Weekly Scrap #371 – Kyle Romagus & Ian Bennett: Book Release Show

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A lot of what you talk about is decision making and especially decision making on the nozzle.
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And let's be clear decision making on the nozzle doesn't matter if you're coming from FDNY or some podunk place in the middle of Eastern Washington with a bunch, you know, with six volunteers.
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Once you go inside and you're on the nozzle, the decisions are the same.
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Firehouse Vigilance presents the weekly scrap, a podcast dedicated to the never-ending fight against complacency.
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Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance.
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It is weekly scrap number 371.
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It is the book release special.
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And of course, Kyle Ramagus is here with the Ramagus Papers releasing and also releasing technically, technically tomorrow, but also available today because why not?
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It is Learning to Burn author Ian Bennett.
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Book release, not even planned, but on the same, basically the same 24 hours.
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So, not a lot of uh fluff here on the intros.
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I'm gonna blast through these intros so we can get right to the scrap and talking about these books.
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Here we go.
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Kyle Romagus is smoothbore cartel.
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He is the man behind Engine Company Resurrection.
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He is a member of the Brothers in Battle Cadre, Oathkeeper, a force in the fire service, as well as a sought-after public speaker and one of the best hands-on instructors.
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Hold your applause.
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Ian Bennett is a 20-year veteran of the service and is a captain with the Seattle Fire Department, owner of West Coast Fire Training, which helps departments across the country implement and improve live fire training in fixed facilities and acquired structures, member of the NFBA 1400 committee, instructor for the IAFF evidence-based fire ground operations course, and a technical panel member of the FSRI study, fire dynamics, and firefighting tactics and multi-story residential structures.
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Yeah, yeah, such a mouthful.
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We gotta work on these titles.
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It has been a man, I'm excited about this show.
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I'm excited about everything we're gonna talk about.
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Welcome, both of you, my brothers.
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Hey, happy to be here.
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Thanks for having us, Corley.
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Yeah, man.
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Proud to be here, buddy.
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Anything I left out of the intros that you guys feel is important to add right now at the beginning.
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Well, best-selling author.
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Excuse me.
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Yeah, there he is.
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Uh, I just gotta say, Marshall Boyd, you are the winner of the swag bag.
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Nice guess, buddy.
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There you go.
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He did guess that Ian Bennett was gonna be the uh mystery guest, and so there we go.
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Uh, audience, get your questions ready for Kyle and myself.
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As always, Sam is in the chat, he is monitoring the chat and ready to field your questions so that we can throw them at Kyle and Ian.
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And here we go.
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I will talk about the beautiful sponsors and we will get right into the scrap.
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Yeah, first sponsor is uh Colonel Taylor.
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There we go.
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Colonel Taylor, I'm black and mild.
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Yeah.
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UL Research Institutes, Fire Safety Research Institute offers free fire service training through their fire safety academy platform.
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You can access it all for free, anytime, anywhere.
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Head to fsri.org slash weekly scrap to get started.
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Nothing but uh the best resources available, and it's free.
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That's the best part about the whole thing.
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Fsri.org slash weekly scrap.
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There we go.
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Mouthful done.
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Sponsors, thank you so much.
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I love you.
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And we are into the book release special.
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Ian, I'm going to you first.
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I'm going to talk to you and I'm going to go to each of you in order.
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Ian, I'm going to hit you up first and say, hey, learning to burn.
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That is the book.
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It's releasing tomorrow.
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It's available on Amazon now.
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It's available.
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I think it's fire engineering.
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Go there and order it too, or is it tomorrow?
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Yeah.
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Uh, so it's basically designed to be your go-to manual for live fire training and fixed facilities and acquired structures.
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Um, basically, from top to bottom.
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Basically, you could use it to start from nothing.
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We start with the philosophy of why we use live fire training, what we should use it for, how to prepare students for live fire training, how stress reactions work in live fire training, all the way up to, hey, here's some suggestions about how you should design your fixed facility.
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Here's how you prep your acquired structure.
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These are the specific risks that you're going to run into in acquired structures, the specific risks in acquired structures, sample evolutions from like the most basic, like a single company and two instructors, all the way up to hey, I'm going to run three different fires in an acquired structure on uh three different floors.
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So, like a one-stop shop for every every need you got for live fire training.
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Oh, so it gets nuts and bolts into the weeds.
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How to, very, very how to.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, I built it because you know, I started teaching at State Academy here in Washington.
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We were doing live fire training for my department, and you know, both these places have been doing live fire training since before I'd been born, right?
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And I show up, and how am I getting my information?
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There's not a manual that people are throwing in my on my desk.
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Instead, it's it's word of mouth, right?
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It's literally word of mouth.
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A guy retires and we lose 20 years of knowledge.
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We go to the state academy, rules are changing left and right.
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I mean, the state academy had been around for 50 years when I got there.
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And we should have had a manual for that place that said on the second Tuesday of every September, if the wind's out in the north at five miles an hour, if you want fire in this room to travel 14 feet down the hallway, you need a fuel load like this.
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Open this door, close this window.
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None of that existed.
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It doesn't exist, I couldn't find it anywhere, right?
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Uh, like NFPA 1403, that's fine.
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Um, but like none of that was addressing problems that I kept running into.
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So basically talked to a bunch of people, read a bunch of books, started experimenting with solutions, and then writing things down, started teaching a class, and then everybody's favorite guy, Brian Crush, was like, hey man, you get you got to write a book, right?
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After I taught my class for him.
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And so that was that was the genesis.
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It's it's what I wish somebody had just thrown in my lab when I first started doing live fire training.
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No, I love that.
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I love that because there's a theme there.
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I know.
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Uh Kyle, talk to us, yeah, about the Ramagus Papers.
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Well, um, the Ramagus Papers is the book that I wish that someone would have handed me when I was a proby.
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Um, so some of you know the story behind the book of search and my missing article in it.
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And the mindset of writing the book came out of that.
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Uh, talked about it with Scott on his podcast, but um Corley asked me to write the article, Victim on the Nozzle, and I wrote it like nine times and deleted it all nine times.
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I didn't like it.
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And uh it got to the point I just didn't think it was good enough to go on the book.
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Um, and it got to the point to where uh the book was getting stalled because my article wasn't coming, and I was like, bro, just print the book, it's not happening.
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And uh yeah, uh I've been writing articles for a long time, never thought they were good enough to be published.
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Um, I would always just kind of either delete them or uh get rid of them.
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And uh Scott was the first one to say, hey man, instead of pushing the delete button, uh push the send button.
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And then uh I started doing that with him a little bit.
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And then uh shortly after that podcast came out, Corley called me.
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Uh Rob called me, uh, my our buddy, friend of the show, Rob Fisher, and he was like, Yeah, man, uh you should start writing these articles for a book.
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And that's kind of where the thought process of the Romagus papers came from, although it was talked about for a long time.
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Uh, but the book itself is uh a collection of articles.
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I tried to keep them uh about 1,200 to 1,300 words a piece.
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Uh I wanted uh them to be sectioned off to where you could take, you know, a conversation that you're having with somebody and take this section of the book and then uh go that way.
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It's not like a chronological order chapter one through 12.
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You know, I I didn't want to do it.
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Well, I guess one through 29, um, but I didn't want it to be that, you know, I want it to be content driven about the way we should be thinking on the fire ground.
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And the way I teach in my lectures is the same way that it comes out in the book, is the you don't have to be a fireman to understand what we're saying in in the Romagus papers, right?
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Like one of the the side note goals of the book would be like you could hand this to a member of the public and they could read it and they understand what gold gold standard fire tag looks like.
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And hopefully we'll get to a point to where people in the public actually read this book and then go to their local fire station and then start asking them questions about how they perform fire tech, you know, put people on the spot a little bit.
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Like, you know, um, I think accountability is necessary for the fire service, and it's a really a book about how to think, you know, that's the the main uh spider web and weave through the whole thing is how to think on the engine company.
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Right on, man.
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Yeah.
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So they're almost two different styles of books because one is mindset, how to think, and one is how to do step-by-step instructions with no matter where you're starting.
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Yes, is that fair?
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Uh I mean, there is a lot of in my book, there is a lot about how you think as well.
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Okay, because I think a lot of what gets us in trouble in live fire training is people just going the wrong direction in in just their whole mental process.
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I mean, the skills of live fire training actually are not super complicated, just like the most of the skills of firefighting aren't super complicated.
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But if you're in the if you're in the wrong headspace, you can you can create problems for yourself really fast.
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That's why I love Kyle's book.
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I've I've only read about a third of it.
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Um, got busy with uh other stuff in the department, but uh the whole thinking piece is great.
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Like we were saying before we got started, there we've got a ton of how to do in the department, in our departments, like lots of skills.
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Uh, we're light on mental mindset and decision making.
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So I think I love what Kyle's got going on.
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Right on.
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And I didn't want to pigeonhole like yours is this one, and there's this one.
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I no, no, I get it.
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No, yeah, absolutely.
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All right, we got questions coming at you from the audience, and Rob Fisher is leading it off.
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Rob Effen Fisher, I have to say it right.
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There's not many people who yes, oh, okay.
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So these are these are questions that Rob received from someone.
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Third party Rob questions.
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Third party Rob questions.
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There we go.
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Okay.
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Rob robbed them.
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Rob okay.
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Uh Rob Fisher wants to know of everything on the Romagus papers, what do you think experienced firefighters are going to push back on the hardest?
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And before they decide you're wrong, what would you tell them to go out and actually try on the drill ground?
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So what do you think they're gonna try?
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Man, you're pretty intimate with these two.
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I'm gonna say the hierarchy, the hierarchy part one and part two is probably what people are gonna push back on more than anything.
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Um the hierarchy part one and two talks about hit and move versus flowing move, the reasons why.
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Uh detailed uh discussions about when and where.
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You know, um, I think uh that's gonna be, and it's always gonna be uh the continual pushback of that specific topic right there.
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That's the hardest topic to get uh experienced firefighters to get a hold of because we've been trained so long to react to conditions that make us uncomfortable.
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And our levels of PPE have pushed the pendulum a little bit too far on being uncomfortable in our six layers of protection and our respiratory protection and our Nomex hood and space gloves, you know.
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Um, and they've never had to do that.
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Like when you when people see a 15-second Instagram reel of me teaching people how to flow and move, they're like, I'll never I've I've never had to do that, or I can't do that in one of these buildings that I have.
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And that's the number one combat.
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So I would say, yeah, the hierarchy is probably gonna be the one that pushed back on the most.
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But if they actually read it and they read part one and part two, like it's so spelled out that the debate is over.
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Right.
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You know what I mean?
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Like I I think personally, uh I tried to leave no stone unturned uh on that particular topic, you know.
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And if if they get into the the book long enough, because hierarchy part two is the last chapter, so like they gotta go all the way to the end to get the other side of the coin, you know.
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So I guess they could just flip through the back and just go to the next one.
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Um, but yeah, if they get that far and they go through the book, I think that the debate, a lot of these debates will be over, you know, if they really start learning how to think.
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Ian, same question to you, because I think it I think it's applicable.
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When you started the book, and and what do you think experienced trainers and people who do a lot of live fire training, is there anything that you think is controversial that people would say, I don't know if I'll agree with this or anything like that?
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Uh the biggest pushback I've ever always gotten is on fuel loads, right?
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You show people the fuel loads required to generate realistic looking conditions, and people get really, really worried, right?
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I mean, you just look at the stuff I did for fire engineering, just with a super basic kind of mid-range fuel package.
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Half the comments are like, Man, why so much fuel?
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Why so much fuel?
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And I think people are just so used to like non-realistic conditions, like lots of smoke from smoke barrels and a little fire in a room somewhere, they can't, they have a hard time envisioning the value that you can get, uh, presentations you can show with larger fuel loads.
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The other big pushback is emphasizing quality over quantity.
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Guys really think it's super important that everybody gets on the nozzle so they can flow and move against a fire.
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Well, if you're flowing and moving against a punk camp fire, it doesn't matter.
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And so, like, it's way better to have four, five good fire attacks against a realistic fire in your fixed facility and only have four of the students watch it, or like have five students do it well, have your other 15 students watch it, and then I mean they'll get so much more value out of that than actually flown and move.
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And if you want them just flow and move down the hallway and make the right-hand turn, just take the fire away or put them in fake smoke.
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But what they need to see is a realistic fire and the effects of a good flowing line on that fire or what you can do in your gear with that fire.
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Two good fires would be way better than 16.
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Like we're going through the reps with a little smoke and heat.
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No, I love it.
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No, I yeah, I didn't even think about it, but uh, we do put a massive emphasis on the quantity over the quality.
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The Todd Edwards coming at you, one of the guests who was not the mystery guest, Todd Edwards coming at you says, Ian, how do we get the fire service bought back into conducting more live fire scenario training?
