Modernization Without Losing Identity: Discipline, Culture, and the Modern CFO Role

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I think the modern CFO is akin to like a Swiss Army knife.

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You can't be an expert in everything, but you have to be an expert in a few things, three
or four or five.

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You know obviously you have to be an expert in the accounting, finance, and tax.

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And then, you know, you need to develop working knowledge in kind of all the other aspects
of your business.

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Welcome back to ACS Portfolio Perspective.

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I'm your host, Andrew Pace, Chief Client Experience Officer at ACS, joined today by Karin
Jernigan.

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He's the Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer at LAI Fleet, a national
vehicle leasing and fleet management company headquartered in Houston, Texas.

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He has more than 20 years of experience in finance, accounting, operations, and business
leadership with a career that spans both public and private companies.

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At LAI Fleet,

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Kareem leads a broad set of functions, including finance, accounting, tax, credit,
remarketing, insurance, human resources, and compliance.

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He is also helping lead the company through a major transformation as LAI Fleet modernizes
its operating platform, replaces legacy systems, and builds the infrastructure needed to

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support long term growth.

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Kareem is a certified public accountant, licensed in Texas, holds an MBA from the
University of Houston.

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And brings deep experience in technical accounting, financial modeling, portfolio
management, process improvement, and strategic execution.

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Before his business career, Kareem served in the United States Marine Corps, an experience
that continues to shape his approach to leadership, discipline, accountability, and

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continuous improvement.

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Outside of work, Kareem is a husband, father, entrepreneur, and lifelong learner.

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He enjoys strength training, golf, and studying the connection between personal
discipline.

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leadership and business performance.

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Kareem, welcome to the show.

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Thank you, Andrew.

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I appreciate the the warm introduction.

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Anytime.

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And thank you for your service.

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Um that that's that's unbelievable that you you you did that for for for us.

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I appreciate that.

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Let's start with something many of our listeners are navigating right now, balancing
modernization with identity.

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Uh you guys you you talked we we talked about um

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before the show, mod your your legacy platform, um transitioning uh without losing your
identity.

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Let's talk about what drives the decision to replace, you know, 40 years of platform and
how you think about de-risking a transition that to of that magnitude.

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So LEI Fleet, formerly known as Leasing Associates Inc., we've been in business since
nineteen fifty eight.

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we currently have eleven offices across six states.

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Tens of thousands of vehicles on the road.

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And so so when an organization has been around as long as we have, um, every so often you
have to re-in the organization has to remake itself, reinvent itself.

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And so we've been operating very effectively on a legacy system, green screens, zombie
terminals.

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Um, and so what happens is entities will start to incur what I call what's called
technical debt.

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And we

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previously didn't make the investment in this legacy system.

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And so what happens is is that you get so far behind from a technology standpoint that it
just gets too hard to to continue to modernize the system.

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And so so what what happens is is that um the longer we the each year the the cost to
maintain the system and the risk to maintain the system gets higher because the number of

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people who can

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um code in this, you know, in this legacy system, they they cease to exist.

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We all, you know, it's the cycle of life.

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You saw the Lion King.

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And so um just the number of people it's like it's like Latin, right?

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Kids are coming out of school, they're learning different languages, they're learning
computer programming languages.

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They're learning different languages, but they're not learning this this kind of old
technology language.

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And so it works.

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It works very, very effectively.

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um It's pretty efficient.

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Um, and it's a f it's a full end-to-end system, something that doesn't truly exist in
equipment finance.

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And so when you think about the software that's running the equipment finance industry,
most of the independents are on a will have a CRM on the front end, right?

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That they're doing their prospecting, their quoting and maybe their documents in, and then
they'll have a lease and loan origination system.

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Um

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And then they'll have an accounting system.

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And then we're a fleet manager.

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So then a fleet management system.

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And so we went out and we looked at we looked at the marketplace and we looked at all the
solutions.

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And there are a lot of great solutions out there.

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And we've looked at all of them.

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But we're kind of we're kind of a tweener um in the equipment finance space.

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So we we provide the lease, which is that.

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That financial instrument, but we're also a fleet manager as well.

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And so when you think about the different asset classes out there, the vehicle is one of
the harder asset classes to to manage from a back office perspective because you're

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dealing with so many government agencies.

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So long story short, we looked at everything in the marketplace and there was nothing that
quite fit what our business.

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And so we had a homegrown system that's

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Full end-to-end.

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And when I say end-to-end, it we prospect from this legacy system.

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We quote in this legacy system.

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Uh, we originate contracts in the legacy system, it bills, we do securitizations in this
legacy system, it does our accounting, it does our finance and reporting, it does our

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taxes.

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In this legacy system, we've had one for 40 years, right?

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And so, so that's kind of how we got to this point.

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And so it's definitely

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It's quite the task.

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It's like, you know, like we mentioned before we got started, it's like remodeling a house
while you live in it, right?

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And taking it down to the studs.

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And so, you know, it's it's been a tall order and we're we'll be going lock pretty soon
here.

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And so I'll be I'll be happy to kind of get this thing behind me.

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I bet.

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So how do you approach reverse engineering and removing bottlenecks from core pro
processes like month end close, audits, reconciliations, and what like tangible impact

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does that have on your customers?

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So, you know, I software, right?

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Like, at our core, we're a customer service business, right?

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Um, and we we are managing our customers' fleet from cradle to grave, basically.

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So we will factory order the vehicle from from Ford or GM or whatever the customer's
driving.

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We deliver that vehicle to their doorstep anywhere in the country.

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Um, we have a license and title department.

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So we're managing license title and registration over life of the vehicle.

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We are we we have a maintenance management department.

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So we're managing maintenance uh for that vehicle for the life of the vehicle.

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And then when it comes time to rinse and replete, you know, the life of a medium light
duty truck or van is, you know, anywhere from 48 to 60 months, about a hundred thousand to

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a hundred and twenty thousand miles.

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So we we're even doing the remarketing,

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as well.

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And so when you think about the demop d the the bottlenecks associated with it, right now
we have really strong and deep processes, right?

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But a lot of paper processes.

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And so um so one of the things that we'll be able to do, you know, on day zero when we go
live is we'll be able to originate a a a new lease with zero paper.

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Right.

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Which is for us, like if you think about the, you know,

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uh we will never get paperless, at least, you know, until kind of like government agencies
change, but but um over the life of a vehicle, there are like 15 pieces of paper that you

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actually have to have.

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Right.

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And so in the origination process or or in the termination process, you have to have a you
have to have a oddometer statement depending on the state.

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You have to have sometimes a power of attorney depending on the state.

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You're gonna have a a uh a title

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Right.

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And some other documents that you have to have.

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And so, you know, we've looked at all our processes.

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And so what this is gonna do, it's not gonna change who we are.

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This will allow us to become more of who we are.

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And so it's gonna free us up from a lot of the paper and a lot of the manual things that
we're currently doing and allow us to focus more on our customer.

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And so we're we're super excited about um the opportunity to spend less time pushing paper
and

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recalculating things and spending more time focusing on how we can better serve our
customers.

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So it's pretty exciting.

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That's awesome.

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And and I guess the a good segue to the next question, talking about uh servicing your
customer through all that change, how do you preserve what made the business successful to

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begin with, keeping your customer, that customer first mindset intact while evolving how
service is delivered?

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That's a great question.

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I'm considered I'm considered a newbie at LAI Fleet, right?

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And when I say newbie, I only have six years in.

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I just hit the six year mark.

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And this year we have two employees that celebrated 50 years of employment.

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Wow.

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Like that's unheard of.

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There's there's no one, there's there's no company in our space who can say that, right?

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Um, and so our president, his name is Mark Sprague.

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Mark Sprague this year celebrates 38 years of of of of employment.

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And if you go down the offices in our in our corporate office in Houston and even some of
our account executives, we've got a number of folks who are in the twenty to twenty to

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thirty year mark.

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And so how you preserve the culture and the process and the customer service is it's a um
designing a system or replace a leg to replace a legacy system, it's a collaborative

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effort.

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Right.

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And so, you know, our the when you're going through a process like this, um

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There's a tendency for the the team to kind of want this solution to work like the old
solution.

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Um, because that's what's familiar to them.

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And and long story short, when you transition from a legacy system to a new system, the
new system is doing the same thing as the legacy system.

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It's just doing it in a much more efficient manner.

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Right.

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And so so, you know, we have our

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We have these kind of physical processes that now we've taken and we've digitalized.

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And so that's kind of how you preserve what makes LAI special, what makes us unique,
what's allows us to be in business at this point sixty-eight years.

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Um, and so that's how you do that is it's the collaboration between the team and and the
the functional department leaders, um, and then the folks on the ground actually doing the

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work.

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And so, um

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You know, we've worked very closely with all the teams and so I've been more or less like
the architect.

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Like if you think about building a home, you have homeowners, you have a a husband and
wife who are have this vision of of of what they want this house to be.

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And then the homeowners are working with an architect to design this house, right?

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And what the architect is doing is making sure that that house is gonna meet code.

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Right?

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And the code is the requ you know, in this case is is is

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meeting our bank requirements.

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It's meeting our customer needs.

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It's meeting the regulatory requirements that we have.

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It's paying vendors and collecting money from the customers and being able to execute a
securitization.

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And so so I think that's how we've we've um we've accomplished the task.

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And we've been going through training over the last like ninety days with the team.

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And and as you go through that training, it's pretty cool because you get to see where
where you hit the mark, where you hit the mark or where you were just off.

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And so

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know, it's it's been um it's been a bit pretty cool process.

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Thank you for sharing.

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So let's uh move on to our next topic.

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Um, you know, we you that kind of trans transformation doesn't always happen in a vacuum.

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It's powered by, you know, people as you you talked about uh the tenure of of of the you
know, executive president and and some of the staff there.

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Fifty years, it's amazing.

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I mean, we're we thought we were in the business for a long time.

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We're approaching thirty and you guys are

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approaching sixty years when we're gonna be hitting seventy, excuse me.

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You're approaching seventy when we're gonna be hitting we'll be hitting, you know, thirty
years in the bit in the industry in a couple of years.

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let's talk about leading change across a long tenured workforce.

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You stepped in, um, you know, you mentioned you're there six years, you feel like a baby.

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Um, so you stepped in as an external executive into a a relationship driven organization.

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How did you earn credibility uh early on?

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It was tough actually because I came in during COVID.

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Right.

