Steve Mandernach previews AFDO 26 and discusses AI, FDA Collaboration, and the Future of Food Safety

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This is the Beyond Data Management Podcast powered by HS GovTech.
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Now here's your host, Cameron Garrison.
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Welcome back, First Art.
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We had a little bit of a delay.
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We've been traveling for conferences and things, but hello everybody again.
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I'll talk to EH and Regulatory Nation.
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Welcome back.
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So we are I can't believe how fast the year is going.
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So joining us today is going to be, and actually I fully thought that he would have been on between the first time he was and now, but time's just been flying so quickly.
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But Steve Andernack who runs AFT, the guy, and does some really, really forward-thinking things there, which I'm sure we'll end up talking about to one degree or another today.
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But uh Steve, I really can't believe it that next week the Afto conference starts.
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I it kept in my mind feeling so far away, but now it's here.
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Uh uh same way for us.
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And even more, uh thing that blows my mind more is I'm literally thinking about 27 right now, uh, almost more than uh 26, which is just amazing.
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Yeah, you but because booking those conferences, what a lot of people that attend them don't realize is just what a long, hard effort that is, isn't it?
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We're seven uh we have the next uh eight years booked um at this point.
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Um part of it is uh it becomes more and more challenging to find sites that are the right size, the right cost.
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Uh, you know, every uh$10 more hotel rate is the fewer government people that can afford to attend.
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So getting into those uh spots that are less expensive makes a big deal to our audience.
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That's a great point.
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It's Columbus this year, and we'll be talking about the preview of what to get after a couple of exciting things uh that we're we're doing there.
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However, um so I get this question a lot actually when I'm at conferences.
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People will ask, how do they pick these cities?
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Um and uh we won't we won't use it's not your conference.
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Appreciate the fact that you don't go to 110 degree plus locations in the summer if you can help it.
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Well, next year we actually are.
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We're back in Phoenix again next year.
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But it's a dry heat.
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And we will be a little bit earlier than we were the last time.
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So I'm hoping we don't see 114 again.
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It's not like uh, you know, New Orleans or uh that in the summer where you drown stepping out.
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No, no, no, no.
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But you know, I think uh that is one of the challenges when you're looking for those value properties, which you don't always get to choose the place you want to go um when you want to go.
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Um, you know, so that's one of our challenges.
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But I think uh you our folks will find that we tend to choose cities that make sense, they're easy to get to, they're relatively inexpensive, and also that have a lot of things within walk uh walking distance or a short Uber ride.
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And you always book so you travel all the time, right?
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And so I don't know about you, but I get to be a little bit of a hotel snob j just because like you have to sp I spent 200 nights in a hotel last year, give or take.
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And so like I have this always this test.
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Uh again, I'm a weirdo, but I judge uh the hotel by the sock factor, meaning am I gonna take my socks off when I go to bed?
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Because do I want my bare feet on that floor?
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You know, but you always have picked, the point being really nice hotels.
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Like the not off-brand or cut rate.
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It's been noticeable.
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No, no, we uh we we try to stay with the major brands.
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Um, and all three of our properties that we're using over the next number of years are um nice hotels.
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I think you all uh people will enjoy them.
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They all have unique features.
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Uh, most of them are right near an entertainment district, so it's literally walking distance to a bunch of restaurants and and uh nightlife, etc.
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So I think people will enjoy that.
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And that always makes it easier and easy to travel to a relatively inexpensive area.
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Another thing that clearly must be on your list is airline hubs, right?
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Like how are how do we take a connection stinks?
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Well, I mean, there's some of that.
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I mean, I think we look for good air service.
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Um, one of our signs is, you know, I'll be honest, I look to see um does Alaska airlines go there.
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That's a pretty good sign of a market that's big enough to have relatively good air service from almost anywhere.
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It's actually really like clever that because you that is an airline that won't be in one that's just got one dominant, right?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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But you know, we find that those cities that have it are big enough that we don't have hard uh it's not hard to get uh airlift then.
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Um so you know, that helps.
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Um you know, there's a lot of factors in it.
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Lots of direct connections are helpful.
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I mean, uh, when we looked uh part of the reason we like Columbus and we have actually used it for a bunch of our uh work in the medical products space, and uh we get really positive feedback from folks that are senior executives in major pharmaceutical medical products companies.
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They just love uh Columbus.
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So we think our our audience will enjoy it also.
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Yeah, home of Wendy's as well.
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It is so Jorge team, I know they're they're gonna be there, they have a presence on Home Turf.
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Um, so I actually got asked the other day uh by someone um who I was like you going to AFTO, you you you should they've never been, and I said you should you should go.
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And um they were asking, well, what's the difference and how's it work with WAFTO, WAF DOS?
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Uh as I was in Colombia, I believe that was WAF DOS, and um WAFDO was in Honolulu.
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Talk about a great spot um this past year.
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But maybe just for folks that aren't members and should be, we'll put the information on how you can in the links in the description.
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But what what are the different conferences and what interplay or how are they all part of the bigger picture from your standpoint?
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Imagine AFTO is the national parent organization, and then you have regional affiliates that are across the country, WAFTO in the West, uh, you know, and then we go work our way across the country uh through the various affiliates, including AFTOS, CASA, um, Nefdoa, uh, NCAFTO, and MICAFTO.
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Um, so depending on what part of the country.
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So uh each of them have a little bit different flavor.
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Um, most of them do some sort of normally annual conference.
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Some of them have been doing more virtual events than the actual annual conference for various reasons.
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Um, they're finding that works better for them.
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Often they part partner with other organizations when they're doing this.
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Um, but you know, they each have a little bit different flavor, a little bit different interest, uh, but they each do the do that role.
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And uh and actually part of our board is actually selected from each of those uh regional affiliates and help uh uh drive the direction AFTA was going.
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But they're very much a part of our world.
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Um, oftentimes they do tend to have more of the folks that are getting closer to line inspector level.
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Um some line inspectors, but it tends to be a lot of program leadership.
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Um sometimes when you get to the regional affiliates, you just get to see a few more inspector level uh individuals there too.
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And they're great conferences.
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Um the team that's uh putting it together asked if we would bring the podcast on the road to Denver this fall.
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So actually, you actually will we we will be able to hopefully pin you down, and it won't be a year uh since because we'll I think you're gonna be there, right?
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Yeah, I'm doing one of the uh uh presentations.
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I think I'm talking food safety culture at that one, if I remember right.
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Oh, awesome.
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Yeah, we're excited to think about it.
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Group cause, yeah, that's a big topic.
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It is, and it's something that I think uh in the regulatory community we can do far better at, particularly in retail food safety.
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Uh we write violations all over and over again, but we don't ever actually solve for the problem.
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Uh and we really need to get to that solution.
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Yeah, so I will promise I'll stop for the audience with the inside baseball, but we we I saw you, I took way too much of your time when we were chatting at CHA.
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And um, did you hear where they're planning to have it next year?
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I have not.
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Is it good?
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Yeah, so Megan's gonna probably kill me there.
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Um but uh so there's one contingency, and I think we're safe.
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Uh as long as the Sacramento Kings uh don't pull off a miracle and make the playoffs next year, it's an NBA arena.
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Oh, that's cool.
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And so apparently they're gonna do some things with maybe the luxury boxes.
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Again, it's please don't don't go back and hold them to any of it because it's in process.
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And Megan is one of the best in the country at working all year to put on a great conference.
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And I told her, I said, Megan, I've never asked you for anything.
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But I'm having a flashback to my you know junior high kid dreams of one day being in an NBA locker room.
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So can you arrange to let me just walk in the locker room?
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You know, I I actually got to do that in one of the uh they sock just recently at one of their stadiums, and that was a pretty interesting because those stadiums are are really modern and fancy, aren't they?
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Absolutely.
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It was fascinating and very much built for events.
