WEBVTT
00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:20.559
Welcome to the Real Bible Rob teamcast.
00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.879
Do you know if your beliefs are the right ones?
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.199
I think people need to be more accepting of each other's faith.
00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:34.560
You know, loving people who are different and believe differently than you do.
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.119
So where do you kind of like draw the line?
00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:46.399
Well, I think that uh Romans 14 is one of the best chapters in all of the Bible in the New Testament.
00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:52.240
And it's because it really kind of helps us through this thought process.
00:00:52.479 --> 00:01:03.119
I just did an episode last week where I talked about being jerks for Jesus and being, you know, about aggressive um evangelism and aggressive apologetics.
00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:16.959
And um I did that with some ideas that well, maybe that might offend some people because you know there are a lot of people out there that are very convinced that they are right and they have the right faith.
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:26.640
And um uh, you know, I didn't I don't do it to offend people, but I just do want people to think differently and not be so judgmental toward other people.
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:29.599
This is why I like Romans 14 so much.
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:50.480
So I'll explain that here and why it's such a great chapter, why um it how it fits in with what Paul was talking about through the whole book of Romans, the probably one of the hardest books to kind of understand in the New Testament, maybe except for Revelation, but um super important.
00:01:50.879 --> 00:02:00.239
I remember the first time I read Romans, I was 16 years old, I think 15 or 16, and um I was blown away by it.
00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.879
Um, I found it very interesting.
00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:17.520
Um, and now many, many years later, and I've read it many times uh in different ways, and I'm still blown away by Romans and how important it is, probably for the uh reasons that are a little different than what some other people think.
00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:35.039
Um there's a quote from a very famous and wise Christian pastor and uh theologian uh from about a hundred years ago named Carl Bart, uh, very important to us uh in my church, in the Presbyterian church, but on many other churches too.
00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:42.319
And he said, Romans 14 is for people who have read the whole letter and understand it.
00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:50.960
And that's really kind of interesting because most people who read uh Romans 14 kind of think it's an afterthought.
00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:58.560
Maybe all the important stuff has already been said by Paul, but no, this is the chapter uh and it starts right off.
00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:05.680
It says, Welcome the person who is weak in faith, but not in order to argue about differences of opinion.
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.719
Whoa, that isn't that an important thing for us to know.
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:23.599
Because, you know, a lot of people think they're right, and uh you probably uh even run into some people when they talk about their faith, they are so convinced that they're right, and they're gonna argue and they're gonna be mean about it.
00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:25.360
A lot of times it happens online.
00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:36.159
If you spend any time on uh, you know, YouTube or other uh things where people talk about theology, you can see how argumentative people really get about it.
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.719
And uh, that was my main thing that I was talking about with apologetics.
00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:44.560
It's argument instead of faithfulness.
00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:54.319
And um, it's really important that we uh understand exactly why this is now you might not like what other people believe.
00:03:54.639 --> 00:04:03.280
The chances are there are somebody you think that their beliefs are backwards, you might think that they're they're just wrong, you might think that they're silly or stupid.
00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:07.759
Um, it's just natural, but you still love them, right?
00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:09.840
And you want to try to understand them.
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.280
So, well, what does how does chapter 14 help?
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:15.039
And I'll I'll go through that.
00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:19.199
And how do you make it so that you don't you stop judging other people?
00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:31.040
Then after that, it's really more about just than just accepting other people, it's about welcoming other people, it's about being changed by them and and being in community with them.
00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:33.759
So then we have to kind of go to that next step.
00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.759
How far should we take it?
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:41.839
When does a belief uh fit you know with what you want and what you need?
00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:43.759
When is it a valid belief?
00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:48.160
Meaning, is it a belief that helps or harms other people?
00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:53.360
Um, what about other what about non-Christians, other faiths and everything like that?
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.279
Are they valid, not valid?
00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.120
And um, what does it mean to be in community with these people?
00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:06.800
And then most of all, what does it mean to be right, but then be completely wrong in how you treat other people?
00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:09.360
And I'll talk about that too.
00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:12.240
So let's get started with a couple things here.
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:27.360
Uh, in uh Romans 14, Paul is talking about um about two different groups of people that were kind of fighting each other, not getting along, about the Jewish converts and the Gentile converts, the Greek converts.
00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:36.800
And he says, uh, he goes, you know, you know, welcome the person who is weak in faith, but not in order to argue about differences of opinion.
00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:37.759
That's verse one.
00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:44.319
Number two is one person believes in eating everything while the weak person eats only vegetables.
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:51.439
There's a couple things in there that you need to know about what Paul's thinking and uh everything else.
00:05:51.600 --> 00:06:01.519
And then he says, those who eat must not look down on the ones who don't, and the ones who don't eat must not judge the ones that do, because God has accepted them.
00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:02.959
Wow.
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:09.120
You know, so these are people that may have very different beliefs about what they're eating.
00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:15.120
And what's important about this is not just what they're eating, it's about their identity, who they are.
00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:17.600
And I'll kind of explain that too.
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:22.079
Um, and then, you know, who are you to judge someone else's servants?
00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:29.920
Who are you to, you know, don't be a you know, but down in verse 13, it says, stop judging one one another.
00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:40.399
Instead, do what you should decide, never to put a stumbling block or an obstacle in the way of a brother or a sister.
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:48.240
In other words, you know, if your brother or your sister is upset with your food, and then you're no longer walking in love.
00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.160
In other words, you're insisting.
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.240
So let's back up a little bit.
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.360
Why all of this talk of food and why is it important?
00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:01.920
And then broaden it to the whole meaning of Paul's letter uh to the Romans.
00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:05.920
So um there are two groups I mentioned.
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:11.439
There's the the Jewish group, and there is the Gentile group.
00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:25.839
And Paul, remember, uh, was going out to the West, to Greece and to Rome and to all these places in order to um preach the gospel to the Gentiles.
00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.800
And these are the you know, non-Jewish people, right?
00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:32.240
To expand the church, accept new people.
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:48.959
And um he these communities remember back then there wasn't a clear distinction between um between uh Jewish people and uh and Christian people, Christian Jewish people.
00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:50.959
They met in synagogues.
00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:59.839
Um, Christianity for hundreds of years, uh, from Paul on was just considered another kind of Judaism for most people.
00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:09.920
That um there wasn't this huge difference, like we feel like or we keep hearing about, you know, there's Christians and then there's Jewish people, and that like they're different religions.
00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:11.439
They didn't think that way then.
00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:12.720
And Paul certainly didn't.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:26.879
If you read the rest of Romans, you can see that uh that there are beliefs that you know do separate the communities, but he didn't think of them as like different people, like we tend to do.
00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:38.399
The difference between people was more about whether they were Jewish and they uh lived according to Jewish practices, or whether they were Gentiles and they never were Jewish.
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:40.399
And he talks about that.
00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:43.919
So what what's what's all this talk about food?
00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:56.799
Well, in Rome, uh at the time, probably the the uh most frequently um eaten um uh meat was pork.
00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:58.960
Uh they ate a lot of pork in Rome.
00:08:59.120 --> 00:08:59.919
They still do today.