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And um a little a little bit of background.

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LAI Fleet was my very first audit client when I graduated college.

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So I graduated college in two thousand three.

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and um and I went to work for a public accounting firm called Grant Thornton, which is
like the fifth largest firm in the world.

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And LAI Fleet was my very first customer, my very first audit that I did.

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And I was working on a um a private placement.

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We were one of the first uh companies to do private placements.

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And so um, you know, well over twenty years ago.

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Wow.

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And um, and so I was doing an agreed upon procedure and and then ultimately I I I worked
on the audit as well.

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And so I did the audit for almost six years.

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And so Mark Sprague, who was uh maybe the treasurer at the time.

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I I've known him my I've known my boss my whole working career.

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And so it's been pretty cool that um that, you know, I did a a good job as a, you know,
someone early in their career that it stuck out to him.

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And so we we'd maintain a relationship.

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And so um I came on in July first of twenty twenty.

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So you can remember what the world was like.

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Yeah.

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So I knew I knew most of the folks.

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um I knew a lot of the folks at corporate.

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And so it was like we had dated previously, right?

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And so, um, but a lot of the sales folks I didn't I didn't know because, you know, we you
know, we've got sales offices all, you know, eleven offices across six states.

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And so other than the sales folks that were here in Houston, I didn't have a chance to
meet them.

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And so I come into this organization where I think the average tenure of the employee when
I came in was like twenty four years.

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That's incredible.

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It is incredible.

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It's c it's changed, right?

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We we've got a lot of folks who've retired.

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Um we've got a lot of folks who've retired over the last few years.

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And so so, you know, I I get to have a hand in kind of, you know, maintaining this culture
and bringing folks in.

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And so and so uh and I had never really in my career worked with salespeople.

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So prior to coming on at LEI Fleet, um, I was in heavy in oil and gas and energy.

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And so I had to work with engineers, right?

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And engineers are very logical people, right?

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Like the numbers tell the story, right?

212
00:15:39,873 --> 00:15:43,664
Well, well, you deal with salespeople and you know, it's like touchy feely.

213
00:15:43,664 --> 00:15:50,476
And so um there was definitely some friction early on and and so um so I had to adjust,
right?

214
00:15:50,476 --> 00:15:52,516
I had to learn how to work with salespeople.

215
00:15:52,516 --> 00:15:59,058
And so um it was challenging, but you know, I I learned and so

216
00:15:59,468 --> 00:16:03,621
You know, I never work with people who's, you know, who were being paid by commission.

217
00:16:03,621 --> 00:16:06,373
And so so that's a much different thing, right?

218
00:16:06,373 --> 00:16:09,545
And so, uh, but it it it was it took some time.

219
00:16:09,545 --> 00:16:15,349
And so really how you develop your credibility is you develop credibility by executing
over time.

220
00:16:15,850 --> 00:16:19,132
And so really I had to go to work, right?

221
00:16:19,132 --> 00:16:27,958
And going to work and and helping, you know, one of the things I've I did was I built a
really strong team.

222
00:16:28,096 --> 00:16:31,048
And so I got to hire some folks that I I worked with previously.

223
00:16:31,048 --> 00:16:35,351
And then we just went to work at improving their lives.

224
00:16:35,431 --> 00:16:35,861
Right.

225
00:16:35,861 --> 00:16:40,214
And so everything that my team we had gotten our hands on, we made more efficient.

226
00:16:40,214 --> 00:16:40,895
Right.

227
00:16:40,895 --> 00:16:47,499
And so one of the best ways to earn credibility is to, you know, the number one way is to
do what you say you're gonna do when you say you're gonna do it, right?

228
00:16:47,499 --> 00:16:50,501
And two is to provide an amazing service.

229
00:16:50,501 --> 00:16:54,224
And then I would say three is I made their lives easier, right?

230
00:16:54,224 --> 00:16:58,016
not me by myself, but collectively in our our accounting and finance office.

231
00:16:58,018 --> 00:17:06,203
We we we took the processes that were were maybe not out that some were outdated, still
working but outdated.

232
00:17:06,244 --> 00:17:08,465
And we we modernized it.

233
00:17:08,465 --> 00:17:17,221
And they were you know, our account executives now are spending less time pushing paper
and spending more time out selling and then um and taking care of their customers.

234
00:17:17,221 --> 00:17:19,425
So that's that's how that's how I did it.

235
00:17:19,425 --> 00:17:23,365
I think that's a a pretty good recipe for, you know, developing those relationships.

236
00:17:23,365 --> 00:17:27,278
But there was al there's always friction too, so a hundred percent.

237
00:17:27,278 --> 00:17:27,692
Yeah.

238
00:17:27,692 --> 00:17:33,006
I mean, you get that tension between, you know, that deep institutional knowledge, right?

239
00:17:33,006 --> 00:17:40,911
And then uh, you know, you you drop a uh system conversion or a a whole new system, you
know, and the need for change, right?

240
00:17:41,852 --> 00:17:49,298
you've said before, uh I know we've you know, we've we've we've spent some time together
and and I've heard you use this uh phrase often.

241
00:17:49,298 --> 00:17:51,979
Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome.

242
00:17:51,979 --> 00:17:56,062
How have you aligned incentives and culture to support that transformation?

243
00:17:57,184 --> 00:18:04,618
So from an incentive standpoint, you know, there are some incentives for the team or the
folks who are doing the work, right?

244
00:18:05,519 --> 00:18:15,564
and you know, uh from an adoption standpoint, it's kind of like one of those things where
where you kind of like burn the bridge behind you, right?

245
00:18:15,564 --> 00:18:22,408
And so we're gonna run parallel for two months, max three, hopefully one, so it just
depends.

246
00:18:22,408 --> 00:18:27,340
Um, but but really um the the true incentive is

247
00:18:27,532 --> 00:18:30,024
I think our workforce really with the tenure.

248
00:18:30,024 --> 00:18:35,949
So like I mentioned that we've got employees who've, you know, two employees have spent
fifty years here, right?

249
00:18:35,949 --> 00:18:40,002
So they're in they're in going on their fifty-first year of employment.

250
00:18:40,002 --> 00:18:43,854
And our president, he's been here, you know, 38 go this year'll be 38 years.

251
00:18:43,854 --> 00:18:46,728
And the folks who have been here for, you know, 20 plus years.

252
00:18:46,728 --> 00:18:57,356
And so so I I think what's different about us is that I I really believe that our
workforce, our team really loves the organization.

253
00:18:57,472 --> 00:19:07,108
And so b they I think they all know that this is the best for the organization and also
the best for our customers.

254
00:19:07,108 --> 00:19:17,263
And so I think when you have a team like ours where everyone is kind of rowing in the same
direction, I think the incentive um is, you know, doing right by the customer.

255
00:19:17,263 --> 00:19:19,375
And if we take care of our customer, guess what?

256
00:19:19,375 --> 00:19:21,516
We get to take care of the employee.

257
00:19:21,636 --> 00:19:21,996
Right.

258
00:19:21,996 --> 00:19:25,558
And so I think we've done a good job of of really just

259
00:19:26,796 --> 00:19:36,111
making the case that yes, change is hard and and y you're gonna be uncomfortable for some
time.

260
00:19:36,111 --> 00:19:44,727
Um, and we as a a management team, we're gonna do our best to do the training and to hold
your hand and do these micro trainings and pod trainings.

261
00:19:44,727 --> 00:19:53,201
Like I've in the last few weeks I've been to Dallas and I've been to, you know, Boston
training our team and members there in small groups.

262
00:19:53,302 --> 00:19:54,382
And so

263
00:19:54,582 --> 00:20:01,084
I think really the incentive is our team just really wants to do what's best for the
customer and then also for our business.

264
00:20:01,084 --> 00:20:10,667
And so from an incentive standpoint, I think that really is the incentive is, you know,
we've got, you know, we've got a a lot of who I would call company people on board.

265
00:20:10,667 --> 00:20:18,419
And so, you know, they wanna we've got um, you know, like one of our accounting
executives, um, he's a you know, he's a 30-year guy.

266
00:20:18,419 --> 00:20:19,969
His son works for us.

267
00:20:20,770 --> 00:20:21,410
Right.

268
00:20:21,410 --> 00:20:22,784
And so as he

269
00:20:22,784 --> 00:20:31,260
As he starts to think about, you know, retirement, you know, um, you know, he wants to
make sure that this place is in a great, uh great position for his son.

270
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:31,900
Right.

271
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:38,205
And so, you know, when you think about that, it's a little bit different than what maybe
some other organizations are.

272
00:20:38,205 --> 00:20:40,946
So I think that's really ins the incentive.

273
00:20:41,007 --> 00:20:41,647
Thank you.

274
00:20:41,647 --> 00:20:42,348
Thank you so much.

275
00:20:42,348 --> 00:20:43,369
I appreciate that.

276
00:20:43,369 --> 00:20:46,191
Yeah, leave it leave it, leave it better than how you found it, right?

277
00:20:46,191 --> 00:20:50,123
Um and that's you know, and here's the thing is I I think that's really the legacy, right?

278
00:20:50,123 --> 00:20:51,424
So like I think

279
00:20:51,902 --> 00:20:58,705
Um, when I think about success, right, a lot of folks will um measure success.

280
00:20:58,786 --> 00:21:02,688
I think society measures success in kind of things, right?

281
00:21:02,688 --> 00:21:15,775
And so for me, I've got my job, my mission, my purpose is is to create value, is to, you
know, treat people with love and respect.

282
00:21:15,835 --> 00:21:20,760
And then the third thing is to, you know, is to leave the place in a better

283
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,110
Place than I found it.

284
00:21:22,110 --> 00:21:26,452
And so in the word success is succession, right?

285
00:21:26,452 --> 00:21:35,234
And so if you've done a job and you've done a great job at a location for 20 years or 30
years, and you leave and the place falls apart, that's not success.

286
00:21:35,394 --> 00:21:35,774
Right.

287
00:21:35,774 --> 00:21:36,274
Right.

288
00:21:36,274 --> 00:21:46,057
Now, obviously, you know, my my thought is my job is to make sure that I grow the next
group of folks and effectively train my replacement.

289
00:21:46,057 --> 00:21:46,857
Right.

290
00:21:46,857 --> 00:21:51,008
And if when I am done here, when my run at LAI Fleet is done.

