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Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom.
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This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education.
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Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com.
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I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast.
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And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching.
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A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords.
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Only stuff that
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works.
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A little more than two years ago, Dr. Frank Rodriguez brought together a group of colleagues from across the country to discuss an issue he had been encountering in his afterschool programs.
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The impact of screens on children and the behaviors that seem to emerge as a result of excessive screen time.
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After meeting virtually for several months, the group began gathering in person to more deeply examine the issue, identifying specific challenges schools were facing, and exploring what might be done to mitigate some of those behaviors.
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Over time, the work evolved into developing a systematic approach that schools could use to address what we began to see as runaway technology, where technology was driving the conversation rather than serving as a tool to support learning.
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Not long after the idea emerged that a book should be written, one that would do more than simply point out the problem.
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We wanted to identify the issues clearly and more importantly, outline practical systems schools could implement to address them instead of just saying, isn't this terrible?
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We wanted to offer solutions that we knew could work.
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That effort led to the book Digital Captives, Helping Schools strike a balance between humans and hardware.
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Written by Frank Rodriguez, Donna Smith, and myself, gene Taber.
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Today we're gonna talk about that book and we're joined by a friend of the podcast and a respective voice in education, Bart Hoffman, who will guide the conversation
as we explore what schools can actually do to address this growing challenge and the benefits educators may gain from reading and applying the ideas in this book.
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I think you're gonna enjoy this conversation.
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So very excited to have, uh, an old friend Bart Hoffman here today to talk to us about our new book, digital Captives.
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So Bart, uh, so happy and and thankful that you're here to conduct this interview with us.
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Bart: Thank You
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You argue that schools have shifted from producing digital natives to becoming digital captives.
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What does that shift really mean?
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Frank: we started this work thinking about how students were changing over the course of, you know, the years following the pandemic.
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Gina and I are talking and thinking about.
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The start, our start of the start of our work together, back in the early part of the century, in 2004, I think 2005, um, how we, the optimism at that point was about how the technology
was gonna really transform education and make, and the students were gonna grow up in it in a very healthy way, um, and be, and be digital natives in the way that we were digital immigrants
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too.
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what happened
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in actuality from our perspective is that everything shifted so
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fast.
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Everything from, social media to, to now ai, but also just the internet and, and quick cut videos.
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that really shifted how students think and, and how we do as well, and how we interact with each other.
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And at some point it tipped the scales to where they went from being natives to really being.
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Captives to the screens, whether the screens be at home, in the phone, in the form of phones and tablets and TV or the, or at school in the form of tablets and Chromebooks.
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Gene Tavernetti: in addition to, in addition to that, the, the work that Frank does in his rise after school programs, he was able to see, these differences manifest.
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I mean, they were very clear differences, kids not being able to, uh, to pay attention as well.
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Executive function were not where, uh, typical five year olds, 10 year olds were.
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And so it was, uh, it wasn't just something that we had read in a book.
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I mean, Frank was experiencing it every day with his folks.
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Frank: Yeah.
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And
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if I can piggyback on that, actually I'm gonna say that even more than myself, my staff was experiencing it and we were experiencing it from like four year olds through 22 year olds.
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Because, you know, we, we employ a lot of 18, 19, 20, 22
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year
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olds,
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uh, in our afterschool programs, tutoring programs, summer programs, et cetera.
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And we were seeing that, that they were acting differently in terms of like communication, how they, how they wrote, but also even things
like eye contact or how we conducted interviews, you know, shifting to zoom how many would show up in their pajamas on the interviews.
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So there was definitely a shift there, but we also noticed it in the programs with like four and five year olds.
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Like Gene was saying, that we're having a difficult time.
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Assimilating to what the school structures were like, partly 'cause they missed preschool, but also partly because they were coming in, it seemed to us at the time, wired a little bit differently.
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So we were having those issues with four, four, and five and six year olds who were like running outta
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classrooms
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in ways we hadn't seen before.
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But also we had like seven and 80 year olds cutting themselves, doing self-harm threats.
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Uh, kids that, you know, seventh and eighth grade talk about depression in ways that they hadn't.
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So
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we know that
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something
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shifted at, initially, we attributed it to the pandemic.
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This is 2022 we're talking about.
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As we
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got further from that and we got more into post pandemic life, we saw that those things weren't subsiding and that there were some other things tied to it as well that were going on.
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Not just academically, but also communication wise and social emotionally.
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So I think that, um.
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That we saw that something had tipped in the kids and the pandemic was a huge tipping point.
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As we got further into the research, we found that really it started prior to
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that.
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Bart: Could you talk a little bit more about when you realized that technology was moving from augmenting instruction to replacing it?
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Frank: I mean, we've been working in schools for together for 20, going on 22
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years.
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when,
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when schools first started bringing technology, I mean, I was a teacher in the 1990s and she was a
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teacher in
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the 1980s
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and we had, you know, like one laptop or one, one, uh, one
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desktop
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and you played
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Oregon Trail
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on it or whatever.
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Uh, you use it for word processing.
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In
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the early two thousands, we started seeing, you know, three or four or five
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imax
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uh, and we talk about this in the book, the evolution of that, how those then got replaced by
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laptop.
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And then the Chromebook card came in
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as broadband expanded, at some point in about
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2014. I think that's a
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hinge point for us in our book and other books about this as well.
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In the work by Jonathan Hyde and Johann Hari, about 2014, there was some sort of tipping point where like all of a sudden all the hardware was in place and what happened right at that point?
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If you think back to it historically, and we talk about this I think in chapter one, that No Child Left Behind went away at the end of 2015.
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Um,
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and what came in to replace it, um, essa, every Student Succeeds Act was a lot more, you know, like personally tailored instruction, less accountability on, on assessments.
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Not
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that.
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You know,
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drug
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coding accountability is great either.
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But once that
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shift
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happened,
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through the
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E-Rate, um, funding happened where funding exploded to where every district could have broadband and be able to have 30 Chromebooks on at the same time in every
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classroom.
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Once those things happened, there was like just this surge of programs that came into classrooms.
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And so I think the tipping point was probably 20 16, 20 17.
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We didn't realize that at the
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time, I think
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we realized that after the fact that wait a minute, what's happening here?
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And so we shifted in our own programs.
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We've shifted away from that into like more just interacting with each other type of work because we've seen the shift happen in the school day, in the afterschool programs and as a result of COVID.
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So I think all of those things together really kind of brought it
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together.
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Gene Tavernetti: And then I think for me, as I was working with, with schools, during COVID, I mean basically I thought I was retired on, you know, March 13th, 2000, and when,
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uh.
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The interest from the districts were, okay, can you coach us in how to do this distance
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learning how, how to do, how to do this, this virtual learning.
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And so, the schools got so wrapped up in that, how do we, how do we continue to provide services
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to kids,
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even though they knew they weren't doing a good job, but
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because
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of the things that, Frank had talked about.
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I mean, there were some schools that would just check out the Chromebooks.
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So the kids had, uh, they were available for lessons, and they did the best they could during that process.
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But when they came back, the teachers didn't give
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it
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up.
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The
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teachers, it was almost like they were doing the same type of virtual lessons, but in person with
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the kids.
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And so they are the ones that weren't giving up The laptops and the Chromebooks when we, when we came back.
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so even though stuff was happening before the pandemic, that distance learning, that
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whole,
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way to look at, that distance learning really made an impact on, on moving forward.
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So
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that
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really.
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that really
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showed me the captivity part.
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They were, they were captive at that point.
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Bart: So in a sense, the pandemic didn't create the problem, it accelerated it.
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What became normalized that should have remained temporary?
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Frank: I mean,
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I think
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education being transactional.
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We talk about this as well
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in the book,
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how, to me,
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uh, to bar to, to jean, to you, um, who are lifelong educators.
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education is
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transformational.
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And at that point
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out of necessity, I mean, we understand we were working in schools.
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We were all working in schools at the time on March 13th,
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like,
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like Jean mentioned, um, it became transactional.
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We had to have some sense of normalcy for
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the kiddos.
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And so
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we transitioned into,
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um, into the Zoom learning and to, you know, Google meets learning.
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Some of that never went away.
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We, um, walk into classrooms now.
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I think what differentiates our book, uh, from others that are really, that are really well written, but what differentiates us is that we're actually in classrooms.
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We were in classrooms together yesterday.
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Um, we were in 22 classrooms yesterday.
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I sat and planned lessons with teachers on Monday.
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Gene tomorrow is gonna go back and observe classrooms, uh, at a high school.
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And what we notice is there is such a plethora of material.
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There
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are so many companies that are vying for that digital dollar.
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You know, that it overwhelms teachers' decision making.
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And I
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think what's happened is that it's become like almost, too much riches.
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And I think that's what instead of, instead of like really thinking about what am I trying to achieve with this lesson,
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um, it's
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become more like, what of all these offerings that I can have digitally can the kids partake in?
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And I think that is what should have gone away that didn't go
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away.
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Bart: So based on all your observations, what most concerns you post pandemic?
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Gene Tavernetti: I think it goes back to things that we were doing 20 years ago.
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Just, you know, how do we present lessons?
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Well, and the way we always talked about, uh, instruction is in
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a well-designed, a well-designed lesson, which includes those transformational
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elements that, that
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Frank was talking about.
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So there is the teacher is leading.
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Students in conversation, in structured conversation, in lots of checking for understanding, in lots of, uh, making sure that the, the kids are paying
attention, which, which wasn't happening again, uh, during, during the pandemic, and which just was just assumed when you had the Chromebook out.
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you know, going back to some foundational things that, that, the research that we're, that we're looking at, I mean, it started in the fifties, sixties, that nothing's been disputed,
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but,
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uh, in this ageist society, there's just no, there is no, uh, institutional memory
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for stuff,
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you know, every, every 15 years.
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It seems like we're starting brand new,
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brand
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new.
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The things that we started out doing when we were working together, talking about, uh,
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using, uh, mini whiteboards, you know, to check for understanding.
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It's like we go back again.
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And never heard of it.
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Oh.
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Oh, really?
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Where did these come
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from?
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And so, uh, I, I, I think, you know, a lot of what we talk about in the book is, is, has been foundational since the eighties.
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Frank: I think, if I can piggyback on that, I think obviously those are all like classroom based concerns and a hundred percent I agree with 'em.
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I was telling, uh, Jean yesterday about a post that I came across, um, recently, and it said, it was a post-it
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that I wrote in 2015
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and I found it in a closet
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somewhere.
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And
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it said in 2000, and I wrote this in 2015, in 2005, we were working
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with teachers on using whiteboards
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to check for
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understanding.
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In 2015,
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we're working with
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teachers on using whiteboards to check
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for understanding.
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And the question is, in 2025, we'll be using whiteboards.
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And the answer was, yeah, that's what we were working on last
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year.
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You know,
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uh, so it's, it's like gene's talking about, it's like the stuff just goes away.
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In the book, we talk about, um, two really well-known metaphors in education.
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One is a Rip Van
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Winkle, you
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know, going to sleep and waking up a hundred years later.
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And he wakes up and he recognizes nothing.
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He looks around, he sees airports and he sees, you know, cars and everything.
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He's got no idea what anything is until he walks into a
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school and then
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he feels like, oh, I recognize this, this is a school.
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Right?
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So that's one we talk about, but we also talk about the pendulum.
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And the pendulum is actually even more well known in these, just these dramatic swings in practice.
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now we're seeing some backlash, I think.
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And just in the last three days there's been a, an article in the New York Times, About, um, you know, iPads in kindergarten and parents starting to rebel against that.
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That was yesterday,
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the, the 10th.
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Uh, on Friday.
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On Monday there was an article in education, uh, next, and it talked about, um, it, it was, uh, called logged in, tuned Out regarding middle school and high school students.
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They're on their Chromebooks.
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They tune out and we see that in practice when we're in the classrooms like we were yesterday.
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And there was another article by the, the gentleman who wrote a Digital Delusion, which is kind of a
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companion,
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not a companion, but a complimentary book to ours.
00:14:33.971 --> 00:14:44.670
And he pat some data about how as schools locked in to more and more digital, the nap scores kind of just hit a plateau and then have, have,
00:14:44.670 --> 00:14:47.010
uh, fallen over the last, over the last 10 years.
00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:48.840
So that's all instructionally.
00:14:49.830 --> 00:14:49.920
And
00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:55.170
so what we're seeing now is this pendulum possibly swinging back the other way towards, uh.
00:14:55.230 --> 00:14:55.290
Yeah,
00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:57.060
like do away with
00:14:57.060 --> 00:14:57.480
the screens.
00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:58.470
Well, you can't do that.
00:14:58.470 --> 00:15:04.440
You know, kids need to be able to interact with technology in a healthy way and which is what we talked about, just having balance.
00:15:04.801 --> 00:15:06.931
but I wanna go back to what Jim was talking about in your
00:15:06.931 --> 00:15:08.701
question about what most scares you.
00:15:09.331 --> 00:15:09.511
And I'll
00:15:09.511 --> 00:15:13.051
tell you what most scares me is, is broader, actually the
00:15:13.051 --> 00:15:13.741
schools,
00:15:14.221 --> 00:15:16.951
um, Johann Hari and still focus talks about this.
00:15:16.951 --> 00:15:22.291
Jonathan Hyde talks about an actions generation, but I think to me, the ones that even hit it more on the head are Nicholas Carr,
00:15:22.741 --> 00:15:22.981
like
00:15:22.981 --> 00:15:31.231
in Super Bloom and, um, Timothy Wu and, in, uh, attention Merchants, and even going back to Neil Postman, uh, in the 1980s,
00:15:31.831 --> 00:15:32.191
um,
00:15:32.221 --> 00:15:36.871
about how if adult attention spans and ability to
00:15:36.871 --> 00:15:38.791
focus and communicate well.
00:15:39.376 --> 00:15:40.906
And have multiple perspectives.
00:15:40.936 --> 00:15:41.926
If those are going
00:15:41.926 --> 00:15:44.050
downhill, then what happens to the next
00:15:44.050 --> 00:15:44.650
generation?
00:15:45.130 --> 00:15:45.340
You know?
00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:58.060
And we talk about that in the book, like a second grader or a third grader who's being acclimated to more and more intensification as far as what will get their attention more and more gamification.
00:15:58.617 --> 00:15:58.887
What
00:15:58.887 --> 00:16:03.957
will they need in the fourth grade when the fourth, they need more because a dopamine rush just won't be the same, right?
00:16:04.167 --> 00:16:06.957
So you keep on accelerating and augmenting that.
00:16:07.857 --> 00:16:10.557
What happens when those kids become, you know, voting age?
00:16:10.797 --> 00:16:13.497
And what we're getting is very disposable.
00:16:13.497 --> 00:16:13.977
Attention
00:16:13.977 --> 00:16:14.757
spans, I think
00:16:14.757 --> 00:16:15.897
is how I would refer to it.
00:16:16.377 --> 00:16:25.047
And I think that's what scares me the most is how do we tackle the huge issues we have, not just in the country, but in the world when we have.
00:16:25.617 --> 00:16:27.627
A citizenry in 20 years
00:16:27.987 --> 00:16:30.537
who have attention spans of 1920 seconds, which
00:16:30.537 --> 00:16:31.497
is what the research shows.
00:16:31.497 --> 00:16:34.077
Most recently, they can, you know, college students in a,
00:16:34.407 --> 00:16:34.587
I think
00:16:34.587 --> 00:16:38.237
it was a 2023 study, they have attention spans of about 20 seconds.
00:16:39.027 --> 00:16:40.977
People our age are about two and a half
00:16:40.977 --> 00:16:43.317
minutes, but we grew up analog, Right?
00:16:43.317 --> 00:16:45.837
What happens when today's second grader
00:16:46.017 --> 00:16:46.827
is in college?
00:16:46.827 --> 00:16:48.117
What will the attention span be then?
00:16:48.117 --> 00:16:48.267
And
00:16:48.267 --> 00:16:48.987
when they're running the
00:16:48.987 --> 00:16:49.407
country?
00:16:49.767 --> 00:16:49.917
So
00:16:49.917 --> 00:16:52.077
I think that's what scares me even more globally than
00:16:52.077 --> 00:16:53.167
what's going on in the classrooms.
00:16:53.907 --> 00:16:56.127
Gene Tavernetti: And And I think something that also
00:16:56.127 --> 00:16:59.907
is scary is talking about the, um, the different timeframes.
00:16:59.907 --> 00:17:00.837
10 years, 15
00:17:00.837 --> 00:17:01.287
years,
00:17:01.707 --> 00:17:01.947
you know?
00:17:01.947 --> 00:17:09.747
So now we have, uh, teachers, teachers and administrators who since this is so normal, they don't see any dangers.
00:17:10.842 --> 00:17:12.792
You know, they have to be, they have to be pointed out.
00:17:12.972 --> 00:17:19.302
But once they're pointed out, it's very, it's very clear, you know, that you walk into a classroom and all the laptops are up.
00:17:19.662 --> 00:17:27.042
You know, we know the teacher can't see, you know, they're, oh sure there's a monitoring program, but it's just not, it's just not the same.
00:17:27.372 --> 00:17:39.222
And so, so much has been normalized and, and it's very difficult, you know, we'll do a staff development, we'll do a training for administrators, and we have to tell 'em, shut your laptops, you know, get off your phone.
00:17:39.732 --> 00:17:40.122
And that's
00:17:40.122 --> 00:17:40.752
what, that's the,
00:17:40.842 --> 00:17:43.662
what we're talking about is, is that issue with kids.
00:17:43.662 --> 00:17:55.469
So, so it is, uh, bigger than schools, like you say, it's, it's, adults really have to really have to follow that lead and first of all, acknowledge that they're there as well.
00:17:55.544 --> 00:17:55.604
Yeah.
00:17:56.294 --> 00:17:57.224
And that it's not okay.
00:17:57.224 --> 00:17:58.544
We want things to be okay.
00:17:58.544 --> 00:17:59.684
It's not okay.
00:18:00.104 --> 00:18:07.122
Uh, but, but we're also competing with, technology companies that are, you know, funded by billionaires and,
00:18:07.212 --> 00:18:09.162
and it's just the promises that
00:18:09.162 --> 00:18:09.432
they,
00:18:09.432 --> 00:18:09.672
that
00:18:09.672 --> 00:18:10.242
they make,
00:18:10.692 --> 00:18:11.112
uh,
00:18:11.112 --> 00:18:11.322
they're
00:18:11.322 --> 00:18:12.102
too seductive.
00:18:13.092 --> 00:18:15.852
Frank: Tim w talks about this in attention merchants, how things that have become
00:18:15.852 --> 00:18:16.362
normalized,
00:18:16.362 --> 00:18:16.482
that
00:18:16.482 --> 00:18:16.992
were not
00:18:16.992 --> 00:18:17.232
like
00:18:17.562 --> 00:18:18.012
having
00:18:18.012 --> 00:18:18.132
a
00:18:18.132 --> 00:18:20.112
phone at the dinner table that just was not
00:18:20.322 --> 00:18:20.472
the
00:18:20.472 --> 00:18:20.832
norm
00:18:20.832 --> 00:18:21.192
before.
00:18:21.192 --> 00:18:21.492
Right.
00:18:21.882 --> 00:18:22.302
Or, you
00:18:22.302 --> 00:18:22.992
know, back in the,
00:18:23.022 --> 00:18:24.162
maybe early
00:18:24.192 --> 00:18:26.802
2010s, if the phone rang at
00:18:26.802 --> 00:18:27.562
church,
00:18:28.752 --> 00:18:30.522
you know, the priest might make a joke about it.
00:18:30.612 --> 00:18:31.542
Oh, God's calling.
00:18:31.542 --> 00:18:33.222
You know, now it's like something
00:18:33.222 --> 00:18:33.912
you expect
00:18:33.912 --> 00:18:34.002
the
00:18:34.002 --> 00:18:34.302
phones
00:18:34.302 --> 00:18:34.422
to
00:18:34.422 --> 00:18:34.782
ring in
00:18:34.782 --> 00:18:35.772
church and it's,
00:18:35.772 --> 00:18:35.982
and
00:18:35.982 --> 00:18:36.912
there shouldn't be,
00:18:37.392 --> 00:18:38.322
but it's become like,
00:18:38.322 --> 00:18:38.532
just
00:18:38.532 --> 00:18:39.852
normalized, like, like Chino was
00:18:39.852 --> 00:18:40.182
talking
00:18:40.182 --> 00:18:40.362
about.
00:18:40.362 --> 00:18:40.542
So I
00:18:40.542 --> 00:18:40.902
think
00:18:41.592 --> 00:18:41.862
in,
00:18:41.862 --> 00:18:43.272
uh, in chapter four
00:18:43.272 --> 00:18:43.392
we
00:18:43.392 --> 00:18:43.692
talk
00:18:43.692 --> 00:18:44.022
about,
00:18:44.052 --> 00:18:45.544
um, creating a
00:18:45.544 --> 00:18:47.824
a filter in classrooms for
00:18:47.824 --> 00:18:48.334
friction
00:18:48.339 --> 00:18:48.449
just
00:18:48.514 --> 00:18:48.574
to
00:18:48.574 --> 00:18:50.284
slow down and to be
00:18:50.284 --> 00:18:51.034
more thoughtful
00:18:51.034 --> 00:18:51.214
about
00:18:51.214 --> 00:18:51.484
what
00:18:51.484 --> 00:18:51.544
we
00:18:51.544 --> 00:18:51.694
bring
00:18:51.694 --> 00:18:52.504
into classrooms.
00:18:52.894 --> 00:18:53.014
When
00:18:53.014 --> 00:18:53.134
you're
00:18:53.134 --> 00:18:53.404
thinking
00:18:53.404 --> 00:18:53.584
about
00:18:53.584 --> 00:18:54.664
a textbook adoption,
00:18:54.732 --> 00:18:56.481
it takes about a year and a half, right?
00:18:56.481 --> 00:18:57.951
To, to adopt a textbook.
00:18:57.951 --> 00:19:01.011
You have to put it out to all the different stakeholders.
00:19:01.011 --> 00:19:01.731
You have public
00:19:01.731 --> 00:19:04.521
viewings of it, you know, do a seance
00:19:04.521 --> 00:19:05.001
over it.
00:19:05.391 --> 00:19:06.561
And to finally
00:19:06.561 --> 00:19:07.131
adopt
00:19:07.161 --> 00:19:07.311
a
00:19:07.311 --> 00:19:08.121
curriculum.
00:19:08.916 --> 00:19:09.396
Or
00:19:09.396 --> 00:19:13.476
I can just go online and download an app and have it in front of kids, you know, in a heartbeat.
00:19:13.476 --> 00:19:14.346
And, and there's ways
00:19:14.346 --> 00:19:14.736
to work
00:19:14.736 --> 00:19:15.096
around
00:19:15.096 --> 00:19:15.786
district,
00:19:16.296 --> 00:19:16.596
you know,
00:19:16.596 --> 00:19:17.406
district, uh,
00:19:17.436 --> 00:19:18.336
filters and such.
00:19:18.336 --> 00:19:18.666
So
00:19:18.939 --> 00:19:19.873
we talk about that,
00:19:19.873 --> 00:19:20.816
in chapter four
00:19:20.816 --> 00:19:21.146
of the book.
00:19:21.146 --> 00:19:21.956
We also talk about
00:19:22.256 --> 00:19:22.526
how
00:19:22.526 --> 00:19:23.486
this happened
00:19:23.696 --> 00:19:25.916
in classrooms, in schools within
00:19:25.916 --> 00:19:26.036
a
00:19:26.036 --> 00:19:26.846
broader digital
00:19:26.846 --> 00:19:27.356
immersion.
00:19:27.626 --> 00:19:27.776
It
00:19:27.776 --> 00:19:29.126
didn't happen in
00:19:29.126 --> 00:19:29.906
isolation.
00:19:30.146 --> 00:19:30.296
So
00:19:30.296 --> 00:19:30.536
I think
00:19:30.536 --> 00:19:30.806
part
00:19:30.806 --> 00:19:31.796
of what happened is because
00:19:31.796 --> 00:19:32.666
we were all
00:19:32.966 --> 00:19:33.386
learning
00:19:33.386 --> 00:19:35.336
how to to shop
00:19:35.336 --> 00:19:36.596
and be entertained
00:19:36.596 --> 00:19:39.866
and book our travel and use Google
00:19:39.866 --> 00:19:40.256
Maps
00:19:40.256 --> 00:19:40.766
and such,
00:19:41.396 --> 00:19:42.296
we didn't notice the
00:19:42.326 --> 00:19:42.536
same thing
00:19:42.536 --> 00:19:42.656
was
00:19:42.656 --> 00:19:43.046
going on
00:19:43.046 --> 00:19:43.796
in schools.
00:19:44.006 --> 00:19:44.576
And that's partly
00:19:44.576 --> 00:19:44.726
why
00:19:44.726 --> 00:19:45.296
it snuck up
00:19:45.296 --> 00:19:45.626
on us, I
00:19:45.626 --> 00:19:45.896
think.
00:19:45.896 --> 00:19:46.016
And
00:19:46.016 --> 00:19:46.586
it wasn't,
00:19:47.396 --> 00:19:47.846
uh, I think
00:19:47.846 --> 00:19:48.866
maybe it was Johann Hari
00:19:48.866 --> 00:19:48.926
who
00:19:48.926 --> 00:19:49.226
talks
00:19:49.226 --> 00:19:50.996
about it, um, in stolen focus.
00:19:50.996 --> 00:19:51.326
That,
00:19:51.604 --> 00:19:51.814
what
00:19:51.814 --> 00:19:52.474
COVID did.
00:19:52.474 --> 00:19:52.624
It's
00:19:52.624 --> 00:19:53.674
almost like that frog
00:19:53.674 --> 00:19:53.914
that's
00:19:53.914 --> 00:19:54.694
boiling in the,
00:19:54.694 --> 00:19:54.814
you
00:19:54.814 --> 00:19:55.024
know, in
00:19:55.024 --> 00:19:55.504
the water.
00:19:55.684 --> 00:19:56.494
And it's turning up
00:19:56.494 --> 00:19:57.424
really slowly
00:19:58.084 --> 00:19:58.324
and it
00:19:58.324 --> 00:19:58.594
doesn't
00:19:58.594 --> 00:20:00.446
realize What's happening
00:20:00.446 --> 00:20:00.776
to it.
00:20:01.196 --> 00:20:01.526
What
00:20:01.526 --> 00:20:01.916
COVID
00:20:01.916 --> 00:20:02.786
did was it turned
00:20:02.786 --> 00:20:02.876
the
00:20:02.876 --> 00:20:03.176
heat
00:20:03.176 --> 00:20:03.476
up really
00:20:03.476 --> 00:20:05.756
fast so that all of a sudden those of us that were able
00:20:05.756 --> 00:20:07.706
to step out of it afterwards realized,
00:20:07.706 --> 00:20:09.146
Hey, something's happened
00:20:09.146 --> 00:20:09.236
here.
00:20:09.236 --> 00:20:09.416
That
00:20:09.416 --> 00:20:10.166
isn't good.
00:20:10.426 --> 00:20:10.576
and
00:20:10.576 --> 00:20:10.816
I think
00:20:10.816 --> 00:20:11.026
that's
00:20:11.026 --> 00:20:11.296
what's,
00:20:11.296 --> 00:20:12.526
you know, what's led us on this path.
00:20:12.526 --> 00:20:13.276
We started talking about
00:20:13.276 --> 00:20:13.396
this
00:20:13.396 --> 00:20:14.086
three years ago.
00:20:14.566 --> 00:20:14.956
Uh, and I'm
00:20:14.956 --> 00:20:15.346
glad to,
00:20:15.526 --> 00:20:15.676
to
00:20:15.676 --> 00:20:15.856
see
00:20:15.856 --> 00:20:16.126
that there's
00:20:16.126 --> 00:20:17.866
more, I think voices
00:20:17.866 --> 00:20:18.046
out
00:20:18.046 --> 00:20:19.306
there now saying the same thing.
00:20:20.116 --> 00:20:26.296
Bart: I also hear from teachers who report declines in working memory, sustained attention and task persistence.
00:20:26.866 --> 00:20:29.776
What does the research say about what's happening cognitively?
00:20:30.641 --> 00:20:30.971
Gene Tavernetti: Well,
00:20:30.971 --> 00:20:32.891
in digital delusions, uh,
00:20:33.851 --> 00:20:37.301
uh, there's a lot of data that that just shows
00:20:37.301 --> 00:20:38.201
declining.
00:20:38.741 --> 00:20:40.301
Declining cognitively.
00:20:40.301 --> 00:20:45.341
I mean, he's pretty, he's pretty bold in how he, how he says that he doesn't talk about a, a learning
00:20:45.341 --> 00:20:46.391
loss, but
00:20:46.391 --> 00:20:48.851
he just, you know, he's got data that, that
00:20:48.851 --> 00:20:49.391
show
00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:55.450
where the, you know, this is the first generation that, that is not doing as well as the prior generation, or
00:20:55.450 --> 00:20:55.540
at
00:20:55.540 --> 00:20:55.900
least
00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:56.050
as
00:20:56.050 --> 00:20:56.380
well.
00:20:57.010 --> 00:20:57.430
so
00:20:57.430 --> 00:20:57.640
so
00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.580
there's evidence, there's evidence out there, and it's, it's
00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:00.850
pretty
00:21:00.850 --> 00:21:01.630
indisputable.
00:21:02.207 --> 00:21:02.605
Frank: Uh, and I
00:21:02.605 --> 00:21:03.175
think, I
00:21:03.175 --> 00:21:03.445
think
00:21:03.445 --> 00:21:03.775
he,
00:21:03.775 --> 00:21:05.725
um, he talked about that
00:21:05.725 --> 00:21:06.865
this generation is
00:21:06.865 --> 00:21:06.955
the
00:21:06.955 --> 00:21:07.705
first one that is
00:21:07.705 --> 00:21:08.725
like the,
00:21:08.725 --> 00:21:08.905
the
00:21:09.055 --> 00:21:09.175
IQ
00:21:09.865 --> 00:21:13.945
is actually lower than the parents' generation by about six points in the
00:21:13.945 --> 00:21:15.235
last 120 years.
00:21:15.595 --> 00:21:16.645
More recently, just
00:21:16.645 --> 00:21:17.335
on, on Monday.
00:21:17.395 --> 00:21:19.315
I think he came out with that article that showed where
00:21:19.315 --> 00:21:19.405
the
00:21:19.405 --> 00:21:20.125
NA scores have
00:21:20.125 --> 00:21:20.575
dropped
00:21:20.965 --> 00:21:21.625
over time.
00:21:21.925 --> 00:21:22.795
But I think, so
00:21:22.795 --> 00:21:23.005
that's
00:21:23.005 --> 00:21:25.105
cognitively, but I think what we're seeing is even
00:21:25.105 --> 00:21:25.225
at
00:21:25.225 --> 00:21:26.185
the precognitive
00:21:26.185 --> 00:21:27.355
level, even
00:21:27.355 --> 00:21:29.725
things like, like holding
00:21:29.785 --> 00:21:30.895
information and working
00:21:30.895 --> 00:21:31.345
memory.
00:21:31.915 --> 00:21:37.525
And being able to carry it from that center to that center that has dropped off, you know, or
00:21:37.525 --> 00:21:39.565
things like, uh, being able to
00:21:39.565 --> 00:21:44.605
lock in to what's on the board and then bringing that information down and copying
00:21:44.605 --> 00:21:44.665
it
00:21:44.755 --> 00:21:44.845
and
00:21:44.845 --> 00:21:45.385
writing down
00:21:45.385 --> 00:21:45.745
here
00:21:46.255 --> 00:21:46.465
and
00:21:46.465 --> 00:21:47.635
then looking back up again.
00:21:47.785 --> 00:21:51.025
That has dropped handwriting, you know, because of,
00:21:51.235 --> 00:21:51.655
we run
00:21:51.655 --> 00:21:52.525
school programs,
00:21:52.855 --> 00:21:53.035
we
00:21:53.035 --> 00:21:53.335
have,
00:21:53.335 --> 00:21:53.605
you know,
00:21:53.785 --> 00:21:54.355
students do
00:21:54.355 --> 00:21:54.625
things
00:21:54.625 --> 00:21:54.715
and
00:21:54.715 --> 00:21:55.015
so we have
00:21:55.045 --> 00:21:55.915
instant reports
00:21:56.305 --> 00:21:58.045
that kiddos write And
00:21:58.045 --> 00:21:58.795
we actually have really
00:21:58.795 --> 00:21:59.305
good data.
00:21:59.305 --> 00:21:59.545
Going
00:21:59.545 --> 00:22:00.175
back and comparing
00:22:00.175 --> 00:22:00.925
handwriting
00:22:01.435 --> 00:22:02.635
from 2014
00:22:02.635 --> 00:22:03.205
with handwriting
00:22:03.205 --> 00:22:03.325
from
00:22:03.325 --> 00:22:06.085
2024 is dramatically different.
00:22:06.295 --> 00:22:07.615
Handwriting of a second
00:22:07.615 --> 00:22:08.035
grader
00:22:08.965 --> 00:22:09.085
in
00:22:09.085 --> 00:22:09.730
2014
00:22:10.255 --> 00:22:10.855
is about
00:22:10.855 --> 00:22:11.545
equivalent with
00:22:11.545 --> 00:22:11.935
handwriting
00:22:11.935 --> 00:22:12.055
from
00:22:12.055 --> 00:22:12.145
a
00:22:12.145 --> 00:22:12.445
fourth
00:22:12.445 --> 00:22:13.045
grader now.
00:22:13.525 --> 00:22:14.395
So there, that's fine.
00:22:14.395 --> 00:22:16.315
Motor skills that are being lost as well.
00:22:16.315 --> 00:22:16.825
So it is,
00:22:17.125 --> 00:22:17.785
there's those things you
00:22:17.785 --> 00:22:18.805
can see that you can
00:22:18.805 --> 00:22:19.375
measure.
00:22:19.715 --> 00:22:19.895
and
00:22:19.895 --> 00:22:20.195
then there's
00:22:20.195 --> 00:22:20.675
things that
00:22:21.125 --> 00:22:21.485
unless
00:22:21.485 --> 00:22:21.605
you're
00:22:21.605 --> 00:22:21.935
looking
00:22:21.935 --> 00:22:22.445
for them,
00:22:23.015 --> 00:22:24.365
you know, you don't necessarily see it.
00:22:24.365 --> 00:22:25.265
And so we talk about
00:22:25.265 --> 00:22:25.805
a little bit of this
00:22:25.805 --> 00:22:25.865
in
00:22:25.865 --> 00:22:26.705
chapter six.
00:22:27.125 --> 00:22:27.455
We talk
00:22:27.455 --> 00:22:28.295
about how.
00:22:29.165 --> 00:22:29.345
It's
00:22:29.345 --> 00:22:29.525
not
00:22:29.525 --> 00:22:29.765
enough
00:22:29.765 --> 00:22:30.125
to just
00:22:30.125 --> 00:22:30.545
focus on
00:22:30.545 --> 00:22:30.935
schools.
00:22:30.995 --> 00:22:31.205
You know,
00:22:31.205 --> 00:22:31.565
kiddos
00:22:31.565 --> 00:22:31.805
are in
00:22:31.805 --> 00:22:32.375
schools
00:22:32.375 --> 00:22:33.065
about
00:22:33.155 --> 00:22:33.815
12%
00:22:33.815 --> 00:22:34.415
of the calendar
00:22:34.415 --> 00:22:34.625
year,
00:22:35.105 --> 00:22:35.645
The calendar year is
00:22:35.645 --> 00:22:36.635
8,700
00:22:36.635 --> 00:22:38.465
hours and the kids spend about
00:22:38.465 --> 00:22:38.825
11
00:22:38.825 --> 00:22:38.915
or
00:22:38.915 --> 00:22:39.785
1200 of it in
00:22:40.595 --> 00:22:40.895
So
00:22:40.895 --> 00:22:41.075
what
00:22:41.075 --> 00:22:41.405
happens to
00:22:41.405 --> 00:22:41.465
the
00:22:41.465 --> 00:22:41.645
other
00:22:41.645 --> 00:22:42.275
6,000
00:22:42.275 --> 00:22:42.545
hours
00:22:42.545 --> 00:22:43.625
or 7,000 hours?
00:22:43.727 --> 00:22:43.937
so
00:22:43.937 --> 00:22:44.297
part of
00:22:44.297 --> 00:22:44.747
that is,
00:22:45.227 --> 00:22:46.037
is working
00:22:46.187 --> 00:22:46.397
at
00:22:46.397 --> 00:22:48.017
the superintendent and principal
00:22:48.017 --> 00:22:48.497
level,
00:22:48.557 --> 00:22:52.985
at school leader level, board level, working with everything from
00:22:52.985 --> 00:22:53.945
prenatal
00:22:54.455 --> 00:22:55.055
education
00:22:55.055 --> 00:22:55.775
providers
00:22:56.285 --> 00:22:56.975
to,
00:22:57.425 --> 00:22:58.445
you know, colleges
00:22:58.835 --> 00:23:00.755
and, and really taking a community effort.
00:23:00.755 --> 00:23:01.085
Because
00:23:01.085 --> 00:23:01.805
what's happening
00:23:01.985 --> 00:23:02.765
in schools is
00:23:02.765 --> 00:23:04.085
only 12% of the year.
00:23:04.415 --> 00:23:04.565
It's
00:23:04.565 --> 00:23:05.105
what's happening
00:23:05.105 --> 00:23:05.735
outside of it.
00:23:05.735 --> 00:23:05.945
Right.
00:23:06.155 --> 00:23:06.365
So
00:23:06.365 --> 00:23:06.485
in
00:23:06.485 --> 00:23:10.565
our afterschool programs and our summer programs, we've actually really done away, unless the kids
00:23:10.565 --> 00:23:10.595
are
00:23:10.595 --> 00:23:10.805
doing
00:23:10.805 --> 00:23:11.105
Lego
00:23:11.105 --> 00:23:12.485
robotics, because we
00:23:12.485 --> 00:23:12.995
do want them
00:23:12.995 --> 00:23:17.765
engineering and thinking in that way, unless they're doing that or they have homework on their Chromebooks,
00:23:17.855 --> 00:23:18.065
they're
00:23:18.065 --> 00:23:18.515
basically
00:23:18.515 --> 00:23:19.535
not on screens at all.
00:23:19.865 --> 00:23:20.585
They're interacting
00:23:20.585 --> 00:23:21.155
with each other and.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:22.460
We put
00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:22.550
in
00:23:22.550 --> 00:23:22.760
place
00:23:22.760 --> 00:23:23.150
a couple of
00:23:23.150 --> 00:23:24.980
things that we talk about in the book.
00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:29.900
One's called pencil practice, where they're actually learning how to transfer information,
00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:29.990
how
00:23:29.990 --> 00:23:30.110
to
00:23:30.110 --> 00:23:30.560
shift
00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:32.510
and lock their focus.
00:23:32.570 --> 00:23:32.930
We put
00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:34.580
in place like learning centers for them
00:23:34.580 --> 00:23:34.670
to
00:23:34.670 --> 00:23:34.970
have
00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:35.720
to memorize
00:23:36.380 --> 00:23:36.530
the
00:23:36.530 --> 00:23:37.040
directions
00:23:37.040 --> 00:23:37.280
over
00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:37.670
there are
00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:39.440
such, and then I'm gonna do that for
00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:39.980
five minutes and
00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:40.070
then
00:23:40.070 --> 00:23:40.400
go over
00:23:40.430 --> 00:23:40.760
there
00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:41.300
and
00:23:41.300 --> 00:23:41.390
have
00:23:41.390 --> 00:23:41.960
a different set
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:42.590
of directions.
00:23:42.830 --> 00:23:43.460
'cause they're not getting
00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:43.850
a chance to
00:23:43.850 --> 00:23:46.100
practice that when they're just going from one app
00:23:46.370 --> 00:23:46.520
to
00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:46.640
the
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.090
next
00:23:47.090 --> 00:23:47.360
on their
00:23:47.360 --> 00:23:47.960
screens.
00:23:48.230 --> 00:23:48.440
And
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:48.830
so
00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:49.460
there's a
00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:50.450
cognitive decline,
00:23:50.540 --> 00:23:51.110
you know, measured
00:23:51.110 --> 00:23:51.830
by test scores
00:23:51.830 --> 00:23:52.280
and such.
00:23:52.580 --> 00:23:53.720
But then below that,
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:54.170
below that,
00:23:54.170 --> 00:23:54.290
there's
00:23:54.290 --> 00:23:55.040
a precognitive
00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:56.180
skills that we're really worried
00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:56.450
about.
00:23:56.810 --> 00:23:57.170
and We can
00:23:57.170 --> 00:23:57.620
think about
00:23:57.650 --> 00:23:58.250
ourselves.
00:23:58.334 --> 00:23:58.484
you know,
00:23:58.484 --> 00:23:59.264
memorizing phone
00:23:59.264 --> 00:23:59.684
numbers.
00:24:00.164 --> 00:24:02.294
We used to know thirty, forty, fifty phone numbers.
00:24:02.294 --> 00:24:02.474
Now
00:24:02.474 --> 00:24:02.594
we
00:24:02.594 --> 00:24:02.924
know like
00:24:02.924 --> 00:24:03.224
maybe
00:24:03.254 --> 00:24:05.711
three, and, and Nicholas Carr talked about
00:24:05.711 --> 00:24:05.831
this
00:24:05.831 --> 00:24:05.921
in
00:24:05.921 --> 00:24:06.011
the
00:24:06.011 --> 00:24:06.521
shallows.
00:24:06.911 --> 00:24:07.481
Very early
00:24:07.481 --> 00:24:07.721
book
00:24:07.721 --> 00:24:08.441
2010,
00:24:09.011 --> 00:24:09.311
talked
00:24:09.311 --> 00:24:10.451
about William James
00:24:10.451 --> 00:24:10.961
an American
00:24:10.961 --> 00:24:11.711
psychologist
00:24:11.711 --> 00:24:12.041
who
00:24:12.611 --> 00:24:15.731
compared learning, um, to, you
00:24:15.731 --> 00:24:15.881
know,
00:24:15.881 --> 00:24:16.331
water
00:24:16.331 --> 00:24:16.691
cutting
00:24:16.691 --> 00:24:16.841
through
00:24:16.841 --> 00:24:17.406
the sand
00:24:18.131 --> 00:24:19.211
and how water
00:24:19.211 --> 00:24:19.931
cuts through a sand
00:24:19.931 --> 00:24:20.021
and
00:24:20.021 --> 00:24:20.081
it
00:24:20.081 --> 00:24:20.441
creates
00:24:20.441 --> 00:24:20.981
a channel.
00:24:21.551 --> 00:24:22.031
So the next
00:24:22.031 --> 00:24:22.211
time
00:24:22.211 --> 00:24:22.511
water
00:24:22.511 --> 00:24:23.081
comes the same
00:24:23.081 --> 00:24:25.331
way, it'll probably find that channel, right?
00:24:25.721 --> 00:24:27.431
Same thing's going on with neural pathways.
00:24:27.431 --> 00:24:29.351
It's making those channels deeper and deeper
00:24:29.351 --> 00:24:29.831
and deeper.
00:24:30.431 --> 00:24:33.281
And so once you practice certain things, like
00:24:33.281 --> 00:24:33.641
not
00:24:33.641 --> 00:24:34.241
memorizing
00:24:34.241 --> 00:24:36.071
phone numbers guess
00:24:36.071 --> 00:24:36.191
what
00:24:36.191 --> 00:24:36.791
your brain's gonna
00:24:36.791 --> 00:24:37.001
do?
00:24:37.091 --> 00:24:39.191
Not memorize that phone number, especially if it knows
00:24:39.491 --> 00:24:39.941
it doesn't
00:24:39.941 --> 00:24:40.121
need
00:24:40.121 --> 00:24:40.331
to.
00:24:40.661 --> 00:24:41.081
And that's
00:24:41.081 --> 00:24:41.381
not,
00:24:41.441 --> 00:24:42.431
not as necessary,
00:24:42.761 --> 00:24:43.151
but things
00:24:43.151 --> 00:24:43.331
like
00:24:43.331 --> 00:24:43.721
having,
00:24:44.981 --> 00:24:46.721
awareness about the environment.
00:24:46.721 --> 00:24:47.411
Like one of the things that
00:24:47.411 --> 00:24:47.501
we
00:24:47.501 --> 00:24:47.741
noticed
00:24:47.741 --> 00:24:48.281
very early
00:24:48.281 --> 00:24:48.551
on
00:24:49.241 --> 00:24:49.481
with
00:24:49.481 --> 00:24:49.691
our
00:24:49.691 --> 00:24:52.101
staff applicants, you know, again, our 20, 21,
00:24:52.101 --> 00:24:53.771
22 year olds, is we
00:24:53.771 --> 00:24:53.951
would
00:24:53.951 --> 00:24:54.341
ask
00:24:54.341 --> 00:24:54.761
them,
00:24:54.911 --> 00:24:56.831
um, where do you
00:24:56.831 --> 00:24:57.281
live?
00:24:58.466 --> 00:24:58.736
Like
00:24:58.736 --> 00:24:59.306
the address,
00:24:59.306 --> 00:25:00.176
the cross streets.
00:25:00.206 --> 00:25:00.326
And
00:25:00.326 --> 00:25:00.416
the
00:25:00.416 --> 00:25:01.646
reason we needed to know that is so we
00:25:01.646 --> 00:25:02.216
knew like
00:25:02.216 --> 00:25:02.726
what schools
00:25:02.726 --> 00:25:04.676
to place in that, because we had like 35 schools
00:25:05.077 --> 00:25:05.287
they didn't
00:25:05.287 --> 00:25:05.987
know the cross streets.
00:25:06.787 --> 00:25:07.027
I
00:25:07.027 --> 00:25:07.207
live
00:25:07.207 --> 00:25:07.537
over by
00:25:07.537 --> 00:25:08.227
the Circle K.
00:25:08.317 --> 00:25:08.437
Like
00:25:08.437 --> 00:25:09.157
what do you mean the circle
00:25:09.157 --> 00:25:09.457
K
00:25:09.907 --> 00:25:10.477
by the Circle
00:25:10.477 --> 00:25:10.567
K
00:25:10.567 --> 00:25:11.617
behind the nail salon.
00:25:11.647 --> 00:25:13.657
Like we have a lot of nail salons, you know, like you need
00:25:13.657 --> 00:25:14.317
to know
00:25:14.955 --> 00:25:15.165
how
00:25:15.165 --> 00:25:17.805
do you find yourself in
00:25:18.045 --> 00:25:18.135
a
00:25:18.135 --> 00:25:18.315
three
00:25:18.315 --> 00:25:18.855
dimensional
00:25:18.855 --> 00:25:19.545
space
00:25:19.905 --> 00:25:20.325
if you don't
00:25:20.325 --> 00:25:22.365
have that sense of space of geography?
00:25:22.695 --> 00:25:22.965
So
00:25:22.965 --> 00:25:23.295
I think
00:25:23.295 --> 00:25:23.685
what we're
00:25:23.685 --> 00:25:24.435
losing
00:25:24.945 --> 00:25:25.215
goes
00:25:25.215 --> 00:25:25.605
well
00:25:25.605 --> 00:25:25.965
beyond
00:25:25.965 --> 00:25:28.545
cognitive into like some sociocognitive things that
00:25:28.545 --> 00:25:28.755
make
00:25:28.755 --> 00:25:28.935
us
00:25:28.935 --> 00:25:29.295
be able
00:25:29.295 --> 00:25:29.505
to,
00:25:29.895 --> 00:25:30.525
to, function.
00:25:31.125 --> 00:25:33.465
Gene Tavernetti: And I think without an awareness of what,
00:25:33.525 --> 00:25:34.035
what Frank's
00:25:34.035 --> 00:25:37.545
talking about, we look for technology
00:25:37.545 --> 00:25:38.025
to help us
00:25:38.025 --> 00:25:38.805
get out of that.
00:25:38.925 --> 00:25:42.645
So, so, and I think again, that's where these, these vendors are so good.
00:25:42.795 --> 00:25:43.695
Oh, you have a problem.
00:25:43.695 --> 00:25:45.165
Your kids aren't performing well in this.
00:25:45.165 --> 00:25:45.975
We got an app.
00:25:46.485 --> 00:25:46.755
We
00:25:46.755 --> 00:25:46.905
got
00:25:46.905 --> 00:25:47.625
a platform.
00:25:47.985 --> 00:25:49.810
And so again, the
00:25:49.905 --> 00:25:51.947
the irony is, really
00:25:51.947 --> 00:25:52.937
shows the captivity.
00:25:53.447 --> 00:25:54.377
Like, like, we've got a
00:25:54.377 --> 00:25:54.797
problem
00:25:54.797 --> 00:26:00.177
caused by this, but the same people are gonna help pull us out, which doesn't happen.
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.690
Bart: Could you explain screen inferiority in reading comprehension?
00:26:06.295 --> 00:26:06.565
Frank: Yeah.
00:26:06.565 --> 00:26:07.390
So Johann Hari
00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:07.830
talks about
00:26:07.885 --> 00:26:08.095
that in
00:26:08.095 --> 00:26:08.965
stolen focus.
00:26:09.025 --> 00:26:09.475
Um,
00:26:09.565 --> 00:26:10.645
and it's, there's
00:26:10.645 --> 00:26:10.915
quite
00:26:10.915 --> 00:26:10.975
a
00:26:10.975 --> 00:26:11.665
few studies
00:26:11.995 --> 00:26:12.235
by
00:26:12.235 --> 00:26:12.475
now
00:26:12.475 --> 00:26:12.625
that
00:26:12.625 --> 00:26:13.465
have shown it that,
00:26:13.701 --> 00:26:14.121
because
00:26:14.121 --> 00:26:14.331
when
00:26:14.331 --> 00:26:15.081
we read,
00:26:15.547 --> 00:26:15.847
we
00:26:15.847 --> 00:26:15.997
are
00:26:15.997 --> 00:26:16.507
tracking
00:26:16.507 --> 00:26:16.807
left
00:26:16.807 --> 00:26:16.957
to
00:26:16.957 --> 00:26:17.257
right,
00:26:17.527 --> 00:26:17.857
right?
00:26:18.217 --> 00:26:18.757
And
00:26:18.757 --> 00:26:18.937
if
00:26:18.937 --> 00:26:19.027
we're
00:26:19.027 --> 00:26:19.267
reading
00:26:19.267 --> 00:26:20.857
a book, things don't pop
00:26:20.857 --> 00:26:21.277
out at you.
00:26:21.577 --> 00:26:22.597
You're not expecting
00:26:22.627 --> 00:26:22.897
things
00:26:22.897 --> 00:26:22.987
to
00:26:22.987 --> 00:26:23.437
pop out
00:26:23.437 --> 00:26:23.827
at you.
00:26:24.247 --> 00:26:25.297
Um, there's
00:26:25.297 --> 00:26:26.827
a tactile connection.
00:26:26.827 --> 00:26:28.657
There's, There's, a connection to the
00:26:28.657 --> 00:26:28.897
brain
00:26:28.897 --> 00:26:28.987
that
00:26:28.987 --> 00:26:29.587
is different
00:26:29.947 --> 00:26:30.277
than when we
00:26:30.277 --> 00:26:30.577
read on
00:26:30.577 --> 00:26:30.997
screens.
00:26:31.177 --> 00:26:31.327
When
00:26:31.327 --> 00:26:31.387
we
00:26:31.387 --> 00:26:31.597
read on
00:26:31.597 --> 00:26:32.017
screens,
00:26:32.017 --> 00:26:34.777
we're reading, uh, we're skimming and scanning
00:26:34.777 --> 00:26:35.077
more.
00:26:35.407 --> 00:26:36.397
We're expecting
00:26:36.457 --> 00:26:37.657
more things to,
00:26:37.657 --> 00:26:37.897
to be
00:26:37.897 --> 00:26:38.437
going on with
00:26:38.437 --> 00:26:38.927
the, with the,
00:26:39.517 --> 00:26:39.667
the
00:26:39.667 --> 00:26:40.357
text around
00:26:40.357 --> 00:26:40.507
it.
00:26:40.867 --> 00:26:41.107
And
00:26:41.107 --> 00:26:41.407
so
00:26:41.407 --> 00:26:42.127
what his.
00:26:42.652 --> 00:26:42.922
Book
00:26:42.922 --> 00:26:43.612
shows
00:26:44.002 --> 00:26:44.362
is
00:26:44.362 --> 00:26:44.632
that
00:26:44.632 --> 00:26:45.262
by the time the
00:26:45.262 --> 00:26:45.502
kids
00:26:45.502 --> 00:26:45.742
are in
00:26:45.742 --> 00:26:46.492
third grade,
00:26:47.302 --> 00:26:48.352
um, there's about,
00:26:48.562 --> 00:26:49.852
about a two thirds of
00:26:49.852 --> 00:26:49.912
a
00:26:49.912 --> 00:26:51.472
year loss if they're
00:26:51.472 --> 00:26:51.862
reading
00:26:51.862 --> 00:26:52.372
primarily
00:26:52.372 --> 00:26:53.122
on screens
00:26:53.422 --> 00:26:53.932
versus reading
00:26:53.932 --> 00:26:54.802
primarily,
00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:55.949
on text.
00:26:56.329 --> 00:26:56.479
and
00:26:56.479 --> 00:26:56.689
then that,
00:26:56.749 --> 00:26:58.279
that carries, you know, that carries, and we
00:26:58.279 --> 00:26:58.729
see that
00:26:59.149 --> 00:26:59.809
there's actually
00:26:59.809 --> 00:26:59.989
a,
00:26:59.989 --> 00:27:00.229
an
00:27:00.229 --> 00:27:01.099
article in,
00:27:01.129 --> 00:27:04.159
um, I'm sorry, not an article, a quote in the book
00:27:04.159 --> 00:27:04.369
from
00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:04.459
a
00:27:04.459 --> 00:27:05.029
teacher,
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:06.469
who,
00:27:06.469 --> 00:27:07.609
you know, she
00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:07.849
taught
00:27:07.849 --> 00:27:07.999
for
00:27:07.999 --> 00:27:09.469
37 years college, a
00:27:09.469 --> 00:27:09.739
reading
00:27:09.739 --> 00:27:10.249
specialist
00:27:10.249 --> 00:27:10.429
and a
00:27:10.429 --> 00:27:11.209
college professor.
00:27:11.689 --> 00:27:12.169
And,
00:27:12.169 --> 00:27:12.409
uh,
00:27:12.409 --> 00:27:13.129
she, in a
00:27:13.129 --> 00:27:13.879
college class,
00:27:13.879 --> 00:27:14.269
she would
00:27:14.269 --> 00:27:14.569
give
00:27:14.569 --> 00:27:15.679
the, the students
00:27:15.859 --> 00:27:16.189
first
00:27:16.189 --> 00:27:16.279
day
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:16.789
of class,
00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:17.179
a
00:27:17.179 --> 00:27:17.599
fourth
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:18.049
to sixth
00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:18.769
grade text
00:27:19.129 --> 00:27:19.429
just
00:27:19.429 --> 00:27:20.209
to see where they were.
00:27:20.869 --> 00:27:21.199
And she
00:27:21.199 --> 00:27:21.889
said that
00:27:21.889 --> 00:27:22.219
over the
00:27:22.219 --> 00:27:22.459
course
00:27:22.459 --> 00:27:22.519
of
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:23.059
the last 10
00:27:23.059 --> 00:27:23.509
years,
00:27:23.719 --> 00:27:24.109
there's been a
00:27:24.109 --> 00:27:25.189
steady decline.
00:27:25.819 --> 00:27:26.149
And their
00:27:26.149 --> 00:27:26.449
ability
00:27:26.449 --> 00:27:28.189
to read college students' ability to read
00:27:28.339 --> 00:27:28.849
fourth
00:27:28.849 --> 00:27:30.589
to sixth grade text because
00:27:30.589 --> 00:27:30.679
they're
00:27:30.679 --> 00:27:31.069
very good
00:27:31.069 --> 00:27:31.519
at skimming
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:32.179
and scanning.
00:27:32.749 --> 00:27:32.899
They're
00:27:32.899 --> 00:27:33.259
not as
00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:33.679
good as
00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:34.639
that linear
00:27:34.639 --> 00:27:35.239
reading
00:27:35.239 --> 00:27:35.509
and that
00:27:35.509 --> 00:27:36.199
internalizing of
00:27:37.429 --> 00:27:37.849
it, I mean,
00:27:37.849 --> 00:27:39.889
so it's, it's numbers, it's numerical, you know,
00:27:39.889 --> 00:27:40.429
Johann Hari
00:27:40.429 --> 00:27:41.119
talks about that,
00:27:41.419 --> 00:27:41.719
but we
00:27:41.719 --> 00:27:42.409
see it every day
00:27:42.409 --> 00:27:42.499
and
00:27:42.499 --> 00:27:42.859
we see
00:27:42.859 --> 00:27:43.219
it with,
00:27:43.219 --> 00:27:44.059
you know, like, like
00:27:44.089 --> 00:27:44.539
Kathy
00:27:44.539 --> 00:27:45.134
did in the
00:27:46.414 --> 00:27:46.534
Gene Tavernetti: you
00:27:46.534 --> 00:27:46.654
know.
00:27:46.654 --> 00:27:46.744
And
00:27:46.744 --> 00:27:48.724
I think also some of the, some
00:27:48.724 --> 00:27:48.814
of
00:27:48.814 --> 00:27:51.604
the interventions for students, older students who aren't,
00:27:52.144 --> 00:27:52.444
uh,
00:27:52.444 --> 00:27:52.774
reading
00:27:52.774 --> 00:27:56.014
well are based on, you know,
00:27:56.014 --> 00:27:56.524
having this
00:27:56.524 --> 00:27:56.824
book
00:27:56.824 --> 00:27:57.154
in front
00:27:57.154 --> 00:27:57.454
of them.
00:27:57.904 --> 00:28:05.134
Be learning how to annotate, learning how to ask questions, learning how to, uh, uh, read for prosody.
00:28:05.134 --> 00:28:05.434
I mean,
00:28:05.464 --> 00:28:06.124
you know, all of
00:28:06.124 --> 00:28:06.334
these
00:28:06.334 --> 00:28:06.784
things.
00:28:07.174 --> 00:28:07.504
Can't
00:28:07.504 --> 00:28:07.624
do
00:28:07.624 --> 00:28:07.864
it with
00:28:07.864 --> 00:28:08.344
a screen.
00:28:08.734 --> 00:28:09.094
You just,
00:28:09.094 --> 00:28:09.244
you
00:28:09.244 --> 00:28:09.994
just can't.
00:28:10.354 --> 00:28:12.094
Uh, big, a big push now
00:28:12.094 --> 00:28:12.484
is to get
00:28:12.484 --> 00:28:15.064
novels back into, into, secondary
00:28:15.064 --> 00:28:15.754
classroom or in all
00:28:15.814 --> 00:28:16.474
classrooms.
00:28:16.564 --> 00:28:17.494
And again, that
00:28:17.494 --> 00:28:17.764
has
00:28:17.764 --> 00:28:19.864
to be, you gotta be holding,
00:28:19.864 --> 00:28:20.614
you gotta be holding
00:28:20.614 --> 00:28:22.594
that paper and that paper book
00:28:22.804 --> 00:28:22.924
to
00:28:22.924 --> 00:28:23.704
be able to do it.
00:28:24.094 --> 00:28:24.634
So
00:28:24.664 --> 00:28:26.224
I, I think there are just some
00:28:26.224 --> 00:28:27.484
things that screens
00:28:27.514 --> 00:28:27.724
you
00:28:27.724 --> 00:28:28.024
can't
00:28:28.024 --> 00:28:28.354
do
00:28:28.966 --> 00:28:29.566
we just have to
00:28:29.566 --> 00:28:30.226
fess up to that.
