Using Digital Technologies to Enhance Patient Experience and Better Manage Supply Chain

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.759
Welcome to Pharma Talk Radio. This podcast is focused on
2
00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:08.439
using digital technologies to enhance patient experience and better matched
3
00:00:08.439 --> 00:00:12.320
supply chain from the twenty twenty five pod Partnership Opportunities
4
00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:17.160
in Drug Delivery Conference. For more information on the POD conference, editorials, podcasts,
5
00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:21.039
or webcasts, please visit podconference dot com. Thank you and
6
00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:22.079
enjoy the podcast.
7
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:26.920
My name is rab Koshik. I had Takeda's the device
8
00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:32.439
digital innovation team for the plasma dirived business. We have
9
00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:38.840
the molecule business, which is outside. So for plasma it's
10
00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:43.840
slightly different. It's we collect people's plasma and then we
11
00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:46.880
make medicines and we provide it back. It's very very
12
00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:51.320
large volumes and the protein that we handle has to
13
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:56.439
be more sensitive, so slightly different, also large volumes. I'll
14
00:00:56.520 --> 00:01:01.679
quickly let my co hosts introduce themselves. Our moderator didn't
15
00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:03.240
make it, so we are all going to moderate and
16
00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:04.200
speak at the same time.
17
00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:09.879
Rebecca Forward. So I work for very Next. We are
18
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:15.079
an innovative cro that does design and development, clinical pre
19
00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:21.200
clinical testing, and regulatory quality services, and I work closely
20
00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:23.640
with our drug delivery team, so working with a lot
21
00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:26.840
of pharmaceutical clients on developing drug delivery devices.
22
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:33.159
I'm June Way, Innovation manager at Novo Nordisk, So I'm
23
00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.959
in charge of external partnership for device and digital device
24
00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.480
component and we are based in Cambridge and it's a
25
00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:44.239
small team and then we'll have a big device manufacturer
26
00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:48.280
team and also engineers sitting in Denmark. So yeah, we're
27
00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.280
doing our search and scout team for early device technology
28
00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.760
and also combination product technology in United States.
29
00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.840
Wonderful. So let me start with you, Rebecca. You work
30
00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:04.599
across clients to identify needs and digital plans. So are
31
00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.000
you seeing a concerted effort on drug delivery devices and
32
00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:11.840
connected care and some kind of ROI business case Because
33
00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:14.800
I always refer to diabetes as being the gold standard,
34
00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:18.199
but then for others, what's the kind of development you've
35
00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.280
seen over the last few years.
36
00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:24.319
Yeah, so we do see a lot of drug delivery
37
00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:28.000
devices going to digital platforms, and I think a lot
38
00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:31.120
of that plays into moving away from just adherents but
39
00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:34.360
into more of therapy management and preventive care as well.
40
00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:37.439
So instead of adherents being did we take our drug
41
00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:39.639
on time or did we take our drug at all,
42
00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:42.840
it's now moving to Okay, we've taken our drug, but
43
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:48.159
how does that change my future outcomes? How does that
44
00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:53.479
feedback to possible changes in what we and how we're treating,
45
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.719
and that information is being integrated back to the care
46
00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:02.159
team that ultimately then care and help change those outcomes
47
00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:04.919
for the patient. So we're seeing, i mean, the the
48
00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:10.759
digital trend in general with a lot of younger patients
49
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:13.039
and a lot of early adopters into the digital space.
50
00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:17.680
People want to take proactive care of their of their
51
00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:20.400
health and therefore are really looking for what are those
52
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.960
modalities where they can really own part of this care
53
00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:32.280
platform instead of really being more reactive or uh to
54
00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.599
to to the therapy itself. So we are seeing a
55
00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:38.319
lot of drug delivery clients looking for how do we
56
00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:39.879
integrate that digital platform?
