Skip Van Gardner on Surviving Psychological Death and His Book "Pivoting From Blue: One Year of Death, Divorce & Discovery"

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Welcome to the Life on Purpose Podcast.
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Conversations that explore holistic health and between the living, learning, and growing.
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All right, welcome back to the Life on Purpose podcast.
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Today I have a guest, Skip Van Gardner, author of his book, Pivoting from Blue: One Year of Death, Divorce, and Discovery.
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Skip, I I read the book and I'm almost speechless that anybody could go through as much as you did in a single year.
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And before you comment, I want I want to read just a little bit of a kind of a synopsis a little bit.
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Just a tad.
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So on a June morning off the Florida coast, a routine crossing to the Bahamas became a fight for survival.
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A 41-foot boat caught between two rogue squall lines for over two hours of hell.
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A thousand things that could go wrong, a body dangling over 3,000 feet of water, and the life raft buried and out of reach.
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But the storm was only the sharpest edge of the hardest year of his life.
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His marriage ending, his father dying, and his own mind hitting a wall, he had no language for.
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The instincts that kept him alive at sea, adapt fast, face the biggest wave first, cover the for the person beside you, became the one that carried him through everything on land.
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That says a lot about a single year.
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Yeah, I hadn't heard that before.
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Yeah.
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Um, so this took place between February 2025 and February 2026, correct?
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February 24th, 2025 to February 24th, 2026.
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So not that long ago.
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No.
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Uh-uh.
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How did you write this book so quickly?
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Um I've get I get that question a lot, actually.
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Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me on here.
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I appreciate it very much.
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Um, and it's always an interesting question.
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Uh part of it was from the mind events, and I know we'll get into that later, but there's a certain clarity that came with that.
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And when I started using writing to kind of re start recovering uh my mind, um, it's really was being able to go back into those moments very quickly.
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And having that what's called nonlinear time, or the compressions are called in the book, um, allowed those emotions just to flow out.
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And so the writing itself um came very quickly, and and I I do write fairly fast.
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So was it kind of like a need?
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Like I have this like rushing through me, I just need to get it out.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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And there was a book that I had read many years ago, and it was a writing process when I first started writing when I was a kid.
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Um that was you had a journal and you had a pen, and you were not allowed periods or commas, and you just had to keep writing and writing until you had to stop.
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And uh so I remembered that book over and over as I started the writing process of this, and it was very cathartic at the same time.
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Sure.
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And um, very, very helpful to figure out exactly what I was feeling about certain things, and as chapters kept flowing, um, you know, the story just kept playing out.
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So one of the themes um of the book was kind of this near-death experience and how that kind of changed everything moving forward.
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Um, I want to I want to start there because it was it was such an interesting theme, I guess.
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I don't know if no if theme is the right word, but it was such an interesting way to watch you kind of go through these things um in the book.
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And again, it was written nonlinear.
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Um, so you're going through kind of these simultaneous breaking apart, right?
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Life-shattering events.
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Um, but the but the near-death experience is kind of what changed everything.
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So can you speak to that just a little bit?
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Sure.
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Um, you know, when we were on the boat, it was it was a lot.
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I mean, I I've been at sea for a long time, and same with uh Michael, and um it just took its toll.
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But you know, being able to kind of rely on each other and understanding each other very quickly, adapting to what we had to do, you know, because we in most squalls they'll come in for about 10 minutes and beat you up a little bit.
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So we thought, okay, uh, we're in this one, it should end.
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But it did.
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And then the steering column started breaking, and then you know, the captain's chair started breaking.
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And so there was just it just wouldn't quit.
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And so we did whatever we had to do to to keep focused, keep each other on the boat.
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Um, there were a lot of details in the book that you know uh we didn't have um, you know, basically either one of us could have taken off at any point in time, got tossed off the boat if we didn't hold on to each other, and so my leg was wrapped around his and uh he was holding on to my back and whatever else we could hold on to.
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Um and then to your question though, in between the storms, when I went down into the cabin, um that's when I saw things that I didn't need Michael to know.
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And because we didn't know exactly what was gonna go on next, we didn't know if the boat was doing if it was gonna make it.
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We'd had problems with the engines on the way out.
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And um, then when the second storm showed up, that's when everything changed.
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And so we rode it out for another hour.
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Um and the pivot though really came, and by the way, blue being the name of the boat.
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Uh so in terms of life-changing, getting off the boat that first time and staring at it for about five or ten minutes, just waiting for it to sink, um, is when the mind pressure kind of just started.
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And then when we walked up to the restaurant, um, realizing the boat wasn't gonna sink in in the dock there, um, that's when I went deaf and blind.
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I mean, I was just sitting down and then everything just went boom.
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Like literally, could not see, could not hear.
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Nothing.
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And then you know, I compared it to Bob Ross.
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That's what I was saying.
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Bob Ross is God's cousin.
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Um, it came back one little dot at a time, like a canvas.
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Wow.
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And I was staring west.
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And so as it started coming back, it just kept big getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and then the sound, and I could hear everything.
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So it was like all your senses were just elevated, like three times, and so it was deafening in a lot of ways, and you could hear people everywhere.
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And then the real pivot came though, uh, six days later, um, when I was uh out at I'd had the kids up in Wisconsin, and uh I looked down and I had forgotten one thing that happened on the boat.
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My mind had just shut it out.
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And so that night um I looked down in the water off this dock and I saw the 3,000 feet of water below me, and remembered then of when I had almost fallen over, my foot got caught on the ladder and held me in place.
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And uh it was at that point in time I went back in, and um that's when the mine just you know went gone.
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And I went, oh, it's down to the bottom.
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And uh so when I came back from there and and there's a video on Instagram, I don't know if you've seen it called Go Mind.
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Um, that's what it was like.
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It was like a million images flooding in at one time.
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And this was six days later.
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Six days later, yeah.
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And so July 2nd, about two o'clock in the morning.
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And um, but when those images came in, you know, there was no life, there was no body, it's just your mind, all sudden my mind, um, just said go.
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And those are the images that I saw uh in there, and so from that point in time I had no painful memories anymore.
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Like I had them, but they didn't cause pain anymore.
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Okay, and so the three images that were missing from all the millions of images that were there were Annie, Harper, and Boehm.
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Your family, the family, yeah.
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And um, so I think it and you know, we've since kind of analyzed it, that those three images are what drove me to change everything and the way I looked at everything, and so we started rebuilding from there, and it just took a lot of time, but worth it, absolutely worth it.
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Why do you think those were missing?
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I think those are the things that I held most precious, and I think my mind wanted to get rid of everything else.
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Ah, so it left out everything that truly mattered and was showing you all the things that maybe you were focusing on that didn't matter as much?
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Uh that's probably one good approach to it, yeah.
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And so because every other image that I've ever had in my life was appearing and just drifting around.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And um, and when those just went like that, that's when I just made the conscious choice, and that's when I took the first big deep breath that I could feel.
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Yeah.
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And um, and I just started seeing things differently.
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I had to fake it for a while with the kids, and uh they were like, You okay?
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I'm like, Yeah, great.
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How long did that last?
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Um a few months.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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So um, but you know, you you faked it as as much as possible.
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I just was real quiet.
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Yeah, and you know, I had my therapist um who's great, and she's ex-military, so you know, we we tend to get along very well, and um I listened to her, and uh, but I think one of the funny things was I found myself um, and this was interesting because it kind of went along with coming off the boat, but I found myself sitting down in uh one of the rooms downstairs in the kitchen, just staring out the window, and that went on for a couple hours, and then I realized, okay, well, that screen's in my way.
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So I took off the screen, like it's filtering the light.
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I'm like, I gotta be able to see outside.
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Yeah, and so then I took off that screen and then I took off the mullions on the window, and I was able to see clearly through that window.
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So for this went on for, like I said, a couple of months where I would just move to the next window and do the same thing on that one, and uh eventually took down all the screens and mullions on the back side of the house.
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Um, but it's very clear, and uh family members have come over and said, Oh my god, it's so light in here now.
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Like, thank you.
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Yeah, so that was a big changing moment that was the whole intention of direction.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Wow.
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Just saying things differently.
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Yeah, so this was not like a typical you you literally died and came back to life.
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This was something different.
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So when people hear about kind of you know these near-death experiences, it wasn't leaving and coming back in in the traditional sense.
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This was something else.
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Yeah, you know, it's funny.
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I I've talked to a lot of people that have died since then.
