
01:53:14.520 --> 01:53:18.640
don't know. He looks like they're
like kind of like little brother tagging along
1621
01:53:18.760 --> 01:53:24.720
and not somebody who's actively managing them
and getting into the next space. I
1622
01:53:24.760 --> 01:53:28.119
think like they walk out at the
top of the ram, they cannot they
1623
01:53:28.199 --> 01:53:30.520
both this bumped Drake Maverick, and
I'm like, oh god, it just
1624
01:53:30.600 --> 01:53:35.760
looks like, you know, two
older brothers walking up to a basketball court
1625
01:53:35.840 --> 01:53:40.119
with their with their younger brother,
Like it's just there's nothing menacing about that,
1626
01:53:40.279 --> 01:53:44.640
But you take aop alone and and
with Paul Aaron ellery he he,
1627
01:53:44.880 --> 01:53:49.720
he added a layer of credibility to
that act just because he just looked menacing
1628
01:53:50.199 --> 01:53:54.319
in between those guys. And I
don't think I don't think Maverick does this
1629
01:53:54.479 --> 01:53:59.199
in the same way. I'm I'm
definitely with you on that, and I
1630
01:53:59.439 --> 01:54:03.039
I think looking at the obviously,
the New Day is solid all the way
1631
01:54:03.079 --> 01:54:06.800
around. I don't know how they've
scrated around the legality of chucking food into
1632
01:54:06.840 --> 01:54:11.520
the crowd without getting in trouble,
but hey, if they were able to
1633
01:54:11.600 --> 01:54:15.720
do it, God bless keep doing
it. Thanks for downloading today's show.
1634
01:54:15.840 --> 01:54:17.720
Take it to the next level with
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1635
01:54:18.079 --> 01:54:21.880
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01:54:21.960 --> 01:54:28.399
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1637
01:54:28.439 --> 01:54:31.960
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01:54:31.960 --> 01:54:35.079
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01:54:35.159 --> 01:54:39.960
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1640
01:54:40.119 --> 01:54:44.119
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1641
01:54:44.600 --> 01:54:47.920
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1642
01:54:48.199 --> 01:55:01.439
slash go vip. I wanted to
close with stables, and right now,
1643
01:55:02.399 --> 01:55:09.520
the best and the brightest in terms
of stable entrances to me is Undisputed Era.
1644
01:55:10.800 --> 01:55:13.600
They are just four dudes. If
you see him in a car,
1645
01:55:13.720 --> 01:55:16.239
you want it run off the road. If they're in a supermarket there you
1646
01:55:16.319 --> 01:55:19.640
have thirty items in the tight arms
or a less line. They're just smarmy
1647
01:55:20.119 --> 01:55:25.399
and they're just annoying. And they
skip at the movie theater and sit in
1648
01:55:25.479 --> 01:55:28.960
seats they aren't supposed to, and
that theme. It starts out and you
1649
01:55:29.159 --> 01:55:31.239
like it because it sounds like a
rage against the machine knockoff. But then
1650
01:55:31.319 --> 01:55:33.920
they come out and you're just like, ugh, I forgot it was you.
1651
01:55:35.800 --> 01:55:40.239
Yeah, you're right. It starts
off like okay, well we're gonna
1652
01:55:40.239 --> 01:55:44.920
see some cool, something cool is
happening. And then you got Adam Cole's
1653
01:55:45.079 --> 01:55:48.119
like smirk out of his face.
You got Kyle O'Reilly smiling the way he
1654
01:55:48.279 --> 01:55:53.279
does. Same with Roderick Strong.
