S6 E11 Spring Into Something Creative
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: [00:00:00] Welcome to Holy Shenanigans podcast. I'm your muse, Tara Lamont Eastman, a pastor, podcaster, and practitioner of Holy Shenanigans. In my corner of the world, we've just passed spring forward and are celebrating St. Patrick's Day and almost. Almost spring. We're beginning to see signs of spring all around us.
Crocuses are peeking out of the ground. The temperature is finally warming up. And I am anticipating the season of newness just around the corner. But as I wait for true spring, I've been thinking a lot about the flowers just peeking from the ground. They continue to grow through the still cold ground.
Faithful to their art of blooming as they seek the warmth of the sun. These little [00:01:00] flowers have been engaged in creative work for some time now. Before we could see them above the surface, those little seeds remained committed to their creative task. They were created to be creative and do the hard work of blooming in due time.
Creative efforts take time, energy, and practice, Dawn't they? What else is needed for creative efforts? You! This week at Holy Shenanigans Podcast, I am delighted to share a conversation with the hosts of Created creative podcast, Dawn Trautman, actor, singer, producer, life coach, and podcaster. And Ruth Hetland, pastor creator of Consecrate Box subscription Service yoga practitioner.
And podcaster Ruth and [00:02:00] Dawn both individually and separately have been guests here on previous episodes of HSP. And they are two of the most enthusiastically creative people I know. They are makers who celebrate and encourage each and every person to know that they are created creative.
It's my joy to invite you to listen in on this conversation about creativity, and I hope that my own story will affirm the fact that you too are created creative in your own beautiful way. So here's Dawn and Ruth. Now,
Pastor Ruth Hetland: oh, it's so nice to see you. How are you today?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I am good. I have to tell you that I just had contractors leave my house. And they were staining, so it's a little bit aromatic.
Dawn Trautman: Are you going alter your brain
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Dawn't know. [00:03:00] It's one degree, and I propped the screen door open so that I can be coherent in our conversation today.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: If you start to not make any sense, we'll tell you to please leave the room and go.
Get some fresh air.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Dawn and I had the joy of being on your podcast not long ago. Yes. That was really fun.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you so much for visiting.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: We're like when people used to watch must see TV, and they'd have a night where the characters are interacting with the others from that night.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It's like a crossover from one
Dawn Trautman: Crossover episode. There we go. I knew there was a word, and it was, uh, I'm not even sitting with paint fumes, and I can't come up with my nouns.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So, how long have you lived where you live? In the house that we are working on, we've been in this house for 26 years.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, wow.
Dawn Trautman: But now you have a
heated bench in her, so.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes, we do. Yeah, so we've been working on renovation for over a year, since I came back to the area from my previous call.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I'd love to see pictures of your house sometime. Mine was built in 1890 and that's really old for this area, but [00:04:00] where you are, it's a whole nother level.
Dawn Trautman: And mine, I'm the first inhabitant.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, my goodness. Tara, we have many things to talk with you about today, and I'd like to start by asking you, what's been one of your most enjoyable creative experiences?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Well, I have to say that one that has helped me connect with both of you. And so many other people in 2020, I started podcasting just from the ground up in the middle of the pandemic.
And that in and of itself was another opportunity to creatively work on my writing because I would write my scripts ahead of time back when I started it, but also then learn how to invite other people into that space. And it's developed from there since 2020 and helped me connect with so many other creative people.
It's an expression of my own creativity, but it also is a space where other people get to share their gifts as well.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah. And I love your podcast and it seems like you've done a lot of different things with it as well. You [00:05:00] share a lot of your own creative things you make, but then also you interview people.
And I remember getting some great sermon ideas from you along the way too.
Dawn Trautman: It's lectionary based.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: a little bit of my first pass over the text originally, you know, and I incorporate some poetry or a blessing that would be in the form of a poem, sometimes my own, sometimes other poets, but that led to the second year of the podcast.
I focused on three and a half questions about love, what people love about themselves, what they love to do and try to find a way to again, connect people. And maybe some folks that. You might not find in the same room all the time or the same perspective, but around that topic, it was a very engaged conversation all about those three and a half questions.
I had a nine year old and then I had octogenarians.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That is so brilliant. I love that idea. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you.
And then the third year really developed to lots of opportunities to share some of the work that other folks were [00:06:00] doing, authors, illustrators. And so on. Okay. And now it's a mishmash.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Mishmash.
Okay.
So how did you come up with the name? It's a cool name that your podcast has.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I've kind of always had this affinity towards Irish things. So I got a card one time that said something about being a shenanigator. And I just, as a woman pastor, going she, nanagans, and holy, because we were talking about everyday things that were holy and sacred.
It just all came together. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: And one more question just about that. You have a really cool logo. Did you make that yourself?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: The very first one, we had somebody on Fiverr did this one. They took a digitized picture of me going like this. Um, then I drew the one that a lot of people know with the spiky hair and currently we just wanted to go in a whole different direction and do something that was more organic.
So it has these. Fun little flowers, you know. Oh, okay. So there's three ideations of that logo. Okay.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Well, I know you're so artistic. So I was like, I bet she's making these things [00:07:00] herself. Awesome. So tell us a little bit about your creative process. When do you like to create? Do you need a quiet? Do you listen to music when you create?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: When I am writing, especially, I need quiet. If there are people in the room, I am going to talk to the people or, you know, in close vicinity. I am that kid in elementary school that the teachers would say, Oh, you know, such a great student if she could just stop talking to her neighbors. Yeah. So I need some quiet.
I need some space. I do like to integrate some activity like go for a walk so I can clear my head, especially if I'm stuck on an idea and I'm not quite sure what to do with it. I'll be like, okay, I'm going to go let this percolate in my mind for a little bit while I go for a walk or go do something away from it to let my brain get a break.
Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: So the physicality seems to be a part of your brain functioning.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. It helps a lot of that busyness in my brain to quiet down. And creative practices in and of themselves for me help me to focus in [00:08:00] that way. As a child, I learned how to draw on the back of those little envelopes and pews of churches.
Dawn Trautman: Like they were supposed
to be for offering?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes, the offering envelopes. And so my dad would hand me those little envelopes and hand me the little pencil that would go to the pew.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah, the golf pencil.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And I would draw all over that little envelope and some folks would say, Oh, she should be listening. But I actually really was, it actually helped me to slow down and center myself so that as I was doodling and drawing, I really heard what was being said and sung at a much deeper level.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I want to hear a little bit. about not long ago you shared with us like a TV news program, but it was featuring a program you had started some years ago that really was celebrating creativity.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It was.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: So tell us about that.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So at that time I was working as a layperson in a Presbyterian church as their outreach person and also as their worship leader for their contemporary service.
And that [00:09:00] space, that church at that time was really living into the fresh expressions and new church developments of the early 2000s. And so that church actually sold their brick and mortar building. They rented a lodge on Lake Chautauqua from a local non profit. And we use that space for Sunday worship and our activities.
The first service would be early, and it would be on one side of the building. And then for the formal service, they would flip the room.
Dawn Trautman: It's totally different.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, it'd be a totally different service. Originally, I was invited to become part of the staff to be. Their worship musician for the contemporary service.
