Capturing Creativity: The Journey of Daily Nature Photography

1
00:00:00,660 --> 00:00:04,920
VO: It's time to tantalize your
earbuds with creative makers and
2
00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:09,540
shakers. It's creative living,
the podcast with Jane Clauss,
3
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,440
Jane Clauss: this is creative
living, where we help you live
4
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,060
your most creative life. I'm
Jane Clauss, now on the podcast
5
00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:21,860
and pretty much in life, I love
to dive into the world of
6
00:00:21,860 --> 00:00:25,820
creativity by exploring the
stories and telling the stories
7
00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:28,940
and the journeys of artists and
makers and really true
8
00:00:28,940 --> 00:00:34,460
visionaries. And today, I have
got a very special guest. So
9
00:00:34,460 --> 00:00:39,380
before we get started, I want
you to imagine capturing the
10
00:00:39,380 --> 00:00:44,980
beauty of nature every single
day for over a decade. That's a
11
00:00:45,340 --> 00:00:49,120
lot of work, but that's exactly
what our guest, Mary Jo Hoffman
12
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,500
has been doing for the last 12
years. Mary Jo is a former
13
00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:57,280
aeronautical engineer who's
turned artist, photographer and
14
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,980
is now an author. Her book,
still the art of noticing is
15
00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:08,640
packed full of 275 of her most
stunning photos and essays to go
16
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,120
along with them that'll make you
see the world in a whole new
17
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:19,020
light, and maybe even inspire
you to live more creatively. I'm
18
00:01:19,020 --> 00:01:23,840
so happy to welcome Mary Jo
Hoffman to creative living. Hi,
19
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:24,500
Mary Jo,
20
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,760
Mary Jo: Hi Jane. That was a
fantastic intro. Thank you.
21
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:28,940
Well,
22
00:01:28,940 --> 00:01:31,940
Jane Clauss: all true. All true.
I want people to imagine what
23
00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:35,960
you did and see if we could
actually even do something every
24
00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:40,400
single day for 12 years. But you
have a very signature style of
25
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,060
creativity. But I'm going to hit
you with the hard question.
26
00:01:43,060 --> 00:01:48,700
First, Mary, Jo, what does
creativity mean to you? Oh, oh,
27
00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:49,000
that
28
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,040
Mary Jo: is so hard, truly.
Well, creating something from
29
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:59,320
nothing, using your imagination.
I mean, even if you just sit and
30
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,800
daydream, you've created
something from nothing, you've
31
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,680
created something a story in
your imagination. That's
32
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,340
creativity. I think we're all
creative. We all do. We all and
33
00:02:08,340 --> 00:02:11,460
for some of us, it gets shut
down early. I'm not sure why,
34
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,160
but we're all creative, and so,
yeah, I just say creating
35
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,920
something from nothing through
your imagination.
36
00:02:17,340 --> 00:02:19,920
Jane Clauss: I totally agree. I
always tell everyone, even my
37
00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:23,480
lawyer friends and doctor
friends who would never do
38
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,880
anything creative, or they say
they're not doing anything
39
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,820
creative. I'm like, Yeah, you're
creative. Everyone is creative.
40
00:02:29,060 --> 00:02:32,240
Let's just sit down and do
whatever it is we're doing that
41
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,000
is creative. You make it up.
That's what creativity is,
42
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:35,540
right? I
43
00:02:35,540 --> 00:02:38,000
Mary Jo: agree. I you know,
creating a life is creative.
44
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,960
We're all creative. We are all
creative, yes.
45
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,740
Jane Clauss: So why do you think
nature is such a great place to
46
00:02:44,740 --> 00:02:48,220
start when you're looking for
creativity? Because I think it's
47
00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,320
the place to start. It is,
48
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,360
Mary Jo: you know, if you read,
I love, I love reading
49
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,880
biographies of artists. If you
read any, if you read many, in
50
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,100
the end, they all come back and
say, nature is their
51
00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:05,160
inspiration. Right? At some
point, almost all will say,
52
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,060
fundamentally, nature's their
inspiration. It, you know it, it
53
00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:11,700
is, it is the ultimate
inspiration. It's infinite.
54
00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:15,180
It's, you never tire, you never
get to the bottom of it. It's
55
00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:19,080
there. It's around us, how we
evolved. It's, it's the ultimate
56
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,160
creative source. I think I
57
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,960
Jane Clauss: love that you said
it's the ultimate creative
58
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,380
source, because it is the
source, and it is, I think,
59
00:03:27,380 --> 00:03:31,100
really like they, you know, it's
this nurture in nature, like you
60
00:03:31,100 --> 00:03:33,680
go out there, they want you to
take a Nature Bath so you can
61
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,020
get more creativity. They want
to put your feet and get
62
00:03:36,020 --> 00:03:39,020
grounded and be in nature,
because that's really what
63
00:03:39,020 --> 00:03:41,140
connects you to everything. Now
64
00:03:41,140 --> 00:03:43,780
Mary Jo: that we can look at how
the brain lights up for
65
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,500
anything. You know, you put
people in a in nature, and all
66
00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:51,820
sorts of good things start
happening in the brain, and our
67
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,300
sympathetic nervous system calls
calms down. I mean, we evolved
68
00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:58,120
to be in nature and be
surrounded by nature. And when
69
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,320
you go out nature, where you're
zooming in, and, you know,
70
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,620
looking close and then zooming
out, telescoping in and out,
71
00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:08,880
that's really good for the
brain. So, yeah, a little bit of
72
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,540
time in nature every day is good
for the health. Have you always
73
00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:16,140
been a nature lover, like your
whole life? Yeah, I always want
74
00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:19,140
to. I was the tomboy who grew up
playing outside all day long.
75
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,580
You know, the edge of suburban
development in the 70s. I was
76
00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:27,980
born in 64 you know, outside
from sunrise to sunset until you
77
00:04:27,980 --> 00:04:32,240
got called home for dinner. And
yes, I loved nature from a very
78
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:32,780
young age.
79
00:04:32,780 --> 00:04:35,600
Jane Clauss: Yeah, playing with
worms, picking up different
80
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,660
animals, and looking at all the
flowers you probably know ever
81
00:04:38,660 --> 00:04:41,020
well. By now, you know what
every single flower and weed,
82
00:04:41,020 --> 00:04:43,360
and the name of it and where
it's come from. But Did you
83
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,400
always know those things? No.
84
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,280
Mary Jo: So I was at the edge of
urban development. So I played
85
00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:52,180
in the woods, mostly in the
woods build. I was a a master
86
00:04:52,180 --> 00:04:56,980
fort builder. I think I should
have become an architect, quite
87
00:04:56,980 --> 00:05:03,180
frankly. But anyway, um. So
flowers and gardening, no, but
88
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,080
in terms of learning the names
of things I have because I've
89
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,020
been doing this for 12 years and
paying such close attention, but
90
00:05:10,020 --> 00:05:15,000
it's not my strong suit. I find
subjects that interest me
91
00:05:15,540 --> 00:05:19,620
visually, and then I come home,
and then I make my photo and I
92
00:05:19,860 --> 00:05:23,600
post it to my blog still, and
it's at that point where I
93
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,780
google and find the name, and
because when in the post, I
94
00:05:26,780 --> 00:05:31,040
always the name of the subject
and the Latin name, in case
95
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,640
anyone's interested. And so
that's how I've that's my
96
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,900
education is 12 years of one
subject a day, learning the
97
00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:42,040
name, learning whether it's
native, learning whether it's
98
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:47,260
invasive, learning whether it's,
you know, a transplant from
99
00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:49,780
somewhere else, and then. So
yes, I would consider myself a
100
00:05:49,780 --> 00:05:55,060
naturalist today, but memorizing
Latin names is not, is not one
101
00:05:55,060 --> 00:05:56,440
of my strongest at all.