291
00:21:51,082 --> 00:22:02,409
If my successor can co can step in and I can hand the baton to them and they can push the
ball forward, that's how I'm defining success.

292
00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:03,090
That's great.

293
00:22:03,090 --> 00:22:03,871
Thank you.

294
00:22:03,871 --> 00:22:15,709
I want to talk about how as many organizations, you know, are experiencing um, you know,
transformation often coincides with, you know, retirement, how have you approached

295
00:22:15,709 --> 00:22:20,682
rebuilding your bench while trying to maintain that continuity with within the
organization?

296
00:22:21,366 --> 00:22:27,370
It's something that we think about a long a a lot here, um, just because of the the the
tenure of the workforce.

297
00:22:27,370 --> 00:22:34,135
And so um we've like I said, we've got a lot of folks who are close to a retirement age.

298
00:22:34,636 --> 00:22:40,600
And so what we're doing is one, from a soft like when I think about it it's it's kind of
like two phases, right?

299
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:47,505
So you have the account executive, right, who's out selling and taking care of the
customer, and then you got the folks in the back office, right?

300
00:22:47,505 --> 00:22:49,484
And so from a back office perspective,

301
00:22:49,484 --> 00:22:56,276
perspective, it is taking that institutional knowledge, that tribal knowledge, and putting
it in the CRM.

302
00:22:56,276 --> 00:23:05,158
So we're taking the stuff, we're taking the the the procedures and the processes and the
nuance that are in our back, you know, whether it be our license entitle or maintenance

303
00:23:05,158 --> 00:23:07,039
management or remarketing.

304
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:12,040
And we're taking all of that knowledge and we coded it into our systems from a process
perspective.

305
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:12,880
Right.

306
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,191
So, so that's so that's one approach.

307
00:23:15,191 --> 00:23:18,880
And so, you know, one of my

308
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,551
I think great software, I think great tools are easy to use.

309
00:23:22,691 --> 00:23:26,012
And so one, I hate friction.

310
00:23:27,052 --> 00:23:31,794
and um I don't like paper, just personally.

311
00:23:31,794 --> 00:23:43,377
And so the way I think in systems, and so my question is like I I think that when I think
about processes and procedures, anywhere there's a lot of friction, it's not being done

312
00:23:43,377 --> 00:23:44,177
well.

313
00:23:44,738 --> 00:23:45,498
Right.

314
00:23:45,498 --> 00:23:46,478
And so

315
00:23:46,550 --> 00:23:52,313
One of my jobs is to look at our processes and look at our procedures and remove the
friction.

316
00:23:52,313 --> 00:23:55,475
And if I can remove the friction, then it'll be more efficient.

317
00:23:55,475 --> 00:24:00,618
But but I think, you know, one is taking that tribal knowledge and putting in our CRM.

318
00:24:00,618 --> 00:24:11,303
From a an outward facing customer service perspective, what we're doing is we're we're
hiring, you know, I think right now we've we've just hired account executives.

319
00:24:12,124 --> 00:24:13,985
I think we've hired three.

320
00:24:15,206 --> 00:24:15,778
We've hired

321
00:24:15,778 --> 00:24:19,861
We've hired two in the last two weeks or, you know, brought on board two in the last two
weeks.

322
00:24:19,861 --> 00:24:22,618
Um, we've hired three this year.

323
00:24:22,618 --> 00:24:31,369
Um, we've got another position open and so we're really are hiring our um and repl
replenishing our bench.

324
00:24:31,369 --> 00:24:37,463
And we what we do is we go and we embed them with this with this longtime uh account
executive who gets to show them in ropes.

325
00:24:37,463 --> 00:24:44,808
And so when I think about success, I think what makes people successful, uh, and what and
what's helped me in my career is people have helped me.

326
00:24:45,004 --> 00:24:57,399
And so I think um I think the the the biggest thing is is just um you know having the
folks who are willing to train and help the next generation and so so that's you know and

327
00:24:57,399 --> 00:24:59,660
when and we and then we incentivize it too.

328
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:00,120
Right.

329
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:06,683
And so and then also you have the incentive of wanting to leave the place in a better uh
better place than you found it.

330
00:25:06,683 --> 00:25:10,905
And and um and so I think that's a lot of it, right?

331
00:25:11,205 --> 00:25:12,326
yeah, a hundred percent.

332
00:25:12,326 --> 00:25:13,006
Thank you.

333
00:25:13,006 --> 00:25:13,836
So

334
00:25:14,008 --> 00:25:18,702
Let's shift gears, talk about the finance function as a competitive engine.

335
00:25:18,702 --> 00:25:21,904
As you know, the organization evolves, so does the role of finance.

336
00:25:21,904 --> 00:25:24,026
It's no longer just reporting the numbers.

337
00:25:24,026 --> 00:25:26,568
It's driving the business forward.

338
00:25:26,568 --> 00:25:31,292
So, you know, the modern CFO role is more broader than it ever has been.

339
00:25:31,292 --> 00:25:40,059
How do you think about that function as a strategic driver across uh credit, treasury,
remarketing, and even operations?

340
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:43,602
So the the modern CFO is

341
00:25:43,656 --> 00:25:48,630
it it's much closer to to a COO, right?

342
00:25:48,751 --> 00:25:59,820
And when I think about just all of the things that that I currently manage, I pretty much
have my hands on just about everything here in our organization.

343
00:25:59,860 --> 00:26:06,706
And so I don't I I I don't manage our sales organization our sales organizational
president does, but I manage the compensation.

344
00:26:07,347 --> 00:26:07,687
Right.

345
00:26:07,687 --> 00:26:11,448
So, you know, we're in the process of, you know, um

346
00:26:11,448 --> 00:26:16,792
We've rolled out c I'm looking at the commission plan and making sure that the commission
plan aligns with the incentives, right?

347
00:26:16,792 --> 00:26:18,603
So that's one thing that I'm doing.

348
00:26:18,793 --> 00:26:24,447
and I saw so when I think about the modern CFO, I mean really, obviously you have to
understand the numbers, right?

349
00:26:24,447 --> 00:26:31,392
So you have to understand the blocking and tackling of, you know, tax and finance in
accounting, right?

350
00:26:31,392 --> 00:26:38,017
Um, but then you also have to understand the management reporting and what are the levers
that drives the business.

351
00:26:38,017 --> 00:26:39,586
And then, oh, you know.

352
00:26:39,586 --> 00:26:43,029
We're doing these portfolio sales and securitizations and things of that nature.

353
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:53,768
And so um the role is really broad and um and then you tack on a uh a software
implementation too.

354
00:26:53,768 --> 00:26:56,951
So right, so that's kind of like that's IT as well.

355
00:26:56,951 --> 00:27:08,530
But what's pretty cool is is I I know I know our business, I know my business down to the
the selling the table.

356
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:10,510
Right.

357
00:27:10,510 --> 00:27:13,911
So I I understand our business on a molecular level.

358
00:27:13,911 --> 00:27:19,212
Um and so it's been it's been pretty cool and and really challenging.

359
00:27:19,212 --> 00:27:23,184
And so really no two days are are the same.

360
00:27:23,184 --> 00:27:28,315
And so it's really forced me to continue to grow and evolve.

361
00:27:28,315 --> 00:27:33,636
And so I'm always having to kind of level up and and and continuous learning.

362
00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:38,477
And so you know, one of the things that's helped me is

363
00:27:40,246 --> 00:27:45,039
I I you know, I bought like probably ten copies of the CLFP book and I give it away to
folks in the organization.

364
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:55,055
And so, you know, when I came into, you know, LAI Fleet, um, you know, there's all the the
terminology around equipment finance.

365
00:27:55,055 --> 00:28:00,179
And so I've used the uh CLFP book to really help kind of bridge the gap.

366
00:28:00,179 --> 00:28:04,091
And so then, you know, LAI Fleet, we're two complementary businesses.

367
00:28:04,091 --> 00:28:05,764
So we're we're uh

368
00:28:05,824 --> 00:28:08,376
a leasing company, right, which is an equipment finance firm.

369
00:28:08,376 --> 00:28:10,937
And then we're also a fleet manager as well.

370
00:28:11,058 --> 00:28:11,418
Right.

371
00:28:11,418 --> 00:28:26,548
So on top of understanding portfolio management, managing credit risk, managing cash,
managing a warehouse credit facility, uh, managing insurance risk, managing uh HR, right?

372
00:28:26,548 --> 00:28:34,546
Oh, I need to also learn and understand fleet management and understanding the total cost
of ownership for a vehicle and

373
00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:38,370
and uh telematics and fuel cards and all of those things.

374
00:28:38,370 --> 00:28:43,474
And so, you know, the road is the the the role is pretty broad.

375
00:28:43,474 --> 00:28:50,640
And um this is the most fun that I've had in of any of the roles that I've ever had in my
career.

376
00:28:51,021 --> 00:28:57,347
And um and it's forced me to learn and and grow and evolve and stretch.

377
00:28:57,347 --> 00:28:58,908
And I'm constantly being stretched.

378
00:28:58,908 --> 00:29:00,970
And so I think, you know,

379
00:29:02,446 --> 00:29:08,070
I think the modern CFO uh is akin to like a Swiss Army knife.

380
00:29:08,831 --> 00:29:12,743
And um and you don't have to be an expert.

381
00:29:12,743 --> 00:29:17,547
You can't be an expert in everything, but you have to be an expert in a few things, three
or four or five.

382
00:29:17,547 --> 00:29:21,079
You obviously have to be an expert in the accounting, finance, and tax.

383
00:29:21,419 --> 00:29:30,356
And and then, you know, you need to, you know, the modern CFO has developed working
knowledge and kind of all the other aspects of the business.

384
00:29:30,356 --> 00:29:31,170
But it's

385
00:29:31,170 --> 00:29:33,371
It's fairly broad, it's really complex.

386
00:29:34,233 --> 00:29:36,374
and you know, it keeps me on my toes.

387
00:29:36,374 --> 00:29:37,726
And so I'm I'm never bored.

388
00:29:37,726 --> 00:29:39,857
And so it's a it's been it's been pretty cool.

389
00:29:39,857 --> 00:29:46,683
I mean I'm definitely enjoying I'm definitely enjoying the work and I almost never have a
I don't have bad days.

390
00:29:46,683 --> 00:29:50,086
Like every day I come in it's some some problem to solve.

391
00:29:50,086 --> 00:29:59,962
And so Well, um yeah, I mean, I could tell every time I see you, you're always smiling,
um, always just thrilled about life.

