The Golden Thread: Why Unreasonable Hospitality Needs a Story First with Sonya & Julie

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Speaker 9: Hello Coworking
Community Builders.
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This is the Coworking Values Podcast.
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So today in the studio is Sonya and Julie.
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I met them just before lockdown in
COVID in Nashville when we were doing
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the StoryBrand Guide training together.
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And then since then, unreasonable
Hospital h Brutality has become the, the
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book du Jo of the Coworking Industry.
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And it's a really important book.
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It, I've worked in hospitality
for about 3000 years.
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And I really, really write that book.
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So in here we dig into hospitality,
customer service, what it
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means, how it's positioned.
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And the best news is sometime in
June, June the 11th, I think it is.
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I should know that.
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Doing an intro to my own podcast, Dr.
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JJ Peterson from StoryBrand, who wrote
the Guide and everything with Will Guera
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about Unreasonable Hospitality and.
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Julie and Sonya are running a story
brand workshop and an unreasonable
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hospitality workshop in Holburn in
Central London, and I know you're
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supposed to be called and leave this
to the end, but if you click the link
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in the show notes and type in the code.
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Coworking values, all one word that will
get you the mate's rate to the workshop.
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It is gonna be amazing.
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I will be there and I know people
that are doing things like that
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always say amazing, but I cannot wait.
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I'm flying in for my luxury layer
in Galicia to be at that event.
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So that's enough for me.
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Let's get into them.
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Speaker: I am Over the moon again.
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I mean, I know I say that nearly
every episode, but Sonya and Julia are
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back in the luxury studio, and we're
gonna be talking about StoryBrand
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and Unreasonable Hospitality I'm
gonna let them introduce themselves.
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So, who, which of you
two wants to go first?
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Do you wanna go first?
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Sonya?
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Like, what would you like to be known for?
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And then batter over to Julie.
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Speaker 2: Thank you.
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So I'm Sonya Whitten.
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I co-own story 22 with Julie Firth
and we run a full service marketing
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agency that specialises in StoryBrand.
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But also over the last couple of years
we've been delivering unreasonable
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hospitality workshops across the uk.
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And it's something that we've.
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Feel really passionately about our agency
has been running for six years and as
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we've kind of gone through that time,
it is become very obvious to us that you
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know, marketing and, and service the.
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So closely linked.
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And you know, the way we kind of think
about it is that marketing makes these
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promises and service delivers that.
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So for us, StoryBrand and Unreasonable
Hospitality, you know, really work
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together kind of hand in glove and
StoryBrand is, you know, really about
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thinking about how you communicate
that you care to your customers and.
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The unreasonable hospitality side
of things is how you prove it.
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And we are going to be running
a workshop in London in June
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that kind of covers this.
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Julie, do you wanna take
over and say a bit more?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
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So I'm Julie Sonya's business partner.
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And in the last couple of years, I,
I think as, as sort of AI's come in
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we are leaning more and more into
delivering training and workshops
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for, clients that are trying to,
trying to stand out, I suppose.
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And one of the things we love about
Unreasonable Hospitality is it is
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really does give people a, a very
clear competitive advantage when
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it's delivered in the right way.
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And just to kind of reiterate what so
was saying about how StoryBrand and.
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Unreasonable hospitality
fit really well together.
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So obviously StoryBrand helps you
understand who you are, and then
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Unreasonable Hospitality helps you then
deliver what you stand for and how you
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wanna project that onto your clients so
that your customers, your members, so that
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they have the best possible experience.
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So that's that's it in a nutshell.
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Speaker: Let's set, set
this up a little bit.
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'cause like we met in, oh my God, is it
like six years ago or five years ago?
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Speaker 3: Yes.
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Yes.
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In Nashville.
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Speaker: Nashville doing StoryBrand
guide training and, you know, we just
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like followed each other ever since.
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And I, I, when I'm Reasonable
hospitality came out I love that book.
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I think everyone should read.
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I dunno.
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I just think everyone should read it.
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I haven't got a why they should read
it, but you know, I'm reasonable.
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Hospitality and Kitchen Confidential by
Anthony Bourdain and I always like to
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tell the, I grew up in five star hotels
and served Roger Moore, but actually I
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spent most of my careers in middle of the
road casual dining restaurants serving
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mediocre for heaters and cheeseburgers
to people drinking too much tequila.
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But there was always this like, human
interaction, and I think those two
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books are like, as, as someone who
worked in catering, we used to call
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it, they're, they're like, really?
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They're really enjoyable to read
and you feel like you are at that.
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That is something I wish I'd read in the
last century when I worked in catering.
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And there's this matching of,
like you said just now, Julie,
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of the story and the delivery.
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And that's what I want to kind
of unpick for people here.
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And that Unreasonable hospitality book
is all over the coworking industry.
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And I feel that people.
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I know someone who owns a, owns
a coworking space goes, I've
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read this book, let's do this.
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And there's a massive disconnect.
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Which I hope you have the
answer to the disconnect 'cause
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I dunno where I'm going now.
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But yeah.
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What do you think?
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What do you think happens?
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Speaker 3: Well, I, I think one of the,
the challenges there is if you think
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about if you're familiar with Unreasonable
Hospitality, you'll, you'll know that some
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of the work that Bill Gadara did was to
really, he had, he worked with his team.
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He knew he couldn't get them on his own.
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He had to bring the
team on board with that.
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And, part of the process was to empower
them to be able to react in the moment
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to create these incredible experiences.
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Now, the challenge with that is unless
you have this kind of golden thread
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running through everything that you
do about what you stand for, who you
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are as a business, what you want to
be known for, without really drilling
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down into that first, people are at
risk of going into a million different
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directions is one of the things we see
from the workshops we deliver, is that.
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You get a group of people around the
table and you get 'em to start thinking
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in a different way about, about
the experience they could deliver.
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And the the great thing is, is
they are full of excitement.
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They're full of 1,000,001 different ideas.
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All of a sudden they're really fired up.
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But without something that.
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Kind of gives you the not control,
but the guardrails, I suppose,
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to kind of, stick within that
gives you a, what's your purpose?
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What's the purpose of doing this
amazing thing for that person?
