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00:00:11.519The front line of policing is loud, but the voices behind it, you know, they're a lot louder and I think, frankly, a lot more interesting.
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00:00:14.800Hi, I'm Bob Plaschke, and this is First Response.
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00:00:27.280This is the uh number one podcast that takes you behind the badge and uncovers real stories and experiences of first responders from all walks of life and the topics that shape public safety today.
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00:00:36.000If you're curious about the guy or the gal behind the hero, and they are indeed truly heroes, and the topics that they care about, take a listen.
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00:00:42.640This is kind of your front row seat to hearing some of the really interesting voices out there and more importantly, the heroes.
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00:00:47.359This podcast is sponsored by PepperBall, where I have the honor to serve as CEO.
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00:00:54.000PepperBall creates unlethal alternatives to guns at least used to keep themselves and the public safe.
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00:01:12.879Today I'm excited to be joined by what I consider a friend and uh uh a real uh uh significant uh presence in policing um over the last 30 years.
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00:01:28.239Assistant chief of police now retired, Ed Wessing, uh spent 30 years at Mesa, Arizona, and Mesa is one of the top 100 police agencies in the United States um located right next to Phoenix.
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00:01:52.079Chief Wessing joined Mesa coming out of eight years of the Marines uh serving his country, and then transitioned into what many folks from the Marines and from the armed forces do uh transitioned into police, into if they were protecting us outside the borders, it's uh protecting us kind of inside, so to speak, and inside Mesa.
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00:02:21.840Um he spent 30 years working up his way up through the ranks at Mesa, uh, was for many years the uh uh police um uh information officer, PIO, and which is the the kind of the spokesperson to the community to try to explain uh what policing is and and how to uh develop good relationships with the community, and then um uh worked his way up to being assistant chief up until retiring just a few months ago.
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00:02:26.719Uh Chief Wessing and I have had a chance to uh meet and uh work together.
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00:02:37.120Uh and uh just a real um uh great example of what I think of as policing and and the leadership in the United States and policing the United States.
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00:02:42.159So Chief Wessing, and if you don't mind if I can call you Ed, given that uh we've known each other for so long.
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00:02:45.280Um thanks so much for joining.
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00:02:51.680Um and you know, the first question for you is um, how does it feel to be retired?
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00:02:54.319It's now three, three, four months.
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00:02:56.879Yeah, well, uh thanks for having me, Bob.
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00:03:00.400First of all, uh I appreciate the time we have spent together.
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00:03:06.400Um, you really do have a good team surrounding you as well, uh, with those that I've met from Pepperball.
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00:03:13.199Um, you know, it's uh the first couple months are just a time to uh relax and spend some time with my family.
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00:03:20.240And um there's been many days where I'm wondering why my phone's not, you know, going off in the middle of the night.
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00:03:30.879And um you get these phantom vibrations from your phone that's always going off all the time, and uh and you realize I don't have to carry two phones around anymore.
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00:03:48.159Um, and uh then you realize pretty quickly how much the job really takes from you over time, and not just you personally, but also from your family, because now you're engaged, and when you're here, uh you're really here.
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00:03:56.000Um, more often than not, even when I was spending time with family and vacations, your mind is always on hey, is everyone okay at work?
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00:03:59.039Um, are you know are we doing what we need to be doing?
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00:04:01.520Um, did we do everything the right way?
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00:04:12.080And uh now you can be more focused on things that matter in your personal life, which unfortunately sometimes I didn't always pay as much attention as I should have because I focused more on the job.
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00:04:14.560So in that respect, it's it's feeling good.
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00:04:17.199Oh, I'm I'm glad for your wife.
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00:04:44.240The um, you know, uh but it immediately raises the the point that unlike every other job I can think of, minus uh being a firefighter or an EMS, uh you are in a constant um uh not state of anxiety, but you are uh the the stakes are high in any given moment, something significant can happen.
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00:04:47.199One of your officers can be involved in a shooting.
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00:04:52.240Um uh there could be a a serious uh crime or a situation.
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00:04:57.199And that um not only can it happen daily, it it kind of does happen daily.
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00:05:17.360And and so when the phone rings, you know, and when it when and as I understand it from police, when they have to call the chief, it it you know it is something significant and something serious, and serious, not in the context of, you know, hey, I I lost that customer or I didn't get that deal or you know, the software didn't work.
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00:05:23.120It's you know, it's someone's life uh on the line uh when that phone call comes.
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00:05:31.759Yeah, you know, I knew when the phone went off in the middle of the night, we unfortunately were involved in a critical incident.
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00:05:44.399Uh one of my officers possibly was injured in a collision or something like that, or some significant community event that we knew we were going to be gone for the next you know 12 to 24 hours dealing with.
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00:05:54.399Um, and so you know, you knew immediately, all right, if the phone's ringing, um, I'm getting my uniform on and we're heading out the door uh pretty quickly thereafter.
