00:00:00
Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload, the podcast.
00:00:03
Speaker 2: Last week. Yeah, bye.
00:00:04
Speaker 1: G'day, guys.
00:00:05
Speaker 3: Welcome back to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and today we're talking The Traders Australia with one of this season's biggest players.
00:00:12
Speaker 1: It's Josh Packham.
00:00:13
Speaker 3: Josh entered the game alongside his identical twin brother, Luke. And from the moment they walked into the castle, there was one massive question hanging over them. Did having your twin in the game... give you an unfair advantage? Well, today, Josh answers that, including those rumors about notes being passed between the brothers and whether they were secretly sharing information. He also reveals why the twins actually avoided each other for the first few days, how quickly he was able to work out that Luke was a faithful, and why it was ultimately Luke who convinced him to make one of the biggest moves in his game, going after everyone. Josh also breaks down where his game went wrong, why voting out Lawson was such a disaster for him, and the surprisingly simple thing he wishes he'd taken into the castle that he believes could have completely changed his game. Plus, we talk about Kirby and Reese, the traitors, who Josh thinks played the better traitor game. who he'd like to see cast in the next season, and why he's putting his own hand up for Australian Survivor.
00:01:16
Speaker 1: There's a lot to unpack.
00:01:18
Speaker 3: This is Josh Packham from The Traders Australia on TV Reload.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: Hey, how are you?
00:01:24
Speaker 4: I'm good. I'm good. How are you, Ben?
00:01:25
Speaker 1: I'm doing very well. Nice to see you again. I haven't seen you in a while.
00:01:28
Speaker 4: It's been a while. It has.
00:01:30
Speaker 3: Did you think that you were going to come back to reality television after doing the block?
00:01:35
Speaker 2: After such a long absence, absolutely not. I thought my time was done. Obviously, Luke and I are a package deal. We've got a business now. It would be hard to put aside six to eight weeks for a show, which they.
00:01:49
Speaker 4: Usually last about that long.
00:01:51
Speaker 2: So, I thought our time was done and I was really surprised when we got the call up to go on the show and it worked out. It was only a two-week show at most. We can sort of put the business on hold for that long, have things running smoothly in the background and something completely different that we haven't done.
00:02:08
Speaker 4: So I was 100% in for it.
00:02:10
Speaker 3: What was the pitch like when you got the phone call and who got the phone call first? Is it like, who's going to take this call?
00:02:16
Speaker 4: I think I got the phone call. No, yeah, it was.
00:02:18
Speaker 2: I think I got the phone call because Luke's even more quiet than I am on socials where we don't really do too much.
00:02:24
Speaker 4: We don't have much online presence. We're pretty normal in our lives.
00:02:28
Speaker 2: Like we don't upload a photo once a week or, you know, do a story every day. It's just not the way we usually live our lives. So to get in contact with Luke is really difficult.
00:02:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: You know, he barely even reads his emails. I have to read all his emails, basically. So they had to get in contact with me.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: On paper, who makes a better person to do this show? Like, I think that the two of your personalities are actually quite different once people get to know the two of you. And I still am debating as to which one works better on this show than the other.
00:02:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's so difficult because we are very different.
00:03:01
Speaker 2: Luke's obviously more boisterous and he's very opinionated and he can't keep that to himself. He's a bit of a flabbergasted Luke. He can't keep secrets. And in that show, you have to obviously be able to keep quiet at some points. I think I can do a little bit better than Luke. So I always felt that I might go a little bit deeper than Luke, in all honesty. He would be a much better trader than I could have been.
00:03:26
Speaker 3: I'm just so curious about all of that because I just, I feel as though one of you had been made a traitor. It would have been, that's where all of this advantage, disadvantage conversation would have come into play because I don't think that either of you would have been able to keep that a secret if one of you had been made a traitor and the other hadn't.
00:03:43
Speaker 2: Well, you sort of have to keep it a secret because then you're breaking the rules. So, I mean, we would be able to read each other better than anyone else in the world, basically, as being twins. It's such a special relationship. But ultimately, he wouldn't be able to say, hey, I'm a traitor.
00:04:00
Speaker 4: I'll just have to.
00:04:01
Speaker 2: Try to pick it up, which ultimately I was able to read that he was a faithful very quickly after I kept my distance from him for three or four days because he went bright red at the beginning. And I was like, oh, if he is a traitor, I don't want to go down with him. So I'm going to keep my distance. But then as soon as I spoke to him after three or four days, like, are you a traitor? He's like, no, I could tell straight away it wasn't mine. So then I was like, okay, I can clear you way easier than I could clear anyone else.
00:04:27
Speaker 3: Me having the conversation with Luke last week about your twin potential advantage, did that stir up any trouble amongst the people that are on the show with you?
00:04:38
Speaker 2: Um, Well, we managed to keep our distance for the first few days when everyone's sort of on a whim and looking for any sort of lead to go off at the round table because you don't really have much information in those first few days. So, I think it was actually smart gameplay for us to stay away from each other because if we were talking to one another, people could be like, okay, well, one of you is a trader and then the other one is now in the know and then we could have gone bang, bang, both being banished straight away.
00:05:07
Speaker 4: So.
00:05:08
Speaker 2: I think we were smart to keep our distance. I think that's why you have to play it if you're in there with someone.
00:05:14
Speaker 4: That you know.
