1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,480
I see.
2
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:01,280
I understand.
3
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:01,760
Okay.
4
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:02,719
That's helpful.
5
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:10,559
Speaking of legal tech, is it true that the
industry sector of law firms is sort of
6
00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:15,134
adopting generative AI and those tools faster
than sort of any other industry sector.
7
00:00:15,134 --> 00:00:19,695
Maybe you have such a lens into that particular
customer segment.
8
00:00:25,695 --> 00:00:29,730
Welcome to Impact TV, a corporate venture video
series through a partnership with Impact
9
00:00:29,730 --> 00:00:31,649
Venture Capital and the Kaufman Fellows.
10
00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:34,850
I'm Jack Crawford, a founding general partner
at Impact Venture Capital.
11
00:00:34,850 --> 00:00:39,490
And alongside my colleagues, Pat Bumpus from
Impact Venture Capital and my co chair from
12
00:00:39,490 --> 00:00:44,484
Kaufman, Alessandro Santo, we're excited to
welcome Tamara Stephens, Managing Director at
13
00:00:44,484 --> 00:00:45,445
Thomson Reuters Ventures.
14
00:00:45,445 --> 00:00:46,884
Hi Tamara, how are you doing today?
15
00:00:46,965 --> 00:00:48,405
Hey, good Jack, how are you?
16
00:00:48,405 --> 00:00:49,204
I'm doing great.
17
00:00:49,204 --> 00:00:52,164
So let's see, you're spending a little bit of
time in New York, obviously, where Thomson
18
00:00:52,164 --> 00:00:54,564
Reuters is Headquarter, but you live in Dallas,
is that right?
19
00:00:54,725 --> 00:00:55,765
I do live in Dallas.
20
00:00:55,765 --> 00:00:59,500
We're actually headquartered in Toronto, just
our fund is headquartered here in New York.
21
00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:00,140
Got it.
22
00:01:00,140 --> 00:01:00,699
Okay.
23
00:01:00,939 --> 00:01:04,140
So I've been paying attention to the Dallas
market because I happen to be a Sacramento
24
00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:08,859
Kings basketball fan, the Dallas Mavericks and
the Kings are fighting it out for the last spot
25
00:01:08,859 --> 00:01:10,540
in the NBA, playoff.
26
00:01:10,540 --> 00:01:14,144
You lost a major player to the Lakers or less.
27
00:01:14,144 --> 00:01:14,384
Don't know.
28
00:01:14,384 --> 00:01:16,305
Has there been any revolts in Dallas?
29
00:01:16,864 --> 00:01:17,504
A lot.
30
00:01:17,504 --> 00:01:20,704
I think, if you ask anybody, they would say,
what the heck happened?
31
00:01:20,704 --> 00:01:21,984
Who made that decision?
32
00:01:23,025 --> 00:01:27,340
You know, I grew up in Detroit, so, you know,
I'm still rooting for the Pistons at some
33
00:01:27,340 --> 00:01:32,540
point, but they, you know, hit or miss there in
that city, depending on the sport.
34
00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:36,540
They've gone from, they may go from worse to
first, because I think they had the absolute
35
00:01:36,540 --> 00:01:41,125
worst record in the NBA last year, and now in a
solid playoff spot.
36
00:01:41,125 --> 00:01:44,884
So I think your dedication may pay off.
37
00:01:45,284 --> 00:01:48,244
Yeah, well, it finally paid off on the Lions,
right?
38
00:01:48,244 --> 00:01:53,299
I think I wanted to throw a turkey leg at the
TV for twenty years in a row on Thanksgiving.
39
00:01:53,299 --> 00:01:56,420
But, you know, we've had a couple of good
seasons.
40
00:01:56,420 --> 00:01:58,899
So it pays to stay.
41
00:01:58,899 --> 00:02:00,659
Stay true to your team.
42
00:02:01,780 --> 00:02:03,140
Loyalty is paying off.
43
00:02:03,619 --> 00:02:08,419
So let's talk a little bit about your
professional career, to kick things off and
44
00:02:07,775 --> 00:02:09,455
allow you to introduce yourself a little bit.
45
00:02:09,455 --> 00:02:13,455
Some time at Sun Microsystems, Silicon
Graphics, and then obviously as it relates to
46
00:02:13,455 --> 00:02:18,814
corporate venture, some time at Microsoft's M12
and now at TR Ventures.
47
00:02:18,814 --> 00:02:23,580
Maybe you could just talk a little bit about
that journey and sort of what led you from one
48
00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:24,780
opportunity to the next.
49
00:02:25,180 --> 00:02:25,900
Yeah.
50
00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:27,259
Microsoft was pretty interesting.
51
00:02:27,259 --> 00:02:33,419
It was my sixth startup, and we actually ended
up selling it to Microsoft.
52
00:02:33,514 --> 00:02:39,034
So for those of you who use Outlook mobile on
your phone, the old app was actually called
53
00:02:39,034 --> 00:02:39,995
Accompli.
54
00:02:40,715 --> 00:02:43,034
It still looks and feels very similar.
55
00:02:43,034 --> 00:02:45,594
There haven't been many changes to it, so I
guess it was good.
56
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,000
And then that was at the end of twenty
fourteen.
57
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,800
And I did a lot of business development for
them, mostly on mobile because they were in
58
00:02:53,800 --> 00:03:02,455
transition of getting away from Windows mobile
and moving to Android and iOS for all of their
59
00:03:02,455 --> 00:03:03,175
apps.
60
00:03:03,974 --> 00:03:09,495
So we were the first mobile tech company that
they acquired, and so we spent a great deal of
61
00:03:09,495 --> 00:03:16,310
time working with Google and Apple and Samsung
and, you know, making sure that our apps ran
62
00:03:16,310 --> 00:03:19,349
well on all the devices out there.
63
00:03:20,469 --> 00:03:24,710
And that was really my background, was mobile
tech and a lot of email.
64
00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:26,709
That was my third email company.
65
00:03:28,175 --> 00:03:30,335
So yeah, I was excited to be at Microsoft.
66
00:03:30,335 --> 00:03:31,775
Did that for a few years.
67
00:03:31,935 --> 00:03:42,599
Originally, they started the fund, Microsoft
Ventures, they had asked several of us from the
68
00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:46,919
acquisition to take a look at how they could
structure the fund and what would be most
69
00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:47,560
beneficial.
70
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:53,879
So we did give input when they first set up the
fund to begin with, and then a few years later
71
00:03:53,879 --> 00:03:55,239
they asked me to take it over.
72
00:03:56,775 --> 00:04:03,014
And I stayed for three years, and then Thomson
Reuters said, hey, we'll give you a chance to
73
00:04:03,014 --> 00:04:06,694
start the fund from scratch, and I was like,
this would be fantastic.
74
00:04:06,694 --> 00:04:13,430
It's super thesis driven, so we happen to be
very focused on legal, tax, risk, and fraud.
75
00:04:15,590 --> 00:04:21,350
Obviously with AI applied to those categories,
it's a pretty fantastic spot to be right now.
76
00:04:22,355 --> 00:04:27,634
What would you say is a primary difference
outside of industry sector focus at M12 versus
77
00:04:27,634 --> 00:04:28,675
TR Ventures?
78
00:04:28,675 --> 00:04:31,795
Any other fundamental differences that you
would note?
79
00:04:31,955 --> 00:04:33,235
You know, not really.
80
00:04:33,235 --> 00:04:38,800
We were very independent at Microsoft, and
we're very independent here at Thomson Reuters.
81
00:04:39,199 --> 00:04:46,319
You know, we didn't need business unit approval
at Microsoft and we don't require it here.
82
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:54,235
I would say that because we're smaller, we have
a better opportunity for moving into a
83
00:04:54,235 --> 00:04:56,714
partnership pretty quickly, right?
84
00:04:56,714 --> 00:05:03,354
So as we look at companies, sometimes we can
even suggest a partnership, you know, before we
85
00:05:03,354 --> 00:05:05,910
invest, which is even better, right?
86
00:05:06,550 --> 00:05:07,670
But not required.
87
00:05:07,670 --> 00:05:12,389
A lot of times, you know, we have to get into
the deals as quickly as other financial VCs get
88
00:05:12,389 --> 00:05:18,149
in, and we move very fast, we'd rather take a
position at the table and then work the
89
00:05:18,149 --> 00:05:21,044
partnership that's what's required.
90
00:05:21,204 --> 00:05:25,524
And sometimes, you know, we're investing in
something that's pretty early stage, which is
91
00:05:25,524 --> 00:05:31,685
our most investments, right, is Series A, we do
a little bit of seed.
92
00:05:32,485 --> 00:05:37,810
Startups, you know, that are a million to
3,000,000 in revenue are still early, right?
93
00:05:37,810 --> 00:05:42,930
They can't take the full muscle of Thomson
Reuters, go to market.
94
00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:48,324
So we kind of have to pick and choose what's
going to work for them, and not take away from
95
00:05:48,324 --> 00:05:51,685
their natural growth, right?
96
00:05:51,764 --> 00:05:55,444
And bring them new deals, but not bury them,
right?
97
00:05:55,444 --> 00:05:58,324
So we try to be careful in how we partner.
98
00:05:59,539 --> 00:06:04,579
One of our portfolio companies, Pondero, was
focused on fraud, waste, and abuse in the
99
00:06:04,579 --> 00:06:06,180
government market.
100
00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:07,220
And they got some traction.
101
00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:10,899
Think they ended up getting between 10,000,000
and $20,000,000 of revenue and is ultimately
102
00:06:10,899 --> 00:06:12,180
acquired by Thomson Reuters.
103
00:06:12,615 --> 00:06:17,735
And I think the part of the driver was
expanding into the government segment and
104
00:06:17,735 --> 00:06:19,814
having more customers in the government
segment.
105
00:06:19,894 --> 00:06:26,694
I know you to focus mostly on law firms,
accounting firms, other things that relate to
106
00:06:26,694 --> 00:06:27,415
risk and compliance.
107
00:06:27,660 --> 00:06:30,699
Are you still looking at sort of active efforts
in the government channel?
108
00:06:30,699 --> 00:06:34,300
Can you talk a little bit about that market
segment and how important or not it is?
109
00:06:34,620 --> 00:06:37,899
Yeah, it's still a really important segment for
Thomson Reuters.
110
00:06:37,899 --> 00:06:40,300
We have a lot of focus around the government.
111
00:06:42,035 --> 00:06:47,714
But I would say from an investment perspective,
it's slightly narrower.
112
00:06:47,794 --> 00:06:51,235
Not that we don't look at that category at all
because we do.
113
00:06:51,555 --> 00:06:58,189
Just, you know, what our team needs in that
category is, as you said risk and fraud.
114
00:06:58,430 --> 00:07:05,229
It is a large category, don't get me wrong
obviously, but you know what we can do and what
115
00:07:05,229 --> 00:07:09,789
we can help is slightly narrower than some of
the other categories we look at from an
116
00:07:10,214 --> 00:07:10,694
perspective.
117
00:07:10,694 --> 00:07:12,774
But no, still super important to us.
118
00:07:14,375 --> 00:07:18,694
And we still look at, I mean, were looking at a
FedRAMP company the other day that's doing
119
00:07:18,694 --> 00:07:19,415
really well.
120
00:07:20,134 --> 00:07:21,495
So we still look at it.
121
00:07:21,495 --> 00:07:25,175
We haven't found anything that's really only
government.
122
00:07:25,540 --> 00:07:33,139
I would say some of the tech, even much of the
tech that we look at from a tax perspective or
123
00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:38,259
a legal perspective, often can fit into the
government sector as well.
124
00:07:39,185 --> 00:07:44,464
Some things actually fit all sectors of TR, and
that's even best for us from an investment
125
00:07:44,464 --> 00:07:44,944
perspective.
126
00:07:44,944 --> 00:07:48,944
If we can help the startup in all of our
categories, that's even better.
127
00:07:49,024 --> 00:07:51,824
Yeah, I could see that sort of cross industry
focus for sure.
128
00:07:51,824 --> 00:07:55,940
And as you think about investments versus
acquisitions, can you talk a little bit about
129
00:07:56,100 --> 00:08:03,139
how you guys evaluate sort of and maybe how TR
Ventures collaborates with the M and A team and
130
00:08:03,139 --> 00:08:08,455
sort of how you decide or how you think through
whether something's a significant venture
131
00:08:08,455 --> 00:08:12,134
investment opportunity versus an acquisition
opportunity?
