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Oh my gosh, y'all. They finally did it. SpaceX finally
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put the biggest, most powerful thing to ever fly into orbit.
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A huge milestone for SpaceX, the entire Starship team, and
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for NASA's Artemis program, which hopes to use Starship to
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land NASA astronauts on the moon and beat China in
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the second space race. So what I'm going to do
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is a quick recap of the mission, all the best highlights,
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and then I'm going to talk to former NASA astronaut
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and SpaceX's former director of space operations, Garrett Eastman. But first,
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y'all gotta see this launch. It was stunning. A stunning
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launch for Starship Flight 14 and a clean, controlled splashdown
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for the Super Heavy booster. Everything looked beautiful until a
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few minutes into the mission when one of the ship's
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six Raptor engines shut down early, prompting SpaceX's Dan Hewitt
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to say this on the live stream.
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And because of that, we are not going to do
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the additional burn that will send us into orbit. So
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definitely not the outcome we were all hoping to hear today.
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So of course, everyone was bummed out. But then.
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Actually stand by... All right, everybody hang with me just
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for a couple of minutes.
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And then, after a go-no-go poll.
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We are go for orbit.
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So it was a real roller coaster for everyone watching.
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SpaceX ended up compensating for the lost engine by burning
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the remaining good engines longer. And at about 26 minutes
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after liftoff, Starship went orbital for the first time.
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On Starship. Starship is orbital. From there.
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Starship successfully deployed all 26 V3 Starlink satellites. According to SpaceX,
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this one flight added the equivalent of more than 20
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Falcon 9 flights in terms of bandwidth. So that was
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a big success. Getting into orbit was a big success.
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But SpaceX ultimately decided to bring Starship back early. And
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we don't exactly know why. What was supposed to be
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a roughly 10-hour mission ended up being only about three hours.
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But the heat shield held and Starship splashed down on
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target in the Pacific Ocean. So what a milestone. What
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a moment. Congratulations, SpaceX. But we already want to know
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what's next. When will we see another booster catch? When
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will we see the first catch of the actual ship?
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And what does Flight 14 mean for NASA's Artemis program?
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I'm going to be getting some help attempting to answer
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all of those questions from former NASA astronaut, former director
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of space operations for SpaceX, and current USC professor, Garrett Reisman.
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Garrett, it's great to see you.
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Let's just dive right in. What did you think of
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Starship Flight 14 and this mission?
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Pretty spectacular. I mean, that's the world's biggest rocket ever flown.
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And so anytime that thing lifts off the ground, it's
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pretty darn exciting. It, you know, it accomplished its primary
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mission objectives. So I would say overall it was a success.
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There was not without a few little hiccups, but yeah,
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it was really fun to watch it and see it
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go orbital for the first time. I mean, that's a
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big step, a really important step, and it was great
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to see.
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You know, it has been a moment that people in
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the space industry, certainly folks at SpaceX have been waiting
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for for quite some time. And, you know, on the
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one hand, as you said, this is the biggest, most
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powerful machine to ever fly. nothing this complicated has ever
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flown before. 14 years in development, $ 15 billion spent. Is
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it really all that much time and money for a
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piece of machinery this complicated? That's one end of the spectrum.
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But then the other end is NASA and other potential
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customers saying, hey, you guys have promised us this stuff
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years ago. You're behind schedule, behind development.
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Where do you fall.
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On that spectrum as Starship reaches this huge orbital milestone today?
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Yeah, well, you know, this is no easy task. This
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is such, you know, in so many ways, this rocket
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is completely unprecedented. It's the most powerful, as you mentioned,
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that it's 18 million pounds of thrust. Now, for over
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50 years, the Saturn V had the record for the
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biggest rocket ever successfully flown. And that record stood for
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all that time. And then the SLS rocket came along
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with 8.8 million pounds of thrust and dethroned the Saturn
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V for the first time in a long time. But now,
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just a short time later, Starship comes along and it's twice,
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it's more than twice the liftoff thrust of the SLS rocket, right?
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So we're not just going up incrementally now, we're doubling.
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And the promise of this rocket is tremendous. And so many,
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I can't overstate the, the criticality of this because so
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many things are riding on the success of the development
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of this rocket. I mean, you have all of SpaceX's plans,
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data centers in space, Starlink version three. You've got all
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of NASA's Artemis plans are also contingent. We need Starship
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as a lunar lander so that if we want to
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put astronauts back on the moon, it needs to do
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that function. So there's so much riding on this one rocket.
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And so every time we fly it, it's pretty exciting.
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It is. And I want to talk about Artemis in
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a second. But first, I just want to ask you
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about one critical moment during today's flight. And I really
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wanted to ask you about it because you really hold
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the unique position of having been a former NASA astronaut.
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You flew on the space shuttle twice, but also spending
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seven years at SpaceX as a director of space operations there.
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What do you think was going on behind the scenes
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as SpaceX was making the decision about whether or not
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to go orbital? Because the web host, the live stream
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host at one point said, you know, we're not going
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orbital today. And then a few minutes later, he was like, wait, wait, wait.
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And then a few minutes later, they did the.
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Go, no, go poll. And they were like, no, we're
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going orbital.
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So what's going on behind the scenes as they're making
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that decision?
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Yeah, so I wish I knew, Chris, you know, because
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I can only guess when I watched the same webcast
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that you did. So I would have loved to have
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been in that room and hear that discussion because obviously
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it was a very difficult decision to make. They announced, oh,
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we're not going, then all of a sudden we are going.