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Does it fit with our values and
what we stand for and how we
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wanna project ourselves to our,
to our customers or our members?
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Without that in place first, then I.
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Think that is one of the areas
where unreasonable hospitality
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can quickly trip you up.
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There are others, and I think
we'll go into those when we start
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to talk about process as well.
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But that, that for me, I think you have to
know what your story is first to then be
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able to deliver on that story through the
unreasonable hospitality side of things.
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Speaker: So with that story thing,
Sonya, like, I mean ideally everyone
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would sit down and do a story brand,
whatever it is, brand script, but
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like it is working out who you are.
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Is that like a little bit at a
time over a year or is that like.
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Right on a napkin and a cafe.
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Like how does, because I hear and I say
things like that too, you really need
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to find out your, what you're about.
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But what is that in reality?
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How do, how do you do that?
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Especially if you're like a, you know,
a one, one or two person business in
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Rochester running a coworking space.
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Like how, what is the process
and time to get that done?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I, and actually,
it's a really interesting question that
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you say, 'cause it's something that we
you know, we work with our customers
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quite a lot on, and, you know, one
of the big, I thought you're gonna
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say that's something we struggle with
ourselves, but actually I do, I do think
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it's difficult to do it for yourself.
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And I think the, you know, the, you go
back to, you know, don Miller saying
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that, you know, that you are so close to
it, you can't see the wood for the tree.
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So it's def, you know, definitely
it's, it's far more difficult
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to do it for yourself because
you get that curse of knowledge.
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You know, you know everything.
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So it's difficult for you
to be able to work that out.
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And I think that's, you know,
one of the reasons why, you know,
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people do go to guides, to, to help
with that, to kind of work out.
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Y you know, that.
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Ability to be able to see as your
customer sees you not as you know,
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everything, you know, you know
the ins and outs of your business.
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It's difficult to think about how
your customer might see you there.
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But I do think that position, and we'd
call it positioning, so you know, that
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positioning of understanding what you
stand for needs to come before you even
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start getting into your messaging and
should come before you get into, you
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know, kind of thinking about the service.
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You know, elements of that and
getting into, you know, where
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your touch points might be.
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So they, you know, it very much is
cyclical, but it, you, you have to be
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thinking about what you stand for, who
you are, what experience you want your
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customers to have before you can even
get into that marketing of the message.
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So, you know, they kind of
fit really well hand in glove.
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Speaker: Can I jump in there?
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'cause I see I, and I've
been in these sessions.
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People say like what you said
what triggered my excitement there
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was when you said, stand for, and
people will say something like
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oh yeah, we're a coworking space.
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We, we stand for quality,
service and value.
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And that's like Marks
and Spencer's in 1994.
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Like, what do you actually believe in?
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Like, you know, and how do you
get that bit out of, if, if
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you can't go to a workshop?
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Like how, how do you find that bit?
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Because I think.
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People, we've all done it.
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You know, we've all like looked
at everyone else's website
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and copied the best bits.
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And I think that works less
than it ever has nowadays.
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But how do you work out who you are?
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That's a big question, isn't it?
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Sorry,
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Speaker 2: Julie, do
you wanna pick that up?
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Well, I, I, I think actually
this comes back to who your
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customers are first and foremost.
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So, when we were chatting before
earlier Bernie, we were, we
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were talking about the different
personalities that different coworking
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faces might have and the different
people they're trying to attract.
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And you could have one that
is trying to be a home.
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From home and they want this to feel cosy
and that people are feel looked after.
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And that could have a very different
personality to one that was very tech
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focused where people needed efficiency.
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And once you know, once you understand
who your customers are and what they
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value, then that's how you understand.
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How to prioritise your values.
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So you could have you could
have a set of values internally,
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personally if you are the founder.
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And then it's how you how you refine
those values to be, understood by your
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customers and, and be relatable to your,
your ideal customer profile, I suppose.
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So there's there's no point in having say.
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Say efficiency was one
of your your values.
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If efficiency wasn't something that
chimed with your people that liked that
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home from home co-working space, then
that's, it's, there's a disconnect.
00:10:15.937 --> 00:10:18.877
There you are, you are not aligning
yourself with your customers.
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So I, I think it, it always
goes back to the customers.
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What is it your customers need?
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And one of the coworker spaces we
worked with, they recognise that
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actually who their target audience was.
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Businesses that weren't quite big
enough to have their own premises,
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or perhaps it wasn't cost efficient
for them to have their own premises,
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but they were pitching to customers
themselves that they needed to appear.
00:10:43.252 --> 00:10:47.752
Sometimes perhaps larger than they
actually were, but definitely impressive.
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And be able to kind of sit
comfortably in that market space.
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Now, they wouldn't be the right
customers for the home from home.
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Coworking space so it can see suddenly
how the values then need to kind of shift
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and adapt according to who the customers
are and what they're looking for.
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Does that make sense?
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Speaker: How, how can
I say no at that point?
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But it does make sense.
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Hopefully awkward as you were talking.
00:11:09.722 --> 00:11:12.762
'cause I, I, you know, I've read
that book like 50,000 times now,
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and the way he, instead of going
into, he just, does he say something
00:11:16.812 --> 00:11:18.652
about non-negotiables in the book?
00:11:18.752 --> 00:11:22.592
That it, it's like operating
like with intentionality and
00:11:22.592 --> 00:11:23.462
knowing what you're trying to do.
00:11:23.552 --> 00:11:26.542
And I'm, and the thing is nearly coming
into my head as I'm thinking, and then he
00:11:26.542 --> 00:11:28.642
goes, what are your non, non-negotiables?
00:11:28.742 --> 00:11:32.612
And it's about somewhere along
where he is just taken over 11
00:11:32.612 --> 00:11:35.952
Madison Park and he's saying, this
is what, this is what we stand for.
00:11:36.052 --> 00:11:37.812
And he, he's, it's in the book.
00:11:37.812 --> 00:11:38.982
It's when he's talking about.
00:11:39.082 --> 00:11:42.712
The speech he gives to the team and
he doesn't give the speech to the team
00:11:42.812 --> 00:11:45.932
like he wants to first off, but then
months later he gives the speech to
00:11:45.932 --> 00:11:49.232
the team, but he's like worked out with
the team what the non-negotiables are.
