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Welcome to the Crispin Commentary, Daily Mortgage News Podcast.
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Live from Dulles Airport, Washington, D.C., I'm your host, Robbie Crispin.
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Topics on today's episode include a little industry mailbag.
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While we're seeing some dramatic numbers on mortgage applications, I think you can probably understand why.
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And my interview with Fairway Independent Mortgages, Steve Jacobson, on the evolving nature of mortgage lending, product expansion, leadership, and more.
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Here.
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Take a listen to a little preview.
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When we think product mix and where the industry is headed, obviously non-QM has proliferated greatly recently.
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Is it as simple as saying non-QM or within non-QM?
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Are there different ways to underwrite?
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When you think about the evolving product mix, how do you view it?
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Well, okay, so we all know when the rates were, let's say, 3%, is that person he or she going to buy another house today?
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Maybe yes, maybe no, right?
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But how many people maybe as an investor maybe buy five, six houses this year?
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So it's almost like, how do you think about it?
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I mean, if you think about the, you know, we're kind of addicted to the deals.
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When the rates are good, we just go to our database, we just go there.
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But when you're not, you better market whether it be on Facebook, whether it be on some, however, with investor groups, because there's investors buying houses.
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You might say a dude right now just close a little close a loan with six six loans, one deal, one situation.
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So you you got to kind of shift how you think about this because you know, been doing this since the 80s.
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You know, you see a lot of shifts.
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And you can sense the shift now is in the non-QM world.
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All mortgagees, not just fairway.
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I mean, IMBs, there should not, there should not be an IMB or a mortgage person.
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He or she should have 30 to 40 percent of their data of their pipeline should be non-QM.
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There isn't there isn't price pressures there.
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It isn't that way.
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That's how it's what people have to do to get a loan.
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And so to me, it's a shift mentally first.
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Because you say, well, what's the shift?
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How are you gonna market that?
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It's not so much to understand the product.
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Product, this isn't brain surgery.
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The product's gonna bullet point chest checkles, not that complicated.
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But the question is, how do you market to that client?
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Well, there's ways.
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You in all mortgages know ways to market to that client.
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Well, that's part of it.
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That's the shift.
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This week's podcasts are presented by Gateless, intelligent automation that gives you the competitive edge.
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Gateless solutions reduce costs, deliver a superior borrower experience, and mitigate risks by automating tasks and decisions historically made by people.
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To learn more, visit gateless.com.
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The companies still have mailrooms and mailbags.
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Let's dip into my electronic mailbag and see what some readers are thinking about.
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One person wrote the administration has a choice in housing, keep prices high and protect existing owners, or let prices fall and restore affordability for the next generation.
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You can't do both.
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I agree.
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Regarding the new credit models, it seems like the one direct thing nobody wants to ask out loud is quote, if you pull a set of FICO scores and decide they are too low, you pull a set of anti scores and they barely qualify.
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So you go with that.
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Is that fraud?
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How's that different than seeing a child support on a pay stub?
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So the LO just obtains a VOE and hope they don't write it.
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Good question.
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The Trump administration is accusing other countries of stealing our AI.
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Can't we ask our own AI how to make itself immune to that and stop it?
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Good question.
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I don't know.
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Sell first and ask questions later.
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The bond sell-off has intensified even as economic data has softened, revealing a growing disconnect between weaker growth and persistent upward pressure on long-term yields.
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Consumer confidence fell and JOLT's openings dropped to 7.08 million.
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Yet the 10-year finished yesterday at 5.26%, and the 30-year reached 5.62%.
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Its highest level since 2002.
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With MBS losing roughly a quarter of a point and the two's tense curves deepening to 37 basis points.
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We're seeing heavy corporate issuance, convexity hedging positioning, and concerns over inflation and federal borrowing continue to pressure the long end of the yield curve.
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Fed President Williams said there was no urgency after September's hike and that policymakers could gather more information, while Governor Barr emphasized recalibrating policy to balance employment and inflation risks and return inflation to 2% in a timely manner.
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With rates technically oversold but lacking dip buying impetus, the market needs either clear evidence of economic deterioration or a meaningful shift in the inflation or Fed outlook to sustain a rally.
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Resilient AI investment and risk asset wealth effects continue to support growth, making Wednesday's PCE data and Friday's payrolls the key near-term tests for whether the long-end sell-off can finally lose momentum.
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For today's interview, I wanted to welcome back to the show, Fairway Independent Mortgages, Steve Jacobson, to talk about the evolving nature of mortgage lending, product expansion, leadership, and more.
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He's founder and CEO of Fairway Independent Mortgage Corporation, overseeing and directing all business operations for the company's full service mortgage lending operation.
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Founded Fairway just over 30 years ago in April of 1996 and has grown into one of the largest lenders in America.
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I want to start by taking a pulse out there of the industry.
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And before I talk about consolidation or shifts in the channels and all that sort of thing, just the mood from your end.
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Obviously, rates have gone up.
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Maybe the spring or summer home buying season didn't quite materialize this year, but there's still business to be one for people that want to work hard.
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When you look at the overall temperature of the mortgage industry as we come up on MBA annual here, what's it look like from your seat?
