WEBVTT
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I'm struggling with the fact that I'm 15, want to be able to drive, but I feel like my life is hopeless and I need someone to help me not feel hopeless in it.
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Hey everyone, I'm Charity.
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And I'm Austin.
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Welcome to the Central Vision Podcast.
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We're two hosts living with vision loss, sharing honest conversations about life through the lens of blindness and low vision.
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From relationships and travel to careers and technology, from family and confidence to accessibility and everything in between.
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We'll share our experiences, ask the questions people are already thinking, laugh through the awkward moments, and explore what it really means to live with vision loss.
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So whether you're living with vision loss yourself, love support, or know someone who is, or you're simply curious, looking for a different perspective, you're in the right place.
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So, Chris, let's get right into it.
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Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
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So I was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, on the west side.
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Um, and I was diagnosed with being visually impaired when I was 10 years old.
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Um, specifically, I had nystagmus and my acuity at the time, I believe my doctor said I was had maybe like 20 over 80 or something like that.
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Um, but it wasn't until I was 16 years old when I was undiagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, um, which we then later on found out is X-linked.
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And so navigating life was definitely a challenge, especially going to Catholic schools and then switching to public schools when I got to high school.
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So it was a big it was big transitions all the way around.
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Uniform, no uniform, absolutely, man.
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That's just gonna feel so fitting.
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No more rulers and bounce coming out, and yeah, exactly.
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So for anyone listening to, and correct me if I'm wrong, it so Nystagnis is the rapid eye movement going like left and right, or is it is it up and down too, or is it left and right, or is it specific?
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Um, I will say for me, it's kind of like up, down, left, right.
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Oh, okay.
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So just like PlayStation.
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You know so so when you're crossing the road, like you're really looking left and right.
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Yeah, essentially.
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Um, so it it is kind of hard to um see things like steadily.
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So yeah, for instance, reading can be a little bit more difficult, I'm sure, and smaller text is obviously harder with anyone with vision loss, but I would assume it gets even harder with that.
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Yeah, no, absolutely.
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It is yeah, it's very difficult.
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Okay.
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Does that make it hard to like watch?
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Um, is it easier when things are for with the Nystagness in particular?
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Does it make it easier to watch, say, movies and stuff if it's further away from you?
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Is it easier to not be interrupted by that movement?
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It's easier when I can see closer because I'm very nearsighted.
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Okay.
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The closer the better.
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But usually when I go to the movies, I have um what's called audio descriptive headphones.
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Okay.
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So it describes the scenes to me.
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And sometimes me and my wife and my friends, we kind of have fun with it based on how the uh narrator describes certain scenes.
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Yeah.
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And I've heard those don't always work either.
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I've heard a lot of uh people in our community say that it's kind of hit and miss, and that's really unfortunate.
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Have you experienced that?
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Oh, yes, depending on which movie theater you go to, um it it's an issue.
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That's too bad.
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Yeah, it sucks.
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I haven't tried it yet, and I'm I'm anxious to try it.
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Yeah, me neither.
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I I think is I think it's worth it, um, because you know, there's some things like when it's like darker scenes that you can't detect or make out.
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Um, it really helps.
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But obviously, if you can see the scenes where it's like brighter light and things like that contrast, you know, it is fine too.
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But you know, if you can see that, fine.
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Yeah.
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But yeah, those darker scenes, it comes in handy very well.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So you said 10 years old is when you're when that you you was you were diagnosed, or is that when you started noticing that something was going on?
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Um, that's when I was officially diagnosed.
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Okay.
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Um, when I noticed things started going on, it was maybe a couple years before then, because um when I was picked to read out loud, like a particular paragraph in one of my classes, and I had the hardest time like reading it out loud because I kept reading slow, but realized because my eyes were moving.
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Right, right.
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Um, you know, the teacher then stopped and was like, okay, you don't have to read anymore.
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So then I felt self-conscious and started thinking, I'm sure.
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Yeah.
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Am I not that bright?
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Am I not what's going on?
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I mean, yeah, at that age you have nothing to compare it to.
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At that age, you just kind of think like maybe everyone's like this, or you know, you're not actually looking at the bigger, the wider scale of everything.
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Right.
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No, absolutely.
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Okay, so going through school for you, was it I'm assuming there were some kind of um but accommodations, like how like getting, I mean, high school's one thing, but getting into college, that would when I was attending college, I didn't, you know, go through my RP, Red Nice Pimitoza.
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I didn't have that going on.
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So I imagine what that would be like, and that sounds just excruciatingly difficult to me.
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What was it like for you?
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Were there a lot of accommodations?
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Was it easy to be in like the social matters of college?
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Like just give us a rundown of that.
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Um, with accommodations, it was very good.
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Um, I had double time, I had note takers for all you know, my assignments and things like that, um, taking notes while in class with me.
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Um I would say it was it made life a lot easier um getting through college because of those accommodations.
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So when it came to assignments or exams, like I said, I had double time, but that also meant I had to get a jump start on my research papers.
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Sure.
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Um like the first week of class because I wanted to make sure I didn't fall behind.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, no, the accommodations, like I said, double time, note takers, it was very helpful.
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And for those of you watching that are maybe younger, we didn't have AI to write us an essay.
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No, we had a pencil, a number two, that we had to sharpen, maybe mechanical if you came from money.
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And then you'd have to write a 10-page paper and maybe overnight because you procrastinated.
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It's not like it is today, guys, just so you know.
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And I'm older than Austin, so I had a stone and a chisel.
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That's what I was yeah, she's over there.
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Oh, good.
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I mean, and you know, what's funny is some people have asked me, like, so who did your research papers?
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I'm like, I did on the computer.
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I've done 20-page papers, I've done 10-page papers, I've done them all.
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I was gonna say, how much did you pay to get your research papers done?
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Right.
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So what what prompted you to go into the field of psychology?
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Oh, that's a great question.
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Um me personally, it was because when I started going through therapy personally, um dealing with my struggles of not being able to drive, you know, and seeing all my friends and classmates taking drivers in and things like that, it really got to me and I felt super depressed.
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So once I got into therapy and uh my therapist started helping me with understanding the differences with my situation versus some other people's.
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I'm like, okay, over time, it took a couple years, but over time, I'm like, okay, I can see myself um really doing this and helping people, and specifically with psychology, what triggered me to want to go into that specifically, other than wanting to help people, was understanding how things in life affect people and their brains and why people do the things that they do.
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Like it's not simply just oh, somebody woke up one day and decided to be depressed.
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Like, no, that's not even how that works.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, so it was just wanting to understand how the brain impacts everyday life with people in their situations.
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Sure.
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Yeah, and that's I I've always thought psychology is so, so interesting.
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The the way people are working through things in their mind, like what's like I am that person, there's that meme or whatever.
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Like, I wonder what's going on in their mind.
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Like, I am that person, like what made you do that exact little thing?
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And it's so interesting to me, and how it's tied to so many things in our past and you know, so many different things.
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But what, if you don't mind, like when when did you actually start going to therapy?
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When um obviously when you're younger, when did you start doing that?
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I was about 15 years old.
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So in high school, like I said, around the time where everybody's starting to take driver's training and everybody's excited.
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Like, oh, I get to have my license, I get to drive, and I can't partake in that because I was soon later diagnosed with RP, and I was already told that physically I wouldn't be able to drive a car um at all, even though later on I was able to drive a go-kart.
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Um, but it was it was in a controlling environment.
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Listen, I think all of us should get together and go to do bumper cars.
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Yes.
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I firmly believe in this.
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Or go-kart racing, just all the blind people, all of us, and just you know, maybe wear three helmets instead of one.
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But it's gonna be so much fun.
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Like charity's gonna end up in the parking lot somehow.
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You know, Chris is gonna be somewhere in the like the pond.
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Oh, look, you're gonna be perfect, Austin.
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Oh no, I'll be upside down on top of the roof for sure.
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Oh, okay.
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Mario Kart.
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Yes, there we go.
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So, okay.
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You you went when you were 15, and what I just want to know, were were you were you told to do that, or is it something that you were okay with?
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You said, like, I actually need this and I want to do this.
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I think therapy can be misunderstood by someone who's younger and can think that it's something to be judged for, even more so because of the not driving thing.
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That was my question.
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Like, how did you feel about going?
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I got you.
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I know you got me.
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You always got me.
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It was a mixture of both where I was encouraged to go, but also um, I really wanted to go because I wanted to be able to get insight from somebody who may be able to assist me further, even though I'm saying it more articulate now, but at the time my thing was I wanted somebody who's trained and has some knowledge and experience in helping people overcome their mental health struggles and challenges.
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Yeah.
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And that's what it was for me because I felt like I didn't have any answers at the time.
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That's a very mature perspective for someone at that point in time of their life.
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I know when I approached um therapy myself, there was a little bit of s of shame associated with it for me that it felt like I couldn't handle something myself and I was gonna have to reach out to somebody else to fix myself.
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I mean, I know that's not the case, and I know you shouldn't approach therapy that way, but for someone who was your age at the time to have the the mental capacity to say, I need this, and there's nothing wrong with it, that's that's wonderful.
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Yeah, looking back on it, I I can see now that that I wasn't maybe like the typical or average person in that regard.
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Um, and maybe part of it was because I had heard from maybe some friends, family members, whatever, that you know, that's what therapy is meant for.
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But maybe I didn't really know and understand like all the nitty-gritty, but I know that's what um therapy is there for.
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And of course, over time I got to learn about different therapy approaches, different types of therapists, and all those things.
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But my goal initially was hey, I'm struggling with the fact that I'm 15 at the time and I want to be able to drive, but it seems like I won't be able to, and I feel like my life is hopeless, and I need someone to help me not feel hopeless anymore.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And was it around this time that you was it this initial process with therapy?
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Because I mean a lot of therapy is ongoing.
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Once you start doing it, it's just it's it's part of what you do.
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And but is it was it earlier on that you said, you know what, this would be a cool career?
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Because I mean, around 15 is when they start kind of probing you for what do you want to do with your life and what kind of career path you want to take?
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Um, it wasn't early on.
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It it took it took a couple years for me because originally um I was actually going to school to be a mortician, funny enough.
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Okay.
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Very sorry, Chris.
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We're supposed to entertain people here.
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Not not, you know, goodness gracious.
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We'll we'll edit it out, don't worry.
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Just kidding, man.
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Um, I know that's so random.
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We're like, wait, what?
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Work with dead, work with the dead, yes.
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Um a few friends that actually have gone into that or wanted to, so yeah.
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Apparently you're not alone.
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Not you and just the body.
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Yeah, right.
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But you know, after a few personal tragedies, I decided, like, no, I think I want to go more to mental health.
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And that's what um led me to it.
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But it it took a few years.
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It wasn't like right away because my focus was on just trying to get help for myself in my mental health.
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Okay.
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So when when did you actually not just graduate, but when did you say take your first client or patient or whatever, what are we calling it?
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Patient?
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Patient.
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Patient or client, either one.
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Um, when did I take my first client?
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I will say, that was oh yeah, that was in 2016, 2016.
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14 years ago.
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Sure.
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Did you ever feel doing that like a form of imposter syndrome?
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Oh, I definitely had imposter syndrome.
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Um, thinking like, do I remember everything?
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How how could I actually know all the things?
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You know, I don't see that well, where are some things that I may miss out on?
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All of that.
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I was questioning myself, all of that.
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Um, but but then I had to remind myself that not everything is visual when it comes to therapy.
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You know, some things you can detect a person's affect and um thoughts and feelings just based on what they're saying and how they're saying it.
