Episode 003 - Media Coverage of Self-Supported Ultra-Distance Events with Meaghan Hackinen, Rob Gardiner & James Robertson.

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If you ever want to follow me into a bathroom, James,
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just let me know. I feel like we're going to
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there now I'll say yes.
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Hello and welcome to dot com, the audio home of
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ultradistant cycling coverage, brought to you by dot Watcher and
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presented by Leandres of Peak Bike Fitting and Samuel Thompson
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of Assia Coaching and Consulting. Now each month we're going
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to bring you all the latest racing news and goings
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on from the ultradisance world. And today we have a
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roundtable discussion on media coverage of self supported ultradistance events
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with guests James Robertson, Meghan Hackenan and Rob Gardner.
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On the menu. Today, we'll be recapping all the action
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the Edit Retrail Invitational, the Tour out Rower and the
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Solstice Series, equinox ome You Loop plus will be previewing
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all the big events that you can follow in the
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next month on the dot Watch your website and some
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digestible piece of news, plus as always, a missapp, the
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Chapel of the Month and our best off bikes Off.
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As always, we're here to bring you what you want
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to hear, so if you want to get in touch
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You can do so via Instagram, page at dot COM's
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pod or email ups at dot COM's pod at gmail
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dot com.
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So, Sam, I hear you've been overtaken whilst out riding again.
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Yes, I know, it doesn't I mentioned the other month
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that occasionally does happen, not very often, but this time
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last week, I just happened to be down on the
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Ligurian Riviera and someone had the temerity to overtake me
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while drafting a scooter. I'n noticed to be flashed by
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some guy wearing a Team u AE jersey with some
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rainbow rainbow patterns on. I don't know who he was,
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but a bit rude, bit rude not saying hello, and
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I thought I thought I'd try and keep up with him,
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but I had all my luggage with me, as I thought,
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I'll let this one go.
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That was definitely the reason, though, wasn't it, Because obviously
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weight is everything. It's not to do with the you know,
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it's a drafting off the scooter. I think it's it's
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as we know, drafting, drafting and events. It is cheating,
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isn't it. So I'm also considering maybe you're going slower
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because you've had a bike fit from somebody else.
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I'm not sure that's that's the confession's corner actually going
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to going to come to us been I've been cheating
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on newly have been seeing another bike fitter.
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It's natural.
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Unfortunately I had I had the option either even coming
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to Sheffield bike Fit or going to Antigue for a
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bike fits, so I easier for you. I chose a letter.
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Both both geographical location and the destination itself was played
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the factor there.
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But so how how was the bike fit?
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How did you find it really really productive? It's one
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of the things which people I work with I recommend
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is that comfort and performance that you just can't disassociate
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that if you're not comfortable sign singing on a bike
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after after new more numerous days, then you're not going
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to be performing. And it's something I've personally maybe neglected
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for a little while that you can get away with
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one day rides feel fine if your position isn't isn't
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totally perfect, But then when you come to do multiple
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day rides, I find that's when that's when it can
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really start to sting.
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So yeah, so what were the what were the main
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changes that he made?
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She made some some changes to my cleep position slightly
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further back lateral movement interestingly. Okay, so yeah, you may
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you may pick me up on some of the technical
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details here. Also, yeah, moving the saddle down slightly, and
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some interest in changing my aerobars as well, lifting them
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up quite a bit. Also moving my head, moving my
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hoods inwards, which I quite like that position that you
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see it quite a lot of and I don't you
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see a lot of people doing it for arrow gains
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to really it's very fashionable. Yeah, but I did. I
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do like that. It feels more natural old in that position,
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So I think, yeah, it's that real focus for when
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we're looking at ultra distance to being comfortable in multiple positions,
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which yeah, I think, but it all sounds familiar to you.
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Of the considerations that you might have working with people
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for these events.
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Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think the interview process is
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one of the most important, and that's why I do
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specific ultra distance bike fitting, because you know, you can
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have like a triathlon type fit which arguably lasts a
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tenth of the time as an ultra and it seems
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odd that there's not a specific thing for ortra distance.
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So the interview process that I do is actually specific
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and it's actually different to a general bike fit, and
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it really is investigative and kind of goes into what
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the event is, the type of terrain, the type of bike,
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tire choice, all of that stuff. It's not really it's
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quite mortifacted.
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That really shows that the specificity in all these elements
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for preparing for events is so important.
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Yeah, it's definitely more important than what Baggie choose to
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bring with you.
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But there we go. Well, well, talking about talking about events,
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I hear that you've got an event on the horizon.
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They yep, we will bring it up in a bit.
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But the Dales Divide. I'm very excited about it. I
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am slightly less fit and slightly less strong than last year,
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but I do know the course now because I did
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it last year and it was terrible conditions. So if
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it's nice conditions and I'm slightly less fit, maybe I'll
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do slightly better.
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We'll see, I'll see. Well, maybe maybe get onto that.
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Maybe maybe it would be the one one of the
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ones that we're going to pick out in the preview.
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I very much doubt it. So should we actually catch
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up on some of the recent race action.
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Yeah, let's Uh, let's find out what's what's been going on.
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Race recap.
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So you may wonder why I just played the theme
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tune from Magnificent Seven. Well that's what the media tag
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this year's winners of the Iditarod Trail Invitational. This year,
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the riders faced really challenging conditions, including harsh conditions on
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the coast areas with no snow and horrific ice crossings
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over the sea. The sun was also shining in the afternoons,
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which tended to slow the riders down as the route
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warmed up as well. So this is a two distance
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event where you can choose between either three hundred and
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fifty mile or one thousand miles. So moving on to
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the one thousand mile event, the winning bunch the Magnificent Seven,
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named Tiziano Mulonia, Willie Mulonia, Roberto Gazzoli, Casey Fagoquist, Mike Bergen, Grolschlin,
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and Peter Delaware all finished in a time of seventeen days,
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three hours and thirty eight minutes. A special mention to
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Josh Brown, who also made history as the first ever
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ICI a thousand finisher, completing the race in all three
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disciplines bike, foot and ski. The first woman to finish
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was Julia Perilla Garcia in a time of twenty days,
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two hours and five minutes. It was very close between
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her and Janie Tower, but Julie managed to break free
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towards the end. She turned forty nine during the event
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and also gave us an inspirational quote upon finishing. If
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you're not fast, you must keep peddling until no one
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is around.
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What do you make of seven people sharing the victory.
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It's a hard one because I would never do an
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event like this. I don't think I'm strong mentally enough.
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It's hard because it makes it almost seems like it
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devalues it because obviously it's seven people essentially riding together,
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all kind of egging each other on, which makes.
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It arguably easier.
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So the people that were in the front of the
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race almost had a kind of slight advantage of people
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in the midpack that we're kind of racing and trying
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to get forwards.
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Something you do see obviously last year we had dual
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winners of Tyson Blaherty and Mirron Golfman friends in the podcast,
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and yes, something we do commonly see in these winter
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events where there is for safety reasons that some people
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bunch up. But I've been really interesting to hear from
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listeners of what you make of this, whether whether there
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is a reason for that through the conditions, how acceptable
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it is in winter racing, because it's something which in
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other events we could well see the first seven people
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being disqualified for riding together for that period of time.
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So it's a difficult one to comment on without having
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personally participate in the events, but yeah, interesting discussion point.
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I could imagine in those conditions, sam like being on
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your own seeing a group of people for quite a while,
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moving very slowly. It kind of feels almost daft to
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slowly pull away and have to put that extra bit
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in because I guess some people probably did want to
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pull away, but it's so slow and you're all kind
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of in it together, where I guess it would feel
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a bit odd. And also you kind of do want
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to stick with people because the conditions are quite severe.
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As it's also in the individual events, and I think
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entering on these events you should be your whole idea
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is to be self supported and not to have to
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rely on others. So yeah, it's a difficult one not
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to not to try and put any judgment on it,
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but I can see arguments of both sides absolutely.
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So moving on to the three to fifty event, things
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were very tight from the get go, with Tyson, Flatty,
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Tim Bernstone and John Lackey all pushing each other at
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the front. Around the one hundred and ninety mile mark,
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Tyson managed to pull away from his competitors, riding a
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few miles ahead in front of Clinton. He ended up
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finishing first with a time of one day, twenty hours
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and fifty three minutes, just two hours behind John Lackey's
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twenty fifteen record. Leo Willcox was the first woman and
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fifth overall rider to finish the three hundred and fifty route,
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also in a time of two days, eleven hours and
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nineteen minutes.
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I also want to give a shout out to the
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second second female finisher, Kate Coward, who put up a
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brave fight and really showed that nominative determinism doesn't always
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apply to everyone.
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Resist yourself, Ken you seriously?
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Yeah, it's it's snow joke.
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The conditions, Oh dear me come. I move on with
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the next event.
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In slightly warmer climates, we had the Tour r Tier
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Rower down in New Zealand. Where there was one hundred
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and ninety three people registered for for what. It's not
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a race, it's a it's a brevet three thousand kilometers
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from north to south of New Zealand. And we mentioned
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mentioned last time the preview that it's it's so much
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not a race that riders must not finish in less
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than ten days. So you've got to take at least
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at least six days off six six days or six
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hours off per per twenty four hour ride periods when
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riders riders can't be moving. So I was sort of
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a bit too influent weather to whether to mention who
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the fastest person was with this, with this not being
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not being a rac but we can finish, we can
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hear from one of the first one of the first
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finishers put in a great performance regardless of whether it
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was a race or not. So Kirsten Kurston clearly has
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sent in this audio kid Ust to play.
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Chili and Samuel dot COM's podcast to you.
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And this is Kristen clearly just.
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Checking tell you a bit about.
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My experience of the tour. I feel a boat backing
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event in New Zealand which I've just recently finished. This
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is a three thousand kilometer fixed routs. Event was approximately
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thirty thousand meters of elevation and it takes in.
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Everything road, cycle path, trail track, single track, gravel, mountain biking,
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cycling on the beach, ever.
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You can think of. It's in there.
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A day that really stands out with weird juxtaposition recycling
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from the Ragan National Park.
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After waking up on the side of a trail and
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getting down to an.
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Extraction point where you were picked up by a jet
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boat and taking about thirty kometers down the Wagono River
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to the nearest settlement and from there you cycle on
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and end up in a Victorian esk you said, town
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on the west coast where you take a doctor Who
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style public elevator of about twenty stories.
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To the top of the time.
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Before you continue a journey. Amazing scenery, really interesting places
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and met a great bunch of bike packers and people
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along the way.
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Thanks very much, Kirsten. That's a great, great illustration of
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all the different services or different challenges that you had
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to put up with there. So yeah, it sounds like
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it sounds like a great event. An event, not a race,
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states The final event which we've got to recap was
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the source of theories Equinox Omnio Loop which is the
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first edition that this race. This race has been run.
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We have also this rekep from Nile Copeland who was
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part of the media team for the organizers. So turns
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about the race Marl.
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On Saturday, the twenty second of March, the inaugural Equinox
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Omnio Loops Race took place in the Cotswolds, England, forming
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part of the Solstice series of races. It was described
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by race organizer Liam O'Keeffe as a points based twenty
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four hour test. The course consisted of three loops, each
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worth a number of points. The objective was to accumulate
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as many points as possible by completing laps. Lap one
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was the short lap, flat, with a distance of eighteen
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kilometers worth one point. Lap two was the medium lap
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a bit more rolling, with a distance of fifty five
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kilometers and worth three points. Lap three was the long
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lap rolling terrain, but also including the horrific climb of
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Winchmore Hill. This was one hundred and fifteen kilometers and
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worth ten points. The design of the loops gave a
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unique strategic element to the race. Howard Riders planned to
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accumulate the most points through the twenty four hours, especially
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through the middle of the night. On paper, the longer
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course gave an advantage in terms of points per kilometer
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ridden and elevation gain, but the steep climb and the
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weather meant many changed strategies throughout the race. As the
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race started at ten am, it was clear that most
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riders had opted to get long laps done during the
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initial daylight, and it wasn't until night began to fall
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that we saw a split between those continuing to take
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on the long lap versus those who switched to the
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flatter short course that also had the advantage of more frequent.
