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Unknown
Welcome to the Developing Life podcast, people. Tick tick tick.
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Unknown
What does it take to define yourself on your own terms, especially in an industry that constantly tries to define you first find out what multidisciplinary creative Phillip Jay Clayton has to say about this as we welcome him to the Developing Life podcast with over 20 years experience in the industry, Phillip is a brand design and marketing consultant and strategic advisor known for Navigate and complex brand challenges and transforming them into strategic solutions with a commitment to authentic expression and trust over convention, Phillip has built a life and career defined by purpose motion in meaning.
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Unknown
His journey began in the fine arts and evolved into a dynamic, career spanning advertising, marketing and brand development. Phillip has worked in a wide variety of roles, from consults, consultancy positions to collaborative projects, and is the founding partner of PJC, a hybrid brand focused business solutions agency. He's also a writer and a member of the Pack Global Leadership Awards International Judging Commission.
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He lends his insight and experience to help shape the global conversation around branding and design. Through it all, Philip's work and personal philosophy remain rooted in reclaiming purpose, resisting stagnation, and embracing trust as the foundation for genuine connection with our host, Devon Bowman. Philip shares his reflections on identity, legacy and the ongoing process of defining oneself outside the limitations of societal expectation and what it truly means to build a life and a body of work that refuses to be boxed in.
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Unknown
Welcome, Philip.
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Unknown
Thank you for having me. There was a lovely.
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Unknown
Yeah. Thank you so much, Heather. Thank you so much for the introduction. Philip, it is amazing to see you today. Thank you so much for joining us. I personally am excited to dig into your journey today. I have to say that you are probably the most confident designer that I have ever met.
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Unknown
I've had the privilege here lately of listening to a few of your past interviews, of witnessing your your business growth and development, and it seems like the consistent thing is like a belief in yourself. And so I'm excited to see how that's impacted your journey. Or to see if I've even got it right. You know, maybe there's some hidden struggles there that we can dive into.
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Unknown
But before we begin, would you like to introduce yourself? I know that your journey is one of evolution. So as of today, who is Philip Jay Clayton?
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Unknown
As of today. That's a very interesting question. I don't think I've got that long before. Okay. Today, is,
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Unknown
I'm, I'm discovered by a path of my freedom. So I'd say I am emerging. That's what I am today. I am emerging from what I described as a cave. Yeah. Maybe some kind of hell. A journey, I mean, man, yeah, but what do you want to do? You want to talk about that a little bit?
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Unknown
Because I've, I've followed you from from Covid until now, especially. And just seeing how, I guess, intelligent and how curated you were about observing both sides of the impact of that. You know that there's a good and there is a bad, and that we will emerge from it. I mean, as the as the hell that you're emerging from, from the past few years.
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Unknown
Is it more of a recent thing or can you describe it a little bit for us? I'd say this is my this is the five year part of what began, before Covid for me. Covid shut me violently into that corner, and I had to figure out how to go forward from, if you could imagine a lot of things happening all at once, externally and internally, and then you're left with decisions to make.
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Unknown
In my situation, I was forced, for the first time in my life to be alone and deal all of that without anybody to help me to eventually reach out once you get through a certain part. But, you know, what happened to me was, personal life. Things were changing rapidly. Professional life was changing then Covid. It wasn't Covid for me.
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Unknown
It was all of that. Then Covid, and Covid was just the result that wasn't, a person, a microscope into what was happening before Covid. It doesn't reveal the only revealed the fleeting and frivolous, parts of our human behavior and how we manage time and things. Right? Yeah. And for me, once that happened, I was like, okay, well, this is it.
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Unknown
You know, I'm going to just, go forward with this. And I thought I would have company doing that. That didn't happen. So, the personal life was really painful, I guess you say, and then you start to reevaluate what word means to me, what kind of life I wanna live, what kind of professional experience I want.
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Unknown
And does it have to be separated? And I arrived at the gates of hell. It could have been heaven, but for me was health. And, I open I lot. It, I wrote a paragraph on a piece of paper. I said, well, hell is hell is not a place. It's a it's a state of perpetual torment. You have to choose to find your way out of it.
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Unknown
And when you find your way out, you'll be forever changed. And I guess this would happen to me. I don't know if it's good or bad. We can never know that till results come in. But and emerging from that hell, and I have lots of clarity, lots of clarity and I feel much calmer. Much, or at peace.
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Unknown
But I see a brighter path, a better path, a better future. And I see where personal my personal life experience and work can actually be harmonized. I don't have to feel guilty about thinking about work, or I don't want to work today. I don't want to feel guilty about that. I can just do that. I'll always prioritize what I think is a better, benefit when my life comes down to on a spectrum of everything of, of everything that is horribly good or bad and good or really about being appropriate, inappropriate.
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Unknown
Anyway. So that's another thing. The last line I so I'm sorry, I watched the series on Netflix called Civil War, and that's my second scariest thing I've seen on to on any screen outside of Beaver, vendetta. I don't know, the movies scare me. And I'm not scared because of the story told, but because of the tangibility of the story in either current climate.
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Unknown
Right. Like muzzle velocity. That's that's my best way. So something very small can happen, and it's it's impact is so great that it really induces a massive response. And you have to hope it's a good response for it or otherwise. You're just going to go with chaos and chaos. This breed a lot of good things. But you know, it's really about whether you want to endure that or not, I think.
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Unknown
So I know it is a sidetrack, but it's kind of the same thing. It's that's where I am. It's I'm a detached observer of of society and life. Right now. I feel no compulsion, to align myself with anything or anyone. Right. Touched on so many good points there. One again, just a testament to your confidence. I know so many people, myself included, who would, you know, figuratively walk up to those gates of hell and maybe feel like it's better to leave them closed, you know?
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Unknown
But having the courage to recognize that and to move through the fear and just confidently take that next up and then to see, you know, the impact it's had on your demeanor and your your vision and, and even the strength that you develop from just moving through experiences like that is, is so powerful. And so I think maybe to, to connect the, the past and then start to move into the future.
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Unknown
I would love to move into your design journey. What was happening, you know, before 2020. I know that you have been been a designer. You have been a consultant for, you know, going on two decades. Plus, I know that there have been, a lot of pivots in there. And one of the things that really struck me about one of the interviews I listened to, the featured you, was that you said from the beginning, the vision has been the same and the vision has never changed.
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Unknown
And to make a pivot is different than, you know, changing the entity of a brand. So just your, your connection to the actual soul of, of even your own personal brand is such a beautiful and powerful thing. So I mean, what what was your design journey like? What what inspired it? Fine art inspired it. I like okay, I understand what this is now, but I was always trying to figure out some kind of,
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Unknown
Value feel this feeling of being value valued or acknowledged in some way. Let's be honest, art for me. Well, I don't know. Let's be honest. For me, art is a luxury that always will be something that I do that, art is in a, in our reality, a luxury. It is. It is the dynamic opposite of what water is to people who don't have it.
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Unknown
Right. So art is, okay, I can afford it, so I'm going to buy it. That's how we hide money is how we leverage money. So we we like it. Obviously we don't. You know, we like the things we buy, but it's really a luxury to buy art. And I said, okay, that's nice. But, when I was in high school, they asked me, what's my what?
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Unknown
My favorite bubble, my superpower be. And I said, mind control. Really? Everybody's trying to do, strength and flying. And I'm like, well, I want to control. I never saw myself as a metro man. I never wanted to be that. It's not desirable. I like leverage. I like technique, I like things that give me an advantage, turn my disadvantages into an advantage.
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Unknown
Yeah, and design open that. Well, that's how I saw design from a movie. Right. So I feel like I've shared the story before. What? I, I was watching something was a movie or TV series and the on the Thrones. Right. I know it was. It was year. Yeah. Guy. Well, yeah. You know what? That's actually leverage a great example of how families, you know, people leverage each other.
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Unknown
That's a good point. But the one I'm talking about was an architect. He drew a building and it was so great and show it. But they got you got the feeling. And it was such a great design that everybody wanted this and they killed it. And I was like, I want to be that guy. And then my friends thought, oh, wild, probably.
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Unknown
Does this say something like that? I like that the fact that he died and even even if he died. So I remember the drawings, right. The drawings is what is work is what they remembered. That's what they wanted and went to the child and were pulling packages apart, which is probably why I ended up in being interior packaging design.
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Unknown
But, I remember pulling it apart. Everything I had, I pull them apart, see how they work. And then I said, maybe I can do something else with it, or can I fix it? Let's assume that I broke it. Can I fix it? But as that from a business oriented family, my father was very creative and, from a family of scientists or anything, but just me.
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Unknown
I just, I liked science, I like all these things, but they're all under the title of design, I guess, in terms of process and discovery and even art fell under there. And that's what my design journey was. It was okay, this is I can make something beautiful. But before I get there, I needed to have some kind of value that changes something.
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Unknown
I have the ability to create, context and control the narrative or perspective and change expand in this and experience, to the person who's going to use it. And I said, I just always wanted to do that. And design became what I call my purpose. Yeah. And my journey. But my journey started in fine art, you know.
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Unknown
So do you think that the fine art background, just because, you know, as you said, like art, there's really not a value attached to it, like it is the value that the, the buyer places on it, the value that the artist places on it with, with their passion. Do you think that moving through that industry and then transitioning over into design gave you more of, I guess, a confident outlook in, in pricing your work or just like, you know, understanding that it is a value that people are paying for.
00:13:41:02 - 00:14:06:11
Unknown
So not not short selling yourself. Oh, absolutely. So if you can attach a purpose to art, then you've changed the the perspective of it. Yeah, a purpose meaning something beyond yourself. A friend of mine shared something with me years ago. He said that art pleases an audience of one and designed please aims to please a wider audience. Yeah, and I think creative people generally have big egos.
00:14:06:12 - 00:14:40:22
Unknown
So, we, we tend to believe that we will save the world. We will. But yeah, I like motivation. And the client is always stupid. And, you know, even the recently I shared a tweet and this lady, academic said that the art, the argument about, the argument for people from art school that anti-intellectual arguments, intellectualism, against intellectuals is, is like to very repetitive.
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Unknown
But she was doing the very thing that my post is really about the assumptions we make and how we respond to that. Oh yeah. And I said, we either respond from, a place of, you know, like the, academy learning I didn't have. I'm nothing against academic learning. I'm just saying that was one point is you were responding to information you have.
00:15:03:02 - 00:15:26:10
Unknown
But the real world experience is a completely different thing. And when that hits you, your response change. Mike Tyson said, if you get punched in the face, your plan goes away, right? It's kind of like what happened to us. A lot of us, every day or maybe years apart. The pandemic apart, we make all these plans and we, we, the past and future are really non-existent.
00:15:26:12 - 00:15:43:16
Unknown
One is always arriving by the second and the other one is leaving by the second. So you're really always in the present. And it's something they spoke about, one of my favorite authors. And I like the fact that to do great work, you have to be present to have a great big life experience. You have to be present.
00:15:43:18 - 00:16:05:17
Unknown
You do? I think Marcus Aurelius or Seneca. Marcus Aurelius said that. Be good at the thing. Be good at what you're doing. Nothing else matters, right? You know you can be because it is selfish or cathartic, because people believe Stoics like I thought that even though somebody's calling bro ism. But I don't get into that. That's nonsensical.
00:16:05:18 - 00:16:50:20
Unknown
So, yeah. So be good at what you do. And I think everything else falls into place. It's it's understanding what time and effort is and how you value those two things. Work. And I've shared is so many times work, job and, business. If only it suits the separate those three. And that's why I break time and effort that I love that, I love that, and so, you know, when it, when it comes to building that connection, that was one of the things that really struck me about your position as a, as a brand consultant, you know, just as you said that Mike Tyson quote, like, you don't know
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Unknown
until you're hit in the face. But one of the points that you made is that we as creators spend all of this time building up like this appearance of a product or an experience or something, but you very pointedly said, like that real experience doesn't stop until it's taken off the shelf, or until it's like it's in your hands and you're starting to unwrap it because you know, no matter what you've done before, after that, if that moment isn't the thing that that is special, it's probably not going to be meaningful.
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Unknown
So, I mean, what what led you to kind of having that, that philosophy and kind of cutting through the, you know, I feel like one of the statements that I've heard from you over and over again is that like it, your your brand has to be in business, like the business being out there and functioning is what what really develops the brand.
00:17:35:05 - 00:17:55:06
Unknown
It's not you know, all of the other things are important. But but why is that your, your focus on it and why is that the thing that you have moved into? I guess in kind of the consulting position with your clients, you know, why is that the most valuable thing to you? You could build a great product.
00:17:55:08 - 00:18:21:21
Unknown
It's great quality, and it's there, you know it and everybody knows it. But you were in a company devoted for some reason, and you start to do a lot of explainer advertising around it, or you could be confident in that product and create a beautiful, dynamic experience of accessing that product. And I think that's way more valuable. Yeah, but to do that, you have to be confident in your product.
00:18:21:21 - 00:18:40:15
Unknown
So I don't think you have to sell me the product. Well, I just have to try it. Yeah. But I get access to this and that's that's the brand. Brand. The brand forms after the experience ends. Right. Not what is happening. Yeah. So what are you really doing? What are you. So what do you do with clients? You know, you're building a brand, the brand that are there.
00:18:40:15 - 00:19:02:19
Unknown
You're just helping to shape and form it. But a brand cannot exist once that client or product engages with someone else who's trying to get it, then you have some kind of association be formed right? No, I will always love brands. Even right now with tariffs. I love brand because it showed me that people would still do anything to get a Birkin bag.