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And um, one of which is in the book Jeremy, and he died three times in that same year physically.
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And I asked him, I said, you know, I just said, look, what's worse, psychological death or physical death?
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And he said, psychological death is far worse because you remember everything and you keep reliving it.
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He said, When I came back, I came back in hell, and I think that's one of the things that I've been lucky with.
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Um, that I came back with a positive aspect of life.
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And a lot of times I meet the guys that have died, and I don't know why we run into each other.
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It's in the eyes, you can sense it, and the eyes are always green, and um, and that's one of the weird things that happened to me after July.
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My eye color changed from brown to green.
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No, it's yeah, and uh so it's funny that because I'm sorry, is that my thing?
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And uh, anyways, um, so I've run into all these guys, and and it's interesting to the guys that have been dead for three hours.
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I've run into them and uh listening to the differences of of what they carried back, and some have no memory of anything, yeah.
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And so I think it is a different thing, depends on what it is too.
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If it's a drug-induced death versus a you know a pure psychological death, then there it carries different things on the body when you come back.
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And I think mine was very lucky uh to be able to come back in this mode and and really work on it.
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Do you have any sense of why it would happen to you and not somebody else in that same situation?
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What made you unique in that it didn't happen to Michael?
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No, I I think part of it was well, it's funny.
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Uh with Michael, we have what's called sinking now.
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Um, where and it took a few months for that to first start happening, but where it's where we won't be in the same room or anything like that with families and things, but then all of a sudden we will just literally like send a picture of a of a tree to each other at the same exact moment, and it's like, dude, what are you thinking?
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It's like, I don't know, I thought you wanted to see a tree, and I'm like, Well, so did I, and that and so this happens to us all the time, and we'll call each other at the same exact moment, and literally our cars will be passing like that, not realizing.
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Wow, and so you've got this weird connection.
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Um, after that, that took a couple of months to develop.
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Um, but it's been very interesting.
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But why it happened to me, I don't know.
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I think kind of just a combination of a lifetime and everything coming in at once, and then trying to figure out exactly what your reason to live is, and I think that made a huge difference.
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And knowing what we'd gone through with a divorce and everything else like that, I think there was a reason to get it right, and maybe that's exactly what forced my mind to say, you know what, you're not gonna let your body die.
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You're gonna fight for it, and you're gonna come back and fight for what you need to fight for, right?
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And um, I think that made a big difference in in in from July going forward.
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So, had there a bit of buildup over your life of kind of not really understanding what your purpose was or what the important things in life were.
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So this was kind of um spotlight on that.
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Yeah, I I think that's a great question.
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Um, absolutely.
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I think looking at things and and painting rainbows and unicorns and you know, always having a positive answer for when things really suck, yeah, versus saying, you know what, it's gonna suck.
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And I'm gonna have to live with this for a little bit.
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But if I do one little thing a day, just one, it will come it will continue to build on each other, and you will start to see the positive things coming out of it.
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And you for me, I can't speak to other people, and and one of the things I'm very careful on is not to tell somebody else to do something.
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Sure.
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I figured out that I can only control what I do.
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And but for me, being able to look at it each day and be like, all right, what do I need to do today to be a better person?
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Not just for me, but for my kids and even my ex-wife, you know, and and for other people.
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And being grateful for those moments um helps get me out of bed in the morning, you know, to go for that walk and to just take it in and let the past go as much as possible, or try to figure out why that was causing so much trouble for me, and just accepting reality for what it is and not trying to overpaint it with everything.
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Sure.
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There's an analogy.
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I'm sorry, go.
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Well, I I just I was I was thinking it of this in terms of kind of the psychological torture we put ourselves through, not realizing that we're doing it.
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Um, and then you know, having to face the fact that we have been doing it when we realize it, I'm sure is kind of one of those moments.
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And that's kind of how I read it too when I was reading the book, is you know, over time we create kind of these these habits, these thought patterns, these processes that we don't know that we're hurting ourselves or hurting others in the process.
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And sometimes it takes like this massive shift to recognize it and to stop doing it.
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Yeah.
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And I think one of the tricks is you know, I know, and thank you for reading the book.
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Yeah, um, and there was a one passage in there about where it's like having a messy room and you just keep putting on a bare blanket of all the crap that's in that corner, yeah.
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And eventually you're gonna have to clean out the house.
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Yeah.
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And yeah, so my option was either clean up the house or not.
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And um, and so that's exactly what I started doing, just one little thing at a time, and uh and finding what was really holding me back from all these different things, or why I'd convinced myself that it always had to be perfect.
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Yeah.
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Um, because life is not perfect and people are not perfect, right?
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And I think it I tried to hold up too many people as being perfect, um, versus accepting the reality.
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And uh in a conversation the other day about um, I don't know if you know what a sucker is, um, you know, in uh in the book, it's around the uh the tomato plants.
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Uh-huh.
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And so on a tomato vine, it's real pretty.
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Um, it looks like it's gonna like bear fruit all day long, but all it does is just sit there and suck away from the main plant.
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And so talking about that the other day with somebody, I just started clipping the suckers out of my life.
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.559
Yeah, and uh the people that just constantly drain you, yeah.
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.839
And so it's been a shift in in that, and I also rediscovered some friends that I hadn't seen in a long time.
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.559
Oh, so that's been really beneficial.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.359
And now getting to meet people from around the world, um, it's been really neat.
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:05.519
And uh I ran into a group of Australians in Boston um just recently, and uh we had the most fascinating conversations about the book, and it was fun, it was really neat.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.680
That's amazing, that's amazing.
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:37.440
Let's I so that's kind of a perfect pivot into um kind of the the writing process because so when I first opened it, and I hope I I think we follow each other on social media, and I hope you saw when I opened your book um to start reading before before we scheduled this this conversation, you start the book with a um playlist of songs.
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:43.279
And I all I have always said if I were ever to write a book, it would have to have a playlist attached to it.
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:47.519
And I was almost mad at you that I didn't do it first.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.440
That's funny.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.480
But I I thought it was brilliant.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:20:01.279
I thought it was brilliant because music is extremely important to me in being able to kind of um process life.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:08.240
Um and there are certain songs that if they come in or if they come on, it will, it's it's like a time machine.
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:15.279
It'll take me right back there and I will feel the same feelings that I felt, or maybe they're a little softer because you know, time does them.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:29.359
But it is I don't know how to explain it, but you you did so well, you know, incorporating kind of you know, that music piece of it into the writing.
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:34.160
And I actually um downloaded that playlist before I started the book.
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:44.400
Um, so I have in my Spotify, I have your playlist in there so I could kind of feel it and understand it as I was reading it because that's how I would have written a book also.
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:45.519
Oh, that's awesome.
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:46.960
Yes, yes.
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:52.160
So that was, you know, kind of a really like, oh my God, I love this.
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:53.519
I love this so much.
00:20:53.680 --> 00:21:02.799
So talk to me about that a bit, the music piece as you're kind of putting this book together and what music meant to you and how you've attached it to some of these.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.160
Um yeah, absolutely.
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:16.400
Um it's funny because um, you know, now the song's kind of getting big, but at that point in time, um, it's the Red Clay Stray song in there, um, I'm Still Fine, was the one that was playing on the boat.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:18.640
That's on my playlist, by the way.
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.319
Yeah, and that was playing on the boat when the boombox won Airborne.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:22.720
Yeah.
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:31.519
And so that was one of the first songs I started using um weeks later, um, because I had to process exactly what took place on the boat.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:32.000
Right.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:37.440
And so that created the emotional charge for being able to write those action scenes about the boat.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:44.000
Um, and then as I was looking at other songs, I would play, you know, I'd stay on the same walking course, which obviously read the book.
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.839
So staying on the same walking course, I never have to think about where I'm going.
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:48.319
Right.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.880
And I went through a thousand songs.
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:57.759
Um, but that playlist is the ones that I kept coming back to that would dictate a certain emotion for me.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:58.079
Yeah.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.759
And then same thing on the writing.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:10.000
And it's funny now having talked to a lot of people around, um, and we have as kind of a reading guide for book clubs and for anyone that's reading it.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:10.319
Yeah.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:18.559
A lot of people, and and now that you've, you know, that you've listened to some of the songs first, um, a lot of people reading the book and then going and finding the song list.
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:18.880
Yeah.
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:25.440
And then playing that song list back for a particular passage that's related to it because it has the corresponding chapters.