And I had come from a whole life of youth ministry and had gotten away from creative expressions previous to being in that system. I was in a system that was not as open to creative practices as part of a spiritual life. So when I came into that new church development, it's like all of the obstacles I had been facing creatively and the opposition [00:10:00] that I was facing previously melted away.
And so I. Got back to writing my own music. And then I started reaching out to other creatives in the community because I myself had experienced that kind of grief and loss around creative practices. And I knew that to be a spiritual process for me. And so I would have conversations with visual artists and musicians.
From a very broad spectrum, we had some young folks who did rap, some folks who did ambient noise, experimental music, visual artists that were working in fine art, and we had people making quilts and displaying their quilts. So that video that you saw about ArtistShare, That was kind of like our big event after practicing these micro classes or get togethers throughout the year.
Um, but it was this big celebration based on show and tell as a kid. You come and you share your gifts. Everybody's gifts are going to be appreciated.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Mm hmm.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: We all are going to listen politely.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah, uh huh. [00:11:00]
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And you know, all those rules because I really had this feeling like I knew what it was like to not feel nurtured.
in my own creative expression, and I really felt called at that particular point to reach out to those folks in the community.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: And how long did that exist, the artist
share?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: About four years.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, wow.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. It lasted about four years. It would have kept going, except unfortunately that church lost its funding.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So, so I had to reinvent my vocational life.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Was that when you went to seminary? Then
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I actually went to a Lutheran church to work as a youth director after that, and about a year into working at that church, I started having conversations about seminary because I had planned to go to seminary before at that previous church, but without a church and a pastor and the support, the denominationally, they like you to have a support system for, you know, discernment in that process, which is good, but I landed at a Lutheran ELCA church and about a [00:12:00] year of working there.
I started asking people those questions. How do I pursue this? And I ended up working at that church for over eight years as a youth director. But my role shifted in that time because I did a study in youth and theology through Princeton Theological Seminary. It was called the IYM Institute for Youth Ministry.
And back then it was a three year certificate program. And after that, I ended up going to Wartburg Theological Seminary and their theological education for emerging ministries, which is a different track to you. ordination and word and sacrament.
Dawn Trautman: How did you choose Iowa?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: They were graciously giving me a grant.
Dawn Trautman: Great money talks. Yeah. They
wanted
you enough that they found the money. That's how I'm hearing it.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Exactly. This calling that I had felt since I was like 17 years old, finally.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That is amazing. Wow. And I'm just curious. So then did you have to go there? Could you do it at a distance?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It was a pilot. It was like the first.
If not the first, maybe the second of that particular study program. And so some of it was online. I remember [00:13:00] when I was doing homiletics class, a preaching class, that we did it through Skype.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, okay.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And then we would upload our sermons to Vimeo so our classmates could see our sermons.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Sure.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And then we would get together on Skype and do a discussion.
And then also there were intensives on site.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Okay. Yeah. That's so interesting, isn't it? Very cool that you were able to get a grant and go down that road that you'd been called toward for a long time. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It's
definitely been a journey.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah. I love it. All right, first of all, I want to say that the Artist Share thing sounds like it was just such a cool community.
I'm sure it was probably a lot of grief too when it ended. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I am really thankful that regionally I'm pretty close to a lot of those folks that were a part. of ArtiShare, and I have some very good friends still that were a part of that.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, good.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Not everybody, because folks move and whatnot, but there was definitely a strong sense of community that was built out of that.
Um, I like to [00:14:00] say a holy experiment, so ArtiShare. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: A holy experiment.
Dawn Trautman: Holy experiment. Holy shenanigans.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: You sense a theme. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yes. So who are some of your favorite creators?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh my goodness. In the theological world, I have this deep love of Fred Rogers.
Dawn Trautman: Yay. A
fellow Presbyterian.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: He's a fellow Presbyterian musician.
Mr. Rogers Neighborhood made all of the little puppets, you know, Daniel Tiger and all that.
Dawn Trautman: I'm deep into Daniel Tiger right now.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: But I just loved his whole approach of creativity, but also his respect for children. It was such a beautiful ministry that Fred Rogers had and it still continues with his organization, Fred Rogers Productions.
Yeah. So Fred Rogers, and I didn't know for a long time that he was a minister. of seeing his show when I was a young person, but he's walked with me throughout my life. And there are some authors that have been very formative to me. [00:15:00] Madeleine L'Engle, both her fiction and her poetry and her nonfiction.
Her book, A Circle of Quiet, which is a part of the CrossWix three book series. That book, Circle of Quiet, was very instrumental in encouraging me to start going to college. And this is years before I went and pursued a seminary program. I got married pretty young and had my daughter very young. And then all of my friends had gone off to college and had these different lives than I did.
And so I was thinking at the age of 24, I was ancient and I could not go back to school.
Dawn Trautman: Uh huh. That's his
sale.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. I read about her journey with writing, especially all of the rejections she faced in A Wrinkle in Time. People not knowing where to place it, because was it fiction? Was it children's? Was it adults?
Was it fantasy?
Dawn Trautman: Which shelf of the bookstore do you look at?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Exactly. So in hearing her encouragement to just [00:16:00] try it, keep going. So that book, A Circle of Quiet, really Inspired me to start going to college as a yeah, and then there's folks I can talk about Anne Lamott Then I can also think about another author.
I don't know if you would know her work, but her name is Phyllis tickle
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, yeah. Mm hmm
Dawn Trautman: at an organization and she was on the board Oh, wow. Oh. I know. So I Dawn't know her, but she was a part of the flow of my life. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I got connected with Phyllis through the Emerging Church Movement at that little Presbyterian church that I told you about with Artists Share
I started bringing in authors to do these book salons, or if they were, you know, doing a tour to promote their book, I'd say, Hey, if you're going to be in Rochester or Buffalo, can you take a stop here? We'll feed you. We'll put you up. Yeah. And Phyllis was incredibly gracious. Thank you. It was when she was promoting her book, The Great Emergence, she came to our area.
I got to pick her up at the Buffalo airport and have alone time in the car with Phyllis Tickle. [00:17:00]
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That's really cool. I love that.
Dawn Trautman: So few people when they bring up their favorite creators have met them.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: she was such a kind and caring person. And as I may have alluded to, like in my journey to become a pastor, it was very long and winding road.
And there were lots of stops and starts and oh man, I've got to start again in this different tradition. Oh, I need to find a grant if I'm going to do this. But Phyllis would write to me and she would say, keep going, the church will catch up. Keep going, the church will catch up.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I love that.
Yeah. Yeah. That is so good.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. A couple of years ago, I went to the Wild Goose Festival for the first time. And I was sitting in a tent talking with a friend I hadn't seen in years that she knew Phyllis and I knew Phyllis. And over our shoulders was a tent of memorials of the people who've been essential in founding Wild Goose Festival.
And over our shoulders was a portrait of Phyllis.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Of course
it's
her.
Dawn Trautman: Tell us about the Wild Goose Festival. Yeah, so Do we want to [00:18:00] go?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes, you want to go. If people are thinking about creativity, if they're approaching their faith or spirituality from a different perspective, this is a place where you can receive care and compassion and encouragement.
So I would recommend it. I've got to do my submission too. So you all should do it. And I'll do it. We'll plan together.
Dawn Trautman: People
could just come.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh,
yes.