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So I think they had to evaluate, you know, they
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knew they lost one engine. And so they had to evaluate,
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do they have enough performance to reach orbit? And more importantly,
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the critical thing here is if you put that thing
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in orbit, You have to be able to bring it down.
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Keep in mind that this ship, the upper stage of Starship,
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is bigger than the space shuttle orbiter. And I know
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you remember when we had the horrible tragedy of Columbia
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when we lost the space shuttle and debris fell out
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all over Texas. Unfortunately, it fell in regions that were
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relatively sparsely populated. But you can imagine if Columbia came
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down in Austin or Dallas or Houston or something like that,
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it would have been horrible. Starship is bigger. So, you know,
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you need to be able to control that reentry with
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a lot of confidence before you try it, because it's
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not just some small satellite that's reentering that's going to
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burn up. You know, we don't worry so much when
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individual spacecraft come down off course or uncontrolled. Even something
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as big as, you know, you'd have to go back
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to like Skylab to look at something that approaches a
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size that came down uncontrolled. So you don't want to
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do that again. The risk to people on the Earth,
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innocent people on the Earth is too high. So you've
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got to be really confident. So they had to figure out,
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do we have the confidence that if we continue uphill
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and do the orbit burn, that we can bring it
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back and safely protect everybody on Earth? And they had
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to make that decision in minutes, right? So yeah, I
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would have liked to have been in that room and
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hear that discussion because that's some pretty high stakes stuff.
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It really is some high stakes stuff. And it kind
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of takes me back, I guess it was to Flight
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5 where they made that, decision. And I think it
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was something like, don't quote me on this, but I
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think it was like two seconds or even less where
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they were debating whether or not to return the super
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heavy booster back for that first ever historic tower catch.
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And they did, but I think later they were talking
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about it and they were like, it comes down to
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a second or two to make that kind of call.
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And it's just, you know, that's what these guys obviously
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trained for. But today I think we got a real
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taste as you just laid out of what the stakes
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could potentially be when you're trying to test this spacecraft
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and see if it can really go orbital for the
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first time.
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So let's, oh, go ahead. I was going to say,
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that's why all that training and all the simulations you
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do as an operations team is so important because it's
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really hard to make a decision like that without, you know,
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just on the spur of the moment, right? So they
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obviously have, you know, just like we did at NASA
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and like we had for Falcon 9, we have flight
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rules where You say, okay, these are the criteria by
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which it's okay to continue, and this is the no-go
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criteria where it's not okay. So a lot of that
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work is done. You try to do as much of
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that work as you can before you get there so
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you have a whole lot of tools to use to
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help guide your decision and make it the correct decision
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uh you don't want to get into a situation where
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you're having to use your gut and gut instinct and
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and usually when when you find yourself there that's when
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things have a tendency to go wrong so um so
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it's a testament to the control team uh that they
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made the right decision and and to their training and preparation.
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Yeah, and to think about them having to make that
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decision knowing how consequential this mission is, knowing the eyes
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that are watching them, and in particular, NASA. I mean,
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let's just talk a bit about the impact that this
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vehicle and this mission in particular, Flight 14, has on
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NASA's Artemis program because just next year, sometime in 2027,
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NASA wants to launch the Artemis 3 mission, which is
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no longer a lunar landing. It would be a rendezvous
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in low Earth orbit. And hopefully one of the vehicles
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that Orion will rendezvous with is Starship. But you can't
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do that until Starship has flown a few orbital missions.
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So now having seen what you saw today, are you
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confident that more or less confident that Artemis 3 will
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actually happen in 2027 and that it will actually include
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a docking with Starship.
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Yeah, so it's obviously it's very good news for Artemis 3.
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I wouldn't say we're completely, you know, ready to go. Obviously,
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you have to modify Starship with a docking system. You
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need to do everything else you need to do to
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be able to accomplish the test objectives with the human
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spaceflight for Artemis 3. as far as what they're going
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to do when they dock to ship and anything that
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would involve opening hatches or anything like that. So there's
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still a lot more work to be done on that end,
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but that's all doable. I think the important thing is
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that they demonstrated that they can get to orbit, which
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is the critical thing. Now, the other thing that they
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didn't quite prove today was that you can get to
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orbit and hang out there for a while. So Artemis
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III is not going to be You know, what was
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today like a four hour flight? It's going to be
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a lot longer.
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Three hour flight.
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There's questions. And that's why it's really important to find
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out why they came home early. And is that something
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that's going to be a problem for staying longer? Because
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they need to be able to stay in orbit for
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a long period of time. And ultimately, there's still a
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lot of work to be done before Artemis 4. And
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we could talk about that, too.
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Yeah, a lot before Artemis 4. We can get to
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that in a second. Just one more thing, you know,
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for For Artemis III, the plan is not for NASA...
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For Artemis III, the plan is not for NASA astronauts,
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the Artemis III crew, to actually go inside Starship. The
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plan is strictly to dock with Starship, at least according
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to the latest statements that NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman has made.
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But even just docking requires an added degree of risk.
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I mean, you're a former NASA astronaut. What would it
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take for you to feel comfortable flying the mission profile
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of Artemis 3, Orion and Starship docking? I mean, what
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more do you need to see before you're like, okay,
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I'll fly this?
