TRANSCRIPTION 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:01.723 --> 00:00:08.554
Get ready to be captivated and intrigued as we delve into my life of spirits and all things paranormal.
00:00:08.554 --> 00:00:22.053
Join me, your host, ay Lane, on The Laneway to Spirit, as I share my stories and personal experiences in the hopes of inspiring others to explore their own spirituality.
00:00:22.053 --> 00:00:26.530
Grab your favorite mug and settle in and let's get started.
00:00:26.530 --> 00:00:39.384
Hello and welcome to the language spirit.
00:00:39.384 --> 00:00:55.545
I am so excited to introduce to you today a very special guest, kim Sweeney, who is the sister of Renee Sweeney, who was brutally murdered at a video store on Paris Street in Sudbury on January 27th, 1998.
00:00:55.545 --> 00:01:01.682
The brutal stabbing of 23-year-old Renee rocked the city of Sudbury to its core.
00:01:01.682 --> 00:01:17.569
It was the Nickel Capital's biggest whodunit case the murder of a young university student that went unresolved until the police announced late in 2018 that they had arrested a former city resident who had been living in North Bay.
00:01:17.569 --> 00:01:31.170
Today, we'll discuss the background of the case, investigative insights, the role of psychics in the case, and Kim's advice or encouragement for other families affected by violence.
00:01:31.170 --> 00:01:32.733
Welcome, Kim.
00:01:32.733 --> 00:01:35.085
Thank you so much for joining me here today.
00:01:35.706 --> 00:01:37.691
Hi, ay, thanks so much for having me.
00:01:38.420 --> 00:01:40.724
Oh my God, I'm so excited to talk about this.
00:01:40.724 --> 00:01:42.188
Hasn't it been a while?
00:01:42.188 --> 00:01:44.933
I mean, isn't it crazy, all of this stuff?
00:01:45.635 --> 00:01:45.775
it's.
00:01:45.775 --> 00:01:55.740
It's been a whole lifetime actually, of everything you know, right from right before it happened and everything up to today.
00:01:56.001 --> 00:02:06.606
So it's been crazy, quite the quite the road oh, I can't even imagine what you and your family's been through, so I wanted to ask you some questions in regards to this.
00:02:06.606 --> 00:02:11.775
Like, especially like what do you remember about the day that Renee was murdered?
00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:28.719
home.
00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:35.491
I went back to my apartment and I had a message on my answering machine the actual machine and it was my stepfather just saying I needed to get to the house right away.
00:02:35.491 --> 00:02:45.319
So I, my, I just thought, oh God, it's my mom, cause my mom had MS and you know she was still doing relatively well at the time, and so I just kept.
00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:51.703
I kept calling Renee at work, thinking, okay, well, we got to, you know she'll meet me there, and the phone was busy.
00:02:51.703 --> 00:02:53.306
So I just kept trying.
00:02:53.306 --> 00:02:57.301
And then I thought, oh, she took the phone off the hook and she's going to be with mom.
00:02:58.103 --> 00:03:01.728
So for some reason that day I didn't end up going the normal way.
00:03:01.728 --> 00:03:08.301
I lived in New Sudbury, so normally I would take Notre Dame up Paris.
00:03:08.301 --> 00:03:09.623
I didn't.
00:03:09.623 --> 00:03:13.670
I went straight and I ended up doing Fruit Road to Regent.
00:03:13.670 --> 00:03:15.414
I have no idea why.
00:03:15.414 --> 00:03:23.401
Anyway, I got to the driveway at my parents' house and thought I'd see Renee's car here and I didn't.
00:03:23.401 --> 00:03:25.750
So I thought that was weird.
00:03:26.561 --> 00:03:29.009
I came in the house and I can hear my mom crying.
00:03:29.009 --> 00:03:32.748
So I thought, oh my God, what, you know what?
00:03:32.748 --> 00:03:34.466
I had no idea what was going on.
00:03:34.466 --> 00:03:40.272
So I came up and somebody grabbed my coat.
00:03:40.272 --> 00:03:45.949
I didn't know who it was, I just assumed it was a home care worker who was here.
00:03:45.949 --> 00:03:47.822
So they grabbed my coat.
00:03:47.822 --> 00:03:49.506
Little did I know it was a police officer.
00:03:50.769 --> 00:03:52.152
And I was standing in the kitchen.
00:03:52.152 --> 00:04:03.705
My stepfather says my mom was sitting at the table crying, and my stepfather says to me there's been an accident, okay, and at the store.
00:04:03.705 --> 00:04:06.248
So I couldn't think what store.
00:04:06.248 --> 00:04:11.695
And then, um, he said, uh, renee's been shot.
00:04:11.695 --> 00:04:15.426
And I?
00:04:15.426 --> 00:04:17.110
I just started looking for my coat.
00:04:17.110 --> 00:04:19.473
I needed to get to the hospital to go see her.
00:04:19.473 --> 00:04:22.204
So I was panicking, like you know, trying to find my coat.
00:04:22.204 --> 00:04:26.374
And then he said she's gone.
00:04:26.374 --> 00:04:41.146
And I know I fell against the wall and fell down to the floor, and that was pretty much what I remember for that day, you know.
00:04:41.267 --> 00:04:44.211
And then after that it was like, well, you know who did this?
00:04:44.211 --> 00:04:44.692
Why?
00:04:44.692 --> 00:04:46.995
You know what do they want?
00:04:46.995 --> 00:04:48.783
Why?
00:04:48.783 --> 00:04:50.165
Why would you do this?
00:04:50.165 --> 00:04:54.492
And um, then the fear set in because we didn't know.
00:04:54.492 --> 00:04:58.564
I, I was told she was shot, because that's what originally was told.