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Do you mind me asking?
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You mind me asking what city, which one you're in?
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St.
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Louis, uh, which is actually gonna be right across from where we are in 2028.
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Um, so uh is the soccer arena in its a beautiful new arena, um, some of the best space I've ever seen.
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I will also say the best hotel I've ever stayed at was actually in a um I'm trying to think a rugby arena uh in just outside of London.
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And you literally looked out over the rugby field and stuff.
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It was kind of cool.
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Oh, that is that's really, really cool.
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So I I it will tell you curveball, but I don't think you'll mind.
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So when you were on it, it's literally been just let me, I'll actually tell tell the audience for the record.
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So it was 13 months and two days from the last time you aired.
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But one of still the most engaged with or it was a clip out of that conversation we had was uh when you in a very hilarious, colorful form, talked about the cost of indecision.
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Um and example is the FDA for folks that may not have seen it because the audience has grown a lot since then.
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We'll uh we'll play it right now and then we'll uh I'll tell you what all the feedback was about.
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Lack of decision making is making a decision, but it creates a hand.
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I mean, and and I've watched a lot of folks that were in those leadership roles that could not make decisions, not I will say not just at FDA sign in other places where we had leaders that could not make a decision and would not make a decision because someone might not be happy.
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Well, you know, not making a decision has severe consequences normally.
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Um, and even making the wrong decision often has lesser consequence than indecision, um, which is very scary for my uh to say that out loud, but it's very true.
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I mean, I I have been there now.
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I don't think you have to make premature decisions, but I think at some point you have to decide.
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Let me talk about food chemicals.
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I know some of our folks have been following this a little bit in the handful of state laws about food chemicals, and now the big emphasis at FDA about food chemicals as a as an example.
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When you do not respond to a petition for 25 years, you should anticipate that they're gonna look for another mechanism to have their need addressed.
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And they did.
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I am just real.
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That that isn't real.
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And in a way, it's kind of surprising that you'd be irritated about that.
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It's like 25 years a long time.
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It is nuts that you know, uh CSPI had a petition out on some of the uh uh uh uh color additives for 25 years that did not get responded to by FDA.
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Um you know that that's like that petition would have been out of college.
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Yeah, I mean, you know, the those that was what we were routinely seeing is that the decisions would just sit at FDA for undescribable periods of time.
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So I don't know, maybe we were hoping somebody from FDA wasn't listening or was.
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I don't know what was better, but that got so engaged with and it was very I can summarize the majority of the comments as wow.
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Sadly, I'm sure this problem's not solved.
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Sadly, I bet he's got a hundred that are as bad or worse.
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Like people really love that.
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Um so don't want to put you in a uh tough spot, but like people like uh it hasn't been solved, right?
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It's been uh been a year, but still probably happening.
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I I think we're moving closer to solutions.
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Um, so FDA has been actively working in this space the last uh really, I would say the last 13 months or so, and I think we're getting closer.
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We may actually see a solution in the nearer future.
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Um, I think we're gonna start seeing some true uh rule proposals, um, in other words, CFR revisions uh as we get further uh further along.
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We're actually standing seeing the stand-up of some of the programs related to chemical safety, some reassessments of the chemical uh chemicals are going right now.
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So I think we are beginning to get there.
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Um, Congress has uh a number of bills they're looking at uh related to chemical safety also that may uh change a little bit of how that process works.
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But all of those are really good things and um probably needed to happen.
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Um and of course, I would lump chemical safety grass and some of these other areas altogether.
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Um we actually there's still bills out there right now.
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Um I know New York has one, I think, sitting on the governor's desk in this space that um the governor has not decided whether to uh sign our veto yet.
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Um there's some other bills that are still active uh for this legislative session, too, in some other states, but uh definitely something that people are very interested in.
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And and on the reverse side, as I'm sure many of our audience know, industry is very concerned about a patchwork uh approach to chemical safety, which is really where we're at now.
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Um, and some of those bills before Congress look to uh preempt state law as it relates to chemical safety, which um, you know, um there are reasons to do that and the reasons not.
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I'm always a little cautious at preemption.
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Uh, I think you have to you should uh be very careful in using that tool uh at the federal level because it does have repercussions and can have unintended consequences.
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But if we are to the point of consensus, then maybe it is time to look at preemption.
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Yeah.
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There's never gonna be a hundred percent happy rate, right?
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You're just gonna have to get the the will of coalition of the willing that forms at least a workable size to go forward.
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Yeah, and but I think you know, I've seen seen some really good things, and and I do want to recognize our FDA counterparts.
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I think uh under uh Deputy Commissioner DeMontis, we've seen some really great improvements in the organization overall.
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We've seen a much more responsive FDA willing to listen, um, willing to engage actively with stakeholders, and really coming to the table to have uh good discussions about how do we move forward.
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So those are all great things.
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Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that because yo, April of last year, it was not even 120 days into a big administration change, and there was so much lack of information.
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There's a lot of fear, right?
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We were talking about how much more is gonna get cut, but it sounds like the FDA's actually really stepped it up, and I've heard it from other people too, that they're getting more of an open partnership.
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And so it sounds like it wasn't all gloom and doom, was it?
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No, uh I uh you know it's uh interesting for me to say this uh also.
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Um uh I will say that the current administration has been very good for state and local government uh food safety programs.
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They've restored uh$33 million of funding that was cut during the previous administration.
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Um, they're actively engaging on lots of uh in lots of areas.
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They've been supportive of additional funds and areas, including the most recent budget proposal had additional funding related to uh some of the transition of routine domestic manufactured food inspections to states.
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So um we're seeing really good things, uh great partnership uh with uh the FDA as always, but um, I think we also are seeing an FDA that's beginning to um move into a little bit more uh responsive and um and perhaps proactive role than what we've seen in historically.
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Yeah, and again, it I think a people are starting to get a sense of that more broadly.
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Like I I the first few times I heard it, I was shocked because there was so much uh fear and concern going in.
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But that's great.
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I guess we should have known it was just gonna be a different ride.
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I don't know if apropos of nothing, but did you see that clip the other day of uh RFK Jr.
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taking those two black snakes off of a patio while they're literally biting him?
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Like he's a crazy man.
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And I I mean that is a term of affection in this particular environment, and I think we're learning a lot um during this process.
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But you know, I have to say that you know uh uh FDA is uh is performing at a rate uh particularly the foods program is performing better than they have historically.
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So I I think we're pretty excited by that.
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Exciting.
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And also, so we have talked about this at length.
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It actually I sometimes I think it would be interesting if somebody accidentally recorded just our conversations.
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We didn't think anybody was listening.
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Um because they they're long but really like dig and look at the future.
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I think one of the things too is is that tech is now there's so many things that we're we we uh have aspired to do for years.
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I know you and I for sure, but the tech wasn't there and we're in this really golden moment where so much is now possible.
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If you've got a cooperative FDA and you already have people that have been adopting tech from previous generations, there's a moment here, isn't there?
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I think so.
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I think uh we can move beyond the status quo and go try new things.
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Um, you know, I think we can rethink basic sort of things like how do we do inspections?
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Are there ways we can do it better?
00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:49.839
Yeah.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:56.559
I mean, we have not implemented broad technology into inspections beyond largely the replica-keeping portion of it.
00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.119
Can we do more things that assist inspectors out there?
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:02.079
Can we do things that make it uh easier to train quickly?
00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.799
Inspectors, we're just beginning to see that.
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:10.319
I mean, I could give you a real-world example of where we're seeing um AI completely change the world.
00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:15.519
Um, you know, in the area of training, we can design courses much faster today than we could before.
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:26.640
We could get them to full level market, uh, you know, essentially to end users in a much shorter period of time, largely because of the AI uh advancements that have made that really work quickly.
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:28.240
Um, and lots of other areas.
