Tils: Well, the fastest stage since nineteen ninety nine when Mario Cipellini took the stage over fifty kilometres per hour average. Well, welcome back to the Domestiques podcast. A big thank you to Black Sheep Cycling. He's been missed but he's backed. I've gained one but lost the other. Marco has jetted to Europe, but Hollywood is back. How are you, mate? How's your week going?
Lee: I'm very good. I thought you're gonna say when you were saying fifty kilometres an hour you thought you're gonna talk about North Road long on Wednesday, 'cause that was a very quick morning, but no it was a tour de France. I'm good, it's good to be back.
Tils: Ha ha ha ha. well before we get to our special guest, do you wanna defend yourself? Marco was slating you on Monday that you were dropped on the beach road bash.
Lee: Look, even champions have bad days. And yeah, I did get dropped twice, but now thanks to Join Cycling, I've signed up. It's very easy to sign up and it automatically syncs across to your Zwift account and your Strava and all that stuff. So I will be on the comeback to turn that around thanks to Join Cycling.
Tils: Well, it was a good transition. I was about to say I know just what you need. but joint cycling have over eight hundred cycling workouts. Eight hundred. and that's why we love them. But also a lot of us at the moment are running our and cycling and they do both. I know a few people who use the runner app, I'd get rid of that. and just check out join. You put in your running goal, put in your cycling goal, type in your availability and join write you the entire program. you can click the link in our show notes, join Sign up for 30 days free to check it out. There's no lock-in, you just get to have a go of it, and it's really impressive. Well, speaking of coaching, our special guest today returns to the Domestiques. He is a gold medalist on the track. He competed and completed, I think, eleven grand tours over his career with stage victory at the Vuelta Espana. However, he is best known for being one of the best leadout men in the Peloton riding for HTC, Team Sky, and Lotto, with Andre Gripel crediting most of his wins to the great man. It is Kiwi Greg Henderson. Welcome back, Endo.
Greg: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Tils: Now Hendo before we get into the tour, and I can't wait to break down what you think of all the sprints, tell us about yeah, you're over in Europe again this year, but you've got a new role this year. What's what's happening for you?
Greg: Yeah, I'm I'm predominantly coaching, obviously. I it's it's something I really enjoy. looking after any everything from world tour riders, track riders, gravel riders, all ages and capabilities. It's it's something it's really it's really passionate to me actually 'cause I I get a real kick from it, seeing them achieve.
Lee: Mm.
Greg: And you know, it goes it goes really nicely with the studies that I did. Obviously when I finish my career, I finish off my exercise science degree and it's it's just really a passion of mine. So I've really moved my focus towards that this season and I've been really, really enjoying it.
Lee: You've certainly turned around Chris McKay. I've noticed he've him gone from this just punt and now he's flying into bunches. So you've certainly turned him around. He he loves you coaching him. He's doing a you've done a great job with him. He's a great guy.
Tils: and
Greg: thank you. No, he he's a really cool like I have having a great time. And he he loved I think he just loves the the structure of a program, you know, like it's just really what to do each day. You know, you can get carried away on the bunch rides as you know, Lee, and sometimes you do need a bit of structure, you know, and you know and I I don't don't get me wrong, there's so much benefit on a a a really fast, really fun bunch ride and you've got to keep training fun, but
Lee: Yeah. He does. Yes. Yep. Yes, yes. Yes, very true. No.
Greg: Mix it and get him out there and doing the stuff that he's missing and yeah, he's really coming along nicely and he's enjoying it, which is the main thing.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Tils: Hendo, are you doing much in the sprinting? you've you've obviously done a lot of coaching in sprinting with the professional teams. Are you doing much of that anymore?
Greg: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing a little bit. looking after some riders here in Girona. Noah Hobbs, for example, was he rides for EF actually and but I'm in in constant contact with him and then obviously with the the team Q thirty six we're doing a bit of work. but yeah it's it's a a step back a little bit actually from time on the road. yeah, just
Tils: Yeah. Yeah.
Greg: For me it was just too much. and I'm just really enjoying what I'm doing now.
Tils: Yeah, fantastic. Well, you were one of the first to come to mind that we wanted to have you on after two sprint stages back to back and with your knowledge and expertise, not just as a leadout rider, but I think you you've always got such a good viewpoint. I always find that leadout riders actually have the best analysis of sprints. when it comes to the the raw sprinters, they get to just do the last sort of hundred meters, but the navigating and what the leadouts do, you know, it's really those riders. Deliver the riders to the front, unless you're sort of Tim Merlier who seems to be able to do it, do it on his own. But I feel like I can watch sprint stages like 20 times. You pick one rider and you just re-watch the last kilometer. You pick another rider and re-watch it again and again, and it it's just such an art where a hundred different things need to go your way to pull it off. But stage twelve, or actually before we get into stage twelve. And what's what's your viewpoint of the how the sprints have been overall so far at Latour?
Greg: Well, actually unfortunately they've become a bit predictable, haven't they? you've got two guys on a level. It's a bit like when Cavendish and and Gripal were in the Paloton. You know they had to get it pretty wrong for one of them not to win. And it seems that's the way this year as well with with COI Millierre. I like their different approaches. I don't agree with everything that they do.
Lee: Mm. Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: You know, I'd have some serious conversations, I guess. but yeah, it's it's incredible how quick that Millier is, but questionable in his positioning. and you can just tell when the way the way Corey is sprinting and where he's coming from, how he's been delivered. You can tell that Mark Renshaw's in the background in his ear 'cause Mark Grinshaw has the same the same ethos as I do around bunch sprinting, you know, and it very rarely gets it wrong.
Lee: Well
Tils: Yeah. Yeah. and so the one surprise though in saying that, Hendo was on stage twelve, Soren Warrenchgold from UNO X taking the win, the surprise win, I think in a chaotic sprint, U UNOX are having an incredible tour so far, particularly when there's been just such limited opportunities to do anything. but should Coy have won that stage and should Pedderson have been relegated in that stage?
Greg: firstly yes, I think Cory will be kicking himself. and have a fair bit of explaining to do on the bus to the boys. I've no clue why he left his leadout man. you know, I know what he was thinking, it's too early. I've g he's he's open too early, but there's a simple way around that. You you stay on the barrier so that you can only see s they're only gonna come on the left hand side of you. And you lay off the wheel. You lay off your leadout man.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: Gripal's done it to me multiple times. I've had to go 'cause I felt the pause. I've had to open early. And Gripel knows sit off one, even two lengths. And then as soon as you feel them, bang, you run at the wheel. So he's getting a drive into the slipstream. No one would have come close. And he actually had two opportunities because then Sorange Gold went bang down the inside of the barriers. And he could have chased that wheel all the way to the line and passed it as well. but he let that go as well. I mean, I just couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Greg: at three hundred metres he's freewheeling looking for someone to fill the gap. I was like, mate, you're in a Tour de France bunch print. Go. So that was yeah, I mean, but then I was who was I speaking to? Anyway, I was speaking to someone I I just keep forgetting that they're actually young kids, you know, like sure I may have done a hundred, two hundred bunch sprints and and been in that scenario multiple times, but he's still a young kid, you know. Yes he's the fastest in the one of the fastest in the world.
Lee: Mm.
Tils: Yeah. Mm, mm.
Greg: And he's winning, but it doesn't mean he's been in that scenario ten times to correct it, you know. They're just they're so young still. So th they actually unfortunately are still learning and making mistakes on the bigger stage, you know, at the Tour de France.
Tils: Mm. Do you find We've talked we talked about this a little bit with Chris Hamilton on Monday's pod, Greg, when I was observing how much the G C teams have stepped out of being a part of the last, you know, ten K pretty much at all, in the sprints and how much one thing I I didn't bring up though was like how much that is causing the sprint teams to do so much effort. Like I think one thing that's been notable from this tour is except for potentially Jesper Phillips and De Kounik, there's been really no proper leadouts or teams that are able to get together because there's just you know, they're sort of on their hands and knees it seems in that that last kilometer. And also then that the sprint stages seem to be turning into potential breakaway stages because it's been so hard to get in the break if Tate can win the stage.
Greg: A couple of things to unpack there actually. Yeah, interesting interesting type. I can tell you a funny story first. so you mentioned, you know, the G C teams sort of setting to the back a little bit now, which is which is great, for them for sure. Because an example was I think it what year did Kidell win the tour? I don't know.
Lee: Yeah, I dunno. Not too sure.
Greg: Anyway, we were
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: coming into a bunch sprint and the same situation. He's with BMC, he's pinned on the right. I'm holding position because we're coming up, you know, we're out just outside the 3K. He doesn't want to be there. But but he's beside me. I'm with banging handlebars and I'm just like, this is crazy that I'm having to shift the yellow jersey right now and at three nearly three K's to go. And I'm like, Cadell, I don't I don't want to do this, mate, but I'm gonna have to move you because I need to be there.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Wow.
Greg: And I'm like, well f well move please. That's what I said, exactly my words. Well move please. And yeah, nothing nothing untoward happened, but I was just thinking, you know, how crazy it was that I I was gonna have to shift the yellow jersey of Natour de France because of this stupid rule that they have to be up there to protect their so I'm really happy to to see it change. going back to
Lee: Ha ha ha ha!
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Mm.
Greg: The sprint teams on their hands and knees. Yeah, look, I just think the way I feel like the sprint trains are in like a circle. Like it's going in it's like bell bottoms, isn't it? They come back into fashion and then they go back out and they come back. So I just don't think the teams have fully dedicated it that full structure of the leadout because, you know, I've said before, what's the easiest thing to do? Easiest thing is to be seen on TV and be at the front at five K's to go. So you have a man for that.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: And then what's the hardest thing to do is be together at two Ks to go when it's actually time to go. And you need you need four riders for that minimum. And teams just haven't haven't put four riders together. If you had four riders that knew start line, finish line, there they would make the two K and they would get to the finish line. No problem. It's just I don't feel that they have teams that dedicated that many riders. You I I think you can see Astana have tried, but I don't know who's doing their
Tils: Hm.
Greg: their sprint pro tactics, but they arrive way, way too early. And it's the same at Raw. It's easy to be seen at five Ks to go, and they are, and they're just doing the work. I would love it if they were racing, I was racing against them because it would be so good. They'll be doing the work for us. and then they sort of get it become a bit, I don't know, redundant at two K when when you can see they really take off. And then
Tils: Hm.
Greg: The riders, the the G C riders to the back. I see that Tate A said that they've maybe made a a little pact between the G C riders where they'll hang to the back a little more. It's definitely safer, there's no question there. And actually I ha Tils, a really good point that you brought up was you know, these these sprint stages could become breakaway stages. So so my theory is what I think's happening is everybody knows okay, I still think sprint stage is a sprint stage.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: most people know okay it's gonna be controlled enough so it's not really a chance of a breakaway. The intermediate medium stage is the breakaway. Yes. Potential finish in a and a a breakaway win and then you're mounting everything else that TED A or UAE is going to clean up. Everyone's so desperate for this small amount of stages to win that they race so hard and the break goes, everyone has got to be in it. I've got to get in that break. I've got to get in that break. So They neutralize each other and it just goes on and on and I was talking to a few riders in the bunch and they just said it just doesn't stop racing. And then all of a sudden, half the stage is gone and UAE goes, all right, we can take control now, small break, and then they take control, they put the throttle down, and today goes, well, I'm not while I'm here, I might as well clean up the stage. So they're eliminating everything, and and because they're so desperate to get into the breakaway, because it's their only real chance of a stage win.
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: They're kind of eliminating each other and the brakes not getting enough time and then UA put the throttle down and away they go. That's that's just my theory, that's what it looks like from the T V and I have had, you know, two guys tell me it just it just doesn't stop racing. What are your thoughts on that?
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Lee: No. Do you when when you're watching it, I'll come back to it. When you're watching it in the car or when you're at home watching it, do you get excited? Does the sort of skin your hair stand up on your arms and you go, Fuck, I wish I was there, I wanna be going? Do you s or do you go, God, I'm glad I'm not there, I don't miss the danger?
Greg: On nah mate, throw me in at that's what I've always said, 'cause a lot of people ask, throw me in at ten K's to go, I would love that stuff. 'Cause I just love and I plant I used to plan it so much, you know, that back in the old days with get the Google Maps 'cause I'd be the guy that would organize everything and I'd you know, back in those days I'd have a little WhatsApp group that I'd send to our sprinters and you know, that was the way we communicated. And I would be looking at the roundabouts, what side of the roundabout we're going because this one's tur curves to the right a little bit, so let's take the right hand side, you know, and then this corner here we're
Lee: Ha ha! Wow. Yeah.
Greg: We're fine, it's it's three lanes. We can go round the outside like you do in Criterion and carry more speed round there. It so yeah, but don't I don't wanna suffer for four hours over mountains to get there. Just throw to get it ten Ks to go. I love that stuff.
Lee: Yes. Ha ha You you just want to finish. Surely you must think you could still do it when you see guys like Pascal Ackerman going around. You're younger than him, aren't you?
Tils: Yeah.
Lee: Ha ha ha
Greg: well, no comment.
Lee: Yeah, yeah.
