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Behind the Thread features honest, unscripted conversations with leaders who are willing to go beyond the highlight reel.
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This podcast brings together business leaders, founders, and change makers to discuss leadership, wellness, and life.
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We'll explore the logic behind decisions, the impact leadership has on the body and mind, and the habits that help leaders stay grounded, resilient, and real.
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If you're interested in learning how leaders actually think, live, and lead, this is where the real story unfolds.
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Let's take a peek behind the thread.
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So, welcome to Behind the Thread.
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I am your host, Carrie Habel, and I am also the co-founder and managing partner of Thread Advisory Group, and I'm so excited to have Sandra Scibelli here today.
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Welcome, Sandra.
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Thanks for having me.
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Great to be here.
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Yeah, so nice to have you.
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And you're here in Scottsdale, visiting family, right?
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Visiting family and doing some work.
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Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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So you are truly like an icon in retail.
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I don't know if anybody's told you that before, but you've also been with a lot of iconic brands.
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And so let's go through the list and fill in any blanks that I'm missing.
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So you have been with um brands like Gap, William Sonoma, Ann Taylor, Bath and Body Works, Atleta, Under Armour, and now Untucket.
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That's correct.
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Anyone that I miss?
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No, you got it.
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Yeah, those are some really great brands.
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I definitely feel fortunate.
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I have worked for some really awesome brands.
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Yeah, you have.
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It's been fantastic.
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And we knew each other back at Bath and Body Works.
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We just determined 18 years ago, which is crazy.
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I know.
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And I do remember whether it was your first day or your first week coming to travel with you, and was truly like super impressed with how you were able to just make the team feel great.
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You um, you were such a good coach, very inspirational and super, super curious.
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So, like those are some of the things that stand out to me from you know, from those early days.
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But will you just kind of walk us through your story?
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Because you've got a really great story with a lot of great brands and a lot of different roles.
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So I'd love to hear the story.
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Oh, sure.
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Um well, I graduated from college with a liberal arts degree.
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And so it's like, what do I do?
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What is what do I do with this art history visual arts major?
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Um, and one of the things that I also did while I was all throughout school was I played sports and I was always the captain of the sports team.
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And so I really after I graduated, I thought, well, what can I do?
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And what skills do I have and where are my strengths?
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And leading teams was something I really loved doing and was passionate about.
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And I loved fashion and I had this art background.
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And so I'm like, where can that lead me?
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And so I started to think about like, where could I maybe get into a management training program?
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What would that look like?
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Um, and so literally I answered an ad in the Boston Globe.
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And they had those.
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Yes, and then that nothing was in like order.
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You just had to read them all.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so I ended up going to work at the gap and uh was hired as an assistant manager in training.
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And but it was great.
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I they had a really good training program for uh, you know, new managers at the time.
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And from there, I ended up, I was in Boston.
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I wanted to move to New York.
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And so I left Boston and I moved to New York.
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I went to work for Ann Taylor, which was amazing.
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It was the first time that I really experienced um women in power positions.
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Our CEO at the time was a woman, head of stores was a woman, the regionals were women.
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Uh, and those women really mentored me and helped me grow as a leader and gave me a lot of great opportunities.
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Yeah.
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Uh so always thankful for that time.
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I was a store manager, and then I was a training store manager and a general manager and then a district manager.
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Um, so I really uh was able to really build my my skills there and grow my career.
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Um, and super thankful.
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I was that was Ann Taylor in its heyday uh when women were wearing suits to work and and and such.
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Um now it's tennis shoes.
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Exactly.
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Now I'm in sneakers on.
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I know.
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Putting these on today.
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I was like, what am I doing?
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I'm in tennis shoes every day now.
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I I can't turn back from sneakers at this point.
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Um, but anyways, you know, my good career kind of started there and um spent many years from there at William Sonoma as a district manager and was promoted to regional vice president.
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I ran um the Midwest in Canada for WS and you know, I have a passion for cooking.
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So it was really and and there's like I think I still I got this art theme in there too, and being creative.
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So it was a really nice fit for me.
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You told me too that in your dream is to have a general, like a general store with like gourmet food and things like that.
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Someday, yeah.
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We'll come full circle.
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Yeah.
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Um, but William Snow was great for that, and it was a lot, it was a lot of fun.
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And um I got to work there when Chuck Williams was alive and Howard Lester, who was the CEO and and owner, and just learned so much from their leadership style and their focus on the customer.
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Sure.
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Um, so great experience.
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Um, went back to Ann Taylor briefly.
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Recession happened, ended up um at Bath and Body Works, which I always consider a blessing because um, you know, you mentioned that you traveled with me at the beginning when I first started.
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You're really the first time I had a coach at work.
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You were my coach.
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And I thought that was pretty cool that I was gonna get to work with a coach and get feedback on how I showed up as a leader and how I could be more effective and what was working.
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And um, and so that those memories are like very stand out in my head.
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And uh I would say Bath and Body Works is where I really learned um uh so much about just discipline, execution, accountability, um, performance management, like developing teams, holding teams accountable.
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Um, and then, you know, fast forward, I was there for almost a decade.
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Um, my position was eliminated.
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And that gave me a chance to like pause and say, Yeah, my position was eliminated.
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And so took some time off.
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And and what did I want to, and I really thought about, you know, what did I want to do as I kind of felt like I was going into like the second half of my my retail career.
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And I knew I wanted to stay in retail.
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Um, although I did do a stint, I I interned with a vegan chef to see if did I want to go that fast.
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But I'm very excited not to, but it was a great passion.
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Yeah, it was my passion, and it was really um fun, fun time to do that and um took some cooking classes and and took some time off.
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Um, but health, wellness, fitness is super important to me.
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So um athletic was at the top of my list of like where I wanted to work next.
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And so I was fortunate enough to um join their team and work with them.
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And again, it was um, I love the idea of empowering women and helping them uh reach their potential.
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And we used to say their limitless potential.
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Right.
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Um, and then the opportunity at at Under Armour came about and uh just resonated with me.
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So huge sports brands, um, the team atmosphere there and the um competitive nature.
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So I was there for four years during the pandemic and um really enjoyed my time there, and then had the opportunity to um become ahead of retail, and that was certainly a career goal for that I had for myself.
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So joined Untucket three years ago.
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It's it's been a it's been a ride.
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Um it's been really a great opportunity to to lead a team.
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I have store operations and visual merchandising that reports to me as well as the field.
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So I didn't know that.
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Yeah, so it's been really nice.
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Yeah.
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So um I think it's it's sort of rounded out my my skill set uh because I hadn't had those experiences before.
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Right.
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And so you're the US retail head of head of US retail.
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US retail.
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Okay, perfect.
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Oh, I love that.
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Well, congratulations.
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You've had a lot of really great success and um a lot of like really fantastic brands that you've learned from.
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So when you think about all of those brands, is there one brand that really was like the turning point for you in your career, or you know, anything about any of the brand's culture that really shaped you as a leader?
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I'm sure there's many, many stories on all of them, but anything stands out.
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You know, I think I took something from every brand.
