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Welcome to another episode of Cyber Hack Cast.
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I'm joined by my BBFF, Michael Farnum.
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So how are you, Michael?
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I'm good, Phil.
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John, do you know what that stands for?
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I don't.
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Go ahead and tell him.
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It stands for Bald Best Friend Forever.
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So Sam was his BFF.
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So I'm his BBFF.
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Nice.
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That's awesome.
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So also we got joining today John Barrow, co-founder and managing partner at Launch Point Collective.
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How are you doing, John?
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Doing good.
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Glad to be here.
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So did you get to make it out to Black Hat?
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I did.
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Yeah.
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I was there for a long time.
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I'm actually originally from Las Vegas.
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So I was actually in Vegas for two weeks.
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Not on this trip for two weeks.
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Let me clarify.
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I was there for five days, which was probably more than I should have been, but yes, I survived.
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So was it a good conference for you?
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Yeah, it was great.
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Full transparency.
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I didn't go to the actual hall because I get more value out of actually having one-on-one conversations with folks, but spoke to a lot of technologies.
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I mean, it's amazing how much is out there, the speed of technology being built and developed.
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It's incredible.
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Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
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A lot of interesting conversations go on outside of the business hall.
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I had a meeting with some a couple guys that are founders of a Japanese startup that has an automated AI-enabled pen testing tool that I got to check out.
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So it was an interesting conference and interesting how many people are trying to automate pen testing.
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Because I remember a few years back, you had Pintera Horizon 3, and then Ridge Security was newer onto the scene, or I found out about them later on.
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But now it's amazing how many people are doing autonomous or AI automated pen testing.
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Yeah, we have one at my organization as well that we're using Novi.
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Cool.
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I'll have to check that one out.
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It's been kind of interesting to see so more, so many more people are coming on the scene.
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I've seen some products that look pretty promising and some of them not so much, but it's kind of kind of interesting how so many people are trying to do that.
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So how is Blackout for you, Michael?
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It was really good, very productive.
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I did go on the floor.
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The cool thing about having a media brand is I can get a media badge to pay for anything.
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And press badge gets you everywhere, man.
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You can just run around and do you know that, Phil?
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You got one too.
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But you can just run around and visit everywhere you want to visit.
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So it's actually really cool.
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Very productive.
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Did a whole roll-up post on everybody that I talked to because I went to I saw you there too, besides Las Vegas, and then went over to Black Hat, didn't do DEF CON, but but yeah, great, bunch of great conversations, great community conversations, and new vendor conversations.
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Uh talked to John Strand.
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My brain just locked.
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He's gonna shoot me.
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What's the name of this company, Bill?
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Good gracious.
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Black Hills.
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Cybersecurity.
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Good gracious.
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Well, and does Wild West confess.
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Sorry, John, if you're watching.
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So I'd actually never met him face to face, so that was a lot of fun.
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Did an interview with him and did an interview with White Knight Labs and just a bunch of different people.
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So I had a great time.
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Do wish I'd have gone to DEF CON, even though I was worn out by the end of that time.
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So how about for you, Phil?
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It was good, and I really liked that piece of content you put out.
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I really liked the way you had the videos embedded in it.
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Because typically when someone does a piece like that, you just see just the written content.
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So I like the way you included the video with that too.
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It made it even better.
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So yeah, it was a great piece of content.
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Also, too, you spoke with the CEO of Suzu Labs where I work.
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Yep.
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So that was that was cool.
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Okay, here's my story.
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I think I told you about that.
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So when I was in the army, I was I'm Desert Shill Desert Storm vet.
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So I went in July of 90s, Saddam invaded in August of 90s.
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So I got to celebrate New Year's on the plane going over to the going over to Mid Middle East.
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And when I was in, there were still vets that were, you know, lifetime serving vet, you know, had a whole career from Vietnam.
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And you know, we used to look at them with all, man, like these are the OGs, right?
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Oh so I'm talking to your CISO or your CEO, and I can't remember the other guy's name that was there.
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I was talking to him.
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And they were both vets who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan, you know, in the more recent conflicts.
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And when I told them I was a Desert Shill Desert Storm, they were looking at me like I used to look at those Vietnam vets.
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And I'm like, dude, I am not old enough.
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And then I started thinking about it.
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I was like, when I was in the army, it was Vietnam was closer to when I was 90 to 92 than Desert Shill Desert Storm is to now.
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And it's like, how does this even work?
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Like my brain could not function.
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I like I glitched for a little bit.
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So yeah, it's like when you hear 90s music called being called classic music.
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Oh, that drives me crazy.
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It was bad enough when 80s music got on there, like Van Halen and stuff, and then yeah, yeah.
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See, that's my story about your CEO, him like, oh, they were both like, whoa, you were a dozen show, does a star.
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I was like, you need to stop that right now.
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So anyway.
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So yeah, to get into our segment about Cyber Hatcon.
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We've if you enjoyed Cyber HatCon, then CyberSetCon is coming up in September on the 15th and 16th.
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And we have a Cyber HatCon track.
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So if you really enjoy that type of content, we'll have a track there as well as some really cool villages, if you wouldn't mind sharing about the villages.
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Yeah, we we're going all out on villages this year.
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So we have got uh Grayson's Village, is what it'll always be named.
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We have got our normal capture the flag.
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So Hutch is doing that for us as usual.
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He's our guy that does all of our CTFs now.
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We've got an OSINT village, which we did at Cyber HatCon as well.
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Really excited about bringing that back.
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We've got a Cyber Brick Village, so we can't call it the L-E-G something video or village, so we have to call it Brick Village, but we'll have some fun with that.
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We've got lockpicking as normal, ham radio, which we've done for the last couple of years, which was all also at CyberHackCon.
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Then CyberCog Labs, yeah, Dr.
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Dustin Sachs is putting on the behavioral cyber risk village, which should be fun.
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So people can just spend their whole time at the village this time.
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Then we've got what we originally did at CyberHackcon.
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We're bringing back the CyberHackCon AI Village.
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That's actually all those ones I mentioned before are all in the vendor hall.
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So we've got two that are spun off into a different area, and that's the AI Village.
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So in the Cyber HackCon area, in near the main hall will be the AI Village, and that one's going to be a lot of fun.
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That's got TMP workshop, HTB versus a swarm, vulnerable LLM workshop with it, SaaS AI Swarm workshop, like all these cool little workshops with it.
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And then Zage Security is sponsoring in Ring 310C over by the OTSec track, which is our OTSec con within a con.
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But we've got the OT Village in there.
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So that we've got Kevin Kumpf is coming in there with Chasm and is going to put a lot of stuff on.
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There's going to be some neat.
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I can't, I don't want to spoil it yet, but there's going to be a release that they're doing at Chasm from some really cool stuff that people will be able to use.
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Again, I don't want to spoil it yet because he wants to do that announcement at the show.
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But it's got to be worth it if you're an OT person and want to look at some really deep tech on the OT side to come in there.
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And I think Orin is bringing something as well.
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Oren Hatch is bringing something in there as well.
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So some hardware stuff.
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So that one's going to be a lot of fun.
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It's got ICS Village, OT Simulation Village, and OT hacking kit all in there.
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I know there was a lot of information, but if you go, we'll put it in the show notes.
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But if you go to cybersetcon.com/slash villages, you'll get all that information and you'll be able to see what all we've got.
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So it's going to be a lot of fun.
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Yeah, so it's pretty amazing how the villages evolved.
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And just to comment on the AI village, that was like we had four tracks at Cyber HackCon, but that was almost like a fifth track.
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All the content that they had there and the hands-on activities.
