WEBVTT
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I am honored today to be in conversation with Adam Chiave Manalo Camp.
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Adam is a native wine writer, poet, and indigenous researcher raised in Papakolea, homestead community.
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His work centers native wine histories, indigenous epistemologies, and cultural preservation, grounding research in lived community memory while reframing colonial narratives through a kanakamali lens.
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Across writing, public scholarship, and digital community spaces, Adam treats history as present tense responsibility.
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He has described his work as being guided by Kupuna, offering research and storytelling as love letters to ancestors, place, and future generations, while connecting historical truth to contemporary identity and civic life.
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Welcome, Adam.
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Mahalo for having me here today.
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Yes.
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Before we begin, I just wanted to invite you to call someone into the room that's important to you, a kupuna, an ancestor, a teacher, a guiding presence, someone whose influence has, you know, shaped how you move through the world.
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Sure.
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Um, to come into the space.
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And the reason why I would like to call her is because she grew up in a time where being Hawaiian was not a good thing.
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Where in the term kanaka itself was used as a slur.
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And she was a monoleo who was beaten for speaking the language.
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And you know, one of the memories I have about her is um she used to have a scar on her left hand, and that was a scar from a ruler that was inflicted upon her when she was eight years old in school because she was talking to a classmate in Hawaiian, and the teacher got the ruler, slammed it so hard that when she passed away at the age of 93, she still had that mark.
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And I think about that that mark often when I'm doing these communications, when I'm talking about our history, because I don't want any future line of any Hawaiian family, of any indigenous family, to have to see that mark.
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Thank you for calling her into the space.
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Well, I'm thinking um, you know, if your grandmother is so important to you in family, that obviously Papa Colea as a place is also important to you, your Iave and your PICO are literally buried there.
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Um just from what I've learned.
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And so it's not surprising to me that your writing consistently returns to place as a source of knowledge and accountability and memory.
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And so, how did growing up in Papua Kolea, and probably you know, with your grandma, there were probably other community, you know, leaders, members shape the kinds of questions that you ask today, and I think the truths that you really refuse to soften in so much of your research.
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Mahalo for that question.
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Um and yes, you're actually correct.
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Um, when I was born, my pico was buried at my grandmother's homestead in Papu Kolea.
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So I'm for myself, I consider myself to be still very spiritually attached to my grandmother's lot on Anyaniku Street.
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Shout out to people on Anyaniku Stri.
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Um, and whenever I do talk deeply about my personal history, I always, always, always, always uh hearken back to to Papakolea.
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And why Papu Klea in particular matters to me is because so much of my mother, my grandmother's life, my mother's life, and my early life growing there was shaped by Papu Kolea.
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When my grandmother first moved up to Papu Klea in 1946, Papu Klea was Kyle bushes, and those people, like my grandmother and her neighbors, these women, these strong Kanaka women, used to every day cut back the kywe bushes and turn those bushes into colour farms.
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A lot of people don't realize that.
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So the men would go off to work at their jobs, oftentimes at the harbor, while the women were taking care of the kids and slowly reshaping the land in order to grow their own food.
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And with my mother's situation, what had happened was back in the late 1950s, the Board of Water Supply decided to dam the Kanaha River, which is the major river in Papua Kolea that used to sustain the community farms.
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And that reshaped everything in Papu Kolea, and it reshaped my mom as well, because now the people of Papulia were forced to go to the grocery stores.
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They were forced to be detached from the land.
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And during my mother's time, there was rapid urbanization of Mikiki, Tantlis, Punchpo, and Paoa.
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That again, it reshaped what it meant to be Hawaiian.
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But at the same time, um, we have in public life phenomenal Manaleo, we have phenomenal leaders that had really pushed the narrative of what it meant to be Hawaiian and who were very active in the so-called Hawaiian Renaissance.
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And that that history of my grandmother's generation of reshaping the land, reclaiming the land away from these invasive species, because kiawe bushes are invasive species, and trying to sustain their lives off the land, and then my grand my mother's generation being still technically on the land, but no longer being able to be sustained on the land.
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And my mother's generation was also the generation that underwent the process of statehood.
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And I have stories about that as well.
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Yeah, well, I mean, as we come to statehood, that makes me um I want to kind of stay on place.
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Um, one is Iolani Palace, just down the street, uh, where you where you just came from.
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Um, but thinking of places that you were raised or places that you live, things that impact you, it's also a place of like outside of Hawaii.
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The last time that I saw you in person, it was at the Hawaiian Council meeting in um just outside of Seattle.
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And so, what role has the dialogue in diaspora?
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Just as you were talking about your grandmother's experience, your mother's experience of like the landscape changing so much.
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I mean, talk about landscape changing.
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When you move to a completely different geography, you're you're on a different INA.
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And you know, how has that also shaped um your research and your writing and your your perspectives?
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So um I first left Hawaii uh when I was twenties, twenty-one, twenty two, and I traveled different places.
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I traveled to the Philippines, I traveled to Thailand, I've traveled actually through most of Southeast Asia, I've also traveled to Europe.
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Um and but I kept on coming back home to Hawaii, of course.
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And what had happened was that I ended up uh moving to Las Vegas about six years ago, and some of that had to do with um financial issues, like a lot of people in the diaspora.
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Um, but what had actually made me stay in Las Vegas a little bit longer, what than I had wanted to, to be honest, uh, was because of medical care.
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Um, I was actually, so I was like diagnosed with leukemia, and my doctors had told me that because of the form of leukemia that I have, um, I'm gonna have to the medical care in Hawaii is not as capable of handling it as on the continent, that if I were to move back home to Hawaii, they would still have to refer me outside to the continent.
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So that was one factor in why I'm still living over there, even though my people is still very much attached to Hawaii.
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And that is something that is a perspective that I think is lacking in how we view the diaspora, that we often view our communities in Las Vegas, California, Seattle, and whatnot, um, that these people chose to leave Hawaii, that they chose to abandon Hawaii.
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And I think that it's much more complex.
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And I think that we are too often blaming the victims of the oppressive economic system that has pushed these communities into the diaspora, and that we are forgetting about, you know, situations like mine, uh, medical reasons, but also situations where like we have a lot of Hawaiians who, for better or for worse, are in the armed forces and they have no choice of where they live.
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But and there's also Kanaka who have moved off of Hawaii because their families here are not in good situations and they need that space in order to heal for themselves.
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And I get that.
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And when I'm writing about these types of histories and these types of situations, I'm very keenly aware of how the narratives of our diaspora are being shaped by people like me and by people in Hawaii and by cultural experts.
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And I want our communities, wherever they are, to be seen, to be heard, and to be felt.
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That you know, this this we're not just statistics, we are real people, and so I think about those matters a lot.
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And um I, as you had mentioned, you know, I view my writings not as like blogs or anything like that.
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Um, I view them as love letters to my ancestors, but I also view them as um letters to people like me who were growing up in the diaspora, who in one way long to be in Hawaii but can't be in Hawaii because of situations beyond their control.
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So at least keeping that memory alive um is something that is a Kulyanna that I feel um I have to practice.
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And so, you know, specifically to being at the palace today, obviously um in recognition of the overthrow of the 132nd right anniversary of the illegal overthrow.
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What what what kind of clean do you feel, right, especially when you write about or you participate in, or you know, you are an active voice in these spaces that are addressing you know specific um like touchstones in history that have created such you know significant shifts for our for our community.
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Well, Rami Palace itself for me um besides Papoclea is a place that I always go back to as well.