00:04:58.564 --> 00:05:03.651
And how my parents found out is they were actually watching the new news and the?
00:05:03.651 --> 00:05:11.771
Uh came up on the news and they're like oh god, you know that's renee's car there in the parking lot.
00:05:11.771 --> 00:05:46.915
So my stepfather went down to uh, to the paris plaza, and uh said I, you know, I think my daughter's in there, and because at the time I don't think they knew quite who it was, and yeah, that's when I guess they kept them there for a bit and then they all came back here while they continued their investigation it was just so many answered questions and it changed
Load full transcript
your life as you know it, that moment, forever.
00:05:48.218 --> 00:05:52.569
You know, when I didn't know what I was coming to, I thought maybe something was with my mom.
00:05:52.569 --> 00:05:56.230
And when I was reaching out to my best friend, my rock.
00:05:56.230 --> 00:06:14.026
You know, when it comes to a family situation where we have to deal with things together, like when I lost, when we lost our father in 1990 to suicide, we we gravitated towards each other and, you know, dealt with it like that.
00:06:14.026 --> 00:06:19.387
So I thought this was another time I was going to need her, that we were going to have to deal with something.
00:06:19.387 --> 00:06:23.767
Little did I know, you know it was her this time.
00:06:23.767 --> 00:06:24.291
Yeah, I understand.
00:06:24.312 --> 00:06:24.795
So it was her this time.
00:06:24.795 --> 00:06:25.319
Yeah, I understand.
00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:31.552
So, speaking of her, what was she like as a person?
00:06:31.552 --> 00:06:37.168
Because I know from speaking with you what she's like as a person.
00:06:37.168 --> 00:06:38.713
But what was Renee like?
00:06:39.339 --> 00:06:43.151
Renee was a strong, independent woman.
00:06:43.151 --> 00:06:48.329
She, you know, didn't ask anybody for anything.
00:06:48.329 --> 00:06:58.654
She got the job done by herself, figured stuff out, and she was a very talented musician.
00:06:58.654 --> 00:07:03.451
She played in the Sudbury Symphony Orchestra.
00:07:03.451 --> 00:07:05.137
She had a lot on the go.
00:07:05.137 --> 00:07:06.399
She was kickboxing.
00:07:07.255 --> 00:07:07.399
Wow.
00:07:07.841 --> 00:07:16.045
So you know, she was doing stuff like that and she kept herself busy and, yeah, she was awesome.
00:07:16.045 --> 00:07:16.786
She was funny too.
00:07:16.786 --> 00:07:21.557
She was funny I'm more the joker, the kidder, but she had her moments as well.
00:07:21.579 --> 00:07:24.889
So Speaking of her.
00:07:24.889 --> 00:07:29.521
How did the family cope with the immediate aftermath of her murder?
00:07:31.845 --> 00:07:31.964
it.
00:07:31.964 --> 00:07:36.250
It was more, so much more than coping with her death.
00:07:36.250 --> 00:07:48.401
You know, that morning my mom got up and walked around the house and, and that afternoon my mom was bound to her wheelchair, never walked again.
00:07:48.401 --> 00:07:56.341
So you know, getting losing someone in itself is is is horrible, getting used to.
00:07:56.341 --> 00:08:01.560
You know you can't pick up the phone and call them, or when you would normally get together, and all that.
00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:04.127
So that changes everything, everything.
00:08:04.148 --> 00:08:13.555
But in our situation it was getting my mom situated and organized with how her life was going to forever be.
00:08:13.555 --> 00:08:27.882
You know like there was a lot that needed to be done in the house renovations to widen up the doorways, change door handles, even like the sink, the bathroom sink, you know, to
grab the tap, to turn the taps on.
00:08:27.882 --> 00:08:29.245
That was impossible for her.
00:08:29.245 --> 00:08:45.715
So just the little things, um, they had to put a chairlift in the house, um, a chairlift going downstairs and a wheelchair lift coming from the main up to the like, from the main entrance up to the like, from the main entrance up to the main floor.
00:08:45.715 --> 00:08:51.489
So you know it, it it was everything and all that.
00:08:51.489 --> 00:08:54.453
You know very sad that this is what.
00:08:54.453 --> 00:08:59.549
What life is now Right, Especially for my, for my mom.
00:09:00.230 --> 00:09:00.410
Yeah.
00:09:00.672 --> 00:09:01.052
That was.
00:09:01.092 --> 00:09:09.092
that was difficult so but for you too, because I remember speaking to you and you were so afraid to go out.
00:09:11.504 --> 00:09:13.390
Oh, I was petrified.
00:09:13.390 --> 00:09:18.412
If I was coming to your house, you needed to wait outside for me.
00:09:18.412 --> 00:09:21.249
We didn't have cell phones back then.
00:09:21.249 --> 00:09:26.903
I'm waiting for someone to walk me to my car, to take me out in my own driveway to the car.
00:09:26.903 --> 00:09:37.230
And if I'm coming to your house, you need to come to your driveway and you need to come physically, come to my car and get me so that we could walk in together.
00:09:39.932 --> 00:09:46.618
In stores and doing everyday things was difficult because of the fear, but not only that.
00:09:46.618 --> 00:09:57.741
You know like you get your composure to walk in a store, like, okay, I'm not going to cry, and then you go to the door and there was the poster, the poster with the jacket that they had found just soaked in her blood.
00:09:57.741 --> 00:10:24.975
So you know, you'd see that as you walk into every store, every store, every place in Sudbury had that and then you like get all choked up and sometimes you just turn around and leave and you know now everything's online, but at that time it was like newspaper stands everywhere and there was a lot like this case was definitely in the media, a lot, you know.