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Yeah, it was really well done.
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They came to us with that and they put that together.
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And I was like, yeah, let's me and Phil both.
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We're like, please.
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This sounds like a lot of fun.
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So it was really well done.
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I'm excited about all of them.
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But speaking of Cyber Hackcon, we've also got some kind of news, right, Phil?
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Yeah, yep.
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So I guess we've got a location and just waiting to sign the contract to firm it up and some tentative dates.
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So we should be announcing that maybe on the next episode.
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Yep.
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Excited about getting that together.
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That's been a little bit of a tas to get all that lined up, but we're finally there.
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So get all that finalized and we'll be able to tell everybody the dates.
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We will be back, but it will be spring of 2027.
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Second one.
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Bring your friends, bring your family.
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Pretty excited about it.
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It was a good time this year, and really want to have time to really get the message out, mark it, and hype up the next one.
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Yep.
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I agree.
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We are going to now talk to Mr.
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Barrow.
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John Barrow.
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So we announced you as or introduced you as co-founder and managing partner at Launch Point Collective, but you also have another job, John.
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What else do you?
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I do.
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Yeah, a big job, actually.
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Yeah.
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I'm the seaside uh JB Point Xer and Co., which were the parent of nine manufacturing companies.
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I hesitate because we've gone through a few different MA, MA situations.
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I believe it's nine now.
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But uh yeah, we manufacture truck bodies, which is our bread and butter for like major fleets, UPS, FedEx, Penskey, ATT, Ryder.
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And we have a few other, we do one of our other big ones is it's engineered foam packaging, where basically any body part, car part, anything that needs to be transported and protected and climate controlled.
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Like think like during the COVID, like the vaccines had to be shipped at a certain temperature and all that.
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We were a big leader in that space.
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But yeah, it's been interesting building out that program.
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I've been there right at four years now, which is incredible.
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I mean, time's flying, but it was uh pretty exciting for me.
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It was a greenfield.
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There was no program, no budget, no policies, no team.
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It was exciting to be able to build that up from the ground up.
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And it ties into what we're talking about here is we over the years have grown the team, but also gotten to the point where we have a very lean team.
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That's just the way the company operates.
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All the teams are very lean.
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And so um I have always tried to be innovative and creative with my programs and how we combat the speed of volume of attacks and threats and things like that.
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So I basically out of necessity have become an early adopter leader of startup technology.
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50% of my program is startups, which I know a lot of my peers think is crazy.
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And they when I mention to them some of the stuff that we've invested in that we're utilizing, even like talking about identic AI SOC or AI autonomous pen testing and things like that.
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About a year ago, year and a half ago, people thought I was crazy.
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And why would you do that?
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How do you trust that?
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And then now those same folks are coming back.
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Like, hey, can you tell me more about that?
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Obviously, like I said, the speed and volume of attacks and speed of exploitation with the AI frontier models and everything.
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I don't think we have a choice anymore.
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You have to embrace startups, be able to keep up.
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But but yeah, so a quick background on me, I'm assuming that's the next step.
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Is it's my background, I was Army as well, like Michael.
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I was Army Intel.
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I worked for NSA, I was in the DC area for about 10 years, then made a transition over to cyber.
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I'm I mentioned before, I'm grew up in Las Vegas.
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I was at Caesars for many years, then moved to Houston, ran the cyber program at Texas Children's Hospital for a few years, and then moved over to JB Poindexter.
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But yeah, kind of where the reason I have the two hats that I have specifically around Launchpoint Collective is as a CISO, we get invited to stuff all the time, right?
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All these events and innovation showcases and things.
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And what happens is, you know, a majority of these we get invited to, it's a VC, they bring all their port co companies.
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There's like 10 of them.
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It's like speed dating.
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Each of them gets five minutes.
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Then, like, hey, are you interested?
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And you're like, I don't even know what the technology is yet.
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But so there's a problem there.
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And then of the 10 that are presented, there might be two that I'm actually interested in, right?
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The other eight are kind of a waste of time.
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I'm on that side.
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And on the other side in the audience, 95% of the people that are there are there for free food and a drink.
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They don't care about the technology, right?
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And so my partner, David Sledge, and I, over the years, we'll be at some of these events.
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And so we started talking.
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We're like, there's a problem here.
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There's a lot of amazing technology coming out that people need to be aware of, but there's so much noise.
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Like, how do you cut through that noise?
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And how do you get the right leaders, the right decision makers in the same room as those brilliant technologies, the right startups, so that way we can help streamline that innovation pipeline and really get the right tech in the hands of these companies so they can combat this, you know, this speed of exploitation and threats, right?
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And so that's how we formed Launchpoint Collective, is we're trying to help solve that problem, right?
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So we're doing second-level vetting on the startup side.
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We're looking at a ton of startups and really figuring out which ones based on the team and their pedigree, and are they former founders and what what technology are they building?
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And is it something that we really think is going to make an impact that people really need to know about?
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And then finding early adopter leaders that are aligned with their ICP and their target market and getting them together, right?
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And so with that, I know at CybersecCon last year there were some startups there, and this isn't a knock on Michael or the team or anything, but I don't know if it was publicized that big, right?
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Like I it wasn't, yeah.
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That wasn't it wasn't done.
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It was our first year, and we brought it in a little bit last minute.
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I yeah, a couple of months last minute, if you will.
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Right.
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And so I met with so I met with Michael, I don't know, it might have been a year ago now, eight months ago at least, or something.
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Yeah.
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We had lunch, and I was like, here's what I want to do.
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:34.879
If you're okay with this, right?
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:35.759
Here's what I want to do.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:43.679
I want to bring 20 to 30 of the top startups in the world to CybersecCon and really make that a key highlight of the conference.
00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:49.360
Because I think a lot of these startups, most of them have never been to Texas, first of all.
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.039
Second of all, a lot of people skim over Houston in general.
00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.840
They might go to Austin here and there because it's known as the tech city.
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.639
Some of them go to Dallas, but most of them bypass Houston.
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:05.279
Because I think the mindset I've actually heard from VC managing partners as well as startups is like Houston's a waste of time.
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:06.639
There's no early adopters there.
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.639
Everyone's old school, they move very slow.
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:09.840
And I'm like, well, that's not true.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.600
And in some cases, yes, but in most cases, there are actually a lot of early adopters.
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.679
You just need to know who they are, right?
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:29.120
So we have partnered with Michael and his team, and we are bringing, as of today, there's 21 uh startups that we're bringing, and there's others that we're actually actively talking to to bring as well.
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.519
And they're all participating in different capacities.
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:39.279
Some have booths, some are just coming for events, some are presenting, some are in the final launch pad competition, which is exciting.
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:44.320
Three of the five finalists are startups that we brought, which we're super excited about.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:52.639
And uh I just want to name the ones that we currently have coming, just so people are aware of all these amazing uh companies that are coming.
00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:17.039
We have Ent, A Zome, Astellia, Vision Height, Novi, Dash, Above, Profit AI, Mate, Zero Networks, Bloom, Glow, Unfold, Beacon, Centra, Mind, Clutch, Native, App Viewx, Opti, and Clyro.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:24.240
And these are, I mean, as Michael knows, it's it's a different mindset, right?
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:33.360
Like the, I mean, they're not all Israeli startups, a majority are, but it's been exciting bringing these these startups, and we're super excited about it.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.360
But there's a lot of work that goes into that, right?
00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:42.399
I mean, a lot of these folks are traveling from Tel Aviv, and there's a lot of you know details and a lot of missing things.