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Yeah.
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And the little bit of body language you can detect, you go off of that as well.
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That's that's just that's I have to imagine.
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So I felt imposter syndrome so many times in so many different aspects of my life because I, you know, I am not a licensed psychologist.
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Okay, I got my degree on YouTube guy.
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But still, I I have always really loved helping people through my life.
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Go let them talk it out and just um doing that, and it hit a point where I actually have started helping people in certain ways, and they'll tell me, like, dude, you've helped me so much.
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Like, thank you so much.
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And I'm looking at myself running into things, bleeding, and then having my own really, really hard days of something going on.
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Like, who am I to be telling someone what they should and should not do?
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But it's it's not like therapists and psychologists don't have I you have to have your own bad days as well.
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Doesn't make you any less qualified to be giving people advice and whatnot.
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So I just imagine there's a lot of that that happens.
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Yeah, no, absolutely.
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Um, that's why a lot of therapists have therapists.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that's and then they're that it's just as long.
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It feels like a multi-level marketing thing, you know.
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Then their therapists have therapists, they just keep recruiting therapists under them.
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You know, right.
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Do you let your clients know in advance that you have vision loss, or do you talk to them when they come in for their first visit, or or do you just avoid it unless they ask?
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:48.480
Usually if it comes up naturally from their end or maybe mine, that's when I will bring it up.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:53.519
Um, I don't normally bring it up like right up front or ahead of time.
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It's one of those things where if something kind of sparks it or kind of makes it stand out type of thing, then I will address it right then and there.
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I'm not gonna act like it doesn't exist.
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Um but yeah, no, I I I let it be known.
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And a lot of times uh my my clients will kind of know up front because they might see my eyes within astagmus moving and like hey, you're so then I just address it right then and there.
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:29.119
So yeah, I'm I'm visually impaired, I have you know, this condition and then for the most part, nobody really cares.
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Yeah.
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If they do, they don't ever express it, but right I've never lost the quiet.
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You see, wait, your eyes jiggle like that.
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.359
No, I don't want to stay in here with you.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.000
So I imagine your work speaks for itself then.
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:48.160
You know, I mean if if if someone was concerned by the time they're done, if they got nothing to say about it, then it's well, he's really helped me.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:49.440
This guy's kind of awesome.
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:50.000
You know.
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:58.960
Do you feel like going through what you've gone through and dealing with it up until this point has made you a better therapist?
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:04.960
I definitely think so, because I have a I think a very unique perspective.
00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:39.440
You know, on one hand, because I do have some um usable vision, but I can understand you know different things that maybe a fully sighted person may be experiencing in different ways, but because I have, you know, you still usable vision, but I'm considered visually impaired, um I also understand what it's like on the other side of dealing with limitations, dealing with struggles and how that impacts people uh mentally and emotionally and physically.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:46.880
So I just feel like I have a very unique perspective because in a way I feel like I'm kind of living in two worlds at the same time.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:47.119
Yeah.
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:58.000
I do have some vision, but um yeah, so I definitely think everything that I've gone through has prepared me to be a very well-rounded uh clinician.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.119
Yeah, I would think so.
00:19:59.279 --> 00:19:59.839
That's really cool.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.599
And so to build on that, I'm gonna ask you a crazy question here.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:18.400
Do you, you know, you as knowing all the different tools and strategies and ways to help people and whatnot, are there these times where you know the exact coping tool that you should use, but you struggle to use it yourself in those times that you're going through something?
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:38.079
I would say it kind of started off that way, maybe some years ago, but over time I kind of lean more into it as far as like, okay, I know what research says and I understand uh how to apply it and could also help me in different things like that.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:45.519
And also understand some things you can apply, but it may not work as effectively unless maybe you tweak it a little bit.
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:55.200
So and that's because you have to go off of the person's situation because you know there's not a one size fits all solution.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:05.359
That's why when I meet with people, I always say, you know, I work with you based on where you are and approach it in that way.
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:14.960
You know, I tailor my therapeutic style to make sure that I'm addressing the person with where they are, what they're dealing with, and all those things.
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:26.480
But for myself, um yeah, I kind of lean more towards like okay, what are effective cope and strategies that I've learned for myself personally, but also what I've learned um throughout research.
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:27.119
Yeah.
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:27.680
Okay.
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:28.799
That makes sense.
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:35.359
That's it's I've found myself that I am very prone to give advice and not take it myself, and I think a lot of us are.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.640
And but we know it, like we can hear it in our voices.
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:45.200
Like, I just told Brian this, yet I'm struggling to take it myself, and it it helped them and whatnot.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.000
And then I'm sitting there struggling, and I can hear that voice in your head.
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:49.920
Like, you know you're supposed to do it, man.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:51.680
You know what you're doing is not okay.
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:53.279
Like, yeah, just shut up, man.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:56.160
I'm not I'm not talking to you, other voice in my head.
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.000
I'm talking to the other guy.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.839
Maybe I do need to come see you, Chris.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.920
Maybe we could part these voices.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.200
We could talk about it.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.000
Okay.
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:21.440
So do you yourself, you know, as someone with RP and then dealing with cystagness, do you still have days that you struggle with the the weight of all of that just in in general in your life?
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:22.559
Yes.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:24.079
No, absolutely.
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:24.480
Okay.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:34.319
You know, dealing with the fact that I have to rely so heavily on my memory to remember what things are, remember how to do certain things.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.240
Um, daily tasks become very um overwhelming sometimes.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:40.880
Sure.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:49.279
And, you know, something it's funny because my wife will say to me sometimes, like, Wait, how do you remember all of those things?
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.039
And I'm not even talking about just doing daily living activities.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:57.279
I'm talking about just remembering different facts about different things and all of that.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:05.200
And it's like, well, you know, in my situation, I'm kind of prepared for that type of capacity, I think.
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:12.000
Um, where I can remember a lot of things outside of daily living, but also remember the things with daily living.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:20.640
And yeah, um, I still forget, you know, I'm not perfect, but I try my best to stay on top of it and do better um every time.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:31.279
But yeah, no, I definitely have down days where I'm just like, oh, this would be a lot easier if I didn't have to experience this or if I could drive, and all of these things.
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:33.920
So yeah, no, I I definitely have my down days.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:34.720
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:45.839
And you know, the memory thing, I talked to several people in our community, and a lot of people have said the same thing that when my vision started kicking in, it was wild that my recall shot up dramatically.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:47.839
And I started to think about why.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:58.079
I mean, there's that overcompensation thing to where you're always trying to, you know, if you're starting to lose your vision and lose something there, that you try to show up a little bit better somewhere else.
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.240
But also, when we walk into rooms, we have to memorize the layouts like that.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:06.079
Yes, and where exactly did we put the remote and where is this?
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:09.680
And I'll have people that, you know, maybe I walk downstairs to grab something.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.480
Uh some will say, Hey, where did you put the remote at?
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:16.799
It's on the left side of the coffee table towards the back behind the light, turned upside down.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:18.079
Like, whoa.
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:19.200
Right.
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:19.759
Okay.
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:20.640
Yeah.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:22.079
Just extreme detail.
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:25.599
And I'm charity, I'm sure that you can agree with that too, that you've been through those.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.359
It's a strategy and it takes place instantaneously.
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:36.000
When I set my glass down on um a table, I'm like, it immediately registers in my head.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:38.960
I set it, I set my drink over there.
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:45.279
And I do that with every everything in my life, and everything has to be organized and in its place for me.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:50.960
It's it's just a way for me to manage to go through life in a reasonable fashion.
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:57.920
Which is why it's so annoying for people out there who maybe live with someone with vision problems, or you can already hear the sigh.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:58.400
You already know.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:24:59.680
Bring my husband on.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:00.000
Yeah.
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.559
Do not move our things.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:09.200
I know where it is placed might seem odd.
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:11.759
You might think, hey, it's gonna get knocked over there.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:16.000
But trust me, I knew when I kicked off my left shoe that it landed behind the table.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.640
And the right one, I know it's over by the fireplace.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.160
I know where they're at.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.680
But if you are going to move things, just tell us.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.759
Tell us, hey, I'm moving this here.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:27.519
And don't put things in our space.
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:31.119
My husband's a good one to set down a water bottle with the cap off.
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.119
Like put the cap on at least.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:34.559
Put the cap off.
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:40.640
And Chris, when you were talking about your wife and how she's amazed by your memory, I can tell you what she's really thinking.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:42.559
She's really thinking, how can you memorize?
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:47.039
Yeah, how can you understand and remember all of that, but forget to take the trash out?
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:48.880
That's what she was thinking.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:56.079
I mean, it's happened, but I said allegedly.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.119
We remember what we want to remember.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:00.480
Right.
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:27.039
Oh, it's it's so funny that um we're saying this in regards to memory because I read online not too long ago, I believe it was either through the National Federation for the Blind or the American Council for the Blind, but it said something along the lines of 85% of the information that we receive every day is accounted through our vision.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:43.039
And so the average fully sighted person doesn't truly understand that uh when we rely on our other senses, even if we have usable vision, it's we use other senses to gather the same information.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:58.720
But because the average person uses, like I said, heavily on their site, and that's how they get 85% of the information, they take for granted and I'll truly understand that you can navigate in different ways without just your vision.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:09.599
A lot of people um go immediately to we have a higher, a heightened sense of hearing, but I will tell you that even um touch.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:16.160
I and at our previous house, I walked through our house every day and I'm like, our floors aren't even.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.279
And people would come into our house, I'm like, no, they're even, they're even.
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:20.880
My husband's like, I think you're crazy.
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:22.640
Like the floors aren't even.
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:43.200
And there was actually an issue under our house with our floors, they weren't braced properly, but our sense of touch and that and feeling and hearing, it all becomes heightened, or maybe not heightened, but we just become more in tune to compensate for the fact that we're not seeing so much of the world.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:50.799
Yeah, the way I've described it to people, Cherry, you probably heard me say it before, but too, when people bring that up, it's always like, dude, are you like Daredevil?
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.799
Like, oh yeah.
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.880
No, man, I I do not put on a suit and go fight crime.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:06.319
And uh, I probably shouldn't because let's be honest, walking around a city, not being able to put them on an Uber to the next crime, you know, like it's like no, man.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:14.480
But I tell people this, I I tell them, you know, what it basically is, because yes, my hearing has kind of seemed to be a little bit more heightened.
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.480
And I agree with you, Cherry, with the touch thing and whatnot.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:27.920
So what I tell people is like, imagine if you're sitting in a room, you're sitting in a house, and you're looking out uh over out of the windows towards the street, and there's five windows representing one sense that we that we have, five senses.
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:32.400
And with our vision going out or our vision gone, you close the blinds on one of those windows.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.119
So naturally you're paying attention to four windows instead of five.
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.519
You have more focus on the other four windows.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:38.799
That's a great analogy.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:41.119
It's been an easy way to explain it to people.
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:41.519
Yeah.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:42.079
Mm-hmm.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:43.599
Yeah, that's a great one.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:29:04.319
So, Chris, what going into kind of what you study and what your professionalism is and what you dealt with yourself, and it's not just vision loss, but I think a lot of the things that we deal with and people uh can understand even outside of the the vision loss world is friends and family often misunderstanding what we're going through.
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:15.839
For you, what do you think if there if you could generalize like what friends and family most often misunderstand about someone going through something, whether it be vision loss or something even more broad, what would you say that that might be?
