Winemaker Interview with Daniel Brennan of Decibel Wines

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On this episode of After Wine School, Keith sits down with Daniel Brennan—Philly native, former student, and now the winemaker behind Decibel Wines in New Zealand’s Hawke’s Bay.
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From cheesesteaks in Hastings to pioneering organic vineyards and pushing Malbec into Kiwi consciousness, Danny’s journey is anything but ordinary.
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The two dive deep into terroir, winemaking culture, and the grind of selling indie wines in America—with a healthy dose of Philly sarcasm, orca sightings, and tales of global wine hustle.
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All right.
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Hey folks.
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welcome, welcome, welcome.
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This is Keith from the after Wine School podcast.
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Today I am a very, very, very, very, very, lucky that I have Daniel Brennan of Decibel Wines, who actually, is an old friend, old student.
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an old Philly native who now is a.
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Famous winemaker in, New Zealand, man.
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So, hey, in infamous, maybe infamous, maybe not Danny.
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so I'm gonna call you Danny 'cause that's how I know you man.
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Yeah.
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Could do it.
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All right.
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So, Mr.
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We actually do a, at our tasting room in Hastings, which is right in the heart of Hawkes Bay, we do a few times a year, we do it a popup, cheese steak thing.
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And it's called Danny's.
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So you definitely can call me Danny.
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People in New Zealand joke around and call me Danny sometimes too.
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because they know that's what people in Philly would call me.
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Oh, of course, of course.
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That's awesome.
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That is awesome.
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Now, I assume, How, well, okay, first off, let's just backtrack.
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Because you may actually have, we may have some, Philly issue problems here.
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Now, how are you making cheese steaks in New Zealand? And mind you, right outside of, I'm sorry, you're like the fancy part of the country.
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I have a friend who is a very accomplished chef, like worked for Peter Gordon and Oh, I like, he's like worked for some of the best, you know, kitchens in New Zealand and wineries and stuff.
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but he's kind of gone out on his own.
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He is got four kids.
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He don't wanna be working nights, all that.
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And he's a pastry chef originally by trade.
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Oh, okay.
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So he can bake bread, like amazing.
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All right.
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And, he, he bakes the bread, but it took him four tries.
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Like, I was like, no, you still don't have it.
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You know, I was like sending him Instagram videos and because, I can't get him a sample down in New Zealand.
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So I'm like, nah, this is too sweet.
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No, this is too soft.
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No, this is too hard.
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And then he finally nailed it.
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Are we still, are we still talking about bread? Yeah.
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Yeah, because you have questions that's on this podcast.
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Alright.
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Alright.
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So, but what about the, what about the Wiz or the American cheese? Like what, I mean, what, what kinda cheese are we doing here? do, we get some, sharp provolone or provolone picante.
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All right.
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And put a little bit of that, mix that in.
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'cause I do roast pork sandwich and HOAs too.
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Oh, okay.
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Alright.
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So just three sandwiches.
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Alright.
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But we have a cheese there that's kind of a softer stringier, mild cheese called em that is perfect for cheese steaks.
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All right.
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So, okay.
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you know, and I cheat a bit too because we, my buddy owns this place called the Organic Butcher, which is like a Highend butcher shop, and he Oh, okay.
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He gets me like, you know, really thin shaved rump for the cheese steaks.
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All right.
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And so it's like, it's pretty next level.
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It's good.
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I don't make any money on this thing.
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It's just like a thing.
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This sounds very expensive.
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And also Yeah, no, I was just assuming you're importing, kangaroo from Australia.
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No, no, no.
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I mean, yeah, no, that's a good idea though.
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we don't like any much Aussie stuff in New Zealand anyway, so Yeah, it's a bit of a chip on our shoulder, you know, it's a bit of like the Canada, US thing, you know what I mean? Oh, Well, yeah.
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New Zealand is actually better than Australia.
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Well, you know, I, but the hard thing is, is that you are so much smaller.
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Exactly.
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And you also, I don't think you drink as much.
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It's Yeah.
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Trust me, it's close.
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It's definitely more Per capita than here.
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but they, but you're right in that they do own all our grocery stores and banks and things like that, so they kind of got us by the balls.
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actually, so all, No, we don't think they're smart enough to have the, those kind of conspiracies worked out, you know? is fantastic.
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I do love the fact that we are just gonna like shit on Australians for like, the next hour.
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That is fantastic.
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because, you know, fortunately we don't really have much of a, a listenership there, so, you know, we can do anything.
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I'll help bump that up for you.
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Yeah.
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You know what I mean? Yeah.
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We'll create some hype.
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Any press is good press.
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You know what I mean? Did you hear they were talking shit about us, Mike, because they asked the accent's like.
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Kiwi's are kind of, you know, it's like down here.
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The Australians are up Well, I can't believe you actually pulled that off.
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'cause I, I will never try that accent that is like, that is, but I live at every, my kids have kiwi accents, you Oh really? Of course they do.
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Yeah.
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That's, that's be, but they also speak Italian because her mother's Italian.
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So they'll go, they'll go, you know, mama, you know, they'll, let's say something in Italian and then switch back to a kiwi accent.
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Really? Oh.
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speak Italian with a Kiwi accent? My 9-year-old kind of does my, according to my wife.
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I barely know what they're saying half the time.
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Well, that's actually fantastic.
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That is actually, fascinating.
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did you meet your wife in Yeah, we met, down in, I used to throw a party every year with all the winemakers in May called Kiwi's Giving, which is kinda like a post harvest Thanksgiving meal.
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Yeah.
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Naturally all the, expats, we gravitate to each other.
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So I hanging out with a lot of Brits and French and Spaniards and South Americans and Oh yeah.
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You know, and when you invite, they're a bit like the Brazilians when you invite one person from France then like 20 show up, I invited this one girl, French wine makers.
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This other girl came, and then she texted me last minute and said, my friend Ma is coming.
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And I said, yeah, sure.
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I think that's a girl's name.
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We definitely want her to come, you know? Yeah.
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That was, that was back in 2012.
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So we, we've been together since and yeah.
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Oh yeah.
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she's from Leko, like right near Lake Como.
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Oh, wow.
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she's, as we would say the fancy Italians.
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But she's got somewhat, you know, nobody in here appreciated her.
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She's kind of got that blood, which is Southern, Southern, you know, her mother, you know, she's quite dark.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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She, her, her dad's got the blue eyes and, looks like he could be.
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French or Swiss or something up near that border.
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But her mom's side of the family's definitely got the old school, like my mother's family.
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Well, and that's what like, you know, And just as the, for everyone listening, they understand this, we actually have, this is Italy is consistent like this.
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Like they, every region hates the other regions.
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Yeah, I have, I have buddy who lives in the Piedmont and every time he had to leave, he was like, oh god damn, I gotta go to, I gotta go to Italy.
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And I'm like, and then I knew a dude from Rome and, you know, he was a student here at the wine school and he was like, and he would just talk smack about, you know, anyone below the south.
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He's like, ah.
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And every time they would say, they're like, oh, I gotta go to Rome.
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And like, why, why, why is this it? Why is call calling, you know, something either like.
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If you're in the north, you call it, oh, I gotta go to Rome.
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Or if you're in Rome, you say, I gotta go to Italy.
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It's like, it's always this.
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Yeah.
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It's always an insult.
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pretty territorial and provincial.
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So it's not surprising.
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Nobody makes the pizza the right way in that part.
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Oh yeah.
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Or just, oh, you get winemakers just complaining about each other from other Oh, it is just like constant.
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drink all their wines.
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Because I love Italian wine so much.
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man.
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I know.
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Oh, you know, I actually, it's one of the, I just love the fact that Italian wines in the US are so popular.
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'cause I get to run an advanced Italian program like every year and a half, and I just get to pull so much cool stuff.
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There's so much there too.
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And I make it part of the project.
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It's, for the advanced Mollys, they have to find one obscure wine that I didn't talk about or pour in class.
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and I am just going out and like.
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Every weird thing, every beautiful unknown, is in class and it's the hardest thing for them to find a wine I didn't talk about or pour in class.
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it usually takes those students like three to four months to actually land on wine if you're gonna do it with a country, Italy.
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Yeah.
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'cause they've got so many weird grapes and everything.
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Oh yeah.
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And the genetic diversity is just insane.
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It just fun watching it just coming from, like chemistry and science.
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It just, it's just so much fun to look, look through this stuff.
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Yeah.
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But hey, that's Italy, New Zealand, however that you know, which I hear.
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Is making some okay wines these days.
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Is that true? We're, we are doing pretty good.
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Yeah.
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I mean, everybody obviously knows the Marlboro s Blanc and, the beast and monster that it is and Oh yeah.
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Paves the road for, you know, a lot of else that goes on in the industry.
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But, I think, you know, I hope what's happening is that, you know, with the likes of myself and a few other producers, I'm seeing more bits of Hawke's Bay and North Canterbury and Otago again.
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Danny was a, I took the, core program.
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In the early parts of our lives, you know? And in fact, actually, when I actually had, now I'm the only one who teaches the foundation program, but I had someone else teaching at that time So you're like one of the few students that I know, I still know who actually I wasn't their professor.
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like it's a weird thing.
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you were around though.
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Well, I was kicking around.
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Oh yeah.
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I'm sure I was fine, Which is amazing.
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So Yeah, I know.
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And this was back in the early when we were actually in our original, school Yeah.
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Up in fair Oh yeah.
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In Fairmount and, yeah, right next to the pizza joint.
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That's right.
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Very convenient.
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I got fat.
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Yeah.
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but anyway, around that time yeah.
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Was when the sort of second wave of New Zealand wines were coming into the US and ultimately it's what drew me to New Zealand because I was just fell in love with, particularly Martin bro Pinot Noir.
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Right.
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And, and they were.
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You know, the, the Semial Blancs and a bit of Chardonnay came first and they were starting to be really successful.
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So then the next wave of wines that came were like some Otago Pinots, some Hawks Bay Reds.
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Martin Bro.
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Pinots, I'm sure, like Kumi River and some, some of the, and I was, you know, the wines were still hard to find, but you could find them particularly in New Jersey.
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But I think there was pushback at that time because of pricing where the Sauvignon Blancs were like, this is easy, we can get our head around it.
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It's obviously so distinct and it's maintained.
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yeah.
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but with, particularly with the Pinot noir, you know, they were already, you know, we're talking 20 years ago now.
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They were already in the $40 range, and people are going, what, what is this stuff? And it was very good, you know.
192
00:09:27,405.821 --> 00:09:28,395.821
Oh, obviously it drew me there.
193
00:09:28,395.821 --> 00:09:29,205.821
It's beautiful wine.
194
00:09:29,285.821 --> 00:09:30,395.821
But there was no.
195
00:09:31,145.821 --> 00:09:35,315.821
And this is what I mean in hindsight, there was no marketing push or education around that.
196
00:09:35,315.821 --> 00:09:40,385.821
Say like there was for vibrant rioja when there was all of a sudden Spanish wines everywhere.
197
00:09:40,390.821 --> 00:09:40,660.821
That's true.
198
00:09:40,690.821 --> 00:09:50,140.821
they were spending billions of euros to educate, everybody from consumers, retailers, trade people like you, you know, they would just get the ball rolling for these people.
199
00:09:50,140.821 --> 00:09:55,90.821
And New Zealand just didn't have, you know, they had great wines and they have really good producers.
200
00:09:55,90.821 --> 00:10:07,430.821
Oh, and great conscientious people, but they just didn't have the dollars behind it And I actually think we should, step back, just to point out, this is actually, and I've talked about How rose, how the sausage got made for Rose, how that became so popular in America.
201
00:10:07,970.821 --> 00:10:19,950.821
That was a massive, multi-year pr push by multiple, wine industry trade groups, spending millions of dollars and they took me out on a yacht.
202
00:10:20,10.821 --> 00:10:20,310.821
Fed me.
203
00:10:20,965.821 --> 00:10:21,955.821
Entertain me.
204
00:10:22,235.821 --> 00:10:24,425.821
there was a bunch of D-list celebrities apparently.
205
00:10:24,965.821 --> 00:10:25,685.821
I brought my wife.
206
00:10:25,685.821 --> 00:10:30,375.821
Oh, aren't you a D-list celebrity? I know, Oh, no, I'm an fless celebrity at best, but yeah.
207
00:10:30,375.821 --> 00:10:30,376.821
Yeah.
208
00:10:30,381.821 --> 00:10:33,615.821
No, and that, and, and only, only in, yeah, only two people.
209
00:10:33,705.821 --> 00:10:35,115.821
People who work in wine shops.
210
00:10:35,175.821 --> 00:10:35,355.821
Yeah.
211
00:10:35,715.821 --> 00:10:36,375.821
Oh my God.
212
00:10:36,375.821 --> 00:10:40,55.821
I gotta say, I actually recently, I got back to me that I was mean to somebody.
213
00:10:40,55.821 --> 00:10:42,695.821
I just didn't say hi to somebody in a wine shop.
214
00:10:42,915.821 --> 00:10:43,635.821
and how dare you.
215
00:10:43,695.821 --> 00:10:45,255.821
I know, but it got back to me.
216
00:10:45,255.821 --> 00:10:47,25.821
I heard back that I hurt their feelings.
217
00:10:47,55.821 --> 00:10:47,480.821
Oh, geez.
218
00:10:47,480.821 --> 00:10:49,365.821
And I'm like, oh my God, I don't know that people know me.
219
00:10:49,365.821 --> 00:10:50,655.821
I'm like, holy shit.
220
00:10:50,835.821 --> 00:10:51,135.821
Yeah.
221
00:10:51,165.821 --> 00:10:52,635.821
Like I, my, my, yes.
222
00:10:52,635.821 --> 00:10:52,995.821
Yeah.
223
00:10:52,995.821 --> 00:10:57,705.821
But also just I have, I, I, I forget, I have to be nice to everybody in wine shops.
224
00:10:57,885.821 --> 00:10:59,295.821
'cause they apparently all know me.
225
00:10:59,435.821 --> 00:11:00,765.821
they probably went to your school, Yeah.
226
00:11:00,765.821 --> 00:11:01,95.821
Oh no.
227
00:11:01,95.821 --> 00:11:02,25.821
That I would recognize.
228
00:11:02,25.821 --> 00:11:02,865.821
I would recognize that.
229
00:11:02,865.821 --> 00:11:03,825.821
No, these are just, yeah.
230
00:11:03,825.821 --> 00:11:04,65.821
No.
231
00:11:04,65.821 --> 00:11:04,805.821
But, so.
232
00:11:05,110.821 --> 00:11:05,890.821
That's it.
233
00:11:05,950.821 --> 00:11:15,460.821
So like this is a huge thing that almost every major wine that's been introduced into the United States, especially, there's been marketing money behind it.
234
00:11:15,580.821 --> 00:11:19,90.821
I mean, all the way going back to Argentian and Malbec in the early aughts.