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.680
So I did it the I did it the opposite way.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:41.599
I listened to the playlist first before I started reading because it kind of set the tone for what emotions I felt like I was probably going to feel reading it, or at least tap into the ones that you were trying to express while writing.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:42.079
Okay.
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:49.599
Um, I did it backwards just because, like I said, that that music piece is so important to me.
00:22:49.759 --> 00:23:00.160
Like if somebody were get to give me their playlist and say these are the songs that you know were important at a certain period of my life, I would understand that more than probably anything.
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:00.640
Right.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:05.839
So again, I cannot stress how much like I loved that music piece of it.
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:06.799
That is awesome.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:07.039
Yeah.
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:07.759
So that was amazing.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.880
Can I ask you a question, Brandon?
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:09.440
Yes, please.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:16.000
Um, so of the songs that were on there, which ones had the most emotional impact for you while you were reading?
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:22.880
Um, so Fine Line, of course, and then I'm still fine, because that one was on my playlist as well.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:27.920
Um, those were the two that probably stuck out the most.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:29.920
Let me pull it up.
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:32.319
There might have been one other one.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:43.359
Like I said, I've got I've got your playlist like literally right here on my skin corner.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.880
Um walls.
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:49.920
Yeah.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:52.960
Landslide.
00:23:57.359 --> 00:23:58.799
Yeah, probably those.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:04.079
I mean, Fine Line was a was a just a changing song for me.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.480
And um because a few years ago I would have never listened to Harry Styles.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:12.720
But that song was a lifeline for me, night after night after night.
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:13.039
Yeah.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:22.319
And as I was processing the divorce and and you know, owning my side of what it was, um, Fineline was absolutely essential for that.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:29.920
And then, you know, flipping from Fineline to the next thing you know, you've got, I mean, some other song on the the next second, you know, mercy me.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.720
And all of a sudden I was like, how am I getting between these two songs?
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:42.160
But they they would generate certain emotions that I need to capture about a certain thing I need to get out, either in writing or in the thought process.
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:47.759
So let me ask you this, because I find this very fascinating, because it's not a song you would search for.
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:49.279
How did it find you?
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:55.680
As I was out walking, I started out with Black Pumas because I needed energy.
00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:04.480
And um, so next thing you know, it was like I I would try something different and see if that triggered an emotion in me or certain memory.
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:12.480
And um, you know, one of the one of the ones without taking too much time of it, but um Iron Sky by Paolo Nottini.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:24.799
Um, you know, one of one of the um reviews that just came out, it was actually an editorial, was talking about the most charged language in the book of the most rage comes out towards the end.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:29.599
And um Paolo Nottini's Iron Sky was absolutely essential for that.
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:33.119
And uh because it's a beautiful song, beautifully written.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:46.960
Um, but as I was trying to figure out, okay, are we gonna make this final charge for our mother, you know, and rescue her, then that song played every ounce of of a role uh in my mind.
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:47.200
Yeah.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:50.799
One while I was writing and two before we made the move.
00:25:51.119 --> 00:26:05.759
And um and that was, you know, but going back to even fine line again, you know, I would play that song just in random, and uh and it always brings a smile to my face, even though it was a moment in time at that point that was so painful.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:06.160
Right.
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.119
Um, but now it just makes me smile that hey, you know what?
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:16.319
You did walk a fine line, you got to the edge, and you walk back and you use that song to to say, I've already been there.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:16.640
Right.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.160
So now I'm gonna go forward.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.559
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:29.440
I yes, I just I I love that so much, the the music piece of it and what it can do to you internally.
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:48.319
So the the walking part, um, this was such a this was such a funny part of the book because it seems so simple, but it was such a huge thing for you um to be able to kind of get through all of these compounding things that were happening in your life.
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:57.920
So divorce, your dad's sick, um, your mother, um, and then the near-death experience.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:09.759
Um and the the walking, like I said, it's just it was this life-changing thing that that you started that is just so so simple.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.559
Can you talk about that just a little bit with that?
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:17.440
Yeah, yeah, no, it's um, and I still walk once or twice a day.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:22.559
Um, and it became I think you use the term time capsule of contemplation.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:26.960
And so I started walking and then I started extending that walk.
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:27.920
And it's nothing crazy.
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.359
I know people that walk for three or four hours.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:39.119
I don't have the time for that, you know, I work, and um but I found that I would just take the same path, so I didn't have to think about the path, and that took about a month or two.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:43.279
Um, I still don't know the names of the streets, I have no idea.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:48.160
But um, so I started walking and then I would listen to one song over and over and over.
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:56.880
And and I've since learned that that allowed my mind to basically create a room of white noise, yeah, so that I only had to focus on one thing.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.559
Yeah, and I didn't have to sing along with lyrics, I didn't have to do anything like that.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.279
So I ended up playing the same song list over and over.
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:11.119
Um, and it would take me through the different emotional states that I was trying to conquer that day, or whatever problem I was about to have.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:19.119
Um, and so over the course of I don't know, call it four to six months, um, I just defined that that walking path.
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:21.279
So I knew where there was a crack.
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:26.160
I didn't have to worry about dog poop being on the sidewalk, or if I was gonna take a right, take a left.
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.960
Um, so it allowed my mind to absolutely focus on just what I need to focus.
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:33.039
So some people may use yoga for that.
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:33.519
I don't know.
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:40.960
For me, it's about being outside, getting the sweat going, even when it's cold out, um, and also being able to feel nature at the same time.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.039
And there's some mornings where I don't play anything and I just listen to everything that's around.
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:45.440
Yeah.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:50.319
And, you know, I'm lucky enough to have sunrises uh nearby on a little pond.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:55.279
And so I snap a photo of that sunrise every morning as I'm walking by and share it with friends around the country.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:59.839
Yeah, and um so there's just those little moments to be grateful for, right?
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:08.240
And you know, uh, it's often on the walk that you know, have a conversation with God for a couple of minutes just to thank him for kids and whatever else is going on that day.
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:15.680
And um, that was also the process for me of of understanding God in a different light um was through walking.
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:21.599
And I realized that the way that I grew up, and this goes back to the previous question about the pressure that you felt growing up.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:34.559
Um for me, there was so much of that you're supposed to fear God, and you know, I don't want to take this all the way there, but I realized I don't have friends that I trust and that I love that I fear, yeah.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.240
And so why not just be a good friend and look up to them?
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:40.319
Right and not fear him.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:42.640
And so that also helped me understand that.
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.920
And so there were moments on the walk where I was like, Did I just think that?
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.680
And I'm like, okay, let's take the next 20 minutes and really kind of contemplate that.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:53.519
And so I would just take that same thought and I would just be like, okay.
00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:04.160
And rather than you know, ask him for this, ask him for that, it just became something where like we'd have this conversation of you know, talk about my godmother, you know, and just little moments like that.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:08.559
And then those kept feeding into the book um as I was writing as well.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:16.720
And uh, but the walking part is just it was it was key because it started that you know about six or eight months before um the year really started.
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:17.119
Yeah.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:21.279
And that was based off a good friend of mine from North Carolina um that told me about that.
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.839
And he said he just started doing it every night after dinner, and it changed his world a lot.
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:31.119
So I was hoping that we would get there because it was more than it it wasn't just a walk.
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:46.240
Yeah, it was it was a talk with God, it was a talk with yourself, it was a way to focus, um, focus your thoughts or process your thoughts, where you're not stuck in the environment in which the chaos is happening.
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:49.440
You are outside of it, so you can process it just a little bit better.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:50.160
Correct.
00:30:50.319 --> 00:31:07.119
And it's funny because even thinking about that in terms of like in a marriage, too, just taking that walk and having that physical separation I've discovered for me, having that physical separation from your partner, even if it's a small amount of time, gives you that physical separation, yeah, where it's just you.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.160
And you might be able to answer some like really tough questions about your own life.
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.039
And I found the walks very essential for that.
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:23.119
Um, and I would come back and look at things a little bit differently that night and just be like, you know what, I need to own that.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:24.960
Yeah, or hey, you know what?
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.359
I didn't I didn't need to take that.
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:33.359
And so I think that became very helpful and and the walks became very clinical in a way.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:35.680
And um go ahead, I'm sorry.
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:41.279
You had some very you said had some really interesting experiences on the walk at a bridge, correct?
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.920
If I remember correctly, in in the book.
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.559
This was more than just walks, this was a very spiritual experience for you.