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:17.680
I'll start with vision loss.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:31.279
Um vision loss, I will say with friends and family, I I think now for me personally, there's a a little bit better understanding, especially specifically like for my situation.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:40.960
But outside of that, I would say in general, it's people still have this misconception that um vision is either you have it or you don't.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:41.440
Yeah.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.839
Instead of viewing it as a spectrum, they look at it as either or.
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:50.160
And I really think that's still unfortunate to this day.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.000
But it's wild, you know.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:53.119
I thought it was too.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.240
I thought it was black and white.
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:55.279
I was wrong.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:01.920
And I don't think there's enough that I feel like that should be something that's taught as a child in like health class.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.319
That is just something so easy to teach people.
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:04.640
Yeah.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:13.359
I know, but if you think about it when when you work with, I mean, look, think about when you were a kid and you're like, you're pretending to be blind and it you're completely blind.
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.359
They blindfold you, you're completely blind.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.880
It's not like they give you a partial blindfold and they let you walk around.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:22.079
Yeah, you're just it's either you're blind or you're not.
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:24.000
And I would have thought the same thing.
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:29.039
Like I figured one day the lights would just go out and that'd be it.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:29.759
Yep.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:41.359
Um but other than vision loss, I would say the other thing outside of that that friends and family may not truly understand in general is mental health.
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:42.000
Yeah.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.920
That is not about, oh well, depression is just sadness.
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:51.440
Like, no, depression impacts um mentally, emotionally, physically.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:01.359
You know, there are people who, depending on their level of severity with depression, can't actually get out of bed to go and bathe and clean themselves.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.079
It's not that they're being lazy, it's the depression is debilitating.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:16.640
So um understanding that mental health is not simply a choice that you just decide one day, like, yep, I'm gonna be depressed, or yep, I have bipolar.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.079
It doesn't work that way.
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:18.640
Yeah.
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:24.240
And I think it's probably really easy with mental health for that too, is because mental health is not something physical.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:28.000
Mental health is not something you can simulate or try it on to see.
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:33.119
You can't put a pair of goggles on to simulate bipolar or split personalities and all that stuff.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.759
You you can't try it out and see, oh, that's what you're going through.
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.160
You have to, you know, people just assume, and a lot of people with mental health.
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:57.119
I've noticed in my life that it seems like people that say they want to help you out what you're going through and whatnot, they seem to have a very low threshold for actually listening to what it is because they refuse to understand or it's so outside of what they're used to.
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:03.119
It's one of those things, it's not gray, it's either black, it's black and white when you're dealing with mental health issues.
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:04.160
Exactly.
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:14.480
Just like it's funny you say that because I'm thinking about how people have this misconception about schizophrenia and what it really is versus what it looks like.
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.720
I mean, people confuse hallucinations, for example.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.880
They don't realize that hallucinations affect all your senses.
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:31.440
It's not just auditory, it's not just um visual, it's taste, it's touch, it's it's all of that.
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:31.839
Yeah.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:39.119
You know, the most common ones are visual and hearing, but technically hallucinations affect every aspect of your senses.
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.200
And that might be part of too, right?
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.039
They'll because they'll display schizophrenia.
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:48.640
That's a that's a hot topic, one for movies and TV when they display that, and you can't feel it.
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:53.519
You you can't uh and experience the other senses that it affects through a screen.
00:32:53.839 --> 00:33:01.279
So I think TV and movies might be part of the problem when it comes to mental health and understanding it truly, that the depth that it can really go.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:16.480
I will say, real quick, yeah, if anybody wanted to watch um a series, it's it's kind of older now, but a series that depicts like therapy and working with people like from a therapist perspective.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:25.359
The closest to being accurate depiction of that, it was a series on HBO called in treatment.
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.000
Okay.
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:33.519
So if ever you guys want to check it out, I think it might still be on Amazon Prime or whatever.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:33.920
Yeah.
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:38.319
Um, yeah, it's called In Treatment, and I highly recommend it.
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:44.799
I actually have like all three seasons on DVD because it was it was so it was so good.
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:52.640
Like, I mean, it's still TV, but to me, that's probably the closest to being accurate depiction of what therapy looks like.
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:56.240
Okay, so that just to be clear, that's not where you got your education from, right?
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:57.119
Right.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.359
No, okay, no, I didn't get it from there.
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:01.920
Oh, yeah.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:03.680
You were writing reports, were you?
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:07.920
No, you you were you had a bowl of popcorn, you were watching a show, so I'm gonna do that.
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:10.800
No.
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:12.880
It's terrible.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:47.519
So okay, what um, so with that, like how if you know, if you have friends and family, how what is the best way do you think if someone is going through something for people out there that are around someone that is going through something, and it might be this might be a two-answered thing again, it might be the blindness and then of something bigger, but what do you think is the best way, not to support, because that's such a large window of things that it could be, but what's the best way to approach the way you're going to support someone and truly try to help them with something your friend or your family member is going through?
00:34:47.920 --> 00:35:04.800
To me, the initial approach would be to you know let the person know that it's okay to feel what he or she is experiencing, and then let them know, like, hey, I am uh I will be there to listen to you, be there to say with you, whatever you know you need me to do.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:15.039
Um so basically assuring the person that you can be support of any kind, and to you know, let them know like it's okay to feel what you're feeling.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:32.559
Because I I think when it comes to mental health or anything in life, period, I think the biggest barrier for a lot of people to reach out for help in any kind is this judgment, the assumptions.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:33.039
Yeah.
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:55.519
So if you can alleviate that off the just off the top, then I I think that's where you're gonna start getting more reassurance from the other person, like, hey, I can definitely talk with so-and-so, hey, I can definitely talk with Cherry, I could talk with Austin, and they seem to be very cool about you know, whatever.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:19.679
Now, that doesn't mean that you guys are automatically gonna be their therapists or sure, you know, support every aspect of everything in life, but it lets them know, like, hey, I do have somebody in my life that cares and is willing to listen, is willing to um maybe even give um advice or even some resources of some kind.
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:20.320
Yeah.
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:22.880
I I'm really glad you said that.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:32.559
I am going through a situation with a friend of mine right now, and my my only thing that I can do for her is to validate her feelings.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.920
I can't give her advice because I have no advice to give.
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:54.639
But I think it's important that as long as you're not supporting something that is negative that they're doing, if it's you're just supporting and validating their feelings, I think that is one of the most important things that you can do for a person to start with is to validate the place that they're in.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.280
And like I said, I can't give her any advice.
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.800
I I don't have any for her, but I can be there with her.
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:08.320
And she has said, you know, like, I'm I'm thankful that you're here, that I can trust you, and I know you're here for me.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:14.400
And I think that for myself, that would be one of the most important things is to know that I'm not alone.
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.679
Wherever I'm at in my journey, I'm not alone.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.000
That someone's there walking with me.
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:21.199
Yeah, I agree.
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:39.679
And I would build on top of that too, saying as someone who's going to try and help someone support someone, whether even if it's just a basic conversation or if it's gonna be something more in depth than that, that it's important as that person to make sure whether you do it verbally or just with yourself, to draw out your boundaries and what you are actually willing to bring to the table.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:46.559
Because don't make the person that is that needs help think that you're gonna be there for them, that you are that rock.
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:55.440
Because it's very easy to start getting into that idea to where the people, you know, they believe that you'll be there for them for all of it, because the way that you're talking.
00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:09.840
But if you don't set those boundaries with yourself and with them, you'll end up letting them down even further because you end up getting to a point where you're not actually, you aren't prepared to do another call, another day, and then you have to show up and like, God, are we doing this again?
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:18.719
Like just just let them know, like, listen, I'm you know, just set the boundaries for yourself, for them, so you don't end up in this awkward, disappointing situation.
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:19.280
Yeah.
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:19.679
Right.
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:35.199
Do you ever um I know dealing with vision loss, we don't have we have bad days all the time, and we get through one bad day, and then something else happens, our vision changes, or our life circumstance changes, and we're dealing with something else.
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.920
And I know, Chris, you must have you deal with that as well.
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:47.199
But then on top of that, you are dealing with clients who come to you and bring you their issues.
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:58.960
And do you ever feel just I think we called it support fatigue the other day, um, where it just feels like it's piling up on you.
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:02.000
Do you take on their problems as your own?
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.159
Do you feel them emotionally and pile that on top of what you're already feeling?
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:25.920
Or can you separate that it has happened to me at times as a therapist, you know, where you have certain clients and you know their situations and you just envision, like, oh my goodness, they they're actually going through what they're describing and all these things.
00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:42.480
I would say I try my best to do my part with separating all those things for myself because you know, complicated compassion fatigue um or compassion burnout is a real thing.
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:50.000
Yeah, as therapists is something that we as therapists often deal with, that we you know sometimes struggle with.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:40:10.239
And like I said, I still deal with it at times, but I've been learning over the years since I've been uh practicing to take time to kind of like debrief myself to excel and to learn to separate uh my client's situation from my own personal situations.
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:18.559
There are some heavy hitters where you're like, oh my goodness, like I can't believe what I'm hearing right now.
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:24.400
Um because essentially it's um vicarious trauma, you know, that we experience.
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:28.480
So yeah, like I I definitely experience that time from time.
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:39.599
Um but I I just practice with like exhaling, I do some breathing, and then I try to um kind of do some exercises with like separating the situations.
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:40.320
Yeah.
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:55.519
Yeah, that's a really important thing to do, is that separation of it's really easy to start just balling up everything together, then you start unproportionately responding to things that did not deserve that kind of stress or that response or whatever it may be.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:57.519
Such a really good thing to say.
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:12.000
How would you say, since we're on this topic, how would you say to respond, whether it maybe it's you yourself, how you would actually do it, but maybe what you would advise someone to do, because sometimes getting advice can be very unwarranted and unwelcomed.
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:28.559
And people find a reason to give you advice anyways, and it can be easy sometimes to kind of pop off on those people, just you know, mind your business, but how would you what would what kind of advice would you give on how to deal with unwanted advice from someone?
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.400
In general, yeah, just I mean, in general, it could be with vision loss too.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:46.559
I know there's a lot of us out there that in whether you have um vision loss or not, to where people will try to help you and you weren't actually asking for help, and it can be a hard time sometimes explaining yourself the correct way to you know what I mean?
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:49.920
Like it can come off very rude, but it's not meant to be.
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:55.199
Like if Austin's giving me advice and it's and and I don't want it.
00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:05.599
I or I just maybe a lot of times you just need to talk, you just need to tell someone something, and you don't want them because it's easy for them to say, Oh, well, you should do this or you should do that.
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.159
Well, okay, that's easy for you to say.
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.280
And I would find myself snapping at him.
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.639
It is are there ways to deal with that that may be better?
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.480
I was articulated much better.
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:26.960
Um, so for me, the approach that I try my very best to take is like, hey, I hear what you're saying and I appreciate you trying to help.
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:32.400
However, right now I I could use something else in this situation.
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:36.480
Or like, hey, I acknowledge what you're saying, thank you.
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:42.000
However, it might be better to whatever the situation entails.
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:50.960
Because to me when a person is trying to help, it's like, okay, they're they're really, they're sincerely trying to help, right?
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.840
So we don't want to completely dismiss them.
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.239
So that's why I'm like, okay, acknowledge.
00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:59.760
That's usually my approach, like acknowledge, but then explain.
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:13.199
Like, hey, you know, I I appreciate what you said, but at the same time, like I could do or I could use something different, or I could use more help and you know, that type of thing.
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:16.079
Like, hey, that that's that's my approach.
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:20.639
That's that's my um take on how to deal with unwanted advice.
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:25.679
Well, that's an awesome it's a it's an awesome approach, and it's great advice for me.