102
00:05:56,620 --> 00:05:57,940
Not at all well.
103
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,600
Jane Clauss: I mean, I think
that's great because your
104
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,900
project was also a bit of
education for you and for
105
00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:06,960
everybody that was following you
on your blog. So let's talk
106
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,080
about your project.
Stillblog.net, that's where your
107
00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,280
blog lives. Your first image was
sent out into the universe on
108
00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:20,520
January 1, 2012 what was the
original vision you had for the
109
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,240
blog? Or was it just like, I'm
going to put this one picture up
110
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,140
and see what happens?
111
00:06:24,379 --> 00:06:27,259
Mary Jo: Yeah, it's, it's an
interesting story. So I was in
112
00:06:27,259 --> 00:06:33,439
my 40s. Had been working
corporate aerospace re I was an
113
00:06:33,499 --> 00:06:37,879
aerospace research scientist,
which is a rocket scientist, and
114
00:06:38,599 --> 00:06:41,679
I so I worked in the aerospace
industry, in research, I was an
115
00:06:42,219 --> 00:06:45,339
aeronautical and astronautical
engineer. Those are all lots of
116
00:06:45,339 --> 00:06:51,339
big words. Yeah, so, but I had
left that job after 17 years
117
00:06:51,339 --> 00:06:57,459
because of corporate takeovers
and family planning. And my
118
00:06:57,459 --> 00:07:01,199
husband and I had taken our
young kids to live in Southern
119
00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:04,979
France for six months. We had
taken a sabbatical, and it was
120
00:07:04,979 --> 00:07:09,359
the first time in my adult life
I hadn't been working. I worked
121
00:07:09,359 --> 00:07:12,239
all through college, and then
went straight into corporate
122
00:07:12,239 --> 00:07:16,979
research, and suddenly I had
free time. I had I was also a
123
00:07:16,979 --> 00:07:21,859
creative kid, a kind of a maker,
not, you know, my friends that
124
00:07:21,859 --> 00:07:25,879
knew me then wouldn't have said
that, but I sewed, I baked, I
125
00:07:25,939 --> 00:07:31,099
did crafts. I just I wasn't I
was a maker by inclination. And
126
00:07:31,099 --> 00:07:35,539
so when I finally had some free
time in my mid 40s, in as on a
127
00:07:35,539 --> 00:07:39,559
sabbatical in a rented house in
southern France, my husband had
128
00:07:39,559 --> 00:07:43,179
similar ambitions. Wanted,
always had wanted to write, and
129
00:07:43,179 --> 00:07:46,719
so we said, let's practice for
retirement. And you know,
130
00:07:46,719 --> 00:07:49,719
because we're going to go back
to our busy lives in six months,
131
00:07:49,719 --> 00:07:51,939
right? But we're going to
practice for retirement when we
132
00:07:51,939 --> 00:07:56,619
would someday get to do right,
creative work, right? And what
133
00:07:56,619 --> 00:08:00,159
happened is, I, I had been an
amateur photographer, so I
134
00:08:00,159 --> 00:08:05,339
crafted one of these one a day
projects that that were popular
135
00:08:05,339 --> 00:08:08,279
then still popular, because
they're extremely powerful. And
136
00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:12,539
I chose one year I was for one
year I was going to photograph
137
00:08:12,539 --> 00:08:17,339
found nature, and in a it turns
out, this very stylized way, and
138
00:08:17,339 --> 00:08:20,539
post it to a blog. And I decided
to name the blog still, as in,
139
00:08:20,539 --> 00:08:25,219
like still life photography. We
I started that on January 1. In
140
00:08:25,219 --> 00:08:28,159
my mind, it was a calendar year,
one year commitment, one year
141
00:08:28,159 --> 00:08:32,239
project. And by six months in,
the project had gotten a lot of
142
00:08:32,239 --> 00:08:36,859
attention, media attention, and
I kept going. So here I am, 12
143
00:08:36,859 --> 00:08:40,719
and a half years later, and
fourth, over 4000 images later,
144
00:08:40,719 --> 00:08:42,699
yeah, and I haven't missed a
day, that's
145
00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:44,800
Jane Clauss: a lot, and we're
gonna get into that. But I mean,
146
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:50,440
over the last 12 years, spending
so much time discovering nature
147
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,820
and taking photos for your
project, for your blog. I mean,
148
00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:59,440
I just have to, did you also
create a clone of yourself to
149
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,040
get everything else done? I
mean, you have to live life like
150
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,060
every single day.
151
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,420
Mary Jo: Life happens, that life
happens. It does happen, you
152
00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:09,480
know. And you know, in those 12
and half years, they've been
153
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,960
fairly calm years for me.
However, my dad did pass away,
154
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,940
and I'm and my mom's 88 now, and
I'm the primary for her, and
155
00:09:17,940 --> 00:09:22,220
which has meant a lot of
unexpected emergency room visits
156
00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:27,260
in the last three years. And so
life happens. And what happened
157
00:09:27,260 --> 00:09:32,420
is I devised the project so that
the minimum required to not
158
00:09:32,420 --> 00:09:36,860
break the chain was simple. So
it's found nature on a white
159
00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:42,340
background, and I can literally
be in a hospital and pick a leaf
160
00:09:42,340 --> 00:09:46,240
off of a potted plant, hold it
against a white wall, and take a
161
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,060
photo, and I haven't broken the
chain, and you're good to go,
162
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,660
and I'm good to go. So I do that
a lot sometimes. I mean, life
163
00:09:52,660 --> 00:09:56,140
happens ironically. Some of the
busiest I've ever been is since
164
00:09:56,140 --> 00:09:59,920
I launched this book in May, in
the last 12 years. I mean, I've.
165
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,320
Been crazy busy with speaking
engagements and and various
166
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,960
things. And so the last, the
last four weeks since I launched
167
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,520
my book, I've been doing a lot
of holding a potted plant leaf
168
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,560
in front of a white wall and
calling it good.
169
00:10:17,580 --> 00:10:20,660
Jane Clauss: And that's okay. I
love that you did that the using
170
00:10:20,660 --> 00:10:24,440
the white background. I mean, it
really does just single out this
171
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,680
one item, this one piece of
nature that you found for the
172
00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,580
day, but in the long run, 12
years later, here we are today.
173
00:10:31,580 --> 00:10:34,400
You're super busy on this book
tour and doing speaking events
174
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,180
take care, Mom, it's really
helped you out. Did you kind of
175
00:10:38,180 --> 00:10:41,020
foresee that the White was
because I can then do this
176
00:10:41,020 --> 00:10:44,320
anywhere, or was it because of a
stylistic photography thing that
177
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,160
you wanted to do? Oh,
178
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,220
Mary Jo: good question, because
it did. It does make the project
179
00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:51,100
easier. And yeah, one of the
reasons I haven't broken the
180
00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:55,180
chain in 12 and a half years.
But I picked a set for esthetic
181
00:10:55,180 --> 00:11:00,400
reasons. So I'm I'm a
minimalist. I like Scandinavian
182
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,900
esthetic, and I like
Scandinavian design. And so my,
183
00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:07,320
if you look at my images,
they're very graphic on bright
184
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,300
white background. It's very it's
sort of like a modern botanical
185
00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:15,060
print, if you will. You know a
modern take on a botanical
186
00:11:15,060 --> 00:11:19,380
print. So it, I chose it as an
esthetic for esthetic reasons.
