Lead Generation for Creatives: What Actually Works? (Part 2) | Ep 13

MrBenBurns: Okay, where do we leave off? Yeah. So we went last week, in case you missed the fun shenanigans. Last week we have I have my cocktail shaker here. For those of you who can't see it, I'm shaking in the cocktail, all sorts of different lead generation methods. And Ben and I have been ranking these lead generation methods blindly, five one to five. One meaning we hate it, it's the worst. We would never. And five meaning, mm, give me that all day, every day. That's how I like to generate leads. And we decided to do this first because Ben and I and my husband Nathan are starting a studio together. And we're gonna be generating leads right alongside all of you, but also just a lot of conversations in the community and just people I know in my personal circle. And Ben, I think I think it's the same with yours too, just like people not being as busy. as they would like. But then when I ask them what are they doing to generate leads, they're like, nothing. So I'm like, well, that's probably why. I'm not gonna just say it's AI or the industry if you're not trying to generate any leads at all. So last week, if you missed it, it was really fun. Go back and watch it. We went we went over LinkedIn. Attending conferences, online marketplaces, word of mouth and referrals, local meetups and walk ins. So we have a whole lot more. Ben, are you ready? I'm ready and I'm excited because it was so much fun last time. Okay. So weird. Like these little cards change the game. Yeah. So fun. All right. We've actually I feel like a lot of like the the ones that we talk about a lot, we have not done yet. The ones we talk about consistently in the community. So Ooh. Snail male outreach. Like sending people physical things. Which I would say you then need to follow it up with an email. Yeah. Yeah. That one is tough. Ooh. Cause there's a lot of factors with this one. It's like it's kind of more expensive, so there's that to consider. But it's also like I don't know, getting packages sucks right now because it's usually just like soap. So when it's fun, it stands it stands out, you know, like it's not the Amazon delivery driver for the fifth time this week. this that is tough. Okay. All right. I'm ready. I'm ready as well. What she got? Three. I'm a four. Because I think that everyone overthinks and overshoots the expenses of this. I think there are ways to do this that are super easy and super cost effective. If you're in the United States, there's this beautiful company called Moo and you can just, you know in the UK. Mm-hmm. And the they they do they have it in the UK? I'm sure. I like look for some sort of it doesn't have to be, I think what it is as as creatives. We we don't like it when our clients overscope. But we always over scope our own projects. And so inside of module six in the division, one of the assignments is to do a form of alternative outreach. And a lot of our members have these grand, huge ideas for for their alternative physical outreach for snail mail or for walk-ins, like we talked about last week. But it doesn't have to be that grand. I think, I actually have it right here. Ooh. This was her this was her leave behind. And so if you're if you're listening to this, I'll I'll explain it. So it's a black envelope that was handmade that in the top it has a bunch of postcards. And this is from one of our members, Jesse Mae. And the back says the name of her business. So it's all the same. I can tell she got this off of Moo because they're all the same. It's the exact same thing that I do. And then each of the fronts is a different piece of her artwork. And she handmade the envelopes. She got these from Moo. And I like this because you can get a bunch of postcards from Moo and you can just send tons of packs at once. It it's it's it's scalable more so than than those walk-ins that we talked about last week. But I personally love it. Now, is it gonna land you something right away? Maybe, maybe not. And that's, I think, the game with most outreach. Yeah. It's a long game. It's a long game. But if you follow that up with an email introducing yourself, you're going to get people's attention much more than many of the other forms of outreach that we're talking about. I agree on all fronts. And I think it's a fantastic thing to do. I do think that It can be expensive if you over scope. And so for that, that kind of knocked one point off for me, just because like a lot of folks who are just starting out, they just don't have budget for this. but here's what I love. I love that it forces you to make something. And that making thing, that thing that you made is what markets you. And For those of you who have exclusively done digital design or you know, handed things off to your client for printing, sometimes printing your own stuff is the best way to like break through some of those those barriers and understand like color spaces and what you need to do to prep things for press and all that kind of stuff. and as far as effectiveness goes, it's like there's very few ways to truly stand out in today's ecosystem, in today's industry. And sending somebody a physical good is I mean, y it will get opened and viewed, which I don't know how like any other tactic that that puts you in that same position where your work will be seen by the person who receives it. Because they I they they have to evaluate if it's junk or not, right? Yeah. Maybe walk ins, like we talked about last week. But this is more scalable because you can send them anywhere within reason. And I would give it a five if it was free, if it didn't have that, you know, initial startup cost. I think it's that effective. but I also think depending on what you do, you could make f something at your home. And send it. Like we have a collage artist. He's a graphic designer, but Austin Dingus inside of the division, like he one of his he says it's one of his hobbies, but I would say it's one of his crafts is like sort of this like collage art and it's very graphic oriented. Like who says that graphic design has to be on a computer? And I also think that there is something, there's something about analog right now. That people are really loving. And I think it's kind of the rejection of AI, the rejection of digital. It's sort of like how people want to meet in person. I think they're also wanting to just it's like vinyl sales are up. People love analog, and snail mail clubs are a huge thing right now. Like one of our members, Caitlin Smith, who in off in our offseason program that just ended, her goal was to start a snail mail club. And so I think people are loving the idea of getting things in the mail again. People are very nostalgic for that. Or people are nostalgic for a time period in which they never lived, which I think is Gen Z. But I think also as a Gen X person, I just I loved getting stuff in the mail. It made me so happy as a child to get things in the mail. Made me feel special. And now it's just a bunch of junk and bills. I barely even go to my mailbox. So if I got something in the mail, I'd be super Super thrilled. Yeah. Yeah. And I wish I had brought it up. but I actually just received a kind of leave behind gift from one of the one in one on ones that I did. Richard, thank you. And it was like a coffee cup and a little owl plushie and a business card. And then that was like a had a QR code to his