Ep02 - Making A Guerilla Musicals

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I need to find a time to go down, to
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a studio space and like, actually
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practice because I haven't
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practiced singing in a very
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longer than I would like.
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I don't think I've ever.
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Just mostly because I live with three other people
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now. I never have the apartment
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to myself.
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Have I ever heard you sing?
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I don't know.
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Did you sing'good?
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I am good.
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Did ever. Did you sing in that, production that.
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No, that was a straight play.
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That's what I thought. Okay. I don't think I've ever heard you
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sing.
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Well, you're not done right now.
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I was about to say that's not a current request.
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So today I am talking with
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Lesley, who is the, person who put together
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the Fish Queen show that Julia was in.
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Oh, yeah.
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They basically did this musical in a gorilla context
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where it was just sort of a. They had the right
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community structure, they had the right environment, and they just
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sort of made it happen. And it's got a little bit of a
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grassroots thing going. So I'm talking to her
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about the community aspects, hoping to
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like, learn how much intention was
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involved in getting the ball rolling. See
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if there's something
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repeatable or informative enough that
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someone else could sort of drive a project in this direction.
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That sounds really cool. I think it's
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helpful information to have, and I'm always interested in learning
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how other theater people make their projects
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happen.
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So what or like, how would you choose to
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pick her brain on pop up
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shows? Self organized community
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collaborations? What itches your brain on
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that stuff?
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On a very personal level, I'm
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curious about from a more just like general theater
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practitioner perspective.
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Just the logistics of it fascinate me of
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fitting all of those pieces together in a way
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that really allows the final project
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to shine. Kind of a duck
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on the water situation. I want to
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know how hard they were paddling to make it look so
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smooth.
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You know, you said duck on the water and I had no idea what that meant
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for a second. But it turns out I have heard that before,
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just in a very different context.
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It's a thing. I didn't make it up.
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And now that we've had that fun interlude,
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you go get caffeinated. I will hide me over to the
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corner.
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Neat. Talk to you in about half hour.
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Sounds good.
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Hey, Lesley, Good to see you.
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Hey, Griffin, how are you? Thanks for having me on.
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I mean, I'm doing pretty well, but.
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You, you have been very busy
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with their u. surprise musical
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outburst.
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Yeah, it was sort of a surprise. you're
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referring to the fish Queen of the Goanas Canal, which was
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my big, musical project this year.
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So that's definitely what I'd love
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to unpack here. How did
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you get into doing,
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essentially a gorilla musical?
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People are gonna hear me talking about musical theater
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development and you're gonna think like, oh, workshops. And
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I had done that. The more professional
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and gotten, disillusioned would be an
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understatement. I found it, very
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tedious and not really conducive to
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creating great creative work because it seemed
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to all be targeted around how can you get the most money. And
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I don't feel that those people always know
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what is the best. And the thing with musical theater too is
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there's. It's incredibly low volume.
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there are like 40 houses on Broadway. Most of them do
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not turn over year to year because a lot of them have a show
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like Lion King or Aladdin or Hamilton
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that is not going to turn over realistically in the
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next foreseeable future. So.
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Right.
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there's just like, not a lot of churn. Whereas in a
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movie business, you know, even Hollywood is falling apart now,
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obviously, but even there, there is still
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like, churn and demand and like Netflix has to put out new titles and
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shit. Not so with your business, there's really,
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it's like tent poled by
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this huge tourist industry that does
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not actually need that much turnover.
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Yeah.
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So there's just like, not a lot of innovation happening in
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the space. I mean, I think there is at ground level,
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of course, but you're not gonna see it if you're just like
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going to 42nd street and being like, what's the new hip
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thing?
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M. Yeah, or let's go see Lion King for the fifth time,
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like we do every year.
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Yeah. It's the circle of life and it lives in
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you.
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Okay. So where did you
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start out? Were you. What were
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you doing before this?
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I went to the NYU program
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for writing musical theater for grad school
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and came, out with a really strong education
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in crafting proper
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narrative musical theater, I would say.
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And, worked on a project called Medusa for about seven
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or eight years. That was my thesis project,
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with my collaborator named Rachel Dean, and
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we still hope that will come to fruition someday.
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But, clearly something
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changed to take you away from that
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more traditional,
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Traditional, traditional approach.
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So this was sort of my try at, well, what do
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I do if I don't give a fuck about the system? Like,
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I just put it up in my backyard, throw up
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flyers, see what happens there?
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and I know no shade to the
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earlier stuff, but like this was so much more
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fun. It was so much more gratifying. It was like
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I'm not working with random people. And again, no shade to
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the random people who I ended up working with before. But
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but. But just to take it back, me and my roommates had been running something
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called the Guan Salon, which was gonn.
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Ask you to mention actually that's.
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It's where we got sort of a talent pool for the
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musical.
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Right.
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I was sort of running or hosting that m
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open mic which was the. The Guanus
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Salon. So we just had friends over to our backyard. This is the
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house we were getting kicked out of. Right. And so when it came
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time to try and put together all these songs I'd
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written about Goanus, as you alluded to there, they weren't really
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connected in any sort of a plot yet.
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but I had all these friends who had been coming over to the
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salons and many of them are musical theater performers or
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otherwise. Songwriters, singers and actors.
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Just ask basically who was around for one weekend
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in July and we would just do it. And
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my partner Ri, who was also my roommate
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created the flyer design and we just posted them up
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around the Guwanas Canal basically. I mean we invited
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friends but we really wanted it to be a neighborhood
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thing. Like come here about this
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open sewer that you've been walking by
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every day. This, the Guwana Salon was already sort of
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a community of really had nothing
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to do with money. This is another big thing is like I
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was able to pay all the actors and musicians for the
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various Goanus Fish Queen shows.
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Not as much as they deserve, but I knew that I
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had buy in from all these folks because they had all been
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coming to the salons and I knew these are just all
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people who want to share art together. And
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you know, obviously we all got to make a buck but like that's
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a secondary priority to can we all
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come together as community and express something
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that you figured out a.
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Way to like have that po less around you in
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that way is amazing.
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There was a thing that used to exist.
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I don't think it's still there. I haven't been able to confirm this.
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Lately, but it's come up in my head a few times. In
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Boston, I think near the.
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Corner of Mass AV and Columbus av.
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There was a building called the Cloud Club.
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it was a big five story.
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I think building that was meant to be like a
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multifam Family, thing, and it was owned
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by a guy called Lee Barroon.
