Transcription complète de Overcoming Self-Doubt and Embracing Feedback for Business Success with Chanti Zak

00:06:11.067 And when you're so young too, to be choosing what you want to do for the rest of your life and investing all that time and money, like at this stage in the game, I realize I'm so grateful that I didn't go that route, but I had to break that rule for myself and overcome that idea that that was the only way. 00:06:13.634 --> 00:06:24.163 And yeah, I find that picking, you know, asking 18, 17, 18, 19 year olds to pick their forever career is a lot like saying marry the person you dated in middle school. 00:06:25.266 --> 00:06:25.706 Right. 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:39.281 And you look back and you're like you know nothing against that person, but like we are not, we were not aligned. 00:06:39.281 --> 00:06:43.708 So I, you know I share many of those experiences myself, specifically in relation to the shame around education. 00:06:43.708 --> 00:06:44.810 And I didn't. 00:06:44.810 --> 00:06:58.627 I went to university only a couple of years, but in my late twenties and you know my background I always say my background is in psychology because I can't say, you know, I'm licensed or any of those things. 00:06:58.627 --> 00:07:06.060 And what came with that and still does, is this like, like, is it respected? 00:07:06.060 --> 00:07:07.783 Is it like I'm? 00:07:07.783 --> 00:07:12.531 I've always tried to attempt to communicate that it feels. 00:07:12.531 --> 00:07:16.459 I feel like I know some, some great things and how to help people. 00:07:16.459 --> 00:07:24.386 And the results would say that you know, I've been able to do that over the years, mostly with my life and then with those who I've been able to support. 00:07:24.386 --> 00:07:28.766 But that shame around what does it mean to be intelligent? 00:07:28.766 --> 00:07:30.029 What does it mean to be smart? 00:07:30.029 --> 00:07:38.153 You know what quantifies those things in the first place has been something I am still, to this day, unpacking. 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:42.204 Yeah yeah, Same here Sometimes. 00:07:42.204 --> 00:08:12.752 My husband is a builder and he does a lot of construction projects and right now we just got a cow recently and she had a baby, and so now there's this whole project of building not building the barn from scratch, but fixing a lot of the barn not building the barn from scratch, but fixing a lot of the barn and so my husband will do these like doodles of the, the vision he has for the space, and my brain, like I can't. 00:08:12.752 --> 00:08:14.142 I can't comprehend it. 00:08:14.142 --> 00:08:16.350 I'm like what are you explaining to me right now? 00:08:16.350 --> 00:08:18.869 Like my brain just doesn't work that way. 00:08:18.869 --> 00:08:26.853 I can't put like two pieces of wood together without getting covered in splinters and giving up. 00:08:26.853 --> 00:08:41.299 And yeah, for him it's second nature and it's just like this recognition that we all have unique gifts and just because we're not excelling in one area doesn't mean we're innately stupid. 00:08:41.299 --> 00:08:43.865 It's just that's how. 00:08:43.865 --> 00:08:54.914 That's how is, Although, when I meet those people who are like, seem to be good at everything, just but you just throw mashed potatoes at them. 00:08:58.221 --> 00:09:04.186 Yeah, I, yeah, I love this and I'm curious with this, this idea of the barn. 00:09:04.186 --> 00:09:20.317 So one question that I have written down here, and quite literally it's the only question, is I knowing what you do, as far as like not just discovering your own voice, to be able to write the copy in a way that feels, you know, natural and authentic to you? 00:09:20.317 --> 00:09:32.447 You, but I know that you support many different people across the board and I assume that it is a spectrum of personalities and backgrounds and expertise. 00:09:32.447 --> 00:09:51.145 So how do you or, better yet, where do you start in relation to gaining clarity, either your clarity on someone or helping them become clear on themselves, so that you can create something that aligns? 00:09:52.808 --> 00:10:32.264 Yeah, I ask so many questions, and so sometimes I do that at scale, right, with something like a quiz or assessment, and sometimes I do that in conversation, say with a client or a student, and it's really this process of inquiry that you, I'm sure, are intimately familiar with as a coach, right, it is such a learning curve and a practice to ask questions without putting your own projections onto the answers. 00:10:32.264 --> 00:11:18.994 So that's what I'm, you know, always trying to do in, whether it's with something like a quiz or in just conversation with the person that I'm working with, and then seeing where that goes and how that unfolds is where the magic happens, right, it's like I always use the analogy that every question is like a door and you open the door and you don't know what you're going to find, so you have to be open to then taking that next step, going through the doorway and based on what you see there, that's where it leads us to the next question, and we just kind of go deeper and deeper in that way. 00:11:20.640 --> 00:12:16.491 And you know it's funny with quizzes, because you can only ask so many questions and you know it's funny with quizzes because, you can only ask so many questions, you can only understand so much from someone in how they answer, and so you know you're only giving them this tiny little fraction of the whole spectrum of who they are, what they might need to hear or see, and in with clients and students it's the same, but you can often like go even deeper, so yeah, and how do you know when, like, you've hit that sweet spot, right Cause I know, like digging could, we could dig forever, forever, right, but how do you know when you hit that sweet spot, either when you're creating something of your own or when you're working with someone else, and you know, like we got it, like this is, this is what we need to achieve x. 00:12:19.022 -->

00:12:20.143 I think it's a feeling. 00:12:20.143 --> 00:12:21.364 It's. 00:12:21.364 --> 00:12:44.870 It's when someone communicates, resonance, and you hear it in their words, but more than that, you hear it in their energy and you know a back and forth dynamic conversation, um, with the words and with communicating on the internet and at scale. 00:12:44.870 --> 00:12:58.188 You don't always have that luxury Right, and so then you're more reliant on the actual word expression of like whoa, this was so me, you get me. 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:32.991 I feel like X, y, z and having that feedback and that input, that's how I know that I got it and I and I hit on something there, like when people actually want to share your work and when they actually feel compelled to respond, that's where that I know I've hit a sweet spot and there's something there and say with, like a client or a student, it's really an energetic shift. 00:13:32.991 --> 00:13:38.493 That sounds kind of woo, but it's like a barrier comes down. 00:13:38.493 --> 00:14:06.014 It's like you can feel when someone trusts you a little bit more than they did 10 minutes ago or two weeks ago, and as those barriers come down, it's like okay, they feel seen and I know that I'm doing a good job in asking the right questions to get to that place where they can feel that way and feel like their, their voice or their intention has been captured and communicated. 