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:06.799
You go to uh you go to Italy and and large parts of Europe um and you find that people eat a lot of pork.
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:13.840
Uh it's just part kind of like the it's the you know, it's the meat of their cuisine, right?
00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:20.720
Um, they also ate things like shellfish and you know clams and and shrimp and things like that.
00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:32.559
Uh, again, those are the foods that you would um that you would eat and uh are today in these places, uh things like octopus, for example.
00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:45.919
Now you may not like octopus, but if you go to you know parts of uh Italy or Greece or southern France today, they eat a lot of things like that from the sea that Jewish people would definitely not eat.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:57.360
So in these communities, in these places, um instead of eating those meats that were regularly available, they would eat only vegetables.
00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:09.279
And Paul would, you know, and you know, maybe not only vegetables, but certainly they would only eat clean meats or clean things that, you know, clean according to Jewish laws.
00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:24.159
And you can tell that Paul already has a bias, already kind of has a feeling like those people who are keeping those um practices are um are weak.
00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.960
And he uses that and he says that numerous places, weak in faith.
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:52.399
He may not, he doesn't really mean it as a put down as we read it, but he definitely thinks that theologically, or you know, that it the right thing to do is to not think that you can't eat certain foods, that that being as a Christian, um, you can give up on those old rules uh uh from Judaism.
00:10:52.480 --> 00:11:04.240
And you can eat things like pork, you can eat things like shellfish and things like that, um, because the everything's clean now, and we see that a lot in um in there.
00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:14.080
But a lot of people in these communities just couldn't do it, and they felt like they needed to stay pure and they needed to stay clean.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.600
And that these are very strongly held ideas.
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:32.799
So even though Paul may think you don't have to do that anymore, um, he was dealing with people that were resisting him and saying, No, we we do need to do this, um, and we need to do it for our own purposes.
00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:39.919
Now, of course, the Gentile people would think, why are you uh we don't believe that at all.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:40.960
We never believed it.
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:47.039
We never believed in the diet and the thing, you know, the the that Jewish people had.
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:51.919
We always thought it was okay to eat pork or shellfish or other things like that.
00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:59.360
So, why are you making us and restricting our diet, keeping us from eating the things that we enjoy so much?
00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:06.080
So um, you can see how people would get very um upset with each other.
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:11.759
And you could see how the different churches, now remember, these churches were not like big buildings.
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:23.840
Some, yes, they did use synagogues when they had them, but most of the time they were um houses, there were people's houses, and some of these houses were you know quite large, so they were like villas, they call them.
00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:27.519
And um, and these people would gather in them.
00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:34.399
So some houses would be, you know, with more Jewish people, and some other houses would be more of the Gentile people.
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:43.679
And Paul was just trying to bring them together and just saying, hey, look, you're all, you know, you're all brethren, you're all brothers and sisters with each other.
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:45.919
So start acting like it.
00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:57.519
Now, um, he could insist and he could say, you know, you people who eat vegetables, you need to give up on your um, give up on your old-fashioned ways.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:01.039
You're being silly, you're being stupid, you know, that kind of thing.
00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.840
Maybe even Paul thought that.
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:32.559
Um, maybe he was biased against them, but um, but he here through chapter after chapter in Romans is talking about how the different faith, the different way that people come to faith, whether they come through Jewish families and and practices, or they come through Gentile uh families and practices, how they really need to get along with each other.
00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.720
That one is not better than the other.
00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:39.200
So this is the most important thing in all of Romans.
00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:46.639
And um, there are there's chapter of after chapter of difficult things that Paul is saying.
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:55.840
He really says things kind of harshly in a lot of ways, especially in those first five chapters of Romans.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:14.720
He says some of the things that people kind of use pretty badly about, you know, how people are terrible and they just don't get a, you know, they're they're they've been terrible since the beginning of time, and nobody trusts them, and uh, and they they just that God's given them over to their sins and things like that.
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:37.279
And you shouldn't judge you, you you Jewish people, you shouldn't judge these gentiles, and you gentiles, a little bit later, um, in chapter 9 and 10, you gentiles should not um uh you know condemn or you know be negative about your Jewish friends and your and family and brothers and sisters.
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:46.799
But by the time Paul gets to chapter 12 and 13, he becomes much more gentle.
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:52.000
And I say that in another episode as well, is how gentle Paul becomes.
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:56.960
He starts understanding, you know, he starts saying, No, we we are together.
00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.120
Don't be influenced by bad things.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:06.159
Don't, you know, especially in chapter 12, where people get really, they get they use misuse it a lot.
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:19.600
They don't realize that no, um the influences are not really the outside world, no, that it's the differences in doctrine or the differences in belief and how they're getting in the way.
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:26.639
And that you you should you have much more in common than you have differently, right?
00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:38.399
That you have a belief in God and that you have a uh, you know, that you um have that you love Jesus and you you you want to um you know be together.
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:40.480
That's what you should focus on.
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:54.799
And people who are evil against you, and there are evil people out there, sometimes they're out in the world, sometimes they're they could even be in church, you know, just deal, don't fight back against them.
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.639
It says in the uh end of uh um chapter 12.
00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:07.759
It just says, you know, whenever you see evil, just be good, be good back, don't repay evil for evil.
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.879
Um he goes, let God be the judge.
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:20.480
You know, by you being good, you're like putting coals on top, uh hot coals on top of their heads, it says, which is a pretty tough thing, right?
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:38.960
And even says, Don't be bothered in chapter 13, don't be bothered by the government, you know, uh just be a community, get along, because there's so much more that makes you um uh a faithful people together than then divides you.
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:57.840
So that's why I think when you get to chapter 14, you have this uh really wonderful thing of saying um don't judge each other, even if you have these big differences in where you've come from and how you talk together.
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.679
So let's let's go a little further into that.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.759
It says right here uh so stop judging each other.
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.319
Instead, do what you should decide.
00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.640
Never put a stumbling block or an obstacle in the way of your brother or sister.
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.119
That's verse uh 13.
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:21.920
I know and I'm convinced that in Lord Jesus, nothing is wrong to eat in itself.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.960
But if someone thinks it's wrong to eat that, it becomes wrong for that person.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:32.559
If your brother or sister is upset by your food, then you're not walking in love.
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:49.359
Don't let your food to destroy someone, destroys a very strong word, but you know, uh uh to make life really difficult for them, which it did, um, for whom Christ also died.
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:56.720
Uh and don't let some something you consider to be good be criticized as wrong.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:06.720
God's kingdom isn't about eating food or drinking or about, but it's about righteousness, peace, joy in the Holy Spirit.
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:13.599
Whoever serves Christ in this way pleases God and gets human approval.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:26.799
Wow, it just says, you know, it's more about um being good, being righteous, being peaceful, being joyful than about the things that you do.
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:45.599
So one of the scholars that I and I I spoke about her before, her name is Beverly Gaventa, that I've spoken to, that I love her works so much, because she talks about uh this chapter, chapter 14, about being right, but in the worst possible way.