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I think a lot of it's just how you look at stuff.
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I mean, I don't think anyone, uh just like you to your point, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, did anybody expect the third, fourth quarter of 2026 to be this way?
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The answer is probably no.
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Right.
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So the challenge for all mortgagees, all of us, is just it's just a shift mentally.
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I mean, for me personally, when you know, originating it with double-digit interest rates, it's really just about how you look at stuff.
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There is business out there, you got to do things.
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I mean, you got to work, you got to market with being on social media or whatever you're gonna do.
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You have to be, you have to lean into it.
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There's a lot of uh different ways to do that.
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I'm sure everybody's got their own pulse on how the how-to.
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Uh, but to me, it's just a shift mentally.
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It's not, honestly, it's not that big of a deal.
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What do you feel like Fairway's doing well currently?
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And how are you with the business?
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I think with us and it has been you you learn from your experiences, you learn from what you go through, and you got to pivot and you always got to stay curious.
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I mean, I think the curiosity part of this industry is fun for all of us mortgagees.
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You got to stay curious, you got to say, let's adapt, let's go, let's do this, let's do that, let's let's pivot quick, let's try this, let's try that.
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And I think that our speed of pivoting is, you know, I mean, I'm sure everyone mortgagee feels they're they're the best at it.
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It's just a daily discipline that you, you know, it's not it's one thing to talk about something, it's another thing to do it.
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And so the daily pivot, having to pivot, doing this, do that.
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I think a lot of it's just bringing positive energy to to your markets.
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Um, I mean, there's people in in every company that are still busy.
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How why are they busy?
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What are they doing?
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I mean, you can learn from each other, and that's part of the discipline is staying curious and learning.
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Yeah.
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So in that vein, product mix, technology, recruiting, where's your focus been recently?
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I think it's all of it.
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I think product mix is a is a shift mental to the non-QM space.
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I mean, I've been in this business for a minute, and you go to your market and ask them if they haven't gotten if any of their people haven't gotten a loan in the last year or that couldn't qualify because of this, this, this, there's an opportunity for all of us mortgagees that have been in the business for a while.
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Because there is.
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You know, that loan can't be done through AI.
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You have to explain to people what a bank statement loan is or how it works, or I mean, you it there's an education process you've got to go through.
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And so I, you know, to me, it's just a shift mentally.
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And, you know, it's kind of like if you're gonna learn how to shoot free throws, you don't go to a the worst free throw shooter in your company.
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You go to the people that are the best and you say, How are you doing it?
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And some markets are doing great with that.
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And I think that's part of it is staying curious, staying open-minded.
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As a loan officer, we hate being told what to do.
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You tell us black, we're gonna say white, but if you show us stuff, we may pick and choose and say, Oh, I think that makes sense for me and let's roll.
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So you threw out the phrase AI can't do that.
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And some people would say, well, AI will eventually be able to do that.
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What do you find as the mix between incorporating advanced technology or agentics into some of your processes versus like I'm putting a line in the sand of this is going to be a human-controlled process?
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Because the last thing we want to do is be saying, well, that's not how we're doing, and then the whole industry has shifted and suddenly we're we're behind.
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I just think everybody's well, I shouldn't say everybody because everybody's got their own opinions.
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Keeping an open mind is important.
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I mean, there's like a wide lane right now of change in the industry, and everybody's jumping through that wide lane.
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Who's right and who's wrong?
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Who knows?
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You know, you don't have to be the first in front of anything, everything to be the winner of anything.
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I mean, you look at Microsoft, their history, you look at Walmart, their history, were they first?
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No, they weren't.
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Sam Walton went and researched a lot of the competitors.
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Um, Microsoft did the same.
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So I mean, it's like anything.
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Every company's got an idea of what it is, and some are further ahead than others.
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I think we're all curious, and and we've all had successes in the first part of the year of some of the refinances that can be done through AI, setting up appointments, but it's not licensed.
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So you still you still got to be somebody dealing with people some somewhere.
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And to me, that's all exciting.
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It's kind of fun.
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It's a it's a it's an energizing thought to see where that can circle for this whole industry.
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You've obviously been a very prescient man, very successful man.
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You built this company.
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The play the last couple of years was made we'll buy a servicing and build our servicing book.
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You got rid of your TPO channel back in 2020.
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For when we see, when we think about where things are moving, where are you skating toward?
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Well, maybe I'll use a basketball analogy.
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Where is the next pass headed?
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What is what are you moving toward?
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Well, I think every mortgagee is is probably circling because of the the because of we're all swiping to the left.
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We're all boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, going fast.
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To me, you have to service the loans.
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You have to, because you could have a portal where you can do this, this, this, all in one website, one place.
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And I think every mortgagee says, I want to service loans.
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I cannot imagine any mortgagee saying, I don't think that's a big deal.
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So servicing loans, where maybe it wasn't as big a deal pre-COVID, because now the biggest thing with people and you anything you read or look at is trust.
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Who do they trust?
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Well, you bet you better service, you better be servicing your own loans and working towards that.
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And a lot of mortgagees are.
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So I think servicing is a is a huge deal.
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Then the next thing that everybody's got to be circling is cybersecurity.