00:14:08.461 --> 00:14:10.546 I love this and, like I said, my background. 00:14:10.546 --> 00:14:12.530 I specifically work with trauma. 00:14:12.530 --> 00:14:16.610 That's where I began and much because of my own story. 00:14:16.610 --> 00:14:38.804 But understanding, like you know, getting allowing someone to creating a container for someone to feel safe enough right To begin opening some of those doors, I find is, I mean oftentimes, sometimes the greatest gift I think we can offer someone. 00:14:40.168 --> 00:15:14.448 And I bring this up because I'm also curious, you know, as someone who has worked with you know, I imagine, thousands of people you know technically at this point, how do you and maybe it's the filter on the front end, but when working with someone and working this intimately with them, right, you're getting in and understanding their values, their perspectives, their beliefs and all of these like really important, kind of the key to what you're, what you do, I would assume. 00:15:14.448 --> 00:15:20.157 But how do you work with someone that you may not actually align with? 00:15:20.157 --> 00:15:31.924 Right, not saying that what they believe is wrong or bad or any of those types of things, cause I imagine if it was, if that line was ever met, it's like all right, enjoy, you know. 00:15:31.924 --> 00:15:40.293 But for those that you just genuinely you don't align with, like, how have you navigated that throughout your career? 00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:43.961 Oh man, that's such a good question. 00:15:43.961 --> 00:15:51.648 I have been sitting with this a bit lately because I have this client right now who I absolutely adore. 00:15:51.648 --> 00:16:05.678 She is like so brilliant and kind and has this huge vision and is also very religious and I won't like call out any specific religions. 00:16:05.678 --> 00:16:07.360 I'm not super religious. 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:25.528 I am like agnostic, spiritual, open to many different things, and I see truth in all of these different religions and there's just like I'm just not a like there's no dogma involved and um, not that there is with her either. 00:16:25.628 --> 00:16:32.528 It's just that she's like all in on this one religion and it's interwoven in all of her copy. 00:16:32.528 --> 00:16:38.264 It's interwoven in all of her values and I love it. 00:16:38.264 --> 00:16:48.461 I'm like I can appreciate that about you and how that leads you through life without having the same belief structure. 00:16:48.461 --> 00:17:00.182 And, yeah, there's something liberating there, like we don't have to all believe the same things and you know she's. 00:17:00.182 --> 00:17:15.766 She's not like the, because if it were at this other end of the religious spectrum where you're like dogmatic about it and everyone who doesn't believe this is evil and needs to be saved, like that's not my vibe I probably wouldn't work with that person. 00:17:15.766 --> 00:17:17.185 But she's not like that at all. 00:17:17.840 --> 00:17:33.153 It's like we recognize free will in each other and that we each come to our set of beliefs through our own paths and there's this certain respect there and we just coexist. 00:17:34.762 --> 00:17:51.615 I love that, the recognizing free will in each other part, right, because I think I mean in any intimate relationship, whether it's a business, you know, which is intimate, it's financial, it triggers the same parts of us, as you know physical intimacy does with partners. 00:17:53.220 --> 00:18:01.470 So it's, you know, to be in a relationship like that and both be able to recognize and respect the free will. 00:18:01.509 --> 00:18:13.231 And the other is, I mean, if we could all land just there, right, like how much better would life be for all of us. 00:18:14.334 --> 00:18:50.314 Um, and, and I am, I'm in alignment with you, like I stand on that same same side of the conversation, and one thing that I've said and, by the way, my sister is is the opposite, you know, not total, but she's, she's definitely much more um, devout and in her religious beliefs and I was raised under, uh, you know those conversations as well and, um, the the one thing and I don't know if you, I'm saying this cause I'm curious if you would agree, I don't know if you, I'm saying this because I'm curious if you would agree the one thing on that topic is and I think this could also translate to business strategy. 00:18:53.941 --> 00:18:57.426 I know those are very different things, right, but I think the same principle could apply

where. 00:18:57.426 --> 00:19:09.586 You know, I shared with my sister when I started to have the courage to voice where I stood on this conversation, to voice where I stood on this conversation and phrase that it would offend or upset or, you know, create some sort of you know, disconnect between her and I. 00:19:09.586 --> 00:19:17.909 But what I landed on was that I'm, I'm okay if I'm wrong. 00:19:19.181 --> 00:19:20.005 Right yeah. 00:19:21.319 --> 00:20:02.160 Like, if I get up there and it, it's the way that she and others you know, extremely believe and I'm like like, okay, I guess you know, I hope that I live my life in such a way that, you know, still, I might, you know, get a high five in the way in, but if not, I'm also okay with the way that I have lived, I've started to live my life over the last few years and if that, wherever that takes me, is where we're going to ride, so, um, but I, I, I compare that to business because you know, I find that so many, you know, we struggle so much with identifying the path that's most aligned with us. 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:19.165 Right, we're pursuing the, the things that others have, you know, either proven to be successful in their own way, or that we are convinced is the only way, or, whatever the relationship is, I think you know getting to that place where you're comfortable. 00:20:22.236 --> 00:20:45.383 It's not about not being right, but you're comfortable if you know other people are doing it better, differently, right, yeah, or being comfortable knowing that you might be wrong or that you might change your mind and things will evolve, and that is not easy to do. 00:20:45.383 --> 00:20:56.801 But neither is certainty Right Like I, and so there's this part of me that admires the like extremely devout. 00:20:56.801 --> 00:21:04.222 I'm certain that this is the way and you know, this religion is the right one, or this strategy is the right one. 00:21:04.222 --> 00:21:08.240 Like there's a part of me that is sort of almost jealous of that in other people. 00:21:08.361 --> 00:21:10.263 I'm like how do you how? 00:21:10.284 --> 00:21:13.536 do you have that Cause I don't have that in anything Like. 00:21:13.536 --> 00:21:25.881 There's always gray in all aspects of almost everything in life and business and personal growth strategy included. 00:21:25.881 --> 00:21:30.817 It's like, okay, I'm going to do this thing and make this move and I'm committed to it. 00:21:30.817 --> 00:21:36.949 Am I certain that it is going to result in success or what I want? 00:21:36.949 --> 00:21:58.105 No, and I don't know how anyone could be, do you? 00:21:58.105 --> 00:22:06.490 Is there a difference in your opinion between conviction and commitment, whereas commitment could be? 00:22:06.490 --> 00:22:12.974 I don't know that this is going to work, but I'm committed to following through and giving it a shot. 00:22:15.176 --> 00:22:15.917 I love this. 00:22:15.917 --> 00:22:17.659 Do you? 00:22:17.659 --> 00:22:24.205 Do you feel like in business and relationships and motherhood and all of the? 00:22:24.205 --> 00:22:27.548 You know these things like you have been. 00:22:27.548 --> 00:22:30.692 You've lived a committed life. 00:22:33.516 --> 00:22:37.265 Yeah and conviction in certain areas. 