57
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:44.599
Wonderful? So a question for Junuai with the g LP
58
00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:49.599
market and the broader diabetes obesity system ecosystem, how do
59
00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:54.560
you see this different formats of wild syringes and devices,
60
00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:59.000
connected devices with all the patient journeys converging or do
61
00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.639
you see any converging or because Novol kind of has
62
00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:07.080
it all right, We've got bands, syringes, devices and connected care.
63
00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:12.080
So yeah, this is exciting kind of market right now.
64
00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.840
And also I think most of the people are aware
65
00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.199
of like GRP one and this is a blockbuster drug.
66
00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.360
I need it, yeah to do I can give you
67
00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:25.199
this count right, So yeah, So I think like it's
68
00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:29.040
interesting to maybe not just talk about digital technology or
69
00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.120
device or connected device. So if we jump out of
70
00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:35.920
the box, so we have I mean this drug device
71
00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.319
formats right now are not just like a technical upgrade
72
00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:42.920
or maybe life cycle management tools, and we can we
73
00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:47.240
can see these device strategies more like you know, product strategy.
74
00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:50.639
And for example, as you just mentioned, like we have
75
00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:55.240
seen a wide range of device options including like violences
76
00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:59.480
range autoinjectors and also potentially maybe connected device for GRP
77
00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.759
one and for obviously that these users, right, But it's
78
00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.600
interesting like how we digest these options. So for me,
79
00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:09.920
it's like each of these options provide a value for
80
00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.040
the patient around their patient journey. But it's really important
81
00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:18.000
for the pharmaceutical companies to sharpen their understanding of what
82
00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:21.800
exactly the patients require and the need and also the
83
00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.519
market evolving. For me, it's no longer like launching a
84
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.360
product you know, on the market. It's more about launching
85
00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.720
the right product at the right time. So for example,
86
00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:34.560
the vire on the strange options. We can never imagine
87
00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:38.000
this could be launched like if you have autoinjector as
88
00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.759
a solution, right, but it's a strategy like a marketing
89
00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.680
of sales, like like kind of initiative. So to be
90
00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.040
as right now, we're also adapting a learning of like
91
00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.160
how to you know, launch multiple products on the market
92
00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.279
in the same region even so how to you know,
93
00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:56.000
differentiate this product and also maybe also learning how to
94
00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.360
do this direct to customer our direct to patient like service.
95
00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.279
Yeah, that's interesting that direct to customer, direct to patient.
96
00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.399
So on that patient interaction, Rebecca, you were mentioning therapy
97
00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:11.319
management and preventative care. But beyond adherence, what are some
98
00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:15.120
of the features that you feel are good engagement strategies?
99
00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:19.560
Because I make it like in a consumer world, what
100
00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:22.839
are the five apps you use? You use banking, or
101
00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:27.879
you use music, you use navigation because these apps actually
102
00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:31.519
help you to reduce your steps to not look up
103
00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:33.879
the map or not look up go to the bank.
104
00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:37.360
So in healthcare, what are some of those features that
105
00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:41.759
you feel are helpful and providing those reduction of steps
106
00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:42.639
or engagement.
107
00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:46.800
Yeah, I mean some of them are ones that obviously
108
00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.319
have some again change to your treatment paradigm. So something
109
00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:54.079
that actually will provide that feedback loop things like right
110
00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:56.920
now will have for again, you know, a big push
111
00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.240
on patient adherence has really been the trend, but be
112
00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.720
just general reminders that okay, it's time to take your medication.
