Unlocking School Bias: Using Neuroscience to Improve Student Outcomes with Horacio Sanchez

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Welcome back to season 14 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast,
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where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning
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and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement,
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productivity, and results, using what I saw as the missing link.
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Since we weren't taught this when we were growing up in school,
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the application of practical neuroscience.
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I'm Andrea Samadi, an author and an educator with a passion for learning and
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launched this podcast seven years ago now with the goal of bringing all the
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leading experts together in one place to help us to apply this research in our daily lives.
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Welcome back it's always good to
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take some time away for travel and family time and it feels incredible to get
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back into routine and recording so thank you for tuning back in after our summer
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break where i hope you've taken some time off to refresh before diving back
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into the second half of 2025.
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For today's episode number 365, we meet with someone I first heard about in
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our very first interview,
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episode 3, with educator Ron Hall from Valley Day School, Pennsylvania,
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on launching your neuroeducational program.
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Ron Hall mentioned it was today's guest who opened his mind to connecting the
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brain to his classrooms many years ago, and he's never looked back.
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Today we welcome back resiliency expert, author Horacio Sanchez to the podcast for the fourth time.
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We first met him on episode 74 on how to improve brain science to improve school climate,
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episode 111 next on finding solutions to the poverty problem,
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and again on episode 177 where we gathered a team of experts to dive into the
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most significant insights that they've noticed over the years in neuroscience.
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When we first met Horatio, we focused on his book, The Education Revolution,
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that was published by Corwin Press, that addresses the decline in empathy,
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increase in obesity, and the impact on implicit bias on minority students.
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Our conversation turned to focus on the problems we were seeing in the world
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at that moment, and that was July of 2020, highlighting the need for racial
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change through an understanding of race and culture.
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And I knew that Horacio was deep into his next book, The Poverty Problem,
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how education can promote resilience and counter poverty's impact on brain development
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that we went deep into on episode 74.
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Today, we meet with Horacio Sanchez to review his latest book,
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Unlocking School Bias, Using Neuroscience to Improve Student Outcomes,
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that was released in February of this year through Corwin Press.
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His most recent book, Unlocking School Bias,
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ends the confusion around bias and provides educators with research and strategies
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that enable them to effectively address bias in the classroom and school in
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appropriate and productive ways.
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In this book, you'll learn to explore your own and your students' biases,
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and you'll discover the latest research from psychology, education,
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and neuroscience. science.
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You'll uncover different types of biases, including confirmation bias and impact
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bias, and how they manifest themselves in everyday life with practical strategies
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for educators who are ready to change their and their students' actions.
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You'll learn about patterns in one's environment and how they create biases
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and affect the brain's development.
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Let's now meet Horacio Sanchez for the fourth time to the podcast and explore
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our own biases first and then see how this understanding can help us with our
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students in the classroom or with athletes we coach or in our workplaces.
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Welcome back to the podcast for the fourth time, Horacio. It's incredible to see you again.
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What have you been up to since I've spoken to you last?
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Let me see. I've done a lot of traveling, a lot of presentations,
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and I snuck a book in there.
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Awesome. So I've been following. I love following you on Instagram.
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I get to see the plane taking off.
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It's almost like there's an episode of like CSI Miami or something where they go wheels up.
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And they go to their next thing. I'm like, Horatio's wheels up.
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He's off. It's exciting to watch you.
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So, Horatio, I know that your next book is on biases in the schools,
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and I know that implicit bias came up in our very first interview,
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and I've had other guests talk about this topic.
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And I wonder what made you now write a book about unlocking school bias?
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Because of the confusion? Yeah.
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I think schools have spent an enormous amount of resources on this topic,
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and it actually has not been very fruitful.
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There's been a lot of research that shows that after the training,
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things are worse than when they were before the training.
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And then some research came out recently that showed that the only places that
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they've found that work on bias has been productive is when it focused on how
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the brain produces bias.
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And that's logical because if I understand how the brain does it and then I
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accept the data, then I'm willing to say, okay, that seems logical to me and
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I'm willing to do A, B, and C.
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While all the other approaches tend to
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say this is what's going on and you don't know it but it is true so let's do
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it and so it's just hard to accept and so there's so many misconceptions about
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bias and I also think a lot of the topic has been diluted into some very simplistic.
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One facet of bias and bias works as a very complex hole in the brain and unless
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you understand it is totality, you tend to make a lot of errors.
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Exactly. And I feel like that's where I was when I first learned about it and started to look at it.
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Was very shocked, you know, of the biases that I had that I didn't know I had.
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And even, you know, after reading the foreword by David Fink in your book,
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he mentions that he lived in a world where everyone around him constantly made
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assumptions about how people with dyslexia and ADHD thought,
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felt, and performed in school.
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So I, you know, coming from the classroom, just how students are feeling in the classroom.
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And he said, you can't dodge these assumptions that we know are biases.
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And he started to see things differently.
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And that's why he realized that he wanted to go into the work that he did,
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which was It's very powerful to open up your book like that.
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So what can we do to check ourselves every day to stop our subconscious mind
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from determining our thoughts and our behaviors around others?
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Well, I think...
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And this is where it gets, this is where it gets so complicated.
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You can't go through a day without some facet of bias influencing you.
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However, bias occurs pretty much subconsciously. So it occurs at 200 milliseconds or less.
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That means whatever biases you have, you're not aware of.
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You may be able to analyze backwards
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or you may be able to guess or make assumptions, but you're not aware.
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So you're asking someone to work on things that they don't know are true unless
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they believe they're true.
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And if you think about the range of bias, you can be biased by how hard your
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chair is that you're sitting in.
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Influencing how you would think at that moment. You can be biased by simple
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patterns in your environment that have been there for just a little while or a long period of time,
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and they just seep in, and all your brain is doing is saying, okay,
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these two things are constantly together, so let's make it easy.
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You think of one, you'll think of the other, but you don't have to even worry about it.
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We'll have it happen subconsciously. So your day is filled with a lot of decisions
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that are influenced by your subconscious brain.
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And so the only solution we know of is that if you can at least learn how the
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brain truly produces it and the full scope of bias, then you may have a way of saying, okay,
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then these things are logical and maybe I should do something about them.
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Okay. And so how do we, where do we even start?
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Like, let's think about how biases are impacting student well-being and achievement.
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Where would we start with, let's say, a teacher in the classroom,
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or you're a coach with your team, or even, you know, a manager in an office
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with a whole team of people?
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Like, how do we even begin in, you know, applying it to all realms, right? Okay.
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Let's just, let's think about, okay, what are we talking about?
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Let's take a student. Let's take a student like David. Let's say someone has dyslexia.
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A kid comes into elementary school. He's not diagnosed usually.
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He's just struggling. And what teachers are faced with every day is norming
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behaviors and academic performance.
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And the norming comes from the other kids. I got 30 kids. I started teaching.
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20 of it got it by this point.
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Another seven took a little longer.
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Two are really struggling and there's this one outlier that no matter what I'm
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doing, isn't moving at all.
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Right. So now he's very different.
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I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying and nothing I'm doing is working.
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So every time I work with the student, there is an association of this student
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failure, this student failure, this student failure.
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After a while, your brain is going to go. I look at David or I look at this
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student and my brain is automatically going to say failure.
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When we have these biases, one of the places that comes out is in our emotional cueing.
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So it is likely to be conveyed very subtly through face, hands,
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posture, gestures, or tone of voice, or all of the above or some of the above.
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So let's say now David is designed now to have an eye system that's supposed
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to pick up these little cueings, even if he doesn't know it.
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So he probably doesn't know it, but he's going to have a gut reaction and this
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gut reaction is going to say, this teacher doesn't think I can do this.
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Now, meanwhile, the teacher has said nothing. The teacher has been encouraging. The teacher is trying.
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Now, if you think about that, the minute he starts to have a negative outcome,
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our brain will weigh the negative outcome so much like it's going to be, oh, my God.
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And now the teacher starts to eventually believe he can't, not consciously,
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but subconsciously, because we have a thing called confirmation bias.
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Once we start seeing him fail repeatedly, our brain goes, well,
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he can't. And once you start believing he can't, your eye systems will only
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pick up failures and kind of miss little successes.