00:22:38.027 --> 00:22:38.347 Of course. 00:22:39.095 --> 00:22:59.868 But yeah, like there's a lot of commitment and you know, even from like homesteading and growing food and raising a family, like I'm committed to that, even though I know there's like alternative routes that might be easier. 00:22:59.868 --> 00:23:15.031 And in business, there's this commitment to watching and holding space for my own evolution and knowing that things will change. 00:23:15.031 --> 00:23:23.288 And I'm going to, you know, continue to be committed on some level, even if things look different from year to year. 00:23:23.635 --> 00:23:24.218 Love this. 00:23:24.218 --> 00:23:30.895 That was an unlock for me, year to year. 00:23:30.895 --> 00:23:32.038 Love this, that was an unlock for me. 00:23:32.078 --> 00:23:45.144 Hearing you say committed Cause I the the feeling that came through when you said that was the conviction feels like so, like rigid, I think, and again necessary. 00:23:45.183 --> 00:23:52.991 And I'm not saying conviction is not what we desire to, to achieve or arrive at in certain areas of our life. 00:23:52.991 --> 00:23:59.421 Absolutely there's conviction, but in in things like business and just personal development. 00:23:59.421 --> 00:24:11.652 And you know, looking back on the evolutions I find so many people get, they get stuck in the identities that they adopted, you know, early on in life. 00:24:11.652 --> 00:24:28.846 And you know, when the world starts to challenge them and I am one of them in this story or this analogy but when, when the world starts to challenge those, those identities, you know we go one of two ways. 00:24:28.846 --> 00:24:47.864 You know we either triple down on conviction right, you will not change me, you will not make me, you know, feel wrong, or whatever the relationship is, or you commit, and you commit to figuring it out, you commit to exploring, you commit to courage. 00:24:47.864 --> 00:25:03.056 Um, and I think, as I'm even going through this in my own mind right now, finding where those intersect again later in life is, I think the journey that I would say we're all on. 00:25:04.198 --> 00:25:21.529 Yeah, yeah, cause what takes something from commitment to conviction like say more I think evidence and what makes something worthy of committing to same same answer is evidence. 00:25:21.529 --> 00:25:42.021 But it's like evidence that you see through other people's experience and those who might be more, might have more expertise in a certain area than you, legitimately Right, and that's not like felt, lived experience type evidence. 00:25:42.021 --> 00:25:48.994 So you can't have conviction until it is felt, lived,

experienced. 00:25:48.994 --> 00:26:31.835 I have evidence that this is my path because I've tried it and it worked for me and I feel that in my body and my mind and all aspects, whereas before that happens you're committing because, well, you've seen something work for other people and this person that you trust is telling you this is the way forward and even though it feels foreign and scary and you don't have the internal evidence, you have the external enough that you can move forward with some level of confidence that at least it's worth a shot move forward with some level of confidence that at least it's worth a shot. 00:26:35.875 --> 00:26:36.236 It's worth a shot. 00:26:36.236 --> 00:26:36.536 I love that. 00:26:36.536 --> 00:26:38.118 So I'm going to tie this into to business Cause I find. 00:26:38.118 --> 00:26:39.622 So I have a belief that it's a couple of things. 00:26:39.622 --> 00:26:59.157 First, I believe that business, when you start your own, is the greatest vehicle for personal development, and the reason being the reason why I say you know business over you know a relationship or potentially even children. 00:26:59.157 --> 00:27:17.429 I'm not a father yet, so I'm not going to speak as if, but in the conversations with those who do have children, um, and having been a child myself once, and still to this day sometimes the reason why I say business is because the business can only go as far as its leader. 00:27:18.516 --> 00:27:33.019 Whatever your blocks will be, your business's blocks right, especially at any stage, but I think they definitely show up early on any stage, but I think they definitely show up early on. 00:27:33.019 --> 00:27:39.819 And the other thing is, I believe that no one chooses a business, no one commits to a business, unless it's something that's personal to them, I like. 00:27:39.819 --> 00:27:58.086 I think you see, time and time again, people will choose to start something in pursuit of just the monetary reward and know some maybe hit the jackpot, so to speak, or whatever it is, uh, but most never stick with it because it's it the. 00:27:58.086 --> 00:28:26.501 The motivation isn't deep enough, it's not personal enough, whereas at least the people that I love to work with and I would imagine you're the same it's those who have really been through something, whatever that thing is for them, and because they've been through it, it's become a mission of theirs to help others either avoid or work through that particular thing themselves, and then you figure out how to, like, build the plane around it, right? 00:28:26.501 --> 00:28:36.020 So that's why I believe that you know this, this starting your own business, is the greatest vehicle to personal development, right? 00:28:36.020 --> 00:28:41.740 Because if you are committed to seeing that, it becomes something that can genuinely provide you got to go through some shit. 00:28:41.740 --> 00:28:50.247 It's going to make you face you the whole time Insert

panic attack this morning, but that's another conversation. 00:28:51.655 --> 00:28:58.915 Um so uh, you know, what I'm curious to know is you know, tying this into your own business experience? 00:28:58.915 --> 00:29:03.325 Your quizzes are your jam, right? 00:29:03.325 --> 00:29:04.007 There's no secret. 00:29:04.007 --> 00:29:06.395 If anyone just Googles your name, they'll learn that really quickly. 00:29:06.395 --> 00:29:13.943 And you're absolutely phenomenal, in my opinion, at you know how you like. 00:29:13.943 --> 00:29:22.372 You're an artist with language, truly, and I've I discovered you, I don't know how many years ago now, but it's been probably longer than I think. 00:29:28.035 --> 00:29:32.615 Um, cause, I discovered you on Amy Porterfield's podcast and that was the first time I'd even heard of quizzes in the world of business and I was like what is this thing Like, tell me more. 00:29:32.615 --> 00:29:33.715 Uh. 00:29:33.715 --> 00:29:41.660 So I went down the rabbit hole after listening to that interview and immediately I had this like hell, yes, right. 00:29:41.660 --> 00:29:51.458 But then I went down the the you know, try to figure it out and it was like, oh no, like this is so much more difficult than I could have ever imagined. 