Amy Cooter

WEBVTT
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War is immoral, poverty is immoral,
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racism is immoral,
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police brutality is immoral,
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oppression is immoral,
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genocide is immoral,
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imperialism is immoral.
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This country represents all those things.
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As children in the Northeast,
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we were told tales about militias out
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West.
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Doomsday preppers with stockpiles of food
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and military weaponry.
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Turns out they're real and merely part of
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a much larger phenomenon.
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One that this week's Global Warning guest
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understands better than most.
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On episode eight, I speak with Amy Kuder,
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an expert and regular consultant on
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extremist groups, domestic militias,
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and what she terms nostalgia groups,
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commonly referred to as right wing or
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patriot.
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I think of the Oath Keepers.
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Co-founder and deputy director of the
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Institute for Countering Digital
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Extremism,
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which houses the Accelerationism Research
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Consortium,
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Amy Kuder's research includes a focus on
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the intersection of whiteness and
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masculinity, a la the Proud Boys,
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how lived experiences shape people's
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attitudes toward nationalism and racism,
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and how this results in group action,
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including from anti-government and other
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extremist groups.
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Her book,
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Nostalgia Nationalism in the US Militia
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Movement,
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is the perfect primer on US militias,
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exploring their complicated history from
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the Revolutionary War through the
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attempted insurrection January sixth.
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Amy provides analysis for tech agencies,
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academics,
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and national security experts around the
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globe.
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She has served as an expert consultant on
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federal hate crime and domestic terrorism
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trials,
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and she has testified to multiple US
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congressional committees.
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Today, on episode eight of Global Warning,
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I talked to Amy Kuder about the biggest
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threats to our democracy online and off,
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accelerationism and its connection to
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domestic terrorism,
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the state of extremist groups and militias
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today,
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the difference between the far right and
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far left,
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and what we can do in our communities
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to fight back and maybe even flourish.
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Remember, be sure to like, comment,
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and share, subscribe,
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and for exclusive extras,
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become an official member.
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Amy, thank you for joining me.
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Sorry about that lengthy introduction,
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but there's a lot to say about you.
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Well,
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thank you so much for having me and
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for your kind words as well.
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I'm really happy to chat today.
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Thanks.
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Well deserved.
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So let's start with the threat.
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Name it and describe it for us.
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What should concern us most?
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You know, I think it's,
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I wish I had a crystal ball.
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I think it's hard to identify just one
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thing.
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And that's what's concerning at this
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moment where we're kind of in a crucible
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where
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Our political environment,
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our broader social structures are really
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fomenting many different grievances,
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people feeling upset about one thing or
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another,
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different figures in the administration,
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legitimizing that grievance and creating a
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situation where several different actors
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or the groups they represent could very
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well lash out,
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particularly as next year approaches with
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twenty twenty six midterms and everything
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that is amplified right now going into our
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electoral politics.
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Yeah, and for some,
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that lashing out and what that could
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result in, that's the goal.
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Take accelerationism,
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a term that may be unfamiliar to some.
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First, explain what it means,
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and then how does this mindset feed into
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domestic terror movements?
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Sure.
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So in short,
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accelerationism is this idea that there's
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something so profoundly wrong with society
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that it can never be fixed through
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normative politics, not through voting,
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not through gradual social change,
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and that ultimately this is going to lead
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to the collapse of society.
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Some people kind of have this as more
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of a philosophical view,
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but we've seen a rise in what we
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call militant accelerationism,
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which is folks who think this is true
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and also think it's their job to make
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that cataclysm happen faster
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so that whatever results will come about
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faster.
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They don't usually have a clear vision of
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what exactly they want the future to look
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like.
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They just assume that it must be better
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than whatever we're dealing with right
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now.
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And we've seen that feed heavily into a
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variety of extremist actions.
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People who, for example,
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commit violence because they think that
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that will then trigger some sort of
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cascading event between the public and the
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police and then result in cataclysms.
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people who groom young children online
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into committing mass shootings or other
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mass violence because they think the same
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thing.
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They think that in addition to the
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violence,
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it's about that corruption of youth that
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will hasten the end of society as we
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know it.
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So accelerationism,
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while sometimes it takes a little bit of
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a back burner to other ideologies or other
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expressions within extremism,
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it's a pretty common through thread that
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we're dealing with right now.