187
00:11:19,860 --> 00:11:23,840
It's interesting, I learned I
was an amateur photographer and
188
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,360
not professional. And I think
that, honestly, was to my
189
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,500
advantage, because after I had
started the project, I had more
190
00:11:30,500 --> 00:11:34,160
than one professional
photographer Tell me, oh, you
191
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,860
can't photograph on a white
background. That's commercial
192
00:11:36,860 --> 00:11:39,920
photography. That's considered
commercial photography. And I'm
193
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,740
like, Okay, I didn't know. And I
do it because I like it. I also
194
00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:48,940
wanted, for me, the blog, the
experience of the blog was very
195
00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:52,960
important. So when you arrived
at the blog, I wanted a seamless
196
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,400
scroll through the unfolding
seasons. So I'm taking an image
197
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,240
a day. So if you go, there you
go. And I'm trying to be as
198
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,020
seasonal as I can. February in
Minnesota gets a little tricky.
199
00:12:04,020 --> 00:12:04,080
I
200
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,060
Jane Clauss: was going to ask
about the winter months. I
201
00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:10,380
Mary Jo: do it. But even by by
February, even on board with
202
00:12:10,380 --> 00:12:15,240
winter stems poking out of snow.
But anyway, I try to be
203
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,780
seasonal. So you is you scroll
through the blog, you should get
204
00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:23,060
a seasonal unfolding. And I
wanted the scroll to be
205
00:12:23,060 --> 00:12:27,320
seamless. And if I had like a
gray background, it's very hard
206
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,860
to match grays. So the only
thing that would allow me to be
207
00:12:30,860 --> 00:12:34,700
seamless is true, right? Or true
black, right? And so I wanted
208
00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:39,620
this. This still blogs a very
quiet corner of the internet.
209
00:12:39,620 --> 00:12:43,960
It's very calm, very quiet, look
at one thing at a time and with
210
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,200
this seamless scroll. And so it
still is to that day, the blog
211
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,820
hasn't changed at all since it
was built. A matter of fact, I
212
00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:55,120
don't keep waiting for it to
crash, because I don't. It's in
213
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,120
WordPress, and I don't know how
to fix it. If it crashes,
214
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:01,380
Unknown: everyone's going there,
because you're all over and
215
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,860
everyone wants to know about
Mary. Jo, so, yeah, you
216
00:13:04,860 --> 00:13:06,540
Jane Clauss: better watch out
for that. No, the the scroll is
217
00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:10,200
cool, because you do see the
seasons and the amount of time
218
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,220
that you put into, you know,
really this passion. And you did
219
00:13:14,220 --> 00:13:18,540
this every single day for 12
years. You made it easy. You did
220
00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:22,340
it everywhere you had to do it.
Was there ever a moment when
221
00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:25,640
you're like, I just don't have
time today, or I can't find the
222
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,900
right subject for that, for my
picture today? Or can you do a
223
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:31,580
couple days in advance?
224
00:13:32,180 --> 00:13:35,540
Mary Jo: Yeah, you know, it's
almost every week where I think
225
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,860
I don't know what to photograph.
I mean, even like, this week,
226
00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:43,960
I'm having that experience. I
it's high summer, it's June.
227
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,220
It's so lush. We've had so much
rain. It's just like a wall of
228
00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:52,720
green out there right now. And I
keep looking out the at the wall
229
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,880
of green, thinking, what, what
am I going to pick today? So so
230
00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:02,940
even even in high summer, I have
those moments. A lot of days,
231
00:14:02,940 --> 00:14:06,000
the day gets away from me. It's
the sun. I shoot with natural
232
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,700
light. So the sun is setting,
and I say, oh my goodness, I
233
00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:11,340
haven't taken a still blog
photo. And my husband laughs,
234
00:14:11,340 --> 00:14:13,800
and he says, every day, honey,
and he turns around and walks
235
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:21,860
away. So I on those days, I, you
know, I dash out. I happen to
236
00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:25,040
live on three wooded acres. I
don't think you would need to to
237
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,000
do this kind of project, but I
do. So I dash out into the yard,
238
00:14:29,420 --> 00:14:32,780
look around, and I grab
something to photograph. And the
239
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,840
the interesting thing I've
learned over the years is
240
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,180
sometimes those dashed off last
minute photos end up being some
241
00:14:40,180 --> 00:14:43,840
of the best. Yeah, right, yeah,
of course, crazy. All I'm doing
242
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,840
is not breaking the chain. I
don't care about the quality of
243
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,120
the photo so much or the
subject. I'm just, I just want
244
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,180
to make sure I don't break the
chain. It's been too long now.
245
00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:56,200
I'm not. I'm not. Jane, no, I
can't. No, you can't. No. So I
246
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,260
dash out, I grab something, I
photograph it, and sure enough,
247
00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:02,640
it's it's. Ends up being, it can
end up being one of my better
248
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,520
photos. And I think there's
something about, you know, that
249
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,540
deadline that shuts off the
inner critic. And, you know, so
250
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,260
I'm a big believer in the
everyday because, because I've
251
00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:16,920
seen it happen, right? I've seen
that even when you don't want
252
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,500
to, even when the day got away
from you, even when the sun's
253
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:23,240
about to set. If you make that
if you make that creative
254
00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:26,300
effort, you could be surprised.
So
255
00:15:26,420 --> 00:15:29,540
Jane Clauss: I love it. I always
tell people, just spend one hour
256
00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:32,120
being creative, and then I don't
care what you do the rest of the
257
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,760
day, spend 30 minutes, because
you have that sense of
258
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,260
satisfaction that you get when
you are creative. When I would
259
00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:42,460
say, when you make it yourself,
when you just let your body and
260
00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:46,060
your brain just be in flow with
wherever it goes. And I love the
261
00:15:46,060 --> 00:15:49,960
idea because you had a goal, you
had a mission, you had I'm doing
262
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,060
this. I'm not breaking the
chain. A lot of people like I'll
263
00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:54,880
do it today, but I don't have to
pick it up. So maybe this is a
264
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,640
great way for people to start
being creative. By saying I'm
265
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,780
going to do this every day for a
week, for a week, give yourself.
266
00:16:00,780 --> 00:16:04,620
Mary Jo: I, you know, those 30
day and 100 day challenges are
267
00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:07,140
still really popular, and
they're really popular because
268
00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:11,400
they work, and they work for a
whole bunch of reasons, but they
269
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,760
really do work. And you had
asked earlier about and whether
270
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,480
I work ahead, and I used to.
And, you know, the first few
271
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,480
years of the of the of the
project, I had a little, a
272
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,900
little folder on the corner of
my iMac that said, just in case,
273
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,800
right? And it had a couple
images in it that, in case the
274
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,940
day got away from me, I could
post those. What I found in, I
275
00:16:34,940 --> 00:16:39,260
think this is key too, is that
that was more disruptive than
276
00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:44,080
helpful, because it was harder
to stop and start than to just
277
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,140
commit to doing every day. I
haven't had a just in case
278
00:16:47,140 --> 00:16:51,340
folder on my desktop for
probably eight years. Wow. Yeah,
279
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,580
I work. I was right before I got
on the podcast with you, I made
280
00:16:54,580 --> 00:16:58,960
today's photo. So I find five
minutes of every day to make a
281
00:16:58,960 --> 00:16:59,620
photo,
282
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,580
Jane Clauss: and that's and you
just take the photo and you post
283
00:17:02,580 --> 00:17:03,480
it and you move on,
284
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,480
Mary Jo: yeah, I mean, I edit it
to bring the background to
285
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,860
bright white, and then at some
point before bed, I post and I
286
00:17:10,860 --> 00:17:15,240
post it and I set the timer so
it updates overnight. So yeah, I
287
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,380
mean, and that's the other key
for my specific project. I could
288
00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:23,720
break each of those little
steps, find your subject, make
289
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:28,040
your photo, edit the photo, and
post the photo into tiny little
290
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,360
increments sprinkled throughout
the day. And we all have five
291
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:36,680
minutes here, five minutes
there. We all do. And so i i
292
00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:41,740
instead of scrolling or whatever
you do when you have a five
293
00:17:41,740 --> 00:17:46,180
minute wait or downtime. I you
know, I do one of those little
294
00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:47,140
steps, and
295
00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:49,180
Jane Clauss: you make it easy on
yourself too. I love that. So
296
00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:52,900
let's give our friends an idea
of some of the photos and some
297
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,840
of the images and some of the
objects that you have captured
298
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,060
over the years. I'm going to
tell you what I saw in my
299
00:17:58,060 --> 00:18:02,220
research, okay, and then you can
add some that I missed, and
300
00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:06,900
let's see a pile of rocks,
mountains of leaves lined up,
301
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:13,140
shells, acorns, pine cones,
bird's nests, vegetables,
302
00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:19,740
flowers, animal claws, I think,
Yes, yeah, insect wings, grass,
303
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:26,540
ducklings, weeds. Is there
anything that you think is not
304
00:18:26,540 --> 00:18:30,380
beautiful enough to be on the
blog? Or, how do you make all of
305
00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:32,000
those things beautiful? What am
I missing?
