113: Public Enemies with Blake Howard

WEBVTT
1
00:00:23.620 --> 00:00:25.760
Welcome to Podcast Like It's the 2000s, the podcast where
2
00:00:25.780 --> 00:00:27.859
we talk about the films of the aughts here from
3
00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.579
our perch in 2026. I'm one of your hosts, Phil Isco.
4
00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:33.689
I'm your other host, Emily St. James. And a fun
5
00:00:33.729 --> 00:00:36.170
fact about me is that I'm here to deliver you
6
00:00:36.229 --> 00:00:41.340
a message from your dying lover. And that message is,
7
00:00:41.979 --> 00:00:43.200
listen to more podcasts.
8
00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:45.500
Yeah, there you go. I love that.
9
00:00:45.539 --> 00:00:47.479
I was going to.
10
00:00:47.219 --> 00:00:49.299
Be like, bye-bye Blackbird.
11
00:00:49.859 --> 00:00:51.859
What if the person you loved most in the world
12
00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:54.920
was dying and they just grabbed a random person and
13
00:00:54.979 --> 00:00:58.939
whispered in their ear, listen to more podcasts. If that
14
00:00:58.979 --> 00:01:02.539
was my last message to Libby, she would resurrect me
15
00:01:02.619 --> 00:01:03.119
and kill me.
16
00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:07.700
Just to do it again. With us today to wrap
17
00:01:07.969 --> 00:01:14.650
up our 2000s Best Actress Oscar Follow-Ups miniseries. As film journalist, podcaster,
18
00:01:14.670 --> 00:01:18.689
and producer behind One Minute Productions, Blake Howard is back
19
00:01:18.730 --> 00:01:19.689
with us to.
20
00:01:19.609 --> 00:01:26.620
Talk yet again about a period crime drama, Road to Perdition,
21
00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:33.019
and now Public Enemies. You were the first person I asked, Blake,
22
00:01:33.890 --> 00:01:36.230
and thankfully you said yes, to talk with us about
23
00:01:36.269 --> 00:01:37.430
Michael Mann's Public Enemies.
24
00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:39.670
Movie that i can only assume you enjoy.
25
00:01:40.329 --> 00:01:43.650
Well i i didn't say yes i said i like
26
00:01:43.709 --> 00:01:47.530
baseball movies good clothes fast cars whiskey and you what
27
00:01:47.590 --> 00:01:50.680
else do you need to know is what i exactly.
28
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:52.560
Said that that was your exact email my apologies i
29
00:01:52.579 --> 00:01:53.379
should have yes.
30
00:01:53.299 --> 00:01:55.959
But and of course i like being back as i
31
00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:59.510
i love you guys i'm so happy that i'm back
32
00:01:59.569 --> 00:02:02.129
talking about this i'm stoked that I got to talk
33
00:02:02.170 --> 00:02:04.689
about Road to Perdition. I almost forgot that that happened.
34
00:02:04.730 --> 00:02:06.409
I was like, wow, I'm going to go back and
35
00:02:06.450 --> 00:02:08.250
listen to that. What did I say about Road to Perdition?
36
00:02:08.289 --> 00:02:10.849
It's a great episode where Emily talks about how she
37
00:02:10.909 --> 00:02:14.500
forgot that she had watched Road to Perdition moments after
38
00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:15.860
finishing Road to Perdition.
39
00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.240
And now I've forgotten that it exists.
40
00:02:18.419 --> 00:02:19.479
Thank you for reminding me.
41
00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:24.620
It's come full circle. There you go. This movie is,
42
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:27.629
I think, I'm excited to talk about this movie for
43
00:02:27.650 --> 00:02:31.830
a bunch of reasons. perhaps because it's probably the best
44
00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:37.379
movie in this miniseries. This miniseries was a wild ride. Just,
45
00:02:37.409 --> 00:02:39.879
I'm going to walk you through this Blake, because you,
46
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:44.020
you are thankfully wrapping this up for us, but this
47
00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.740
has been a, a, a pretty wild ride. I'm going
48
00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:51.620
to read these to you real quick here. Um, pay
49
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:57.909
it forward. The gift America's sweethearts die. Another day dogville,
50
00:02:58.819 --> 00:03:03.460
Aeon Flux, The Black Dahlia, Penelope, National Treasure 2, Book
51
00:03:03.500 --> 00:03:06.719
of Secrets, and now Public Enemy.
52
00:03:07.430 --> 00:03:10.849
I could see someone making the argument for Dogville over this.
53
00:03:11.129 --> 00:03:14.349
Sure, sure, sure. I'm not a big Dogville fan, but
54
00:03:14.389 --> 00:03:18.830
I get it. Any of the others, I'm like, hmm.
55
00:03:19.389 --> 00:03:23.120
I mean, it's, yeah. I mean, to be clear, this
56
00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:26.479
miniseries has been a blast because it's been a wild ride.
57
00:03:27.219 --> 00:03:28.979
And it's been filled with just a bunch of like
58
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:33.300
movies that don't exist or just sort of ephemera, if
59
00:03:33.340 --> 00:03:33.719
you will.
60
00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:40.860
I just laughed at National Book of Secrets. Because if
61
00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:42.840
you had a gun to my head and said, what's
62
00:03:42.909 --> 00:03:48.889
the subtitle on National Treasure 2? I'd be dead. Until now.
63
00:03:49.349 --> 00:03:52.669
Do you know where the Book of Secrets is in
64
00:03:52.710 --> 00:03:53.469
National Treasure 2?
65
00:03:53.449 --> 00:03:55.909
Do you know where they hide it, Blake, by any chance?
66
00:03:57.259 --> 00:03:59.479
But it's beneath mount rushmore.
67
00:04:01.949 --> 00:04:04.770
Which is i mean come on that's obvious i what
68
00:04:04.789 --> 00:04:07.370
i think is interesting about all of this though is
69
00:04:07.469 --> 00:04:12.610
that not that this movie doesn't exist per se but
70
00:04:12.629 --> 00:04:15.650
it kind of doesn't exist and it's kind of crazy
71
00:04:15.689 --> 00:04:19.970
to me with everything around it with the people involved
72
00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:25.529
in it that it it kind of just happened and
73
00:04:25.649 --> 00:04:29.610
audiences didn't really know what to do with it in
74
00:04:29.649 --> 00:04:30.209
a weird way.
75
00:04:30.550 --> 00:04:33.430
Is this the most non-existent Michael Mann movie? I think
76
00:04:33.490 --> 00:04:36.930
it's probably Ferrari, but like, Oh no.
77
00:04:36.939 --> 00:04:40.680
There's dads, there's dads falling asleep to Ferrari as we speak.
78
00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.579
There's a dad who has had a big lunch. He's
79
00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.779
had a big lunch and he just sees a bunch
80
00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.410
of Italian men timing a race in church and he's
81
00:04:50.449 --> 00:04:55.310
asleep after that. And that, it's like dad narcolepsy is
82
00:04:55.490 --> 00:04:57.970
is happening everywhere yeah everywhere.
83
00:04:58.129 --> 00:05:00.889
Black hat is obviously a movie that people don't really
84
00:05:00.930 --> 00:05:04.410
know about but it has a cult like that movie.
85
00:05:04.209 --> 00:05:06.420
Oh and we call them on over here at one
86
00:05:06.459 --> 00:05:08.819
eight minute productions we call them the soy boys because
87
00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:11.800
they're obsessed with the soy futures and manipulating them and
88
00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.639
so shout out to all you soy boys we love
89
00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.319
you i see you If you tell me again that
90
00:05:18.379 --> 00:05:20.680
Black Hat is the best Michael Mann film, I'm going
91
00:05:20.699 --> 00:05:23.089
to take you to bed because you need to go
92
00:05:23.110 --> 00:05:25.649
to bed. You need to go to sleep. You sleep
93
00:05:25.709 --> 00:05:25.970
it off.
94
00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:28.790
I think you might be right, Emily, that this might
95
00:05:28.810 --> 00:05:29.970
be the one that's the most innocuous.
96
00:05:29.990 --> 00:05:31.649
This movie didn't make $ 100 million. It had that engine
97
00:05:31.670 --> 00:05:32.290
of making money.
98
00:05:32.370 --> 00:05:33.769
It made $ 214 million on a $ 100 million budget.
99
00:05:34.069 --> 00:05:35.009
There you go. It made.
100
00:05:46.660 --> 00:05:49.040
It could have been. Probably they would have liked it
101
00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:52.259
to be bigger for that amount of money. But the
102
00:05:52.310 --> 00:05:55.949
Depp bail thing at that time was going to pull
103
00:05:56.029 --> 00:06:00.589
in a lot of viewers, especially overseas. I don't know.
104
00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:03.329
I really like this movie. I am this movie's cult.
105
00:06:04.350 --> 00:06:10.709
You do really like this movie. I saw this movie
106
00:06:10.769 --> 00:06:13.959
opening weekend in theaters. I was very excited about this movie.
107
00:06:14.980 --> 00:06:20.509
And I kind of left the theater disappointed because I
108
00:06:20.829 --> 00:06:23.990
think I went in expecting, I don't know, heat meets
109
00:06:24.009 --> 00:06:26.170
the untouchables is I think what in my brain I
110
00:06:26.209 --> 00:06:29.420
was like, that's what I'm going to get. And after
111
00:06:29.449 --> 00:06:33.019
Miami Vice, which was another sort of movie that everyone
112
00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:36.339
was super excited about and left a little flummoxed, I
113
00:06:36.379 --> 00:06:36.779
would say.
114
00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:40.459
I was, I just want to, for the record, say
115
00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:44.930
that I was floating out of Miami Vice. I was,
116
00:06:45.110 --> 00:06:48.160
I was, I was floating out of it. And people
117
00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:50.759
were like, the stupid audience that I was walking past
118
00:06:50.779 --> 00:06:54.339
was like, what's with his mustache? I'm like, did you
119
00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:56.750
see the leg maneuver with Gong Li? Did you see
120
00:06:56.790 --> 00:07:00.449
the boat? Did you see Jose Uro? What are we
121
00:07:00.569 --> 00:07:01.509
talking about?
122
00:07:02.029 --> 00:07:05.870
I had never been a Michael Mann person. Some of
123
00:07:05.889 --> 00:07:09.129
that was undiagnosed gender dysphoria, which we'll get to in
124
00:07:09.170 --> 00:07:09.370
a bit.
125
00:07:09.410 --> 00:07:09.980
We'll get to that.
126
00:07:10.449 --> 00:07:13.399
Good, good. Just making a note. We should proceed back.
127
00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:13.680
Yeah.
128
00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:21.189
A lot of it was just like something about Miami
129
00:07:21.230 --> 00:07:23.810
Vice unlocked him for me. That is my favorite movie
130
00:07:23.829 --> 00:07:27.399
by him. There are images from that movie that stay
131
00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:29.319
in my brain. And I was like, Blake, I was
132
00:07:29.379 --> 00:07:30.800
at a screening of that. And I was like, well,
133
00:07:30.819 --> 00:07:34.259
that's obviously a masterpiece. And people were like, I don't understand.
134
00:07:34.339 --> 00:07:35.800
Why did he have a mustache?
135
00:07:35.819 --> 00:07:39.660
And you're like, what? I mean, that's what you took away.
136
00:07:39.980 --> 00:07:42.379
It's so funny, Emily, you and Bill Gabiri are the same.
137
00:07:44.819 --> 00:07:50.170
Bilge said, like, genuinely, even though I have later been
138
00:07:50.209 --> 00:07:55.490
a fan, when Miami Vice came out, something clicked in
139
00:07:55.529 --> 00:07:59.310
my brain and it went, oh, this guy's a genius.
140
00:07:59.810 --> 00:08:03.310
And he went back to every film, every previous film
141
00:08:03.329 --> 00:08:05.540
and every subsequent film. He was like, there had been
142
00:08:05.629 --> 00:08:08.220
something that unlocked in his brain chemistry that this is
143
00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:11.339
the way that you view this guy. I remember.
144
00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:15.920
really liking the insider and i remember liking heat i
145
00:08:15.939 --> 00:08:18.959
remember just like watching his movies pre miami vice and
146
00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:22.069
being like this guy clearly is an auteur i respect
147
00:08:22.110 --> 00:08:25.850
what he's doing i don't get it and now since
148
00:08:25.889 --> 00:08:29.389
watching miami vice every time i revisit a man film
149
00:08:29.449 --> 00:08:31.529
especially if i can see him in theaters i just
150
00:08:31.550 --> 00:08:34.730
like i'm more locked in he's still not like on
151
00:08:34.789 --> 00:08:38.419
my apex but i like I finally get why people
152
00:08:38.779 --> 00:08:39.639
really love Heat.
153
00:08:39.830 --> 00:08:42.350
It's not my movie, but I get why people adore it.
154
00:08:42.529 --> 00:08:45.070
You drink a lot of mojitos, obviously, before you.
155
00:08:45.009 --> 00:08:48.649
Watch Miami Vice.
156
00:08:48.669 --> 00:08:51.750
I do. It works out. We have two more Michael
157
00:08:51.789 --> 00:08:53.840
Mann movies in the 2000s to cover, one of which
158
00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:55.659
is your favorite, which is Miami Vice at some point.
159
00:08:55.700 --> 00:08:57.960
I'm sure we will talk about it. And then Ali,
160
00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:03.879
which is another movie that I think it's just interesting.
161
00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:08.629
I feel like post heat and the insider, he becomes
162
00:09:08.669 --> 00:09:14.169
a little bit more idiosyncratic. I would say his narratives
163
00:09:14.230 --> 00:09:17.320
become a lot less sort of clearly defined, I would say,
164
00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:20.440
and audiences don't really know what to do with that.
165
00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:24.700
And I think that they keep expecting something a little
166
00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:26.919
bit more by the books and they become a little
167
00:09:26.940 --> 00:09:31.320
bit more impressionistic. And I think that also his movies
168
00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.169
are pretty chilly and remote. So I think that, that
169
00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:37.389
mixed with all this i'm not i'm not dogging it
170
00:09:37.429 --> 00:09:38.269
i'm just like no no.
171
00:09:38.250 --> 00:09:42.269
I you know it's just funny like sometimes movies which
172
00:09:42.309 --> 00:09:44.379
i totally appreciate they kind of teach you how to
173
00:09:44.409 --> 00:09:46.879
watch them after the first viewing and i think that
174
00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.620
that's absolutely not conducive to a cinematic thing 100 but
175
00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.179
but the biggest benefit that i believe michael mann 2000s
176
00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:56.960
movies have had is that when they drop on a
177
00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.879
streamer and people have had been dealt up garbage you
178
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:05.779
that hasn't got any ingenuity, like left of center, unpredictability,
179
00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.080
maybe a bit of coldness that you have to approach them.
180
00:10:08.139 --> 00:10:10.700
You have to lean into the movie. It's like Black
181
00:10:10.740 --> 00:10:12.379
Hat pops up on Netflix. It was in the top
182
00:10:12.379 --> 00:10:15.820
20 for like 20 weeks. And you're like, what? And
183
00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:18.000
you just don't understand. Hold on a second.
184
00:10:18.019 --> 00:10:18.100
Wait.
185
00:10:18.379 --> 00:10:20.279
You guys never saw that? And then like Collateral is
186
00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:21.960
big on every streamer it goes to. It's in the
187
00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:25.139
top 10 in the carousel. Miami Vice has the same experience.
188
00:10:25.179 --> 00:10:29.580
It's just like they just somehow have just taken it off.
189
00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:33.820
It's interesting that the two times where Michael Mann right
190
00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.120
away from the first people were like into it in
191
00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:43.350
theaters was Mohicans and Collateral. Because Insider obviously is a
192
00:10:43.370 --> 00:10:46.090
big Oscar player but wasn't a very big hit. He
193
00:10:46.169 --> 00:10:50.090
did Did really well overseas. Did just okay in the U.S.
194
00:10:50.210 --> 00:10:53.080
Didn't make a dent at the Oscars. And then, yes,
195
00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:59.080
all of these movies become classics when they make it home.
196
00:10:59.259 --> 00:11:04.399
So it is weird now as someone who has lived
197
00:11:04.460 --> 00:11:08.179
in the shadow of heat her whole life. To be like, oh,
198
00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:10.220
at the time people were like, that's okay.
199
00:11:10.899 --> 00:11:13.639
No, I remember I had to sneak into heat. I
200
00:11:13.659 --> 00:11:14.820
was 15.
201
00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:16.720
Emily and Phil, I have to tell you this story
202
00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:20.860
When I started One Heat Minute and decided that I
203
00:11:20.860 --> 00:11:23.419
was going to do a podcast of every single minute
204
00:11:23.470 --> 00:11:24.799
of heat chronologically.
205
00:11:24.830 --> 00:11:27.149
A totally normal thing to do, by the way. But
206
00:11:27.169 --> 00:11:28.289
nothing crazy about it.
207
00:11:28.429 --> 00:11:31.009
No, no, no, no, no. I'm in touch. I'm in touch.
208
00:11:31.250 --> 00:11:31.389
Yeah.
209
00:11:32.210 --> 00:11:35.629
When I decided to do that absolutely patently insane idea.
210
00:11:35.649 --> 00:11:35.730
Yeah.
211
00:11:37.049 --> 00:11:40.429
You have no, I cannot explain to people now in
212
00:11:40.470 --> 00:11:43.740
a world where like there's a great Twitter account that's
213
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.220
probably going to have 100,000 followers that is doing every
214
00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:49.710
frame of heat. And there are thousands of reactions on
215
00:11:49.750 --> 00:11:52.850
every frame that drops. When I said I was doing that,
216
00:11:52.929 --> 00:11:54.149
I had people go, hey, huh?
217
00:11:54.190 --> 00:11:54.450
Really?
218
00:11:54.470 --> 00:11:58.860
Huh? Like, why not Thief? I had people genuinely, like, oh,
219
00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.259
why not Thief? Or why not The Insider? Like, is
220
00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.500
that your favorite Michael Mann movie? I'm like, no, it's
221
00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.460
not just my favorite Michael Mann movie. It's my favorite
222
00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.519
movie of all time. And I think it can stand
223
00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:10.649
up to this scrutiny. And people just kind of shrugged
224
00:12:10.710 --> 00:12:12.269
at it. That was 2017. And in, like, in less
225
00:12:12.289 --> 00:12:12.529
than 10 years.
226
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:24.610
That idea of hate as canonical text has evolved radically, radically.
227
00:12:25.090 --> 00:12:27.690
And so we're saying there's still time for public enemies.
228
00:12:29.309 --> 00:12:30.129
Absolutely.
229
00:12:30.149 --> 00:12:33.909
Absolutely. And I, and this is to, to, to sort
230
00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:36.379
of piggyback on what you're both saying. I've seen this
231
00:12:36.389 --> 00:12:38.879
movie probably three or four times, saw it in the theaters,
232
00:12:39.179 --> 00:12:41.019
probably saw it a couple of times over the years.
233
00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:43.679
This is the first time I felt like I really
234
00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:48.850
locked into it. Um, And it really kind of, I
235
00:12:48.889 --> 00:12:52.809
was like, oh, this movie is great. And again, as
236
00:12:52.870 --> 00:12:56.570
we've said, over the last decade or so, his movies
237
00:12:56.610 --> 00:13:00.600
have required multiple viewings. I think that, but this movie
238
00:13:00.620 --> 00:13:03.860
in particular, I think at the time, there was a
239
00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:08.059
lot of talk about the aesthetics of this film, how
240
00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:11.419
it was shot, the digital photography. A lot of people
241
00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:15.370
didn't like it. A lot of people, Complained about it
242
00:13:15.429 --> 00:13:21.570
being sort of a modern cinematography in a period film
243
00:13:21.690 --> 00:13:24.950
felt antithetical, felt like it was sort of going against whatever.
244
00:13:26.169 --> 00:13:28.090
Now I watch this film and I'm just like, this
245
00:13:28.129 --> 00:13:31.549
movie is fucking stunning to look at. Like it is,
246
00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:34.259
it is. That being said, can we please get a
247
00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:36.200
4K of this movie?
248
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.460
One of the things I've noticed about early digital photography,
249
00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:43.929
regardless of how cruddy it is is that it looks
250
00:13:44.029 --> 00:13:45.429
really great on modern.
251
00:13:45.169 --> 00:13:47.789
Tvs yes yes modern.
252
00:13:47.529 --> 00:13:50.299
Tvs are like built to display this shit yeah this
253
00:13:50.379 --> 00:13:52.899
is the i watching it at home on my tv
254
00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:55.460
was the best i've ever seen it i thought the
255
00:13:55.480 --> 00:14:00.100
same way yeah i recently did a somewhat irresponsible purchase
256
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:07.350
of a great 4k projector and 110 inch glorious alr
257
00:14:07.370 --> 00:14:11.029
screen and i've got some dolby atmos and we're and
258
00:14:11.070 --> 00:14:12.129
i put this disc in.
259
00:14:14.490 --> 00:14:19.990
And I was just gobsmacked. I was like, oh my God,
260
00:14:20.070 --> 00:14:24.690
this looks amazing. And what's funny is that I think
261
00:14:24.730 --> 00:14:27.879
that all of the digital photography where the filmmakers were
262
00:14:27.940 --> 00:14:31.919
attempting to ape film have aged badly and they don't
263
00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.059
look as good, even though they look probably markedly better
264
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:40.519
in this early period than later. But I think that man...
265
00:14:41.289 --> 00:14:46.889
entire idea for like making the the the choice with
266
00:14:46.929 --> 00:14:49.389
the cinematography to be more experiential for the audience to
267
00:14:49.429 --> 00:14:51.309
be in the film to feel like they're in the
268
00:14:51.929 --> 00:14:55.139
1930s because it's so like defined a high definition um
269
00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:00.240
it just completely plays and just that the opening moments
270
00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:03.879
that the early prison break you know the interactions as
271
00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:05.899
he's paying off the cops and you just see this
272
00:15:06.830 --> 00:15:09.049
It's almost like a blue sky that doesn't exist in
273
00:15:09.090 --> 00:15:10.889
any other movie except for Miami Vice. It's like a
274
00:15:10.950 --> 00:15:14.980
blue sky behind Johnny Depp's John Dillinger in these old
275
00:15:14.980 --> 00:15:17.919
30 clothes. And his hair is sort of swept to
276
00:15:17.980 --> 00:15:20.639
the side. And you're like, this is gorgeous. I don't
277
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:25.460
know what anyone was thinking about in how they looked
278
00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:26.899
at it. And I think they think the same about
279
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:28.899
Collateral too. They were like, oh, this looks crummy. But
280
00:15:28.940 --> 00:15:30.120
now Collateral, you know.
