00:00:00
Speaker 1: This crowd rises to speak what Carlos slammed it out? Carl left wing free ball perfect Darlin pop then helift block the shot at the rim pow with the left hand head of fowl.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the Caves Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Down is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including fan Duel Sports Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV dot com Slash Calves.
00:00:32
Speaker 1: Well.
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Speaker 2: The Calves and Thunder both did their parts. The Oklahoma City Thunder are riding a fifteen game winning streak, the Cleveland Cavaliers riding a ten game winning streak. We have one of the most exciting regular season matchups that I can remember. Coming up and joining me today my same old co host, Carter Rodriguez.
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Speaker 3: Carter, how you doing, buddy.
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Speaker 4: I'm doing good, Buddy. I went to Calves Hornets, which was super fun. I took my nephew for his first Calves game, which was great, and we got to sit courtside brother.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: About a full game.
00:01:03
Speaker 4: So that was that was a pretty special Big things to the Cavs for helping me look like the coolest uncle in the entire world. It was his first game, and I was like, we ruined sports for this kid. He's nine and it'll never be as good as it was.
00:01:18
Speaker 1: Last night.
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Speaker 2: I saw courtside Carter getting tackled by it Cody Martin.
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Speaker 4: That was Cody Martin dove for a loose ball right into my legs.
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Speaker 1: I won't lie. It hurt a little bit. You know. No word on how Cody's doing, you know, prayers up.
00:01:34
Speaker 3: Hopefully he's not on the injury report.
00:01:36
Speaker 2: But we got a really exciting matchup, as I talked about at the start of this podcast coming up.
00:01:41
Speaker 3: I could not be more excited.
00:01:42
Speaker 2: We are joined today by executive podcast producer for The Athletic and the host of the Saturday Slamm and Jam and Down to Dunk podcast, Andrew Schleck.
00:01:50
Speaker 3: Andrew, how you doing, man, guys? I'm doing great.
00:01:54
Speaker 5: I could not believe that we got to this point, you know that we saw I saw this matchup coming up and thought, Okay, this would be great. I thought maybe the thunder will lose a couple of these games leading up to it, but the fact that both teams are riding these big winning streaks just gives this matchup so much more juice.
00:02:10
Speaker 6: I'm so pumped up.
00:02:12
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting parallel with both of these teams, not only in how hot they are, but basically like both of these teams are off to historic starts. I was listening to the Down to Dunk podcast and I heard you mentioned that you felt that this was the best Oklahoma City Thunder team that you've seen. And you know, from a CALVS standpoint, we're also in a very similar boat where you know, Calves have had, you know, really really great players in their history. Lebron James pretty decent player. You know, from an Oklahoma City standpoint, you have Kevin Durant pretty good player, Russell Westbrook pretty good player. James aren't pretty good player. But despite you know, not necessarily having those all time stars present, both of these franchises yet good correction, both of these franchises are sitting here with teams that are setting franchise records off to franchise best pace. And I just want you to kind of elaborate on what makes you feel that this is the best Thunder team that you've seen.
00:03:09
Speaker 5: It's funny because Jared Allen recently talked about ethical basketball, and I think, like that's probably happening for both teams right now. You think about just the way that both teams share the ball and the way that both teams play in the offensive end, like they're both looking for the right shots, and so that to me is probably something that defines the team. And really for the Thunder, the thing that defines it more than anything is their defense. I mean the fact that they have a one h two defensive rating right now when we're already in January and they haven't had the full team yet. I mean this is mostly without Chet. They're nineteen and one with Hartenstein, and a lot of it has been just the defense. They just absolutely hound you. They've got great point of attack defenders, they obviously have great rim protection, and then you have the guys in between with Jada and Shay who are just super disruptive defenders, and like that to me has defined it, and that is the reason that they are the best Thunder team in my opinion, is just the defense is so dominant, and then they play in unselfish style on the other end. And then it's also the depth I mentioned chets Out Cruso has only played in seven of these games of the fifteen that they've won. They just have guys that continue to step up and continue.
00:04:24
Speaker 6: To play well.
00:04:24
Speaker 5: Aaron Wiggins has played really well the past couple of games. We've seen rookie A J. Mitchell, who's been out of the lineup for just this past game, but he's stepped up in a big way at times. Lou Dort was great in the second half against Boston. You know, they just have great depth and that is probably one of the bigger separators for them as well as that and I think that's probably the same thing for the Calves that they just continue to just whoever they put out there is going to produce at some level.
00:04:52
Speaker 2: Yeah it's no no, you Oh well, now you're drinking, so I might as well. I definitely has been kind of the the story of the season, right Like there's been times where, you know, even going down to the more like the common staggering pairings that Kenny Atkinson is using in the past, Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley, those lineups didn't work. They had a negative net rating through two years. You know, the Darius Garland Jared Allen pairing worked really well in their All Star season, not so great the last two years. But it seems like every you know, combination that Kenny Atkinson has used this year has been really successful. And despite the fact that this team isn't really chasing wins, like they're keeping guys out a little longer playing it's safe with injuries. No one's really playing over thirty minutes. It's just kind of resulting in wins because you know, the Thunder are doing it with one of the best defenses I've ever seen, and the Cads are doing it with you know, the best offense that the league has seen through thirty five games.
00:05:49
Speaker 6: Yeah, it is fun seeing the contrast.
00:05:51
Speaker 3: Go go ahead, Carter.
00:05:52
Speaker 6: What do you have to say, my man?
00:05:53
Speaker 1: Oh, not too much, not too much.
00:05:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is it does feel like this is like I think part of the reason I think we can all gets so excited for this is it's not only just a game between two great teams. It's it's like the ultimate styles make fights type of game. You know, the Calves are big, the Thunder are, you know. Hartnerstein excluded small. The Calves are this electric offense. The Thunder are this, you know, unbelievably stifling defense, and you know, and beyond that, I feel like neither is even really even gotten got you know, It's like it's not like the Calves have had maybe one game where against Atlanta where I think they have had a sub one hundred offensive rating. I mean and even in you know, like you look at that Cup final loss for the Thunder, which of course doesn't count no one, no one's no, no one's counted.
00:06:43
Speaker 6: Happens in Vegas, Man, what happens in Vegas?
00:06:45
Speaker 1: What happens in Vegas?
00:06:47
Speaker 4: But you know, like other than that, even when they lose, it's like their offense kind of lets them down like that, I feel like the defense has been the one like no matter what, Like, why do you think it is that Okaye is just getting absolutely like it doesn't feel like teams have the variance game against them where they just can't miss and Okay, see gives up one thirty. You know everyone else has those games. Why doesn't it happen to Oka?
00:07:13
Speaker 1: See?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, they just have.
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Speaker 5: Such a strong baseline of defense and it's and it's the guys that continue to come in. I mean, it's it's case and Wallace has started a majority of games for the Thunder, but he and lou Dort are interchangeable at times. I think that that helps a lot. And it's really just like the energy, Like the energy just strangely doesn't waiver, and you would think that would be something that would eventually waiver for a team, but it just really hasn't. And I think a lot of that starts with the leadership from Shay.
00:07:42
Speaker 6: Like Shay.
00:07:44
Speaker 5: He wants to win so badly and he will bring the energy on both ends every single night. And I think those guys look to him and they decide we're going to play like him, and that, to me, is probably the tone setter for this team, but a lot of it has been. To me, it's it's when Chet was in the lineup. I mean, teams were shooting fifty three percent at the rom when Chet was in the game, which is just wild. But Hertenstein is one of the better rim protectors in the league. And he doesn't have like the fancy block numbers. He's averaging at one point four blocks per game, but he just is really good at switching and he's really good at preventing guys from getting into the paint or getting to the rim. He's super physical and I think that he has been a huge reason why and just having one of those centers in the game just helps so much. And it's just hard to imagine what it'll look like having both of them, you know, at some point where I don't know how much they'll play together, but they'll certainly stagger them. You'll have forty eight minutes of those guys. But I think that it starts with the primer defenders, the point of attack guys in lou Dort, in Case and Wallace, and then when you have a guy like Hertenstein on the back line, it really helps. And Jalen Williams too is probably an underrated defender. He's got to defend a lot of bigger guys. My guess is that he'll defend Evan Mobley for a vast majority of the time on Wednesday, and he has done really well. He defended Towns the other night, like that was his primary assignment. He did very well with Towns. It kind of took him out of his game. Towns didn't take a three in the game against the Thunder, which was just really strange.
00:09:16
Speaker 4: He has weird games like that where it's like, why aren't you doing the thing that you do?
00:09:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was almost like he was like the Thunderlight gave him like this like nineteen nineties chip or something they put into his brain. They're like, you're big, you better get get down on the block, buddy.
00:09:32
Speaker 3: It was.
00:09:32
Speaker 6: It was strange. It was very strange. But Jada did a good job.
00:09:35
Speaker 5: And he's a guy that I think probably goes a little bit under the radar on the defensive end, but he will get those like big either the big wings or like the big power forward assignments, and he's done a very good job even despite the fact that he's I mean, he's labels as a shooting guard on.