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Stops at HQ for resupply.
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Through the night. The weather also became a factor, with
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a big split between the southerly shortened medium loops and
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the more northerly long loop. Riders on the shortened medium
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loops stayed dry, whilst many riders on the long route
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reported occasional heavy rain and lightning. In the women's race,
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a tense three way back came right down to the wire.
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Esther Lloyd stuck with the long loop through the night,
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whilst Annie Dixie did endless short laps as Esther came
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back from her third long loop. She was two points
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ahead of Annie and managed to hold that lead with
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a final score of forty points, with Annie on thirty eight.
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Nicky Ray had been suffering from stomach issues but still
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managed to get three little long laps done and came
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home third with thirty seven points. In the men's race,
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it became quite clear earlier on that this was going
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to be an epic fight between Paul Wayne Wright and
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Ben James. Both managed to get four long laps done,
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but Paul had the edge and had scored two more
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short laps to than Ben to win with forty seven
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points to forty five. Tom Banks, Giema Castro, and Viktor
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Kokachev came joint third with forty points. In the pairs race,
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it was a dominant victory from Edie Harrison and Julia Colman,
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leading from start to finish. They clocked up thirty five
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points but an impressive near six hundred kilometers distance run
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second place where Alice and Andrew Campbell on twenty six
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points and a big shout out place Dan Corbold and
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Logan Mills, who swapped individual bikes for a tandem halfway through.
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All in all, this was a fantastic event. What particularly
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stood out was the camaraderie and sharing of stories at
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the finish line, all the riders finishing at the same
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time drinking cups of tea and bacon or vegan sausage
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sandwiches being rustled up by crew member Martin McShane. The
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Solstice series of races is definitely want to keep an
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eye on. Next up on the calendar for them, the
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Solstice Sprint in the end towards the end of June.
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Thanks so much for that. Now, So that wraps up
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the events which have been going on last month. So
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let's hear what's what we've got to look forward to
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the next month. God still watch.
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Each month we will be previewing the upcoming events that
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you can follow on dot watcher dot CC, where commentary
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brought to you by expert dot watcher contributors who volunteer
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their time to bring you the action as it unfils and.
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The stories behind the dots.
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We will give you the low down what the events
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entail and which dots you may want to keep an on.
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Maybe we will even straight into some occasional world speculation.
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Well it's this first one is all about speculation because well,
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we know where it's going to start, but we don't
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know much more than that in terms of the route.
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Let's say you know you're racing in it, right, Well, I.
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Don't even know that. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. Well,
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well we will see next next month. So next month
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I either have a race recap in person or or
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rival wise, we will see another Unknown Elements there. So
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it's the third This is if you haven't picked up already,
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it's the third installment of the Unknown Race, which is
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a really interesting format. So the first control point is
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only revealed an hour before the start, and then subsequent
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control points will only be revealed once you reach that
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once you reach the next one, So at CP one
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they receive the coordinates of CP two, would have to
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make up their route on the on the fly, and
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the final distance is supposed to be around one thousand kilometers.
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So the event this year is starting in Luca Earnestley
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on the seventeenth of April. The roster is looking pretty hot.
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We have last year's male and female winners, so that's
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Will Woosden and Janna Kessenheimer and both returning to try
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and defend their titles. We also also have some interesting
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names on there as well. Christoph Strasser previous two times
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wind have TCR and there Nicole van Bettenberg, she's looking
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at the cherry on top of her victory at the rates,
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Aron Rwanda, Victor bouce Gavey, who you may have heard
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his story at the trans Continental Race last year. He
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rode almost twice as far as everyone else after leaving
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his passport at the gas a gas station. So Victor,
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make sure you pass pack your passport when you when
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you're traveling this time. Don't keep it somewhere safe when
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you're when you're riding too. Because I have heard from
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the from a from a source. Well, I've got to
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keep quiet as this is the unknown race after all,
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that they may well be going to other countries apart
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from Italy on this route, and the food is something
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that people should be looking forward to. Mentioned obviously Strata
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Yankee Park or nearby, so maybe maybe that would be
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taken in there, maybe some maybe some decisions to be
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made around on and off road as well. But just
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a couple of other other names to mention. Hannah Laba Leesta,
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who is the organizer of the Transcontinental Race. You may
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be interested to see how how she gets on racing
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herself and having to make up a route as she
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goes along. I'm sure there'll be plenty of gravel park
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or on her choice of route. And we've also got
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Robert Muller there as well, who I'm sure he'll be
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sticking to the road I have to experience at the
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Transpyrenees Race. Maybe maybe he'll brings some hotel shoes, hotel there, slippers,
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and he's got any mountain passes to be to be crossing.
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Just a couple of nice things to be mentioning about
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this race that this year they've they've got thirty percent
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female ratio on the on the start line, which is
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good to see, approaching where we should be at fifty
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percent on these events. And in terms of the entry fee,
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they only charged one hundred and twenty euros to enter
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and fifty fifty of this goes into charity pot which
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both the male and female winners get to decide which
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charity this goes to. So this year, after having filled
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up the one hundred and fifty places on the day
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that it Restorations opened and they wanted to keep to
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that amount to be a reasonably small and nice atmosphere.
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They've got seven thousand fire entered euros to be donated
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in charity. So yeah, it looks like great event, some
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interesting action to follow from both the both the format
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and some of the some of the names on the
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start line. So yeah, I'm looking forward to maybe following.
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Maybe I've loo cracked myself. It sounds like a really
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nice initiative.
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Actually, Dale's Divide, which is what I'm going to talk
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about now, that is pure donation, so you basically make
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the riding maker donation and then I guess you have
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to sort your own track route.
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But it is a nice event.
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So Dale's Divide this year is looking to be another
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fully packed field. This is the start of the season
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for many ultra distance bike packers. It's always on Good Friday,
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so this year is April eighteenth. Last year was kind
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of like mid March, so obviously the conditions were worse.
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This race is six hundred kilometers with roughly nine hundred
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meters of climbing, mainly off road, goes through many different terrains.
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My favorite personal part would be the five mile bogs
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just before Northallerton. I have terrible memories of cowpoo, unrideable fields,
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sludging through muck and just trying to stop myself from screaming.
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I guess.
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Last year's conditions were some of the toughest as I
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just mentioned, so it would be nice for this year's
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to be a little later in the year, so fingers
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crossed for some better or even drier weather would be
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really nice. So the route goes all the way from
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the Arnside Pierre in Cumbria, across the country to Scarborough
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and back again through the Dales. It's an absolutely stunning
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route and I've noticed a few big names on.
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The starting list.
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I've noticed that Miron Golfman is said to be on
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the starting list, Alex Berry also who's had a top
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five position in the Highland Trail five point fifty, and
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also Cole Hops who I think just does it every
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year and he's always like at the top ten I guess,
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very strong rider and also very very nice guy. Amy Holman,
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who was the second woman to finish the Grand Grouch
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in twenty twenty three, is also on the starting line,
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and also Rachel Fox, who finished the Highland Trail last
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year in a very respectable thirty ninth position overall. I
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will also be racing. As I mentioned, to watch, I
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am excited. I'm not one to watch.
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How dare you?
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That's too much pressure? But I as I said, I
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have done it before. I'm not as fit as last year,
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but I feel like I know the course quite well.
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I know where it is awful, so I feel like
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I will just have lots of Harry Boat before the
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horrible bits and try and close my mouth and not
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get food poisoning or other battle related issues.
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When you're in the Harry Bay, he.
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Just gets everywhere.
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I've actually chosen to take a back pack with the
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water pouch in it this time because the bottles were
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00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.839
just constantly covered in pooh. It was absolutely disgusting. How
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about how about other events? Have we got anything else?
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Sam?
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Yeah, as we're starting to really get into the race season,
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there's quite a few to quite a few too that
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will be on the dot watch website to follow. Obviously
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we can't go through them all in the same detail,
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So just to mention that we've got on starting in
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the seventh of April as the classic story, which I mean,
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I like look at this on especially with being classic
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season in the professional professional pedoton that this event is
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twelve hundred kilometers, taken in pretty much all of the
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Spring classics in one hit, so that would be an
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interesting one. Follow one over in America is Doom, which
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is a very ominous, ominous title for that one, so
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it's a very I'm sure it's a jolly experience when
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you're out there in the Ozark back country. Six hundred
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eighty kilometers but fourteen thousand meters of climbing, so not
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much not much flat surface there. And then we've got
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a few of her have wely.
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Yes, We've got Lagarber Gravel which is on the twenty
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eighth of April that is in Catalonia in Spain, so
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I think you've got six distances from eighty three kilometers
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up to five hundred kilometers, and of course the Grand
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Branch which is an Auduts gravel event on the thirtie
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of April, which is in the beautiful Canary Islands that
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is eight hundred kilometers. And lastly we have the Gravel
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deff Fuego which is on the twelfth of April in Chile,
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and it's a long one. It's one thousand and fifty
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kilometers with eight eight hundred and ninety three meters.
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Just a one that you can follow all those commentary
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and watching the dots on the dot watch website, dot
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dot CC Digest. In the Digest we bring you some
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bite sized tranks of ultra distance news and goings on,
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which of course are recently so lee we've got in
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the US there is the Triple Crown. Have we got one?
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Have we got one this side of the Atlantic now?
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So we had to copy naturally and we've come up
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with our own, called the UK Triple Crown.
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We have.
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The so this is very exciting.
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The UK has long been a place where bike packing
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and strong community for races, despite the small bounds of
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the nation. However, nothing linked the megaliths of the racing
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world until now. So the Dells divide Highland twelve five
484
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.279
point fifty and North Wales four hundred have now created
485
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:54.640
the UK Triple Crown. So these three races, created by
486
00:27:54.759 --> 00:27:58.880
Chris Ellison, Alan Goldsmith and Tom Bruce respectively, happened all
487
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.599
over the UK season and are all mountain bike leaning
488
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:05.119
off road races, one in England, one in Scotland and
489
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:08.799
one in Wales, covering all the mainland UK nations. So
490
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.799
the team explains in each calendar year. A rider who
491
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.440
competes in all three routes with the fastest overall time
492
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.319
will be the winner and holder of the UK Triple Crown.
493
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:21.200
Any rider who completes all three within the cutoff times
494
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:26.119
will be UK Triple Crown finisher. A UKTC rider can
495
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.519
complete them either on the mass start data or ride
496
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:32.480
the routes itt using track Leaders at any time within
497
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:35.039
the year. They then explain that the races will main
498
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.599
grass roots, with the fees only going to the tracking
499
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.640
costs and a donation to the charity of the organizer's choice.
500
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.559
All three races follow similar formats included. They are grassroots events,
501
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.079
each well established. An entry is either free or very
502
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.519
low low cost donation. They will each be tracked on
503
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:54.079
track leaders dot Com so that dot watchers can follow
504
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:57.559
them live, but importantly too that the rider's results can
505
00:28:57.599 --> 00:28:59.759
be live in real time and straightforward to follow.
506
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:05.960
It's an interesting, interesting initiative, and it's interesting too that
507
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.720
they were all all free or low cost events that
508
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.240
you're mentioning with with Dell's divides, and I think it's
509
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:14.559
really interesting topic to look into in the future. How
510
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:19.880
what what you get for race entry fees with some
511
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:23.640
of them, some of them being quite quite expensive.
512
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:26.400
I haven't heard of North Wales for one hundreds, so
513
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.559
I'll be interested to look at that a little bit more.
514
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:31.119
But it's nice to tie those in. It just makes
515
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:34.680
sense you'd have obviously races from each each mainland.
516
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:37.759
Yeah, it's I'm sure. I'm sure that'll get a big
517
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:40.960
boost on this and you know it should be interesting
518
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.000
people who who want to completely more? Is it something
519
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:45.599
which tickles your fancy.