00:29:51.458 --> 00:30:01.461 So all of this to ask how, like you know, when you started your own business, whatever, like what did it look? 00:30:01.461 --> 00:30:01.642 Like? 00:30:01.642 --> 00:30:07.006 How did you come to finding that quizzes were not only successful, but they were your jam? 00:30:07.006 --> 00:30:11.702 Like what was that evolution between like okay, I'm going to, I got to start something on my own too? 00:30:11.702 --> 00:30:14.518 Oh shit, quizzes are kind of cool too. 00:30:14.518 --> 00:30:17.464 Oh wait, I'm going to like do something with this. 00:30:18.468 --> 00:30:32.327 Yeah, it's so interesting how like a conversation will come into your life right when you're sort of grappling with the things that come up in that conversation, cause I've been thinking about a lot of this lately too. 00:30:32.327 --> 00:30:40.117 It's like, how do you speaking of conviction, how do you write with conviction, how do you communicate with conviction? 00:30:40.117 --> 00:31:21.326 Because actually conviction speaks volumes, you know, on every level of communication, from just like the words that someone's reading in your email to your videos, to everything that you're putting out there, your offers, all of it and if you don't have that conviction that what you're doing is, you know, connecting on some level to an emotional experience, within that like you can get into the, the feels that that communicate conviction. 00:31:21.326 --> 00:31:30.887 Um, and without like going on, a total tangent here or do there's this book called power versus force. 00:31:30.968 --> 00:31:33.057 Have you ever have you read that? 00:31:33.057 --> 00:31:38.067 Okay, it's quite old, but it's really cool. 00:31:38.067 --> 00:31:53.898 It's based on a lot of research into basically like I'm forgetting the actual word for it, the scientific word for it, but it's like have you heard of muscle testing? 00:31:56.788 --> 00:32:12.411 Yes, I'm not familiar, I'm not an expert on it, so please, so if you like, held out your arm and someone who's a neutral, let's say third party, they ask you a question, yes or no? 00:32:12.411 --> 00:32:17.344 If it's a no, your arm will go down, if it's a yes, your arm will stay up. 00:32:17.344 --> 00:32:27.829 It's like really out there and strange, but actually works on levels that we can't even fathom. 00:32:27.829 --> 00:32:50.424 So power versus force he goes into the resonance of each emotion and even neutrality is above an emotion like anger or fear, right, and then above neutrality is courage and then above that is love. 00:32:51.426 --> 00:33:07.625 And I think when you can like conviction to me is in that realm of of courage and love, and when that's coming through in your message, you create resonance with the right people. 00:33:07.625 --> 00:33:33.734 But that can't come through if you don't have that emotional connection to whatever the subject matter is right, and so this practice of what do I actually care about and how that helps you in your business is absolutely wild. 00:33:33.734 --> 00:34:08.217 So I'm with you in this belief that business is the ultimate personal growth tool Because, yeah, it is this very unique path where you have to take uncomfortable action and you have to explore the unknown and you have to come up against your own growth edges in the process and I am totally lost the plot of what the actual initial question was because I got so excited. 00:34:09.045 --> 00:34:14.447 But no, I think that is the plot question was because I got so excited. 00:34:14.507 --> 00:34:15.210 But no, I think that is the plot. 00:34:15.210 --> 00:34:17.960 So, yeah, the origin, like like, what is the emotional connection with a quiz like where does that come from? 00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:19.487 And uh. 00:34:19.487 --> 00:34:38.079 So yeah, I've been thinking about this and trying to get to the heart of why some people are really naturally successful and others it feels like this is such a struggle fest and they're asking this question like why isn't this working? 00:34:38.079 --> 00:35:03.932 I'm putting all this effort in, I'm writing the copy, I'm producing the podcast and it's not working, versus someone over here where it's like they have like terrible design and things that on the surface don't look that great and yet they're crushing it, and so I think like resonance and conviction sort of play into that are you a coach who has been struggling to do everything yourself? 00:35:04.574 --> 00:35:25.490 I mean all of the content, the emails, the marketing, not to mention, every time you open your phone, there's a new social media strategy that someone is pitching that just makes you feel like you'll

never be able to keep up, when all you really care about is helping people in a meaningful way while building the kind of coaching business your family can depend on. 00:35:25.490 --> 00:35:35.577 I'm Matthew Pates, the founder of Momentum, a growth agency that specializes in helping coaches, just like you, break through your first 100K. 00:35:35.577 --> 00:35:53.199 If you're a coach who is tired of trying to figure it all out themselves and you just want to build a business that works, then I'm going to encourage you to click the link in our show notes to take your 100K coaching assessment to find out if you're ready to unlock your six-figure potential today. 00:35:54.927 --> 00:35:58.925 And then I looked at my own journey and it's so funny. 00:35:58.925 --> 00:36:22.264 When I was like 10 years old, I was asking my mom to buy me basically self-help books and exploring all these journal prompts books and exploring all these journal prompts and I was obsessed with quizzes and assessments from a very young age because there was some innate curiosity into like, what can this show me? 00:36:22.264 --> 00:36:25.530 What can this tell me that I don't already know? 00:36:25.530 --> 00:36:57.186 So that you know is sort of a part of me, so that you know is sort of a part of me. 00:36:57.186 --> 00:36:58.731 And as I started building my business, it didn't start with that. 00:36:58.731 --> 00:36:59.172 I created a food blog. 00:36:59.192 --> 00:37:03.202 That was my first foray into the world of online business and marketing and I had incredibly low self-worth at the time when I started my business, like I was not in a good relationship. 00:37:03.202 --> 00:37:09.251 I well, when I started, I was pregnant with my first child and then, when things ramped up, he was like a baby. 00:37:09.251 --> 00:37:27.405 So there was a lot of just newness unfolding and I think, on an identity level, that probably worked to my advantage, because I'm already moving into this new identity of mother and provider. 00:37:27.405 --> 00:37:36.648 I may as well step into it fully and make this work, but when I first started writing for money. 00:37:36.648 --> 00:37:56.047 It was recipes and really random articles on health and wellness topics, because my food blog was like kind of centered around that and I got paid very, very little. 00:37:56.047 --> 00:38:05.911 It was like $50 for a blog post that I would spend 10 hours writing and it would have like 120 citations. 00:38:05.911 --> 00:38:18.858 Like I was really all in on doing an incredibly good job and yet I had no concept that I could charge a premium for that. 00:38:18.858 --> 00:38:21.891 And it was. 00:38:22.204 --> 00:38:32.487 It was really years working with my own limitations and ideas around money and what's possible. 00:38:32.487 --> 00:38:59.034 And you know, I say that evidence inspires commitment, because it was really the evidence that I saw from others who, similar to me, sort of built something from scratch and used their natural gifts and talents to create freedom in their lives that made me think maybe it's possible. 