00:05:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just was more curious about having the conversation about, because there was a rumor online that you passed a note between the two of each other. And I guess the only people that would actually know whether or not you did that would be people that are in the cast or people that work on the show. I just wanted to know whether or not we could put that rumor to bed officially to put people's mind at rest.
00:05:35
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can, because we're both faithfuls at the end of the day. So if there was a note being slipped, it would be him having to say, I'm a trader. So then I'll know that he was a trader. But ultimately, we're both faithful. So it could not be a note. You can't put a note saying, I'm a faithful, because he could still be a trader saying that. So that would make zero sense there. I understand people trying to stretch things here, but... It's virtually impossible. That's why I kept my distance from him because I wasn't 100% sure he was a faithful.
00:06:07
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that's basically my gameplay. I'm a little bit confused, though. Yeah. You have to say it in a different way. I'm just confused by the question.
00:06:17
Speaker 3: Oh, I think that the theory was that you managed to work out who was a faithful, who was a traitor, and that was the information that was passed back and forth.
00:06:25
Speaker 1: That was where the rumour came from.
00:06:27
Speaker 2: Oh, no. I was like, why were we so certain on like an Alvin and an Alex? Not what they passed us a note. I wish I had a note passed on to me. Then I wouldn't be sitting here like banished at the end. I would have got him.
00:06:42
Speaker 4: I would have been there at the end being like, oh, Chrissy's a traitor.
00:06:45
Speaker 2: You know, I would have been honing in on Kirby and Reese. Yeah.
00:06:50
Speaker 4: No, I didn't get any note. And if I did, you know, I could have been sitting in a win position. True.
00:06:57
Speaker 3: And then I think what's also interesting is that this season has been quite remarkable to watch. You've got a few and fewer faithfuls, but you've still got these two traitors. And it still seems almost impossible to pick them. And you haven't really, no one really has gone after Kirby very strongly whatsoever. What do you think the rationale behind that is? Like, why haven't people gone harder for Kirby? Do you think it comes down to her playing a smarter game and building better friendships?
00:07:22
Speaker 1: Or what's happened?
00:07:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Kirby's incredibly intelligent. I think you have to be a really strong trader. But, I mean, there's two ways of playing a trader. It's staying, like, quiet and seeing how that goes for you or, you know, really trying to be a detective and work with the ones who are being real busy and talking all the time. which I was, which Kira was, which AJ was, if you get into that group, I think towards the end, that's going to be more advantageous to a trader. Because if you are just sitting by the fireplace all day, you're going to be, you're going to at one point come under suspicion. Like, why aren't you doing anything? Why aren't you giving us your thoughts and feelings? You know, why are you just playing this?
00:08:02
Speaker 4: I don't know who a faithful or trader is.
00:08:04
Speaker 2: Like, that's not going to work towards the end. So people are really good at getting in the right relationships with people, figuring out where everyone was thinking and making you just trust her enough more than the others who weren't really doing anything. Like, what do we think of that person there? And give you enough suggestions like, oh, maybe we should start looking at them. And it was like, yeah, you know what? They've been sitting there not.
00:08:27
Speaker 4: Doing too much. Let's look into them. Really good at doing that.
00:08:31
Speaker 3: Well, she's playing a smart game because I think that she's putting ideas into people's heads all the time. And, you know, that's the really strong way of being able to win this game is not necessarily say this is what it is, but just planting seeds and letting those things grow. But like if you're comparing Reese and Kirby at this stage, like who do you think is a better trader out of those two?
00:08:51
Speaker 2: Well, being in there, I think since Reece was recruited, obviously I wasn't aware, but Reece never really changed on day one and played that I don't know really what's going on game better than anybody. So when Reece was brought in as a trailer.
00:09:05
Speaker 4: There wasn't really much change in Reece.
00:09:08
Speaker 2: So Reece plays that version really, really well, but ultimately was getting more fire than Kirby. in that final round table because it's only so long. You can only last playing that game, I feel, for so long before you're going to come under hate. You have to want to be as a faithful. If you're a trader, you need to obviously come across like faithful. And when you are faithful, you're on the hunt. You're trying to figure it out. So if you're not doing.
00:09:39
Speaker 4: That enough, you're going to come under fire.
00:09:40
Speaker 3: I'm actually really surprised at how well the two of you both have done. You've done so well in this, in terms of being very loud faithfuls and actually going really hard. I think it was Dicko who said to me that you guys were like Helsinki or, you know, like proper greater hunters. And in other series, people are like, don't be so loud. Don't be so boisterous, you know, try and, you know, minimalize your game in that regard. Do you think there was a potential of maybe minimalizing your game just a little bit and that may have kept you maybe further in the competition and potentially in the finale?
00:10:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: I think my gameplay was going quite smoothly until Luke sort of changed that where he came to me and i you know i trust luke in there it's like you know i've got a lot of trust with the contestants in in this show you know i've worked very hard at getting a lot of relationships going so when luke came to me it's like look i'm starting to really feel it was alvin And, you know, I was quite close to Alvin. Then it started to make sense to me. He was like, I'm 100% making the move tonight. I had to make the choice. Like, do I back him up and give him my voice as well at the round table?
00:10:47
Speaker 4: Or do I wait?
00:10:47
Speaker 2: Because it's still pretty early in the game. Do I try to sneak through a few more rounds before I make my big move? But, you know, I was like, okay, he's going for it. I also kind of do want to get a trade-off. So I jumped in. It was, yeah, I couldn't hold off. You know, it was just too fun trying to get a trade-off.
00:11:07
Speaker 4: And once you get one, you're like, oh, that's such a thrill. So, try to get another.