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And then your brain will go to what impact biases start to go.
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Oh, my God, if he doesn't make progress, I don't have the time.
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Oh, my God, I have 30 other kids. If I give him what he needs,
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I won't be able to teach the other kids.
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And all of this starts to really wait.
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And by the time you know, every time she looks at him, the student feels this. and it has a real impact.
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So if you think about David's story, isn't that unique?
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And I've heard him talk about it several times. And one of the things he mentioned was, guess what?
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When he was in elementary school, how the teachers treated him made him feel stupid.
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Now understand, do you think any teacher sat down and said to him,
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David, you're not that bright?
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No. He picked up on that And he, because of that, it impacted his behavior and his performance.
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So this is how...
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Bias works. And one of the only ways that we can do it then is if I know that,
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then I understand that, okay, in certain situations, I have to be conscious
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and very intentional on controlling face, hands,
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posture, gestures, and tone of voice to make sure I don't convey an unintentional
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message. And that takes work.
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Wow, this is good. This is really, really good.
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So same scenario, you've got, you're a coach, and you've got a player that,
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you know, same thing, you know, they're not getting a skill,
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same idea, or, you know, somebody in the workplace.
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They're not getting something, or, you know, they're being coached in some way.
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It's the same idea right it's how
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we talk to whoever we're
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working with what what they believe
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and oftentimes it has very little to do with
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your words it has far more to do with how our brains pick up meaning our brain
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picks up meaning not from words and people don't understand that i am designed
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to get the intention of your language through non-verbal cueing so me and you
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can know right now, I'm sitting down talking to you.
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And if you were to change your facial expression and say the same line three
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different ways, I would have three different interpretations of the same lie.
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So how we interpret language often has to do with your tonality,
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your facial expression, your gesture systems.
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And that is the first place that our brains allow the emotional brain to take
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over those parts of the body when we have any kind of subtle,
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subtle kinds of impressions of other people.
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And that's hard for us to believe because we think we're in control. Right.
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Well, how would we know if we are talking to a student or someone else and,
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and they're picking up on our subconscious bias?
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How, how would we, we don't. And that's why you have to say,
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okay, here are the places that I need to be certain that I am not.
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Because if it is subconscious, we're going to waste time trying to prove that we should know.
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But we can assume. One of the things that people don't know is bias lives in discomfort.
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So where you have a level of discomfort, there's a high probability you'll develop a bias.
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Let's say I'm uncomfortable going to this location.
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There's a high probability that I'm going to have a bias every time I go to that location.
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I'm uncomfortable when I'm in this room.
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I'm uncomfortable when I'm with this person.
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And discomfort for different people can be very different.
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For example, there are some people who are uncomfortable with people who are skinny.
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There are people who are uncomfortable with people overweight.
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There are people who are uncomfortable with people who are really smart.
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There are people uncomfortable with women.
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There are people uncomfortable with men. There are people uncomfortable with children.
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Wherever you have a level of discomfort, there's a high probability your brain
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will say there is bad things about this that every time you're there,
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your brain will put it together.
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And so where you have a level of discomfort, you should assume that your face, hands,
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body gestures, your tone of your voice, everything will convey your level of
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discomfort and others will pick it up and your level of discomfort will be validated
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more likely because of your attitude.
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So what happens if you were able to change that?
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Now, let's say now I assume I have a level of discomfort.
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If I would assume that I would change my face, hands, posture,
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gestures, and tone of voice, there's a high probability I would get a better feedback.
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And the better feedback will help me overcome my level of discomfort.
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So that's what makes bias an interesting formula that we need to consider,
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because oftentimes when we have bias,
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the biases end up being confirmed Because we send out such bad signals and we
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get confirmation back and then it goes from a bias to a reality that we actually
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had a very strong role in the outcome.
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There's so much in that that I was thinking, especially with schools,
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of where you feel comfortable versus where you don't.
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And in my line of work, I get to visit schools.
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And some schools on the outside look like not as nice as some of the other schools.
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And I could decide, oh, I'm not going to go into that school because of how it looks on the outside.
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But when you go on the inside, you see the people that are in the schools,
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the students learning, and you get a completely different picture of the school. Cool.
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So if we were to analyze this, my bias would be from the outside of the school
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looking in of what the school is performing like on the outside.
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And so people that don't go into the schools, I often hear the question,
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how are you handling these very difficult times with schools?
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And I actually see it differently because when you go inside the school,
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it's not always difficult.
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There's amazing things happening like you see when you go into a school.
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They're not all difficult times here. A lot of schools are thriving and lots
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of amazing things are happening.
00:19:17.317 --> 00:19:20.277
But from the outside, you can't tell. Right?
00:19:21.337 --> 00:19:27.337
Think about it. You like a lot of sports and you do a lot of studying on sports.
00:19:28.557 --> 00:19:32.817
And you also do a lot of work with corporations. So let's look at it this way.
00:19:33.897 --> 00:19:38.377
We know certain things about the most successful corporations in the world.
00:19:38.617 --> 00:19:41.917
They tend to have certain things in common. One of the things they tend to have
00:19:41.917 --> 00:19:46.657
in common is that they create a team atmosphere where everybody thinks they're part of the team.
00:19:47.257 --> 00:19:52.837
And the second thing they seem to do is they seem to have goals that everybody is bought into.
00:19:52.957 --> 00:19:55.657
So everyone thinks they're going the same direction.
00:19:57.277 --> 00:20:03.597
So if you go to those corporations, one of the things you find is there seems
00:20:03.597 --> 00:20:07.177
to be a thing called suspended bias in those corporations.
00:20:07.717 --> 00:20:10.857
Although the people on the team are different than each other,
00:20:11.057 --> 00:20:15.597
right now when you get into that environment, we're all on the same team.
00:20:15.817 --> 00:20:19.797
They're locking arms. And we're all going in the same direction.
00:20:20.277 --> 00:20:25.417
So what is a school that does this?
00:20:25.797 --> 00:20:31.137
Schools that create environments or climates where kids feel that I'm a part
00:20:31.137 --> 00:20:34.337
of the team, where the teachers think I'm a part of the team.
00:20:34.337 --> 00:20:39.957
And when they have unified goals We're going in this direction You walk into
00:20:39.957 --> 00:20:42.537
any school Regardless of what it looks like,
00:20:43.540 --> 00:20:47.040
If they have those elements, the school feels fine.
00:20:47.540 --> 00:20:54.480
But also understand some of the things that end up happening when you're in a climate like that.
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.200
You walk in and you're going to see a lot more people happy.
00:20:59.620 --> 00:21:05.600
Well, guess what? If your brain looks at someone who's happy,
00:21:05.840 --> 00:21:13.300
your mirror neurons mirror it, Your motor neurons actually activate to mirror
00:21:13.300 --> 00:21:15.220
the emotions they're expressing,
00:21:15.580 --> 00:21:19.980
the happy emotions they're expressing, either their face, their posture,
00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:22.080
their gesture systems, their voice tone.
00:21:22.780 --> 00:21:30.240
Once that happens, there's chemicals assigned to that expressions and it makes you feel better.
00:21:30.820 --> 00:21:36.980
So you can go to a school and how happy are the people in the school will predict
00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:38.640
to you how good the school is.
00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:45.080
Now, the fact that you had a bias of how the school looked and predicting what
00:21:45.080 --> 00:21:51.160
will happen inside is not unusual because your environment does bias you.
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:56.780
And so that school that does a good job with a bad environment is overcoming things.
00:21:56.860 --> 00:22:01.980
But it does have something to overcome because if, If I am sitting in a place
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:04.620
that tends to be not as clean,
00:22:04.860 --> 00:22:12.100
not as warm, not as many resources, that does bias the brain towards more negative thinking.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:17.480
While beautiful places, clean places, places of resources, biases the brain
00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:18.880
to more positive thinking.
00:22:19.220 --> 00:22:25.140
So those schools are doing a lot of amazing things to overcome their deficits.
00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:30.340
And we commend them, but they're overcoming something to get there.
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:35.980
It's easier to achieve that in a place that's beautiful, you know? Yeah.