00:38:59.034 --> 00:39:02.206 Like, if they can do it, why not me? 00:39:02.206 --> 00:39:16.001 I'll give it a shot, even though I have this mountain of self-doubt and, uh, negative identity patterns over here that could stop me. 00:39:16.001 --> 00:39:29.775 But I know that other people have those too and they do it anyway, so I'll keep going and and it was like years of that and uh, and the quiz thing was just totally random. 00:39:29.775 --> 00:39:32.679 Like I was well random, right. 00:39:32.864 --> 00:39:53.567 But I was working with this company and in charge of lead generation, all the way to conversion, all the way to creating their actual programs, and I just thought, oh, maybe a quiz would be fun, like we've never tried that, let's try that. 00:39:53.567 --> 00:39:57.474 And I did that and and it just crushed. 00:39:57.474 --> 00:40:19.813 And again, the evidence that this works this has worked better than anything else I've ever tried inspired me to commit to that and give it a shot with other types of clients in other niches and other realms and to just continue exploring that theme. 00:40:19.813 --> 00:40:31.376 And over time, you know, it just deepened and deepened in the sense of what's possible with this and how much better can it get. 00:40:31.376 --> 00:40:43.356 And okay, we see that this like buzzfeed quiz over here has gone hella viral, like why is that, what's happening? 00:40:43.356 --> 00:41:00.077 And so that, like that curiosity sort of continued to weave its way through this one topic that, yeah, I mean I continue to explore and learn new things about, because I think that's just part of who I am. 00:41:00.137 --> 00:41:33.740 I'm just this like really curious person and curious about humans and the human mind, and that's what we're probing at when we create a quiz or an assessment I love this and it brings me back to, like I said you, the conversation room with amy was the one that introduced me to the idea of quizzes and I immediately ran, found a software, started playing with it, and purpose is a big topic that I I love. 00:41:33.740 --> 00:41:39.128 You know I speak on on purpose quite a bit and you know cause. 00:41:39.128 --> 00:41:53.039 My belief with purpose is that, one, it's literally an emotional state, not a destination that we find, and two, I believe it stems, I believe purpose is discovered, in our pain, not our passion. 00:41:53.039 --> 00:42:05.893 And so I bring this up because the first quiz that I created, if I remember correctly, it was, you know, discover your path to purpose, and you know it was me creating it. 00:42:05.893 --> 00:42:12.759 So, naturally, it was generic as hell and like, had all of these like very topical things, but I was also exploring ads for the first time and I ran. 00:42:12.759 --> 00:42:26.920 It actually was generic as hell and like, had all of

these like very topical things, uh, but I I was also exploring ads for the first time and I ran it and the scariest thing, literally unexpected thing, happened and it terrified me and that's cause it worked, wow, and I bailed. 00:42:27.864 --> 00:42:42.097 It got over 6,000 people to take it and I bailed, I shut it down because I didn't know what to do with them, I didn't know what to do with the attention, and but what it did was now I have conviction, because I'm like, oh, this shit works. 00:42:42.097 --> 00:42:44.298 But now what do I do? 00:42:44.298 --> 00:42:48.782 Like I've invited them Everybody it's like you invite everyone over but like you forgot to go grocery shopping. 00:42:48.782 --> 00:43:00.072 You have no food and they're just sitting there starving, saying, like, what do we do now? 00:43:00.072 --> 00:43:05.188 Yeah, and so you know, and I bailed for years on this topic and, to be quite honest, I'm just now coming back to it but it's always been that like that love interest that has never left my mind. 00:43:06.150 --> 00:43:10.626 And you know, in our own agency, podcasting and quizzes are the two like pillars. 00:43:10.626 --> 00:43:22.420 Um, because it's the two things I believe allow you to create authentic conversations and relationships while also creating something that lives online so that you don't have to. 00:43:22.420 --> 00:43:26.856 Which is that was really the first like, ok, quizzes are the jam. 00:43:26.856 --> 00:43:40.168 Like I don't know about this posting reels and going viral thing, but like, yeah, give me 10 questions and an answer and I, you got my attention. 00:43:40.168 --> 00:43:42.695 Um, but to be honest, I just kind of lost where I was going with that. 00:43:42.695 --> 00:43:48.411 I just oh, I think the scariest thing that can happen to someone is when they find a strategy that actually works. 00:43:49.072 --> 00:43:49.313 Right. 00:43:50.255 --> 00:43:51.878 Because what that brings you in contact with. 00:43:51.878 --> 00:43:56.510 Yeah, so the. 00:43:56.510 --> 00:44:16.958 I guess one question I have you said something earlier that really stuck out to me was you know how some people crush it, although their stuff doesn't, you know, have the aesthetic or it's not as smooth or whatever that might be, while other people have all the things and yet they still just struggle to to connect or find traction. 00:44:16.958 --> 00:44:34.300 Yeah, in your experience, do you find that those that focus so much on the perfection of something, the, the, the appearance of it, it doesn't work, because it's almost like they've perfected the soul out of it? 00:44:35.746 --> 00:44:41.414 Yeah, totally, and perfection takes so long. 00:44:41.414 --> 00:44:47.889 It just takes so freaking long and I'm like absolute perfectionist to a fault. 00:44:47.889 --> 00:44:55.985 So I'm always actively trying to grapple with this feeling that it's not good enough. 00:44:55.985 --> 00:45:03.139 It has to meet this like invisible standard over here and it's constant. 00:45:03.139 --> 00:45:09.594 It never, freaking, goes away, even though I know it's not required and sometimes it's a detriment. 00:45:09.594 --> 00:45:21.146 It's not required and sometimes it's a detriment, but it's always there and like it's just it's slow to be a perfectionist. 00:45:21.146 --> 00:45:23.849 Sometimes you're a perfectionist and you create something freaking awesome and people do love it. 00:45:23.849 --> 00:45:24.811 It's not always the case. 00:45:24.811 --> 00:45:29.838 I think that like it kills the soul of it, but it certainly can kill the momentum. 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:37.048 And in this like crazy fast paced world that we're living in? 00:45:37.048 --> 00:45:38.873 It's? 00:45:38.873 --> 00:45:44.766 I don't have an answer to this conundrum because I struggle with it myself. 00:45:44.766 --> 00:46:00.525 It's like do we focus on the quality and getting something to as close to perfection as we can, knowing that it will take way longer, or do we just go and experiment and let it be messy? 00:46:00.525 --> 00:46:28.813 And I think it's kind of both things like I've really poured my heart and soul into and spent way too long perfecting, but that I'm now like really proud of and I can confidently share it versus there's things that's just like no, we just got to get this out, we just got to see if it even connects, we got to see if there's something there and we've got to build some evidence before aiming for perfection. 