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Million dollar question, so go for it.
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Um, we have to one, we have to show them the value, right?
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And I think one of the big frustrations that we have is that when we put guys in smoke, they come out, we're worried about cancer, and all they do is, you know, campfire in a corner with smoke barrels.
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Everybody knows that that's not real.
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Just go on any YouTube compilation of fire videos, and we know that's not what the students are going to face in real life, right?
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:31.600
So we have to show them how to make real conditions.
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Like, and then they'll buy in.
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Like once you can make real conditions, they can buy in.
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:46.480
And then we have to show chiefs, safety officers, the people who are rightfully concerned about guys getting fried, that we have a system for doing it safely.
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Right?
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Anybody can build a big fire.
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And but if you don't know what you're doing, you're gonna you're gonna burn guys, or you're gonna you maybe won't hurt guys, but you'll burn up six helmets, and then the chief's like, hey, my training budget's out the window.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:08.400
Like, you know, I I if you're in a small department with you know four stations and you melt six helmets and craze a face piece, like that's a hit.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:14.319
You gotta be able to do realistic training without hurting guys and without burning up a bunch of gear.
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.759
No, great question from uh Todd.
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:20.640
Thank you for it.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.000
Great answer from Ian.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.160
Relentless rescue is also coming at Ian.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:31.519
At what point do you think we can try to add live victim component to live fire training?
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:36.720
Obviously, we can't get victims in burn rooms, but if you believe the idea, what would be your threshold?
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:38.000
Todd can.
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:42.160
Yeah.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:56.640
Um from and if like if you just want my personal opinion, I think that's gonna be a we've got a long way to go as an industry where we could feel good about pushing that agenda.
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:07.279
We gotta figure out how to just do realistic live fire training more generally as a fire service, and then we can work on you know live victims.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:12.480
I think that that's we're we're jumping the gun if you want to go that way.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:18.880
Now, if you wanted to think about rules for that, you just have to figure out ways to keep that live person safe, right?
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:36.240
How we when everything goes wrong, like the pumping engine fails, and the guy on the nozzle like trips and breaks their leg, and so there's no one's coming for that victim, how can they just step out and leave without without getting hurt?
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:37.359
Right?
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:38.480
Sure, sure.
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:39.359
No, it makes sense.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:45.839
I like the fact that you say, uh, let's not get the cart before the horse, let's get live fire everywhere, and then we'll figure out how to add to it.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:48.319
Love it.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:48.799
Okay.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:50.720
Yeah, got it.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:51.359
Got it.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:51.680
Okay.
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:54.880
I'm coming at you, Kyle from Mike Foscaris.
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:00.880
Kyle, now that you're a BC, has your view of coordinated ventilation changed at all?
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:03.359
What does coordination mean to you?
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:11.519
ID, does it be explicit radio confirmation, or can engine truck command work off shared benchmarks and fire ground cues?
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:13.039
What do you think?
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:22.880
Uh I would say coordinate to the first part of the question, coordination of ventilation has changed for me because I'm watching fires from the outside now and not the inside.
00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.400
You know, so like that was a tough thing for me as an engine captain.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:33.200
Um, being able to see the effects of on the exterior of ventilation and timing and everything like that.
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.839
You know, but we've always used benchmarks in East County.
00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:37.519
Uh, some guys are better than others.
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.960
Uh, some radios in East County are better than others, you know.
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.519
So, like some of the fires that I go to, me and my captains have hand signals at the front door, right?
00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.200
Right, like because uh our radios aren't the best currently right now.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:50.960
That's a whole another scrap.
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:58.960
Um, but uh yes, I would say my mindset on coordinated ventilation has changed because I have the ability to see the big picture now.
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.559
You know, like I'm I don't have horse blinders on anymore in the hallway.
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:07.519
You know, I'm able to see those things coordinate, but benchmarks have always been part of our fire tech plan.
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.319
Um, water on the fire is one of our benchmarks.
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:20.960
Um now, granted, we haven't got to a point to where we're calling out the hallway or the landing strip or, you know, when that coordinated ventilation would actually begin to occur.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:22.880
We don't have an outside vent position.
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:28.799
You know, there's not a lot of things uh that I would like to put in play, you know, if we had more people.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:33.519
That's my biggest challenge is that you know, I run out of people before I run out of jobs on my fire ground.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:38.319
So like it's uh it's a little bit tougher where I come from, you know.
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.400
But yes, um, my idea on coordinated ventilation has changed.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:43.920
Beautiful.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:44.480
Great questions.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:46.880
Was that a two-parter?
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:47.759
There was a two-part.
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:57.279
There was let me let me just unpart was does coordination mean explicit radio confirmation or can they work off shared benchmarks and fire ground cues?
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:58.319
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:03.920
Fire ground cues would be the best in my situation, um, because the radio is kind of stuck where I come from, you know.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:11.759
So, like if you can hear the line opening and you can see the line moving, you know, especially if you're on the exterior with a hook and you're breaking the window of the fire room, like you can hear all that.
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:14.400
You got to be in tune to what the nozzle's telling you.
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:29.440
Um, and being able to time that will definitely benefit all, you know, but um yeah, uh benchmarks are something that we're not uh as clear on all across the board with East County.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:40.720
There are companies that do well, there are shifts that do well, um, but we've operated so long uh with luck, you know, that it's hard for some people to just come around to things, you know.
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.759
But uh yeah, best way you can do is fire ground cues, man.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:46.240
Especially OV, one story.
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:51.039
You know, if I'm an OV on the 12th floor, which I don't fight fires in those buildings, that's different.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.359
You know, but um yeah, fire ground cruise cues, best case.
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:56.480
Beautiful.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.440
Great questions.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:58.960
Next one's coming at Ian.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:02.640
This is about Your book from Jeremy Humphrey, the Hump Man.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:17.440
Ian one Ian, with some states becoming increasingly hesitant to conduct acquired structure burns, does your book provide readers with best practices for evaluating acquired structures and establishing appropriate fuel loads to conduct safe and effective live fire training?
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.720
Yeah, there's uh three chapters on acquired structures.
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:25.440
One is all about selecting and preparing the acquired structure.
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:32.240
Uh, second is about evaluating the risks in any particular acquired structure, and then the third is about how to burn in them.
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:37.200
Then there's just a whole separate chapter on just how to create the fire behavior that you're looking for.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:46.000
Um, yeah, with acquired structures, a nice bridge too is if you can get acquired buildings, just do destructive training.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:23:06.880
You know, spend spend a year, spend two years just doing writ training, flowing water without fire, you know, searching with fake smoke just to get your leadership and folks in the county or folks on you know the mayor's office used to the department using acquired structures because the paperwork is basically the same.
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.920
You still got to have all the the same safety stuff.
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.720
You just got to write a live fire plan if you're gonna burn in them.
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:18.240
So once people get used to using acquired buildings, that'll take some of the stress out.
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:24.799
So you're saying start start with the non-destructive, start with destructive, non-destructive, then destructive, right?
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:34.960
So you're you're cutting holes in the roof, you're flowing water in the hallways, you're you know forcing doors, then go to small fires, like just make the first fire small.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:35.839
It doesn't have to be big.
00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:43.680
If you burn in an acquired structure and the the fire is even remotely realistic, your people are gonna love it.
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:46.079
Boom, get them used to it.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:46.480
I love it.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:50.160
Hey, and if you want, just go ahead, go ahead.
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:53.519
I like what you said about uh creating the fire behavior you want.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:07.759
I think that's the missing piece with a lot of the training that me and you do, specifically me, uh, because uh context is hard to uh build into somebody in a parking lot with no conditions or an empty burn building or you know, the double e prop that we use.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:16.160
You know, I think that's the missing link for uh linking together what I teach people and what you teach people is being able to, and I'm pointing up because you're up on my screen right now.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:19.039
Uh, but um, where's he at?
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:20.079
Sam, is he left?
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:20.559
Is he right?
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:21.279
Where's he?
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:22.720
I'm going to look.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:23.839
He is in the middle.
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:25.599
I'm on the I'm on the what squares.
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:27.279
Where should I be looking?
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:29.200
I know.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:30.720
He's this way.
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:33.519
Uh but yeah, context is super important.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:42.240
Um and being able to teach people how to create certain live fire conditions to warrant certain actions of the nozzle team, super important.
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:44.960
You know, so like I'm I'm super stoked to read that part of your book.
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:46.319
Just wanted to throw that in there.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:47.440
Oh, that's awesome.
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.519
Hey, and this is the book release special.
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:50.319
That's what I was gonna say.
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:55.759
So if you have questions specifically about the books, keep I those questions will make it to the top of the pile.
00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:00.960
I I'll try to get to all questions, don't get me wrong, but I can tell you right now that there are so many questions coming in.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:06.480
But questions about the book specifically will get pulled to the top of the top of the pile, top of the burn pile.
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.039
Um yeah, fun.
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:12.160
Uh I like this one.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:13.279
Foscaris again.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:16.000
Okay, I didn't know it was him, but Mike Foscaris coming at you once more.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:22.720
Says, Kyle, what's something you believe pretty strongly about engine company work 10 or 15 years ago that you don't believe anymore?
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:24.480
And what changed your mind?
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.799
High pressure nozzles.
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.319
Uh and the nozzle reaction changed my mind.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:40.559
So, like when the fire service I inherited, uh, I got the fire service 24 years ago, and we had two inch with inch and a half couplings with 100 PSI uh TFT automatics.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.480
Um, so yeah, that that's uh what I all I knew.
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.559
You know, like I didn't even know a smooth board existed.
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.000
You know, I was in my bubble.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:56.160
So we had what we had until I started branching out of my territorial bubble and finding these super cool nozzles you can see through when you point them at the engine.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.480
You know, I didn't even know those things existed.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:04.000
Um, but yeah, uh high pressure nozzles, I would say high pressure attack packages.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.440
Uh two inch with inch and a half couplings is stupid too, by the way.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:08.720
That's a whole nother scrap.
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:10.480
Um creates a lot of turbulence.
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:14.880
Uh doesn't give you the ability to get two inch flows out of it without a whole lot of reaction in the hose.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.759
Um, but yeah, we learned the hard way out a lot of that stuff.
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:19.920
Um, so yeah, don't do that.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:20.720
Right on.
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.680
No, no, and and it's it's the fire service, a lot of us.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:25.519
I mean, when I started, that's what that's all we had, man.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:32.480
We were just pumping just at ungodly pressures, and we couldn't figure out why we needed two people on this inch and three-quarter, you know.
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:39.759
But uh as a as an exaggeration, but it we were it was basically like it was a stick of concrete we were trying to move with.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:53.359
Yeah, and you know, and that influenced a lot of the fire tag behaviors that we had in that mindset because I was strictly hit and move because the uh attack package forced me to be that way, you know, um, explained in hierarchy part one.
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:53.839
Uh-huh.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:01.440
Uh, but you know, like that's where a lot of people are, is they're forced to only do this because their equipment will only allow them to do this.
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:01.759
Right.
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.400
I can't means I won't on the fire ground, you know.
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:06.640
So, like, if they can't, they won't, you know.
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:15.039
So uh admin has a big responsibility with that as well on building offensive weapons, you know, like they have to be able to operate the way you want them to operate.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:16.079
Boom.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:18.000
Keep the questions coming.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:27.359
Jay Jorgen, and and and if both of you, it's I I try to juggle between the two guests, but if you guys have anything to say on this on the question, no matter who I ask, feel free.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.960
Just get my get my attention.
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.160
I promise you, you will not bother me.
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:31.519
You will not bother the audience.
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:38.960
Jay Jorgen, 4312, wants to know Ian, how do you replicate realistic water mapping inside shipping container structures?
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:40.960
Do you modify them in any way?
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:51.759
You know, that is a tough one because yeah, unless you're willing to do a lot of welding and a lot of work, you're you're gonna have those ripples in the side and then the and then ceilings.
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:57.279
And you just kind of you just I've just dealt with it, right?
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.319
When we go someplace and we teach a class, we're not asking them to modify stuff like that.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:06.319
Uh, you just have to have the nozzleman just be a little more deliberate.
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:19.279
They go a little slower, they map a little more, um, which a lot of times you have to do in fixed facilities anyway, especially this uh the metal ones, because they retain so much heat.
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:31.440
If you don't slow the nozzleman down, have them coat those walls and the ceiling a little more than they normally would, it'll still just be ripping hot in the hallway going towards the fire room and in the fire room itself.
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:42.960
So when you slow them down, when you make sure that they're more deliberate, um, it doesn't really matter that the uh walls and the ceiling aren't guiding the water the way it normally would.
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:48.720
Uh it's and then the other the other big thing in um shipping containers is the noise, right?
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.759
You don't get the auditory feedback as clearly because the walls are so loud.