113
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:08.079
But now looking at further along the preventative care kind
114
00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:11.600
of therapy treatment is okay, what are the environmental factors
115
00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:13.680
or what are you traveling, what are some of the
116
00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:16.680
different things that might be happening, and getting that data
117
00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:20.800
that feeds that back into how do we then start
118
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.639
giving triggers to now it's time to take your drug
119
00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:26.120
based on the fact that if it's let's say an
120
00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.279
allergy type medication or an asthma, based on the environmental
121
00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:33.040
factors outside or other aspects, that we'll just have that
122
00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:36.480
patient engage further because now they're actually getting treatment when
123
00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:40.920
they need its, versus on a time based aspect. Another
124
00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.439
one is there start to be some digital apps, Like
125
00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:49.000
you said again, they're useful. So for patients on let's say,
126
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:53.319
with mental health concerns anxiety depression, there's therapeutic apps that
127
00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:57.920
are being recommended or prescribed alongside those drugs to help
128
00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:03.480
the patients with different ways of moderating kind of their
129
00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:07.959
disease state themselves, which again could then feedback into okay, now,
130
00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.079
how do we change the dose regime that they're on
131
00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:14.720
and or change the drugs that they're on, or provide
132
00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:17.879
some additional supplements. So we start to see some of
133
00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:20.639
those apps evolve, and again as people find those to
134
00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.040
be helpful and successful in their treatment pathway, they start
135
00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.720
to use those as a normal means.
136
00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:31.480
Yeah, wonderful. And from our side, I think I mentioned
137
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.200
this to other people before, but we came up with
138
00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:40.480
an idea of voice enabled infusion app or we worked
139
00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:44.559
with Amazon. So it came to us like from cooking
140
00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:46.360
that if you can say, hey, I want to cook
141
00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.159
pasta or veryani, it can walk you through the steps
142
00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.159
of the recipe. So similarly, if you say I would
143
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:57.360
like to infuse this drug, it could walk you through
144
00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:00.799
on video or audio. And and what we liked is
145
00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:04.480
that the patients actually appreciate that it's hands free. They
146
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:07.600
don't have to fiddle with the app, and they can
147
00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:10.679
talk to it and it can talk back. So we've
148
00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.360
successfully managed to actually work with Amazon and come up
149
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:17.320
with that. But that's another example of having an engagement
150
00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:20.559
from a different perspective. It's a simple thing that you
151
00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.240
already have in your life with Alexa or Google, which
152
00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:29.799
you can very quickly transport to health, just like Apple
153
00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.159
Health is doing with their watch. So more and more
154
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.799
I hear that the consumerization of health care needs to
155
00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:38.360
be with the existing consumer products that are in the
156
00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:40.639
market rather than create new ones. There is a lot
157
00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:43.320
of app fatigue. I get a lot of pushback that
158
00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:47.120
patients are already drowning in their disease. They don't want
159
00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:49.039
to deal with an app. So you have to make
160
00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:53.000
it such that it starts being engaging or reduces their
161
00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:57.200
stress or strain. So like we have some other features
162
00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:02.759
like drink your water, polite nudges, take a walk, enter
163
00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:08.840
your symptoms through voice, what's your mood feeling like height, weight, body, etc.
164
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:12.399
And other medications. You don't want multiple apps, but also
165
00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:15.799
you just want like the top five features rather than
166
00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:17.399
fifteen or twenty.
167
00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:19.240
Can I play off that?
168
00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:20.360
Ask you another question?
169
00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:23.639
How do you balance adding the advanced features with the
170
00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.799
need for simplicity for the older adults or patients with
171
00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:28.080
low digital literacy.
172
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.320
Yeah, that's a good one. So the voice example is one,
173
00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:36.480
and then the other ones were making the signs and
174
00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:42.360
symbols on the apps more intuitive with colors, with large symbols,
175
00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:47.799
with the touchscreen, so basically imitating what works today with
176
00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.159
a lot of people who are I wouldn't say less
177
00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:55.000
digital literate, but don't want to get into the wording
178
00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:59.000
and the reading. So just like you used to design
179
00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:04.960
user interface is and charts and paper for how Dell
180
00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:08.399
used to come with a simple put this computer together
181
00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:12.159
with a picture diagram, you could pretty much apply that
182
00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.519
human factors and UI to app development. And I think
183
00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:18.159
if you approach it like that, a lot of people
184
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.120
appreciate that it is more like a lego block rather
185
00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:24.799
than intricate set of directions.