They do that like annoying pose at the
1655
01:55:53.359 --> 01:55:56.520
top of the ramp, and you
know, I'm with you, You just
1656
01:55:56.640 --> 01:56:00.560
like want to You see them walk
down the ramp and they're kind of slowly
1657
01:56:00.159 --> 01:56:04.800
gallivanting to the ring O'Reilly's doing the
doing the air guitar. It's just like,
1658
01:56:05.159 --> 01:56:09.640
man, like you just want to
stop them and just smack those smirks
1659
01:56:09.880 --> 01:56:15.279
right off their faces. And so
yeah, it works again like they're hitting
1660
01:56:15.359 --> 01:56:18.760
the right mark with their entrance because
it's it's it's setting the tone for for
1661
01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:24.960
their characters and it's laying that foundation
for the audience so that the first second
1662
01:56:25.039 --> 01:56:27.680
that you see them, you just
start like, oh God, get this
1663
01:56:27.760 --> 01:56:30.600
guy off my screen. I'm gonna
platform, where's the babyface? Where's Ricochet?
1664
01:56:30.840 --> 01:56:33.600
That's gonna come here and and and
take care of business. And it
1665
01:56:33.760 --> 01:56:39.680
starts from the moment they walk out
after that ramp and they it's on point
1666
01:56:39.680 --> 01:56:44.960
one hundred percent as far as stables
too, I'll throw a and it's kind
1667
01:56:45.000 --> 01:56:48.439
of kind of similar to a disputed
era and it's a it's not a current
1668
01:56:48.479 --> 01:56:54.720
one, but the evolution and I
always thought was was really cool and effective
1669
01:56:54.760 --> 01:56:59.359
for those for those four guys,
like they obviously all four of them,
1670
01:56:59.520 --> 01:57:02.720
Rick Flair, Randy order Fatiste,
the Triple h be Stars, and like
1671
01:57:03.359 --> 01:57:08.800
just the kind of the yellow and
gold in that entrance, the slow pace
1672
01:57:08.880 --> 01:57:13.520
of it that allowed them to just
saunter down to the things the booze rained
1673
01:57:13.560 --> 01:57:15.920
in. It's just another moment where
you're like, I just want to smack
1674
01:57:16.039 --> 01:57:20.680
these guys. They're so arrogant and
so annoying, Like where's where's the baby
1675
01:57:20.760 --> 01:57:25.319
face at? That's gonna rough these
guys up. So I think from a
1676
01:57:25.439 --> 01:57:30.479
stable perspective, their entrance was effective
too. Yeah, And of course I
1677
01:57:30.560 --> 01:57:34.399
mean the shield. As far as
modern entrances before they broke up at their
1678
01:57:34.479 --> 01:57:39.399
height, that was probably one of
the top five top ten entrances all time.
1679
01:57:39.800 --> 01:57:43.720
Especially their Mania entrance when they had
the riot masks on and entered from
1680
01:57:43.760 --> 01:57:46.119
different parts of the stadium. I
think that was the one where I think
1681
01:57:46.159 --> 01:57:50.000
it was Dave Meltzer had quoted that
they wanted to do a helicopter but they
1682
01:57:50.000 --> 01:57:55.600
couldn't get cleared to do it,
and that would have been like something,
1683
01:57:56.000 --> 01:57:58.399
Yeah, that would have blown my
mind. I think that really would have
1684
01:57:58.399 --> 01:58:03.319
blown my mind. Horsemen. Horsemen
had an iconic entrance as far as the
1685
01:58:03.560 --> 01:58:08.199
hoofs and then just them walk into
the ring. But then out of the
1686
01:58:08.279 --> 01:58:13.039
new group, I would say,
I'm trying to think of someone that stands
1687
01:58:13.279 --> 01:58:17.359
out. What about sanity? Sanity? Oh God, yes, Sanity's up
1688
01:58:17.399 --> 01:58:25.720
there with authors of pain without any
silliness, and especially when you have like
1689
01:58:26.279 --> 01:58:31.399
sanity theme proper. But then when
you go to Nicky Cross, she has
1690
01:58:31.479 --> 01:58:34.920
her own version of it with her
screaming and it's a little higher pitched.
