00:00:10Global Outrage
00:13:23Campus Protests and Divestment Controversy
00:21:31Debate on Israel Human Rights
00:36:52Podcast Review Reminder
אודות פרק זה
Sickness and stress are universal adversaries, but sometimes it's the simple pleasures like a Snickers bar that offer a sweet reprieve. This week, amid discussing our own skirmishes with life's curveballs, we also peel back the layers of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a topic that's as complex as it is heated. We wade into the dialogue surrounding the recent global protests in support of Palestine. Listen as we break down the cacophony of international voices, the varied demands of protestors, and the ripple effects felt from government halls to academic institutions.
The fervor of activism doesn't stop at global politics — university campuses across the U.S. have become battlegrounds for student-led protests and divestment movements. Our conversation takes you through the tumultuous events, from hunger strikes to the disruption of time-honored ceremonies, and the repercussions of such activism. We scrutinize the national conversation on Israel's support, drawing parallels to historic protests and navigating the ethical quagmires of allyship and activism. Get ready for a thought-provoking look at the choices facing educational leaders and the influence of student voices in shaping dialogue on these issues.
As we wrap up, we ponder the responsibilities that come with institutional power when it intersects with calls for social justice. Reflecting on the delicate balance between university policies and student demands, we explore the challenges faced by the chancellor at UC Irvine in his negotiations with protestors. Our analysis doesn't shy away from the tough questions about global allyship, the ethics involved, and the weighty decisions that must be made amidst moral and political complexities. So, if you're ready for an episode that promises to both enlighten and entertain, don't miss out on this robust discussion.
Connect with us at @babewhatpodcast for updates, interactions, and polls.
If you want to help financially support the show, keep our mics on, and help us to continue creating high quality content, you can become a supporter of our show here and contribute as little or as much as you'd like.
Please remember to rate, subscribe, and review!
אנגלית
ארצות הברית
בפרק זה
הראה הערות 🔗
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WEBVTT
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Welcome to Babe.
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What Do you Know About the podcast with your favorite husband and wife, duo Sam
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and Tayla.
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Each week we dive deep into a new subject, blending fun and seriousness to push boundaries and buttons.
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Get ready to expand your knowledge, challenge your perspectives and have a blast along the way.
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Well, it's been a hell of a two weeks.
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It has.
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I've been, I got sick finally.
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It's been a while.
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You say that with such glee.
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I'm so confused.
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Well, I was proud how long it took me to get sick so famous last words, famous, last words.
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I'm not getting sick anymore I know yeah it's been a couple weeks.
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We just sorry guys.
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It's just been a hell of a couple of weeks and the illness we've been dealing with is throw upy-y illnesses, bad illnesses, babies with the illnesses, sam with the illnesses.
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Yeah.
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My immune system is apparently stronger than yours because I got sick, but I didn't actually throw up.
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I still feel like Nope, I had food poisoning.
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No, you did not have food, poisoning my whole gut biome got absolutely destroyed on this go-around.
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But your gut biome got absolutely destroyed on this go around, but your gut biome is easily destroyed.
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How many stomach infections have you gotten after you've gotten sick?
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You've had issues.
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Just the last two times Exactly.
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Yeah, but I thought I fixed it.
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That's the thing.
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Like I thought I'd been working on that so well since January.
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That's what they say about weight loss.
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It's like it takes you that long to wreck your body.
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It takes you that long to wreck your body.
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It takes you that long to build it back up.
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I'm sure the changes were good, but a couple months of it is not going to.
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Let me tell you, I ate sourdough bread today.
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Nice, yeah, that's all it takes.
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That's all it takes, yeah.
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What else?
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Did you do your?
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apple cider vinegar.
00:02:05.766 --> 00:02:07.251
I'm about to uh-huh, and what else?
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I I haven't done this in a really long time, but I was at a gas station and I was like you know what I'm feeling so much anxiety right now and I I bought a snickers bar, a snickers I don't think I've ever been around you and you bought this.
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No, I just I went to the gas station only to go buy a snickers bar, and I ate this snake as well, not just a normal, like the king size too oh, you were really anxious today, yeah, and it didn't help.
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Did you become yourself?
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No, it feels good, you, when you're hungry.
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I don't know what.
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The, the sugar, the dopamine, whatever that helped while I was eating it.
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And then afterwards I'm like, oh, now I'm also garbage, because I ate a giant Snickers bar.
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I had a chocolate chip cookie today after lunch at work.
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Oh, sorry guys, the yawning Same thing.
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It was really good when I was eating it and then I was like, like I just didn't need it you seen this?
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you see, you see my right eyes twitching I can't see anything, just twitching no guys, the pressure is building sam's gonna break if, if anything happens to him.
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I didn't kill him, he just died from a heart attack, from his own stress yeah, we're getting really close to being at the finish line with the, the board game.
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Yes, and it's just.
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I've never a lot.
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Yeah, like the thing is, I usually handle stress really well, but I think since having kids, for some reason it makes everything feel like it's the most important thing in the world.
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It's high stakes.
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It feels so high stakes all of a sudden because I've I've like lived a pretty carefree life and it doesn't really matter, like what happens to me, whatever.
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But right now, kids will do it to you.
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It's twitching.
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I don't see it.
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Anyway, we should talk about what we're going to talk about.
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Today should be an interesting topic.
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I'm going to do my little intro after I yawn.
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Hold, please, all right.
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The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has reignited global outrage, with pro-Palestine protests erupting on college campuses and city streets worldwide.
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In the US alone, hundreds of students have been arrested, over 275 at Columbia University in New York City.
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These demonstrations transcend borders, with students in Paris also taking a stand in solidarity.
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In other places, beyond the immediate conflict, these protests tap into a deep well of frustration over human rights concerns and the ongoing Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories.
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Some argue that Israel's recent military actions in Gaza, which, according to the UN, resulted in a disproportionate number of Palestinian civilian casualties, are the tipping point.
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Others see this as part of a larger struggle for Palestinian self-determination and a just resolution for a decades-old conflict.
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We're going to explore reasons behind the outrage, the demands of protesters, and how governance and law enforcement and universities are responding.
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So, babe, what do you know about the protests for Palestine?
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A little bit.
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You know what.
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I'm actually glad that we didn't do this recording a week ago or whatever, because they kind of feel like it's I don't't know, the words run its course, but we now know like we're further along a full, a more fuller story.
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So, yeah, I'm happy about that, because it would have been a lot of just like well, here's my opinion yeah well, I guess that's what we do.
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That's a podcast.
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Here's my opinion yeah, but I agree like there's been more development since last week when we were going to record this, which I think will be interesting to talk about.
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So I'm going to use my favorite person ever, Sharon McMann's some of her updates on what has been going on and I love her information so much because she reads at least 12 different news sources from the left all the way to the central and to the right and gives pretty good fact-based summaries of things at least 12 different news sources from the left all the way to the central and to the right and gives pretty good fact-based summaries of things also.
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I'm actually a fan of her as well, because she pushes for basically we're getting money out of politics and is very centrist.
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Yes, she's very centrist.
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Which?
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At least yeah, and nuanced centrist nuanced and that's pretty rare for someone on social media these days, especially in the political space.
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And especially in a successful way at all.
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Goodness, gracious me, okay.
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So here's some of the you won't get me to yawn, Like every single time you're yawning, it's like invoking like a yawn response, but I'm not gonna do it.
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I'm very sensitive to like yawn contagion, very sensitive to it.
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I will, I will.
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He's just do stop, okay, okay.
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So Columbia has been the big universe Stop.
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Columbia's been the the I would say one of the college campus protests that has received a lot of ammunition is the wrong way to put it.
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A lot of support and a lot of reporting.
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A lot of support and a lot of reporting, a lot of attention a lot of attention, goodness gracious me.
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So this was.
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I think this was around the the 29th of april.
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The columbia's administration had told protesters that they had to leave an encampment that was there on the campus and said that they would suspend students who refused to leave.
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But after midnight, so around midnight on the 30th of April, protesters entered Hamilton Hall, which is an academic building, chanting Free Palestine, and they stacked chairs and tables across the doors to block the entrances and hung a Palestinian flag out the window.
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And then at 2 am, the group that organized the encampment on social media said that they would stay there until Columbia responded to their demands.
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The administration closed the campus to everyone except for students who live on campus and those who provide essential services, and shut down all entrances except for one to the campus, and the students occupied that building well into the morning.
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There's also pro-Palestinian protesters who occupied the library at Portland State, and campus was also shut down there.
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Protesters also took over a building at Cal Poly, humboldt, including the president's office, and the university closed that campus and then they had later that day cleared the building with law enforcement and arrested 35 people who would face charges of unlawful assembly, vandalism, conspiracy and others and disciplinary action from the school, so on.
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The third as of the 30th of april, nearly 80 people were arrested at the university of texas.
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Another 80 were arrested at virginia tech.
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Dozens more were arrested at schools in utah, virginia and new jersey.
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And the universities say they would.
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They are saying that they always warn the students to disperse before calling in police enforcement.
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I think for the most part the school administration wants to avoid involving the police as much as possible, because typically that escalates the situations.
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But 30 people were also arrested at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill campus, and Northwestern University was one of the universities that reached an agreement with their students to allow them to continue protesting, but they had to remove or tense and unapproved loudspeakers, and that was something that they agreed to.
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So why are they protesting beyond just the the conflict?
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So the biggest thing that protesters seem to want from the universities is for them to stop profiting from investments that are tied to israel.
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So an example of that is that universities invest money into funds that contain, for example, defense contractors and those defense contractors whose weapons are sent to israel.
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They want the universities to stop investing to help create a ceasefire in gaza, and so the students are not expecting the schools to be responsible for what's happening in Gaza.
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They obviously know that an individual university cannot change the actions of a foreign government.
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So what they are asking their schools to do is to divest, which is essentially to get rid of investments in companies that have relationships with Israel, because that's how most universities kind of keep, that's how they invest their money and become profitable.