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:52.000
The danger, as as this Carl Barth said, the danger of being right.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:19:03.759
So when I talked about apologetics or about people being jerks for Jesus, what they're doing is they're saying that being right is more important than the other person.
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.680
That being having a right theology is more important than loving each other.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:18.079
Now, I think we can agree, and we have seen this, I think we can agree that's wrong, but why do we still do it?
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:33.119
You still see people they fight like crazy about being right by Jesus and doing the right thing or you know, believing in a certain way, and in the same way they condemn people like crazy.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:20:13.119
So this is why chapter 14, I think, is maybe one of the most, if not one of the, maybe the most important of uh chapters in Paul's letters, and maybe the New Testament, because what it does is it causes us to understand that we can approach and we can be God's children even we're even when we're different, that we are all image bearers of God, um, meaning that you know God made us in a certain way, and that we that we have to stop judging each other and putting blocks in front of each other.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:19.279
So then let's talk a little bit about uh what that means.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:23.359
When it when are you going to fight or what are you gonna fight over?
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.960
What are you gonna take a stand on?
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.160
Things like that.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:34.480
That's really important because especially when you're young, as a young person, you tend to see things a little bit more black and white.
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:48.319
One of the best things about getting older is that you learn to uh oh maybe see things from other points of view or realizing that there are certain things that are not worth fighting over.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.000
And I've spoken to you about that before in other episodes as well.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:21:07.359
Is that uh one of the best things you can do, I think, as a young person, is to stand back and say, I feel very strongly about this thing, but then stand back and say, is it worth the fight?
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:17.599
Or is it something that, you know, with a little more time, information, understanding better, that I'm going to be able to change my mind about in the future.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.559
Or at least have the humility of understanding that that's a possibility.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:30.319
That if you just do that, then you're gonna be way ahead of a lot of other people because that's what maturity is about.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:43.359
And I've spoken about that as well, is that uh maturity is is taking in all sides and choosing what it's important to take a stand for.
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:45.519
So where is that stand?
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:50.240
Now, for a lot of people, it's you know, whether you're a Christian or not.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:55.119
And so we can talk about that, or a certain kind of Christian or not.
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:57.519
Um, we can talk about that a little bit.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.799
So, what does it mean to accept a Other people.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:16.799
Clearly, in this uh in this chapter, it's very much about acceptance because it even says that God accepts people who eat vegetables only and also accepts people who um who eat meat and other things.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:21.359
That it's become acceptable because it's acceptable to the people.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:31.759
In other words, God's kind of going along, is what Paul Paul's saying, that God's not nearly as choosy and difficult as people make uh are to each other.
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:34.640
There's an image that's interesting, right?
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.599
Because a lot of people will say, well, no, God is very strict.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:43.359
Well, um in Paul's writings, uh, God doesn't seem all that strict.
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:55.519
God is is much more uh open to having uh differences and diversity in people than um a lot of times than the people themselves allow.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.559
So that's why he says, stop judging each other.
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.799
He says it's all the way back in chapter two, too.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:07.359
He says, You shouldn't judge the other, because you know, you're all acceptable to God.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:17.839
Well, so I asked um this scholar that I really love, and I asked her, I go, um, I just love this chapter because it's they tolerate each other.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:19.039
Paul's asking for that.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:20.319
And she kind of corrected me.
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.200
She said, No, it's not just tolerance.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:24.720
I go, well, maybe acceptance.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.160
No, it's not just acceptance, it's welcome.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:41.359
It's to welcome each other into the community, to be part of the community together, that they genuinely are brothers and sisters, even if they uh their religion is quite different.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.119
So let's talk about where those differences are.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:53.839
Now, some of the easier ways that we can talk about as Christians is whether you're Protestant or you're Catholic, for example.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:58.799
You may have Catholic friends, you may be Catholic and have Protestant friends.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:04.240
You know, and the churches have been very uh divided over history.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:14.880
Today, most uh Protestants accept Catholics, and most Catholics accept Protestants as fellow Christians, but that wasn't always the case.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:20.400
And there are certainly hard-line people today still feel that way very strongly.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:28.799
Well, I think what they're doing is they're this is definitely, you know, are you one group or the other, just like Paul is saying?
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.279
And it's kind of ridiculous, really.
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:56.160
Uh, you know, we all hold in common, you know, the very basic things about, you know, God's love for people, for humanity, God's uh incarnation, which means, you know, uh uh the birth of Jesus, uh the death, the life and death and resurrection of Jesus, um, all you know, Christians hold that in common.
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:05.039
And certainly Catholics do, and certainly Protestants do, or Eastern Orthodox, these big divisions within the church.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:13.519
Some people, you know, believe that, well, you should only be baptized by being dunked underwater, and others say you can just put a little water on the head.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:18.640
You know, some people say that you must take uh communion every Sunday.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:23.039
Some people take, there's all these practices that are different.
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:35.759
Um, and we may have you know strong feelings about those, but and we may even think that the other people are stupid or they're silly or they're weak, like Paul even says, right?
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.480
But at least we go, no, they're my they're my brothers and sisters.
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:46.079
I'm I'm they they uh are part of my community.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:52.319
So then you have to ask the next question is that what does that community mean?
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:57.359
Uh, and to what to what degree do you extend this?
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:40.799
Um, there is a this idea in religion, um, and if you've ever spent time uh going out and getting to know people in other religions than your own, you begin to see things that are very common, whether they're Jewish, they're whether they're Muslim, whether they're uh Hindu, uh, whether they're Buddhist, whether all kinds of different religions, whether Catholic, Orthodox, um, even you know, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, other things that people really have a hard time believing are, you know, real Christians, uh, you have to kind of go, well, okay, what do I do about them?
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:43.440
Do I accept them?
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.160
Do I just tolerate them?
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.319
Do I fight them?
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:50.559
Or do I welcome them?
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:55.119
And um there are a couple things about this.
00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:06.240
One is that um in history, uh about 50, 60 years ago, there was a very strong movement toward what's called ecumenism.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:15.200
And this is means uh learning to live with and accept people of other religions and that having a common purpose.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.559
So um even today you'll see some of that.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.759
It was it was a stronger feeling, I'd say, uh 50 or 60 years ago.
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:39.119
But in the last uh couple of um decades, you've had a uh evangelical Christians pushing much, much harder against that and um and and and kind of creating some division there.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:49.519
But this is the idea of having a common purpose, and you see this in churches a lot uh where they'll reach out to um to other faiths, you know.
00:27:49.759 --> 00:28:15.440
So you'll have the the synagogue with the Jewish people working together on a common on a project, you know, working at the food bank or whatever with with their Protestant neighbors or their Catholic neighbors, or you'll have people who do common things uh in supporting each other uh during the Muslim, you know, with Muslim communities in the mosques and so forth.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:27.680
So uh, or uh or Hindu uh people who, you know, and many of these groups, like Hindus and and Muslims, are growing communities in the United in the United States.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.960
So we have to kind of figure out how do we work with them.