132
00:08:12,615 --> 00:08:13,335
Yeah.
133
00:08:13,415 --> 00:08:15,495
So we are actually under the same umbrella.
134
00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:17,254
We're all under strategy, right?
135
00:08:17,254 --> 00:08:26,520
So the I would say the Ventures team is not
really here to build the pipeline for M and A,
136
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,079
but it is a natural occurrence, right?
137
00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:32,840
We've acquired one of the companies we've
invested in a couple of years ago called
138
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:33,480
Materia.
139
00:08:35,264 --> 00:08:41,345
If it's a company that fits our strategy and
where we're going long term, it's obviously
140
00:08:41,345 --> 00:08:44,625
something we would love to invest in, right?
141
00:08:45,745 --> 00:08:51,160
But it's definitely not we don't have a venture
fund to build an M and pipeline, right?
142
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,320
It would be a natural occurrence occasionally
to happen.
143
00:08:55,399 --> 00:09:02,120
I don't see us acquiring more than 10% to 15%
of our portfolio, so it's not a huge focus.
144
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:09,084
That said, we work pretty closely with M and A
as far as when they're looking at tech and want
145
00:09:09,084 --> 00:09:15,245
to, you know, acquire, we'll work with them
from a valuation perspective.
146
00:09:15,245 --> 00:09:16,365
What else is in the market?
147
00:09:16,365 --> 00:09:17,485
Who are the competitors?
148
00:09:17,485 --> 00:09:22,129
Are there smaller companies out there we should
be looking at in addition to what we're already
149
00:09:22,129 --> 00:09:22,929
looking at?
150
00:09:23,009 --> 00:09:30,769
So we'll get involved from a, you know,
strategy perspective, but you know it's a
151
00:09:30,769 --> 00:09:34,049
different focus for us on the M and A side.
152
00:09:33,995 --> 00:09:37,914
And I think publicly we've said we have
$10,000,000,000 on our balance sheet for
153
00:09:37,995 --> 00:09:42,315
investment in M and A, so we're both taking off
the balance sheet, right?
154
00:09:42,315 --> 00:09:48,909
Our venture fund takes off the balance sheet,
as does our M and A team, so similar process,
155
00:09:48,909 --> 00:09:51,470
but they're writing bigger checks.
156
00:09:51,789 --> 00:09:53,070
Yeah, exactly.
157
00:09:53,230 --> 00:09:55,309
Okay, so that's the exit side of things.
158
00:09:55,309 --> 00:10:00,589
Let's go back and talk about sort of the stage
of TR Ventures sort of focus.
159
00:10:00,589 --> 00:10:04,565
I moderated a panel on behalf of the NVCA.
160
00:10:04,725 --> 00:10:08,245
This is as we were starting Impact Venture
Capital in 2016.
161
00:10:08,325 --> 00:10:12,725
And it was a roomful of corporate venture
groups who had historically participated in
162
00:10:12,725 --> 00:10:14,725
Series C and Series D rounds of financing.
163
00:10:15,029 --> 00:10:19,350
And the buzz and the discussion was, hey, we're
all going to start going earlier stage and
164
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:23,190
looking at series B and series A and even
making some seed investments and even
165
00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:25,830
occasionally taking board seats.
166
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:32,215
And so it was a movement back then that I've
seen now play out over the last six, eight, ten
167
00:10:32,215 --> 00:10:33,014
years now.
168
00:10:34,855 --> 00:10:39,894
I'm wondering how do you think about sort of
stage and your role there?
169
00:10:39,894 --> 00:10:41,654
Is it seed in series A?
170
00:10:41,654 --> 00:10:45,174
Where are you focused at when typically get
involved with these companies?
171
00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:48,079
Yeah, I would say 80% is Series A.
172
00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:55,360
We'll occasionally do a B, if we can stretch
and get into that round and it makes sense for
173
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,799
us, and we'll occasionally do a C if it's a
really good fit.
174
00:10:59,144 --> 00:11:03,945
We usually do seed post revenue, which means
they have, you know, some revenue product
175
00:11:03,945 --> 00:11:11,945
market fit, and it, we can, get, you know, into
the deal and be able to help them, right?
176
00:11:11,945 --> 00:11:13,545
Again, we don't like to bury companies.
177
00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:19,360
And we're also fine getting into a seed and
helping them more with product or engineering,
178
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:19,600
right?
179
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,159
And areas that we can help them that aren't
going to, you know, take up their time on go to
180
00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:27,279
market quite yet because they may not be quite
ready for that.
181
00:11:27,279 --> 00:11:30,215
But I would say majority of what we're doing is
Series A.
182
00:11:30,855 --> 00:11:37,575
We're trying to look at horizon three, which is
why we will look at seed and mostly Series A
183
00:11:37,575 --> 00:11:42,215
because, you know, our product teams and our
engineering teams are focused on the here and
184
00:11:42,215 --> 00:11:44,455
now and in a pretty solid roadmap.
185
00:11:44,879 --> 00:11:50,720
And so for me, that's, you know, the old
McKinsey horizon one, two, three, you know,
186
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,519
they're really looking at horizon one and two,
right?
187
00:11:53,519 --> 00:11:54,399
Excuse me.
188
00:11:54,399 --> 00:11:56,240
Yeah, one and two, sorry.
189
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,920
We're looking at three, right?
190
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,320
We're out there trying to say, what is next?
191
00:12:00,284 --> 00:12:06,044
Next, What is a bet we can take to make sure
that we're looking at next gen tech and where
192
00:12:06,044 --> 00:12:10,764
the market is going, so our customers can take
advantage of that as well.
193
00:12:10,764 --> 00:12:16,539
So we're trying to be the eyes and ears for TR,
but we're also trying to bring that signal into
194
00:12:16,539 --> 00:12:18,059
our customer base as well.
195
00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:20,059
Makes great sense.
196
00:12:20,059 --> 00:12:24,059
I mean, maybe you could expand a little bit
more on the value beyond capital, because what
197
00:12:24,059 --> 00:12:30,785
I've seen from Tiara Ventures is market
insight, obviously, initial early stage
198
00:12:30,785 --> 00:12:31,665
capital.
199
00:12:32,384 --> 00:12:34,705
You can help with co development projects.
200
00:12:34,945 --> 00:12:40,589
You can certainly provide efficient access to
customers, particularly in the legal and
201
00:12:40,589 --> 00:12:42,589
accounting and compliance areas.
202
00:12:42,589 --> 00:12:46,029
Those are some of the ways that I've seen you
add value beyond capital.
203
00:12:46,029 --> 00:12:48,269
Did I get them all, or are there other things
that you focus on?
204
00:12:48,269 --> 00:12:49,870
I think you did hit them all.
205
00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:51,870
We can also be a customer, I would say.
206
00:12:52,455 --> 00:12:58,055
So in some cases, like we have two of our
portfolio companies, one out of London called
207
00:12:58,055 --> 00:13:02,295
Detectd, which does know your business, KYB.
208
00:13:02,535 --> 00:13:06,615
A lot of people know KYC, that's more of a know
your customer, right?
209
00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:12,940
So these are for business customers to be able
to check who they are to verify them.
210
00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:17,580
We actually need it for ourselves, like we sell
to corporates all over, right?
211
00:13:17,580 --> 00:13:22,654
And we want to be able to verify those law
firms, those corporations, those mid to small
212
00:13:22,654 --> 00:13:27,934
businesses that we're selling either our tax
products to, our legal products to, or, you
213
00:13:27,934 --> 00:13:29,774
know, risk and fraud, right?
214
00:13:29,774 --> 00:13:39,160
So they're fantastic company, they have a great
KYB AI solution, we can certainly introduce
215
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,120
that solution to our customers, and we have,
but we also use it internally to check our own
216
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,320
customer base, right?
217
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:51,375
So it's a good example of us, you know, trying
to find them customers through partnerships,
218
00:13:51,375 --> 00:13:55,934
but also using the product and being a
reference for other corporates on how to use a
219
00:13:55,934 --> 00:13:57,134
KYB solution.
220
00:13:57,855 --> 00:13:59,294
So that's the only one you missed.
221
00:13:59,294 --> 00:14:00,975
We can be a customer in many cases.
222
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:02,279
Very helpful.
223
00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:03,320
Yeah, that's very helpful.
224
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,679
So, okay, let's you were showcased in a global
corporate venturing article, and I think quoted
225
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,200
as saying, you know, corporate venture funds
should try and sort of run themselves like a
226
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,960
traditional VC.
227
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:20,675
And I think, you know, Intel has sort of
followed your advice and now spitting out their
228
00:14:20,675 --> 00:14:21,715
corporate venture group.
229
00:14:21,715 --> 00:14:24,434
M12 sort of spun out and rebranded.
230
00:14:24,434 --> 00:14:27,634
I think the Intel Venture Group is going to
rebrand.
231
00:14:27,795 --> 00:14:31,235
So they are sort of more and more operating
like independent VCs.
232
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:35,670
There anything you would highlight with regard
to how you think about sort of corporate
233
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:39,990
venture groups and operating as a key
stakeholder in the venture ecosystem?
234
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:40,950
Yeah.
235
00:14:40,950 --> 00:14:49,745
I mean, I think if we have the same, you know,
same objective as all the large VC funds which
236
00:14:49,745 --> 00:14:51,504
is to return the fund, right?
237
00:14:51,504 --> 00:14:54,625
Get 5x, 10x, 20x.
238
00:14:54,865 --> 00:15:01,740
If that's our objective, we're going to go at
the market and go after opportunities the same
239
00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:04,860
way they do, right, which is for financial
return.
240
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:12,539
So first and foremost, we want to return the
fund and we want to be in the top 25% quartile,
241
00:15:12,539 --> 00:15:13,659
right, the top quarter.
242
00:15:13,659 --> 00:15:15,845
So I don't know what that is of late.
243
00:15:15,845 --> 00:15:22,004
It was, you know, 2.5x and above was in the top
25% quartile.
244
00:15:22,085 --> 00:15:23,764
That's always our goal, right?
245
00:15:23,764 --> 00:15:30,679
So our opinion, and it will be, is to make the
best financial investments because ultimately
246
00:15:30,839 --> 00:15:35,799
those are going to be the best technology
companies as well for our customers, right?
247
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:42,360
We want to invest in companies that we can
recommend to our customers, and those companies
248
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,720
have to be doing well, right?
249
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,664
We don't want to introduce a start up to them
that really is, you know, not gonna make it.
250
00:15:48,825 --> 00:15:50,745
That wouldn't be good for us or for them.
251
00:15:50,745 --> 00:15:56,985
So we really have pretty strict financial
guidelines and I think they're identical or
252
00:15:56,985 --> 00:16:02,710
similar to most VCs, you know, that we work
with out there.
253
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:07,910
We have the same criteria, so it puts us all on
the same page of what we're looking for and how
254
00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:11,670
we're going to go after the market and how
we're going to get those returns that we need.
255
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:15,750
I don't think they're going to keep us around
forever if we lose all their money, right?
256
00:16:16,065 --> 00:16:17,825
As my CFO would say.
257
00:16:19,184 --> 00:16:21,024
Self sustainability is an important thing.
258
00:16:22,465 --> 00:16:24,784
You've got an evergreen fund, right?
259
00:16:24,784 --> 00:16:27,825
That's the structure at Tiara Ventures.
260
00:16:27,825 --> 00:16:29,585
And maybe you could talk a little bit about
that.
261
00:16:29,585 --> 00:16:33,430
And then are you just investing in companies?
262
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:34,870
Do you invest into SPVs?
263
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:37,990
Do you invest into other VC funds to get access
to deal flow?
264
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:42,629
Maybe you could talk about the evergreen
structure and then sort of the deployment
265
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:44,024
strategy to add.
266
00:16:44,024 --> 00:16:44,585
Yeah.
267
00:16:45,065 --> 00:16:49,705
And I would say our definition of Evergreen may
not be the same as some others.
268
00:16:49,865 --> 00:16:52,184
Our intent is to be an Evergreen Fund.
269
00:16:52,184 --> 00:16:53,304
We're still early, right?
270
00:16:53,304 --> 00:16:56,504
We're in year four, so we certainly haven't
returned the fund yet.
271
00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:02,879
We refreshed the fund, so from an Evergreen
perspective, you know, we look at it every
272
00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:07,599
three years to refresh the fund, but the
intention is that, you know, in that seven to
273
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:14,255
ten year period, we will return the funds on,
you know, a regular basis as well, right?