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Lee passed away, in
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1:24 and I haven't really seen them
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do much since then. There hasn't been at least any
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announcements of any events that I'GOT wind of. But
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they forever hosted something,
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events called the Lost Marble
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Salon. And similar to what you were doing with the
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Guwana Salon, they were doing backyard,
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shows as well as basement shows. And they had
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this beautiful garden, that they would do the backyard showose
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in. But as far as I understand it,
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it was a living, working
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situation with the artists where he would
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rent rooms to them
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for super low cost, under
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the expectation, I don't know if it was a strict
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expectation, but that they would
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collaborate on like bigger showcases they could sell tickets to.
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And that's kind of how they offset the costs of
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living. But the place was gorgeous.
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And on the top floor
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there's a tree
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that starts at the, on that floor and goes
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up into this dome
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like treehouse thing that grows out of the
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roof and allows you to just like see over the top of everything
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else in the area. It was a fucking
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amazing view. They had this whole system set up to
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build a community, to
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introduce the outside community
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to the community of artists
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and give them all a place to sort of
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interact and learn how to collaborate and
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absorb each other's
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techniques and styles and
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modes of operating was. It was absolutely
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amazing.
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Yeah, I think we need all.
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It was the kind of thing that I always aspired to and always felt
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like, why isn't anyone doing this? And you know, you get to
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a point with, with having that dream where you're just like,
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well, I could do it. I have a backyard.
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and I can't encourage it enough. It is the best thing I ever
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did. and it lives like so low effort. You know, this is like
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once a month and a week or two before
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I post on my Instagram story, who wants to come over
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and play music?
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this is New York City. You know, there's lot
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of people really want that opportunity. They're gonna be so
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grateful. You know, people brought booze over. I
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barely had to provide shit. It was great.
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When I went to the first one, those was one of my favorite things that I walked in knowing
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nothing. And then I'm just like, people are bringing like
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pass around snacks that everyone like just walked in with. I'm like, this
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is caught. This is amazing. This is fucking great.
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Yeah. So highly encourage that. If you're listening and you have A
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backyard. What's holding you back, my friend?
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And it doesn't have to be once a month. Do it every three months. Do it what? You know,
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whatever's sustainable for you. but invite me.
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That's the most important thing.
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That is the most important thing. And I'll show up if I'm
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in town, which, as you found out, happens a lot more than I
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would expect.
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Griffin is always in town, so, it's always gonna
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work.
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So let's get into Fish Queen.
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I know it's evolved,
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but what's the narrative to this musical?
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If I was to say there was sort of a story to this
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show, it sort of follows like a friend group
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that is, you know, in a complicated way. We are
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gentrifiers because, this
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was an old Italian neighborhood, basically, and we
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were renting from these old Italian landlords.
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but we are also getting drenched, fried out, because we're like,
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you know, downwardly mobile
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artists, and we're being replaced by,
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upwardly mobile yuckpies. We're
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sort of a middle ground there. Go onus, of course, has been
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a spot for not only gentrification, but
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colonization, if you go back far enough. and the
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Lenape tribes that were pushed out of the exact
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spot that we are in.
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Yep.
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so we wanted to talk about that and that history.
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We even. And this is really
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important to me, really felt
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insane to be in the year 2024 talking
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about gentrification and displacement while the ultimate
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displacement is happening, overseas in Gaza. So,
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yeah, to incorporate that in a
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way in the show. which I did.
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Love how in every one of the shows that I got to see, like,
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youys made a point of getting some charity work out of
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it and spending. Spending
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significant time in the shows to try to highlight that and get some
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help sent over. Yeah, it was always amazing.
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Yeah. And this has been a
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controversial. And it annoys me. That's controversial
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thing for, the community because there are some folks
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who, I don't know, sort of distaste or get
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discomfort with conflating this
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stuff that's happening in Gowans with what's happening in
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Gaza. and I hear that because on scale, they're
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completely, completely different. It is not,
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because ideologically, to me, it's the same
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basic principle, which is that, like, you
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shouldn't live here because I, the more powerful rich
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person, have decided. It's hard to
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explain to folks if you're not really bought in
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on colonization as a narrative,
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as a way of understanding history. I won't
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spoil for people who might come to see the show, the way those things
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connect. And in fact, that's one of the most m important parts
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of what we're trying to develop with the
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show is to m make that connection even
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clearer and easily readable to
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audience members. But it's also funny. You know, there's
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like, well, one of.
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The things that I really loved, I
305
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was there for that first, salon pop
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up performance because of an invitation from
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Julia. So even though I wasn't the intended community
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target, that is how I kind of
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tripped over all this. I like watching how
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you've developed it from like, here's a really
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loose, easy premise to tie these stories together to,
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okay, let's ground and tie these stories together.
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but seeing how it went from like the narrative thread
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tying it together was at that point heavily
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more a sort of tongue in cheek news
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report system of like a bunch of
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reporters all named John, passing the story around to
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each other at different levels. And now like. And the,
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I think maybe the fourth show, third show I
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saw, with the iteration where like, it was a lot more
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like, this is now rooted with a household that
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is trying to like, navigate this, which became a lot
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more previleget of a concept.
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You know, you, you could, you can speak to this or
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not of how much of a plot is actually in there.
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I mean, yeah, but we both know
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the story is being grown around other
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motives and messaging that you're trying
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to feed an audience.
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So what's the path that
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you grew into a musical?
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I and my roommates were living in
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Guwans, Brooklyn, which is a small
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little pocket of Brooklyn, but it is actually the first
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place the Dutch landed. It was one of the first places in New
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York that was colonized in
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1626 or thereabouts.
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And, now it's the home m of a canal which is
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heavily polluted. Some say it's the most toxic
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waterway in the United States. I am one of those people
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because you can't really. There's no really real
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way to say what's the most toxic because of
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course all toxins are sort of different and
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the are different. So you're kind of comparing apples and oranges.
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But I feel that, this is America and
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we're number one. Okay, we're number one in
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Pollutionwana Canal, baby.
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so I had lived there on and off for about eight
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years and had been on a stretch for about
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four years with my friends. And,
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our landlords were kicking us out. They were
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selling the neighborhood is becoming not just
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gentrified but basically a new term called
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hyperenstrification has
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emergedly to talk
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about what's happening in Brooklyn. But especially places like
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Gowanus right now where It is happening
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so breakneck fast. It's
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ridiculous. so the entire neighborhood is being
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bulldozed to.
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What was gonna ask is that when they like basically like
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force via construction and everything like
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restructuring the entire era as opposed to like.
364
00:16:25,926 --> 00:16:28,718
Yeah there was. Exactly there was a
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massive rezone just a couple years ago.