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:55.920
Uh, that's just a limitation of the prop.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:01.440
And unless you're gonna invest a lot of time and money, uh, you just got to get around that.
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:09.519
But when you slow people down, when they water map more deliberately, you're building habits that are more that are safer in the real world.
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:10.480
That's the other thing.
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:15.279
Whenever you're doing live fire training, there's always limitations of the prop of the building.
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:22.079
When you work around those limitations, you just have to make sure that you're programming in habits that are safer in the real world.
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:26.720
Like a lot of live fire training and fixed facilities, it gets so stinking hot.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:37.680
The way we get around that is you have the students run to the fire room as fast as they can, only flow just a little bit of water right on the seat so you don't make steam, and then you leave again, right?
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:43.359
Because if I don't flow enough water on the approach hallway, then I steam the crap out of myself as a student.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.519
I steam the crap out of the instructors.
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:52.319
But if you think about what you're programming the person to do in real life, they get into a zero visibility hallway, it's screaming hot.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:53.359
What are they gonna try and do?
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:58.880
They're gonna try and not flow water and run forward as fast as they can, the exact opposite of what they should be doing.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:05.279
So anytime, anytime you deal with limitations of the prop, you're gonna have to change the student behavior sometimes.
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:09.599
Just make sure you're changing it so that it's safer in the real world.
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:10.400
Boom.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.400
No, that's that's solid.
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:15.839
Uh Austin Smith coming at Kyle.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:20.240
Is there anything in your book relating to low manpower engine ops?
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:23.440
Chapters one through 29.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.759
Everything, yeah.
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:26.480
Everything.
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:33.359
Uh I I there's no way that I could have wrote anything in the book that did not reflect low manpower, uh, because that's where I come from.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:34.079
That's what I know.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:35.759
You know, that's what I've known for 24 years.
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:36.960
Three-man engine company.
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.000
When early in my career, we're a one and two-man engine company.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:46.480
You know, like uh I would be remiss to try to write anything other than low manpower situations.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:52.319
So, yes, everything in the book is all from the point of view of uh low manpower.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:54.720
But can I speak to something on that, Kyle?
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:58.720
Like that's true, and I love the fact that you said that at the very beginning.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:00.720
Like, hey, this is this is where I'm coming from.
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:04.799
Don't think I'm coming from FDNY or some other place with tons of staffing.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:10.720
But a lot of what you talk about is decision making and especially decision making on the nozzle.
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:23.039
And let's be clear decision making on the nozzle doesn't matter if you're coming from FDNY or some podunk place in the Middle Eastern Washington with a bunch, you know, with six volunteers showing up at different times.
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:28.000
If once you go inside and you're on the nozzle, the decisions are the same.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:32.960
So don't get don't get wrapped around the fact, like, hey, my staffing's not the same as Kyle's.
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:34.720
Kyle's talking about making decisions.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:43.359
If you're in that spot, doesn't matter if you're a two-man engine company or a six-person search team on a rescue, you're still making the same decisions.
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:52.160
Yeah, the biggest benefit that uh more manpower on an engine will allow you to do is have a supervising officer with you.
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.319
And I've never been able to do that, you know.
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:56.000
So, like that was the whole point of the book.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.160
You know, teaching guys how to think on the nozzle because their supervisor is at the pinch point.
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.920
You know, like that's that's the the whole mindset, you know, the cognitive autonomy on the nozzle, the article.
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.279
You know, it's all what it's about.
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:19.200
It's allowing people to make decisions on the nozzle in the absence of their company officer, you know, because uh you wish you had six-man engine company.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:19.920
Go ahead and go from there.
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:20.480
Okay.
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:22.799
I wish I had six-man engine company.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:24.160
Uh we're back.
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:33.279
Uh I wish we had a six-man engine company where I come from, uh, because I could have been a supervising officer and I could have searched a lot of places a little earlier than I was allowed to.
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:39.920
But that's like the mindset of a lot of the book as well, is why we use water for global improvement.
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:47.519
You know, because on low manpower engines, uh, they're not able to search and perform fire check at the same time for a lot of places.
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:58.079
Um, so being having rescue is the objective is the nozzle, man allows you to use the nozzle in a way to where I can get global improvement versus just local improvement.
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:01.039
We're back.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.319
Hopefully that answers your question.
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:07.359
No, I you absolutely I'm sad that it got interrupted in the middle because it was a really good flow you had going.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:09.839
And uh no, absolutely love it.
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:11.359
Sam did it on purpose.
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:13.119
You like hit the breaker.
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:26.720
Matthew, KFD coming at Ian says, in a large department where live fire training is so far in between, what can we do as an engine company to fill that void?
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:29.119
So far in between.
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:33.279
Oh, you mean you just don't get it very often?
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:35.599
Yeah, very little live fire training.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.240
Oh man, that's uh that's a tough one.
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:45.839
Uh one of the best things, it is hard to do live fire training on your own without department support.
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.400
You can always go to classes where it's offered.
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:59.119
But one of the most important things that you're doing when you do good live fire training is you're developing cues and context for actions that you're gonna take on the fire ground.
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:01.680
When I see this, I'm gonna do this.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.519
Um, just kind of like what Kyle's talking about in his book.
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:12.480
Uh, what you can do as an engine company is, and it sounds really basic, but you got to do some YouTube firefighting, right?
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:21.599
There is so much video, Helmicamp video, recording tick video, first arrival that's out there, and you you need to be watching that.
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:27.679
You need to be watching tape and not just like, hey, that was cool, or look at that guy, he tripped and fell over.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:33.280
You need to analyze the fire conditions that you're seeing and ask yourself, what would I do and why?
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:36.800
If I open my line here, what would happen in the rest of the house?
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:40.559
If if the truck pops out window for VES, what's gonna happen?
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:47.280
And so that's you can start building those cues and context by watching that stuff.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:58.400
No, phenomenal way, and the best part is with modern technology, every you know, there's so much, like you said, so much video footage out there, and it's only getting better as far as the quality of the video.
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:04.079
It used to be like a couple grainy ones, you know, and we all seen the same ones over and over, but man, there's so much now.
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:07.199
Boom.
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:09.440
Wes Carpenter, let me see.
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:10.079
I like this.
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:14.159
Uh yeah, I'm there's so many questions.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:15.840
I'm I'm scrolling through them here.
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:17.519
I I want this question to both of you.
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.079
It's from Austin Smith, and Kyle, I'll kick it to you first.
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:26.320
It says, What are your identifying factors that dictate whether you do a transitional attack versus offensive?
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.639
Oh, I hate the T-word.
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:31.599
T-word drives people's blood pressure up, man.
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:38.400
Um, because the old heads used to just call it getting in, but uh we had to put a name on it now.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:53.920
Uh uh, I would say for me personally, uh the biggest indicators of uh exterior water first, like plan A exterior water would be hoarding conditions, forcible entry concerns, and wind-driven fires.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:56.000
Like those are the big three for me.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:58.960
Like if any of those things are happening, put water on the fire.
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:01.039
If I can't get in the building, put water on the fire.
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:05.280
If uh wind-driven condition, that water's got to come from the intake, so I can even make the hallway.
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:07.599
At some point, water needs to come through the intake.
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:11.840
Um, and if I'm going down the exhaust, then I'm not gonna be very helpful with that.
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:17.440
And then uh wind-driven fires, uh, hoarding conditions and force pointer concerns.
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:19.440
Now, granted, we used a lot of blitz attacks.
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:34.719
Uh, going back to the manpower question that we had earlier, uh, I had to be a force multiplier on the fire ground uh when I've got because like my response times were about six to eight minutes in the last 10 years or so, but they used to be 10 to 12 to 15 minutes, depending on where we were going.
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:41.199
And we'd have a large amount of fire with a small amount of water in relation to the rest of the country.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:46.559
You know, so we used a high volume of water for a short amount of time as a force multiplier.
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:49.199
You know, I'd make large fires and sipient fires.
00:36:49.360 --> 00:37:00.880
Um, and a lot of that has to do with knowing your equipment, how much water I can flow up front on tank water, uh, how long I can do that before I get in the danger zone, a close quarter combat, and where to put water.
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:07.360
You know, like that's the biggest mistake people make when they flow high volumes of water from the exterior, is they don't know what winning looks like.
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:08.960
They don't know what losing looks like.
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:11.119
They don't know where to put water and when and why.
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:18.960
You know, so they'll end up blowing their wad on the two and a half or the deck gun and not even uh making any headway on the interior of the structure.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.400
Um, but yeah, that would be uh my biggest ones.
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:23.199
Boom.
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:29.119
Ian, I don't know what he left there because he got to go first, but you get to you get to fill fill in what you fit got.
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:39.199
Well, basically, I I keep it really simple, which is it's delay and access to the fire area, right?
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:43.760
So you got hoarding conditions, so you can't make it down the hallway, but we got a venting window.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.679
Okay, I'm gonna do an exterior line.
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:56.400
If I got a fire that's venting out of floor three in an apartment building and I don't even know where the stairwell is, and it's probably gonna be a 400-foot stretch, and I'm gonna have to chalk open six doors on the way there.
00:37:56.559 --> 00:38:03.280
Well, yeah, I'm gonna have an exterior line, keep it from getting up into floor four and knock it back while the guys are stretching inside.
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:05.679
Got a forcible entry challenge, sure.
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.079
We'll we'll throw a line on the outside.
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.599
Um, you know, anything that delays my entry.
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:18.960
Now, if I got a giant volume of fire in the front, but I'm gonna knock it down and go in through that same spot.
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:21.840
I'm I'm not even gonna call that a transitional attack.
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:23.920
That's that's just fire attack.
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:24.880
Boom.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:26.880
I love it.
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:27.760
Getting in.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:29.840
Just call it just getting in.
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:31.519
That's right, just getting in.
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:33.679
Uh thanks for the question, Austin.
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.000
I like it, and I like the answers even better.
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:40.000
Uh where would you Ecker calls it uh putting water where I'm gonna be next?
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:40.880
I like that too.
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:41.599
That is good.
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.000
I'm just putting water where I'm gonna be next.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:46.000
Fully involved Z.
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:55.360
I'm not sure who fully involved Z is, but Chief Kyle, what is the biggest thing probationary Kyle would take away from the book?
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.760
My book or Ian's book?
00:38:58.079 --> 00:38:58.719
I would say your book.
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.840
I didn't I'll I'll I'll actually throw that same question at Ian afterwards.
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:05.519
I didn't I didn't I wasn't going to at first, but then I was like, hey, it's a great one for both.
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:06.480
Go ahead.
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:10.800
Uh the first thing he will learn is it's okay to open the nozzle.
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:14.400
Uh because I was not told that when I was a young buck.
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:17.199
It was not okay to open the nozzle until somebody told me to.
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:18.880
Uh, but it's okay to open the nozzle.
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.719
If you're gonna use the nozzle, um put it in the right spot.
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.920
Uh, there's a lot of discussion about why we put water, where, and when.
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:31.440
Uh, and then lastly, how to think uh and operate as an independent operator on the nozzle.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.000
That's what probationary firefighter Kyle would learn.
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:38.239
And any probationary firefighter, no matter who their name is, that's exactly what they're gonna learn.
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:45.679
And my personal opinion is that this book needs to be in every fire academy, you know, and uh also Ian's book should be in every fire academy.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:48.559
You know, like uh this is the number one problem that we have.
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:51.519
And I'm so stoked that we were able to do this together.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:56.000
And this release was not planned, released together like this, but it's so important.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:57.679
These things go together so well.
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:07.119
Like the academy has forced people to make poor decisions on the fire ground based on the fires that they fight in the academy, you know, like, and then it ties right back into Ian's book, right?
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:11.760
Like, how do we produce active fire conditions that force people to make good decisions?
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:18.159
You know, instead of a pallet in the corner and getting them in the room and not allowing to put water on the fire because they got to muck it out and reset it.
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:20.880
Like I couldn't have picked this any better.
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:25.679
Like, there is no other book that could have been written and released tomorrow that this scrap would have worked better with.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:28.880
I I I I feel so it feels so good.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:29.679
Feels so good.
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.480
Ian, what what would what would probationary Ian take away from learning to burn?
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:40.079
Well, I mean, the most of the book is designed for instructors and trainers, right?
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:56.559
So let's but there is a whole section on stress in live fire training and how to manage your your proby stress and the effects of not not like on the job stress and not enough sleep, or I saw some terrible call.
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:01.039
It's like this acute stress, like tones drop, and now I'm in a fire.
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:07.360
Like things happen psychologically, physically, and they're just gonna happen to you because you're a human.
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:16.960
And a lot of people don't know those things are gonna happen to them, and so it's distracting, it it really can hurt their performance a lot if they don't know what the heck's happening to them.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:32.239
And so just learning what those acute stress reactions are, that they're totally normal, and then just some super simple breathing exercises, how you can try and minimize and manage them would be uh that'd be useful for any pro e.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:38.639
And I'm gonna switch it up too, because your book is aimed at a different audience than the pro, although it applies, like you said, and I appreciate the answer there.