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:48.000
It's kind of been hurt, like hurting cats a little bit, but the logistics are yeah, the logistics are are heavy.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:49.279
Yeah, it definitely is.
00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:53.200
But we're we're fired up and they're all super excited as well.
00:16:53.440 --> 00:17:11.119
Um, and it other than just bringing them to the conference alone to show them how amazing CybersecCon is and the real value of it, but we're also we have other events around the the conference as well, because again, these people, a lot of these people are traveling internationally to be here.
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.240
So we really want to provide the most value possible to them.
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:20.160
So we have our pre-conference kickoff party the night before, that Monday, at the rustic uptown.
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:26.000
There's gonna be armadillo racing, Texas themed cocktails and drinks, live music, cowboy hat station.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.519
It's gonna be a fun time.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.839
We have some lunches and dinners, and we also have an Astros suite that Wednesday.
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.400
But anyway, we're super fired up about it.
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:39.279
And and I want to give kudos to Michael and his team because they've been a fantastic partner.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.039
It's been great working with them.
00:17:41.279 --> 00:18:04.319
And I really think that this is maybe not no longer, but a hidden gem, right, in the country is you go to Black Hat and you go to RSA, they're great conferences and they are valuable, but let's be honest, like it's it's overboard, it's sensory overload, you know, and it's like mostly sales, you know, and it's like as a CISO, it's like you come out of it and you're like, what the hell just happened?
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:17.839
You know, in that article that I was talking about earlier, I did something where Andy Ellis and I were walking the floor because he goes through Andy grades, like he literally goes through every single booth and does like you know what they do and does it line.
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:19.599
It's amazing how much work incredible.
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:27.440
And I was walking the floor with him for just a little bit with my little camera, and I was just like, oh my gosh, it's like I don't need that much B-roll film, man.
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:28.799
It's just like crazy.
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.200
Yeah, and I massively appreciate all his words.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:39.279
I'm just super, super excited about what we're doing together and looking forward forward for to it for years.
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:49.039
Like that lunch, I actually came to you to talk to you about some other stuff, and you brought that up, and I'm I'm like massively excited for you to do that.
00:18:49.279 --> 00:19:02.559
The partnership's gonna be great, going on for a long time, but I kind of want to dig in on the the technical side from like I you know, CISOs don't always dig down deep into the weeds.
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:23.279
What do your folks you probably got a good relationship with them and they know how this works, but I've heard a lot of practitioners be like, and I actually I've said this before too when I wasn't you know leading a team, like well, my CISO just brought me something and said I need to implement this damn thing.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:36.640
And how did how do you how do you talk to them like that practitioner of like you know, get them get them to do a good buy-in on this, how to get them invested in it?
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:48.400
And what do you say to those CISOs that have challenges that want to get deeper in the weeds, but can't, so they let their people obviously do it, and then their people like Goodwin will let you push back.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:52.880
How do you and obviously we're both army, so we used to be just like just do what I tell you, but we can't do that.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:54.640
It's like you gotta be connected.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.720
So, like, how do you how do you deal with the practitioners in your staff that you know kind of push back on that stuff?
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:02.480
Yeah, that no, that's a great question.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.839
In fact, so at a previous organization, I won't name it, but it was not done the right way, right?
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:13.279
I was the practitioner, I was in the SOC, and it was exactly the scenario you laid out, right?
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:18.000
Like our CISO would come in like, hey guys, we bought this awesome technology, y'all need to learn it.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:27.119
And we're like, okay, like, well, there's three other technologies that are better and they're probably cheaper, and their their support's better, and we actually like them better.
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:33.279
Like it would have been nice to have a seat at the table, at least to provide input or ask questions, but it was never the case.
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.559
And so as a leader, I said I will never do that, right?
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.720
And so I flip the script for my team.
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:45.039
What I do is I go out and vet the startups, and I vet, you know, whether it's a startup or any technology, right?
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.160
I'll vet it first.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:58.480
And if it's something that's aligned with a problem we have, a challenge that we're you know we're having, I'll look at it and then I'll bring it to my experts, my technical experts, and have them see it and see a demo.
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:00.400
And then we sit down and we talk about it.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.319
And I walk because they're gonna be the ones using the technology, not me, right?
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:07.920
And so I want their insights, I want their thoughts.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:14.079
And if it's something they're excited about or something that they want to do, then we'll pursue it, right?
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.720
I don't make that a decision by myself.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:27.200
I I actually I make it a team decision, and there's a lot of times where I'll bring in some a technology that I think is pretty cool, and they'll look at it, yeah, it's okay, but have you seen this?
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:28.319
Or what about this?
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:32.559
And I listen to them and because ultimately that's the thing is I want them to be excited.
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:40.000
I want their buy-in, I want them to be a part of that decision because then we're all gonna be more successful because I'm listening to them.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.480
They know they're a part of that decision making.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:46.000
They're a part of our program, our technology, right?
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:53.200
Because on the opposite side, if you don't get their involvement up front, they're not gonna be excited about it.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:56.400
They're gonna be, you know, they're forced to use this technology they don't want.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.759
So it's not gonna, they're not gonna use it to its full potential because they don't want to.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.799
Use it right.
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.279
So I think that's been a huge win for us.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.440
And the thing is, that's what keeps them here.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.039
That's what keeps them on my team.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:08.799
Is they're they know they're a part of that.
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:15.200
They know that we're constantly elevating the program and we're adding new and the latest cutting edge technology.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.599
So they're never like stagnant.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.960
They're never bored, right?
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:21.519
They're always playing with the latest and greatest toys, right?
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.839
So that's been a huge success for us.
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:30.400
Yeah, I think that's a great idea because too many cases the practitioners get overlooked and the process.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.240
Yeah, and the thing is the ult again, like I said, they're gonna be ones using it.
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:35.680
They're the experts, right?
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.000
It just it's to me, it's just common sense.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:41.440
You know, you need their buying and their feedback and their insights, right?
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.640
Yeah, CISOs get a dashboard, that's all you get.
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:45.519
Don't we touch it anymore?
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.839
Yeah, and I think it's different.
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:49.359
There's different types of leaders, right?
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.920
There's some leaders that they want to be in the weeds and they want to continue to play whack-a-mole and do all that.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:13.759
But I'm like, in order for me to keep at the strategic level and look if future and forward thinking and dealing with the C-suite and the leadership, they need to be the ones really diving in, you know, because if I'm too busy, then the strategy gets lost because there's not time to think about it or focus on it.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:16.559
That's I love that you brought up both aspects.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.839
One is strategic.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:18.960
You're a CISO.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:29.599
If you don't have enough to do to where you have time to always play in the tools, you're either not doing your job right or that company doesn't need a CISO on the team.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:30.480
Right.
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.119
Um, and two, it gets exciting.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:44.799
Like anybody that it's actually what one of the reasons I moved to be a pre-sale security engineer back in the day out of being a practitioner, because I got to play with so many different tools and see so many different environments.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:52.319
And one thing you don't get to do if you're somebody working online in the security field is you don't get to change environments, generally.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:59.119
It's your environment, and there's only so much ownership you can have of that environment to make you love doing what you do and putting it together.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:07.200
But if you got somebody that has some, at the very least, on the edge, if not bleeding edge technology, then you can learn stuff.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.079
That's just exciting.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.640
And that's not even to me from a resume building perspective.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.640
That's just like I just get to play with something new.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.319
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:21.119
So I love both of those aspects of how you want to do your job right, but also want to keep your people in a spot where they're having a good time.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:22.079
Yeah, that's important.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:28.000
So is there any way for folks to submit their products or solutions to your group?