00:19:02:21 - 00:19:26:18
Unknown
And I was like, yeah, you're getting it directly from China now. Yeah. And you're saying price is cheaper, but you're right. You're really saying that, oh, I can still get the brand at a lower cost. So for me the world is just mad. Like what are we talking about. You still brands are always going to be the head of everything brand is is how you leverage a business.
00:19:26:20 - 00:19:47:08
Unknown
And they're celebrating that they can get their Birkin bags cheaper. Now. Right. And I'm like yeah but you want a Birkin bag. That's the whole point you're celebrating. Yeah. Price is was just two hours of reach for you. And I'm okay with that because I'm, I'm I think I'm very capitalistic by nature. But in terms of sustainability, not greed, if that makes sense.
00:19:47:10 - 00:20:12:08
Unknown
Yeah. So yeah, I, I'm going to embrace the if you are, if you have a problem with psychological influence, you shouldn't be marketing. You shouldn't be in branding, marketing, or advertising. You can do design innovation. Sure. But yeah, if you really want to be good at something, I think you have to change the purpose, why you're doing it and not look so much at the ability to.
00:20:12:09 - 00:20:33:15
Unknown
I'm really good at what I do, apparently. Yeah. But if I, if I wanted to become, like, I identify with villains in movies. Not because of the, by the way, just because they're always challenging what would be called considered safe and normal. They're they're ones innovating. We have that anyway to take this out. Right. This is this is that.
00:20:33:17 - 00:20:56:09
Unknown
But I'm okay with a system. I like the big cities as much of the light nature. I just need to know what the purpose is. What am I doing with it. So for me, that's a client. The client is only want to know what are you trying to achieve? What's your objective? Your ability to achieve that. And we can discuss that ability if you don't, if you can't do it and you know, all at once we can discuss that.
00:20:56:09 - 00:21:29:09
Unknown
But yeah, that's Brian for me, it's about such psychological influence. Everything else is a functional asset of that influence. So what in your creative journey kind of kind of led you to that belief? And then I would love to know, like on a client side because, you know, as a, as a brand strategist myself, it does seem like one of the most difficult barriers you can experience is to walk in and to try to help someone find the true soul of a business that they've already built and are invested in and are kind of questioning, you know, why?
00:21:29:09 - 00:21:55:12
Unknown
Why it's not not working. So, I mean, in your design journey, what was like were there key turning points that really helped you, you know, evolve and building confidence and really like, you know, start to like, how do you start to show your clients the value of really finding their soul and the impact of that and navigate that in a way that, I guess, overcomes any sort of ego that they have, or hesitancy that they have to move.
00:21:55:12 - 00:22:23:17
Unknown
Because I feel like that's that's like your superpower. I've been told something similar in different words. We call it corporate engine. Probably just I would call it the fix. And I think it's because I, I just, I, I finally, I just, I'm starting to learn the function of business and people and everything from politics to business to entertainment.
00:22:23:19 - 00:22:56:15
Unknown
It's all human. If you understand human desire and needs and psychology and, you know, brain works and some things, it changes how you do business and it can be to your benefit earlier than what kind of person you are. But the client, the client, the ego. James Baldwin said it best. I think, is the way to have a thing is, if I remember correctly, to have a conversation with someone, you have to reveal yourself.
00:22:56:17 - 00:23:31:18
Unknown
So what we failed to do and society because we misinterpret the real intention behind the word kindness, what we do is we don't know the history of the word kindness. So we we're to nice. We don't set up boundaries and rules of engagement. We try to fix the things after I was betrayed. And, so this is how I thought I was betrayed by my professional and personal life.
00:23:31:20 - 00:23:57:15
Unknown
Realizing. No, I betrayed myself. I allow this to happen. Whoever hurt me, you're accountable for that. That's fine. I'm not removing that from you. But I allow that to happen. So to have a great client experience, we have to stop being nice. My job is not to make the client necessarily happy, is is to make them. Thank me at the end of it that I did help them.
00:23:57:17 - 00:24:22:04
Unknown
But if I'm trying to make the experience happy means I'm not doing my job, means that they're not. I'm not telling them. I'm not being honest and truthful. I'm not. I'm not saying, hey, this is my boundary. This is my rules. You know, Even a signed, stupid sign. Oh, oh. Prices of. What are you what you.
00:24:22:05 - 00:24:40:12
Unknown
What's the cost if you do it was the cost invade the way it was the cut. That's not that advantage. That's you selling yourself out right? I don't want that. I don't want to pay a client. I know what the point is. Don't get me wrong. I understand the sign. I'm just saying, why would I pay the client more money to do it themselves?
00:24:40:12 - 00:25:02:19
Unknown
Why not? I take that money and just do. It means that you have to decide. Why are you doing this thing with this person? Is it a real client? Know? Is it just the real conversation? So I need to know what the client, who the client is, and then you know who I am. So how is your confidence like, in the same vein of the how is how is that allowed you to say no more confidently?
00:25:02:19 - 00:25:23:11
Unknown
Because I feel like, you know, as creatives, especially in the beginning stages, it's like this cycle of devalue yourself, chase whatever, like, you know, go through it. And as someone who personally went through that, I know that creates such like an anxious cycle of, well, now who am I now? I'm being known for things that I don't want to be known for, and then it becomes harder.
00:25:23:11 - 00:26:02:20
Unknown
But it seems like No Boundaries have been a reoccurring theme in our podcast, so maybe that's a great place to start is, you know, like, what are solid boundaries for you that are personally important? Do you have any boundaries that you feel, you know, should kind of be a standard in the industry? And, just really like, like how has your confidence allowed you to say no and still just, you know, you're so successful, so clearly it's led to to amazing things still, you know, like conferences understand experiencing and understand that word kindness, where I no longer feel guilty about saying no.
00:26:02:22 - 00:26:33:06
Unknown
Yeah, I still have. What am I really losing? So that's confidence. I don't have the curse of you show, so I apologize. Oh, no. Feel free. Yeah, I call it the fucking position because I saw that movie with John Goodman vocabulary. And I said, you are brilliant. And although what he said. But as anyone's, what I'm really saying is your confidence is the removal of feelings.
00:26:33:08 - 00:27:02:09
Unknown
I do not feel any obligation. I don't I don't feel any loyalty. Or I don't feel compelled to feel loyalty to any group of people. But when I find a group of people that are. Welcoming the difference between manners and etiquette, I treasure it. I don't need friendship. I don't need, But I value friendship. And I love because love, friendship builds trust.
00:27:02:11 - 00:27:25:01
Unknown
So my next girlfriend have to have been alone for a very long time. Yeah. So that's kind of the point. It's it's it's, it's your confidence removal guilt where I do not need to feel bad about myself because I don't like what you're saying. I don't like what his experience is. I can get up and walk away.
00:27:25:03 - 00:27:48:14
Unknown
Yeah, but if I exuberantly effort and time, that would have to have been discussed officially as the business agreement. So, yeah. Pay me when I'm leaving. Thank me for what I've done, but I'm leaving. Or let's let's just cut the losses and walk away. But I don't need to feel guilty because I don't like something I don't to take all the boxes.
00:27:48:14 - 00:28:06:21
Unknown
I don't have to agree with every single thing I can say. I like three of these and this is this is everything. This is the like I'm saying, life and work is everything. I can like three out of these ten things and I I'm done. You can take the bonus seven, but don't make me feel bad because I don't agree with you.
00:28:06:23 - 00:28:47:23
Unknown
Yeah, right. So if your client does the same thing, that's my boundary. I don't I've told you what I think is the best way to go. Feel free to ask me a conversation about that. But if you only have so much time before I say, look, if you want to try something else, go to somebody else. Yeah, but, if I, if I'm, if I'm a professional consultant and I'm supposed to help people, their businesses, then I should be able to be honest and say, I don't know how to help you or this is what I think you should do, or let's explore this up, this problem some more.
00:28:48:01 - 00:29:09:10
Unknown
But then you're in a rush because, you know, have a lot of money and a lot of time. And I'm like, well, I don't want this, you know? Yeah. And and, you know, somebody recommended you like, tell them, thank you. That's it. You know, so boundaries, kindness, the history of the word kindness is the problem. It's royalty.
00:29:09:12 - 00:29:31:01
Unknown
So, so globally, we're we're we've converted that word into something benevolent, and it's nice and everything. But the history of the word kindness is from the word kin. So if you and I were from the same king, then I could feel compassion for you. I understood you, you understood me. The peasants were not royalty. A royalty showed each other kindness, but not the peasants.
00:29:31:03 - 00:29:54:07
Unknown
And we think peasants means they didn't brook anybody. Farmers, really? But anyway, So anybody outside of that circle, they could not relate to them. So they did not show that kindness. That's why, I guess Robin Hood was such a revolutionary at that. And all these kings who did things differently right than I guess. Over time we started to see people, human beings as one kin.
00:29:54:08 - 00:30:18:12
Unknown
But do you not find it difficult? The more we speak about what the health and kindness people get worse. Is ironic, isn't it? Because our interpretation of kindness is not real. It's not accurate. It's not. We don't understand the word. So we're using it out in the, right and wrong, using inappropriate and inappropriate. There's no, you know, it's just when do I use the word kindness.
00:30:18:14 - 00:30:49:06
Unknown
Loving kindness. Love is from trust I do, I trust I'm just using these words I don't know I don't build trust to the clients. I need to express kindness to them because I understand them. Understand both of us have to have an understanding of each other. So we came together in the first place. All right. Yeah. Or I can just go to the commodity approach and try, which would never work, try and make my service into a commodity and do an out of card thing and, you know, this is for an hour or two hours, whatever.
00:30:49:08 - 00:31:14:16
Unknown
That doesn't build trust. That's there. No trust being built through that. That's just me trying to calculate how much I can do to get $100, where I could just say, okay, I could probably do one person this month and get more than $100 because I really love them. Yeah, that's work man. Personal life. That's everything. That's a great perspective.
00:31:14:16 - 00:31:35:21
Unknown
And it kind of it shows how much of a loving thing kindness is not just to oneself but to your client. You know, it's like it's respect for yourself, but you're also not wasting time like you're moving forward. You're being honest and upfront and, no, that's really beautiful to to learn. Like the origin of that and the meaning.
00:31:35:21 - 00:31:56:02
Unknown
I definitely feel like communicating in general, so many terms that we use, like authenticity, things like that. They're like they're so diluted, you know, and we just we throw them around without realizing that, you know, there are boundaries within those things. And it's not a completely selfless thing. It's not a completely you just give everything that you have.
00:31:56:02 - 00:32:21:09
Unknown
Like there there is a balance and there always does need to be, you know, a boundary or at least an understanding. So that's I mean, that's super powerful. And I think something that we need to spend more time on, not just as designers and creatives, but as a society, you know, to understand each other. So and so with your your focus, your entire career, being on like creativity with impact.
00:32:21:11 - 00:32:42:12
Unknown
I mean, can you kind of take us through your creative journey? You know, how you've pivoted your brand with the aim on leaving a lasting impact and really like what that what that means to you, like the power of the narratives and the designs and the services that you're you're offering, like what you hope they, they bring about?
00:32:42:14 - 00:33:11:22
Unknown
I suppose I think I think my impact is still trying to be the architect that got murdered. Yeah, that's a strong goal. Yeah, that, I don't know. I can never know, but I'm aiming to, As a 12 years old. Sorry, I, I saw my father in his office. He was doing, logo design, and I grew JC and a piece of paper.
00:33:11:22 - 00:33:14:23
Unknown
That's when I did.
00:33:15:01 - 00:33:50:17
Unknown
And I think that just kind of dictated my professional life. I, to this day, still being used because as I, I knew exactly what I wanted to do then and then slowly. Now all this I come for is for being form that I'm trying to form. It and it. I realize it has nothing to do with, with, with, with work or my personal life is really it's just, it's like when I leave what's left behind or I don't care what it is about what's left behind.
00:33:50:17 - 00:34:33:14
Unknown
Like, I don't need to be remembered, necessarily, but did I make a lot of people happy? You know that, Sorry. Did I did I make people happy? Right. You know, if that's the gift you give, that's, like, that is the most powerful thing that you could give somebody, right? In this day and age that we we live in those moments of happiness that are deep and like, like feeling are so right mattered, you know, and so short lived.
00:34:33:14 - 00:34:55:22
Unknown
Yeah. If it's it's the thing, it's then, you know, just one thing you could do with, you know, this one, this one person is they maybe, I don't know, but along your way, the impact of that, it's supposed to, then talk about you. I guess they'll say that person helped me. I usually have for you day.
00:34:56:00 - 00:35:19:01
Unknown
You know, let's say that guy helped me. And then you hear a lot of people start saying the same thing, right? Yeah, that makes sense. No, it's, I mean, it's kind of like when you were talking about Civil War and how the thing that you're scared of is the tangible reality of that ripple effect and how, you know, it's something that you're so unconscious of how one small act could impact and lead up to something huge.
00:35:19:01 - 00:35:37:08
Unknown
And it, you know, it's scary to think of that. On the negative side. But when we when we think of the beautiful side of that, like it's such a motivation and inspiration and I mean, like, I know right now just on LinkedIn alone, you've got, you know, 13, 14,000 people following you. You've got two decades of a design career, you know, behind you.
00:35:37:08 - 00:36:06:19
Unknown
It's like to to consider those little ripples and how they're compounding and how they're adding up and how they're, you know, just off on their own journeys to every part of the world. Like, we truly have no idea how far reaching our story and our words and our, you know, commitment to creating impact. Impact goes. Yeah. No, I agree, I, I was invited to be a design judge because of the things I wrote and reviewing and critiquing design.