portfolio and a little handwritten note. And man. What a cool thing. It's hard to throw a coffee cup away. You know what I mean? So I'm gonna be looking at his logo every time I open my my cabinet to like get a cup of coffee. So I I think that there's you're absolutely right in that a lot of people overthink this. and the more creative the better, but it can also be a coffee cup, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't have to be some extravagant thing. I remember in or my early career, working at this little agency called Post No Bills, w this is what our what we did. This was our bread and butter. Like we would mail things to press to promote movies. And I remember one thing that we did was do you remember the movie Stardust in the early two thousands? I do. It's isn't that a Neil Gaiman? Is it? It may be. I don't know. I don't know much about it apart from what we did. But I think it's a Neil Gaiman book. We sent stick-on mirrors for your phone. And so like you'd be able to go, this is kind of before the front facing camera existed and all that kind of stuff, but you'd stick these mirrors on your phone and then you could kind of like check your face, you know? and so it was so crazy because we I think we made like a million of these, like literally a million, and then blanketed the post office with them. And I was walking around and I was I was seeing these things on people's phones as they were walking around in the grocery store. And so it's just even a little two cent stick-on mirror can make somebody aware that you exist. And that's the whole point. Well, I I have a story of an acquaintance of mine who who he his name's Jordan. He works for Copper Sound Pedals. It's a guitar pedal company. And he tells the story of how he made a pedal that he thought Jack White would love, physically made the pedal, and he mailed it to Third Man Records, care of Jack White, and said, I would love to make this pedal with you. And like, I think I think the story is like within 24 hours, Jordan got an email from Jack White that says, Let's do it. Like, how else would you have gotten it? The attention of someone like that, you know what I mean? Like make something, make something. Now it's gonna be instead of makes make make shit show people, it's make shit send it to people. Everyone's gonna be doing that. It's true. I think it's just it gets people's attention when you mail them something really great. And it doesn't have to be super expensive. Like I hear some people's plans and they're like, I can't get past module six. And I'm like, what's your plan? And then they tell me and I'm like, well, that's why like you're making this impossible. Just send something simple. I remember we were doing a campaign for a commercial real estate broker and they were like, Okay, we want to send a brochure. We're like, Cool, we can do that. And they're like in an iPad. And we're like, Hold on, you wanna we just send the the whole iPad? And they were like, Yeah, we'll only do like a hundred of It's like only a hundred iPads? You know what? This is cool. Let's do it. I think that actually got cut in the end, but it was a it was a wild idea for mailing somebody something. I love wild ideas, but then check your budget. All right. Let's go bu let's go to the next one. All right. We have public speaking. Ooh, I already know. I'm already ready. Alright, hold on. Mm. This one's hard. Okay. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. Yours have fun. I gave it a four. I knew it was gonna be high for both of us though. have you ever gotten a client from public speaking? Never. But it's because I've never tried to do this. All of my public speaking has been towards creatives, but I've gained customers from speaking in public for the things that we do, like the templates and the number, you know, all the education. So I love this because all of the strategies where you're sending something in hopes that they look at it, or you're calling them in hopes that they pick up the phone, or you're emailing them in hopes that they open the email. It's like when you are speaking in front of people, they are there. And getting up and walking out is rude. That's true. And so you have them a captive audience for however long your talk is, whether that's like twenty minutes or forty minutes or whatever, you've got them. And I know that like I I think that the only reason why I would knock it down to four is 'cause it's like scary for a lot of people to do. And I'm right there with you. Yeah. Barrier to enter high entry. Yeah, I gave it a four just because of barrier to entry because it's difficult to do. I know people who are paid public speakers and they still have like It's like they're giving birth beforehand. And I know that you and you've done that. I I actually have gotten the client from public speaking. It have that's how last year. Yeah. I was giving a presentation at a retreat that I was part of. That's right. And it wasn't even me talking. It was just the the logos on the presentation. And someone in the room was like, ooh, those logos. And then a like a month later, she was like, So I have a logo project. Would you want to be a part of it? And we she just needed to see the logos on the presentation. but I've I've done public speaking where I it was to try to get clients and it didn't work. I think it's it's always worked best for me when it's just like here I am and I have things to share and I'm a and you know, not pitching, but our community advisor Zach Ebert, he recently gave his presentation and someone who saw it has signed him on for like a multi-month five figure retainer. So love public and another one of our members, Domingo, he gave a talk and got a client from the talk. So I I think it's it's one of those if you can swing it, and that's why it's not a five for me. It's like a You have to first get into wherever it is to give the talk. And that's not always attainable for everyone. I I feel like I'm giv I'm I'm reserving my fives for like anyone can do this. Wherever you are in the world. Yeah. Trying to be as inc inclusive as possible. I think that like public speaking is is probably the isn't it the number one fear of humans? That and death. I think it's like voted up there. Yeah. Number one and number two. It's like it's like number two after death, I think. Yeah. and yet we talk in front of people all day long. All day long. And so it's like, yes, there is an aspect where it's sheer terror when you walk out on stage or like that that moment right before you walk on on on stage and then if you're like me, I rehearse until like I can't talk anymore. I mean, I am just I will do my talk a hundred times before ever stepping out on stage. so I get it. I understand that it's like it's a scary thing to do. But if you take the performance aspect out of it and you go with the motivation to not only just like help, but also to just like share what you're doing, especially if you can show some of your work in the middle of the talk or sprinkled throughout the talk. It's like it's almost just having a conversation with a whole bunch of buddies. They're like, yeah, check this out. Isn't this cool? I'm proud of this. And I think a slight little reframe there really helps because even me, you know, practicing and freaking out and all that kind of stuff, somebody said to me once, like, hey, they don't know what you're planning on saying. Right? So even if you mess up or slip up, it's like nobody's gonna know, you know? And that made me feel better. And then the other thing that made me feel better about it is that like every single person in the audience is wanting you to do well. They're there like cheering you on because there's this like there's this mirror of emotions where if somebody is is crumbling on stage, the audience feels that too. And so It's easy to walk out and think that everybody's judging you or, you know, judging what you're saying and all this kind of stuff, but in reality, they're there alongside you, kind of like rooting you on. So hope that helps. And it's just like, man, if you can get somebody to watch a YouTube video and do nothing else for twenty minutes, that's a feat. You know what I mean? So that's why that was so high for me. Have you ever seen anyone get booed in your lifetime? At a comedy club, but I think that that's a different vibe. I think it's almost expected. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. I I've been to a lot of concerts and I remember of Monsters and Men. It was so bad. We the the crowd genuinely felt bad for them because their sound kept popping. And it was like not their fault. They didn't get booed. We all just like collectively, the whole concert was just like, this Horror band. First they're opening for Muse. I mean, how hard is that? Because Muse is like epic. And then they there's just sound is popping all over the place, but we didn't boo. The only time I've ever seen anyone get booed, it was Limp Biscuit. So you basically just have to be a step above Limp Biscuit, guys, to not get booed. But then they won the crown over. They're like, boo, they're gonna thumbs down this. I didn't boo Limp Biscuit. Bas Limp Biscuit put faith on after that and they just showed George Michael's ass on the huge Megatron going like this. And then they redeemed the crowd. So, you know, it's very I'm just I'm just saying, it's very rare that people get booed. So don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. If you can if you can swing it. All right. Let's go on to the next one. All right, we have cold email outreach. Ooh. Okay, I'm ready. Four. Four. Here we go. Four. Four. This is what everyone thinks is my favorite inside the division. And it's because it's it's really it's not the first thing I teach inside of the division that's lead generation, but it's the first big one. And it's because it's so easy. It's so easy. Anyone can do it. It's free. but people hate it. Why do they hate it, Ben? I don't understand why they hate it so much. I think we as creatives are really trained to be people pleasers. And I would I would there's something about being an artist that doesn't really require an audience, right? Where it's like you're not Actively looking to make somebody else happy, unless that's the intent, the emotional intent of intent of your art. And then there's professional creatives, which is a service role. And I think that the creative people who are drawn to being a professional creative are naturally just people pleasers. And I think that what happens is we find the person we want to reach out to. We personalize our outreach. We put their email in the send. And then when we go to send, it's like, but what if I'm bothering them? What if I'm interrupting people? What are they gonna think think? What if what if they just say no or they they they yell at me for emailing them out of the blue? And I think that there's this like weird disconnect around what cold meal cold emailing could actually be. And a lot of people look at it like it's you're being a body inconvenience. Yeah. I think there's that, but I think there's also an aspect of this that the I th I would also say that I teach cold email outreach very different than the types of cold emails that I personally receive on a daily basis, which are a nuisance and I hate them because they're they either diagnose that there's something wrong with my business that They don't know if there actually is it, or it's just not personalized in any way, shape, or form. Or it's just buy my thing, please. I have this thing. Can I give you my rates? And I think that beyond the I'm being seen as an imposition in someone else's inbox, there's also a level of I'm just gonna say it and the people are gonna hate me for it. People don't want to personalize it to the extent in which they need to to actually get a response. And they think it's while I while we say it is a numbers game, it's also a quality game. You need you're sending a I always say you're sending a cold email and it needs to be warm. You need to be doing some research on the person first. And then then if there's absolutely nothing there. Because the person is just like MIA on the internet and has no personal, you know, information. And I mean, I'm not talking personal information, like don't talk to them about their kids and stuff like that. But I would say like I'm someone where you can very easily go online and find out little tidbits about me to where you could then send me an email that's personalized. Because I put enough of my personality out into the world to where all you would have to do is You're not gonna find it on LinkedIn. And this is why teaching personalization, there's no like w blanket way to do it. Because if you go on LinkedIn, you're gonna think that I don't exist. But just then head over to my Instagram and you'll know a lot about me. but I think there's this just this aspect of we think we need to send so many and so we don't have time to make it good, or it's like, no, you need to do both, but make sure it's good before you send any. Like you need to continuously. be make be sending emails. I didn't give it a five because I do think that there are some crafts that are better suited for cold emails. Like branding? No. Don't do it. Wanna give the spiel on why we don't like branding for cold emails? Yeah. Do I need to hold up my my my diagram here? You're you're laminate. Yeah, let me let me see if I actually while you're finding that while you're finding that I'll talk to like kind of the crafts that it does work well with, like it works like magically with, is if your craft is a smaller piece of a larger project, meaning lettering, motion design, illustration, those three in particular, agencies, publishing houses, their editorial, they're off those people are actively looking for people. To put on their roster to hire for various jobs that you could be a good fit for. And that's why some people get so discouraged when they don't hear back. But then there's the wonderful story of one of our guides, Irlanda Nervaro. She is an illustrator. She reached out to, I believe it was an agency, and she didn't hear back for months. And that's because a lot of times agencies will just keep your work on file. They won't get back to you. But that doesn't mean that they won't consider you for work later. And they did. They they came back to her a few months later because they they just had a project where her style fit and they hired her. But then you have examples of like Stacey Sue in in the membership where she sent an email in her first batch of emails and she got this amazing at book publishing Did it and then but even it works for graphic design too, JP Ruiz. It's that story of I'm at Adobe Max in the lunch line and he comes up to me and he's like, Seven he was up. And I was like, Hey