274
00:17:14,255 --> 00:17:21,694
So it will become a self sustaining group
within the organization.
275
00:17:21,695 --> 00:17:28,539
Again, we're investing so early that our intent
to return would be, you know, in that same time
276
00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:34,460
frame that seed and Series A funds return,
which is at the moment ten years.
277
00:17:35,345 --> 00:17:36,944
And so that's our intention.
278
00:17:38,224 --> 00:17:45,345
We do, with our latest fund, we are taking
positions in other funds, very small positions,
279
00:17:45,585 --> 00:17:48,224
and it's geographic or vertical focused.
280
00:17:48,224 --> 00:17:54,660
So if you think of we have a big focus in
LatAm, we have a big office in Sao Paulo, we
281
00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:57,700
were talking earlier about the Kaufman Fellows
being there this week.
282
00:17:58,019 --> 00:18:06,244
We have a big payroll and tax operation, a
solution down there called Dominio, where we do
283
00:18:06,244 --> 00:18:11,044
the tax and payroll for about 70% of small
businesses in Brazil.
284
00:18:11,445 --> 00:18:18,700
We also have a big legal product and solution
for law firms and corporate legal departments,
285
00:18:18,779 --> 00:18:21,179
just like we do in North America.
286
00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:26,859
And so if you look at it from that perspective,
we don't have staff in Brazil, right, looking
287
00:18:26,859 --> 00:18:28,619
at every deal that's out there.
288
00:18:28,619 --> 00:18:33,464
So can we take a position in an early stage
fund, a seed stage fund, that can then share
289
00:18:33,464 --> 00:18:38,424
that information with us so that we can make
some joint investments when it comes to a
290
00:18:38,424 --> 00:18:39,865
Series A, right?
291
00:18:40,025 --> 00:18:45,545
Same thing like with the legal tech fund here
in North America, only focused on legal tech.
292
00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:51,049
They're looking at every legal tech company
that is out there.
293
00:18:51,850 --> 00:18:56,569
They can share deal flow with us, what the
market is, what valuations are on legal tech,
294
00:18:57,369 --> 00:18:59,875
and an M and A world as well.
295
00:18:59,875 --> 00:19:02,434
So those are the kinds of things we're looking
at.
296
00:19:02,434 --> 00:19:07,315
Same thing in Southeast Asia, where we'll take
an LP position there as well.
297
00:19:07,315 --> 00:19:12,914
And we'll add to those to give us more
geographic post coverage, as well as vertical
298
00:19:12,914 --> 00:19:13,315
coverage.
299
00:19:14,299 --> 00:19:14,779
I see.
300
00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:15,579
I understand.
301
00:19:15,579 --> 00:19:17,019
Okay, that's helpful.
302
00:19:17,339 --> 00:19:24,859
Speaking of legal tech, is it true that the
industry sector of law firms is sort of
303
00:19:24,859 --> 00:19:29,419
adopting generative AI and those tools faster
than sort of any other industry sector?
304
00:19:29,419 --> 00:19:33,954
Maybe you could, you have such a lens into that
particular customer segment.
305
00:19:34,034 --> 00:19:40,755
Maybe you could talk a little bit about how AI
is influencing or impacting law firm segment of
306
00:19:40,755 --> 00:19:41,714
customers out there.
307
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,680
You know, it is really interesting because I
would say three years ago we co sponsored the
308
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:54,440
Legal Tech Fund's first conference in Miami and
they had, you know, maybe 10, you know,
309
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:54,839
startups.
310
00:19:55,565 --> 00:19:59,884
One of them was a company, one of our first
legal tech investments was a company called
311
00:19:59,884 --> 00:20:03,724
Spellbook, which has been on fire from the get
go.
312
00:20:03,724 --> 00:20:07,484
It's fantastic technology in the legal tech
world.
313
00:20:07,724 --> 00:20:13,929
But know, they would say maybe 10% of law firms
were using it or testing it or you know they
314
00:20:13,929 --> 00:20:21,129
had one or two people in the firm that were
looking at it and that was December of twenty
315
00:20:21,289 --> 00:20:22,329
twenty two.
316
00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:30,825
And you look at it two years later and it's
like most law firms have and are using AI every
317
00:20:30,825 --> 00:20:32,024
single day, right?
318
00:20:32,024 --> 00:20:35,065
Is it every single partner, every single person
in the firm?
319
00:20:35,144 --> 00:20:41,660
No, but I would say as a percentage it's
significantly higher than one or two people,
320
00:20:41,660 --> 00:20:41,980
right?
321
00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:49,019
So, I would say legal is really adopting it
much faster than people predicted, in my
322
00:20:49,019 --> 00:20:52,380
opinion, and tax is right there behind.
323
00:20:52,684 --> 00:20:57,005
And there's two reasons why legal and tax AI is
so applicable.
324
00:20:57,005 --> 00:21:04,845
One, you have the content and the data sources
to create models in legal for verticalization
325
00:21:04,845 --> 00:21:14,750
of solutions, whether it's debt transactions or
patent or, you know, litigation, plaintiff type
326
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:20,990
work, those solutions can be very very targeted
and very effective at what they do, right,
327
00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:24,364
sitting beside a lawyer and having a lawyer use
it.
328
00:21:24,365 --> 00:21:25,565
Same thing in tax, right?
329
00:21:25,565 --> 00:21:29,164
There's just not enough accountants, there's
not enough people to do the work, right?
330
00:21:29,164 --> 00:21:36,285
Can you apply, you know, tax code and a tax
engine and create agentic solutions that will
331
00:21:36,285 --> 00:21:37,919
do your taxes, right?
332
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:39,519
Yes, the answer is yes.
333
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:47,119
And so you're seeing great technology being
applied in those categories, and used every day
334
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:48,399
right now, right?
335
00:21:48,399 --> 00:21:51,039
And so, I don't think that's going to change.
336
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:52,720
It's only going to continue to increase.
337
00:21:53,825 --> 00:21:57,984
And there's more and more tech, you know, kind
of startups happening in both of those
338
00:21:57,984 --> 00:21:59,984
categories, seems like daily.
339
00:21:59,984 --> 00:22:03,024
So, yeah, I think there's a lot of room to
grow.
340
00:22:04,945 --> 00:22:07,105
I think all the firms are using the tech right
now.
341
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:12,230
Extraordinary demand in the legal sector, the
accounting sector, other compliance areas that
342
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:13,669
you're focused on without a doubt.
343
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:19,269
As you see that customer demand from your own
customer base and you turn your attention to
344
00:22:19,269 --> 00:22:25,025
startups and sort of deal flow, are there
systematic deal flow strategies that you have?
345
00:22:25,025 --> 00:22:26,065
Are there tactics?
346
00:22:26,304 --> 00:22:30,384
Maybe just talk a little bit about where you're
sourcing most of your opportunities from.
347
00:22:30,464 --> 00:22:31,664
Is it professional networks?
348
00:22:31,664 --> 00:22:33,904
Is it attendance at events?
349
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,440
How are you sourcing deals these days?
350
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,080
We definitely have good relationships with a
lot of VCs.
351
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:48,799
I'd say most of the large VCs and other,
especially if they're in our categories, like
352
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:53,575
they're looking at the same segments we're
looking at, we have pretty detailed thesis
353
00:22:53,575 --> 00:22:55,815
under each category of what we need.
354
00:22:56,134 --> 00:22:58,055
We don't invest in competitive tech.
355
00:22:58,055 --> 00:23:01,815
It's kind of one of our things, like we don't
want our company to compete against the
356
00:23:01,815 --> 00:23:03,095
startups that we're investing in.
357
00:23:03,569 --> 00:23:09,089
It may happen over time with roadmaps and
things changing, so we can't promise that
358
00:23:09,089 --> 00:23:11,250
forever, but that's the intent, right?
359
00:23:11,250 --> 00:23:13,249
We're not going to invest in competitive tech.
360
00:23:13,329 --> 00:23:19,944
So our thesis is anything that our customers
may need that is adjacent to the technology we
361
00:23:20,105 --> 00:23:21,544
already offer them.
362
00:23:21,784 --> 00:23:26,424
So we try to really dig in in those categories.
363
00:23:27,144 --> 00:23:32,059
You know, in the case of Materia, which we
ended up acquiring, they were a seed stage
364
00:23:32,059 --> 00:23:42,059
company that had amazing, an amazing kind of
MVP, and really came in, gave us a demo, and we
365
00:23:42,059 --> 00:23:46,140
started talking with them about, you know, our
product team started talking with them about,
366
00:23:46,384 --> 00:23:50,144
hey, what if you did this or what about this
and this is what customers are asking.
367
00:23:50,705 --> 00:23:55,505
So there was a lot of, insight into what they
were building.
368
00:23:56,305 --> 00:24:00,144
Hence, you know, we really loved what they
ended up building and offered it to our
369
00:24:00,144 --> 00:24:00,705
customers.
370
00:24:00,705 --> 00:24:04,779
Our customers loved it, and now they're part of
our family.
371
00:24:04,779 --> 00:24:11,740
But, yeah, I would say, you know, overall we
have pretty deep thesis and we share those
372
00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:13,900
thesis with other VCs.
373
00:24:14,204 --> 00:24:19,244
So the good news is VCs they get to know us and
they want to look at legal tech or tax or
374
00:24:19,404 --> 00:24:22,204
indirect tax direct tax from a corporate level.
375
00:24:22,524 --> 00:24:25,565
We can help them, right?
376
00:24:25,565 --> 00:24:30,710
We've great great engineering and product
people that help us diligence products.
377
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:35,910
We've looked at a lot so we know the space
well, if they bring somebody to us we can
378
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:39,509
quickly give them an opinion of what's missing,
what's not missing.
379
00:24:40,045 --> 00:24:44,204
So we've tried to develop these partnerships
where they're trusted and they know we have the
380
00:24:44,204 --> 00:24:47,964
right expertise to help in the categories that
we look at.
381
00:24:48,125 --> 00:24:52,845
Yeah, beyond the product expertise, it's clear
that you provide efficient access to channels
382
00:24:53,769 --> 00:24:57,369
customers that can be really valuable for a
startup in the early stages.
383
00:24:57,369 --> 00:25:03,130
And so having you on the cap table early, once
the company's got a minimum viable product and
384
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:07,690
product market fit, to be able to extend out in
that channel is very easy to see.
385
00:25:08,625 --> 00:25:14,224
Circling back on a comment that you made
earlier about sort of self sustainability of TR
386
00:25:14,224 --> 00:25:19,424
Ventures and the importance of financial
returns, do you complement that with any level
387
00:25:19,424 --> 00:25:23,184
of sort of strategic focus or any mission
driven activities?
388
00:25:23,184 --> 00:25:28,839
I'm finding that in addition to financial
returns, there's also a strategic element to
389
00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:31,880
the decision making around investments from
many corporate venture groups.
390
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,039
And then on occasion, they're also thinking
about the sustainable development goals or
391
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:36,440
other things.
392
00:25:36,615 --> 00:25:40,694
Are you purely financially driven or are you
looking at other strategy elements or mission
393
00:25:40,694 --> 00:25:41,654
driven elements?
394
00:25:41,894 --> 00:25:46,375
Yeah, mean, would say we look at all three, but
we first and foremost, the financials have to
395
00:25:46,375 --> 00:25:47,255
make sense to us.
396
00:25:47,255 --> 00:25:50,535
And then second, you know, we don't invest in
what we don't know, right?
397
00:25:50,535 --> 00:25:55,970
So if we can't diligence it with good
engineering or good product people, it's not in
398
00:25:55,970 --> 00:26:01,970
a category we understand, we're not going to
look at it because it doesn't make sense for
399
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:02,450
us, right?
400
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:06,210
Because we can't do the diligence we need to
make the decision.
401
00:26:06,224 --> 00:26:11,345
So ultimately, we're investing in what we know,
which is strategic, right?
402
00:26:11,345 --> 00:26:14,065
And then we don't invest in overlapping tech,
right?
403
00:26:14,304 --> 00:26:21,029
There may be little elements that we do or they
do that we'll see occasionally and we figure
404
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:23,669
out a way to work with them to take them into
our customers.
405
00:26:23,910 --> 00:26:28,710
But overall, we we try to align with things we
don't have that our customers need.
406
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:30,549
So ultimately it is strategic.
407
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:31,429
Yeah.
408
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:36,974
So most, sounds like many of your deals are
sourced through the broader venture community
409
00:26:36,974 --> 00:26:38,734
and other professional relationships you have.