520
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:47.359
I'd love to do the Highland Trail.
521
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.880
There you go, hopefully, hopefully you'll get a place thanks
522
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.000
to you.
523
00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:53.960
Well, we'll see things, we'll see.
524
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:00.680
And that was an exclusive for doctor there was reliable
525
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:05.400
to reliable to get your scoops. I also have a
526
00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:10.880
bit of a scoop. Again, I cannot reveal the source
527
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:15.000
for this one, but I hear words that next year
528
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.680
Near Cursed Race will be taking the year's break. I
529
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:21.160
believe the intention noise was that there to be two
530
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:26.319
routes for this race, which is out in Balkans run
531
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:31.079
by run by Lost Dot who. It's their fixed route
532
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:35.440
off road. Event so, because apparently it took them so
533
00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:38.680
long to wreckie the first route, they need next year
534
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:40.839
to next year to take a break from the event
535
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:43.119
to RECKI the new route so that from then on
536
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:47.599
they can have alternative alternative routes each year. Yeah, so
537
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.039
if you're thinking about racing the Curse Race in the future,
538
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.400
hold your horses until twenty twenty seven.
539
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:59.519
A new route, lovely, and maybe let's let's mention the
540
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:00.599
shop over the month.
541
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:05.319
Yeah. Well, one event which has going going on down
542
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:09.000
Under at the moment is the Indian Pacific Wheel Ride
543
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:16.920
as it is now, and Lawrence Waters aka laws is
544
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:22.599
not content with just riding the Indian Pacific Wheel Ride.
545
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:27.240
He's also riding on a fixed gear track bike and
546
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.559
once he's finished, he's going to keep on going to
547
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:35.160
do a circumnavigation of Australia, so that will cover fourteen thousand,
548
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:39.279
two hundred kilometers. And not only that, but at the
549
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:42.000
moment he is currently third on the road in the
550
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.319
Indian Pacific wheel Race, having done over three thousand kilometers.
551
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:50.079
So maybe I could have waited until he's finished to
552
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.559
give him his chapeau, but I think what he's what
553
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:54.599
he's done so far, what he's setting out to do,
554
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.680
deserves deserves me to take off my hat and to
555
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.720
give it give him Chapeau chapeau in a month, so
556
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.720
keep it up, Laws and you will. He's got his
557
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.000
own tracking page on the dot watcher website, so you
558
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.720
can go for the Tour de Laws twenty twenty five.
559
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:14.240
Miss half of the month.
560
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.400
We want you to send in your submissions of amusing
561
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.720
anecdotes when something didn't go quite right in your ultra
562
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.880
distance events. This could also be just out for a
563
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.880
ride as well, so keep it light hearted and clean, folks.
564
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:31.359
This month we have audio from Laura Woods. So here
565
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:31.640
we go.
566
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.039
Hi, there's my.
567
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.960
Mishap of the month. So at the weekend, I was
568
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.519
meeting some friends for a ride and I needed to
569
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.119
take my bike in the car.
570
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:44.559
Normally this is an easy.
571
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:48.160
Job, like you just whipped the front wheel off, except
572
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.079
for fifteen minutes later I was still there, huffing and
573
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.480
puffing and just getting absolutely nowhere.
574
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:56.039
So by this point.
575
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:58.480
I'm getting it at flustered, I'm running a late I thought, oh,
576
00:32:58.759 --> 00:32:59.599
like sold the.
577
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:01.039
Whole bike just going in.
578
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.400
It's just going in the car. Now, I drive a mini.
579
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.720
My bike has never fit hole in the car before,
580
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:09.960
so obviously it.
581
00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:11.920
Didn't fit this time either.
582
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:16.160
Back out she comes, I go full caveman, get my
583
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:20.599
feet involved. Boom, the wheel finally comes off. Turns out
584
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.240
I've been turning the axle key the wrong way in
585
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:26.559
the most part, so I've just made it really tight,
586
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:31.039
so it must have been about still half asleep clearly. Anyway,
587
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:34.519
I get to the meetup, I put my bike back together,
588
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.039
rolled off, and immediately I'm thinking, by really like it
589
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.359
feels so robbly, like I must have gotten like far
590
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:46.000
too used to being on my forty mil gravel tires,
591
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.960
because now my road bike feels like I'm like balancing
592
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.480
on dental floss. So I spent the whole ride convinced
593
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:56.039
that my balance had just absolutely gotten to pop.
594
00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:57.400
Anyway.
595
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.359
Under the ride, I glanced at my leaning against all
596
00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:04.160
I think something looks like it.
597
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.279
Just doesn't look right.
598
00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:10.079
Anyway. It turns out when i'd be stuffing my bike
599
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:14.280
into my car, i'd l likely not the handlebars or center.
600
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:18.679
And I've been riding at a skew the entire time.
601
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:20.599
So there you go.
602
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:27.239
That's my mishap of the month so far. Bye, Thanks,
603
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:31.320
thanks Woodsy, and yeah, and I'm sure it wasn't a last.
604
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.800
Now it's time for the round table now it's time
605
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:39.719
for the round the table.
606
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.440
Media coverage telling the story of self supported ultra distance
607
00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:58.400
events has been instrumental to the growth of the sport,
608
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.280
not just in relating experience of the riders to a
609
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.880
wider audience, but inspiring many to make the transition from
610
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.719
dot watcher to being a dot on the map. However,
611
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:11.719
the presence of the media creuse, especially when personal to
612
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.519
a rider, has been the source of some controversy. Some
613
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:18.559
view personal media crews as an element of support, which
614
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:22.119
can run counter to the self sufficient principles of the sport.
615
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:26.840
Many events now even have explicit restrictions on personal film crews,
616
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.320
such as the Arizona Trail Race, which state in their
617
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:33.920
rules no support cruise as this is a self supportive challenge.
618
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:38.400
This includes personal media crews. ASTR views this as support.
619
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:42.519
Feel free to self document as you like, so even
620
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.000
even when the media crew is neutral and covering the
621
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.519
event in general, care must be taken to do so
622
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:50.519
in a non intrusive way while still providing an insight
623
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:54.800
to their audience. Today, we've gathered three distinguished guests who
624
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:57.400
have vast experience on both sides of the lens and
625
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.639
microphone and editing studio to discuss that's the role of
626
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:05.000
media coverage that self supported ultra distance events. So our
627
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:09.280
first guest is Meghan Hackinan, who is a Kelowna based
628
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:13.320
ultra distance cyclist and writer who is racing almost every
629
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:18.119
surface and format including road, gravel, mountain and time trial,
630
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:21.480
even being two times World twenty four hour Time Try champion.
631
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.800
I started to write out her pal mares, but my
632
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.760
hands soon went into cramps and writing winner and FKT
633
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:31.000
so many times so just in the past year she
634
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:36.280
was first overall at the Arkansas High Country Race, seventh
635
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.519
at the Tour Divide, finishing first first woman and setting
636
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.599
the FKT for the Grand Departs, and nineteenth at the
637
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.239
recent ass Mountain Race, and also the second woman. If
638
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:50.239
that's not enough, She's also offered two books. So welcome Meghan.
639
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.360
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to dive
640
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:54.480
into this topic.
641
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:56.199
And moving on to Rob Gardner.
642
00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:56.719
Now.
643
00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:59.159
Rob started his journey, like most of the Black Packers,
644
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:03.519
a sense of wonderful adventure and curiosity to cross countries
645
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:06.679
and continents. So this has led to an extensive list
646
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:09.679
of countries he has traveled and also obviously cycle through,
647
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:12.639
but also to an extensive list of projects he's involved in.
648
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:16.119
So in twenty twenty one he co founded the Perfidious Albion,
649
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.400
which is a very very good ultraistent cycling event, also
650
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.840
becoming the UK franchiser for Follow My Challenge, which is
651
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.719
a leading GPS tracking provider. As well also utilizing his
652
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.320
skills as a web developer, works alongside brands such as
653
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.440
Solar Wheels or Products, Wild Carrots and Wild Huts.
654
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:36.519
Say hello rob.
655
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:40.719
Hi, Thanks thanks for trying to flesh that out after Megan.
656
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.800
Zelustrisk my hand went into cramp.
657
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:49.199
As well my GCSS to just run off and last
658
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:53.159
but the means least we have James Robertson, who Edinburgh
659
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:57.440
based photographer who was officially photographed five editions of the
660
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:03.400
trans Continental Race, the Transatlantic Way, two Volcano Sprints, and independently.
661
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:06.239
Photographed the Highland Trail, Fair fifty and the Adventure Syndicates
662
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:11.039
many misadventures. He apparently doesn't consider himself as such a
663
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:16.280
sports photographer. Rather it's the people that he's interested in documenting. However,
664
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:19.159
he may be best known for his tendency to follow
665
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.880
cyclists into toilets, having a page on his website dedicated
666
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.480
to the subject and champion the hashtag cyclists in Toilets.
667
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:31.559
James also has a book called It's a Race, Imagery
668
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:35.400
of Transpontent into Race, which includes dramatic landscapes, intimate portraits,
669
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:38.639
and emotive reports reporting for five years following the race.
670
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:43.440
So welcome James, Hi, and yeah, thank you for bringing
671
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:44.519
up the toilets.
672
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:48.880
It was on your website, so I was from there.
673
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.360
We'll start with the opening questions. If it's okay, James,
674
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:56.840
I'm going to start with you, what, in your opinion
675
00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:00.440
is the primary role of a media crew at Antent
676
00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:01.119
cycling event.
677
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.719
James, Well, I can tell you how I came into it,
678
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:08.039
which is really from a curiosity about what these races were.
679
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.199
I had friends who were writing them and telling these
680
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:13.360
amazing stories in the pub and in a way the
681
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.639
imagery that I was seeing at that point just didn't
682
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:19.719
match up to what I was seeing. So from my
683
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:21.559
kind of first way into it was that kind of
684
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:25.239
like I want to see what that's like, and I
685
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.079
want to I want to understand it, and for me,
686
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.280
the best way to do that is by going somewhere
687
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:33.920
and taking pictures, and from there I wanted to show
688
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.559
other people what it was like and that kind of thing. However,
689
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.519
I think with the wording for your question, you're asking
690
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:42.719
a slightly different thing, which is what is that role
691
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:43.159
of the.
692
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:44.079
Media crew in races?
693
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:46.760
And I think a lot of it is it's promotion
694
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:49.760
and its sponsorship, and it's as much as we want
695
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:51.840
to kind of bring more people into the race and
696
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:54.239
show it and share it, a lot of the imagery
697
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:58.199
that's being produced has it's the primary thing that's given
698
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:02.960
to sponsors and used by sponsors essentially as a form
699
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.239
of advertising. So I think there is that part of
700
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:08.119
it that's really really linked to the more kind of
701
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:10.000
financial side of the races.
702
00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:14.039
I mean, I'm guessing that's not why you got into
703
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:14.719
it in the first place.
704
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.960
So James, no, no, no, no, I mean, and it's
705
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:21.559
just a straight up curiosity and a lot of the
706
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:25.039
time jealousy that people make it look so easy. So
707
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:27.199
I just desperately want to find the bits where they,
708
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:29.320
you know, you can see how hard it really is.
709
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:33.480
And I guess for you, Meghan, do you kind of
710
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.719
have like an idea of perceived idea of what you
711
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:37.239
feel the media crew should be.
712
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:41.199
Yeah, So, as a writer, I feel like, I'm into
713
00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:44.199
stories and the human experience, so I think their primary
714
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:47.400
role is telling the story of the event to give
715
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.519
this wild, disparate experience some sort of shape, some sort
716
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:53.519
of atmosphere. I think that really comes across well with
717
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:56.199
like the TCR media coverage and the black and white
718
00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:59.920
photos and kind of throw back to the heroic cycle
719
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.239
lists of yesteryear. And I think it's also to highlight
720
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:07.559
the experience of some of the key players in the competitions,
721
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.039
as well as the human interest stories like the you know,
722
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:15.440
the crazy pub stories that James was talking about that
723
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:16.880
that could be anywhere in the pack.