306
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,560
Mary Jo: That's a good question.
So I will any found nature. So
307
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,260
nothing's off limits. I do do,
not a lot, but a fair I do do
308
00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:46,240
roadkill. So some of my most
popular images are from
309
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,840
roadkill, a coyote and a blue
jay wing.
310
00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:52,599
Jane Clauss: You put it on a
white background, then you pick
311
00:18:52,719 --> 00:18:53,619
up.
312
00:18:53,619 --> 00:18:56,679
Mary Jo: I slid my white
background underneath, yeah, and
313
00:18:56,679 --> 00:19:01,739
it's, it's, it's one of my more
popular images. Anyway, I do do
314
00:19:01,739 --> 00:19:04,679
real kill everything is
everything is a candidate. Every
315
00:19:04,679 --> 00:19:08,519
subject's a candidate. And my
criteria are It either has to be
316
00:19:08,519 --> 00:19:13,019
beautiful or it has to be
interesting. So there are some
317
00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:16,859
images I just post because
they're so interesting, they're
318
00:19:16,859 --> 00:19:20,039
not particularly beautiful. But
when I can get an image that is
319
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:23,599
both interesting and beautiful,
then I gotta then I got a
320
00:19:23,599 --> 00:19:25,159
keeper, then I got a winner.
321
00:19:25,220 --> 00:19:27,320
Jane Clauss: Have you ever had
doubles? I mean, if you get a
322
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,540
weed and you're like, Well, this
is interesting, and it's
323
00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:33,140
beautiful, and then, oh, I don't
know, 10 years down the road,
324
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,660
you're like, I'm gonna use this
week because it's interesting.
325
00:19:35,660 --> 00:19:38,420
If I don't remember what I did
last week, and even if I posted
326
00:19:38,420 --> 00:19:41,320
something on my website or any
social media I still don't
327
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,640
remember. Yeah,
328
00:19:42,820 --> 00:19:46,720
Mary Jo: I repeat subjects, and
after 12 years, yeah, so I do
329
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,860
like every there's certain
subjects because of where I am
330
00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:54,700
in Minneapolis in the Upper
Midwest, that are some of my
331
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:59,320
favorites. You know, milkweed,
milkweed pods, cattails, because
332
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,580
I happen to have. Have a big
cattail bed outside my house,
333
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:06,780
but fiddlehead ferns, for
example, I do those every
334
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:09,660
spring. I will never tire
photographing fiddlehead ferns,
335
00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:13,380
and every two year, every year
is different. So usually if I
336
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:16,140
revisit a subject, I'll try to
revisit it in a different
337
00:20:16,140 --> 00:20:19,140
season. So if I did it in
spring, I'll do it in summer or
338
00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:23,000
fall, but I will revisit
subjects, especially if they're
339
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,040
perennial favorites. Yeah, as
340
00:20:25,039 --> 00:20:27,199
Jane Clauss: I that's totally
permissible, because you're
341
00:20:27,199 --> 00:20:30,439
never going to film or
photograph them in the same way.
342
00:20:30,439 --> 00:20:33,019
They're always going to look
different. Every day
343
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:36,080
Mary Jo: is different. I could,
I literally, I could photograph
344
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,260
a matter of fact, I have, I have
tried to do this. I had a
345
00:20:39,260 --> 00:20:43,660
collaboration with Target
Corporation, and we're putting
346
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,280
this lineup of beach rocks with
stripes, you know, on a shower
347
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,800
curtain. And it the image I had
done early in the project with a
348
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,680
lesser quality camera. And
because we're going to make a
349
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,480
shower curtain which is 100
inches wide, I wanted a higher
350
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,200
resolution image. So I still had
those beach racks, that pile of
351
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,860
beach rocks, so I recreated the
image, re photograph it with a
352
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:13,260
better camera, and it never,
never, ever. I did it 50 times,
353
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:16,380
different windows, different
lighting, different times a day,
354
00:21:16,380 --> 00:21:20,360
and it was never as good as that
first photo. And I can't tell
355
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,780
you why. There was something
about the softness, the softness
356
00:21:23,780 --> 00:21:27,920
of the light at the angle. I
don't know all of it, it, they
357
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,060
were very close, but not as
inviting as that first image.
358
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:32,420
Oh,
359
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,820
Jane Clauss: fascinating. You
said you still have those beach
360
00:21:34,820 --> 00:21:37,580
rocks. So do you keep a lot of
these different objects that you
361
00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:40,300
find in nature? And does that
consider you, or does that make
362
00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:41,620
you a nature hoarder?
363
00:21:42,819 --> 00:21:46,419
Mary Jo: That's a good question.
I am not a nature hoarder. I'm
364
00:21:46,419 --> 00:21:51,579
not a hoarder. I'm a tosser by
disposition. So 99% of the
365
00:21:51,579 --> 00:21:54,159
subjects I photograph, and they
go right back outside.
366
00:21:54,219 --> 00:21:57,639
Otherwise, I mean, it's every
day, so otherwise I would I
367
00:21:57,639 --> 00:22:01,379
would be drowning, and I have
this three acres of wooded land,
368
00:22:01,379 --> 00:22:04,319
so they just go right back
outside, turn into compost.
369
00:22:04,679 --> 00:22:09,059
There is a few things I collect,
beach rocks, well, Stripe only,
370
00:22:09,059 --> 00:22:17,579
striped beach rocks, sea glass.
I do have a box of bird nests. I
371
00:22:17,579 --> 00:22:22,399
do have a box of pine cones. But
that's only because I just had a
372
00:22:22,399 --> 00:22:27,199
commission for a restaurant to
do a big pine cone. Sure,
373
00:22:27,259 --> 00:22:30,079
photos, and I don't think that
will be able to stay. It's too
374
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:33,319
big a box, and I don't want to
store it so, but I do keep
375
00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:34,759
certain collections. Yes,
376
00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:37,580
Jane Clauss: I have about a
trillion cicadas. If you'd like
377
00:22:37,580 --> 00:22:39,560
me to send you them. I actually
378
00:22:39,559 --> 00:22:41,799
Mary Jo: would. We don't have
them here in Minnesota. I mean,
379
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,759
we get a few in the summer, but
not a lot. I know you guys can,
380
00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:48,999
like, sweep them off your car
like snow, right? Sweep
381
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,280
Jane Clauss: them off the car
like snow. So I'm in Chicago. It
382
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,300
is summertime. We have cicadas.