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:34.000
Yeah, I mean, we're we're constantly looking at new technology, new, you know, startups getting demos and things like that.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:37.119
Honestly, pretty much everyone reaches out through WhatsApp, you know.
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.960
For the most Israeli folks, that's kind of their That's what I've learned in that.
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.680
It's amazing how much we reached out to founders on the email and they're like, Oh, you hit me up on WhatsApp.
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:46.640
I'm like, What?
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:47.519
Yeah, whatever.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:47.920
Yep.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.640
Yeah, because they don't most of them don't read email, they read WhatsApp.
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:52.720
Business, I don't care.
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.079
Yeah, yeah, that's it's been interesting with that.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:02.720
But yeah, through WhatsApp, people reach out to me constantly on LinkedIn or I'm available, I talk to pretty much anyone.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.160
Obviously, my time's limited.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.680
I can't, you know, see 50 demos a week.
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.400
At one point, I kind of was, and I was like, all right, that's gotta stop.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.519
I don't have time for that.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:14.079
Burnout, but yeah, I'm open to talk to anyone.
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:16.880
But yeah, I love just hearing about this technology.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:24.400
I mean every day you're learning about new stuff, like you were mentioning, Phil, about the AI pen testing, things like that.
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:36.640
I've heard a couple solutions where it's basically like a whole new purpose built from the ground up LLM that is on the for the defensive side.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:44.400
Because most of the LLMs that are used from the defensive side are already pre-built open AI or anthropic or whatever, right?
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:58.480
But this one is actually purpose built from the ground up, which sounds pretty interesting to me because it seems like a lot of the the technology is it leans more to the what am I trying to say?
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.759
It's more beneficial to the offensive side than it is the defensive side, right?
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:13.599
But the only way we're gonna be able to keep up with this and be able to properly combat all this is to keep the same speed on the defensive side as the offensive side, of course, right?
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:15.279
And so I thought that was an interesting concept.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.079
There's also sorry, John, can I ask you a question about that one?
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.559
Maybe if you're not obviously not asking for the name of it right here, unless they're open to it.
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:31.920
But do you know if they're doing like an open weight model where they're showing how that LLM is built, or is it pretty close to where they're not showing that?
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.319
To be honest, I'd met with them yesterday.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:40.240
We're supposed to actually have an actual demo next week with my technical expert because I want him to geek out with them.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.039
We didn't go into that specific detail.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:55.920
The way they explained it, I'm probably gonna do a really poor job of explaining it, but basically it comes in and just you leverage that with all your existing security tools to give you an upper hand on defensive speed, reaction speed.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.119
I'll need to know more details before I can speak intelligently about it.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.880
But there's stuff like that that's building out, and I thought that was kind of incredible.
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:21.920
There's other ones where it's like almost like an agentic team, where it's like almost like MSP in a box, an agentic SOC analyst, an agentic security engineer, agentic IAM analyst, agentic GRC, where for for organizations where they have really lean teams, or maybe some places where it's a one-man shop, right?
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:29.599
Uh or some people invest a ton in MSPs where something like this sounds like it would be pretty incredible to have to automate a lot of that.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:34.400
I mean, you know, equally exciting and terrifying to automate all that.
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:43.519
I mean, but any of the I agree, but any of the agentic socks that they're not thinking about that, where they have agents playing off of other agents.
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:54.480
We were talking about that at the Cloud Security Alliance yesterday, where it's like you you've got to have multiple agents, like even doing guardrails for other agents.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.799
But it I've talked to several of the agentic socks.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:01.680
Like when I have a conversation with them, like what kind of feedback loop are you getting, or how are you putting guardrails on this?
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:10.319
And most of them are saying we're creating agents for doing thread hunting and we're creating agents for AI or for uh IAM, like you said, or we're creating it for whatever.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:15.359
And they're talking to each other, just like to your point, a team would be.
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:20.960
And it's not just to gather information from them, it's to like, is that really something you think's a problem?
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:22.160
So, yeah, it is scary.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:34.640
It's gonna be interesting to see how much of them I don't know, what terminators here, I guess, but it's just worrisome and at the same time, it's really freaking cool to see the transformation to cybersecurity specifically, but everything.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:35.279
I don't know.
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.039
Yeah, completely left field.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:48.400
But my sister, she's a CPA, and she's yeah, for years, they've been telling them like if you don't know how to create bots and agents and automate and use AI, you won't have a job.
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:50.079
And that's an accounting, you know.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:55.599
I mean, I'm sure all departments, all fields are gonna be impacted, and that's gonna be a part of the interview process.
00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:06.960
Like the they might give you an AI test, or they might give you some kind of proficiency test to see how well you use AI as well as your experience, as well as your skill set in that specific field.
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:07.839
Crazy.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:08.960
Yeah.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:17.440
John, any parting thoughts on the innovation side or anything on Launch Point Collective you want to talk about before we jump off?
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:28.960
No, I'd just say I'm super excited about CybersecCon and getting introducing our network and all our peers to these amazing, brilliant technologists and their new startups.
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:31.599
They're it's amazing some of the stuff they're building out.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:35.440
And our biggest thing is I'm not a sales guy, neither is David, right?
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.599
Our big thing is we just want to introduce people.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:43.839
We want them to build a relationship, we want them to get to know these people, and that's a big deal, especially with my two hats.
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:50.000
When I do come to see so as other folks, and I am trying to introduce them to startups, I don't want them to ever think that I'm trying to sell something to them.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.480
It's more of, hey, this thing's pretty awesome.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:53.920
This is something I think you should know about.
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:59.359
That's I'm super excited to introduce these great startups to our community.
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:06.400
Yeah, the event that I went to that you and David put on, you had what, three startups and a VC there.
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.799
And in no way, shape, or form did I ever sense any kind of sales.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:21.200
I mean, obviously, you let them talk about what they're gonna talk about for, but it was literally what like if it was a minute, that was probably like a minute long or something.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:29.680
They stood up at their table and did it, and the rest of the time it was just everybody having conversations, and it was there were great conversations, it was really well done.
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:36.000
That's the kind of events people and not the beat you about the head and shoulders with sales, right?
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:39.279
So, no, extremely well done.
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.480
I'm excited to go to more of those and see what you guys do.
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:44.400
It was well done.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.440
Awesome.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:50.079
Thanks for joining us, John, and I look forward to meeting you in person next month.
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:56.799
And everyone, make sure to get your ticket to CybersecCon, and we'll see you in Houston on the 15th and 16th.
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:57.440
Until next month.
00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:58.720
I might have discount codes.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:30:59.920
I might have discount codes.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:00.880
Hit me in.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:01.920
Thanks, y'all.
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:02.720
I appreciate it.
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:03.759
Thanks for talking.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.039
This has been a Cybersec Media production.
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:17.920
Cyber Hackcast is hosted by Michael Farnum and Philip Wiley.
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:24.240
It's directed by Bill Brenner, produced by Lauren Andrus, and edited by Ivan Baskinzillo.
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.319
Our music is by Kike Guts.
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:35.759
The views and opinions expressed in this show are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:43.119
This show is for informational purposes only and does not render or offer to render personalized advice.
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Subscribe now so you never miss an episode.
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You can find all our podcasts, articles, blogs, and conference talks on cyberspecmedia.com.
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That's cyberwithout the e.
00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:02.000
And follow cyberstechmedia on LinkedIn at Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
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You can keep up with CyberHackcon by following us on LinkedIn, X, Instagram, and Facebook at CyberstackEvent.
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And you can learn more about the conference or buy tickets at cyberhackcon.com.
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Welcome to another episode of Cyber Hack Cast.
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I'm joined by my BBFF, Michael Farnum.