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Um my first paid job uh was as a greeter at Iolani Palace, and I became a docent uh later on.
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So my journey into public history actually began with Iorami Palace and the Friends of Iolani Palace, and with uh curators such as uh Jim Bartels and Corin Chun.
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So I just want to recognize that.
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Um, but like today was the 133rd anniversary of the illegal overthrow of the Huan Kingdom, and when I had been giving interviews and doing some of the press stuff for this event, I made, and I also read a poem uh today as well, and I made it very clear that you know I am someone from the diaspora and I'm home.
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And we are not all kanaka can come home.
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And being here and being able to do the things I can and being able to highlight how history has impacted how the overthrow continues to impact our communities today, including um how it impacts Kanaka in the diaspora today is something that I brought up actually when I was speaking.
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And in a way, I was also trying to bring a voice to those who could not be here.
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And those who when I mean could not be here, I mean those who could couldn't physically be here, but also those who had passed away in these, you know, Aina'e, in these foreign lands.
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And is there for you what what's when you're in front of an audience that is kanaka, and we are talking about you know these kinds of events that can really be seen as you know tragic or trauma-inducing, have still have an aha in us, um, and you're providing that voice, you know, is it stories of inspiration or stories of fact?
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What is your goal?
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Um, like you were saying, you even write poetry.
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Um, so I'm just interested in kind of what how how do you frame your presentation when you're coming into a space like that where there is such there can be such a mix of intense emotions.
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I think sometimes as Kanaka, uh, because of the generational trauma that the Great Mahele, as well as the overthrow, cost us as a people, there's a tendency for us to kind of try to bury it and try to just kind of push it down, push it down, push it down.
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Um trying to be, you know, happy kanaka, the happy native, right?
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That's the stereotype that is often, you know, um portrayed.
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And when I'm like writing my poetry and whatnot, um I induce it with longing, love for Hawai'i, but also the rage that sometimes we feel when we think about the fact that when we think about things, for example, in my situation, my mother was on the Hawaiian Homelands waiting list for 40 years, and she passed away on the waiting list, and I know of so many families on the continent who moved away from Hawaii and who had grandparents and parents who died on the waiting list, and I allow myself to kind of feel that rage for other people as well, but at the same time, how do we make that rage into something that is conducive, something that we can turn into not something positive, but something that would gear us towards social activism, towards justice.
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It's not that you're gonna be happy, but it's like forward, forward movement.
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Yes, exactly.
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Um I was reading as well, like it was Olala Hovai'i your first language versus English.
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That is correct.
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Um when I was talking to one of their guests earlier, um, Kaimi, in terms of Olala Hovai'i and English, um, are there times that you ever write in Olala Hawai'i or maybe write feeling certain emotions?
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Um, I could see maybe even thinking in Olala, but also maybe writing in English because the majority, you know, to impact a wider audience.
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So how do you hold um those two languages and how you know how they also are able to like express a Hawaiian state of mind?
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Um, and then also that you know, Olelo was was something that was also like made, you know, banned in terms of instruction, it in and of itself, right, is kind of pivotal to even use.
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And I'm just wondering how what role Olala Hawai'i plays um in your expression, poetry, and writing.
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Oh well, thank you for that question.
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Um, I've actually been debating on how much ulalo hawai'i I should be using in my social media posts in particular, because of the fact that I want to normalize the language, and that's important.
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But at the same time, I've also talked with many other Kanaka and many other um kupuna where they feel like there's a there's still a lot of deep trauma with the language, that when they still see the language, there's like a mental block because of the fact that they were told that speaking olaluhawai was hoopo was stupid, that you were stupid for being Hawaiian, that if you were Kanaka, you were backwards, you know.
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Um so that has been a challenge.
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Like, how do I present that to a wider audience who one hand I'm trying to encourage Hawaiian, but then the other hand, it's not only that they may not understand it or understand the deep context to it, but do I want to re-traumatize people?
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Yeah, so like on one hand, I try to encourage it.
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Um, so like when I do like um meetings and whatnot, I will prepare the agenda bilingually.
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And yeah, if I'm thinking about certain deep topics in Hawaiian, um, or in sorry, if I'm thinking about deep topics uh in Hawai history or in Hawaii, sometimes I will write out what I'm actually thinking in olaloho'i first and then try to translate that into English somehow.
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Versus like versus starting, yes, versus starting with English.
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So for you, just on a personal level though, is speaking olalo like a healing?
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Is that something that's a positive for you?
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When I speak olaloh va'i, when I have the opportunity to speak olaloh'ai, I hear my grandmother's voice.
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I hear my mother's my mother was not a Manaleo.
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By the time that she was raised, Hawaiian had been out of the household um for decades and only returned in the household back in the 1970s as a result of the of the Hawaiian Renaissance.
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But my mother um was very much a kanaka who had a lot of deep-seated insecurities and trauma about Olelo Hawaii, about learning Olalo Hawai'i.
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And she actually took classes from KCC to try to regain her knowledge of Hawaiian, and she used to actually practice with me.
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Um and like I mean, that's one of my favorite memories with my mom is correcting her homework.
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So um, but at the same time, even with me, there is a level of trauma uh with Olalo Kau'ai, because although by the time I was born, Olalo Kau'ai had become this an official language of the state of Hawai'i, Punanaleo uh still hadn't been formed yet.
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Well, it had actually been formed, but they were still fighting in the Supreme Court um to remove um the act that forbid.
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From being a medium of instruction.
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So it existed, but it wasn't really, we couldn't enroll in it.
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And as growing up in Papacole, there is a legacy of the English standard schools.
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Because Lincoln, Stevenson, and Roosevelt were so-called normal schools, and English was the only medium of instruction.
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And in fact, those schools, you had to actually take examinations in order to enter those schools.
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My mother was a graduate of the normal school system.
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Actually, one of the last graduates of the normal school system.
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And so when I, by the time I enrolled in kindergarten at Lincoln Elementary School, I had already been used to Olalohova'i because of my grandmother.
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My grandmother had, you know, my mom used to leave me with my grandmother all the time.
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So like that's her language.
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I used to go to church with her.
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So they actually put me in English as a second language class.
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So it was like me, some Vietnamese and some Chinese, all struggling to learn English in a school that was literally across the street from a Hawaiian homestead.
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Wow.
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Okay, that's I just want to pause on that.
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That's I mean, it's a poignant um fact, really.
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Wow.
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So, and I hated English as a second language classes because the teachers were always very mean and like hyper-American.
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I mean, like I remember first grade, where we had to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance several times until we could pronounce it in in a more reasonably fluent uh Americ standard American accent.
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And yeah, so but by the time I was in fifth grade, English had become my primary language.
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Um and I still feel that disconnection, that I forced myself to become an English language speaker because that was the only way to survive.
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And I just those classes were torture for me.
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And that is also something I can relate to deeply with my grandmother, that you know, we had to assimilate.
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And again, you know, we were forced to assimilate in a school right across the street from a Hawaiian homestead community and on land that used to belong to King Luna Lilo.
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You know, I I do want to ask about some of your current writing being in digital spaces, but based on what we're talking about right now, I think it's so important to ask, you know, what made you choose writing?
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Um, just especially right with this kind of tension and this struggle between English and Olalo.
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And then also, though, when you chose writing, was it within this vein of like a historical scholar, right?
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So that you would write along these topics, or was it you know just a love of writing, and then you ended up moving to kind of into a historical political space?