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Thoughts from you.
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I'm going to get some buy-in from you before I give some more updated statistics from a few days after that initial thoughts on what you've presented so far is pretty much par for the course, what you would expect.
00:10:34.465 --> 00:10:46.841
You know, students rightfully have free speech and can protest things and, can you know, want change for things, but then cross the line and start to take over the building.
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Yeah, take over the building yeah, and so that that's not free speech anymore.
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And so I like that, because I was reading some interactions between the chancellors and university leadership how they've been trying to negotiate with them to disperse before getting law enforcement.
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:19.191
That seems to be the most common thing that happened yeah, but then obviously law enforcement was, you know, required to get rid of some of the encampments and people taking over buildings and happen.
00:11:19.191 --> 00:11:21.567
I mean, that's all like good, that's due process.
00:11:21.567 --> 00:11:23.075
I wouldn't say called due process, but it's.
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It's how you expect the system to work and I think that's it's working in a in a good way.
00:11:27.727 --> 00:11:31.690
So one people have the right to protest, two people cross the line.
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Three they've been asked to not cross that line for when they've not followed direction.
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May please?
00:11:38.672 --> 00:11:41.605
stop doing that law enforcement all good, happy.
00:11:41.986 --> 00:11:44.994
Two thumbs up, okay, that's how I feel okay.
00:11:46.297 --> 00:12:00.010
so these protests started out, as for the most part, pretty peaceful, but last thursday the police cleared a pro-palestinian encampment at the university of california, la, and they arrested dozens of protesters.
00:12:00.010 --> 00:12:09.591
The police had previously been to the campus the day before to break up fights between pro-palestinian protesters and a group of counter protesters who came to tear down the encampment.
00:12:09.591 --> 00:12:13.350
So that's a problem too, is like vigilantes trying to do the police's job.
00:12:13.350 --> 00:12:18.067
But then the police returned early on Thursday morning at the request of the university.
00:12:18.067 --> 00:12:39.642
Before the police entered the encampment, ucla issued an alert asking the students to leave the area due to unlawful assembly, because they're on, not public property, and the photos and videos of the event seem to show the police using rubber bullets and flashbangs, which is a device that makes a loud noise and bright light to disorient people without a major injury within the encampment.
00:12:39.642 --> 00:12:43.711
And after nearly three hours the police reported that they had cleared the encampment.
00:12:43.711 --> 00:12:48.932
So that's one example of kind of a more violent interaction.
00:12:48.932 --> 00:12:57.823
Another, at Portland State University, students occupied a library on last Monday and they had remained there since Yesterday.
00:12:57.823 --> 00:13:04.850
The administration talked with protesters and 50 people left on their own based on those, and then the police were called to clear remaining protesters out of the building.
00:13:04.850 --> 00:13:09.388
There were still 50 to 100 inside and that situation was still ongoing.
00:13:09.388 --> 00:13:23.427
Protesters at Brown University made a deal with the administration to take down their encampment by Tuesday night if the university would hold discussions and a vote on divesting funds from companies connected to the Israeli military, and that encampment had since been removed.
00:13:23.659 --> 00:13:26.109
So here are some more updated arrests.
00:13:26.109 --> 00:13:36.025
There were 90 people arrested at Dartmouth College after setting up an encampment on the main lawn of the campus and they are facing charges including criminal trespass and resisting arrest.
00:13:36.025 --> 00:13:43.780
17 people were arrested at University of Texas, dallas after police cleared the encampment there and they're going to be charged with criminal trespass.
00:13:43.780 --> 00:13:49.322
12 people were arrested at University of New Hampshire and charged with disorderly conduct and trespassing.
00:13:49.322 --> 00:13:55.990
At least 15 people were arrested at Fordham University in the Bronx after setting up an encampment inside one of the campus buildings.
00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.211
That's not a comprehensive list by any stretch.
00:14:00.211 --> 00:14:09.025
There was some body cam footage of the students at Columbia who had taken over a Hamilton Hall who had still been in there for over 24 hours before being cleared by police.
00:14:09.025 --> 00:14:24.186
Columbia was not holding exams and was holding a remote graduation and that was a definitely a more kind of I don't know if violent is the right way to put it, but it was more like the students were.
00:14:24.186 --> 00:14:32.625
They were not attacking the police, but kind of they were like someone was using a big water bottle canister to like bop them on the head, pass their riot gear and stuff.
00:14:32.625 --> 00:14:34.225
So super unideal.
00:14:34.780 --> 00:14:39.852
And then the last kind of updates that I'll give logistically before we kind of dive into some things.
00:14:39.852 --> 00:14:41.667
This is from yesterday.
00:14:41.667 --> 00:14:55.866
Students at Princeton University started a hunger strike I don't know if you've heard of this yet and they said that the hunger strike will go on until the school meets with the students to discuss their demands for disclosure, divestment and a full academic and cultural boycott of Israel.
00:14:55.866 --> 00:15:03.552
They wanted the charges also dropped against students who were previously arrested for protesting, which was at least 17 undergraduate students.
00:15:03.552 --> 00:15:09.437
Oh, no, no, sorry, 17 undergraduate students are taking part in the strike, according to the school's newspaper.
00:15:09.437 --> 00:15:18.505
Princeton responded by saying the school cares for its students' well-being and the students involved are being monitored by physicians, and I haven't heard any updates from there.
00:15:18.505 --> 00:15:19.369
There probably are some.
00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:29.000
And then a couple last ones 25 people were arrested at University of Virginia on Saturday after clearing an encampment, and the police did use tear gas on those protesters.
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:33.982
And then on Saturday protesters disrupted the University of Michigan's commencement ceremony.
00:15:33.982 --> 00:15:46.370
And then Columbia University yesterday morning canceled its main university-wide commencement ceremony because of security concerns, and it's going to still try hold smaller events and individual school ceremonies around the city.
00:15:46.370 --> 00:15:51.086
Over 200 protesters were arrested after that bullying takeover.
00:15:51.086 --> 00:15:56.727
And then Emory University in Atlanta is also moving its ceremony off campus to a different location in Duluth, georgia.
00:15:56.727 --> 00:16:05.203
There at UCLA, the university chancellor, jean Bloch, said in a statement that the school is going to create an office of campus safety to guide the school through.
00:16:05.203 --> 00:16:08.152
Quote tense times, close quote.
00:16:08.152 --> 00:16:16.313
And so the numbers as of yesterday were that over 2,200 people have been arrested on college campuses in the past two weeks.
00:16:16.313 --> 00:16:19.265
Thoughts on any of that?
00:16:21.880 --> 00:16:58.889
I was having the thought that one of the positives that has come from this would be that they have been able to effectively change the conversation nationwide, talking about, maybe, some of the nuance behind how and in what ways do we support israel as a country and then as a people, and what things can we do to have like not just straight up, hey, yeah, you just have complete support because you're israel.
00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:00.312
Here's all the money, here's all the support.
00:17:00.312 --> 00:17:01.561
Do what you need to to now.
00:17:02.042 --> 00:17:31.978
I think there creates a conversation where there's, like you know, sure maybe the government's not gonna like yeah yeah, sure I don't agree with how you protested sure I don't and you know the consequences are going to come from that for some of them and sure I don't agree with like 90 of what they are protesting, but there's a part of it that is very, the very important, because the protesters have a range of like what they're unhappy with.
00:17:31.978 --> 00:17:36.208
Like you have some protesters that are just straight up like no israel for anything.
00:17:36.208 --> 00:17:37.770
Israel is bad.
00:17:37.770 --> 00:17:40.143
You know, hamas is great.
00:17:40.143 --> 00:17:49.932
There's literally people that have been protesting and pushing that narrative yeah, I would say that's a much smaller demographic but it's there okay it's, it's there so what?
00:17:50.280 --> 00:17:50.422
now?
00:17:50.422 --> 00:17:56.071
You said you disagree with 90% of the protesters, like what they're protesting.
00:17:56.071 --> 00:17:57.590
What is it that you disagree with?
00:17:57.590 --> 00:17:58.416
That they're protesting.
00:17:59.540 --> 00:18:00.542
I disagree with.
00:18:00.542 --> 00:18:08.999
I'd say like the thing that they all have consensus on, like across the extremes to the nuanced, is they want divestment.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:09.700
Right.
00:18:10.582 --> 00:18:11.265
That's the main thing.
00:18:11.265 --> 00:18:14.369
Like I said, there's a broad range of like super extreme things.
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.185
That's most of what they're asking for.
00:18:16.708 --> 00:18:16.969
Mostly.
00:18:18.603 --> 00:18:19.346
You disagree with that.
00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:21.605
Yeah, I do disagree with it.
00:18:22.067 --> 00:18:22.429
Really.
00:18:23.280 --> 00:18:30.269
Because they're targeting a not just a nation, but also a people that like.
00:18:30.269 --> 00:19:04.119
So I've got a few examples here of university chances and presidents that I've had to that are negotiating with them and they're saying the things that you're asking for, the things that are literally actually out of our control, is how the funds are invested and specifically excluding companies and people that can have programs, because it's not just the divestment part, it's also having programs that have got to do with people that are Jewish, people that are from Israel.
00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.951
They're wanting to not have any of those programs anymore.
00:19:07.951 --> 00:19:09.105
I don't agree with that.
00:19:09.105 --> 00:19:11.307
It's literally racism.
00:19:11.307 --> 00:19:20.614
It's against what these people want for Palestinians.
00:19:20.614 --> 00:19:23.429
They're pushing a lot of that to Israelis.
00:19:29.223 --> 00:19:30.145
So I don't agree with that at all.
00:19:30.145 --> 00:19:44.993
Okay, so similar thing happened during the south african apartheid and there were student protesters and they were making the same, there was sanctions against south africa, and all of that to try and promote the end of apartheid.
00:19:44.993 --> 00:19:48.990
Is that something you disagree with on the part of the?
00:19:51.664 --> 00:19:58.803
No, I support their right to protest Back then, even though I wasn't even alive, I think, when it started.