Tils: Greg, yeah, I think The challenge is as you say when they when it's sort of it's sort of like everyone's going up or I imagine what happens at night, you know, with there used to be a lot of stuff around checking you know, you'd teams would message each other or you'd speak to each other and you're trying to ascertain is Tat A gonna let us go? Like is is it a breakaway day? And so as soon as that word sort of gets out, it's a it's a breakaway day, we're just seeing it as you say over and over again that every single team wants to be in it and then even when they're in it, it doesn't It's not the right makeup, so someone keeps keeps bringing it back in. well yeah, and last night I honestly thought that Garner breakaway, we'll get on to stage 13 now. The breakaway that Garner got in, I thought this is going. Like this is, but it had too many sprint riders like teammates of the sprinters in there that just were not gonna contribute at all to to that sprint. But we saw again Tim Merlier take a hat trick last night and
Greg: Or someone's missed it.
Lee: Nah.
Tils: They must be thinking, d you know, Sidow, quick step, go, why did we ever bring Remco? We should have brought Tim earlier the two previous years.
Lee: yeah. Definitely.
Greg: Yeah, it was pretty aggressive in the final there, but again, like you said, there was just too many too many passengers, I guess you could say, that were that have enough confidence in their in their sprinter. And yeah, a lot of people I guess were saying on the the commentary was saying, sorry, on the on the T V over here was that you know, it's gonna sting take the sting out of the sprinter's legs. Well, it it doesn't take the s sting out of the sprinter's legs at all. Like they're just sitting in there like I've
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Greg: Tim Milli is having problems with his radio and didn't even know these tacks were going, you know, like he he was like so the sprinters in the leadout man, they're they're sat chill. It's not my job to do that. I've got teammates for that role. so yeah, gotta try something, but it was never gonna never gonna work. but yeah, hats off to them for trying, otherwise you just sit there in procession and and dodge the crashes, I guess. So yeah, but it i if the makeup was correct.
Tils: Mm, mm, mm.
Greg: It would be a lot harder to control if they didn't have the passengers. But again, I think what you would find would happen is once those little ripicchos were over, you would find the sprint teams actually going and having a yarn, hey mate, put your guys up. I'm putting my guys up. Let's go, we've got to catch this now. I think you'll get that because again, limited amount of sprint stages. let's not mess it up by not catching the front.
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Lee: Do you do you like with the how they've brought in the yellow and red card, do you think you would have got many yellow cards in your day?
Greg: Yeah, I do. Yeah, but I I d I was just a little bit trickier and smarter the way I did it, you know. Some of the guys I'd just shake my head. It's like I because the thing is you're in the heat of the moment, the people don't realise you're doing a hundred and ninety heart rate. And you you do everything to get to the front of the bike race. that's why if it's simplified in the l you can get in the least trouble. you know, with a leadout, being guided.
Lee: Ha. Yeah.
Greg: Staying on one side of the road, don't sprint down the middle. When you swing off from your turn, you know, like don't swing back into the middle of the Peloton. Some of the some of the calls though, I don't know what you guys think, but some of the calls for the yellow cards, like it's completely oblivious. They've no clue, they're not not intentional at all. And next thing, relegated yellow card, I'm like, how what?
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Y it's bizarre. You'd you'd think they'd know the judges or the commissaires. You'd think, you know, it's the Tour de France is a grandfather and you'd think you'd have the best guys in the business and that they would know.
Greg: So Adam Hanson's got a lot to do with that, obviously part of my leadout for for many years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've I've spoken to him and he his goal is to get like a lead out man like myself or someone on the panel that actually has sprinting knowledge, you know, and and you know, 'cause you can see things that they do that like, ooh, that was tricky, well done, you know, like that will impede the rider or something like that. you can see these things from you know, if you've been in a bunch sprint a hundred times.
Lee: Yeah, your old teammate, yeah. Yes,
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: But some of the calls, it's like that he he's this guy still doesn't know what he's done wrong, you know, some of the times when he opens the sprint or what he's still questioning it, like how, what? So I mean, yeah, I think there's some calls that but then again, it as long I think I don't know which I don't know what you guys think. As long as they're consistent, I think if it's the same for everyone, then mate, you just play by the rules, you know how it is.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Do you think Mad's gonna win the green jersey? Do you think it's his to lose now?
Tils: yeah.
Greg: I do, yes. there's not enough opportunities anymore, is there really? And Chantalise's gone. yeah, no, and I think you'll see him on the attack doing one of those mega climbs that he can I don't mean I don't know what power he's doing for ten minutes up some of those climbs. It must be horrible.
Lee: No. Yeah. Ha ha
Tils: Greg, coming back to the re relegation, it is like I think that's all we really ever want. Like, is just the consistency. And I think that's what's so hard for sprinters is that you can do one thing in one race and then do it again elsewhere and get done. And that's what's so hard, and like get away with it, or whatever it might be. It's just that I remember at the tour down under this year, I think it was Sam Wellsford, either got relegated or there was a the fine and yellow colour. Card and it was absolutely ridiculous call, and it was sort of like that's fine if that's what the new the new call is and that's going to be consistent everywhere we go. But what surprised me this tour, Hendo, is that there seems like something I've never seen before. A commissaire's gone back on their call. So we saw you know Phillipson, he was relegated and brought back, and then obviously Pederson last night as well in the intermediate sprint. I thought he
Lee: Yes.
Tils: was done and I just do not know to me Hendo this is like it's it can actually be black and white if you open up your sprint and you go completely offline you're done like it can be that simple can't it yeah
Greg: Agreed. Agreed. And yeah, like I thought Philipson was gonna get bloody the yellow card for what Mads did to him. I thought that's what they'll probably do. Philipson's gonna get a yellow card here 'cause Mads went from one side of the road to the other and nearly took over the fence in that intermediate sprint. Like, they'll get Philip but yeah, so the ruling is when the commissares, so I've did my D S licence four or five years ago and one of the one of the you know, you've got to learn all the rules and regulations obviously and
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: The ruling is, Commissaire's ruling is final. So you can appeal it, but you're you're pissing up against the wall really because it's like y it's done. But for them to actually then turn around and and go back on it, is that opened now something? I don't know, like is now can every turn every decision now be reversed?
Tils: Mm mm, mmm
Lee: Yeah. Yes.
Tils: Mm. Yeah, got they're opening themselves up. I remember I've I've been relegated once on a a sprinter actually won against Josie Talbot, which was rare for me, so I was absolutely spewing. But it was sort of like I got perspective relegated because in the intermediate sprint I absolutely moved off my line 'cause it was one of those courses where you took a really hard corner after the finish line. So moved off my line to sort of take the corner well and but then in the actual sprint hardly moved. Had heaps of people filming it could show them and they practically relegated me for the finish because of what I'd done in the intermediate sprint and you just cannot doesn't matter as soon as they say this is what it is I've never ever seen a commissaire change their mind.
Lee: Wow.
Greg: So are you sort of hinting towards maybe the Phillips and what he's done in the past, the the UCI common
Tils: Well, exactly. That's what it seemed like yesterday when he did potentially get relegated 'cause I didn't think it was that bad, but the sprint before that, it was I I was surprised he didn't get relegated in the earlier stage.
Greg: Yeah. And I think he has had some questionable sprints in the past too, so they're always looking extra hard for him. And I think maybe they don't like don't like the D S in that team as well, so
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah, I was gonna say that. Yeah.
Greg: So they're like, we hate these guys, let's let's just punish them.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Yeah, yeah. it it surprises me Hendo though to hear just how in and I think that's just why you were so good, how involved you were in I guess the planning of how you guys were gonna do the leadout. Because in my mind I thought that that all sat with the DS and the the s the the team stuff.
Greg: So that's a really yeah, so again I something to elaborate on is The DSs, like still ninety five percent of them are just ex bike riders that have n had no real specialty in in the sport and yet will line up in a hundred bunch sprints a year and not have a specialty a specialist in in the car calling them or at the team meeting. Like I know for a fact that quite a few of them get to five K's to go and say, Good luck, guys. Like no guidance
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Ha ha
Tils: Mm.
Greg: Yeah, no and I'm not joking. That is like because none of them have been at a bunch sprint. You know, it's a a very, very specific part of the sport. And it's it's one of the things that I'm sort of advocating to what you can see the teams that have it, you know, when as soon as Kittle arrived, the Rockets were in form. Actually, to be fair, Sudal have got Tom Steeles in the car and Iliokesa. Like they know what they're doing. Yeah, Renshaw with Estana, they no, sorry, Renshaw with
Lee: Wow.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Lee: Yeah. Yes, said
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yes, yes.
Greg: The cathlon. You know, they know what they're doing. It makes a difference. And what it does is they just turn up more and more regularly at the right place at the right time. You keep doing this in bunch sprinting, you will win eventually if you keep turning up. Going up the side of a mountain, we know that weeks ago, your power to weight ratio, your watts per kilogram, we know whether or not you're going to win that stage or capable of winning that stage. That's done. There's no luck, there's no positioning, there's no real skill.
Lee: it's a cathon.
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Greg: You can either push the power or you can't. Bunch sprint, is this go is this corridor gonna open? Are you are you coming from too far back? Are you have you arrived too early? Have they arrived too early and they're stopping and you there's so many intricacies in a bunch sprint that can go your way and that's why if you get the finishing, if you get the finals correct and you keep turning up and you keep turning up, like Sorin's gold for example, keep turning up, your day will come. Hundred percent your day will come.
Lee: Yeah. I guess it's a bit like AFL, you got your coach, but then you got a forward line coach, back line coach, on ball coach. They've got specialist coaches for each line and s cycling should be no yeah, it makes sense. You should have a specialist sprint coach for the flat sprint stages. Perfect sense. Yes, yep. Yeah.
Greg: Doesn't it make sense? They have T T specialists and yet we do five time trials a year.
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: And the thing is,
Tils: God, they put a lot that's such a good core hendo. The amount of money and focus all those teams put in stage one, which just seems for so many of those teams just such a distant memory. I know that it had a lot to do with GC as well and they couldn't lose time, but it's so true the amount of effort put into time travelling compared to sprints.
Lee: Yeah, Lij. Yeah.
Greg: Yep, yeah, exactly. And yeah, I mean it's it is what it is. And it's like I just think Yeah, I think it's somewhere that the sport could go for sure. because it it's you can see the teams already that are just starting to and yeah, maybe it is a crossover, maybe it's the DS that has sprinted in the past, you know, maybe it is. But the thing is, even good sprinters aren't the best at pointing a train in the right direction or or working out 'cause
Tils: Hm.
Greg: They were guided to 200 often and just opened with with two thousand watts or whatever they had back in the day. But you can tell, you can tell the teams that have had a a r a DS in the car that wasn't just you know, when I say just a bike ride, I don't mean that derogatory at all. But you know, I was never any good at anything else other than the final ten Ks of a bike race. That's where I felt comfortable. I guess it came from my track background also, you know, obviously multiple world champion on the track.
Tils: Mm. Yeah.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: I knew how to find the front of a bike race, I knew the shortest way there, I knew the way I could get there without using much energy. so it was it was I think, you know, that makes a huge difference in in the in the sprinting world.
Tils: D
Lee: Tell me tell me somet go go Matilda. Now you go. I was just
Tils: You go Lee. No, you no, you go there. do you think that the art of the pure sprinter is dead? I was cu I thought before this tour that potentially you needed to be more of an all-rounder, like a Mads Pedderson, a Phillipson, etc., who can do these sort of classics. But then seeing the likes of Tim Merlier, it's almost like you need to be that pure sprinter, because anything else could go to a breakaway or could go to a bit more of an all-rounder.
Greg: You know, I I don't think that's changed too much. I think you your sprinters they're fast, you know, and and now it's you you've got to look at I often look at it's not just about how much power you can produce. It's how what's your top speed? Like you have to be fast. Like you have to be able to go above seventy consistently, you know, and and now the the sprinting is heading towards what the track's been doing, you know, like they they're doing
Tils: Mm. Yeah. It's terrifying. Fuck.
Lee: Yeah, aye.
Greg: They they're doing the big fifty six ten sprint and it's finally starting to catch up because on the track you see them. I've got ex teammates on the track that used to tell me sprint qualifying. He goes, Hent a mate of mine, Eddie Dawkins was World Champ team sprint. He was saying sprint qualifying now is just like doing forty reps in the lead press. Whoever can lead press the most is gonna win sprint qualifying 'cause they're just on huge gears, hundred and forty, hundred and fifty inch gear, winding that thing at the top of the banking. And and road sprinting's coming that way. You see Binium Gurmai, for example, he is just crunching that that fifty six ten and it's just and they're fast, you know, they are moving it, they're getting stronger and stronger at and and there's stronger bike riders than probably what we were ten years ago, fifteen years ago. And it is it is evolving, but it's just the top end speed. Like I just keep halfing on about it. It's I don't care if you can push out, you know.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: eighteen hundred watts, I wanna see can you hit seventy three? You know, can you hit seven are you consistently above seventy K an hour on the sprint? Otherwise you're not gonna win. If you if you don't you're not going fast enough if you're not hitting seventy.
Tils: It's just crazy. I don't know how and where you even train that. That's just insane. mm.
Greg: Again it's strength, isn't It's and aerodynamics and and the rolling resistance. I mean, everything adds up. You know how technology's changed so much. It's you get you throw your leg over the bike nowadays on beach road and you're doing forty five K an hour.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah, god, yeah. Definitely. Yep. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it is ha Howride's doing fifty fifty five now. It's incredible. It's it's just gone up so much.