Dawn Trautman: You could just sign up and pay money and go.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Correct. You can just attend the event. You Dawn't have to present, , but they have a very open way of applying to be a presenter.
There's been folks that, that come, that have the whole book deal and you can purchase the book and sign in the tent. And there can be people that don't have that. They could just be coming and wanting to share a story or a gift that they have with the community.
Dawn Trautman: What makes a good fit for that subculture?
And you're like, these are the kinds of workshops, presenters, tents, whatever.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh, wow. It is. It's such a broad. Okay. Expression. I think that the consistent ethics would be compassion, creativity, [00:19:00] and a little bit of pizazz.
Dawn Trautman: Pizazz
is my high school show choir. ParDawn myself, pizazz.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Pizazz, yeah, but compassion on the front end.
Dawn Trautman: Okay. Compassion, creativity,
pizazz. Yeah. We might fit in.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I think so. Dawn brings the pizazz for sure.
Dawn Trautman: Well, I am an actual member of pizazz, my high school show choir.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, so there we're all set. Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: I can
share a clip if anyone needs them.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And this year it's actually much later in the season. It's Labor Day weekend.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh,
it's later. Okay. That's good to know.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. Cause the last two years I've attended has been so hot. It was right in the middle of July.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: In North
Carolina. Is that right?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Union Grove, North Carolina. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, up in the mountains,
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Dawn, we're gonna
have to do
some talk.
Yeah. Okay.
Dawn Trautman: Thank you for your insight.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: So let's see. What are you working on lately?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I'm continuing to work on podcast. I've been going through my list. Thankfully, I've got a wonderful list of folks that have reached out to me that want to come on and talk about their book or their different [00:20:00] activities. So that's become self generating.
Nice. Which is lovely. Sometimes I wish I had more time to work on it, but as a full time pastor, you do what you can. Yep,
Pastor Ruth Hetland: you do what you can. I know someone who had been on your show then talked to us a few weeks later, like maybe Marla? Marla Tabiano.
Dawn Trautman: Was it Marla?
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yes. Yes. Uh
Dawn Trautman: huh. Anyway, that was cool.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And her poetry.
Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: Yes. Yeah. You're a feeder system. Thank you for us. Yes. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Well, Marla
is one of those folks who wants to return to talk about her new books that she has produced recently and released.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: We really enjoyed talking to her. Yeah. She's great. And how much of creativity do you think is.
Inspiration and how much is discipline?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: There's times in my life that I think it's kind of 50 50. There are times that inspiration strikes and the song just comes together in this very amazing way. Or I've gotten an idea for a painting and I can see it in my head. And if I can get to my supplies and capture it, it can happen [00:21:00] quickly.
But if there's a longer term project, something that requires more devotion of time and energy, and it's a bigger project, I've got to establish a time. I've got to make those windows. As I try to figure out how to balance life a little bit more, I'm in a new call, and I have a little bit more space to navigate those things.
Setting a block of time, usually Monday mornings is when I'm working on my sermon for my church world. Friday morning, I also part of a writing group online that gets together called The Writing Table. And I work on this personal project on Friday mornings. Nice.
Dawn Trautman: Okay. So discipline for you is most required in the realm of time, setting aside time.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Setting aside time, yes.
Dawn Trautman: Love
it.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I feel like, it's like setting the table. For me that if I set the table or if I want to have good lunches all week, I'll do the food prep, right?
Dawn Trautman: Yep.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: But there are times that inspiration will strike. I feel the Holy Spirit is like, Hey, over here, pay attention to this.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I remember [00:22:00] you used to post amazing pictures about things you were.
Cooking. Do you still do that? Yeah, I do.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I, yeah. About 15 years ago, I realized I needed to switch to a gluten-free diet and have been doing that since then. And so my hashtag was Tara Cooks gf, so G Good food. Mm-hmm .
Dawn Trautman: Or gluten-free. Yeah. Ah, yes.
Multi useful.
Yes.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. And that was how to set. Those different aspects of creativity in an online presence was really helpful for me.
I started a page that was just my cooking page, right? I have the Holy Shenanigans page and then I have my personal one. And divvying that out, initially I was like, Oh, but it's not consistent of a algorithm. But if people are looking for cooking, they can find the cooking. And if people are looking for the podcast, they can find the podcast.
Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Is it a challenge for you keeping up with all the different ones?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It can be. And actually that's, I know later, Dawn may offer some coaching advice.
Dawn Trautman: You know where this is going. Have you heard this podcast before?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I have. I listen all the [00:23:00] time. I'm a faithful listener. Um, cause I find what you share so helpful for me as a creative person.
Um, so thank you for that. And I think right now, especially as I know a lot of folks are trying to figure out beyond one particular platform, how to get their word out there, not lose the audience that they've gathered, but also feel good about the platform that you're using.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah.
So how do you see
Creativity and Spirituality connect?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I just believe that they are interwoven, interconnected. As I told you the story about being a little child sitting in church and drawing on the back of offering envelopes, that drawing space allowed me that internal quiet to listen and to hear the text read and take part in the music. And for me, sometimes I think it's a challenge because I love so many different expressions of creativity and art.
You know, I love writing music. I love to write just spiritual that hopefully people [00:24:00] could engage with and wrestle with some of their own spiritual questions. I love visual art. I love poetry. So I guess for me, sometimes it's hard to be like, do I have to pick one? And I, and at this point in my life, I do not have to pick one.
Dawn Trautman: No, not at all.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Not at all. So is there something that Dawn could give you some coaching on today?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, that's my question. I have a website that's tarlamanteesman. com, and it needs some TLC. I know that very much, but I'm trying to figure out, because currently I am on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, and I even share some of my stuff on Indeed and LinkedIn.
But that's a lot of maintenance across those platforms. Initially, I got involved with TikTok during the pandemic because so many people went over to TikTok that's kind of had this big boom of popularity, but I loved that the format of TikTok allowed you to do a little bit more editing with their videos and things like that.
It was before [00:25:00] reels were a thing on Instagram. So you could create something on one platform, download it, and drop it into another. But I found recently that there's a lot of legal challenges to that. Sometimes you can drop a song into something on one platform that you go to share to another and they totally scrub all your audio because it doesn't have the same legal permissions.
So you have to learn how to navigate that. Like most of the time I don't use the background music over on TikTok anymore because then I can like download it and repurpose it.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. And you still have your audio.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I guess I'm just looking for some advice on how do you choose which way to go with your social media?
Dawn Trautman: What is your goal? Why are you on social media?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: To connect with people, to get a message of hope out there in the world, to also help people connect with the podcast.
Dawn Trautman: Who are those people who connects most strongly? Like an ideal client profile, you know?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. I feel like there initially were a lot of women clergy, but now Having expanded to a little bit more of an interview format, I [00:26:00] have authors and teachers.
Dawn Trautman: So they're people who've been to college. They're more often female identifying. Yeah. They're probably in the United States?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Some global. Yeah, some global. Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: What else could we say about all of them? Do they shop at Target or Walmart?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Probably Target.
Dawn Trautman: People know! Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Probably Target people.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. Are they over or under 35? Maybe over 35. There are some younger ones. But probably over 35 majority. Okay. So the bullseye over 35 United States, somehow spiritually connected college educated target shopper. Yeah. Somebody knows where they are. Okay. Okay. Put demographically speaking. Yeah.