00:19:58.803 --> 00:20:14.012
I wasn't, you know, even alive, I think, when it started, but I don't know the specifics, nor am I educated enough to form a strong enough opinion on the nuance of how the college people protested back then.
00:20:14.012 --> 00:20:18.136
So I honestly couldn't give you like an educated response.
00:20:18.518 --> 00:20:18.779
No, no, no.
00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:37.230
I'm mostly asking that, like the world, a lot of the world, a lot of the world, a lot of the countries, not just students, just in general, there was a movement to pretty much divest from South Africa, whether that was like the actual government, but it was also private businesses and affected private citizens.
00:20:37.230 --> 00:20:43.749
And I'm asking if you thought, because that definitely was a huge part of why the apartheid did end.
00:20:43.749 --> 00:20:55.412
I'm asking if you, if you think that's not the right thing, because for me I just wonder like what else do the students ask for that's within their realm of control, to influence?
00:20:55.412 --> 00:21:05.411
Because they can't influence israel, they can't influence that foreign government and what they're doing, but they can try and influence the university that they go to.
00:21:05.411 --> 00:21:09.530
But you're saying that you don't think that's the right approach.
00:21:09.579 --> 00:21:19.467
Because it's not just Israel, it's also Jewish individuals, jewish companies or owned by Jewish people.
00:21:19.467 --> 00:21:24.951
They're asking them to not have those associations.
00:21:24.951 --> 00:21:31.686
Literally a people, all right.
00:21:31.686 --> 00:21:38.115
So, for example, here's someone that I agree with their viewpoint.
00:21:38.115 --> 00:21:43.310
It's from the chancellor at University of California, irvine.
00:21:43.310 --> 00:21:49.366
It's Howard Gilman, and he basically writes a letter to the campus community, and here's an excerpt from it.
00:21:49.366 --> 00:22:05.686
He's basically one of the people that have not called law enforcement that's just been negotiating with them while they're still encamped on campus and apparently they're sending proposals to each other on a negotiation negotiation anyway.
00:22:05.686 --> 00:22:18.136
So he's saying this the counter proposal calls for ending numerous external partnerships that support us, our students, through scholarships and facilitate long-standing research collaborations.
00:22:18.699 --> 00:22:24.943
It also demands an end to a wide range of academic and research collaborations with Israeli organizations and individuals.
00:22:24.943 --> 00:22:39.507
This would violate fundamental principles of academic freedom and would require us to discriminate based on a person's nationality, which goes against our commitment to anti-discrimination and our principles of diversity, equity and inclusion.
00:22:39.507 --> 00:22:49.817
Further, the demands include calls for divestments that would violate university policies on investment decisions that are outside the control of any individual campus.
00:22:49.817 --> 00:23:01.221
They demand defunding the UCI police department, despite the fact that all UC campuses have adopted new community safety plans after a year-long consultation process that included student input.
00:23:01.221 --> 00:23:09.826
Additionally, the demand include the demands include actions that would infringe upon our established procedures for handling accusations of faculty misconduct.
00:23:09.826 --> 00:23:12.875
Not sure what that you know references.
00:23:12.875 --> 00:23:18.309
They also criticize our Center for Jewish Studies and its efforts to address anti-Semitism.
00:23:18.309 --> 00:23:19.393
So yeah, I agree with that.
00:23:19.819 --> 00:23:23.048
So it just sounds, though, like he's saying I can't do anything.
00:23:23.048 --> 00:23:25.113
Is that accurate, though?
00:23:25.113 --> 00:23:43.527
So I understand why he's saying I can't do these things, but it just didn't seem like he was really giving the students like anything to be like yes, we're concerned about this human rights disaster, and this is what we can do as a university to try and enact change.
00:23:43.646 --> 00:23:44.489
Just a paragraph before.
00:23:44.489 --> 00:23:47.374
I'll read this to see if that can give us any sort of color.
00:23:47.374 --> 00:23:54.577
But he said On Wednesday May 1st the university presented a proposal to the protest organizers addressing nearly all of their initial demands.
00:23:54.577 --> 00:24:00.869
Our proposal was modeled on a successful agreement at another university which our student protesters had lauded as a victory.
00:24:00.869 --> 00:24:09.761
We received a counter proposal on thursday may 2nd which introduced a range of new requests which were not part of their initial demands.
00:24:09.761 --> 00:24:23.743
While some of the new demands can easily be met, most challenges the very core of our mission to educate, to conduct research and to serve a diverse community without bias okay so it sounds like he obviously made a lot of effort that met the original demands.
00:24:23.943 --> 00:24:29.807
They got new demands and he's saying, hey, we can obviously meet some of these, but here are the things we can't.
00:24:29.807 --> 00:24:33.328
And so that's what I was just addressing was the portion that he can't.
00:24:33.328 --> 00:24:42.095
I don't know what the things that he did address, but if he's being truthful, he obviously addressed a good portion of the initial requests.
00:24:42.095 --> 00:24:44.395
He obviously addressed a good portion of the initial requests.
00:24:44.435 --> 00:25:02.634
Yeah, I find this challenging because I don't disagree, and I do think it's wise for these administrators to be more prudent, to have the bigger scope, the wider view, the taller view than the students do of the bigger picture of the implications of a lot of the demands.
00:25:02.634 --> 00:25:18.932
So I, I, but I, I do struggle because I, I'm just trying to see how this is different than what was requested and happened during this of the africa sanctions, you know what?
00:25:18.971 --> 00:25:21.141
I mean because and is it just because it's a?
00:25:21.141 --> 00:25:33.993
It's a religious minority that has previously and currently in a lot of cases, is very oppressed globally, Whereas the other people that were being sanctioned against were white oppressors.
00:25:33.993 --> 00:25:35.345
What's the difference?
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.567
I would say let's take a step back and think about what's happened over the last year or so.
00:25:39.567 --> 00:25:52.491
Israel was attacked by hamas on october 7th and it was an absolute massacre by a terrorist organization that literally sent troops into israel and killed a lot of civilians.
00:25:52.491 --> 00:26:00.951
That, that's what ignited this and took them and took hostages and and raped people and did all manners of atrocities.
00:26:00.951 --> 00:26:08.461
Now what is a country to do when a terrorist organization does that?
00:26:09.544 --> 00:26:23.374
well, I'll tell you what they're not to do, which is to starve, attack and bomb a bunch of civilians that are innocent sure, I and I I disagree with their execution of everything.
00:26:23.433 --> 00:26:29.068
I disagree with so much of the leadership of Israel and how they're dealing with it.
00:26:29.068 --> 00:26:36.704
However, I think, because of the complexity of the situation, that's why I don't go.
00:26:36.704 --> 00:26:39.632
Yes, let's ban everything Israel.
00:26:39.632 --> 00:26:46.044
Yes, if it's a Jewish company, if it's a jewish organization, no, we're going to have no relationship with him.
00:26:46.044 --> 00:26:55.241
We're going to cut them off from the rest of the world, because it's more complicated than just israel bad hamas, good gaza, good you know, it's way more complicated than that.
00:26:55.241 --> 00:27:12.031
So I I get that there's a a portion of people that are focused on the atrocities, and they're focused on hey, this is what happens to innocent people in Gaza, but there's innocent people in Israel, and so that, to me, is why there's the complexity yeah, you're right, but I just it's not on the same scale.
00:27:12.272 --> 00:27:23.875
like the innocent people in Israel are not being starved, they're not being currently attacked, they like the, the access from Hamas to the civilians in Israel.
00:27:23.875 --> 00:27:24.824
It's just not even.
00:27:24.824 --> 00:27:32.009
It's like putting a bunny in a dogfight, like, yes, could the bunny do damage?
00:27:32.009 --> 00:27:35.229
Yes, but like it's just not even the same at all.
00:27:35.229 --> 00:27:44.106
And on the scale of human rights violations by and I would say this is by Netanyahu and his administration rather than by Israel as a whole.
00:27:44.106 --> 00:27:59.407
In fact, there are so many protests in Israel itself against Netanyahu and how he's handling the situation because he's not prioritizing getting the hostages home, he's prioritizing retribution.
00:27:59.848 --> 00:28:00.912
Sure, and so is Hamas.
00:28:00.912 --> 00:28:22.994
But Hamas is a terrorist organization and netanyahu is an ally yes, so the united states government has repeatedly had meetings with israel to calm the tensions, to tell them we don't agree with how you're responding to any of this and but we still support you in the region because you are being attacked.
00:28:22.994 --> 00:28:32.204
We will support and defend you, but we do not support how you are going about yeah, dealing with this and that's, but them saying that has done nothing.
00:28:32.665 --> 00:28:36.820
It hasn't influenced netanyahu almost at all like he's continues.
00:28:37.082 --> 00:28:46.963
No, he continues to murder and kill people every day children, women well you don't and kill people every day children, women Well you don't like empirically know that it hasn't made a difference.
00:28:46.963 --> 00:28:51.805
So we know what is happening, but we don't know what could have happened if there hasn't been this pressure.
00:28:51.805 --> 00:28:55.047
We don't know, and do I think we could do more?
00:28:55.047 --> 00:28:56.181
Absolutely Do.
00:28:56.201 --> 00:29:13.926
I feel like it's a very difficult, touchy situation that our political leaders may or may not be doing the best part, or may have doing the best part or may have, I'd say, um, like a dog in the fight on how it goes, because there's also a whole lot of people in the middle east that really hate the united states and would happily bomb us if they could.
00:29:14.508 --> 00:29:19.483
So to them they see, hey, our only ally in the middle east is israel.
00:29:19.483 --> 00:29:28.116
So we need to keep supporting them and try figure out how to walk this line of supporting them but at the same time going okay, bad, no, no, no.
00:29:28.116 --> 00:29:39.125
They can't completely just be like, all right, now you're also cut off and now they have no ally in the middle east and we, you know that could turn into a much bigger, worser world war kind of a problem.