Greg: No, but it's true, isn't it?
Tils: You go, Lee.
Greg: How fast they are. Exactly. Yeah. It's it's a ma I mean, I even know it here just training at home when I'm just put some nice tires on and some nice clothes or whatever, you know. Just like unbelievable. I'm like there's a climb here, Els Angels, like I went two minutes quicker up there than what I did as a professional. Just 'cause the roads are sealed fast. I'm on a light bike that's actually, you know, close to close to seven kilos as opposed to the old Ridley back in the day, it might have been eight, eight and a bit, you know. So yeah, it's just mad.
Lee: Yeah. Wow. Yep. Yah guy. Yeah.
Tils: Ha ha ha.
Lee: Every everything has gone fast. There was a guy on Hellride last week who's just come back into it, who's one of the good guys back in the day, and I saw him on Wednesday and he says, I can't believe how fast things are. He goes, I got my quickest ever Hellride time on Saturday, it's the middle of July, and he'd been doing it for years back in the day and first run back and broken all his records because things are so much faster now.
Greg: They really are. They really, really are. And until you get on a tune bike, you know, like so we call the optimized. Once until you get on and you're fully optimized, you know, clothing, position, tires, chain, bike, until you get on one and feel it. It's like it's like cheating. Like last year I was testing these tires for EF education, which is pretty cool because Ben Healy went on to ride these tires in the tour and win the stage. And
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: Andreas Clare was an old teammate of mine back in T Mobile and he he's the wheel and tire expert on on EF and he rang me, he said, Hey Hindi, we've got these tires, we want to run them. We just need to f we just need to find out how much grip they've got in and out of in and out of damp corners because we're a bit nervous of them. okay, I'll try But mate, honestly, enough grip.
Tils: that
Lee: huh. Test crush dummy, test crush dummy. Yeah, yeah.
Greg: Exactly mate. And I put my hand up, yeah, right But anyway, no,
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: enough grip and yeah, the feedback I gave I said I rang him that next day. I said, mate, these are like cheating. It's like they're so fast and and it was Yeah, just fast tires. Absolutely, enough grip. And and obviously he said, Look, we're only gonna use them in the dry. We just wanted to see what your thoughts were on a on a Apache descent. And I don't don't get me wrong, I didn't hammer I didn't hammer the descent but I I didn't feel anything.
Tils: Hm.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Greg: And he goes, that's perfect, thanks very much. And they they so what they did, they optimized my bike. They put the chain on, they put the bearings on, they they waxed it, they and they said, Just go and try this out. And I thought, wow. This is fun.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, wow. Tell me something, in your opinion, is Pod the goat?
Greg: Yeah. Yeah, I r I truly believe that. And I hope I hope he just keeps winning. Like all these you know, these guys saying, like it's imagine Is it Duplantis, the high jumper? nah, just sit at a couple of centimetres lower today, I'm not gonna win. Can you imagine he's not gonna do that? Or not turning up, you know, not it's like it's all the top athletes in the world, the top sprinter, he's not gonna not win it.
Lee: Yep. I agree. Yep. So do I. Yeah, so do I. yeah. Nah. Nah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: If he can. I hope he just keeps flogging and it's like, Lift your game. 'Cause the thing is, again, you know where the level is. It's not it's not hidden, it's not rocket science. You know, hey guys, this is how many watts per kilogram you've got to be doing for ten, fifteen, twenty minutes. You it's there. It's not no guesswork.
Lee: No. Yeah, so do I.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yep. Yep.
Tils: Hendo on that same question, do you do do you think that the record is five Tour de Frances or seven?
Greg: How is he so fast though? How is he so fast? Like
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: It's Steven, isn't
Lee: Ha ha ha.
Greg: What is the record?
Tils: Well it depends. It depends whether you count whether you count there's only been a lot of discussion this last week, Endo, on do you c are we counting Lance or are we counting like Merckx and Hanoi and those guys? Are they the five or is it Lance's seven?
Lee: no, 'cause they're saying that's yeah.
Greg: 'Cause the guys that have had five before were weren't taking drugs.
Tils: Ha ha ha.
Lee: Yeah, exact yeah, Merck's went pods three times. Everyone f likes to forget conveniently forget that. So yeah.
Tils: Dude.
Greg: I I don't know I mean I think Pog is is the better athlete because I mean back in the day Merck's he was racing farmers. You know, they'd just turn up with their their woolly socks on and a possum skin a possum skin bloody chamois and away they'd go.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Pogs against specialists. Nowadays you got classic specialists and he's beating the specialists. Unbelievable.
Greg: Correct. Correct, correct. So I I think he's the to answer your question, I in my opinion, he is the goat. Like how does he even compete in those in in Roubaix and like it's even to win Milan San Remo, like
Lee: Yeah, I agree. No. Yes.
Greg: It's incredible. And then you see I yes, I'm with you. It's like, mate, we're alive in this area. Like I've heard of Mercs and I've I've heard you know, everyone waffles on about it and I'd never saw any of it, you know. And I guess of course a lot of it is to do with how accessible everything is now on the internet, you know, or streaming or or whatever, you know, social media. We never saw that without for Mercs. But you know, and I'm sure the guys that were racing Mercs at the time were like, How the hell do you beat this guy? He's just a freak.
Tils: Mm, mm, mm.
Lee: We're just so lucky to be witnessing it. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Tils: Yeah, I say the same thing.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: But I think if you just because the sport's evolved so much, there's so many specialists in every category, every department, and he's you know, he's cleaning them up basically, isn't he? He's like Yeah, so I think that's interesting. What do you think? Is it five or seven? What's your what's your take?
Lee: Yes. Yeah.
Tils: Mm, mm. I just You know, I like the the hard one with it, like I think they all had their you know, they all got at one point, I think they were done for using. I think what makes for me Lance so much worse is he was such an instigator. Like I think that whole drug era went for so much longer because he was just the king of it. Like he, you know, he worked so hard and just ended anyone who tried to speak out about it. He was an enormous bully. He was the you know, he was the head of the CFMAU. He was like the you know, you don't you you've gotta punish the guy who organized the guy that threw the firebom into the into the shop more than the guy that threw it. Like it was, you know, I just think he ruined lives. You know, he ruined lives. Like he yeah.
Lee: Ha. Yeah. I still think it's seven though. Yeah, he did, he's a b prick. But I s it's still seven though. Like I know it's not but it is. Like it's still seven. Like you I that's my opinion. Like I I you know
Tils: Mm.
Greg: No, that's a good point, Tills. I like that's a good way of looking at it. I and like Lee, I'm with you, I totally agree. I think it's seven, but it's not, but it is. But that's a really good perspective that you put on it, Tills. It's like, yeah, no, you do have to punish the guy that threw that organised the guy to throw the the firebomb. I I like that.
Tils: Yeah. Mm, yeah.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Tils: Yeah. I think
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: and I think that that is has been lost quite a bit. And I'm I'm I'm I you know, I if I met Lance I would be totally like, Yeah, amazing, you know, that's there's Lance and but but I think and he has had, you know, some repentance, but also he hasn't. He was never punished. He never and so if his punishment is that he can mate he was a he's a multi millionaire. He is a multimillionaire. He made sure that they couldn't take any of his money and instead he invested it into Uber.
Lee: All struck. Starstruck. he was punished He financially Yeah, but he was punished he I know, but he went on Oprah, he was
Tils: please. Oprah, try bloody lee sales on ABC.
Lee: publicly shamed. It was it was a fair punishment. Like I do think he Yeah, but still it was embarrassing. Yeah, I know, but it was still a a downfall for him for him as as much. Like he did like he did lose a lot like he's got his swagger back. yeah. But then s but then so sh then so should have a lot of others, you know what I mean? So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: He should have been in jail. He should have been in jail. He didn't do a single night. You know, like that's the that's that's that's the thing with Lance. Yeah.
Greg: It's it's amazing, isn't it? Like a topic like Lance can divide you can divide like L we're still talking Lance though, aren't we? You know, it's amazing that we're still talking about And it's dividing opinions.
Tils: Mm. Yeah, but like I think
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: It was incredible. Like I think, you know, we should get Rupert Guinness on it at some point. But like speaking to the journalists in that era with Lance, if you asked because he was the biggest name, and if then if you even indicated that you thought that he used drugs, he would blacklist you. You he you would ask a question and he would be silent. He wouldn't even ans so you're going there with a publication and you can't even get a quote or be even near him because he's blacklisted you because you indicate
Lee: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: Potentially, and then he was at the end of the day. After all of this, he actually was. and you know, and I'm probably just a just a girl looking at who you know. I loved Lance, and that's probably why I am you know more hurt by it potentially as well. May have got cut coloured glasses on it, but yeah, that's yeah, the way he acted, and I think that's the other thing, Hendo, is why Poggy is so loved, is from the outside, he's the most.
Lee: Yeah, I know.
Greg: Yeah.
Lee: Nah, I I love Doric.
Tils: wonderful ambassador for our sport. He he could be an arsehole. He could be, you know, see you next Tuesday and just go out there and just give no one any time
Lee: Yeah. Nah he's not
Tils: seems to love what he is doing is amazing.
Lee: And you saw you saw how he was with Tim Merle Tim Merlier's kid after the stage. Like I'm just like, how can anyone boo him or dislike him? Why not he's just such a lovely human.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Greg: And he just looks like he loves racing his bike. That's the cool thing. You know, it's it's not a chore to him. Like I've got a mate who lives in in Nice and he just bought the new Y1RS and he is super proud of it and he stopped at the coffee shop and next thing bling and and pogachow roll in, but he just goes, Pog, he doesn't just roll in, he comes in, jumps the bloody curb on his front brake, up on his front off on his front wheel, comes in, stops.
Lee: Yes, yes. Yeah.
Tils: Hehehehehe
Lee: Ha ha ha.
Greg: beside his bike, here he is in his new Y one R S and he goes, nice bike, mate. And and he just goes, I I felt so embarrass I had to leave, he goes, I had to leave because here I am in my blinged out buddy Y one R S and here's Pog just turns up on one wheel. He's like felt so embarrassed and I'm like, nah man, he would have loved that. Yeah. Yeah, that so that was pretty cool stuff.
Lee: so good.
Tils: Hahaha
Lee: Nice.
Tils: Yeah.
Lee: No, that's cool. Yeah, exactly.
Tils: Hmm Hendo was there did you ever experience you're on some of the biggest teams. Did you have experience? booing with with any your GC writers or What do you think of the the booing not I don't think he's getting it a lot But it has been a topic this week that are pog going off the front his dying to get a lot of booze from the French fans
Greg: Isn't that just French?
Lee: Yeah, exactly.
Tils: Lee, we see the light in the AFL.
Greg: you do? Okay, I thought it just a French thing.
Lee: yeah, but that's 'cause they've done they've done something dirty, like they've ki hit someone behind play or they've done something said something like Pog said nothing. All he's done is win. That's not his fault.
Tils: Mmm.
Greg: I I just thought it was a French thing, the booing A. I just honestly and Yeah. Wha what do they want? I just can't I mean again, it's just beyond me. I don't so I don't get involved in that sort of thing, you know. It's like that discussion, I get it. He's getting booed or whatever. What do you want me to do? You know? Do you want me to slow down and let a Frenchman win? I I don't I don't get so it's just again, it's beyond my
Tils: Yeah. Hahaha
Lee: Yeah, exactly.
Tils: Hmm.
Lee: Yeah, exactly.
Tils: No one else can pass go
Lee: No gifts, no gifts.
Greg: It's n it's beyond my capacity to think. Like why would you boo? Like just just be in awe and and and and applaud and and be happy. But I honestly I just think it's a French like it's and it's I don't think it's as derogatory. That's what I'm getting at, a French thing. I don't think it's as derogatory as what it is that the Kiwi or an Aussie were bowing someone in the crowd. I think it's a different culture. It's not it's not necessarily the billing that we think. I think you can Wikipedia that you can look that up on Groc.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mmm.
Lee: Yes.
Tils: Mmm. Yeah.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: Yeah. Hendo
Greg: I reckon there's a I reckon I've read that somewhere, that th there's a different meaning to the bullet. We need to get the AI in on and and weigh in
Tils: yeah a bit of AI I will Hendo we saw one of the first sort of real nasty crashes last night did you you must have had some bad crashes in your time how do you experience that and then go and put yourself back in that situation the next day
Lee: Cock. Yeah.
Greg: yeah, no, it's it's one of those things and you do have to work on it a lot actually. you come become a little bit gun shy. because as you know in a bunchman if you touch your brakes, you're gonna lose three or four Ks an hour and then to get that back, you know, you just can't in the in the final of a bunch, you just can't touch your brakes. And then of course when you've had a big off. generally it's a situation where let's say
Tils: Hmm. Yeah.
Greg: If it was a a wheel chopped you in front or or something that you you've got in the mix and it should have opened or you probably shouldn't have crashed, that's when you can become a bit gun shot because you're not sure how it happened. A bunch sprint like there where the first guy went down and then there's top the the domino effect, it's not as scary. Like you just know and you're on the anchors and you're you've just sent your ass over the back wheel as much as possible, trying to scrub off as much speed if you've got time. And
Tils: Mm-mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: It's that's not what scares you, those crashes. It's the ones where all of a sudden next thing you're still hanging on to your handlebars and and you're up like this going, They're the ones that scare you. Like, how the how did that happen? And then you're a bit gun shy and yeah, it does t it just takes time, it really does. And it can take a while.