00:22:36.580 --> 00:22:41.320
Oh, this is good. This is really good to think about all these different situations,
00:22:41.540 --> 00:22:44.420
especially applying it outside of schools.
00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:51.260
What are some common misconceptions about biases that are harmful that you see?
00:22:51.260 --> 00:22:58.820
Well, what happened with bias, it got so connected,
00:22:59.100 --> 00:23:07.280
it got co-opted into the issues of racism and bias and equity that people use
00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:09.200
the terms interchanged.
00:23:09.620 --> 00:23:16.500
And it started being a thing where bias and racism started to be interchangeable
00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:20.120
type of word, which is not logical.
00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:25.920
Okay, bias is a range of things, not only dealing with race,
00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:31.860
that has to do with how your brain had a subconscious reaction.
00:23:32.647 --> 00:23:37.287
You can have a bias that's actually against your values and your beliefs.
00:23:37.527 --> 00:23:41.907
It's just subconscious because of the patterns that are in your environment.
00:23:42.307 --> 00:23:49.647
Now, when people started equating bias to racism, it made it one step away from
00:23:49.647 --> 00:23:54.947
people being accusatory, saying, if you have a bias, then you're a racist.
00:23:55.227 --> 00:24:00.067
And now you have a person who's not aware they have a bias because it's subconscious
00:24:00.067 --> 00:24:03.307
and has a value system that's against that.
00:24:03.847 --> 00:24:09.767
If you label them with the term of racism, you can't even have a conversation
00:24:09.767 --> 00:24:14.567
because you started the whole conversation of bias at the level of contention.
00:24:14.607 --> 00:24:18.387
And you're wrong because bias and racism are not the same thing.
00:24:18.687 --> 00:24:22.187
So there's one misconception that constantly exists.
00:24:22.827 --> 00:24:28.287
Another one is people actually do believe that if I have strong values and beliefs,
00:24:28.287 --> 00:24:32.187
I will never have a bias that contradicts my strong values and beliefs.
00:24:32.407 --> 00:24:34.547
Well, your values and beliefs are cognitive.
00:24:34.787 --> 00:24:37.167
That's 600 milliseconds in conversation.
00:24:37.647 --> 00:24:45.527
Your biases are 200 milliseconds. You cannot have your beliefs and values co-opt your biases.
00:24:46.187 --> 00:24:51.667
It works the other way around. Your biases occur first, so it influences your beliefs and values.
00:24:51.847 --> 00:24:56.587
And so your beliefs and values are not a safeguard for not having a bias.
00:24:57.427 --> 00:25:01.527
And one of the other things that we wanted people to go, and we mentioned this
00:25:01.527 --> 00:25:06.827
a little earlier, is that if you just start to think of your levels of discomfort,
00:25:07.407 --> 00:25:12.247
that's one of the easiest ways to start to understand how bias works.
00:25:12.807 --> 00:25:16.067
Where are you uncomfortable? What causes you discomfort?
00:25:16.587 --> 00:25:21.307
Think of a germaphobe. A germaphobe is uncomfortable with anyone who's sick.
00:25:21.947 --> 00:25:28.407
After a while, they start, what place will a germaphobe be uncomfortable with? Oh my God, let's see.
00:25:28.867 --> 00:25:30.947
Hospitals? Oh, airplanes?
00:25:31.547 --> 00:25:36.527
And so, believe me, when you talk to the germaphobe, they're going to show strong
00:25:36.527 --> 00:25:38.067
biases against places like what?
00:25:38.387 --> 00:25:42.607
Being on a plane, going to a hospital. That's how bias works.
00:25:42.667 --> 00:25:47.987
So, I think you have at least some strategies to think about,
00:25:48.487 --> 00:25:53.747
okay, there is a high probability I develop biases in the places of discomfort.
00:25:54.107 --> 00:25:59.647
So if I, but if I understood how my brain produced it and I'm able to agree with that.
00:26:00.293 --> 00:26:04.173
Then I'm able to move forward and say, OK,
00:26:04.733 --> 00:26:09.453
I might need to do certain things in the areas that I have a level of discomfort,
00:26:09.793 --> 00:26:15.573
not weight, but preventative things so I can reduce the outcomes of my bias
00:26:15.573 --> 00:26:19.693
because my biases are probably intensifying my fears.
00:26:19.693 --> 00:26:23.853
So, can we look at our brain now?
00:26:24.153 --> 00:26:30.673
So, you know, you've covered a lot of how we can recognize that we all have biases.
00:26:30.993 --> 00:26:37.093
How can we now use neuroscience to understand how they're produced when it's
00:26:37.093 --> 00:26:41.473
probable? And I understand now the uncomfortable part.
00:26:41.633 --> 00:26:46.073
That makes so much sense. I'm going to like probably write down all the times
00:26:46.073 --> 00:26:52.313
and places I'm uncomfortable to really dig in because that ties into a lot,
00:26:52.713 --> 00:26:53.873
you know, making connections here.
00:26:54.113 --> 00:26:58.973
But then, you know, once we understand this, how can we now prepare ourselves
00:26:58.973 --> 00:27:01.033
to have an appropriate response?
00:27:01.893 --> 00:27:09.213
So let's think about one of the most pervasive biases because it's so common.
00:27:09.213 --> 00:27:13.573
The most pervasive bias that we know, other than, okay, you're born with three
00:27:13.573 --> 00:27:18.353
biases automatically, negative bias, confirmation bias, impact bias. You're born with those.
00:27:18.533 --> 00:27:23.973
The most pervasive bias that is cultivated is in-group preference.
00:27:24.633 --> 00:27:31.973
So the moment you became attached to mom and dad, you developed a thing called in-group preference.
00:27:32.253 --> 00:27:38.513
All that means is your brain got comfort from being with people who look like
00:27:38.513 --> 00:27:41.333
mom and dad and then extended to family.
00:27:41.813 --> 00:27:46.373
So for the rest of, and this happens around six months of life,
00:27:46.593 --> 00:27:51.273
usually by nine months, most kids have what is called an in-group preference.
00:27:52.673 --> 00:27:56.993
Now, think logically forward. The first thing you need to think about that is this.
00:27:57.493 --> 00:28:01.413
Your in-group preference was developed before you developed long-term memory.
00:28:01.553 --> 00:28:03.573
Long-term memory happens around age three.
00:28:04.193 --> 00:28:08.193
You developed the in-group preference around six months of life.
00:28:08.693 --> 00:28:14.233
That's overwhelming. Then you have, what are the ramifications of that?
00:28:14.453 --> 00:28:17.513
Well, one of the ramifications of that is when we bring people in,
00:28:17.693 --> 00:28:20.753
regardless of their ages, usually if
00:28:20.753 --> 00:28:23.933
we show them faces they react very
00:28:23.933 --> 00:28:27.193
differently to faces that look like theirs very calm
00:28:27.193 --> 00:28:32.353
and have an emotional negative reaction to faces that look different and that
00:28:32.353 --> 00:28:36.253
all came out of the in group none of this is conscious nope they're not aware
00:28:36.253 --> 00:28:43.133
of this they think it's fine okay so what are the other ramifications in real
00:28:43.133 --> 00:28:46.813
world life one of the ramifications is who you're attracted to.
00:28:47.113 --> 00:28:50.253
So they did some studies on.
00:28:51.130 --> 00:28:55.410
What makes up your inner close social network?
00:28:55.830 --> 00:29:01.550
And they found out across the world, most people's inner close social network
00:29:01.550 --> 00:29:03.510
looks pretty much like them.
00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:06.550
But understand why that is logical.
00:29:07.070 --> 00:29:12.470
You had an in-group bias as a child. You were drawn to people who looked like you.
00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:15.670
You have a higher level of comfort.
00:29:15.930 --> 00:29:19.390
That high level of comfort makes that interaction more positive.
00:29:19.390 --> 00:29:22.450
A lower level of comfort with other people that
00:29:22.450 --> 00:29:25.490
don't look like you that makes those interactions not
00:29:25.490 --> 00:29:28.990
as pleasant so it's natural then to cultivate the
00:29:28.990 --> 00:29:35.450
ones that you feel more comfortable with so now you you carry that out and one
00:29:35.450 --> 00:29:40.410
of the things we now know is then if i have a lower level of comfort with someone
00:29:40.410 --> 00:29:46.290
i tend to portray it subconsciously through my face hands posture gestures,
00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:48.950
and tone of voice. So now I'm at a decision.