00:29:39.125 --> 00:29:47.435
So I think it, I'm trying to put myself in their shoes and in my tiny little uneducated brain.
00:29:47.435 --> 00:30:02.592
It's a very difficult situation to figure out and I and I feel like making it black and white and to um reduce it to just such a singular narrative is is not doing the situation justice.
00:30:03.394 --> 00:30:14.133
I agree, and I don't think I'm doing that, but I just I think the leaning is just slightly opposite, right, but I think we're both providing a lot of space for the complication and the nuance for it.
00:30:14.133 --> 00:30:18.736
But I just think more should be done.
00:30:19.477 --> 00:30:19.738
I agree.
00:30:20.766 --> 00:30:31.473
And so that's why I think there's this frustration on the college campuses, because anyone, who's anyone, knows that, whether you're educated or not, and especially people who are studying political science.
00:30:31.473 --> 00:30:34.573
These are what is it like?
00:30:34.573 --> 00:30:38.114
Yale and Harvard and all these, a lot of these are Ivy League educations.
00:30:38.114 --> 00:30:40.811
These are people studying international relations, political science.
00:30:40.811 --> 00:30:50.511
Not all of them A bunch of them are dumb, but I'm saying everyone can see that something more could and should be done and that, like we cannot, it's.
00:30:50.511 --> 00:31:07.570
It feels at this point like kind of if we were, if germany was the same thing back in world war ii, and we're like, oh, and like you guys really shouldn't be doing the hol, like really this is wrong, this is genocide, like really you shouldn't do it.
00:31:07.570 --> 00:31:08.912
That's kind of how it feels.
00:31:08.912 --> 00:31:11.494
We're like we're kind of allowing a genocide to happen.
00:31:11.494 --> 00:31:21.553
We are, and really all we're doing is like really you really shouldn't do it, don't make us do anything, like don't do it, but it's still continuing.
00:31:25.586 --> 00:31:33.512
See that to me sounds like it's reductive that you're saying that what's happening is a Holocaust-type genocide happening there right now, which is not at all on the same level.
00:31:33.532 --> 00:31:36.057
It's not a Holocaust-type genocide, but it is a genocide.
00:31:37.268 --> 00:31:38.353
So I mean it's complicated.
00:31:38.353 --> 00:31:45.588
You've got a whole lot of Middle East countries that are supporting Hamas through lots of underground money coming from Iran.
00:31:45.588 --> 00:31:51.835
Coming from of underground money coming from iran, coming from saudi arabia, coming from pakistan, coming from all over that, just not.
00:31:52.175 --> 00:31:54.268
None of that is the palestinians fault.
00:31:54.348 --> 00:32:03.288
It's a monster exactly well, and hamas uses palestinians as what at shields they bomb their own hospital, they bomb their own people.
00:32:03.730 --> 00:32:11.432
So and then they blame it on, so does israel, but then they bomb the hospitals, blame bomb the people but they're blaming it on israel, when it's not always israel.
00:32:11.452 --> 00:32:20.445
So I'm trying to say that it's super complicated and it's super difficult and to just be like, hey, okay, cool, we're just not gonna have any support for israel at all I don't think.
00:32:20.926 --> 00:32:21.847
I'm not asking for that.
00:32:21.847 --> 00:32:22.789
I haven't talked about it.
00:32:22.789 --> 00:32:24.291
That's what the protesters are, all of them.
00:32:24.471 --> 00:32:31.126
Yes, some protesters are asking for that the majority of the, the narrative that's across the board is that piece.
00:32:31.126 --> 00:32:34.491
So that's, that's the.
00:32:34.491 --> 00:32:35.594
That's their main messaging.
00:32:35.594 --> 00:32:41.608
That's why they're encamping on the, the college campuses.
00:32:41.608 --> 00:32:43.953
That's why they're taking over buildings.
00:32:45.116 --> 00:33:00.257
Yeah, and again it's whether it's whether it's short-sighted or not, whether it's it's missing the mark or not, they are not okay with what's happening in Gaza and there's nothing else that they can do about it.
00:33:00.257 --> 00:33:01.930
Sure, but demand something.
00:33:01.930 --> 00:33:10.825
And especially if you're getting into a protest where you're making demands, like you always have to shoot way past because you're going to land somewhere in the middle.
00:33:10.944 --> 00:33:14.733
That's like negotiation 101 I'm very happy with how it's happened.
00:33:14.733 --> 00:33:31.015
I'm happy that they protested, I'm happy that if, when they went over the line that the college campuses for the most part didn't get law enforcement involved and has tried to negotiate them, and then when things have gone like just when you're explaining the summary at the beginning, and when things have gone too far, they've gotten law enforcement and no one's died.
00:33:31.015 --> 00:33:33.650
There's been very, very small, minor injuries.
00:33:33.650 --> 00:33:37.136
Everything's gone like and how you'd hope the system would work.
00:33:37.136 --> 00:34:05.819
And the positive, like I said, is here's a positive change is that they've been able to push the conversation around the nation, around the conversation about our relationship with Israel, which I think is a good thing, because I think it should be challenged and I think there should be more of us trying to have a vocal opinion about how we're managing that relationship and it's not just left to whatever interests our politicians have.
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:07.266
You know that.
00:34:07.326 --> 00:34:21.416
That's, I think it's all positive yeah, I just can't really think of a time in which there were student protests like this, where the student protesters were not right.
00:34:21.416 --> 00:34:40.876
Looking back and that gives me pause, like with situations like this where I'm just like again, maybe the methodology or with what they're asking is wrong, but the moral, the the morality around it, like the protesters are right what are they right about?
00:34:41.778 --> 00:34:42.059
all right.
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:48.094
They're right about what's happening in gaza being wrong and there being no justification for it, because there isn't.
00:34:48.094 --> 00:35:00.291
There isn't justification for targeting civilians, for making women and children and innocents be homeless, for just because they're like, we're not going to allow them to use people as a shield.
00:35:00.291 --> 00:35:03.478
They use them as as fodder, like it's just.
00:35:03.478 --> 00:35:04.422
It isn't right.
00:35:04.422 --> 00:35:08.072
There isn't a justification for how Israel has handled the situation.
00:35:08.072 --> 00:35:09.255
It's been wrong.
00:35:09.945 --> 00:35:15.744
Yeah, no, that part is right, but there's so much of what they're demanding that isn't right.
00:35:15.764 --> 00:35:20.773
I know, but they're only demanding what they're demanding, because that's the only thing they can demand.
00:35:20.773 --> 00:35:27.027
They can't really change the real problem, which is how Netanyahu is handling this whole situation.
00:35:27.327 --> 00:35:32.467
They can't ask for that change, they can't ask for any of that, they can only ask for this.
00:35:32.467 --> 00:35:39.931
And I agree that and I'm glad that the administrators, as you said, have not just kind of given in to the concerns.
00:35:39.931 --> 00:35:42.717
But I do think it's not right.
00:35:42.717 --> 00:35:54.387
The whole point of these protests for Palestine is that, like, in my belief, this is Tayla, they're in the right, they're in the moral high ground for what they're asking and what they're being.
00:35:54.387 --> 00:35:57.235
Not what they're asking but why they're protesting.
00:35:57.235 --> 00:36:02.137
Like the deeper reason really isn't the divestment, it's not the the money, it's.
00:36:02.137 --> 00:36:06.512
That's not really what they would be asking if they had influence over the world.
00:36:06.512 --> 00:36:07.516
And what's really happening.
00:36:07.516 --> 00:36:30.972
What they want is for the innocent people in Gaza and the Palestinians who are being murdered in a genocide fashion to be protected and for some sort of solution to happen, and this issue was also caused in part by the West, this whole issue, and so greater responsibility needs to be taken on our part to prevent innocent bloodshed.
00:36:30.972 --> 00:36:39.030
It's not being taken, I think, to the extent that it should be, and there's just some things that, whether it makes sense or not, it's the right thing to do.
00:36:39.030 --> 00:36:49.291
Maybe that's short-sighted and that's probably why I'm not going to be a government official or someone who has any skin in the game to make any decisions like this, but that's just what I think.
00:36:52.746 --> 00:36:54.114
Thanks for listening to the Babe.
00:36:54.114 --> 00:36:55.061
What Do you Know About?
00:36:55.061 --> 00:36:55.605
Podcast.
00:36:56.146 --> 00:36:58.735
Remember to rate, subscribe and review.
00:00:10.712 --> 00:00:12.015
Welcome to Babe.
00:00:12.015 --> 00:00:16.309
What Do you Know About the podcast with your favorite husband and wife, duo Sam
00:00:16.730 --> 00:00:17.391
and Tayla.
00:00:17.391 --> 00:00:23.664
Each week we dive deep into a new subject, blending fun and seriousness to push boundaries and buttons.
00:00:24.341 --> 00:00:29.407
Get ready to expand your knowledge, challenge your perspectives and have a blast along the way.
00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:35.847
Well, it's been a hell of a two weeks.
00:00:36.609 --> 00:00:36.909
It has.
00:00:36.909 --> 00:00:39.246
I've been, I got sick finally.
00:00:39.246 --> 00:00:40.210
It's been a while.
00:00:41.341 --> 00:00:42.405
You say that with such glee.
00:00:42.405 --> 00:00:43.725
I'm so confused.
00:00:44.381 --> 00:00:49.926
Well, I was proud how long it took me to get sick so famous last words, famous, last words.
00:00:49.945 --> 00:00:53.701
I'm not getting sick anymore I know yeah it's been a couple weeks.
00:00:53.701 --> 00:00:56.767
We just sorry guys.
00:00:56.767 --> 00:01:08.188
It's just been a hell of a couple of weeks and the illness we've been dealing with is throw upy-y illnesses, bad illnesses, babies with the illnesses, sam with the illnesses.
00:01:08.649 --> 00:01:08.829
Yeah.
00:01:09.099 --> 00:01:12.751
My immune system is apparently stronger than yours because I got sick, but I didn't actually throw up.