00:09:54
Speaker 2: Basketball Reference and that's probably, you know, a testament to how good of a job both ch at Home Grene and I say Hardenstein have done as a rim protector, because you know, even though he's holding his own as a power forward, having that back line support really helps. And I was looking at the numbers last year, opponents were shooting eleven point four percent worse at the rim with chet defending. It was eleven point two with Hartenstein with the Knicks, right, So when you have two guys like that, like you said, it's it really does give you really high floor defensively, and you know you said that you're not sure how it's going to look when both are available to the thunder. You're kind of copying our notes. You know, you could just look over the Cleveland Cavaliers and how they always have one of Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. I'm really excited to see what chet Holmgren looks like as kind of that roaming power forward getting to kind of spread his wings on the defensive end as Evan Mobley is able to. And you mentioned it, you know, with Jalen Williams defending Evan Mobley. I'm really curious to see how that looks because, you know, one of the kind of things that Carter and I have highlight over the last couple of years is when you're building an offense around two smaller guards, you need to have that frontcourt playmaker to alleviate what teams can do to them defensively, and the Thunder of a lot of length, you know, even though they're playing a shooting guard to power forward, there's a lot of point of attack defense. Lou Dort has done a phenomenal job on Donovan Mitchell. Shae is going I assume he's going to probably guard Darius to start the game. Like that's a lot of length to kind of throw at them. And I'm really curious to see what Oklahoma City does to disrupt Evan Mobley because I kind of expect him to be, you know, key to freeing up the Cavs offense. Do you expect them to play straight up? Like is that basically how Jalen Williams been playing these matchups?
00:11:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, I expect it to be straight up for sure, and I think they'll probably have Shae on whoever is going to be on the wing, and then they'll probably have Casea Wallace Gotcha guarding Garland. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see because I do think it will be straight up on Evan Mobley. And I don't know, and I know I'm talking to a Cavs audience right now, but I don't know that like the Thunder audience or other people really quite understand how good Evan's become on the offensive end. Like what I do want to flip this on you guys, like what what have been like the biggest improvements that you've seen, And how has he fared against like smaller guys that guard him.
00:12:20
Speaker 4: Well, I think I'll jump in and just say I think that he's done a much better job of mashing these mashing switches, mashing mismatch. He's just functionally a lot stronger. And it's not in the way that you kind of imagine that what big strong Evan Mobley would be. A lot of it's just he doesn't get knocked off as center of gravity as much anymore, and he has such pogo stick jumping ability where he gets off the ground really really easy. A lot of the time he's just high pointing floaters and layups when he's rim attacking. And it's not that he's you know, I mean every now and again, like he had one last night against Nick Richards I think, or maybe it was Mark Williams, I don't remember. Where he does do the step through and dig the elbow in and go up and rise up. But a lot of it is he catches and just he's up, he gets a bump and he's on the way to the hoop and he is up in the air faster than the defender is. And if you're if you're not off balance when you're rising and you're six feet from the hoop and you're the size that Evan Mobley has, it's just an easy it's functionally an uncontested layup. So, like, I think the worst version of Evan Mobley even today is the guy who goes bump bump, bump, spin move, spin, move bump to try to like worm his way to the hoop for a dunk. Like he can do it still, and like there are certain possessions where he gets it, but I think really where he's been best is when he's catching on the move, catching with advantage and it's just step step rise, and like it's just too hard of an angle for smaller players to guard. And then you know, and then when biggs are on him historic at least this year, they just haven't been able to keep up with him, and handles tighter when they bump him again, the center of gravity is good and he's just stepping around people.
00:14:12
Speaker 1: Now.
00:14:12
Speaker 4: Hartenstein is a calves killer. He is very very very good against Jared Allen. He is very very good against Evan because not only is he big and strong, he's smart and he's athletic something a quick little Hartenstein note, And I don't want to pivot too hard because it was a good question, and I don't and it's certainly worth the throwing off your game. I'm sorry, No, it's it's fine. I just was looking up when you were talking about Hartenstein. He's only averaging three and a half fouls per thirty six and literally his entire career he's been around five to the highest he ever had was nine fouls for thirty six. So he's got some kind of secret sauce going where he's able to play as physically as he always has, but now he's not giving you any easy ones. And like so I think I think both j Dubb and Hartenstein kind of provide different challenges for Mobile, but like to Justin's point, he's going to have to figure it out.
00:15:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see because we've seen him attack, you know, some smaller defenders, we've seen him attack larger ones. And I think Carter did a really good job with the breakdown there. But I think what I find about this matchup that's so interesting is the Cavs approach offense differently than the Boston Celtics or the New York Knicks. This is something that we've talked about a fair bit recently, where you know, Boston's really looking to find that mismatch on every possession, right like, let's get the switch we want and let's attack in isolation, and you know, if they bring help, we're going to kick it out to an open shooter. Oklahoma City held Boston to the second worst shot quality game of the season, and you know, there really isn't that mismatch to pick on. You know, there are strong defenders up and down that lineup, and I think that's why you've seen Boston drop some of these games, like even to Orlando, those incredibly short handed it just wasn't the mismatch to kind of pick on. Whereas the Calves, they kind of take it as a we're going to run our offense no matter who's guarding us, and we just trusted to get good shots. And I think mobiley getting the ball with advantage and attacking within the flow of the offense. Donovan Darius, That's what we want to see if the Cavs are able to do against this elite of a defense, because, as Carter said, when Mobile is just kind of playing mismatch basketball. I don't think that that's the most effective version of them. But I think the question is really going to be can the Thunder disrupt what the Calves are doing offensively and get them into the mud, because I think from a matchup standpoint, that's what we really want to see. Is there something from the Oklahoma City standpoint that you're kind of looking interested to learn with this matchup against Cleveland?
00:16:48
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I'm very interested to see how the two big front court does against the Thunder, just because they are a little bit small everywhere else that have good length, they're strong, and they're pesky. But I'm just really curious to see how their defense works because they are just They're all about packing the paint and swarming whoever gets to the paint. The Celtics scored really well at the rim to start the game. I think they were twelve or thirteen in the first half, and the Thunder just shut the water off in the second half and they just brought more energy, more physicality, and it's going to take them doing that really probably for forty eight minutes. That's one thing that I want to see too, is like, can the Thunder actually get off to a good start because they did not get off to a good start against the Knicks, did not get off to a good start against the Celtics. They had these incredible third and fourth quarters that kind of was this avalanche of points and an avalanche of just guys in the paint just keeping the other team from scoring. And so I'm interested to see if that works. Neither team was really able to make the Thunder pay from the corners too. The Thunder give up more corner threes than any team in the NBA, and so I'm wondering if the Calves can make the Thunder pay for that strategy. I think that's that's the strategy that I think really killed the Thunder against the Mavericks last year in the playoffs was that Luca is A is just like an expert at hitting the corners from any point on the court, and so he got those guys wide open shots and they made them. You know, I think that's another kind of Achilles heel for the Thunder defense, is that if you are intent on getting the ball to the corner, it's eventually going to be open. Because the Thunder are just they would rather give up the corner three than any shot in the paint, and so I'm just curious to see if the Calves can find those weak spots and exploit the thunder defense in that way.
00:18:40
Speaker 4: It's kind of interesting to hear, like, you know, because you know, when you're not deep into the end of watching okay see, you kind of just assume it's like this impregnable fortress that you know, you're just not gonna be able to make hay On in any real spot, and then you kind of hear this kind of stuff and you realize, like everyone picks a poison in the aend, like there is no there is no perfect defense. There is no perfect scheme, perfect personnel that makes it so you just don't have to give up anything. And obviously the Calves shooting it and three point uh uh, you know, barrage so far as the season has been, you know, probably the most public hallmark of what's made them special. But something I'm really interested to see is are they gonna be able to get downhill? Because you know, the point of attack defense is so strong, but it is super aggressive. This is a really aggressive turnover for saying okay, see team it are Evan and Jarrett going to be able to set good enough screens and are is okay, see gonna put two on the ball? Are they gonna switch? Are they gonna drop to and and are the Calves gonna be able to turn the corner? Because you know, you look at that Boston game and Boston is twenty seventh in the league and drives per game the Calves are fourth obviously. Okay, see right there at two. You know, the Nicks are in middle of the pack team in terms of, you know, really driving and getting into the paint of the defense.
00:20:05
Speaker 1: Do you think that.
00:20:08
Speaker 4: A guy like Garland, a guy like Mitchell who have you know, no one stopped him from getting into the teeth of the defense yet, but we do know hyper physical point of attack guards can junk them up. You know, we saw that in the Knick series a couple of years ago. We saw Orlando do it to them like it does feel like the personnel is there to kind of keep the Calves side to side. Do you think the Calves are going to be able to get down help?
00:20:31
Speaker 5: It's really really tough against dort and I think that he fights their screens so much they will do a fair amount of switching. You'll see that but he can fight over a screen better than almost anybody, and he's going to draw offensive fouls doing that. That's gonna be the biggest tests probably all season for the Calves. Is like, what does Donovan Mitchell do against lagaan start? Because that guy is just.
00:21:00
Speaker 2: In the past, Like he's some of his worst games, you know, uh, thinking back to when he was in the Western Conference and even in recent years have come with Dort on him.
00:21:09
Speaker 6: Yeah, he just Dort just doesn't stop.
00:21:11
Speaker 5: I mean Mark has I haven't heard Mark describe describe it this way in a long time, but he used to describe it as is he as if he like almost like blacks out on the court and he's like such so in the game that there's nothing you can do to take him out of it. And that's just how he plays. Even on the offensive end too.
00:21:29
Speaker 1: He did that.