281
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.980
100%. I think there's two factors. The first is I
282
00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.960
think that back in the day when Collateral and this
283
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.450
film were projected, those projectors, those digital projectors were not
284
00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:44.769
of a quality to actually be able to project it.
285
00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:47.889
To your point, Emily, I remember seeing this on the
286
00:15:47.929 --> 00:15:51.710
big screen and the blacks weren't black. It felt really blotchy.
287
00:15:51.929 --> 00:15:54.919
It didn't look great. And then watching it on my
288
00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:57.480
TV the other day, I was just like, this looks
289
00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.769
beautiful because I think that blackness technology has caught up
290
00:16:00.809 --> 00:16:02.350
with this movie is ultimately what i'm getting at.
291
00:16:02.570 --> 00:16:06.070
I saw this at the um i think it was
292
00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:10.129
an amc in downtown long beach that was going to
293
00:16:10.149 --> 00:16:13.309
go out of business like a year later because this
294
00:16:13.370 --> 00:16:15.690
is the depths of the recession when this came out
295
00:16:16.190 --> 00:16:17.789
and so part of me has always been like did
296
00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:20.009
i just like this movie because i got to see
297
00:16:20.169 --> 00:16:22.299
one movie a week that was in my budget and
298
00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:24.519
i picked this one and i just had to like
299
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.440
everything i watched sure But I watched it in an
300
00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:31.159
AMC that clearly didn't have a great projector. Cause I
301
00:16:31.179 --> 00:16:33.440
remember watching it and being like my big note being,
302
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.080
I was really swept up by the story. I was
303
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.659
really drawn into it, but also it looks like shit.
304
00:16:39.710 --> 00:16:42.250
And now I've rewatched it a couple of times over
305
00:16:42.269 --> 00:16:44.409
the years. I've come to really feel like this is
306
00:16:44.490 --> 00:16:49.250
one of my top five Michael Mann movies. And now, yeah,
307
00:16:49.269 --> 00:16:51.850
it has steadily looked better every time I've watched it
308
00:16:51.889 --> 00:16:53.990
as technology has sort of caught up to it.
309
00:16:54.250 --> 00:16:57.100
I will say this though, to, to your, initial point
310
00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:02.299
a couple minutes ago, Blake, about other digital films, right? Like,
311
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:04.920
I do think that it kind of melts my brain
312
00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:10.619
a little bit that Zodiac is a year before this movie, right? And, like,
313
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:15.180
Zodiac looks fucking immaculate. Now, admittedly, David Fincher might be
314
00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:17.220
the exception to the rule you're speaking of, but I
315
00:17:17.259 --> 00:17:18.119
do think that, like.
316
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:24.900
Zodiac, so close to my heart. Another lunatic project I did,
317
00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:29.910
but Zodiac... Fincher was trying to make digital film look
318
00:17:30.390 --> 00:17:32.670
like a 70s stock. You know, his whole thing was like,
319
00:17:32.809 --> 00:17:35.430
can we imagine that we just dusted this off from
320
00:17:35.470 --> 00:17:37.569
the Paramount archive and put it on and it just
321
00:17:37.589 --> 00:17:40.730
goes just as well with Parallax View and Chinatown and
322
00:17:40.849 --> 00:17:42.750
throw it up there and that's what it looks like.
323
00:17:43.150 --> 00:17:45.269
And he kind of like broke everyone's brains that that
324
00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:47.970
was even possible. You know, even though that movie also
325
00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:50.519
wasn't particularly well received at its time and is now
326
00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.400
like an out and out masterpiece. But yeah, the work
327
00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:57.339
that they do with that camera in Zodiac is... I
328
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:58.119
don't know how he did it.
329
00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:00.779
It's a totally different level. And I do think that this,
330
00:18:01.299 --> 00:18:03.140
to be clear, I do not think that Michael Mann
331
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:07.450
is trying to make this film look like Zodiac, right?
332
00:18:07.490 --> 00:18:09.950
Like he wants it to feel gritty and grainy. It's
333
00:18:10.029 --> 00:18:12.519
all very handheld. You're in people's faces. Like it's a
334
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.460
very different style. I'm just speaking of the technology more
335
00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:15.740
than anything.
336
00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:18.089
I want to do a show called one Zodiac star
337
00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:21.650
chart where I watch the Zodiac every, every time there's
338
00:18:21.710 --> 00:18:23.490
a new Zodiac sign.
339
00:18:23.529 --> 00:18:23.730
Yeah.
340
00:18:24.009 --> 00:18:25.349
So I watch it 12 times a year.
341
00:18:25.390 --> 00:18:28.099
And every time I interview professional astrologers about who the
342
00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:29.940
Zodiac killer is, they're going to tell me.
343
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:31.740
And it's always Ted Cruz. Every time.
344
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.000
Can I tell you, I would, I would be on
345
00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:40.220
the highest Patreon tier of that show. I would listen
346
00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.839
so much. I would email you incessantly. Emily, please get
347
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:46.019
me on. This is one of the great shows.
348
00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:49.240
Amazing. I'm going to give a little bit of context
349
00:18:49.269 --> 00:18:50.630
for our listeners who might not have seen this film.
350
00:18:50.650 --> 00:18:53.089
Public Enemy follows the final act of years of Depression-era
351
00:18:53.109 --> 00:18:55.130
bank robber John Dillinger, played by Johnny Depp and the
352
00:18:55.150 --> 00:18:58.960
massive federal manhandle led by FBI agent Melvin Purvis. Public
353
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.680
Enemies opened on July 3rd, 2009 against Transformers, Revenge of
354
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:05.900
the Fallen, Ice Age, Dawn of the Dinosaurs, The Proposal,
355
00:19:06.109 --> 00:19:09.569
The Hangover, and Up. It would go on to make
356
00:19:09.569 --> 00:19:11.910
$ 214 million on a $ 100 million budget. It has a
357
00:19:11.890 --> 00:19:15.029
70 score on Medic Critics, a 6.8 from audiences, and
358
00:19:15.049 --> 00:19:18.029
a 3.3 average on Letterboxd. Roger Ebert gave the film
359
00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:19.490
three and a half stars. He said, here is a
360
00:19:19.529 --> 00:19:21.869
film that shrugs off the way we depend on myth
361
00:19:21.970 --> 00:19:25.329
to sentimentalize our outlaws. There is no interest here about
362
00:19:25.369 --> 00:19:29.089
John Dillinger's childhood, his psychology, his sexuality. his famous charm,
363
00:19:29.309 --> 00:19:31.559
his Robin Hood legend. He likes sex, but not as
364
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.200
much as robbing banks. This is a very disciplined film.
365
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:36.339
You might not think it was possible to make a
366
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.359
film about the most famous outlaw of the 1930s without
367
00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:41.660
cliches and star chemistry and a film class screenplay structure,
368
00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:43.910
but man does it. This is a very good film
369
00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:47.289
with Devin Bell's performances of brutal clarity. I'm trying to
370
00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:49.829
understand why it's not quite a great film. I think
371
00:19:49.849 --> 00:19:51.359
it may be because it surprised me of some of
372
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:53.960
the stubborn need for closure his name was john dillinger
373
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:55.480
and he robbed banks but there has to be more
374
00:19:55.500 --> 00:19:57.839
to it than that right no apparently not.
375
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.500
I think that michael mann read the sentence he likes
376
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.680
sex but not as much as robbing banks and was
377
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:05.960
like Don't we all, though?
378
00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:06.980
Isn't that true?
379
00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:08.440
Isn't that just true?
380
00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:10.259
Isn't that just the human condition?
381
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:11.700
I will say, though.
382
00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:15.740
Truly nothing better than rubbing banks into boys.
383
00:20:16.230 --> 00:20:19.609
Manola Dargis of the New York Times, however, she said
384
00:20:19.650 --> 00:20:21.690
Michael Mann's Public Enemies is a grave and beautiful work
385
00:20:21.730 --> 00:20:24.650
of art shot in high-definition digital by filmmakers who are
386
00:20:24.730 --> 00:20:27.579
helping change the way movies look. It revisits with meticulous
387
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:30.660
detail and convulsions of violence a short, frantic period in
388
00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.710
the life of bank robbing times of John Dillinger. There's
389
00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:35.829
a lot more love for this movie than you would
390
00:20:36.289 --> 00:20:38.210
maybe have imagined at the time.
391
00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:40.140
I did just kind of a scan of the critics
392
00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:42.700
last night after watching it. And it is a Michael
393
00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:47.180
Mann movie that was really embraced by women. Now, women
394
00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:50.940
are traditionally more skeptical of Michael Mann because he likes
395
00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:53.789
to make movies about boys doing boy things.
396
00:20:54.190 --> 00:20:54.950
With guns.
397
00:20:55.190 --> 00:20:57.910
And, you know, like if I have a complaint about heat,
398
00:20:58.009 --> 00:21:01.609
it's that the women characters in that movie are terribly underserved.
399
00:21:02.539 --> 00:21:03.559
But I think the thing.
400
00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:06.079
That unites Miami Vice and Public Enemies is, yes, the
401
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.759
women in them have small parts, but they are like
402
00:21:09.099 --> 00:21:12.559
real humans who have like story arcs they go through.
403
00:21:12.579 --> 00:21:15.549
You know, Cotillard's part is ultimately pretty small, but like
404
00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:19.930
she's so integral to what makes this movie work, which
405
00:21:19.970 --> 00:21:21.710
is why I'm glad we're talking about it through the
406
00:21:21.769 --> 00:21:23.849
prism of her and not, say, Johnny Depp.
407
00:21:24.990 --> 00:21:27.470
Yes. No, we don't really talk about Johnny Depp, but
408
00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:28.210
I do.
409
00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:30.660
Can I give one anecdote? I don't know if it's
410
00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:33.569
apocryphal at this stage. I've done so many Michael Mann
411
00:21:33.619 --> 00:21:36.960
projects and studied his work and read every piece and
412
00:21:37.049 --> 00:21:39.390
heard many apocryphal tales from people who've worked with him
413
00:21:39.509 --> 00:21:44.369
and from the man himself. But the one story that
414
00:21:44.430 --> 00:21:49.029
I loved in the making of Public Enemies is that
415
00:21:49.069 --> 00:21:51.470
there was a point where Michael Mann walked up to
416
00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:54.339
Johnny Depp after a take and goes, I get it.
417
00:21:55.410 --> 00:21:56.029
You can't act.
418
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:03.200
What did Johnny say to that?
419
00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:08.079
It caused a massive fight. And he apparently... This is
420
00:22:08.140 --> 00:22:10.700
all under the alleged blanket, shall we say. We're all
421
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:13.700
just snuggling under the alleged blanket. But the apocryphal tale
422
00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.309
that I've heard is that he said to Johnny, you
423
00:22:15.529 --> 00:22:18.049
can't act. And he pointed to Christian Bale. And he's like,
424
00:22:18.089 --> 00:22:21.150
see that guy? He can act. You just can't act.
425
00:22:21.490 --> 00:22:26.160
And Deb storms off the set, leaves... He comes back,
426
00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:30.140
they basically don't talk one-to-one to each other for the remainder.
427
00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:32.559
Notes are passed between, like, an AD or an assistant
428
00:22:32.619 --> 00:22:34.819
to say what is required in any given scene for
429
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:38.619
the rest of the movie. But I just... I actually
430
00:22:38.660 --> 00:22:41.680
don't know if I would be more... It would be
431
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.170
more awkward in that situation being deaf and being told
432
00:22:44.190 --> 00:22:47.109
that you can't act, or it would be worse being
433
00:22:47.150 --> 00:22:50.470
Christian Bale having Johnny Depp look at you and Michael
434
00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:52.750
Mann point at you and be like, who can act?
435
00:22:52.869 --> 00:22:56.269
And you're like, oh, I... Why am I catching strides?
436
00:22:56.289 --> 00:22:59.470
Like I'm just here doing, I'm just here doing this.
437
00:23:00.009 --> 00:23:03.150
This was, I mean, again, under the, under the blanket
438
00:23:03.250 --> 00:23:08.470
blanket of, of hearsay, this was a notoriously stressful set
439
00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:12.410
from all accounts. And, and Michael Mann's movies tend to
440
00:23:12.470 --> 00:23:21.430
be somewhat intense environments. But the Johnny Depp thing too,
441
00:23:21.549 --> 00:23:23.150
at this point in his career, I mean, there's an
442
00:23:23.210 --> 00:23:28.269
argument to him being, the biggest movie star he probably
443
00:23:28.329 --> 00:23:29.630
was around this time.
444
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:30.230
Definitely.
445
00:23:31.059 --> 00:23:36.079
And, you know, he probably didn't take kindly to Michael Manson.
446
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:36.980
He doesn't know how to act.
447
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:39.759
There is like a thing about Johnny Depp.
448
00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:40.359
Yes.
449
00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:43.319
I'm never going to work with Johnny Depp.
450
00:23:43.339 --> 00:23:44.980
So I'm just going to say this. I'm never going
451
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.460
to work with Johnny Depp.
452
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:48.369
There is a thing about Johnny Depp where you remember
453
00:23:48.460 --> 00:23:52.910
in Chaplin, the famous movie everybody loves Chaplin. There's the
454
00:23:53.009 --> 00:23:56.200
scene where Robert Downey Jr., as Chaplin, is in a
455
00:23:56.259 --> 00:23:58.779
room and he starts grabbing pieces and he puts on
456
00:23:58.819 --> 00:24:00.420
a hat. He's like, what if I did a mustache?
457
00:24:00.460 --> 00:24:02.240
And it's like, oh my God, he's making the tramp.
458
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:06.640
That's kind of how Johnny Depp approaches every role. IMO.
459
00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:09.480
He will be like, can I get some makeup? Can
460
00:24:09.529 --> 00:24:14.210
I get some costume? Obviously, Jack Sparrow is an indelible character.
461
00:24:14.289 --> 00:24:17.390
Some of his work with Tim Burton has endured. But
462
00:24:18.329 --> 00:24:22.930
you watch around this point he loses that juice. You know,
463
00:24:22.970 --> 00:24:26.410
the Mad Hatter and Alice in Wonderland is a fucking nightmare.
464
00:24:26.750 --> 00:24:28.230
Coming the next year after this.
465
00:24:28.450 --> 00:24:28.809
Yeah.
466
00:24:28.970 --> 00:24:31.430
And like, but when he's trying to do things like this,
467
00:24:31.670 --> 00:24:33.710
where he's settling down and being like, I'm going to
468
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:37.500
remind you, I can act or finding Neverland is another
469
00:24:37.539 --> 00:24:39.579
good one where you're just like, Oh, this man is
470
00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:43.900
kind of boring. Like he's not like his, his performance
471
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:49.410
style is either he's giving the best community theater performance
472
00:24:49.430 --> 00:24:53.779
you've ever seen. or he's like posting on hand on
473
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.720
looks and charisma totally that have faded as he's aged
474
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:02.819
um and yet and yet i was recently home visiting
475
00:25:02.859 --> 00:25:05.279
my family and they were all very excited for ebenezer
476
00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:07.940
because they were excited to see johnny depp again and
477
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:10.180
these are like good like these are like people where
478
00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:13.640
i'm like i agree with them on 99 of all
479
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:16.079
things so i was shocked that they were like johnny
480
00:25:16.099 --> 00:25:21.059
depp it's time to see him again and.
481
00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:23.759
I am shocked really I do think you make a very,
482
00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:27.660
very good point about how he loves to hide behind
483
00:25:28.329 --> 00:25:31.529
accoutrement like that. He loves the business of it. I
484
00:25:31.569 --> 00:25:34.650
think part of it is because at least in the
485
00:25:34.730 --> 00:25:38.309
early days of his career, you know, with 21 Jump
486
00:25:38.329 --> 00:25:41.549
Street and him being this very attractive young man, I
487
00:25:42.250 --> 00:25:44.829
think that his fear was like, there's no, no one's
488
00:25:44.869 --> 00:25:47.730
taking me seriously as does. It seems like many, many
489
00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:52.519
a young, attractive actor wants to be taken seriously and
490
00:25:53.500 --> 00:25:55.500
he felt i guess the only way to do that
491
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:57.960
was to like cover himself in a bunch of bullshit
492
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:01.440
and it kind of starts i think a little bit
493
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:05.599
with fear and loathing with the shaved head and like
494
00:26:06.259 --> 00:26:10.799
all that kind of nonsense and it is interesting like
495
00:26:10.819 --> 00:26:15.119
this movie i think he's just not it's not even
496
00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:16.509
that i don't think he's up to the task i
497
00:26:16.529 --> 00:26:19.119
don't think he wants to do the work At this
498
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.140
point in his career, he thinks it should just be easy,
499
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:24.160
is what I'm assuming, and Michael Mann was never going
500
00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:25.160
to make it easy for him.
501
00:26:25.809 --> 00:26:30.849
Michael Mann loves folks who match his freak. The movie
502
00:26:31.349 --> 00:26:34.269
that a lot of people, like we were talking about, Collateral,
503
00:26:35.369 --> 00:26:37.210
people are like, oh my god, Michael Mann's sets are
504
00:26:37.230 --> 00:26:39.809
quite intense. Who are the two most intense human beings
505
00:26:39.869 --> 00:26:43.309
on the planet? Tom Cruise and Michael Mann. Do you
506
00:26:43.329 --> 00:26:47.740
know how every story from that set is loving? yeah
507
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.259
amazing incredibly professional because those two guys were the first
508
00:26:52.299 --> 00:26:55.220
two guys at the office at the beginning of there
509
00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:57.920
at the shoot the last two guys to leave they
510
00:26:57.940 --> 00:27:01.619
were really doing the work they loved the levels that
511
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:04.029
they were going at each other and then everyone around
512
00:27:04.069 --> 00:27:06.509
is like oh these two freaks are having the best
513
00:27:06.549 --> 00:27:09.390
time let's get involved like and they just everyone's up
514
00:27:10.029 --> 00:27:15.269
and you can totally see across public enemies particularly with
515
00:27:15.410 --> 00:27:18.420
actors like cotillard and billy right up and just like
516
00:27:18.460 --> 00:27:21.529
people who pop in Stephen Graham who now is cast
517
00:27:21.569 --> 00:27:24.710
as Neil McCauley in Heat 2 like Jason Clarke is
518
00:27:25.049 --> 00:27:29.569
excellent oh my word he's excellent um David Wenham just
519
00:27:29.609 --> 00:27:32.109
pops up like really crushes for like a while you
520
00:27:32.130 --> 00:27:34.470
know had to leave his family on Christmas Eve in
521
00:27:34.529 --> 00:27:37.730
Australia to fly to Chicago or something like that for
522
00:27:37.750 --> 00:27:42.420
like months on end um but you know everyone is
523
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.000
here going like I'm gonna do the work and so
524
00:27:45.019 --> 00:27:48.299
if the lead guy is reticent to be like anything
525
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:50.819
beyond hey i need to wear john dillinger's pants because
526
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:52.660
that will give me secret access to who this man
527
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:57.440
was um i don't know if that michael man considers
528
00:27:57.480 --> 00:27:58.440
that the work it's.
529
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.079
It makes me think of because so this this film
530
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:03.720
starts with dicaprio right like it was good to be
531
00:28:03.769 --> 00:28:06.509
dicaprio and michael man and and now obviously we're seeing
532
00:28:06.970 --> 00:28:09.519
dicaprio is going to be in heat too It makes
533
00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:10.619
sense that DiCaprio.
534
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:13.779
The movie would have made $ 500 million if it was DiCaprio.
535
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:15.880
It would have been a different movie.
536
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:20.119
A completely different movie. And I don't know that DiCaprio
537
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:22.799
is right to play Dillinger, to be clear. I do
538
00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:26.099
think that Johnny Depp, aesthetically and vibes-wise, makes a little
539
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:30.009
bit more sense. Yeah. But... DiCaprio's desire to work with
540
00:28:30.049 --> 00:28:32.930
Michael Mann makes complete sense because of everything you're talking about, right?
541
00:28:32.970 --> 00:28:35.549
Like DiCaprio wants to do the digging. He wants to
542
00:28:35.609 --> 00:28:38.349
find the layers. He wants to talk about things ad nauseum.
543
00:28:38.369 --> 00:28:41.089
And I have no doubt that Michael Mann is excited
544
00:28:41.109 --> 00:28:43.910
to do that with him. But I don't know. I
545
00:28:43.950 --> 00:28:48.259
feel like this movie is living in the kind of,
546
00:28:49.099 --> 00:28:51.380
it's the year after Dark Knight. So Christian Bale is
547
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:55.779
also riding pretty high in his career. even though this
548
00:28:55.819 --> 00:28:58.359
is a very understated Christian Bale performance, he's very, very
549
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:01.289
good in this movie, but like, it's not a noisy performance,
550
00:29:02.890 --> 00:29:06.009
but he's, he's got Terminator Salvation, which also comes out
551
00:29:06.089 --> 00:29:11.130
earlier in the year. Another notoriously totally normal set where
552
00:29:11.170 --> 00:29:14.140
everything was totally chill and Christian Bale didn't yell at
553
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:18.539
anybody in his eyeline, but it does feel like Christian
554
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:20.660
Bale wins the Oscar the next year for the fighter.
555
00:29:21.099 --> 00:29:24.509
I mean, This unlocks something for Christian Bale, I think.
556
00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:28.480
Maybe I'm wrong.