724
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:19.920
Nice and Rob.
725
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.920
Yeah, I guess I have a slightly different perspective, probably
726
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.239
shaped by spending my life staring at dots with my
727
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:29.440
with all of my challenges. I think kind of bringing
728
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:31.519
those dots to life is the primary thing for me,
729
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.280
and quite often because I also get out in the
730
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.840
field and do some photography, not to James's level, but
731
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:40.719
a little bit, And I'm always amazed how the perception
732
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:42.840
of what you think the dots are going to be
733
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:44.719
like when you're looking at screen and then you get
734
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:46.800
there and you're like, oh, this is a totally different story.
735
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:51.920
I think there was. There was one recently where as
736
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:53.519
a rider who was riding through the night at one
737
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.079
of the events that I do, and he had just
738
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:57.360
gone like forty hours straight, and I was expecting this
739
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.840
kind of shell of a human because he was slowing down,
740
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:01.679
slowing down, You're thinking, oh, no, he's going to be
741
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:05.559
some zombie. Actually he was absolutely fine, totally lucid, but
742
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:08.119
his crank was falling apart, so it's pedaling with one
743
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:11.079
leg and that's why it's going slowly. So I think
744
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:13.280
you don't see any of that unless there's someone there
745
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:17.079
with a camera. I'm probably a would push back on
746
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:20.719
the idea that it's all sponsorship. I mean, certainly from
747
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:23.880
my conversations with organizers, there's no money except at the
748
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:26.119
very top of the sport, and people are taking photos
749
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:29.360
at almost every event. So yeah, James is probably right
750
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.280
that once you get to the level of TCR and Mr, yeah,
751
00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:35.119
it probably is about sponsorship there, but below that there's
752
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.119
basically no sponsor money. So I think you've got to
753
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.199
have another reason. And I think actually entry fees are
754
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.880
paying for media crews in most places, and that's because
755
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:45.559
we kind of love to share the experience.
756
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:49.480
And James, do you find that it's obviously the bigger
757
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:51.559
the event. Do they tend to have more of their
758
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.920
own media crew or is it? And then is it
759
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.480
more like smaller events have more kind of free for all.
760
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.440
The bigger events are actually hardly something like that TCR
761
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:02.679
that has more money. It doesn't really matter when your
762
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:05.719
race is four thousand klumters across Europe. You can throw
763
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:08.360
quite a few photographers at that and you're still barely
764
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:12.280
scratching the surface. Whereas a small and more compact race
765
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:14.199
and you can get about more and you can see
766
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:16.599
more of it. You know, for instance, a highland trail
767
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:19.760
one person can you know, dot about and see quite
768
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:20.880
a few different places.
769
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:25.440
So come back to what we mentioned in the introduction
770
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:29.400
about maybe some of the controversies and how the media
771
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:34.039
crew can interact with the riders without being intrusive. So
772
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:38.800
how I think maybe James the start of you again here,
773
00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:41.960
how do you think the media crew can interactive riders
774
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.880
and coverty action without influencing the self supporting nature of
775
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:46.280
the sport.
776
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:49.239
So I think they're always going to have an effect,
777
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:51.440
and I think you have to come from it from
778
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:54.159
that point of view. Of like, yeah, you can limit
779
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:57.440
that effect, but you know it does. You see riders
780
00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:59.920
change when you approach them, when they find you and
781
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.559
there they want the interaction. But yeah, so you've got
782
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:05.119
to be very conscious of the fact that you do
783
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:07.679
have an effect and that you know, you've got to
784
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.280
choose how you do that and whether you're going to
785
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.480
try and you know, sometimes it's quite intrusive, but it's
786
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:16.440
quite short lived and that's almost better than it being
787
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:19.679
you know, a car driving alongside you for half an hour.
788
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.280
But there's that there's just that balance of being aware
789
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:25.679
that you do have an impact and trying to find
790
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:29.480
some ways to mitigate that and either through spending less
791
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:32.159
time with each rider or just general and predictability. You know,
792
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:34.440
I think if there's if riders know they're going to
793
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:38.840
see someone that's quite different from I'll look, there's the
794
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:40.599
photographer and are they've gone now?
795
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:46.280
And it's maybe I'm interested in your your viewing this
796
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:50.320
and how how do you experience that when you come
797
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:55.079
across media crew and well, whether it's the media crew
798
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:58.480
in general or if there's been cases where you where well,
799
00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:01.079
it's a question if you've had personal following you any
800
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:02.199
of these events.
801
00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:05.840
Yeah, I'm a really interesting person to have. I'm from
802
00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:09.239
Canada and we don't have media crews in Canada. None
803
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:11.840
of our events have media crews. We are very grassroots.
804
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:14.280
We don't usually have entry fees, so we don't have
805
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:17.639
a budget to have a media crew, right. So one
806
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:19.920
of my first interactions with the media crew came and
807
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.679
then North Cape four thousand. I did it in twenty nineteen,
808
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:27.639
and they were they were Italian like, very friendly and outgoing.
809
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:29.400
I think I always got kisses from them when I
810
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:33.039
saw them, which I'm not sure is normal, but it was.
811
00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:36.119
It was definitely a boost. But it's also that that's
812
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:40.039
more of an event than a race, so I don't Yeah,
813
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:42.679
I don't like I guess maybe it was a boost,
814
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:44.599
but it was an event people are allowed to draft
815
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.199
and ride together and things that are not okay and
816
00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:51.159
other types of races. I've also never had a personal
817
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:53.880
media crew because I've never had sponsors to pay for one,
818
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:57.000
So I don't know what that what that is like either.
819
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:00.679
I guess from my experience as an at it's not
820
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:05.239
the media team being intrusive so much as the writers
821
00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:07.840
leaning into the media crew, and maybe I don't want
822
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:11.119
to say desperation, but this neediness of being on the road,
823
00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:15.280
and I think having really good information in the pre
824
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:18.800
brief before the event or in the race manual, saying like, hey,
825
00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:21.480
there's going to be a media team. These are the
826
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:25.719
number of vehicles, these are what the expectations are. You
827
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:27.840
know they're you know you can send to have your
828
00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:30.920
photo taken unless dated otherwise, and you know you can
829
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:33.360
talk to them or not talk to them, and you know,
830
00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:36.320
here here are your options, I guess, and I think
831
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:38.280
just being briefed on all that so that you know
832
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.719
going into it what to what to expect, and what
833
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:43.880
you can give or not give. I'll give another example.
834
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.199
In twenty twenty one, I was doing the BC Epic
835
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:49.679
one thousand here in British Columbia. There was someone filming
836
00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.280
for a media project who had the event director's permission,
837
00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:54.400
and because I was in the lead, he ended up
838
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:57.360
following me a lot and talking with me quite a bit.
839
00:46:57.760 --> 00:46:59.320
And because it was the first time I was in
840
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:01.480
the lead, I stop and wait for him to catch
841
00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:03.719
up to me to do interviews with him. And I
842
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:07.079
would never do that now, but I think I because
843
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.880
it was my first first or second event with the
844
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:13.639
media crew, and because I did want this race wind
845
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:17.480
to be documented for for all of history, I changed
846
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.880
my race strategy to meet with the person and the
847
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.559
media crew. And yes, a really nice ten minute film
848
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:25.800
came out of it, but I probably could erased it
849
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:27.880
like an hour or two faster if I wasn't sitting
850
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:31.800
around waiting for him at spots. So I guess those
851
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:33.360
are those are some of my thoughts.
852
00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:38.000
And so do you find there's a mental boost perhaps
853
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:42.039
by seeing media crew and having having attention on you?
854
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:46.119
I would say in most cases yes, But I also
855
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:47.920
get like a mental boost from someone giving me a
856
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:49.960
thumbs up from the passenger seat of a car. Right,
857
00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:52.199
So I think, as James said, there's there's going to
858
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:55.440
be some sort of impact, but there's there's all sorts
859
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:58.599
of things that can can boost you up, and you know,
860
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.239
the sign on the side of the road or just
861
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:03.440
little things, especially when you're in this kind of like
862
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:08.760
fatigued state. It can also be a real nuisance. When
863
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:11.800
I was doing the Atlas Mountain Rapes recently, I had
864
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:15.440
like explosive diarrhea on day three and I was terrified
865
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.559
the media crew would be like taking one of those
866
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:20.599
landscape photos and catching me squatting behind a rock in
867
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:25.039
the desert, and I thought about actually calling the race
868
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:27.000
director and being like, Hey, can you just let the
869
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.440
media crew to lay off me for a day like
870
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:32.280
this is this is really embarrassing. And I didn't do that,
871
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:35.360
but maybe I should have. I'm not sure. So it
872
00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:41.800
can have a stressful impact as well as a boosting one.
873
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:46.760
And it seems like this important distinction between whether there's
874
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:50.079
a media crew which is following the event in general
875
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:55.039
and it's potentially random who they come across, but maybe
876
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:57.920
they will be talking certain people with certain stories at
877
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:02.199
certain parts of the race. As as an event organizer,
878
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:08.639
do you have any restrictions on personal media crew and
879
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:11.559
how does this? Yeah? How does how does this play out?
880
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:12.079
In your view?
881
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:15.719
I mean the events I organized are definitely not on
882
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:18.039
the level where you know you've got like GCN turning
883
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:21.480
up with with personal media crews. So I haven't really
884
00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:24.119
faced that. And I think what Megan said about there's
885
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:27.360
this difference between kind of ultra prestigious races and then
886
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:30.840
the more relaxed bike packing events and everything. One has
887
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:34.199
their own rules. I think, yeah, I don't have experience
888
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:38.320
of that other than with the work I've done with Transcontinental,
889
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:42.360
where there's obviously been a lot of focus on the
890
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:47.320
media crews following riders there, and there's because they've had
891
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:50.320
personal media crews this year, i think for three riders,
892
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.000
and there was obviously very very strict rules on what
893
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:57.719
they could do, and they were tracked independently and monitored
894
00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:00.880
extremely closely. So I've had I'm exposed to it there
895
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:02.800
at the kind of the pointy end of it. But
896
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:04.760
I think a lot of it goes back to what
897
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:08.880
James said about predictability, that if you can be unpredictable
898
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.679
in your coverage, then you're taking away a lot of
899
00:50:11.719 --> 00:50:15.639
the psychological boost even when there's that familiarity of a
900
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:18.719
personal crew, I think if it's unpredictable, it's it's definitely
901
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.960
can have less of an impact. I think the other
902
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.960
risk of if you have a relationship is that unintentional
903
00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:30.840
information sharing, because I think James kind of touched on
904
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:33.239
this about it being kind of a one way conversation
905
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:36.119
that you should let the rider open up rather than
906
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.440
you intruding on them, and if you if it becomes
907
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:41.920
a full on conversation, then there's a risk that information
908
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.559
goes the other way, especially if you're familiar already with
909
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:48.760
the person. So that's that's the risk. But for me,
910
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:52.199
the biggest concern, and this kind of goes to AMR
911
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.000
as Megnut was saying, is that if you know that
912
00:50:55.039 --> 00:51:00.039
the media crew's there, does that change how you'll ride?
913
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:02.199
And obviously if the front of the race is being
914
00:51:02.199 --> 00:51:05.000
covered more intently, will they ride differently because they know
915
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:08.599
that a media car, whether personal or race media is close.
916
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:12.199
And I think we did potentially see this. We could
917
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.199
have seen it last year with there was a rider
918
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:18.039
at AMR who got dehydration and ended up in the
919
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:22.400
in the media car and possibly completely unrelated to hypothesizing yet,
920
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:25.400
but you know, could he have behaved differently because he
921
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.280
knew that the media car was close. I don't know.