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You know, there was there was awesome moments and huge wins at all of them.
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I was at Bath and Body Works for almost a decade.
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So that was a big chunk of my retail career.
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So 10 years for me.
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And and it was the biggest team I was ever a part of.
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I think in it at our at our peak, we might have had like 16 regionals or something.
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So um so that was definitely formative as far as just building my skill as a leader.
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Sure.
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Um, I think I've grown a lot since leaving there and been able to be uh um maybe more entrepreneurial and learn other parts of the business.
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Um because there it's so big, everybody has their very specific role.
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Um so working for smaller companies after allowed me to kind of tip my hands into different pieces of the business and learn more.
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So that that's been really exciting too.
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You shared a story.
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We shared a story when we were talking earlier today, um, just around, you know, like there was a we don't have to talk about the brand, but which brand it was that were you kind of sitting in a meeting and you were kind of holding back your opinion.
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Um so um, yeah, after I left um BBW, which was like we were talking about, was a lot of execution and the importance of execution and just figuring it out.
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And um, it might not be the best product, but you just have to figure out how to sell it or what to do.
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And um and when I left and I was what was with another company, I was in a business meeting, we were discussing a product that really wasn't selling.
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And I didn't come forward with like my perspective on it because in my past, roll it clarity, like that was not something that you did.
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And my my new boss, we talked after, and I was explaining to her, I was like, this product isn't selling because of you know these reasons.
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I just like, why didn't you say that?
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And I was like, oh, because I just need to figure out how to sell it.
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And so we just had this really great moment.
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And she was such a uh an awesome boss and really um encouraged me to share my perspective.
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And that's where I think I really had this tremendous amount of personal growth um as a leader, uh, just more in, I guess, in a in a corporate setting, not just leading a field team, but working cross-functionally across different departments.
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Um, because we didn't really do that at Al Brands so much.
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And so um that was something that was new to me.
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And and it was I I I think very like career shifting for me and very empowering.
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And and from that moment on, I said, you know, wherever I go next or whatever I do, if I can't share my opinion or what I think, then it's probably not the right place for me.
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Right.
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Well, and you're very, you're very assertive and confident and all of those things.
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But it was that culture for us.
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I know at L Brands.
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I mean, I had an opportunity to work in a couple of different departments, so I had some different experiences, but we always talked about role clarity and everybody really needed to stay in their lane.
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And so that, you know, that was a perfect example of like that cultural shift.
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And then when you get into a different, different type of a role where your opinion is valued and you want to be not that it wasn't at Bath and Body Works.
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It's different, but it was just different.
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Yeah, for sure.
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What about um your time now at Untuck at leading store operations?
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How has that shifted?
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Is there anything that comes to mind that like you learned or you know, you had any aha moments or insights just from taking on store ops?
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Um I think it's so the store operations piece, it's so important that that people are that are in that role have been in stores.
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Uh, because your filter has to be how to make it easier for stores and how to simplify and reduce workload and make it easy to understand.
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And so um I felt like I came in with that and and that filter, which was a win.
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Um, but there are also times where you you just get it wrong, right?
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And your communication's off and somebody doesn't understand it, or and it's like, how do you adjust and pivot and learn from it so that you get more clear for the next time?
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Right.
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Um, but our whole everybody, like our whole ops team to small, but it's all stores.
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And and at Unor, we we had that too.
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Like the major stores came from stores?
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Most of the people at in the store operations team at at Ontramor came from my region.
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Uh-huh.
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And then it promoted them with into stores.
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But it made it, it made it better for everybody because we understood what happens in the stores and what the associates are facing every day.
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So um it was sort of a natural next step for me, but I'm glad I had the stores experience before I took on a store operations role because I'm always really sensitive to being on that receiving end of the direction of the communication.
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I know.
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I think that helped me so much too.
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And I, because I came from the field, I was, you know, worked my way up from a beauty advisor behind a nested lauder counter and, you know, as a district manager, multiple field roles.
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And then when I got into the office, that perspective, there wasn't a lot of people.
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This was at Bath and Body Works, there wasn't a ton of people that actually, you know, came from stores.
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So a lot of times they would look to me like in learning and development, like, well, is this gonna work?
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And it was just a different mindset shift, I think, for me, even just coming in with that experience, like to really be able to say, well, I've sat in a seat or I've been in their shoes.
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So this is not gonna work or this is gonna work.
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So I think it's for any of those retailers out there, if you don't have people in store ops that came from stores, you need to.
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You just, yeah, you need to know how the the store teams think.
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Right.
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And uh it's different.
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So I have two uh coworkers right now who are um work in in the in the marketing team, and they've been leaning in and helping support a couple of things operationally, and they were working on a directive and they were asking me a lot of questions, and they're like, I don't need to put all this in.
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I was like, No, you do.
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Right.
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And you have to be really clear, really specific.
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You have to give clear direction, and um that you have to understand the skill set from tenured to new, and how do you create something that everybody can understand and execute on?
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Right, absolutely.
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All right, so those are some good lessons learned along the way.
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Are there any lessons that maybe were tough to learn in anything that you would want to share?
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Because I think so often we grow as leaders.
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Yes, it's like looking at your wins, but often it's like, oh, I really had this bump in the road and or this person taught me something that I didn't really realize about myself.
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Any of those stories that come to mind for you?
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Um Well, I think I learned early on.
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I I'm fortunate because early on I had a leader that was probably one of the more challenging leaders I ever worked with.
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Uh and it was very um control and micromanaged.
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And I really realized like that didn't work for me.
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Um and so as a leader, I am very empowering.
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Um, but one thing that I've learned is that I might prefer to be have a leader that's maybe more hands-off, but I can't uh put that onto somebody else too.
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Because sometimes, like I always think about situational leadership.
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Sometimes people need that extra amount of direction and they don't, they, they don't want to go full on into like, let me do it on my own.
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Right.
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And so I really have um really careful to make sure um that the direction and the leadership I give is the right level for that person.
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Right.
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Um, because I I don't I don't want to not give them enough direction because I maybe like less.
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Right.
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Um, but also too, I don't try to control things and I do let people do their job and surround myself with people that that are really good.
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Um, and that's helped me always have winning teams because I I don't I I try.
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I I'd like to think I don't bring a lot of ego to it.
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I mean, I'm competitive and I'm driven, but I understand the importance of having a team that is um as strong or stronger.
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:36.000
I mean, my operations, my senior operations manager is way better than I am.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.799
Um, but I can help and mentor and guide and lead him in a way that's gonna grow him.
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.240
But his his actual skill set and operations is way better than mine.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:45.360
Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:51.039
I mean, it's all about, you know, bringing people along for the journey and leveraging people's strengths and things like that.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.960
Situational leadership is so important.
00:16:52.960 --> 00:17:03.840
I always share this story when I'm like training or facilitating often when I had a store manager once, and I thought I would, you know, we we at Bath, this was at Bath and Body Works.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:11.759
So I was a district manager, had a store manager, and she um was very just led very different than I did.