410
00:26:38,734 --> 00:26:43,934
When entrepreneurs knock on your door directly,
are there certain sort of characteristics,
411
00:26:44,414 --> 00:26:48,494
qualities in the company or in the entrepreneur
that you're looking for?
412
00:26:48,734 --> 00:26:53,990
Maybe just describe sort of who sort of breaks
through the noise and gets your attention
413
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:58,150
because of something about their company or
about the entrepreneur specifically.
414
00:26:58,549 --> 00:27:03,350
Yeah, if they understand what we sell to our
customers and they can explain where they fit,
415
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:07,565
you know, hey, you guys sell to lawyers or hey,
you guys sell to accountants or this is a
416
00:27:07,565 --> 00:27:13,724
corporate tax program or this fits, you know,
the general counsel and, you know, mid sized
417
00:27:13,724 --> 00:27:14,444
companies.
418
00:27:14,845 --> 00:27:18,205
They know what we do and where we can bring
them in.
419
00:27:18,205 --> 00:27:22,809
If they know our customer base and it fits
where they want to go, that's usually a pretty
420
00:27:22,809 --> 00:27:25,049
good fit if they can explain it to me.
421
00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:26,970
That's number one.
422
00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:29,769
You know, second time founders are always
great, you know.
423
00:27:31,529 --> 00:27:32,889
It's not perfect, right?
424
00:27:32,889 --> 00:27:38,154
You don't always hit multiple home runs, but it
does help that somebody's got a startup
425
00:27:38,154 --> 00:27:44,554
background, at least from my perspective,
because they understand what it takes to run a
426
00:27:44,795 --> 00:27:45,195
startup.
427
00:27:45,195 --> 00:27:46,234
So that's important.
428
00:27:46,394 --> 00:27:51,515
But again, in our categories, if they know what
we're doing, and they tell me where their
429
00:27:51,515 --> 00:27:53,899
product fits, that's usually what I need.
430
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:55,259
They've done their homework.
431
00:27:55,259 --> 00:28:00,059
They understand who your customer is and, how
they can add value with your existing line of
432
00:28:00,059 --> 00:28:00,460
products.
433
00:28:00,460 --> 00:28:02,700
Yeah, it makes great sense to me.
434
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:10,734
Outside of sort of exchanging market insight
with the traditional venture community and
435
00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:15,534
potentially sourcing deals from them and co
investing, any other ways you're collaborating
436
00:28:15,534 --> 00:28:20,049
with the traditional venture community or
anything that you would suggest or anything
437
00:28:20,049 --> 00:28:25,169
you'd like to do with the traditional venture
community that could add value to what you're
438
00:28:25,169 --> 00:28:26,769
trying to accomplish within TR?
439
00:28:27,329 --> 00:28:27,889
Yeah.
440
00:28:27,889 --> 00:28:34,455
I mean, I would say we are a member of the
National Venture Capital Association, also the
441
00:28:34,455 --> 00:28:39,494
Global Corporate Venturing, so we do try to
attend those events when possible.
442
00:28:39,494 --> 00:28:42,934
There's only eight of us, so, you know, we
spread ourselves then.
443
00:28:42,934 --> 00:28:48,160
We do attend a lot of conferences, particularly
in the category of, you know, tax, right?
444
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,680
So Money twenty twenty and, you know, legal
tech conferences, so that we can, you know, see
445
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,799
what's in market.
446
00:28:55,599 --> 00:29:02,414
So that's where we find founders and we try to
meet with as many investors as we can to make
447
00:29:02,414 --> 00:29:05,534
sure they understand what we're looking at and
where we can syndicate deals.
448
00:29:05,855 --> 00:29:10,894
So that's I think that it's working for us
right now and I think that will remain our
449
00:29:10,894 --> 00:29:13,134
strategy to get our brand out there.
450
00:29:13,134 --> 00:29:17,839
We're still only three and a half years old, so
still relatively new in market.
451
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:24,799
Hopefully people have heard of us more by now
than they did three years ago, and we'll keep
452
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:26,160
trying to get the brand out there.
453
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,599
I think you've done a great job of elevating
your brand, and I certainly have run into
454
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:33,214
entrepreneurs that are very familiar with TIER
Ventures and with you.
455
00:29:33,214 --> 00:29:36,014
So I think you're doing a great job of
elevating your brand.
456
00:29:36,335 --> 00:29:44,509
As you look forward, any particular industry
sectors or problem sets that, you find
457
00:29:44,509 --> 00:29:49,150
intriguing if you look out sort of three to
five years for areas of innovation that you
458
00:29:49,150 --> 00:29:55,789
think, are either personally interesting or
highly relevant to what you're doing at, at TR?
459
00:29:55,789 --> 00:30:00,865
Is there any one or two things that you would
highlight for the entrepreneurs out there that
460
00:30:00,865 --> 00:30:03,504
are thinking about bringing innovation to you
and to TR?
461
00:30:03,984 --> 00:30:04,384
Yeah.
462
00:30:04,384 --> 00:30:10,625
I mean, lately I've been looking a lot at
corporate tax, right, on that side and what's
463
00:30:10,625 --> 00:30:11,024
changing.
464
00:30:11,024 --> 00:30:12,865
There's a lot of laws changing globally.
465
00:30:13,420 --> 00:30:17,500
And we bought a company in Sweden called Pagero
that does e invoicing.
466
00:30:17,579 --> 00:30:25,820
So if you think about cross border payments,
taxes, and what's happening globally, it's
467
00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:28,220
really complex and it's changing pretty
quickly.
468
00:30:29,225 --> 00:30:34,184
And so I've been trying to understand what's
happening in that market and solutions that
469
00:30:34,184 --> 00:30:37,304
work globally for our customers.
470
00:30:37,945 --> 00:30:45,460
So that's been probably it's super complex, so
anybody who's going to go try to fix it is not
471
00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:50,420
going to be able to fix all of it, but, you
know, some of it, if you piece it out, even the
472
00:30:50,420 --> 00:30:55,619
pieces are pretty big from a total addressable
market, so we've been looking at that quite a
473
00:30:55,619 --> 00:31:01,475
bit, in addition to everything you can do in
legal and tax because if you think of our
474
00:31:01,475 --> 00:31:04,515
markets Southeast Asia, you know, Brazil.
475
00:31:04,515 --> 00:31:11,075
Brazil probably has more complex tax codes than
The US, as crazy as that is, and also probably
476
00:31:11,075 --> 00:31:13,730
more litigation than The U.
477
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:14,049
S.
478
00:31:14,049 --> 00:31:19,250
So it's LatAm is a just high growth area as a
whole.
479
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:22,609
So we've been looking a lot at a lot of fintech
in that space as well.
480
00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:24,049
Interesting.
481
00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:24,690
Okay.
482
00:31:25,170 --> 00:31:28,294
All right, we're going to switch to the rapid
fire portion of the Q and A.
483
00:31:28,294 --> 00:31:30,534
Just a couple of quick questions for you as we
wrap up here.
484
00:31:30,534 --> 00:31:36,774
How do you prepare yourself for professional
excellence as a sort of a high performing CDC?
485
00:31:36,775 --> 00:31:40,849
What are the kinds of things that you find
yourself doing to stay in touch with market
486
00:31:40,849 --> 00:31:46,210
trends or to, you know, ensure that the
internal culture with your team there?
487
00:31:46,210 --> 00:31:49,730
Anything that you would highlight as it relates
to sort of professional development or
488
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:50,529
professional excellence?
489
00:31:51,825 --> 00:31:56,065
You know I would say we do a lot of this rapid
fire with our team, right?
490
00:31:56,065 --> 00:32:02,625
Our team meetings just trying to go through
pipeline for sourcing in a very quick way to
491
00:32:02,625 --> 00:32:07,430
make sure we're looking at everything, do we
need to take a second look, and we try to pass
492
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:08,230
fast, right?
493
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:13,990
So I would say one of the things we try to do
in venture, we're not perfect, but we try to
494
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:17,990
look at it, look at it quickly, and make sure
the founder knows why we're not going to
495
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:21,335
invest, or if we need to look at it in a year,
right?
496
00:32:21,335 --> 00:32:23,174
It may be too early stage for us.
497
00:32:23,335 --> 00:32:27,575
So we try to keep that premise around at all
times.
498
00:32:27,575 --> 00:32:29,734
If we're going to pass, let's pass fast, right?
499
00:32:29,734 --> 00:32:33,575
So they can move on and they can go raise the
round or do what they need to do quickly.
500
00:32:34,294 --> 00:32:41,549
But move quickly, right, is probably the most
important thing in VC and it remains the most
501
00:32:41,549 --> 00:32:42,829
important thing, I think.
502
00:32:43,149 --> 00:32:48,589
Operating at the speed of a startup, right, and
being able to mirror that is difficult, even
503
00:32:48,589 --> 00:32:52,615
for traditional VCs at times, to get through
your proper due diligence.
504
00:32:52,615 --> 00:32:54,375
But I think that's an astute comment.
505
00:32:54,695 --> 00:32:56,454
That makes great sense to me.
506
00:32:56,695 --> 00:33:03,015
Favorite blog or podcast or publication, that
sort of keeps you with the market insight that
507
00:33:03,015 --> 00:33:04,134
you need to make great decisions?
508
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:06,230
Oh, don't know if market insight.
509
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:06,710
Let's see.
510
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:11,429
Podcast, I would say, it has nothing to do with
the market, but I really like it.
511
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:16,549
The two Kelsey brothers on New Heights and all
the sports they talk about, I tend to listen to
512
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:20,355
that when I run because I think that they are
hilarious.
513
00:33:21,154 --> 00:33:23,794
So I don't know if that gives me any market
insight.
514
00:33:23,955 --> 00:33:30,755
You know, I don't I do listen to a lot of
venture capitalists and their opinions, and I
515
00:33:30,755 --> 00:33:36,529
read a lot, But I would say as far as podcasts,
I probably listen to more fun podcasts than I
516
00:33:36,529 --> 00:33:38,609
do venture capital podcasts.
517
00:33:39,250 --> 00:33:44,964
I got to follow your lead there, because I end
up sort of on the grind listening to these
518
00:33:44,964 --> 00:33:48,724
technical podcasts when I'm running or riding a
bike.
519
00:33:48,724 --> 00:33:51,284
I think I need to chill out a little bit.
520
00:33:51,525 --> 00:33:53,284
Yes, unspoken a little bit.
521
00:33:53,284 --> 00:33:53,845
Yep.
522
00:33:54,085 --> 00:33:56,244
It helps you go to work with a better attitude.
523
00:33:58,909 --> 00:34:01,069
Okay, favorite restaurant, last question.
524
00:34:01,149 --> 00:34:02,429
Favorite restaurant in Dallas.
525
00:34:02,429 --> 00:34:06,109
So last time I was there, went to Nobu, which
was just like a world class meal.
526
00:34:06,109 --> 00:34:08,989
Was there with my family, so I had the right
crowd with me.
527
00:34:09,150 --> 00:34:12,750
I love Nobu, but I'm looking for sort of in the
nooks and crannies of Dallas.
528
00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:14,494
What's the gem from your perspective?
529
00:34:14,494 --> 00:34:16,735
Well, would have to say Tex Mex, right?
530
00:34:16,735 --> 00:34:17,855
Because that's what we're known for.
531
00:34:17,855 --> 00:34:21,295
I would say Dose Mesas is fantastic.
532
00:34:21,295 --> 00:34:26,574
A little less fancy might be Tupanamba, which
is my daughter would say Dose Mesas.
533
00:34:26,574 --> 00:34:27,775
I would say Tupanamba.
534
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,800
I'm a big Tex Mex fan, and it's whoever makes
the better margarita, and they both make a
535
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:33,680
great margarita.
536
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,280
So I like both of those.
537
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:36,640
All right.
538
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,480
I'll give them a shot in my next visit.
539
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,804
On behalf of the team at Impact Venture Capital
and the Kaufman Fellows, thanks to Tamara
540
00:34:42,804 --> 00:34:44,644
Steffens for spending a little bit of time with
us.
541
00:34:44,644 --> 00:34:45,525
Thanks, Tamara.
542
00:34:45,844 --> 00:34:46,565
You're welcome.
543
00:34:46,565 --> 00:34:47,445
Thanks, guys.
544
00:34:48,085 --> 00:34:49,605
That's a wrap for this week's show.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,480
I see.