They're dive bombing me. They're
383
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,360
all over the trees. They're all
over every single thing in my
384
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,620
backyard, even going on a walk,
I have to, like, go around. So
385
00:23:01,620 --> 00:23:02,880
if you would like some cicadas,
386
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:06,540
Mary Jo: send me a cigar box
full of cicadas.
387
00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:09,239
Jane Clauss: Yeah, I'll do it.
388
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,040
Mary Jo: I love it. I just not a
subject.
389
00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:14,519
Jane Clauss: I don't think I've
I you'd like their wings?
390
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,460
Mary Jo: I know, I think I have
photographed them because they
391
00:23:17,460 --> 00:23:20,300
have them in southern France,
not Minnesota. I mean, we do,
392
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:22,760
but you don't find them. It's
they're very few mall
393
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,400
Jane Clauss: They're driving me
crazy. So let me ask you this,
394
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,880
because I want to talk about the
book. Still the art of noticing
395
00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:36,140
every single day that's over
4000 photos. You put 275 in the
396
00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:39,080
book. How did you How could you
pick your favorites?
397
00:23:39,319 --> 00:23:43,359
Mary Jo: Yeah, that was the
hardest part. I did it two ways,
398
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,139
right? I have this out of
control portfolio with 4000
399
00:23:47,499 --> 00:23:51,159
images, like, I can't even find
stuff in it, okay? It's in it's,
400
00:23:51,159 --> 00:23:55,719
of course, I didn't know this
project. Who was gonna go on
401
00:23:55,719 --> 00:23:58,959
this. I didn't tag it. I didn't
structure it, right? It's just
402
00:23:58,959 --> 00:24:02,879
this folder full stuff. And
then, so what I did, I did, I
403
00:24:02,879 --> 00:24:05,639
did a pass through the portfolio
and said, and I had a folder
404
00:24:05,639 --> 00:24:10,319
called still book worthy, right?
I was throwing images in there
405
00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:13,319
that I thought were worthy of
being published in a book. And
406
00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:17,879
then I looked at that folder and
I saw, I thought, I don't see
407
00:24:17,879 --> 00:24:20,839
like a rhyme or reason to this
collection. They're my best
408
00:24:20,839 --> 00:24:24,139
photos, but I don't see a rhyme
or reason to them, so I
409
00:24:24,139 --> 00:24:28,519
abandoned that approach of just
taking the best photos, and then
410
00:24:28,579 --> 00:24:33,619
I went with writing my essays
first, and then picking the
411
00:24:33,619 --> 00:24:37,339
images that illustrate the
essays, and that's what ended up
412
00:24:37,339 --> 00:24:42,279
working for me. So a dozen of my
best photos didn't make it in
413
00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:45,579
the book. Because, yeah, it's
interesting. It's interesting.
414
00:24:45,699 --> 00:24:47,859
But I'm super pleased with how
the book
415
00:24:47,859 --> 00:24:50,019
Jane Clauss: came out. Maybe,
maybe there's another book in
416
00:24:50,019 --> 00:24:54,159
the works. There has to be, or a
shorter book, like the 12 that
417
00:24:54,159 --> 00:24:56,079
didn't make it. And you can
write bigger essays. There
418
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:56,620
Unknown: you go. There.
419
00:24:56,619 --> 00:24:59,019
Jane Clauss: I mean, this. Yeah,
again, you already talked about
420
00:24:59,019 --> 00:25:02,219
working with the target.
Corporation, I saw some of your
421
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,119
lettering. You would write words
with the different found
422
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,939
objects. I'm obsessed with the
one that says creativity
423
00:25:08,939 --> 00:25:13,139
because, because it's
creativity, yeah, can people
424
00:25:13,439 --> 00:25:17,159
license them from you? Can
people buy them from you?
425
00:25:17,220 --> 00:25:23,240
Mary Jo: I so I sell a lot of my
images, and I have about 100
426
00:25:24,380 --> 00:25:28,280
designers, professional
designers, or what are called
427
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,440
Art consultancies, that use my
images in their projects. And so
428
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:36,920
I get a couple requests a week
from them for three or four
429
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,660
images that they're going to put
in some clubhouse in North
430
00:25:40,660 --> 00:25:46,060
Carolina or something. So I do
sell to professionals. I don't
431
00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:50,020
regularly sell to individuals. I
will if somebody really has a
432
00:25:50,020 --> 00:25:53,920
special request, like it's for a
wedding invitation or something
433
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,100
like that, if someone really
wants it. And the only reason I
434
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:03,180
don't is the portfolio is
unwieldy, and it's, it takes a
435
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:06,360
lot of my time to do the email
back and forth. This, is this
436
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,660
the image you want? What size do
you want that? Sure, yeah. And
437
00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:14,940
so that individual sales I do. I
do rarely, but I do do if
438
00:26:14,940 --> 00:26:18,600
somebody really wants one, but I
do sell to professionals every
439
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,200
week, yeah.
440
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,160
Jane Clauss: So your hobby kind
of turned into a business. But
441
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,860
when I ask back to the book,
because I'm getting off on a
442
00:26:24,860 --> 00:26:27,020
whole business track, and I
really want to know about your
443
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:29,540
creativity, because I want to
help everybody, because
444
00:26:29,540 --> 00:26:31,940
everyone's thinking, Well, I
don't understand, like, what
445
00:26:31,940 --> 00:26:35,120
does that mean? And you know,
you have this daily practice for
446
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,660
12 years, and you put these
beautiful images in a book of
447
00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:41,740
what you discovered and what you
saw, and you talk a lot about
448
00:26:41,740 --> 00:26:44,800
the art of noticing. What does
that mean?
449
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,440
Mary Jo: Yeah, I think you know,
at some point, anyone who does
450
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,540
visual arts, any artist, whether
it's painting, graphic design,
451
00:26:55,900 --> 00:27:03,060
photography, sketching, at some
point you realize that there's a
452
00:27:03,060 --> 00:27:06,120
famous book on on learning to
draw, called drawing on the
453
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:11,220
right side of the brain, and the
it's a classic and Betty
454
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:14,340
Edwards, the author, has said,
if you can sign your name, you
455
00:27:14,340 --> 00:27:18,480
can draw, you have the technical
skill to draw, but what you have
456
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,000
to do is learn to see. And it's
the same with any of the visual
457
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,900
arts, whether it's photography
or what the visual arts
458
00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:30,140
eventually all come to the same
conclusion is learning to see,
459
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,900
learning to notice, is the the
hardest part of the creative
460
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,860
process. So it's training the
eye to see. Sure, yeah,
461
00:27:39,859 --> 00:27:41,679
Jane Clauss: it's like fashion
designers, they're putting
462
00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:45,579
together outfits, and you have
to see how that's hitting a body
463
00:27:45,579 --> 00:27:48,159
form, right? So, and some people
can see it, and some people
464
00:27:48,159 --> 00:27:51,339
can't, or, like an interior
designer, anything that you're
465
00:27:51,339 --> 00:27:53,619
you're visually putting
together,
466
00:27:53,859 --> 00:27:57,039
Mary Jo: right? It's media
Exactly, right. So people can
467
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:01,439
walk into a room an empty house,
and see, see it all. Other
468
00:28:01,439 --> 00:28:05,039
people can't. Most people can't
do that. And so, yeah, it's
469
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:08,399
learning to see. And you know,
I'm looking at a wall of green
470
00:28:08,399 --> 00:28:11,879
right now, and every day I have
to find something to photograph.