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Think about it.
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What's going on with AI on the bad side?
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What can happen to any mortgagee if they don't have the right stuff in place?
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So it's it's an interesting time.
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There's a lot of people who are tired.
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I think it's hard to be small.
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I mean, the small mortgagee, the small broker.
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I mean, how do you protect this, this, this?
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How do you do this, this, this?
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How do you scale this, this, this?
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How do you do it?
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All those are things everybody's talking through.
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And, you know, it's probably what keeps us all in this industry because it's never easy.
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There's been this rise of direct to consumer, which to me sounds a lot like retail, but it has to do with servicing.
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You closed the wholesale TPO channel a year or two ago.
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When we think about the composition of channels out there in the industry, what do you see rising?
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What do you see falling?
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Where are you focused?
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You know, I think it's the loan officer is still going to win.
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The person wins that has a relationship with the with the with the one with the person with the most friends, most contacts, he or she's gonna still win.
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I mean, it's still that industry where people, it's still a big deal for people buying a house.
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And so the loan officer, he or she is still the winner.
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The one with the consumer, the connection.
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We had a, for example, we had a um uh nonprofit thing this week in Madison for cancer.
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And there's over 4,000 people there.
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I mean, come on, to compete, I mean, to build relationships to be part of something like that.
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Any market, any mortgagee that's giving in the nonprofit world, we get to meet people off social media and just relationship driven, it's still about trust.
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And so I just think the loan officer, he or she in markets that is still going to be the winner, no matter what the channel is.
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How does, I mean, how does AI compete with a nonprofit event where there's 4,000 people?
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And it'd be great if everybody had credit scores of 850, but people don't, not everybody does.
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You watch some of the stuff that happens on a daily basis behind the scenes on loans, it's not easy.
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If it was all easy, we'd all just do AI and be done with it.
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But it's not, it just doesn't work that way.
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I do appreciate where we are in this rate environment because there aren't easy loans out there.
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People got to wake up, grind, go work.
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It's got the the industry is going to go to those that are willing to put in the effort.
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And so it sounds like you're well positioned there.
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Let me step back from that statement and say when you think about leadership and leading people in these modern times, things you've learned as a leader, how you are continuing to lead, lead from the front at Fairway?
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Leadership's an ongoing for everyone, is a learning process.
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We in the industry deal with spikes each day.
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What's a spike?
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Some buyer, seller, realtor, employee.
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People get pissed off.
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Quick, quick, quick.
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You know, it's everything's good when things are good.
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The question is, what happens when things aren't so straight line?
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And this industry is not a straight line.
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So the question is it's a very competitive industry.
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People don't like each other.
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I remember there was a day back when Daniel Harkovy had building champions and all the CEOs got together in a round table.
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It honestly worked out great.
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And I could name the CEOs, the great guys and gals.
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And you know, if we had an issue, we just talked to each other through that.
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It's it's got a lot more cutthroat.
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That part of the industry I'm not much of a fan of.
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I don't really care.
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It's just competitive or whatever.
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Who cares?
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But um the industry is is becoming smaller, but you got to be able to scale.
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So, how do you scale?
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Because you gotta be you got to have systems in this vast world that we're in, you better have systems for speed.
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And I'm talking speed for closings, I'm talking speed for servicing, I'm talking the consumer.
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I mean, right now, Robbie, as good a person as you are, if you want something done and you text somebody, how quick before you're pissed off where they don't get back to you?
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Depends on the text, but if it's something urgent, you know, 20, 30 minutes, I'd be pretty upset.
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Well, then you're a pretty nice guy.
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Yeah, 20, 30 minutes.
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Okay, that then you're you're nicer than your dad.
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Okay.
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.039
Well, I'm coming in.
00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.879
But I mean, but the point is that this industry is about speed.
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.360
You're somebody's at a closing, something goes wrong.
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.120
How fast you get back to them?
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:54.799
All of us are in this.
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:59.679
If we're gonna be in this game, we better recognize you better have systems for speed across the board.
00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:10.399
I do think with all the chatter about cost to originate, time is money, and whoever can get that time down is going to be the one that saves on the cost to originate.
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.519
Let me close with something fun here.
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:17.519
You we obviously used a basketball analogy earlier.
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:23.120
People know that you are a true basketball savant.
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:29.679
Lessons learned from your basketball career, watching basketball that apply to the modern mortgage market for you.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.919
My basketball career was embarrassing, so it's not really much to talk about there.
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:37.679
I'd say the precious present.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.480
There's a coach that was, I'll just share the story.
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.879
There was a coach that um was the head coach of Wisconsin for 14 years.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.879
And he was an when he when I was in high school, he was an assistant coach at Wisconsin.
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.000
His name's Bo Ryan.
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.720
And actually, Bo Ryan's first cousin uh works for us in in Georgia.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:55.840
His name's Richard Ryan.
00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.159
But anyhow, Bo, I remember never forget.
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:00.000
And you say, Why do you chair the story?
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:00.879
So I'll never forget.
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:05.680
There's a guy that played in the NBA for nine years and he won two NBA championship rings with the Lakers.