00:11:49.332 --> 00:11:50.232
That was like a book review.
00:11:50.232 --> 00:11:50.592
Sorry.
00:11:50.692 --> 00:11:52.432
I like the way he said that
is what I'm trying to say.
00:11:52.532 --> 00:11:52.862
Certainly.
00:11:52.862 --> 00:11:53.402
What do you think?
00:11:53.502 --> 00:11:56.422
Speaker 2: What's the, what do I think
to want, what about the non-negotiables?
00:11:56.522 --> 00:11:57.482
Speaker: Yes, let's go with that.
00:11:57.482 --> 00:11:57.782
Because
00:11:57.882 --> 00:11:58.272
Speaker 2: pay for the question.
00:11:58.322 --> 00:11:59.352
I actually, I, I think.
00:11:59.452 --> 00:12:00.652
You know that that is right.
00:12:00.652 --> 00:12:03.082
And actually one of the things that,
you know, we kind of talked about
00:12:03.082 --> 00:12:06.292
before we came on here, which I think
is linked to what you've said there
00:12:06.392 --> 00:12:10.302
is about your culture internally.
00:12:10.302 --> 00:12:15.382
Your, your team has to want to deliver
those things for your customers.
00:12:15.382 --> 00:12:19.482
The non-negotiables that you agree with,
your, you know, with, with your team.
00:12:19.582 --> 00:12:21.112
They have to be brought onto that.
00:12:21.212 --> 00:12:22.772
And, you know, very often.
00:12:22.872 --> 00:12:27.162
You know, when we go to places that we
have a poor, you know, poor customer
00:12:27.162 --> 00:12:30.482
service, we have a poor customer
poor customer service at every
00:12:30.482 --> 00:12:34.362
touch point, it's because the team
culture internally and not brought
00:12:34.362 --> 00:12:36.132
in to delivering that great service.
00:12:36.232 --> 00:12:39.512
And you know, on the flip side of
that, we were, you know, we went to
00:12:39.562 --> 00:12:43.522
Barcelona recently and we had some
food at a place called olive Greens.
00:12:43.622 --> 00:12:46.682
And you could tell the team culture.
00:12:46.782 --> 00:12:50.782
The, the non-negotiables were that, that
customers had to feel valued in there.
00:12:50.812 --> 00:12:53.132
And we, you know, we had sort
of four or five different
00:12:53.132 --> 00:12:54.392
touch points as we walked in.
00:12:54.392 --> 00:12:57.502
They gave us a menu, you
know, as we ordered the food.
00:12:57.602 --> 00:13:00.362
When they brought the food over to us,
when they came over to check the food.
00:13:00.462 --> 00:13:03.162
Every single touch point was exceptional.
00:13:03.222 --> 00:13:07.682
And it's because they're brought into
where we value our customers here.
00:13:07.682 --> 00:13:09.182
We want 'em to have a good experience.
00:13:09.182 --> 00:13:10.952
And, you know, we'd never been
to this restaurant before.
00:13:10.952 --> 00:13:13.142
It's kind of a fast food, healthy place.
00:13:13.242 --> 00:13:16.792
But you go and stand at the till and
order and the, you know, the lady,
00:13:16.792 --> 00:13:19.772
the Maury at the front, if you like,
kind of, you know, walked us up to the
00:13:19.772 --> 00:13:23.042
counter to explain how to order the
type of different food that we could
00:13:23.042 --> 00:13:24.792
have, you know, what was best to have.
00:13:24.892 --> 00:13:27.912
And it was that, you know,
she took time you know, to
00:13:27.912 --> 00:13:28.882
really go through that with us.
00:13:28.882 --> 00:13:32.267
And I think when you talk about those
kind of non-negotiables, they do start
00:13:32.297 --> 00:13:35.277
with the culture internally at the team.
00:13:35.377 --> 00:13:38.657
Speaker: There's there's a taco place
here in Vigo, which is 20 minutes walk
00:13:38.657 --> 00:13:42.587
from our house, and there are more taco
places nearer and which are nice too.
00:13:42.647 --> 00:13:46.167
But when you go in there, they,
there's like three people working
00:13:46.167 --> 00:13:49.277
in there and they cook all the
food nearly in front of you.
00:13:49.377 --> 00:13:51.907
And it is the real deal and it's real.
00:13:51.937 --> 00:13:55.977
It's like real Mexican food, not
like Taco Bell kind of stuff.
00:13:56.077 --> 00:13:57.737
And it's further to walk.
00:13:57.837 --> 00:13:59.247
It's mayhem in there.
00:13:59.347 --> 00:14:00.547
The food is amazing.
00:14:00.647 --> 00:14:04.347
The two, the three people running it
like know what everybody's doing and
00:14:04.397 --> 00:14:06.727
it's very small and I just love it.
00:14:06.817 --> 00:14:09.127
You know, there's something about,
it's not like they, what, where
00:14:09.127 --> 00:14:11.907
I'm going with this is, it's not
like they design the experience.
00:14:11.937 --> 00:14:13.827
I don't think they sit down
and have a crew meeting.
00:14:13.857 --> 00:14:14.067
Yeah.
00:14:14.097 --> 00:14:15.297
Let's go rah, rah, rah.
00:14:15.297 --> 00:14:15.507
Yeah.
00:14:15.507 --> 00:14:17.917
Today we're focused on
ultimate guest service.
00:14:17.917 --> 00:14:20.807
They're just like, really,
really love what they do, and.
00:14:20.907 --> 00:14:22.557
They just managed to drop in.
00:14:22.647 --> 00:14:26.907
Like as you leave they kind of throw you
a little Mexican suite and it, it's the,
00:14:26.907 --> 00:14:28.357
it's the, oh god, dunno what to say.
00:14:28.457 --> 00:14:29.507
They just, they just love it.
00:14:29.537 --> 00:14:30.137
They love it.
00:14:30.137 --> 00:14:30.737
So, you love it?
00:14:30.837 --> 00:14:31.227
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:14:31.277 --> 00:14:35.597
Speaker 3: They might have non-negotiables
that are almost un unspoken.