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And what's interesting is that in a lot
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of ways,
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I can kind of understand where they're
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coming from up until the point where they
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want to destroy certain communities to,
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as you said, bring about that cataclysm.
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I don't see what's happening today as
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working for everyone, working for some,
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and that's intentional.
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And I don't see capitalism or incremental
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changes under capitalism necessarily
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working either,
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which puts me in a weird place where
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on that one thing we can relate.
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But I want to get into that later
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because I am very curious about your
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thoughts on how far left extremists might
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relate or not relate to the far right.
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But before we get into that,
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what would you say,
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and if this is even possible,
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is the state of right wing extremism
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today?
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Obviously, it flourishes under Trump.
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Can you describe the growth you've seen,
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the changes you've witnessed,
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perhaps since the day Trump called the
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Nazis at Charlottesville very fine people?
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Yeah, so I'm a big fan of nuance.
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And so it depends a little bit on
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which particular group or entity that
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we're talking about.
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For example, militias right now,
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they're relatively quiet.
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And we think it's probably because the
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administration itself is conducting
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aggressive immigration actions and
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aggressive actions in other ways that they
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feel like their interests there are
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largely being taken care of.
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But if we're thinking across all these
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groups, if we're thinking about neo-Nazis,
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if we're thinking about people we call
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sadistic extortionists or nihilistic
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violent extremists online,
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we've seen a dramatic,
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growth in them.
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And it's because in no small part of
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the legitimization that has occurred in
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this administration and beyond,
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really globally,
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we're seeing this happen too.
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A lot of folks have talked already about
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how we've seen a huge increase in hate
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speech and antisemitism and some of the
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more traditional kinds of extremist
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vectors that we still care about very
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much.
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But I think that what's top of mind
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for me right now is the massive explosion
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in that online behavior that's really
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directed at young kids.
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And it has this accelerationist thread.
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And in addition to ultimately trying to
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groom some of them into mass violence,
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there are these really terrible
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intermediary steps that are sometimes
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linked to white supremacist ideology,
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often linked to misogyny,
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sometimes linked to other stuff, too.
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But then encourage these young kids to
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physically hurt themselves,
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video record it,
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sometimes including sexualized acts.
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And then those kids get effectively
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blackmailed, sometimes their families too,
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into these awful harms that are
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increasingly problematic,
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not just for them,
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but for their whole communities.
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And I think that that's probably kind of
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the newest wave of what we've been talking
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about.
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And it's something that a lot of parents,
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a lot of educators still have never heard
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of.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And that's interesting.
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I was going to ask for more details
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about specific groups,
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but I almost think based on what you've
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said that that's less important than
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getting into further detail about what you
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were just saying.
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Are there any examples of how the digital
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world plays into this and demonstrating
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how these networks
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so successfully recruit to the point that
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maybe we could learn something from them,
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not about what they're recruiting for,
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but how they're doing it?
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Right.
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I think that the answer is yes and
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no there,
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because the online technologies are part
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and parcel of everybody almost daily life
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now.
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And there are probably some negative
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aspects to how that changes how we think
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about other people and engage with other
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people kind of across the board.
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But there's some positive aspects to it
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too.
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So unless we're willing to completely get
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rid of technology,
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I don't know that there are easy answers
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here.
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It's also the case that these groups are
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particularly good at identifying
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vulnerabilities and amplifying them.
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And unfortunately, you know,
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that's something that I think for ethical
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reasons,
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we don't necessarily want to do on the
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flip side.
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But it does tell us some important points
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we can push for
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prevention in terms of having
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conversations like this,
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making people aware that this is a risk,
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that, for example,
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kids as young as eight are being targeted
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on sites like Roblox that are explicitly
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made for young children,
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gradually kind of groomed and shown
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violent images,
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gradually shown sexual images,
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coerced into moving into more private
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servers, other private spaces,
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and then really bombarded with this
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information.
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And so I think that
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both the prevention with the parents and
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also trying to push back on tech companies
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where they've kind of lax in some of
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their restrictions,
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where there are more spaces for them on
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the backside to monitor direct messages or
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other private communications is really
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going to be key here.
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It's so interesting.
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And the reason I inappropriately smiled
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when you were describing that is because
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you brought up Roblox and it reminded me
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of the anti-ice demonstrations happening
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in that video game or that metaverse mini
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world or whatever.
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So that is an example of
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ways that a lack of surveillance and
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control could create a positive effect.