186
00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:29.240
And I'll maybe give another example on similarly, like you're saying,
187
00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:31.480
there's a lot of app fatigue. But on top of that,
188
00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:36.399
we've done some development of a product drug delivery device
189
00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.840
that has an application, but the delivery device itself had
190
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:46.159
some very very simple symbols and some feedback to the user. Basically,
191
00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:49.000
we took what is the critical pathway that they absolutely
192
00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:52.440
need to do XYZ to complete this therapy and the
193
00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.120
rest of it that could be provided a lot more
194
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.679
information that would be helpful, let's say for the clinician,
195
00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.320
for the patient really more on that preventative of really
196
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.600
understanding how is this working. All of that was fed
197
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.200
onto the app because they had a lot more ability
198
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:11.120
to we could we could mind data and actually provide
199
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.240
more insight through the application. But the device itself gave
200
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.279
the aspect of here are the quick, easy steps that
201
00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.120
you had to do to make sure that they did
202
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.519
receive the drug therapy. And then again so that way
203
00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:25.639
at least if they didn't want to use the app,
204
00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:28.080
or they were unable to or it was too difficult,
205
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:33.720
just based on based on who the patient was, they
206
00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:36.240
could still get the therapy. And so there's some aspects
207
00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:39.200
we have built into some of those digital applications that
208
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:42.639
are what is minimal viable. Let's make sure that that
209
00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:45.320
can be done by anyone, very very simply. And then
210
00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.639
let's add those additional features that most patients may want
211
00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.159
and clinicians probably want as well, but let's keep that
212
00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:54.480
separate just to make sure that we can still ensure
213
00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.600
that the patient can forget the therapy regardless.
214
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:01.159
Great thank you, June, you were many thing flexible to
215
00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:06.480
accommodate multiple telehealth partners, So some device design choices to
216
00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:12.120
help having a product being interoperable across disparate telehealth systems.
217
00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.039
What are some of your thoughts on that?
218
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:19.320
So I saw like also just echo with Rebecca is
219
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.759
like it's also interesting for us to think out, just
220
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.799
like a double click of like what exactly the role
221
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:30.879
of pharmaceutical companies should do in this digital health like component.
222
00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:34.320
So should we like you know, like work with these
223
00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:38.600
expertise like partners to you know, like a code generating
224
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:41.000
an ecosystem, or should we you know, try to own
225
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:44.320
everything we want to own? So that's also an interesting
226
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.679
question where I think every single day like also depends
227
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.600
on different drug projects, right But for what I'm learning
228
00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:52.279
right now, if we want to make a connective device
229
00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:55.600
for maybe GP one for like obviously dis use, we
230
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.240
need to make sure the platforms or maybe the protocols
231
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.320
should be more standard, so like a more like generic
232
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:06.159
towards different telehealth equal like help telehealth company or maybe partners.
233
00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:09.000
So that's kind of the learning. We will maybe adapt
234
00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:11.399
in the future, but right now, so far, we don't
235
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:15.559
have any connected device for GRP onie users. But we
236
00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.879
are monitoring the space and also we're monitoring the trend
237
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.559
and if there will be a future, I think that's
238
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.799
the time for us to really understanding from a data perspective,
239
00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.039
how to transfer data, how to like do the data integration,
240
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.919
and also cloud based data storage, so to make sure
241
00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:34.559
like we can apply the same maybe software, metic, device,
242
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:39.639
protical or algorithm to different like telehealth partners, right, and indeed,
243
00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:42.639
I think for obest and adapt this area, we can't
244
00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.519
have more options, so we're don't need to work alone
245
00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.879
by ourselves to make those apps we can right now,
246
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:50.799
maybe a lot of people are aware of like they
247
00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:55.080
have so many like telehealth company working obesit online so
248
00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:57.720
we can also get prescription there, right, so you don't
249
00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:00.799
necessarily to go to your like phys to get the
250
00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:04.240
physical exam to get a prescription, so you can go there.