922
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:31.280
If we see that happening a few times, then people
923
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.039
might start to, you know, think that there is a
924
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:36.039
there is kind of causation and correlation there. And I
925
00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:38.280
think that's so that's a risk because it's causing people
926
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:41.199
to do things that are inherently unsafe, not not regardless
927
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:43.639
of the race integrity. We don't want to see people
928
00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:46.880
risking their lives because they think they can just bail
929
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:49.760
into a media car, whether even if it's subconscious, so
930
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:51.719
that that's what I think the biggest concern for me is,
931
00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:53.400
I think.
932
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:55.960
A crucial part of this is how that interaction is
933
00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:58.840
sell between the media crew and the riders, and how
934
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:03.800
how that's in chaded and sort of gauging that response
935
00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:07.000
of how much your riders want to give for interested gems.
936
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:11.440
How when you've covered the races, how have you generally
937
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:14.199
gone about this, because obviously you want the content, but
938
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:18.960
you then not in a way in which the riders
939
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:19.840
want to give it to you.
940
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:23.719
Yeah, And I think we're quite lucky in these races
941
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.480
because people are so they're kind of they're so involved
942
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:29.360
in it, they're so tired by the time you find
943
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:32.079
them that actually a lot of their kind of there's
944
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:35.119
no shyness that they don't really have the energy to
945
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:37.519
be too upset about you being there unless there's something
946
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:41.000
where they really don't want you to be there, which
947
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:42.760
I don't think ever really happened.
948
00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:43.599
It's kind of.
949
00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:48.000
You know, people are quite they're generally up for kind
950
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.280
of sharing what they're going through, even when you're in
951
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.320
quite personal spaces.
952
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:57.920
With them bathrooms.
953
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:00.000
But well or hotel rooms.
954
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:02.239
I mean, like on the TCR, I was in one
955
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:04.199
of the control points and saw a guy walking through
956
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:05.960
the hotel carrying two bags of ice.
957
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:08.239
You're like, well, I'm gonna follow you.
958
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:11.599
I'm gonna find out what you're icing and wear, and
959
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:13.119
I'm just going to walk into the room after you
960
00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:17.519
unless you tell me specifically to not. Because you start
961
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:20.519
asking for explicit permission, you open up that conversation and
962
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:24.519
it becomes this whole kind of almost performative photo creation
963
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:27.400
thing where I'd rather just I'll follow you and you
964
00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:28.719
can tell me to go away if you don't want
965
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:30.199
me to be there, but if you let me and
966
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:32.000
I'll just take a couple of pictures and then wander off.
967
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:35.400
I don't think you would have wanted to follow me
968
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.360
into the bathroom on day three of the James tell
969
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:41.239
you that right now, but I'm sure you could have
970
00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:41.800
intuited that.
971
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:45.199
Yeah, the fact that you went and cower behind a
972
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:47.639
rock I think is enough clues.
973
00:53:48.920 --> 00:53:50.840
But can you just imagine that little head just above
974
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:51.920
the rock in the landscape.
975
00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:55.000
I mean, but it's.
976
00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.519
These things that like you, they do kind of speak
977
00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:00.840
of the whole experience. And there's the photo of Beyond
978
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:03.159
in the toilet on the TCR as well, and there's
979
00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:05.679
so many people who've seen that picture who were like
980
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:09.119
I was in a very similar situation in a different location.
981
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:11.760
It was there was a kind of shared experience in
982
00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:17.239
this kind of just moment of being completely just in
983
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:19.159
such a place that you've just got to deal with it,
984
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:20.280
and you'll deal with it wherever.
985
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.480
When did you first go into a toilet and film
986
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:25.800
someone out of interest?
987
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:27.000
Did it just happen?
988
00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:30.679
Well, because I mean, the TCR is quite because of
989
00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:33.159
the control points on the TCR and the fact that
990
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:34.920
people are there but they're not really staying there, but
991
00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:37.719
they will go and use a hotel bathroom and there's
992
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.199
always one in reception, and by the time there's two
993
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:42.360
or three riders in there, the door's not shutting anyway,
994
00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:46.360
so you're kind of you know, it's inviting you in
995
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:47.119
more than anything.
996
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:52.480
Actually reminds me I've been photographed in a toilet, but
997
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:54.119
I was I was brushing my teeth with all my
998
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:58.760
clothes on, so it's quite respectable. I'd say, well, that's the.
999
00:54:58.679 --> 00:54:59.800
Game, it's lots of interest.
1000
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:03.760
That's your gateway drop rushing your teeth.
1001
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:07.079
Right.
1002
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:10.199
Moving on to the next question, does the media crew
1003
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.159
have a duty to provide balance coverage of the event
1004
00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:17.159
regardless of how close to the pointy end the writers are.
1005
00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:19.639
I'd like to start with Megan, and now I know
1006
00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:23.599
you are at the pointy end usually of races. I
1007
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:26.440
guess how I want to direct this to you. How
1008
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:28.360
does it make you react? I guess in a race situation.
1009
00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:31.159
Yeah, Like I said, most of the events I've done
1010
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:33.559
haven't had media crews, so it's been kind of a
1011
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:37.840
newer thing for me to to engage with as well.
1012
00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:43.400
I think in theory it sounds like you would, you know,
1013
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:46.039
want to race harder and push yourself more and not
1014
00:55:46.119 --> 00:55:48.840
have the media crew catch you, like hiking your bike
1015
00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:51.679
up a climb because you're too fatigued. But I think
1016
00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:53.920
in reality kind of similar to what James was saying,
1017
00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:57.719
when you're out there you're so fatigued and broken down,
1018
00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.719
you kind of just are who you are at that point,
1019
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.159
So I don't actually feel like it makes much of
1020
00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:06.159
a difference. Like I know, an Atlas Mountain race, they
1021
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:08.599
definitely caught me pushing a bike up a hill, and
1022
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:11.000
I remember thinking to myself, Like I wish I could
1023
00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:13.360
be riding right now, but I can't, so I'm gonna
1024
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:17.960
I'm just going to be myself and there's no other option. Really.
1025
00:56:18.440 --> 00:56:20.280
I kind of feel like all the best races have
1026
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:23.840
those necessary hiker bike ruits to get you to those
1027
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:27.960
beautiful places anyway, and I think as a photographer or
1028
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:30.519
any type of media, that's exactly where i'd be because
1029
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:32.719
you know what's going to be happening, and you're going
1030
00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:35.039
to catch the people at the weakest as well. Great
1031
00:56:35.079 --> 00:56:39.119
Fifield expressions exactly. Yeah, I hate I hate pushing a bike.
1032
00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:41.920
It feels like you're giving up, but it's necessary. I
1033
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:43.920
don't know if you remember Rob in the Bano. I'm
1034
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:46.679
not sure which part it was, but maybe Foreigner k In.
1035
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:50.400
Is that like one pass and there's no way you
1036
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:53.320
can ride that. It's about two kilometers and it's like
1037
00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:54.199
chunky rocks.
1038
00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:57.000
I think that's the gap in the work and beatings.
1039
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:57.679
That's the one.
1040
00:56:57.840 --> 00:56:59.280
Yeah, that was horrific.
1041
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:00.760
Yeah, great, right.
1042
00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:06.199
In the middle of the night. Oh wow, I drank
1043
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:07.920
from a stream there, which was a bad idea.
1044
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:12.239
A week later o god, well, luckily it was a
1045
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:12.599
week la.
1046
00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:16.440
So after you finished James, I guess in the Highland Trail,
1047
00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:19.079
maybe it's different because, as you said, you had places
1048
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:21.039
where you'd kind of stake out and you'd see the
1049
00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:23.519
course of writers coming through rather than kind of following
1050
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:27.559
people around. But I guess from a personal perspective and
1051
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:29.880
a professional perspective, do you feel like you have to
1052
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:32.239
get the points end just for the sponsors or do
1053
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:35.079
you feel like you're you're more kind of able to
1054
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:37.800
get the whole story with different people, especially at the
1055
00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:38.400
back as well.
1056
00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:42.320
I mean, I'm often restricted by what vehicle I'm in
1057
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:45.000
because often you're in a you know, not a media
1058
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.519
specific vehicle, so you're you're in a car that's got
1059
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:49.679
other things to do, so you might be putting the
1060
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:51.079
one at the front or the one in the middle.
1061
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:56.159
I think it's so exciting watching the race, and I
1062
00:57:56.360 --> 00:57:58.119
think we've maybe not mentioned this yet, but like when
1063
00:57:58.119 --> 00:58:01.280
you meet a dot in person, even as someone who's
1064
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:04.679
photographed lots, it's like it's really exciting to see them,
1065
00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:07.960
and it's really hard to like keep your interaction.
1066
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:08.440
The way you want it to be.
1067
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:12.519
But yeah, I mean I think for me, I'm interested
1068
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.320
in stories, Like a lot of the photography that I'm
1069
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:20.280
doing out in races is kind of you line up
1070
00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:21.840
a picture, you go somewhere where there's going to be
1071
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:23.920
a nice picture. Someone might be pushing a bike, and
1072
00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:26.320
you know, you compose something nice and you wait for
1073
00:58:26.320 --> 00:58:29.159
them to come past. But you're actually what you're really
1074
00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:30.360
doing is you're just trying to be in the right
1075
00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:33.639
place when something else interesting happens. It's rarely the picture
1076
00:58:33.639 --> 00:58:35.360
that you're trying to take which ends up being the
1077
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.159
one that actually says something about the race. So for me,
1078
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:40.719
I'm much more interested in chasing stories than I am
1079
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:45.360
in following the pointy end or anywhere in particular. But
1080
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:47.679
that can be hard when a race is over hundreds
1081
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:48.679
and hundreds of kilometers.
1082
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:52.360
Going back to your excitement, because I saw your eyes
1083
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:57.519
glimmer there, what has been maybe something you'd like to mention,
1084
00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:00.960
like one kind of dot that has come to life
1085
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:04.199
that you've that's been a really cool memory, or something
1086
00:59:04.239 --> 00:59:06.679
that was quite emotional, maybe out of interest just for
1087
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:08.400
the listeners, I guess, because that's quite interesting.
1088
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:12.880
Oh, I mean there's do you know it's not a
1089
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:14.760
dot actually that comes to mind. It's more like a
1090
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:17.440
particular part of the race. So The Highland Trail has
1091
00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:20.119
a river crossing that's renowned for either being anchored deep
1092
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:24.400
or shoulder deep. And there was one year when Jenny
1093
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:27.199
Graham tried to cross it and everyone was watching this dot,
1094
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:29.360
this little dot going up and down the river for
1095
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:31.719
like a whole day trying to find somewhere she could cross.
1096
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:35.159
And I spent years wanting to go back for when
1097
00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:39.960
it was actually a deep river crossing, and eventually I
1098
00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:42.719
did it, and it was actually with the rider who
1099
00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:44.199
was in the front that I ended up being with
1100
00:59:44.239 --> 00:59:46.840
when he crossed it. But it was that kind of
1101
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:50.159
getting that moment that you'd heard about one of these
1102
00:59:50.199 --> 00:59:52.760
stories and actually trying to turn it into an image
1103
00:59:53.079 --> 00:59:55.280
and actually seeing it and connecting it all up with
1104
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:58.400
a person with a place that was really that was
1105
00:59:58.440 --> 00:59:59.000
really nice.
1106
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:03.159
I guess that would kind of look like someone like
1107
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:05.760
a ping pong, you know, like those old ping pong games,
1108
01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:07.239
just going across the screen.
1109
01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:09.480
That wud be quite fun. That's good dot watching.
1110
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:14.039
Moving on to Rob, I guess as a race organizer,
1111
01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:18.360
probably most aptly, do you feel it's very important to
1112
01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:21.239
get the whole spectrum of the race or do you
1113
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:23.239
feel like the points gen tends to be the kind
1114
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.679
of main focus.
1115
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:28.599
I think, first of all, it is the organizer's cool.