Demographically speaking, they are more somewhere than somewhere else. So go where they are and put most of your energy there in that format. They might be honestly on Pinterest. True. As I just said it out loud, I'm like that person is on.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Wow. They are. Yeah. That person is on Pinterest. Yeah. So then you would like to make the thing.
I'm on
Pinterest.
Dawn Trautman: Well, great. [00:27:00] We're halfway there. So you'd make it for Pinterest and repurpose elsewhere, like make a perfect match. Yeah. For Pinterest.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Okay.
Dawn Trautman: The other thing, part B, that you didn't ask for.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Okay. I'm here for it.
Dawn Trautman: Don't depend on social media. I know. More and more people are disillusioned, and they'll invent a new one, but I think it'll get more and more dissipated.
We used to have ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS, right? And now we've got 110, 000 things to watch. Every week, 30 million people would watch Friends, and it wasn't an outlier. I just happened to know about that show. Yeah. So, there's no way! The most popular Game of Thrones finale came nowhere close. And we have to be ready for a huge disintegration of where people are as they move around between social media.
Yes. So you need to own the list. You've got to get your own emails and own your list. So that if MailChimp goes down, you own the list, you download it, you switch, but it's no effect on them. Correct. Yeah. But if Facebook goes down and you've lost 5, 000 people, you don't have a good way of getting back to them.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Right.
Dawn Trautman: Because they also own [00:28:00] Instagram.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I know.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. So it's a lot. But that can't be your main arena. It's secondary.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Okay. Which is a switch in thinking for me.
Dawn Trautman: Because it's pretty big. I'm just thinking, what are we going to want in 2027? We're going to wish we had a big list.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: exactly. And I have probably spent the least amount of time in this kind of communication in my email list.
I've been leaning so much more towards the social media and yeah. I
Dawn Trautman: think the podcast also is a way that people are getting to know you. It's all a part of the thing. Yes. Yeah. But you've got to be able to get to them without any of these intermediary companies where you do not own the content.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Correct.
I do the same thing. I've leaned a lot more into social media than my email list. So I'll be working on that with you too.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, no, it's, I appreciate that because I know for myself, I know that this is a concern, but I know that I am not the only one that's wrestling with this right now.
Dawn Trautman: And I think people, here's the prediction.
We'll have this recorded. I'll either be so wrong and we'll play it later. and it'll be funny. Okay. [00:29:00] People want, as AI is bigger, they're going to want to see real people in front of them. They're going to go to live things because you know for sure you see the words coming out of someone's mouth right in front of you.
They're going to get real books they can touch. They're going to go to live retreats, not online retreats. My people, this will have already happened, but my people, my six month group, I'm sending them a box via Ruth because she's Good at it. I like, they're going to get a real thing in the mail, even though we're connecting online, yeah, like tangible connection as we advertise our business.
I think it will be live speaking engagements, wild goose festival that you've already done yeah. It's going to be that more and more because. People won't know what's real and they'll just say, forget it, I'm out. Yeah. I'll either be super, super wrong or this is going to happen. I mean,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: yeah, I think that's a really important point.
I remember early on in my spiritual quest to find a church that had a bigger tent. I attended a worship retreat. At Mount St. Benedict's [00:30:00] in Erie, Pennsylvania, and it is a monastery. The sisters there are incredible people, and one of the sisters, Sister Carolyn, she would host a quarterly retreat for women in transition, all people who identified as women.
And we would go to this retreat center, and they would feed us. And they would share creative practices with us and they would love on us, whomever we were from whatever background we were. And that was, I don't use the word magic ever, but it was magical that it was such a meaningful experience. Like, I know that because of that face to face experience all the way back then with this small intimate group of people, I know that led to going and applying for that grant for seminary.
Right? Right. Right. Without that. The other would not have come, right? Without that, I wouldn't have imagined of something like ArtistShare, right? Or Holy Shenanigans
Dawn Trautman: Podcast. And you had to be embodied in that first step. That's helpful. So make it possible. to see these people. [00:31:00] Make them come to you, whatever.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, that's
true.
Dawn Trautman: You're in Chautauqua. It's beautiful. I know.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I'm in Chautauqua County and then I just work just south of there in Warren County. The new church that I am at is a beautiful 200 year old building. Oh, it's just gorgeous stained glass and right on the main street of this very quaint town.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That's cool.
Dawn Trautman: I would go there for a weekend in the fall, Tuesday through Thursday. Yes,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: that's a great idea.
Dawn Trautman: My weekends. I just pick a day. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. I love that. Curiously. Yeah. I think that's a really important thing because even as folks talk about the needs to be more engaged in making change in the world, that it's really important that grassroots connection is where we're investing a lot of our time and energy.
Yeah. Yeah. So. That makes sense on spiritual caretaking and creative efforts as well.
Dawn Trautman: So what's your first step?
What can you do in the next two weeks?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I was thinking about actually setting a date for something like a retreat like I [00:32:00] experienced at that Women in Transition.
Dawn Trautman: This is real!
I just was like, I would go to you!
And you're like, actually, it already is happening. Okay.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I was thinking about that this morning.
Dawn Trautman: Within two weeks, you'll have a date, meaning, you know, you've booked a retreat center or you've cleared your church calendar and found a bed and breakfast nearby or what is happening.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I think it might start with
a baby step of doing a day retreat.
Dawn Trautman: Great.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Setting a date for a day retreat. Because I really, as I was thinking about that experience with those quarterly retreats with Sister Carolyn, I'm like, is there a way to do a Saturday morning four times a year? Totally. Yes, there is.
Dawn Trautman: What is the point of the retreat?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: To support people in times of spiritual transition and offer creative practices.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. That can happen.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I
love it.
Dawn Trautman: Okay. That is independent on parties. It's on social media. That thing is putting a flyer at Target.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It is.
Dawn Trautman: Or whoever lets you. Starbucks lets you. Yeah. It doesn't need social media. It can be supported by social media, but that can also be grassroots.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Nice.
Dawn Trautman: Awesome.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank [00:33:00] you.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah.
Yeah. I'm so happy that you could be with us today, Tara. This was wonderful. Thank you.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. And like I said earlier, for so long, I kept thinking that I have to choose things. Even in this invitation you've offered to me to think outside of the social media situation, like I Dawn't just have to choose that.
There are other options. And I think that's an important thing for other folks to hear too. There are other options for them to connect and build community and spiritually. Yes.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah. So true. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you, Dawn and Ruth, for this wonderful conversation about how each and every one of us are created creative.
I am your Holy Shenanigans Muse, Tara Lamont Eastman. Thank you for joining us for Holy Shenanigans that surprise, encourage, redirect, and turn life upside down. All in the name of love. This is an unpredictable spiritual adventure [00:34:00] that is always sacred, but never stuffy to contribute to the production costs of this podcast.
Go to www. buymeacoffee. com backslash Tara L Eastman. Gratitude once more to Created Creative Podcast, Ruth Hetland and Dawn Trautman for hosting this crossover episode of Holy Shenanigans Podcast. Be sure to listen to Created Creative Podcast on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, let's embrace this new season and spring into full bloom.
Remember that we all are created creative and that our holy shenanigans Transcripts have only just begun.