235
00:11:19,180.821 --> 00:11:19,420.821
Yeah.
236
00:11:19,510.821 --> 00:11:29,560.821
you know, and like one of the things I'm not, you know, when I actually represented, champagne for a year, I was their main ambassador and I got paid a fortune for doing very little.
237
00:11:29,650.821 --> 00:11:29,860.821
Yeah.
238
00:11:29,990.821 --> 00:11:32,950.821
so this is, and this is, you know, many, many years ago.
239
00:11:33,30.821 --> 00:11:34,920.821
They realized that I just dropped too many F bombs.
240
00:11:34,920.821 --> 00:11:34,980.821
Yeah.
241
00:11:35,610.821 --> 00:11:37,470.821
They just realized like they did not know what to do with me.
242
00:11:37,470.821 --> 00:11:40,150.821
So they Even for the French? no, I just, know, I was just a little too, Yeah.
243
00:11:40,150.821 --> 00:11:43,270.821
Well there's probably some Brits involved if it's champagne going on here.
244
00:11:43,300.821 --> 00:11:43,960.821
Oh, exactly.
245
00:11:44,20.821 --> 00:11:46,60.821
Oh, it was a, they, that was a cluster fuck.
246
00:11:46,60.821 --> 00:11:47,230.821
But that's a whole different story.
247
00:11:47,630.821 --> 00:11:57,90.821
but it does point to, you're right though, it does point to the fact that these big PR pushes come and They're usually from countries that have super government behind them.
248
00:11:57,120.821 --> 00:11:57,480.821
Oh, yeah.
249
00:11:57,480.821 --> 00:12:03,390.821
Willing to spend, whether it's, you know, Money from Argentina, you know, and their government, backed initiatives.
250
00:12:03,440.821 --> 00:12:07,40.821
So hopefully New Zealand, there's talk of one happening soon.
251
00:12:07,40.821 --> 00:12:07,880.821
That would be great.
252
00:12:07,880.821 --> 00:12:17,410.821
You know, because we really need to, You know, I've been pounding the pavement for 15 years Out here with some years feeling like I'm by myself, with alternative varieties from New Zealand.
253
00:12:17,410.821 --> 00:12:18,460.821
Oh, that's true.
254
00:12:18,465.821 --> 00:12:20,110.821
But it is, I've, it has increased.
255
00:12:20,380.821 --> 00:12:25,390.821
And I do see now, you know, I have always saw like bitter craggy range out there and Yeah.
256
00:12:25,390.821 --> 00:12:26,380.821
Who's similar to me.
257
00:12:26,380.821 --> 00:12:28,210.821
They do Hawks Bay and Martin Borough Fruit.
258
00:12:28,330.821 --> 00:12:28,630.821
Yeah.
259
00:12:28,660.821 --> 00:12:32,720.821
I've seen some other Hawks Bay producers, like, tomato State Yes.
260
00:12:32,720.821 --> 00:12:37,40.821
And, you know, sometimes you find the weirdest wines in the weirdest states around the country now.
261
00:12:37,85.821 --> 00:12:49,125.821
Oh, I I want to get to that, but, but before we start, just one thought I, it's really impressive that New Zealand, New Zealand is the one place that hasn't really promoted themselves and yet had massive acceptance.
262
00:12:49,125.821 --> 00:12:49,635.821
Like, yeah.
263
00:12:50,55.821 --> 00:12:51,885.821
New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, which.
264
00:12:52,535.821 --> 00:12:55,625.821
I actually use in many different ways in all my classes.
265
00:12:55,675.821 --> 00:13:05,995.821
just largely because one, you wanna show terroir, like, which is a very, you know, I don't, I don't use that lightly, but like, the level of four MMP, yeah.
266
00:13:06,355.821 --> 00:13:11,695.821
And, in which is, you know, one of those, sulfur based thiols that actually gives it that guava play.
267
00:13:11,815.821 --> 00:13:14,95.821
You can't get that almost anywhere else.
268
00:13:14,95.821 --> 00:13:17,705.821
That is very much, your south island.
269
00:13:17,765.821 --> 00:13:22,715.821
So much sunshine, just the exact right place to get those flavors and you can't get anywhere else.
270
00:13:22,835.821 --> 00:13:30,875.821
And I also think I've been there, well, like I said, 17 years now, and we talked about everybody took, oh, they got young soils and that was kind of preached to me.
271
00:13:30,875.821 --> 00:13:38,55.821
But, the more I'm there, the more I do think it is a lot more to do with the sunshine and the high, high UV levels we have there.
272
00:13:39,45.821 --> 00:13:42,405.821
Oh, it is, it always d and we, we, we sort of have to ripen by uv.
273
00:13:42,855.821 --> 00:13:48,485.821
So we opened the canopy and, I mean, all you have to do is get off the plane in New Zealand and two things.
274
00:13:48,515.821 --> 00:13:49,685.821
You gotta wear sunblock.
275
00:13:49,715.821 --> 00:13:49,955.821
Yep.
276
00:13:50,135.821 --> 00:13:53,525.821
And you, and you notice that everything around you is more vivid.
277
00:13:53,525.821 --> 00:13:55,325.821
The greens are greener, the blues are bluer.
278
00:13:55,325.821 --> 00:14:02,165.821
And you go, what the hell's going on here? And it's 'cause we're an island in the Pacific with no continental dust and really strong sunlight.
279
00:14:02,195.821 --> 00:14:04,225.821
So it's, that comes out in the wine.
280
00:14:04,225.821 --> 00:14:04,945.821
Of course it does.
281
00:14:04,945.821 --> 00:14:05,554.821
it's insane.
282
00:14:05,554.821 --> 00:14:05,764.821
Yeah.
283
00:14:05,764.821 --> 00:14:08,824.821
No, there's very few places you can point to that actually has that level.
284
00:14:08,884.821 --> 00:14:11,224.821
And usually most of 'em are, are very high elevation.
285
00:14:11,274.821 --> 00:14:16,84.821
New Zealand's one of the few that is, you know, reasonably not, below 2000 feet above sea level.
286
00:14:16,134.821 --> 00:14:17,604.821
and most of our stuff's riverbeds.
287
00:14:17,644.821 --> 00:14:19,684.821
And yet you're getting this uv It is.
288
00:14:20,389.821 --> 00:14:25,9.821
And you're a hundred percent right? At least my, from everything I now know.
289
00:14:25,549.821 --> 00:14:28,444.821
Being the, you know, mind you, no, I do teach an advanced program on tir.
290
00:14:29,344.821 --> 00:14:30,879.821
you better for, I better on this stuff.
291
00:14:30,929.821 --> 00:14:32,279.821
So, okay, so there's that.
292
00:14:32,459.821 --> 00:14:36,899.821
And I just wanted to stress so everyone listening can get a little insider baseball on that.
293
00:14:37,789.821 --> 00:14:42,89.821
now I'm gonna actually issue my, my laments about, New Zealand.
294
00:14:42,309.821 --> 00:14:43,749.821
Okay, so here's the problem.
295
00:14:44,259.821 --> 00:14:49,689.821
One Tim I love right? Their Syrahs, when I can find them amazing.
296
00:14:49,899.821 --> 00:14:51,939.821
When I can find their cabs amazing.
297
00:14:52,209.821 --> 00:14:53,169.821
When I can find their.
298
00:14:53,499.821 --> 00:14:56,379.821
The one thing I can never find anymore, and I'm gonna come to you in a second.
299
00:14:56,659.821 --> 00:14:59,579.821
is there a gamay? Like, what the fuck? Okay.
300
00:14:59,579.821 --> 00:15:01,949.821
One, I can never find your Malbec anymore.
301
00:15:01,949.821 --> 00:15:03,209.821
So now here's the thing, Danny.
302
00:15:03,629.821 --> 00:15:05,759.821
Alright, you do this insanely great mail back.
303
00:15:05,789.821 --> 00:15:08,219.821
Why? And, and you do.
304
00:15:08,519.821 --> 00:15:10,919.821
And what else are you making right now? You're not looking in the right places.
305
00:15:10,949.821 --> 00:15:14,639.821
I know right You can get my Malbec, but also I know, but I don't, I don't buy things over in Jersey.
306
00:15:14,639.821 --> 00:15:21,109.821
because, I make sure that my friends, the shops that I tend to work with, they always have your decibels, SB Sauvignon Blanc.
307
00:15:21,109.821 --> 00:15:21,309.821
Always.
308
00:15:21,469.821 --> 00:15:28,424.821
'cause we use it because it shows a very distinctly different type of Sauvignon blanc than people are used to from New Zealand.
309
00:15:28,454.821 --> 00:15:36,544.821
I'll bring you a bit of pinot, bit of Malbac, and since you know where you can find the Sauvignon Blanc, I'm gonna bring you my shein blanc, which is doing really well on this trip recently.
310
00:15:36,849.821 --> 00:15:44,49.821
And it's from this great certified organic vineyard that we work with called the Two Terraces Vineyard, which is one of the most famous vineyards now in New Zealand.
311
00:15:44,169.821 --> 00:15:48,129.821
Oh really? It's about 15 winemakers, all elbowing in for fruit from these guys.
312
00:15:48,129.821 --> 00:15:48,639.821
Oh, that's fantastic.
313
00:15:48,899.821 --> 00:15:53,349.821
and they grow Shein Albarino, which I make as well, but they have Gamay, they have Chardonnay.
314
00:15:53,349.821 --> 00:15:54,69.821
Oh, okay.
315
00:15:54,99.821 --> 00:15:54,909.821
Syrah there.
316
00:15:54,909.821 --> 00:15:56,319.821
It's a fantastic site.
317
00:15:56,559.821 --> 00:15:57,669.821
but yeah, I mean it's tough.
318
00:15:57,669.821 --> 00:16:00,309.821
It's all about distribution and demand and everything.
319
00:16:00,339.821 --> 00:16:02,559.821
So I'm not surprised that you have a tough time finding.
320
00:16:02,559.821 --> 00:16:10,569.821
know, and it's hard because we, you're talking about alternative variety is from New Zealand and how hard it is.
321
00:16:10,569.821 --> 00:16:19,574.821
Like no one's out there talking about it except for you're there and Te Mata, which I mentioned, Distri our distributor here in Pennsylvania, they're Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
322
00:16:19,644.821 --> 00:16:25,4.821
Delaware, we're in New York as well, with somebody else, but they've got.
323
00:16:25,884.821 --> 00:16:28,914.821
Both Malbecs, they've got my Nove style Malbec.
324
00:16:28,964.821 --> 00:16:31,824.821
They've got, the Shannon, they've got a chilled red I do.
325
00:16:31,824.821 --> 00:16:33,484.821
Which is pinot based Oh yeah.
326
00:16:33,514.821 --> 00:16:36,249.821
I make 17 wines You make 17 wines now? Yeah.
327
00:16:36,249.821 --> 00:16:36,649.821
Oh my God.
328
00:16:36,764.821 --> 00:16:37,64.821
Okay.
329
00:16:37,64.821 --> 00:16:40,894.821
First off, if you come into my tasting room, have 17 wines on the shelf.
330
00:16:40,999.821 --> 00:16:42,499.821
so you have your, which is awesome.
331
00:16:42,499.821 --> 00:16:49,719.821
Now where is your, tasting room? So if you bought, so I, you know, I almost cr caved and bought a little winery and vineyard in the Gilet gravels.
332
00:16:49,749.821 --> 00:16:52,829.821
And then, thank God me and the guy are better friends for it.
333
00:16:52,829.821 --> 00:16:56,849.821
We, the deal fell through kind of in the 11th hour and Right.
334
00:16:56,969.821 --> 00:16:58,169.821
That was about three years ago.
335
00:16:58,169.821 --> 00:17:04,404.821
And right after that, maybe, almost four years ago now, right after that, the space opened up in downtown Hastings, which is where, oh.
336
00:17:04,409.821 --> 00:17:06,989.821
the east block of Hastings, where there's all these great restaurants.
337
00:17:07,289.821 --> 00:17:10,139.821
Michael Henley Master Wine has his own wine bar there.
338
00:17:10,199.821 --> 00:17:10,559.821
Nice.
339
00:17:10,559.821 --> 00:17:12,929.821
It worked connected to Agenda Distillery.
340
00:17:13,619.821 --> 00:17:13,709.821
Nice.
341
00:17:13,739.821 --> 00:17:14,909.821
And it's a great place to be.
342
00:17:14,909.821 --> 00:17:16,709.821
And I realize like my role.
343
00:17:17,519.821 --> 00:17:23,819.821
Much like it is with the, with the vineyards where I kind of get people to stop weed spraying and go organic.
344
00:17:23,819.821 --> 00:17:30,334.821
And I like to be with the people, you know what I mean? So, no, because most people here the aren't listening, aren't from Philly.
345
00:17:30,334.821 --> 00:17:35,734.821
So let's just, croons is just a great local pub up in the Fairmount district.
346
00:17:35,764.821 --> 00:17:35,974.821
Yeah.
347
00:17:35,974.821 --> 00:17:37,684.821
It's busy like seven days a week.
348
00:17:37,684.821 --> 00:17:38,404.821
It's crazy.
349
00:17:38,884.821 --> 00:17:44,214.821
and we're actually in the process of working on a little tasting room upstairs there, which is gonna be really cool.
350
00:17:44,244.821 --> 00:17:44,874.821
Oh, nice.
351
00:17:44,874.821 --> 00:17:46,14.821
So keep an eye out for that.
352
00:17:46,14.821 --> 00:17:46,854.821
That'll be later this year.
353
00:17:46,854.821 --> 00:17:48,994.821
We did a little sneak peek, last week.
354
00:17:49,264.821 --> 00:17:50,284.821
Showed some people around.
355
00:17:50,284.821 --> 00:17:51,184.821
It's under construction.
356
00:17:51,189.821 --> 00:17:53,759.821
can have a actual, little anchor here in Philly.
357
00:17:53,789.821 --> 00:17:54,629.821
Little legit.
358
00:17:54,629.821 --> 00:17:55,769.821
Little spot for us here.
359
00:17:55,769.821 --> 00:17:55,859.821
Nice.
360
00:17:55,859.821 --> 00:17:58,49.821
cause we do have a lot of our wines here in Pennsylvania.
361
00:17:58,49.821 --> 00:18:01,118.821
you do it just hard? and they're all, yeah, they're all SLO except for that.
362
00:18:01,148.821 --> 00:18:01,388.821
Yeah.
363
00:18:01,628.821 --> 00:18:03,68.821
but which is jargon.
364
00:18:03,98.821 --> 00:18:04,20.821
special liquor order, special, special liquor.
365
00:18:04,443.821 --> 00:18:05,103.821
Sorry, folks.
366
00:18:05,103.821 --> 00:18:07,443.821
But it just gotta go over the bridge and you'll find it easy.
367
00:18:07,443.821 --> 00:18:07,863.821
Yeah, exactly.