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:49.680
Very much.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:51.759
Yeah, the courts of heaven episode.
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:53.680
Um, that was just after the bridge there.
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:59.039
Um, and uh, you know, that that's spurred some controversy about that.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:03.839
And um, some people prefer to call it, you know, um, mind events and stuff like that.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:10.640
But you know, having a good faith base to me, um, that became essential.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:16.079
And particularly that night after my father shook my hand, you know, the last time I saw him before he died.
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:21.759
Um, and then I believe that's called his final gift is the name of the chapter.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:39.440
And uh, and it was just a really amazing moment um to to feel that energy from him one last second, and to think back because of the way my mind works, on the thousands of times that I shook his hand, you know, right, and uh being so grateful to get the one last handshake when he wasn't moving.
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:44.799
And it was after I read the letter to him that his hand just came up over his shoulder and he said, Thank you.
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:46.079
And that was it.
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:51.599
And um, it was a pretty crazy night that night, um, but a great one, and very grateful for it.
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.000
So yeah, and it just happened to be cool enough too.
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:55.680
So that made it even nicer.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:06.400
I feel like maybe we should look at those moments with more gratitude than more sadness.
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:07.920
Um I agree.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:12.319
And that's kind of how I how I read that part of the book too.
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:18.880
That you know, the end doesn't have to be um traumatic.
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:26.160
It can be filled with with gratitude and um peace, um, and all of that.
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:33.920
So yeah, I appreciated, I appreciated like that that portion of it because it was almost it's sad, but it's beautiful.
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:34.720
Yeah.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:41.839
I think, you know, it's in talking with a lot of different people that have read the book and then look back on certain parts of their life, you know.
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:56.640
Um, you know, for instance, like I mentioned about a guy coming out of the pharmacy, you know, the cash register guy, and he's a wonderful guy, and just saying how he had read the book and thanked me for writing the book, and that he was able to look back on his father's death differently than he previously did.
00:33:56.720 --> 00:34:01.920
Yeah, and then telling me that he already knew who I was, but didn't want to say anything until the finish of the book.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.160
And I was like, Well, that's really cool.
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:07.359
And I said, I'm I'm very grateful that it helped you.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:13.280
And he said, No, listen, I appreciate it because I would not have looked back on my father's death the same way had I not read your book.
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:18.000
And um, so those moments and being grateful for them are definitely key.
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:29.519
And and to your point, being grateful for having had that time with them before they pass, um, and looking at a life like that um means that we did it right.
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:30.000
Yeah.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:38.800
And I meet a lot of people who have great regrets over death, um, and I feel for them because it means that they were missing things along the way.
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:49.039
And one of the things that I hope people take out of the book is live every moment, man, you know, be grateful for them because time passes very quickly.
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:49.360
Right.
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.440
And you never know where you're gonna be tomorrow.
00:34:51.679 --> 00:35:09.360
And um, so even if it's like the end of the day and you're wanting to say thank you for something, um, thank an office person, you know, thank someone in your life just for being who they are, and maybe the smallest of things, but and it changes the way that you're able to end the day and be grateful for just being having that day.
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:10.239
Right.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:14.639
Have you always felt like that, or was this a shift after the year?
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:18.320
Uh I've been very grateful, but not in this way.
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:18.639
Yeah.
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:24.880
I mean, you know, now it's um after July 2nd, just everything changed.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:30.639
And uh I often say I wish everybody could die and come back, but somebody made a great point to me.
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:32.960
They're like, Well, what if it came back on the negative side?
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:35.199
And I was like, Well, I forgot about that part.
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:36.480
So maybe not.
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:37.760
There was another option.
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:39.039
There is the other option.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:43.440
And having met those guys that came back who live in hell every day, like I uh maybe some of that.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:57.760
And yeah, you know, I often say that like I I don't wish what happened to my mind, and and it's funny because on those walks, too, I found that there was a battle going on between the subconscious and the conscious in my own mind.
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.360
And the subconscious was giving me these little clues about what was coming.
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:06.239
And in some of the photos, I don't know if on the website, you know, there's certain photos that are on there.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:11.679
When I started looking back, I'm going, oh my god, I took that photograph and I didn't even know that was coming.
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:16.000
So it's like the subconscious was telling me that your mind was about to go.
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:28.480
And um, then I went back and looked at the photos that I took like six hours before the event and realized, oh my god, it was just saying goodbye, you know, certain photos of like looking over Lake Michigan and uh saying goodbye to the water.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:33.119
And uh, so it's it's been eye-opening in so many different ways.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:34.639
And I think for other people too.
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:37.039
Yeah, some like strange synchronicities.
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:48.239
Like, how do you come to terms with what you believed life was for all these years and then what it has morphed into, like your reality is different, yeah, very much so.
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.480
Do you ever feel like you're crazy?
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:52.079
It's funny.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:59.440
Um, I read one review of like um I thought he was insane, and then I realized in the next chapter that he was probably the most sane person I've ever met.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:00.159
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:04.880
And uh now and I did uh because um I didn't think I was crazy, but I just didn't know what was going on.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:05.440
Sure.
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:09.679
And so that's where I was just quiet because just trying to process it.
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.760
Yeah, just trying to process it and realized that you know, time it was, it was just gonna take time.
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:28.719
Yeah, and now not having a fear of time or of death just changes everything about life because now things don't upset me in the same way that they would, because there were always deadlines, there was always this, there was all and now there are still deadlines, you know.
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.199
I have writing article deadline, you know.
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:41.360
Um, but they don't affect me in the same way that they did because I know as long as I'm in process, I'll feel good about it by the end of the day.
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:52.159
And um, and now just looking back on the things and and calling up people I haven't seen in 20 years and being like, hey, by the way, sorry for being absent for the last 18 years of your life.
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.440
Um, you were always a good person, and I appreciated it very much.
00:37:55.599 --> 00:38:00.239
And uh and just leaving it at that, you know, no great catch-up.
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:03.599
Um usually pretty good.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.960
Yeah, um, usually pretty good.
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:09.760
It depends on like, you know, have to be careful not to try to inject yourself in their life.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.199
I mean, at least for me.
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:21.760
And um, but it's been nice, and you know, I found myself steering back to a lot of old classmates that I've absolutely loved for years, and you know, we talk all the time.
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:26.480
And I've been lucky to be surrounded with those people, and they're all over the globe.
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:44.639
Um, but you know, the support that I found in them, and they're really interesting people, and I find myself really drawn to interesting people now, and also the need to find interesting things to do, yeah, and not just abide by the routines that I think had just clogged my mind for so long.
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:47.039
Yeah, and that's what created those frustrations.
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:49.920
And you know, it's easy to fall into a routine.
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:59.440
And in the book, I you know, talk about like yes, the routine became walking, but it wasn't a routine because it was actually being used for critical thinking at the same time.
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:07.840
And so those moments were just the the things that to your point, which I thought was very eloquent, you're not distracted by everything around you, right?
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:11.760
You're focused on what you need to focus, and um, and you get it done.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:15.599
And your body is getting rid of that extra energy that otherwise it would have stored.
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:23.119
And so that's where the walking became absolutely essential again in answering so many different questions about life and about that day and about that hour.
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:25.360
And God, did I make that breakfast burrito right?
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:26.480
You know, I don't know.
00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:27.440
Yeah.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.639
So I want to ask you a difficult question.
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:44.000
Um, because you know, even though there was this massive shift within yourself, um, and kind of this rebirth a little bit, um, in that within that year, your marriage did still end.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.440
So it didn't change anything in in that sense.
00:39:47.760 --> 00:40:01.280
How do you look at that, I guess, that little piece, that falling away, that relationship um in the context of this kind of bigger picture?
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:02.880
Oh, that's a great question.
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:10.639
Um I have thanked Annie for filing for a divorce uh more times than I can tell you.
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:17.599
Um, because it set in in motion a chain of events um that I would have never gone through.
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:23.679
And so being able to look at it from now from this perspective in this time, I'm very grateful for it.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:27.039
And we talk every day, and and I love her.
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:27.840
I mean, I do.
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:33.119
And I put down at one point in time whether we're married or not, she's still my wife.
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:35.760
Yeah, you know, because that's part of life.
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:39.840
And um, and so I think we've both learned a lot.
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.599
I can speak for myself.
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:58.400
I've learned how to now understand things a lot better, be more open to illogical words that might be used, um, just certain patterns that exist that where I probably tried to change someone into what I thought that they should be.