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spearheaded by one Brad Lander who
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our listeners may not know about right now but is they. They
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will soon because he's going to be one of the major mayoral
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candidates going after Eric Adams
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job. This, this Brad Lander
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fellow was the guan city councilman
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and he pushed through this rezoning. and of course
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nothing is wrong with building housing. We
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obviously have a massive homelessness crisis
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in this country. But the problem with building it on the Gowans
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Canal or right around There is this
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massive pollution problem. So this was like the
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industrial center of Brooklyn
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and indeed all of New York. It powered a lot of New
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York for about a hundred years from the late
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1800s into the 1950s or so.
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So there's just a ton of coal tar
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and other cancerous waste just sitting right under the
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surface. Build up the canal. The
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00:17:25,988 --> 00:17:28,940
canal is also full of raw sewage because every time it
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00:17:28,972 --> 00:17:31,757
rains we don't have a proper sewage system.
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This is, this is'the thing I know.
388
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About the musical that like that's what.
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00:17:35,213 --> 00:17:38,030
I learned most features heavily in the musical. because the
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00:17:38,062 --> 00:17:40,830
sewage is. This is a technological problem we
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00:17:40,862 --> 00:17:43,766
solved as humans in the middle Ages. But for
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some reason they haven't figured it out for
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2025 Brooklyn. so every time it
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00:17:49,246 --> 00:17:52,006
rains even like a quarter inch of rain will
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cause our. What's called the combined sewer
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00:17:55,126 --> 00:17:58,022
overflow. And we walk by it. You know
397
00:17:58,038 --> 00:18:00,822
it's just. This is just a res residential area and
398
00:18:00,838 --> 00:18:03,326
they're building 20,000 to 40,000
399
00:18:03,470 --> 00:18:06,380
new not new apartments. But that's,
400
00:18:06,412 --> 00:18:09,388
that's going to be the population change. Like 40,000 people are going
401
00:18:09,396 --> 00:18:12,356
to be moving. I guans in the next couple years. It's already, it's already
402
00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:14,068
fully underwaye.
403
00:18:14,156 --> 00:18:16,108
I remember seeing the construction going on.
404
00:18:16,236 --> 00:18:19,188
It's crazy. You just walk around there and it changes every single day.
405
00:18:19,236 --> 00:18:22,196
But we were getting kicked out of our place by our landlords because they're trying
406
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:25,036
to sell. So I had all these songs I had Been writing
407
00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,620
over the years of living near the Guanas
408
00:18:27,652 --> 00:18:30,428
Canal. And I'm a musical theater
409
00:18:30,476 --> 00:18:33,356
writer and I thought, well, I'd like to do this while
410
00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:34,584
I still live here.
411
00:18:35,084 --> 00:18:37,868
So one of the things I want to touch on specifically
412
00:18:37,916 --> 00:18:40,676
because I have been doing something with this. But you have done
413
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:43,476
the musical version of it where you did have all
414
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:46,486
these smaller, pieces that you had worked on over period of
415
00:18:46,510 --> 00:18:49,486
time. And then you found the running theme and
416
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:50,834
found a way to bring them together.
417
00:18:51,344 --> 00:18:54,288
I love that idea. I have a master doc of all
418
00:18:54,336 --> 00:18:56,728
the songs I've ever written. Basically all the completed
419
00:18:56,776 --> 00:18:57,352
lyrics.
420
00:18:57,448 --> 00:18:58,640
Oh, that's amazing.
421
00:18:58,832 --> 00:19:01,806
So I use that and some of the
422
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:04,790
Fish Queen things were definitely plucked out of there. I will
423
00:19:04,822 --> 00:19:07,686
say it wasn't totally random. Like I knew for a couple years
424
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:10,476
I want to do something about Gowana. So I'm gonna
425
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:12,944
like slightly angle my.
426
00:19:13,364 --> 00:19:13,999
That ah.
427
00:19:14,052 --> 00:19:15,324
Soft grw in the background.
428
00:19:15,404 --> 00:19:15,892
Slowly.
429
00:19:15,988 --> 00:19:18,740
Yeah, yeah, Slowly angling myself that
430
00:19:18,772 --> 00:19:21,468
way. But I mean still, still today I'm
431
00:19:21,516 --> 00:19:24,316
writing songs and I'm going over for a work session
432
00:19:24,380 --> 00:19:27,332
with a friend today to try and work through u. in
433
00:19:27,348 --> 00:19:30,212
fact, we're going to try and add a rap to Fish Queen. You heard it
434
00:19:30,228 --> 00:19:33,146
here first, folks. if it doesn't. If it doesn't.
435
00:19:33,210 --> 00:19:36,055
Doesn't end up working, then, whatever, you know. But you got to try
436
00:19:36,087 --> 00:19:39,071
shit. This might be a good way for me to segue
437
00:19:39,135 --> 00:19:42,103
into what I think is my way in,
438
00:19:42,191 --> 00:19:44,459
I guess artistically. And that is
439
00:19:44,959 --> 00:19:47,775
you can already sort of pick this up. I think what I'm talking about with fifth
440
00:19:47,807 --> 00:19:50,687
Queen. But like we were talking about, maybe there's
441
00:19:50,703 --> 00:19:53,687
a spectrum of hobbyist to
442
00:19:53,823 --> 00:19:56,823
jobist, I guess, in the art
443
00:19:56,871 --> 00:19:58,497
world. And I feel like all the.
444
00:19:58,513 --> 00:20:01,265
Conversations I'm having are gonna like, hit this at some point because that
445
00:20:01,297 --> 00:20:04,089
is always this weird game that all of us are playing in the creative
446
00:20:04,129 --> 00:20:04,865
fields.
447
00:20:05,057 --> 00:20:07,841
Yeah. And I would sort of postulate that instead of
448
00:20:07,905 --> 00:20:10,809
just a binary spectrum, it
449
00:20:10,849 --> 00:20:13,513
might be a triangle and the
450
00:20:13,561 --> 00:20:16,447
other pin being, you know,
451
00:20:16,543 --> 00:20:19,335
art for social change, art for political cause
452
00:20:19,487 --> 00:20:22,349
or thereabouts. And that's something I'm very
453
00:20:22,389 --> 00:20:25,301
passionate about. I grew up in Washington DCS and my parents were
454
00:20:25,325 --> 00:20:28,237
both in politics. So I. Oh yeah. So I
455
00:20:28,293 --> 00:20:31,146
sort of have that, thrust to my life
456
00:20:31,210 --> 00:20:34,200
and my interests that way. But, yeah, I
457
00:20:34,232 --> 00:20:37,160
really. Especially given that we're.