392
00:29:59,962 --> 00:30:02,503
um full of life and energy and it's infectious.

393
00:30:02,503 --> 00:30:03,204
It really is.

394
00:30:03,204 --> 00:30:15,670
Um from your perspective, how does financial discipline and integrity shape both portfolio
quality and the culture of of the organization?

395
00:30:15,891 --> 00:30:29,118
When you think about the discipline, I I I think that's I think the discipline um and our
discipline at LAI Fleet is what's allowed us to

396
00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:33,691
Stay in business for 68 years, right?

397
00:30:33,811 --> 00:30:41,313
And without like that financial discipline, um given all the uncertainty in the
marketplace, right?

398
00:30:41,313 --> 00:30:47,255
Like you think about I came in in in the middle of COVID, right?

399
00:30:47,255 --> 00:30:55,737
And so, you know, there's that saying, um, smooth seas never made for a good sailor,
right?

400
00:30:55,737 --> 00:30:59,938
And so, you know, when I think about my six years as CFO here.

401
00:30:59,948 --> 00:31:02,209
You had COVID, right?

402
00:31:02,209 --> 00:31:04,980
You had all the supply chain disruptions.

403
00:31:04,980 --> 00:31:07,791
We're a vehicle we're in the vehicle business.

404
00:31:07,791 --> 00:31:10,482
So then you had the the vehicle shortages, right?

405
00:31:10,482 --> 00:31:19,626
Um, and then you had kind of like the the increase in price, you know, vehicles going up
in price over thirty percent in a in a year.

406
00:31:19,626 --> 00:31:22,378
And then you had the interest rates going crazy, right?

407
00:31:22,378 --> 00:31:23,688
And tariffs.

408
00:31:23,688 --> 00:31:25,829
Yeah, you have tariffs, right?

409
00:31:25,829 --> 00:31:28,640
And now you have uh a war.

410
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:28,940
Right.

411
00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:30,021
You have an actual war.

412
00:31:30,021 --> 00:31:35,415
You have a a a trade you have m trade wars on multiple fronts, right?

413
00:31:35,415 --> 00:31:48,383
And so when you think about the volatility in business, I think having financial
discipline and um managing your credit risk um and and maybe not trying to grow too

414
00:31:48,383 --> 00:31:52,746
quickly is really ideal.

415
00:31:52,746 --> 00:31:58,580
And you know, at some point, you know, you're gonna have those write-offs, right?

416
00:31:58,638 --> 00:32:03,061
Um and the goal is to, you know, just sustain the game, right?

417
00:32:03,061 --> 00:32:04,671
And so not to sink the battleship.

418
00:32:04,671 --> 00:32:09,584
And so I think for us, uh, you know, slow and steady uh wins the race.

419
00:32:09,584 --> 00:32:18,369
And so um and then also just having the you know, the discipline around your mission and
what you do and understanding what you're good at, right?

420
00:32:18,369 --> 00:32:26,394
Like when you think about servicing vehicles, if you can service vehicles, you can service
any other asset.

421
00:32:26,894 --> 00:32:30,397
Um, and in addition to being a fleet manager, we're also a servicer as well.

422
00:32:30,397 --> 00:32:32,739
We service our own portfolio.

423
00:32:33,050 --> 00:32:36,723
and we are, you know, managing license title registration.

424
00:32:36,723 --> 00:32:39,586
We're paying sales tax, we're paying property taxes.

425
00:32:39,586 --> 00:32:47,992
We're doing all that for, you know, tens of, you know, plus 10,000 vehicles uh in, you
know, just about every state in the country.

426
00:32:48,013 --> 00:32:54,028
And so you have to have discipline um to kind of stay focused on what your task is.

427
00:32:54,206 --> 00:33:00,088
And to, you know, from a financial perspective, not to get your skis, not not to get ahead
of your skis, you know.

428
00:33:00,088 --> 00:33:03,949
Um and so you want to grow and you think about the equipment finance space, right?

429
00:33:03,949 --> 00:33:08,290
Like if you grow too fast, uh, your leverage ratios will get out of whack.

430
00:33:08,290 --> 00:33:08,720
Right.

431
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,741
And so uh it's something that I've learned.

432
00:33:12,741 --> 00:33:20,133
Um, you know, I tend to want to move fast, right?

433
00:33:20,193 --> 00:33:22,764
And coming in an organization where

434
00:33:22,914 --> 00:33:26,015
you know, we have the tenure that we have.

435
00:33:26,015 --> 00:33:34,178
Um, I've had to kind of learn to adjust and so I I've done that over the over the last six
years and still doing that.

436
00:33:34,179 --> 00:33:45,183
But that I think the discipline really allows you there's a book um by James Clear called
uh called Atomic Habits.

437
00:33:45,183 --> 00:33:49,085
It's a book that I've probably bought ten copies of his book and given away.

438
00:33:49,225 --> 00:33:52,214
And um and what he says is um

439
00:33:52,280 --> 00:34:02,793
There's a he's got a lot of kind of great quotes that I I live by, but it says you don't
you don't we don't rise to the level of our goals, we fall to our level of our systems.

440
00:34:03,173 --> 00:34:04,093
Right.

441
00:34:04,354 --> 00:34:13,216
And your system is is really the the internal the it's the organizational discipline that
l allows you to kind of stay in the game.

442
00:34:13,216 --> 00:34:19,488
And so that's one thing that I try I preach to the organization and one thing I practice
in my personal life and so

443
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,736
You know, being in the military helps you be fairly disciplined as well and so it it it I
think

444
00:34:27,565 --> 00:34:33,598
I think discipline is a personal quality and and it's an inside out job.

445
00:34:33,598 --> 00:34:42,353
And so I I think, you know, it's something that comes from the individual that you project
into and onto an organization.

446
00:34:42,794 --> 00:34:43,374
Agreed.

447
00:34:43,374 --> 00:34:44,295
Agreed.

448
00:34:44,295 --> 00:34:47,326
So we will transition, we'll go to the next topic.

449
00:34:47,326 --> 00:34:52,009
We'll talk about competing as an independent in an era of consolidation.

450
00:34:52,009 --> 00:34:57,482
You talked you brought up a lot of the the the the rapidly

451
00:34:57,630 --> 00:35:00,652
You brought up the landscape and how it's rapidly changing in the industry.

452
00:35:00,652 --> 00:35:12,098
Um, you know, as a privately held organization, how does LAI differentiate against larger
uh efficiency driven competitors?

453
00:35:12,258 --> 00:35:14,759
If if there isn't if there even is one?

454
00:35:14,919 --> 00:35:20,642
I mean, obviously, I mean, there's when you think about vehicle leasing and fleet
management, you know, you've got obviously the the elements.

455
00:35:20,642 --> 00:35:26,846
We don't really see them 'cause they're managing, you know, vehicles with, you know, ten
thousand vehicles, three thousand vehicles.

456
00:35:26,846 --> 00:35:27,596
So

457
00:35:27,636 --> 00:35:30,989
But our focus is the is the is the small and mid-sized businesses.

458
00:35:30,989 --> 00:35:35,152
So anywhere from, you know, two hundred with twenty vehicles to two hundred and fifty
vehicles.

459
00:35:35,152 --> 00:35:38,105
Um, you know, that's kind of like our sweet spot.

460
00:35:38,105 --> 00:35:44,480
And we've got some customers that are, you know, that are in the seven, eight hundred
vehicles and we're able to manage those fairly effectively.

461
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:52,106
But but I think what makes us different and what makes us you unique in the marketplace is
that we focus on an underserved market, right?

462
00:35:52,106 --> 00:35:57,300
And so what we're able to do with our systems is to provide, you know.

463
00:35:57,606 --> 00:36:02,929
um corporate level fleet management services to small and mid-sized businesses.

464
00:36:02,929 --> 00:36:11,874
And so when you think about managing a fleet of vehicles, managing a fleet of vehicles,
especially if you're multi-state, it's a freaking headache.

465
00:36:11,954 --> 00:36:12,294
Right.

466
00:36:12,294 --> 00:36:17,437
And so what I like to say is is less hassle, lower costs, more profit.

467
00:36:17,437 --> 00:36:24,301
And so our our objective and what we do for our customers is, is we, we, we, we manage
their fleet.

468
00:36:24,301 --> 00:36:26,264
We take care of their fleet so they can

469
00:36:26,264 --> 00:36:27,365
focus on their business.

470
00:36:27,365 --> 00:36:32,397
And so I think what makes us different is um our model.

471
00:36:32,397 --> 00:36:32,798
Right.

472
00:36:32,798 --> 00:36:37,600
So we don't have the kind of hunter farmer model.

473
00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:45,614
Our account executive, when when we bring on a new customer, that account executive, um,
they're the they're also the fleet manager.

474
00:36:45,614 --> 00:36:48,786
So it's not like we bring someone in and then hand you off to someone else.

475
00:36:48,986 --> 00:36:49,687
Right.

476
00:36:49,687 --> 00:36:51,598
So that's one thing that makes us different.

477
00:36:51,598 --> 00:36:55,750
I think our personal service makes our makes us different.

478
00:36:56,448 --> 00:37:01,301
Our president gets on calls and he's going to sales meeting with our account executives.

479
00:37:01,301 --> 00:37:10,526
I get to go and uh go and meet with our customers and hear what they have to say and
understand uh what their challenges are and how, you know, you know, how we can improve

480
00:37:10,526 --> 00:37:11,777
and help them meet their needs.

481
00:37:11,777 --> 00:37:16,069
And so our I I think our market is really underserved.

482
00:37:17,870 --> 00:37:22,102
and I think what really makes us different is is the, you know, the personal service.

483
00:37:22,102 --> 00:37:25,494
And so, um, our customers are are

484
00:37:25,494 --> 00:37:26,804
are not just the customer.

485
00:37:26,804 --> 00:37:29,345
I mean, they're the they're our sole reason for existence.

486
00:37:29,345 --> 00:37:41,358
And so, you know, whether I me as the CFO needs to get on with a a controller or CFO of
another company, um, I'm willing to do that.

487
00:37:41,358 --> 00:37:44,439
And so I've even I'll I'll fly to Jersey.

488
00:37:44,439 --> 00:37:47,580
I mean our president fly to to different states to meet with customers.

489
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:55,274
And so I think that's I think that's I think that's um I think that's what really makes us
different.