368
00:18:08,283.821 --> 00:18:11,453.821
but we, yeah, so I have this downtown tasting room, and we do events.
369
00:18:11,453.821 --> 00:18:12,443.821
We have live music.
370
00:18:12,473.821 --> 00:18:15,503.821
We, you know, last night, I mean, I wasn't there, obviously I'm here.
371
00:18:15,623.821 --> 00:18:15,743.821
Yeah.
372
00:18:15,743.821 --> 00:18:23,73.821
they were doing a paint and sip night where they, you know, they, oh, bunch of mothers from Mother's Day and painting and drinking wine, you know, whatever.
373
00:18:23,73.821 --> 00:18:25,113.821
Whatever we can do to be with the people you.
374
00:18:29,58.821 --> 00:18:33,723.821
With the people that is, it sounds like you're running for get the wine to the people, you know.
375
00:18:34,503.821 --> 00:18:37,143.821
Alright, so seven, you said 17 varieties.
376
00:18:37,563.821 --> 00:18:38,883.821
Well, 17 different wines.
377
00:18:38,888.821 --> 00:18:39,58.821
Wines.
378
00:18:39,63.821 --> 00:18:41,103.821
So we, decibel is a core range of wines.
379
00:18:41,103.821 --> 00:18:46,393.821
We have, we do a couple pet mats in that, which are by the way, are super clean and really well made.
380
00:18:46,443.821 --> 00:18:49,593.821
The Decibel Sab Blanc, the Shein Blanc, A Rose.
381
00:18:50,283.821 --> 00:18:50,553.821
Yeah.
382
00:18:50,553.821 --> 00:18:53,553.821
the Malbec and of course the Martin Bro Pinot Noir, which drew me there.
383
00:18:53,633.821 --> 00:18:55,493.821
so, and that's our core range of wines.
384
00:18:55,493.821 --> 00:18:58,193.821
You know, obviously what I started, we have one of the old ones here.
385
00:18:58,193.821 --> 00:18:59,618.821
The, yeah, the old label.
386
00:18:59,618.821 --> 00:19:00,38.821
listening.
387
00:19:00,38.821 --> 00:19:02,408.821
I actually, because this is for, yeah.
388
00:19:02,568.821 --> 00:19:05,988.821
we're not gonna open this largely because this is a 2013 IGN blanc.
389
00:19:06,318.821 --> 00:19:10,818.821
That's just for display, so that my first four winemakers, students became winemakers.
390
00:19:10,818.821 --> 00:19:12,318.821
I put, I leave them up there.
391
00:19:12,538.821 --> 00:19:13,108.821
so cool.
392
00:19:13,198.821 --> 00:19:13,648.821
Oh yeah.
393
00:19:13,648.821 --> 00:19:15,868.821
It is, it was funny how quickly it happened.
394
00:19:16,18.821 --> 00:19:17,488.821
dude, I still tell the story.
395
00:19:17,878.821 --> 00:19:27,868.821
People go, how, how did you end up here? And, you know, and people ask me, how'd you get in New Zealand from Phil? I said, well, I was, you know, after being on the road with the band for a bit, I was managing a band.
396
00:19:27,868.821 --> 00:19:31,498.821
I came back to work at my family's restaurant, but I knew I, I couldn't stay there.
397
00:19:31,798.821 --> 00:19:33,448.821
And I started taking your classes.
398
00:19:33,478.821 --> 00:19:33,658.821
Yeah.
399
00:19:33,663.821 --> 00:19:36,868.821
And I was like, 'cause I didn't realize, I knew I loved wine.
400
00:19:36,868.821 --> 00:19:41,638.821
I didn't know I actually had a good palette until we were doing blind tastings in your classes.
401
00:19:41,643.821 --> 00:19:46,138.821
And I was getting like 10 outta 10, and people were giving me weird looks like, how do, and I'm like, I don't know.
402
00:19:46,768.821 --> 00:19:49,438.821
I'm just guessing, but I guess I'm guessing, right? Yeah.
403
00:19:49,438.821 --> 00:19:52,528.821
And I pulled you aside and I said, you probably don't remember this.
404
00:19:52,528.821 --> 00:19:56,68.821
And I said, because you had done some vintages and been to some places.
405
00:19:56,68.821 --> 00:19:57,808.821
You'd been to France, you'd been to California.
406
00:19:57,808.821 --> 00:20:00,448.821
And I was like, listen man, how the hell do I do this? Yeah.
407
00:20:00,448.821 --> 00:20:01,78.821
Like, I want to.
408
00:20:01,378.821 --> 00:20:02,548.821
Go do this somehow.
409
00:20:02,548.821 --> 00:20:06,58.821
and you said chemistry man, and I said, fuck.
410
00:20:07,588.821 --> 00:20:07,858.821
Exactly.
411
00:20:07,858.821 --> 00:20:08,518.821
Yeah.
412
00:20:08,518.821 --> 00:20:10,373.821
I haven't studied chemistry from, since high school.
413
00:20:10,373.821 --> 00:20:15,643.821
So I got a buddy's, who was studying, doing, you know, he is now a doctor here in Philadelphia.
414
00:20:15,643.821 --> 00:20:19,93.821
He gave me his MCAT book and I started doing like basic chemistry again.
415
00:20:19,123.821 --> 00:20:19,543.821
Oh wow.
416
00:20:19,573.821 --> 00:20:21,373.821
You know, those MCAT books are like this thick.
417
00:20:21,373.821 --> 00:20:21,583.821
Oh yeah.
418
00:20:21,583.821 --> 00:20:22,513.821
That's super thick.
419
00:20:22,653.821 --> 00:20:28,13.821
Well, I had to like, you know, I joke around people go, you know, 'cause I had had a degree.
420
00:20:28,13.821 --> 00:20:31,403.821
I always read, I was like, you know, I think, you know, I'm not a dumb guy.
421
00:20:31,403.821 --> 00:20:32,303.821
I can figure this out.
422
00:20:32,303.821 --> 00:20:35,753.821
But it's the equivalent of you're like, I jog every day.
423
00:20:35,753.821 --> 00:20:37,223.821
And then somebody goes, great, well you're in shape.
424
00:20:37,223.821 --> 00:20:38,123.821
Here's a basketball.
425
00:20:38,153.821 --> 00:20:40,913.821
You know, like it's a different muscles going on in your brain.
426
00:20:40,913.821 --> 00:20:45,743.821
So I just wanted to get the language back going again and like start looking at Oh yeah.
427
00:20:45,743.821 --> 00:20:48,203.821
Like, you know, inorganic organic chemistry.
428
00:20:48,203.821 --> 00:20:51,683.821
and just start getting the basic language down against it, at least when I got there.
429
00:20:51,733.821 --> 00:20:55,333.821
Which was still a ridiculous struggle, particularly for the first year.
430
00:20:55,333.821 --> 00:20:56,638.821
And then I caught my wind after that.
431
00:20:56,858.821 --> 00:21:03,408.821
that would be hard just because you jumped right in and which is amazing that you did, you know, and actually was your career.
432
00:21:03,438.821 --> 00:21:12,768.821
that gave me a little insight, like how to, allow students to, you know, give 'em a little bit more, understanding and knowledge and acclimation of, of what is gonna be expected.
433
00:21:12,768.821 --> 00:21:21,198.821
So before they jump in, which is why I, you know, one of the reasons why I started the Winemaking Advanced Winemaking program, but you were open to the idea that I was like, oh yeah, I wanna get out of the bar.
434
00:21:21,203.821 --> 00:21:22,613.821
And I said, I want get behind the I know.
435
00:21:22,613.821 --> 00:21:24,413.821
what I told you said you just go, yeah.
436
00:21:24,413.821 --> 00:21:25,973.821
Like go, because there was no other way.
437
00:21:25,973.821 --> 00:21:31,613.821
Like there was no, there's no, at that point in time, like there's just, you jump in or you sink or swim and.
438
00:21:31,928.821 --> 00:21:36,128.821
And the thing is, you, you, you swam, but I el and, which was amazing.
439
00:21:36,428.821 --> 00:21:38,498.821
I gave the same advice to other people and they sunk.
440
00:21:38,498.821 --> 00:21:46,328.821
So I'm like, alright, I have to like, so as for the school, I say I have to actually give students better advice because like, you know, sure.
441
00:21:46,328.821 --> 00:21:51,528.821
Danny did this awesome, amazing thing, but then I had other students who, I, you know, did it.
442
00:21:51,578.821 --> 00:22:03,588.821
But I think honestly, one of the best things is growing up in a restaurant I worked for, this guy Glen Hugo, out in Gerard one year and, and, 2012, which now they're in receivership or something.
443
00:22:03,588.821 --> 00:22:05,838.821
But, I haven't talked to him in a while, but I hope he's doing okay.
444
00:22:05,838.821 --> 00:22:11,538.821
But, they, he said every year, all his first year interns are ex restaurant people.
445
00:22:11,598.821 --> 00:22:17,718.821
That when he goes around and sells the wine, he just said, Hey, you wanna come do Harvest? You know, and he and I said, yeah, that's a probably good idea.
446
00:22:18,483.821 --> 00:22:19,743.821
They're used to working on their feet.
447
00:22:19,743.821 --> 00:22:20,883.821
They're used to working long hours.
448
00:22:20,883.821 --> 00:22:23,583.821
They're used to cleaning, which is 90% of the job cleaning.
449
00:22:23,583.821 --> 00:22:23,918.821
Oh, yeah, exactly.
450
00:22:24,98.821 --> 00:22:27,573.821
You know? Oh, they're used to being in the weeds, which you constantly are in the winery.
451
00:22:27,573.821 --> 00:22:32,803.821
So, You're used to just get it done, figure it out somehow, you know, and be able to quick thinking and under pressure.
452
00:22:32,803.821 --> 00:22:33,853.821
'cause the thing is, is yeah.
453
00:22:33,853.821 --> 00:22:35,563.821
I mean, that no tank explode.
454
00:22:36,313.821 --> 00:22:37,423.821
Oh, they do? Oh, yeah.
455
00:22:37,423.821 --> 00:22:39,823.821
Things that, you know, people fall, Yeah.
456
00:22:39,823.821 --> 00:22:41,833.821
I mean, so things happen.
457
00:22:42,173.821 --> 00:22:48,883.821
The thing that the, and I've seen this, I, you know, I won't say the name, I've seen accountants come out and try to do harvest and Oh yeah.
458
00:22:49,93.821 --> 00:22:50,533.821
I'm like, you can't bean count here.
459
00:22:50,533.821 --> 00:22:52,153.821
We just gotta get it done, you know? Yeah.
460
00:22:52,153.821 --> 00:22:58,53.821
And, and so it takes us a certain kind of, Personality, wine, you know, winemakers are usually pretty interesting people.
461
00:22:58,113.821 --> 00:22:58,264.821
Oh yeah.
462
00:22:58,264.821 --> 00:22:58,578.821
A lot of my friends.
463
00:22:58,798.821 --> 00:23:03,63.821
And they're, you know, they have a diverse range of skills, you know? Yeah.
464
00:23:03,153.821 --> 00:23:03,493.821
Oh Yeah.
465
00:23:03,913.821 --> 00:23:06,463.821
Hold your own, you know, that's the hard bit.
466
00:23:06,543.821 --> 00:23:10,23.821
and one of the things when my students, in corporate, say, I want to do this.
467
00:23:10,23.821 --> 00:23:13,83.821
I'm like, well, this is hard.
468
00:23:13,133.821 --> 00:23:16,643.821
that corporate lifestyle is, the very opposite of what you need.
469
00:23:16,833.821 --> 00:23:20,73.821
Like, 'cause there's no one to call and They don't understand how deep that goes.
470
00:23:20,513.821 --> 00:23:21,233.821
and there's no money.
471
00:23:21,423.821 --> 00:23:22,103.821
Yeah, exactly.
472
00:23:22,103.821 --> 00:23:22,343.821
No.
473
00:23:22,343.821 --> 00:23:23,183.821
And there's no one to call.
474
00:23:23,233.821 --> 00:23:24,733.821
And you're responsible for everything.
475
00:23:24,733.821 --> 00:23:29,713.821
Like, and most people don't understand how that feels.
476
00:23:29,713.821 --> 00:23:32,768.821
and that's a huge weight, that most people just walk away.
477
00:23:32,828.821 --> 00:23:34,58.821
They can't understand.
478
00:23:34,778.821 --> 00:23:35,948.821
That's what you know, but.
479
00:23:36,503.821 --> 00:23:38,753.821
It is, you know, it's always, it is restaurant people.
480
00:23:38,753.821 --> 00:23:43,973.821
I mean, there's always, you know, having some restaurant industries, at least to be workers, The workers we're seller hands and stuff, you know.
481
00:23:43,988.821 --> 00:23:44,428.821
Exactly.
482
00:23:44,633.821 --> 00:23:45,383.821
You know, all the way up.
483
00:23:45,443.821 --> 00:23:48,623.821
Unless you're, the, the, you know, unless you're, unless you're the money guy.
484
00:23:48,713.821 --> 00:23:48,863.821
Mm-hmm.
485
00:23:48,863.821 --> 00:23:54,53.821
You know, like at that point it doesn't matter 'cause you're gonna hire people to do it and you're gonna lose money on this no matter what.
486
00:23:54,723.821 --> 00:23:57,993.821
but, but, so, okay, so here we are.
487
00:23:58,353.821 --> 00:24:01,473.821
I, I have a, I have, I have a couple questions.
488
00:24:01,478.821 --> 00:24:01,558.821
Okay.
489
00:24:01,863.821 --> 00:24:01,983.821
Okay.
490
00:24:02,38.821 --> 00:24:05,943.821
'cause you've been in the New Zealand now for 17 years.
491
00:24:05,943.821 --> 00:24:07,113.821
17 years plus, yeah.
492
00:24:07,113.821 --> 00:24:07,653.821
Plus, yeah.
493
00:24:07,653.821 --> 00:24:08,373.821
18 vintages.
494
00:24:08,373.821 --> 00:24:11,343.821
So, so pinot noir always beloved.
495
00:24:11,403.821 --> 00:24:15,363.821
I, I've like from the very beginning, like it, the, the pinot beyond all else.
496
00:24:15,393.821 --> 00:24:16,713.821
'cause it was always vitally correct.
497
00:24:16,713.821 --> 00:24:24,663.821
And so, so say like, up until around 20 15, 20 16, 20 maybe in 2018, it.
498
00:24:25,293.821 --> 00:24:37,253.821
You saw a very diverse range of pinot noir, you saw ones really heavily, like very lean, a lot of barnyard, some roses, and they were always like, what? I wanted to show varietal little fingerprints.
499
00:24:37,623.821 --> 00:24:38,613.821
I brought in New Zealand.
500
00:24:38,643.821 --> 00:24:55,603.821
I always knew consistently, but styles changed I've noticed a rather rapid change in New Zealand pinots where they're becoming richer, heavier, much more fruit forward, I'm not gonna sell to you by saying Mette Valley style, but have you noticed a shift? movement? I don't know.