00:28:30.859 --> 00:28:31.549
Frank: There's a
00:28:31.729 --> 00:28:33.169
um, uh,
00:28:33.199 --> 00:28:33.709
Barbara King
00:28:33.709 --> 00:28:35.139
Solver's book, the Bean Trees,
00:28:36.529 --> 00:28:36.739
came
00:28:36.739 --> 00:28:40.579
out like in 88 or so, 89, and it's like, it's been passed on in my family.
00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:41.209
Every, everybody's
00:28:41.209 --> 00:28:41.359
read
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:41.959
it 'cause I have to read it
00:28:41.959 --> 00:28:42.079
in
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.379
school
00:28:42.379 --> 00:28:43.519
' cause she's from Tucson.
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:44.119
And I went to U of
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:44.269
A
00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:46.459
and then my son had to read it.
00:28:46.459 --> 00:28:46.909
My daughter, I had
00:28:46.909 --> 00:28:46.999
to
00:28:46.999 --> 00:28:47.209
read it.
00:28:47.209 --> 00:28:47.479
Now my
00:28:47.479 --> 00:28:48.139
youngest
00:28:48.199 --> 00:28:49.609
is reading it and I came,
00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:49.999
came
00:28:49.999 --> 00:28:50.179
into
00:28:50.179 --> 00:28:50.239
a
00:28:50.239 --> 00:28:50.449
room
00:28:50.449 --> 00:28:51.199
last week
00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:52.069
and she was
00:28:52.069 --> 00:28:52.879
listening to
00:28:52.879 --> 00:28:53.029
a,
00:28:53.209 --> 00:28:53.719
something
00:28:53.719 --> 00:28:54.289
being read.
00:28:55.579 --> 00:28:55.849
And then I
00:28:55.849 --> 00:28:56.299
looked at her
00:28:56.299 --> 00:28:57.079
and she's got the book
00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:57.199
in
00:28:57.199 --> 00:28:57.289
her
00:28:57.289 --> 00:28:57.529
hand.
00:28:57.559 --> 00:28:57.829
It's the
00:28:57.829 --> 00:28:58.399
bean Trees.
00:28:59.029 --> 00:28:59.719
Um, and
00:28:59.719 --> 00:29:00.109
I said,
00:29:00.439 --> 00:29:00.979
what, what are
00:29:00.979 --> 00:29:01.069
you
00:29:01.069 --> 00:29:01.309
doing
00:29:01.309 --> 00:29:01.549
there?
00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:02.479
And she said, I'm
00:29:02.479 --> 00:29:03.019
I'm reading a
00:29:03.019 --> 00:29:03.319
book.
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:03.409
And
00:29:03.409 --> 00:29:03.619
I said,
00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:04.159
no, you're not
00:29:04.159 --> 00:29:04.579
reading.
00:29:04.609 --> 00:29:05.209
YouTube
00:29:05.209 --> 00:29:05.749
is reading.
00:29:06.229 --> 00:29:06.619
And she
00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:06.769
said,
00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:06.979
well,
00:29:06.979 --> 00:29:07.069
I'm
00:29:07.069 --> 00:29:08.029
following along.
00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:08.779
And she's
00:29:08.779 --> 00:29:08.869
like,
00:29:08.869 --> 00:29:09.319
but look,
00:29:09.469 --> 00:29:10.279
I've annotated
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:10.519
it.
00:29:10.879 --> 00:29:11.629
So she
00:29:11.629 --> 00:29:12.499
understood
00:29:12.499 --> 00:29:13.099
that really
00:29:13.099 --> 00:29:13.339
she
00:29:13.339 --> 00:29:14.359
had to have some sort
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:14.449
of
00:29:14.479 --> 00:29:14.899
tactile
00:29:14.929 --> 00:29:15.409
connection
00:29:15.439 --> 00:29:15.769
to it.
00:29:16.699 --> 00:29:19.039
But I told her, you know, you need to actually
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:19.669
be doing the
00:29:19.669 --> 00:29:20.209
effort.
00:29:20.614 --> 00:29:21.094
Of
00:29:21.454 --> 00:29:21.844
having
00:29:21.844 --> 00:29:22.654
your brain make
00:29:22.654 --> 00:29:22.924
those,
00:29:22.924 --> 00:29:23.164
make
00:29:23.164 --> 00:29:23.314
that
00:29:23.314 --> 00:29:23.734
decoding,
00:29:23.734 --> 00:29:24.029
and then,
00:29:24.129 --> 00:29:24.349
and
00:29:24.354 --> 00:29:24.964
then turn that into
00:29:24.964 --> 00:29:25.684
comprehension.
00:29:25.714 --> 00:29:26.554
because otherwise
00:29:26.968 --> 00:29:27.328
it's not
00:29:27.328 --> 00:29:27.418
the
00:29:27.418 --> 00:29:27.658
same
00:29:27.658 --> 00:29:28.078
level,
00:29:28.108 --> 00:29:29.518
not the same level of comprehension.
00:29:29.518 --> 00:29:29.848
So,
00:29:30.114 --> 00:29:30.414
even
00:29:30.414 --> 00:29:30.654
kids
00:29:30.654 --> 00:29:31.044
who are like,
00:29:31.254 --> 00:29:32.364
you know, pretty bright
00:29:32.364 --> 00:29:32.544
and
00:29:32.544 --> 00:29:32.844
doing
00:29:32.844 --> 00:29:33.474
the work,
00:29:33.504 --> 00:29:33.774
even
00:29:33.774 --> 00:29:33.864
the
00:29:33.864 --> 00:29:34.404
tactile
00:29:34.404 --> 00:29:34.794
work of
00:29:34.794 --> 00:29:34.974
it
00:29:35.424 --> 00:29:35.724
will
00:29:35.724 --> 00:29:36.004
fall, fall
00:29:36.004 --> 00:29:36.174
into
00:29:36.174 --> 00:29:36.954
those traps
00:29:37.014 --> 00:29:37.464
of
00:29:37.854 --> 00:29:38.154
what's
00:29:38.154 --> 00:29:38.244
the
00:29:38.244 --> 00:29:38.964
easiest way
00:29:38.964 --> 00:29:40.367
to do like Gene
00:29:40.367 --> 00:29:40.937
was saying,
00:29:41.477 --> 00:29:41.777
the,
00:29:41.777 --> 00:29:41.897
the
00:29:41.897 --> 00:29:42.557
digital
00:29:42.707 --> 00:29:43.157
companies
00:29:43.157 --> 00:29:43.937
will say, here,
00:29:43.937 --> 00:29:44.297
we'll help
00:29:44.297 --> 00:29:44.417
you
00:29:44.417 --> 00:29:44.537
do
00:29:44.537 --> 00:29:44.627
it.
00:29:45.317 --> 00:29:45.587
So
00:29:45.587 --> 00:29:45.767
like
00:29:45.767 --> 00:29:46.457
in our programs
00:29:46.457 --> 00:29:46.697
after
00:29:46.697 --> 00:29:46.877
school,
00:29:46.877 --> 00:29:47.357
we've told
00:29:47.357 --> 00:29:47.507
them,
00:29:47.957 --> 00:29:48.107
we
00:29:48.107 --> 00:29:48.227
don't
00:29:48.227 --> 00:29:48.497
want
00:29:48.497 --> 00:29:49.187
you reading
00:29:49.637 --> 00:29:50.507
on, you
00:29:50.507 --> 00:29:50.957
know, on
00:29:50.957 --> 00:29:51.377
the screen
00:29:51.377 --> 00:29:51.707
anymore.
00:29:52.157 --> 00:29:52.487
Take the
00:29:52.487 --> 00:29:52.697
kids
00:29:52.697 --> 00:29:53.087
outside,
00:29:53.087 --> 00:29:53.597
sit under a
00:29:53.597 --> 00:29:54.107
tree and read
00:29:54.107 --> 00:29:54.362
a book
00:29:55.007 --> 00:29:55.187
for
00:29:55.187 --> 00:29:55.517
the same
00:29:55.517 --> 00:29:55.817
reason.
00:29:55.817 --> 00:29:55.997
They
00:29:55.997 --> 00:29:56.207
need
00:29:56.207 --> 00:29:56.297
to
00:29:56.297 --> 00:29:56.987
hear the
00:29:56.987 --> 00:29:57.587
modeling and
00:29:57.587 --> 00:29:59.297
they need to, they need to make that connection
00:29:59.297 --> 00:29:59.687
in a way
00:29:59.687 --> 00:30:00.707
that we
00:30:00.707 --> 00:30:00.917
walk
00:30:00.917 --> 00:30:01.067
into
00:30:01.067 --> 00:30:01.487
kindergarten
00:30:01.487 --> 00:30:02.327
classroom sometimes
00:30:02.417 --> 00:30:03.047
and
00:30:03.047 --> 00:30:03.257
kids
00:30:03.257 --> 00:30:03.557
dunno how to
00:30:03.557 --> 00:30:04.307
turn a page
00:30:04.607 --> 00:30:04.697
' cause
00:30:04.697 --> 00:30:04.817
they're
00:30:04.817 --> 00:30:05.777
so used to just swiping,
00:30:06.077 --> 00:30:07.037
you know, On the iPad.
00:30:07.157 --> 00:30:07.517
So there's
00:30:07.517 --> 00:30:09.017
something being lost there for sure.
00:30:10.277 --> 00:30:13.397
Bart: Why are lower achieving students seeing the steepest declines?
00:30:14.342 --> 00:30:14.522
Gene Tavernetti: It
00:30:14.522 --> 00:30:15.302
gets back
00:30:15.302 --> 00:30:15.872
to,
00:30:15.932 --> 00:30:16.382
um,
00:30:17.042 --> 00:30:18.452
uh, instruction.
00:30:18.452 --> 00:30:18.752
I mean,
00:30:18.752 --> 00:30:18.842
it,
00:30:18.842 --> 00:30:19.532
it's hard
00:30:19.982 --> 00:30:20.702
not to
00:30:20.702 --> 00:30:22.652
leave instruction as, as the most
00:30:22.652 --> 00:30:23.582
important variable,
00:30:23.612 --> 00:30:25.712
which, which I think research, again,
00:30:25.712 --> 00:30:26.252
for the past
00:30:26.312 --> 00:30:27.332
50, 60 years.
00:30:27.332 --> 00:30:30.091
That's one of the, that's one of the, the primary, variables.
00:30:30.661 --> 00:30:31.261
And,
00:30:31.321 --> 00:30:31.531
and
00:30:31.531 --> 00:30:32.311
to be honest,
00:30:33.541 --> 00:30:33.871
it's
00:30:34.351 --> 00:30:35.281
how to teach
00:30:35.701 --> 00:30:35.881
is
00:30:35.881 --> 00:30:36.211
not
00:30:36.571 --> 00:30:36.991
taught
00:30:37.021 --> 00:30:37.501
in
00:30:37.783 --> 00:30:38.383
programs
00:30:38.383 --> 00:30:38.953
and teacher prep
00:30:38.953 --> 00:30:39.523
programs.
00:30:39.853 --> 00:30:40.903
In fact, again,
00:30:40.903 --> 00:30:41.173
during
00:30:41.173 --> 00:30:42.868
CO. You
00:30:42.868 --> 00:30:44.428
know, we don't want to blame
00:30:44.428 --> 00:30:45.358
COVID for everything,
00:30:45.358 --> 00:30:47.218
but they can be blamed for a few things.
00:30:47.218 --> 00:30:47.278
I
00:30:47.278 --> 00:30:47.728
mean, there were
00:30:47.728 --> 00:30:48.208
teachers who
00:30:48.208 --> 00:30:49.438
got their credential never
00:30:49.438 --> 00:30:49.738
having
00:30:49.738 --> 00:30:50.278
set foot in
00:30:50.278 --> 00:30:50.878
a classroom.
00:30:51.264 --> 00:30:56.124
And so, um, the, the programs, they don't train
00:30:56.334 --> 00:30:56.934
teachers.
00:30:57.325 --> 00:30:57.535
but
00:30:57.535 --> 00:30:58.495
they educate
00:30:58.585 --> 00:30:59.065
teachers
00:30:59.065 --> 00:31:00.025
about things.
00:31:00.295 --> 00:31:01.735
And so they don't, they don't learn how
00:31:01.735 --> 00:31:02.605
to teach a lesson,
00:31:02.605 --> 00:31:02.785
but
00:31:02.785 --> 00:31:03.355
they read
00:31:03.355 --> 00:31:03.865
about
00:31:03.925 --> 00:31:04.435
different
00:31:04.435 --> 00:31:05.095
ways to
00:31:05.095 --> 00:31:05.965
teach lessons.
00:31:06.355 --> 00:31:08.155
And so I think there's just a,
00:31:08.155 --> 00:31:08.275
a
00:31:08.275 --> 00:31:08.665
dearth
00:31:08.695 --> 00:31:08.995
of,
00:31:09.025 --> 00:31:09.415
uh,
00:31:10.135 --> 00:31:10.315
of
00:31:10.315 --> 00:31:11.125
education
00:31:11.125 --> 00:31:11.425
for,
00:31:11.425 --> 00:31:11.635
in
00:31:11.635 --> 00:31:12.355
pre-service.
00:31:13.015 --> 00:31:13.525
Frank: I think
00:31:13.525 --> 00:31:14.365
also the, I mean
00:31:14.395 --> 00:31:14.635
to
00:31:14.815 --> 00:31:15.715
to your question
00:31:15.715 --> 00:31:15.925
about
00:31:15.925 --> 00:31:16.345
why the
00:31:16.345 --> 00:31:17.845
kids who were struggling the
00:31:17.845 --> 00:31:18.865
most are struggling more.
00:31:19.291 --> 00:31:19.501
we
00:31:19.501 --> 00:31:19.981
dedicate
00:31:19.981 --> 00:31:20.851
the book to kids who
00:31:20.851 --> 00:31:21.541
need to be taught.
00:31:21.811 --> 00:31:21.931
You
00:31:21.931 --> 00:31:22.021
know,
00:31:22.021 --> 00:31:23.101
there are some children who,
00:31:23.373 --> 00:31:23.553
who
00:31:23.553 --> 00:31:23.793
can
00:31:24.183 --> 00:31:24.453
go to the
00:31:24.453 --> 00:31:24.933
library on
00:31:24.933 --> 00:31:25.023
their
00:31:25.023 --> 00:31:25.233
own
00:31:25.473 --> 00:31:26.133
and they're fine.
00:31:26.133 --> 00:31:26.223
And
00:31:26.223 --> 00:31:26.373
we
00:31:26.373 --> 00:31:26.553
see
00:31:26.553 --> 00:31:26.823
it now
00:31:26.823 --> 00:31:26.973
when we
00:31:26.973 --> 00:31:27.153
walk
00:31:27.153 --> 00:31:27.303
into
00:31:27.303 --> 00:31:27.693
the classrooms.
00:31:27.693 --> 00:31:28.353
like yesterday
00:31:28.953 --> 00:31:29.343
I was
00:31:29.613 --> 00:31:29.883
telling
00:31:29.883 --> 00:31:30.333
the administrators
00:31:30.333 --> 00:31:30.723
I was with,
00:31:30.723 --> 00:31:30.993
like,
00:31:31.323 --> 00:31:31.443
you
00:31:31.443 --> 00:31:31.653
can
00:31:31.653 --> 00:31:32.043
tell that the
00:31:32.043 --> 00:31:32.643
screens have
00:31:32.643 --> 00:31:33.093
made, have
00:31:33.093 --> 00:31:33.333
made
00:31:33.333 --> 00:31:33.423
the
00:31:33.423 --> 00:31:34.623
self-directed kids
00:31:35.553 --> 00:31:36.033
continue
00:31:36.033 --> 00:31:36.153
to
00:31:36.153 --> 00:31:36.303
be
00:31:36.303 --> 00:31:36.663
active
00:31:36.663 --> 00:31:37.353
learners and
00:31:37.353 --> 00:31:37.593
those
00:31:37.593 --> 00:31:37.683
who
00:31:37.683 --> 00:31:38.913
wanna opt out cannot opt
00:31:38.913 --> 00:31:39.063
out.
00:31:39.618 --> 00:31:40.338
It's much harder
00:31:40.338 --> 00:31:40.398
to
00:31:40.398 --> 00:31:40.548
do
00:31:40.548 --> 00:31:40.758
that
00:31:40.758 --> 00:31:40.878
when
00:31:40.878 --> 00:31:40.998
there's
00:31:40.998 --> 00:31:41.748
that interaction
00:31:41.748 --> 00:31:42.018
with the
00:31:42.018 --> 00:31:42.438
teacher,
00:31:43.068 --> 00:31:43.428
teachers
00:31:43.428 --> 00:31:44.208
modeling, doing
00:31:44.208 --> 00:31:45.198
guided practice,
00:31:45.261 --> 00:31:45.591
and
00:31:45.621 --> 00:31:46.011
making
00:31:46.011 --> 00:31:46.941
the kids accountable
00:31:46.971 --> 00:31:47.931
moment to moment.
00:31:48.261 --> 00:31:48.471
I think
00:31:48.531 --> 00:31:48.951
that's
00:31:48.951 --> 00:31:49.911
fallen off.
00:31:50.001 --> 00:31:50.391
You know,
00:31:50.391 --> 00:31:50.571
And I
00:31:50.571 --> 00:31:50.721
think
00:31:50.721 --> 00:31:50.961
because
00:31:50.961 --> 00:31:51.051
that
00:31:51.051 --> 00:31:51.501
accountability
00:31:51.501 --> 00:31:52.521
has fallen off,
00:31:52.731 --> 00:31:53.691
that relationship
00:31:53.691 --> 00:31:54.531
has fallen off
00:31:54.861 --> 00:31:55.221
between
00:31:55.221 --> 00:31:55.821
the teacher
00:31:55.821 --> 00:31:56.451
and the, and
00:31:56.451 --> 00:31:57.141
the students.
00:31:57.531 --> 00:31:58.011
I think that
00:31:58.011 --> 00:31:58.881
that's been a
00:31:58.881 --> 00:31:59.421
big piece
00:31:59.421 --> 00:31:59.661
of it.
00:32:00.111 --> 00:32:00.801
But going back,
00:32:00.801 --> 00:32:00.951
even
00:32:00.951 --> 00:32:01.101
like
00:32:01.101 --> 00:32:01.971
Gino was talking about
00:32:02.361 --> 00:32:02.511
the
00:32:02.511 --> 00:32:03.711
1970s and eighties,
00:32:04.101 --> 00:32:04.941
Ruby Payne,
00:32:04.971 --> 00:32:05.421
uh,
00:32:05.691 --> 00:32:07.281
framework, for Understanding Poverty,
00:32:07.521 --> 00:32:07.611
if
00:32:07.611 --> 00:32:08.181
you remember that
00:32:08.181 --> 00:32:08.811
book, uh,
00:32:08.841 --> 00:32:09.681
from, I think it was
00:32:09.681 --> 00:32:10.281
the late eighties,
00:32:10.581 --> 00:32:11.211
talked about
00:32:11.211 --> 00:32:11.571
how
00:32:12.441 --> 00:32:13.101
the single most
00:32:13.101 --> 00:32:13.401
important
00:32:13.401 --> 00:32:13.521
thing
00:32:13.521 --> 00:32:13.851
we do as
00:32:13.851 --> 00:32:14.061
far
00:32:14.061 --> 00:32:15.231
as instruction
00:32:15.561 --> 00:32:16.431
is the modeling
00:32:17.511 --> 00:32:17.841
Because
00:32:17.841 --> 00:32:18.711
the modeling is where you
00:32:18.711 --> 00:32:19.911
demystify the learner.
00:32:20.061 --> 00:32:20.121
I
00:32:20.121 --> 00:32:20.241
mean,
00:32:20.241 --> 00:32:20.601
I'm sorry, the
00:32:20.601 --> 00:32:20.901
learning.
00:32:21.291 --> 00:32:21.681
It, it
00:32:21.681 --> 00:32:22.131
makes it,
00:32:22.131 --> 00:32:22.581
it makes
00:32:22.581 --> 00:32:22.701
it
00:32:23.121 --> 00:32:23.451
quit
00:32:23.451 --> 00:32:25.101
being magic and
00:32:25.101 --> 00:32:25.191
it
00:32:25.191 --> 00:32:25.941
becomes, oh, I can
00:32:25.941 --> 00:32:26.571
do that too.
00:32:27.081 --> 00:32:27.741
And that
00:32:27.891 --> 00:32:28.191
with the
00:32:28.191 --> 00:32:28.581
modeling
00:32:28.581 --> 00:32:28.971
falling
00:32:28.971 --> 00:32:29.361
off,
00:32:29.391 --> 00:32:29.691
that
00:32:29.691 --> 00:32:30.651
demystification
00:32:30.651 --> 00:32:31.281
has fallen off.
00:32:31.281 --> 00:32:31.491
And I
00:32:31.491 --> 00:32:31.671
think
00:32:31.671 --> 00:32:31.761
you
00:32:31.761 --> 00:32:31.941
see
00:32:31.941 --> 00:32:32.241
a lot
00:32:32.241 --> 00:32:32.931
of more kids
00:32:33.201 --> 00:32:33.501
having
00:32:33.501 --> 00:32:33.681
this
00:32:33.681 --> 00:32:34.911
learned helplessness
00:32:35.331 --> 00:32:35.811
because
00:32:36.350 --> 00:32:36.560
they're
00:32:36.560 --> 00:32:37.550
not getting that anymore.
00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:37.700
So
00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:37.790
I
00:32:37.790 --> 00:32:37.940
think
00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:38.120
that's
00:32:38.120 --> 00:32:39.290
why we're seeing the steep declines.
00:32:39.590 --> 00:32:39.770
And
00:32:39.770 --> 00:32:40.190
again,
00:32:40.220 --> 00:32:40.760
the numbers
00:32:40.760 --> 00:32:41.090
show
00:32:41.090 --> 00:32:41.240
it.
00:32:41.750 --> 00:32:41.990
Uh,
00:32:41.990 --> 00:32:42.110
we
00:32:42.110 --> 00:32:42.590
talk about
00:32:42.590 --> 00:32:43.130
this in, in
00:32:43.190 --> 00:32:43.610
chapter
00:32:43.610 --> 00:32:44.090
one, the Rip
00:32:44.090 --> 00:32:44.930
Van Winkle piece,
00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:45.860
that instead
00:32:45.860 --> 00:32:45.920
of
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:46.250
coming from
00:32:46.250 --> 00:32:46.880
the past,
00:32:47.210 --> 00:32:47.480
he had
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:47.840
come from
00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:48.410
the future.
00:32:49.100 --> 00:32:50.360
He had come from 2034
00:32:50.360 --> 00:32:50.480
and
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:50.870
told
00:32:50.870 --> 00:32:51.560
educators
00:32:51.560 --> 00:32:52.460
in 2014,
00:32:52.790 --> 00:32:52.880
Hey
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:53.480
guys, I've been to
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:53.990
the future
00:32:54.590 --> 00:32:54.770
and
00:32:54.770 --> 00:32:55.640
you spent about
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:56.270
$40
00:32:56.270 --> 00:32:56.900
billion
00:32:56.995 --> 00:32:57.275
a year,
00:32:58.670 --> 00:32:59.150
um,
00:32:59.210 --> 00:32:59.510
to
00:32:59.690 --> 00:32:59.900
get
00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:00.170
more
00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:00.290
and
00:33:00.290 --> 00:33:00.830
more digital
00:33:00.830 --> 00:33:01.610
into classrooms.
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:02.060
And
00:33:02.060 --> 00:33:02.390
what you're
00:33:02.390 --> 00:33:02.630
gonna
00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:02.900
see
00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:02.960
is
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:03.410
that the high
00:33:03.410 --> 00:33:04.220
achieving kids,
00:33:04.580 --> 00:33:05.210
they'll do about
00:33:05.210 --> 00:33:05.600
the same,
00:33:06.050 --> 00:33:06.350
but your
00:33:06.350 --> 00:33:06.530
low
00:33:06.530 --> 00:33:06.920
achieving
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:07.310
kids,
00:33:07.580 --> 00:33:08.540
they're gonna tank.
00:33:09.020 --> 00:33:09.500
Like, who would
00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:10.010
buy that?
00:33:10.370 --> 00:33:10.820
Nobody
00:33:10.820 --> 00:33:11.210
would buy
00:33:11.210 --> 00:33:11.480
that if
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:12.080
we knew it
00:33:12.590 --> 00:33:12.740
in
00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:13.123
20
00:33:13.123 --> 00:33:13.505
14,
00:33:13.505 --> 00:33:13.888
20
00:33:13.888 --> 00:33:14.270
15.
00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:14.870
We're
00:33:14.870 --> 00:33:15.560
realizing it
00:33:15.560 --> 00:33:15.830
now
00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:16.363
in 20
00:33:16.363 --> 00:33:16.775
25,
00:33:16.775 --> 00:33:17.600
20 26.
00:33:17.935 --> 00:33:18.155
But
00:33:18.235 --> 00:33:18.515
I think
00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:20.390
that, um, it's
00:33:20.390 --> 00:33:21.170
gonna continue.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:21.620
Earlier
00:33:21.620 --> 00:33:21.800
when
00:33:21.800 --> 00:33:22.100
you asked
00:33:22.100 --> 00:33:22.940
the question about
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:23.450
what
00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:23.990
scares you the
00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:24.260
most,
00:33:24.260 --> 00:33:25.970
I think it's this bifurcation that's
00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:27.290
There was
00:33:27.290 --> 00:33:27.950
an article
00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:28.220
in
00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:28.910
New York Times
00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:29.780
regarding reading
00:33:29.780 --> 00:33:30.160
habits.
00:33:31.520 --> 00:33:31.940
People who
00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:32.600
are reading
00:33:33.350 --> 00:33:33.920
still
00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:34.550
are reading more.
00:33:35.705 --> 00:33:36.155
But the
00:33:36.155 --> 00:33:36.905
number of people who
00:33:36.905 --> 00:33:37.385
didn't read
00:33:37.385 --> 00:33:37.805
a single
00:33:37.805 --> 00:33:38.135
book
00:33:38.165 --> 00:33:38.345
in
00:33:38.345 --> 00:33:38.435
the
00:33:38.435 --> 00:33:39.065
US in
00:33:39.065 --> 00:33:39.725
20, in,
00:33:40.745 --> 00:33:41.795
20, 24, I think it
00:33:41.795 --> 00:33:42.125
was,
00:33:42.275 --> 00:33:42.725
was over
00:33:42.725 --> 00:33:43.385
50%.
00:33:43.925 --> 00:33:44.015
You
00:33:44.015 --> 00:33:44.255
know,
00:33:44.465 --> 00:33:44.615
so
00:33:44.615 --> 00:33:44.915
those of
00:33:44.915 --> 00:33:45.515
us that read,
00:33:45.995 --> 00:33:46.265
read
00:33:46.265 --> 00:33:46.655
more.
00:33:46.775 --> 00:33:46.895
' cause
00:33:46.895 --> 00:33:47.255
there's more
00:33:47.255 --> 00:33:47.315
to
00:33:47.315 --> 00:33:47.615
read.
00:33:48.185 --> 00:33:48.455
Those of
00:33:48.455 --> 00:33:48.575
us
00:33:48.575 --> 00:33:48.905
that don't
00:33:48.905 --> 00:33:49.085
read
00:33:49.085 --> 00:33:49.925
have chosen not to,
00:33:49.925 --> 00:33:51.635
there's this big bifurcation happening
00:33:51.905 --> 00:33:52.085
that's
00:33:52.085 --> 00:33:52.475
gonna
00:33:53.195 --> 00:33:53.525
open
00:33:53.525 --> 00:33:53.615
up
00:33:53.615 --> 00:33:54.245
that inequality
00:33:54.245 --> 00:33:54.695
gap even
00:33:54.695 --> 00:33:54.935
more.
00:33:54.935 --> 00:33:55.025
I
00:34:00.462 --> 00:34:05.232
Bart: So thinking about the future then, if this trend continues, what are long-term implications?
00:34:05.865 --> 00:34:06.105
Frank: There's
00:34:06.105 --> 00:34:06.165
a
00:34:06.165 --> 00:34:06.645
good quote
00:34:06.645 --> 00:34:06.855
from
00:34:06.855 --> 00:34:07.065
a
00:34:07.185 --> 00:34:08.085
superintendent.
00:34:08.283 --> 00:34:08.583
in,
00:34:08.733 --> 00:34:09.213
at the end
00:34:09.213 --> 00:34:09.963
of chapter one,
00:34:09.963 --> 00:34:10.143
where we
00:34:10.143 --> 00:34:10.413
talk
00:34:10.413 --> 00:34:10.743
about
00:34:10.743 --> 00:34:11.733
there's alternative
00:34:11.733 --> 00:34:12.963
paths to this path
00:34:12.963 --> 00:34:13.533
that we're on.
00:34:14.133 --> 00:34:14.553
And
00:34:14.553 --> 00:34:15.243
this particular
00:34:15.243 --> 00:34:16.083
superintendent,
00:34:16.083 --> 00:34:16.353
really
00:34:16.353 --> 00:34:17.013
well regarded,
00:34:17.643 --> 00:34:18.933
she, um,
00:34:19.143 --> 00:34:19.653
was
00:34:19.653 --> 00:34:19.983
like
00:34:19.983 --> 00:34:21.933
the, she got the Technology
00:34:21.933 --> 00:34:22.593
Administrator
00:34:22.593 --> 00:34:22.953
award
00:34:22.953 --> 00:34:23.133
of the
00:34:23.133 --> 00:34:23.613
year
00:34:23.973 --> 00:34:24.813
in California
00:34:24.813 --> 00:34:25.503
a few years back.
00:34:25.743 --> 00:34:25.893
So
00:34:25.893 --> 00:34:26.163
she's
00:34:26.163 --> 00:34:26.493
very
00:34:26.493 --> 00:34:27.213
pro tech,
00:34:27.813 --> 00:34:27.963
but
00:34:27.963 --> 00:34:28.173
she
00:34:28.173 --> 00:34:28.533
said,
00:34:28.533 --> 00:34:28.743
if
00:34:28.743 --> 00:34:28.893
this
00:34:28.893 --> 00:34:29.133
trend
00:34:29.133 --> 00:34:29.948
continues,
00:34:30.843 --> 00:34:31.293
we're gonna go
00:34:31.293 --> 00:34:31.833
obsolete.
00:34:32.613 --> 00:34:32.883
And we're
00:34:32.883 --> 00:34:33.483
really worried
00:34:33.483 --> 00:34:33.693
about when
00:34:33.693 --> 00:34:33.753
we
00:34:33.753 --> 00:34:34.203
first started
00:34:34.203 --> 00:34:34.353
having
00:34:34.353 --> 00:34:34.983
these conversations
00:34:34.983 --> 00:34:35.193
two and
00:34:35.193 --> 00:34:35.373
a half
00:34:35.373 --> 00:34:35.613
years
00:34:35.613 --> 00:34:35.823
ago.
00:34:36.198 --> 00:34:36.348
It
00:34:36.348 --> 00:34:36.498
was
00:34:36.498 --> 00:34:37.308
really regarding
00:34:37.728 --> 00:34:38.268
the place of
00:34:38.268 --> 00:34:38.358
the
00:34:38.358 --> 00:34:38.868
mainstream
00:34:38.868 --> 00:34:39.438
school
00:34:39.812 --> 00:34:40.262
and
00:34:40.322 --> 00:34:41.342
mainstream public school
00:34:41.342 --> 00:34:42.092
and where that's
00:34:42.092 --> 00:34:42.452
going.
00:34:42.572 --> 00:34:42.812
And
00:34:42.812 --> 00:34:42.872
I
00:34:42.872 --> 00:34:43.292
think,
00:34:43.682 --> 00:34:43.772
you
00:34:43.772 --> 00:34:43.892
know,
00:34:43.892 --> 00:34:44.372
coming out
00:34:44.372 --> 00:34:44.912
of COVID in
00:34:44.912 --> 00:34:45.632
particular,
00:34:45.917 --> 00:34:46.787
we're looking at
00:34:47.604 --> 00:34:48.114
virtual
00:34:48.114 --> 00:34:50.664
schools, you know, homeschooling,
00:34:50.909 --> 00:34:51.329
alpha
00:34:51.329 --> 00:34:51.929
schools.
00:34:51.929 --> 00:34:52.079
There's
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:52.259
all
00:34:52.259 --> 00:34:52.829
these schools
00:34:52.829 --> 00:34:52.949
that
00:34:52.949 --> 00:34:53.009
are
00:34:53.009 --> 00:34:53.339
becoming
00:34:53.339 --> 00:34:54.719
alternatives to schools, right?
00:34:55.049 --> 00:34:55.349
We
00:34:55.349 --> 00:34:55.529
feel
00:34:55.529 --> 00:34:55.619
like
00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:55.799
there's
00:34:55.799 --> 00:34:56.819
a really important
00:34:56.819 --> 00:34:58.379
place in, in America
00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:00.329
for the mainstream neighborhood,
00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:02.669
public And
00:35:02.669 --> 00:35:03.149
that's
00:35:03.149 --> 00:35:03.359
what
00:35:03.359 --> 00:35:03.479
I
00:35:03.479 --> 00:35:03.809
see
00:35:03.809 --> 00:35:04.229
as being
00:35:04.229 --> 00:35:04.919
a big concern,
00:35:05.069 --> 00:35:05.309
is
00:35:05.309 --> 00:35:05.609
that the
00:35:05.609 --> 00:35:05.939
more we
00:35:05.969 --> 00:35:06.869
hollow that out,
00:35:07.889 --> 00:35:08.039
the
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:08.399
more that
00:35:08.399 --> 00:35:09.089
it becomes like,
00:35:09.359 --> 00:35:09.599
well, if
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:09.719
we're
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:10.019
gonna go
00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:10.739
to school
00:35:11.759 --> 00:35:11.939
and
00:35:11.939 --> 00:35:12.269
watch
00:35:12.269 --> 00:35:12.959
a screen,
00:35:13.349 --> 00:35:13.499
my
00:35:13.499 --> 00:35:13.799
kid can
00:35:13.799 --> 00:35:14.039
do that
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:14.129
at
00:35:14.129 --> 00:35:14.429
home.
00:35:14.789 --> 00:35:14.999
Why
00:35:14.999 --> 00:35:15.239
send
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:15.779
him to school?
00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:16.529
You know,
00:35:16.919 --> 00:35:17.219
we
00:35:17.219 --> 00:35:18.209
continue hollowing
00:35:18.209 --> 00:35:18.719
that out
00:35:19.169 --> 00:35:19.409
till
00:35:19.409 --> 00:35:19.529
at
00:35:19.529 --> 00:35:19.769
some
00:35:19.769 --> 00:35:19.949
point
00:35:19.949 --> 00:35:20.579
we hit a tipping
00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:20.969
point
00:35:21.089 --> 00:35:21.389
that we
00:35:21.389 --> 00:35:21.599
can't
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.169
get back from.
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:22.499
'cause, you
00:35:22.499 --> 00:35:22.799
know,
00:35:22.919 --> 00:35:23.729
every year
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:26.189
at, if attendance drops, if enrollment
00:35:26.189 --> 00:35:27.329
drops, your funding drops,
00:35:27.509 --> 00:35:27.959
gets harder
00:35:27.959 --> 00:35:28.499
to fund.
00:35:28.934 --> 00:35:29.504
Therefore it gets,
00:35:29.564 --> 00:35:29.774
it's
00:35:29.774 --> 00:35:29.924
like
00:35:29.924 --> 00:35:30.044
you're
00:35:30.044 --> 00:35:30.374
running
00:35:30.374 --> 00:35:30.614
up a
00:35:30.614 --> 00:35:31.154
hill
00:35:31.514 --> 00:35:32.354
backwards.
00:35:32.774 --> 00:35:32.954
And
00:35:32.954 --> 00:35:33.134
so
00:35:33.134 --> 00:35:33.494
I think
00:35:33.494 --> 00:35:33.674
that
00:35:33.674 --> 00:35:34.244
that's what
00:35:34.604 --> 00:35:35.534
is a really
00:35:36.044 --> 00:35:36.974
big cause for
00:35:36.974 --> 00:35:37.484
concern
00:35:37.784 --> 00:35:38.564
down this path
00:35:38.564 --> 00:35:38.864
that we're
00:35:38.974 --> 00:35:39.089
Anjanette McNeely: on.
00:35:39.749 --> 00:35:40.439
Gene Tavernetti: And it's interesting
00:35:40.439 --> 00:35:41.729
how schools.
00:35:42.749 --> 00:35:42.929
are
00:35:42.929 --> 00:35:43.739
in competition.
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:45.466
The, you know, our, mainstream
00:35:45.466 --> 00:35:46.096
public schools
00:35:46.096 --> 00:35:46.876
are in competition
00:35:46.881 --> 00:35:47.041
with
00:35:47.041 --> 00:35:47.481
charters.
00:35:47.626 --> 00:35:49.216
And so they are running,
00:35:49.276 --> 00:35:49.426
you
00:35:49.426 --> 00:35:49.726
know, how
00:35:49.726 --> 00:35:49.936
can
00:35:49.936 --> 00:35:50.176
we
00:35:50.176 --> 00:35:50.716
provide
00:35:50.716 --> 00:35:50.836
what
00:35:50.836 --> 00:35:50.956
the
00:35:50.956 --> 00:35:52.036
charter's providing
00:35:52.156 --> 00:35:52.336
and
00:35:52.336 --> 00:35:52.666
what's a
00:35:52.666 --> 00:35:52.996
charter,
00:35:52.996 --> 00:35:53.896
usually providing
00:35:53.926 --> 00:35:54.556
more tech.
00:35:54.946 --> 00:35:55.546
And
00:35:55.546 --> 00:35:55.966
so
00:35:55.966 --> 00:35:56.416
they get
00:35:56.416 --> 00:35:56.986
onto this
00:35:57.016 --> 00:35:57.976
this treadmill
00:35:58.036 --> 00:35:58.426
and they
00:35:58.426 --> 00:35:58.636
don't know
00:35:58.636 --> 00:35:58.756
how
00:35:58.756 --> 00:35:58.846
to
00:35:58.846 --> 00:35:59.056
get
00:35:59.056 --> 00:35:59.386
off.
00:35:59.506 --> 00:35:59.776
And
00:35:59.776 --> 00:35:59.926
as
00:35:59.926 --> 00:36:00.706
an administrator
00:36:00.706 --> 00:36:01.666
it's hard to,
00:36:02.131 --> 00:36:02.311
to
00:36:02.311 --> 00:36:03.211
back away and say,
00:36:03.211 --> 00:36:03.391
well,
00:36:03.391 --> 00:36:03.991
wait a second,
00:36:03.991 --> 00:36:04.411
maybe we're
00:36:04.411 --> 00:36:04.921
not doing the
00:36:04.921 --> 00:36:05.131
right
00:36:05.131 --> 00:36:05.341
thing.
00:36:05.341 --> 00:36:05.731
Maybe
00:36:05.731 --> 00:36:05.851
all
00:36:05.851 --> 00:36:06.631
these things that I was
00:36:06.631 --> 00:36:07.591
cheerleading for,
00:36:08.071 --> 00:36:08.521
uh,
00:36:08.521 --> 00:36:09.631
weren't quite
00:36:09.751 --> 00:36:10.171
the best
00:36:10.171 --> 00:36:11.311
thing to do for kids.
00:36:11.641 --> 00:36:12.211
So,
00:36:12.241 --> 00:36:12.571
so
00:36:12.571 --> 00:36:13.441
everybody has
00:36:13.441 --> 00:36:13.951
some,
00:36:14.041 --> 00:36:14.431
uh,
00:36:14.461 --> 00:36:15.451
readjustment
00:36:16.111 --> 00:36:17.161
administrators,
00:36:17.161 --> 00:36:18.691
parents thinking as
00:36:18.691 --> 00:36:19.261
Frank talked
00:36:19.261 --> 00:36:19.561
about,
00:36:19.561 --> 00:36:21.061
thinking about what happens at home,
00:36:21.331 --> 00:36:22.171
how we,
00:36:22.201 --> 00:36:22.411
how
00:36:22.411 --> 00:36:22.981
we interact
00:36:22.981 --> 00:36:23.101
with
00:36:23.101 --> 00:36:23.701
our children.
00:36:24.167 --> 00:36:24.227
I
00:36:24.227 --> 00:36:25.457
think we just have to, you
00:36:25.457 --> 00:36:25.667
know,
00:36:25.727 --> 00:36:25.937
eat
00:36:25.937 --> 00:36:26.447
a big piece
00:36:26.447 --> 00:36:27.167
of humble pie
00:36:27.167 --> 00:36:27.257
and
00:36:27.257 --> 00:36:27.407
say,
00:36:27.407 --> 00:36:27.527
we
00:36:27.527 --> 00:36:28.337
made a mistake.
00:36:29.822 --> 00:36:30.302
Bart: Yes.
00:36:30.872 --> 00:36:33.692
You share that learning is fundamentally social.
00:36:34.292 --> 00:36:38.642
So how has device heavy instruction changed the social experience of school?
00:36:39.051 --> 00:36:40.066
Gene Tavernetti: it's just taking it away.
00:36:40.096 --> 00:36:42.916
I mean, you walk into a, you walk into a classroom and everybody's
00:36:42.916 --> 00:36:43.066
got
00:36:43.066 --> 00:36:44.776
headphones on and looking at a screen,
00:36:44.806 --> 00:36:45.286
where's
00:36:45.286 --> 00:36:45.826
the interaction?
00:36:46.824 --> 00:36:47.221
And
00:36:47.221 --> 00:36:48.121
so then,
00:36:48.181 --> 00:36:48.811
uh, I'm
00:36:48.811 --> 00:36:48.961
gonna
00:36:48.961 --> 00:36:49.441
go off on
00:36:49.441 --> 00:36:50.161
a tangent here.
00:36:50.221 --> 00:36:51.241
We could go off, you
00:36:51.241 --> 00:36:51.391
know,
00:36:51.391 --> 00:36:51.601
on
00:36:51.601 --> 00:36:52.261
AI
00:36:52.411 --> 00:36:52.801
to where
00:36:52.801 --> 00:36:53.731
now we get
00:36:53.731 --> 00:36:54.481
interaction with
00:36:54.481 --> 00:36:55.021
ai.
00:36:55.291 --> 00:36:55.681
AI
00:36:55.681 --> 00:36:56.041
can be
00:36:56.041 --> 00:36:56.791
our friends,
00:36:57.211 --> 00:36:57.991
which has been
00:36:57.991 --> 00:36:58.441
very
00:36:58.441 --> 00:36:59.041
scary
00:36:59.131 --> 00:36:59.851
for folks.
00:37:00.211 --> 00:37:01.231
So we
00:37:01.231 --> 00:37:02.101
lose skills.
00:37:02.551 --> 00:37:02.731
We
00:37:02.731 --> 00:37:03.061
don't know
00:37:03.061 --> 00:37:03.211
how
00:37:03.211 --> 00:37:03.301
to
00:37:03.301 --> 00:37:04.141
make friends.
00:37:04.351 --> 00:37:06.361
We don't know how to, to interact
00:37:06.391 --> 00:37:07.291
appropriately.
00:37:07.721 --> 00:37:07.991
all
00:37:07.991 --> 00:37:08.081
of
00:37:08.081 --> 00:37:08.291
those
00:37:08.291 --> 00:37:08.711
things
00:37:08.711 --> 00:37:09.641
contribute
00:37:09.881 --> 00:37:10.511
to the
00:37:10.511 --> 00:37:11.291
answer being
00:37:11.291 --> 00:37:11.951
more tech.
00:37:12.436 --> 00:37:12.616
You
00:37:12.616 --> 00:37:12.736
know,
00:37:12.766 --> 00:37:13.156
we'll
00:37:13.156 --> 00:37:13.366
we'll
00:37:13.486 --> 00:37:14.236
we'll give them some
00:37:14.236 --> 00:37:15.616
interaction with the tech.
00:37:15.925 --> 00:37:16.015
Frank: yeah,
00:37:16.015 --> 00:37:16.435
we'll give 'em an
00:37:16.435 --> 00:37:17.005
AI friend.
00:37:17.365 --> 00:37:17.485
You
00:37:17.485 --> 00:37:17.935
know, there's a,
00:37:17.935 --> 00:37:19.375
there's a couple of examples
00:37:19.375 --> 00:37:19.525
that
00:37:19.525 --> 00:37:19.645
are
00:37:19.645 --> 00:37:19.795
in
00:37:19.795 --> 00:37:19.915
the
00:37:19.915 --> 00:37:20.125
book
00:37:20.125 --> 00:37:20.245
and a
00:37:20.245 --> 00:37:20.785
couple that didn't
00:37:20.785 --> 00:37:21.205
make it,
00:37:21.235 --> 00:37:21.445
uh,
00:37:21.445 --> 00:37:21.655
that
00:37:21.655 --> 00:37:21.775
were
00:37:21.775 --> 00:37:22.075
great.
00:37:22.075 --> 00:37:22.645
Interview,
00:37:22.975 --> 00:37:23.755
interview
00:37:23.815 --> 00:37:24.205
quotes
00:37:24.205 --> 00:37:24.955
from teachers
00:37:25.618 --> 00:37:26.668
the teacher, uh, I
00:37:26.818 --> 00:37:27.118
think a
00:37:27.118 --> 00:37:29.248
Spanish teacher Um, the
00:37:29.248 --> 00:37:29.578
kids
00:37:29.578 --> 00:37:30.808
are on their screens
00:37:31.588 --> 00:37:32.398
and, uh,
00:37:32.398 --> 00:37:33.088
she's six
00:37:33.088 --> 00:37:33.688
feet away
00:37:34.648 --> 00:37:34.978
and they
00:37:34.978 --> 00:37:35.128
will
00:37:35.128 --> 00:37:36.538
send her a message
00:37:36.988 --> 00:37:37.528
on
00:37:37.528 --> 00:37:38.428
the, on
00:37:38.428 --> 00:37:40.018
the, device
00:37:40.438 --> 00:37:40.828
instead
00:37:40.828 --> 00:37:41.848
of just raising the hand and
00:37:41.848 --> 00:37:42.148
asking
00:37:42.148 --> 00:37:42.778
the question.
00:37:43.108 --> 00:37:43.228
She
00:37:43.258 --> 00:37:43.438
said,
00:37:43.438 --> 00:37:43.648
Tim,
00:37:43.648 --> 00:37:43.798
I'm
00:37:43.798 --> 00:37:44.188
right here.
00:37:44.188 --> 00:37:44.278
You
00:37:44.278 --> 00:37:44.728
can ask me the
00:37:44.728 --> 00:37:45.208
question.
00:37:45.598 --> 00:37:46.408
Oh, nevermind.
00:37:47.188 --> 00:37:47.938
And they're
00:37:47.938 --> 00:37:48.958
not comfortable
00:37:49.228 --> 00:37:49.558
having
00:37:49.558 --> 00:37:50.638
that interaction, like
00:37:50.638 --> 00:37:50.908
with the
00:37:50.908 --> 00:37:51.268
adults.
00:37:51.268 --> 00:37:51.448
But
00:37:51.808 --> 00:37:51.898
you
00:37:51.898 --> 00:37:52.138
know, like
00:37:52.138 --> 00:37:53.098
Jean said, you walk into the
00:37:53.098 --> 00:37:53.578
classroom and
00:37:53.578 --> 00:37:53.638
you
00:37:53.638 --> 00:37:54.868
can almost measure
00:37:55.138 --> 00:37:55.678
without even
00:37:55.678 --> 00:37:56.248
looking.
00:37:56.818 --> 00:37:57.028
are
00:37:57.028 --> 00:37:57.928
they on screens or not,
00:37:57.928 --> 00:37:58.318
because of how
00:37:58.378 --> 00:37:58.798
quiet.
00:37:58.798 --> 00:37:58.978
it is.
00:37:59.518 --> 00:37:59.728
a
00:37:59.728 --> 00:38:00.928
lot less interaction.
00:38:01.468 --> 00:38:02.428
And Jonathan, he talked
00:38:02.428 --> 00:38:03.418
about as an anxious generation,
00:38:03.418 --> 00:38:03.568
he's a
00:38:03.568 --> 00:38:04.018
professor
00:38:04.018 --> 00:38:04.108
at
00:38:04.108 --> 00:38:04.918
NYU, right?
00:38:05.488 --> 00:38:05.818
Um,
00:38:05.908 --> 00:38:06.268
how
00:38:06.268 --> 00:38:07.528
those last five minutes
00:38:07.528 --> 00:38:08.638
before class started
00:38:08.968 --> 00:38:09.238
would
00:38:09.238 --> 00:38:09.748
be
00:38:10.318 --> 00:38:10.918
the
00:38:10.978 --> 00:38:11.428
most
00:38:11.428 --> 00:38:11.908
bubbly
00:38:11.908 --> 00:38:12.358
time
00:38:12.358 --> 00:38:12.478
in
00:38:12.478 --> 00:38:13.408
his lectures.
00:38:13.738 --> 00:38:15.688
Everybody's talking to the person next to them, what they
00:38:15.688 --> 00:38:15.958
did on
00:38:15.958 --> 00:38:16.018
the
00:38:16.018 --> 00:38:16.948
weekend or whatever,
00:38:16.948 --> 00:38:17.128
or
00:38:17.428 --> 00:38:17.788
whatever
00:38:17.788 --> 00:38:18.418
test is coming
00:38:18.418 --> 00:38:18.658
up.
00:38:19.018 --> 00:38:19.198
And
00:38:19.198 --> 00:38:19.468
now
00:38:19.468 --> 00:38:20.278
it's the quietest
00:38:20.278 --> 00:38:20.548
time.
00:38:21.033 --> 00:38:21.323
It's
00:38:21.328 --> 00:38:21.358
the
00:38:21.358 --> 00:38:21.988
quietest time
00:38:21.988 --> 00:38:22.138
because
00:38:22.138 --> 00:38:22.498
everybody's on
00:38:22.498 --> 00:38:22.588
their
00:38:22.588 --> 00:38:23.038
phones.
00:38:23.578 --> 00:38:23.758
And
00:38:23.758 --> 00:38:23.848
the
00:38:23.848 --> 00:38:24.268
same thing
00:38:24.268 --> 00:38:24.328
I
00:38:24.328 --> 00:38:24.478
think
00:38:24.478 --> 00:38:24.838
happens
00:38:24.838 --> 00:38:24.928
in
00:38:24.928 --> 00:38:25.378
schools
00:38:25.378 --> 00:38:25.498
that
00:38:25.498 --> 00:38:26.578
allow phones.
00:38:26.956 --> 00:38:27.256
what
00:38:27.256 --> 00:38:27.496
used
00:38:27.496 --> 00:38:27.616
to
00:38:27.616 --> 00:38:27.706
be
00:38:27.706 --> 00:38:27.826
the
00:38:27.826 --> 00:38:28.156
most
00:38:28.156 --> 00:38:28.606
bubbly
00:38:28.606 --> 00:38:29.086
time, the
00:38:29.086 --> 00:38:29.476
most,
00:38:29.566 --> 00:38:29.866
you know,
00:38:29.866 --> 00:38:30.046
the
00:38:30.046 --> 00:38:30.376
most
00:38:30.376 --> 00:38:30.976
interactive
00:38:30.976 --> 00:38:31.276
time,
00:38:31.276 --> 00:38:31.456
the
00:38:31.516 --> 00:38:31.936
periods
00:38:31.936 --> 00:38:32.866
right before,
00:38:33.496 --> 00:38:33.766
right
00:38:33.766 --> 00:38:34.306
before
00:38:34.336 --> 00:38:34.456
a
00:38:34.456 --> 00:38:34.816
class
00:38:34.816 --> 00:38:35.206
started,
00:38:35.206 --> 00:38:35.746
or,
00:38:35.746 --> 00:38:36.766
or, uh, maybe the in the
00:38:36.766 --> 00:38:37.516
passing period
00:38:37.876 --> 00:38:38.086
had
00:38:38.086 --> 00:38:38.626
become very
00:38:38.626 --> 00:38:38.956
quiet.
00:38:39.016 --> 00:38:39.346
Everybody's
00:38:39.346 --> 00:38:39.826
walking
00:38:39.826 --> 00:38:40.096
with their
00:38:40.096 --> 00:38:40.786
head down.
00:38:40.951 --> 00:38:41.311
so the
00:38:41.311 --> 00:38:41.581
social
00:38:41.581 --> 00:38:42.451
interaction piece
00:38:42.451 --> 00:38:43.141
that's being lost
00:38:43.141 --> 00:38:43.231
is
00:38:43.231 --> 00:38:43.441
being
00:38:43.441 --> 00:38:43.711
lost
00:38:43.711 --> 00:38:43.831
in
00:38:43.831 --> 00:38:44.671
the classroom during,
00:38:45.271 --> 00:38:45.571
during
00:38:45.571 --> 00:38:46.441
guided practice, during
00:38:46.501 --> 00:38:47.311
closure, during
00:38:47.311 --> 00:38:47.581
checking
00:38:47.581 --> 00:38:47.701
for
00:38:47.701 --> 00:38:48.781
understanding because
00:38:49.171 --> 00:38:50.341
it's being done by the bot.
00:38:50.441 --> 00:38:50.591
and
00:38:50.591 --> 00:38:50.711
it's
00:38:50.711 --> 00:38:50.921
being
00:38:50.921 --> 00:38:51.551
lost outside of
00:38:51.551 --> 00:38:51.611
the
00:38:51.611 --> 00:38:52.151
classroom as
00:38:52.885 --> 00:38:58.315
Bart: Are there any other things that teachers are telling you about student communication, resilience regulation?
00:38:59.026 --> 00:38:59.236
Frank: Yeah.
00:38:59.236 --> 00:38:59.416
I
00:38:59.416 --> 00:38:59.746
never
00:38:59.746 --> 00:39:00.106
had heard
00:39:00.106 --> 00:39:00.496
the term
00:39:00.496 --> 00:39:00.916
dys reg
00:39:01.216 --> 00:39:02.236
dysregulation
00:39:02.236 --> 00:39:02.656
before
00:39:02.656 --> 00:39:02.986
until
00:39:02.986 --> 00:39:03.286
about
00:39:03.286 --> 00:39:03.466
two
00:39:03.466 --> 00:39:04.096
years ago
00:39:04.606 --> 00:39:04.936
about
00:39:04.936 --> 00:39:05.056
the
00:39:05.056 --> 00:39:06.171
ability to, to
00:39:06.316 --> 00:39:06.556
kind
00:39:06.556 --> 00:39:07.006
of center
00:39:07.006 --> 00:39:07.726
themselves and
00:39:08.026 --> 00:39:10.186
find how to, how to
00:39:10.216 --> 00:39:10.726
behave.
00:39:10.726 --> 00:39:11.656
So definitely
00:39:11.656 --> 00:39:12.879
we've heard that.
00:39:13.054 --> 00:39:13.204
I
00:39:13.204 --> 00:39:13.504
think we
00:39:13.504 --> 00:39:13.684
see
00:39:13.684 --> 00:39:13.774
it
00:39:13.774 --> 00:39:13.984
in our
00:39:13.984 --> 00:39:14.524
programs as
00:39:14.524 --> 00:39:16.144
well, that, that, all
00:39:16.144 --> 00:39:16.264
the
00:39:16.264 --> 00:39:16.654
pieces
00:39:16.654 --> 00:39:16.804
you
00:39:16.804 --> 00:39:17.134
asked
00:39:17.134 --> 00:39:18.094
about are happening.
00:39:18.844 --> 00:39:18.964
Gene Tavernetti: Well,
00:39:18.964 --> 00:39:19.114
and I
00:39:19.114 --> 00:39:19.894
think something else
00:39:19.894 --> 00:39:22.504
that, that, we've been doing for, for quite
00:39:22.504 --> 00:39:25.084
a long time, that the technology has exasperated,
00:39:25.706 --> 00:39:25.856
We
00:39:25.856 --> 00:39:25.946
have
00:39:25.946 --> 00:39:26.006
to
00:39:26.006 --> 00:39:26.186
have a
00:39:26.186 --> 00:39:26.696
program
00:39:26.696 --> 00:39:27.296
for everything.
00:39:28.016 --> 00:39:28.136
The
00:39:28.136 --> 00:39:29.576
kids don't communicate.
00:39:29.576 --> 00:39:29.696
They
00:39:29.696 --> 00:39:30.266
don't, oh,
00:39:30.326 --> 00:39:30.836
SEL
00:39:30.986 --> 00:39:31.316
let's have
00:39:31.316 --> 00:39:31.376
a,
00:39:31.406 --> 00:39:31.766
let's have
00:39:31.766 --> 00:39:32.786
a new program.
00:39:33.146 --> 00:39:34.226
And, uh,
00:39:34.586 --> 00:39:34.976
kids don't
00:39:34.976 --> 00:39:35.126
have
00:39:35.126 --> 00:39:35.756
self-esteem.
00:39:35.756 --> 00:39:35.936
Well,
00:39:35.936 --> 00:39:37.076
we need a new program.
00:39:37.076 --> 00:39:37.556
And so we
00:39:37.556 --> 00:39:37.706
have
00:39:37.706 --> 00:39:37.916
all
00:39:37.916 --> 00:39:38.216
of these
00:39:38.216 --> 00:39:38.816
programs
00:39:38.816 --> 00:39:39.026
that are
00:39:39.026 --> 00:39:40.226
supposed to mitigate
00:39:40.706 --> 00:39:41.066
again,
00:39:41.066 --> 00:39:42.206
the issues that
00:39:42.206 --> 00:39:44.006
are being exasperated by
00:39:44.721 --> 00:39:45.746
the, the,
00:39:45.746 --> 00:39:45.926
uh,
00:39:45.926 --> 00:39:46.916
the technology.
00:39:47.246 --> 00:39:49.046
But we don't go to technology.
00:39:50.036 --> 00:39:50.186
We
00:39:50.186 --> 00:39:50.396
don't
00:39:50.396 --> 00:39:51.776
remove technology as an
00:39:51.776 --> 00:39:52.076
answer.
00:39:52.076 --> 00:39:52.616
We bring more
00:39:52.616 --> 00:39:53.606
technology in.
00:39:54.026 --> 00:39:54.806
And, and
00:39:54.806 --> 00:39:55.466
it's just,
00:39:55.586 --> 00:39:57.326
that's the, again, we're captive.
00:39:57.866 --> 00:39:59.576
Our thinking doesn't move beyond
00:40:00.386 --> 00:40:01.736
Frank: There's a, there's a good chapter in
00:40:01.736 --> 00:40:02.186
the book,
00:40:02.246 --> 00:40:02.546
uh,
00:40:02.546 --> 00:40:02.936
that our,
00:40:03.086 --> 00:40:03.746
our third,
00:40:03.956 --> 00:40:04.586
uh, author
00:40:04.586 --> 00:40:04.976
who's not
00:40:04.976 --> 00:40:05.156
here
00:40:05.156 --> 00:40:05.366
today,
00:40:05.366 --> 00:40:05.456
' cause
00:40:05.456 --> 00:40:05.666
she's
00:40:05.666 --> 00:40:06.176
actually in a
00:40:06.176 --> 00:40:06.626
school,
00:40:07.646 --> 00:40:08.606
again, what I think
00:40:08.606 --> 00:40:09.296
makes us different.
00:40:09.296 --> 00:40:09.626
We're actually
00:40:09.626 --> 00:40:09.746
in
00:40:09.746 --> 00:40:11.066
schools every
00:40:11.066 --> 00:40:11.456
week.