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.720
I mean, graphic design has completely changed, just to give you an example.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:43.519
I can try to design a photo that shows exactly what I want to illustrate for a course in minutes, where that could have we could have spent a day trying to get the right photo if we were out in the field doing it.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:52.400
Yeah, it's so I think there's probably a lot of people that if they were casual and they listened, probably perked up when you said like you're doing these training courses.
00:18:52.720 --> 00:19:00.880
For folks that didn't know that, how can they learn about those and and kind of any other information about ones you've put out there?
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.160
And then how can people interact with them at say the regulatory level?
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.200
So so um, and I will tell you they're all over the space.
00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:10.319
Some of them are truly regulatory in nature, others of them are soft skills.
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:21.279
Uh the most uh when I say soft skills, in other words, you know, not technical necessarily food safety skills, but more uh being uh good at what you do skills and being uh a good communicator and those sorts of things.
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:27.359
So those courses, if you just go to afdo.org, afto.org, uh under training, you'll find them all.
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:34.319
Or can I talk about something else we're doing right here and give you another introduction of something that's getting introduced next week?
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:34.799
Yeah.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:35.039
Yeah.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.200
Oh, something you're gonna roll out at the conference?
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:42.319
I am going to roll something out at the conference that is pretty exciting to us.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:54.799
So I think one of my frustrations, and I suspect many of our users for our viewers are viewers and listeners' frustrations are um websites search are just not particularly helpful.
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:56.640
You often don't get to the right thing.
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:04.960
Part of it is, you know, some of the content is not well indexed, part of it is some of the content is probably hosted elsewhere and not necessarily available in the search mechanism.
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:27.440
And we've gotten to spend a lot of time in the last couple of years using various forms of AI as we're working, and we found how much that can do, but really integrating that sort of technology into the website so that you can really find what you're looking for amongst those thousands of uh actually uh tens of thousands of links and documents and videos and all of the materials uh when you're searching for it.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:34.160
So we're actually integrating an AI chatbot where we respectfully of course of course call him Wiley after uh Dr.
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.680
Wiley is really the the first uh clever.
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:45.759
Yeah, well, and and actually I will also note, and I'm sure with this being our hundred and thirtieth uh anniversary at AFTO, uh Dr.
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:50.880
Wiley was a very early member of Afdo uh and was for a number of years uh Was he really?
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:51.680
There he is.
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:58.319
Uh so because I think because he's he's sort of referred to uh as the father of the FDA, right?
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:16.319
He is, and in addition, even you know, 25, 30 years before that, he was starting to do studies uh really looking at adulteration of food, which really ended up with why we and did uh essentially two major food laws, the uh the um Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act that eventually came, and then the Meat and Poultry Inspection Act.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:33.759
So those two in fact, I think we've got actually a little graphic on that too, because the media, I didn't know this until uh recently, the media had a lot of fun with him when he was doing that study with intentionally doing toxins, and they call them what, the poison gang or poison squad.
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:35.359
It's poison squad, yes.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:36.400
Way more Marvel.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:37.359
Yes, there it is.
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.839
The news media dubbed the men the poison squad.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:51.200
For those that haven't had the opportunity to either read uh the book or the um PBS documentary on it, it is a fascinating discussion of what happened uh during this process.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:22:02.640
And essentially, when he was really looking to research what is the effect of food additives of various sorts uh in our foods, you know, for things like formaldehyde, which I think all of us probably know is not a good thing to eat.
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:17.519
Uh was commonly used as a preservative during the uh that period of time and other things, but he really uh did change how we thought about food safety and and really was the percep uh was among those things that caused us to really uh move forward in federal regulation of food safety.
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:27.839
Again, I don't I you have somebody who can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he largely wrote the 1906 bill that Teddy Roosevelt signed, didn't he?
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.839
He was very involved with it.
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:36.960
And of course, uh, if we had Teddy Roosevelt here to talk, he bought they actually ended up hating each other, which is Did they really?
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:38.079
They did, yep.
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:46.880
Uh yeah, Teddy Roosevelt considered Wiley to be a thorn in his side, and at that period of time, he would have been one of the uh best known people uh uh in the country.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:55.519
His uh poison squad and the papers that he was developing had become very popular uh in the media, and you know, every newspaper featured one when a new one came out.
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.759
He was well very well known across the the country and even to some extent across the world.
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:01.119
Thorn inside.
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:06.720
So to a degree though, is that a statement on a good regulator?
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:10.880
Right, like he he because he had he kept it on the front burner.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:11.680
He did.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:18.480
And you know, and I will also say Roosevelt had a unique experience during his experience um uh during uh the war.
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:31.680
He actually uh had some what he thought was food poisoning from some of the really terrible uh canned meats that were provided to the soldiers, and uh, and he really was concerned about it also, but perhaps from a different perspective.
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:36.160
Um, so uh it was it was very good that he was willing to at least consider it.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.440
And you know, almost during uh his whole time in office, it was an area that uh Roosevelt was interested in.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:42.480
Just he and Dr.
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.440
Wiley didn't always agree on how to move forward.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.880
We've never had a non-conventional, contankerous president since, right?
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.480
That is I did not know that.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.599
You are like presidential history.
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:03.279
We talked about Jimmy Carter last time, but I Teddy Roosevelt, that's so fascinating.
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.279
And uh yes, that PBS documentary is really good that Steve mentioned.
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:12.079
In fact, we'll put a link to it in the comments because if you haven't seen it, it's great.
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.720
Uh yeah, The Poison Squad, American Experience.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:16.720
Yes, uh, it's a great book, too.
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:22.160
I mean, I would also say if you haven't uh read or listened to the book, it's even more, uh it's even better.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.319
And the author is just first rate.
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:27.200
Um, and actually, I think uh I can also give you a link.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:32.319
I believe I have a link on our website to uh a presentation she did talking a little bit about her book.
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.400
And um I'll get that over to you for a while.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:35.920
That would be awesome.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:43.200
Uh in fact, um on that note, sort of a transition to with the conference coming up.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:54.480
So I I will I don't want to take a bunch of your day without letting you actually talk about AFTO and sort of some of the things that people are going to be able to participate then and be excited about and that you're excited about.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.640
And obviously, you just rolled out the big one.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.000
You're gonna introduce this AI.
00:24:58.079 --> 00:24:59.359
Let's not actually lose that thread.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:00.880
I almost shortchanged it.
00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:02.480
Um, when will it be released?
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:03.680
Is it at the conference?
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:09.200
And then is that just gonna be a tool through AFTO site, or how are people gonna be able to play with this?
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:24.079
What I will say, unlike a lot of the chatbots, uh I've been uh quite impressed with this particular tool, is doing a really nice job and it's and like what you would hope for chatbots, it's learning.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.799
Uh, we continue to train it and teach it more and more.
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:41.200
And of course, all of the users, when something doesn't work well, we want to know about that, and it's important to uh to to essentially react to it and say, this was not what I was looking for, or thumbs down it and uh explain why, because it is learning constantly.
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:53.279
We've uh we've been working on it for about four months now, and um, every every day, in fact, I just got a result on something that wasn't working as well as we had hoped yesterday, and it's now fixed and it's uh even better.
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.720
Uh, so those sort of things are really um coming together nicely.
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:08.400
The one thing that I really love is oftentimes um video content, like mini small nonprofits, we host that largely on YouTube, but that doesn't get indexed and was never available in the web search.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:16.960
That's entirely indexed now as part of why at least you can actually go through and it's part of the search that comes back with him when you're asking various topics.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:17.599
Wow.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:18.720
So you're wow.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.039
So I'm gonna ask a super nerd question.
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:27.359
And if you'd prefer not to say fine, what mod do you know what language model like this you create this off of?
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.480
No idea.
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:30.799
Um, no, I honestly don't know.
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.200
Um yeah, but it's got a video engine.