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What was that catalyst for you?
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That's a very interesting question.
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Um, so I'm Hawaiian, I'm also Filipino, and there are certain stereotypes.
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By the way, I also speak the galog and I also speak Spanish.
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Um, but anyway, so I'm Hawaiian and Filipino.
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There's a stereotype that Hawaiians and Filipinos are very good singers.
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Unfortunately, I was not given any of those gifts.
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So, like I like to joke around that because I could not dance hula, and because I I can't chant, I can't ollie, I can't sing, I went into writing.
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Um the silent art.
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The silent art, right?
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Um, but but also it's um to be honest with you, I began to write uh years and years ago because I was trying to remember some of the teachings of my of my mother and my grandmother.
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I didn't want to forget those memories, and I was still trying to like remember what I had learned before the fifth grade when I was still an Olalo Hawaii uh speaker um at that level.
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And so for me it was kind of like a therapy session um at first that I was writing these cultural traits, these cultural histories, but also um learning about Hawaiian culture.
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So the the first step was the culture, then the history came.
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Um I just found our people, the wisdom of our people so deeply healing and so deeply profound.
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I just wanted to share it.
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And so I just began writing.
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Um, that was you can say the catalyst.
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It was just my eagerness to kind of hey, you know, I was reading this this newspaper over here, and it's talking about um the police officer who was shot on January 17, 1893.
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Like, did you know about this?
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And a lot of our Hawaiians, because of our of our education system, we don't know much, a lot of Hawaiians don't really know a lot of the details of our history, um, and a lot of the details of our culture.
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And so, yeah, I began writing.
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I wanted to share, I wanted to just just talk to other Hawaiians about, hey, did you know this?
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So, yeah, it was sharing, but also trying to have a conversation with the community as well.
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So that my earliest writings actually reflected things about Hawaiian spirituality, about um Olala no eao, and those things, and slowly it began to get into more um historical and uh political perspectives.
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Yeah, how I mean how what era, like how what age or what grade in school was that where you kind of you started to have an inkling that writing was gonna be something that was a part of your life?
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So uh the first time I ever got published was in volume two of OEV, a native Hawaiian journal.
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Yes, and the reason how I got published, I was like 16 years old, and I had written this whole long essay about Kla Kawa and his world tour, and it found its way to uh Mahi Alani Dudoua, and then she contacted me saying, Do you want to publish that in OEV?
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And I'm like, it's not really good, you know.
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I I lacked this the confidence I was a teenager, and she was like, No, it this is not the writing of a teenager, this is college level, but how you broke down these events, you know, um more people need to hear it.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:14.319
So she uh asked me to expand on my original essay.
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:20.799
She really mentored me in my writing, and I always credit Mahalani Dudwa also as an inspiration for me.
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:48.720
And um I do think about her a lot when I'm writing, and especially my poetry, because she also had inspired me to go into poetry as well as well, because she said to me before one of her advices to me was that there are just certain things you cannot say in an essay or a a scholarly, you know, article.
00:30:49.119 --> 00:31:03.839
There's just things that you just can only be expressed by by the rhythm of a poem because how you breathe is just like writing a poem.
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:14.960
So yeah, uh so I began actually writing poetry when I was still a teenager, but I've only I kept a lot of my poetry hidden until recently.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:17.839
Oh, well, I really appreciate you sharing that.
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:23.440
Um that's uh really a beautiful, and I can see the covers of the OEV journal as well.
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:26.079
That was a really special time, I think.
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:45.680
Um currently, right, a lot of your work lives in digital spaces, public spaces, places where history is often encountered quickly or out of context, or it's shaped by this, you know, economy that fragments attention instead of deepens it.
00:31:45.920 --> 00:32:01.200
And so when your work, and I would think, right, it would be it's more so in the current era, maybe not when you were first writing, right, enters these fast digital spaces, like kind of like what are you maybe listening for rather than designing for?
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:25.839
Or how do you stay oriented to who are you know searching for learning, who want some ike and connection, or or do you just write from you know from your na'al, write what you want to write, um trusting that like the words will go out and reach the people that they're supposed to reach?
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:38.960
So a lot of times, to be perfectly honest, um, I'll research something, then stumble upon something else, and then that gets me really excited, then I end up posting about it.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:47.440
But there are also times where people ask me like privately, hey, would you mind writing your um your monao about this topic?
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:48.720
I'm like, okay.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:33:02.960
But there are also times where I dream about a topic that something that I have a I have a dream that hey, you need to say something about this and this and this.
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.200
There's someone that needs to hear this.
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:11.039
So uh those those are the ways that I you know communicate.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:23.119
But the other thing lately that's been happening is that I've been trying to connect um historical touchstones in our in Hawaiian history with the present day.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:33.680
Um because I also am finding out that the younger generation that's how they connect with history, if they can connect it with their lives today.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:47.279
Um also I think you know in these digital spaces, and I'm connecting this to January 17th, and in a political, in that political sense, right?
00:33:47.440 --> 00:34:03.680
Um political conflict, I feel like we're in a contemporary political conflict and specific to writing online, especially about history, especially, I think where it's so vital, right, to get facts correct.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:08.480
Um, but also to hold that line about tone.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:29.360
Um, you know, what do you feel your kuleana is in the current landscape where there is it's just so tumultuous, I think, politically, and then I think etiquette, even online, um, the way people can just kind of call out others when when they're not right, or at least they're saying they're not.
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:38.559
Um, I just as I've listened to you today, there's so much of your work, I think, that like connects to Kupuna or lives in like spiritual spaces.
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:51.199
You know, how how do you, I guess, instead stay centered or or walk that line right of your own path with all of the distractions or kind of chaos around you?
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:58.800
So uh academic-wise, um, I'm actually finishing up a master's in history with a focus on public history.
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:05.039
Um and my particular interest is in decolonizing museum spaces.
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.800
Oh, interesting.
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:16.400
And I'm saying that because that's also something I've been trying to figure out in terms of social media.
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.719
How do we decolonize the digital the digital spaces?
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:30.400
And how do we what is the methodology that we are using when we're reclaiming our history?
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.880
So those are issues, and yeah, those are issues that I actually think about.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:55.679
But in addition to that, yeah, there's so much, I mean, I hate to say this, but there's so much AI slop on the internet that it is it is a struggle for many people to figure out what is real, what is not real, what is factually accurate and whatnot.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:08.719
So, like for me personally, um, if you look at my posts, there's usually a last slide um that actually names my sources um when it comes to books and stuff.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:20.400
Um so that way it's not a matter of credibility, it's a matter of I want people to read books, to read, learn how to research on their own.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:27.679
It's fine you disagree with me, but at least have your sources and at least have these sources verified, you know.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:37.119
Um, but right, there are topics where you cannot necessarily verify it through Western methodologies, right?
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:43.920
Um you it's someone's lived experiences, it's a spiritual space.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:37:07.119
And those are valid as well when we're talking about certain issues, uh certain topics, but we also need to be clear on where we are getting these ideas, where we we're getting this these monop these types of mono from.
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:09.760
So that way people would know.
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:26.480
And you know, um lately, because of the current political climate in the United States that's impacting Hawaii, uh, finding reliable sources is incredibly hard.
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:32.159
And we have a, I'm sorry to get a little bit political, but please save space.