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:06.079
Learning to love somebody for just who they are with their mistakes and with their whatever um makes life just better.
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:06.719
Sure.
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:12.400
And it allows you to exist and not be frustrated day by day um in doing that.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:23.440
But you know, that chain of events that took place from February 24th, 25, you know, it was four months to the day um that the filing took place that Michael invited me on the boat.
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:32.559
And so when I said yes, uh I didn't even think about it like that until you're able to look back and in retrospect and be like, oh my god, that was four months to the day.
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:32.960
Yeah.
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:41.760
You know, and so you started, I started looking at all these different um patterns that took place and you know, certain judgments or judgment calls uh that took place after that.
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:52.079
Um, and now being able to look back on the marriage and and all of that and appreciate it for what it was, you know, having two great kids, we stuck it out, prioritize the children.
00:41:52.159 --> 00:42:01.599
One of the things I always hear back from readers is there was no doubt in my mind that whatever you guys did to yourselves, like the children were the priority no matter what.
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:02.000
Yeah.
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:03.599
And and that's cool to hear.
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:10.960
I didn't really think of that as a theme, but that's what's come back out of the readers and uh and interviews that I've been doing with people.
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:13.840
And um, it's it's been really neat.
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:14.639
Yeah.
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:44.079
Yeah, that was um, I guess that was a kind of a fascinating part of the entire story, is that um, you know, reading it and seeing everything still coming apart, um, all of these psychological shifts that you're going through, um, other crises happening kind of in the background as well, that the you never said a bad word about her in the book.
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:57.519
Like the relationship, you could tell the relationship was still really important to you, even if it was ending, um, and still being able to kind of hold on to that love even after it was over.
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:01.519
I think that was a very poignant part of the entire story.
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:02.559
Well, thank you.
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:03.119
Yeah.
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:16.800
And that one chapter, you know, um, where I started out talking about that morning of of you know, filing for divorce, and then I remember writing it, I was about 15 times in, I just went full stop.
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:41.039
And I was like, this is my shift on looking back on the marriage, and so the rest of the chapter then gets into that, and you know, then going back to um, you know, when I was sitting on the beach with a dog signing the papers, um, and just having a run punch and just being like, you know what, I'm able to look back now because time has passed and not have anger about it, yeah.
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:47.360
And not be, you know, I can't judge anything about what she has done or anything like that.
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:47.760
Yeah.
00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:51.199
But owning my side of it and just being like, you know what?
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:59.760
You weren't the perfect husband, you know, and you weren't the perfect guy, but you could live the rest of your life now knowing.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.000
What you've maybe screwed up and making it right every day.
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:06.639
And um, and that's been really helpful.
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:08.880
And I think it's helped our relationship a lot.
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:09.360
Yeah.
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:19.920
And um, you know, and and others too, you know, talking now to other people that have gone through divorces and they look back on some and just gonna be like, Oh my god, I didn't realize I was doing this.
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:27.199
Yeah, you know, and then the other side sometimes comes back to them and says, Oh my god, I didn't realize that I was being like that to you.
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:31.280
And so it spurred some controversy and and like in the book clubs too, you know.
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:36.559
Now one of the questions that keeps coming back is, How much of your own life do you take ownership of?
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:41.840
And do you try to push that on other people or do you let them do their thing?
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:58.800
And there's one couple that had separated, divorced, got back together, divorced again, and then finally, like I think it was over the span of like 10 years they were doing this, and then they both took a break for like a year and a half, yeah, and then they went, Oh my god, I actually do love you very much.
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.559
I just had to like get away from you for a while because you were driving me nuts.
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:09.840
And um, so that's those are the kind of stories that I've been running into around the country, yeah, and they're really cool to hear.
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:10.320
Yeah.
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.960
Do you think you would have been able to process it in that way without the psychological death?
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:21.599
No, no, I for me, it would have been a completely different story, it would have been a different shift, yeah.
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:25.920
And um, so and I don't think this book would have been written without that, yeah.
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:49.039
And because being able to go back in in time and relive those moments over and over and have you know, it's funny when when I first ran into Annie after the mind event, I didn't know what it was gonna look like, and you know, because we were like this, you know, and yeah, and I ran into her, and all around her were just images and videos of her smiling, and that's what the compression did.
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:50.320
So it pulled out everything.
00:45:50.639 --> 00:46:08.000
So you you really you physically see that like I physically see it around the oh my gosh, still play out, yeah, yeah, and they still play out like mini movies, and so when I get caught in those moments, and I've met other guys who have this too, and girls, it happens to certain people that go through this.
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:13.280
You have to kind of like reset and pop all those images out of your mind, and then you're able to process again.
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:20.800
But then those first few months, where you know, everything that you're thinking about, you just get flooded with emotions and all the little videos.
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:24.079
But so when I ran into Annie, she was like, Why are you smiling?
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:33.679
I'm like, Well, I can't really explain it because you'll think I'm nuts, because you'll think I'm nuts, but it's kind of like having a life review, but of only the positive things.
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:40.239
And so when I look at the kids, you know, if and it's more under control now, it's it was out of control for a while, yeah.
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:52.079
But now, you know, if I'm out walking, I run by, I walk by one street, you know, this happened to me this morning where my father gotten hit by a car years ago after open heart surgery in his first walk.
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:54.800
He gets hit by a car by a kid on the way to school.
00:46:54.960 --> 00:47:01.280
And so as I walked by there this morning, I started laughing because, and that's the other part of this, you know, having humor in all of it.
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:07.039
Yeah, and I just started laughing because I I remember him like just sitting there just going, how the hell did this happen to me that morning?
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.000
As we're loading them into the angels after I had the open heart.
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:20.079
I mean, so just being able to look at those moments and laugh about them, yeah, and carry the burden of of missing things or anything else like that.
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:21.280
I think makes a huge difference.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:36.960
And that's one of the reasons why um, you know, when people reference the comedy in the book, because the the title itself is a little ominous to some degree, and um, people are all surprised by the amount of humor that I use because I was like, look, that's life, you know, you got to be able to do that.
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:38.159
So it's interesting.
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:46.000
The way that you wrote is how I imagined you would just be telling the story, like how you would speak, because it was very conversational.
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:53.280
Um, the way that I read it, it just felt like I was sitting down listening to you telling stories, but you know, reading it instead.
00:47:53.440 --> 00:48:03.440
Um the language used, the way that it um was written, it was it was interesting, it was unlike anything I had read before.
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:04.239
Thank you.
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:05.119
I appreciate that.
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:10.800
Yeah, it um it's uh there was one review that uh read that was very funny.
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:19.679
He said, This book totally put took me by surprise because I felt like I was sitting on the back porch with a really good friend of mine that I hadn't seen in years that just had the shittiest year of his life.
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:20.800
Yeah, 100%.
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:22.800
It felt like we had a good life.
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:33.920
Yeah, yeah, it was humorous um and conversational, and it just sounded like yeah, sitting sitting out back listening to you tell stories.
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:35.039
It did.
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:35.920
That's pretty funny.
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:36.880
That's pretty funny.
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.000
It's funny though, and you bring up bringing up a good point.
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:46.000
Um, I was talking with a publisher a couple of weeks ago, a traditional, and being an indie author, you know, it's a little bit different.
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:50.400
And so he asked me why we didn't why why I didn't submit to them.
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:55.599
And I just said, in all honesty, like I was a reader for the studios years ago.
00:48:55.760 --> 00:49:02.400
Yeah, and they're always looking a 23-year-old is looking for the next book that looks just like your the last book that y'all liked.
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:02.880
Yeah.
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:10.320
And I said, I knew my writing style for this book was going to be very different because it had to be aggressive, it had to be conversational, and it had to be deliberate.
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:10.719
Yeah.
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:15.039
And I wanted people to feel anger, I wanted people to feel love.
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:19.199
I wanted people to feel all those different emotions that go on there.
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:26.559
And there was a guy, a writer for the Hollywood Reporter years ago named Bob Osborne, who I knew well, and he was a great guy.
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.840
And every year he would put together his favorite film clips.
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:36.800
And in those film clips, he would take you on this emotional journey that was just up and down, up and down, up and down.
00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:42.400
And half the audience would be crying, half the audience would be laughing because everybody has emotional delays, right?
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:46.159
So the person is reacting to what's on screen and they're laughing hysterically.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:52.159
And so I wanted to do that with a book because I found I wanted to make it interesting.
