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Welcome back to Practical Parenting, the podcast that helps empower parents in the trenches, find joy in the process, and thrive through it all.
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I'm Christina Wales here with my co-host, Dr.
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Terry Nguyen, Chair of Pediatrics at GBMC Healthcare.
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So this summer, something interesting happened on social media.
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Parents started getting nostalgic for summers like the ones we had as kids.
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The feelings of a 90s summer, kids outside until dark, boredom that nobody rushed to fix, bikes, creeks, neighborhood games, and of course, not a screen in sight.
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Families started intentionally unplugging, scaling back the schedules, and trying to give their kids something we have touted a lot on this podcast, unstructured time.
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But there is more to the 90s summer trend than just nostalgia.
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And we wanted to talk today about why this trend caught on, what are parents actually searching for in giving their kids a screen-free summer, and what kids can gain from getting one.
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So to help us with this discussion, we have Anya Kamenetz joining us.
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Anya is a longtime education correspondent for NPR and journalist for several other outlets.
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She's also the author of several books, including The Art of Screen Time and The Stolen Year, as well as the creator of the Substack newsletter, The Golden Hour, and host of Life Kit Parenting, a podcast in partnership with a Sesame Workshop.
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She is also, probably most importantly, a mom who just sent her kids to Screen Free Camp.
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So not only does she study this stuff, but she is living it in real time.
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So, Anya, welcome to Practical Parenting.
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We're so glad you're here.
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Thank you so much.
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I'm so happy to be joining you.
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We are so excited to have you and talk with you.
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Your breadth of knowledge will be enlightening to us and our audience.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Yeah.
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So as I mentioned, you wrote The Art of Screen Time back in 2018.
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So how has the conversation shifted since then?
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And do you think parents are more or less equipped to handle it now?
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So I feel like the level of conversation and sort of panic around screen time really hasn't let up in the almost decade since I published that book.
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If anything, it's gotten more intense in the age of AI and also many different kinds of smart devices, VR.
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We went through that trend.
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So for me, I feel like, you know, we are trying to develop our own sea legs under us and figure out, you know, the folk wisdom of how we how we succeed and how we navigate these things.
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And I think that there's, you know, the the concerns have not gotten less, but maybe we're talking about it more.
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And I think that's a good thing.
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Um, at the time, you interviewed hundreds of parents about this topic.
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Uh, what kept coming up when as you um spoke with parents?
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And were you surprised by any of it?
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Or um did it uh affirm something that you already knew?
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So I think you know what comes up a lot is guilt, shame, and confusion.
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Um, this is a major area of judgment where parents feel judged by their elders, they feel judged by other parents, they feel judged out in public.
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And that judgment can cut both ways.
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I mean, you can get side-eyed for um having a toddler on an iPad in a restaurant.
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You can also get side-eyed for letting that toddler roam the tables in the restaurant.
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So, you know, it's often seems like it's a no-win situation.
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And uh, you know, the the way to kind of cut through that is really to clarify what your values are as a family, what you're trying to prioritize, and also what does your individual kid need?
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You know, I think something that we've really learned and maybe a surprise for me was the way that screens really interact with neurodivergence and um the different patterns and needs that our kids have.
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So figuring out how some kids can really, they can, they can watch a couple of cartoons and shut it off and it's no problem.
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They go on with their day.
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Other kids are much more sensitive and it's going to be a big tantrum.
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Or that screen might be the ultimate soothing thing.
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You know, I had a notable example in my book of a child with cystic fibrosis and they had hours every day in their therapeutic vest, right?
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Where they're taking, they're getting their percussion for their lungs.
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And that hours, those were screen time hours.
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And their sibling is like, why does my sibling get so much screen time?
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And it's like, well, this is making something that would be so hard for us so, so much easier.
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So we really have to be so understanding of families' different situations and needs.
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I'm I was gonna say, I'm glad you said that because I feel like we talk about that a lot, just parenting the kid in front of you and recognizing their specific needs versus um just you know, quote unquote, like flat out rules about specific, you know, screen time, like it should only be an hour or it should only be for certain types of kids or whatever the case may be.
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So um yeah, and that really ties into what the American Academy of Pediatrics latest guidelines are for social media use, right?
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Or digital media use.
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Um, it really is about uh what's the content, what's the quality of the content, uh, what is it crowding out, um, you know, um, what other activities is it replacing?
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So um I think you you just hit the nail on the head and you saw it, you know, in your live interviews.
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Um, so I want to put a plug-in for the American Academy of Pediatrics Family Media Plan.
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It's the five C's of, you know, what do you want uh out of digital uh media for your kids?
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Um I'm so happy you brought that up.
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Dr.
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Jenny Redesky is a is a doctor that I've relied in for a really long time.
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Um and she has a book coming out also.
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And the the focus that she's always kept too is on your relationship with your child, right?
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So screen time starts with you have a baby, right?
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And you are might be breastfeeding and looking at your messages while you're breastfeeding, or you're watching television during late night feedings.
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And the way that the screens work in the home and the way that they work sometimes in between you and your kid, or they could be augmenting you and your kid.
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So, how are we creating connection with and without devices in our home?
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We really have to look as adults who to look at ourselves first.
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Yeah, because we model, right?
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And those five C's of the media use is child, what's the child's developmental level, what's their age, what's the content of what they're um, you know, um receiving from the media source?
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And are we using it to calm them?
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You know, everybody needs the babysitter in the restaurant, the babysitter, uh, I mean of the screen, right?
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In the restaurant, or when you have to use the restroom and you you and your kid will only like just stay away from being attached to you.
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Um what's it crowding out?
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What other activities?
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And you also mentioned communication, communication and relationship with your child.
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So um it covers all the points, and I'm delighted that um, you know, that's where our conversation is coming from.
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So it's the real life, the um, and the uh, you know, and I love that it's been put into a framework for parents to uh to help guide them as well.
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And you are so spot on about the shame and guilt.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, and it's interesting too, because I I often find that the there's a performative shame and guilt, right?
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So so we express to each other, oh, I'm bad at this, I'm not doing a good job.
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And it it's almost like you're letting yourself off the hook in that way.
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It's like, well, we can we always mess up, but we can always do better, you know, and just saying kind of like I've given up, it's like, well, your kid's not giving up.
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Like you have to, you still have to have a plan and you still have to kind of work on it, right?
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So for me, I I kind of want to like push past that conversation and be like, well, what's actually going on here?
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Are you are you upset with your screen time rules?
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What actual problems is it causing in the house?
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Um, and and what are you prepared to do about it?
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Exactly.
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It's what action?
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So, okay, we're aware that this is off.
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This is not the way we want it to be.
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But you know, as parents, it's the first part is reflecting back on what we're modeling, right?
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So if you're on the screen all the time and you're on the screen while you're playing with your kid, like can you put away the phone?
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Like, do you need the phone while you're playing a board game with them?
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Or you know, it's just like being are you being present?
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You can't ask to be present if you don't even know how to be present, right?
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And that's a big challenge.
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I mean, I was guilty as indicted, you know.
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I was on call before the age of um you have to be attached to the phone, basically.
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And I I would be on the phone a lot while I was playing with my kids on the weekend when I was on call.
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And I would say five minutes, it's never five minutes, you know, it goes from one call to the next to the next.
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And so I have to self-reflect and go, really?
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Um, so yeah, when I say there's no phones at the dinner table, and I have older children, they're in their 20s now.
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Um, they're college age students.
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We um, but we all have to do it.
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And then of course, my husband whips out his phone from his pocket.
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I'm like, uh honey, dad, you can't be having the phone at the table either.
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And it's not that it's bad, it's you know, if you want to look up something to contribute to the conversation, that's one thing.
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But if you're, you know, your attention is being so diverted, right?
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You're sort of in the conversation here, and you're sort of in the conversation with your friend on um on text, you're at you're actually not present for either conversation.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, the the way I like to flip that around when people start to want to, you know, make inroads and improve in that area is that, you know, we can cultivate mindfulness by sitting and meditating for just a few minutes a day.