00:14:35.697 --> 00:14:38.217
That is just a given
that this is who we are.
00:14:38.247 --> 00:14:42.477
This is, maybe that is around the food,
around the energy that's in there.
00:14:42.577 --> 00:14:43.987
That just brings that to life.
00:14:43.987 --> 00:14:47.627
But I think, I think going back to
those values and the what your story
00:14:47.627 --> 00:14:50.997
is and what your non-negotiables
are, that goes back to hiring the
00:14:50.997 --> 00:14:52.497
people that you are hiring as well.
00:14:52.497 --> 00:14:53.137
It's not about just.
00:14:53.237 --> 00:14:57.177
Hiring someone that can be well
organised and manage the bookings.
00:14:57.177 --> 00:14:59.067
It's how do they fit into that?
00:14:59.167 --> 00:15:02.297
To that culture, like Sun was saying,
that you, you have to have that all
00:15:02.297 --> 00:15:07.207
aligned for that, to get that buy-in
for people to really understand
00:15:07.307 --> 00:15:08.597
that you're on a journey together.
00:15:08.597 --> 00:15:11.327
This isn't just about
coming into work every day.
00:15:11.357 --> 00:15:13.097
It's so much more than that.
00:15:13.197 --> 00:15:17.627
And that's what we see in the workshops
is we've so lucky to be, have worked
00:15:17.627 --> 00:15:19.797
with groups of people that clearly.
00:15:19.897 --> 00:15:21.497
Get, get the non-negotiables.
00:15:21.497 --> 00:15:23.057
That's not even really discussed.
00:15:23.057 --> 00:15:25.417
It's kind of very it's
hinted at at the beginning.
00:15:25.417 --> 00:15:26.467
Yes, that's what we do.
00:15:26.467 --> 00:15:28.537
Of course, we're always trying
to deliver the very best.
00:15:28.537 --> 00:15:30.457
How do we take it one step further?
00:15:30.557 --> 00:15:34.047
And that's where it really then
starts to get super exciting.
00:15:34.147 --> 00:15:37.487
Speaker: So with it, with both these
frameworks or these book, I'm gonna
00:15:37.487 --> 00:15:40.127
say books 'cause it's, you know,
that's what most people will know.
00:15:40.227 --> 00:15:42.797
It's like, you know, I've, I've
done StoryBrand everywhere.
00:15:42.897 --> 00:15:47.217
And, I worked in hospitality and I
really loved the book and appreciate it.
00:15:47.217 --> 00:15:51.607
And I, and in both books I see I've met
people in real life putting them into
00:15:51.707 --> 00:15:55.077
into action, like practically applying
them rather than just sitting around
00:15:55.177 --> 00:15:56.647
doing a podcast like this about them.
00:15:56.747 --> 00:15:57.617
How do you.
00:15:57.717 --> 00:15:58.047
When?
00:15:58.047 --> 00:16:01.427
When you see, when you meet people,
all those, I'm gonna say like micro
00:16:01.427 --> 00:16:04.647
businesses, 'cause most people
that listen to this are one or two
00:16:04.647 --> 00:16:08.767
person businesses with two or 3,
1, 2 or three coworking spaces.
00:16:08.767 --> 00:16:12.527
Like where do people get in their
own way as they try to tell their own
00:16:12.527 --> 00:16:15.267
story and then apply their hospitality?
00:16:15.367 --> 00:16:16.207
In their business.
00:16:16.267 --> 00:16:20.347
Is it, is there like a, a few reoccurring
things that people do and like, no, just,
00:16:20.407 --> 00:16:22.117
just skip that bit and get to this bit?
00:16:22.117 --> 00:16:25.317
Or you don't need to meditate
for three years on it.
00:16:25.377 --> 00:16:27.667
Just like, write a blog
post and get going.
00:16:27.667 --> 00:16:30.902
Like, are there, there things
that come up that stop people
00:16:31.002 --> 00:16:33.072
adopting these simple philosophies?
00:16:33.132 --> 00:16:34.632
Speaker 3: Shall I pick up the story side?
00:16:34.732 --> 00:16:35.152
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:16:35.252 --> 00:16:36.012
Speaker 3: So on.
00:16:36.072 --> 00:16:42.002
I think one of the biggest pitfalls is
in, in trying to work out what your story
00:16:42.002 --> 00:16:46.972
is and how to implement that is, is not
thinking about who your customer is first.
00:16:47.072 --> 00:16:47.172
And.
00:16:47.272 --> 00:16:52.172
And how, and not re and thinking
about this as a marketing tool
00:16:52.202 --> 00:16:56.292
rather than a mindset shift
in, in everything that you do.
00:16:56.392 --> 00:16:58.372
We are really lucky that like, I think.
00:16:58.472 --> 00:17:02.972
99% of our clients have already
been familiar with StoryBrand
00:17:02.972 --> 00:17:04.032
before they come to us.
00:17:04.032 --> 00:17:08.162
But the ones that perhaps have
not been so aware, I think there
00:17:08.162 --> 00:17:12.192
is an, a natural tendency because
of like marketing gone by.
00:17:12.292 --> 00:17:15.292
There's a natural tendency to think
that we have to talk about our business
00:17:15.292 --> 00:17:17.332
and we have to put the business first.
00:17:17.432 --> 00:17:20.442
And actually when you
put your customer first.
00:17:20.542 --> 00:17:25.602
So long as you understand why you are
doing those things and how you are
00:17:25.702 --> 00:17:29.452
making yourself relevant, everything
else just falls into place anyway.
00:17:29.452 --> 00:17:33.252
You don't have to sell because you
naturally become the right solution
00:17:33.252 --> 00:17:34.542
for what they're looking for.
00:17:34.642 --> 00:17:38.252
So I think doing your own messaging
is really tough because you're
00:17:38.252 --> 00:17:39.877
too close to it and you have.
00:17:39.977 --> 00:17:42.257
Put blood, sweat, and
tears into it yourself.
00:17:42.357 --> 00:17:46.257
And you, it's almost impossible for
you to stand in your customer's shoes.
00:17:46.357 --> 00:17:50.257
Having somebody else kind of hold a
mirror up to why is that relevant?