458
00:20:37,312 --> 00:20:40,240
We're living in a time of ascendant fascism and I think
459
00:20:40,272 --> 00:20:43,008
it's irresponsible to pursue a life
460
00:20:43,096 --> 00:20:45,848
of art and not Engage
461
00:20:45,936 --> 00:20:48,832
in the world in that way. Yeah, I
462
00:20:48,848 --> 00:20:51,648
mean, responsibilitym responsibility,
463
00:20:51,736 --> 00:20:54,680
who cares? You know, you don't have to take it from me.
464
00:20:54,712 --> 00:20:57,500
I just think, like, feel strongly that there is
465
00:20:57,532 --> 00:21:00,057
a, existentially
466
00:21:00,233 --> 00:21:03,129
good, fulfilling thing about creating
467
00:21:03,169 --> 00:21:03,793
art and just.
468
00:21:03,881 --> 00:21:06,713
But I do think that even if you're not, if
469
00:21:06,801 --> 00:21:09,761
you're making art without that, you're still trying to
470
00:21:09,785 --> 00:21:12,457
stimulate some sort of exploration or response from the
471
00:21:12,473 --> 00:21:15,441
viewer. Throwing blind pebbles versus like trying to
472
00:21:15,465 --> 00:21:17,473
push the water to splash it at.
473
00:21:17,481 --> 00:21:19,233
A specific thing to see what happens.
474
00:21:19,401 --> 00:21:21,094
Absolutely. I think, I think,
475
00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:24,099
trying to be apolitical
476
00:21:24,759 --> 00:21:27,721
in any time, is one of the most political things you can
477
00:21:27,745 --> 00:21:28,025
do.
478
00:21:28,097 --> 00:21:30,817
I was gonna say, I'm like, I have no choice. It's almost impossible.
479
00:21:30,873 --> 00:21:33,753
Yeah, your work is political. If you're listening to this, if
480
00:21:33,761 --> 00:21:36,121
you're making art, it is political art.
481
00:21:36,305 --> 00:21:37,617
So you may as well try to.
482
00:21:37,633 --> 00:21:38,617
Be mindful of that.
483
00:21:38,713 --> 00:21:41,229
You people make it good and correct.
484
00:21:44,124 --> 00:21:46,951
but that's real for me. And when I
485
00:21:46,975 --> 00:21:49,613
say good and correct, I'm being little bit
486
00:21:49,661 --> 00:21:52,549
glib. One of the things that's held me
487
00:21:52,589 --> 00:21:55,501
back a little bit, but I almost don't mean hold me
488
00:21:55,525 --> 00:21:58,349
back in a bad way. I think maybe it's good to hold yourself
489
00:21:58,389 --> 00:22:00,169
back if this is the case. Like
490
00:22:00,749 --> 00:22:03,574
I've you know,
491
00:22:03,614 --> 00:22:06,518
even with Fish Queen at this point, I could have put out the music
492
00:22:06,566 --> 00:22:09,446
already. I could have tried to make it go viral on Tik
493
00:22:09,470 --> 00:22:12,254
Toc, try to do all these things. But I am sort of asking
494
00:22:12,294 --> 00:22:14,978
myself, well, is this the right, is this right
495
00:22:15,026 --> 00:22:18,024
yet? You know, is this, So I think there's an amount of holding
496
00:22:18,064 --> 00:22:21,044
back that can be helpful if you're still
497
00:22:21,584 --> 00:22:24,560
analyzing the situation, if you're still trying to make
498
00:22:24,632 --> 00:22:27,480
crafted into the best argument. And I do think that Fish Queen
499
00:22:27,512 --> 00:22:30,341
makes capital A arguments and so
500
00:22:30,365 --> 00:22:33,221
therefore I want them to be. I want to come correct with them. I don't want to just
501
00:22:33,245 --> 00:22:35,861
like throw out the bullshit. It's one thing to throw out the bullshit in your
502
00:22:35,885 --> 00:22:38,813
backyard or the coee shop or whatever,
503
00:22:38,861 --> 00:22:41,634
but, I do think it's important to
504
00:22:42,134 --> 00:22:44,950
make sure this analysis is rigorous.
505
00:22:45,022 --> 00:22:47,956
And I'm seeing where that takes
506
00:22:47,980 --> 00:22:48,308
me.
507
00:22:48,396 --> 00:22:51,104
There's a great lecture that John Cleese did
508
00:22:51,444 --> 00:22:54,100
where he was going into why
509
00:22:54,212 --> 00:22:57,164
he ended up with better pitched ideas
510
00:22:57,244 --> 00:22:59,924
while working on Mon Python with his collaborators for that.
511
00:23:00,044 --> 00:23:02,828
And he's like, we'd have a deadline for Wednesday,
512
00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:05,654
on Monday we both have an idea.
513
00:23:05,804 --> 00:23:08,442
And then they would turn the idea in and I would be
514
00:23:08,458 --> 00:23:11,282
like, this is good. But I'm going to sit on it. Being
515
00:23:11,338 --> 00:23:14,234
uncomfortable with that. Like, I'm not quite done yet,
516
00:23:14,274 --> 00:23:16,818
but I have something to fall back on. And then by the end of
517
00:23:16,866 --> 00:23:19,778
Wednesday, I'd have a better idea than the one I started with because I
518
00:23:19,786 --> 00:23:22,682
was still playing with it longer. And I feel like you're in that phase where you're
519
00:23:22,698 --> 00:23:25,498
like, I could just give this now and it would be
520
00:23:25,586 --> 00:23:28,386
something. But if you let it stew a
521
00:23:28,410 --> 00:23:31,362
little longer, like, as long as you know that there's
522
00:23:31,378 --> 00:23:33,894
a point where you have to pull the trigger, like, you're just
523
00:23:34,324 --> 00:23:37,244
giving your brain more time to play, is just going to create more connections
524
00:23:37,284 --> 00:23:39,908
and more options for knowing
525
00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:42,852
what's interesting in how you push it.
526
00:23:43,028 --> 00:23:45,612
I love that and I love Monty Python. So
527
00:23:45,748 --> 00:23:48,673
that's, well heard. I would say that
528
00:23:48,729 --> 00:23:51,619
the, having the deadline is very important in that way.
529
00:23:51,707 --> 00:23:54,275
Like, would also put that very hard on there.
530
00:23:54,395 --> 00:23:57,195
Yeah, I wouldn't be able to do what I'm saying. And they
531
00:23:57,235 --> 00:24:00,137
certainly probably wouldn't either if you didn't have the
532
00:24:00,161 --> 00:24:03,105
deadline. In my case, I have like, a producer
533
00:24:03,185 --> 00:24:06,065
and a bunch of collaborators who are asking me constantly, what's next
534
00:24:06,105 --> 00:24:07,645
with Fish Queen? And that is
535
00:24:08,345 --> 00:24:11,065
helph. My God. Having that is.