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Right.
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Well, you need a couple of things. One, you need
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a Starship that can loiter on orbit long enough. So
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that's a big thing that was not fully demonstrated today.
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So there's that piece of it. You need confidence that
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the guidance navigation control systems are working and that the
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attitude control is steady enough that you can dock to Starship. Basically,
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that's holding still and being a good target for you.
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And then you need to work out the rendezvous, the
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relative navigation. We've done a lot of that, and I'm
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sure we can repurpose systems on Dragon, on ISS. So
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I'm fairly confident that we can solve those problems. But
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we need a Starship that can be a good target,
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that can hang out and stay still, essentially, if I
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can simplify that.
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And then you would feel comfortable flying on that or
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actually putting astronauts' lives on the line for a mission
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of that level.
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Yeah.
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Yep, as long as you're confident that it's going to.
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You know, in the past, there have been issues in development.
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I mean, going all the way back to Gemini 8,
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you remember when Neil Armstrong and David Scott, they ran
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into trouble when they did the first docking to an
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Agena booster. They almost spun out of control. So bad
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things can happen if you're, and actually that was a
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problem with the Gemini spacecraft. So I shouldn't have disparaged
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the Agena. It actually did all right in that situation. But,
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you know, you want to make sure that you have
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a well-behaving spacecraft before you put people on those vehicles
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that are coming together.
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I don't know if you noticed, but my camera angle
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has changed, and I don't know why. That's kind of awkward.
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How do I.
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Can I switch it back?
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What happened here? Huh. I thought you were just going
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for multiple angles.
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This is a two-camera shoot, didn't you know?
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Apparently it is. All right.
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Well, I know I don't have you for much longer,
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so I'm just going to keep it rolling, and we're
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just going to go with it. So that's Artemis III.
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Let's talk Artemis IV, because the degree of difficulty for
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an actual lunar landing is so much greater. I mean,
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walk me through just some of the other milestones that
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need to happen before that. is possible, including an insane
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amount of fuel transfers to get Starship fueled up to
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be able to go to the moon.
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Yeah, boy, I mean, I have more confidence in Artemis
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3 after today, but we still have a long way
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to go for Artemis 4. So in addition to everything
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that you need to continue to develop that we just
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mentioned for Artemis 3, for Artemis 4, you got to
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take Starship to the moon. And so one of the
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biggest technical hurdles in developing Starship for that mission is
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is the transfer of cryogenic propellant in space. What does
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that mean? That's taking liquid methane that's super cold and
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liquid oxygen that's really cold and pumping them in large
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quantities from one Starship to another. You've got to bring
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the two Starships together. You've got to connect them and
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open up the plumbing and the valves. And then you've
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got to pump all that from one to the other.
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And then you've got to do it multiple times in
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order to fill the tanks back up on Starship. Because
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Like what you saw today, a ship was in orbit
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around the Earth, but it only had enough gas to
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slow itself down enough to come back in a controlled
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entry and splash down into the ocean, which is what
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it did. It definitely does not have enough gas in
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the tank to go to the moon.
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Yeah, not even close.
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No, not even close, right? So you have to send
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up tanker ships and a lot of them.
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I mean, like the last number I've heard is about
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a dozen, right?
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I mean, it's a.
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ridiculously high number.
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It keeps changing. I remember at one point it was
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up to, I think 17, but it sounds like they're,
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they are getting better at it, but, but it's still
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a lot. Right. And in fact, even doing one, they
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still haven't done one. So, so that's a big piece
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of this puzzle that they have to solve for Artemis four.
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Now I should make note that they don't need to
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solve that. They don't need to demonstrate that for Artemis three.
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They also don't need to ever demonstrate that for, for example,
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all the other missions they want to do for launching
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Starlink satellites. They don't need to demonstrate that or accomplish
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that feat of refueling for sending data centers up into space.
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So there's a lot that Starship can do without ever
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demonstrating in-flight refueling. But if they want to go to
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the moon for Artemis IV, if they want to go
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to Mars for really a grand ambition that this thing
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was originally designed for, then they definitely have to solve
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that problem. But there's yet another problem that they still
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haven't demonstrated. that they need to solve in order to
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make things like a large constellation of upgraded Starlink satellites
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or data centers in space possible. And that's reusability. So
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we still haven't caught this new version of the booster,
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and we still haven't caught this new version or any
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version of the ship. And you need to be able
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to catch them both. We can't be sinking these things
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into the ocean. We need to use them again. And
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that's the only way that the economics of this will
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ever work. So what do you think?
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Are we going to see that on flight 15, a
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booster catch or a starship catch? Or do you think
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we're still a flight or two away from that?
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Well, if today went 100% successful, I would have put
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a high probability that they would try it on the
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next flight. But the thing that gives me pause are
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the engine problems that they had. So they did have
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a pretty soft splashdown of both ship and booster.
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Yeah.
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But they had engine issues. They had two engines fail
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on the booster. They had one engine fail on the ship.
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And in general, you want your engines, you know, if
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you have a rocket, you want your engines all to work.
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You know, that's kind of part of it. And so
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will they, are they confident enough that, So they did
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accomplish it today with engines that fail because they have redundancy,
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because they have extra capability.
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Mm-hmm.