557
00:29:29.099 --> 00:29:31.960
I think he was already there. I think if you
558
00:29:32.019 --> 00:29:35.910
look at Rescue Dawn, which is a couple years before this,
559
00:29:36.109 --> 00:29:41.000
that's a big performance for him. I think think he's
560
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.200
very good in this. I don't know that I would
561
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.579
put this on my list of all-time Christian Bale performances.
562
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:54.779
I think that it's just interesting that this movie was
563
00:29:54.819 --> 00:29:56.869
not built this way, nor do I think it should
564
00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.859
have been. But it is somewhat similar to Heat in,
565
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:02.599
you know, Cops and Robbers. It does have these sort
566
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.480
of two big movie stars sort of circling each other
567
00:30:06.549 --> 00:30:10.450
for the majority of the film. You get one great
568
00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:14.009
scene that perhaps didn't really happen in real life between
569
00:30:14.130 --> 00:30:16.230
Christian Bale and Johnny Depp.
570
00:30:16.509 --> 00:30:19.630
The last scene that Michael Mann spoke to Johnny Depp
571
00:30:19.690 --> 00:30:24.329
on the set of Public Enemies is what I'm calling it.
572
00:30:24.410 --> 00:30:32.920
That's, yeah. So it's just, it is just interesting that, yeah,
573
00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:35.490
that this movie just doesn't, it's also, it's released on
574
00:30:35.549 --> 00:30:40.150
the 4th of July weekend. Like, I understand that choice,
575
00:30:40.230 --> 00:30:43.509
but if this movie had been a fall release, I think,
576
00:30:43.549 --> 00:30:44.890
first of all, it probably would have been more in
577
00:30:44.910 --> 00:30:47.380
the Oscar conversation to some degree. But I think people
578
00:30:47.390 --> 00:30:49.880
would have also been maybe a little bit more locked
579
00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:54.099
in to what this movie was bringing. Like, this is
580
00:30:54.140 --> 00:30:56.369
not a summer movie. that but then again road.
581
00:30:56.250 --> 00:30:58.430
To perdition was also released in the summer i mean
582
00:30:58.470 --> 00:31:02.049
like the releasing a big adult blockbuster in july or
583
00:31:02.109 --> 00:31:04.710
august used to just be a normal thing to do
584
00:31:04.730 --> 00:31:07.380
yeah and now we really we don't we don't really
585
00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:10.099
do that anymore um you're right this is you know
586
00:31:10.259 --> 00:31:14.240
this is this movie did quite well um for all
587
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:17.079
things considered um even if it was not you know
588
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:20.970
a world beating hit um it's one of man's highest
589
00:31:21.029 --> 00:31:23.769
grossing films like it is yeah yep.
590
00:31:24.430 --> 00:31:28.660
Um I wanted to ask, before we get to the
591
00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:32.069
core subject, Emily, where is it on your Stephen Lang
592
00:31:32.789 --> 00:31:37.609
Mount Rushmore? Speaking of Mount Rushmore, which, as we've learned
593
00:31:37.630 --> 00:31:39.880
at the beginning of the podcast, is the hiding place
594
00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:40.779
of the Book of Secrets.
595
00:31:42.380 --> 00:31:42.960
Right, right.
596
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:46.420
Well, you know, the problem is it's so hard to
597
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.200
get in alongside all three avatars.
598
00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:50.779
You've got to put them there.
599
00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:56.240
So, It's either this or the TV show Terranova. Let's
600
00:31:56.259 --> 00:31:57.000
just be honest.
601
00:32:00.309 --> 00:32:02.490
A beloved show that no one stops talking about.
602
00:32:02.509 --> 00:32:04.250
Not if I threw a dot could I have hit
603
00:32:04.289 --> 00:32:07.990
Terranova on that kiss.
604
00:32:08.670 --> 00:32:08.990
I was a.
605
00:32:08.990 --> 00:32:11.200
Little let down by the third Avatar movie as a
606
00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:12.180
huge Avatar fan.
607
00:32:12.500 --> 00:32:13.480
It was a bummer.
608
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:18.960
But The scenes where Miles Quaritch, memorable character name, is
609
00:32:19.059 --> 00:32:19.869
super horny.
610
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.829
It's so horny.
611
00:32:22.069 --> 00:32:24.109
Like, they're just seared into my brain.
612
00:32:24.529 --> 00:32:26.529
Oh, my God. The scene where she drugs him and
613
00:32:26.549 --> 00:32:28.529
the hallucination scene?
614
00:32:28.730 --> 00:32:29.710
A hundred out of ten.
615
00:32:29.789 --> 00:32:32.589
I know that that movie was a mild box office disappointment,
616
00:32:32.609 --> 00:32:34.089
which is a crazy thing to say about a movie
617
00:32:34.109 --> 00:32:34.430
that made $ 1.
618
00:32:34.329 --> 00:32:35.049
5 billion. But....
619
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:38.460
They got to make four.
620
00:32:38.299 --> 00:32:40.720
And five before he passes because I got to see
621
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:42.799
how it works out between him and Varang.
622
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:44.660
I'm all in on that relationship.
623
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:47.140
All in on that relationship. And I'm all in on
624
00:32:47.180 --> 00:32:50.519
the memes of MAGA men and their Filipino wives that
625
00:32:50.539 --> 00:32:53.650
came out of their relationship too, which is just one
626
00:32:53.690 --> 00:32:57.170
of my favorite memes that has ever existed in the
627
00:32:57.230 --> 00:32:57.950
last little bit.
628
00:32:58.190 --> 00:33:00.690
I got to say, Emily, I'm a little surprised that
629
00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:04.039
you just didn't even bring up Shrike. shrike doesn't even
630
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:06.259
come up in your mount rush.
631
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:09.099
He's now he that's a good point i really should
632
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:12.920
put on i should it should be okay avatar one
633
00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:16.000
avatar the way of water and then it's it's mortal
634
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.880
engines and then i i think it's got to be
635
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:25.670
terra nova you know we all remember right there They
636
00:33:25.690 --> 00:33:28.930
always talk about adding a fifth face to Rushmore. People
637
00:33:29.009 --> 00:33:32.809
have discussed it. Most notably, Donald Trump has discussed it.
638
00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:34.210
A lot of people discussing it.
639
00:33:34.250 --> 00:33:37.269
A lot of people discussing it. I can't believe that
640
00:33:37.369 --> 00:33:39.710
Stephen Lang is 74. He looks great.
641
00:33:40.410 --> 00:33:44.420
He is a snack. He's a snack.
642
00:33:45.859 --> 00:33:50.779
So, Mary Gaultier makes La Vie en Rose in 2007.
643
00:33:50.779 --> 00:33:55.950
She wins Best Actress for that film. For the record,
644
00:33:55.990 --> 00:34:00.799
we're not going to discuss Marion's political views because they're
645
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.259
fucking insane. So we're just going to keep that off
646
00:34:04.299 --> 00:34:06.579
to the side here. I don't want our listeners to
647
00:34:06.619 --> 00:34:08.159
think that we're... That's on.
648
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:11.739
The Zodiac podcast that Emily's on. Yeah, it's kind of funny.
649
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:13.199
Yeah, Marion's a guest on that.
650
00:34:13.460 --> 00:34:15.900
It's kind of funny when your core trio is Johnny Depp,
651
00:34:15.940 --> 00:34:18.539
Christian Bale, and Marion Cotillard, and you're like the guy
652
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.360
where at least he's normal is Christian Bale.
653
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:23.070
For real.
654
00:34:24.929 --> 00:34:27.929
Yeah, Varian's got feelings about September 11th that I don't
655
00:34:28.809 --> 00:34:35.320
subscribe to. But yes, that aside, she wins for a
656
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:37.940
film I've never seen. I never saw. Is she good
657
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:40.960
in it, Emily? I'm sure she's good in it.
658
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:45.780
It is a good musical biopic, and she's quite good
659
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:49.179
in it. Would I have voted for her? Probably not,
660
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.900
but it's a win that I can get behind. Especially
661
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.099
in that period of like, oh, we're going to slather
662
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.599
a bunch of makeup on you and make you look
663
00:34:56.739 --> 00:34:59.829
old like that. It's one of the better versions of that.
664
00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:03.360
Out of the five, would you have voted for her?
665
00:35:03.789 --> 00:35:06.409
Actual old person, Julie Christie, I think.
666
00:35:06.469 --> 00:35:09.429
Right. So it's Julie Christie for Away from Her Cape
667
00:35:09.449 --> 00:35:13.460
Blanchett for the Elizabeth sequel. Laura Linney for The Savages
668
00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:15.099
and Elliot Page for Juno.
669
00:35:15.619 --> 00:35:16.719
Yeah.
670
00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:19.840
I'd probably go Julie Christie in that five.
671
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:20.420
Yeah.
672
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:20.559
Yeah.
673
00:35:20.849 --> 00:35:23.210
You know i i love elliot page in in in
674
00:35:23.250 --> 00:35:25.409
juno and i also wonder how he would feel about
675
00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:26.070
having that.
676
00:35:26.010 --> 00:35:28.190
Oscar yeah that would that would be a little it'd
677
00:35:28.210 --> 00:35:28.349
be a.
678
00:35:28.309 --> 00:35:31.570
Little bad to say that's how i feel about my
679
00:35:31.610 --> 00:35:34.710
primetime emmy for supporting actor in a comedy series i
680
00:35:34.789 --> 00:35:37.929
really like i keep it displayed but i just we
681
00:35:37.949 --> 00:35:40.309
all remember how good i was on 30 rock but.
682
00:35:40.190 --> 00:35:43.829
You're amazing obviously you deserved the award yeah i did
683
00:35:44.389 --> 00:35:47.070
um I always forget Cate Blanchett was nominated for the
684
00:35:47.130 --> 00:35:49.170
Elizabeth sequel. It's so weird.
685
00:35:49.389 --> 00:35:52.750
She blocked out somebody. I'm going to look this up.
686
00:35:52.750 --> 00:35:54.840
There was somebody in the running that year where she
687
00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:56.860
blocked them out and I was mad about it.
688
00:35:57.099 --> 00:36:00.219
I'm just trying to look at what the big features,
689
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:04.920
like what the Academy Award winning, like, features were that year.
690
00:36:05.139 --> 00:36:06.519
That was, that was the No Country.
691
00:36:06.539 --> 00:36:07.780
That's the 2007 No Country.
692
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:08.659
Oh, yeah.
693
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:09.820
Michael Clayton.
694
00:36:10.059 --> 00:36:12.650
So it's a, it is a really amazing year at
695
00:36:12.670 --> 00:36:14.610
the Oscars. It is not such a great year for
696
00:36:14.650 --> 00:36:17.570
the ladies. But, you know, we've been, we've been there before.
697
00:36:17.590 --> 00:36:20.429
It is, it's No Country that wins. It's Atonement, Juno,
698
00:36:20.489 --> 00:36:22.590
Michael Clayton, There Will Be Blood. Like, that's a solid five.
699
00:36:23.250 --> 00:36:24.550
It's a, it's a good five.
700
00:36:24.829 --> 00:36:29.519
The supporting act, the supporting actresses that year, Tilda and
701
00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:30.340
Michael Clayton.
702
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:30.599
Mm-hmm.
703
00:36:31.449 --> 00:36:37.030
Amazing incredible yes how sersha going in for supporting is
704
00:36:37.389 --> 00:36:41.150
kind of category fraud like it's a little bit yeah
705
00:36:41.449 --> 00:36:43.590
amy ryan gone baby gone great.
706
00:36:43.730 --> 00:36:47.489
Great yeah what makes sersha work is that she's only
707
00:36:47.530 --> 00:36:49.570
in the first half of the movie you know like
708
00:36:49.590 --> 00:36:52.760
right then she's romola gary and then she's um uh
709
00:36:53.010 --> 00:36:55.570
vanessa redgrave or lynn redgrave i don't remember She's.
710
00:36:55.469 --> 00:36:57.050
A red grave, yeah. She's a red grave. I think
711
00:36:57.070 --> 00:36:57.530
it's Vanessa.
712
00:36:57.750 --> 00:36:59.150
I think we all would love to grow up to
713
00:36:59.170 --> 00:36:59.809
be a red grave.
714
00:36:59.849 --> 00:37:00.769
We should all.
715
00:37:00.829 --> 00:37:02.929
We all strive to be a red grave eventually.
716
00:37:04.349 --> 00:37:06.980
It is just, it is. Oh, what was it?
717
00:37:07.130 --> 00:37:10.789
Amy Adams in Enchanted. That was the one that got
718
00:37:10.849 --> 00:37:11.789
locked out.
719
00:37:12.449 --> 00:37:14.050
Would that have been your vote? Would you have given
720
00:37:14.070 --> 00:37:15.210
it to Amy Adams for Enchanted?
721
00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:18.010
I probably still would have gone Julie Christie, but Amy
722
00:37:18.070 --> 00:37:20.230
Adams would be a really strong second. I would be
723
00:37:20.269 --> 00:37:24.170
so fucking tempted. And yet, alas, Cate Blanchett.
724
00:37:24.849 --> 00:37:27.250
If Blanchett gets in there, it's just, it's one of
725
00:37:27.309 --> 00:37:32.539
those awards and these happen relatively frequently. And unfortunately they
726
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:37.000
seem to happen. Maybe, maybe it's not engendered, but like,
727
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:41.469
I think about Renee Zellweger winning for Judy, for instance, right.
728
00:37:41.550 --> 00:37:45.230
Where you just kind of get these roles or these
729
00:37:45.510 --> 00:37:49.329
movies where you're just like, okay, I gun to your head.
730
00:37:49.469 --> 00:37:51.110
I don't think most people even know she won for this.
731
00:37:51.489 --> 00:37:55.619
Blake, Blake, I just, you're, you're Australian, correct? I sure am.
732
00:37:55.699 --> 00:37:57.960
You're of Australian origin. So is Cate Blanchett. Do you
733
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.159
care to answer for Cate Blanchett's nomination for Elizabeth the
734
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.739
Golden Age as a representative of your country?
735
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.179
I can't believe it. There are so many other great
736
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:13.369
performances of hers. Yep. Of hers. That escape nomination. It
737
00:38:13.510 --> 00:38:14.570
did lead to.
738
00:38:14.469 --> 00:38:16.650
The moment at the Oscars where they play her clip
739
00:38:16.750 --> 00:38:21.190
and she makes a like, which is one of my
740
00:38:21.250 --> 00:38:22.250
favorite Oscar moments.
741
00:38:22.329 --> 00:38:22.469
So.
742
00:38:23.789 --> 00:38:28.030
Yeah i i don't know i find it baffling um
743
00:38:28.210 --> 00:38:31.530
but it was i don't know it's it's it it
744
00:38:31.550 --> 00:38:35.110
happened we have to live with it um but marion
745
00:38:35.130 --> 00:38:38.449
wins for that movie and then two years later she's
746
00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:44.500
in this um and nine as well lest we forget
747
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.980
that she is also in nine um which, I mean,
748
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:48.420
who could forget?
749
00:38:48.460 --> 00:38:50.900
And that 9 was supposed to be her follow-up, and
750
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.159
then it got bumped, so she ended up doing this
751
00:38:53.559 --> 00:38:55.260
ahead of it, and I'm glad we're talking about this
752
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.159
instead of 9, even though Phil will always, he's pitched
753
00:38:58.179 --> 00:39:00.550
me like seven miniseries where the last one is 9,
754
00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:03.909
and he's like, look, we get to talk about 9.
755
00:39:03.909 --> 00:39:05.489
Here's what I find funny about this, just to give
756
00:39:05.530 --> 00:39:07.570
a little bit of context, which is that I don't
757
00:39:07.610 --> 00:39:10.690
know if our listeners know this, but Emily can be
758
00:39:10.710 --> 00:39:13.929
a bit of a stinker. She likes to pick weird movies.
759
00:39:14.610 --> 00:39:17.099
She likes to pick Movies that are a little off
760
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:17.920
the beaten path.
761
00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:21.199
Can I defend this instead of Elizabeth the Golden Age
762
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:23.320
getting an nomination at the Academy Awards?
763
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:26.849
100%. But I bring this up just to say that
764
00:39:27.369 --> 00:39:29.989
I love her for this. I love that Emily wants to.
765
00:39:30.030 --> 00:39:33.119
do movies that people don't talk about. And then every
766
00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:37.039
now and then, I bring one up and be like,
767
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:38.840
wouldn't it be fun if we did Nine, a movie
768
00:39:38.860 --> 00:39:41.599
that straight up doesn't exist, that no one remembers? And
769
00:39:41.739 --> 00:39:44.199
Emily's like, hmm.
770
00:39:44.739 --> 00:39:48.219
The most forgotten Daniel Day-Lewis performance post his Oscar win.
771
00:39:48.219 --> 00:39:50.219
100%.
772
00:39:50.449 --> 00:39:52.840
The problem you're running into Phil is that nine is
773
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.800
musical theater. And that's the one thing I care about.
774
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.880
So I just, but that's the other, anyway, all this
775
00:39:58.940 --> 00:40:01.400
is to say someday we're covering fucking nine. It's happening,
776
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:03.179
but I mean, it's inevitable.
777
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:05.360
Yeah. Is it a promise or a threat?
778
00:40:05.900 --> 00:40:07.559
It's both. It's both.
779
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:08.800
Yeah.
780
00:40:09.579 --> 00:40:12.860
And then she's in inception in 2010. And I, she's
781
00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:14.800
also in the dark night rises where she, she gets
782
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:19.199
back together with Christian Bale. Um, I think she is
783
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:23.380
wonderful in this movie. I think that it might be
784
00:40:23.420 --> 00:40:25.579
my favorite performance of hers, quite honestly.
785
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:30.969
It's way up there for me. I think that the
786
00:40:31.030 --> 00:40:33.369
Two Days, One Night and Rust and Bone are just
787
00:40:33.429 --> 00:40:34.550
both so astonishing.
788
00:40:34.590 --> 00:40:42.360
But this is, again, top five for me, so. I'm
789
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:45.469
just glad that everyone's still trying to make Matthias Schoenaerts
790
00:40:45.489 --> 00:40:46.929
happen after Rust and Bone.
791
00:40:46.949 --> 00:40:48.309
They're really trying to make that happen.
792
00:40:48.349 --> 00:40:51.210
They've been trying to make that guy happen. I mean,
793
00:40:51.570 --> 00:40:55.079
Rust and Bone, he did the drop and that's, and
794
00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:59.329
what's that? We spoke about it, Phil. The biggest splash.
795
00:40:59.369 --> 00:41:00.289
A biggest splash.
796
00:41:00.349 --> 00:41:01.250
He's so good in that.
797
00:41:01.269 --> 00:41:02.469
He's so good in that.
798
00:41:02.530 --> 00:41:06.789
He's also a very hot guy. He's a very attractive gentleman.
799
00:41:06.969 --> 00:41:08.789
Unfathomably hot in Rust and Bone.
800
00:41:08.889 --> 00:41:11.570
And yet it's never happened. It's just never kind of
801
00:41:11.590 --> 00:41:12.130
popped for him here.
802
00:41:12.190 --> 00:41:12.489
I don't know.
803
00:41:13.030 --> 00:41:15.820
I was just thinking about what my Marion Cotillard Mount
804
00:41:15.860 --> 00:41:17.610
Rushmore would be. And because I said in my top
805
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:19.849
five and I was like, well, the Rushmore is four.
806
00:41:19.969 --> 00:41:22.210
So then your fifth is your Rushmore runner up, which
807
00:41:22.349 --> 00:41:24.489
given how many times Trump has talked about wanting to
808
00:41:24.610 --> 00:41:28.190
add himself to Mount Rushmore, you're the person just left
809
00:41:28.289 --> 00:41:31.610
off your Mount Rushmore is the Trump. So that's, that's
810
00:41:31.650 --> 00:41:32.530
how you got to think about it.
811
00:41:32.530 --> 00:41:33.829
There you go. That's how you, that's how you look
812
00:41:33.869 --> 00:41:40.000
at it. Yeah. I think that, I think that I'd
813
00:41:40.059 --> 00:41:45.099
be hard pressed to think of for Marion Gaultier, but, performances.
814
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:46.059
That I could put on my memory let me see
815
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:47.099
what I can do here.
816
00:41:48.980 --> 00:41:53.360
I'm gonna say there is a terrific 2014 movie called
817
00:41:53.420 --> 00:41:57.840
Two Days One Night by the Dardenne brothers that is
818
00:41:59.139 --> 00:42:05.070
easily my number one for her it's so strange that
819
00:42:05.289 --> 00:42:08.789
my next one is absolutely Public Enemies and Rust and
820
00:42:08.829 --> 00:42:12.010
Bone probably right there one to one And then there's
821
00:42:12.050 --> 00:42:14.570
just these other ones that she's kind of great, but
822
00:42:14.610 --> 00:42:17.929
they're all bit parts. Like she's cool and contagion for
823
00:42:17.969 --> 00:42:18.849
like five minutes.
824
00:42:18.969 --> 00:42:20.210
Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.
825
00:42:20.230 --> 00:42:24.929
Not in Paris. I really love, um, I, my only
826
00:42:24.969 --> 00:42:27.050
response to the dark night rises for everyone is that
827
00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:29.349
I love it. And I wrote a 10 things I
828
00:42:29.389 --> 00:42:32.130
hate about you poem to commemorate it, which I'm happy
829
00:42:32.150 --> 00:42:35.110
to share. Um, I love the dark night rises unabashedly
830
00:42:35.250 --> 00:42:36.099
and she's bad in it.
831
00:42:36.219 --> 00:42:40.010
Like, but she's, she's, legit bad in that movie.
832
00:42:39.570 --> 00:42:42.760
Bad but maybe is it the immigrant next would you
833
00:42:42.820 --> 00:42:44.760
say like that's a terrific.
834
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:47.820
Movie yeah i so here here's what i think i
835
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:50.679
would here's these are the five i'm choosing between rust
836
00:42:50.739 --> 00:42:52.639
and bone two days one night those are my those
837
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:54.320
are my top two days one night is one of
838
00:42:54.340 --> 00:42:56.460
the great performances.