00:29:49.610 --> 00:29:55.630
If the science shows all of this evidence that I am likely to portray negative
00:29:55.630 --> 00:29:58.470
cueing to people who don't look like me,
00:29:58.790 --> 00:30:05.170
then if I buy the science, I can say, okay, I don't have a conscious desire
00:30:05.170 --> 00:30:07.630
not to be liked by people who don't look like me.
00:30:08.210 --> 00:30:12.710
I've always thought I was doing a good job, but maybe I was it?
00:30:12.850 --> 00:30:16.790
So now I'm accepting that. So now I'm going to say, okay, I'm going to be more
00:30:16.790 --> 00:30:20.750
intentional with people who don't look like me, intentionally controlling my
00:30:20.750 --> 00:30:23.610
face, hands, posture, gestures, tone of voice.
00:30:23.910 --> 00:30:26.630
And some people say, well, that's phony. It's not going to work.
00:30:26.750 --> 00:30:32.130
It actually isn't because all the research shows if I am very intentional with
00:30:32.130 --> 00:30:35.210
outgroup people portraying positive cueing,
00:30:35.330 --> 00:30:42.210
what will eventually happen is my brain will start to actually wire that that's what I show.
00:30:42.430 --> 00:30:44.850
The minute that happens, guess what happens?
00:30:45.090 --> 00:30:48.870
My interactions with our group members gets better.
00:30:49.726 --> 00:30:53.846
And their response to me gets better and my response to them will get...
00:30:53.846 --> 00:30:58.186
And then my level of comfort keeps on going up because of confidence.
00:30:58.246 --> 00:31:05.286
And suddenly, I followed a science about something I was not aware of that I
00:31:05.286 --> 00:31:08.126
then validated through my behaviors.
00:31:08.726 --> 00:31:12.186
That's very different than me saying this other stuff.
00:31:12.406 --> 00:31:18.886
And so that is, on an interpersonal level, that is what I can start to think
00:31:18.886 --> 00:31:26.586
about. But once again, don't forget all the other aspects of a bias that occurred, okay?
00:31:27.386 --> 00:31:35.746
If I don't understand the science and I have these subtle negative cues with
00:31:35.746 --> 00:31:41.406
other people and they respond to me more negative, their response to me is going to be compounded.
00:31:41.586 --> 00:31:46.246
When we hook people under fMRI and we looked at what is a positive experience
00:31:46.246 --> 00:31:50.346
in their brain and what's a negative experience, the positive really does a
00:31:50.346 --> 00:31:52.466
surge in your brain that's actually very good.
00:31:52.886 --> 00:31:58.426
The negative in a ratio of activity is five times higher.
00:31:58.606 --> 00:32:01.886
So a negative is more compounded to our brain.
00:32:02.046 --> 00:32:07.146
So now think about a person who doesn't do this and when they do get negative
00:32:07.146 --> 00:32:11.406
response back in their gut, it's going to be compounded.
00:32:11.706 --> 00:32:16.926
And if they continue to do this and it happens time after time after time again,
00:32:17.126 --> 00:32:21.486
without them ever thinking they did anything wrong, what are they going to start having?
00:32:21.646 --> 00:32:24.126
They're going to start having a belief that.
00:32:24.879 --> 00:32:28.259
This is different. And these people are kind of different.
00:32:28.479 --> 00:32:32.959
And once that belief happens, their eye system, confirmation bias,
00:32:33.179 --> 00:32:37.179
connects to the largest feature of our eyes, scanning feature, micro-sarcades.
00:32:37.459 --> 00:32:43.059
And it scans the environment to confirm our beliefs. So I will actually spot
00:32:43.059 --> 00:32:47.179
things that will make my beliefs stronger and miss contradictions.
00:32:47.739 --> 00:32:53.719
So there, once again, it's going to get worse. And then my impact bias will
00:32:53.719 --> 00:32:56.919
roll in and I'm going to start to then predict bad things.
00:32:57.059 --> 00:33:01.599
And the minute your brain predicts bad things, you subconsciously contribute
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:07.319
to the prediction without even trying. So we now have a very simple thing.
00:33:07.479 --> 00:33:11.599
We started out with an in-group preference that came out of love for mom and
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:17.259
dad, start to compound a comfort level for some, a lower comfort level for others,
00:33:17.399 --> 00:33:20.899
and then it's compounded by all the other things our brain does.
00:33:20.899 --> 00:33:26.059
And it becomes a reality that we just then will change our, we'll start to modify
00:33:26.059 --> 00:33:32.599
our behavior to go interact here with great comfort and over here will not be as comfortable.
00:33:33.019 --> 00:33:38.319
Everybody goes to the area of comfort because the human brain really does like comfort.
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:45.139
So that was chapter one of your book, The Birth of Bias.
00:33:45.219 --> 00:33:50.679
And it helped me to understand the fear of strangers,
00:33:50.899 --> 00:33:57.019
that occurs early in life, and you did tie it to the classrooms,
00:33:57.019 --> 00:34:01.719
and I was thinking of all the different times that I've been speaking to a group,
00:34:01.719 --> 00:34:03.319
whether it's been a presentation,
00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:08.239
who am I speaking to, who am I locking eyes with in the room,
00:34:08.339 --> 00:34:13.559
or smaller groups, when you have maybe five or six people in the room,
00:34:13.819 --> 00:34:23.419
am I focused on the leader or somebody I'm comfortable with more than I am the others.
00:34:23.999 --> 00:34:29.579
And so just thinking about all different scenarios of how I might be,
00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:37.519
how I could improve this in-group bias in speaking to groups or teaching in classrooms.
00:34:38.139 --> 00:34:43.039
It is so complicated because it is so subtle.
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:49.519
You don't know, okay, your car isn't, Your car isn't working right,
00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:52.879
but you're unaware of it. Do you fix it before you're unaware?
00:34:53.439 --> 00:34:59.539
It's irrational. So if bias is subconscious, who's addressing it? Nobody.
00:34:59.959 --> 00:35:06.019
And when we ran out with this flag that said bias,
00:35:06.339 --> 00:35:12.019
we're taking bias more intentional in nature, we actually killed the entire
00:35:12.019 --> 00:35:16.879
science because we caused it to be a hammer rather than an explanation.
00:35:16.879 --> 00:35:23.939
And the explanation of bias and all the range of things that it is.
00:35:24.808 --> 00:35:29.128
Will help us be better. And I think that's something that we need to consider.
00:35:29.568 --> 00:35:36.708
Got it. So just me being aware of connecting more with people who are not in
00:35:36.708 --> 00:35:38.468
my in-group would be enough.
00:35:38.968 --> 00:35:42.528
Would be a huge step. It will change the quality of your life.
00:35:42.688 --> 00:35:48.088
But if you also, but no, I mean, you read the book and I spent an entire chapter
00:35:48.088 --> 00:35:53.148
on things like negative bias because Because negative bias can be overwhelming,
00:35:53.148 --> 00:35:56.308
and it has nothing to do with just people.
00:35:56.568 --> 00:36:00.008
Negative bias has to do with everything, attitudes, beliefs,
00:36:00.228 --> 00:36:05.608
and to the point where negative bias is here because it's supposed to help us stay alive.
00:36:05.608 --> 00:36:09.468
It's supposed to make us better survivors. But if
00:36:09.468 --> 00:36:14.808
you start to think about quality of life There is a level of negative bias that's
00:36:14.808 --> 00:36:19.368
healthy But there's also that level of negative bias that isn't Some people
00:36:19.368 --> 00:36:26.108
get so overwhelmed by their negative bias That they stop looking at the positive And as a result,
00:36:26.288 --> 00:36:30.228
their negativity gets more compounded If you look at that,
00:36:30.748 --> 00:36:37.548
quality of life also is impacted All the research says contentment has more
00:36:37.548 --> 00:36:42.968
to do with your internal condition than external factors So if my internal condition
00:36:42.968 --> 00:36:44.928
is continuously focused on the negative.