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00:06:00.319How uh how long and maybe you never get used to it.
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00:06:12.079I mean, I you know the the notion that that someone we would call and tell you that someone's lost their life, whether it be an officer in the in the worst case or it's always worst case if anyone loses their life.
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00:06:20.480But the the the notion of the significance of those events, did that take you some time to get used to, or do you ever get used to it?
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00:06:37.920I I don't know if you get used to it, but you learn ways to cope and deal with it because you know uh going back to being in the military, you know, you really you you have a sense of purpose, and the mission is more important than your personal feelings on the issue.
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00:06:49.120And you understand immediately the impact that whatever happened has not only on maybe a community member or a whole community, but also the men and women that are entrusted to you.
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00:07:01.279And so you quickly switch to how this is impacting me to how am I going to positively impact this event for those that were actually doing uh the job that we asked them to do.
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00:07:16.560And so for me, that the way I dealt with it is by uh immersing myself in how do I uh make this event better for not only our officers and our you know civilian staff that worked uh on these events, uh, but also those in the community.
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00:07:31.839Um and and quite honestly, I think that's the way most law enforcement officers are wired, and that's how they cope with a lot of these things because they're doing it uh in the the perspective of service uh and to the community that they took an oath to serve.
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00:07:37.360And then, you know, you deal with the after effects uh after the incident.
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00:07:50.319Um, and you know, for me, I it was I had a lot of personal outlets, uh whether it be fitness activities or spending time on the golf course or my outlet was always music.
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00:07:56.480Um, and uh I was able to cope with a lot of those uh stresses, you know, for so long.
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00:08:04.720Unfortunately, as we've seen and with wellness-related first responders, uh, it's been a challenge across the country for for many.
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00:08:06.000It is.
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00:08:17.920I think unfortunately, the suicide rate amongst uh police officers is four or five times higher than the average um suicide rate for uh the normal citizen.
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00:08:29.439And it completely makes sense given the amount of trauma that uh one experiences, or at least from what I've uh what you and others have told me, experience.
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00:08:45.120I love the way that you talk about the mission, though, that the in effect the mission is the you keep the eye on the ball and the ball and the mission is the is the is what you focus on and and that you and and the people that you work with are there to keep the community safe.
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00:08:53.200And you know what, that job doesn't go away almost that that job is omnipresent, it never goes away almost independent of what happens.
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00:08:56.480You have to kind of step back up and and kind of fight through it.
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00:09:00.879Uh and I think that's a you know, that's why I love serving this community.
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00:09:04.080It's you know that you put the mission and the community first.
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00:09:05.120Yeah.
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00:09:09.120Um, certainly uh that should be always our focus.
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00:09:22.639And you know, at times you get cynical in your career, and uh, you know, it's always important to set as one of your cultural focus points in your organization is to remember our purpose is to serve the community.
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00:09:42.559Um and so, particularly in this last uh decade, as things have changed socially, the importance of building relationships with the community um are so important so that when there is tragedy, there is a crisis, you've already got established relationships uh with the affected communities uh in the cities or states that you serve.
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00:09:49.519Um and you know, we're doing a lot better today than we were 30 years ago in that respect for sure.
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00:09:50.720Well, talk about that.
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00:09:55.279I mean, that you you can now, after a few months um retired, you can look back.
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00:10:11.679Um, how has policing changed uh from the perspective of how the community maybe treated you when you were first on the job to kind of over the over the last 30 years, and then how you've and your colleagues look at the job?
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00:10:16.080Boy, that's a tough question to answer because it's really generational.
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00:10:28.000Um and uh you know, if you look at uh some of the biggest changes, I mean, obviously, we could talk about technology and and how when I started uh we didn't even have email.
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00:10:34.480Um, you know, we had a small data terminal in our car that was about three inches.
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00:10:48.159Um and and and now our officers have fully functional uh computers in their car, they're it's you know, body worn cameras, I mean, uh all these technological tools that they have.
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00:11:04.399Um, and you know, and this younger generation, they come into this job and they're already programmed in a sense of being accepting of that technology, where some of your older generational uh cops are it's much more of a difficult transition.
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00:11:10.480Um, because I'm sure you've heard this, but cops hate change, but they also demand change at the same time.
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00:11:26.559Um but you know, talk if we go back to community engagement, you know, I can remember 20 years ago, if you'd asked me as a as a patrol officer what that meant, none of us would have been able to give you a straight answer.
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00:11:39.519You know, because we were more focused on the broken windows philosophy of of community policing, and there really wasn't a true um you know direction on how do we build relationships.
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00:11:53.679And then we started to see that change in the early 2000s where um we started to develop actual relationships and develop protocols on what's expected of every individual in the organization.
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00:12:01.600Because every time you contact somebody, it's an opportunity to put a little bit of that goodwill that you've developed into that bank of community trust.