00:36:06:19 - 00:36:31:02
Unknown
And I write my article is and then other people interviewed me as well. I guess that was shared. Yeah. And I think over all my achievements, it was that it was that was, that was that was the life, I guess, most valuable life for me, valuable professional achievement, responsibility that comes with being a designer. And I'm not judging.
00:36:31:02 - 00:37:00:20
Unknown
There's still esthetic things. I'm literally looking at things from these global brands, tangible things and, good intentions behind them. And then you realize people are trying to do good in the world, and they're trying, but they're they're business. And we need to understand how business works. I know that there are people there that are trying to do something good, but there's still business, and we judge them and we talk about corporations and all these things.
00:37:00:21 - 00:37:19:01
Unknown
And I'm thinking, so what's the alternative? I like to trade off. I like I can trade off, I don't get I'm solutions somersaults, you know, solutions. I like trade offs. But it's more than politics maybe. But I think in the play they're like what's the what's the what's the alternative to not having corporations? I'm like, corporations really are the ones who.
00:37:19:01 - 00:37:46:18
Unknown
And these are the why change minds people, right? Brands are people. I'm like, you said this. It's these little things, these ripples. And I guess that's all I care about in terms of impact. That's muzzle velocity, which is an article I read from Dave Shrimp. And he really spoke about the impact of these things. If you become part of a conversation, whether it's good or bad, you're dominating it.
00:37:46:20 - 00:38:09:16
Unknown
Been that's the velocity of whatever you said or whatever you're doing. You're in the narrative, you're country, you're controlling the context, and the perception is so you control the perception. So then the narrative. So for things I've observed happened in a conversation. Right. Typical conversation. It's a it's facts is shared opinions challenge facts because opinions are restricted.
00:38:09:16 - 00:38:34:07
Unknown
I mean there is their belief system that we've built and we can extract ourselves from that to look at it. All right. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Until the facts are changed. It's just the fact you can change it, right? But the opinions are changing. So we have to create a narrative which is a narrative error to support that belief system, that opinion set of tastes and narratives.
00:38:34:09 - 00:38:51:09
Unknown
It is also what we. So we need a conversation or debate answer. We need to think about what we are telling you to and what is saying. Are you trying to convince them of something, or are you just trying to share something? If I'm sharing something, then I've done that. Then I'm I'm leaving. But if I'm trying to convince you, then I've obviously chosen.
00:38:51:09 - 00:39:14:18
Unknown
I made a conscious decision to waste my time. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, right. And that's what these politicians and business owners and people who that's what they do. They're trying to convince you, like, you know, they could do it a different way. But again, I'm not trying to save the world. I love to, but human nature would not allow me to do that.
00:39:14:20 - 00:39:42:18
Unknown
I can try sharing and it may happen. And then when I pass away, suddenly remember me. That's fine. The impact is the size of this is the the velocity of the bullet they fired. What did I say the both sides about? What's that being saying? Meaningful thing. That's so much about things. I'm forever. It's about learning to not say everything that's on your mind.
00:39:42:20 - 00:40:06:14
Unknown
Yeah, right. How you speak. So speak better. Think differently. You know, do we have to make a complicated ten sheets of paper? No, we don't have to, but we have. We're forced to do that because it looks like we've been useful. Yeah. Yeah it does. Yeah, I could say the same thing in less words. And you understand me?
00:40:06:16 - 00:40:41:06
Unknown
Yes. Right. But you you are going to force me to do more because you can. I take that to people, their bosses. Right. Because they're also going to want more at the client and the system. And this is this whole thing. And I'm like, oh, we just stop it, just be directed honest. And, you know, kind. Okay, this so I mean, like in that vein and I know this might be, a unique discussion for most of us because you are like, you just exude confidence, like you have had the vision and you have moved forward with it.
00:40:41:06 - 00:41:07:02
Unknown
And just a very courageous manner for creatives who might be struggling to, you know, reach that same level where, you know, if you're in a pitch, you're spilling everything, or you're just worried about how you speak, like, have you do you have any like mindfulness practices? Do you have any communication strategies that work? Or how do we start to build up, you know, just a fraction of the confidence that you have when it comes to client interactions.
00:41:07:04 - 00:41:38:01
Unknown
And you you have to I think. So I have six things. I'm sure you've heard that I've shared the before. It's, something, I think if you as is, is understanding and acknowledging that you're a person. Equals just like the product of the whole experiencing the product thing. So stop looking at yourself as this you're a quality product.
00:41:38:03 - 00:42:02:13
Unknown
You're going to create that experience around you. You're going to create the experience that nobody. What are the rules to access? What's how do I lead people access you the first. So you have to acknowledge yourself. Is that something worthy of time and and and other people's time and your time and forgive yourself. So six things discipline. Discipline.
00:42:02:14 - 00:42:23:08
Unknown
What we do. So become good at what you do. And I will constantly be going. That's that's your life's work. Whatever it is, you're going to be constantly developing that. The more you do that, then you're building confidence in your skill. So your skill builds confidence in you as a person because now you you know, you can do something.
00:42:23:09 - 00:42:54:20
Unknown
There's no argument there. You're good at it. Patience, patience is a very important thing to practice patience with yourself and other people. Patience means you wait for results. You do not rush them. Be a confidence that was talked about the action. Take an action. Leave it. Don't interfere with it. So your discipline, your confidence, you take an action.
00:42:54:22 - 00:43:28:22
Unknown
Be patient. You learn. The third one would be, kindness. Kindness to yourself and other people. Kindness. Me needing based on a useful tool. You understanding that. You understand yourself and the person that you're dealing with. You also understand them and then what they do, there has to be some kind of understanding. And that's why kindnesses you're like, can we be metaphorical at this point?
00:43:28:22 - 00:43:57:06
Unknown
Cuz I think historically, what literally can that was that was just each other as can. Right. We're the same. The fourth one is acceptance. Accept that. Accept where you are. Accept what's happening. Accept that there is something you can change. Maybe not now. I don't have everybody or something to kind of change. Accept that may have failed.
00:43:57:08 - 00:44:24:07
Unknown
I need to be myself about this. Accept that there's no Monday. Tuesday. There. No days in a week. And once a year. It's just the sun rising, the sun going down. So every time it comes up is an day for you to do a try again. You've never lived. Today is never happened. Routines are good. But don't be a clock on a wall where you're moving and going nowhere right?
00:44:24:09 - 00:44:54:11
Unknown
That's a good metaphor. I heard of a song some years ago, so acceptance. Accept that you need time to heal or accept that you time to rebuild. Accept that people will be who they are and you be who you are. Yeah. So acceptance. That's the fourth thing. The practice every day. Well everything okay. Because that gave me goosebumps literally.
00:44:54:11 - 00:45:17:15
Unknown
I mean, as someone who's coming out of a healing process right now, it's it's like super powerful, you know? So I'm going to heal quickly and like, no, we just have to walk through that shitty door and then do it a room and come out the other side differently. Yeah. So it's but let me get to that. So the fifth one is forgiveness.
00:45:17:17 - 00:45:53:21
Unknown
Forgive yourself, forgive others. Forgive us. Forgive. Forgive is healing. And let go. That's the lesson. When you get through all that, you can let go. You can let go with you. Do all of that when that is happen. That's a beautiful process. It's so hard to work through, but I. I love that you're showing up as a testament to the proof of what that brings you, because we, especially when we're in those scenarios where things are chaotic or the pain is real or it's fresh, you know, we lose sight of the other side of that.
00:45:53:21 - 00:46:20:17
Unknown
And we do. We try to start rushing through these steps, you know, and it running away or rushing through is not the same as healing. And yeah, the results from those two different paths are extremely different things. And the last three is really where I think the change happens. Once you get the acceptance. Because not it's not, it's not like things that you like the steps you go up.
00:46:20:19 - 00:46:43:02
Unknown
It's, it's it's a circle circle a feedback loop. You've been doing this for the whole life that we have to practice it every day. Right. And it's work. It's everything is it's learning how to. I can choose to react to an offense or not. I don't have to react. I can choose to, you know, or my offender.
00:46:43:04 - 00:47:06:15
Unknown
I think it was a in a way, because, you know, I can choose that. I can choose the experience I every day. But because I feel this compulsion to respond to everything and comment on everything, it changes my experience. But I can wake up every day and say, well, I want to have a good day today and the moment something comes to this that that was like, no, thank you.
00:47:06:17 - 00:47:32:04
Unknown
You know, I go for coffee and for every day. Nice. And that's just what I do. That's just my routine. And I love it. I have, like, more coffee. You know, is being selective. Selective with their clients. Just like you, with your friends. The intense, the things you don't want to be a part of, like.
00:47:32:06 - 00:48:01:03
Unknown
No, you know, she'll give that to somebody else. I'm not interested. What are you missing out? Really? If nothing really matters, what are you missing out? Right. And why are you torturing yourself? Because, like, you know, after the first experience, it's like, you know what you're headed to. But sometimes, you know, we're just glutton for punishment and and and takes with you those learning lessons to really understand, like, I would rather pass this up and maybe suffer for another day or two or week or so and then like, find something that aligns.
00:48:01:03 - 00:48:22:20
Unknown
Then, you know, just kill my soul because that that impact is far reaching. And generally, those are the projects that do start to subtly leak into our personal lives and start to affect everything else because we're we're feeling undervalued, we're feeling very stressed, we're feeling this conflict. And even the best job that we do is not going to be like, fulfilling or really meaningful on that personal level.
00:48:22:23 - 00:48:45:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. It's, let's make it. Maybe we could simplify it a little bit in terms of work for, some of you, you know, I don't know what age groups are in the audience. I just felt I wanted to be very intellectual. So sometimes I try to, like, be told. So simple. Such a simple thing to use is,
00:48:46:01 - 00:48:50:08
Unknown
If a freelancer is doing work.
00:48:50:10 - 00:49:15:01
Unknown
The moment they compromise on the first price they gave that less, there would be less power there. Lost everything. Okay, just walk away or just accept the terms of the client at that point. Right. You've lost. So. But this is what discipline is about. This is what they these practicing these things about. It's it's it's helping your mind.
00:49:15:03 - 00:49:35:03
Unknown
Your mind changes and your brain changes I understand science, so if your brain physically changes when you experience something, you need knowledge, right. So your mind changes your mind the tangible. But your mind apparently changes from physical change. So that means everything you're doing, the physical impacts.
00:49:35:05 - 00:49:57:21
Unknown
Affects the intangible value or experience of who you are. So to be confident people messaged me on LinkedIn, you'd be surprised what message I get out like that about prices. How do I do this in that right? Yeah, I don't want to do anything for free, so I helps them to like, like if I go any further. Yeah, I want to be, you know.
00:49:58:03 - 00:50:21:21
Unknown
Yeah. But like it comes down to what I realize is you just have no confidence. So you're asking me, and it's okay. I've been there. But you need to start. I've been. There's no G.P.S. for this. There's no savior. Just to start. Just choose to do something different or you're going to get the same results, okay? Just choose to do something different.
00:50:21:21 - 00:50:45:02
Unknown
So if your price is X amount of money, I don't care. It's an hour. I don't do hourly being. But I'm curious to know just stand up behind where you say don't compromise with it. You're compromising because you are either fearful of missing out on something or you're in a desperate situation, which is a reality for a lot of us.
00:50:45:02 - 00:51:06:16
Unknown
We've been there and you have to make a choice. And you're you're afraid of the the your gut tells you a choice to make what you're afraid because you don't the right. I want to see you go with a safer one, which is, oh, let's not lose this client right now. Let's get this client. But it. If you were literally starving, that's how you, like hungry?
00:51:06:18 - 00:51:28:14
Unknown
Yeah. You have to look at everything that you make. Is that if I was hungry, what did decision make here? Even if food was being offered to me, like, who's giving me that? That's how my brain works. Who's giving that to me? Right? Well, yeah. Right. Can I endure longer? Probably. You know, I don't know who's going to coming in, but maybe.
00:51:28:16 - 00:52:04:01
Unknown
Right. Because it comes down to. Your decisions, being accountable, owning your decisions. And this extreme version of that is, this is what I mean, that if you position this is where do you can say that? It means that you have nothing left to lose or you or if you lose everything, you don't care? I don't know, but it's a great, powerful place to be in your life when you have that, and I think, I think that's, that's what, that's where the confidence is.
00:52:04:01 - 00:52:28:03
Unknown
Sort of things that I've, shared was that's why they're both. If you practice them everyday, then your brain starts to change perspective, your perception. Your mindset is, you know, growth starts happening. Oh, you're seeing the changes like exercise. You don't see the results immediately. But when you see the results, I promise you. Well, I do, but I know people who do have square with me when they see it.
00:52:28:05 - 00:52:52:20
Unknown
They're like, wow, they never stop. That was vanity. Yeah. Now look at it. Embarrassed, right. So this is what practice does. Or this in perfect practice practice, practice anyways anyone's you know, but it's just about, doing, doing, doing the things that are beneficial for once. Does this benefit me? I don't have a family alone. You have a family.
00:52:52:20 - 00:53:16:01
Unknown
Does this benefit us? How about is this? Can I make my family feel some pain for a while to get this? They will thank me later. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. These are. This is the critical decisions. A desperate person makes two decisions. One is really bad or one is really great. But chances are the one that's really great, they'll never see the result until way down the road.