490
00:37:55,274 --> 00:37:56,565
And unique in the marketplace.

491
00:37:56,565 --> 00:38:01,830
And and it is a really competitive landscape and it is hard to to to win fleets.

492
00:38:01,830 --> 00:38:08,805
And so when you think about our business, the sales leads the sales cycle can be, you
know, 18 or 24 months.

493
00:38:08,805 --> 00:38:13,649
Um, but when we land a customer and we keep them, we generally don't lose customers.

494
00:38:13,870 --> 00:38:16,402
if we lose a customer, they may have got acquired by private equity.

495
00:38:16,402 --> 00:38:22,937
Um, but we have customers that we've had, they started with one vehicle and now they're
over 300 vehicles.

496
00:38:24,184 --> 00:38:26,836
We have customers that we've had for over thirty years.

497
00:38:26,836 --> 00:38:32,349
Um and I just had a call, well, I was talking to our president yesterday.

498
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,162
and we're now working with the third generation of a business.

499
00:38:37,403 --> 00:38:39,044
That's that's unheard of.

500
00:38:39,524 --> 00:38:40,665
Yeah, it is.

501
00:38:40,665 --> 00:38:50,291
And so uh, you know, um, you know, when we, you know, when we when we say, you know, it's
when someone call when someone calls us, an expert is gonna pick up the phone.

502
00:38:51,513 --> 00:38:53,484
So and we pick up the phone, right?

503
00:38:53,484 --> 00:38:54,016
Like

504
00:38:54,016 --> 00:39:02,932
Our accounting you know, our customers, if they need a a replacement unit, maybe a
vehicle's in an accident, they send a text and that vehicle will show up in, you know, a

505
00:39:02,932 --> 00:39:04,603
few days if we're getting it out of stock.

506
00:39:04,603 --> 00:39:10,677
And so, you know, we we're able to move fairly quickly.

507
00:39:11,038 --> 00:39:19,564
And our credit box is um it's effective, but we're able to, you know, meet the needs of
the customers.

508
00:39:19,564 --> 00:39:23,222
And so I think that's what that's the thing that makes that stands out to

509
00:39:23,222 --> 00:39:25,733
To me about LEI fleet and how we service the customer.

510
00:39:25,733 --> 00:39:27,284
So thank you.

511
00:39:27,284 --> 00:39:28,985
Thank you for sharing that.

512
00:39:29,125 --> 00:39:34,949
Finally, fleet leasing and remarketing uh is a unique asset class.

513
00:39:34,949 --> 00:39:42,653
How do you think about managing residual risk and scale within a large vehicle portfolio?

514
00:39:43,894 --> 00:39:52,318
So uh I I think what's interesting about the the vehicle is the vehicle is very liquid,
right?

515
00:39:52,396 --> 00:40:05,402
You have MMR, um, our portfolio is predominantly medium medium light duty trucks and vans,
F-150s, F-250s, 350s, um, you know, and some of those vehicles are heavily upfitted and

516
00:40:05,402 --> 00:40:06,292
things of that nature.

517
00:40:06,292 --> 00:40:11,604
Um, and so I think it in managing the risk.

518
00:40:13,164 --> 00:40:20,581
Because the vehicle is so liquid, um, we can pick up a vehicle and get it to auction and
we kind of know what the price is.

519
00:40:20,581 --> 00:40:25,675
And so we tend to be somewhat conservative.

520
00:40:25,675 --> 00:40:31,510
And so one of the things that we do is at the end of a lease, um

521
00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:38,398
We want our customers so generally speaking, at the end of the lease, the customer's
getting a replacement.

522
00:40:38,398 --> 00:40:40,179
They're replacing that vehicle.

523
00:40:40,179 --> 00:40:45,102
And so a lot of our leases tend to be open in leases, open in track leases, right?

524
00:40:45,102 --> 00:40:50,325
And so with that track that track lease, the customer bears the residual risk.

525
00:40:50,486 --> 00:40:58,161
And so we don't want our customer to be in a situation where they're upside down uh on
that vehicle or having to cut a check at the end.

526
00:40:58,161 --> 00:41:02,050
And so sometimes what we're doing is we're we're we're

527
00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:05,021
balancing kind of where that payment is gonna be for the customer.

528
00:41:05,021 --> 00:41:17,106
So when they turn in that vehicle to get a replacement, they're in it either they're
breaking even or or uh or then in an equity position where they're able to get some cash

529
00:41:17,106 --> 00:41:27,300
from that vehicle and either we can either give them a a a rent credit on their next
invoice or they're able to take that cash and and do a a cap cost reduction on the next

530
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:27,740
vehicle.

531
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:31,682
And so, you know, we're we're using Mannheim and we're using Blackbook.

532
00:41:31,682 --> 00:41:37,127
to to um understand the market and where the market is uh for those for the vehicles.

533
00:41:37,127 --> 00:41:44,193
And so, you know, um going through COVID, that was kind of a crazy time.

534
00:41:44,193 --> 00:41:50,157
And so, but what manufacturers have done, they're just not producing as many vehicles
these days.

535
00:41:50,558 --> 00:42:00,096
And so and a lot it seems like they're focusing a little bit less on fleets and focusing
more on the consumer.

536
00:42:00,346 --> 00:42:10,224
And when you think about a fleet vehicle versus a consumer vehicle, a consumer vehicle,
they're selling the, you know, that vehicle's going for a lot more, whereas a fleet

537
00:42:10,224 --> 00:42:13,987
vehicle doesn't have all the bells and whistles that a consumer vehicle will have.

538
00:42:13,987 --> 00:42:25,177
And so, um, you know, we're we're definitely in a in a position of rising prices, um, you
know, with with inflation and the cost of chips and and everything.

539
00:42:25,177 --> 00:42:29,550
And so, you know, um it's been

540
00:42:30,070 --> 00:42:39,087
a challenge, but I think we do a great job of just kind of looking at data and having our
pulse offering on the on the market and MMR, which allows us to kind of manage that risk

541
00:42:39,087 --> 00:42:41,118
for both us and our customers.

542
00:42:41,478 --> 00:42:42,019
Thank you.

543
00:42:42,019 --> 00:42:42,959
Great.

544
00:42:43,220 --> 00:42:52,266
But before we uh before we wrap up, is um is there anything that um I didn't ask that
you'd like to share with share with our audience?

545
00:42:52,396 --> 00:43:01,473
No, I'm just you know, I'm just thankful for the for the time and um I I really love LA I
fleet and and any time I get a chance to talk about our business or what I've what we're

546
00:43:01,473 --> 00:43:05,096
what we're doing and and how we're growing, I'm I'm excited to do it.

547
00:43:05,096 --> 00:43:21,310
And so you know, I think I think our organization is special and um I think our future is
is really bright and um, you know, um I'm always uh looking to kind of collaborate and and

548
00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:21,878
um

549
00:43:21,878 --> 00:43:24,380
And help folks, you know, with their fleets and things of that nature.

550
00:43:24,380 --> 00:43:27,132
And so, you know, so n nothing in particular.

551
00:43:27,132 --> 00:43:38,562
Just just, you know, thankful to kinda have the have the time and, you know, um, you know,
in in having the conversation, I'm just being reminded of all the things I've accomplished

552
00:43:38,562 --> 00:43:40,704
over the lax last uh six years.

553
00:43:40,704 --> 00:43:44,917
Cause you know, you get busy doing the work and you got your head down and sometimes you
kind of forget.

554
00:43:44,917 --> 00:43:51,212
Um, but um, you know, there's a there's a saying the things we work on, they work on us,
and so

555
00:43:51,330 --> 00:44:04,760
the opportunity for me to come and work at uh LAI Fleet and become the CFO and and, you
know, design a CRM system and go through the implementation process and and work on um and

556
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:14,056
work on all the things that I've got to work on, whether it be the portfolio sales or
bringing on new banks or renegotiating warehouse credit facilities or working on insurance

557
00:44:14,056 --> 00:44:16,459
or buying insurance for our our employees.

558
00:44:16,459 --> 00:44:20,010
It's been it's been it's been it's been pretty cool now.

559
00:44:20,022 --> 00:44:22,203
I'm I'm I'm I'm really fortunate.

560
00:44:22,424 --> 00:44:23,165
That's awesome.

561
00:44:23,165 --> 00:44:23,965
Yeah, you can tell.

562
00:44:23,965 --> 00:44:27,369
You can tell and just how how you carry yourself and how you speak.

563
00:44:27,369 --> 00:44:31,062
Um and I agree, you can't always focus on the horizon.

564
00:44:31,062 --> 00:44:32,563
You gotta look back every once in a while.

565
00:44:32,563 --> 00:44:36,807
Otherwise you're never gonna see what kind of change you've made, right?

566
00:44:36,807 --> 00:44:39,420
If you're just focused on on the horizon.

567
00:44:39,420 --> 00:44:44,164
So um well let's let's have some fun.

568
00:44:44,164 --> 00:44:46,626
Um with a topic that's

569
00:44:47,422 --> 00:44:49,923
recently sparks sparking a debate.

570
00:44:49,923 --> 00:45:02,236
Um I know you and I have when we've when we've seen each other um we've we've we've had
had a some debates about this and um we've been you know you and I have some friends that

571
00:45:02,236 --> 00:45:07,487
we mutual friends and we've been teasing them about, you know, this this topic.

572
00:45:07,487 --> 00:45:13,549
So um I couldn't let you leave without tackling, you know, this mo great modern debate.

573
00:45:13,549 --> 00:45:17,300
Um who's the greatest player in NBA history?

574
00:45:18,048 --> 00:45:19,539
Jordan debatable.

575
00:45:19,659 --> 00:45:20,949
Jordan or LeBron.

576
00:45:20,949 --> 00:45:28,465
You may not take I don't think there's a debate, but um but uh I mean I'm gonna go on the
record.

577
00:45:28,465 --> 00:45:29,545
I'm taking MJ.

578
00:45:29,545 --> 00:45:38,938
Um, you know, I'll throw some things out there and then then give you some time to to to
to to present your your position.

579
00:45:38,938 --> 00:45:43,978
I you know, when I look at greatness, I I look at more than just totals and longevity.

580
00:45:43,978 --> 00:45:44,996
Um

581
00:45:45,002 --> 00:45:48,004
MJ's resumes, almost impossible to top.