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:22.319
And I was we were implementing like ACEs workforce management or something, and she just was not like she wasn't doing, she wasn't executing, and she just kept writing her schedule.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.240
I was like, what is going on here?
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.079
Well, she didn't know how.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.680
She and she was kind of afraid.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.200
She was very more command and control, kind of a leadership style.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:36.960
And so she was waiting for me to tell her what to do and give her very specific direction.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:41.279
And she came to me one day and she's like, You're the worst leader I've ever had.
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:45.759
And I'm like, I ask versus tell, I get people to their insights, all of those things.
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.119
No, she wanted me.
00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:49.920
She's like, as a leader, you need to be telling me exactly what to do.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:51.359
And that's what she was looking for from me.
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.640
But I'll never forget that moment because it was like hurtful.
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:55.119
Right.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:04.799
But also, like, she she called me out in a way that like really made me think about like, what does that person need versus like, well, I just want to be asked.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.519
I don't want to have ever have anybody tell me what to do.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.720
So it was like one of those same, you know, similar moments for sure.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:20.799
When you think about leaders today in retail, is there anything that has is there anything, I guess, that you're looking for today that maybe you didn't look for in leaders in the past?
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:31.039
Um, I wouldn't say different um than the past, but looking for leaders that are curious.
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.480
So you mentioned that earlier.
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:38.480
Um, I think that's one thing I learned from from Less and from DBW is the importance of curiosity.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:44.319
Um and somebody who wants to learn, who um asks questions.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:48.720
Uh that like you can't teach that.
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.039
Like that curiosity, I think you either come with it, you can get better at it.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:53.519
Absolutely.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:55.680
Um, but that curiosity is super important.
00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:03.359
Um uh somebody who um listens to understand versus listens to respond.
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:03.839
Right.
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.680
Uh I think that's so important.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:15.680
Uh somebody who has some empathy uh and uh can can uh get people's buy-in and motivate people and inspire them.
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:31.200
So um, you know, uh recently worked with a a leader that really struggled because she couldn't she did a lot of ask versus tell, but sometimes to your point, the person needed the direction and they were like, what is happening?
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.720
Why aren't I getting direction?
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:34.480
They were so frustrated.
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:42.160
And um, so those things, the those things are so important in the job.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:55.759
And my leaders that I think are most effective are the ones that um really do step back, they take the time, they get to know the person, they they'll trust and report, they listen, um, they learn, they're curious.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.880
Yeah, for sure.
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.759
I I those probably have not changed for you.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:00.319
Right.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:16.720
I think those are just those core kind of fundamentals, and you know, maybe recognize that that's what you're looking for often, like early on in your career, but you you tend to realize, you know, down the road that yep, those are the those are the people, those are the characteristics or the traits that really make great leaders for sure.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:49.200
I want to like start to bridge uh or transition into a little bit of wellness, but I wanted to ask you a question first because I think in retail, and this was my personal experience, that in retail, so often, and maybe it's not exactly like this today, depends on the leader, but so often um the culture is really about almost like you need to work 24-7 because we're, you know, in retail, you're open seven days a week, you're open nights and weekends and holidays.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:58.960
And I think a lot of times, like at least for me, I felt like I was rewarded and recognized for putting in all this extra time and all of those types of things.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:04.000
And so to me, I thought, oh, success looks like you give everything to this company.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.000
How have you like navigated that type of culture?
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.359
And how do you, I guess, have balance?
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:15.039
Um well, definitely early on in my career.
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:21.359
Like I remember preparing for visits and literally going home and taking a shower and going back and opening the store.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:21.759
Right.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:26.160
Uh, that that doesn't really happen anymore, uh, I don't think in retail.
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.920
I I do think there has been a shift, which is a positive one.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:37.359
It sometimes it maybe has swung the other way a little bit too much, like up this like, I'm at 40 hours, I'm done.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:37.839
Right.
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.839
Um, versus like, I want to get this job done and I wanna and I wanna do it right.
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.759
So um so I do think it has shifted a little bit.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:59.599
Um, but for me, I would say maybe the the turning point for me in that um was uh when I was much younger in my career, um, my dad passed away.
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:02.640
Like very suddenly of a heart attack.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.039
And I was really caught off guard by that.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.319
I was in my 20s.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:11.599
And um, it made me think about like my personal health and my wellness and what was important to me.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.039
And I started to think about what I was eating, what I was doing.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:19.039
Was I I always did sports in college, but was I doing them as much?
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:19.519
Right.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:23.759
And so I started to really think about how do I do both.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:28.480
And um and and I'm I live in New York.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:35.200
So uh I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna join, I'm gonna take a running class through Central Park track through Central Park.
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:42.559
Um, and uh I started running and doing that and then just became part of my moment, my friend group and what I did.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:48.799
And then I just started to balance it with work, but always making sure that I was making time for that.
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:57.599
Um and I think the one time in my career where I sort of got in this like cycle of like my business was tough, and like, how do I make it better?
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.559
I got sucked in and I got in the weeds of it and I just started like working more, working harder.
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.559
And the business didn't get better.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:04.799
Yeah.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.839
I just got run down and was pretty miserable.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:08.400
Right.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:12.160
Um, and at one point I had to like coach myself and say, you got to stop this.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:23.119
And I pulled back and I had a great conversation with my boss and um kind of rethought things and got back to my like schedule, my health, my wellness, like taking time to to work out for me.
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:31.920
Because sometimes like that for me, like running at the time was really the time where I could like think through through things and kind of role play in my head.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.039
And so those that time was really important to me.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.039
So I just got back to it and I'm like, I'm never, I'm never going away from it again.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.079
And I think I've held true to that for for a long time.
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:48.079
Well, I remember that about you too, just when we first met, just that importance of in prioritizing your health.
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.559
So I think I mentioned to you that I'm doing collective women's leadership here in Scottsdale.
00:23:52.559 --> 00:24:03.279
It's a networking group that I'm the president of for this chapter, and we focus on a lot of leadership at you know, education and we do a lot of networking events and things like that.
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:18.000
But what was really important to me, because I have had my own journey around health and wellness and some ups and downs, but it's really important to me because I know as a leader, if you're not good with your health, typically you're not a great leader.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.279
And that's like super important.
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:20.799
So that's part of our programming now.
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.359
It's called wild wisdom, which is pretty exciting.
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.480
So, anyways, um, so that's really, really important.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:29.839
And I'm so glad, and you're very much an inspiration around that as well.
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:31.680
So um, all right.
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.599
So let's talk a little bit more about well, I was gonna say this too.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:42.720
I I learned um or I saw this quote that sometimes we confuse exhaustion with commitment.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:49.039
So, like, think about like how you role model that and how do you balance that for your teams too?
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.559
Um, I like check in with them and make sure.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.160
So um, we've had a lot going on recently.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:04.319
And, you know, I had a couple of people on my team that were really traveling a lot and getting home like late on a Friday night.
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:07.279
I had one person who their flight got canceled.
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:08.480
They didn't get in until Saturday.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:15.200
We have summer Fridays, and you know, just saying, like, you know what, next Friday, take the whole day, don't take the half day because you missed it.