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Is that enough to say, okay, we're ready to try
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to catch the ship and the booster? Because if that
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goes wrong, that could really set them back for multiple reasons,
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not the least of which is the damage it would
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do to the launch pad. So are they ready to
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give it a shot? With SpaceX, I never... You know,
363
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I never say never. So we'll see. But I think
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I would have been very confident that they would go
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for it if everything went perfectly today.
366
00:20:22.230 --> 00:20:25.029
That's exactly my attitude about SpaceX. You can never say
367
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never with SpaceX, right? But the amount of things that
368
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they have to accomplish are still daunting. But hey, that's
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what SpaceX does. And they now have a massive influx
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of cash after going public.
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So....
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If anybody can do it, it's them.
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That's true.
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So, Garrett, I know I've got to let you go,
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but before you go, I have to ask you about
376
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.859
one of the other hats that you wear. This is
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really the reason I wanted to get you on today.
378
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.519
You are a consultant on one of my favorite TV
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00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.789
shows for all mankind, and I've absolutely loved that show.
380
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I've watched every single episode. Season 6 is coming out,
381
00:21:04.349 --> 00:21:05.670
I think, sometime in 2027, right?
382
00:21:05.710 --> 00:21:06.049
Yeah, yeah.
383
00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:11.210
Can you give me any.
384
00:21:10.769 --> 00:21:15.470
Oh yeah probably sometime around the summer oh.
385
00:21:15.529 --> 00:21:19.829
Okay um can you can you give me anything can
386
00:21:19.869 --> 00:21:23.250
you tell me anything about the plot the season or
387
00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:24.710
like what are you doing right.
388
00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:29.779
Now the alien invasion kills everybody uh no i i
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00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:32.420
can't i can't tell you okay i would love to
390
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:34.180
christian you know i would love to maybe when we
391
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.869
shut this uh these microphones off but um But no,
392
00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:40.670
I can tell you this, that it's pretty awesome. So
393
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.140
the shooting is all done. It's all in the cam.
394
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.079
We're in post-production now. So now we're just doing edits
395
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:53.599
and visual, you know, VFX and some audio dubbing. But
396
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.130
other than that, it's done. And I can tell you,
397
00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:59.490
I'll tell you this. I watched for the first time
398
00:21:59.509 --> 00:22:02.769
a cut of the final episode. the last season, the
399
00:22:02.829 --> 00:22:07.390
final episode. And this, I can't give you any specifics,
400
00:22:07.430 --> 00:22:09.630
but I'll tell you this, that even though I had,
401
00:22:09.869 --> 00:22:11.690
you know, read the script, gave notes on the script,
402
00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:13.730
work on it. So I saw the sets before they
403
00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:16.509
shot and everything. But when I watched the cut on
404
00:22:16.549 --> 00:22:22.769
my little computer screen, I started crying. I really, I really,
405
00:22:23.109 --> 00:22:26.670
I got all teary eyed and, and it's amazing that
406
00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:30.210
the final episode, final episode is, is, is it really
407
00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:30.670
grabbed you?
408
00:22:30.950 --> 00:22:34.720
So, um, and this is it final season, no more,
409
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:36.099
or do we not know?
410
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:36.200
Yeah.
411
00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:37.519
Yeah.
412
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.519
No, that's wow. Um, I mean, uh, I guess, you know,
413
00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:46.009
the entire solar system doesn't, I can give you this spoiler.
414
00:22:46.490 --> 00:22:49.630
The entire solar system does not get swallowed by a
415
00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:52.069
black hole or anything. So I guess it's possible that
416
00:22:52.109 --> 00:22:56.049
we could reboot or start it. But no, this is it.
417
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This is the end.
418
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Fair enough. All right. Well, Garrett, you've been very generous
419
00:23:01.970 --> 00:23:05.930
with your time. Thank you. I insist on having you
420
00:23:05.950 --> 00:23:08.809
back on sometime when I'm not, when I can actually
421
00:23:08.849 --> 00:23:11.390
look you in the face. This is so weird. But
422
00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:15.789
thanks for bearing with me in my technical difficulties today.
423
00:23:15.809 --> 00:23:18.990
No, it's no problem. Good to see you, Chris. It's
424
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always a pleasure.
1
00:00:00.460 --> 00:00:04.919
Oh my gosh, y'all. They finally did it. SpaceX finally
2
00:00:04.980 --> 00:00:09.019
put the biggest, most powerful thing to ever fly into orbit.
3
00:00:09.460 --> 00:00:13.519
A huge milestone for SpaceX, the entire Starship team, and
4
00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:17.329
for NASA's Artemis program, which hopes to use Starship to
5
00:00:17.390 --> 00:00:21.269
land NASA astronauts on the moon and beat China in
6
00:00:21.289 --> 00:00:24.649
the second space race. So what I'm going to do
7
00:00:24.789 --> 00:00:27.769
is a quick recap of the mission, all the best highlights,
8
00:00:27.969 --> 00:00:31.289
and then I'm going to talk to former NASA astronaut
9
00:00:31.390 --> 00:00:37.609
and SpaceX's former director of space operations, Garrett Eastman. But first,
10
00:00:38.030 --> 00:00:53.299
y'all gotta see this launch. It was stunning. A stunning
11
00:00:53.420 --> 00:00:56.979
launch for Starship Flight 14 and a clean, controlled splashdown
12
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for the Super Heavy booster. Everything looked beautiful until a
13
00:01:01.450 --> 00:01:03.810
few minutes into the mission when one of the ship's
14
00:01:04.290 --> 00:01:08.530
six Raptor engines shut down early, prompting SpaceX's Dan Hewitt
15
00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:10.920
to say this on the live stream.