00:40:11.752 --> 00:40:12.052
But
00:40:12.052 --> 00:40:12.352
she
00:40:12.352 --> 00:40:12.562
wrote
00:40:12.562 --> 00:40:12.622
a
00:40:12.622 --> 00:40:13.492
chapter on durable
00:40:13.492 --> 00:40:14.422
skills and
00:40:14.422 --> 00:40:15.352
integrating those
00:40:15.352 --> 00:40:15.622
into
00:40:15.622 --> 00:40:16.282
the lesson design.
00:40:16.897 --> 00:40:18.097
and then to really
00:40:18.127 --> 00:40:18.727
making that be
00:40:18.997 --> 00:40:19.387
not
00:40:19.387 --> 00:40:19.567
an
00:40:19.567 --> 00:40:20.707
add-on program,
00:40:21.067 --> 00:40:21.277
but
00:40:21.277 --> 00:40:21.487
like,
00:40:21.487 --> 00:40:21.877
you teach
00:40:21.877 --> 00:40:22.537
a lesson and
00:40:22.537 --> 00:40:23.347
you integrate
00:40:23.347 --> 00:40:24.457
these skills, right?
00:40:24.457 --> 00:40:24.607
You
00:40:24.607 --> 00:40:25.897
integrate communication,
00:40:26.227 --> 00:40:27.127
collaboration,
00:40:27.127 --> 00:40:28.147
critical thinking.
00:40:28.477 --> 00:40:28.867
It's not
00:40:28.867 --> 00:40:29.497
an aside
00:40:29.497 --> 00:40:29.737
and it's
00:40:29.737 --> 00:40:29.947
not
00:40:29.947 --> 00:40:30.007
a
00:40:30.007 --> 00:40:30.577
program.
00:40:30.577 --> 00:40:31.027
It's something
00:40:31.027 --> 00:40:31.957
you just do
00:40:32.317 --> 00:40:32.527
as
00:40:32.527 --> 00:40:32.857
part of
00:40:32.857 --> 00:40:32.947
your
00:40:32.947 --> 00:40:33.727
lesson design.
00:40:34.462 --> 00:40:34.702
probably
00:40:34.702 --> 00:40:34.792
my
00:40:34.792 --> 00:40:35.422
favorite part of
00:40:35.422 --> 00:40:35.782
the book
00:40:35.782 --> 00:40:35.962
is
00:40:35.962 --> 00:40:36.292
the
00:40:36.712 --> 00:40:36.862
the
00:40:36.862 --> 00:40:37.672
superintendent
00:40:37.672 --> 00:40:38.152
speech
00:40:38.182 --> 00:40:38.872
at the end of
00:40:39.616 --> 00:40:40.066
and
00:40:40.066 --> 00:40:40.126
the
00:40:40.126 --> 00:40:41.086
superintendent kind of
00:40:41.716 --> 00:40:42.736
is compared
00:40:43.036 --> 00:40:43.186
to
00:40:43.186 --> 00:40:44.116
a superintendent
00:40:44.326 --> 00:40:45.166
in the prologue
00:40:45.166 --> 00:40:45.286
of
00:40:45.286 --> 00:40:45.766
the book,
00:40:46.156 --> 00:40:46.456
who
00:40:46.456 --> 00:40:46.666
was
00:40:47.086 --> 00:40:47.266
the
00:40:47.266 --> 00:40:48.886
gung ho in 2014.
00:40:49.156 --> 00:40:49.306
The
00:40:49.306 --> 00:40:49.546
setting
00:40:49.546 --> 00:40:50.176
is 2014
00:40:50.176 --> 00:40:50.776
for the prologue.
00:40:51.121 --> 00:40:52.251
Very gung-ho, very
00:40:52.256 --> 00:40:52.606
like,
00:40:52.606 --> 00:40:52.726
you
00:40:52.726 --> 00:40:52.816
know,
00:40:52.816 --> 00:40:53.266
let's get
00:40:53.266 --> 00:40:53.746
this,
00:40:54.106 --> 00:40:54.316
let's
00:40:54.316 --> 00:40:54.466
get
00:40:54.466 --> 00:40:54.616
this,
00:40:54.616 --> 00:40:54.706
we
00:40:54.706 --> 00:40:54.856
gotta
00:40:54.856 --> 00:40:55.186
get a screen
00:40:55.186 --> 00:40:55.396
in front
00:40:55.396 --> 00:40:55.906
of every kid.
00:40:56.626 --> 00:40:56.896
The
00:40:56.896 --> 00:40:57.496
superintendent
00:40:57.496 --> 00:40:57.556
in
00:40:57.556 --> 00:40:58.366
2034,
00:40:58.366 --> 00:40:59.386
which is the, which
00:40:59.386 --> 00:41:00.046
is where the epilogue
00:41:00.046 --> 00:41:01.066
is, says, we're not gonna do that.
00:41:01.696 --> 00:41:02.896
We're gonna dial back.
00:41:02.896 --> 00:41:03.886
We're gonna use 'em when, when
00:41:03.886 --> 00:41:04.186
we need.
00:41:04.186 --> 00:41:04.996
' 'em, But
00:41:04.996 --> 00:41:05.086
they're
00:41:05.086 --> 00:41:06.076
not gonna dominate our lives.
00:41:06.076 --> 00:41:07.636
We don't like what we're seeing with our kids.
00:41:07.924 --> 00:41:08.014
And
00:41:08.014 --> 00:41:08.104
he
00:41:08.104 --> 00:41:11.224
talks about durable skills and communication and collaboration and all of that.
00:41:11.944 --> 00:41:15.304
And, and the super fictional superintendent says, um,
00:41:15.567 --> 00:41:17.307
not that long ago, computer science
00:41:17.307 --> 00:41:18.387
majors were like
00:41:18.387 --> 00:41:18.507
the
00:41:18.507 --> 00:41:19.227
exploding
00:41:19.227 --> 00:41:19.797
major.
00:41:19.947 --> 00:41:20.427
Right?
00:41:20.457 --> 00:41:20.757
And
00:41:20.877 --> 00:41:21.297
colleges
00:41:21.297 --> 00:41:22.047
across the country,
00:41:22.677 --> 00:41:22.887
some
00:41:22.887 --> 00:41:22.977
of
00:41:22.977 --> 00:41:23.097
those
00:41:23.097 --> 00:41:23.277
kids
00:41:23.277 --> 00:41:24.207
can't find a job now
00:41:24.567 --> 00:41:25.347
because AI has
00:41:25.347 --> 00:41:25.587
taken
00:41:25.677 --> 00:41:25.827
that
00:41:25.827 --> 00:41:26.097
away,
00:41:26.097 --> 00:41:26.367
right?
00:41:26.607 --> 00:41:26.757
We
00:41:26.757 --> 00:41:26.907
need
00:41:26.907 --> 00:41:27.687
to make the kids
00:41:27.687 --> 00:41:28.947
durable themselves.
00:41:29.187 --> 00:41:29.307
And
00:41:29.307 --> 00:41:29.427
it's
00:41:29.427 --> 00:41:29.697
not so
00:41:29.697 --> 00:41:30.477
much the content,
00:41:30.477 --> 00:41:30.897
it's not so much
00:41:30.897 --> 00:41:31.527
the program
00:41:31.737 --> 00:41:32.247
It's having
00:41:32.247 --> 00:41:33.207
those skills
00:41:33.447 --> 00:41:33.657
where
00:41:33.657 --> 00:41:33.957
they
00:41:33.957 --> 00:41:34.377
get to
00:41:34.377 --> 00:41:34.917
adapt
00:41:34.917 --> 00:41:35.037
and
00:41:35.037 --> 00:41:35.607
interact
00:41:35.607 --> 00:41:35.697
and
00:41:35.697 --> 00:41:36.387
communicate and
00:41:36.387 --> 00:41:37.047
collaborate.
00:41:37.377 --> 00:41:37.707
That
00:41:37.707 --> 00:41:37.887
is
00:41:37.887 --> 00:41:38.277
missing.
00:41:38.277 --> 00:41:38.367
And
00:41:38.367 --> 00:41:39.267
it's not bringing in,
00:41:39.567 --> 00:41:39.807
you know,
00:41:39.807 --> 00:41:40.077
let's
00:41:40.077 --> 00:41:40.317
add
00:41:40.317 --> 00:41:40.557
on
00:41:40.557 --> 00:41:40.707
an
00:41:40.707 --> 00:41:41.127
SEL
00:41:41.127 --> 00:41:41.547
program
00:41:41.547 --> 00:41:41.997
or whatever.
00:41:41.997 --> 00:41:42.777
It's, let's
00:41:42.837 --> 00:41:43.407
integrate
00:41:43.407 --> 00:41:43.497
it
00:41:43.497 --> 00:41:44.877
into what the kids are doing every day.
00:41:45.207 --> 00:41:45.537
Very
00:41:45.537 --> 00:41:45.927
difficult
00:41:45.927 --> 00:41:46.047
to
00:41:46.047 --> 00:41:47.007
do if they're on screens
00:41:47.007 --> 00:41:47.787
three or four hours a
00:41:47.787 --> 00:41:47.997
day.
00:41:48.987 --> 00:41:54.567
Bart: So if you were advising a superintendent tomorrow, what's the first move toward balance
00:41:55.092 --> 00:41:56.472
Gene Tavernetti: by digital captives?
00:41:57.196 --> 00:41:57.556
I, say
00:41:57.556 --> 00:41:57.646
it
00:41:57.646 --> 00:41:57.886
as a
00:41:57.886 --> 00:41:59.866
joke, but you know, as Frank said,
00:41:59.896 --> 00:42:00.796
this, is
00:42:00.826 --> 00:42:01.066
what's
00:42:01.066 --> 00:42:02.476
different about this book
00:42:02.566 --> 00:42:03.346
is that
00:42:03.406 --> 00:42:04.306
the three of us
00:42:04.306 --> 00:42:04.936
who were
00:42:04.936 --> 00:42:05.626
involved in this
00:42:05.626 --> 00:42:05.986
book.
00:42:06.346 --> 00:42:08.686
We're actually working in schools
00:42:09.076 --> 00:42:09.436
in
00:42:09.436 --> 00:42:09.556
the
00:42:09.556 --> 00:42:10.126
aughts.
00:42:10.306 --> 00:42:10.906
I never said
00:42:10.906 --> 00:42:11.056
that
00:42:11.056 --> 00:42:11.446
before
00:42:11.476 --> 00:42:11.626
in
00:42:11.626 --> 00:42:12.316
the aughts.
00:42:12.496 --> 00:42:12.766
We,
00:42:12.826 --> 00:42:12.976
We,
00:42:12.976 --> 00:42:13.096
were
00:42:13.096 --> 00:42:14.446
working and seeing this,
00:42:14.446 --> 00:42:14.926
seeing
00:42:14.926 --> 00:42:17.236
this work, seeing, seeing,
00:42:17.296 --> 00:42:17.596
uh,
00:42:17.596 --> 00:42:17.926
what we
00:42:17.926 --> 00:42:18.196
talked
00:42:18.196 --> 00:42:18.376
about
00:42:18.376 --> 00:42:18.976
actually
00:42:18.976 --> 00:42:19.486
doing
00:42:19.486 --> 00:42:19.936
this work,
00:42:20.056 --> 00:42:20.326
you
00:42:20.326 --> 00:42:21.916
know, that I'd be, you know
00:42:21.976 --> 00:42:22.366
Frank
00:42:22.396 --> 00:42:22.636
used
00:42:22.636 --> 00:42:24.796
to you'd be at, be in your district doing,
00:42:24.826 --> 00:42:25.246
doing that
00:42:25.246 --> 00:42:25.576
work.
00:42:25.876 --> 00:42:27.166
So we know that
00:42:27.346 --> 00:42:27.526
it's
00:42:27.526 --> 00:42:28.096
not enough to
00:42:28.096 --> 00:42:29.356
identify the problem.
00:42:29.896 --> 00:42:30.016
You
00:42:30.016 --> 00:42:30.796
know, what, what can
00:42:30.796 --> 00:42:30.916
we
00:42:30.916 --> 00:42:31.426
do about
00:42:31.426 --> 00:42:31.516
it?
00:42:31.996 --> 00:42:32.206
It's
00:42:32.206 --> 00:42:32.596
gonna be
00:42:32.596 --> 00:42:32.776
as
00:42:32.776 --> 00:42:33.466
difficult
00:42:33.526 --> 00:42:33.646
to
00:42:33.646 --> 00:42:34.066
get out
00:42:34.066 --> 00:42:34.246
of the
00:42:34.246 --> 00:42:34.726
problem
00:42:34.726 --> 00:42:34.906
as
00:42:34.906 --> 00:42:34.996
it
00:42:34.996 --> 00:42:35.176
was
00:42:35.176 --> 00:42:35.446
easy
00:42:35.446 --> 00:42:36.166
to get in.
00:42:36.646 --> 00:42:37.216
But
00:42:37.516 --> 00:42:37.756
there
00:42:37.756 --> 00:42:38.506
is a roadmap,
00:42:38.746 --> 00:42:38.926
and
00:42:38.926 --> 00:42:39.016
I
00:42:39.016 --> 00:42:39.256
think
00:42:39.256 --> 00:42:39.646
that's,
00:42:39.646 --> 00:42:39.946
that's
00:42:39.946 --> 00:42:40.546
the power
00:42:40.546 --> 00:42:41.146
of, of this
00:42:41.146 --> 00:42:41.356
book.
00:42:41.356 --> 00:42:41.446
There
00:42:41.446 --> 00:42:41.596
are
00:42:41.596 --> 00:42:42.916
so many folks,
00:42:43.306 --> 00:42:43.606
in
00:42:43.606 --> 00:42:43.816
the
00:42:44.026 --> 00:42:44.836
consulting
00:42:44.836 --> 00:42:46.126
business who
00:42:46.126 --> 00:42:49.036
like to go in and walk around and
00:42:49.036 --> 00:42:49.516
say, ah, you
00:42:49.516 --> 00:42:50.176
need to do this, you
00:42:50.176 --> 00:42:50.386
need to
00:42:50.386 --> 00:42:50.506
do
00:42:50.506 --> 00:42:50.866
that,
00:42:50.926 --> 00:42:51.106
but
00:42:51.106 --> 00:42:51.916
how do you do it?
00:42:52.276 --> 00:42:52.456
And
00:42:52.456 --> 00:42:52.516
I
00:42:52.516 --> 00:42:53.086
think that's
00:42:53.086 --> 00:42:53.386
a big
00:42:53.386 --> 00:42:53.806
difference
00:42:53.806 --> 00:42:54.796
in, in, this book.
00:42:55.696 --> 00:42:55.906
Frank: Yeah, I
00:42:55.906 --> 00:42:56.116
think
00:42:56.116 --> 00:42:56.236
we
00:42:56.236 --> 00:42:57.796
spent, we spend basically
00:42:57.796 --> 00:42:58.696
the intro
00:42:58.696 --> 00:42:58.846
and
00:42:58.846 --> 00:42:59.266
chapter
00:42:59.266 --> 00:42:59.596
one
00:42:59.596 --> 00:42:59.956
presenting
00:42:59.956 --> 00:43:00.526
the problem
00:43:00.850 --> 00:43:01.060
and
00:43:01.060 --> 00:43:01.420
then,
00:43:01.420 --> 00:43:02.050
uh, two
00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:02.260
through
00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:02.710
six
00:43:02.710 --> 00:43:02.860
how
00:43:02.860 --> 00:43:02.980
to,
00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:03.580
how to get
00:43:03.580 --> 00:43:05.170
out of that, And
00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:05.890
so so
00:43:05.890 --> 00:43:06.130
yeah,
00:43:06.130 --> 00:43:06.340
read
00:43:06.340 --> 00:43:06.430
the
00:43:06.430 --> 00:43:06.760
book
00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:07.000
would
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:07.210
be the
00:43:07.210 --> 00:43:07.450
first
00:43:07.450 --> 00:43:07.540
thing.
00:43:07.540 --> 00:43:07.660
But
00:43:07.660 --> 00:43:07.720
I
00:43:07.720 --> 00:43:07.960
think
00:43:08.260 --> 00:43:08.770
secondly, it
00:43:08.770 --> 00:43:08.860
would
00:43:08.860 --> 00:43:08.920
be
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:09.130
like,
00:43:09.340 --> 00:43:09.490
let's
00:43:09.490 --> 00:43:09.820
go to your
00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:10.300
classrooms.
00:43:10.570 --> 00:43:10.720
Let's
00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:10.840
go
00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:11.080
walk
00:43:11.080 --> 00:43:11.380
20
00:43:11.380 --> 00:43:12.580
classrooms randomly
00:43:13.150 --> 00:43:13.300
and
00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:14.230
let's just look
00:43:14.230 --> 00:43:14.500
at
00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:15.820
how engaged are
00:43:15.820 --> 00:43:16.215
the students
00:43:17.740 --> 00:43:18.040
with
00:43:18.040 --> 00:43:18.400
only
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:18.640
one
00:43:18.640 --> 00:43:19.150
variable?
00:43:19.150 --> 00:43:19.330
Are
00:43:19.330 --> 00:43:19.480
they
00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:20.110
on screens or
00:43:20.165 --> 00:43:20.365
not?
00:43:21.040 --> 00:43:21.160
And
00:43:21.160 --> 00:43:21.310
what
00:43:21.310 --> 00:43:21.400
you're
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:21.610
gonna
00:43:21.610 --> 00:43:21.760
see
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:21.880
is
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:21.970
the
00:43:21.970 --> 00:43:22.510
more they're on
00:43:22.510 --> 00:43:22.900
screens,
00:43:22.900 --> 00:43:23.470
the less engaged.
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:24.640
um,
00:43:24.700 --> 00:43:25.060
and I don't
00:43:25.060 --> 00:43:25.180
need
00:43:25.180 --> 00:43:25.630
a, you
00:43:25.630 --> 00:43:25.840
know,
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:26.080
a
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:26.710
double
00:43:26.710 --> 00:43:26.950
blind
00:43:26.950 --> 00:43:27.520
experiment
00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:27.640
for
00:43:27.640 --> 00:43:27.790
that.
00:43:27.790 --> 00:43:27.970
We can
00:43:27.970 --> 00:43:28.180
just go
00:43:28.180 --> 00:43:28.300
and
00:43:28.300 --> 00:43:28.510
walk
00:43:28.510 --> 00:43:28.690
into
00:43:28.690 --> 00:43:28.900
20
00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:29.560
classrooms, or probably
00:43:29.560 --> 00:43:30.130
any school in
00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:30.190
the
00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:30.640
country
00:43:31.120 --> 00:43:31.450
that,
00:43:31.450 --> 00:43:31.780
any
00:43:32.620 --> 00:43:33.280
mainstream public
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:33.580
school in the
00:43:33.580 --> 00:43:34.120
country that,
00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:35.755
purports
00:43:35.755 --> 00:43:35.860
to
00:43:35.860 --> 00:43:35.950
be
00:43:35.950 --> 00:43:36.550
balanced
00:43:36.940 --> 00:43:37.810
and we would see it.
00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:42.730
Bart: So what does healthy intentional tech integration actually look like then?
00:43:43.294 --> 00:43:43.654
Frank: that's a good
00:43:43.654 --> 00:43:44.104
question.
00:43:44.104 --> 00:43:44.164
We
00:43:44.164 --> 00:43:44.614
were just having
00:43:44.614 --> 00:43:44.704
a
00:43:44.704 --> 00:43:45.304
conversation
00:43:45.304 --> 00:43:46.714
yesterday actually with,
00:43:46.714 --> 00:43:47.284
uh,
00:43:47.314 --> 00:43:47.944
regarding
00:43:47.944 --> 00:43:48.184
how to
00:43:48.184 --> 00:43:49.504
use AI to
00:43:49.504 --> 00:43:50.344
help us write,
00:43:50.374 --> 00:43:50.824
um,
00:43:50.914 --> 00:43:51.449
lessons.
00:43:52.084 --> 00:43:52.384
that
00:43:52.384 --> 00:43:54.574
integrate, collaboration, communication And everything
00:43:54.574 --> 00:43:54.814
else.
00:43:55.174 --> 00:43:56.064
It's not saying,
00:43:56.854 --> 00:43:57.144
I'll
00:43:57.144 --> 00:43:57.224
start
00:43:57.224 --> 00:43:57.384
by
00:43:57.384 --> 00:43:57.799
saying, what it's
00:43:57.799 --> 00:43:58.189
not,
00:43:58.279 --> 00:43:58.609
Um,
00:43:58.669 --> 00:43:58.879
it's
00:43:58.879 --> 00:43:59.239
not
00:43:59.239 --> 00:43:59.419
like
00:43:59.419 --> 00:43:59.869
taking the
00:44:00.469 --> 00:44:01.099
Chromebooks away.
00:44:01.459 --> 00:44:01.609
You
00:44:01.609 --> 00:44:01.879
know, it's
00:44:01.879 --> 00:44:02.119
not
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:02.419
that
00:44:02.569 --> 00:44:02.719
the
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:03.349
kiddos are gonna
00:44:03.349 --> 00:44:03.499
need
00:44:03.499 --> 00:44:04.399
'em, they're gonna need
00:44:04.399 --> 00:44:04.519
to
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:04.639
be
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:05.149
able to
00:44:05.179 --> 00:44:05.419
every
00:44:05.419 --> 00:44:05.569
day
00:44:05.569 --> 00:44:05.719
we
00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:05.899
use
00:44:05.899 --> 00:44:06.799
it, we use email.
00:44:07.189 --> 00:44:07.369
We
00:44:07.369 --> 00:44:07.519
do,
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:07.969
fa uh,
00:44:07.999 --> 00:44:08.299
video
00:44:08.299 --> 00:44:08.689
conferences.
00:44:08.689 --> 00:44:09.289
We're using technology
00:44:09.289 --> 00:44:09.799
right now.
00:44:09.799 --> 00:44:10.099
Right.
00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:10.999
Um,
00:44:11.059 --> 00:44:11.119
we're
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:11.299
gonna
00:44:11.299 --> 00:44:11.479
put
00:44:11.479 --> 00:44:11.659
this
00:44:11.659 --> 00:44:12.289
out on social
00:44:12.289 --> 00:44:12.649
media
00:44:12.949 --> 00:44:13.159
so
00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:14.029
we know that we need
00:44:14.029 --> 00:44:14.749
to use
00:44:14.839 --> 00:44:15.559
the devices.
00:44:15.889 --> 00:44:16.669
What healthy
00:44:16.669 --> 00:44:17.119
is,
00:44:17.299 --> 00:44:17.479
it's
00:44:17.479 --> 00:44:18.244
not the default.
00:44:18.949 --> 00:44:19.129
The
00:44:19.129 --> 00:44:19.729
default
00:44:19.729 --> 00:44:20.209
is the
00:44:20.209 --> 00:44:21.289
human interaction.
00:44:21.649 --> 00:44:22.099
So I'd
00:44:22.099 --> 00:44:22.639
be looking at
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:22.669
a
00:44:22.669 --> 00:44:23.119
classroom
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:23.209
at
00:44:23.209 --> 00:44:23.269
the
00:44:23.269 --> 00:44:23.989
elementary level,
00:44:23.989 --> 00:44:24.139
let's
00:44:24.139 --> 00:44:24.409
say
00:44:24.885 --> 00:44:25.245
you know,
00:44:25.275 --> 00:44:25.395
the
00:44:25.395 --> 00:44:25.725
kids
00:44:25.725 --> 00:44:25.845
are
00:44:25.845 --> 00:44:26.115
not
00:44:26.115 --> 00:44:26.355
on
00:44:26.355 --> 00:44:26.445
it
00:44:26.445 --> 00:44:26.715
more
00:44:26.715 --> 00:44:27.075
than
00:44:27.435 --> 00:44:28.005
10%
00:44:28.005 --> 00:44:28.065
of
00:44:28.065 --> 00:44:28.545
the time
00:44:28.545 --> 00:44:28.785
in the
00:44:28.785 --> 00:44:29.715
primary grades.
00:44:30.255 --> 00:44:30.495
There's
00:44:30.495 --> 00:44:31.215
actually, in the
00:44:31.215 --> 00:44:32.145
superintendent speech,
00:44:32.145 --> 00:44:32.805
in chapter six,
00:44:33.165 --> 00:44:33.285
he
00:44:33.285 --> 00:44:33.555
gives
00:44:33.555 --> 00:44:34.605
this theoretical,
00:44:35.025 --> 00:44:35.325
like
00:44:35.325 --> 00:44:36.315
graduated,
00:44:36.315 --> 00:44:36.795
uh,
00:44:36.855 --> 00:44:37.755
digital model
00:44:38.175 --> 00:44:38.685
Where
00:44:39.675 --> 00:44:39.855
in
00:44:39.855 --> 00:44:40.815
kindergarten, first grade,
00:44:40.815 --> 00:44:41.085
second
00:44:41.085 --> 00:44:41.385
grade.
00:44:41.595 --> 00:44:43.095
Kids aren't on, but like 10,
00:44:43.095 --> 00:44:43.965
20% of the time,
00:44:44.385 --> 00:44:44.565
by
00:44:44.565 --> 00:44:45.525
the time you get to high school,
00:44:45.555 --> 00:44:46.545
maybe 40% of the
00:44:46.545 --> 00:44:46.785
time,
00:44:47.085 --> 00:44:47.295
but
00:44:47.325 --> 00:44:48.195
it's all
00:44:49.065 --> 00:44:50.745
always less than the contact.
00:44:50.745 --> 00:44:54.030
They're having human to they can get
00:44:54.030 --> 00:44:54.540
the screens at
00:44:54.540 --> 00:44:54.900
home.
00:44:55.410 --> 00:44:55.560
They
00:44:55.560 --> 00:44:56.190
shouldn't, but they
00:44:56.190 --> 00:44:56.640
can.
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:58.355
What they can't get at home, at,
00:44:58.530 --> 00:44:59.010
at home
00:44:59.010 --> 00:44:59.310
is
00:44:59.520 --> 00:44:59.730
the
00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:00.900
the interaction
00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:01.780
with 29 classmates.
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:02.790
Right,
00:45:02.790 --> 00:45:02.940
They
00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:03.270
can't
00:45:03.270 --> 00:45:03.480
get
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:03.720
that.
00:45:03.720 --> 00:45:04.080
So that's
00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:04.140
a
00:45:04.140 --> 00:45:04.350
part
00:45:04.350 --> 00:45:04.560
that
00:45:04.950 --> 00:45:05.190
I think
00:45:05.190 --> 00:45:05.460
would be
00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:05.700
a
00:45:05.705 --> 00:45:06.700
a key piece in the balance,
00:45:06.915 --> 00:45:07.035
Gene Tavernetti: you
00:45:07.035 --> 00:45:07.785
know, and, and
00:45:07.785 --> 00:45:08.625
many times,
00:45:08.625 --> 00:45:09.195
uh,
00:45:09.375 --> 00:45:09.585
as
00:45:09.585 --> 00:45:10.215
administrators
00:45:10.215 --> 00:45:10.935
we're afraid
00:45:10.935 --> 00:45:11.085
to
00:45:11.085 --> 00:45:11.415
make these
00:45:11.415 --> 00:45:11.865
changes.
00:45:11.865 --> 00:45:12.135
What's
00:45:12.135 --> 00:45:12.615
gonna happen
00:45:12.615 --> 00:45:13.035
if we do it?
00:45:13.575 --> 00:45:13.875
You know,
00:45:13.875 --> 00:45:14.055
when
00:45:14.055 --> 00:45:14.745
the kids,
00:45:15.135 --> 00:45:15.555
when
00:45:15.735 --> 00:45:15.945
we
00:45:15.945 --> 00:45:17.025
have convinced a
00:45:17.025 --> 00:45:17.385
teacher
00:45:17.385 --> 00:45:18.075
to try
00:45:18.075 --> 00:45:18.165
a
00:45:18.165 --> 00:45:18.855
lesson without
00:45:18.855 --> 00:45:19.455
screens,
00:45:19.845 --> 00:45:20.055
it's
00:45:20.055 --> 00:45:20.775
almost like a sigh
00:45:20.775 --> 00:45:20.895
of
00:45:20.895 --> 00:45:21.375
relief.
00:45:21.435 --> 00:45:21.555
The
00:45:21.555 --> 00:45:22.845
kids are so happy
00:45:23.205 --> 00:45:23.655
not
00:45:23.655 --> 00:45:23.805
to
00:45:23.805 --> 00:45:24.555
be on
00:45:24.915 --> 00:45:25.095
the
00:45:25.095 --> 00:45:25.815
Chromebook
00:45:25.935 --> 00:45:26.145
all
00:45:26.145 --> 00:45:26.685
period.
00:45:26.955 --> 00:45:27.795
Or a big part of,
00:45:27.855 --> 00:45:27.975
a
00:45:27.975 --> 00:45:28.185
big
00:45:28.185 --> 00:45:28.425
part
00:45:28.425 --> 00:45:28.485
of
00:45:28.515 --> 00:45:28.575
the
00:45:28.605 --> 00:45:28.965
period.
00:45:28.995 --> 00:45:29.145
They
00:45:29.145 --> 00:45:29.595
miss it.
00:45:30.225 --> 00:45:30.765
They miss it.
00:45:30.765 --> 00:45:31.155
And, And,
00:45:31.155 --> 00:45:31.425
that's
00:45:31.425 --> 00:45:32.655
that transformational
00:45:33.345 --> 00:45:33.795
things that
00:45:33.795 --> 00:45:33.885
we're
00:45:33.885 --> 00:45:34.245
talking
00:45:34.245 --> 00:45:34.635
about.
00:45:34.635 --> 00:45:34.875
And,
00:45:34.875 --> 00:45:35.055
and
00:45:35.055 --> 00:45:36.375
we learn from other people
00:45:36.375 --> 00:45:36.495
and
00:45:36.495 --> 00:45:36.825
we need
00:45:36.825 --> 00:45:37.185
to have
00:45:37.185 --> 00:45:37.425
that,
00:45:37.695 --> 00:45:37.845
to
00:45:37.845 --> 00:45:38.265
have that
00:45:38.265 --> 00:45:38.985
contact.
00:45:39.315 --> 00:45:39.615
We
00:45:39.615 --> 00:45:40.335
are, um,
00:45:41.055 --> 00:45:41.265
uh,
00:45:41.295 --> 00:45:41.445
we're
00:45:41.445 --> 00:45:41.835
stealing
00:45:41.835 --> 00:45:42.135
that.
00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:42.760
we
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:42.940
just
00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:43.060
have
00:45:43.060 --> 00:45:43.150
to
00:45:43.150 --> 00:45:43.330
have
00:45:43.330 --> 00:45:43.750
some,
00:45:43.750 --> 00:45:44.955
some courage to try things.
00:45:45.925 --> 00:45:46.045
Frank: I
00:45:46.045 --> 00:45:46.165
was
00:45:46.165 --> 00:45:46.315
in
00:45:46.315 --> 00:45:46.705
a in
00:45:46.705 --> 00:45:48.025
a math classroom,
00:45:48.595 --> 00:45:48.865
an
00:45:48.865 --> 00:45:49.465
alternative
00:45:49.525 --> 00:45:50.455
education site.
00:45:50.515 --> 00:45:50.975
Um,
00:45:51.685 --> 00:45:53.695
kids are used to just being on the right?
00:45:53.695 --> 00:45:55.435
That's, that's the nature
00:45:55.435 --> 00:45:56.125
of an alternative
00:45:56.125 --> 00:45:56.515
ed site
00:45:56.515 --> 00:45:56.755
a lot
00:45:56.755 --> 00:45:56.905
of the
00:45:58.195 --> 00:45:58.345
And
00:45:58.345 --> 00:45:58.465
we
00:45:58.465 --> 00:45:58.855
convinced
00:45:58.855 --> 00:45:59.575
the teacher to try
00:45:59.575 --> 00:45:59.725
out
00:45:59.755 --> 00:45:59.875
a
00:45:59.875 --> 00:46:00.175
math
00:46:00.175 --> 00:46:00.535
lesson
00:46:00.565 --> 00:46:00.955
just six
00:46:00.955 --> 00:46:01.375
kids
00:46:01.855 --> 00:46:02.005
in
00:46:02.005 --> 00:46:02.875
the class.
00:46:03.055 --> 00:46:03.205
And
00:46:03.205 --> 00:46:03.445
they,
00:46:03.595 --> 00:46:03.715
you
00:46:03.715 --> 00:46:03.985
know,
00:46:04.015 --> 00:46:04.255
she
00:46:04.255 --> 00:46:05.095
taught the lesson.
00:46:05.095 --> 00:46:05.695
She had
00:46:05.700 --> 00:46:05.935
a, a
00:46:05.935 --> 00:46:06.445
hook
00:46:06.445 --> 00:46:06.685
that
00:46:06.685 --> 00:46:07.435
connected to
00:46:07.435 --> 00:46:07.975
real life
00:46:07.975 --> 00:46:08.395
learning.
00:46:08.395 --> 00:46:09.385
She had an objective,
00:46:09.385 --> 00:46:09.745
she
00:46:10.135 --> 00:46:10.405
taught
00:46:10.405 --> 00:46:10.525
the
00:46:10.525 --> 00:46:11.095
big idea.
00:46:11.125 --> 00:46:14.425
I think it was like computing simple Yeah,
00:46:14.485 --> 00:46:14.635
that's
00:46:14.635 --> 00:46:14.755
what
00:46:14.755 --> 00:46:14.815
it
00:46:14.815 --> 00:46:14.995
was.
00:46:14.995 --> 00:46:15.085
And
00:46:15.085 --> 00:46:15.205
it
00:46:15.205 --> 00:46:15.685
was, the hook
00:46:15.685 --> 00:46:16.225
was like,
00:46:16.225 --> 00:46:16.855
if you have money in
00:46:16.855 --> 00:46:16.915
the
00:46:16.915 --> 00:46:18.445
bank, uh, what do you
00:46:18.445 --> 00:46:18.715
have
00:46:19.165 --> 00:46:19.645
2%
00:46:19.645 --> 00:46:20.425
interest or 4%
00:46:21.205 --> 00:46:21.445
Uh,
00:46:21.475 --> 00:46:21.625
and
00:46:21.625 --> 00:46:21.925
then she
00:46:21.925 --> 00:46:22.435
modeled
00:46:22.435 --> 00:46:22.525
and
00:46:22.525 --> 00:46:22.615
the
00:46:22.615 --> 00:46:23.035
kids did
00:46:23.035 --> 00:46:23.335
guided
00:46:23.335 --> 00:46:23.725
practice
00:46:23.725 --> 00:46:23.995
using
00:46:23.995 --> 00:46:24.835
the whiteboards from
00:46:24.835 --> 00:46:25.765
2005
00:46:26.035 --> 00:46:26.965
or prior to,
00:46:27.279 --> 00:46:27.612
and
00:46:27.612 --> 00:46:27.762
at
00:46:27.762 --> 00:46:27.882
the
00:46:27.882 --> 00:46:28.032
end
00:46:28.032 --> 00:46:28.092
of
00:46:28.092 --> 00:46:28.182
the
00:46:28.182 --> 00:46:28.602
lesson,
00:46:28.602 --> 00:46:28.812
we're
00:46:28.812 --> 00:46:29.022
gonna
00:46:29.022 --> 00:46:29.202
sit
00:46:29.202 --> 00:46:29.472
down and
00:46:29.472 --> 00:46:29.982
debrief the
00:46:29.982 --> 00:46:30.312
lesson.
00:46:30.312 --> 00:46:30.462
And
00:46:30.462 --> 00:46:30.942
the student,
00:46:31.555 --> 00:46:31.915
had
00:46:31.915 --> 00:46:32.305
walked
00:46:32.305 --> 00:46:33.385
out and walked back in
00:46:33.895 --> 00:46:34.255
and she
00:46:34.255 --> 00:46:34.615
said,
00:46:34.615 --> 00:46:35.515
miss, can
00:46:35.515 --> 00:46:35.935
we do that again
00:46:35.935 --> 00:46:36.325
tomorrow?
00:46:36.876 --> 00:46:37.416
Yeah.
00:46:37.776 --> 00:46:38.106
The teacher
00:46:38.111 --> 00:46:38.171
said,
00:46:38.901 --> 00:46:39.021
The
00:46:39.021 --> 00:46:39.321
teacher
00:46:39.321 --> 00:46:39.621
said,
00:46:39.621 --> 00:46:39.801
uh,
00:46:39.861 --> 00:46:39.951
did
00:46:39.951 --> 00:46:40.191
you
00:46:40.311 --> 00:46:40.791
enjoy that?
00:46:40.791 --> 00:46:41.391
And she's like, yeah, I
00:46:41.391 --> 00:46:41.961
like learning.
00:46:42.501 --> 00:46:43.311
You know, So I
00:46:43.311 --> 00:46:43.461
think
00:46:43.461 --> 00:46:43.611
that
00:46:43.611 --> 00:46:43.851
there's,
00:46:43.851 --> 00:46:44.211
that,
00:46:44.511 --> 00:46:44.841
that's
00:46:44.841 --> 00:46:44.931
a
00:46:44.931 --> 00:46:46.131
huge aha,
00:46:46.613 --> 00:46:47.093
but
00:46:47.093 --> 00:46:47.183
we
00:46:47.183 --> 00:46:47.363
gotta
00:46:47.363 --> 00:46:48.263
convince the teacher to go
00:46:48.263 --> 00:46:48.413
back
00:46:48.413 --> 00:46:48.593
and do
00:46:48.593 --> 00:46:48.653
it
00:46:48.653 --> 00:46:49.313
again tomorrow
00:46:49.643 --> 00:46:49.973
because
00:46:49.973 --> 00:46:50.093
it's
00:46:50.093 --> 00:46:51.023
so easy to
00:46:51.023 --> 00:46:51.413
not,
00:46:51.473 --> 00:46:51.893
right?
00:46:52.823 --> 00:46:53.693
yeah, that, that,
00:46:53.693 --> 00:46:54.083
uh,
00:46:54.263 --> 00:46:54.533
that was
00:46:54.533 --> 00:46:54.713
like a
00:46:54.713 --> 00:46:54.893
really
00:46:54.893 --> 00:46:55.223
telling
00:46:55.223 --> 00:46:55.823
moment for me,
00:46:55.823 --> 00:46:56.303
both for
00:46:56.303 --> 00:46:56.453
what
00:46:56.453 --> 00:46:56.783
Gene was
00:46:56.783 --> 00:46:57.143
saying
00:46:57.413 --> 00:46:57.593
and
00:46:57.593 --> 00:46:57.773
for
00:46:57.773 --> 00:46:57.923
how
00:46:57.923 --> 00:46:58.283
hard
00:46:58.283 --> 00:46:58.523
it is
00:46:58.523 --> 00:46:59.093
to break those
00:46:59.093 --> 00:46:59.483
habits
00:46:59.483 --> 00:47:00.593
that have become ingrained in the last
00:47:00.593 --> 00:47:02.438
three, 10 years.
00:47:03.164 --> 00:47:08.354
Bart: What questions should leaders be asking before adopting new tech, especially ai?
00:47:09.116 --> 00:47:09.356
Frank: Well,
00:47:09.356 --> 00:47:09.566
there's
00:47:09.566 --> 00:47:09.626
a
00:47:09.626 --> 00:47:09.866
whole
00:47:09.866 --> 00:47:10.376
chapter
00:47:10.376 --> 00:47:10.586
on
00:47:10.586 --> 00:47:10.706
it,
00:47:10.706 --> 00:47:10.856
and
00:47:10.856 --> 00:47:11.186
it's,
00:47:11.186 --> 00:47:12.349
um, it's called,
00:47:12.349 --> 00:47:12.949
uh, using
00:47:12.949 --> 00:47:13.219
the
00:47:13.219 --> 00:47:13.789
educational
00:47:13.789 --> 00:47:14.239
vision or
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:15.514
instructional vision as a filter.
00:47:16.309 --> 00:47:16.879
Um,
00:47:17.419 --> 00:47:17.929
and that should
00:47:17.929 --> 00:47:18.409
be question
00:47:18.409 --> 00:47:18.589
number
00:47:18.589 --> 00:47:20.299
one is what's
00:47:20.299 --> 00:47:20.839
our purpose
00:47:20.839 --> 00:47:21.139
here?
00:47:21.139 --> 00:47:21.439
As
00:47:21.529 --> 00:47:21.799
in
00:47:21.799 --> 00:47:22.219
whatever
00:47:22.219 --> 00:47:22.519
school
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.529
district, there's a fictional school district
00:47:24.529 --> 00:47:24.709
called
00:47:24.739 --> 00:47:25.069
Irving
00:47:25.069 --> 00:47:26.179
School District in the beginning,
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:26.899
what is
00:47:26.899 --> 00:47:27.709
our purpose in
00:47:27.709 --> 00:47:28.069
the Irving
00:47:28.069 --> 00:47:28.789
School District?
00:47:28.789 --> 00:47:28.999
What
00:47:28.999 --> 00:47:29.119
is
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:29.659
our mission,
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:30.259
our vision?
00:47:30.435 --> 00:47:30.765
that
00:47:30.765 --> 00:47:31.035
should be
00:47:31.035 --> 00:47:31.705
the first filter.
00:47:32.102 --> 00:47:32.312
Does
00:47:32.312 --> 00:47:32.612
it fit
00:47:32.612 --> 00:47:32.732
the
00:47:32.732 --> 00:47:33.062
vision
00:47:33.062 --> 00:47:33.152
or
00:47:33.152 --> 00:47:33.362
not?
00:47:33.392 --> 00:47:33.632
If
00:47:33.632 --> 00:47:33.752
in
00:47:33.752 --> 00:47:34.382
our vision we
00:47:34.382 --> 00:47:34.832
say we want
00:47:34.832 --> 00:47:36.272
kids who can collaborate,
00:47:36.662 --> 00:47:37.382
kids who
00:47:37.442 --> 00:47:37.622
can
00:47:37.622 --> 00:47:38.852
communicate well, who can
00:47:38.852 --> 00:47:39.332
sustain
00:47:39.332 --> 00:47:40.202
focus,
00:47:40.232 --> 00:47:40.412
who
00:47:40.412 --> 00:47:41.522
can read deeply?
00:47:42.332 --> 00:47:42.692
Is
00:47:42.692 --> 00:47:42.932
this
00:47:42.932 --> 00:47:44.072
program doing that?
00:47:44.486 --> 00:47:44.696
Let's
00:47:44.696 --> 00:47:44.966
say that
00:47:44.966 --> 00:47:45.566
it is doing all
00:47:45.566 --> 00:47:45.776
those
00:47:46.616 --> 00:47:46.886
Then
00:47:46.886 --> 00:47:46.976
the
00:47:46.976 --> 00:47:47.186
next
00:47:47.186 --> 00:47:47.576
question
00:47:47.576 --> 00:47:47.666
is,
00:47:47.666 --> 00:47:47.876
okay,
00:47:47.876 --> 00:47:48.266
what's
00:47:48.266 --> 00:47:49.136
it replacing?
00:47:49.646 --> 00:47:50.036
Right?
00:47:50.276 --> 00:47:50.546
So
00:47:50.546 --> 00:47:50.816
that's,
00:47:50.816 --> 00:47:51.176
it's always
00:47:51.176 --> 00:47:51.296
an
00:47:51.296 --> 00:47:51.866
opportunity.
00:47:51.866 --> 00:47:52.766
Cost question
00:47:53.246 --> 00:47:53.606
is
00:47:53.606 --> 00:47:53.786
you
00:47:53.786 --> 00:47:53.996
only
00:47:53.996 --> 00:47:55.136
have six hours in a day.
00:47:55.736 --> 00:47:56.156
How
00:47:56.156 --> 00:47:56.576
good
00:47:56.576 --> 00:47:56.846
must
00:47:56.846 --> 00:47:58.046
this program be
00:47:58.616 --> 00:48:00.116
Tola to take some of those
00:48:00.116 --> 00:48:01.226
six hours, right?
00:48:01.226 --> 00:48:02.156
Because I
00:48:02.156 --> 00:48:02.786
mean those, that's
00:48:02.786 --> 00:48:02.936
the
00:48:02.936 --> 00:48:03.626
most valuable
00:48:03.626 --> 00:48:05.216
resource that schools have
00:48:05.216 --> 00:48:05.246
is
00:48:06.146 --> 00:48:06.626
that
00:48:06.626 --> 00:48:06.956
time
00:48:06.956 --> 00:48:07.166
with the
00:48:07.166 --> 00:48:07.586
kiddos.
00:48:07.586 --> 00:48:07.736
And
00:48:07.736 --> 00:48:07.976
if you're
00:48:07.976 --> 00:48:08.546
gonna take some
00:48:08.546 --> 00:48:08.606
of
00:48:08.606 --> 00:48:08.696
that
00:48:08.696 --> 00:48:08.906
time
00:48:08.906 --> 00:48:09.506
away and turn
00:48:09.506 --> 00:48:09.716
it over
00:48:09.716 --> 00:48:10.316
a screen,
00:48:10.766 --> 00:48:11.006
boy
00:48:11.006 --> 00:48:11.096
it
00:48:11.096 --> 00:48:12.236
better meet your vision.
00:48:12.956 --> 00:48:13.166
It
00:48:13.166 --> 00:48:14.006
better meet
00:48:14.156 --> 00:48:14.366
your
00:48:14.366 --> 00:48:15.656
instructional program.
00:48:16.346 --> 00:48:16.646
Um,
00:48:16.676 --> 00:48:16.946
and then
00:48:16.946 --> 00:48:17.486
better
00:48:18.086 --> 00:48:18.266
be
00:48:18.266 --> 00:48:18.536
doing
00:48:18.536 --> 00:48:19.436
a better job of
00:48:19.436 --> 00:48:19.586
it.
00:48:20.036 --> 00:48:22.316
Um, one last quote.
00:48:22.316 --> 00:48:29.299
I know you wants to jump in on this one as well, but from the same Spanish teacher actually, she was talking about, when
00:48:29.299 --> 00:48:29.779
you're in a
00:48:29.779 --> 00:48:30.199
Spanish
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:30.619
class,
00:48:31.369 --> 00:48:32.059
um, or any
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:32.959
language class
00:48:33.229 --> 00:48:33.379
you
00:48:33.379 --> 00:48:34.069
practice,
00:48:34.279 --> 00:48:34.609
right?
00:48:34.757 --> 00:48:35.327
well now
00:48:35.327 --> 00:48:35.597
you can
00:48:35.597 --> 00:48:36.107
practice with
00:48:36.107 --> 00:48:36.197
a
00:48:36.197 --> 00:48:36.527
bot
00:48:36.767 --> 00:48:37.907
instead of practicing with a person.
00:48:38.747 --> 00:48:39.167
And
00:48:39.167 --> 00:48:39.347
what
00:48:39.347 --> 00:48:39.467
the
00:48:39.467 --> 00:48:40.097
teacher was
00:48:40.097 --> 00:48:40.877
talking about
00:48:40.877 --> 00:48:41.057
is
00:48:41.057 --> 00:48:41.327
just
00:48:41.327 --> 00:48:41.927
how,
00:48:42.504 --> 00:48:42.834
much
00:48:42.834 --> 00:48:44.004
more formulaic the
00:48:44.004 --> 00:48:44.604
practice
00:48:44.604 --> 00:48:44.724
is.
00:48:44.724 --> 00:48:44.934
Now,
00:48:44.934 --> 00:48:45.774
in the past, you know,
00:48:45.774 --> 00:48:45.924
you
00:48:45.924 --> 00:48:46.164
would,
00:48:47.334 --> 00:48:47.634
make
00:48:47.634 --> 00:48:48.024
eye to eye
00:48:48.024 --> 00:48:48.864
contact.
00:48:49.194 --> 00:48:49.374
You
00:48:49.374 --> 00:48:49.974
practice
00:48:49.974 --> 00:48:50.334
whatever
00:48:50.334 --> 00:48:50.994
the phrase is.
00:48:50.994 --> 00:48:51.144
You're
00:48:51.144 --> 00:48:51.594
learning,
00:48:51.594 --> 00:48:51.864
you,
00:48:51.864 --> 00:48:52.074
you
00:48:52.074 --> 00:48:52.614
giggle,
00:48:52.614 --> 00:48:53.484
you embarrass yourself
00:48:53.484 --> 00:48:53.544
a
00:48:53.544 --> 00:48:53.724
little
00:48:53.724 --> 00:48:53.934
bit,
00:48:54.354 --> 00:48:54.534
but
00:48:54.534 --> 00:48:55.224
you learn from
00:48:55.224 --> 00:48:55.404
that,
00:48:55.644 --> 00:48:56.004
right?
00:48:56.064 --> 00:48:56.184
You
00:48:56.184 --> 00:48:56.364
learn
00:48:56.364 --> 00:48:56.484
to
00:48:56.484 --> 00:48:56.634
deal
00:48:56.634 --> 00:48:57.294
with embarrassment.
00:48:57.294 --> 00:48:57.534
You learn
00:48:57.534 --> 00:48:57.894
how to.
00:48:58.314 --> 00:48:58.524
Put
00:48:58.524 --> 00:48:59.064
yourself out
00:48:59.064 --> 00:48:59.184
there
00:48:59.184 --> 00:48:59.244
a
00:48:59.244 --> 00:48:59.754
little bit.
00:49:00.144 --> 00:49:00.444
But when
00:49:00.444 --> 00:49:00.534
you.
00:49:01.074 --> 00:49:01.374
getting
00:49:01.374 --> 00:49:02.004
that feedback
00:49:02.004 --> 00:49:02.154
from
00:49:02.154 --> 00:49:02.214
a
00:49:02.214 --> 00:49:11.431
screen, it's only, it's only really assessing were you correct or Um, so I think back to your question of what should superintendent ask themselves?
00:49:11.431 --> 00:49:18.841
I think it's that it's like, what is being lost besides the time, besides does it fit into our vision?
00:49:18.841 --> 00:49:25.176
The, it's a, it's like, what are we losing by, by turning to this program instead of having that human
00:49:26.101 --> 00:49:26.761
Gene Tavernetti: you know, and I, and
00:49:26.761 --> 00:49:30.691
I think the whole vision thing, there's probably people rolling their eyes,
00:49:30.781 --> 00:49:31.081
oh,
00:49:31.081 --> 00:49:31.171
we're
00:49:31.171 --> 00:49:31.441
gonna have
00:49:31.441 --> 00:49:32.191
another vision.
00:49:32.641 --> 00:49:33.601
But, but this is
00:49:33.601 --> 00:49:34.171
really
00:49:34.291 --> 00:49:35.221
an important,
00:49:35.389 --> 00:49:36.679
criteria to make
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:37.339
those decisions
00:49:37.339 --> 00:49:37.639
because
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:37.759
it's
00:49:37.759 --> 00:49:38.299
not like
00:49:38.299 --> 00:49:39.349
you're, you're,
00:49:39.379 --> 00:49:39.889
uh,
00:49:39.889 --> 00:49:40.039
a
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:40.699
new text
00:49:40.759 --> 00:49:44.659
adoption that you have a year to do it, and you have all this time because these people
00:49:44.659 --> 00:49:44.749
are
00:49:44.749 --> 00:49:45.049
coming
00:49:45.049 --> 00:49:48.139
out with these apps, you know, one, one after another.
00:49:48.529 --> 00:49:50.269
So you have to have some sort
00:49:50.269 --> 00:49:51.109
of grounding
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:53.419
to make these decisions, and you have to
00:49:53.629 --> 00:49:55.189
make them fairly quickly.
00:49:55.969 --> 00:49:57.709
Because you have teachers all that.
00:49:57.769 --> 00:49:58.339
They found
00:49:58.339 --> 00:49:58.789
this one,
00:49:58.819 --> 00:49:59.029
they
00:49:59.029 --> 00:49:59.299
found
00:49:59.299 --> 00:50:00.499
that one, and then
00:50:00.499 --> 00:50:03.439
the one that they gave up that platform, guess what?
00:50:03.439 --> 00:50:03.619
They
00:50:03.619 --> 00:50:05.809
just have a super improved version.
00:50:05.959 --> 00:50:07.489
And so if you aren't grounded
00:50:07.489 --> 00:50:07.759
in
00:50:07.759 --> 00:50:08.149
what
00:50:08.209 --> 00:50:08.449
we
00:50:08.449 --> 00:50:09.349
are all about,
00:50:09.739 --> 00:50:09.889
you
00:50:09.889 --> 00:50:10.069
know,
00:50:10.099 --> 00:50:10.999
instructionally,
00:50:11.329 --> 00:50:11.959
you're gonna just
00:50:11.959 --> 00:50:12.439
flounder
00:50:12.469 --> 00:50:14.329
every time, every time we have one
00:50:14.329 --> 00:50:15.199
of those issues.
00:50:15.499 --> 00:50:16.279
And when
00:50:16.279 --> 00:50:17.059
the decisions
00:50:17.059 --> 00:50:17.779
aren't made
00:50:17.839 --> 00:50:18.229
and they
00:50:18.229 --> 00:50:18.709
aren't
00:50:19.399 --> 00:50:20.029
clear
00:50:20.389 --> 00:50:20.569
to
00:50:20.569 --> 00:50:21.379
the teachers,
00:50:21.769 --> 00:50:21.949
they
00:50:21.949 --> 00:50:22.159
just
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:22.519
think, oh,
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:22.819
there's
00:50:22.879 --> 00:50:23.479
capricious.
00:50:23.479 --> 00:50:23.659
They,
00:50:23.779 --> 00:50:24.649
oh, they're anti-tech.
00:50:24.649 --> 00:50:25.969
They're, no, we have to,
00:50:25.999 --> 00:50:26.209
we
00:50:26.209 --> 00:50:26.419
have
00:50:26.419 --> 00:50:26.539
to
00:50:26.539 --> 00:50:27.019
have that
00:50:27.049 --> 00:50:27.559
vision.
00:50:27.709 --> 00:50:28.069
Does this
00:50:28.069 --> 00:50:28.399
match
00:50:28.399 --> 00:50:28.519
the
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:29.029
vision?
00:50:29.089 --> 00:50:29.299
And
00:50:29.299 --> 00:50:29.629
it has
00:50:29.629 --> 00:50:29.719
to
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:29.869
be
00:50:29.869 --> 00:50:30.649
expressed
00:50:30.919 --> 00:50:31.279
how
00:50:31.279 --> 00:50:31.669
this,
00:50:31.699 --> 00:50:31.939
this
00:50:31.939 --> 00:50:32.389
decision
00:50:32.389 --> 00:50:32.569
was
00:50:32.659 --> 00:50:32.959
made.
00:50:33.804 --> 00:50:34.094
Frank: Yeah.
00:50:34.099 --> 00:50:34.939
Dr. Smith
00:50:34.939 --> 00:50:35.239
was in
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:35.599
a, in
00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:35.869
a
00:50:35.869 --> 00:50:36.649
elementary school
00:50:36.649 --> 00:50:37.429
recently, Donna,
00:50:37.451 --> 00:50:37.749
just
00:50:37.749 --> 00:50:37.839
in
00:50:37.839 --> 00:50:37.899
a
00:50:37.899 --> 00:50:38.319
morning
00:50:38.319 --> 00:50:39.444
walk in two hours
00:50:40.299 --> 00:50:40.509
at an
00:50:40.509 --> 00:50:40.899
elementary
00:50:40.899 --> 00:50:41.139
school.
00:50:41.139 --> 00:50:41.559
They, she,
00:50:41.799 --> 00:50:42.189
she
00:50:42.189 --> 00:50:42.819
and the administrator
00:50:42.819 --> 00:50:42.969
that
00:50:43.029 --> 00:50:43.239
she
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:43.329
was
00:50:43.329 --> 00:50:43.689
walking
00:50:43.689 --> 00:50:43.839
with
00:50:43.839 --> 00:50:45.009
came across 12
00:50:45.909 --> 00:50:46.359
student
00:50:46.359 --> 00:50:46.719
facing
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:47.164
apps
00:50:47.919 --> 00:50:48.069
that
00:50:48.069 --> 00:50:48.369
hadn't
00:50:48.369 --> 00:50:48.609
made
00:50:48.609 --> 00:50:48.729
their
00:50:48.729 --> 00:50:49.059
way
00:50:49.059 --> 00:50:49.269
through
00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:49.869
any sort
00:50:49.869 --> 00:50:50.799
of district
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:52.334
filtering system.
00:50:53.409 --> 00:50:53.529
You
00:50:53.529 --> 00:50:53.829
know, these
00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:54.069
are
00:50:54.129 --> 00:50:54.519
apps
00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:54.819
that,
00:50:54.999 --> 00:50:55.179
that
00:50:55.179 --> 00:50:55.509
are, again,
00:50:55.509 --> 00:50:55.599
if
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:55.869
student
00:50:55.869 --> 00:50:56.169
facing
00:50:56.169 --> 00:50:56.259
or
00:50:56.409 --> 00:50:56.499
are
00:50:56.499 --> 00:50:57.249
taking student time, but
00:50:57.969 --> 00:50:58.299
in some
00:50:58.299 --> 00:50:58.599
cases
00:50:58.599 --> 00:50:58.899
they even
00:50:58.899 --> 00:50:59.439
require
00:50:59.439 --> 00:50:59.679
like
00:50:59.709 --> 00:51:00.069
student
00:51:00.069 --> 00:51:00.399
personal
00:51:00.399 --> 00:51:01.659
information being entered into
00:51:02.739 --> 00:51:03.159
And,
00:51:03.189 --> 00:51:03.759
um,
00:51:04.419 --> 00:51:04.599
the
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:05.019
administrators
00:51:05.019 --> 00:51:05.709
were shocked.
00:51:06.099 --> 00:51:06.309
But I
00:51:06.309 --> 00:51:06.939
think one,
00:51:06.969 --> 00:51:07.299
one
00:51:07.299 --> 00:51:07.719
truth
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:08.439
that we've learned
00:51:08.439 --> 00:51:08.919
is,
00:51:09.429 --> 00:51:09.519
you
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:09.609
know,
00:51:09.609 --> 00:51:09.819
going
00:51:09.819 --> 00:51:09.999
back
00:51:09.999 --> 00:51:10.059
to
00:51:10.059 --> 00:51:10.624
your fictional
00:51:10.629 --> 00:51:11.349
superintendent,
00:51:11.409 --> 00:51:11.709
uh,
00:51:11.709 --> 00:51:12.279
and you asked
00:51:12.279 --> 00:51:12.399
like,
00:51:12.399 --> 00:51:12.549
what
00:51:12.549 --> 00:51:12.819
would you
00:51:12.909 --> 00:51:13.299
advise
00:51:13.299 --> 00:51:13.929
a superintendent
00:51:13.929 --> 00:51:14.139
on
00:51:14.589 --> 00:51:14.919
is, maybe
00:51:14.919 --> 00:51:15.219
the very
00:51:15.219 --> 00:51:15.459
first
00:51:15.459 --> 00:51:15.549
thing
00:51:15.549 --> 00:51:15.639
would
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:15.849
be,
00:51:16.089 --> 00:51:16.149
I
00:51:16.149 --> 00:51:16.539
want you to
00:51:16.539 --> 00:51:17.319
estimate
00:51:17.379 --> 00:51:17.589
how
00:51:17.589 --> 00:51:17.829
many
00:51:17.829 --> 00:51:18.159
minutes
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.489
we're gonna
00:51:18.489 --> 00:51:18.969
see
00:51:20.289 --> 00:51:20.739
students
00:51:20.739 --> 00:51:20.859
are
00:51:20.859 --> 00:51:21.489
on screens.
00:51:21.729 --> 00:51:21.939
And
00:51:21.969 --> 00:51:22.569
almost
00:51:22.569 --> 00:51:23.229
always,
00:51:23.229 --> 00:51:24.249
it's an underestimate.
00:51:25.269 --> 00:51:25.539
Yeah.
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:25.929
And
00:51:25.929 --> 00:51:26.019
I.