[00:35:00]
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: [00:00:00] Welcome to Holy Shenanigans podcast. I'm your muse, Tara Lamont Eastman, a pastor, podcaster, and practitioner of Holy Shenanigans. In my corner of the world, we've just passed spring forward and are celebrating St. Patrick's Day and almost. Almost spring. We're beginning to see signs of spring all around us.
Crocuses are peeking out of the ground. The temperature is finally warming up. And I am anticipating the season of newness just around the corner. But as I wait for true spring, I've been thinking a lot about the flowers just peeking from the ground. They continue to grow through the still cold ground.
Faithful to their art of blooming as they seek the warmth of the sun. These little [00:01:00] flowers have been engaged in creative work for some time now. Before we could see them above the surface, those little seeds remained committed to their creative task. They were created to be creative and do the hard work of blooming in due time.
Creative efforts take time, energy, and practice, Dawn't they? What else is needed for creative efforts? You! This week at Holy Shenanigans Podcast, I am delighted to share a conversation with the hosts of Created creative podcast, Dawn Trautman, actor, singer, producer, life coach, and podcaster. And Ruth Hetland, pastor creator of Consecrate Box subscription Service yoga practitioner.
And podcaster Ruth and [00:02:00] Dawn both individually and separately have been guests here on previous episodes of HSP. And they are two of the most enthusiastically creative people I know. They are makers who celebrate and encourage each and every person to know that they are created creative.
It's my joy to invite you to listen in on this conversation about creativity, and I hope that my own story will affirm the fact that you too are created creative in your own beautiful way. So here's Dawn and Ruth. Now,
Pastor Ruth Hetland: oh, it's so nice to see you. How are you today?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I am good. I have to tell you that I just had contractors leave my house. And they were staining, so it's a little bit aromatic.
Dawn Trautman: Are you going alter your brain
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Dawn't know. [00:03:00] It's one degree, and I propped the screen door open so that I can be coherent in our conversation today.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: If you start to not make any sense, we'll tell you to please leave the room and go.
Get some fresh air.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Dawn and I had the joy of being on your podcast not long ago. Yes. That was really fun.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you so much for visiting.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: We're like when people used to watch must see TV, and they'd have a night where the characters are interacting with the others from that night.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It's like a crossover from one
Dawn Trautman: Crossover episode. There we go. I knew there was a word, and it was, uh, I'm not even sitting with paint fumes, and I can't come up with my nouns.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So, how long have you lived where you live? In the house that we are working on, we've been in this house for 26 years.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, wow.
Dawn Trautman: But now you have a
heated bench in her, so.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes, we do. Yeah, so we've been working on renovation for over a year, since I came back to the area from my previous call.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I'd love to see pictures of your house sometime. Mine was built in 1890 and that's really old for this area, but [00:04:00] where you are, it's a whole nother level.
Dawn Trautman: And mine, I'm the first inhabitant.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, my goodness. Tara, we have many things to talk with you about today, and I'd like to start by asking you, what's been one of your most enjoyable creative experiences?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Well, I have to say that one that has helped me connect with both of you. And so many other people in 2020, I started podcasting just from the ground up in the middle of the pandemic.
And that in and of itself was another opportunity to creatively work on my writing because I would write my scripts ahead of time back when I started it, but also then learn how to invite other people into that space. And it's developed from there since 2020 and helped me connect with so many other creative people.
It's an expression of my own creativity, but it also is a space where other people get to share their gifts as well.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah. And I love your podcast and it seems like you've done a lot of different things with it as well. You [00:05:00] share a lot of your own creative things you make, but then also you interview people.
And I remember getting some great sermon ideas from you along the way too.
Dawn Trautman: It's lectionary based.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: a little bit of my first pass over the text originally, you know, and I incorporate some poetry or a blessing that would be in the form of a poem, sometimes my own, sometimes other poets, but that led to the second year of the podcast.
I focused on three and a half questions about love, what people love about themselves, what they love to do and try to find a way to again, connect people. And maybe some folks that. You might not find in the same room all the time or the same perspective, but around that topic, it was a very engaged conversation all about those three and a half questions.
I had a nine year old and then I had octogenarians.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That is so brilliant. I love that idea. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you.
And then the third year really developed to lots of opportunities to share some of the work that other folks were [00:06:00] doing, authors, illustrators. And so on. Okay. And now it's a mishmash.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Mishmash.
Okay.
So how did you come up with the name? It's a cool name that your podcast has.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I've kind of always had this affinity towards Irish things. So I got a card one time that said something about being a shenanigator. And I just, as a woman pastor, going she, nanagans, and holy, because we were talking about everyday things that were holy and sacred.
It just all came together. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: And one more question just about that. You have a really cool logo. Did you make that yourself?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: The very first one, we had somebody on Fiverr did this one. They took a digitized picture of me going like this. Um, then I drew the one that a lot of people know with the spiky hair and currently we just wanted to go in a whole different direction and do something that was more organic.
So it has these. Fun little flowers, you know. Oh, okay. So there's three ideations of that logo. Okay.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Well, I know you're so artistic. So I was like, I bet she's making these things [00:07:00] herself. Awesome. So tell us a little bit about your creative process. When do you like to create? Do you need a quiet? Do you listen to music when you create?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: When I am writing, especially, I need quiet. If there are people in the room, I am going to talk to the people or, you know, in close vicinity. I am that kid in elementary school that the teachers would say, Oh, you know, such a great student if she could just stop talking to her neighbors. Yeah. So I need some quiet.
I need some space. I do like to integrate some activity like go for a walk so I can clear my head, especially if I'm stuck on an idea and I'm not quite sure what to do with it. I'll be like, okay, I'm going to go let this percolate in my mind for a little bit while I go for a walk or go do something away from it to let my brain get a break.
Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: So the physicality seems to be a part of your brain functioning.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. It helps a lot of that busyness in my brain to quiet down. And creative practices in and of themselves for me help me to focus in [00:08:00] that way. As a child, I learned how to draw on the back of those little envelopes and pews of churches.
Dawn Trautman: Like they were supposed
to be for offering?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes, the offering envelopes. And so my dad would hand me those little envelopes and hand me the little pencil that would go to the pew.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah, the golf pencil.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And I would draw all over that little envelope and some folks would say, Oh, she should be listening. But I actually really was, it actually helped me to slow down and center myself so that as I was doodling and drawing, I really heard what was being said and sung at a much deeper level.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I want to hear a little bit. about not long ago you shared with us like a TV news program, but it was featuring a program you had started some years ago that really was celebrating creativity.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It was.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: So tell us about that.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So at that time I was working as a layperson in a Presbyterian church as their outreach person and also as their worship leader for their contemporary service.
And that [00:09:00] space, that church at that time was really living into the fresh expressions and new church developments of the early 2000s. And so that church actually sold their brick and mortar building. They rented a lodge on Lake Chautauqua from a local non profit. And we use that space for Sunday worship and our activities.
The first service would be early, and it would be on one side of the building. And then for the formal service, they would flip the room.
Dawn Trautman: It's totally different.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, it'd be a totally different service. Originally, I was invited to become part of the staff to be. Their worship musician for the contemporary service.
And I had come from a whole life of youth ministry and had gotten away from creative expressions previous to being in that system. I was in a system that was not as open to creative practices as part of a spiritual life. So when I came into that new church development, it's like all of the obstacles I had been facing creatively and the opposition [00:10:00] that I was facing previously melted away.