1691
01:58:35.399 --> 01:58:39.399
And I like the fact that they
take the attention to that it isn't just
1692
01:58:39.760 --> 01:58:42.640
you have a sanity theme and you
have a sanity theme. It's like different
1693
01:58:43.079 --> 01:58:48.800
versions of it. Yeah, And
I especially liked it in and they I'm
1694
01:58:48.840 --> 01:58:55.239
SmackDown are performing on SmackDown. I
think the camera angles and stuff are almost
1695
01:58:55.319 --> 01:58:59.239
a little bit too overdone in terms
of the shakiness that goes along with them.
1696
01:58:59.439 --> 01:59:01.840
But I think they walked that fine
line well in m XT. It
1697
01:59:02.000 --> 01:59:05.960
just it they were able to kind
of move the cameras, they tilted them
1698
01:59:06.039 --> 01:59:09.560
kind of side to side as they
walked to the ring. It was dark,
1699
01:59:09.680 --> 01:59:13.079
you couldn't see anything, and I
think that was just really effective in
1700
01:59:14.039 --> 01:59:16.520
kind of showcasing what that gimmick was
all about. And you know the name
1701
01:59:16.720 --> 01:59:24.479
Sanity just to me it kind of
exudes an element of we have no idea
1702
01:59:25.000 --> 01:59:29.119
what's going to happen, what's coming
from where, and the way their entrance
1703
01:59:29.279 --> 01:59:33.039
is shot kind of it rolls and
mirrors that a little bit because you can't
1704
01:59:33.199 --> 01:59:36.159
can't really see anything effectively. You're
just kind of looking all over the place
1705
01:59:36.199 --> 01:59:40.640
going Okay, what what the heck's
going on? And that when I hear
1706
01:59:40.760 --> 01:59:43.399
Sanity, like that's that's what I
think of. So I think they're on
1707
01:59:43.520 --> 01:59:47.880
point there too. Yeah, And
I'll close up my side of things with
1708
01:59:48.640 --> 01:59:54.680
two that are outside of w W, one of which is pretty strong style.
1709
01:59:54.760 --> 02:00:00.720
When they come out and wrestle together, that entrance them timing. Trent
1710
02:00:00.800 --> 02:00:02.960
seven does a really good job of
before he enters the ring if those if
1711
02:00:03.000 --> 02:00:06.039
you notice, he'll grab his towel
and kind of wrap it around his neck
1712
02:00:06.079 --> 02:00:11.000
and slowly roll in and let the
fans build up. And so him and
1713
02:00:11.279 --> 02:00:15.880
him and Tyler Bait doing that while
Pete Dunn is putting his fist to his
1714
02:00:15.159 --> 02:00:18.960
chin as he holds a belt in
his mouth, or the heel version they
1715
02:00:18.960 --> 02:00:23.560
would do when they were bragging about
being signed by w W. Where they
1716
02:00:23.600 --> 02:00:29.479
would all do the triple H spit
on the apron and then do the that's
1717
02:00:29.680 --> 02:00:33.439
just oh, I love that,
and then I'm a big fan finally that
1718
02:00:33.600 --> 02:00:40.359
one, and then also the I
I just anytime they come out together,
1719
02:00:40.760 --> 02:00:47.159
the c CK slash, ring comp
slash, uh what's what is what's it
1720
02:00:47.319 --> 02:00:54.359
called? Uh? Oh god?
Not shot in freude, but basically ring
1721
02:00:54.439 --> 02:00:59.399
comp. It's a very very straightforward
very you come out to some great you
1722
02:00:59.439 --> 02:01:01.119
know, it's like a eat sent
me or something like that, your arm
1723
02:01:01.159 --> 02:01:05.279
behind your back and you're just really
serious. Ring comp is just super serious.