00:53:16:03 - 00:53:40:06
Unknown
And that's what the temptation is for. The other one is like, oh, this is easy and quick, right? You know, so these are this is a critical thinking is this. And they do the same decline. Do you have the assess analyze their businesses, who they are. You have to make prescriptions after your diagnosis. Right. You don't just get up and say, yeah, I can help you $100 an hour.
00:53:40:08 - 00:54:06:06
Unknown
You don't need. Oh, I have like this three package thing here. You can get this and that and that. What is digital marketing know is marketing. Digital is the strategy or the the, the methodology we're going to use for you. But recursively traditional is just marketing. There's no digital marketing in traditional marketing, right. What's the strategy? Develop a strategy and develop your actionable right.
00:54:06:07 - 00:54:31:20
Unknown
What's the action here? What's your objective right. What's your pain threshold? What are you trying to achieve? What was your pain threshold. You know, can you take this risk. Those are questions you ask as a professional. That's a super powerful question. I don't think I've ever asked that in that way, but I think that that's the thing that definitely resonates with, you both on a human and like a personal level, you know, it's like maybe the business can take some.
00:54:31:20 - 00:54:54:00
Unknown
I don't know how much I can take, though. Right. Yeah, yeah. And I learned that from a divorce lawyer. Like, what's the objective, man? Yeah. What's the result you're looking for? What's your pain threshold? I added the third one. What's your ability to achieve that thing? Yeah. So that means I've looked at your appetite for risk. The only a risky business is a brain.
00:54:54:00 - 00:55:10:14
Unknown
College made that point, and I really like that. You made a point. I say I thought about risk, but it is important to understand people don't want to risk their business. That's what I'm. That's not what I mean by taking a risk. What I mean by taking a risk is what I mean. What is your ability? Your appetite for risk is the ability to do it.
00:55:10:14 - 00:55:26:22
Unknown
So you have you have the ability financial ability to say, okay, well, if I lose, it's not too bad. This is what I can lose. That's how you talk to clients about risk. You don't just tell if they got risk their money. Right? Yeah, I know people are doing that. No you don't, you can't. You're a consultant. What do you know?
00:55:26:22 - 00:55:48:00
Unknown
You don't run a business. You don't go up displays and tell them how to run a business. No. Yeah. This is what I'm trying to achieve. So, Okay, well, this is what is going to probably cost you to do that. So, you know, is that something that you can take on? But they're trying to be bold and different business owners.
00:55:48:04 - 00:56:16:00
Unknown
But don't worry, understand? They're trying to be a little different there. But it's easy to stay where they are sometimes because they don't know how to do that. Is your job as a consultant? That's also what your job is. All right. So part of my I wanted to drop this in a little bit, please do I, I don't I don't normally do this because I have good bad compliments receiving them, but, I would have been Chris Stone, Brian Collins there.
00:56:16:00 - 00:56:40:04
Unknown
Those two reached out to me in a very dark time. Time. But it was mentioning way back. Yeah. And it said something to me that helped. So to that point, I say, also try and surround yourself with people actually give a fuck, you know. Yeah. Will say the right things to do.
00:56:40:06 - 00:57:05:07
Unknown
I guess it's all post. And they all reached out to me, so I guess it's all about it was, you got a lot of a lot of lovers of Crystal in this room, too, and I'm sure that we're all probably right. That was not on camera. We're probably looking at Brian Collins right now and adding on, but no, they they, I mean, it's it's I guess I was trying to avoid that, but maybe they'll be fine with it.
00:57:05:09 - 00:57:34:00
Unknown
They, I will mention them because of their positions and their notoriety. I guess some people know that it happens at all levels where, yeah, people actually can reach out to you. And I think it's about revealing itself, but not me is a two ball number to the point where the wrong people do. But vulnerability. That was something Brian discussed and I discussed and Christy reminded me of the light at the end of the tunnel.
00:57:34:02 - 00:57:55:05
Unknown
You know, I've seen, you know, I see it. You don't know it's going to end, but it does. Pain. Pain is the same thing. I say it the treat, the cause that a symptom. So I tell you were off line. Yeah. That light because that that's what he was he shared with me and that's I guess that's what I'm doing is like I stayed long enough to find out.
00:57:55:10 - 00:58:24:17
Unknown
People see the light coming up. But, you know, I think you have to review yourself professionally and personally for people to actually, they want to have the conversation with you. Right? They're they they want to know more and intrigue their whatever mysteries they're they want to know what's behind it. And if you do the right work and right, it's relatively you do good work, then they'll reach out to you.
00:58:24:17 - 00:58:50:13
Unknown
So you don't have to do that horrible sales approach. Yeah. You know. Yeah. But if your work is everything, like the the people you surround yourself with can open more opportunities than, yeah, any amount of talent really. Can you know and like family I have the time my family. Yeah. If anybody's been there for me, it's been my family I always have.
00:58:50:17 - 00:59:14:07
Unknown
So yeah, I know it's not easy for people server cutting you. I just thought about it. It's not easy for a lot of people. I'm also speaking from a place of privilege. So there's that where I was allowed time to explore this. You know, there's times that, you know, working and I didn't have to. I got my family help me.
00:59:14:09 - 00:59:44:18
Unknown
Thankfully, I was allowed time and privilege to explore and look and figure out what's going on. I feel absolutely empathy for people who can't do that. Yeah. But still everything I believe, everything I said, I believe in, everything I've shared is about finding the way to do it. Even if you don't have that ability or privilege, just find a way to do those things and it will be better.
00:59:44:20 - 01:00:08:05
Unknown
And it's not like my family is giving me money every day or whatever. I mean, they supported me in regarding encouragement. I still had to go and do my, my own, ways of, you know, whether it's a small gig or whatever, survival is what you do, and then you get back to your position. But survival is always going to be, you know, that's different.
01:00:08:07 - 01:00:30:07
Unknown
But you need to have people around you to encourage you have them and then and that make you feel bad or horrible about yourself. Thank you. Discuss the numerous figures that I've made and the network figures that I will, and then numbers opportunities. And not every opportunity, not every offer is an opportunity. Anyway, I could talk about all that, but it doesn't matter.
01:00:30:09 - 01:00:56:12
Unknown
We're all in our journey. We're all. We're all it is that. Why was it that it was something you have to just get up and say, I'm leaving. This. Is that. Yeah. Or why beat somebody down when they're down? You know, just choose to be different. My guess is the be theme here, you know? I mean, that's that's where confidence begins.
01:00:56:12 - 01:01:23:07
Unknown
And that is what changes everything. Like stepping into your true self in a confident manner is what starts to attract the opportunity that are meant for you. And, I think that was a powerful way to bring the conversation full circle. And what what I would like to end today's episode with is, you know, you've you've gone through the gates of hell, you're coming out the other side, you've got a great support network, you've got this powerful hope and vision for the next couple of years.
01:01:23:09 - 01:01:53:04
Unknown
What does that look like for you? And then in the meantime, I mean, where can we find you? How can we how can we support you throughout this journey? Probably have a website back up at some point, but for now, it's the big four LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Yeah, yeah. So, I'm on threads as well and like threads, I like that I can do little captions there.
01:01:53:10 - 01:02:21:14
Unknown
So my threads, but it's fine. Outside of that, it's oh medium. I write on medium under Philadelphia. And, the future for me as, I was told based on some kind of, I don't know, the conversation with a friend of mine, but he's a very benevolent creature. And he said, you're searching for freedom and meaning.
01:02:21:16 - 01:02:47:23
Unknown
So that's my future. Well, freedom and meaning. I live in a bubble. So everything that I do is in there, and I need to be very selective with who I let in to participate in it. But the freedom for me to discriminate against what I don't want to do, and that people see that word again, we should be able to discriminate.
01:02:47:23 - 01:03:18:22
Unknown
But when we chose to discriminate against people, so maybe that's the wrong word for me to use. It is I this climate as well? Freedom to, to The freedom, freedom to live and work on something that is a lot larger than me. Significantly larger than me. Yeah, I like that to be. And design innovation. You know, something in packaging, the future of packaging.
01:03:18:22 - 01:03:52:06
Unknown
Hopefully that's what would be happy doing. And the meaning of life is. As I said to me is use is not something we search for. We are doing it every day. We wake up. That's the clarity I've had. So, you know, that's meaning every day you wake up, you've created meaning. That's it. That's my future. That is such a powerful future.
01:03:52:06 - 01:04:09:17
Unknown
And I love that you're leaving yourself open to just moving through it, and especially with the framework that you gave us of, you know, disciplining, especially the patience, you know, that is, I feel like you were speaking to me directly when we were talking about patience. But it is the hardest thing to evolve in there, right? Yeah.
01:04:09:19 - 01:04:32:15
Unknown
But but yeah. No, to, to really just understand the power of your passion. And I think that. Yeah, definitely from, from this, interaction, this conversation and just keeping in mind that ripple effect and just how expansive it can be and how many people it can touch and how many things it can influence is just amazing. So, I'm just happy to leave something valuable.
01:04:32:15 - 01:04:54:02
Unknown
I think. Otherwise I'm a bad brand experience. I'm. Yeah. You know, happiness is a is a great legacy to leave. I mean, that is was one of the most powerful things that anyone could leave. So definitely on the right course. We're excited to see where the journey takes you. And I sincerely appreciate your time. I know that you're traveling around.
01:04:54:02 - 01:05:23:11
Unknown
I know that you're juggling multiple time zones like it's it's so good to connect with you. I've always appreciated your support in previous episodes. And, you know, our conversations after, after our guests have stepped out and now to be able to explore your journey and to have taken the last, you know, couple of weeks to really delve into it, you know, 100% you have been such an inspiration to me, and I am I'm grateful to be connected and, so appreciative of the motivation and the inspirational words from today.
01:05:23:12 - 01:05:52:13
Unknown
So I'm really, grateful. And, and I have your charity effort. We're going through that research. Yeah, my website's down. And so I don't, you know, I have saved, but I didn't really put them in there. But, I thank you for having me on. Of course. You know, and understand, and I think it's some time ago, I think had an I had a conversation with success is constantly is a constant everyday thing.
01:05:52:13 - 01:06:24:11
Unknown
You you know, once you're achieving things, you're doing it being successful. It's not financial. Financial. I've had that. But it's not that. It's it's it's people like to feel needed and acknowledge they want to be valuable, feel valuable. And I think if you don't feel valuable, you're not being successful in as a person because you're in the wrong rooms and you would be better to yourself, man, go where you're wanted or you needed.
01:06:24:13 - 01:06:42:10
Unknown
It can't be needed, but go where you wanted. Oh, that's okay. Everyone will be much happier. Like go with the people who want you around and they probably. Yeah. Life support. For a reason, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, man. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm very excited to see the ripple effect from this episode and what it does.
01:06:42:10 - 01:07:01:06
Unknown
I mean, I know that it is something that everyone struggles with. This is an episode. You know, five years ago, I would have appreciated and probably been in tears over because it was my exact journey, you know, at that time, and like I said, just to see the example that you're setting in your creative journey, it's just like, it's amazing to.
01:07:01:06 - 01:07:22:15
Unknown
Sorry. Yeah. I just realized, turn on the power bar. Well, I was like, you're good. I was going to turn it. No, no. Yeah, we're all good, but, Yeah. No, Philip, I want to be respectful of your time. I'm really, appreciative of you joining us for. For episode 36. Definitely. I hope that you joined us for a few more episodes.
01:07:22:15 - 01:07:46:22
Unknown
You know, for guests or some behind the scenes conversation. And then, you know, I'd love to love to check in with you a few months down the road just to see where this new journey of, you know, just freedom and ability and actually, you. Yeah. Badass. Fine. Well, you see me posting anyway. Most likely, but, yeah, feel free to check in.
01:07:47:00 - 01:08:12:20
Unknown
I, you know what? I forgot to mention what? The actual requested feature I'm trying to be Anthony Bourdain by industry. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, that's that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, definitely a fan. Definitely someone who thrived on connection and just being human. You know, I mean, and one of the most powerful quotes that, that I think I've heard from you in your recent episodes was design is everything, design is our life is design.
01:08:12:20 - 01:08:36:23
Unknown
The world experience is design. So no, really, even stepping into that creative mindset and confidently bringing it into all aspects of our life, you know, just makes makes such a difference. So absolutely. Yeah. But, all right. Well, and with this, we will, we'll tune out. Thank you, everyone so much for joining us. Revisited 36 of The Developing Life featuring Philip Jay Clayton.
01:08:37:01 - 01:08:55:06
Unknown
We'll have a replay available soon after. If you'd like to rewatch and take notes or, you know, just spend some time with some of the the amazing points that were made throughout this discussion. So, Philip, we'll make sure that in our episode description, we've got all of the links for people to be able to connect with you and to continue to support you.
01:08:55:08 - 01:09:03:23
Unknown
And until next time, thank you. Thank you for joining us, and I wish you the absolute best in your creative journey. Thank you so much for.
Unknown
Welcome to the Developing Life podcast, people. Tick tick tick.
00:00:12:13 - 00:00:57:07
Unknown
What does it take to define yourself on your own terms, especially in an industry that constantly tries to define you first find out what multidisciplinary creative Phillip Jay Clayton has to say about this as we welcome him to the Developing Life podcast with over 20 years experience in the industry, Phillip is a brand design and marketing consultant and strategic advisor known for Navigate and complex brand challenges and transforming them into strategic solutions with a commitment to authentic expression and trust over convention, Phillip has built a life and career defined by purpose motion in meaning.
00:00:57:09 - 00:01:30:10
Unknown
His journey began in the fine arts and evolved into a dynamic, career spanning advertising, marketing and brand development. Phillip has worked in a wide variety of roles, from consults, consultancy positions to collaborative projects, and is the founding partner of PJC, a hybrid brand focused business solutions agency. He's also a writer and a member of the Pack Global Leadership Awards International Judging Commission.