00:10:24.975 --> 00:10:27.541
So be it, because it it just shook the whole city.
00:10:27.541 --> 00:10:43.490
But, um, yeah, so it was hard to, you know, get used to things and stuff and yeah, yeah, just to cope, just to cope, yeah, absolutely Can't even imagine.
00:10:44.111 --> 00:10:53.451
Now I wanted to talk a bit about the investigation, and we all know that the police investigated this for quite a while.
00:10:53.451 --> 00:10:56.870
We know that they couldn't find anyone for a while.
00:10:56.870 --> 00:11:00.168
But what was the big tera with that investigation?
00:11:00.168 --> 00:11:01.091
What stood out to you?
00:11:01.841 --> 00:11:04.066
Oh, it absolutely has to be.
00:11:04.066 --> 00:11:25.235
When they did the Parabon DNA phenotyping, that's where they submit a blood sample and that blood sample will actually describe what you look like, the features you have, the color of eyes, color of hair, you know, total, total outline of your face.
00:11:25.235 --> 00:11:41.434
It's amazing what technology can do now, like in 1998 they only had points of dna, you know, and they would also use, like um, still, if you were a, b, a pause, you know a, b or yeah, that kind of thing.
00:11:41.434 --> 00:11:46.722
But now to just submit a little bit of blood to them and they can actually say what you look like.
00:11:46.722 --> 00:12:05.913
And if you look that up, the two, what the Parabon said he should look like, and what he actually looks like is, it's amazing, it's the same person, yeah, and when I was shown that picture, I was asked do you know this guy?
00:12:07.260 --> 00:12:10.691
And my answer is yeah, I do know that guy.
00:12:10.691 --> 00:12:14.828
And then I was asked well, what's their name?
00:12:14.828 --> 00:12:18.167
I don't know, this face is so familiar.
00:12:18.167 --> 00:12:19.520
It was just.
00:12:19.520 --> 00:12:29.283
It was frustrating because it was like I had seen him before, but, as it turns out, I had never seen him before.
00:12:29.283 --> 00:12:33.822
You know, once we realized who it actually was, but it was just unbelievable.
00:12:33.822 --> 00:12:37.610
It just made you feel I don't know what it was, but it was.
00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:38.653
It was crazy.
00:12:38.653 --> 00:12:51.589
So when that came out, you know it generated a lot of new tips, a lot of new tips, a lot of new tips oh yeah, but unfortunately, none of those ever brought us to the right person.
00:12:52.150 --> 00:13:03.929
it wasn't until, um, the ancestry people started doing that and then you put it in a ged and that's when there was a hit.
00:13:03.929 --> 00:13:15.722
So if you, you know, it was a while back, so there were two hits within the case and one was from each side of the family, and then you have to do the homework in between to find out.
00:13:15.722 --> 00:13:27.421
You know where they meet and then the descendants of that, descendants of that.
00:13:27.421 --> 00:13:28.403
So that took some time.
00:13:28.403 --> 00:13:44.389
But, amazing technology, when we went to, when there was the bail hearing in February I guess February 2019, the judge said he just said this is a case about science and only science.
00:13:44.389 --> 00:13:46.393
You know as far.
00:13:46.393 --> 00:13:49.710
So you know that was and it's true.
00:13:49.710 --> 00:13:52.008
That's what it came down to science.
00:13:52.880 --> 00:13:55.149
Because, they had another suspect before that.
00:13:55.149 --> 00:14:00.230
I remember that and you know this became part of the case as well.
00:14:00.230 --> 00:14:03.607
I still remember we argued that quite a bit.
00:14:03.607 --> 00:14:05.986
But I mean, dna doesn't doesn't lie right.
00:14:06.106 --> 00:14:07.410
DNA does not lie.
00:14:07.410 --> 00:14:26.072
No, yes, they did arrest somebody, uh, in 1998, a few weeks after, but, and that was just what, going by, fingerprints
which said were a match, but then they, upon further investigation, were not a match, and yeah, so that.
00:14:26.072 --> 00:14:30.116
But when DNA was done this time around it was one in a.
00:14:30.116 --> 00:14:39.434
I believe he, the crown, had said quintillion which means that's 18 zeros behind the number.
00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.085
I mean, how accurate is that?
00:14:42.085 --> 00:14:43.147
I mean, it's crazy.
00:14:43.147 --> 00:14:45.673
I find that so interesting.
00:14:45.673 --> 00:14:54.971
I followed that case quite closely, as you all know, but I wanted to talk to you about the role of psychics in this, because I know that you had been approached by different psychics.
00:14:54.971 --> 00:14:59.812
What led you to consult psychics when it came to her murder?
00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:10.211
So that's a whole thing in itself, like you're a believer or you're not a believer, but you become at times so desperate for just anything.
00:15:10.211 --> 00:15:17.470
You'll just take anything and even if it's not right, you're trying to make sense of something.
00:15:17.470 --> 00:15:24.206
I would have people call me all the time oh, I think it's this person because of you know, they give you a scenario and you're like, well, maybe that's what it is.
00:15:24.206 --> 00:15:25.860
You know, they give you a scenario and you're like, well, well, maybe that's what it is.
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:26.201
You know.
00:15:26.201 --> 00:15:44.846
But originally I had I contacted you and there was people who there were girls from the villa, which is where my mom was had gone to see you, and all that kept happening for them was Renee kept coming in.
00:15:44.846 --> 00:15:49.408
So I had a few of the girls there approached me and say you know, do you believe in mediums?
00:15:49.408 --> 00:15:52.485
And I said, well, I don't even know what a medium is.