1116
01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:31.280
I mean, we all have different priorities, and certainly if
1117
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:35.119
you're covering a very competitive race, then I think there's
1118
01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:37.159
a greater onus. And I think there is an inherent
1119
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:39.159
conflict between the story of the race and the story
1120
01:00:39.159 --> 01:00:42.199
of the riders, and they overlap, and often it can
1121
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:44.599
be the same. If your lead rider has some kind
1122
01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:47.599
of crazy happenings, then that might be the story you
1123
01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:50.159
come away with. But often the story of the race
1124
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:52.159
is very different to the story of the riders. And
1125
01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:55.800
for me, you know, I'm not organizing. It's the technically
1126
01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:58.840
not races. They're just events. They're very relaxed and we
1127
01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:01.280
want everyone to feel welcome, and I find that often
1128
01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:03.199
the stories and the back of the pack are actually
1129
01:01:03.400 --> 01:01:08.280
way more interesting. So I'm very happy to cover everyone,
1130
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:10.159
and I'd like to cover everyone that We actually have
1131
01:01:11.239 --> 01:01:13.360
a mantra that we will get at least one photo
1132
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:17.280
of every single rider across the pack. And that might
1133
01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:19.280
sound easy, and it is if you sit on the
1134
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:22.599
top of the first hill, but you know, people scratch
1135
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.559
very quickly, so that's quite hard actually, and I think
1136
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:27.440
if you do that, then you or you often end
1137
01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:30.559
up with some really like much more interesting stories because
1138
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:32.960
the people at the front are often the ones they
1139
01:01:33.039 --> 01:01:36.000
might push them their limits, they might have some kind
1140
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.199
of crazy experiences, but they're also often more experienced and
1141
01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:43.199
don't make the mistakes that we kind of enjoy telling
1142
01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:46.679
the stories about all the city happenings. But then sometimes,
1143
01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:48.199
like James said, you just happen to be in the
1144
01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:51.480
right place. Like we had the Perfidious album last year.
1145
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:53.719
We were at the final checkpoint, which is literally like
1146
01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:57.639
it's forty kilometers or something fifty cometers from the finish
1147
01:01:57.960 --> 01:02:00.880
and the guys there with in the lead Alexander, I
1148
01:02:00.920 --> 01:02:03.039
think you've got a three four hour leads something like
1149
01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:05.360
that big lead. I've just taken a few pictures to
1150
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.719
him sunsetting, I'm about to go back, and he's like, oh,
1151
01:02:07.880 --> 01:02:12.239
brake's rubbing, I'll just change my pads. And it fast
1152
01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:15.280
forward half an hour. He's ruined his front caliper. His
1153
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:19.199
bike's unrideable and he has to walk it back down
1154
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:21.960
the hill, get a hotel and wait for a bike
1155
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:25.880
shop to open the next morning. In the meantime, the
1156
01:02:26.239 --> 01:02:29.400
guy behind him passes him without him realizing and only
1157
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:33.679
ends up finishing first of the night, having having had
1158
01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:36.360
no idea. And I was there with the camera and
1159
01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:39.719
got some really nice shots, not nice for Alexander, but
1160
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:42.119
kind of amazing shots and working in the middle of
1161
01:02:42.159 --> 01:02:44.280
this field on this on his brake caliper as the
1162
01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:48.360
sun setting, So in terms of story and photography, great
1163
01:02:48.440 --> 01:02:53.159
for everyone, literally except Alexander's gutted, but took really well.
1164
01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:57.760
I think changing brake pad was it changing brake pads,
1165
01:02:57.760 --> 01:02:59.480
so like resetting the pistons as well.
1166
01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:04.519
He basically took the pads out and managed to his
1167
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:06.639
business was sticky and managed to jam the business in
1168
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:10.000
should not force them back out whatever he did. Yeah,
1169
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:11.320
so it's completely unrideable.
1170
01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:15.199
Last topic you want to cover it is the future
1171
01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:19.400
of media coverage. So Megan, let's start with you this time.
1172
01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:23.480
How how do you see media coverage of distance racing
1173
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:25.400
evolving in the future.
1174
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:30.480
Yeah, this is a really this is a really big question.
1175
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:35.400
I think it'll probably evolve with the social media and
1176
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:39.119
sharing platforms that are popular at the time. Like I
1177
01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:41.519
feel like there's a lot of a lot of great
1178
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:45.159
photography featured on Instagram and maybe in ten years, Instagram
1179
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:48.199
won't be like the thing that people are going to anymore.
1180
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:53.239
So I feel like it will likely change to where
1181
01:03:53.239 --> 01:03:57.599
people are spending their time on the internet. Unless the
1182
01:03:57.639 --> 01:03:59.800
Internet goes away. Who knows what's going to happen in
1183
01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:04.000
the future. I think that I think I really love
1184
01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:08.679
the audio kind of component. So I love accompanying podcasts
1185
01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.119
and being able to get clips that way as well
1186
01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.039
to kind of compliment some of the visuals that we see.
1187
01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:18.639
And I think the voice notes are really interesting and
1188
01:04:18.679 --> 01:04:22.000
they're a really great way for riders, especially in the lead,
1189
01:04:22.119 --> 01:04:25.880
to kind of to share their experience in a non
1190
01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:29.400
intrusive way. They could send a voice note to you know,
1191
01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:32.320
to align or to the media team or something like
1192
01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:35.119
that at a time that's convenient for them when maybe
1193
01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:38.199
you know, if there's one media vehicle, it's it's difficult
1194
01:04:38.199 --> 01:04:39.960
for them to cover the whole race, as we were
1195
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:44.599
talking about. So I hope that, yeah, audio continues to
1196
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:45.800
play a role.
1197
01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:49.440
And are there any piece of media which have particularly
1198
01:04:49.480 --> 01:04:52.599
inspired you personally and then you've taken that into your.
1199
01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:55.800
Own your own riding, Yeah, for sure. So I got
1200
01:04:55.840 --> 01:05:00.719
into Rondineer cycling in twenty sixteen or auducts. And one
1201
01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:03.000
of the images I saw when I was first like
1202
01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:06.159
kind of like trying to learn and understand what a
1203
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:09.039
brevet was and stuff was a photo of a woman
1204
01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:12.639
on Instagram, maybe halfway through like a six hundred kilometer ride,
1205
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:17.239
and she was just so like beautifully fatigued, but you know,
1206
01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:20.360
strong and riding through I assumed the night and into
1207
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:23.159
the day again, and that image really stuck with me.
1208
01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:26.199
And under the comments, there was a lot of people
1209
01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:28.960
saying like, why would someone do this, Like she looks exhausted,
1210
01:05:29.079 --> 01:05:31.360
this isn't fun, And there was other people kind of
1211
01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:34.519
saying like no, like imagine what she's seen, like a
1212
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:38.639
you know what a great athlete. And I was just
1213
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:41.199
really inspired by this image. And I don't know where
1214
01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:43.000
it was from, or what event it was from, or
1215
01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:45.800
what account it was on, but it definitely it definitely
1216
01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:48.000
stuck and stuck with me, just this image of a
1217
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:53.000
woman kind of yeah, doing something that was obviously really challenging.
1218
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:55.559
But I think I could see the internal satisfaction in
1219
01:05:55.599 --> 01:05:58.760
that photo. I could see that she was, you know,
1220
01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:00.960
she had made the right choices for her, and I
1221
01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:04.320
could imagine myself in her in her shoes and I
1222
01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:07.480
was later that summer I finished my first six hundred.
1223
01:06:07.639 --> 01:06:11.400
So yeah, it's interesting how you mentioned so many different
1224
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:15.800
different formats then and Rob with all your hats on,
1225
01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:19.320
how do you do how do you see this evolving?
1226
01:06:22.119 --> 01:06:24.239
I'm kind of with Megan. I think it's going to
1227
01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:28.320
be driven by by what happens with the way people
1228
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:30.480
are consuming media. But I also think that there's there's
1229
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:33.440
certain ways that it's going to be shaped. That there's
1230
01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:35.679
not lots of money in the sport currently, I don't
1231
01:06:35.679 --> 01:06:38.360
think that's going to change. There's a desire to get
1232
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:43.159
stories and media quickly, so that immediately puts some impediments
1233
01:06:43.159 --> 01:06:46.400
on certain formats like video, because we've seen some great
1234
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:49.039
documentaries come out of Racis, but they come out quite
1235
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:52.239
a long time afterwards, and even short like video reels
1236
01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:54.519
come out, you know, for my liking, a little bit
1237
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:57.679
too slowly. So I think audio is really good kind
1238
01:06:57.679 --> 01:06:59.840
of halfway house that you get a feeling that you're there,
1239
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:03.719
but people can generally produce it pretty quickly, and I
1240
01:07:03.719 --> 01:07:07.400
think good old fashioned photography accompanied by stories from the
1241
01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:10.000
road works really well. So I don't think that's going
1242
01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:14.639
to change massively unless there's some fundamental change, Like Megan said,
1243
01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:18.199
if Instagram suddenly becomes redundant, then maybe we'll look at
1244
01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:21.719
something else. But I think we've We've seen people try
1245
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:25.400
and innovate, and it's often great for the kind of
1246
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:28.360
like promotional side of races that James touched on earlier,
1247
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:32.159
for sponsors with things like drones and video. But as
1248
01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:36.559
a dot watcher, primarily I don't want some slick, thirty
1249
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:41.000
second video reel of a beautiful landscape with no context
1250
01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:42.440
and I don't even know who the rider is. I
1251
01:07:42.440 --> 01:07:44.440
want to know the stories on and I'd rather have
1252
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:48.880
some gritty phone photography that tells me what's going on.
1253
01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:52.320
So I think it depends who's driving it. If sponsors
1254
01:07:52.360 --> 01:07:54.840
are driving it, perhaps we might go in the kind
1255
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:57.239
of more slicker, professional way, But if it's dot watchers
1256
01:07:57.280 --> 01:07:59.119
and riders driving it, and then I think we're much
1257
01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:02.320
more interested in that the feeling of the race, rather
1258
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:04.280
than this kind of overproduced stuff.
1259
01:08:05.159 --> 01:08:11.760
And obviously, as an event promoter, having that media coverage
1260
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:15.800
is a big part of increasing exposure to you for
1261
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:19.479
your event and giving people who maybe interested at a
1262
01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:21.760
taste of what's going on. Have you had any feedback
1263
01:08:21.800 --> 01:08:26.880
from participants of why they've chosen your event, whether that's
1264
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:29.640
due to what they've seen from media coverage in the past.
1265
01:08:31.479 --> 01:08:34.960
I think you have to be really careful with how
1266
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:37.239
you do the coverage from that perspective, because there's always
1267
01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:41.039
this temptation to only show people walking their bikes and
1268
01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:43.199
the really hardest parts, and you have to make sure
1269
01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:45.359
you do put people smiling, because after all, we're doing
1270
01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:50.000
it to fun. And I think that I'm also a
1271
01:08:50.039 --> 01:08:54.520
real proponent of the riders having their own kind of
1272
01:08:55.359 --> 01:08:57.960
ownership over the media, So I always make sure that
1273
01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:00.720
they go away with all the photos and they can
1274
01:09:00.800 --> 01:09:02.960
use that in any way they want that's non commercial,
1275
01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:05.039
so they obviously can't sell them or use them on
1276
01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:07.600
their own businesses, but for personal use, social media whatever,
1277
01:09:07.640 --> 01:09:10.359
they could do what they want, because I think that
1278
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:12.680
in the end, those photos would not have been creative
1279
01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:16.439
without the efforts that they went through. And I think,
1280
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:17.560
you know, you can be as good as you want
1281
01:09:17.560 --> 01:09:20.279
behind a camera, but without the crazy person on a
1282
01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:22.880
bike riding through the night, you know, blowing up the
1283
01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:25.039
disc brakes, you're not going to get that shot. So
1284
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:28.039
I think, yeah, as an organizer, that's the thing I
1285
01:09:28.079 --> 01:09:31.600
feel really quite strongly about, and any photographers I've worked with,
1286
01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:34.279
I've always made it very clear that I will I
1287
01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:37.600
will always expect that that photos can go to riders
1288
01:09:37.600 --> 01:09:39.239
and they can use them as they want for their
1289
01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:42.479
personal social media or blogs, because otherwise I don't just
1290
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:45.159
don't think there's any point. And now I can do
1291
01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:48.079
that because I'm not reliant on sponsorship money and I'm
1292
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:50.920
not a big race and I guess once you get
1293
01:09:50.960 --> 01:09:55.239
to the more competitive end of the sport, then those
1294
01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:57.840
photos have much more value because you've got to sell
1295
01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:00.520
them to sponsors, and sponsors have to have exclusivity of them.