839
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:57.840
If you've ever if you've never seen it you have
840
00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:00.219
this movie is i need to watch it i have
841
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.809
not seen it yeah um yeah So it's those two.
842
00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:08.210
Then it's just a really tight cluster of public enemies
843
00:43:09.210 --> 00:43:15.800
and Annette and the immigrant. Those three, I'm just like,
844
00:43:16.460 --> 00:43:18.900
it's two out of those three. And I wonder if
845
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:21.960
I would leave. I'd probably leave out Annette. I wonder, however,
846
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.539
if I would make public enemies to Trump.
847
00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:27.599
I just can't believe that no one's talking about Assassin's
848
00:43:27.619 --> 00:43:28.949
Creed right now. No one?
849
00:43:29.269 --> 00:43:32.349
No one i literally just recorded an episode for our
850
00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:35.510
decade project on assassin's creed and talked about how i'd
851
00:43:35.570 --> 00:43:37.469
never played the game and i quite enjoyed.
852
00:43:37.219 --> 00:43:40.659
It i always like assassin's creed the video game is
853
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:43.039
one of those things where i'm always like what if
854
00:43:43.099 --> 00:43:45.860
i just played assassin's creed yeah just like yeah why
855
00:43:45.909 --> 00:43:49.510
not i love it there's a friend there's a friend
856
00:43:49.530 --> 00:43:52.369
of mine i won't name who's like um If I,
857
00:43:52.409 --> 00:43:53.949
if I, if I named her, you, you would know
858
00:43:53.989 --> 00:43:55.570
who she is, but like, she was in one of
859
00:43:55.610 --> 00:43:59.449
the like 16, 16 writers rooms they assembled for that show.
860
00:43:59.530 --> 00:44:00.300
And like, okay.
861
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.000
Cause they kept throwing out work and then like, so yeah,
862
00:44:03.099 --> 00:44:05.699
I'm always like, I wonder if anything she did will
863
00:44:05.739 --> 00:44:06.900
survive to that.
864
00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:11.349
I feel like the last movie she did that, that exists,
865
00:44:12.090 --> 00:44:12.679
wasn't it?
866
00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:17.010
We all know how much the people loved Annette. The
867
00:44:17.030 --> 00:44:20.030
people are clamoring for more Annette.
868
00:44:20.230 --> 00:44:21.389
I don't know if it's like.
869
00:44:21.429 --> 00:44:27.110
Actually, the last movie, which is written by Liz Hanna,
870
00:44:27.429 --> 00:44:31.320
and John Colley, that feels like a movie that... Well,
871
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:34.260
in Australia, it certainly didn't feel like it existed. It
872
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:35.739
just came and went.
873
00:44:36.219 --> 00:44:38.760
It didn't really make much of an impact. I just
874
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:46.570
think that... I don't want to say she had her
875
00:44:46.730 --> 00:44:49.110
moment because that's not fair. She could very well have
876
00:44:49.150 --> 00:44:52.079
another one, but it does feel like the late 2000s,
877
00:44:52.070 --> 00:44:58.909
early 2010s, she was riding very high. And now it
878
00:44:58.929 --> 00:45:00.909
feels like maybe she's just maybe, by the way, like
879
00:45:01.090 --> 00:45:02.570
she just doesn't want to do big studio movies.
880
00:45:02.710 --> 00:45:05.530
She goes, she works in France all the time. It
881
00:45:05.570 --> 00:45:09.579
looks like they're offering her more challenging roles than the
882
00:45:09.619 --> 00:45:11.039
female lead in Doolittle.
883
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.860
So, you know, you didn't like her as Tutu in Doolittle?
884
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.510
I've actually never seen Doolittle. But if I ever get
885
00:45:19.570 --> 00:45:20.389
my threatened podcast.
886
00:45:20.429 --> 00:45:23.550
She's in Guillaume Canet's new movie, which I'm only just
887
00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:25.969
learning about called Karma, which is being released this year.
888
00:45:26.570 --> 00:45:28.239
Okay. There you go.
889
00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:31.159
Went to Cannes. So I'm like, if you haven't seen
890
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:35.320
Guillaume Carnet's Tell No One, I can strongly recommend that movie. Okay.
891
00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:40.389
Freaking rips. Great, great umbrella disc of it. I was
892
00:45:40.429 --> 00:45:44.309
lucky enough to work on. But that, I'm like, ooh, okay.
893
00:45:44.570 --> 00:45:47.539
Guillaume Carnet. That could be something. I'm going to see
894
00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:48.760
if I can get my hands on this.
895
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:52.519
Was she good in Macbeth? Yeah, it's a good movie.
896
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:55.519
With Fassbender. I never saw it, but I could see
897
00:45:55.559 --> 00:45:56.500
her as a good lady, Macbeth.
898
00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:01.360
She's good. It's an extremely stylized movie. They all clearly
899
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:02.880
had a great time working together because they all went
900
00:46:02.900 --> 00:46:04.820
and worked on Assassin's Creed, which is so bizarre. They're
901
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:07.550
all just like, oh, let's go. We did this for
902
00:46:07.610 --> 00:46:09.969
no money. Let's go get paid $ 100 million to make
903
00:46:10.030 --> 00:46:11.949
a video game adaptation and stay together.
904
00:46:12.190 --> 00:46:13.610
Yeah, it's the same director, right?
905
00:46:13.670 --> 00:46:17.530
It's Cursle. Justin Cursle, yeah. Macbeth's a fun movie. It's crazy.
906
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:21.820
It's a good, incredibly stylish adaptation.
907
00:46:22.699 --> 00:46:23.920
You mentioned this earlier, Emily.
908
00:46:24.619 --> 00:46:28.139
She's been doing some American television. She did that Apple
909
00:46:28.219 --> 00:46:33.329
TV Plus climate change show, Extrapolations, which I remember thinking
910
00:46:33.389 --> 00:46:37.190
was well-intentioned and kind of boring. But I watched all
911
00:46:37.210 --> 00:46:38.610
of it, so it was doing something. And she was
912
00:46:38.650 --> 00:46:40.780
also in season four of The Morning Show.
913
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.789
Oh, that's right. I haven't seen that season yet. Yeah. I...
914
00:46:45.820 --> 00:46:47.659
You mentioned this earlier, Emily, that the writer's strike had
915
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:50.019
an effect on the casting of this film. Johnny Depp
916
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:55.699
became free because Shantaram, the Mia Nair adaptation, went into
917
00:46:55.739 --> 00:47:00.550
turnaround because of that and he became available. Same with
918
00:47:00.590 --> 00:47:04.349
Marion Gaultier. I think they have really good chemistry in
919
00:47:04.369 --> 00:47:09.579
this film. I do think that it is to Michael
920
00:47:09.619 --> 00:47:13.780
Mann's want, it seems as though everything's kind of dialed
921
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:17.670
down for the most part like you don't feel it's
922
00:47:17.809 --> 00:47:20.590
you know he you don't have the i will find
923
00:47:20.650 --> 00:47:25.329
you in a waterfall scenes in this movie um and
924
00:47:25.389 --> 00:47:27.429
i appreciate that about it mo.
925
00:47:27.349 --> 00:47:30.389
I think the thing about mohegan's that really broke through
926
00:47:30.510 --> 00:47:33.699
is that michael mann has a romantic streak in him
927
00:47:33.909 --> 00:47:37.880
but he refuses to let it out unless the material
928
00:47:38.739 --> 00:47:42.250
demands it and mohegan's is the time when the material
929
00:47:42.289 --> 00:47:45.389
truly demands it. Like, I think it's present in Miami vice,
930
00:47:45.570 --> 00:47:48.969
most of all of his post Mohicans films, but you
931
00:47:48.989 --> 00:47:51.570
kind of have to really want to go looking for it. Um,
932
00:47:51.750 --> 00:47:54.849
and if you don't like Colin Farrell's mustache, then you're
933
00:47:54.889 --> 00:47:55.949
going to get hung up on that.
934
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:56.909
But I do.
935
00:47:56.949 --> 00:47:58.900
It will not work for you if you don't like
936
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:00.219
the mustache. That is that.
937
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:02.400
One thing that was interesting about me is I was
938
00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:05.000
at the height of my 30 rock fame at that point. Um,
939
00:48:06.090 --> 00:48:08.429
This actually doesn't scan because 30 Rock debuted that fall,
940
00:48:08.449 --> 00:48:10.349
but let's pretend I was at the height of 30
941
00:48:10.349 --> 00:48:12.530
Rock fame when they were making Miami Vice. And there
942
00:48:12.590 --> 00:48:14.989
was a cut where when Colin Farrell and Gong Li
943
00:48:15.090 --> 00:48:17.260
are like cooking up, I kind of slide in from
944
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.880
off to the side and I'm like, hey, got room.
945
00:48:19.699 --> 00:48:20.440
For a third.
946
00:48:20.500 --> 00:48:22.559
And the man was like, you don't know how to act,
947
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:24.159
do you? And I was like, fuck you, Michael.
948
00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:24.960
I won the primetime Emmy.
949
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:25.860
It is just interesting how.
950
00:48:33.889 --> 00:48:37.590
He does... There's a lot of romance in Heat. There's
951
00:48:37.670 --> 00:48:40.650
romance in Thief. It's not as though the romance isn't there.
952
00:48:41.989 --> 00:48:46.210
But Mohicans is the most sort of sweepingly romantic.
953
00:48:47.590 --> 00:48:51.389
I think it's... I re-watched Manhunter when it was in theaters.
954
00:48:51.449 --> 00:48:53.849
Hadn't seen it in a long time. Again, another movie
955
00:48:53.889 --> 00:48:55.969
that was unlocked for me. But watching it also unlocked
956
00:48:56.010 --> 00:48:58.809
for me why these movies didn't work for me until
957
00:48:58.849 --> 00:49:01.269
I was on a hormone prescription that made sense in
958
00:49:01.289 --> 00:49:01.650
my brain.
959
00:49:02.070 --> 00:49:02.670
Which is.
960
00:49:03.210 --> 00:49:06.889
The women in them are often just symbols, which I
961
00:49:06.909 --> 00:49:09.519
don't want to say is fine because it's part of
962
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:13.360
a huge problem in Hollywood. But within an individual auteur's
963
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:16.019
body of work, I'm okay with it. It's the fact
964
00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:19.730
that like so much of the industry is situated that way.
965
00:49:19.889 --> 00:49:22.130
But like Michael Mann is so often like this woman
966
00:49:22.190 --> 00:49:24.469
is a symbol of the things that you stand to lose,
967
00:49:24.530 --> 00:49:28.340
the things that are good, whatever. And Manhunter really turns
968
00:49:28.449 --> 00:49:32.199
on that idea, influencing a serial killer to some extent.
969
00:49:32.739 --> 00:49:36.780
And I think what unites Miami Vice and Public Enemies
970
00:49:36.820 --> 00:49:41.019
for me is that they allow the woman to have
971
00:49:41.739 --> 00:49:45.550
a really rich inner life that is conveyed briefly, but
972
00:49:45.570 --> 00:49:48.550
you get a sense of what she's losing, what she's
973
00:49:48.590 --> 00:49:52.050
going through, what she's fighting against, to be in a
974
00:49:52.090 --> 00:49:53.989
space with these guys in a way that you don't
975
00:49:54.130 --> 00:49:56.809
in Heat. And Mohicans is the movie that has the
976
00:49:56.849 --> 00:50:00.360
best female characters in Michael Mann.
977
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.800
My favorite character, or one of my favorite characters in Heat,
978
00:50:05.769 --> 00:50:07.489
Cause I think that she gets all the things that
979
00:50:07.590 --> 00:50:09.550
are only hinted at with the other ladies. So it's
980
00:50:09.570 --> 00:50:13.489
like Charlene, Charlene. So Val Kilmer's wife, Charlene Chihalis, because,
981
00:50:13.510 --> 00:50:17.199
and it's just this line. I'm sick of it. I'm
982
00:50:17.300 --> 00:50:20.420
sick of it. Like, like they have this exchange, her
983
00:50:20.460 --> 00:50:22.030
and Neil McCauley. And she's like, I'm sick of it.
984
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:23.440
I'm sick of it. I'm cheating on him. Cause I'm
985
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:27.949
fucking done with your bullshit life. Robbing banks with the
986
00:50:27.989 --> 00:50:31.690
boys and her entire arc in that story. And the
987
00:50:31.750 --> 00:50:35.289
kind of like the, you know, the card table I'll stay.
988
00:50:36.210 --> 00:50:38.789
you know, symbol. Like, that is, like, titanic for me.
989
00:50:38.809 --> 00:50:41.900
And I think Tuesday World, right from the outset, with
990
00:50:41.960 --> 00:50:46.480
James Caan and Thief, that, like, unfurling one another in
991
00:50:46.500 --> 00:50:48.139
front of each other, that's so great. And then, yeah,
992
00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:51.300
the Mohicans girls, Madeline Stowe at the peak of her powers, like,
993
00:50:51.340 --> 00:50:52.579
that's the one. But, yeah.
994
00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:55.179
I even think that, I think Penelope Cruz is great
995
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:56.309
in Ferrari.
996
00:50:56.329 --> 00:50:59.550
She is. That is criminal that she was not nominated,
997
00:50:59.849 --> 00:51:01.489
because she is the thing that's on fire.
998
00:51:02.010 --> 00:51:03.269
She's a beating heart of that movie.
999
00:51:03.829 --> 00:51:06.869
In that movie. Oh my God. That's the thing that
1000
00:51:06.909 --> 00:51:09.829
wakes up the dads from their naps.
1001
00:51:11.510 --> 00:51:11.750
I do.
1002
00:51:11.829 --> 00:51:14.469
I do think like, and in these, these points are
1003
00:51:14.510 --> 00:51:18.190
well taken, but like, I remember watching heat in theaters
1004
00:51:18.349 --> 00:51:20.389
for the first time when I had, I had transitioned
1005
00:51:20.449 --> 00:51:23.210
and was like, it was several years in and watching
1006
00:51:23.250 --> 00:51:24.849
and being like, Oh, this is a movie about how
1007
00:51:24.909 --> 00:51:29.230
boys are dumb. And I finally like got it. And like, I,
1008
00:51:29.329 --> 00:51:31.469
you know, it was just like an emotional register. I
1009
00:51:31.510 --> 00:51:34.769
had to appreciate from the outside. And I do think
1010
00:51:34.829 --> 00:51:37.670
that like, man is very fond of leaving women on
1011
00:51:37.710 --> 00:51:42.480
the outside of his stories. Intentionally so, always. And yet,
1012
00:51:42.539 --> 00:51:44.739
you know, when you're always on the outside of the story,
1013
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:45.579
you're kind of like, hmm.
1014
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:51.650
Okay, great. I remember hearing that the tagline for Heat was,
1015
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:54.800
before it became an LA crime saga was Boys Will
1016
00:51:54.820 --> 00:51:58.719
Be Boys. I think that that was just sort of.
1017
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:02.739
I think that if you listen to the director's commentary,
1018
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:05.159
Michael Mann is just constantly going, God, these boys are dumb.
1019
00:52:05.539 --> 00:52:09.780
Why are these boys so dumb? Yeah, I do think
1020
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:12.989
though that this film similarly has a similar theme of
1021
00:52:13.070 --> 00:52:17.150
why are these boys so dumb? In a good way,
1022
00:52:17.630 --> 00:52:22.869
but I do think that there's so much posturing in
1023
00:52:22.889 --> 00:52:24.750
this movie in the best way I don't say that
1024
00:52:24.769 --> 00:52:26.949
you know I mean in a complimentary way but I
1025
00:52:27.329 --> 00:52:32.849
like Billy Crudup's character his you know version of of J.
1026
00:52:32.860 --> 00:52:35.920
Edgar Hoover in this film I found incredibly insightful on
1027
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:39.739
this watch like it felt real it felt like it
1028
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:44.389
certainly felt like the key to Christian Bale's character I
1029
00:52:44.429 --> 00:52:49.349
don't know that I ever fully saw as clearly Purvis's
1030
00:52:49.489 --> 00:52:51.809
arc as I did this time round of a, of
1031
00:52:51.869 --> 00:52:56.070
a guy who had a moral center and then became
1032
00:52:56.110 --> 00:53:01.610
completely disrupted by Hoover and what he wanted the FBI
1033
00:53:01.630 --> 00:53:05.489
to become, which was basically just, I mean, I sadly
1034
00:53:05.550 --> 00:53:07.460
kind of what it is today in a weird way
1035
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:11.719
to have just sort of like weasels doing weasely things
1036
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:15.860
to sort of, uh, to do things that feel like
1037
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:18.300
justice is served, but really is just kind of used
1038
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:21.590
as a way to get back at people. I know
1039
00:53:21.610 --> 00:53:23.590
that that's not necessarily what it is, but it certainly
1040
00:53:23.630 --> 00:53:25.510
feels that way for J. Edgar Hoover. It feels as
1041
00:53:25.530 --> 00:53:29.550
though it was retaliatory as opposed to an actual justice
1042
00:53:31.130 --> 00:53:37.940
serving organization. I don't know enough about Marvin Purvis' life
1043
00:53:38.780 --> 00:53:40.760
outside of the fact that it seems as though what
1044
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:43.800
transpired during this investigation had a bad effect on him
1045
00:53:43.820 --> 00:53:45.559
that he eventually took his own life. I don't know
1046
00:53:45.619 --> 00:53:47.880
if it's direct correlation to this story or not or
1047
00:53:48.829 --> 00:53:50.869
He had other things going on, which I imagine he did.
1048
00:53:51.369 --> 00:53:55.489
But this time around, his story really kind of popped
1049
00:53:55.550 --> 00:53:58.449
for me and made the whole movie work a lot
1050
00:53:58.530 --> 00:54:00.909
better than it had for me in the past, for
1051
00:54:00.929 --> 00:54:01.349
what that's worth.
1052
00:54:02.349 --> 00:54:05.190
I think the baggage was exactly as you said. For
1053
00:54:05.230 --> 00:54:07.530
so many Michael Mann movies, like it happened with Miami Vice.
1054
00:54:07.550 --> 00:54:10.539
They're like, great, hate in Miami. And a few of
1055
00:54:10.619 --> 00:54:12.260
us who were Michael Mann heads at the time are like, no,
1056
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:15.840
he's doing great. an updated version of the show. Like
1057
00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:18.380
it wasn't, it's not the Ur text. It's kind of
1058
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:22.159
like Thief probably, but for a very specific part of
1059
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.880
like his life, like Miami Vice was hugely influential, just
1060
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:28.929
as influential as any of his movies on people. And
1061
00:54:28.949 --> 00:54:30.300
so people are like, oh, this is going to be heat.
1062
00:54:31.139 --> 00:54:35.230
And what I love about Purvis is, and I do
1063
00:54:35.269 --> 00:54:38.349
have to shout out for folks who do like Emily
1064
00:54:38.369 --> 00:54:41.289
and I particularly love this movie. My friend, Niall Schwartz
1065
00:54:41.329 --> 00:54:44.360
wrote this little monograph called called off the map freedom
1066
00:54:44.429 --> 00:54:46.969
control and the future in Michael Mann's public enemies, which
1067
00:54:47.050 --> 00:54:49.989
is kind of like a, a massive sort of book
1068
00:54:50.030 --> 00:54:52.949
length essay, like a series of essays about the movie.
1069
00:54:53.630 --> 00:54:58.619
And I think that the, the, the future, like the,
1070
00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:01.019
the tactile experience of it is just showing you a
1071
00:55:01.099 --> 00:55:04.590
juncture in history where someone is completely outmoded and they
1072
00:55:04.619 --> 00:55:08.489
have a death drive to like conclude their story. And
1073
00:55:08.510 --> 00:55:10.469
then you've got Purvis who is like a man who
1074
00:55:10.530 --> 00:55:13.610
is watching also the future race past him. Like he
1075
00:55:13.690 --> 00:55:17.289
wants to be the guy that is equipped, that has experience,
1076
00:55:17.329 --> 00:55:19.170
that goes out there, you know, that is the embodiment
1077
00:55:19.190 --> 00:55:21.150
of that. Like, man, have you ever arrested someone? Like
1078
00:55:21.190 --> 00:55:24.730
taking experience and not just the theoretical, but taking the
1079
00:55:24.769 --> 00:55:27.030
experience to go out there and hunt down these dangerous people.
1080
00:55:27.670 --> 00:55:30.139
And he's just watching all that rush past him. And
1081
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:32.179
they're both on this great, like we are at the
1082
00:55:32.260 --> 00:55:36.239
end of something that we can't control. And one of
1083
00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:39.940
them is, driving towards death and the other one is
1084
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:43.329
striving to prevent it for other people. And I just
1085
00:55:43.409 --> 00:55:47.130
think that, yeah, that they, both these stories, but both
1086
00:55:47.170 --> 00:55:50.510
of them, the way that they interact with Billy, who's
1087
00:55:50.530 --> 00:55:55.010
Marion Cotillard's character is how the movie hangs together emotionally.
1088
00:55:55.130 --> 00:55:58.739
And the crescendo, the emotional crescendo of the movie is
1089
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:03.179
centered on her. Like that's what's so outstanding. And especially
1090
00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:03.659
the climax.
1091
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:06.119
Yeah. And to your point too, you know, you have this,
1092
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:10.610
this horrible sort of motion moment in the movie where, um,
1093
00:56:10.889 --> 00:56:14.210
Billy is being beaten in an interrogation by, you know,
1094
00:56:14.230 --> 00:56:19.460
by a shitty FBI agent. And it's Christian that kind
1095
00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:22.940
of comes in, stops the situation is the one that,
1096
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:24.960
you know, carries her to the bathroom, but the one
1097
00:56:24.980 --> 00:56:27.420
that shows her the respect that she obviously deserves as
1098
00:56:27.460 --> 00:56:32.130
a human being. Um, that does feel very much like
1099
00:56:32.190 --> 00:56:34.570
sort of a fulcrum point in the movie or certainly
1100
00:56:34.610 --> 00:56:38.090
a moment where you sort of see these two has
1101
00:56:38.170 --> 00:56:41.670
converging on her, that she is sort of the Venn
1102
00:56:41.690 --> 00:56:46.139
diagram of these two characters. Um, yeah, it's, it is
1103
00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:47.960
really interesting what you were saying, Emily, but like Billy
1104
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.940
doesn't have a lot of screen time. I mean, this
1105
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:51.760
movie is about two and a half hours long, give
1106
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:55.639
or take, and she has 10 or 15 minutes of
1107
00:56:55.659 --> 00:56:57.960
screen time. I would say something in that vicinity. Um,
1108
00:56:59.349 --> 00:57:02.349
you know, she makes the most of it because I, she,
1109
00:57:02.429 --> 00:57:05.170
first of all, she is beautiful, but she's so expressive.