2
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:01,280
I understand.
3
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:01,760
Okay.
4
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:02,719
That's helpful.
5
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:10,559
Speaking of legal tech, is it true that the
industry sector of law firms is sort of
6
00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:15,134
adopting generative AI and those tools faster
than sort of any other industry sector.
7
00:00:15,134 --> 00:00:19,695
Maybe you have such a lens into that particular
customer segment.
8
00:00:25,695 --> 00:00:29,730
Welcome to Impact TV, a corporate venture video
series through a partnership with Impact
9
00:00:29,730 --> 00:00:31,649
Venture Capital and the Kaufman Fellows.
10
00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:34,850
I'm Jack Crawford, a founding general partner
at Impact Venture Capital.
11
00:00:34,850 --> 00:00:39,490
And alongside my colleagues, Pat Bumpus from
Impact Venture Capital and my co chair from
12
00:00:39,490 --> 00:00:44,484
Kaufman, Alessandro Santo, we're excited to
welcome Tamara Stephens, Managing Director at
13
00:00:44,484 --> 00:00:45,445
Thomson Reuters Ventures.
14
00:00:45,445 --> 00:00:46,884
Hi Tamara, how are you doing today?
15
00:00:46,965 --> 00:00:48,405
Hey, good Jack, how are you?
16
00:00:48,405 --> 00:00:49,204
I'm doing great.
17
00:00:49,204 --> 00:00:52,164
So let's see, you're spending a little bit of
time in New York, obviously, where Thomson
18
00:00:52,164 --> 00:00:54,564
Reuters is Headquarter, but you live in Dallas,
is that right?
19
00:00:54,725 --> 00:00:55,765
I do live in Dallas.
20
00:00:55,765 --> 00:00:59,500
We're actually headquartered in Toronto, just
our fund is headquartered here in New York.
21
00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:00,140
Got it.
22
00:01:00,140 --> 00:01:00,699
Okay.
23
00:01:00,939 --> 00:01:04,140
So I've been paying attention to the Dallas
market because I happen to be a Sacramento
24
00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:08,859
Kings basketball fan, the Dallas Mavericks and
the Kings are fighting it out for the last spot
25
00:01:08,859 --> 00:01:10,540
in the NBA, playoff.
26
00:01:10,540 --> 00:01:14,144
You lost a major player to the Lakers or less.
27
00:01:14,144 --> 00:01:14,384
Don't know.
28
00:01:14,384 --> 00:01:16,305
Has there been any revolts in Dallas?
29
00:01:16,864 --> 00:01:17,504
A lot.
30
00:01:17,504 --> 00:01:20,704
I think, if you ask anybody, they would say,
what the heck happened?
31
00:01:20,704 --> 00:01:21,984
Who made that decision?
32
00:01:23,025 --> 00:01:27,340
You know, I grew up in Detroit, so, you know,
I'm still rooting for the Pistons at some
33
00:01:27,340 --> 00:01:32,540
point, but they, you know, hit or miss there in
that city, depending on the sport.
34
00:01:32,620 --> 00:01:36,540
They've gone from, they may go from worse to
first, because I think they had the absolute
35
00:01:36,540 --> 00:01:41,125
worst record in the NBA last year, and now in a
solid playoff spot.
36
00:01:41,125 --> 00:01:44,884
So I think your dedication may pay off.
37
00:01:45,284 --> 00:01:48,244
Yeah, well, it finally paid off on the Lions,
right?
38
00:01:48,244 --> 00:01:53,299
I think I wanted to throw a turkey leg at the
TV for twenty years in a row on Thanksgiving.
39
00:01:53,299 --> 00:01:56,420
But, you know, we've had a couple of good
seasons.
40
00:01:56,420 --> 00:01:58,899
So it pays to stay.
41
00:01:58,899 --> 00:02:00,659
Stay true to your team.
42
00:02:01,780 --> 00:02:03,140
Loyalty is paying off.
43
00:02:03,619 --> 00:02:08,419
So let's talk a little bit about your
professional career, to kick things off and
44
00:02:07,775 --> 00:02:09,455
allow you to introduce yourself a little bit.
45
00:02:09,455 --> 00:02:13,455
Some time at Sun Microsystems, Silicon
Graphics, and then obviously as it relates to
46
00:02:13,455 --> 00:02:18,814
corporate venture, some time at Microsoft's M12
and now at TR Ventures.
47
00:02:18,814 --> 00:02:23,580
Maybe you could just talk a little bit about
that journey and sort of what led you from one
48
00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:24,780
opportunity to the next.
49
00:02:25,180 --> 00:02:25,900
Yeah.
50
00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:27,259
Microsoft was pretty interesting.
51
00:02:27,259 --> 00:02:33,419
It was my sixth startup, and we actually ended
up selling it to Microsoft.
52
00:02:33,514 --> 00:02:39,034
So for those of you who use Outlook mobile on
your phone, the old app was actually called
53
00:02:39,034 --> 00:02:39,995
Accompli.
54
00:02:40,715 --> 00:02:43,034
It still looks and feels very similar.
55
00:02:43,034 --> 00:02:45,594
There haven't been many changes to it, so I
guess it was good.
56
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,000
And then that was at the end of twenty
fourteen.
57
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,800
And I did a lot of business development for
them, mostly on mobile because they were in
58
00:02:53,800 --> 00:03:02,455
transition of getting away from Windows mobile
and moving to Android and iOS for all of their
59
00:03:02,455 --> 00:03:03,175
apps.
60
00:03:03,974 --> 00:03:09,495
So we were the first mobile tech company that
they acquired, and so we spent a great deal of
61
00:03:09,495 --> 00:03:16,310
time working with Google and Apple and Samsung
and, you know, making sure that our apps ran
62
00:03:16,310 --> 00:03:19,349
well on all the devices out there.
63
00:03:20,469 --> 00:03:24,710
And that was really my background, was mobile
tech and a lot of email.
64
00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:26,709
That was my third email company.
65
00:03:28,175 --> 00:03:30,335
So yeah, I was excited to be at Microsoft.
66
00:03:30,335 --> 00:03:31,775
Did that for a few years.
67
00:03:31,935 --> 00:03:42,599
Originally, they started the fund, Microsoft
Ventures, they had asked several of us from the
68
00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:46,919
acquisition to take a look at how they could
structure the fund and what would be most
69
00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:47,560
beneficial.
70
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:53,879
So we did give input when they first set up the
fund to begin with, and then a few years later
71
00:03:53,879 --> 00:03:55,239
they asked me to take it over.
72
00:03:56,775 --> 00:04:03,014
And I stayed for three years, and then Thomson
Reuters said, hey, we'll give you a chance to
73
00:04:03,014 --> 00:04:06,694
start the fund from scratch, and I was like,
this would be fantastic.
74
00:04:06,694 --> 00:04:13,430
It's super thesis driven, so we happen to be
very focused on legal, tax, risk, and fraud.
75
00:04:15,590 --> 00:04:21,350
Obviously with AI applied to those categories,
it's a pretty fantastic spot to be right now.
76
00:04:22,355 --> 00:04:27,634
What would you say is a primary difference
outside of industry sector focus at M12 versus
77
00:04:27,634 --> 00:04:28,675
TR Ventures?
78
00:04:28,675 --> 00:04:31,795
Any other fundamental differences that you
would note?
79
00:04:31,955 --> 00:04:33,235
You know, not really.
80
00:04:33,235 --> 00:04:38,800
We were very independent at Microsoft, and
we're very independent here at Thomson Reuters.
81
00:04:39,199 --> 00:04:46,319
You know, we didn't need business unit approval
at Microsoft and we don't require it here.
82
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:54,235
I would say that because we're smaller, we have
a better opportunity for moving into a
83
00:04:54,235 --> 00:04:56,714
partnership pretty quickly, right?
84
00:04:56,714 --> 00:05:03,354
So as we look at companies, sometimes we can
even suggest a partnership, you know, before we
85
00:05:03,354 --> 00:05:05,910
invest, which is even better, right?
86
00:05:06,550 --> 00:05:07,670
But not required.
87
00:05:07,670 --> 00:05:12,389
A lot of times, you know, we have to get into
the deals as quickly as other financial VCs get
88
00:05:12,389 --> 00:05:18,149
in, and we move very fast, we'd rather take a
position at the table and then work the
89
00:05:18,149 --> 00:05:21,044
partnership that's what's required.
90
00:05:21,204 --> 00:05:25,524
And sometimes, you know, we're investing in
something that's pretty early stage, which is
91
00:05:25,524 --> 00:05:31,685
our most investments, right, is Series A, we do
a little bit of seed.
92
00:05:32,485 --> 00:05:37,810
Startups, you know, that are a million to
3,000,000 in revenue are still early, right?
93
00:05:37,810 --> 00:05:42,930
They can't take the full muscle of Thomson
Reuters, go to market.
94
00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:48,324
So we kind of have to pick and choose what's
going to work for them, and not take away from
95
00:05:48,324 --> 00:05:51,685
their natural growth, right?
96
00:05:51,764 --> 00:05:55,444
And bring them new deals, but not bury them,
right?
97
00:05:55,444 --> 00:05:58,324
So we try to be careful in how we partner.
98
00:05:59,539 --> 00:06:04,579
One of our portfolio companies, Pondero, was
focused on fraud, waste, and abuse in the
99
00:06:04,579 --> 00:06:06,180
government market.
100
00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:07,220
And they got some traction.
101
00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:10,899
Think they ended up getting between 10,000,000
and $20,000,000 of revenue and is ultimately
102
00:06:10,899 --> 00:06:12,180
acquired by Thomson Reuters.
103
00:06:12,615 --> 00:06:17,735
And I think the part of the driver was
expanding into the government segment and
104
00:06:17,735 --> 00:06:19,814
having more customers in the government
segment.
105
00:06:19,894 --> 00:06:26,694
I know you to focus mostly on law firms,
accounting firms, other things that relate to
106
00:06:26,694 --> 00:06:27,415
risk and compliance.
107
00:06:27,660 --> 00:06:30,699
Are you still looking at sort of active efforts
in the government channel?
108
00:06:30,699 --> 00:06:34,300
Can you talk a little bit about that market
segment and how important or not it is?
109
00:06:34,620 --> 00:06:37,899
Yeah, it's still a really important segment for
Thomson Reuters.
110
00:06:37,899 --> 00:06:40,300
We have a lot of focus around the government.
111
00:06:42,035 --> 00:06:47,714
But I would say from an investment perspective,
it's slightly narrower.
112
00:06:47,794 --> 00:06:51,235
Not that we don't look at that category at all
because we do.
113
00:06:51,555 --> 00:06:58,189
Just, you know, what our team needs in that
category is, as you said risk and fraud.
114
00:06:58,430 --> 00:07:05,229
It is a large category, don't get me wrong
obviously, but you know what we can do and what
115
00:07:05,229 --> 00:07:09,789
we can help is slightly narrower than some of
the other categories we look at from an
116
00:07:10,214 --> 00:07:10,694
perspective.
117
00:07:10,694 --> 00:07:12,774
But no, still super important to us.
118
00:07:14,375 --> 00:07:18,694
And we still look at, I mean, were looking at a
FedRAMP company the other day that's doing
119
00:07:18,694 --> 00:07:19,415
really well.
120
00:07:20,134 --> 00:07:21,495
So we still look at it.
121
00:07:21,495 --> 00:07:25,175
We haven't found anything that's really only
government.
122
00:07:25,540 --> 00:07:33,139
I would say some of the tech, even much of the
tech that we look at from a tax perspective or
123
00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:38,259
a legal perspective, often can fit into the
government sector as well.
124
00:07:39,185 --> 00:07:44,464
Some things actually fit all sectors of TR, and
that's even best for us from an investment
125
00:07:44,464 --> 00:07:44,944
perspective.
126
00:07:44,944 --> 00:07:48,944
If we can help the startup in all of our
categories, that's even better.
127
00:07:49,024 --> 00:07:51,824
Yeah, I could see that sort of cross industry
focus for sure.
128
00:07:51,824 --> 00:07:55,940
And as you think about investments versus
acquisitions, can you talk a little bit about
129
00:07:56,100 --> 00:08:03,139
how you guys evaluate sort of and maybe how TR
Ventures collaborates with the M and A team and
130
00:08:03,139 --> 00:08:08,455
sort of how you decide or how you think through
whether something's a significant venture
131
00:08:08,455 --> 00:08:12,134
investment opportunity versus an acquisition
opportunity?