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:34.160
It does.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.200
So it's really it's been a it's pretty powerful ingestion.
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:49.440
So it's uh it it um and it's largely uh the the folks behind this fit uh focus on working in the nonprofit sector, working for organizations like us that have lots and lots of resources, and this is what they specialize in.
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:56.480
So they've gotten really good at ingesting information from multiple sources and making it part of that uh that AI experience.
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.000
So David, this is so exciting.
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:01.759
I can't I'm gonna see it.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:04.559
Is it what session are you unveiling it at at AFDO?
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:07.519
Unveil it Saturday night during the general session.
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:16.720
I I'm hearing uh uh a little bit of uh information that I think um our mascot, who happens to be our wise owl Wiley, and I don't know that that's coming through great.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:17.440
Oh, there he is.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.880
Oh, that's so you've already got the swag, the the mascot, the logo.
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.000
Swag.
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.039
I'm hearing uh our owl might actually make an appearance.
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:26.640
We'll see how that goes.
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:28.319
Oh, like a full size out.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:30.000
I think he might be coming.
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:35.680
Uh I've heard that he's so excited about his new role that he wants to come and talk a little bit about what's gonna be fun.
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.000
This is gonna be really, really, really fun.
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.880
Um, so Saturday, that general session.
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:42.640
If you're an Afdo, be there.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:50.079
Um, and hey, if you're not an Afdo, it's probably if you was spending a lot of money on fights and things, it's probably not too late, right?
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:51.680
You could call last entry.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:54.000
We will have people register on site.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.079
Uh that is just uh that is just normal.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.079
But uh it's gonna be a great conference.
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:01.279
And and I will say Saturday night is something to not miss.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:06.480
Uh I think uh I'll just I'm gonna go into something that I think is an absolute highlight of this year's conference.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:17.920
We're at the 15th anniversary of the Food Safety Modernization Act or FISMA, which is the single biggest thing that has passed in food safety, I would argue, since the original Food Drug and Cosmetics Act of 1906.
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:31.200
Um, we're gonna be talking about that with some of the people that were intimately involved in the passage and implementation of the law, and really talk a little bit about what's gone well, what could have gone better, where where do we still need to continue working?
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.720
And I will tell you that panel is absolutely amazing.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:29:06.640
Uh and a group of rock stars, including some of our longtime friends, such as uh Dean Davis with Western Growers, uh, in the produce world, Joe Reardon, who was with FDA, North Carolina Department of Agriculture, and now is with NASDAQ, uh Brian Walholm, who is with Consumer Reports now, but was working with Rosa Delora as that law was working its way through Congress, who was one of the um chief supporters, uh Kelly Stevens from General Mills, uh really talking about the implementation from an industry level, and then Roberta Wagner, who was the lead for implementation at FDA.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:13.440
And then uh Wow, that's a that is a really heavy lineup, a lot of gravitas there.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.599
It is, and uh, this is kind of part of a series of these FISMET 15 panels.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:27.920
The first one happened a few weeks ago at the Food Safety Summit with a few different participants, but I will tell you that conversation, um, which I expect will be just over an hour, uh, will be fascinating.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:34.319
And there will be some points where people disagree and have different uh and say, No, you're wrong, and it'll be entertaining.
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:36.720
Um, you know, and I think people will enjoy.
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:37.599
Yeah.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.680
I have seen the voting final session at CFP.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:43.839
Yes, this can get very entertaining.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:44.720
It will.
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:49.039
Uh, that group uh knows each other well, and I think it'll be a pretty uh interesting.
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:53.839
So, David in the control room, he's got a video engine that ingests and indexes video.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:59.039
Make a note, find out what his favorite bottle of liquor or wine or whatever it is.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:01.759
We've got lots of hours of content.
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:07.119
I'm with you, but that that's actually not many tools do that.
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:08.400
That's huge.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:17.920
It's the first, and ironically, one of the founders of the company, we didn't realize it until after we actually entered an agreement and spoken at our afto conference in Grand Rapids on AI.
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:20.880
Uh, it was uh one of a dude do you mind saying who it is?
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.920
Because I was at that conference.
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:34.640
But he spoke at the conference and did a break was one of the early folks in this uh kind of talking in the space and had done a lot of work in the food sector, particularly with us and Ift and some others.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:40.799
Um, so yeah, uh he was uh but yeah, he it was a pretty uh it was exciting when I learned that.
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:44.079
But I think you all will find that that is a helpful feature.
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:50.000
But going back a little bit to the conference, um, you know, it great numbers uh as we're seeing.
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:52.480
Um, we're right on par for last year's numbers.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:58.559
I think we'll probably be just a little bit ahead when we get done uh with um the final registration, which is great.
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.039
Great participation from our state and local partners.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.319
FDA has been successful in getting uh good participation.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:10.559
We also have some CDC and folks there uh too, tons of industry participation also.
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:12.079
So I think that's all great.
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:33.279
Um, the retail track, which is probably the bread and butter of the conference, is really um very, very strong, uh, doing a lot of things that yeah, people have come to be used uh used to over time, working on program standards, uh tech, what's coming from tech and technology uh sector, uh what's new in that world.
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:34.960
So those are all great things.
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:56.799
But I probably failed to mention that on Friday, Cameron, you and many other innovators are talking about um technology and AI and data, and really doing that, what is I'm gonna call a highly interactive workshop where we're really um looking at uh you know what could we do with AI going forward and how could we make our world better?
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.240
What does our dream look like?
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:00.799
Yeah, I was so excited about that event.
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:06.960
Uh it's the uh data and AI data and AI and food safety workshop.
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:07.759
And you're right.
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:11.759
What I loved about what Carrie and your team did with that is it is very interactive.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:16.160
And let me make sure I shout out to all of the people participating.
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:20.160
And uh Carrie and Jennifer uh have done a wonderful job.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:29.119
So thank you all for all the work you've put in and trying to wrangle all of us uh crazy tech people getting on planes and and all trying to get this thing.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:30.240
You've done a great job.
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:36.240
But we're going to have uh uh Richard Todd, uh who's the chief data officer for the city of Boulder.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:45.200
And I'm really really looking forward to visiting with him and to hear his uh his opening framing uh remarks that he'll do at the beginning of the session.
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:49.039
Uh uh Barbara Cal oh I'm gonna mispronounce her name.
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:50.799
Barbara Cowelly, I think.
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.480
George Washington University.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.720
I'm sorry, what did I I mispronounced it, didn't I?
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.319
Well check, yeah, very powerful.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:57.759
Okay, well, yes, okay.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:32:59.920
And uh George Washington University.
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.160
Uh and her Jorge Hernandez, uh who's been on this show before, and uh is uh from Wendy's.
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.000
Uh a lot of y'all would be familiar with him.
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:23.920
Brendan Ring from Krim Global, and uh myself, oh Patrick Way for uh he's been on this show before, and I've actually been uh working with him and in brainstorming a bunch of stuff over the past few months and uh really look forward to seeing him.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:24.880
He'll be on the panel.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:40.880
Uh Andrew Kennedy, the chief traceability officer from iFoods DS, which a lot of people are probably familiar with uh to one degree or another, and Hatspot Technologies Christine Randler, the CEO there, and of course myself for Cameron, uh I'll be there as well.
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:54.160
And each of us are I'm sorry, Steve, I can cut this shorter, but if each of us are going to do an AI case study, which is a highly curated marrying AI usage to a real problem in food safety.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:58.480
And uh I'm really excited for all of those.
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.480
But then it's going to be interactive, right?
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:10.239
So there's going to be sessions where all of you all who are participating are going to be able to work in small groups and be able to be cre be an innovator, be creative.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:22.079
What are some ways because everybody has an idea and I will tell you this there are a lot of people in the room that day from the panel that we just talked about who we can move quickly.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:31.519
Uh meaning that you all do have uh uh everything I've done in my whole career in food for twenty-six years now has all come from you all.