00:46:28.813 --> 00:46:32.059 I think we need the evidence that, like that's the goal. 00:46:32.844 --> 00:46:41.449 But yeah, how have you managed, yeah, how have you managed the experience of, you know, battling the shame which you know. 00:46:41.449 --> 00:46:48.347 The way that I like to describe shame is it's the not enough emotion, right, like I'm not blank enough. 00:46:48.347 --> 00:46:49.086 Fill in the blank. 00:46:49.086 --> 00:46:51.389 We can go crazy with it, right? 00:46:51.389 --> 00:47:05.916 And the one guarantee to evoke whatever your shame is is putting yourself out there in any meaningful way, whether it's with one person or millions in some cases. 00:47:06.876 --> 00:47:13.541 So, being someone that is obviously intimately aware with what that experience is like. 00:47:13.541 --> 00:47:17.943 How have you navigated those, especially early in your career? 00:47:17.943 --> 00:47:34.284 Because, for anyone that hasn't discovered you yet, you've worked with arguably some of the most iconic names in the marketing space or online business and that kind of thing, and some really know some really amazing people and that are doing really amazing things in the world. 00:47:34.284 --> 00:47:42.534 So when working, you know when your work is going to be experienced by so many. 00:47:42.534 --> 00:47:48.032 Right, how do you navigate that Like, oh my God, is this enough? 00:47:48.032 --> 00:47:48.867 Oh my God, is this? 00:47:48.867 --> 00:48:04.211

You know, because not only is it your work, but your work now is representing someone else that obviously that adds a whole nother elephant Screw, a layer. 00:48:04.211 --> 00:48:25.371 It's just you know that could be massive forward, despite those you know potential fears of if it not working out the way that you and you know your, your collaborators want. 00:48:25.411 --> 00:48:28.099 Yeah, yeah, have you heard of the book existential kink? 00:48:28.099 --> 00:48:29.862 Okay, by the way, my favorite thing in the world is book recommendations. 00:48:41.605 --> 00:48:43.507 And you've now given two that I've not, if I could turn my books around me. 00:48:43.507 --> 00:48:44.849 So me too, I've got keep going for days existential kink. 00:48:44.849 --> 00:48:45.730 The author is carolyn lowell. 00:48:45.730 --> 00:49:03.045 I might be messing up that last name, but she talks about how the like so-called negative emotions that we experience like our shadow right that there's some part of us that actually wants that experience because in some way it benefits us. 00:49:04.188 --> 00:49:30.938 And I have looked at this a lot through the lens of all the shame and doubt, and you know all the emotions that come up when you are putting yourself out there or when it's a high stakes situation and you're representing someone else's voice and it needs to be as close to perfect as it can possibly be. 00:49:30.938 --> 00:49:49.777 You know, when people are paying a lot of money, they have high expectations, and so there is a lot of pressure and a range of what we could call negative emotions that come with that. 00:49:49.777 --> 00:50:03.550 And yet on some level I can recognize that they have served me and they're not necessary to achieve the required result. 00:50:03.550 --> 00:50:12.396 But in the past, when I have felt that pressure to look over it again, make it better. 00:50:12.396 --> 00:50:17.471 Get feedback from this other person who I respect and trust. 00:50:17.471 --> 00:50:21.737 You know, look at it from all angles. 00:50:21.737 --> 00:50:23.065 What am I not seeing? 00:50:23.065 --> 00:50:48.936 Like just the whole idea of going above and beyond what most people would do, I think actually served me in my early years of writing copy for big names and having a lot, of, a lot of pressure to make it work and be successful. 00:50:49.757 --> 00:50:57.893 And and today, now that I've, like, integrated those, those shadow elements, I can do those things. 00:50:57.893 --> 00:51:14.559 I can ask for help and get another pair of eyes and have a really high attention to detail and not have shame and fear around those actions. 00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:18.405 The actions don't change, but the energy does. 00:51:18.405 --> 00:51:32.777 And yet could I have done, would I have done those things in the beginning, if I didn't feel that anxiety and that desire to make it perfect? 00:51:32.777 --> 00:51:34.565 I don't know Like. 00:51:34.565 --> 00:51:38.987 I actually am kind of grateful on some level that I did feel those things. 00:51:38.987 --> 00:51:59.958 And you know my own dysregulated nervous system when I was 23 years old and starting out was a whole slew of chaos with almost any action, like even making a little post on Facebook, because it was just Facebook back in the day. 00:51:59.958 --> 00:52:04.532 It wasn't even Instagram like big and scary right. 00:52:04.532 --> 00:52:09.268 And with time and practice and integration. 00:52:09.268 --> 00:52:15.788 Now you know it's all good, but yeah. 00:52:16.128 --> 00:52:18.548 I love this and so I've. 00:52:18.548 --> 00:52:24.052 I want to be mindful of our time here and I have a couple more questions. 00:52:24.052 --> 00:52:48.222 If that's okay, yeah, perfect, and you can say no, by the way, but I want to connect some dots, and one thing that I was committed to achieving in our conversation today was, you know, I view your story as a prime example of what it looks like to live life on your terms. 00:52:48.222 --> 00:53:25.929 Looks like to live life on your terms, right, and I'm not intimately aware of your entire story, but when I came across your work, and even when I was researching it, going into this today, it resonates so deeply with what I'm evolving into, which looks like life on my terms, and so I really see, you know, what you've created as like kind of that North star in a lot of different ways, and that's not even talking about, like the money and the results, and we've not even discussed, like, how wildly successful your work has been and people and all the things, and, to be honest, like amazing, but this is actually the stuff that I care most about, right. 00:53:25.969 --> 00:53:46.123 So, but with that being said, I am, I'm curious about two things, so I'll start with, first, the word evidence, and this is something that's come up now a couple of times Commitment, conviction, evidence, right, it's been a through line, and then you were just talking about. 00:53:46.123 --> 00:53:49.193 You reached a place in your experience, and this is where I'm asking, because this is where I'm at now. 00:53:49.193 --> 00:53:58.858 This has been a huge shift that's happened for me in the last I would I mean it feels like few weeks, but potentially the last few months which is, the relationship to feedback has evolved. 00:53:58.858 --> 00:54:02.967 So I'm curious for you when? 00:54:02.967 --> 00:54:17.168 When did feedback shift from evidence of failing or not being good enough to feedback became evidence of succeeding and growing? 00:54:17.168 --> 00:54:18.693 And you're on the right path. 00:54:19.815 --> 00:54:24.847 Right, and do you have a qualifier in front of that feedback? 00:54:24.847 --> 00:54:30.699 Would you call it good feedback, bad feedback or just feedback in general? 00:54:31.460 --> 00:54:33.443 Good feedback, bad feedback or just feedback in general. 00:54:33.463 --> 00:54:37.389 Difficult the kind of feedback that makes

