TRANSCRIPTION 🔗
Speaker: Welcome to Transformative Principal. I'm your host, Jethro Jones, and today I am talking about a new project that I'm working on called Project Paideia, and what it is is we are creating an AI build-a-thon for teens in Utah County. If you are interested, I hope you'll join us, uh, with some teens a- ages 13 to 18 on November 21st, and here's my interview.
Thanks so much for listening Well, uh, first of all, tell me about your background. You come from the education world, is that correct?
Speaker 2: That's right. I was a school principal for many years, English teacher before that, and then in 2020 I left, uh, education, uh, proper to be a consultant and help schools implement things and help leaders and districts do, uh, some cool things with their, with their staff and students.
Speaker: And what is Project Paideia?
Speaker 2: So Project Paideia is, uh, is, uh, an effort by a group of dads to try to create something better for our kids for their education. And, uh, we've gone through a lot of different things, and some guys have created software, some guys have, um, uh, are homeschool dads and are just, uh, working with their kids and things like that.
And so what, uh, the Project Paideia Buildathon is, is we decided that we wanted an opportunity for kids to experience the power of AI in a positive way where they're building something. And so we said, let's create a buildathon where they can build something and not just be focused on consuming AI slop all the time
Speaker: And so, uh, so this Build-A-Thon, you've got your, your first, uh, first one of those coming up, don't you?
Speaker 2: Yes, that is on November 21st at Utah Valley University. We're really excited about it, and it's gonna be a great opportunity for kids to come, uh, teenagers 13 to 18, to come and actually build something that solves a problem in their world, and that, that can be whatever they want. If it means that they wanna make a game that they like that they don't have to pay for, then they can build that game.
If they wanna do, uh, something to help cure cancer, then they can work on that. And the idea is that kids come with their ideas, and then they build, and the adults, they're there to support them and help them, and, uh, their parents come and, and help them without taking over and making it the parents' project, which we parents sometimes have a tendency to do.
And we let the kids build and do what they need to do.
Speaker: We all remember the science fair.
Speaker 2: That's right, man. Yeah. They, these should be kid projects, not adult projects, 'cause there's no grade on this. There's no competition. There's no whose is best, any of that kind of stuff. This is just all, you build something that works for you and is meaningful to you, and that's the takeaway.
And, uh, your dad can't build something that's meaningful for you. Only you can.
Speaker: This is for high school age youth. Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yep, kids who are 13 to 18.
Speaker:
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Well, what value do you hope that participants will come away with from that event?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, when we talk to teenagers today, a lot of them say that, uh, anything AI generated is slop, and they don't like it, but that's because that's what they're typically exposed to.
What they probably don't understand just because they don't know about it is that you can use AI to build a lot of things that is not s- slop, that is something that's really valuable and meaningful, and that's what we wanna have, give them an experience in, helping them see something that is valuable and worthwhile and can solve a problem for them that they can, uh, enjoy using and, and enjoy making as well.
Speaker: I, I often say, you know, when, when, when people use the word slop, they're referring to something real. I mean, the, the enslopification of the Internet is a real phenomenon that we all experience and, and, and it is, uh, making major corners of the Internet worse in real tangible ways. That's, that's not imaginary.
But- That...
Speaker 2: You're right, it's not ...
Speaker: but w- but we mean something kind of specific when we talk about slop, right? Slop is low effort, low quality, mass-produced content. Uh, and, a- and certainly AI has lowered the, the barrier to entry to produce that, and so, so enslopification is a, a, a real phenomenon. But that doesn't mean that everything that LLMs do or can do necessarily falls into that category.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And, and really it goes back to the intention of how you're using it. And if you're using it to create something that is, uh, only consumable, pointless, meaningless, then, then it's a real drag. But that's true for anything, right? The internet, uh, a book that you read, you can create an amazing book, or you can create a terrible book that is of no benefit to anyone.
And what we wanna do is help kids create something that does have value, that is meaningful for them, and that really is the whole point, is to help them see that they can use this to expand what they are capable of, rather than just use it as a consumption tool.
Speaker: Now, now on the production side, uh, uh, AI-assisted coding or, or AI-driven coding or vibe coding, um, these, these are, uh, uh, I, I'm seeing a lot more about this.
Um, is, is this, is this a, a passing fad or is this, uh, is, is this a feature of, of software development and tool development that's here to stay?
Speaker 2: Well, uh, I definitely think that it is the future of what it will look like. You know, in the year 1996, uh, we didn't know if this internet thing was gonna stick around, and sure enough, it has, and, uh, everybody uses the internet on a daily basis now.
Even people that you wouldn't think, like my 80-year-old mom, who uses the internet to find new quilting styles and strategies and all that kind of stuff. She uses it every single day, and I think that's gonna be the same with AI, and we don't know exactly what that looks like, but we have an opportunity to say what it's gonna look like in our own life.