00:01:30:12 - 00:02:13:05
Unknown
He lends his insight and experience to help shape the global conversation around branding and design. Through it all, Philip's work and personal philosophy remain rooted in reclaiming purpose, resisting stagnation, and embracing trust as the foundation for genuine connection with our host, Devon Bowman. Philip shares his reflections on identity, legacy and the ongoing process of defining oneself outside the limitations of societal expectation and what it truly means to build a life and a body of work that refuses to be boxed in.
00:02:13:07 - 00:02:15:10
Unknown
Welcome, Philip.
00:02:15:10 - 00:02:19:10
Unknown
Thank you for having me. There was a lovely.
00:02:19:10 - 00:02:39:15
Unknown
Yeah. Thank you so much, Heather. Thank you so much for the introduction. Philip, it is amazing to see you today. Thank you so much for joining us. I personally am excited to dig into your journey today. I have to say that you are probably the most confident designer that I have ever met.
00:02:39:17 - 00:02:58:04
Unknown
I've had the privilege here lately of listening to a few of your past interviews, of witnessing your your business growth and development, and it seems like the consistent thing is like a belief in yourself. And so I'm excited to see how that's impacted your journey. Or to see if I've even got it right. You know, maybe there's some hidden struggles there that we can dive into.
00:02:58:06 - 00:03:07:14
Unknown
But before we begin, would you like to introduce yourself? I know that your journey is one of evolution. So as of today, who is Philip Jay Clayton?
00:03:08:11 - 00:03:19:05
Unknown
As of today. That's a very interesting question. I don't think I've got that long before. Okay. Today, is,
00:03:19:20 - 00:03:41:18
Unknown
I'm, I'm discovered by a path of my freedom. So I'd say I am emerging. That's what I am today. I am emerging from what I described as a cave. Yeah. Maybe some kind of hell. A journey, I mean, man, yeah, but what do you want to do? You want to talk about that a little bit?
00:03:41:18 - 00:04:04:22
Unknown
Because I've, I've followed you from from Covid until now, especially. And just seeing how, I guess, intelligent and how curated you were about observing both sides of the impact of that. You know that there's a good and there is a bad, and that we will emerge from it. I mean, as the as the hell that you're emerging from, from the past few years.
00:04:04:22 - 00:04:35:04
Unknown
Is it more of a recent thing or can you describe it a little bit for us? I'd say this is my this is the five year part of what began, before Covid for me. Covid shut me violently into that corner, and I had to figure out how to go forward from, if you could imagine a lot of things happening all at once, externally and internally, and then you're left with decisions to make.
00:04:35:06 - 00:04:59:23
Unknown
In my situation, I was forced, for the first time in my life to be alone and deal all of that without anybody to help me to eventually reach out once you get through a certain part. But, you know, what happened to me was, personal life. Things were changing rapidly. Professional life was changing then Covid. It wasn't Covid for me.
00:04:59:23 - 00:05:27:04
Unknown
It was all of that. Then Covid, and Covid was just the result that wasn't, a person, a microscope into what was happening before Covid. It doesn't reveal the only revealed the fleeting and frivolous, parts of our human behavior and how we manage time and things. Right? Yeah. And for me, once that happened, I was like, okay, well, this is it.
00:05:27:05 - 00:05:51:02
Unknown
You know, I'm going to just, go forward with this. And I thought I would have company doing that. That didn't happen. So, the personal life was really painful, I guess you say, and then you start to reevaluate what word means to me, what kind of life I wanna live, what kind of professional experience I want.
00:05:51:03 - 00:06:13:14
Unknown
And does it have to be separated? And I arrived at the gates of hell. It could have been heaven, but for me was health. And, I open I lot. It, I wrote a paragraph on a piece of paper. I said, well, hell is hell is not a place. It's a it's a state of perpetual torment. You have to choose to find your way out of it.
00:06:13:16 - 00:06:35:11
Unknown
And when you find your way out, you'll be forever changed. And I guess this would happen to me. I don't know if it's good or bad. We can never know that till results come in. But and emerging from that hell, and I have lots of clarity, lots of clarity and I feel much calmer. Much, or at peace.
00:06:35:13 - 00:07:13:19
Unknown
But I see a brighter path, a better path, a better future. And I see where personal my personal life experience and work can actually be harmonized. I don't have to feel guilty about thinking about work, or I don't want to work today. I don't want to feel guilty about that. I can just do that. I'll always prioritize what I think is a better, benefit when my life comes down to on a spectrum of everything of, of everything that is horribly good or bad and good or really about being appropriate, inappropriate.
00:07:13:19 - 00:07:39:05
Unknown
Anyway. So that's another thing. The last line I so I'm sorry, I watched the series on Netflix called Civil War, and that's my second scariest thing I've seen on to on any screen outside of Beaver, vendetta. I don't know, the movies scare me. And I'm not scared because of the story told, but because of the tangibility of the story in either current climate.
00:07:39:10 - 00:08:03:14
Unknown
Right. Like muzzle velocity. That's that's my best way. So something very small can happen, and it's it's impact is so great that it really induces a massive response. And you have to hope it's a good response for it or otherwise. You're just going to go with chaos and chaos. This breed a lot of good things. But you know, it's really about whether you want to endure that or not, I think.
00:08:03:15 - 00:08:32:23
Unknown
So I know it is a sidetrack, but it's kind of the same thing. It's that's where I am. It's I'm a detached observer of of society and life. Right now. I feel no compulsion, to align myself with anything or anyone. Right. Touched on so many good points there. One again, just a testament to your confidence. I know so many people, myself included, who would, you know, figuratively walk up to those gates of hell and maybe feel like it's better to leave them closed, you know?
00:08:32:23 - 00:08:55:14
Unknown
But having the courage to recognize that and to move through the fear and just confidently take that next up and then to see, you know, the impact it's had on your demeanor and your your vision and, and even the strength that you develop from just moving through experiences like that is, is so powerful. And so I think maybe to, to connect the, the past and then start to move into the future.
00:08:55:16 - 00:09:21:01
Unknown
I would love to move into your design journey. What was happening, you know, before 2020. I know that you have been been a designer. You have been a consultant for, you know, going on two decades. Plus, I know that there have been, a lot of pivots in there. And one of the things that really struck me about one of the interviews I listened to, the featured you, was that you said from the beginning, the vision has been the same and the vision has never changed.
00:09:21:01 - 00:09:56:17
Unknown
And to make a pivot is different than, you know, changing the entity of a brand. So just your, your connection to the actual soul of, of even your own personal brand is such a beautiful and powerful thing. So I mean, what what was your design journey like? What what inspired it? Fine art inspired it. I like okay, I understand what this is now, but I was always trying to figure out some kind of,
00:09:56:19 - 00:10:20:21
Unknown
Value feel this feeling of being value valued or acknowledged in some way. Let's be honest, art for me. Well, I don't know. Let's be honest. For me, art is a luxury that always will be something that I do that, art is in a, in our reality, a luxury. It is. It is the dynamic opposite of what water is to people who don't have it.
00:10:20:23 - 00:10:41:23
Unknown
Right. So art is, okay, I can afford it, so I'm going to buy it. That's how we hide money is how we leverage money. So we we like it. Obviously we don't. You know, we like the things we buy, but it's really a luxury to buy art. And I said, okay, that's nice. But, when I was in high school, they asked me, what's my what?
00:10:41:23 - 00:11:02:12
Unknown
My favorite bubble, my superpower be. And I said, mind control. Really? Everybody's trying to do, strength and flying. And I'm like, well, I want to control. I never saw myself as a metro man. I never wanted to be that. It's not desirable. I like leverage. I like technique, I like things that give me an advantage, turn my disadvantages into an advantage.
00:11:02:14 - 00:11:26:16
Unknown
Yeah, and design open that. Well, that's how I saw design from a movie. Right. So I feel like I've shared the story before. What? I, I was watching something was a movie or TV series and the on the Thrones. Right. I know it was. It was year. Yeah. Guy. Well, yeah. You know what? That's actually leverage a great example of how families, you know, people leverage each other.
00:11:26:18 - 00:11:46:02
Unknown
That's a good point. But the one I'm talking about was an architect. He drew a building and it was so great and show it. But they got you got the feeling. And it was such a great design that everybody wanted this and they killed it. And I was like, I want to be that guy. And then my friends thought, oh, wild, probably.
00:11:46:02 - 00:12:04:15
Unknown
Does this say something like that? I like that the fact that he died and even even if he died. So I remember the drawings, right. The drawings is what is work is what they remembered. That's what they wanted and went to the child and were pulling packages apart, which is probably why I ended up in being interior packaging design.
00:12:04:15 - 00:12:26:17
Unknown
But, I remember pulling it apart. Everything I had, I pull them apart, see how they work. And then I said, maybe I can do something else with it, or can I fix it? Let's assume that I broke it. Can I fix it? But as that from a business oriented family, my father was very creative and, from a family of scientists or anything, but just me.
00:12:26:19 - 00:12:47:02
Unknown
I just, I liked science, I like all these things, but they're all under the title of design, I guess, in terms of process and discovery and even art fell under there. And that's what my design journey was. It was okay, this is I can make something beautiful. But before I get there, I needed to have some kind of value that changes something.
00:12:47:04 - 00:13:11:20
Unknown
I have the ability to create, context and control the narrative or perspective and change expand in this and experience, to the person who's going to use it. And I said, I just always wanted to do that. And design became what I call my purpose. Yeah. And my journey. But my journey started in fine art, you know.
00:13:11:22 - 00:13:41:02
Unknown
So do you think that the fine art background, just because, you know, as you said, like art, there's really not a value attached to it, like it is the value that the, the buyer places on it, the value that the artist places on it with, with their passion. Do you think that moving through that industry and then transitioning over into design gave you more of, I guess, a confident outlook in, in pricing your work or just like, you know, understanding that it is a value that people are paying for.
00:13:41:02 - 00:14:06:11
Unknown
So not not short selling yourself. Oh, absolutely. So if you can attach a purpose to art, then you've changed the the perspective of it. Yeah, a purpose meaning something beyond yourself. A friend of mine shared something with me years ago. He said that art pleases an audience of one and designed please aims to please a wider audience. Yeah, and I think creative people generally have big egos.
00:14:06:12 - 00:14:40:22
Unknown
So, we, we tend to believe that we will save the world. We will. But yeah, I like motivation. And the client is always stupid. And, you know, even the recently I shared a tweet and this lady, academic said that the art, the argument about, the argument for people from art school that anti-intellectual arguments, intellectualism, against intellectuals is, is like to very repetitive.
00:14:41:00 - 00:15:03:02
Unknown
But she was doing the very thing that my post is really about the assumptions we make and how we respond to that. Oh yeah. And I said, we either respond from, a place of, you know, like the, academy learning I didn't have. I'm nothing against academic learning. I'm just saying that was one point is you were responding to information you have.
00:15:03:02 - 00:15:26:10
Unknown
But the real world experience is a completely different thing. And when that hits you, your response change. Mike Tyson said, if you get punched in the face, your plan goes away, right? It's kind of like what happened to us. A lot of us, every day or maybe years apart. The pandemic apart, we make all these plans and we, we, the past and future are really non-existent.
00:15:26:12 - 00:15:43:16
Unknown
One is always arriving by the second and the other one is leaving by the second. So you're really always in the present. And it's something they spoke about, one of my favorite authors. And I like the fact that to do great work, you have to be present to have a great big life experience. You have to be present.
00:15:43:18 - 00:16:05:17
Unknown
You do? I think Marcus Aurelius or Seneca. Marcus Aurelius said that. Be good at the thing. Be good at what you're doing. Nothing else matters, right? You know you can be because it is selfish or cathartic, because people believe Stoics like I thought that even though somebody's calling bro ism. But I don't get into that. That's nonsensical.
00:16:05:18 - 00:16:50:20
Unknown
So, yeah. So be good at what you do. And I think everything else falls into place. It's it's understanding what time and effort is and how you value those two things. Work. And I've shared is so many times work, job and, business. If only it suits the separate those three. And that's why I break time and effort that I love that, I love that, and so, you know, when it, when it comes to building that connection, that was one of the things that really struck me about your position as a, as a brand consultant, you know, just as you said that Mike Tyson quote, like, you don't know
00:16:50:20 - 00:17:17:12
Unknown
until you're hit in the face. But one of the points that you made is that we as creators spend all of this time building up like this appearance of a product or an experience or something, but you very pointedly said, like that real experience doesn't stop until it's taken off the shelf, or until it's like it's in your hands and you're starting to unwrap it because you know, no matter what you've done before, after that, if that moment isn't the thing that that is special, it's probably not going to be meaningful.
00:17:17:12 - 00:17:35:05
Unknown
So, I mean, what what led you to kind of having that, that philosophy and kind of cutting through the, you know, I feel like one of the statements that I've heard from you over and over again is that like it, your your brand has to be in business, like the business being out there and functioning is what what really develops the brand.
00:17:35:05 - 00:17:55:06
Unknown
It's not you know, all of the other things are important. But but why is that your, your focus on it and why is that the thing that you have moved into? I guess in kind of the consulting position with your clients, you know, why is that the most valuable thing to you? You could build a great product.
00:17:55:08 - 00:18:21:21
Unknown
It's great quality, and it's there, you know it and everybody knows it. But you were in a company devoted for some reason, and you start to do a lot of explainer advertising around it, or you could be confident in that product and create a beautiful, dynamic experience of accessing that product. And I think that's way more valuable. Yeah, but to do that, you have to be confident in your product.
