Transcription complète de Valorie Kondos Field Asks Foster Mobley What the Wise Man Taught Him About Leading

good. 00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:14.079 Fundamentally, each of us have constructed wonderful lives, but many times, based, if you believe in psychology, based on a brokenness in our um upbringing, some connection we make that didn't quite work out well, and we build patterns on top of that. 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:22.319 And it's only later, in times of crisis or times of stress or challenge, do we become aware that these things are really operating for us? 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:24.800 Why do I not want to take a risk? 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:31.199 Is that because the calculus in that moment, gee it's riskier than it's not? 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:39.199 No, most of the time I don't want to take a risk, is because when I was a child, there was something that said, be safe. 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:41.920 You're better if you're safe. 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:44.560 Play back, let others talk. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:52.319 There is some issue in all of us, if you believe Jung and other modern psychologists, um, that we build our lives on top of. 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:54.319 And so that's the one. 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:55.839 It's for me, it's a fear thing. 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:05.839 Share with us one of the parts of the story of the journey with the wise men that helped you on this journey work past that fear, a fear. 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:27.120 I'll tell a story that's near and dear to your heart, uh, because it so directly impacts athletic performance, which is the tale of the storm about noise, and letting noise from the outside, others' opinions, controversy, that stuff get so big that it affects how you behave. 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:31.600 And that's been, you know, quite important. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:38.480 As an entrepreneur, uh, creator of a firm that thankfully endures to this day. 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:46.800 There have been times when I really just wanted to play it down the middle and not be controversial because the noise would get a little bit too big and I'd play it safe. 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:57.439 Interestingly, in 2026, based on our current leadership of FNG leading, they're not playing it down the middle anymore. 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.319 They have declared a lane, it's a bold lane. 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:04.800 We have gone after some things in ways that would have been unthinkable to me. 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.279 And and I'm glad we are. 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:12.480 But it you know, noise gets noise got too big, and then that fear thing kicks up. 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:13.439 Well, what if? 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.000 So is the noise actually a gift? 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:18.879 It sure can be if you treat it that way. 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:23.040 All of these things, even the fear, can be a gift. 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:33.600 Okay, so how many years have you been working with leaders of athletic organizations, of companies, CEOs? 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.959 I started working directly with CEOs in 1984. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.800 I started my practice of working in organizations in 1980. 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:43.600 I started working with athletic leaders in about 2000. 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:45.759 So and when did you write the book? 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:46.959 In 2011. 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:52.639 And did you write the book because you had a lot that you wanted to share? 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:58.879 And did you write the book because you just saw so much nonsense out there with leaders that you said I have to write the book? 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:00.879 You know, it's really the former. 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:05.279 After that long in practice, people would always say, So what's leadership? 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:06.879 And I would quote them to somebody else. 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.519 Gee, Warren Bennis says the following. 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:14.160 Michael Porter says the following, Tom Peters says the following. 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:21.199 And then look at I have very different, who's still a client and very different, and said, What do you believe? 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:33.039 And I went, well, it's hard for me to put in, you know, like I backtracked, and and then I thought about that and went, I gotta know what I believe after all these years. 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:34.639 So I went back and got my doctorate. 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:45.279 And then after that, um, I started playing with these ideas about how do I communicate a deeper level of leadership and a deeper level of self-mastery. 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:49.120 I I call this kind of the ragu theory of leading. 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:51.919 You remember the ragu commercials back in the day? 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:57.039 And there'd be a bottle of spaghetti sauce, and they'd say, basil, it's in there. 00:08:57.279 --> 00:09:00.000 Garlic, it's in there, tomatoes, it's in there. 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.919 And I'm sort of thinking, leadership, it's in there. 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:05.519 Oh, that's really good. 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.320 We know how to engage with people. 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:10.559 We know how to listen. 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:12.480 We know how to be empathetic. 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:14.720 Whether we are or not's a different issue. 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.960 This stepwise episode is proudly sponsored by Mountain Mule. 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:23.519 Our goal is to make sure your experience in Montana is unlike anything else. 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:28.960 At Mountain Mule, we provide private chauffeur service and Yellowstone National Park Tours. 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:37.039 Whether you're traveling to or from Bozeman, have a private event, or want a once-in-a-lifetime tour experience, we'd love to get you there. 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.039 Book at Mountain Mule.com and use code Stepwise. 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.559 Most high performers don't need more ambition or vision. 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:49.360 They need better support