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:55.280
But we have a regime that gaslights its own people, and one of the things that I've learned from Maria Reznor, um Riza, in her book Um Standing Up to a Dictator, is that we need to create networks of solidarity and we need to create trust among um people.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:17.039
And one of the ways is we need to we need to fact-check, we need to understand different people's perspective perspectives, but we also have to stand up to when regimes like the current one is trying to deny what we are seeing and feeling in front of us.
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:34.800
And so what you know, thinking about those um who are that emergent generation now in Hawaii, but also globally, um, you know, what do you think is some of the most important skills that are necessary?
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:41.280
I'm just thinking, right, you locked into writing, but you also mentioned research.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:48.159
Um but in just reflecting on the short time that we've talked, community, right?
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:51.360
And close connections with family members have been important.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:39:05.920
But as you've traveled, as you've talked to many people, um especially in the in the line of work that you do, you know, what do you feel is some of the most important skills that are just really vital for this up-and-coming generation to have?
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.960
Considering, you know, the political landscape, especially.
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:21.199
That's that's a tough question because uh I mean it's easy to say that we have to teach our youth critical thinking skills.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:27.519
But the truth of the matter is what are critical thinking skills in the first place?
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:29.519
We have to go back to the basics.
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:37.840
We have to learn we have to learn what makes a source a source.
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:51.840
What makes um how can we verify something that we can agree on, you know?
00:39:52.079 --> 00:40:16.000
Um for the next generation, they mean this is slightly off topic, but um in the original flyer for that I was sent about this particular program, um there was a talk, there was a mention of Ku O Koa as being interdependent, right?
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:23.199
Right, that it is independence, but how can we begin to frame it as interdependence?
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:37.280
But maybe that is something that we need to be teaching our kids as well in terms of when we're doing fact-checking and whatnot, is that not just interdependence, but intradependence.
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.239
That we are all part of a whole that works together collectively.
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:54.719
That because interdependence implies that there's differences, but intradependence implies that what I am is the same as you.
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:56.320
We're connected, right?
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:01.280
Um, we're connected because of this aina, we're connected, maybe we're related, we don't know.
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:09.840
Um, but we're also connected through the environment, like with the Kumalipo, for example, it's a genealogy chat, right?
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:22.320
That shows how this particular line of chiefs is connected to to everyone, um, not just Kanakamau, but everyone in the Pacific.
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.840
If you go by um Dr.
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:40.079
Rubalai Johnson's analysis of the Kumalibo, and you go before that, the gods, na kua, and then before that um the realm of pull, which includes nature.
00:41:40.480 --> 00:42:08.639
So when we're talking about the kids, um what something that the kids have to learn yeah, critical thinking skills, but also to recognize that intradependence, that we are part of a larger ecosystem, and that when we're talking about history, when we're talking about culture, we have to recognize what we say, how would that impact you?
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:10.880
How would that impact you?
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:29.199
Um, and that is something I think needs to have more discuss discussions about, is that that is a way of also fact-checking, is how something that you say is going to impact others around you.
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:31.199
That's beautiful.
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:49.199
Um, I also feel you know, the perfect way to kind of tie up this conversation as you take us to pole and the kumulipal and the spiritual, the spiritual realm as a place to, in a sense, right, kind of fact-check us that's based on community.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:56.079
Um, kind of even calling, right, in your family and your grandmother back into the room.
00:42:56.239 --> 00:43:07.519
Um, my last question is is really rooted in um a question that came out of my talk this morning with Kaimi, where he was speaking about hula and chance with prophecy.
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:14.880
And what he really wanted to see was like new chance about the new prophecy, the new visions.
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:33.599
And so, you know, my question to you is with these people that were so important to you in your life that set this foundation, and with the importance of your work, and I feel really being the driver for you is like the your connection to this spiritual space and to others.
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:42.880
What is your, you know, what is if you were to write a prophecy or that vision, what is your desired vision of a Hawaii in the future?
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.559
What is that for Adam?
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:48.079
We turn to the stewardship of the land.
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:54.159
And you know, and looking at do we really need these types of developments?
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:59.760
Do we really did we really need you know, all of these highways.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:12.639
Do you really need all of these huge buildings and concrete and whatnot instead of food systems, instead of uh healthcare, instead of being able to be in community with each other?
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:22.800
And I think that that is a paradox with social media is that you can build hundreds of thousands of followers, millions of followers.
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.079
I think I have 32,000 followers.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:30.880
Um but you can still feel isolated.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:59.440
And if my vision of a Hawaii would be something that would be a community where people know who lives next to next to them, where people feel like they can just be themselves, that they're safe, and that a community, yeah, that people in the community feel safe, and that you know, um.
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:06.719
Do you mind if I quickly just talk about um sorry?
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:13.679
I know this is supposed to be a closing question, but but I I'm I'm let's go with what you're feeling called to talk about.
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:21.199
I mean, I want us to be a Lahuy in the real sense of a Lahui.
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:28.960
And people, you know, when we talk about the term Lahuy, we think of nation and race, right?
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:38.400
Um, because of the fact that we Hawaii, we've adopted the Westphalian idea of a nation-state because of the Hawaiian kingdom, right?
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:50.159
We had centuries of indigenous governance and we eventually adopted this Western idea of a nation-state because it was meant to protect us from being invaded.
00:45:50.719 --> 00:46:15.199
Um but when you look at the word Lahui as a cognate in the rest of Polynesia, um, for example, uh Rahui in Tahitian and Rahui in um among the Maori means a place that has been sanctified, that is under Kapu.
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:38.719
So the original Maimana'o is that the original meaning of Lahui comes deep from ancient Polynesian thought that a Lahui is a community or people that have been made sacred, that have been consecrated and called upon to become a community.
00:46:39.199 --> 00:47:03.519
And I think going back to the prophecy idea is we have to go back to this idea of a Lahui as being a sacred space shared by all of us who believe, who believe in it, and who want to engage in it, and who have a kuliana and feel like they have a kuliana in it.
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:31.440
And so if I were to prophesize, I would want a a new Lahui that's based upon this idea of a community that is together out of a shared sacredness, out of a shared willingness to be together and to be in a safe space, um, that no one is left behind.
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:38.000
I mean in Olalohwaii, prior to the missionaries, we didn't even have a word for orphan.
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:47.440
Because we all took care of each other, and that's the kind of lahui that I I would want to live in.
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:51.519
That's the kind of lahui I would want to live in too.
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:52.800
Thank you.
00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:09.599
I am honored today to be in conversation with Adam Chiave Manalo Camp.
00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:15.519
Adam is a native wine writer, poet, and indigenous researcher raised in Papakolea, homestead community.
00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:27.280
His work centers native wine histories, indigenous epistemologies, and cultural preservation, grounding research in lived community memory while reframing colonial narratives through a kanakamali lens.
00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:35.119
Across writing, public scholarship, and digital community spaces, Adam treats history as present tense responsibility.
00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:49.200
He has described his work as being guided by Kupuna, offering research and storytelling as love letters to ancestors, place, and future generations, while connecting historical truth to contemporary identity and civic life.
00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:50.159
Welcome, Adam.
00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:52.240
Mahalo for having me here today.
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:53.119
Yes.
00:00:53.840 --> 00:01:09.840
Before we begin, I just wanted to invite you to call someone into the room that's important to you, a kupuna, an ancestor, a teacher, a guiding presence, someone whose influence has, you know, shaped how you move through the world.
00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:11.359
Sure.
00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:20.400
Um, to come into the space.
00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:31.920
And the reason why I would like to call her is because she grew up in a time where being Hawaiian was not a good thing.
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:37.040
Where in the term kanaka itself was used as a slur.