251
00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.080
But also they're also launching like the whole ecosystem of
252
00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.360
like how to prevent obviousity and also for the lifestyle intervention,
253
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:14.000
so that's something for sure, like a novel or maybe
254
00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:18.679
other farmer companies who are not really maybe like capable
255
00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:20.639
to do that, right. So that's why I feel like
256
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.879
my feeling is like it's good to kind of closely
257
00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.879
working with these companies and kind of like using our
258
00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.879
knowledge from clinical development, maybe from the drug like discovery perspective,
259
00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.279
right to educate them to make sure they have a
260
00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:37.960
properate like maybe advertisement on education towards the patients. But
261
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.639
for sure, like on the digital component, I think we
262
00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.120
should rely on those partners and trust those partners to
263
00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.000
co deliver products together.
264
00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:52.480
Wonderful. And on the data, what is some of the
265
00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:56.600
data that you guys have experienced collecting and using realistically,
266
00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:00.320
Because somewhere I heard data is the new goal, but
267
00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:02.759
now there's so much its data is the new sand
268
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.639
because there's so much of it, you have to dig
269
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.440
in the data to find the gold. So like, what
270
00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:12.840
are some of your experiences of having extracted data, found
271
00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.840
some insight, applied it back. Because all that looks very
272
00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.519
good in theory, but you try to do it in reality,
273
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.519
it's very difficult for us. Like rare disease, we only
274
00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:25.679
have hundreds of patients, so we don't know how much data.
275
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.120
We don't have a lot. And then diabetes is the
276
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.240
other extreme, which is lots of data. So any thoughts
277
00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.039
on that, Rebecca or one way.
278
00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:36.320
I can jump at first, so this is not really
279
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:41.200
a drug delivery example specifically, but in the womb care industry,
280
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.799
I did work with a device, a connected device that
281
00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:49.399
did a lot of that data was pushed back to
282
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.279
the farmer or the company itself, and a lot of
283
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:57.480
it was around tracking of kind of these were larger
284
00:16:57.639 --> 00:16:59.159
kind of rented pumps, so a lot of it had
285
00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:00.919
to do with the supply chain, and it was making
286
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:03.639
sure that we know where those pumps are, what hospitals
287
00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:07.720
have they been deployed to, because eventually they were rent
288
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:09.559
like I said, rented pumps, so eventually we wanted to
289
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.359
get those back both for maintenance purposes but then also
290
00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:14.079
at the end of a contract and sure we get
291
00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:15.880
those back. So a lot of it was just tracking
292
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.319
of where is our supply chain in the out there
293
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:24.160
in the world. But also there was some patient aspects
294
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:26.799
to that too, in that we did collect things like
295
00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:29.960
as the pumps running on the various different patients that
296
00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.359
were deatentified, are we getting a lot of alarms on
297
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.279
this patient, or are we getting or are they having
298
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.559
successful treatments? How long are they being treated for? So
299
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.480
that information did come back. I will say this was
300
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:45.720
this project specifically, it was quite a few years ago,
301
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.319
and so a lot of that data. To your point,
302
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:52.319
I'm not sure there was strong changes being made, but
303
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:54.119
that fed more back to the R and D group
304
00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:56.400
of like how can we make improvements here for the future.
305
00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:01.680
There wasn't anything specifically changing that patience itself, but it
306
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:03.839
does start to play into how do we how do
307
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.519
we know what's out in the field, at least in
308
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.160
a device perspective for things that we do want to
309
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.720
do preventative maintenance on and things like that.
310
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.359
Yeah, wonderful because earlier you used to go to survey
311
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.480
and find these and call people, and so now there's
312
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:20.359
this mechanism for getting the feedback anything from you.