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00:12:20.799And you're hoping that through instilling community good community policing strategies, that you're filling you know that that bank of good trust because inevitably something bad is gonna happen, and if you haven't established those relationships, um your community is gonna struggle through that that period.
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00:12:33.120And I and I gotta be honest with you, we even now have an expectation where our patrol officers are getting credit for spending time with the community.
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00:12:42.639You see, 20 years ago, you got credit for how many arrests you had, how many citations you wrote, how many reports you wrote, how many backups, how many warrants.
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00:12:44.559And those are all good metrics.
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00:13:01.200Um, but we knew that our officers were spending quality time with community, whether it's stopping in one of our impoverished communities and playing basketball with some kids in the park, um, whether it's working with some of the business community or the religious community, but they weren't even getting credit for it.
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00:13:03.679So we've really changed that paradigm.
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00:13:10.960And once you start to incentivize that type of uh performance, it really I think started to blossom.
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00:13:16.639And so you can never lose focus on reducing crime and relentlessly pursuing criminals.
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00:13:19.759Um, but there has to be a focus on connecting with the community.
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00:13:23.600I think that's changed significantly over the past 20 years.
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00:13:28.080Uh, and the community expectations of that have changed in the last 20 years.
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00:13:36.799Um, I think that's one of the most significant changes is what the community expects from their policing efforts, whether you're city, county, state, or federal.
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00:13:40.080Uh I'm gonna ask you two questions.
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00:13:47.440The the one question I've never had the courage to ask a um a police officer, so you get, and it's an easy one.
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00:13:52.559Um, and then the second, uh so the first is where does the name cops come from?
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00:13:57.279And then the second question then is explain the broken window uh philosophy.
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00:14:06.399I've heard that in relation to New York and uh NYPD, but I didn't uh I didn't think it was uh a uh well, explain what it means.
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00:14:19.200Yeah, uh well, cops actually comes from a uh historical um policing where it really goes back to the days of of coppers uh in the UK.
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00:14:22.159Uh their badges were made out of copper.
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00:14:27.279And so that moniker has really stayed uh with law enforcement.
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00:14:28.480Uh oh my gosh.
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00:14:44.720Yeah, we're police officers, but you know, the name cop has stood, you know, in whether it's in uh entertainment, TVs, movies, books, um, but it really goes back to the early days of policing, um, both in the uh UK, but also at the early days here.
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00:14:52.720If you picture, you know, the uh a lot of the cops in New York back in the day in the 1800s, they were coppers.
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00:14:58.480Um and it really started with uh the material that was used in their badge.
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00:15:02.960Um by the way, Ed, I knew you'd I knew you'd have that answer.
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00:15:07.440I didn't, I by the way, for the folks that listen to this, I I didn't uh tell Ed I was gonna ask this.
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00:15:11.360I just but he was the one guy I felt comfortable enough that I could ask that question.
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00:15:12.480I've always wanted to know.
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00:15:13.279So thank you.
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00:15:18.720And honestly, you know, it's been my experience that police officers don't mind being called the cop.
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00:15:21.039And some people want to be more respectful.
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00:15:30.559Um, and I and we appreciate that, but for the most part, that's uh certainly not uh uh uh a way of calling us that that we find to be disrespectful.
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00:15:37.120So that's also good to know because I I've talked to my children about, you know, you know, hey, I want to go talk to that cop.
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00:15:42.879I'm like, you can go talk to that police officer, not that um but that's it's it's it is that true as well?
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00:15:49.279So if I said, uh let me, you know, how do you like being a cop to a normal police officer, they wouldn't take it offensively.
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00:15:50.399Uh no.
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00:15:51.840That's good to know.
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00:15:54.639Okay, now it's back to the broken windows discussion.
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00:16:01.519Yeah, so really there was a book uh that was written, and I don't have the author, I should uh remember this.
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00:16:14.559Um and Bill Bratton, who was the commissioner of the NYP, really espoused this theory um in the in the 80s and 90s to really help deal with a lot of the just the crime that was happening in communities.
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00:16:30.879And in a nutshell, is if you ignore quality of life crimes and just let them to grow and rampant, then that's going to lead to more serious crimes, whether it's property crimes, violent crimes, and of course the most heinous, uh obviously murders uh of the like.
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00:16:35.440And so there was a focus on if you see criminal damage, i.e.
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00:16:40.240a broken window, um, some cities back then were just ignoring it.
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00:16:57.840And uh, and where did we see that predominantly was in uh really impoverished uh economic, economically impoverished uh parts of the community, and there was a lack of police presence, uh which then led to what we believe is a serious uh uptick in violent crime.
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00:17:12.400And so one of the methods of dealing with that is going in and really starting to deal with even the low-level petty crimes that otherwise were just ignored in hopes of impacting the most serious crimes uh on the back end.
