Three Generations, Same Fight: AI Bias, Women's Confidence, and a Seat at the Table

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What your calendar says today.
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No one can seriously fuck up your life quite as
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magnificently as you can. Yeah. You have the power there.
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You have the power with everything you do. You have
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the power.
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And so if that means you think that your tone
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and AI is decreasing your confidence or other people's perception
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of your confidence in the workplace, stop using it.
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Yeah. I mean, again, we shouldn't use it to run
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all of the things in our lives. Yes. We need
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to know how to do these things, right?
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I mean, if you're not jumping on, you're behind. Right, exactly.
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But you still need to think like a human, right?
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I mean, it's crucial.
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So there we go. Welcome to Her Unshakable Confidence. I'm
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Simone Canego.
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And I'm Olivia Canego.
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Each week, we have honest conversations about confidence, self-doubt, and
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the moments in life that shape who we become.
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Some weeks, we talk with inspiring guests.
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In other weeks, it's just the two of us sharing
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what we're learning along the way.
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So pull up a chair and join the conversation. This
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is Her Unshakable Confidence.
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Welcome to Her Unshakable Confidence. I'm Simone Canego. And I'm
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Olivia Canego.
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And today I wanted to talk about AI usage among
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women because I saw a very interesting article based off
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a study from Forbes and John Hopkins that is titled
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AI can make women sound less sophisticated. Here's what to
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avoid in your prompt.
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I mean, that's crazy, right? Yeah.
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Well, it's, it's crazy that they even did a research
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study on this. Like just, I know how, you know,
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in my head that we're not that far along in
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this AI, you know, revolution, but maybe we are farther
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than I think in my head, it's still 2020. So
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I think we're, we're far beyond that.
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I was going to say it is not 2020 it's 2026. Right.
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Um, so essentially in this study, they were like, uh,
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researchers at John Hopkins did over like 800 plus prompts
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asking AI to write emails, cover letters, resignation letters. And
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then you, they use language patterns more associated with women
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versus patterns more associated with men or men. And they
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found that when they used the prompts that were more
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associated with women, The writing produced was less formal, used
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simpler vocabulary, and was written at a lower grade level.
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And one of the things that I found interesting in it,
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because looking at the examples, and I'm sure you do
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it because this is how we both talk to AI.
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It's like, will you do this thing for me? And
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then first it goes, of course I will. And then
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it writes it out for you. And a man version,
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where it's just like, do this for me, it doesn't
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give you that little prompt in the beginning. It just
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immediately goes into the message that you want it to write.
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That's pretty fascinating, actually.
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Well, I think it's just, it is very fascinating, but
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it's unfortunate that it's just one additional layer that women
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have to focus on within the workplace because it's, you know,
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we're touting AI and I don't know if that's the
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right word, but as something that can simplify our work
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tasks and our workforces and just make life easier. But
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now women have this additional step of like, oh, do
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I need to think extra about my prompts? So I
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come off as more quote unquote sophisticated. Because otherwise people
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will think I'm using simpler languages.
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What do you say? Treat me as a man?
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I think it's all about the way that you use
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your prompts. Because this study a little bit was about like,
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are women less confident or do we just communicate differently?
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And I don't think it's about, well, obviously in part
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it is about confidence and like societal confidence and structures
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that we've imposed on women. But I don't think it
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comes down to individual confidence. I think that's just the
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way women communicate is that we tend to hedge our statements.
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We tend to put like a qualifier in the beginning
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just in case we're wrong versus men. I don't think
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men do that. Yeah.
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I mean, we've learned to do that, right? Right. You know,
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that whole, excuse me, right? The whole, I don't know
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if this is the right thing to say, but, or
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I need a little help on this. Do you think
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you could help me? You know, I mean, yeah, for sure.
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But it's interesting that the training for AI would come
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back to that. Yeah.