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:19.279
And I want you to like recover and regroup and be at your best.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.279
And they're like, okay, thanks.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.359
And and I think just those little things, like, I want them to be healthy.
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.640
I don't want them to be run down.
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.799
And so I try to understand what their calendar and schedule looks like.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:38.240
And there are times when it does get a little hectic and we're we're all in it and we're committed to get it done.
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:43.519
But when it's done, then like, okay, there's a recovery so that you can get back at it.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.799
Yeah, definitely.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.279
Do you talked about um earlier being a being in sports, being captains?
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:51.119
Were you ever a coach in sports?
00:25:51.519 --> 00:26:00.400
Um, I uh I was not like an official coach, but I did um do through a volunteer program, I did train people to run their first marathons.
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.039
Okay, I have I have done a little bit of coaching in sports.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:10.799
Do you see a lot of similarities in sports and in business in terms of you know coaching and teams and all of that?
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.680
Um one of my favorite analogies is I always say that I'm your personal trainer at work.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:16.000
Yeah.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:35.680
So if you go to a personal trainer and you get 10 sessions, if you if you walk away from those 10 sessions and you haven't broken a sweat and you haven't done something that you didn't think you could do, and you didn't really get a good workout, you're not gonna write the proverbial checkout to the next 10 sessions, right?
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:53.279
So I feel like my job at work is to make sure you're in an environment where you can um can fail, but can do things that you didn't think you can do, and that we've built a trust and rapport where you're gonna allow me to push you, maybe sweat a little.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:54.319
Yeah, you know.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:02.079
Um, but at the end, you're gonna walk away feeling so personally satisfied because you achieved something that you didn't know you could.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.200
So I'll I always take that analogy and bring it to work.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:09.440
And I think that kind of helps you contract up front what the experience might look like.
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:09.839
Yeah.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.960
And um, and it makes it easier to give feedback, you know, and coach and give maybe some some tough feedback sometimes.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:17.440
Right.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:18.240
Yeah, I agree.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:25.039
There's so many similarities, I think, in sports versus running a business and leading leading teams and things like that.
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:25.839
So that's great.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.319
I cannot believe we are like out of time already.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:29.680
I know.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:30.559
It's crazy.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:34.160
So I end my podcast with a little rapid fire, which I didn't prepare either.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:35.680
Oh my gosh, okay.
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:37.759
It's kind of more like a this or that.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:38.240
Okay.
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:50.240
Um, and then we're gonna have to have you come back because we didn't really talk much about like untuck it or the business, and we want to get more into wellness, so we're gonna have to have you back, but we'll do the rapid fire to end our session.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.599
So early morning workout or an extra hour of sleep.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:54.880
Early morning workout.
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:56.880
All right, I kind of figured that about you.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:01.039
What about quiet time alone or recharge with friends?
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:03.839
Quiet time alone.
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:04.880
Quiet time alone.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:05.519
That's me too.
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:05.759
Yeah.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:07.599
I love getting, I mean, I love the social.
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.240
We we all need the social stuff with our friends too, but I need my quiet time alone as well.
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:15.200
How about detailed plan or trust your gut?
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.880
I can go both on that.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.359
Um does it depend on the situation.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:22.319
It does.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.279
Um yeah.
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:39.200
Maybe a little more trust my gut as I've gotten older than the detailed plan, because I think about like how I approach things and so sometimes it's nice, but I do love a good to-do list or agenda.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.039
I hate when there's no agenda.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:46.319
I'm gonna have to have you take our thread types at some point because it's like it's kind of like a Myers Briggs.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:51.599
It's called thread types because I'm I'm so curious on what you are because I think you kind of sit in the middle of a couple.
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:52.079
All right.
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:54.880
How about coach from the sidelines or jump in with the team?
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:55.920
Jump in with the team.
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:57.359
Yeah, knew that about you.
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:03.039
And then career advice from your younger self or wisdom from your future self.
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:09.200
Um I think career advice is find ways to get out of your lane.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.119
Um, to take on some different experiences.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:17.440
Um, having a career that's maybe a spider web versus a ladder.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:18.799
Mine was very much a ladder.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.799
And there's a lot of great things about that.
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:23.759
But one thing I wish is there was more of a spider web.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:24.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:25.359
I love that.
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:28.400
I actually was told, I'll just end on this note.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.359
Um, I was once told to pick a lane.
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:34.480
And it was one of our previous boxes that we worked with.
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:40.079
Pick a lane because I was always straddling, you know, home office versus field and that type of thing.
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:43.039
And I was told to pick a lane, and I was like, I'm not picking a lane.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:44.240
I want to do everything.
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:48.640
So I'm going to, you know, try to go into different spots, which is what I did.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:50.240
And I'm so grateful for that experience.
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:58.160
So that's what one of the things I love about of Untucket is that I do get to get into all the different lanes and work cross-functionally.
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.079
And we're a small scrappy team.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:00.319
Right.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:01.519
Um, and we need each other.
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:04.160
So it's it's but it's really rewarding and it's really fun.
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:05.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:07.039
Well, it's so nice to have you here.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.960
I cannot believe it's already in the time's up.
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:09.279
I know.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:10.240
So we'll come back.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:10.880
Yes, okay, for sure.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:11.279
Perfect.
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:11.519
All right.
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:12.079
Thank you.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:12.640
Thanks.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.720
Tell our next behind the thread.
00:00:00.479 --> 00:00:07.440
Behind the Thread features honest, unscripted conversations with leaders who are willing to go beyond the highlight reel.
00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:15.119
This podcast brings together business leaders, founders, and change makers to discuss leadership, wellness, and life.
00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:24.960
We'll explore the logic behind decisions, the impact leadership has on the body and mind, and the habits that help leaders stay grounded, resilient, and real.
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:31.839
If you're interested in learning how leaders actually think, live, and lead, this is where the real story unfolds.
00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:34.880
Let's take a peek behind the thread.
00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:37.679
So, welcome to Behind the Thread.
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:47.520
I am your host, Carrie Habel, and I am also the co-founder and managing partner of Thread Advisory Group, and I'm so excited to have Sandra Scibelli here today.
00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:48.640
Welcome, Sandra.
00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:50.000
Thanks for having me.
00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:50.799
Great to be here.
00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:52.320
Yeah, so nice to have you.
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:54.960
And you're here in Scottsdale, visiting family, right?
00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:56.479
Visiting family and doing some work.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:58.159
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:01.920
So you are truly like an icon in retail.
00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:07.200
I don't know if anybody's told you that before, but you've also been with a lot of iconic brands.
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.280
And so let's go through the list and fill in any blanks that I'm missing.
00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:22.560
So you have been with um brands like Gap, William Sonoma, Ann Taylor, Bath and Body Works, Atleta, Under Armour, and now Untucket.
00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:23.599
That's correct.
00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:24.640
Anyone that I miss?
00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:25.840
No, you got it.
00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:27.599
Yeah, those are some really great brands.
00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:28.959
I definitely feel fortunate.