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:55.839
Uh when uh 9-11 happened, this is you know, when uh the uh World Trade Centers fell down and everything, and we and the United States was attacked by Muslim extremists in 2001, there was a period there of division, but there was also many expressions, beautiful expressions, of people standing up for each other.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:09.920
Uh there were Christian communities that stood and you know held hands with their uh Muslim neighbors in um around mosques to protect them, uh, who said, no, we we have to come together.
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.240
We cannot divide this way.
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.720
There's still there's still both of those feelings.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:21.920
You have those feelings of being a common community and division within the community, even still.
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.480
Some people are very afraid of this.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:29.039
And they say they they you know, we shouldn't uh have any agreement.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.640
We need to push back really hard.
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:32.960
They're not part of our brethren, right?
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:41.759
Well, so this again is uh something that we have to uh think hard about.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:30:01.759
From the point of view of uh you know theology and what we believe and why we believe it, the things that we have in common with other Christians usually are we can have common belief that yes, we believe in in uh a common belief about Jesus.
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:12.720
Even we can extend that a little, you know, for open-minded people, extend that to to Judaism because there's so much uh common history there.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:41.359
And as long as we're uh um uh you know uh in the we can even look in Romans, like Romans 9 through 11, where Paul talks about Jews uh a lot, and we can uh reach some common understanding that yes, we believe in the same God, we believe different things about Jesus, we believe things different things about things like salvation and so forth, but at least we have a common there uh theme.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:31:11.440
For those of you who know Muslim people and know them well, and know that there is that possibility there, but there's a lot more division in America, especially between Christians and Muslims because of history, because of worries about um, you know, the past, uh, worries about uh are we really uh do we really believe in the same God or not?
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:29.200
It it's really not much different than many Christians feel about um Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and other um uh groups that profess Christ, but have a very, very different um theology or ideas about that.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:35.200
And then we got to say to ourselves, okay, well, can we be in community with these people?
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:36.799
I think we can.
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:49.440
That really the judgment is not so much about um about exactly what we believe, but it's really more about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:56.640
Um, that we can be common brethren in the in these things.
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:19.200
That um it says uh so we can take we can take this thing about Christian communities and whether they eat, um what they eat and how they eat and how they separate by their beliefs about those things, and then we can say, well, what is it that makes us a common people in general?
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:36.720
And I'm not going to um say that that's something that you have to do, you have you don't have to believe um that uh you are the same religion or pray to the same God as these other groups, but at least you have to consider it.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:43.759
At least you have to be humble enough to understand that you know we all approach God in different ways.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:33:00.400
And that instead of judging so much by our theologies and exactly how we believe and how we pray and how we eat and how we worship and things like that, it really has to be more about how do we treat each other, how do we um do we respect each other?
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:18.079
Because there are a whole lot of Christians that are mean and are trying to break down um community, even though I may believe about God and Jesus the same way they do, you know, by the book, right?
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:24.000
Uh but they I believe are being harmful to humanity.
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:25.759
They're being harmful to people.
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:52.400
And I have um many Jewish friends, uh Muslim friends, uh friends of different faiths, Hindu friends that um I have common purpose with and I feel very, I feel close to that really um are doing the right thing for humanity, even though we don't have a common understanding about um about who Jesus is and who about who God is.
00:33:52.640 --> 00:34:09.920
So you've gotta you've gotta consider that and take that into account because that um can you take the these smaller differences with the same theology and extend those to bigger differences in theology, but still a common purpose.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:25.760
Um if you can live with that sort of um dynamic, then I think that you can uh have be a faithful Christian and live in peace and joy and friendship with people of other faiths.
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.039
I think that's important.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.199
I think we've lost a lot of that.
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:35.199
I think that we need to find better ways to accept each other in that way, too.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:35:05.760
Uh, and so if you stand back and look at Romans, of course he's talking about Christians following, uh, you know, following God, accepting uh Jewish converts or Jewish converts, I it's not really a good thing, but Jewish people who look up to Jesus, you could say, and um, and Gentiles who've come to Jesus in Paul's time and how they get together, and he calls them weak and he calls them strong.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:20.320
So he might be saying some things that are kind of offensive, you know, especially to the Jewish uh people, uh, being offending to them, but at least what he's saying is that you can get along and you can be in community together.
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:22.639
How does that extend?
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.719
And how does that extend to us?
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:39.760
How do I look on in the face of my my Hindu, Muslim, atheist, Jewish neighbor and love them?
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:41.360
How do I do that?
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:47.679
And how do I respect them and treat them and honor them?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.320
Um I think that's really important.
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:59.760
How do I not offend them by eating something that or doing a practice that's offensive to their basic beliefs?
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.840
They're, you know, that it's not just something that we disagree about, but I'm being a jerk to them.
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:08.639
And that's really important.
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:17.920
We should not be jerks to each other, even you know, uh, or when people are being jerks to us, we don't repay them by being jerks back.
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.880
We don't repay evil for evil.
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.840
That's what Romans is about.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:54.559
So if you can look at Romans that way, it really helps because this book, especially Romans chapter three, chapter five, some of the other ones, where people have used it so much to develop Christian theologies and things like that, um, they've look used Romans, you know, to be their rule book to make things uh more rigid and stiff and in belief.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:59.360
And but what Paul is saying is it doesn't matter so much.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:05.039
You can be right, but uh there's a danger in being right.
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:12.320
You can be right in the worst possible way, and chapter 14 really confronts you with that.
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:19.440
These people thought they were right, even Paul thought he was right about what people should eat and not eat.
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.719
But then he goes, you know what?
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:38.719
We still need to love each other, we need to not just put up with each other, not just tolerate each other, not just accept each other, but to welcome each other as brothers and sisters, brothers and sisters in faith, brothers and sisters as humans.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:42.880
So I think that's the basic message there.
00:37:43.039 --> 00:38:27.199
I think if you look at it fresh uh fresh, and then you look at other parts of the Bible that seem like they're really dividing people, stand back and understand who they're talking to, uh what the story is about, you'll find that the Bible is a long progression of accepting more and more and more people, of not getting more and more narrow, but opening up and accepting more people and having more people come to faith in ways that of different kinds and different ethnicities and different groups of people and different ideas, even different theologies.
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:31.440
So, with that, I'll just say uh take a look at it, uh, enjoy it.
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:52.159
I hope that you can uh have that feeling that I had the first time I read Romans, and then as I grew older, I came to realize that that first impression I had of Romans when I thought, wow, this book is just like opening the doors and and just making it so I can love a lot more people.
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:57.440
Uh I felt that way when I read it when I was 15 or 16.
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:02.079
I couldn't understand why people didn't feel that way about it myself.
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:06.639
And then later in life, as I really studied it, I go, you know what?
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.880
The way I read it when I was 15 or 16 was was the right way to read it.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:22.079
And that it really is opening the door and finding ways to love and accept and uh be with more people in community.
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.800
So with that, I hope that this is helpful.
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:26.480
Love to hear back from you.
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:29.840
Um and um love to see comments.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.519
I always uh respond to them.
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:33.519
Sometimes it can be pretty mean.
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:43.360
Um, but you know, uh hey, I'm just I just I just put it in, you know, they're trying to be right, but maybe in the the the worst way that put they can.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.440
And uh with that I say God bless you and take care.