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:34.159
I'm gonna take that because I take a lot of things to heart, and I'm the type of person who would just pop off on you.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:37.360
But now I'm gonna say I appreciate that, Austin.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.039
But right now I just need you to listen to my pain.
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:43.840
Right.
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:59.760
Or even or sometimes if you're like trying to vent to a friend and they're just like, okay, well, here's a solution, and here it's like sometimes I even have to learn this for myself that sometimes.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.599
Times it's like, hey, before we start, I just want to let you know I I just need time to vent right now.
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:13.679
So that way that person that you're speaking with can know, like, okay, how I this is how I need to approach the conversation.
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.679
Yeah, that's great advice too.
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:16.239
Yeah.
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:16.559
Yeah.
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:18.000
Great advice.
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:18.719
Okay.
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:33.280
Since since we've all been through here, but specifically since what you do for a living, what do you think what what um what tool or strategy thinks do you think helps with dealing with a future that's uncertain?
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:44.639
That you know, I mean, and and this isn't just vision loss, this is in general, with something that it's just you have no idea what's coming, and obviously we experience that directly.
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:46.159
Great question, actually.
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:55.760
The approach that I use is focusing more on the possibilities of what you can do.
00:44:56.559 --> 00:45:08.719
Even though, yes, it's scary, but I take the um other approach of look at the things that in life that you can't control, but also compare it against what you can control.
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:09.280
Yeah.
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:25.119
So if you look at the things you can control, that you can um have a say in or have an opinion or have whatever it may be, those are the things that you really want to focus more of your energy on.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:29.599
Not to say that you can't think about the things you can't control, because it is.
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:34.320
But I I think you have to allow yourself time to acknowledge that first.
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:39.360
Acknowledge the things you can't control, the things you can't do, and it's okay.
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:41.519
It is okay because you're human.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:43.199
There's nothing wrong with that.
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:54.239
But the approach overall that I use is okay, I acknowledge what I can't do or what's uncertain, and then I've directed more towards okay, what can I do?
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:56.079
How can I navigate this?
00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:58.480
What is certain for me right now?
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:00.480
What do I have control over?
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:01.599
What can I say?
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.559
It feels like our only certainty lies in today.
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.039
So for myself, that's what I do.
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:14.320
I maybe it's you can tell me it's unhealthy and I'll go seek out a new therapist or whatever, or or a therapist, period.
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:19.840
But I try to, in order to keep myself sane, I have to focus on today.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.519
I can't think about tomorrow.
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:26.400
I think about a little bit about tomorrow, but not we don't know what's gonna happen.
00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:28.239
We don't know what's coming down the road.
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:31.039
So I know what's in my here and now today.
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:32.079
That's what's real.
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:41.119
And so that's what I try to focus on every day, or else I'll get caught up in the whatever is gonna happen, and I don't know what that is.
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:44.320
So yeah, I used to struggle a lot with control.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:47:04.159
I had this unreasonable fantasy that I was in so much control of my life, and in some instances I was, but it was driving me up a wall because then everything that was going wrong in life, I found a way to either be completely irrational about how it happened or just blame myself for it.
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:05.760
Because why did you let that happen?
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:07.840
You could have done this instead, you could have done this instead.
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.119
Well, there's always that answer, and it drove me crazy.
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:20.960
And I found instead of, you know, I mean, that's like you only have today, really, but when I started breaking everything down in my life into little tasks, I can do this little thing.
00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:24.480
Well, I can control the little tasks that can lead up to something larger.
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:28.800
But just that, but it's it's those little things, and those little things happen today.
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:32.000
They happen next hour, they happen tomorrow.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.519
But you know, next month, I have 30 days to get to that.
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:37.840
I mean, I might who knows what's gonna happen to me in 30 days.
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.119
I might walk off a bridge, you know.
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.840
Not because I wanted to, it's because I thought I was going into Taco Bell.
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.679
But you know, things happen.
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:48.480
Taco Bell.
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:50.719
Listen, I love me some T Bell.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:59.840
I just I am sponsored on unofficially, and if Taco Bell's listening, I want the sponsorship.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.360
Um, so in in line with that, what's uh what's a small habit for you?
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:08.960
Do you do you think that you've used some habitual thing?
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:16.559
Um, you know, some people's meditation, there's all these little things, but that has made life easier of dealing with these uncertain times.
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:18.559
Oh, that's another great question.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:24.800
So for me, um habitually I do a I do a few things.
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:39.440
So the first thing I do is I pause and then I just do a breathing exercise, um, so I can control modeling my breathing, but I try to reduce anxiety as much as possible.
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:46.960
Of like, okay, it's uncertain, but like here's the thing I need to just stay calm as much as we can.
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:54.400
And then the second thing that I do is I I acknowledge what's happening.
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:59.039
Like I try to live in the here and now, as Jarody had previously stated.
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:03.679
I try to live in reality of okay, this is the situation.
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:11.199
So what's what's what can we do about it and how do we progress moving forward?
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:19.760
So those are the two things that potentially that I do, like I said, breathing and then just try to think about everything in the here and now.
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:22.960
What's the pressing situation ahead or right now?
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:25.840
What's really pressing right now?
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:26.400
Yep.
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:33.519
Okay, and then try to prioritize a list of okay, this is what I need to do now versus okay, this can wait.
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:34.079
Yep.
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:36.000
So I'm not getting overwhelmed.
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:36.800
Absolutely.
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:51.199
That's uh that became a really big deal for me is uh I actually literally listing things, is especially because I would, you know, when I'd write out my journal or my calendar or what have you day by day, and I'd end up filling this whole massive block with so many things.
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:52.639
And it was unrealistic.
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:54.880
I was never going to get through all those that day.
00:49:55.039 --> 00:50:03.440
And it would end up weighing on me and driving me crazy and then putting me into almost just a like a state of doing nothing at all because I was overwhelmed by everything.
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:08.000
So instead, I cut that list down by 75, 80 percent.
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:19.119
Here's what I can do right now that will change my situation right now, that will move my needle right now, that'll allow me to deal with what's in front of me right now instead of all the other things.
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:20.960
Prioritize, prioritize, prioritize.
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:21.920
I completely agree with that.
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:24.000
And I completely agree with the breathing.
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:37.679
I'm not one, I'm not a strong proponent of breathing exercises, or I wasn't until I went to get my last dog and I had a stressful situation and I got off a bus and I was about ready to break down.
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:44.559
And my trainer is just like, take a deep breath three times, let it out and see where we're at.
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:54.000
And I was surprised when I was done doing that, like your anxiety is reduced, and you can like think clearly about what's actually happening in that moment.
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.000
And like nothing was, I was breathing.
00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:57.760
So it calms you down.
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:03.920
Yeah, that's uh that's I it took me a while to actually accept doing that.
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:06.800
And I think it's because I thought it was such a cliche.
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:08.960
Like, tell me to breathe one more time.
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:09.440
Right.
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.320
Yeah, because that's just gonna make my problems go, dude.
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:13.039
Just try it.
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:13.760
Okay.
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:14.480
It does.
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:18.719
One, two, then by four, you're like, oh no, they're right.
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:20.000
Oh yeah, they're right.
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:33.199
But that, yeah, that's um, and I also uh began using when I was really in a state of mania, just absolute manic life at all times, was uh their what are they called?
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:34.800
Are they mantra beads?
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:37.519
But they there's 180 of them around like a necklace.
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:38.719
I wear them around my wrist a lot.
00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:41.840
And when I would get into that, I would take it off and you count, and it's 180.
00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:45.440
You go one, two, three, and you count in your mind.
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:55.119
And that like it it gives you 180 seconds roughly to just chill out and focus on one simple task and then to resume life.
00:51:55.280 --> 00:52:08.079
And it really did help quite a bit in a lot of different times, and now I wear them almost religiously because of one, just what they mean to me in those random times that it happens, and I'll sit there and then I'm anxiety-filled, and I'll just sit there and count them, and it helps.
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:09.119
That's great.
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:10.480
Yeah, they're very cool.
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:11.360
Yeah, okay.
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:19.440
So we're we're about out of time, and I like to do a closing with everyone and you know, ask them some philosophical question or them to talk to the audience.
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:26.559
But I want to ask you specifically, Chris, I have this written down is what would you tell someone who is struggling with a change they cannot control?
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:31.440
Something that is inevitable for us, that is, you know, our progressive vision loss.
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:33.599
We know it can get worse and worse.
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:39.840
We know that we might not be able to drive, or I mean, we obviously already know that, but some people are getting to the idea that that will happen to them.
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:49.840
But what would you tell someone who is struggling with the uncertainty, but knowing that there is change coming that they have absolutely zero control over?
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:54.480
I would say first and foremost, it's okay to not be okay.
00:52:54.800 --> 00:53:00.639
Um, you are human and also preparation is key.
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:21.840
So once you start to feel at ease and can navigate things step by step, day by day, moment by moment, then during that time prepare for when it's when it's time because better to be prepared and it happens than then in that.
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:22.639
Awesome.
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:23.119
Awesome.
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:28.079
Okay, before we go, I remember that you had told me that you and your wife were doing a podcast as well.
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:30.719
Um, and you're still doing that.
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.880
So I I know it's not as frequent, right?
00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:34.639
But you are still doing that with her?
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:36.960
Right now we're kind of on hiatus.
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:37.280
Okay.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.480
We do have um some episodes already um on YouTube, on Spotify, things like that.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:44.960
Awesome.
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:46.159
And what's it called?
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:49.280
It's called Um A Couple of Kemers.
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:55.360
And that's K-E-E-M-E-R-S for everyone that is listening that wants to check out more from Chris.
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.480
And if I remember correctly, it is not just about vision loss, right?
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.840
There's it, it's about a lot of different things with you and your wife.
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:02.400
Yes.
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:03.280
Yeah, perfect.
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:03.679
I love it.
00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:04.000
Awesome.
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.159
So if anyone wants to check that out, go ahead.
00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:09.519
We will make sure that we drop the link into the description as well.
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.400
Um, as always, guys, thank you for stopping by.
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:20.320
Once again, this is Chris Kemer, who is a licensed psychologist, but also deals with vision loss, right now it's pigmentosa and nystagmus.
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:21.840
So it's been a great time, Chris.
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:22.960
We appreciate you.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:26.320
For anyone listening, again, please like, share, follow.
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:28.960
It helps us meet some of these awesome guests.
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:33.920
It helps us talk to people who have a message that can greatly help other people around the world.
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:37.119
So if you like, if you share, if you follow, leave a comment.
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.599
It helps us spread that and get in front of people.
00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:42.239
Also, if you have any questions, please put it out there.
00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:42.960
Ask us.
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:46.960
And if it's something that pertains to Chris, we'll try to tag him and see if he's got an answer for you.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:47.840
We'd love to see it.
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:49.039
We'd love to hear from you.
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:51.679
It's something we enjoy greatly when we get online.
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:55.840
So that is Facebook, Instagram, TikTok at Central Vision Podcast.
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:58.239
We are also Central Vision Podcast.com.
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:00.800
For all those that are listening, we are also on YouTube.
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:02.559
Thank you guys so much for stopping by.
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:04.000
We'll see you next Tuesday.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.560
I'm struggling with the fact that I'm 15, want to be able to drive, but I feel like my life is hopeless and I need someone to help me not feel hopeless in it.
00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:18.320
Hey everyone, I'm Charity.
00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:19.519
And I'm Austin.
00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:22.399
Welcome to the Central Vision Podcast.
00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:33.840
We're two hosts living with vision loss, sharing honest conversations about life through the lens of blindness and low vision.