582
00:45:48,004 --> 00:45:56,791
Six championships, six f finals MVPs, five league MVPs, ten scoring titles, defensive
player of the year, nine alt defensive first team.

583
00:45:56,791 --> 00:46:00,234
Um, never lost an NBA championship.

584
00:46:00,234 --> 00:46:01,474
He won six for six.

585
00:46:01,474 --> 00:46:05,598
Um, and he built it all with one dynasty, one franchise.

586
00:46:05,598 --> 00:46:09,200
So for me, that's that's greatness.

587
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,820
So I'll I'll turn it over to you and and I I

588
00:46:11,820 --> 00:46:13,291
you I unless you agree with me.

589
00:46:13,291 --> 00:46:18,915
I mean, I I would argue that LeBron James's resume is pretty impeccable as well, right?

590
00:46:18,915 --> 00:46:22,928
I mean, obviously his tenure uh is is been pretty amazing.

591
00:46:22,928 --> 00:46:29,022
Uh he was the first to forty thousand points, first to ten thousand rerouts, first to ten
K assist.

592
00:46:29,022 --> 00:46:34,246
Um he was the first to win a finals MVP with with with three teams.

593
00:46:34,356 --> 00:46:36,898
he was the first to come back from three one.

594
00:46:36,898 --> 00:46:39,830
Um the first to make twenty

595
00:46:40,030 --> 00:46:41,591
uh all time NBA teams.

596
00:46:41,591 --> 00:46:58,063
I mean, you know, um when you know, listen, I I think what benefits Michael Jordan is is
Jordan is the first like mega, world mega superstar, right?

597
00:46:58,063 --> 00:47:01,325
And I think that, you know, what he did was so phenomenal.

598
00:47:01,325 --> 00:47:06,109
Like I I would never kind of um say anything negative about Michael Jordan's legacy.

599
00:47:06,109 --> 00:47:07,019
He's he's pretty amazing.

600
00:47:07,019 --> 00:47:08,898
I grew up watching Jordan.

601
00:47:08,898 --> 00:47:19,241
But I I think what happens is is when the first one was so good, the second the person to
follow could be good just as good or even better.

602
00:47:19,401 --> 00:47:22,402
But our brains are so fixated on the first.

603
00:47:22,402 --> 00:47:27,983
It's like, okay, who's this who's the second person to go to the moon?

604
00:47:28,003 --> 00:47:28,443
Right?

605
00:47:28,443 --> 00:47:36,846
Who's you know, who's the f you know, everyone remembers who the first person was to break
the four minute mile, but the there are other people who did that four minute mile and did

606
00:47:36,846 --> 00:47:38,964
it in less, right?

607
00:47:38,964 --> 00:47:43,295
And so, or the first person, you know, the Wright brothers were the first to fly, right?

608
00:47:43,295 --> 00:47:51,318
Um, and so I I think that he benefits from um from being the first, right?

609
00:47:51,318 --> 00:47:57,959
And so sure and then and then I think it's I'll also I'll say one other thing, and I think
it's a a generational thing.

610
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:05,822
So you've got you've got a whole generation of of kids or younger people who didn't grow
up why Michael Jordan.

611
00:48:05,822 --> 00:48:07,732
They've never seen him lose a game.

612
00:48:08,046 --> 00:48:14,469
Like you have you have people who know who Michael Jordan is and never actually watched a
full Michael Jordan basketball game.

613
00:48:14,469 --> 00:48:17,000
They only know him from the highlights, right?

614
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:17,390
Sure.

615
00:48:17,390 --> 00:48:17,700
Right.

616
00:48:17,700 --> 00:48:27,134
And so and so like if you were to ask my son, um, who who was a college basketball player,
he would say LeBron James is the GOAT.

617
00:48:28,054 --> 00:48:31,426
Or Kobe, he might say, you know, he might say Kobe was his favorite.

618
00:48:31,426 --> 00:48:35,918
And so I think, you know, I think you have the the the generational gap, right?

619
00:48:35,918 --> 00:48:37,378
Um

620
00:48:37,474 --> 00:48:43,458
You know, uh if you were to ask some older, you know, some more seasoned folks, they would
say, Bill Russell's the best.

621
00:48:43,518 --> 00:48:44,239
Perhaps.

622
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:45,099
T you know, perhaps.

623
00:48:45,099 --> 00:48:46,000
I mean he's yeah.

624
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,612
So he's got what, eleven eleven NBA championships, right?

625
00:48:49,612 --> 00:48:50,743
I think, or ten or eleven.

626
00:48:50,743 --> 00:48:52,444
Uh ten ten or right.

627
00:48:52,444 --> 00:48:55,486
So that that I mean, he he he doubled Michael Jordan.

628
00:48:55,486 --> 00:48:56,047
Right.

629
00:48:56,047 --> 00:48:56,427
Yeah.

630
00:48:56,427 --> 00:48:58,809
Um true.

631
00:48:58,809 --> 00:49:07,074
I guess if that was my you know, if that was my only argument, if I was saying I'm basing
his greatness on just his six NBA championships.

632
00:49:07,074 --> 00:49:10,736
Then you would counter by saying, well, does that then that means Bill Russell's the
greatest, right?

633
00:49:10,736 --> 00:49:16,060
Um, I think look at the league today or look at it when LeBron entered.

634
00:49:16,060 --> 00:49:18,741
And obviously Jordan didn't enter the league at eighteen or nineteen.

635
00:49:18,741 --> 00:49:21,668
Jordan entered as a, you know, out of his junior year of college.

636
00:49:21,668 --> 00:49:27,407
They didn't allow eighteen year olds who were didn't even attend college to to enter the
NBA draft.

637
00:49:27,407 --> 00:49:30,559
Perhaps Jordan would have entered after his freshman year of college, right?

638
00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:33,130
So Jordan lost two or three years there.

639
00:49:33,250 --> 00:49:35,621
um that he didn't get that LeBron had.

640
00:49:35,621 --> 00:49:36,951
Did he did he lose?

641
00:49:36,951 --> 00:49:38,011
Did he lose?

642
00:49:38,011 --> 00:49:41,712
Well I'm talking about as far as the NBA NBA stats are concerned.

643
00:49:41,712 --> 00:49:45,894
He didn't he didn't have those extra years to to generate those NBA stats.

644
00:49:45,894 --> 00:49:52,496
um But if you look at when when LeBron entered the league, it was it was, I mean, great,
right?

645
00:49:52,496 --> 00:49:54,076
I mean the league was prospering.

646
00:49:54,076 --> 00:49:57,277
When Jordan entered the league, that the NBA finals were on tape delay.

647
00:49:57,277 --> 00:49:59,097
Like nobody watched him.

648
00:49:59,397 --> 00:49:59,838
Right?

649
00:49:59,838 --> 00:50:01,510
I mean, so

650
00:50:01,816 --> 00:50:06,127
Just look at what Jordan did to the league and what he how he revolutionized the game.

651
00:50:06,127 --> 00:50:13,649
LeBron came into a league that, you know, and and I think if you for me, if we we can we
can agree to disagree, talk about longevity.

652
00:50:13,649 --> 00:50:21,501
So Pete Rose, who has leads, who has the all time hit leader in baseball, is he the
greatest baseball player of all time just because he has the most hits?

653
00:50:21,501 --> 00:50:26,663
Is Emmett Smith the greatest football player of all time just because he has the most
rushing yards?

654
00:50:26,663 --> 00:50:32,074
I mean, those guys have those stats because they played for 20 years or more, right?

655
00:50:32,234 --> 00:50:34,226
Um you know, longevity matters.

656
00:50:34,226 --> 00:50:38,679
I mean, I guess Jordan could have hung on for three or four more years, just like LeBron's
doing.

657
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,731
But he didn't want to chase titles, right?

658
00:50:40,731 --> 00:50:43,163
Um, he played for what?

659
00:50:43,404 --> 00:50:48,548
Well, one, he he did close out the Rockets uh this year, this past season, right?

660
00:50:48,548 --> 00:50:50,489
Without without Luca, right?

661
00:50:50,489 --> 00:50:52,491
And without Austin Reeves, right?

662
00:50:52,491 --> 00:50:59,327
So, so no Luca, no, no Luca, no Austin Reeves, and LeBron closed out the Rockets in the
playoffs, right?

663
00:50:59,327 --> 00:50:59,797
Yeah.

664
00:50:59,797 --> 00:51:01,448
Like like think think about that.

665
00:51:01,484 --> 00:51:12,562
Now, obviously the Rockets did not have KD, but but you have someone plus 40 closing out a
team by himself in the playoffs.

666
00:51:12,562 --> 00:51:28,054
Like, it's just, I mean, I I think what I find is that obviously when you think about the
longevity, what's so amazing is that I think that there hasn't been that drop-off, right?

667
00:51:28,054 --> 00:51:28,734
And he's

668
00:51:28,734 --> 00:51:35,238
And he's been able what's so amazing is the way he's been able to change his game to still
be effective, right?

669
00:51:35,238 --> 00:51:38,619
So he's become a better shooter, right?

670
00:51:38,619 --> 00:51:43,722
He could lead the league and assist every year if he wanted to, right?

671
00:51:43,962 --> 00:51:51,456
And I I I think like to be able to go on a team, not be the superstar.

672
00:51:53,026 --> 00:51:56,608
Take a backseat and still the average twenty points?

673
00:51:59,666 --> 00:52:03,487
That I mean like who like like at that at that age.

674
00:52:03,487 --> 00:52:06,588
And I and unless we're saying, hey, the league is just an easier league.

675
00:52:06,588 --> 00:52:08,829
It's a a less physical league potential.

676
00:52:08,829 --> 00:52:12,230
So I'm still my thunder, but I was gonna that's that was gonna be my next point.

677
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:15,711
It's not as physical as a league it was back when Jordan was at his peak.

678
00:52:15,711 --> 00:52:27,242
I I think if you look back at the two different uh you know, the NBA, how it's evolved, I
mean players weren't taking four steps without dribbling to to take a layup.

679
00:52:27,242 --> 00:52:29,444
It's it wasn't a three point league basketball.

680
00:52:29,444 --> 00:52:31,546
You sound like an old.

681
00:52:31,546 --> 00:52:32,127
Well, come on.

682
00:52:32,127 --> 00:52:34,049
It you like LeBron's the king.

683
00:52:34,049 --> 00:52:40,335
LeBron LeBron should be wearing a soccer jersey for most of his most of his career because
he flops a lot.