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I think that's very fascinating that a machine that shouldn't,
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isn't born or isn't created with bias can then become
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biased based off the information we're feeding them. One of
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the things that I'm reading here is about like the
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collaborative language that women use. So a man may say how,
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like draft this message versus a woman will say, how
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can we draft this message together? And I mean, I
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do think that once again speaks to like how society
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has shaped a woman's role to be more collaborative and communicative.
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That is interesting. I think I have said that in
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quad or chat. Right. Me too. Let's work on like,
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who am I working with?
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Right. Exactly.
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Like. That's not another person.
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And I mean, part of me, and I don't know,
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part of this is like, what if, I'm being paranoid
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in the back of my head, like what if the
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robots take over and I need to be nice to them?
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But I always use like, will you please do this?
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I do that. And I say thank you.
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And it's just like inherent in me to not say
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thank you or please. Like I can't not do it.
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Well, it's funny. I had a friend say to me,
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when the robots come for you, then it's good to
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have said please and thank you. Right.
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But, like, that's, I feel, kind of a rationale of
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why are we thinking robots, because it's innate in us.
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Right.
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As women, to say please and thank you.
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Yeah.
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Not that I think you should go around being rude
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to AI, but, like, AI doesn't have feelings. Like, why
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are we treating... inanimate is not the right word, but, like,
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it's not.
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Well, I think we're expecting it to actually have feelings.
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But I... Yes.
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Okay. Yes.
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Yes. But is that like part of just being a
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woman is that we just, we treat everything as though
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it has feelings and its own distinct emotions.
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That's a really great question. Probably. I mean, you know,
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I watched the remarkably bright creatures movie and I can't eat,
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eat octopus anymore. So, yeah, I mean, you know, uh,
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I know plenty of people who are plenty of men
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who have seen it and they're like, who cares? where
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I have a different level of emotional stuff. I don't know.
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Why do I say that when I talk to my AI?
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Well, is it we just teach compassion differently to girls
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versus boys? I've never raised kids, so I don't know.
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I think we teach everything differently to girls versus boys. 100%.
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I hate to say that, but you do.
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I can't believe it's gotten to the point that it's
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reflected in AI models. Importantly, the researcher in charge of
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this is a woman, which I think is fabulous. And
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her main point here is that women do not need
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to change what they're saying to AI. AI needs to
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improve their models. So it's not bias. And I think
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that's the important thing. Because every article that I've seen
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taken out of this study that's like, oh, this is
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what the study said. It's like, how can women improve
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while using AI? Not like, how can AI models stop
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discriminating against women? And it's interesting. I mean, it's a
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slight use of language, right? but it's such a big
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deal how we word things. Like it's not a woman's
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choice or it shouldn't be our responsibility to fix how
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I talk to AI. AI should just respond to me
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the same way it responds to men. Yeah.
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It is pretty fascinating. I mean, there's certain settings you
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can change. So it doesn't like give you all the like, Oh,
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you're doing such a great job. No, just tell me
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how it is. Like, I don't need you to agree
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with me. Yeah. There are things you can do in
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the settings, but the bias thing is very interesting. And
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I'm curious how, if there's also like a different bias,
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like racial bias, is there?
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Oh, a hundred percent.
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Yeah.
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Um, I don't know about like in that, like the
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workforce context, but when I studied AI, um, for a
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while I worked at the job at the hospital, a
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lot of my issues with obviously besides, you know, you
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have your privacy issues, but if you get into inserting
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patient data in there, you do end up forming biases against,
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you know, a black versus a white patient. Um, and
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like what the treatment course would be, because I don't know,
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AI and bias is just such a fascinating field.
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So what are they going to do about it?
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That's the hard part. I don't know, because I'm like,
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there is this cycle. Women learn to communicate in certain
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cultural ways. AI then recognizes those patterns. And it's not
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like they're hallucinating these patterns. These patterns do exist. Then
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AI in turn, because of these patterns, produces a different
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style of communication other people then read that communication and
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then it starts all over again women are continuing to
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be taught to learn it to speak in this specific
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way and then it's like okay whose responsibility it is
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to break the bias do women really need one more
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thing on their plates is I guess my entire message
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here like why is it it shouldn't be on me um.