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00:17:21.599Um, and that was really the foundational component of community policing for several decades in many areas from across the country.
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00:17:29.680It really started right there in the Northeast area that came across the entire country, uh, and we were a part of that uh phenomenon as well.
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00:17:33.759And so what would you do if you saw a broken window?
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00:17:39.599I do did you give the owner a citation for not fixing it, or what what how do you address it?
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00:17:49.680No, I mean, obviously it's not the owner who is the victim, it's really enforcing, you know, whether it's uh, you know, vice crimes, prostitution.
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00:18:01.119So it's not just uh, you know, that it's all those low-level uh crimes, uh they just termed it the broken windows theory, um, that you would enforce that some people would say, hey, they're very minor.
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00:18:03.119Why are we investing so much time?
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00:18:11.519Well, we do believe that by reducing or enforcing those crimes that you're going to impact um, you know, violent crime throughout that community.
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00:18:14.960Maybe it's your presence and maybe it's your developing relationships.
00:18:14.960 -->
00:18:21.279And then we started to include in that theory is let's start solving some of these long-term community problems.
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00:18:30.559If there's blight in a neighborhood, how do we connect services from within the city to pick up the trash, to change the lighting so that there's well-lit streets?
00:18:30.559 -->
00:18:36.079It's all that that goes into that broken windows theory of addressing issues.
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00:18:40.079Um, and uh, you know, so you have some long-term resolution.
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00:18:42.960So sometimes it's not even based on a crime.
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00:18:46.079Well, it doesn't sound like a bad thing.
00:18:46.079 -->
00:18:50.720So why why has it fallen out of favor or has it fallen out of favor?
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00:18:55.839No, I I do believe that there's still a comp, you know, there's remnants of that.
00:18:55.839 -->
00:18:57.839We don't really call it that anymore.
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00:19:13.200Um, and certainly um if you look in history, there's probably some uh areas that turned a zero tolerance uh uh policy in a lot of these lower uh level crimes that sometimes the community did not appreciate.
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00:19:21.359What I think is different today is that we try to work with the community and bring the community together to be part of the solution.
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00:19:32.799And certainly there's still going to be enforcement of crimes, but not only are we working better with the city that you work for, and you know, because the police department doesn't have all the tools to solve that.
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00:19:42.880We we're we're not transportation, we can't fix potholes, uh, we can't fix street lights, we can't bring out dumpsters to help communities, you know, repair those issues.
00:19:42.880 -->
00:19:49.839Um and by bringing the community together, then you start to bring them uh into the fold as there are eyes and ears.
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00:19:55.200We can never be successful truly in a community unless they're willing to call and report crimes.
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00:20:02.559And then when an officer gets there, they have to be willing to speak to them, to be a good witness, uh, you know, if they're a witness of a crime.
00:20:02.559 -->
00:20:10.720And that's really, I think, where we do a much better job today is it's not just focused on those crimes, it's focused on the whole community.
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00:20:16.240Uh, and that's really where community policing, I think, has has really evolved over the past 20 years.
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00:20:17.440Oh, that makes sense.
00:20:17.440 -->
00:20:23.920So you you still focus um on getting out ahead, you know, give them an inch, give them a mile context.
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00:20:39.039So let's keep, you know, focus even on the small crimes, but do it in conjunction with and with cooperation from and support from the local community by spending more time in upfront education and ongoing outreach.
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00:20:40.079That's correct.
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00:20:48.559And I'll give you a quick example of, you know, you know, obviously, the homeless crisis has been on everybody's mind for the past five or six years.
00:20:48.559 -->
00:20:51.920And so you can't really arrest your way out of the problem.
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00:21:02.480And so what we've done here uh in Mesa, but and also in other cities, is you work within the court system to have some uh different type of uh court process.
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00:21:22.000Um, and we have these community courts that specifically deal with people that are uh uh experiencing homelessness, and they give them options outside the criminal justice system to resolve their issue and give them access to resources and services needed to hopefully not be in that uh uh situation in the future.
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00:21:24.160You wouldn't have heard of that 20 years ago.
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00:21:31.119It would have just been a citation for trespassing or whatever the case is, and then we moved on to the next uh uh individual.
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00:21:42.000Now that brings up another area that must have changed over the last 30 years, and that is the nature of the types of incidents that police respond to.
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00:22:01.279At least what I've heard is the um the amount of what you would call um societal issues, not not crimes by their their definition, um, but things that impact the public order have risen dramatically over the Last 30 years.
00:22:01.279 -->
00:22:04.079Is that a a fair statement or a overstatement?
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00:22:19.039Yeah, I I think where I've seen the change, uh, and the one that I think most impacts um police officers and troopers is dealing with people with mental illness that are in some type of serious uh mental crisis.