501
00:24:55,603.821 --> 00:25:02,833.821
I don't know which wines you're drinking, so it's tough for me to say, but I would say, you know, we're pretty conscious of that.
502
00:25:02,833.821 --> 00:25:05,263.821
We're don't want to be California, Oregon Pinot.
503
00:25:05,393.821 --> 00:25:18,233.821
these past two weeks, and I kept saying, oh, these are almost like, at least stylistically and body-wise, a little bit like old board or old Burgundy, because God knows recent burgundy vintages are so concentrated.
504
00:25:18,238.821 --> 00:25:19,48.821
Oh, panic.
505
00:25:19,78.821 --> 00:25:19,438.821
Yeah.
506
00:25:19,488.821 --> 00:25:22,338.821
and it, they're, they are still pretty light on their feet.
507
00:25:22,343.821 --> 00:25:22,393.821
Yeah.
508
00:25:22,423.821 --> 00:25:22,713.821
Okay.
509
00:25:22,718.821 --> 00:25:26,58.821
Now, if you're talking about central Otago Yes.
510
00:25:26,58.821 --> 00:25:26,953.821
I'm talking about Central Otago.
511
00:25:26,953.821 --> 00:25:31,368.821
That Central Otago, I mean, that, that is, there's a couple things going on there.
512
00:25:31,368.821 --> 00:25:40,518.821
And this is why wine's interesting is one is the weather and the, you know, that they get that day or shift where they get really hot, they get the hottest days during the summer, but then the coldest nights.
513
00:25:40,578.821 --> 00:25:41,148.821
Oh, okay.
514
00:25:41,148.821 --> 00:25:43,608.821
So they get really, they get like these big fruit bombs.
515
00:25:43,608.821 --> 00:25:45,378.821
It's just gonna happen from Otago.
516
00:25:45,408.821 --> 00:25:45,648.821
Yeah.
517
00:25:45,648.821 --> 00:25:49,897.821
and I've noticed that it has been increasingly leading into that in the last decade.
518
00:25:49,897.821 --> 00:25:53,197.821
Now, much like you would say, Marlboro.
519
00:25:53,527.821 --> 00:25:58,57.821
With their Sauvignon Blanc, they say, well this works and people like it, and then we're gonna go even further.
520
00:25:58,227.821 --> 00:26:06,417.821
You know, you get all that tourism in Queenstown, you get people flying in from Asia and around the world and they go, Hey, we got these amazing expressive pinots.
521
00:26:06,417.821 --> 00:26:08,517.821
I think personally there's something to that.
522
00:26:08,667.821 --> 00:26:08,937.821
Yeah.
523
00:26:08,967.821 --> 00:26:10,317.821
Where we say Martin, bro.
524
00:26:10,377.821 --> 00:26:10,737.821
Yeah.
525
00:26:11,7.821 --> 00:26:19,47.821
Our main market is some of the old traditional markets like Australia and the uk, but Wellington, you know Wellington, yes.
526
00:26:19,47.821 --> 00:26:21,657.821
that was part of that second wave of wines that came in.
527
00:26:21,747.821 --> 00:26:22,47.821
Yes.
528
00:26:22,47.821 --> 00:26:24,87.821
It's very hard to find a Martin bro pinot in American.
529
00:26:24,87.821 --> 00:26:24,147.821
Now.
530
00:26:24,417.821 --> 00:26:28,982.821
I know this is a problem and Yeah, well it's a problem for Americans, but yeah, they sell 'em elsewhere.
531
00:26:29,737.821 --> 00:26:29,917.821
I know.
532
00:26:29,917.821 --> 00:26:38,847.821
Oh, that's clearly, and, and, and I think it, again, it was like pushback to price and everything, and we don't get the volumes that a lot of the OTA and the yields that a lot of the Otago producers get.
533
00:26:39,87.821 --> 00:26:42,567.821
You could look at the same exact clone on very similar soils.
534
00:26:43,92.821 --> 00:26:49,272.821
In Martin Borough versus Otago and the bunches will look way bigger in, in Otago, well in Martin Borough.
535
00:26:49,272.821 --> 00:26:53,602.821
'cause we get those real windy spring days in, in, in, in Martin Borough.
536
00:26:54,22.821 --> 00:26:56,962.821
So we get thicker skins and smaller concentrated bunches.
537
00:26:56,962.821 --> 00:26:57,292.821
Yeah.
538
00:26:57,352.821 --> 00:26:57,712.821
Alright.
539
00:26:57,742.821 --> 00:26:58,12.821
Okay.
540
00:26:58,12.821 --> 00:27:01,372.821
Which makes, but we get like more savory character there.
541
00:27:01,712.821 --> 00:27:07,982.821
now as I'm seeing Vine age in Otago and there, you know, there's great producers like Felton Road and Ali and Oh yeah.
542
00:27:08,72.821 --> 00:27:12,402.821
And, they're two of my favorites, where, you know, those wines are getting crazy good.
543
00:27:12,402.821 --> 00:27:15,222.821
Like they're just amazing and great winemakers and everything.
544
00:27:15,622.821 --> 00:27:17,242.821
so I think Vine age too helps.
545
00:27:17,272.821 --> 00:27:17,332.821
Yeah.
546
00:27:17,332.821 --> 00:27:17,362.821
Okay.
547
00:27:17,362.821 --> 00:27:23,482.821
You know, with like complexity and, you know, the young, usually the younger the vine, the more fruit forward it's gonna be in the beginning.
548
00:27:23,482.821 --> 00:27:28,62.821
So, I mean it's just all so new down there at the end, end of the day, you know? Yeah.
549
00:27:28,62.821 --> 00:27:30,492.821
it's really interesting and I actually, I do love that.
550
00:27:31,152.821 --> 00:27:47,352.821
It's just something I always preach to students is that they're very like, look who the market is and you could, 'cause you know, you'll see where the style is, why the style is there, and that makes sense that you have a a, I mean, that Otago there's more of a Yeah, yeah.
551
00:27:47,442.821 --> 00:27:53,142.821
There's outside influences that are really, contributing to the, like bigger, richer, you know? Yeah.
552
00:27:53,142.821 --> 00:27:54,222.821
that makes a lot of sense.
553
00:27:54,252.821 --> 00:27:57,492.821
And to be honest, like there can be pushback with that too.
554
00:27:57,492.821 --> 00:28:05,712.821
And you could pay 80 bucks for a Pinot and go like, what the hell did I just drink? I didn't, you know, it was light and fruity and it was pretty good and maybe there was a bit of oak there.
555
00:28:06,57.821 --> 00:28:14,467.821
and you know, there's some people, as we say, taking the piss, but you know, But they can, because they get tourist dollars that come through and they get these junks and so good on 'em.
556
00:28:14,467.821 --> 00:28:23,527.821
I mean, we don't have a lot, you know, Hawkes Bay, we're pretty secluded, you know, Martin, bro, you got Wellington there, but you know, only the knowledgeable tourist is gonna go over to Martin, bro.
557
00:28:23,527.821 --> 00:28:24,527.821
You know All right.
558
00:28:24,587.821 --> 00:28:31,317.821
And then Marlboro, Marlboro makes some good pinot producers there, but some of the bigger guys who make Pinot, it's like, oh yeah, here's our Pinot too.
559
00:28:31,322.821 --> 00:28:35,852.821
Because we make a million liters of Sauvignon Blanc and those wines are their own thing.
560
00:28:35,882.821 --> 00:28:40,607.821
They can be kind of, to me, they're always a bit sort of edgy and smoky and they can be really good.
561
00:28:40,607.821 --> 00:28:41,267.821
They're interesting.
562
00:28:41,457.821 --> 00:28:44,667.821
And then there's North Canterbury as well, which makes some pretty serious Pinots.
563
00:28:44,697.821 --> 00:28:50,747.821
That's like basically near Christchurch the business of wine and the reason why you're here, like of course you are affiliate native.
564
00:28:50,797.821 --> 00:28:55,937.821
that's why, you know, but you've really had a focus on the East coast, with your wines.
565
00:28:56,147.821 --> 00:28:57,617.821
You, make sure they're here.
566
00:28:58,7.821 --> 00:29:08,27.821
But one of the things is, but why do you have to, like, people don't understand like how the wine industry works.
567
00:29:08,27.821 --> 00:29:12,527.821
So why is it that you're here, like you're here almost every year? Yeah, sometimes.
568
00:29:12,647.821 --> 00:29:13,157.821
A lot of times.
569
00:29:13,157.821 --> 00:29:14,87.821
Twice a year.
570
00:29:14,87.821 --> 00:29:14,90.821
Twice a year.
571
00:29:14,95.821 --> 00:29:14,297.821
Yeah.
572
00:29:14,327.821 --> 00:29:16,757.821
I mean, first of all, the US is a very big place.
573
00:29:16,757.821 --> 00:29:16,847.821
Mm-hmm.
574
00:29:17,87.821 --> 00:29:17,297.821
Yes.
575
00:29:17,297.821 --> 00:29:17,837.821
And so it's.
576
00:29:18,137.821 --> 00:29:20,537.821
Honestly, 50 markets, you know? Yeah.
577
00:29:20,537.821 --> 00:29:27,227.821
Most states in the US have way more people than there is in all of New Zealand, and New Zealand's a good, you know, wine market for us.
578
00:29:27,257.821 --> 00:29:27,527.821
Yeah.
579
00:29:27,797.821 --> 00:29:32,917.821
but you know, we sell more wine in Kansas than we do in New Zealand, probably, you know? Wow.
580
00:29:33,187.821 --> 00:29:33,547.821
Okay.
581
00:29:34,357.821 --> 00:29:35,408.821
In certain months, I would say.
582
00:29:35,413.821 --> 00:29:35,822.821
Yeah, exactly.
583
00:29:35,827.821 --> 00:29:36,67.821
yeah.
584
00:29:36,117.821 --> 00:29:42,547.821
And so, but the reason why you're here is, man, we move, you know, when I come, the sales go out.
585
00:29:42,547.821 --> 00:29:46,397.821
It's just very simple and that's because, you know, I go out with.
586
00:29:46,617.821 --> 00:29:50,397.821
it's very easy to get appointments for the sales team when they say there's a winemaker in town.
587
00:29:50,497.821 --> 00:29:51,427.821
So we can go around.
588
00:29:51,427.821 --> 00:29:57,277.821
We do events, you know, I did a country club event in Akron, Ohio last night, and we sold 135 bottles of wine.
589
00:29:57,347.821 --> 00:29:57,737.821
Yeah.
590
00:29:57,827.821 --> 00:29:59,507.821
Hey, and my distributor loves that.
591
00:29:59,507.821 --> 00:30:05,987.821
And then, you know, the other thing, and I say this when I go, you know, you're sitting in a car with a salesperson for the day, basically.
592
00:30:06,37.821 --> 00:30:14,197.821
Part of it is them hearing you say the same thing to five or six accounts during the day and understand the, the story behind the wine and that there's a person behind the wine.
593
00:30:14,197.821 --> 00:30:16,297.821
That that's a big deal for a lot of retailers.
594
00:30:16,357.821 --> 00:30:16,627.821
Oh yeah.
595
00:30:16,627.821 --> 00:30:17,707.821
Especially where I'm in.
596
00:30:17,707.821 --> 00:30:19,627.821
I'm, you know, I'm not a giant producer or anything.
597
00:30:19,627.821 --> 00:30:19,687.821
Yeah.
598
00:30:19,687.821 --> 00:30:21,37.821
They wanna go, Hey, I met that guy.
599
00:30:21,37.821 --> 00:30:22,807.821
There's a real person who makes that wine.
600
00:30:22,897.821 --> 00:30:27,187.821
Right? It's not some, you know, constellation brand or Pinot Ricard or something.
601
00:30:27,187.821 --> 00:30:27,247.821
Yeah.
602
00:30:27,277.821 --> 00:30:28,987.821
There's a big corporation behind it.
603
00:30:29,407.821 --> 00:30:33,977.821
So, that really helps drive the sale and then it continues on after that.
604
00:30:34,7.821 --> 00:30:34,67.821
Yeah.
605
00:30:34,67.821 --> 00:30:38,477.821
'cause they go, yeah, I like Decibel, I like Dan, I like those wines.
606
00:30:38,507.821 --> 00:30:47,447.821
And hey, you know, then they can go out for the next few weeks and then until maybe the, you know, some markets I might only get to once every two or three years, but Yeah.
607
00:30:47,477.821 --> 00:31:02,947.821
But Philly, Jersey, New York, I try to get to, you know, at least one of those on every trip because we know, you know, I can come see some family, I can stay for free, I can borrow some cars, I can, get some free meals, you know, so that's a, that, that's a big.
608
00:31:03,222.821 --> 00:31:06,282.821
Advantage I have over a lot of New Zealand producers, you know? Yeah.
609
00:31:06,342.821 --> 00:31:06,912.821
That is.
610
00:31:07,232.821 --> 00:31:10,862.821
and so are you distributed in all, in all, like all 50 states? No.
611
00:31:10,862.821 --> 00:31:14,652.821
So, but we're a lot more, probably like 25 now.
612
00:31:14,652.821 --> 00:31:14,712.821
Wow.
613
00:31:14,797.821 --> 00:31:15,37.821
Or something.
614
00:31:15,37.821 --> 00:31:21,207.821
Oh, that's so, California, Oregon, Washington, Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona.
615
00:31:21,687.821 --> 00:31:26,667.821
just left Illinois, but going back in soon because somebody went bankrupt, but we're going back in.
616
00:31:26,757.821 --> 00:31:26,847.821
Yeah.
617
00:31:26,847.821 --> 00:31:27,112.821
Good, good.
618
00:31:27,117.821 --> 00:31:34,947.821
Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, Massachusetts, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida.
619
00:31:35,772.821 --> 00:31:37,542.821
Yeah, we were in Louisiana.
620
00:31:37,542.821 --> 00:31:40,192.821
I don't think we are now, but some good states in there.
621
00:31:40,192.821 --> 00:31:40,612.821
Michigan.
622
00:31:40,612.821 --> 00:31:43,292.821
Michigan's a great wine, And I'm glad you have Texas.
623
00:31:43,292.821 --> 00:31:44,702.821
Texas usually is pretty big.
624
00:31:45,142.821 --> 00:31:48,952.821
The wine industry is like, you know, so we have one agent.
625
00:31:48,952.821 --> 00:31:50,452.821
It's a bit like Pennsylvania in a way.
626
00:31:50,722.821 --> 00:31:54,802.821
'cause we have like the PLCB, some of the specialty stores have our Sauvignon Blanc.
627
00:31:54,832.821 --> 00:31:55,222.821
Yes.
628
00:31:55,222.821 --> 00:31:55,282.821
Yeah.
629
00:31:55,312.821 --> 00:32:00,492.821
Well, you're not really selling a lot of wine in Texas unless you're with the specs and the supermarkets there.