00:21:29
Speaker 5: He's he started oh of eight against against the Celtics, and like, the dude just keeps shooting. He just doesn't care. He's just in the game. He's in the moment and that's how he is. And Caseo Wallace is not that far off from that same mentality. And so to have two of those guys there I don't know what Caruso's status is yet, he's he's missed what I what feels like enough time to where we can start talking about him coming back, which would be like adding another player that is pretty similar in the way that he plays defense to this group. I do think that if the Thunder are good at anything, it's they're good at keeping guys from getting downhill and getting into the paint and so and they certainly will pack that once somebody gets there. It's all about packing the paint, making them play in a crowd, and then you recover out to wherever the ball sprays out, whether that be back up top down to the corners. That that's where the Thunder are like really scrambling. And they've I say, they give up the most corner threes. They're also opponents aren't shooting that well on corner threes. They only shooting thirty six point eight percent, which I think is like I got top ten number for a team defense. And so they're they're they're recovering, but they're still giving up more than anybody else. They give it up eleven. No one else has given up eleven in the league this year. Everybody else like the Nets. It's funny because, like you look at the other teams that are giving up ten, it's like the Nets and the Wizards and the Pelicans, you know, other teams that are given up ten. It's like these teams that are certainly much worse than the Thunder. But yeah, they're going to pack the paint. It's to be a challenge. I think it'll be Donovan Mitchell a lot off the dribble for the Calves in order for them, if he's going to be like the main driver of offense, like, it's going to be probably a lot off off the dribble, step backs, pull ups, which he's certainly capable of. But the getting downhill part is going to be is going to be tough with Lou.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, this is what makes Oklahoma City probably one of the best defenses I've ever seen, right, Like the point of attack defense is so strong, but the help they're able to provide is just phenomenal. It's kind of similar to zoom Ai Companion in that way. Because only you can do your best work, zoom Ai Companion can help you do the rest, like automatically taking notes, answering meeting questions and helping you respond to your coworker failable no additional cost with eligible paid plans. We're happy with zoom Ai companion.
00:23:46
Speaker 4: Brother, you don't catch me off guard that often anymore. What a unique attack that ad was. For a second there, I was like, I don't know what he's saying, and I it's that doesn't happen very often, and I'm on a basketball podcast. I was like, man, I don't know what the zume thing is, but I'm really interested to find out.
00:24:05
Speaker 2: You know, I That's That's what I'm going for us. I'm here to get people off their feet and out of their comfort zone, similar to what the Oklahoma City Thunder will try to do with their defense. I'm I'm I couldn't be more excited for this matchup. I think Shay right now is the MVP front runner as a Canadian. That makes me thrilled. You know, Shay was absolutely awesome for Team Canada and you know, showing off that ethnical hoops even though he gets you know, some crap for foul bating disgust right now, he was able to get it done in Foba when they're allowing that physicality, unlike some other stars that couldn't handle it.
00:24:42
Speaker 3: Shake Shae can do both.
00:24:43
Speaker 2: He can do both. He's very versatile. But what I'm really excited about is they're almost.
00:24:48
Speaker 3: Mirror images of one another.
00:24:51
Speaker 2: Right, Like we both know the Cavs have the best offense and the Thunder had the best defense. But you know, even when you weigh it to like quality of opponent, it like down to every single category. They're you know, Oklahoma City Thunder is the best defense against top ten offenses in the league. The Calves are the best offense against top ten defenses in the league. You look at half court offense, the Calves are number one and half court offense, the Thunder number one and half court defense. The Thunder or number seven and a half court offense. The Caves are number six and half court defense. It's like mirror images every single category. And you know you talked about them trying to get downhill and get the ball movement going. The Thunder are the best team in the league at generating steals. Austin was able to kind of avoid that because they play such isolation basketball, But for a Cavs team that really relies on ball movement, that's going to be a really interesting challenge because the Calves do the third best job in the league taking care of the ball and not turning the ball over, But are they able to do that against Oklahoma City's defense. It's just like, from top to bottom, I couldn't be more excited about kind of the styles make fights of this because you know, it really in the NBA right now, in this parody field league, it's a big game of rock paper scissors and the cavesmen walking around with this rock and they're like, it's.
00:26:05
Speaker 3: Rock rocks, dude, this is great.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: Uh, And we're just kind of trying to see, Okay, when does the paper come?
00:26:13
Speaker 3: And I think that's what makes this so interesting.
00:26:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, where's the I feel like I'm just looking for the theoretical, uh, you know, extreme of each version of this team, you know, like, and I think we'll learn a lot, you know, because I do think there's a world where okay See wins a game that's in the one twenties, because like, it's not like either of these teams are bad at the other side of the ball. You know, the Calves are a top seven defense, Okay See is a top eight offense. Like, certainly both teams can kind of play either way, And I got to ask a little bit about the the other end of the floor, which is, how is okay See gonna score enough to stick keep up with the Calves? Like we spend a lot of time talking about how the calves are gonna, you know, all the challenges they're going to have to score.
00:27:01
Speaker 1: Is okay See?
00:27:02
Speaker 4: Do you think the case is going to reliably be able to get buckets against what I would consider to be the best shell defense in the league, Like if oka See are the best chaos defense, I think the calves are the best when you when you can't get them into rotation.
00:27:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess my question would be who who do you think gets the assignment for Shay.
00:27:22
Speaker 4: I think it'll be assuming Noel kro because you know he's still recovering from that shoulder injury.
00:27:28
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be Dean Wade.
00:27:30
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be Dean Wade, and he is I think much better at guarding the big Burley Jason Tatums of the world than the say, so that could be you know, that could be a scab to pick at right away.
00:27:43
Speaker 2: It's going to be the biggest test because I remember two years ago, like it was genius to really struggle, like he defended threes and four as well, but when it came to kind of shift your guards, he would get really handsy. And know who, he can't get handsy with Shaite because those arms are going up and he's going to abuse you. And I remember there's a game two years ago where Shay just kind of got Dean in immediate foul trouble. He's done a better job of that. But I kind of, you know, if I'm looking at ideal matchups, I would much prefer Isaac Ocord to be available in this game. You know, it's kind of the the Caz version of lou Dort, you know, screen navigating, great point of attack defender that's learned how to shoot the threes. But I kind of I agree with Carter, But I also expect there to be a healthy amount of Darius on shape, Like it's going they're going to hunt screens, They're going to try to get it done. The calves like the Thunder play those possessions straight up. Boston basically ran continuous action to get Tatum onto Garland, and Garland held his.
00:28:41
Speaker 3: Own in those spots.
00:28:42
Speaker 2: So I kind of expect no matter who's starting on Shae, there's going to be a good number of Darius on shape possessions.
00:28:49
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:28:49
Speaker 4: I mean, the reality is the Calves are one of the switchiest teams in the league this year, you know, way way way up.
00:28:55
Speaker 1: Than they were under JB.
00:28:56
Speaker 4: Bickerstaff, and part of me, you know, and I do think that's strategy they should probably pursue here because you know, the reality is you're gonna have Dean Evan or Jared on the back line protecting if Shae beats whoever is on the ball, So you know, and I think the more that you can gunk up like okay, so he is a gunkable offense, like you can slow them down. Can you talk a little bit about like what tends to happen during those kind of fallow periods in the offense for someone who hasn't watched a lot of Okay, see.
00:29:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, it typically happens when Shay's off the court. They have not really found a true rhythm with Shay off the court. They were I felt like they were starting to find it and then Aj Mitchell sprained his toe, but Aj was kind of coming in as the backup point guard and he would play a lot with Jadab in those lineups, and I think that was certainly something that helped the offense. But it's usually when Shay's off the court and Jadab is trying to find his way as like a driver and a playmaker and a score in his own right, which he has had a ton of success and he's had a ton of failure with that. Even recently he only had ten points against the cav or against the Celtics, and so I think that he the the real times when the thunder struggle is when it's Jade in there as the guy that's running the offense, and then the other guys just aren't hitting. Isaiah Joe has gone through a drought recently. Aaron Wiggins has kind of come out of that. He's been really good the last few games. But it's it's when role players aren't hitting shots, and it's usually when Shay's off the court. Shay's is going to get his like Shay's going to come in, He's going to get thirty. But it really is who else is stepping up on a night to night basis, and they have a lot of guys that are capable of doing it. We've seen we have seen it be Isaiah Joe at some points this season. We saw Cason Wallace was great against Boston. The other day, lou Dort was hitting his threes. But they're all a little streaky, and they're really the games that they've lost. The one that happened and the Cup game was just like everybody was off, you know, Yeah, you know, Shay is doing his thing, but nobody else could.
00:31:07
Speaker 6: Hit, which was a problem.
00:31:09
Speaker 5: These are they lost to They lost to the Spurs without Wimby. It was a very strange game.
00:31:14
Speaker 6: It was.
00:31:14
Speaker 5: It was probably I talked about that energy that they always have. That was probably their lowest energy game of the season.
00:31:20
Speaker 1: I think it was.
00:31:20
Speaker 2: Probably that's a defensible one where you look across from You're like, Spurs, no Wemby, Yeah.
00:31:26
Speaker 3: We probably can, we can, we can go with our B plus today.
00:31:29
Speaker 6: Yeah that's kind of how it felt.
00:31:32
Speaker 5: But yeah, to me, it's it's just that you don't get enough from the role players and you're not getting enough from Jada, which has happened, you know, in this in this season. But I'm interested to see what how Shay gets into the mid range because he loves to get to the hoop.
00:31:46
Speaker 6: He loves to drive.
00:31:47
Speaker 5: He'll draw fouls, certainly, but I think that the thing that he's become like one of the best at is like just getting to that mid range jumper. And like my curiosity is, like, how have the Cavs handled guys that get to that mid range jumper and what does that looked like?