313
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.240
Yeah, from a supply chain perspective, right, So I'm trying
314
00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:27.480
to like talk about the topic. So I think it's
315
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:31.839
more like about the market share focusing, so from a
316
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.119
supply chain perspective. So it's no longer just maybe a
317
00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:38.519
prescription volume. Based on my understanding after I talk with
318
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.519
my colleagues, I'm not expert here, but it seems like
319
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.559
right now we are seeing a shift of the chind
320
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:47.599
that is like monitored the maybe the real world behavior
321
00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.440
like data so for example, you can track like how
322
00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:54.319
patients switch between different formats. As I just discussed right,
323
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.359
patient can switch from buy on STRINGE to out the
324
00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.640
injector and maybe they will switch back to monitor and
325
00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.680
we understand why. And second is like they may switch
326
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.599
between different brands. Even so, so this is something interesting.
327
00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:09.279
We will collect the data and as we try to
328
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:12.279
digest and then understanding and we should have the real
329
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.880
time data collection. And the second component will be what
330
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.680
promotes these healthcare providers to you know, like recommend one
331
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:23.799
device over the other the other options. So we don't know.
332
00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:27.400
So then we are also seeing like there's something new
333
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.039
data wing to collect and try to you know understand.
334
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.400
So but overall I think these insights right now become
335
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.480
kind of the core kind of like a strategy like
336
00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:39.920
thinking to to kind of shape our product design. Also
337
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:40.680
the supply chain.
338
00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:47.279
Yeah yeah, fantastic. So last couple of questions one is
339
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:52.400
like both launch patient engagement, like who should who should
340
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.400
take responsibility the pharma, the device, the speciality, pharmacy, the
341
00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:00.640
channel partner, all of them and how or what do
342
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:02.799
you think are the pros and cons of the governance
343
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:08.480
structure of you know that patient engagement and continued you know,
344
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:12.960
ongoing monitoring, measuring adherence compliants. Because there are so many
345
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.839
people in the value chain, yeah.
346
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:19.480
I can start. I think, just like anything else in
347
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.759
medical devices, is to be a risk based approach. So
348
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.559
if the drug is high risk, then the pharmaceutical company
349
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:29.720
should absolutely own the patient information and sort of the
350
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.240
overall supply chain or that overall value chain, just because
351
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:38.880
they're both best suited for doing any safety reporting or
352
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:44.000
kind of the clinical outcomes. If the drug itself is
353
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.759
only successful, let's say through the modality of delivery, then
354
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.480
perhaps the OEM or the device partner should really own
355
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.119
that data and own that paradigm. There's other things too,
356
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.559
where again, if it's more clinician based treatments, then perhaps
357
00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:03.559
the clinicians the most effective in that to own that
358
00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:06.720
patient data, own that feedback. And then there's gonna be
359
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.000
cases too where you know, there's a little bit of both.
360
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.480
It's going to be a risky drug and it's only
361
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.880
delivered through a specific method, and you need the clinician involved,
362
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:16.799
and therefore there's going to be some sort of a
363
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:21.079
shared partnership through this. But just like anything else, it
364
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:24.119
should start from what is that risk based approach and
365
00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:28.039
who has the biggest influence on the success for the
366
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.359
patient or the outcome for the patient and really push
367
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.079
that the ownership in their direction.
368
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:38.000
Yeah, from my understanding, it's like a farmer should be
369
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.960
responsible for patients. So that's all so, and everybody want
370
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.559
to increase patients like experience, right, so ween to be
371
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.799
responsible and feel the liability. So if we are, I mean,
372
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:50.799
if we are not clear off of our responsibility, we
373
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:52.920
shouldn't maybe not never step into that area.
374
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:59.640
Okay, wonderful. And so one last or close to last
375
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.519
question is what does the future look like for you
376
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.440
or how do you think that digital device? I call
377
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:09.359
it the three D drug device, digital the three D ecosystem.
378
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.319
So how would you like it to be in the
379
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.000
next three four years? Because it's been changing, but there
380
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:19.880
is still a lot of challenges and adoption theeians compliants
381
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.000
and understanding different levels. There are still some people who
382
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.279
are quite not so sure about digital health and whether
383
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.839
it is working or not. So are you guys bullish?