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.119
And back in those days, we guarded people full court, man to man.
00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:10.480
That's how practice was.
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.880
And he went by me so quick the first time.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:20.559
I mean, I'll just say it this way: in seven years at Wisconsin, the head coach had two white guards, and I was poking white kid playing.
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:21.680
I mean, it's just the way it was.
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:27.839
So he he we stopped practice and he he said some very colorful things to me about guarding Wes.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.759
But he talked about the precious present.
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.799
Point is if you don't get your head out of your ass like right now, he's gonna go by you again.
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:41.680
So you better learn, you better adjust, you better pivot, and you better have a good attitude.
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.119
Precious present every minute.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:46.960
So you gotta turn it, you gotta turn it.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:48.799
This industry is about turning it, about pivoting.
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:54.319
And it's one of the best lessons I personally learned from college, and it was in a practice.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:56.480
You know, because he got all on me.
00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.079
He said, dude, get your head out of your ass.
00:17:58.160 --> 00:17:59.599
It's called the precious present.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.079
If you don't get your head out of your ass, he'll go buy you again.
00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.720
And the answer is I had to shift how I guarded him.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.640
He was way too quick if I did face to face.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.440
So I had to, you know, it's like basketball, you had to guard his one shoulder and steer him toward the baseline.
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.440
You could turn him once, and that was how you guarded him full court to get through.
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.160
But I just think that's that's a lesson for all of us.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:19.039
It helped me out.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.160
It still does.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:21.920
So advice, Steve.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.720
You know, I appreciate the time and uh looking forward to seeing you sometime soon.
00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:25.599
All right, sounds good, Robbie.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:26.160
See you in line.
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:26.559
Bye-bye.
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:47.039
Today's economic calendar kicked off with mortgage applications falling six percent in the weekending September 25th, with refinancing down nine percent week over week and a striking 56% below the same week last year, while purchase applications declined 4% seasonally adjusted and 14% year over year.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:59.680
The pullback reflects the impact of mortgage rates rising to their highest level in nearly three years, pushing borrowers to the sidelines and signaling that elevated borrowing costs are increasingly weighing on both housing demand and refinancing activity.
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:21.359
We've also received the September ADP employment change in a 90,000, better than expected, August personal income and spending, income was up 0.2%, spending was up 0.9%, PCE price index, which was up 0.3%, for PCU, which was up 0.2% month over month, and 3% year over year, Q2 GDP, the third estimate, and at 2.2%, and advanced indicators.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:30.319
Later today brings September Chicago PMI and remarks from Fed Governor Cook, Chicago Fed President Goolsby, and Minneapolis Fed President Kashkari.
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:43.039
We begin the day with agency MBS prices improved from Tuesday's close by an eight to a quarter, the two-year yielding 4.83, and the tenure yielding 5.20 after closing yesterday at 5.26%, given the somewhat tame inflation data.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:47.519
Let's wrap up with a joke and some house too.
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:49.440
Inflation is everywhere.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.079
A horse walks into a bar and asks for a coke.
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:56.400
The bartender is very surprised, and he picks up a coke from the fridge and puts it on the counter.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.920
The horse says, Thanks.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:58.799
How much?
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.640
Bartender says, It's like ten to dollars.
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.880
Bartender says, Sorry, but but it it's the very first time a talking horse came into my bar.
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.640
Doris says, First and last, ten dollars for a lousy coat.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.839
Thanks again to Gateless for sponsoring this week's podcast.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:31.759
Gateless has intelligent automation that gives you a competitive edge, reducing costs, delivering a superior borrower experience, and mitigating risks by automating tasks and decisions historically made by people.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.640
To learn more, visit Gateless.com
00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:05.839
Welcome to the Crispin Commentary, Daily Mortgage News Podcast.
00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:10.640
Live from Dulles Airport, Washington, D.C., I'm your host, Robbie Crispin.
00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:16.160
Topics on today's episode include a little industry mailbag.
00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:22.640
While we're seeing some dramatic numbers on mortgage applications, I think you can probably understand why.
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:30.399
And my interview with Fairway Independent Mortgages, Steve Jacobson, on the evolving nature of mortgage lending, product expansion, leadership, and more.
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:31.199
Here.
00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:32.880
Take a listen to a little preview.
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:39.920
When we think product mix and where the industry is headed, obviously non-QM has proliferated greatly recently.
00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.679
Is it as simple as saying non-QM or within non-QM?
00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:45.439
Are there different ways to underwrite?
00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.719
When you think about the evolving product mix, how do you view it?
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:56.560
Well, okay, so we all know when the rates were, let's say, 3%, is that person he or she going to buy another house today?
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:58.560
Maybe yes, maybe no, right?
00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:05.519
But how many people maybe as an investor maybe buy five, six houses this year?
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:07.680
So it's almost like, how do you think about it?
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.959
I mean, if you think about the, you know, we're kind of addicted to the deals.
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.239
When the rates are good, we just go to our database, we just go there.
00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:21.519
But when you're not, you better market whether it be on Facebook, whether it be on some, however, with investor groups, because there's investors buying houses.
00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:27.920
You might say a dude right now just close a little close a loan with six six loans, one deal, one situation.