00:11:12
Speaker 2: But when you do it that early, you are obviously, when you get it wrong, you're are they going to get?
00:11:19
Speaker 3: Did you actually vomit when you got rid of Lawson? Because there was a lot of vomiting sounds. I was wondering whether they saved us for the television edit.
00:11:27
Speaker 4: Um, no, no, I, I do. I've actually got, um, a hernia.
00:11:31
Speaker 2: Um, And sometimes when I'm drinking and when I have a lot of anxiety, it can create like that reflux feeling.
00:11:41
Speaker 4: Okay. So I do get that.
00:11:44
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I wasn't throwing up, but I was getting like that heartburn feeling.
00:11:49
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: Which I sometimes get, but that was because of the emotional reaction of sending Lawson home. So I felt bad and then I realized, okay, like, My chance now of winning the show had gone downhill because Lawson trusted me.
00:12:02
Speaker 1: Eliminating people that would actually be on your side. Very clever.
00:12:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like, that's not a good game plan.
00:12:08
Speaker 3: Is there any frustration about who we have left now as faithfuls, though? Because, like, you know, Chrissy and Kira, like, we've got some people left that are in the show that are probably.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: I'm not being.
00:12:19
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm being mean by saying this, but they're not exactly very.
00:12:23
Speaker 1: straightforward, like they're.
00:12:24
Speaker 3: Easily manipulated, sort of happy to quickly change their mind or just go by very small information. Do you think that that's a strategy to have kept those sorts of personalities around? And are they the right faithfuls left to be maybe getting the money?
00:12:37
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I think, you.
00:12:42
Speaker 2: But then again, you know, those two trust one another as well. So it's a big risk at the end of the day. But, you know, throw me in that hat as well. I'm pretty chaotic. You don't know exactly where I was going to go. You know, it was always going to be great TV, that final round table, you know. If you're going to choose three faithfuls who weren't going to trust one another, it would probably be those three there at the end. It's just all too chaotic. Like, love them both, but, you know, geez, we, yeah, we... We were just going at each other, weren't we, at that final round table?
00:13:15
Speaker 3: I just think it's so funny thinking about Chrissy Marsh trying to find and fight over $ 100, 000 or however much money is left.
00:13:23
Speaker 1: When she's living in like this giant... Because that's the thing.
00:13:25
Speaker 3: It's like when I heard about them casting this show and I was thinking of the housewives, I'm like, do housewives really want to go on a show where they can win $ 100, 000 to $ 250, 000 when they're buying Hermes bags for that kind of cash? Like....
00:13:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but it's still such a one-off opportunity to get to do some of the traders. Like, I look over my experiences on Taybay. Some of the things that you look back on in life say, I'm so fortunate that I've had that.
00:13:51
Speaker 4: Experience, more experience than the money.
00:13:54
Speaker 2: I'm sure if Chrissy is to win, you know, that money would be going to charity.
00:14:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, which is a good thing to do. Had you mentally worked out what you were going to spend the money on?
00:14:06
Speaker 4: Not quite.
00:14:07
Speaker 2: Probably towards my apartment, which I bought not too long ago. I was going to put some towards that and then a holiday and then business and all sorts. But no, you can't count the chickens until they hatch.
00:14:21
Speaker 4: My mum-in-law helped me. Sometimes I get a little bit too far in front.
00:14:26
Speaker 2: I mean, just be reminded. So I was, I was like, oh, you know, how nice would it be to have this? And then I could do that. But yeah, it's always, it always comes back to biting the bums and you have to let those dreams go, go away.
00:14:39
Speaker 1: I want to know about the notes from mum. What did mum say about traders? I want to know what she gave to the two of you.
00:14:44
Speaker 2: Oh no, like mum just always says to me, like, you know, I can sometimes just, you know, our personalities, like we're, And sometimes be quite confident and be like, this is what we're going.
00:14:53
Speaker 3: To go do.
00:14:54
Speaker 4: We're going to go achieve.
00:14:55
Speaker 2: Like we work together and then we say, you know, we've got this amazing job coming up and now we're going to get a good profit from this job. And she's always the one reminding us like, money's not in the account yet. The job's not done. You know, the chickens till they hatch. We just need to sometimes be reminded like that.
00:15:12
Speaker 1: She sounds like a smart woman.
00:15:13
Speaker 2: She's a very good mom. She's a smart lady. She's had to put up with Luke and I as sons and that's not an easy job.
00:15:19
Speaker 1: Well, I want to know who you want.
00:15:21
Speaker 3: I mean, everyone's talking about how successful this series has been, and we still don't know whether we're getting another series. So we might be getting ahead of ourselves, but would really like to know who you think would be great to sign up for the next series if that is going into production.
00:15:35
Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting seeing Olympians and all famous sports personalities in there.
00:15:41
Speaker 3: Oh, so you want to go away from reality TV people? You want sports?
00:15:46
Speaker 4: No more reality.
00:15:47
Speaker 2: We're still entertaining, but I like watching people who I also admire.
00:15:51
Speaker 4: I would love to see that.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: You don't admire any of these reality TV people?
00:15:54
Speaker 3: No.
00:15:55
Speaker 2: I think we're just all chaos and crazy people and we make good TV, but ultimately, you know, I don't think people should look up to me in terms of, you know, everything I've done in my life where someone like an Ian Thorpe who, you know, is sort of inspirational, especially when I was growing up, he was my favorite athlete. I'd love to see how they would go on their show like this, like put their minds.