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:52.639
Yeah.
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:56.719
You know, I see so many things where I'm just not interested and I try.
00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:59.599
Um, and not to take anything away from brilliant writers.
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:02.159
I mean, trust me, I'm friends with some beautiful writers.
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:02.559
Yeah.
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:05.599
But for this story, it it had to be a little bit different.
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:07.599
And uh, it had to be you.
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:17.280
And I so I can't, I was I was reading and I just kept remembering, like, there are some times like you cannot say what you need to say without a good F bomb.
00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:19.119
And I you know what I mean?
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:20.000
Like, I was reading that.
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:26.400
I was like, this is exact, this is this is exactly how it would be if we were sitting out back and you were telling me this story.
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:28.960
There would they would require F bombs.
00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:30.400
That is true.
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:31.360
That is true.
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:41.679
Then the F language that was developed, if you remember the F language uh passage, um, where just every word was the F bomb for an entire paragraph or two.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:46.159
Um, it got so insane at one point in time that that's the only way that you could actually like do anything.
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:52.480
And yeah, that run came from old acting classes that I had to take to get an art credit out of the way.
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:58.719
Yeah, and um where you would have to take one word and generate all the emotions just with that one word.
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:01.679
And the F bomb became emotions, yeah.
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:12.000
And so the F bomb became my way, our way, of Nance's in my way, yeah, of talking to each other when we just experienced some crazy emotional roller coaster of what the insanity was.
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:25.360
Yeah, and um, so yeah, no, listen, I I really appreciate you bringing that up because um even the elderly audience has like said certain things like the language has been a little aggressive for me, but I totally get it.
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:29.679
Like I understood why you used it, and I would probably say the same exact word.
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:45.840
It was necessary because again, if you read it, this is within the span of a whole year, the amount of just craziness that happened in the the sheer length of time of a year required some up ball.
00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:47.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:49.360
It's funny that it just did.
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:54.480
No, it's totally true, and and uh and sometimes they slip and I have to kind of watch it.
00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:57.679
And uh sometimes I haven't I don't really have a filter anymore.
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:05.920
Um, and uh so sometimes I definitely have to watch, and I apologize in advance to people who might look one might slip out, and I'm sorry.
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:09.920
And um, but it's been it's been really funny to get people's reactions to that.
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:11.760
Well, it's it's hysterical.
00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:20.960
We you know, you wouldn't look at me and think I appreciate a good F bomb, but I live in a coaching family, and it's just how you get just how you get your your point across.
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:29.440
Well, all right, I'll share with you this, which nobody really knows is the original title to the book was one F bomb year.
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:29.760
Yep.
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:31.360
And that was it.
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:33.119
And so that was a working title.
00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:36.400
And I was talking to a priest, he's like, I know the story.
00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:40.000
He's like, we would carry the book even with that title.
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:45.039
So I thought, okay, I don't know.
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:54.960
Yeah, it was it was I I have to give it up to my sister Nancy because when we were going through a bunch of different titles, um, she said, What was the biggest moment for you of the year?
00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.239
And I said, It was from blue, and she said, So you pivoted from blue.
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:01.199
I said, Yes.
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:04.719
And she said, Well, let's make it action, pivoting from blue.
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:10.639
And um, but it's funny, some of the comments I get back on the title is does that mean you're moving from one party to the other?
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:12.719
It's like, oh god, I never even put that.
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:14.880
I was like, I never even put that together.
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:19.199
No, like, why do we have to have this political context before?
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:20.880
Oh, that's funny.
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.360
That did not cross my mind to be honest.
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:24.400
Oh, thank you.
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:27.119
Yeah, because that one, that one I was like, uh, okay.
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:27.679
Um no.
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:29.360
Like, oh snap, did I miss?
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:30.239
Did I miss something?
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:31.920
I totally missed something.
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:38.079
I don't know what it was, but so it's been it's been pretty funny, but uh the F bomb definitely played into the year.
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:39.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:40.400
Well, it was necessary.
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:42.239
I will, I I condone it.
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:43.440
Well, thank you.
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:44.960
I mean that does mean a lot right there.
00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:48.000
Yeah, exactly.
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:51.519
So let me okay, one one final question.
00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:53.280
Well, maybe not, but we'll see.
00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:53.760
Sure.
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:57.599
What was the most difficult part of the book to write?
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.159
Because I know you you wrote it very quickly.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:07.280
Um but what what part was just like, oh, this is really hard?
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:10.320
Um, my father's death.
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:11.280
That one.
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:16.800
Um, I remember I wrote it, and uh my two cousins were here, as you read about in the book.
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:22.400
Yeah, and um, and my tooth had broken, so that made it even more painful.
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:32.559
And uh so when we designed the language of not using S's, because when I said an S, it would cut my tongue, and uh I didn't really have time because of all the chaos to go to the dentist.
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:44.480
And um, anyways, I wrote it that night and I walked downstairs, like I have no problem saying it, bawling, but you know, I wasn't like bawling, but they like looked at me and said, Oh my god, what just happened?
00:54:44.559 --> 00:55:02.239
I'm like, dude, well, I just wrote about his death, and I said, But I knocked it out, and um, you know, it's funny because with the kids too, um, and having a full-time job, you know, so I would write every night, and the kids would just sit there and be like, Hey, dad, go write your ass off tonight.
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:03.599
We got the dishes and stuff like that.
00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:04.960
And I'd be like, Oh, all right.
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:32.960
So going back to your question, definitely that handshake and getting the invitation back to the courts of heaven and understanding what that really was, that invitation to go back and not ask for anything of God, but to tell him that I understood why he let things play out the way that you had to, and um being able to look at what happened in that chapter in the next chapter, um, and understand that they all had to take place.
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:43.119
But a lot of people, and it was interesting, somebody said something to me a couple weeks ago that they said they disagreed with the one line, which was simply all things happen for a reason.
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.159
And we kept going, and I said, Well, finish the book and then come back.
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:51.840
And so we talked again, and she said, I get it now.
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:57.360
You only are able to say that if you can look back and take something from it, yeah.
00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:06.159
And if you just pass it off as that happened in life or that happened, versus what did I actually get out of that moment that I just overlooked forever?
00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:19.760
And I go back to the cashier who looked back at his father's funeral definitely than he ever would have, and because it was something that he probably just put a blanket over and left in the corner of the room, and the corner of the room being your mind.
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:24.960
Yeah, and instead looking back and being like, okay, what did I really go through then?
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:33.519
And not just live life day by day, but look back at it and answer those questions about what did I miss?
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:46.239
You know, and that chapter, and going back to even earlier in this conversation, um being able to know that you lived a full life with somebody means that you can let them go without the regrets.
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:46.960
Right.
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:53.360
You know, and um, and I think about that with the kids, with you know, with Annie, with with everybody.
00:56:53.599 --> 00:57:00.639
And uh when I was able to say goodbye to my father and then write about it, um, Nancy and I can both say the same thing.
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.000
Look, we were happy when we got the call that he finally passed.
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:04.559
Yeah.
00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:07.440
Um, because it was like he'd been wanting to for years.
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:09.119
And I'll I'll share with you this, Rainy.
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:17.199
The passage that was being read to him that night, I didn't write about this, um, by the hospice nurse who were wonderful.
00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:30.559
Um, my father gotten sick 15 years earlier, and so over the course of time in his Bible, he had been highlighting certain passages, and it was 15 years ago that Nancy and I really started taking care of him.
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:46.559
Um, and anyways, the passage that was read to him that night was simply that there was one where I'm not gonna cite the exact one because I'll get it wrong, but it was that God told a guy that he was gonna die, and the guy said to him, Well, I've lived a good life of service.
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:48.159
Can I have some more time?
00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:51.199
And God said, You have 15 years and then you will die.
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:52.800
Get your house in order.
00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:56.559
He died about two months before that time frame of 15 years.
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:56.880
Wow.
00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:58.719
So 14 years and such.
00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:05.199
And so knowing that that was the final thing that he heard, um, I mean, we were able to let him go in a great way.
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:10.559
And uh I feel blessed for that, and I'm sorry for those people that don't get to feel that.
00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:30.400
Right, you know, and um I think it's the what we can all like just hope for really is to have to have that ending that you know there's no unfinished business and that you know we can be celebrated for our life and not I mean mourned, but but also celebrated, you know.
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:31.360
Yeah, absolutely.