00:36:45.828 --> 00:36:47.428
Am I a content person?
00:36:47.488 --> 00:36:51.548
There's a good probability not only are you not a content person You're a miserable
00:36:51.548 --> 00:36:56.228
person And a miserable person is going to give out miserable signals And guess
00:36:56.228 --> 00:36:57.208
what they're going to get back?
00:36:57.388 --> 00:37:02.768
A miserable world And they're going to get full evidence that the world is lousy
00:37:02.768 --> 00:37:06.328
because they're doing so many things that cause a lousy world.
00:37:06.568 --> 00:37:13.508
And so, and that's just negative bias. Now you put negative bias with other things like change.
00:37:13.728 --> 00:37:21.348
Change is hard for the brain or, or a group of people that you're not comfortable
00:37:21.348 --> 00:37:26.768
with or a location that you don't want to, or a change in your skin.
00:37:26.768 --> 00:37:31.668
Anything that causes that discomfort, negative bias just booms.
00:37:31.928 --> 00:37:36.468
And it's the people who understand this that can go, well, I need them to be
00:37:36.468 --> 00:37:38.968
more conscious of being more positive.
00:37:39.528 --> 00:37:44.348
And I think if we start to understand things in those ways, then we can have
00:37:44.348 --> 00:37:46.628
a yin and a yang to this and have some balance.
00:37:46.968 --> 00:37:49.648
Let me give you a really concrete example in the classroom.
00:37:50.488 --> 00:37:55.688
A student acts out, the moment the student acts out, if it caused me to be,
00:37:55.808 --> 00:38:01.228
oh my God, and I got a level of anxiety in the situation.
00:38:02.176 --> 00:38:08.516
My micro sarcaste, my eye systems will start to scan that student like 28% more than other students.
00:38:08.856 --> 00:38:11.016
That means I'll catch that student more.
00:38:11.496 --> 00:38:16.176
That means every time he does something, I'm catching him more than the other student.
00:38:16.536 --> 00:38:20.076
The student is going to think I'm picking on him and the student is going to act out more.
00:38:20.516 --> 00:38:24.196
If I know this and I understand how bias works,
00:38:24.356 --> 00:38:28.776
the minute that student showed out as a disciplinary problem,
00:38:28.776 --> 00:38:34.056
Me as a teacher now says one of my strategies to help the student is to be intentional
00:38:34.056 --> 00:38:40.496
in reinforcing when that student is on task because I'm already automatically
00:38:40.496 --> 00:38:41.756
going to catch his bad stuff.
00:38:42.196 --> 00:38:46.836
I'm going to miss his good stuff. So I now have to have a strategy that says he acted out.
00:38:47.076 --> 00:38:51.876
I need to be intentional in saying, oh, thanks for being on task today.
00:38:52.016 --> 00:38:52.856
Thanks for doing the work.
00:38:53.116 --> 00:38:58.136
You're doing really well today. Those things will help us because it balances
00:38:58.136 --> 00:39:03.716
the scales that we didn't even know are imbalanced because this is all happening subconsciously.
00:39:03.816 --> 00:39:06.796
That teacher doesn't know that she's actually monitoring that kid more.
00:39:07.016 --> 00:39:08.756
It's completely subconscious.
00:39:09.056 --> 00:39:13.836
But if I know the science, I go, kids acting out, I'm going to monitor more.
00:39:14.116 --> 00:39:17.416
Let me be intentional in balancing the scales.
00:39:18.036 --> 00:39:25.396
And that was chapter two, the glass is half empty on the negativity bias of your book here.
00:39:25.616 --> 00:39:29.376
And I thought it was pretty interesting because I always try and err,
00:39:29.536 --> 00:39:32.116
like we talked in the beginning, on the positive side of things.
00:39:32.116 --> 00:39:37.656
And it's really interesting when you, it's just life. You get a piece of feedback.
00:39:37.956 --> 00:39:42.436
You know, you did this great, this great. You could improve on that. I'm like, wait, what?
00:39:43.316 --> 00:39:46.536
I didn't even hear the rest of it.
00:39:46.716 --> 00:39:51.756
It's just so interesting how it's like, wait, what? Let's go back to that.
00:39:52.016 --> 00:39:55.816
And trying to get them to change their mind that they didn't really see that.
00:39:55.976 --> 00:39:58.576
It's, why is it like that?
00:39:59.356 --> 00:40:04.916
And to show you so bad, people who are chemically imbalanced tend to hear things
00:40:04.916 --> 00:40:06.876
and react to things that didn't even occur.
00:40:07.696 --> 00:40:11.896
So when I train, if there's 2,000 people out there, there's the chance that
00:40:11.896 --> 00:40:14.116
you're going to have one or two people who are chemically imbalanced.
00:40:14.376 --> 00:40:17.096
And they will react to things that were not even said.
00:40:19.996 --> 00:40:23.796
And I understand that because I know their condition.
00:40:23.796 --> 00:40:31.576
And, but it really tells us that we as, we as a culture, we as a world need
00:40:31.576 --> 00:40:35.856
to understand that we have to be intentional in looking at things,
00:40:35.956 --> 00:40:37.576
but, but let's understand this.
00:40:38.249 --> 00:40:43.369
This is not positivity. This is saying it will change your brain chemistry.
00:40:43.369 --> 00:40:44.829
It will change your life.
00:40:45.229 --> 00:40:50.429
One of the best lessons we can give students is if you can change your perceptions
00:40:50.429 --> 00:40:54.109
of things to be more positive, the world changes.
00:40:54.489 --> 00:40:58.929
And that's not just, oh, you're being positive. The world changes.
00:40:59.189 --> 00:41:03.509
So the first thing we know in the brain is if I look at things more positively,
00:41:03.749 --> 00:41:07.629
my brain secretes better chemicals to help me be seeing better balance.
00:41:08.249 --> 00:41:12.449
Well, let's go in outcomes. Let's go, okay, let's look at Archer's work.
00:41:12.929 --> 00:41:18.369
Archer's looked at companies and found out if I can make people more positive
00:41:18.369 --> 00:41:22.109
about what they're doing and look at their tasks more positively,
00:41:22.409 --> 00:41:24.609
they will be what? More productive.
00:41:25.909 --> 00:41:31.489
And he increased company productivity by just changing how people looked at
00:41:31.489 --> 00:41:34.929
their tasks by being more positive at outlook of what they're doing.
00:41:34.929 --> 00:41:39.109
And it didn't matter what they were doing because they could be cleaning hotels.
00:41:39.449 --> 00:41:44.449
If they could change the framework and had them feel more positive about what
00:41:44.449 --> 00:41:47.149
they were doing, the outcome changed.
00:41:47.289 --> 00:41:51.449
But also not only the outcome changed, the productivity changed,
00:41:51.909 --> 00:41:56.069
the income levels of the hotel industry changed that they did it.
00:41:56.609 --> 00:42:02.149
Everything changed in relation to that. And so there is more evidence than we'll
00:42:02.149 --> 00:42:07.069
ever want to know on the fact that there's a level of positivity that's healthy for us,
00:42:07.169 --> 00:42:12.129
but also is required for us to be really productive creatures. Absolutely.
00:42:12.729 --> 00:42:19.429
And so the second part of chapter two, The Glasses Half Empty,
00:42:19.729 --> 00:42:27.469
I wondered, because I came across an example from the book on change in my day-to-day experience.
00:42:27.469 --> 00:42:32.969
So what can we do to help us through change, knowing that it's hard for the
00:42:32.969 --> 00:42:39.089
human brain as there's so much change like in education right now, in the world?
00:42:40.069 --> 00:42:43.229
I think the first thing people have to understand is what is change.
00:42:43.469 --> 00:42:48.469
Change usually is stopping something and doing something new.
00:42:49.989 --> 00:42:53.769
So let's say you're stopping something that you've been doing for a while.
00:42:53.929 --> 00:42:56.029
Whatever you're doing for a while is a habit.
00:42:56.369 --> 00:43:02.409
That means every time I do it, my brain produces dopamine, which actually increases my homeostasis.
00:43:02.409 --> 00:43:08.029
And it's a productive hormone that is secreted when it's secreted in the nucleus
00:43:08.029 --> 00:43:11.929
accumbens. So dopamine there is wonderful. Okay.