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:41.920
Like it just you if you listen to the problem most of the time you've got the solution in there and you just need the technical help to frame it and polish it to make it run from a code perspective.
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:45.280
So there's gonna be people there that can actualize your idea.
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:51.599
So I'm really excited about it and the fact that you all will be able to put your uh own pen to paper and collaborate.
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:57.280
And who knows, you might just come up with the next killer AI product that can solve a problem for the whole community.
00:34:57.440 --> 00:34:57.599
Right.
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:02.559
I I I think a fair way to put that one, Steve, or do I over overemphasize it?
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:11.440
No, I I'm excited to see the uh what uh the results from that session and uh parts of that session will be made available after uh the conference.
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:21.039
Uh the some of the uh portions that are uh more less activity-based, more video based, but we're excited by uh all of the speakers being willing to allow it to be shared.
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:23.199
It's gonna be a really good session.
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:30.000
I know I think every single one of the speakers uh that are participating, uh many of them quite well.
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:45.920
Um this is, you know, if I were gonna be stuck in or sorry, if I were gonna have any once it's stuck, if I'm gonna have the opportunity to spend a a a period of time, even a few weeks, brainstorming with a group of people about what we could do better, this would be the group of people I'd invite.
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:49.119
Yeah, it's I think so excited.
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:54.960
Like it's a lot of people who are doing some great things, and now we can get to hear from you and build more.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.639
Um, and so it's an unfair uh question, Steve.
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:02.000
But like because you look at that, I you're obviously gonna be in this one, right?
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:03.440
Like, I you'll be there for us.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.360
I'm for most of it.
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.119
I have I have another meeting that I have to sneak out of for a period of time.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:11.119
It's your you you're busy.
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:16.000
I was I was just kidding, but I was gonna ask the question if you had limited time.
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:21.519
So I sometimes people say, I'm looking at this agenda, and uh where should I go?
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:29.440
Uh what would you guide someone, especially let's say food safety, to make sure you don't miss when you're figuring out where to sit.
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:33.119
I I I think uh Sunday morning's general session is really good.
00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:38.079
Um, so uh I know Richard Todd uh and I know some of his colleagues very well.
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:45.119
Um that's gonna be an amazing presentation, really thinking uh talking about how to make faster, better decisions for public health.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.840
And um, I think his presentation is gonna be great.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:56.000
Uh later in the morning, we're having a presentation that are a conversation, I would say more than a presentation that I've been trying to orchestrate for a number of years.
00:36:56.159 --> 00:37:00.239
Uh, we're bringing in the CEO of Quick Trip with a K out of Wisconsin.
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:11.360
I know there are two Quick Trips uh in the country, but Quick Trip with a K out of Wisconsin is gonna talk a little bit about food safety collaboration and culture uh in his organization and how they uh do that.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:13.199
Uh fascinating uh CEO.
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:19.920
I had an opportunity to spend some time with him uh last September, and the work that they do at Quick Trip is just really absolutely first rate.
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:22.559
So we're very excited to have him participating.
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:36.079
And then which then continues into a broader discussion on food safety culture, really uh almost uh talking about a little bit more with from an industry perspective of how could the regulatory community do better with food safety culture?
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:46.000
So I think a variety of uh pieces that all come together nicely and really feed of fit a theme that we've been talking about for a number of years in that food safety culture area.
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:57.119
I will say that everything that we're seeing uh on this agenda in the afternoon with the retail track and the produce track and re uh and and the general food track are all great uh areas.
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:03.599
Uh also excited that we've been able to engage a lot of local um participation from the from Ohio, from the Columbus area.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:10.800
We have both the FBI and the uh and the state police participating and helping with some uh pieces uh of the conference.
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:25.280
So one really looking on um uh essentially um how to uh de-escalate situations, and another group really looking at some of those challenging things that we're facing now with uh folks that are uh sovereign citizens and claiming they are not part of the country.
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:25.840
Oh yeah.
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.599
So lots of interesting discussions there.
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:39.199
And we're once again excited that the local folks from Ohio were willing to to be out or participate and do some of these things that um we probably couldn't have done without their their assistance.
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:43.679
That is wow, this is a really leveled up conference.
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:48.480
The F so where did you get the uh where what caused you to think to go after the FBI?
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:50.559
Because I think a lot of people wouldn't think of them first.
00:38:50.639 --> 00:39:02.320
But what I was like perked up about is one of the things I had noticed is there's actually everybody I think started to get way nastier, especially towards regulators as the pandemic set in.
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:06.800
And it never went back to normal, but no one's talking about it.
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:22.800
We had a a lady on uh from uh with uh Montana from the Bureau of Livestock who's actually made it her little sub-specialty to talk about conflict de-escalation in inspection environments, and uh it's just not talked about, is it?
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.000
So but you are now so that's great.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:30.000
The most requested topic we get is de-escalation on anything we do.
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:30.480
Really?
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:34.320
Um right now it is the question that we are getting constantly.
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:38.320
Um, and I and I'm thinking that's you know, there may be some other reasons for that.
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:47.119
Um, of course, you know, we're getting to a different gener a different group of individuals that have very different experiences that are becoming inspectors in our world.
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:59.599
So some of them probably have not had some of these experiences, um, probably left lived in more of a time where you did a lot more virtually and didn't necessarily talk to people in person at the same level uh as we do now.
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:05.119
So I think that probably is part of our impact uh that we're beginning to so some of this becomes more important.
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:08.639
But I would also say people have a sh have a shorter fuse today.
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:12.239
Um it's just it just is not the same as it once was.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:29.599
And you know, I can count the number of times that I had a, you know, uh when I was running the state program in Iowa that I had a really serious situation that we had to that was required uh de-escalation or moving someone out of a uh establishment or facility immediately.
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:32.159
Or, you know, I was lucky I was in the central office.
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:37.119
I had a we had a panic button right outside me if we had an issue and state patrol came running.
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:47.679
Um but you know, uh I will tell you the uh we didn't have to use that very often, but I suspect if we were in uh if I were there today, it probably gets used a little more often than what we did in the past.
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:48.320
Sadly.
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:55.280
Yeah, that's why so it's interesting that you after getting this number one, it's one of the it is actually the most in terms of volume.
00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:06.159
The number one thing we get from we do every six weeks or so we usually do an ask the inspector where we'll take all the questions that have come in from the audience and just put it to somebody.
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:17.039
Or always or at least three out of ten that we end up putting on the program um, and we could have done all ten are about de-escalation or what do I do?
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:18.639
and they'll tell their horror story.
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:20.639
It's a it's a that's a thing.
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:42.960
And the FBI is uh that makes me another big question we got or uh when the ice operations were really in the news is that a lot of inspectors in especially in Minnesota and other states were having issues with people wanting to let them in because in their mind you're part of the same government and you're going to bring an ICE raid in here.
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:48.000
And uh was that just some isolated anecdotes we heard, or did that become a thing too?
00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:51.360
Uh I mean, I think I I I don't think it was just Minnesota.
00:41:51.519 --> 00:42:07.679
I mean, uh the raids were happening across the country and yes, in some areas more than others, but um it was definitely a concern that we heard across the country and not just there, but probably a little more serious in Minnesota because I don't think anyone had a uh uh a more challenging experience than perhaps.
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:15.760
They got the magnifying glass uh on on them and it got the media pickup and yeah, tough tough images.
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.760
So yeah, uh the light I'll lighten up from there.
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.639
Uh the but yeah, the workshop, really looking forward to that.
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:26.719
And by the way, thank you all for for uh thinking of me to participate.
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:34.880
It's um a really exciting opportunity, and I will be uh in Columbus on Thursday night because we start that session at 9 a.m.