00:58:31.519 --> 00:58:33.599
I think you know, if you've lived a good one, yeah.
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:41.360
And you know, and I think that's part of the the lesson and all this for for me, um living a good life that I'm proud of.
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:44.960
Um, and that's where finishing the book was absolutely essential.
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:51.760
Um, I wanted not just for Annie, but for the kids to see that it you have to sacrifice sometimes to get where you want to go.
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:52.320
Yeah.
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:56.800
And not sacrifice other people, but sacrifice of your stuff.
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.159
If you want to get something done, are you sitting out at a bar all night?
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:00.480
Right.
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:02.400
Are you going out for fancy dinners every night?
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:12.239
Do you do this or do that, versus saying the next six months, I'm just gonna do this, you know, never giving up your social aspects because that's important to keep learning from other people, right?
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:18.639
But sometimes being able to achieve little things, you know, I I know that I wanted to like get in better shape, so I started walking.
00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:21.679
Yeah, it wasn't gonna help itself, I couldn't take a pill for it.
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:22.159
Right.
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:31.760
Um, and so it was just about being able to keep the mind focused on that and just little little things make the difference every day and being able to do that.
00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:32.320
Yeah.
00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:42.159
So something you said about, you know, the person who didn't agree with you and they said that, you know, everything happens for a reason.
00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:49.679
You there was a line in the book, and I I wish I had written it down, but it was talking about you know, being on the boat with Michael.
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:56.719
And did this did this happen to teach you a lesson, to teach him a lesson, or both of you?
00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:58.880
So can you look at it in that manner too?
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:03.679
Like sometimes things happen to you so that someone else can learn something.
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:04.400
Absolutely.
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:05.760
Um I think so.
01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:08.880
Um, we've talked about it, Michael and I have.
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:31.280
Um both of our lives changed after that, you know, really, and we chose not to talk about it until the book was about to come out because we really didn't want people to know the extreme that it was, and um, out of respect for our families, sure, and just you know, processing because processing the whole trip was a lot, and we continue to talk.
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:33.360
We were supposed to go fly fishing pretty soon.
01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:42.400
Um, and so you know, we do all these things together, but I don't think either one of us would have been able to say I could have done this on my own, right?
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:46.320
Unless I took from you what you brought to that conversation that day.
01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:46.719
Yeah.
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:53.679
That conversation being sitting there without talking to each other, you know, um, because you couldn't say a word, you just couldn't hear.
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:58.400
Yeah, and you get beat up so bad that it wouldn't have made a difference.
01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:06.960
But knowing that the other person is depending on you and you're dependent on them, but both of you are playing a specific role in that conversation, yeah, makes all the difference.
01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:17.039
And so to to your question there and and your statement, which is you may live your life, but people may take something from it and learn from it at the same time, that's a really important thing.
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:28.159
And not everybody will, sure, but if you are able to just do what you do and it's solid, and you're not trying to hide things along the way, then it makes a big difference.
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:36.159
And you know, I know we had a brief conversation about, but someone might get the question often what's it like having your life out in public?
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:42.079
You know, and I'm like, it's it's very freeing because I don't have any secrets, you know.
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:49.599
Um, and it forces me to just live a good life and be kind to people and be genuine with people.
01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:51.519
And there's no no hidden agenda.
01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:54.559
I don't sit there and think, oh god, how's this conversation gonna affect me?
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:56.320
You know, rolling forward.
01:01:56.880 --> 01:02:00.639
And you're able to talk to people in a whole different way.
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:08.719
Biggest thrill, I can't say it's the biggest thrill, but a great thrill is the guys who take care of our garbage every two days a week, right?
01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:12.960
They got to know a little bit about the book just from you know being out there and chatting with them.
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:14.480
I take them gatores and stuff.
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:18.239
The guy let me use the crank to lift my trash can into the back.
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.360
It was like one of those moments he looked at me the highlight of your week.
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:24.639
No, he looked at me and he was like, You really want to do this, don't you?
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:25.440
I said, I do.
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:31.199
I'm like, I watch you guys for years come by, and I'm always fascinated about do you have to double crank it to like get the extra garbage out?
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:32.480
He's like, go for it.
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:33.599
And he let me.
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:41.199
And it's and I only mention that because it's so small little moments that you know, like yeah, if you want to be a kid for a second, be a kid.
01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:48.719
Yeah, you know, and because you're not gonna, I'm never gonna get to crank a trash can thing on the back of the dump truck again.
01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:51.920
It's all about just connecting with people, right?
01:02:52.000 --> 01:03:02.800
And building kind of a trust and a rapport, and you know, just kind of that human-to-human connection that we all kind of miss these days.
01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:04.159
I agree with you 100%.
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:09.119
You know, you just walk, you walk by so many people, it could be the cashier of 7-Eleven.
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:10.719
You know, I've gotten to know them real well.
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:13.760
Yeah, just because we crack it, we crack jokes with each other.
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:15.920
And why not?
01:03:18.400 --> 01:03:28.639
You know, that's the other part of like going back to you know parts of the book that you know, the insanity that was, um, uh whether it be extremely painful or something else like that.
01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:36.159
But I've often you know talked with guys that have been in really bad situations and they'll crack a joke.
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:45.679
And I remember watching war movies when I was a kid, and in the throes of it all, they would crack a joke and be like, you know what, screw, why not?
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:56.400
And so Nancy and I got in that habit years ago that when shit got sorry, when stuff got real bad with my with our parents' health, it was like, look, let's go find some freaking chicken salad in the hospital, you know.
01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:59.119
At least like I hear this place has great chicken salad.
01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:00.960
Let's lighten the mood a bit.
01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:07.760
Exactly, because otherwise you can sit there and wallow in your own stuff over and over, yeah, or can just look at it and be like, you know what?
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.599
That was ridiculous.
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:12.480
Like, oh my god, I can't believe I actually did that.
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:20.239
And um, and that's the other aspect of the writing that it was so cathartic is accepting those things, you know.
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:27.360
Yeah, and some people say, Well, did you actually like count the number of times that you got out of the shower and had to look at your body in the mirror that you didn't want to see?
01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:28.000
Yeah.
01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:31.039
And I'm like, no, I did that, I totally did that.
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:36.480
And I realized over time that I didn't want to be that person that I had to get out of the shower and see anymore.
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:36.960
Yeah.
01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:40.000
And um, and so I had to change it.
01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:48.719
And so sometimes looking back and just taking those little stats, those little moments, and be like, all right, how do I how do I manifest change in in my life?
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:54.320
And if I do it for me, maybe somebody gets some hope out of that, and maybe it helps them too.
01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:54.960
Yeah.
01:04:55.119 --> 01:04:55.519
Yeah.
01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:57.199
That's beautiful.
01:04:57.519 --> 01:05:02.960
So, of all of the lessons that you learned in that year, we'll end on this.
01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:07.599
What is the biggest takeaway and how has it changed your life today?
01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:09.599
What is your life like today?
01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:11.360
Oh, that's a good question.
01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:14.639
Um, and one I have not been asked before, by the way.
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:20.559
Um hope takes time.
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:23.519
Hope just doesn't pop up out of nowhere.
01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:25.280
Hope needs to be built.
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:30.880
And once you do have that hope, there's a lot of realities in it.
01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:39.119
But hope can drive you to do the unimaginable and really change your life.
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:45.199
And but you have to have it, and you just gotta keep telling yourself, all right, how am I gonna get through this?
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:50.239
And that goes back to, and I'll round up the conversation, that goes back to the song Fine Line.
01:05:50.559 --> 01:06:03.039
If I didn't have that, and during those really rough months where I was struggling uh with divorce and everything else like that, and trying to accept it, if I didn't have Fine Line and Mercy me, you know, going all through everything.
01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:09.760
Um I wouldn't have gotten through those walks and come out with a positive aspect of it, you know.
01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:13.440
And that was even before the compression my mind events took place.
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:26.800
So once those built in and that hope was there, I think that's what brought my mind back, you know, to go back to the earlier in the conversation, somehow or another my mind subconscious knew that there was hope.
01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:27.119
Yeah.
01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:29.039
And it was through the kids and through Annie.
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:32.159
And that's why those images were not there when I was down there.
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.639
And those songs helped me get through it.
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:44.079
And then I would use songs to fire me up, you know, and and I would change up those songs, you know, and and you know, Mumford and Sons again.
01:06:44.239 --> 01:06:50.079
I mean, there are so many different songs on the playlist that um still bring up emotions.