00:15:52.485 --> 00:15:56.400
So they explained stuff and they said, well, renee keeps coming through.
00:15:56.400 --> 00:16:10.530
So I had set up an appointment with you and you had no idea who I was or what, and the very first thing you said to me was she wants me to tell you it didn't hurt, right?
00:16:10.530 --> 00:16:15.423
And I just started crying and crying.
00:16:15.423 --> 00:16:18.688
And then you were like thinking what's going on.
00:16:18.688 --> 00:16:27.841
And then you went on and you said you know, when something bad happens, adrenaline takes over and you know that's why you don't feel anything.
00:16:27.841 --> 00:16:34.121
And then you paused and you said, oh, is this the Sweeney case?
00:16:34.121 --> 00:16:37.687
And I said, yeah, so you kind of you.
00:16:37.687 --> 00:16:42.565
You had said, you know, I wasn't really, I haven't really, I don't really know too too much about it.
00:16:42.565 --> 00:16:51.736
But you know, all I got from that day was that she didn't know him and that it didn't hurt, because that was my biggest thing.
00:16:51.736 --> 00:17:03.330
And if that's all
I ever got from that, I was okay because I just thought the whole time why did I, you know, why wasn't I there to help her?
00:17:03.330 --> 00:17:04.971
Why did she have to do this by herself?
00:17:19.654 --> 00:17:24.005
That were said at the time from you that you had said, and you know, but, um, my stepsister went to see you and you won't, you won't remember this, Jay.
00:17:24.005 --> 00:17:26.309
You said the street she lived on.
00:17:26.309 --> 00:17:29.737
You described the area with the green stairs.
00:17:29.737 --> 00:17:35.724
You described her boyfriend that he wasn't from Sudbury.
00:17:35.724 --> 00:17:43.164
You described, you said he was from near water and you said, like the Sioux, which is where he was from.
00:17:43.164 --> 00:17:47.006
And then you said, but he's not there either.
00:17:47.006 --> 00:17:50.204
He is by water again.
00:17:50.204 --> 00:17:54.882
And then you said Windsor, and that's where he is.
00:17:54.882 --> 00:18:06.446
You said you know he was, he was a drummer, you know like drumming hands, and you're like he's a drummer and you came up.
00:18:07.115 --> 00:18:07.455
He was.
00:18:07.455 --> 00:18:09.000
He is a drummer, actually, he.
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.066
He just played at a bell park.
00:18:11.066 --> 00:18:14.284
He does a kiss cover band, so he was here this summer.
00:18:14.284 --> 00:18:17.362
They did, they played here in Sudbury.
00:18:17.563 --> 00:18:25.929
So yeah, there was so much stuff that you had said, but she didn't know the details of stuff.
00:18:25.929 --> 00:18:46.945
So you were just talking and she was just going oh yeah, you had my name, both my kids' names, my mom's name, with her not even realizing what again the story behind it, just that Renee was coming in and just, you know, I lived on Laura and there was the green stairs.
00:18:46.945 --> 00:19:01.757
You know, you just nailed it all and then so I had to make an appointment with you after that, and that's when you said his name's Robert, robert, robert, that's his name.
00:19:01.757 --> 00:19:07.067
R-t, r-t, rutt, r-r-rutt, r-r-rutt.
00:19:07.067 --> 00:19:08.619
Yeah, you kept saying that.
00:19:08.619 --> 00:19:14.887
And I had somebody else tell me Rob, yeah, robert.
00:19:15.777 --> 00:19:16.902
So that was weird.
00:19:16.902 --> 00:19:22.203
I had another lady tell me that she could smell blood.
00:19:22.203 --> 00:19:25.142
She could smell blood.
00:19:25.142 --> 00:19:41.595
So at that time, if she could smell blood in a hospital, and at that time I thought, well, there was a lot of blood Little did we know he was taking people's blood at the hospital in North Bay, yeah, yeah.
00:19:41.595 --> 00:19:46.299
So you know, there there's so many things that have come through.
00:19:46.299 --> 00:19:49.683
You just kind of go like, wow, this is, this is unbelievable.
00:19:49.683 --> 00:19:50.085
How do?
00:19:50.085 --> 00:19:52.688
How does anybody know?
00:19:52.688 --> 00:19:55.471
Right, like, but the name yeah.
00:20:01.997 --> 00:20:05.801
Yeah, no right like, but the name, yeah, yeah, robert, which is weird because it's not a name.
00:20:05.823 --> 00:20:06.022
He goes by.
00:20:06.022 --> 00:20:06.462
Yeah, but it's still.
00:20:06.462 --> 00:20:07.925
Yeah, it was the last name.
00:20:07.925 --> 00:20:08.646
It was rut.
00:20:08.646 --> 00:20:15.762
I still remember our art art arties kept on seeing and his last name was right, yep, yeah.
00:20:16.203 --> 00:20:36.548
So, yeah, kind of weird for me, but you know it's funny because I was visited by the police on three different occasions and it was the last officer that I spoke with who I felt was going in the wrong direction and I told him that I felt it was more based on a sexual assault than it was a robbery.
00:20:36.548 --> 00:20:42.105
And I also gave him his name Robert RT or Rutt.
00:20:43.087 --> 00:20:49.599
Yeah, and I still remember that and I stuck to that because that's what I was hearing and so little did I know.
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.401
His last name was right and so it was interesting.
00:20:52.401 --> 00:20:58.788
So did any of these psychic insights lead to any new leads or evidence in the case?
00:20:58.788 --> 00:21:00.801
Did you talk to the police about this?