00:18:21:21 - 00:18:40:15
Unknown
So I don't think you have to sell me the product. Well, I just have to try it. Yeah. But I get access to this and that's that's the brand. Brand. The brand forms after the experience ends. Right. Not what is happening. Yeah. So what are you really doing? What are you. So what do you do with clients? You know, you're building a brand, the brand that are there.
00:18:40:15 - 00:19:02:19
Unknown
You're just helping to shape and form it. But a brand cannot exist once that client or product engages with someone else who's trying to get it, then you have some kind of association be formed right? No, I will always love brands. Even right now with tariffs. I love brand because it showed me that people would still do anything to get a Birkin bag.
00:19:02:21 - 00:19:26:18
Unknown
And I was like, yeah, you're getting it directly from China now. Yeah. And you're saying price is cheaper, but you're right. You're really saying that, oh, I can still get the brand at a lower cost. So for me the world is just mad. Like what are we talking about. You still brands are always going to be the head of everything brand is is how you leverage a business.
00:19:26:20 - 00:19:47:08
Unknown
And they're celebrating that they can get their Birkin bags cheaper. Now. Right. And I'm like yeah but you want a Birkin bag. That's the whole point you're celebrating. Yeah. Price is was just two hours of reach for you. And I'm okay with that because I'm, I'm I think I'm very capitalistic by nature. But in terms of sustainability, not greed, if that makes sense.
00:19:47:10 - 00:20:12:08
Unknown
Yeah. So yeah, I, I'm going to embrace the if you are, if you have a problem with psychological influence, you shouldn't be marketing. You shouldn't be in branding, marketing, or advertising. You can do design innovation. Sure. But yeah, if you really want to be good at something, I think you have to change the purpose, why you're doing it and not look so much at the ability to.
00:20:12:09 - 00:20:33:15
Unknown
I'm really good at what I do, apparently. Yeah. But if I, if I wanted to become, like, I identify with villains in movies. Not because of the, by the way, just because they're always challenging what would be called considered safe and normal. They're they're ones innovating. We have that anyway to take this out. Right. This is this is that.
00:20:33:17 - 00:20:56:09
Unknown
But I'm okay with a system. I like the big cities as much of the light nature. I just need to know what the purpose is. What am I doing with it. So for me, that's a client. The client is only want to know what are you trying to achieve? What's your objective? Your ability to achieve that. And we can discuss that ability if you don't, if you can't do it and you know, all at once we can discuss that.
00:20:56:09 - 00:21:29:09
Unknown
But yeah, that's Brian for me, it's about such psychological influence. Everything else is a functional asset of that influence. So what in your creative journey kind of kind of led you to that belief? And then I would love to know, like on a client side because, you know, as a, as a brand strategist myself, it does seem like one of the most difficult barriers you can experience is to walk in and to try to help someone find the true soul of a business that they've already built and are invested in and are kind of questioning, you know, why?
00:21:29:09 - 00:21:55:12
Unknown
Why it's not not working. So, I mean, in your design journey, what was like were there key turning points that really helped you, you know, evolve and building confidence and really like, you know, start to like, how do you start to show your clients the value of really finding their soul and the impact of that and navigate that in a way that, I guess, overcomes any sort of ego that they have, or hesitancy that they have to move.
00:21:55:12 - 00:22:23:17
Unknown
Because I feel like that's that's like your superpower. I've been told something similar in different words. We call it corporate engine. Probably just I would call it the fix. And I think it's because I, I just, I, I finally, I just, I'm starting to learn the function of business and people and everything from politics to business to entertainment.
00:22:23:19 - 00:22:56:15
Unknown
It's all human. If you understand human desire and needs and psychology and, you know, brain works and some things, it changes how you do business and it can be to your benefit earlier than what kind of person you are. But the client, the client, the ego. James Baldwin said it best. I think, is the way to have a thing is, if I remember correctly, to have a conversation with someone, you have to reveal yourself.
00:22:56:17 - 00:23:31:18
Unknown
So what we failed to do and society because we misinterpret the real intention behind the word kindness, what we do is we don't know the history of the word kindness. So we we're to nice. We don't set up boundaries and rules of engagement. We try to fix the things after I was betrayed. And, so this is how I thought I was betrayed by my professional and personal life.
00:23:31:20 - 00:23:57:15
Unknown
Realizing. No, I betrayed myself. I allow this to happen. Whoever hurt me, you're accountable for that. That's fine. I'm not removing that from you. But I allow that to happen. So to have a great client experience, we have to stop being nice. My job is not to make the client necessarily happy, is is to make them. Thank me at the end of it that I did help them.
00:23:57:17 - 00:24:22:04
Unknown
But if I'm trying to make the experience happy means I'm not doing my job, means that they're not. I'm not telling them. I'm not being honest and truthful. I'm not. I'm not saying, hey, this is my boundary. This is my rules. You know, Even a signed, stupid sign. Oh, oh. Prices of. What are you what you.
00:24:22:05 - 00:24:40:12
Unknown
What's the cost if you do it was the cost invade the way it was the cut. That's not that advantage. That's you selling yourself out right? I don't want that. I don't want to pay a client. I know what the point is. Don't get me wrong. I understand the sign. I'm just saying, why would I pay the client more money to do it themselves?
00:24:40:12 - 00:25:02:19
Unknown
Why not? I take that money and just do. It means that you have to decide. Why are you doing this thing with this person? Is it a real client? Know? Is it just the real conversation? So I need to know what the client, who the client is, and then you know who I am. So how is your confidence like, in the same vein of the how is how is that allowed you to say no more confidently?
00:25:02:19 - 00:25:23:11
Unknown
Because I feel like, you know, as creatives, especially in the beginning stages, it's like this cycle of devalue yourself, chase whatever, like, you know, go through it. And as someone who personally went through that, I know that creates such like an anxious cycle of, well, now who am I now? I'm being known for things that I don't want to be known for, and then it becomes harder.
00:25:23:11 - 00:26:02:20
Unknown
But it seems like No Boundaries have been a reoccurring theme in our podcast, so maybe that's a great place to start is, you know, like, what are solid boundaries for you that are personally important? Do you have any boundaries that you feel, you know, should kind of be a standard in the industry? And, just really like, like how has your confidence allowed you to say no and still just, you know, you're so successful, so clearly it's led to to amazing things still, you know, like conferences understand experiencing and understand that word kindness, where I no longer feel guilty about saying no.
00:26:02:22 - 00:26:33:06
Unknown
Yeah, I still have. What am I really losing? So that's confidence. I don't have the curse of you show, so I apologize. Oh, no. Feel free. Yeah, I call it the fucking position because I saw that movie with John Goodman vocabulary. And I said, you are brilliant. And although what he said. But as anyone's, what I'm really saying is your confidence is the removal of feelings.
00:26:33:08 - 00:27:02:09
Unknown
I do not feel any obligation. I don't I don't feel any loyalty. Or I don't feel compelled to feel loyalty to any group of people. But when I find a group of people that are. Welcoming the difference between manners and etiquette, I treasure it. I don't need friendship. I don't need, But I value friendship. And I love because love, friendship builds trust.
00:27:02:11 - 00:27:25:01
Unknown
So my next girlfriend have to have been alone for a very long time. Yeah. So that's kind of the point. It's it's it's, it's your confidence removal guilt where I do not need to feel bad about myself because I don't like what you're saying. I don't like what his experience is. I can get up and walk away.
00:27:25:03 - 00:27:48:14
Unknown
Yeah, but if I exuberantly effort and time, that would have to have been discussed officially as the business agreement. So, yeah. Pay me when I'm leaving. Thank me for what I've done, but I'm leaving. Or let's let's just cut the losses and walk away. But I don't need to feel guilty because I don't like something I don't to take all the boxes.
00:27:48:14 - 00:28:06:21
Unknown
I don't have to agree with every single thing I can say. I like three of these and this is this is everything. This is the like I'm saying, life and work is everything. I can like three out of these ten things and I I'm done. You can take the bonus seven, but don't make me feel bad because I don't agree with you.
00:28:06:23 - 00:28:47:23
Unknown
Yeah, right. So if your client does the same thing, that's my boundary. I don't I've told you what I think is the best way to go. Feel free to ask me a conversation about that. But if you only have so much time before I say, look, if you want to try something else, go to somebody else. Yeah, but, if I, if I'm, if I'm a professional consultant and I'm supposed to help people, their businesses, then I should be able to be honest and say, I don't know how to help you or this is what I think you should do, or let's explore this up, this problem some more.
00:28:48:01 - 00:29:09:10
Unknown
But then you're in a rush because, you know, have a lot of money and a lot of time. And I'm like, well, I don't want this, you know? Yeah. And and, you know, somebody recommended you like, tell them, thank you. That's it. You know, so boundaries, kindness, the history of the word kindness is the problem. It's royalty.
00:29:09:12 - 00:29:31:01
Unknown
So, so globally, we're we're we've converted that word into something benevolent, and it's nice and everything. But the history of the word kindness is from the word kin. So if you and I were from the same king, then I could feel compassion for you. I understood you, you understood me. The peasants were not royalty. A royalty showed each other kindness, but not the peasants.
00:29:31:03 - 00:29:54:07
Unknown
And we think peasants means they didn't brook anybody. Farmers, really? But anyway, So anybody outside of that circle, they could not relate to them. So they did not show that kindness. That's why, I guess Robin Hood was such a revolutionary at that. And all these kings who did things differently right than I guess. Over time we started to see people, human beings as one kin.
00:29:54:08 - 00:30:18:12
Unknown
But do you not find it difficult? The more we speak about what the health and kindness people get worse. Is ironic, isn't it? Because our interpretation of kindness is not real. It's not accurate. It's not. We don't understand the word. So we're using it out in the, right and wrong, using inappropriate and inappropriate. There's no, you know, it's just when do I use the word kindness.
00:30:18:14 - 00:30:49:06
Unknown
Loving kindness. Love is from trust I do, I trust I'm just using these words I don't know I don't build trust to the clients. I need to express kindness to them because I understand them. Understand both of us have to have an understanding of each other. So we came together in the first place. All right. Yeah. Or I can just go to the commodity approach and try, which would never work, try and make my service into a commodity and do an out of card thing and, you know, this is for an hour or two hours, whatever.
00:30:49:08 - 00:31:14:16
Unknown
That doesn't build trust. That's there. No trust being built through that. That's just me trying to calculate how much I can do to get $100, where I could just say, okay, I could probably do one person this month and get more than $100 because I really love them. Yeah, that's work man. Personal life. That's everything. That's a great perspective.
00:31:14:16 - 00:31:35:21
Unknown
And it kind of it shows how much of a loving thing kindness is not just to oneself but to your client. You know, it's like it's respect for yourself, but you're also not wasting time like you're moving forward. You're being honest and upfront and, no, that's really beautiful to to learn. Like the origin of that and the meaning.
00:31:35:21 - 00:31:56:02
Unknown
I definitely feel like communicating in general, so many terms that we use, like authenticity, things like that. They're like they're so diluted, you know, and we just we throw them around without realizing that, you know, there are boundaries within those things. And it's not a completely selfless thing. It's not a completely you just give everything that you have.
00:31:56:02 - 00:32:21:09
Unknown
Like there there is a balance and there always does need to be, you know, a boundary or at least an understanding. So that's I mean, that's super powerful. And I think something that we need to spend more time on, not just as designers and creatives, but as a society, you know, to understand each other. So and so with your your focus, your entire career, being on like creativity with impact.
00:32:21:11 - 00:32:42:12
Unknown
I mean, can you kind of take us through your creative journey? You know, how you've pivoted your brand with the aim on leaving a lasting impact and really like what that what that means to you, like the power of the narratives and the designs and the services that you're you're offering, like what you hope they, they bring about?
00:32:42:14 - 00:33:11:22
Unknown
I suppose I think I think my impact is still trying to be the architect that got murdered. Yeah, that's a strong goal. Yeah, that, I don't know. I can never know, but I'm aiming to, As a 12 years old. Sorry, I, I saw my father in his office. He was doing, logo design, and I grew JC and a piece of paper.
00:33:11:22 - 00:33:14:23
Unknown
That's when I did.
00:33:15:01 - 00:33:50:17
Unknown
And I think that just kind of dictated my professional life. I, to this day, still being used because as I, I knew exactly what I wanted to do then and then slowly. Now all this I come for is for being form that I'm trying to form. It and it. I realize it has nothing to do with, with, with, with work or my personal life is really it's just, it's like when I leave what's left behind or I don't care what it is about what's left behind.
00:33:50:17 - 00:34:33:14
Unknown
Like, I don't need to be remembered, necessarily, but did I make a lot of people happy? You know that, Sorry. Did I did I make people happy? Right. You know, if that's the gift you give, that's, like, that is the most powerful thing that you could give somebody, right? In this day and age that we we live in those moments of happiness that are deep and like, like feeling are so right mattered, you know, and so short lived.
00:34:33:14 - 00:34:55:22
Unknown
Yeah. If it's it's the thing, it's then, you know, just one thing you could do with, you know, this one, this one person is they maybe, I don't know, but along your way, the impact of that, it's supposed to, then talk about you. I guess they'll say that person helped me. I usually have for you day.
00:34:56:00 - 00:35:19:01
Unknown
You know, let's say that guy helped me. And then you hear a lot of people start saying the same thing, right? Yeah, that makes sense. No, it's, I mean, it's kind of like when you were talking about Civil War and how the thing that you're scared of is the tangible reality of that ripple effect and how, you know, it's something that you're so unconscious of how one small act could impact and lead up to something huge.