00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:30.400
I have worked for some really awesome brands.
00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:31.359
Yeah, you have.
00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:32.480
It's been fantastic.
00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:35.920
And we knew each other back at Bath and Body Works.
00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:39.760
We just determined 18 years ago, which is crazy.
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:40.719
I know.
00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:51.120
And I do remember whether it was your first day or your first week coming to travel with you, and was truly like super impressed with how you were able to just make the team feel great.
00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:57.439
You um, you were such a good coach, very inspirational and super, super curious.
00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:02.239
So, like those are some of the things that stand out to me from you know, from those early days.
00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:05.200
But will you just kind of walk us through your story?
00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:09.360
Because you've got a really great story with a lot of great brands and a lot of different roles.
00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:10.800
So I'd love to hear the story.
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:11.759
Oh, sure.
00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:15.599
Um well, I graduated from college with a liberal arts degree.
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:16.800
And so it's like, what do I do?
00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:21.280
What is what do I do with this art history visual arts major?
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:28.560
Um, and one of the things that I also did while I was all throughout school was I played sports and I was always the captain of the sports team.
00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.400
And so I really after I graduated, I thought, well, what can I do?
00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.199
And what skills do I have and where are my strengths?
00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:39.919
And leading teams was something I really loved doing and was passionate about.
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:44.800
And I loved fashion and I had this art background.
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.199
And so I'm like, where can that lead me?
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.360
And so I started to think about like, where could I maybe get into a management training program?
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:52.560
What would that look like?
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:56.080
Um, and so literally I answered an ad in the Boston Globe.
00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:57.520
And they had those.
00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.479
Yes, and then that nothing was in like order.
00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:01.680
You just had to read them all.
00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:02.159
Yeah.
00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:08.800
Um, and so I ended up going to work at the gap and uh was hired as an assistant manager in training.
00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:09.919
And but it was great.
00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:15.039
I they had a really good training program for uh, you know, new managers at the time.
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.319
And from there, I ended up, I was in Boston.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:19.840
I wanted to move to New York.
00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:22.560
And so I left Boston and I moved to New York.
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.479
I went to work for Ann Taylor, which was amazing.
00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:29.280
It was the first time that I really experienced um women in power positions.
00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:33.759
Our CEO at the time was a woman, head of stores was a woman, the regionals were women.
00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:39.360
Uh, and those women really mentored me and helped me grow as a leader and gave me a lot of great opportunities.
00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:39.599
Yeah.
00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.360
Uh so always thankful for that time.
00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:48.400
I was a store manager, and then I was a training store manager and a general manager and then a district manager.
00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:54.879
Um, so I really uh was able to really build my my skills there and grow my career.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:56.080
Um, and super thankful.
00:03:56.080 --> 00:04:02.639
I was that was Ann Taylor in its heyday uh when women were wearing suits to work and and and such.
00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:04.080
Um now it's tennis shoes.
00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:04.719
Exactly.
00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:06.319
Now I'm in sneakers on.
00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:06.800
I know.
00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:08.000
Putting these on today.
00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.039
I was like, what am I doing?
00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:10.560
I'm in tennis shoes every day now.
00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.759
I I can't turn back from sneakers at this point.
00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:25.839
Um, but anyways, you know, my good career kind of started there and um spent many years from there at William Sonoma as a district manager and was promoted to regional vice president.
00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:31.680
I ran um the Midwest in Canada for WS and you know, I have a passion for cooking.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:37.920
So it was really and and there's like I think I still I got this art theme in there too, and being creative.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:39.839
So it was a really nice fit for me.
00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:46.800
You told me too that in your dream is to have a general, like a general store with like gourmet food and things like that.
00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:47.680
Someday, yeah.
00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:48.800
We'll come full circle.
00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:49.199
Yeah.
00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:53.439
Um, but William Snow was great for that, and it was a lot, it was a lot of fun.
00:04:53.439 --> 00:05:05.199
And um I got to work there when Chuck Williams was alive and Howard Lester, who was the CEO and and owner, and just learned so much from their leadership style and their focus on the customer.
00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:05.680
Sure.
00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:07.519
Um, so great experience.
00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:10.000
Um, went back to Ann Taylor briefly.
00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:20.079
Recession happened, ended up um at Bath and Body Works, which I always consider a blessing because um, you know, you mentioned that you traveled with me at the beginning when I first started.
00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.319
You're really the first time I had a coach at work.
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:23.439
You were my coach.
00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:32.240
And I thought that was pretty cool that I was gonna get to work with a coach and get feedback on how I showed up as a leader and how I could be more effective and what was working.
00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:37.199
And um, and so that those memories are like very stand out in my head.
00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:52.399
And uh I would say Bath and Body Works is where I really learned um uh so much about just discipline, execution, accountability, um, performance management, like developing teams, holding teams accountable.
00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:57.439
Um, and then, you know, fast forward, I was there for almost a decade.
00:05:57.439 --> 00:05:59.199
Um, my position was eliminated.
00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:03.199
And that gave me a chance to like pause and say, Yeah, my position was eliminated.
00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:04.800
And so took some time off.
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:12.800
And and what did I want to, and I really thought about, you know, what did I want to do as I kind of felt like I was going into like the second half of my my retail career.
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:14.800
And I knew I wanted to stay in retail.
00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:21.279
Um, although I did do a stint, I I interned with a vegan chef to see if did I want to go that fast.
00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:24.800
But I'm very excited not to, but it was a great passion.
00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:33.360
Yeah, it was my passion, and it was really um fun, fun time to do that and um took some cooking classes and and took some time off.
00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:37.439
Um, but health, wellness, fitness is super important to me.
00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:41.839
So um athletic was at the top of my list of like where I wanted to work next.
00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:46.639
And so I was fortunate enough to um join their team and work with them.
00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:52.560
And again, it was um, I love the idea of empowering women and helping them uh reach their potential.
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:54.639
And we used to say their limitless potential.
00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:55.199
Right.
00:06:55.199 --> 00:07:01.199
Um, and then the opportunity at at Under Armour came about and uh just resonated with me.
00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:08.800
So huge sports brands, um, the team atmosphere there and the um competitive nature.
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:20.319
So I was there for four years during the pandemic and um really enjoyed my time there, and then had the opportunity to um become ahead of retail, and that was certainly a career goal for that I had for myself.
00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:23.040
So joined Untucket three years ago.
00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:25.040
It's it's been a it's been a ride.
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:29.839
Um it's been really a great opportunity to to lead a team.
00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:34.079
I have store operations and visual merchandising that reports to me as well as the field.
00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:35.439
So I didn't know that.
00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:36.800
Yeah, so it's been really nice.
00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:37.759
Yeah.
00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:43.920
So um I think it's it's sort of rounded out my my skill set uh because I hadn't had those experiences before.
00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:44.399
Right.
00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.079
And so you're the US retail head of head of US retail.
00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:49.040
US retail.
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:49.759
Okay, perfect.
00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:50.480
Oh, I love that.
00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:51.600
Well, congratulations.