00:17:50.257 --> 00:17:51.277
Why are you saying that?
00:17:51.337 --> 00:17:54.477
Why does that matter is priceless.
00:17:54.577 --> 00:17:55.417
And then.
00:17:55.517 --> 00:17:59.867
Then how you deliver that, that
should be across everything in, you
00:17:59.867 --> 00:18:03.847
know, from the, from a marketing
perspective, you should be able to
00:18:03.877 --> 00:18:06.127
detect that message across everything.
00:18:06.132 --> 00:18:10.337
And, and often people forget, they stop
talking about the problem that they solve.
00:18:10.437 --> 00:18:11.957
They it just kind of.
00:18:12.057 --> 00:18:15.667
Sometimes it, people don't
understand how to implement that.
00:18:15.667 --> 00:18:19.487
I think that's the biggest challenge is
the how to, what does that look like in
00:18:19.487 --> 00:18:23.637
the day to day and in the communication
in the emails that we send out, how
00:18:23.637 --> 00:18:25.767
do we continue that on from there?
00:18:25.867 --> 00:18:29.557
Sonya, do you want to pick up what
that looks like and challenges with
00:18:29.557 --> 00:18:31.687
implementing unreasonable hospitality?
00:18:31.787 --> 00:18:34.927
Speaker 2: Yeah, and, well, I think one
you know, one of the biggest challenges
00:18:34.927 --> 00:18:38.487
that I think people, and typically
it's leaders of businesses, right, who
00:18:38.487 --> 00:18:41.467
read this book and then are like, oh,
great, we're gonna implement that in.
00:18:41.567 --> 00:18:44.427
But you know, one of, and you
kind of alluded to this earlier,
00:18:44.427 --> 00:18:48.847
Bernie, that you have to empower
your team to be able to make.
00:18:48.947 --> 00:18:52.497
On the spot decisions because you
know, will Guara says, you know, it
00:18:52.497 --> 00:18:57.707
is, it's, you are, you are creating
an experience that is for individuals.
00:18:57.767 --> 00:19:00.317
So you're not trying to create
an experience that you can.
00:19:00.417 --> 00:19:03.067
Yes, you want that experience to
be, you know, to be able to be
00:19:03.067 --> 00:19:09.127
replicated, but you want to empower
your team to be able to solve those.
00:19:09.227 --> 00:19:12.857
Problems individually for customers or,
or, or see something that customer's
00:19:12.857 --> 00:19:15.357
going through and tailor it for them.
00:19:15.357 --> 00:19:19.972
So, you know, he kind of talks about one
size fits one, and I, I think, you know,
00:19:19.972 --> 00:19:24.002
goes back to that culture thing we were
talking about earlier, but also, you know,
00:19:24.002 --> 00:19:26.167
your ability for your team to be able to.
00:19:26.267 --> 00:19:30.777
View each customer and each experience
that they have as kind of this new thing,
00:19:30.777 --> 00:19:34.317
not something that they've done a hundred
times, you know, that day or that week.
00:19:34.417 --> 00:19:38.347
And, you know, if you think about the
book, you know, Wil talks about these
00:19:38.347 --> 00:19:42.427
kind of touch points that you go through
and how you can elevate each of those.
00:19:42.427 --> 00:19:43.847
And you know, one of them is.
00:19:43.947 --> 00:19:47.737
You know, if you notice someone lefthand,
they'll change the play settings and
00:19:47.837 --> 00:19:52.927
you know, that really makes people
feel something, you know, that there.
00:19:53.027 --> 00:19:55.997
These experiences are designed
and not left to chance.
00:19:55.997 --> 00:19:58.817
So everything's intentionally
done, and you know, each touch
00:19:58.817 --> 00:20:02.967
point is thought through, but it is
thought through in a way that c you
00:20:02.967 --> 00:20:07.057
know, your team are empowered to
personalise it for those customers.
00:20:07.157 --> 00:20:09.897
So, you know, they're, they're
trusted to make decisions and there's
00:20:09.897 --> 00:20:12.247
no rigid structure or scripts.
00:20:12.347 --> 00:20:13.857
It's not over controlled.
00:20:13.957 --> 00:20:14.657
You know, if you are.
00:20:14.757 --> 00:20:18.747
If your team aren't free to act,
they can't deliver the promises
00:20:18.747 --> 00:20:20.497
that you make, if that makes sense.
00:20:20.597 --> 00:20:21.372
Of course it makes sense.
00:20:21.472 --> 00:20:22.262
Sonya, well
00:20:22.262 --> 00:20:22.652
Speaker: done.
00:20:22.742 --> 00:20:23.012
That was
00:20:23.012 --> 00:20:23.462
Speaker 2: a lovely
00:20:23.462 --> 00:20:24.152
Speaker: explanation.
00:20:24.252 --> 00:20:25.352
See that, that, that's really true.
00:20:25.382 --> 00:20:28.522
I've, I've worked in horrible places
where no one knew what they were doing,
00:20:28.622 --> 00:20:31.752
and I worked in places with there was
one restaurant I worked in, in London
00:20:31.852 --> 00:20:35.192
and we pulled the tips and the manager.
00:20:35.292 --> 00:20:38.972
The power hungry manager would be
like, if you guys don't speed up
00:20:39.072 --> 00:20:41.832
I'm gonna employ someone else and
everyone would like work a bit harder.
00:20:41.922 --> 00:20:45.022
And it, that might make it sound like
the boiler room or something, but
00:20:45.122 --> 00:20:49.872
everybody just like had their shit
together so much and it moved so fast.
00:20:49.872 --> 00:20:55.302
And sometimes at lunchtime we'd turn the
restaurant three times and the just the.
00:20:55.402 --> 00:20:57.922
This and, and every, it was
up to everybody on the floor.
00:20:58.022 --> 00:21:02.152
Like the manager would run food and
like write our paychecks, but it was
00:21:02.152 --> 00:21:03.952
like kind of up to us to self organise.
00:21:03.952 --> 00:21:06.832
I didn't know what self organising was
in those days, but that's what we did.
00:21:06.932 --> 00:21:08.282
It was an amazing experience.