1110
00:57:05.670 --> 00:57:09.949
Her face is just, it's basically the last face you
1111
00:57:09.989 --> 00:57:12.840
see in this movie for a reason. You know what
1112
00:57:12.860 --> 00:57:16.280
I mean? It is, she's just, there's so much going
1113
00:57:16.420 --> 00:57:21.440
on without her even saying dialogue. I really also love
1114
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:26.000
that Billy rejects him for all intents and purposes at
1115
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:27.840
the beginning of the film. Like she does hang out
1116
00:57:27.860 --> 00:57:30.079
with him. She goes to drinks with him, and then
1117
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:35.039
fucking ditches him basically. And admittedly sort of like falls
1118
00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:37.659
into his clutches shortly thereafter. But I do think that
1119
00:57:37.699 --> 00:57:39.610
there is sort of a push and pull there that
1120
00:57:39.650 --> 00:57:44.409
it isn't just, you know, she's not arm candy is
1121
00:57:44.429 --> 00:57:47.070
basically what I'm getting at. There's, there's much more independence and,
1122
00:57:47.269 --> 00:57:50.900
and all of that to her character. I do think
1123
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:52.699
it's funny, Emily, that we, a couple of weeks ago
1124
00:57:52.780 --> 00:57:56.519
talked about the black Dahlia, the brine device.
1125
00:57:57.260 --> 00:57:59.420
Who was that for? Can you remind me who that
1126
00:57:59.460 --> 00:57:59.780
was for?
1127
00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:01.539
Hilary Swank's second Oscar.
1128
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:03.800
Hilary Swank. Shit.
1129
00:58:06.139 --> 00:58:06.360
Yes.
1130
00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:07.570
Wow.
1131
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:11.670
Hilary Swank's follow-up to her second Academy Award for Billion
1132
00:58:11.690 --> 00:58:16.309
Dollar Baby. You know, a mess of a movie, which
1133
00:58:16.349 --> 00:58:19.730
I'm sure, Blake, you can attest, not one of Brandon
1134
00:58:19.789 --> 00:58:21.030
Palmer's great works.
1135
00:58:21.449 --> 00:58:22.170
It's not.
1136
00:58:22.429 --> 00:58:25.630
It's really horrific. A big hit for this gal.
1137
00:58:25.909 --> 00:58:30.219
No. Yeah. But it is just interesting because obviously both
1138
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:32.960
these films take place relatively close to one another in
1139
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:38.179
terms of time period. And it is just interesting how
1140
00:58:39.269 --> 00:58:41.730
I think this movie, and yes, we've discussed that this
1141
00:58:41.769 --> 00:58:45.110
movie was successful, but I do think that audiences not
1142
00:58:45.170 --> 00:58:47.329
being as enamored with this film has a lot to
1143
00:58:47.349 --> 00:58:50.679
do with the fact that they expect movies in this
1144
00:58:50.739 --> 00:58:53.539
period to look that way. They expect it to look
1145
00:58:53.579 --> 00:58:55.420
like The Black Dahlia. They expect it to look like
1146
00:58:55.460 --> 00:58:59.280
Road to Perdition. And this movie is just not catering
1147
00:58:59.340 --> 00:59:01.239
to that in really kind of any way.
1148
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:05.070
Can I just say, I may have heard the sentence
1149
00:59:05.170 --> 00:59:07.690
in my life, wow, I really would like my movie
1150
00:59:07.730 --> 00:59:10.900
to look like Road to Perdition. i can almost guarantee
1151
00:59:10.940 --> 00:59:14.860
you that no human being ever has said wow i
1152
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:18.199
really wish my movie looked like brian de palma's the
1153
00:59:18.219 --> 00:59:23.239
black dahlia you've said it about every other department that.
1154
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:27.550
Movie was nominated for best cinematography I hate to be
1155
00:59:27.590 --> 00:59:29.130
the one to break it to you, Blake.
1156
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:31.059
So we all remember Brian De Palma's The Black Dahlia,
1157
00:59:31.079 --> 00:59:33.239
but there was a movie you mentioned right before that, Blake.
1158
00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:35.860
What was that one? I don't think I've ever heard
1159
00:59:35.900 --> 00:59:37.019
of it. Oh, you've never heard of it?
1160
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:37.980
Oh, The Road to Perdition?
1161
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:38.960
Oh, yeah.
1162
00:59:39.019 --> 00:59:42.210
Interesting. Every time I make a joke about not remembering
1163
00:59:42.250 --> 00:59:44.730
Road to Perdition, somebody online gets very mad.
1164
00:59:44.750 --> 00:59:45.230
Very upset.
1165
00:59:45.250 --> 00:59:47.690
They're like, this is one of the great movies. What's
1166
00:59:47.710 --> 00:59:48.170
wrong with you?
1167
00:59:49.030 --> 00:59:51.079
It falls out of my brain. What can I say?
1168
00:59:51.099 --> 00:59:54.800
My Hanks Rushmore's got Da Vinci code on it.
1169
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:55.519
It doesn't actually.
1170
00:59:56.179 --> 01:00:00.800
I just think that when this movie is in the
1171
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:06.449
action pocket, if you will, when I think about the
1172
01:00:06.989 --> 01:00:09.280
lodge sequence, forgive me, I'm forgetting the name of it.
1173
01:00:09.369 --> 01:00:11.929
It was something Bohemia or something like that. Little Bohemia Lodge.
1174
01:00:11.949 --> 01:00:19.960
Holy fuck, man. First of all, obviously, I don't know
1175
01:00:20.019 --> 01:00:23.099
if they're firing actual bullets, but it wouldn't surprise me
1176
01:00:23.139 --> 01:00:23.480
if they were.
1177
01:00:23.500 --> 01:00:25.739
You can bet your bottom dollar that Michael Mann had
1178
01:00:25.780 --> 01:00:27.139
them shooting Tommy Guts.
1179
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:31.179
Because it sounds fucking crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And the
1180
01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:35.360
flashes off of them, I mean, it is truly fucking incredible.
1181
01:00:35.409 --> 01:00:39.250
That entire, that whole sequence, that whole ambush on Little
1182
01:00:39.269 --> 01:00:43.050
Bohemia is the best action sequence of the film, followed
1183
01:00:43.090 --> 01:00:45.769
by the chase scene, which is also just fucking awesome,
1184
01:00:45.789 --> 01:00:48.420
where you've got Christian Bale hanging off of the car
1185
01:00:48.440 --> 01:00:50.880
with a tommy gun yeah.
1186
01:00:51.219 --> 01:00:55.150
That's like that's like robert rodriguez desperado levels of like
1187
01:00:55.489 --> 01:01:00.449
sexual arousal you're like him just you're like wow this
1188
01:01:00.489 --> 01:01:05.329
movie actually fully rips no one can ever tell me otherwise.
1189
01:01:05.050 --> 01:01:07.969
It really really does it is so it is just
1190
01:01:08.010 --> 01:01:10.889
fascinating to me that like having watched the black dahlia
1191
01:01:10.929 --> 01:01:17.130
which is not good and not not really sort of exciting.
1192
01:01:17.289 --> 01:01:21.769
Can we call it not good, though? Because, as I recall,
1193
01:01:22.130 --> 01:01:24.750
someone on this podcast thought it was fine.
1194
01:01:26.469 --> 01:01:26.909
Okay.
1195
01:01:27.869 --> 01:01:29.130
Emily did say it was fine.
1196
01:01:30.780 --> 01:01:33.380
I had fun with it. In a way that, like,
1197
01:01:33.389 --> 01:01:34.699
you know.
1198
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:38.099
Emily, having fun with the Black Dahlia?
1199
01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:38.860
Oh, yeah.
1200
01:01:39.619 --> 01:01:45.940
I mean, Aaron Eckhart. Scarlett? Whatever Scarlett's doing.
1201
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:46.920
Josh?
1202
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.170
That trio of, I have no idea what they're doing.
1203
01:01:50.329 --> 01:01:53.969
You're forgetting Fiona Shaw, who's just chewing the cedary.
1204
01:01:53.989 --> 01:01:57.769
Fiona Shaw's having a blast. Hilary Swank is like channeling
1205
01:01:58.909 --> 01:02:03.460
all of her queer energy in extremely odd directions. It's
1206
01:02:03.860 --> 01:02:06.300
like everyone in that movie's making choices.
1207
01:02:06.420 --> 01:02:08.679
I love she's firing it. It's like, whoa.
1208
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:13.099
Yeah that's just you know it just really i think
1209
01:02:13.139 --> 01:02:15.539
that it's one of those movies we all remember.
1210
01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:17.570
And love we all remember it's.
1211
01:02:17.250 --> 01:02:18.929
Like yeah we all remember where we were.
1212
01:02:22.750 --> 01:02:25.389
But it is just funny to me that like it
1213
01:02:25.429 --> 01:02:28.610
doesn't exist no one talks about the black dahlia it
1214
01:02:28.650 --> 01:02:31.030
really has no sort of you know um.
1215
01:02:33.010 --> 01:02:36.670
And also how, you know, it's an Elroy novel. It's
1216
01:02:36.710 --> 01:02:40.170
Brian De Palma. That's the crazy thing. It's like, how?
1217
01:02:40.230 --> 01:02:43.230
It's crazy. How did we get here? I mean, so
1218
01:02:43.250 --> 01:02:45.050
you bring up the book of Black Dahlia. So it
1219
01:02:45.090 --> 01:02:47.690
is worth noting that this is based on a book,
1220
01:02:47.769 --> 01:02:51.230
Brian Burroughs' 2004 nonfiction book. He was doing a ton
1221
01:02:51.269 --> 01:02:53.650
of research for this book and decided that he wanted
1222
01:02:53.670 --> 01:02:58.820
to end up creating a miniseries. HBO says, great. uh
1223
01:02:58.989 --> 01:03:01.460
deniro's tribeca productions gets involved he starts to write the
1224
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:06.159
screenplay he has no experience writing a screenplay uh realized
1225
01:03:06.199 --> 01:03:08.019
that his drafts are very bad decides he's just going
1226
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:10.340
to write it as a non-fiction book book is a
1227
01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:15.559
big hit um basically it goes back out after hbo
1228
01:03:16.179 --> 01:03:18.840
drops the rights it goes out as a movie michael
1229
01:03:18.860 --> 01:03:20.480
mann picks it up he wants to do it with
1230
01:03:20.500 --> 01:03:25.789
dicaprio And then Burrow apparently after three years was like,
1231
01:03:25.869 --> 01:03:27.769
I guess this movie isn't happening. And that's when DiCaprio
1232
01:03:27.809 --> 01:03:30.670
eventually leaves the project to do Shutter Island with Scorsese.
1233
01:03:33.090 --> 01:03:35.250
It is kind of wacky that HBO didn't want to
1234
01:03:35.269 --> 01:03:35.670
make this.
1235
01:03:36.429 --> 01:03:39.769
I agree. They do make Boardwalk Empire eventually.
1236
01:03:39.869 --> 01:03:42.429
They kind of do with Boardwalk Empire, which is just
1237
01:03:42.469 --> 01:03:43.829
like immediately like.
1238
01:03:45.250 --> 01:03:47.389
This, the TV show.
1239
01:03:47.829 --> 01:03:48.110
Yes.
1240
01:03:48.630 --> 01:03:51.639
How do we feel about Boardwalk Empire? That feels germane
1241
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:53.820
to this discussion. That's not me doing too much of
1242
01:03:53.860 --> 01:03:54.420
a tangent.
1243
01:03:54.679 --> 01:03:59.679
No, you would. I like Boardwalk Empire, but I'll say that.
1244
01:04:00.469 --> 01:04:03.809
And I love Steve Buscemi as an actor or Buscemi.
1245
01:04:04.070 --> 01:04:07.429
I never know how to pronounce it. You can't hang
1246
01:04:07.469 --> 01:04:09.710
the show on him, unfortunately. Like, I don't I don't
1247
01:04:09.769 --> 01:04:14.510
actually think that he has the sort of. He just
1248
01:04:14.550 --> 01:04:20.510
doesn't have the the. leading man charisma that's necessary to
1249
01:04:20.590 --> 01:04:21.929
hang an hbo show.
1250
01:04:21.889 --> 01:04:24.659
On i think i was just when i put the
1251
01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:27.539
cavity i think i've only seen a season actually it's
1252
01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:30.300
the one i didn't finish yeah it's kind of like
1253
01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:36.230
a oh yeah like and that kind of Australia sucked
1254
01:04:36.289 --> 01:04:39.070
for the longest time with like the availability of HBO.
1255
01:04:39.090 --> 01:04:41.400
You had to have like a cable subscription for a
1256
01:04:41.469 --> 01:04:44.980
ridiculous package that was completely overpriced and dumb for a
1257
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.460
long time. So often a lot of HBO fans in Oz,
1258
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:49.780
like literally waited until it was airing. And then like
1259
01:04:49.820 --> 01:04:52.079
two minutes later, it was out on DVD or if
1260
01:04:52.099 --> 01:04:53.900
you're lucky enough, Blu-ray. So you would just go out
1261
01:04:53.940 --> 01:04:56.739
and buy a whole season. I did that with Deadwood.
1262
01:04:56.800 --> 01:04:59.610
Like I, there were two seasons of Deadwood out. Hadn't
1263
01:04:59.829 --> 01:05:02.769
heard of it. Watched one season on a Saturday after
1264
01:05:02.809 --> 01:05:05.719
picking it up was brilliant. at the shop opening the
1265
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:07.860
next morning to buy the second season so I could
1266
01:05:07.880 --> 01:05:09.469
take over and do the next day and watch it.
1267
01:05:09.980 --> 01:05:12.019
And Bulwark Empire was one of those. I watched a
1268
01:05:12.179 --> 01:05:14.400
season that I was kind of like, huh, okay, I
1269
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:17.059
might pick that up. And I say that with no offense.
1270
01:05:17.119 --> 01:05:19.840
It just didn't grab me enough to go back a
1271
01:05:19.880 --> 01:05:20.340
second time.
1272
01:05:20.679 --> 01:05:22.139
It is very handsome.
1273
01:05:22.579 --> 01:05:23.000
Oh, it is.
1274
01:05:23.460 --> 01:05:26.039
And I think it got better as it went. I
1275
01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:28.159
think like its best season was season four.
1276
01:05:28.940 --> 01:05:29.519
Part of what.
1277
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:33.780
Happened was they realized that, What makes the show work
1278
01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:40.909
is if Nucky, the Buscemi character, has someone to play
1279
01:05:41.030 --> 01:05:44.750
off of who is like, has all that charisma. And
1280
01:05:44.789 --> 01:05:48.090
so you spend the whole season going, why is the
1281
01:05:48.110 --> 01:05:50.179
show not about Jeffrey Wright? Why is this show not
1282
01:05:50.219 --> 01:05:53.500
about Bobby Cannavale? And, like, then it's, like, getting you
1283
01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:58.840
to ask interesting questions about storytelling and how these things function. And, like, Buscemi's, like,
1284
01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:01.880
a strong enough actor that he can retreat into supporting
1285
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:05.019
when he needs to in a way that benefits the project.
1286
01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:07.420
But it definitely was, like, yeah.
1287
01:06:07.860 --> 01:06:08.260
It really.
1288
01:06:08.980 --> 01:06:11.070
One thing that has aged well about that show for
1289
01:06:11.110 --> 01:06:15.949
me is now everybody in the world in power is
1290
01:06:16.010 --> 01:06:17.130
kind of Nucky Thompson.
1291
01:06:17.630 --> 01:06:17.829
So.
1292
01:06:18.570 --> 01:06:20.590
The thing about it that didn't play at the time,
1293
01:06:20.650 --> 01:06:22.510
I'm now like, well, that was prescient, you know?
1294
01:06:23.110 --> 01:06:25.269
I think that, I mean, I think it's an interesting show.
1295
01:06:25.289 --> 01:06:29.010
I think that, you know, Scorsese directing the pilot, obviously it's,
1296
01:06:29.139 --> 01:06:31.480
it's one of the, he doesn't really work in that
1297
01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:34.860
time period that much outside of your, your love for
1298
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:36.440
New York, New York, Emily. I'm trying to think of
1299
01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:41.039
other sort of things that he did around that time period.
1300
01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:42.780
Yeah.
1301
01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:44.559
It's very well.
1302
01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:51.369
The closest might be. gangs does gangs brush close wait
1303
01:06:51.409 --> 01:06:54.190
what's that there is at the very end of new
1304
01:06:54.230 --> 01:06:56.030
york there is a scene that goes through 150 years
1305
01:06:56.110 --> 01:06:56.610
it is.
1306
01:06:58.289 --> 01:07:01.630
Partially in the 1920s it's.
1307
01:07:01.570 --> 01:07:04.000
Just it's just interesting i mean listen i i think
1308
01:07:04.059 --> 01:07:07.739
that um i i i appreciate that show i think
1309
01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:09.619
you're right emily once they figured out the sort of
1310
01:07:09.639 --> 01:07:12.760
uh you know the justified model if you will of
1311
01:07:12.860 --> 01:07:17.130
having a a a season long villain to play off
1312
01:07:17.230 --> 01:07:18.989
of the show kind of finds its footing a little
1313
01:07:19.010 --> 01:07:20.309
bit more, but it's.
1314
01:07:20.250 --> 01:07:24.150
Just that era where everyone was like trying to capture
1315
01:07:24.190 --> 01:07:26.690
the Sopranos and the show that actually took off was
1316
01:07:26.730 --> 01:07:28.380
game of Thrones, which was a show that was like,
1317
01:07:28.409 --> 01:07:30.860
we're going to do some crazy fucking shit in every episode.
1318
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:34.380
So you better tune in, you better sit down. And, uh,
1319
01:07:34.420 --> 01:07:37.750
you know, now we're trying to escape that model. and
1320
01:07:37.909 --> 01:07:38.929
having a fun time.
1321
01:07:38.829 --> 01:07:41.409
Having a great time doing it um good time michael
1322
01:07:41.429 --> 01:07:43.989
man talked about how um when they were shooting the
1323
01:07:44.130 --> 01:07:47.809
little bohemia lodge they shot it on uh april 22nd
1324
01:07:47.849 --> 01:07:49.250
when one of the crew members pointed out that that
1325
01:07:49.269 --> 01:07:51.969
was the actual anniversary of the actual shootout which i
1326
01:07:52.010 --> 01:07:55.380
think is amazing that's um i also.
1327
01:07:55.059 --> 01:07:56.980
Can i actually can i mention one thing i really
1328
01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:59.019
like about this movie that happens right before the little
1329
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:03.239
bohemia bit yeah yeah sioux falls south dakota mentioned They
1330
01:08:03.260 --> 01:08:03.780
mention it.
1331
01:08:03.900 --> 01:08:04.539
They do it.
1332
01:08:04.619 --> 01:08:06.880
And then they go there and things go wrong. And
1333
01:08:07.760 --> 01:08:09.820
it's not really an accurate depiction of Sioux Falls, but
1334
01:08:09.860 --> 01:08:10.380
you know what?
1335
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:11.969
I'll take it. I'll take it.
1336
01:08:12.139 --> 01:08:12.980
It's a depiction.
1337
01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:15.519
Yeah, it is a depiction.
1338
01:08:17.340 --> 01:08:20.640
Michael Mann also talks about.
1339
01:08:19.939 --> 01:08:24.210
A depiction of Sydney in Mission Impossible 2.
1340
01:08:24.210 --> 01:08:28.949
That's true. It is a depiction. Yeah. Michael Mann says
1341
01:08:28.989 --> 01:08:31.489
that Jason Clarke was one of the most talented actors
1342
01:08:31.510 --> 01:08:35.789
he's ever encountered. um i love jason clark i probably
1343
01:08:35.829 --> 01:08:38.140
really tried to make him happy make him happen for
1344
01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:39.300
a while it just didn't happen.
1345
01:08:39.079 --> 01:08:43.000
Did you did you ever watch brotherhood the like showtime show.
1346
01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:48.079
No i watch chicago code he in brother just straight
1347
01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:50.520
up ignores me i see you know chicago code's fine
1348
01:08:50.619 --> 01:08:53.449
it's fine but he and brotherhood is mesmerizing that show
1349
01:08:53.489 --> 01:08:57.069
is a little like a little too cerebral you know
1350
01:08:57.090 --> 01:08:59.250
just a little bit too much like we're just it's
1351
01:08:59.310 --> 01:09:02.020
just kind of of burbling under the surf but he
1352
01:09:02.119 --> 01:09:05.399
is astonishing in that show I get why people were
1353
01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:06.840
like well he's the guy.
1354
01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:09.079
He's the guy and you know what we should do
1355
01:09:09.140 --> 01:09:11.000
more with him we should do more with him he
1356
01:09:11.020 --> 01:09:12.680
was great in Oppenheimer.
1357
01:09:12.359 --> 01:09:15.880
He is cuckolded a lot on film it seems like
1358
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:16.859
that he seems to be.
1359
01:09:16.840 --> 01:09:21.329
Laughing I dare say that in Oppenheimer he gave a
1360
01:09:21.350 --> 01:09:23.729
nuclear performance. Oh!
1361
01:09:25.970 --> 01:09:28.449
Apparently, Dillinger in this film.
1362
01:09:29.090 --> 01:09:32.090
Jason Clarke is great in the... I just have to
1363
01:09:32.130 --> 01:09:34.460
look it up because I don't want to bollocks the name.