1296
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:03.760
So but yeah, for me, as a more kind of
1297
01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:05.960
I guess grassroots organizer, if you want to call it that,
1298
01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:09.920
like very low level, then it's much more important that
1299
01:10:10.039 --> 01:10:12.720
we kind of retain ownership over the stories and the
1300
01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:15.039
media has riders and has organized.
1301
01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:19.359
Us and James, you must have seen quite a bit
1302
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:22.720
of evolution even in the past ten years in this space.
1303
01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:26.720
What struck you about what's changed over that time and
1304
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:29.039
where do you see where do you see it leading
1305
01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:29.800
here on?
1306
01:10:31.159 --> 01:10:32.880
I mean, I'm going to agree with the other two guys.
1307
01:10:32.920 --> 01:10:35.680
I think we're really kind of stuck with the way
1308
01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:39.119
people consume media, which is, you know, these races they
1309
01:10:39.159 --> 01:10:43.720
succeed through Instagram audiences, and for me, it's not an
1310
01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:48.399
amazing platform really anymore for sharing images or sharing stories.
1311
01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:52.640
Until we see that kind of progress onto something else.
1312
01:10:52.680 --> 01:10:54.199
I think we are a little bit stuck in what
1313
01:10:54.239 --> 01:10:56.439
we can do. You can go and you can you
1314
01:10:56.439 --> 01:10:59.119
can print a book, or you can put stories elsewhere,
1315
01:10:59.119 --> 01:11:01.279
but it's it's so hard to drive an audience to
1316
01:11:01.359 --> 01:11:05.800
that compared to putting stuff up on Instagram and getting
1317
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:09.199
thousands and thousands of eyes on it. So for me
1318
01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:11.039
that that will be the interesting thing is to see
1319
01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:12.600
how that evolves as we go forward.
1320
01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:17.680
And I think a fee of you have mentioned sponsor,
1321
01:11:18.039 --> 01:11:22.479
sponsorship and the money side of it. I'm sure that
1322
01:11:22.479 --> 01:11:25.880
that drives that drives a lot of this in terms
1323
01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:27.840
of having having the media crew there and what they
1324
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:30.239
what means they have to be able to be able
1325
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:30.920
to cover the event.
1326
01:11:32.520 --> 01:11:34.199
Yeah, and I think as well, what you want to
1327
01:11:34.239 --> 01:11:36.359
do with the images, and it's you know, it's are
1328
01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:39.000
you are you producing images for the riders so they
1329
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:41.960
have a picture of themselves, which for me, I always
1330
01:11:42.039 --> 01:11:44.720
worry drives it a little bit more towards kind of
1331
01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:48.000
sportive style photography. Are you trying to tell these stories?
1332
01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:49.000
You know?
1333
01:11:49.119 --> 01:11:51.479
Are you trying to make individually strong images? I think
1334
01:11:52.279 --> 01:11:54.479
I think what's important is that each race chooses to
1335
01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:56.119
do its own thing, because I think at the moment,
1336
01:11:56.199 --> 01:11:59.880
everyone's driving towards quite a similar thing, and I'd like
1337
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:02.359
to see more racers kind of saying, do you know what,
1338
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:04.279
We're not going to cover the front of the race
1339
01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:08.239
at all. You know, we're just going to say we're
1340
01:12:08.239 --> 01:12:10.520
not going to even touch it. We're going to go
1341
01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:12.159
for this part of it. We're going to focus on
1342
01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:15.159
these kind of stories. I think there could be some
1343
01:12:15.159 --> 01:12:18.680
really interesting stuff in that kind of race organizers choosing
1344
01:12:19.880 --> 01:12:22.079
individual parts to kind of cover into show.
1345
01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:25.000
Sorry, just realized there was one thing I had in
1346
01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:26.720
my notes that we didn't touch upon, and we really
1347
01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:28.960
should in that perspective, which is the Accursed Race. I
1348
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:31.119
don't know if you guys saw the coverage of that,
1349
01:12:31.159 --> 01:12:33.640
but that's really relevant to that point of doing something
1350
01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:37.479
totally different, and they I think they only interacted. They
1351
01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:40.960
only made riders aware of their presence in towns and
1352
01:12:41.079 --> 01:12:44.239
anywhere where it was off road. They made they asked
1353
01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:47.079
the photographers to hide and shoot through telephoto lenses and
1354
01:12:47.119 --> 01:12:48.600
the photography is great, And I thought this was a
1355
01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:51.399
really cool idea, But it goes back to what James
1356
01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:54.039
is saying about your own approach. But I don't think
1357
01:12:54.039 --> 01:12:54.920
every race could do that.
1358
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:56.079
I was.
1359
01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:59.079
I was aware of something similar at GP Duro in
1360
01:12:59.119 --> 01:13:02.960
this many potentially comes back to the questions earlier of
1361
01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:09.279
how riders interacting with photographers that the photographers photographers wouldn't
1362
01:13:09.439 --> 01:13:13.079
They would be visible, but they wouldn't interact interact with
1363
01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:14.159
the riders directly.
1364
01:13:15.039 --> 01:13:16.600
Oh, I think you can go further and just say
1365
01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:19.760
that that you don't let your photographers speak at all,
1366
01:13:19.760 --> 01:13:23.239
because I think riders often are in a situation where
1367
01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:26.119
they're desperate for the chat. So yeah, I mean, I
1368
01:13:26.199 --> 01:13:29.000
kind of understand the kind of concept of hiding photographers,
1369
01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:32.560
But then I'm kind of if I spot someone in
1370
01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:35.680
the difference in the distance hiding in a bush, is
1371
01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:39.920
that more distracting than someone being really obvious but not
1372
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:44.079
interacting with me? Is that kind of balance of things?
1373
01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:47.039
Yeah, I think that's rather strange.
1374
01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:48.720
But I think it'd be quite fun to just wear
1375
01:13:48.760 --> 01:13:50.920
camouflage and just really take it quite seriously at the
1376
01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:56.079
same time, wouldn't you feel mean, though, James, wouldn't you
1377
01:13:56.079 --> 01:13:59.720
feel mean if you saw someone who was clearly needing
1378
01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:03.319
common station and you you just couldn't say anything?
1379
01:14:03.319 --> 01:14:07.119
Would wouldn't that be morally wrong for you?
1380
01:14:08.319 --> 01:14:12.880
I kind of I do that sometimes because okay, fair enough,
1381
01:14:14.039 --> 01:14:18.560
because there's you know, if someone's going through something and
1382
01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:21.960
in an ideal world, I wouldn't be there and they'd
1383
01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:23.600
just still be going through it, and I want to
1384
01:14:23.680 --> 01:14:26.359
kind of capture an image of something.
1385
01:14:26.920 --> 01:14:27.239
Hm hm.
1386
01:14:28.359 --> 01:14:32.840
You know, there's Look, there's absolutely situations where you you
1387
01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:35.119
help someone or you talk to someone, or you know,
1388
01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:38.840
the minute that someone needs you know, you're like, oh,
1389
01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:41.479
hang on, do I need to check that you're okay?
1390
01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:43.039
Like that crosses a line.
1391
01:14:43.079 --> 01:14:46.279
But in the general first world problems of I entered
1392
01:14:46.319 --> 01:14:48.560
a really long bike race and I'm now a bit tired.
1393
01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:53.760
I'm not feeling too bad about depriving them of my conversation.
1394
01:14:55.600 --> 01:15:00.159
There was a time when Rob passed me in the
1395
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:03.640
but now two years ago, and I was on the
1396
01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:06.600
floor and I just couldn't get my valve. You know,
1397
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:10.000
you're like a tubeless valve. I couldn't unscrew it because
1398
01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:12.319
I had a really bad puncture. For the life of me,
1399
01:15:12.359 --> 01:15:13.720
I just couldn't get it. I was there for like
1400
01:15:13.720 --> 01:15:16.479
an hour and then Rob just comes really slowly passed,
1401
01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:19.960
really slowly passed and just says sorry, can't help you,
1402
01:15:20.079 --> 01:15:22.199
and then carried on. At this time I had midges
1403
01:15:22.239 --> 01:15:25.159
on my eyelids.
1404
01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:26.439
It was a very sad time.
1405
01:15:26.479 --> 01:15:28.319
But yeah, it's it's just the nature of things. I
1406
01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:29.720
guess you just have to get on with it and
1407
01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:33.640
try and try and use your initiative and get through things.
1408
01:15:33.680 --> 01:15:36.279
And it is worthwhile because then when you do overcome
1409
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:38.640
things and you get the midges off your eyelids, it
1410
01:15:39.279 --> 01:15:40.880
becomes clear you.
1411
01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:43.800
Really highlights on your mechanical skills today.
1412
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:45.000
Now, Oh, it was terrible.
1413
01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:48.079
It was like you couldn't get it was like a
1414
01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:51.279
round profile so that if you couldn't unscrew it. I
1415
01:15:51.319 --> 01:15:53.800
was trying to get my alankey and wedge it into
1416
01:15:53.880 --> 01:15:57.079
one of the things, but you just couldn't get a
1417
01:15:57.079 --> 01:16:02.039
grasp on it. I ended up hammering my cleat on
1418
01:16:02.079 --> 01:16:03.399
it and it ended up loosening.
1419
01:16:04.359 --> 01:16:06.520
We've got a miss up of the mark cud as well.
1420
01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:11.359
Then, yeah, absolutely, I still don't feel bad, that's fine.
1421
01:16:11.119 --> 01:16:11.680
That's okay.
1422
01:16:14.079 --> 01:16:18.159
When I was reading the dot watch article, there was
1423
01:16:18.279 --> 01:16:20.680
a question essentially that said, do you respect.
1424
01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:21.520
The privacy of riders?
1425
01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:23.880
And your kind of take on it was, well, if
1426
01:16:23.920 --> 01:16:26.880
you're kind of part of the ride, then you're kind
1427
01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:28.239
of in the limelight and you have to kind of
1428
01:16:28.279 --> 01:16:30.800
accept that you're open to these kind of things. I
1429
01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:32.560
was quite interested on that take because I kind of
1430
01:16:32.600 --> 01:16:35.520
agree with it, but I do kind of understand that,
1431
01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:38.239
like maybe it's a racer, you might not want James
1432
01:16:38.239 --> 01:16:41.399
to film that process. So I guess where does the
1433
01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:44.399
line cross. Is it just between you two guys.
1434
01:16:44.199 --> 01:16:47.880
Or when I follow cyclists into toilets I follow male
1435
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:49.000
cyclist into toilets?
1436
01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:50.359
Good?
1437
01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:52.680
And that does mean that you miss out a section
1438
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:54.560
of the race and a section of the people, and
1439
01:16:55.399 --> 01:16:57.279
you know, like there's that kind of thing of like,
1440
01:16:57.319 --> 01:16:59.000
well then you only show one bit of it, And
1441
01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:02.279
actually I think that is I think it's hugely important
1442
01:17:02.319 --> 01:17:04.840
to show that people just get on and do these things,
1443
01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:07.880
and how you deal with and how you cope with races.