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:42.400
But I'm gonna put it as your brand new promoted uh training officer.
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.199
You you just got put in charge of the training for your department, let's say.
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:47.599
So, what's the biggest takeaway they're gonna get from your book there?
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:50.159
So I'll change it up, but kind of the same.
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:56.800
Uh, the mindset that you need to have towards training and live fire training in in particular.
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:08.719
Um, that mindset's where the book starts, and it's the most important thing because if you have the right mindset, you you can develop the rest of the stuff that's in the book without getting yourself into trouble.
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:18.000
Like there's people out there, people who probably should have written this book before I did, who've been doing high-level live fire training for long, long, long, long time.
00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:22.079
They're doing all the same, many of the same things I talk about in the book.
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:31.679
They just didn't write it down and they figured it all out just like I figured it out without killing anybody, because they have the right mindset because they approached problems the right way.
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:34.400
They thought to themselves, okay, we want to try this new thing.
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:41.679
How are we gonna mitigate the risk of this this extra thing that we're gonna throw in in the mix, as opposed to what a lot of guys do?
00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:48.480
You watch you read the line of duty deaths, and you can just tell that somebody was like, Yeah, you want to throw another uh couple of couches in here?
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:50.960
Yeah, sounds like a great let's get it hot.
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:53.119
Let's get it hot on the last minute.
00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:54.480
We won't tell anybody either.
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:55.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:58.159
We're not gonna change the water, no more lines.
00:42:58.239 --> 00:42:59.360
Let's just do it.
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:01.280
Oh no, I love it.
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:02.000
Uh great question.
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:02.639
That was awesome.
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:03.519
I believe it was awesome.
00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:04.159
I'm trying to remember.
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:05.440
There's good lord.
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:07.679
Uh, there's so many questions I haven't even seen, guys.
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:08.639
There are a ton of questions.
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:09.039
Okay.
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:11.440
Uh, I'm just gonna go random here almost.
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.199
I'll go to the top.
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.280
I think uh uh Sam, I'll I'll trust Sam.
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:23.280
Uh Wes Carpenter is coming at Kyle and says, Which lesson in the book cost you the most to learn and how does that affect you today?
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:26.880
Oh man, what a great question.
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:29.840
Uh, what lesson in the book?
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:35.599
Um how to know what winning looks like.
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:39.039
Because I didn't know for a long time uh what winning looked like.
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:40.079
I just got lucky a lot.
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:44.639
You know, like the fires were bad, I got pushed out, and you know, it wasn't anything I did.
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:46.320
It was my mentality at the time.
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.760
Like I put water everywhere I was taught to, and it didn't work out.
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:59.760
So like I was just taught that was teaching me that fires sometimes don't go well, instead of teaching me that I should be paying more attention to the building and finding out what the fire is actually telling.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:00.320
Me.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.400
Is it reacting to what I'm doing?
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:03.360
If not, why?
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:04.159
Is it me?
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:05.920
Because nine times out of ten, it's me.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:06.480
You know what I mean?
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:12.320
Short of a wind-driven condition or a flammable liquid added to the situation, it's me on the nozzle that's causing the problem.
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.599
You know, like either I didn't bring enough or I'm not putting in the right spot.
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.239
You know, like that's that was the biggest, hardest lesson uh that I had to learn.
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:24.000
And I watched a lot of sunrises over smoke plumes to learn that lesson, you know.
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:31.920
So um, yeah, that's the biggest lesson is what winning and losing looks like, and what winning and losing feels like on the interior.
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:40.000
Ian, biggest lesson you've learned about live fire training and how does that affect you today?
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.119
Oh yeah, there's there's so many.
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:48.159
The the biggest one, the most important one.
00:44:48.320 --> 00:45:01.679
Um the one that jumps out of my mind, I'm not sure if it's the most important, but what when you're in acquired structures, uh big rooms equal big problems.
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.360
Right.
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:13.840
Um, you know, when you're in a fixed facility, when you got a giant room, it's super safe because the fire stays over there, grows to its maximum potential.
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:20.800
You can roll it over the students' heads, they can see everything, and then fuel starts to burn down, it's all good.
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:29.280
Uh, you try the same thing in a uh in acquired structure, and you will uh you will flash the room on your students or almost.
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:48.239
And you know, a big room holds a lot of energy, and your nozzle firefighter who is used to fighting fixed facility fires is gonna do like one sweep over the ceiling and then try and advance and then have fire behind them, unless you you know properly educate them.
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:50.079
Right, right mindset.
00:45:50.320 --> 00:46:09.519
I mean, but I guess if you wanted to bring it all back, that the most important thing is the the live fire instructor and where they are, like uh the a qualified, like a well-trained live fire instructor can take a civilian through intense, intense fire conditions, and it's gonna be fine.
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:17.119
And a bad live fire instructor can injure your most experienced guy in the nozzle.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:29.840
Great, and I tell I I can say that about the civilian because we took a uh city councilman in uh and rolled fire over his head, like five feet past his head, and it was and it was fine, right?
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:33.519
He didn't he didn't think it was fine, he even asked, he's like, Is this okay?
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:34.480
Uh are we okay?
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:36.000
I don't feel okay, right?
00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:38.320
Hey, there's a way to get some.
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:42.079
I'm gonna send you a video, Ian, when I find it.
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:45.679
Uh Captain Reed, uh God rest his soul.
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:47.519
Uh, we just lost him not too long ago.
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:51.199
Uh, he was doing a he would used to do live fire all the time for Houston.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.000
That's what he did uh at the academy.
00:46:54.159 --> 00:47:02.239
And the fire chief in the 90s, one of them, wanted to do like the Christmas tree burn for the news, like an actual Christmas tree that they didn't water and burn it.
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:12.000
So they set up the whole burn room with the Christmas tree and like the cameras in the burn room and the the fire chief's in just like his coat and his helmet.
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:16.079
And uh they're like, Reed shows up and it's all set up already.
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:20.239
And he's like, Yeah, we're gonna we usually do all this outside, but we're gonna do this in the room now.
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.800
And Reed's like, You're gonna burn to death in here.
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:25.039
And he was like, No, man, uh, we're good.
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:26.079
We do this outside all the time.
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:29.440
He's like, But you're in a room now, like this is different.
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:33.840
And like it's filmed, so they light the Christmas tree.
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:37.920
And this is like after 15 minutes of Reed telling these guys, like, you're gonna burn to death in this room.
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:45.519
Like, you should definitely have a rope that leads you to that door out there, because in 15 seconds after they light this Christmas tree, you're gonna be looking for that door over there.
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:48.239
And uh, they didn't listen to it, and they're like, nah, man, we're good.
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:51.199
They like the Christmas tree, dude, and it's on live TV.
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:59.920
They light the Christmas tree, and like 10 seconds after they light the Christmas tree, black to the floor, camera knocks over, everybody's running for the door.
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:01.440
Like, man, great.
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:03.360
I I'll find the footage, I'll send it to you.
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:04.559
It is hilarious.
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:06.880
But those dudes could have burned to death in that room, yeah.
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.719
And yeah, yeah, re-told them.
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:10.639
Yeah, funny stuff.
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:12.400
You're in a room now.
00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:14.159
This is completely fire fighting.
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:15.280
It's different.
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:23.599
Uh uh, I love this one, both of you, and I want to put it on both of you, although this one's directed at Chief Romagus.
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:28.800
Any influence from the book of Andy with this the article style chapters, which when you get the book, uh you'll see why.
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:30.320
Yeah, that's the response.
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:33.519
But he did ask, did any book influence the Ramagus papers?
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:34.880
That's the part I want to throw at both of you.
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:36.079
Did any book influence you?
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:36.719
But go ahead.
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:37.199
Oh, yeah.
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:38.880
How many do you think are in the references?
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:39.599
Do we know?
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:40.320
Oh, good lord.
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:45.199
I know I alphabetized them and that was a labor of Is it like 12 pages?
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.599
Something of references references.
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:48.079
Yeah.
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:53.840
In the very back of the book where it starts with references and it lists every book on my bookshelf.
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:57.039
Uh, yeah, though that influenced the book.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:48:58.159
Like everything.
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:02.880
Uh, anybody that tell you they made some shit up that they came in this job after 1960, they are a liar.
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:04.400
Manuel Freed wrote that book.
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:09.199
Like uh Vincent Dunn, Harold Rickman, you know, Warren Kimball, William E.
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:15.679
Clark, you know, James Braidwood, you know, they all influenced Annie Fredericks, Tom Brennan, you know, they all influenced it.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:18.960
So yeah, and that was important to me when we were making this book.
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:21.199
A lot of people don't know that you had a lot to do with this book.
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:22.400
So cheers to you, Corley.
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:22.960
Oh, thank you.
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:24.559
But no, it never happened.
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:26.320
Yeah, we're going, yeah.
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:26.960
Thank you, thank you.
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:27.360
Go ahead.
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:34.880
But yes, that was one of the things that we discussed about putting in the book was the references because everything is all intertwined, you know.
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:36.960
But yes, absolutely.
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:45.280
Uh, one of the best parts of the book, I think, is the bibliography, which is a uh good uh bonus for any article you're gonna read as well.
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:50.400
So one of the best golden parts is the bibliography that at the bottom of the articles that you're gonna read.
00:49:50.800 --> 00:50:02.159
So like super nerds know already, but always go to the bibliography when you get done with something you really liked because that will lead you down to the next path, and then that one will lead you to another one, and then that's how you become an engine nerd right there.
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.000
Right there, the guide to coming in.
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:05.760
Ian, different style of book.
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:07.760
So, what what was the influences?
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:12.960
Oh man, I struggled for a long time to try and find a format that was gonna work for me.
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:16.800
Um, but I'd say one book influenced me the most.
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:19.760
It's called uh Training at the Speed of Life.
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:32.800
Um, and it is a manual about how to do like uh high-risk training for police, uh, written by a guy who was doing lots of what they call live, you know, live fire training with cops, right?
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:43.840
They go in, there's a they create a fake hostage situation, or you know, there's an aggressive suspect on the other side of the room who's got a gun, but it's not drawn, like all of all that stuff.
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:47.039
And he was dealing with things that were even more dangerous, right?
00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:58.880
Because guys are showing up, you know, on shift, and they've then they've got to use, they're gonna use their weapon, but they gotta, you know, take all the take take all the bullets out, and we're gonna put in sim munitions.
00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:05.039
And he, you know, he's like half, you know, maybe one time in ten, some guy doesn't actually take the bullets out.
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:09.760
And so you how do you ensure that you know guys aren't actually shooting each other?
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:16.800
And how do you, you know, how do you have somebody assault somebody else and then make it a an actual learning experience?
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:18.559
Is it was really good.
00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:22.719
There's a bunch of other books, again, long, long bibliography.
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:31.760
Interestingly enough, there's there's not a whole lot of fire service stuff that's quoted in there because there's just not a lot of fire service stuff on this.
00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:34.320
I mean, there's a lot of stuff on this.
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:51.360
Yeah, there's two other books out there about how to do live fire training that I could find in the fire service literature, and most most it they both just explain NFPA 1400 right on, right on a lot of cartoons or fires.
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:58.880
Yeah, well, not even a lot of fires, mostly just like people standing around at command boards with uh vests on.
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:02.079
Very helpful, very helpful.
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:02.960
Yeah.
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:09.280
Uh Wes Carpenter's asking, Kyle and Ian, will publishing the books change your relationship with the fire service?
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:10.000
Ian.
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:12.480
I mean, I I don't know.
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:15.039
I I guess uh we'll see.
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:17.039
Um you are an author now.
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:20.639
You both authors now, and that's that's a that's a pretty elite club, honestly.
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:24.239
I mean, it might mean we teach a little bit more, but I I don't know.
00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:26.239
I don't I hope it doesn't.
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:26.800
Right?
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:29.119
My my main focus is still my department.
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:31.280
That's where I'm spending most most of my time.
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:36.719
Like, I don't want to be, you know, an absent an absent officer in my department.
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:41.119
So I mean, kind of maxed out at how much time I do teaching.
00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:45.360
My but basically I want to throw this out there and hopefully it helps people.
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:46.079
Right on.
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:50.320
And you know, if I go teach a few more classes, great, but not really.
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:52.800
Kyle?
00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:56.800
Uh I don't even remember the question.
00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:58.320
But my hope for the book.
00:52:58.880 --> 00:52:59.119
Go ahead.
00:52:59.199 --> 00:52:59.360
Go ahead.
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:00.480
Your hope for the book then.
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:14.559
My hope for the book is that it helps people understand why we do the skill set that I teach, because there's a lot of people that teach the skill set that I happen to teach as well, and very few of them are very good at explaining why.