684
00:52:40,335 --> 00:52:42,156
I mean, you didn't you didn't see Jordan do that.

685
00:52:42,156 --> 00:52:44,999
Uh here I'll I'll say this.

686
00:52:44,999 --> 00:52:47,732
Um, like just no disrespect, right?

687
00:52:47,732 --> 00:52:51,766
And I think it's a great I mean, I I think it's a great argument, right?

688
00:52:51,766 --> 00:52:52,322
Um

689
00:52:52,322 --> 00:52:55,644
I think both are are are I think both are amazing players.

690
00:52:55,644 --> 00:52:56,525
A hundred percent.

691
00:52:56,525 --> 00:52:57,225
I agree.

692
00:52:57,225 --> 00:53:00,208
I mean, I enjoyed like I I stood in line for Jordan's, right?

693
00:53:00,208 --> 00:53:04,010
Like I I remember like Mike, right?

694
00:53:04,791 --> 00:53:19,781
and so but but but when LeBron came in the league, before he came in league, as as a
16-year-old, he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated and he was named the chosen one.

695
00:53:20,182 --> 00:53:20,982
And

696
00:53:21,868 --> 00:53:30,742
There hasn't been an athlete that has been scrutinized more in the history of all sports
as LeBron James.

697
00:53:30,983 --> 00:53:45,511
And to come in to to get the crown as the chosen one at a 16 year old as a 16 year old,
and to come in the league as an 18 year old and to score, you know, 23 points your first

698
00:53:45,511 --> 00:53:51,894
game out as a twenty-three year old, he's he's exceeded.

699
00:53:52,438 --> 00:53:55,960
All the expectations that have been placed upon him.

700
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,418
does he have as many rings as Jordan?

701
00:53:57,418 --> 00:53:58,982
No, he doesn't have as many rings.

702
00:53:58,982 --> 00:54:01,043
Has he been has he lost in the finals?

703
00:54:01,043 --> 00:54:02,484
He has lost in the finals.

704
00:54:02,484 --> 00:54:04,105
But I don't think six times, huh?

705
00:54:04,105 --> 00:54:05,605
Six times he lost in the finals.

706
00:54:05,605 --> 00:54:10,088
But but I don't know that I I would argue that the Warriors team is an all time great
team.

707
00:54:11,449 --> 00:54:18,693
I would argue, I would argue that I would argue the Warriors team is an all time great
team.

708
00:54:18,693 --> 00:54:21,034
They're not like some regular Joe's, right?

709
00:54:21,034 --> 00:54:21,644
Like,

710
00:54:21,644 --> 00:54:30,797
Like that Steph Curry and and and Clay Thompson and Angway uh Andre Iguadala, like they're
an all they w they went seventy two and ten.

711
00:54:31,857 --> 00:54:39,750
Yeah, I mean I I think all around that's probably one of the one of the greatest I you
know, Jordan's team a year they went what seventy They went seventy two and ten.

712
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:41,180
They seven it's seventy two and ten.

713
00:54:41,180 --> 00:54:42,961
So the so think about this.

714
00:54:42,961 --> 00:54:46,461
The Warriors went seventy two and ten, right?

715
00:54:46,762 --> 00:54:48,032
And lost

716
00:54:49,582 --> 00:54:50,202
To the Cavs.

717
00:54:50,202 --> 00:54:52,383
I mean, yeah, to the Cavs, right?

718
00:54:52,383 --> 00:55:01,007
The Cavs came back 3 1 against the 72 and 10 Warriors and lost to LeBron James.

719
00:55:01,007 --> 00:55:02,787
That's that's never been done.

720
00:55:02,787 --> 00:55:06,939
No, and and and again, I I I think his career is impressive.

721
00:55:06,939 --> 00:55:08,270
I've never said it's not.

722
00:55:08,270 --> 00:55:14,242
Like, you know, and yeah, that was a remarkable feat, um, doing something that's never
been done before.

723
00:55:14,242 --> 00:55:19,444
Um, I to go back, um, just to go back a little bit.

724
00:55:20,146 --> 00:55:25,430
Some of the pressures and and some of the hype around LeBron, he kinda put some of that
stuff onto himself.

725
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:35,357
I mean to go on national TV and do what he did to those fans in Cleveland, that, you know,
you don't see somebody like Jordan doing something like that.

726
00:55:35,357 --> 00:55:37,628
You know, I'm gonna take my talents to Miami.

727
00:55:37,628 --> 00:55:39,260
All he did to mine.

728
00:55:39,260 --> 00:55:42,522
I'm gonna take my talents to Miami.

729
00:55:42,522 --> 00:55:43,743
That's all he did.

730
00:55:43,743 --> 00:55:44,153
Yeah.

731
00:55:44,153 --> 00:55:47,115
Well, let's here's here's something else you gotta look at.

732
00:55:47,115 --> 00:55:48,806
And I think maybe this is

733
00:55:49,090 --> 00:55:56,713
Probably one of the because obviously they both won what five, six NBA championships,
MVPs, All Stars.

734
00:55:57,374 --> 00:56:05,917
LeBron's had ten NBA Hall of Famers on his teams.

735
00:56:06,197 --> 00:56:10,759
So when Jordan won his first repeat, he had one Hall of Famer, and that was Scottie
Pippen.

736
00:56:10,759 --> 00:56:17,242
And when he won his second three peat, he had obviously Pippen, he had Rodman and Kuko.

737
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:21,972
He's had three Hall of Famers in his six NBA championships.

738
00:56:21,972 --> 00:56:25,573
LeBron has played with ten NBA Hall of Famers.

739
00:56:25,953 --> 00:56:30,736
I I think I think that alone is kind of separates.

740
00:56:30,736 --> 00:56:34,977
I mean, is that a function of LeBron and l the longevity of his career?

741
00:56:35,290 --> 00:56:41,040
I well, I mean, I think it's uh a reflection of he he needed help.

742
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,241
He couldn't do it all on his own.

743
00:56:42,241 --> 00:56:45,462
He, you know So Michael Michael Jordan did it by himself?

744
00:56:45,474 --> 00:56:51,514
Well, I mean he did it with less less NBA Hall of Famers, and I'm not saying LeBron didn't
didn't help make those players.

745
00:56:51,514 --> 00:56:56,507
Didn't Scotty Pippin didn't Scottie Pippen win the MVP the year after the the year that
Michael Jordan went to play baseball?

746
00:56:56,507 --> 00:56:58,978
Uh I don't believe so, no.

747
00:56:59,578 --> 00:57:00,979
Those are the two years.

748
00:57:00,979 --> 00:57:03,939
Those are the two years those are the two years that they lost.

749
00:57:03,939 --> 00:57:08,634
I think Scottie Pippen was the MVP or had a Pippen I don't think Pippen ever won an MVP.

750
00:57:08,634 --> 00:57:12,232
He spent the year that when he they lost to the Rockets, right?

751
00:57:12,232 --> 00:57:13,142
I think.

752
00:57:13,186 --> 00:57:14,638
The Bulls never made it to the finals.

753
00:57:14,638 --> 00:57:17,872
They didn't l no, the the Knicks lose the Rockets.

754
00:57:18,234 --> 00:57:18,760
They did.

755
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:19,816
I think they did.

756
00:57:19,816 --> 00:57:22,599
Yeah, I think I think Scottie Pippins got an MEP.

757
00:57:23,762 --> 00:57:25,864
I I'll look it up right now, but I don't think so.

758
00:57:25,864 --> 00:57:27,276
Um

759
00:57:30,178 --> 00:57:36,151
No, he was uh he was considered he was third in MVP voting behind Hakeem and Robinson.

760
00:57:36,151 --> 00:57:45,706
Again, but but but he but think about how good so so Hakeem is a uh a Hall of Famer,
right?

761
00:57:45,807 --> 00:57:50,243
And Robinson, oh R that's right, Robinson won that year.

762
00:57:50,243 --> 00:57:51,470
So think about this.

763
00:57:51,470 --> 00:57:54,531
So he was in the consideration for MVP.

764
00:57:55,332 --> 00:57:56,552
He was third.

765
00:57:56,572 --> 00:57:59,768
I know, but he's in but he's a he was a finalist at at number three, right?

766
00:57:59,768 --> 00:58:06,104
So that means but think about how good you have to be to be in the conversation as a as to
the MV as an MVP.

767
00:58:06,244 --> 00:58:12,480
So that means that like so you so so was he not that good the year before Jordan left?

768
00:58:15,052 --> 00:58:18,033
He was d there's no question Pippen Piffin's an all time great.

769
00:58:18,033 --> 00:58:19,462
I he's one of the 50s.

770
00:58:19,462 --> 00:58:24,505
If Jordan doesn't leave that year, if Jordan doesn't leave that year, if he doesn't leave,
he's probably an MVP.

771
00:58:24,505 --> 00:58:26,665
So you got two MVPs on the same team?

772
00:58:26,705 --> 00:58:30,026
Two MVP quality players on the same team.

773
00:58:30,126 --> 00:58:34,745
Well, what does that say about LeBron when one of the NBA finals that they won?

774
00:58:34,745 --> 00:58:37,228
He wasn't even the best player on his team during the finals.

775
00:58:37,228 --> 00:58:38,689
They gave it to Dwayne Wade.

776
00:58:38,689 --> 00:58:40,729
LeBron wasn't even the best player on his team.

777
00:58:40,729 --> 00:58:43,576
So how can he be the greatest player of all time when

778
00:58:43,576 --> 00:58:47,228
During one of those championships, he wasn't even the best player on his team.

779
00:58:47,369 --> 00:58:48,630
You wanna know why?

780
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:55,094
Because when you're a team first guy, you're willing to do what it takes to win, right?

781
00:58:55,094 --> 00:59:04,921
And you're a team first guy, you'll sacrifice or the you'll sacrifice your personal uh
goals and accomplishments for the greater good of the team, right?

782
00:59:04,921 --> 00:59:06,982
LeBron is a team first guy.

783
00:59:07,102 --> 00:59:12,846
And and let me tell you, if you were had if you're running an organization, you want a
LeBron or you want

784
00:59:12,846 --> 00:59:14,236
You want a Michael Jordan?

785
00:59:16,310 --> 00:59:19,403
About I want I'll I'll take ten LeBrons over ten Michael Jordans.

786
00:59:19,403 --> 00:59:24,036
And like in terms of work, I want a guy who will do anything it takes.