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And by the same token, we can have focus time with our children.
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You know, you can set a timer and say, we've got 15 minutes.
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I'm at your disposal.
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Whatever you want to do is what we're gonna do right now, right?
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And give them that soak up time and that 100% focus.
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You're not gonna be able to be on all day, especially if it's a summer, you're working from home, obviously you're gonna attention's gonna be pulled in different directions.
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But if you can, to be formal about it, set aside that time and say, this is our time, I feel like it can make a big difference.
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What do you guys think?
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Oh, totally agree with that.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I yeah, I think that's the best way to do it is just even to start small.
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I mean, we talk about that with anything when you're, you know, trying to eat better, when you're trying to exercise, like, you know, just try those 10 minutes.
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Like it's it might not seem like a lot, but it's the habit forming.
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And then once you get that, it you're able to get better from there.
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And I mean, I'll take a parenting thing.
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Um, like when you have a new baby in the home, I always recommend to parents, and especially moms, because they're often the primary caretaker for the babies, because if they're breastfeeding, they're feeding the child and they're their parents still at home and you know, their partner or spouse is back at work.
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I say, please a lot, you know, set off 15, 20 minutes a day that you are spending with your other child, your older child, right?
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And that is time that you will only spend, you know, that it's focused on that child, your older child.
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And unless the, you know, and the other parent is tending to the baby, um, and unless the house is burning down, it's it's the b it's your child, you you know, your special time with your child.
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And that is so meaningful, right?
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We know that we've already done that, and it really does work.
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It kind of soothes the child, it it reaffirms that they're still a center of your attention and center of your love.
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Um, so you know, take it to a different scenario and we're doing it with screens.
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And gosh, it shouldn't be that hard, right?
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Because that's what we did with our parents when I mean, there were definitely no screens when, you know, I was growing up in the 70s.
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Um, you know, and I you had to talk to your parents at the dinner table.
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Um, we had one TV and it was a black and white.
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I'm not kidding.
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Uh, and it was in the dining room, it was in the family, it was in the living room, right?
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But now because we have more access and we have more means doesn't mean we have to take use it all the time.
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Go back to the basics.
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It's it's about the relationship building and the communication.
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I mean, one of the biggest things that we talk about in pediatrics is what should be sacred is dinner time.
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Yeah.
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We all lead really busy lives.
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We can't, you know, have family dinners every night.
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I'm I live in reality.
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I had children who were in sports.
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But, you know, can you set a priority for a few nights a week?
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Two, three, you know, and have family meetings and discussions that make it fun.
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Um, the family meeting is so important, you know.
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Um, everybody, you know, shares what was great this week, what wasn't so great, what would we like to work on uh individually and as a family, and you track it over time.
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And families who do that um have really better improved communication.
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Now it's not that they don't have conflict, right?
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But they have uh improved communication skills between children and parents and uh and just parents and parents, right?
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Everybody gets their uh space to express themselves and uh express their opinions, whether it's and it can be different.
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I mean, this is where I sort of take the crowding out concept from the American Academy Pediatrics and I flip it around and say, how are you structuring your day and your routine as a family so that there's positive things that do crowd out the screen time, right?
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So it could be family meal, could be outdoor time.
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I am an absolute uh just radical about outdoor time.
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My kids know this.
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One time we played a game.
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I don't know if I recommend this game, but it's like, what does mom always say?
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What does dad always say?
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And for me, it was absolutely it was go outside.
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My kids like I love controversial questions like that.
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Like, what do you think I could be better at?
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It's so interesting to hear their answers.
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Yeah.
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That's actually leads me into my next question.
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Your kids are obviously older now.
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What has changed for you in terms of how screen time plays a role in your family?
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Oh my gosh.
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I mean, they're nine and 14.
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So the 14-year-old actually we're in New York City.
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Um, he started commuting to school on his own by the middle of fifth grade.
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So we got him a phone.
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Um, and I, you know, it was a real test for me because I was out there as a screen time expert.
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I am lucky that I have a kid who is not sucked into social media.
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Um, he has a lot of sort of creative uses for uh for online time, like drawing uh tutorials.
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He listens to a lot of like very, very factual YouTube channels that have a lot of like research and information.
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And I'm happy with his overall relationship with his phone.
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I mean, I think that like he has a lot of hands-on hobbies.
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He loves to cook, he loves to sketch, he loves to make things on a sewing machine.
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So um for me, I'm like, I couldn't be happier.
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Like it's not about me enforcing, I enforce the phone at night.
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That's the main thing that I'm holding the line on with a 14-year-old.
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Um, and then with a nine-year-old, we're talking about next year getting the watch.
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So that's gonna be a step up.
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There's been times when um we've used a past system for the iPad.
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So it's like a certain amount of time per week.
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Um and uh yeah, I feel like, I feel like it's, you know, there's it's gotta evolve as they get older.
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I mean, it has to be an ongoing discussion.
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And my kids are very different from each other, you know, and we have a girl and a boy, so I know that the social media thing will be different for my daughter.
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Um, but yeah, I mean, it's been a definitely an adventure.
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Yeah.
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Um, this summer, uh, lots of parents are making a conscious effort to slow down and unplug.
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Um, what do you make of the trend?
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And do you think it's an over overcorrection?
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And that's so true.
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I I, you know, too much, too little.
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It's always very hard to kind of be in the middle, uh, the middle zone of what's more ideal, right?
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There's no perfection.
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Um, what are your thoughts on that?
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Um, you know, I think what people say on social media is very different from what they actually do.
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Like, no surprise.
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Um that's you know, it's that's that's perfection.
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Um, it's it's the ideal that they aspire to, is what appears on social media, correct?
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Absolutely.
00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:59.440
And that has really influenced modern day parenting, I think, because we just, and sometimes it's in a good way.
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:05.120
Like I have gotten good ideas from Pinterest, and there's been times when I'm like, I'm romanticizing my trip to the park, right?
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:05.519
Whatever.
00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:08.639
Like I got the sidewalk chalk and it's it's all very cute looking.
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:09.840
Um, and that's fine.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.399
It's like taking some something mundane and elevating it.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.399
So whatever, you're in the backyard with popsicles and a hose, like, cool, that's great for you.
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:18.720
You know, um, what's your day-to-day look like?
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.000
And how are you building those little moments of connection and routine?
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.440
Because the reality is you didn't get the whole summer off from work.
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.039
Like that, that's not true.
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.720
And um, and your kids maybe not running around.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:37.759
I mean, one really good point I've seen people make is that the car-dependent neighborhoods make it so hard to give kids the freedom.
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:46.320
Cars are larger, speeds are faster, and that is the number one factor why we can't give our kids the physical freedom that perhaps we saw in in earlier generations.
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:50.879
Um, maybe weren't as wear as the safety, but also the SUVs were not as big in the 90s.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.480
People were driving sedans.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:53.600
Oh, absolutely.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:17:06.559
I just um saw something um about the differences why there are more pedestrian deaths now when there's car accidents, because a regular sedan does not pull you under the car.
00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.119
But if you have an SUV and you've been hit, you're gonna be pulled under.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.880
And that's fascinating.
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.160
That's death, right?
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:16.480
It's all it's a it's a total nightmare.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:16.799
Yeah.
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:22.960
And I just I, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, that is the frame.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:26.000
I mean, you know, that really speaks to it, right?
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:32.480
Uh, about the differences between these huge cars and the the smaller cars that we had uh in the past.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:42.880
But I will say that I was out in um Southern California um last month and I noticed that there aren't as many SUVs around the San Diego area at least.
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:48.400
I think maybe because their gas prices are all were almost seven dollars per gallon.
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.480
I know, take my breath away.
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.720
Um I mean, she lives in New York.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.839
Yeah, but I don't think it's seven bucks a um a gallon.
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.119
It's not as high.
00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:58.960
Yeah, yeah, California source.
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.799
And I was like, oh, you know, so when gas prices are that high and whatever.