00:16:18
Speaker 4: At a show like The Traders. Yeah. because unfortunately for Shane, it didn't work out. I'd like to see another one, Matt.
00:16:25
Speaker 1: Well, there we go. Dicko likes Shane as well.
00:16:29
Speaker 3: I've been asking people just a final behind-the-scenes secret, and my behind-the-scenes secret for you is what do you think was your biggest mistake? In the end, what is something you think you would really like to have corrected?
00:16:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've said it before that I didn't take a pattern pen. And I think, I know it's so simple, but actually pulling down your thoughts and thinking logically when you're writing out, you can be more logical. And then you can go back and say, okay, what happened on day one? What happened on day two? But so much happens every day. If you're not writing down notes, you'll forget easily what happened on day one or two.
00:17:06
Speaker 4: You're like, oh.
00:17:06
Speaker 3: Are you allowed to take a paper and pen in there though? Like, you know, you can. So you can take notes every night.
00:17:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can. But I didn't pack that. So I mean, I didn't have a pen to write on.
00:17:22
Speaker 1: There's the tip.
00:17:22
Speaker 4: I would go off.
00:17:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would be emotional and I would go off my feelings instead of being like, okay, let's think about this.
00:17:29
Speaker 4: Who voted for who at the round table on first day or second day?
00:17:32
Speaker 2: And try to find a pattern that way instead of going, oh, that person was sus today.
00:17:37
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, now they're.
00:17:38
Speaker 2: Starting to get on my radar and completely forget about what happened for the first five days.
00:17:43
Speaker 4: Because a round table is where you get.
00:17:45
Speaker 2: Your most information from. You can get ahead of yourself, as I said, and count the chickens before they hatch. I would do that and go, okay, that person's now showing real signs.
00:17:54
Speaker 4: I'm going to go then. And that's where I probably ultimately went wrong.
00:17:58
Speaker 3: No, I just don't think you can make too much of a bold decision and change your mind at the last second at a round table. Round table, you are getting a lot of information, but I think in terms of how I would play the game, I think I would be trying to stay quite strong with an overall gameplay rather than something small that happens in a moment.
00:18:16
Speaker 4: Oh, no, I completely agree with you.
00:18:18
Speaker 2: I had pretty much always made up my mind who I was going at the round table and I was always going to come in strong. And if I was correct, then people were going to be trusting me, especially with Lawson, you know. At that end, if I took out someone to be trusted me, and if, let's say, if I was correct, then the other faithfuls would come to me and say, okay, I'm on board with you.
00:18:37
Speaker 4: Like, if you want to take me to the end, you take me to the end.
00:18:40
Speaker 2: But it would ultimately end up that way. But what I'm saying is how people vote... at the round table and that's all very good information and it gives you more information than what can happen in the manner you know but just from conversations and so forth it's very hard to tell when people are lying but when people vote that's actual information and it doesn't get discussed enough and that's where i went wrong i would go off my fields instead of thinking logically why did that person vote that way you know and why have they voted this way for the last six.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: Nights I mean, it's a fascinating show. I've absolutely loved this series. I mean, I've loved the Australian version. I've done exit interviews for season one, season two, and season three. It's one of my favorite shows that's ever been created for television. I want to thank you for saying yes to it as well, because whilst I probably feel like I've narrowed down on you being twins in an advantage, I found that part of it so fascinating. Like I actually just, and both of you are very interesting boys who I've really enjoyed watching. I mean, I've watched all of it.
00:19:39
Speaker 4: Love Island.
00:19:41
Speaker 3: So, you know, I just thought it was really amazing and a psychological study as well.
00:19:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:19:48
Speaker 1: So thank you for saying yes to doing the show.
00:19:50
Speaker 2: No, I always will put my hand up to challenge ourselves. But, you know, we thought it was a disadvantage going on together. And ultimately, in previous seasons overseas, when people have gone on that know each other, it's always led to their demise.
00:20:06
Speaker 4: So, yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker 2: We were concerned about that. So to have lasted so long and then actually take centre stage and hold a lot of power in there, it was a lot of fun and showed our characters and we are divisive, but at the end of the day, we're just playing to.
00:20:24
Speaker 4: Win and we're competitors. And I'm glad that showed through the screens.
00:20:29
Speaker 3: Well, you contributed, definitely. When I think back to this series, I'll be thinking of the two of you. But anyway, chatting to the media about this, I'm sure there's lots of people excited to hear some of your behind-the-scenes takes on it all. And I look forward to seeing you on whatever show you turn up on next.
00:20:45
Speaker 4: Who knows what could be next? This could be it. It could be it.
00:20:48
Speaker 1: No, we've got Survivor. We've got more shows.
00:20:51
Speaker 3: I mean, do you think anyone in this current series of The Traders could go on Survivor? Do you think there's anyone that's a good Survivor player?
00:20:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, who hasn't been on Survivor. I mean, I would love to be on Survivor.
00:21:04
Speaker 4: Well, there we go. I think I would be very, very good at that game. Maybe Alex, very socially strong as well. I think she would be good at Survivor as well.
00:21:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd watch that with both of you on there, separately or together.
00:21:19
Speaker 1: I have to run. Enjoy chatting to the media. Thanks, Michael.
00:21:22
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it. I'll talk to you later.
00:21:24
Speaker 2: Have a good one.
00:21:24
Speaker 4: See you later.
00:21:25
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to shut this one off on this computer.
Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload, the podcast.
00:00:03
Speaker 2: Last week. Yeah, bye.
00:00:04
Speaker 1: G'day, guys.
00:00:05
Speaker 3: Welcome back to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and today we're talking The Traders Australia with one of this season's biggest players.
00:00:12
Speaker 1: It's Josh Packham.
00:00:13
Speaker 3: Josh entered the game alongside his identical twin brother, Luke. And from the moment they walked into the castle, there was one massive question hanging over them. Did having your twin in the game... give you an unfair advantage? Well, today, Josh answers that, including those rumors about notes being passed between the brothers and whether they were secretly sharing information. He also reveals why the twins actually avoided each other for the first few days, how quickly he was able to work out that Luke was a faithful, and why it was ultimately Luke who convinced him to make one of the biggest moves in his game, going after everyone. Josh also breaks down where his game went wrong, why voting out Lawson was such a disaster for him, and the surprisingly simple thing he wishes he'd taken into the castle that he believes could have completely changed his game. Plus, we talk about Kirby and Reese, the traitors, who Josh thinks played the better traitor game. who he'd like to see cast in the next season, and why he's putting his own hand up for Australian Survivor.
00:01:16
Speaker 1: There's a lot to unpack.
00:01:18
Speaker 3: This is Josh Packham from The Traders Australia on TV Reload.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: Hey, how are you?
00:01:24
Speaker 4: I'm good. I'm good. How are you, Ben?
00:01:25
Speaker 1: I'm doing very well. Nice to see you again. I haven't seen you in a while.
00:01:28
Speaker 4: It's been a while. It has.
00:01:30
Speaker 3: Did you think that you were going to come back to reality television after doing the block?
00:01:35
Speaker 2: After such a long absence, absolutely not. I thought my time was done. Obviously, Luke and I are a package deal. We've got a business now. It would be hard to put aside six to eight weeks for a show, which they.
00:01:49
Speaker 4: Usually last about that long.
00:01:51
Speaker 2: So, I thought our time was done and I was really surprised when we got the call up to go on the show and it worked out. It was only a two-week show at most. We can sort of put the business on hold for that long, have things running smoothly in the background and something completely different that we haven't done.
00:02:08
Speaker 4: So I was 100% in for it.
00:02:10
Speaker 3: What was the pitch like when you got the phone call and who got the phone call first? Is it like, who's going to take this call?
00:02:16
Speaker 4: I think I got the phone call. No, yeah, it was.
00:02:18
Speaker 2: I think I got the phone call because Luke's even more quiet than I am on socials where we don't really do too much.
00:02:24
Speaker 4: We don't have much online presence. We're pretty normal in our lives.
00:02:28
Speaker 2: Like we don't upload a photo once a week or, you know, do a story every day. It's just not the way we usually live our lives. So to get in contact with Luke is really difficult.
00:02:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: You know, he barely even reads his emails. I have to read all his emails, basically. So they had to get in contact with me.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: On paper, who makes a better person to do this show? Like, I think that the two of your personalities are actually quite different once people get to know the two of you. And I still am debating as to which one works better on this show than the other.
00:02:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's so difficult because we are very different.
00:03:01
Speaker 2: Luke's obviously more boisterous and he's very opinionated and he can't keep that to himself. He's a bit of a flabbergasted Luke. He can't keep secrets. And in that show, you have to obviously be able to keep quiet at some points. I think I can do a little bit better than Luke. So I always felt that I might go a little bit deeper than Luke, in all honesty. He would be a much better trader than I could have been.
00:03:26
Speaker 3: I'm just so curious about all of that because I just, I feel as though one of you had been made a traitor. It would have been, that's where all of this advantage, disadvantage conversation would have come into play because I don't think that either of you would have been able to keep that a secret if one of you had been made a traitor and the other hadn't.
00:03:43
Speaker 2: Well, you sort of have to keep it a secret because then you're breaking the rules. So, I mean, we would be able to read each other better than anyone else in the world, basically, as being twins. It's such a special relationship. But ultimately, he wouldn't be able to say, hey, I'm a traitor.
00:04:00
Speaker 4: I'll just have to.
00:04:01
Speaker 2: Try to pick it up, which ultimately I was able to read that he was a faithful very quickly after I kept my distance from him for three or four days because he went bright red at the beginning. And I was like, oh, if he is a traitor, I don't want to go down with him. So I'm going to keep my distance. But then as soon as I spoke to him after three or four days, like, are you a traitor? He's like, no, I could tell straight away it wasn't mine. So then I was like, okay, I can clear you way easier than I could clear anyone else.
00:04:27
Speaker 3: Me having the conversation with Luke last week about your twin potential advantage, did that stir up any trouble amongst the people that are on the show with you?
00:04:38
Speaker 2: Um, Well, we managed to keep our distance for the first few days when everyone's sort of on a whim and looking for any sort of lead to go off at the round table because you don't really have much information in those first few days. So, I think it was actually smart gameplay for us to stay away from each other because if we were talking to one another, people could be like, okay, well, one of you is a trader and then the other one is now in the know and then we could have gone bang, bang, both being banished straight away.
00:05:07
Speaker 4: So.
00:05:08
Speaker 2: I think we were smart to keep our distance. I think that's why you have to play it if you're in there with someone.
00:05:14
Speaker 4: That you know.
00:05:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just was more curious about having the conversation about, because there was a rumor online that you passed a note between the two of each other. And I guess the only people that would actually know whether or not you did that would be people that are in the cast or people that work on the show. I just wanted to know whether or not we could put that rumor to bed officially to put people's mind at rest.