00:21:08.382 --> 00:21:12.512
One thing before we go, is there, I think
there's, and you can push back on this,
00:21:12.512 --> 00:21:17.562
but I, I think people sometimes do things
to, in the hope that it looks like, i'm
00:21:17.562 --> 00:21:19.512
gonna give you a cupcake to say thank you.
00:21:19.612 --> 00:21:21.962
And it's not really a spontaneous actor.
00:21:21.992 --> 00:21:26.272
It's not like that thing with moving the
place, setting for a left-handed person.
00:21:26.332 --> 00:21:29.682
It's like a, it's like a gimmick
versus like genuine, you know,
00:21:29.782 --> 00:21:31.072
observation and connection.
00:21:31.172 --> 00:21:34.892
And how do you make sure
you are not pretending to be
00:21:34.892 --> 00:21:36.512
hospitable, that you actually are.
00:21:36.612 --> 00:21:40.207
Speaker 3: I, I think that there
is a misunderstanding between.
00:21:40.307 --> 00:21:46.537
The staff and the, the behaviour that
matters personally, I think thinking that
00:21:46.537 --> 00:21:52.347
Sonya and I are very lucky to travel a
lot and we see lots of different examples
00:21:52.347 --> 00:21:57.092
of service can genuinely say the ones
where that we have talked to about.
00:21:57.192 --> 00:21:59.202
To other people and that's what we want.
00:21:59.302 --> 00:22:03.032
So what we want from Unreasonable
Hospitality is these magical stories
00:22:03.032 --> 00:22:06.452
that we will share with other people
that inspire them, that they remember.
00:22:06.552 --> 00:22:08.142
' cause we remember stories.
00:22:08.242 --> 00:22:10.192
And we want them to refer back to us.
00:22:10.192 --> 00:22:14.472
That again, the stories that we've shared
are probably of things that have happened
00:22:14.472 --> 00:22:19.202
to us that have either cost nothing
at all, or you know, a couple of quid.
00:22:19.302 --> 00:22:23.082
You know, like a coffee or something
like that's happened where someone has
00:22:23.082 --> 00:22:28.752
kind of, gone outta their way to help
you or to greet you or to remember
00:22:28.752 --> 00:22:34.082
something or to note your situation
that you are in or something like that.
00:22:34.182 --> 00:22:39.112
It's almost never about the
stuff that we sit on and, and
00:22:39.112 --> 00:22:41.132
I know I think that there is.
00:22:41.232 --> 00:22:47.327
Within the coworking industry that there
can be like an a, an emphasis or an
00:22:47.327 --> 00:22:50.947
imbalance perhaps on the environment.
00:22:50.947 --> 00:22:52.177
Focus on the environment.
00:22:52.177 --> 00:22:55.867
And I've got a great coffee machine, I've
got great sofas, I've got, you know, cool
00:22:55.867 --> 00:22:58.727
lighting or you know, the, whatever it is.
00:22:58.727 --> 00:22:58.737
And.
00:22:58.837 --> 00:23:04.577
If you don't have the experience of, you
don't have that hospitality that matches
00:23:04.577 --> 00:23:08.837
that, then it's, it's, I think you used
the expression earlier, Bernie, being
00:23:08.837 --> 00:23:14.227
soulless that you can have this fantastic
space, but it's not gonna be fantastic.
00:23:14.227 --> 00:23:15.307
It's just gonna be a shell.
00:23:15.307 --> 00:23:18.487
It's just gonna be things that people
sit on and they will remember the.
00:23:18.587 --> 00:23:22.947
Experience that they had perhaps somewhere
else where someone remembered their name,
00:23:22.947 --> 00:23:27.067
they remembered their birthday, they
saw that they were drenched that morning
00:23:27.067 --> 00:23:31.377
in the rain and like brought them a hot
chocolate or something to warm them up,
00:23:31.377 --> 00:23:35.547
or, you know, whatever that is, that's,
they're the moments that get remembered.
00:23:35.607 --> 00:23:39.917
Not the fact that there's a, a cool
saver in the corner or whatever it is.
00:23:40.017 --> 00:23:42.997
Speaker: Yeah, there's a guy called,
there's a guy called James who in
00:23:42.997 --> 00:23:47.472
Manchester who runs Clockwise and he is
on Substack and he, I, I don't know if he
00:23:47.472 --> 00:23:49.392
actually does, but I, I would do this too.
00:23:49.452 --> 00:23:51.892
He, like, I know you're not supposed
to make people do things, but he
00:23:51.892 --> 00:23:56.592
makes all his staff watch at Bear
and reads Anthony Bourdain and
00:23:56.692 --> 00:23:58.402
Practise Unreasonable Hospitality.
00:23:58.502 --> 00:24:01.662
And I feel if I went in there
which is just a coworking space,
00:24:01.762 --> 00:24:03.112
like it would all, all that.
00:24:03.212 --> 00:24:04.652
All the real deal will be happening.
00:24:04.752 --> 00:24:08.542
Whereas if I go somewhere else, there'd be
the same things happening, but it would be
00:24:08.542 --> 00:24:13.242
like a probably ticking off on a clipboard
somewhere to remember they had to do them.
00:24:13.342 --> 00:24:16.232
Do you wanna, is there anything you wanna
add before we head for the Hills, Sonya?
00:24:16.332 --> 00:24:16.992
Speaker 5: Thanks Bernie.
00:24:16.992 --> 00:24:18.012
Yeah, I do actually.
00:24:18.012 --> 00:24:22.302
We are running, a two day event
in Central London just outside of
00:24:22.302 --> 00:24:24.802
Holburn on the 10th and 11th of June.
00:24:24.802 --> 00:24:26.572
And we've got our friend Dr.
00:24:26.572 --> 00:24:29.652
JJ Peterson coming over to run
the two day workshop with us.
00:24:29.652 --> 00:24:33.082
Day one is around StoryBrand, so we
are gonna be working on brand scripts.
00:24:33.092 --> 00:24:37.392
For the attendees and they're gonna leave
with a Brown script at the end of day one.
00:24:37.492 --> 00:24:40.942
And then day two we've got an
unreasonable hospitality day.