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So how are you, Michael?
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I'm good, Phil.
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John, do you know what that stands for?
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I don't.
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Go ahead and tell him.
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It stands for Bald Best Friend Forever.
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So Sam was his BFF.
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So I'm his BBFF.
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Nice.
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That's awesome.
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So also we got joining today John Barrow, co-founder and managing partner at Launch Point Collective.
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How are you doing, John?
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Doing good.
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Glad to be here.
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So did you get to make it out to Black Hat?
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I did.
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Yeah.
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I was there for a long time.
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I'm actually originally from Las Vegas.
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So I was actually in Vegas for two weeks.
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Not on this trip for two weeks.
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Let me clarify.
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I was there for five days, which was probably more than I should have been, but yes, I survived.
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So was it a good conference for you?
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Yeah, it was great.
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Full transparency.
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I didn't go to the actual hall because I get more value out of actually having one-on-one conversations with folks, but spoke to a lot of technologies.
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I mean, it's amazing how much is out there, the speed of technology being built and developed.
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It's incredible.
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Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
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A lot of interesting conversations go on outside of the business hall.
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I had a meeting with some a couple guys that are founders of a Japanese startup that has an automated AI-enabled pen testing tool that I got to check out.
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So it was an interesting conference and interesting how many people are trying to automate pen testing.
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Because I remember a few years back, you had Pintera Horizon 3, and then Ridge Security was newer onto the scene, or I found out about them later on.
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But now it's amazing how many people are doing autonomous or AI automated pen testing.
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Yeah, we have one at my organization as well that we're using Novi.
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Cool.
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I'll have to check that one out.
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It's been kind of interesting to see so more, so many more people are coming on the scene.
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I've seen some products that look pretty promising and some of them not so much, but it's kind of kind of interesting how so many people are trying to do that.
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So how is Blackout for you, Michael?
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It was really good, very productive.
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I did go on the floor.
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The cool thing about having a media brand is I can get a media badge to pay for anything.
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And press badge gets you everywhere, man.
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You can just run around and do you know that, Phil?
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You got one too.
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But you can just run around and visit everywhere you want to visit.
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So it's actually really cool.
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Very productive.
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Did a whole roll-up post on everybody that I talked to because I went to I saw you there too, besides Las Vegas, and then went over to Black Hat, didn't do DEF CON, but but yeah, great, bunch of great conversations, great community conversations, and new vendor conversations.
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Uh talked to John Strand.
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My brain just locked.
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He's gonna shoot me.
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What's the name of this company, Bill?
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Good gracious.
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Black Hills.
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Cybersecurity.
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Good gracious.
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Well, and does Wild West confess.
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Sorry, John, if you're watching.
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So I'd actually never met him face to face, so that was a lot of fun.
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Did an interview with him and did an interview with White Knight Labs and just a bunch of different people.
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So I had a great time.
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Do wish I'd have gone to DEF CON, even though I was worn out by the end of that time.
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So how about for you, Phil?
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It was good, and I really liked that piece of content you put out.
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I really liked the way you had the videos embedded in it.
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Because typically when someone does a piece like that, you just see just the written content.
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So I like the way you included the video with that too.
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It made it even better.
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So yeah, it was a great piece of content.
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Also, too, you spoke with the CEO of Suzu Labs where I work.
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Yep.
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So that was that was cool.
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Okay, here's my story.
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I think I told you about that.
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So when I was in the army, I was I'm Desert Shill Desert Storm vet.
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So I went in July of 90s, Saddam invaded in August of 90s.
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So I got to celebrate New Year's on the plane going over to the going over to Mid Middle East.
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And when I was in, there were still vets that were, you know, lifetime serving vet, you know, had a whole career from Vietnam.
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And you know, we used to look at them with all, man, like these are the OGs, right?
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Oh so I'm talking to your CISO or your CEO, and I can't remember the other guy's name that was there.
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I was talking to him.
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And they were both vets who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan, you know, in the more recent conflicts.
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And when I told them I was a Desert Shill Desert Storm, they were looking at me like I used to look at those Vietnam vets.
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And I'm like, dude, I am not old enough.
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And then I started thinking about it.
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I was like, when I was in the army, it was Vietnam was closer to when I was 90 to 92 than Desert Shill Desert Storm is to now.
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And it's like, how does this even work?
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Like my brain could not function.
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I like I glitched for a little bit.
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So yeah, it's like when you hear 90s music called being called classic music.
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Oh, that drives me crazy.
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It was bad enough when 80s music got on there, like Van Halen and stuff, and then yeah, yeah.
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See, that's my story about your CEO, him like, oh, they were both like, whoa, you were a dozen show, does a star.
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I was like, you need to stop that right now.
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So anyway.
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So yeah, to get into our segment about Cyber Hatcon.
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We've if you enjoyed Cyber HatCon, then CyberSetCon is coming up in September on the 15th and 16th.
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And we have a Cyber HatCon track.
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So if you really enjoy that type of content, we'll have a track there as well as some really cool villages, if you wouldn't mind sharing about the villages.
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Yeah, we we're going all out on villages this year.
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So we have got uh Grayson's Village, is what it'll always be named.
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We have got our normal capture the flag.
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So Hutch is doing that for us as usual.
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He's our guy that does all of our CTFs now.
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We've got an OSINT village, which we did at Cyber HatCon as well.
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Really excited about bringing that back.
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We've got a Cyber Brick Village, so we can't call it the L-E-G something video or village, so we have to call it Brick Village, but we'll have some fun with that.
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We've got lockpicking as normal, ham radio, which we've done for the last couple of years, which was all also at CyberHackCon.
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Then CyberCog Labs, yeah, Dr.
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Dustin Sachs is putting on the behavioral cyber risk village, which should be fun.
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So people can just spend their whole time at the village this time.
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Then we've got what we originally did at CyberHackcon.
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We're bringing back the CyberHackCon AI Village.
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That's actually all those ones I mentioned before are all in the vendor hall.
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So we've got two that are spun off into a different area, and that's the AI Village.
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So in the Cyber HackCon area, in near the main hall will be the AI Village, and that one's going to be a lot of fun.
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That's got TMP workshop, HTB versus a swarm, vulnerable LLM workshop with it, SaaS AI Swarm workshop, like all these cool little workshops with it.
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And then Zage Security is sponsoring in Ring 310C over by the OTSec track, which is our OTSec con within a con.
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But we've got the OT Village in there.
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So that we've got Kevin Kumpf is coming in there with Chasm and is going to put a lot of stuff on.
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There's going to be some neat.
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I can't, I don't want to spoil it yet, but there's going to be a release that they're doing at Chasm from some really cool stuff that people will be able to use.
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Again, I don't want to spoil it yet because he wants to do that announcement at the show.
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But it's got to be worth it if you're an OT person and want to look at some really deep tech on the OT side to come in there.
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And I think Orin is bringing something as well.
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Oren Hatch is bringing something in there as well.
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So some hardware stuff.
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So that one's going to be a lot of fun.
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It's got ICS Village, OT Simulation Village, and OT hacking kit all in there.
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I know there was a lot of information, but if you go, we'll put it in the show notes.
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But if you go to cybersetcon.com/slash villages, you'll get all that information and you'll be able to see what all we've got.
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So it's going to be a lot of fun.
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Yeah, so it's pretty amazing how the villages evolved.
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And just to comment on the AI village, that was like we had four tracks at Cyber HackCon, but that was almost like a fifth track.
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All the content that they had there and the hands-on activities.
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Yeah, it was really well done.
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They came to us with that and they put that together.