And so I. Got back to writing my own music. And then I started reaching out to other creatives in the community because I myself had experienced that kind of grief and loss around creative practices. And I knew that to be a spiritual process for me. And so I would have conversations with visual artists and musicians.
From a very broad spectrum, we had some young folks who did rap, some folks who did ambient noise, experimental music, visual artists that were working in fine art, and we had people making quilts and displaying their quilts. So that video that you saw about ArtistShare, That was kind of like our big event after practicing these micro classes or get togethers throughout the year.
Um, but it was this big celebration based on show and tell as a kid. You come and you share your gifts. Everybody's gifts are going to be appreciated.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Mm hmm.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: We all are going to listen politely.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah, uh huh. [00:11:00]
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And you know, all those rules because I really had this feeling like I knew what it was like to not feel nurtured.
in my own creative expression, and I really felt called at that particular point to reach out to those folks in the community.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: And how long did that exist, the artist
share?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: About four years.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, wow.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. It lasted about four years. It would have kept going, except unfortunately that church lost its funding.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So, so I had to reinvent my vocational life.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Was that when you went to seminary? Then
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I actually went to a Lutheran church to work as a youth director after that, and about a year into working at that church, I started having conversations about seminary because I had planned to go to seminary before at that previous church, but without a church and a pastor and the support, the denominationally, they like you to have a support system for, you know, discernment in that process, which is good, but I landed at a Lutheran ELCA church and about a [00:12:00] year of working there.
I started asking people those questions. How do I pursue this? And I ended up working at that church for over eight years as a youth director. But my role shifted in that time because I did a study in youth and theology through Princeton Theological Seminary. It was called the IYM Institute for Youth Ministry.
And back then it was a three year certificate program. And after that, I ended up going to Wartburg Theological Seminary and their theological education for emerging ministries, which is a different track to you. ordination and word and sacrament.
Dawn Trautman: How did you choose Iowa?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: They were graciously giving me a grant.
Dawn Trautman: Great money talks. Yeah. They
wanted
you enough that they found the money. That's how I'm hearing it.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Exactly. This calling that I had felt since I was like 17 years old, finally.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That is amazing. Wow. And I'm just curious. So then did you have to go there? Could you do it at a distance?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It was a pilot. It was like the first.
If not the first, maybe the second of that particular study program. And so some of it was online. I remember [00:13:00] when I was doing homiletics class, a preaching class, that we did it through Skype.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, okay.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And then we would upload our sermons to Vimeo so our classmates could see our sermons.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Sure.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And then we would get together on Skype and do a discussion.
And then also there were intensives on site.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Okay. Yeah. That's so interesting, isn't it? Very cool that you were able to get a grant and go down that road that you'd been called toward for a long time. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It's
definitely been a journey.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah. I love it. All right, first of all, I want to say that the Artist Share thing sounds like it was just such a cool community.
I'm sure it was probably a lot of grief too when it ended. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I am really thankful that regionally I'm pretty close to a lot of those folks that were a part. of ArtiShare, and I have some very good friends still that were a part of that.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, good.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Not everybody, because folks move and whatnot, but there was definitely a strong sense of community that was built out of that.
Um, I like to [00:14:00] say a holy experiment, so ArtiShare. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: A holy experiment.
Dawn Trautman: Holy experiment. Holy shenanigans.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: You sense a theme. Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yes. So who are some of your favorite creators?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh my goodness. In the theological world, I have this deep love of Fred Rogers.
Dawn Trautman: Yay. A
fellow Presbyterian.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: He's a fellow Presbyterian musician.
Mr. Rogers Neighborhood made all of the little puppets, you know, Daniel Tiger and all that.
Dawn Trautman: I'm deep into Daniel Tiger right now.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: But I just loved his whole approach of creativity, but also his respect for children. It was such a beautiful ministry that Fred Rogers had and it still continues with his organization, Fred Rogers Productions.
Yeah. So Fred Rogers, and I didn't know for a long time that he was a minister. of seeing his show when I was a young person, but he's walked with me throughout my life. And there are some authors that have been very formative to me. [00:15:00] Madeleine L'Engle, both her fiction and her poetry and her nonfiction.
Her book, A Circle of Quiet, which is a part of the CrossWix three book series. That book, Circle of Quiet, was very instrumental in encouraging me to start going to college. And this is years before I went and pursued a seminary program. I got married pretty young and had my daughter very young. And then all of my friends had gone off to college and had these different lives than I did.
And so I was thinking at the age of 24, I was ancient and I could not go back to school.
Dawn Trautman: Uh huh. That's his
sale.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. I read about her journey with writing, especially all of the rejections she faced in A Wrinkle in Time. People not knowing where to place it, because was it fiction? Was it children's? Was it adults?
Was it fantasy?
Dawn Trautman: Which shelf of the bookstore do you look at?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Exactly. So in hearing her encouragement to just [00:16:00] try it, keep going. So that book, A Circle of Quiet, really Inspired me to start going to college as a yeah, and then there's folks I can talk about Anne Lamott Then I can also think about another author.
I don't know if you would know her work, but her name is Phyllis tickle
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, yeah. Mm hmm
Dawn Trautman: at an organization and she was on the board Oh, wow. Oh. I know. So I Dawn't know her, but she was a part of the flow of my life. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I got connected with Phyllis through the Emerging Church Movement at that little Presbyterian church that I told you about with Artists Share
I started bringing in authors to do these book salons, or if they were, you know, doing a tour to promote their book, I'd say, Hey, if you're going to be in Rochester or Buffalo, can you take a stop here? We'll feed you. We'll put you up. Yeah. And Phyllis was incredibly gracious. Thank you. It was when she was promoting her book, The Great Emergence, she came to our area.
I got to pick her up at the Buffalo airport and have alone time in the car with Phyllis Tickle. [00:17:00]
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That's really cool. I love that.
Dawn Trautman: So few people when they bring up their favorite creators have met them.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: she was such a kind and caring person. And as I may have alluded to, like in my journey to become a pastor, it was very long and winding road.
And there were lots of stops and starts and oh man, I've got to start again in this different tradition. Oh, I need to find a grant if I'm going to do this. But Phyllis would write to me and she would say, keep going, the church will catch up. Keep going, the church will catch up.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I love that.
Yeah. Yeah. That is so good.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. A couple of years ago, I went to the Wild Goose Festival for the first time. And I was sitting in a tent talking with a friend I hadn't seen in years that she knew Phyllis and I knew Phyllis. And over our shoulders was a tent of memorials of the people who've been essential in founding Wild Goose Festival.
And over our shoulders was a portrait of Phyllis.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Of course
it's
her.
Dawn Trautman: Tell us about the Wild Goose Festival. Yeah, so Do we want to [00:18:00] go?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yes, you want to go. If people are thinking about creativity, if they're approaching their faith or spirituality from a different perspective, this is a place where you can receive care and compassion and encouragement.
So I would recommend it. I've got to do my submission too. So you all should do it. And I'll do it. We'll plan together.
Dawn Trautman: People
could just come.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh,
yes.
Dawn Trautman: You could just sign up and pay money and go.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Correct. You can just attend the event. You Dawn't have to present, , but they have a very open way of applying to be a presenter.