00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:20.559
Welcome to the Real Bible Rob teamcast.
00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.879
Do you know if your beliefs are the right ones?
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.199
I think people need to be more accepting of each other's faith.
00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:34.560
You know, loving people who are different and believe differently than you do.
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.119
So where do you kind of like draw the line?
00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:46.399
Well, I think that uh Romans 14 is one of the best chapters in all of the Bible in the New Testament.
00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:52.240
And it's because it really kind of helps us through this thought process.
00:00:52.479 --> 00:01:03.119
I just did an episode last week where I talked about being jerks for Jesus and being, you know, about aggressive um evangelism and aggressive apologetics.
00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:16.959
And um I did that with some ideas that well, maybe that might offend some people because you know there are a lot of people out there that are very convinced that they are right and they have the right faith.
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:26.640
And um uh, you know, I didn't I don't do it to offend people, but I just do want people to think differently and not be so judgmental toward other people.
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:29.599
This is why I like Romans 14 so much.
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:50.480
So I'll explain that here and why it's such a great chapter, why um it how it fits in with what Paul was talking about through the whole book of Romans, the probably one of the hardest books to kind of understand in the New Testament, maybe except for Revelation, but um super important.
00:01:50.879 --> 00:02:00.239
I remember the first time I read Romans, I was 16 years old, I think 15 or 16, and um I was blown away by it.
00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.879
Um, I found it very interesting.
00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:17.520
Um, and now many, many years later, and I've read it many times uh in different ways, and I'm still blown away by Romans and how important it is, probably for the uh reasons that are a little different than what some other people think.
00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:35.039
Um there's a quote from a very famous and wise Christian pastor and uh theologian uh from about a hundred years ago named Carl Bart, uh, very important to us uh in my church, in the Presbyterian church, but on many other churches too.
00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:42.319
And he said, Romans 14 is for people who have read the whole letter and understand it.
00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:50.960
And that's really kind of interesting because most people who read uh Romans 14 kind of think it's an afterthought.
00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:58.560
Maybe all the important stuff has already been said by Paul, but no, this is the chapter uh and it starts right off.
00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:05.680
It says, Welcome the person who is weak in faith, but not in order to argue about differences of opinion.
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.719
Whoa, that isn't that an important thing for us to know.
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:23.599
Because, you know, a lot of people think they're right, and uh you probably uh even run into some people when they talk about their faith, they are so convinced that they're right, and they're gonna argue and they're gonna be mean about it.
00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:25.360
A lot of times it happens online.
00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:36.159
If you spend any time on uh, you know, YouTube or other uh things where people talk about theology, you can see how argumentative people really get about it.
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.719
And uh, that was my main thing that I was talking about with apologetics.
00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:44.560
It's argument instead of faithfulness.
00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:54.319
And um, it's really important that we uh understand exactly why this is now you might not like what other people believe.
00:03:54.639 --> 00:04:03.280
The chances are there are somebody you think that their beliefs are backwards, you might think that they're they're just wrong, you might think that they're silly or stupid.
00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:07.759
Um, it's just natural, but you still love them, right?
00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:09.840
And you want to try to understand them.
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.280
So, well, what does how does chapter 14 help?
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:15.039
And I'll I'll go through that.
00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:19.199
And how do you make it so that you don't you stop judging other people?
00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:31.040
Then after that, it's really more about just than just accepting other people, it's about welcoming other people, it's about being changed by them and and being in community with them.
00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:33.759
So then we have to kind of go to that next step.
00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.759
How far should we take it?
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:41.839
When does a belief uh fit you know with what you want and what you need?
00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:43.759
When is it a valid belief?
00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:48.160
Meaning, is it a belief that helps or harms other people?
00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:53.360
Um, what about other what about non-Christians, other faiths and everything like that?
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.279
Are they valid, not valid?
00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.120
And um, what does it mean to be in community with these people?
00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:06.800
And then most of all, what does it mean to be right, but then be completely wrong in how you treat other people?
00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:09.360
And I'll talk about that too.
00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:12.240
So let's get started with a couple things here.
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:27.360
Uh, in uh Romans 14, Paul is talking about um about two different groups of people that were kind of fighting each other, not getting along, about the Jewish converts and the Gentile converts, the Greek converts.
00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:36.800
And he says, uh, he goes, you know, you know, welcome the person who is weak in faith, but not in order to argue about differences of opinion.
00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:37.759
That's verse one.
00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:44.319
Number two is one person believes in eating everything while the weak person eats only vegetables.
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:51.439
There's a couple things in there that you need to know about what Paul's thinking and uh everything else.
00:05:51.600 --> 00:06:01.519
And then he says, those who eat must not look down on the ones who don't, and the ones who don't eat must not judge the ones that do, because God has accepted them.
00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:02.959
Wow.
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:09.120
You know, so these are people that may have very different beliefs about what they're eating.
00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:15.120
And what's important about this is not just what they're eating, it's about their identity, who they are.
00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:17.600
And I'll kind of explain that too.
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:22.079
Um, and then, you know, who are you to judge someone else's servants?
00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:29.920
Who are you to, you know, don't be a you know, but down in verse 13, it says, stop judging one one another.
00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:40.399
Instead, do what you should decide, never to put a stumbling block or an obstacle in the way of a brother or a sister.
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:48.240
In other words, you know, if your brother or your sister is upset with your food, and then you're no longer walking in love.
00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.160
In other words, you're insisting.
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.240
So let's back up a little bit.
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.360
Why all of this talk of food and why is it important?
00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:01.920
And then broaden it to the whole meaning of Paul's letter uh to the Romans.
00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:05.920
So um there are two groups I mentioned.
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:11.439
There's the the Jewish group, and there is the Gentile group.
00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:25.839
And Paul, remember, uh, was going out to the West, to Greece and to Rome and to all these places in order to um preach the gospel to the Gentiles.
00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.800
And these are the you know, non-Jewish people, right?
00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:32.240
To expand the church, accept new people.
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:48.959
And um he these communities remember back then there wasn't a clear distinction between um between uh Jewish people and uh and Christian people, Christian Jewish people.
00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:50.959
They met in synagogues.
00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:59.839
Um, Christianity for hundreds of years, uh, from Paul on was just considered another kind of Judaism for most people.
00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:09.920
That um there wasn't this huge difference, like we feel like or we keep hearing about, you know, there's Christians and then there's Jewish people, and that like they're different religions.
00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:11.439
They didn't think that way then.
00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:12.720
And Paul certainly didn't.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:26.879
If you read the rest of Romans, you can see that uh that there are beliefs that you know do separate the communities, but he didn't think of them as like different people, like we tend to do.
00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:38.399
The difference between people was more about whether they were Jewish and they uh lived according to Jewish practices, or whether they were Gentiles and they never were Jewish.
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:40.399
And he talks about that.
00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:43.919
So what what's what's all this talk about food?
00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:56.799
Well, in Rome, uh at the time, probably the the uh most frequently um eaten um uh meat was pork.
00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:58.960
Uh they ate a lot of pork in Rome.
00:08:59.120 --> 00:08:59.919
They still do today.