471
00:28:11,879 --> 00:28:15,839
And so learning to train the eye
to see, you know, look at that
472
00:28:15,839 --> 00:28:20,179
visual overwhelm of, you know,
this wall of green, and then
473
00:28:20,179 --> 00:28:24,259
training the eye to pick out one
or two subjects or a dozen
474
00:28:24,259 --> 00:28:29,959
subjects to make a composition
that's takes more concentration
475
00:28:29,959 --> 00:28:34,639
and well, in this my case,
presentness, right? Mindfulness?
476
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:39,439
Sure, then, you know, pulling
the shutter on the camera, the
477
00:28:39,439 --> 00:28:40,899
mindfulness
478
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,140
Jane Clauss: and presentation,
and still is the blog, and still
479
00:28:44,140 --> 00:28:47,200
is the title of the book. And
you talked about still art or
480
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,220
still images, and that's what
these are. But it's also a play
481
00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:55,840
on words to being still. Minded
still in your day, still just
482
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,720
being still. We're never still.
Our minds never stop. So has
483
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,220
your daily practice of being
still, in discovering still? Has
484
00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:09,420
that improved your creativity?
Has that lowered your stress
485
00:29:09,420 --> 00:29:13,080
level? What do you think about
being still? Why is it important
486
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,540
for all of us to learn from
that? Yeah,
487
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:22,580
Mary Jo: I think I truly believe
that I stumbled into a practice,
488
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,700
a simple practice that is turned
out to be really profound. And
489
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,420
the requirement attention,
attentiveness, to find a new
490
00:29:32,420 --> 00:29:36,980
subject every day, required me
to be so present at least for
491
00:29:36,980 --> 00:29:41,080
five minutes of every day. And
that became essentially a
492
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,800
mindfulness practice. And so the
one of the first benefits I got
493
00:29:44,980 --> 00:29:47,440
from the project, and the
reason, quite frankly, I never
494
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,320
stopped, is it turned into a
mindfulness practice that I
495
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,040
didn't want to stop. But then,
even then, it kept unfolding.
496
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,860
This project kept unfolding in
depths and depths and depths,
497
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,800
because after I, you know, I
really. Had turned into this
498
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:05,400
mindfulness practice where I had
to be present for at least part
499
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,660
of every day to find a subject.
Then, then suddenly I started to
500
00:30:09,660 --> 00:30:13,920
have this entirely new
relationship with my place, the
501
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,000
place I live, where I grew up.
Yeah, so in the good Midwestern
502
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:24,680
fashion, moved back to the place
I grew up, and so I here I am,
503
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,640
in this environment I've known
for for 50 years, and yet I was
504
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,180
discovering it anew with this
new level of height and
505
00:30:32,180 --> 00:30:36,260
detention, right? So suddenly I
call it placefulness. I have
506
00:30:36,260 --> 00:30:42,160
this nuanced now relationship
with my plates, I'm not I
507
00:30:42,220 --> 00:30:46,120
actually borrowed the term from
Jenny Odell in her best selling
508
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,460
book how to do nothing. Do you
remember that during
509
00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:50,980
Jane Clauss: Oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, exactly. She
510
00:30:50,980 --> 00:30:53,200
Mary Jo: coined the term
placefulness, and I have run
511
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,220
with it because it spoke to me
so deeply, because she was
512
00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:01,320
saying for her the Rose Garden
in Berkeley, California was her
513
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:07,260
place, and that that was her. It
became an antidote to this
514
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,280
anxiety and kind of itchy
feeling we all get when we spend
515
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,360
too much time online. And so to
spend time in this rose garden
516
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,260
became her, her antidote to that
and and she called it
517
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:21,680
playfulness. And the same thing
happened to me with this
518
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,060
project, which is just a little
bit of time in nature, being
519
00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:30,140
present, being really present,
not just relaxing in nature, but
520
00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:33,560
being present with nature. And
then getting this nuanced
521
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,480
relationship with it led to this
kind of playfulness that I, you
522
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,960
know, I don't want to, I don't
want to go all woowoo on you
523
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:41,200
here.
524
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:45,700
Jane Clauss: Let's go. I'm all
about the Woo. I love it. I
525
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:49,360
spent a week in the jungle
getting woo, woo. Let's go. So
526
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,260
Mary Jo: anyway, I felt it was
like, sort of like my expression
527
00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:57,640
is sort of an on ramp to the
sacred, I think. Yeah. So I feel
528
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,280
like this project unleashed a
whole, a profound series, sure
529
00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:03,960
of insights. Yeah,
530
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,600
Jane Clauss: it's like the
transformation from when you
531
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,620
started to this point and this
like practice that you did every
532
00:32:10,620 --> 00:32:14,160
day. And again, you could say
it's like meditation people do
533
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,340
their daily practice of yoga.
You just happen to be in, you
534
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:21,260
know, your place fullness. Just
happen to be in nature. And then
535
00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:23,780
you're sharing that with if you
didn't share with everybody, you
536
00:32:23,780 --> 00:32:27,800
would still probably have that
same transformation, mentally,
537
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,760
physically, for sure. Yeah, I
think that it's really, really
538
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,480
important to think about that,
you know, for all of us, because
539
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,440
we're so busy and we get our
itchy heads when we're online,
540
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,340
all too much, and we get
anxious, so just putting your
541
00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:45,700
feet in the ground and or
finding out what you do every
542
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:50,320
day to make you transform to the
real you, because we don't, we
543
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,480
don't like to go there.
Sometimes it's uncomfortable.
544
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,900
Mary Jo: Yeah, before we got on,
Jane and I were talking about
545
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:59,620
the Mayo Clinic, because it's
near where I live, and my
546
00:32:59,620 --> 00:33:04,380
husband just did one of these
wellness checkups there, and the
547
00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:07,860
doctor there was saying that the
research on mindfulness
548
00:33:07,860 --> 00:33:12,240
meditation is now saying that,
so when you meditate, most
549
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,660
people, it's on your breath and
or you're you're calming your
550
00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:18,960
thoughts, or you're doing a
mantra to quiet the thoughts.
551
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,760
It's all inward, focused. And
they were saying that the news
552
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,980
research is an outwardly focused
meditation might even transcend,
553
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:33,500
like the the inward focus might
be like a sub state of then the
554
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:37,460
outward focus, which is to
transcend yourself, to transcend
555
00:33:37,460 --> 00:33:41,680
the ego. And so it's
interesting, because I feel like
556
00:33:41,740 --> 00:33:47,380
my being present with nature,
what again, dumb luck or
557
00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:50,200
intuitive wisdom. Call it what
you will, but that it was an
558
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,360
outwardly focused form of
meditation. So yeah, I think I
559
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,280
stumbled into something really
powerful.
560
00:33:57,340 --> 00:33:58,960
Jane Clauss: I think you did
too, and I love that you're
561
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,820
sharing it with all of us. You
talk about the term infra
562
00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:06,480
ordinary. Yeah. Is that about
noticing
563
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,460
Mary Jo: that is coined by a
French philosopher in the 1970s
564
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,820
and it's about seeing below. So
infra means below infra
565
00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:21,380
ordinary, below the ordinary. So
it's the idea is, you know, we
566
00:34:21,380 --> 00:34:26,840
become so habituated to our
environment that we don't, we
567
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,100
stop seeing the things that are
right in front of us. So it's,
568
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:34,280
it's really funny, because the
Canadian Medical Association
569
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,000
actually has a medical term for
this, and they call it
570
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,680
refrigerator blindness. And
literally, and it's like, the
571
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,980
fridge, we have nothing to eat,
yeah? We don't have any mayo in
572
00:34:44,980 --> 00:34:48,340
the mail, like, right there in
front of your face, yeah? So
573
00:34:48,340 --> 00:34:50,920
they call it, they actually,
literally call it refrigerator
574
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,120
blindness. So this is when you
don't see something and you
575
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,960
really don't see it. Your your
brain is wired to notice the
576
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,440
differences in your.