1724
02:01:05.319 --> 02:01:08.880
Then on the other side you have
c CK, which, regardless of
1725
02:01:08.960 --> 02:01:14.079
what iteration it is, they're basically
really good wrestlers that choose to be scumbacks
1726
02:01:14.079 --> 02:01:19.239
when they wrestle you. And so
when you have who is it it is
1727
02:01:19.960 --> 02:01:26.680
Tim Thatcher and Chris Brooks together,
it's the best of CCK and the best
1728
02:01:26.720 --> 02:01:31.239
of ring comp. Because Chris Brooks
will try to be like very serious and
1729
02:01:31.840 --> 02:01:34.960
ery dite and like do the ring
comp arm behind his back, and then
1730
02:01:35.000 --> 02:01:38.840
Tim Thatcher will notice it and like
slap them and say no, no,
1731
02:01:39.079 --> 02:01:43.159
that you can't do that. And
so I really like and I mentioned this
1732
02:01:43.520 --> 02:01:45.079
last week when I did a I
mean it might have been two weeks ago.
1733
02:01:45.319 --> 02:01:49.359
I always like when there's a dynamic
with the personalities where one person's kind
1734
02:01:49.359 --> 02:01:55.119
of like trying to emulate the other. Not to the level of what's going
1735
02:01:55.159 --> 02:02:01.159
on now with with Oh God,
Bobby rue Food. Yeah yeah, and
1736
02:02:01.399 --> 02:02:03.920
you're going there. Yeah, it's
not that level, But I do like
1737
02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:08.359
it where it's like one person is
trying to either rehabilitate themselves or go on
1738
02:02:08.439 --> 02:02:11.439
the straight and narrow, and they
just can't do it, so I I
1739
02:02:11.800 --> 02:02:15.159
and then finally when the other person
like gives into their darker impulses for a
1740
02:02:15.239 --> 02:02:19.159
second, I think that's neat.
Yeah for sure, And yeah I'll throw
1741
02:02:19.239 --> 02:02:24.560
I'll comment quickly on a on an
entrance outside of w W either he's really
1742
02:02:24.600 --> 02:02:29.279
good and I throw something at you
too, Jay White. I think he's
1743
02:02:29.399 --> 02:02:33.119
got a really cool entrance going on. I like his I like the music
1744
02:02:34.039 --> 02:02:40.000
that's that's behind him. I like
how his ring attire just kind of lines
1745
02:02:40.079 --> 02:02:45.319
up. I don't I never fully
understood what the switch Blade character necessarily was
1746
02:02:45.479 --> 02:02:49.319
or what it necessarily meant, but
he's got this consistent presentation with kind of
1747
02:02:49.359 --> 02:02:55.359
the posey hits at the top of
his entrance and the kind of the switch
1748
02:02:55.520 --> 02:02:59.880
blade sound that that opens up his
music. So I think his it's kind
1749
02:02:59.880 --> 02:03:03.399
of dark, it's brooding, and
very much in line with with who Jay
1750
02:03:03.439 --> 02:03:08.600
White is as a character. And
I'd be remiss to do a show about
1751
02:03:08.640 --> 02:03:14.439
pro wrestling entrances if I didn't bring
up Stone Cold Steve Austin's entrance, because
1752
02:03:14.640 --> 02:03:17.479
that, in my opinion, probably
one of the best entrances of all time,
1753
02:03:17.560 --> 02:03:21.760
between that the glass hitting, the
straight up BMF walk down to the
1754
02:03:21.880 --> 02:03:25.479
ring, hit each of those ring
posts, grab a mic, and then
1755
02:03:25.600 --> 02:03:30.520
go to work. So I've always
loved that one. I just there's something
1756
02:03:30.520 --> 02:03:34.600
about that glass hitting and the ensuing
insanity of a pop that came afterwards that
1757
02:03:35.079 --> 02:03:40.720
was always just artistically beautiful to me. It still is to this day,
1758
02:03:40.800 --> 02:03:44.640
even though I know exactly what it
sounds like. But even to this day,
1759
02:03:44.920 --> 02:03:47.399
cup a cue up a Stone Cold
entrance with that glass and that pop,
1760
02:03:47.520 --> 02:03:53.119
and it's uh that that to me
is you know, that's pro wrestling.
1761
02:03:53.199 --> 02:03:57.039
That's that's the artistry of this business
shining through. So love it.