infrastructure and daily practices to hold it. 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:57.519 Wholeness at work offers leaders real tools for meaningful growth, lifelong impact, and sustained performance. 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:04.639 Explore our holistic tools, insights, and practices for working in a way that actually feels like you. 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.639 Visit our wholeness at work.com. 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:20.000 Are you born with it or is it something we are born with the ability to commune with the people around us? 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:21.279 We are born with that. 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:22.480 Look at a baby. 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:30.080 You don't have to teach a baby to be present, you don't have to teach a baby to connect with those around him or her. 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:37.279 Do people who eventually excel at being effective strong leaders? 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.279 Leaders are people of influence. 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:40.080 Yeah. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:47.039 Um, is this because they have worked through the blockages that you talk about in your book? 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:50.240 How do people become those strong leaders? 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:51.840 Because I'm always asked that question. 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:54.399 Are you people born with it or is it something you can learn? 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:55.679 Go do your work. 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:59.039 My answer, I'll say cryptically, is yes. 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.360 They have worked through that stuff. 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:02.720 Here's my situation. 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.639 My children taught me how, taught me more about leadership than anything else. 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:12.320 You know, I was the prototypical male in my career. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.639 I devoted myself to career. 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:18.240 I'd come home and there'd be very little left in the tank for the kids. 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.960 And I'm not proud of this, but I kind of gave cursory attention to family. 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:36.639 And my kids grew up, and they basically taught me how to create family, how to be part of that, how to listen, how to be more present. 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.480 And it happened over a series of stages and stuff like that. 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.960 I had to relearn how to be present when I was stressed. 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.279 I had to relearn how to get myself out of the way. 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:50.480 Which was intentional. 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:52.080 Absolutely intentional. 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:55.840 And so people will say today, like, how do I become a better leader? 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:57.039 And I'll say, Go do your work. 00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:59.279 And they'll go, What's the work? 00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:00.960 What is your work? 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.960 Is it go to therapy? 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:09.360 Big believer, meditate, go for a nature walk, become mindful. 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:19.919 And here's my the thing that I'm figuring out is after seven decades on the planet, the soul thinks at a much slower pace than the brain. 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:25.600 This is where this connection is, which is the lifeblood of leadership. 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:29.039 Leadership isn't about being the smartest and the best decision maker. 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:30.879 We have managers to do that stuff. 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.360 We now have algorithms to do that stuff. 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:38.639 We put in all the factors in and say, Claude, how should I decide? 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:41.679 Well, here's this and here's that, and these are the things like. 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:50.720 Can you become a great leader of yourself if you don't take time to intentionally slow down to pay attention to your soul? 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.120 My personal view is no. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.159 Because then we're always operating. 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:00.720 You know, the the tale of the skipping stones, we're always operating on the surface. 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:04.159 Fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, issue, issue, issue, shoes. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:06.240 Boy, I'm good at solving problems. 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.000 Yeah, but lead me. 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:14.639 Inspire me, connect with me, help me get the best out of myself. 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.000 Boy, that takes a lot of depth to do that. 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.840 So I say the speed of the soul operates differently. 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:29.679 In fact, the next book I want to write after the current book I'm writing is called The Crack That Lets the Light In. 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:36.240 Something that allows that light, that insight to come in, and that's at a different speed. 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.840 You talk about the access points. 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.480 They're a seven that you've identified. 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.240 Could you share what an access point is? 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.240 Yeah, and by the way, don't you love that number? 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:50.799 Oh hello. 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:52.080 Okay. 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.440 Um, there are little seven. 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.600 He's saying that because I led our team to seven national championships. 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:08.240 An access point is it's this morning, Kathy and I got up and walked into Monterey. 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:13.600 And there were a couple of points we stopped and looked at the beautiful ocean. 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.960 That little stop was an access point to us. 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:26.720 We stopped there, we looked around, we considered, and we took a moment, and we were able to see stuff through that that we wouldn't have seen on a path. 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:31.360 Which access points have you identified that leaders have resist the most? 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:33.279 The tale of the empty house. 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:34.639 Do you recall that one?