00:22:19.039 -->
00:22:29.359Um we certainly had issues, you know, 30, 20 years ago, um, but uh I I don't recall it being as prevalent uh then as it is today.
00:22:29.359 -->
00:22:41.920And and I think the community expectations uh sometimes are unfair for these young officers that are trying to work through these uh issues with dealing with people in crisis.
00:22:41.920 -->
00:22:54.160Um and uh unfortunately it ends up falling on your first responders, police and fire, to deal with uh those at a much greater uh level than you know back even when I started.
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00:23:11.039And you know, it just seems like when the states started to push people out of uh, you know, state services, um, they just pushed them out into the communities, and then you add in drug components and addictive uh behavior with mental illness.
00:23:11.039 -->
00:23:20.079Um it's the least favorite call for most officers to deal with today because now everything's also captured on body one camera video.
00:23:20.079 -->
00:23:30.319And you know, the last thing you know any officer wants to do is to have to use any level of force on someone who truly is in a mental crisis.
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00:23:37.039It's very challenging uh for these young officers today, much more so than when I uh uh began my career.
00:23:37.839 -->
00:23:43.039Well, and I think that I was in uh Washington County right outside of St.
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00:23:54.480Paul, and the sheriff there uh indicated he thought that the majority of call outs now were either mental uh crisis, mental illness, or drug or alcohol addiction.
00:23:54.480 -->
00:24:05.839Um and to hit and to your point, you know, that you know, when he joined, he he kind of joined to keep the the public safe, to go chase bad guys, right, to get criminals off the street.
00:24:05.839 -->
00:24:17.519Um, not you know, and not that he, you know, and not that he's not sympathetic, but he, you know, he didn't, he he and his you know in his age didn't join to deal with these, didn't expect to deal with these kinds of issues.
00:24:18.079 -->
00:24:21.119Yeah, and I certainly I don't know what their experience is.
00:24:21.119 -->
00:24:25.200And I can say for us here, it's not the majority of the calls that we go on.
00:24:25.200 -->
00:24:35.759There's always uh particularly violent crime, could be a component of drugs um and you know, gang activity, but uh it's not the majority of what our folks are doing.
00:24:35.759 -->
00:24:41.680Um, but it certainly has uh seriously upticked uh over the past 10, 12, 15 years.
00:24:42.799 -->
00:24:50.480Speaking of uh two more topics, uh the first is um uh this next generation of police officers.
00:24:50.480 -->
00:25:09.200Uh if you think about who you were and why you joined, uh and the and the kind of the satisfaction or the things that you appreciated about the job 30 years ago, uh how does that compare to why someone would join today, what they would expect and what they would experience?
00:25:09.519 -->
00:25:18.160Yeah, you know, I had the uh the pleasure the last three, three and a half years to be over our hiring, recruiting, and training efforts.
00:25:18.160 -->
00:25:31.599So I got an opportunity to really get to know some of these young people that are signing up for this job uh uh today, which if you just watch social media, you'll ask, you know, a young person, why would you do this?
00:25:31.599 -->
00:25:47.440Um, you know, and and you know, post-George Floyd murder, we really had challenges across the country in recruiting uh individuals into this uh this organization or the uh uh the field of law enforcement in general.
00:25:47.440 -->
00:25:55.279And to be honest with you, when you really talk to the people that show up, they want to do the same thing that we did.
00:25:55.279 -->
00:25:58.160And we ask them to tell us why are you here?
00:25:58.160 -->
00:25:59.119Like why?
00:25:59.119 -->
00:26:02.480And they all say the same thing that we said 30 years ago.
00:26:02.480 -->
00:26:08.559I want to serve my community, I want to do or be part of an honorable profession that serves others.
00:26:08.559 -->
00:26:14.240And they had some of them have very personal stories about why they want to be in law enforcement.
00:26:14.240 -->
00:26:20.960I want to catch bad guys because somebody was victimizing my family and I was negatively impacted by that.
00:26:20.960 -->
00:26:24.960Or I had such a positive experience with law enforcement.
00:26:24.960 -->
00:26:35.599We have had several people that come in and come from very poor, you know, just difficult backgrounds, and they had a positive influence or positive contact, and they knew that's what they wanted to do.
00:26:35.599 -->
00:26:39.839Um, and so I think the initial reason is the same.
00:26:39.839 -->
00:26:48.000Um, I will say, you know, that our young people today are smarter and more agile uh than we were 30 years ago.
00:26:48.000 -->
00:26:57.680Um and uh, you know, I I think the challenge is gonna be as you know, we look at this landscape of finances with pensions, that's changed.
00:26:57.680 -->
00:27:06.799Where it's uh it's not as, what shall I say, uh as beneficial um to get into a pension system as a law enforcement officer.
00:27:06.799 -->
00:27:12.799And, you know, now it's not even in some cases 20 years here in Arizona, it's 25 years.