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:38.000
and it goes all the way to four or or maybe four thirty.
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:38.719
I'll have to look.
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:40.159
Uh nine to four fifteen.
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:43.119
So um really, really, really good one.
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.079
And um, there are a lot of restaurants around there too, right?
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:51.440
That's that that is something I've always been able to walk to a nice dinner at an AFTO conference.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:43:04.320
Well, and I will say Columbus has a great independent food scene um that just has some really amazing restaurants, and all almost everything was within walking distance of the of the convention center and hotel that we're at.
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:06.400
So I think people will really enjoy that.
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:09.039
Um, lots of different concepts depending on what you're looking for.
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:20.000
Everything from you know, if you want to go hang out at the dive bar all the way to beautiful rooftop bars that are are quite uh high end and restaurants everywhere in between.
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:27.840
So, you know, uh you can find almost anything within walking distance, along with uh lots of great ice cream and desserts and all those fun things that some of us might like.
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:33.920
Other unusual thing is for lunch, uh as most lunches aren't provided, there's literally a food court on the lower level.
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:36.639
So you don't even have to go far to go to lunch.
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:38.880
That is that is wonderful.
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:41.519
And I I'm with you on the dessert thing.
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:49.519
So my wife will still pick on me because often if we sit down at a restaurant, I go to the desserts and it might be the first question I ask the waitress.
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:53.519
Um and they're like, Yo, are you forgetting something?
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:59.519
And usually it's 'cause I've already decided on the steak I want and I I I'm thinking ahead, I'm a planner for what happens.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:02.719
Big the steak is going to be, and dessert helps you determine that.
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:03.760
That's that's right.
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:07.119
You yeah, you have to get the ounces right so that you can eat some dessert.
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:08.639
Exactly right.
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.320
That's bingo, exactly.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:17.760
And if they got really good rolls or bread, then that's gonna calculate too.
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:20.559
I think I think we could definitely go to dinner together, Cameron.
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:22.079
Yes, we let's do it.
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:32.320
Um so I as you look ahead, so you I would say have uh uh accomplished probably more than even you set out to over the last year.
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:33.679
Some things have really moved.
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:38.239
You're launching Wiley and so many training, all the things you've talked about, plus others.
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:43.119
As you look ahead, what is sort of the thing that you've got the most laser focus on?
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.400
Of, you know, I I want to accomplish this above all else.
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:51.119
If if there is something like that, what's the goal for the next year or two that you're now turning to?
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:54.480
Well, I think I think uh we share a little bit of a vision in this.
00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:05.360
I think really looking at how we can use AI in a real perspective and taking it from concept to actuality uh in in our in our collective space, to that inspection food safety world.
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:06.800
Uh we're ready.
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:08.800
Uh the technology has gotten there.
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:12.400
Um there are there are definite ways to do this now.
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.159
We just have to go to the next step and start implementing and making it happen.
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:22.000
Um, so I think that's really an area that we're gonna be pretty focused on uh over the next year.
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.360
Uh I think another area we continue to be focused on is training.
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:30.079
Um, so training is one of the most, you know, we we see a lot of demand for it.
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:32.960
We're uh really looking to take that to the next step.
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:37.599
Um and I will say AI is helping us there in that we can move much faster.
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:40.239
So you're gonna see more stuff coming out quicker.
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:44.480
Um, and then also, you know, just trying to respond to the needs of the community.
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:50.559
Um, I will say the community's needs change fast, and uh being able to respond quickly is important.
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:56.000
Um, you know, uh so we'll see where it goes, but those are kind of the things that I'm thinking a lot about right now.
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:58.079
I think that's probably our general direction.
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.679
Um, and there'll probably be a few uh surprises as we get into the year.
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:07.440
Um, you know, uh the FDA Bridge project is clearly something we're pretty intra uh pretty um involved in.
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:16.079
In fact, I spent half of my day today working on that, which is the concept of transitioning more of the manufactured food domestic inspection work to the states.
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:20.320
Um that is complex to put it simply, but it makes sense.
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.280
It does, and it's way more economical, too, isn't it?
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:26.159
It is way uh the cost is much lower.
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:36.320
Um, there's a uh a recent uh um GAO report that came out about almost uh a year ago now, I guess almost a year and a half ago, um, that talked about the cost uh differences.
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.199
Um it's and frankly, there's even more than that.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:46.000
State uh state inspectors tend to be closer and cheaper, um, and the overall cost is just lower.
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:52.960
And when you say lower, we're talking you know, a difference of you know, thousands of dollars per inspection.
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:55.440
Um, in some cases, uh over 10.
00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:56.320
Wow.
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:58.880
And and also they know their community better, right?
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:01.679
From just an interaction and know the pulse.
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:04.639
Yeah, it often they know their industries.
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:06.960
I mean, industries are somewhat regionally based.
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:14.480
You know, in the Midwest, you tend to know things, you know, corn processing, soybean processing, milling, those sort of things are more common.
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:16.480
So you know those really all cereals, you know.
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:20.559
Think about flour, those sort of industries are what you tend to see, so you know those really well.
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:24.079
In other parts of the country, there are other industries that you know really well.
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:27.599
Um, but maybe you have never see a flour mill uh, for example.
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:42.000
Um, but that's really important because you know that can be hard in in a large organization like FDA, where you see may see a flour mill once in your career or twice in your career, um, you know, walking into it, and you know, you're used to advising people to do wet cleaning.
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:46.079
Uh well, unless you want concrete.
00:47:46.719 --> 00:48:05.360
But uh in fact, we partnered earlier this year with uh uh over the uh the la essentially kind of uh starting about this time last year with the North American Millers Association on a training that really kind of introduces what to look for in uh in milling operations because it is different, and there's not as many of those as there once were.
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:09.039
It used to be, you know, you'd have one in almost every community of some sort.
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:13.760
That isn't the case anymore, and you know that and it's not exactly like everything else you see.
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:18.719
It's kind of a a little bit of a different sort of uh manufactured environment.
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:22.239
So we've done uh some work there that's getting ready to go to the next level.
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:29.519
It's currently in a webinar format that's going to come out later this year in an asynchronous course that uh really integrates some additional features into it.
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:37.440
Uh, but we're excited that with that partnership, and that's a great example of where industry comes to us and says, hey, could we work together on?
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:39.440
And uh, and I think a great result.
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:46.000
I see some of those coming are potentially coming up in the next year also uh in some areas where we're getting a lot of questions.
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.920
Um, and we're also getting a lot of questions from industry saying, Can we do more on this?
00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:53.920
This seems to be an area where people don't necessarily understand it anymore.
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:57.199
And that might also be like much going on.
00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:06.960
What so I was just thinking with the bridge project and that what is the most complex part if you are at the state or a department level?
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:15.119
Uh it seems like they are on board, but what's the thing that's most daunting or most tricky there if if you could even narrow it down to a main thing?
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:18.000
There's probably three things that are complex.
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.880
Um, what information do we need?
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:26.400
It's complex because um there's been a historic trend of that we need everything.
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:27.679
Do we need everything?
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:30.480
Do we still need the information we needed 10 years ago?
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:32.000
Do are we getting the right information?
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:33.519
So I think that's question one.
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:41.760
Question two really becomes on how do we transition the information between us and uh them and back and forth without uh and that's a big issue.
00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:51.280
And frankly, uh hopefully Congress helps us in uh in um passing a uh bill that allows for better information sharing that will make this whole process work much more seamlessly.
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:54.079
Um and uh I uh I'm hopeful.
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:58.480
Um we seem to see some momentum now on that, uh, and hopefully that will happen.
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:00.400
Uh is it in committee right now?
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.800
So it is currently in both the energy uh in the energy and commerce committee on the House side.
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:11.360
Uh there was a uh hearing that I testified at um God, almost uh a month and a little over a month ago.