00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:36.319
So you you got to kind of shift how you think about this because you know, been doing this since the 80s.
00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:38.400
You know, you see a lot of shifts.
00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.319
And you can sense the shift now is in the non-QM world.
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:44.879
All mortgagees, not just fairway.
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:49.599
I mean, IMBs, there should not, there should not be an IMB or a mortgage person.
00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:55.359
He or she should have 30 to 40 percent of their data of their pipeline should be non-QM.
00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:58.560
There isn't there isn't price pressures there.
00:01:58.719 --> 00:01:59.840
It isn't that way.
00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.719
That's how it's what people have to do to get a loan.
00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.159
And so to me, it's a shift mentally first.
00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:08.960
Because you say, well, what's the shift?
00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:10.080
How are you gonna market that?
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:11.680
It's not so much to understand the product.
00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:13.840
Product, this isn't brain surgery.
00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.199
The product's gonna bullet point chest checkles, not that complicated.
00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:20.080
But the question is, how do you market to that client?
00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:21.360
Well, there's ways.
00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:24.639
You in all mortgages know ways to market to that client.
00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:26.560
Well, that's part of it.
00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:28.240
That's the shift.
00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:35.520
This week's podcasts are presented by Gateless, intelligent automation that gives you the competitive edge.
00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:44.960
Gateless solutions reduce costs, deliver a superior borrower experience, and mitigate risks by automating tasks and decisions historically made by people.
00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:47.919
To learn more, visit gateless.com.
00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.199
The companies still have mailrooms and mailbags.
00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.840
Let's dip into my electronic mailbag and see what some readers are thinking about.
00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:07.280
One person wrote the administration has a choice in housing, keep prices high and protect existing owners, or let prices fall and restore affordability for the next generation.
00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:08.719
You can't do both.
00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:10.719
I agree.
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:22.879
Regarding the new credit models, it seems like the one direct thing nobody wants to ask out loud is quote, if you pull a set of FICO scores and decide they are too low, you pull a set of anti scores and they barely qualify.
00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:24.240
So you go with that.
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:25.599
Is that fraud?
00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:29.680
How's that different than seeing a child support on a pay stub?
00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.360
So the LO just obtains a VOE and hope they don't write it.
00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:34.960
Good question.
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:39.360
The Trump administration is accusing other countries of stealing our AI.
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:43.280
Can't we ask our own AI how to make itself immune to that and stop it?
00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:44.719
Good question.
00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:45.919
I don't know.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:50.000
Sell first and ask questions later.
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:59.280
The bond sell-off has intensified even as economic data has softened, revealing a growing disconnect between weaker growth and persistent upward pressure on long-term yields.
00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.759
Consumer confidence fell and JOLT's openings dropped to 7.08 million.
00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:08.960
Yet the 10-year finished yesterday at 5.26%, and the 30-year reached 5.62%.
00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:11.680
Its highest level since 2002.
00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:18.560
With MBS losing roughly a quarter of a point and the two's tense curves deepening to 37 basis points.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:26.720
We're seeing heavy corporate issuance, convexity hedging positioning, and concerns over inflation and federal borrowing continue to pressure the long end of the yield curve.
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:42.000
Fed President Williams said there was no urgency after September's hike and that policymakers could gather more information, while Governor Barr emphasized recalibrating policy to balance employment and inflation risks and return inflation to 2% in a timely manner.
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:55.360
With rates technically oversold but lacking dip buying impetus, the market needs either clear evidence of economic deterioration or a meaningful shift in the inflation or Fed outlook to sustain a rally.
00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:08.000
Resilient AI investment and risk asset wealth effects continue to support growth, making Wednesday's PCE data and Friday's payrolls the key near-term tests for whether the long-end sell-off can finally lose momentum.
00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:20.480
For today's interview, I wanted to welcome back to the show, Fairway Independent Mortgages, Steve Jacobson, to talk about the evolving nature of mortgage lending, product expansion, leadership, and more.
00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:29.839
He's founder and CEO of Fairway Independent Mortgage Corporation, overseeing and directing all business operations for the company's full service mortgage lending operation.
00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:39.040
Founded Fairway just over 30 years ago in April of 1996 and has grown into one of the largest lenders in America.
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:46.000
I want to start by taking a pulse out there of the industry.
00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:52.879
And before I talk about consolidation or shifts in the channels and all that sort of thing, just the mood from your end.
00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:54.399
Obviously, rates have gone up.
00:05:54.480 --> 00:06:02.319
Maybe the spring or summer home buying season didn't quite materialize this year, but there's still business to be one for people that want to work hard.
00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:10.399
When you look at the overall temperature of the mortgage industry as we come up on MBA annual here, what's it look like from your seat?
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.560
I think a lot of it's just how you look at stuff.
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:23.839
I mean, I don't think anyone, uh just like you to your point, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, did anybody expect the third, fourth quarter of 2026 to be this way?
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:25.439
The answer is probably no.
00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:26.000
Right.
00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:30.480
So the challenge for all mortgagees, all of us, is just it's just a shift mentally.
00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:37.360
I mean, for me personally, when you know, originating it with double-digit interest rates, it's really just about how you look at stuff.