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:09.039
Um, yeah, so there's more consciousness about not having the larger cars.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.920
I was interested in what's your what's your rule?
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:16.319
Um, I want to know, because I have a rule about um screens and the bedroom.
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.839
Do you have a guideline or an absolute in your house?
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:20.559
Oh, yeah.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:21.119
Yeah, we do.
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:22.319
I mean, that is the number one.
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.759
See, when I was doing my research on the art of screen time, this was the number one result.
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:30.079
It was the clearest connection between screens, sleep, depression.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:32.720
Um, and we just don't want to do that, right?
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:37.279
So that is the thing, the easiest and the simplest thing to do is to keep these screens out of the bed out of the bedroom.
00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:37.920
Awesome.
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:39.839
I love it because you said in and it's not me.
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:48.000
But I've been thinking for years and I lived it with uh my two teenagers, and I was evil mom for most of their high school years.
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.920
Um and there was a difference between uh boys and girls.
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.079
Like my son, he's like, yeah, okay.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:55.680
You know, he dealt with it.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:04.880
My daughter was always breaking the rules, and she got consequences because we we set up expectations and we had consequences and accountability, you know.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:24.240
Uh of course, now, you know, when they went off to college, I mean, all kinds of media came into their rooms when they come home from college, but at least you're setting some kind of a foundational expectation so that they're also connecting, you know, that we want you to use it, but we know that it's gonna disrupt your sleep.
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:32.000
We know that the blue lights from the screens are actually shutting down your melatonin production that you need in order to fall asleep, right?
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:32.720
Yeah.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:33.279
Yeah.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:38.400
So I and I also uh my husband doesn't do this, but I do charge my phone out of the bedroom myself.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.920
So I keep it, I read the paper book before bed, you know.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:45.119
And these are the things that our kids, you know, my kids are both readers.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:46.960
They see us reading, they're reading.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:52.000
So it's you know, if you're able to model it, it it's it's speaking a lot louder than our words.
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:53.279
Yeah, definitely.
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:55.680
So tell us about the screen-free camp.
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.440
You don't have to say which one, but just why was it important for you to send your kids?
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.200
Um, I mean, there's a lot of values at this camp that we love.
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.559
Um, and uh not having any devices is a big part of that.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.680
We we recognize I mean it's it's hugely privileged, right, to be able to send your kid away for for a few weeks.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.880
Um, but there's, you know, they love it so much.
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:25.759
And I think there's just something so uh wonderful about getting to experience that time offline and uh just focusing on their friends and focusing on being in the moment.
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.599
And they carry that with them throughout the year.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:31.119
I mean, they know they can survive without their phones, and that's a wonderful thing to know.
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:31.920
Yeah.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:38.480
Um, I will say too that we took actually a national park vacation this year, and that's another opportunity.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.920
There's a lot of places in national parks where there's no cell phone, no Wi-Fi.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:45.119
Um, and just as a family, it was like, wow, we feel so spacious.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:45.920
What is happening?
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.079
Oh, no, no, no one's looking at their phones.
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:54.720
So there's other ways to experience it if you can go camping for a weekend or just hey, decide to turn the phones off for a day.
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:56.240
That's also possible, right?
00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.119
Definitely, yeah, and you want to take small steps.
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:06.079
And um, I think of what I know, um my children went to camp, a lot of my patients go to camp.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:16.319
Um, the major the majority of the camps that I know of that are sleepaway, they do have restrictions on phones, which isn't great.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:22.559
And if you do an active day camp, there's also no phones, right?
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:23.039
Yeah.
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:27.519
Um, so and I will I have a little patient story.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:44.160
I have a 13-year-old patient whose best moments of every year is when she goes away to um a sleepaway camp um in Maryland, uh and she's all outdoors and she's like, There's no phones.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.680
And she loves it though.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:50.319
That's the thing, is like she looks forward to it, and like she begs her parents to go for a second week.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.599
And this year she gets to go one week as soon as school lets out.
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.319
She'll have another week later on, and she loves it.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:07.279
And you know, honestly, if you ask if we pull the children who Are able to go to camp and not have use of their phones, nobody's coming back and complaining that I really missed my phone.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.839
So I really want to emphasize that for our parents.
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:10.240
Okay.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.640
But I think it's because other kids aren't on it too.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.960
Like there's a lot of peer pressure with that too.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:20.640
You know, it's like when you're home, it's like, oh, I don't have a phone, but X has a phone or you know, whatever, and then you feel left out.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:28.400
But if everybody's on equal playing field, it makes it a lot easier to just enjoy and I mean we're starting to get a taste of this with the phone bands in schools.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:34.480
And I was doing some reporting on it this year, uh, talked to high school students around New York City, and it was overwhelmingly positive.
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:40.000
I mean, some of the schools, they kind of had to, they had to put a few things out to get the kids playing.
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:55.839
Like they put out some board games, they put out some balls at recess, and uh they actually switched around a lot of how they did their activity time too, because um, like one of the one of the schools was saying, like, we used to send, it was a high school, and they were like, we used to send QR codes with a flyer to sign up for this or that.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:04.480
And now they actually started a morning show, like an announcements video TV show inside the school to talk about what clubs were meeting and what was going on in the day.
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:14.400
And the involvement in extracurriculars had like rebounded way up because kids had more awareness of what was happening and they weren't head downs and their heads down on their phones.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:14.880
Yeah.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:15.680
I love it.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:16.240
I love it.
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.960
And that's like back to the old days.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:27.680
We had school announcements when I was growing up, and kids were really excited to be able to be on that team for the announcements, the morning announcements.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.160
Yes.
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:28.960
So I love it.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.240
That is, you know, there's so many, there's so many goodies.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:45.200
It's not like I don't want us to think that we have to keep going back to the past, but we have to pick up, continue with some good habits from the past and augment it with some new things for the few, you know, that are here and present.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:46.400
So I love that.
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.079
Was that at a public school in New York?
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:49.599
That was at a public school in New York.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.359
And, you know, the research has come out.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.880
It's not supporting that this is causing a massive positive impact on test scores, um, student well-being.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:02.480
There's a little bit, but you know, it's really about like, does it do any harm for the kids to put their phones away during the day?
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:03.359
Absolutely not.
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:04.480
Might it have benefits?
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:05.279
Yes, it might.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.079
So that's where we're we're kind of on that side of the divide now.
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:12.559
I think the reason that we're not seeing any effect is that it's just being introduced.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.039
Okay.
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:18.400
So, you know, you have to have it over time to uh to really do the study.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:24.799
Um, I think this has only been uh an idea that schools have really started adapting in the last year or two.
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:25.839
That's true.
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:26.400
Yeah.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.880
Well, and also like who cares a little bit?
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:34.960
Like, not to be, but like, you know, we are also focused on test scores and performance and you know, achievement.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:42.880
And it's like maybe some things can just be implemented because they're good for your mental health, and it doesn't have reflect at all on the test scores, you know.
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:54.160
That's yeah, but you know, uh lone no child left behind means that um all schools and all teachers and educators are always graded, unfortunately, based on that.
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.920
I wish they'd be also graded on mental health for kids.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:02.240
I think that is a core educational factor, right?
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.960
It's not just academic achievement.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:05.680
Absolutely.
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:07.920
Our podcast is called practical parenting.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:18.640
So we want to leave parents with some practical advice, but um, and you've mentioned a couple things that I think might apply, but you know, what are a couple things parents could implement right now to get some more balance into their lives?
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.640
Um, I think try try the 15-minute focus challenge.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:31.279
So just like, can you can you carve out time in your day to really sit down with your kid and say, like, this is your time, you get to choose what we do, and our focus is going to be on each other.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:33.839
Um, hopefully that's gonna work with the younger child.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.200
I'm not sure it's gonna work with a teenager.
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.799
With a teenager, it might be more like, let me take you out to get a bubble tea, right?
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:43.359
Like there might have to be an incentive, but the idea is the same, right?