630
00:32:00,582.821 --> 00:32:00,762.821
Yes.
631
00:32:00,812.821 --> 00:32:02,922.821
They actually have amazing wine Collections.
632
00:32:02,922.821 --> 00:32:04,902.821
It's not like, oh, this is just supermarket wine.
633
00:32:04,912.821 --> 00:32:06,682.821
they're the big retailers there.
634
00:32:07,72.821 --> 00:32:07,942.821
So we have one.
635
00:32:08,317.821 --> 00:32:10,207.821
outfit that just sells to them.
636
00:32:10,207.821 --> 00:32:10,267.821
Yeah.
637
00:32:10,357.821 --> 00:32:19,312.821
And then we actually have a guy who I met up with on my trip in Houston, two weeks ago, who does all our other wines and he does all small retailers and restaurants.
638
00:32:19,317.821 --> 00:32:19,377.821
Oh.
639
00:32:19,377.821 --> 00:32:23,332.821
And so he is focusing on the Shena Blanc and the Malbac and the Pinot and stuff like that.
640
00:32:23,362.821 --> 00:32:23,877.821
Oh, that's, yeah.
641
00:32:23,937.821 --> 00:32:26,397.821
and there's scenarios like that all over.
642
00:32:26,397.821 --> 00:32:29,37.821
And, you know, we again, get the wine to the people.
643
00:32:29,182.821 --> 00:32:29,542.821
Yeah.
644
00:32:29,542.821 --> 00:32:29,962.821
It's hard.
645
00:32:29,962.821 --> 00:32:30,262.821
yeah.
646
00:32:30,262.821 --> 00:32:37,312.821
And it's the part of the job that people don't realize that if you are the wine maker, you're the owner, you move they to talk to me, they want talk to me.
647
00:32:37,312.821 --> 00:32:37,372.821
Yeah.
648
00:32:37,427.821 --> 00:32:40,642.821
And, and that's everybody across the of the United States.
649
00:32:41,692.821 --> 00:32:45,22.821
And you have 50 different markets with all, every, that has their own laws.
650
00:32:45,352.821 --> 00:32:48,262.821
So it's not like you can just make one deal across the country.
651
00:32:48,502.821 --> 00:32:54,872.821
No, it's 50 markets, it's 50 countries, occasionally we have distributors in two states, and you can bounce around a little bit.
652
00:32:54,872.821 --> 00:33:00,411.821
But again, America's very big, if you say, I'm in Charlotte and I'm in, I don't know, Myrtle Beach, two different states.
653
00:33:00,411.821 --> 00:33:01,371.821
that's a long drive.
654
00:33:01,371.821 --> 00:33:02,421.821
No, yeah.
655
00:33:02,421.821 --> 00:33:04,311.821
And there's to fly is not worth it.
656
00:33:04,646.821 --> 00:33:06,471.821
Yeah, yeah.
657
00:33:06,471.821 --> 00:33:07,791.821
That you just eat up everything.
658
00:33:07,821.821 --> 00:33:08,91.821
Yeah.
659
00:33:08,91.821 --> 00:33:08,611.821
And, yeah.
660
00:33:08,911.821 --> 00:33:11,971.821
That is, and this is, it's the beautiful part.
661
00:33:12,181.821 --> 00:33:17,791.821
It's also allows a very small operation to succeed too, and.
662
00:33:18,76.821 --> 00:33:19,966.821
Which is one of the funny parts about America.
663
00:33:19,966.821 --> 00:33:23,566.821
Like since we, you know, it's the one piece of our Yeah, sure.
664
00:33:23,566.821 --> 00:33:25,936.821
Interstate commerce except for alcohol.
665
00:33:26,146.821 --> 00:33:26,356.821
Yeah.
666
00:33:26,356.821 --> 00:33:40,36.821
So except for wine, you know, like this one caveat that's cut out from prohibition, but it does allow us, because to be honest, I don't think either you or I would exist if it was one large market.
667
00:33:40,66.821 --> 00:33:44,146.821
Like no, we would have to, we would have to be competing against, it would be too corporate.
668
00:33:44,146.821 --> 00:33:44,836.821
The gallows.
669
00:33:44,836.821 --> 00:33:44,956.821
Yeah.
670
00:33:44,956.821 --> 00:33:45,796.821
And it would just be, yeah.
671
00:33:45,796.821 --> 00:33:55,816.821
And we would just be a little and we'd, you know, just take, we'd be sitting there, but you know, I, you're successful 'cause you're good and you're willing to work hard and you're willing to actually really it do what you need to do.
672
00:33:56,86.821 --> 00:34:08,66.821
And how much of your time, like you think every year is done building markets, servicing markets rather than just wine making, you know? Just how much? 20%, 30% of year? Probably.
673
00:34:08,306.821 --> 00:34:09,356.821
Definitely over 30.
674
00:34:09,386.821 --> 00:34:09,806.821
Yeah.
675
00:34:09,866.821 --> 00:34:10,106.821
Wow.
676
00:34:10,106.821 --> 00:34:10,346.821
Yeah.
677
00:34:10,446.821 --> 00:34:17,106.821
you know, thankfully I work with growers and I had worked on a lot of vineyards the first sort of half dozen years there.
678
00:34:17,166.821 --> 00:34:23,76.821
And, I've done my time pruning and things like that, so I'm not going back to pruning or anything, it was very good.
679
00:34:23,76.821 --> 00:34:28,566.821
Like, I always kind of had a vision in my head that I, honestly, I'd never thought I'd go to New Zealand and become a winemaker.
680
00:34:28,566.821 --> 00:34:30,396.821
That sounded like I'd be an astronaut, you know? Right.
681
00:34:30,396.821 --> 00:34:30,736.821
Oh, yeah.
682
00:34:30,736.821 --> 00:34:36,441.821
But I thought I'll go there and learn about it, and then when I talk to winemakers, they won't be able to pull the wool over my eyes, you know? Right.
683
00:34:36,441.821 --> 00:34:36,981.821
So, yeah.
684
00:34:37,201.821 --> 00:34:43,411.821
but it, it, to an extent, the vineyard side of the business is that way, and that they know, I know what I'm talking about.
685
00:34:43,421.821 --> 00:34:44,861.821
They know I've worked in vineyards.
686
00:34:44,891.821 --> 00:34:47,561.821
They know that, I've done it and I can relate.
687
00:34:47,561.821 --> 00:34:51,371.821
And also I'm empathetic with their problems and what it costs to do.
688
00:34:51,401.821 --> 00:34:52,391.821
and how hard it is.
689
00:34:52,441.821 --> 00:35:01,551.821
I'm trying to get people to transition to organic growing and that's usually a three year hit, at least the first two years where your crop goes down a little bit and then it comes back.
690
00:35:01,551.821 --> 00:35:02,601.821
Much more resilient.
691
00:35:02,641.821 --> 00:35:08,901.821
Thicker skins more resilient to inclement weather, which is, you know, with climate change, is one of our bigger issues in New Zealand.
692
00:35:09,411.821 --> 00:35:20,281.821
so, but you know, going back to what you said about the, you know, I mentioned all that stuff about, the work you put in to get your wine out in the market, it still goes back to.
693
00:35:20,941.821 --> 00:35:28,1.821
the idea that wine is such a unique product, such a unique thing in that, it's a vintage, And then we can look back.
694
00:35:28,361.821 --> 00:35:31,151.821
Is there anything else? I'm sure you must talk about this in your classes.
695
00:35:31,151.821 --> 00:35:43,481.821
Is there anything else that is in the world that we can look back and go, what was it like 20 years ago? What was it like 10 years ago? Maybe a literature or a song or something, but not, no, nothing like a physical thing that you can taste and feel and everything.
696
00:35:43,481.821 --> 00:36:00,831.821
So the idea that this product can travel from New Zealand to the other side of the world, and somebody in Chicago can pour a glass of my wine and maybe they were lucky enough to come to New Zealand and they can smell that wine and go, fuck, I love New Zealand.
697
00:36:00,831.821 --> 00:36:01,71.821
You know? Yeah.
698
00:36:01,101.821 --> 00:36:06,441.821
I remember when I was there in 2010 and this da da da and, and there's really nothing else like that.
699
00:36:06,441.821 --> 00:36:06,921.821
I don't know.
700
00:36:06,951.821 --> 00:36:08,31.821
You know, there is nothing.
701
00:36:08,31.821 --> 00:36:12,871.821
And, you know, and outside of the technology of us talking, On a podcast.
702
00:36:13,21.821 --> 00:36:15,481.821
They're the same conversations happening for 4,000 years.
703
00:36:15,561.821 --> 00:36:28,431.821
And that's the weird, like in the same effect, the Canaanites were shipping their awesome wines from Asia and the Middle East, taking it to what now is Italy, and people having the conversation about how awesome it is.
704
00:36:28,431.821 --> 00:36:31,221.821
Like, we have all this, we do know this.
705
00:36:31,271.821 --> 00:36:41,136.821
it travels, the alcohol preserves it, and it's always been this thing that's absolutely below it's a, and there's, the argument is, is that in fact, actually it existed before we were modern humans.
706
00:36:41,456.821 --> 00:36:44,36.821
I mean, even, even monkeys love booze.
707
00:36:44,246.821 --> 00:36:44,306.821
Yeah.
708
00:36:44,396.821 --> 00:36:44,966.821
They do.
709
00:36:45,146.821 --> 00:36:46,46.821
They can seek it out.
710
00:36:46,46.821 --> 00:36:46,676.821
They find it.
711
00:36:46,676.821 --> 00:36:46,976.821
Yeah.
712
00:36:46,976.821 --> 00:36:50,516.821
I, you know, the, yeah, of course it's all carbonic because it's all fermented inside.
713
00:36:50,516.821 --> 00:36:50,816.821
It is.
714
00:36:50,816.821 --> 00:36:52,226.821
'cause it buries us how they ferment.
715
00:36:52,256.821 --> 00:36:52,526.821
Yeah.
716
00:36:52,616.821 --> 00:36:53,456.821
You know, even before.
717
00:36:53,756.821 --> 00:36:55,726.821
And even up to the moment where, Oh yeah.
718
00:36:55,726.821 --> 00:37:06,16.821
'cause again, I do teach advanced, I tell you, I have, along with the TIR program, I teach a ancient wine program, which is just, I taught it just largely 'cause I wanted to know more.
719
00:37:06,146.821 --> 00:37:06,915.821
Oh, it's amazing.
720
00:37:06,945.821 --> 00:37:07,425.821
No, it is.
721
00:37:07,425.821 --> 00:37:09,165.821
But the thing you're talking about here Yeah.
722
00:37:09,165.821 --> 00:37:19,575.821
Is just that making something here, and it is just this thing that, you know, that story, that story of it is a very, very old story and people worry that, oh, like Gen Z isn't drinking as much.
723
00:37:19,575.821 --> 00:37:20,925.821
It's like, wait till they hear the story.
724
00:37:20,980.821 --> 00:37:24,70.821
The actual story, not the bullshit that they hear.
725
00:37:24,460.821 --> 00:37:39,120.821
but the actual authentic story that we are involved in, I, I think that, you know, everybody's in a little bit of a panic in the industry right now, and I think it's because the industry got a little fat and a little bit oversupplied and a little bit like, we're gonna take advantage and we're just gonna mass produce certain things Yeah.
726
00:37:39,120.821 --> 00:37:39,300.821
and the.
727
00:37:39,590.821 --> 00:37:41,870.821
generation, whatever, one or two behind me.
728
00:37:42,260.821 --> 00:37:56,830.821
I think they just want to hear those stories and they wanna meet the person and when that happens, we sell plenty of wine, but going back to what you said about like that kind of old thinking, I had a, just reminded me, I was, believe it or not, with two brain surgeons the other night after this tasting.
729
00:37:56,830.821 --> 00:38:00,100.821
And we were sitting around and he's just fascinated by wine.
730
00:38:00,130.821 --> 00:38:12,350.821
It was a, and so is the woman who was a colleague of his, she joined us a little later, but he said something really cool, that wine is something that really separates us from the rest of the animals in the plant.
731
00:38:12,350.821 --> 00:38:15,840.821
And I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, listen, there's three things that give us humanity.
732
00:38:15,840.821 --> 00:38:18,540.821
And I said, what's that? And he goes, we make wine.
733
00:38:18,590.821 --> 00:38:21,830.821
We bake bread and we drill holes in people's skulls.
734
00:38:23,390.821 --> 00:38:26,770.821
cause there's no other animals And he said, and you can go back for thousands of years.
735
00:38:26,770.821 --> 00:38:28,600.821
And people were drilling holes in people's heads.
736
00:38:28,605.821 --> 00:38:28,926.821
They were, yeah.
737
00:38:28,926.821 --> 00:38:30,275.821
But the Romans were, and pretty effectively too.
738
00:38:30,275.821 --> 00:38:33,455.821
and in South America they were doing the Incas and Miles.
739
00:38:33,455.821 --> 00:38:34,535.821
drilling holes, you know.
740
00:38:34,565.821 --> 00:38:38,615.821
That's hilarious because I thought you were gonna say language like, nah, Uhuh not anymore.
741
00:38:39,5.821 --> 00:38:39,215.821
No.
742
00:38:39,215.821 --> 00:38:40,235.821
There's plenty of language coming on.
743
00:38:40,235.821 --> 00:38:40,715.821
Oh my God.
744
00:38:40,715.821 --> 00:38:41,405.821
That is hilarious.
745
00:38:41,435.821 --> 00:38:42,35.821
I love that.
746
00:38:42,35.821 --> 00:38:43,535.821
I love that definition of humanity.
747
00:38:43,540.821 --> 00:38:45,155.821
That's a yeah, that's a very new one.
748
00:38:45,275.821 --> 00:38:46,865.821
yeah, no, yeah, yeah.
749
00:38:47,525.821 --> 00:38:48,305.821
That, yeah.
750
00:38:48,515.821 --> 00:38:52,455.821
We're not gonna be seeing any, whales, any or orcas, drilling holes in heads.
751
00:38:52,455.821 --> 00:38:52,755.821
No.
752
00:38:52,785.821 --> 00:38:54,430.821
Although I think the orcas would do it if they could.
753
00:38:54,430.821 --> 00:38:55,120.821
They're pretty smart.
754
00:38:55,125.821 --> 00:38:55,565.821
Yeah, they're smart.
755
00:38:55,660.821 --> 00:38:55,780.821
Yeah.
756
00:38:55,780.821 --> 00:38:56,470.821
And they're mean too.
757
00:38:56,470.821 --> 00:38:58,270.821
We get them around, Hawks Bay actually.
758
00:38:58,360.821 --> 00:38:59,320.821
Oh my God.
759
00:38:59,320.821 --> 00:39:00,850.821
get pods of orcas come through.
760
00:39:00,850.821 --> 00:39:04,270.821
My wife and daughter saw 'em, you know, six months ago come through.