00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:40.799
From relationships and travel to careers and technology, from family and confidence to accessibility and everything in between.
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:47.840
We'll share our experiences, ask the questions people are already thinking, laugh through the awkward moments, and explore what it really means to live with vision loss.
00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:57.679
So whether you're living with vision loss yourself, love support, or know someone who is, or you're simply curious, looking for a different perspective, you're in the right place.
00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.280
So, Chris, let's get right into it.
00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:27.840
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:32.239
So I was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, on the west side.
00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:39.120
Um, and I was diagnosed with being visually impaired when I was 10 years old.
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Um, specifically, I had nystagmus and my acuity at the time, I believe my doctor said I was had maybe like 20 over 80 or something like that.
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Um, but it wasn't until I was 16 years old when I was undiagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, um, which we then later on found out is X-linked.
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And so navigating life was definitely a challenge, especially going to Catholic schools and then switching to public schools when I got to high school.
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So it was a big it was big transitions all the way around.
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Uniform, no uniform, absolutely, man.
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That's just gonna feel so fitting.
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No more rulers and bounce coming out, and yeah, exactly.
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So for anyone listening to, and correct me if I'm wrong, it so Nystagnis is the rapid eye movement going like left and right, or is it is it up and down too, or is it left and right, or is it specific?
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Um, I will say for me, it's kind of like up, down, left, right.
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Oh, okay.
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So just like PlayStation.
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You know so so when you're crossing the road, like you're really looking left and right.
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Yeah, essentially.
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Um, so it it is kind of hard to um see things like steadily.
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So yeah, for instance, reading can be a little bit more difficult, I'm sure, and smaller text is obviously harder with anyone with vision loss, but I would assume it gets even harder with that.
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Yeah, no, absolutely.
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It is yeah, it's very difficult.
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Okay.
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Does that make it hard to like watch?
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Um, is it easier when things are for with the Nystagness in particular?
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Does it make it easier to watch, say, movies and stuff if it's further away from you?
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Is it easier to not be interrupted by that movement?
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It's easier when I can see closer because I'm very nearsighted.
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Okay.
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The closer the better.
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But usually when I go to the movies, I have um what's called audio descriptive headphones.
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Okay.
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So it describes the scenes to me.
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And sometimes me and my wife and my friends, we kind of have fun with it based on how the uh narrator describes certain scenes.
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Yeah.
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And I've heard those don't always work either.
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I've heard a lot of uh people in our community say that it's kind of hit and miss, and that's really unfortunate.
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Have you experienced that?
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Oh, yes, depending on which movie theater you go to, um it it's an issue.
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That's too bad.
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Yeah, it sucks.
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I haven't tried it yet, and I'm I'm anxious to try it.
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Yeah, me neither.
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I I think is I think it's worth it, um, because you know, there's some things like when it's like darker scenes that you can't detect or make out.
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Um, it really helps.
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But obviously, if you can see the scenes where it's like brighter light and things like that contrast, you know, it is fine too.
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But you know, if you can see that, fine.
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Yeah.
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But yeah, those darker scenes, it comes in handy very well.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So you said 10 years old is when you're when that you you was you were diagnosed, or is that when you started noticing that something was going on?
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Um, that's when I was officially diagnosed.
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Okay.
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Um, when I noticed things started going on, it was maybe a couple years before then, because um when I was picked to read out loud, like a particular paragraph in one of my classes, and I had the hardest time like reading it out loud because I kept reading slow, but realized because my eyes were moving.
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Right, right.
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Um, you know, the teacher then stopped and was like, okay, you don't have to read anymore.
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So then I felt self-conscious and started thinking, I'm sure.
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Yeah.
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Am I not that bright?
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Am I not what's going on?
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I mean, yeah, at that age you have nothing to compare it to.
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At that age, you just kind of think like maybe everyone's like this, or you know, you're not actually looking at the bigger, the wider scale of everything.
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Right.
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No, absolutely.
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Okay, so going through school for you, was it I'm assuming there were some kind of um but accommodations, like how like getting, I mean, high school's one thing, but getting into college, that would when I was attending college, I didn't, you know, go through my RP, Red Nice Pimitoza.
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I didn't have that going on.
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So I imagine what that would be like, and that sounds just excruciatingly difficult to me.
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What was it like for you?
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Were there a lot of accommodations?
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Was it easy to be in like the social matters of college?
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Like just give us a rundown of that.
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Um, with accommodations, it was very good.
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Um, I had double time, I had note takers for all you know, my assignments and things like that, um, taking notes while in class with me.
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Um I would say it was it made life a lot easier um getting through college because of those accommodations.
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So when it came to assignments or exams, like I said, I had double time, but that also meant I had to get a jump start on my research papers.
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Sure.
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Um like the first week of class because I wanted to make sure I didn't fall behind.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, no, the accommodations, like I said, double time, note takers, it was very helpful.
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And for those of you watching that are maybe younger, we didn't have AI to write us an essay.
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No, we had a pencil, a number two, that we had to sharpen, maybe mechanical if you came from money.
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And then you'd have to write a 10-page paper and maybe overnight because you procrastinated.
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It's not like it is today, guys, just so you know.
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And I'm older than Austin, so I had a stone and a chisel.
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That's what I was yeah, she's over there.
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Oh, good.
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I mean, and you know, what's funny is some people have asked me, like, so who did your research papers?
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I'm like, I did on the computer.
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I've done 20-page papers, I've done 10-page papers, I've done them all.
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I was gonna say, how much did you pay to get your research papers done?
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Right.
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So what what prompted you to go into the field of psychology?
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Oh, that's a great question.
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Um me personally, it was because when I started going through therapy personally, um dealing with my struggles of not being able to drive, you know, and seeing all my friends and classmates taking drivers in and things like that, it really got to me and I felt super depressed.
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So once I got into therapy and uh my therapist started helping me with understanding the differences with my situation versus some other people's.
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I'm like, okay, over time, it took a couple years, but over time, I'm like, okay, I can see myself um really doing this and helping people, and specifically with psychology, what triggered me to want to go into that specifically, other than wanting to help people, was understanding how things in life affect people and their brains and why people do the things that they do.
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Like it's not simply just oh, somebody woke up one day and decided to be depressed.
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Like, no, that's not even how that works.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, so it was just wanting to understand how the brain impacts everyday life with people in their situations.
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Sure.
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Yeah, and that's I I've always thought psychology is so, so interesting.
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The the way people are working through things in their mind, like what's like I am that person, there's that meme or whatever.
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Like, I wonder what's going on in their mind.
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Like, I am that person, like what made you do that exact little thing?
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And it's so interesting to me, and how it's tied to so many things in our past and you know, so many different things.
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But what, if you don't mind, like when when did you actually start going to therapy?
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When um obviously when you're younger, when did you start doing that?
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I was about 15 years old.
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So in high school, like I said, around the time where everybody's starting to take driver's training and everybody's excited.
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Like, oh, I get to have my license, I get to drive, and I can't partake in that because I was soon later diagnosed with RP, and I was already told that physically I wouldn't be able to drive a car um at all, even though later on I was able to drive a go-kart.
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Um, but it was it was in a controlling environment.
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Listen, I think all of us should get together and go to do bumper cars.
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Yes.
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I firmly believe in this.
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Or go-kart racing, just all the blind people, all of us, and just you know, maybe wear three helmets instead of one.
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But it's gonna be so much fun.
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Like charity's gonna end up in the parking lot somehow.
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You know, Chris is gonna be somewhere in the like the pond.
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Oh, look, you're gonna be perfect, Austin.
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Oh no, I'll be upside down on top of the roof for sure.
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Oh, okay.
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Mario Kart.
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Yes, there we go.
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So, okay.
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You you went when you were 15, and what I just want to know, were were you were you told to do that, or is it something that you were okay with?
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You said, like, I actually need this and I want to do this.
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I think therapy can be misunderstood by someone who's younger and can think that it's something to be judged for, even more so because of the not driving thing.
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That was my question.
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Like, how did you feel about going?
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I got you.
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I know you got me.
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You always got me.
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It was a mixture of both where I was encouraged to go, but also um, I really wanted to go because I wanted to be able to get insight from somebody who may be able to assist me further, even though I'm saying it more articulate now, but at the time my thing was I wanted somebody who's trained and has some knowledge and experience in helping people overcome their mental health struggles and challenges.
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Yeah.
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And that's what it was for me because I felt like I didn't have any answers at the time.
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That's a very mature perspective for someone at that point in time of their life.
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I know when I approached um therapy myself, there was a little bit of s of shame associated with it for me that it felt like I couldn't handle something myself and I was gonna have to reach out to somebody else to fix myself.
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I mean, I know that's not the case, and I know you shouldn't approach therapy that way, but for someone who was your age at the time to have the the mental capacity to say, I need this, and there's nothing wrong with it, that's that's wonderful.
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:59.519
Yeah, looking back on it, I I can see now that that I wasn't maybe like the typical or average person in that regard.
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Um, and maybe part of it was because I had heard from maybe some friends, family members, whatever, that you know, that's what therapy is meant for.
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But maybe I didn't really know and understand like all the nitty-gritty, but I know that's what um therapy is there for.
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And of course, over time I got to learn about different therapy approaches, different types of therapists, and all those things.
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But my goal initially was hey, I'm struggling with the fact that I'm 15 at the time and I want to be able to drive, but it seems like I won't be able to, and I feel like my life is hopeless, and I need someone to help me not feel hopeless anymore.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And was it around this time that you was it this initial process with therapy?
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Because I mean a lot of therapy is ongoing.
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Once you start doing it, it's just it's it's part of what you do.
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And but is it was it earlier on that you said, you know what, this would be a cool career?
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Because I mean, around 15 is when they start kind of probing you for what do you want to do with your life and what kind of career path you want to take?
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.639
Um, it wasn't early on.
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:21.279
It it took it took a couple years for me because originally um I was actually going to school to be a mortician, funny enough.
00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:21.840
Okay.
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:25.120
Very sorry, Chris.
00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:27.840
We're supposed to entertain people here.
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:30.559
Not not, you know, goodness gracious.
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.480
We'll we'll edit it out, don't worry.
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Just kidding, man.
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Um, I know that's so random.
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We're like, wait, what?
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:40.879
Work with dead, work with the dead, yes.
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.879
Um a few friends that actually have gone into that or wanted to, so yeah.
00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:46.080
Apparently you're not alone.
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Not you and just the body.
00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:49.360
Yeah, right.
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But you know, after a few personal tragedies, I decided, like, no, I think I want to go more to mental health.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:03.279
And that's what um led me to it.
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But it it took a few years.
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It wasn't like right away because my focus was on just trying to get help for myself in my mental health.
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.279
Okay.
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:22.879
So when when did you actually not just graduate, but when did you say take your first client or patient or whatever, what are we calling it?
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:23.200
Patient?
00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:24.000
Patient.
00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.080
Patient or client, either one.
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.279
Um, when did I take my first client?
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:33.360
I will say, that was oh yeah, that was in 2016, 2016.
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:34.559
14 years ago.
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:35.120
Sure.
00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.759
Did you ever feel doing that like a form of imposter syndrome?
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.200
Oh, I definitely had imposter syndrome.
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.559
Um, thinking like, do I remember everything?
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How how could I actually know all the things?
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You know, I don't see that well, where are some things that I may miss out on?
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All of that.
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I was questioning myself, all of that.
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:06.240
Um, but but then I had to remind myself that not everything is visual when it comes to therapy.