00:27:12.799 -->
00:27:20.319Um, and then there's limits on when you can draw, and that's I think gonna be a challenge for law enforcement moving into the future.
00:27:20.319 -->
00:27:32.720Um, but what they do differently, and and again, I remember when I was a young cop, the old timers saying, these young cops, they don't understand and fill in the blanks, whatever we're talking about.
00:27:32.720 -->
00:27:34.319Well, we're doing that now.
00:27:34.319 -->
00:27:43.920The difference is I think where we just blindly follow the rules and we worked hard and we didn't take time off because we didn't earn it yet.
00:27:43.920 -->
00:27:45.920We had to earn fear respect.
00:27:45.920 -->
00:28:04.319Young people today, they really want a better work-life balance and they are more open to wellness and taking care of themselves for the long term and taking care of their families, where I think 30 years ago, a lot of young officers came in and they made the job their priority.
00:28:04.319 -->
00:28:12.319Um, and I have seen a switch in the last five to seven years with uh this newer generation uh of police officers.
00:28:12.640 -->
00:28:13.599Well, that's good to hear.
00:28:13.599 -->
00:28:15.759I mean, and that's that's a that's that's healthy.
00:28:15.759 -->
00:28:24.000I mean, I mean, I but I think that's probably if you look back, um, you know, when I and you and I both started our careers, you know, that's what your parents told you.
00:28:24.000 -->
00:28:30.880You said, you know, you make the job the priority, and you know, you were you were you're you were making a living for your family, and that came first.
00:28:30.880 -->
00:29:00.799I think though, with policing, you know, the amount of emotional um distress and the amount of emotional shock that uh officers go through, it is it it must be much, you know, it must be a good thing that they are focused on their wellness and and they're open to the uh to uh proactively dealing with the psychological impact of what a police officer has to deal with.
00:29:01.359 -->
00:29:07.839I think a big difference, Bob, is when I started, the only thing I knew about policing is what I saw on TV and the movies.
00:29:07.839 -->
00:29:15.359Um now they're inundated with videos and social media uh uh all the time.
00:29:15.359 -->
00:29:21.759And so they really have already been uh inundated with what people are actually doing in the job.
00:29:21.759 -->
00:29:29.039And so hopefully, organizations like ours uh here in Arizona are focusing on wellness from day one.
00:29:29.039 -->
00:29:31.759Um and it's okay not to be okay.
00:29:31.759 -->
00:29:50.240And we are going to provide services or resources, um, practices to help you be healthy, physical, spiritual, um, emotional, so that you can have a successful and safe career, not only on the job, but also when you're not uh uh on the job anymore.
00:29:50.240 -->
00:29:55.200I mean, and if if agencies are not making that a focus, they're making a mistake.
00:29:55.599 -->
00:30:06.079Well, and and the people I talk to on this podcast, and then I talk to in my work at Pepperball, uh, I I don't think I've ever run into a chief or sheriff that hasn't made that a priority.
00:30:06.079 -->
00:30:32.240To your point, that's um you know, the that time, you know, the time to uh to the not the time, but the uh thematically, I feel like policing in the United States has wholeheartedly embraced mental uh wellness and the impacts of the traumas that police officers uh deal with you know daily, if not uh uh and the cumulative effects.
00:30:32.240 -->
00:30:35.279And so I think that's actually one of the most positives.
00:30:35.279 -->
00:30:37.920I think another positive is the quality of training.
00:30:37.920 -->
00:30:48.720I would imagine that um and the and to your point, um the technology that officers have now so that they can make much smarter decisions and and do their jobs better.
00:30:48.720 -->
00:30:50.240I mean, maybe speak to that.
00:30:50.240 -->
00:30:52.480What it I assume that's changed as well.
00:30:52.799 -->
00:30:53.920Oh, significantly.
00:30:53.920 -->
00:31:03.359Like uh you would laugh if you saw we used to have this machine called a Milo Fats machine, and it's where it was basically a video.
00:31:03.359 -->
00:31:10.400And you know, this video is of guys and gals from the 80s, and you know, you're you're shooting at the screen.
00:31:10.400 -->
00:31:17.279Uh it was so corny, and you know, but it met a standard that you had to add to have a decision suit.
00:31:17.279 -->
00:31:33.440Well, today we have like a 280-degree fully immersive um simulator with audio and video where we can craft real scenarios and even implement some of our own scenarios, the tools that officers are actually using.
00:31:33.440 -->
00:31:51.119You can put in, you know, whether it's rifles, shotguns, and less lethal, non-lethal tools into the scenarios, and then it captures video, and then you know, you're debriefing after each one of these and and and getting them to think about maybe we should consider this in the future.
00:31:51.119 -->
00:32:06.960It's about you know reassessing what's not working instead of just getting stuck in that what we used to call the OODA loop where you just do the same thing over and over again, is to you know use time, distance, and cover um and use the tools uh that that you have.