There's been folks that, that come, that have the whole book deal and you can purchase the book and sign in the tent. And there can be people that don't have that. They could just be coming and wanting to share a story or a gift that they have with the community.
Dawn Trautman: What makes a good fit for that subculture?
And you're like, these are the kinds of workshops, presenters, tents, whatever.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Oh, wow. It is. It's such a broad. Okay. Expression. I think that the consistent ethics would be compassion, creativity, [00:19:00] and a little bit of pizazz.
Dawn Trautman: Pizazz
is my high school show choir. ParDawn myself, pizazz.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Pizazz, yeah, but compassion on the front end.
Dawn Trautman: Okay. Compassion, creativity,
pizazz. Yeah. We might fit in.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I think so. Dawn brings the pizazz for sure.
Dawn Trautman: Well, I am an actual member of pizazz, my high school show choir.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh, so there we're all set. Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: I can
share a clip if anyone needs them.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And this year it's actually much later in the season. It's Labor Day weekend.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Oh,
it's later. Okay. That's good to know.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. Cause the last two years I've attended has been so hot. It was right in the middle of July.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: In North
Carolina. Is that right?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Union Grove, North Carolina. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, up in the mountains,
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Dawn, we're gonna
have to do
some talk.
Yeah. Okay.
Dawn Trautman: Thank you for your insight.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: So let's see. What are you working on lately?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I'm continuing to work on podcast. I've been going through my list. Thankfully, I've got a wonderful list of folks that have reached out to me that want to come on and talk about their book or their different [00:20:00] activities. So that's become self generating.
Nice. Which is lovely. Sometimes I wish I had more time to work on it, but as a full time pastor, you do what you can. Yep,
Pastor Ruth Hetland: you do what you can. I know someone who had been on your show then talked to us a few weeks later, like maybe Marla? Marla Tabiano.
Dawn Trautman: Was it Marla?
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yes. Yes. Uh
Dawn Trautman: huh. Anyway, that was cool.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: And her poetry.
Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: Yes. Yeah. You're a feeder system. Thank you for us. Yes. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Well, Marla
is one of those folks who wants to return to talk about her new books that she has produced recently and released.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: We really enjoyed talking to her. Yeah. She's great. And how much of creativity do you think is.
Inspiration and how much is discipline?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: There's times in my life that I think it's kind of 50 50. There are times that inspiration strikes and the song just comes together in this very amazing way. Or I've gotten an idea for a painting and I can see it in my head. And if I can get to my supplies and capture it, it can happen [00:21:00] quickly.
But if there's a longer term project, something that requires more devotion of time and energy, and it's a bigger project, I've got to establish a time. I've got to make those windows. As I try to figure out how to balance life a little bit more, I'm in a new call, and I have a little bit more space to navigate those things.
Setting a block of time, usually Monday mornings is when I'm working on my sermon for my church world. Friday morning, I also part of a writing group online that gets together called The Writing Table. And I work on this personal project on Friday mornings. Nice.
Dawn Trautman: Okay. So discipline for you is most required in the realm of time, setting aside time.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Setting aside time, yes.
Dawn Trautman: Love
it.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I feel like, it's like setting the table. For me that if I set the table or if I want to have good lunches all week, I'll do the food prep, right?
Dawn Trautman: Yep.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: But there are times that inspiration will strike. I feel the Holy Spirit is like, Hey, over here, pay attention to this.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I remember [00:22:00] you used to post amazing pictures about things you were.
Cooking. Do you still do that? Yeah, I do.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I, yeah. About 15 years ago, I realized I needed to switch to a gluten-free diet and have been doing that since then. And so my hashtag was Tara Cooks gf, so G Good food. Mm-hmm .
Dawn Trautman: Or gluten-free. Yeah. Ah, yes.
Multi useful.
Yes.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. And that was how to set. Those different aspects of creativity in an online presence was really helpful for me.
I started a page that was just my cooking page, right? I have the Holy Shenanigans page and then I have my personal one. And divvying that out, initially I was like, Oh, but it's not consistent of a algorithm. But if people are looking for cooking, they can find the cooking. And if people are looking for the podcast, they can find the podcast.
Yeah.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Is it a challenge for you keeping up with all the different ones?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It can be. And actually that's, I know later, Dawn may offer some coaching advice.
Dawn Trautman: You know where this is going. Have you heard this podcast before?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I have. I listen all the [00:23:00] time. I'm a faithful listener. Um, cause I find what you share so helpful for me as a creative person.
Um, so thank you for that. And I think right now, especially as I know a lot of folks are trying to figure out beyond one particular platform, how to get their word out there, not lose the audience that they've gathered, but also feel good about the platform that you're using.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah.
So how do you see
Creativity and Spirituality connect?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I just believe that they are interwoven, interconnected. As I told you the story about being a little child sitting in church and drawing on the back of offering envelopes, that drawing space allowed me that internal quiet to listen and to hear the text read and take part in the music. And for me, sometimes I think it's a challenge because I love so many different expressions of creativity and art.
You know, I love writing music. I love to write just spiritual that hopefully people [00:24:00] could engage with and wrestle with some of their own spiritual questions. I love visual art. I love poetry. So I guess for me, sometimes it's hard to be like, do I have to pick one? And I, and at this point in my life, I do not have to pick one.
Dawn Trautman: No, not at all.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Not at all. So is there something that Dawn could give you some coaching on today?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, that's my question. I have a website that's tarlamanteesman. com, and it needs some TLC. I know that very much, but I'm trying to figure out, because currently I am on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, and I even share some of my stuff on Indeed and LinkedIn.
But that's a lot of maintenance across those platforms. Initially, I got involved with TikTok during the pandemic because so many people went over to TikTok that's kind of had this big boom of popularity, but I loved that the format of TikTok allowed you to do a little bit more editing with their videos and things like that.
It was before [00:25:00] reels were a thing on Instagram. So you could create something on one platform, download it, and drop it into another. But I found recently that there's a lot of legal challenges to that. Sometimes you can drop a song into something on one platform that you go to share to another and they totally scrub all your audio because it doesn't have the same legal permissions.
So you have to learn how to navigate that. Like most of the time I don't use the background music over on TikTok anymore because then I can like download it and repurpose it.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. And you still have your audio.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: So I guess I'm just looking for some advice on how do you choose which way to go with your social media?
Dawn Trautman: What is your goal? Why are you on social media?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: To connect with people, to get a message of hope out there in the world, to also help people connect with the podcast.
Dawn Trautman: Who are those people who connects most strongly? Like an ideal client profile, you know?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. I feel like there initially were a lot of women clergy, but now Having expanded to a little bit more of an interview format, I [00:26:00] have authors and teachers.
Dawn Trautman: So they're people who've been to college. They're more often female identifying. Yeah. They're probably in the United States?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Some global. Yeah, some global. Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: What else could we say about all of them? Do they shop at Target or Walmart?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Probably Target.
Dawn Trautman: People know! Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Probably Target people.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. Are they over or under 35? Maybe over 35. There are some younger ones. But probably over 35 majority. Okay. So the bullseye over 35 United States, somehow spiritually connected college educated target shopper. Yeah. Somebody knows where they are. Okay. Okay. Put demographically speaking. Yeah.