Tils: Hmm
Greg: I had it on the track actually, situation where it was it was a filthy crash and I was just I was actually a bit gun shy Yeah, I was a bit gun shy on the track there for a while. I I couldn't I had to work out how to get get over it.
Tils: fuck, that's bad. the track ones man, when they burn you, when they burn you.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm-mm.
Lee: I see your old teammate finally retired at I think he's eighty six years old now. Froom finally retired and made it official the other week. Finally No, don't say he's coming back.
Greg: Hey but I I I read somet I read something where
Tils: hahahaha
Greg: I read they got he had an interview and goes they asked him, so when did you finally decide about your retirement? And he goes, W when I signed five years ago with Israel start up nation.
Tils: hahahaha
Greg: I thought that was classic quote. It already decided
Lee: boom wow Why not? Yeah, exactly. If they're gonna give it to him, take it.
Greg: just take the five take the five years and then retire.
Tils: Mmm.
Greg: Nice retirement plan.
Lee: Yeah, definitely. Five years noti five years he's he's given five years notice.
Greg: though that was hilarious. Yeah, exactly. god. That was funny.
Tils: Hahaha Well Hendo, we're in for an entertaining finish to our tonight's stage later today for you in Europe. It's all flat except for a casual two and a half, almost two and a half thousand meters that comes within 35 kilometers, which is 50 K from the finish because the finish is all downhill. Will it be a Tom Pidcock descending special? Essentially there's just really only two hills.
Lee: yeah.
Tils: which come after 150 kilometres of mostly flat roads and then a big descent to the finish. Will it be breakaway, GC, can mads get over?
Lee: Mm.
Greg: i if I looked at this on paper when I was racing, it's it's got Richard Carapaz, Tom Pidcock written all over it, hasn't it? breakaway, let go. Nice day. The G C boys can do what they want, ten minutes behind. and have you know, they can still take some G C time. you know, Pogachar can still take some more time, but not win the stage. But I think it's possible that again
Lee: yep. Yep.
Greg: Everyone knows it's a breakaway. Everyone races and races and races and they're racing at fifty-five Ks an hour. So next thing hundred Ks is done of the stage. a little break finally goes and then the team starts riding, they don't get enough time. I just can see that that seems to play out all the time. So I wouldn't be surprised if then the brakes neutralize each other and then UAE put the throttle down and and Pog wants to take some more time on his GC rivals.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: And you know, a by product of that is he catches the front, descends to victory. I can see that happening. But what I would love to see is yeah, your pitcocks, y your carapaz getting away in the breakaway and and 'cause that climb that's a very, very hard climb. I don't think Mads Mads shouldn't get over that. Yeah. I don't know, what do you think?
Tils: Mmm. Yeah. to an almost two and a half thousand meters. I think this tour is just so ridiculous to pick, but this is one of the hardest ones to pick a winner, but surely, surely this has to be one of those riders like Vácek, Simmonds, Carapes, what can Pitcox, Pitcox showing a lot better form, what can Plappy do on the descent though? Not sure.
Lee: Flap?
Greg: My pay.
Lee: Flat P. No, you'll be okay. Now you'll be fine.
Greg: yeah. You'll be alright. Just stay away from the white shit as as Pidcock says.
Lee: Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, I saw that.
Tils: It was a shame to see Chris Hamilton come down in all of that.
Greg: I I had a question there.
Lee: Yes. What's a what was your
Greg: That's my question.
Lee: question?
Tils: Was it a J.K.O.
Greg: No, it's gone. It's gone. I had a question I'd forgotten.
Tils: One, let me quickly get your thoughts on this then for both of you being a Jayco fans. Caleb Ewan had some strong comments this week on SBS around that doesn't seem like on Jayco writers are helping one another. I thought, what's the Swiss writers name? Mauro Schmidt and Plappy work pretty, yeah, pretty well together, but it is probably a little bit hard. The sprinter's left on his own. Harper sort of seems to be trying to
Lee: Mario Smith.
Tils: make breaks even though, I mean sorry, Ben O'Connor, Ben O'Connor seems to be trying to make breaks even though Tadde has said he wants to win the stage. Yeah, your thoughts on how they're going Hendo?
Lee: No Harper's Harper's No, whoa, whoa, whoa, Harper's not in that team. Ben O'Connor.
Greg: Yeah, it looks maybe it's they haven't got the right combination of riders to help each other. You know, you've got a sprinter, you need someone that's willing to risk I guess it's almost it is hard also if you're gonna risk a bunch final for someone who's probably gonna run a top ten, you don't quite ride through the brick wall for
Tils: Yeah. Hmm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: You know, you kind of you tap the brakes here and shit, it's a bit good luck mate, where you go. Whereas, you know, if you go if I get him inside a kilometer on Millier's wheel, I'll fight for that. If he gets there, mate, he's got a chance. So it's a bit of a difference, I think that's probably t to play. And then Yeah, I I don't know, I I to be honest, I haven't been paying a lot of attention.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: Mmm.
Greg: to Jaco. maybe 'cause they are quite invisible. I have seen Bling and I feel a bit sorry for Bling 'cause he's yeah, he's such a good bike rider. He loves racing. He loves winning. but yeah he just needs more time to come back I think. How old is Bling now actually?
Tils: Mmm.
Lee: Meh Yeah.
Tils: yeah 35 I've got it here yeah he's uh 35 yeah same as Durbridge actually yeah same as Durbo so yeah crazy that they're the same age actually with Durbo's being being last last tour
Lee: I don't know how I thirty five.
Greg: It's getting long on the tooth. So I was I was forty when
Lee: Wow.
Greg: I did my last Tour de France. I don't think there's many people at forty doing the Tour de France anymore. I don't think that'll happen.
Lee: wow.
Tils: Well, that's it. Yeah, yeah, oh, you and Garen Thomas. 39, I think. He retired at 39, I think it was. yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's amazing. Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. Too many altitude camps.
Lee: Nye. yeah.
Greg: Did he do it as forty? Yeah.
Lee: Wow.
Greg: I don't think a lot of people do. I just think
Lee: No.
Greg: Just because how focused they are now, you know, from a young age, chasing yeah, altitude camps, chasing numbers, looking at their power meters. I was I I was DS and coach here of the U twenty three EF team. And I was starting to organise these rides, you know, like these group rides. 'Cause we had six of the kids in town. You know, I can again teach them some things, how to descend, how to You know, save some energy when we do some swap offs. And one of the cool things we did the sprint drills, you know, like I I taught them just because you're not a sprinter when you come in in a a small group, I taught them how to win from a small group, you know, how to accelerate control from the front, use your gears, you become you can't it's hard to pass an accelerating mass. so I I showed them ha just all these little tricks I could show them. But do you think I could get them out every on a regular to bloody do this group ride? Like no, look I've got da da da da da XYZ on zone three, zone two and a bit of zone f I've got this, this and like and they just want to go out on their own and chase chase the power meter. And I'm like, I guess you know, and we we'd have our conference call and our discussion and I said, like it's just how it is. It's like I really struggle. I'll I'll tee up the meeting, you know, on teams and and get the group right. We're meeting at nine here, da da da and the apology comes in, the apology comes in. The closer we get to the right the ap next thing
Tils: Yeah. Mmm... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lee: that's like here.
Greg: There's two of us going out for a ride.
Lee: Soft.
Tils: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you've already heard it from Paul Sexus though. Like he's already said, I remember earlier this year, even before the spring, he'd been on two altitude camps.
Greg: But that's gotta take a mental toll, don't you think? Like I
Lee: My Yep. Yeah.
Tils: one in December and then one in March. Like it's just, and he's 19. And so you know that these guys aren't going to see probably past their thirties surely. That, and he was saying then I just haven't seen my girlfriend. Yeah. So, but I just haven't, you know, I haven't, haven't seen my girlfriend and that's, that's the challenge I think for them is just sucking that enjoyment out of it. And I think that's where today is so good because we've already seen Paul sexist. was a little bit
Greg: Wow. In the sport.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: annoyed at the start of the tour. He was telling people to be quiet and getting just a bit frustrated where I think Tade is so good at and that's probably because he's just always winning. It's easy to be great when you're winning and in a good mood but he always brings a certain aura of enjoyment to it and I think I loved an interview. It was a great question that TNT asked Tade when Del Toro had lost all that time in the last GC stage and they asked Tade what would you say to del Toro and he said just sit, you know, take a step back and enjoy it. Look where you are. It's okay. Like just, you know, like enjoy the process, enjoy the moment. And I just thought, wow, like to have that as your mentor in your team. Like I think, you know, it's such a great outlook. That's what you want to say to any young athlete.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, so good.
Greg: Yeah, that's cool, isn't it? That's really cool to say hear that. Yeah, take a look around, mate. Look where you are. Look look at the crowds you're riding to. Look where you are right now. You're in a you know, it's it's it's insanity. Yeah. This is a lot of suffering, a lot of a lot of you know, it's a lot of work to get there, a lot of sacrifice to get there. But have a look around and enjoy try and enjoy it, you know.
Lee: And sign.
Tils: Mm-mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: well Hendo, just last question. Thanks. We've been doing a couple of coaching segments. Thanks to join cycling, but as you are a sprint coach or you know, you're a to everyone, but your profession, I would love to know what would be like a key session that sprinters would do with you. Like what, if you had to get fast, what is like your go-to session?
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: So the it's one of the most underrated things for sprinting is actually a standing start. from from a slow speed and and not it doesn't have to be a massive gear, you know, middle of the block, but slow right down because then what you actually do is you employ a whole range of cadence. So you go from your thirty, forty, fifty, six up to race cadence, up to a hundred and twenty RPM and you repeat that. So you get the you get the power and the torque that's needed for sprint training. But you also get a lot of people don't have coordination, and a lot of people don't understand, but there's so much coordination involved in being able to be out of your saddle sprinting tidily and fast arrow at 120 RPM. And if you can become efficient, it's really good. That would be my my number one training. But there's probably three I use. the other one is again just a technique one, it's just high cadence stuff out of the seat, small gear.
Tils: Yeah. Mmm.
Greg: So it does it's not about power. Again, it's this coordination because it's so important. And so you watch a lot of people when they sprint, they just look awkward on their bike out of the seat. But it's getting that coordination, Lee. That's all you need, mate, is just
Lee: Yeah, god, I look horrible.
Tils: Hahaha
Lee: Yeah, I know. I d it's funny you say that because Jez Hunt, who was helping me for Melbourne Warnable last year, he was I I had to do those things. The standing start sprint and it was all he said, make it coordinated look concentrate on your form. Exactly what you've just said. That's what he was getting me to do. Then he saw a video of me doing it and just went, shit. So it wasn't pretty. Yeah, it wasn't pretty, Greg.
Tils: Hahaha
Greg: 'Cause it goes through the whole range of cadence. And the other thing we do for top speed is we find a downhill, a nice big downhill where you'll get a free leadout and into an uphill. So you'd you'd it's a reverse cadence thing. So you come in at maybe a hundred and twenty five and then you get to the top and you're just grunting to the top. So that'll be my three key sprint drills.
Lee: Yep, yep. Yep. Yes, yes. Yes, yep.
Tils: Mm-mm. Ugh.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Yeah, they're fantastic. I'm a bit sad you said that first one Hendo, because I swear to God those pricks when I go out with them on North Road or something, pretty sure they do that first session at every red light. So when we take off from the red light, I seem to be going like 1500 watts.
Lee: Wow. yeah, they t fuck. Why do I have to do a thousand what's I
Greg: Yes, yes.
Lee: say, why do I have to do a thousand what's off to light your fuckheads?
Greg: Yeah.
Tils: sorry. Imagine me. my God, it's terrible. Anyway.
Lee: I'm always complaining. Yeah, I know. But yeah, but you've got talent. I don't have talent. I'm a bum. God.
Tils: All right, we'll leave it with you just calling everyone the F word. Hendo, thank you so much for your time. It was fantastic to get your insight. yeah, I got it's crazy that you're not like, I'd love to see I know you don't want to be DS, you don't want to be driving around France for over three weeks, but man, you are a talent in what you could do with some of these teams. So yeah, it's great to get your analysis.
Greg: brilliant.
Lee: Ha ha Yeah, definitely, mate. Thank you.
Greg: Thanks very much. I could have chatted here all day actually. I quite I really I really enjoyed it. Thanks. Thanks for having me back on. I I really do. And and it it's it's nice talking to people that actually know some stuff, you know, as well and they can see it and bring other s perspectives too. And it gets me thinking, it's like, Wow, that's pretty clever actually. So thanks again guys, and any time I'd love to come back.
Tils: Yeah.
Lee: Yeah. No, thank you. Pleasure. Yep. Yeah, always, mate, always.
Tils: Yeah, no, we love having you. love having you. There's a lot more we could have spoken about how the Kiwis going, how's Aaron Gate goes on, but Hendo, we'll leave it at the hour. Thanks so much. And we'll speak to you soon. A big thank you to Join Cycling. Be sure to check out the links below and of course, Black Sheep Cycling. We will see you soon. Katerna, have a good weekend. Good luck on Saturday and I'll see you later. Thanks, Hendo. Bye for now.
Greg: Yeah.