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:44.480
And she was a monoleo who was beaten for speaking the language.
00:01:44.640 --> 00:02:19.280
And you know, one of the memories I have about her is um she used to have a scar on her left hand, and that was a scar from a ruler that was inflicted upon her when she was eight years old in school because she was talking to a classmate in Hawaiian, and the teacher got the ruler, slammed it so hard that when she passed away at the age of 93, she still had that mark.
00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:38.159
And I think about that that mark often when I'm doing these communications, when I'm talking about our history, because I don't want any future line of any Hawaiian family, of any indigenous family, to have to see that mark.
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:42.879
Thank you for calling her into the space.
00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:56.080
Well, I'm thinking um, you know, if your grandmother is so important to you in family, that obviously Papa Colea as a place is also important to you, your Iave and your PICO are literally buried there.
00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.240
Um just from what I've learned.
00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:06.879
And so it's not surprising to me that your writing consistently returns to place as a source of knowledge and accountability and memory.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:25.360
And so, how did growing up in Papua Kolea, and probably you know, with your grandma, there were probably other community, you know, leaders, members shape the kinds of questions that you ask today, and I think the truths that you really refuse to soften in so much of your research.
00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:27.520
Mahalo for that question.
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.240
Um and yes, you're actually correct.
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:36.560
Um, when I was born, my pico was buried at my grandmother's homestead in Papu Kolea.
00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:46.560
So I'm for myself, I consider myself to be still very spiritually attached to my grandmother's lot on Anyaniku Street.
00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:48.560
Shout out to people on Anyaniku Stri.
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Um, and whenever I do talk deeply about my personal history, I always, always, always, always uh hearken back to to Papakolea.
00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:22.720
And why Papu Klea in particular matters to me is because so much of my mother, my grandmother's life, my mother's life, and my early life growing there was shaped by Papu Kolea.
00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:48.639
When my grandmother first moved up to Papu Klea in 1946, Papu Klea was Kyle bushes, and those people, like my grandmother and her neighbors, these women, these strong Kanaka women, used to every day cut back the kywe bushes and turn those bushes into colour farms.
00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:50.560
A lot of people don't realize that.
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So the men would go off to work at their jobs, oftentimes at the harbor, while the women were taking care of the kids and slowly reshaping the land in order to grow their own food.
00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:25.839
And with my mother's situation, what had happened was back in the late 1950s, the Board of Water Supply decided to dam the Kanaha River, which is the major river in Papua Kolea that used to sustain the community farms.
00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:39.199
And that reshaped everything in Papu Kolea, and it reshaped my mom as well, because now the people of Papulia were forced to go to the grocery stores.
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They were forced to be detached from the land.
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And during my mother's time, there was rapid urbanization of Mikiki, Tantlis, Punchpo, and Paoa.
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:56.079
That again, it reshaped what it meant to be Hawaiian.
00:05:56.399 --> 00:06:16.639
But at the same time, um, we have in public life phenomenal Manaleo, we have phenomenal leaders that had really pushed the narrative of what it meant to be Hawaiian and who were very active in the so-called Hawaiian Renaissance.
00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:43.120
And that that history of my grandmother's generation of reshaping the land, reclaiming the land away from these invasive species, because kiawe bushes are invasive species, and trying to sustain their lives off the land, and then my grand my mother's generation being still technically on the land, but no longer being able to be sustained on the land.
00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:52.720
And my mother's generation was also the generation that underwent the process of statehood.
00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:55.680
And I have stories about that as well.
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Yeah, well, I mean, as we come to statehood, that makes me um I want to kind of stay on place.
00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:09.279
Um, one is Iolani Palace, just down the street, uh, where you where you just came from.
00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:16.720
Um, but thinking of places that you were raised or places that you live, things that impact you, it's also a place of like outside of Hawaii.
00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:23.120
The last time that I saw you in person, it was at the Hawaiian Council meeting in um just outside of Seattle.
00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.920
And so, what role has the dialogue in diaspora?
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Just as you were talking about your grandmother's experience, your mother's experience of like the landscape changing so much.
00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:38.480
I mean, talk about landscape changing.
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When you move to a completely different geography, you're you're on a different INA.
00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:53.839
And you know, how has that also shaped um your research and your writing and your your perspectives?
00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:09.759
So um I first left Hawaii uh when I was twenties, twenty-one, twenty two, and I traveled different places.
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:18.879
I traveled to the Philippines, I traveled to Thailand, I've traveled actually through most of Southeast Asia, I've also traveled to Europe.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:25.120
Um and but I kept on coming back home to Hawaii, of course.
00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:44.320
And what had happened was that I ended up uh moving to Las Vegas about six years ago, and some of that had to do with um financial issues, like a lot of people in the diaspora.
00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:54.639
Um, but what had actually made me stay in Las Vegas a little bit longer, what than I had wanted to, to be honest, uh, was because of medical care.
00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:23.679
Um, I was actually, so I was like diagnosed with leukemia, and my doctors had told me that because of the form of leukemia that I have, um, I'm gonna have to the medical care in Hawaii is not as capable of handling it as on the continent, that if I were to move back home to Hawaii, they would still have to refer me outside to the continent.
00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:34.559
So that was one factor in why I'm still living over there, even though my people is still very much attached to Hawaii.
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:59.679
And that is something that is a perspective that I think is lacking in how we view the diaspora, that we often view our communities in Las Vegas, California, Seattle, and whatnot, um, that these people chose to leave Hawaii, that they chose to abandon Hawaii.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.480
And I think that it's much more complex.
00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:32.480
And I think that we are too often blaming the victims of the oppressive economic system that has pushed these communities into the diaspora, and that we are forgetting about, you know, situations like mine, uh, medical reasons, but also situations where like we have a lot of Hawaiians who, for better or for worse, are in the armed forces and they have no choice of where they live.
00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:46.799
But and there's also Kanaka who have moved off of Hawaii because their families here are not in good situations and they need that space in order to heal for themselves.
00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:49.039
And I get that.
00:10:49.200 --> 00:11:07.200
And when I'm writing about these types of histories and these types of situations, I'm very keenly aware of how the narratives of our diaspora are being shaped by people like me and by people in Hawaii and by cultural experts.
00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:17.120
And I want our communities, wherever they are, to be seen, to be heard, and to be felt.
00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:27.200
That you know, this this we're not just statistics, we are real people, and so I think about those matters a lot.
00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:35.440
And um I, as you had mentioned, you know, I view my writings not as like blogs or anything like that.
00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:57.039
Um, I view them as love letters to my ancestors, but I also view them as um letters to people like me who were growing up in the diaspora, who in one way long to be in Hawaii but can't be in Hawaii because of situations beyond their control.
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:09.360
So at least keeping that memory alive um is something that is a Kulyanna that I feel um I have to practice.
00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:23.840
And so, you know, specifically to being at the palace today, obviously um in recognition of the overthrow of the 132nd right anniversary of the illegal overthrow.
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:47.279
What what what kind of clean do you feel, right, especially when you write about or you participate in, or you know, you are an active voice in these spaces that are addressing you know specific um like touchstones in history that have created such you know significant shifts for our for our community.
00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:57.279
Well, Rami Palace itself for me um besides Papoclea is a place that I always go back to as well.
00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:05.120
Um my first paid job uh was as a greeter at Iolani Palace, and I became a docent uh later on.
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:17.120
So my journey into public history actually began with Iorami Palace and the Friends of Iolani Palace, and with uh curators such as uh Jim Bartels and Corin Chun.