00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:18.480
There's a bunch of dudes out there that explain how, and they're really good at how.
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:23.360
But I think how is just enough to make somebody dangerous.
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:24.400
You know what I mean?
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:27.119
Like they don't they gotta know when, where, and why.
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:40.239
And hopefully, my biggest goal from the book for the fire service in general, I hope that that it spawns like another 50 other people that do what I do, you know, like that that teach what I teach.
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:41.840
Like that's the goal, you know.
00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:47.920
And the conclusion I talk about instructors needing to make themselves unnecessary, like we should be working ourselves out of a job.
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:48.559
100%.
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:50.000
I completely agree.
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:59.280
One of my earliest mentors in when I became an instructor said, just remember you you're always trying to make yourself irrelevant, and that's that's my hope, right?
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:12.159
If I never if the book went out and people could just do and create the stuff they see on my YouTube channel, and I never had to do this again, like I would miss doing it, but that would be like my my dream.
00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:13.599
For sure.
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:17.760
Um, I just wish we could all start speaking the same language.
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:20.559
I really hate that social media.
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:22.639
Oh man, here's another scrap right here, dog.
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:24.000
We're going down a rabbit hole.
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:29.760
Like, social media has caused a lot of people to determine that they're in this camp or another camp.
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:36.320
And uh you're either in this camp and you say these things because this guy in this camp that leads this camp is like cults, man.
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:40.320
Like, oh yeah, this camp's got a cult leader over here, and this camp's got a cult leader over there.
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:45.119
And the problem is is these two cult leaders are in the same business and they don't speak the same language.
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:50.480
Like, I wish that we could all just speak the truth because the truth sounds the same no matter who you hear it from.
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:53.039
You know, like we should just all be speaking the truth.
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:54.559
We should all be pro-life.
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:55.440
You know what I mean?
00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:01.679
Like, if we can all just get to a point to where we're all pro-life and we're all speaking the same language, then that would be awesome.
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:16.719
Um, but uh I hope that the book itself spawns people to teach people more about how to think with this particular skill set, with nozzle operations, with engine company operations, just teach them how to think.
00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:25.840
And then I hope it spawns another 50 instructors that will regurgitate everything that they hear in the book because it happens to be the truth.
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.360
That's the good thing about the book, you know.
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:31.119
So, like, I want them to regurgitate it because it just happens to be the truth, you know.
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:33.119
So, like, I I that's my hope.
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:33.920
Love it.
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:34.800
I love it, man.
00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:38.639
Okay, we're getting into some uh uh I like some of these.
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:39.599
I'm trying to find one here.
00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:40.960
Sam's pulling up some more.
00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:42.480
Uh, I there's a ton of questions.
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:43.679
Hope you guys are okay.
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.039
Uh yeah, keep them rolling.
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:48.480
Okay, I'm getting there.
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:51.039
I just saw one I wanted to read, and now I can't find it because there's too many.
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:52.320
Uh, all right, I'll go in.
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:52.960
I'm going here.
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:55.599
This is an easy toss, soft toss from Rob F and Fisher.
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:56.960
And I like I love these questions.
00:55:57.039 --> 00:56:03.440
So uh, but Rob Evan Fisher wants to know uh from both of you who are your mentors, and I'll throw it to Ian first.
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:07.039
Man, there's a there's a long list.
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:10.800
Uh I mean it's not a fair question, it's not a fair question, but that's okay.
00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:12.719
But let's I mean it's funny.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:15.840
I I'm gonna refer back to the five questions for firefighters.
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:17.519
You know, remember Mount Rushmore?
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:18.239
Oh, yeah.
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:19.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:22.880
So we had to we had to put a clock on Mount Rushmore just because of this reason.
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:24.079
Because of this reason.
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:24.880
But go ahead.
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:35.840
Yeah, well my mom was one of them, and in the fire service, she uh she hasn't been a main mentor, but uh yeah, I mean it's I mean Aaron Fields, who I listed already.
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:45.760
Uh first first person to show me how to flow and move, gave me lots of opportunities to acquire structure stuff at a level that I've never done before, really changed my frame of reference on all that.
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:57.920
Uh, then uh a couple of chiefs in my department, Chief Kennedy and Chief Mayor, uh, who really pushed me in the live fire realm to formalize what I did.
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:02.639
Like my whole risk management style started from Chief Mayor way back in the day.
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:09.679
And then Chief Kennedy made me basically write half the book for the department before I even thought about writing the book because I was in training division.
00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:12.320
She's like, hey, this all has to be formal.
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:17.519
Oh, that means I gotta write all this down in like like training documents for our people.
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:18.880
Oh, okay.
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:21.199
Um, and then she was like, Yeah, this sucks.
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:22.480
You gotta make it better.
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:32.320
And so you know, in a in a polite, you know, mentored pilot way, but uh, I wouldn't be half as good if I if she hadn't done that.
00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:37.199
Um, so and I know it's not a fair question because it's so hard to answer.
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:40.159
It's so hard to be, you know, you're gonna leave somebody out no matter what you do.
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:46.559
Yeah, so yeah, so many people in different, different, but those those probably some of the some of my three biggest influences.
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:50.000
Another one she feels like yeah, so yeah, just amazing.
00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:51.039
Uh I'll stop right there.
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:53.280
There's a ton of other people that know who they are.
00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:55.119
I I thank them regularly.
00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:56.480
Kyle, same question.
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:58.880
Mentors, and I know this is this you could talk for an hour.
00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:02.079
In fact, you could write 12 pages of of references for your book.
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:02.960
So, but go ahead.
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:04.960
What a horrible question, Rob.
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.119
Horrible question on a time frame.
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:13.199
Uh, I will say that my first local mentor ever was my big homie Howard Reinwald.
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:18.159
He was the first person that I ever met that thought differently about the fire ground.
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:24.239
Like he could see the fire ground differently than anybody else I ever met in my whole life, you know.
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:28.800
Um, so big ups to Howard Reinwald, first mentor ever.
00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:33.039
Um people I don't know, let's put them in categories, dude.
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:35.599
People I've never met because they died before I got the fire service.
00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:37.599
Andy Fredericks, obviously, obviously.
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:42.320
Um James Braidwood, you know, Warren Kimball.
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:43.360
William E.
00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:44.480
Clark was a big one.
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:47.440
You know, the blue book was a big influence on my career.
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:51.679
Um principles and practices should be in everybody's library.
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:58.079
Um Vincent Dunn, I had a chance to meet and hang out with Vincent Dunn a lot.
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:03.599
Uh about oh man, it's been almost 10 years now that I used to do webinars with Vincent Dunn.
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:08.960
And the cool thing about hanging out with Chief Dunn is uh I had to teach him how to use Zoom every time we talked.
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:11.599
So like I had like an hour just me and Dunn.
00:59:11.679 --> 00:59:13.360
You know, that was that was pretty cool.
00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:24.559
Um Ike, I would say is one of the biggest living mentors that have influenced my career and the way I think about the fire ground.
00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:32.960
Like that dude is in a walking encyclopedia of fire ground history on line of duty deaths, NIOS reports.
00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:38.000
Um one of my favorite humans ever is uh Chief Kurt Isaacson.
00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:42.480
And then uh I gotta have one more because we gotta end on a good one as well.
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:44.639
Uh because we can't just end on that.
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.760
Uh uh, I'm drawing straws here.
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:49.519
Uh Rob Fisher.
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:52.159
Rob Fisher, one of my biggest homies ever.
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:56.159
Rob Fisher is uh one of my favorite humans to ever walk the earth.
00:59:56.320 --> 00:59:58.719
He's a genuinely great person.
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:02.320
Um, he really uh listens to you when you talk to him.
01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:04.000
Uh, there's not a lot of people that do that.
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:06.320
A lot of people just uh wait for their turn to talk.
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:08.079
Rob uh listens.
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:10.800
And uh he's one of my favorite humans ever.
01:00:11.360 --> 01:00:12.000
I love it.
01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:12.800
I absolutely love it.
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:13.519
And I agree.
01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:15.360
I the the second L, listen.
01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:19.119
I had I had a call even said, Hey, will you do the the bonus content for the audible book?
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:21.119
And he's like, Me, I'm a terrible communicator.
01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:22.880
I'm like, Yeah, whatever, buddy.
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:26.079
But no, he's awesome.
01:00:26.239 --> 01:00:29.599
The uh okay, I got there's another question here I wanted to get to.
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:31.920
This one is a more technical question.
01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:32.800
Good lord.
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:35.039
Thank you, audience, for the amazing questions, by the way.
01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:36.719
I cannot say that enough.
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:38.800
Uh, latest use.
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:39.199
That's it.
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:40.480
Red Sox 3947.
01:00:40.639 --> 01:00:44.000
Ian, what is the latest on the use of OSB in a live fire package?
01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:46.880
I know there were concerns about glue and plastics, etc., etc.
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:49.119
Where's it sitting at, as far as you know?
01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:52.079
Uh OSB is still still in the picture, right?
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:56.079
OS OSB, according to the NFPA, is uh totally fine.
01:00:56.320 --> 01:01:00.800
And I I talked about this on uh my last scrap, but I'll just summarize it again.
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:07.360
Yeah, there was some push to eliminate OSB and the committee.
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:26.719
I mean, if you look into the FSRI research and you look at the studies, everything that burns in a vent-limited state to produce smoke, it creates nasty off-gas production, uh, nasty products of combustion, right?
01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:29.280
Because it's incomplete combustion.
01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:30.719
It's just what do you want?
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:37.920
Like some stuff produces hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen fluoride, all different nasty, nasty stuff that you don't want on you.
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:50.480
Um somebody just got a bug in their hat about OSB, but it's basically if you look at the little bars that they show on the results, it's it's in the same range.
01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:53.599
Like OSB is as bad as pallets, as bad as hay.
01:01:54.239 --> 01:02:08.480
And if you are gonna ban OSB because it is you know so dangerous from causing cancer, then the only moral choice you can make is to just ban all Class A fuels and go to gas props and fake smoke.
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:17.119
If you want to reduce cancer risk, what you got to do is decon, you know, all the all the other things, right?
01:02:17.199 --> 01:02:32.480
You don't eliminate OSB, you make sure that guys are getting their annual health physicals, deconning after, shower within the hour, changing your gear out, all that stuff that we know, all that stuff that like guys like Frank Lee were hammering on the national conversation.
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:34.159
That's what you got to do.
01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:38.639
But OSB is still it's still good, still good.
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:40.159
Nothing's changed on that front.
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:42.960
No, good, no, no, great.
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:45.679
Uh I man great question.
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:46.639
It was a good question.
01:02:46.719 --> 01:02:47.760
I wanted to get it in there.
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:57.039
Uh, I like this one because it's asking, you're getting to see the FSR research process and the NFPA process from the inside out, uh, not just reading the finished report.
01:02:57.199 --> 01:02:59.440
Has that changed the way you look at fire service research?
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:00.719
I'm throwing it at Ian.
01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:01.440
I don't know.
01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:02.400
Go ahead.
01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:07.280
At the research, um, I guess not much.
01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:16.719
I mean, I've been following them closely for a long time now, so I kind of knew what I was getting into when um when I started.
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:33.679
But I mean, I guess the thing I'm continually impressed by is how like most of the guys in FSRI, I mean, they they've got research scientists who just do just run the experiments and run the data, but most of those guys are firefighters, right?
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:41.199
And in fact, half the research scientists are now signing up to be volunteer firefighters or part-time firefighters.
01:03:41.599 --> 01:03:45.599
These are these are guys who are going in and doing doing work just like you and me.
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:48.639
So I love it.
01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:49.360
I love it.
01:03:49.599 --> 01:04:01.440
Luke Green uh actually just said in the YouTube chat, Kyle, he said, I still think Kyle missed a grand opportunity to add a page that says stolen from the library of with the blank line on it.
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:02.719
Yep, coming soon.
01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:04.159
We already talked about it.
01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:13.280
Yeah, it's already been it's it's gonna be added, so it's it's gonna be in there, and it's gonna be how we know if you got a very early copy or later copy because the later copies will have.
01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:16.000
We shouldn't have released that because now they're not gonna buy it until we change it.
01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:18.000
Well, it may have already been changed.
01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:19.760
Yep, delete that out, Sam.
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:20.559
Back it up.
01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:28.000
Early copies, man, they'll be the you know, when you get poorly printed stamps or whatever, they'll be collector's editions right on.
01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:33.119
That's funny because my wife actually made me a stamp.
01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:36.159
Uh, so I'm buying author copies and I'm gonna send them out.
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:39.039
And the ones that I sell in person are gonna have the stamp in it.
01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:44.639
So it's a stamp of me standing against a wall with a black and mild hanging out of my mouth, and it says, Yeah, man, at the top of it.