1364
01:09:35.060 --> 01:09:39.000
Jason Clarke was in the final freaking movie.
1365
01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:40.479
Oh, God.
1366
01:09:40.579 --> 01:09:42.960
The Kane Mutiny Court Martial. In 2023, which is immediately
1367
01:09:42.979 --> 01:09:43.720
following Oppenheimer. And he is.
1368
01:09:48.539 --> 01:09:50.640
Fucking excellent.
1369
01:09:51.319 --> 01:09:52.119
He's a great actor.
1370
01:09:52.300 --> 01:09:55.699
A performance of a lifetime in that movie. Holy hell
1371
01:09:55.760 --> 01:09:58.060
is it good. So if you haven't watched it, check
1372
01:09:58.100 --> 01:10:00.689
it out. Kiefer Sutherland also crushes in that movie.
1373
01:10:00.829 --> 01:10:04.229
Really great. I mean, Jason Clarke is fantastic in this film.
1374
01:10:04.409 --> 01:10:08.109
His death scene is tremendous. I mean, it's, it is,
1375
01:10:08.329 --> 01:10:12.180
he's really, really good in this movie. Um, In this movie,
1376
01:10:12.260 --> 01:10:16.560
Dillinger fools three prison guards with a wooden gun, but
1377
01:10:16.600 --> 01:10:21.010
in reality, he fooled 17. Which I think is fucking incredible. Wow.
1378
01:10:21.670 --> 01:10:24.770
I just, I think that's amazing. Like, when he beats
1379
01:10:24.810 --> 01:10:26.350
three guys with a wooden gun in the movie, you're
1380
01:10:26.369 --> 01:10:29.770
just like, all right, really? And then you're like, oh, actually,
1381
01:10:29.770 --> 01:10:33.529
17 of them. There's other things that they kind of
1382
01:10:33.550 --> 01:10:39.770
played around with. Channing Tatum plays Charles Floyd, who gets shot.
1383
01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:43.260
He actually died after Dillinger. So like they did play
1384
01:10:43.279 --> 01:10:48.590
with time a little bit. But it's a great sequence
1385
01:10:48.939 --> 01:10:53.289
in the apple orchard when he takes him down. Yeah,
1386
01:10:53.409 --> 01:10:56.390
it's just the bank robbery stuff is rules. There's that
1387
01:10:56.489 --> 01:10:59.069
amazing shot of them in the black jackets from behind
1388
01:10:59.149 --> 01:11:03.180
coming up into the bank. That's just like, it just rules.
1389
01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:06.680
There's one question I have. There's one inexplicable shot in
1390
01:11:06.720 --> 01:11:10.090
Public Enemies, and it's where John Dillinger, a.k.a. Johnny Depp,
1391
01:11:10.229 --> 01:11:15.130
is jumping over the bank thing, and they do that digital... Now,
1392
01:11:15.550 --> 01:11:18.789
the digital face covering, like, you understand it when it's
1393
01:11:18.829 --> 01:11:22.229
a stuntman playing James Bond driving a motorbike over a
1394
01:11:22.270 --> 01:11:27.479
Turkish market on ancient buildings where you could most certainly
1395
01:11:27.500 --> 01:11:31.920
die if you crash. Why jumping over a bench could
1396
01:11:31.979 --> 01:11:36.890
Johnny Depp not do that? Like, it's just a bench. Like,
1397
01:11:36.909 --> 01:11:37.390
what are we doing?
1398
01:11:37.409 --> 01:11:40.689
And it always looks bad. It never looks good. Whenever
1399
01:11:40.729 --> 01:11:44.449
they do the face replacement stuff, it never looks good. But, yeah.
1400
01:11:45.430 --> 01:11:48.550
Giovanni Ribisi's in this movie, Emily, playing a twitchy guy
1401
01:11:48.569 --> 01:11:53.949
with glasses. It's a real stretch for him. He's also
1402
01:11:53.989 --> 01:11:57.829
in Avatar this same year with Stephen Lang. Oh.
1403
01:11:59.510 --> 01:12:03.449
Let's do just... You know what? For some reason, this
1404
01:12:03.489 --> 01:12:06.180
is anti-Italian prejudice on my part, I must admit. I
1405
01:12:06.220 --> 01:12:10.119
always like Giovanni Ribisi and Vincent D'Onofrio. I just always
1406
01:12:10.140 --> 01:12:11.260
kind of put them.
1407
01:12:11.380 --> 01:12:13.159
In the same box.
1408
01:12:13.180 --> 01:12:14.279
Very different performers.
1409
01:12:14.619 --> 01:12:16.680
Yeah, different energies.
1410
01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:21.979
Yeah, what if we did Ribonfrio?
1411
01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:25.520
You can look up that miniseries if you'd like.
1412
01:12:25.539 --> 01:12:27.300
Yeah, you guys keep talking. I'm going to do the thing.
1413
01:12:27.380 --> 01:12:28.020
I think that.
1414
01:12:29.310 --> 01:12:32.029
I love all of the I don't I don't know
1415
01:12:32.050 --> 01:12:34.029
if you would call it courtship, but sort of the
1416
01:12:34.100 --> 01:12:40.359
way that John and Billy meet. I love their her
1417
01:12:40.460 --> 01:12:43.479
forcing him to dance. He's clearly uncomfortable doing it. You're
1418
01:12:43.520 --> 01:12:45.859
immediately seeing him on his back foot and you're seeing
1419
01:12:45.899 --> 01:12:48.859
a guy who's, you know, you're just seeing a little
1420
01:12:48.880 --> 01:12:51.180
bit of that energy, which I really appreciate. And the
1421
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:54.710
scene they have the restaurant scene. where they're talking about
1422
01:12:54.770 --> 01:12:58.069
class warfare and freedom and all that sort of stuff.
1423
01:12:58.210 --> 01:13:00.609
And you're thinking about how that plays into the great
1424
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:04.180
depression that's happening at the time. Like it's all just really,
1425
01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:09.180
really rich stuff that I think just doesn't get enough love. Like,
1426
01:13:09.239 --> 01:13:10.619
I think this would be so much richer text.
1427
01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:14.380
Yeah. It's really rich. I love that scene too, because
1428
01:13:15.939 --> 01:13:19.600
it's like perfect form and function, right? Like the, the
1429
01:13:19.659 --> 01:13:22.670
content of the conversation is so rich, but the, the
1430
01:13:22.810 --> 01:13:26.369
stark kind of hospital marble white of the room and
1431
01:13:26.409 --> 01:13:30.310
all these people in these beautiful ornate black outfits. And
1432
01:13:30.329 --> 01:13:33.439
then you see Billy's like splash of red and it's got,
1433
01:13:34.100 --> 01:13:36.979
it's not frayed, but you can see the threads, you know,
1434
01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:40.939
it doesn't appear to be as, you know, perfectly manicured
1435
01:13:40.960 --> 01:13:42.619
and designed. You see how people are talking. And then
1436
01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:45.939
you also see true, like, I don't give a fuck
1437
01:13:46.119 --> 01:13:50.050
energy in, in Debs Dillinger. That's my favorite quality of
1438
01:13:50.090 --> 01:13:52.289
him is like, you know, the great line of like,
1439
01:13:53.109 --> 01:13:54.710
you know, we're only thinking about today. Like we're not
1440
01:13:54.729 --> 01:13:58.470
thinking about tomorrow or something to that effect. It's like, yeah,
1441
01:13:58.510 --> 01:14:00.369
we're having too much fun today to think about tomorrow.
1442
01:14:00.409 --> 01:14:02.750
Like that's his whole thing is like right now is
1443
01:14:02.810 --> 01:14:05.739
my whole life and is my whole world in this moment.
1444
01:14:05.819 --> 01:14:08.199
And there is literally nothing for me. I know where
1445
01:14:08.239 --> 01:14:11.399
it's going. And I, I respect the hell out of that.
1446
01:14:12.439 --> 01:14:15.100
So it'll take the better part of a year. And
1447
01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:15.819
most of the.
1448
01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:19.619
Movies are ones people haven't heard of, but Robofrio is coming.
1449
01:14:20.079 --> 01:14:24.430
Oh, but your way guys get ready. 2028. I also
1450
01:14:24.489 --> 01:14:28.789
think that this movie, and not to belabor this point,
1451
01:14:28.829 --> 01:14:30.729
but I think one of the reasons that this movie
1452
01:14:30.770 --> 01:14:35.380
perhaps didn't completely hit with audiences is it is the
1453
01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:38.579
attention to detail when it comes to the production design
1454
01:14:39.180 --> 01:14:43.340
is immaculate, but man is not showing it off. Do
1455
01:14:43.359 --> 01:14:46.130
you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. I think about the
1456
01:14:46.770 --> 01:14:50.270
room with all the phone lines, with all the lights.
1457
01:14:50.329 --> 01:14:53.140
It's fucking exquisite. And then the bookies with all the
1458
01:14:53.189 --> 01:14:58.239
phones and the cables hanging from... But it's not sexy.
1459
01:14:58.359 --> 01:15:01.800
It's not showy. It's not like... And that's what I
1460
01:15:01.840 --> 01:15:03.739
think is great about this movie, but part of why
1461
01:15:03.760 --> 01:15:06.670
I think the audience might not have maybe embraced it
1462
01:15:06.710 --> 01:15:09.890
to the same extent. But all that shit just looks...
1463
01:15:09.750 --> 01:15:12.369
I honestly wanted... I just paused and just wanted to
1464
01:15:12.529 --> 01:15:15.909
look at... All this creation is just incredible.
1465
01:15:16.270 --> 01:15:17.670
And the plane landing.
1466
01:15:17.750 --> 01:15:18.029
Yes.
1467
01:15:18.170 --> 01:15:20.689
The plane landing with those gigantic lights.
1468
01:15:20.829 --> 01:15:21.470
The flares.
1469
01:15:21.670 --> 01:15:25.250
The flares. I don't think there's anything. There's nothing like
1470
01:15:25.270 --> 01:15:27.770
that shot. That is like a one in a million
1471
01:15:28.569 --> 01:15:29.350
glorious shot.
1472
01:15:29.369 --> 01:15:34.180
That plane sequence is exquisite. Yeah. If I remember correctly,
1473
01:15:34.220 --> 01:15:38.779
it opens one of the trailers that came out. And
1474
01:15:38.939 --> 01:15:42.800
it's kind of monochromatic. It almost looks like newsreel footage.
1475
01:15:43.619 --> 01:15:46.739
It's just, it's, it's really, it's, it's quite, uh, it's
1476
01:15:46.779 --> 01:15:50.699
quite amazing. Stephen Graham's in this movie, Emily, um, playing
1477
01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:54.430
baby face Nelson. Uh, he, he himself quite baby faced
1478
01:15:54.489 --> 01:15:56.670
in this movie in comparison to where he is today.
1479
01:15:56.689 --> 01:16:02.170
A little bit. Um, his death is horrifying and also
1480
01:16:02.289 --> 01:16:07.100
kind of awesome. Yeah. Him just going down, pulling the
1481
01:16:07.159 --> 01:16:11.420
trigger and just the bullets and the flare. Just incredible.
1482
01:16:11.890 --> 01:16:15.229
on his knees just getting just it's fucking incredible do.
1483
01:16:15.130 --> 01:16:22.609
We think something fundamentally broke in american culture hmm yes
1484
01:16:22.770 --> 01:16:27.810
i'm thinking about the wild west and the roaring 20s
1485
01:16:27.850 --> 01:16:33.840
what a prohibition whatever criminals are like celebrities yes outlaws
1486
01:16:33.899 --> 01:16:36.739
are celebrities yes but like in kind of a like
1487
01:16:37.640 --> 01:16:42.359
anti-heroic way, you know, where it's like, well, they're... Anti-establishment, yeah. Yeah, they're, like,
1488
01:16:42.420 --> 01:16:44.720
robbing from the banks, but the banks fucking suck, man.
1489
01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:48.710
And now, I'd say we put the crooks in charge.
1490
01:16:49.069 --> 01:16:49.510
And that.
1491
01:16:49.529 --> 01:16:50.850
What a twist!
1492
01:16:50.890 --> 01:16:54.210
That has fundamentally broken something. In addition to all of
1493
01:16:54.250 --> 01:16:57.010
the ways in which it's bad to have, like, genuinely
1494
01:16:57.170 --> 01:17:01.010
awful people in charge, you, like, now the story's, like,
1495
01:17:01.050 --> 01:17:03.399
there's nowhere to go. I can't, like, watch a thing
1496
01:17:03.449 --> 01:17:05.579
about a bank robber and be like, great, good for
1497
01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:07.159
bank robbers. I mean, I can.
1498
01:17:07.180 --> 01:17:07.260
Yeah.
1499
01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:09.359
But also, you know.
1500
01:17:09.579 --> 01:17:11.300
But I would I would actually I would flip it
1501
01:17:11.340 --> 01:17:13.189
to Emily and say that, you know, as as a
1502
01:17:13.229 --> 01:17:16.789
person who, you know, we both do this, Emily, try
1503
01:17:16.810 --> 01:17:18.229
to come up with pitches, try to come up with
1504
01:17:18.250 --> 01:17:22.750
television shows. You can't really sell a legal drama right
1505
01:17:22.810 --> 01:17:27.600
now because most people don't believe justice is being served. Right.
1506
01:17:27.640 --> 01:17:30.680
Like we look at the administration currently right now and
1507
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:32.840
and we're just like they're never going to pay for
1508
01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:34.939
their crimes. Like, what are we doing?
1509
01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:35.659
Yeah.
1510
01:17:36.390 --> 01:17:39.399
It sucks. It's not great.
1511
01:17:39.560 --> 01:17:45.300
Coyote vs. Acme, which is a legal thriller. And they
1512
01:17:45.539 --> 01:17:47.039
tried to fucking kill it.
1513
01:17:48.220 --> 01:17:51.529
It kind of solves that problem by being like, well, yeah,
1514
01:17:51.550 --> 01:17:53.930
you're never going to get justice, but chasing it is
1515
01:17:53.989 --> 01:17:56.350
good anyway. But you can do that in a movie.
1516
01:17:56.510 --> 01:17:59.069
On TV, it just gets depressing.
1517
01:17:59.289 --> 01:18:02.220
It gets depressing. A legal drama is very heartbreaking.
1518
01:18:02.609 --> 01:18:04.560
That was kind of the premise of that David E.
1519
01:18:04.569 --> 01:18:06.699
Kelly show, Goliath, which I liked the first season of,
1520
01:18:06.729 --> 01:18:08.310
then never watched more. But it was kind of like, well,
1521
01:18:08.329 --> 01:18:10.569
you just got to keep going. And I was like, thanks,
1522
01:18:10.609 --> 01:18:12.109
David E. Kelly, you have a lot of money.
1523
01:18:12.869 --> 01:18:17.189
He does have a lot of money. Yeah, it is interesting.
1524
01:18:17.289 --> 01:18:21.130
That guy could have just retired on an island post-Ali McBeal.
1525
01:18:21.760 --> 01:18:26.100
And he's since made a bazillion other shows.
1526
01:18:27.779 --> 01:18:29.300
I can't wait to see what his take on the
1527
01:18:29.340 --> 01:18:31.050
woodworking miniseries is.
1528
01:18:31.090 --> 01:18:31.550
Me too.
1529
01:18:31.569 --> 01:18:33.970
It's going to be great.
1530
01:18:34.869 --> 01:18:39.090
I do think it is interesting how he always tries
1531
01:18:39.270 --> 01:18:42.189
to shoehorn some sort of a legal component into all
1532
01:18:42.189 --> 01:18:44.220
of his shows in some way. like even big little
1533
01:18:44.260 --> 01:18:48.640
lies has like nicole kibbitz character is a legal the.
1534
01:18:48.539 --> 01:18:51.420
Thing is you could put you could put a legal
1535
01:18:51.460 --> 01:18:54.279
drama into woodworking so fucking easy david e kelly you
1536
01:18:54.300 --> 01:18:56.760
can fit six legal dramas into there you.
1537
01:18:56.590 --> 01:19:01.170
Go um i yeah i mean i'm just i'm sort
1538
01:19:01.210 --> 01:19:03.350
of just looking here at any other notes that i
1539
01:19:03.390 --> 01:19:06.569
have but like i do john ortiz is great in
1540
01:19:06.590 --> 01:19:12.060
this um Bill Camp as Frank Nitti, great in this. Like,
1541
01:19:12.119 --> 01:19:12.760
this movie is stacked.
1542
01:19:12.779 --> 01:19:15.579
Carrie Mulligan is in this for, like, six seconds. Six seconds.
1543
01:19:15.699 --> 01:19:19.979
And this is before her Oscar nominations, before she's Carrie Mulligan,
1544
01:19:20.020 --> 01:19:21.500
but it's like, there's Carrie Mulligan.
1545
01:19:21.779 --> 01:19:23.500
And it's like... I mean, she's been in Pride and
1546
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:25.439
Prejudice by this point, but yes, you're not wrong.
1547
01:19:25.500 --> 01:19:28.220
Yeah, and she's also done, of course, the Doctor Who episode, Blink,
1548
01:19:28.260 --> 01:19:30.920
which is, like, really a big thing for her.
1549
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:32.979
She talks about how they shot a scene where she
1550
01:19:33.020 --> 01:19:34.510
got to make out with Johnny Depp and it didn't
1551
01:19:34.520 --> 01:19:38.210
make the cut. So there you go. She's in this
1552
01:19:38.229 --> 01:19:42.109
for five seconds, but everyone in this, it's a stacked cast.
1553
01:19:42.310 --> 01:19:44.539
There's no one playing a false note in this movie.
1554
01:19:45.279 --> 01:19:49.260
It really is unbelievable. Ortiz, the scene with Ortiz talking
1555
01:19:49.279 --> 01:19:52.039
to Dillinger about how he's bad for the bookie business
1556
01:19:52.720 --> 01:19:55.770
and that they're like, your whole shit, get it out
1557
01:19:55.779 --> 01:19:58.630
of here. We're not interested in it anymore. It's bad
1558
01:19:58.670 --> 01:19:59.210
for everybody.
1559
01:19:59.470 --> 01:20:01.390
It's a great framing. He's like, how much did you
1560
01:20:01.430 --> 01:20:02.850
make on that bank job? $ 35, 000? He's like, we make $ 110, 000
1561
01:20:02.750 --> 01:20:02.869
a day.
1562
01:20:02.909 --> 01:20:03.020
A day.
1563
01:20:08.140 --> 01:20:12.250
Every day and he's like when you do your shit
1564
01:20:12.529 --> 01:20:15.390
police start coming sniffing around our places.
1565
01:20:16.390 --> 01:20:19.510
And that's why like the the well there's two things
1566
01:20:19.569 --> 01:20:21.890
first of all the fucking scene in the movie theater
1567
01:20:22.350 --> 01:20:25.550
where the newsreel comes up and everyone pretends not to
1568
01:20:25.630 --> 01:20:26.810
see him it looks at.
1569
01:20:26.770 --> 01:20:29.460
That left it looks at that right oh shit.
1570
01:20:29.189 --> 01:20:33.140
That's fucking amazing yeah it's just it is truly truly
1571
01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:36.430
an incredible scene but after that they robbed, they attempt
1572
01:20:36.449 --> 01:20:39.529
to rob the bank in, in Emily's, uh, uh, old
1573
01:20:40.010 --> 01:20:43.829
stomping ground of Sioux Falls. Um, and they think they're
1574
01:20:43.850 --> 01:20:48.329
getting $ 800, 000. They ended up getting just shy of $ 50, 000.
1575
01:20:46.930 --> 01:20:51.149
And it just goes to show like this, this ain't
1576
01:20:51.220 --> 01:20:54.520
working anymore. Like this is, this is, uh, this, this
1577
01:20:54.579 --> 01:20:57.479
business model that we're working in is, is, uh, is not,
1578
01:20:57.579 --> 01:21:03.479
it's not great. It really is just, um, It's a
1579
01:21:03.529 --> 01:21:07.960
really smart movie that isn't too smart for its own good,
1580
01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:12.159
but also you've got to pay attention to it, if
1581
01:21:12.199 --> 01:21:16.020
that makes sense. You brought up Deadwood earlier, Blake. I
1582
01:21:16.039 --> 01:21:17.970
think that Deadwood is a show that you have to
1583
01:21:18.050 --> 01:21:20.890
give your full attention to. It's a rewarding experience if you're.
1584
01:21:20.770 --> 01:21:24.210
Willing to do that. It's not a do-the-ironing show or vacuum.
1585
01:21:24.229 --> 01:21:26.470
And this is not that kind of movie. I think
1586
01:21:26.489 --> 01:21:27.909
that a lot of people might have hoped that it
1587
01:21:27.949 --> 01:21:30.010
was going to be a more passive experience, but you've
1588
01:21:30.029 --> 01:21:33.609
really got to engage with it. The guy who gets
1589
01:21:33.770 --> 01:21:37.170
shot in the head and that they torture by pushing
1590
01:21:37.229 --> 01:21:43.850
on the bullet in his brain is fucked up. Really
1591
01:21:43.970 --> 01:21:44.430
fucked up.
1592
01:21:44.670 --> 01:21:46.899
Yeah.
1593
01:21:47.220 --> 01:21:49.600
One thing that I think is interesting in this movie
1594
01:21:49.619 --> 01:21:52.300
is that it argues sometimes the people who try to
1595
01:21:52.340 --> 01:21:56.260
capture the criminals don't do the best things themselves. Aren't
1596
01:21:56.279 --> 01:21:57.520
always the best people themselves.
1597
01:21:58.180 --> 01:22:01.840
Would you even say, Emily, that that both sides of
1598
01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:04.479
the law, that there's a moral gray zone?
1599
01:22:04.659 --> 01:22:06.710
I think there's bad people on both sides, and I
1600
01:22:06.750 --> 01:22:08.029
think there's a good gray area.
1601
01:22:08.369 --> 01:22:10.069
And I think there's good people on both sides.