00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:42.080 That is where the two hikers come on this house and it's empty, and there's some things around, and they make up stuff about it. 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.360 Well, that's human nature to make up stuff about things. 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:56.879 And leaders in pressure positions will get scant data and be really good at making up stuff, create a narrative, and decide on it and act on it. 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:05.600 Well, that notion of judgment versus observation, which is what the tale of the empty house is about, is hard for most of us. 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.200 We hear a thing or two, and the body, the mind thinks in a gestop, a pattern. 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.039 So we fill in the blanks. 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:21.600 That's a real hard one for leaders who work at this kind of pace and these kind of pressures to stop and go, I notice you're wearing a jean jacket. 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.000 We're not making up stuff about it. 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:31.519 I remember clearly one of the things that I learned from you was what people don't know about you, they will make up. 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:32.159 Oh yeah. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.919 And I remember that just like I dug my heels in. 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:39.919 I don't want anybody making my truth up. 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:48.320 And then you also just touched on something Benjamin, I've recently been spoken speaking about is being able to observe without judging. 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:48.720 Yeah. 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:50.320 And it is that possible. 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:51.840 Yeah, but it takes training. 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.559 I find it linearly possible. 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:56.639 Look, we're taught that way. 00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:59.519 We come up to an intersection and there's a yellow light. 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:00.960 What's gonna happen next? 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:02.879 It's gonna be a red light. 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.159 We're taught that certain patterns exist. 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:12.240 Is it possible to observe without judgment? 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:13.200 Yes. 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.799 It takes grace, our favorite word. 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:32.960 It takes patience, it takes courage on the part of the observer to not fill in the blanks, to not race forward and say, I notice you've got that, without any positive, negative meaning attached to it. 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.399 There's some training I did back in the early 2000s. 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:40.799 The expression in that training was we are meaning-making machines. 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.600 We get some scant data and we make up stuff about it. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.600 That's how we have survived. 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:50.080 And it's helpful to be able to create patterns until it's not. 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:54.720 And it's not when we fill in blanks as opposed to asking. 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.840 There's a continuum I often talk about. 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:00.399 You've heard me do this a number of number of times. 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:06.079 The continuum looks like this on one side is advocacy, telling. 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:10.079 The other side of that continuum is inquiry, asking. 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:18.880 And most leaders, especially younger ones, think that the mastery in leading is telling and being right all the time. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.240 The mastery to me comes in the asking part. 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:23.519 Why are you laughing? 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.400 And I started being asked to do workshops and coaching individuals. 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:34.799 Yeah. 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:36.160 Like executive coaching. 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:36.640 Oh, yeah. 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:43.599 And you're this is only what people that have tremendous amount of trust with each other can say to each other. 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.119 Because I was like, I mean, you're you're an executive coach. 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.839 You're like you're working all over the world. 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.000 This is I think fosters doing. 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.519 Do you remember what you said? 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:54.880 Yeah. 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:56.160 What did you say? 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.000 I said, probably not for you, because you're better at telling than asking. 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:00.319 Yeah. 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.200 And I remember I wasn't offended by that at all. 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:04.000 No, no, no. 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.359 But I I kind of let it just go, he has something he's talking about. 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:08.720 I can ask questions. 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.880 I'm gonna Yeah. 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:30.480 But it was really great because after that, when I was speaking with anybody working with student athletes, teaching, whatever I'm doing, I have your voice in my head going, okay, stop, stop telling that person what they should do and formulate a question that's gonna help them figure it out. 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:34.720 Which is interesting because that's how I learned how to coach. 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.359 Because as we know, I thought that's right. 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:39.839 I wasn't an athlete, I wasn't a gymnast, I was a dancer. 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.000 How did I learn how to coach gymnastics? 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:43.279 And people ask me that all the time. 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:47.599 I said, because I I had to ask a hundred questions a day. 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:53.920 But once I became a leader, yeah, I felt I had the answers. 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.839 You saw the patterns, you could make stuff up, and you were right most of the time. 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:00.240 It's really interesting. 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.759 They all kinds of different expressions are used for this. 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.440 It's push versus pull. 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.160 You know,