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Yeah I mean it is it's just a really interesting
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time right that you have all these systems that can
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tell you how you should be doing things and do
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things differently because you're a woman versus a man. Right.
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And it, it's really leaning into the confidence aspect of
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things because the way you communicate, yes, in part, it
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does dictate your confidence, but I don't think it entirely
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dictates your confidence because, I mean, I do find myself
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speaking in a more reserved tone, less of an authoritative
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tone when I'm in the workplace. But that doesn't reflect
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my confidence. I'm still confident in my abilities in my work.
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I just don't feel the need to, you know, be
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all up in everyone's else's business about it and be
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rude about it and you know maybe that's the thing
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in itself like why do I think speaking that way
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in like a harsh tone not a harsh tone but
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like it just in a you know I'm the boss
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tone is rude men don't think that way.
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Because we've been taught that when you speak up as
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a woman you're considered a bitch.
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Yeah And it's like, it seems like this never ending cycle.
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Right.
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And we'll see, like, will men take this seriously now
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that an AI model is doing it versus, you know,
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women have been telling this for decades, which I think
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would be another fascinating conversation, like believing a machine over
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a woman. But I don't know, like what I've been
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seeing online, the regurgitations of this is women need to
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change themselves. They need to be more confident in the workplace, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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That's not what this is about. Like, and, That's just
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a poor, a misrepresentation of what this study was trying
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to show. It wasn't trying to show that women need
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to change. And I think that that's the horrible takeaway
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from this.
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Well, what it's showing is that there's bias even in
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an AI model that doesn't take women as seriously as
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it does men.
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Right. And, you know, AI is so normalized now. It is,
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I think, everywhere. The only person I actually know that
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doesn't use it is my sister.
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Yeah, for sure. It's funny. Yeah.
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And, like, I mean, I'm not saying everyone uses it for, like,
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literally everything. Like, my bosses at work will be like,
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AI is great for coming up with word choices and
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planning vacations. But we don't use it for anything besides that.
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And I think, like, that's great. But then that's exactly
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the problem. You're using it for your word choices. Your
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word choices are coming off less, quote, unquote, professional because
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of this bias. Yeah. And what do you do? I mean,
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like as a young woman, you're entering the workforce for
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this for the first time. You want to use this
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technology that gives you a leg up. And honestly, it
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doesn't even give you a leg up at this point.
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Not using it puts you a step down.
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Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, you have to embrace
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the stuff that's happening right now. You can't just say, oh, yeah, well, no,
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you do have to embrace it. So that is a
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big piece of it. But, you know, I think that.
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I mean, even the warning label it gives you that, hey,
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we can be wrong, right? Or I can be wrong.
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It's not a person. But the way it says it
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is that, yeah, you got to check everything. So, I mean,
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maybe it isn't the right thing for word choices. Maybe
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it has to be your own word choice. Like we
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can't become so reliant on AI that we can't do stuff,
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you know?
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And maybe this is a step in the right direction
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of saying, hey, we can't be doing everything like this because,
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I mean, I saw another statistic today that was like,
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the workforce is now 19 or like out of CEOs worldwide,
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19% of them are women, which is like the highest
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this has ever been, right? This percentage, but that is
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still not okay. I mean, if you look at my
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law school class, 70% of us are women, but only
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19% of CEOs worldwide are women.
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Yeah. If you look at medical school too, I think
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there's a greater number. I don't know that you can
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look it up real quick as we talk, But I
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think there's a greater number of a percentage of women
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in medical school classes now versus men. But does that
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come out in the marketplace?
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According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, women make
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up roughly 57 percent of applicants and 55 percent of
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matriculants in the recent academic cycles. And this is.
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Yeah. So when you look at who are running the programs.
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Men.
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Very few women. I mean, we have the surgery in
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Gainesville has a woman.
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That's amazing. And she's probably like out of all neurosurgeons worldwide.