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And that is such an interesting
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conversation.
00:10:38.548 --> 00:10:42.350
How far can we take moderation and
00:10:43.991 --> 00:10:49.216
protection without encroaching on civil
00:10:49.255 --> 00:10:49.736
liberties?
00:10:50.557 --> 00:10:51.957
Yeah, it's a really important question.
00:10:52.178 --> 00:10:54.698
I don't think anybody wants us to degrade
00:10:54.899 --> 00:10:55.580
free speech,
00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:57.419
although I will say some of our peer
00:10:57.460 --> 00:11:01.081
countries do exclude hate speech from free
00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:01.542
speech.
00:11:01.961 --> 00:11:05.102
There's also some really early efforts in
00:11:05.143 --> 00:11:07.663
Congress right now to crack down on
00:11:07.903 --> 00:11:09.644
nihilistic violent extremism and
00:11:09.703 --> 00:11:11.065
specifically the seven, six,
00:11:11.085 --> 00:11:13.164
four network in terms of how they very
00:11:13.184 --> 00:11:14.605
specifically exploit kids.
00:11:15.245 --> 00:11:16.447
But I do think there are some things
00:11:16.486 --> 00:11:17.047
we can do.
00:11:17.106 --> 00:11:17.787
So for example,
00:11:18.499 --> 00:11:21.139
We've seen some cases that as this
00:11:21.179 --> 00:11:23.900
behavior escalates, the groomers,
00:11:23.921 --> 00:11:26.101
the people who are pushing kids deeper
00:11:26.182 --> 00:11:27.022
into this space,
00:11:27.363 --> 00:11:30.504
will send hundreds of DMs an hour trying
00:11:30.543 --> 00:11:32.304
to make it where this kid can't focus
00:11:32.384 --> 00:11:33.085
on anything else,
00:11:33.105 --> 00:11:35.865
just be really overwhelming and take up
00:11:35.885 --> 00:11:37.005
their entire consciousness.
00:11:37.046 --> 00:11:39.226
That's not a normal way to communicate.
00:11:39.267 --> 00:11:40.988
There are some other signals that are
00:11:41.087 --> 00:11:43.389
favorably unique to the space that would
00:11:43.589 --> 00:11:45.210
yield some starting points without
00:11:45.250 --> 00:11:46.909
necessarily restricting what other people
00:11:46.950 --> 00:11:48.030
are doing on those sites.
00:11:49.104 --> 00:11:52.485
great great idea now let's talk about the
00:11:52.546 --> 00:11:55.947
response from individuals um you know
00:11:56.047 --> 00:11:58.947
outside of the big tech um we have
00:11:59.368 --> 00:12:01.950
umbrella groups now like fifty fifty one
00:12:02.090 --> 00:12:05.451
organizing no kings rallies um we've got
00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:07.932
the always unheralded local organizers
00:12:07.971 --> 00:12:09.472
feeding and housing their neighbors
00:12:09.932 --> 00:12:13.076
And we have now entire communities
00:12:13.157 --> 00:12:15.259
perfecting communications and defense
00:12:15.298 --> 00:12:18.782
practices against federal agencies and
00:12:19.043 --> 00:12:19.923
local cops.
00:12:20.464 --> 00:12:20.865
Of course,
00:12:20.924 --> 00:12:22.846
these activities are criminalized,
00:12:23.847 --> 00:12:26.529
even when it's predominantly liberal
00:12:26.671 --> 00:12:28.231
audience or liberal actors.
00:12:29.453 --> 00:12:31.537
Are there also far left militias out
00:12:31.557 --> 00:12:31.837
there?
00:12:32.138 --> 00:12:33.559
Are they behind the scenes?
00:12:34.402 --> 00:12:36.745
If so, what are they up to?
00:12:36.806 --> 00:12:37.967
What is your take on them?
00:12:38.347 --> 00:12:40.451
And should they be classified alongside
00:12:40.511 --> 00:12:41.933
the likes of Atomwaffens?
00:12:43.082 --> 00:12:44.443
You know, the short answer is yes,
00:12:44.464 --> 00:12:45.065
they exist.
00:12:45.664 --> 00:12:48.927
Most of them balk really hard at the
00:12:48.967 --> 00:12:50.048
label of militia.