Lee: I'll see ya later. Yeah, hellride tomorrow. See ya.
Lee: I'm very good. I thought you're gonna say when you were saying fifty kilometres an hour you thought you're gonna talk about North Road long on Wednesday, 'cause that was a very quick morning, but no it was a tour de France. I'm good, it's good to be back.
Tils: Ha ha ha ha. well before we get to our special guest, do you wanna defend yourself? Marco was slating you on Monday that you were dropped on the beach road bash.
Lee: Look, even champions have bad days. And yeah, I did get dropped twice, but now thanks to Join Cycling, I've signed up. It's very easy to sign up and it automatically syncs across to your Zwift account and your Strava and all that stuff. So I will be on the comeback to turn that around thanks to Join Cycling.
Tils: Well, it was a good transition. I was about to say I know just what you need. but joint cycling have over eight hundred cycling workouts. Eight hundred. and that's why we love them. But also a lot of us at the moment are running our and cycling and they do both. I know a few people who use the runner app, I'd get rid of that. and just check out join. You put in your running goal, put in your cycling goal, type in your availability and join write you the entire program. you can click the link in our show notes, join Sign up for 30 days free to check it out. There's no lock-in, you just get to have a go of it, and it's really impressive. Well, speaking of coaching, our special guest today returns to the Domestiques. He is a gold medalist on the track. He competed and completed, I think, eleven grand tours over his career with stage victory at the Vuelta Espana. However, he is best known for being one of the best leadout men in the Peloton riding for HTC, Team Sky, and Lotto, with Andre Gripel crediting most of his wins to the great man. It is Kiwi Greg Henderson. Welcome back, Endo.
Greg: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Tils: Now Hendo before we get into the tour, and I can't wait to break down what you think of all the sprints, tell us about yeah, you're over in Europe again this year, but you've got a new role this year. What's what's happening for you?
Greg: Yeah, I'm I'm predominantly coaching, obviously. I it's it's something I really enjoy. looking after any everything from world tour riders, track riders, gravel riders, all ages and capabilities. It's it's something it's really it's really passionate to me actually 'cause I I get a real kick from it, seeing them achieve.
Lee: Mm.
Greg: And you know, it goes it goes really nicely with the studies that I did. Obviously when I finish my career, I finish off my exercise science degree and it's it's just really a passion of mine. So I've really moved my focus towards that this season and I've been really, really enjoying it.
Lee: You've certainly turned around Chris McKay. I've noticed he've him gone from this just punt and now he's flying into bunches. So you've certainly turned him around. He he loves you coaching him. He's doing a you've done a great job with him. He's a great guy.
Tils: and
Greg: thank you. No, he he's a really cool like I have having a great time. And he he loved I think he just loves the the structure of a program, you know, like it's just really what to do each day. You know, you can get carried away on the bunch rides as you know, Lee, and sometimes you do need a bit of structure, you know, and you know and I I don't don't get me wrong, there's so much benefit on a a a really fast, really fun bunch ride and you've got to keep training fun, but
Lee: Yeah. He does. Yes. Yep. Yes, yes. Yes, very true. No.
Greg: Mix it and get him out there and doing the stuff that he's missing and yeah, he's really coming along nicely and he's enjoying it, which is the main thing.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Tils: Hendo, are you doing much in the sprinting? you've you've obviously done a lot of coaching in sprinting with the professional teams. Are you doing much of that anymore?
Greg: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing a little bit. looking after some riders here in Girona. Noah Hobbs, for example, was he rides for EF actually and but I'm in in constant contact with him and then obviously with the the team Q thirty six we're doing a bit of work. but yeah it's it's a a step back a little bit actually from time on the road. yeah, just
Tils: Yeah. Yeah.
Greg: For me it was just too much. and I'm just really enjoying what I'm doing now.
Tils: Yeah, fantastic. Well, you were one of the first to come to mind that we wanted to have you on after two sprint stages back to back and with your knowledge and expertise, not just as a leadout rider, but I think you you've always got such a good viewpoint. I always find that leadout riders actually have the best analysis of sprints. when it comes to the the raw sprinters, they get to just do the last sort of hundred meters, but the navigating and what the leadouts do, you know, it's really those riders. Deliver the riders to the front, unless you're sort of Tim Merlier who seems to be able to do it, do it on his own. But I feel like I can watch sprint stages like 20 times. You pick one rider and you just re-watch the last kilometer. You pick another rider and re-watch it again and again, and it it's just such an art where a hundred different things need to go your way to pull it off. But stage twelve, or actually before we get into stage twelve. And what's what's your viewpoint of the how the sprints have been overall so far at Latour?
Greg: Well, actually unfortunately they've become a bit predictable, haven't they? you've got two guys on a level. It's a bit like when Cavendish and and Gripal were in the Paloton. You know they had to get it pretty wrong for one of them not to win. And it seems that's the way this year as well with with COI Millierre. I like their different approaches. I don't agree with everything that they do.
Lee: Mm. Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: You know, I'd have some serious conversations, I guess. but yeah, it's it's incredible how quick that Millier is, but questionable in his positioning. and you can just tell when the way the way Corey is sprinting and where he's coming from, how he's been delivered. You can tell that Mark Renshaw's in the background in his ear 'cause Mark Grinshaw has the same the same ethos as I do around bunch sprinting, you know, and it very rarely gets it wrong.
Lee: Well
Tils: Yeah. Yeah. and so the one surprise though in saying that, Hendo was on stage twelve, Soren Warrenchgold from UNO X taking the win, the surprise win, I think in a chaotic sprint, U UNOX are having an incredible tour so far, particularly when there's been just such limited opportunities to do anything. but should Coy have won that stage and should Pedderson have been relegated in that stage?
Greg: firstly yes, I think Cory will be kicking himself. and have a fair bit of explaining to do on the bus to the boys. I've no clue why he left his leadout man. you know, I know what he was thinking, it's too early. I've g he's he's open too early, but there's a simple way around that. You you stay on the barrier so that you can only see s they're only gonna come on the left hand side of you. And you lay off the wheel. You lay off your leadout man.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: Gripal's done it to me multiple times. I've had to go 'cause I felt the pause. I've had to open early. And Gripel knows sit off one, even two lengths. And then as soon as you feel them, bang, you run at the wheel. So he's getting a drive into the slipstream. No one would have come close. And he actually had two opportunities because then Sorange Gold went bang down the inside of the barriers. And he could have chased that wheel all the way to the line and passed it as well. but he let that go as well. I mean, I just couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Greg: at three hundred metres he's freewheeling looking for someone to fill the gap. I was like, mate, you're in a Tour de France bunch print. Go. So that was yeah, I mean, but then I was who was I speaking to? Anyway, I was speaking to someone I I just keep forgetting that they're actually young kids, you know, like sure I may have done a hundred, two hundred bunch sprints and and been in that scenario multiple times, but he's still a young kid, you know. Yes he's the fastest in the one of the fastest in the world.
Lee: Mm.
Tils: Yeah. Mm, mm.
Greg: And he's winning, but it doesn't mean he's been in that scenario ten times to correct it, you know. They're just they're so young still. So th they actually unfortunately are still learning and making mistakes on the bigger stage, you know, at the Tour de France.
Tils: Mm. Do you find We've talked we talked about this a little bit with Chris Hamilton on Monday's pod, Greg, when I was observing how much the G C teams have stepped out of being a part of the last, you know, ten K pretty much at all, in the sprints and how much one thing I I didn't bring up though was like how much that is causing the sprint teams to do so much effort. Like I think one thing that's been notable from this tour is except for potentially Jesper Phillips and De Kounik, there's been really no proper leadouts or teams that are able to get together because there's just you know, they're sort of on their hands and knees it seems in that that last kilometer. And also then that the sprint stages seem to be turning into potential breakaway stages because it's been so hard to get in the break if Tate can win the stage.
Greg: A couple of things to unpack there actually. Yeah, interesting interesting type. I can tell you a funny story first. so you mentioned, you know, the G C teams sort of setting to the back a little bit now, which is which is great, for them for sure. Because an example was I think it what year did Kidell win the tour? I don't know.
Lee: Yeah, I dunno. Not too sure.
Greg: Anyway, we were
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: coming into a bunch sprint and the same situation. He's with BMC, he's pinned on the right. I'm holding position because we're coming up, you know, we're out just outside the 3K. He doesn't want to be there. But but he's beside me. I'm with banging handlebars and I'm just like, this is crazy that I'm having to shift the yellow jersey right now and at three nearly three K's to go. And I'm like, Cadell, I don't I don't want to do this, mate, but I'm gonna have to move you because I need to be there.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Wow.
Greg: And I'm like, well f well move please. That's what I said, exactly my words. Well move please. And yeah, nothing nothing untoward happened, but I was just thinking, you know, how crazy it was that I I was gonna have to shift the yellow jersey of Natour de France because of this stupid rule that they have to be up there to protect their so I'm really happy to to see it change. going back to
Lee: Ha ha ha ha!
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Mm.
Greg: The sprint teams on their hands and knees. Yeah, look, I just think the way I feel like the sprint trains are in like a circle. Like it's going in it's like bell bottoms, isn't it? They come back into fashion and then they go back out and they come back. So I just don't think the teams have fully dedicated it that full structure of the leadout because, you know, I've said before, what's the easiest thing to do? Easiest thing is to be seen on TV and be at the front at five K's to go. So you have a man for that.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: And then what's the hardest thing to do is be together at two Ks to go when it's actually time to go. And you need you need four riders for that minimum. And teams just haven't haven't put four riders together. If you had four riders that knew start line, finish line, there they would make the two K and they would get to the finish line. No problem. It's just I don't feel that they have teams that dedicated that many riders. You I I think you can see Astana have tried, but I don't know who's doing their
Tils: Hm.
Greg: their sprint pro tactics, but they arrive way, way too early. And it's the same at Raw. It's easy to be seen at five Ks to go, and they are, and they're just doing the work. I would love it if they were racing, I was racing against them because it would be so good. They'll be doing the work for us. and then they sort of get it become a bit, I don't know, redundant at two K when when you can see they really take off. And then
Tils: Hm.
Greg: The riders, the the G C riders to the back. I see that Tate A said that they've maybe made a a little pact between the G C riders where they'll hang to the back a little more. It's definitely safer, there's no question there. And actually I ha Tils, a really good point that you brought up was you know, these these sprint stages could become breakaway stages. So so my theory is what I think's happening is everybody knows okay, I still think sprint stage is a sprint stage.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: most people know okay it's gonna be controlled enough so it's not really a chance of a breakaway. The intermediate medium stage is the breakaway. Yes. Potential finish in a and a a breakaway win and then you're mounting everything else that TED A or UAE is going to clean up. Everyone's so desperate for this small amount of stages to win that they race so hard and the break goes, everyone has got to be in it. I've got to get in that break. I've got to get in that break. So They neutralize each other and it just goes on and on and I was talking to a few riders in the bunch and they just said it just doesn't stop racing. And then all of a sudden, half the stage is gone and UAE goes, all right, we can take control now, small break, and then they take control, they put the throttle down, and today goes, well, I'm not while I'm here, I might as well clean up the stage. So they're eliminating everything, and and because they're so desperate to get into the breakaway, because it's their only real chance of a stage win.
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: They're kind of eliminating each other and the brakes not getting enough time and then UA put the throttle down and away they go. That's that's just my theory, that's what it looks like from the T V and I have had, you know, two guys tell me it just it just doesn't stop racing. What are your thoughts on that?
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Lee: No. Do you when when you're watching it, I'll come back to it. When you're watching it in the car or when you're at home watching it, do you get excited? Does the sort of skin your hair stand up on your arms and you go, Fuck, I wish I was there, I wanna be going? Do you s or do you go, God, I'm glad I'm not there, I don't miss the danger?
Greg: On nah mate, throw me in at that's what I've always said, 'cause a lot of people ask, throw me in at ten K's to go, I would love that stuff. 'Cause I just love and I plant I used to plan it so much, you know, that back in the old days with get the Google Maps 'cause I'd be the guy that would organize everything and I'd you know, back in those days I'd have a little WhatsApp group that I'd send to our sprinters and you know, that was the way we communicated. And I would be looking at the roundabouts, what side of the roundabout we're going because this one's tur curves to the right a little bit, so let's take the right hand side, you know, and then this corner here we're
Lee: Ha ha! Wow. Yeah.
Greg: We're fine, it's it's three lanes. We can go round the outside like you do in Criterion and carry more speed round there. It so yeah, but don't I don't wanna suffer for four hours over mountains to get there. Just throw to get it ten Ks to go. I love that stuff.
Lee: Yes. Ha ha You you just want to finish. Surely you must think you could still do it when you see guys like Pascal Ackerman going around. You're younger than him, aren't you?
Tils: Yeah.
Lee: Ha ha ha
Greg: well, no comment.
Lee: Yeah, yeah.
Tils: Greg, yeah, I think The challenge is as you say when they when it's sort of it's sort of like everyone's going up or I imagine what happens at night, you know, with there used to be a lot of stuff around checking you know, you'd teams would message each other or you'd speak to each other and you're trying to ascertain is Tat A gonna let us go? Like is is it a breakaway day? And so as soon as that word sort of gets out, it's a it's a breakaway day, we're just seeing it as you say over and over again that every single team wants to be in it and then even when they're in it, it doesn't It's not the right makeup, so someone keeps keeps bringing it back in. well yeah, and last night I honestly thought that Garner breakaway, we'll get on to stage 13 now. The breakaway that Garner got in, I thought this is going. Like this is, but it had too many sprint riders like teammates of the sprinters in there that just were not gonna contribute at all to to that sprint. But we saw again Tim Merlier take a hat trick last night and
Greg: Or someone's missed it.