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And I was like, yeah, let's me and Phil both.
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We're like, please.
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This sounds like a lot of fun.
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So it was really well done.
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I'm excited about all of them.
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But speaking of Cyber Hackcon, we've also got some kind of news, right, Phil?
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Yeah, yep.
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So I guess we've got a location and just waiting to sign the contract to firm it up and some tentative dates.
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So we should be announcing that maybe on the next episode.
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Yep.
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Excited about getting that together.
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That's been a little bit of a tas to get all that lined up, but we're finally there.
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So get all that finalized and we'll be able to tell everybody the dates.
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We will be back, but it will be spring of 2027.
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Second one.
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Bring your friends, bring your family.
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Pretty excited about it.
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It was a good time this year, and really want to have time to really get the message out, mark it, and hype up the next one.
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Yep.
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I agree.
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We are going to now talk to Mr.
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Barrow.
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John Barrow.
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So we announced you as or introduced you as co-founder and managing partner at Launch Point Collective, but you also have another job, John.
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What else do you?
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I do.
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Yeah, a big job, actually.
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Yeah.
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I'm the seaside uh JB Point Xer and Co., which were the parent of nine manufacturing companies.
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I hesitate because we've gone through a few different MA, MA situations.
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I believe it's nine now.
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But uh yeah, we manufacture truck bodies, which is our bread and butter for like major fleets, UPS, FedEx, Penskey, ATT, Ryder.
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And we have a few other, we do one of our other big ones is it's engineered foam packaging, where basically any body part, car part, anything that needs to be transported and protected and climate controlled.
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Like think like during the COVID, like the vaccines had to be shipped at a certain temperature and all that.
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We were a big leader in that space.
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But yeah, it's been interesting building out that program.
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I've been there right at four years now, which is incredible.
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I mean, time's flying, but it was uh pretty exciting for me.
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It was a greenfield.
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There was no program, no budget, no policies, no team.
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It was exciting to be able to build that up from the ground up.
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And it ties into what we're talking about here is we over the years have grown the team, but also gotten to the point where we have a very lean team.
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That's just the way the company operates.
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All the teams are very lean.
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And so um I have always tried to be innovative and creative with my programs and how we combat the speed of volume of attacks and threats and things like that.
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So I basically out of necessity have become an early adopter leader of startup technology.
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50% of my program is startups, which I know a lot of my peers think is crazy.
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And they when I mention to them some of the stuff that we've invested in that we're utilizing, even like talking about identic AI SOC or AI autonomous pen testing and things like that.
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About a year ago, year and a half ago, people thought I was crazy.
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And why would you do that?
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How do you trust that?
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And then now those same folks are coming back.
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Like, hey, can you tell me more about that?
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Obviously, like I said, the speed and volume of attacks and speed of exploitation with the AI frontier models and everything.
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I don't think we have a choice anymore.
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You have to embrace startups, be able to keep up.
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But but yeah, so a quick background on me, I'm assuming that's the next step.
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Is it's my background, I was Army as well, like Michael.
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I was Army Intel.
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I worked for NSA, I was in the DC area for about 10 years, then made a transition over to cyber.
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I'm I mentioned before, I'm grew up in Las Vegas.
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I was at Caesars for many years, then moved to Houston, ran the cyber program at Texas Children's Hospital for a few years, and then moved over to JB Poindexter.
00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:17.519
But yeah, kind of where the reason I have the two hats that I have specifically around Launchpoint Collective is as a CISO, we get invited to stuff all the time, right?
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All these events and innovation showcases and things.
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And what happens is, you know, a majority of these we get invited to, it's a VC, they bring all their port co companies.
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There's like 10 of them.
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It's like speed dating.
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Each of them gets five minutes.
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Then, like, hey, are you interested?
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And you're like, I don't even know what the technology is yet.
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But so there's a problem there.
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And then of the 10 that are presented, there might be two that I'm actually interested in, right?
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The other eight are kind of a waste of time.
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I'm on that side.
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And on the other side in the audience, 95% of the people that are there are there for free food and a drink.
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They don't care about the technology, right?
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And so my partner, David Sledge, and I, over the years, we'll be at some of these events.
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And so we started talking.
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We're like, there's a problem here.
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There's a lot of amazing technology coming out that people need to be aware of, but there's so much noise.
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Like, how do you cut through that noise?
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And how do you get the right leaders, the right decision makers in the same room as those brilliant technologies, the right startups, so that way we can help streamline that innovation pipeline and really get the right tech in the hands of these companies so they can combat this, you know, this speed of exploitation and threats, right?
00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:35.120
And so that's how we formed Launchpoint Collective, is we're trying to help solve that problem, right?
00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.639
So we're doing second-level vetting on the startup side.
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We're looking at a ton of startups and really figuring out which ones based on the team and their pedigree, and are they former founders and what what technology are they building?
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And is it something that we really think is going to make an impact that people really need to know about?
00:13:54.320 --> 00:14:01.039
And then finding early adopter leaders that are aligned with their ICP and their target market and getting them together, right?
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:12.879
And so with that, I know at CybersecCon last year there were some startups there, and this isn't a knock on Michael or the team or anything, but I don't know if it was publicized that big, right?
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.320
Like I it wasn't, yeah.
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:15.679
That wasn't it wasn't done.
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It was our first year, and we brought it in a little bit last minute.
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.679
I yeah, a couple of months last minute, if you will.
00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:24.159
Right.
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:29.919
And so I met with so I met with Michael, I don't know, it might have been a year ago now, eight months ago at least, or something.
00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:30.399
Yeah.
00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.440
We had lunch, and I was like, here's what I want to do.
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:34.879
If you're okay with this, right?
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:35.759
Here's what I want to do.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:43.679
I want to bring 20 to 30 of the top startups in the world to CybersecCon and really make that a key highlight of the conference.
00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:49.360
Because I think a lot of these startups, most of them have never been to Texas, first of all.
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.039
Second of all, a lot of people skim over Houston in general.
00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.840
They might go to Austin here and there because it's known as the tech city.
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.639
Some of them go to Dallas, but most of them bypass Houston.
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:05.279
Because I think the mindset I've actually heard from VC managing partners as well as startups is like Houston's a waste of time.
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:06.639
There's no early adopters there.
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.639
Everyone's old school, they move very slow.
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:09.840
And I'm like, well, that's not true.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.600
And in some cases, yes, but in most cases, there are actually a lot of early adopters.
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.679
You just need to know who they are, right?
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:29.120
So we have partnered with Michael and his team, and we are bringing, as of today, there's 21 uh startups that we're bringing, and there's others that we're actually actively talking to to bring as well.
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.519
And they're all participating in different capacities.
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:39.279
Some have booths, some are just coming for events, some are presenting, some are in the final launch pad competition, which is exciting.
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:44.320
Three of the five finalists are startups that we brought, which we're super excited about.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:52.639
And uh I just want to name the ones that we currently have coming, just so people are aware of all these amazing uh companies that are coming.
00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:17.039
We have Ent, A Zome, Astellia, Vision Height, Novi, Dash, Above, Profit AI, Mate, Zero Networks, Bloom, Glow, Unfold, Beacon, Centra, Mind, Clutch, Native, App Viewx, Opti, and Clyro.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:24.240
And these are, I mean, as Michael knows, it's it's a different mindset, right?
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:33.360
Like the, I mean, they're not all Israeli startups, a majority are, but it's been exciting bringing these these startups, and we're super excited about it.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.360
But there's a lot of work that goes into that, right?
00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:42.399
I mean, a lot of these folks are traveling from Tel Aviv, and there's a lot of you know details and a lot of missing things.