00:12:50.089 --> 00:12:52.051
But if we're talking about people who are
00:12:52.230 --> 00:12:52.551
armed,
00:12:52.591 --> 00:12:54.413
who have certain anti-government
00:12:54.452 --> 00:12:55.153
tendencies,
00:12:55.193 --> 00:12:57.035
who get together and train with their
00:12:57.076 --> 00:12:59.116
firearms and train to do other kinds of
00:12:59.136 --> 00:13:00.118
community intervention,
00:13:00.739 --> 00:13:03.581
those core elements look the same as the
00:13:03.620 --> 00:13:05.342
more right-oriented militias that I've
00:13:05.682 --> 00:13:06.903
studied for two decades.
00:13:07.605 --> 00:13:08.725
And I think that
00:13:09.321 --> 00:13:10.061
that frankly,
00:13:10.081 --> 00:13:12.481
we need to do more work with them,
00:13:12.581 --> 00:13:13.763
understanding their motives,
00:13:13.802 --> 00:13:15.243
understanding what their goals are,
00:13:15.283 --> 00:13:17.744
because just to be honest,
00:13:18.104 --> 00:13:19.884
the more right wing oriented ones have
00:13:19.945 --> 00:13:22.164
kept me very busy and I haven't dug
00:13:22.205 --> 00:13:23.686
into them as much as I would like.
00:13:24.706 --> 00:13:25.706
And also,
00:13:25.826 --> 00:13:27.407
at least from the outside perspective,
00:13:27.466 --> 00:13:30.788
they're a little bit more responsible with
00:13:30.807 --> 00:13:31.548
their OPSEC.
00:13:31.568 --> 00:13:33.729
They're less trusting sometimes than some
00:13:33.769 --> 00:13:34.990
of the right wing ones have been.
00:13:35.009 --> 00:13:36.831
And we just plain know less about them
00:13:36.870 --> 00:13:38.091
from the outside perspective.
00:13:38.666 --> 00:13:39.986
I want to be really clear that I
00:13:40.027 --> 00:13:42.307
think that of those that I encounter,
00:13:42.347 --> 00:13:44.708
the vast majority of them see themselves
00:13:44.849 --> 00:13:45.730
as defensive,
00:13:45.830 --> 00:13:49.511
as resisting illegal government,
00:13:49.591 --> 00:13:50.331
often actions,
00:13:50.371 --> 00:13:52.133
but other harmful actions that are coming
00:13:52.192 --> 00:13:53.854
into their communities and situations
00:13:53.874 --> 00:13:55.274
where they can't rely on the police.
00:13:55.294 --> 00:13:56.975
They can't rely on other aspects of the
00:13:57.015 --> 00:13:59.376
government to defend them in ways that
00:13:59.456 --> 00:14:01.018
other communities might be defended.
00:14:01.831 --> 00:14:03.332
But at least hypothetically,
00:14:03.373 --> 00:14:05.192
there is also a concern that some of
00:14:05.212 --> 00:14:08.134
them might be plotting some kind of attack
00:14:08.235 --> 00:14:09.794
or political violence that we wouldn't
00:14:09.835 --> 00:14:12.556
necessarily want to endorse.
00:14:12.716 --> 00:14:13.275
Interesting.
00:14:13.476 --> 00:14:16.278
I would say ninety nine percent of that
00:14:16.317 --> 00:14:18.778
is exactly what I wanted to hear.
00:14:18.818 --> 00:14:20.178
And if it wasn't clear to you or
00:14:20.239 --> 00:14:20.538
others,
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.659
I'm not what they might call an objective
00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:23.360
journalist.
00:14:23.379 --> 00:14:26.341
You know, it's pretty clear where I stand.
00:14:27.662 --> 00:14:29.143
And maybe you could just take me a
00:14:29.342 --> 00:14:32.163
little bit into the last point you made.
00:14:32.384 --> 00:14:36.524
Is there an example of violence of any
00:14:36.565 --> 00:14:36.945
kind?
00:14:36.985 --> 00:14:38.245
Because for me, at least,
00:14:38.304 --> 00:14:40.666
violence against people and violence
00:14:40.706 --> 00:14:42.567
against private property, for instance,
00:14:42.606 --> 00:14:43.486
are very different.
00:14:43.986 --> 00:14:46.168
Are there any forms of violence that you
00:14:46.207 --> 00:14:48.188
wouldn't officially endorse, of course,
00:14:48.229 --> 00:14:51.049
but would see differently than kind of
00:14:51.110 --> 00:14:52.149
what we were hinting at?