00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:39.439
There is business out there, you got to do things.
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.199
I mean, you got to work, you got to market with being on social media or whatever you're gonna do.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:44.800
You have to be, you have to lean into it.
00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.120
There's a lot of uh different ways to do that.
00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.079
I'm sure everybody's got their own pulse on how the how-to.
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.399
Uh, but to me, it's just a shift mentally.
00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:54.639
It's not, honestly, it's not that big of a deal.
00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.839
What do you feel like Fairway's doing well currently?
00:06:58.000 --> 00:06:59.360
And how are you with the business?
00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:06.879
I think with us and it has been you you learn from your experiences, you learn from what you go through, and you got to pivot and you always got to stay curious.
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:11.600
I mean, I think the curiosity part of this industry is fun for all of us mortgagees.
00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:17.920
You got to stay curious, you got to say, let's adapt, let's go, let's do this, let's do that, let's let's pivot quick, let's try this, let's try that.
00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:24.399
And I think that our speed of pivoting is, you know, I mean, I'm sure everyone mortgagee feels they're they're the best at it.
00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:29.519
It's just a daily discipline that you, you know, it's not it's one thing to talk about something, it's another thing to do it.
00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:33.199
And so the daily pivot, having to pivot, doing this, do that.
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.120
I think a lot of it's just bringing positive energy to to your markets.
00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:41.279
Um, I mean, there's people in in every company that are still busy.
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.040
How why are they busy?
00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:43.759
What are they doing?
00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:49.360
I mean, you can learn from each other, and that's part of the discipline is staying curious and learning.
00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:49.759
Yeah.
00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:56.399
So in that vein, product mix, technology, recruiting, where's your focus been recently?
00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:57.439
I think it's all of it.
00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:01.519
I think product mix is a is a shift mental to the non-QM space.
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:14.879
I mean, I've been in this business for a minute, and you go to your market and ask them if they haven't gotten if any of their people haven't gotten a loan in the last year or that couldn't qualify because of this, this, this, there's an opportunity for all of us mortgagees that have been in the business for a while.
00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:16.079
Because there is.
00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.959
You know, that loan can't be done through AI.
00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:26.720
You have to explain to people what a bank statement loan is or how it works, or I mean, you it there's an education process you've got to go through.
00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:29.439
And so I, you know, to me, it's just a shift mentally.
00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:35.120
And, you know, it's kind of like if you're gonna learn how to shoot free throws, you don't go to a the worst free throw shooter in your company.
00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.759
You go to the people that are the best and you say, How are you doing it?
00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.000
And some markets are doing great with that.
00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:43.360
And I think that's part of it is staying curious, staying open-minded.
00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:46.159
As a loan officer, we hate being told what to do.
00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:53.519
You tell us black, we're gonna say white, but if you show us stuff, we may pick and choose and say, Oh, I think that makes sense for me and let's roll.
00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.000
So you threw out the phrase AI can't do that.
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:02.799
And some people would say, well, AI will eventually be able to do that.
00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:15.039
What do you find as the mix between incorporating advanced technology or agentics into some of your processes versus like I'm putting a line in the sand of this is going to be a human-controlled process?
00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:21.840
Because the last thing we want to do is be saying, well, that's not how we're doing, and then the whole industry has shifted and suddenly we're we're behind.
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.840
I just think everybody's well, I shouldn't say everybody because everybody's got their own opinions.
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.440
Keeping an open mind is important.
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:33.919
I mean, there's like a wide lane right now of change in the industry, and everybody's jumping through that wide lane.
00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:35.600
Who's right and who's wrong?
00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:36.879
Who knows?
00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:42.720
You know, you don't have to be the first in front of anything, everything to be the winner of anything.
00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:47.039
I mean, you look at Microsoft, their history, you look at Walmart, their history, were they first?
00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:47.679
No, they weren't.
00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:50.480
Sam Walton went and researched a lot of the competitors.
00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:52.000
Um, Microsoft did the same.
00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:53.840
So I mean, it's like anything.
00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:57.919
Every company's got an idea of what it is, and some are further ahead than others.
00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:10.320
I think we're all curious, and and we've all had successes in the first part of the year of some of the refinances that can be done through AI, setting up appointments, but it's not licensed.
00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:14.399
So you still you still got to be somebody dealing with people some somewhere.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:15.919
And to me, that's all exciting.
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:16.720
It's kind of fun.
00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:22.240
It's a it's a it's an energizing thought to see where that can circle for this whole industry.
00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:27.200
You've obviously been a very prescient man, very successful man.
00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:28.399
You built this company.
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:34.159
The play the last couple of years was made we'll buy a servicing and build our servicing book.
00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:38.320
You got rid of your TPO channel back in 2020.
00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:42.879
For when we see, when we think about where things are moving, where are you skating toward?
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.120
Well, maybe I'll use a basketball analogy.
00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:47.039
Where is the next pass headed?
00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:48.240
What is what are you moving toward?
00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:54.799
Well, I think every mortgagee is is probably circling because of the the because of we're all swiping to the left.
00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:57.279
We're all boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, going fast.
00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.679
To me, you have to service the loans.