00:32:04
Speaker 2: I mean, if we're talking about Shay hunting the switches and Garland being on him and Shaye just shooting over him from the mid range, the kads are going to say, Okay, we're going to live with this, like we don't care if you hit your next seven. We're not going to bring help. We are going to stay in our shell defense and you know, we're we're just going to live with this, like we're going to basically count on you not getting other people involved in those actions. And that's how they approached you know, the game against Boston, Like the game in Boston didn't have a single small forward active for that game. Garland had one of his shoot we're shooting games of you know, his career and still yeah, and it ended up being, you know, a three point loss, still because you know, Boston kept going to those Tatum actions and you know, the the end result was a very inefficient points for you know, possession on those spots. I expect Shay to be more efficient in those, but I think they're they're going to they would live with it, like that's basically been their defensive philosophy throughout, you know, this season, and you know, I'm curious to see if that shifts, if she's getting you know, Garland into foul trouble or you know, if he's able to really get to the rim and break down that shell because he is such a talented ball handler. And you know, for all the people that complain about the game being played the same way and every team plays the same style, I really hope they tune in Wednesday because this is a matchup of like two teams that play the way everyone claims they want teams to play like the Cavs play this, you know, twenty fourteen Spurs ball movement style. Evan Mobley's playing as a seven foot draymon. Like the ball just has so much momentum. They get those shots up. How they generate the shots varies. It's not a lot of isolation, Shaye is you know, everything people say that you know they miss about like Kobe and you know all the mid range assassins of yesteryear. Shay is able to do that in like a modern way, Like this absolutely should be a game that people that complain about basketball being played the Celtics ways should be tuning into.
00:34:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think that it's obviously a game that has been like flexed in. I think both the thunder Cass games have been, which is great to see. I just hope people will actually watch. I hope so too, because this is I mean, this is it is going to be such a fun matchup and it's like two teams that were built in ways that I think fans can get attached to as well. And I think that's true of the Celtics as well. Saying this again about the Celtics matchup, but just like teams that were built in a way that you get to kind of grow, the fan base gets to grow with the team, which is just really it's just really cool, and it just builds this momentum like in the community and with the team and online and everything. I just hope that we can see this kind of collision course of both these teams Wednesday night, and that the league promotes it in the right way and then these can shine. I just hope that we get like a good game, like I really helped to blowout in either direction, because I want both teams to be showcased in a way that is favorable. And it's going to be highlighted on Sports Center and whatever and wherever else because like, it's just it to me, it's a it's a really important game.
00:35:17
Speaker 6: And two small markets as well.
00:35:19
Speaker 2: I was going to say it's it's two small markets not far removed from losing like a once in a generation talent, right like, and these aren't teams that have the advantages of you know, other markets where Okay, like we we left on a couple of things, but you know we Hollywood's here, so we can sign Lebron if we want.
00:35:35
Speaker 3: Like it's you know, it's.
00:35:37
Speaker 2: Look, look how long Chicago has been trying to get it going out after losing Michael Jordan, right Like, it's it's not an easy thing to do. And both of these teams were built in really organic ways, you know. Obviously, Okay, see you got some some halls for some of their players. Cavs managed to get the initial Kyrie return and transform that into you know, Sexton Lowry and Jared Allen, So it was a bit of a recovery from the initial trade.
00:36:04
Speaker 3: But you know, these are.
00:36:05
Speaker 2: Teams that, as you said, were built in really organic ways, and I just think it's so interesting that both of them have like these strengths, you know, the immovable object versus you know, an unstoppable force, and also like their weaknesses aren't really things that the other team can pick on, right, Like, the Calves are not the best defensive rebounding team. They're twenty first in defensive rebound rate, but okay see's twenty six in offensive rebound rate, right or twenty fifth, okay see, not a very good defensive rebounding team either. They're twenty eight, the Calves twenty six in offensive rebound rates, so they don't really like take advantage of those. I think the only thing you could really point to is that, okay see does allow you know, the the third most wide open threes, and you know, for the season, teams have shot the twenty fourth percentage on those shots. Calves have shot incredibly well on wide open shots. But as we said before, whether they're able to get downhill and actually generate those shots I think it's going to be a really big.
00:37:01
Speaker 4: Question, and I also think for what it's worth, like it just goes to show like the difference in like what a wide open shot means against the Chicago Bulls versus what a wide open shot means against Okay, where you've expended so much energy to earn that wide open shot, even if you earn a lot of them, like you're just gonna have heavier legs, you're gonna you've got you've got a crazy person flying at you on a close out, like and you know, like and you know that, like you might have had three or four possessions in a row where you didn't get a lot of rhythm, or you got the ball ripped from you a couple of times, and like all of a sudden, that wide open shot just feels real important to make and you better make it, and then up you get in your head and then you miss. So like I do think there's like a lot of like even with those metrics, like you know, a wide open shot just isn't the same against Okay see as it is against the Bulls or the Pacers or some of these other teams that you know, you can kind of make in that way offensively against.
00:38:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be really really interesting.
00:38:06
Speaker 2: I it looks exhausting to generate those open shots against Okac. I normally give up twenty four games. We have to work for all of those. I guess the last question I have basically about, you know, kind of the tactical matchup here. Gas run a lot of zone. How has OKAC kind of performed against those defenses in the past, Like they've been kind of a historically a low three point shooting team like Shay and j Dubbed didn't really have great volume prior to this year.
00:38:36
Speaker 3: They've managed to up that.
00:38:38
Speaker 2: But have they kind of had enough shooting to overcome some of those zone looks teams have thrown at them so far this season.
00:38:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, they've done much better against zone. And I think some of that too is like you can get the ball into heart and Stein in the middle of the floor.
00:38:51
Speaker 1: They able to make this savon man. Yeah, I think smart.
00:38:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, that has helped a ton because last year you throw a zone at the Thunder, they look like they never played basketball before. Like it it did not look good. And some of it was you have Josh Giddy on the perimeter he gets the ball and it's like a record scratch, and he's they're kind of leave him out there to make the decision, like they're just daring him to shoot.
00:39:14
Speaker 6: And now you don't have that.
00:39:15
Speaker 5: You know, when the ball is moving, it's going to hit the hands of somebody. Even if guys aren't guarding Dort, he's going to shoot it. If guys aren't guarding case of Wallace, he's going to shoot it. You know, there's not the disruptive from the flow of offense anymore once they once they see his own. And so they've actually fared pretty well. They've played. They've been able to crack zones a lot faster than they did last time, and so I'm interested to see that as well. I think that it is a true test for them and a true test for like Hertenstein with this group, to see if they can actually crack it.
00:39:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, a true test is what these teams have wanted to have, right Like, Okay, see, he didn't get that chance when when they played Memphis because everyone was out, and then you know, they just had to really big tests and they pass both of them. Even though those games didn't get off the great starts, they managed to kind of have those comebacks, and you know, from a cast perspective, we've been sitting here really kind of wanting to see the team tested as well.
00:40:11
Speaker 1: Right, Like, I want this one too much, Andrew.
00:40:14
Speaker 3: I really want this one.
00:40:15
Speaker 2: Like it. You know, when when Golden State came into Cleveland, it was okay. You know, this is the second best defense in the league. The issue that the Cavs have had going to the playoffs is the defense holds up. As much as people talk about getting a big wing defender, the defense has always been really great.
00:40:29
Speaker 3: In the playoffs, the.
00:40:30
Speaker 2: Offense goes to crap. And you know, so far they've held up against top ten defenses, you know, best offense in the league.
00:40:37
Speaker 3: In those scenarios.
00:40:38
Speaker 2: It's actually better than their season offensive rating.
00:40:42
Speaker 3: Which is hard to believe, but there just.
00:40:44
Speaker 4: Hadn't being that one Warriors game probably did that on its own.
00:40:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's pretty sweet. I'm going to enjoy that one forever. But I just I can't wait to see this, you know test. It's a styles make fights type of battle and this is going to be really really good and excited we get to do it twice in an eight day span. So, Andrew, thank you so much for coming on. I understand you got to get going. Really really do appreciate it. Before we let you go, let the people know where they can find your work.
00:41:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, go check out The Athletic NBA Daily. It's a really fun podcast hosted by Dave Defour, I host the Saturday show with my buddy Alex Spears. But super fun show that's in your podcast feed every single morning. It's about twenty minutes just recapping everything that happened.
00:41:27
Speaker 6: The night before.
00:41:28
Speaker 5: So go check out The Athletic NBA Daily. If you want Thunder content, go check out down to Dunk.
00:41:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:41:35
Speaker 5: I would appreciate follows and listens all over the place absolutely well.
00:41:41
Speaker 2: I think I mentioned this before when you have me on, but the Slim and Jammy is the only weekend podcast I listened to. I made the time for it because I absolutely love that podcast. No normally weekends are podcast free for me, but I always make a point to tune in. Thank you so much for coming on, and thank you so much for our listeners for tuning in. Make sure you guys like subscribe click that notification BELSI you know when we're going Live. If you're listening via podcast and you want to support us, leave us a rating, leave review, subscribe unsubscribed, resubscribe and help cook those books. You want to be part of Chase Doown's exclusive discord chat Cindy screenshow or via to Chase doownpotot gmail dot com. However you choose to support us, we really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are staying safe out there. Until next time, Go Cat
Speaker 1: This crowd rises to speak what Carlos slammed it out? Carl left wing free ball perfect Darlin pop then helift block the shot at the rim pow with the left hand head of fowl.