some people think great leading is pushing people to great results. 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.200 Some think, as I do, it's the other side. 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:19.839 It's pulling, meaning set a vision, ask a question, draw their interest in, get them fired up. 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:25.039 Boy, fired up direct report is way more important than a compliant one. 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.559 Sure, boss, I'll do whatever you tell me to do. 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.079 It takes too long to fire somebody up these days. 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.599 When you finished your book, yeah, and you were all through with it. 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:44.559 Yeah, what was the overwhelming thing that the wise man taught you that you didn't know about yourself when you started the book? 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:46.640 My voice mattered. 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:54.400 What I thought mattered, what I thought had the ability to contribute to others. 00:19:54.799 --> 00:20:03.920 I didn't have to fall back on the teachings of the giants on whom on whose shoulders I stood, that I had a voice. 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.720 And I was proud of that voice. 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.599 Because that was really my first declaration into the Lord. 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:17.839 Like, you know, I've done a lot of plant work, I'd probably done 30 years of plant work by then, and um a lot of a lot of victories and a lot of small victories and stuff. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:22.720 I put that out in the world and went, Yep, this is this is me. 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:29.759 And even the title, being willing to do something as controversial as that, leadership. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:31.119 Who does that? 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.440 Um, I actually had one of our largest clients at the time. 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:41.279 Uh, they were in the Bible belt and they refused to buy my book because they thought the title was profane. 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:47.599 When that happened, that moment of clarity says, I'm gonna name the book that. 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:53.279 That was another kind of um arrow in my quiver for self-esteem. 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:55.759 Well, yep, I'm gonna do that. 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.720 And my voice is worth something, and that's what I got on. 00:20:58.880 --> 00:20:59.440 Wonderful. 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.039 I'm so glad you wrote the book. 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:01.680 Well, thank you. 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:02.000 Yeah. 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:06.240 So all the student athletes that you've worked with with us, at least he like loved the book. 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:06.799 Excellent. 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:07.759 So thank you very much. 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.880 My pleasure. 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:09.359 Thank you. 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:10.240 Thank you for today. 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:29.359 If this conversation was worth your time, and I hope it was, do one thing for me before you close the app. 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.359 Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.319 It's how people like you help people like me find this show. 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:42.880 And if what we talked about today sparks something in you, there's a book called Leadership: Rethinking the True Path to Great Leading. 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.720 Yes, that's the real title that goes deeper into this territory. 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:50.000 It's on my website, fostermobley.com. 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:57.039 And then sign up for our email list to be notified when my next book, Honoring, goes into pre-sale in 2027. 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:01.519 And if there's one person in your life who needed to hear this episode, send it to them. 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:05.200 Not because we need the numbers, because they need the conversation. 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:10.079 Set the table, invite cool people, magic happens. 00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:11.680 I'm Foster Mobley. 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.880 As always, friends, step wise. 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:20.880 Our music for season three is composed and performed by Montana musical legend Philip Auburgh. 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:22.880 Courtesy of Sweetgrass Music. 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:28.640 Phil's recent passing was felt by many, including those of us associated with this podcast. 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:34.400 We thank Patty Auburgh and Sweetgrass Music for access to this beautiful piece. 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.039 Thank you for listening to Stepwise. 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:43.599 Stepwise is produced, edited, and promoted by Zedist with support from Amber Gillard Consulting. 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:51.599 Find more episodes and resources at fostermobli.com and follow Foster on social media at Fostermobley. 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.680 We'll see you next time.