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And because of that, we are not going to do
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the additional burn that will send us into orbit. So
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definitely not the outcome we were all hoping to hear today.
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So of course, everyone was bummed out. But then.
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Actually stand by... All right, everybody hang with me just
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for a couple of minutes.
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And then, after a go-no-go poll.
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We are go for orbit.
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So it was a real roller coaster for everyone watching.
25
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SpaceX ended up compensating for the lost engine by burning
26
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the remaining good engines longer. And at about 26 minutes
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after liftoff, Starship went orbital for the first time.
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On Starship. Starship is orbital. From there.
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Starship successfully deployed all 26 V3 Starlink satellites. According to SpaceX,
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this one flight added the equivalent of more than 20
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Falcon 9 flights in terms of bandwidth. So that was
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a big success. Getting into orbit was a big success.
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But SpaceX ultimately decided to bring Starship back early. And
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we don't exactly know why. What was supposed to be
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a roughly 10-hour mission ended up being only about three hours.
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But the heat shield held and Starship splashed down on
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target in the Pacific Ocean. So what a milestone. What
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a moment. Congratulations, SpaceX. But we already want to know
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what's next. When will we see another booster catch? When
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will we see the first catch of the actual ship?
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And what does Flight 14 mean for NASA's Artemis program?
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I'm going to be getting some help attempting to answer
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all of those questions from former NASA astronaut, former director
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of space operations for SpaceX, and current USC professor, Garrett Reisman.
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Garrett, it's great to see you.
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Let's just dive right in. What did you think of
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Starship Flight 14 and this mission?
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Pretty spectacular. I mean, that's the world's biggest rocket ever flown.
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And so anytime that thing lifts off the ground, it's
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pretty darn exciting. It, you know, it accomplished its primary
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mission objectives. So I would say overall it was a success.
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There was not without a few little hiccups, but yeah,
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it was really fun to watch it and see it
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go orbital for the first time. I mean, that's a
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big step, a really important step, and it was great
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to see.
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You know, it has been a moment that people in
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the space industry, certainly folks at SpaceX have been waiting
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for for quite some time. And, you know, on the
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one hand, as you said, this is the biggest, most
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powerful machine to ever fly. nothing this complicated has ever
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flown before. 14 years in development, $ 15 billion spent. Is
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it really all that much time and money for a
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piece of machinery this complicated? That's one end of the spectrum.
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But then the other end is NASA and other potential
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customers saying, hey, you guys have promised us this stuff
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years ago. You're behind schedule, behind development.
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Where do you fall.
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On that spectrum as Starship reaches this huge orbital milestone today?
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Yeah, well, you know, this is no easy task. This
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is such, you know, in so many ways, this rocket
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is completely unprecedented. It's the most powerful, as you mentioned,
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that it's 18 million pounds of thrust. Now, for over
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50 years, the Saturn V had the record for the
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biggest rocket ever successfully flown. And that record stood for
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all that time. And then the SLS rocket came along
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with 8.8 million pounds of thrust and dethroned the Saturn
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V for the first time in a long time. But now,
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just a short time later, Starship comes along and it's twice,
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it's more than twice the liftoff thrust of the SLS rocket, right?
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So we're not just going up incrementally now, we're doubling.
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And the promise of this rocket is tremendous. And so many,
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I can't overstate the, the criticality of this because so
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many things are riding on the success of the development
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of this rocket. I mean, you have all of SpaceX's plans,
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data centers in space, Starlink version three. You've got all
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of NASA's Artemis plans are also contingent. We need Starship
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as a lunar lander so that if we want to
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put astronauts back on the moon, it needs to do
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that function. So there's so much riding on this one rocket.
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And so every time we fly it, it's pretty exciting.
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It is. And I want to talk about Artemis in
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a second. But first, I just want to ask you
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about one critical moment during today's flight. And I really
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wanted to ask you about it because you really hold
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the unique position of having been a former NASA astronaut.
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You flew on the space shuttle twice, but also spending
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seven years at SpaceX as a director of space operations there.
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What do you think was going on behind the scenes
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as SpaceX was making the decision about whether or not
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to go orbital? Because the web host, the live stream
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host at one point said, you know, we're not going
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orbital today. And then a few minutes later, he was like, wait, wait, wait.
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And then a few minutes later, they did the.
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Go, no, go poll. And they were like, no, we're
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going orbital.
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So what's going on behind the scenes as they're making
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that decision?
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Yeah, so I wish I knew, Chris, you know, because
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I can only guess when I watched the same webcast
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that you did. So I would have loved to have
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been in that room and hear that discussion because obviously
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it was a very difficult decision to make. They announced, oh,
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we're not going, then all of a sudden we are going.
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So I think they had to evaluate, you know, they
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knew they lost one engine. And so they had to evaluate,
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do they have enough performance to reach orbit? And more importantly,
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the critical thing here is if you put that thing
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in orbit, You have to be able to bring it down.