Environment. So when things
577
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:08,040
become so habituated, so common,
sure that you stop registering
578
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,120
their existence at all. So when
I teach courses, I'm giving
579
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,760
people tips and tricks to see
below the ordinary, to re see
580
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,340
what's always been right in
front of them. And so, because
581
00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:26,720
12 years of doing this for me
now at this point, the most
582
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:31,820
exciting for me is to take the
most ordinary subject, the most
583
00:35:31,820 --> 00:35:37,100
ordinary subject, and photograph
it in a striking way, elevate
584
00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:42,400
it, and then show it to people
you know, in this elevated way,
585
00:35:42,940 --> 00:35:45,520
so that they have them see it in
a different way. Make them see
586
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,460
it anew. Make them see it at
all, right? It's the thing that
587
00:35:48,460 --> 00:35:52,600
they've been walking over on the
sidewalk or the parking lot for,
588
00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:55,660
for, you know, that they don't
even see it ever, yeah,
589
00:35:55,660 --> 00:35:57,400
Jane Clauss: because you're
just, you're just busy doing
590
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,360
other things. You're not
noticing anything. This is a big
591
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,900
thing. I lived in Arizona for
several years, and in the
592
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:06,300
beginning I'm like, wow, look at
the mountains. I mean, they're
593
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:10,620
mountains. And then after five
years, I didn't even see the
594
00:36:10,620 --> 00:36:14,160
mountains anymore. Yeah, yep,
that's so Right, yeah. I mean,
595
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,680
and you're talking about the the
little things that we would
596
00:36:16,740 --> 00:36:19,860
maybe not see in the first
place, but it is a thing. What
597
00:36:19,860 --> 00:36:23,300
is can you give us one tip on
how to see these things?
598
00:36:23,540 --> 00:36:27,980
Mary Jo: Yeah, it is. It's the
trick is very simple, but it
599
00:36:27,980 --> 00:36:31,340
works very profound. It's called
just, it's a it's I can use. I
600
00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:35,000
call it spotlighting. So it's
just giving yourself a filter.
601
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,260
It's your fill. You're using
selective attention to spotlight
602
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,820
a certain thing. So next time
you go on a walk, for example,
603
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,620
just notice the color blue. Just
if you're if you go on a walk
604
00:36:47,620 --> 00:36:51,220
around your block every evening,
say, I'm going to tell you, pick
605
00:36:51,220 --> 00:36:54,040
a color, pick any color, except
right now, don't pick green,
606
00:36:56,140 --> 00:37:00,960
orange or blue, yeah, and just
say, Okay, I'm gonna go for a
607
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,780
walk, and I'm just gonna notice
blue, and you will see, I
608
00:37:03,780 --> 00:37:07,860
guarantee you, you will see your
neighborhood with completely new
609
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:10,860
eyes. And you can do it. You
don't have to do it with sight.
610
00:37:10,860 --> 00:37:14,100
You can do it with sound, you
know, I'm only gonna listen for
611
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:17,220
birds. Yeah, yeah. And, you
know, and so that means you're
612
00:37:17,220 --> 00:37:19,800
gonna drown out all of the
traffic noise, all everything.
613
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,880
I'm just gonna listen to birds,
so just give yourself a
614
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,140
spotlight filter, and then focus
your selective attention, and it
615
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:32,120
will open up to you your
ordinary environment. And it was
616
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,700
going to try it, yeah, yeah,
you'll be surprised. It's very
617
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,380
it's really, it really works.
618
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,300
Jane Clauss: That's our
homework, friends. We all have
619
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:41,440
to, we have to do that when we
go on our walks. You talk about
620
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,920
being a former aeronautical
engineer, I worked in radio
621
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,800
forever and ever and ever. And
when I would be stuck in radio,
622
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,200
and everyone was going out for
happy hour, going to see the
623
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,900
rock show, I was like, I gotta
get blah, blah, blah. I have to
624
00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:55,960
still be on the air. And I'll be
like, I don't want to do it. And
625
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:01,860
like, well, it's not rocket
science. But wait the person who
626
00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:05,940
can say, oh, but it is rocket
science. I can't leave so as an
627
00:38:05,940 --> 00:38:11,700
aeronautical engineer, a rocket
scientist, because that career
628
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:18,480
is about design and innovation
and and learning, you know, and
629
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,320
figuring things out. Do you
think that background influenced
630
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,400
your approach to photography and
art, because there's room for
631
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,120
innovation.
632
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,460
Mary Jo: Yeah, first of all,
most mathematicians, it's well
633
00:38:31,460 --> 00:38:34,700
known that they're also very
like very good musicians. They
634
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:38,060
go hand in hand. I think it's
because they're both just
635
00:38:38,060 --> 00:38:43,000
abstract languages, music, math,
are both abstractions. And so my
636
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,240
engineering colleagues and I
worked in research was mostly
637
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:50,140
PhDs. Were some of the most
creative people. I knew for
638
00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:53,080
sure. You know, it's an
interesting thing. People are
639
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,300
saying to me quite often when
they see that aerospace
640
00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:59,380
engineering published artist,
oh, left brain, right brain. And
641
00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:02,160
I do, I do think I have that.
Here's the thing, it's sort of
642
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,560
like creativity. I think we all
have it. We all have it, I
643
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,220
should say. But at some point
early on, whether it was in
644
00:39:11,220 --> 00:39:17,040
childhood or in college, we shut
down part of it. Sure we had to
645
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,340
choose, right? I'm going to be a
creative or I'm going to be a
646
00:39:20,340 --> 00:39:24,440
engineer, or I'm and so we, I
think we all naturally have
647
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,600
those right brain, left brain
connections, but they do
648
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,300
atrophy. And I do think they do
atrophy. There's
649
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:30,980
Jane Clauss: a there's an
experiment you can do, or a
650
00:39:30,980 --> 00:39:33,860
practice, or whatever, a project
that you can do with a group,
651
00:39:33,860 --> 00:39:37,460
and you can say or with a
person. You give one group, they
652
00:39:37,460 --> 00:39:41,320
an art project or an idea or a
sentence, come up with blank let
653
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,280
your seven year old self draw
this, or let your seven year old
654
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,100
self create this. What would it
look like? What would it be? And
655
00:39:48,220 --> 00:39:52,420
then you give the same project
to a group of people, just, you
656
00:39:52,420 --> 00:39:54,880
know, take them out of their job
for a minute and ask them to do
657
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,060
this. And the seven year olds
are that mindset, and you ask
658
00:39:58,060 --> 00:40:00,720
them to be that way. They're
They're typically. Way more.
659
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:04,560
Their answers are more creative.
Their ideas are more out there.
660
00:40:04,740 --> 00:40:07,860
So you're right. I do think if
you're not practicing it, it
661
00:40:07,860 --> 00:40:11,220
does atrophy, or we put it
aside, we put it on the shelf,
662
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:13,800
and maybe we close the door, and
that's what we don't need to.
663
00:40:13,860 --> 00:40:16,380
Mary Jo: We do when we don't
need to, and we're all capable
664
00:40:16,380 --> 00:40:20,040
of it. So, but yes, if you look
at my images, you, you, you will
665
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,200
see it's very they're very
gridded, very linear. You the
666
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:29,420
aerospace engineer comes through
in my esthetic. I I say that my
667
00:40:29,420 --> 00:40:32,480
subjects have to be interesting.