00:51:26.019 --> 00:51:26.379
think
00:51:26.829 --> 00:51:27.099
If
00:51:27.099 --> 00:51:27.219
you
00:51:27.219 --> 00:51:27.669
follow
00:51:27.669 --> 00:51:27.879
like
00:51:27.879 --> 00:51:28.029
at
00:51:28.029 --> 00:51:28.119
the
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:28.989
secondary level,
00:51:28.989 --> 00:51:29.559
you know, kids go
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:30.009
from period
00:51:30.009 --> 00:51:30.099
to
00:51:30.099 --> 00:51:30.429
period,
00:51:30.609 --> 00:51:31.269
follow
00:51:31.269 --> 00:51:31.389
a
00:51:31.389 --> 00:51:32.524
cohort of kids the whole
00:51:33.579 --> 00:51:33.789
then
00:51:33.789 --> 00:51:34.059
you'll get
00:51:34.059 --> 00:51:34.359
a real
00:51:34.359 --> 00:51:35.919
understanding about, oh man,
00:51:36.489 --> 00:51:36.699
it's
00:51:36.699 --> 00:51:36.939
true.
00:51:36.939 --> 00:51:37.659
They're getting this
00:51:37.659 --> 00:51:38.769
in period one, this in
00:51:38.769 --> 00:51:39.099
period
00:51:39.099 --> 00:51:39.489
two, this in
00:51:39.489 --> 00:51:39.759
period
00:51:39.759 --> 00:51:39.969
three.
00:51:40.359 --> 00:51:40.479
And
00:51:40.479 --> 00:51:40.629
some
00:51:40.629 --> 00:51:40.719
of
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:41.079
the programs
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:41.529
are good, but
00:51:41.529 --> 00:51:41.619
they
00:51:41.619 --> 00:51:41.799
should
00:51:41.799 --> 00:51:41.889
be
00:51:41.889 --> 00:51:42.909
supplementary, they should
00:51:42.909 --> 00:51:43.149
not
00:51:43.149 --> 00:51:43.509
be
00:51:44.019 --> 00:51:44.829
replacing,
00:51:44.829 --> 00:51:45.099
right.
00:51:45.099 --> 00:51:45.249
They,
00:51:45.249 --> 00:51:45.489
they,
00:51:45.489 --> 00:51:45.639
they
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:45.939
should be
00:51:45.939 --> 00:51:46.959
augmenting, they should not
00:51:46.959 --> 00:51:47.199
be
00:51:47.529 --> 00:51:48.214
taking the place
00:51:48.314 --> 00:51:48.534
up.
00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:48.819
And
00:51:48.819 --> 00:51:48.909
in
00:51:48.909 --> 00:51:49.149
many
00:51:49.149 --> 00:51:49.719
places
00:51:50.139 --> 00:51:51.639
it's actually become the instruction
00:51:52.571 --> 00:51:52.931
Gene Tavernetti: or
00:51:53.021 --> 00:51:53.141
a
00:51:53.141 --> 00:51:53.921
substitute for
00:51:53.921 --> 00:51:55.721
instruction more accurately, I think.
00:51:55.811 --> 00:51:56.291
Bart: Makes sense.
00:51:57.041 --> 00:52:01.421
If we get this right, what could schools look like five years from now?
00:52:01.952 --> 00:52:02.102
Frank: Well,
00:52:02.102 --> 00:52:02.282
that's
00:52:02.282 --> 00:52:02.792
what started
00:52:02.792 --> 00:52:02.972
this
00:52:02.972 --> 00:52:03.452
whole thing
00:52:03.992 --> 00:52:04.772
was I was
00:52:04.772 --> 00:52:05.162
asking
00:52:05.162 --> 00:52:05.702
people,
00:52:05.792 --> 00:52:05.912
you
00:52:05.912 --> 00:52:06.692
know, in positions like
00:52:06.692 --> 00:52:07.232
yourself,
00:52:07.862 --> 00:52:08.162
what
00:52:08.162 --> 00:52:08.522
does this look
00:52:08.522 --> 00:52:08.732
like in
00:52:08.732 --> 00:52:09.452
2032?
00:52:09.722 --> 00:52:09.932
And
00:52:09.932 --> 00:52:10.862
in some of the responses
00:52:10.862 --> 00:52:10.982
that
00:52:10.982 --> 00:52:11.072
I
00:52:11.072 --> 00:52:11.462
got,
00:52:11.492 --> 00:52:11.792
uh,
00:52:11.942 --> 00:52:12.092
that
00:52:12.092 --> 00:52:12.722
we got were
00:52:12.722 --> 00:52:12.932
like,
00:52:13.487 --> 00:52:14.747
2032, I wanna make it
00:52:14.747 --> 00:52:15.107
to next,
00:52:15.167 --> 00:52:15.497
next
00:52:15.497 --> 00:52:15.917
week,
00:52:15.977 --> 00:52:16.367
you know,
00:52:16.607 --> 00:52:17.177
because
00:52:17.597 --> 00:52:17.777
it
00:52:17.777 --> 00:52:18.197
was tough
00:52:18.197 --> 00:52:18.677
coming outta the
00:52:18.677 --> 00:52:19.097
pandemic,
00:52:19.097 --> 00:52:19.277
right?
00:52:19.277 --> 00:52:19.397
With
00:52:19.397 --> 00:52:19.787
the kiddos
00:52:19.787 --> 00:52:20.027
running
00:52:20.027 --> 00:52:20.177
for
00:52:20.177 --> 00:52:20.267
the
00:52:20.267 --> 00:52:21.167
hills like we were talking
00:52:21.167 --> 00:52:21.467
about,
00:52:21.467 --> 00:52:21.557
and
00:52:21.557 --> 00:52:21.737
the,
00:52:22.097 --> 00:52:22.547
The mental
00:52:22.547 --> 00:52:22.787
health
00:52:22.787 --> 00:52:24.107
concerns and teachers,
00:52:24.617 --> 00:52:24.977
uh,
00:52:24.977 --> 00:52:25.277
worried
00:52:25.277 --> 00:52:25.397
about
00:52:25.397 --> 00:52:25.787
get coming
00:52:25.787 --> 00:52:25.967
back
00:52:25.967 --> 00:52:26.087
as
00:52:26.087 --> 00:52:26.357
well.
00:52:26.987 --> 00:52:27.137
So
00:52:27.137 --> 00:52:27.197
it
00:52:27.197 --> 00:52:27.437
was
00:52:27.437 --> 00:52:27.797
really
00:52:27.797 --> 00:52:28.427
tough in that
00:52:28.427 --> 00:52:28.757
setting.
00:52:28.757 --> 00:52:29.342
20
00:52:29.342 --> 00:52:30.512
22, 23,
00:52:30.512 --> 00:52:31.097
24.
00:52:32.147 --> 00:52:32.297
So
00:52:32.327 --> 00:52:32.447
we're
00:52:32.447 --> 00:52:33.317
asking that,
00:52:34.487 --> 00:52:34.667
but
00:52:34.667 --> 00:52:35.087
I think,
00:52:35.117 --> 00:52:35.297
uh,
00:52:35.297 --> 00:52:35.987
you know, chapter
00:52:35.987 --> 00:52:36.407
six
00:52:36.407 --> 00:52:36.527
and
00:52:36.527 --> 00:52:36.797
then the
00:52:36.797 --> 00:52:37.667
epilogue really
00:52:37.667 --> 00:52:38.057
talk
00:52:38.057 --> 00:52:38.477
about,
00:52:38.567 --> 00:52:39.797
um, what
00:52:39.797 --> 00:52:40.827
they should look like if
00:52:41.657 --> 00:52:41.837
What
00:52:41.837 --> 00:52:42.767
it should look like is
00:52:43.149 --> 00:52:45.549
standards based, intentional personal
00:52:45.549 --> 00:52:46.119
instruction
00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:46.269
in the
00:52:46.269 --> 00:52:46.809
classroom
00:52:46.809 --> 00:52:46.959
with
00:52:46.959 --> 00:52:47.289
durable
00:52:47.289 --> 00:52:47.679
skills
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:48.459
being built,
00:52:48.887 --> 00:52:49.367
technology
00:52:49.367 --> 00:52:50.327
being used
00:52:51.047 --> 00:52:51.347
in an,
00:52:51.437 --> 00:52:51.557
in
00:52:51.557 --> 00:52:52.277
an augmenting
00:52:52.277 --> 00:52:52.697
manner.
00:52:53.177 --> 00:52:53.957
But outside
00:52:53.957 --> 00:52:54.017
of
00:52:54.017 --> 00:52:54.437
that,
00:52:54.767 --> 00:52:55.127
there's
00:52:55.182 --> 00:52:55.662
connections
00:52:55.672 --> 00:52:56.022
going
00:52:56.022 --> 00:52:56.222
on
00:52:56.222 --> 00:52:56.502
with,
00:52:56.657 --> 00:52:56.717
you
00:52:56.717 --> 00:52:57.617
know, local parks
00:52:57.617 --> 00:52:57.737
and
00:52:57.737 --> 00:52:58.097
rec
00:52:58.697 --> 00:52:58.907
in
00:52:58.907 --> 00:52:59.387
Nicholas
00:52:59.387 --> 00:52:59.837
Bloom,
00:52:59.957 --> 00:53:00.227
uh,
00:53:00.257 --> 00:53:00.947
Nicholas Carr's
00:53:00.947 --> 00:53:01.187
book,
00:53:01.187 --> 00:53:01.457
super
00:53:01.457 --> 00:53:01.697
Bloom, he
00:53:01.697 --> 00:53:01.997
talks
00:53:01.997 --> 00:53:02.357
about
00:53:02.657 --> 00:53:03.737
the decline
00:53:04.247 --> 00:53:06.017
in, in youth,
00:53:06.077 --> 00:53:06.527
Um.
00:53:07.067 --> 00:53:07.667
You know, sports
00:53:07.667 --> 00:53:08.747
league activities,
00:53:08.747 --> 00:53:09.407
scouting
00:53:09.407 --> 00:53:09.767
church
00:53:09.767 --> 00:53:10.427
activities,
00:53:10.787 --> 00:53:11.537
something like
00:53:11.567 --> 00:53:12.467
800 hours a
00:53:12.467 --> 00:53:13.457
year for the average
00:53:13.457 --> 00:53:14.027
teenager
00:53:14.027 --> 00:53:14.147
in
00:53:14.147 --> 00:53:14.507
the last
00:53:14.507 --> 00:53:14.687
10
00:53:14.687 --> 00:53:15.077
years.
00:53:15.407 --> 00:53:16.277
Decline
00:53:16.277 --> 00:53:17.237
in terms of interacting
00:53:17.237 --> 00:53:17.387
with
00:53:17.387 --> 00:53:17.717
others.
00:53:18.017 --> 00:53:18.287
So
00:53:18.287 --> 00:53:18.467
it
00:53:18.467 --> 00:53:18.647
would
00:53:18.647 --> 00:53:19.517
be not just
00:53:19.517 --> 00:53:20.687
what's going on in the school,
00:53:21.617 --> 00:53:22.037
in our
00:53:22.037 --> 00:53:22.967
vision, in
00:53:22.967 --> 00:53:23.117
our
00:53:23.117 --> 00:53:24.407
hope, the school
00:53:24.407 --> 00:53:27.431
becomes a catalyst for a community wide and
00:53:27.431 --> 00:53:27.701
it might
00:53:27.701 --> 00:53:28.151
be asking
00:53:28.151 --> 00:53:28.391
a lot,
00:53:28.391 --> 00:53:28.781
especially
00:53:28.781 --> 00:53:28.961
like
00:53:28.961 --> 00:53:29.231
in really
00:53:29.231 --> 00:53:30.371
large districts and really big
00:53:30.371 --> 00:53:34.156
urban areas, but definitely you can be a hub.
00:53:34.716 --> 00:53:35.016
can be
00:53:35.016 --> 00:53:36.696
a hub where like, you know,
00:53:36.936 --> 00:53:37.506
restaurant
00:53:37.506 --> 00:53:39.636
nights in this community Thursday is no
00:53:39.636 --> 00:53:40.106
screens today.
00:53:41.126 --> 00:53:41.996
Gene Tavernetti: Something else that I think
00:53:41.996 --> 00:53:42.296
is gonna
00:53:42.296 --> 00:53:42.806
be happening
00:53:42.806 --> 00:53:42.986
in,
00:53:42.986 --> 00:53:44.066
in the public schools
00:53:44.066 --> 00:53:46.976
is, um, uh, especially when we're
00:53:46.976 --> 00:53:51.303
asking schools to have an instructional vision there will be
00:53:51.843 --> 00:53:52.143
a lot
00:53:52.143 --> 00:53:53.343
of schools of choice.
00:53:53.842 --> 00:53:54.442
because that's
00:53:54.442 --> 00:53:54.622
one
00:53:54.622 --> 00:53:54.712
of
00:53:54.712 --> 00:53:55.102
the things
00:53:55.107 --> 00:53:55.217
that,
00:53:55.312 --> 00:53:55.492
that
00:53:55.492 --> 00:53:56.452
we have found out
00:53:56.452 --> 00:53:57.052
or that we're
00:53:57.052 --> 00:53:58.552
competing against, is all of
00:53:58.552 --> 00:53:58.732
these
00:53:58.732 --> 00:53:59.002
charter
00:53:59.002 --> 00:53:59.362
schools
00:53:59.362 --> 00:53:59.542
that
00:53:59.542 --> 00:54:02.182
pop up with an emphasis with, with
00:54:02.182 --> 00:54:02.662
something.
00:54:03.022 --> 00:54:03.777
And I,
00:54:03.782 --> 00:54:04.222
I, I
00:54:04.222 --> 00:54:04.642
think that,
00:54:04.642 --> 00:54:07.822
I think that's good that, that we have choice, but
00:54:07.822 --> 00:54:08.092
we have
00:54:08.092 --> 00:54:08.212
to
00:54:08.212 --> 00:54:08.362
be
00:54:08.362 --> 00:54:09.022
sure that
00:54:09.052 --> 00:54:10.042
it's, we're
00:54:10.042 --> 00:54:10.552
protecting
00:54:10.552 --> 00:54:11.062
the kids
00:54:11.062 --> 00:54:11.182
the
00:54:11.182 --> 00:54:11.602
way that,
00:54:11.722 --> 00:54:11.842
the
00:54:11.842 --> 00:54:11.992
way
00:54:11.992 --> 00:54:12.142
that
00:54:12.142 --> 00:54:12.412
Frank
00:54:12.412 --> 00:54:12.712
just,
00:54:12.712 --> 00:54:12.952
just,
00:54:12.952 --> 00:54:13.612
talked about,
00:54:14.315 --> 00:54:15.155
unless,
00:54:15.305 --> 00:54:15.455
you
00:54:15.455 --> 00:54:15.665
know,
00:54:15.750 --> 00:54:17.525
the, the, uh,
00:54:17.585 --> 00:54:18.125
you know, we've
00:54:18.125 --> 00:54:20.945
got these, these alpha schools, alpha School
00:54:20.945 --> 00:54:21.215
now,
00:54:21.215 --> 00:54:21.515
unless
00:54:21.515 --> 00:54:21.665
you
00:54:21.665 --> 00:54:21.995
just
00:54:21.995 --> 00:54:22.415
choose
00:54:22.415 --> 00:54:22.895
that for
00:54:22.895 --> 00:54:23.075
your
00:54:23.135 --> 00:54:23.525
kids,
00:54:23.855 --> 00:54:24.125
but
00:54:24.155 --> 00:54:25.775
we need to, you know,
00:54:26.285 --> 00:54:26.945
be really
00:54:26.945 --> 00:54:27.515
clear about
00:54:27.515 --> 00:54:27.665
who
00:54:27.665 --> 00:54:28.235
we are
00:54:29.030 --> 00:54:29.390
and,
00:54:29.390 --> 00:54:31.010
and who we are is
00:54:31.430 --> 00:54:31.580
the
00:54:31.580 --> 00:54:32.030
way Frank
00:54:32.030 --> 00:54:32.540
described
00:54:32.540 --> 00:54:32.660
it
00:54:32.660 --> 00:54:33.500
right now is
00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:33.950
not,
00:54:34.479 --> 00:54:35.199
a bad place to
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:35.319
be
00:54:35.319 --> 00:54:36.219
in the marketplace.
00:54:36.369 --> 00:54:36.489
I
00:54:36.489 --> 00:54:36.789
think a
00:54:36.789 --> 00:54:37.059
lot of
00:54:37.059 --> 00:54:37.329
people
00:54:37.329 --> 00:54:37.479
would
00:54:37.479 --> 00:54:37.809
choose
00:54:37.809 --> 00:54:38.109
that,
00:54:38.499 --> 00:54:38.979
but
00:54:39.609 --> 00:54:42.459
like many, like many charters
00:54:42.489 --> 00:54:42.849
or,
00:54:42.909 --> 00:54:43.029
you
00:54:43.029 --> 00:54:43.179
know,
00:54:43.179 --> 00:54:43.359
they
00:54:43.359 --> 00:54:43.749
start
00:54:43.749 --> 00:54:44.169
out
00:54:44.319 --> 00:54:44.859
in a certain
00:54:44.859 --> 00:54:45.189
way
00:54:45.219 --> 00:54:45.399
and
00:54:45.399 --> 00:54:45.579
then
00:54:45.609 --> 00:54:45.879
they
00:54:45.909 --> 00:54:46.599
devolve.
00:54:47.169 --> 00:54:47.649
So
00:54:47.649 --> 00:54:47.739
I
00:54:47.739 --> 00:54:47.949
think
00:54:47.949 --> 00:54:48.039
we
00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:48.249
have to
00:54:48.249 --> 00:54:48.369
be
00:54:48.369 --> 00:54:49.209
very careful
00:54:49.269 --> 00:54:49.899
about,
00:54:49.959 --> 00:54:53.319
uh, about maintaining that, that instructional vision
00:54:53.499 --> 00:54:53.739
so
00:54:53.739 --> 00:54:54.039
that
00:54:54.189 --> 00:54:54.519
people
00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:57.489
have an expectation of, you know, you come to here in this school
00:54:57.489 --> 00:54:58.089
district, this
00:54:58.089 --> 00:54:58.209
is,
00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:58.419
this
00:54:58.419 --> 00:54:58.689
is what
00:54:58.689 --> 00:54:59.319
you're gonna get.
00:54:59.709 --> 00:54:59.979
And,
00:54:59.979 --> 00:55:00.099
you
00:55:00.099 --> 00:55:00.219
know,
00:55:00.219 --> 00:55:00.339
and
00:55:00.339 --> 00:55:00.549
it's
00:55:00.549 --> 00:55:00.879
okay.
00:55:00.879 --> 00:55:01.479
You know, if you
00:55:01.479 --> 00:55:01.689
want
00:55:01.689 --> 00:55:01.839
your
00:55:01.839 --> 00:55:02.109
kids
00:55:02.109 --> 00:55:02.229
to
00:55:02.229 --> 00:55:02.499
be on
00:55:02.499 --> 00:55:02.919
screens
00:55:02.919 --> 00:55:03.069
eight
00:55:03.069 --> 00:55:03.699
hours a day,
00:55:03.789 --> 00:55:05.739
you know, then it's, this place isn't,
00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:06.609
isn't for you.
00:55:06.999 --> 00:55:09.219
But, but I think, you know, because of,
00:55:09.309 --> 00:55:09.459
of
00:55:09.459 --> 00:55:09.729
how
00:55:09.729 --> 00:55:10.209
effective
00:55:10.209 --> 00:55:10.359
we
00:55:10.359 --> 00:55:11.469
know we can be
00:55:11.499 --> 00:55:13.269
with the, with the technology
00:55:13.269 --> 00:55:13.419
to
00:55:13.419 --> 00:55:14.139
augment
00:55:14.649 --> 00:55:15.129
quality
00:55:15.129 --> 00:55:18.454
instruction, I, I think, I think we can create some good product.
00:55:19.504 --> 00:55:19.714
Frank: I
00:55:19.714 --> 00:55:20.044
think,
00:55:20.044 --> 00:55:20.404
um,
00:55:20.764 --> 00:55:21.004
the
00:55:21.004 --> 00:55:21.784
book is really
00:55:21.784 --> 00:55:22.534
augmented,
00:55:22.594 --> 00:55:23.074
um,
00:55:23.104 --> 00:55:23.584
by
00:55:23.614 --> 00:55:24.004
teacher
00:55:24.004 --> 00:55:24.544
interviews
00:55:24.574 --> 00:55:24.724
that
00:55:24.724 --> 00:55:24.844
we
00:55:24.844 --> 00:55:24.854
did.
00:55:24.854 --> 00:55:25.264
We probably
00:55:25.264 --> 00:55:25.414
did
00:55:25.414 --> 00:55:25.684
like three
00:55:25.714 --> 00:55:26.014
dozen
00:55:26.014 --> 00:55:28.504
teacher interviews, uh, k
00:55:28.504 --> 00:55:28.774
through
00:55:28.774 --> 00:55:30.274
college across the
00:55:30.274 --> 00:55:31.054
country,
00:55:31.354 --> 00:55:31.834
small
00:55:31.834 --> 00:55:32.584
districts,
00:55:32.704 --> 00:55:33.154
huge
00:55:33.154 --> 00:55:33.904
districts,
00:55:33.964 --> 00:55:34.264
uh,
00:55:34.264 --> 00:55:35.194
suburban districts,
00:55:35.224 --> 00:55:36.634
urban districts, rural
00:55:36.634 --> 00:55:37.174
districts.
00:55:37.452 --> 00:55:37.662
one
00:55:37.662 --> 00:55:37.722
of
00:55:37.722 --> 00:55:37.932
the things
00:55:37.932 --> 00:55:38.052
we
00:55:38.052 --> 00:55:38.502
noticed
00:55:38.502 --> 00:55:39.042
is that
00:55:39.537 --> 00:55:39.627
a
00:55:39.627 --> 00:55:39.897
lot
00:55:39.897 --> 00:55:39.957
of
00:55:39.957 --> 00:55:40.347
teachers
00:55:40.347 --> 00:55:40.737
talked
00:55:40.737 --> 00:55:41.097
about
00:55:41.397 --> 00:55:42.177
parents starting
00:55:42.177 --> 00:55:43.107
to push back
00:55:44.127 --> 00:55:46.492
On the amount of screen And
00:55:47.127 --> 00:55:47.337
in
00:55:47.337 --> 00:55:47.847
some.
00:55:47.907 --> 00:55:48.627
Districts
00:55:48.627 --> 00:55:48.807
where
00:55:48.807 --> 00:55:48.927
the
00:55:48.927 --> 00:55:49.317
te the
00:55:49.347 --> 00:55:49.617
teachers
00:55:49.617 --> 00:55:49.737
we
00:55:49.737 --> 00:55:50.157
interviewed
00:55:50.157 --> 00:55:50.307
for
00:55:50.307 --> 00:55:52.017
one particular subset of questions,
00:55:52.737 --> 00:55:52.887
we
00:55:52.887 --> 00:55:53.097
needed
00:55:53.097 --> 00:55:53.217
them
00:55:53.217 --> 00:55:54.117
to have been in
00:55:54.117 --> 00:55:54.207
the
00:55:54.207 --> 00:55:55.317
classroom teaching the
00:55:55.317 --> 00:55:55.617
same
00:55:55.617 --> 00:55:56.067
grade
00:55:56.937 --> 00:55:57.807
or close
00:55:58.077 --> 00:55:58.287
in
00:55:58.287 --> 00:55:58.767
a similar
00:55:58.767 --> 00:55:59.937
socioeconomic level,
00:56:00.297 --> 00:56:00.664
20
00:56:00.664 --> 00:56:01.032
14,
00:56:01.032 --> 00:56:01.399
20
00:56:01.399 --> 00:56:02.337
24. 'cause we
00:56:02.337 --> 00:56:02.427
were
00:56:02.427 --> 00:56:02.697
asking
00:56:02.697 --> 00:56:04.567
questions like comparing, comparing,
00:56:04.567 --> 00:56:04.777
you know,
00:56:04.777 --> 00:56:07.207
student, behaviors
00:56:07.207 --> 00:56:07.597
and such.
00:56:08.167 --> 00:56:08.347
and
00:56:08.347 --> 00:56:08.677
what
00:56:08.677 --> 00:56:09.097
we
00:56:09.127 --> 00:56:09.367
heard
00:56:09.367 --> 00:56:09.967
from them is
00:56:09.967 --> 00:56:10.327
that
00:56:10.927 --> 00:56:11.077
the
00:56:11.077 --> 00:56:11.407
same
00:56:11.407 --> 00:56:12.217
parents who in
00:56:12.217 --> 00:56:13.297
2014
00:56:13.957 --> 00:56:14.197
for
00:56:14.197 --> 00:56:14.827
their older
00:56:14.827 --> 00:56:15.217
kids
00:56:15.217 --> 00:56:15.337
were
00:56:15.337 --> 00:56:16.147
advocating, you
00:56:16.147 --> 00:56:16.627
know, more
00:56:16.627 --> 00:56:16.717
and
00:56:16.717 --> 00:56:16.957
more
00:56:16.957 --> 00:56:17.077
and
00:56:17.077 --> 00:56:17.527
more,
00:56:17.737 --> 00:56:18.337
you gotta catch
00:56:18.337 --> 00:56:18.547
up.
00:56:18.547 --> 00:56:18.997
We gotta catch
00:56:19.027 --> 00:56:19.297
up
00:56:19.927 --> 00:56:20.227
by
00:56:20.227 --> 00:56:21.277
2024.
00:56:21.307 --> 00:56:21.877
We're saying
00:56:21.877 --> 00:56:22.027
for
00:56:22.027 --> 00:56:22.507
their younger
00:56:22.507 --> 00:56:22.867
kids,
00:56:23.197 --> 00:56:23.317
let's
00:56:23.317 --> 00:56:23.617
get them
00:56:23.617 --> 00:56:23.857
off
00:56:24.067 --> 00:56:24.457
too much
00:56:24.457 --> 00:56:24.937
screen time.
00:56:25.507 --> 00:56:25.987
Um,
00:56:26.197 --> 00:56:26.347
the
00:56:26.347 --> 00:56:26.557
same
00:56:26.557 --> 00:56:27.097
parents.
00:56:27.457 --> 00:56:27.967
And so
00:56:27.967 --> 00:56:28.597
I think
00:56:28.837 --> 00:56:29.467
that
00:56:30.247 --> 00:56:30.577
there's
00:56:30.577 --> 00:56:31.687
a groundswell
00:56:32.437 --> 00:56:32.617
and
00:56:32.617 --> 00:56:32.947
it isn't
00:56:32.947 --> 00:56:33.607
just the books,
00:56:33.607 --> 00:56:33.877
it isn't
00:56:33.877 --> 00:56:34.057
just
00:56:34.057 --> 00:56:34.327
digital
00:56:34.327 --> 00:56:34.747
delusions.
00:56:34.747 --> 00:56:35.197
It isn't just
00:56:35.197 --> 00:56:35.587
ours.
00:56:35.587 --> 00:56:35.647
It
00:56:35.647 --> 00:56:35.857
isn't
00:56:35.857 --> 00:56:36.037
just
00:56:36.037 --> 00:56:36.127
the
00:56:36.127 --> 00:56:36.517
articles
00:56:36.517 --> 00:56:38.917
in the, in education next and in in New York Times,
00:56:39.367 --> 00:56:39.727
I think
00:56:39.727 --> 00:56:39.877
that
00:56:40.267 --> 00:56:40.687
parents
00:56:40.687 --> 00:56:40.837
are
00:56:40.837 --> 00:56:41.347
seeing
00:56:41.347 --> 00:56:41.587
it.
00:56:41.617 --> 00:56:41.947
Um,
00:56:42.307 --> 00:56:42.457
we
00:56:42.457 --> 00:56:42.547
were
00:56:42.547 --> 00:56:44.347
doing some research just for promotional
00:56:44.347 --> 00:56:44.917
purposes.
00:56:45.247 --> 00:56:45.427
We
00:56:45.427 --> 00:56:45.727
found a
00:56:45.727 --> 00:56:46.327
Facebook
00:56:46.327 --> 00:56:46.807
group.
00:56:47.287 --> 00:56:47.707
that's
00:56:47.707 --> 00:56:47.917
like
00:56:47.917 --> 00:56:48.787
reduced my kids'
00:56:48.787 --> 00:56:49.147
screen
00:56:49.147 --> 00:56:49.597
time,
00:56:49.957 --> 00:56:50.347
something
00:56:50.347 --> 00:56:50.557
like
00:56:50.557 --> 00:56:50.857
that.
00:56:51.307 --> 00:56:52.327
280,000
00:56:52.327 --> 00:56:52.677
members
00:56:53.527 --> 00:56:54.607
of parent members in the
00:56:54.607 --> 00:56:55.147
us.
00:56:55.147 --> 00:56:55.447
I mean, That's
00:56:55.447 --> 00:56:55.507
a
00:56:55.507 --> 00:56:56.767
pretty big group.
00:56:56.917 --> 00:56:57.187
There's
00:56:57.187 --> 00:56:57.427
a,
00:56:57.907 --> 00:56:58.117
there's
00:56:58.117 --> 00:56:58.177
a
00:56:58.177 --> 00:56:58.777
groundswell
00:56:58.777 --> 00:56:59.017
for
00:56:59.017 --> 00:56:59.107
it.
00:56:59.107 --> 00:56:59.317
So I
00:56:59.317 --> 00:56:59.947
think that,
00:56:59.977 --> 00:57:00.377
um,
00:57:01.747 --> 00:57:01.987
like
00:57:01.987 --> 00:57:02.467
Jean said,
00:57:02.467 --> 00:57:02.677
if
00:57:02.677 --> 00:57:03.337
you want
00:57:03.367 --> 00:57:03.577
your
00:57:03.577 --> 00:57:03.967
child
00:57:03.967 --> 00:57:04.087
to
00:57:04.087 --> 00:57:05.407
have that, you're gonna definitely
00:57:05.407 --> 00:57:05.677
have
00:57:05.677 --> 00:57:06.577
the option if you
00:57:06.577 --> 00:57:07.087
want it to be
00:57:07.087 --> 00:57:07.237
on
00:57:07.237 --> 00:57:08.587
a screen for six, eight hours a
00:57:09.227 --> 00:57:09.617
parents
00:57:09.617 --> 00:57:09.857
didn't
00:57:09.857 --> 00:57:10.877
choose this.
00:57:11.297 --> 00:57:11.957
They didn't choose what
00:57:11.957 --> 00:57:12.797
we're seeing right now.
00:57:13.187 --> 00:57:14.447
And that's what we need to walk back,
00:57:15.017 --> 00:57:15.467
is
00:57:15.472 --> 00:57:15.492
that
00:57:15.492 --> 00:57:16.847
if they want that choice, they can
00:57:16.847 --> 00:57:17.117
have
00:57:17.117 --> 00:57:17.267
it.
00:57:17.927 --> 00:57:19.337
But this isn't what we should be doing
00:57:19.337 --> 00:57:20.017
in the mainstream public
00:57:21.212 --> 00:57:21.557
Gene Tavernetti: And I, and I
00:57:21.562 --> 00:57:22.772
think the big
00:57:23.312 --> 00:57:24.062
a big takeaway
00:57:24.062 --> 00:57:25.532
is nobody made this choice.
00:57:26.042 --> 00:57:26.702
It just happened.
00:57:26.759 --> 00:57:27.287
Bart: just happened.
00:57:27.827 --> 00:57:28.007
Yeah.
00:57:28.967 --> 00:57:31.037
I've really appreciated this conversation.
00:57:31.357 --> 00:57:34.297
In closing, I'd like to ask you what gives you hope?
00:57:35.005 --> 00:57:35.575
Gene Tavernetti: you know, there
00:57:35.575 --> 00:57:37.444
is A reaction.
00:57:37.444 --> 00:57:37.984
Unfortunately,
00:57:37.984 --> 00:57:40.399
it's another pendulum swing, from all
00:57:40.399 --> 00:57:40.489
of
00:57:40.489 --> 00:57:41.209
these screens to
00:57:41.209 --> 00:57:41.779
no screen
00:57:41.779 --> 00:57:42.109
time.
00:57:42.469 --> 00:57:42.889
That's
00:57:42.889 --> 00:57:43.219
not,
00:57:43.279 --> 00:57:43.549
that's
00:57:43.549 --> 00:57:43.759
not
00:57:43.759 --> 00:57:44.359
sustainable,
00:57:44.359 --> 00:57:45.319
That's not reality.
00:57:45.319 --> 00:57:47.389
That is not where we're going.
00:57:47.871 --> 00:57:49.101
so I, I, I think
00:57:49.101 --> 00:57:49.191
the
00:57:49.191 --> 00:57:51.231
fact that there are 280,000,
00:57:51.231 --> 00:57:52.491
I think that there are people,
00:57:52.491 --> 00:57:52.611
you
00:57:52.611 --> 00:57:54.261
know, stepping, stepping forward.
00:57:54.741 --> 00:57:55.551
Uh, that
00:57:55.551 --> 00:57:55.791
gives
00:57:55.791 --> 00:57:56.391
me hope.
00:57:56.644 --> 00:57:57.871
what diminishes
00:57:57.871 --> 00:57:58.201
that,
00:57:58.411 --> 00:57:59.491
that hopefulness
00:57:59.491 --> 00:57:59.611
a
00:57:59.611 --> 00:57:59.881
little
00:57:59.881 --> 00:58:00.181
bit
00:58:00.241 --> 00:58:00.451
is
00:58:00.451 --> 00:58:00.661
that
00:58:00.661 --> 00:58:00.811
it's
00:58:00.811 --> 00:58:01.921
always an overreaction.
00:58:02.627 --> 00:58:02.987
you
00:58:02.987 --> 00:58:03.227
know,
00:58:03.257 --> 00:58:03.527
we,
00:58:03.527 --> 00:58:04.277
we can see that
00:58:04.277 --> 00:58:04.607
in,
00:58:04.607 --> 00:58:04.817
in
00:58:04.817 --> 00:58:06.437
many of the things that are going on,
00:58:06.737 --> 00:58:08.417
like in schools of choice right
00:58:08.417 --> 00:58:08.747
now,
00:58:08.837 --> 00:58:12.497
where in states where they could take their kids someplace else.
00:58:12.767 --> 00:58:13.277
The question
00:58:13.277 --> 00:58:13.427
is,
00:58:13.427 --> 00:58:13.577
what
00:58:13.577 --> 00:58:14.027
happens?
00:58:14.057 --> 00:58:14.897
What happens to the
00:58:14.897 --> 00:58:15.227
students
00:58:15.227 --> 00:58:16.247
that, that, have
00:58:16.247 --> 00:58:16.607
special
00:58:16.607 --> 00:58:17.027
needs?
00:58:17.567 --> 00:58:17.747
They
00:58:17.747 --> 00:58:18.377
don't worry about
00:58:18.377 --> 00:58:18.587
them,
00:58:18.947 --> 00:58:19.067
you
00:58:19.067 --> 00:58:19.277
know,
00:58:19.397 --> 00:58:19.577
but
00:58:19.577 --> 00:58:21.137
that's something that, again,
00:58:21.137 --> 00:58:21.317
this
00:58:21.317 --> 00:58:21.407
is
00:58:21.407 --> 00:58:21.647
going
00:58:21.647 --> 00:58:23.207
back to institutional memory.
00:58:23.357 --> 00:58:24.347
This isn't new.
00:58:24.797 --> 00:58:24.947
You
00:58:24.947 --> 00:58:25.097
know,
00:58:25.097 --> 00:58:26.267
we have these,
00:58:26.327 --> 00:58:26.597
these
00:58:26.597 --> 00:58:26.897
things
00:58:26.897 --> 00:58:27.017
in
00:58:27.017 --> 00:58:27.527
place
00:58:27.557 --> 00:58:28.067
because of
00:58:28.067 --> 00:58:28.787
who we
00:58:28.877 --> 00:58:29.207
were
00:58:29.207 --> 00:58:29.807
before
00:58:30.017 --> 00:58:30.287
and we
00:58:30.287 --> 00:58:30.407
need,
00:58:30.407 --> 00:58:30.947
and we needed
00:58:30.947 --> 00:58:31.637
to get better.
00:58:32.147 --> 00:58:32.687
So,
00:58:32.778 --> 00:58:33.048
what
00:58:33.048 --> 00:58:33.468
gives me
00:58:33.468 --> 00:58:33.828
hope?
00:58:34.818 --> 00:58:35.238
More
00:58:35.238 --> 00:58:35.628
people
00:58:35.628 --> 00:58:36.648
thinking about,
00:58:36.708 --> 00:58:37.188
um,
00:58:37.818 --> 00:58:37.938
you
00:58:37.938 --> 00:58:38.058
know,
00:58:38.058 --> 00:58:38.748
there's a better way
00:58:38.748 --> 00:58:38.868
to
00:58:38.868 --> 00:58:39.048
do
00:58:39.048 --> 00:58:39.708
education
00:58:40.470 --> 00:58:40.560
Frank: I
00:58:40.560 --> 00:58:40.770
think
00:58:40.770 --> 00:58:40.980
Jean
00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:41.100
might
00:58:41.100 --> 00:58:41.160
be
00:58:41.160 --> 00:58:41.340
more
00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:41.730
hopeful
00:58:41.730 --> 00:58:41.910
than
00:58:41.910 --> 00:58:42.090
me,
00:58:42.090 --> 00:58:42.360
but,
00:58:42.390 --> 00:58:42.870
um,
00:58:43.305 --> 00:58:43.905
talking about
00:58:43.905 --> 00:58:43.965
the
00:58:43.965 --> 00:58:44.445
institutional
00:58:44.445 --> 00:58:44.835
memory,
00:58:44.835 --> 00:58:44.895
you
00:58:44.895 --> 00:58:45.645
know, there, if
00:58:45.645 --> 00:58:46.365
you go back,
00:58:47.115 --> 00:58:47.355
at
00:58:47.355 --> 00:58:47.775
least as
00:58:47.775 --> 00:58:48.015
far
00:58:48.015 --> 00:58:48.225
back
00:58:48.225 --> 00:58:48.345
as
00:58:48.345 --> 00:58:48.675
Madeline
00:58:48.675 --> 00:58:49.815
Hunter in the sixties and
00:58:49.815 --> 00:58:51.375
seventies, uh,
00:58:51.375 --> 00:58:51.525
the
00:58:51.525 --> 00:58:51.975
Effective
00:58:51.975 --> 00:58:53.055
Schools movement,
00:58:53.085 --> 00:58:54.375
uh, Ronald Edmonds,
00:58:55.035 --> 00:58:56.325
uh, Marzano
00:58:57.295 --> 00:58:57.915
the nineties and
00:58:57.915 --> 00:58:58.035
two
00:58:58.035 --> 00:58:58.785
thousands,
00:58:58.785 --> 00:59:00.195
the, and now his
00:59:00.255 --> 00:59:00.855
evaluation
00:59:00.855 --> 00:59:01.245
center,
00:59:01.785 --> 00:59:02.475
the
00:59:02.775 --> 00:59:03.315
19 90,
00:59:03.315 --> 00:59:03.585
90,
00:59:03.585 --> 00:59:04.165
schools,
00:59:05.088 --> 00:59:05.715
the
00:59:06.075 --> 00:59:06.735
the New Teacher
00:59:06.735 --> 00:59:07.365
Project
00:59:07.425 --> 00:59:07.635
Teach
00:59:07.635 --> 00:59:07.755
for
00:59:07.755 --> 00:59:08.175
America,
00:59:08.175 --> 00:59:08.265
which
00:59:08.265 --> 00:59:10.257
is how I started How
00:59:10.257 --> 00:59:10.287
I
00:59:10.287 --> 00:59:11.097
got into teaching.
00:59:11.483 --> 00:59:11.813
we,
00:59:11.843 --> 00:59:12.083
we
00:59:12.083 --> 00:59:12.443
know
00:59:12.443 --> 00:59:12.593
that
00:59:12.593 --> 00:59:13.793
there's an alternative path
00:59:13.793 --> 00:59:14.243
that is actually
00:59:14.243 --> 00:59:14.813
a very
00:59:15.113 --> 00:59:15.683
good,
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:17.180
Path and, and, and
00:59:17.180 --> 00:59:17.300
we
00:59:17.300 --> 00:59:17.480
know
00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:17.960
how,
00:59:18.650 --> 00:59:18.890
what
00:59:18.890 --> 00:59:19.580
we should be doing in
00:59:20.630 --> 00:59:20.840
The
00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:21.320
question
00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:21.440
that
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:21.680
Ronald
00:59:21.860 --> 00:59:23.780
Mond's, uh, the effect of schools movement task is
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:24.020
how
00:59:24.020 --> 00:59:24.080
do
00:59:24.080 --> 00:59:24.350
we feel
00:59:24.350 --> 00:59:26.481
about the fact that we haven't so
00:59:26.481 --> 00:59:27.021
that's the
00:59:27.021 --> 00:59:27.411
hope.
00:59:27.441 --> 00:59:27.801
The hope
00:59:27.801 --> 00:59:27.921
is
00:59:27.921 --> 00:59:28.161
that
00:59:28.371 --> 00:59:28.701
we
00:59:28.701 --> 00:59:28.941
know
00:59:28.941 --> 00:59:29.751
what we've gotta do.
00:59:30.621 --> 00:59:30.951
My
00:59:30.951 --> 00:59:31.941
concern
00:59:32.381 --> 00:59:32.951
is,
00:59:32.951 --> 00:59:33.251
and this is
00:59:33.251 --> 00:59:33.431
part
00:59:33.431 --> 00:59:33.491
of
00:59:33.491 --> 00:59:33.581
our
00:59:33.581 --> 00:59:33.881
parent
00:59:33.881 --> 00:59:34.361
education
00:59:34.361 --> 00:59:34.601
series,
00:59:34.631 --> 00:59:34.721
' cause
00:59:34.721 --> 00:59:34.871
we
00:59:34.871 --> 00:59:35.021
also
00:59:35.021 --> 00:59:35.411
do parent
00:59:35.411 --> 00:59:35.891
education,
00:59:35.891 --> 00:59:36.041
which
00:59:36.041 --> 00:59:36.851
is actually another piece
00:59:36.851 --> 00:59:36.971
of
00:59:36.971 --> 00:59:37.661
it that I think
00:59:37.721 --> 00:59:38.321
is something we
00:59:38.321 --> 00:59:41.111
do that nobody else we're also working with
00:59:41.111 --> 00:59:41.171
the
00:59:41.171 --> 00:59:41.591
parents,
00:59:42.011 --> 00:59:42.491
is
00:59:42.491 --> 00:59:43.121
that
00:59:44.291 --> 00:59:44.531
I'm
00:59:44.531 --> 00:59:44.621
not
00:59:44.621 --> 00:59:44.801
gonna
00:59:44.801 --> 00:59:45.341
name any.
00:59:45.956 --> 00:59:46.376
companies.
00:59:46.376 --> 00:59:46.436
I
00:59:46.436 --> 00:59:46.526
don't
00:59:46.526 --> 00:59:46.826
wanna get su
00:59:46.856 --> 00:59:46.976
we
00:59:46.976 --> 00:59:47.366
don't want, we
00:59:47.366 --> 00:59:47.456
don't
00:59:47.511 --> 00:59:47.671
want to
00:59:47.676 --> 00:59:47.786
get
00:59:47.786 --> 00:59:48.116
sued.
00:59:48.596 --> 00:59:48.866
But,
00:59:48.866 --> 00:59:48.986
you
00:59:48.986 --> 00:59:49.316
know,
00:59:49.556 --> 00:59:49.856
in,
00:59:49.856 --> 00:59:50.036
uh,
00:59:50.036 --> 00:59:51.266
in the prologue of
00:59:51.266 --> 00:59:51.926
the book where the
00:59:51.926 --> 00:59:52.646
superintendent is
00:59:52.646 --> 00:59:53.516
really pitching, we're
00:59:53.516 --> 00:59:53.666
gonna
00:59:53.666 --> 00:59:54.536
go after this money
00:59:54.986 --> 00:59:55.136
and
00:59:55.136 --> 00:59:55.256
we
00:59:55.256 --> 00:59:55.406
need
00:59:55.406 --> 00:59:55.496
to
00:59:55.496 --> 00:59:55.646
get
00:59:55.646 --> 00:59:55.706
a
00:59:55.706 --> 00:59:55.946
screen
00:59:55.946 --> 00:59:56.246
in front of
00:59:56.246 --> 00:59:56.726
every kid.
00:59:56.726 --> 00:59:57.536
He talks about,
00:59:57.680 --> 00:59:58.250
getting
00:59:58.250 --> 00:59:58.790
a particular
00:59:58.790 --> 00:59:59.060
type
00:59:59.060 --> 00:59:59.270
of
00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:00.110
laptop
01:00:00.110 --> 01:00:02.420
into every child's hand because
01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:02.930
the
01:00:03.050 --> 01:00:03.410
digital
01:00:03.410 --> 01:00:04.700
companies are being great social
01:00:04.700 --> 01:00:05.360
citizens.
01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:05.960
They're
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:07.340
helping the kids get
01:00:07.340 --> 01:00:07.820
access
01:00:07.820 --> 01:00:08.030
to the
01:00:08.030 --> 01:00:08.570
screens.
01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:09.110
They're
01:00:09.110 --> 01:00:09.470
helping
01:00:09.470 --> 01:00:09.920
write
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.160
the,
01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:10.670
the common
01:00:10.670 --> 01:00:11.150
core
01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:12.680
assessments, you know, smarter balance in
01:00:12.680 --> 01:00:13.070
the park.
01:00:13.388 --> 01:00:13.778
and
01:00:13.778 --> 01:00:14.138
later
01:00:14.138 --> 01:00:14.258
on
01:00:14.258 --> 01:00:14.378
we
01:00:14.378 --> 01:00:14.618
found
01:00:14.618 --> 01:00:14.918
out
01:00:15.368 --> 01:00:15.518
that
01:00:15.518 --> 01:00:15.728
some of
01:00:15.728 --> 01:00:15.878
those
01:00:15.878 --> 01:00:16.028
same
01:00:16.028 --> 01:00:16.718
companies
01:00:16.898 --> 01:00:17.078
were
01:00:17.078 --> 01:00:18.248
data mining those
01:00:18.248 --> 01:00:18.848
kids
01:00:19.478 --> 01:00:19.688
as
01:00:19.688 --> 01:00:20.648
young as four years
01:00:20.648 --> 01:00:21.068
old.
01:00:21.728 --> 01:00:22.358
So
01:00:22.358 --> 01:00:22.748
I, what
01:00:22.748 --> 01:00:22.988
gives
01:00:22.988 --> 01:00:23.138
me
01:00:23.138 --> 01:00:25.118
pause is that,
01:00:25.658 --> 01:00:26.138
that
01:00:26.678 --> 01:00:26.948
there's
01:00:26.948 --> 01:00:27.368
a villain
01:00:27.368 --> 01:00:27.488
on
01:00:27.488 --> 01:00:27.578
the
01:00:27.578 --> 01:00:27.758
other
01:00:28.568 --> 01:00:28.688
You
01:00:28.688 --> 01:00:28.808
know,
01:00:28.808 --> 01:00:28.868
it
01:00:28.868 --> 01:00:29.198
wasn't
01:00:29.198 --> 01:00:29.258
a
01:00:29.258 --> 01:00:29.678
conscious
01:00:29.678 --> 01:00:29.978
choice
01:00:29.978 --> 01:00:30.128
by
01:00:30.128 --> 01:00:31.868
schools to go down this path.
01:00:32.678 --> 01:00:33.038
It was
01:00:33.038 --> 01:00:33.128
this
01:00:33.128 --> 01:00:33.608
broader
01:00:33.608 --> 01:00:34.658
digital immersion,
01:00:35.048 --> 01:00:35.288
but
01:00:35.288 --> 01:00:35.708
there was
01:00:35.708 --> 01:00:35.768
a
01:00:35.768 --> 01:00:36.248
conscious
01:00:36.248 --> 01:00:36.548
choice.
01:00:36.548 --> 01:00:37.028
So folks
01:00:37.028 --> 01:00:37.148
who
01:00:37.148 --> 01:00:37.418
are
01:00:37.448 --> 01:00:37.838
data
01:00:37.868 --> 01:00:38.198
mining,
01:00:38.198 --> 01:00:38.528
four
01:00:38.528 --> 01:00:39.218
year olds,
01:00:39.218 --> 01:00:39.698
five year
01:00:39.698 --> 01:00:40.028
olds.
01:00:40.433 --> 01:00:40.883
They
01:00:41.243 --> 01:00:41.393
who
01:00:41.393 --> 01:00:42.083
were giving
01:00:42.473 --> 01:00:42.893
free
01:00:42.893 --> 01:00:43.343
email
01:00:43.343 --> 01:00:43.733
access,
01:00:43.733 --> 01:00:43.913
let's
01:00:43.913 --> 01:00:44.303
say.
01:00:44.483 --> 01:00:44.693
But
01:00:44.693 --> 01:00:45.533
then data mining
01:00:45.533 --> 01:00:45.683
what
01:00:45.683 --> 01:00:45.773
the
01:00:45.773 --> 01:00:46.043
kids
01:00:46.043 --> 01:00:46.163
were
01:00:46.163 --> 01:00:46.643
writing so
01:00:46.643 --> 01:00:46.763
that
01:00:46.763 --> 01:00:46.853
they
01:00:46.853 --> 01:00:47.723
can market to them a
01:00:47.723 --> 01:00:48.053
few years
01:00:48.053 --> 01:00:48.503
later.
01:00:49.163 --> 01:00:49.373
There
01:00:49.373 --> 01:00:50.033
definitely is a
01:00:50.033 --> 01:00:52.838
villain in this, And that's what gives me but
01:00:53.378 --> 01:00:54.248
hopefully this
01:00:54.248 --> 01:00:57.458
groundswell, you know, the senate hearings that we're seeing now,
01:00:57.758 --> 01:00:57.968
there's
01:00:57.968 --> 01:00:58.178
gonna
01:00:58.178 --> 01:00:58.958
be enough of a.
01:00:59.765 --> 01:01:00.335
not a not a
01:01:00.335 --> 01:01:00.995
revolt, but,
01:01:01.325 --> 01:01:01.625
but
01:01:01.625 --> 01:01:02.255
a pushback.
01:01:02.705 --> 01:01:04.775
And I do hope that to Jean's
01:01:04.775 --> 01:01:05.135
point
01:01:05.405 --> 01:01:06.815
that we just don't go so far the
01:01:06.815 --> 01:01:08.465
other way that then we
01:01:08.465 --> 01:01:08.645
then
01:01:08.645 --> 01:01:09.215
lose,
01:01:09.275 --> 01:01:09.395
you
01:01:09.395 --> 01:01:09.575
know,
01:01:09.815 --> 01:01:09.965
it
01:01:09.965 --> 01:01:10.385
just becomes
01:01:10.385 --> 01:01:11.020
that pendulum again.
01:01:11.544 --> 01:01:11.694
Gene Tavernetti: I
01:01:11.694 --> 01:01:11.934
think
01:01:11.934 --> 01:01:12.564
just the
01:01:12.654 --> 01:01:12.834
of
01:01:12.834 --> 01:01:13.194
who we
01:01:13.194 --> 01:01:13.644
are
01:01:14.004 --> 01:01:14.634
in the United
01:01:14.634 --> 01:01:15.054
States,
01:01:15.384 --> 01:01:15.534
you
01:01:15.534 --> 01:01:15.954
can't tell
01:01:15.954 --> 01:01:16.074
me
01:01:16.074 --> 01:01:16.464
what to do.
01:01:17.124 --> 01:01:17.724
And then you
01:01:17.724 --> 01:01:18.174
have,
01:01:18.264 --> 01:01:19.344
uh, you know,
01:01:19.344 --> 01:01:19.674
I don't know
01:01:19.674 --> 01:01:22.494
how many school districts you worked in a, in a small school
01:01:22.494 --> 01:01:23.004
district
01:01:23.004 --> 01:01:23.784
For a while
01:01:23.844 --> 01:01:24.144
and
01:01:24.144 --> 01:01:24.234
they
01:01:24.234 --> 01:01:24.414
had
01:01:24.414 --> 01:01:24.474
a
01:01:24.474 --> 01:01:24.774
school
01:01:24.774 --> 01:01:25.254
board
01:01:25.434 --> 01:01:25.644
and
01:01:25.644 --> 01:01:26.154
they didn't
01:01:26.154 --> 01:01:26.334
want
01:01:26.334 --> 01:01:27.774
anybody telling them what to do.
01:01:28.014 --> 01:01:28.764
And so
01:01:28.794 --> 01:01:29.514
it, it, it's,
01:01:29.574 --> 01:01:29.874
it's
01:01:29.874 --> 01:01:30.504
difficult
01:01:30.714 --> 01:01:30.954
who
01:01:30.954 --> 01:01:31.164
we
01:01:31.164 --> 01:01:31.554
are,
01:01:32.184 --> 01:01:32.484
who
01:01:32.484 --> 01:01:32.664
we
01:01:32.664 --> 01:01:33.174
are
01:01:33.204 --> 01:01:33.444
is
01:01:33.444 --> 01:01:34.044
our strength
01:01:34.074 --> 01:01:34.404
and who
01:01:34.404 --> 01:01:34.584
we
01:01:34.584 --> 01:01:34.854
are
01:01:34.884 --> 01:01:35.184
is,
01:01:35.184 --> 01:01:35.934
uh, makes
01:01:35.964 --> 01:01:36.624
anything
01:01:37.014 --> 01:01:37.674
changing
01:01:37.704 --> 01:01:38.514
education
01:01:38.544 --> 01:01:39.174
difficult.
01:01:40.494 --> 01:01:40.794
Bart: Yes.
01:01:42.174 --> 01:01:43.524
Well, thank you both so much.
01:01:44.274 --> 01:01:44.844
Gene Tavernetti: Thank you.
01:01:45.834 --> 01:01:46.374
Frank: Thank you Bur yeah.
01:01:46.704 --> 01:01:46.974
Gene Tavernetti: yeah.
01:01:48.386 --> 01:01:51.026
If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend.
01:01:51.326 --> 01:01:56.896
Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
01:01:57.586 --> 01:02:07.666
You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky.
01:02:08.076 --> 01:02:08.506
Tesscg.
01:02:09.496 --> 01:02:24.866
com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:03.581 --> 00:00:12.871
Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom.
00:00:13.701 --> 00:00:19.701
This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education.
00:00:20.121 --> 00:00:24.471
Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com.
00:00:24.971 --> 00:00:27.731
I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast.
00:00:27.821 --> 00:00:35.711
And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching.
00:00:36.331 --> 00:00:38.881
A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords.
00:00:39.216 --> 00:00:40.056
Only stuff that
00:00:40.056 --> 00:00:40.586
works.
00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:50.129
A little more than two years ago, Dr. Frank Rodriguez brought together a group of colleagues from across the country to discuss an issue he had been encountering in his afterschool programs.
00:00:51.284 --> 00:00:57.314
The impact of screens on children and the behaviors that seem to emerge as a result of excessive screen time.
00:00:57.577 --> 00:01:10.477
After meeting virtually for several months, the group began gathering in person to more deeply examine the issue, identifying specific challenges schools were facing, and exploring what might be done to mitigate some of those behaviors.
00:01:11.422 --> 00:01:25.522
Over time, the work evolved into developing a systematic approach that schools could use to address what we began to see as runaway technology, where technology was driving the conversation rather than serving as a tool to support learning.
00:01:26.332 --> 00:01:32.212
Not long after the idea emerged that a book should be written, one that would do more than simply point out the problem.
00:01:32.662 --> 00:01:42.352
We wanted to identify the issues clearly and more importantly, outline practical systems schools could implement to address them instead of just saying, isn't this terrible?
00:01:42.682 --> 00:01:45.322
We wanted to offer solutions that we knew could work.
00:01:45.892 --> 00:01:51.938
That effort led to the book Digital Captives, Helping Schools strike a balance between humans and hardware.
00:01:52.118 --> 00:01:55.328
Written by Frank Rodriguez, Donna Smith, and myself, gene Taber.
00:01:56.318 --> 00:02:13.928
Today we're gonna talk about that book and we're joined by a friend of the podcast and a respective voice in education, Bart Hoffman, who will guide the conversation
as we explore what schools can actually do to address this growing challenge and the benefits educators may gain from reading and applying the ideas in this book.
00:02:14.678 --> 00:02:16.958
I think you're gonna enjoy this conversation.
00:02:17.374 --> 00:02:24.754
So very excited to have, uh, an old friend Bart Hoffman here today to talk to us about our new book, digital Captives.
00:02:25.294 --> 00:02:31.144
So Bart, uh, so happy and and thankful that you're here to conduct this interview with us.
00:02:31.564 --> 00:02:31.954
Bart: Thank You
00:02:32.194 --> 00:02:37.894
You argue that schools have shifted from producing digital natives to becoming digital captives.
00:02:38.344 --> 00:02:39.664
What does that shift really mean?
00:02:40.078 --> 00:02:46.603
Frank: we started this work thinking about how students were changing over the course of, you know, the years following the pandemic.
00:02:46.864 --> 00:02:48.569
Gina and I are talking and thinking about.
00:02:49.639 --> 00:03:10.519
The start, our start of the start of our work together, back in the early part of the century, in 2004, I think 2005, um, how we, the optimism at that point was about how the technology
was gonna really transform education and make, and the students were gonna grow up in it in a very healthy way, um, and be, and be digital natives in the way that we were digital immigrants
00:03:10.519 --> 00:03:10.759
too.
00:03:11.074 --> 00:03:11.584
what happened
00:03:11.584 --> 00:03:15.514
in actuality from our perspective is that everything shifted so
00:03:15.514 --> 00:03:16.054
fast.
00:03:16.894 --> 00:03:24.092
Everything from, social media to, to now ai, but also just the internet and, and quick cut videos.
00:03:24.550 --> 00:03:29.740
that really shifted how students think and, and how we do as well, and how we interact with each other.
00:03:30.130 --> 00:03:35.860
And at some point it tipped the scales to where they went from being natives to really being.
00:03:36.235 --> 00:03:47.181
Captives to the screens, whether the screens be at home, in the phone, in the form of phones and tablets and TV or the, or at school in the form of tablets and Chromebooks.
00:03:47.654 --> 00:03:55.691
Gene Tavernetti: in addition to, in addition to that, the, the work that Frank does in his rise after school programs, he was able to see, these differences manifest.
00:03:55.841 --> 00:04:02.363
I mean, they were very clear differences, kids not being able to, uh, to pay attention as well.
00:04:02.363 --> 00:04:08.513
Executive function were not where, uh, typical five year olds, 10 year olds were.
00:04:08.633 --> 00:04:13.193
And so it was, uh, it wasn't just something that we had read in a book.
00:04:13.223 --> 00:04:15.863
I mean, Frank was experiencing it every day with his folks.
00:04:16.568 --> 00:04:16.898
Frank: Yeah.
00:04:16.928 --> 00:04:17.288
And
00:04:17.558 --> 00:04:26.978
if I can piggyback on that, actually I'm gonna say that even more than myself, my staff was experiencing it and we were experiencing it from like four year olds through 22 year olds.
00:04:26.978 --> 00:04:31.028
Because, you know, we, we employ a lot of 18, 19, 20, 22
00:04:31.028 --> 00:04:31.178
year
00:04:31.178 --> 00:04:31.538
olds,
00:04:32.018 --> 00:04:35.468
uh, in our afterschool programs, tutoring programs, summer programs, et cetera.
00:04:35.918 --> 00:04:50.751
And we were seeing that, that they were acting differently in terms of like communication, how they, how they wrote, but also even things
like eye contact or how we conducted interviews, you know, shifting to zoom how many would show up in their pajamas on the interviews.