man, I didn't know you were here. And he's like, So I sent those emails you told me to send. I got an eleven thousand dollar project within forty eight hours. I was like, Hey and he's a graphic designer. He's also a brand designer. But he led with graphic design. So I'm I'm assuming, Ben, you're gonna show your your your diet your laminate in just a second. But really you all it should be on YouTube for this one. But it just the only reason I don't give it a five is it doesn't work best for all crafts. But there are some crafts. If you're an illustrator, an animator, And like a lettering artist, what other crafts would you say are just like they're just perfect for cold emails? I would say photographer. lower end videography, cinematography editing, not the higher end stuff, because those projects are typically really well planned out in advance. Yeah. Those development development. I would give those a five. If we're like if we're gonna get granular. If you are one of those crafts, cold email outreach is a five for you. That is the play. And it's not an imposition because agencies and publishing houses and editorial outlets, they know the game and they get they get tons of these all the time. That's part of business. So please learn how to effectively send cold emails. Please, thank you. We teach it in the division. All right. All right. Why not branding? Here's a company's life, right? They they they start over here, they're born, and then they they keep growing forever or they die. Right near the beginning of their life, right here, they need branding, right? Because they need to develop a brand. They need to they need to design a logo so that they know, you know, their customers know what products are theirs and all that kind of stuff. So at the beginning of their life, they need branding services. It's really difficult to find beginning companies, and especially difficult to find beginning companies with budgets, right? So this point is really hard to hit. And then somewhere along the line, in between death and birth, they might need one rebrand or two. I was gonna say they they need Metallica. That's the thing. It's like that's the Metallica thing. It's like birth. Metallica death. Yeah. Yep. And so firing off cold emails is kind of like, you know, you're just shooting in the dark and you're just like, I hope I hit it. I hope I hit that moment that they need a branding project. But it's so unlikely that you're gonna hit them in that moment of need. Contrast this with things like illustration or just graphic design in general. Graphic design. Company's gonna need packaging and brochures and signage and they're gonna wanna update things. And so those moments of needs happen way more quickly and way more frequently. And you're far more likely to hit one of those moments of need with a with the right email. so that's why it's like it's really tough to use for branding. And we recommend that you if you are a brand designer, if you're a brand designer, let's be real. You're also a graphic designer. Or like me, a lettering artist, married to an illustrator, our powers combined, brand designers. So that's why we recommend for cold emails, it's not you don't do it as a brand designer. It's no, you do it. You just lead with a different service in the email and you let them know in your in some sort of capabilities deck or lookbook that you also do branding in case they know of someone. But Love cold email outreach. I think it has such a bad reputation, and everyone should do more of it. Mm-hmm. All right. Next. I'm glad we agreed on that one. Wouldn't it be bad if we wouldn't it be bad if that was low on your end of like, shit. Okay. I feel like I need to explain this next one to the audience. This is the Power 150. Power 150. Is my you're you're not gonna find it anywhere other than inside the division and now on this podcast. The Power 150 is my method for nurturing what I call your value network. It's 150 people max. And I think that's one of the like, my god, I don't know 150 people. And like most people don't, especially when you're starting. But you need to grow a network of people. And right now you could have five people in your power one fifty. You could have two people in your power one fifty, but these are relationships that you already have, or you're moving people from cold email outreach or public speaking or, you know, conferences or people that you've met in in real life somewhere, you're moving people constantly into the power one fifty. And when we say it's a long game, this is the long game. It's meeting different people, moving them into your Power 150 and nurturing the relationships. And it's 150 people. It's based on the Dunbar number, which scientifically means our brains are only able to maintain 150 quality relationships. And I know people who have way more than 150 relationships in their life and they do a horrible job of of of nurturing those relationships. So it's all about. Nurturing the people that by providing value to them and staying top of mind. So when those branding projects come along or different opportunities come along, you're the first person that they think of to be like, Hey, I know someone to do your logo because they've been nurturing a relationship with me for years. That is the Power 150. What do we got? Yes. Yes. It's the it is the five. It is this is the way. It's the way, guys. It's this is how you generate leads. It's when we say it's a long game, I feel like I already explained why it's a five by giving the context around this. One of our members, John Defoe, he says all the time when he lost his job and he joined Maker Division. And he learned about the Power 150. He went full force in the Power 150 because he I don't wanna make it s sound like he's old, but he's a veteran designer. He's been in the game for like 20 years. So he had a lot of connections. He was able to replace his full time income with work very quickly because he leaned on that power one fifty. And I know it's sort of like That's his advantage. We all have different advantages. I truly believe that every single person has a different advantage over one other person or a just in general. His advantage was he had a large power 150 to start. If you don't have a large power 150 to start, you have to be doing these other lead generation methods to get people into your power 150 to nurture the relationships because that is how you get clients into the pipeline consistently. Yeah, I agree. I don't think that there's any downside to this because even if you've got a power for you can start there. Honestly. And the people who know you are more likely to hire you than anybody else. So I just I love this. And even at the highest levels of agencies that I've worked at, it is amazing how much Personal relationships will trump everything else when it comes to hiring somebody. So I would challenge everybody who's watching. You probably know more people than you think you know, and the people that you know probably know more people than you do. So this is it is it is just the way. The way. I would say that if you are struggling to get clients right now. Rather than going to what we said last week was like the quickest way to clients would be something like upwork, stop before you go there. When was the last time you showed your work to the people that know you? And whenever we have someone come to a coaching call and