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:15.599
Uh and um But did you no no moments that went viral?
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:17.599
You didn't have to get spicy with anybody.
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:19.599
You know, it was an interesting hearing.
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:21.920
Four witnesses, 28 bills, three hours.
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:24.000
Oh wow, so is the assembly line.
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:26.960
It was uh it was it was a unique experience.
00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:48.639
I have to say I've never done that before, but I have to uh thank um uh I we probably don't thank them often enough, but our lobbying team that we uh that we um contract with told me when when they said we think we'd like you to when the committee came and said we think we'd like you to do this, um they said, uh we need you here at least three days before.
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:50.400
I did not understand that.
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:51.599
Now I understand that.
00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:58.480
It takes uh the preparation for our congressional hearing is just so that so sorry the rabbit trail, but that's fascinating.
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:02.000
So three days of prep for how long was the testimony?
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:03.679
The hearing was three hours.
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:09.199
Um there were four witnesses, of which you know, two of us probably talked the most.
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:17.679
Um I can't I can't imagine who it might have been that talked the most about someone else talked more than I did.
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:21.920
Well, you know, sometimes somebody knows what they're doing has to cut through.
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:24.320
Uh so that's a that's a rare thing though.
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:26.559
Testifying to Congress is rare air.
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:28.480
What was what does that feel like?
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:30.960
And then what was the three days?
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:34.800
What did you need to have drilled into you for three days to make it work?
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:42.880
Well, first there's 28 bills, of which, you know, there were probably five I was that we had really looked at that we were very familiar with.
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:48.000
So just learning those and and uh working our way through that was a bit of a process.
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:58.800
Uh secondly, um, what you can't see when you're watching this on TV is um there are people there the members are constantly in and out along with people are in and out.
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:04.559
So it's just really distracting environment to maintain your focus while you're doing that is really hard.
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:08.320
And they actually simulated that for me to get me used to it.
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:09.760
Um also Wow.
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:12.000
So you had like uh mock sessions for that.
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:18.000
Yeah, no, uh, the team did a great job, and and and it's a team that works in the food and ag space for lots of clients.
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:20.559
And this is also the same week there was this hearing.
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:29.440
Uh the farm bill was uh was coming up on the house floor, and the um FDA agriculture bill uh appropriations bill was being considered in committee.
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:34.000
So it was a nuts busy week for that particular team, and they still did a great job.
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:34.480
Wow.
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:39.840
And so do you is there some is there a way they tell you to know when you're walking out, nailed it?
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.400
Or like how do you how do you even put it into context because Congress moves so slow?
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:55.599
Um well I think uh one, I think you know, we're fortunate in what we're we're talking about is something that um both uh Republicans and Democrats talked about a lot and seemed to get.
00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:58.320
So that's a good sign, and they were very interested.
00:52:58.400 --> 00:52:59.760
Uh so I think that's good.
00:52:59.920 --> 00:53:06.320
But I I also think um, you know, uh I I I think uh it was an interesting process.
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:07.519
I think we did fine.
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:13.760
Um uh we're hearing, you know, we're continue our conversations with members and staffs about the bill.
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:15.920
They are genuinely interested.
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:24.400
Um, hopefully we'll end up uh proceeding to a markup sometime later this year, uh, which uh once that happens, then that frees up some additional opportunities.
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:25.840
That's really, really exciting.
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:28.159
So you had to get familiar with 28 bills.
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:35.920
Uh I'm gonna bet that you had read more of a lot of those bills than some of the people asking questions on the committee.
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:37.360
I don't know about that.
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:46.639
Uh, but I will say uh that once again the team did a really good job of getting them down to summaries and here's what you need to know, and uh here's where it is, and that sort of thing.
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.760
Um, but that you know, that without that I couldn't have uh done it.
00:53:49.840 --> 00:54:01.199
And I will also say a lot of the folks that were involved with the various bills, I can't tell you how many phone calls, emails, uh, et cetera, I had during text um as I was prepping and saying, hey, do you need to know anything about this bill?
00:54:01.360 --> 00:54:05.599
Um you were carrying all of their hopes, dreams on on your shoulders.
00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:07.760
So it's good that they reached out to you, though.
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:16.239
So there they were, and I will say there was in addition to the information sharing bill that we're very interested in uh at the state and local level, and frankly federal level too.
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:29.679
All of us uh think this is necessary uh necessary and has been in the president's budgets for uh the last two administrations, uh almost I think every budget actually, um, something that everyone's been trying to do uh from a policy perspective.
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:33.440
Um there's a uh date labeling bill that's been talked about.
00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:35.760
You know, that bill probably is driving now.
00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:43.679
Umcept, I think 13 or 14 years ago, really clarifying quality labeling.
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:54.719
So, in other words, um best buy might be a term that truly means quality going forward, and then a food safety date that actually truly means you should not consume after.
00:54:54.880 --> 00:55:06.079
Um, in doing those two things so that we're very consistent across the board, versus there's up to 30 different terms used across the uh industry sectors right now and uh states.
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:12.320
So that is that would be very helpful from a consumer perspective and probably would have a great impact on food waste.
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:14.639
Um, so that's something that I think is great.
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:23.039
Um I should also mention the Harvard Food Policy Project has been very involved with that in addition to IFT and others, but it is something it's a no-brainer.
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:25.119
Um some others like that.
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:32.159
Um, you know, I think there there were a handful of bills that were that have been out there for a while and probably just need to happen.
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:37.280
They eventually they get their postgraduate degree as a bill and then they get passed.
00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:41.199
What's the information sharing bill allow for, though?
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:46.320
I just I just wanted to because I don't think there's a lot of public notice on it.
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:56.400
So uh currently um uh the uh FDA in particular has uh uh their council has determined that there are there's a lot of information they can't readily share with state and local partners.
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:58.400
A great example is during a recall.
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:01.199
I'm gonna use uh Buy Heart recently as an example.
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:15.199
During that recall, um, it took us um uh an additional, I'm gonna say an additional five working days to be able to just get information to our local partners to help ensure that product was off the circuit.
00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:20.480
Even though it was a product that was causing illness in infants, it's the only thing that infants are typically eating.
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:25.679
Uh, you know, if you want to talk about a recall that is extremely important, it's that one.
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:26.480
Yeah.
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:34.320
And you know, and so you know, five days can can can be lives in a in a situation like that.
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:35.679
It really can.
00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:46.719
And so um they're they've interpreted that the they can't share that information unless they go through an extra long process that requires a special determination and that takes days to do.
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:50.159
Well, we just don't think that makes sense any uh going forward.
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:55.519
But it's the same sort of thing with a consumer complaint is made by uh to FDA about a grocery store.
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:59.840
Well, all of our listeners know FDA does not inspect grocery stores.
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:13.840
But when they transit when they try to transfer that commit a complaint to the local or state agency that does the grocery store, they then proceed to redact everything, but this grocery store had something that was dirty in the 90,000 square foot grocery store.
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:14.800
Really?
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:15.920
Not very helpful.
00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:22.800
So I would understand if they were like filtering out maybe uh personal identifying, but they're what do they say?
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:25.119
Why do they say they have their hands cuffed like that?
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:29.679
They did do eight pages of legal reason why they had to do that.
00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:34.480
Um, you know, I will say that was not historically what most of us had seen.
00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:42.559
Um, but you know, um uh I once again I I am an attorney and I recognize this is true, having worked with attorneys for most of my life.
00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:45.039
Um, every attorney has a different opinion.
00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:51.199
Um and I think you know the current group is very risk adverse, which I get when you're in the government.
00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:56.079
It's very easy to be in that position, and that's normally the default in regulatory agencies.
00:57:56.400 --> 00:58:00.559
But um, they've actually chosen, you know, to say things like that.
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:09.039
Another great example is sharing inspectional results with those in uh uh facilities we have concurrent jurisdiction over, like manufactured food facilities.