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:58.240
You've had a lot of really great success and um a lot of like really fantastic brands that you've learned from.
00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:08.959
So when you think about all of those brands, is there one brand that really was like the turning point for you in your career, or you know, anything about any of the brand's culture that really shaped you as a leader?
00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:13.199
I'm sure there's many, many stories on all of them, but anything stands out.
00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:17.439
You know, I think I took something from every brand.
00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:22.720
You know, there was there was awesome moments and huge wins at all of them.
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.439
I was at Bath and Body Works for almost a decade.
00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.160
So that was a big chunk of my retail career.
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:29.839
So 10 years for me.
00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:33.039
And and it was the biggest team I was ever a part of.
00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.600
I think in it at our at our peak, we might have had like 16 regionals or something.
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:45.279
So um so that was definitely formative as far as just building my skill as a leader.
00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:45.679
Sure.
00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:56.240
Um, I think I've grown a lot since leaving there and been able to be uh um maybe more entrepreneurial and learn other parts of the business.
00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:02.159
Um because there it's so big, everybody has their very specific role.
00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:10.879
Um so working for smaller companies after allowed me to kind of tip my hands into different pieces of the business and learn more.
00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:13.519
So that that's been really exciting too.
00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:14.559
You shared a story.
00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:28.080
We shared a story when we were talking earlier today, um, just around, you know, like there was a we don't have to talk about the brand, but which brand it was that were you kind of sitting in a meeting and you were kind of holding back your opinion.
00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:41.279
Um so um, yeah, after I left um BBW, which was like we were talking about, was a lot of execution and the importance of execution and just figuring it out.
00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:46.480
And um, it might not be the best product, but you just have to figure out how to sell it or what to do.
00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:55.200
And um and when I left and I was what was with another company, I was in a business meeting, we were discussing a product that really wasn't selling.
00:09:55.200 --> 00:10:04.480
And I didn't come forward with like my perspective on it because in my past, roll it clarity, like that was not something that you did.
00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:12.080
And my my new boss, we talked after, and I was explaining to her, I was like, this product isn't selling because of you know these reasons.
00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:13.679
I just like, why didn't you say that?
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:16.559
And I was like, oh, because I just need to figure out how to sell it.
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.960
And so we just had this really great moment.
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:26.720
And she was such a uh an awesome boss and really um encouraged me to share my perspective.
00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:42.000
And that's where I think I really had this tremendous amount of personal growth um as a leader, uh, just more in, I guess, in a in a corporate setting, not just leading a field team, but working cross-functionally across different departments.
00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.440
Um, because we didn't really do that at Al Brands so much.
00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:48.799
And so um that was something that was new to me.
00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:53.759
And and it was I I I think very like career shifting for me and very empowering.
00:10:53.759 --> 00:11:05.440
And and from that moment on, I said, you know, wherever I go next or whatever I do, if I can't share my opinion or what I think, then it's probably not the right place for me.
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:06.159
Right.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.919
Well, and you're very, you're very assertive and confident and all of those things.
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:11.600
But it was that culture for us.
00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.039
I know at L Brands.
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:21.919
I mean, I had an opportunity to work in a couple of different departments, so I had some different experiences, but we always talked about role clarity and everybody really needed to stay in their lane.
00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:25.759
And so that, you know, that was a perfect example of like that cultural shift.
00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:33.279
And then when you get into a different, different type of a role where your opinion is valued and you want to be not that it wasn't at Bath and Body Works.
00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:34.559
It's different, but it was just different.
00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:35.440
Yeah, for sure.
00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:39.519
What about um your time now at Untuck at leading store operations?
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:40.879
How has that shifted?
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:49.600
Is there anything that comes to mind that like you learned or you know, you had any aha moments or insights just from taking on store ops?
00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:58.080
Um I think it's so the store operations piece, it's so important that that people are that are in that role have been in stores.
00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:08.320
Uh, because your filter has to be how to make it easier for stores and how to simplify and reduce workload and make it easy to understand.
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:15.919
And so um I felt like I came in with that and and that filter, which was a win.
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.720
Um, but there are also times where you you just get it wrong, right?
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:28.080
And your communication's off and somebody doesn't understand it, or and it's like, how do you adjust and pivot and learn from it so that you get more clear for the next time?
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:28.559
Right.
00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:35.759
Um, but our whole everybody, like our whole ops team to small, but it's all stores.
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.080
And and at Unor, we we had that too.
00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:40.399
Like the major stores came from stores?
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:45.679
Most of the people at in the store operations team at at Ontramor came from my region.
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:46.240
Uh-huh.
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:48.399
And then it promoted them with into stores.
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:55.440
But it made it, it made it better for everybody because we understood what happens in the stores and what the associates are facing every day.
00:12:55.440 --> 00:13:11.600
So um it was sort of a natural next step for me, but I'm glad I had the stores experience before I took on a store operations role because I'm always really sensitive to being on that receiving end of the direction of the communication.
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:12.240
I know.
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:14.320
I think that helped me so much too.
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:23.759
And I, because I came from the field, I was, you know, worked my way up from a beauty advisor behind a nested lauder counter and, you know, as a district manager, multiple field roles.
00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.679
And then when I got into the office, that perspective, there wasn't a lot of people.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:32.960
This was at Bath and Body Works, there wasn't a ton of people that actually, you know, came from stores.
00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:37.600
So a lot of times they would look to me like in learning and development, like, well, is this gonna work?
00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:47.279
And it was just a different mindset shift, I think, for me, even just coming in with that experience, like to really be able to say, well, I've sat in a seat or I've been in their shoes.
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.679
So this is not gonna work or this is gonna work.
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:56.799
So I think it's for any of those retailers out there, if you don't have people in store ops that came from stores, you need to.
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.879
You just, yeah, you need to know how the the store teams think.
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:01.120
Right.
00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.039
And uh it's different.
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:19.679
So I have two uh coworkers right now who are um work in in the in the marketing team, and they've been leaning in and helping support a couple of things operationally, and they were working on a directive and they were asking me a lot of questions, and they're like, I don't need to put all this in.
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:20.639
I was like, No, you do.
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:21.200
Right.
00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:23.679
And you have to be really clear, really specific.
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:34.000
You have to give clear direction, and um that you have to understand the skill set from tenured to new, and how do you create something that everybody can understand and execute on?
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:35.519
Right, absolutely.
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.399
All right, so those are some good lessons learned along the way.
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:43.360
Are there any lessons that maybe were tough to learn in anything that you would want to share?
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.919
Because I think so often we grow as leaders.
00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:55.440
Yes, it's like looking at your wins, but often it's like, oh, I really had this bump in the road and or this person taught me something that I didn't really realize about myself.
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.759
Any of those stories that come to mind for you?
00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:02.000
Um Well, I think I learned early on.
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:09.759
I I'm fortunate because early on I had a leader that was probably one of the more challenging leaders I ever worked with.
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.840
Uh and it was very um control and micromanaged.
00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.440
And I really realized like that didn't work for me.
00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:24.559
Um and so as a leader, I am very empowering.