Lee: Nah.
Tils: They must be thinking, d you know, Sidow, quick step, go, why did we ever bring Remco? We should have brought Tim earlier the two previous years.
Lee: yeah. Definitely.
Greg: Yeah, it was pretty aggressive in the final there, but again, like you said, there was just too many too many passengers, I guess you could say, that were that have enough confidence in their in their sprinter. And yeah, a lot of people I guess were saying on the the commentary was saying, sorry, on the on the T V over here was that you know, it's gonna sting take the sting out of the sprinter's legs. Well, it it doesn't take the s sting out of the sprinter's legs at all. Like they're just sitting in there like I've
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Greg: Tim Milli is having problems with his radio and didn't even know these tacks were going, you know, like he he was like so the sprinters in the leadout man, they're they're sat chill. It's not my job to do that. I've got teammates for that role. so yeah, gotta try something, but it was never gonna never gonna work. but yeah, hats off to them for trying, otherwise you just sit there in procession and and dodge the crashes, I guess. So yeah, but it i if the makeup was correct.
Tils: Mm, mm, mm.
Greg: It would be a lot harder to control if they didn't have the passengers. But again, I think what you would find would happen is once those little ripicchos were over, you would find the sprint teams actually going and having a yarn, hey mate, put your guys up. I'm putting my guys up. Let's go, we've got to catch this now. I think you'll get that because again, limited amount of sprint stages. let's not mess it up by not catching the front.
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Lee: Do you do you like with the how they've brought in the yellow and red card, do you think you would have got many yellow cards in your day?
Greg: Yeah, I do. Yeah, but I I d I was just a little bit trickier and smarter the way I did it, you know. Some of the guys I'd just shake my head. It's like I because the thing is you're in the heat of the moment, the people don't realise you're doing a hundred and ninety heart rate. And you you do everything to get to the front of the bike race. that's why if it's simplified in the l you can get in the least trouble. you know, with a leadout, being guided.
Lee: Ha. Yeah.
Greg: Staying on one side of the road, don't sprint down the middle. When you swing off from your turn, you know, like don't swing back into the middle of the Peloton. Some of the some of the calls though, I don't know what you guys think, but some of the calls for the yellow cards, like it's completely oblivious. They've no clue, they're not not intentional at all. And next thing, relegated yellow card, I'm like, how what?
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Y it's bizarre. You'd you'd think they'd know the judges or the commissaires. You'd think, you know, it's the Tour de France is a grandfather and you'd think you'd have the best guys in the business and that they would know.
Greg: So Adam Hanson's got a lot to do with that, obviously part of my leadout for for many years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've I've spoken to him and he his goal is to get like a lead out man like myself or someone on the panel that actually has sprinting knowledge, you know, and and you know, 'cause you can see things that they do that like, ooh, that was tricky, well done, you know, like that will impede the rider or something like that. you can see these things from you know, if you've been in a bunch sprint a hundred times.
Lee: Yeah, your old teammate, yeah. Yes,
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: But some of the calls, it's like that he he's this guy still doesn't know what he's done wrong, you know, some of the times when he opens the sprint or what he's still questioning it, like how, what? So I mean, yeah, I think there's some calls that but then again, it as long I think I don't know which I don't know what you guys think. As long as they're consistent, I think if it's the same for everyone, then mate, you just play by the rules, you know how it is.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Do you think Mad's gonna win the green jersey? Do you think it's his to lose now?
Tils: yeah.
Greg: I do, yes. there's not enough opportunities anymore, is there really? And Chantalise's gone. yeah, no, and I think you'll see him on the attack doing one of those mega climbs that he can I don't mean I don't know what power he's doing for ten minutes up some of those climbs. It must be horrible.
Lee: No. Yeah. Ha ha
Tils: Greg, coming back to the re relegation, it is like I think that's all we really ever want. Like, is just the consistency. And I think that's what's so hard for sprinters is that you can do one thing in one race and then do it again elsewhere and get done. And that's what's so hard, and like get away with it, or whatever it might be. It's just that I remember at the tour down under this year, I think it was Sam Wellsford, either got relegated or there was a the fine and yellow colour. Card and it was absolutely ridiculous call, and it was sort of like that's fine if that's what the new the new call is and that's going to be consistent everywhere we go. But what surprised me this tour, Hendo, is that there seems like something I've never seen before. A commissaire's gone back on their call. So we saw you know Phillipson, he was relegated and brought back, and then obviously Pederson last night as well in the intermediate sprint. I thought he
Lee: Yes.
Tils: was done and I just do not know to me Hendo this is like it's it can actually be black and white if you open up your sprint and you go completely offline you're done like it can be that simple can't it yeah
Greg: Agreed. Agreed. And yeah, like I thought Philipson was gonna get bloody the yellow card for what Mads did to him. I thought that's what they'll probably do. Philipson's gonna get a yellow card here 'cause Mads went from one side of the road to the other and nearly took over the fence in that intermediate sprint. Like, they'll get Philip but yeah, so the ruling is when the commissares, so I've did my D S licence four or five years ago and one of the one of the you know, you've got to learn all the rules and regulations obviously and
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: The ruling is, Commissaire's ruling is final. So you can appeal it, but you're you're pissing up against the wall really because it's like y it's done. But for them to actually then turn around and and go back on it, is that opened now something? I don't know, like is now can every turn every decision now be reversed?
Tils: Mm mm, mmm
Lee: Yeah. Yes.
Tils: Mm. Yeah, got they're opening themselves up. I remember I've I've been relegated once on a a sprinter actually won against Josie Talbot, which was rare for me, so I was absolutely spewing. But it was sort of like I got perspective relegated because in the intermediate sprint I absolutely moved off my line 'cause it was one of those courses where you took a really hard corner after the finish line. So moved off my line to sort of take the corner well and but then in the actual sprint hardly moved. Had heaps of people filming it could show them and they practically relegated me for the finish because of what I'd done in the intermediate sprint and you just cannot doesn't matter as soon as they say this is what it is I've never ever seen a commissaire change their mind.
Lee: Wow.
Greg: So are you sort of hinting towards maybe the Phillips and what he's done in the past, the the UCI common
Tils: Well, exactly. That's what it seemed like yesterday when he did potentially get relegated 'cause I didn't think it was that bad, but the sprint before that, it was I I was surprised he didn't get relegated in the earlier stage.
Greg: Yeah. And I think he has had some questionable sprints in the past too, so they're always looking extra hard for him. And I think maybe they don't like don't like the D S in that team as well, so
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah, I was gonna say that. Yeah.
Greg: So they're like, we hate these guys, let's let's just punish them.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Yeah, yeah. it it surprises me Hendo though to hear just how in and I think that's just why you were so good, how involved you were in I guess the planning of how you guys were gonna do the leadout. Because in my mind I thought that that all sat with the DS and the the s the the team stuff.
Greg: So that's a really yeah, so again I something to elaborate on is The DSs, like still ninety five percent of them are just ex bike riders that have n had no real specialty in in the sport and yet will line up in a hundred bunch sprints a year and not have a specialty a specialist in in the car calling them or at the team meeting. Like I know for a fact that quite a few of them get to five K's to go and say, Good luck, guys. Like no guidance
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Ha ha
Tils: Mm.
Greg: Yeah, no and I'm not joking. That is like because none of them have been at a bunch sprint. You know, it's a a very, very specific part of the sport. And it's it's one of the things that I'm sort of advocating to what you can see the teams that have it, you know, when as soon as Kittle arrived, the Rockets were in form. Actually, to be fair, Sudal have got Tom Steeles in the car and Iliokesa. Like they know what they're doing. Yeah, Renshaw with Estana, they no, sorry, Renshaw with
Lee: Wow.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Lee: Yeah. Yes, said
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yes, yes.
Greg: The cathlon. You know, they know what they're doing. It makes a difference. And what it does is they just turn up more and more regularly at the right place at the right time. You keep doing this in bunch sprinting, you will win eventually if you keep turning up. Going up the side of a mountain, we know that weeks ago, your power to weight ratio, your watts per kilogram, we know whether or not you're going to win that stage or capable of winning that stage. That's done. There's no luck, there's no positioning, there's no real skill.
Lee: it's a cathon.
Tils: Mm. Mm.
Greg: You can either push the power or you can't. Bunch sprint, is this go is this corridor gonna open? Are you are you coming from too far back? Are you have you arrived too early? Have they arrived too early and they're stopping and you there's so many intricacies in a bunch sprint that can go your way and that's why if you get the finishing, if you get the finals correct and you keep turning up and you keep turning up, like Sorin's gold for example, keep turning up, your day will come. Hundred percent your day will come.
Lee: Yeah. I guess it's a bit like AFL, you got your coach, but then you got a forward line coach, back line coach, on ball coach. They've got specialist coaches for each line and s cycling should be no yeah, it makes sense. You should have a specialist sprint coach for the flat sprint stages. Perfect sense. Yes, yep. Yeah.
Greg: Doesn't it make sense? They have T T specialists and yet we do five time trials a year.
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: And the thing is,
Tils: God, they put a lot that's such a good core hendo. The amount of money and focus all those teams put in stage one, which just seems for so many of those teams just such a distant memory. I know that it had a lot to do with GC as well and they couldn't lose time, but it's so true the amount of effort put into time travelling compared to sprints.
Lee: Yeah, Lij. Yeah.
Greg: Yep, yeah, exactly. And yeah, I mean it's it is what it is. And it's like I just think Yeah, I think it's somewhere that the sport could go for sure. because it it's you can see the teams already that are just starting to and yeah, maybe it is a crossover, maybe it's the DS that has sprinted in the past, you know, maybe it is. But the thing is, even good sprinters aren't the best at pointing a train in the right direction or or working out 'cause
Tils: Hm.
Greg: They were guided to 200 often and just opened with with two thousand watts or whatever they had back in the day. But you can tell, you can tell the teams that have had a a r a DS in the car that wasn't just you know, when I say just a bike ride, I don't mean that derogatory at all. But you know, I was never any good at anything else other than the final ten Ks of a bike race. That's where I felt comfortable. I guess it came from my track background also, you know, obviously multiple world champion on the track.
Tils: Mm. Yeah.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: I knew how to find the front of a bike race, I knew the shortest way there, I knew the way I could get there without using much energy. so it was it was I think, you know, that makes a huge difference in in the in the sprinting world.
Tils: D
Lee: Tell me tell me somet go go Matilda. Now you go. I was just
Tils: You go Lee. No, you no, you go there. do you think that the art of the pure sprinter is dead? I was cu I thought before this tour that potentially you needed to be more of an all-rounder, like a Mads Pedderson, a Phillipson, etc., who can do these sort of classics. But then seeing the likes of Tim Merlier, it's almost like you need to be that pure sprinter, because anything else could go to a breakaway or could go to a bit more of an all-rounder.
Greg: You know, I I don't think that's changed too much. I think you your sprinters they're fast, you know, and and now it's you you've got to look at I often look at it's not just about how much power you can produce. It's how what's your top speed? Like you have to be fast. Like you have to be able to go above seventy consistently, you know, and and now the the sprinting is heading towards what the track's been doing, you know, like they they're doing
Tils: Mm. Yeah. It's terrifying. Fuck.
Lee: Yeah, aye.
Greg: They they're doing the big fifty six ten sprint and it's finally starting to catch up because on the track you see them. I've got ex teammates on the track that used to tell me sprint qualifying. He goes, Hent a mate of mine, Eddie Dawkins was World Champ team sprint. He was saying sprint qualifying now is just like doing forty reps in the lead press. Whoever can lead press the most is gonna win sprint qualifying 'cause they're just on huge gears, hundred and forty, hundred and fifty inch gear, winding that thing at the top of the banking. And and road sprinting's coming that way. You see Binium Gurmai, for example, he is just crunching that that fifty six ten and it's just and they're fast, you know, they are moving it, they're getting stronger and stronger at and and there's stronger bike riders than probably what we were ten years ago, fifteen years ago. And it is it is evolving, but it's just the top end speed. Like I just keep halfing on about it. It's I don't care if you can push out, you know.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: eighteen hundred watts, I wanna see can you hit seventy three? You know, can you hit seven are you consistently above seventy K an hour on the sprint? Otherwise you're not gonna win. If you if you don't you're not going fast enough if you're not hitting seventy.
Tils: It's just crazy. I don't know how and where you even train that. That's just insane. mm.
Greg: Again it's strength, isn't It's and aerodynamics and and the rolling resistance. I mean, everything adds up. You know how technology's changed so much. It's you get you throw your leg over the bike nowadays on beach road and you're doing forty five K an hour.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah, god, yeah. Definitely. Yep. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it is ha Howride's doing fifty fifty five now. It's incredible. It's it's just gone up so much.
Greg: No, but it's true, isn't it?
Tils: You go, Lee.