00:00:15
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Chase Down Podcast, part of the Caves Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Down is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including fan Duel Sports Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV dot com Slash Calves.
00:00:32
Speaker 1: Well.
00:00:32
Speaker 2: The Calves and Thunder both did their parts. The Oklahoma City Thunder are riding a fifteen game winning streak, the Cleveland Cavaliers riding a ten game winning streak. We have one of the most exciting regular season matchups that I can remember. Coming up and joining me today my same old co host, Carter Rodriguez.
00:00:49
Speaker 3: Carter, how you doing, buddy.
00:00:50
Speaker 4: I'm doing good, Buddy. I went to Calves Hornets, which was super fun. I took my nephew for his first Calves game, which was great, and we got to sit courtside brother.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: About a full game.
00:01:03
Speaker 4: So that was that was a pretty special Big things to the Cavs for helping me look like the coolest uncle in the entire world. It was his first game, and I was like, we ruined sports for this kid. He's nine and it'll never be as good as it was.
00:01:18
Speaker 1: Last night.
00:01:19
Speaker 2: I saw courtside Carter getting tackled by it Cody Martin.
00:01:23
Speaker 4: That was Cody Martin dove for a loose ball right into my legs.
00:01:27
Speaker 1: I won't lie. It hurt a little bit. You know. No word on how Cody's doing, you know, prayers up.
00:01:34
Speaker 3: Hopefully he's not on the injury report.
00:01:36
Speaker 2: But we got a really exciting matchup, as I talked about at the start of this podcast coming up.
00:01:41
Speaker 3: I could not be more excited.
00:01:42
Speaker 2: We are joined today by executive podcast producer for The Athletic and the host of the Saturday Slamm and Jam and Down to Dunk podcast, Andrew Schleck.
00:01:50
Speaker 3: Andrew, how you doing, man, guys? I'm doing great.
00:01:54
Speaker 5: I could not believe that we got to this point, you know that we saw I saw this matchup coming up and thought, Okay, this would be great. I thought maybe the thunder will lose a couple of these games leading up to it, but the fact that both teams are riding these big winning streaks just gives this matchup so much more juice.
00:02:10
Speaker 6: I'm so pumped up.
00:02:12
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting parallel with both of these teams, not only in how hot they are, but basically like both of these teams are off to historic starts. I was listening to the Down to Dunk podcast and I heard you mentioned that you felt that this was the best Oklahoma City Thunder team that you've seen. And you know, from a CALVS standpoint, we're also in a very similar boat where you know, Calves have had, you know, really really great players in their history. Lebron James pretty decent player. You know, from an Oklahoma City standpoint, you have Kevin Durant pretty good player, Russell Westbrook pretty good player. James aren't pretty good player. But despite you know, not necessarily having those all time stars present, both of these franchises yet good correction, both of these franchises are sitting here with teams that are setting franchise records off to franchise best pace. And I just want you to kind of elaborate on what makes you feel that this is the best Thunder team that you've seen.
00:03:09
Speaker 5: It's funny because Jared Allen recently talked about ethical basketball, and I think, like that's probably happening for both teams right now. You think about just the way that both teams share the ball and the way that both teams play in the offensive end, like they're both looking for the right shots, and so that to me is probably something that defines the team. And really for the Thunder, the thing that defines it more than anything is their defense. I mean the fact that they have a one h two defensive rating right now when we're already in January and they haven't had the full team yet. I mean this is mostly without Chet. They're nineteen and one with Hartenstein, and a lot of it has been just the defense. They just absolutely hound you. They've got great point of attack defenders, they obviously have great rim protection, and then you have the guys in between with Jada and Shay who are just super disruptive defenders, and like that to me has defined it, and that is the reason that they are the best Thunder team in my opinion, is just the defense is so dominant, and then they play in unselfish style on the other end. And then it's also the depth I mentioned chets Out Cruso has only played in seven of these games of the fifteen that they've won. They just have guys that continue to step up and continue.
00:04:24
Speaker 6: To play well.
00:04:24
Speaker 5: Aaron Wiggins has played really well the past couple of games. We've seen rookie A J. Mitchell, who's been out of the lineup for just this past game, but he's stepped up in a big way at times. Lou Dort was great in the second half against Boston. You know, they just have great depth and that is probably one of the bigger separators for them as well as that and I think that's probably the same thing for the Calves that they just continue to just whoever they put out there is going to produce at some level.
00:04:52
Speaker 2: Yeah it's no no, you Oh well, now you're drinking, so I might as well. I definitely has been kind of the the story of the season, right Like there's been times where, you know, even going down to the more like the common staggering pairings that Kenny Atkinson is using in the past, Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley, those lineups didn't work. They had a negative net rating through two years. You know, the Darius Garland Jared Allen pairing worked really well in their All Star season, not so great the last two years. But it seems like every you know, combination that Kenny Atkinson has used this year has been really successful. And despite the fact that this team isn't really chasing wins, like they're keeping guys out a little longer playing it's safe with injuries. No one's really playing over thirty minutes. It's just kind of resulting in wins because you know, the Thunder are doing it with one of the best defenses I've ever seen, and the Cads are doing it with you know, the best offense that the league has seen through thirty five games.
00:05:49
Speaker 6: Yeah, it is fun seeing the contrast.
00:05:51
Speaker 3: Go go ahead, Carter.
00:05:52
Speaker 6: What do you have to say, my man?
00:05:53
Speaker 1: Oh, not too much, not too much.
00:05:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is it does feel like this is like I think part of the reason I think we can all gets so excited for this is it's not only just a game between two great teams. It's it's like the ultimate styles make fights type of game. You know, the Calves are big, the Thunder are, you know. Hartnerstein excluded small. The Calves are this electric offense. The Thunder are this, you know, unbelievably stifling defense, and you know, and beyond that, I feel like neither is even really even gotten got you know, It's like it's not like the Calves have had maybe one game where against Atlanta where I think they have had a sub one hundred offensive rating. I mean and even in you know, like you look at that Cup final loss for the Thunder, which of course doesn't count no one, no one's no, no one's counted.
00:06:43
Speaker 6: Happens in Vegas, Man, what happens in Vegas?
00:06:45
Speaker 1: What happens in Vegas?
00:06:47
Speaker 4: But you know, like other than that, even when they lose, it's like their offense kind of lets them down like that, I feel like the defense has been the one like no matter what, Like, why do you think it is that Okaye is just getting absolutely like it doesn't feel like teams have the variance game against them where they just can't miss and Okay, see gives up one thirty. You know everyone else has those games. Why doesn't it happen to Oka?
00:07:13
Speaker 1: See?
00:07:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, they just have.
00:07:14
Speaker 5: Such a strong baseline of defense and it's and it's the guys that continue to come in. I mean, it's it's case and Wallace has started a majority of games for the Thunder, but he and lou Dort are interchangeable at times. I think that that helps a lot. And it's really just like the energy, Like the energy just strangely doesn't waiver, and you would think that would be something that would eventually waiver for a team, but it just really hasn't. And I think a lot of that starts with the leadership from Shay.
00:07:42
Speaker 6: Like Shay.
00:07:44
Speaker 5: He wants to win so badly and he will bring the energy on both ends every single night. And I think those guys look to him and they decide we're going to play like him, and that, to me, is probably the tone setter for this team, but a lot of it has been. To me, it's it's when Chet was in the lineup. I mean, teams were shooting fifty three percent at the rom when Chet was in the game, which is just wild. But Hertenstein is one of the better rim protectors in the league. And he doesn't have like the fancy block numbers. He's averaging at one point four blocks per game, but he just is really good at switching and he's really good at preventing guys from getting into the paint or getting to the rim. He's super physical and I think that he has been a huge reason why and just having one of those centers in the game just helps so much. And it's just hard to imagine what it'll look like having both of them, you know, at some point where I don't know how much they'll play together, but they'll certainly stagger them. You'll have forty eight minutes of those guys. But I think that it starts with the primer defenders, the point of attack guys in lou Dort, in Case and Wallace, and then when you have a guy like Hertenstein on the back line, it really helps. And Jalen Williams too is probably an underrated defender. He's got to defend a lot of bigger guys. My guess is that he'll defend Evan Mobley for a vast majority of the time on Wednesday, and he has done really well. He defended Towns the other night, like that was his primary assignment. He did very well with Towns. It kind of took him out of his game. Towns didn't take a three in the game against the Thunder, which was just really strange.
00:09:16
Speaker 4: He has weird games like that where it's like, why aren't you doing the thing that you do?
00:09:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was almost like he was like the Thunderlight gave him like this like nineteen nineties chip or something they put into his brain. They're like, you're big, you better get get down on the block, buddy.
00:09:32
Speaker 3: It was.
00:09:32
Speaker 6: It was strange. It was very strange. But Jada did a good job.
00:09:35
Speaker 5: And he's a guy that I think probably goes a little bit under the radar on the defensive end, but he will get those like big either the big wings or like the big power forward assignments, and he's done a very good job even despite the fact that he's I mean, he's labels as a shooting guard on.