00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:36.240
Um, but one thing that I've learned is that I might prefer to be have a leader that's maybe more hands-off, but I can't uh put that onto somebody else too.
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.879
Because sometimes, like I always think about situational leadership.
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:47.600
Sometimes people need that extra amount of direction and they don't, they, they don't want to go full on into like, let me do it on my own.
00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:47.919
Right.
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:58.960
And so I really have um really careful to make sure um that the direction and the leadership I give is the right level for that person.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:15:59.360
Right.
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:04.799
Um, because I I don't I don't want to not give them enough direction because I maybe like less.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:05.279
Right.
00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:14.320
Um, but also too, I don't try to control things and I do let people do their job and surround myself with people that that are really good.
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:19.759
Um, and that's helped me always have winning teams because I I don't I I try.
00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:22.399
I I'd like to think I don't bring a lot of ego to it.
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:31.120
I mean, I'm competitive and I'm driven, but I understand the importance of having a team that is um as strong or stronger.
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:36.000
I mean, my operations, my senior operations manager is way better than I am.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.799
Um, but I can help and mentor and guide and lead him in a way that's gonna grow him.
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.240
But his his actual skill set and operations is way better than mine.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:45.360
Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:51.039
I mean, it's all about, you know, bringing people along for the journey and leveraging people's strengths and things like that.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.960
Situational leadership is so important.
00:16:52.960 --> 00:17:03.840
I always share this story when I'm like training or facilitating often when I had a store manager once, and I thought I would, you know, we we at Bath, this was at Bath and Body Works.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:11.759
So I was a district manager, had a store manager, and she um was very just led very different than I did.
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:22.319
And I was we were implementing like ACEs workforce management or something, and she just was not like she wasn't doing, she wasn't executing, and she just kept writing her schedule.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.240
I was like, what is going on here?
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.079
Well, she didn't know how.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.680
She and she was kind of afraid.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.200
She was very more command and control, kind of a leadership style.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:36.960
And so she was waiting for me to tell her what to do and give her very specific direction.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:41.279
And she came to me one day and she's like, You're the worst leader I've ever had.
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:45.759
And I'm like, I ask versus tell, I get people to their insights, all of those things.
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.119
No, she wanted me.
00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:49.920
She's like, as a leader, you need to be telling me exactly what to do.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:51.359
And that's what she was looking for from me.
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.640
But I'll never forget that moment because it was like hurtful.
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:55.119
Right.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:04.799
But also, like, she she called me out in a way that like really made me think about like, what does that person need versus like, well, I just want to be asked.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.519
I don't want to have ever have anybody tell me what to do.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.720
So it was like one of those same, you know, similar moments for sure.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:20.799
When you think about leaders today in retail, is there anything that has is there anything, I guess, that you're looking for today that maybe you didn't look for in leaders in the past?
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:31.039
Um, I wouldn't say different um than the past, but looking for leaders that are curious.
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.480
So you mentioned that earlier.
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:38.480
Um, I think that's one thing I learned from from Less and from DBW is the importance of curiosity.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:44.319
Um and somebody who wants to learn, who um asks questions.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:48.720
Uh that like you can't teach that.
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.039
Like that curiosity, I think you either come with it, you can get better at it.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:53.519
Absolutely.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:55.680
Um, but that curiosity is super important.
00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:03.359
Um uh somebody who um listens to understand versus listens to respond.
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:03.839
Right.
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.680
Uh I think that's so important.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:15.680
Uh somebody who has some empathy uh and uh can can uh get people's buy-in and motivate people and inspire them.
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:31.200
So um, you know, uh recently worked with a a leader that really struggled because she couldn't she did a lot of ask versus tell, but sometimes to your point, the person needed the direction and they were like, what is happening?
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.720
Why aren't I getting direction?
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:34.480
They were so frustrated.
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:42.160
And um, so those things, the those things are so important in the job.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:55.759
And my leaders that I think are most effective are the ones that um really do step back, they take the time, they get to know the person, they they'll trust and report, they listen, um, they learn, they're curious.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.880
Yeah, for sure.
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.759
I I those probably have not changed for you.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:00.319
Right.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:16.720
I think those are just those core kind of fundamentals, and you know, maybe recognize that that's what you're looking for often, like early on in your career, but you you tend to realize, you know, down the road that yep, those are the those are the people, those are the characteristics or the traits that really make great leaders for sure.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:49.200
I want to like start to bridge uh or transition into a little bit of wellness, but I wanted to ask you a question first because I think in retail, and this was my personal experience, that in retail, so often, and maybe it's not exactly like this today, depends on the leader, but so often um the culture is really about almost like you need to work 24-7 because we're, you know, in retail, you're open seven days a week, you're open nights and weekends and holidays.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:58.960
And I think a lot of times, like at least for me, I felt like I was rewarded and recognized for putting in all this extra time and all of those types of things.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:04.000
And so to me, I thought, oh, success looks like you give everything to this company.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.000
How have you like navigated that type of culture?
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.359
And how do you, I guess, have balance?
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:15.039
Um well, definitely early on in my career.
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:21.359
Like I remember preparing for visits and literally going home and taking a shower and going back and opening the store.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:21.759
Right.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:26.160
Uh, that that doesn't really happen anymore, uh, I don't think in retail.
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.920
I I do think there has been a shift, which is a positive one.
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:37.359
It sometimes it maybe has swung the other way a little bit too much, like up this like, I'm at 40 hours, I'm done.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:37.839
Right.
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.839
Um, versus like, I want to get this job done and I wanna and I wanna do it right.
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.759
So um so I do think it has shifted a little bit.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:59.599
Um, but for me, I would say maybe the the turning point for me in that um was uh when I was much younger in my career, um, my dad passed away.
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:02.640
Like very suddenly of a heart attack.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.039
And I was really caught off guard by that.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.319
I was in my 20s.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:11.599
And um, it made me think about like my personal health and my wellness and what was important to me.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.039
And I started to think about what I was eating, what I was doing.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:19.039
Was I I always did sports in college, but was I doing them as much?
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:19.519
Right.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:23.759
And so I started to really think about how do I do both.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:28.480
And um and and I'm I live in New York.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:35.200
So uh I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna join, I'm gonna take a running class through Central Park track through Central Park.
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:42.559
Um, and uh I started running and doing that and then just became part of my moment, my friend group and what I did.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:48.799
And then I just started to balance it with work, but always making sure that I was making time for that.
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:57.599
Um and I think the one time in my career where I sort of got in this like cycle of like my business was tough, and like, how do I make it better?
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.559
I got sucked in and I got in the weeds of it and I just started like working more, working harder.
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.559
And the business didn't get better.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:04.799
Yeah.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.839
I just got run down and was pretty miserable.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:08.400
Right.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:12.160
Um, and at one point I had to like coach myself and say, you got to stop this.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:23.119
And I pulled back and I had a great conversation with my boss and um kind of rethought things and got back to my like schedule, my health, my wellness, like taking time to to work out for me.