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:48.559
Um, I guess the second tip I would have is um everybody's device is out of their bedroom at night.
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.839
Um, that's the simplest thing you can do uh to improve your sleep and your kids' sleep.
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:54.640
Awesome.
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:57.279
Um okay, we're gonna do some quick rapid fire.
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:01.920
Um, so first one, the app or device that you get rid of if you could.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:03.599
Oh my gosh.
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.759
Um I I would get rid of Twitter slash X.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:13.839
I think that its influence on our discourse and our our politics is just totally negative.
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:15.039
I agree.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.079
Um, but what about the app that uh apps that kids use?
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:19.359
Oh kids use.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:22.240
Uh great question.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:29.759
So I mean it's interesting because I feel like social media apps are are kind of on the wane.
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:31.680
They're like going up and going down a little bit.
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:40.000
But certainly TikTok has been tough in terms of the the quickness with which trends come and go and just the the kinds of imagery that are on there.
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:41.119
So yeah, I would say that.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.440
And it's just the stickiness of the algorithm.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:44.319
I love it.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.440
I I think we're so on the same brain wavelength here.
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:48.000
Yeah.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:53.839
Um, best thing about a 90s childhood that kids today are missing the most.
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:08.400
Um, I would say like the smell of the library, just like going there on a hot day and getting the air conditioning and the carpet and just like sitting on the floor like next to the stacks.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:09.680
You're absolutely right.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:11.680
You know, we didn't have AC in our house.
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.240
We only had it in one bedroom, my parents' bedroom, and I do remember us all sleeping in there.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.480
But so we would, I would spend hours at the library because it was air conditioned.
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:20.880
Yeah.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.960
And books were great.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:23.920
I mean, yeah.
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.240
Um, I just dove into the books.
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:27.519
So I have a question.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:32.880
What's the biggest myth about screen time that you wish would just cease and desist?
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:42.400
Um, I think that screen time is like radon gas that's going to like toxically modify your child's brain in some way that we don't understand.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:48.559
I think that parents need to be able to touch, trust their own judgment and look at their kid and observe what's happening.
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:56.240
So, like there's if you have a negative impact or something that factor that's happening in your home, we can address that through multiple means.
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:01.599
But I think parents really fear that like the screens are going to do something that I don't, I'm not aware is happening.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:03.519
And I just don't think that's exactly how it works.
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:04.400
Yeah.
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:05.599
All right, last one.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:10.559
One, what's one book, show, or outdoor activity that you put in every kid's summer?
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:11.839
Oh my gosh.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:17.759
Um, I would have to say like a slip and slide on on freshly cut grass.
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:20.720
But be safe, be careful.
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:27.519
But definitely like the like the like the sprinkler play, like that's really, you know, it's so it's so easy, it's so accessible and so fun.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:28.640
The sprinkler, yeah.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:34.319
Just except, you know, unless we're in a heat wave and we're trying to conserve water, but you're absolutely right.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:44.079
I mean, how much joy did I felt like did there was so much joy in just being on the sprinkler and having the kids run through it when when we were little?
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.319
Um we didn't have a slip and slide, right?
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:50.559
So yeah, and I think really what it boils down to is go outside.
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:54.000
There's so much outdoors, of course, and they're like the weather's hot.
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.079
And I say, well, then go out earlier in the day.
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:00.799
Go out during the day, have a family walk at night, catch fireflies.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:01.680
Oh my gosh.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:02.240
Well, okay.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:07.839
So I would say also like catch the Pleiades, um, the uh the meteor shower in August.
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.640
That is um the Perseids is what it's called.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:11.920
The meteor shower in August.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:16.880
That is a beloved family ritual, and hopefully we try to be in places that have a darker sky to do that.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:18.960
So that's an amazing thing to do.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.480
Anything else you want to add before we wrap up for parents?
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.400
I don't think so.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:29.599
I mean, give yourself some grace because none of us is perfect, and we can always do better tomorrow.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:30.240
Yep.
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:31.920
Yep, tomorrow's a new day.
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.960
You know, mistake today is a lesson for tomorrow, and we're all in it together.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:49.279
And I really would like for instead of these perfect uh media images, I'd like for people to post like, what's a real typical day with a toddler, with a preschooler, you know, here are my struggles.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.240
There there aren't many people doing that.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:05.519
And I think that really sets up this unattainable level of expectation for some parents, like there's parents doing this, why can't I achieve it?
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:10.640
And it's very similar to what the children are experiencing on social media, right?
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:18.240
Because it's the post it's of the perfect life, and then it's like, oh, but I have zits, I'm a little overweight, yeah.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.480
Good at this, that, or the other.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:26.559
I mean, one thing that I wish that uh parent, a big question I get all the time is like, I've let things slide so much.
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:28.079
How do I like rein it back in?
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:29.119
And how do I start over?
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.799
And my answer is always like the great news is your kid is always changing, right?
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:40.000
Your kid's gonna be in a new developmental stage, they're gonna have more ability to tolerate frustration, they'll be able, you'll be able to do a sticker chart where you couldn't before.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.640
You'll be able to try new things and it's always a chance.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:47.680
Like summer is a chance to do that, the next school year is a chance to do that, there's always a chance for a reset.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:48.960
Absolutely awesome.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:50.480
You're evolving with your children.
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:51.200
Remember that.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:54.000
And that's the beauty about kids is that they do evolve.
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:55.839
So they're never stuck in that one place.
00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:00.799
So when you made that misparenting mistake at that particular stage, we're moving forward.
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:01.279
Yeah.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:01.759
Yeah.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:02.160
Yeah.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.160
Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:11.200
Sometimes I think when parents implement things like a 90 summer, what they're really craving is less pressure, less demands, less judgment.
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:12.480
And we all want that feeling.
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.119
And we can get there without fighting against technology.
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:16.799
Um, there's a way to have balance.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:18.880
So thank you, Anya, so much for your time.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:23.200
Um, can you quickly let the listeners know where they can find you and hear more of your insights?
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:25.680
Yeah, find me at the golden hour on Substack.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:26.400
That's my newsletter.
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.920
I read about parenting in this time of you know, really profound change.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:30.640
Awesome.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:31.440
Thank you so much.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:32.160
We appreciate your time.
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:32.480
Great.
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:33.920
Okay, thank you so much for having me on.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:35.440
Thanks so much.
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:37.839
You too.
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:38.720
I will.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:39.680
Okay, bye.
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:40.960
Bye, yeah.
00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:10.800
Welcome back to Practical Parenting, the podcast that helps empower parents in the trenches, find joy in the process, and thrive through it all.
00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:13.039
I'm Christina Wales here with my co-host, Dr.
00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:16.239
Terry Nguyen, Chair of Pediatrics at GBMC Healthcare.
00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:19.120
So this summer, something interesting happened on social media.
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:23.120
Parents started getting nostalgic for summers like the ones we had as kids.
00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:33.600
The feelings of a 90s summer, kids outside until dark, boredom that nobody rushed to fix, bikes, creeks, neighborhood games, and of course, not a screen in sight.
00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:41.920
Families started intentionally unplugging, scaling back the schedules, and trying to give their kids something we have touted a lot on this podcast, unstructured time.
00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.759
But there is more to the 90s summer trend than just nostalgia.
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:54.960
And we wanted to talk today about why this trend caught on, what are parents actually searching for in giving their kids a screen-free summer, and what kids can gain from getting one.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.479
So to help us with this discussion, we have Anya Kamenetz joining us.
00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:05.200
Anya is a longtime education correspondent for NPR and journalist for several other outlets.
00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:19.120
She's also the author of several books, including The Art of Screen Time and The Stolen Year, as well as the creator of the Substack newsletter, The Golden Hour, and host of Life Kit Parenting, a podcast in partnership with a Sesame Workshop.
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.680
She is also, probably most importantly, a mom who just sent her kids to Screen Free Camp.
00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.799
So not only does she study this stuff, but she is living it in real time.
00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:28.879
So, Anya, welcome to Practical Parenting.
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:30.000
We're so glad you're here.