Greg: How fast they are. Exactly. Yeah. It's it's a ma I mean, I even know it here just training at home when I'm just put some nice tires on and some nice clothes or whatever, you know. Just like unbelievable. I'm like there's a climb here, Els Angels, like I went two minutes quicker up there than what I did as a professional. Just 'cause the roads are sealed fast. I'm on a light bike that's actually, you know, close to close to seven kilos as opposed to the old Ridley back in the day, it might have been eight, eight and a bit, you know. So yeah, it's just mad.
Lee: Yeah. Wow. Yep. Yah guy. Yeah.
Tils: Ha ha ha.
Lee: Every everything has gone fast. There was a guy on Hellride last week who's just come back into it, who's one of the good guys back in the day, and I saw him on Wednesday and he says, I can't believe how fast things are. He goes, I got my quickest ever Hellride time on Saturday, it's the middle of July, and he'd been doing it for years back in the day and first run back and broken all his records because things are so much faster now.
Greg: They really are. They really, really are. And until you get on a tune bike, you know, like so we call the optimized. Once until you get on and you're fully optimized, you know, clothing, position, tires, chain, bike, until you get on one and feel it. It's like it's like cheating. Like last year I was testing these tires for EF education, which is pretty cool because Ben Healy went on to ride these tires in the tour and win the stage. And
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: Andreas Clare was an old teammate of mine back in T Mobile and he he's the wheel and tire expert on on EF and he rang me, he said, Hey Hindi, we've got these tires, we want to run them. We just need to f we just need to find out how much grip they've got in and out of in and out of damp corners because we're a bit nervous of them. okay, I'll try But mate, honestly, enough grip.
Tils: that
Lee: huh. Test crush dummy, test crush dummy. Yeah, yeah.
Greg: Exactly mate. And I put my hand up, yeah, right But anyway, no,
Tils: Yeah.
Greg: enough grip and yeah, the feedback I gave I said I rang him that next day. I said, mate, these are like cheating. It's like they're so fast and and it was Yeah, just fast tires. Absolutely, enough grip. And and obviously he said, Look, we're only gonna use them in the dry. We just wanted to see what your thoughts were on a on a Apache descent. And I don't don't get me wrong, I didn't hammer I didn't hammer the descent but I I didn't feel anything.
Tils: Hm.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Greg: And he goes, that's perfect, thanks very much. And they they so what they did, they optimized my bike. They put the chain on, they put the bearings on, they they waxed it, they and they said, Just go and try this out. And I thought, wow. This is fun.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, wow. Tell me something, in your opinion, is Pod the goat?
Greg: Yeah. Yeah, I r I truly believe that. And I hope I hope he just keeps winning. Like all these you know, these guys saying, like it's imagine Is it Duplantis, the high jumper? nah, just sit at a couple of centimetres lower today, I'm not gonna win. Can you imagine he's not gonna do that? Or not turning up, you know, not it's like it's all the top athletes in the world, the top sprinter, he's not gonna not win it.
Lee: Yep. I agree. Yep. So do I. Yeah, so do I. yeah. Nah. Nah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: If he can. I hope he just keeps flogging and it's like, Lift your game. 'Cause the thing is, again, you know where the level is. It's not it's not hidden, it's not rocket science. You know, hey guys, this is how many watts per kilogram you've got to be doing for ten, fifteen, twenty minutes. You it's there. It's not no guesswork.
Lee: No. Yeah, so do I.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yep. Yep.
Tils: Hendo on that same question, do you do do you think that the record is five Tour de Frances or seven?
Greg: How is he so fast though? How is he so fast? Like
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: It's Steven, isn't
Lee: Ha ha ha.
Greg: What is the record?
Tils: Well it depends. It depends whether you count whether you count there's only been a lot of discussion this last week, Endo, on do you c are we counting Lance or are we counting like Merckx and Hanoi and those guys? Are they the five or is it Lance's seven?
Lee: no, 'cause they're saying that's yeah.
Greg: 'Cause the guys that have had five before were weren't taking drugs.
Tils: Ha ha ha.
Lee: Yeah, exact yeah, Merck's went pods three times. Everyone f likes to forget conveniently forget that. So yeah.
Tils: Dude.
Greg: I I don't know I mean I think Pog is is the better athlete because I mean back in the day Merck's he was racing farmers. You know, they'd just turn up with their their woolly socks on and a possum skin a possum skin bloody chamois and away they'd go.
Tils: Mm.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Pogs against specialists. Nowadays you got classic specialists and he's beating the specialists. Unbelievable.
Greg: Correct. Correct, correct. So I I think he's the to answer your question, I in my opinion, he is the goat. Like how does he even compete in those in in Roubaix and like it's even to win Milan San Remo, like
Lee: Yeah, I agree. No. Yes.
Greg: It's incredible. And then you see I yes, I'm with you. It's like, mate, we're alive in this area. Like I've heard of Mercs and I've I've heard you know, everyone waffles on about it and I'd never saw any of it, you know. And I guess of course a lot of it is to do with how accessible everything is now on the internet, you know, or streaming or or whatever, you know, social media. We never saw that without for Mercs. But you know, and I'm sure the guys that were racing Mercs at the time were like, How the hell do you beat this guy? He's just a freak.
Tils: Mm, mm, mm.
Lee: We're just so lucky to be witnessing it. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Tils: Yeah, I say the same thing.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Tils: Mm.
Greg: But I think if you just because the sport's evolved so much, there's so many specialists in every category, every department, and he's you know, he's cleaning them up basically, isn't he? He's like Yeah, so I think that's interesting. What do you think? Is it five or seven? What's your what's your take?
Lee: Yes. Yeah.
Tils: Mm, mm. I just You know, I like the the hard one with it, like I think they all had their you know, they all got at one point, I think they were done for using. I think what makes for me Lance so much worse is he was such an instigator. Like I think that whole drug era went for so much longer because he was just the king of it. Like he, you know, he worked so hard and just ended anyone who tried to speak out about it. He was an enormous bully. He was the you know, he was the head of the CFMAU. He was like the you know, you don't you you've gotta punish the guy who organized the guy that threw the firebom into the into the shop more than the guy that threw it. Like it was, you know, I just think he ruined lives. You know, he ruined lives. Like he yeah.
Lee: Ha. Yeah. I still think it's seven though. Yeah, he did, he's a b prick. But I s it's still seven though. Like I know it's not but it is. Like it's still seven. Like you I that's my opinion. Like I I you know
Tils: Mm.
Greg: No, that's a good point, Tills. I like that's a good way of looking at it. I and like Lee, I'm with you, I totally agree. I think it's seven, but it's not, but it is. But that's a really good perspective that you put on it, Tills. It's like, yeah, no, you do have to punish the guy that threw that organised the guy to throw the the firebomb. I I like that.
Tils: Yeah. Mm, yeah.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Tils: Yeah. I think
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: and I think that that is has been lost quite a bit. And I'm I'm I'm I you know, I if I met Lance I would be totally like, Yeah, amazing, you know, that's there's Lance and but but I think and he has had, you know, some repentance, but also he hasn't. He was never punished. He never and so if his punishment is that he can mate he was a he's a multi millionaire. He is a multimillionaire. He made sure that they couldn't take any of his money and instead he invested it into Uber.
Lee: All struck. Starstruck. he was punished He financially Yeah, but he was punished he I know, but he went on Oprah, he was
Tils: please. Oprah, try bloody lee sales on ABC.
Lee: publicly shamed. It was it was a fair punishment. Like I do think he Yeah, but still it was embarrassing. Yeah, I know, but it was still a a downfall for him for him as as much. Like he did like he did lose a lot like he's got his swagger back. yeah. But then s but then so sh then so should have a lot of others, you know what I mean? So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: He should have been in jail. He should have been in jail. He didn't do a single night. You know, like that's the that's that's that's the thing with Lance. Yeah.
Greg: It's it's amazing, isn't it? Like a topic like Lance can divide you can divide like L we're still talking Lance though, aren't we? You know, it's amazing that we're still talking about And it's dividing opinions.
Tils: Mm. Yeah, but like I think
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: It was incredible. Like I think, you know, we should get Rupert Guinness on it at some point. But like speaking to the journalists in that era with Lance, if you asked because he was the biggest name, and if then if you even indicated that you thought that he used drugs, he would blacklist you. You he you would ask a question and he would be silent. He wouldn't even ans so you're going there with a publication and you can't even get a quote or be even near him because he's blacklisted you because you indicate
Lee: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: Potentially, and then he was at the end of the day. After all of this, he actually was. and you know, and I'm probably just a just a girl looking at who you know. I loved Lance, and that's probably why I am you know more hurt by it potentially as well. May have got cut coloured glasses on it, but yeah, that's yeah, the way he acted, and I think that's the other thing, Hendo, is why Poggy is so loved, is from the outside, he's the most.
Lee: Yeah, I know.
Greg: Yeah.
Lee: Nah, I I love Doric.
Tils: wonderful ambassador for our sport. He he could be an arsehole. He could be, you know, see you next Tuesday and just go out there and just give no one any time
Lee: Yeah. Nah he's not
Tils: seems to love what he is doing is amazing.
Lee: And you saw you saw how he was with Tim Merle Tim Merlier's kid after the stage. Like I'm just like, how can anyone boo him or dislike him? Why not he's just such a lovely human.
Tils: Mm, mm.
Greg: And he just looks like he loves racing his bike. That's the cool thing. You know, it's it's not a chore to him. Like I've got a mate who lives in in Nice and he just bought the new Y1RS and he is super proud of it and he stopped at the coffee shop and next thing bling and and pogachow roll in, but he just goes, Pog, he doesn't just roll in, he comes in, jumps the bloody curb on his front brake, up on his front off on his front wheel, comes in, stops.
Lee: Yes, yes. Yeah.
Tils: Hehehehehe
Lee: Ha ha ha.
Greg: beside his bike, here he is in his new Y one R S and he goes, nice bike, mate. And and he just goes, I I felt so embarrass I had to leave, he goes, I had to leave because here I am in my blinged out buddy Y one R S and here's Pog just turns up on one wheel. He's like felt so embarrassed and I'm like, nah man, he would have loved that. Yeah. Yeah, that so that was pretty cool stuff.
Lee: so good.
Tils: Hahaha
Lee: Nice.
Tils: Yeah.
Lee: No, that's cool. Yeah, exactly.
Tils: Hmm Hendo was there did you ever experience you're on some of the biggest teams. Did you have experience? booing with with any your GC writers or What do you think of the the booing not I don't think he's getting it a lot But it has been a topic this week that are pog going off the front his dying to get a lot of booze from the French fans
Greg: Isn't that just French?
Lee: Yeah, exactly.
Tils: Lee, we see the light in the AFL.
Greg: you do? Okay, I thought it just a French thing.
Lee: yeah, but that's 'cause they've done they've done something dirty, like they've ki hit someone behind play or they've done something said something like Pog said nothing. All he's done is win. That's not his fault.
Tils: Mmm.
Greg: I I just thought it was a French thing, the booing A. I just honestly and Yeah. Wha what do they want? I just can't I mean again, it's just beyond me. I don't so I don't get involved in that sort of thing, you know. It's like that discussion, I get it. He's getting booed or whatever. What do you want me to do? You know? Do you want me to slow down and let a Frenchman win? I I don't I don't get so it's just again, it's beyond my
Tils: Yeah. Hahaha
Lee: Yeah, exactly.
Tils: Hmm.
Lee: Yeah, exactly.
Tils: No one else can pass go
Lee: No gifts, no gifts.
Greg: It's n it's beyond my capacity to think. Like why would you boo? Like just just be in awe and and and and applaud and and be happy. But I honestly I just think it's a French like it's and it's I don't think it's as derogatory. That's what I'm getting at, a French thing. I don't think it's as derogatory as what it is that the Kiwi or an Aussie were bowing someone in the crowd. I think it's a different culture. It's not it's not necessarily the billing that we think. I think you can Wikipedia that you can look that up on Groc.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mmm.
Lee: Yes.
Tils: Mmm. Yeah.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: Yeah. Hendo
Greg: I reckon there's a I reckon I've read that somewhere, that th there's a different meaning to the bullet. We need to get the AI in on and and weigh in
Tils: yeah a bit of AI I will Hendo we saw one of the first sort of real nasty crashes last night did you you must have had some bad crashes in your time how do you experience that and then go and put yourself back in that situation the next day
Lee: Cock. Yeah.
Greg: yeah, no, it's it's one of those things and you do have to work on it a lot actually. you come become a little bit gun shy. because as you know in a bunchman if you touch your brakes, you're gonna lose three or four Ks an hour and then to get that back, you know, you just can't in the in the final of a bunch, you just can't touch your brakes. And then of course when you've had a big off. generally it's a situation where let's say
Tils: Hmm. Yeah.
Greg: If it was a a wheel chopped you in front or or something that you you've got in the mix and it should have opened or you probably shouldn't have crashed, that's when you can become a bit gun shot because you're not sure how it happened. A bunch sprint like there where the first guy went down and then there's top the the domino effect, it's not as scary. Like you just know and you're on the anchors and you're you've just sent your ass over the back wheel as much as possible, trying to scrub off as much speed if you've got time. And
Tils: Mm-mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: It's that's not what scares you, those crashes. It's the ones where all of a sudden next thing you're still hanging on to your handlebars and and you're up like this going, They're the ones that scare you. Like, how the how did that happen? And then you're a bit gun shy and yeah, it does t it just takes time, it really does. And it can take a while.