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:31.920
Because sometimes like that for me, like running at the time was really the time where I could like think through through things and kind of role play in my head.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.039
And so those that time was really important to me.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.039
So I just got back to it and I'm like, I'm never, I'm never going away from it again.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.079
And I think I've held true to that for for a long time.
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:48.079
Well, I remember that about you too, just when we first met, just that importance of in prioritizing your health.
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.559
So I think I mentioned to you that I'm doing collective women's leadership here in Scottsdale.
00:23:52.559 --> 00:24:03.279
It's a networking group that I'm the president of for this chapter, and we focus on a lot of leadership at you know, education and we do a lot of networking events and things like that.
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:18.000
But what was really important to me, because I have had my own journey around health and wellness and some ups and downs, but it's really important to me because I know as a leader, if you're not good with your health, typically you're not a great leader.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.279
And that's like super important.
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:20.799
So that's part of our programming now.
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.359
It's called wild wisdom, which is pretty exciting.
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.480
So, anyways, um, so that's really, really important.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:29.839
And I'm so glad, and you're very much an inspiration around that as well.
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:31.680
So um, all right.
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.599
So let's talk a little bit more about well, I was gonna say this too.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:42.720
I I learned um or I saw this quote that sometimes we confuse exhaustion with commitment.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:49.039
So, like, think about like how you role model that and how do you balance that for your teams too?
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.559
Um, I like check in with them and make sure.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.160
So um, we've had a lot going on recently.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:04.319
And, you know, I had a couple of people on my team that were really traveling a lot and getting home like late on a Friday night.
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:07.279
I had one person who their flight got canceled.
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:08.480
They didn't get in until Saturday.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:15.200
We have summer Fridays, and you know, just saying, like, you know what, next Friday, take the whole day, don't take the half day because you missed it.
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:19.279
And I want you to like recover and regroup and be at your best.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.279
And they're like, okay, thanks.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.359
And and I think just those little things, like, I want them to be healthy.
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.640
I don't want them to be run down.
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.799
And so I try to understand what their calendar and schedule looks like.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:38.240
And there are times when it does get a little hectic and we're we're all in it and we're committed to get it done.
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:43.519
But when it's done, then like, okay, there's a recovery so that you can get back at it.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.799
Yeah, definitely.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.279
Do you talked about um earlier being a being in sports, being captains?
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:51.119
Were you ever a coach in sports?
00:25:51.519 --> 00:26:00.400
Um, I uh I was not like an official coach, but I did um do through a volunteer program, I did train people to run their first marathons.
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.039
Okay, I have I have done a little bit of coaching in sports.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:10.799
Do you see a lot of similarities in sports and in business in terms of you know coaching and teams and all of that?
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.680
Um one of my favorite analogies is I always say that I'm your personal trainer at work.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:16.000
Yeah.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:35.680
So if you go to a personal trainer and you get 10 sessions, if you if you walk away from those 10 sessions and you haven't broken a sweat and you haven't done something that you didn't think you could do, and you didn't really get a good workout, you're not gonna write the proverbial checkout to the next 10 sessions, right?
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:53.279
So I feel like my job at work is to make sure you're in an environment where you can um can fail, but can do things that you didn't think you can do, and that we've built a trust and rapport where you're gonna allow me to push you, maybe sweat a little.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:54.319
Yeah, you know.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:02.079
Um, but at the end, you're gonna walk away feeling so personally satisfied because you achieved something that you didn't know you could.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.200
So I'll I always take that analogy and bring it to work.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:09.440
And I think that kind of helps you contract up front what the experience might look like.
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:09.839
Yeah.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.960
And um, and it makes it easier to give feedback, you know, and coach and give maybe some some tough feedback sometimes.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:17.440
Right.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:18.240
Yeah, I agree.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:25.039
There's so many similarities, I think, in sports versus running a business and leading leading teams and things like that.
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:25.839
So that's great.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.319
I cannot believe we are like out of time already.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:29.680
I know.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:30.559
It's crazy.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:34.160
So I end my podcast with a little rapid fire, which I didn't prepare either.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:35.680
Oh my gosh, okay.
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:37.759
It's kind of more like a this or that.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:38.240
Okay.
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:50.240
Um, and then we're gonna have to have you come back because we didn't really talk much about like untuck it or the business, and we want to get more into wellness, so we're gonna have to have you back, but we'll do the rapid fire to end our session.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.599
So early morning workout or an extra hour of sleep.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:54.880
Early morning workout.
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:56.880
All right, I kind of figured that about you.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:01.039
What about quiet time alone or recharge with friends?
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:03.839
Quiet time alone.
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:04.880
Quiet time alone.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:05.519
That's me too.
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:05.759
Yeah.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:07.599
I love getting, I mean, I love the social.
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.240
We we all need the social stuff with our friends too, but I need my quiet time alone as well.
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:15.200
How about detailed plan or trust your gut?
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.880
I can go both on that.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.359
Um does it depend on the situation.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:22.319
It does.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.279
Um yeah.
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:39.200
Maybe a little more trust my gut as I've gotten older than the detailed plan, because I think about like how I approach things and so sometimes it's nice, but I do love a good to-do list or agenda.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.039
I hate when there's no agenda.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:46.319
I'm gonna have to have you take our thread types at some point because it's like it's kind of like a Myers Briggs.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:51.599
It's called thread types because I'm I'm so curious on what you are because I think you kind of sit in the middle of a couple.
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:52.079
All right.
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:54.880
How about coach from the sidelines or jump in with the team?
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:55.920
Jump in with the team.
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:57.359
Yeah, knew that about you.
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:03.039
And then career advice from your younger self or wisdom from your future self.
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:09.200
Um I think career advice is find ways to get out of your lane.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.119
Um, to take on some different experiences.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:17.440
Um, having a career that's maybe a spider web versus a ladder.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:18.799
Mine was very much a ladder.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.799
And there's a lot of great things about that.
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:23.759
But one thing I wish is there was more of a spider web.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:24.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:25.359
I love that.
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:28.400
I actually was told, I'll just end on this note.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.359
Um, I was once told to pick a lane.
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:34.480
And it was one of our previous boxes that we worked with.
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:40.079
Pick a lane because I was always straddling, you know, home office versus field and that type of thing.
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:43.039
And I was told to pick a lane, and I was like, I'm not picking a lane.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:44.240
I want to do everything.
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:48.640
So I'm going to, you know, try to go into different spots, which is what I did.
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:50.240
And I'm so grateful for that experience.
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:58.160
So that's what one of the things I love about of Untucket is that I do get to get into all the different lanes and work cross-functionally.
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.079
And we're a small scrappy team.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:00.319
Right.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:01.519
Um, and we need each other.
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:04.160
So it's it's but it's really rewarding and it's really fun.
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:05.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:07.039
Well, it's so nice to have you here.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.960
I cannot believe it's already in the time's up.
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:09.279
I know.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:10.240
So we'll come back.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:10.880
Yes, okay, for sure.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:11.279
Perfect.
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:11.519
All right.
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:12.079
Thank you.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:12.640
Thanks.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.720
Tell our next behind the thread.