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.600
So I just want to recognize that.
00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:45.360
Um, but like today was the 133rd anniversary of the illegal overthrow of the Huan Kingdom, and when I had been giving interviews and doing some of the press stuff for this event, I made, and I also read a poem uh today as well, and I made it very clear that you know I am someone from the diaspora and I'm home.
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:51.519
And we are not all kanaka can come home.
00:13:52.799 --> 00:14:18.080
And being here and being able to do the things I can and being able to highlight how history has impacted how the overthrow continues to impact our communities today, including um how it impacts Kanaka in the diaspora today is something that I brought up actually when I was speaking.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:27.039
And in a way, I was also trying to bring a voice to those who could not be here.
00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:39.519
And those who when I mean could not be here, I mean those who could couldn't physically be here, but also those who had passed away in these, you know, Aina'e, in these foreign lands.
00:14:41.840 --> 00:15:05.039
And is there for you what what's when you're in front of an audience that is kanaka, and we are talking about you know these kinds of events that can really be seen as you know tragic or trauma-inducing, have still have an aha in us, um, and you're providing that voice, you know, is it stories of inspiration or stories of fact?
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:06.960
What is your goal?
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:10.399
Um, like you were saying, you even write poetry.
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:22.320
Um, so I'm just interested in kind of what how how do you frame your presentation when you're coming into a space like that where there is such there can be such a mix of intense emotions.
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:45.200
I think sometimes as Kanaka, uh, because of the generational trauma that the Great Mahele, as well as the overthrow, cost us as a people, there's a tendency for us to kind of try to bury it and try to just kind of push it down, push it down, push it down.
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.399
Um trying to be, you know, happy kanaka, the happy native, right?
00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:55.440
That's the stereotype that is often, you know, um portrayed.
00:15:55.840 --> 00:17:08.400
And when I'm like writing my poetry and whatnot, um I induce it with longing, love for Hawai'i, but also the rage that sometimes we feel when we think about the fact that when we think about things, for example, in my situation, my mother was on the Hawaiian Homelands waiting list for 40 years, and she passed away on the waiting list, and I know of so many families on the continent who moved away from Hawaii and who had grandparents and parents who died on the waiting list, and I allow myself to kind of feel that rage for other people as well, but at the same time, how do we make that rage into something that is conducive, something that we can turn into not something positive, but something that would gear us towards social activism, towards justice.
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.920
It's not that you're gonna be happy, but it's like forward, forward movement.
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:19.279
Yes, exactly.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:27.440
Um I was reading as well, like it was Olala Hovai'i your first language versus English.
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:28.319
That is correct.
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:44.960
Um when I was talking to one of their guests earlier, um, Kaimi, in terms of Olala Hovai'i and English, um, are there times that you ever write in Olala Hawai'i or maybe write feeling certain emotions?
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:53.359
Um, I could see maybe even thinking in Olala, but also maybe writing in English because the majority, you know, to impact a wider audience.
00:17:53.599 --> 00:18:07.119
So how do you hold um those two languages and how you know how they also are able to like express a Hawaiian state of mind?
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:17.039
Um, and then also that you know, Olelo was was something that was also like made, you know, banned in terms of instruction, it in and of itself, right, is kind of pivotal to even use.
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:26.319
And I'm just wondering how what role Olala Hawai'i plays um in your expression, poetry, and writing.
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.559
Oh well, thank you for that question.
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:45.839
Um, I've actually been debating on how much ulalo hawai'i I should be using in my social media posts in particular, because of the fact that I want to normalize the language, and that's important.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:19:19.839
But at the same time, I've also talked with many other Kanaka and many other um kupuna where they feel like there's a there's still a lot of deep trauma with the language, that when they still see the language, there's like a mental block because of the fact that they were told that speaking olaluhawai was hoopo was stupid, that you were stupid for being Hawaiian, that if you were Kanaka, you were backwards, you know.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.079
Um so that has been a challenge.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:42.799
Like, how do I present that to a wider audience who one hand I'm trying to encourage Hawaiian, but then the other hand, it's not only that they may not understand it or understand the deep context to it, but do I want to re-traumatize people?
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.359
Yeah, so like on one hand, I try to encourage it.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:54.640
Um, so like when I do like um meetings and whatnot, I will prepare the agenda bilingually.
00:19:55.759 --> 00:20:18.559
And yeah, if I'm thinking about certain deep topics in Hawaiian, um, or in sorry, if I'm thinking about deep topics uh in Hawai history or in Hawaii, sometimes I will write out what I'm actually thinking in olaloho'i first and then try to translate that into English somehow.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.880
Versus like versus starting, yes, versus starting with English.
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:28.160
So for you, just on a personal level though, is speaking olalo like a healing?
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.960
Is that something that's a positive for you?
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:40.079
When I speak olaloh va'i, when I have the opportunity to speak olaloh'ai, I hear my grandmother's voice.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.319
I hear my mother's my mother was not a Manaleo.
00:20:44.559 --> 00:21:00.880
By the time that she was raised, Hawaiian had been out of the household um for decades and only returned in the household back in the 1970s as a result of the of the Hawaiian Renaissance.
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:14.799
But my mother um was very much a kanaka who had a lot of deep-seated insecurities and trauma about Olelo Hawaii, about learning Olalo Hawai'i.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:22.960
And she actually took classes from KCC to try to regain her knowledge of Hawaiian, and she used to actually practice with me.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:29.680
Um and like I mean, that's one of my favorite memories with my mom is correcting her homework.
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:49.759
So um, but at the same time, even with me, there is a level of trauma uh with Olalo Kau'ai, because although by the time I was born, Olalo Kau'ai had become this an official language of the state of Hawai'i, Punanaleo uh still hadn't been formed yet.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:59.519
Well, it had actually been formed, but they were still fighting in the Supreme Court um to remove um the act that forbid.
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:02.960
From being a medium of instruction.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:09.680
So it existed, but it wasn't really, we couldn't enroll in it.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:15.680
And as growing up in Papacole, there is a legacy of the English standard schools.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:24.480
Because Lincoln, Stevenson, and Roosevelt were so-called normal schools, and English was the only medium of instruction.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:31.680
And in fact, those schools, you had to actually take examinations in order to enter those schools.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.359
My mother was a graduate of the normal school system.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:40.000
Actually, one of the last graduates of the normal school system.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:54.319
And so when I, by the time I enrolled in kindergarten at Lincoln Elementary School, I had already been used to Olalohova'i because of my grandmother.
00:22:54.880 --> 00:23:00.319
My grandmother had, you know, my mom used to leave me with my grandmother all the time.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:02.000
So like that's her language.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.680
I used to go to church with her.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:24.160
So they actually put me in English as a second language class.
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:38.480
So it was like me, some Vietnamese and some Chinese, all struggling to learn English in a school that was literally across the street from a Hawaiian homestead.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:39.759
Wow.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.160
Okay, that's I just want to pause on that.
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:47.440
That's I mean, it's a poignant um fact, really.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:48.319
Wow.
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:58.000
So, and I hated English as a second language classes because the teachers were always very mean and like hyper-American.
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:13.680
I mean, like I remember first grade, where we had to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance several times until we could pronounce it in in a more reasonably fluent uh Americ standard American accent.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:24.160
And yeah, so but by the time I was in fifth grade, English had become my primary language.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:38.799
Um and I still feel that disconnection, that I forced myself to become an English language speaker because that was the only way to survive.