1602
01:22:10.270 --> 01:22:13.229
As Donald Trump has said on many occasions, put good
1603
01:22:13.270 --> 01:22:17.010
people on both sides.
1604
01:22:17.050 --> 01:22:20.920
There's Christian Bale, and he seems like he's trying to
1605
01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:21.239
do okay.
1606
01:22:21.260 --> 01:22:22.220
He seems like he's trying to do good.
1607
01:22:23.220 --> 01:22:26.739
Can I just... I just want to determine the kind
1608
01:22:26.819 --> 01:22:32.170
of dripping sexuality that's in billy crudups and you can
1609
01:22:32.250 --> 01:22:38.819
tell him they can call me jay i just it's
1610
01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:44.000
really gross and and i love it and when i
1611
01:22:44.239 --> 01:22:47.260
i found myself after watching it i just was sitting
1612
01:22:47.340 --> 01:22:49.659
talking to myself i'm like washing the dishes and you
1613
01:22:49.699 --> 01:22:51.460
can call it you can tell him he can call
1614
01:22:51.500 --> 01:22:54.449
me J-E. And my wife's like, what are you saying?
1615
01:22:54.760 --> 01:22:56.420
I'm like, leave me alone.
1616
01:22:56.779 --> 01:22:58.100
What's the subtext?
1617
01:22:58.140 --> 01:23:01.060
Leave me alone with my Billy Crudup impression while I'm
1618
01:23:01.140 --> 01:23:03.140
slathering my hands. Okay?
1619
01:23:04.020 --> 01:23:09.100
He's, like, definitely got, like, he's leaning into the J.
1620
01:23:09.159 --> 01:23:10.420
Edgar queer energy.
1621
01:23:10.640 --> 01:23:11.399
Yeah.
1622
01:23:11.439 --> 01:23:14.720
But it feels, he, like, overshoots a little bit. It's
1623
01:23:14.760 --> 01:23:16.659
a tiny bit. And then J.
1624
01:23:16.739 --> 01:23:19.279
Edgar Hoover quit the FBI to be the center square
1625
01:23:19.340 --> 01:23:20.180
on Hollywood Square.
1626
01:23:20.220 --> 01:23:21.420
Like, that's where he lands.
1627
01:23:22.369 --> 01:23:24.390
I love it. To be clear. Yeah.
1628
01:23:24.529 --> 01:23:29.909
And it also ruined the, like, you're like 15 seconds
1629
01:23:29.970 --> 01:23:32.189
into the Eastwood, DiCaprio, J.
1630
01:23:32.220 --> 01:23:32.489
Edgar.
1631
01:23:32.529 --> 01:23:36.300
And I'm like, I want none of this. None of it.
1632
01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:38.439
I want none of it. And I would like all
1633
01:23:38.460 --> 01:23:40.159
of what Billy Crudup was doing in that movie. It's
1634
01:23:40.180 --> 01:23:42.279
kind of that, there's a magical thing that happens with
1635
01:23:42.319 --> 01:23:46.500
Michael Mann, sort of historic, historical dramas where like certain characters,
1636
01:23:46.880 --> 01:23:48.960
they pop and they pop so hard. And like, even
1637
01:23:49.020 --> 01:23:51.140
in amongst the world or in a world that exists now,
1638
01:23:52.189 --> 01:23:53.520
and it's the other movie that you were talking about
1639
01:23:53.539 --> 01:23:57.600
with Ali in a world where Spike Lee's Malcolm X
1640
01:23:57.640 --> 01:24:00.859
already exists. Like the Malcolm X and Ali is so
1641
01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:03.560
riveting and such an important part of the catalyst of
1642
01:24:03.659 --> 01:24:07.800
like how Michael Mann defines Ali's identity before and after
1643
01:24:07.840 --> 01:24:10.840
his death. But you're like, this is just, I could
1644
01:24:10.899 --> 01:24:12.640
have more of this. I'm fine with it. That's why
1645
01:24:12.680 --> 01:24:15.520
there's three cuts of that movie. Um, but I, I
1646
01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:18.010
love the J Edgar stuff in this because, You know,
1647
01:24:18.050 --> 01:24:22.670
he's as slimy and gross as John Ortiz's guy who's saying,
1648
01:24:22.689 --> 01:24:24.609
you know, like, hey, we're just here to pay off
1649
01:24:24.649 --> 01:24:29.159
cops and make money. And you're a distraction. You're annoying.
1650
01:24:29.239 --> 01:24:34.279
It is. I mean, Clint Eastwood's J. Edgar is another
1651
01:24:34.319 --> 01:24:37.380
movie that I would say doesn't really exist. I don't
1652
01:24:37.420 --> 01:24:38.079
think people know.
1653
01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:40.390
About that one. And DiCaprio's publicist. You're welcome.
1654
01:24:40.399 --> 01:24:43.010
The way they like it. But it is a little
1655
01:24:43.029 --> 01:24:45.189
weird that those two didn't. It's the only movie they
1656
01:24:45.210 --> 01:24:48.039
did together. I don't know if it's a subject matter
1657
01:24:48.079 --> 01:24:50.699
problem or if it was just like, these two just
1658
01:24:50.739 --> 01:24:52.899
don't jive. Like this is just kind of a, you know,
1659
01:24:53.229 --> 01:24:53.569
water and water.
1660
01:24:53.609 --> 01:24:55.329
I think if there's one actor I can think of
1661
01:24:55.350 --> 01:25:01.670
who seems less interested in the whole Clint Eastwood, we're
1662
01:25:01.710 --> 01:25:05.569
doing one take and it's DiCaprio. DiCaprio's like, I'm just
1663
01:25:05.590 --> 01:25:07.140
getting warmed up, Clint.
1664
01:25:07.380 --> 01:25:11.199
Clint's like, we're done. We're wrapped for the day. I
1665
01:25:11.260 --> 01:25:14.699
love the moment when Billy is arrested and and uh
1666
01:25:14.779 --> 01:25:17.460
dillinger sees her and sort of the swell of everything
1667
01:25:17.479 --> 01:25:20.590
that's going on there him crying in the car afterwards
1668
01:25:21.050 --> 01:25:23.329
that that feels like i think the moment when he
1669
01:25:23.369 --> 01:25:25.630
knows he's done for like that he knows not just
1670
01:25:25.670 --> 01:25:28.750
because he's afraid that she might squeal but also just
1671
01:25:28.949 --> 01:25:31.029
he's lost it seems like the thing that he wants
1672
01:25:31.130 --> 01:25:35.109
most um lily sobieski's in this movie which i completely
1673
01:25:35.189 --> 01:25:39.579
forgot um she's in this for five seconds what's she.
1674
01:25:39.529 --> 01:25:43.600
Up to emily let's find out yeah what Emily, what's
1675
01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:44.720
Lily Sobiaski up to?
1676
01:25:47.180 --> 01:25:49.680
Stephen Lang has an incredible line when they're trying to
1677
01:25:49.720 --> 01:25:54.039
figure out which theater Dillinger's going to go to. And
1678
01:25:54.079 --> 01:25:57.100
he says, John Dillinger ain't going to a Shirley Temple movie.
1679
01:25:57.520 --> 01:25:58.079
It's just.
1680
01:25:59.619 --> 01:26:04.970
Stephen Lang fucking rules. And for real manheads, real manheads
1681
01:26:05.029 --> 01:26:09.250
know that he was in Manhunter. He was set ablaze
1682
01:26:09.850 --> 01:26:12.689
and rolled down into a car park. He was, he was,
1683
01:26:12.899 --> 01:26:15.260
it was Freddie Lowndes. He was the first Freddie Lowndes.
1684
01:26:15.600 --> 01:26:18.979
He was rolled down into that car park set ablaze.
1685
01:26:19.880 --> 01:26:22.239
And he is awesome in that movie too. And it
1686
01:26:22.319 --> 01:26:25.020
is so cool to watch those two guys together again,
1687
01:26:25.439 --> 01:26:29.140
because like Stephen Lang is just like, oh yeah, Michael,
1688
01:26:29.180 --> 01:26:32.359
like we did a movie in 86, right? It's like
1689
01:26:32.399 --> 01:26:35.029
nearly 30 years later. And he's just like, yeah, this is,
1690
01:26:35.039 --> 01:26:35.939
this is a boss.
1691
01:26:35.960 --> 01:26:36.420
Fantastic.
1692
01:26:36.460 --> 01:26:41.560
Yeah. Lili Sobieski is kind of retired. She's raising her kids.
1693
01:26:41.600 --> 01:26:43.239
She's having a nice time.
1694
01:26:43.039 --> 01:26:43.680
With her kids.
1695
01:26:44.180 --> 01:26:45.840
She gave an interview where she was like, I don't
1696
01:26:45.859 --> 01:26:47.479
want to do sexual stuff on screen because I don't
1697
01:26:47.500 --> 01:26:49.689
want to imperil my marriage. And I'm like, okay, fine.
1698
01:26:50.050 --> 01:26:51.289
Good for you, Lili. Okay.
1699
01:26:51.649 --> 01:26:55.689
Listen, as actresses I once loved who have quit the
1700
01:26:55.750 --> 01:26:58.229
industry and have given interviews where I'm like, I don't
1701
01:26:58.270 --> 01:26:59.880
know if I would have said that, but good on you.
1702
01:27:00.689 --> 01:27:02.020
Much better than Alison Lohman.
1703
01:27:02.029 --> 01:27:06.039
Yeah, Alison Lohman can not do that. That'd be great.
1704
01:27:06.100 --> 01:27:06.920
I would like her to stop doing that.
1705
01:27:06.939 --> 01:27:08.640
I don't need to know this much about your feelings
1706
01:27:08.699 --> 01:27:11.260
on your marriage, Lily Sobieski, but you know what? Good
1707
01:27:11.300 --> 01:27:11.579
for you.
1708
01:27:11.720 --> 01:27:12.220
Good for you.
1709
01:27:12.279 --> 01:27:13.819
You're doing what you need to do.
1710
01:27:14.359 --> 01:27:21.630
There are conflicting reports about whether Dillinger actually did have
1711
01:27:21.670 --> 01:27:24.329
the balls to go into the Chicago Police Department and
1712
01:27:24.409 --> 01:27:26.989
talk to the police officers and pretend as though he
1713
01:27:27.029 --> 01:27:30.949
wasn't John Dillinger. I hope it's true because it's fucking amazing.
1714
01:27:31.090 --> 01:27:36.369
It's an incredible scene. It shows not just his, his arrogance,
1715
01:27:36.489 --> 01:27:41.270
but also his wanting to tempt the gods. It seemed
1716
01:27:41.310 --> 01:27:43.609
like that was part of his, part of his whole thing.
1717
01:27:43.869 --> 01:27:47.109
You know, how far can I push this thing? And
1718
01:27:47.949 --> 01:27:50.560
he found out when he was shot in cold blood
1719
01:27:50.600 --> 01:27:53.859
outside a movie theater by the FBI. I mean, it's,
1720
01:27:53.979 --> 01:27:56.420
it is, It's a little insane that they didn't try
1721
01:27:56.460 --> 01:28:01.239
to arrest him, but they just mowed him down. Kind
1722
01:28:01.279 --> 01:28:03.350
of nuts, but I guess that was just the time.
1723
01:28:03.770 --> 01:28:06.949
Well, I mean, sometimes, and this is the thing this
1724
01:28:06.989 --> 01:28:09.250
movie is quite subtle about, sometimes the people who fight
1725
01:28:09.310 --> 01:28:10.909
crime are the real criminals.
1726
01:28:11.949 --> 01:28:14.539
They do some bad things. Subtle about it. Subtle about it.
1727
01:28:21.609 --> 01:28:26.449
No one really knows what Dillinger's final words were. Apparently
1728
01:28:26.489 --> 01:28:30.739
the guy, Winstead, who did shoot him, did lean down
1729
01:28:30.760 --> 01:28:35.060
and listen to whatever gurgled out of Dillinger's mouth in
1730
01:28:35.100 --> 01:28:39.699
his final breath. uh but i like this ending bye-bye
1731
01:28:39.840 --> 01:28:40.979
bye-bye sure.
1732
01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:42.600
Yeah i mean we all know he said listen to
1733
01:28:42.619 --> 01:28:45.279
more podcasts people.
1734
01:28:45.060 --> 01:28:47.520
Were not ready for his message no no i know
1735
01:28:47.579 --> 01:28:51.060
exactly what he said he whispered you know the theme
1736
01:28:51.119 --> 01:28:56.390
of this movie really is that's bad too sometimes the
1737
01:28:56.430 --> 01:28:58.310
cops are just as bad as the.
1738
01:28:58.229 --> 01:29:01.579
Crooks I thought his final words were just ACAB. He
1739
01:29:01.600 --> 01:29:04.739
just used one word. Yeah, he was just like, that's that.
1740
01:29:04.819 --> 01:29:09.609
He leaned down and Dillinger said, you can watch Hollywood's
1741
01:29:09.670 --> 01:29:13.289
Greatest and a selection of hits and Mubi distributes films
1742
01:29:13.329 --> 01:29:14.310
to theaters.
1743
01:29:13.949 --> 01:29:14.430
Now, too.
1744
01:29:17.409 --> 01:29:18.109
It's a great movie.
1745
01:29:18.130 --> 01:29:21.489
What was that movie that we talked about? What was
1746
01:29:21.529 --> 01:29:24.350
that movie we talked about? The movie also that didn't
1747
01:29:24.390 --> 01:29:26.130
exist during our Road to Perdition episode?
1748
01:29:26.149 --> 01:29:28.310
Beckford Schmeckler's Book of Bad Ideas?
1749
01:29:28.329 --> 01:29:34.649
Yes. Right there. Did you see how quickly she had that?
1750
01:29:35.630 --> 01:29:41.600
Firstly, I'm impressed. Secondly, they were his lawsuits.
1751
01:29:42.100 --> 01:29:46.159
He was just promoting that movie.
1752
01:29:46.279 --> 01:29:49.500
It lives in my brain because I randomly stumbled upon
1753
01:29:49.539 --> 01:29:53.399
a thread of people talking about me online. And of
1754
01:29:53.439 --> 01:29:55.060
course I read all of it. And there was one
1755
01:29:55.100 --> 01:29:57.390
person who was like, I like podcasts like it's the 2000s.
1756
01:29:58.380 --> 01:30:00.760
a lot, except when Emily gets off on a tangent.
1757
01:30:00.819 --> 01:30:02.779
And then just like it was six paragraphs of how
1758
01:30:02.859 --> 01:30:06.189
mad they were about me talking about Pickford Schmeckler's book
1759
01:30:06.229 --> 01:30:10.289
of bad ideas. So now I'm just like, it's just constantly,
1760
01:30:10.729 --> 01:30:12.770
every time I sit down, like every time I like
1761
01:30:12.810 --> 01:30:14.479
work on my novel, I'm like, I better not put
1762
01:30:14.539 --> 01:30:16.199
any references to Pickford Schmeckler.
1763
01:30:16.920 --> 01:30:20.800
Or this thing's going to be toast. Let's rate this movie,
1764
01:30:20.899 --> 01:30:21.340
shall we?
1765
01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:22.520
Emily.
1766
01:30:22.539 --> 01:30:25.800
Can I just say the last scene with Marion Cotillard
1767
01:30:25.819 --> 01:30:31.300
is when this movie just locks in as a near
1768
01:30:31.340 --> 01:30:33.659
masterpiece for me. I think that is the scene where
1769
01:30:33.689 --> 01:30:35.670
I'm like, oh, that's what this movie's about. This movie's
1770
01:30:35.729 --> 01:30:40.750
about the fact that this man couldn't give this thing
1771
01:30:40.869 --> 01:30:44.329
up and so he lost everything and she lost everything.
1772
01:30:44.770 --> 01:30:47.649
And then it's also like, And of course, Melvin Purvis
1773
01:30:47.689 --> 01:30:50.250
died by his own hand. And you're like, what?
1774
01:30:51.229 --> 01:30:53.210
I do think she says it to him in their
1775
01:30:53.250 --> 01:30:55.189
first conversation, where she's like, I'm going to end up
1776
01:30:55.229 --> 01:30:57.770
back in my hometown one way or another. You're going
1777
01:30:57.789 --> 01:31:00.689
to die. You're going to get caught. So I do
1778
01:31:00.770 --> 01:31:03.239
think that there is this sort of inevitability to it.
1779
01:31:03.329 --> 01:31:05.510
And she's living in that inevitability at the end that
1780
01:31:05.569 --> 01:31:08.569
is just heartbreaking. Also, her letter to him, where she's like,
1781
01:31:08.590 --> 01:31:10.890
two years isn't that long. Please just don't try and
1782
01:31:10.930 --> 01:31:11.590
bust me out of here.
1783
01:31:11.609 --> 01:31:12.340
Heartbreaking.
1784
01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:16.600
She's a really heartbreaking character in this movie because she's
1785
01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:20.710
just so hyper aware of the fallibility.
1786
01:31:20.170 --> 01:31:20.630
Of all this.
1787
01:31:20.630 --> 01:31:27.149
2009, Emily, you saw this movie in Long Beach. How
1788
01:31:27.189 --> 01:31:29.340
did you, you loved it because it was one of
1789
01:31:29.380 --> 01:31:31.460
the few movies you were able to see.
1790
01:31:32.300 --> 01:31:34.079
I don't know that I would have gone like, I
1791
01:31:34.140 --> 01:31:36.779
probably would have been like an 81. I probably was like,
1792
01:31:36.899 --> 01:31:39.829
I think. This is really great. It's No Miami Vice,
1793
01:31:40.109 --> 01:31:42.449
which I walked out of that theater and I was like,
1794
01:31:42.750 --> 01:31:46.970
I think Michael Mann is finally, finally for me. This
1795
01:31:47.170 --> 01:31:48.869
is like when I walked out of The Last Jedi
1796
01:31:48.930 --> 01:31:50.729
and was like, I finally get Star Wars and I'm
1797
01:31:50.770 --> 01:31:52.090
so glad to join the party.
1798
01:31:52.680 --> 01:31:54.640
And everyone was like.
1799
01:31:54.779 --> 01:31:57.079
And yeah, Miami Vice. I was like, I finally get
1800
01:31:57.100 --> 01:31:59.220
Michael Mann ready to join the party. Everyone was like,
1801
01:31:59.279 --> 01:32:03.340
why do you have a mustache? And this movie I
1802
01:32:03.380 --> 01:32:05.140
was not quite as high on, but I did really
1803
01:32:05.220 --> 01:32:08.430
like it. And I remember looking around at people discussing
1804
01:32:08.449 --> 01:32:10.390
it online and being sort of thrown that they didn't
1805
01:32:10.430 --> 01:32:13.590
like it more. I think Time has been very kind
1806
01:32:13.649 --> 01:32:15.989
to it. I think it is a wonderful movie about
1807
01:32:16.050 --> 01:32:19.029
the ways in which you become imprisoned by your own choices,
1808
01:32:19.550 --> 01:32:23.069
which is man's big theme. But this is a movie
1809
01:32:23.090 --> 01:32:26.890
that really hammers it home for every single character, including
1810
01:32:27.649 --> 01:32:28.390
deeply gay J.
1811
01:32:28.449 --> 01:32:31.229
Edgar Hoover. And so I'm up.
1812
01:32:31.350 --> 01:32:31.850
A little bit.
1813
01:32:31.869 --> 01:32:33.300
You can tell him you can call me J.
1814
01:32:33.289 --> 01:32:33.390
Edgar.
1815
01:32:35.689 --> 01:32:36.850
I'm going to go up a little bit. I think
1816
01:32:36.869 --> 01:32:39.369
I'm going to go like 87. I think this is
1817
01:32:39.470 --> 01:32:42.109
a really solid, this is a great way to end this.
1818
01:32:42.710 --> 01:32:43.729
I agree.
1819
01:32:43.770 --> 01:32:46.409
Part of why I pitched it was like, well, you
1820
01:32:46.489 --> 01:32:50.050
end on public enemies. Everyone wins.
1821
01:32:52.090 --> 01:32:53.569
Blake, what about you? What did you think when you
1822
01:32:53.609 --> 01:32:55.489
saw this in theaters in 09 and where are you now?
1823
01:32:56.109 --> 01:32:58.670
I really, really enjoyed it in the theaters then, but
1824
01:32:58.729 --> 01:33:01.590
just like all Michael Mann movies, I've grown a deeper
1825
01:33:01.710 --> 01:33:04.500
affection and affinity for it because of what it is.
1826
01:33:04.970 --> 01:33:08.470
precisely it is doing rather than what your expectations of
1827
01:33:08.510 --> 01:33:11.109
what it should be doing. And, and I agree that
1828
01:33:11.970 --> 01:33:13.970
I'm such a sucker for like a movie that knows
1829
01:33:14.010 --> 01:33:17.949
how to properly end. And the final scene of this movie,
1830
01:33:18.010 --> 01:33:20.670
just like Michael Mann has a few of these where
1831
01:33:20.689 --> 01:33:23.649
the movie ends and you are just, you know, And
1832
01:33:23.670 --> 01:33:26.329
they happen in all sorts of different spectrums. It's just like,
1833
01:33:26.489 --> 01:33:30.489
you know, Frank in Thief just walking up the road and, like,
1834
01:33:30.529 --> 01:33:33.439
his entire life is torched and everything he ever wanted
1835
01:33:33.500 --> 01:33:35.960
is gone and he's just walking off into the night. Or,
1836
01:33:36.460 --> 01:33:39.159
you know, Heat, for me, the greatest ending of all time.
1837
01:33:39.220 --> 01:33:43.020
Lol walking through the turnstile at the end in the
1838
01:33:43.060 --> 01:33:46.180
building in New York out of the CBS offices. This,
1839
01:33:46.600 --> 01:33:52.250
her face, that exchange. And you're just like, oh, this...
1840
01:33:53.699 --> 01:33:57.720
this really hits, it hits so, so, so much. It
1841
01:33:57.760 --> 01:33:59.779
hits so much harder than it did when I saw it.