00:01:13.641 --> 00:01:18.025
I still feel like Nope, I had food poisoning.
00:01:18.025 --> 00:01:23.890
No, you did not have food, poisoning my whole gut biome got absolutely destroyed on this go-around.
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:28.700
But your gut biome got absolutely destroyed on this go around, but your gut biome is easily destroyed.
00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:32.128
How many stomach infections have you gotten after you've gotten sick?
00:01:32.128 --> 00:01:33.051
You've had issues.
00:01:33.540 --> 00:01:35.087
Just the last two times Exactly.
00:01:35.087 --> 00:01:36.703
Yeah, but I thought I fixed it.
00:01:36.703 --> 00:01:37.326
That's the thing.
00:01:37.326 --> 00:01:40.811
Like I thought I'd been working on that so well since January.
00:01:41.180 --> 00:01:42.265
That's what they say about weight loss.
00:01:42.265 --> 00:01:43.742
It's like it takes you that long to wreck your body.
00:01:43.742 --> 00:01:44.763
It takes you that long to wreck your body.
00:01:44.763 --> 00:01:46.646
It takes you that long to build it back up.
00:01:46.646 --> 00:01:50.230
I'm sure the changes were good, but a couple months of it is not going to.
00:01:50.671 --> 00:01:53.655
Let me tell you, I ate sourdough bread today.
00:01:53.655 --> 00:01:57.268
Nice, yeah, that's all it takes.
00:01:57.268 --> 00:02:00.447
That's all it takes, yeah.
00:02:01.269 --> 00:02:01.590
What else?
00:02:03.620 --> 00:02:05.105
Did you do your?
00:02:05.305 --> 00:02:05.766
apple cider vinegar.
00:02:05.766 --> 00:02:07.251
I'm about to uh-huh, and what else?
00:02:08.603 --> 00:02:21.508
I I haven't done this in a really long time, but I was at a gas station and I was like you know what I'm feeling so much anxiety right now and I I bought a snickers bar, a snickers I don't think I've ever been around you and you bought this.
00:02:21.508 --> 00:02:35.867
No, I just I went to the gas station only to go buy a snickers bar, and I ate this snake as well, not just a normal, like the king size too oh, you were really anxious today, yeah, and it didn't help.
00:02:35.907 --> 00:02:36.870
Did you become yourself?
00:02:36.870 --> 00:02:40.443
No, it feels good, you, when you're hungry.
00:02:40.502 --> 00:02:41.063
I don't know what.
00:02:41.063 --> 00:02:45.332
The, the sugar, the dopamine, whatever that helped while I was eating it.
00:02:45.332 --> 00:02:50.227
And then afterwards I'm like, oh, now I'm also garbage, because I ate a giant Snickers bar.
00:02:54.260 --> 00:02:58.449
I had a chocolate chip cookie today after lunch at work.
00:02:58.449 --> 00:03:01.554
Oh, sorry guys, the yawning Same thing.
00:03:01.554 --> 00:03:06.942
It was really good when I was eating it and then I was like, like I just didn't need it you seen this?
00:03:07.182 --> 00:03:17.171
you see, you see my right eyes twitching I can't see anything, just twitching no guys, the pressure is building sam's gonna break if, if anything happens to him.
00:03:17.171 --> 00:03:25.813
I didn't kill him, he just died from a heart attack, from his own stress yeah, we're getting really close to being at the finish line with the, the board game.
00:03:25.813 --> 00:03:28.444
Yes, and it's just.
00:03:29.347 --> 00:03:30.228
I've never a lot.
00:03:30.628 --> 00:03:41.944
Yeah, like the thing is, I usually handle stress really well, but I think since having kids, for some reason it makes everything feel like it's the most important thing in the world.
00:03:41.944 --> 00:03:42.687
It's high stakes.
00:03:42.687 --> 00:03:51.163
It feels so high stakes all of a sudden because I've I've like lived a pretty carefree life and it doesn't really matter, like what happens to me, whatever.
00:03:52.205 --> 00:03:54.911
But right now, kids will do it to you.
00:03:54.911 --> 00:03:55.391
It's twitching.
00:03:55.391 --> 00:03:56.354
I don't see it.
00:03:56.354 --> 00:04:01.251
Anyway, we should talk about what we're going to talk about.
00:04:01.251 --> 00:04:04.122
Today should be an interesting topic.
00:04:04.122 --> 00:04:06.787
I'm going to do my little intro after I yawn.
00:04:06.787 --> 00:04:12.134
Hold, please, all right.
00:04:13.600 --> 00:04:21.365
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has reignited global outrage, with pro-Palestine protests erupting on college campuses and city streets worldwide.
00:04:21.365 --> 00:04:28.750
In the US alone, hundreds of students have been arrested, over 275 at Columbia University in New York City.
00:04:28.750 --> 00:04:34.226
These demonstrations transcend borders, with students in Paris also taking a stand in solidarity.
00:04:34.226 --> 00:04:45.771
In other places, beyond the immediate conflict, these protests tap into a deep well of frustration over human rights concerns and the ongoing Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories.
00:04:45.771 --> 00:04:56.129
Some argue that Israel's recent military actions in Gaza, which, according to the UN, resulted in a disproportionate number of Palestinian civilian casualties, are the tipping point.
00:04:56.129 --> 00:05:03.452
Others see this as part of a larger struggle for Palestinian self-determination and a just resolution for a decades-old conflict.
00:05:03.452 --> 00:05:10.209
We're going to explore reasons behind the outrage, the demands of protesters, and how governance and law enforcement and universities are responding.
00:05:10.209 --> 00:05:13.514
So, babe, what do you know about the protests for Palestine?
00:05:13.855 --> 00:05:14.317
A little bit.
00:05:14.317 --> 00:05:15.019
You know what.
00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:28.425
I'm actually glad that we didn't do this recording a week ago or whatever, because they kind of feel like it's I don't't know, the words run its course, but we now know like we're further along a full, a more fuller story.
00:05:28.425 --> 00:05:35.992
So, yeah, I'm happy about that, because it would have been a lot of just like well, here's my opinion yeah well, I guess that's what we do.
00:05:35.992 --> 00:05:36.841
That's a podcast.
00:05:37.824 --> 00:05:46.151
Here's my opinion yeah, but I agree like there's been more development since last week when we were going to record this, which I think will be interesting to talk about.
00:05:46.319 --> 00:06:09.113
So I'm going to use my favorite person ever, Sharon McMann's some of her updates on what has been going on and I love her information so much because she reads at least 12 different news sources from the left all the way to the central and to the right and gives pretty good fact-based summaries of things at least 12 different news sources from the left all the way to the central and to the right and gives pretty good fact-based summaries of things also.
00:06:09.134 --> 00:06:16.336
I'm actually a fan of her as well, because she pushes for basically we're getting money out of politics and is very centrist.
00:06:16.336 --> 00:06:17.721
Yes, she's very centrist.
00:06:17.721 --> 00:06:17.940
Which?
00:06:17.940 --> 00:06:27.550
At least yeah, and nuanced centrist nuanced and that's pretty rare for someone on social media these days, especially in the political space.
00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.108
And especially in a successful way at all.
00:06:30.108 --> 00:06:34.060
Goodness, gracious me, okay.
00:06:34.081 --> 00:06:41.591
So here's some of the you won't get me to yawn, Like every single time you're yawning, it's like invoking like a yawn response, but I'm not gonna do it.
00:06:41.699 --> 00:06:47.278
I'm very sensitive to like yawn contagion, very sensitive to it.
00:06:47.278 --> 00:06:49.026
I will, I will.
00:06:49.026 --> 00:06:53.951
He's just do stop, okay, okay.
00:06:53.951 --> 00:06:56.569
So Columbia has been the big universe Stop.
00:06:56.569 --> 00:07:10.088
Columbia's been the the I would say one of the college campus protests that has received a lot of ammunition is the wrong way to put it.
00:07:10.088 --> 00:07:13.454
A lot of support and a lot of reporting.
00:07:13.473 --> 00:07:17.223
A lot of support and a lot of reporting, a lot of attention a lot of attention, goodness gracious me.
00:07:17.785 --> 00:07:19.108
So this was.
00:07:19.108 --> 00:07:23.480
I think this was around the the 29th of april.
00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:32.447
The columbia's administration had told protesters that they had to leave an encampment that was there on the campus and said that they would suspend students who refused to leave.
00:07:32.447 --> 00:07:47.071
But after midnight, so around midnight on the 30th of April, protesters entered Hamilton Hall, which is an academic building, chanting Free Palestine, and they stacked chairs and tables across the doors to block the entrances and hung a Palestinian flag out the window.
00:07:47.071 --> 00:07:55.213
And then at 2 am, the group that organized the encampment on social media said that they would stay there until Columbia responded to their demands.
00:07:55.213 --> 00:08:09.050
The administration closed the campus to everyone except for students who live on campus and those who provide essential services, and shut down all entrances except for one to the campus, and the students occupied that building well into the morning.
00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:17.286
There's also pro-Palestinian protesters who occupied the library at Portland State, and campus was also shut down there.
00:08:17.286 --> 00:08:38.533
Protesters also took over a building at Cal Poly, humboldt, including the president's office, and the university closed that campus and then they had later that day cleared the building with law enforcement and arrested 35 people who would face charges of unlawful assembly, vandalism, conspiracy and others and disciplinary action from the school, so on.
00:08:38.533 --> 00:08:43.538
The third as of the 30th of april, nearly 80 people were arrested at the university of texas.
00:08:43.538 --> 00:08:45.687
Another 80 were arrested at virginia tech.
00:08:45.687 --> 00:08:48.899
Dozens more were arrested at schools in utah, virginia and new jersey.
00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:51.244
And the universities say they would.
00:08:51.244 --> 00:08:56.474
They are saying that they always warn the students to disperse before calling in police enforcement.
00:08:56.474 --> 00:09:04.706
I think for the most part the school administration wants to avoid involving the police as much as possible, because typically that escalates the situations.