00:09:54
Speaker 2: Basketball Reference and that's probably, you know, a testament to how good of a job both ch at Home Grene and I say Hardenstein have done as a rim protector, because you know, even though he's holding his own as a power forward, having that back line support really helps. And I was looking at the numbers last year, opponents were shooting eleven point four percent worse at the rim with chet defending. It was eleven point two with Hartenstein with the Knicks, right, So when you have two guys like that, like you said, it's it really does give you really high floor defensively, and you know you said that you're not sure how it's going to look when both are available to the thunder. You're kind of copying our notes. You know, you could just look over the Cleveland Cavaliers and how they always have one of Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. I'm really excited to see what chet Holmgren looks like as kind of that roaming power forward getting to kind of spread his wings on the defensive end as Evan Mobley is able to. And you mentioned it, you know, with Jalen Williams defending Evan Mobley. I'm really curious to see how that looks because, you know, one of the kind of things that Carter and I have highlight over the last couple of years is when you're building an offense around two smaller guards, you need to have that frontcourt playmaker to alleviate what teams can do to them defensively, and the Thunder of a lot of length, you know, even though they're playing a shooting guard to power forward, there's a lot of point of attack defense. Lou Dort has done a phenomenal job on Donovan Mitchell. Shae is going I assume he's going to probably guard Darius to start the game. Like that's a lot of length to kind of throw at them. And I'm really curious to see what Oklahoma City does to disrupt Evan Mobley because I kind of expect him to be, you know, key to freeing up the Cavs offense. Do you expect them to play straight up? Like is that basically how Jalen Williams been playing these matchups?
00:11:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, I expect it to be straight up for sure, and I think they'll probably have Shae on whoever is going to be on the wing, and then they'll probably have Casea Wallace Gotcha guarding Garland. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see because I do think it will be straight up on Evan Mobley. And I don't know, and I know I'm talking to a Cavs audience right now, but I don't know that like the Thunder audience or other people really quite understand how good Evan's become on the offensive end. Like what I do want to flip this on you guys, like what what have been like the biggest improvements that you've seen, And how has he fared against like smaller guys that guard him.
00:12:20
Speaker 4: Well, I think I'll jump in and just say I think that he's done a much better job of mashing these mashing switches, mashing mismatch. He's just functionally a lot stronger. And it's not in the way that you kind of imagine that what big strong Evan Mobley would be. A lot of it's just he doesn't get knocked off as center of gravity as much anymore, and he has such pogo stick jumping ability where he gets off the ground really really easy. A lot of the time he's just high pointing floaters and layups when he's rim attacking. And it's not that he's you know, I mean every now and again, like he had one last night against Nick Richards I think, or maybe it was Mark Williams, I don't remember. Where he does do the step through and dig the elbow in and go up and rise up. But a lot of it is he catches and just he's up, he gets a bump and he's on the way to the hoop and he is up in the air faster than the defender is. And if you're if you're not off balance when you're rising and you're six feet from the hoop and you're the size that Evan Mobley has, it's just an easy it's functionally an uncontested layup. So, like, I think the worst version of Evan Mobley even today is the guy who goes bump bump, bump, spin move, spin, move bump to try to like worm his way to the hoop for a dunk. Like he can do it still, and like there are certain possessions where he gets it, but I think really where he's been best is when he's catching on the move, catching with advantage and it's just step step rise, and like it's just too hard of an angle for smaller players to guard. And then you know, and then when biggs are on him historic at least this year, they just haven't been able to keep up with him, and handles tighter when they bump him again, the center of gravity is good and he's just stepping around people.
00:14:12
Speaker 1: Now.
00:14:12
Speaker 4: Hartenstein is a calves killer. He is very very very good against Jared Allen. He is very very good against Evan because not only is he big and strong, he's smart and he's athletic something a quick little Hartenstein note, And I don't want to pivot too hard because it was a good question, and I don't and it's certainly worth the throwing off your game. I'm sorry, No, it's it's fine. I just was looking up when you were talking about Hartenstein. He's only averaging three and a half fouls per thirty six and literally his entire career he's been around five to the highest he ever had was nine fouls for thirty six. So he's got some kind of secret sauce going where he's able to play as physically as he always has, but now he's not giving you any easy ones. And like so I think I think both j Dubb and Hartenstein kind of provide different challenges for Mobile, but like to Justin's point, he's going to have to figure it out.
00:15:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see because we've seen him attack, you know, some smaller defenders, we've seen him attack larger ones. And I think Carter did a really good job with the breakdown there. But I think what I find about this matchup that's so interesting is the Cavs approach offense differently than the Boston Celtics or the New York Knicks. This is something that we've talked about a fair bit recently, where you know, Boston's really looking to find that mismatch on every possession, right like, let's get the switch we want and let's attack in isolation, and you know, if they bring help, we're going to kick it out to an open shooter. Oklahoma City held Boston to the second worst shot quality game of the season, and you know, there really isn't that mismatch to pick on. You know, there are strong defenders up and down that lineup, and I think that's why you've seen Boston drop some of these games, like even to Orlando, those incredibly short handed it just wasn't the mismatch to kind of pick on. Whereas the Calves, they kind of take it as a we're going to run our offense no matter who's guarding us, and we just trusted to get good shots. And I think mobiley getting the ball with advantage and attacking within the flow of the offense. Donovan Darius, That's what we want to see if the Cavs are able to do against this elite of a defense, because, as Carter said, when Mobile is just kind of playing mismatch basketball. I don't think that that's the most effective version of them. But I think the question is really going to be can the Thunder disrupt what the Calves are doing offensively and get them into the mud, because I think from a matchup standpoint, that's what we really want to see. Is there something from the Oklahoma City standpoint that you're kind of looking interested to learn with this matchup against Cleveland?
00:16:48
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I'm very interested to see how the two big front court does against the Thunder, just because they are a little bit small everywhere else that have good length, they're strong, and they're pesky. But I'm just really curious to see how their defense works because they are just They're all about packing the paint and swarming whoever gets to the paint. The Celtics scored really well at the rim to start the game. I think they were twelve or thirteen in the first half, and the Thunder just shut the water off in the second half and they just brought more energy, more physicality, and it's going to take them doing that really probably for forty eight minutes. That's one thing that I want to see too, is like, can the Thunder actually get off to a good start because they did not get off to a good start against the Knicks, did not get off to a good start against the Celtics. They had these incredible third and fourth quarters that kind of was this avalanche of points and an avalanche of just guys in the paint just keeping the other team from scoring. And so I'm interested to see if that works. Neither team was really able to make the Thunder pay from the corners too. The Thunder give up more corner threes than any team in the NBA, and so I'm wondering if the Calves can make the Thunder pay for that strategy. I think that's that's the strategy that I think really killed the Thunder against the Mavericks last year in the playoffs was that Luca is A is just like an expert at hitting the corners from any point on the court, and so he got those guys wide open shots and they made them. You know, I think that's another kind of Achilles heel for the Thunder defense, is that if you are intent on getting the ball to the corner, it's eventually going to be open. Because the Thunder are just they would rather give up the corner three than any shot in the paint, and so I'm just curious to see if the Calves can find those weak spots and exploit the thunder defense in that way.
00:18:40
Speaker 4: It's kind of interesting to hear, like, you know, because you know, when you're not deep into the end of watching okay see, you kind of just assume it's like this impregnable fortress that you know, you're just not gonna be able to make hay On in any real spot, and then you kind of hear this kind of stuff and you realize, like everyone picks a poison in the aend, like there is no there is no perfect defense. There is no perfect scheme, perfect personnel that makes it so you just don't have to give up anything. And obviously the Calves shooting it and three point uh uh, you know, barrage so far as the season has been, you know, probably the most public hallmark of what's made them special. But something I'm really interested to see is are they gonna be able to get downhill? Because you know, the point of attack defense is so strong, but it is super aggressive. This is a really aggressive turnover for saying okay, see team it are Evan and Jarrett going to be able to set good enough screens and are is okay, see gonna put two on the ball? Are they gonna switch? Are they gonna drop to and and are the Calves gonna be able to turn the corner? Because you know, you look at that Boston game and Boston is twenty seventh in the league and drives per game the Calves are fourth obviously. Okay, see right there at two. You know, the Nicks are in middle of the pack team in terms of, you know, really driving and getting into the paint of the defense.
00:20:05
Speaker 1: Do you think that.
00:20:08
Speaker 4: A guy like Garland, a guy like Mitchell who have you know, no one stopped him from getting into the teeth of the defense yet, but we do know hyper physical point of attack guards can junk them up. You know, we saw that in the Knick series a couple of years ago. We saw Orlando do it to them like it does feel like the personnel is there to kind of keep the Calves side to side. Do you think the Calves are going to be able to get down help?
00:20:31
Speaker 5: It's really really tough against dort and I think that he fights their screens so much they will do a fair amount of switching. You'll see that but he can fight over a screen better than almost anybody, and he's going to draw offensive fouls doing that. That's gonna be the biggest tests probably all season for the Calves. Is like, what does Donovan Mitchell do against lagaan start? Because that guy is just.
00:21:00
Speaker 2: In the past, Like he's some of his worst games, you know, uh, thinking back to when he was in the Western Conference and even in recent years have come with Dort on him.
00:21:09
Speaker 6: Yeah, he just Dort just doesn't stop.
00:21:11
Speaker 5: I mean Mark has I haven't heard Mark describe describe it this way in a long time, but he used to describe it as is he as if he like almost like blacks out on the court and he's like such so in the game that there's nothing you can do to take him out of it. And that's just how he plays. Even on the offensive end too.
00:21:29
Speaker 1: He did that.