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:59.039
And and before we started, you know, some of these book events, you know, we purposely I played them over and over out in public, so I didn't wasn't attached to them as much.
01:06:59.199 --> 01:06:59.599
Yeah.
01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:06.480
Um, but both sides now, for instance, you know, still gets me because that's what was playing the night my dad passed.
01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:06.719
Yeah.
01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:16.400
And you know, there was so much that happened in that one night between saying goodbye to your father than you know, forgiving yourself and forgiving your you're about to be ex-wife.
01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:20.559
Like just all those moments came to be by one song.
01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:40.800
You know, and when you listen to that particular song, which I know you have, yeah, and if you go back and listen to the original version of it, that song stands out for me as probably one of the strongest in terms of changing and and also hope because when she first sang that song, Joni Mitchell, you know, 50 years ago, it sounded like today's pop songs, right?
01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:42.320
I mean, it's a good, good song.
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:42.639
Yeah.
01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:54.559
But then when you hear her sing it 50 years later, of a woman who has lived life, that to me kind of summed up a lot of the book in terms of before and after, yeah, the mind of before and after the year.
01:07:54.880 --> 01:08:09.519
Now being able to look back on the year and my life at this stage, and just being like, I need to really look and understand that if I sang that song myself, I would sing it totally differently after that amount of time.
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:10.000
Yeah.
01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:19.760
And that's kind of like one aspect of the music that that has played into all of this, which is if you go back, how many artists do you know that go back and sing a song differently?
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:22.800
You know, 30 years later, they'll be on tour for 40 years, right?
01:08:22.880 --> 01:08:27.119
Yeah, but really the ones that know the song.
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:31.199
And back when songs had a lot of lyrics, and that's the other thing too.
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:33.600
All these songs have a storyline in them.
01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:34.079
Yeah.
01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:45.039
You know, and and I go back to that that one chapter where I talked about China Forbes, and when you listen to her songs, they all have stories, which are not always popular in today's world.
01:08:45.520 --> 01:09:08.960
And so that's why I've always loved the different um artists that are in there because each of their stories played a different role for me in writing the book, but also each brought a bit of hope that I could get through this or I could get through that, you know, and different times there'd be different emotions, and I'd need one particular song, and I would play it for that hour, and I would play it over and over.
01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:15.119
And um, I didn't include Empire State in there, but I know the reference for Empire State, yeah.
01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:31.840
Um, because Empire State didn't play into the year, but that's when that first hit, you know, those two and a half hours that I spent in the car just listening to that one song, so I could just like not think, but it had such an upbeat tone to it that when I got down there, I was like, okay, I just did that, yeah.
01:09:32.079 --> 01:09:55.279
And um, so anyways, I'll cap with hope and time and just that it is possible if you have the vision for it, and you have to create the vision, and it doesn't come through watching endless scrolling every night, it doesn't come through watching a TV show that's going to bum you out right and leave you empty, it doesn't come through any of that stuff.
01:09:55.520 --> 01:09:58.239
Um, it comes through your own mind, right?
01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:03.760
And it's easy to run away from life, and sometimes it's more difficult to live it.
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:10.640
But I think the reward is when you build hope into learning how to live life, life becomes incredible.
01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:13.680
So for what that's worth.
01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:15.039
Yep, wow.
01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:22.000
Um, thank you so much for this conversation and for writing the book.
01:10:22.159 --> 01:10:30.239
Um, like I said, I when I opened it and I saw that playlist and how you started it, it inspired me to start writing.
01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:34.880
I've always wanted to write my story, but it's it's hard.
01:10:35.039 --> 01:10:40.800
It is so hard reliving some things in your life um and and telling those stories.
01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:45.439
But hopefully, if I get the guts to do it, I'll call you and say, Hey.
01:10:45.840 --> 01:11:01.680
But I will I will say this that uh it's funny because I, you know, I have a lot of friends who have who have read it and people that haven't been in in their lives in a lot of years, and I'll talk to them and they'll send me a note and be like, I really want to write a review, I don't know where to start.
01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:02.399
Yeah.
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:05.680
You know, like it, and each of them has the same story.
01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:10.399
It took me back through my life that I had to look at back over and over.
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:19.680
And it was guys, girls, like, I want to write one, I don't know where to start with my own life and comparing it to your book, you know.
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:21.119
And I'm like, then don't.
01:11:21.279 --> 01:11:22.880
Yeah, you know, it's okay.
01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:24.560
I don't, it's okay.
01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:30.399
Just process what you need to take from it and um and then share it with other people, tell people about it.
01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:40.000
Yeah, and um it was I I thought that was an interesting note on that when you when you were saying about you know wanting to like write and not knowing exactly how to get there, but oh, I know how to get there.
01:11:40.079 --> 01:11:42.239
I just it's hard to relive it.
01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:44.560
That's the that's the difficult part.
01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:58.079
I guess, you know, for me on a personal level, just reliving some things um and putting it into words is just you know how how a how angry am I gonna allow myself to get?
01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:02.560
Like, or do I need to write it in a more beautiful, simple way?
01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:03.600
Right.
01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:07.039
I'm sure it would be wonderful no matter how you oh goodness.
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:08.079
I don't know.
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:13.680
But okay, so where can everybody find you, find the book, um, and all of that information?
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:14.399
Yeah, sure.
01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:17.359
Uh you can order it through a local bookstore if they don't have it already.
01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:20.239
I know a number of uh bookstores are just starting to pick it up.
01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:23.680
Um, we are online at Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:29.039
Um, you know, you can get it through some of the book clubs, um, pretty much anywhere.
01:12:29.359 --> 01:12:35.359
Um, as far as social media, you know, it's skip vangardner at at um at Instagram.
01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:35.840
Okay.
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.640
Um, same thing on Facebook, it's just Skip Van Gardner.
01:12:39.199 --> 01:12:39.760
All right, I will put it in the video.
01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:42.159
Here's an interesting one if I might if I might say this for anything.
01:12:42.319 --> 01:12:44.880
Yeah, I did not realize this.
01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:53.039
Google has broken down the book in so many different ways that I started putting on the tail end of videos that play on Instagram.
01:12:53.279 --> 01:13:00.880
You can go through them all and and you can see kind of like the evolution of of the process of the book now on Instagram by going back to some of the earlier ones.
01:13:01.119 --> 01:13:07.039
But um a buddy of mine typed in just a simple question, Google.
01:13:07.199 --> 01:13:13.520
Yeah, about what makes pivoting from blue so interesting, and they break it down.
01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:15.359
I mean, I was like, what?
01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:21.119
And um, so we just put at the end of the videos, ask Google about the book.
01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:22.239
Interesting.
01:13:22.399 --> 01:13:23.439
Okay, it is.
01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:26.079
I mean, AI is getting too good.
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:32.800
It has blown me away because you know, like I said, being an indie author and not coming out with a big, huge launch campaign and stuff like that.
01:13:33.039 --> 01:13:39.600
I don't know how it's happening, but yeah, it's um it's been interesting to like see what it's come up with.
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:40.880
That's amazing.
01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:41.840
That is amazing.
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:47.840
Well, I will put all of this in the episode um show notes um so everybody can find you.
01:13:48.159 --> 01:13:48.560
Thank you.
01:13:48.800 --> 01:13:49.600
Thank you so much.
01:13:49.760 --> 01:14:03.680
I like I said, I appreciate conversations like these so much because again, you know, the podcast is called Life on Purpose and any conversations that we can have that lead people to lead lead intentional lives, I think um is important.
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:06.479
So I've I've thank you for doing a show like this too.
01:14:06.800 --> 01:14:22.640
Yeah, thank you very much for doing a show like this because I I think it's really important for people to, you know, the people that really do like to watch things that are a little bit different, but also very motivational, you know, and I know you've got your own story and and that's really cool.
01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:25.760
And um, so thank you for even creating a show like this.
01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:27.279
Of course, of course.
01:14:27.439 --> 01:14:29.439
Well, Skip, it has been a pleasure.
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:33.680
Um, and I will uh spread the news of this awesome book.
01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:34.960
That'd be great, Brandy.
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:35.439
Thank you again.
01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:36.640
All right, thank you.
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:37.359
Take care.
01:14:37.520 --> 01:14:38.079
Have a good one.
01:14:38.319 --> 01:14:38.960
You too.
01:14:39.279 --> 01:14:40.079
Thanks.