00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:31.040
Thank you so much.
00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:32.560
I'm so happy to be joining you.
00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:34.879
We are so excited to have you and talk with you.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:38.959
Your breadth of knowledge will be enlightening to us and our audience.
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:39.519
Thank you.
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:40.480
Thank you.
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:41.200
Yeah.
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:44.799
So as I mentioned, you wrote The Art of Screen Time back in 2018.
00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:47.439
So how has the conversation shifted since then?
00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:51.519
And do you think parents are more or less equipped to handle it now?
00:01:52.799 --> 00:02:03.040
So I feel like the level of conversation and sort of panic around screen time really hasn't let up in the almost decade since I published that book.
00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:10.879
If anything, it's gotten more intense in the age of AI and also many different kinds of smart devices, VR.
00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:12.240
We went through that trend.
00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:23.280
So for me, I feel like, you know, we are trying to develop our own sea legs under us and figure out, you know, the folk wisdom of how we how we succeed and how we navigate these things.
00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:28.080
And I think that there's, you know, the the concerns have not gotten less, but maybe we're talking about it more.
00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:29.439
And I think that's a good thing.
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:35.120
Um, at the time, you interviewed hundreds of parents about this topic.
00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:39.680
Uh, what kept coming up when as you um spoke with parents?
00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:41.919
And were you surprised by any of it?
00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:47.599
Or um did it uh affirm something that you already knew?
00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.840
So I think you know what comes up a lot is guilt, shame, and confusion.
00:02:52.000 --> 00:03:00.479
Um, this is a major area of judgment where parents feel judged by their elders, they feel judged by other parents, they feel judged out in public.
00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:02.159
And that judgment can cut both ways.
00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:07.520
I mean, you can get side-eyed for um having a toddler on an iPad in a restaurant.
00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:11.039
You can also get side-eyed for letting that toddler roam the tables in the restaurant.
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.639
So, you know, it's often seems like it's a no-win situation.
00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:25.120
And uh, you know, the the way to kind of cut through that is really to clarify what your values are as a family, what you're trying to prioritize, and also what does your individual kid need?
00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:34.800
You know, I think something that we've really learned and maybe a surprise for me was the way that screens really interact with neurodivergence and um the different patterns and needs that our kids have.
00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:41.599
So figuring out how some kids can really, they can, they can watch a couple of cartoons and shut it off and it's no problem.
00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:42.800
They go on with their day.
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:46.080
Other kids are much more sensitive and it's going to be a big tantrum.
00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:49.680
Or that screen might be the ultimate soothing thing.
00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:58.400
You know, I had a notable example in my book of a child with cystic fibrosis and they had hours every day in their therapeutic vest, right?
00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:01.280
Where they're taking, they're getting their percussion for their lungs.
00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.520
And that hours, those were screen time hours.
00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:07.199
And their sibling is like, why does my sibling get so much screen time?
00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:12.319
And it's like, well, this is making something that would be so hard for us so, so much easier.
00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:17.199
So we really have to be so understanding of families' different situations and needs.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:40.240
I'm I was gonna say, I'm glad you said that because I feel like we talk about that a lot, just parenting the kid in front of you and recognizing their specific needs versus um just you know, quote unquote, like flat out rules about specific, you know, screen time, like it should only be an hour or it should only be for certain types of kids or whatever the case may be.
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:48.000
So um yeah, and that really ties into what the American Academy of Pediatrics latest guidelines are for social media use, right?
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:49.759
Or digital media use.
00:04:50.000 --> 00:05:01.839
Um, it really is about uh what's the content, what's the quality of the content, uh, what is it crowding out, um, you know, um, what other activities is it replacing?
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:08.240
So um I think you you just hit the nail on the head and you saw it, you know, in your live interviews.
00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:13.279
Um, so I want to put a plug-in for the American Academy of Pediatrics Family Media Plan.
00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:20.240
It's the five C's of, you know, what do you want uh out of digital uh media for your kids?
00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:22.240
Um I'm so happy you brought that up.
00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:22.560
Dr.
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.920
Jenny Redesky is a is a doctor that I've relied in for a really long time.
00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.759
Um and she has a book coming out also.
00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:32.879
And the the focus that she's always kept too is on your relationship with your child, right?
00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:36.959
So screen time starts with you have a baby, right?
00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:42.560
And you are might be breastfeeding and looking at your messages while you're breastfeeding, or you're watching television during late night feedings.
00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:51.279
And the way that the screens work in the home and the way that they work sometimes in between you and your kid, or they could be augmenting you and your kid.
00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:56.160
So, how are we creating connection with and without devices in our home?
00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:59.199
We really have to look as adults who to look at ourselves first.
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.519
Yeah, because we model, right?
00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:16.000
And those five C's of the media use is child, what's the child's developmental level, what's their age, what's the content of what they're um, you know, um receiving from the media source?
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.079
And are we using it to calm them?
00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:24.160
You know, everybody needs the babysitter in the restaurant, the babysitter, uh, I mean of the screen, right?
00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:31.759
In the restaurant, or when you have to use the restroom and you you and your kid will only like just stay away from being attached to you.
00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:33.519
Um what's it crowding out?
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:34.480
What other activities?
00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.759
And you also mentioned communication, communication and relationship with your child.
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:46.959
So um it covers all the points, and I'm delighted that um, you know, that's where our conversation is coming from.
00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:57.839
So it's the real life, the um, and the uh, you know, and I love that it's been put into a framework for parents to uh to help guide them as well.
00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.560
And you are so spot on about the shame and guilt.
00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:01.439
Yeah.
00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:02.160
Yes.
00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:02.720
Yeah.
00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:03.600
Yeah.
00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:09.120
Well, and it's interesting too, because I I often find that the there's a performative shame and guilt, right?
00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:13.600
So so we express to each other, oh, I'm bad at this, I'm not doing a good job.
00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:16.560
And it it's almost like you're letting yourself off the hook in that way.
00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:24.240
It's like, well, we can we always mess up, but we can always do better, you know, and just saying kind of like I've given up, it's like, well, your kid's not giving up.
00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:28.319
Like you have to, you still have to have a plan and you still have to kind of work on it, right?
00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:33.360
So for me, I I kind of want to like push past that conversation and be like, well, what's actually going on here?
00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:36.160
Are you are you upset with your screen time rules?
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:38.319
What actual problems is it causing in the house?
00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.720
Um, and and what are you prepared to do about it?
00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:41.439
Exactly.
00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:42.720
It's what action?
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:44.959
So, okay, we're aware that this is off.
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:46.720
This is not the way we want it to be.
00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:51.839
But you know, as parents, it's the first part is reflecting back on what we're modeling, right?
00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:57.759
So if you're on the screen all the time and you're on the screen while you're playing with your kid, like can you put away the phone?
00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:02.160
Like, do you need the phone while you're playing a board game with them?
00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:05.360
Or you know, it's just like being are you being present?
00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:09.600
You can't ask to be present if you don't even know how to be present, right?
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.519
And that's a big challenge.
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:14.879
I mean, I was guilty as indicted, you know.
00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:20.800
I was on call before the age of um you have to be attached to the phone, basically.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:25.519
And I I would be on the phone a lot while I was playing with my kids on the weekend when I was on call.
00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:30.959
And I would say five minutes, it's never five minutes, you know, it goes from one call to the next to the next.
00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:34.639
And so I have to self-reflect and go, really?
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.840
Um, so yeah, when I say there's no phones at the dinner table, and I have older children, they're in their 20s now.
00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:44.080
Um, they're college age students.
00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.080
We um, but we all have to do it.
00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.720
And then of course, my husband whips out his phone from his pocket.
00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:53.600
I'm like, uh honey, dad, you can't be having the phone at the table either.
00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:59.440
And it's not that it's bad, it's you know, if you want to look up something to contribute to the conversation, that's one thing.
00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:04.399
But if you're, you know, your attention is being so diverted, right?