00:05:35
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can, because we're both faithfuls at the end of the day. So if there was a note being slipped, it would be him having to say, I'm a trader. So then I'll know that he was a trader. But ultimately, we're both faithful. So it could not be a note. You can't put a note saying, I'm a faithful, because he could still be a trader saying that. So that would make zero sense there. I understand people trying to stretch things here, but... It's virtually impossible. That's why I kept my distance from him because I wasn't 100% sure he was a faithful.
00:06:07
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that's basically my gameplay. I'm a little bit confused, though. Yeah. You have to say it in a different way. I'm just confused by the question.
00:06:17
Speaker 3: Oh, I think that the theory was that you managed to work out who was a faithful, who was a traitor, and that was the information that was passed back and forth.
00:06:25
Speaker 1: That was where the rumour came from.
00:06:27
Speaker 2: Oh, no. I was like, why were we so certain on like an Alvin and an Alex? Not what they passed us a note. I wish I had a note passed on to me. Then I wouldn't be sitting here like banished at the end. I would have got him.
00:06:42
Speaker 4: I would have been there at the end being like, oh, Chrissy's a traitor.
00:06:45
Speaker 2: You know, I would have been honing in on Kirby and Reese. Yeah.
00:06:50
Speaker 4: No, I didn't get any note. And if I did, you know, I could have been sitting in a win position. True.
00:06:57
Speaker 3: And then I think what's also interesting is that this season has been quite remarkable to watch. You've got a few and fewer faithfuls, but you've still got these two traitors. And it still seems almost impossible to pick them. And you haven't really, no one really has gone after Kirby very strongly whatsoever. What do you think the rationale behind that is? Like, why haven't people gone harder for Kirby? Do you think it comes down to her playing a smarter game and building better friendships?
00:07:22
Speaker 1: Or what's happened?
00:07:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Kirby's incredibly intelligent. I think you have to be a really strong trader. But, I mean, there's two ways of playing a trader. It's staying, like, quiet and seeing how that goes for you or, you know, really trying to be a detective and work with the ones who are being real busy and talking all the time. which I was, which Kira was, which AJ was, if you get into that group, I think towards the end, that's going to be more advantageous to a trader. Because if you are just sitting by the fireplace all day, you're going to be, you're going to at one point come under suspicion. Like, why aren't you doing anything? Why aren't you giving us your thoughts and feelings? You know, why are you just playing this?
00:08:02
Speaker 4: I don't know who a faithful or trader is.
00:08:04
Speaker 2: Like, that's not going to work towards the end. So people are really good at getting in the right relationships with people, figuring out where everyone was thinking and making you just trust her enough more than the others who weren't really doing anything. Like, what do we think of that person there? And give you enough suggestions like, oh, maybe we should start looking at them. And it was like, yeah, you know what? They've been sitting there not.
00:08:27
Speaker 4: Doing too much. Let's look into them. Really good at doing that.
00:08:31
Speaker 3: Well, she's playing a smart game because I think that she's putting ideas into people's heads all the time. And, you know, that's the really strong way of being able to win this game is not necessarily say this is what it is, but just planting seeds and letting those things grow. But like if you're comparing Reese and Kirby at this stage, like who do you think is a better trader out of those two?
00:08:51
Speaker 2: Well, being in there, I think since Reece was recruited, obviously I wasn't aware, but Reece never really changed on day one and played that I don't know really what's going on game better than anybody. So when Reece was brought in as a trailer.
00:09:05
Speaker 4: There wasn't really much change in Reece.
00:09:08
Speaker 2: So Reece plays that version really, really well, but ultimately was getting more fire than Kirby. in that final round table because it's only so long. You can only last playing that game, I feel, for so long before you're going to come under hate. You have to want to be as a faithful. If you're a trader, you need to obviously come across like faithful. And when you are faithful, you're on the hunt. You're trying to figure it out. So if you're not doing.
00:09:39
Speaker 4: That enough, you're going to come under fire.
00:09:40
Speaker 3: I'm actually really surprised at how well the two of you both have done. You've done so well in this, in terms of being very loud faithfuls and actually going really hard. I think it was Dicko who said to me that you guys were like Helsinki or, you know, like proper greater hunters. And in other series, people are like, don't be so loud. Don't be so boisterous, you know, try and, you know, minimalize your game in that regard. Do you think there was a potential of maybe minimalizing your game just a little bit and that may have kept you maybe further in the competition and potentially in the finale?
00:10:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: I think my gameplay was going quite smoothly until Luke sort of changed that where he came to me and i you know i trust luke in there it's like you know i've got a lot of trust with the contestants in in this show you know i've worked very hard at getting a lot of relationships going so when luke came to me it's like look i'm starting to really feel it was alvin And, you know, I was quite close to Alvin. Then it started to make sense to me. He was like, I'm 100% making the move tonight. I had to make the choice. Like, do I back him up and give him my voice as well at the round table?
00:10:47
Speaker 4: Or do I wait?
00:10:47
Speaker 2: Because it's still pretty early in the game. Do I try to sneak through a few more rounds before I make my big move? But, you know, I was like, okay, he's going for it. I also kind of do want to get a trade-off. So I jumped in. It was, yeah, I couldn't hold off. You know, it was just too fun trying to get a trade-off.
00:11:07
Speaker 4: And once you get one, you're like, oh, that's such a thrill. So, try to get another.