00:04:50.931 --> 00:04:56.451
So there was definitely a shift there, but we also noticed it in the programs with like four and five year olds.
00:04:56.781 --> 00:04:59.031
Like Gene was saying, that we're having a difficult time.
00:04:59.586 --> 00:05:09.606
Assimilating to what the school structures were like, partly 'cause they missed preschool, but also partly because they were coming in, it seemed to us at the time, wired a little bit differently.
00:05:09.906 --> 00:05:13.476
So we were having those issues with four, four, and five and six year olds who were like running outta
00:05:13.476 --> 00:05:14.136
classrooms
00:05:14.526 --> 00:05:15.906
in ways we hadn't seen before.
00:05:16.176 --> 00:05:20.160
But also we had like seven and 80 year olds cutting themselves, doing self-harm threats.
00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:25.680
Uh, kids that, you know, seventh and eighth grade talk about depression in ways that they hadn't.
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:25.770
So
00:05:25.770 --> 00:05:26.130
we know that
00:05:26.130 --> 00:05:26.460
something
00:05:26.460 --> 00:05:29.820
shifted at, initially, we attributed it to the pandemic.
00:05:29.820 --> 00:05:31.920
This is 2022 we're talking about.
00:05:32.550 --> 00:05:33.030
As we
00:05:33.030 --> 00:05:42.660
got further from that and we got more into post pandemic life, we saw that those things weren't subsiding and that there were some other things tied to it as well that were going on.
00:05:42.690 --> 00:05:46.800
Not just academically, but also communication wise and social emotionally.
00:05:47.190 --> 00:05:48.570
So I think that, um.
00:05:49.350 --> 00:05:54.900
That we saw that something had tipped in the kids and the pandemic was a huge tipping point.
00:05:55.380 --> 00:05:58.860
As we got further into the research, we found that really it started prior to
00:05:58.860 --> 00:05:59.100
that.
00:05:59.497 --> 00:06:05.557
Bart: Could you talk a little bit more about when you realized that technology was moving from augmenting instruction to replacing it?
00:06:06.416 --> 00:06:10.526
Frank: I mean, we've been working in schools for together for 20, going on 22
00:06:10.526 --> 00:06:11.036
years.
00:06:11.205 --> 00:06:11.565
when,
00:06:11.565 --> 00:06:16.065
when schools first started bringing technology, I mean, I was a teacher in the 1990s and she was a
00:06:16.065 --> 00:06:16.335
teacher in
00:06:16.335 --> 00:06:17.025
the 1980s
00:06:17.385 --> 00:06:20.955
and we had, you know, like one laptop or one, one, uh, one
00:06:20.955 --> 00:06:21.405
desktop
00:06:21.405 --> 00:06:22.935
and you played
00:06:22.935 --> 00:06:23.595
Oregon Trail
00:06:23.595 --> 00:06:24.315
on it or whatever.
00:06:24.615 --> 00:06:26.115
Uh, you use it for word processing.
00:06:26.775 --> 00:06:27.315
In
00:06:27.345 --> 00:06:31.665
the early two thousands, we started seeing, you know, three or four or five
00:06:31.665 --> 00:06:32.445
imax
00:06:32.925 --> 00:06:37.653
uh, and we talk about this in the book, the evolution of that, how those then got replaced by
00:06:37.653 --> 00:06:38.133
laptop.
00:06:38.913 --> 00:06:40.983
And then the Chromebook card came in
00:06:41.343 --> 00:06:44.664
as broadband expanded, at some point in about
00:06:44.664 --> 00:06:45.894
2014. I think that's a
00:06:45.894 --> 00:06:49.644
hinge point for us in our book and other books about this as well.
00:06:49.944 --> 00:07:00.507
In the work by Jonathan Hyde and Johann Hari, about 2014, there was some sort of tipping point where like all of a sudden all the hardware was in place and what happened right at that point?
00:07:00.507 --> 00:07:08.547
If you think back to it historically, and we talk about this I think in chapter one, that No Child Left Behind went away at the end of 2015.
00:07:09.147 --> 00:07:09.567
Um,
00:07:09.627 --> 00:07:20.517
and what came in to replace it, um, essa, every Student Succeeds Act was a lot more, you know, like personally tailored instruction, less accountability on, on assessments.
00:07:20.517 --> 00:07:20.727
Not
00:07:20.727 --> 00:07:20.937
that.
00:07:22.212 --> 00:07:22.452
You know,
00:07:22.452 --> 00:07:22.692
drug
00:07:22.692 --> 00:07:24.222
coding accountability is great either.
00:07:24.222 --> 00:07:24.942
But once that
00:07:24.942 --> 00:07:25.302
shift
00:07:25.302 --> 00:07:25.782
happened,
00:07:26.048 --> 00:07:26.408
through the
00:07:26.408 --> 00:07:36.728
E-Rate, um, funding happened where funding exploded to where every district could have broadband and be able to have 30 Chromebooks on at the same time in every
00:07:36.728 --> 00:07:37.448
classroom.
00:07:37.748 --> 00:07:45.098
Once those things happened, there was like just this surge of programs that came into classrooms.
00:07:45.308 --> 00:07:48.368
And so I think the tipping point was probably 20 16, 20 17.
00:07:48.698 --> 00:07:49.658
We didn't realize that at the
00:07:49.658 --> 00:07:50.648
time, I think
00:07:50.648 --> 00:07:53.498
we realized that after the fact that wait a minute, what's happening here?
00:07:53.918 --> 00:07:55.658
And so we shifted in our own programs.
00:07:55.658 --> 00:08:08.258
We've shifted away from that into like more just interacting with each other type of work because we've seen the shift happen in the school day, in the afterschool programs and as a result of COVID.
00:08:08.258 --> 00:08:10.958
So I think all of those things together really kind of brought it
00:08:10.958 --> 00:08:11.278
together.
00:08:11.948 --> 00:08:23.506
Gene Tavernetti: And then I think for me, as I was working with, with schools, during COVID, I mean basically I thought I was retired on, you know, March 13th, 2000, and when,
00:08:23.506 --> 00:08:23.776
uh.
00:08:24.961 --> 00:08:30.541
The interest from the districts were, okay, can you coach us in how to do this distance
00:08:30.541 --> 00:08:34.021
learning how, how to do, how to do this, this virtual learning.
00:08:34.501 --> 00:08:41.391
And so, the schools got so wrapped up in that, how do we, how do we continue to provide services
00:08:41.391 --> 00:08:41.931
to kids,
00:08:41.961 --> 00:08:44.931
even though they knew they weren't doing a good job, but
00:08:45.321 --> 00:08:45.741
because
00:08:45.741 --> 00:08:47.563
of the things that, Frank had talked about.
00:08:47.563 --> 00:08:50.803
I mean, there were some schools that would just check out the Chromebooks.
00:08:50.803 --> 00:08:57.401
So the kids had, uh, they were available for lessons, and they did the best they could during that process.
00:08:57.611 --> 00:09:01.121
But when they came back, the teachers didn't give
00:09:01.121 --> 00:09:01.241
it
00:09:01.241 --> 00:09:01.541
up.
00:09:02.051 --> 00:09:02.231
The
00:09:02.231 --> 00:09:06.791
teachers, it was almost like they were doing the same type of virtual lessons, but in person with
00:09:06.791 --> 00:09:07.301
the kids.
00:09:07.451 --> 00:09:13.766
And so they are the ones that weren't giving up The laptops and the Chromebooks when we, when we came back.
00:09:14.008 --> 00:09:19.918
so even though stuff was happening before the pandemic, that distance learning, that
00:09:19.918 --> 00:09:20.454
whole,
00:09:20.631 --> 00:09:25.811
way to look at, that distance learning really made an impact on, on moving forward.
00:09:26.201 --> 00:09:26.381
So
00:09:26.381 --> 00:09:26.621
that
00:09:26.681 --> 00:09:27.131
really.
00:09:28.001 --> 00:09:28.721
that really
00:09:28.721 --> 00:09:30.641
showed me the captivity part.
00:09:30.761 --> 00:09:32.621
They were, they were captive at that point.
00:09:33.941 --> 00:09:37.631
Bart: So in a sense, the pandemic didn't create the problem, it accelerated it.
00:09:38.051 --> 00:09:41.291
What became normalized that should have remained temporary?
00:09:42.035 --> 00:09:42.245
Frank: I mean,
00:09:42.245 --> 00:09:42.665
I think
00:09:43.530 --> 00:09:45.270
education being transactional.
00:09:45.870 --> 00:09:47.010
We talk about this as well
00:09:47.010 --> 00:09:47.430
in the book,
00:09:47.430 --> 00:09:48.597
how, to me,
00:09:48.657 --> 00:09:52.647
uh, to bar to, to jean, to you, um, who are lifelong educators.
00:09:52.914 --> 00:09:53.514
education is
00:09:53.514 --> 00:09:54.354
transformational.
00:09:54.734 --> 00:09:56.024
And at that point
00:09:56.204 --> 00:09:58.754
out of necessity, I mean, we understand we were working in schools.
00:09:58.784 --> 00:10:01.514
We were all working in schools at the time on March 13th,
00:10:01.514 --> 00:10:01.694
like,
00:10:02.174 --> 00:10:05.384
like Jean mentioned, um, it became transactional.
00:10:05.384 --> 00:10:07.004
We had to have some sense of normalcy for
00:10:07.004 --> 00:10:07.574
the kiddos.
00:10:08.054 --> 00:10:08.834
And so
00:10:08.924 --> 00:10:10.364
we transitioned into,
00:10:10.424 --> 00:10:14.864
um, into the Zoom learning and to, you know, Google meets learning.
00:10:15.354 --> 00:10:16.434
Some of that never went away.
00:10:16.464 --> 00:10:18.924
We, um, walk into classrooms now.
00:10:18.924 --> 00:10:26.034
I think what differentiates our book, uh, from others that are really, that are really well written, but what differentiates us is that we're actually in classrooms.
00:10:26.034 --> 00:10:27.444
We were in classrooms together yesterday.
00:10:27.894 --> 00:10:29.904
Um, we were in 22 classrooms yesterday.
00:10:30.504 --> 00:10:33.264
I sat and planned lessons with teachers on Monday.
00:10:33.954 --> 00:10:37.494
Gene tomorrow is gonna go back and observe classrooms, uh, at a high school.
00:10:37.885 --> 00:10:43.195
And what we notice is there is such a plethora of material.
00:10:43.645 --> 00:10:43.855
There
00:10:43.855 --> 00:10:47.725
are so many companies that are vying for that digital dollar.
00:10:47.905 --> 00:10:50.905
You know, that it overwhelms teachers' decision making.
00:10:51.415 --> 00:10:51.655
And I
00:10:51.655 --> 00:10:55.036
think what's happened is that it's become like almost, too much riches.
00:10:55.546 --> 00:11:02.056
And I think that's what instead of, instead of like really thinking about what am I trying to achieve with this lesson,
00:11:02.626 --> 00:11:03.076
um, it's
00:11:03.076 --> 00:11:09.076
become more like, what of all these offerings that I can have digitally can the kids partake in?
00:11:09.196 --> 00:11:12.526
And I think that is what should have gone away that didn't go
00:11:12.526 --> 00:11:12.719
away.
00:11:14.062 --> 00:11:17.992
Bart: So based on all your observations, what most concerns you post pandemic?
00:11:18.716 --> 00:11:21.476
Gene Tavernetti: I think it goes back to things that we were doing 20 years ago.
00:11:21.836 --> 00:11:24.476
Just, you know, how do we present lessons?
00:11:24.476 --> 00:11:30.370
Well, and the way we always talked about, uh, instruction is in
00:11:30.940 --> 00:11:35.320
a well-designed, a well-designed lesson, which includes those transformational
00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:36.370
elements that, that
00:11:36.370 --> 00:11:37.480
Frank was talking about.
00:11:37.690 --> 00:11:39.714
So there is the teacher is leading.
00:11:40.331 --> 00:11:57.829
Students in conversation, in structured conversation, in lots of checking for understanding, in lots of, uh, making sure that the, the kids are paying
attention, which, which wasn't happening again, uh, during, during the pandemic, and which just was just assumed when you had the Chromebook out.
00:11:58.129 --> 00:12:09.293
you know, going back to some foundational things that, that, the research that we're, that we're looking at, I mean, it started in the fifties, sixties, that nothing's been disputed,
00:12:09.983 --> 00:12:10.313
but,
00:12:10.583 --> 00:12:16.823
uh, in this ageist society, there's just no, there is no, uh, institutional memory
00:12:16.883 --> 00:12:17.543
for stuff,
00:12:17.783 --> 00:12:19.673
you know, every, every 15 years.
00:12:19.673 --> 00:12:22.013
It seems like we're starting brand new,
00:12:22.583 --> 00:12:22.943
brand
00:12:22.943 --> 00:12:23.123
new.
00:12:23.123 --> 00:12:26.843
The things that we started out doing when we were working together, talking about, uh,
00:12:26.961 --> 00:12:30.711
using, uh, mini whiteboards, you know, to check for understanding.
00:12:30.951 --> 00:12:32.661
It's like we go back again.
00:12:33.306 --> 00:12:34.416
And never heard of it.
00:12:34.451 --> 00:12:34.671
Oh.
00:12:34.676 --> 00:12:35.346
Oh, really?
00:12:35.346 --> 00:12:36.066
Where did these come
00:12:36.066 --> 00:12:36.366
from?
00:12:36.756 --> 00:12:45.786
And so, uh, I, I, I think, you know, a lot of what we talk about in the book is, is, has been foundational since the eighties.
00:12:46.866 --> 00:12:53.106
Frank: I think, if I can piggyback on that, I think obviously those are all like classroom based concerns and a hundred percent I agree with 'em.
00:12:53.106 --> 00:12:59.682
I was telling, uh, Jean yesterday about a post that I came across, um, recently, and it said, it was a post-it
00:12:59.717 --> 00:13:00.857
that I wrote in 2015
00:13:00.857 --> 00:13:02.147
and I found it in a closet
00:13:02.147 --> 00:13:02.413
somewhere.
00:13:03.107 --> 00:13:03.257
And
00:13:03.257 --> 00:13:06.887
it said in 2000, and I wrote this in 2015, in 2005, we were working
00:13:06.887 --> 00:13:08.357
with teachers on using whiteboards
00:13:08.357 --> 00:13:08.777
to check for
00:13:08.777 --> 00:13:09.377
understanding.
00:13:10.532 --> 00:13:11.612
In 2015,
00:13:11.732 --> 00:13:12.452
we're working with
00:13:12.452 --> 00:13:14.222
teachers on using whiteboards to check
00:13:14.222 --> 00:13:14.882
for understanding.
00:13:14.972 --> 00:13:19.082
And the question is, in 2025, we'll be using whiteboards.
00:13:19.082 --> 00:13:21.332
And the answer was, yeah, that's what we were working on last
00:13:21.332 --> 00:13:21.512
year.
00:13:21.512 --> 00:13:21.782
You know,
00:13:22.142 --> 00:13:25.052
uh, so it's, it's like gene's talking about, it's like the stuff just goes away.
00:13:25.292 --> 00:13:29.702
In the book, we talk about, um, two really well-known metaphors in education.
00:13:29.702 --> 00:13:30.962
One is a Rip Van
00:13:30.962 --> 00:13:32.132
Winkle, you
00:13:32.132 --> 00:13:34.472
know, going to sleep and waking up a hundred years later.
00:13:34.472 --> 00:13:36.482
And he wakes up and he recognizes nothing.
00:13:36.482 --> 00:13:39.872
He looks around, he sees airports and he sees, you know, cars and everything.
00:13:39.872 --> 00:13:42.422
He's got no idea what anything is until he walks into a
00:13:42.422 --> 00:13:43.712
school and then
00:13:43.712 --> 00:13:46.172
he feels like, oh, I recognize this, this is a school.
00:13:46.172 --> 00:13:46.532
Right?
00:13:46.922 --> 00:13:49.172
So that's one we talk about, but we also talk about the pendulum.
00:13:49.652 --> 00:13:54.542
And the pendulum is actually even more well known in these, just these dramatic swings in practice.
00:13:54.961 --> 00:13:58.021
now we're seeing some backlash, I think.
00:13:58.021 --> 00:14:07.091
And just in the last three days there's been a, an article in the New York Times, About, um, you know, iPads in kindergarten and parents starting to rebel against that.
00:14:07.421 --> 00:14:08.261
That was yesterday,
00:14:08.261 --> 00:14:09.101
the, the 10th.
00:14:09.491 --> 00:14:10.631
Uh, on Friday.
00:14:10.691 --> 00:14:20.861
On Monday there was an article in education, uh, next, and it talked about, um, it, it was, uh, called logged in, tuned Out regarding middle school and high school students.
00:14:21.071 --> 00:14:21.911
They're on their Chromebooks.
00:14:21.911 --> 00:14:25.931
They tune out and we see that in practice when we're in the classrooms like we were yesterday.
00:14:26.231 --> 00:14:30.791
And there was another article by the, the gentleman who wrote a Digital Delusion, which is kind of a
00:14:30.791 --> 00:14:31.391
companion,
00:14:31.691 --> 00:14:33.581
not a companion, but a complimentary book to ours.
00:14:33.971 --> 00:14:44.670
And he pat some data about how as schools locked in to more and more digital, the nap scores kind of just hit a plateau and then have, have,
00:14:44.670 --> 00:14:47.010
uh, fallen over the last, over the last 10 years.
00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:48.840
So that's all instructionally.
00:14:49.830 --> 00:14:49.920
And
00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:55.170
so what we're seeing now is this pendulum possibly swinging back the other way towards, uh.
00:14:55.230 --> 00:14:55.290
Yeah,
00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:57.060
like do away with
00:14:57.060 --> 00:14:57.480
the screens.
00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:58.470
Well, you can't do that.
00:14:58.470 --> 00:15:04.440
You know, kids need to be able to interact with technology in a healthy way and which is what we talked about, just having balance.
00:15:04.801 --> 00:15:06.931
but I wanna go back to what Jim was talking about in your
00:15:06.931 --> 00:15:08.701
question about what most scares you.
00:15:09.331 --> 00:15:09.511
And I'll
00:15:09.511 --> 00:15:13.051
tell you what most scares me is, is broader, actually the
00:15:13.051 --> 00:15:13.741
schools,
00:15:14.221 --> 00:15:16.951
um, Johann Hari and still focus talks about this.
00:15:16.951 --> 00:15:22.291
Jonathan Hyde talks about an actions generation, but I think to me, the ones that even hit it more on the head are Nicholas Carr,
00:15:22.741 --> 00:15:22.981
like
00:15:22.981 --> 00:15:31.231
in Super Bloom and, um, Timothy Wu and, in, uh, attention Merchants, and even going back to Neil Postman, uh, in the 1980s,
00:15:31.831 --> 00:15:32.191
um,
00:15:32.221 --> 00:15:36.871
about how if adult attention spans and ability to
00:15:36.871 --> 00:15:38.791
focus and communicate well.
00:15:39.376 --> 00:15:40.906
And have multiple perspectives.
00:15:40.936 --> 00:15:41.926
If those are going
00:15:41.926 --> 00:15:44.050
downhill, then what happens to the next
00:15:44.050 --> 00:15:44.650
generation?
00:15:45.130 --> 00:15:45.340
You know?
00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:58.060
And we talk about that in the book, like a second grader or a third grader who's being acclimated to more and more intensification as far as what will get their attention more and more gamification.
00:15:58.617 --> 00:15:58.887
What
00:15:58.887 --> 00:16:03.957
will they need in the fourth grade when the fourth, they need more because a dopamine rush just won't be the same, right?
00:16:04.167 --> 00:16:06.957
So you keep on accelerating and augmenting that.
00:16:07.857 --> 00:16:10.557
What happens when those kids become, you know, voting age?
00:16:10.797 --> 00:16:13.497
And what we're getting is very disposable.
00:16:13.497 --> 00:16:13.977
Attention
00:16:13.977 --> 00:16:14.757
spans, I think
00:16:14.757 --> 00:16:15.897
is how I would refer to it.
00:16:16.377 --> 00:16:25.047
And I think that's what scares me the most is how do we tackle the huge issues we have, not just in the country, but in the world when we have.
00:16:25.617 --> 00:16:27.627
A citizenry in 20 years
00:16:27.987 --> 00:16:30.537
who have attention spans of 1920 seconds, which
00:16:30.537 --> 00:16:31.497
is what the research shows.
00:16:31.497 --> 00:16:34.077
Most recently, they can, you know, college students in a,
00:16:34.407 --> 00:16:34.587
I think
00:16:34.587 --> 00:16:38.237
it was a 2023 study, they have attention spans of about 20 seconds.
00:16:39.027 --> 00:16:40.977
People our age are about two and a half
00:16:40.977 --> 00:16:43.317
minutes, but we grew up analog, Right?
00:16:43.317 --> 00:16:45.837
What happens when today's second grader
00:16:46.017 --> 00:16:46.827
is in college?
00:16:46.827 --> 00:16:48.117
What will the attention span be then?
00:16:48.117 --> 00:16:48.267
And
00:16:48.267 --> 00:16:48.987
when they're running the
00:16:48.987 --> 00:16:49.407
country?
00:16:49.767 --> 00:16:49.917
So
00:16:49.917 --> 00:16:52.077
I think that's what scares me even more globally than
00:16:52.077 --> 00:16:53.167
what's going on in the classrooms.
00:16:53.907 --> 00:16:56.127
Gene Tavernetti: And And I think something that also
00:16:56.127 --> 00:16:59.907
is scary is talking about the, um, the different timeframes.
00:16:59.907 --> 00:17:00.837
10 years, 15
00:17:00.837 --> 00:17:01.287
years,
00:17:01.707 --> 00:17:01.947
you know?
00:17:01.947 --> 00:17:09.747
So now we have, uh, teachers, teachers and administrators who since this is so normal, they don't see any dangers.
00:17:10.842 --> 00:17:12.792
You know, they have to be, they have to be pointed out.
00:17:12.972 --> 00:17:19.302
But once they're pointed out, it's very, it's very clear, you know, that you walk into a classroom and all the laptops are up.
00:17:19.662 --> 00:17:27.042
You know, we know the teacher can't see, you know, they're, oh sure there's a monitoring program, but it's just not, it's just not the same.
00:17:27.372 --> 00:17:39.222
And so, so much has been normalized and, and it's very difficult, you know, we'll do a staff development, we'll do a training for administrators, and we have to tell 'em, shut your laptops, you know, get off your phone.
00:17:39.732 --> 00:17:40.122
And that's
00:17:40.122 --> 00:17:40.752
what, that's the,
00:17:40.842 --> 00:17:43.662
what we're talking about is, is that issue with kids.
00:17:43.662 --> 00:17:55.469
So, so it is, uh, bigger than schools, like you say, it's, it's, adults really have to really have to follow that lead and first of all, acknowledge that they're there as well.
00:17:55.544 --> 00:17:55.604
Yeah.
00:17:56.294 --> 00:17:57.224
And that it's not okay.
00:17:57.224 --> 00:17:58.544
We want things to be okay.
00:17:58.544 --> 00:17:59.684
It's not okay.
00:18:00.104 --> 00:18:07.122
Uh, but, but we're also competing with, technology companies that are, you know, funded by billionaires and,
00:18:07.212 --> 00:18:09.162
and it's just the promises that
00:18:09.162 --> 00:18:09.432
they,
00:18:09.432 --> 00:18:09.672
that
00:18:09.672 --> 00:18:10.242
they make,
00:18:10.692 --> 00:18:11.112
uh,
00:18:11.112 --> 00:18:11.322
they're
00:18:11.322 --> 00:18:12.102
too seductive.
00:18:13.092 --> 00:18:15.852
Frank: Tim w talks about this in attention merchants, how things that have become
00:18:15.852 --> 00:18:16.362
normalized,
00:18:16.362 --> 00:18:16.482
that
00:18:16.482 --> 00:18:16.992
were not
00:18:16.992 --> 00:18:17.232
like
00:18:17.562 --> 00:18:18.012
having
00:18:18.012 --> 00:18:18.132
a
00:18:18.132 --> 00:18:20.112
phone at the dinner table that just was not
00:18:20.322 --> 00:18:20.472
the
00:18:20.472 --> 00:18:20.832
norm
00:18:20.832 --> 00:18:21.192
before.
00:18:21.192 --> 00:18:21.492
Right.
00:18:21.882 --> 00:18:22.302
Or, you
00:18:22.302 --> 00:18:22.992
know, back in the,
00:18:23.022 --> 00:18:24.162
maybe early
00:18:24.192 --> 00:18:26.802
2010s, if the phone rang at
00:18:26.802 --> 00:18:27.562
church,
00:18:28.752 --> 00:18:30.522
you know, the priest might make a joke about it.
00:18:30.612 --> 00:18:31.542
Oh, God's calling.
00:18:31.542 --> 00:18:33.222
You know, now it's like something
00:18:33.222 --> 00:18:33.912
you expect
00:18:33.912 --> 00:18:34.002
the
00:18:34.002 --> 00:18:34.302
phones
00:18:34.302 --> 00:18:34.422
to
00:18:34.422 --> 00:18:34.782
ring in
00:18:34.782 --> 00:18:35.772
church and it's,
00:18:35.772 --> 00:18:35.982
and
00:18:35.982 --> 00:18:36.912
there shouldn't be,
00:18:37.392 --> 00:18:38.322
but it's become like,
00:18:38.322 --> 00:18:38.532
just
00:18:38.532 --> 00:18:39.852
normalized, like, like Chino was
00:18:39.852 --> 00:18:40.182
talking
00:18:40.182 --> 00:18:40.362
about.
00:18:40.362 --> 00:18:40.542
So I
00:18:40.542 --> 00:18:40.902
think
00:18:41.592 --> 00:18:41.862
in,
00:18:41.862 --> 00:18:43.272
uh, in chapter four
00:18:43.272 --> 00:18:43.392
we
00:18:43.392 --> 00:18:43.692
talk
00:18:43.692 --> 00:18:44.022
about,
00:18:44.052 --> 00:18:45.544
um, creating a
00:18:45.544 --> 00:18:47.824
a filter in classrooms for
00:18:47.824 --> 00:18:48.334
friction
00:18:48.339 --> 00:18:48.449
just
00:18:48.514 --> 00:18:48.574
to
00:18:48.574 --> 00:18:50.284
slow down and to be
00:18:50.284 --> 00:18:51.034
more thoughtful
00:18:51.034 --> 00:18:51.214
about
00:18:51.214 --> 00:18:51.484
what
00:18:51.484 --> 00:18:51.544
we
00:18:51.544 --> 00:18:51.694
bring
00:18:51.694 --> 00:18:52.504
into classrooms.
00:18:52.894 --> 00:18:53.014
When
00:18:53.014 --> 00:18:53.134
you're
00:18:53.134 --> 00:18:53.404
thinking
00:18:53.404 --> 00:18:53.584
about
00:18:53.584 --> 00:18:54.664
a textbook adoption,
00:18:54.732 --> 00:18:56.481
it takes about a year and a half, right?
00:18:56.481 --> 00:18:57.951
To, to adopt a textbook.
00:18:57.951 --> 00:19:01.011
You have to put it out to all the different stakeholders.
00:19:01.011 --> 00:19:01.731
You have public
00:19:01.731 --> 00:19:04.521
viewings of it, you know, do a seance
00:19:04.521 --> 00:19:05.001
over it.
00:19:05.391 --> 00:19:06.561
And to finally
00:19:06.561 --> 00:19:07.131
adopt
00:19:07.161 --> 00:19:07.311
a
00:19:07.311 --> 00:19:08.121
curriculum.
00:19:08.916 --> 00:19:09.396
Or
00:19:09.396 --> 00:19:13.476
I can just go online and download an app and have it in front of kids, you know, in a heartbeat.
00:19:13.476 --> 00:19:14.346
And, and there's ways
00:19:14.346 --> 00:19:14.736
to work
00:19:14.736 --> 00:19:15.096
around
00:19:15.096 --> 00:19:15.786
district,
00:19:16.296 --> 00:19:16.596
you know,
00:19:16.596 --> 00:19:17.406
district, uh,
00:19:17.436 --> 00:19:18.336
filters and such.
00:19:18.336 --> 00:19:18.666
So
00:19:18.939 --> 00:19:19.873
we talk about that,
00:19:19.873 --> 00:19:20.816
in chapter four
00:19:20.816 --> 00:19:21.146
of the book.
00:19:21.146 --> 00:19:21.956
We also talk about
00:19:22.256 --> 00:19:22.526
how
00:19:22.526 --> 00:19:23.486
this happened
00:19:23.696 --> 00:19:25.916
in classrooms, in schools within
00:19:25.916 --> 00:19:26.036
a
00:19:26.036 --> 00:19:26.846
broader digital
00:19:26.846 --> 00:19:27.356
immersion.
00:19:27.626 --> 00:19:27.776
It
00:19:27.776 --> 00:19:29.126
didn't happen in
00:19:29.126 --> 00:19:29.906
isolation.
00:19:30.146 --> 00:19:30.296
So
00:19:30.296 --> 00:19:30.536
I think
00:19:30.536 --> 00:19:30.806
part
00:19:30.806 --> 00:19:31.796
of what happened is because
00:19:31.796 --> 00:19:32.666
we were all
00:19:32.966 --> 00:19:33.386
learning
00:19:33.386 --> 00:19:35.336
how to to shop
00:19:35.336 --> 00:19:36.596
and be entertained
00:19:36.596 --> 00:19:39.866
and book our travel and use Google
00:19:39.866 --> 00:19:40.256
Maps
00:19:40.256 --> 00:19:40.766
and such,
00:19:41.396 --> 00:19:42.296
we didn't notice the
00:19:42.326 --> 00:19:42.536
same thing
00:19:42.536 --> 00:19:42.656
was
00:19:42.656 --> 00:19:43.046
going on
00:19:43.046 --> 00:19:43.796
in schools.
00:19:44.006 --> 00:19:44.576
And that's partly
00:19:44.576 --> 00:19:44.726
why
00:19:44.726 --> 00:19:45.296
it snuck up
00:19:45.296 --> 00:19:45.626
on us, I
00:19:45.626 --> 00:19:45.896
think.
00:19:45.896 --> 00:19:46.016
And
00:19:46.016 --> 00:19:46.586
it wasn't,
00:19:47.396 --> 00:19:47.846
uh, I think
00:19:47.846 --> 00:19:48.866
maybe it was Johann Hari
00:19:48.866 --> 00:19:48.926
who
00:19:48.926 --> 00:19:49.226
talks
00:19:49.226 --> 00:19:50.996
about it, um, in stolen focus.
00:19:50.996 --> 00:19:51.326
That,
00:19:51.604 --> 00:19:51.814
what
00:19:51.814 --> 00:19:52.474
COVID did.
00:19:52.474 --> 00:19:52.624
It's
00:19:52.624 --> 00:19:53.674
almost like that frog
00:19:53.674 --> 00:19:53.914
that's
00:19:53.914 --> 00:19:54.694
boiling in the,
00:19:54.694 --> 00:19:54.814
you
00:19:54.814 --> 00:19:55.024
know, in
00:19:55.024 --> 00:19:55.504
the water.
00:19:55.684 --> 00:19:56.494
And it's turning up
00:19:56.494 --> 00:19:57.424
really slowly
00:19:58.084 --> 00:19:58.324
and it
00:19:58.324 --> 00:19:58.594
doesn't
00:19:58.594 --> 00:20:00.446
realize What's happening
00:20:00.446 --> 00:20:00.776
to it.
00:20:01.196 --> 00:20:01.526
What
00:20:01.526 --> 00:20:01.916
COVID
00:20:01.916 --> 00:20:02.786
did was it turned
00:20:02.786 --> 00:20:02.876
the
00:20:02.876 --> 00:20:03.176
heat
00:20:03.176 --> 00:20:03.476
up really
00:20:03.476 --> 00:20:05.756
fast so that all of a sudden those of us that were able
00:20:05.756 --> 00:20:07.706
to step out of it afterwards realized,
00:20:07.706 --> 00:20:09.146
Hey, something's happened
00:20:09.146 --> 00:20:09.236
here.
00:20:09.236 --> 00:20:09.416
That
00:20:09.416 --> 00:20:10.166
isn't good.
00:20:10.426 --> 00:20:10.576
and
00:20:10.576 --> 00:20:10.816
I think
00:20:10.816 --> 00:20:11.026
that's
00:20:11.026 --> 00:20:11.296
what's,
00:20:11.296 --> 00:20:12.526
you know, what's led us on this path.
00:20:12.526 --> 00:20:13.276
We started talking about
00:20:13.276 --> 00:20:13.396
this
00:20:13.396 --> 00:20:14.086
three years ago.
00:20:14.566 --> 00:20:14.956
Uh, and I'm
00:20:14.956 --> 00:20:15.346
glad to,
00:20:15.526 --> 00:20:15.676
to
00:20:15.676 --> 00:20:15.856
see
00:20:15.856 --> 00:20:16.126
that there's
00:20:16.126 --> 00:20:17.866
more, I think voices
00:20:17.866 --> 00:20:18.046
out
00:20:18.046 --> 00:20:19.306
there now saying the same thing.
00:20:20.116 --> 00:20:26.296
Bart: I also hear from teachers who report declines in working memory, sustained attention and task persistence.
00:20:26.866 --> 00:20:29.776
What does the research say about what's happening cognitively?
00:20:30.641 --> 00:20:30.971
Gene Tavernetti: Well,
00:20:30.971 --> 00:20:32.891
in digital delusions, uh,
00:20:33.851 --> 00:20:37.301
uh, there's a lot of data that that just shows
00:20:37.301 --> 00:20:38.201
declining.
00:20:38.741 --> 00:20:40.301
Declining cognitively.
00:20:40.301 --> 00:20:45.341
I mean, he's pretty, he's pretty bold in how he, how he says that he doesn't talk about a, a learning
00:20:45.341 --> 00:20:46.391
loss, but
00:20:46.391 --> 00:20:48.851
he just, you know, he's got data that, that
00:20:48.851 --> 00:20:49.391
show
00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:55.450
where the, you know, this is the first generation that, that is not doing as well as the prior generation, or
00:20:55.450 --> 00:20:55.540
at
00:20:55.540 --> 00:20:55.900
least
00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:56.050
as
00:20:56.050 --> 00:20:56.380
well.
00:20:57.010 --> 00:20:57.430
so
00:20:57.430 --> 00:20:57.640
so
00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.580
there's evidence, there's evidence out there, and it's, it's
00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:00.850
pretty
00:21:00.850 --> 00:21:01.630
indisputable.
00:21:02.207 --> 00:21:02.605
Frank: Uh, and I
00:21:02.605 --> 00:21:03.175
think, I
00:21:03.175 --> 00:21:03.445
think
00:21:03.445 --> 00:21:03.775
he,
00:21:03.775 --> 00:21:05.725
um, he talked about that
00:21:05.725 --> 00:21:06.865
this generation is
00:21:06.865 --> 00:21:06.955
the
00:21:06.955 --> 00:21:07.705
first one that is
00:21:07.705 --> 00:21:08.725
like the,
00:21:08.725 --> 00:21:08.905
the
00:21:09.055 --> 00:21:09.175
IQ
00:21:09.865 --> 00:21:13.945
is actually lower than the parents' generation by about six points in the
00:21:13.945 --> 00:21:15.235
last 120 years.
00:21:15.595 --> 00:21:16.645
More recently, just
00:21:16.645 --> 00:21:17.335
on, on Monday.
00:21:17.395 --> 00:21:19.315
I think he came out with that article that showed where
00:21:19.315 --> 00:21:19.405
the
00:21:19.405 --> 00:21:20.125
NA scores have
00:21:20.125 --> 00:21:20.575
dropped
00:21:20.965 --> 00:21:21.625
over time.
00:21:21.925 --> 00:21:22.795
But I think, so
00:21:22.795 --> 00:21:23.005
that's
00:21:23.005 --> 00:21:25.105
cognitively, but I think what we're seeing is even
00:21:25.105 --> 00:21:25.225
at
00:21:25.225 --> 00:21:26.185
the precognitive
00:21:26.185 --> 00:21:27.355
level, even
00:21:27.355 --> 00:21:29.725
things like, like holding
00:21:29.785 --> 00:21:30.895
information and working
00:21:30.895 --> 00:21:31.345
memory.
00:21:31.915 --> 00:21:37.525
And being able to carry it from that center to that center that has dropped off, you know, or
00:21:37.525 --> 00:21:39.565
things like, uh, being able to
00:21:39.565 --> 00:21:44.605
lock in to what's on the board and then bringing that information down and copying
00:21:44.605 --> 00:21:44.665
it
00:21:44.755 --> 00:21:44.845
and
00:21:44.845 --> 00:21:45.385
writing down
00:21:45.385 --> 00:21:45.745
here
00:21:46.255 --> 00:21:46.465
and
00:21:46.465 --> 00:21:47.635
then looking back up again.
00:21:47.785 --> 00:21:51.025
That has dropped handwriting, you know, because of,
00:21:51.235 --> 00:21:51.655
we run
00:21:51.655 --> 00:21:52.525
school programs,
00:21:52.855 --> 00:21:53.035
we
00:21:53.035 --> 00:21:53.335
have,
00:21:53.335 --> 00:21:53.605
you know,
00:21:53.785 --> 00:21:54.355
students do
00:21:54.355 --> 00:21:54.625
things
00:21:54.625 --> 00:21:54.715
and
00:21:54.715 --> 00:21:55.015
so we have
00:21:55.045 --> 00:21:55.915
instant reports
00:21:56.305 --> 00:21:58.045
that kiddos write And
00:21:58.045 --> 00:21:58.795
we actually have really
00:21:58.795 --> 00:21:59.305
good data.
00:21:59.305 --> 00:21:59.545
Going
00:21:59.545 --> 00:22:00.175
back and comparing
00:22:00.175 --> 00:22:00.925
handwriting
00:22:01.435 --> 00:22:02.635
from 2014
00:22:02.635 --> 00:22:03.205
with handwriting
00:22:03.205 --> 00:22:03.325
from
00:22:03.325 --> 00:22:06.085
2024 is dramatically different.
00:22:06.295 --> 00:22:07.615
Handwriting of a second
00:22:07.615 --> 00:22:08.035
grader
00:22:08.965 --> 00:22:09.085
in
00:22:09.085 --> 00:22:09.730
2014
00:22:10.255 --> 00:22:10.855
is about
00:22:10.855 --> 00:22:11.545
equivalent with
00:22:11.545 --> 00:22:11.935
handwriting
00:22:11.935 --> 00:22:12.055
from
00:22:12.055 --> 00:22:12.145
a
00:22:12.145 --> 00:22:12.445
fourth
00:22:12.445 --> 00:22:13.045
grader now.
00:22:13.525 --> 00:22:14.395
So there, that's fine.
00:22:14.395 --> 00:22:16.315
Motor skills that are being lost as well.
00:22:16.315 --> 00:22:16.825
So it is,
00:22:17.125 --> 00:22:17.785
there's those things you
00:22:17.785 --> 00:22:18.805
can see that you can
00:22:18.805 --> 00:22:19.375
measure.
00:22:19.715 --> 00:22:19.895
and
00:22:19.895 --> 00:22:20.195
then there's
00:22:20.195 --> 00:22:20.675
things that
00:22:21.125 --> 00:22:21.485
unless
00:22:21.485 --> 00:22:21.605
you're
00:22:21.605 --> 00:22:21.935
looking
00:22:21.935 --> 00:22:22.445
for them,
00:22:23.015 --> 00:22:24.365
you know, you don't necessarily see it.
00:22:24.365 --> 00:22:25.265
And so we talk about
00:22:25.265 --> 00:22:25.805
a little bit of this
00:22:25.805 --> 00:22:25.865
in
00:22:25.865 --> 00:22:26.705
chapter six.
00:22:27.125 --> 00:22:27.455
We talk
00:22:27.455 --> 00:22:28.295
about how.
00:22:29.165 --> 00:22:29.345
It's
00:22:29.345 --> 00:22:29.525
not
00:22:29.525 --> 00:22:29.765
enough
00:22:29.765 --> 00:22:30.125
to just
00:22:30.125 --> 00:22:30.545
focus on
00:22:30.545 --> 00:22:30.935
schools.
00:22:30.995 --> 00:22:31.205
You know,
00:22:31.205 --> 00:22:31.565
kiddos
00:22:31.565 --> 00:22:31.805
are in
00:22:31.805 --> 00:22:32.375
schools
00:22:32.375 --> 00:22:33.065
about
00:22:33.155 --> 00:22:33.815
12%
00:22:33.815 --> 00:22:34.415
of the calendar
00:22:34.415 --> 00:22:34.625
year,
00:22:35.105 --> 00:22:35.645
The calendar year is
00:22:35.645 --> 00:22:36.635
8,700
00:22:36.635 --> 00:22:38.465
hours and the kids spend about
00:22:38.465 --> 00:22:38.825
11
00:22:38.825 --> 00:22:38.915
or
00:22:38.915 --> 00:22:39.785
1200 of it in
00:22:40.595 --> 00:22:40.895
So
00:22:40.895 --> 00:22:41.075
what
00:22:41.075 --> 00:22:41.405
happens to
00:22:41.405 --> 00:22:41.465
the
00:22:41.465 --> 00:22:41.645
other
00:22:41.645 --> 00:22:42.275
6,000
00:22:42.275 --> 00:22:42.545
hours
00:22:42.545 --> 00:22:43.625
or 7,000 hours?
00:22:43.727 --> 00:22:43.937
so
00:22:43.937 --> 00:22:44.297
part of
00:22:44.297 --> 00:22:44.747
that is,
00:22:45.227 --> 00:22:46.037
is working
00:22:46.187 --> 00:22:46.397
at
00:22:46.397 --> 00:22:48.017
the superintendent and principal
00:22:48.017 --> 00:22:48.497
level,
00:22:48.557 --> 00:22:52.985
at school leader level, board level, working with everything from
00:22:52.985 --> 00:22:53.945
prenatal
00:22:54.455 --> 00:22:55.055
education
00:22:55.055 --> 00:22:55.775
providers
00:22:56.285 --> 00:22:56.975
to,
00:22:57.425 --> 00:22:58.445
you know, colleges
00:22:58.835 --> 00:23:00.755
and, and really taking a community effort.
00:23:00.755 --> 00:23:01.085
Because
00:23:01.085 --> 00:23:01.805
what's happening
00:23:01.985 --> 00:23:02.765
in schools is
00:23:02.765 --> 00:23:04.085
only 12% of the year.
00:23:04.415 --> 00:23:04.565
It's
00:23:04.565 --> 00:23:05.105
what's happening
00:23:05.105 --> 00:23:05.735
outside of it.
00:23:05.735 --> 00:23:05.945
Right.
00:23:06.155 --> 00:23:06.365
So
00:23:06.365 --> 00:23:06.485
in
00:23:06.485 --> 00:23:10.565
our afterschool programs and our summer programs, we've actually really done away, unless the kids
00:23:10.565 --> 00:23:10.595
are
00:23:10.595 --> 00:23:10.805
doing
00:23:10.805 --> 00:23:11.105
Lego
00:23:11.105 --> 00:23:12.485
robotics, because we
00:23:12.485 --> 00:23:12.995
do want them
00:23:12.995 --> 00:23:17.765
engineering and thinking in that way, unless they're doing that or they have homework on their Chromebooks,
00:23:17.855 --> 00:23:18.065
they're
00:23:18.065 --> 00:23:18.515
basically
00:23:18.515 --> 00:23:19.535
not on screens at all.
00:23:19.865 --> 00:23:20.585
They're interacting
00:23:20.585 --> 00:23:21.155
with each other and.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:22.460
We put
00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:22.550
in
00:23:22.550 --> 00:23:22.760
place
00:23:22.760 --> 00:23:23.150
a couple of
00:23:23.150 --> 00:23:24.980
things that we talk about in the book.
00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:29.900
One's called pencil practice, where they're actually learning how to transfer information,
00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:29.990
how
00:23:29.990 --> 00:23:30.110
to
00:23:30.110 --> 00:23:30.560
shift
00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:32.510
and lock their focus.
00:23:32.570 --> 00:23:32.930
We put
00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:34.580
in place like learning centers for them
00:23:34.580 --> 00:23:34.670
to
00:23:34.670 --> 00:23:34.970
have
00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:35.720
to memorize
00:23:36.380 --> 00:23:36.530
the
00:23:36.530 --> 00:23:37.040
directions
00:23:37.040 --> 00:23:37.280
over
00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:37.670
there are
00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:39.440
such, and then I'm gonna do that for
00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:39.980
five minutes and
00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:40.070
then
00:23:40.070 --> 00:23:40.400
go over
00:23:40.430 --> 00:23:40.760
there
00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:41.300
and
00:23:41.300 --> 00:23:41.390
have
00:23:41.390 --> 00:23:41.960
a different set
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:42.590
of directions.
00:23:42.830 --> 00:23:43.460
'cause they're not getting
00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:43.850
a chance to
00:23:43.850 --> 00:23:46.100
practice that when they're just going from one app
00:23:46.370 --> 00:23:46.520
to
00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:46.640
the
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.090
next
00:23:47.090 --> 00:23:47.360
on their
00:23:47.360 --> 00:23:47.960
screens.
00:23:48.230 --> 00:23:48.440
And
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:48.830
so
00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:49.460
there's a
00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:50.450
cognitive decline,
00:23:50.540 --> 00:23:51.110
you know, measured
00:23:51.110 --> 00:23:51.830
by test scores
00:23:51.830 --> 00:23:52.280
and such.
00:23:52.580 --> 00:23:53.720
But then below that,
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:54.170
below that,
00:23:54.170 --> 00:23:54.290
there's
00:23:54.290 --> 00:23:55.040
a precognitive
00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:56.180
skills that we're really worried
00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:56.450
about.
00:23:56.810 --> 00:23:57.170
and We can
00:23:57.170 --> 00:23:57.620
think about
00:23:57.650 --> 00:23:58.250
ourselves.
00:23:58.334 --> 00:23:58.484
you know,
00:23:58.484 --> 00:23:59.264
memorizing phone
00:23:59.264 --> 00:23:59.684
numbers.
00:24:00.164 --> 00:24:02.294
We used to know thirty, forty, fifty phone numbers.
00:24:02.294 --> 00:24:02.474
Now
00:24:02.474 --> 00:24:02.594
we
00:24:02.594 --> 00:24:02.924
know like
00:24:02.924 --> 00:24:03.224
maybe
00:24:03.254 --> 00:24:05.711
three, and, and Nicholas Carr talked about
00:24:05.711 --> 00:24:05.831
this
00:24:05.831 --> 00:24:05.921
in
00:24:05.921 --> 00:24:06.011
the
00:24:06.011 --> 00:24:06.521
shallows.
00:24:06.911 --> 00:24:07.481
Very early
00:24:07.481 --> 00:24:07.721
book
00:24:07.721 --> 00:24:08.441
2010,
00:24:09.011 --> 00:24:09.311
talked
00:24:09.311 --> 00:24:10.451
about William James
00:24:10.451 --> 00:24:10.961
an American
00:24:10.961 --> 00:24:11.711
psychologist
00:24:11.711 --> 00:24:12.041
who
00:24:12.611 --> 00:24:15.731
compared learning, um, to, you
00:24:15.731 --> 00:24:15.881
know,
00:24:15.881 --> 00:24:16.331
water
00:24:16.331 --> 00:24:16.691
cutting
00:24:16.691 --> 00:24:16.841
through
00:24:16.841 --> 00:24:17.406
the sand
00:24:18.131 --> 00:24:19.211
and how water
00:24:19.211 --> 00:24:19.931
cuts through a sand
00:24:19.931 --> 00:24:20.021
and
00:24:20.021 --> 00:24:20.081
it
00:24:20.081 --> 00:24:20.441
creates
00:24:20.441 --> 00:24:20.981
a channel.
00:24:21.551 --> 00:24:22.031
So the next
00:24:22.031 --> 00:24:22.211
time
00:24:22.211 --> 00:24:22.511
water
00:24:22.511 --> 00:24:23.081
comes the same
00:24:23.081 --> 00:24:25.331
way, it'll probably find that channel, right?
00:24:25.721 --> 00:24:27.431
Same thing's going on with neural pathways.
00:24:27.431 --> 00:24:29.351
It's making those channels deeper and deeper
00:24:29.351 --> 00:24:29.831
and deeper.
00:24:30.431 --> 00:24:33.281
And so once you practice certain things, like
00:24:33.281 --> 00:24:33.641
not
00:24:33.641 --> 00:24:34.241
memorizing
00:24:34.241 --> 00:24:36.071
phone numbers guess
00:24:36.071 --> 00:24:36.191
what
00:24:36.191 --> 00:24:36.791
your brain's gonna
00:24:36.791 --> 00:24:37.001
do?
00:24:37.091 --> 00:24:39.191
Not memorize that phone number, especially if it knows
00:24:39.491 --> 00:24:39.941
it doesn't
00:24:39.941 --> 00:24:40.121
need
00:24:40.121 --> 00:24:40.331
to.
00:24:40.661 --> 00:24:41.081
And that's
00:24:41.081 --> 00:24:41.381
not,
00:24:41.441 --> 00:24:42.431
not as necessary,
00:24:42.761 --> 00:24:43.151
but things
00:24:43.151 --> 00:24:43.331
like
00:24:43.331 --> 00:24:43.721
having,
00:24:44.981 --> 00:24:46.721
awareness about the environment.
00:24:46.721 --> 00:24:47.411
Like one of the things that
00:24:47.411 --> 00:24:47.501
we
00:24:47.501 --> 00:24:47.741
noticed
00:24:47.741 --> 00:24:48.281
very early
00:24:48.281 --> 00:24:48.551
on
00:24:49.241 --> 00:24:49.481
with
00:24:49.481 --> 00:24:49.691
our
00:24:49.691 --> 00:24:52.101
staff applicants, you know, again, our 20, 21,
00:24:52.101 --> 00:24:53.771
22 year olds, is we
00:24:53.771 --> 00:24:53.951
would
00:24:53.951 --> 00:24:54.341
ask
00:24:54.341 --> 00:24:54.761
them,
00:24:54.911 --> 00:24:56.831
um, where do you
00:24:56.831 --> 00:24:57.281
live?
00:24:58.466 --> 00:24:58.736
Like
00:24:58.736 --> 00:24:59.306
the address,
00:24:59.306 --> 00:25:00.176
the cross streets.
00:25:00.206 --> 00:25:00.326
And
00:25:00.326 --> 00:25:00.416
the
00:25:00.416 --> 00:25:01.646
reason we needed to know that is so we
00:25:01.646 --> 00:25:02.216
knew like
00:25:02.216 --> 00:25:02.726
what schools
00:25:02.726 --> 00:25:04.676
to place in that, because we had like 35 schools
00:25:05.077 --> 00:25:05.287
they didn't
00:25:05.287 --> 00:25:05.987
know the cross streets.
00:25:06.787 --> 00:25:07.027
I
00:25:07.027 --> 00:25:07.207
live
00:25:07.207 --> 00:25:07.537
over by
00:25:07.537 --> 00:25:08.227
the Circle K.
00:25:08.317 --> 00:25:08.437
Like
00:25:08.437 --> 00:25:09.157
what do you mean the circle
00:25:09.157 --> 00:25:09.457
K
00:25:09.907 --> 00:25:10.477
by the Circle
00:25:10.477 --> 00:25:10.567
K
00:25:10.567 --> 00:25:11.617
behind the nail salon.
00:25:11.647 --> 00:25:13.657
Like we have a lot of nail salons, you know, like you need
00:25:13.657 --> 00:25:14.317
to know
00:25:14.955 --> 00:25:15.165
how
00:25:15.165 --> 00:25:17.805
do you find yourself in
00:25:18.045 --> 00:25:18.135
a
00:25:18.135 --> 00:25:18.315
three
00:25:18.315 --> 00:25:18.855
dimensional
00:25:18.855 --> 00:25:19.545
space
00:25:19.905 --> 00:25:20.325
if you don't
00:25:20.325 --> 00:25:22.365
have that sense of space of geography?
00:25:22.695 --> 00:25:22.965
So
00:25:22.965 --> 00:25:23.295
I think
00:25:23.295 --> 00:25:23.685
what we're
00:25:23.685 --> 00:25:24.435
losing
00:25:24.945 --> 00:25:25.215
goes
00:25:25.215 --> 00:25:25.605
well
00:25:25.605 --> 00:25:25.965
beyond
00:25:25.965 --> 00:25:28.545
cognitive into like some sociocognitive things that
00:25:28.545 --> 00:25:28.755
make
00:25:28.755 --> 00:25:28.935
us
00:25:28.935 --> 00:25:29.295
be able
00:25:29.295 --> 00:25:29.505
to,
00:25:29.895 --> 00:25:30.525
to, function.
00:25:31.125 --> 00:25:33.465
Gene Tavernetti: And I think without an awareness of what,
00:25:33.525 --> 00:25:34.035
what Frank's
00:25:34.035 --> 00:25:37.545
talking about, we look for technology
00:25:37.545 --> 00:25:38.025
to help us
00:25:38.025 --> 00:25:38.805
get out of that.
00:25:38.925 --> 00:25:42.645
So, so, and I think again, that's where these, these vendors are so good.
00:25:42.795 --> 00:25:43.695
Oh, you have a problem.
00:25:43.695 --> 00:25:45.165
Your kids aren't performing well in this.
00:25:45.165 --> 00:25:45.975
We got an app.
00:25:46.485 --> 00:25:46.755
We
00:25:46.755 --> 00:25:46.905
got
00:25:46.905 --> 00:25:47.625
a platform.
00:25:47.985 --> 00:25:49.810
And so again, the
00:25:49.905 --> 00:25:51.947
the irony is, really
00:25:51.947 --> 00:25:52.937
shows the captivity.
00:25:53.447 --> 00:25:54.377
Like, like, we've got a
00:25:54.377 --> 00:25:54.797
problem
00:25:54.797 --> 00:26:00.177
caused by this, but the same people are gonna help pull us out, which doesn't happen.
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.690
Bart: Could you explain screen inferiority in reading comprehension?
00:26:06.295 --> 00:26:06.565
Frank: Yeah.
00:26:06.565 --> 00:26:07.390
So Johann Hari
00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:07.830
talks about
00:26:07.885 --> 00:26:08.095
that in
00:26:08.095 --> 00:26:08.965
stolen focus.
00:26:09.025 --> 00:26:09.475
Um,
00:26:09.565 --> 00:26:10.645
and it's, there's
00:26:10.645 --> 00:26:10.915
quite
00:26:10.915 --> 00:26:10.975
a
00:26:10.975 --> 00:26:11.665
few studies
00:26:11.995 --> 00:26:12.235
by
00:26:12.235 --> 00:26:12.475
now
00:26:12.475 --> 00:26:12.625
that
00:26:12.625 --> 00:26:13.465
have shown it that,
00:26:13.701 --> 00:26:14.121
because
00:26:14.121 --> 00:26:14.331
when
00:26:14.331 --> 00:26:15.081
we read,
00:26:15.547 --> 00:26:15.847
we
00:26:15.847 --> 00:26:15.997
are
00:26:15.997 --> 00:26:16.507
tracking
00:26:16.507 --> 00:26:16.807
left
00:26:16.807 --> 00:26:16.957
to
00:26:16.957 --> 00:26:17.257
right,
00:26:17.527 --> 00:26:17.857
right?
00:26:18.217 --> 00:26:18.757
And
00:26:18.757 --> 00:26:18.937
if
00:26:18.937 --> 00:26:19.027
we're
00:26:19.027 --> 00:26:19.267
reading
00:26:19.267 --> 00:26:20.857
a book, things don't pop
00:26:20.857 --> 00:26:21.277
out at you.
00:26:21.577 --> 00:26:22.597
You're not expecting
00:26:22.627 --> 00:26:22.897
things
00:26:22.897 --> 00:26:22.987
to
00:26:22.987 --> 00:26:23.437
pop out
00:26:23.437 --> 00:26:23.827
at you.
00:26:24.247 --> 00:26:25.297
Um, there's
00:26:25.297 --> 00:26:26.827
a tactile connection.
00:26:26.827 --> 00:26:28.657
There's, There's, a connection to the
00:26:28.657 --> 00:26:28.897
brain
00:26:28.897 --> 00:26:28.987
that
00:26:28.987 --> 00:26:29.587
is different
00:26:29.947 --> 00:26:30.277
than when we
00:26:30.277 --> 00:26:30.577
read on
00:26:30.577 --> 00:26:30.997
screens.
00:26:31.177 --> 00:26:31.327
When
00:26:31.327 --> 00:26:31.387
we
00:26:31.387 --> 00:26:31.597
read on
00:26:31.597 --> 00:26:32.017
screens,
00:26:32.017 --> 00:26:34.777
we're reading, uh, we're skimming and scanning
00:26:34.777 --> 00:26:35.077
more.
00:26:35.407 --> 00:26:36.397
We're expecting
00:26:36.457 --> 00:26:37.657
more things to,
00:26:37.657 --> 00:26:37.897
to be
00:26:37.897 --> 00:26:38.437
going on with
00:26:38.437 --> 00:26:38.927
the, with the,
00:26:39.517 --> 00:26:39.667
the
00:26:39.667 --> 00:26:40.357
text around
00:26:40.357 --> 00:26:40.507
it.
00:26:40.867 --> 00:26:41.107
And
00:26:41.107 --> 00:26:41.407
so
00:26:41.407 --> 00:26:42.127
what his.
00:26:42.652 --> 00:26:42.922
Book
00:26:42.922 --> 00:26:43.612
shows
00:26:44.002 --> 00:26:44.362
is
00:26:44.362 --> 00:26:44.632
that
00:26:44.632 --> 00:26:45.262
by the time the
00:26:45.262 --> 00:26:45.502
kids
00:26:45.502 --> 00:26:45.742
are in
00:26:45.742 --> 00:26:46.492
third grade,
00:26:47.302 --> 00:26:48.352
um, there's about,
00:26:48.562 --> 00:26:49.852
about a two thirds of
00:26:49.852 --> 00:26:49.912
a
00:26:49.912 --> 00:26:51.472
year loss if they're
00:26:51.472 --> 00:26:51.862
reading
00:26:51.862 --> 00:26:52.372
primarily
00:26:52.372 --> 00:26:53.122
on screens
00:26:53.422 --> 00:26:53.932
versus reading
00:26:53.932 --> 00:26:54.802
primarily,
00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:55.949
on text.
00:26:56.329 --> 00:26:56.479
and
00:26:56.479 --> 00:26:56.689
then that,
00:26:56.749 --> 00:26:58.279
that carries, you know, that carries, and we
00:26:58.279 --> 00:26:58.729
see that
00:26:59.149 --> 00:26:59.809
there's actually
00:26:59.809 --> 00:26:59.989
a,
00:26:59.989 --> 00:27:00.229
an
00:27:00.229 --> 00:27:01.099
article in,
00:27:01.129 --> 00:27:04.159
um, I'm sorry, not an article, a quote in the book
00:27:04.159 --> 00:27:04.369
from
00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:04.459
a
00:27:04.459 --> 00:27:05.029
teacher,
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:06.469
who,
00:27:06.469 --> 00:27:07.609
you know, she
00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:07.849
taught
00:27:07.849 --> 00:27:07.999
for
00:27:07.999 --> 00:27:09.469
37 years college, a
00:27:09.469 --> 00:27:09.739
reading
00:27:09.739 --> 00:27:10.249
specialist
00:27:10.249 --> 00:27:10.429
and a
00:27:10.429 --> 00:27:11.209
college professor.