01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:48.000
So, like I'm gonna sleep with that one for all the ones I sell in person.
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:49.679
That's awesome.
01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:52.480
Uh all right.
01:04:53.920 --> 01:05:00.000
Uh Ryan Allison says, Ian, most acquired burns seem to take place in rural settings due to the complications from neighbors.
01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:03.119
What are your thoughts on burning in suburban or urban settings?
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:09.599
Well, in my department, we only burn in urban settings because that's all we've got.
01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:14.079
Uh, it does present some more challenges logistically.
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:20.000
And in terms of perception, you got to manage perception a lot more closely.
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:24.320
Um, and you can't burn buildings down anymore, right?
01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:32.880
In this in the city of Seattle, we don't burn, we haven't burned down acquired structures in 10 years because the buildings are just too close, right?
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:36.000
You're gonna you're gonna damage the neighbor's house, it's not worth it.
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:39.920
Um, but it's mostly about perception management.
01:05:40.239 --> 01:05:48.960
And you you have to educate the chiefs and the folks who are doing who are at the top level about what's coming their way because there's gonna be complaints, right?
01:05:49.039 --> 01:05:52.559
You'll have 90 people say, Man, that was the coolest thing I ever took my kids to see.
01:05:52.639 --> 01:05:55.599
And then you'll have four people who say, like, what do you do?
01:05:55.840 --> 01:06:02.159
You got to educate them that's coming, you got to educate your uh Um, like your municipal leaders.
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:06.079
Like we've invited the mayor, we've invited city council members.
01:06:06.320 --> 01:06:12.880
Maybe if there's a city council member who doesn't like the fire department so much, yeah, we're not, we got this quiet structure in their district, but we're not gonna burn it.
01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:14.800
We'll wait till the next one.
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:18.719
Um, and then you invite the we we invite the public out, right?
01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:20.800
I mean, people are gonna stop by, they're gonna walk by.
01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:33.119
You just set up a spot for them, make sure you got stickers for the kids, tell them what's going on because the public wants firefighters who are well prepared, and it you don't have to talk to them for more than two minutes and they get it, right?
01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:38.159
Oh, yeah, we're gonna burn in this house so that you know when your neighbor's house catches on fire, they'll be ready to fight that fire.
01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:39.760
They're like, Yeah, of course.
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:40.559
Why wouldn't you?
01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:41.760
Yeah, why wouldn't you do that?
01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:43.599
Yeah, great idea.
01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:51.679
Yeah, you know, we we can go into the mechanics of how you prep the building and all that stuff so you don't damage exposures, but uh if you want all those details, you can buy the book.
01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:53.360
Yeah, there's a book written on that, I think, right?
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:56.719
Yeah, book release special.
01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:02.880
Uh Jay Jorgen, uh 4312.
01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:03.599
I don't know, Kyle.
01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:06.400
You go, but he says, Kyle, can you give some pros and cons?
01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:12.559
And honestly, Kyle Ian, but uh, as well as your opinion on the different stream patterns, straight combination blade.
01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:18.320
Oh man, me and Ian both have a little experience with that.
01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:25.760
So a lot of people don't may not know this, but the uh burns that we did with the blade, Ian was the mastermind on all those burns.
01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:28.239
And oh really, I was looking at yeah, okay.
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:30.800
He did all the burn plans, he did all the fire sets.
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.119
Oh, did I just release something that wasn't supposed to be out of Ian?
01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:35.039
No, not at all.
01:07:35.199 --> 01:07:36.079
Okay, all right.
01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:39.920
Uh so those burn plans were some of the most detailed burn plans I've ever seen.
01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:44.639
And the 500 square foot burn that we did in Hillsboro, I thought I was gonna die.
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:47.599
Like that one right there, that was the one I was most nervous about.
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:50.559
Not die, maybe get burnt a little bit.
01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:54.320
Yeah, because that was like 500 square feet of fireball.
01:07:54.480 --> 01:08:10.559
Um I think we're at a point now to where that uh I hope that UL starts studying some of this stuff because uh UL's biggest thing is they don't test products, they test tactics, and now that's not the only blade on the market.
01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:14.320
So um they've got uh a couple different blades out there.
01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:18.479
Akron's got one, and then uh obviously the one that Kyle made.
01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:23.520
Uh the name of it is escaping me because I'm about six glasses of EH Taylor in right now.
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:27.680
Um, but um, what is the name of that blade?
01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:29.199
What did Kyle come up with?
01:08:29.520 --> 01:08:30.319
Kyle.
01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:31.039
Kyle.
01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:33.840
Uh the he just got hard on in Everett with uh Bonifield.
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:34.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:36.560
It's escaping me too.
01:08:36.960 --> 01:08:37.439
Escaping me.
01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:39.760
Anyway, uh it's not just one blade anymore.
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:41.439
There's other bladed patterns out there.
01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:44.399
Um, but Delta Brass, he says someone, someone in yeah, that's a big thing.
01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:45.119
Delta Brass.
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:46.239
Yeah, Delta Brass.
01:08:46.399 --> 01:08:47.439
Thank you, YouTube channel.
01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:47.840
Thank you.
01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:48.800
Yeah, there you go.
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:59.520
Uh I hope that uh at some point that we're able to start looking at certain stuff uh that's not products and now tactics, that we can start giving some answers to some of these questions.
01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:03.039
Um, because I love FireTech, man, and just let the cream rise to the top.
01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:04.319
That's the whole hope.
01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:08.319
And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to participate in the burns in the first place.
01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:14.159
You know, I have relationships with guys and manufacturers, um, but I just am in love with fire tech.
01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:16.319
And that was one of the reasons why I said yes.
01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:20.239
I've tried to stay Switzerland on a lot of these topics, you know.
01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:22.960
Uh, but it I I just love FireTac.
01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:24.000
So I'm all in.
01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:28.640
You know, when I was called and asked to be the Nausman on those burns we did in Hillsborough, I was all in, you know.
01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:35.600
Um, but uh still to be determined, my friend, uh, that asked that question, Jorgensen.
01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:36.079
Yeah.
01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:39.199
Um, because we don't have all the answers to the questions yet.
01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:47.600
So um air entrainment gets brought up a lot, and a lot of people I think misunderstand air entrainment.
01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:51.920
Um, because air entrainment without cooling downrange is a bad idea.
01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:55.439
Air entrainment with cooling downrange is a great idea, you know.
01:09:55.600 --> 01:10:00.640
So, like, can we get the mass amount of cooling at the same time we get the mass amount of air?
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:08.960
So, like, if we can get the airflow of the power cone or the narrow angle fog with the cooling of the smooth bore, would that be gold standard?
01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:09.840
Don't know.
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:20.399
You know, like we don't have testing to say that, you know, but uh all the directions say that if I can get the most amount of air with the most amount of cooling, it's the best for unprotected civilians.
01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:22.159
That's your hypothesis that that would work.
01:10:22.239 --> 01:10:24.640
It just needs to be proven with the the sets and reps.
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:30.560
Yes, and whatever nozzle stream type does that the best should be gold standard.
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:31.039
Love it.
01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:32.159
Ian, same thing.
01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:32.800
Oh, go, sorry.
01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:34.640
I didn't mean yeah, Ian?
01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:36.479
What Kyle said.
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:37.920
I got nothing to ask.
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:40.640
The easy all right, all right.
01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:45.840
I like we're gonna swing to this one, and this is there's a ton, uh, okay, hold on.
01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:51.279
Uh I didn't say Kyle's last name because I don't know how to pronounce it well.
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:52.079
I always get it wrong.
01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:54.399
I always say Tahone, and that's not it.
01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:55.039
Thon.
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:56.319
Is it Tahone?
01:10:56.720 --> 01:10:57.039
Thon.
01:10:57.439 --> 01:10:58.239
Tone Tahone.
01:10:58.560 --> 01:10:58.720
Tone.
01:10:59.039 --> 01:10:59.359
Tone.
01:10:59.600 --> 01:10:59.920
Tone.
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:00.560
Tone.
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:00.800
Yeah.
01:11:01.039 --> 01:11:01.279
Tone.
01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:03.760
Just L G and Lasagna.
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:04.880
Yeah, I got it.
01:11:05.359 --> 01:11:07.039
Uh, because I used to say thon.
01:11:07.359 --> 01:11:10.880
But but uh great dude, super smart guy.
01:11:11.119 --> 01:11:11.520
Yep.
01:11:12.079 --> 01:11:14.479
Both question to both from Rob Effisher.
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:15.119
What's in the glass?
01:11:15.199 --> 01:11:16.319
We know Kyle's got the colonel.
01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:17.279
Ian?
01:11:17.359 --> 01:11:17.680
Yep, yeah.
01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:19.039
Taylor small batch.
01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:23.840
Uh it's it's Mitchel Smallbatch.
01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:26.399
It's something, I don't know, just something I got at Costco.
01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:27.199
Okay.
01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:28.239
It's good though.
01:11:28.800 --> 01:11:29.600
It's good.
01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:30.880
All right, we're getting there.
01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:33.680
I like uh man, I keep losing the questions.
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:36.479
Uh both of you, I'm gonna go to Ian first.
01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:44.000
John McCoy wants to know what was the light bulb that finally went off that made you say, I've got to get this information out there.
01:11:44.159 --> 01:11:45.840
I gotta write this book.
01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:55.520
Uh I mean, I guess the main the person who pushed me to really get serious about it uh was Brian Brush.
01:11:55.920 --> 01:12:01.119
Uh after I'd taught the class, uh the training trainer at his place is like, look, you gotta write this book.
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:09.920
I already had three or four chapters kind of pretty well lined out, actually in kind of book format, but I wasn't I wasn't really serious.
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:11.920
I hadn't talked to any publishers.
01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:26.239
It was that person saying, like, look, the class is great, but you need to, if you want this to be professional, if you want this to be something that lasts after you're you decide to put down the torch and stop teaching, you you you gotta write a book.
01:12:26.479 --> 01:12:35.520
And that's you know, once once he convinced me to do that, then it was okay, I'm gonna sign with fire engineering so I don't have to do any of that other back end stuff.
01:12:35.760 --> 01:12:40.800
Um and then it was just like, all right, I got an assignment basically just like a long homework assignment.
01:12:40.880 --> 01:12:45.520
I gotta sit down every day and hammer out this much until I'm done.
01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:47.840
Kyle?
01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:51.039
Uh the light bulb moment.
01:12:51.279 --> 01:12:56.319
Um man, I love teaching people about fire tech.
01:12:56.720 --> 01:12:58.800
Uh I love teaching people how to think.
01:12:59.359 --> 01:13:04.640
And uh it was so exciting to be able to put it on paper that it lasts forever.
01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:08.399
You know, that's the coolest part about it, is it's concrete and it's there forever.
01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:16.159
I wished the whole time that we were putting this book together, Corley, and I probably told you like five million times while we were putting it together.
01:13:16.319 --> 01:13:18.079
I wish somebody else would write this book.
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:18.720
You know what I mean?
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:19.840
Like you said that a lot.
01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:28.239
Yeah, I mean, I wish somebody else would have written it, you know, and like there was not one book that I could turn to that had all that information in it.
01:13:28.399 --> 01:13:29.680
I wish there was a book.
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:34.800
Like, that's the the worst question that not the worst question, it's the best question, actually.
01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:41.520
But it's that it's the one I dread the most, which people ask me if you could pick one book to give a proby.
01:13:41.680 --> 01:13:44.399
There is not one book, like that that book isn't written.
01:13:44.560 --> 01:14:02.640
Like you can take chapters out of this book and chapters out of that book and chapters out of this book, and I can make you like uh a cliff notes to fire attack, but there wasn't one book that taught people how to think on the nozzle, and that was the light bulb moment when we started talking about this project was let's make the book that nobody else wrote.
01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:12.720
Like you take Kyle's name off the top of it and just read the pages, like rip the cover off of it with my face on it, you would think a dude in 1970 wrote this book, you know, as it should be.
01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:19.600
You know, that that dude was the victim, and that's the biggest thing that that we separate ourselves.
01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:24.720
So there's a wedge driven between the 2026 firefighter and the unprotected civilian.
01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:33.279
And if we could just talk like one of the coolest things that I talked about with Jay Camella at firemanship was that he told me that he never wore a hood in a fire, like ever.
01:14:34.239 --> 01:14:36.800
And it's like, dude, I couldn't even imagine going on a firefighter.
01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:47.119
You know, and it just uh and I'm talking to him tomorrow, Pipeman, podcast tomorrow, recording with Jay Camela, right on uh sneak peek keep the episodes coming.
01:14:47.439 --> 01:14:56.479
But yeah, uh that's one of the things that we're gonna discuss is the mindset behind, and not that he didn't have one, you know, he just didn't wear it because he didn't need it or he didn't feel he needed it, you know.