761
00:39:04,310.821 --> 00:39:05,270.821
Do you like just get like.
762
00:39:05,585.821 --> 00:39:12,365.821
Get some like, like some, that'd be fun to have like a OrCAD watching trip and just like, you know, throw baby seals into the water.
763
00:39:12,365.821 --> 00:39:13,130.821
Think to watch you get eaten.
764
00:39:14,195.821 --> 00:39:15,875.821
They do that at South Island.
765
00:39:15,925.821 --> 00:39:16,765.821
they have whale.
766
00:39:17,215.821 --> 00:39:20,245.821
I've never been on one, but they do those boats that go out and you can see whales.
767
00:39:20,275.821 --> 00:39:21,800.821
Yes, I've seen a whale out at Cape.
768
00:39:21,800.821 --> 00:39:22,40.821
Oh yeah.
769
00:39:22,195.821 --> 00:39:23,305.821
Cape Rangi top.
770
00:39:23,335.821 --> 00:39:28,980.821
You can see whales like more and more these days, but, orcas I think are a little less predictable, but unless you got some seals in the water.
771
00:39:29,10.821 --> 00:39:29,655.821
Yeah, I know, right.
772
00:39:29,655.821 --> 00:39:30,195.821
Exactly.
773
00:39:30,195.821 --> 00:39:30,645.821
Yeah.
774
00:39:30,645.821 --> 00:39:33,395.821
You know, there's plenty of seals on the south island of New Zealand particularly.
775
00:39:33,395.821 --> 00:39:34,745.821
I mentioned Christchurch earlier.
776
00:39:35,165.821 --> 00:39:35,495.821
Yes.
777
00:39:35,605.821 --> 00:39:37,925.821
the coast down there above Christchurch.
778
00:39:37,925.821 --> 00:39:40,835.821
There's all these seals and you, there'll be some work not too far away.
779
00:39:40,840.821 --> 00:39:40,970.821
Oh yeah.
780
00:39:40,970.821 --> 00:39:41,210.821
Oh yeah.
781
00:39:41,210.821 --> 00:39:41,810.821
They get hungry.
782
00:39:42,150.821 --> 00:39:42,570.821
Oh yeah.
783
00:39:42,725.821 --> 00:39:49,395.821
Like, the National Wine School, main studios are in, Midcoast, Maine and they're there because part of my contract was 'cause the.
784
00:39:49,950.821 --> 00:39:51,420.821
The, school's headquarters in Vermont.
785
00:39:51,420.821 --> 00:39:53,100.821
I'm like, ah, now I much prefer the water.
786
00:39:53,340.821 --> 00:40:03,660.821
So we, they actually built our studio and a house on the property which is awesome, but when you go to the nearby beach, you do have to like, 'cause when their seals are around, the great whites are out.
787
00:40:03,660.821 --> 00:40:05,390.821
Oh, so you have to like tread lightly.
788
00:40:05,390.821 --> 00:40:06,140.821
Tread lightly.
789
00:40:06,140.821 --> 00:40:06,320.821
Yeah.
790
00:40:06,320.821 --> 00:40:08,990.821
Go in with a friend, someone smaller, someone more tasty.
791
00:40:08,990.821 --> 00:40:12,850.821
You know, I always bring my wife out with me, which is probably, she thinks it's a couple thing.
792
00:40:12,850.821 --> 00:40:14,230.821
I'm like, no, they're gonna eat you first, honey.
793
00:40:17,890.821 --> 00:40:18,610.821
That's cold.
794
00:40:18,760.821 --> 00:40:20,50.821
It is, it is.
795
00:40:20,50.821 --> 00:40:21,130.821
It's self preservation.
796
00:40:21,130.821 --> 00:40:21,580.821
I know.
797
00:40:21,790.821 --> 00:40:25,60.821
Or when I have my dog out with me out swimming and I'm like, don't get eaten.
798
00:40:25,800.821 --> 00:40:26,970.821
however dark.
799
00:40:27,120.821 --> 00:40:27,690.821
so.
800
00:40:28,455.821 --> 00:40:30,45.821
Seals watching.
801
00:40:30,45.821 --> 00:40:34,135.821
I think it would be a great business opportunity for anyone in New Zealand to actually have Orca watching.
802
00:40:34,705.821 --> 00:40:38,15.821
But this is like true, like who we are, the, the, being.
803
00:40:38,15.821 --> 00:40:43,315.821
It's funny how to make a transition from, truly holes in heads and, you know, and, and orcas eating baby, seals.
804
00:40:43,315.821 --> 00:40:43,465.821
Yeah.
805
00:40:43,825.821 --> 00:40:51,755.821
but, I do, I am curious though, like finishing, you know, like you did mention global warming and heat indexes.
806
00:40:51,755.821 --> 00:40:54,935.821
I assume our heat is rising because we're having issues.
807
00:40:54,935.821 --> 00:41:01,100.821
Some places in the United States, like Balmouth Valley, it's heat in the excess has actually keeps going up and up.
808
00:41:01,475.821 --> 00:41:01,805.821
Yeah.
809
00:41:01,885.821 --> 00:41:15,485.821
parts of California are not, some are like Napa is, but then like Washington State, Columbia Valley is not like we're, we're, we're seeing resilience in some places and real impacts in others and really don't know why yet.
810
00:41:15,515.821 --> 00:41:23,825.821
So what's going on? Like, are you seeing this happen happening? I think, First of all, Hawks Bay going back for, I don't know how many 30, 40 years could rip in Cabernet.
811
00:41:23,825.821 --> 00:41:25,565.821
10 outta 10 years, we don't have an issue.
812
00:41:25,595.821 --> 00:41:25,925.821
Right.
813
00:41:25,955.821 --> 00:41:37,680.821
with a great long dry growing season, but with the caveat Is that, now we are seeing a little bit more weather incidents, so if we get easterlies or if the ocean temperature's warm.
814
00:41:37,730.821 --> 00:41:40,40.821
we got a huge cyclone in 2023.
815
00:41:40,90.821 --> 00:41:41,650.821
Now that was supposed to be a one in.
816
00:41:42,220.821 --> 00:41:50,970.821
100 year storm and it's turned out to be a one and 50 year storm now, It's not happening overnight, but that knocked out a lot of vineyards and, caused a lot of issues.
817
00:41:51,400.821 --> 00:41:54,190.821
some were fine because they were later ripening and everything.
818
00:41:54,530.821 --> 00:42:00,80.821
We always do seem to get a little bit of rain in March that forces our hand with picking some of the whites and things.
819
00:42:00,320.821 --> 00:42:01,220.821
Oh, that would be.
820
00:42:01,360.821 --> 00:42:04,450.821
and so people understand we're inverse of, of here.
821
00:42:04,990.821 --> 00:42:06,10.821
That's anti is welcome.
822
00:42:06,230.821 --> 00:42:07,280.821
So this is like harvest.
823
00:42:07,280.821 --> 00:42:08,270.821
north is warmer.
824
00:42:08,300.821 --> 00:42:08,600.821
Yeah.
825
00:42:09,440.821 --> 00:42:13,580.821
and cyclones go in the opposite direction of hurricanes, but they're the same thing.
826
00:42:14,540.821 --> 00:42:15,650.821
Oh, I did not know that.
827
00:42:15,650.821 --> 00:42:15,651.821
Yeah.
828
00:42:15,656.821 --> 00:42:15,710.821
Yeah.
829
00:42:15,710.821 --> 00:42:16,70.821
Look at that.
830
00:42:16,70.821 --> 00:42:17,30.821
You learned some trivia.
831
00:42:17,120.821 --> 00:42:17,630.821
Oh wow.
832
00:42:17,690.821 --> 00:42:18,290.821
That's not trivia.
833
00:42:18,290.821 --> 00:42:18,830.821
That's important.
834
00:42:18,830.821 --> 00:42:21,320.821
I'm like, how do I not know this? This is bad.
835
00:42:21,320.821 --> 00:42:21,560.821
Okay.
836
00:42:21,560.821 --> 00:42:21,710.821
All right.
837
00:42:21,760.821 --> 00:42:30,250.821
and so yeah, we see some more weather incidents, but to me that is all the more reason and, and, and why a lot more people are going.
838
00:42:30,575.821 --> 00:42:38,105.821
to organic wine growing because having a floor of grass under the vines mops up a lot of water.
839
00:42:38,135.821 --> 00:42:38,765.821
Yes, it does.
840
00:42:38,825.821 --> 00:42:50,75.821
And if we need to make premium wines, like, it's getting to the stage, not quite there, but it is going there where if you're a mid-size, certainly a, you know, or smaller producing, you say I'm a premium.
841
00:42:50,555.821 --> 00:42:53,495.821
If you're not organic, people are starting to go.
842
00:42:53,495.821 --> 00:42:56,555.821
Why not? You know, because, it just means you're not spending the money.
843
00:42:56,555.821 --> 00:42:59,45.821
Craigie range is in a big conversion right now.
844
00:42:59,45.821 --> 00:43:03,525.821
they're gonna, you know, the one when they flipped a few years back, I was working for them.
845
00:43:03,775.821 --> 00:43:09,655.821
All of a sudden out another winery up the road went Alpha Domus and that, and they start going, oh shit, you know, we better do this too.
846
00:43:09,715.821 --> 00:43:11,305.821
Oh, alpha Dous went organic.
847
00:43:11,355.821 --> 00:43:11,975.821
Oh wow.
848
00:43:11,975.821 --> 00:43:12,520.821
Oh yeah.
849
00:43:12,580.821 --> 00:43:16,150.821
So, so all of a sudden they start going, Hmm, we better too.
850
00:43:16,180.821 --> 00:43:18,910.821
You know, we kinda always wanted to, we know it's the right thing to do.
851
00:43:18,940.821 --> 00:43:19,210.821
Yeah.
852
00:43:19,450.821 --> 00:43:28,280.821
And, but it's for a few reasons is, you know, you talked to old George Fisch from, Villa Maria, and he would always say Our most resilient vineyards are the certified organic ones.
853
00:43:28,280.821 --> 00:43:32,800.821
It's, you know, you get, you definitely get spon or, or, more elasticity in the skins.
854
00:43:33,190.821 --> 00:43:33,310.821
Yes.
855
00:43:33,310.821 --> 00:43:38,740.821
The Raku, which is like the little bit of stem that attaches to the berry Yes.
856
00:43:38,800.821 --> 00:43:44,20.821
That gets a little bit more elongated and so the berries are more open and you get more airflow.
857
00:43:44,50.821 --> 00:43:44,350.821
Yeah.
858
00:43:44,560.821 --> 00:43:47,740.821
That's through like foliar sprays and nutrients through there.
859
00:43:47,770.821 --> 00:43:49,870.821
Instead of just the old whack it with weed spray.
860
00:43:49,870.821 --> 00:43:56,440.821
And nowadays New Zealand, some of my friends will knock, sustainable wine growing New Zealand 'cause they say it's not quite enough.
861
00:43:56,470.821 --> 00:43:57,220.821
And, they're right.
862
00:43:57,220.821 --> 00:44:08,620.821
But I think what New Zealand Wine Growers has done a good job by instilling that whatever it was 20 years ago, is it gave everybody a really good sort of first step in that direction.
863
00:44:08,620.821 --> 00:44:13,420.821
And they really kept a keen eye on a lot of the sprays out there.
864
00:44:13,670.821 --> 00:44:17,690.821
they basically had withholding limits on a lot of the pesticides and herbicides.
865
00:44:17,720.821 --> 00:44:19,370.821
So that you just couldn't use 'em anyway.
866
00:44:19,370.821 --> 00:44:27,670.821
They didn't make sense to use 'em because if you, you know, say like a, like an herbicide or a pesticide because, your fruit's getting a little ripe.
867
00:44:27,720.821 --> 00:44:34,850.821
And, there's some fungus going on Well, if you can't pick the wine for another 45 days, that's gonna throw you out the window anyway.
868
00:44:34,880.821 --> 00:44:36,500.821
You wouldn't wanna spray it in January.
869
00:44:36,500.821 --> 00:44:37,520.821
It doesn't make any sense.
870
00:44:37,790.821 --> 00:44:38,90.821
Yeah.
871
00:44:38,90.821 --> 00:44:38,210.821
You, yeah.
872
00:44:38,215.821 --> 00:44:41,90.821
So all, all right, well, I guess we gotta find other solutions.
873
00:44:41,90.821 --> 00:44:47,840.821
So then we find these soaps in bio things and different, you know, and so that's how technology Yes.
874
00:44:47,840.821 --> 00:44:49,400.821
Catches up by demand, you know? Yeah.
875
00:44:49,405.821 --> 00:44:49,415.821
Absolute.
876
00:44:49,435.821 --> 00:44:49,815.821
Oh, absolutely.
877
00:44:49,815.821 --> 00:44:55,70.821
So these companies go, okay, well you can't use that anymore, so we're gonna come in with this, these bio sprays and things like that.
878
00:44:55,70.821 --> 00:44:58,320.821
and which are way better for the environment and way better for people.
879
00:44:58,440.821 --> 00:44:58,680.821
Oh yeah.
880
00:44:58,710.821 --> 00:45:00,900.821
And the other thing is like, if you're.
881
00:45:01,380.821 --> 00:45:13,970.821
trying to make premium wine, yeah, there is, you know, you will crop lower if you're organic, but you will crop better and you'll get more concentration, you'll get better fruit, you know, and, you know, that's, the name of the game is not, it's no longer volume.
882
00:45:14,0.821 --> 00:45:14,240.821
Mm-hmm.
883
00:45:14,300.821 --> 00:45:17,930.821
It can't be, I think right now, the market right now is teaching us that, you know? Yeah.
884
00:45:18,80.821 --> 00:45:19,40.821
Oh yeah.
885
00:45:19,140.821 --> 00:45:23,180.821
and this was, coming for a long time 'cause it was pretty obvious 'cause beer got hit first.
886
00:45:23,230.821 --> 00:45:34,720.821
And, you know, I would watch, and I've been watching 'cause one of the things I always do is the smartest people in the wine industry, the people who actually, or in the beer and in the liquor biz.
887
00:45:35,680.821 --> 00:45:36,640.821
They know what sells.
888
00:45:36,640.821 --> 00:45:42,730.821
It's the wine shop, like the little shop owners, even the little bodegas, like you walk into a bodega, they know what sells.
889
00:45:42,980.821 --> 00:45:44,510.821
and so they're gonna give more shelf space to it.
890
00:45:44,510.821 --> 00:45:51,290.821
So I would roll into like the local bodegas and see how much, you know, they always had the great beer selection, tiny wine selection.
891
00:45:51,650.821 --> 00:45:56,990.821
But then all of a sudden you start seeing the wine staying static, but the beer slowly disappearing.
892
00:45:57,230.821 --> 00:46:00,470.821
And what's there instead? those, seltzers.
893
00:46:00,500.821 --> 00:46:00,950.821
RTDs.