00:43:12.689 --> 00:43:18.249
So let's say I stopped doing that and I was doing this habit three times a day in the classroom.
00:43:18.749 --> 00:43:23.389
Every time I did it, I got dopamine. Now you stopping me from doing that and
00:43:23.389 --> 00:43:24.509
you want me to do something new.
00:43:25.763 --> 00:43:30.743
The moment you stop me, you have changed my brain chemistry because I'm conditioned
00:43:30.743 --> 00:43:33.143
to receiving those doses of dopamine.
00:43:33.783 --> 00:43:39.823
Now the new thing, all new things require greater level of focus and energy because it's new.
00:43:40.183 --> 00:43:43.583
That means it's going to take, it's going to be more taxing on my brain.
00:43:43.723 --> 00:43:49.023
So now I'm doing this new more taxing thing and I don't feel as great because I lost my dopamine.
00:43:49.443 --> 00:43:54.083
Now let's say things start to get stressful in my school environment.
00:43:54.083 --> 00:43:57.363
My natural inclination would be to
00:43:57.363 --> 00:44:00.883
retreat to the old thing and
00:44:00.883 --> 00:44:03.703
it'll go make me feel better and then i'm going to think the new thing
00:44:03.703 --> 00:44:07.123
was terrible now let's go
00:44:07.123 --> 00:44:10.703
to microsoft microsoft makes major
00:44:10.703 --> 00:44:13.823
changes and never puts out any kind of
00:44:13.823 --> 00:44:16.703
stuff that says hey we're going to make a major change don't get mad
00:44:16.703 --> 00:44:19.603
microsoft just does it and doesn't care you know why
00:44:19.603 --> 00:44:22.483
because the minute did they put out a change there
00:44:22.483 --> 00:44:25.463
are forums all over the country to come out worst change in
00:44:25.463 --> 00:44:28.763
the world don't take the it's terrible and
00:44:28.763 --> 00:44:32.083
microsoft just ignores them because they know one thing about technology
00:44:32.083 --> 00:44:35.143
today whether you like to change you don't you
00:44:35.143 --> 00:44:39.323
interact so much with your computer in a matter of two weeks the new thing will
00:44:39.323 --> 00:44:46.363
become habit right right so here's what i know i know that that old habit you
00:44:46.363 --> 00:44:49.383
lost at one time was new right it didn't
00:44:49.383 --> 00:44:52.523
get dopamine it gave you dopamine eventually when you did it enough.
00:44:53.003 --> 00:44:58.363
So here is what I know as a person who knows the science. You give me a change.
00:44:58.863 --> 00:45:05.683
If I engage in the change long enough, it will actually be okay with me and it'll be fine.
00:45:06.663 --> 00:45:10.043
Is the change good? I don't know. Is the change bad? I don't know.
00:45:10.543 --> 00:45:15.443
But one of the things that I do know is resilient people adapt quickly.
00:45:15.643 --> 00:45:20.543
And you know why resilient of people adapt quickly because they're able to engage
00:45:20.543 --> 00:45:23.763
in new things and get dopamine faster.
00:45:24.363 --> 00:45:31.883
So instead of avoidance, dive. I mean, the best outcomes in schools are when
00:45:31.883 --> 00:45:34.403
people are all going in the same direction.
00:45:34.943 --> 00:45:38.903
So we're not going to agree always on what that direction is.
00:45:39.023 --> 00:45:40.863
We're not going to agree in the methodology.
00:45:41.083 --> 00:45:46.563
But if we all just understand that the schools that actually have everyone engaging.
00:45:46.823 --> 00:45:50.343
And if you engage in it consistently, it becomes easy.
00:45:50.583 --> 00:45:56.943
The schools that do that have great outcomes, but people are constantly battling on the level of.
00:45:57.649 --> 00:46:02.489
It's so new and it doesn't feel right. It's always going to not feel right.
00:46:02.609 --> 00:46:09.089
But what makes change hard is that our body, our whole homeostasis system is
00:46:09.089 --> 00:46:11.069
designed to maintain balance.
00:46:11.269 --> 00:46:14.809
And one of the elements that maintains balance is familiarity,
00:46:15.189 --> 00:46:16.509
the things I've always done.
00:46:16.869 --> 00:46:21.909
And the minute you change that, it is how quickly I can regain balance.
00:46:21.909 --> 00:46:28.329
So for me, avoiding change is not always the healthiest thing because some changes
00:46:28.329 --> 00:46:30.669
can be good and change is a part of life.
00:46:30.909 --> 00:46:35.989
It is knowing that all I have to be able to do to be successful with change is do what?
00:46:36.249 --> 00:46:39.389
Do it consistently enough to get my dopamine back.
00:46:39.629 --> 00:46:45.929
And so instead of avoidance, jump. And if you do that, life becomes very easy
00:46:45.929 --> 00:46:47.189
and you find yourself adapting.
00:46:47.489 --> 00:46:50.569
It is at that moment that you can evaluate the change.
00:46:50.749 --> 00:46:55.789
After I've jumped and I've done it, then I find out, well, this change has been effective.
00:46:55.969 --> 00:47:00.189
This change has not been effective, but I haven't sabotaged the change.
00:47:00.309 --> 00:47:04.569
And that's one of the reasons change doesn't work and is often not effective.
00:47:04.909 --> 00:47:09.849
I would hate to tell you the data on school change because we don't have any.
00:47:10.889 --> 00:47:13.849
And the reason we don't have any data is because schools don't
00:47:13.849 --> 00:47:17.189
keep jada and change but if you think empirically because
00:47:17.189 --> 00:47:19.969
you've worked in enough schools we know a number of schools
00:47:19.969 --> 00:47:23.149
that tried to change started to change started
00:47:23.149 --> 00:47:27.429
to change and the reason we're doing this constantly is because we're having
00:47:27.429 --> 00:47:32.289
debates about the change and we're fighting it so much because schools are such
00:47:32.289 --> 00:47:37.449
an environment that maintaining the continuity that makes us feel good because
00:47:37.449 --> 00:47:42.749
there's enough changing with kids and all this stuff every day that we hold on to those things.
00:47:42.909 --> 00:47:47.209
But if we understood it, we could actually make some changes. And I think,
00:47:47.918 --> 00:47:53.038
We're at a place where we have to consider making some changes in schools for
00:47:53.038 --> 00:47:58.038
kids because for the first time in history, kids' brains are significantly different
00:47:58.038 --> 00:48:00.738
than yours and your parents.
00:48:00.998 --> 00:48:05.418
And that says we're teaching a new brand of kid.
00:48:05.918 --> 00:48:11.418
And we need to think about that. And we need to make some degree of changes.
00:48:12.138 --> 00:48:16.338
And if we don't make those changes, we're not going to be fighting our systems,
00:48:16.518 --> 00:48:18.638
but we're also going to be fighting the kids' brains.
00:48:18.898 --> 00:48:23.158
And that's not where we want to be. But some fights for the kids' brains might be good.
00:48:24.078 --> 00:48:28.598
So going into Chapter 3, believe it or not, on confirmation bias,
00:48:28.758 --> 00:48:32.118
you cover how our brain is programmed to see things in the environment that
00:48:32.118 --> 00:48:33.838
support our existing beliefs.
00:48:33.838 --> 00:48:38.058
And that research shows that teachers' beliefs about students might be the strongest
00:48:38.058 --> 00:48:40.978
predictor of outcomes. And we talked about this in the very beginning.
00:48:41.418 --> 00:48:45.298
Just reminding me of David Fink, what he wrote in his foreword.
00:48:45.598 --> 00:48:52.858
So how can we combat confirmation bias and update our own belief systems?
00:48:52.898 --> 00:48:54.978
How do you suggest we do this?
00:48:55.618 --> 00:49:04.298
The problem with belief systems is that, okay, let's first start about the beauty of our belief systems.
00:49:05.038 --> 00:49:10.418
Our belief systems are designed that once we have a belief, our brain is designed to protect.