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:15.279
You know, some things you can detect a person's affect and um thoughts and feelings just based on what they're saying and how they're saying it.
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:15.679
Yeah.
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.519
And the little bit of body language you can detect, you go off of that as well.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:21.840
That's that's just that's I have to imagine.
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:27.039
So I felt imposter syndrome so many times in so many different aspects of my life because I, you know, I am not a licensed psychologist.
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.200
Okay, I got my degree on YouTube guy.
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:34.480
But still, I I have always really loved helping people through my life.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:43.519
Go let them talk it out and just um doing that, and it hit a point where I actually have started helping people in certain ways, and they'll tell me, like, dude, you've helped me so much.
00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:44.559
Like, thank you so much.
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:52.240
And I'm looking at myself running into things, bleeding, and then having my own really, really hard days of something going on.
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.879
Like, who am I to be telling someone what they should and should not do?
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:02.320
But it's it's not like therapists and psychologists don't have I you have to have your own bad days as well.
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.799
Doesn't make you any less qualified to be giving people advice and whatnot.
00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.119
So I just imagine there's a lot of that that happens.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.519
Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.279
Um, that's why a lot of therapists have therapists.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:15.839
Yeah.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:18.319
Yeah, that's and then they're that it's just as long.
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:20.480
It feels like a multi-level marketing thing, you know.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:23.920
Then their therapists have therapists, they just keep recruiting therapists under them.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.000
You know, right.
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:39.359
Do you let your clients know in advance that you have vision loss, or do you talk to them when they come in for their first visit, or or do you just avoid it unless they ask?
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:48.480
Usually if it comes up naturally from their end or maybe mine, that's when I will bring it up.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:53.519
Um, I don't normally bring it up like right up front or ahead of time.
00:17:53.680 --> 00:18:03.200
It's one of those things where if something kind of sparks it or kind of makes it stand out type of thing, then I will address it right then and there.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:05.519
I'm not gonna act like it doesn't exist.
00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.920
Um but yeah, no, I I I let it be known.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:21.279
And a lot of times uh my my clients will kind of know up front because they might see my eyes within astagmus moving and like hey, you're so then I just address it right then and there.
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:29.119
So yeah, I'm I'm visually impaired, I have you know, this condition and then for the most part, nobody really cares.
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:29.519
Yeah.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.759
If they do, they don't ever express it, but right I've never lost the quiet.
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.960
You see, wait, your eyes jiggle like that.
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.359
No, I don't want to stay in here with you.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.000
So I imagine your work speaks for itself then.
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:48.160
You know, I mean if if if someone was concerned by the time they're done, if they got nothing to say about it, then it's well, he's really helped me.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:49.440
This guy's kind of awesome.
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:50.000
You know.
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:58.960
Do you feel like going through what you've gone through and dealing with it up until this point has made you a better therapist?
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:04.960
I definitely think so, because I have a I think a very unique perspective.
00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:39.440
You know, on one hand, because I do have some um usable vision, but I can understand you know different things that maybe a fully sighted person may be experiencing in different ways, but because I have, you know, you still usable vision, but I'm considered visually impaired, um I also understand what it's like on the other side of dealing with limitations, dealing with struggles and how that impacts people uh mentally and emotionally and physically.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:46.880
So I just feel like I have a very unique perspective because in a way I feel like I'm kind of living in two worlds at the same time.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:47.119
Yeah.
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:58.000
I do have some vision, but um yeah, so I definitely think everything that I've gone through has prepared me to be a very well-rounded uh clinician.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.119
Yeah, I would think so.
00:19:59.279 --> 00:19:59.839
That's really cool.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.599
And so to build on that, I'm gonna ask you a crazy question here.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:18.400
Do you, you know, you as knowing all the different tools and strategies and ways to help people and whatnot, are there these times where you know the exact coping tool that you should use, but you struggle to use it yourself in those times that you're going through something?
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:38.079
I would say it kind of started off that way, maybe some years ago, but over time I kind of lean more into it as far as like, okay, I know what research says and I understand uh how to apply it and could also help me in different things like that.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:45.519
And also understand some things you can apply, but it may not work as effectively unless maybe you tweak it a little bit.
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:55.200
So and that's because you have to go off of the person's situation because you know there's not a one size fits all solution.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:05.359
That's why when I meet with people, I always say, you know, I work with you based on where you are and approach it in that way.
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:14.960
You know, I tailor my therapeutic style to make sure that I'm addressing the person with where they are, what they're dealing with, and all those things.
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:26.480
But for myself, um yeah, I kind of lean more towards like okay, what are effective cope and strategies that I've learned for myself personally, but also what I've learned um throughout research.
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:27.119
Yeah.
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:27.680
Okay.
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:28.799
That makes sense.
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:35.359
That's it's I've found myself that I am very prone to give advice and not take it myself, and I think a lot of us are.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.640
And but we know it, like we can hear it in our voices.
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:45.200
Like, I just told Brian this, yet I'm struggling to take it myself, and it it helped them and whatnot.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.000
And then I'm sitting there struggling, and I can hear that voice in your head.
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:49.920
Like, you know you're supposed to do it, man.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:51.680
You know what you're doing is not okay.
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:53.279
Like, yeah, just shut up, man.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:56.160
I'm not I'm not talking to you, other voice in my head.
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.000
I'm talking to the other guy.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.839
Maybe I do need to come see you, Chris.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.920
Maybe we could part these voices.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.200
We could talk about it.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.000
Okay.
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:21.440
So do you yourself, you know, as someone with RP and then dealing with cystagness, do you still have days that you struggle with the the weight of all of that just in in general in your life?
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:22.559
Yes.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:24.079
No, absolutely.
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:24.480
Okay.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:34.319
You know, dealing with the fact that I have to rely so heavily on my memory to remember what things are, remember how to do certain things.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.240
Um, daily tasks become very um overwhelming sometimes.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:40.880
Sure.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:49.279
And, you know, something it's funny because my wife will say to me sometimes, like, Wait, how do you remember all of those things?
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.039
And I'm not even talking about just doing daily living activities.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:57.279
I'm talking about just remembering different facts about different things and all of that.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:05.200
And it's like, well, you know, in my situation, I'm kind of prepared for that type of capacity, I think.
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:12.000
Um, where I can remember a lot of things outside of daily living, but also remember the things with daily living.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:20.640
And yeah, um, I still forget, you know, I'm not perfect, but I try my best to stay on top of it and do better um every time.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:31.279
But yeah, no, I definitely have down days where I'm just like, oh, this would be a lot easier if I didn't have to experience this or if I could drive, and all of these things.
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:33.920
So yeah, no, I I definitely have my down days.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:34.720
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:45.839
And you know, the memory thing, I talked to several people in our community, and a lot of people have said the same thing that when my vision started kicking in, it was wild that my recall shot up dramatically.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:47.839
And I started to think about why.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:58.079
I mean, there's that overcompensation thing to where you're always trying to, you know, if you're starting to lose your vision and lose something there, that you try to show up a little bit better somewhere else.
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.240
But also, when we walk into rooms, we have to memorize the layouts like that.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:06.079
Yes, and where exactly did we put the remote and where is this?
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:09.680
And I'll have people that, you know, maybe I walk downstairs to grab something.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.480
Uh some will say, Hey, where did you put the remote at?
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:16.799
It's on the left side of the coffee table towards the back behind the light, turned upside down.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:18.079
Like, whoa.
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:19.200
Right.
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:19.759
Okay.
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:20.640
Yeah.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:22.079
Just extreme detail.
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:25.599
And I'm charity, I'm sure that you can agree with that too, that you've been through those.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.359
It's a strategy and it takes place instantaneously.
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:36.000
When I set my glass down on um a table, I'm like, it immediately registers in my head.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:38.960
I set it, I set my drink over there.
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:45.279
And I do that with every everything in my life, and everything has to be organized and in its place for me.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:50.960
It's it's just a way for me to manage to go through life in a reasonable fashion.
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:57.920
Which is why it's so annoying for people out there who maybe live with someone with vision problems, or you can already hear the sigh.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:58.400
You already know.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:24:59.680
Bring my husband on.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:00.000
Yeah.
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.559
Do not move our things.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:09.200
I know where it is placed might seem odd.
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:11.759
You might think, hey, it's gonna get knocked over there.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:16.000
But trust me, I knew when I kicked off my left shoe that it landed behind the table.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.640
And the right one, I know it's over by the fireplace.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.160
I know where they're at.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.680
But if you are going to move things, just tell us.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.759
Tell us, hey, I'm moving this here.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:27.519
And don't put things in our space.
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:31.119
My husband's a good one to set down a water bottle with the cap off.
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.119
Like put the cap on at least.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:34.559
Put the cap off.
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:40.640
And Chris, when you were talking about your wife and how she's amazed by your memory, I can tell you what she's really thinking.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:42.559
She's really thinking, how can you memorize?
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:47.039
Yeah, how can you understand and remember all of that, but forget to take the trash out?
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:48.880
That's what she was thinking.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:56.079
I mean, it's happened, but I said allegedly.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.119
We remember what we want to remember.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:00.480
Right.
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:27.039
Oh, it's it's so funny that um we're saying this in regards to memory because I read online not too long ago, I believe it was either through the National Federation for the Blind or the American Council for the Blind, but it said something along the lines of 85% of the information that we receive every day is accounted through our vision.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:43.039
And so the average fully sighted person doesn't truly understand that uh when we rely on our other senses, even if we have usable vision, it's we use other senses to gather the same information.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:58.720
But because the average person uses, like I said, heavily on their site, and that's how they get 85% of the information, they take for granted and I'll truly understand that you can navigate in different ways without just your vision.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:09.599
A lot of people um go immediately to we have a higher, a heightened sense of hearing, but I will tell you that even um touch.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:16.160
I and at our previous house, I walked through our house every day and I'm like, our floors aren't even.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.279
And people would come into our house, I'm like, no, they're even, they're even.
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:20.880
My husband's like, I think you're crazy.
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:22.640
Like the floors aren't even.
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:43.200
And there was actually an issue under our house with our floors, they weren't braced properly, but our sense of touch and that and feeling and hearing, it all becomes heightened, or maybe not heightened, but we just become more in tune to compensate for the fact that we're not seeing so much of the world.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:50.799
Yeah, the way I've described it to people, Cherry, you probably heard me say it before, but too, when people bring that up, it's always like, dude, are you like Daredevil?
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.799
Like, oh yeah.
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.880
No, man, I I do not put on a suit and go fight crime.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:06.319
And uh, I probably shouldn't because let's be honest, walking around a city, not being able to put them on an Uber to the next crime, you know, like it's like no, man.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:14.480
But I tell people this, I I tell them, you know, what it basically is, because yes, my hearing has kind of seemed to be a little bit more heightened.
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.480
And I agree with you, Cherry, with the touch thing and whatnot.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:27.920
So what I tell people is like, imagine if you're sitting in a room, you're sitting in a house, and you're looking out uh over out of the windows towards the street, and there's five windows representing one sense that we that we have, five senses.
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:32.400
And with our vision going out or our vision gone, you close the blinds on one of those windows.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.119
So naturally you're paying attention to four windows instead of five.
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.519
You have more focus on the other four windows.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:38.799
That's a great analogy.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:41.119
It's been an easy way to explain it to people.
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:41.519
Yeah.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:42.079
Mm-hmm.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:43.599
Yeah, that's a great one.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:29:04.319
So, Chris, what going into kind of what you study and what your professionalism is and what you dealt with yourself, and it's not just vision loss, but I think a lot of the things that we deal with and people uh can understand even outside of the the vision loss world is friends and family often misunderstanding what we're going through.