For me. They're interesting when
668
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:38,120
they're when I'm blown away by,
like, engineering precision of
669
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,700
them, you know they mean, or the
or the mathematical pattern,
670
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:42,940
yeah,
671
00:40:43,780 --> 00:40:46,240
Jane Clauss: you're like, Oh,
look at that. Yeah, aspect of it
672
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,880
because it's engineering, or
it's math, or it's linear, and
673
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,000
that's how you see also, because
you are a minimalist, you like
674
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,120
things that are very, you know,
in line with perf, yeah, that's
675
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:56,200
and it all makes sense,
676
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,660
Mary Jo: and you can look at
that. It's a very specific
677
00:40:58,660 --> 00:40:59,440
esthetic, and
678
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,040
Jane Clauss: the white
background is all part, yeah,
679
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,480
yeah. What do you hope that this
project has and will do to
680
00:41:06,540 --> 00:41:10,140
inspire the people who see it?
How will you help people?
681
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,280
Mary Jo: Great question, and I
have to say, the book is doing
682
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,520
incredibly well. It went into
second printing within a week or
683
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:23,480
two of pub day. I mean, the book
is doing beyond my expectations
684
00:41:23,540 --> 00:41:28,280
by a ton, beyond my publishers
expectations. And I this is, I'm
685
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,580
not saying this to brag right
now, but I'm what I think might
686
00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:36,920
be happening. Is it like it's I
didn't write the book this way,
687
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:42,040
but I think it is becoming a
book about the creative process
688
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:47,860
that people are finding really
inspirational, and because my
689
00:41:47,860 --> 00:41:52,960
process is so simple, because I
do it every day, and I, you
690
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,040
know, like I said, I I can hold
up a potted plant leaf in front
691
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,800
of a white t shirt or a white
wall, and I'm, I haven't broken
692
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,960
the chain. And it's the
simplicity of that that is
693
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,520
people are finding really,
really, really inspirational and
694
00:42:08,580 --> 00:42:14,220
within reach for them, you know.
So I get the sense that the book
695
00:42:14,220 --> 00:42:17,940
might be turning into sort of
like one of those classic books
696
00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:21,080
on the creative process, because
it's, it's just taking on it's
697
00:42:21,140 --> 00:42:24,560
the book is taking on a life of
its own that nobody, including
698
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,820
myself, expected. Again, I think
I stumbled into a super simple
699
00:42:28,820 --> 00:42:34,580
process that this dailiness that
has really profound. It's very
700
00:42:34,580 --> 00:42:37,700
simple, and in order to make it
work, you have to keep it
701
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:40,420
simple. Like, Don't over
complicate your what you're
702
00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:43,780
going to try and do every day.
Yeah, keep it very simple.
703
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,380
Commit to not breaking the
chain. Forget about the results,
704
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:50,740
forget about the art, forget
about the quality of the drawing
705
00:42:50,740 --> 00:42:54,760
or the painting or the photo.
Just commit to not breaking the
706
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,960
chain. And I guarantee you
profound things will happen. You
707
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:04,200
know, the art will get better,
and your insights about you and
708
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,860
your eye and what you like, all
of that just comes out of the
709
00:43:07,860 --> 00:43:12,960
process when all you have to do
is not break the chain, right?
710
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,160
Just commit to not breaking just
committable. Just commit to not
711
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,720
breaking the chain, but make
sure that the minimum to not
712
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:23,120
break the chain is really
simple, because life does
713
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,780
happen, and days do get away
from you, but you're still gonna
714
00:43:26,780 --> 00:43:29,900
not break the chain on those
days you're still like, if you
715
00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:33,080
commit to making a watercolor a
day, if all you do is wet the
716
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,800
brush, dip it in a in the
pigment, and put a splotch on a
717
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,980
piece of paper, you haven't
broken the chain, and you can do
718
00:43:39,980 --> 00:43:43,300
that. And if you can be okay
with every day. Be okay with
719
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,660
Jane Clauss: if it's just a
splotch on the paper or if it's
720
00:43:46,660 --> 00:43:50,440
a full masterpiece, like, be
okay that you did not break the
721
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:55,000
change the chain. It's just
profound in all aspects of life,
722
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,840
really and truly, like, you can
live better creatively in so
723
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,560
many ways. Which brings us full
circle. Right back to the very
724
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,560
first question, and what does
creativity mean to you? And you
725
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,620
said, it's everything, it's
everywhere, it's
726
00:44:07,620 --> 00:44:10,200
Mary Jo: everywhere. We're all
creative. Yeah, we all have an
727
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,020
imagination. If, I mean, if
you're alive and living, you're
728
00:44:13,020 --> 00:44:15,600
creative, right? You're you've
created your life, you're we're
729
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:16,920
all creative. Everything
730
00:44:16,980 --> 00:44:20,300
Jane Clauss: about it, I mean, I
am so inspired right now. One
731
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:24,320
last thing, what makes you smile
the most when you wake up in the
732
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:24,740
morning?
733
00:44:25,460 --> 00:44:32,840
Mary Jo: Ah, good question. Um,
a clear calendar. I'll tell you.
734
00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:36,980
I still, I still, I when I wake
up in the morning, I don't know
735
00:44:36,980 --> 00:44:40,280
what I'm going to photograph,
but if I find a subject, so
736
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,420
every day is kind of like a
treasure hunt for me. If I find
737
00:44:43,420 --> 00:44:48,880
a subject that I just know is
gonna be like, really a great
738
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,660
photo, and then I bring it home,
I do my little simple setup
739
00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:56,080
under the skylights in the
kitchen, and I look at that
740
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,920
thing through the viewfinder
that puts a smile on my face.
741
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,620
Still to this day, every day,
742
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,500
Jane Clauss: I love that. I love
it. I'm going to be thinking of
743
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:07,320
you now when I take my walk out
in nature, and there you go.
744
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,020
Tried to find things that I
think that Mary Jo would like.
745
00:45:10,020 --> 00:45:14,700
Okay, the book is still the art
of noticing everybody needs to
746
00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:19,200
buy a copy. Order your copy now,
get two, because you'll lose one
747
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,440
or you're going to want to give
gift one. That's
748
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,600
Mary Jo: what that's what a lot
of people are doing. Of course,
749
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:23,780
it's
750
00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:25,820
Jane Clauss: a beautiful book.
Tell everybody where we can get
751
00:45:25,820 --> 00:45:27,200
it. Everywhere books are sold by
752
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,020
Mary Jo: publishers. Biden, you
can buy from the publisher. It's
753
00:45:30,020 --> 00:45:33,080
on Amazon, literally worldwide.
Everywhere books are sold, it's
754
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,440
in a lot of museum shops and a
lot of gift in Home Stores.
755
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,020
Jane Clauss: Beautiful. I'm so
happy and proud of you, and we
756
00:45:39,020 --> 00:45:43,780
just met. So that's a lot.
Thanks, Jane. If people want to
757
00:45:43,780 --> 00:45:46,840
find you, follow you on social
media, go to your website. What
758
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,400
are all those places? Okay,
759
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,160
Mary Jo: the blog is called
still. Stillblog.net. And
760
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,500
because I've been doing this
every day for 12 and a half
761
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:57,640
years, if you just type in Mary,
Jo, and still it will be all me,
762
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,620
me and my images. And the only
place I'm active on social is
763
00:46:01,620 --> 00:46:04,500
Instagram, and there I'm under
Mary Jo Hoffman,
764
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,000
Jane Clauss: still the art of
noticing artist, photographer,
765
00:46:09,060 --> 00:46:13,680
author, Mary Jo Hoffman, thank
you so much for joining us on
766
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,240
creative living. Thanks,
767
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:17,760
Mary Jo: Jane. This was really
fun. I've really, really enjoyed
768
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:18,120
this.
769
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:22,760
VO: Live better creatively for
more inspiration, visit Jane
770
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,520
clauss.com thank you for
listening. You.