00:27:11.689 --> 00:27:12.169
And,
00:27:12.169 --> 00:27:12.409
uh,
00:27:12.409 --> 00:27:13.129
she, in a
00:27:13.129 --> 00:27:13.879
college class,
00:27:13.879 --> 00:27:14.269
she would
00:27:14.269 --> 00:27:14.569
give
00:27:14.569 --> 00:27:15.679
the, the students
00:27:15.859 --> 00:27:16.189
first
00:27:16.189 --> 00:27:16.279
day
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:16.789
of class,
00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:17.179
a
00:27:17.179 --> 00:27:17.599
fourth
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:18.049
to sixth
00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:18.769
grade text
00:27:19.129 --> 00:27:19.429
just
00:27:19.429 --> 00:27:20.209
to see where they were.
00:27:20.869 --> 00:27:21.199
And she
00:27:21.199 --> 00:27:21.889
said that
00:27:21.889 --> 00:27:22.219
over the
00:27:22.219 --> 00:27:22.459
course
00:27:22.459 --> 00:27:22.519
of
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:23.059
the last 10
00:27:23.059 --> 00:27:23.509
years,
00:27:23.719 --> 00:27:24.109
there's been a
00:27:24.109 --> 00:27:25.189
steady decline.
00:27:25.819 --> 00:27:26.149
And their
00:27:26.149 --> 00:27:26.449
ability
00:27:26.449 --> 00:27:28.189
to read college students' ability to read
00:27:28.339 --> 00:27:28.849
fourth
00:27:28.849 --> 00:27:30.589
to sixth grade text because
00:27:30.589 --> 00:27:30.679
they're
00:27:30.679 --> 00:27:31.069
very good
00:27:31.069 --> 00:27:31.519
at skimming
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:32.179
and scanning.
00:27:32.749 --> 00:27:32.899
They're
00:27:32.899 --> 00:27:33.259
not as
00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:33.679
good as
00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:34.639
that linear
00:27:34.639 --> 00:27:35.239
reading
00:27:35.239 --> 00:27:35.509
and that
00:27:35.509 --> 00:27:36.199
internalizing of
00:27:37.429 --> 00:27:37.849
it, I mean,
00:27:37.849 --> 00:27:39.889
so it's, it's numbers, it's numerical, you know,
00:27:39.889 --> 00:27:40.429
Johann Hari
00:27:40.429 --> 00:27:41.119
talks about that,
00:27:41.419 --> 00:27:41.719
but we
00:27:41.719 --> 00:27:42.409
see it every day
00:27:42.409 --> 00:27:42.499
and
00:27:42.499 --> 00:27:42.859
we see
00:27:42.859 --> 00:27:43.219
it with,
00:27:43.219 --> 00:27:44.059
you know, like, like
00:27:44.089 --> 00:27:44.539
Kathy
00:27:44.539 --> 00:27:45.134
did in the
00:27:46.414 --> 00:27:46.534
Gene Tavernetti: you
00:27:46.534 --> 00:27:46.654
know.
00:27:46.654 --> 00:27:46.744
And
00:27:46.744 --> 00:27:48.724
I think also some of the, some
00:27:48.724 --> 00:27:48.814
of
00:27:48.814 --> 00:27:51.604
the interventions for students, older students who aren't,
00:27:52.144 --> 00:27:52.444
uh,
00:27:52.444 --> 00:27:52.774
reading
00:27:52.774 --> 00:27:56.014
well are based on, you know,
00:27:56.014 --> 00:27:56.524
having this
00:27:56.524 --> 00:27:56.824
book
00:27:56.824 --> 00:27:57.154
in front
00:27:57.154 --> 00:27:57.454
of them.
00:27:57.904 --> 00:28:05.134
Be learning how to annotate, learning how to ask questions, learning how to, uh, uh, read for prosody.
00:28:05.134 --> 00:28:05.434
I mean,
00:28:05.464 --> 00:28:06.124
you know, all of
00:28:06.124 --> 00:28:06.334
these
00:28:06.334 --> 00:28:06.784
things.
00:28:07.174 --> 00:28:07.504
Can't
00:28:07.504 --> 00:28:07.624
do
00:28:07.624 --> 00:28:07.864
it with
00:28:07.864 --> 00:28:08.344
a screen.
00:28:08.734 --> 00:28:09.094
You just,
00:28:09.094 --> 00:28:09.244
you
00:28:09.244 --> 00:28:09.994
just can't.
00:28:10.354 --> 00:28:12.094
Uh, big, a big push now
00:28:12.094 --> 00:28:12.484
is to get
00:28:12.484 --> 00:28:15.064
novels back into, into, secondary
00:28:15.064 --> 00:28:15.754
classroom or in all
00:28:15.814 --> 00:28:16.474
classrooms.
00:28:16.564 --> 00:28:17.494
And again, that
00:28:17.494 --> 00:28:17.764
has
00:28:17.764 --> 00:28:19.864
to be, you gotta be holding,
00:28:19.864 --> 00:28:20.614
you gotta be holding
00:28:20.614 --> 00:28:22.594
that paper and that paper book
00:28:22.804 --> 00:28:22.924
to
00:28:22.924 --> 00:28:23.704
be able to do it.
00:28:24.094 --> 00:28:24.634
So
00:28:24.664 --> 00:28:26.224
I, I think there are just some
00:28:26.224 --> 00:28:27.484
things that screens
00:28:27.514 --> 00:28:27.724
you
00:28:27.724 --> 00:28:28.024
can't
00:28:28.024 --> 00:28:28.354
do
00:28:28.966 --> 00:28:29.566
we just have to
00:28:29.566 --> 00:28:30.226
fess up to that.
00:28:30.859 --> 00:28:31.549
Frank: There's a
00:28:31.729 --> 00:28:33.169
um, uh,
00:28:33.199 --> 00:28:33.709
Barbara King
00:28:33.709 --> 00:28:35.139
Solver's book, the Bean Trees,
00:28:36.529 --> 00:28:36.739
came
00:28:36.739 --> 00:28:40.579
out like in 88 or so, 89, and it's like, it's been passed on in my family.
00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:41.209
Every, everybody's
00:28:41.209 --> 00:28:41.359
read
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:41.959
it 'cause I have to read it
00:28:41.959 --> 00:28:42.079
in
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.379
school
00:28:42.379 --> 00:28:43.519
' cause she's from Tucson.
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:44.119
And I went to U of
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:44.269
A
00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:46.459
and then my son had to read it.
00:28:46.459 --> 00:28:46.909
My daughter, I had
00:28:46.909 --> 00:28:46.999
to
00:28:46.999 --> 00:28:47.209
read it.
00:28:47.209 --> 00:28:47.479
Now my
00:28:47.479 --> 00:28:48.139
youngest
00:28:48.199 --> 00:28:49.609
is reading it and I came,
00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:49.999
came
00:28:49.999 --> 00:28:50.179
into
00:28:50.179 --> 00:28:50.239
a
00:28:50.239 --> 00:28:50.449
room
00:28:50.449 --> 00:28:51.199
last week
00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:52.069
and she was
00:28:52.069 --> 00:28:52.879
listening to
00:28:52.879 --> 00:28:53.029
a,
00:28:53.209 --> 00:28:53.719
something
00:28:53.719 --> 00:28:54.289
being read.
00:28:55.579 --> 00:28:55.849
And then I
00:28:55.849 --> 00:28:56.299
looked at her
00:28:56.299 --> 00:28:57.079
and she's got the book
00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:57.199
in
00:28:57.199 --> 00:28:57.289
her
00:28:57.289 --> 00:28:57.529
hand.
00:28:57.559 --> 00:28:57.829
It's the
00:28:57.829 --> 00:28:58.399
bean Trees.
00:28:59.029 --> 00:28:59.719
Um, and
00:28:59.719 --> 00:29:00.109
I said,
00:29:00.439 --> 00:29:00.979
what, what are
00:29:00.979 --> 00:29:01.069
you
00:29:01.069 --> 00:29:01.309
doing
00:29:01.309 --> 00:29:01.549
there?
00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:02.479
And she said, I'm
00:29:02.479 --> 00:29:03.019
I'm reading a
00:29:03.019 --> 00:29:03.319
book.
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:03.409
And
00:29:03.409 --> 00:29:03.619
I said,
00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:04.159
no, you're not
00:29:04.159 --> 00:29:04.579
reading.
00:29:04.609 --> 00:29:05.209
YouTube
00:29:05.209 --> 00:29:05.749
is reading.
00:29:06.229 --> 00:29:06.619
And she
00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:06.769
said,
00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:06.979
well,
00:29:06.979 --> 00:29:07.069
I'm
00:29:07.069 --> 00:29:08.029
following along.
00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:08.779
And she's
00:29:08.779 --> 00:29:08.869
like,
00:29:08.869 --> 00:29:09.319
but look,
00:29:09.469 --> 00:29:10.279
I've annotated
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:10.519
it.
00:29:10.879 --> 00:29:11.629
So she
00:29:11.629 --> 00:29:12.499
understood
00:29:12.499 --> 00:29:13.099
that really
00:29:13.099 --> 00:29:13.339
she
00:29:13.339 --> 00:29:14.359
had to have some sort
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:14.449
of
00:29:14.479 --> 00:29:14.899
tactile
00:29:14.929 --> 00:29:15.409
connection
00:29:15.439 --> 00:29:15.769
to it.
00:29:16.699 --> 00:29:19.039
But I told her, you know, you need to actually
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:19.669
be doing the
00:29:19.669 --> 00:29:20.209
effort.
00:29:20.614 --> 00:29:21.094
Of
00:29:21.454 --> 00:29:21.844
having
00:29:21.844 --> 00:29:22.654
your brain make
00:29:22.654 --> 00:29:22.924
those,
00:29:22.924 --> 00:29:23.164
make
00:29:23.164 --> 00:29:23.314
that
00:29:23.314 --> 00:29:23.734
decoding,
00:29:23.734 --> 00:29:24.029
and then,
00:29:24.129 --> 00:29:24.349
and
00:29:24.354 --> 00:29:24.964
then turn that into
00:29:24.964 --> 00:29:25.684
comprehension.
00:29:25.714 --> 00:29:26.554
because otherwise
00:29:26.968 --> 00:29:27.328
it's not
00:29:27.328 --> 00:29:27.418
the
00:29:27.418 --> 00:29:27.658
same
00:29:27.658 --> 00:29:28.078
level,
00:29:28.108 --> 00:29:29.518
not the same level of comprehension.
00:29:29.518 --> 00:29:29.848
So,
00:29:30.114 --> 00:29:30.414
even
00:29:30.414 --> 00:29:30.654
kids
00:29:30.654 --> 00:29:31.044
who are like,
00:29:31.254 --> 00:29:32.364
you know, pretty bright
00:29:32.364 --> 00:29:32.544
and
00:29:32.544 --> 00:29:32.844
doing
00:29:32.844 --> 00:29:33.474
the work,
00:29:33.504 --> 00:29:33.774
even
00:29:33.774 --> 00:29:33.864
the
00:29:33.864 --> 00:29:34.404
tactile
00:29:34.404 --> 00:29:34.794
work of
00:29:34.794 --> 00:29:34.974
it
00:29:35.424 --> 00:29:35.724
will
00:29:35.724 --> 00:29:36.004
fall, fall
00:29:36.004 --> 00:29:36.174
into
00:29:36.174 --> 00:29:36.954
those traps
00:29:37.014 --> 00:29:37.464
of
00:29:37.854 --> 00:29:38.154
what's
00:29:38.154 --> 00:29:38.244
the
00:29:38.244 --> 00:29:38.964
easiest way
00:29:38.964 --> 00:29:40.367
to do like Gene
00:29:40.367 --> 00:29:40.937
was saying,
00:29:41.477 --> 00:29:41.777
the,
00:29:41.777 --> 00:29:41.897
the
00:29:41.897 --> 00:29:42.557
digital
00:29:42.707 --> 00:29:43.157
companies
00:29:43.157 --> 00:29:43.937
will say, here,
00:29:43.937 --> 00:29:44.297
we'll help
00:29:44.297 --> 00:29:44.417
you
00:29:44.417 --> 00:29:44.537
do
00:29:44.537 --> 00:29:44.627
it.
00:29:45.317 --> 00:29:45.587
So
00:29:45.587 --> 00:29:45.767
like
00:29:45.767 --> 00:29:46.457
in our programs
00:29:46.457 --> 00:29:46.697
after
00:29:46.697 --> 00:29:46.877
school,
00:29:46.877 --> 00:29:47.357
we've told
00:29:47.357 --> 00:29:47.507
them,
00:29:47.957 --> 00:29:48.107
we
00:29:48.107 --> 00:29:48.227
don't
00:29:48.227 --> 00:29:48.497
want
00:29:48.497 --> 00:29:49.187
you reading
00:29:49.637 --> 00:29:50.507
on, you
00:29:50.507 --> 00:29:50.957
know, on
00:29:50.957 --> 00:29:51.377
the screen
00:29:51.377 --> 00:29:51.707
anymore.
00:29:52.157 --> 00:29:52.487
Take the
00:29:52.487 --> 00:29:52.697
kids
00:29:52.697 --> 00:29:53.087
outside,
00:29:53.087 --> 00:29:53.597
sit under a
00:29:53.597 --> 00:29:54.107
tree and read
00:29:54.107 --> 00:29:54.362
a book
00:29:55.007 --> 00:29:55.187
for
00:29:55.187 --> 00:29:55.517
the same
00:29:55.517 --> 00:29:55.817
reason.
00:29:55.817 --> 00:29:55.997
They
00:29:55.997 --> 00:29:56.207
need
00:29:56.207 --> 00:29:56.297
to
00:29:56.297 --> 00:29:56.987
hear the
00:29:56.987 --> 00:29:57.587
modeling and
00:29:57.587 --> 00:29:59.297
they need to, they need to make that connection
00:29:59.297 --> 00:29:59.687
in a way
00:29:59.687 --> 00:30:00.707
that we
00:30:00.707 --> 00:30:00.917
walk
00:30:00.917 --> 00:30:01.067
into
00:30:01.067 --> 00:30:01.487
kindergarten
00:30:01.487 --> 00:30:02.327
classroom sometimes
00:30:02.417 --> 00:30:03.047
and
00:30:03.047 --> 00:30:03.257
kids
00:30:03.257 --> 00:30:03.557
dunno how to
00:30:03.557 --> 00:30:04.307
turn a page
00:30:04.607 --> 00:30:04.697
' cause
00:30:04.697 --> 00:30:04.817
they're
00:30:04.817 --> 00:30:05.777
so used to just swiping,
00:30:06.077 --> 00:30:07.037
you know, On the iPad.
00:30:07.157 --> 00:30:07.517
So there's
00:30:07.517 --> 00:30:09.017
something being lost there for sure.
00:30:10.277 --> 00:30:13.397
Bart: Why are lower achieving students seeing the steepest declines?
00:30:14.342 --> 00:30:14.522
Gene Tavernetti: It
00:30:14.522 --> 00:30:15.302
gets back
00:30:15.302 --> 00:30:15.872
to,
00:30:15.932 --> 00:30:16.382
um,
00:30:17.042 --> 00:30:18.452
uh, instruction.
00:30:18.452 --> 00:30:18.752
I mean,
00:30:18.752 --> 00:30:18.842
it,
00:30:18.842 --> 00:30:19.532
it's hard
00:30:19.982 --> 00:30:20.702
not to
00:30:20.702 --> 00:30:22.652
leave instruction as, as the most
00:30:22.652 --> 00:30:23.582
important variable,
00:30:23.612 --> 00:30:25.712
which, which I think research, again,
00:30:25.712 --> 00:30:26.252
for the past
00:30:26.312 --> 00:30:27.332
50, 60 years.
00:30:27.332 --> 00:30:30.091
That's one of the, that's one of the, the primary, variables.
00:30:30.661 --> 00:30:31.261
And,
00:30:31.321 --> 00:30:31.531
and
00:30:31.531 --> 00:30:32.311
to be honest,
00:30:33.541 --> 00:30:33.871
it's
00:30:34.351 --> 00:30:35.281
how to teach
00:30:35.701 --> 00:30:35.881
is
00:30:35.881 --> 00:30:36.211
not
00:30:36.571 --> 00:30:36.991
taught
00:30:37.021 --> 00:30:37.501
in
00:30:37.783 --> 00:30:38.383
programs
00:30:38.383 --> 00:30:38.953
and teacher prep
00:30:38.953 --> 00:30:39.523
programs.
00:30:39.853 --> 00:30:40.903
In fact, again,
00:30:40.903 --> 00:30:41.173
during
00:30:41.173 --> 00:30:42.868
CO. You
00:30:42.868 --> 00:30:44.428
know, we don't want to blame
00:30:44.428 --> 00:30:45.358
COVID for everything,
00:30:45.358 --> 00:30:47.218
but they can be blamed for a few things.
00:30:47.218 --> 00:30:47.278
I
00:30:47.278 --> 00:30:47.728
mean, there were
00:30:47.728 --> 00:30:48.208
teachers who
00:30:48.208 --> 00:30:49.438
got their credential never
00:30:49.438 --> 00:30:49.738
having
00:30:49.738 --> 00:30:50.278
set foot in
00:30:50.278 --> 00:30:50.878
a classroom.
00:30:51.264 --> 00:30:56.124
And so, um, the, the programs, they don't train
00:30:56.334 --> 00:30:56.934
teachers.
00:30:57.325 --> 00:30:57.535
but
00:30:57.535 --> 00:30:58.495
they educate
00:30:58.585 --> 00:30:59.065
teachers
00:30:59.065 --> 00:31:00.025
about things.
00:31:00.295 --> 00:31:01.735
And so they don't, they don't learn how
00:31:01.735 --> 00:31:02.605
to teach a lesson,
00:31:02.605 --> 00:31:02.785
but
00:31:02.785 --> 00:31:03.355
they read
00:31:03.355 --> 00:31:03.865
about
00:31:03.925 --> 00:31:04.435
different
00:31:04.435 --> 00:31:05.095
ways to
00:31:05.095 --> 00:31:05.965
teach lessons.
00:31:06.355 --> 00:31:08.155
And so I think there's just a,
00:31:08.155 --> 00:31:08.275
a
00:31:08.275 --> 00:31:08.665
dearth
00:31:08.695 --> 00:31:08.995
of,
00:31:09.025 --> 00:31:09.415
uh,
00:31:10.135 --> 00:31:10.315
of
00:31:10.315 --> 00:31:11.125
education
00:31:11.125 --> 00:31:11.425
for,
00:31:11.425 --> 00:31:11.635
in
00:31:11.635 --> 00:31:12.355
pre-service.
00:31:13.015 --> 00:31:13.525
Frank: I think
00:31:13.525 --> 00:31:14.365
also the, I mean
00:31:14.395 --> 00:31:14.635
to
00:31:14.815 --> 00:31:15.715
to your question
00:31:15.715 --> 00:31:15.925
about
00:31:15.925 --> 00:31:16.345
why the
00:31:16.345 --> 00:31:17.845
kids who were struggling the
00:31:17.845 --> 00:31:18.865
most are struggling more.
00:31:19.291 --> 00:31:19.501
we
00:31:19.501 --> 00:31:19.981
dedicate
00:31:19.981 --> 00:31:20.851
the book to kids who
00:31:20.851 --> 00:31:21.541
need to be taught.
00:31:21.811 --> 00:31:21.931
You
00:31:21.931 --> 00:31:22.021
know,
00:31:22.021 --> 00:31:23.101
there are some children who,
00:31:23.373 --> 00:31:23.553
who
00:31:23.553 --> 00:31:23.793
can
00:31:24.183 --> 00:31:24.453
go to the
00:31:24.453 --> 00:31:24.933
library on
00:31:24.933 --> 00:31:25.023
their
00:31:25.023 --> 00:31:25.233
own
00:31:25.473 --> 00:31:26.133
and they're fine.
00:31:26.133 --> 00:31:26.223
And
00:31:26.223 --> 00:31:26.373
we
00:31:26.373 --> 00:31:26.553
see
00:31:26.553 --> 00:31:26.823
it now
00:31:26.823 --> 00:31:26.973
when we
00:31:26.973 --> 00:31:27.153
walk
00:31:27.153 --> 00:31:27.303
into
00:31:27.303 --> 00:31:27.693
the classrooms.
00:31:27.693 --> 00:31:28.353
like yesterday
00:31:28.953 --> 00:31:29.343
I was
00:31:29.613 --> 00:31:29.883
telling
00:31:29.883 --> 00:31:30.333
the administrators
00:31:30.333 --> 00:31:30.723
I was with,
00:31:30.723 --> 00:31:30.993
like,
00:31:31.323 --> 00:31:31.443
you
00:31:31.443 --> 00:31:31.653
can
00:31:31.653 --> 00:31:32.043
tell that the
00:31:32.043 --> 00:31:32.643
screens have
00:31:32.643 --> 00:31:33.093
made, have
00:31:33.093 --> 00:31:33.333
made
00:31:33.333 --> 00:31:33.423
the
00:31:33.423 --> 00:31:34.623
self-directed kids
00:31:35.553 --> 00:31:36.033
continue
00:31:36.033 --> 00:31:36.153
to
00:31:36.153 --> 00:31:36.303
be
00:31:36.303 --> 00:31:36.663
active
00:31:36.663 --> 00:31:37.353
learners and
00:31:37.353 --> 00:31:37.593
those
00:31:37.593 --> 00:31:37.683
who
00:31:37.683 --> 00:31:38.913
wanna opt out cannot opt
00:31:38.913 --> 00:31:39.063
out.
00:31:39.618 --> 00:31:40.338
It's much harder
00:31:40.338 --> 00:31:40.398
to
00:31:40.398 --> 00:31:40.548
do
00:31:40.548 --> 00:31:40.758
that
00:31:40.758 --> 00:31:40.878
when
00:31:40.878 --> 00:31:40.998
there's
00:31:40.998 --> 00:31:41.748
that interaction
00:31:41.748 --> 00:31:42.018
with the
00:31:42.018 --> 00:31:42.438
teacher,
00:31:43.068 --> 00:31:43.428
teachers
00:31:43.428 --> 00:31:44.208
modeling, doing
00:31:44.208 --> 00:31:45.198
guided practice,
00:31:45.261 --> 00:31:45.591
and
00:31:45.621 --> 00:31:46.011
making
00:31:46.011 --> 00:31:46.941
the kids accountable
00:31:46.971 --> 00:31:47.931
moment to moment.
00:31:48.261 --> 00:31:48.471
I think
00:31:48.531 --> 00:31:48.951
that's
00:31:48.951 --> 00:31:49.911
fallen off.
00:31:50.001 --> 00:31:50.391
You know,
00:31:50.391 --> 00:31:50.571
And I
00:31:50.571 --> 00:31:50.721
think
00:31:50.721 --> 00:31:50.961
because
00:31:50.961 --> 00:31:51.051
that
00:31:51.051 --> 00:31:51.501
accountability
00:31:51.501 --> 00:31:52.521
has fallen off,
00:31:52.731 --> 00:31:53.691
that relationship
00:31:53.691 --> 00:31:54.531
has fallen off
00:31:54.861 --> 00:31:55.221
between
00:31:55.221 --> 00:31:55.821
the teacher
00:31:55.821 --> 00:31:56.451
and the, and
00:31:56.451 --> 00:31:57.141
the students.
00:31:57.531 --> 00:31:58.011
I think that
00:31:58.011 --> 00:31:58.881
that's been a
00:31:58.881 --> 00:31:59.421
big piece
00:31:59.421 --> 00:31:59.661
of it.
00:32:00.111 --> 00:32:00.801
But going back,
00:32:00.801 --> 00:32:00.951
even
00:32:00.951 --> 00:32:01.101
like
00:32:01.101 --> 00:32:01.971
Gino was talking about
00:32:02.361 --> 00:32:02.511
the
00:32:02.511 --> 00:32:03.711
1970s and eighties,
00:32:04.101 --> 00:32:04.941
Ruby Payne,
00:32:04.971 --> 00:32:05.421
uh,
00:32:05.691 --> 00:32:07.281
framework, for Understanding Poverty,
00:32:07.521 --> 00:32:07.611
if
00:32:07.611 --> 00:32:08.181
you remember that
00:32:08.181 --> 00:32:08.811
book, uh,
00:32:08.841 --> 00:32:09.681
from, I think it was
00:32:09.681 --> 00:32:10.281
the late eighties,
00:32:10.581 --> 00:32:11.211
talked about
00:32:11.211 --> 00:32:11.571
how
00:32:12.441 --> 00:32:13.101
the single most
00:32:13.101 --> 00:32:13.401
important
00:32:13.401 --> 00:32:13.521
thing
00:32:13.521 --> 00:32:13.851
we do as
00:32:13.851 --> 00:32:14.061
far
00:32:14.061 --> 00:32:15.231
as instruction
00:32:15.561 --> 00:32:16.431
is the modeling
00:32:17.511 --> 00:32:17.841
Because
00:32:17.841 --> 00:32:18.711
the modeling is where you
00:32:18.711 --> 00:32:19.911
demystify the learner.
00:32:20.061 --> 00:32:20.121
I
00:32:20.121 --> 00:32:20.241
mean,
00:32:20.241 --> 00:32:20.601
I'm sorry, the
00:32:20.601 --> 00:32:20.901
learning.
00:32:21.291 --> 00:32:21.681
It, it
00:32:21.681 --> 00:32:22.131
makes it,
00:32:22.131 --> 00:32:22.581
it makes
00:32:22.581 --> 00:32:22.701
it
00:32:23.121 --> 00:32:23.451
quit
00:32:23.451 --> 00:32:25.101
being magic and
00:32:25.101 --> 00:32:25.191
it
00:32:25.191 --> 00:32:25.941
becomes, oh, I can
00:32:25.941 --> 00:32:26.571
do that too.
00:32:27.081 --> 00:32:27.741
And that
00:32:27.891 --> 00:32:28.191
with the
00:32:28.191 --> 00:32:28.581
modeling
00:32:28.581 --> 00:32:28.971
falling
00:32:28.971 --> 00:32:29.361
off,
00:32:29.391 --> 00:32:29.691
that
00:32:29.691 --> 00:32:30.651
demystification
00:32:30.651 --> 00:32:31.281
has fallen off.
00:32:31.281 --> 00:32:31.491
And I
00:32:31.491 --> 00:32:31.671
think
00:32:31.671 --> 00:32:31.761
you
00:32:31.761 --> 00:32:31.941
see
00:32:31.941 --> 00:32:32.241
a lot
00:32:32.241 --> 00:32:32.931
of more kids
00:32:33.201 --> 00:32:33.501
having
00:32:33.501 --> 00:32:33.681
this
00:32:33.681 --> 00:32:34.911
learned helplessness
00:32:35.331 --> 00:32:35.811
because
00:32:36.350 --> 00:32:36.560
they're
00:32:36.560 --> 00:32:37.550
not getting that anymore.
00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:37.700
So
00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:37.790
I
00:32:37.790 --> 00:32:37.940
think
00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:38.120
that's
00:32:38.120 --> 00:32:39.290
why we're seeing the steep declines.
00:32:39.590 --> 00:32:39.770
And
00:32:39.770 --> 00:32:40.190
again,
00:32:40.220 --> 00:32:40.760
the numbers
00:32:40.760 --> 00:32:41.090
show
00:32:41.090 --> 00:32:41.240
it.
00:32:41.750 --> 00:32:41.990
Uh,
00:32:41.990 --> 00:32:42.110
we
00:32:42.110 --> 00:32:42.590
talk about
00:32:42.590 --> 00:32:43.130
this in, in
00:32:43.190 --> 00:32:43.610
chapter
00:32:43.610 --> 00:32:44.090
one, the Rip
00:32:44.090 --> 00:32:44.930
Van Winkle piece,
00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:45.860
that instead
00:32:45.860 --> 00:32:45.920
of
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:46.250
coming from
00:32:46.250 --> 00:32:46.880
the past,
00:32:47.210 --> 00:32:47.480
he had
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:47.840
come from
00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:48.410
the future.
00:32:49.100 --> 00:32:50.360
He had come from 2034
00:32:50.360 --> 00:32:50.480
and
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:50.870
told
00:32:50.870 --> 00:32:51.560
educators
00:32:51.560 --> 00:32:52.460
in 2014,
00:32:52.790 --> 00:32:52.880
Hey
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:53.480
guys, I've been to
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:53.990
the future
00:32:54.590 --> 00:32:54.770
and
00:32:54.770 --> 00:32:55.640
you spent about
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:56.270
$40
00:32:56.270 --> 00:32:56.900
billion
00:32:56.995 --> 00:32:57.275
a year,
00:32:58.670 --> 00:32:59.150
um,
00:32:59.210 --> 00:32:59.510
to
00:32:59.690 --> 00:32:59.900
get
00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:00.170
more
00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:00.290
and
00:33:00.290 --> 00:33:00.830
more digital
00:33:00.830 --> 00:33:01.610
into classrooms.
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:02.060
And
00:33:02.060 --> 00:33:02.390
what you're
00:33:02.390 --> 00:33:02.630
gonna
00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:02.900
see
00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:02.960
is
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:03.410
that the high
00:33:03.410 --> 00:33:04.220
achieving kids,
00:33:04.580 --> 00:33:05.210
they'll do about
00:33:05.210 --> 00:33:05.600
the same,
00:33:06.050 --> 00:33:06.350
but your
00:33:06.350 --> 00:33:06.530
low
00:33:06.530 --> 00:33:06.920
achieving
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:07.310
kids,
00:33:07.580 --> 00:33:08.540
they're gonna tank.
00:33:09.020 --> 00:33:09.500
Like, who would
00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:10.010
buy that?
00:33:10.370 --> 00:33:10.820
Nobody
00:33:10.820 --> 00:33:11.210
would buy
00:33:11.210 --> 00:33:11.480
that if
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:12.080
we knew it
00:33:12.590 --> 00:33:12.740
in
00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:13.123
20
00:33:13.123 --> 00:33:13.505
14,
00:33:13.505 --> 00:33:13.888
20
00:33:13.888 --> 00:33:14.270
15.
00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:14.870
We're
00:33:14.870 --> 00:33:15.560
realizing it
00:33:15.560 --> 00:33:15.830
now
00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:16.363
in 20
00:33:16.363 --> 00:33:16.775
25,
00:33:16.775 --> 00:33:17.600
20 26.
00:33:17.935 --> 00:33:18.155
But
00:33:18.235 --> 00:33:18.515
I think
00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:20.390
that, um, it's
00:33:20.390 --> 00:33:21.170
gonna continue.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:21.620
Earlier
00:33:21.620 --> 00:33:21.800
when
00:33:21.800 --> 00:33:22.100
you asked
00:33:22.100 --> 00:33:22.940
the question about
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:23.450
what
00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:23.990
scares you the
00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:24.260
most,
00:33:24.260 --> 00:33:25.970
I think it's this bifurcation that's
00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:27.290
There was
00:33:27.290 --> 00:33:27.950
an article
00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:28.220
in
00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:28.910
New York Times
00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:29.780
regarding reading
00:33:29.780 --> 00:33:30.160
habits.
00:33:31.520 --> 00:33:31.940
People who
00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:32.600
are reading
00:33:33.350 --> 00:33:33.920
still
00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:34.550
are reading more.
00:33:35.705 --> 00:33:36.155
But the
00:33:36.155 --> 00:33:36.905
number of people who
00:33:36.905 --> 00:33:37.385
didn't read
00:33:37.385 --> 00:33:37.805
a single
00:33:37.805 --> 00:33:38.135
book
00:33:38.165 --> 00:33:38.345
in
00:33:38.345 --> 00:33:38.435
the
00:33:38.435 --> 00:33:39.065
US in
00:33:39.065 --> 00:33:39.725
20, in,
00:33:40.745 --> 00:33:41.795
20, 24, I think it
00:33:41.795 --> 00:33:42.125
was,
00:33:42.275 --> 00:33:42.725
was over
00:33:42.725 --> 00:33:43.385
50%.
00:33:43.925 --> 00:33:44.015
You
00:33:44.015 --> 00:33:44.255
know,
00:33:44.465 --> 00:33:44.615
so
00:33:44.615 --> 00:33:44.915
those of
00:33:44.915 --> 00:33:45.515
us that read,
00:33:45.995 --> 00:33:46.265
read
00:33:46.265 --> 00:33:46.655
more.
00:33:46.775 --> 00:33:46.895
' cause
00:33:46.895 --> 00:33:47.255
there's more
00:33:47.255 --> 00:33:47.315
to
00:33:47.315 --> 00:33:47.615
read.
00:33:48.185 --> 00:33:48.455
Those of
00:33:48.455 --> 00:33:48.575
us
00:33:48.575 --> 00:33:48.905
that don't
00:33:48.905 --> 00:33:49.085
read
00:33:49.085 --> 00:33:49.925
have chosen not to,
00:33:49.925 --> 00:33:51.635
there's this big bifurcation happening
00:33:51.905 --> 00:33:52.085
that's
00:33:52.085 --> 00:33:52.475
gonna
00:33:53.195 --> 00:33:53.525
open
00:33:53.525 --> 00:33:53.615
up
00:33:53.615 --> 00:33:54.245
that inequality
00:33:54.245 --> 00:33:54.695
gap even
00:33:54.695 --> 00:33:54.935
more.
00:33:54.935 --> 00:33:55.025
I
00:34:00.462 --> 00:34:05.232
Bart: So thinking about the future then, if this trend continues, what are long-term implications?
00:34:05.865 --> 00:34:06.105
Frank: There's
00:34:06.105 --> 00:34:06.165
a
00:34:06.165 --> 00:34:06.645
good quote
00:34:06.645 --> 00:34:06.855
from
00:34:06.855 --> 00:34:07.065
a
00:34:07.185 --> 00:34:08.085
superintendent.
00:34:08.283 --> 00:34:08.583
in,
00:34:08.733 --> 00:34:09.213
at the end
00:34:09.213 --> 00:34:09.963
of chapter one,
00:34:09.963 --> 00:34:10.143
where we
00:34:10.143 --> 00:34:10.413
talk
00:34:10.413 --> 00:34:10.743
about
00:34:10.743 --> 00:34:11.733
there's alternative
00:34:11.733 --> 00:34:12.963
paths to this path
00:34:12.963 --> 00:34:13.533
that we're on.
00:34:14.133 --> 00:34:14.553
And
00:34:14.553 --> 00:34:15.243
this particular
00:34:15.243 --> 00:34:16.083
superintendent,
00:34:16.083 --> 00:34:16.353
really
00:34:16.353 --> 00:34:17.013
well regarded,
00:34:17.643 --> 00:34:18.933
she, um,
00:34:19.143 --> 00:34:19.653
was
00:34:19.653 --> 00:34:19.983
like
00:34:19.983 --> 00:34:21.933
the, she got the Technology
00:34:21.933 --> 00:34:22.593
Administrator
00:34:22.593 --> 00:34:22.953
award
00:34:22.953 --> 00:34:23.133
of the
00:34:23.133 --> 00:34:23.613
year
00:34:23.973 --> 00:34:24.813
in California
00:34:24.813 --> 00:34:25.503
a few years back.
00:34:25.743 --> 00:34:25.893
So
00:34:25.893 --> 00:34:26.163
she's
00:34:26.163 --> 00:34:26.493
very
00:34:26.493 --> 00:34:27.213
pro tech,
00:34:27.813 --> 00:34:27.963
but
00:34:27.963 --> 00:34:28.173
she
00:34:28.173 --> 00:34:28.533
said,
00:34:28.533 --> 00:34:28.743
if
00:34:28.743 --> 00:34:28.893
this
00:34:28.893 --> 00:34:29.133
trend
00:34:29.133 --> 00:34:29.948
continues,
00:34:30.843 --> 00:34:31.293
we're gonna go
00:34:31.293 --> 00:34:31.833
obsolete.
00:34:32.613 --> 00:34:32.883
And we're
00:34:32.883 --> 00:34:33.483
really worried
00:34:33.483 --> 00:34:33.693
about when
00:34:33.693 --> 00:34:33.753
we
00:34:33.753 --> 00:34:34.203
first started
00:34:34.203 --> 00:34:34.353
having
00:34:34.353 --> 00:34:34.983
these conversations
00:34:34.983 --> 00:34:35.193
two and
00:34:35.193 --> 00:34:35.373
a half
00:34:35.373 --> 00:34:35.613
years
00:34:35.613 --> 00:34:35.823
ago.
00:34:36.198 --> 00:34:36.348
It
00:34:36.348 --> 00:34:36.498
was
00:34:36.498 --> 00:34:37.308
really regarding
00:34:37.728 --> 00:34:38.268
the place of
00:34:38.268 --> 00:34:38.358
the
00:34:38.358 --> 00:34:38.868
mainstream
00:34:38.868 --> 00:34:39.438
school
00:34:39.812 --> 00:34:40.262
and
00:34:40.322 --> 00:34:41.342
mainstream public school
00:34:41.342 --> 00:34:42.092
and where that's
00:34:42.092 --> 00:34:42.452
going.
00:34:42.572 --> 00:34:42.812
And
00:34:42.812 --> 00:34:42.872
I
00:34:42.872 --> 00:34:43.292
think,
00:34:43.682 --> 00:34:43.772
you
00:34:43.772 --> 00:34:43.892
know,
00:34:43.892 --> 00:34:44.372
coming out
00:34:44.372 --> 00:34:44.912
of COVID in
00:34:44.912 --> 00:34:45.632
particular,
00:34:45.917 --> 00:34:46.787
we're looking at
00:34:47.604 --> 00:34:48.114
virtual
00:34:48.114 --> 00:34:50.664
schools, you know, homeschooling,
00:34:50.909 --> 00:34:51.329
alpha
00:34:51.329 --> 00:34:51.929
schools.
00:34:51.929 --> 00:34:52.079
There's
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:52.259
all
00:34:52.259 --> 00:34:52.829
these schools
00:34:52.829 --> 00:34:52.949
that
00:34:52.949 --> 00:34:53.009
are
00:34:53.009 --> 00:34:53.339
becoming
00:34:53.339 --> 00:34:54.719
alternatives to schools, right?
00:34:55.049 --> 00:34:55.349
We
00:34:55.349 --> 00:34:55.529
feel
00:34:55.529 --> 00:34:55.619
like
00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:55.799
there's
00:34:55.799 --> 00:34:56.819
a really important
00:34:56.819 --> 00:34:58.379
place in, in America
00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:00.329
for the mainstream neighborhood,
00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:02.669
public And
00:35:02.669 --> 00:35:03.149
that's
00:35:03.149 --> 00:35:03.359
what
00:35:03.359 --> 00:35:03.479
I
00:35:03.479 --> 00:35:03.809
see
00:35:03.809 --> 00:35:04.229
as being
00:35:04.229 --> 00:35:04.919
a big concern,
00:35:05.069 --> 00:35:05.309
is
00:35:05.309 --> 00:35:05.609
that the
00:35:05.609 --> 00:35:05.939
more we
00:35:05.969 --> 00:35:06.869
hollow that out,
00:35:07.889 --> 00:35:08.039
the
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:08.399
more that
00:35:08.399 --> 00:35:09.089
it becomes like,
00:35:09.359 --> 00:35:09.599
well, if
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:09.719
we're
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:10.019
gonna go
00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:10.739
to school
00:35:11.759 --> 00:35:11.939
and
00:35:11.939 --> 00:35:12.269
watch
00:35:12.269 --> 00:35:12.959
a screen,
00:35:13.349 --> 00:35:13.499
my
00:35:13.499 --> 00:35:13.799
kid can
00:35:13.799 --> 00:35:14.039
do that
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:14.129
at
00:35:14.129 --> 00:35:14.429
home.
00:35:14.789 --> 00:35:14.999
Why
00:35:14.999 --> 00:35:15.239
send
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:15.779
him to school?
00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:16.529
You know,
00:35:16.919 --> 00:35:17.219
we
00:35:17.219 --> 00:35:18.209
continue hollowing
00:35:18.209 --> 00:35:18.719
that out
00:35:19.169 --> 00:35:19.409
till
00:35:19.409 --> 00:35:19.529
at
00:35:19.529 --> 00:35:19.769
some
00:35:19.769 --> 00:35:19.949
point
00:35:19.949 --> 00:35:20.579
we hit a tipping
00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:20.969
point
00:35:21.089 --> 00:35:21.389
that we
00:35:21.389 --> 00:35:21.599
can't
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.169
get back from.
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:22.499
'cause, you
00:35:22.499 --> 00:35:22.799
know,
00:35:22.919 --> 00:35:23.729
every year
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:26.189
at, if attendance drops, if enrollment
00:35:26.189 --> 00:35:27.329
drops, your funding drops,
00:35:27.509 --> 00:35:27.959
gets harder
00:35:27.959 --> 00:35:28.499
to fund.
00:35:28.934 --> 00:35:29.504
Therefore it gets,
00:35:29.564 --> 00:35:29.774
it's
00:35:29.774 --> 00:35:29.924
like
00:35:29.924 --> 00:35:30.044
you're
00:35:30.044 --> 00:35:30.374
running
00:35:30.374 --> 00:35:30.614
up a
00:35:30.614 --> 00:35:31.154
hill
00:35:31.514 --> 00:35:32.354
backwards.
00:35:32.774 --> 00:35:32.954
And
00:35:32.954 --> 00:35:33.134
so
00:35:33.134 --> 00:35:33.494
I think
00:35:33.494 --> 00:35:33.674
that
00:35:33.674 --> 00:35:34.244
that's what
00:35:34.604 --> 00:35:35.534
is a really
00:35:36.044 --> 00:35:36.974
big cause for
00:35:36.974 --> 00:35:37.484
concern
00:35:37.784 --> 00:35:38.564
down this path
00:35:38.564 --> 00:35:38.864
that we're
00:35:38.974 --> 00:35:39.089
Anjanette McNeely: on.
00:35:39.749 --> 00:35:40.439
Gene Tavernetti: And it's interesting
00:35:40.439 --> 00:35:41.729
how schools.
00:35:42.749 --> 00:35:42.929
are
00:35:42.929 --> 00:35:43.739
in competition.
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:45.466
The, you know, our, mainstream
00:35:45.466 --> 00:35:46.096
public schools
00:35:46.096 --> 00:35:46.876
are in competition
00:35:46.881 --> 00:35:47.041
with
00:35:47.041 --> 00:35:47.481
charters.
00:35:47.626 --> 00:35:49.216
And so they are running,
00:35:49.276 --> 00:35:49.426
you
00:35:49.426 --> 00:35:49.726
know, how
00:35:49.726 --> 00:35:49.936
can
00:35:49.936 --> 00:35:50.176
we
00:35:50.176 --> 00:35:50.716
provide
00:35:50.716 --> 00:35:50.836
what
00:35:50.836 --> 00:35:50.956
the
00:35:50.956 --> 00:35:52.036
charter's providing
00:35:52.156 --> 00:35:52.336
and
00:35:52.336 --> 00:35:52.666
what's a
00:35:52.666 --> 00:35:52.996
charter,
00:35:52.996 --> 00:35:53.896
usually providing
00:35:53.926 --> 00:35:54.556
more tech.
00:35:54.946 --> 00:35:55.546
And
00:35:55.546 --> 00:35:55.966
so
00:35:55.966 --> 00:35:56.416
they get
00:35:56.416 --> 00:35:56.986
onto this
00:35:57.016 --> 00:35:57.976
this treadmill
00:35:58.036 --> 00:35:58.426
and they
00:35:58.426 --> 00:35:58.636
don't know
00:35:58.636 --> 00:35:58.756
how
00:35:58.756 --> 00:35:58.846
to
00:35:58.846 --> 00:35:59.056
get
00:35:59.056 --> 00:35:59.386
off.
00:35:59.506 --> 00:35:59.776
And
00:35:59.776 --> 00:35:59.926
as
00:35:59.926 --> 00:36:00.706
an administrator
00:36:00.706 --> 00:36:01.666
it's hard to,
00:36:02.131 --> 00:36:02.311
to
00:36:02.311 --> 00:36:03.211
back away and say,
00:36:03.211 --> 00:36:03.391
well,
00:36:03.391 --> 00:36:03.991
wait a second,
00:36:03.991 --> 00:36:04.411
maybe we're
00:36:04.411 --> 00:36:04.921
not doing the
00:36:04.921 --> 00:36:05.131
right
00:36:05.131 --> 00:36:05.341
thing.
00:36:05.341 --> 00:36:05.731
Maybe
00:36:05.731 --> 00:36:05.851
all
00:36:05.851 --> 00:36:06.631
these things that I was
00:36:06.631 --> 00:36:07.591
cheerleading for,
00:36:08.071 --> 00:36:08.521
uh,
00:36:08.521 --> 00:36:09.631
weren't quite
00:36:09.751 --> 00:36:10.171
the best
00:36:10.171 --> 00:36:11.311
thing to do for kids.
00:36:11.641 --> 00:36:12.211
So,
00:36:12.241 --> 00:36:12.571
so
00:36:12.571 --> 00:36:13.441
everybody has
00:36:13.441 --> 00:36:13.951
some,
00:36:14.041 --> 00:36:14.431
uh,
00:36:14.461 --> 00:36:15.451
readjustment
00:36:16.111 --> 00:36:17.161
administrators,
00:36:17.161 --> 00:36:18.691
parents thinking as
00:36:18.691 --> 00:36:19.261
Frank talked
00:36:19.261 --> 00:36:19.561
about,
00:36:19.561 --> 00:36:21.061
thinking about what happens at home,
00:36:21.331 --> 00:36:22.171
how we,
00:36:22.201 --> 00:36:22.411
how
00:36:22.411 --> 00:36:22.981
we interact
00:36:22.981 --> 00:36:23.101
with
00:36:23.101 --> 00:36:23.701
our children.
00:36:24.167 --> 00:36:24.227
I
00:36:24.227 --> 00:36:25.457
think we just have to, you
00:36:25.457 --> 00:36:25.667
know,
00:36:25.727 --> 00:36:25.937
eat
00:36:25.937 --> 00:36:26.447
a big piece
00:36:26.447 --> 00:36:27.167
of humble pie
00:36:27.167 --> 00:36:27.257
and
00:36:27.257 --> 00:36:27.407
say,
00:36:27.407 --> 00:36:27.527
we
00:36:27.527 --> 00:36:28.337
made a mistake.
00:36:29.822 --> 00:36:30.302
Bart: Yes.
00:36:30.872 --> 00:36:33.692
You share that learning is fundamentally social.
00:36:34.292 --> 00:36:38.642
So how has device heavy instruction changed the social experience of school?
00:36:39.051 --> 00:36:40.066
Gene Tavernetti: it's just taking it away.
00:36:40.096 --> 00:36:42.916
I mean, you walk into a, you walk into a classroom and everybody's
00:36:42.916 --> 00:36:43.066
got
00:36:43.066 --> 00:36:44.776
headphones on and looking at a screen,
00:36:44.806 --> 00:36:45.286
where's
00:36:45.286 --> 00:36:45.826
the interaction?
00:36:46.824 --> 00:36:47.221
And
00:36:47.221 --> 00:36:48.121
so then,
00:36:48.181 --> 00:36:48.811
uh, I'm
00:36:48.811 --> 00:36:48.961
gonna
00:36:48.961 --> 00:36:49.441
go off on
00:36:49.441 --> 00:36:50.161
a tangent here.
00:36:50.221 --> 00:36:51.241
We could go off, you
00:36:51.241 --> 00:36:51.391
know,
00:36:51.391 --> 00:36:51.601
on
00:36:51.601 --> 00:36:52.261
AI
00:36:52.411 --> 00:36:52.801
to where
00:36:52.801 --> 00:36:53.731
now we get
00:36:53.731 --> 00:36:54.481
interaction with
00:36:54.481 --> 00:36:55.021
ai.
00:36:55.291 --> 00:36:55.681
AI
00:36:55.681 --> 00:36:56.041
can be
00:36:56.041 --> 00:36:56.791
our friends,
00:36:57.211 --> 00:36:57.991
which has been
00:36:57.991 --> 00:36:58.441
very
00:36:58.441 --> 00:36:59.041
scary
00:36:59.131 --> 00:36:59.851
for folks.
00:37:00.211 --> 00:37:01.231
So we
00:37:01.231 --> 00:37:02.101
lose skills.
00:37:02.551 --> 00:37:02.731
We
00:37:02.731 --> 00:37:03.061
don't know
00:37:03.061 --> 00:37:03.211
how
00:37:03.211 --> 00:37:03.301
to
00:37:03.301 --> 00:37:04.141
make friends.
00:37:04.351 --> 00:37:06.361
We don't know how to, to interact
00:37:06.391 --> 00:37:07.291
appropriately.
00:37:07.721 --> 00:37:07.991
all
00:37:07.991 --> 00:37:08.081
of
00:37:08.081 --> 00:37:08.291
those
00:37:08.291 --> 00:37:08.711
things
00:37:08.711 --> 00:37:09.641
contribute
00:37:09.881 --> 00:37:10.511
to the
00:37:10.511 --> 00:37:11.291
answer being
00:37:11.291 --> 00:37:11.951
more tech.
00:37:12.436 --> 00:37:12.616
You
00:37:12.616 --> 00:37:12.736
know,
00:37:12.766 --> 00:37:13.156
we'll
00:37:13.156 --> 00:37:13.366
we'll
00:37:13.486 --> 00:37:14.236
we'll give them some
00:37:14.236 --> 00:37:15.616
interaction with the tech.
00:37:15.925 --> 00:37:16.015
Frank: yeah,
00:37:16.015 --> 00:37:16.435
we'll give 'em an
00:37:16.435 --> 00:37:17.005
AI friend.
00:37:17.365 --> 00:37:17.485
You
00:37:17.485 --> 00:37:17.935
know, there's a,
00:37:17.935 --> 00:37:19.375
there's a couple of examples
00:37:19.375 --> 00:37:19.525
that
00:37:19.525 --> 00:37:19.645
are
00:37:19.645 --> 00:37:19.795
in
00:37:19.795 --> 00:37:19.915
the
00:37:19.915 --> 00:37:20.125
book
00:37:20.125 --> 00:37:20.245
and a
00:37:20.245 --> 00:37:20.785
couple that didn't
00:37:20.785 --> 00:37:21.205
make it,
00:37:21.235 --> 00:37:21.445
uh,
00:37:21.445 --> 00:37:21.655
that
00:37:21.655 --> 00:37:21.775
were
00:37:21.775 --> 00:37:22.075
great.
00:37:22.075 --> 00:37:22.645
Interview,
00:37:22.975 --> 00:37:23.755
interview
00:37:23.815 --> 00:37:24.205
quotes
00:37:24.205 --> 00:37:24.955
from teachers
00:37:25.618 --> 00:37:26.668
the teacher, uh, I
00:37:26.818 --> 00:37:27.118
think a
00:37:27.118 --> 00:37:29.248
Spanish teacher Um, the
00:37:29.248 --> 00:37:29.578
kids
00:37:29.578 --> 00:37:30.808
are on their screens
00:37:31.588 --> 00:37:32.398
and, uh,
00:37:32.398 --> 00:37:33.088
she's six
00:37:33.088 --> 00:37:33.688
feet away
00:37:34.648 --> 00:37:34.978
and they
00:37:34.978 --> 00:37:35.128
will
00:37:35.128 --> 00:37:36.538
send her a message
00:37:36.988 --> 00:37:37.528
on
00:37:37.528 --> 00:37:38.428
the, on
00:37:38.428 --> 00:37:40.018
the, device
00:37:40.438 --> 00:37:40.828
instead
00:37:40.828 --> 00:37:41.848
of just raising the hand and
00:37:41.848 --> 00:37:42.148
asking
00:37:42.148 --> 00:37:42.778
the question.
00:37:43.108 --> 00:37:43.228
She
00:37:43.258 --> 00:37:43.438
said,
00:37:43.438 --> 00:37:43.648
Tim,
00:37:43.648 --> 00:37:43.798
I'm
00:37:43.798 --> 00:37:44.188
right here.
00:37:44.188 --> 00:37:44.278
You
00:37:44.278 --> 00:37:44.728
can ask me the
00:37:44.728 --> 00:37:45.208
question.
00:37:45.598 --> 00:37:46.408
Oh, nevermind.
00:37:47.188 --> 00:37:47.938
And they're
00:37:47.938 --> 00:37:48.958
not comfortable
00:37:49.228 --> 00:37:49.558
having
00:37:49.558 --> 00:37:50.638
that interaction, like
00:37:50.638 --> 00:37:50.908
with the
00:37:50.908 --> 00:37:51.268
adults.
00:37:51.268 --> 00:37:51.448
But
00:37:51.808 --> 00:37:51.898
you
00:37:51.898 --> 00:37:52.138
know, like
00:37:52.138 --> 00:37:53.098
Jean said, you walk into the
00:37:53.098 --> 00:37:53.578
classroom and
00:37:53.578 --> 00:37:53.638
you
00:37:53.638 --> 00:37:54.868
can almost measure
00:37:55.138 --> 00:37:55.678
without even
00:37:55.678 --> 00:37:56.248
looking.
00:37:56.818 --> 00:37:57.028
are
00:37:57.028 --> 00:37:57.928
they on screens or not,
00:37:57.928 --> 00:37:58.318
because of how
00:37:58.378 --> 00:37:58.798
quiet.
00:37:58.798 --> 00:37:58.978
it is.
00:37:59.518 --> 00:37:59.728
a
00:37:59.728 --> 00:38:00.928
lot less interaction.
00:38:01.468 --> 00:38:02.428
And Jonathan, he talked
00:38:02.428 --> 00:38:03.418
about as an anxious generation,
00:38:03.418 --> 00:38:03.568
he's a
00:38:03.568 --> 00:38:04.018
professor
00:38:04.018 --> 00:38:04.108
at
00:38:04.108 --> 00:38:04.918
NYU, right?
00:38:05.488 --> 00:38:05.818
Um,
00:38:05.908 --> 00:38:06.268
how
00:38:06.268 --> 00:38:07.528
those last five minutes
00:38:07.528 --> 00:38:08.638
before class started
00:38:08.968 --> 00:38:09.238
would
00:38:09.238 --> 00:38:09.748
be
00:38:10.318 --> 00:38:10.918
the
00:38:10.978 --> 00:38:11.428
most
00:38:11.428 --> 00:38:11.908
bubbly
00:38:11.908 --> 00:38:12.358
time
00:38:12.358 --> 00:38:12.478
in
00:38:12.478 --> 00:38:13.408
his lectures.
00:38:13.738 --> 00:38:15.688
Everybody's talking to the person next to them, what they
00:38:15.688 --> 00:38:15.958
did on
00:38:15.958 --> 00:38:16.018
the
00:38:16.018 --> 00:38:16.948
weekend or whatever,
00:38:16.948 --> 00:38:17.128
or
00:38:17.428 --> 00:38:17.788
whatever
00:38:17.788 --> 00:38:18.418
test is coming
00:38:18.418 --> 00:38:18.658
up.
00:38:19.018 --> 00:38:19.198
And
00:38:19.198 --> 00:38:19.468
now
00:38:19.468 --> 00:38:20.278
it's the quietest
00:38:20.278 --> 00:38:20.548
time.
00:38:21.033 --> 00:38:21.323
It's
00:38:21.328 --> 00:38:21.358
the
00:38:21.358 --> 00:38:21.988
quietest time
00:38:21.988 --> 00:38:22.138
because
00:38:22.138 --> 00:38:22.498
everybody's on
00:38:22.498 --> 00:38:22.588
their
00:38:22.588 --> 00:38:23.038
phones.
00:38:23.578 --> 00:38:23.758
And
00:38:23.758 --> 00:38:23.848
the
00:38:23.848 --> 00:38:24.268
same thing
00:38:24.268 --> 00:38:24.328
I
00:38:24.328 --> 00:38:24.478
think
00:38:24.478 --> 00:38:24.838
happens
00:38:24.838 --> 00:38:24.928
in
00:38:24.928 --> 00:38:25.378
schools
00:38:25.378 --> 00:38:25.498
that
00:38:25.498 --> 00:38:26.578
allow phones.
00:38:26.956 --> 00:38:27.256
what
00:38:27.256 --> 00:38:27.496
used
00:38:27.496 --> 00:38:27.616
to
00:38:27.616 --> 00:38:27.706
be
00:38:27.706 --> 00:38:27.826
the
00:38:27.826 --> 00:38:28.156
most
00:38:28.156 --> 00:38:28.606
bubbly
00:38:28.606 --> 00:38:29.086
time, the
00:38:29.086 --> 00:38:29.476
most,
00:38:29.566 --> 00:38:29.866
you know,
00:38:29.866 --> 00:38:30.046
the
00:38:30.046 --> 00:38:30.376
most
00:38:30.376 --> 00:38:30.976
interactive
00:38:30.976 --> 00:38:31.276
time,
00:38:31.276 --> 00:38:31.456
the
00:38:31.516 --> 00:38:31.936
periods
00:38:31.936 --> 00:38:32.866
right before,
00:38:33.496 --> 00:38:33.766
right
00:38:33.766 --> 00:38:34.306
before
00:38:34.336 --> 00:38:34.456
a
00:38:34.456 --> 00:38:34.816
class
00:38:34.816 --> 00:38:35.206
started,
00:38:35.206 --> 00:38:35.746
or,
00:38:35.746 --> 00:38:36.766
or, uh, maybe the in the
00:38:36.766 --> 00:38:37.516
passing period
00:38:37.876 --> 00:38:38.086
had
00:38:38.086 --> 00:38:38.626
become very
00:38:38.626 --> 00:38:38.956
quiet.
00:38:39.016 --> 00:38:39.346
Everybody's
00:38:39.346 --> 00:38:39.826
walking
00:38:39.826 --> 00:38:40.096
with their
00:38:40.096 --> 00:38:40.786
head down.
00:38:40.951 --> 00:38:41.311
so the
00:38:41.311 --> 00:38:41.581
social
00:38:41.581 --> 00:38:42.451
interaction piece
00:38:42.451 --> 00:38:43.141
that's being lost
00:38:43.141 --> 00:38:43.231
is
00:38:43.231 --> 00:38:43.441
being
00:38:43.441 --> 00:38:43.711
lost
00:38:43.711 --> 00:38:43.831
in
00:38:43.831 --> 00:38:44.671
the classroom during,
00:38:45.271 --> 00:38:45.571
during
00:38:45.571 --> 00:38:46.441
guided practice, during
00:38:46.501 --> 00:38:47.311
closure, during
00:38:47.311 --> 00:38:47.581
checking
00:38:47.581 --> 00:38:47.701
for
00:38:47.701 --> 00:38:48.781
understanding because
00:38:49.171 --> 00:38:50.341
it's being done by the bot.
00:38:50.441 --> 00:38:50.591
and
00:38:50.591 --> 00:38:50.711
it's
00:38:50.711 --> 00:38:50.921
being
00:38:50.921 --> 00:38:51.551
lost outside of
00:38:51.551 --> 00:38:51.611
the
00:38:51.611 --> 00:38:52.151
classroom as
00:38:52.885 --> 00:38:58.315
Bart: Are there any other things that teachers are telling you about student communication, resilience regulation?
00:38:59.026 --> 00:38:59.236
Frank: Yeah.
00:38:59.236 --> 00:38:59.416
I
00:38:59.416 --> 00:38:59.746
never
00:38:59.746 --> 00:39:00.106
had heard
00:39:00.106 --> 00:39:00.496
the term
00:39:00.496 --> 00:39:00.916
dys reg
00:39:01.216 --> 00:39:02.236
dysregulation
00:39:02.236 --> 00:39:02.656
before
00:39:02.656 --> 00:39:02.986
until
00:39:02.986 --> 00:39:03.286
about
00:39:03.286 --> 00:39:03.466
two
00:39:03.466 --> 00:39:04.096
years ago
00:39:04.606 --> 00:39:04.936
about
00:39:04.936 --> 00:39:05.056
the
00:39:05.056 --> 00:39:06.171
ability to, to
00:39:06.316 --> 00:39:06.556
kind
00:39:06.556 --> 00:39:07.006
of center
00:39:07.006 --> 00:39:07.726
themselves and
00:39:08.026 --> 00:39:10.186
find how to, how to
00:39:10.216 --> 00:39:10.726
behave.