00:21:01.635 --> 00:21:32.090
Every time I had new information, I always reached out to Officer Weston Sergeant Weston and, yeah, he probably thinks I'm crazy with the stuff that I would come like I got another one, I would send him screenshots of conversations and and, because sometimes I'd feel like, are people messaging me and reaching out to me because they think I can just go and arrest somebody like, yeah, you know, like I had this superpower or something.
00:21:32.090 --> 00:21:48.471
But you know, and he always took everything I said and, you know, gave me my dignity, so he didn't make me feel crazy, and because you know, some of the stories I had heard that I relate to him I'm sure were pretty far-fetched, but you're desperate.
00:21:48.471 --> 00:21:50.155
You're desperate after all.
00:21:50.155 --> 00:21:54.101
This time something has to you know something.
00:21:54.101 --> 00:22:14.526
So I relayed everything to him and he said, yes, there was one time in particular, I was at the vet's office and this is where it kind of hits you hard, because you look at everybody you like, accuse everybody in your mind if they have some sort of similarity.
00:22:14.586 --> 00:22:17.635
Any man with glasses, right, you'd be like it was you.
00:22:17.635 --> 00:22:20.261
Well, it had to be you, you know.
00:22:20.261 --> 00:22:31.659
So, yeah, I was sitting there with my son and waiting for my dog and the lady came out and she says oh, I'm in there with my brother, yeah, his cat.
00:22:31.659 --> 00:22:33.064
I drove him here.
00:22:33.064 --> 00:22:35.432
His cat's really sick, I don't you know.
00:22:35.432 --> 00:22:36.816
He's going to take this really hard.
00:22:36.816 --> 00:22:39.580
So I got a little
bit of you know insight on it.
00:22:39.580 --> 00:22:46.902
And then the brother came out and I froze I'm, that's him, that's, that's him.
00:22:46.902 --> 00:22:48.025
Oh, my God, that's him.
00:22:48.025 --> 00:22:55.227
And I want to walk up to him and take a picture and and and you, there's so much I want to do, but what if it's not him?
00:22:55.227 --> 00:22:55.929
Right?
00:22:55.929 --> 00:22:58.957
You, there's so much I want to do, but what if it's not him?
00:22:58.957 --> 00:22:59.377
Right I?
00:22:59.397 --> 00:23:00.278
have to remember that too.
00:23:00.278 --> 00:23:01.461
What if it's not?
00:23:01.461 --> 00:23:04.184
So I I like instant crying, just tears in my eyes.
00:23:04.184 --> 00:23:04.905
I froze.
00:23:04.905 --> 00:23:10.378
So all I could do was um, get the license plate they drove away with.
00:23:10.378 --> 00:23:17.710
And I reached out and I said here's the situation, here's what happened, here's the license plate number.
00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:20.362
And it was ran through.
00:23:20.362 --> 00:23:24.346
And I said now, this is the sister of the guy.
00:23:24.346 --> 00:23:30.634
So he ran it through and I got back yeah, he was cleared.
00:23:30.634 --> 00:23:34.906
He was cleared in 1998 through DNA.
00:23:36.095 --> 00:23:39.895
Oh okay, so I'm not crazy, because you guys must have thought it was him too.
00:23:39.895 --> 00:23:47.576
So, but you know it to sit there and think that you know I judge this person and you can't help it.
00:23:47.576 --> 00:23:49.038
But you the guilt.
00:23:49.038 --> 00:23:52.468
You feel like I judge this person because what if it was?
00:23:53.170 --> 00:23:54.031
yeah what?
00:23:54.172 --> 00:23:55.038
what if it was him?
00:23:55.038 --> 00:24:08.381
Yeah, you know, because you're, you're angry that after all these years of you know what you did to my family, what you did to her, what you put her through yeah you know the out, the outcome of everything.
00:24:08.421 --> 00:24:21.939
You know so, but that was yeah, that was just one of the many things that had happened that they took it and listened to me, and you know, I never got answers or names of people who.
00:24:21.939 --> 00:24:23.942
It was just that you know.
00:24:23.942 --> 00:24:28.707
No, it can't be that person, because you know they had an alibi or they were.
00:24:28.707 --> 00:24:31.229
You know, one lady always reached out to me.
00:24:31.229 --> 00:24:32.049
It's my husband.
00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:32.810
I know it was him.
00:24:32.810 --> 00:24:40.498
I know, and I relay that message and they say, no, it wasn't him.
00:24:40.498 --> 00:24:43.286
He was incarcerated at the time, so it couldn't have been him.
00:24:43.286 --> 00:24:47.825
You know, she just wanted to try to nail her husband for something that he didn't do.
00:24:47.825 --> 00:24:52.566
So you know, and there's a lot of that, surprisingly enough, there's a lot of that.
00:24:52.566 --> 00:24:53.317
Oh, yes.
00:24:53.356 --> 00:24:57.907
I
try to frame people or even try to say I did it, so I understand.
00:24:58.675 --> 00:25:14.349
I would get a lot of calls from people, or even clients, that would come to see me and tell me things about her murder, and of course you know I have a responsibility that if I have somebody who tells me something I have to report it, right?
00:25:14.815 --> 00:25:15.517
Yeah, tells me something.
00:25:15.537 --> 00:25:16.118
I have to report it, right.
00:25:16.118 --> 00:25:18.136
Yeah, like done a few, you know, just to put it out there.
00:25:18.136 --> 00:25:26.009
Not that I felt that it had anything to do with it, but it's still my responsibility to put it out there to make sure that they look at every single avenue.
00:25:26.009 --> 00:25:36.407
And it was so hard not to talk to you about certain things because there were things that were revealed to me that I couldn't discuss with anybody, and so it was interesting.
00:25:36.407 --> 00:25:41.061
But I want to bring something up which is kind of different.