00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:15.120
You're sort of in the conversation here, and you're sort of in the conversation with your friend on um on text, you're at you're actually not present for either conversation.
00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:15.679
Yeah.
00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:16.879
Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:27.600
I mean, the the way I like to flip that around when people start to want to, you know, make inroads and improve in that area is that, you know, we can cultivate mindfulness by sitting and meditating for just a few minutes a day.
00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.279
And by the same token, we can have focus time with our children.
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.240
You know, you can set a timer and say, we've got 15 minutes.
00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:35.200
I'm at your disposal.
00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.159
Whatever you want to do is what we're gonna do right now, right?
00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:41.679
And give them that soak up time and that 100% focus.
00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:48.240
You're not gonna be able to be on all day, especially if it's a summer, you're working from home, obviously you're gonna attention's gonna be pulled in different directions.
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:54.240
But if you can, to be formal about it, set aside that time and say, this is our time, I feel like it can make a big difference.
00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:55.600
What do you guys think?
00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:58.080
Oh, totally agree with that.
00:09:58.159 --> 00:09:58.399
Yeah.
00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.679
I mean, I yeah, I think that's the best way to do it is just even to start small.
00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:07.600
I mean, we talk about that with anything when you're, you know, trying to eat better, when you're trying to exercise, like, you know, just try those 10 minutes.
00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.879
Like it's it might not seem like a lot, but it's the habit forming.
00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:14.559
And then once you get that, it you're able to get better from there.
00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:17.600
And I mean, I'll take a parenting thing.
00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:33.519
Um, like when you have a new baby in the home, I always recommend to parents, and especially moms, because they're often the primary caretaker for the babies, because if they're breastfeeding, they're feeding the child and they're their parents still at home and you know, their partner or spouse is back at work.
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:41.919
I say, please a lot, you know, set off 15, 20 minutes a day that you are spending with your other child, your older child, right?
00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:48.639
And that is time that you will only spend, you know, that it's focused on that child, your older child.
00:10:48.879 --> 00:11:00.960
And unless the, you know, and the other parent is tending to the baby, um, and unless the house is burning down, it's it's the b it's your child, you you know, your special time with your child.
00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:02.879
And that is so meaningful, right?
00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:06.559
We know that we've already done that, and it really does work.
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:14.080
It kind of soothes the child, it it reaffirms that they're still a center of your attention and center of your love.
00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:20.159
Um, so you know, take it to a different scenario and we're doing it with screens.
00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:22.879
And gosh, it shouldn't be that hard, right?
00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:31.120
Because that's what we did with our parents when I mean, there were definitely no screens when, you know, I was growing up in the 70s.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:37.360
Um, you know, and I you had to talk to your parents at the dinner table.
00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:40.240
Um, we had one TV and it was a black and white.
00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:41.200
I'm not kidding.
00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.000
Uh, and it was in the dining room, it was in the family, it was in the living room, right?
00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:53.519
But now because we have more access and we have more means doesn't mean we have to take use it all the time.
00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:55.039
Go back to the basics.
00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:59.120
It's it's about the relationship building and the communication.
00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:06.159
I mean, one of the biggest things that we talk about in pediatrics is what should be sacred is dinner time.
00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:06.720
Yeah.
00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:08.960
We all lead really busy lives.
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.080
We can't, you know, have family dinners every night.
00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:13.440
I'm I live in reality.
00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:15.360
I had children who were in sports.
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.960
But, you know, can you set a priority for a few nights a week?
00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:25.519
Two, three, you know, and have family meetings and discussions that make it fun.
00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.879
Um, the family meeting is so important, you know.
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:38.480
Um, everybody, you know, shares what was great this week, what wasn't so great, what would we like to work on uh individually and as a family, and you track it over time.
00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:43.840
And families who do that um have really better improved communication.
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.000
Now it's not that they don't have conflict, right?
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:53.440
But they have uh improved communication skills between children and parents and uh and just parents and parents, right?
00:12:53.600 --> 00:13:03.440
Everybody gets their uh space to express themselves and uh express their opinions, whether it's and it can be different.
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:16.320
I mean, this is where I sort of take the crowding out concept from the American Academy Pediatrics and I flip it around and say, how are you structuring your day and your routine as a family so that there's positive things that do crowd out the screen time, right?
00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.960
So it could be family meal, could be outdoor time.
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:23.039
I am an absolute uh just radical about outdoor time.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:23.840
My kids know this.
00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.039
One time we played a game.
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.480
I don't know if I recommend this game, but it's like, what does mom always say?
00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:30.080
What does dad always say?
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.200
And for me, it was absolutely it was go outside.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.399
My kids like I love controversial questions like that.
00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:38.080
Like, what do you think I could be better at?
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.159
It's so interesting to hear their answers.
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:40.480
Yeah.
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:42.320
That's actually leads me into my next question.
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:43.840
Your kids are obviously older now.
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:47.679
What has changed for you in terms of how screen time plays a role in your family?
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:48.559
Oh my gosh.
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:50.000
I mean, they're nine and 14.
00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:53.200
So the 14-year-old actually we're in New York City.
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:56.879
Um, he started commuting to school on his own by the middle of fifth grade.
00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:58.240
So we got him a phone.
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:02.320
Um, and I, you know, it was a real test for me because I was out there as a screen time expert.
00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:06.399
I am lucky that I have a kid who is not sucked into social media.
00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:14.320
Um, he has a lot of sort of creative uses for uh for online time, like drawing uh tutorials.
00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:20.240
He listens to a lot of like very, very factual YouTube channels that have a lot of like research and information.
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.120
And I'm happy with his overall relationship with his phone.
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.399
I mean, I think that like he has a lot of hands-on hobbies.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.639
He loves to cook, he loves to sketch, he loves to make things on a sewing machine.
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:33.679
So um for me, I'm like, I couldn't be happier.
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:36.559
Like it's not about me enforcing, I enforce the phone at night.
00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:40.080
That's the main thing that I'm holding the line on with a 14-year-old.
00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:44.240
Um, and then with a nine-year-old, we're talking about next year getting the watch.
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.080
So that's gonna be a step up.
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.159
There's been times when um we've used a past system for the iPad.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.720
So it's like a certain amount of time per week.
00:14:53.039 --> 00:15:00.879
Um and uh yeah, I feel like, I feel like it's, you know, there's it's gotta evolve as they get older.
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:02.639
I mean, it has to be an ongoing discussion.
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:08.879
And my kids are very different from each other, you know, and we have a girl and a boy, so I know that the social media thing will be different for my daughter.
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:12.000
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's been a definitely an adventure.
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:12.559
Yeah.
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:19.679
Um, this summer, uh, lots of parents are making a conscious effort to slow down and unplug.
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:22.000
Um, what do you make of the trend?
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.639
And do you think it's an over overcorrection?
00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:26.159
And that's so true.
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.360
I I, you know, too much, too little.
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:36.159
It's always very hard to kind of be in the middle, uh, the middle zone of what's more ideal, right?
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:37.360
There's no perfection.
00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.440
Um, what are your thoughts on that?
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:44.159
Um, you know, I think what people say on social media is very different from what they actually do.
00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:45.600
Like, no surprise.
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.480
Um that's you know, it's that's that's perfection.
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:54.320
Um, it's it's the ideal that they aspire to, is what appears on social media, correct?
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:54.960
Absolutely.
00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:59.440
And that has really influenced modern day parenting, I think, because we just, and sometimes it's in a good way.
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:05.120
Like I have gotten good ideas from Pinterest, and there's been times when I'm like, I'm romanticizing my trip to the park, right?
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:05.519
Whatever.
00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:08.639
Like I got the sidewalk chalk and it's it's all very cute looking.
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:09.840
Um, and that's fine.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.399
It's like taking some something mundane and elevating it.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.399
So whatever, you're in the backyard with popsicles and a hose, like, cool, that's great for you.
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:18.720
You know, um, what's your day-to-day look like?
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.000
And how are you building those little moments of connection and routine?
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.440
Because the reality is you didn't get the whole summer off from work.