00:39:10.726 --> 00:39:11.656
So definitely
00:39:11.656 --> 00:39:12.879
we've heard that.
00:39:13.054 --> 00:39:13.204
I
00:39:13.204 --> 00:39:13.504
think we
00:39:13.504 --> 00:39:13.684
see
00:39:13.684 --> 00:39:13.774
it
00:39:13.774 --> 00:39:13.984
in our
00:39:13.984 --> 00:39:14.524
programs as
00:39:14.524 --> 00:39:16.144
well, that, that, all
00:39:16.144 --> 00:39:16.264
the
00:39:16.264 --> 00:39:16.654
pieces
00:39:16.654 --> 00:39:16.804
you
00:39:16.804 --> 00:39:17.134
asked
00:39:17.134 --> 00:39:18.094
about are happening.
00:39:18.844 --> 00:39:18.964
Gene Tavernetti: Well,
00:39:18.964 --> 00:39:19.114
and I
00:39:19.114 --> 00:39:19.894
think something else
00:39:19.894 --> 00:39:22.504
that, that, we've been doing for, for quite
00:39:22.504 --> 00:39:25.084
a long time, that the technology has exasperated,
00:39:25.706 --> 00:39:25.856
We
00:39:25.856 --> 00:39:25.946
have
00:39:25.946 --> 00:39:26.006
to
00:39:26.006 --> 00:39:26.186
have a
00:39:26.186 --> 00:39:26.696
program
00:39:26.696 --> 00:39:27.296
for everything.
00:39:28.016 --> 00:39:28.136
The
00:39:28.136 --> 00:39:29.576
kids don't communicate.
00:39:29.576 --> 00:39:29.696
They
00:39:29.696 --> 00:39:30.266
don't, oh,
00:39:30.326 --> 00:39:30.836
SEL
00:39:30.986 --> 00:39:31.316
let's have
00:39:31.316 --> 00:39:31.376
a,
00:39:31.406 --> 00:39:31.766
let's have
00:39:31.766 --> 00:39:32.786
a new program.
00:39:33.146 --> 00:39:34.226
And, uh,
00:39:34.586 --> 00:39:34.976
kids don't
00:39:34.976 --> 00:39:35.126
have
00:39:35.126 --> 00:39:35.756
self-esteem.
00:39:35.756 --> 00:39:35.936
Well,
00:39:35.936 --> 00:39:37.076
we need a new program.
00:39:37.076 --> 00:39:37.556
And so we
00:39:37.556 --> 00:39:37.706
have
00:39:37.706 --> 00:39:37.916
all
00:39:37.916 --> 00:39:38.216
of these
00:39:38.216 --> 00:39:38.816
programs
00:39:38.816 --> 00:39:39.026
that are
00:39:39.026 --> 00:39:40.226
supposed to mitigate
00:39:40.706 --> 00:39:41.066
again,
00:39:41.066 --> 00:39:42.206
the issues that
00:39:42.206 --> 00:39:44.006
are being exasperated by
00:39:44.721 --> 00:39:45.746
the, the,
00:39:45.746 --> 00:39:45.926
uh,
00:39:45.926 --> 00:39:46.916
the technology.
00:39:47.246 --> 00:39:49.046
But we don't go to technology.
00:39:50.036 --> 00:39:50.186
We
00:39:50.186 --> 00:39:50.396
don't
00:39:50.396 --> 00:39:51.776
remove technology as an
00:39:51.776 --> 00:39:52.076
answer.
00:39:52.076 --> 00:39:52.616
We bring more
00:39:52.616 --> 00:39:53.606
technology in.
00:39:54.026 --> 00:39:54.806
And, and
00:39:54.806 --> 00:39:55.466
it's just,
00:39:55.586 --> 00:39:57.326
that's the, again, we're captive.
00:39:57.866 --> 00:39:59.576
Our thinking doesn't move beyond
00:40:00.386 --> 00:40:01.736
Frank: There's a, there's a good chapter in
00:40:01.736 --> 00:40:02.186
the book,
00:40:02.246 --> 00:40:02.546
uh,
00:40:02.546 --> 00:40:02.936
that our,
00:40:03.086 --> 00:40:03.746
our third,
00:40:03.956 --> 00:40:04.586
uh, author
00:40:04.586 --> 00:40:04.976
who's not
00:40:04.976 --> 00:40:05.156
here
00:40:05.156 --> 00:40:05.366
today,
00:40:05.366 --> 00:40:05.456
' cause
00:40:05.456 --> 00:40:05.666
she's
00:40:05.666 --> 00:40:06.176
actually in a
00:40:06.176 --> 00:40:06.626
school,
00:40:07.646 --> 00:40:08.606
again, what I think
00:40:08.606 --> 00:40:09.296
makes us different.
00:40:09.296 --> 00:40:09.626
We're actually
00:40:09.626 --> 00:40:09.746
in
00:40:09.746 --> 00:40:11.066
schools every
00:40:11.066 --> 00:40:11.456
week.
00:40:11.752 --> 00:40:12.052
But
00:40:12.052 --> 00:40:12.352
she
00:40:12.352 --> 00:40:12.562
wrote
00:40:12.562 --> 00:40:12.622
a
00:40:12.622 --> 00:40:13.492
chapter on durable
00:40:13.492 --> 00:40:14.422
skills and
00:40:14.422 --> 00:40:15.352
integrating those
00:40:15.352 --> 00:40:15.622
into
00:40:15.622 --> 00:40:16.282
the lesson design.
00:40:16.897 --> 00:40:18.097
and then to really
00:40:18.127 --> 00:40:18.727
making that be
00:40:18.997 --> 00:40:19.387
not
00:40:19.387 --> 00:40:19.567
an
00:40:19.567 --> 00:40:20.707
add-on program,
00:40:21.067 --> 00:40:21.277
but
00:40:21.277 --> 00:40:21.487
like,
00:40:21.487 --> 00:40:21.877
you teach
00:40:21.877 --> 00:40:22.537
a lesson and
00:40:22.537 --> 00:40:23.347
you integrate
00:40:23.347 --> 00:40:24.457
these skills, right?
00:40:24.457 --> 00:40:24.607
You
00:40:24.607 --> 00:40:25.897
integrate communication,
00:40:26.227 --> 00:40:27.127
collaboration,
00:40:27.127 --> 00:40:28.147
critical thinking.
00:40:28.477 --> 00:40:28.867
It's not
00:40:28.867 --> 00:40:29.497
an aside
00:40:29.497 --> 00:40:29.737
and it's
00:40:29.737 --> 00:40:29.947
not
00:40:29.947 --> 00:40:30.007
a
00:40:30.007 --> 00:40:30.577
program.
00:40:30.577 --> 00:40:31.027
It's something
00:40:31.027 --> 00:40:31.957
you just do
00:40:32.317 --> 00:40:32.527
as
00:40:32.527 --> 00:40:32.857
part of
00:40:32.857 --> 00:40:32.947
your
00:40:32.947 --> 00:40:33.727
lesson design.
00:40:34.462 --> 00:40:34.702
probably
00:40:34.702 --> 00:40:34.792
my
00:40:34.792 --> 00:40:35.422
favorite part of
00:40:35.422 --> 00:40:35.782
the book
00:40:35.782 --> 00:40:35.962
is
00:40:35.962 --> 00:40:36.292
the
00:40:36.712 --> 00:40:36.862
the
00:40:36.862 --> 00:40:37.672
superintendent
00:40:37.672 --> 00:40:38.152
speech
00:40:38.182 --> 00:40:38.872
at the end of
00:40:39.616 --> 00:40:40.066
and
00:40:40.066 --> 00:40:40.126
the
00:40:40.126 --> 00:40:41.086
superintendent kind of
00:40:41.716 --> 00:40:42.736
is compared
00:40:43.036 --> 00:40:43.186
to
00:40:43.186 --> 00:40:44.116
a superintendent
00:40:44.326 --> 00:40:45.166
in the prologue
00:40:45.166 --> 00:40:45.286
of
00:40:45.286 --> 00:40:45.766
the book,
00:40:46.156 --> 00:40:46.456
who
00:40:46.456 --> 00:40:46.666
was
00:40:47.086 --> 00:40:47.266
the
00:40:47.266 --> 00:40:48.886
gung ho in 2014.
00:40:49.156 --> 00:40:49.306
The
00:40:49.306 --> 00:40:49.546
setting
00:40:49.546 --> 00:40:50.176
is 2014
00:40:50.176 --> 00:40:50.776
for the prologue.
00:40:51.121 --> 00:40:52.251
Very gung-ho, very
00:40:52.256 --> 00:40:52.606
like,
00:40:52.606 --> 00:40:52.726
you
00:40:52.726 --> 00:40:52.816
know,
00:40:52.816 --> 00:40:53.266
let's get
00:40:53.266 --> 00:40:53.746
this,
00:40:54.106 --> 00:40:54.316
let's
00:40:54.316 --> 00:40:54.466
get
00:40:54.466 --> 00:40:54.616
this,
00:40:54.616 --> 00:40:54.706
we
00:40:54.706 --> 00:40:54.856
gotta
00:40:54.856 --> 00:40:55.186
get a screen
00:40:55.186 --> 00:40:55.396
in front
00:40:55.396 --> 00:40:55.906
of every kid.
00:40:56.626 --> 00:40:56.896
The
00:40:56.896 --> 00:40:57.496
superintendent
00:40:57.496 --> 00:40:57.556
in
00:40:57.556 --> 00:40:58.366
2034,
00:40:58.366 --> 00:40:59.386
which is the, which
00:40:59.386 --> 00:41:00.046
is where the epilogue
00:41:00.046 --> 00:41:01.066
is, says, we're not gonna do that.
00:41:01.696 --> 00:41:02.896
We're gonna dial back.
00:41:02.896 --> 00:41:03.886
We're gonna use 'em when, when
00:41:03.886 --> 00:41:04.186
we need.
00:41:04.186 --> 00:41:04.996
' 'em, But
00:41:04.996 --> 00:41:05.086
they're
00:41:05.086 --> 00:41:06.076
not gonna dominate our lives.
00:41:06.076 --> 00:41:07.636
We don't like what we're seeing with our kids.
00:41:07.924 --> 00:41:08.014
And
00:41:08.014 --> 00:41:08.104
he
00:41:08.104 --> 00:41:11.224
talks about durable skills and communication and collaboration and all of that.
00:41:11.944 --> 00:41:15.304
And, and the super fictional superintendent says, um,
00:41:15.567 --> 00:41:17.307
not that long ago, computer science
00:41:17.307 --> 00:41:18.387
majors were like
00:41:18.387 --> 00:41:18.507
the
00:41:18.507 --> 00:41:19.227
exploding
00:41:19.227 --> 00:41:19.797
major.
00:41:19.947 --> 00:41:20.427
Right?
00:41:20.457 --> 00:41:20.757
And
00:41:20.877 --> 00:41:21.297
colleges
00:41:21.297 --> 00:41:22.047
across the country,
00:41:22.677 --> 00:41:22.887
some
00:41:22.887 --> 00:41:22.977
of
00:41:22.977 --> 00:41:23.097
those
00:41:23.097 --> 00:41:23.277
kids
00:41:23.277 --> 00:41:24.207
can't find a job now
00:41:24.567 --> 00:41:25.347
because AI has
00:41:25.347 --> 00:41:25.587
taken
00:41:25.677 --> 00:41:25.827
that
00:41:25.827 --> 00:41:26.097
away,
00:41:26.097 --> 00:41:26.367
right?
00:41:26.607 --> 00:41:26.757
We
00:41:26.757 --> 00:41:26.907
need
00:41:26.907 --> 00:41:27.687
to make the kids
00:41:27.687 --> 00:41:28.947
durable themselves.
00:41:29.187 --> 00:41:29.307
And
00:41:29.307 --> 00:41:29.427
it's
00:41:29.427 --> 00:41:29.697
not so
00:41:29.697 --> 00:41:30.477
much the content,
00:41:30.477 --> 00:41:30.897
it's not so much
00:41:30.897 --> 00:41:31.527
the program
00:41:31.737 --> 00:41:32.247
It's having
00:41:32.247 --> 00:41:33.207
those skills
00:41:33.447 --> 00:41:33.657
where
00:41:33.657 --> 00:41:33.957
they
00:41:33.957 --> 00:41:34.377
get to
00:41:34.377 --> 00:41:34.917
adapt
00:41:34.917 --> 00:41:35.037
and
00:41:35.037 --> 00:41:35.607
interact
00:41:35.607 --> 00:41:35.697
and
00:41:35.697 --> 00:41:36.387
communicate and
00:41:36.387 --> 00:41:37.047
collaborate.
00:41:37.377 --> 00:41:37.707
That
00:41:37.707 --> 00:41:37.887
is
00:41:37.887 --> 00:41:38.277
missing.
00:41:38.277 --> 00:41:38.367
And
00:41:38.367 --> 00:41:39.267
it's not bringing in,
00:41:39.567 --> 00:41:39.807
you know,
00:41:39.807 --> 00:41:40.077
let's
00:41:40.077 --> 00:41:40.317
add
00:41:40.317 --> 00:41:40.557
on
00:41:40.557 --> 00:41:40.707
an
00:41:40.707 --> 00:41:41.127
SEL
00:41:41.127 --> 00:41:41.547
program
00:41:41.547 --> 00:41:41.997
or whatever.
00:41:41.997 --> 00:41:42.777
It's, let's
00:41:42.837 --> 00:41:43.407
integrate
00:41:43.407 --> 00:41:43.497
it
00:41:43.497 --> 00:41:44.877
into what the kids are doing every day.
00:41:45.207 --> 00:41:45.537
Very
00:41:45.537 --> 00:41:45.927
difficult
00:41:45.927 --> 00:41:46.047
to
00:41:46.047 --> 00:41:47.007
do if they're on screens
00:41:47.007 --> 00:41:47.787
three or four hours a
00:41:47.787 --> 00:41:47.997
day.
00:41:48.987 --> 00:41:54.567
Bart: So if you were advising a superintendent tomorrow, what's the first move toward balance
00:41:55.092 --> 00:41:56.472
Gene Tavernetti: by digital captives?
00:41:57.196 --> 00:41:57.556
I, say
00:41:57.556 --> 00:41:57.646
it
00:41:57.646 --> 00:41:57.886
as a
00:41:57.886 --> 00:41:59.866
joke, but you know, as Frank said,
00:41:59.896 --> 00:42:00.796
this, is
00:42:00.826 --> 00:42:01.066
what's
00:42:01.066 --> 00:42:02.476
different about this book
00:42:02.566 --> 00:42:03.346
is that
00:42:03.406 --> 00:42:04.306
the three of us
00:42:04.306 --> 00:42:04.936
who were
00:42:04.936 --> 00:42:05.626
involved in this
00:42:05.626 --> 00:42:05.986
book.
00:42:06.346 --> 00:42:08.686
We're actually working in schools
00:42:09.076 --> 00:42:09.436
in
00:42:09.436 --> 00:42:09.556
the
00:42:09.556 --> 00:42:10.126
aughts.
00:42:10.306 --> 00:42:10.906
I never said
00:42:10.906 --> 00:42:11.056
that
00:42:11.056 --> 00:42:11.446
before
00:42:11.476 --> 00:42:11.626
in
00:42:11.626 --> 00:42:12.316
the aughts.
00:42:12.496 --> 00:42:12.766
We,
00:42:12.826 --> 00:42:12.976
We,
00:42:12.976 --> 00:42:13.096
were
00:42:13.096 --> 00:42:14.446
working and seeing this,
00:42:14.446 --> 00:42:14.926
seeing
00:42:14.926 --> 00:42:17.236
this work, seeing, seeing,
00:42:17.296 --> 00:42:17.596
uh,
00:42:17.596 --> 00:42:17.926
what we
00:42:17.926 --> 00:42:18.196
talked
00:42:18.196 --> 00:42:18.376
about
00:42:18.376 --> 00:42:18.976
actually
00:42:18.976 --> 00:42:19.486
doing
00:42:19.486 --> 00:42:19.936
this work,
00:42:20.056 --> 00:42:20.326
you
00:42:20.326 --> 00:42:21.916
know, that I'd be, you know
00:42:21.976 --> 00:42:22.366
Frank
00:42:22.396 --> 00:42:22.636
used
00:42:22.636 --> 00:42:24.796
to you'd be at, be in your district doing,
00:42:24.826 --> 00:42:25.246
doing that
00:42:25.246 --> 00:42:25.576
work.
00:42:25.876 --> 00:42:27.166
So we know that
00:42:27.346 --> 00:42:27.526
it's
00:42:27.526 --> 00:42:28.096
not enough to
00:42:28.096 --> 00:42:29.356
identify the problem.
00:42:29.896 --> 00:42:30.016
You
00:42:30.016 --> 00:42:30.796
know, what, what can
00:42:30.796 --> 00:42:30.916
we
00:42:30.916 --> 00:42:31.426
do about
00:42:31.426 --> 00:42:31.516
it?
00:42:31.996 --> 00:42:32.206
It's
00:42:32.206 --> 00:42:32.596
gonna be
00:42:32.596 --> 00:42:32.776
as
00:42:32.776 --> 00:42:33.466
difficult
00:42:33.526 --> 00:42:33.646
to
00:42:33.646 --> 00:42:34.066
get out
00:42:34.066 --> 00:42:34.246
of the
00:42:34.246 --> 00:42:34.726
problem
00:42:34.726 --> 00:42:34.906
as
00:42:34.906 --> 00:42:34.996
it
00:42:34.996 --> 00:42:35.176
was
00:42:35.176 --> 00:42:35.446
easy
00:42:35.446 --> 00:42:36.166
to get in.
00:42:36.646 --> 00:42:37.216
But
00:42:37.516 --> 00:42:37.756
there
00:42:37.756 --> 00:42:38.506
is a roadmap,
00:42:38.746 --> 00:42:38.926
and
00:42:38.926 --> 00:42:39.016
I
00:42:39.016 --> 00:42:39.256
think
00:42:39.256 --> 00:42:39.646
that's,
00:42:39.646 --> 00:42:39.946
that's
00:42:39.946 --> 00:42:40.546
the power
00:42:40.546 --> 00:42:41.146
of, of this
00:42:41.146 --> 00:42:41.356
book.
00:42:41.356 --> 00:42:41.446
There
00:42:41.446 --> 00:42:41.596
are
00:42:41.596 --> 00:42:42.916
so many folks,
00:42:43.306 --> 00:42:43.606
in
00:42:43.606 --> 00:42:43.816
the
00:42:44.026 --> 00:42:44.836
consulting
00:42:44.836 --> 00:42:46.126
business who
00:42:46.126 --> 00:42:49.036
like to go in and walk around and
00:42:49.036 --> 00:42:49.516
say, ah, you
00:42:49.516 --> 00:42:50.176
need to do this, you
00:42:50.176 --> 00:42:50.386
need to
00:42:50.386 --> 00:42:50.506
do
00:42:50.506 --> 00:42:50.866
that,
00:42:50.926 --> 00:42:51.106
but
00:42:51.106 --> 00:42:51.916
how do you do it?
00:42:52.276 --> 00:42:52.456
And
00:42:52.456 --> 00:42:52.516
I
00:42:52.516 --> 00:42:53.086
think that's
00:42:53.086 --> 00:42:53.386
a big
00:42:53.386 --> 00:42:53.806
difference
00:42:53.806 --> 00:42:54.796
in, in, this book.
00:42:55.696 --> 00:42:55.906
Frank: Yeah, I
00:42:55.906 --> 00:42:56.116
think
00:42:56.116 --> 00:42:56.236
we
00:42:56.236 --> 00:42:57.796
spent, we spend basically
00:42:57.796 --> 00:42:58.696
the intro
00:42:58.696 --> 00:42:58.846
and
00:42:58.846 --> 00:42:59.266
chapter
00:42:59.266 --> 00:42:59.596
one
00:42:59.596 --> 00:42:59.956
presenting
00:42:59.956 --> 00:43:00.526
the problem
00:43:00.850 --> 00:43:01.060
and
00:43:01.060 --> 00:43:01.420
then,
00:43:01.420 --> 00:43:02.050
uh, two
00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:02.260
through
00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:02.710
six
00:43:02.710 --> 00:43:02.860
how
00:43:02.860 --> 00:43:02.980
to,
00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:03.580
how to get
00:43:03.580 --> 00:43:05.170
out of that, And
00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:05.890
so so
00:43:05.890 --> 00:43:06.130
yeah,
00:43:06.130 --> 00:43:06.340
read
00:43:06.340 --> 00:43:06.430
the
00:43:06.430 --> 00:43:06.760
book
00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:07.000
would
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:07.210
be the
00:43:07.210 --> 00:43:07.450
first
00:43:07.450 --> 00:43:07.540
thing.
00:43:07.540 --> 00:43:07.660
But
00:43:07.660 --> 00:43:07.720
I
00:43:07.720 --> 00:43:07.960
think
00:43:08.260 --> 00:43:08.770
secondly, it
00:43:08.770 --> 00:43:08.860
would
00:43:08.860 --> 00:43:08.920
be
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:09.130
like,
00:43:09.340 --> 00:43:09.490
let's
00:43:09.490 --> 00:43:09.820
go to your
00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:10.300
classrooms.
00:43:10.570 --> 00:43:10.720
Let's
00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:10.840
go
00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:11.080
walk
00:43:11.080 --> 00:43:11.380
20
00:43:11.380 --> 00:43:12.580
classrooms randomly
00:43:13.150 --> 00:43:13.300
and
00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:14.230
let's just look
00:43:14.230 --> 00:43:14.500
at
00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:15.820
how engaged are
00:43:15.820 --> 00:43:16.215
the students
00:43:17.740 --> 00:43:18.040
with
00:43:18.040 --> 00:43:18.400
only
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:18.640
one
00:43:18.640 --> 00:43:19.150
variable?
00:43:19.150 --> 00:43:19.330
Are
00:43:19.330 --> 00:43:19.480
they
00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:20.110
on screens or
00:43:20.165 --> 00:43:20.365
not?
00:43:21.040 --> 00:43:21.160
And
00:43:21.160 --> 00:43:21.310
what
00:43:21.310 --> 00:43:21.400
you're
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:21.610
gonna
00:43:21.610 --> 00:43:21.760
see
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:21.880
is
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:21.970
the
00:43:21.970 --> 00:43:22.510
more they're on
00:43:22.510 --> 00:43:22.900
screens,
00:43:22.900 --> 00:43:23.470
the less engaged.
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:24.640
um,
00:43:24.700 --> 00:43:25.060
and I don't
00:43:25.060 --> 00:43:25.180
need
00:43:25.180 --> 00:43:25.630
a, you
00:43:25.630 --> 00:43:25.840
know,
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:26.080
a
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:26.710
double
00:43:26.710 --> 00:43:26.950
blind
00:43:26.950 --> 00:43:27.520
experiment
00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:27.640
for
00:43:27.640 --> 00:43:27.790
that.
00:43:27.790 --> 00:43:27.970
We can
00:43:27.970 --> 00:43:28.180
just go
00:43:28.180 --> 00:43:28.300
and
00:43:28.300 --> 00:43:28.510
walk
00:43:28.510 --> 00:43:28.690
into
00:43:28.690 --> 00:43:28.900
20
00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:29.560
classrooms, or probably
00:43:29.560 --> 00:43:30.130
any school in
00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:30.190
the
00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:30.640
country
00:43:31.120 --> 00:43:31.450
that,
00:43:31.450 --> 00:43:31.780
any
00:43:32.620 --> 00:43:33.280
mainstream public
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:33.580
school in the
00:43:33.580 --> 00:43:34.120
country that,
00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:35.755
purports
00:43:35.755 --> 00:43:35.860
to
00:43:35.860 --> 00:43:35.950
be
00:43:35.950 --> 00:43:36.550
balanced
00:43:36.940 --> 00:43:37.810
and we would see it.
00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:42.730
Bart: So what does healthy intentional tech integration actually look like then?
00:43:43.294 --> 00:43:43.654
Frank: that's a good
00:43:43.654 --> 00:43:44.104
question.
00:43:44.104 --> 00:43:44.164
We
00:43:44.164 --> 00:43:44.614
were just having
00:43:44.614 --> 00:43:44.704
a
00:43:44.704 --> 00:43:45.304
conversation
00:43:45.304 --> 00:43:46.714
yesterday actually with,
00:43:46.714 --> 00:43:47.284
uh,
00:43:47.314 --> 00:43:47.944
regarding
00:43:47.944 --> 00:43:48.184
how to
00:43:48.184 --> 00:43:49.504
use AI to
00:43:49.504 --> 00:43:50.344
help us write,
00:43:50.374 --> 00:43:50.824
um,
00:43:50.914 --> 00:43:51.449
lessons.
00:43:52.084 --> 00:43:52.384
that
00:43:52.384 --> 00:43:54.574
integrate, collaboration, communication And everything
00:43:54.574 --> 00:43:54.814
else.
00:43:55.174 --> 00:43:56.064
It's not saying,
00:43:56.854 --> 00:43:57.144
I'll
00:43:57.144 --> 00:43:57.224
start
00:43:57.224 --> 00:43:57.384
by
00:43:57.384 --> 00:43:57.799
saying, what it's
00:43:57.799 --> 00:43:58.189
not,
00:43:58.279 --> 00:43:58.609
Um,
00:43:58.669 --> 00:43:58.879
it's
00:43:58.879 --> 00:43:59.239
not
00:43:59.239 --> 00:43:59.419
like
00:43:59.419 --> 00:43:59.869
taking the
00:44:00.469 --> 00:44:01.099
Chromebooks away.
00:44:01.459 --> 00:44:01.609
You
00:44:01.609 --> 00:44:01.879
know, it's
00:44:01.879 --> 00:44:02.119
not
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:02.419
that
00:44:02.569 --> 00:44:02.719
the
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:03.349
kiddos are gonna
00:44:03.349 --> 00:44:03.499
need
00:44:03.499 --> 00:44:04.399
'em, they're gonna need
00:44:04.399 --> 00:44:04.519
to
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:04.639
be
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:05.149
able to
00:44:05.179 --> 00:44:05.419
every
00:44:05.419 --> 00:44:05.569
day
00:44:05.569 --> 00:44:05.719
we
00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:05.899
use
00:44:05.899 --> 00:44:06.799
it, we use email.
00:44:07.189 --> 00:44:07.369
We
00:44:07.369 --> 00:44:07.519
do,
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:07.969
fa uh,
00:44:07.999 --> 00:44:08.299
video
00:44:08.299 --> 00:44:08.689
conferences.
00:44:08.689 --> 00:44:09.289
We're using technology
00:44:09.289 --> 00:44:09.799
right now.
00:44:09.799 --> 00:44:10.099
Right.
00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:10.999
Um,
00:44:11.059 --> 00:44:11.119
we're
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:11.299
gonna
00:44:11.299 --> 00:44:11.479
put
00:44:11.479 --> 00:44:11.659
this
00:44:11.659 --> 00:44:12.289
out on social
00:44:12.289 --> 00:44:12.649
media
00:44:12.949 --> 00:44:13.159
so
00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:14.029
we know that we need
00:44:14.029 --> 00:44:14.749
to use
00:44:14.839 --> 00:44:15.559
the devices.
00:44:15.889 --> 00:44:16.669
What healthy
00:44:16.669 --> 00:44:17.119
is,
00:44:17.299 --> 00:44:17.479
it's
00:44:17.479 --> 00:44:18.244
not the default.
00:44:18.949 --> 00:44:19.129
The
00:44:19.129 --> 00:44:19.729
default
00:44:19.729 --> 00:44:20.209
is the
00:44:20.209 --> 00:44:21.289
human interaction.
00:44:21.649 --> 00:44:22.099
So I'd
00:44:22.099 --> 00:44:22.639
be looking at
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:22.669
a
00:44:22.669 --> 00:44:23.119
classroom
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:23.209
at
00:44:23.209 --> 00:44:23.269
the
00:44:23.269 --> 00:44:23.989
elementary level,
00:44:23.989 --> 00:44:24.139
let's
00:44:24.139 --> 00:44:24.409
say
00:44:24.885 --> 00:44:25.245
you know,
00:44:25.275 --> 00:44:25.395
the
00:44:25.395 --> 00:44:25.725
kids
00:44:25.725 --> 00:44:25.845
are
00:44:25.845 --> 00:44:26.115
not
00:44:26.115 --> 00:44:26.355
on
00:44:26.355 --> 00:44:26.445
it
00:44:26.445 --> 00:44:26.715
more
00:44:26.715 --> 00:44:27.075
than
00:44:27.435 --> 00:44:28.005
10%
00:44:28.005 --> 00:44:28.065
of
00:44:28.065 --> 00:44:28.545
the time
00:44:28.545 --> 00:44:28.785
in the
00:44:28.785 --> 00:44:29.715
primary grades.
00:44:30.255 --> 00:44:30.495
There's
00:44:30.495 --> 00:44:31.215
actually, in the
00:44:31.215 --> 00:44:32.145
superintendent speech,
00:44:32.145 --> 00:44:32.805
in chapter six,
00:44:33.165 --> 00:44:33.285
he
00:44:33.285 --> 00:44:33.555
gives
00:44:33.555 --> 00:44:34.605
this theoretical,
00:44:35.025 --> 00:44:35.325
like
00:44:35.325 --> 00:44:36.315
graduated,
00:44:36.315 --> 00:44:36.795
uh,
00:44:36.855 --> 00:44:37.755
digital model
00:44:38.175 --> 00:44:38.685
Where
00:44:39.675 --> 00:44:39.855
in
00:44:39.855 --> 00:44:40.815
kindergarten, first grade,
00:44:40.815 --> 00:44:41.085
second
00:44:41.085 --> 00:44:41.385
grade.
00:44:41.595 --> 00:44:43.095
Kids aren't on, but like 10,
00:44:43.095 --> 00:44:43.965
20% of the time,
00:44:44.385 --> 00:44:44.565
by
00:44:44.565 --> 00:44:45.525
the time you get to high school,
00:44:45.555 --> 00:44:46.545
maybe 40% of the
00:44:46.545 --> 00:44:46.785
time,
00:44:47.085 --> 00:44:47.295
but
00:44:47.325 --> 00:44:48.195
it's all
00:44:49.065 --> 00:44:50.745
always less than the contact.
00:44:50.745 --> 00:44:54.030
They're having human to they can get
00:44:54.030 --> 00:44:54.540
the screens at
00:44:54.540 --> 00:44:54.900
home.
00:44:55.410 --> 00:44:55.560
They
00:44:55.560 --> 00:44:56.190
shouldn't, but they
00:44:56.190 --> 00:44:56.640
can.
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:58.355
What they can't get at home, at,
00:44:58.530 --> 00:44:59.010
at home
00:44:59.010 --> 00:44:59.310
is
00:44:59.520 --> 00:44:59.730
the
00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:00.900
the interaction
00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:01.780
with 29 classmates.
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:02.790
Right,
00:45:02.790 --> 00:45:02.940
They
00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:03.270
can't
00:45:03.270 --> 00:45:03.480
get
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:03.720
that.
00:45:03.720 --> 00:45:04.080
So that's
00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:04.140
a
00:45:04.140 --> 00:45:04.350
part
00:45:04.350 --> 00:45:04.560
that
00:45:04.950 --> 00:45:05.190
I think
00:45:05.190 --> 00:45:05.460
would be
00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:05.700
a
00:45:05.705 --> 00:45:06.700
a key piece in the balance,
00:45:06.915 --> 00:45:07.035
Gene Tavernetti: you
00:45:07.035 --> 00:45:07.785
know, and, and
00:45:07.785 --> 00:45:08.625
many times,
00:45:08.625 --> 00:45:09.195
uh,
00:45:09.375 --> 00:45:09.585
as
00:45:09.585 --> 00:45:10.215
administrators
00:45:10.215 --> 00:45:10.935
we're afraid
00:45:10.935 --> 00:45:11.085
to
00:45:11.085 --> 00:45:11.415
make these
00:45:11.415 --> 00:45:11.865
changes.
00:45:11.865 --> 00:45:12.135
What's
00:45:12.135 --> 00:45:12.615
gonna happen
00:45:12.615 --> 00:45:13.035
if we do it?
00:45:13.575 --> 00:45:13.875
You know,
00:45:13.875 --> 00:45:14.055
when
00:45:14.055 --> 00:45:14.745
the kids,
00:45:15.135 --> 00:45:15.555
when
00:45:15.735 --> 00:45:15.945
we
00:45:15.945 --> 00:45:17.025
have convinced a
00:45:17.025 --> 00:45:17.385
teacher
00:45:17.385 --> 00:45:18.075
to try
00:45:18.075 --> 00:45:18.165
a
00:45:18.165 --> 00:45:18.855
lesson without
00:45:18.855 --> 00:45:19.455
screens,
00:45:19.845 --> 00:45:20.055
it's
00:45:20.055 --> 00:45:20.775
almost like a sigh
00:45:20.775 --> 00:45:20.895
of
00:45:20.895 --> 00:45:21.375
relief.
00:45:21.435 --> 00:45:21.555
The
00:45:21.555 --> 00:45:22.845
kids are so happy
00:45:23.205 --> 00:45:23.655
not
00:45:23.655 --> 00:45:23.805
to
00:45:23.805 --> 00:45:24.555
be on
00:45:24.915 --> 00:45:25.095
the
00:45:25.095 --> 00:45:25.815
Chromebook
00:45:25.935 --> 00:45:26.145
all
00:45:26.145 --> 00:45:26.685
period.
00:45:26.955 --> 00:45:27.795
Or a big part of,
00:45:27.855 --> 00:45:27.975
a
00:45:27.975 --> 00:45:28.185
big
00:45:28.185 --> 00:45:28.425
part
00:45:28.425 --> 00:45:28.485
of
00:45:28.515 --> 00:45:28.575
the
00:45:28.605 --> 00:45:28.965
period.
00:45:28.995 --> 00:45:29.145
They
00:45:29.145 --> 00:45:29.595
miss it.
00:45:30.225 --> 00:45:30.765
They miss it.
00:45:30.765 --> 00:45:31.155
And, And,
00:45:31.155 --> 00:45:31.425
that's
00:45:31.425 --> 00:45:32.655
that transformational
00:45:33.345 --> 00:45:33.795
things that
00:45:33.795 --> 00:45:33.885
we're
00:45:33.885 --> 00:45:34.245
talking
00:45:34.245 --> 00:45:34.635
about.
00:45:34.635 --> 00:45:34.875
And,
00:45:34.875 --> 00:45:35.055
and
00:45:35.055 --> 00:45:36.375
we learn from other people
00:45:36.375 --> 00:45:36.495
and
00:45:36.495 --> 00:45:36.825
we need
00:45:36.825 --> 00:45:37.185
to have
00:45:37.185 --> 00:45:37.425
that,
00:45:37.695 --> 00:45:37.845
to
00:45:37.845 --> 00:45:38.265
have that
00:45:38.265 --> 00:45:38.985
contact.
00:45:39.315 --> 00:45:39.615
We
00:45:39.615 --> 00:45:40.335
are, um,
00:45:41.055 --> 00:45:41.265
uh,
00:45:41.295 --> 00:45:41.445
we're
00:45:41.445 --> 00:45:41.835
stealing
00:45:41.835 --> 00:45:42.135
that.
00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:42.760
we
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:42.940
just
00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:43.060
have
00:45:43.060 --> 00:45:43.150
to
00:45:43.150 --> 00:45:43.330
have
00:45:43.330 --> 00:45:43.750
some,
00:45:43.750 --> 00:45:44.955
some courage to try things.
00:45:45.925 --> 00:45:46.045
Frank: I
00:45:46.045 --> 00:45:46.165
was
00:45:46.165 --> 00:45:46.315
in
00:45:46.315 --> 00:45:46.705
a in
00:45:46.705 --> 00:45:48.025
a math classroom,
00:45:48.595 --> 00:45:48.865
an
00:45:48.865 --> 00:45:49.465
alternative
00:45:49.525 --> 00:45:50.455
education site.
00:45:50.515 --> 00:45:50.975
Um,
00:45:51.685 --> 00:45:53.695
kids are used to just being on the right?
00:45:53.695 --> 00:45:55.435
That's, that's the nature
00:45:55.435 --> 00:45:56.125
of an alternative
00:45:56.125 --> 00:45:56.515
ed site
00:45:56.515 --> 00:45:56.755
a lot
00:45:56.755 --> 00:45:56.905
of the
00:45:58.195 --> 00:45:58.345
And
00:45:58.345 --> 00:45:58.465
we
00:45:58.465 --> 00:45:58.855
convinced
00:45:58.855 --> 00:45:59.575
the teacher to try
00:45:59.575 --> 00:45:59.725
out
00:45:59.755 --> 00:45:59.875
a
00:45:59.875 --> 00:46:00.175
math
00:46:00.175 --> 00:46:00.535
lesson
00:46:00.565 --> 00:46:00.955
just six
00:46:00.955 --> 00:46:01.375
kids
00:46:01.855 --> 00:46:02.005
in
00:46:02.005 --> 00:46:02.875
the class.
00:46:03.055 --> 00:46:03.205
And
00:46:03.205 --> 00:46:03.445
they,
00:46:03.595 --> 00:46:03.715
you
00:46:03.715 --> 00:46:03.985
know,
00:46:04.015 --> 00:46:04.255
she
00:46:04.255 --> 00:46:05.095
taught the lesson.
00:46:05.095 --> 00:46:05.695
She had
00:46:05.700 --> 00:46:05.935
a, a
00:46:05.935 --> 00:46:06.445
hook
00:46:06.445 --> 00:46:06.685
that
00:46:06.685 --> 00:46:07.435
connected to
00:46:07.435 --> 00:46:07.975
real life
00:46:07.975 --> 00:46:08.395
learning.
00:46:08.395 --> 00:46:09.385
She had an objective,
00:46:09.385 --> 00:46:09.745
she
00:46:10.135 --> 00:46:10.405
taught
00:46:10.405 --> 00:46:10.525
the
00:46:10.525 --> 00:46:11.095
big idea.
00:46:11.125 --> 00:46:14.425
I think it was like computing simple Yeah,
00:46:14.485 --> 00:46:14.635
that's
00:46:14.635 --> 00:46:14.755
what
00:46:14.755 --> 00:46:14.815
it
00:46:14.815 --> 00:46:14.995
was.
00:46:14.995 --> 00:46:15.085
And
00:46:15.085 --> 00:46:15.205
it
00:46:15.205 --> 00:46:15.685
was, the hook
00:46:15.685 --> 00:46:16.225
was like,
00:46:16.225 --> 00:46:16.855
if you have money in
00:46:16.855 --> 00:46:16.915
the
00:46:16.915 --> 00:46:18.445
bank, uh, what do you
00:46:18.445 --> 00:46:18.715
have
00:46:19.165 --> 00:46:19.645
2%
00:46:19.645 --> 00:46:20.425
interest or 4%
00:46:21.205 --> 00:46:21.445
Uh,
00:46:21.475 --> 00:46:21.625
and
00:46:21.625 --> 00:46:21.925
then she
00:46:21.925 --> 00:46:22.435
modeled
00:46:22.435 --> 00:46:22.525
and
00:46:22.525 --> 00:46:22.615
the
00:46:22.615 --> 00:46:23.035
kids did
00:46:23.035 --> 00:46:23.335
guided
00:46:23.335 --> 00:46:23.725
practice
00:46:23.725 --> 00:46:23.995
using
00:46:23.995 --> 00:46:24.835
the whiteboards from
00:46:24.835 --> 00:46:25.765
2005
00:46:26.035 --> 00:46:26.965
or prior to,
00:46:27.279 --> 00:46:27.612
and
00:46:27.612 --> 00:46:27.762
at
00:46:27.762 --> 00:46:27.882
the
00:46:27.882 --> 00:46:28.032
end
00:46:28.032 --> 00:46:28.092
of
00:46:28.092 --> 00:46:28.182
the
00:46:28.182 --> 00:46:28.602
lesson,
00:46:28.602 --> 00:46:28.812
we're
00:46:28.812 --> 00:46:29.022
gonna
00:46:29.022 --> 00:46:29.202
sit
00:46:29.202 --> 00:46:29.472
down and
00:46:29.472 --> 00:46:29.982
debrief the
00:46:29.982 --> 00:46:30.312
lesson.
00:46:30.312 --> 00:46:30.462
And
00:46:30.462 --> 00:46:30.942
the student,
00:46:31.555 --> 00:46:31.915
had
00:46:31.915 --> 00:46:32.305
walked
00:46:32.305 --> 00:46:33.385
out and walked back in
00:46:33.895 --> 00:46:34.255
and she
00:46:34.255 --> 00:46:34.615
said,
00:46:34.615 --> 00:46:35.515
miss, can
00:46:35.515 --> 00:46:35.935
we do that again
00:46:35.935 --> 00:46:36.325
tomorrow?
00:46:36.876 --> 00:46:37.416
Yeah.
00:46:37.776 --> 00:46:38.106
The teacher
00:46:38.111 --> 00:46:38.171
said,
00:46:38.901 --> 00:46:39.021
The
00:46:39.021 --> 00:46:39.321
teacher
00:46:39.321 --> 00:46:39.621
said,
00:46:39.621 --> 00:46:39.801
uh,
00:46:39.861 --> 00:46:39.951
did
00:46:39.951 --> 00:46:40.191
you
00:46:40.311 --> 00:46:40.791
enjoy that?
00:46:40.791 --> 00:46:41.391
And she's like, yeah, I
00:46:41.391 --> 00:46:41.961
like learning.
00:46:42.501 --> 00:46:43.311
You know, So I
00:46:43.311 --> 00:46:43.461
think
00:46:43.461 --> 00:46:43.611
that
00:46:43.611 --> 00:46:43.851
there's,
00:46:43.851 --> 00:46:44.211
that,
00:46:44.511 --> 00:46:44.841
that's
00:46:44.841 --> 00:46:44.931
a
00:46:44.931 --> 00:46:46.131
huge aha,
00:46:46.613 --> 00:46:47.093
but
00:46:47.093 --> 00:46:47.183
we
00:46:47.183 --> 00:46:47.363
gotta
00:46:47.363 --> 00:46:48.263
convince the teacher to go
00:46:48.263 --> 00:46:48.413
back
00:46:48.413 --> 00:46:48.593
and do
00:46:48.593 --> 00:46:48.653
it
00:46:48.653 --> 00:46:49.313
again tomorrow
00:46:49.643 --> 00:46:49.973
because
00:46:49.973 --> 00:46:50.093
it's
00:46:50.093 --> 00:46:51.023
so easy to
00:46:51.023 --> 00:46:51.413
not,
00:46:51.473 --> 00:46:51.893
right?
00:46:52.823 --> 00:46:53.693
yeah, that, that,
00:46:53.693 --> 00:46:54.083
uh,
00:46:54.263 --> 00:46:54.533
that was
00:46:54.533 --> 00:46:54.713
like a
00:46:54.713 --> 00:46:54.893
really
00:46:54.893 --> 00:46:55.223
telling
00:46:55.223 --> 00:46:55.823
moment for me,
00:46:55.823 --> 00:46:56.303
both for
00:46:56.303 --> 00:46:56.453
what
00:46:56.453 --> 00:46:56.783
Gene was
00:46:56.783 --> 00:46:57.143
saying
00:46:57.413 --> 00:46:57.593
and
00:46:57.593 --> 00:46:57.773
for
00:46:57.773 --> 00:46:57.923
how
00:46:57.923 --> 00:46:58.283
hard
00:46:58.283 --> 00:46:58.523
it is
00:46:58.523 --> 00:46:59.093
to break those
00:46:59.093 --> 00:46:59.483
habits
00:46:59.483 --> 00:47:00.593
that have become ingrained in the last
00:47:00.593 --> 00:47:02.438
three, 10 years.
00:47:03.164 --> 00:47:08.354
Bart: What questions should leaders be asking before adopting new tech, especially ai?
00:47:09.116 --> 00:47:09.356
Frank: Well,
00:47:09.356 --> 00:47:09.566
there's
00:47:09.566 --> 00:47:09.626
a
00:47:09.626 --> 00:47:09.866
whole
00:47:09.866 --> 00:47:10.376
chapter
00:47:10.376 --> 00:47:10.586
on
00:47:10.586 --> 00:47:10.706
it,
00:47:10.706 --> 00:47:10.856
and
00:47:10.856 --> 00:47:11.186
it's,
00:47:11.186 --> 00:47:12.349
um, it's called,
00:47:12.349 --> 00:47:12.949
uh, using
00:47:12.949 --> 00:47:13.219
the
00:47:13.219 --> 00:47:13.789
educational
00:47:13.789 --> 00:47:14.239
vision or
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:15.514
instructional vision as a filter.
00:47:16.309 --> 00:47:16.879
Um,
00:47:17.419 --> 00:47:17.929
and that should
00:47:17.929 --> 00:47:18.409
be question
00:47:18.409 --> 00:47:18.589
number
00:47:18.589 --> 00:47:20.299
one is what's
00:47:20.299 --> 00:47:20.839
our purpose
00:47:20.839 --> 00:47:21.139
here?
00:47:21.139 --> 00:47:21.439
As
00:47:21.529 --> 00:47:21.799
in
00:47:21.799 --> 00:47:22.219
whatever
00:47:22.219 --> 00:47:22.519
school
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.529
district, there's a fictional school district
00:47:24.529 --> 00:47:24.709
called
00:47:24.739 --> 00:47:25.069
Irving
00:47:25.069 --> 00:47:26.179
School District in the beginning,
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:26.899
what is
00:47:26.899 --> 00:47:27.709
our purpose in
00:47:27.709 --> 00:47:28.069
the Irving
00:47:28.069 --> 00:47:28.789
School District?
00:47:28.789 --> 00:47:28.999
What
00:47:28.999 --> 00:47:29.119
is
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:29.659
our mission,
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:30.259
our vision?
00:47:30.435 --> 00:47:30.765
that
00:47:30.765 --> 00:47:31.035
should be
00:47:31.035 --> 00:47:31.705
the first filter.
00:47:32.102 --> 00:47:32.312
Does
00:47:32.312 --> 00:47:32.612
it fit
00:47:32.612 --> 00:47:32.732
the
00:47:32.732 --> 00:47:33.062
vision
00:47:33.062 --> 00:47:33.152
or
00:47:33.152 --> 00:47:33.362
not?
00:47:33.392 --> 00:47:33.632
If
00:47:33.632 --> 00:47:33.752
in
00:47:33.752 --> 00:47:34.382
our vision we
00:47:34.382 --> 00:47:34.832
say we want
00:47:34.832 --> 00:47:36.272
kids who can collaborate,
00:47:36.662 --> 00:47:37.382
kids who
00:47:37.442 --> 00:47:37.622
can
00:47:37.622 --> 00:47:38.852
communicate well, who can
00:47:38.852 --> 00:47:39.332
sustain
00:47:39.332 --> 00:47:40.202
focus,
00:47:40.232 --> 00:47:40.412
who
00:47:40.412 --> 00:47:41.522
can read deeply?
00:47:42.332 --> 00:47:42.692
Is
00:47:42.692 --> 00:47:42.932
this
00:47:42.932 --> 00:47:44.072
program doing that?
00:47:44.486 --> 00:47:44.696
Let's
00:47:44.696 --> 00:47:44.966
say that
00:47:44.966 --> 00:47:45.566
it is doing all
00:47:45.566 --> 00:47:45.776
those
00:47:46.616 --> 00:47:46.886
Then
00:47:46.886 --> 00:47:46.976
the
00:47:46.976 --> 00:47:47.186
next
00:47:47.186 --> 00:47:47.576
question
00:47:47.576 --> 00:47:47.666
is,
00:47:47.666 --> 00:47:47.876
okay,
00:47:47.876 --> 00:47:48.266
what's
00:47:48.266 --> 00:47:49.136
it replacing?
00:47:49.646 --> 00:47:50.036
Right?
00:47:50.276 --> 00:47:50.546
So
00:47:50.546 --> 00:47:50.816
that's,
00:47:50.816 --> 00:47:51.176
it's always
00:47:51.176 --> 00:47:51.296
an
00:47:51.296 --> 00:47:51.866
opportunity.
00:47:51.866 --> 00:47:52.766
Cost question
00:47:53.246 --> 00:47:53.606
is
00:47:53.606 --> 00:47:53.786
you
00:47:53.786 --> 00:47:53.996
only
00:47:53.996 --> 00:47:55.136
have six hours in a day.
00:47:55.736 --> 00:47:56.156
How
00:47:56.156 --> 00:47:56.576
good
00:47:56.576 --> 00:47:56.846
must
00:47:56.846 --> 00:47:58.046
this program be
00:47:58.616 --> 00:48:00.116
Tola to take some of those
00:48:00.116 --> 00:48:01.226
six hours, right?
00:48:01.226 --> 00:48:02.156
Because I
00:48:02.156 --> 00:48:02.786
mean those, that's
00:48:02.786 --> 00:48:02.936
the
00:48:02.936 --> 00:48:03.626
most valuable
00:48:03.626 --> 00:48:05.216
resource that schools have
00:48:05.216 --> 00:48:05.246
is
00:48:06.146 --> 00:48:06.626
that
00:48:06.626 --> 00:48:06.956
time
00:48:06.956 --> 00:48:07.166
with the
00:48:07.166 --> 00:48:07.586
kiddos.
00:48:07.586 --> 00:48:07.736
And
00:48:07.736 --> 00:48:07.976
if you're
00:48:07.976 --> 00:48:08.546
gonna take some
00:48:08.546 --> 00:48:08.606
of
00:48:08.606 --> 00:48:08.696
that
00:48:08.696 --> 00:48:08.906
time
00:48:08.906 --> 00:48:09.506
away and turn
00:48:09.506 --> 00:48:09.716
it over
00:48:09.716 --> 00:48:10.316
a screen,
00:48:10.766 --> 00:48:11.006
boy
00:48:11.006 --> 00:48:11.096
it
00:48:11.096 --> 00:48:12.236
better meet your vision.
00:48:12.956 --> 00:48:13.166
It
00:48:13.166 --> 00:48:14.006
better meet
00:48:14.156 --> 00:48:14.366
your
00:48:14.366 --> 00:48:15.656
instructional program.
00:48:16.346 --> 00:48:16.646
Um,
00:48:16.676 --> 00:48:16.946
and then
00:48:16.946 --> 00:48:17.486
better
00:48:18.086 --> 00:48:18.266
be
00:48:18.266 --> 00:48:18.536
doing
00:48:18.536 --> 00:48:19.436
a better job of
00:48:19.436 --> 00:48:19.586
it.
00:48:20.036 --> 00:48:22.316
Um, one last quote.
00:48:22.316 --> 00:48:29.299
I know you wants to jump in on this one as well, but from the same Spanish teacher actually, she was talking about, when
00:48:29.299 --> 00:48:29.779
you're in a
00:48:29.779 --> 00:48:30.199
Spanish
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:30.619
class,
00:48:31.369 --> 00:48:32.059
um, or any
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:32.959
language class
00:48:33.229 --> 00:48:33.379
you
00:48:33.379 --> 00:48:34.069
practice,
00:48:34.279 --> 00:48:34.609
right?
00:48:34.757 --> 00:48:35.327
well now
00:48:35.327 --> 00:48:35.597
you can
00:48:35.597 --> 00:48:36.107
practice with
00:48:36.107 --> 00:48:36.197
a
00:48:36.197 --> 00:48:36.527
bot
00:48:36.767 --> 00:48:37.907
instead of practicing with a person.
00:48:38.747 --> 00:48:39.167
And
00:48:39.167 --> 00:48:39.347
what
00:48:39.347 --> 00:48:39.467
the
00:48:39.467 --> 00:48:40.097
teacher was
00:48:40.097 --> 00:48:40.877
talking about
00:48:40.877 --> 00:48:41.057
is
00:48:41.057 --> 00:48:41.327
just
00:48:41.327 --> 00:48:41.927
how,
00:48:42.504 --> 00:48:42.834
much
00:48:42.834 --> 00:48:44.004
more formulaic the
00:48:44.004 --> 00:48:44.604
practice
00:48:44.604 --> 00:48:44.724
is.
00:48:44.724 --> 00:48:44.934
Now,
00:48:44.934 --> 00:48:45.774
in the past, you know,
00:48:45.774 --> 00:48:45.924
you
00:48:45.924 --> 00:48:46.164
would,
00:48:47.334 --> 00:48:47.634
make
00:48:47.634 --> 00:48:48.024
eye to eye
00:48:48.024 --> 00:48:48.864
contact.
00:48:49.194 --> 00:48:49.374
You
00:48:49.374 --> 00:48:49.974
practice
00:48:49.974 --> 00:48:50.334
whatever
00:48:50.334 --> 00:48:50.994
the phrase is.
00:48:50.994 --> 00:48:51.144
You're
00:48:51.144 --> 00:48:51.594
learning,
00:48:51.594 --> 00:48:51.864
you,
00:48:51.864 --> 00:48:52.074
you
00:48:52.074 --> 00:48:52.614
giggle,
00:48:52.614 --> 00:48:53.484
you embarrass yourself
00:48:53.484 --> 00:48:53.544
a
00:48:53.544 --> 00:48:53.724
little
00:48:53.724 --> 00:48:53.934
bit,
00:48:54.354 --> 00:48:54.534
but
00:48:54.534 --> 00:48:55.224
you learn from
00:48:55.224 --> 00:48:55.404
that,
00:48:55.644 --> 00:48:56.004
right?
00:48:56.064 --> 00:48:56.184
You
00:48:56.184 --> 00:48:56.364
learn
00:48:56.364 --> 00:48:56.484
to
00:48:56.484 --> 00:48:56.634
deal
00:48:56.634 --> 00:48:57.294
with embarrassment.
00:48:57.294 --> 00:48:57.534
You learn
00:48:57.534 --> 00:48:57.894
how to.
00:48:58.314 --> 00:48:58.524
Put
00:48:58.524 --> 00:48:59.064
yourself out
00:48:59.064 --> 00:48:59.184
there
00:48:59.184 --> 00:48:59.244
a
00:48:59.244 --> 00:48:59.754
little bit.
00:49:00.144 --> 00:49:00.444
But when
00:49:00.444 --> 00:49:00.534
you.
00:49:01.074 --> 00:49:01.374
getting
00:49:01.374 --> 00:49:02.004
that feedback
00:49:02.004 --> 00:49:02.154
from
00:49:02.154 --> 00:49:02.214
a
00:49:02.214 --> 00:49:11.431
screen, it's only, it's only really assessing were you correct or Um, so I think back to your question of what should superintendent ask themselves?
00:49:11.431 --> 00:49:18.841
I think it's that it's like, what is being lost besides the time, besides does it fit into our vision?
00:49:18.841 --> 00:49:25.176
The, it's a, it's like, what are we losing by, by turning to this program instead of having that human
00:49:26.101 --> 00:49:26.761
Gene Tavernetti: you know, and I, and
00:49:26.761 --> 00:49:30.691
I think the whole vision thing, there's probably people rolling their eyes,
00:49:30.781 --> 00:49:31.081
oh,
00:49:31.081 --> 00:49:31.171
we're
00:49:31.171 --> 00:49:31.441
gonna have
00:49:31.441 --> 00:49:32.191
another vision.
00:49:32.641 --> 00:49:33.601
But, but this is
00:49:33.601 --> 00:49:34.171
really
00:49:34.291 --> 00:49:35.221
an important,
00:49:35.389 --> 00:49:36.679
criteria to make
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:37.339
those decisions
00:49:37.339 --> 00:49:37.639
because
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:37.759
it's
00:49:37.759 --> 00:49:38.299
not like
00:49:38.299 --> 00:49:39.349
you're, you're,
00:49:39.379 --> 00:49:39.889
uh,
00:49:39.889 --> 00:49:40.039
a
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:40.699
new text
00:49:40.759 --> 00:49:44.659
adoption that you have a year to do it, and you have all this time because these people
00:49:44.659 --> 00:49:44.749
are
00:49:44.749 --> 00:49:45.049
coming
00:49:45.049 --> 00:49:48.139
out with these apps, you know, one, one after another.
00:49:48.529 --> 00:49:50.269
So you have to have some sort
00:49:50.269 --> 00:49:51.109
of grounding
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:53.419
to make these decisions, and you have to
00:49:53.629 --> 00:49:55.189
make them fairly quickly.
00:49:55.969 --> 00:49:57.709
Because you have teachers all that.
00:49:57.769 --> 00:49:58.339
They found
00:49:58.339 --> 00:49:58.789
this one,
00:49:58.819 --> 00:49:59.029
they
00:49:59.029 --> 00:49:59.299
found
00:49:59.299 --> 00:50:00.499
that one, and then
00:50:00.499 --> 00:50:03.439
the one that they gave up that platform, guess what?
00:50:03.439 --> 00:50:03.619
They
00:50:03.619 --> 00:50:05.809
just have a super improved version.
00:50:05.959 --> 00:50:07.489
And so if you aren't grounded
00:50:07.489 --> 00:50:07.759
in
00:50:07.759 --> 00:50:08.149
what
00:50:08.209 --> 00:50:08.449
we
00:50:08.449 --> 00:50:09.349
are all about,
00:50:09.739 --> 00:50:09.889
you
00:50:09.889 --> 00:50:10.069
know,
00:50:10.099 --> 00:50:10.999
instructionally,
00:50:11.329 --> 00:50:11.959
you're gonna just
00:50:11.959 --> 00:50:12.439
flounder
00:50:12.469 --> 00:50:14.329
every time, every time we have one
00:50:14.329 --> 00:50:15.199
of those issues.
00:50:15.499 --> 00:50:16.279
And when
00:50:16.279 --> 00:50:17.059
the decisions
00:50:17.059 --> 00:50:17.779
aren't made
00:50:17.839 --> 00:50:18.229
and they
00:50:18.229 --> 00:50:18.709
aren't
00:50:19.399 --> 00:50:20.029
clear
00:50:20.389 --> 00:50:20.569
to
00:50:20.569 --> 00:50:21.379
the teachers,
00:50:21.769 --> 00:50:21.949
they
00:50:21.949 --> 00:50:22.159
just
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:22.519
think, oh,
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:22.819
there's
00:50:22.879 --> 00:50:23.479
capricious.
00:50:23.479 --> 00:50:23.659
They,
00:50:23.779 --> 00:50:24.649
oh, they're anti-tech.
00:50:24.649 --> 00:50:25.969
They're, no, we have to,
00:50:25.999 --> 00:50:26.209
we
00:50:26.209 --> 00:50:26.419
have
00:50:26.419 --> 00:50:26.539
to
00:50:26.539 --> 00:50:27.019
have that
00:50:27.049 --> 00:50:27.559
vision.
00:50:27.709 --> 00:50:28.069
Does this
00:50:28.069 --> 00:50:28.399
match
00:50:28.399 --> 00:50:28.519
the
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:29.029
vision?
00:50:29.089 --> 00:50:29.299
And
00:50:29.299 --> 00:50:29.629
it has
00:50:29.629 --> 00:50:29.719
to
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:29.869
be
00:50:29.869 --> 00:50:30.649
expressed
00:50:30.919 --> 00:50:31.279
how
00:50:31.279 --> 00:50:31.669
this,
00:50:31.699 --> 00:50:31.939
this
00:50:31.939 --> 00:50:32.389
decision
00:50:32.389 --> 00:50:32.569
was
00:50:32.659 --> 00:50:32.959
made.