00:11:12
Speaker 2: But when you do it that early, you are obviously, when you get it wrong, you're are they going to get?
00:11:19
Speaker 3: Did you actually vomit when you got rid of Lawson? Because there was a lot of vomiting sounds. I was wondering whether they saved us for the television edit.
00:11:27
Speaker 4: Um, no, no, I, I do. I've actually got, um, a hernia.
00:11:31
Speaker 2: Um, And sometimes when I'm drinking and when I have a lot of anxiety, it can create like that reflux feeling.
00:11:41
Speaker 4: Okay. So I do get that.
00:11:44
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I wasn't throwing up, but I was getting like that heartburn feeling.
00:11:49
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: Which I sometimes get, but that was because of the emotional reaction of sending Lawson home. So I felt bad and then I realized, okay, like, My chance now of winning the show had gone downhill because Lawson trusted me.
00:12:02
Speaker 1: Eliminating people that would actually be on your side. Very clever.
00:12:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like, that's not a good game plan.
00:12:08
Speaker 3: Is there any frustration about who we have left now as faithfuls, though? Because, like, you know, Chrissy and Kira, like, we've got some people left that are in the show that are probably.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: I'm not being.
00:12:19
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm being mean by saying this, but they're not exactly very.
00:12:23
Speaker 1: straightforward, like they're.
00:12:24
Speaker 3: Easily manipulated, sort of happy to quickly change their mind or just go by very small information. Do you think that that's a strategy to have kept those sorts of personalities around? And are they the right faithfuls left to be maybe getting the money?
00:12:37
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I think, you.
00:12:42
Speaker 2: But then again, you know, those two trust one another as well. So it's a big risk at the end of the day. But, you know, throw me in that hat as well. I'm pretty chaotic. You don't know exactly where I was going to go. You know, it was always going to be great TV, that final round table, you know. If you're going to choose three faithfuls who weren't going to trust one another, it would probably be those three there at the end. It's just all too chaotic. Like, love them both, but, you know, geez, we, yeah, we... We were just going at each other, weren't we, at that final round table?
00:13:15
Speaker 3: I just think it's so funny thinking about Chrissy Marsh trying to find and fight over $ 100, 000 or however much money is left.
00:13:23
Speaker 1: When she's living in like this giant... Because that's the thing.
00:13:25
Speaker 3: It's like when I heard about them casting this show and I was thinking of the housewives, I'm like, do housewives really want to go on a show where they can win $ 100, 000 to $ 250, 000 when they're buying Hermes bags for that kind of cash? Like....
00:13:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but it's still such a one-off opportunity to get to do some of the traders. Like, I look over my experiences on Taybay. Some of the things that you look back on in life say, I'm so fortunate that I've had that.
00:13:51
Speaker 4: Experience, more experience than the money.
00:13:54
Speaker 2: I'm sure if Chrissy is to win, you know, that money would be going to charity.
00:14:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, which is a good thing to do. Had you mentally worked out what you were going to spend the money on?
00:14:06
Speaker 4: Not quite.
00:14:07
Speaker 2: Probably towards my apartment, which I bought not too long ago. I was going to put some towards that and then a holiday and then business and all sorts. But no, you can't count the chickens until they hatch.
00:14:21
Speaker 4: My mum-in-law helped me. Sometimes I get a little bit too far in front.
00:14:26
Speaker 2: I mean, just be reminded. So I was, I was like, oh, you know, how nice would it be to have this? And then I could do that. But yeah, it's always, it always comes back to biting the bums and you have to let those dreams go, go away.
00:14:39
Speaker 1: I want to know about the notes from mum. What did mum say about traders? I want to know what she gave to the two of you.
00:14:44
Speaker 2: Oh no, like mum just always says to me, like, you know, I can sometimes just, you know, our personalities, like we're, And sometimes be quite confident and be like, this is what we're going.
00:14:53
Speaker 3: To go do.
00:14:54
Speaker 4: We're going to go achieve.
00:14:55
Speaker 2: Like we work together and then we say, you know, we've got this amazing job coming up and now we're going to get a good profit from this job. And she's always the one reminding us like, money's not in the account yet. The job's not done. You know, the chickens till they hatch. We just need to sometimes be reminded like that.
00:15:12
Speaker 1: She sounds like a smart woman.
00:15:13
Speaker 2: She's a very good mom. She's a smart lady. She's had to put up with Luke and I as sons and that's not an easy job.
00:15:19
Speaker 1: Well, I want to know who you want.
00:15:21
Speaker 3: I mean, everyone's talking about how successful this series has been, and we still don't know whether we're getting another series. So we might be getting ahead of ourselves, but would really like to know who you think would be great to sign up for the next series if that is going into production.
00:15:35
Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting seeing Olympians and all famous sports personalities in there.
00:15:41
Speaker 3: Oh, so you want to go away from reality TV people? You want sports?
00:15:46
Speaker 4: No more reality.
00:15:47
Speaker 2: We're still entertaining, but I like watching people who I also admire.
00:15:51
Speaker 4: I would love to see that.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: You don't admire any of these reality TV people?
00:15:54
Speaker 3: No.
00:15:55
Speaker 2: I think we're just all chaos and crazy people and we make good TV, but ultimately, you know, I don't think people should look up to me in terms of, you know, everything I've done in my life where someone like an Ian Thorpe who, you know, is sort of inspirational, especially when I was growing up, he was my favorite athlete. I'd love to see how they would go on their show like this, like put their minds.