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:06.799
You go to uh you go to Italy and and large parts of Europe um and you find that people eat a lot of pork.
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:13.840
Uh it's just part kind of like the it's the you know, it's the meat of their cuisine, right?
00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:20.720
Um, they also ate things like shellfish and you know clams and and shrimp and things like that.
00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:32.559
Uh, again, those are the foods that you would um that you would eat and uh are today in these places, uh things like octopus, for example.
00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:45.919
Now you may not like octopus, but if you go to you know parts of uh Italy or Greece or southern France today, they eat a lot of things like that from the sea that Jewish people would definitely not eat.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:57.360
So in these communities, in these places, um instead of eating those meats that were regularly available, they would eat only vegetables.
00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:09.279
And Paul would, you know, and you know, maybe not only vegetables, but certainly they would only eat clean meats or clean things that, you know, clean according to Jewish laws.
00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:24.159
And you can tell that Paul already has a bias, already kind of has a feeling like those people who are keeping those um practices are um are weak.
00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.960
And he uses that and he says that numerous places, weak in faith.
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:52.399
He may not, he doesn't really mean it as a put down as we read it, but he definitely thinks that theologically, or you know, that it the right thing to do is to not think that you can't eat certain foods, that that being as a Christian, um, you can give up on those old rules uh uh from Judaism.
00:10:52.480 --> 00:11:04.240
And you can eat things like pork, you can eat things like shellfish and things like that, um, because the everything's clean now, and we see that a lot in um in there.
00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:14.080
But a lot of people in these communities just couldn't do it, and they felt like they needed to stay pure and they needed to stay clean.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.600
And that these are very strongly held ideas.
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:32.799
So even though Paul may think you don't have to do that anymore, um, he was dealing with people that were resisting him and saying, No, we we do need to do this, um, and we need to do it for our own purposes.
00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:39.919
Now, of course, the Gentile people would think, why are you uh we don't believe that at all.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:40.960
We never believed it.
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:47.039
We never believed in the diet and the thing, you know, the the that Jewish people had.
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:51.919
We always thought it was okay to eat pork or shellfish or other things like that.
00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:59.360
So, why are you making us and restricting our diet, keeping us from eating the things that we enjoy so much?
00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:06.080
So um, you can see how people would get very um upset with each other.
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:11.759
And you could see how the different churches, now remember, these churches were not like big buildings.
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:23.840
Some, yes, they did use synagogues when they had them, but most of the time they were um houses, there were people's houses, and some of these houses were you know quite large, so they were like villas, they call them.
00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:27.519
And um, and these people would gather in them.
00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:34.399
So some houses would be, you know, with more Jewish people, and some other houses would be more of the Gentile people.
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:43.679
And Paul was just trying to bring them together and just saying, hey, look, you're all, you know, you're all brethren, you're all brothers and sisters with each other.
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:45.919
So start acting like it.
00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:57.519
Now, um, he could insist and he could say, you know, you people who eat vegetables, you need to give up on your um, give up on your old-fashioned ways.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:01.039
You're being silly, you're being stupid, you know, that kind of thing.
00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.840
Maybe even Paul thought that.
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:32.559
Um, maybe he was biased against them, but um, but he here through chapter after chapter in Romans is talking about how the different faith, the different way that people come to faith, whether they come through Jewish families and and practices, or they come through Gentile uh families and practices, how they really need to get along with each other.
00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.720
That one is not better than the other.
00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:39.200
So this is the most important thing in all of Romans.
00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:46.639
And um, there are there's chapter of after chapter of difficult things that Paul is saying.
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:55.840
He really says things kind of harshly in a lot of ways, especially in those first five chapters of Romans.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:14.720
He says some of the things that people kind of use pretty badly about, you know, how people are terrible and they just don't get a, you know, they're they're they've been terrible since the beginning of time, and nobody trusts them, and uh, and they they just that God's given them over to their sins and things like that.
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:37.279
And you shouldn't judge you, you you Jewish people, you shouldn't judge these gentiles, and you gentiles, a little bit later, um, in chapter 9 and 10, you gentiles should not um uh you know condemn or you know be negative about your Jewish friends and your and family and brothers and sisters.
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:46.799
But by the time Paul gets to chapter 12 and 13, he becomes much more gentle.
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:52.000
And I say that in another episode as well, is how gentle Paul becomes.
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:56.960
He starts understanding, you know, he starts saying, No, we we are together.
00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.120
Don't be influenced by bad things.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:06.159
Don't, you know, especially in chapter 12, where people get really, they get they use misuse it a lot.
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:19.600
They don't realize that no, um the influences are not really the outside world, no, that it's the differences in doctrine or the differences in belief and how they're getting in the way.
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:26.639
And that you you should you have much more in common than you have differently, right?
00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:38.399
That you have a belief in God and that you have a uh, you know, that you um have that you love Jesus and you you you want to um you know be together.
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:40.480
That's what you should focus on.
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:54.799
And people who are evil against you, and there are evil people out there, sometimes they're out in the world, sometimes they're they could even be in church, you know, just deal, don't fight back against them.
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.639
It says in the uh end of uh um chapter 12.
00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:07.759
It just says, you know, whenever you see evil, just be good, be good back, don't repay evil for evil.
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.879
Um he goes, let God be the judge.
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:20.480
You know, by you being good, you're like putting coals on top, uh hot coals on top of their heads, it says, which is a pretty tough thing, right?
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:38.960
And even says, Don't be bothered in chapter 13, don't be bothered by the government, you know, uh just be a community, get along, because there's so much more that makes you um uh a faithful people together than then divides you.
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:57.840
So that's why I think when you get to chapter 14, you have this uh really wonderful thing of saying um don't judge each other, even if you have these big differences in where you've come from and how you talk together.
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.679
So let's let's go a little further into that.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.759
It says right here uh so stop judging each other.
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.319
Instead, do what you should decide.
00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.640
Never put a stumbling block or an obstacle in the way of your brother or sister.
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.119
That's verse uh 13.
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:21.920
I know and I'm convinced that in Lord Jesus, nothing is wrong to eat in itself.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.960
But if someone thinks it's wrong to eat that, it becomes wrong for that person.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:32.559
If your brother or sister is upset by your food, then you're not walking in love.
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:49.359
Don't let your food to destroy someone, destroys a very strong word, but you know, uh uh to make life really difficult for them, which it did, um, for whom Christ also died.
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:56.720
Uh and don't let some something you consider to be good be criticized as wrong.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:06.720
God's kingdom isn't about eating food or drinking or about, but it's about righteousness, peace, joy in the Holy Spirit.
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:13.599
Whoever serves Christ in this way pleases God and gets human approval.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:26.799
Wow, it just says, you know, it's more about um being good, being righteous, being peaceful, being joyful than about the things that you do.
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:45.599
So one of the scholars that I and I I spoke about her before, her name is Beverly Gaventa, that I've spoken to, that I love her works so much, because she talks about uh this chapter, chapter 14, about being right, but in the worst possible way.