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:44.400
And I just those classes were torture for me.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:52.160
And that is also something I can relate to deeply with my grandmother, that you know, we had to assimilate.
00:24:52.799 --> 00:25:10.000
And again, you know, we were forced to assimilate in a school right across the street from a Hawaiian homestead community and on land that used to belong to King Luna Lilo.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:24.160
You know, I I do want to ask about some of your current writing being in digital spaces, but based on what we're talking about right now, I think it's so important to ask, you know, what made you choose writing?
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:30.480
Um, just especially right with this kind of tension and this struggle between English and Olalo.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:39.039
And then also, though, when you chose writing, was it within this vein of like a historical scholar, right?
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:48.400
So that you would write along these topics, or was it you know just a love of writing, and then you ended up moving to kind of into a historical political space?
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.640
What was that catalyst for you?
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:53.519
That's a very interesting question.
00:25:53.680 --> 00:26:00.480
Um, so I'm Hawaiian, I'm also Filipino, and there are certain stereotypes.
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.640
By the way, I also speak the galog and I also speak Spanish.
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:10.000
Um, but anyway, so I'm Hawaiian and Filipino.
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:13.599
There's a stereotype that Hawaiians and Filipinos are very good singers.
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.240
Unfortunately, I was not given any of those gifts.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:30.480
So, like I like to joke around that because I could not dance hula, and because I I can't chant, I can't ollie, I can't sing, I went into writing.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.000
Um the silent art.
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:35.839
The silent art, right?
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:57.920
Um, but but also it's um to be honest with you, I began to write uh years and years ago because I was trying to remember some of the teachings of my of my mother and my grandmother.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:13.519
I didn't want to forget those memories, and I was still trying to like remember what I had learned before the fifth grade when I was still an Olalo Hawaii uh speaker um at that level.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:27.359
And so for me it was kind of like a therapy session um at first that I was writing these cultural traits, these cultural histories, but also um learning about Hawaiian culture.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:30.880
So the the first step was the culture, then the history came.
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:44.160
Um I just found our people, the wisdom of our people so deeply healing and so deeply profound.
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:45.920
I just wanted to share it.
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:50.160
And so I just began writing.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:52.720
Um, that was you can say the catalyst.
00:27:52.880 --> 00:28:03.839
It was just my eagerness to kind of hey, you know, I was reading this this newspaper over here, and it's talking about um the police officer who was shot on January 17, 1893.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.359
Like, did you know about this?
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:21.680
And a lot of our Hawaiians, because of our of our education system, we don't know much, a lot of Hawaiians don't really know a lot of the details of our history, um, and a lot of the details of our culture.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.680
And so, yeah, I began writing.
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:32.400
I wanted to share, I wanted to just just talk to other Hawaiians about, hey, did you know this?
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:38.559
So, yeah, it was sharing, but also trying to have a conversation with the community as well.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:58.480
So that my earliest writings actually reflected things about Hawaiian spirituality, about um Olala no eao, and those things, and slowly it began to get into more um historical and uh political perspectives.
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:09.279
Yeah, how I mean how what era, like how what age or what grade in school was that where you kind of you started to have an inkling that writing was gonna be something that was a part of your life?
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:20.160
So uh the first time I ever got published was in volume two of OEV, a native Hawaiian journal.
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:47.359
Yes, and the reason how I got published, I was like 16 years old, and I had written this whole long essay about Kla Kawa and his world tour, and it found its way to uh Mahi Alani Dudoua, and then she contacted me saying, Do you want to publish that in OEV?
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:51.359
And I'm like, it's not really good, you know.
00:29:51.440 --> 00:30:08.319
I I lacked this the confidence I was a teenager, and she was like, No, it this is not the writing of a teenager, this is college level, but how you broke down these events, you know, um more people need to hear it.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:14.319
So she uh asked me to expand on my original essay.
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:20.799
She really mentored me in my writing, and I always credit Mahalani Dudwa also as an inspiration for me.
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:48.720
And um I do think about her a lot when I'm writing, and especially my poetry, because she also had inspired me to go into poetry as well as well, because she said to me before one of her advices to me was that there are just certain things you cannot say in an essay or a a scholarly, you know, article.
00:30:49.119 --> 00:31:03.839
There's just things that you just can only be expressed by by the rhythm of a poem because how you breathe is just like writing a poem.
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:14.960
So yeah, uh so I began actually writing poetry when I was still a teenager, but I've only I kept a lot of my poetry hidden until recently.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:17.839
Oh, well, I really appreciate you sharing that.
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:23.440
Um that's uh really a beautiful, and I can see the covers of the OEV journal as well.
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:26.079
That was a really special time, I think.
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:45.680
Um currently, right, a lot of your work lives in digital spaces, public spaces, places where history is often encountered quickly or out of context, or it's shaped by this, you know, economy that fragments attention instead of deepens it.
00:31:45.920 --> 00:32:01.200
And so when your work, and I would think, right, it would be it's more so in the current era, maybe not when you were first writing, right, enters these fast digital spaces, like kind of like what are you maybe listening for rather than designing for?
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:25.839
Or how do you stay oriented to who are you know searching for learning, who want some ike and connection, or or do you just write from you know from your na'al, write what you want to write, um trusting that like the words will go out and reach the people that they're supposed to reach?
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:38.960
So a lot of times, to be perfectly honest, um, I'll research something, then stumble upon something else, and then that gets me really excited, then I end up posting about it.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:47.440
But there are also times where people ask me like privately, hey, would you mind writing your um your monao about this topic?
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:48.720
I'm like, okay.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:33:02.960
But there are also times where I dream about a topic that something that I have a I have a dream that hey, you need to say something about this and this and this.
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.200
There's someone that needs to hear this.
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:11.039
So uh those those are the ways that I you know communicate.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:23.119
But the other thing lately that's been happening is that I've been trying to connect um historical touchstones in our in Hawaiian history with the present day.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:33.680
Um because I also am finding out that the younger generation that's how they connect with history, if they can connect it with their lives today.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:47.279
Um also I think you know in these digital spaces, and I'm connecting this to January 17th, and in a political, in that political sense, right?
00:33:47.440 --> 00:34:03.680
Um political conflict, I feel like we're in a contemporary political conflict and specific to writing online, especially about history, especially, I think where it's so vital, right, to get facts correct.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:08.480
Um, but also to hold that line about tone.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:29.360
Um, you know, what do you feel your kuleana is in the current landscape where there is it's just so tumultuous, I think, politically, and then I think etiquette, even online, um, the way people can just kind of call out others when when they're not right, or at least they're saying they're not.
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:38.559
Um, I just as I've listened to you today, there's so much of your work, I think, that like connects to Kupuna or lives in like spiritual spaces.
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:51.199
You know, how how do you, I guess, instead stay centered or or walk that line right of your own path with all of the distractions or kind of chaos around you?
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:58.800
So uh academic-wise, um, I'm actually finishing up a master's in history with a focus on public history.
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:05.039
Um and my particular interest is in decolonizing museum spaces.
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.800
Oh, interesting.
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:16.400
And I'm saying that because that's also something I've been trying to figure out in terms of social media.
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.719
How do we decolonize the digital the digital spaces?
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:30.400
And how do we what is the methodology that we are using when we're reclaiming our history?