00:09:04.706 --> 00:09:23.740
But 30 people were also arrested at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill campus, and Northwestern University was one of the universities that reached an agreement with their students to allow them to continue protesting, but they had to remove or tense and unapproved loudspeakers, and that was something that they agreed to.
00:09:24.763 --> 00:09:29.051
So why are they protesting beyond just the the conflict?
00:09:29.051 --> 00:09:36.148
So the biggest thing that protesters seem to want from the universities is for them to stop profiting from investments that are tied to israel.
00:09:36.148 --> 00:09:45.568
So an example of that is that universities invest money into funds that contain, for example, defense contractors and those defense contractors whose weapons are sent to israel.
00:09:45.568 --> 00:09:59.331
They want the universities to stop investing to help create a ceasefire in gaza, and so the students are not expecting the schools to be responsible for what's happening in Gaza.
00:09:59.331 --> 00:10:03.840
They obviously know that an individual university cannot change the actions of a foreign government.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:20.269
So what they are asking their schools to do is to divest, which is essentially to get rid of investments in companies that have relationships with Israel, because that's how most universities kind of keep, that's how they invest their money and become profitable.
00:10:20.269 --> 00:10:20.750
Thoughts from you.
00:10:20.750 --> 00:10:34.183
I'm going to get some buy-in from you before I give some more updated statistics from a few days after that initial thoughts on what you've presented so far is pretty much par for the course, what you would expect.
00:10:34.465 --> 00:10:46.841
You know, students rightfully have free speech and can protest things and, can you know, want change for things, but then cross the line and start to take over the building.
00:10:46.841 --> 00:10:50.928
Yeah, take over the building yeah, and so that that's not free speech anymore.
00:10:50.928 --> 00:11:05.547
And so I like that, because I was reading some interactions between the chancellors and university leadership how they've been trying to negotiate with them to disperse before getting law enforcement.
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:19.191
That seems to be the most common thing that happened yeah, but then obviously law enforcement was, you know, required to get rid of some of the encampments and people taking over buildings and happen.
00:11:19.191 --> 00:11:21.567
I mean, that's all like good, that's due process.
00:11:21.567 --> 00:11:23.075
I wouldn't say called due process, but it's.
00:11:23.075 --> 00:11:27.727
It's how you expect the system to work and I think that's it's working in a in a good way.
00:11:27.727 --> 00:11:31.690
So one people have the right to protest, two people cross the line.
00:11:31.690 --> 00:11:37.308
Three they've been asked to not cross that line for when they've not followed direction.
00:11:37.308 --> 00:11:38.211
May please?
00:11:38.672 --> 00:11:41.605
stop doing that law enforcement all good, happy.
00:11:41.986 --> 00:11:44.994
Two thumbs up, okay, that's how I feel okay.
00:11:46.297 --> 00:12:00.010
so these protests started out, as for the most part, pretty peaceful, but last thursday the police cleared a pro-palestinian encampment at the university of california, la, and they arrested dozens of protesters.
00:12:00.010 --> 00:12:09.591
The police had previously been to the campus the day before to break up fights between pro-palestinian protesters and a group of counter protesters who came to tear down the encampment.
00:12:09.591 --> 00:12:13.350
So that's a problem too, is like vigilantes trying to do the police's job.
00:12:13.350 --> 00:12:18.067
But then the police returned early on Thursday morning at the request of the university.
00:12:18.067 --> 00:12:39.642
Before the police entered the encampment, ucla issued an alert asking the students to leave the area due to unlawful assembly, because they're on, not public property, and the photos and videos of the event seem to show the police using rubber bullets and flashbangs, which is a device that makes a loud noise and bright light to disorient people without a major injury within the encampment.
00:12:39.642 --> 00:12:43.711
And after nearly three hours the police reported that they had cleared the encampment.
00:12:43.711 --> 00:12:48.932
So that's one example of kind of a more violent interaction.
00:12:48.932 --> 00:12:57.823
Another, at Portland State University, students occupied a library on last Monday and they had remained there since Yesterday.
00:12:57.823 --> 00:13:04.850
The administration talked with protesters and 50 people left on their own based on those, and then the police were called to clear remaining protesters out of the building.
00:13:04.850 --> 00:13:09.388
There were still 50 to 100 inside and that situation was still ongoing.
00:13:09.388 --> 00:13:23.427
Protesters at Brown University made a deal with the administration to take down their encampment by Tuesday night if the university would hold discussions and a vote on divesting funds from companies connected to the Israeli military, and that encampment had since been removed.
00:13:23.659 --> 00:13:26.109
So here are some more updated arrests.
00:13:26.109 --> 00:13:36.025
There were 90 people arrested at Dartmouth College after setting up an encampment on the main lawn of the campus and they are facing charges including criminal trespass and resisting arrest.
00:13:36.025 --> 00:13:43.780
17 people were arrested at University of Texas, dallas after police cleared the encampment there and they're going to be charged with criminal trespass.
00:13:43.780 --> 00:13:49.322
12 people were arrested at University of New Hampshire and charged with disorderly conduct and trespassing.
00:13:49.322 --> 00:13:55.990
At least 15 people were arrested at Fordham University in the Bronx after setting up an encampment inside one of the campus buildings.
00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:00.211
That's not a comprehensive list by any stretch.
00:14:00.211 --> 00:14:09.025
There was some body cam footage of the students at Columbia who had taken over a Hamilton Hall who had still been in there for over 24 hours before being cleared by police.
00:14:09.025 --> 00:14:24.186
Columbia was not holding exams and was holding a remote graduation and that was a definitely a more kind of I don't know if violent is the right way to put it, but it was more like the students were.
00:14:24.186 --> 00:14:32.625
They were not attacking the police, but kind of they were like someone was using a big water bottle canister to like bop them on the head, pass their riot gear and stuff.
00:14:32.625 --> 00:14:34.225
So super unideal.
00:14:34.780 --> 00:14:39.852
And then the last kind of updates that I'll give logistically before we kind of dive into some things.
00:14:39.852 --> 00:14:41.667
This is from yesterday.
00:14:41.667 --> 00:14:55.866
Students at Princeton University started a hunger strike I don't know if you've heard of this yet and they said that the hunger strike will go on until the school meets with the students to discuss their demands for disclosure, divestment and a full academic and cultural boycott of Israel.
00:14:55.866 --> 00:15:03.552
They wanted the charges also dropped against students who were previously arrested for protesting, which was at least 17 undergraduate students.
00:15:03.552 --> 00:15:09.437
Oh, no, no, sorry, 17 undergraduate students are taking part in the strike, according to the school's newspaper.
00:15:09.437 --> 00:15:18.505
Princeton responded by saying the school cares for its students' well-being and the students involved are being monitored by physicians, and I haven't heard any updates from there.
00:15:18.505 --> 00:15:19.369
There probably are some.
00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:29.000
And then a couple last ones 25 people were arrested at University of Virginia on Saturday after clearing an encampment, and the police did use tear gas on those protesters.
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:33.982
And then on Saturday protesters disrupted the University of Michigan's commencement ceremony.
00:15:33.982 --> 00:15:46.370
And then Columbia University yesterday morning canceled its main university-wide commencement ceremony because of security concerns, and it's going to still try hold smaller events and individual school ceremonies around the city.
00:15:46.370 --> 00:15:51.086
Over 200 protesters were arrested after that bullying takeover.
00:15:51.086 --> 00:15:56.727
And then Emory University in Atlanta is also moving its ceremony off campus to a different location in Duluth, georgia.
00:15:56.727 --> 00:16:05.203
There at UCLA, the university chancellor, jean Bloch, said in a statement that the school is going to create an office of campus safety to guide the school through.
00:16:05.203 --> 00:16:08.152
Quote tense times, close quote.
00:16:08.152 --> 00:16:16.313
And so the numbers as of yesterday were that over 2,200 people have been arrested on college campuses in the past two weeks.
00:16:16.313 --> 00:16:19.265
Thoughts on any of that?
00:16:21.880 --> 00:16:58.889
I was having the thought that one of the positives that has come from this would be that they have been able to effectively change the conversation nationwide, talking about, maybe, some of the nuance behind how and in what ways do we support israel as a country and then as a people, and what things can we do to have like not just straight up, hey, yeah, you just have complete support because you're israel.
00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:00.312
Here's all the money, here's all the support.
00:17:00.312 --> 00:17:01.561
Do what you need to to now.
00:17:02.042 --> 00:17:31.978
I think there creates a conversation where there's, like you know, sure maybe the government's not gonna like yeah yeah, sure I don't agree with how you protested sure I don't and you know the consequences are going to come from that for some of them and sure I don't agree with like 90 of what they are protesting, but there's a part of it that is very, the very important, because the protesters have a range of like what they're unhappy with.
00:17:31.978 --> 00:17:36.208
Like you have some protesters that are just straight up like no israel for anything.
00:17:36.208 --> 00:17:37.770
Israel is bad.
00:17:37.770 --> 00:17:40.143
You know, hamas is great.
00:17:40.143 --> 00:17:49.932
There's literally people that have been protesting and pushing that narrative yeah, I would say that's a much smaller demographic but it's there okay it's, it's there so what?
00:17:50.280 --> 00:17:50.422
now?
00:17:50.422 --> 00:17:56.071
You said you disagree with 90% of the protesters, like what they're protesting.
00:17:56.071 --> 00:17:57.590
What is it that you disagree with?
00:17:57.590 --> 00:17:58.416
That they're protesting.
00:17:59.540 --> 00:18:00.542
I disagree with.
00:18:00.542 --> 00:18:08.999
I'd say like the thing that they all have consensus on, like across the extremes to the nuanced, is they want divestment.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:09.700
Right.
00:18:10.582 --> 00:18:11.265
That's the main thing.
00:18:11.265 --> 00:18:14.369
Like I said, there's a broad range of like super extreme things.
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.185
That's most of what they're asking for.