they're just like, Ben, Steph, I need clients now. We're like, Okay. When was the last time you showed your work to the people who know you best? And the answer is usually never or a very long time ago. And we've just got to start doing that. That's right there. And letting people know, like I'm I'm in I'm in need of work. You know anybody? The people closest to you are the ones that are gonna wanna help you. Yeah, I totally agree. Staying top of mind is also If you think about the people who know you, it's likely that you assume that they think about you from time to time. And if it's like your mom or your brother or your best friend, like, yeah, absolutely. They're probably thinking about you. Everybody else, though, you kind of fall off the radar until something causes you to think about them. Like, I can guarantee you that you guys probably didn't think about the Plumber you hired four years ago in a while, right? When you need a plumber, then it's like, yeah, who was that guy? And it's the same thing with with with us. It's the same thing with with creative. Staying top of mind is the challenge. And so it may not feel like you're being very productive when you reach out to your network, but you got to think, how much money is spent on a Super Bowl commercial? Right? And I can guarantee you. If I'm like, yeah, think of a soda. You're probably thinking something in the Coke or Pepsi family because they're just top of mind. You're probably not thinking about Surge, which was back in the day. You know what mean? Like, it's it's it's that concept of reminding people that you exist and reminding people that you have something valuable that you can offer to them or the people that know them that's going to get you a ton of work. And it's proactive. You need to cause that. That activation to happen and you gotta you gotta be constantly nurturing your network. So end rant total five for me. This is the first thing that I teach inside of the division in all of our lead generation methods. And I'm so surprised. I hear so many people say, like, I skipped that lesson. And I'm like, you skipped business. You are leaving business on the table if you skipped that. Because even if s even if you don't have very many people in your network right now, you still need to reach out to them. But you're also missing the point that cold emails aren't the be all. Networking at events is not the be all. It all leads to the power one fifty. It all leads to getting those people into your value network and then nurturing them in a very specific way. That we teach inside of the division. Can't give you guys all our secrets. All right. But I mean also if you're a good human, you might you probably already know how. Or if you're just like, I haven't peopled in a long time since COVID Stephanie. Please tell me how to have relationships with people. Join the division. I'll help you out. So I mean it's little things that sometimes we just take for granted. All right. Hundred percent. Let's move on. We kicked today off with some bangers. Mike. I'm telling you, I feel like the good ones for me anyway were not last week. I know last week I was just all like, meh, these aren't my favorite. All right. Inviting locals to lunch. you already know. You already know. I do, but I don't think you know mine. okay, so I'm a four. I'm a one Stephanie's a one. And I think I know why you're a one. You do. I know you d I know. I think know why you're a one. You know me well enough to know why I'm a one, but tell I know you've had great success with this. And so this is like a one for me and my kind. So explain why it's a four for you. My Power One Fifty in the days where I started my studio was comprised of Ex military or police people who were still in, entrepreneurs who had failed and are restarting over and had no money, and then just like personal friends and family. And I I got a lot of work from those three groups. I would do even logos for, you know, some of the police departments around me. The thing was was that like I could not seem to find somebody who's valuing design at a higher rate. It just seemed like they were all low budget clients. And so I was like, I need to break out of this. So what I did was I moved to a new city. That's not part of this. That's not part of the strategy, but I moved to a new city. And knowing no one was actually kind of a superpower because I was like, I don't know anybody. I could just tell people that. Hey, I'm new in town. I'm the founder of Bird Creative. Would love to sit down and talk shop, get to know the area. No sales promise. Just want to meet, you know, local entrepreneurs and businessmen. Whatever. Send those emails out and then just invite them to, you know, grab a bite to eat or a cup of coffee. And my my thinking then was that like, hey, I'm working downtown already. That's where my office was. And If I could just not eat lunch alone, it's a way to generate leads and and kind of like grow my Power 150. I made so much money from that strategy. So much money. It was it was what got me off of the marketplaces and got me away from you know, these like $500 projects or $1,000 projects, which to that point had been my bread and butter, but I was in a different world because I was about to have a kid. So I needed to make more money. So I think that like for me it's it's it's a four. And the only reason why it's not a five is because number one, it can be expensive, right? You're not going to Mickey D's. So unless you're just sticking to coffee, it can cost a lot. And it's also a a very awkward thing to do initially. To be like, hey, how you doing? Great to meet you. Let's sit down and eat. So so I think that like for me, this worked really well, but I acknowledge that it might not be for everybody. All right. You marked it a one, though. I marked it a one because there's I won't do this. I and and I it's not a one for the obvious reasons, like it's awkward. I'm an introvert, I don't like to leave my house. I don't want to constantly be spending money on someone's lunch. those are all great, but I've seen enough episodes of forensic files to never respond to an email from a dude that says, I'm new in town. I like to get lunch. Absolutely not. Hard no. I have my motto that I live by. Stay sexy, don't get murdered. I am a murderino. And it's just not happening. And I'm not gonna invite people out either because people are freaks. And I also live in Las Vegas. We extra freaky here. So I love that this works for you. It will never be something that I do. And I also I remember in a coaching call. One of our members, this back in the early days, he was doing what Ben said because everyone everyone does what Ben's what Ben says. They very rarely do what Steph says, so that's okay. so Ben Ben was a big proponent of this method, and he was just like, No one's getting back to me. No one's getting back to me. They c or like she scheduled and then she she she canceled on me, and I don't know why everyone's doing this. And I was just like, let's back. Ba wait, Backup? You sh you said she? How many of the people that you've that you've emailed are women? And he was like, All of I was like, there's your problem, dude. I want everyone, if you don't know what Ben and I look like in full, please go to the Maker Division website to look at Ben versus me. Ain't no one gonna fuck with Ben I love how you start You started this conversation, you're