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:52.000
The danger, as as this Carl Barth said, the danger of being right.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:19:03.759
So when I talked about apologetics or about people being jerks for Jesus, what they're doing is they're saying that being right is more important than the other person.
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.680
That being having a right theology is more important than loving each other.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:18.079
Now, I think we can agree, and we have seen this, I think we can agree that's wrong, but why do we still do it?
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:33.119
You still see people they fight like crazy about being right by Jesus and doing the right thing or you know, believing in a certain way, and in the same way they condemn people like crazy.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:20:13.119
So this is why chapter 14, I think, is maybe one of the most, if not one of the, maybe the most important of uh chapters in Paul's letters, and maybe the New Testament, because what it does is it causes us to understand that we can approach and we can be God's children even we're even when we're different, that we are all image bearers of God, um, meaning that you know God made us in a certain way, and that we that we have to stop judging each other and putting blocks in front of each other.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:19.279
So then let's talk a little bit about uh what that means.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:23.359
When it when are you going to fight or what are you gonna fight over?
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.960
What are you gonna take a stand on?
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.160
Things like that.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:34.480
That's really important because especially when you're young, as a young person, you tend to see things a little bit more black and white.
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:48.319
One of the best things about getting older is that you learn to uh oh maybe see things from other points of view or realizing that there are certain things that are not worth fighting over.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.000
And I've spoken to you about that before in other episodes as well.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:21:07.359
Is that uh one of the best things you can do, I think, as a young person, is to stand back and say, I feel very strongly about this thing, but then stand back and say, is it worth the fight?
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:17.599
Or is it something that, you know, with a little more time, information, understanding better, that I'm going to be able to change my mind about in the future.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.559
Or at least have the humility of understanding that that's a possibility.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:30.319
That if you just do that, then you're gonna be way ahead of a lot of other people because that's what maturity is about.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:43.359
And I've spoken about that as well, is that uh maturity is is taking in all sides and choosing what it's important to take a stand for.
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:45.519
So where is that stand?
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:50.240
Now, for a lot of people, it's you know, whether you're a Christian or not.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:55.119
And so we can talk about that, or a certain kind of Christian or not.
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:57.519
Um, we can talk about that a little bit.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.799
So, what does it mean to accept a Other people.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:16.799
Clearly, in this uh in this chapter, it's very much about acceptance because it even says that God accepts people who eat vegetables only and also accepts people who um who eat meat and other things.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:21.359
That it's become acceptable because it's acceptable to the people.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:31.759
In other words, God's kind of going along, is what Paul Paul's saying, that God's not nearly as choosy and difficult as people make uh are to each other.
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:34.640
There's an image that's interesting, right?
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.599
Because a lot of people will say, well, no, God is very strict.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:43.359
Well, um in Paul's writings, uh, God doesn't seem all that strict.
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:55.519
God is is much more uh open to having uh differences and diversity in people than um a lot of times than the people themselves allow.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.559
So that's why he says, stop judging each other.
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.799
He says it's all the way back in chapter two, too.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:07.359
He says, You shouldn't judge the other, because you know, you're all acceptable to God.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:17.839
Well, so I asked um this scholar that I really love, and I asked her, I go, um, I just love this chapter because it's they tolerate each other.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:19.039
Paul's asking for that.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:20.319
And she kind of corrected me.
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.200
She said, No, it's not just tolerance.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:24.720
I go, well, maybe acceptance.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.160
No, it's not just acceptance, it's welcome.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:41.359
It's to welcome each other into the community, to be part of the community together, that they genuinely are brothers and sisters, even if they uh their religion is quite different.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.119
So let's talk about where those differences are.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:53.839
Now, some of the easier ways that we can talk about as Christians is whether you're Protestant or you're Catholic, for example.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:58.799
You may have Catholic friends, you may be Catholic and have Protestant friends.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:04.240
You know, and the churches have been very uh divided over history.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:14.880
Today, most uh Protestants accept Catholics, and most Catholics accept Protestants as fellow Christians, but that wasn't always the case.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:20.400
And there are certainly hard-line people today still feel that way very strongly.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:28.799
Well, I think what they're doing is they're this is definitely, you know, are you one group or the other, just like Paul is saying?
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.279
And it's kind of ridiculous, really.
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:56.160
Uh, you know, we all hold in common, you know, the very basic things about, you know, God's love for people, for humanity, God's uh incarnation, which means, you know, uh uh the birth of Jesus, uh the death, the life and death and resurrection of Jesus, um, all you know, Christians hold that in common.
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:05.039
And certainly Catholics do, and certainly Protestants do, or Eastern Orthodox, these big divisions within the church.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:13.519
Some people, you know, believe that, well, you should only be baptized by being dunked underwater, and others say you can just put a little water on the head.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:18.640
You know, some people say that you must take uh communion every Sunday.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:23.039
Some people take, there's all these practices that are different.
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:35.759
Um, and we may have you know strong feelings about those, but and we may even think that the other people are stupid or they're silly or they're weak, like Paul even says, right?
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.480
But at least we go, no, they're my they're my brothers and sisters.
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:46.079
I'm I'm they they uh are part of my community.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:52.319
So then you have to ask the next question is that what does that community mean?
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:57.359
Uh, and to what to what degree do you extend this?
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:40.799
Um, there is a this idea in religion, um, and if you've ever spent time uh going out and getting to know people in other religions than your own, you begin to see things that are very common, whether they're Jewish, they're whether they're Muslim, whether they're uh Hindu, uh, whether they're Buddhist, whether all kinds of different religions, whether Catholic, Orthodox, um, even you know, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, other things that people really have a hard time believing are, you know, real Christians, uh, you have to kind of go, well, okay, what do I do about them?
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:43.440
Do I accept them?
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.160
Do I just tolerate them?
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.319
Do I fight them?
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:50.559
Or do I welcome them?
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:55.119
And um there are a couple things about this.
00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:06.240
One is that um in history, uh about 50, 60 years ago, there was a very strong movement toward what's called ecumenism.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:15.200
And this is means uh learning to live with and accept people of other religions and that having a common purpose.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.559
So um even today you'll see some of that.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.759
It was it was a stronger feeling, I'd say, uh 50 or 60 years ago.
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:39.119
But in the last uh couple of um decades, you've had a uh evangelical Christians pushing much, much harder against that and um and and and kind of creating some division there.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:49.519
But this is the idea of having a common purpose, and you see this in churches a lot uh where they'll reach out to um to other faiths, you know.
00:27:49.759 --> 00:28:15.440
So you'll have the the synagogue with the Jewish people working together on a common on a project, you know, working at the food bank or whatever with with their Protestant neighbors or their Catholic neighbors, or you'll have people who do common things uh in supporting each other uh during the Muslim, you know, with Muslim communities in the mosques and so forth.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:27.680
So uh, or uh or Hindu uh people who, you know, and many of these groups, like Hindus and and Muslims, are growing communities in the United in the United States.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.960
So we have to kind of figure out how do we work with them.