Demographically speaking, they are more somewhere than somewhere else. So go where they are and put most of your energy there in that format. They might be honestly on Pinterest. True. As I just said it out loud, I'm like that person is on.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Wow. They are. Yeah. That person is on Pinterest. Yeah. So then you would like to make the thing.
I'm on
Pinterest.
Dawn Trautman: Well, great. [00:27:00] We're halfway there. So you'd make it for Pinterest and repurpose elsewhere, like make a perfect match. Yeah. For Pinterest.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Okay.
Dawn Trautman: The other thing, part B, that you didn't ask for.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Okay. I'm here for it.
Dawn Trautman: Don't depend on social media. I know. More and more people are disillusioned, and they'll invent a new one, but I think it'll get more and more dissipated.
We used to have ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS, right? And now we've got 110, 000 things to watch. Every week, 30 million people would watch Friends, and it wasn't an outlier. I just happened to know about that show. Yeah. So, there's no way! The most popular Game of Thrones finale came nowhere close. And we have to be ready for a huge disintegration of where people are as they move around between social media.
Yes. So you need to own the list. You've got to get your own emails and own your list. So that if MailChimp goes down, you own the list, you download it, you switch, but it's no effect on them. Correct. Yeah. But if Facebook goes down and you've lost 5, 000 people, you don't have a good way of getting back to them.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Right.
Dawn Trautman: Because they also own [00:28:00] Instagram.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I know.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. So it's a lot. But that can't be your main arena. It's secondary.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Okay. Which is a switch in thinking for me.
Dawn Trautman: Because it's pretty big. I'm just thinking, what are we going to want in 2027? We're going to wish we had a big list.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: exactly. And I have probably spent the least amount of time in this kind of communication in my email list.
I've been leaning so much more towards the social media and yeah. I
Dawn Trautman: think the podcast also is a way that people are getting to know you. It's all a part of the thing. Yes. Yeah. But you've got to be able to get to them without any of these intermediary companies where you do not own the content.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Correct.
I do the same thing. I've leaned a lot more into social media than my email list. So I'll be working on that with you too.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, no, it's, I appreciate that because I know for myself, I know that this is a concern, but I know that I am not the only one that's wrestling with this right now.
Dawn Trautman: And I think people, here's the prediction.
We'll have this recorded. I'll either be so wrong and we'll play it later. and it'll be funny. Okay. [00:29:00] People want, as AI is bigger, they're going to want to see real people in front of them. They're going to go to live things because you know for sure you see the words coming out of someone's mouth right in front of you.
They're going to get real books they can touch. They're going to go to live retreats, not online retreats. My people, this will have already happened, but my people, my six month group, I'm sending them a box via Ruth because she's Good at it. I like, they're going to get a real thing in the mail, even though we're connecting online, yeah, like tangible connection as we advertise our business.
I think it will be live speaking engagements, wild goose festival that you've already done yeah. It's going to be that more and more because. People won't know what's real and they'll just say, forget it, I'm out. Yeah. I'll either be super, super wrong or this is going to happen. I mean,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: yeah, I think that's a really important point.
I remember early on in my spiritual quest to find a church that had a bigger tent. I attended a worship retreat. At Mount St. Benedict's [00:30:00] in Erie, Pennsylvania, and it is a monastery. The sisters there are incredible people, and one of the sisters, Sister Carolyn, she would host a quarterly retreat for women in transition, all people who identified as women.
And we would go to this retreat center, and they would feed us. And they would share creative practices with us and they would love on us, whomever we were from whatever background we were. And that was, I don't use the word magic ever, but it was magical that it was such a meaningful experience. Like, I know that because of that face to face experience all the way back then with this small intimate group of people, I know that led to going and applying for that grant for seminary.
Right? Right. Right. Without that. The other would not have come, right? Without that, I wouldn't have imagined of something like ArtistShare, right? Or Holy Shenanigans
Dawn Trautman: Podcast. And you had to be embodied in that first step. That's helpful. So make it possible. to see these people. [00:31:00] Make them come to you, whatever.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah, that's
true.
Dawn Trautman: You're in Chautauqua. It's beautiful. I know.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I'm in Chautauqua County and then I just work just south of there in Warren County. The new church that I am at is a beautiful 200 year old building. Oh, it's just gorgeous stained glass and right on the main street of this very quaint town.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: That's cool.
Dawn Trautman: I would go there for a weekend in the fall, Tuesday through Thursday. Yes,
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: that's a great idea.
Dawn Trautman: My weekends. I just pick a day. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. I love that. Curiously. Yeah. I think that's a really important thing because even as folks talk about the needs to be more engaged in making change in the world, that it's really important that grassroots connection is where we're investing a lot of our time and energy.
Yeah. Yeah. So. That makes sense on spiritual caretaking and creative efforts as well.
Dawn Trautman: So what's your first step?
What can you do in the next two weeks?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I was thinking about actually setting a date for something like a retreat like I [00:32:00] experienced at that Women in Transition.
Dawn Trautman: This is real!
I just was like, I would go to you!
And you're like, actually, it already is happening. Okay.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I was thinking about that this morning.
Dawn Trautman: Within two weeks, you'll have a date, meaning, you know, you've booked a retreat center or you've cleared your church calendar and found a bed and breakfast nearby or what is happening.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: I think it might start with
a baby step of doing a day retreat.
Dawn Trautman: Great.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Setting a date for a day retreat. Because I really, as I was thinking about that experience with those quarterly retreats with Sister Carolyn, I'm like, is there a way to do a Saturday morning four times a year? Totally. Yes, there is.
Dawn Trautman: What is the point of the retreat?
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: To support people in times of spiritual transition and offer creative practices.
Dawn Trautman: Yeah. That can happen.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: I
love it.
Dawn Trautman: Okay. That is independent on parties. It's on social media. That thing is putting a flyer at Target.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: It is.
Dawn Trautman: Or whoever lets you. Starbucks lets you. Yeah. It doesn't need social media. It can be supported by social media, but that can also be grassroots.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Nice.
Dawn Trautman: Awesome.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank [00:33:00] you.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah.
Yeah. I'm so happy that you could be with us today, Tara. This was wonderful. Thank you.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Yeah. And like I said earlier, for so long, I kept thinking that I have to choose things. Even in this invitation you've offered to me to think outside of the social media situation, like I Dawn't just have to choose that.
There are other options. And I think that's an important thing for other folks to hear too. There are other options for them to connect and build community and spiritually. Yes.
Pastor Ruth Hetland: Yeah. So true. Yeah.
Pastor Tara Lamont Eastman: Thank you, Dawn and Ruth, for this wonderful conversation about how each and every one of us are created creative.
I am your Holy Shenanigans Muse, Tara Lamont Eastman. Thank you for joining us for Holy Shenanigans that surprise, encourage, redirect, and turn life upside down. All in the name of love. This is an unpredictable spiritual adventure [00:34:00] that is always sacred, but never stuffy to contribute to the production costs of this podcast.
Go to www. buymeacoffee. com backslash Tara L Eastman. Gratitude once more to Created Creative Podcast, Ruth Hetland and Dawn Trautman for hosting this crossover episode of Holy Shenanigans Podcast. Be sure to listen to Created Creative Podcast on your favorite podcast app. Until next time, let's embrace this new season and spring into full bloom.
Remember that we all are created creative and that our holy shenanigans Transcripts have only just begun.
[00:35:00]