00:35:19:01 - 00:35:37:08
Unknown
And it, you know, it's scary to think of that. On the negative side. But when we when we think of the beautiful side of that, like it's such a motivation and inspiration and I mean, like, I know right now just on LinkedIn alone, you've got, you know, 13, 14,000 people following you. You've got two decades of a design career, you know, behind you.
00:35:37:08 - 00:36:06:19
Unknown
It's like to to consider those little ripples and how they're compounding and how they're adding up and how they're, you know, just off on their own journeys to every part of the world. Like, we truly have no idea how far reaching our story and our words and our, you know, commitment to creating impact. Impact goes. Yeah. No, I agree, I, I was invited to be a design judge because of the things I wrote and reviewing and critiquing design.
00:36:06:19 - 00:36:31:02
Unknown
And I write my article is and then other people interviewed me as well. I guess that was shared. Yeah. And I think over all my achievements, it was that it was that was, that was that was the life, I guess, most valuable life for me, valuable professional achievement, responsibility that comes with being a designer. And I'm not judging.
00:36:31:02 - 00:37:00:20
Unknown
There's still esthetic things. I'm literally looking at things from these global brands, tangible things and, good intentions behind them. And then you realize people are trying to do good in the world, and they're trying, but they're they're business. And we need to understand how business works. I know that there are people there that are trying to do something good, but there's still business, and we judge them and we talk about corporations and all these things.
00:37:00:21 - 00:37:19:01
Unknown
And I'm thinking, so what's the alternative? I like to trade off. I like I can trade off, I don't get I'm solutions somersaults, you know, solutions. I like trade offs. But it's more than politics maybe. But I think in the play they're like what's the what's the what's the alternative to not having corporations? I'm like, corporations really are the ones who.
00:37:19:01 - 00:37:46:18
Unknown
And these are the why change minds people, right? Brands are people. I'm like, you said this. It's these little things, these ripples. And I guess that's all I care about in terms of impact. That's muzzle velocity, which is an article I read from Dave Shrimp. And he really spoke about the impact of these things. If you become part of a conversation, whether it's good or bad, you're dominating it.
00:37:46:20 - 00:38:09:16
Unknown
Been that's the velocity of whatever you said or whatever you're doing. You're in the narrative, you're country, you're controlling the context, and the perception is so you control the perception. So then the narrative. So for things I've observed happened in a conversation. Right. Typical conversation. It's a it's facts is shared opinions challenge facts because opinions are restricted.
00:38:09:16 - 00:38:34:07
Unknown
I mean there is their belief system that we've built and we can extract ourselves from that to look at it. All right. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Until the facts are changed. It's just the fact you can change it, right? But the opinions are changing. So we have to create a narrative which is a narrative error to support that belief system, that opinion set of tastes and narratives.
00:38:34:09 - 00:38:51:09
Unknown
It is also what we. So we need a conversation or debate answer. We need to think about what we are telling you to and what is saying. Are you trying to convince them of something, or are you just trying to share something? If I'm sharing something, then I've done that. Then I'm I'm leaving. But if I'm trying to convince you, then I've obviously chosen.
00:38:51:09 - 00:39:14:18
Unknown
I made a conscious decision to waste my time. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, right. And that's what these politicians and business owners and people who that's what they do. They're trying to convince you, like, you know, they could do it a different way. But again, I'm not trying to save the world. I love to, but human nature would not allow me to do that.
00:39:14:20 - 00:39:42:18
Unknown
I can try sharing and it may happen. And then when I pass away, suddenly remember me. That's fine. The impact is the size of this is the the velocity of the bullet they fired. What did I say the both sides about? What's that being saying? Meaningful thing. That's so much about things. I'm forever. It's about learning to not say everything that's on your mind.
00:39:42:20 - 00:40:06:14
Unknown
Yeah, right. How you speak. So speak better. Think differently. You know, do we have to make a complicated ten sheets of paper? No, we don't have to, but we have. We're forced to do that because it looks like we've been useful. Yeah. Yeah it does. Yeah, I could say the same thing in less words. And you understand me?
00:40:06:16 - 00:40:41:06
Unknown
Yes. Right. But you you are going to force me to do more because you can. I take that to people, their bosses. Right. Because they're also going to want more at the client and the system. And this is this whole thing. And I'm like, oh, we just stop it, just be directed honest. And, you know, kind. Okay, this so I mean, like in that vein and I know this might be, a unique discussion for most of us because you are like, you just exude confidence, like you have had the vision and you have moved forward with it.
00:40:41:06 - 00:41:07:02
Unknown
And just a very courageous manner for creatives who might be struggling to, you know, reach that same level where, you know, if you're in a pitch, you're spilling everything, or you're just worried about how you speak, like, have you do you have any like mindfulness practices? Do you have any communication strategies that work? Or how do we start to build up, you know, just a fraction of the confidence that you have when it comes to client interactions.
00:41:07:04 - 00:41:38:01
Unknown
And you you have to I think. So I have six things. I'm sure you've heard that I've shared the before. It's, something, I think if you as is, is understanding and acknowledging that you're a person. Equals just like the product of the whole experiencing the product thing. So stop looking at yourself as this you're a quality product.
00:41:38:03 - 00:42:02:13
Unknown
You're going to create that experience around you. You're going to create the experience that nobody. What are the rules to access? What's how do I lead people access you the first. So you have to acknowledge yourself. Is that something worthy of time and and and other people's time and your time and forgive yourself. So six things discipline. Discipline.
00:42:02:14 - 00:42:23:08
Unknown
What we do. So become good at what you do. And I will constantly be going. That's that's your life's work. Whatever it is, you're going to be constantly developing that. The more you do that, then you're building confidence in your skill. So your skill builds confidence in you as a person because now you you know, you can do something.
00:42:23:09 - 00:42:54:20
Unknown
There's no argument there. You're good at it. Patience, patience is a very important thing to practice patience with yourself and other people. Patience means you wait for results. You do not rush them. Be a confidence that was talked about the action. Take an action. Leave it. Don't interfere with it. So your discipline, your confidence, you take an action.
00:42:54:22 - 00:43:28:22
Unknown
Be patient. You learn. The third one would be, kindness. Kindness to yourself and other people. Kindness. Me needing based on a useful tool. You understanding that. You understand yourself and the person that you're dealing with. You also understand them and then what they do, there has to be some kind of understanding. And that's why kindnesses you're like, can we be metaphorical at this point?
00:43:28:22 - 00:43:57:06
Unknown
Cuz I think historically, what literally can that was that was just each other as can. Right. We're the same. The fourth one is acceptance. Accept that. Accept where you are. Accept what's happening. Accept that there is something you can change. Maybe not now. I don't have everybody or something to kind of change. Accept that may have failed.
00:43:57:08 - 00:44:24:07
Unknown
I need to be myself about this. Accept that there's no Monday. Tuesday. There. No days in a week. And once a year. It's just the sun rising, the sun going down. So every time it comes up is an day for you to do a try again. You've never lived. Today is never happened. Routines are good. But don't be a clock on a wall where you're moving and going nowhere right?
00:44:24:09 - 00:44:54:11
Unknown
That's a good metaphor. I heard of a song some years ago, so acceptance. Accept that you need time to heal or accept that you time to rebuild. Accept that people will be who they are and you be who you are. Yeah. So acceptance. That's the fourth thing. The practice every day. Well everything okay. Because that gave me goosebumps literally.
00:44:54:11 - 00:45:17:15
Unknown
I mean, as someone who's coming out of a healing process right now, it's it's like super powerful, you know? So I'm going to heal quickly and like, no, we just have to walk through that shitty door and then do it a room and come out the other side differently. Yeah. So it's but let me get to that. So the fifth one is forgiveness.
00:45:17:17 - 00:45:53:21
Unknown
Forgive yourself, forgive others. Forgive us. Forgive. Forgive is healing. And let go. That's the lesson. When you get through all that, you can let go. You can let go with you. Do all of that when that is happen. That's a beautiful process. It's so hard to work through, but I. I love that you're showing up as a testament to the proof of what that brings you, because we, especially when we're in those scenarios where things are chaotic or the pain is real or it's fresh, you know, we lose sight of the other side of that.
00:45:53:21 - 00:46:20:17
Unknown
And we do. We try to start rushing through these steps, you know, and it running away or rushing through is not the same as healing. And yeah, the results from those two different paths are extremely different things. And the last three is really where I think the change happens. Once you get the acceptance. Because not it's not, it's not like things that you like the steps you go up.
00:46:20:19 - 00:46:43:02
Unknown
It's, it's it's a circle circle a feedback loop. You've been doing this for the whole life that we have to practice it every day. Right. And it's work. It's everything is it's learning how to. I can choose to react to an offense or not. I don't have to react. I can choose to, you know, or my offender.
00:46:43:04 - 00:47:06:15
Unknown
I think it was a in a way, because, you know, I can choose that. I can choose the experience I every day. But because I feel this compulsion to respond to everything and comment on everything, it changes my experience. But I can wake up every day and say, well, I want to have a good day today and the moment something comes to this that that was like, no, thank you.
00:47:06:17 - 00:47:32:04
Unknown
You know, I go for coffee and for every day. Nice. And that's just what I do. That's just my routine. And I love it. I have, like, more coffee. You know, is being selective. Selective with their clients. Just like you, with your friends. The intense, the things you don't want to be a part of, like.
00:47:32:06 - 00:48:01:03
Unknown
No, you know, she'll give that to somebody else. I'm not interested. What are you missing out? Really? If nothing really matters, what are you missing out? Right. And why are you torturing yourself? Because, like, you know, after the first experience, it's like, you know what you're headed to. But sometimes, you know, we're just glutton for punishment and and and takes with you those learning lessons to really understand, like, I would rather pass this up and maybe suffer for another day or two or week or so and then like, find something that aligns.
00:48:01:03 - 00:48:22:20
Unknown
Then, you know, just kill my soul because that that impact is far reaching. And generally, those are the projects that do start to subtly leak into our personal lives and start to affect everything else because we're we're feeling undervalued, we're feeling very stressed, we're feeling this conflict. And even the best job that we do is not going to be like, fulfilling or really meaningful on that personal level.
00:48:22:23 - 00:48:45:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. It's, let's make it. Maybe we could simplify it a little bit in terms of work for, some of you, you know, I don't know what age groups are in the audience. I just felt I wanted to be very intellectual. So sometimes I try to, like, be told. So simple. Such a simple thing to use is,
00:48:46:01 - 00:48:50:08
Unknown
If a freelancer is doing work.
00:48:50:10 - 00:49:15:01
Unknown
The moment they compromise on the first price they gave that less, there would be less power there. Lost everything. Okay, just walk away or just accept the terms of the client at that point. Right. You've lost. So. But this is what discipline is about. This is what they these practicing these things about. It's it's it's helping your mind.
00:49:15:03 - 00:49:35:03
Unknown
Your mind changes and your brain changes I understand science, so if your brain physically changes when you experience something, you need knowledge, right. So your mind changes your mind the tangible. But your mind apparently changes from physical change. So that means everything you're doing, the physical impacts.
00:49:35:05 - 00:49:57:21
Unknown
Affects the intangible value or experience of who you are. So to be confident people messaged me on LinkedIn, you'd be surprised what message I get out like that about prices. How do I do this in that right? Yeah, I don't want to do anything for free, so I helps them to like, like if I go any further. Yeah, I want to be, you know.
00:49:58:03 - 00:50:21:21
Unknown
Yeah. But like it comes down to what I realize is you just have no confidence. So you're asking me, and it's okay. I've been there. But you need to start. I've been. There's no G.P.S. for this. There's no savior. Just to start. Just choose to do something different or you're going to get the same results, okay? Just choose to do something different.
00:50:21:21 - 00:50:45:02
Unknown
So if your price is X amount of money, I don't care. It's an hour. I don't do hourly being. But I'm curious to know just stand up behind where you say don't compromise with it. You're compromising because you are either fearful of missing out on something or you're in a desperate situation, which is a reality for a lot of us.
00:50:45:02 - 00:51:06:16
Unknown
We've been there and you have to make a choice. And you're you're afraid of the the your gut tells you a choice to make what you're afraid because you don't the right. I want to see you go with a safer one, which is, oh, let's not lose this client right now. Let's get this client. But it. If you were literally starving, that's how you, like hungry?
00:51:06:18 - 00:51:28:14
Unknown
Yeah. You have to look at everything that you make. Is that if I was hungry, what did decision make here? Even if food was being offered to me, like, who's giving me that? That's how my brain works. Who's giving that to me? Right? Well, yeah. Right. Can I endure longer? Probably. You know, I don't know who's going to coming in, but maybe.
00:51:28:16 - 00:52:04:01
Unknown
Right. Because it comes down to. Your decisions, being accountable, owning your decisions. And this extreme version of that is, this is what I mean, that if you position this is where do you can say that? It means that you have nothing left to lose or you or if you lose everything, you don't care? I don't know, but it's a great, powerful place to be in your life when you have that, and I think, I think that's, that's what, that's where the confidence is.
00:52:04:01 - 00:52:28:03
Unknown
Sort of things that I've, shared was that's why they're both. If you practice them everyday, then your brain starts to change perspective, your perception. Your mindset is, you know, growth starts happening. Oh, you're seeing the changes like exercise. You don't see the results immediately. But when you see the results, I promise you. Well, I do, but I know people who do have square with me when they see it.