00:14:53.173 --> 00:14:53.754
Yeah, you know,
00:14:54.235 --> 00:14:57.316
I try to keep my personal politics a
00:14:57.355 --> 00:14:59.057
little bit away from how I frame the
00:14:59.096 --> 00:15:00.538
research because I think that it's
00:15:00.557 --> 00:15:03.458
important to try to maintain some academic
00:15:03.818 --> 00:15:05.200
objectivity on certain issues.
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:07.240
But I will say I definitely agree with
00:15:07.280 --> 00:15:10.842
you that traditionally we have seen that
00:15:10.903 --> 00:15:13.744
left-oriented actors don't always succeed,
00:15:13.783 --> 00:15:17.225
but usually take great care to target
00:15:17.745 --> 00:15:20.145
property and make sure as much as they
00:15:20.186 --> 00:15:22.488
can that individuals won't be present in a
00:15:22.528 --> 00:15:24.749
building that they're planning some bomb
00:15:24.828 --> 00:15:26.590
or demonstration or whatever at.
00:15:27.510 --> 00:15:28.051
Historically,
00:15:28.071 --> 00:15:30.413
we've also seen just much lower levels of
00:15:30.452 --> 00:15:32.234
violence that could be attributed to
00:15:32.313 --> 00:15:34.134
anything left wing.
00:15:34.254 --> 00:15:36.076
I will say we're in this moment where
00:15:36.155 --> 00:15:38.898
it's harder to fully differentiate between
00:15:38.937 --> 00:15:40.818
traditional right versus left structures.
00:15:41.325 --> 00:15:42.245
because ideologies,
00:15:42.285 --> 00:15:44.366
because perspectives on the government are
00:15:44.606 --> 00:15:47.208
messier than they have been at some points
00:15:47.288 --> 00:15:48.089
in our history.
00:15:48.629 --> 00:15:50.990
And we definitely don't have a clear
00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:54.173
instance of some left-oriented group doing
00:15:54.214 --> 00:15:57.875
the same level of violence or what we
00:15:57.975 --> 00:15:58.615
usually call,
00:15:58.655 --> 00:15:59.897
before it's been politicized,
00:15:59.917 --> 00:16:02.438
domestic terrorism that we've seen for the
00:16:02.499 --> 00:16:05.120
last many decades in this particular
00:16:05.160 --> 00:16:05.581
country.
00:16:06.322 --> 00:16:06.822
There has been
00:16:07.335 --> 00:16:10.118
quite a bit of rhetoric about the concerns
00:16:10.158 --> 00:16:12.279
coming up next year as our governmental
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:14.101
systems are seen as less and less
00:16:14.162 --> 00:16:15.883
responsive to many people's needs.
00:16:15.903 --> 00:16:16.943
And I think that that's what we're
00:16:16.984 --> 00:16:18.525
monitoring for and concerned about.
00:16:19.490 --> 00:16:20.532
Yeah, and in a way,
00:16:20.611 --> 00:16:22.513
not to be an accelerationist,
00:16:22.573 --> 00:16:27.256
but identifying the ways that average
00:16:27.297 --> 00:16:29.739
people or the predominance of people are
00:16:29.818 --> 00:16:35.984
not being cared for, and the fact that,
00:16:36.063 --> 00:16:36.825
as you put it,
00:16:36.884 --> 00:16:40.788
that there's a blurring of left and right
00:16:40.947 --> 00:16:43.409
and thoughts about our government,
00:16:44.490 --> 00:16:46.513
perhaps it's an opportunity to
00:16:47.909 --> 00:16:49.910
Organized as the ninety nine percent
00:16:49.951 --> 00:16:52.292
again, since we all have that in common,
00:16:52.312 --> 00:16:55.774
that we are all oppressed by the
00:16:55.894 --> 00:16:58.095
oligarchy, by the one percent.
00:16:59.956 --> 00:17:00.196
You know,
00:17:00.316 --> 00:17:02.476
any thoughts on that at a time when
00:17:03.037 --> 00:17:06.038
Antifa, whatever that may mean,
00:17:06.959 --> 00:17:10.740
anarchists even carrying zines have all
00:17:10.780 --> 00:17:12.342
been criminalized?
00:17:13.205 --> 00:17:14.465
Yeah, I, you know,
00:17:14.986 --> 00:17:17.567
I genuinely think that it takes all of
00:17:17.646 --> 00:17:18.686
us to fight fascism.