00:24:40.942 --> 00:24:43.792
And you know, Bernie, you've been along
from one of those training sessions.
00:24:43.792 --> 00:24:47.742
We delivered at Urban MBA last year
and it was a taster session there.
00:24:47.742 --> 00:24:51.007
We've got a full day session, so we
are working through each of those touch
00:24:51.007 --> 00:24:54.697
points, looking for some audacious ideas
for people to be able to put into their
00:24:54.697 --> 00:24:57.787
business as well as kind of focusing on
the low hanging fruit and ways that they
00:24:57.787 --> 00:24:59.947
can elevate each of those experiences.
00:25:00.047 --> 00:25:04.507
And both workshops are brilliant
for us to deliver the Unreasonable
00:25:04.507 --> 00:25:06.977
Hospitality Day is really exciting.
00:25:07.057 --> 00:25:10.327
As far as I'm know, this is the first
one to be delivered in the uk and
00:25:10.327 --> 00:25:14.827
certainly the first one with JJ who wrote
the training course with Wil Guera.
00:25:14.927 --> 00:25:17.537
And we are really super
excited about delivering this.
00:25:17.537 --> 00:25:19.697
It's a fantastic two day experience.
00:25:19.797 --> 00:25:23.987
And I think that coworking spaces
are gonna be able to get a lot out
00:25:24.047 --> 00:25:26.337
of both days or one of the days.
00:25:26.337 --> 00:25:27.987
You know, they could come to
the story brand day or they
00:25:27.987 --> 00:25:30.507
could come to the Unreasonable
Hospitality Day gonna be snacks.
00:25:30.607 --> 00:25:32.197
Julie, are there gonna be snacks?
00:25:32.297 --> 00:25:33.167
Speaker 6: Definitely.
00:25:33.227 --> 00:25:33.767
Definitely.
00:25:33.767 --> 00:25:35.897
It's about unreasonable
hospitality, isn't it?
00:25:35.927 --> 00:25:36.167
Yeah.
00:25:36.167 --> 00:25:40.137
There's snacks, there's teas, there's
coffees, there's even a hot lunch.
00:25:40.237 --> 00:25:42.667
And I thi I think
actually one you think I,
00:25:42.667 --> 00:25:45.552
Speaker 4: A hot lunch could be a
whole variety of like, you know,
00:25:45.652 --> 00:25:47.702
like, is that a Greg sausage roll or a
00:25:47.802 --> 00:25:48.702
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, this
00:25:48.802 --> 00:25:49.642
Speaker 5: come and see.
00:25:49.672 --> 00:25:50.787
Speaker 6: Sit down Hot lunch.
00:25:50.887 --> 00:25:54.977
Full sit, land hot lunch in
the DeVere restaurant on site.
00:25:55.077 --> 00:25:58.467
One of the most valuable things about
doing these workshops is so you get
00:25:58.467 --> 00:26:02.167
to sit around the table with half
a dozen other people in your small
00:26:02.167 --> 00:26:04.447
group and bounce ideas off of them.
00:26:04.547 --> 00:26:08.937
And that's the beauty of, of being in the
room, networking with other people coming
00:26:08.937 --> 00:26:10.537
out with, what do you think to this?
00:26:10.537 --> 00:26:11.377
Do you think this will work?
00:26:11.377 --> 00:26:12.612
And you've got your own little kind of.
00:26:12.712 --> 00:26:14.452
Focus group ready made there.
00:26:14.552 --> 00:26:15.837
And that's, that's where you see the real.
00:26:15.937 --> 00:26:19.442
Kind of magic happen that by the end
of the day end of day one, you leave
00:26:19.442 --> 00:26:22.322
with a really clear message about
what you're doing for your business.
00:26:22.422 --> 00:26:27.132
And by day the end of day two, you
know how to put that message into
00:26:27.132 --> 00:26:31.122
action through what you're delivering
through your customer experience.
00:26:31.212 --> 00:26:33.067
So, can't wait to welcome you with that.
00:26:33.167 --> 00:26:35.887
Speaker 4: Who, if I run a
business, who are the best people?
00:26:35.987 --> 00:26:38.997
Who are the best people from my
business to send to this event?
00:26:39.097 --> 00:26:43.027
Is it the finance controller or is it
the, I've run out words, but like who's,
00:26:43.087 --> 00:26:44.357
Speaker 6: who's, it's a good question.
00:26:44.457 --> 00:26:44.817
Yeah.
00:26:44.917 --> 00:26:47.057
I think anyone that has
customer touchpoint.
00:26:47.157 --> 00:26:48.087
Is the answer.
00:26:48.117 --> 00:26:52.487
And that's, you know, can't all down,
down tools and shut up shop for the day.
00:26:52.587 --> 00:26:55.797
But I think it really does help to
have a variety of different people.
00:26:55.797 --> 00:26:58.377
We've worked with one business
before where they had a
00:26:58.377 --> 00:27:00.547
barista, they had the founder.
00:27:00.647 --> 00:27:05.807
They had the ops manager, they
had their HR manager and a couple
00:27:05.807 --> 00:27:07.007
of other people in there as well.
00:27:07.007 --> 00:27:10.587
So it was quite big coworking
business with multiple sites, so
00:27:10.587 --> 00:27:12.567
they had that at their disposal.
00:27:12.667 --> 00:27:17.017
But I think if the more of a mix of
different perspectives you have in
00:27:17.017 --> 00:27:18.937
there that the more valuable it is
00:27:19.037 --> 00:27:19.787
Speaker 5: and actually.
00:27:19.887 --> 00:27:22.527
I was gonna say Ben you mentioned,
you know, the financial controller
00:27:22.527 --> 00:27:25.657
and I thinking that was a little
bit tongue in cheek, but genuinely
00:27:25.757 --> 00:27:30.257
we have had a, we've delivered this
workshop to a team of people where
00:27:30.317 --> 00:27:34.427
if you know someone from finance and
someone from Com compliance was there.
00:27:34.527 --> 00:27:38.547
And actually it was so fascinating
'cause the experience that they had.
00:27:38.647 --> 00:27:41.557
You know, was a very different
experience to the people who were
00:27:41.557 --> 00:27:43.177
on the, on the front end of things.