894
00:46:00,950.821 --> 00:46:01,820.821
Exactly.
895
00:46:02,120.821 --> 00:46:03,20.821
ready to drinks.
896
00:46:03,50.821 --> 00:46:08,380.821
and that as I saw that going over the years, I'm like, oh, beer is dead.
897
00:46:08,470.821 --> 00:46:09,670.821
and that was scary to watch it.
898
00:46:09,670.821 --> 00:46:13,30.821
And, because in fact, I run the Philly Beer School too, and we saw that.
899
00:46:13,35.821 --> 00:46:17,110.821
I was like, okay, we we're gonna have to, supplant a lot of our beer producing classes.
900
00:46:17,110.821 --> 00:46:19,900.821
We, because there's not gonna be anyone down the pike in five years.
901
00:46:19,900.821 --> 00:46:21,460.821
Like there's, nobody's gonna be wanting to make.
902
00:46:21,775.821 --> 00:46:22,495.821
Making beer.
903
00:46:22,495.821 --> 00:46:25,945.821
It's like, it's gonna be dead for, and there's something weird about beer.
904
00:46:25,945.821 --> 00:46:26,965.821
It's, it's very cyclical.
905
00:46:26,965.821 --> 00:46:33,715.821
But so you saw that and you saw like, all right, yeah, the lower end, like Yeah, people have choices and Yeah.
906
00:46:33,715.821 --> 00:46:38,465.821
If you're making a generic product, basically, largely, whatever's the best generic product is gonna win.
907
00:46:38,495.821 --> 00:46:44,15.821
And it just happens to be right now, is those, you know, the modern day zeuss, because I, I grew up with Zema.
908
00:46:44,420.821 --> 00:46:48,485.821
oh my God was gonna say, you've been around long enough like me, where you've seen these things.
909
00:46:48,485.821 --> 00:46:55,145.821
I mean, yeah, think about what beers were around, you know, even when Crossings reopened in the nineties.
910
00:46:55,195.821 --> 00:47:00,925.821
it was rare for us to have Sierra Nevada and Heineken, the people would come to us just because we Oh, because of that.
911
00:47:00,925.821 --> 00:47:09,415.821
I remember when Sam Adams, because it became like, first was released and it was like, it was a revelation, like, oh, this is Oh, beer.
912
00:47:09,475.821 --> 00:47:10,20.821
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
913
00:47:10,315.821 --> 00:47:15,755.821
Oh, I mean, I grew up, I mean, it was, you know, it was, you know, like if you ordered, No import.
914
00:47:15,755.821 --> 00:47:17,765.821
It was, yeah, it was at best Heineken.
915
00:47:17,855.821 --> 00:47:18,95.821
Yeah.
916
00:47:18,100.821 --> 00:47:19,510.821
But everything was Budweiser.
917
00:47:19,510.821 --> 00:47:20,530.821
Like, it was nothing.
918
00:47:20,530.821 --> 00:47:22,590.821
But, it was a, yeah, it came a long way.
919
00:47:22,590.821 --> 00:47:25,470.821
I mean, think about it that way as like, oh, insanely great.
920
00:47:25,470.821 --> 00:47:25,530.821
Yeah.
921
00:47:25,590.821 --> 00:47:34,320.821
And, but it does happen to go through these boom bust cycles because of, you know, 'cause you, you are hitting a, younger clientele, and they are because it's a lower price point.
922
00:47:34,320.821 --> 00:47:38,220.821
And so therefore you are getting, and that is, that, that's, that's very moveable.
923
00:47:38,220.821 --> 00:47:42,600.821
This is the first time in our lifetimes that we saw wine being supplanted by something now.
924
00:47:42,990.821 --> 00:47:44,70.821
And that's scary everyone.
925
00:47:44,340.821 --> 00:47:52,110.821
But I'm, you know, I have to do a lot of research and they say the American wine population, drinking for fine wine isn't changing.
926
00:47:52,170.821 --> 00:47:54,630.821
Definitely not with millennials like they are.
927
00:47:54,840.821 --> 00:47:56,100.821
They just have to make a little bit of money.
928
00:47:56,100.821 --> 00:47:57,810.821
great research has been shown that they just.
929
00:47:58,485.821 --> 00:48:03,505.821
They're spending the same amount of money, per by percentage of their income on fine wine.
930
00:48:03,865.821 --> 00:48:09,535.821
It's just that they're right now not making as much as Gen X or the boomers before them at this time of their life.
931
00:48:09,595.821 --> 00:48:09,745.821
Yeah.
932
00:48:09,985.821 --> 00:48:11,5.821
But they're scaling up.
933
00:48:11,35.821 --> 00:48:12,745.821
They're gonna be there, they're fine.
934
00:48:12,895.821 --> 00:48:13,915.821
They boomers are dying.
935
00:48:13,945.821 --> 00:48:15,476.821
They're gonna get all that money, you know? Yeah.
936
00:48:15,481.821 --> 00:48:16,15.821
They're just, yeah.
937
00:48:16,45.821 --> 00:48:17,185.821
Oh, they're, they're gonna be fine.
938
00:48:17,785.821 --> 00:48:27,865.821
Gen Z I've had a lot of conversations in the wine industry, and winemakers, and they're not worried like, fine wine producers are like, no, they're gonna be here like they are.
939
00:48:27,895.821 --> 00:48:28,910.821
It's just, I agree.
940
00:48:28,910.821 --> 00:48:29,35.821
I agree.
941
00:48:29,65.821 --> 00:48:40,135.821
Right now, like they're at most 27 and honestly, in our classes here, one of the reasons why we run public classes is to see who's showing up for like a food and wine class.
942
00:48:40,135.821 --> 00:48:44,975.821
Like last night one of my instructors did a, a wine and cheese pairing class.
943
00:48:45,365.821 --> 00:48:47,375.821
Now that usually trends older, but.
944
00:48:48,230.821 --> 00:48:50,720.821
It wasn't, it was everyone was in their twenties.
945
00:48:50,900.821 --> 00:48:51,290.821
Oh, that's cool.
946
00:48:51,470.821 --> 00:48:52,820.821
Mid to late twenties.
947
00:48:53,330.821 --> 00:48:54,140.821
And yeah.
948
00:48:54,140.821 --> 00:48:55,940.821
And that's just, it's great market research.
949
00:48:55,940.821 --> 00:49:00,590.821
It's like, oh, the people who are really interested in wine right now are not who you expect.
950
00:49:01,70.821 --> 00:49:06,920.821
And I think, I'm pretty sure it was you that said to me years ago that this school is an affordable luxury.
951
00:49:06,920.821 --> 00:49:08,150.821
I believe you said that.
952
00:49:08,200.821 --> 00:49:09,400.821
I'm wise beyond my ears.
953
00:49:09,405.821 --> 00:49:09,505.821
Yeah.
954
00:49:09,510.821 --> 00:49:12,860.821
that's a really good point Your class is, you know, especially a one off like that.
955
00:49:12,860.821 --> 00:49:16,505.821
It's, you know, so affordable and fun to do and like a great thing to do on a given night.
956
00:49:16,595.821 --> 00:49:17,105.821
Oh yeah.
957
00:49:17,120.821 --> 00:49:17,420.821
Oh yeah.
958
00:49:17,420.821 --> 00:49:20,935.821
And people wanna learn that, so it should kind of skew towards, younger people.
959
00:49:20,935.821 --> 00:49:24,905.821
It's like a fun night out, you know? Oh, and I know, I, I, I love scaring people in the beginning.
960
00:49:24,935.821 --> 00:49:28,85.821
'cause I always know that I'll, they'll love me by the end and I just, I have that.
961
00:49:28,385.821 --> 00:49:32,855.821
No, I just, you know, I, because I just, I just, I have, I have resting wasp face, I call it.
962
00:49:32,855.821 --> 00:49:35,945.821
Like, I just, like, people look at me like, oh, that man is mean.
963
00:49:35,945.821 --> 00:49:37,145.821
And he probably hates me.
964
00:49:37,355.821 --> 00:49:39,65.821
And then he, then I just like start talking.
965
00:49:39,65.821 --> 00:49:40,685.821
He is like, oh, he's just weird.
966
00:49:40,895.821 --> 00:49:41,15.821
Yeah.
967
00:49:44,285.821 --> 00:49:45,305.821
I just thought of something.
968
00:49:45,305.821 --> 00:49:50,545.821
We did a dinner, over somewhere in Fairmont with, some pairing dinner with you.
969
00:49:50,600.821 --> 00:49:50,690.821
Yes.
970
00:49:50,690.821 --> 00:49:52,520.821
And, yeah, it was a, I think it was a SmackDown.
971
00:49:52,580.821 --> 00:49:54,170.821
Yeah, it was a SmackDown, that's right.
972
00:49:54,170.821 --> 00:49:54,535.821
A small SmackDown.
973
00:49:54,585.821 --> 00:49:57,900.821
and I think I had two wines at the time or something, maybe three.
974
00:49:58,290.821 --> 00:50:04,470.821
You ran across the street in the middle of the dinner and went into your school and he came back and he goes, listen, everybody, listen up.
975
00:50:04,710.821 --> 00:50:10,650.821
I just pulled Dan's exam from his last test he took in my school.
976
00:50:10,890.821 --> 00:50:14,220.821
He got every blind wine, right? Nine outta 10.
977
00:50:14,220.821 --> 00:50:16,620.821
You know the one he got wrong, Marlboro? Seven.
978
00:50:16,675.821 --> 00:50:17,245.821
Oh, that's hilarious.
979
00:50:17,305.821 --> 00:50:17,995.821
Oh, that's evil.
980
00:50:18,25.821 --> 00:50:18,740.821
Oh, that's so evil.
981
00:50:19,220.821 --> 00:50:20,155.821
I was like, thanks Keith.
982
00:50:20,425.821 --> 00:50:20,815.821
Thanks buddy.
983
00:50:20,815.821 --> 00:50:20,995.821
Yep.
984
00:50:21,25.821 --> 00:50:21,415.821
Yep.
985
00:50:21,505.821 --> 00:50:21,895.821
That's it.
986
00:50:21,985.821 --> 00:50:22,345.821
That's it.
987
00:50:22,345.821 --> 00:50:23,65.821
That's the only one.
988
00:50:23,65.821 --> 00:50:24,505.821
And here he is trying to like, yeah.
989
00:50:24,565.821 --> 00:50:24,895.821
Nope.
990
00:50:24,955.821 --> 00:50:25,225.821
Nope.
991
00:50:25,255.821 --> 00:50:25,675.821
That's it.
992
00:50:25,705.821 --> 00:50:26,425.821
That's awesome.
993
00:50:26,695.821 --> 00:50:27,415.821
That is awesome.
994
00:50:27,445.821 --> 00:50:34,115.821
That is, that is, that is, yeah, that, yeah, that tracks all too well.
995
00:50:34,145.821 --> 00:50:34,325.821
Yeah.
996
00:50:34,325.821 --> 00:50:34,895.821
That was awesome.
997
00:50:34,925.821 --> 00:50:35,855.821
I, yeah, I do.
998
00:50:36,185.821 --> 00:50:37,565.821
Fairmont was such a great neighborhood.
999
00:50:37,645.821 --> 00:50:40,315.821
so this is fantastic.
1000
00:50:40,315.821 --> 00:50:48,695.821
one thing I just wanna double back just so people understand one thing about, organic Because organic is this big, messy thing in the US there's a big difference between.
1001
00:50:49,10.821 --> 00:50:53,810.821
Wine that is made fermented organically, and then it's grown organically.
1002
00:50:53,810.821 --> 00:50:54,320.821
Exactly.
1003
00:50:54,430.821 --> 00:50:57,610.821
when you're just talking about growing organically, what are you talking about? Yeah.
1004
00:50:57,610.821 --> 00:50:58,210.821
So there are.
1005
00:50:58,555.821 --> 00:50:59,395.821
two different things.
1006
00:50:59,395.821 --> 00:51:02,565.821
And to me, the wine making side is a lot simpler.
1007
00:51:02,565.821 --> 00:51:05,85.821
We just, you know, there's certain products we don't use.
1008
00:51:05,95.821 --> 00:51:06,445.821
I wouldn't use 'em anyway.
1009
00:51:06,495.821 --> 00:51:11,525.821
Most of this stuff, the sulfur levels that, you know, you're under a bit of restriction from.
1010
00:51:11,525.821 --> 00:51:17,45.821
But the weird thing is, in the US you're still not allowed to use potassium out by sulfate and call it organic.
1011
00:51:17,75.821 --> 00:51:20,435.821
but you're allowed to use sulfur gas, which is so dangerous.
1012
00:51:21,515.821 --> 00:51:21,605.821
Yes.
1013
00:51:21,605.821 --> 00:51:22,355.821
It's, oh, it's insane.
1014
00:51:22,595.821 --> 00:51:23,675.821
It's absolutely insane.
1015
00:51:23,735.821 --> 00:51:30,55.821
So that's why I wanna stress this 'cause, and 'cause our, the US laws are so weird when it comes to, SO two use.
1016
00:51:30,115.821 --> 00:51:32,905.821
So, but anyway, go back to the vineyard growing.
1017
00:51:32,905.821 --> 00:51:38,755.821
back to the vineyard, what that means is you can't use weed sprays, you can't use any herbicides or pesticides.
1018
00:51:38,755.821 --> 00:51:40,345.821
I mean, that's the simplest way to put it.
1019
00:51:40,345.821 --> 00:51:40,465.821
Yeah.
1020
00:51:40,805.821 --> 00:51:44,165.821
and it doesn't mean we don't do other things to mitigate weed growth.
1021
00:51:44,165.821 --> 00:51:45,365.821
We do ine mowing.
1022
00:51:45,365.821 --> 00:51:45,815.821
We have.
1023
00:51:45,820.821 --> 00:51:55,690.821
You know, people do they, you know, there typically not much spraying, but we do other things to, you know, they do cultivation or they'll, you know, they do other things to, because Exactly.
1024
00:51:55,690.821 --> 00:51:55,840.821
Yeah.
1025
00:51:55,840.821 --> 00:51:59,500.821
You can't have too much competition around the base of the vine.
1026
00:51:59,620.821 --> 00:51:59,920.821
Right.
1027
00:52:00,100.821 --> 00:52:01,480.821
but some competition is good.
1028
00:52:01,510.821 --> 00:52:01,780.821
Yeah.
1029
00:52:02,60.821 --> 00:52:02,960.821
you know, vines are funny.
1030
00:52:02,960.821 --> 00:52:08,472.821
They like to be just on the edge of being happy and stressed or like raising a kid, you know what I mean? thank you, thank you.
1031
00:52:08,680.821 --> 00:52:15,120.821
That's how I always say, people always get offended when I say that, you know, you wanna like to can't hungry, give a kid everything he wants, or they get spoiled, you know? yeah.
1032
00:52:15,180.821 --> 00:52:16,620.821
No, they'll just be, you know.