384
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:34.000
And what is your view or vision for this to
385
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:35.480
be in the next three to five years?
386
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:41.200
So I think I would say I'm on the Polish
387
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.799
side I think we should definitely be utilizing the digital
388
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:49.000
aspects that we have to support patients. I mean, you
389
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.160
look at other parts of the healthcare industry and obviously
390
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:57.519
and the big buzzwords, right AI, machine learning, all of
391
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:01.880
those aspects. You see that already being used in diagnostics
392
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:06.920
mostly right, with a lot of imaging and processing of
393
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.759
that imaging. But there's no reason we shouldn't be able
394
00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:11.720
to start to apply that in other areas too. And
395
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.319
it's not I think the one thing I heard this
396
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.960
at a couple conferences not too long ago, but I
397
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.759
think there's always going to be that human in the
398
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:23.200
loop aspect. So I don't think this is let's take
399
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.720
away the clinicians. Let's you know, this is going to be. Yes,
400
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.680
there's a little more straight to patient interactions, and I
401
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.039
think that's helpful, But we're not getting rid of the clinicians.
402
00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:35.599
We're not getting rid of those caregivers. Those absolutely need
403
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.160
to be part of it, but they can be armed
404
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.920
with a lot better information to help make those decisions
405
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.039
both faster which can improve outcomes, but also more reliably.
406
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.920
And so that's where I think the we absolutely need
407
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.920
to bring digital aspects into the pharmaceutical industry as well.
408
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.599
For me, I'm also polish but also caut yourself, like
409
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.599
the way we work on to solve the problem. So
410
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.640
I mean for me, it's more like right now, like
411
00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.279
we all want to work in this exciting area, but
412
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:09.200
also like what's the best way for farmer to work
413
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:12.680
in this component? So for me, like a partnership like
414
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:16.920
strategy is really really important and essential. Maybe. So then
415
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:20.119
the final question I think most important question is like
416
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:23.359
how to define or balance the costs and shares and
417
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.720
the rental revenues? Right so who will take over the
418
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.119
cost and who will get the revenue? For me, I
419
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:30.960
think it's really important right now we need to have
420
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:33.720
a clear like metrics right now to think about like
421
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.359
how to take this share this kind of like costs
422
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.200
and revenue shares. For me, I think couple like maybe
423
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:43.119
thinking first is like maybe we need to check like
424
00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:47.960
the percentage increase of this therapy like persistence it can
425
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.400
generate through this digital app and be like this telehealth system.
426
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:52.640
Right.
427
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.640
Second will be like the reduction of the set effects
428
00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:00.880
on the adverse events through the technology. Then the third
429
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:04.440
one will be like how many like new patients acquisitions
430
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.200
can collect or like like can collect maybe through these
431
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:09.880
like partner channels.
432
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:10.079
Right.
433
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.599
So I think with this outcome like driven like a
434
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.839
database on metrics, will really like have a clear structure
435
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:21.240
for farmers to clearly justify the investment and also align
436
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:23.720
with the partners in we're beginning to tell them like
437
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.759
this is a co owner like co ownership, right, So
438
00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:30.519
that I think with the fundamental like alignment, then it's
439
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.160
a good start to to kind of navigate this this
440
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:33.880
kind of problem.
441
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.200
Yeah, those are those are I'm very Polish as well,
442
00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:42.519
and I think if I compare, I always tell people
443
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:44.880
that did you ever think there will be a driver
444
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:48.960
less car? And it is happening already. There is way more.
445
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:51.599
Even in Boston I heard I've not done it yet.