like, all my fri all my network was military and military and cops. I was like, and that is why you are totally fine with this strategy. Meanwhile, I am much taller than I look, but I am a tiny person in general. I am not safe out there, guys. There's no way it's happening. But I do acknowledge that for the right person, yeah, it's a fabulous play. Just not for me. Yep. I was Chatting with my wife the other night and we have to we have a mailbox that we walk to and it's like at the pool that's where the where all of the community's mail is delivered. And so I I was like, I'm gonna go check the mail. She was like, It's eleven thirty. I'm like So it's okay. And she was like Elise is a fellow murderino. She would never fellow murderino, five foot nothing, a hundred and five pounds. she was like, you have no fear of just walking alone in the dark. No. And I was like, no. And I was like putting my headphones on because I was gonna listen to a podcast while I walked. We would never. my God. And you're wearing headphones? I'm like, what? Nathan wears headphones too. I'm like, no, I need to know who is behind what is What is going on? If someone is crossing the str to street, I fuck politeness. I lock my door. They could be the most delightful person, but I'm like, nope, not today. I am not dying today. No. Anyway. But I love that I love it for you. Yeah. Works great. For Ben. For the big dudes. All right. I will not be doing that one. once all you when the studio's up. Have fun. All right. YouTube. YouTube. Ooh, this is a good one. Mm mm mm. Okay, I'm ready. After much shuffling. I knew you were gonna give it a three. I gave it a two. Three. Okay, YouTube. I think out of all the social medias, YouTube for me personally is probably the what I gravitate towards most. And so like I'm biased because I consume a lot of YouTube. However, I'm also like I have been a part of YouTube videos, like when Matthew and Cena created a video about what we did for mode designs, the the company where he's at right now. I got tons of leads from that video. And it was a video about our branding process and and what we did to rebrand the company, even though we maintained the logo. And it was like it I think I've gotten twenty or thirty leads, like legitimate branding leads from that video. Now, not one of them has panned out I was gonna say Please add to this. Please continue. And so I said legitimate, meaning they're real and there's a real human that you can talk to. Right? Yes. but many of them weren't qualified. So that's why it ranks right in the middle. Because I think if you were really consistent about it and you were creating these visual these these video case studies, showcasing your visual work. And talking about your process and all this kind of stuff. And and you know, you were put a lot of effort behind creating beautiful YouTube videos that showcase your work. I think it could really work for you. On the other side, it's a lot of work. I mean, videos like that take a very long time to produce. and a bad YouTube video just won't get the eyeballs. No. And so you have to master the art of YouTube. And so I think that it like. It's hard for people to do. It requires a lot of knowledge and maybe even equipment that could increase the cost. But out of all the social medias, I like YouTube the best for client acquisition. what I don't want to do is say that and then see a bunch of like talking head videos explode out into the internet where you're like my god, everyone just needs to take my branding course if they think that's the way to do go. Please stop. Stop it with the cocking head videos, guys. Here's here's the difference between art and design. Or here's the here's the difference marketing and branding. My heart. Yeah. So I don't think that there's a need for a lot of that kind of content right now. or ever again. But I do think that there is always a place to showcase the beautiful work that you're making and telling the stories behind your project. And if you use YouTube like that, I'm I'm behind it. I you ranked it little bit lower. I ranked it a little bit lower. I think just in general, all of the social media content posting platforms are going to be a mid range or lower for me. But I put this on like like last week we talked about LinkedIn and and I gave it a three. I think you gave it a three too because it really works well for a particular type of creative. Where two, I feel like you you have to you have to already have a video background and like you do. And I think that's one of the advantages that you have as, you know, as a creative is you've been around. video a lot. And yeah. And so that's that that's why you lean into YouTube a little bit more. But what I don't want is people to spend all of their effort on one YouTube video when they could be better served sending 30 cold emails or possibly way more. Because to get like I love that you're like the Matthew and Cena video. I'm like everyone go watch that. So you can see the level of of video that we're talking about. This isn't setting up a video camera in in your bedroom type stuff. This is like it's got storytelling, it's got b roll, it's beautifully lit and beautifully graded and the pacing and the scripting. Like I've taken a video workshop with Matthew and Cena. So I know, and this was years ago. So I'm sure it's even more intense now, his method of creating a video. So I just don't want people to be like, Ben's got that many leads. Well, that video also got like how many views? Like hundreds of videos. Matthew knows how to put a video together. Because he gave And notice it's not my video either. No, it's not your video. You know, so it's like there is something to that. I think that if you are interested if you are interested in video, I think that's great. I am as well. I'm I'm not going the YouTube route just yet, maybe ever, because it is so much. But I think video there I videos here. I know a lot of us don't we we we we are kicking and screaming. I've been kicking and scream Ben has seen it. I've been kicking and screaming for years into video. But I've also known that, like, yeah, gone are the days where an artist can just be an artist. You sort of have to learn how to be on camera to an extent, unless you go a totally different route, which is fine. There are other ways to do this. But for me in particular, I know I need to be on video, but You have to set aside the time to get good at video. Because the way I see it is my skills at a as a lettering artist are to a certain level where I don't want the video to be crap with really beautiful lettering. Yeah. It's it they sort of need to kind of sit well next to each other. So you don't want your video To downplay your ability to deliver really great craft, because if you have a crappy video, that's what people are gonna see first. They're not gonna see it through the crappy video to your amazing graphic design skills. So if you wanna learn video though, please do. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Like I I'll I will speak to the YouTube fanatics out there. I'm one of you and I think that the best way to get better at YouTube is To produce YouTube videos. And so it's like if it's something that you want to do and if it's something that you think you would enjoy, like go for it. Seriously. It's just know what you're getting into and know that it's not gonna be, you know, you slap up a talking v head video about the difference between art and and design and expect to get like forty clients from it. It's it's it yeah. You gotta learn that craft too, just like you did with your original one. Storytelling. It's not just video, it's storytelling and editing and light. It's all the things. But I think that it's just I've also just from the people I know in my circle, which is it's a pretty big circle, I don't know anyone who's consistently getting quality clients from YouTube. I'm not saying that it's not possible. I just don't know anyone who's doing it. And until then, I mean, I would love someone to be like, yes, I am. Let me let me tell you how. All right. Let's see. We know how to probably got time for one more and then we probably should rapid fire the rest. Okay. Well rapid fire the rest. RFPs. Why don't you explain RFPs? RFPs stands for request for proposal. And it is something that it's a little bit old school, right? It hasn't it it's not like insanely popular these days. usually you'll find RFPs published onto like government websites, for example, or nonprofits will put out RFPs. Large companies will also put out RFPs because they're required by their, you know, company rules to pull in proposals and get multiple bids. And so It's this document that gets published or posted or sent, where a company tells you about the project that they want to do and asks for your proposal, which typically they have some rules on what you should submit as a proposal. but that's the whole game. And I have experience in this. So ready? Who did you rate it? I have no experience in this one. So this one's a little tricky for me. But I okay. Okay, you got a two, I got a three. Here's why I'm a three. I'm a three because if a company puts time into an RFP, you can really you can be sure that the job is real, which is half the half the stuff that you have to do on the phone with a potential client. You gotta figure out if they're actually serious about hiring you. And an RFP, at least the work is real. You know, somebody might have an inside track. You know, you might be bidding on a job that somebody won three months ago and they're just kind of collecting bids because they're required to, but they know they're gonna hire the other guy. However, it's like it's nice to to say, hey, just like on Upwork, somebody posts a job on Upwork or one of the marketplaces, you know that it's it's they're it's real for the most part. So I like it because of that. I also like it because you can kind of easily identify what the scope of the project is and figure out if it's something that you want to do. which I which I really like. It's also easy to jazz your response. Because, like I said in the beginning, normally in an RFP there's really strict rules. It's like must be no more than 10 pages, double spaced, times new Roman, 12 point sized. And it's because They want to compare apples to apples. And so what I've always done is just completely ignored the rules and submitted proposals how I want to submit them. And that's gotten me jobs. Sometimes it'll get you disqualified, but for the for the folks who really appreciate the out-of-the-box thinking and the rebellious nature of things, hey, it works. so I I I think that like the downsides by submitting by sending out an RFP or posting an RFP, you're more than likely not the one, the only one that's gonna see it. And so you will always be competing for the work. Whereas some of these other, you know, methods of generating leads, you could find somebody that like has no idea on how to find illustrators and you're the only illustrator that ever reached out to them. and so I think that there is an aspect of competition here. There's also an aspect of a lot of these RFPs will come with a pitch, which is creative work done ahead of actually landing the job or being paid. And so with these RFPs, sometimes you have to submit ideas, and ideas are everything right now. so I don't like that. I think that, you know, those are RFPs that I would not want to participate in. And then also it's kind of hard to find. And a lot of these like government websites that like aggregate these RFPs, they require you to sign up and jump through application hoops and maybe even pay to receive RFPs. And so they they can be kind of difficult to to source unless you know exactly where to look. So that's why it's like squarely in the middle. Once you're in the flow of getting RFPs, you can make a lot of money. You can you can find a lot of work. but it's just it's just getting in is hard. Mm-hmm. I agree with everything. I don't know as much about them at like like you do, but I know that those are the pros and cons. But I would also say for me it's a tube just because of the absolute lack of relationship. That's part of the decision making. Like, even if you're on YouTube, like there's such a there's such a thing as a parasocial relationship with someone. Like this is purely just a shot in the dark. You have no idea, zero idea. And that's why I gave it to you. And I don't like that. However, if you have those ins and you can successfully, if you feel like your body of work. And the the look of your studio or agency holds up to what they're asking for. Because I've seen some of these RFPs and I'm like, this is legit and it's a really healthy budget. And they're looking for like ballers. If you are at that level of your business and you can easily find these, shoot shot. But don't forget to send your emails too. And don't forget to send, you know, I it's one of those things where it's like, If you're in the position to shoot the shot with RFPs without pitching, go for it. Yeah. But it should not be the only thing you're doing. Because you have no you have no idea whether or not it's going in your favor or like you said, they've already hired someone and they just need to check a box. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. All right. Let's rapid fire these the the rest of these. Rapid firing. Here we go. All right. Press slash podcasts. This is all encompassing. It's a two for me. I only like this. I only like this for local press if you are a s this spot works really well if you're in a smaller place. Like my friend Shannon at Purveyor Branding, she gets a lot of press in Bakersfield, and she is like the hot branding agency in Bakersfield because she's like one of the only ones. But it's a small piece of everything else that she's doing. And that's why I can't just say like Shannon's getting a lot of business because of the local press that she's getting. She's also doing public speaking. She's also doing networking. You know, she's she has a storefront in downtown. They can be they can be pricey. And in term in terms of podcasts, I've been on podcasts. Didn't do a dang thing for me. This is where I think it's like if you have a thing and you have a niche, like if Stefan Peterson worked we talked about him last week, were to go on podcasts about ocean conservation and talk about the work that he's doing for ocean conservation as a illustrator, then yes, he might get clients from that or other opportunities. But I think that podcasts and press are great for other opportunities, but not always client work. Yeah. Yeah. Low. Low. Don't spend your time there. That's we do have lessons on it in the division. It's just they don't come until much later. Online groups. Ooh. Okay. Here we go. Four fours we are