132
00:08:12,615 --> 00:08:13,335
Yeah.
133
00:08:13,415 --> 00:08:15,495
So we are actually under the same umbrella.
134
00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:17,254
We're all under strategy, right?
135
00:08:17,254 --> 00:08:26,520
So the I would say the Ventures team is not
really here to build the pipeline for M and A,
136
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,079
but it is a natural occurrence, right?
137
00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:32,840
We've acquired one of the companies we've
invested in a couple of years ago called
138
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:33,480
Materia.
139
00:08:35,264 --> 00:08:41,345
If it's a company that fits our strategy and
where we're going long term, it's obviously
140
00:08:41,345 --> 00:08:44,625
something we would love to invest in, right?
141
00:08:45,745 --> 00:08:51,160
But it's definitely not we don't have a venture
fund to build an M and pipeline, right?
142
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,320
It would be a natural occurrence occasionally
to happen.
143
00:08:55,399 --> 00:09:02,120
I don't see us acquiring more than 10% to 15%
of our portfolio, so it's not a huge focus.
144
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:09,084
That said, we work pretty closely with M and A
as far as when they're looking at tech and want
145
00:09:09,084 --> 00:09:15,245
to, you know, acquire, we'll work with them
from a valuation perspective.
146
00:09:15,245 --> 00:09:16,365
What else is in the market?
147
00:09:16,365 --> 00:09:17,485
Who are the competitors?
148
00:09:17,485 --> 00:09:22,129
Are there smaller companies out there we should
be looking at in addition to what we're already
149
00:09:22,129 --> 00:09:22,929
looking at?
150
00:09:23,009 --> 00:09:30,769
So we'll get involved from a, you know,
strategy perspective, but you know it's a
151
00:09:30,769 --> 00:09:34,049
different focus for us on the M and A side.
152
00:09:33,995 --> 00:09:37,914
And I think publicly we've said we have
$10,000,000,000 on our balance sheet for
153
00:09:37,995 --> 00:09:42,315
investment in M and A, so we're both taking off
the balance sheet, right?
154
00:09:42,315 --> 00:09:48,909
Our venture fund takes off the balance sheet,
as does our M and A team, so similar process,
155
00:09:48,909 --> 00:09:51,470
but they're writing bigger checks.
156
00:09:51,789 --> 00:09:53,070
Yeah, exactly.
157
00:09:53,230 --> 00:09:55,309
Okay, so that's the exit side of things.
158
00:09:55,309 --> 00:10:00,589
Let's go back and talk about sort of the stage
of TR Ventures sort of focus.
159
00:10:00,589 --> 00:10:04,565
I moderated a panel on behalf of the NVCA.
160
00:10:04,725 --> 00:10:08,245
This is as we were starting Impact Venture
Capital in 2016.
161
00:10:08,325 --> 00:10:12,725
And it was a roomful of corporate venture
groups who had historically participated in
162
00:10:12,725 --> 00:10:14,725
Series C and Series D rounds of financing.
163
00:10:15,029 --> 00:10:19,350
And the buzz and the discussion was, hey, we're
all going to start going earlier stage and
164
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:23,190
looking at series B and series A and even
making some seed investments and even
165
00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:25,830
occasionally taking board seats.
166
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:32,215
And so it was a movement back then that I've
seen now play out over the last six, eight, ten
167
00:10:32,215 --> 00:10:33,014
years now.
168
00:10:34,855 --> 00:10:39,894
I'm wondering how do you think about sort of
stage and your role there?
169
00:10:39,894 --> 00:10:41,654
Is it seed in series A?
170
00:10:41,654 --> 00:10:45,174
Where are you focused at when typically get
involved with these companies?
171
00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:48,079
Yeah, I would say 80% is Series A.
172
00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:55,360
We'll occasionally do a B, if we can stretch
and get into that round and it makes sense for
173
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,799
us, and we'll occasionally do a C if it's a
really good fit.
174
00:10:59,144 --> 00:11:03,945
We usually do seed post revenue, which means
they have, you know, some revenue product
175
00:11:03,945 --> 00:11:11,945
market fit, and it, we can, get, you know, into
the deal and be able to help them, right?
176
00:11:11,945 --> 00:11:13,545
Again, we don't like to bury companies.
177
00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:19,360
And we're also fine getting into a seed and
helping them more with product or engineering,
178
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:19,600
right?
179
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,159
And areas that we can help them that aren't
going to, you know, take up their time on go to
180
00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:27,279
market quite yet because they may not be quite
ready for that.
181
00:11:27,279 --> 00:11:30,215
But I would say majority of what we're doing is
Series A.
182
00:11:30,855 --> 00:11:37,575
We're trying to look at horizon three, which is
why we will look at seed and mostly Series A
183
00:11:37,575 --> 00:11:42,215
because, you know, our product teams and our
engineering teams are focused on the here and
184
00:11:42,215 --> 00:11:44,455
now and in a pretty solid roadmap.
185
00:11:44,879 --> 00:11:50,720
And so for me, that's, you know, the old
McKinsey horizon one, two, three, you know,
186
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,519
they're really looking at horizon one and two,
right?
187
00:11:53,519 --> 00:11:54,399
Excuse me.
188
00:11:54,399 --> 00:11:56,240
Yeah, one and two, sorry.
189
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,920
We're looking at three, right?
190
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,320
We're out there trying to say, what is next?
191
00:12:00,284 --> 00:12:06,044
Next, What is a bet we can take to make sure
that we're looking at next gen tech and where
192
00:12:06,044 --> 00:12:10,764
the market is going, so our customers can take
advantage of that as well.
193
00:12:10,764 --> 00:12:16,539
So we're trying to be the eyes and ears for TR,
but we're also trying to bring that signal into
194
00:12:16,539 --> 00:12:18,059
our customer base as well.
195
00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:20,059
Makes great sense.
196
00:12:20,059 --> 00:12:24,059
I mean, maybe you could expand a little bit
more on the value beyond capital, because what
197
00:12:24,059 --> 00:12:30,785
I've seen from Tiara Ventures is market
insight, obviously, initial early stage
198
00:12:30,785 --> 00:12:31,665
capital.
199
00:12:32,384 --> 00:12:34,705
You can help with co development projects.
200
00:12:34,945 --> 00:12:40,589
You can certainly provide efficient access to
customers, particularly in the legal and
201
00:12:40,589 --> 00:12:42,589
accounting and compliance areas.
202
00:12:42,589 --> 00:12:46,029
Those are some of the ways that I've seen you
add value beyond capital.
203
00:12:46,029 --> 00:12:48,269
Did I get them all, or are there other things
that you focus on?
204
00:12:48,269 --> 00:12:49,870
I think you did hit them all.
205
00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:51,870
We can also be a customer, I would say.
206
00:12:52,455 --> 00:12:58,055
So in some cases, like we have two of our
portfolio companies, one out of London called
207
00:12:58,055 --> 00:13:02,295
Detectd, which does know your business, KYB.
208
00:13:02,535 --> 00:13:06,615
A lot of people know KYC, that's more of a know
your customer, right?
209
00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:12,940
So these are for business customers to be able
to check who they are to verify them.
210
00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:17,580
We actually need it for ourselves, like we sell
to corporates all over, right?
211
00:13:17,580 --> 00:13:22,654
And we want to be able to verify those law
firms, those corporations, those mid to small
212
00:13:22,654 --> 00:13:27,934
businesses that we're selling either our tax
products to, our legal products to, or, you
213
00:13:27,934 --> 00:13:29,774
know, risk and fraud, right?
214
00:13:29,774 --> 00:13:39,160
So they're fantastic company, they have a great
KYB AI solution, we can certainly introduce
215
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,120
that solution to our customers, and we have,
but we also use it internally to check our own
216
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,320
customer base, right?
217
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:51,375
So it's a good example of us, you know, trying
to find them customers through partnerships,
218
00:13:51,375 --> 00:13:55,934
but also using the product and being a
reference for other corporates on how to use a
219
00:13:55,934 --> 00:13:57,134
KYB solution.
220
00:13:57,855 --> 00:13:59,294
So that's the only one you missed.
221
00:13:59,294 --> 00:14:00,975
We can be a customer in many cases.
222
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:02,279
Very helpful.
223
00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:03,320
Yeah, that's very helpful.
224
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,679
So, okay, let's you were showcased in a global
corporate venturing article, and I think quoted
225
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,200
as saying, you know, corporate venture funds
should try and sort of run themselves like a
226
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,960
traditional VC.
227
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:20,675
And I think, you know, Intel has sort of
followed your advice and now spitting out their
228
00:14:20,675 --> 00:14:21,715
corporate venture group.
229
00:14:21,715 --> 00:14:24,434
M12 sort of spun out and rebranded.
230
00:14:24,434 --> 00:14:27,634
I think the Intel Venture Group is going to
rebrand.
231
00:14:27,795 --> 00:14:31,235
So they are sort of more and more operating
like independent VCs.
232
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:35,670
There anything you would highlight with regard
to how you think about sort of corporate
233
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:39,990
venture groups and operating as a key
stakeholder in the venture ecosystem?
234
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:40,950
Yeah.
235
00:14:40,950 --> 00:14:49,745
I mean, I think if we have the same, you know,
same objective as all the large VC funds which
236
00:14:49,745 --> 00:14:51,504
is to return the fund, right?
237
00:14:51,504 --> 00:14:54,625
Get 5x, 10x, 20x.
238
00:14:54,865 --> 00:15:01,740
If that's our objective, we're going to go at
the market and go after opportunities the same
239
00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:04,860
way they do, right, which is for financial
return.
240
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:12,539
So first and foremost, we want to return the
fund and we want to be in the top 25% quartile,
241
00:15:12,539 --> 00:15:13,659
right, the top quarter.
242
00:15:13,659 --> 00:15:15,845
So I don't know what that is of late.
243
00:15:15,845 --> 00:15:22,004
It was, you know, 2.5x and above was in the top
25% quartile.
244
00:15:22,085 --> 00:15:23,764
That's always our goal, right?
245
00:15:23,764 --> 00:15:30,679
So our opinion, and it will be, is to make the
best financial investments because ultimately
246
00:15:30,839 --> 00:15:35,799
those are going to be the best technology
companies as well for our customers, right?
247
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:42,360
We want to invest in companies that we can
recommend to our customers, and those companies
248
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,720
have to be doing well, right?
249
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,664
We don't want to introduce a start up to them
that really is, you know, not gonna make it.
250
00:15:48,825 --> 00:15:50,745
That wouldn't be good for us or for them.
251
00:15:50,745 --> 00:15:56,985
So we really have pretty strict financial
guidelines and I think they're identical or
252
00:15:56,985 --> 00:16:02,710
similar to most VCs, you know, that we work
with out there.
253
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:07,910
We have the same criteria, so it puts us all on
the same page of what we're looking for and how
254
00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:11,670
we're going to go after the market and how
we're going to get those returns that we need.
255
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:15,750
I don't think they're going to keep us around
forever if we lose all their money, right?
256
00:16:16,065 --> 00:16:17,825
As my CFO would say.
257
00:16:19,184 --> 00:16:21,024
Self sustainability is an important thing.
258
00:16:22,465 --> 00:16:24,784
You've got an evergreen fund, right?
259
00:16:24,784 --> 00:16:27,825
That's the structure at Tiara Ventures.
260
00:16:27,825 --> 00:16:29,585
And maybe you could talk a little bit about
that.
261
00:16:29,585 --> 00:16:33,430
And then are you just investing in companies?
262
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:34,870
Do you invest into SPVs?
263
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:37,990
Do you invest into other VC funds to get access
to deal flow?
264
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:42,629
Maybe you could talk about the evergreen
structure and then sort of the deployment
265
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:44,024
strategy to add.
266
00:16:44,024 --> 00:16:44,585
Yeah.
267
00:16:45,065 --> 00:16:49,705
And I would say our definition of Evergreen may
not be the same as some others.
268
00:16:49,865 --> 00:16:52,184
Our intent is to be an Evergreen Fund.
269
00:16:52,184 --> 00:16:53,304
We're still early, right?
270
00:16:53,304 --> 00:16:56,504
We're in year four, so we certainly haven't
returned the fund yet.
271
00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:02,879
We refreshed the fund, so from an Evergreen
perspective, you know, we look at it every
272
00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:07,599
three years to refresh the fund, but the
intention is that, you know, in that seven to
273
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:14,255
ten year period, we will return the funds on,
you know, a regular basis as well, right?