you defensive Right. 00:54:37.409 --> 00:54:42.115 Yeah, that feedback that triggers the shame that I'm, you know, one of my biggest. 00:54:42.115 --> 00:54:44.380 So my biggest shame story is that I'm not smart enough. 00:54:44.380 --> 00:55:00.539 And again, I'm familiar with where the root comes from, which is why I probably have for 200 and something books around me that I've read actually the majority of, because I've been so obsessed with becoming smart. 00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:13.896 But I share that, because the face of I'm a terrible writer and I know this is like just stop saying that and you get better which is true, I also it. 00:55:13.896 --> 00:55:14.657 It terrifies me. 00:55:15.139 --> 00:55:22.016 I do not do well with grammar, something my mother used to make fun of me for, like you know, I'd say something she's like okay, but can you spell it? 00:55:22.016 --> 00:55:23.347 I was like fuck off. 00:55:23.347 --> 00:55:31.380 And my mother and I spoke candidly, so that was something that she would, you know, she would be okay with. 00:55:31.380 --> 00:55:41.418 But, with that being said, I would be terrified to write because I knew that the moment someone was like, oh, that's a misspelled or oh, that, why is there a comma there? 00:55:41.418 --> 00:55:42.199 I'd be like what's a comma? 00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:44.052 Like literally. 00:55:44.052 --> 00:55:47.335 And then so I received that as like oh, I'm not getting better. 00:55:47.335 --> 00:55:48.931 It's proof that I'm actually not good. 00:55:48.931 --> 00:55:52.186 Yeah, not getting better. 00:55:52.186 --> 00:55:53.608 It's proof that I'm actually not good, yeah Right. 00:55:53.608 --> 00:55:57.134 So that kind of feedback that makes someone defensive or reactive versus reflective. 00:55:58.376 --> 00:56:01.744 Yeah, yeah, okay, two things come up for me. 00:56:01.744 --> 00:56:08.472 You said that to you purpose is a state. 00:56:09.815 --> 00:56:10.775 Emotional state yeah. 00:56:10.896 --> 00:56:11.836 An emotional state. 00:56:11.836 --> 00:56:15.501 Yeah, it's not like a destination. 00:56:16.364 --> 00:56:17.427 It's not something you find. 00:56:18.048 --> 00:56:22.057 Reach and attain and have and hold for the rest of your days. 00:56:22.057 --> 00:56:52.494 And, like I would say the same thing about the relationship to difficult feedback, about the relationship to difficult feedback and the perception of am I going to make this mean something and tell myself a whole story around it that limits me and makes me stop what I'm doing, or am I going to make it mean something else and make it mean that I'm actually? 00:56:52.494 --> 00:56:59.762 This is evidence that I'm trying and I'm learning and I'm growing and it's going to help me keep going. 00:56:59.762 --> 00:57:06.617 And I think it's normal to vacillate between those two states. 00:57:06.824 --> 00:57:15.367 I don't know that when I get difficult feedback, like I'll get like random trolly replies to my email. 00:57:15.367 --> 00:57:27.028 I'm not like super big or active on social media, so I don't get it on social media, but I definitely have a fear of it on social media because people can be just like so intense and angry. 00:57:27.028 --> 00:57:32.922 But for some reason, email has always felt like a safer space for me. 00:57:32.922 --> 00:57:54.565 But I still get people sometimes responding to my emails saying hurtful things and it's not like it doesn't ever not hurt, it doesn't ever not trigger this, and I have the exact same limiting belief as you that I'm not smart enough like it's it's. 00:57:55.065 --> 00:58:00.617 It's deep and well, you're pretty damn smart from my perspective so are you. 00:58:00.757 --> 00:58:01.418 So are you? 00:58:01.418 --> 00:58:03.106 But it doesn't matter, right? 00:58:03.106 --> 00:58:13.101 It's like these deep-seated, it's like the child within us that you know, the adult, the present moment, us is in the driver's seat. 00:58:13.101 --> 00:58:21.387 Maybe that's when it shifts, is when that isn't when we're most of the time in the driver's seat, but we're never all the time in the driver's seat. 00:58:22.356 --> 00:58:40.960 Like, like little us will will try to take the wheel when you get that tantrums like they'll throw a tantrum and then but it's like, can we grab it back and change that story around and continue to move forward? 00:58:40.960 --> 00:59:11.719 So I don't think it's a destination, um, but and then the other thing that came up for me was a big shift for me was understanding negativity, bias and how, how we're wired as humans to emphasize the negative so much, so heavily, like one negative interaction will, for many people, counteract a hundred positive. 00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:15.061 For many people counteract 100 positive interactions. 00:59:15.061 --> 00:59:26.126 Or you know, 100 kind email replies are just wiped out the minute someone tells me they think what I just sent them is a pile of shit. 00:59:26.126 --> 00:59:36.971 So, and it's like it's a protective mechanism, because we don't want to get kicked out of the tribe- Right. 00:59:37.690 --> 00:59:54.110 And so coming back like I think there is a lot of nervous system integration, it's everything they're like coming back to balance and stasis and processing our trauma and getting to know that little person within us. 00:59:54.110 --> 01:00:01.005 And then, over time, it's like can I come back from it a little bit faster than I would have in the past? 01:00:01.005 --> 01:00:03.536 Sure, that's the thing. 01:00:03.858 --> 01:00:05.081 I speak on quite a bit Again. 01:00:05.081 --> 01:00:12.288 My backstory is, you know, trauma and and what I learned is it's more important to learn. 01:00:12.288 --> 01:00:16.496 Well, actually, may I just pose this little question, all right? 01:00:16.496 --> 01:00:24.760 So, in your opinion, which and I'm going to use the word successful, just take it for whatever that means to you. 01:00:24.760 -->

01:00:25.362 Right? 01:00:25.362 --> 01:00:31.239 But in your opinion, what is a more powerful strategy of success? 01:00:31.239 --> 01:00:37.835 Is it to appear more perfect or learn how to recover more quickly? 01:00:38.115 --> 01:00:44.012 absolutely recover more quickly and why and your experience. 01:00:44.052 --> 01:00:45.094 Why is that more important? 01:00:46.135 --> 01:01:05.903 well appearing more perfect, like it doesn't matter if you don't feel that perfection and by perfection I don't mean necessarily just the surface level, like what other people are seeing looks perfect. 01:01:05.903 --> 01:01:27.329 It's like feeling the perfection of imperfection, of just being a human and knowing that we're all going through it, and and having that grace and compassion for yourself and and then in turn for everybody else. 01:01:27.329 --> 01:01:38.329 So coming back from it like that to me is reminding yourself of your own perfection and everyone else's. 01:01:40.175 --> 01:01:51.655 That's the skill I believe in most is, you know, if we could all just learn how to recover a little, you know, a little faster, a little more quickly, that's that's when your life begins to change, right? 01:01:52.237 --> 01:02:17.561 You know, when you find yourself hijacked, you know, may have sent you off the rails for three days, well, now it only takes two, then one, and then so on and so forth, and eventually you feel that reactive response and you're able to catch it before you do something with it, right, yeah, and that's the game I've found, yeah, and I love that. 01:02:17.561 --> 01:02:27.590 So one last question, and I know, again, you need to go a little question, and then I want a reflection that I'd like to share. 