536
00:24:11,185 --> 00:24:13,794
Is life and death. I mean, it's night and
537
00:24:13,818 --> 00:24:16,669
day, compared to trying to pursue something on your own.
538
00:24:16,733 --> 00:24:18,973
So whenever possible, I would say get those
539
00:24:19,005 --> 00:24:21,413
collaborators, get them invested.
540
00:24:21,605 --> 00:24:24,445
And of course, that, that means you might have to make compromises
541
00:24:24,541 --> 00:24:27,464
to make it really, possible to
542
00:24:27,488 --> 00:24:29,642
have everyone on, the same page.
543
00:24:29,757 --> 00:24:31,116
but you're usually getting a value.
544
00:24:31,164 --> 00:24:33,924
Add by having them involved. And if you tried to push it through on a
545
00:24:33,948 --> 00:24:36,340
specific thing, that is only the ideas that you thought of.
546
00:24:36,356 --> 00:24:37,372
As the first pass.
547
00:24:37,532 --> 00:24:39,820
Not just a value add, my man. It's a value
548
00:24:39,876 --> 00:24:42,332
multiplier. You know, multiplier.
549
00:24:42,452 --> 00:24:43,204
Oh, that's.
550
00:24:43,228 --> 00:24:44,432
So you're right.
551
00:24:44,972 --> 00:24:47,900
Yeah. Ca. Because if you're. Okay, well, I have to.
552
00:24:47,996 --> 00:24:50,924
I have to take away 25% of how hard I was
553
00:24:50,948 --> 00:24:53,762
going toa go because I want Sarah to be
554
00:24:53,802 --> 00:24:56,674
involved, and Sarah doesn't want that 25%.
555
00:24:56,778 --> 00:24:59,698
But Sarah doubles my shit, so. And
556
00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:02,746
Sarah means that I get everything done. By the way, I
557
00:25:02,754 --> 00:25:05,458
don't know anyone named Sarah, and I would never work with someone named
558
00:25:05,490 --> 00:25:08,418
Sarah. If your name is Sarah, it's
559
00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:09,022
over.
560
00:25:09,322 --> 00:25:12,314
Does that include both the J, ns and the a
561
00:25:12,338 --> 00:25:14,514
or ns in H also? Is it all Sarah?
562
00:25:14,698 --> 00:25:17,514
No, only the H is. I don't fuck with bearrow with an
563
00:25:17,538 --> 00:25:18,674
H. That's what my thought.
564
00:25:18,698 --> 00:25:19,782
I Just wantna make sure.
565
00:25:20,172 --> 00:25:21,867
I just wanted to use a random name.
566
00:25:21,867 --> 00:25:23,342
no, but you know what I mean.
567
00:25:23,382 --> 00:25:26,334
Like, the multiplier concept helps me because I'm
568
00:25:26,358 --> 00:25:28,958
like, okay, yes, I can make this
569
00:25:28,990 --> 00:25:31,814
compromise. It is okay, because. And
570
00:25:31,838 --> 00:25:34,718
that, that is something that took me 10 years to learn. Because
571
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:37,686
in other projects I've done, I'd just be like,
572
00:25:37,734 --> 00:25:40,582
no, it has to be my way. I can't. And then, and then you'd lose
573
00:25:40,622 --> 00:25:43,614
collaborators and then you, end
574
00:25:43,638 --> 00:25:46,253
up, whatever the opposite of multiplier is, you
575
00:25:46,277 --> 00:25:48,271
know, divider.
576
00:25:48,971 --> 00:25:51,651
so keeping the community together
577
00:25:51,771 --> 00:25:52,871
is really important.
578
00:25:53,611 --> 00:25:56,611
Like, I've done that. I've been doing a lot of consulting for tech
579
00:25:56,651 --> 00:25:57,195
startups.
580
00:25:57,283 --> 00:25:58,595
The biggest problem I see with a.
581
00:25:58,603 --> 00:26:01,603
Lot of projects where they don't work is, is because the
582
00:26:01,627 --> 00:26:04,499
person in charge, they try to control everything,
583
00:26:04,595 --> 00:26:07,499
which at which point, if you keep trying to, like,
584
00:26:07,555 --> 00:26:10,451
correct their movements, you're not going to get anything nearly as
585
00:26:10,491 --> 00:26:13,249
interesting as you would if you just let them be them in your
586
00:26:13,305 --> 00:26:14,101
playground.
587
00:26:14,641 --> 00:26:17,497
Yeah, I agree with that. And that's why I
588
00:26:17,529 --> 00:26:20,481
love the way we've been doing it in Fish Queen is to
589
00:26:20,641 --> 00:26:23,473
not have so much a concrete narrative
590
00:26:23,537 --> 00:26:26,433
and maybe it'll get there at some point. But I suspect that
591
00:26:26,457 --> 00:26:29,449
if we, if and when we do get it to, you
592
00:26:29,465 --> 00:26:32,153
know, wicked level of like, ah, o, there's a
593
00:26:32,177 --> 00:26:35,009
plot, a story and a B story and all this
594
00:26:35,025 --> 00:26:37,661
shit, it'll probably be
595
00:26:38,541 --> 00:26:41,485
based on characters that have been created in this more
596
00:26:41,533 --> 00:26:44,281
primordial soup version of the show.
597
00:26:44,546 --> 00:26:47,331
and it'come up together organically that way.
598
00:26:48,021 --> 00:26:51,021
certainly some of my favorite musicals, Rent and
599
00:26:51,061 --> 00:26:53,973
Spring Awakening both come to mind where I know
600
00:26:53,997 --> 00:26:56,973
they were created in workshops with a proper
601
00:26:57,037 --> 00:26:59,903
cast of characters. both of those, interestingly,
602
00:26:59,967 --> 00:27:02,837
are based on earlier, like, a century
603
00:27:02,869 --> 00:27:05,693
ago works. In Rent's case, it's Lab O
604
00:27:05,717 --> 00:27:08,417
M. And in Spring Awakening, it's the play, the same name
605
00:27:08,449 --> 00:27:11,369
from a hundred years prior. But even within
606
00:27:11,385 --> 00:27:14,081
that framework, they, like, created the
607
00:27:14,121 --> 00:27:16,650
characters, personalities really
608
00:27:16,738 --> 00:27:18,726
around the actors that they had.