274
00:17:14,255 --> 00:17:21,694
So it will become a self sustaining group
within the organization.
275
00:17:21,695 --> 00:17:28,539
Again, we're investing so early that our intent
to return would be, you know, in that same time
276
00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:34,460
frame that seed and Series A funds return,
which is at the moment ten years.
277
00:17:35,345 --> 00:17:36,944
And so that's our intention.
278
00:17:38,224 --> 00:17:45,345
We do, with our latest fund, we are taking
positions in other funds, very small positions,
279
00:17:45,585 --> 00:17:48,224
and it's geographic or vertical focused.
280
00:17:48,224 --> 00:17:54,660
So if you think of we have a big focus in
LatAm, we have a big office in Sao Paulo, we
281
00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:57,700
were talking earlier about the Kaufman Fellows
being there this week.
282
00:17:58,019 --> 00:18:06,244
We have a big payroll and tax operation, a
solution down there called Dominio, where we do
283
00:18:06,244 --> 00:18:11,044
the tax and payroll for about 70% of small
businesses in Brazil.
284
00:18:11,445 --> 00:18:18,700
We also have a big legal product and solution
for law firms and corporate legal departments,
285
00:18:18,779 --> 00:18:21,179
just like we do in North America.
286
00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:26,859
And so if you look at it from that perspective,
we don't have staff in Brazil, right, looking
287
00:18:26,859 --> 00:18:28,619
at every deal that's out there.
288
00:18:28,619 --> 00:18:33,464
So can we take a position in an early stage
fund, a seed stage fund, that can then share
289
00:18:33,464 --> 00:18:38,424
that information with us so that we can make
some joint investments when it comes to a
290
00:18:38,424 --> 00:18:39,865
Series A, right?
291
00:18:40,025 --> 00:18:45,545
Same thing like with the legal tech fund here
in North America, only focused on legal tech.
292
00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:51,049
They're looking at every legal tech company
that is out there.
293
00:18:51,850 --> 00:18:56,569
They can share deal flow with us, what the
market is, what valuations are on legal tech,
294
00:18:57,369 --> 00:18:59,875
and an M and A world as well.
295
00:18:59,875 --> 00:19:02,434
So those are the kinds of things we're looking
at.
296
00:19:02,434 --> 00:19:07,315
Same thing in Southeast Asia, where we'll take
an LP position there as well.
297
00:19:07,315 --> 00:19:12,914
And we'll add to those to give us more
geographic post coverage, as well as vertical
298
00:19:12,914 --> 00:19:13,315
coverage.
299
00:19:14,299 --> 00:19:14,779
I see.
300
00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:15,579
I understand.
301
00:19:15,579 --> 00:19:17,019
Okay, that's helpful.
302
00:19:17,339 --> 00:19:24,859
Speaking of legal tech, is it true that the
industry sector of law firms is sort of
303
00:19:24,859 --> 00:19:29,419
adopting generative AI and those tools faster
than sort of any other industry sector?
304
00:19:29,419 --> 00:19:33,954
Maybe you could, you have such a lens into that
particular customer segment.
305
00:19:34,034 --> 00:19:40,755
Maybe you could talk a little bit about how AI
is influencing or impacting law firm segment of
306
00:19:40,755 --> 00:19:41,714
customers out there.
307
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,680
You know, it is really interesting because I
would say three years ago we co sponsored the
308
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:54,440
Legal Tech Fund's first conference in Miami and
they had, you know, maybe 10, you know,
309
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:54,839
startups.
310
00:19:55,565 --> 00:19:59,884
One of them was a company, one of our first
legal tech investments was a company called
311
00:19:59,884 --> 00:20:03,724
Spellbook, which has been on fire from the get
go.
312
00:20:03,724 --> 00:20:07,484
It's fantastic technology in the legal tech
world.
313
00:20:07,724 --> 00:20:13,929
But know, they would say maybe 10% of law firms
were using it or testing it or you know they
314
00:20:13,929 --> 00:20:21,129
had one or two people in the firm that were
looking at it and that was December of twenty
315
00:20:21,289 --> 00:20:22,329
twenty two.
316
00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:30,825
And you look at it two years later and it's
like most law firms have and are using AI every
317
00:20:30,825 --> 00:20:32,024
single day, right?
318
00:20:32,024 --> 00:20:35,065
Is it every single partner, every single person
in the firm?
319
00:20:35,144 --> 00:20:41,660
No, but I would say as a percentage it's
significantly higher than one or two people,
320
00:20:41,660 --> 00:20:41,980
right?
321
00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:49,019
So, I would say legal is really adopting it
much faster than people predicted, in my
322
00:20:49,019 --> 00:20:52,380
opinion, and tax is right there behind.
323
00:20:52,684 --> 00:20:57,005
And there's two reasons why legal and tax AI is
so applicable.
324
00:20:57,005 --> 00:21:04,845
One, you have the content and the data sources
to create models in legal for verticalization
325
00:21:04,845 --> 00:21:14,750
of solutions, whether it's debt transactions or
patent or, you know, litigation, plaintiff type
326
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:20,990
work, those solutions can be very very targeted
and very effective at what they do, right,
327
00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:24,364
sitting beside a lawyer and having a lawyer use
it.
328
00:21:24,365 --> 00:21:25,565
Same thing in tax, right?
329
00:21:25,565 --> 00:21:29,164
There's just not enough accountants, there's
not enough people to do the work, right?
330
00:21:29,164 --> 00:21:36,285
Can you apply, you know, tax code and a tax
engine and create agentic solutions that will
331
00:21:36,285 --> 00:21:37,919
do your taxes, right?
332
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:39,519
Yes, the answer is yes.
333
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:47,119
And so you're seeing great technology being
applied in those categories, and used every day
334
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:48,399
right now, right?
335
00:21:48,399 --> 00:21:51,039
And so, I don't think that's going to change.
336
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:52,720
It's only going to continue to increase.
337
00:21:53,825 --> 00:21:57,984
And there's more and more tech, you know, kind
of startups happening in both of those
338
00:21:57,984 --> 00:21:59,984
categories, seems like daily.
339
00:21:59,984 --> 00:22:03,024
So, yeah, I think there's a lot of room to
grow.
340
00:22:04,945 --> 00:22:07,105
I think all the firms are using the tech right
now.
341
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:12,230
Extraordinary demand in the legal sector, the
accounting sector, other compliance areas that
342
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:13,669
you're focused on without a doubt.
343
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:19,269
As you see that customer demand from your own
customer base and you turn your attention to
344
00:22:19,269 --> 00:22:25,025
startups and sort of deal flow, are there
systematic deal flow strategies that you have?
345
00:22:25,025 --> 00:22:26,065
Are there tactics?
346
00:22:26,304 --> 00:22:30,384
Maybe just talk a little bit about where you're
sourcing most of your opportunities from.
347
00:22:30,464 --> 00:22:31,664
Is it professional networks?
348
00:22:31,664 --> 00:22:33,904
Is it attendance at events?
349
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,440
How are you sourcing deals these days?
350
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,080
We definitely have good relationships with a
lot of VCs.
351
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:48,799
I'd say most of the large VCs and other,
especially if they're in our categories, like
352
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:53,575
they're looking at the same segments we're
looking at, we have pretty detailed thesis
353
00:22:53,575 --> 00:22:55,815
under each category of what we need.
354
00:22:56,134 --> 00:22:58,055
We don't invest in competitive tech.
355
00:22:58,055 --> 00:23:01,815
It's kind of one of our things, like we don't
want our company to compete against the
356
00:23:01,815 --> 00:23:03,095
startups that we're investing in.
357
00:23:03,569 --> 00:23:09,089
It may happen over time with roadmaps and
things changing, so we can't promise that
358
00:23:09,089 --> 00:23:11,250
forever, but that's the intent, right?
359
00:23:11,250 --> 00:23:13,249
We're not going to invest in competitive tech.
360
00:23:13,329 --> 00:23:19,944
So our thesis is anything that our customers
may need that is adjacent to the technology we
361
00:23:20,105 --> 00:23:21,544
already offer them.
362
00:23:21,784 --> 00:23:26,424
So we try to really dig in in those categories.
363
00:23:27,144 --> 00:23:32,059
You know, in the case of Materia, which we
ended up acquiring, they were a seed stage
364
00:23:32,059 --> 00:23:42,059
company that had amazing, an amazing kind of
MVP, and really came in, gave us a demo, and we
365
00:23:42,059 --> 00:23:46,140
started talking with them about, you know, our
product team started talking with them about,
366
00:23:46,384 --> 00:23:50,144
hey, what if you did this or what about this
and this is what customers are asking.
367
00:23:50,705 --> 00:23:55,505
So there was a lot of, insight into what they
were building.
368
00:23:56,305 --> 00:24:00,144
Hence, you know, we really loved what they
ended up building and offered it to our
369
00:24:00,144 --> 00:24:00,705
customers.
370
00:24:00,705 --> 00:24:04,779
Our customers loved it, and now they're part of
our family.
371
00:24:04,779 --> 00:24:11,740
But, yeah, I would say, you know, overall we
have pretty deep thesis and we share those
372
00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:13,900
thesis with other VCs.
373
00:24:14,204 --> 00:24:19,244
So the good news is VCs they get to know us and
they want to look at legal tech or tax or
374
00:24:19,404 --> 00:24:22,204
indirect tax direct tax from a corporate level.
375
00:24:22,524 --> 00:24:25,565
We can help them, right?
376
00:24:25,565 --> 00:24:30,710
We've great great engineering and product
people that help us diligence products.
377
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:35,910
We've looked at a lot so we know the space
well, if they bring somebody to us we can
378
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:39,509
quickly give them an opinion of what's missing,
what's not missing.
379
00:24:40,045 --> 00:24:44,204
So we've tried to develop these partnerships
where they're trusted and they know we have the
380
00:24:44,204 --> 00:24:47,964
right expertise to help in the categories that
we look at.
381
00:24:48,125 --> 00:24:52,845
Yeah, beyond the product expertise, it's clear
that you provide efficient access to channels
382
00:24:53,769 --> 00:24:57,369
customers that can be really valuable for a
startup in the early stages.
383
00:24:57,369 --> 00:25:03,130
And so having you on the cap table early, once
the company's got a minimum viable product and
384
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:07,690
product market fit, to be able to extend out in
that channel is very easy to see.
385
00:25:08,625 --> 00:25:14,224
Circling back on a comment that you made
earlier about sort of self sustainability of TR
386
00:25:14,224 --> 00:25:19,424
Ventures and the importance of financial
returns, do you complement that with any level
387
00:25:19,424 --> 00:25:23,184
of sort of strategic focus or any mission
driven activities?
388
00:25:23,184 --> 00:25:28,839
I'm finding that in addition to financial
returns, there's also a strategic element to
389
00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:31,880
the decision making around investments from
many corporate venture groups.
390
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,039
And then on occasion, they're also thinking
about the sustainable development goals or
391
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:36,440
other things.
392
00:25:36,615 --> 00:25:40,694
Are you purely financially driven or are you
looking at other strategy elements or mission
393
00:25:40,694 --> 00:25:41,654
driven elements?
394
00:25:41,894 --> 00:25:46,375
Yeah, mean, would say we look at all three, but
we first and foremost, the financials have to
395
00:25:46,375 --> 00:25:47,255
make sense to us.
396
00:25:47,255 --> 00:25:50,535
And then second, you know, we don't invest in
what we don't know, right?
397
00:25:50,535 --> 00:25:55,970
So if we can't diligence it with good
engineering or good product people, it's not in
398
00:25:55,970 --> 00:26:01,970
a category we understand, we're not going to
look at it because it doesn't make sense for
399
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:02,450
us, right?
400
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:06,210
Because we can't do the diligence we need to
make the decision.
401
00:26:06,224 --> 00:26:11,345
So ultimately, we're investing in what we know,
which is strategic, right?
402
00:26:11,345 --> 00:26:14,065
And then we don't invest in overlapping tech,
right?
403
00:26:14,304 --> 00:26:21,029
There may be little elements that we do or they
do that we'll see occasionally and we figure
404
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:23,669
out a way to work with them to take them into
our customers.
405
00:26:23,910 --> 00:26:28,710
But overall, we we try to align with things we
don't have that our customers need.
406
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:30,549
So ultimately it is strategic.
407
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:31,429
Yeah.