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.039
Like that, that's not true.
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.720
And um, and your kids maybe not running around.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:37.759
I mean, one really good point I've seen people make is that the car-dependent neighborhoods make it so hard to give kids the freedom.
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:46.320
Cars are larger, speeds are faster, and that is the number one factor why we can't give our kids the physical freedom that perhaps we saw in in earlier generations.
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:50.879
Um, maybe weren't as wear as the safety, but also the SUVs were not as big in the 90s.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.480
People were driving sedans.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:53.600
Oh, absolutely.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:17:06.559
I just um saw something um about the differences why there are more pedestrian deaths now when there's car accidents, because a regular sedan does not pull you under the car.
00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.119
But if you have an SUV and you've been hit, you're gonna be pulled under.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.880
And that's fascinating.
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.160
That's death, right?
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:16.480
It's all it's a it's a total nightmare.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:16.799
Yeah.
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:22.960
And I just I, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, that is the frame.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:26.000
I mean, you know, that really speaks to it, right?
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:32.480
Uh, about the differences between these huge cars and the the smaller cars that we had uh in the past.
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:42.880
But I will say that I was out in um Southern California um last month and I noticed that there aren't as many SUVs around the San Diego area at least.
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:48.400
I think maybe because their gas prices are all were almost seven dollars per gallon.
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.480
I know, take my breath away.
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.720
Um I mean, she lives in New York.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.839
Yeah, but I don't think it's seven bucks a um a gallon.
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.119
It's not as high.
00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:58.960
Yeah, yeah, California source.
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.799
And I was like, oh, you know, so when gas prices are that high and whatever.
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:09.039
Um, yeah, so there's more consciousness about not having the larger cars.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.920
I was interested in what's your what's your rule?
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:16.319
Um, I want to know, because I have a rule about um screens and the bedroom.
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.839
Do you have a guideline or an absolute in your house?
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:20.559
Oh, yeah.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:21.119
Yeah, we do.
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:22.319
I mean, that is the number one.
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.759
See, when I was doing my research on the art of screen time, this was the number one result.
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:30.079
It was the clearest connection between screens, sleep, depression.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:32.720
Um, and we just don't want to do that, right?
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:37.279
So that is the thing, the easiest and the simplest thing to do is to keep these screens out of the bed out of the bedroom.
00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:37.920
Awesome.
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:39.839
I love it because you said in and it's not me.
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:48.000
But I've been thinking for years and I lived it with uh my two teenagers, and I was evil mom for most of their high school years.
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.920
Um and there was a difference between uh boys and girls.
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.079
Like my son, he's like, yeah, okay.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:55.680
You know, he dealt with it.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:04.880
My daughter was always breaking the rules, and she got consequences because we we set up expectations and we had consequences and accountability, you know.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:24.240
Uh of course, now, you know, when they went off to college, I mean, all kinds of media came into their rooms when they come home from college, but at least you're setting some kind of a foundational expectation so that they're also connecting, you know, that we want you to use it, but we know that it's gonna disrupt your sleep.
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:32.000
We know that the blue lights from the screens are actually shutting down your melatonin production that you need in order to fall asleep, right?
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:32.720
Yeah.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:33.279
Yeah.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:38.400
So I and I also uh my husband doesn't do this, but I do charge my phone out of the bedroom myself.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.920
So I keep it, I read the paper book before bed, you know.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:45.119
And these are the things that our kids, you know, my kids are both readers.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:46.960
They see us reading, they're reading.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:52.000
So it's you know, if you're able to model it, it it's it's speaking a lot louder than our words.
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:53.279
Yeah, definitely.
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:55.680
So tell us about the screen-free camp.
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.440
You don't have to say which one, but just why was it important for you to send your kids?
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.200
Um, I mean, there's a lot of values at this camp that we love.
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.559
Um, and uh not having any devices is a big part of that.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.680
We we recognize I mean it's it's hugely privileged, right, to be able to send your kid away for for a few weeks.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.880
Um, but there's, you know, they love it so much.
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:25.759
And I think there's just something so uh wonderful about getting to experience that time offline and uh just focusing on their friends and focusing on being in the moment.
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.599
And they carry that with them throughout the year.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:31.119
I mean, they know they can survive without their phones, and that's a wonderful thing to know.
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:31.920
Yeah.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:38.480
Um, I will say too that we took actually a national park vacation this year, and that's another opportunity.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.920
There's a lot of places in national parks where there's no cell phone, no Wi-Fi.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:45.119
Um, and just as a family, it was like, wow, we feel so spacious.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:45.920
What is happening?
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.079
Oh, no, no, no one's looking at their phones.
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:54.720
So there's other ways to experience it if you can go camping for a weekend or just hey, decide to turn the phones off for a day.
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:56.240
That's also possible, right?
00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.119
Definitely, yeah, and you want to take small steps.
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:06.079
And um, I think of what I know, um my children went to camp, a lot of my patients go to camp.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:16.319
Um, the major the majority of the camps that I know of that are sleepaway, they do have restrictions on phones, which isn't great.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:22.559
And if you do an active day camp, there's also no phones, right?
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:23.039
Yeah.
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:27.519
Um, so and I will I have a little patient story.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:44.160
I have a 13-year-old patient whose best moments of every year is when she goes away to um a sleepaway camp um in Maryland, uh and she's all outdoors and she's like, There's no phones.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.680
And she loves it though.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:50.319
That's the thing, is like she looks forward to it, and like she begs her parents to go for a second week.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.599
And this year she gets to go one week as soon as school lets out.
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.319
She'll have another week later on, and she loves it.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:07.279
And you know, honestly, if you ask if we pull the children who Are able to go to camp and not have use of their phones, nobody's coming back and complaining that I really missed my phone.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.839
So I really want to emphasize that for our parents.
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:10.240
Okay.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.640
But I think it's because other kids aren't on it too.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.960
Like there's a lot of peer pressure with that too.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:20.640
You know, it's like when you're home, it's like, oh, I don't have a phone, but X has a phone or you know, whatever, and then you feel left out.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:28.400
But if everybody's on equal playing field, it makes it a lot easier to just enjoy and I mean we're starting to get a taste of this with the phone bands in schools.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:34.480
And I was doing some reporting on it this year, uh, talked to high school students around New York City, and it was overwhelmingly positive.
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:40.000
I mean, some of the schools, they kind of had to, they had to put a few things out to get the kids playing.
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:55.839
Like they put out some board games, they put out some balls at recess, and uh they actually switched around a lot of how they did their activity time too, because um, like one of the one of the schools was saying, like, we used to send, it was a high school, and they were like, we used to send QR codes with a flyer to sign up for this or that.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:04.480
And now they actually started a morning show, like an announcements video TV show inside the school to talk about what clubs were meeting and what was going on in the day.
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:14.400
And the involvement in extracurriculars had like rebounded way up because kids had more awareness of what was happening and they weren't head downs and their heads down on their phones.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:14.880
Yeah.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:15.680
I love it.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:16.240
I love it.
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.960
And that's like back to the old days.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:27.680
We had school announcements when I was growing up, and kids were really excited to be able to be on that team for the announcements, the morning announcements.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.160
Yes.
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:28.960
So I love it.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.240
That is, you know, there's so many, there's so many goodies.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:45.200
It's not like I don't want us to think that we have to keep going back to the past, but we have to pick up, continue with some good habits from the past and augment it with some new things for the few, you know, that are here and present.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:46.400
So I love that.
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.079
Was that at a public school in New York?
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:49.599
That was at a public school in New York.
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.359
And, you know, the research has come out.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.880
It's not supporting that this is causing a massive positive impact on test scores, um, student well-being.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:02.480
There's a little bit, but you know, it's really about like, does it do any harm for the kids to put their phones away during the day?
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:03.359
Absolutely not.
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:04.480
Might it have benefits?
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:05.279
Yes, it might.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.079
So that's where we're we're kind of on that side of the divide now.
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:12.559
I think the reason that we're not seeing any effect is that it's just being introduced.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.039
Okay.