Tils: Hmm
Greg: I had it on the track actually, situation where it was it was a filthy crash and I was just I was actually a bit gun shy Yeah, I was a bit gun shy on the track there for a while. I I couldn't I had to work out how to get get over it.
Tils: fuck, that's bad. the track ones man, when they burn you, when they burn you.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Mm-mm.
Lee: I see your old teammate finally retired at I think he's eighty six years old now. Froom finally retired and made it official the other week. Finally No, don't say he's coming back.
Greg: Hey but I I I read somet I read something where
Tils: hahahaha
Greg: I read they got he had an interview and goes they asked him, so when did you finally decide about your retirement? And he goes, W when I signed five years ago with Israel start up nation.
Tils: hahahaha
Greg: I thought that was classic quote. It already decided
Lee: boom wow Why not? Yeah, exactly. If they're gonna give it to him, take it.
Greg: just take the five take the five years and then retire.
Tils: Mmm.
Greg: Nice retirement plan.
Lee: Yeah, definitely. Five years noti five years he's he's given five years notice.
Greg: though that was hilarious. Yeah, exactly. god. That was funny.
Tils: Hahaha Well Hendo, we're in for an entertaining finish to our tonight's stage later today for you in Europe. It's all flat except for a casual two and a half, almost two and a half thousand meters that comes within 35 kilometers, which is 50 K from the finish because the finish is all downhill. Will it be a Tom Pidcock descending special? Essentially there's just really only two hills.
Lee: yeah.
Tils: which come after 150 kilometres of mostly flat roads and then a big descent to the finish. Will it be breakaway, GC, can mads get over?
Lee: Mm.
Greg: i if I looked at this on paper when I was racing, it's it's got Richard Carapaz, Tom Pidcock written all over it, hasn't it? breakaway, let go. Nice day. The G C boys can do what they want, ten minutes behind. and have you know, they can still take some G C time. you know, Pogachar can still take some more time, but not win the stage. But I think it's possible that again
Lee: yep. Yep.
Greg: Everyone knows it's a breakaway. Everyone races and races and races and they're racing at fifty-five Ks an hour. So next thing hundred Ks is done of the stage. a little break finally goes and then the team starts riding, they don't get enough time. I just can see that that seems to play out all the time. So I wouldn't be surprised if then the brakes neutralize each other and then UAE put the throttle down and and Pog wants to take some more time on his GC rivals.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: And you know, a by product of that is he catches the front, descends to victory. I can see that happening. But what I would love to see is yeah, your pitcocks, y your carapaz getting away in the breakaway and and 'cause that climb that's a very, very hard climb. I don't think Mads Mads shouldn't get over that. Yeah. I don't know, what do you think?
Tils: Mmm. Yeah. to an almost two and a half thousand meters. I think this tour is just so ridiculous to pick, but this is one of the hardest ones to pick a winner, but surely, surely this has to be one of those riders like Vácek, Simmonds, Carapes, what can Pitcox, Pitcox showing a lot better form, what can Plappy do on the descent though? Not sure.
Lee: Flap?
Greg: My pay.
Lee: Flat P. No, you'll be okay. Now you'll be fine.
Greg: yeah. You'll be alright. Just stay away from the white shit as as Pidcock says.
Lee: Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, I saw that.
Tils: It was a shame to see Chris Hamilton come down in all of that.
Greg: I I had a question there.
Lee: Yes. What's a what was your
Greg: That's my question.
Lee: question?
Tils: Was it a J.K.O.
Greg: No, it's gone. It's gone. I had a question I'd forgotten.
Tils: One, let me quickly get your thoughts on this then for both of you being a Jayco fans. Caleb Ewan had some strong comments this week on SBS around that doesn't seem like on Jayco writers are helping one another. I thought, what's the Swiss writers name? Mauro Schmidt and Plappy work pretty, yeah, pretty well together, but it is probably a little bit hard. The sprinter's left on his own. Harper sort of seems to be trying to
Lee: Mario Smith.
Tils: make breaks even though, I mean sorry, Ben O'Connor, Ben O'Connor seems to be trying to make breaks even though Tadde has said he wants to win the stage. Yeah, your thoughts on how they're going Hendo?
Lee: No Harper's Harper's No, whoa, whoa, whoa, Harper's not in that team. Ben O'Connor.
Greg: Yeah, it looks maybe it's they haven't got the right combination of riders to help each other. You know, you've got a sprinter, you need someone that's willing to risk I guess it's almost it is hard also if you're gonna risk a bunch final for someone who's probably gonna run a top ten, you don't quite ride through the brick wall for
Tils: Yeah. Hmm.
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: You know, you kind of you tap the brakes here and shit, it's a bit good luck mate, where you go. Whereas, you know, if you go if I get him inside a kilometer on Millier's wheel, I'll fight for that. If he gets there, mate, he's got a chance. So it's a bit of a difference, I think that's probably t to play. And then Yeah, I I don't know, I I to be honest, I haven't been paying a lot of attention.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
Tils: Mmm.
Greg: to Jaco. maybe 'cause they are quite invisible. I have seen Bling and I feel a bit sorry for Bling 'cause he's yeah, he's such a good bike rider. He loves racing. He loves winning. but yeah he just needs more time to come back I think. How old is Bling now actually?
Tils: Mmm.
Lee: Meh Yeah.
Tils: yeah 35 I've got it here yeah he's uh 35 yeah same as Durbridge actually yeah same as Durbo so yeah crazy that they're the same age actually with Durbo's being being last last tour
Lee: I don't know how I thirty five.
Greg: It's getting long on the tooth. So I was I was forty when
Lee: Wow.
Greg: I did my last Tour de France. I don't think there's many people at forty doing the Tour de France anymore. I don't think that'll happen.
Lee: wow.
Tils: Well, that's it. Yeah, yeah, oh, you and Garen Thomas. 39, I think. He retired at 39, I think it was. yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's amazing. Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. Too many altitude camps.
Lee: Nye. yeah.
Greg: Did he do it as forty? Yeah.
Lee: Wow.
Greg: I don't think a lot of people do. I just think
Lee: No.
Greg: Just because how focused they are now, you know, from a young age, chasing yeah, altitude camps, chasing numbers, looking at their power meters. I was I I was DS and coach here of the U twenty three EF team. And I was starting to organise these rides, you know, like these group rides. 'Cause we had six of the kids in town. You know, I can again teach them some things, how to descend, how to You know, save some energy when we do some swap offs. And one of the cool things we did the sprint drills, you know, like I I taught them just because you're not a sprinter when you come in in a a small group, I taught them how to win from a small group, you know, how to accelerate control from the front, use your gears, you become you can't it's hard to pass an accelerating mass. so I I showed them ha just all these little tricks I could show them. But do you think I could get them out every on a regular to bloody do this group ride? Like no, look I've got da da da da da XYZ on zone three, zone two and a bit of zone f I've got this, this and like and they just want to go out on their own and chase chase the power meter. And I'm like, I guess you know, and we we'd have our conference call and our discussion and I said, like it's just how it is. It's like I really struggle. I'll I'll tee up the meeting, you know, on teams and and get the group right. We're meeting at nine here, da da da and the apology comes in, the apology comes in. The closer we get to the right the ap next thing
Tils: Yeah. Mmm... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lee: that's like here.
Greg: There's two of us going out for a ride.
Lee: Soft.
Tils: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you've already heard it from Paul Sexus though. Like he's already said, I remember earlier this year, even before the spring, he'd been on two altitude camps.
Greg: But that's gotta take a mental toll, don't you think? Like I
Lee: My Yep. Yeah.
Tils: one in December and then one in March. Like it's just, and he's 19. And so you know that these guys aren't going to see probably past their thirties surely. That, and he was saying then I just haven't seen my girlfriend. Yeah. So, but I just haven't, you know, I haven't, haven't seen my girlfriend and that's, that's the challenge I think for them is just sucking that enjoyment out of it. And I think that's where today is so good because we've already seen Paul sexist. was a little bit
Greg: Wow. In the sport.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: annoyed at the start of the tour. He was telling people to be quiet and getting just a bit frustrated where I think Tade is so good at and that's probably because he's just always winning. It's easy to be great when you're winning and in a good mood but he always brings a certain aura of enjoyment to it and I think I loved an interview. It was a great question that TNT asked Tade when Del Toro had lost all that time in the last GC stage and they asked Tade what would you say to del Toro and he said just sit, you know, take a step back and enjoy it. Look where you are. It's okay. Like just, you know, like enjoy the process, enjoy the moment. And I just thought, wow, like to have that as your mentor in your team. Like I think, you know, it's such a great outlook. That's what you want to say to any young athlete.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, so good.
Greg: Yeah, that's cool, isn't it? That's really cool to say hear that. Yeah, take a look around, mate. Look where you are. Look look at the crowds you're riding to. Look where you are right now. You're in a you know, it's it's it's insanity. Yeah. This is a lot of suffering, a lot of a lot of you know, it's a lot of work to get there, a lot of sacrifice to get there. But have a look around and enjoy try and enjoy it, you know.
Lee: And sign.
Tils: Mm-mm.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: well Hendo, just last question. Thanks. We've been doing a couple of coaching segments. Thanks to join cycling, but as you are a sprint coach or you know, you're a to everyone, but your profession, I would love to know what would be like a key session that sprinters would do with you. Like what, if you had to get fast, what is like your go-to session?
Lee: Yeah.
Greg: So the it's one of the most underrated things for sprinting is actually a standing start. from from a slow speed and and not it doesn't have to be a massive gear, you know, middle of the block, but slow right down because then what you actually do is you employ a whole range of cadence. So you go from your thirty, forty, fifty, six up to race cadence, up to a hundred and twenty RPM and you repeat that. So you get the you get the power and the torque that's needed for sprint training. But you also get a lot of people don't have coordination, and a lot of people don't understand, but there's so much coordination involved in being able to be out of your saddle sprinting tidily and fast arrow at 120 RPM. And if you can become efficient, it's really good. That would be my my number one training. But there's probably three I use. the other one is again just a technique one, it's just high cadence stuff out of the seat, small gear.
Tils: Yeah. Mmm.
Greg: So it does it's not about power. Again, it's this coordination because it's so important. And so you watch a lot of people when they sprint, they just look awkward on their bike out of the seat. But it's getting that coordination, Lee. That's all you need, mate, is just
Lee: Yeah, god, I look horrible.
Tils: Hahaha
Lee: Yeah, I know. I d it's funny you say that because Jez Hunt, who was helping me for Melbourne Warnable last year, he was I I had to do those things. The standing start sprint and it was all he said, make it coordinated look concentrate on your form. Exactly what you've just said. That's what he was getting me to do. Then he saw a video of me doing it and just went, shit. So it wasn't pretty. Yeah, it wasn't pretty, Greg.
Tils: Hahaha
Greg: 'Cause it goes through the whole range of cadence. And the other thing we do for top speed is we find a downhill, a nice big downhill where you'll get a free leadout and into an uphill. So you'd you'd it's a reverse cadence thing. So you come in at maybe a hundred and twenty five and then you get to the top and you're just grunting to the top. So that'll be my three key sprint drills.
Lee: Yep, yep. Yep. Yes, yes. Yes, yep.
Tils: Mm-mm. Ugh.
Lee: Yeah.
Tils: Yeah, they're fantastic. I'm a bit sad you said that first one Hendo, because I swear to God those pricks when I go out with them on North Road or something, pretty sure they do that first session at every red light. So when we take off from the red light, I seem to be going like 1500 watts.
Lee: Wow. yeah, they t fuck. Why do I have to do a thousand what's I
Greg: Yes, yes.
Lee: say, why do I have to do a thousand what's off to light your fuckheads?
Greg: Yeah.
Tils: sorry. Imagine me. my God, it's terrible. Anyway.
Lee: I'm always complaining. Yeah, I know. But yeah, but you've got talent. I don't have talent. I'm a bum. God.
Tils: All right, we'll leave it with you just calling everyone the F word. Hendo, thank you so much for your time. It was fantastic to get your insight. yeah, I got it's crazy that you're not like, I'd love to see I know you don't want to be DS, you don't want to be driving around France for over three weeks, but man, you are a talent in what you could do with some of these teams. So yeah, it's great to get your analysis.
Greg: brilliant.
Lee: Ha ha Yeah, definitely, mate. Thank you.
Greg: Thanks very much. I could have chatted here all day actually. I quite I really I really enjoyed it. Thanks. Thanks for having me back on. I I really do. And and it it's it's nice talking to people that actually know some stuff, you know, as well and they can see it and bring other s perspectives too. And it gets me thinking, it's like, Wow, that's pretty clever actually. So thanks again guys, and any time I'd love to come back.
Tils: Yeah.
Lee: Yeah. No, thank you. Pleasure. Yep. Yeah, always, mate, always.
Tils: Yeah, no, we love having you. love having you. There's a lot more we could have spoken about how the Kiwis going, how's Aaron Gate goes on, but Hendo, we'll leave it at the hour. Thanks so much. And we'll speak to you soon. A big thank you to Join Cycling. Be sure to check out the links below and of course, Black Sheep Cycling. We will see you soon. Katerna, have a good weekend. Good luck on Saturday and I'll see you later. Thanks, Hendo. Bye for now.
Greg: Yeah.
Lee: I'll see ya later. Yeah, hellride tomorrow. See ya.