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Keep in mind that this ship, the upper stage of Starship,
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is bigger than the space shuttle orbiter. And I know
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you remember when we had the horrible tragedy of Columbia
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when we lost the space shuttle and debris fell out
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all over Texas. Unfortunately, it fell in regions that were
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relatively sparsely populated. But you can imagine if Columbia came
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down in Austin or Dallas or Houston or something like that,
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it would have been horrible. Starship is bigger. So, you know,
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you need to be able to control that reentry with
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a lot of confidence before you try it, because it's
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not just some small satellite that's reentering that's going to
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burn up. You know, we don't worry so much when
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individual spacecraft come down off course or uncontrolled. Even something
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as big as, you know, you'd have to go back
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to like Skylab to look at something that approaches a
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size that came down uncontrolled. So you don't want to
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do that again. The risk to people on the Earth,
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innocent people on the Earth is too high. So you've
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got to be really confident. So they had to figure out,
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do we have the confidence that if we continue uphill
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and do the orbit burn, that we can bring it
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back and safely protect everybody on Earth? And they had
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to make that decision in minutes, right? So yeah, I
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would have liked to have been in that room and
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hear that discussion because that's some pretty high stakes stuff.
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It really is some high stakes stuff. And it kind
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of takes me back, I guess it was to Flight
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5 where they made that, decision. And I think it
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was something like, don't quote me on this, but I
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think it was like two seconds or even less where
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they were debating whether or not to return the super
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heavy booster back for that first ever historic tower catch.
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And they did, but I think later they were talking
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about it and they were like, it comes down to
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a second or two to make that kind of call.
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And it's just, you know, that's what these guys obviously
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trained for. But today I think we got a real
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taste as you just laid out of what the stakes
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could potentially be when you're trying to test this spacecraft
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and see if it can really go orbital for the
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first time.
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So let's, oh, go ahead. I was going to say,
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that's why all that training and all the simulations you
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do as an operations team is so important because it's
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really hard to make a decision like that without, you know,
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just on the spur of the moment, right? So they
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obviously have, you know, just like we did at NASA
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and like we had for Falcon 9, we have flight
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rules where You say, okay, these are the criteria by
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which it's okay to continue, and this is the no-go
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criteria where it's not okay. So a lot of that
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work is done. You try to do as much of
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that work as you can before you get there so
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you have a whole lot of tools to use to
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help guide your decision and make it the correct decision
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uh you don't want to get into a situation where
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you're having to use your gut and gut instinct and
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and usually when when you find yourself there that's when
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things have a tendency to go wrong so um so
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it's a testament to the control team uh that they
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made the right decision and and to their training and preparation.
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Yeah, and to think about them having to make that
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decision knowing how consequential this mission is, knowing the eyes
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that are watching them, and in particular, NASA. I mean,
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let's just talk a bit about the impact that this
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vehicle and this mission in particular, Flight 14, has on
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NASA's Artemis program because just next year, sometime in 2027,
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NASA wants to launch the Artemis 3 mission, which is
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no longer a lunar landing. It would be a rendezvous
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in low Earth orbit. And hopefully one of the vehicles
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that Orion will rendezvous with is Starship. But you can't
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do that until Starship has flown a few orbital missions.
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So now having seen what you saw today, are you
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confident that more or less confident that Artemis 3 will
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actually happen in 2027 and that it will actually include
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a docking with Starship.
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Yeah, so it's obviously it's very good news for Artemis 3.
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I wouldn't say we're completely, you know, ready to go. Obviously,
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you have to modify Starship with a docking system. You
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need to do everything else you need to do to
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be able to accomplish the test objectives with the human
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spaceflight for Artemis 3. as far as what they're going
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to do when they dock to ship and anything that
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would involve opening hatches or anything like that. So there's
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still a lot more work to be done on that end,
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but that's all doable. I think the important thing is
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that they demonstrated that they can get to orbit, which
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is the critical thing. Now, the other thing that they
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didn't quite prove today was that you can get to
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orbit and hang out there for a while. So Artemis
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III is not going to be You know, what was
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today like a four hour flight? It's going to be
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a lot longer.
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Three hour flight.
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There's questions. And that's why it's really important to find
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out why they came home early. And is that something
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that's going to be a problem for staying longer? Because
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they need to be able to stay in orbit for
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a long period of time. And ultimately, there's still a
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lot of work to be done before Artemis 4. And
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we could talk about that, too.
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Yeah, a lot before Artemis 4. We can get to
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that in a second. Just one more thing, you know,
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for For Artemis III, the plan is not for NASA...
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For Artemis III, the plan is not for NASA astronauts,
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the Artemis III crew, to actually go inside Starship. The
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plan is strictly to dock with Starship, at least according
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to the latest statements that NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman has made.
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But even just docking requires an added degree of risk.
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I mean, you're a former NASA astronaut. What would it
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take for you to feel comfortable flying the mission profile
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of Artemis 3, Orion and Starship docking? I mean, what
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more do you need to see before you're like, okay,
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I'll fly this?
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Right.
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Well, you need a couple of things. One, you need
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a Starship that can loiter on orbit long enough. So
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that's a big thing that was not fully demonstrated today.
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So there's that piece of it. You need confidence that
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the guidance navigation control systems are working and that the
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attitude control is steady enough that you can dock to Starship. Basically,
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that's holding still and being a good target for you.
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And then you need to work out the rendezvous, the
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relative navigation. We've done a lot of that, and I'm
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sure we can repurpose systems on Dragon, on ISS. So
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I'm fairly confident that we can solve those problems. But
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we need a Starship that can be a good target,
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that can hang out and stay still, essentially, if I
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can simplify that.