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:55.839
Uh when uh 9-11 happened, this is you know, when uh the uh World Trade Centers fell down and everything, and we and the United States was attacked by Muslim extremists in 2001, there was a period there of division, but there was also many expressions, beautiful expressions, of people standing up for each other.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:09.920
Uh there were Christian communities that stood and you know held hands with their uh Muslim neighbors in um around mosques to protect them, uh, who said, no, we we have to come together.
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.240
We cannot divide this way.
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.720
There's still there's still both of those feelings.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:21.920
You have those feelings of being a common community and division within the community, even still.
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.480
Some people are very afraid of this.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:29.039
And they say they they you know, we shouldn't uh have any agreement.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.640
We need to push back really hard.
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:32.960
They're not part of our brethren, right?
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:41.759
Well, so this again is uh something that we have to uh think hard about.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:30:01.759
From the point of view of uh you know theology and what we believe and why we believe it, the things that we have in common with other Christians usually are we can have common belief that yes, we believe in in uh a common belief about Jesus.
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:12.720
Even we can extend that a little, you know, for open-minded people, extend that to to Judaism because there's so much uh common history there.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:41.359
And as long as we're uh um uh you know uh in the we can even look in Romans, like Romans 9 through 11, where Paul talks about Jews uh a lot, and we can uh reach some common understanding that yes, we believe in the same God, we believe different things about Jesus, we believe things different things about things like salvation and so forth, but at least we have a common there uh theme.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:31:11.440
For those of you who know Muslim people and know them well, and know that there is that possibility there, but there's a lot more division in America, especially between Christians and Muslims because of history, because of worries about um, you know, the past, uh, worries about uh are we really uh do we really believe in the same God or not?
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:29.200
It it's really not much different than many Christians feel about um Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and other um uh groups that profess Christ, but have a very, very different um theology or ideas about that.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:35.200
And then we got to say to ourselves, okay, well, can we be in community with these people?
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:36.799
I think we can.
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:49.440
That really the judgment is not so much about um about exactly what we believe, but it's really more about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:56.640
Um, that we can be common brethren in the in these things.
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:19.200
That um it says uh so we can take we can take this thing about Christian communities and whether they eat, um what they eat and how they eat and how they separate by their beliefs about those things, and then we can say, well, what is it that makes us a common people in general?
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:36.720
And I'm not going to um say that that's something that you have to do, you have you don't have to believe um that uh you are the same religion or pray to the same God as these other groups, but at least you have to consider it.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:43.759
At least you have to be humble enough to understand that you know we all approach God in different ways.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:33:00.400
And that instead of judging so much by our theologies and exactly how we believe and how we pray and how we eat and how we worship and things like that, it really has to be more about how do we treat each other, how do we um do we respect each other?
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:18.079
Because there are a whole lot of Christians that are mean and are trying to break down um community, even though I may believe about God and Jesus the same way they do, you know, by the book, right?
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:24.000
Uh but they I believe are being harmful to humanity.
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:25.759
They're being harmful to people.
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:52.400
And I have um many Jewish friends, uh Muslim friends, uh friends of different faiths, Hindu friends that um I have common purpose with and I feel very, I feel close to that really um are doing the right thing for humanity, even though we don't have a common understanding about um about who Jesus is and who about who God is.
00:33:52.640 --> 00:34:09.920
So you've gotta you've gotta consider that and take that into account because that um can you take the these smaller differences with the same theology and extend those to bigger differences in theology, but still a common purpose.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:25.760
Um if you can live with that sort of um dynamic, then I think that you can uh have be a faithful Christian and live in peace and joy and friendship with people of other faiths.
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.039
I think that's important.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.199
I think we've lost a lot of that.
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:35.199
I think that we need to find better ways to accept each other in that way, too.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:35:05.760
Uh, and so if you stand back and look at Romans, of course he's talking about Christians following, uh, you know, following God, accepting uh Jewish converts or Jewish converts, I it's not really a good thing, but Jewish people who look up to Jesus, you could say, and um, and Gentiles who've come to Jesus in Paul's time and how they get together, and he calls them weak and he calls them strong.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:20.320
So he might be saying some things that are kind of offensive, you know, especially to the Jewish uh people, uh, being offending to them, but at least what he's saying is that you can get along and you can be in community together.
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:22.639
How does that extend?
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.719
And how does that extend to us?
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:39.760
How do I look on in the face of my my Hindu, Muslim, atheist, Jewish neighbor and love them?
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:41.360
How do I do that?
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:47.679
And how do I respect them and treat them and honor them?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.320
Um I think that's really important.
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:59.760
How do I not offend them by eating something that or doing a practice that's offensive to their basic beliefs?
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.840
They're, you know, that it's not just something that we disagree about, but I'm being a jerk to them.
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:08.639
And that's really important.
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:17.920
We should not be jerks to each other, even you know, uh, or when people are being jerks to us, we don't repay them by being jerks back.
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.880
We don't repay evil for evil.
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.840
That's what Romans is about.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:54.559
So if you can look at Romans that way, it really helps because this book, especially Romans chapter three, chapter five, some of the other ones, where people have used it so much to develop Christian theologies and things like that, um, they've look used Romans, you know, to be their rule book to make things uh more rigid and stiff and in belief.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:59.360
And but what Paul is saying is it doesn't matter so much.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:05.039
You can be right, but uh there's a danger in being right.
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:12.320
You can be right in the worst possible way, and chapter 14 really confronts you with that.
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:19.440
These people thought they were right, even Paul thought he was right about what people should eat and not eat.
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.719
But then he goes, you know what?
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:38.719
We still need to love each other, we need to not just put up with each other, not just tolerate each other, not just accept each other, but to welcome each other as brothers and sisters, brothers and sisters in faith, brothers and sisters as humans.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:42.880
So I think that's the basic message there.
00:37:43.039 --> 00:38:27.199
I think if you look at it fresh uh fresh, and then you look at other parts of the Bible that seem like they're really dividing people, stand back and understand who they're talking to, uh what the story is about, you'll find that the Bible is a long progression of accepting more and more and more people, of not getting more and more narrow, but opening up and accepting more people and having more people come to faith in ways that of different kinds and different ethnicities and different groups of people and different ideas, even different theologies.
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:31.440
So, with that, I'll just say uh take a look at it, uh, enjoy it.
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:52.159
I hope that you can uh have that feeling that I had the first time I read Romans, and then as I grew older, I came to realize that that first impression I had of Romans when I thought, wow, this book is just like opening the doors and and just making it so I can love a lot more people.
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:57.440
Uh I felt that way when I read it when I was 15 or 16.
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:02.079
I couldn't understand why people didn't feel that way about it myself.
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:06.639
And then later in life, as I really studied it, I go, you know what?
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.880
The way I read it when I was 15 or 16 was was the right way to read it.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:22.079
And that it really is opening the door and finding ways to love and accept and uh be with more people in community.
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.800
So with that, I hope that this is helpful.
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:26.480
Love to hear back from you.
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:29.840
Um and um love to see comments.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.519
I always uh respond to them.
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:33.519
Sometimes it can be pretty mean.
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:43.360
Um, but you know, uh hey, I'm just I just I just put it in, you know, they're trying to be right, but maybe in the the the worst way that put they can.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.440
And uh with that I say God bless you and take care.