1762
02:03:57.640 --> 02:04:00.680
Yeah, I agree. I was
even thinking when I was about the show
1763
02:04:00.760 --> 02:04:02.399
driving and run some errands before I
had to get back home. I thought
1764
02:04:02.439 --> 02:04:09.680
about even when he switched to the
disturbed version, that was still good and
1765
02:04:09.800 --> 02:04:12.439
that would have been great for any
other wrestler. But you're like, I
1766
02:04:12.520 --> 02:04:16.319
missed the old one. And that's
how bright. It was so simple but
1767
02:04:16.399 --> 02:04:19.279
so effective. You break the glass
and then when even would drop the if
1768
02:04:19.279 --> 02:04:23.720
you hear the glass, you know
that so many different things he could play
1769
02:04:23.760 --> 02:04:27.119
off of it. And then it
got to the point where he had b
1770
02:04:27.359 --> 02:04:30.920
MF written on the left side of
his vest and it's like and it's just
1771
02:04:31.159 --> 02:04:34.239
all of it is just in there, and so I really appreciated that.
1772
02:04:38.159 --> 02:04:42.600
Yeah, so Ze, I will
go real quick on the Steve Boston too.
1773
02:04:42.720 --> 02:04:45.279
Sorry, gosh, I could talk
about this forever. I apologize.
1774
02:04:45.479 --> 02:04:49.079
No, no, no, I'll
have you back on the really dive into
1775
02:04:49.159 --> 02:04:54.359
some more stuff obviously nice, No, yeah no, but yeah, Steve
1776
02:04:54.439 --> 02:04:56.880
Dawson again, I think he talked
about this a couple of times. But
1777
02:04:57.239 --> 02:05:00.600
the intensity of that Andrews is there. There's no there's no going around that
1778
02:05:00.680 --> 02:05:03.760
class hits. He's out there and
then he's in that ring going to work
1779
02:05:03.840 --> 02:05:06.520
doing business, and I think,
you know, it's in line with his
1780
02:05:06.640 --> 02:05:11.439
character. That's a common theme of
my analysis here. But it also just
1781
02:05:11.640 --> 02:05:14.359
it sets, It sets the crowd, It gets them, it gets them
1782
02:05:14.439 --> 02:05:16.359
ready, which is what which is
what I just think is so special about
1783
02:05:16.359 --> 02:05:18.920
it. No, yeah, you're
right, and that I mean even when
1784
02:05:18.960 --> 02:05:23.239
I think about like the Rock the
Rocks with another one where people would get
1785
02:05:23.239 --> 02:05:25.600
ready, they know it was him, they knew it was coming. Uh.
1786
02:05:27.439 --> 02:05:31.039
The razor emone was kind of good, but then it wasn't as good
1787
02:05:31.479 --> 02:05:36.920
as when it got used later with
Austin Actually, and I did that with
1788
02:05:38.039 --> 02:05:42.119
them music where you could compare like
Jim Johnson kind of borrowing from himself.
1789
02:05:42.640 --> 02:05:45.920
And that's like, you know,
stealing from yourself is the best form of
1790
02:05:45.000 --> 02:05:50.039
flattery, I guess, as one
would say. But yeah, but so
1791
02:05:50.119 --> 02:05:51.880
before we get out of here,
Zach, why don't you let the folks
1792
02:05:51.960 --> 02:05:57.159
know where they can find you on
the Twitter verse and how they can follow
1793
02:05:57.239 --> 02:06:00.079
you for all of the great content
you bring to the torch. Yes,
1794
02:06:00.239 --> 02:06:03.560
appreciate it. Rich Well, you
know, recently, folks, I've lost
1795
02:06:03.600 --> 02:06:09.039
the battle with Twitter. So if
you're following me on my old account,
1796
02:06:09.079 --> 02:06:14.039
which is at z Haydorn, that
is no longer active. So now give
1797
02:06:14.079 --> 02:06:17.439
me a follow over at z Haydorn
Torch. That's at z h e y
1798
02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:23.239
d o r n Torch. And
yeah, ninety nine point nine percent of
1799
02:06:23.479 --> 02:06:28.560
progressing related stuff. But I'll you
know, my reforce will be there links
1800
02:06:28.600 --> 02:06:32.760
to the VIP page for you guys
out there who aren't Torch VIP members yet,
1801
02:06:32.880 --> 02:06:35.840
that's there for you too. And
but yeah, but check me out
1802
02:06:35.880 --> 02:06:41.319
during the week all over PW torch
dot com and then go vip and check
1803
02:06:41.359 --> 02:06:45.479
out the show on the canvas.