408
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:36,974
So most, sounds like many of your deals are
sourced through the broader venture community
409
00:26:36,974 --> 00:26:38,734
and other professional relationships you have.
410
00:26:38,734 --> 00:26:43,934
When entrepreneurs knock on your door directly,
are there certain sort of characteristics,
411
00:26:44,414 --> 00:26:48,494
qualities in the company or in the entrepreneur
that you're looking for?
412
00:26:48,734 --> 00:26:53,990
Maybe just describe sort of who sort of breaks
through the noise and gets your attention
413
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:58,150
because of something about their company or
about the entrepreneur specifically.
414
00:26:58,549 --> 00:27:03,350
Yeah, if they understand what we sell to our
customers and they can explain where they fit,
415
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:07,565
you know, hey, you guys sell to lawyers or hey,
you guys sell to accountants or this is a
416
00:27:07,565 --> 00:27:13,724
corporate tax program or this fits, you know,
the general counsel and, you know, mid sized
417
00:27:13,724 --> 00:27:14,444
companies.
418
00:27:14,845 --> 00:27:18,205
They know what we do and where we can bring
them in.
419
00:27:18,205 --> 00:27:22,809
If they know our customer base and it fits
where they want to go, that's usually a pretty
420
00:27:22,809 --> 00:27:25,049
good fit if they can explain it to me.
421
00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:26,970
That's number one.
422
00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:29,769
You know, second time founders are always
great, you know.
423
00:27:31,529 --> 00:27:32,889
It's not perfect, right?
424
00:27:32,889 --> 00:27:38,154
You don't always hit multiple home runs, but it
does help that somebody's got a startup
425
00:27:38,154 --> 00:27:44,554
background, at least from my perspective,
because they understand what it takes to run a
426
00:27:44,795 --> 00:27:45,195
startup.
427
00:27:45,195 --> 00:27:46,234
So that's important.
428
00:27:46,394 --> 00:27:51,515
But again, in our categories, if they know what
we're doing, and they tell me where their
429
00:27:51,515 --> 00:27:53,899
product fits, that's usually what I need.
430
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:55,259
They've done their homework.
431
00:27:55,259 --> 00:28:00,059
They understand who your customer is and, how
they can add value with your existing line of
432
00:28:00,059 --> 00:28:00,460
products.
433
00:28:00,460 --> 00:28:02,700
Yeah, it makes great sense to me.
434
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:10,734
Outside of sort of exchanging market insight
with the traditional venture community and
435
00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:15,534
potentially sourcing deals from them and co
investing, any other ways you're collaborating
436
00:28:15,534 --> 00:28:20,049
with the traditional venture community or
anything that you would suggest or anything
437
00:28:20,049 --> 00:28:25,169
you'd like to do with the traditional venture
community that could add value to what you're
438
00:28:25,169 --> 00:28:26,769
trying to accomplish within TR?
439
00:28:27,329 --> 00:28:27,889
Yeah.
440
00:28:27,889 --> 00:28:34,455
I mean, I would say we are a member of the
National Venture Capital Association, also the
441
00:28:34,455 --> 00:28:39,494
Global Corporate Venturing, so we do try to
attend those events when possible.
442
00:28:39,494 --> 00:28:42,934
There's only eight of us, so, you know, we
spread ourselves then.
443
00:28:42,934 --> 00:28:48,160
We do attend a lot of conferences, particularly
in the category of, you know, tax, right?
444
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,680
So Money twenty twenty and, you know, legal
tech conferences, so that we can, you know, see
445
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,799
what's in market.
446
00:28:55,599 --> 00:29:02,414
So that's where we find founders and we try to
meet with as many investors as we can to make
447
00:29:02,414 --> 00:29:05,534
sure they understand what we're looking at and
where we can syndicate deals.
448
00:29:05,855 --> 00:29:10,894
So that's I think that it's working for us
right now and I think that will remain our
449
00:29:10,894 --> 00:29:13,134
strategy to get our brand out there.
450
00:29:13,134 --> 00:29:17,839
We're still only three and a half years old, so
still relatively new in market.
451
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:24,799
Hopefully people have heard of us more by now
than they did three years ago, and we'll keep
452
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:26,160
trying to get the brand out there.
453
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,599
I think you've done a great job of elevating
your brand, and I certainly have run into
454
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:33,214
entrepreneurs that are very familiar with TIER
Ventures and with you.
455
00:29:33,214 --> 00:29:36,014
So I think you're doing a great job of
elevating your brand.
456
00:29:36,335 --> 00:29:44,509
As you look forward, any particular industry
sectors or problem sets that, you find
457
00:29:44,509 --> 00:29:49,150
intriguing if you look out sort of three to
five years for areas of innovation that you
458
00:29:49,150 --> 00:29:55,789
think, are either personally interesting or
highly relevant to what you're doing at, at TR?
459
00:29:55,789 --> 00:30:00,865
Is there any one or two things that you would
highlight for the entrepreneurs out there that
460
00:30:00,865 --> 00:30:03,504
are thinking about bringing innovation to you
and to TR?
461
00:30:03,984 --> 00:30:04,384
Yeah.
462
00:30:04,384 --> 00:30:10,625
I mean, lately I've been looking a lot at
corporate tax, right, on that side and what's
463
00:30:10,625 --> 00:30:11,024
changing.
464
00:30:11,024 --> 00:30:12,865
There's a lot of laws changing globally.
465
00:30:13,420 --> 00:30:17,500
And we bought a company in Sweden called Pagero
that does e invoicing.
466
00:30:17,579 --> 00:30:25,820
So if you think about cross border payments,
taxes, and what's happening globally, it's
467
00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:28,220
really complex and it's changing pretty
quickly.
468
00:30:29,225 --> 00:30:34,184
And so I've been trying to understand what's
happening in that market and solutions that
469
00:30:34,184 --> 00:30:37,304
work globally for our customers.
470
00:30:37,945 --> 00:30:45,460
So that's been probably it's super complex, so
anybody who's going to go try to fix it is not
471
00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:50,420
going to be able to fix all of it, but, you
know, some of it, if you piece it out, even the
472
00:30:50,420 --> 00:30:55,619
pieces are pretty big from a total addressable
market, so we've been looking at that quite a
473
00:30:55,619 --> 00:31:01,475
bit, in addition to everything you can do in
legal and tax because if you think of our
474
00:31:01,475 --> 00:31:04,515
markets Southeast Asia, you know, Brazil.
475
00:31:04,515 --> 00:31:11,075
Brazil probably has more complex tax codes than
The US, as crazy as that is, and also probably
476
00:31:11,075 --> 00:31:13,730
more litigation than The U.
477
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:14,049
S.
478
00:31:14,049 --> 00:31:19,250
So it's LatAm is a just high growth area as a
whole.
479
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:22,609
So we've been looking a lot at a lot of fintech
in that space as well.
480
00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:24,049
Interesting.
481
00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:24,690
Okay.
482
00:31:25,170 --> 00:31:28,294
All right, we're going to switch to the rapid
fire portion of the Q and A.
483
00:31:28,294 --> 00:31:30,534
Just a couple of quick questions for you as we
wrap up here.
484
00:31:30,534 --> 00:31:36,774
How do you prepare yourself for professional
excellence as a sort of a high performing CDC?
485
00:31:36,775 --> 00:31:40,849
What are the kinds of things that you find
yourself doing to stay in touch with market
486
00:31:40,849 --> 00:31:46,210
trends or to, you know, ensure that the
internal culture with your team there?
487
00:31:46,210 --> 00:31:49,730
Anything that you would highlight as it relates
to sort of professional development or
488
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:50,529
professional excellence?
489
00:31:51,825 --> 00:31:56,065
You know I would say we do a lot of this rapid
fire with our team, right?
490
00:31:56,065 --> 00:32:02,625
Our team meetings just trying to go through
pipeline for sourcing in a very quick way to
491
00:32:02,625 --> 00:32:07,430
make sure we're looking at everything, do we
need to take a second look, and we try to pass
492
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:08,230
fast, right?
493
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:13,990
So I would say one of the things we try to do
in venture, we're not perfect, but we try to
494
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:17,990
look at it, look at it quickly, and make sure
the founder knows why we're not going to
495
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:21,335
invest, or if we need to look at it in a year,
right?
496
00:32:21,335 --> 00:32:23,174
It may be too early stage for us.
497
00:32:23,335 --> 00:32:27,575
So we try to keep that premise around at all
times.
498
00:32:27,575 --> 00:32:29,734
If we're going to pass, let's pass fast, right?
499
00:32:29,734 --> 00:32:33,575
So they can move on and they can go raise the
round or do what they need to do quickly.
500
00:32:34,294 --> 00:32:41,549
But move quickly, right, is probably the most
important thing in VC and it remains the most
501
00:32:41,549 --> 00:32:42,829
important thing, I think.
502
00:32:43,149 --> 00:32:48,589
Operating at the speed of a startup, right, and
being able to mirror that is difficult, even
503
00:32:48,589 --> 00:32:52,615
for traditional VCs at times, to get through
your proper due diligence.
504
00:32:52,615 --> 00:32:54,375
But I think that's an astute comment.
505
00:32:54,695 --> 00:32:56,454
That makes great sense to me.
506
00:32:56,695 --> 00:33:03,015
Favorite blog or podcast or publication, that
sort of keeps you with the market insight that
507
00:33:03,015 --> 00:33:04,134
you need to make great decisions?
508
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:06,230
Oh, don't know if market insight.
509
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:06,710
Let's see.
510
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:11,429
Podcast, I would say, it has nothing to do with
the market, but I really like it.
511
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:16,549
The two Kelsey brothers on New Heights and all
the sports they talk about, I tend to listen to
512
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:20,355
that when I run because I think that they are
hilarious.
513
00:33:21,154 --> 00:33:23,794
So I don't know if that gives me any market
insight.
514
00:33:23,955 --> 00:33:30,755
You know, I don't I do listen to a lot of
venture capitalists and their opinions, and I
515
00:33:30,755 --> 00:33:36,529
read a lot, But I would say as far as podcasts,
I probably listen to more fun podcasts than I
516
00:33:36,529 --> 00:33:38,609
do venture capital podcasts.
517
00:33:39,250 --> 00:33:44,964
I got to follow your lead there, because I end
up sort of on the grind listening to these
518
00:33:44,964 --> 00:33:48,724
technical podcasts when I'm running or riding a
bike.
519
00:33:48,724 --> 00:33:51,284
I think I need to chill out a little bit.
520
00:33:51,525 --> 00:33:53,284
Yes, unspoken a little bit.
521
00:33:53,284 --> 00:33:53,845
Yep.
522
00:33:54,085 --> 00:33:56,244
It helps you go to work with a better attitude.
523
00:33:58,909 --> 00:34:01,069
Okay, favorite restaurant, last question.
524
00:34:01,149 --> 00:34:02,429
Favorite restaurant in Dallas.
525
00:34:02,429 --> 00:34:06,109
So last time I was there, went to Nobu, which
was just like a world class meal.
526
00:34:06,109 --> 00:34:08,989
Was there with my family, so I had the right
crowd with me.
527
00:34:09,150 --> 00:34:12,750
I love Nobu, but I'm looking for sort of in the
nooks and crannies of Dallas.
528
00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:14,494
What's the gem from your perspective?
529
00:34:14,494 --> 00:34:16,735
Well, would have to say Tex Mex, right?
530
00:34:16,735 --> 00:34:17,855
Because that's what we're known for.
531
00:34:17,855 --> 00:34:21,295
I would say Dose Mesas is fantastic.
532
00:34:21,295 --> 00:34:26,574
A little less fancy might be Tupanamba, which
is my daughter would say Dose Mesas.
533
00:34:26,574 --> 00:34:27,775
I would say Tupanamba.
534
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,800
I'm a big Tex Mex fan, and it's whoever makes
the better margarita, and they both make a
535
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:33,680
great margarita.
536
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,280
So I like both of those.
537
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:36,640
All right.
538
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,480
I'll give them a shot in my next visit.
539
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,804
On behalf of the team at Impact Venture Capital
and the Kaufman Fellows, thanks to Tamara
540
00:34:42,804 --> 00:34:44,644
Steffens for spending a little bit of time with
us.
541
00:34:44,644 --> 00:34:45,525
Thanks, Tamara.
542
00:34:45,844 --> 00:34:46,565
You're welcome.
543
00:34:46,565 --> 00:34:47,445
Thanks, guys.
544
00:34:48,085 --> 00:34:49,605
That's a wrap for this week's show.