609
00:27:19,716 --> 00:27:22,020
Yeah, so I don't know where I was going with that.
610
00:27:22,068 --> 00:27:23,268
Butuck.
611
00:27:23,292 --> 00:27:26,188
Yeah, Rent don't pay your rent. If you have landlord problems, call
612
00:27:26,212 --> 00:27:27,616
me. We'll figure it out.
613
00:27:28,556 --> 00:27:30,885
I know you have some, you'in the, like,
614
00:27:31,365 --> 00:27:34,317
reflecting, I guess, and reconsiderations.
615
00:27:34,421 --> 00:27:37,285
But I am looking forward to seeing
616
00:27:37,325 --> 00:27:38,325
where this goes next.
617
00:27:38,445 --> 00:27:40,465
I follow you on Instagram,
618
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,587
@LesleyBraver. But if people are trying to
619
00:27:43,611 --> 00:27:43,939
follow.
620
00:27:44,027 --> 00:27:46,347
The musical following, the show is
621
00:27:46,491 --> 00:27:49,363
@GoanusFishQueen. Gowanus is a
622
00:27:49,379 --> 00:27:52,051
weird word spelled G O W A N U S
623
00:27:52,243 --> 00:27:55,107
and then it's fiter all
624
00:27:55,131 --> 00:27:55,895
one word.
625
00:27:57,895 --> 00:28:00,855
Oh, man, you're the best. Will never, ever
626
00:28:00,895 --> 00:28:03,583
forget the night we did Fish Queen. And at the end of the night,
627
00:28:03,639 --> 00:28:06,270
Griffin had, sketched every single
628
00:28:06,350 --> 00:28:09,350
member of the company and the company
629
00:28:09,390 --> 00:28:11,844
allt together. and the band too, I
630
00:28:11,892 --> 00:28:14,852
believe, which was like 15 people. And these
631
00:28:14,876 --> 00:28:17,292
are like good sketches. I mean, y'all
632
00:28:17,476 --> 00:28:20,028
listening this? Probably seen some of Griffin's work, but it was
633
00:28:20,084 --> 00:28:22,956
fantastic. I have mine around here somewhere. I just
634
00:28:22,988 --> 00:28:24,735
moved, so it's under some things. But,
635
00:28:25,710 --> 00:28:28,620
that was, that was a really glorious surprise and a real
636
00:28:28,660 --> 00:28:31,556
treat and we really glad and having you at
637
00:28:31,588 --> 00:28:33,876
every show. You just got to keep coming down to New York.
638
00:28:33,908 --> 00:28:35,924
All right, well, thank you for chatting with me and u
639
00:28:36,012 --> 00:28:37,600
Iiven.
640
00:28:45,780 --> 00:28:47,240
That looked like fun.
641
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:49,972
It was. The conversation was very
642
00:28:50,036 --> 00:28:52,868
interesting. It was very much a. This
643
00:28:52,884 --> 00:28:55,730
is something that they were just hosting casually. Over time,
644
00:28:55,770 --> 00:28:58,410
more people showed up and eventually
645
00:28:58,570 --> 00:29:00,990
they decided to collaborate on this thing.
646
00:29:01,490 --> 00:29:04,012
Still good to know that, that kind of
647
00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:05,800
social networking is happening.
648
00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:09,084
I do like that it was starting as just like a
649
00:29:09,172 --> 00:29:11,932
at home open mic thing, because honestly, there's
650
00:29:11,956 --> 00:29:14,604
an open mic near where I live that
651
00:29:14,652 --> 00:29:17,612
I'm obviously not a musician or a performer, but
652
00:29:17,636 --> 00:29:20,132
Douglas, the person who did the music for the
653
00:29:20,156 --> 00:29:22,802
podcast, I met him at that open
654
00:29:22,826 --> 00:29:25,378
mic and was able to get him to
655
00:29:25,394 --> 00:29:28,236
collaborate via, that connection. Leslie seemed
656
00:29:28,268 --> 00:29:31,228
very adamant that people should host such things as
657
00:29:31,284 --> 00:29:34,148
often as possible. It sort of makes me wish I had more of
658
00:29:34,204 --> 00:29:37,124
a community that I have built. I collect
659
00:29:37,172 --> 00:29:39,644
creatives, but I don't get to introduce them to each other very.
660
00:29:39,692 --> 00:29:42,524
Often because a lot of your creatives are in New York
661
00:29:42,572 --> 00:29:45,539
and you don't live here. So the, obvious answer is
662
00:29:45,579 --> 00:29:46,635
moved to New York.
663
00:29:46,787 --> 00:29:49,119
I have enough trouble paying rent in Boston.
664
00:29:50,539 --> 00:29:51,679
Fair enough.
665
00:29:52,259 --> 00:29:52,571
Wa.
666
00:29:52,595 --> 00:29:53,091
No.
667
00:29:53,235 --> 00:29:55,683
Do you have anything through school that happens like that? Is that a
668
00:29:55,691 --> 00:29:56,239
thing?
669
00:29:56,539 --> 00:29:58,959
Like, not. No.
670
00:29:59,499 --> 00:30:02,387
But my going abroad for a year, which I
671
00:30:02,403 --> 00:30:04,883
don't regret, it was a beautiful experience
672
00:30:05,011 --> 00:30:07,571
and I want to do it again. The thing is,
673
00:30:07,675 --> 00:30:10,595
because I was away for a year, a lot
674
00:30:10,627 --> 00:30:13,515
of my friends formed connections
675
00:30:13,627 --> 00:30:15,919
and like, groups of creatives,
676
00:30:16,044 --> 00:30:18,852
that are now solid and fully
677
00:30:18,908 --> 00:30:21,516
formed. So there's not much of a space for me to slot
678
00:30:21,580 --> 00:30:22,744
myself into.
679
00:30:23,124 --> 00:30:23,788
Gotcha.
680
00:30:23,876 --> 00:30:26,404
It's not that I am being excluded by my friends.
681
00:30:26,484 --> 00:30:29,396
It's they have other people to turn to for the
682
00:30:29,420 --> 00:30:31,024
things that I can offer.
683
00:30:32,124 --> 00:30:32,948
That's fair.
684
00:30:33,076 --> 00:30:36,052
One of my friends said he had a costume design project for me though, so
685
00:30:36,068 --> 00:30:37,484
I need to poke him about that.