1444
01:17:08.159 --> 01:17:09.680
I mean, if you go on my website, there's a
1445
01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:13.319
picture of Lee Craigie sitting in a river having a
1446
01:17:13.479 --> 01:17:17.279
wash and we had a long conversation with the whole
1447
01:17:17.319 --> 01:17:19.720
of the events Syndica after taking that picture of how
1448
01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:21.960
you use it, whether you can use it, like, but
1449
01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:25.960
it feels like an important thing to show, so in
1450
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:27.840
a way, it's kind of like if you don't share
1451
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:30.840
those things, are you actually are you doing a disservice
1452
01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:31.560
to your audience.
1453
01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:37.960
I think for me, like one of the important things
1454
01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:40.479
is just having information in the pre brief for the
1455
01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:43.239
pre communication so that you know what to expect. And
1456
01:17:43.279 --> 01:17:46.079
I think that that allows the race organizers to kind
1457
01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:48.520
of like I don't I'm not sure if they want
1458
01:17:48.520 --> 01:17:50.319
to speak to what kind of photography they're going to
1459
01:17:50.359 --> 01:17:53.119
have or or you know, mention that you're not going
1460
01:17:53.159 --> 01:17:55.119
to encounter anybody out in this section of the course
1461
01:17:55.199 --> 01:17:59.600
or whatever. But yeah, I think it's a chance for
1462
01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:01.760
people to be all on the same page and for
1463
01:18:01.760 --> 01:18:04.000
folks to know that, you know, they could be photographed anywhere,
1464
01:18:04.039 --> 01:18:05.800
and as long as they know that, then I guess
1465
01:18:05.800 --> 01:18:09.720
that's okay. But I think also giving people, you know,
1466
01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:13.039
those little reminders that you know, the media crew is
1467
01:18:13.880 --> 01:18:16.640
not a support team, like if you're having problems, do
1468
01:18:16.720 --> 01:18:20.399
not go to them as therapists or something like that, right,
1469
01:18:20.479 --> 01:18:23.279
And I think these sound like very obvious reminders to me.
1470
01:18:23.439 --> 01:18:26.319
But often when I do events, there are you know,
1471
01:18:26.439 --> 01:18:29.640
lots of new racers. I'm not going to point fingers,
1472
01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:32.479
but I'm looking at you gravel grinders that are drafting
1473
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:34.520
and doing all sorts of things that I don't feel
1474
01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:36.600
are appropriate, and I think it's just because of a
1475
01:18:36.680 --> 01:18:40.239
lack of knowledge, right. So I think that that's where
1476
01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:45.640
the pre brief and the writer communication stuff becomes really important.
1477
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:48.319
And because James was saying, like, you know, we don't
1478
01:18:48.359 --> 01:18:51.000
necessarily want the media crews and all the teams or
1479
01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:54.159
on the races to be exactly the same. You know,
1480
01:18:54.279 --> 01:18:57.479
it's exciting to have different types of coverage. So I
1481
01:18:57.520 --> 01:19:00.359
think allowing those differences to maybe be expressed a little
1482
01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:03.279
bit beforehand to get everybody on to the same page
1483
01:19:03.319 --> 01:19:06.039
can be useful. If you every want to follow me
1484
01:19:06.039 --> 01:19:10.239
into a bathroom, James, just let me know. I feel
1485
01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:12.039
like we know each other now, I'll say yes.
1486
01:19:12.520 --> 01:19:15.000
I also wanted to just say that we should touch
1487
01:19:15.079 --> 01:19:18.800
on representation really, because if we're talking about covering events,
1488
01:19:18.840 --> 01:19:20.960
we can say it's you know, organized as progative on
1489
01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:23.119
how they cover it. But if you do just cover
1490
01:19:23.199 --> 01:19:26.600
the pointy end, you're taking a subsection of an already
1491
01:19:26.640 --> 01:19:30.680
not very diverse field. And you know, sitting here for
1492
01:19:30.880 --> 01:19:33.399
white men and a white woman. I mean, firstly, we've
1493
01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:36.199
got the proportion of entrance covered there, right, haven't we?
1494
01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:39.039
But you know, I think we do have to be
1495
01:19:39.039 --> 01:19:41.319
careful with that. And you've got to be conscious of
1496
01:19:41.319 --> 01:19:44.119
the fact that the minute you start slimming down your coverage,
1497
01:19:44.560 --> 01:19:47.680
you are going to make and already not very diverse
1498
01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:51.039
sport even less diverse. Because we all know the fastest
1499
01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:56.159
riders are mostly quite experienced, sort of white men in
1500
01:19:56.239 --> 01:19:59.199
age thirty and forty. Mostly it's that kind of it's
1501
01:19:59.199 --> 01:20:03.159
that kind of demograph, and there were obviously wonderful anomalies
1502
01:20:03.279 --> 01:20:05.920
amongst that, and it would be great if we had
1503
01:20:05.960 --> 01:20:07.199
more and more and more and it was a much
1504
01:20:07.199 --> 01:20:09.479
more diverse sport. But it has got to start with
1505
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:12.920
people seeing people who look like them, and I think
1506
01:20:12.960 --> 01:20:15.840
we should be really conscious of that as organizers that
1507
01:20:16.960 --> 01:20:19.560
you don't you don't become tokenistic, but you also have
1508
01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:22.239
to make sure that you're you're showing that you know
1509
01:20:22.479 --> 01:20:24.800
the full spectrum of the field and encourage people from
1510
01:20:25.039 --> 01:20:28.399
different backgrounds who wouldn't necessarily always be drawn to our
1511
01:20:28.399 --> 01:20:31.199
sport to apply and to enter and then start with
1512
01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.840
like Megan was saying about starting with your first breve
1513
01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:37.640
or something like that, and that's a route into our sport,
1514
01:20:37.720 --> 01:20:38.039
isn't it.
1515
01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:40.039
That's a nice thing to end on.
1516
01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:42.720
That's all we've got time for today, folks, so thank
1517
01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:44.800
you very much for tuning in. I just want to
1518
01:20:44.840 --> 01:20:47.920
thank James, Rob and Meghan for being with us today.
1519
01:20:47.960 --> 01:20:48.680
Thank you very.
1520
01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:57.439
Much, pleasure again, thank you, and thank you to everyone
1521
01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:00.960
that came on to the roundtable. That was fantastic. I
1522
01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:03.199
think we've all got our favorite quotes from that, but
1523
01:21:03.239 --> 01:21:09.000
my main one was Megan offering James to follow her
1524
01:21:09.079 --> 01:21:13.039
into the toilet to take photos, thus giving us a
1525
01:21:13.239 --> 01:21:16.560
equal coverage of these ultradistance events.
1526
01:21:16.760 --> 01:21:18.680
Keep eyes in the back of your heads when James
1527
01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:23.479
is the covering media for your event, I certainly would.
1528
01:21:25.319 --> 01:21:25.399
So.
1529
01:21:26.119 --> 01:21:29.039
Moving on to the Best of Bikes of because every
1530
01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:32.239
good audio podcast needs a visual lead feature. For those
1531
01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:34.680
of you who don't know, dot Watcher dot CC regularly
1532
01:21:34.720 --> 01:21:38.680
showcase riders, bikes, and equipment choices for races across the world.
1533
01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:40.960
Take a look at their rides, their kit choices, and
1534
01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:44.239
even their favorite items. Each month, we will be taking
1535
01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:46.560
in turns to choose one recent bike and set up
1536
01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:48.880
from a recent bikes Off best of article on the
1537
01:21:48.920 --> 01:21:49.880
dot Watcher website.
1538
01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:54.079
This month is Sam. Can you tell us about your choice?
1539
01:21:54.399 --> 01:21:58.239
Well, I've gone back to the Racerond Rwanda and I've
1540
01:21:58.279 --> 01:22:03.880
picked out the steed which vince Vincent van Deer Mortal Road.
1541
01:22:04.119 --> 01:22:09.039
It's a it's a Kenyon Grail. And what I was well,
1542
01:22:09.399 --> 01:22:12.680
the coloring on the on the frame goes from black
1543
01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:15.399
to a sort of beige color, and he's got this
1544
01:22:16.159 --> 01:22:19.920
frame bag which matches perfectly with where the lines are
1545
01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:23.720
in the transition between these colors. So the first glance,
1546
01:22:23.720 --> 01:22:26.119
it looks like it's sort of like a black box
1547
01:22:26.159 --> 01:22:28.960
at the front of his bike. It's yeah, it just
1548
01:22:29.399 --> 01:22:32.039
got my I think it's also because he's leaning well,
1549
01:22:32.119 --> 01:22:34.039
I think he's leaning his bike. Maybe he's leaning his
1550
01:22:34.079 --> 01:22:36.920
bike on that car behind hibe's scratched it. I'm sure
1551
01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:40.199
they'll be delighted in the owner of that Volkswagen. You're
1552
01:22:40.239 --> 01:22:43.680
gone for a very clean model this year. Yeah, I
1553
01:22:44.279 --> 01:22:48.199
do like a sort of clean setup where where it's
1554
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:52.359
things are matching tan side walls. They yeah, I think
1555
01:22:52.800 --> 01:22:55.560
they always they always catch my eyes. So yeah, it
1556
01:22:55.560 --> 01:23:00.760
looks ready to get all dirty and mucky in Neuroandon countryside.
1557
01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:03.159
It's weird because you get your bike so set up,
1558
01:23:03.159 --> 01:23:05.279
you've got all the bags and everything, but everything just
1559
01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:07.840
gets so mucky by the end of it that the
1560
01:23:07.840 --> 01:23:09.439
bag that you loved at the start of the race
1561
01:23:09.520 --> 01:23:11.720
is just a shadow of the bag that you liked
1562
01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:14.159
on the start of the race because it's just ruined
1563
01:23:14.239 --> 01:23:14.720
on the end of.
1564
01:23:14.720 --> 01:23:18.279
It inside and outside as well with the exact and
1565
01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:19.079
with the.
1566
01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:21.840
Food and the sticky oh yeah, you can never get
1567
01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:22.640
the stick out, can you.
1568
01:23:22.760 --> 01:23:25.520
It's just it's sticky. And then that's it. Still it's done.
1569
01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:29.199
But one thing, one thing I didn't approve was the
1570
01:23:29.720 --> 01:23:33.399
it's tie with only thirty five to thirty nine minimeters
1571
01:23:33.479 --> 01:23:37.239
when we all know bigger is better.
1572
01:23:37.359 --> 01:23:41.600
So that's almost thin for a road bike nowadays. Yeah,
1573
01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:43.800
and make sure you check out the Bikes of feature
1574
01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:46.720
on dot Watcher dot CC for this setup and also
1575
01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:49.399
many more including the upcoming races.
1576
01:23:49.840 --> 01:23:53.039
And just reminder that if you've got anything to submit
1577
01:23:53.199 --> 01:23:55.399
for any of our features and get in touch by
1578
01:23:55.439 --> 01:24:01.520
Instagram at dot COM's pod or dot COM's podt gmail dot.
1579
01:24:01.239 --> 01:24:04.079
Com and a reminder to check out all the commentaries
1580
01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:06.960
on dot watch your website and also any kind of
1581
01:24:06.960 --> 01:24:11.640
dot watch articles and all the other features ultra distance related.
1582
01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:14.800
And it's a goodbye from us. We will be back
1583
01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:17.239
next month for some more dot coms.
1584
01:24:17.479 --> 01:24:19.760
Good luck, good luck, and Dale Savidley.
1585
01:24:19.640 --> 01:24:22.239
Thank you very much. I think I shall need it.
1586
01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:25.039
You know what, I might actually send you some voice
1587
01:24:25.039 --> 01:24:27.920
clips for when I'm in the box, when I'm at
1588
01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:30.800
my lowest, just to really get the grit.
1589
01:24:30.960 --> 01:24:33.640
Okay, we've got mishappens a month sorted for next month earlier.
1590
01:24:33.840 --> 01:24:36.359
Yeah, perfect, all right, see you soon.
1591
01:24:36.439 --> 01:24:51.560
See