00:18:16.708 --> 00:18:16.969
Mostly.
00:18:18.603 --> 00:18:19.346
You disagree with that.
00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:21.605
Yeah, I do disagree with it.
00:18:22.067 --> 00:18:22.429
Really.
00:18:23.280 --> 00:18:30.269
Because they're targeting a not just a nation, but also a people that like.
00:18:30.269 --> 00:19:04.119
So I've got a few examples here of university chances and presidents that I've had to that are negotiating with them and they're saying the things that you're asking for, the things that are literally actually out of our control, is how the funds are invested and specifically excluding companies and people that can have programs, because it's not just the divestment part, it's also having programs that have got to do with people that are Jewish, people that are from Israel.
00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.951
They're wanting to not have any of those programs anymore.
00:19:07.951 --> 00:19:09.105
I don't agree with that.
00:19:09.105 --> 00:19:11.307
It's literally racism.
00:19:11.307 --> 00:19:20.614
It's against what these people want for Palestinians.
00:19:20.614 --> 00:19:23.429
They're pushing a lot of that to Israelis.
00:19:29.223 --> 00:19:30.145
So I don't agree with that at all.
00:19:30.145 --> 00:19:44.993
Okay, so similar thing happened during the south african apartheid and there were student protesters and they were making the same, there was sanctions against south africa, and all of that to try and promote the end of apartheid.
00:19:44.993 --> 00:19:48.990
Is that something you disagree with on the part of the?
00:19:51.664 --> 00:19:58.803
No, I support their right to protest Back then, even though I wasn't even alive, I think, when it started.
00:19:58.803 --> 00:20:14.012
I wasn't, you know, even alive, I think, when it started, but I don't know the specifics, nor am I educated enough to form a strong enough opinion on the nuance of how the college people protested back then.
00:20:14.012 --> 00:20:18.136
So I honestly couldn't give you like an educated response.
00:20:18.518 --> 00:20:18.779
No, no, no.
00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:37.230
I'm mostly asking that, like the world, a lot of the world, a lot of the world, a lot of the countries, not just students, just in general, there was a movement to pretty much divest from South Africa, whether that was like the actual government, but it was also private businesses and affected private citizens.
00:20:37.230 --> 00:20:43.749
And I'm asking if you thought, because that definitely was a huge part of why the apartheid did end.
00:20:43.749 --> 00:20:55.412
I'm asking if you, if you think that's not the right thing, because for me I just wonder like what else do the students ask for that's within their realm of control, to influence?
00:20:55.412 --> 00:21:05.411
Because they can't influence israel, they can't influence that foreign government and what they're doing, but they can try and influence the university that they go to.
00:21:05.411 --> 00:21:09.530
But you're saying that you don't think that's the right approach.
00:21:09.579 --> 00:21:19.467
Because it's not just Israel, it's also Jewish individuals, jewish companies or owned by Jewish people.
00:21:19.467 --> 00:21:24.951
They're asking them to not have those associations.
00:21:24.951 --> 00:21:31.686
Literally a people, all right.
00:21:31.686 --> 00:21:38.115
So, for example, here's someone that I agree with their viewpoint.
00:21:38.115 --> 00:21:43.310
It's from the chancellor at University of California, irvine.
00:21:43.310 --> 00:21:49.366
It's Howard Gilman, and he basically writes a letter to the campus community, and here's an excerpt from it.
00:21:49.366 --> 00:22:05.686
He's basically one of the people that have not called law enforcement that's just been negotiating with them while they're still encamped on campus and apparently they're sending proposals to each other on a negotiation negotiation anyway.
00:22:05.686 --> 00:22:18.136
So he's saying this the counter proposal calls for ending numerous external partnerships that support us, our students, through scholarships and facilitate long-standing research collaborations.
00:22:18.699 --> 00:22:24.943
It also demands an end to a wide range of academic and research collaborations with Israeli organizations and individuals.
00:22:24.943 --> 00:22:39.507
This would violate fundamental principles of academic freedom and would require us to discriminate based on a person's nationality, which goes against our commitment to anti-discrimination and our principles of diversity, equity and inclusion.
00:22:39.507 --> 00:22:49.817
Further, the demands include calls for divestments that would violate university policies on investment decisions that are outside the control of any individual campus.
00:22:49.817 --> 00:23:01.221
They demand defunding the UCI police department, despite the fact that all UC campuses have adopted new community safety plans after a year-long consultation process that included student input.
00:23:01.221 --> 00:23:09.826
Additionally, the demand include the demands include actions that would infringe upon our established procedures for handling accusations of faculty misconduct.
00:23:09.826 --> 00:23:12.875
Not sure what that you know references.
00:23:12.875 --> 00:23:18.309
They also criticize our Center for Jewish Studies and its efforts to address anti-Semitism.
00:23:18.309 --> 00:23:19.393
So yeah, I agree with that.
00:23:19.819 --> 00:23:23.048
So it just sounds, though, like he's saying I can't do anything.
00:23:23.048 --> 00:23:25.113
Is that accurate, though?
00:23:25.113 --> 00:23:43.527
So I understand why he's saying I can't do these things, but it just didn't seem like he was really giving the students like anything to be like yes, we're concerned about this human rights disaster, and this is what we can do as a university to try and enact change.
00:23:43.646 --> 00:23:44.489
Just a paragraph before.
00:23:44.489 --> 00:23:47.374
I'll read this to see if that can give us any sort of color.
00:23:47.374 --> 00:23:54.577
But he said On Wednesday May 1st the university presented a proposal to the protest organizers addressing nearly all of their initial demands.
00:23:54.577 --> 00:24:00.869
Our proposal was modeled on a successful agreement at another university which our student protesters had lauded as a victory.
00:24:00.869 --> 00:24:09.761
We received a counter proposal on thursday may 2nd which introduced a range of new requests which were not part of their initial demands.
00:24:09.761 --> 00:24:23.743
While some of the new demands can easily be met, most challenges the very core of our mission to educate, to conduct research and to serve a diverse community without bias okay so it sounds like he obviously made a lot of effort that met the original demands.
00:24:23.943 --> 00:24:29.807
They got new demands and he's saying, hey, we can obviously meet some of these, but here are the things we can't.
00:24:29.807 --> 00:24:33.328
And so that's what I was just addressing was the portion that he can't.
00:24:33.328 --> 00:24:42.095
I don't know what the things that he did address, but if he's being truthful, he obviously addressed a good portion of the initial requests.
00:24:42.095 --> 00:24:44.395
He obviously addressed a good portion of the initial requests.
00:24:44.435 --> 00:25:02.634
Yeah, I find this challenging because I don't disagree, and I do think it's wise for these administrators to be more prudent, to have the bigger scope, the wider view, the taller view than the students do of the bigger picture of the implications of a lot of the demands.
00:25:02.634 --> 00:25:18.932
So I, I, but I, I do struggle because I, I'm just trying to see how this is different than what was requested and happened during this of the africa sanctions, you know what?
00:25:18.971 --> 00:25:21.141
I mean because and is it just because it's a?
00:25:21.141 --> 00:25:33.993
It's a religious minority that has previously and currently in a lot of cases, is very oppressed globally, Whereas the other people that were being sanctioned against were white oppressors.
00:25:33.993 --> 00:25:35.345
What's the difference?
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.567
I would say let's take a step back and think about what's happened over the last year or so.
00:25:39.567 --> 00:25:52.491
Israel was attacked by hamas on october 7th and it was an absolute massacre by a terrorist organization that literally sent troops into israel and killed a lot of civilians.
00:25:52.491 --> 00:26:00.951
That, that's what ignited this and took them and took hostages and and raped people and did all manners of atrocities.
00:26:00.951 --> 00:26:08.461
Now what is a country to do when a terrorist organization does that?
00:26:09.544 --> 00:26:23.374
well, I'll tell you what they're not to do, which is to starve, attack and bomb a bunch of civilians that are innocent sure, I and I I disagree with their execution of everything.
00:26:23.433 --> 00:26:29.068
I disagree with so much of the leadership of Israel and how they're dealing with it.
00:26:29.068 --> 00:26:36.704
However, I think, because of the complexity of the situation, that's why I don't go.
00:26:36.704 --> 00:26:39.632
Yes, let's ban everything Israel.
00:26:39.632 --> 00:26:46.044
Yes, if it's a Jewish company, if it's a jewish organization, no, we're going to have no relationship with him.
00:26:46.044 --> 00:26:55.241
We're going to cut them off from the rest of the world, because it's more complicated than just israel bad hamas, good gaza, good you know, it's way more complicated than that.
00:26:55.241 --> 00:27:12.031
So I I get that there's a a portion of people that are focused on the atrocities, and they're focused on hey, this is what happens to innocent people in Gaza, but there's innocent people in Israel, and so that, to me, is why there's the complexity yeah, you're right, but I just it's not on the same scale.
00:27:12.272 --> 00:27:23.875
like the innocent people in Israel are not being starved, they're not being currently attacked, they like the, the access from Hamas to the civilians in Israel.
00:27:23.875 --> 00:27:24.824
It's just not even.
00:27:24.824 --> 00:27:32.009
It's like putting a bunny in a dogfight, like, yes, could the bunny do damage?
00:27:32.009 --> 00:27:35.229
Yes, but like it's just not even the same at all.
00:27:35.229 --> 00:27:44.106
And on the scale of human rights violations by and I would say this is by Netanyahu and his administration rather than by Israel as a whole.
00:27:44.106 --> 00:27:59.407
In fact, there are so many protests in Israel itself against Netanyahu and how he's handling the situation because he's not prioritizing getting the hostages home, he's prioritizing retribution.
00:27:59.848 --> 00:28:00.912
Sure, and so is Hamas.
00:28:00.912 --> 00:28:22.994
But Hamas is a terrorist organization and netanyahu is an ally yes, so the united states government has repeatedly had meetings with israel to calm the tensions, to tell them we don't agree with how you're responding to any of this and but we still support you in the region because you are being attacked.