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:48.000
It's kind of been hurt, like hurting cats a little bit, but the logistics are yeah, the logistics are are heavy.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:49.279
Yeah, it definitely is.
00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:53.200
But we're we're fired up and they're all super excited as well.
00:16:53.440 --> 00:17:11.119
Um, and it other than just bringing them to the conference alone to show them how amazing CybersecCon is and the real value of it, but we're also we have other events around the the conference as well, because again, these people, a lot of these people are traveling internationally to be here.
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.240
So we really want to provide the most value possible to them.
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:20.160
So we have our pre-conference kickoff party the night before, that Monday, at the rustic uptown.
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:26.000
There's gonna be armadillo racing, Texas themed cocktails and drinks, live music, cowboy hat station.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.519
It's gonna be a fun time.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.839
We have some lunches and dinners, and we also have an Astros suite that Wednesday.
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:34.400
But anyway, we're super fired up about it.
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:39.279
And and I want to give kudos to Michael and his team because they've been a fantastic partner.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.039
It's been great working with them.
00:17:41.279 --> 00:18:04.319
And I really think that this is maybe not no longer, but a hidden gem, right, in the country is you go to Black Hat and you go to RSA, they're great conferences and they are valuable, but let's be honest, like it's it's overboard, it's sensory overload, you know, and it's like mostly sales, you know, and it's like as a CISO, it's like you come out of it and you're like, what the hell just happened?
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:17.839
You know, in that article that I was talking about earlier, I did something where Andy Ellis and I were walking the floor because he goes through Andy grades, like he literally goes through every single booth and does like you know what they do and does it line.
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:19.599
It's amazing how much work incredible.
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:27.440
And I was walking the floor with him for just a little bit with my little camera, and I was just like, oh my gosh, it's like I don't need that much B-roll film, man.
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:28.799
It's just like crazy.
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.200
Yeah, and I massively appreciate all his words.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:39.279
I'm just super, super excited about what we're doing together and looking forward forward for to it for years.
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:49.039
Like that lunch, I actually came to you to talk to you about some other stuff, and you brought that up, and I'm I'm like massively excited for you to do that.
00:18:49.279 --> 00:19:02.559
The partnership's gonna be great, going on for a long time, but I kind of want to dig in on the the technical side from like I you know, CISOs don't always dig down deep into the weeds.
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:23.279
What do your folks you probably got a good relationship with them and they know how this works, but I've heard a lot of practitioners be like, and I actually I've said this before too when I wasn't you know leading a team, like well, my CISO just brought me something and said I need to implement this damn thing.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:36.640
And how did how do you how do you talk to them like that practitioner of like you know, get them get them to do a good buy-in on this, how to get them invested in it?
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:48.400
And what do you say to those CISOs that have challenges that want to get deeper in the weeds, but can't, so they let their people obviously do it, and then their people like Goodwin will let you push back.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:52.880
How do you and obviously we're both army, so we used to be just like just do what I tell you, but we can't do that.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:54.640
It's like you gotta be connected.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.720
So, like, how do you how do you deal with the practitioners in your staff that you know kind of push back on that stuff?
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:02.480
Yeah, that no, that's a great question.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.839
In fact, so at a previous organization, I won't name it, but it was not done the right way, right?
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:13.279
I was the practitioner, I was in the SOC, and it was exactly the scenario you laid out, right?
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:18.000
Like our CISO would come in like, hey guys, we bought this awesome technology, y'all need to learn it.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:27.119
And we're like, okay, like, well, there's three other technologies that are better and they're probably cheaper, and their their support's better, and we actually like them better.
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:33.279
Like it would have been nice to have a seat at the table, at least to provide input or ask questions, but it was never the case.
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.559
And so as a leader, I said I will never do that, right?
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.720
And so I flip the script for my team.
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:45.039
What I do is I go out and vet the startups, and I vet, you know, whether it's a startup or any technology, right?
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.160
I'll vet it first.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:58.480
And if it's something that's aligned with a problem we have, a challenge that we're you know we're having, I'll look at it and then I'll bring it to my experts, my technical experts, and have them see it and see a demo.
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:00.400
And then we sit down and we talk about it.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.319
And I walk because they're gonna be the ones using the technology, not me, right?
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:07.920
And so I want their insights, I want their thoughts.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:14.079
And if it's something they're excited about or something that they want to do, then we'll pursue it, right?
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.720
I don't make that a decision by myself.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:27.200
I I actually I make it a team decision, and there's a lot of times where I'll bring in some a technology that I think is pretty cool, and they'll look at it, yeah, it's okay, but have you seen this?
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:28.319
Or what about this?
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:32.559
And I listen to them and because ultimately that's the thing is I want them to be excited.
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:40.000
I want their buy-in, I want them to be a part of that decision because then we're all gonna be more successful because I'm listening to them.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.480
They know they're a part of that decision making.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:46.000
They're a part of our program, our technology, right?
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:53.200
Because on the opposite side, if you don't get their involvement up front, they're not gonna be excited about it.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:56.400
They're gonna be, you know, they're forced to use this technology they don't want.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.759
So it's not gonna, they're not gonna use it to its full potential because they don't want to.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.799
Use it right.
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.279
So I think that's been a huge win for us.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.440
And the thing is, that's what keeps them here.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.039
That's what keeps them on my team.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:08.799
Is they're they know they're a part of that.
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:15.200
They know that we're constantly elevating the program and we're adding new and the latest cutting edge technology.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.599
So they're never like stagnant.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.960
They're never bored, right?
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:21.519
They're always playing with the latest and greatest toys, right?
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.839
So that's been a huge success for us.
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:30.400
Yeah, I think that's a great idea because too many cases the practitioners get overlooked and the process.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.240
Yeah, and the thing is the ult again, like I said, they're gonna be ones using it.
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:35.680
They're the experts, right?
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.000
It just it's to me, it's just common sense.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:41.440
You know, you need their buying and their feedback and their insights, right?
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.640
Yeah, CISOs get a dashboard, that's all you get.
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:45.519
Don't we touch it anymore?
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.839
Yeah, and I think it's different.
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:49.359
There's different types of leaders, right?
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.920
There's some leaders that they want to be in the weeds and they want to continue to play whack-a-mole and do all that.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:13.759
But I'm like, in order for me to keep at the strategic level and look if future and forward thinking and dealing with the C-suite and the leadership, they need to be the ones really diving in, you know, because if I'm too busy, then the strategy gets lost because there's not time to think about it or focus on it.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:16.559
That's I love that you brought up both aspects.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.839
One is strategic.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:18.960
You're a CISO.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:29.599
If you don't have enough to do to where you have time to always play in the tools, you're either not doing your job right or that company doesn't need a CISO on the team.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:30.480
Right.
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.119
Um, and two, it gets exciting.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:44.799
Like anybody that it's actually what one of the reasons I moved to be a pre-sale security engineer back in the day out of being a practitioner, because I got to play with so many different tools and see so many different environments.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:52.319
And one thing you don't get to do if you're somebody working online in the security field is you don't get to change environments, generally.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:59.119
It's your environment, and there's only so much ownership you can have of that environment to make you love doing what you do and putting it together.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:07.200
But if you got somebody that has some, at the very least, on the edge, if not bleeding edge technology, then you can learn stuff.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.079
That's just exciting.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.640
And that's not even to me from a resume building perspective.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.640
That's just like I just get to play with something new.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.319
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:21.119
So I love both of those aspects of how you want to do your job right, but also want to keep your people in a spot where they're having a good time.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:22.079
Yeah, that's important.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:28.000
So is there any way for folks to submit their products or solutions to your group?