00:49:11.598 --> 00:49:14.618
That is important to me because it is
00:49:14.618 --> 00:49:17.758
that belief that got us got a sailor
00:49:17.758 --> 00:49:22.378
to go past a certain level in the ocean and believe he wasn't going to fall
00:49:22.378 --> 00:49:27.938
off the face of the earth because the earth was flat at that time it got two
00:49:27.938 --> 00:49:32.398
brothers to jump off a cliff and think they could fly it got us to the moon
00:49:32.398 --> 00:49:37.218
so that ability to protect what we believe against all odds is a beautiful thing.
00:49:38.198 --> 00:49:43.198
The problem is we need to understand that once we have that,
00:49:43.418 --> 00:49:50.218
we tend to spot things in our environment to support our belief and miss the contradictions.
00:49:50.698 --> 00:49:59.598
That is one thing. We also need to know that we are actually very dishonest about our beliefs.
00:49:59.898 --> 00:50:03.078
Oftentimes, our beliefs are changing constantly.
00:50:04.078 --> 00:50:09.018
And sometimes we started out with a belief, it changed, and then we say,
00:50:09.178 --> 00:50:11.378
what? I always believed this would happen.
00:50:11.578 --> 00:50:17.998
And so we're not very, our level of integrity with this stuff is not well measured, is not sinister.
00:50:17.998 --> 00:50:23.158
It's just that our memories are terrible and our beliefs are constantly changing
00:50:23.158 --> 00:50:30.038
and our memories are constantly changing and our belief systems are not as refined
00:50:30.038 --> 00:50:32.338
as we once thought it was. And so...
00:50:33.236 --> 00:50:39.496
I now have this thing and I actually, instead of fighting it and instead of
00:50:39.496 --> 00:50:42.056
doing on this stuff, I'm going to lean into it.
00:50:42.356 --> 00:50:47.516
The power of belief is more important than what the negative things the belief does for us.
00:50:47.676 --> 00:50:51.376
So if the power of belief that got us to the moon is that powerful.
00:50:51.696 --> 00:50:59.116
Then the data on when teachers believe in students, the outcomes are consistently
00:50:59.116 --> 00:51:02.016
better is something I should lean into.
00:51:02.016 --> 00:51:09.476
And so when I think about confirmation bias, rather than thinking about running
00:51:09.476 --> 00:51:15.556
from it, I think about leaning into it saying, okay, if I believe the best,
00:51:15.856 --> 00:51:18.136
the best is more likely to happen.
00:51:18.136 --> 00:51:24.536
And for the other stuff, one of the other things I always tell people is I look for contradictions.
00:51:24.776 --> 00:51:30.216
I just do. And it's gotten so much in my life that I look for contradictions
00:51:30.216 --> 00:51:36.616
in my belief areas. So I know I'm going to protect my beliefs.
00:51:36.896 --> 00:51:41.516
So I used to go, someone would say something that was against my belief and
00:51:41.516 --> 00:51:43.276
I'll automatically discount it.
00:51:43.476 --> 00:51:49.676
And now I'm at the place where I try to hear it and sometimes investigate it
00:51:49.676 --> 00:51:57.496
to see if it's true. Because what ends up happening is all believers are running towards their belief.
00:51:57.696 --> 00:52:05.016
And with social media now, we get to boost our beliefs so strongly because we
00:52:05.016 --> 00:52:07.396
always have a forum for amen.
00:52:07.836 --> 00:52:14.576
And what's happening is our tolerance to entertain variants is dropping.
00:52:14.576 --> 00:52:19.356
So now when there's variance, people are getting angry at variance.
00:52:19.556 --> 00:52:21.476
You disagree with me? You don't believe?
00:52:22.436 --> 00:52:28.996
And I think if I understand my brain's protection for my beliefs and my tendencies,
00:52:29.056 --> 00:52:32.696
it got me to be more comfortable in investigating.
00:52:32.696 --> 00:52:37.896
And I also found out when I did that, one of the things I really found out is
00:52:37.896 --> 00:52:44.916
that there is a subconscious fear of investigating something that you don't believe in.
00:52:45.376 --> 00:52:49.676
It's almost like a fear that what happens if your belief isn't right.
00:52:49.856 --> 00:52:53.456
And there's science behind that because when you lose a belief,
00:52:53.716 --> 00:52:57.716
it often has to be replaced for you to get your homeostasis back.
00:52:58.296 --> 00:53:02.056
And I think so. I think people are afraid of losing their beliefs too.
00:53:02.056 --> 00:53:06.556
And so getting over the fear of that has helped me start to have a greater tolerance.
00:53:06.776 --> 00:53:11.816
So now I hear someone who has a very different belief than me and I go, hmm.
00:53:12.236 --> 00:53:17.596
And then I sometimes go, let me check that out rather than that's not true.
00:53:18.508 --> 00:53:21.648
Yeah, this is really good.
00:53:21.828 --> 00:53:27.248
I just have to ask you this one question, because as I was investigating this
00:53:27.248 --> 00:53:28.388
and looking at, you know,
00:53:28.468 --> 00:53:33.748
all these subconscious biases, it made me think about when I had a meeting with
00:53:33.748 --> 00:53:37.348
an episode way back, 84. it was Dr.
00:53:37.508 --> 00:53:41.568
Shane Creato who works with Dr. Amen's offices. He was the one,
00:53:41.808 --> 00:53:43.828
the technician that was looking at my brain.
00:53:44.168 --> 00:53:47.908
And he saw some things in my brain scan that he said, you know,
00:53:48.028 --> 00:53:49.568
we got to work on your sleep.
00:53:49.728 --> 00:53:53.928
And for sure, I've been working on that for the past, I don't even know,
00:53:54.068 --> 00:53:55.428
like eight or nine years.
00:53:55.628 --> 00:54:00.728
But he saw something in the brain scan and he asked me, Andrea,
00:54:00.928 --> 00:54:02.908
have you ever done shadow work.
00:54:03.108 --> 00:54:07.988
And I thought, what is that? And so I'm, of course, Googling shadow work,
00:54:08.108 --> 00:54:10.548
and I came across Carl Jung's work.
00:54:10.668 --> 00:54:14.308
But I wonder, how does our subconscious biases,
00:54:14.728 --> 00:54:19.788
how are they similar to maybe our shadow side or things about ourselves that
00:54:19.788 --> 00:54:27.528
we hide, but once we can learn about them, we can work on them and be better people.
00:54:27.708 --> 00:54:30.248
Are they kind of similar? Okay.
00:54:31.268 --> 00:54:37.528
We probably should define shadow side for the working audience here.
00:54:38.028 --> 00:54:43.488
Shadow side is basically a way of saying that deep in our subconscious,
00:54:43.748 --> 00:54:47.668
we often have some, in many cases,
00:54:47.908 --> 00:54:50.348
trauma, but I don't want to use that word because it's so overused,
00:54:50.348 --> 00:55:01.388
events or experiences that cause us to have spots that are influencing our reactions
00:55:01.388 --> 00:55:04.648
to life that we're unaware they're happening.
00:55:05.028 --> 00:55:10.728
So there are things in our, in our heads that are actually getting in there,
00:55:11.108 --> 00:55:14.648
subtly changing our response to the world.
00:55:14.948 --> 00:55:17.708
Yeah. So that's a, that's an interesting way of
00:55:17.708 --> 00:55:20.628
saying bias so it's the same exact thing
00:55:20.628 --> 00:55:23.468
yeah and and
00:55:23.468 --> 00:55:32.768
i think i think if you go back to negative bias negative bias occurred before
00:55:32.768 --> 00:55:39.648
you have long-term memory and so it showed you how something can happen that
00:55:39.648 --> 00:55:42.988
you don't remember that influences your actions Well,
00:55:43.388 --> 00:55:45.388
that's the same thing that he's referring to.
00:55:45.628 --> 00:55:51.688
There are things that happen that can be so significant and they constantly
00:55:51.688 --> 00:55:53.928
are attaching themselves to
00:55:53.928 --> 00:55:58.648
things in your daily life that are influencing your response to the world.
00:55:59.128 --> 00:56:02.328
So what bias is saying that.
00:56:02.917 --> 00:56:06.297
Many kind of biases basically act the same way.
00:56:06.457 --> 00:56:09.377
They almost are a shadow side of the world.