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:15.839
For you, what do you think if there if you could generalize like what friends and family most often misunderstand about someone going through something, whether it be vision loss or something even more broad, what would you say that that might be?
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:17.680
I'll start with vision loss.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:31.279
Um vision loss, I will say with friends and family, I I think now for me personally, there's a a little bit better understanding, especially specifically like for my situation.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:40.960
But outside of that, I would say in general, it's people still have this misconception that um vision is either you have it or you don't.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:41.440
Yeah.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.839
Instead of viewing it as a spectrum, they look at it as either or.
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:50.160
And I really think that's still unfortunate to this day.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.000
But it's wild, you know.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:53.119
I thought it was too.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.240
I thought it was black and white.
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:55.279
I was wrong.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:01.920
And I don't think there's enough that I feel like that should be something that's taught as a child in like health class.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.319
That is just something so easy to teach people.
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:04.640
Yeah.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:13.359
I know, but if you think about it when when you work with, I mean, look, think about when you were a kid and you're like, you're pretending to be blind and it you're completely blind.
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.359
They blindfold you, you're completely blind.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.880
It's not like they give you a partial blindfold and they let you walk around.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:22.079
Yeah, you're just it's either you're blind or you're not.
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:24.000
And I would have thought the same thing.
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:29.039
Like I figured one day the lights would just go out and that'd be it.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:29.759
Yep.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:41.359
Um but other than vision loss, I would say the other thing outside of that that friends and family may not truly understand in general is mental health.
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:42.000
Yeah.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.920
That is not about, oh well, depression is just sadness.
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:51.440
Like, no, depression impacts um mentally, emotionally, physically.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:01.359
You know, there are people who, depending on their level of severity with depression, can't actually get out of bed to go and bathe and clean themselves.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.079
It's not that they're being lazy, it's the depression is debilitating.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:16.640
So um understanding that mental health is not simply a choice that you just decide one day, like, yep, I'm gonna be depressed, or yep, I have bipolar.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.079
It doesn't work that way.
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:18.640
Yeah.
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:24.240
And I think it's probably really easy with mental health for that too, is because mental health is not something physical.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:28.000
Mental health is not something you can simulate or try it on to see.
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:33.119
You can't put a pair of goggles on to simulate bipolar or split personalities and all that stuff.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.759
You you can't try it out and see, oh, that's what you're going through.
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.160
You have to, you know, people just assume, and a lot of people with mental health.
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:57.119
I've noticed in my life that it seems like people that say they want to help you out what you're going through and whatnot, they seem to have a very low threshold for actually listening to what it is because they refuse to understand or it's so outside of what they're used to.
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:03.119
It's one of those things, it's not gray, it's either black, it's black and white when you're dealing with mental health issues.
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:04.160
Exactly.
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:14.480
Just like it's funny you say that because I'm thinking about how people have this misconception about schizophrenia and what it really is versus what it looks like.
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.720
I mean, people confuse hallucinations, for example.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.880
They don't realize that hallucinations affect all your senses.
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:31.440
It's not just auditory, it's not just um visual, it's taste, it's touch, it's it's all of that.
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:31.839
Yeah.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:39.119
You know, the most common ones are visual and hearing, but technically hallucinations affect every aspect of your senses.
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.200
And that might be part of too, right?
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.039
They'll because they'll display schizophrenia.
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:48.640
That's a that's a hot topic, one for movies and TV when they display that, and you can't feel it.
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:53.519
You you can't uh and experience the other senses that it affects through a screen.
00:32:53.839 --> 00:33:01.279
So I think TV and movies might be part of the problem when it comes to mental health and understanding it truly, that the depth that it can really go.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:16.480
I will say, real quick, yeah, if anybody wanted to watch um a series, it's it's kind of older now, but a series that depicts like therapy and working with people like from a therapist perspective.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:25.359
The closest to being accurate depiction of that, it was a series on HBO called in treatment.
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.000
Okay.
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:33.519
So if ever you guys want to check it out, I think it might still be on Amazon Prime or whatever.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:33.920
Yeah.
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:38.319
Um, yeah, it's called In Treatment, and I highly recommend it.
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:44.799
I actually have like all three seasons on DVD because it was it was so it was so good.
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:52.640
Like, I mean, it's still TV, but to me, that's probably the closest to being accurate depiction of what therapy looks like.
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:56.240
Okay, so that just to be clear, that's not where you got your education from, right?
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:57.119
Right.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.359
No, okay, no, I didn't get it from there.
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:01.920
Oh, yeah.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:03.680
You were writing reports, were you?
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:07.920
No, you you were you had a bowl of popcorn, you were watching a show, so I'm gonna do that.
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:10.800
No.
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:12.880
It's terrible.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:47.519
So okay, what um, so with that, like how if you know, if you have friends and family, how what is the best way do you think if someone is going through something for people out there that are around someone that is going through something, and it might be this might be a two-answered thing again, it might be the blindness and then of something bigger, but what do you think is the best way, not to support, because that's such a large window of things that it could be, but what's the best way to approach the way you're going to support someone and truly try to help them with something your friend or your family member is going through?
00:34:47.920 --> 00:35:04.800
To me, the initial approach would be to you know let the person know that it's okay to feel what he or she is experiencing, and then let them know, like, hey, I am uh I will be there to listen to you, be there to say with you, whatever you know you need me to do.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:15.039
Um so basically assuring the person that you can be support of any kind, and to you know, let them know like it's okay to feel what you're feeling.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:32.559
Because I I think when it comes to mental health or anything in life, period, I think the biggest barrier for a lot of people to reach out for help in any kind is this judgment, the assumptions.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:33.039
Yeah.
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:55.519
So if you can alleviate that off the just off the top, then I I think that's where you're gonna start getting more reassurance from the other person, like, hey, I can definitely talk with so-and-so, hey, I can definitely talk with Cherry, I could talk with Austin, and they seem to be very cool about you know, whatever.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:19.679
Now, that doesn't mean that you guys are automatically gonna be their therapists or sure, you know, support every aspect of everything in life, but it lets them know, like, hey, I do have somebody in my life that cares and is willing to listen, is willing to um maybe even give um advice or even some resources of some kind.
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:20.320
Yeah.
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:22.880
I I'm really glad you said that.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:32.559
I am going through a situation with a friend of mine right now, and my my only thing that I can do for her is to validate her feelings.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.920
I can't give her advice because I have no advice to give.
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:54.639
But I think it's important that as long as you're not supporting something that is negative that they're doing, if it's you're just supporting and validating their feelings, I think that is one of the most important things that you can do for a person to start with is to validate the place that they're in.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.280
And like I said, I can't give her any advice.
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.800
I I don't have any for her, but I can be there with her.
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:08.320
And she has said, you know, like, I'm I'm thankful that you're here, that I can trust you, and I know you're here for me.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:14.400
And I think that for myself, that would be one of the most important things is to know that I'm not alone.
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.679
Wherever I'm at in my journey, I'm not alone.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.000
That someone's there walking with me.
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:21.199
Yeah, I agree.
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:39.679
And I would build on top of that too, saying as someone who's going to try and help someone support someone, whether even if it's just a basic conversation or if it's gonna be something more in depth than that, that it's important as that person to make sure whether you do it verbally or just with yourself, to draw out your boundaries and what you are actually willing to bring to the table.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:46.559
Because don't make the person that is that needs help think that you're gonna be there for them, that you are that rock.
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:55.440
Because it's very easy to start getting into that idea to where the people, you know, they believe that you'll be there for them for all of it, because the way that you're talking.
00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:09.840
But if you don't set those boundaries with yourself and with them, you'll end up letting them down even further because you end up getting to a point where you're not actually, you aren't prepared to do another call, another day, and then you have to show up and like, God, are we doing this again?
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:18.719
Like just just let them know, like, listen, I'm you know, just set the boundaries for yourself, for them, so you don't end up in this awkward, disappointing situation.
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:19.280
Yeah.
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:19.679
Right.
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:35.199
Do you ever um I know dealing with vision loss, we don't have we have bad days all the time, and we get through one bad day, and then something else happens, our vision changes, or our life circumstance changes, and we're dealing with something else.
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.920
And I know, Chris, you must have you deal with that as well.
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:47.199
But then on top of that, you are dealing with clients who come to you and bring you their issues.
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:58.960
And do you ever feel just I think we called it support fatigue the other day, um, where it just feels like it's piling up on you.
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:02.000
Do you take on their problems as your own?
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.159
Do you feel them emotionally and pile that on top of what you're already feeling?
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:25.920
Or can you separate that it has happened to me at times as a therapist, you know, where you have certain clients and you know their situations and you just envision, like, oh my goodness, they they're actually going through what they're describing and all these things.
00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:42.480
I would say I try my best to do my part with separating all those things for myself because you know, complicated compassion fatigue um or compassion burnout is a real thing.
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:50.000
Yeah, as therapists is something that we as therapists often deal with, that we you know sometimes struggle with.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:40:10.239
And like I said, I still deal with it at times, but I've been learning over the years since I've been uh practicing to take time to kind of like debrief myself to excel and to learn to separate uh my client's situation from my own personal situations.
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:18.559
There are some heavy hitters where you're like, oh my goodness, like I can't believe what I'm hearing right now.
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:24.400
Um because essentially it's um vicarious trauma, you know, that we experience.
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:28.480
So yeah, like I I definitely experience that time from time.
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:39.599
Um but I I just practice with like exhaling, I do some breathing, and then I try to um kind of do some exercises with like separating the situations.
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:40.320
Yeah.
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:55.519
Yeah, that's a really important thing to do, is that separation of it's really easy to start just balling up everything together, then you start unproportionately responding to things that did not deserve that kind of stress or that response or whatever it may be.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:57.519
Such a really good thing to say.
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:12.000
How would you say, since we're on this topic, how would you say to respond, whether it maybe it's you yourself, how you would actually do it, but maybe what you would advise someone to do, because sometimes getting advice can be very unwarranted and unwelcomed.
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:28.559
And people find a reason to give you advice anyways, and it can be easy sometimes to kind of pop off on those people, just you know, mind your business, but how would you what would what kind of advice would you give on how to deal with unwanted advice from someone?
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.400
In general, yeah, just I mean, in general, it could be with vision loss too.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:46.559
I know there's a lot of us out there that in whether you have um vision loss or not, to where people will try to help you and you weren't actually asking for help, and it can be a hard time sometimes explaining yourself the correct way to you know what I mean?
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:49.920
Like it can come off very rude, but it's not meant to be.
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:55.199
Like if Austin's giving me advice and it's and and I don't want it.
00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:05.599
I or I just maybe a lot of times you just need to talk, you just need to tell someone something, and you don't want them because it's easy for them to say, Oh, well, you should do this or you should do that.
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.159
Well, okay, that's easy for you to say.
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.280
And I would find myself snapping at him.
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.639
It is are there ways to deal with that that may be better?
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.480
I was articulated much better.
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:26.960
Um, so for me, the approach that I try my very best to take is like, hey, I hear what you're saying and I appreciate you trying to help.
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:32.400
However, right now I I could use something else in this situation.
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:36.480
Or like, hey, I acknowledge what you're saying, thank you.
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:42.000
However, it might be better to whatever the situation entails.
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:50.960
Because to me when a person is trying to help, it's like, okay, they're they're really, they're sincerely trying to help, right?
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.840
So we don't want to completely dismiss them.
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.239
So that's why I'm like, okay, acknowledge.
00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:59.760
That's usually my approach, like acknowledge, but then explain.