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:34.000
Yeah, I mean, we're we're constantly looking at new technology, new, you know, startups getting demos and things like that.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:37.119
Honestly, pretty much everyone reaches out through WhatsApp, you know.
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.960
For the most Israeli folks, that's kind of their That's what I've learned in that.
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.680
It's amazing how much we reached out to founders on the email and they're like, Oh, you hit me up on WhatsApp.
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:46.640
I'm like, What?
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:47.519
Yeah, whatever.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:47.920
Yep.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.640
Yeah, because they don't most of them don't read email, they read WhatsApp.
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:52.720
Business, I don't care.
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.079
Yeah, yeah, that's it's been interesting with that.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:02.720
But yeah, through WhatsApp, people reach out to me constantly on LinkedIn or I'm available, I talk to pretty much anyone.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.160
Obviously, my time's limited.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.680
I can't, you know, see 50 demos a week.
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.400
At one point, I kind of was, and I was like, all right, that's gotta stop.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.519
I don't have time for that.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:14.079
Burnout, but yeah, I'm open to talk to anyone.
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:16.880
But yeah, I love just hearing about this technology.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:24.400
I mean every day you're learning about new stuff, like you were mentioning, Phil, about the AI pen testing, things like that.
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:36.640
I've heard a couple solutions where it's basically like a whole new purpose built from the ground up LLM that is on the for the defensive side.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:44.400
Because most of the LLMs that are used from the defensive side are already pre-built open AI or anthropic or whatever, right?
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:58.480
But this one is actually purpose built from the ground up, which sounds pretty interesting to me because it seems like a lot of the the technology is it leans more to the what am I trying to say?
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.759
It's more beneficial to the offensive side than it is the defensive side, right?
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:13.599
But the only way we're gonna be able to keep up with this and be able to properly combat all this is to keep the same speed on the defensive side as the offensive side, of course, right?
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:15.279
And so I thought that was an interesting concept.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.079
There's also sorry, John, can I ask you a question about that one?
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.559
Maybe if you're not obviously not asking for the name of it right here, unless they're open to it.
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:31.920
But do you know if they're doing like an open weight model where they're showing how that LLM is built, or is it pretty close to where they're not showing that?
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.319
To be honest, I'd met with them yesterday.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:40.240
We're supposed to actually have an actual demo next week with my technical expert because I want him to geek out with them.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.039
We didn't go into that specific detail.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:55.920
The way they explained it, I'm probably gonna do a really poor job of explaining it, but basically it comes in and just you leverage that with all your existing security tools to give you an upper hand on defensive speed, reaction speed.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.119
I'll need to know more details before I can speak intelligently about it.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.880
But there's stuff like that that's building out, and I thought that was kind of incredible.
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:21.920
There's other ones where it's like almost like an agentic team, where it's like almost like MSP in a box, an agentic SOC analyst, an agentic security engineer, agentic IAM analyst, agentic GRC, where for for organizations where they have really lean teams, or maybe some places where it's a one-man shop, right?
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:29.599
Uh or some people invest a ton in MSPs where something like this sounds like it would be pretty incredible to have to automate a lot of that.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:34.400
I mean, you know, equally exciting and terrifying to automate all that.
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:43.519
I mean, but any of the I agree, but any of the agentic socks that they're not thinking about that, where they have agents playing off of other agents.
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:54.480
We were talking about that at the Cloud Security Alliance yesterday, where it's like you you've got to have multiple agents, like even doing guardrails for other agents.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.799
But it I've talked to several of the agentic socks.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:01.680
Like when I have a conversation with them, like what kind of feedback loop are you getting, or how are you putting guardrails on this?
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:10.319
And most of them are saying we're creating agents for doing thread hunting and we're creating agents for AI or for uh IAM, like you said, or we're creating it for whatever.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:15.359
And they're talking to each other, just like to your point, a team would be.
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:20.960
And it's not just to gather information from them, it's to like, is that really something you think's a problem?
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:22.160
So, yeah, it is scary.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:34.640
It's gonna be interesting to see how much of them I don't know, what terminators here, I guess, but it's just worrisome and at the same time, it's really freaking cool to see the transformation to cybersecurity specifically, but everything.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:35.279
I don't know.
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.039
Yeah, completely left field.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:48.400
But my sister, she's a CPA, and she's yeah, for years, they've been telling them like if you don't know how to create bots and agents and automate and use AI, you won't have a job.
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:50.079
And that's an accounting, you know.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:55.599
I mean, I'm sure all departments, all fields are gonna be impacted, and that's gonna be a part of the interview process.
00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:06.960
Like the they might give you an AI test, or they might give you some kind of proficiency test to see how well you use AI as well as your experience, as well as your skill set in that specific field.
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:07.839
Crazy.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:08.960
Yeah.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:17.440
John, any parting thoughts on the innovation side or anything on Launch Point Collective you want to talk about before we jump off?
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:28.960
No, I'd just say I'm super excited about CybersecCon and getting introducing our network and all our peers to these amazing, brilliant technologists and their new startups.
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:31.599
They're it's amazing some of the stuff they're building out.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:35.440
And our biggest thing is I'm not a sales guy, neither is David, right?
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.599
Our big thing is we just want to introduce people.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:43.839
We want them to build a relationship, we want them to get to know these people, and that's a big deal, especially with my two hats.
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:50.000
When I do come to see so as other folks, and I am trying to introduce them to startups, I don't want them to ever think that I'm trying to sell something to them.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.480
It's more of, hey, this thing's pretty awesome.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:53.920
This is something I think you should know about.
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:59.359
That's I'm super excited to introduce these great startups to our community.
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:06.400
Yeah, the event that I went to that you and David put on, you had what, three startups and a VC there.
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.799
And in no way, shape, or form did I ever sense any kind of sales.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:21.200
I mean, obviously, you let them talk about what they're gonna talk about for, but it was literally what like if it was a minute, that was probably like a minute long or something.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:29.680
They stood up at their table and did it, and the rest of the time it was just everybody having conversations, and it was there were great conversations, it was really well done.
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:36.000
That's the kind of events people and not the beat you about the head and shoulders with sales, right?
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:39.279
So, no, extremely well done.
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.480
I'm excited to go to more of those and see what you guys do.
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:44.400
It was well done.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.440
Awesome.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:50.079
Thanks for joining us, John, and I look forward to meeting you in person next month.
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:56.799
And everyone, make sure to get your ticket to CybersecCon, and we'll see you in Houston on the 15th and 16th.
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:57.440
Until next month.
00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:58.720
I might have discount codes.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:30:59.920
I might have discount codes.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:00.880
Hit me in.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:01.920
Thanks, y'all.
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:02.720
I appreciate it.
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:03.759
Thanks for talking.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.039
This has been a Cybersec Media production.
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:17.920
Cyber Hackcast is hosted by Michael Farnum and Philip Wiley.
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:24.240
It's directed by Bill Brenner, produced by Lauren Andrus, and edited by Ivan Baskinzillo.
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.319
Our music is by Kike Guts.
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:35.759
The views and opinions expressed in this show are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:43.119
This show is for informational purposes only and does not render or offer to render personalized advice.
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Subscribe now so you never miss an episode.
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You can find all our podcasts, articles, blogs, and conference talks on cyberspecmedia.com.
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That's cyberwithout the e.
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And follow cyberstechmedia on LinkedIn at Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
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You can keep up with CyberHackcon by following us on LinkedIn, X, Instagram, and Facebook at CyberstackEvent.
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And you can learn more about the conference or buy tickets at cyberhackcon.com.