00:27:43.177 --> 00:27:46.057
But actually when we went through the
kind of customer journey mapping and
00:27:46.057 --> 00:27:50.547
looking at all the touch points for the
customers, the finance side of things
00:27:50.547 --> 00:27:53.977
tended to be very you know, kind of a
negative experience for the customer.
00:27:54.077 --> 00:27:57.557
And so actually in some ways, having
someone from your finance department.
00:27:57.657 --> 00:28:02.607
You know, is absolutely a good place
to start because you can elevate those
00:28:02.607 --> 00:28:06.177
negative touch points really well by ha
by including those people from the team.
00:28:06.177 --> 00:28:09.582
So I, you know, I think definitely
front of house people, definitely
00:28:09.582 --> 00:28:14.252
management, but actually there is
value in having as Julie said, anybody
00:28:14.252 --> 00:28:18.412
who has a point with the customer
could add value to the experience
00:28:18.412 --> 00:28:19.842
that you have in in your business.
00:28:19.942 --> 00:28:20.332
Speaker 4: I agree.
00:28:20.432 --> 00:28:23.717
And there's, there's other times
where I've been to events or
00:28:23.747 --> 00:28:25.097
workshops and I've come back.
00:28:25.097 --> 00:28:29.047
There's like me and one other person and
we've had to like sell the whole idea
00:28:29.047 --> 00:28:32.747
of the workshop to 50 people who don't
really know what we're talking about.
00:28:32.747 --> 00:28:34.557
They just know we were not
in the building for the day.
00:28:34.657 --> 00:28:36.227
So, the more people in there, the better.
00:28:36.327 --> 00:28:36.717
Okay.
00:28:36.817 --> 00:28:39.827
Where we can put a link in
the show notes to all of that.
00:28:39.927 --> 00:28:41.577
Where can we find you folks online?
00:28:41.677 --> 00:28:47.727
Speaker 5: You can find us on our
website at www dot story 20 co do uk.
00:28:47.827 --> 00:28:51.677
Speaker 4: So folks there's a link in the
show notes to the workshop and we'll also
00:28:51.677 --> 00:28:55.277
put that in the London Coworking Assembly
Newsletter and the Coworking Values
00:28:55.377 --> 00:29:00.317
podcast newsletter and we'll keep updating
the details there and wherever we are in
00:29:00.317 --> 00:29:02.097
the world, folks, be careful out there.
00:29:02.127 --> 00:29:03.327
It is a jungle.
00:29:03.327 --> 00:29:04.677
Thanks for your time and attention today.
00:29:04.777 --> 00:29:05.467
Say goodbye.
00:29:05.567 --> 00:29:06.737
Speaker 5: Goodbye.
00:29:06.837 --> 00:29:07.647
Speaker 14: And we're back in the room.
00:29:07.647 --> 00:29:11.277
So as ever, go to the show notes
and there's links to everything
00:29:11.277 --> 00:29:15.007
we spoke about in this podcast and
even more so, there's a link to the
00:29:15.007 --> 00:29:17.047
workshop with Sonya, Julie and Dr.
00:29:17.047 --> 00:29:19.537
JJ Peterson, which is in June in London.
00:29:19.537 --> 00:29:23.817
And if you put in the Code
Coworking values you'll get a mate
00:29:23.847 --> 00:29:25.957
rate for attending that workshop.
00:29:26.057 --> 00:29:29.307
Honestly, StoryBrand is one of
the best in-person workshops
00:29:29.307 --> 00:29:30.597
I've ever done in my life.
00:29:30.697 --> 00:29:33.667
And also a lot of you reading
this will know how important that
00:29:33.727 --> 00:29:36.937
Unreasonable Hospitality book is to
any business, but especially people
00:29:36.937 --> 00:29:41.167
trying to figure out how to make their
co-working space more hospitable.
00:29:41.227 --> 00:29:44.707
So also, I'm reading through my list
here and I've really lost my thread.
00:29:44.807 --> 00:29:48.797
There is European Coworking Day,
which is on May the sixth, and it's
00:29:48.857 --> 00:29:51.107
an annual event this year, 2026.
00:29:51.107 --> 00:29:51.917
It's May the sixth.
00:29:51.947 --> 00:29:55.107
And that's the opportunity for
you to invite people from your
00:29:55.107 --> 00:29:56.817
neighbourhood into the building.
00:29:56.847 --> 00:30:00.357
There's a link in the show notes to
a post that says the six things you
00:30:00.357 --> 00:30:02.037
can Do, which are really, really easy.
00:30:02.037 --> 00:30:03.597
People always overthink it.
00:30:03.597 --> 00:30:07.477
But as an industry, we need to
articulate the value of our co-working
00:30:07.477 --> 00:30:10.697
spaces or our neighbourhood spaces
or our work clubs, whatever you wanna
00:30:10.697 --> 00:30:12.117
call them, to our neighbourhood.
00:30:12.117 --> 00:30:16.357
It's a really, really important part
of the role we play in a neighbourhood.
00:30:16.387 --> 00:30:20.107
And we'll be talking about that at
the Flexor conference the 12th of May,
00:30:20.207 --> 00:30:24.327
which is in London, where there's a
panel which will explore that very same
00:30:24.327 --> 00:30:25.887
thing with podcast guests from here.
00:30:25.987 --> 00:30:29.107
Last of all, there is the LinkedIn
Coworking group and a lot of stuff we
00:30:29.107 --> 00:30:32.737
talk about in here, the link to the
event I just spoke about is in there.
00:30:32.837 --> 00:30:37.287
And also people are always posting threads
and other people post their podcasts in
00:30:37.287 --> 00:30:39.657
there and it's a great place to connect.
00:30:39.657 --> 00:30:42.657
So the more people that take part in
that, as you know, community builders,
00:30:42.757 --> 00:30:45.577
the more people that take part in a
community, the more valuable it is.
00:30:45.677 --> 00:30:46.637
I'm gonna leave you there.
00:30:46.737 --> 00:30:48.447
Wherever you're in the
world, be careful out there.
00:30:48.507 --> 00:30:49.677
It is a jungle.