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:13.199
Like, hey, you know, I I appreciate what you said, but at the same time, like I could do or I could use something different, or I could use more help and you know, that type of thing.
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:16.079
Like, hey, that that's that's my approach.
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:20.639
That's that's my um take on how to deal with unwanted advice.
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:25.679
Well, that's an awesome it's a it's an awesome approach, and it's great advice for me.
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:34.159
I'm gonna take that because I take a lot of things to heart, and I'm the type of person who would just pop off on you.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:37.360
But now I'm gonna say I appreciate that, Austin.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.039
But right now I just need you to listen to my pain.
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:43.840
Right.
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:59.760
Or even or sometimes if you're like trying to vent to a friend and they're just like, okay, well, here's a solution, and here it's like sometimes I even have to learn this for myself that sometimes.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.599
Times it's like, hey, before we start, I just want to let you know I I just need time to vent right now.
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:13.679
So that way that person that you're speaking with can know, like, okay, how I this is how I need to approach the conversation.
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.679
Yeah, that's great advice too.
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:16.239
Yeah.
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:16.559
Yeah.
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:18.000
Great advice.
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:18.719
Okay.
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:33.280
Since since we've all been through here, but specifically since what you do for a living, what do you think what what um what tool or strategy thinks do you think helps with dealing with a future that's uncertain?
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:44.639
That you know, I mean, and and this isn't just vision loss, this is in general, with something that it's just you have no idea what's coming, and obviously we experience that directly.
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:46.159
Great question, actually.
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:55.760
The approach that I use is focusing more on the possibilities of what you can do.
00:44:56.559 --> 00:45:08.719
Even though, yes, it's scary, but I take the um other approach of look at the things that in life that you can't control, but also compare it against what you can control.
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:09.280
Yeah.
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:25.119
So if you look at the things you can control, that you can um have a say in or have an opinion or have whatever it may be, those are the things that you really want to focus more of your energy on.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:29.599
Not to say that you can't think about the things you can't control, because it is.
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:34.320
But I I think you have to allow yourself time to acknowledge that first.
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:39.360
Acknowledge the things you can't control, the things you can't do, and it's okay.
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:41.519
It is okay because you're human.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:43.199
There's nothing wrong with that.
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:54.239
But the approach overall that I use is okay, I acknowledge what I can't do or what's uncertain, and then I've directed more towards okay, what can I do?
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:56.079
How can I navigate this?
00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:58.480
What is certain for me right now?
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:00.480
What do I have control over?
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:01.599
What can I say?
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.559
It feels like our only certainty lies in today.
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.039
So for myself, that's what I do.
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:14.320
I maybe it's you can tell me it's unhealthy and I'll go seek out a new therapist or whatever, or or a therapist, period.
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:19.840
But I try to, in order to keep myself sane, I have to focus on today.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.519
I can't think about tomorrow.
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:26.400
I think about a little bit about tomorrow, but not we don't know what's gonna happen.
00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:28.239
We don't know what's coming down the road.
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:31.039
So I know what's in my here and now today.
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:32.079
That's what's real.
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:41.119
And so that's what I try to focus on every day, or else I'll get caught up in the whatever is gonna happen, and I don't know what that is.
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:44.320
So yeah, I used to struggle a lot with control.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:47:04.159
I had this unreasonable fantasy that I was in so much control of my life, and in some instances I was, but it was driving me up a wall because then everything that was going wrong in life, I found a way to either be completely irrational about how it happened or just blame myself for it.
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:05.760
Because why did you let that happen?
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:07.840
You could have done this instead, you could have done this instead.
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.119
Well, there's always that answer, and it drove me crazy.
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:20.960
And I found instead of, you know, I mean, that's like you only have today, really, but when I started breaking everything down in my life into little tasks, I can do this little thing.
00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:24.480
Well, I can control the little tasks that can lead up to something larger.
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:28.800
But just that, but it's it's those little things, and those little things happen today.
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:32.000
They happen next hour, they happen tomorrow.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.519
But you know, next month, I have 30 days to get to that.
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:37.840
I mean, I might who knows what's gonna happen to me in 30 days.
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.119
I might walk off a bridge, you know.
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.840
Not because I wanted to, it's because I thought I was going into Taco Bell.
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.679
But you know, things happen.
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:48.480
Taco Bell.
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:50.719
Listen, I love me some T Bell.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:59.840
I just I am sponsored on unofficially, and if Taco Bell's listening, I want the sponsorship.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.360
Um, so in in line with that, what's uh what's a small habit for you?
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:08.960
Do you do you think that you've used some habitual thing?
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:16.559
Um, you know, some people's meditation, there's all these little things, but that has made life easier of dealing with these uncertain times.
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:18.559
Oh, that's another great question.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:24.800
So for me, um habitually I do a I do a few things.
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:39.440
So the first thing I do is I pause and then I just do a breathing exercise, um, so I can control modeling my breathing, but I try to reduce anxiety as much as possible.
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:46.960
Of like, okay, it's uncertain, but like here's the thing I need to just stay calm as much as we can.
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:54.400
And then the second thing that I do is I I acknowledge what's happening.
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:59.039
Like I try to live in the here and now, as Jarody had previously stated.
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:03.679
I try to live in reality of okay, this is the situation.
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:11.199
So what's what's what can we do about it and how do we progress moving forward?
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:19.760
So those are the two things that potentially that I do, like I said, breathing and then just try to think about everything in the here and now.
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:22.960
What's the pressing situation ahead or right now?
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:25.840
What's really pressing right now?
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:26.400
Yep.
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:33.519
Okay, and then try to prioritize a list of okay, this is what I need to do now versus okay, this can wait.
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:34.079
Yep.
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:36.000
So I'm not getting overwhelmed.
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:36.800
Absolutely.
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:51.199
That's uh that became a really big deal for me is uh I actually literally listing things, is especially because I would, you know, when I'd write out my journal or my calendar or what have you day by day, and I'd end up filling this whole massive block with so many things.
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:52.639
And it was unrealistic.
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:54.880
I was never going to get through all those that day.
00:49:55.039 --> 00:50:03.440
And it would end up weighing on me and driving me crazy and then putting me into almost just a like a state of doing nothing at all because I was overwhelmed by everything.
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:08.000
So instead, I cut that list down by 75, 80 percent.
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:19.119
Here's what I can do right now that will change my situation right now, that will move my needle right now, that'll allow me to deal with what's in front of me right now instead of all the other things.
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:20.960
Prioritize, prioritize, prioritize.
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:21.920
I completely agree with that.
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:24.000
And I completely agree with the breathing.
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:37.679
I'm not one, I'm not a strong proponent of breathing exercises, or I wasn't until I went to get my last dog and I had a stressful situation and I got off a bus and I was about ready to break down.
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:44.559
And my trainer is just like, take a deep breath three times, let it out and see where we're at.
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:54.000
And I was surprised when I was done doing that, like your anxiety is reduced, and you can like think clearly about what's actually happening in that moment.
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.000
And like nothing was, I was breathing.
00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:57.760
So it calms you down.
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:03.920
Yeah, that's uh that's I it took me a while to actually accept doing that.
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:06.800
And I think it's because I thought it was such a cliche.
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:08.960
Like, tell me to breathe one more time.
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:09.440
Right.
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.320
Yeah, because that's just gonna make my problems go, dude.
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:13.039
Just try it.
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:13.760
Okay.
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:14.480
It does.
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:18.719
One, two, then by four, you're like, oh no, they're right.
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:20.000
Oh yeah, they're right.
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:33.199
But that, yeah, that's um, and I also uh began using when I was really in a state of mania, just absolute manic life at all times, was uh their what are they called?
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:34.800
Are they mantra beads?
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:37.519
But they there's 180 of them around like a necklace.
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:38.719
I wear them around my wrist a lot.
00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:41.840
And when I would get into that, I would take it off and you count, and it's 180.
00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:45.440
You go one, two, three, and you count in your mind.
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:55.119
And that like it it gives you 180 seconds roughly to just chill out and focus on one simple task and then to resume life.
00:51:55.280 --> 00:52:08.079
And it really did help quite a bit in a lot of different times, and now I wear them almost religiously because of one, just what they mean to me in those random times that it happens, and I'll sit there and then I'm anxiety-filled, and I'll just sit there and count them, and it helps.
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:09.119
That's great.
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:10.480
Yeah, they're very cool.
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:11.360
Yeah, okay.
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:19.440
So we're we're about out of time, and I like to do a closing with everyone and you know, ask them some philosophical question or them to talk to the audience.
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:26.559
But I want to ask you specifically, Chris, I have this written down is what would you tell someone who is struggling with a change they cannot control?
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:31.440
Something that is inevitable for us, that is, you know, our progressive vision loss.
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:33.599
We know it can get worse and worse.
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:39.840
We know that we might not be able to drive, or I mean, we obviously already know that, but some people are getting to the idea that that will happen to them.
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:49.840
But what would you tell someone who is struggling with the uncertainty, but knowing that there is change coming that they have absolutely zero control over?
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:54.480
I would say first and foremost, it's okay to not be okay.
00:52:54.800 --> 00:53:00.639
Um, you are human and also preparation is key.
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:21.840
So once you start to feel at ease and can navigate things step by step, day by day, moment by moment, then during that time prepare for when it's when it's time because better to be prepared and it happens than then in that.
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:22.639
Awesome.
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:23.119
Awesome.
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:28.079
Okay, before we go, I remember that you had told me that you and your wife were doing a podcast as well.
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:30.719
Um, and you're still doing that.
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.880
So I I know it's not as frequent, right?
00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:34.639
But you are still doing that with her?
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:36.960
Right now we're kind of on hiatus.
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:37.280
Okay.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.480
We do have um some episodes already um on YouTube, on Spotify, things like that.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:44.960
Awesome.
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:46.159
And what's it called?
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:49.280
It's called Um A Couple of Kemers.
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:55.360
And that's K-E-E-M-E-R-S for everyone that is listening that wants to check out more from Chris.
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.480
And if I remember correctly, it is not just about vision loss, right?
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.840
There's it, it's about a lot of different things with you and your wife.
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:02.400
Yes.
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:03.280
Yeah, perfect.
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:03.679
I love it.
00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:04.000
Awesome.
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.159
So if anyone wants to check that out, go ahead.
00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:09.519
We will make sure that we drop the link into the description as well.
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.400
Um, as always, guys, thank you for stopping by.
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:20.320
Once again, this is Chris Kemer, who is a licensed psychologist, but also deals with vision loss, right now it's pigmentosa and nystagmus.
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:21.840
So it's been a great time, Chris.
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:22.960
We appreciate you.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:26.320
For anyone listening, again, please like, share, follow.
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:28.960
It helps us meet some of these awesome guests.
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:33.920
It helps us talk to people who have a message that can greatly help other people around the world.
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:37.119
So if you like, if you share, if you follow, leave a comment.
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.599
It helps us spread that and get in front of people.
00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:42.239
Also, if you have any questions, please put it out there.
00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:42.960
Ask us.
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:46.960
And if it's something that pertains to Chris, we'll try to tag him and see if he's got an answer for you.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:47.840
We'd love to see it.
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:49.039
We'd love to hear from you.
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:51.679
It's something we enjoy greatly when we get online.
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:55.840
So that is Facebook, Instagram, TikTok at Central Vision Podcast.
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:58.239
We are also Central Vision Podcast.com.
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:00.800
For all those that are listening, we are also on YouTube.
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:02.559
Thank you guys so much for stopping by.
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:04.000
We'll see you next Tuesday.