00:32:06.960 -->
00:32:17.359You know, I can tell you training 20 years ago, there was always, I should say always, but a lot of time there was almost some what of a punitive or negative connotation to being sent to training.
00:32:17.359 -->
00:32:21.599So we wanted to change that to make it a positive experience.
00:32:21.599 -->
00:32:35.200And what we're starting to see is with that change, is you have officers in the field that have their body worn camera, and if they trust their trainers, they're reaching out to them saying, Hey, officer, can you take a look at this?
00:32:35.200 -->
00:32:37.440Tell me how I could have done better.
00:32:37.440 -->
00:32:41.599Wow, I mean, that's a drastic difference.
00:32:41.599 -->
00:32:51.759Um, and I and I think from a culture per cultural perspective, uh, it's extremely important that even your frontline officers are looking at ways to be better.
00:32:51.759 -->
00:32:53.759Um, how can we improve?
00:32:53.759 -->
00:33:03.359And it's okay to not be perfect because perfection is is rare that you're ever gonna get there, but you should always be striving to be as as effective as you can be.
00:33:03.359 -->
00:33:05.920And and that's been a big change in training.
00:33:06.400 -->
00:33:20.240I, by the way, um, as as you know, Ed, I you you guys were kind enough to to um invite me into your training center, and I participated in that 270-degree experience, and uh it was phenomenal.
00:33:20.240 -->
00:33:22.240Um, I didn't do very well.
00:33:22.240 -->
00:33:31.519I think they were, I think I got a failing grade, but um the uh to your point, it was it was absolutely real life, uh, or as real life as you could make it.
00:33:31.519 -->
00:33:45.599And you and that kind of technology, I mean, you talk about virtual reality, that's you know, that's a really good example of the taxpayers' money going to uh have uh young officers ready for what they might face out in the street.
00:33:45.920 -->
00:33:53.359Yeah, and you're starting to see more virtual reality headsets coming into training, and so there's a lot of companies working on perfecting that.
00:33:53.359 -->
00:34:13.280Um, and to your point, when we host our citizen, you know, police academies and our you know citizen events, we include that as a portion of their training, and they always come back with just a better perspective of how difficult it is for our officers to deal with a rapidly evolving, dangerous situation.
00:34:13.280 -->
00:34:23.519Um, and they're shooting people that they shouldn't be, and it helps them appreciate you know the amazing work that our uh officers do every day.
00:34:25.840 -->
00:34:37.760You know, you as in your um in your uh public information officer role, you've dealt with the public um for many years, and you were on the front line trying to explain what happened and and why.
00:34:37.760 -->
00:34:47.039What would you say are the three biggest misconceptions that you know a layman or a civilian like myself would have about policing?
00:34:48.719 -->
00:34:50.719Oh, well that's a good one.
00:34:50.719 -->
00:35:07.840Um you know, I think uh, you know, you know, when you see these really difficult, you know, incidents where force is being used, that you know, sometimes cops are portrayed as you know that they're looking for that type of uh incident to happen.
00:35:07.840 -->
00:35:16.880And I can tell you from both personal experience as an officer throughout my career, we don't want to get involved in those situations.
00:35:16.880 -->
00:35:20.000We do want people to comply with lawful orders.
00:35:20.000 -->
00:35:31.679Um and so sometimes it's you're unfairly characterized, um, and we've heard the rhetoric, and you know, you just have to let it shake off and roll off your back.
00:35:31.679 -->
00:35:36.639Um, particularly um, you know, with those dealing with mental illness.
00:35:36.639 -->
00:35:42.400Um, you know, we've lost a lot of officers, you know, to stress-related injuries.
00:35:42.400 -->
00:35:47.679Um, you know, because when we deal with people, it's always on the worst moment of their life.
00:35:47.679 -->
00:35:48.239Yep.
00:35:48.239 -->
00:35:54.960Um, and so these men and women are husbands and wives, they're kids, and their kids are in school.
00:35:54.960 -->
00:35:58.320They're just like you and and every one of us in the community.
00:35:58.320 -->
00:36:03.039And they want to go home at night and they want the same things for the family as you do.
00:36:03.039 -->
00:36:06.880And I think that's a misconception is that it's an us against them.
00:36:06.880 -->
00:36:09.920No, we are you, we are part of the community.
00:36:09.920 -->
00:36:24.239Uh, and I can tell you um, from seeing too many innocent children deaths, whether by drowning or abuse, um, you see the impact on mothers and fathers who have kids.
00:36:24.239 -->
00:36:31.360Uh, my own experience, you know, I can remember, you know, doing CPR and a two-month-old baby, and it was the same age as my daughter.
00:36:31.360 -->
00:36:47.199Um, that that call stuck with me, the smell uh of the child um for 20 years um and the impact that that has uh because we're human beings and we hurt uh just like everybody else does, but we have a job to do.