446
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.279
I had not imagined it. So just like there can
447
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:57.519
be a driver less car, there can be a lot
448
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.200
more patient treatment. So like nowadays, you pick up your iPad,
449
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.839
it says, oh, you usually read the Wall Street Journal,
450
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.599
there's some AI happening there. Your watch is like, oh,
451
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:09.799
it's your sleeping time, would you like me to set
452
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.799
your alarm? So imagine a day that your watch or
453
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.960
whatever says it's time to wake up, go for your walk,
454
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.720
come back, drink your hot water, have a drug, take
455
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:25.200
this dose. There is a CGM like monitoring device which
456
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:28.279
is telling how you're doing, so it would vary the
457
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:31.839
dose based on your requirement, and it would then also
458
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:36.640
record your symptoms. It would keep like logging you like
459
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.599
a digital companion fully and be seamless because it would
460
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.480
talk to you or remind you, or I mean just
461
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.200
be the digital companion And hopefully that can all then
462
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:51.519
transcend back to become more what I understand about jen
463
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:54.720
AI versus just like the AI and before that it
464
00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:57.799
was like you typed in FAQs and it used to
465
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.839
answer from the database. How you type in any garbled stuff.
466
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.079
It deciphers what you're trying to say, and it answers
467
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.759
what you are actually looking for. So with Jenny, I
468
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.319
hope that the treatment will get customized to every person
469
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.440
and they will start feeling more that I need to
470
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.079
rely on my digital companion because it is actually knowing
471
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.559
me and my treatment, not just from a delivery, but
472
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:24.920
from a reaction and how my body and my overall
473
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:28.559
ecosystem is reacting back to it and giving the information
474
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:32.799
back to my IT'CP nurses in the ecosystem, so I feel,
475
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.359
of course there's a lot of talk of privacy and
476
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:39.839
data privacy. I think privacy is long lost now, so
477
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:44.119
we should just adopt the data and the digital companions
478
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.599
for us to all have much better outcomes. When I
479
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.880
started driving a car, there was no rear view camera,
480
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:53.279
there was no navigation, there was gears, there was a
481
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.559
lot more that I had to do. And the behavior
482
00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:58.599
change has happened because it's made it so much easier.
483
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:03.440
There's navigation. My son was like, you travel the same route,
484
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:06.519
but you still have the navigation on. It's for traffic
485
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.200
because I want to make sure that. And similarly rear camera.
486
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:13.240
I used to park and ding and dent my car,
487
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:15.960
but now rear camera and so on and so forth.
488
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:18.960
Right Tesla drivers they just like have the self drive.
489
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.319
So the behavior change happens easily when it makes it
490
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.839
easier for you because you really then adopt the digital
491
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:31.759
or figital I call it physical and digital aspects which
492
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:35.359
are making your life easier. So I will say, if
493
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:39.319
those digital companions and products are making your life easier,
494
00:28:39.400 --> 00:28:42.680
your behavior change is guaranteed. But if it's going to
495
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.599
be harder to adopt, it'll be this is just my view.
496
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:48.119
Any others, I'll.
497
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.240
Take two seconds. But I was going to say, it's
498
00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:52.359
something that is going to take time. To your point,
499
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:54.759
it has to be a behavior change. But I think
500
00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:57.319
you made a point too of like you start to
501
00:28:57.319 --> 00:28:59.200
see a pattern of you wake up in the morning
502
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:01.200
and you always read the Wolk Street Journal. Now it's
503
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.440
starting to pop that up for you, right, So it's
504
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.799
make it's anything that will make their lives easier, they
505
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:08.880
will start to adopt to. But also watching those patterns
506
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.480
of how people react to the drugs that they're on
507
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:13.960
or whatever it may be, and adapting the digital.
508
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:14.480
Solutions to that.
509
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:17.839
Just final comment, I think like we will trust the
510
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:20.519
partner again, So I mean I'm sure like a partner
511
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.440
they are studying like human like behavior and those usability
512
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.240
here and also urine a science even right, so for
513
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:28.160
us as a farmer, we make we will make the
514
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:30.519
best in class drugs and they will trust the partner
515
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:31.640
to do the rest of the work.
516
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.240
We hope you enjoyed the podcast. For more information on
517
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:39.039
the pod Conference editorials, podcasts, or webcasts, please visit podconference
518
00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:40.839
dot com. Thanks for listening.