01:14:56.560 --> 01:15:06.399
And I and I'm gonna ask him, you know, why, but like we should be operating as if we're unprotected, and there's not a book that tells you how to do that, and there is now right.
01:15:07.119 --> 01:15:08.800
Fight fire like you're naked.
01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:09.600
That's right.
01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:10.159
That's right.
01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:11.199
Last line in the book.
01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:14.079
I was gonna say it, but yeah, the last line in the book.
01:15:14.319 --> 01:15:14.800
That's right.
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:16.159
Uh oh, I love it.
01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:17.359
I absolutely love it, man.
01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:18.880
Uh, both of you, I love it.
01:15:19.039 --> 01:15:24.319
Uh, I am gonna someone did ask a question about what was the one book you would give a proby.
01:15:24.479 --> 01:15:26.880
I was gonna I was gonna close it out.
01:15:27.039 --> 01:15:32.000
I was gonna close out with that on YouTube as far as the questions from the audience, but I like this one better.
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:34.880
Uh, and it's it's from Relentless Rescue.
01:15:35.039 --> 01:15:43.039
Now that we have these books coming out, what will the next books from each of you be tackling and when will we be getting those?
01:15:43.760 --> 01:15:47.600
Ian, what's the next what's the next topic you're gonna tackle?
01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:49.680
Oh man, I I don't know.
01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:51.359
That was such a big lift.
01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:54.560
Oh, I can't imagine the catharsis right now has to be huge for both of you.
01:15:54.640 --> 01:15:58.399
I mean, it has to be, but yeah, and I'm I'm I'm taking on a new job in my department.
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:02.239
Like, I I am so I'm up to here on my other stuff going on.
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:06.000
It I need I need some time to just calm and consolidate.
01:16:06.159 --> 01:16:06.960
I don't know, man.
01:16:07.119 --> 01:16:07.600
No idea.
01:16:07.840 --> 01:16:08.319
That's fair.
01:16:08.399 --> 01:16:09.760
That is very fair, Kyle.
01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:11.119
Yeah, I agree.
01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:22.479
Uh, I think life will lead us down the path of a gap that maybe we can fill, you know, and let life determine what the next book needs to be.
01:16:22.640 --> 01:16:25.600
Like where the fire, because the fire service is cyclical, man.
01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:29.760
Like, what's the next problem that we're all equally trying to solve?
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:46.720
You know, and I and I think both of us with these two books are solving a big problem in the American fire service in general, you know, and we just we just have to wait and see what the next problem is gonna be that if we even have the ability.
01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:49.039
I hope somebody else writes another book, you know.
01:16:49.119 --> 01:17:01.279
And yeah, that would be my challenge to the audience is that uh like Kyle and I wrote these because we dove super deep into a subject that we just love, right?
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:05.760
We fell in love with these particular niche areas, no one's covered them before.
01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:10.560
We developed some expertise and we're like, we got to share this.
01:17:11.119 --> 01:17:13.439
There's tons of people in the audience right now.
01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:20.880
You're sitting on expertise that Kyle and I don't have, and expertise that the rest of the fire service needs to have right now.
01:17:21.039 --> 01:17:25.600
Like, if I'll bet there's a bunch of people in the audience who are just like Kyle and me.
01:17:25.760 --> 01:17:34.640
You've got like 75 word files on your computer of half-finished articles that you thought about publishing that you maybe wanted to put together.
01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:37.359
Like, go find your mentors, reach out to them.
01:17:37.520 --> 01:17:38.880
Like, hey, could this be something?
01:17:39.039 --> 01:17:45.279
Like, yeah, send send them to fire engineering, whoever, like like start polishing your process.
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:48.319
The the next book needs to come from you guys, not from me on Kyle.
01:17:48.399 --> 01:17:52.079
Like, we we we shot we shot our shot, right?
01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:55.840
We we put our expertise out there, it's on it's on all you guys now.
01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:58.720
Yeah, and you can do it, you know.
01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:02.560
Like, and a goofball from East Texas wrote one.
01:18:02.800 --> 01:18:09.039
You know, so it's like if if a goofball from Texas can write a book, anybody can write a book.
01:18:09.199 --> 01:18:17.680
And one of the reasons why I wanted to call this book Confessions of an Engine Nerd is because the majority of this book was written through talk to text, right?
01:18:17.840 --> 01:18:26.159
Like, I'm sitting on the hood of my truck right now smoking a cigar, and if you're wondering why, it's because my wife won't let me smoke cigars in my house.
01:18:26.319 --> 01:18:42.800
So, like, the majority of the chapters of these books, this book that I wrote at least, was written through talk to text of me talking to my phone and recording confessions that I have and transcribing those confessions and then formulating them into a chapter, you know.
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:48.560
So, like, there are so many great instructors out there right now that have not written books that need to.
01:18:48.720 --> 01:19:00.640
Yeah, like all of you need to write, you know, like, and it's not you sitting down with a word document that starts with a blank page and a blinking uh cursor, you know, it's starting just talking, just talk it out.
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:03.279
You know, that's how Vincent Dunn wrote strategy of firefighting.
01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:04.880
You know, uh here's a history lesson for you.
01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:22.399
One of the things I learned from Dunn is that the strategy of firefighting book that Dunn wrote, it originated in the basement with one of his truck chauffeurs that he commanded as a battalion chief coming over to his house and putting up pictures of fires on the computer and saying, Chief, let's go to a fire.
01:19:22.560 --> 01:19:25.600
Uh tell me where the first line goes, tell me where the second line goes.
01:19:25.760 --> 01:19:28.079
What are you thinking about on ventilation profile?
01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:30.399
Where are the victims at in this particular building?
01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:37.680
And like those conversations is what stemmed its way into the strategy of firefighting book by Vincent Dunn.
01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:45.119
Like they tape recorded all those conversations, transcribed them, and back then they probably had to actually listen to them, stop every 15 seconds and type.
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:47.199
You know, who knows if it was on a typewriter or not?
01:19:47.279 --> 01:19:49.279
But like it can be done, you know.
01:19:49.359 --> 01:19:55.520
Like, so there are tons of great instructors out there that have fantastic information and delivery.
01:19:55.760 --> 01:19:59.600
Start recording your own lectures and transcribing them and then write a book.
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:01.680
That's that would be my recommendation.
01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:03.600
I love that's the next book that needs to come out.
01:20:03.760 --> 01:20:04.239
Great job, man.
01:20:04.720 --> 01:20:08.399
Great killer, killer challenge to the audience, killer challenge to the audience.
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:11.439
I asked Sam before we started, I said, How are we gonna do the five questions for firefighters?
01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:12.479
But I'm just gonna throw them at you both.
01:20:12.560 --> 01:20:13.199
I'm gonna go back and forth.
01:20:13.279 --> 01:20:16.319
I'm gonna let I'm gonna I'm gonna start with Ian, then go to Kyle, and back and forth.
01:20:16.479 --> 01:20:18.399
Both of you will answer all five questions.
01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:22.880
Are you ready for the you guys have done this before, so if not throwing anything new at you, some of them you had before.
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:24.479
Here you go.
01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:25.359
Are you guys ready?
01:20:25.439 --> 01:20:26.079
You guys know how it works.
01:20:26.159 --> 01:20:28.319
There's no right answers, only only your opinions.
01:20:28.560 --> 01:20:31.359
Max points and passed out by me with the help of the audience.
01:20:31.439 --> 01:20:31.760
Here we go.
01:20:31.920 --> 01:20:33.119
Number one to Ian.
01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:36.640
You have a time machine, you can go back in time, only use for one thing.
01:20:36.880 --> 01:20:39.199
Go back and give your younger self one piece of advice.
01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:40.800
What would that advice be?
01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:47.680
Uh, I would say pay attention to the national fire service conversation a lot, lot sooner, right?
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:54.239
I came into a big department and it was, you know, I had kids and a wife working full-time.
01:20:54.399 --> 01:21:00.640
I was busy, and I just didn't even realize like, hey, there's a whole fire service world out there.
01:21:00.800 --> 01:21:01.119
Right?
01:21:01.199 --> 01:21:08.640
There's there's all these books that there's you know, podcasters, all this stuff that's happening, all this information that's out there.
01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:11.840
Uh, and I just didn't even figure that out for like seven years.
01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:21.520
And it was, I would have been so much farther ahead if I'd just paid attention, like just gone out, gotten outside of my bubble, just even just a little bit.
01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:23.680
No, I love that.
01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:24.640
I love that, man.
01:21:24.880 --> 01:21:27.359
That's what changed my trajectory of my career.
01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:28.880
Uh, getting outside my bubble.
01:21:29.039 --> 01:21:30.319
Again, Brian Crush.
01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:32.079
But go ahead, go ahead, Kyle.
01:21:32.159 --> 01:21:32.960
Same question to you.
01:21:33.119 --> 01:21:33.840
Time machine.
01:21:34.159 --> 01:21:35.279
Ask more questions.
01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:38.159
Ask more questions, ask why.
01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:40.880
Uh, I didn't ask why for a long time.
01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:44.960
Because uh in the fire service that I grew up in, we just did what we were told.
01:21:45.119 --> 01:21:47.760
You shut up, you look down, and you did what you were told.
01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:55.920
You know, so my if I could go back and tell my younger self anything, I would say ask more questions, ask why we're doing what we're doing.
01:21:56.479 --> 01:21:58.720
And ask it in an appropriate time frame.
01:21:58.960 --> 01:22:00.720
That's another uh gold nugget there.
01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:08.319
You know, like respectfully in the stops when the airbreak hits, you know, but you know, take the opportunity to ask why we did what we did.
01:22:08.399 --> 01:22:08.960
What'd you see?
01:22:09.119 --> 01:22:10.159
Why'd we stretch here?
01:22:10.319 --> 01:22:11.039
Why'd we go there?
01:22:11.119 --> 01:22:12.079
Why'd we park there?
01:22:12.239 --> 01:22:15.680
You know, like what made you want to go through this door, not that door?
01:22:15.760 --> 01:22:19.039
You know, like if we're performing search, why'd we go left instead of right?
01:22:19.199 --> 01:22:20.560
Why'd we go right instead of left?
01:22:20.640 --> 01:22:22.319
Why'd we go through a window instead of a door?
01:22:22.479 --> 01:22:23.840
Like, ask all those questions.
01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:25.199
Right on, right on.
01:22:25.359 --> 01:22:27.840
Max points, Ian, max points, Kyle.
01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:29.359
Easy max points right out the gate.
01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:30.960
That's a nice soft toss to get things going.
01:22:31.119 --> 01:22:32.800
Number two, it's job town.
01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:33.279
It's time.
01:22:33.359 --> 01:22:34.479
I'll start with Kyle this time.
01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:35.760
You're in route responding.
01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:38.720
It's time to add a song to the Spotify playlist, is what I'm saying.
01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:41.199
So you get to add another song, Kyle.
01:22:41.359 --> 01:22:46.319
Uh, you may have the most songs in the playlist, but you get to add well, you can go with an oldie too if you want.
01:22:46.560 --> 01:22:49.359
But what's the song you're playing while in route?
01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:51.760
Uh sabotage by Beastie Boys.
01:22:51.920 --> 01:22:52.800
Beastie Boys.
01:22:52.960 --> 01:22:56.800
It is it is on it's a one of the is it on there already?
01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:57.359
Oh, it's on there.
01:22:57.439 --> 01:22:58.560
Yeah, it's one of the best intros ever.
01:22:58.640 --> 01:22:59.760
So it always gets max points.
01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:02.960
That's a that's an easy toss to get max points for me if you put the darn and daring.
01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:09.680
You know, the the the uh as I try to mouth bass the opening to sabotage, but let's put a new one on there.
01:23:09.760 --> 01:23:12.239
How about uh whole lot of rosy by ACDC?
01:23:12.479 --> 01:23:13.520
Whole lot of rosy?
01:23:13.600 --> 01:23:14.399
I have to I'll have to go.
01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:18.479
We have some ACDC, but I'm I'm I've not I I believe that's not been put on there.
01:23:18.560 --> 01:23:20.640
I'm waiting for the thumbs up or thumbs down from Sam.
01:23:20.720 --> 01:23:21.439
We'll see.
01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:22.479
Yeah.
01:23:22.960 --> 01:23:24.640
Uh he is checking, he is checking.
01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:24.960
Ian.
01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:26.880
I think Bond's got ACDC.
01:23:27.039 --> 01:23:29.920
It hey, it's never been on there, it's now on the list.
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:32.960
And whole whole lot of rosy, ACDC.
01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:34.399
Ian.
01:23:36.079 --> 01:23:38.479
Uh, I'm just going for something with a heartbeat.
01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:43.760
It's uh ready, steady, go by Paul Oakenfeld.
01:23:43.840 --> 01:23:45.520
I think Okenfold, yeah.