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:05.440
You have to, because you could have a portal where you can do this, this, this, all in one website, one place.
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.399
And I think every mortgagee says, I want to service loans.
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:12.799
I cannot imagine any mortgagee saying, I don't think that's a big deal.
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:22.559
So servicing loans, where maybe it wasn't as big a deal pre-COVID, because now the biggest thing with people and you anything you read or look at is trust.
00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:23.919
Who do they trust?
00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:28.559
Well, you bet you better service, you better be servicing your own loans and working towards that.
00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:30.080
And a lot of mortgagees are.
00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:32.559
So I think servicing is a is a huge deal.
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:37.039
Then the next thing that everybody's got to be circling is cybersecurity.
00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:38.399
Think about it.
00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:40.960
What's going on with AI on the bad side?
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:45.279
What can happen to any mortgagee if they don't have the right stuff in place?
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:47.919
So it's it's an interesting time.
00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:49.440
There's a lot of people who are tired.
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:51.360
I think it's hard to be small.
00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:55.360
I mean, the small mortgagee, the small broker.
00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:57.120
I mean, how do you protect this, this, this?
00:11:57.200 --> 00:11:58.159
How do you do this, this, this?
00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.840
How do you scale this, this, this?
00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:01.200
How do you do it?
00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.080
All those are things everybody's talking through.
00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.559
And, you know, it's probably what keeps us all in this industry because it's never easy.
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:15.919
There's been this rise of direct to consumer, which to me sounds a lot like retail, but it has to do with servicing.
00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.480
You closed the wholesale TPO channel a year or two ago.
00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:26.799
When we think about the composition of channels out there in the industry, what do you see rising?
00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:27.759
What do you see falling?
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:28.799
Where are you focused?
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.360
You know, I think it's the loan officer is still going to win.
00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:37.919
The person wins that has a relationship with the with the with the one with the person with the most friends, most contacts, he or she's gonna still win.
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:43.039
I mean, it's still that industry where people, it's still a big deal for people buying a house.
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:46.960
And so the loan officer, he or she is still the winner.
00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:49.840
The one with the consumer, the connection.
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:55.200
We had a, for example, we had a um uh nonprofit thing this week in Madison for cancer.
00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.200
And there's over 4,000 people there.
00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:03.279
I mean, come on, to compete, I mean, to build relationships to be part of something like that.
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:13.840
Any market, any mortgagee that's giving in the nonprofit world, we get to meet people off social media and just relationship driven, it's still about trust.
00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:21.440
And so I just think the loan officer, he or she in markets that is still going to be the winner, no matter what the channel is.
00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:27.200
How does, I mean, how does AI compete with a nonprofit event where there's 4,000 people?
00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:32.559
And it'd be great if everybody had credit scores of 850, but people don't, not everybody does.
00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:37.919
You watch some of the stuff that happens on a daily basis behind the scenes on loans, it's not easy.
00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.440
If it was all easy, we'd all just do AI and be done with it.
00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.759
But it's not, it just doesn't work that way.
00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:50.559
I do appreciate where we are in this rate environment because there aren't easy loans out there.
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.879
People got to wake up, grind, go work.
00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:58.000
It's got the the industry is going to go to those that are willing to put in the effort.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.960
And so it sounds like you're well positioned there.
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:14.080
Let me step back from that statement and say when you think about leadership and leading people in these modern times, things you've learned as a leader, how you are continuing to lead, lead from the front at Fairway?
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:18.480
Leadership's an ongoing for everyone, is a learning process.
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.240
We in the industry deal with spikes each day.
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:23.360
What's a spike?
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.720
Some buyer, seller, realtor, employee.
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:27.759
People get pissed off.
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:28.960
Quick, quick, quick.
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.600
You know, it's everything's good when things are good.
00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.960
The question is, what happens when things aren't so straight line?
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.120
And this industry is not a straight line.
00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.919
So the question is it's a very competitive industry.
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:41.039
People don't like each other.
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:48.000
I remember there was a day back when Daniel Harkovy had building champions and all the CEOs got together in a round table.
00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:49.840
It honestly worked out great.
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.720
And I could name the CEOs, the great guys and gals.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.759
And you know, if we had an issue, we just talked to each other through that.
00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:57.840
It's it's got a lot more cutthroat.
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.000
That part of the industry I'm not much of a fan of.
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:00.799
I don't really care.
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:02.080
It's just competitive or whatever.
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:02.879
Who cares?
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:10.639
But um the industry is is becoming smaller, but you got to be able to scale.
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:12.320
So, how do you scale?
00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:19.120
Because you gotta be you got to have systems in this vast world that we're in, you better have systems for speed.
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.919
And I'm talking speed for closings, I'm talking speed for servicing, I'm talking the consumer.
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:32.240
I mean, right now, Robbie, as good a person as you are, if you want something done and you text somebody, how quick before you're pissed off where they don't get back to you?
00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:37.200
Depends on the text, but if it's something urgent, you know, 20, 30 minutes, I'd be pretty upset.
00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:38.720
Well, then you're a pretty nice guy.
00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:40.000
Yeah, 20, 30 minutes.