00:56:09.537 --> 00:56:15.137
Where are we acting to the world based on things that are happening in our brains
00:56:15.137 --> 00:56:16.657
without us being aware of them?
00:56:17.317 --> 00:56:24.897
And so being aware or understanding it better makes us people who are more capable,
00:56:25.137 --> 00:56:32.277
one of change, but two of also coming to grips with some of those issues.
00:56:32.277 --> 00:56:34.857
Or the possibility of those issues.
00:56:35.077 --> 00:56:38.417
And I think that's good.
00:56:39.077 --> 00:56:46.037
But I've always been one to try not to get too much insight-oriented with life
00:56:46.037 --> 00:56:50.037
because as a clinician, when I was a therapist,
00:56:50.357 --> 00:56:55.497
one of the things I strongly believe in is that therapy should be active.
00:56:55.917 --> 00:57:04.737
And instead of focusing on what the issues are, I know actions can change the issues.
00:57:05.277 --> 00:57:09.657
So it's the same way that you, to me, depression, one of the best ways to deal
00:57:09.657 --> 00:57:14.137
with depression is not dwelling on things that are causing depression,
00:57:14.137 --> 00:57:17.857
but engaging actions that make your brain happier.
00:57:18.297 --> 00:57:23.937
And so, because think about what depression does, it actually robs you of activities.
00:57:23.937 --> 00:57:29.297
It takes you away from those things and it makes your brain go more chemically
00:57:29.297 --> 00:57:30.417
imbalanced, more chemically.
00:57:30.637 --> 00:57:33.517
And those things counteract those things.
00:57:33.677 --> 00:57:39.737
So it's getting back to doing things that make you better, make you more chemically
00:57:39.737 --> 00:57:43.777
feel better, that is one active way of dealing with an issue.
00:57:43.937 --> 00:57:48.057
And so I like the idea of attacking things. And that's why I said,
00:57:48.197 --> 00:57:51.217
if you really understand bias, then you're able to start to say,
00:57:51.337 --> 00:57:56.517
I have an attack plan for how bias could negatively impact in my life,
00:57:56.517 --> 00:57:58.617
rather than living life going.
00:57:59.685 --> 00:58:03.125
Bias is occurring, it's impacting my life, and I'm completely unaware.
00:58:03.385 --> 00:58:04.965
And I think that's where most people are.
00:58:05.625 --> 00:58:10.525
Exactly. This is really cool to open our eyes to unlocking school bias and then
00:58:10.525 --> 00:58:13.505
connecting it to our sports and our workplaces.
00:58:13.625 --> 00:58:18.325
I really like the graphic that our good friend Julie Porter did for you.
00:58:18.505 --> 00:58:22.405
I'm going to put that in the show notes because it walks through each of the chapters.
00:58:22.825 --> 00:58:28.705
She did one for me. She's just amazing. Tying in each chapter, right? She's great.
00:58:28.945 --> 00:58:35.525
And if you understand brain science of learning, one of the ways that we can
00:58:35.525 --> 00:58:39.765
help people learn is having the information come through different sensory points.
00:58:39.925 --> 00:58:44.245
And I think the visuals are so easy for the brain to connect to.
00:58:44.765 --> 00:58:48.805
And it helps you move along in a different way.
00:58:48.985 --> 00:58:53.405
And so she's basically applying a form of brain science to learning.
00:58:53.605 --> 00:58:55.485
And it's wonderful. It's true.
00:58:55.725 --> 00:58:59.545
I love it. I put that in there. And then just some final thoughts of,
00:58:59.765 --> 00:59:04.425
you know, just to close out this episode, Harashio, it's been so insightful and helpful.
00:59:04.865 --> 00:59:10.365
But what can we do with those 200 milliseconds where our subconscious mind has
00:59:10.365 --> 00:59:13.065
shaped our perceptions and influenced our behaviors?
00:59:13.545 --> 00:59:18.945
You know, staying on the positive side of things, how would you close out with
00:59:18.945 --> 00:59:21.565
dealing with and unlocking school bias?
00:59:22.705 --> 00:59:27.425
200 milliseconds is so fast that people don't even understand the concept of
00:59:27.425 --> 00:59:34.025
what it what it takes how long it is but it's fast 200 milliseconds occurs so
00:59:34.025 --> 00:59:35.945
fast it's completely subconscious.
00:59:37.323 --> 00:59:45.023
200 milliseconds is right now predicting our immediate future and impacting our long-term future.
00:59:46.063 --> 00:59:53.723
If you were to ask most people on the face of the earth, do you want a better control of your future?
00:59:53.863 --> 00:59:58.003
And would you like to have better future outcomes? I'm thinking the answer will
00:59:58.003 --> 01:00:06.083
be yes and and one of the reasons we sat down to write a book like this was that,
01:00:07.063 --> 01:00:10.543
the only way you can have any
01:00:10.543 --> 01:00:21.143
control of those 200 milliseconds is to understand them and then try to modify
01:00:21.143 --> 01:00:27.163
your life based on good scientific understanding of how they occur,
01:00:28.063 --> 01:00:35.083
So in many ways to me, if you truly understand the complexity of bias,
01:00:35.383 --> 01:00:42.283
you can start applying small to big things in your life that would change your future.
01:00:42.883 --> 01:00:48.043
And in many ways, then your future might be brighter and you might then need
01:00:48.043 --> 01:00:49.563
to put on some sunglasses.
01:00:50.083 --> 01:00:56.403
It's just a reality. And I think I am big on everybody having,
01:00:56.763 --> 01:01:01.083
I used to, I used to, when I was a director of mental health,
01:01:01.323 --> 01:01:07.583
I actually kept some kids that I actually saw as clients directly because I
01:01:07.583 --> 01:01:08.803
didn't want to get too detached.
01:01:09.863 --> 01:01:14.083
And one of the things I used to tell my kids who had been gone through so much
01:01:14.083 --> 01:01:20.503
in life is that everyone on the face of the earth deserves to be happy.
01:01:21.923 --> 01:01:27.923
And we discussed earlier Happiness doesn't have anything to do with The world
01:01:27.923 --> 01:01:33.903
around you It's an internal condition And one of the things that the work on
01:01:33.903 --> 01:01:36.503
bias Really helps you understand is,
01:01:37.099 --> 01:01:40.879
There are elements in bias that can impact that.
01:01:41.239 --> 01:01:48.159
And if I understand it better, I can engage in the world in a way where it's
01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:54.559
more fulfilling, my outcomes are better, and ultimately, I am a happier person.
01:01:55.479 --> 01:02:01.319
I love it. Horatio, I want to thank you so much for this work that you've done,
01:02:01.619 --> 01:02:06.619
for coming on the podcast for a fourth time, and really helping us to expand
01:02:06.619 --> 01:02:12.859
our thinking on this topic tied to brain science so we know that we can improve ourselves.
01:02:13.139 --> 01:02:19.259
So we've got to have you back for a fifth time, so I hope you've got another book coming out soon.
01:02:20.179 --> 01:02:26.679
Always working on something. Awesome, awesome. Well, keep us posted, and that'll be a record.
01:02:26.979 --> 01:02:30.159
I like records. Yeah, absolutely.
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:34.179
So people who want to follow your work and reach out to you,
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:39.319
if they want you to come into the classroom, into schools, is the best place
01:02:39.319 --> 01:02:42.559
still your website, resiliencyinc.com?
01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:45.459
Is that your best? That's one of the ways you reach me.
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:50.819
I'm on all social media platforms, and I'm not that hard to find.
01:02:51.219 --> 01:02:57.619
You just get on Google. you can poof yeah there it is um but i i actually answer
01:02:57.619 --> 01:03:00.999
my cell phone so i'm easy to contact,
01:03:01.699 --> 01:03:06.259
absolutely i put all all the links to your socials there and i'll add your email
01:03:06.259 --> 01:03:07.759
because you also respond on
01:03:07.759 --> 01:03:11.519
email so i'll put that in yes i do thank you so much for your time today,
01:03:12.019 --> 01:03:18.099
uh good to see you always thank you if you're enjoying the neuroscience meets
01:03:18.099 --> 01:03:22.239
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