01:23:45.760 --> 01:23:53.439
Yeah, if you've if you don't if you don't know it, if you've ever watched The Born Identity, when he gets in that little mini and starts driving, that's what plays.
01:23:53.680 --> 01:23:54.000
Okay.
01:23:54.079 --> 01:23:59.439
Uh, it also it also plays in that uh there's another movie it plays in.
01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:00.560
I can't remember it right now.
01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:01.119
Oh, yeah.
01:24:01.199 --> 01:24:01.920
Ready state to go.
01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:02.960
Well, it's gonna be on the Spotify.
01:24:03.039 --> 01:24:05.600
If it's if it's available, it's gonna be on the Spotify playlist.
01:24:05.680 --> 01:24:06.159
So there you go.
01:24:06.560 --> 01:24:10.159
Yeah, I used to listen to uh running stairs, it's it just gets me going.
01:24:10.319 --> 01:24:11.680
Right off driving beat.
01:24:11.840 --> 01:24:15.199
Uh, Ready State to go, whole lot of rosy, max points, max points.
01:24:15.279 --> 01:24:16.239
You guys are doing good so far.
01:24:16.319 --> 01:24:18.239
Number three, cold weekend at the station.
01:24:18.319 --> 01:24:22.239
Ian, you're going first, rig checks are done, training is done, uh PT is done.
01:24:22.319 --> 01:24:24.880
In other words, it's a lazy day, but you're not being lazy.
01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:25.840
Okay, I'm gonna be clear there.
01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:28.880
You're sitting in the day room, you're clicking through the TV.
01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:29.920
What is that movie?
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:35.840
No matter how many times you've seen it before, and no matter how many commercials you're gonna have to put up with because it's on USA or whatever.
01:24:36.000 --> 01:24:38.800
What is that movie that you're gonna finish every time?
01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:40.239
What's that movie for you?
01:24:40.720 --> 01:24:42.159
Uh Aliens.
01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:43.520
Uh, I love sci-fi.
01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:45.760
That's where my you know grew up with that movie.
01:24:46.960 --> 01:24:48.239
Man, yeah.
01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:51.359
It's game over, man.
01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:55.600
I love aliens, man.
01:24:55.680 --> 01:24:57.760
Absolutely sci-fi nerd, so absolutely love it.
01:24:57.840 --> 01:24:58.880
Okay, easy max points.
01:24:58.960 --> 01:25:00.239
Now, and it's also never been said.
01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:02.000
Kyle, same question.
01:25:02.319 --> 01:25:04.239
New one Top Gun Maverick, dude.
01:25:04.319 --> 01:25:04.640
Oh, dude.
01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:07.680
Top Gun Maverick, best leadership movie ever.
01:25:07.920 --> 01:25:08.560
I love it.
01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:10.319
I absolutely love it, dude.
01:25:10.640 --> 01:25:11.279
People, yeah.
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:13.279
Sorry, you get me going on Top Gun Maverick.
01:25:13.359 --> 01:25:14.000
Okay, easy.
01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:15.119
Max points, max points.
01:25:15.199 --> 01:25:19.439
When you get me quoting movies, and then yeah, that's the only look I got.
01:25:19.680 --> 01:25:21.119
So that's right.
01:25:21.359 --> 01:25:24.079
Number four, what is the one habit?
01:25:24.239 --> 01:25:25.840
Uh, Kyle, you're first on this one.
01:25:25.920 --> 01:25:30.319
The one habit separates average firefighters from exceptional firefighters.
01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:32.159
Training every day.
01:25:32.399 --> 01:25:35.520
You know, and uh training drill doesn't have to be a physical drill.
01:25:35.680 --> 01:25:38.800
You know, you can do tactical decision gaming, you know, TDG stuff.
01:25:38.880 --> 01:25:48.319
Oh, yeah, sitting around the stable talking, you know, like uh driving back from uh EMS run or the grocery store, looking at buildings, you know, like where will we stretch here, where will we park there?
01:25:48.399 --> 01:25:50.159
Uh, how do we get the ladder in play?
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:54.159
You know, like these are things that you can do every day, you know.
01:25:54.319 --> 01:25:59.199
Uh, as an engine captain, if you're not doing uh any kind of patient care, make a lap around the building.
01:25:59.279 --> 01:26:02.399
Turn your tick on, you know, look at the building when it's not on fire.
01:26:02.640 --> 01:26:04.000
You know, train every day.
01:26:04.239 --> 01:26:05.439
Training every day, boo.
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:06.000
I'd love it.
01:26:06.079 --> 01:26:09.600
Uh Ian, he took he got the first answer, so now you get to try.
01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:12.479
He's still my answer, but I was just gonna say it in a different way.
01:26:12.640 --> 01:26:18.479
It's just like you gotta be never stop learning, you gotta have consistent improvement, just a little better every day.
01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:23.920
It's it's it's a marathon, it's not a sprint, you know, just just a little better every day.
01:26:24.319 --> 01:26:26.880
No, I love how that you guys's answers just work together.
01:26:27.039 --> 01:26:28.640
It's like it is kind of beautiful.
01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:30.640
Uh, these are tough when you got two guests on.
01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:31.119
No, it is.
01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:32.079
It's just the other guy.
01:26:32.239 --> 01:26:34.640
Whoever gets to go first gets the low-hanging fruit, you know what I'm saying?
01:26:34.720 --> 01:26:38.079
It's like uh this is the final question.
01:26:38.159 --> 01:26:39.199
You both had this question before.
01:26:39.279 --> 01:26:40.560
Kyle, you've had it a few times now.
01:26:40.720 --> 01:26:42.239
Heavy fire, searchable space.
01:26:42.319 --> 01:26:42.800
Who's first?
01:26:42.880 --> 01:26:45.279
It's Ian first this time, but I know, I know.
01:26:45.439 --> 01:26:46.880
Heavy fire, searchable space.
01:26:46.960 --> 01:26:50.319
Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES?
01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:50.880
Ian.
01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:53.359
Yeah, I'm gonna say the same thing I did last time.
01:26:53.439 --> 01:26:54.479
It's like it's VES.
01:26:54.800 --> 01:27:03.439
Like, I I love nozzle work, I love engine work, but the idea of facing the fire with just me and my wits, like it's awesome.
01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:04.479
Love that.
01:27:05.199 --> 01:27:06.800
Beautiful, Kyle.
01:27:07.039 --> 01:27:08.399
Give me the pipe, son.
01:27:08.560 --> 01:27:12.239
Give me the pipe, and VES is gonna be easy with Kyle on the nozzle.
01:27:12.319 --> 01:27:13.439
So it's just there.
01:27:13.520 --> 01:27:13.760
You go.
01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:15.439
That's how it's all works together, man.
01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:16.800
It's a beautiful, beautiful story.
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:17.760
I want the knob.
01:27:17.840 --> 01:27:18.960
Here comes your water.
01:27:19.199 --> 01:27:40.000
Uh you guys, you guys absolutely I can't say thank you enough for what you've done for the fire service, what you've taken, and and uh all your teaching, all your note-taking, all your studying, but now you you've you've invested into the fire service to get both of you uh and put it out there for everybody to look at, uh spit on, love, all of it, man.
01:27:40.479 --> 01:27:46.239
Yeah, critique, tell you what you screwed up, and how you can't that doesn't work in real, you know, all that stuff, man.
01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:51.199
You guys put it out there, and I cannot, I cannot uh say kudos enough for that.
01:27:51.279 --> 01:27:55.760
And thank you for being here and sharing uh this scrap with the audience.
01:27:55.920 --> 01:27:58.800
So uh if people want to get a hold of you, I'll start with Ian.
01:27:58.880 --> 01:28:00.000
What's the best way to get a hold of you?
01:28:00.079 --> 01:28:02.239
Get more information, get a signed copy of the book, etc.
01:28:02.399 --> 01:28:02.720
etc.
01:28:03.199 --> 01:28:08.800
Uh, if you want the book, um tomorrow you should be able to get it at Fire Engineering Books and it's on Amazon.
01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:13.039
And I guess you can get it uh like Google Play or something like that, but I can't remember.
01:28:13.279 --> 01:28:16.640
All right, but um I saw there is a Kindle version, right?
01:28:16.720 --> 01:28:17.039
I saw that.
01:28:17.119 --> 01:28:18.079
Is there a Kindle version?
01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:19.439
Yeah, there's Kindle version.
01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:20.159
Okay, yeah.
01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:28.800
Um, and then if you want to get a hold of me, just uh West Coast Fire Training at Outlook.com or uh yeah, hit me up on Facebook.
01:28:28.880 --> 01:28:34.000
There's another another easy one personal page or the West Coast Fire Training page.
01:28:34.319 --> 01:28:36.960
Kyle, best way to get a hold of you, get some info.
01:28:37.520 --> 01:28:40.720
Email man, uh KY Rommel gets at gmail.com.
01:28:40.800 --> 01:28:46.399
But I will tell you, uh, I currently have 1,143 unred emails.
01:28:46.880 --> 01:28:49.920
Todd Edwards is so mad at me right now if he's still on this.
01:28:50.560 --> 01:28:54.239
Uh that's a discussion that me and him have a lot is checking emails.
01:28:54.399 --> 01:28:55.039
Checking emails.
01:28:55.199 --> 01:28:56.880
Uh but yeah, uh send me an email.
01:28:56.960 --> 01:28:58.960
I'll get back with you maybe this year.
01:28:59.199 --> 01:29:02.319
I mean, uh it's a it's a it's a toss-up, you know.
01:29:02.399 --> 01:29:10.319
But um reach out on Smoothboard Cartel, um, Instagram, Facebook, uh kyromagus at gmail.com.
01:29:10.720 --> 01:29:11.279
Beautiful.
01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:12.159
No, I love it.
01:29:12.319 --> 01:29:13.680
And buy Ian's book.
01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:14.960
Yes, go tomorrow.
01:29:15.680 --> 01:29:17.039
Fire engineering.
01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:18.880
Buy Ian's book.
01:29:19.119 --> 01:29:21.760
Housekeeping, go to patreon.com slash the vigilantes.
01:29:21.920 --> 01:29:23.760
Go be a vigilante because vigilantes are amazing.
01:29:23.840 --> 01:29:30.960
They're the best part of uh, yeah, they're the like-minded souls, and the best part of being a vigilante is the after party, which after party is confirmed.
01:29:31.119 --> 01:29:33.119
Sam said it, he put a challenge out to the audience.
01:29:33.199 --> 01:29:34.079
They met the challenge.
01:29:34.239 --> 01:29:35.279
There will be an after party.
01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:43.279
Ian and Kyle are both invited, and the best part about the after parties is you get to roast the the guests, and so that's bring it on.
01:29:44.159 --> 01:29:45.439
They both say bring it on.
01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:49.920
Coming up next week on the scrap, it is the one and only Mike Turpak coming back to the scrap.
01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:51.439
So you know we're gonna be talking about command.
01:29:51.520 --> 01:29:54.079
Uh one of them, yeah, it's gonna be fun.
01:29:54.239 --> 01:29:55.039
Uh, let's do it.
01:29:55.119 --> 01:30:00.720
Uh, and then another Mike, the week, two weeks after that, Mike Salzano, one of the best dudes on the planet.
01:30:00.800 --> 01:30:02.800
So, Mike Turpak, Mike Salzano.
01:30:02.880 --> 01:30:06.880
The summer of 2026 is finishing in style as we roll into autumn.
01:30:07.039 --> 01:30:08.239
It is becoming amazing.
01:30:08.319 --> 01:30:09.520
So, enough jabbering for me.
01:30:09.600 --> 01:30:10.720
Let's get to the after party.
01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:14.319
Ian and Kyle, thank you so much for spending your evenings with us.
01:30:14.479 --> 01:30:15.439
Yeah, thanks, buddy.
01:30:16.399 --> 01:30:19.760
Audience, each and every week you make the scrap amazing.
01:30:19.840 --> 01:30:21.359
You come, you bring awesome questions.
01:30:21.439 --> 01:30:23.760
I didn't get to a third of the questions you guys typed.
01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:25.119
I tried, I really did.
01:30:25.359 --> 01:30:26.720
But you guys are amazing.
01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:30.640
Without you, it's just me, Kyle, and Ian talking, which would be fun for me.
01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:32.640
But your your questions absolutely crush us.
01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:34.000
So thank you for showing up each and every week.
01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:34.479
I love you.
01:30:34.640 --> 01:30:36.479
Remember, mutts don't scrap.
01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:39.520
I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning.
01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:41.520
This job will never be safe.
01:30:41.680 --> 01:30:43.920
So stay smart out there.
01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:47.279
Thanks for listening to the weekly scrap.
01:30:47.359 --> 01:30:49.359
Please subscribe and please share.
01:30:49.520 --> 01:30:51.680
We'll see you at the next episode.