00:36:47.199 -->
00:37:00.800Um, and hopefully we're able to rise above that and and like I mentioned early on, it is complete the objective or solve the problem or make things safe or bring justice to a victim, you know, whatever that incident was.
00:37:00.800 -->
00:37:06.639But I think that's a big misnomer that these are just heartless, calloused individuals.
00:37:06.639 -->
00:37:07.679They really are not.
00:37:07.679 -->
00:37:17.199They're good human beings in a noble profession that uh really aren't thanked enough uh for what they do on a day-to-day basis.
00:37:18.239 -->
00:37:19.599Amen to that, brother.
00:37:19.599 -->
00:37:27.440Um, you know, you talk about um the and you and I hadn't you had never shared this um uh CPR issue with the two-month-year-old.
00:37:27.440 -->
00:37:38.239Um this yeah, I think the statistics say that police officers will have somewhere in the 20 to 30 year career, 50 to 60 to 70 of those experiences.
00:37:38.239 -->
00:37:46.000When any of us as a civilian, you know, um in a in a worst case might have four or five of those experiences.
00:37:46.000 -->
00:37:52.480It's uh the culnative impact is I think um just uh enormous.
00:37:52.480 -->
00:38:02.079And to your point, I think that's lost because the the the public only sees um sees I think they see officers in their worst day, right?
00:38:02.079 -->
00:38:03.360When they see them on film.
00:38:03.360 -->
00:38:21.440And they don't see um the thousands and thousands of of times when they are helping somebody else in their worst day um and doing doing the the to your point that honorable thing, of which I completely agree is um you know simply deserves a thank you.
00:38:21.440 -->
00:38:25.519On that note, by the way, this is uh in the in the context of thank you.
00:38:25.519 -->
00:38:42.320I have one last question for you, and that is to say thank you for joining uh the frontline, the uh and the first response podcast, um, to make a donation in your name and a charity of your choice.
00:38:42.320 -->
00:38:43.760And what would that be?
00:38:44.079 -->
00:38:55.840Uh that would be the Arizona Disabled Sports Group uh in Mesa, Arizona, that provides sporting and adaptive opportunities for people of all different types of abilities, veterans.
00:38:55.840 -->
00:39:07.039Um, you know, it's our motto is let no one sit on the sidelines, and it really does an amazing work uh for people who would otherwise not be able to participate in in sporting opportunities.
00:39:07.440 -->
00:39:08.320Well, fantastic.
00:39:08.320 -->
00:39:13.280Well, Ed, and I'll say Chief Wessing, um, thank you so much.
00:39:13.280 -->
00:39:27.679Uh as I and for taking the time to be with us as I um leave the chief and finish up the podcast, you know, uh I reflect on this conversation.
00:39:27.679 -->
00:39:30.480It it uh it it came at a good time.
00:39:30.480 -->
00:39:45.440I had a tough day today at work and um a little bit um needed a pick-me-up and uh Chief Wessing's description of how policing is I think evolving for the the in a in a positive way.
00:39:45.440 -->
00:40:14.719You know, he talked about um you know the next generation um who is better uh equipped to handle uh their mental wellness, who is more open to taking feedback, um who expects and wants to leverage technology, um, and uh you know they're still coming in for all the right reasons, and that is to serve the public, to um uh to be a service to their uh their community.
00:40:14.719 -->
00:40:23.519Uh so I walk away today feeling um uh a bit more positive about the future um than I did walking in.
00:40:23.519 -->
00:40:27.679So again, folks, thanks for taking the time to listen.
00:40:27.679 -->
00:40:30.880And you have been listening to uh First Response.
00:40:30.880 -->
00:40:43.039This is the number one, I hope, podcast that takes you behind the badge of the everyday police officer, in this case police chief, and you know, to hear their real life stories and experiences.
00:40:43.039 -->
00:40:50.159Uh just um impressive, um humbling, and um uh fascinating.
00:40:50.159 -->
00:40:57.360So um wrapping up, um again, you've been listening um and hopefully enjoyed listening to me.
00:40:57.360 -->
00:41:03.519Um uh my name is Bob Plaschke, um, and this is uh first response.
00:41:03.519 -->
00:41:14.719It is a um a podcast dedicated to understanding the stories behind the people that wear a badge who um the very brave first responders, more than a million out there in the United States.
00:41:14.719 -->
00:41:23.760Um and um I am very um privileged um that this is sponsored by PepperBall, um, the company that I have the honor to be the CEO of.
00:41:23.760 -->
00:41:41.360And again, PepperBall, you we deploy non-lethal tools that allow police officers to um uh do their jobs um but not have to use their guns and um and and not have to suffer uh and keep themselves and uh and the and the public that they serve safe.
00:41:41.360 -->
00:41:45.440Uh until next time, appreciate it and uh and be safe out there.