00:17:18.967 --> 00:17:19.767
I just do.
00:17:19.906 --> 00:17:21.228
I think that there are a lot of
00:17:21.268 --> 00:17:25.449
folks who have started very slowly to
00:17:25.709 --> 00:17:27.548
understand what an administration that
00:17:27.568 --> 00:17:29.888
they previously supported might be doing
00:17:29.909 --> 00:17:31.690
that is harmful to them and harmful to
00:17:31.710 --> 00:17:32.509
their communities.
00:17:33.109 --> 00:17:35.351
And I have a lot of activist friends,
00:17:35.371 --> 00:17:37.351
a lot of even academic friends who
00:17:38.057 --> 00:17:39.759
aren't willing to open up the ranks to
00:17:39.819 --> 00:17:40.000
them.
00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:40.980
And I get that.
00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.522
I get the concerns about not just
00:17:43.623 --> 00:17:44.303
accountability,
00:17:44.343 --> 00:17:45.984
but also really understanding.
00:17:47.286 --> 00:17:50.848
But I personally think that anybody who is
00:17:50.909 --> 00:17:54.171
willing to stand up and fight some of
00:17:54.191 --> 00:17:56.292
the problems that we are very much facing
00:17:56.333 --> 00:17:58.615
right now that will absolutely get worse
00:17:58.714 --> 00:18:01.237
if we cannot get more organized and
00:18:01.653 --> 00:18:03.315
They should be included in this and then
00:18:03.355 --> 00:18:04.895
we can sit them down and have longer
00:18:04.936 --> 00:18:06.718
term conversations about why their
00:18:06.738 --> 00:18:08.820
behavior contributed to where we are.
00:18:09.560 --> 00:18:11.624
I think we have to stop the wall
00:18:11.683 --> 00:18:13.385
rolling down the hill before we can break
00:18:13.425 --> 00:18:15.607
it into constituent pieces personally.
00:18:16.536 --> 00:18:18.636
yeah i i totally agree and as long
00:18:18.676 --> 00:18:21.939
as you're prioritizing infosec and opsec
00:18:21.959 --> 00:18:24.780
and you're not bringing in current nazis
00:18:25.121 --> 00:18:27.082
you know people as an abolitionist i
00:18:27.122 --> 00:18:29.042
clearly believe that anyone can be
00:18:29.083 --> 00:18:31.644
transformed and to your point a lot of
00:18:31.684 --> 00:18:34.605
people um who voted for trump are seeing
00:18:34.625 --> 00:18:37.347
the results and and starting to think um
00:18:37.508 --> 00:18:38.808
outside of that box
00:18:39.328 --> 00:18:40.849
And it reminded me just of all the
00:18:40.910 --> 00:18:43.152
people who are like, you voted for Trump,
00:18:43.211 --> 00:18:44.011
you should suffer.
00:18:44.231 --> 00:18:45.973
That is not something I agree with
00:18:46.153 --> 00:18:47.013
whatsoever.
00:18:47.134 --> 00:18:49.655
And it's not a leftist ideology
00:18:49.695 --> 00:18:50.376
whatsoever.
00:18:50.436 --> 00:18:53.078
So people who are thinking that way should
00:18:53.118 --> 00:18:53.898
reconsider.
00:18:53.919 --> 00:18:54.298
I agree.
00:18:54.318 --> 00:18:56.921
I also just want to add too really
00:18:56.961 --> 00:18:57.461
quickly,
00:18:57.602 --> 00:18:59.262
I think that a lot of folks who
00:18:59.343 --> 00:19:00.784
have that perspective,
00:19:01.501 --> 00:19:03.804
still don't fully understand the echo
00:19:03.824 --> 00:19:05.505
chambers that many of those folks found
00:19:05.525 --> 00:19:06.164
themselves in,
00:19:06.224 --> 00:19:07.546
not just because of Fox News,
00:19:07.586 --> 00:19:08.727
but because of their communities,
00:19:08.767 --> 00:19:10.468
because of what their actual day-to-day
00:19:10.508 --> 00:19:12.569
concerns were and the people who weren't
00:19:12.609 --> 00:19:14.391
necessarily coming to talk to them in a
00:19:14.431 --> 00:19:15.152
different way.