00:25:41.162 --> 00:25:43.348
But you know the banker boxes.
00:25:43.348 --> 00:26:14.419
So they had some banker boxes that they had switched over for the case, and they had a lot of banker boxes and a police officer had burnt those boxes and I received a photo of that banker box being burnt and it had the most amazing outline of a person with their arm up and the investigating officer one of them, I should say had sent it to me and said like I don't know how you feel about this, but isn't this wild?
00:26:14.419 --> 00:26:15.663
And it really was.
00:26:15.663 --> 00:26:19.221
And I understood that you received that picture later.
00:26:20.144 --> 00:26:20.527
I did.
00:26:20.527 --> 00:26:21.088
I did.
00:26:21.088 --> 00:26:31.009
The officer who took the picture came here after it was all said and done and gave me that and I said that was you.
00:26:31.009 --> 00:26:33.298
I've heard about this picture.
00:26:33.298 --> 00:26:35.403
I can't believe that was you.
00:26:35.403 --> 00:26:37.347
And he said it was me.
00:26:37.347 --> 00:26:40.000
It was just a lot easier to destroy them that way.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:45.241
So he brought them home and did that.
00:26:45.241 --> 00:26:47.019
But I just want to show you something.
00:26:47.961 --> 00:26:48.763
Oh, there it is.
00:26:48.763 --> 00:26:49.707
It's on the wall.
00:26:49.707 --> 00:26:53.243
I got it blown up, okay.
00:26:53.243 --> 00:26:59.955
Yeah, it's an amazing picture because it looks like the outline of your sister and it does it does.
00:26:59.955 --> 00:27:08.401
I mean her head, her face, like it's really quite amazing that photo, and when I saw it I had shivers on my shivers, you know what I mean.
00:27:08.942 --> 00:27:09.723
How could you not?
00:27:09.723 --> 00:27:21.397
You know you get people to look at that and most the most common reaction I have is no reaction except a jaw wide open and then instant tears in people's face.
00:27:21.397 --> 00:27:26.075
Yeah, you know the tears that come down and you're like do you see what I see?
00:27:26.395 --> 00:27:28.117
and yeah, everybody sees it.
00:27:28.758 --> 00:27:30.380
Oh, I couldn't believe it.
00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:32.423
I all I said was that was you.
00:27:32.423 --> 00:27:34.684
Yeah, you did that.
00:27:35.205 --> 00:27:36.027
Yeah.
00:27:36.386 --> 00:27:39.250
And he was not a believer at all.
00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:42.381
But you know, and that picture was taken.
00:27:42.381 --> 00:27:50.865
He said he was just documenting you know the process of getting, you know destroying everything, and so he had a few other pictures.
00:27:50.865 --> 00:27:53.396
But you know how a picture's live on your phone?
00:27:53.396 --> 00:27:59.387
Yes, when you play to have that picture go live, nowhere do you see that.
00:27:59.387 --> 00:28:02.801
Yes, and when you let go of it at the end it just jumps to that.
00:28:02.801 --> 00:28:08.605
Yeah, it's just crazy, it's amazing to yeah, just shivers.
00:28:08.605 --> 00:28:16.279
It just gives you shivers to see that and to know but yeah, all I said was you, that was you.
00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:18.463
But yeah, all I said was you, that was you.
00:28:18.463 --> 00:28:21.816
Yeah, but yeah, oh my goodness, you know.
00:28:21.836 --> 00:28:26.064
But I have to say like they were pretty patient and very good.
00:28:26.064 --> 00:28:50.140
I remember, you know, speaking to one of the officers and just you know again, just you know, reiterating that I felt that they were going in the wrong direction and I received such a nice thank you letter, you know, reiterating that I felt that they were going in the wrong direction and I received such a nice thank you letter, and that was the first for me in working with police to receive a thank you letter and encouraging them to, you know, to continue going, and so it was really great.
00:28:50.140 --> 00:28:58.465
But, speaking of which, how has your view on justice and closure evolved over the years, like as a result of all of this that happened to you?
00:28:59.430 --> 00:29:05.136
So the officers, through everything, were all absolutely amazing.
00:29:05.136 --> 00:29:19.363
I can't thank them enough for their kindness and compassion that they showed me and my family that I'll never forget them and all of them.
00:29:19.363 --> 00:29:23.285
You know he was sentenced to 12 years.
00:29:23.285 --> 00:29:27.487
Yes, I feel that was an absolute slap in the face.
00:29:27.487 --> 00:29:30.949
Yes, that was an absolute slap in the face.
00:29:30.949 --> 00:29:33.049
It took a long time.
00:29:33.049 --> 00:29:36.730
I mean, he was arrested December 11th 2018.
00:29:37.771 --> 00:29:41.353
We went to for a bail hearing in February 2019.
00:29:41.353 --> 00:29:52.201
That was a three-day bail hearing, so we had to wait till oh, was it the end of March to see if he was going to get bail or not.
00:29:52.201 --> 00:29:54.526
And that was denied.
00:29:54.526 --> 00:29:55.407
And there was.
00:29:55.407 --> 00:29:55.828
You know what.
00:29:55.828 --> 00:29:59.746
You don't realize the process, how much there is.
00:29:59.746 --> 00:30:03.095
Like this case was more than just okay.
00:30:03.095 --> 00:30:05.161
There was a bail hearing and then there was the trial.
00:30:05.161 --> 00:30:21.708
There was so much more in between Like I believe they had figured it out that it was probably worth about six, another six weeks of full time sitting in court, but broken up in mornings, right, oh, a morning of this, a morning of that and a day of this and the all the pre-trial stuff.
00:30:21.708 --> 00:30:24.523
And you know that was indicted.