686
00:30:37,604 --> 00:30:40,580
Oh, one thing I did
687
00:30:40,612 --> 00:30:43,377
like that she highlighted in, her journey was the
688
00:30:43,433 --> 00:30:46,201
idea that the songs that are in
689
00:30:46,225 --> 00:30:49,225
the musical now, none of them were
690
00:30:49,257 --> 00:30:52,099
written with that intention. they were all. I didn't realize
691
00:30:52,139 --> 00:30:55,059
that apparently they'just been writing songs
692
00:30:55,179 --> 00:30:58,099
on similar themes. She noticed that she
693
00:30:58,139 --> 00:31:01,035
could assemble those based on that similar theme.
694
00:31:01,067 --> 00:31:03,555
When trying to put together the
695
00:31:03,707 --> 00:31:06,491
farewell performance that the Fish Queen show
696
00:31:06,555 --> 00:31:08,443
and originally was cool.
697
00:31:08,571 --> 00:31:11,275
I like the idea of like, repurposing
698
00:31:11,387 --> 00:31:14,159
creative material. I've done that a lot where I've
699
00:31:14,299 --> 00:31:17,287
written a song and then realized that
700
00:31:17,303 --> 00:31:20,279
I didn't like most of it, so cannibalized it for parts
701
00:31:20,359 --> 00:31:22,819
and it's ended up being like three different ones.
702
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:25,111
Cannibalizing it for parts is
703
00:31:25,295 --> 00:31:26,779
fantastic way.
704
00:31:28,399 --> 00:31:30,699
Do you know what the term exquisite corpses?
705
00:31:32,244 --> 00:31:34,229
I think I've heard it, but I'm not familiar.
706
00:31:34,849 --> 00:31:37,697
I didn't know that that was one of the names for it. I've always known it as the
707
00:31:37,713 --> 00:31:40,611
bowing method. this concept of
708
00:31:40,715 --> 00:31:43,225
creative shuffling. but
709
00:31:43,257 --> 00:31:46,105
Bowie kind of, I don't know, popularize
710
00:31:46,137 --> 00:31:47,921
it. Is that the word or is a.
711
00:31:47,945 --> 00:31:48,549
Word
712
00:31:50,769 --> 00:31:53,737
every time I'm not in your head, I don't
713
00:31:53,753 --> 00:31:56,641
know what word you're looking for. I can only tell you that the word you said
714
00:31:56,705 --> 00:31:59,505
is in fact a word because sometimes they're
715
00:31:59,537 --> 00:32:00,109
not.
716
00:32:00,689 --> 00:32:03,593
This is true. That is absolutely
717
00:32:03,641 --> 00:32:06,568
true. And at least even then you are very kind. And, instead of
718
00:32:06,592 --> 00:32:09,336
saying that they're not, you say it can be, which I appreciate.
719
00:32:10,996 --> 00:32:13,764
But the lyrics were
720
00:32:13,940 --> 00:32:16,786
composed and then cut, up into
721
00:32:16,826 --> 00:32:19,706
chunks and reshuffled over and over until it felt
722
00:32:19,746 --> 00:32:22,642
right. Which Exquisite Corpse is a similar idea,
723
00:32:22,674 --> 00:32:25,618
but often collaboratively, where everyone
724
00:32:25,682 --> 00:32:28,616
sort of adds to, a work
725
00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:32,588
in. Sometimes it's in specific rotation, sometimes it's just
726
00:32:32,612 --> 00:32:35,402
whoever has the idea in the moment, but you just kind of pass something
727
00:32:35,434 --> 00:32:38,042
around until you end up with
728
00:32:38,114 --> 00:32:40,818
something that is an amalgamation of all of your creative
729
00:32:40,842 --> 00:32:43,018
outputs. So it's that Frankenstein.
730
00:32:43,162 --> 00:32:45,938
Frankensteinian. Frankensteinian, which is
731
00:32:45,962 --> 00:32:48,322
probably not a word, but they.
732
00:32:48,394 --> 00:32:51,362
Of assembling parts together to make a new
733
00:32:51,394 --> 00:32:52,018
whole.
734
00:32:52,202 --> 00:32:55,018
Nice. I have never had the opportunity
735
00:32:55,082 --> 00:32:57,881
to go to one, but I've heard of many,
736
00:32:57,831 --> 00:33:00,460
songwriting and creative workshops that are like
737
00:33:00,508 --> 00:33:03,368
that, where you just bring instruments
738
00:33:03,432 --> 00:33:05,768
and your own ideas and then you all work on each other's
739
00:33:05,792 --> 00:33:06,568
material.
740
00:33:06,712 --> 00:33:08,516
Oh, that sounds amazing.
741
00:33:09,816 --> 00:33:12,550
One of my, favorite
742
00:33:12,638 --> 00:33:15,454
singers did one with
743
00:33:15,550 --> 00:33:18,086
a bunch of other artists who I also really
744
00:33:18,206 --> 00:33:21,198
enjoy. And then they all posted about
745
00:33:21,222 --> 00:33:23,946
it later. They went somewhere for a weekend
746
00:33:24,246 --> 00:33:27,166
each with a song or an idea for A song.
747
00:33:27,206 --> 00:33:30,146
And then they all recorded them and they were all on each other.
748
00:33:30,735 --> 00:33:31,295
That's.
749
00:33:31,375 --> 00:33:34,087
And it was just. The results were
750
00:33:34,111 --> 00:33:35,075
fantastic.
751
00:33:35,535 --> 00:33:38,511
I know this is far less on
752
00:33:38,623 --> 00:33:41,527
topic. You've seen the Princess Bride, I have
753
00:33:41,551 --> 00:33:43,183
to assume. I think everyone I know has.
754
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:43,999
Yes.
755
00:33:44,167 --> 00:33:47,125
Every once in a while. I'm surprised. did you ever see the
756
00:33:47,205 --> 00:33:48,637
COVID remake?
757
00:33:48,781 --> 00:33:51,589
Yes. Definitely
758
00:33:51,637 --> 00:33:53,621
off topic, but I understand.
759
00:33:53,773 --> 00:33:56,621
I mean, it's not off off topic. Everyone's sort off filmed
760
00:33:56,653 --> 00:33:59,472
their own ver. Our own scenes. And then it all got stitched
761
00:33:59,504 --> 00:34:02,456
together into one huge remake with a constant rotating
762
00:34:02,496 --> 00:34:04,076
cast of phone footage.
763
00:34:05,336 --> 00:34:07,356
I feel like the vibe is different.
764
00:34:07,656 --> 00:34:10,576
Oh, for sure. Because it's a lot more trustful, less collaborative.
765
00:34:10,656 --> 00:34:13,304
Everyone just kind of throwing their own dart and there
766
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,956
wasn't so much communication happening between it.
767
00:34:16,376 --> 00:34:17,032
But it still.