00:21:29
Speaker 5: He's he started oh of eight against against the Celtics, and like, the dude just keeps shooting. He just doesn't care. He's just in the game. He's in the moment and that's how he is. And Caseo Wallace is not that far off from that same mentality. And so to have two of those guys there I don't know what Caruso's status is yet, he's he's missed what I what feels like enough time to where we can start talking about him coming back, which would be like adding another player that is pretty similar in the way that he plays defense to this group. I do think that if the Thunder are good at anything, it's they're good at keeping guys from getting downhill and getting into the paint and so and they certainly will pack that once somebody gets there. It's all about packing the paint, making them play in a crowd, and then you recover out to wherever the ball sprays out, whether that be back up top down to the corners. That that's where the Thunder are like really scrambling. And they've I say, they give up the most corner threes. They're also opponents aren't shooting that well on corner threes. They only shooting thirty six point eight percent, which I think is like I got top ten number for a team defense. And so they're they're they're recovering, but they're still giving up more than anybody else. They give it up eleven. No one else has given up eleven in the league this year. Everybody else like the Nets. It's funny because, like you look at the other teams that are giving up ten, it's like the Nets and the Wizards and the Pelicans, you know, other teams that are given up ten. It's like these teams that are certainly much worse than the Thunder. But yeah, they're going to pack the paint. It's to be a challenge. I think it'll be Donovan Mitchell a lot off the dribble for the Calves in order for them, if he's going to be like the main driver of offense, like, it's going to be probably a lot off off the dribble, step backs, pull ups, which he's certainly capable of. But the getting downhill part is going to be is going to be tough with Lou.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, this is what makes Oklahoma City probably one of the best defenses I've ever seen, right, Like the point of attack defense is so strong, but the help they're able to provide is just phenomenal. It's kind of similar to zoom Ai Companion in that way. Because only you can do your best work, zoom Ai Companion can help you do the rest, like automatically taking notes, answering meeting questions and helping you respond to your coworker failable no additional cost with eligible paid plans. We're happy with zoom Ai companion.
00:23:46
Speaker 4: Brother, you don't catch me off guard that often anymore. What a unique attack that ad was. For a second there, I was like, I don't know what he's saying, and I it's that doesn't happen very often, and I'm on a basketball podcast. I was like, man, I don't know what the zume thing is, but I'm really interested to find out.
00:24:05
Speaker 2: You know, I That's That's what I'm going for us. I'm here to get people off their feet and out of their comfort zone, similar to what the Oklahoma City Thunder will try to do with their defense. I'm I'm I couldn't be more excited for this matchup. I think Shay right now is the MVP front runner as a Canadian. That makes me thrilled. You know, Shay was absolutely awesome for Team Canada and you know, showing off that ethnical hoops even though he gets you know, some crap for foul bating disgust right now, he was able to get it done in Foba when they're allowing that physicality, unlike some other stars that couldn't handle it.
00:24:42
Speaker 3: Shake Shae can do both.
00:24:43
Speaker 2: He can do both. He's very versatile. But what I'm really excited about is they're almost.
00:24:48
Speaker 3: Mirror images of one another.
00:24:51
Speaker 2: Right, Like we both know the Cavs have the best offense and the Thunder had the best defense. But you know, even when you weigh it to like quality of opponent, it like down to every single category. They're you know, Oklahoma City Thunder is the best defense against top ten offenses in the league. The Calves are the best offense against top ten defenses in the league. You look at half court offense, the Calves are number one and half court offense, the Thunder number one and half court defense. The Thunder or number seven and a half court offense. The Caves are number six and half court defense. It's like mirror images every single category. And you know you talked about them trying to get downhill and get the ball movement going. The Thunder are the best team in the league at generating steals. Austin was able to kind of avoid that because they play such isolation basketball, But for a Cavs team that really relies on ball movement, that's going to be a really interesting challenge because the Calves do the third best job in the league taking care of the ball and not turning the ball over, But are they able to do that against Oklahoma City's defense. It's just like, from top to bottom, I couldn't be more excited about kind of the styles make fights of this because you know, it really in the NBA right now, in this parody field league, it's a big game of rock paper scissors and the cavesmen walking around with this rock and they're like, it's.
00:26:05
Speaker 3: Rock rocks, dude, this is great.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: Uh, And we're just kind of trying to see, Okay, when does the paper come?
00:26:13
Speaker 3: And I think that's what makes this so interesting.
00:26:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, where's the I feel like I'm just looking for the theoretical, uh, you know, extreme of each version of this team, you know, like, and I think we'll learn a lot, you know, because I do think there's a world where okay See wins a game that's in the one twenties, because like, it's not like either of these teams are bad at the other side of the ball. You know, the Calves are a top seven defense, Okay See is a top eight offense. Like, certainly both teams can kind of play either way, And I got to ask a little bit about the the other end of the floor, which is, how is okay See gonna score enough to stick keep up with the Calves? Like we spend a lot of time talking about how the calves are gonna, you know, all the challenges they're going to have to score.
00:27:01
Speaker 1: Is okay See?
00:27:02
Speaker 4: Do you think the case is going to reliably be able to get buckets against what I would consider to be the best shell defense in the league, Like if oka See are the best chaos defense, I think the calves are the best when you when you can't get them into rotation.
00:27:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess my question would be who who do you think gets the assignment for Shay.
00:27:22
Speaker 4: I think it'll be assuming Noel kro because you know he's still recovering from that shoulder injury.
00:27:28
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be Dean Wade.
00:27:30
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be Dean Wade, and he is I think much better at guarding the big Burley Jason Tatums of the world than the say, so that could be you know, that could be a scab to pick at right away.
00:27:43
Speaker 2: It's going to be the biggest test because I remember two years ago, like it was genius to really struggle, like he defended threes and four as well, but when it came to kind of shift your guards, he would get really handsy. And know who, he can't get handsy with Shaite because those arms are going up and he's going to abuse you. And I remember there's a game two years ago where Shay just kind of got Dean in immediate foul trouble. He's done a better job of that. But I kind of, you know, if I'm looking at ideal matchups, I would much prefer Isaac Ocord to be available in this game. You know, it's kind of the the Caz version of lou Dort, you know, screen navigating, great point of attack defender that's learned how to shoot the threes. But I kind of I agree with Carter, But I also expect there to be a healthy amount of Darius on shape, Like it's going they're going to hunt screens, They're going to try to get it done. The calves like the Thunder play those possessions straight up. Boston basically ran continuous action to get Tatum onto Garland, and Garland held his.
00:28:41
Speaker 3: Own in those spots.
00:28:42
Speaker 2: So I kind of expect no matter who's starting on Shae, there's going to be a good number of Darius on shape possessions.
00:28:49
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:28:49
Speaker 4: I mean, the reality is the Calves are one of the switchiest teams in the league this year, you know, way way way up.
00:28:55
Speaker 1: Than they were under JB.
00:28:56
Speaker 4: Bickerstaff, and part of me, you know, and I do think that's strategy they should probably pursue here because you know, the reality is you're gonna have Dean Evan or Jared on the back line protecting if Shae beats whoever is on the ball, So you know, and I think the more that you can gunk up like okay, so he is a gunkable offense, like you can slow them down. Can you talk a little bit about like what tends to happen during those kind of fallow periods in the offense for someone who hasn't watched a lot of Okay, see.
00:29:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, it typically happens when Shay's off the court. They have not really found a true rhythm with Shay off the court. They were I felt like they were starting to find it and then Aj Mitchell sprained his toe, but Aj was kind of coming in as the backup point guard and he would play a lot with Jadab in those lineups, and I think that was certainly something that helped the offense. But it's usually when Shay's off the court and Jadab is trying to find his way as like a driver and a playmaker and a score in his own right, which he has had a ton of success and he's had a ton of failure with that. Even recently he only had ten points against the cav or against the Celtics, and so I think that he the the real times when the thunder struggle is when it's Jade in there as the guy that's running the offense, and then the other guys just aren't hitting. Isaiah Joe has gone through a drought recently. Aaron Wiggins has kind of come out of that. He's been really good the last few games. But it's it's when role players aren't hitting shots, and it's usually when Shay's off the court. Shay's is going to get his like Shay's going to come in, He's going to get thirty. But it really is who else is stepping up on a night to night basis, and they have a lot of guys that are capable of doing it. We've seen we have seen it be Isaiah Joe at some points this season. We saw Cason Wallace was great against Boston. The other day, lou Dort was hitting his threes. But they're all a little streaky, and they're really the games that they've lost. The one that happened and the Cup game was just like everybody was off, you know, Yeah, you know, Shay is doing his thing, but nobody else could.
00:31:07
Speaker 6: Hit, which was a problem.
00:31:09
Speaker 5: These are they lost to They lost to the Spurs without Wimby. It was a very strange game.
00:31:14
Speaker 6: It was.
00:31:14
Speaker 5: It was probably I talked about that energy that they always have. That was probably their lowest energy game of the season.
00:31:20
Speaker 1: I think it was.
00:31:20
Speaker 2: Probably that's a defensible one where you look across from You're like, Spurs, no Wemby, Yeah.
00:31:26
Speaker 3: We probably can, we can, we can go with our B plus today.
00:31:29
Speaker 6: Yeah that's kind of how it felt.
00:31:32
Speaker 5: But yeah, to me, it's it's just that you don't get enough from the role players and you're not getting enough from Jada, which has happened, you know, in this in this season. But I'm interested to see what how Shay gets into the mid range because he loves to get to the hoop.
00:31:46
Speaker 6: He loves to drive.