00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:15.599
Um states uh can share information upward, but FDA cannot share back downward easily.
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:21.679
Or sometimes FDA even asks you to take action on a small facility or a facility because they want immediate action.
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:22.800
They'll ask the states.
00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:38.159
Well, uh, at a recent uh in one example is they ask the state to do this action on this facility, and they proceed to give them as the evidence to take the action on a report that redacts what's out of compliance or what's out of compliance, of course, what a compliance was.
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:43.519
Well, can't do that, um, and we can't move forward without that information.
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.639
That's a little bit like saying you did something wrong, but we're not gonna tell you what.
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:47.840
It's the secret.
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:53.280
That's but that so if that is a great chance of passing, actually, that's great news.
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:54.559
We've been working on it.
00:58:54.639 --> 00:58:59.599
Um, we started working on this almost five years ago now, came to joint language with FDA.
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:03.920
Um, and I I think we are uh, you know, I'm I'm optimistic we're getting there.
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:06.239
It seems like Congress is understanding the need.
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:09.920
I think uh we've got good folks on both sides of the aisle that are interested.
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:15.840
So I'm very hopeful, and and I will not say it's just not us, it's you know, all of the mini-lettered groups.
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:36.159
So it's you know, uh all of the industry folks have been very supportive of it, all of our key partners, you know, FMI, Western Growers, uh International Fresh Produce, uh CBA, you know, and I'm sure I forgot someone, but you know, kind of of the whole group of uh big uh of the industry folks that are involved, but also all of our associations that work in the public health space.
00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:45.360
So AFTO, NIHA, NASDAQ, um, you know, uh ASTO, um, NATO, kind of the whole broad community, uh CFP.
00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:55.440
Uh sorry, I it's uh without the list in front of me, I should be careful, but you know, pretty uh pretty much the whole community has just been nothing but supportive of this particular piece of legislation.
00:59:55.519 --> 00:59:59.920
Uh, both industry and of course consumer groups, I shouldn't forget them, they've also been very supportive.
01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:02.880
And you gotta think that will get members of Congress attention, right?
01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:08.559
Because if you don't have a big uh, you know, organized opposition, I would think it helps.
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:13.760
You yeah, I mean, I I you know I spent a lot of times working, a lot of years working with the state legislature.
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:17.760
Normally, if you went in with something that everyone was okay with, it probably would move forward.
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:19.360
It's a little harder in Congress.
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:25.440
Um, you know, there's only so much capacity, and only so many bills can move in a year, and that makes it challenging.
01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:26.480
But I'm hopeful.
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:29.199
Um, I think uh we we're seeing a lot of good signs.
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:32.719
Uh, we're getting lots of good communication outreach from those involved.
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:36.880
Uh, so I think uh, you know, I feel like we're we're at the best position we've been in yet.
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:40.159
So I'm uh I'm hopeful we'll we'll see something uh happen.
01:00:40.239 --> 01:00:47.199
Um I'm hopeful by the by Christmas maybe we'll uh be able to see that uh signed uh by a president in something.
01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:54.800
I'm not sure if it'll be I I I very much doubt it'll be a standalone bill, but I bet it uh my wage would be it'd be in a larger bill of other things.
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:57.119
But cram it in with other stuff.
01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:04.880
Well, I know we've already kept you the um longer than we said we would, and your phone never stops ringing, and you've got your conference next week.
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:09.760
But let's actually uh I think David, we've got the the shot from their website.
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:14.079
So I really would look forward to seeing everybody in uh Columbus.
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:18.639
Um and if you are able to get there and you hadn't made up your mind yet, go.
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:24.480
It's gonna be a lot of fun and very, very good information there in Columbus, Ohio, the fifth through the ninth.
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:30.880
The fifth is the AI summit, and then the Saturday is the sixth, is like state said don't miss that general session.
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:35.840
And they're gonna be I I'm gonna I just want to be there to see if the house shows up, but you know, is Wiley gonna be there?
01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:41.199
Uh uh I I have heard that he has been uh that Wiley has been secured, so we'll see if he can.
01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:47.920
And we will I would ask you if I ask you a favor, if you could maybe have your team and if you want, we can send him a transcript of our conversation.
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:51.840
There's so many things I feel like that maybe would be worth linking to.
01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:02.239
Um really like thank you for for all you do.
01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:04.800
It's like so much of it is actually invisible.
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:17.679
And uh I've gotten uh a little bitty peek just because there's been so much sort of shared purpose and passion from a technology perspective, but thank you for all you do and the willingness to push the rock up the hill every day.
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.199
Well uh it does feel like that some days, I will say.
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:25.440
But no, I think we're doing good things, and our state and local partners are trying to do really important work.
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:35.039
And of course, uh, you know, and you too, Cameron, what you've done to modernize uh the inspection uh world has been uh, you know, you've led that effort for 25 years.
01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:36.559
So that's huge in our space.
01:02:36.639 --> 01:02:38.480
So I appreciate it.
01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:48.079
I what I'm so excited about is I think uh what's coming uh next is going to be more meaningful than even web-based inspections and permitting.
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:48.639
I really do.
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:50.000
I I I agree.
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:55.039
I think we're to it we're gonna be in a completely new world in the next uh really the next 12 months.
01:02:55.199 --> 01:02:57.760
I think we could uh our world will totally shift.
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:05.440
And as we've already seen, I mean the last 12 months AI has completely changed how we work, and we're just beginning to see it implemented in the government space.
01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:08.800
So yeah, it's very uh uh embryonic there.
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:09.599
Steve, thank you.
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.159
Safe travels uh to Columbus.
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:14.480
I'm really looking forward to to seeing you.
01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:21.920
And uh we may actually see if we actually drop this even a day earlier than we normally do, because uh our AFTO starts on Thursday.
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:24.000
So but looking forward to seeing you.
01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:28.800
It's gonna be a wonderful conference, and uh we will uh we'll have you back again sometime.
01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:34.000
Uh at a minimum, we'll catch up with each other in Denver uh at WAFTO and chat there.
01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:35.920
Yep, sounds awesome.
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:37.679
Looking forward to seeing you next week.
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:42.000
And and uh as I know throughout the summer we tend to run into each other quite a bit in the season.
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:42.800
Yes, we do.
01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:45.199
So I will see you on the trail, I guess, as we should say, my friend.
01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:47.840
Have a good one and safe travels.
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:54.400
And I should mention, I neglected too, please, at AFTO, HS GovTech is who sponsors this this podcast and channel.
01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:55.360
Thank them so much.
01:03:55.519 --> 01:03:56.800
I thank them so much for that.
01:03:57.039 --> 01:03:59.360
Also, uh could I add one thing?
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:05.119
And we're real proud about HS GovTech for their sponsorship of the Afto conference and many of our affiliates.
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:06.559
We really do appreciate that.
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:12.880
And without those sponsorship dollars, we couldn't keep the prices as low as we do to make it possible for our government attendees to come.
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:13.920
Thank you.
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:28.079
And I they I know they all appreciate it, but we really are it's nice to be able to be involved in conferences, they're moving the ball forward, and uh it's uh it's an honor, and uh I I look forward to in many capacities working closely with AFTO for many years to come.
01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:31.440
So but yeah, stop at our booth though, the HS GovTech booth.
01:04:31.519 --> 01:04:40.000
I'll be there because we're doing the AI for a panel and would love to meet any of you, answer questions if you have more questions about uh some of what you're doing with technology.
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:44.159
Please feel free to stop by and talk to uh the team there, and I'll be there as well.
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:45.840
Look forward to meeting a lot of you there.
01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:50.480
For all of us here at the Beyond Data Management Podcast, powered by HS GovTech.
01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:51.599
I'm Cameron Garrison.
01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:53.440
We will see you in a week.