787
00:59:24,698 --> 00:59:34,666
Or or you could just have that one great sales guy who just, you know, who who who who is,
you know, who gets all the accolades and and everybody else is starving.

788
00:59:35,387 --> 00:59:37,269
I mean, you act like Jordan had a short career.

789
00:59:37,269 --> 00:59:43,246
I mean, he wasn't um, you know, he wasn't Terrell Davis or

790
00:59:43,246 --> 00:59:49,867
uh Somebody who played 10 years in the league or eight years in the league and injuries
made him end his career sooner.

791
00:59:49,867 --> 00:59:53,050
I mean, Jordan still played for 15, 16 years.

792
00:59:53,050 --> 00:59:56,038
Um I know I know he was a bum at the end of his career.

793
00:59:56,038 --> 00:59:56,912
I know that much.

794
00:59:56,912 --> 01:00:01,533
He averaged 20 plus a game with with Washington, but he didn't he didn't hang on.

795
01:00:01,533 --> 01:00:03,634
He didn't hang on because he wanted to play with his kid.

796
01:00:03,634 --> 01:00:05,785
He didn't hang on because he wanted to chase championships.

797
01:00:05,785 --> 01:00:11,217
But listen, and listen, and and they're an uh and when you think about think about this.

798
01:00:11,377 --> 01:00:13,228
As good as Michael Jordan was.

799
01:00:13,858 --> 01:00:16,280
He couldn't get in he couldn't get Marcus to the league.

800
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,542
He just shoes LeBron's.

801
01:00:18,542 --> 01:00:20,073
He played Marcus played college basketball.

802
01:00:20,073 --> 01:00:20,944
He played college basketball.

803
01:00:20,944 --> 01:00:22,465
He's a division one college basketball.

804
01:00:22,465 --> 01:00:30,511
Well, that just goes to show you that Jordan wanted his kid to be, you know, make his own
path, not following his father's footsteps.

805
01:00:32,433 --> 01:00:35,136
I think this would be a great place to wrap this up.

806
01:00:35,136 --> 01:00:42,041
How do you how do you uh yeah, I mean it's it's I mean, listen, I I and I feel for
LeBron's kid too, because that's tough.

807
01:00:42,041 --> 01:00:43,282
Those are tough shoes to fill.

808
01:00:43,282 --> 01:00:53,468
Uh I regardless, no matter what Jordan's kids are doing, they're always gonna be measured
based on this their father's success in the eyes of uh outside people.

809
01:00:53,468 --> 01:00:57,740
I'm sure obviously the family and close friends and stuff are gonna gonna look at that
differently.

810
01:00:57,740 --> 01:01:00,532
But everyone's always gonna s look at Jordan's kid or look at LeBron's kid.

811
01:01:00,532 --> 01:01:05,844
I mean, um yeah, I I think we both can agree that they're both exceptional.

812
01:01:05,844 --> 01:01:12,638
They both um, you know, have had a huge impact on not only the sport, but

813
01:01:12,686 --> 01:01:17,230
Um, you know, just a you know, culture you know, our culture in general, right?

814
01:01:17,230 --> 01:01:24,395
You know, one thing this one thing, so LeBron has been the face of the league for better
part of twenty years.

815
01:01:24,395 --> 01:01:29,979
Um this is probably his last year, right?

816
01:01:29,979 --> 01:01:31,280
One, maybe two.

817
01:01:31,741 --> 01:01:33,792
Who gets to step in and fill those shoes?

818
01:01:36,642 --> 01:01:43,673
Um good I mean, I you're asking somebody who is d just a average NBA fan right now.

819
01:01:43,673 --> 01:01:51,244
So um trying to look, uh trying to see who's who's there that that he can pass the torch
to.

820
01:01:54,570 --> 01:02:04,054
You know, it'd be unfair to to ask me that question because um I'm I'm not that you now if
you ask my son, he he follows MBA better than I do.

821
01:02:04,054 --> 01:02:08,566
I don't hear he could probably rip off he could probably rip off five or ten names.

822
01:02:08,566 --> 01:02:09,366
Maybe five.

823
01:02:09,366 --> 01:02:17,920
I follow the NBA and I follow MBA and I don't I don't I don't I don't know who that next
person is, right?

824
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,420
But right now, but let me ask you this though.

825
01:02:20,461 --> 01:02:23,798
Right now, LeBron is not the best player in the league.

826
01:02:23,798 --> 01:02:29,299
And I know Jordan's last two years no, he's not he's he's he's he's not he's not the best
player in the league.

827
01:02:29,299 --> 01:02:36,241
Yeah, but I would say I would say arguably he's a top ten to fifteen player in the league.

828
01:02:36,982 --> 01:02:37,682
That's debatable.

829
01:02:37,682 --> 01:02:39,012
I mean that's a dip we can debate that.

830
01:02:39,012 --> 01:02:41,373
That that could be a debate on the next time we're I'm done debating with this.

831
01:02:41,373 --> 01:02:43,183
I'm done debating him.

832
01:02:43,183 --> 01:02:44,193
No, I'm done debating.

833
01:02:44,193 --> 01:02:52,976
I he's probably yeah, I don't again, it's unfair for me to answer the answer that question
if if I can't rip off five names of of better players uh or players that he could pass a

834
01:02:52,976 --> 01:02:53,946
torch to.

835
01:02:54,074 --> 01:02:58,137
Um so it's it'd be unfair for me to say that he's not one of the top ten or fifteen.

836
01:02:58,137 --> 01:03:08,889
Um I would say if you he has not I think what I can say, um is that he has not been the
best player in the league over the past five years, right?

837
01:03:08,889 --> 01:03:11,717
Would is would you agree that he's not the best player?

838
01:03:11,717 --> 01:03:13,888
He hasn't been the best player in the league over the past five years?

839
01:03:13,888 --> 01:03:16,910
Um

840
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:24,554
You had to have a draft right now and you had to pick a player, LeBron wouldn't be your
first pick.

841
01:03:24,554 --> 01:03:26,215
A forty year old LeBron, okay.

842
01:03:26,215 --> 01:03:28,406
I mean Yeah, even a thirty five year old.

843
01:03:28,757 --> 01:03:32,739
listen, I at at the end of his career, he he looks better than Michael Jordan does.

844
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:34,781
Hearing Jordan's peak?

845
01:03:34,890 --> 01:03:38,884
Uh I'm just saying at the end of his career, 'cause every player has to No, I I I I I
agree.

846
01:03:38,884 --> 01:03:40,575
I I which is like ten years later.

847
01:03:40,575 --> 01:03:44,068
Well well, Jordan retired at thirty six.

848
01:03:44,068 --> 01:03:47,350
So he's he so Jordan had two years with Washington.

849
01:03:47,350 --> 01:03:47,590
Right.

850
01:03:47,590 --> 01:03:57,936
But if you go back to the three Pete years, you know, if you take Jordan's six or eight
years, his six or eight best years, and you compare them to LeBron's six or eight best

851
01:03:57,936 --> 01:04:04,019
years, there's no I mean, it's a close comparison, but I think Jordan Jordan Jordan has
the advantage.

852
01:04:04,439 --> 01:04:06,980
Under your argument, is Bill Russell?

853
01:04:07,421 --> 01:04:11,583
I I I know, but Bill Russell's not in the in that in the conversation we were talking
about.

854
01:04:11,583 --> 01:04:13,604
We're talking about LeBron and Jordan.

855
01:04:16,250 --> 01:04:17,110
Let's

856
01:04:17,112 --> 01:04:18,503
How many, how many teams were in the league?

857
01:04:18,503 --> 01:04:19,954
It's like it's like it doesn't matter.

858
01:04:19,954 --> 01:04:21,385
It's like it's like the Canadians.

859
01:04:21,385 --> 01:04:23,347
Everyone's like, Montreal, the stories franchise.

860
01:04:23,347 --> 01:04:24,988
There are six teams in the league.

861
01:04:25,049 --> 01:04:28,812
Like you, you rolled out of bed, you had a one in six chance of winning the Stanley Cup.

862
01:04:28,812 --> 01:04:29,762
Just like baseball.

863
01:04:29,762 --> 01:04:31,964
You know, the Yankees, and I'm a Yankee fan, right?

864
01:04:31,964 --> 01:04:34,536
They got twenty-eight world championships.

865
01:04:34,536 --> 01:04:34,846
Yeah.

866
01:04:34,846 --> 01:04:38,419
Well, how many of those were when there were, what, 10, 12 teams in the league?

867
01:04:38,419 --> 01:04:38,730
Right?

868
01:04:38,730 --> 01:04:41,662
Or or I I mean, the landscape's different.

869
01:04:41,662 --> 01:04:44,725
Um, NBA's evolved and changed.

870
01:04:44,725 --> 01:04:46,926
It's not as physical as it used to be.

871
01:04:47,106 --> 01:04:57,093
You know, Jordan Jordan had to you know, Jordan had to do all these things to get get
physical to to beat to beat the pistons, you know, but we this we could have a whole set

872
01:04:57,093 --> 01:05:00,365
podcast about this and and um but it's been great, man.

873
01:05:00,365 --> 01:05:03,457
I I I I I am very grateful.

874
01:05:03,478 --> 01:05:04,278
Yes.

875
01:05:04,278 --> 01:05:06,800
That would be that would be awesome.

876
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:15,406
But um yeah, I we've uh we've definitely gone a little over time, but it's been it's been
a fantastic conversation.

877
01:05:15,938 --> 01:05:23,094
Thank you for sharing your journey, your insights on modernization, leadership, and what
it takes to compete and grow in today's environment.

878
01:05:23,094 --> 01:05:27,808
To our listeners, thank you for always for joining us on the ACS portfolio perspective.

879
01:05:27,808 --> 01:05:28,969
We appreciate your time.

880
01:05:28,969 --> 01:05:32,211
Look forward to bringing you more conversations like this very soon.

881
01:05:32,211 --> 01:05:33,722
And vote on this debate.

882
01:05:33,722 --> 01:05:41,459
We may have something up on LinkedIn where you can you can decide for yourself who you
think is the greatest NBA player of all time, Jordan LeBron.

883
01:05:41,459 --> 01:05:42,479
So thank you, Kareem.

884
01:05:42,479 --> 01:05:45,782
I'll be sitting Bill Russell.

885
01:05:45,973 --> 01:05:47,591
I see, thank you so much.