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And then you would feel comfortable flying on that or
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actually putting astronauts' lives on the line for a mission
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of that level.
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Yeah.
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Yep, as long as you're confident that it's going to.
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You know, in the past, there have been issues in development.
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I mean, going all the way back to Gemini 8,
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you remember when Neil Armstrong and David Scott, they ran
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into trouble when they did the first docking to an
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Agena booster. They almost spun out of control. So bad
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things can happen if you're, and actually that was a
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problem with the Gemini spacecraft. So I shouldn't have disparaged
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the Agena. It actually did all right in that situation. But,
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you know, you want to make sure that you have
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a well-behaving spacecraft before you put people on those vehicles
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that are coming together.
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I don't know if you noticed, but my camera angle
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has changed, and I don't know why. That's kind of awkward.
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How do I.
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Can I switch it back?
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What happened here? Huh. I thought you were just going
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for multiple angles.
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This is a two-camera shoot, didn't you know?
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Apparently it is. All right.
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Well, I know I don't have you for much longer,
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so I'm just going to keep it rolling, and we're
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just going to go with it. So that's Artemis III.
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Let's talk Artemis IV, because the degree of difficulty for
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an actual lunar landing is so much greater. I mean,
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walk me through just some of the other milestones that
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need to happen before that. is possible, including an insane
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amount of fuel transfers to get Starship fueled up to
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be able to go to the moon.
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Yeah, boy, I mean, I have more confidence in Artemis
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3 after today, but we still have a long way
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to go for Artemis 4. So in addition to everything
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that you need to continue to develop that we just
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mentioned for Artemis 3, for Artemis 4, you got to
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take Starship to the moon. And so one of the
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biggest technical hurdles in developing Starship for that mission is
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is the transfer of cryogenic propellant in space. What does
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that mean? That's taking liquid methane that's super cold and
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liquid oxygen that's really cold and pumping them in large
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quantities from one Starship to another. You've got to bring
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the two Starships together. You've got to connect them and
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open up the plumbing and the valves. And then you've
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got to pump all that from one to the other.
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And then you've got to do it multiple times in
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order to fill the tanks back up on Starship. Because
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Like what you saw today, a ship was in orbit
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around the Earth, but it only had enough gas to
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slow itself down enough to come back in a controlled
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entry and splash down into the ocean, which is what
302
00:17:03.230 --> 00:17:06.009
it did. It definitely does not have enough gas in
303
00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:07.309
the tank to go to the moon.
304
00:17:08.250 --> 00:17:09.849
Yeah, not even close.
305
00:17:11.089 --> 00:17:13.369
No, not even close, right? So you have to send
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up tanker ships and a lot of them.
307
00:17:16.049 --> 00:17:19.150
I mean, like the last number I've heard is about
308
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a dozen, right?
309
00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:21.480
I mean, it's a.
310
00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:23.420
ridiculously high number.
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00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:26.420
It keeps changing. I remember at one point it was
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up to, I think 17, but it sounds like they're,
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they are getting better at it, but, but it's still
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a lot. Right. And in fact, even doing one, they
315
00:17:35.180 --> 00:17:39.420
still haven't done one. So, so that's a big piece
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of this puzzle that they have to solve for Artemis four.
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Now I should make note that they don't need to
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solve that. They don't need to demonstrate that for Artemis three.
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00:17:47.470 --> 00:17:50.730
They also don't need to ever demonstrate that for, for example,
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00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:53.259
all the other missions they want to do for launching
321
00:17:53.380 --> 00:17:56.319
Starlink satellites. They don't need to demonstrate that or accomplish
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00:17:56.339 --> 00:18:02.119
that feat of refueling for sending data centers up into space.
323
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So there's a lot that Starship can do without ever
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demonstrating in-flight refueling. But if they want to go to
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the moon for Artemis IV, if they want to go
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to Mars for really a grand ambition that this thing
327
00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:16.119
was originally designed for, then they definitely have to solve
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00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.920
that problem. But there's yet another problem that they still
329
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:23.099
haven't demonstrated. that they need to solve in order to
330
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make things like a large constellation of upgraded Starlink satellites
331
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or data centers in space possible. And that's reusability. So
332
00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:35.380
we still haven't caught this new version of the booster,
333
00:18:35.509 --> 00:18:38.369
and we still haven't caught this new version or any
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version of the ship. And you need to be able
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to catch them both. We can't be sinking these things
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into the ocean. We need to use them again. And
337
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that's the only way that the economics of this will
338
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ever work. So what do you think?
339
00:18:51.210 --> 00:18:55.230
Are we going to see that on flight 15, a
340
00:18:55.269 --> 00:18:57.450
booster catch or a starship catch? Or do you think
341
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we're still a flight or two away from that?
342
00:19:00.730 --> 00:19:06.460
Well, if today went 100% successful, I would have put
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a high probability that they would try it on the
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next flight. But the thing that gives me pause are
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the engine problems that they had. So they did have
346
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:18.259
a pretty soft splashdown of both ship and booster.
347
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:18.579
Yeah.
348
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.079
But they had engine issues. They had two engines fail
349
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:27.220
on the booster. They had one engine fail on the ship.
350
00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:30.839
And in general, you want your engines, you know, if
351
00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:33.299
you have a rocket, you want your engines all to work.