1842
01:33:59.800 --> 01:34:02.119
So I, I adore this movie now. It's like right
1843
01:34:02.159 --> 01:34:04.779
up there. And I think that Emily touched on like
1844
01:34:04.800 --> 01:34:07.350
near masterpiece. I don't know what score that would be
1845
01:34:07.390 --> 01:34:08.750
like a four and a half, but like, it's a
1846
01:34:08.810 --> 01:34:11.810
near masterpiece for me, like these days. So I watch it.
1847
01:34:11.970 --> 01:34:12.850
I love it. I love it.
1848
01:34:13.130 --> 01:34:16.770
I love so much. I, I'm, I'm one of the
1849
01:34:16.810 --> 01:34:18.770
reasons that I'm happy we did this mini series is
1850
01:34:18.810 --> 01:34:20.680
because I got to rewatch this and I got to
1851
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:24.649
really walk into it. And I, I, I really, really
1852
01:34:24.689 --> 01:34:26.609
came around on it this time around. I mean, when
1853
01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:28.850
I saw this in 2009, I was pretty disappointed. I'd
1854
01:34:28.899 --> 01:34:30.319
say I probably would have given it like a 72
1855
01:34:30.319 --> 01:34:33.640
or something like that. Like I liked it. I respected it.
1856
01:34:33.800 --> 01:34:37.020
I wanted to be pulled over by it. And in
1857
01:34:37.039 --> 01:34:39.239
the subsequent years, every time I've watched it, I've liked
1858
01:34:39.279 --> 01:34:41.880
it more, but watching it the other day, I was
1859
01:34:41.899 --> 01:34:44.180
just like, okay, this is, this is a, this is
1860
01:34:44.220 --> 01:34:47.340
an all timer for man for me. Um, so I've
1861
01:34:47.359 --> 01:34:49.800
been like, I'm probably like a 85, 86, something like
1862
01:34:49.840 --> 01:34:53.229
that now. Like, I think it's a, um, it's an
1863
01:34:53.369 --> 01:34:59.100
underrated movie that I think, you know, despite Emily's relatives
1864
01:34:59.180 --> 01:35:01.399
being very excited for Ebenezer, Johnny Depp is not what
1865
01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:03.300
he used to be. And I think that that's, that's
1866
01:35:03.479 --> 01:35:05.239
more of a hindrance than a help to movies.
1867
01:35:05.319 --> 01:35:08.880
It seems still haven't, still haven't recovered for that.
1868
01:35:09.659 --> 01:35:11.300
And I, I don't, I didn't, I don't think I
1869
01:35:11.319 --> 01:35:12.720
brought this up. I think this is one of his
1870
01:35:12.760 --> 01:35:17.430
best performances. He's not, he's not an actor.
1871
01:35:17.470 --> 01:35:17.850
I love you.
1872
01:35:17.890 --> 01:35:19.949
Compare this to something like black mass a couple of
1873
01:35:19.970 --> 01:35:22.489
years later, where I think he's actively awful.
1874
01:35:23.109 --> 01:35:23.630
He is.
1875
01:35:24.090 --> 01:35:26.029
This is one of the movies where he's not doing
1876
01:35:26.060 --> 01:35:27.770
a bunch of shtick and it's kind of working.
1877
01:35:27.800 --> 01:35:29.119
Yeah, I totally agree.
1878
01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:29.619
Yeah.
1879
01:35:29.899 --> 01:35:32.319
So Black Mass is another example of him just being like,
1880
01:35:32.380 --> 01:35:34.260
kick me in a bunch of makeup change. I don't
1881
01:35:34.319 --> 01:35:35.380
I don't want to look like I look.
1882
01:35:35.840 --> 01:35:39.319
It's it's Black Mass feels like he's in a video
1883
01:35:39.340 --> 01:35:42.699
game cut scene and has just wandered in from there.
1884
01:35:43.100 --> 01:35:46.119
And it's just like, yeah, pretty much.
1885
01:35:46.520 --> 01:35:49.729
And the video game is whose accent is worse? Yeah.
1886
01:35:49.750 --> 01:35:49.930
Yeah.
1887
01:35:50.770 --> 01:35:51.810
Or Benedict Cumberbatch.
1888
01:35:52.189 --> 01:35:55.970
I mean, it's a bad movie. Blake, could you tell
1889
01:35:56.010 --> 01:35:58.369
people about your podcast, where they can listen to you,
1890
01:35:58.430 --> 01:36:00.470
how they can follow you?
1891
01:36:01.350 --> 01:36:05.069
One Heat Minute Productions is the podcast. We have big, extensive,
1892
01:36:05.170 --> 01:36:09.069
psychopathic deep dive series that sometimes take a really long
1893
01:36:09.100 --> 01:36:12.560
time to produce because I'm a fastidious psychopath editing and
1894
01:36:12.699 --> 01:36:15.680
constructing them, and I put myself into a corner with...
1895
01:36:15.899 --> 01:36:17.720
the structures that I want to build and then hate
1896
01:36:17.760 --> 01:36:20.520
myself for a month while I figure it out. So
1897
01:36:20.560 --> 01:36:22.920
you can go to one heat minute.com. You can find
1898
01:36:22.960 --> 01:36:25.079
out about all our shows. We've done lots of men
1899
01:36:25.619 --> 01:36:30.520
currently really finalizing and we'll start releasing towards the end
1900
01:36:30.550 --> 01:36:32.550
of this year, our series on the insider, which is
1901
01:36:32.569 --> 01:36:34.510
called the mid side of one heat minute where we
1902
01:36:34.550 --> 01:36:36.829
got our name is, is, is the sort of flagship show.
1903
01:36:36.850 --> 01:36:41.350
There's now 200 episodes of heat and heat adjacent content
1904
01:36:41.409 --> 01:36:44.859
in there. we've done a little mini series on my hecans.
1905
01:36:44.920 --> 01:36:49.439
We've done a Miami nice with my tremendous co-host on
1906
01:36:49.510 --> 01:36:52.029
that show. Katie Walsh, Phil, who I recommend that if
1907
01:36:52.069 --> 01:36:54.670
you are going to talk about Miami vice, Katie is
1908
01:36:54.689 --> 01:36:58.130
your girl. Um, and, uh, can't wait to make that happen.
1909
01:36:58.189 --> 01:37:00.949
Make that happen. And, uh, yeah, so we've done lots
1910
01:37:00.989 --> 01:37:03.180
of mini series on all of his stuff and, and
1911
01:37:03.319 --> 01:37:07.239
others stuff, Zodiac, all the president's men. Um, and we've
1912
01:37:07.260 --> 01:37:08.960
got a couple of really cool things coming up and we've,
1913
01:37:09.329 --> 01:37:11.050
and we do new release stuff and other little bits
1914
01:37:11.109 --> 01:37:13.189
and bobs, but that, and, and a physical media show
1915
01:37:13.210 --> 01:37:16.449
with my great friend drew, um, drew Taylor. So yeah, we've,
1916
01:37:16.569 --> 01:37:18.579
there's lots of stuff there, lots for your ears to
1917
01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:20.619
listen to. And Phil has popped up on a couple
1918
01:37:20.659 --> 01:37:23.659
of our decade projects where I just, every throughout the
1919
01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:27.119
year on our Patreon, we do a decade. We look
1920
01:37:27.180 --> 01:37:29.979
back a decade in the past to movies. And so, uh,
1921
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:32.300
we're in 2016 and we're moving into 2017 now. So,
1922
01:37:34.430 --> 01:37:36.090
It's pretty crazy.
1923
01:37:36.130 --> 01:37:38.409
They can follow you on Instagram as well and on Letterboxd.
1924
01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:41.159
People can follow you there. Yes, Emily.
1925
01:37:41.979 --> 01:37:43.659
Can I pitch you on a series that I think
1926
01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:44.500
you and I should do?
1927
01:37:44.800 --> 01:37:45.020
Yes.
1928
01:37:47.180 --> 01:37:50.170
So we just examined some of the worst ideas in
1929
01:37:50.270 --> 01:37:54.850
history through the prism of Bickford Schmeckler's book about ideas.
1930
01:37:55.689 --> 01:37:56.449
So we're just like.
1931
01:37:57.369 --> 01:38:00.649
um yeah so uh the thing where uh robert e
1932
01:38:00.710 --> 01:38:02.770
lee at gettysburg tried to like go up a hill
1933
01:38:02.880 --> 01:38:06.699
and was brutally rebuffed and therefore the confederacy thank god
1934
01:38:06.739 --> 01:38:09.079
lost the civil war and then we're like what would
1935
01:38:09.100 --> 01:38:12.220
bigfoot schmeckler say you know it's a sensitive way to
1936
01:38:12.260 --> 01:38:12.840
tackle some.
1937
01:38:12.739 --> 01:38:15.500
Would it just be called just call it bad ideas.
1938
01:38:15.520 --> 01:38:17.670
It would be called the bad idea show with bigfoot
1939
01:38:17.689 --> 01:38:19.149
schmeckler and emily st james.
1940
01:38:20.930 --> 01:38:23.770
And blick and.
1941
01:38:22.970 --> 01:38:28.069
In really really really small font at the bottom And Blick.
1942
01:38:28.550 --> 01:38:30.930
All our guests are historians.
1943
01:38:31.069 --> 01:38:31.250
Yeah.
1944
01:38:31.270 --> 01:38:33.189
And they don't know we're going to be talking about
1945
01:38:33.210 --> 01:38:34.270
the movie Bigfoot Schmeckler.
1946
01:38:34.289 --> 01:38:36.069
There's more bad ideas as well.
1947
01:38:36.550 --> 01:38:37.310
Yeah.
1948
01:38:37.350 --> 01:38:41.210
And then I just saw sharing the screen on a Zoom.
1949
01:38:41.449 --> 01:38:44.909
Bigfoot Schmeckler, the whole film is playing during every conversation.
1950
01:38:46.130 --> 01:38:50.460
They're just sort of looking at. What? What is this?
1951
01:38:50.680 --> 01:38:55.199
Oh my god. So next week, Blake, we are starting
1952
01:38:55.239 --> 01:38:59.430
a brand new miniseries on the 2000s films of Guillermo
1953
01:38:59.439 --> 01:38:59.899
del Toro.
1954
01:39:00.409 --> 01:39:00.949
Oh.
1955
01:39:01.149 --> 01:39:06.590
So we're doing The Devil's Backbone next week. I don't
1956
01:39:06.609 --> 01:39:10.270
know if you have seen The Devil's Backbone. I have. Yes.
1957
01:39:10.449 --> 01:39:14.329
So we're doing Devil's Backbone, Blade 2, Hellboy, Pan's Labyrinth,
1958
01:39:14.369 --> 01:39:17.760
Hellboy 2. Those are the five. It's quite the run.
1959
01:39:17.770 --> 01:39:19.760
It's a fun run.
1960
01:39:20.100 --> 01:39:23.039
And it lines up perfectly with the month of October.
1961
01:39:23.079 --> 01:39:26.579
So it's just our month of October.
1962
01:39:26.880 --> 01:39:31.010
Spooky stuff, spooky season. First of all, do you have
1963
01:39:31.050 --> 01:39:33.890
a favorite Guillermo movie? And second, what are your feelings
1964
01:39:33.989 --> 01:39:36.810
on Devil's Backbone? And maybe they're the same thing.
1965
01:39:36.909 --> 01:39:38.869
Devil's Backbone, I really enjoyed. I haven't seen it in
1966
01:39:38.890 --> 01:39:41.569
a tremendously long time. I think I saw it on
1967
01:39:41.909 --> 01:39:45.279
a DVD in a university library. That's how long ago.
1968
01:39:46.539 --> 01:39:51.420
I saw it at the time hearing about him, liked it.
1969
01:39:51.640 --> 01:39:54.510
Haven't seen it since don't have any too like deep
1970
01:39:54.890 --> 01:40:00.029
feeling on it, but I think my favorite man alive,
1971
01:40:00.050 --> 01:40:02.569
I mean, pants is pants.
1972
01:40:02.289 --> 01:40:03.529
Is pretty good.
1973
01:40:03.750 --> 01:40:07.189
One of the most original movies maybe ever made. So
1974
01:40:07.250 --> 01:40:10.130
it's kind of brilliant, but I have such a soft
1975
01:40:10.149 --> 01:40:13.130
spot for blade to a movie that rules top to
1976
01:40:13.149 --> 01:40:16.079
bottom for me that I'm like, yeah, like I'm, that
1977
01:40:16.119 --> 01:40:17.699
might be the, if I was watching three of those
1978
01:40:17.739 --> 01:40:19.329
movies again, cause I've seen the hell boy, I feel
1979
01:40:19.350 --> 01:40:21.909
like the hell boys I'm more familiar with. So I
1980
01:40:21.949 --> 01:40:27.529
would kind of go hands blade to the devil's backbone.
1981
01:40:28.329 --> 01:40:30.189
I think that one might be a wild ride. And
1982
01:40:30.210 --> 01:40:32.210
so I'm really looking forward to seeing who you guys
1983
01:40:32.229 --> 01:40:32.949
get to chat.
1984
01:40:32.970 --> 01:40:35.270
It's going to be, it's going to be great. We've
1985
01:40:35.310 --> 01:40:37.680
recorded a, we've recorded a couple of them thus far,
1986
01:40:37.800 --> 01:40:40.779
but like, thank you so much for coming on again.
1987
01:40:41.300 --> 01:40:45.729
As I said to other podcasters, Phil was so kind.
1988
01:40:45.750 --> 01:40:47.270
He's like, Blake, thanks for coming on. I know you're
1989
01:40:47.289 --> 01:40:50.020
super busy. I'm like, man, it's so nice to go
1990
01:40:50.060 --> 01:40:53.439
from host to just a guest. It's really nice. Just
1991
01:40:53.520 --> 01:40:55.680
ask me to come and talk about Michael Mann. I'm like, yeah,
1992
01:40:55.739 --> 01:40:59.020
I can do that. I'm pretty adept at talking about
1993
01:40:59.060 --> 01:40:59.640
his films.
1994
01:40:59.880 --> 01:41:02.359
We did it. We did it. Emily, we did our
1995
01:41:02.380 --> 01:41:05.579
miniseries on the 2000's Best Actress.
1996
01:41:05.619 --> 01:41:06.939
Should I rank these movies?
1997
01:41:07.350 --> 01:41:08.819
Can you please for me? That's what I was going
1998
01:41:08.850 --> 01:41:09.149
to ask.
1999
01:41:09.569 --> 01:41:10.189
Public enemies.
2000
01:41:12.329 --> 01:41:13.609
Good, good. Glad to hear it.
2001
01:41:13.869 --> 01:41:16.409
I think I'm going to go Dogville next. Even though
2002
01:41:16.439 --> 01:41:20.960
it's not my fave. It's a striking cinematic work of something.
2003
01:41:22.520 --> 01:41:25.159
Let's see. Where am I going after that? National Treasure
2004
01:41:25.180 --> 01:41:25.840
Book of Secrets.
2005
01:41:26.149 --> 01:41:26.510
Bam.
2006
01:41:26.859 --> 01:41:28.229
Done. Got to figure it out.
2007
01:41:28.890 --> 01:41:30.829
After that, I think I got to go Black Dahlia.
2008
01:41:30.930 --> 01:41:32.890
Movie we all love.
2009
01:41:33.250 --> 01:41:33.930
All remember.
2010
01:41:35.350 --> 01:41:37.779
Next, I think I'm going to go America's Sweethearts.
2011
01:41:38.409 --> 01:41:38.630
Sure.
2012
01:41:38.729 --> 01:41:39.430
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
2013
01:41:39.529 --> 01:41:41.409
I put, I put the gift. I'm putting the gift.
2014
01:41:41.430 --> 01:41:41.689
Yeah.
2015
01:41:41.710 --> 01:41:42.369
The gift is good.
2016
01:41:42.409 --> 01:41:43.229
That's fine. That's fine.
2017
01:41:43.250 --> 01:41:43.529
Yeah.
2018
01:41:43.649 --> 01:41:43.930
That's fine.
2019
01:41:43.989 --> 01:41:46.210
I'm putting the gift after national treasure secrets.
2020
01:41:46.439 --> 01:41:46.609
Okay.
2021
01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:46.979
Okay.
2022
01:41:47.260 --> 01:41:49.899
I loved that Mount Rushmore again, South Dakota mentioned great
2023
01:41:49.939 --> 01:41:52.039
way to get me to love a movie. So we're
2024
01:41:52.060 --> 01:41:55.300
going the gift. Then we're going a black Dahlia. Then
2025
01:41:55.319 --> 01:41:56.520
we're going America's sweethearts.
2026
01:41:57.699 --> 01:41:58.880
Let's see. What do I have left?
2027
01:41:59.600 --> 01:42:01.260
I think I'm going to put die another day.
2028
01:42:01.279 --> 01:42:01.859
Next.
2029
01:42:01.899 --> 01:42:02.100
Yeah.
2030
01:42:02.119 --> 01:42:04.100
That's kind of, that's kind of a mess of a movie.
2031
01:42:04.710 --> 01:42:07.060
I sent 009 to kill Raynard, shot him in the head,
2032
01:42:07.100 --> 01:42:11.279
took out his Cigar Blancada. And now he feels no
2033
01:42:11.319 --> 01:42:13.909
pain and he just keeps getting stronger.
2034
01:42:14.609 --> 01:42:16.189
It's the only one left, Pay It Forward, because Pay
2035
01:42:16.220 --> 01:42:16.979
It Forward is last.
2036
01:42:17.100 --> 01:42:18.199
You've got A on Flux.
2037
01:42:18.739 --> 01:42:20.859
Oh, you know what? You know what?
2038
01:42:20.920 --> 01:42:22.359
Mix it all up. I've got to put A on
2039
01:42:22.380 --> 01:42:25.300
Flux ahead of Die Another Day. It's a mess, but
2040
01:42:25.319 --> 01:42:27.899
it's an interesting mess. Then Die Another Day, then Pay
2041
01:42:27.920 --> 01:42:28.619
It Forward.
2042
01:42:28.659 --> 01:42:29.960
Pay It Forward's dead last, huh?
2043
01:42:30.060 --> 01:42:32.640
This has been, you know, for a miniseries that I pitched,
2044
01:42:33.720 --> 01:42:35.180
I have not regretted it one moment.
2045
01:42:35.920 --> 01:42:39.260
Nor should you. I've had a blast. I mean, it's
2046
01:42:39.399 --> 01:42:44.659
crazy that these movies have been clumped together. Um, and
2047
01:42:44.720 --> 01:42:46.359
how many of them don't exist is really kind of
2048
01:42:46.399 --> 01:42:48.670
the most amazing part of it. Like you really could
2049
01:42:48.729 --> 01:42:50.850
be like this entire batch of movies.
2050
01:42:50.869 --> 01:42:55.630
People were like, yeah, I think almost all of them. Oh, Penelope.
2051
01:42:55.829 --> 01:42:58.649
How dare I forget Penelope. That's in the middle somewhere.
2052
01:42:59.470 --> 01:43:03.069
I do think outside of Penelope and Black Delia, they are,
2053
01:43:03.220 --> 01:43:04.899
and maybe The Gift, they are all movies where when
2054
01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:07.680
you mention them, people are like, oh yeah. So they
2055
01:43:07.779 --> 01:43:10.380
don't exist in a way where people remember them, which
2056
01:43:10.539 --> 01:43:12.399
is to me, the best kind of movie.
2057
01:43:13.670 --> 01:43:18.289
A movie that doesn't exist truly, though, is I actually
2058
01:43:18.310 --> 01:43:20.630
had to look it up. And I think that one
2059
01:43:20.649 --> 01:43:24.689
of the posters that's on here, I'm going to send
2060
01:43:24.750 --> 01:43:26.819
it in our chat so you guys can see it,
2061
01:43:27.890 --> 01:43:31.750
is absolutely this poster for America's Sweethearts. You can't tell
2062
01:43:31.789 --> 01:43:35.069
me that this exists. Just look at it.
2063
01:43:35.100 --> 01:43:37.069
What do you mean? I totally know who those four
2064
01:43:37.109 --> 01:43:39.359
people are. They're not photoshopped at all. They all seem
2065
01:43:39.399 --> 01:43:40.000
totally normal.
2066
01:43:40.439 --> 01:43:42.979
My take on America's Sweethearts, which I've already shared on
2067
01:43:43.020 --> 01:43:44.539
the show, so we should just edit this out, is
2068
01:43:44.579 --> 01:43:47.140
that if you came from another planet or you were
2069
01:43:47.279 --> 01:43:50.279
a time traveler from the distant past and you came
2070
01:43:50.479 --> 01:43:55.819
to America right now and you showed that person America's Sweethearts,
2071
01:43:55.859 --> 01:43:58.239
this person who has no context for anything that has
2072
01:43:58.300 --> 01:44:00.000
ever happened, the first thing they would say was, well,
2073
01:44:00.020 --> 01:44:01.770
that was made before September 11th, right?
2074
01:44:02.119 --> 01:44:03.590
Like, that's what that movie is.
2075
01:44:03.609 --> 01:44:07.329
Yeah. I mean, same with Pay It Forward, quite frankly.
2076
01:44:07.529 --> 01:44:12.890
Pay It Forward's got real pre-9-11 vibes. Thank you, Blake, again.
2077
01:44:12.909 --> 01:44:18.109
We will have you back for something in this vein,
2078
01:44:18.289 --> 01:44:20.869
another 30s crime drama.
2079
01:44:21.069 --> 01:44:23.109
I did say Pay It Forward in a conversation with
2080
01:44:23.180 --> 01:44:25.229
another preschool mom the other day and felt like I'd
2081
01:44:25.260 --> 01:44:29.119
said hate speech. I was like, no way, that's just
2082
01:44:29.199 --> 01:44:32.319
a thing people say sometimes. They haven't seen the movie.
2083
01:44:37.060 --> 01:44:39.100
All right, Blake. We'll talk soon.
2084
01:44:39.479 --> 01:44:41.159
Talk soon. Bye, guys.
2085
01:44:41.500 --> 01:44:43.930
Bye, Blake. Bye.