It drops every Friday afternoon. Well,
1804
02:06:45.520 --> 02:06:49.399
thanks for taking the time tonight,
Zach, and I appreciate you and all
1805
02:06:49.479 --> 02:06:55.359
the craziness going on with the week
and being so flexible. Oh absolutely rich
1806
02:06:55.479 --> 02:06:59.479
anytime. Love talking wrestling to you. So I appreciate talking wrestling with you.
1807
02:07:00.000 --> 02:07:02.119
Excuse me, but I appreciate you
having me on and let's do it
1808
02:07:02.159 --> 02:07:05.760
again soon. Sounds like a plan, So everyone, I hope you have
1809
02:07:05.840 --> 02:07:09.760
a great night, great weekend.
As always, dive into something new,
1810
02:07:10.079 --> 02:07:14.840
challenge yourself, push yourself beyond that
plus ultra and we'll be seeing you next
1811
02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:18.079
week. I will have problematic Sean
Covington on and Lord knows what we're going
1812
02:07:18.159 --> 02:07:23.600
to talk about. I apologize in
advance. Be good. Stay with me
1813
02:07:23.800 --> 02:07:28.520
for a moment as the boss Man
drops some information on the latest and greatest
1814
02:07:28.520 --> 02:07:31.359
in VIP. Until next time,
I've been rich fan, keep diving.
1815
02:08:05.119 --> 02:08:09.640
Invite you to email the show with
feedback or questions or comments. That email
1816
02:08:09.680 --> 02:08:16.159
address is Wadekeller Podcast at petwtorch dot
com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW toorch
1817
02:08:16.199 --> 02:08:18.479
dot com. Also welcome your feedback
on Twitter. You can follow us on
1818
02:08:18.600 --> 02:08:24.880
Twitter at PW Torch and follow me
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1819
02:08:24.279 --> 02:08:31.600
and at the Wadekeller. Searching for
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1820
02:08:31.680 --> 02:08:35.279
me Jason Powell host them the three
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1821
02:08:35.319 --> 02:08:39.479
you'll hear the latest news and analysis
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1822
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Boom Podcast features long form interviews with
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02:08:46.920 --> 02:08:50.880
Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps,
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1826
02:08:56.840 --> 02:09:01.840
Boom dot com. Thanks listening to
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02:09:01.920 --> 02:09:07.119
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02:09:07.199 --> 02:09:11.840
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02:09:24.399 --> 02:09:30.439
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02:09:30.560 --> 02:09:35.600
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02:09:35.720 --> 02:09:39.239
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02:09:43.720 --> 02:09:48.399
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When shows where our guests will join
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02:09:58.119 --> 02:10:01.720
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1840
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1842
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Thank you so much. In twenty twelve,
1854
02:11:05.479 --> 02:11:09.239
NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today.
1855
02:11:09.760 --> 02:11:16.000
On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight
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1856
02:11:16.119 --> 02:11:20.119
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02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:24.600
Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday
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1858
02:11:24.720 --> 02:11:28.560
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With a bustling holiday season well underway, ready to eat meal Delivery can
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nutritious, flavorful options to choose from. The holiday season is especially busy for
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a lot of us to be included, and taking time to cook or go
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somewhere to eat isn't always possible,
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bad food, and that's not what
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you time. Thanks to factors commitment
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flavorful, chef crafted meals Guild Free
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of my favorites. Need a special
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Factor when things had hectic during the
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