768
00:34:17,104 --> 00:34:19,920
And also instead of everybody helping somebody else
769
00:34:19,968 --> 00:34:22,864
with their thing, it's everybody working on the same big
770
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,574
thing.
771
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,666
Yeah. I feel like the Princess
772
00:34:26,706 --> 00:34:29,346
Bride Covid version was definitely more of an exquisite
773
00:34:29,386 --> 00:34:32,274
corpse root. Then
774
00:34:32,370 --> 00:34:35,154
yours is definitely more of a collaborative. Like I've been using the word
775
00:34:35,170 --> 00:34:37,634
amalgamation too much, but that'the only word I can think of where
776
00:34:37,770 --> 00:34:40,538
everyone's sort of contributing and supporting and
777
00:34:40,642 --> 00:34:42,886
helping. And it's nice.
778
00:34:43,426 --> 00:34:45,006
Yeah, it is nice.
779
00:34:45,306 --> 00:34:48,130
In illustration, I sort of envy. I. I envy
780
00:34:48,178 --> 00:34:51,142
the fact that other types of creatives have more opportunities
781
00:34:51,214 --> 00:34:54,086
to be able to work, easily with
782
00:34:54,126 --> 00:34:56,198
other people in such a way.
783
00:34:56,342 --> 00:34:59,066
I think the most important part of it is just respect.
784
00:34:59,926 --> 00:35:02,678
Like, it means so much to be able to
785
00:35:02,702 --> 00:35:05,198
walk into a room full of
786
00:35:05,302 --> 00:35:08,094
artistic people that you respect and know that they
787
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:10,750
all respect you as an artist on the same
788
00:35:10,798 --> 00:35:13,670
level. Because if you don't have that, then it's really
789
00:35:13,718 --> 00:35:15,966
easy to fall into insecurity or imposter
790
00:35:16,006 --> 00:35:18,736
syndrome and believe
791
00:35:18,776 --> 00:35:21,592
that you are the only untalented
792
00:35:21,664 --> 00:35:24,236
person in this room full of great people.
793
00:35:25,536 --> 00:35:28,096
But having a
794
00:35:28,176 --> 00:35:31,152
tangible sense of being respected
795
00:35:31,344 --> 00:35:34,152
means so much for being able
796
00:35:34,224 --> 00:35:36,832
to be creative. Having that
797
00:35:36,904 --> 00:35:38,236
security is everything.
798
00:35:39,056 --> 00:35:42,047
I think Leslie said it as, creativity
799
00:35:42,095 --> 00:35:44,877
multiplier. Just the idea that if you
800
00:35:44,925 --> 00:35:47,909
are collaborating and you get two people who are
801
00:35:48,101 --> 00:35:50,965
building off each other, respecting each other,
802
00:35:51,149 --> 00:35:53,713
and no one's trying to control too much,
803
00:35:54,213 --> 00:35:56,973
that it elevates whatever's happening greater
804
00:35:57,013 --> 00:35:59,553
than the combined base.
805
00:35:59,933 --> 00:36:00,993
Absolutely.
806
00:36:01,333 --> 00:36:04,245
Which is tough because I've seen a lot of projects
807
00:36:04,349 --> 00:36:07,261
where one person try too hard to control too much and it
808
00:36:07,357 --> 00:36:09,393
becomes brittle way too fast as everyone
809
00:36:09,843 --> 00:36:12,683
lacks the sense of freedom to play or
810
00:36:12,723 --> 00:36:15,579
explore. I do like
811
00:36:15,611 --> 00:36:18,403
that with costuming and cosplay specifically, you have
812
00:36:18,443 --> 00:36:21,435
a collaborative version of that where you can pair up
813
00:36:21,459 --> 00:36:24,051
with people for themed group cosplay
814
00:36:24,107 --> 00:36:24,483
stuff.
815
00:36:24,563 --> 00:36:27,467
O yeahl My housemates and I are
816
00:36:27,515 --> 00:36:30,371
going to Flamecon this year, and
817
00:36:30,467 --> 00:36:31,703
one of our friends,
818
00:36:33,088 --> 00:36:35,937
pitched a group cosplay that has been
819
00:36:35,985 --> 00:36:38,969
accepted. So I still need to figure out who I'm doing, but we're gonna
820
00:36:39,001 --> 00:36:41,948
do, great Godgrove, which is a video game
821
00:36:42,528 --> 00:36:45,088
that a couple of them really like. I
822
00:36:45,248 --> 00:36:48,160
have watched my housemates play it. I haven't played it
823
00:36:48,184 --> 00:36:50,806
myself yet. but that's gonna be fun too.
824
00:36:50,982 --> 00:36:53,870
I also love that I moved into an apartment where
825
00:36:53,894 --> 00:36:55,538
people already love cosplay.
826
00:36:55,998 --> 00:36:58,814
Yes. No, that is. Your apartment seems
827
00:36:58,846 --> 00:36:59,446
great.
828
00:36:59,622 --> 00:37:02,398
My apartment is great. I love living here so
829
00:37:02,438 --> 00:37:03,018
much.
830
00:37:04,518 --> 00:37:06,782
Well, I know you have to get to your big adult job,
831
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:09,782
so I'm gonna get one more coffy to
832
00:37:09,790 --> 00:37:12,732
go and start packing up, but, talk to you in
833
00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:13,436
a few days.
834
00:37:13,572 --> 00:37:14,888
Yeah, that sounds good.
835
00:37:35,788 --> 00:37:38,437
Yeah. No duck on the water. see what the
836
00:37:38,445 --> 00:37:41,109
paddles See what gets the paddles
837
00:37:41,141 --> 00:37:43,613
moving, what gets the paddling
838
00:37:43,653 --> 00:37:46,453
happening. There's a way to say that that isn't awkward.
839
00:37:46,573 --> 00:37:47,793
This is all staying in.
840
00:37:48,493 --> 00:37:49,393
I know.
841
00:37:51,493 --> 00:37:54,429
Thanks for listening. Head over to shadedare
842
00:37:54,461 --> 00:37:57,205
areas.com createartreeat
843
00:37:57,269 --> 00:38:00,205
all one word to find out more about the show. Or
844
00:38:00,229 --> 00:38:02,933
head over to patreon.com
845
00:38:03,093 --> 00:38:05,941
createartreeat to support the show and get some
846
00:38:05,957 --> 00:38:08,829
neat swag as an option depending on what tier you decide to support us
847
00:38:08,861 --> 00:38:11,229
at. And until next time, stay
848
00:38:11,261 --> 00:38:13,853
thoughtful, stay playful, and keep creating.