insane. I took the last one. Yeah, okay. So basically this strategy is joining a group of people online. It could be a Facebook group, it could be a a subreddit, it could be a Discord server, you know, wherever people, humans, are aggregating. And then marketing your services by providing value to the group. You know, showing up meaningfully, answering people's posts. Showcasing your work in the group. it's just interacting with people online and folks that can follow the breadcrumbs that you leave back to your work and see how you could h help them. I I like this. I've I've gotten clients from this several times and it's really nice because you can target a a cluster of people, like a group of people that all share a common interest and stuff like that. So thumbs up from me. I yeah. I was in several online business groups for female entrepreneurs in the early days. And every single one of my clients in the early days came from those groups. Every single one. And guess what the service was, guys? Branding. Every single one was branding. So we talked about like cold emails is not good for branding. This is great for branding. Cause if you're in a business group and you are the brand designer and you can just Provide value without pitching your services, people will notice. And Sarral, inside of Maker Division, has done this. He has he provides so much value on website design and development in the group that other members have hired him and we have hired him because he's just so valuable and he's never once said, Hey guys, hire me. I'm a web developer. Never once. Yep. All right. We've got two more. Let's go. Let's go to Instagram. We only get we get to rapid fire Instagram? Okay. And you're a three. Okay. Yeah. Because I feel like this is an easier barrier to entry than YouTube. So it's allowing me to get better on camera in like thirty seconds. But there's the social aspect that is lacking in YouTube where I think that if if you are If you have a vibe, if you have a world like I talk about world building in my Rock Your Brand course, and you are creating content and putting out artwork around your world on Instagram and growing a following of people like my following is filled with guitar players. And I have conver and Nathan's following is filled with like UFO, you know, ad like disclosure advocates. And having conversations with people in the DMs is what I like that you don't do on YouTube. And yeah, true. And so that's why I gave it a three, because I'm not gonna put any social media above a three. but for the people who are very much into world building and you're growing a audience of people who wanna be a part of that world. And you're engaging with them in the DMs, that's where I've landed clients from Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. I think my biggest shade that I have to throw on Instagram is just like, man, I I put a lot of work into the reels that I actually make. And it's really frustrating knowing that they have like a two week lifespan maximum. And so you know, with a YouTube video, it could just simmer. For a really long time. Like some of the episodes that we've done so far haven't even broken a hundred views. And that's cool. They're just gonna simmer for a long time. Eventually, though, when we find the right people, it's gonna pop off and it'll start serving it to more people like our folks. And that's where it's like, I think that YouTube does have an algorithmic edge on Instagram. Mm-hmm. Yes. but definitely doesn't have that like DM ecosystem and it does feel a little bit There like there's more distance between the creator and the audience there. So I can see it. You're allowed you're able to build those parasocial relationships. You're able to connect with people in the DMs and it's a lower barrier to entry in terms of what you're what you're posting. And that's why I I put it for me above above YouTube. All right, we've got one more. And I know what it is because we haven't gotten to it yet. It's the only one. And I'm glad we le this is the last one. Paid ads. That's a one. One. I hate this shit so much and I hate that people are they are profiting off of teaching creatives to have ads. Do you want to elaborate more? I just hate it. I hate the idea of paid ads for service providers. It's Yeah. Yeah. And maybe not just service provider, maybe like creative service providers. but I have spoken to people who have gone through programs online that teach paid ads. We have run paid ads. And look, there is an aspect of this where it's like, maybe we just haven't figured it out. And maybe every single person that we've talked to. hasn't figured it out. And maybe it's a great strategy because we just don't know the one secret. But that's or the silver bullet. That's the problem. No one that we know has figured it out. So why why is it being toted as like buy my multi thousand dollar program to learn paid ads? First of all, creative, we don't have money for ads. It's like Nathan will ask, he's like, Do we have ad spend money? Because he's our chief creative officer now. And I was like, not right now. Maybe later. But ads are fucking expensive. Use your money and go to use your money and go to a networking event. Please use your money and y your money is better served elsewhere instead of a shot the dark. I spoke to somebody who was doing a hundred percent of his clients and and client acquisition and lead generation through paid ads. And his cost of acquisition was right around fifty percent of his which what he was charging for the work. And we're not talking about you know, astronomically high projects where like it makes sense. It's like he was working and spending so much money acquiring the clients that, you know, he was starting to be priced out of what he could charge for folks that were scrolling on Instagram. So it's just again, that's one story. Your mileage may vary, but there are so many So many other things to do other than paid ads. Yeah. All right. So let's review these. Which ones are we doing for our studio third edition? Will we be doing public speaking? You will. Yeah. Snail mail outreach. Absolutely. Yep. Paid ads. No. No. I'll take I'll take Instagram. Online groups, I don't know if that's the right play for us. It's a little strange given that we have online groups. Yeah. Press and podcasts for our services? I don't think so. Organic? We'll never say no. Will we pay for it? No. Yeah. RFPs. Will we do that? Yeah, sure. Maybe. I yeah. You can handle YouTube. I'm on YouTube right now. What am I talking about? You're gonna invite people to local lunches. Have fun. I'm gonna stay home and not get murdered. Absolutely power one fifty. Power one fifty all day if if I wet. Are you gonna come to Vegas and we're gonna take people out to lunch together? I was just gonna say if you get me an an invite, you know, for lunch from me, I'm really nice. Not gonna murder you. No. Okay. No. Well, I know that now, but if you had done that if you had sent me that email ten years ago, I'd be like, No. Cold email outreach. Yes. I will be doing cold email outreach. Absolutely. So let us know what you've tried in the comments. Let us know what you want to try in the comments. And if any of these resonate with you and you'd like to learn all the ways to generate leads, the division curriculum is here for you. We did it. Go generate leads, guys. There's so many ways. Go generate leads. Woo!