00:31:47
Speaker 5: He'll draw fouls, certainly, but I think that the thing that he's become like one of the best at is like just getting to that mid range jumper. And like my curiosity is, like, how have the Cavs handled guys that get to that mid range jumper and what does that looked like?
00:32:04
Speaker 2: I mean, if we're talking about Shay hunting the switches and Garland being on him and Shaye just shooting over him from the mid range, the kads are going to say, Okay, we're going to live with this, like we don't care if you hit your next seven. We're not going to bring help. We are going to stay in our shell defense and you know, we're we're just going to live with this, like we're going to basically count on you not getting other people involved in those actions. And that's how they approached you know, the game against Boston, Like the game in Boston didn't have a single small forward active for that game. Garland had one of his shoot we're shooting games of you know, his career and still yeah, and it ended up being, you know, a three point loss, still because you know, Boston kept going to those Tatum actions and you know, the the end result was a very inefficient points for you know, possession on those spots. I expect Shay to be more efficient in those, but I think they're they're going to they would live with it, like that's basically been their defensive philosophy throughout, you know, this season, and you know, I'm curious to see if that shifts, if she's getting you know, Garland into foul trouble or you know, if he's able to really get to the rim and break down that shell because he is such a talented ball handler. And you know, for all the people that complain about the game being played the same way and every team plays the same style, I really hope they tune in Wednesday because this is a matchup of like two teams that play the way everyone claims they want teams to play like the Cavs play this, you know, twenty fourteen Spurs ball movement style. Evan Mobley's playing as a seven foot draymon. Like the ball just has so much momentum. They get those shots up. How they generate the shots varies. It's not a lot of isolation, Shaye is you know, everything people say that you know they miss about like Kobe and you know all the mid range assassins of yesteryear. Shay is able to do that in like a modern way, Like this absolutely should be a game that people that complain about basketball being played the Celtics ways should be tuning into.
00:34:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think that it's obviously a game that has been like flexed in. I think both the thunder Cass games have been, which is great to see. I just hope people will actually watch. I hope so too, because this is I mean, this is it is going to be such a fun matchup and it's like two teams that were built in ways that I think fans can get attached to as well. And I think that's true of the Celtics as well. Saying this again about the Celtics matchup, but just like teams that were built in a way that you get to kind of grow, the fan base gets to grow with the team, which is just really it's just really cool, and it just builds this momentum like in the community and with the team and online and everything. I just hope that we can see this kind of collision course of both these teams Wednesday night, and that the league promotes it in the right way and then these can shine. I just hope that we get like a good game, like I really helped to blowout in either direction, because I want both teams to be showcased in a way that is favorable. And it's going to be highlighted on Sports Center and whatever and wherever else because like, it's just it to me, it's a it's a really important game.
00:35:17
Speaker 6: And two small markets as well.
00:35:19
Speaker 2: I was going to say it's it's two small markets not far removed from losing like a once in a generation talent, right like, and these aren't teams that have the advantages of you know, other markets where Okay, like we we left on a couple of things, but you know we Hollywood's here, so we can sign Lebron if we want.
00:35:35
Speaker 3: Like it's you know, it's.
00:35:37
Speaker 2: Look, look how long Chicago has been trying to get it going out after losing Michael Jordan, right Like, it's it's not an easy thing to do. And both of these teams were built in really organic ways, you know. Obviously, Okay, see you got some some halls for some of their players. Cavs managed to get the initial Kyrie return and transform that into you know, Sexton Lowry and Jared Allen, So it was a bit of a recovery from the initial trade.
00:36:04
Speaker 3: But you know, these are.
00:36:05
Speaker 2: Teams that, as you said, were built in really organic ways, and I just think it's so interesting that both of them have like these strengths, you know, the immovable object versus you know, an unstoppable force, and also like their weaknesses aren't really things that the other team can pick on, right, Like, the Calves are not the best defensive rebounding team. They're twenty first in defensive rebound rate, but okay see's twenty six in offensive rebound rate, right or twenty fifth, okay see, not a very good defensive rebounding team either. They're twenty eight, the Calves twenty six in offensive rebound rates, so they don't really like take advantage of those. I think the only thing you could really point to is that, okay see does allow you know, the the third most wide open threes, and you know, for the season, teams have shot the twenty fourth percentage on those shots. Calves have shot incredibly well on wide open shots. But as we said before, whether they're able to get downhill and actually generate those shots I think it's going to be a really big.
00:37:01
Speaker 4: Question, and I also think for what it's worth, like it just goes to show like the difference in like what a wide open shot means against the Chicago Bulls versus what a wide open shot means against Okay, where you've expended so much energy to earn that wide open shot, even if you earn a lot of them, like you're just gonna have heavier legs, you're gonna you've got you've got a crazy person flying at you on a close out, like and you know, like and you know that, like you might have had three or four possessions in a row where you didn't get a lot of rhythm, or you got the ball ripped from you a couple of times, and like all of a sudden, that wide open shot just feels real important to make and you better make it, and then up you get in your head and then you miss. So like I do think there's like a lot of like even with those metrics, like you know, a wide open shot just isn't the same against Okay see as it is against the Bulls or the Pacers or some of these other teams that you know, you can kind of make in that way offensively against.
00:38:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be really really interesting.
00:38:06
Speaker 2: I it looks exhausting to generate those open shots against Okac. I normally give up twenty four games. We have to work for all of those. I guess the last question I have basically about, you know, kind of the tactical matchup here. Gas run a lot of zone. How has OKAC kind of performed against those defenses in the past, Like they've been kind of a historically a low three point shooting team like Shay and j Dubbed didn't really have great volume prior to this year.
00:38:36
Speaker 3: They've managed to up that.
00:38:38
Speaker 2: But have they kind of had enough shooting to overcome some of those zone looks teams have thrown at them so far this season.
00:38:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, they've done much better against zone. And I think some of that too is like you can get the ball into heart and Stein in the middle of the floor.
00:38:51
Speaker 1: They able to make this savon man. Yeah, I think smart.
00:38:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, that has helped a ton because last year you throw a zone at the Thunder, they look like they never played basketball before. Like it it did not look good. And some of it was you have Josh Giddy on the perimeter he gets the ball and it's like a record scratch, and he's they're kind of leave him out there to make the decision, like they're just daring him to shoot.
00:39:14
Speaker 6: And now you don't have that.
00:39:15
Speaker 5: You know, when the ball is moving, it's going to hit the hands of somebody. Even if guys aren't guarding Dort, he's going to shoot it. If guys aren't guarding case of Wallace, he's going to shoot it. You know, there's not the disruptive from the flow of offense anymore once they once they see his own. And so they've actually fared pretty well. They've played. They've been able to crack zones a lot faster than they did last time, and so I'm interested to see that as well. I think that it is a true test for them and a true test for like Hertenstein with this group, to see if they can actually crack it.
00:39:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, a true test is what these teams have wanted to have, right Like, Okay, see, he didn't get that chance when when they played Memphis because everyone was out, and then you know, they just had to really big tests and they pass both of them. Even though those games didn't get off the great starts, they managed to kind of have those comebacks, and you know, from a cast perspective, we've been sitting here really kind of wanting to see the team tested as well.
00:40:11
Speaker 1: Right, Like, I want this one too much, Andrew.
00:40:14
Speaker 3: I really want this one.
00:40:15
Speaker 2: Like it. You know, when when Golden State came into Cleveland, it was okay. You know, this is the second best defense in the league. The issue that the Cavs have had going to the playoffs is the defense holds up. As much as people talk about getting a big wing defender, the defense has always been really great.
00:40:29
Speaker 3: In the playoffs, the.
00:40:30
Speaker 2: Offense goes to crap. And you know, so far they've held up against top ten defenses, you know, best offense in the league.
00:40:37
Speaker 3: In those scenarios.
00:40:38
Speaker 2: It's actually better than their season offensive rating.
00:40:42
Speaker 3: Which is hard to believe, but there just.
00:40:44
Speaker 4: Hadn't being that one Warriors game probably did that on its own.
00:40:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's pretty sweet. I'm going to enjoy that one forever. But I just I can't wait to see this, you know test. It's a styles make fights type of battle and this is going to be really really good and excited we get to do it twice in an eight day span. So, Andrew, thank you so much for coming on. I understand you got to get going. Really really do appreciate it. Before we let you go, let the people know where they can find your work.
00:41:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, go check out The Athletic NBA Daily. It's a really fun podcast hosted by Dave Defour, I host the Saturday show with my buddy Alex Spears. But super fun show that's in your podcast feed every single morning. It's about twenty minutes just recapping everything that happened.
00:41:27
Speaker 6: The night before.
00:41:28
Speaker 5: So go check out The Athletic NBA Daily. If you want Thunder content, go check out down to Dunk.
00:41:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:41:35
Speaker 5: I would appreciate follows and listens all over the place absolutely well.
00:41:41
Speaker 2: I think I mentioned this before when you have me on, but the Slim and Jammy is the only weekend podcast I listened to. I made the time for it because I absolutely love that podcast. No normally weekends are podcast free for me, but I always make a point to tune in. Thank you so much for coming on, and thank you so much for our listeners for tuning in. Make sure you guys like subscribe click that notification BELSI you know when we're going Live. If you're listening via podcast and you want to support us, leave us a rating, leave review, subscribe unsubscribed, resubscribe and help cook those books. You want to be part of Chase Doown's exclusive discord chat Cindy screenshow or via to Chase doownpotot gmail dot com. However you choose to support us, we really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are staying safe out there. Until next time, Go Cat