00:19:15.672 --> 00:19:16.673
And so, yeah,
00:19:16.692 --> 00:19:18.213
we have to talk about accountability.
00:19:18.233 --> 00:19:19.575
We have to talk about understanding,
00:19:19.654 --> 00:19:20.555
but we have to get to the point
00:19:20.575 --> 00:19:21.415
we can do that first.
00:19:23.259 --> 00:19:24.681
Yeah, really well said.
00:19:25.061 --> 00:19:27.104
So we're up against the time.
00:19:27.183 --> 00:19:30.326
So it's about perfect to ask you,
00:19:31.366 --> 00:19:33.890
are you seeing any signs of progress?
00:19:34.589 --> 00:19:35.391
What's working?
00:19:35.510 --> 00:19:37.252
And what can the average person do to
00:19:37.292 --> 00:19:39.454
protect against far right extremism
00:19:40.175 --> 00:19:41.576
growing in their communities?
00:19:42.506 --> 00:19:42.726
You know,
00:19:42.766 --> 00:19:44.246
it's tough and it's probably not a three
00:19:44.266 --> 00:19:44.866
minute answer,
00:19:45.146 --> 00:19:46.946
but I think the biggest thing.
00:19:47.326 --> 00:19:48.487
That's okay, by the way,
00:19:48.527 --> 00:19:49.667
we always go over.
00:19:50.028 --> 00:19:51.627
So start from the beginning.
00:19:51.867 --> 00:19:52.528
Cool.
00:19:53.288 --> 00:19:55.528
You know, it's not glamorous.
00:19:55.568 --> 00:19:56.888
It's not an easy thing.
00:19:56.909 --> 00:19:59.089
But I think the biggest thing is trying
00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:00.490
to know your community,
00:20:00.529 --> 00:20:03.250
being willing to confront your own
00:20:03.270 --> 00:20:05.592
barriers and your own biases that may very
00:20:05.612 --> 00:20:07.271
well have come up for good reasons.
00:20:07.939 --> 00:20:09.960
but that nonetheless may be real barriers
00:20:10.019 --> 00:20:12.661
to us moving forward from this point,
00:20:12.861 --> 00:20:16.362
trying to understand that we should have
00:20:16.402 --> 00:20:17.383
hard conversations,
00:20:17.442 --> 00:20:19.063
not just with people we already agree
00:20:19.103 --> 00:20:19.403
with,
00:20:19.423 --> 00:20:21.483
but try to talk to people about why
00:20:21.503 --> 00:20:22.845
they believe what they believe.
00:20:22.904 --> 00:20:24.585
And you may never agree with them.
00:20:24.645 --> 00:20:26.066
You may never change their mind,
00:20:26.086 --> 00:20:27.967
but you may at least understand better
00:20:28.007 --> 00:20:29.426
about where they're coming from and what
00:20:29.467 --> 00:20:31.827
started that thinking in the first place.
00:20:31.928 --> 00:20:33.709
In terms of more active extremists,
00:20:34.154 --> 00:20:35.756
I think it's really important to try to
00:20:35.816 --> 00:20:38.678
know which groups might be active in your
00:20:38.857 --> 00:20:39.317
area.
00:20:39.758 --> 00:20:40.898
The SPLC,
00:20:40.979 --> 00:20:42.700
I don't always fully endorse them just to
00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:43.921
be totally honest,
00:20:43.961 --> 00:20:46.102
but they maintain a pretty good map of
00:20:46.201 --> 00:20:49.044
which groups are active in given states
00:20:49.104 --> 00:20:49.624
and areas.
00:20:49.644 --> 00:20:50.785
And it's a good starting point.
00:20:50.825 --> 00:20:52.586
Familiarize yourself with some of the
00:20:52.726 --> 00:20:56.508
taglines, some of the most common icons.
00:20:56.567 --> 00:20:58.169
And if you see something tagged around
00:20:58.209 --> 00:20:58.429
town,
00:20:58.449 --> 00:21:00.150
you at least know what's likely there.
00:21:00.838 --> 00:21:02.200
Be willing to stand up and support your
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.342
neighbors who may be targeted before you
00:21:04.521 --> 00:21:04.721
are.