00:16:18
Speaker 4: At a show like The Traders. Yeah. because unfortunately for Shane, it didn't work out. I'd like to see another one, Matt.
00:16:25
Speaker 1: Well, there we go. Dicko likes Shane as well.
00:16:29
Speaker 3: I've been asking people just a final behind-the-scenes secret, and my behind-the-scenes secret for you is what do you think was your biggest mistake? In the end, what is something you think you would really like to have corrected?
00:16:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've said it before that I didn't take a pattern pen. And I think, I know it's so simple, but actually pulling down your thoughts and thinking logically when you're writing out, you can be more logical. And then you can go back and say, okay, what happened on day one? What happened on day two? But so much happens every day. If you're not writing down notes, you'll forget easily what happened on day one or two.
00:17:06
Speaker 4: You're like, oh.
00:17:06
Speaker 3: Are you allowed to take a paper and pen in there though? Like, you know, you can. So you can take notes every night.
00:17:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can. But I didn't pack that. So I mean, I didn't have a pen to write on.
00:17:22
Speaker 1: There's the tip.
00:17:22
Speaker 4: I would go off.
00:17:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would be emotional and I would go off my feelings instead of being like, okay, let's think about this.
00:17:29
Speaker 4: Who voted for who at the round table on first day or second day?
00:17:32
Speaker 2: And try to find a pattern that way instead of going, oh, that person was sus today.
00:17:37
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, now they're.
00:17:38
Speaker 2: Starting to get on my radar and completely forget about what happened for the first five days.
00:17:43
Speaker 4: Because a round table is where you get.
00:17:45
Speaker 2: Your most information from. You can get ahead of yourself, as I said, and count the chickens before they hatch. I would do that and go, okay, that person's now showing real signs.
00:17:54
Speaker 4: I'm going to go then. And that's where I probably ultimately went wrong.
00:17:58
Speaker 3: No, I just don't think you can make too much of a bold decision and change your mind at the last second at a round table. Round table, you are getting a lot of information, but I think in terms of how I would play the game, I think I would be trying to stay quite strong with an overall gameplay rather than something small that happens in a moment.
00:18:16
Speaker 4: Oh, no, I completely agree with you.
00:18:18
Speaker 2: I had pretty much always made up my mind who I was going at the round table and I was always going to come in strong. And if I was correct, then people were going to be trusting me, especially with Lawson, you know. At that end, if I took out someone to be trusted me, and if, let's say, if I was correct, then the other faithfuls would come to me and say, okay, I'm on board with you.
00:18:37
Speaker 4: Like, if you want to take me to the end, you take me to the end.
00:18:40
Speaker 2: But it would ultimately end up that way. But what I'm saying is how people vote... at the round table and that's all very good information and it gives you more information than what can happen in the manner you know but just from conversations and so forth it's very hard to tell when people are lying but when people vote that's actual information and it doesn't get discussed enough and that's where i went wrong i would go off my fields instead of thinking logically why did that person vote that way you know and why have they voted this way for the last six.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: Nights I mean, it's a fascinating show. I've absolutely loved this series. I mean, I've loved the Australian version. I've done exit interviews for season one, season two, and season three. It's one of my favorite shows that's ever been created for television. I want to thank you for saying yes to it as well, because whilst I probably feel like I've narrowed down on you being twins in an advantage, I found that part of it so fascinating. Like I actually just, and both of you are very interesting boys who I've really enjoyed watching. I mean, I've watched all of it.
00:19:39
Speaker 4: Love Island.
00:19:41
Speaker 3: So, you know, I just thought it was really amazing and a psychological study as well.
00:19:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:19:48
Speaker 1: So thank you for saying yes to doing the show.
00:19:50
Speaker 2: No, I always will put my hand up to challenge ourselves. But, you know, we thought it was a disadvantage going on together. And ultimately, in previous seasons overseas, when people have gone on that know each other, it's always led to their demise.
00:20:06
Speaker 4: So, yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker 2: We were concerned about that. So to have lasted so long and then actually take centre stage and hold a lot of power in there, it was a lot of fun and showed our characters and we are divisive, but at the end of the day, we're just playing to.
00:20:24
Speaker 4: Win and we're competitors. And I'm glad that showed through the screens.
00:20:29
Speaker 3: Well, you contributed, definitely. When I think back to this series, I'll be thinking of the two of you. But anyway, chatting to the media about this, I'm sure there's lots of people excited to hear some of your behind-the-scenes takes on it all. And I look forward to seeing you on whatever show you turn up on next.
00:20:45
Speaker 4: Who knows what could be next? This could be it. It could be it.
00:20:48
Speaker 1: No, we've got Survivor. We've got more shows.
00:20:51
Speaker 3: I mean, do you think anyone in this current series of The Traders could go on Survivor? Do you think there's anyone that's a good Survivor player?
00:20:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, who hasn't been on Survivor. I mean, I would love to be on Survivor.
00:21:04
Speaker 4: Well, there we go. I think I would be very, very good at that game. Maybe Alex, very socially strong as well. I think she would be good at Survivor as well.
00:21:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd watch that with both of you on there, separately or together.
00:21:19
Speaker 1: I have to run. Enjoy chatting to the media. Thanks, Michael.
00:21:22
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it. I'll talk to you later.
00:21:24
Speaker 2: Have a good one.
00:21:24
Speaker 4: See you later.
00:21:25
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to shut this one off on this computer.