And the reason why people use the internet only for consumption and only for, uh, streaming trash is because that's what they have been exposed to and haven't yet learned how to use the internet to add value to their life and to other people's lives. And so that's what we're trying to do, is help kids see how to use AI to add value to their life and to other people's lives, and that's really the goal of this thing, is to say you don't have to use it just for consuming.
You don't have to use it just like a search engine. You can use it for, for something else. And the best way to do that is really to actually use it for something else and to practice that and put it into practice. Because once you, once you just get a glimpse into what that future looks like, you start seeing how you can use this all over the place for all kinds of different things.
And that's the idea that we're trying to help kids see, is that when they can use it for something productive, they can see how else to use it, and then they avoid the, the trashy, wastelist, wasteless times to use it, and instead they go for the things that add value to their lives and others. And with, you know, the question of is this a fad, it most certainly is not.
We're all going to be using this in the future. Some of us will be using it in a way to really add value to our lives, and others will just be using it to... You know, a lot of people talk about there's this idea that you can have a show that is perfectly tailored to you in the moment, and you just say, "This is what I wanna watch," and it will make the show for you basically in real time, which is certainly possible.
But what we want is for our kids to be on the other side of that equation, where they are creating the content that people are going to consume, because creation is way better than just consumption.
Speaker: Agreed. It, the, the, the landscape is, is changing so rapidly. It, it's like a- anyone who is prognosticating any sort of specific vision of what the world is gonna look like in five years, much less 10, 15, or 20, uh, you know, can probably just be dismissed offhand.
Uh, you know, it, th- th- no, no one can, c- But, but it does seem like the, the one thing that we can be sure of is the, the people, the, some ver- some version of these tools are going to be around and are going to be significant, and the people who have a, a good map of, of how to, uh, how to navigate these tools will do better than those that don't have it.
It's, is, is, I mean, is, is that, is that safe to say, do you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And the people who, who... And, you know, I'm trying to avoid this whole, like, making money as the only point here, because it's not just about making money. But it is about providing value for yourself and for others. Those who are able to see how to use this to provide value for themselves and others,
they are the ones who are going to win in the long run, as it is with every technology that comes through.
And, you know, electricity When it was created did make some people, uh, more lazy 'cause they didn't have to, you know, uh, do certain things, but the same thing is true, uh, for other people, that it made them way more productive, way more valuable to themselves and others in their community, and that's what we're going for.
How do we take this tool, and whatever technology comes next too, because this is not the final technology, right? There's going to be something else that comes. How do we help train ourselves and our kids to know that the next best thing to do is to find whatever the technology is and use it to add value?
That's what's going to keep you employed, keep you happy, keep you engaged, keep you focused, keep you paying attention to what really matters. That's, that's the way that we take any of these tools and we use them in a positive way and, and help.
Speaker: This might be a good time to, to, to pivot. Tell me about, about the name of this project.
What, what is, what is Paideia, and how does that relate to, to what you're trying to do?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it relates to the Greek word paideia, which, which means basically to raise up a child i- to be a Greek citizen is, is what it originally meant. The way we're translating it today is to raise up the whole child and teach them everything that they need to know to be a functioning and productive member of society that will carry on our values and beliefs that we want, uh, to continue on long after we're dead.
And so the, the real focus here is that we don't want our kids to just be like every other kid that comes out. We want our kids to be valuable, productive members of society that are contributing, that are paving the way for others, that are helping, that are, that have a good head on their shoulders, they make good decisions, all that kind of stuff.
And currently, public school is really focused on teaching, uh, s- some very basic things, and some might argue they're not even focused on teaching those things anymore and they're foc- d- branching off into other areas. And really, education and learning is a personal endeavor, and it is best done when the, the family is involved in educating the whole child, and, and you can't outsource that to, uh, to, uh, an education system.
I mean, you can, but then you're not in control of it, and so you need, as a good parent, you need to stay in control of it and make sure that even if you are sending them to public school, which is totally fine, then, then you are... That's not the only cation, uh, only education they're getting, that we are educating the whole child and it takes a long time, takes intentionality, and it takes effort, and we need to start from the moment our kids are born- And that goes all the way up until, uh, we die.
We are constantly educating our kids and helping them continue to grow into being the kind of people that we believe they should be, that we are hopefully striving to become ourself. So that's, that's the loose way of, of describing what Paideia, what Project Paideia is.
Speaker: I think I hear you saying Paideia is education, but it's not, it's not downloading knowledge sets, or at least not just downloading knowledge sets into a young brain.
It's not even, uh, just about teaching, uh, skill sets that will be useful in the, in the workforce, which at this point, again, that's a lost cause. Yeah. Schools should not be trying to do that anyway because by the time the kids arrive in the workforce, the, it will be a different skill set that's in demand anyway.
Um- Yeah ... but it's also, it's moral education. It's cultural education. It's civic education. It's, uh, like you ... I- I like the way you put it, the, the, the whole child.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and a lot of schools have tried to take that whole child approach and, and talked about that, but there are some things that are really just not appropriate for the school to teach.