00:52:28:05 - 00:52:52:20
Unknown
They're like, wow, they never stop. That was vanity. Yeah. Now look at it. Embarrassed, right. So this is what practice does. Or this in perfect practice practice, practice anyways anyone's you know, but it's just about, doing, doing, doing the things that are beneficial for once. Does this benefit me? I don't have a family alone. You have a family.
00:52:52:20 - 00:53:16:01
Unknown
Does this benefit us? How about is this? Can I make my family feel some pain for a while to get this? They will thank me later. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. These are. This is the critical decisions. A desperate person makes two decisions. One is really bad or one is really great. But chances are the one that's really great, they'll never see the result until way down the road.
00:53:16:03 - 00:53:40:06
Unknown
And that's what the temptation is for. The other one is like, oh, this is easy and quick, right? You know, so these are this is a critical thinking is this. And they do the same decline. Do you have the assess analyze their businesses, who they are. You have to make prescriptions after your diagnosis. Right. You don't just get up and say, yeah, I can help you $100 an hour.
00:53:40:08 - 00:54:06:06
Unknown
You don't need. Oh, I have like this three package thing here. You can get this and that and that. What is digital marketing know is marketing. Digital is the strategy or the the, the methodology we're going to use for you. But recursively traditional is just marketing. There's no digital marketing in traditional marketing, right. What's the strategy? Develop a strategy and develop your actionable right.
00:54:06:07 - 00:54:31:20
Unknown
What's the action here? What's your objective right. What's your pain threshold? What are you trying to achieve? What was your pain threshold. You know, can you take this risk. Those are questions you ask as a professional. That's a super powerful question. I don't think I've ever asked that in that way, but I think that that's the thing that definitely resonates with, you both on a human and like a personal level, you know, it's like maybe the business can take some.
00:54:31:20 - 00:54:54:00
Unknown
I don't know how much I can take, though. Right. Yeah, yeah. And I learned that from a divorce lawyer. Like, what's the objective, man? Yeah. What's the result you're looking for? What's your pain threshold? I added the third one. What's your ability to achieve that thing? Yeah. So that means I've looked at your appetite for risk. The only a risky business is a brain.
00:54:54:00 - 00:55:10:14
Unknown
College made that point, and I really like that. You made a point. I say I thought about risk, but it is important to understand people don't want to risk their business. That's what I'm. That's not what I mean by taking a risk. What I mean by taking a risk is what I mean. What is your ability? Your appetite for risk is the ability to do it.
00:55:10:14 - 00:55:26:22
Unknown
So you have you have the ability financial ability to say, okay, well, if I lose, it's not too bad. This is what I can lose. That's how you talk to clients about risk. You don't just tell if they got risk their money. Right? Yeah, I know people are doing that. No you don't, you can't. You're a consultant. What do you know?
00:55:26:22 - 00:55:48:00
Unknown
You don't run a business. You don't go up displays and tell them how to run a business. No. Yeah. This is what I'm trying to achieve. So, Okay, well, this is what is going to probably cost you to do that. So, you know, is that something that you can take on? But they're trying to be bold and different business owners.
00:55:48:04 - 00:56:16:00
Unknown
But don't worry, understand? They're trying to be a little different there. But it's easy to stay where they are sometimes because they don't know how to do that. Is your job as a consultant? That's also what your job is. All right. So part of my I wanted to drop this in a little bit, please do I, I don't I don't normally do this because I have good bad compliments receiving them, but, I would have been Chris Stone, Brian Collins there.
00:56:16:00 - 00:56:40:04
Unknown
Those two reached out to me in a very dark time. Time. But it was mentioning way back. Yeah. And it said something to me that helped. So to that point, I say, also try and surround yourself with people actually give a fuck, you know. Yeah. Will say the right things to do.
00:56:40:06 - 00:57:05:07
Unknown
I guess it's all post. And they all reached out to me, so I guess it's all about it was, you got a lot of a lot of lovers of Crystal in this room, too, and I'm sure that we're all probably right. That was not on camera. We're probably looking at Brian Collins right now and adding on, but no, they they, I mean, it's it's I guess I was trying to avoid that, but maybe they'll be fine with it.
00:57:05:09 - 00:57:34:00
Unknown
They, I will mention them because of their positions and their notoriety. I guess some people know that it happens at all levels where, yeah, people actually can reach out to you. And I think it's about revealing itself, but not me is a two ball number to the point where the wrong people do. But vulnerability. That was something Brian discussed and I discussed and Christy reminded me of the light at the end of the tunnel.
00:57:34:02 - 00:57:55:05
Unknown
You know, I've seen, you know, I see it. You don't know it's going to end, but it does. Pain. Pain is the same thing. I say it the treat, the cause that a symptom. So I tell you were off line. Yeah. That light because that that's what he was he shared with me and that's I guess that's what I'm doing is like I stayed long enough to find out.
00:57:55:10 - 00:58:24:17
Unknown
People see the light coming up. But, you know, I think you have to review yourself professionally and personally for people to actually, they want to have the conversation with you. Right? They're they they want to know more and intrigue their whatever mysteries they're they want to know what's behind it. And if you do the right work and right, it's relatively you do good work, then they'll reach out to you.
00:58:24:17 - 00:58:50:13
Unknown
So you don't have to do that horrible sales approach. Yeah. You know. Yeah. But if your work is everything, like the the people you surround yourself with can open more opportunities than, yeah, any amount of talent really. Can you know and like family I have the time my family. Yeah. If anybody's been there for me, it's been my family I always have.
00:58:50:17 - 00:59:14:07
Unknown
So yeah, I know it's not easy for people server cutting you. I just thought about it. It's not easy for a lot of people. I'm also speaking from a place of privilege. So there's that where I was allowed time to explore this. You know, there's times that, you know, working and I didn't have to. I got my family help me.
00:59:14:09 - 00:59:44:18
Unknown
Thankfully, I was allowed time and privilege to explore and look and figure out what's going on. I feel absolutely empathy for people who can't do that. Yeah. But still everything I believe, everything I said, I believe in, everything I've shared is about finding the way to do it. Even if you don't have that ability or privilege, just find a way to do those things and it will be better.
00:59:44:20 - 01:00:08:05
Unknown
And it's not like my family is giving me money every day or whatever. I mean, they supported me in regarding encouragement. I still had to go and do my, my own, ways of, you know, whether it's a small gig or whatever, survival is what you do, and then you get back to your position. But survival is always going to be, you know, that's different.
01:00:08:07 - 01:00:30:07
Unknown
But you need to have people around you to encourage you have them and then and that make you feel bad or horrible about yourself. Thank you. Discuss the numerous figures that I've made and the network figures that I will, and then numbers opportunities. And not every opportunity, not every offer is an opportunity. Anyway, I could talk about all that, but it doesn't matter.
01:00:30:09 - 01:00:56:12
Unknown
We're all in our journey. We're all. We're all it is that. Why was it that it was something you have to just get up and say, I'm leaving. This. Is that. Yeah. Or why beat somebody down when they're down? You know, just choose to be different. My guess is the be theme here, you know? I mean, that's that's where confidence begins.
01:00:56:12 - 01:01:23:07
Unknown
And that is what changes everything. Like stepping into your true self in a confident manner is what starts to attract the opportunity that are meant for you. And, I think that was a powerful way to bring the conversation full circle. And what what I would like to end today's episode with is, you know, you've you've gone through the gates of hell, you're coming out the other side, you've got a great support network, you've got this powerful hope and vision for the next couple of years.
01:01:23:09 - 01:01:53:04
Unknown
What does that look like for you? And then in the meantime, I mean, where can we find you? How can we how can we support you throughout this journey? Probably have a website back up at some point, but for now, it's the big four LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Yeah, yeah. So, I'm on threads as well and like threads, I like that I can do little captions there.
01:01:53:10 - 01:02:21:14
Unknown
So my threads, but it's fine. Outside of that, it's oh medium. I write on medium under Philadelphia. And, the future for me as, I was told based on some kind of, I don't know, the conversation with a friend of mine, but he's a very benevolent creature. And he said, you're searching for freedom and meaning.
01:02:21:16 - 01:02:47:23
Unknown
So that's my future. Well, freedom and meaning. I live in a bubble. So everything that I do is in there, and I need to be very selective with who I let in to participate in it. But the freedom for me to discriminate against what I don't want to do, and that people see that word again, we should be able to discriminate.
01:02:47:23 - 01:03:18:22
Unknown
But when we chose to discriminate against people, so maybe that's the wrong word for me to use. It is I this climate as well? Freedom to, to The freedom, freedom to live and work on something that is a lot larger than me. Significantly larger than me. Yeah, I like that to be. And design innovation. You know, something in packaging, the future of packaging.
01:03:18:22 - 01:03:52:06
Unknown
Hopefully that's what would be happy doing. And the meaning of life is. As I said to me is use is not something we search for. We are doing it every day. We wake up. That's the clarity I've had. So, you know, that's meaning every day you wake up, you've created meaning. That's it. That's my future. That is such a powerful future.
01:03:52:06 - 01:04:09:17
Unknown
And I love that you're leaving yourself open to just moving through it, and especially with the framework that you gave us of, you know, disciplining, especially the patience, you know, that is, I feel like you were speaking to me directly when we were talking about patience. But it is the hardest thing to evolve in there, right? Yeah.
01:04:09:19 - 01:04:32:15
Unknown
But but yeah. No, to, to really just understand the power of your passion. And I think that. Yeah, definitely from, from this, interaction, this conversation and just keeping in mind that ripple effect and just how expansive it can be and how many people it can touch and how many things it can influence is just amazing. So, I'm just happy to leave something valuable.
01:04:32:15 - 01:04:54:02
Unknown
I think. Otherwise I'm a bad brand experience. I'm. Yeah. You know, happiness is a is a great legacy to leave. I mean, that is was one of the most powerful things that anyone could leave. So definitely on the right course. We're excited to see where the journey takes you. And I sincerely appreciate your time. I know that you're traveling around.
01:04:54:02 - 01:05:23:11
Unknown
I know that you're juggling multiple time zones like it's it's so good to connect with you. I've always appreciated your support in previous episodes. And, you know, our conversations after, after our guests have stepped out and now to be able to explore your journey and to have taken the last, you know, couple of weeks to really delve into it, you know, 100% you have been such an inspiration to me, and I am I'm grateful to be connected and, so appreciative of the motivation and the inspirational words from today.
01:05:23:12 - 01:05:52:13
Unknown
So I'm really, grateful. And, and I have your charity effort. We're going through that research. Yeah, my website's down. And so I don't, you know, I have saved, but I didn't really put them in there. But, I thank you for having me on. Of course. You know, and understand, and I think it's some time ago, I think had an I had a conversation with success is constantly is a constant everyday thing.
01:05:52:13 - 01:06:24:11
Unknown
You you know, once you're achieving things, you're doing it being successful. It's not financial. Financial. I've had that. But it's not that. It's it's it's people like to feel needed and acknowledge they want to be valuable, feel valuable. And I think if you don't feel valuable, you're not being successful in as a person because you're in the wrong rooms and you would be better to yourself, man, go where you're wanted or you needed.
01:06:24:13 - 01:06:42:10
Unknown
It can't be needed, but go where you wanted. Oh, that's okay. Everyone will be much happier. Like go with the people who want you around and they probably. Yeah. Life support. For a reason, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, man. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm very excited to see the ripple effect from this episode and what it does.
01:06:42:10 - 01:07:01:06
Unknown
I mean, I know that it is something that everyone struggles with. This is an episode. You know, five years ago, I would have appreciated and probably been in tears over because it was my exact journey, you know, at that time, and like I said, just to see the example that you're setting in your creative journey, it's just like, it's amazing to.
01:07:01:06 - 01:07:22:15
Unknown
Sorry. Yeah. I just realized, turn on the power bar. Well, I was like, you're good. I was going to turn it. No, no. Yeah, we're all good, but, Yeah. No, Philip, I want to be respectful of your time. I'm really, appreciative of you joining us for. For episode 36. Definitely. I hope that you joined us for a few more episodes.
01:07:22:15 - 01:07:46:22
Unknown
You know, for guests or some behind the scenes conversation. And then, you know, I'd love to love to check in with you a few months down the road just to see where this new journey of, you know, just freedom and ability and actually, you. Yeah. Badass. Fine. Well, you see me posting anyway. Most likely, but, yeah, feel free to check in.
01:07:47:00 - 01:08:12:20
Unknown
I, you know what? I forgot to mention what? The actual requested feature I'm trying to be Anthony Bourdain by industry. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, that's that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, definitely a fan. Definitely someone who thrived on connection and just being human. You know, I mean, and one of the most powerful quotes that, that I think I've heard from you in your recent episodes was design is everything, design is our life is design.
01:08:12:20 - 01:08:36:23
Unknown
The world experience is design. So no, really, even stepping into that creative mindset and confidently bringing it into all aspects of our life, you know, just makes makes such a difference. So absolutely. Yeah. But, all right. Well, and with this, we will, we'll tune out. Thank you, everyone so much for joining us. Revisited 36 of The Developing Life featuring Philip Jay Clayton.
01:08:37:01 - 01:08:55:06
Unknown
We'll have a replay available soon after. If you'd like to rewatch and take notes or, you know, just spend some time with some of the the amazing points that were made throughout this discussion. So, Philip, we'll make sure that in our episode description, we've got all of the links for people to be able to connect with you and to continue to support you.
01:08:55:08 - 01:09:03:23
Unknown
And until next time, thank you. Thank you for joining us, and I wish you the absolute best in your creative journey. Thank you so much for.