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.880
So those are issues, and yeah, those are issues that I actually think about.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:55.679
But in addition to that, yeah, there's so much, I mean, I hate to say this, but there's so much AI slop on the internet that it is it is a struggle for many people to figure out what is real, what is not real, what is factually accurate and whatnot.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:08.719
So, like for me personally, um, if you look at my posts, there's usually a last slide um that actually names my sources um when it comes to books and stuff.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:20.400
Um so that way it's not a matter of credibility, it's a matter of I want people to read books, to read, learn how to research on their own.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:27.679
It's fine you disagree with me, but at least have your sources and at least have these sources verified, you know.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:37.119
Um, but right, there are topics where you cannot necessarily verify it through Western methodologies, right?
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:43.920
Um you it's someone's lived experiences, it's a spiritual space.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:37:07.119
And those are valid as well when we're talking about certain issues, uh certain topics, but we also need to be clear on where we are getting these ideas, where we we're getting this these monop these types of mono from.
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:09.760
So that way people would know.
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:26.480
And you know, um lately, because of the current political climate in the United States that's impacting Hawaii, uh, finding reliable sources is incredibly hard.
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:32.159
And we have a, I'm sorry to get a little bit political, but please save space.
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:55.280
But we have a regime that gaslights its own people, and one of the things that I've learned from Maria Reznor, um Riza, in her book Um Standing Up to a Dictator, is that we need to create networks of solidarity and we need to create trust among um people.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:17.039
And one of the ways is we need to we need to fact-check, we need to understand different people's perspective perspectives, but we also have to stand up to when regimes like the current one is trying to deny what we are seeing and feeling in front of us.
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:34.800
And so what you know, thinking about those um who are that emergent generation now in Hawaii, but also globally, um, you know, what do you think is some of the most important skills that are necessary?
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:41.280
I'm just thinking, right, you locked into writing, but you also mentioned research.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:48.159
Um but in just reflecting on the short time that we've talked, community, right?
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:51.360
And close connections with family members have been important.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:39:05.920
But as you've traveled, as you've talked to many people, um especially in the in the line of work that you do, you know, what do you feel is some of the most important skills that are just really vital for this up-and-coming generation to have?
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.960
Considering, you know, the political landscape, especially.
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:21.199
That's that's a tough question because uh I mean it's easy to say that we have to teach our youth critical thinking skills.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:27.519
But the truth of the matter is what are critical thinking skills in the first place?
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:29.519
We have to go back to the basics.
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:37.840
We have to learn we have to learn what makes a source a source.
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:51.840
What makes um how can we verify something that we can agree on, you know?
00:39:52.079 --> 00:40:16.000
Um for the next generation, they mean this is slightly off topic, but um in the original flyer for that I was sent about this particular program, um there was a talk, there was a mention of Ku O Koa as being interdependent, right?
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:23.199
Right, that it is independence, but how can we begin to frame it as interdependence?
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:37.280
But maybe that is something that we need to be teaching our kids as well in terms of when we're doing fact-checking and whatnot, is that not just interdependence, but intradependence.
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.239
That we are all part of a whole that works together collectively.
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:54.719
That because interdependence implies that there's differences, but intradependence implies that what I am is the same as you.
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:56.320
We're connected, right?
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:01.280
Um, we're connected because of this aina, we're connected, maybe we're related, we don't know.
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:09.840
Um, but we're also connected through the environment, like with the Kumalipo, for example, it's a genealogy chat, right?
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:22.320
That shows how this particular line of chiefs is connected to to everyone, um, not just Kanakamau, but everyone in the Pacific.
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.840
If you go by um Dr.
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:40.079
Rubalai Johnson's analysis of the Kumalibo, and you go before that, the gods, na kua, and then before that um the realm of pull, which includes nature.
00:41:40.480 --> 00:42:08.639
So when we're talking about the kids, um what something that the kids have to learn yeah, critical thinking skills, but also to recognize that intradependence, that we are part of a larger ecosystem, and that when we're talking about history, when we're talking about culture, we have to recognize what we say, how would that impact you?
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:10.880
How would that impact you?
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:29.199
Um, and that is something I think needs to have more discuss discussions about, is that that is a way of also fact-checking, is how something that you say is going to impact others around you.
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:31.199
That's beautiful.
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:49.199
Um, I also feel you know, the perfect way to kind of tie up this conversation as you take us to pole and the kumulipal and the spiritual, the spiritual realm as a place to, in a sense, right, kind of fact-check us that's based on community.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:56.079
Um, kind of even calling, right, in your family and your grandmother back into the room.
00:42:56.239 --> 00:43:07.519
Um, my last question is is really rooted in um a question that came out of my talk this morning with Kaimi, where he was speaking about hula and chance with prophecy.
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:14.880
And what he really wanted to see was like new chance about the new prophecy, the new visions.
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:33.599
And so, you know, my question to you is with these people that were so important to you in your life that set this foundation, and with the importance of your work, and I feel really being the driver for you is like the your connection to this spiritual space and to others.
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:42.880
What is your, you know, what is if you were to write a prophecy or that vision, what is your desired vision of a Hawaii in the future?
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.559
What is that for Adam?
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:48.079
We turn to the stewardship of the land.
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:54.159
And you know, and looking at do we really need these types of developments?
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:59.760
Do we really did we really need you know, all of these highways.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:12.639
Do you really need all of these huge buildings and concrete and whatnot instead of food systems, instead of uh healthcare, instead of being able to be in community with each other?
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:22.800
And I think that that is a paradox with social media is that you can build hundreds of thousands of followers, millions of followers.
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.079
I think I have 32,000 followers.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:30.880
Um but you can still feel isolated.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:59.440
And if my vision of a Hawaii would be something that would be a community where people know who lives next to next to them, where people feel like they can just be themselves, that they're safe, and that a community, yeah, that people in the community feel safe, and that you know, um.
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:06.719
Do you mind if I quickly just talk about um sorry?
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:13.679
I know this is supposed to be a closing question, but but I I'm I'm let's go with what you're feeling called to talk about.
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:21.199
I mean, I want us to be a Lahuy in the real sense of a Lahui.
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:28.960
And people, you know, when we talk about the term Lahuy, we think of nation and race, right?
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:38.400
Um, because of the fact that we Hawaii, we've adopted the Westphalian idea of a nation-state because of the Hawaiian kingdom, right?
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:50.159
We had centuries of indigenous governance and we eventually adopted this Western idea of a nation-state because it was meant to protect us from being invaded.
00:45:50.719 --> 00:46:15.199
Um but when you look at the word Lahui as a cognate in the rest of Polynesia, um, for example, uh Rahui in Tahitian and Rahui in um among the Maori means a place that has been sanctified, that is under Kapu.
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:38.719
So the original Maimana'o is that the original meaning of Lahui comes deep from ancient Polynesian thought that a Lahui is a community or people that have been made sacred, that have been consecrated and called upon to become a community.
00:46:39.199 --> 00:47:03.519
And I think going back to the prophecy idea is we have to go back to this idea of a Lahui as being a sacred space shared by all of us who believe, who believe in it, and who want to engage in it, and who have a kuliana and feel like they have a kuliana in it.
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:31.440
And so if I were to prophesize, I would want a a new Lahui that's based upon this idea of a community that is together out of a shared sacredness, out of a shared willingness to be together and to be in a safe space, um, that no one is left behind.
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:38.000
I mean in Olalohwaii, prior to the missionaries, we didn't even have a word for orphan.
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:47.440
Because we all took care of each other, and that's the kind of lahui that I I would want to live in.
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:51.519
That's the kind of lahui I would want to live in too.
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:52.800
Thank you.