352
00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:38.730
You know, that's kind of part of it. And so
353
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will they, are they confident enough that, So they did
354
00:19:44.259 --> 00:19:47.849
accomplish it today with engines that fail because they have redundancy,
355
00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:49.470
because they have extra capability.
356
00:19:49.529 --> 00:19:49.750
Mm-hmm.
357
00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:53.029
Is that enough to say, okay, we're ready to try
358
00:19:53.069 --> 00:19:55.029
to catch the ship and the booster? Because if that
359
00:19:55.069 --> 00:19:59.109
goes wrong, that could really set them back for multiple reasons,
360
00:19:59.190 --> 00:20:00.849
not the least of which is the damage it would
361
00:20:00.890 --> 00:20:05.089
do to the launch pad. So are they ready to
362
00:20:05.130 --> 00:20:10.700
give it a shot? With SpaceX, I never... You know,
363
00:20:11.420 --> 00:20:16.759
I never say never. So we'll see. But I think
364
00:20:16.779 --> 00:20:19.180
I would have been very confident that they would go
365
00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:21.250
for it if everything went perfectly today.
366
00:20:22.230 --> 00:20:25.029
That's exactly my attitude about SpaceX. You can never say
367
00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:28.569
never with SpaceX, right? But the amount of things that
368
00:20:28.589 --> 00:20:32.430
they have to accomplish are still daunting. But hey, that's
369
00:20:32.470 --> 00:20:35.819
what SpaceX does. And they now have a massive influx
370
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.240
of cash after going public.
371
00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:38.890
So....
372
00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:41.539
If anybody can do it, it's them.
373
00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:44.619
That's true.
374
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:45.920
So, Garrett, I know I've got to let you go,
375
00:20:45.980 --> 00:20:47.680
but before you go, I have to ask you about
376
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.859
one of the other hats that you wear. This is
377
00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:52.079
really the reason I wanted to get you on today.
378
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.519
You are a consultant on one of my favorite TV
379
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.789
shows for all mankind, and I've absolutely loved that show.
380
00:20:59.809 --> 00:21:04.329
I've watched every single episode. Season 6 is coming out,
381
00:21:04.349 --> 00:21:05.670
I think, sometime in 2027, right?
382
00:21:05.710 --> 00:21:06.049
Yeah, yeah.
383
00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:11.210
Can you give me any.
384
00:21:10.769 --> 00:21:15.470
Oh yeah probably sometime around the summer oh.
385
00:21:15.529 --> 00:21:19.829
Okay um can you can you give me anything can
386
00:21:19.869 --> 00:21:23.250
you tell me anything about the plot the season or
387
00:21:23.309 --> 00:21:24.710
like what are you doing right.
388
00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:29.779
Now the alien invasion kills everybody uh no i i
389
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:32.420
can't i can't tell you okay i would love to
390
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:34.180
christian you know i would love to maybe when we
391
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.869
shut this uh these microphones off but um But no,
392
00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:40.670
I can tell you this, that it's pretty awesome. So
393
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.140
the shooting is all done. It's all in the cam.
394
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.079
We're in post-production now. So now we're just doing edits
395
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:53.599
and visual, you know, VFX and some audio dubbing. But
396
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.130
other than that, it's done. And I can tell you,
397
00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:59.490
I'll tell you this. I watched for the first time
398
00:21:59.509 --> 00:22:02.769
a cut of the final episode. the last season, the
399
00:22:02.829 --> 00:22:07.390
final episode. And this, I can't give you any specifics,
400
00:22:07.430 --> 00:22:09.630
but I'll tell you this, that even though I had,
401
00:22:09.869 --> 00:22:11.690
you know, read the script, gave notes on the script,
402
00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:13.730
work on it. So I saw the sets before they
403
00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:16.509
shot and everything. But when I watched the cut on
404
00:22:16.549 --> 00:22:22.769
my little computer screen, I started crying. I really, I really,
405
00:22:23.109 --> 00:22:26.670
I got all teary eyed and, and it's amazing that
406
00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:30.210
the final episode, final episode is, is, is it really
407
00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:30.670
grabbed you?
408
00:22:30.950 --> 00:22:34.720
So, um, and this is it final season, no more,
409
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:36.099
or do we not know?
410
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:36.200
Yeah.
411
00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:37.519
Yeah.
412
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.519
No, that's wow. Um, I mean, uh, I guess, you know,
413
00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:46.009
the entire solar system doesn't, I can give you this spoiler.
414
00:22:46.490 --> 00:22:49.630
The entire solar system does not get swallowed by a
415
00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:52.069
black hole or anything. So I guess it's possible that
416
00:22:52.109 --> 00:22:56.049
we could reboot or start it. But no, this is it.
417
00:22:57.089 --> 00:22:58.210
This is the end.
418
00:22:59.349 --> 00:23:01.930
Fair enough. All right. Well, Garrett, you've been very generous
419
00:23:01.970 --> 00:23:05.930
with your time. Thank you. I insist on having you
420
00:23:05.950 --> 00:23:08.809
back on sometime when I'm not, when I can actually
421
00:23:08.849 --> 00:23:11.390
look you in the face. This is so weird. But
422
00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:15.789
thanks for bearing with me in my technical difficulties today.
423
00:23:15.809 --> 00:23:18.990
No, it's no problem. Good to see you, Chris. It's
424
00:23:19.009 --> 00:23:19.490
always a pleasure.