00:50:33.804 --> 00:50:34.094
Frank: Yeah.
00:50:34.099 --> 00:50:34.939
Dr. Smith
00:50:34.939 --> 00:50:35.239
was in
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:35.599
a, in
00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:35.869
a
00:50:35.869 --> 00:50:36.649
elementary school
00:50:36.649 --> 00:50:37.429
recently, Donna,
00:50:37.451 --> 00:50:37.749
just
00:50:37.749 --> 00:50:37.839
in
00:50:37.839 --> 00:50:37.899
a
00:50:37.899 --> 00:50:38.319
morning
00:50:38.319 --> 00:50:39.444
walk in two hours
00:50:40.299 --> 00:50:40.509
at an
00:50:40.509 --> 00:50:40.899
elementary
00:50:40.899 --> 00:50:41.139
school.
00:50:41.139 --> 00:50:41.559
They, she,
00:50:41.799 --> 00:50:42.189
she
00:50:42.189 --> 00:50:42.819
and the administrator
00:50:42.819 --> 00:50:42.969
that
00:50:43.029 --> 00:50:43.239
she
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:43.329
was
00:50:43.329 --> 00:50:43.689
walking
00:50:43.689 --> 00:50:43.839
with
00:50:43.839 --> 00:50:45.009
came across 12
00:50:45.909 --> 00:50:46.359
student
00:50:46.359 --> 00:50:46.719
facing
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:47.164
apps
00:50:47.919 --> 00:50:48.069
that
00:50:48.069 --> 00:50:48.369
hadn't
00:50:48.369 --> 00:50:48.609
made
00:50:48.609 --> 00:50:48.729
their
00:50:48.729 --> 00:50:49.059
way
00:50:49.059 --> 00:50:49.269
through
00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:49.869
any sort
00:50:49.869 --> 00:50:50.799
of district
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:52.334
filtering system.
00:50:53.409 --> 00:50:53.529
You
00:50:53.529 --> 00:50:53.829
know, these
00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:54.069
are
00:50:54.129 --> 00:50:54.519
apps
00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:54.819
that,
00:50:54.999 --> 00:50:55.179
that
00:50:55.179 --> 00:50:55.509
are, again,
00:50:55.509 --> 00:50:55.599
if
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:55.869
student
00:50:55.869 --> 00:50:56.169
facing
00:50:56.169 --> 00:50:56.259
or
00:50:56.409 --> 00:50:56.499
are
00:50:56.499 --> 00:50:57.249
taking student time, but
00:50:57.969 --> 00:50:58.299
in some
00:50:58.299 --> 00:50:58.599
cases
00:50:58.599 --> 00:50:58.899
they even
00:50:58.899 --> 00:50:59.439
require
00:50:59.439 --> 00:50:59.679
like
00:50:59.709 --> 00:51:00.069
student
00:51:00.069 --> 00:51:00.399
personal
00:51:00.399 --> 00:51:01.659
information being entered into
00:51:02.739 --> 00:51:03.159
And,
00:51:03.189 --> 00:51:03.759
um,
00:51:04.419 --> 00:51:04.599
the
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:05.019
administrators
00:51:05.019 --> 00:51:05.709
were shocked.
00:51:06.099 --> 00:51:06.309
But I
00:51:06.309 --> 00:51:06.939
think one,
00:51:06.969 --> 00:51:07.299
one
00:51:07.299 --> 00:51:07.719
truth
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:08.439
that we've learned
00:51:08.439 --> 00:51:08.919
is,
00:51:09.429 --> 00:51:09.519
you
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:09.609
know,
00:51:09.609 --> 00:51:09.819
going
00:51:09.819 --> 00:51:09.999
back
00:51:09.999 --> 00:51:10.059
to
00:51:10.059 --> 00:51:10.624
your fictional
00:51:10.629 --> 00:51:11.349
superintendent,
00:51:11.409 --> 00:51:11.709
uh,
00:51:11.709 --> 00:51:12.279
and you asked
00:51:12.279 --> 00:51:12.399
like,
00:51:12.399 --> 00:51:12.549
what
00:51:12.549 --> 00:51:12.819
would you
00:51:12.909 --> 00:51:13.299
advise
00:51:13.299 --> 00:51:13.929
a superintendent
00:51:13.929 --> 00:51:14.139
on
00:51:14.589 --> 00:51:14.919
is, maybe
00:51:14.919 --> 00:51:15.219
the very
00:51:15.219 --> 00:51:15.459
first
00:51:15.459 --> 00:51:15.549
thing
00:51:15.549 --> 00:51:15.639
would
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:15.849
be,
00:51:16.089 --> 00:51:16.149
I
00:51:16.149 --> 00:51:16.539
want you to
00:51:16.539 --> 00:51:17.319
estimate
00:51:17.379 --> 00:51:17.589
how
00:51:17.589 --> 00:51:17.829
many
00:51:17.829 --> 00:51:18.159
minutes
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.489
we're gonna
00:51:18.489 --> 00:51:18.969
see
00:51:20.289 --> 00:51:20.739
students
00:51:20.739 --> 00:51:20.859
are
00:51:20.859 --> 00:51:21.489
on screens.
00:51:21.729 --> 00:51:21.939
And
00:51:21.969 --> 00:51:22.569
almost
00:51:22.569 --> 00:51:23.229
always,
00:51:23.229 --> 00:51:24.249
it's an underestimate.
00:51:25.269 --> 00:51:25.539
Yeah.
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:25.929
And
00:51:25.929 --> 00:51:26.019
I.
00:51:26.019 --> 00:51:26.379
think
00:51:26.829 --> 00:51:27.099
If
00:51:27.099 --> 00:51:27.219
you
00:51:27.219 --> 00:51:27.669
follow
00:51:27.669 --> 00:51:27.879
like
00:51:27.879 --> 00:51:28.029
at
00:51:28.029 --> 00:51:28.119
the
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:28.989
secondary level,
00:51:28.989 --> 00:51:29.559
you know, kids go
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:30.009
from period
00:51:30.009 --> 00:51:30.099
to
00:51:30.099 --> 00:51:30.429
period,
00:51:30.609 --> 00:51:31.269
follow
00:51:31.269 --> 00:51:31.389
a
00:51:31.389 --> 00:51:32.524
cohort of kids the whole
00:51:33.579 --> 00:51:33.789
then
00:51:33.789 --> 00:51:34.059
you'll get
00:51:34.059 --> 00:51:34.359
a real
00:51:34.359 --> 00:51:35.919
understanding about, oh man,
00:51:36.489 --> 00:51:36.699
it's
00:51:36.699 --> 00:51:36.939
true.
00:51:36.939 --> 00:51:37.659
They're getting this
00:51:37.659 --> 00:51:38.769
in period one, this in
00:51:38.769 --> 00:51:39.099
period
00:51:39.099 --> 00:51:39.489
two, this in
00:51:39.489 --> 00:51:39.759
period
00:51:39.759 --> 00:51:39.969
three.
00:51:40.359 --> 00:51:40.479
And
00:51:40.479 --> 00:51:40.629
some
00:51:40.629 --> 00:51:40.719
of
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:41.079
the programs
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:41.529
are good, but
00:51:41.529 --> 00:51:41.619
they
00:51:41.619 --> 00:51:41.799
should
00:51:41.799 --> 00:51:41.889
be
00:51:41.889 --> 00:51:42.909
supplementary, they should
00:51:42.909 --> 00:51:43.149
not
00:51:43.149 --> 00:51:43.509
be
00:51:44.019 --> 00:51:44.829
replacing,
00:51:44.829 --> 00:51:45.099
right.
00:51:45.099 --> 00:51:45.249
They,
00:51:45.249 --> 00:51:45.489
they,
00:51:45.489 --> 00:51:45.639
they
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:45.939
should be
00:51:45.939 --> 00:51:46.959
augmenting, they should not
00:51:46.959 --> 00:51:47.199
be
00:51:47.529 --> 00:51:48.214
taking the place
00:51:48.314 --> 00:51:48.534
up.
00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:48.819
And
00:51:48.819 --> 00:51:48.909
in
00:51:48.909 --> 00:51:49.149
many
00:51:49.149 --> 00:51:49.719
places
00:51:50.139 --> 00:51:51.639
it's actually become the instruction
00:51:52.571 --> 00:51:52.931
Gene Tavernetti: or
00:51:53.021 --> 00:51:53.141
a
00:51:53.141 --> 00:51:53.921
substitute for
00:51:53.921 --> 00:51:55.721
instruction more accurately, I think.
00:51:55.811 --> 00:51:56.291
Bart: Makes sense.
00:51:57.041 --> 00:52:01.421
If we get this right, what could schools look like five years from now?
00:52:01.952 --> 00:52:02.102
Frank: Well,
00:52:02.102 --> 00:52:02.282
that's
00:52:02.282 --> 00:52:02.792
what started
00:52:02.792 --> 00:52:02.972
this
00:52:02.972 --> 00:52:03.452
whole thing
00:52:03.992 --> 00:52:04.772
was I was
00:52:04.772 --> 00:52:05.162
asking
00:52:05.162 --> 00:52:05.702
people,
00:52:05.792 --> 00:52:05.912
you
00:52:05.912 --> 00:52:06.692
know, in positions like
00:52:06.692 --> 00:52:07.232
yourself,
00:52:07.862 --> 00:52:08.162
what
00:52:08.162 --> 00:52:08.522
does this look
00:52:08.522 --> 00:52:08.732
like in
00:52:08.732 --> 00:52:09.452
2032?
00:52:09.722 --> 00:52:09.932
And
00:52:09.932 --> 00:52:10.862
in some of the responses
00:52:10.862 --> 00:52:10.982
that
00:52:10.982 --> 00:52:11.072
I
00:52:11.072 --> 00:52:11.462
got,
00:52:11.492 --> 00:52:11.792
uh,
00:52:11.942 --> 00:52:12.092
that
00:52:12.092 --> 00:52:12.722
we got were
00:52:12.722 --> 00:52:12.932
like,
00:52:13.487 --> 00:52:14.747
2032, I wanna make it
00:52:14.747 --> 00:52:15.107
to next,
00:52:15.167 --> 00:52:15.497
next
00:52:15.497 --> 00:52:15.917
week,
00:52:15.977 --> 00:52:16.367
you know,
00:52:16.607 --> 00:52:17.177
because
00:52:17.597 --> 00:52:17.777
it
00:52:17.777 --> 00:52:18.197
was tough
00:52:18.197 --> 00:52:18.677
coming outta the
00:52:18.677 --> 00:52:19.097
pandemic,
00:52:19.097 --> 00:52:19.277
right?
00:52:19.277 --> 00:52:19.397
With
00:52:19.397 --> 00:52:19.787
the kiddos
00:52:19.787 --> 00:52:20.027
running
00:52:20.027 --> 00:52:20.177
for
00:52:20.177 --> 00:52:20.267
the
00:52:20.267 --> 00:52:21.167
hills like we were talking
00:52:21.167 --> 00:52:21.467
about,
00:52:21.467 --> 00:52:21.557
and
00:52:21.557 --> 00:52:21.737
the,
00:52:22.097 --> 00:52:22.547
The mental
00:52:22.547 --> 00:52:22.787
health
00:52:22.787 --> 00:52:24.107
concerns and teachers,
00:52:24.617 --> 00:52:24.977
uh,
00:52:24.977 --> 00:52:25.277
worried
00:52:25.277 --> 00:52:25.397
about
00:52:25.397 --> 00:52:25.787
get coming
00:52:25.787 --> 00:52:25.967
back
00:52:25.967 --> 00:52:26.087
as
00:52:26.087 --> 00:52:26.357
well.
00:52:26.987 --> 00:52:27.137
So
00:52:27.137 --> 00:52:27.197
it
00:52:27.197 --> 00:52:27.437
was
00:52:27.437 --> 00:52:27.797
really
00:52:27.797 --> 00:52:28.427
tough in that
00:52:28.427 --> 00:52:28.757
setting.
00:52:28.757 --> 00:52:29.342
20
00:52:29.342 --> 00:52:30.512
22, 23,
00:52:30.512 --> 00:52:31.097
24.
00:52:32.147 --> 00:52:32.297
So
00:52:32.327 --> 00:52:32.447
we're
00:52:32.447 --> 00:52:33.317
asking that,
00:52:34.487 --> 00:52:34.667
but
00:52:34.667 --> 00:52:35.087
I think,
00:52:35.117 --> 00:52:35.297
uh,
00:52:35.297 --> 00:52:35.987
you know, chapter
00:52:35.987 --> 00:52:36.407
six
00:52:36.407 --> 00:52:36.527
and
00:52:36.527 --> 00:52:36.797
then the
00:52:36.797 --> 00:52:37.667
epilogue really
00:52:37.667 --> 00:52:38.057
talk
00:52:38.057 --> 00:52:38.477
about,
00:52:38.567 --> 00:52:39.797
um, what
00:52:39.797 --> 00:52:40.827
they should look like if
00:52:41.657 --> 00:52:41.837
What
00:52:41.837 --> 00:52:42.767
it should look like is
00:52:43.149 --> 00:52:45.549
standards based, intentional personal
00:52:45.549 --> 00:52:46.119
instruction
00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:46.269
in the
00:52:46.269 --> 00:52:46.809
classroom
00:52:46.809 --> 00:52:46.959
with
00:52:46.959 --> 00:52:47.289
durable
00:52:47.289 --> 00:52:47.679
skills
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:48.459
being built,
00:52:48.887 --> 00:52:49.367
technology
00:52:49.367 --> 00:52:50.327
being used
00:52:51.047 --> 00:52:51.347
in an,
00:52:51.437 --> 00:52:51.557
in
00:52:51.557 --> 00:52:52.277
an augmenting
00:52:52.277 --> 00:52:52.697
manner.
00:52:53.177 --> 00:52:53.957
But outside
00:52:53.957 --> 00:52:54.017
of
00:52:54.017 --> 00:52:54.437
that,
00:52:54.767 --> 00:52:55.127
there's
00:52:55.182 --> 00:52:55.662
connections
00:52:55.672 --> 00:52:56.022
going
00:52:56.022 --> 00:52:56.222
on
00:52:56.222 --> 00:52:56.502
with,
00:52:56.657 --> 00:52:56.717
you
00:52:56.717 --> 00:52:57.617
know, local parks
00:52:57.617 --> 00:52:57.737
and
00:52:57.737 --> 00:52:58.097
rec
00:52:58.697 --> 00:52:58.907
in
00:52:58.907 --> 00:52:59.387
Nicholas
00:52:59.387 --> 00:52:59.837
Bloom,
00:52:59.957 --> 00:53:00.227
uh,
00:53:00.257 --> 00:53:00.947
Nicholas Carr's
00:53:00.947 --> 00:53:01.187
book,
00:53:01.187 --> 00:53:01.457
super
00:53:01.457 --> 00:53:01.697
Bloom, he
00:53:01.697 --> 00:53:01.997
talks
00:53:01.997 --> 00:53:02.357
about
00:53:02.657 --> 00:53:03.737
the decline
00:53:04.247 --> 00:53:06.017
in, in youth,
00:53:06.077 --> 00:53:06.527
Um.
00:53:07.067 --> 00:53:07.667
You know, sports
00:53:07.667 --> 00:53:08.747
league activities,
00:53:08.747 --> 00:53:09.407
scouting
00:53:09.407 --> 00:53:09.767
church
00:53:09.767 --> 00:53:10.427
activities,
00:53:10.787 --> 00:53:11.537
something like
00:53:11.567 --> 00:53:12.467
800 hours a
00:53:12.467 --> 00:53:13.457
year for the average
00:53:13.457 --> 00:53:14.027
teenager
00:53:14.027 --> 00:53:14.147
in
00:53:14.147 --> 00:53:14.507
the last
00:53:14.507 --> 00:53:14.687
10
00:53:14.687 --> 00:53:15.077
years.
00:53:15.407 --> 00:53:16.277
Decline
00:53:16.277 --> 00:53:17.237
in terms of interacting
00:53:17.237 --> 00:53:17.387
with
00:53:17.387 --> 00:53:17.717
others.
00:53:18.017 --> 00:53:18.287
So
00:53:18.287 --> 00:53:18.467
it
00:53:18.467 --> 00:53:18.647
would
00:53:18.647 --> 00:53:19.517
be not just
00:53:19.517 --> 00:53:20.687
what's going on in the school,
00:53:21.617 --> 00:53:22.037
in our
00:53:22.037 --> 00:53:22.967
vision, in
00:53:22.967 --> 00:53:23.117
our
00:53:23.117 --> 00:53:24.407
hope, the school
00:53:24.407 --> 00:53:27.431
becomes a catalyst for a community wide and
00:53:27.431 --> 00:53:27.701
it might
00:53:27.701 --> 00:53:28.151
be asking
00:53:28.151 --> 00:53:28.391
a lot,
00:53:28.391 --> 00:53:28.781
especially
00:53:28.781 --> 00:53:28.961
like
00:53:28.961 --> 00:53:29.231
in really
00:53:29.231 --> 00:53:30.371
large districts and really big
00:53:30.371 --> 00:53:34.156
urban areas, but definitely you can be a hub.
00:53:34.716 --> 00:53:35.016
can be
00:53:35.016 --> 00:53:36.696
a hub where like, you know,
00:53:36.936 --> 00:53:37.506
restaurant
00:53:37.506 --> 00:53:39.636
nights in this community Thursday is no
00:53:39.636 --> 00:53:40.106
screens today.
00:53:41.126 --> 00:53:41.996
Gene Tavernetti: Something else that I think
00:53:41.996 --> 00:53:42.296
is gonna
00:53:42.296 --> 00:53:42.806
be happening
00:53:42.806 --> 00:53:42.986
in,
00:53:42.986 --> 00:53:44.066
in the public schools
00:53:44.066 --> 00:53:46.976
is, um, uh, especially when we're
00:53:46.976 --> 00:53:51.303
asking schools to have an instructional vision there will be
00:53:51.843 --> 00:53:52.143
a lot
00:53:52.143 --> 00:53:53.343
of schools of choice.
00:53:53.842 --> 00:53:54.442
because that's
00:53:54.442 --> 00:53:54.622
one
00:53:54.622 --> 00:53:54.712
of
00:53:54.712 --> 00:53:55.102
the things
00:53:55.107 --> 00:53:55.217
that,
00:53:55.312 --> 00:53:55.492
that
00:53:55.492 --> 00:53:56.452
we have found out
00:53:56.452 --> 00:53:57.052
or that we're
00:53:57.052 --> 00:53:58.552
competing against, is all of
00:53:58.552 --> 00:53:58.732
these
00:53:58.732 --> 00:53:59.002
charter
00:53:59.002 --> 00:53:59.362
schools
00:53:59.362 --> 00:53:59.542
that
00:53:59.542 --> 00:54:02.182
pop up with an emphasis with, with
00:54:02.182 --> 00:54:02.662
something.
00:54:03.022 --> 00:54:03.777
And I,
00:54:03.782 --> 00:54:04.222
I, I
00:54:04.222 --> 00:54:04.642
think that,
00:54:04.642 --> 00:54:07.822
I think that's good that, that we have choice, but
00:54:07.822 --> 00:54:08.092
we have
00:54:08.092 --> 00:54:08.212
to
00:54:08.212 --> 00:54:08.362
be
00:54:08.362 --> 00:54:09.022
sure that
00:54:09.052 --> 00:54:10.042
it's, we're
00:54:10.042 --> 00:54:10.552
protecting
00:54:10.552 --> 00:54:11.062
the kids
00:54:11.062 --> 00:54:11.182
the
00:54:11.182 --> 00:54:11.602
way that,
00:54:11.722 --> 00:54:11.842
the
00:54:11.842 --> 00:54:11.992
way
00:54:11.992 --> 00:54:12.142
that
00:54:12.142 --> 00:54:12.412
Frank
00:54:12.412 --> 00:54:12.712
just,
00:54:12.712 --> 00:54:12.952
just,
00:54:12.952 --> 00:54:13.612
talked about,
00:54:14.315 --> 00:54:15.155
unless,
00:54:15.305 --> 00:54:15.455
you
00:54:15.455 --> 00:54:15.665
know,
00:54:15.750 --> 00:54:17.525
the, the, uh,
00:54:17.585 --> 00:54:18.125
you know, we've
00:54:18.125 --> 00:54:20.945
got these, these alpha schools, alpha School
00:54:20.945 --> 00:54:21.215
now,
00:54:21.215 --> 00:54:21.515
unless
00:54:21.515 --> 00:54:21.665
you
00:54:21.665 --> 00:54:21.995
just
00:54:21.995 --> 00:54:22.415
choose
00:54:22.415 --> 00:54:22.895
that for
00:54:22.895 --> 00:54:23.075
your
00:54:23.135 --> 00:54:23.525
kids,
00:54:23.855 --> 00:54:24.125
but
00:54:24.155 --> 00:54:25.775
we need to, you know,
00:54:26.285 --> 00:54:26.945
be really
00:54:26.945 --> 00:54:27.515
clear about
00:54:27.515 --> 00:54:27.665
who
00:54:27.665 --> 00:54:28.235
we are
00:54:29.030 --> 00:54:29.390
and,
00:54:29.390 --> 00:54:31.010
and who we are is
00:54:31.430 --> 00:54:31.580
the
00:54:31.580 --> 00:54:32.030
way Frank
00:54:32.030 --> 00:54:32.540
described
00:54:32.540 --> 00:54:32.660
it
00:54:32.660 --> 00:54:33.500
right now is
00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:33.950
not,
00:54:34.479 --> 00:54:35.199
a bad place to
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:35.319
be
00:54:35.319 --> 00:54:36.219
in the marketplace.
00:54:36.369 --> 00:54:36.489
I
00:54:36.489 --> 00:54:36.789
think a
00:54:36.789 --> 00:54:37.059
lot of
00:54:37.059 --> 00:54:37.329
people
00:54:37.329 --> 00:54:37.479
would
00:54:37.479 --> 00:54:37.809
choose
00:54:37.809 --> 00:54:38.109
that,
00:54:38.499 --> 00:54:38.979
but
00:54:39.609 --> 00:54:42.459
like many, like many charters
00:54:42.489 --> 00:54:42.849
or,
00:54:42.909 --> 00:54:43.029
you
00:54:43.029 --> 00:54:43.179
know,
00:54:43.179 --> 00:54:43.359
they
00:54:43.359 --> 00:54:43.749
start
00:54:43.749 --> 00:54:44.169
out
00:54:44.319 --> 00:54:44.859
in a certain
00:54:44.859 --> 00:54:45.189
way
00:54:45.219 --> 00:54:45.399
and
00:54:45.399 --> 00:54:45.579
then
00:54:45.609 --> 00:54:45.879
they
00:54:45.909 --> 00:54:46.599
devolve.
00:54:47.169 --> 00:54:47.649
So
00:54:47.649 --> 00:54:47.739
I
00:54:47.739 --> 00:54:47.949
think
00:54:47.949 --> 00:54:48.039
we
00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:48.249
have to
00:54:48.249 --> 00:54:48.369
be
00:54:48.369 --> 00:54:49.209
very careful
00:54:49.269 --> 00:54:49.899
about,
00:54:49.959 --> 00:54:53.319
uh, about maintaining that, that instructional vision
00:54:53.499 --> 00:54:53.739
so
00:54:53.739 --> 00:54:54.039
that
00:54:54.189 --> 00:54:54.519
people
00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:57.489
have an expectation of, you know, you come to here in this school
00:54:57.489 --> 00:54:58.089
district, this
00:54:58.089 --> 00:54:58.209
is,
00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:58.419
this
00:54:58.419 --> 00:54:58.689
is what
00:54:58.689 --> 00:54:59.319
you're gonna get.
00:54:59.709 --> 00:54:59.979
And,
00:54:59.979 --> 00:55:00.099
you
00:55:00.099 --> 00:55:00.219
know,
00:55:00.219 --> 00:55:00.339
and
00:55:00.339 --> 00:55:00.549
it's
00:55:00.549 --> 00:55:00.879
okay.
00:55:00.879 --> 00:55:01.479
You know, if you
00:55:01.479 --> 00:55:01.689
want
00:55:01.689 --> 00:55:01.839
your
00:55:01.839 --> 00:55:02.109
kids
00:55:02.109 --> 00:55:02.229
to
00:55:02.229 --> 00:55:02.499
be on
00:55:02.499 --> 00:55:02.919
screens
00:55:02.919 --> 00:55:03.069
eight
00:55:03.069 --> 00:55:03.699
hours a day,
00:55:03.789 --> 00:55:05.739
you know, then it's, this place isn't,
00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:06.609
isn't for you.
00:55:06.999 --> 00:55:09.219
But, but I think, you know, because of,
00:55:09.309 --> 00:55:09.459
of
00:55:09.459 --> 00:55:09.729
how
00:55:09.729 --> 00:55:10.209
effective
00:55:10.209 --> 00:55:10.359
we
00:55:10.359 --> 00:55:11.469
know we can be
00:55:11.499 --> 00:55:13.269
with the, with the technology
00:55:13.269 --> 00:55:13.419
to
00:55:13.419 --> 00:55:14.139
augment
00:55:14.649 --> 00:55:15.129
quality
00:55:15.129 --> 00:55:18.454
instruction, I, I think, I think we can create some good product.
00:55:19.504 --> 00:55:19.714
Frank: I
00:55:19.714 --> 00:55:20.044
think,
00:55:20.044 --> 00:55:20.404
um,
00:55:20.764 --> 00:55:21.004
the
00:55:21.004 --> 00:55:21.784
book is really
00:55:21.784 --> 00:55:22.534
augmented,
00:55:22.594 --> 00:55:23.074
um,
00:55:23.104 --> 00:55:23.584
by
00:55:23.614 --> 00:55:24.004
teacher
00:55:24.004 --> 00:55:24.544
interviews
00:55:24.574 --> 00:55:24.724
that
00:55:24.724 --> 00:55:24.844
we
00:55:24.844 --> 00:55:24.854
did.
00:55:24.854 --> 00:55:25.264
We probably
00:55:25.264 --> 00:55:25.414
did
00:55:25.414 --> 00:55:25.684
like three
00:55:25.714 --> 00:55:26.014
dozen
00:55:26.014 --> 00:55:28.504
teacher interviews, uh, k
00:55:28.504 --> 00:55:28.774
through
00:55:28.774 --> 00:55:30.274
college across the
00:55:30.274 --> 00:55:31.054
country,
00:55:31.354 --> 00:55:31.834
small
00:55:31.834 --> 00:55:32.584
districts,
00:55:32.704 --> 00:55:33.154
huge
00:55:33.154 --> 00:55:33.904
districts,
00:55:33.964 --> 00:55:34.264
uh,
00:55:34.264 --> 00:55:35.194
suburban districts,
00:55:35.224 --> 00:55:36.634
urban districts, rural
00:55:36.634 --> 00:55:37.174
districts.
00:55:37.452 --> 00:55:37.662
one
00:55:37.662 --> 00:55:37.722
of
00:55:37.722 --> 00:55:37.932
the things
00:55:37.932 --> 00:55:38.052
we
00:55:38.052 --> 00:55:38.502
noticed
00:55:38.502 --> 00:55:39.042
is that
00:55:39.537 --> 00:55:39.627
a
00:55:39.627 --> 00:55:39.897
lot
00:55:39.897 --> 00:55:39.957
of
00:55:39.957 --> 00:55:40.347
teachers
00:55:40.347 --> 00:55:40.737
talked
00:55:40.737 --> 00:55:41.097
about
00:55:41.397 --> 00:55:42.177
parents starting
00:55:42.177 --> 00:55:43.107
to push back
00:55:44.127 --> 00:55:46.492
On the amount of screen And
00:55:47.127 --> 00:55:47.337
in
00:55:47.337 --> 00:55:47.847
some.
00:55:47.907 --> 00:55:48.627
Districts
00:55:48.627 --> 00:55:48.807
where
00:55:48.807 --> 00:55:48.927
the
00:55:48.927 --> 00:55:49.317
te the
00:55:49.347 --> 00:55:49.617
teachers
00:55:49.617 --> 00:55:49.737
we
00:55:49.737 --> 00:55:50.157
interviewed
00:55:50.157 --> 00:55:50.307
for
00:55:50.307 --> 00:55:52.017
one particular subset of questions,
00:55:52.737 --> 00:55:52.887
we
00:55:52.887 --> 00:55:53.097
needed
00:55:53.097 --> 00:55:53.217
them
00:55:53.217 --> 00:55:54.117
to have been in
00:55:54.117 --> 00:55:54.207
the
00:55:54.207 --> 00:55:55.317
classroom teaching the
00:55:55.317 --> 00:55:55.617
same
00:55:55.617 --> 00:55:56.067
grade
00:55:56.937 --> 00:55:57.807
or close
00:55:58.077 --> 00:55:58.287
in
00:55:58.287 --> 00:55:58.767
a similar
00:55:58.767 --> 00:55:59.937
socioeconomic level,
00:56:00.297 --> 00:56:00.664
20
00:56:00.664 --> 00:56:01.032
14,
00:56:01.032 --> 00:56:01.399
20
00:56:01.399 --> 00:56:02.337
24. 'cause we
00:56:02.337 --> 00:56:02.427
were
00:56:02.427 --> 00:56:02.697
asking
00:56:02.697 --> 00:56:04.567
questions like comparing, comparing,
00:56:04.567 --> 00:56:04.777
you know,
00:56:04.777 --> 00:56:07.207
student, behaviors
00:56:07.207 --> 00:56:07.597
and such.
00:56:08.167 --> 00:56:08.347
and
00:56:08.347 --> 00:56:08.677
what
00:56:08.677 --> 00:56:09.097
we
00:56:09.127 --> 00:56:09.367
heard
00:56:09.367 --> 00:56:09.967
from them is
00:56:09.967 --> 00:56:10.327
that
00:56:10.927 --> 00:56:11.077
the
00:56:11.077 --> 00:56:11.407
same
00:56:11.407 --> 00:56:12.217
parents who in
00:56:12.217 --> 00:56:13.297
2014
00:56:13.957 --> 00:56:14.197
for
00:56:14.197 --> 00:56:14.827
their older
00:56:14.827 --> 00:56:15.217
kids
00:56:15.217 --> 00:56:15.337
were
00:56:15.337 --> 00:56:16.147
advocating, you
00:56:16.147 --> 00:56:16.627
know, more
00:56:16.627 --> 00:56:16.717
and
00:56:16.717 --> 00:56:16.957
more
00:56:16.957 --> 00:56:17.077
and
00:56:17.077 --> 00:56:17.527
more,
00:56:17.737 --> 00:56:18.337
you gotta catch
00:56:18.337 --> 00:56:18.547
up.
00:56:18.547 --> 00:56:18.997
We gotta catch
00:56:19.027 --> 00:56:19.297
up
00:56:19.927 --> 00:56:20.227
by
00:56:20.227 --> 00:56:21.277
2024.
00:56:21.307 --> 00:56:21.877
We're saying
00:56:21.877 --> 00:56:22.027
for
00:56:22.027 --> 00:56:22.507
their younger
00:56:22.507 --> 00:56:22.867
kids,
00:56:23.197 --> 00:56:23.317
let's
00:56:23.317 --> 00:56:23.617
get them
00:56:23.617 --> 00:56:23.857
off
00:56:24.067 --> 00:56:24.457
too much
00:56:24.457 --> 00:56:24.937
screen time.
00:56:25.507 --> 00:56:25.987
Um,
00:56:26.197 --> 00:56:26.347
the
00:56:26.347 --> 00:56:26.557
same
00:56:26.557 --> 00:56:27.097
parents.
00:56:27.457 --> 00:56:27.967
And so
00:56:27.967 --> 00:56:28.597
I think
00:56:28.837 --> 00:56:29.467
that
00:56:30.247 --> 00:56:30.577
there's
00:56:30.577 --> 00:56:31.687
a groundswell
00:56:32.437 --> 00:56:32.617
and
00:56:32.617 --> 00:56:32.947
it isn't
00:56:32.947 --> 00:56:33.607
just the books,
00:56:33.607 --> 00:56:33.877
it isn't
00:56:33.877 --> 00:56:34.057
just
00:56:34.057 --> 00:56:34.327
digital
00:56:34.327 --> 00:56:34.747
delusions.
00:56:34.747 --> 00:56:35.197
It isn't just
00:56:35.197 --> 00:56:35.587
ours.
00:56:35.587 --> 00:56:35.647
It
00:56:35.647 --> 00:56:35.857
isn't
00:56:35.857 --> 00:56:36.037
just
00:56:36.037 --> 00:56:36.127
the
00:56:36.127 --> 00:56:36.517
articles
00:56:36.517 --> 00:56:38.917
in the, in education next and in in New York Times,
00:56:39.367 --> 00:56:39.727
I think
00:56:39.727 --> 00:56:39.877
that
00:56:40.267 --> 00:56:40.687
parents
00:56:40.687 --> 00:56:40.837
are
00:56:40.837 --> 00:56:41.347
seeing
00:56:41.347 --> 00:56:41.587
it.
00:56:41.617 --> 00:56:41.947
Um,
00:56:42.307 --> 00:56:42.457
we
00:56:42.457 --> 00:56:42.547
were
00:56:42.547 --> 00:56:44.347
doing some research just for promotional
00:56:44.347 --> 00:56:44.917
purposes.
00:56:45.247 --> 00:56:45.427
We
00:56:45.427 --> 00:56:45.727
found a
00:56:45.727 --> 00:56:46.327
00:56:46.327 --> 00:56:46.807
group.
00:56:47.287 --> 00:56:47.707
that's
00:56:47.707 --> 00:56:47.917
like
00:56:47.917 --> 00:56:48.787
reduced my kids'
00:56:48.787 --> 00:56:49.147
screen
00:56:49.147 --> 00:56:49.597
time,
00:56:49.957 --> 00:56:50.347
something
00:56:50.347 --> 00:56:50.557
like
00:56:50.557 --> 00:56:50.857
that.
00:56:51.307 --> 00:56:52.327
280,000
00:56:52.327 --> 00:56:52.677
members
00:56:53.527 --> 00:56:54.607
of parent members in the
00:56:54.607 --> 00:56:55.147
us.
00:56:55.147 --> 00:56:55.447
I mean, That's
00:56:55.447 --> 00:56:55.507
a
00:56:55.507 --> 00:56:56.767
pretty big group.
00:56:56.917 --> 00:56:57.187
There's
00:56:57.187 --> 00:56:57.427
a,
00:56:57.907 --> 00:56:58.117
there's
00:56:58.117 --> 00:56:58.177
a
00:56:58.177 --> 00:56:58.777
groundswell
00:56:58.777 --> 00:56:59.017
for
00:56:59.017 --> 00:56:59.107
it.
00:56:59.107 --> 00:56:59.317
So I
00:56:59.317 --> 00:56:59.947
think that,
00:56:59.977 --> 00:57:00.377
um,
00:57:01.747 --> 00:57:01.987
like
00:57:01.987 --> 00:57:02.467
Jean said,
00:57:02.467 --> 00:57:02.677
if
00:57:02.677 --> 00:57:03.337
you want
00:57:03.367 --> 00:57:03.577
your
00:57:03.577 --> 00:57:03.967
child
00:57:03.967 --> 00:57:04.087
to
00:57:04.087 --> 00:57:05.407
have that, you're gonna definitely
00:57:05.407 --> 00:57:05.677
have
00:57:05.677 --> 00:57:06.577
the option if you
00:57:06.577 --> 00:57:07.087
want it to be
00:57:07.087 --> 00:57:07.237
on
00:57:07.237 --> 00:57:08.587
a screen for six, eight hours a
00:57:09.227 --> 00:57:09.617
parents
00:57:09.617 --> 00:57:09.857
didn't
00:57:09.857 --> 00:57:10.877
choose this.
00:57:11.297 --> 00:57:11.957
They didn't choose what
00:57:11.957 --> 00:57:12.797
we're seeing right now.
00:57:13.187 --> 00:57:14.447
And that's what we need to walk back,
00:57:15.017 --> 00:57:15.467
is
00:57:15.472 --> 00:57:15.492
that
00:57:15.492 --> 00:57:16.847
if they want that choice, they can
00:57:16.847 --> 00:57:17.117
have
00:57:17.117 --> 00:57:17.267
it.
00:57:17.927 --> 00:57:19.337
But this isn't what we should be doing
00:57:19.337 --> 00:57:20.017
in the mainstream public
00:57:21.212 --> 00:57:21.557
Gene Tavernetti: And I, and I
00:57:21.562 --> 00:57:22.772
think the big
00:57:23.312 --> 00:57:24.062
a big takeaway
00:57:24.062 --> 00:57:25.532
is nobody made this choice.
00:57:26.042 --> 00:57:26.702
It just happened.
00:57:26.759 --> 00:57:27.287
Bart: just happened.
00:57:27.827 --> 00:57:28.007
Yeah.
00:57:28.967 --> 00:57:31.037
I've really appreciated this conversation.
00:57:31.357 --> 00:57:34.297
In closing, I'd like to ask you what gives you hope?
00:57:35.005 --> 00:57:35.575
Gene Tavernetti: you know, there
00:57:35.575 --> 00:57:37.444
is A reaction.
00:57:37.444 --> 00:57:37.984
Unfortunately,
00:57:37.984 --> 00:57:40.399
it's another pendulum swing, from all
00:57:40.399 --> 00:57:40.489
of
00:57:40.489 --> 00:57:41.209
these screens to
00:57:41.209 --> 00:57:41.779
no screen
00:57:41.779 --> 00:57:42.109
time.
00:57:42.469 --> 00:57:42.889
That's
00:57:42.889 --> 00:57:43.219
not,
00:57:43.279 --> 00:57:43.549
that's
00:57:43.549 --> 00:57:43.759
not
00:57:43.759 --> 00:57:44.359
sustainable,
00:57:44.359 --> 00:57:45.319
That's not reality.
00:57:45.319 --> 00:57:47.389
That is not where we're going.
00:57:47.871 --> 00:57:49.101
so I, I, I think
00:57:49.101 --> 00:57:49.191
the
00:57:49.191 --> 00:57:51.231
fact that there are 280,000,
00:57:51.231 --> 00:57:52.491
I think that there are people,
00:57:52.491 --> 00:57:52.611
you
00:57:52.611 --> 00:57:54.261
know, stepping, stepping forward.
00:57:54.741 --> 00:57:55.551
Uh, that
00:57:55.551 --> 00:57:55.791
gives
00:57:55.791 --> 00:57:56.391
me hope.
00:57:56.644 --> 00:57:57.871
what diminishes
00:57:57.871 --> 00:57:58.201
that,
00:57:58.411 --> 00:57:59.491
that hopefulness
00:57:59.491 --> 00:57:59.611
a
00:57:59.611 --> 00:57:59.881
little
00:57:59.881 --> 00:58:00.181
bit
00:58:00.241 --> 00:58:00.451
is
00:58:00.451 --> 00:58:00.661
that
00:58:00.661 --> 00:58:00.811
it's
00:58:00.811 --> 00:58:01.921
always an overreaction.
00:58:02.627 --> 00:58:02.987
you
00:58:02.987 --> 00:58:03.227
know,
00:58:03.257 --> 00:58:03.527
we,
00:58:03.527 --> 00:58:04.277
we can see that
00:58:04.277 --> 00:58:04.607
in,
00:58:04.607 --> 00:58:04.817
in
00:58:04.817 --> 00:58:06.437
many of the things that are going on,
00:58:06.737 --> 00:58:08.417
like in schools of choice right
00:58:08.417 --> 00:58:08.747
now,
00:58:08.837 --> 00:58:12.497
where in states where they could take their kids someplace else.
00:58:12.767 --> 00:58:13.277
The question
00:58:13.277 --> 00:58:13.427
is,
00:58:13.427 --> 00:58:13.577
what
00:58:13.577 --> 00:58:14.027
happens?
00:58:14.057 --> 00:58:14.897
What happens to the
00:58:14.897 --> 00:58:15.227
students
00:58:15.227 --> 00:58:16.247
that, that, have
00:58:16.247 --> 00:58:16.607
special
00:58:16.607 --> 00:58:17.027
needs?
00:58:17.567 --> 00:58:17.747
They
00:58:17.747 --> 00:58:18.377
don't worry about
00:58:18.377 --> 00:58:18.587
them,
00:58:18.947 --> 00:58:19.067
you
00:58:19.067 --> 00:58:19.277
know,
00:58:19.397 --> 00:58:19.577
but
00:58:19.577 --> 00:58:21.137
that's something that, again,
00:58:21.137 --> 00:58:21.317
this
00:58:21.317 --> 00:58:21.407
is
00:58:21.407 --> 00:58:21.647
going
00:58:21.647 --> 00:58:23.207
back to institutional memory.
00:58:23.357 --> 00:58:24.347
This isn't new.
00:58:24.797 --> 00:58:24.947
You
00:58:24.947 --> 00:58:25.097
know,
00:58:25.097 --> 00:58:26.267
we have these,
00:58:26.327 --> 00:58:26.597
these
00:58:26.597 --> 00:58:26.897
things
00:58:26.897 --> 00:58:27.017
in
00:58:27.017 --> 00:58:27.527
place
00:58:27.557 --> 00:58:28.067
because of
00:58:28.067 --> 00:58:28.787
who we
00:58:28.877 --> 00:58:29.207
were
00:58:29.207 --> 00:58:29.807
before
00:58:30.017 --> 00:58:30.287
and we
00:58:30.287 --> 00:58:30.407
need,
00:58:30.407 --> 00:58:30.947
and we needed
00:58:30.947 --> 00:58:31.637
to get better.
00:58:32.147 --> 00:58:32.687
So,
00:58:32.778 --> 00:58:33.048
what
00:58:33.048 --> 00:58:33.468
gives me
00:58:33.468 --> 00:58:33.828
hope?
00:58:34.818 --> 00:58:35.238
More
00:58:35.238 --> 00:58:35.628
people
00:58:35.628 --> 00:58:36.648
thinking about,
00:58:36.708 --> 00:58:37.188
um,
00:58:37.818 --> 00:58:37.938
you
00:58:37.938 --> 00:58:38.058
know,
00:58:38.058 --> 00:58:38.748
there's a better way
00:58:38.748 --> 00:58:38.868
to
00:58:38.868 --> 00:58:39.048
do
00:58:39.048 --> 00:58:39.708
education
00:58:40.470 --> 00:58:40.560
Frank: I
00:58:40.560 --> 00:58:40.770
think
00:58:40.770 --> 00:58:40.980
Jean
00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:41.100
might
00:58:41.100 --> 00:58:41.160
be
00:58:41.160 --> 00:58:41.340
more
00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:41.730
hopeful
00:58:41.730 --> 00:58:41.910
than
00:58:41.910 --> 00:58:42.090
me,
00:58:42.090 --> 00:58:42.360
but,
00:58:42.390 --> 00:58:42.870
um,
00:58:43.305 --> 00:58:43.905
talking about
00:58:43.905 --> 00:58:43.965
the
00:58:43.965 --> 00:58:44.445
institutional
00:58:44.445 --> 00:58:44.835
memory,
00:58:44.835 --> 00:58:44.895
you
00:58:44.895 --> 00:58:45.645
know, there, if
00:58:45.645 --> 00:58:46.365
you go back,
00:58:47.115 --> 00:58:47.355
at
00:58:47.355 --> 00:58:47.775
least as
00:58:47.775 --> 00:58:48.015
far
00:58:48.015 --> 00:58:48.225
back
00:58:48.225 --> 00:58:48.345
as
00:58:48.345 --> 00:58:48.675
Madeline
00:58:48.675 --> 00:58:49.815
Hunter in the sixties and
00:58:49.815 --> 00:58:51.375
seventies, uh,
00:58:51.375 --> 00:58:51.525
the
00:58:51.525 --> 00:58:51.975
Effective
00:58:51.975 --> 00:58:53.055
Schools movement,
00:58:53.085 --> 00:58:54.375
uh, Ronald Edmonds,
00:58:55.035 --> 00:58:56.325
uh, Marzano
00:58:57.295 --> 00:58:57.915
the nineties and
00:58:57.915 --> 00:58:58.035
two
00:58:58.035 --> 00:58:58.785
thousands,
00:58:58.785 --> 00:59:00.195
the, and now his
00:59:00.255 --> 00:59:00.855
evaluation
00:59:00.855 --> 00:59:01.245
center,
00:59:01.785 --> 00:59:02.475
the
00:59:02.775 --> 00:59:03.315
19 90,
00:59:03.315 --> 00:59:03.585
90,
00:59:03.585 --> 00:59:04.165
schools,
00:59:05.088 --> 00:59:05.715
the
00:59:06.075 --> 00:59:06.735
the New Teacher
00:59:06.735 --> 00:59:07.365
Project
00:59:07.425 --> 00:59:07.635
Teach
00:59:07.635 --> 00:59:07.755
for
00:59:07.755 --> 00:59:08.175
America,
00:59:08.175 --> 00:59:08.265
which
00:59:08.265 --> 00:59:10.257
is how I started How
00:59:10.257 --> 00:59:10.287
I
00:59:10.287 --> 00:59:11.097
got into teaching.
00:59:11.483 --> 00:59:11.813
we,
00:59:11.843 --> 00:59:12.083
we
00:59:12.083 --> 00:59:12.443
know
00:59:12.443 --> 00:59:12.593
that
00:59:12.593 --> 00:59:13.793
there's an alternative path
00:59:13.793 --> 00:59:14.243
that is actually
00:59:14.243 --> 00:59:14.813
a very
00:59:15.113 --> 00:59:15.683
good,
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:17.180
Path and, and, and
00:59:17.180 --> 00:59:17.300
we
00:59:17.300 --> 00:59:17.480
know
00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:17.960
how,
00:59:18.650 --> 00:59:18.890
what
00:59:18.890 --> 00:59:19.580
we should be doing in
00:59:20.630 --> 00:59:20.840
The
00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:21.320
question
00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:21.440
that
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:21.680
Ronald
00:59:21.860 --> 00:59:23.780
Mond's, uh, the effect of schools movement task is
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:24.020
how
00:59:24.020 --> 00:59:24.080
do
00:59:24.080 --> 00:59:24.350
we feel
00:59:24.350 --> 00:59:26.481
about the fact that we haven't so
00:59:26.481 --> 00:59:27.021
that's the
00:59:27.021 --> 00:59:27.411
hope.
00:59:27.441 --> 00:59:27.801
The hope
00:59:27.801 --> 00:59:27.921
is
00:59:27.921 --> 00:59:28.161
that
00:59:28.371 --> 00:59:28.701
we
00:59:28.701 --> 00:59:28.941
know
00:59:28.941 --> 00:59:29.751
what we've gotta do.
00:59:30.621 --> 00:59:30.951
My
00:59:30.951 --> 00:59:31.941
concern
00:59:32.381 --> 00:59:32.951
is,
00:59:32.951 --> 00:59:33.251
and this is
00:59:33.251 --> 00:59:33.431
part
00:59:33.431 --> 00:59:33.491
of
00:59:33.491 --> 00:59:33.581
our
00:59:33.581 --> 00:59:33.881
parent
00:59:33.881 --> 00:59:34.361
education
00:59:34.361 --> 00:59:34.601
series,
00:59:34.631 --> 00:59:34.721
' cause
00:59:34.721 --> 00:59:34.871
we
00:59:34.871 --> 00:59:35.021
also
00:59:35.021 --> 00:59:35.411
do parent
00:59:35.411 --> 00:59:35.891
education,
00:59:35.891 --> 00:59:36.041
which
00:59:36.041 --> 00:59:36.851
is actually another piece
00:59:36.851 --> 00:59:36.971
of
00:59:36.971 --> 00:59:37.661
it that I think
00:59:37.721 --> 00:59:38.321
is something we
00:59:38.321 --> 00:59:41.111
do that nobody else we're also working with
00:59:41.111 --> 00:59:41.171
the
00:59:41.171 --> 00:59:41.591
parents,
00:59:42.011 --> 00:59:42.491
is
00:59:42.491 --> 00:59:43.121
that
00:59:44.291 --> 00:59:44.531
I'm
00:59:44.531 --> 00:59:44.621
not
00:59:44.621 --> 00:59:44.801
gonna
00:59:44.801 --> 00:59:45.341
name any.
00:59:45.956 --> 00:59:46.376
companies.
00:59:46.376 --> 00:59:46.436
I
00:59:46.436 --> 00:59:46.526
don't
00:59:46.526 --> 00:59:46.826
wanna get su
00:59:46.856 --> 00:59:46.976
we
00:59:46.976 --> 00:59:47.366
don't want, we
00:59:47.366 --> 00:59:47.456
don't
00:59:47.511 --> 00:59:47.671
want to
00:59:47.676 --> 00:59:47.786
get
00:59:47.786 --> 00:59:48.116
sued.
00:59:48.596 --> 00:59:48.866
But,
00:59:48.866 --> 00:59:48.986
you
00:59:48.986 --> 00:59:49.316
know,
00:59:49.556 --> 00:59:49.856
in,
00:59:49.856 --> 00:59:50.036
uh,
00:59:50.036 --> 00:59:51.266
in the prologue of
00:59:51.266 --> 00:59:51.926
the book where the
00:59:51.926 --> 00:59:52.646
superintendent is
00:59:52.646 --> 00:59:53.516
really pitching, we're
00:59:53.516 --> 00:59:53.666
gonna
00:59:53.666 --> 00:59:54.536
go after this money
00:59:54.986 --> 00:59:55.136
and
00:59:55.136 --> 00:59:55.256
we
00:59:55.256 --> 00:59:55.406
need
00:59:55.406 --> 00:59:55.496
to
00:59:55.496 --> 00:59:55.646
get
00:59:55.646 --> 00:59:55.706
a
00:59:55.706 --> 00:59:55.946
screen
00:59:55.946 --> 00:59:56.246
in front of
00:59:56.246 --> 00:59:56.726
every kid.
00:59:56.726 --> 00:59:57.536
He talks about,
00:59:57.680 --> 00:59:58.250
getting
00:59:58.250 --> 00:59:58.790
a particular
00:59:58.790 --> 00:59:59.060
type
00:59:59.060 --> 00:59:59.270
of
00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:00.110
laptop
01:00:00.110 --> 01:00:02.420
into every child's hand because
01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:02.930
the
01:00:03.050 --> 01:00:03.410
digital
01:00:03.410 --> 01:00:04.700
companies are being great social
01:00:04.700 --> 01:00:05.360
citizens.
01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:05.960
They're
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:07.340
helping the kids get
01:00:07.340 --> 01:00:07.820
access
01:00:07.820 --> 01:00:08.030
to the
01:00:08.030 --> 01:00:08.570
screens.
01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:09.110
They're
01:00:09.110 --> 01:00:09.470
helping
01:00:09.470 --> 01:00:09.920
write
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.160
the,
01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:10.670
the common
01:00:10.670 --> 01:00:11.150
core
01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:12.680
assessments, you know, smarter balance in
01:00:12.680 --> 01:00:13.070
the park.
01:00:13.388 --> 01:00:13.778
and
01:00:13.778 --> 01:00:14.138
later
01:00:14.138 --> 01:00:14.258
on
01:00:14.258 --> 01:00:14.378
we
01:00:14.378 --> 01:00:14.618
found
01:00:14.618 --> 01:00:14.918
out
01:00:15.368 --> 01:00:15.518
that
01:00:15.518 --> 01:00:15.728
some of
01:00:15.728 --> 01:00:15.878
those
01:00:15.878 --> 01:00:16.028
same
01:00:16.028 --> 01:00:16.718
companies
01:00:16.898 --> 01:00:17.078
were
01:00:17.078 --> 01:00:18.248
data mining those
01:00:18.248 --> 01:00:18.848
kids
01:00:19.478 --> 01:00:19.688
as
01:00:19.688 --> 01:00:20.648
young as four years
01:00:20.648 --> 01:00:21.068
old.
01:00:21.728 --> 01:00:22.358
So
01:00:22.358 --> 01:00:22.748
I, what
01:00:22.748 --> 01:00:22.988
gives
01:00:22.988 --> 01:00:23.138
me
01:00:23.138 --> 01:00:25.118
pause is that,
01:00:25.658 --> 01:00:26.138
that
01:00:26.678 --> 01:00:26.948
there's
01:00:26.948 --> 01:00:27.368
a villain
01:00:27.368 --> 01:00:27.488
on
01:00:27.488 --> 01:00:27.578
the
01:00:27.578 --> 01:00:27.758
other
01:00:28.568 --> 01:00:28.688
You
01:00:28.688 --> 01:00:28.808
know,
01:00:28.808 --> 01:00:28.868
it
01:00:28.868 --> 01:00:29.198
wasn't
01:00:29.198 --> 01:00:29.258
a
01:00:29.258 --> 01:00:29.678
conscious
01:00:29.678 --> 01:00:29.978
choice
01:00:29.978 --> 01:00:30.128
by
01:00:30.128 --> 01:00:31.868
schools to go down this path.
01:00:32.678 --> 01:00:33.038
It was
01:00:33.038 --> 01:00:33.128
this
01:00:33.128 --> 01:00:33.608
broader
01:00:33.608 --> 01:00:34.658
digital immersion,
01:00:35.048 --> 01:00:35.288
but
01:00:35.288 --> 01:00:35.708
there was
01:00:35.708 --> 01:00:35.768
a
01:00:35.768 --> 01:00:36.248
conscious
01:00:36.248 --> 01:00:36.548
choice.
01:00:36.548 --> 01:00:37.028
So folks
01:00:37.028 --> 01:00:37.148
who
01:00:37.148 --> 01:00:37.418
are
01:00:37.448 --> 01:00:37.838
data
01:00:37.868 --> 01:00:38.198
mining,
01:00:38.198 --> 01:00:38.528
four
01:00:38.528 --> 01:00:39.218
year olds,
01:00:39.218 --> 01:00:39.698
five year
01:00:39.698 --> 01:00:40.028
olds.
01:00:40.433 --> 01:00:40.883
They
01:00:41.243 --> 01:00:41.393
who
01:00:41.393 --> 01:00:42.083
were giving
01:00:42.473 --> 01:00:42.893
free
01:00:42.893 --> 01:00:43.343
01:00:43.343 --> 01:00:43.733
access,
01:00:43.733 --> 01:00:43.913
let's
01:00:43.913 --> 01:00:44.303
say.
01:00:44.483 --> 01:00:44.693
But
01:00:44.693 --> 01:00:45.533
then data mining
01:00:45.533 --> 01:00:45.683
what
01:00:45.683 --> 01:00:45.773
the
01:00:45.773 --> 01:00:46.043
kids
01:00:46.043 --> 01:00:46.163
were
01:00:46.163 --> 01:00:46.643
writing so
01:00:46.643 --> 01:00:46.763
that
01:00:46.763 --> 01:00:46.853
they
01:00:46.853 --> 01:00:47.723
can market to them a
01:00:47.723 --> 01:00:48.053
few years
01:00:48.053 --> 01:00:48.503
later.
01:00:49.163 --> 01:00:49.373
There
01:00:49.373 --> 01:00:50.033
definitely is a
01:00:50.033 --> 01:00:52.838
villain in this, And that's what gives me but
01:00:53.378 --> 01:00:54.248
hopefully this
01:00:54.248 --> 01:00:57.458
groundswell, you know, the senate hearings that we're seeing now,
01:00:57.758 --> 01:00:57.968
there's
01:00:57.968 --> 01:00:58.178
gonna
01:00:58.178 --> 01:00:58.958
be enough of a.
01:00:59.765 --> 01:01:00.335
not a not a
01:01:00.335 --> 01:01:00.995
revolt, but,
01:01:01.325 --> 01:01:01.625
but
01:01:01.625 --> 01:01:02.255
a pushback.
01:01:02.705 --> 01:01:04.775
And I do hope that to Jean's
01:01:04.775 --> 01:01:05.135
point
01:01:05.405 --> 01:01:06.815
that we just don't go so far the
01:01:06.815 --> 01:01:08.465
other way that then we
01:01:08.465 --> 01:01:08.645
then
01:01:08.645 --> 01:01:09.215
lose,
01:01:09.275 --> 01:01:09.395
you
01:01:09.395 --> 01:01:09.575
know,
01:01:09.815 --> 01:01:09.965
it
01:01:09.965 --> 01:01:10.385
just becomes
01:01:10.385 --> 01:01:11.020
that pendulum again.
01:01:11.544 --> 01:01:11.694
Gene Tavernetti: I
01:01:11.694 --> 01:01:11.934
think
01:01:11.934 --> 01:01:12.564
just the
01:01:12.654 --> 01:01:12.834
of
01:01:12.834 --> 01:01:13.194
who we
01:01:13.194 --> 01:01:13.644
are
01:01:14.004 --> 01:01:14.634
in the United
01:01:14.634 --> 01:01:15.054
States,
01:01:15.384 --> 01:01:15.534
you
01:01:15.534 --> 01:01:15.954
can't tell
01:01:15.954 --> 01:01:16.074
me
01:01:16.074 --> 01:01:16.464
what to do.
01:01:17.124 --> 01:01:17.724
And then you
01:01:17.724 --> 01:01:18.174
have,
01:01:18.264 --> 01:01:19.344
uh, you know,
01:01:19.344 --> 01:01:19.674
I don't know
01:01:19.674 --> 01:01:22.494
how many school districts you worked in a, in a small school
01:01:22.494 --> 01:01:23.004
district
01:01:23.004 --> 01:01:23.784
For a while
01:01:23.844 --> 01:01:24.144
and
01:01:24.144 --> 01:01:24.234
they
01:01:24.234 --> 01:01:24.414
had
01:01:24.414 --> 01:01:24.474
a
01:01:24.474 --> 01:01:24.774
school
01:01:24.774 --> 01:01:25.254
board
01:01:25.434 --> 01:01:25.644
and
01:01:25.644 --> 01:01:26.154
they didn't
01:01:26.154 --> 01:01:26.334
want
01:01:26.334 --> 01:01:27.774
anybody telling them what to do.
01:01:28.014 --> 01:01:28.764
And so
01:01:28.794 --> 01:01:29.514
it, it, it's,
01:01:29.574 --> 01:01:29.874
it's
01:01:29.874 --> 01:01:30.504
difficult
01:01:30.714 --> 01:01:30.954
who
01:01:30.954 --> 01:01:31.164
we
01:01:31.164 --> 01:01:31.554
are,
01:01:32.184 --> 01:01:32.484
who
01:01:32.484 --> 01:01:32.664
we
01:01:32.664 --> 01:01:33.174
are
01:01:33.204 --> 01:01:33.444
is
01:01:33.444 --> 01:01:34.044
our strength
01:01:34.074 --> 01:01:34.404
and who
01:01:34.404 --> 01:01:34.584
we
01:01:34.584 --> 01:01:34.854
are
01:01:34.884 --> 01:01:35.184
is,
01:01:35.184 --> 01:01:35.934
uh, makes
01:01:35.964 --> 01:01:36.624
anything
01:01:37.014 --> 01:01:37.674
changing
01:01:37.704 --> 01:01:38.514
education
01:01:38.544 --> 01:01:39.174
difficult.
01:01:40.494 --> 01:01:40.794
Bart: Yes.
01:01:42.174 --> 01:01:43.524
Well, thank you both so much.
01:01:44.274 --> 01:01:44.844
Gene Tavernetti: Thank you.
01:01:45.834 --> 01:01:46.374
Frank: Thank you Bur yeah.
01:01:46.704 --> 01:01:46.974
Gene Tavernetti: yeah.
01:01:48.386 --> 01:01:51.026
If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend.
01:01:51.326 --> 01:01:56.896
Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
01:01:57.586 --> 01:02:07.666
You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky.
01:02:08.076 --> 01:02:08.506
Tesscg.
01:02:09.496 --> 01:02:24.866
com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.