01:02:27.590 --> 01:02:32.061 So the question is I believe in collaboration, right? 01:02:32.061 --> 01:02:38.501 So so I conversations over content, you know, collaboration over competition, all that stuff. 01:02:38.501 --> 01:02:39.483 I truly believe in that. 01:02:39.483 --> 01:02:54.581 And you know, and you know, if you're speaking to someone who is just getting started battling a lot of those, you know inevitable trials and tribulations and let's assume they've got they, they, they're pretty clear on who they are, right. 01:02:54.601 --> 01:02:55.335 They know who they are. 01:02:55.335 --> 01:02:56.478 They have a vision. 01:02:56.579 --> 01:02:59.326 But all of the well, what the hell do I do? 01:02:59.326 --> 01:03:00.128 How do I get there? 01:03:00.128 --> 01:03:01.739 I'm in these circumstances. 01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:23.471 I don't know these people yet, but all the stuff, how, in your experience, when you were coming up like who was the one person that you collabed with, whatever that means, that really kind of opened the doors for what has become your career today. 01:03:25.815 --> 01:04:10.829 Oh, my goodness, to this day, a big proponent of having a coach or a mentor or support on some level from someone who is like a few steps ahead of you, and I like that a few steps ahead of you, caveat, because when people are too far ahead of us, it feels out of reach, it's hard to relate, there's like a bigger gap to cross, whereas when someone's just like they've been where you are, but there are a few steps ahead and they figured some stuff out that you're trying to figure out, that is a game changer. 01:04:11.494 --> 01:04:31.920 So when I decided, okay, I am going to leave this company that I'm working for, where I tried the quiz and it worked really well, that I'm going to go out on my own, and I had already previously, like quote, unquote, failed at freelance writing and it, you know, there was like wounds there. 01:04:31.920 --> 01:05:06.420 But I'm'm gonna try again, I'm gonna dust myself off and I the first thing I did was I joined this mentorship program with two copywriters who I really look up, looked up to, I look up to them today too, and it was a scary investment and I was not certain whatsoever, but something I had a coach tell me once was you don't have to believe it, you get to borrow my belief. 01:05:06.681 --> 01:05:15.820 That's why you're working with me and it's powerful when you can borrow someone else's belief, and that's really what I did. 01:05:15.820 --> 01:06:13.027 They believed in me so hard that it inspired me to keep going and they were, you know, generous in the sense that the community was super connected, like we went beyond surface level there a it was a program, so there was other people in the community and the coaches and mentors were like constantly making connections and introducing people and really like cared, and that, I think, made all the difference and taught me the power of one positive relationship and that's like a massive ripple effect occurred because of that decision and those people. 01:06:14.077 --> 01:06:16.713 Yeah, I love the word care right because of that decision and those people. 01:06:16.713 --> 01:06:17.478 Yeah, I love the word care right. 01:06:17.478 --> 01:06:25.059 If we could all learn how to scale more caring then we, if we spend as much time trying to learn how to scale caring as we do. 01:06:25.059 --> 01:06:25.679 Content. 01:06:26.862 --> 01:06:30.748 Yeah, wow, totally, I love yeah. 01:06:30.748 --> 01:06:35.920 Well right and it's like it feels sometimes like it's at a deficit and like that's sometimes like it's at a deficit and like that's really hard to find. 01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:44.684 And you know, I I don't know if it is or it isn't, I tend to run into it a lot. 01:06:44.684 --> 01:06:50.867 It's like I feel like people care more than sometimes are. 01:06:50.867 --> 01:06:57.565 Like little angry teenager voice within tells us. 01:06:58.456 --> 01:06:59.661 Yeah, absolutely. 01:07:00.565 --> 01:07:01.710 Yeah, yeah. 01:07:02.195 --> 01:07:07.742 Well, I appreciate all that you shared, most importantly your time. 01:07:07.742 --> 01:07:22.108 And one last thing I'm going to kind of leave as a

parting word is a reflection from this conversation, and I've been thinking about this since. 01:07:22.108 --> 01:07:48.514 You mentioned it in the very beginning, but you were talking about how gifted and skilled your husband is at building things and creating things and fixing things, and you specifically mentioned the barn project that you have undertaken and, if I'm not mistaken, it's it's an older barn that you guys are kind of bringing back to life with purpose and attention. 01:07:48.514 --> 01:07:55.226 Now that you got this little, this little nugget, as my fiance and I would call it the baby cow. 01:07:55.226 --> 01:08:12.400 Everything is a chicken to us, by the way, we call everything a little chicken, um, so you got this little chicken that happens to be a cow and, uh, the thing that I've recognized in this conversation is that I believe you and him have the exact same gift right. 01:08:12.442 --> 01:08:21.881 What he may be doing with this barn, I believe, is what you do with people's vision and their past. 01:08:21.881 --> 01:08:27.412 Like you take, you're able to take and understand deeply. 01:08:27.412 --> 01:08:30.560 You know the broken barn part of their life. 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:37.439 You know the doubts, the shames, the uncertainties, the maybe even the convictions to the wrong things. 01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:38.721 Who knows what that might be? 01:08:38.721 --> 01:08:51.442 And through just even an hour with you today and, and you know, I realized very quickly, like how just gifted you are, natural it comes to you to to allow that space to exist. 01:08:51.442 --> 01:09:01.967 And then you start to, you know, rebuild them, you know, and their future, you know, by whatever skill, whatever craft, whatever tools you may find. 01:09:01.967 --> 01:09:09.228 So, yeah, I would say that you two are exactly the same and have the exact same gifts. 01:09:09.228 --> 01:09:13.162 So thank you for what you do and for what he does. 01:09:13.162 --> 01:09:14.787 Thank you. 01:09:15.114 --> 01:09:19.067 I will let him know that you said that, absolutely. 01:09:19.067 --> 01:09:21.302 I'll tell you his reaction. 01:09:21.302 --> 01:09:27.904 He'll probably laugh and make fun of me for not being able to tell what a right angle is. 01:09:29.987 --> 01:09:32.250 That's fair, thank you. 01:09:32.250 --> 01:09:34.801 He does write in angles, you do? 01:09:34.801 --> 01:09:37.862 You know daddy issues and copywriting? 01:09:37.902 --> 01:09:43.046 Yeah, they're all the same he has to write a hard email to someone. 01:09:43.046 --> 01:09:44.399 You better believe I'm writing it. 01:09:45.261 --> 01:09:48.180 Right, you bring out the soul, like I got this one. 01:09:48.180 --> 01:09:51.457 I love it. 01:09:51.457 --> 01:09:53.042 Well, shanti, thank you so much. 01:09:53.042 --> 01:09:58.260 I appreciate you and I look forward to continuing to uh, to follow in your footsteps. 01:09:58.260 --> 01:10:05.402 Uh, if even you know from afar and um, yeah, thank you for living life and having the courage to do it your way. 01:10:06.846 --> 01:10:08.452 Thank you, appreciate you. 01:10:08.452 --> 01:10:09.475 Thanks for having me. 01:10:10.777 --> 01:10:11.237 Thank you.