And, uh, for example, there, the school should not be teaching how to be religious in the religion that you are, that you are a member of, that you participate in. The school should not be doing that. They can teach about religions, but they should not be instructing your children in the way that they should live their own religion.
That is the family and the church's responsibility, and we also believe that we can reach out to lots of different groups to help in the raising, in the teaching of our children, and that that is not only an okay thing, but that is preferred, that it's, it's much better for you to have a large network of different experiences and people that can help teach your children how to become well-functioning adults, and that's really what we wanna do.
And so, like I said before, we- we've done a lot of different things. Some people have made software, some people have made homeschool curriculum, some people have made different things, and this is just one of the many ways that we want to help our kids learn how to survive in the future.
Speaker: And, and, and, and, and that's maybe o- one thing I, I want to investigate just in a little bit more depth.
What does that vision of education have to do with artificial intelligence? Where does, where, where does Paideia intersect with, uh, with, with these tools? Well, why, why the build-a-thon? Uh, how, how is that in service of Paideia?
Speaker 2: Well, the, the real thing is is that, uh, uh, a core tenant of mine is that once you learn how to learn, you can learn anything, and you no longer need a specific teacher, and AI just accelerates that because it allows you to go from concept and idea to actually implemented thing, whatever it is, in a very short amount of time.
And, and the real value there is that you can have a lot of different ideas and experiences and be able to work through those much faster than, with AI, than you
could otherwise. And so it also means that when new technologies and opportunities exist, that we investigate and explore them and how they can benefit us and decide whether or not that is for us.
So for example, let's say that, uh, your family has been piano tuners for your whole life, and you're going to continue to be piano tuners, and that's your family's future, that's what your kids... You're raising them to do that. That's what they wanna do, and that's all well and good. But if there's a way that technology can improve that, for example, let's say you have a tone deaf kid, like I am.
Like, I can't hear different notes unless I try really, really hard, and it's very difficult for me to identify the difference. So I don't, I don't notice when a piano is out of tune unless it's really bad, and then I'm like, "That's out of tune," but I, I have no idea what would make it in tune, and I can't necessarily say, "This is in tune."
However, I can use a, uh, a technology to be able to hear the tone of the piano and say, "Yes, that is a, uh, a C sharp or a C flat or, or a regular C." I can use the technology to help me with that. So we, when new technologies come out, we want to expose our kids to them in an appropriate way, help them see how they can use them in a beneficial and finan- or beneficial and useful manner, and then be able to ex- experience what that looks like.
AI right now is allowing unprecedented amounts of creativity and creation that we just have never had access to before. If a kid has an idea for a video game or a way to make his TV, um, act in a certain way, that is now possible because of AI, whereas in the past you would need a lot of other skills to be able to do that.
And now it's as simple as just saying, "This is what I want to happen," and literally talking that into the computer, and then it actually happens. That's a really valuable thing for kids to be able to see as a possibility. And right now, most schools are saying if you use AI, then you're cheating, and I just think that that's totally wrong.
That's not necessarily the case. If you are using... What I always say is, if you are using AI to circumvent or shortcut the learning, then that is cheating in that particular sense. But if you are using AI to accelerate or expand, then that is certainly not cheating, because it is helping you do the thing that you're actually trying to do.
And now the information was, is so plentiful and it's just a quick question away from any search engine or AI agent. We really need to understand what's next for us. If, if education and learning is not just about passing on information from someone who knows to someone who doesn't- What really is the point of education?
And this is our attempt to say the point of education is learning to create something that gives value to other people and solves a problem that they have. And, and that's why we're, we're setting kids up to have this experience and see what that feels like to solve a problem for someone.
Speaker: And that, and that's a, a skill set and a set of mental habits that can be transposed into any landscape, any ecosystem, regardless of how it changes between, between now and then.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: I love it. So first Project Paideia build-a-thon event, uh, sponsored by OpenAI, Utah Valley University, November 21st.
Speaker 2: 21st. Yep, two four-hour sessions, 8:00 AM to noon and 1:00 PM to 5:00 PM and register for one of those. Uh, we invite parents to come with their kids and see what's going on and be excited about it, but don't ever put your hands on the keyboard, parents.
Like, that's key. Let your kids do it and let them fail, let them struggle, let them figure out how to fix it. There's a ton of learning that's available in this opportunity, and it's not just about creating something with AI. It's about going through that whole process of ideating, trying something, seeing it fail, trying again, doing something different, and going through that whole process is really valuable, and we, we can get it down to something meaningful in just four hours of, of your Saturday in, in November.
Speaker: Uh, where can parents go to, uh, sign up, sign their kids up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, projectpaideia.com. That's P-A-I-D-E-I-A.com, projectpaideia.com. Go check it out, and we'd love to have you there with us on November 21st.
Speaker: Well, thank you, Jethro. This has been, uh, a wonderful and enlightening... And yeah, I hope we, we get a great turnout at this event.
Speaker 2: Excellent. Thank you very much.