00:28:22.994 --> 00:28:32.204
We will support and defend you, but we do not support how you are going about yeah, dealing with this and that's, but them saying that has done nothing.
00:28:32.665 --> 00:28:36.820
It hasn't influenced netanyahu almost at all like he's continues.
00:28:37.082 --> 00:28:46.963
No, he continues to murder and kill people every day children, women well you don't and kill people every day children, women Well you don't like empirically know that it hasn't made a difference.
00:28:46.963 --> 00:28:51.805
So we know what is happening, but we don't know what could have happened if there hasn't been this pressure.
00:28:51.805 --> 00:28:55.047
We don't know, and do I think we could do more?
00:28:55.047 --> 00:28:56.181
Absolutely Do.
00:28:56.201 --> 00:29:13.926
I feel like it's a very difficult, touchy situation that our political leaders may or may not be doing the best part, or may have doing the best part or may have, I'd say, um, like a dog in the fight on how it goes, because there's also a whole lot of people in the middle east that really hate the united states and would happily bomb us if they could.
00:29:14.508 --> 00:29:19.483
So to them they see, hey, our only ally in the middle east is israel.
00:29:19.483 --> 00:29:28.116
So we need to keep supporting them and try figure out how to walk this line of supporting them but at the same time going okay, bad, no, no, no.
00:29:28.116 --> 00:29:39.125
They can't completely just be like, all right, now you're also cut off and now they have no ally in the middle east and we, you know that could turn into a much bigger, worser world war kind of a problem.
00:29:39.125 --> 00:29:47.435
So I think it, I'm trying to put myself in their shoes and in my tiny little uneducated brain.
00:29:47.435 --> 00:30:02.592
It's a very difficult situation to figure out and I and I feel like making it black and white and to um reduce it to just such a singular narrative is is not doing the situation justice.
00:30:03.394 --> 00:30:14.133
I agree, and I don't think I'm doing that, but I just I think the leaning is just slightly opposite, right, but I think we're both providing a lot of space for the complication and the nuance for it.
00:30:14.133 --> 00:30:18.736
But I just think more should be done.
00:30:19.477 --> 00:30:19.738
I agree.
00:30:20.766 --> 00:30:31.473
And so that's why I think there's this frustration on the college campuses, because anyone, who's anyone, knows that, whether you're educated or not, and especially people who are studying political science.
00:30:31.473 --> 00:30:34.573
These are what is it like?
00:30:34.573 --> 00:30:38.114
Yale and Harvard and all these, a lot of these are Ivy League educations.
00:30:38.114 --> 00:30:40.811
These are people studying international relations, political science.
00:30:40.811 --> 00:30:50.511
Not all of them A bunch of them are dumb, but I'm saying everyone can see that something more could and should be done and that, like we cannot, it's.
00:30:50.511 --> 00:31:07.570
It feels at this point like kind of if we were, if germany was the same thing back in world war ii, and we're like, oh, and like you guys really shouldn't be doing the hol, like really this is wrong, this is genocide, like really you shouldn't do it.
00:31:07.570 --> 00:31:08.912
That's kind of how it feels.
00:31:08.912 --> 00:31:11.494
We're like we're kind of allowing a genocide to happen.
00:31:11.494 --> 00:31:21.553
We are, and really all we're doing is like really you really shouldn't do it, don't make us do anything, like don't do it, but it's still continuing.
00:31:25.586 --> 00:31:33.512
See that to me sounds like it's reductive that you're saying that what's happening is a Holocaust-type genocide happening there right now, which is not at all on the same level.
00:31:33.532 --> 00:31:36.057
It's not a Holocaust-type genocide, but it is a genocide.
00:31:37.268 --> 00:31:38.353
So I mean it's complicated.
00:31:38.353 --> 00:31:45.588
You've got a whole lot of Middle East countries that are supporting Hamas through lots of underground money coming from Iran.
00:31:45.588 --> 00:31:51.835
Coming from of underground money coming from iran, coming from saudi arabia, coming from pakistan, coming from all over that, just not.
00:31:52.175 --> 00:31:54.268
None of that is the palestinians fault.
00:31:54.348 --> 00:32:03.288
It's a monster exactly well, and hamas uses palestinians as what at shields they bomb their own hospital, they bomb their own people.
00:32:03.730 --> 00:32:11.432
So and then they blame it on, so does israel, but then they bomb the hospitals, blame bomb the people but they're blaming it on israel, when it's not always israel.
00:32:11.452 --> 00:32:20.445
So I'm trying to say that it's super complicated and it's super difficult and to just be like, hey, okay, cool, we're just not gonna have any support for israel at all I don't think.
00:32:20.926 --> 00:32:21.847
I'm not asking for that.
00:32:21.847 --> 00:32:22.789
I haven't talked about it.
00:32:22.789 --> 00:32:24.291
That's what the protesters are, all of them.
00:32:24.471 --> 00:32:31.126
Yes, some protesters are asking for that the majority of the, the narrative that's across the board is that piece.
00:32:31.126 --> 00:32:34.491
So that's, that's the.
00:32:34.491 --> 00:32:35.594
That's their main messaging.
00:32:35.594 --> 00:32:41.608
That's why they're encamping on the, the college campuses.
00:32:41.608 --> 00:32:43.953
That's why they're taking over buildings.
00:32:45.116 --> 00:33:00.257
Yeah, and again it's whether it's whether it's short-sighted or not, whether it's it's missing the mark or not, they are not okay with what's happening in Gaza and there's nothing else that they can do about it.
00:33:00.257 --> 00:33:01.930
Sure, but demand something.
00:33:01.930 --> 00:33:10.825
And especially if you're getting into a protest where you're making demands, like you always have to shoot way past because you're going to land somewhere in the middle.
00:33:10.944 --> 00:33:14.733
That's like negotiation 101 I'm very happy with how it's happened.
00:33:14.733 --> 00:33:31.015
I'm happy that they protested, I'm happy that if, when they went over the line that the college campuses for the most part didn't get law enforcement involved and has tried to negotiate them, and then when things have gone like just when you're explaining the summary at the beginning, and when things have gone too far, they've gotten law enforcement and no one's died.
00:33:31.015 --> 00:33:33.650
There's been very, very small, minor injuries.
00:33:33.650 --> 00:33:37.136
Everything's gone like and how you'd hope the system would work.
00:33:37.136 --> 00:34:05.819
And the positive, like I said, is here's a positive change is that they've been able to push the conversation around the nation, around the conversation about our relationship with Israel, which I think is a good thing, because I think it should be challenged and I think there should be more of us trying to have a vocal opinion about how we're managing that relationship and it's not just left to whatever interests our politicians have.
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:07.266
You know that.
00:34:07.326 --> 00:34:21.416
That's, I think it's all positive yeah, I just can't really think of a time in which there were student protests like this, where the student protesters were not right.
00:34:21.416 --> 00:34:40.876
Looking back and that gives me pause, like with situations like this where I'm just like again, maybe the methodology or with what they're asking is wrong, but the moral, the the morality around it, like the protesters are right what are they right about?
00:34:41.778 --> 00:34:42.059
all right.
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:48.094
They're right about what's happening in gaza being wrong and there being no justification for it, because there isn't.
00:34:48.094 --> 00:35:00.291
There isn't justification for targeting civilians, for making women and children and innocents be homeless, for just because they're like, we're not going to allow them to use people as a shield.
00:35:00.291 --> 00:35:03.478
They use them as as fodder, like it's just.
00:35:03.478 --> 00:35:04.422
It isn't right.
00:35:04.422 --> 00:35:08.072
There isn't a justification for how Israel has handled the situation.
00:35:08.072 --> 00:35:09.255
It's been wrong.
00:35:09.945 --> 00:35:15.744
Yeah, no, that part is right, but there's so much of what they're demanding that isn't right.
00:35:15.764 --> 00:35:20.773
I know, but they're only demanding what they're demanding, because that's the only thing they can demand.
00:35:20.773 --> 00:35:27.027
They can't really change the real problem, which is how Netanyahu is handling this whole situation.
00:35:27.327 --> 00:35:32.467
They can't ask for that change, they can't ask for any of that, they can only ask for this.
00:35:32.467 --> 00:35:39.931
And I agree that and I'm glad that the administrators, as you said, have not just kind of given in to the concerns.
00:35:39.931 --> 00:35:42.717
But I do think it's not right.
00:35:42.717 --> 00:35:54.387
The whole point of these protests for Palestine is that, like, in my belief, this is Tayla, they're in the right, they're in the moral high ground for what they're asking and what they're being.
00:35:54.387 --> 00:35:57.235
Not what they're asking but why they're protesting.
00:35:57.235 --> 00:36:02.137
Like the deeper reason really isn't the divestment, it's not the the money, it's.
00:36:02.137 --> 00:36:06.512
That's not really what they would be asking if they had influence over the world.
00:36:06.512 --> 00:36:07.516
And what's really happening.
00:36:07.516 --> 00:36:30.972
What they want is for the innocent people in Gaza and the Palestinians who are being murdered in a genocide fashion to be protected and for some sort of solution to happen, and this issue was also caused in part by the West, this whole issue, and so greater responsibility needs to be taken on our part to prevent innocent bloodshed.
00:36:30.972 --> 00:36:39.030
It's not being taken, I think, to the extent that it should be, and there's just some things that, whether it makes sense or not, it's the right thing to do.
00:36:39.030 --> 00:36:49.291
Maybe that's short-sighted and that's probably why I'm not going to be a government official or someone who has any skin in the game to make any decisions like this, but that's just what I think.
00:36:52.746 --> 00:36:54.114
Thanks for listening to the Babe.
00:36:54.114 --> 00:36:55.061
What Do you Know About?
00:36:55.061 --> 00:36:55.605
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הצהרה: הפודקאסט והגרפיקה המוטבעים בדף זה הם מ-Sam and Tayla, שהוא רכושו של בעליו ואינו קשור או מאושר על ידי Listen Notes, Inc.