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There's probably like maybe 150 of them. I don't know.
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Search that too. Cause that's an interesting statistic.
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I mean, we have our first like female Dean and
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we are relatively new law school. I'm not going to
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harp on like, that's a bad thing, but this is,
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and part of me is like, I'm so excited that
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we have a female Dean and, But a lot of
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her appointment has been around, wow, Belmont's first female Dean.
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What about like, you know, Belmont's Dean is amazing in
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all of the capacities, regardless of her being a woman.
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Cause she is.
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Drives me.
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And it's, it's great. But like we, it's not a
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celebration anymore to be the first women to do this.
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Not like, I don't want to be like rude about it,
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but we should be striving for more than that. Like
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our description should be more than the first female to
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do this.
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Right. It should be like, she's an amazing Dean. Not that,
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you know, she's the first woman. Okay, great. Yes. And yes.
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And that's, that's the important way to say that. Yes.
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But what else has she done? Yeah. She's done amazing things.
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She's a woman. So that there, therefore you're actually taking
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her down a level for any kind of like, okay,
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other Deans in the past. Well, they're all men. We
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can't look at that. You know, it's ridiculous.
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Right. And it's, I mean, it is purely insulting. And
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I think like a lot of listeners would relate to
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this as, you know, whether you describe yourself as just
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a mother or other people in your life describe you
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as just a mother. You're so much more than that.
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And your role is still important. Yes. And. Yeah.
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So, I mean, just because you are the first female something,
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you know, you're still doing an amazing job compared to
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everybody else out there. Like, it's so ridiculous how.
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Like you're the dean of a law school.
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The first female.
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Regardless if you're the first female or not. That's a
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huge accomplishment. Yeah. Anyways, I've been on a high horse
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about women's rights the last couple of weeks. And it's
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a high horse that I deserve to sit on because
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it's insane to me that my grandma was fighting the
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same fight that you were fighting. And it's the same
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fight that I'm still fighting for a seat at the table. Yeah.
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Is that going to get better?
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Right. I don't know.
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I don't know.
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But we just got to keep doing it. Right. We do.
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And it's obviously like, I'm not going to not fight
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for it. It's something that I will have to do
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for the rest of my life. And I'm happy that
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I have the means and the opportunities to do so,
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but it does get exhausting.
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Yeah. It's such an interesting thing to think about that.
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You're right. That we, yes, certain things have changed, but
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so many things have not. Right. In a good way.
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You know, it has changed since grandma's time. There's more
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women in the classroom. There's more than 50% of women
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in med school, right? In her time, it was like
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maybe one, maybe.
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But the big accomplishment is the first female, right?
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Yeah.
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Where it should be normalized that it doesn't matter if
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you're a man or a woman that you're doing an
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amazing job.
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Yeah, I don't.
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That's my two cents. Okay, tell me what your calendar
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says today.
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No one can seriously fuck up your life quite as magnificently.
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As you can. Yeah. You have the power there.
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You have the power. With everything you do, you have
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the power.
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And so if that means you think that your tone
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in AI is decreasing your confidence or other people's perception
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of your confidence in the workplace, stop using it.
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Yeah. I mean, again, we shouldn't use it to run
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all of the things in our lives. Yes, we need
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to know how to do these things, right? Yeah.
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It's like, you know.
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If you're not jumping on, you're behind. Right.
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Exactly.
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But you still need to think like a human, right?
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I mean, it's crucial.
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So there we go.
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Well, thank you for listening to this. And thank you
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for being engaged with me, Mom.
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Yeah.
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I'm probably going to go talk to my friends about
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this for hours afterwards because I think it's so inherently fascinating.
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And thank you for joining us on this week's episode
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of Her Unshakable Confidence. Always remember you are unshakable.
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Bye guys.
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Thank you for listening to Her Unshakable Confidence.
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If this conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe
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and leave a review so more women can find the show.
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Keep trusting yourself.
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You are stronger than you think.
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You are unshakable.
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See you next week.