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.240
Okay, that then you're you're nicer than your dad.
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:42.639
Okay.
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.039
Well, I'm coming in.
00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.879
But I mean, but the point is that this industry is about speed.
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.360
You're somebody's at a closing, something goes wrong.
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.120
How fast you get back to them?
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:54.799
All of us are in this.
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:59.679
If we're gonna be in this game, we better recognize you better have systems for speed across the board.
00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:10.399
I do think with all the chatter about cost to originate, time is money, and whoever can get that time down is going to be the one that saves on the cost to originate.
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.519
Let me close with something fun here.
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:17.519
You we obviously used a basketball analogy earlier.
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:23.120
People know that you are a true basketball savant.
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:29.679
Lessons learned from your basketball career, watching basketball that apply to the modern mortgage market for you.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.919
My basketball career was embarrassing, so it's not really much to talk about there.
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:37.679
I'd say the precious present.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.480
There's a coach that was, I'll just share the story.
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.879
There was a coach that um was the head coach of Wisconsin for 14 years.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.879
And he was an when he when I was in high school, he was an assistant coach at Wisconsin.
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.000
His name's Bo Ryan.
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.720
And actually, Bo Ryan's first cousin uh works for us in in Georgia.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:55.840
His name's Richard Ryan.
00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.159
But anyhow, Bo, I remember never forget.
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:00.000
And you say, Why do you chair the story?
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:00.879
So I'll never forget.
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:05.680
There's a guy that played in the NBA for nine years and he won two NBA championship rings with the Lakers.
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.119
And back in those days, we guarded people full court, man to man.
00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:10.480
That's how practice was.
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.880
And he went by me so quick the first time.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:20.559
I mean, I'll just say it this way: in seven years at Wisconsin, the head coach had two white guards, and I was poking white kid playing.
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:21.680
I mean, it's just the way it was.
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:27.839
So he he we stopped practice and he he said some very colorful things to me about guarding Wes.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.759
But he talked about the precious present.
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.799
Point is if you don't get your head out of your ass like right now, he's gonna go by you again.
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:41.680
So you better learn, you better adjust, you better pivot, and you better have a good attitude.
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.119
Precious present every minute.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:46.960
So you gotta turn it, you gotta turn it.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:48.799
This industry is about turning it, about pivoting.
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:54.319
And it's one of the best lessons I personally learned from college, and it was in a practice.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:56.480
You know, because he got all on me.
00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.079
He said, dude, get your head out of your ass.
00:17:58.160 --> 00:17:59.599
It's called the precious present.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.079
If you don't get your head out of your ass, he'll go buy you again.
00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.720
And the answer is I had to shift how I guarded him.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.640
He was way too quick if I did face to face.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.440
So I had to, you know, it's like basketball, you had to guard his one shoulder and steer him toward the baseline.
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.440
You could turn him once, and that was how you guarded him full court to get through.
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.160
But I just think that's that's a lesson for all of us.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:19.039
It helped me out.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.160
It still does.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:21.920
So advice, Steve.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.720
You know, I appreciate the time and uh looking forward to seeing you sometime soon.
00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:25.599
All right, sounds good, Robbie.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:26.160
See you in line.
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:26.559
Bye-bye.
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:47.039
Today's economic calendar kicked off with mortgage applications falling six percent in the weekending September 25th, with refinancing down nine percent week over week and a striking 56% below the same week last year, while purchase applications declined 4% seasonally adjusted and 14% year over year.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:59.680
The pullback reflects the impact of mortgage rates rising to their highest level in nearly three years, pushing borrowers to the sidelines and signaling that elevated borrowing costs are increasingly weighing on both housing demand and refinancing activity.
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:21.359
We've also received the September ADP employment change in a 90,000, better than expected, August personal income and spending, income was up 0.2%, spending was up 0.9%, PCE price index, which was up 0.3%, for PCU, which was up 0.2% month over month, and 3% year over year, Q2 GDP, the third estimate, and at 2.2%, and advanced indicators.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:30.319
Later today brings September Chicago PMI and remarks from Fed Governor Cook, Chicago Fed President Goolsby, and Minneapolis Fed President Kashkari.
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:43.039
We begin the day with agency MBS prices improved from Tuesday's close by an eight to a quarter, the two-year yielding 4.83, and the tenure yielding 5.20 after closing yesterday at 5.26%, given the somewhat tame inflation data.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:47.519
Let's wrap up with a joke and some house too.
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:49.440
Inflation is everywhere.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.079
A horse walks into a bar and asks for a coke.
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:56.400
The bartender is very surprised, and he picks up a coke from the fridge and puts it on the counter.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.920
The horse says, Thanks.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:58.799
How much?
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.640
Bartender says, It's like ten to dollars.
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.880
Bartender says, Sorry, but but it it's the very first time a talking horse came into my bar.
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.640
Doris says, First and last, ten dollars for a lousy coat.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.839
Thanks again to Gateless for sponsoring this week's podcast.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:31.759
Gateless has intelligent automation that gives you a competitive edge, reducing costs, delivering a superior borrower experience, and mitigating risks by automating tasks and decisions historically made by people.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.640
To learn more, visit Gateless.com