00:30:24.523 --> 00:30:28.776
So it was.
00:30:28.776 --> 00:30:29.297
You know, know, we didn't.
00:30:29.297 --> 00:30:33.566
We missed a lot of stuff going through everything when they they wanted to have a change of venue.
00:30:33.566 --> 00:30:39.646
You know, the judge felt he should be able to get a fair trial here in Sudbury, which is okay either way.
00:30:39.787 --> 00:30:49.340
I just you know, it's about the science and the evidence and and to me, there was enough of it to prove that this is the person.
00:30:49.340 --> 00:30:53.104
Because, you know, some people say, oh, I'm happy, someone's paying for it.
00:30:53.104 --> 00:31:09.140
No, you don't want someone to pay, you want the right person, the correct person, the person who did this, the person who is responsible to be the one that pays, not just anybody responsible to be the one that pays, not not just anybody.
00:31:09.140 --> 00:31:10.123
And, and you know, I had second thoughts.
00:31:10.123 --> 00:31:10.523
Well, are you sure?
00:31:10.523 --> 00:31:12.431
And I remember saying are you sure this is the right guy?
00:31:12.431 --> 00:31:16.160
Yes, yes, without a doubt, without a shadow of a doubt, without a shadow of a doubt.
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:24.903
So you know, that being said, there was a lot to go through and some stuff you just go.
00:31:24.903 --> 00:31:28.416
What a waste of time, what an absolute waste of time, taxpayers, money.
00:31:28.416 --> 00:31:30.661
But that's the process.
00:31:32.042 --> 00:31:44.025
And, uh, like I said, you know, after the six weeks of trial, 12 years you know, the judge asked the jury what do you think he should get for a sentence?
00:31:44.025 --> 00:31:48.829
And I believe half of them said the maximum of 25 years.
00:31:48.829 --> 00:31:51.721
Yes, the lowest was 22 years.
00:31:51.721 --> 00:32:00.528
I believe 20 or 22 years, I can't quite remember right now, but 12, that's a slap in the face.
00:32:00.528 --> 00:32:02.480
He's up for parole shortly, you know.
00:32:02.501 --> 00:32:08.676
Yeah, so I mean it doesn't mean he will get it, it's still a life sentence.
00:32:08.676 --> 00:32:21.868
You know this was originally a first degree murder charge and then it was dropped down to second degree murder and, um, that's not fair, because this was indeed first degree.
00:32:21.868 --> 00:32:39.676
The fact that there were two separate attacks that had happened, that he went to the bathroom and washed his hands, so when he came out of the bathroom, it may not have been intent when he won in that store, but when he came out of the bathroom that was definitely, you know, intent to kill her.
00:32:39.676 --> 00:32:51.151
So but you know there's nothing I can do about that and that they actually have the correct person and now he's serving his time.
00:32:52.295 --> 00:32:52.915
Yes.
00:32:52.915 --> 00:32:54.156
And rightfully so.
00:32:54.156 --> 00:33:03.886
So, with all of that being said, what message or hope do you wish to convey to those dealing with similar tragedies?
00:33:03.886 --> 00:33:04.727
Convey?
00:33:04.747 --> 00:33:06.189
to those dealing with similar tragedies Don't give up.
00:33:06.189 --> 00:33:17.077
The police are trying hard, you know they want to solve everything they can.
00:33:17.077 --> 00:33:21.026
Out there, Fortunately, technology is just booming the technology with the science behind everything, you know.
00:33:21.026 --> 00:33:33.317
That's why we are where we, why I got to get through this was who'd have thought a little blood sample would show you exactly what you look like, your color of eyes, color of hair, Like it?
00:33:33.317 --> 00:33:42.606
Just it's crazy, but the science will help, and the police and everybody's doing their hardest to get through all of this.
00:33:42.606 --> 00:33:47.284
And you know as horrible it is to just sit back and wait.
00:33:47.284 --> 00:33:49.367
That's all you can do.
00:33:49.367 --> 00:34:02.644
Yeah, and, and like I said, I, I gave every little detail, I, I, I related to them and as crazy as they thought I was, they, they gave me my dignity and said, okay, we'll check into it.
00:34:02.644 --> 00:34:05.596
But, um, life goes on.
00:34:05.596 --> 00:34:07.923
So you, you on, so you have to move forward.
00:34:08.523 --> 00:34:13.981
Yeah, you do, you do, and at least you can sleep at night knowing that he's behind bars.
00:34:15.898 --> 00:34:32.643
I sleep at night now because getting sleep before in the past, after this happened, the fear if you heard a little crack of something it really, it really messed with me as, as a person who I am, it was.
00:34:32.643 --> 00:34:33.865
It was very difficult.
00:34:33.865 --> 00:34:49.625
You don't trust people, so but I'm proud to say that since the arrest I've taken everything that I've bottled up and I put it towards good and um, you know, raising money for stuff.
00:34:49.625 --> 00:34:57.586
I raised some money for the MS society and, uh, pet save our local shelter here They've they've gotten some money.
00:34:57.586 --> 00:35:01.706
I've raised almost $10,000 for Christ the King church.
00:35:01.706 --> 00:35:11.730
So you know it's uh, I'm just gonna push forward and, you know, do good things with, be a good person.
00:35:11.730 --> 00:35:16.900
I always tell my kids, you know,
if you go to bed tonight and you feel good about your day, then that was good.
00:35:16.900 --> 00:35:18.942
You shouldn't go to bed and feel bad that.
00:35:18.942 --> 00:35:23.902
You know I should have held the door for somebody or always make the right decision.