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:18.400
So, you know, you have to have it over time to uh to really do the study.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:24.799
Um, I think this has only been uh an idea that schools have really started adapting in the last year or two.
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:25.839
That's true.
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:26.400
Yeah.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.880
Well, and also like who cares a little bit?
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:34.960
Like, not to be, but like, you know, we are also focused on test scores and performance and you know, achievement.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:42.880
And it's like maybe some things can just be implemented because they're good for your mental health, and it doesn't have reflect at all on the test scores, you know.
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:54.160
That's yeah, but you know, uh lone no child left behind means that um all schools and all teachers and educators are always graded, unfortunately, based on that.
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.920
I wish they'd be also graded on mental health for kids.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:02.240
I think that is a core educational factor, right?
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.960
It's not just academic achievement.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:05.680
Absolutely.
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:07.920
Our podcast is called practical parenting.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:18.640
So we want to leave parents with some practical advice, but um, and you've mentioned a couple things that I think might apply, but you know, what are a couple things parents could implement right now to get some more balance into their lives?
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.640
Um, I think try try the 15-minute focus challenge.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:31.279
So just like, can you can you carve out time in your day to really sit down with your kid and say, like, this is your time, you get to choose what we do, and our focus is going to be on each other.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:33.839
Um, hopefully that's gonna work with the younger child.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.200
I'm not sure it's gonna work with a teenager.
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.799
With a teenager, it might be more like, let me take you out to get a bubble tea, right?
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:43.359
Like there might have to be an incentive, but the idea is the same, right?
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:48.559
Um, I guess the second tip I would have is um everybody's device is out of their bedroom at night.
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.839
Um, that's the simplest thing you can do uh to improve your sleep and your kids' sleep.
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:54.640
Awesome.
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:57.279
Um okay, we're gonna do some quick rapid fire.
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:01.920
Um, so first one, the app or device that you get rid of if you could.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:03.599
Oh my gosh.
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.759
Um I I would get rid of Twitter slash X.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:13.839
I think that its influence on our discourse and our our politics is just totally negative.
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:15.039
I agree.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.079
Um, but what about the app that uh apps that kids use?
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:19.359
Oh kids use.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:22.240
Uh great question.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:29.759
So I mean it's interesting because I feel like social media apps are are kind of on the wane.
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:31.680
They're like going up and going down a little bit.
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:40.000
But certainly TikTok has been tough in terms of the the quickness with which trends come and go and just the the kinds of imagery that are on there.
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:41.119
So yeah, I would say that.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.440
And it's just the stickiness of the algorithm.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:44.319
I love it.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.440
I I think we're so on the same brain wavelength here.
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:48.000
Yeah.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:53.839
Um, best thing about a 90s childhood that kids today are missing the most.
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:08.400
Um, I would say like the smell of the library, just like going there on a hot day and getting the air conditioning and the carpet and just like sitting on the floor like next to the stacks.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:09.680
You're absolutely right.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:11.680
You know, we didn't have AC in our house.
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.240
We only had it in one bedroom, my parents' bedroom, and I do remember us all sleeping in there.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.480
But so we would, I would spend hours at the library because it was air conditioned.
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:20.880
Yeah.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.960
And books were great.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:23.920
I mean, yeah.
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.240
Um, I just dove into the books.
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:27.519
So I have a question.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:32.880
What's the biggest myth about screen time that you wish would just cease and desist?
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:42.400
Um, I think that screen time is like radon gas that's going to like toxically modify your child's brain in some way that we don't understand.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:48.559
I think that parents need to be able to touch, trust their own judgment and look at their kid and observe what's happening.
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:56.240
So, like there's if you have a negative impact or something that factor that's happening in your home, we can address that through multiple means.
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:01.599
But I think parents really fear that like the screens are going to do something that I don't, I'm not aware is happening.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:03.519
And I just don't think that's exactly how it works.
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:04.400
Yeah.
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:05.599
All right, last one.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:10.559
One, what's one book, show, or outdoor activity that you put in every kid's summer?
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:11.839
Oh my gosh.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:17.759
Um, I would have to say like a slip and slide on on freshly cut grass.
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:20.720
But be safe, be careful.
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:27.519
But definitely like the like the like the sprinkler play, like that's really, you know, it's so it's so easy, it's so accessible and so fun.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:28.640
The sprinkler, yeah.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:34.319
Just except, you know, unless we're in a heat wave and we're trying to conserve water, but you're absolutely right.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:44.079
I mean, how much joy did I felt like did there was so much joy in just being on the sprinkler and having the kids run through it when when we were little?
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.319
Um we didn't have a slip and slide, right?
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:50.559
So yeah, and I think really what it boils down to is go outside.
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:54.000
There's so much outdoors, of course, and they're like the weather's hot.
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.079
And I say, well, then go out earlier in the day.
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:00.799
Go out during the day, have a family walk at night, catch fireflies.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:01.680
Oh my gosh.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:02.240
Well, okay.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:07.839
So I would say also like catch the Pleiades, um, the uh the meteor shower in August.
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.640
That is um the Perseids is what it's called.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:11.920
The meteor shower in August.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:16.880
That is a beloved family ritual, and hopefully we try to be in places that have a darker sky to do that.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:18.960
So that's an amazing thing to do.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.480
Anything else you want to add before we wrap up for parents?
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.400
I don't think so.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:29.599
I mean, give yourself some grace because none of us is perfect, and we can always do better tomorrow.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:30.240
Yep.
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:31.920
Yep, tomorrow's a new day.
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.960
You know, mistake today is a lesson for tomorrow, and we're all in it together.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:49.279
And I really would like for instead of these perfect uh media images, I'd like for people to post like, what's a real typical day with a toddler, with a preschooler, you know, here are my struggles.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.240
There there aren't many people doing that.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:05.519
And I think that really sets up this unattainable level of expectation for some parents, like there's parents doing this, why can't I achieve it?
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:10.640
And it's very similar to what the children are experiencing on social media, right?
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:18.240
Because it's the post it's of the perfect life, and then it's like, oh, but I have zits, I'm a little overweight, yeah.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.480
Good at this, that, or the other.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:26.559
I mean, one thing that I wish that uh parent, a big question I get all the time is like, I've let things slide so much.
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:28.079
How do I like rein it back in?
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:29.119
And how do I start over?
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.799
And my answer is always like the great news is your kid is always changing, right?
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:40.000
Your kid's gonna be in a new developmental stage, they're gonna have more ability to tolerate frustration, they'll be able, you'll be able to do a sticker chart where you couldn't before.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.640
You'll be able to try new things and it's always a chance.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:47.680
Like summer is a chance to do that, the next school year is a chance to do that, there's always a chance for a reset.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:48.960
Absolutely awesome.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:50.480
You're evolving with your children.
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:51.200
Remember that.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:54.000
And that's the beauty about kids is that they do evolve.
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:55.839
So they're never stuck in that one place.
00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:00.799
So when you made that misparenting mistake at that particular stage, we're moving forward.
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:01.279
Yeah.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:01.759
Yeah.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:02.160
Yeah.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.160
Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:11.200
Sometimes I think when parents implement things like a 90 summer, what they're really craving is less pressure, less demands, less judgment.
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:12.480
And we all want that feeling.
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.119
And we can get there without fighting against technology.
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:16.799
Um, there's a way to have balance.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:18.880
So thank you, Anya, so much for your time.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:23.200
Um, can you quickly let the listeners know where they can find you and hear more of your insights?
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:25.680
Yeah, find me at the golden hour on Substack.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:26.400
That's my newsletter.
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.920
I read about parenting in this time of you know, really profound change.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:30.640
Awesome.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:31.440
Thank you so much.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:32.160
We appreciate your time.
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:32.480
Great.
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:33.920
Okay, thank you so much for having me on.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:35.440
Thanks so much.
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:37.839
You too.
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:38.720
I will.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:39.680
Okay, bye.
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:40.960
Bye, yeah.