1033
00:52:17,280.821 --> 00:52:17,490.821
Yeah.
1034
00:52:17,520.821 --> 00:52:28,840.821
So, there're, there's that and, you know, there's basically, I think that's the simplest way to put it, that is, is organic growing, is no pesticides, no herbicides.
1035
00:52:29,110.821 --> 00:52:33,610.821
The big one is the big hurdle for a lot of people around the world is the weed sprays under the vine.
1036
00:52:33,610.821 --> 00:52:52,370.821
That's why I keep going back to The base because, that is also Kind of the most important thing as well because, there is A kingdom below our feet of microbes and baby things that can contribute to, these amazing symbiotic relationships under your feet in the soil that, can give, vine strength but it's not developed overnight.
1037
00:52:52,370.821 --> 00:52:55,610.821
It takes years and years for your soil health and soil development.
1038
00:52:56,0.821 --> 00:53:06,80.821
There's under vine plantings, we do fix trying to fix nitrogen with clover in between the vines and all these kind of things we do, to help with.
1039
00:53:06,80.821 --> 00:53:12,580.821
It could be, you know, this flower brings these type of, bugs in that fight, these other kind of bugs, you know? Exactly.
1040
00:53:12,580.821 --> 00:53:13,420.821
Yes, exactly.
1041
00:53:13,420.821 --> 00:53:13,630.821
Yeah.
1042
00:53:13,630.821 --> 00:53:16,630.821
Because this is like, this is key to everywhere.
1043
00:53:16,730.821 --> 00:53:17,210.821
and what people.
1044
00:53:17,765.821 --> 00:53:18,635.821
Everything's underground.
1045
00:53:18,635.821 --> 00:53:21,305.821
Like everything that matters is underground.
1046
00:53:21,305.821 --> 00:53:27,600.821
Like, you know, the systems that are playing when people want to talk about te it's like, well, it's also, yeah.
1047
00:53:27,630.821 --> 00:53:38,735.821
No, it's, it's, it is your vine health requires healthy soils that are vibrant and alive, which something we didn't used to do, used to be we, you basically, it's big kill, big change and incorporate, incorporate.
1048
00:53:38,735.821 --> 00:53:45,215.821
Man, man, over nature, we're gonna, you know, but no, we realize we do absolutely need to have those, and yeah.
1049
00:53:45,215.821 --> 00:53:54,355.821
What, what are you like here in California? Be, well, not, not right now in California, but like the glassy wing, sharp shooters are such a problem because of the bacteria that they spread.
1050
00:53:54,715.821 --> 00:53:58,425.821
Well, you know, how do you deal with that? instead of, you can't kill them.
1051
00:53:58,425.821 --> 00:54:03,405.821
So what you do is you create environments for them away from the vineyards, surrounding the vineyards.
1052
00:54:03,585.821 --> 00:54:03,915.821
Exactly.
1053
00:54:03,915.821 --> 00:54:09,325.821
For them to actually, get the plants, the sweet grasses that they want to thrive in.
1054
00:54:09,325.821 --> 00:54:10,375.821
Let them thrive there.
1055
00:54:10,465.821 --> 00:54:10,705.821
Mm-hmm.
1056
00:54:11,245.821 --> 00:54:17,975.821
even to animals, like, how are you gonna deal with unwanted vermin? Well, Raptor Nest are fun and wonderful.
1057
00:54:17,975.821 --> 00:54:20,525.821
I used to, you know, when in Cali, I at least love building those things.
1058
00:54:20,525.821 --> 00:54:29,95.821
You know, you can, like, there's all kinds of ways, no matter what, the systems you're trying there's always a way to actually think about how to build it.
1059
00:54:29,125.821 --> 00:54:38,225.821
Like, even in our, offices in Maine, I built, around our facility, a dead hedge largely because we needed a way so that.
1060
00:54:38,765.821 --> 00:54:42,755.821
Animals aren't coming really close to our studios 'cause they're making a lot of noise.
1061
00:54:43,35.821 --> 00:54:48,165.821
even with the soundproof, you could still hear the animals outside and our dogs, freaking out because there's animals.
1062
00:54:48,165.821 --> 00:54:56,675.821
So you build out a dead hedge and allow you to actually feed that with, give the mice things to eat so that they can actually naturally stop the tick population.
1063
00:54:56,730.821 --> 00:55:02,880.821
if you think about how to build out the systems and help it, you can create incredibly great environments.
1064
00:55:02,910.821 --> 00:55:04,395.821
It just takes a lot of thinking and a lot of work.
1065
00:55:04,395.821 --> 00:55:05,484.821
lot of thinking, a lot of work.
1066
00:55:05,484.821 --> 00:55:06,504.821
Sometimes it's really hard.
1067
00:55:06,504.821 --> 00:55:10,94.821
And, you know, you mentioned the Gibbick gravels earlier where, a lot of my Malbec comes from.
1068
00:55:10,434.821 --> 00:55:13,674.821
it was a river until 1863 and there was an earthquake.
1069
00:55:13,724.821 --> 00:55:17,114.821
The river took a shorter path to the ocean, left all these rocky soils behind.
1070
00:55:17,114.821 --> 00:55:26,544.821
Few Viticulturists, in Hawkes Bay fought the council 'cause they wanted to quarry the whole thing because Old River Stone makes great concrete, Fast forward, now it's like the most expensive land in the country.
1071
00:55:26,544.821 --> 00:55:30,854.821
And there's, every winery around New Zealand wants to have a plot of Gibble gravels.
1072
00:55:30,914.821 --> 00:55:31,214.821
Oh yeah.
1073
00:55:31,244.821 --> 00:55:33,194.821
Because it's really interesting terre wall and everything.
1074
00:55:33,194.821 --> 00:55:40,854.821
But when I first arrived in New Zealand, they were having major virus issues there, with leaf roll, leaf roll three virus.
1075
00:55:40,914.821 --> 00:55:41,34.821
Oh God.
1076
00:55:41,104.821 --> 00:55:44,874.821
there's, planting food research in New Zealand and a couple other outfits.
1077
00:55:44,874.821 --> 00:55:46,614.821
Some of the wineries all got together.
1078
00:55:46,974.821 --> 00:55:53,914.821
And what they were realizing is there was this, what is it called again? these little mites, basically, coming out of the.
1079
00:55:54,289.821 --> 00:55:59,954.821
Ground because there was nothing for them to feed on in the soil because it's all rocky soil.
1080
00:55:59,984.821 --> 00:56:00,194.821
Yeah.
1081
00:56:00,194.821 --> 00:56:03,504.821
They try to come up and and it was a particular problem in the gravels.
1082
00:56:03,504.821 --> 00:56:05,244.821
It was a little bit of an issue in some other areas.
1083
00:56:05,274.821 --> 00:56:07,549.821
And they had to rogue vines and replant and everything.
1084
00:56:07,879.821 --> 00:56:13,159.821
But what they realized is, they need to give them something reason to stay down in the, the ground down.
1085
00:56:13,159.821 --> 00:56:13,519.821
Yeah.
1086
00:56:13,579.821 --> 00:56:16,279.821
Because they were the actual vector of the virus.
1087
00:56:16,329.821 --> 00:56:18,129.821
So they were going up in Yep, yep.
1088
00:56:18,129.821 --> 00:56:26,919.821
And then, so not only that, if you have one vine in the middle of a row that used to know has the virus, you have to rogue the one across from it, the other side and the two next to it as well.
1089
00:56:26,919.821 --> 00:56:27,39.821
Oh god.
1090
00:56:27,129.821 --> 00:56:27,579.821
That's right.
1091
00:56:27,579.821 --> 00:56:34,889.821
So it was big project and it was a really interesting one, where they had GPS tracking on and everything, and they've pretty much got it under control now.
1092
00:56:34,889.821 --> 00:56:38,919.821
But, they really had to watch these little mites that would get up into the Oh wow.
1093
00:56:38,924.821 --> 00:56:40,299.821
And so it was all kind of re and, you know, you.
1094
00:56:40,689.821 --> 00:56:44,619.821
You go up to a vine and you peel back a little, the bark, and you go, there's one right there.
1095
00:56:44,619.821 --> 00:56:45,489.821
That one's got a virus.
1096
00:56:45,489.821 --> 00:56:46,689.821
You know? Oh God.
1097
00:56:46,749.821 --> 00:56:49,209.821
And so that is like a perfect kind of project without like.
1098
00:56:50,34.821 --> 00:56:58,204.821
You know, I'm, I, I don't know this for a fact or where it happened, but I know that there would've been some, like, pretty systematic sprays going on.
1099
00:56:58,234.821 --> 00:57:00,904.821
Oh, let's just nuke 'em, you know? Exactly.
1100
00:57:00,974.821 --> 00:57:02,91.821
and then what happens a year later? It's worse.
1101
00:57:02,474.821 --> 00:57:02,804.821
Yeah.
1102
00:57:03,104.821 --> 00:57:03,584.821
Oh, yeah.
1103
00:57:03,584.821 --> 00:57:07,214.821
now, now they're resistant and now they're like three times the size and they're angry.
1104
00:57:07,244.821 --> 00:57:12,674.821
So then that's where you get inter, inter row plantings and things like that, that they're, they're trying to mitigate in other ways.
1105
00:57:12,984.821 --> 00:57:15,24.821
but so there's, and there's always issues.
1106
00:57:15,24.821 --> 00:57:16,284.821
Every year things change.
1107
00:57:16,284.821 --> 00:57:18,324.821
You know, birds are a big thing for us in New Zealand.
1108
00:57:18,324.821 --> 00:57:19,674.821
We have so many birds in New Zealand.
1109
00:57:19,674.821 --> 00:57:21,534.821
they'll just decimate an entire vineyard.
1110
00:57:21,594.821 --> 00:57:23,334.821
so we net everything.
1111
00:57:23,409.821 --> 00:57:31,769.821
and then the latest technology in the last probably only five years, well, maybe seven years, is fricking lasers.
1112
00:57:32,129.821 --> 00:57:32,849.821
Really? Yeah.
1113
00:57:32,849.821 --> 00:57:36,779.821
So we have these harm, they're very, they don't hurt anybody or anything.
1114
00:57:36,779.821 --> 00:57:36,839.821
Yeah.
1115
00:57:36,839.821 --> 00:57:39,719.821
And they sit at a, light spectrum that we can't really see.
1116
00:57:39,779.821 --> 00:57:40,19.821
Oh.
1117
00:57:40,49.821 --> 00:57:41,399.821
Unless it actually hits the ground.
1118
00:57:41,399.821 --> 00:57:42,509.821
Then you see where it's pointed to.
1119
00:57:42,509.821 --> 00:57:42,899.821
Yeah.
1120
00:57:43,209.821 --> 00:57:44,139.821
but the birds hate 'em.
1121
00:57:44,469.821 --> 00:57:45,544.821
Oh, this is fantastic.
1122
00:57:45,549.821 --> 00:57:50,219.821
And they go random patterns and everything, and now everybody's putting 'em up in the vineyards oh my God.
1123
00:57:50,219.821 --> 00:57:51,689.821
Laser light shows for birds.
1124
00:57:51,689.821 --> 00:57:52,709.821
I mean, come on.
1125
00:57:52,709.821 --> 00:57:53,429.821
This is awesome.
1126
00:57:53,459.821 --> 00:58:02,609.821
No, I lived on a vineyard when they first came out and I was on, lived on one of the first vineyards that had it, and, I was in my kitchen and I saw, you know, a light shine into my kitchen window.
1127
00:58:02,639.821 --> 00:58:04,234.821
What the fuck was that? You're like, scared me.
1128
00:58:04,354.821 --> 00:58:09,144.821
Is this black hawk down? What's going on here? the next day I went out and I was watching it The birds.
1129
00:58:09,144.821 --> 00:58:14,324.821
I swear they were all like huddled behind the headland going what the hell is that? let's get the hell outta here.
1130
00:58:14,374.821 --> 00:58:19,249.821
they're so smart and instinctive that like, if it was a normal pattern, they would pick it up and know it.
1131
00:58:19,309.821 --> 00:58:25,414.821
Oh, really? So it goes on all random patterns and Oh, you have to keep moving it with the ripening of the fruit, God and everything.
1132
00:58:25,414.821 --> 00:58:27,844.821
Well, on that note, this was awesome, man.
1133
00:58:27,844.821 --> 00:58:29,494.821
This was so great to see you again.
1134
00:58:29,494.821 --> 00:58:30,544.821
It's been so long.
1135
00:58:30,854.821 --> 00:58:35,274.821
and I'm sure we went way longer than we thought we would check us out@decibelwines.com.
1136
00:58:35,334.821 --> 00:58:39,654.821
I'm, at Decibel Wines on Instagram and at Decibel.
1137
00:58:39,654.821 --> 00:58:46,674.821
Dan, if you wanna see some more random content, I'm now at Decibel, Dan Zand, on Instagram.
1138
00:58:46,674.821 --> 00:58:50,94.821
And That's more personal stuff, but, drop me a line if you're coming to New Zealand.
1139
00:58:50,144.821 --> 00:58:51,104.821
we love visitors.
1140
00:58:51,104.821 --> 00:58:56,294.821
I know some people, it's like a once in a lifetime trip and I know how long of a trip it is.
1141
00:58:56,294.821 --> 00:59:06,864.821
So I really like to take care of people when they come that far and, figure out what you like to do, whether it's just drink wine the whole time, or you want to go hiking or jump off a cliff or go golfing or surfing.
1142
00:59:06,864.821 --> 00:59:12,144.821
We have amazing surfing there All where all the good restaurants are in, in any given city and place there.
1143
00:59:12,144.821 --> 00:59:14,904.821
So, yeah, feel free to reach out and let's talk.
1144
00:59:14,964.821 --> 00:59:16,14.821
Well, that's perfect, man.
1145
00:59:16,14.821 --> 00:59:16,854.821
Well, on that note.
1146
00:59:16,854.821 --> 00:59:18,774.821
I'm gonna definitely have to come and hang out with you.
1147
00:59:18,954.821 --> 00:59:22,44.821
You gotta take a few weeks off and you don't even have to go to Australia.
1148
00:59:22,44.821 --> 00:59:23,244.821
Just hang in New Zealand though.
1149
00:59:23,304.821 --> 00:59:24,54.821
Thank you so much, man.
1150
00:59:24,54.821 --> 00:59:24,834.821
It was great having you.
1151
00:59:24,839.821 --> 00:59:25,159.821
Awesome.
1152
00:59:25,159.821 --> 00:59:25,559.821
Good to have you.
1153
00:59:27,104.821 --> 00:59:28,834.821
Thanks for listening to After Wine School.
1154
00:59:28,834.821 --> 00:59:34,164.821
If you enjoyed this episode, do us a favor—share it with a friend, leave a review, or post about it.
1155
00:59:34,864.821 --> 00:59:37,984.821
That stuff really helps us keep the corks popping and the mics rolling.