00:35:24.583 --> 00:35:36.592
Yeah, it's funny because just before our interview I had gone grocery shopping and I saw an honoring Renee sticker on someone's truck window of an old Chevy.
00:35:36.773 --> 00:35:36.954
Yes, I did.
00:35:37.494 --> 00:35:47.626
And for me that was a sign and I thought, oh my God, I can't believe I'm seeing this, because I remember how many you had given out of those stickers.
00:35:48.195 --> 00:35:49.099
There was a lot.
00:35:49.099 --> 00:35:50.862
There was a lot.
00:35:50.862 --> 00:35:52.800
You saw one today.
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:53.824
That's amazing.
00:35:54.396 --> 00:35:59.847
It freaked me right out and by the time I came back out the guy was gone, because I really wanted to take a picture.
00:36:00.476 --> 00:36:01.501
I love when I see those.
00:36:01.501 --> 00:36:12.802
It just kind of, you know, you feel the support from the community and there was a lot of support from the community and you know I'm thankful for that.
00:36:13.364 --> 00:36:13.525
Yeah.
00:36:13.755 --> 00:36:22.983
And I'm thankful the police never gave up and kept pushing forward and even trying out the new technology you know putting through to.
00:36:22.983 --> 00:36:24.668
So it's unbelievable.
00:36:24.875 --> 00:36:56.722
I'm, I'm thankful you, you know it's not going to take back, it's not going to get renee back, but it, um, when you see that it just warms your heart it really does, and you just, I just think, I look at them and I look at the vehicle and I just say, yeah, you know I know how happy they were because they were all celebrating, all the police officers were celebrating, when the arrest was made, and you know it was just such a big relief, I think, for everybody, and it created quite a buzz in the community, but it was a good buzz, like you know.
00:36:56.942 --> 00:36:57.925
It was a good buzz.
00:36:57.925 --> 00:37:01.184
Yeah, it was a good buzz, instead of the buzz that we had before.
00:37:01.184 --> 00:37:14.025
Yeah, everyone was just wanting to resolve this so badly, and so the police did their job and I'm really happy to say that it got the right person and it's just, it's wonderful.
00:37:14.025 --> 00:37:24.059
Kim, I want to thank you so much for putting your heart out there today, because I know it's not easy to talk about, and especially you know your sister.
00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:37.123
She's been gone for such a long time now, but it's funny because I was held up just a few months before that happened and I felt, yeah, and I felt, and I was so how would I say it?
00:37:37.182 --> 00:37:50.322
I was traumatized by it and, and the thing is, I felt that for some reason that brought us together somehow, and so we've known each other for quite a while and I'm so happy to say that we've become friends.
00:37:51.003 --> 00:37:51.465
We have.
00:37:51.465 --> 00:37:53.682
I'm so happy we've become friends yeah.
00:37:53.682 --> 00:37:56.858
And I'm thankful for your encouragement and I'm you know.
00:37:56.858 --> 00:38:00.286
You've been wonderful to me and my family.
00:38:00.766 --> 00:38:01.068
Yes.
00:38:01.416 --> 00:38:02.077
And.
00:38:02.438 --> 00:38:05.641
I love your family, though I still remember that reading I did at your house.
00:38:05.641 --> 00:38:06.041
Remember we did yes.
00:38:06.041 --> 00:38:08.550
And I love your family, though I still remember that reading I did at your house.
00:38:08.590 --> 00:38:09.012
Remember we did.
00:38:09.012 --> 00:38:09.775
Yes, you came here.
00:38:09.775 --> 00:38:14.367
Yes, helped me figure out who was the ghost or whatever I had in my house.
00:38:14.367 --> 00:38:19.585
You smudged my house for me because there was a lot of activity going on in here?
00:38:19.585 --> 00:38:22.400
Yes, there was, and you got it.
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:26.228
I'll never forget the cantaloupe, oh the cantaloupe.
00:38:26.228 --> 00:38:28.014
Oh, the cantaloupe.
00:38:28.014 --> 00:38:29.380
Yeah, the frozen cantaloupe.
00:38:29.380 --> 00:38:31.161
You had no idea what was so funny.
00:38:31.161 --> 00:38:34.222
But and the three hearts, yes.
00:38:34.963 --> 00:38:38.059
Three hearts, oh my God, you can go on, and, on, and on.
00:38:38.682 --> 00:38:38.943
Yeah.
00:38:39.356 --> 00:38:40.340
Thank you so much.
00:38:40.340 --> 00:38:45.206
Like I said, and I'm sure you're going to make a difference for so many people that are going through this tragedy.
00:38:45.206 --> 00:39:01.846
I mean, there are so many unsolved cases out there missing people, all kinds of things and people go through so much trauma and and uncertainty when these things happen and it's reassuring to hear someone else talk about it and they get the strength from that.
00:39:01.846 --> 00:39:04.960
So I know you're going to help so many people just with this interview.
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:06.422
So thank you so much for that.
00:39:06.804 --> 00:39:07.826
Thank you for having me.
00:39:07.826 --> 00:39:08.949
This was great, thank you.
00:39:10.295 --> 00:39:12.782
I want to thank everybody for listening in today.
00:39:12.782 --> 00:39:17.242
I hope you have an absolutely beautiful week ahead and until next time, we'll talk to you again real soon.
00:39:17.242 --> 00:39:18.465
Bye, bye, everyone.
00:39:18.465 --> 00:39:19.956
Thanks for listening in.
00:39:19.956 --> 00:39:22.820
I hope you enjoyed today's Laneway Way to Spirit.
00:39:22.820 --> 00:39:26.606
To learn more about me, visit my website at mediumjaylane.
00:39:26.606 --> 00:39:31.465
com or my socials on Facebook and Instagram.