00:21:05.261 --> 00:21:06.742
And I think people who are in leadership
00:21:06.782 --> 00:21:07.203
positions,
00:21:07.223 --> 00:21:08.785
whether it's in government and schools and
00:21:08.825 --> 00:21:09.806
churches or whatever,
00:21:10.306 --> 00:21:12.146
really ought to go ahead and think hard
00:21:12.528 --> 00:21:14.689
now about what they're going to do if
00:21:14.729 --> 00:21:16.931
something awful happens in their community
00:21:16.971 --> 00:21:18.652
because of some extremist action.
00:21:19.373 --> 00:21:22.095
And be prepared to have a plan already
00:21:22.134 --> 00:21:22.535
about that.
00:21:22.595 --> 00:21:24.016
How are you going to support those folks?
00:21:24.115 --> 00:21:25.958
What are you going to say publicly,
00:21:26.057 --> 00:21:27.638
even if it happens across town and you
00:21:27.659 --> 00:21:29.339
don't know anybody directly involved?
00:21:29.963 --> 00:21:31.484
important to speak out and say, hey,
00:21:31.525 --> 00:21:33.326
there is a community here who cares about
00:21:33.385 --> 00:21:33.506
you.
00:21:33.546 --> 00:21:35.948
Not everybody's a Nazi or whatever it is
00:21:35.988 --> 00:21:37.169
in that particular case.
00:21:37.709 --> 00:21:40.049
And be willing to really think about what
00:21:40.109 --> 00:21:42.412
it means to have a democracy where not
00:21:42.511 --> 00:21:44.272
everybody's going to agree with you,
00:21:44.313 --> 00:21:47.454
but we should at least agree that we
00:21:47.515 --> 00:21:49.096
should try to support each other,
00:21:49.175 --> 00:21:50.797
should try to make sure everybody has a
00:21:50.836 --> 00:21:54.179
voice in this process and avoid some of
00:21:54.199 --> 00:21:56.260
the folks who want to divide us and
00:21:56.320 --> 00:21:57.761
make it where we can't have these
00:21:57.781 --> 00:21:58.382
conversations.
00:21:59.659 --> 00:22:00.820
Well, that was fire,
00:22:00.861 --> 00:22:02.403
so I'm glad we took the time.
00:22:02.863 --> 00:22:04.005
Thank you, Amy.
00:22:04.685 --> 00:22:06.548
I wasn't sure where this would go if
00:22:06.587 --> 00:22:11.315
we would leave feeling afraid or inspired,
00:22:11.515 --> 00:22:12.896
and I'm glad it's the latter.
00:22:12.936 --> 00:22:14.538
There's a lot that we face,
00:22:14.558 --> 00:22:16.882
but there are opportunities for progress.
00:22:17.962 --> 00:22:20.183
And I'm really glad that we were able
00:22:20.243 --> 00:22:22.885
to share some of those today.
00:22:22.925 --> 00:22:23.826
For those listening,
00:22:24.165 --> 00:22:25.446
to learn more from Amy,
00:22:25.507 --> 00:22:27.268
visit amycooter.com.
00:22:27.647 --> 00:22:29.088
And if you've enjoyed this edition of
00:22:29.128 --> 00:22:31.309
Global Warning, be sure to like, comment,
00:22:31.349 --> 00:22:31.930
and share.
00:22:32.371 --> 00:22:34.031
Check out this and the first seven
00:22:34.092 --> 00:22:35.672
episodes, subscribe,
00:22:35.711 --> 00:22:37.053
and for exclusive extras,
00:22:37.113 --> 00:22:38.294
become an official member.
00:22:38.894 --> 00:22:40.734
Episode eight of Global Warning has been
00:22:40.795 --> 00:22:43.036
sponsored by Zevo Life Superfood,
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Exclusive discounts using code WARNING.
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Link in video description.
00:22:54.962 --> 00:22:57.163
Thank you again to our guest, Amy.
00:22:57.344 --> 00:22:58.263
You were amazing.
00:22:58.865 --> 00:23:02.526
And stay tuned for episode nine.
00:23:02.567 --> 00:23:03.267
Thank you so much.
00:23:04.712 --> 00:23:07.496
War is immoral, poverty is immoral,
00:23:07.797 --> 00:23:09.077
racism is immoral,
00:23:09.338 --> 00:23:11.040
police brutality is immoral,
00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:12.402
oppression is immoral,
00:23:12.622 --> 00:23:13.824
genocide is immoral,
00:23:14.023 --> 00:23:15.425
imperialism is immoral.
00:23:15.665 --> 00:23:17.868
This country represents all those things.